Can a soul be captured?

[Tony]

Here we go again!

What is at the bottom of the rabbit hole? Just another dream! If you stuff your head with things you do not understand, this doesn't leave room for free will and intelligence.

From http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51640-Camelot-disclosure-from-Kerry:

“10. SOUL RETRIEVAL AND TRANSFERENCE :Taking souls from bodies and putting them into stasis and then into new bodies to serve the 'machine' of the secret state. Clones, androids etc. using Grey technology.”

This clearly shows the lack of understanding of the difference between consciousness and true being.

There are electrical impulses in the brain, these are created by the mind = consciousness via the senses. This is your 'normal' mechanical human being. Ordinary human beings who react to everything around them. They either accept everything around them or reject everything around them. They are easily led!

This brings us to the question of a soul or true being. This is not a thing, it has no dimensions, it cannot even be said to 'exist' as we normally think of things...so it cannot be effected by anything. It is pure awareness.

What can be controlled is the mind/consciousness, which is just a set of ideas...a mind set! Information goes in...and gets stuck there.
This is how people are controlled.

Come on people, stop being so easily led.




Tony

===

[ Mod-edit: As announced here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51640-Camelot-disclosure-from-Kerry&p=579095&viewfull=1#post579095), the following thread began life as posts on the Camelot disclosure from Kerry (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51640-Camelot-disclosure-from-Kerry) thread. - Paul. ]

[Tony]

Someone is getting you to program yourself!

Waking up is being free and going beyond concepts and ideas......especially someone else's.

[Bill Ryan]

This is not a thing, it has no dimensions, it cannot even be said to 'exist' as we normally think of things...

This is true.


so it cannot be effected by anything. It is pure awareness.This is not true. Souls can be affected by all kinds of things, specifically including spiritual implants. Some terrible things have happened to some souls over the trillennia. Souls can be captured under certain circumstances, and enslaved in every which way.

Tony, it's extremely dangerous to state otherwise. It's like saying to your children that they can go out and play on the street and do anything they like and no harm will ever come to them. This is not true either.

I know what you're trying to say, but it's irresponsible to state it this way. At the metaphysically ultimately highest level, you are (sort of) correct, depending on your definitions: but here we all are buried deep in this level of reality, and potential harm is all around. That's how things got this bad. You surely know that.

The error is to mistake fundamentally different levels of existence and mix them all up. You do that frequently, and it's irritating -- and grossly misleading and confusing to people who sincerely want to learn how things really are. See the first few minutes of my Freedom Central interview here.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVKjAumpjjk
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AVKjAumpjjk


Come on people, stop being so easily led.You are misleading people here. Kerry's summary was a good one. The only major point I would add is that our DNA is being grossly messed with, and there are concerted efforts to alter the human genome to ends that are not totally clear. The entire human race is under siege.

:focus:

[Christine]

Here we go again!

This brings us to the question of a soul or true being. This is not a thing, it has no dimensions, it cannot even be said to 'exist' as we normally think of things...so it cannot be effected by anything. It is pure awareness.

What can be controlled is the mind/consciousness, which is just a set of ideas...a mind set! Information goes in...and gets stuck there.

This is how people are controlled.

Come on people, stop being so easily led.

Tony

Tony,

I guess you have never met up with a spiritual being that was captured and held prisoner for millenniums of time. It is a tortured existence being held in a static state unable to move/ express but with consciousness intact.

My question to you is - is this "awareness" being affected?

Would you like to know how this is done? Have you ever deeply explored these possibilities?

You can not say that this spirit is being tricked by the mind (the most devious of our senses!) when the brain center, neural transmitters are no longer present. Some thing actually manipulated this plane of existence.

Why?

Your words border on platitudes - where is the reality behind them?

Christine

Kerry's work and blog help people to understand, raise their awareness to the reality of a devious manipulation that is indeed going on. One step on the road to expanded awareness.

[The Truth Is In There]

if they didn't do all these things we'd have nothing to talk about. no, seriously, i agree with tony. ultimately no harm can come of all this. it's a learning experience for souls who incarnate as humans. i'm 100% convinced that, seen from a higher self perspective, nothing can ever happen to souls against their will.

to see things more narrowminded and say something like "what they do may ultimately be harmful to souls that are currently in human bodies" would reject the ultimate truth of creation - that all is one, that these beings are merely other aspects of ourselves and through their actions offer us the means to grow spiritually. growing up and learning is not always easy and the biggest leaps are made through overcoming opposition, adversity and discomfort.

i believe that the reason why so many souls are here on earth right now is that never in "known" human history has it been so easy to grow spiritually at such a high rate. it's a wonderful opportunity and many are wasting it by living in denial or trying to fight these growth facilitators, instead of changing their mindset to one of acceptance and, ultimately, the "loving of one's enemies", as cheesy as that sounds.

[Brodie75]

Here we go again!

What is at the bottom of the rabbit hole? Just another dream! If you stuff your head with things you do not understand, this doesn't leave room for free will and intelligence.

“10. SOUL RETRIEVAL AND TRANSFERENCE :Taking souls from bodies and putting them into stasis and then into new bodies to serve the 'machine' of the secret state. Clones, androids etc. using Grey technology.”

This clearly shows the lack of understanding of the difference between consciousness and true being.

There are electrical impulses in the brain, these are created by the mind = consciousness via the senses. This is your 'normal' mechanical human being. Ordinary human beings who react to everything around them. They either accept everything around them or reject everything around them. They are easily led!

This brings us to the question of a soul or true being. This is not a thing, it has no dimensions, it cannot even be said to 'exist' as we normally think of things...so it cannot be effected by anything. It is pure awareness.

What can be controlled is the mind/consciousness, which is just a set of ideas...a mind set! Information goes in...and gets stuck there.
This is how people are controlled.

Come on people, stop being so easily led.






Tony

I totally agree with you. Our soul is outside of time and space. It is the all and everything.
This physical place with in which we currently reside, (in an illusury way)has nothing to do

with our soul and everything to do with our mind. Which can create any illussion we wish to experience.
Nothing can be taken or done to us that we haven't chosen on some level that we at the physical

maynot understand or remember or even beleive. Yuo may imagine an existence in which SOULS can be
taken or messed with but that's all it will be, imaginary

[Tony]

This is not a thing, it has no dimensions, it cannot even be said to 'exist' as we normally think of things...

This is true.


so it cannot be effected by anything. It is pure awareness.This is not true. Souls can be affected by all kinds of things, specifically including spiritual implants. Some terrible things have happened to some souls over the trillennia. Souls can be captured under certain circumstances, and enslaved in every which way.

Tony, it's extremely dangerous to state otherwise. It's like saying to your children that they can go out and play on the street and do anything they like and no harm will ever come to them. This is not true either.

I know what you're trying to say, but it's irresponsible to state it this way. At the metaphysically ultimately highest level, you are (sort of) correct, depending on your definitions: but here we all are buried deep in this level of reality, and potential harm is all around. That's how things got this bad. You surely know that.

The error is to mistake fundamentally different levels of existence and mix them all up. You do that frequently, and it's irritating -- and grossly misleading and confusing to people who sincerely want to learn how things really are. See the first few minutes of my Freedom Central interview here.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVKjAumpjjk
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AVKjAumpjjk


Come on people, stop being so easily led.You are misleading people here. Kerry's summary was a good one. The only major point I would add is that our DNA is being grossly messed with, and there are concerted efforts to alter the human genome to ends that are not totally clear. The entire human race is under siege.

:focus:



If one gets caught up in the physical world, then it is exactly that...caught up!
If we keep fearing there will be no end to it.

It is all about consciousness, and how it can be misdirected.
If we believe a dream to be real, we will appear to suffer.

Constantly talking of DNA is constantly talking our bodies.
We are not our bodies.

My writing is totally logical, and may be proven by personal experience,
at any moment. If we stick to personal investigation, we will know we
are on 'our' path.

Everyone has a choice, into what they want to pursue,
they will make their own minds up.

If we merely react at things we do not like, we can be
easily manipulated. If we react with inner space, we
have lost control.




All the best,
Tony

[Tony]

Here we go again!

This brings us to the question of a soul or true being. This is not a thing, it has no dimensions, it cannot even be said to 'exist' as we normally think of things...so it cannot be effected by anything. It is pure awareness.

What can be controlled is the mind/consciousness, which is just a set of ideas...a mind set! Information goes in...and gets stuck there.

This is how people are controlled.

Come on people, stop being so easily led.

Tony

Tony,

I guess you have never met up with a spiritual being that was captured and held prisoner for millenniums of time. It is a tortured existence being held in a static state unable to move/ express but with consciousness intact.

My question to you is - is this "awareness" being affected?

Would you like to know how this is done? Have you ever deeply explored these possibilities?

You can not say that this spirit is being tricked by the mind (the most devious of our senses!) when the brain center, neural transmitters are no longer present. Some thing actually manipulated this plane of existence.

Why?

Your words border on platitudes - where is the reality behind them?

Christine

Kerry's work and blog help people to understand, raise their awareness to the reality of a devious manipulation that is indeed going on. One step on the road to expanded awareness.



Dear Christine,

If one believes that 'essence' can tortured or captured, then that is up to that individual. For me it makes no sense whatsoever. A spiritual being...as we all are, can make mistaken choices...we do this all the time! That is why we get caught up in 'things' going on in this world...and after.

Hmm platitudes? Raising one's awareness is still being caught in a relative reality. The reality is the awareness itself.

There is nothing more than Pure Awareness. This is not a platitude, it is absolutely true, but it is only known by experience. True we still live in a relative world and have to respect it...and care for the body. But we do not have to wrap ourselves up in fear.

This is very subtle business, and it goes beyond black ops.




All the best,
Tony

[Tony]

We always need balance.

Science and spirituality go well together = Open mind + Open Heart.

[Tarka the Duck]

Souls can be affected by all kinds of things, specifically including spiritual implants. Some terrible things have happened to some souls over the trillennia. Souls can be captured under certain circumstances, and enslaved in every which way.


Hello Bill

I know nothing about this. Could you please elaborate?
Are you saying here that you believe that the "soul" is an entity? As something that lives on after death? As eternal?

For those who do not consider the "soul" to be an entity, do you believe that their "souls" can still be "captured"?

What are these "spiritual implants"? Am I right in assuming you're speaking metaphorically?

Kathie

PS and I find what Tony writes irritating too...;)

[Tony]

We can always be refined.

If we have a view of 'life' stick with it,
it can always be refined.
If someone comes up with a better view,
and can show it,
the view has been refined.

Information is just words.
Knowledge is experience.
Wisdom is knowing.
Love is Love,
it can always be refined.

[The Royal Wizard]

I think Bill is right here, souls can be trapped, after all thats what we are here on earth; trapped. DNA is IMO not just physichs, DNA is spiritual computer programming, on earth manifesting as a body. The Matrix is not isolated to third density, it also includes the fourth density, a "place" where we have our light bodys, just a less dense version of our physichal body. This fourth density part of the Matrix is where many so called psychichs and channelers get their information. They think they see beyond the veil into the place where souls are free, but they are mistaken. All this control and manipulation Kerry (and many others) speak about includes, and many times, originates from the fourth density. These are clever guys; we die,, see the light, feel the love, and are in that regard very easily controlled, manipulated and once again incarnated into third density. If we want to leave the Matrix, which we can any chosen time, we need to access the fifth density, which is a density more in tune with our original essence. The trouble with this is that reaching our loved ones from the fifth density is almost impossible. Thats why we stay. As they say in the air force: never leave your wingmate. In this process we can easily be trapped; just in the way it is explained by Bill.

BTW there are many reasons why there are so many people here on earth these days; not all of them are true souls, and one soul can inhabit many bodies. And many are nothing more than generated computer programmes, just as in the movie; look out for the woman in red ;-)

all the best

TRW

[Tarka the Duck]

@ Royal Wizard

after all thats what we are here on earth; trapped.

How interesting! I see it from an opposite viewpoint...that we have an amazing opportunity in being born here on earth. I am unspeakably grateful for this incarnation :whoo:

Kathie

[Kindred]

I'm with pie'n'al... we are trapped ONLY by what we believe...

In Unity, Peace and Love

[Tony]

Show me a tortured soul, and I'll show you a tortured mind.


One who used to be a tortured soul, then I found it was my mind,
Tony

[Tony]

Someone just sent me this PM.

Question.

Do you believe in a "God/Creator" personal or impersonal?
If yes, then do you think God is affected by or could be imprisoned by any entity form or formless?

If God is One without a second then it stands to reason, that you in your True nature as One without a second-- undivided can not be imprisoned/altered/affected.

[humanalien]

Souls can be affected by all kinds of things, specifically including spiritual implants. Some terrible things have happened to some souls over the trillennia. Souls can be captured under certain circumstances, and enslaved in every which way.


Hello Bill

I know nothing about this. Could you please elaborate?
Are you saying here that you believe that the "soul" is an entity? As something that lives on after death? As eternal?

For those who do not consider the "soul" to be an entity, do you believe that their "souls" can still be "captured"?

What are these "spiritual implants"? Am I right in assuming you're speaking metaphorically?

Kathie

PS and I find what Tony writes irritating too...;)

What bill and Tarka says.

I used to think that the mind was a very power thing but i have
learned differently now.

Our mind / soul is something that can be controlled very easily
through hypnosis and or drugs or even flashes of light. Our minds
or thoughts can be controlled through simple ads on tv.

I won't say that our minds or consciousness have no power at all
because i haven't seen any proof of that but at the same time, i
haven't seen any proof that it does, either.

If our consciousness is so powerful, why don't we see proof of this
from every day people?

Having a powerful consciousness, is a man made concept and we all
know man is full of errors.

Tarka:

I don't know if this is the same thing that you are referring to when
you ask bill about spiritual implants but wouldn't people like Duncan
O'finioan be considered as having this implant?

Him and people like him are controlled by our government, through
radio waves and key words and other means, to go out and do missions
for the government and when they snap out of it, they have no remembrance
of what they had done. Duncan said that he had to get an MRI on his head
one day and something inside his head fried from the very powerful radio
waves that the MRI uses and every since then, he hasn't been under
government control.

Like i said, i don't know if this is the same thing but i thought i would
throw it out there. I'm sure bill or someone will correct me, if i'm wrong.

[Kindred]

I strongly feel that the information presented in the OP, while fairly informative in the general sense in that it outlines the current constructs of our present dilemma here on planet Earth, is, when it suggests that these ‘monsters’ have created the technical means to ‘imprison’ a soul, is just so much “horse feathers”, and does Not take into account the Timeless Nature of the Soul.

To support such a contention, I offer this excerpt from “Seth Speaks – the Eternal Validity of the Soul” It validates all that Tony (pie’n’al) has stated.

From chapter 17; Probabilities, the Nature of Good and Evil, and Religious Symbolism

“…the soul stands at the center of itself, exploring, extending its capacities in all directions at once, involved in issues of creativity, each one highly legitimate. The probable system of reality opens up the nature of the soul to you. It should change current religion’s ideas considerably. For this reason, the nature of good and evil is a highly important point.

On the one hand, quite simply, and in a way that you cannot presently understand, evil does not exist. However, you are obviously confronted with what seem to be quite evil effects. Now, it has been said often that there is a god, so there must be a devil – or if there is good, there must be evil. This is like saying that because an apple has a top, it must have a bottom – but without any understanding of the fact that both are a portion of the apple.

We go back to our fundamentals; You create reality through your feelings, thoughts, and mental actions. Some of these are physically materialized; others are actualized in probable systems. You are presented with an endless series of choices, it seems, at any point, some more or less favorable than others.

You must understand that each mental act is a reality for which you are responsible. That is what you are in this particular system of reality for. As long as you believe in a devil, for example, you will create one that is real enough for you, and for the others who continue to create him.

Because of the energy he is given by others, he will have a certain consciousness of his own, but such a mock devil has no power or reality to those who do not believe in his existence, and who do not give him energy through their belief. He is, in other words, a superlative hallucination. As mentioned earlier, those who believe in a hell and assign themselves to it through their belief can indeed experience one, but certainly in nothing like eternal terms. No soul is forever ignorant.

Now, those who have such beliefs actually lack a necessary deep trust in the nature of consciousness, of the soul, and of All That Is. They concentrate upon not what they think of as the power of good, but fearfully upon what they think of as the power of evil.

The hallucination is created, therefore, out of fear and of restriction. The devil idea is merely the mass projection of certain fears – mass in that it is produced by many people, but also limited in that there have always been those who rejected this principle.”

End excerpt

Now, relative to the creation of technology to ‘imprison’ a soul… how long do you think such a machine will last, regardless of its nature? Moreover, how long will such a corrupt ‘civilization’ last to maintain such technology? I would suggest that the soul will outlast Any technology or it's civilization, and thus will be ‘free to go’ upon disintegration of said ‘civilization’ (or planet, whichever comes first). Thus, it can be seen that the creation of such technology is something of a fruitless effort, for the Soul is Eternal…
ALL physicality is Temporary.

Now, it has been described in Thiaoouba Prophesy, that there does exist around each celestial body, an ‘alternate timeless dimension’, that, on occasion, a hapless soul, human or otherwise, may ‘fall into’. Note however, that these ‘souls’ are in physical form… Not exclusively as a soul. In fact, it is pointed out that should this physical entity ‘die’ while in this ‘dimension’, then the soul is released from this alternate dimension, to carry on in it’s evolution. Even if this entity does not die during the existence of this celestial body, Eventually, Even this Celestial Body will cease to exist, and the soul, Again, is ‘free to go’.

So, in the end, all this talk of ‘capturing souls’ is simply Fear Porn – do not worry about it. In ignoring this, you do Not give it power over yourselves.

In Unity, Peace and Love

[Whiskey_Mystic]

I guess you have never met up with a spiritual being that was captured and held prisoner for millenniums of time. It is a tortured existence being held in a static state unable to move/ express but with consciousness intact.

There are even beings here on Avalon that were once very different, but were long ago neutered, spiritually crippled, and stuffed into a jar. After many lifetimes spent locked in madness in the human experience, they are just now breaking out of that bondage.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

If God is One without a second then it stands to reason, that you in your True nature as One without a second-- undivided can not be imprisoned/altered/affected.

But we ARE divided. Here in the space-time we are separated from God by O/our own choice and will in order to experience ourself. Or something. But in any case, I think it is evident that we are separate from God even as our true nature is that we ARE God. Otherwise, I would never feel pain, struggle for money, or have desires. Even if the only thing separating us from God is our own self-realization, we are still separate.

[Tony]

The universe has two influences in it - enlightened and unenlightened. To know this we only have to be aware of our own minds at any moment, and ask the question, "Do "I" have a personal involvement or do 'i' have a personal involvement?"

"I" being an ego, which is our consciousness clinging to it's ideas result = uncontrolled emotions.
'i' being a mere i, just enough to function an communicate, result = emotions controlled.

Negative emotions attract negativity - the unenlightened.
Positive empathy attracts positivity - the enlightened.

Our creation ia always in our hands. Does this make sense:

Two pyramids - deception and perception.

The pyramid of deception deals with the past and future of people, places, events, and with not knowing.
The pyramid of perception deals with now, mind, awareness, purity, and knowing.

When the pyramid of deception is uncovered, it reveals more deception.
When the pyramid of perception is uncovered, it reveals more perception.

The pyramid of deception makes everything complex.
The pyramid of perception makes everything simple.

The pyramid of deception is controlled by psychologist magicians.
The pyramid of perception is controlled by you.

The pyramid of deception has no empathy.
The pyramid of perception has only empathy.

If you know you are in the pyramid of deception, then you are in the pyramid of perception.
If you think you are in the pyramid of perception, then you are in the pyramid of deception.

If you do not know which pyramid you are in, then by default, it will be the pyramid of deception.

Tricky isn't it?!

We probably constantly switch between the two pyramids.

All we have to do is be aware.

Inner awareness changes consciousness (the deception pyramid) into essence (the perception pyramid)
Consciousness can be infiltrate and misdirected, as it is built on concepts.
Essence cannot be infiltrated because there is no thing there: just pure awareness. And love.






No outside force can disturb true happiness/love, it is our very essence.
It's a cliche, but true, you only have to look.

There is no witch craft save the one you believe in.





Tony

[gripreaper]

A distinction needs to be made. Pure light, without any fractals, is the I AM presence, that which is one with all that is. It cannot be manipulated. Yet, once you descend and become part of the rainbow bridge, a fractal of light, these frequencies are open to manipulation.

Any part, when separate from the whole, is subject to the effects of the other parts, oscillating within the electromagnetic spectrum of all light. Your choice is whether you allow such manipulation, by having the stronger charge in the oscillation, or you succumb to the energies you are being bombarded with.

Energy not only is the amount, but the focus, inertia, emanation, and attraction. Lets be clear about this.

[Ba-ba-Ra]

Here we go again!

What is at the bottom of the rabbit hole? Just another dream! If you stuff your head with things you do not understand, this doesn't leave room for free will and intelligence.

“10. SOUL RETRIEVAL AND TRANSFERENCE :Taking souls from bodies and putting them into stasis and then into new bodies to serve the 'machine' of the secret state. Clones, androids etc. using Grey technology.”

This clearly shows the lack of understanding of the difference between consciousness and true being.

There are electrical impulses in the brain, these are created by the mind = consciousness via the senses. This is your 'normal' mechanical human being. Ordinary human beings who react to everything around them. They either accept everything around them or reject everything around them. They are easily led!

This brings us to the question of a soul or true being. This is not a thing, it has no dimensions, it cannot even be said to 'exist' as we normally think of things...so it cannot be effected by anything. It is pure awareness.

What can be controlled is the mind/consciousness, which is just a set of ideas...a mind set! Information goes in...and gets stuck there.
This is how people are controlled.

Come on people, stop being so easily led.


Tony

Yes, here we go again - while Tony, you seem to believe you have the Truth, many of us are still trying to find, or define our Truths and we do it by listening, researching, meditating and discussing. If this is bothersome to you, you can choose not to participate.

Kerry is good at connecting the dots. Some of us can read this material and not go into fear or focus on the fear. I see it as a good template of the history of how we got to this place, which for me helps me to understand how to get out of this place we find ourselves in the 3D world. Each must follow their own path to self-realization. If this is not your path, no need to harshly judge others.

[ThePythonicCow]

This is why the wise sage knows to notice an alien invasion with the same amount of alarm that he notices that he is almost out of milk. It's ok to notice it. Just don't feed it energy.

It's OK to feed it an appropriate level of energy ... to go out later in the day to get some more milk, or to quickly step aside from an incoming alien fired lightning bolt (or whatever sort of weapon they have :).)

We live at multiple physical and spiritual levels at once. We are responsible for being aware in as many of these levels as we can and for living as fully as we can in each of these levels.

The chess master should not get so wrapped up in his game that he neglects to eat, or he'll starve to death ... and he can't play a good game of chess that way. But if he's frequently fussing over his grocery shopping list in his mind while deciding his next chess move, he won't do well at chess either.

These are not an Either-Or choices. Those (such as pie'n'eal, if I understand his words, and I might well not) who would proclaim that it is awareness only, and who would castigate us for also continuing to participate (as researchers, healers, fighters, ...) in the secular world of high crimes and misdemeanors are doing us a grave disservice. They present yet another (there are so many) false dichotomy. They distract us, as has happened on this thread, from the useful work that we can do here, researching, analyzing, sharing, and supporting each other in this secular world, amongst others.

The energetic insertion of false dichotomies into productive threads concerns me, both as a member, and especially as a moderator. Such dissipates some of the vital and valuable energy of this forum and its members.

P.S. -- I didn't notice until after writing the above that Bill had split the Camelot disclosure from Kerry (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51640-Camelot-disclosure-from-Kerry&p=579095&viewfull=1#post579095) thread. Good. I was considering the same split myself. :).

[Maunagarjana]

It's all about levels of being, and what levels you're talking about. I used to think more like Tony, but after a lot of research into metaphysical stuff that the Buddha didn't get much involved with, I tend to see that a lot of what I would call "buddhist dogma" about the soul really only applies to the highest levels, as Bill pointed out. And that's fine. All the different wisdom traditions have important pieces of the puzzle, imho. Buddhism has made a lot of fine contributions to these sorts of conversations in getting people to not fixate just on the illusions of the lower levels. The soul or atman is multidimensional (for lack of a better word), and as you go up the levels, it becomes less and less conditioned and more and more integrated into....whatever you want to call it. The Source, Brahman, Dharmakaya, the Isness, whatever. It's just words.

[greybeard]

If you read spiritual geniuses like Ramana Maharshi, Nasargadatta --- -- Study "A course in Miracles"
if you spend just a little time with the recent non-duality teachers if you spend some time listening to Eckhart Tolle, Adyashanti, you will find a uniformity.

They are saying that you--the Self- existed before universes were formed and will exist after their dissolution-- In your essence you are eternal you are the Absolute you are Brahman. God you are.
That is their direct experience, that is their state, their awareness.
If you can believe this possible then you will find that it is possible to believe there is only One Soul.
The enlightened can truthfully say " I am the totality all of it"
The Holographic Universe is now being spoken of and given some credibility.

Nasargadatta said--- find out where you were before you were born.
Ramana---Self enquiry is famous--Find the answer to the question "Who am I?"

One without a second has no enemies.
You in duality may well have seeming (enemies)to forgive and others to love.
"Love others as yourself "Jesus said--that is because they are yourself.
The Father and I are One--- so are you, One with the Father.
Not knowing this is the illusion--ignorance.
Maya is illusion the cosmic dance.
Non-duality--unity consciousness--Christ Consciousness, Enlightenment, goes beyond illusion.

[truthseekerdan]

Hello All,

Just passing by, and noticed this thread...
My question to everybody here is: Does the 'soul' really exist or is just another human mind concept? Remember -- everything is One Consciousness...

Much Love

[Maunagarjana]

If you read spiritual geniuses like Ramana Maharshi, Nasargadatta --- -- Study "A course in Miracles"
if you spend just a little time with the recent non-duality teachers if you spend some time listening to Eckhart Tolle, Adyashanti, you will find a uniformity.

They are saying that you--the Self- existed before universes were formed and will exist after their dissolution-- In your essence you are eternal you are the Absolute you are Brahman. God you are.
That is their direct experience, that is their state, their awareness.
If you can believe this possible then you will find that it is possible to believe there is only One Soul.
The enlightened can truthfully say " I am the totality all of it"
The Holographic Universe is now being spoken of and given some credibility.

Nasargadatta said--- find out where you were before you were born.
Ramana---Self enquiry is famous--Find the answer to the question "Who am I?"

One without a second has no enemies.
You in duality may well have seeming (enemies)to forgive and others to love.
"Love others as yourself "Jesus said--that is because they are yourself.
The Father and I are One--- so are you, One with the Father.
Not knowing this is the illusion--ignorance.
Maya is illusion the cosmic dance.
Non-duality--unity consciousness--Christ Consciousness, Enlightenment, goes beyond illusion.

True, but that being so does not negate the experience of the lower levels. To borrow a phrase from Ken Wilber, the higher levels transcend but do not negate the lower ones. The All includes all. To focus only on the absolute and dismiss the experience of the relative leads people to missing some important things about this experience we are having now in this form of life, imho.

All of the levels are real (as real illusions) and have consequences in their own way. But it's just that they are not the whole picture. The physical body itself is an illusion, being temporary and not independently existing, but does that mean we should be unconcerned with the physical body being mistreated and imprisoned?

[greybeard]

If you read spiritual geniuses like Ramana Maharshi, Nasargadatta --- -- Study "A course in Miracles"
if you spend just a little time with the recent non-duality teachers if you spend some time listening to Eckhart Tolle, Adyashanti, you will find a uniformity.

They are saying that you--the Self- existed before universes were formed and will exist after their dissolution-- In your essence you are eternal you are the Absolute you are Brahman. God you are.
That is their direct experience, that is their state, their awareness.
If you can believe this possible then you will find that it is possible to believe there is only One Soul.
The enlightened can truthfully say " I am the totality all of it"
The Holographic Universe is now being spoken of and given some credibility.

Nasargadatta said--- find out where you were before you were born.
Ramana---Self enquiry is famous--Find the answer to the question "Who am I?"

One without a second has no enemies.
You in duality may well have seeming (enemies)to forgive and others to love.
"Love others as yourself "Jesus said--that is because they are yourself.
The Father and I are One--- so are you, One with the Father.
Not knowing this is the illusion--ignorance.
Maya is illusion the cosmic dance.
Non-duality--unity consciousness--Christ Consciousness, Enlightenment, goes beyond illusion.

True, but that being so does not negate the experience of the lower levels. To borrow a phrase from Ken Wilber, the higher levels transcend but do not negate the lower ones. The All includes all. To focus only on the absolute and dismiss the experience of the relative leads people to missing some important things about this experience we are having now in this form of life.

Hi M

Nothing is negated--- hence the expression " I am the totality all of It"
The Self is form formless both and neither.
St Teresa of India when asked how she could work with the dying impoverished in Calcutta said.
" I see everyone as Christ in disguise"
Every enlightened sage brings compassion and love to the world.
Nothing is denied because the suffering is real to those suffering as is the release to those no longer in the state of duality.
The work of the Buddha was to endeavour to bring to an end the suffering.

Chris

[Maunagarjana]

Anyway, I'm done philosophizing. If it is indeed possible to capture some aspect of the spiritual body and manipulate it, that is troubling and also not very nice.

[truthseekerdan]

Anyway, I'm done philosophizing. If it is indeed possible to capture some aspect of the spiritual body and manipulate it, that is troubling and also not very nice.

If one or a collective believes it -- everything is possible in a dream (illusion) state like this 3D reality. :)

[johnf]

I think there is a need to differentiate between the one without a second, or spirit, the body, and that which is arising in between. I find the soul to be a convient pointer to that, however, that is not me. The "soul" or whatever label works for you is the package of experiences, thoughts history etc that points to an existence of a separate self. Down through history souls have a tendency to be worshiped, and there are myriad beliefs about where they go after death. What is capable of looking at any part of this is real being, it seems space like but does not exist in space or time, and here was the kicker for me, cannot be separate or one!

That out of which, and within which everything else arises without any kind of identity.

I think anything that arises in this thing , can and will be elaborated on and comes with it the potential to be caught and manipulated. Even to the extent of the spiritual implants which Bill Refers to above, however even these loose their power if one has veiwed and let go the idea of a separate self and the possibility of it's survival.

[Deborah (ahamkara)]

It is very troubling to find the mindset that anything that may trigger alarm or fear is "illusion", "fear porn", "maya" etc. It also smacks of a sort of spiritual arrogance as in "I am so enlightened that his 3 d existence has no power over my non-dualistic consciousness existing in the realms of pure awareness". C'mon! Most of us are still down here in the gutter, looking up at the stars (thank you Oscar Wilde). Talking about this or that is still duality and still part of this awareness. To try to dismiss the legitimate suffering and enslavement of honest people such as Duncan or Sarah S. is mean spirited.

Fear has it's place for most of us. I will feel fear and run from a threat in this time and space. The spiritual one up manship that dismisses people's legitimate concerns as they move along their path is just more ego.

[gripreaper]

Student: What shall I do to achieve enlightenment?

Master: Chop wood, carry water.

Student: What will I do once I have achieved enlightenment?

Master: Chop wood, carry water.

[bearcow]

The classical definition of a soul is synonymous with the astral being/body

In modern days the terms soul and spirit are used interchangeably by the uneducated.


This brings us to the question of a soul or true being. This is not a thing, it has no dimensions, it cannot even be said to 'exist' as we normally think of things...so it cannot be effected by anything. It is pure awareness.

a soul is not a true being or pure awareness, a spirit is

To use an analogy, the idea that the human mind is also the same thing as the human brain is employing the same type of faulty logic

Just as the mind does not have full control of the brain, the same goes for the spirit's control over the soul.

a human soul like a human brain, can be captured, contolled and even completely annihilated under certain circumstances

to my knowledge, a spirit cannot

Everyone in open society has a soul, as well as a spirit, however "your spirit" has very little to do with what people consider themselves to be as a individual.

[Flash]

I think Bill is right here, souls can be trapped, after all thats what we are here on earth; trapped. DNA is IMO not just physichs, DNA is spiritual computer programming, on earth manifesting as a body. The Matrix is not isolated to third density, it also includes the fourth density, a "place" where we have our light bodys, just a less dense version of our physichal body. This fourth density part of the Matrix is where many so called psychichs and channelers get their information. They think they see beyond the veil into the place where souls are free, but they are mistaken. All this control and manipulation Kerry (and many others) speak about includes, and many times, originates from the fourth density. These are clever guys; we die,, see the light, feel the love, and are in that regard very easily controlled, manipulated and once again incarnated into third density. If we want to leave the Matrix, which we can any chosen time, we need to access the fifth density, which is a density more in tune with our original essence. The trouble with this is that reaching our loved ones from the fifth density is almost impossible. Thats why we stay. As they say in the air force: never leave your wingmate. In this process we can easily be trapped; just in the way it is explained by Bill.

BTW there are many reasons why there are so many people here on earth these days; not all of them are true souls, and one soul can inhabit many bodies. And many are nothing more than generated computer programmes, just as in the movie; look out for the woman in red ;-)

all the best

TRW

I wonder how to differentiate, in every day life, the biological/chemincal/electrical robots versus the incarnated souls versus those that are linked to a none incarnated soul.

I saw a video once of someone who had died and came back, died of a cancer I think, and he decided once dead not to go in the light, but rather asked the light what it was, to bring him to the source, etc. He then decided to come back to share his experience. That was interesting because it was about a soul that is interacted with the light energies.


As the light revealed itself to me, I became aware that what I was really seeing was our Higher Self matrix. The only thing I can tell you is that it turned into a matrix, a mandala of human souls, and what I saw was that what we call our Higher Self in each of us is a matrix. It's also a conduit to the Source; each one of us comes directly, as a direct experience from the Source. We all have a Higher Self, or an oversoul part of our being. It revealed itself to me in its truest energy form. The only way I can really describe it is that the being of the Higher Self is more like a conduit. It did not look like that, but it is a direct connection to the Source that each and every one of us has. We are directly connected to the Source.

So the light was showing me the Higher Self matrix. And it became very clear to me that all the Higher Selves are connected as one being, all humans are connected as one being, we are actually the same being, different aspects of the same being. It was not committed to one particular religion. So that is what was being fed back to me. And I saw this mandala of human souls. It was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen. I just went into it and, it was just overwhelming. It was like all the love you've every wanted, and it was the kind of love that cures, heals, regenerates.

As I asked the light to keep explaining, I understood what the Higher Self matrix is. We have a grid around the planet where all the Higher Selves are connected. This is like a great company, a next subtle level of energy around us, the spirit level, you might say.

Then, after a couple of minutes, I asked for more clarification. I really wanted to know what the universe is about, and I was ready to go at that time.

I said, "I am ready, take me."

Then the light turned into the most beautiful thing that I have ever seen: a mandala of human souls on this planet.

Now I came to this with my negative view of what has happened on the planet. So as I asked the light to keep clarifying for me, I saw in this magnificent mandala how beautiful we all are in our essence, our core. We are the most beautiful creations. The human soul, the human matrix that we all make together is absolutely fantastic, elegant, exotic, everything. I just cannot say enough about how it changed my opinion of human beings in that instant.

I said, "Oh, God, I did not know how beautiful we are."

At any level, high or low, in whatever shape you are in, you are the most beautiful creation, you are.

I was astonished to find that there was no evil in any soul.

I said, "How can this be?"

The answer was that no soul was inherently evil. The terrible things that happened to people might make them do evil things, but their souls were not evil. What all people seek, what sustains them, is love, the light told me. What distorts people is a lack of love.

The revelations coming from the light seemed to go on and on, then I asked the light, "Does this mean that humankind will be saved?"

Then, like a trumpet blast with a shower of spiraling lights, the Great Light spoke, saying, "Remember this and never forget; you save, redeem and heal yourself. You always have. You always will. You were created with the power to do so from before the beginning of the world."

In that instant I realized even more. I realized that WE HAVE ALREADY BEEN SAVED, and we saved ourselves because we were designed to self-correct like the rest of God's universe. This is what the second coming is about

http://near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation04.html

Same text, little further, very important in my opinion


In that instant I realized even more. I realized that WE HAVE ALREADY BEEN SAVED, and we saved ourselves because we were designed to self-correct like the rest of God's universe. This is what the second coming is about

[truth4me]

You know after reading the OP and replys connected with it.....well, let's say taking the red pill has a lot of side effects.

[Jake]

I was just reading in 'The Tao of Physics' about the Buddhist perspective regarding Brahman and Atman. The Unknown/divine and the mechanism where the Brahman 'attaches' to the soul, the Atman. Atman and Brahman,,, (Batman and Robin?) ;) The essence of pure being is outside of our realm of understanding, at least from our physical/linear perspective. ie... Brahman. The ego/soul that manifests in THIS representative of reality (ie,, energy body, astral body, etheric body, etc...) has its attachment, also with the higher/highest self,,, ie,,, Atman.

This is not the ultimate expression of reality. True,,, but the ways in which we experience THIS reality, yes,,, the mechanisms that attach us to the divine (atman) can, and are manipulated and controlled. Incarnations are being controlled in different ways. Of course there is technology that deals with this, and of course it is in the hands of monsters.

Can a soul be captured? I need a better definition of 'soul'... essence, being, energy body, temporary physical/nonphysical state, consciousness... etc... I know from direct knowledge that the mechanisms of our physical and close-astral are constructs of self to the tune of 'creation and experience',,, and YES,,, they can and are manipulated in monstrous ways.

Feel free to correct me, if I have misstated the Buddhist perspective... I LOVE Batman and Robin... ;)

[Kindred]

Can a soul be captured? I suppose it's possible. BUT... what do you do with it? Keep it in a Faraday cage forever... to what end? It takes energy to retain it. You cannot get energy from it... as soon as you try to extract any energy, it will go that way.. OUT. It's not like you can put it in a syringe, and inject it into that which you prefer. The physical vessel must be amendable and acceptable to the soul, and, moreover, the soul must accept the vessel.

Now, I have heard (George Green, I believe) that said that 'they' can take your brain waves and imprint them on another, such as a 'clone'... but,... it's Not You... only some thought patterns from your brain. The True You does Not reside in the brain. It is a hologram that is imparted by every cell of your body, and beyond it in the holographic energy field of The All That Is.

Again... all this talk of imprisoning a soul... Horse feathers! Nothing but Fear Porn.

In Unity, Peace and Love

[Jake]

Can a soul be captured? I suppose it's possible. BUT... what do you do with it? Keep it in a Faraday cage forever... to what end? It takes energy to retain it. You cannot get energy from it... as soon as you try to extract any energy, it will go that way.. OUT. It's not like you can put it in a syringe, and inject it into that which you prefer. The physical vessel must be amendable and acceptable to the soul, and, moreover, the soul must accept the vessel.

Now, I have heard (George Green, I believe) that said that 'they' can take your brain waves and imprint them on another, such as a 'clone'... but,... it's Not You... only some thought patterns from your brain. The True You does Not reside in the brain. It is a hologram that is imparted by every cell of your body, and beyond it in the holographic energy field of The All That Is.

Again... all this talk of imprisoning a soul... Horse feathers! Nothing but Fear Porn.

In Unity, Peace and Love

My friend,,, our souls emit/create unthinkable amounts of energy. That would be the primary reason for capturing/enslaving an essence/experience.... to vampire the energy. What makes you think that you cannot get energy from a soul. Look here,,, http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51142-The-Question-of-LOOSH----

Telling a small child to stay out of the road is not Fear Porn. :)

Ultimately, I believe that the whole of experience is about Creation and the Experience of that creation. In the byandby,,, much energy is created, and yes it is fed from...

[Cognitive Dissident]

The classical definition of a soul is synonymous with the astral being/body

In modern days the terms soul and spirit are used interchangeably by the uneducated.


This brings us to the question of a soul or true being. This is not a thing, it has no dimensions, it cannot even be said to 'exist' as we normally think of things...so it cannot be effected by anything. It is pure awareness.

a soul is not a true being or pure awareness, a spirit is

To use an analogy, the idea that the human mind is also the same thing as the human brain is employing the same type of faulty logic

Just as the mind does not have full control of the brain, the same goes for the spirit's control over the soul.

a human soul like a human brain, can be captured, contolled and even completely annihilated under certain circumstances

to my knowledge, a spirit cannot

Everyone in open society has a soul, as well as a spirit, however "your spirit" has very little to do with what people consider themselves to be as a individual.

Bearcow, I think you are absolutely right. You may be interesting to hear that what you are saying is also the central thesis of a very interesting book called The Lost Secret of Death by Peter Novak. Check it out online, although I recommend buying it (you can get it through Amazon quite easily). Not an easy read, but quite compelling.

[Nickolai]

Tony,
I guess you have never met up with a spiritual being that was captured and held prisoner for millenniums of time. It is a tortured existence being held in a static state unable to move/ express but with consciousness intact.

Christine, probably out of topic but since I read the abov-mentioned line I got puzzled.
Excuse me for my ignorance but have you ever met a spiritual being that was captured? If so then please tell your story, that would be interesting to know from someone who experienced that. I made that conclusion for you speak about it as a matter-of-factly.
I am intrigued. How this being was captured? How this being calculated the millenniums, did it know time? (cos for me time is more and more becomes the "long-talked about" NOW and as far as I know many do experience the change in the perception of time). Did it suffer or was held in anabiosis? Have you met in a dream or in real life? Wow!

Thank you,

Nickolai

[Kindred]

our souls emit/create unthinkable amounts of energy. That would be the primary reason for capturing/enslaving an essence/experience.... to vampire the energy.

Ok... but, how do you differentiate between the soul energy, and that which it emits.. which is 'soul energy' ... HOW do you prevent the soul from escaping??? I think you have to put some more energy into logical thought. As for LOOSH...

If you live in the emotion of Love, then this is a NON ISSUE. And, That emotion is all there Truly is... particularly among pure souls (dis-incarnate beings).

This is what I'm talking about (from post #36):

..."The answer was that no soul was inherently evil. The terrible things that happened to people might make them do evil things, but their souls were not evil. What all people seek, what sustains them, is love, the light told me. What distorts people is a lack of love.

The revelations coming from the light seemed to go on and on, then I asked the light, "Does this mean that humankind will be saved?"

Then, like a trumpet blast with a shower of spiraling lights, the Great Light spoke, saying, "Remember this and never forget; you save, redeem and heal yourself. You always have. You always will. You were created with the power to do so from before the beginning of the world."

In Unity, Peace and Love

[bram]

Dear all,

I would just like to point out that EVERYTHING which emanates from the human mind, including all science and pseudo science, is illusion.

This mind only exists when we are thinking. When we cease to think, it ceases to exists. When we cease to think completely, it will cease to exist completely, and the entire world which the mind conjures up, will collapse.

Many people believe in the existence of an eternal human soul these days. In the same way we invented god to make us feel safe and give us an excuse for our imperfection, we also invented the soul to reassure ourselves that despite our imperfection we are nontheless eternal. As it doesn't exist, it is difficult to see how it can be captured.

In fact we can only become eternal by striving for and attaining perfection. this was the message of the buddha.

[bram]

If God is One without a second then it stands to reason, that you in your True nature as One without a second-- undivided can not be imprisoned/altered/affected.

But we ARE divided. Here in the space-time we are separated from God by O/our own choice and will in order to experience ourself. Or something. But in any case, I think it is evident that we are separate from God even as our true nature is that we ARE God. Otherwise, I would never feel pain, struggle for money, or have desires. Even if the only thing separating us from God is our own self-realization, we are still separate.

Hi Whiskey Mystic,

Yes, we are separated from our true nature (or God) by the illusory world we create with our minds. IMO, we won't get back to our true nature by continuing to go deeper and deeper into the illusion. We need to quiet our minds instead of stirring them up more and more..

[Bill Ryan]

One thing that dosnt resonate with me at all with this material is that in his talks and books he eludes to the fact that our eternal existence as a conscious soul is in fact in jeopardy.... For me it goes without question that our eternal existence is completely independent from and cannot be ultimately harmed in any way from any material aspect of this universe no matter how evasive, powerful, or subtle, it may be. Any one have any further info on what angle he might be pushing with this claim.

(Abhaya was responding to a discussion about something that George Green said in his recent interview, reported here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51483-The-End-of-Days-The-Truth-Hour-George-Green.....).)

This is something that is frequently misunderstood, and is absolutely not true. Souls most certainly can, under certain circumstances, be implanted, imprisoned, and/or harmed.

None of this damage need be permanent (although that's usually the intention); it can be completely repaired. But the harm, before being healed, can sometimes be extremely heavy and can last for the entire duration of a universe, or longer.

I, and many others, have personally freed trapped beings that have experienced and endured this. I do know exactly what I'm talking about here. I'm happy to share some details, though how this all happens can be complex and sometimes a little hard to understand without quite a lot more context.

[gripreaper]

True, but that being so does not negate the experience of the lower levels. To borrow a phrase from Ken Wilber, the higher levels transcend but do not negate the lower ones. The All includes all. To focus only on the absolute and dismiss the experience of the relative leads people to missing some important things about this experience we are having now in this form of life, imho.

All of the levels are real (as real illusions) and have consequences in their own way. But it's just that they are not the whole picture. The physical body itself is an illusion, being temporary and not independently existing, but does that mean we should be unconcerned with the physical body being mistreated and imprisoned?

Wow, someone else who has read Ken Wilbur. Come to think of it, I have not seen a thread here on Avalon discussing his voluminous work. I was a huge Wilbur fan back in the 90's and read many of his books. He's quite a good writer and did very extensive background study.

[Hervé]

While this so-called debate keeps going back and forth, the "controllers" keep adding captured souls to their livestocks... through their regularly scheduled wars and satanic sacrificial events; Sandy being the last on the list as it corresponded to "Halloween" which is the second in importance with respect to sacrificial rituals.

Here is an example of how these souls are used on this lovely planet:


With respect to these sacrificial rituals and what is achieved through them, here is a little known usage in order to control Earth's energy grid:


Then in December, in Dooney's chat, we were systematically boosting all the occult banking families. We were working up the Rothschilds, and a power base they have in Paris. I think on Nancy's intuitive prompting, we all soon realized the Rothschilds were using the Obelisks in Paris to transmit and collect energy. Then we started realizing the obelisks were over corrupted earth vortices, with trapped guardians. We spent some time addressing the grief energy over Diana's murder that was being collected and used against humanity. We were finding wells of souls under them also. A well of souls is a deep pit of trapped, grief shattered souls whose energy is being controlled and used like a generator by the sickos of the world. We had a rollicking time.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p174/fhb_photos/oslo_sa_740x334.jpg
Vigeland Park in Oslo

From: http://www.ethericwarriors.com/ip/viewtopic.php?download=4153&t=1596



Right in everybody's face!

Here is another one :




Steve:

[...]

I have people with psoriasis. We go back in the past and they’ve been burnt at the stake. Skin’s dripping off their body. The last trauma was remembering their skin boiling, dripping off their body. Whatever trauma took place around death will still be online. Any trauma that took place around the death has never been cleared. It will just activate itself in this life. And once it does, it’s activated as if it happened yesterday, you’re back online again with the same trauma, until that trauma has been cleared.

Look, let’s go back. Let’s go back to the Inquisition. Why in the Inquisition did they torture you before they kill you? Because they’re going to kill you anyway? They did it to get you to submit. That gives them access to the soul in the future.

Miranda: THAT is SO key. I mean everything goes back to trauma. Now we understand, on a much deeper level, why trauma has been used so much for all of this stuff. It’s not just to be mean, it’s not just because they’re evil, it’s because they know that gives them access not only in this lifetime, but when you come around for another lifetime, you’re already theirs on a certain level. They know what the power of trauma.

Steve: Yes. And they’re called the born‐rights. They have the born‐rights to your vehicle.

[...]

Interview with Steve Richards:

Download MP3 Audio Dreamtime Healing: Ancient Aboriginal Modalities with Steve Richards-Part 1 (http://www.divshare.com/direct/18152999-ed7.mp3)(right click, "Save as")
Full Transcript -Dreamtime Healing-Hour 1-PDF (http://www.divshare.com/direct/18378351-441.pdf) (right click, "Save as")

Download MP3 Audio Dreamtime Healing: Ancient Aboriginal Modalities with Steve Richards-Part 2 (http://www.divshare.com/direct/18153032-794.mp3)(right click, "Save as")
Full Transcript -Dreamtime Healing-Hour 2-PDF (http://www.divshare.com/direct/18378353-77a.pdf) (right click, "Save as")



These are not your accidental run-of-the-mill confused ghosts lost on their way... these are intended to be "eternal" ghosts and their energy is collected and broadcasted along earth's own power lines.

[johnf]

Been rereading this thread, and recovered something I have wondered about from time to time.
Religions get people to believe that the fate of their souls is the most important thing in existence. More important than their physical lives. Religions glorify and raise those people who have died for their religious beliefs as saints. Looking at this in another way, religions and groups like them try to get us to attach huge amounts of importance, and uninspected emotions to our "souls", which in my understanding is really just the accumulation of memories and ideas about ourselves, also known as ego. In a way they are asking us to discard what we actually are for self and then deify the general idea of self. This is not the only thing done by religions mind you ,but seems to be the main part of it that gets handed down from generation to generation.

The other part of this discussion is the acceptance of the whole spectrum of created reality, probably realities that are created
by spirit getting in the habit of repeating thoughts and layering them into things like the physical universe where bodies can develop, a spirit can focus on one , and work out all the distortions that they have accumulated, and get back to a point of acceptance that ego, self, identity, is not what we really are.

Still not fully satisfied with what I am trying to verbalize here, but at least I got the rough form of it out in the real world.

[johnf]

One thing that dosnt resonate with me at all with this material is that in his talks and books he eludes to the fact that our eternal existence as a conscious soul is in fact in jeopardy.... For me it goes without question that our eternal existence is completely independent from and cannot be ultimately harmed in any way from any material aspect of this universe no matter how evasive, powerful, or subtle, it may be. Any one have any further info on what angle he might be pushing with this claim.

(Abhaya was responding to a discussion about something that George Green said in his recent interview, reported here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51483-The-End-of-Days-The-Truth-Hour-George-Green.....).)

This is something that is frequently misunderstood, and is absolutely not true. Souls most certainly can, under certain circumstances, be implanted, imprisoned, and/or harmed.

None of this damage need be permanent (although that's usually the intention); it can be completely repaired. But the harm, before being healed, can sometimes be extremely heavy and can last for the entire duration of a universe, or longer.

I, and many others, have personally freed trapped beings that have experienced and endured this. I do know exactly what I'm talking about here. I'm happy to share some details, though how this all happens can be complex and sometimes a little hard to understand without quite a lot more context.

I myself have experienced things similar to what you describe in this post. I am very attempted to conclude that these experiences that you had were connected to the Ron's Org material, because that was the source of my own experiences around this subject however my certainty may not be as strong as yours. And I have also done a lot of work with the non-duality self inquiry stuff, after the other stuff, and I tend to have more faith in that.

I would love to hear a more in depth explanation of your views on this subject with all the content and complexity. As a matter of fact I have long wanted to see a real expansion of this subject laid out on this forum so that the details can be explored by more people on this forum.
I think it would be much appreciated, by all of us here if you were to start a new thread and really lay it all out.

John

[Wind]

I've had negative implants on my soul and they've been cleared now. I had major traumas in earlier lives and that attracted negative entities to my spirit. I find it hard to believed that souls could be captured or manipulated, but I guess that anything could be true...

Even if it is true, I'm not wasting my time and energy to worry about it. There are more important things to focus my energy on than fear. As I believe in angels, guardians and God I think that I have absolutely nothing to be afraid of. Only my body can be harmed, but not my soul. Soul is energy and energy is eternal.

There may be parts of souls that can perhaps leave a trace of energy, but it is not you. You are not your mind, nor your body. Of course you do have an aura, and seven etheric bodies, but soul is so much more. It is awareness behind thoughts, awareness that never ever can be taken away.

I know that we are really easily being manipulated here on Earth, but is just a game. Nothing more. The astral dimension where we go after death is a place where we study ourselves between the lives we live.

[jookyle]

Whether a soul can be captured or can not be captured is solely given to the circumstances of the soul and the soul relationship to circumstance. Someone just can't walk up and steal a soul but a soul can be captured by something out of the material conditions under which they died. A person never wants to leave his house, his connection to the house goes through more than just his conscious wich and reaches his soul. Now his soul is connected in that same strong way that his mind is. So when the soul leaves the body, it stays at the house. This is why you have ghosts "haunting" a house where the person to whom the ghost belonged lived their entire life. In the very soul of that man, he wants to stay i that house, so his soul does.

[Tony]

Good morning.

Q. Do we have a soul?
Q. Is this soul separate from me?
Q. Can it be captured?

These are age old questions - your answer to this will dictate what sort of world you live in. If you believe in this thing called a soul, and that it can be captured, then you are living in hell. Why, because fear has been introduced into your life.

Because of a belief in a soul, people have covered mirrors, not wanted their photo taken, spat on the ground, feared to talk of the devil, become very superstitious and religious. Not forgetting wearing lucky charms. If this helps people get through life, then that is their choice.

This is a beautiful world, and all the sentient beings on it (in Essence) are beautiful too. Yes, there some very selfish individuals. I am one of them, there is selfishness in all of us, until we finally let go of everything.

I can recognise consciousness, I can recognise ego, I can recognise Essence, but I cannot recognise a soul. That is because a soul does not exist! In fact neither does consciousness, ego or 'Essence'.

Essence just is, one cannot say it either exists or doesn't exist, as it's beyond all concepts! If Essence is synonymous with God, which is beyond limits, how can any-thing (which is limited) capture it?

This thread is needlessly creating fear, it came from the claim that black op can retrieve and transfer souls, and that there are people that can save your soul. Oh, I thought religions did that!

There are people reading this thread wondering what to believe and getting upset.
To you I say, trust in that which is aware of all that goes on in your mind and in the world.
That is your Essence, it is not complicated.

If we go back to the movie analogy, the film is only seen on the screen by virtue of the light. The film has no reality. The only problem is the projectionist, who still believes what he is projecting is real. Beliefs can have a profound effect on your mind.

I do not have a soul, so there is nothing to steal. It's like a thief entering an empty house!
Show me a tortured soul, and I'll show you a tortured mind.


So, as MC Hammer perfectly said, “Can't touch this!”


Tony

[markpierre]

Fraid you're right Tony. I don't know how you know you're right, but you're right, because you know it. Thanks for standing for it.
You probably don't know why either. That's the point, right? But you do too have a soul, but you call it nothing. I call it Soul, but who cares? Same thing.
Everyone associates the idea of their Soul with the same criteria that they assess everything by. By comparing it to themselves. It's kind of weird.

No one is going to understand that 'nothing' you refer too, because they want to be themselves. We have to save the 'selves'. That's the whole
yahoo about the genes and the DNA and all the s#itty things they did to us because we think we're this. So who is certain about this?
I know you're not. And and I know I'm not. It'd be nice if my DNA could send better instructions to my guts and joints, but why? For how long?
More duration in space/time? A Golden Age? Maybe living in caves.
You know why not. There's something more desirable than that. It's hard to find out why it's more desirable, and that's the problem.
Too much of not what they want still. You know. I struggle with it. You must struggle with it. But isn't that stillness more spontaneous these days?

The 'soul' is a direct aspect of God. It can't be taken away from it's own substance. It can't escape from itself, it IS what God is. Let alone be kidnapped.
Anyone that thinks it can, just think about it a little bit more.

Self identity most certainly can. It's dumb as a brick. You can make it do anything; just scare it. And it doesn't disappear at death, it just gets honest for a while.
It takes you wherever you want to go, and shows you whatever you want to see. It's all made up, or badly interpreted, including itself.
And it will believe almost anything, if it serves some private purpose.
That's a secret. What it won't believe is that it isn't real.

I don't know if what isn't real can goof around forever and get away with it. But I'd rather not participate a whole lot longer.

[angelahedgehog]

I think it's very possible for a soul to be captured but more often than not I think it happens with cooperation and where it doesn't that's where I believe a universal law has been broken.

It's complex to go into and I know everyone's got their own beliefs, I'm just chucking a summary of some of my own into the simmering pot, procrastinating when I should be finalising a synopsis.

At some level people agree to play the game with certain rules, at certain decision points we do things that lead to certain consequences that have certain outcomes. My opinion / point of view / labels for describing how I understand the world may be different to everyone else and therefore it would be pointless to try to describe it in any great detail but let's take a few simple examples of things that bind our (for want of a better word) soul:

1. Vows, Oaths
This is perhaps the first area where people start giving their power away. For example there is a well known, highly publicised religious group that expects new recruits to sign a billion year contract upon joining .... that's pretty binding and I wouldn't even want to hazard guessing the knots of that legal contract and how to begin getting out of it.

I wonder what other Vows and Oaths have been sworn in the secret, underbellies of present reality and what might be involved getting out of them.

There is also a lot in the archetypal dataset of our history and present that if you're willing to trade it for your soul - fame and fortune can happen for you - and much like a novelty tattoo that seemed like a good idea at the time - it may turn out in the fullness of time that it wasn't a very good idea.

2. Soul Debts
This is a slightly different matter ... there are instances that I know of where "magic" using / "energy" directing people from past lives, follow each other through time and each lifetime power play using whomever and whatever is around. I know it sounds kooky and I really don't want to discuss the specifics because I was involved in clearing up an instant and the entity involved attached to me for a while afterward until it eventually left.

I think if you kill someone, you incur a massive debt with that person that on some level must be honoured.

3. Spells
Ever heard of a binding spell? If the caster doesn't lift it, and the victim doesn't have it lifted - it can sit there like an implant for a very long time - lifetimes.

4. Trance / Hypnosis
This is a kind of difficult one to explain in high level terms ... but basically I am going to use the metaphor of the multiple personality disorder .... one person may agree to do something in one state but not in the others - does this bind them in the same way that a sound mind oath or vow would?
I'm not sure entirely certain how this works, I've self-analysed and read the theories - but I think this is probably one of the biggest areas of concern in terms of souls getting captured in present times.

But - and this is very important - the minute you feel fear about it you are more susceptible to being influenced.

There comes a point where once you've traversed the depths of your particular set-up and you've woken up to the fact that at it's heart everything is all in reality, an illusion (usually after some sort of catharsis or kundalini awakening) that you realise that your soul is your own, it always was, it is the observer, part of the greater Atman,, both everywhere and nowhere, both all and nothing ... and after that you just have to figure out what to do with the remaining days of your life.

Anyway that's how the hedgehog rolls
Peace
Ang :o

[greybeard]

Markpierre
I think you summed it up beautifully.
Congratulations --its simple yet the mind does not get it.
"You" do.

Chris

[Tony]

Fraid you're right Tony. I don't know how you know you're right, but you're right, because you know it. Thanks for standing for it.
You probably don't know why either. That's the point, right? But you do too have a soul, but you call it nothing. I call it Soul, but who cares? Same thing.
Everyone associates the idea of their Soul by the same criteria that they assess everything. By comparing it to themselves. It's kind of weird.

No one is going to understand that 'nothing' you refer too, because they want to be themselves. We have to save the 'selves'. That's the whole
yahoo about the genes and the DNA and all the s#itty things they did to us because we think we're this. So who is certain about this?
I know you're not. And and I know I'm not. It'd be nice if my DNA could send better instructions to my guts and joints, but why? For how long?
More duration in space/time? A Golden Age? Maybe living in caves.
You know why not. There's something more desirable than that. It's hard to find out why it's more desirable, and that's the problem.
Too much of not what they want still. You know. I struggle with it. You must struggle with it. But isn't that stillness more spontaneous these days?

The 'soul' is a direct aspect of God. It can't be taken away from it's own substance. It can't escape from itself, it IS what God is. Let alone be kidnapped.
Anyone that thinks it can, just think about it a little bit more.

Self identity most certainly can. It's dumb as a brick. You can make it do anything; just scare it. And it doesn't disappear at death, it just gets honest for a while.
It takes you wherever you want to go, and shows you whatever you want to see. It's all made up, or badly interpreted, including itself.
And it will believe almost anything, if it serves some private purpose.
That's a secret. What it won't believe is that it isn't real.

I don't know if what isn't real can goof around forever and get away with it. But I'd rather not participate a whole lot longer.




Spot on young submariner!

[Tony]

I think it's very possible for a soul to be captured but more often than not I think it happens with cooperation and where it doesn't that's where I believe a universal law has been broken.

It's complex to go into and I know everyone's got their own beliefs, I'm just chucking a summary of some of my own into the simmering pot, procrastinating when I should be finalising a synopsis.

At some level people agree to play the game with certain rules, at certain decision points we do things that lead to certain consequences that have certain outcomes. My opinion / point of view / labels for describing how I understand the world may be different to everyone else and therefore it would be pointless to try to describe it in any great detail but let's take a few simple examples of things that bind our (for want of a better word) soul:

1. Vows, Oaths
This is perhaps the first area where people start giving their power away. For example there is a well known, highly publicised religious group that expects new recruits to sign a billion year contract upon joining .... that's pretty binding and I wouldn't even want to hazard guessing the knots of that legal contract and how to begin getting out of it.

I wonder what other Vows and Oaths have been sworn in the secret, underbellies of present reality and what might be involved getting out of them.

There is also a lot in the archetypal dataset of our history and present that if you're willing to trade it for your soul - fame and fortune can happen for you - and much like a novelty tattoo that seemed like a good idea at the time - it may turn out in the fullness of time that it wasn't a very good idea.

2. Soul Debts
This is a slightly different matter ... there are instances that I know of where "magic" using / "energy" directing people from past lives, follow each other through time and each lifetime power play using whomever and whatever is around. I know it sounds kooky and I really don't want to discuss the specifics because I was involved in clearing up an instant and the entity involved attached to me for a while afterward until it eventually left.

I think if you kill someone, you incur a massive debt with that person that on some level must be honoured.

3. Spells
Ever heard of a binding spell? If the caster doesn't lift it, and the victim doesn't have it lifted - it can sit there like an implant for a very long time - lifetimes.

4. Trance / Hypnosis
This is a kind of difficult one to explain in high level terms ... but basically I am going to use the metaphor of the multiple personality disorder .... one person may agree to do something in one state but not in the others - does this bind them in the same way that a sound mind oath or vow would?
I'm not sure entirely certain how this works, I've self-analysed and read the theories - but I think this is probably one of the biggest areas of concern in terms of souls getting captured in present times.

But - and this is very important - the minute you feel fear about it you are more susceptible to being influenced. There comes a point where once you've traversed the depths of your particular set up and you've woken up to the fact that at it's heart everything is all in reality and illusion (usually after some sort of catharsis or kundalini awakening) that you realise that your soul is your own, it always was, it is the observer, part of the greater Atman,, both everywhere and nowhere, both all and nothing ... and after that you just have to figure out what to do with the remaining days of your life.

Anyway that's how the hedgehog rolls
Peace
Ang :o


Hello young hedgehog,

If you are saying soul in our mind, then I would agree.
Mind has consciousness which holds thoughts, these are temporary events, and are changeable. Neuro linguistic programming sees to that!

However, when you were a little hedgehog and now a grown up hedgehog, that which observes all this coming and going....has never changed throughout that time! Is that what is being called Soul, or as some call Essence.

We are free beings. This pure being, was never born and can never die. We are embodied beings caught up in our play of karma. Once we exhaust our karma, which is only a load of fixated ideas we hold onto...we will be literally free!

It's amazing how one small idea creeps into our minds, and can rule our lives...we have a lot of them!

Keep on rolling,
Tony

[Tony]

Whether a soul can be captured or can not be captured is solely given to the circumstances of the soul and the soul relationship to circumstance. Someone just can't walk up and steal a soul but a soul can be captured by something out of the material conditions under which they died. A person never wants to leave his house, his connection to the house goes through more than just his conscious wich and reaches his soul. Now his soul is connected in that same strong way that his mind is. So when the soul leaves the body, it stays at the house. This is why you have ghosts "haunting" a house where the person to whom the ghost belonged lived their entire life. In the very soul of that man, he wants to stay i that house, so his soul does.


Hello Jookyle,

It's amazing how one small idea creeps into our minds, and can rule our lives...we have a lot of them!
At death we are energy with luggage. Our karma (which is only a bunch of ideas we have collected and hold onto) keeps us on a fixated track.
Is this the soul, or the mind without a body?

Tony

[angelahedgehog]

Pie'n'eal, exactly, 'We are free beings. This pure being, was never born and can never die. We are embodied beings caught up in our play of karma. Once we exhaust our karma, which is only a load of fixated ideas we hold onto...we will be literally free!'

But people still have to work through whatever is in the Mind consciousness - it's like finishing a book, painting, good meal or movie - as arduous as Frodo and Sam's journey is to the fires of Mount Doom, they still need to do it that way probably because if they hadn't struggled, Golum probably wouldn't have made the final sacrifice.... I know it's a movie, but it's a cracking metaphor too :)

Rolling along,
Ang :o

[Abhaya]

One thing to clarify, there is a huge difference between captured and harmed. If these are being treated as one and the same I think there is some misconception there. To a large extent we can argue we are captured already in this limited existence rather by choice or other reason dosnt matter. But I'm going to have to stick by the fact that no ultimate harm or in fact even minute harm can come to something that is catagorically different from even the most subtle level of the material universe. In the same way that you can't teach Spanish to a rock as a crude example. These things just don't mix.

[Tony]

From 6.20 gives the feeling of just letting go... to change.
Life is constantly changing.
"..you cannot hang onto yourself"

ioFG999aOCs

¤=[Post Update]=¤


One thing to clarify, there is a huge difference between captured and harmed. If these are being treated as one and the same I think there is some misconception there. To a large extent we can argue we are captured already in this limited existence rather by choice or other reason dosnt matter. But I'm going to have to stick by the fact that no ultimate harm or in fact even minute harm can come to something that is catagorically different from even the most subtle level of the material universe. In the same way that you can't teach Spanish to a rock as a crude example. These things just don't mix.


Maybe we get captured by being side tracked!;)

[Flash]

From anlgeedgedog:
But - and this is very important - the minute you feel fear about it you are more susceptible to being influenced. ,

You got it right there, the minute you fear you are susceptible to influence. Soul capture may be just that, influence for thousands of our human years. Inlfuence into believing soul can be capture or influence into anything by the way. Then the oversoul has to self correct and come and clean the influence - we come and believe we have saved a soul!! Even the poor bugger believes it because he is released of fear and influence, he thinks his soul has been released. Just thinking.....


Someone also said the soul self correct: this one makes my beliefs happy. My daughter came into this world with dysphasia (partial aphasia) which creates all kind of communication problems, inlcuding learning problems due to difficult communication. I had been told that in previous lifes she had used a bright mind with an agile mouth to blast people and destroy. Therefore, her soul self corrected this time around, she only over did it (a little too much correction to be normal). I like this thought, it makes it kind of more acceptable. lol Ok, I am sidetracking here...

[panopticon]

This is something that is frequently misunderstood, and is absolutely not true. Souls most certainly can, under certain circumstances, be implanted, imprisoned, and/or harmed.

None of this damage need be permanent (although that's usually the intention); it can be completely repaired. But the harm, before being healed, can sometimes be extremely heavy and can last for the entire duration of a universe, or longer.

I, and many others, have personally freed trapped beings that have experienced and endured this. I do know exactly what I'm talking about here. I'm happy to share some details, though how this all happens can be complex and sometimes a little hard to understand without quite a lot more context.

G'day Bill,

Yes thanks.
I would like it if you could share some more details please.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[Tony]

I love a good ghost story.

When I was six years old, my brother and I would get under a blanket in a dark room, place a green and red torches under our chins and tell ghost stories.
Just good fun, until Mum would tell us to go to sleep.

Just good fun... however I'd always pull the bed sheet over my head...just in case!

Fantasy can have a detrimental effect on your mental health. ;)

[Wind]

From 6.20 gives the feeling of just letting go... to change.
Life is constantly changing.
"..you cannot hang onto yourself"

ioFG999aOCs


Eckhart Tolle speaks exactly of the same thing!

BqOgR61zAlo

[greybeard]

Sometimes I wonder if those who are unaware of conspiracy theories etc are a lot less harmful to the collective consciousness than those deeply immersed in who did what to whom!!!!

Chris

[Fred Steeves]

I'm rather partial to the metaphoric outbreath/inbreath of "God" Creating. Upon the exhale of Creating, everything is set free to lose itself utterly and completely in exploring whatever strikes it's fancy. This would of course include the thorough exploration of what we refer to as good and evil. Certainly this could even include the experience of the soul becoming trapped, and endlessly harvested of it's vital life force. On the flip side, there is the experience of being the harvester. Both are equally lost, and to separate the two versions of being lost as something different, would be equivalent to describing the top half of an apple as being different from the bottom half.

There very likely IS no way out of this in some cases, save for the calling to go home with the beginning of the great inbreath. Many will resist and struggle against this, and that's part of being hopelessly lost as well. In the end all arrive safely back home, and we have us a great time comparing our war stories and battle scars.

Once everything has died down, and the grand homecoming party is down to just that low murmur, there is invariably some joker in the crowd, probably someone like me, who will suddenly jump up front and center and yell "HEY, LET'S DO IT AGAIN!!!". http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif

Cheers,
Fred

[Bill Ryan]

One thing to clarify, there is a huge difference between captured and harmed. If these are being treated as one and the same I think there is some misconception there. To a large extent we can argue we are captured already in this limited existence rather by choice or other reason dosnt matter. But I'm going to have to stick by the fact that no ultimate harm or in fact even minute harm can come to something that is catagorically different from even the most subtle level of the material universe. In the same way that you can't teach Spanish to a rock as a crude example. These things just don't mix.

It's all about the word 'ultimate'. :)

Yes, I agree that ultimately, no harm can come to a soul. But in between the start of eternity and the end (this is a metaphor!!), a lot of bad things can happen that are not necessarily chosen by the soul.

And that depends on your definition of "bad", as well. My definition of experiencing a bad thing is something like being imprisoned, tortured, used, abused, and implanted to be something quite different from one's basic identity, for up to quadrillions of years and hundreds of universe cycles.

In the end, that soul can be fully healed and rehabilitated. I have done this myself: I've been trained in the techniques, and how to apply them. But I would personally classify that experience as "harmful". This may really be what this discussion is about.

In summary: souls/ spirits are categorically not impervious to having bad, unchosen experiences enforced on them by others with agendas that break the agreements of those taking part in "reality". It's very important to understand this.

[Cristian]

From wiki:

"A frame of reference in physics, may refer to a coordinate system or set of axes within which to measure the position, orientation, and other properties of objects in it, or it may refer to an observational reference frame tied to the state of motion of an observer. It may also refer to both an observational reference frame and an attached coordinate system as a unit."


I noticed lately , there is a debate on this forum between two factions.

We have the "buddhists" team on one side and the "curious cats" on the other side. Both describing the same truth but from different frames of reference.

From the "buddhists" point of view everything is an ilusion. They love to oversimplify things. Nothing is real, so the sooner you let go of everything the better. "You are the source of all purity and impurity"...

Now "the cats" are more into the why, who and how mindset. I admit I'm more of a cat then a buddhist . I need to know.

I would like buddhists to start their posts by saying "from the highest frame of reference ..." and then post whatever they want to say. Then I will completly agree with what they are saying.

You know, I dont have the heart to walk by a man in agony, that was just hit by a car, and say to him: "It's just an ilusion you don't really have two broken legs".

Tony, you said you love a good ghost story.
You also said "Fantasy can have a detrimental effect on your mental health."

So i get you only had a slice of cake. By any means you did not tasted the whole cake. Lucky you...or maybe not.
I can tell you stories. Stories that left me asking, who, why , what in the world is going on?
I am willing to simplify things , like you do, only after i get my answers . And only after , from my cat frame of reference I see things changed for the better.

[Free Bird]

Thank you for raising this question on Avalon Pie'n'eal. I came across this thread by 'chance' and took a peek out of curiosity not knowing what to expect.

Over the last few years, I've become drawn to metaphysical speculation and have explored various spiritual paths. One of the the first things which became clear to me is that all religions seem intent on controlling the lives of humanity by using the carrot and stick method - the former being, "follow this and only this one and only path and you will achieve a place in heaven / paradise / release from this earthly existence; the stick being the fearsome, "stray off this one and only path and you will be damned for eternity / sentenced to hell in perpetuity / doomed to repeat endless cycles of death and rebirth in this earthly plane". Makes your choices and takes your pick!

What has this got to do with the question of whether or not a soul can be captured? Well, the way I understand it is that all of the above take the premise that there are three levels of existence / consciousness:

the body and mind
the Soul as a separate entity
the all pervading absolute reality / the source / god / heaven / Brahman etc

The implication here is that the Soul can migrate from one state to another. In terms of reincarnation, the soul takes its memories of the previous past lives and migrates into a body most suited for those previous memories. And thus one's Karma becomes the cycle of cause and effect. In a similar way, your deeds determine whether or not you go to heaven etc.

I suppose if one believes in the nature of the above and that the soul is a completely separate entity, then there is room for the soul to be, hijacked or at least, set on a path of eternal cycles of reincarnation or a state of everlasting hell or wotever...

I've been reading up on the philosophy of modern Advaita Vedanta, which takes the view that there are only two levels of existence, the absolute Brahman at one level and the body/mind at the other and that the soul or Atman is our consciousness, which is ultimately Brahman. So when we ask, ‘who am I?’, in modern Advaita, we would say, on the absolute plane I am Brahman and on the relative plane, I am this individual consciousness, this complex of I-ness, thoughts and sensations.

If one take this view, then it would be very difficult if not impossible to have your soul captured because ultimately you are Brahman - we are all Brahman - the one supreme, universal Spirit that is the origin and support of the universe.

My personal view is that if we look into ourselves and realise we are Brahman, then our "souls" per se cannot be captured. For me, this philosophy also chimes in with the idea we manifest different levels of reality through our consciousness, which is the game of life we all play today.

I'm not sure if I have articulated my thoughts very well - I hope that some of it at least makes sense :)

Peace and Love
-x-

[greybeard]

This video posted by StarSeed covers quite a bit that is relevant.

I believe that there is always present a way out of whatever prison you find yourself in.
Many things in a life things happen that no one in their right mind would choose but sometimes in greatest peril/adversity there arises an opportunity to escape--realise ones true identity--beyond form.

The late Dr David Hawkins, whom I am fond of mentioning, stated that he found himself in the depth of hell---formless, misery beyond description.
He called out "If there is a God I ask Him for help" according to him the energy of an Archangel saved him from that hell.

As with some others here I went through the hell of alcoholism and when I hit rock bottom and had enough humility to ask the God of my understanding for help that happened.
After being sober for some time I was nearly drowned in the Indian Ocean--- I surrendered and found my self winded, battered and bashed but alive on the surface and rescue to hand.
The power of belief phenomenal.
The fact that I was ok with dying relaxed me enough not to struggle to survive and make matters worse.
So that's my experience and I can only speak for me.

Chris

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqOgR61zAlo&feature=player_embedded



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqOgR61zAlo&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqOgR61zAlo&feature=player_embedded

[Tarka the Duck]

From the "buddhists" point of view everything is an ilusion.

Hello Chris82

I feel that there could be a subtle but important misunderstanding here.

Buddhism does not state that reality is an illusion.
It is said that our version of what we think of as reality is the illusion.  

Very clearly the external world exists in the real sense of the word. When we interact with it, we project ideas, values, assumptions and expectations on to it: what we perceive is often more a product of our minds than the qualities of the object itself.

We see everything through the filter of our desires, memories, prejudices; the enlightened person ‘sees things as they really are’ .

In other words, what our minds construct as being real and true is merely an interpretation of what we see. It has no inherent reality.  
There is a simple metaphor for this; mistaking the reflection of the moon in water (an insubstantial, illusory image) as being the moon itself. The moon was always there, but we missed it because we were transfixed by its reflection.

In this way, everything that we see arises as a thought or reflection in our minds - what we think of as reality is really an illusion, and not true reality.

Incidentally, I never thought of it as "two factions"...:confused:

Kathie

[panopticon]

I feel that there could be a subtle but important misunderstanding here.

Buddhism does not state that reality is an illusion.
It is said that our version of what we think of as reality is the illusion.  

Very clearly the external world exists in the real sense of the word. When we interact with it, we project ideas, values, assumptions and expectations on to it: what we perceive is often more a product of our minds than the qualities of the object itself.

We see everything through the filter of our desires, memories, prejudices; the enlightened person ‘sees things as they really are’ .

In other words, what our minds construct as being real and true is merely an interpretation of what we see. It has no inherent reality.  
There is a simple metaphor for this; mistaking the reflection of the moon in water (an insubstantial, illusory image) as being the moon itself. The moon was always there, but we missed it because we were transfixed by its reflection.


Thank you Kathie,

So many make this fundamental mistake.
You explained it beautifully.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[Tony]

From wiki:

"A frame of reference in physics, may refer to a coordinate system or set of axes within which to measure the position, orientation, and other properties of objects in it, or it may refer to an observational reference frame tied to the state of motion of an observer. It may also refer to both an observational reference frame and an attached coordinate system as a unit."


I noticed lately , there is a debate on this forum between two factions.

We have the "buddhists" team on one side and the "curious cats" on the other side. Both describing the same truth but from different frames of reference.

From the "buddhists" point of view everything is an ilusion. They love to oversimplify things. Nothing is real, so the sooner you let go of everything the better. "You are the source of all purity and impurity"...

Now "the cats" are more into the why, who and how mindset. I admit I'm more of a cat then a buddhist . I need to know.

I would like buddhists to start their posts by saying "from the highest frame of reference ..." and then post whatever they want to say. Then I will completly agree with what they are saying.

You know, I dont have the heart to walk by a man in agony, that was just hit by a car, and say to him: "It's just an ilusion you don't really have two broken legs".

Tony, you said you love a good ghost story.
You also said "Fantasy can have a detrimental effect on your mental health."

So i get you only had a slice of cake. By any means you did not tasted the whole cake. Lucky you...or maybe not.
I can tell you stories. Stories that left me asking, who, why , what in the world is going on?
I am willing to simplify things , like you do, only after i get my answers . And only after , from my cat frame of reference I see things changed for the better.





Hello Chris,


Briefly, saying everything is an illusion, is talking about what only seems to be real, constant, true. For if something is real, it has to be constant, and therefore true...it can never not 'be'.
Everything in the universe is of an impermanent nature, so, has the illusion of being real...a dream-like state.

That being said, even though we live in the present moment, in an illusory world, we have to take great care of it...and one another. Buddhism's first tenet is Compassion... Empathy. The reason for saying all is an illusion, is so we do not get hung-up on anything. Give everything its due respect, nothing more, nothing less.

For buddhists relative reality and ultimate reality are inseparable.

It is precisely because one understands the ultimate nature of our being, which is pure awareness, that this pure awareness looks out and sees every other being as having this same pure nature. However it also notices that these beings do not notice their pure nature, and they therefore suffer. That is why compassion arises.

The very nature of all things are their, none reality = they are Empty of any true existence, this body and mind included. But it is within this illusory body and mind that we have to work, it grounds us!

Gradually we peel away all our fantasies and ideas, and realise reality...we are none other than pure awareness. However our coarse consciousness keeps us here, because we do not want to let go.

We easily can say, “I want to let go!”...but we are still holding onto something...and that's me.

It's a very subtle business- not taking things seriously!





Tony

[Dorjezigzag]

Within all the great spiritual traditions there is a concept of hell. From the kingdoms of Hades and Osiris to the realms of the monotheistic Satan.

Buddhism of course does not limit its self to one hell with many Hells often depicted.

The Tibetan book of the dead is partly about navigating through the chaos of the afterlife in order that one may avoid hellish realms. The Ancient Egyptians were very concerned with the fate of the soul after death.

I have seen many people posting beliefs of the afterlife as though it is some kind of supermarket where we choose from a wide selection our next life in order that we can learn what we believe we need to learn. Of course in the afterlife consciousness is not as we know it here, your future direction is governed by your past actions, you become an energy that flows dependent on its nature.

I have always been very aware of my multidimensionality from a young age, I have seen tortured souls who are still living and those that have past on. The reasons are many for their suffering but there is always hope even if they cannot see it.

I have used this quote before but I think it relates to this thread, it was in the film Jacobs Ladder, a film about the afterlife, which is a must watch film and it claims that it was a quote from the German theologian, philosopher and mystic, Meister Eckhart (1260 – c. 1327.) Interestingly Eckart tolle took his name from Meister Eckhart due to his love of his works.

"Eckhart saw Hell too; he said: 'the only thing that burns in Hell is the part of you that won't let go of life, your memories, your attachments. They burn them all away. But they're not punishing you,' he said. 'They're freeing your soul. So, if you're frightened of dying and... you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.'"

zSzs4V6tkJQ

[confused]

Whether a soul can be captured or harmed infers there is a level of detachment, or individuality, in that spirit realm. So where does this individuality come from.

Ever since I began to awaken years ago, I often wondered on the true nature of the spirit/soul (whether there is a difference between the two I don't know, but for sake of this thread I will use them interchangeably). The fact that each of us is a spirit logically infers that even in our higher spiritual dimensions there is a division among us, perceived or other. So how do we get to that division in the first place? Where does this individual spirit (my soul versus your soul) come from? How are individual spirits created? Were we always around, or did some of us appear as individual souls in existence at different times?

Also, regarding David Icke's emphasis on the archons and their ruling demiurge - where does this demiurge come from? If we are all one, then this demiurge must be one with us as well - or not? How to understand this?

Another thing I have wondered, by what process do souls get to inhabit a body on Earth? Is it forced, is there a lottery system? I assume there are more souls that wish to incarnate than available bodies on Earth, so who gets to go?

Bill has given a small summary somewhere of some of his past lives, and it seems from the dates provided (this is just from my memory) they always come one right after the other - no breaks. So how come he gets to incarnate again soon after he dies? What about other souls?

These kinds of questions are of great interest to me, and I think they at least indirectly relate to this thread.

[Tony]

This thread is truly relevant to human understanding. Here we are discussing something that has interested people for thousands of years!

As Dorjezigzag says of Erkhart..."if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.'"


That is the unity of the two truths.

Thank you to all who are participating: every view shines some light on something!


Can the soul be captured? Well, if it exists, it can be side tracked....for a while

[AriG]

Yes- (from what I have been told.) Partially (separated from source in a single incarnation) or fully ( every incarnation simultaneously imprisoned). Fully captured souls for all practical purposes, cease to exist as they are stuck in closed circuit.

[Tony]

Perhaps we are been capture and put here....by our past actions = karma.

[ROMANWKT]

Good morning.

Q. Do we have a soul?
Q. Is this soul separate from me?
Q. Can it be captured?

These are age old questions - your answer to this will dictate what sort of world you live in. If you believe in this thing called a soul, and that it can be captured, then you are living in hell. Why, because fear has been introduced into your life.

Because of a belief in a soul, people have covered mirrors, not wanted their photo taken, spat on the ground, feared to talk of the devil, become very superstitious and religious. Not forgetting wearing lucky charms. If this helps people get through life, then that is their choice.

This is a beautiful world, and all the sentient beings on it (in Essence) are beautiful too. Yes, there some very selfish individuals. I am one of them, there is selfishness in all of us, until we finally let go of everything.

I can recognise consciousness, I can recognise ego, I can recognise Essence, but I cannot recognise a soul. That is because a soul does not exist! In fact neither does consciousness, ego or 'Essence'.

Essence just is, one cannot say it either exists or doesn't exist, as it's beyond all concepts! If Essence is synonymous with God, which is beyond limits, how can any-thing (which is limited) capture it?

This thread is needlessly creating fear, it came from the claim that black op can retrieve and transfer souls, and that there are people that can save your soul. Oh, I thought religions did that!

There are people reading this thread wondering what to believe and getting upset.
To you I say, trust in that which is aware of all that goes on in your mind and in the world.
That is your Essence, it is not complicated.

If we go back to the movie analogy, the film is only seen on the screen by virtue of the light. The film has no reality. The only problem is the projectionist, who still believes what he is projecting is real. Beliefs can have a profound effect on your mind.

I do not have a soul, so there is nothing to steal. It's like a thief entering an empty house!
Show me a tortured soul, and I'll show you a tortured mind.


So, as MC Hammer perfectly said, “Can't touch this!”


Tony

Hi Tony

NO, the soul does not exist, only the life force given to you by your parent.

Regards

roman

[DeDukshyn]

Here we go again!

What is at the bottom of the rabbit hole? Just another dream! If you stuff your head with things you do not understand, this doesn't leave room for free will and intelligence.

From http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51640-Camelot-disclosure-from-Kerry:

“10. SOUL RETRIEVAL AND TRANSFERENCE :Taking souls from bodies and putting them into stasis and then into new bodies to serve the 'machine' of the secret state. Clones, androids etc. using Grey technology.”

This clearly shows the lack of understanding of the difference between consciousness and true being.

There are electrical impulses in the brain, these are created by the mind = consciousness via the senses. This is your 'normal' mechanical human being. Ordinary human beings who react to everything around them. They either accept everything around them or reject everything around them. They are easily led!

This brings us to the question of a soul or true being. This is not a thing, it has no dimensions, it cannot even be said to 'exist' as we normally think of things...so it cannot be effected by anything. It is pure awareness.

What can be controlled is the mind/consciousness, which is just a set of ideas...a mind set! Information goes in...and gets stuck there.
This is how people are controlled.

Come on people, stop being so easily led.




Tony

===

[ Mod-edit: As announced here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51640-Camelot-disclosure-from-Kerry&p=579095&viewfull=1#post579095), the following thread began life as posts on the Camelot disclosure from Kerry (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51640-Camelot-disclosure-from-Kerry) thread. - Paul. ]

Well agreed. I would say our souls are already captured by the mechinations of rational thought processes for the purpose of relieving the fear that is constantly injected into our environment.

Thus the question in my mind becomes "Can a Soul be set free?"

[AriG]

Hi Tony

NO, the soul does not exist, only the life force given to you by your parent.

Regards

roman

Roman,

What do you believe happens after death?

[Tony]

Here we go again!

What is at the bottom of the rabbit hole? Just another dream! If you stuff your head with things you do not understand, this doesn't leave room for free will and intelligence.

From http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51640-Camelot-disclosure-from-Kerry:

“10. SOUL RETRIEVAL AND TRANSFERENCE :Taking souls from bodies and putting them into stasis and then into new bodies to serve the 'machine' of the secret state. Clones, androids etc. using Grey technology.”

This clearly shows the lack of understanding of the difference between consciousness and true being.

There are electrical impulses in the brain, these are created by the mind = consciousness via the senses. This is your 'normal' mechanical human being. Ordinary human beings who react to everything around them. They either accept everything around them or reject everything around them. They are easily led!

This brings us to the question of a soul or true being. This is not a thing, it has no dimensions, it cannot even be said to 'exist' as we normally think of things...so it cannot be effected by anything. It is pure awareness.

What can be controlled is the mind/consciousness, which is just a set of ideas...a mind set! Information goes in...and gets stuck there.
This is how people are controlled.

Come on people, stop being so easily led.




Tony

===

[ Mod-edit: As announced here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51640-Camelot-disclosure-from-Kerry&p=579095&viewfull=1#post579095), the following thread began life as posts on the Camelot disclosure from Kerry (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51640-Camelot-disclosure-from-Kerry) thread. - Paul. ]

Well agreed. I would say our souls are already captured by the mechinations of rational thought processes for the purpose of relieving the fear that is constantly injected into our environment.

Thus the question in my mind becomes "Can a Soul be set free?"





Whatever this soul is, the answer to "Can a soul be set free?"...is Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes, Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes, Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes!
If we are saying the SOUL is something like consciousness....then Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes, Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes, Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes!
If we are saying the SOUL is something like our natural pure being...it is free already! But is obscured by this consciousness thingy!

[Abhaya]

One thing to clarify, there is a huge difference between captured and harmed. If these are being treated as one and the same I think there is some misconception there. To a large extent we can argue we are captured already in this limited existence rather by choice or other reason dosnt matter. But I'm going to have to stick by the fact that no ultimate harm or in fact even minute harm can come to something that is catagorically different from even the most subtle level of the material universe. In the same way that you can't teach Spanish to a rock as a crude example. These things just don't mix.

It's all about the word 'ultimate'. :)

Yes, I agree that ultimately, no harm can come to a soul. But in between the start of eternity and the end (this is a metaphor!!), a lot of bad things can happen that are not necessarily chosen by the soul.

And that depends on your definition of "bad", as well. My definition of experiencing a bad thing is something like being imprisoned, tortured, used, abused, and implanted to be something quite different from one's basic identity, for up to quadrillions of years and hundreds of universe cycles.

In the end, that soul can be fully healed and rehabilitated. I have done this myself: I've been trained in the techniques, and how to apply them. But I would personally classify that experience as "harmful". This may really be what this discussion is about.

In summary: souls/ spirits are categorically not impervious to having bad, unchosen experiences enforced on them by others with agendas that break the agreements of those taking part in "reality". It's very important to understand this.

Well said. I of course agree with the bad experience part 100%. Also I think you are making a valid point that people should not get a sense of carelessness or over confidence from the fact that "ultimately" they cannot get hurt. As long as you are in and identified with this material reality you can suffer unimaginably. For most everyone,( my self hugely included haha), we cannot come close to saying that we are not identified and attached to even some of the most gross material things. And just how many trillions of lifetimes it might take the average person to become detached even from the subtlest levels of egoic identity is beyond me. And until that happens.... You can suffer. Therefor Clearly lots of possibity to suffer and be entrapped.

I would differ where you say that others can force the bad experience upon us. And say that it is always our own fault be it from previous desires, karma, actions or some kind of willing consent. This is a debate on its own. But doesn't matter as far as the original point, as the danger is there regardless. You could say our own ability to make limitless mistakes is an enemy too.

However again in the talk where George green says that nukes present a danger to the "soul energy", I see no way to harmonize this as anything other then hogwash.

I should add that I enjoyed the rest of his interview very much. And he seemed to me, like a genuine nice person. Vastly more intelligent then myself.

Just calling him out on that one statement.

[DeDukshyn]

Here we go again!

What is at the bottom of the rabbit hole? Just another dream! If you stuff your head with things you do not understand, this doesn't leave room for free will and intelligence.

From http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51640-Camelot-disclosure-from-Kerry:

“10. SOUL RETRIEVAL AND TRANSFERENCE :Taking souls from bodies and putting them into stasis and then into new bodies to serve the 'machine' of the secret state. Clones, androids etc. using Grey technology.”

This clearly shows the lack of understanding of the difference between consciousness and true being.

There are electrical impulses in the brain, these are created by the mind = consciousness via the senses. This is your 'normal' mechanical human being. Ordinary human beings who react to everything around them. They either accept everything around them or reject everything around them. They are easily led!

This brings us to the question of a soul or true being. This is not a thing, it has no dimensions, it cannot even be said to 'exist' as we normally think of things...so it cannot be effected by anything. It is pure awareness.

What can be controlled is the mind/consciousness, which is just a set of ideas...a mind set! Information goes in...and gets stuck there.
This is how people are controlled.

Come on people, stop being so easily led.




Tony

===

[ Mod-edit: As announced here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51640-Camelot-disclosure-from-Kerry&p=579095&viewfull=1#post579095), the following thread began life as posts on the Camelot disclosure from Kerry (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51640-Camelot-disclosure-from-Kerry) thread. - Paul. ]

Well agreed. I would say our souls are already captured by the mechinations of rational thought processes for the purpose of relieving the fear that is constantly injected into our environment.

Thus the question in my mind becomes "Can a Soul be set free?"





Whatever this soul is, the answer to "Can a soul be set free?"...is Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes, Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes, Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes!
If we are saying the SOUL is something like consciousness....then Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes, Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes, Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes!
If we are saying the SOUL is something like our natural pure being...it is free already! But is obscured by this consciousness thingy!

Exactly! Perception is the key! Shift perception and consciousness shifts with it ;) ;) Thus entertaining the 'fact' that a soul can be trapped, is a trap in itself, wouldn't you say? ;)

[Hughe]

Advanced beings literally move souls around in space.

Few decades of meditation only got me barely touch what's non-physical state. I began to study other subjects that deal with soul and non-physical worlds. I definitely recommend go through well-written books and videos you can find with open mind. That will give you bigger perspective, closer picture of whole soul business.

Past life regression, lucid dreaming, mind control especially MKULTRA stuff, and information about ETs'' civilizations in general, quantum theories, holistic healing.

Possessing soul memory has been done over many generations on Earth. Why people have blank memories of past lives?
It's logical conclusion any human can be omni-intelligent being like the God if he/she could regain ability of accessing soul memories. Of course not a single party which in power do not want this thing happens in massive scale.

[Tony]

The Truman Show in real life – and you can walk out at any time you chose.

This may throw some light on this topic.

Derren Brown is a hypnotist and illusionist, and has just completed an exercise called Apocalypse: this is pertinent to this forum. This may just be a staged stunt for the TV, but for me it ranks up there with “1984” and “Brave New World”.

Briefly, he took a selfish, lost young man through a scenario of a meteor striking the Earth, causing the Apocalypse - and with a zombie plague thrown in. The man returned, now aware of his previous selfishness.

A little more detail...
The man was primed weeks before, with fake TV and radio reports about a meteor strike, bringing destruction, panic and fear... just like forums! Then, one day, he was travelling in a bus with primed passengers, when suddenly all around them were explosions, and the bus came to a halt. Derren crept behind the man, placed his hand over the man's face and he was immediately hypnotised.
He was taken to a compound, where he awoke to find himself with a couple of other (primed) survivors, and he faced a serious of challenges.

Eventually his behaviour became unselfish, and he began to help others before himself. When escaping from the compound in order to take a young girl home, he heard a 'phone' ringing, picked it up, and was immediately put into another hypnotic trance. He was taken home, woke up (out of the trance), went downstairs and joyously, tearfully hugged his family, as he has just had such a “bad dream. He then went into the lounge and found Derren, who explained all. The man had been changed for the good...and he was incredibly grateful.

So, the point is that the mind can be primed, hypnotised, made to do things and experience things, be aware, and come out again. The experience was utterly horrific for this man, and he was pushed to his limits.

There was mind present. There was awareness present. So where was the 'soul'?

Be very careful of how you are being primed!

The very thought that there is a secret 'thing' called a soul, and it can be captured, will keep you imprisoned and controlled – in the same way as a belief in an ego will. They are both merely a buzz of consciousness wanting to believe in itself. We can mistake our energy for a soul, but that is just a combination of mind and body...the buzz of consciousness!

Our pure Essence is beyond all that. When the consciousness is distracted, it forgets pure being.

Ego, like the soul, does not exist. It too is the buzz of consciousness. These two have been made into “something” but neither exists.

Most human beings are unconscious of their true nature. Being unconscious, they live in a mental dream – an illusion.
It is only when we awaken to our inner being that we become aware we have been dreaming.
It doesn't matter whether we live in London or Vilcabamba, we are all under the same illusion. In the same hypnotic state.
It's only when we identify a problem that it can be resolved.

Could the idea of a 'soul' be a comfort thing, a solid identity that never changes? Whereas 'we', the idea of an “I” could merely be a series of temporary impulses, held together by ignorance... ..ignorance of our true nature.



Yours irritatingly,
Tony

[angelahedgehog]

Pretty much all of Derren Browns work is available on demand and is really important for understanding the potential depth and extent the mind can be manipulated and beliefs implanted and behaviour controlled ... Watch enough shows and you'll realise that the mind can be very gullible and susceptible. This is useful for picking up how we're being influenced without even knowing it. That's why channeled info, visions, voices in the head etc. needs to be challenged! 

There is definitely an agenda to introduce memes - trends of beliefs - watch tv with dispassion and switch sound down but it's worth checking from time to time. But just walking down the street you'll get an eye full of imagery that you're probably not even aware of. And I can't shake that there's an interactivity that arrived with HD. Cast your mind back to the opening ceremony of the special olympics ... And the collective biting of the apple ... And the biting of the Big Apple now ... Power of the mind?

We've talked for years in groups over time and space about collectively waking up to this impending prison that people globally are in denial over (funny how those that are outside the illusion or operating in their own are being pruned ...)

We call the sleeping and unconscious many things - sheeple most often and with most disparagement (I wonder if we could call those willingly participating Goats instead to distinguish between the real innocents and the instigators.  The sheeple are the real victims because they've shut themselves down (trauma, fear) perhaps they cannot overcome their cognitive dissonance, and perhaps in other cases they've deliberately shut themselves down and resigned to play the game (thinking that the rules are fair, governed and entrusted to a reliable referee) ... The game is rigged. The odds are stacked. In fact every bit of evidence points to the protocols of the learned blah blah of fishpaste being implemented without consensus. 

And yes it's all a lot of illusion, but it's making everything really horrible. And admittedly there's nothing like a shared enemy or threat that can bring a group of people together. But with the barrage of overriding BS, glittery snake eyes and mermaid tails etc. Do we really stand a chance? The next things like nanotechnology and integrated digital life fills me with utter dread but the young just lap it up.

So I think it's fairly safe to say that we don't have a choice, we are excluded from involvement, we are too psychometrically compassionate to be included - we are as Mr McKenna so eloquently put it, being led by the least if us,

So yeah we could all collectively decide if that's the way Earth is heading, might as well complete our stuff here and when we die we'll move souls on to somewhere else that's not been invaded. Consciousness is free to go where it chooses. But if the strong leave, who do we leave behind and for how long?
And secondly apart from the psychos in charge, it's really a lovely planet, why should we be pushed out? When is the wheel going to turn on the archons? 

There is a reason we have both mind and consciousness. In I, Pet Goat II there's an illustration on the wall where the brain hemispheres have been split apart - exactly what we have here.

Ang x

Ps if you're going to quote me, please don't change the spelling of my name thanks.

[Tony]

I am a biscuit – I'll explain.

For a biscuit to think it exists, it needs ingredients - flour, water, sugar, butter - and cooking.
Every thing is made up of ingredients, just like a biscuit, and all the compents have to be there in order for it to exist.

“I” is made up of ingredients.

Here I will have to put on a Buddhist hat.
What we are is pure awareness - sacred open space, with no embellishments - no ingredients, but just pure being. We can give this any name that suits you!

One day, this pure open sacred space, this pure awareness, got attracted to something – it got attracted to being aware! It had a feeling of existence, of personal existence, and it forgot pure being.

This incident (which happens every moment now!) initiated the filling of this open space with concepts. To hold the whole thing together, we needed ingredients (what are called the five aggregates) - form, feeling, perception, karmic formation and consciousness.
These are the ingredients to create a sentient being.

So a sentient being is created out of ignorance (ignorance of their true nature) and that sentient being just went on creating, and enjoying its creation...until it finds that that creation is the very cause of its suffering. This creation has to be maintained and defended, giving rise to aggression and hatred and all the other negative emotions.

However... once we recognise our true nature, there is no reason not to enjoy the biscuit! Then the benefit of others becomes the reason to create.

Each moment is a joyous, smiling opportunity to re-establish our true nature. Our only problem now is, in having made the biscuit in the kitchen, we have to clean up all the residue. That cleaning up and the putting everything away is the process of eliminating karma (it is that which is still holding the biscuit together).

When we finally put everything away, and no more biscuits can be made, we free to do whatever we choose!

However...the end of the 'biscuit business' brings the arising of unconditional love...so what are you going to do with that?!


Now doesn't that just take the biscuit?
Tony




(You cannot capture open space, but you can muck around with the ingredients! )

[greybeard]

Just say, for argument sake, that the soul can seem to be captured.
I would love to know where the persons mind set -- belief system was prior to this capture.

Ignorance is bliss--- Can a person who is unaware that they have a soul-- therefore not in any fear of it being captured-- have this momentous thing happen?
Does this only happen to people who have a belief system that says they can loose their soul?
Bit like being possessed by the devil and then needing exorcism.

chris

Chris

[greybeard]

Ramana translation of the Atma Sakshatkara

52. When a pot is carried, though the space within the pot,
Is conceived of as carried,
Is it not solely the pot that is carried?
The Self too. like Space, remains motionless.

53. When the pot breaks, the space in the pot
Merges with the great Space.
When the inert body passes away, the Self, seemingly in the body,
Becomes immediately one with the Supreme Self.

54 Thus the Authority (behind creation) the omniscient Lord
Spoke on that occasion with finality.
One who is liberated, free from bondage
Realises omni-presence and endless absolute Awareness.


That text is many thousand years old--- long before Christ or the Buddha.
To be clear you are that space, that formless awareness, temporarily seeming to be confined within a body.
You are eternal.
Your are That I am.

Found in the collected works of Ramana Maharshi page 168

Chris

[Student_Energy_Healer]

I enjoy reading this particular thread! All these different viewpoints/beliefs are so interesting!

I received an email a couple of days ago titled "Do Your Beliefs Make You Victor or Victim?" by Nanci Danison, a Near-Death-Experiencer:


------------------------------------

Do Your Beliefs Make You Victor or Victim?

The only frightening aspect of my afterlife visit was learning that our personal beliefs literally shape our reality. I was terrified that re-entering my body would restore the beliefs I had before I died. And I now realized my old religion was scary.

I learned in the afterlife that humans believe that life happens TO them. They generally feel unable to control life, and therefore see themselves as victims of circumstances. Oftentimes they blame God/Source for allowing evil into their lives. These feelings are natural. They are part of human nature. There is nothing wrong with perceiving yourself as a victim of bad luck and others' wrongful conduct, or even blaming Source for your miseries as though it scripted your every moment. We enter into human bodies in order to experience human life, including its sense of victimhood. However, if you are unhappy with being a victim, you might want to reconsider your belief that you are nothing more than the body you inhabit.

You can enlighten yourself and change your beliefs about life. You may think you cannot change your beliefs because "that's just who you are." Well, didn't you once believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy? Didn't you once believe being an adult would be fun? That hard work would always be rewarded? That life was fair? Do you still hold these beliefs?

You CAN learn and believe that you are actually a powerful spiritual personality--one of Source's many beloved mental characters--merely inhabiting a human body. You can accept that as part of Source you have the ability to, and do unconsciously, manifest what you experience as physical reality. And you can awaken to the realization that you chose this life for its challenges. Experienced human-life incarnates craft the most difficult lives because they seek greater and more demanding challenges. You chose this life while you were in your full-power state in the afterlife, knowing that human life isn't real. You WANT to see how you will react to pain, hardship, the death of loved ones, and tragedies of all types this time around. You want to see whether you are able to bring more spiritual powers to bear this time and rise above feeling like a victim. Participating in human life for a Source-character is like XBox gaming in Call of Duty, Black Ops II for a human. Testing yourself against fearsome odds is the goal, not individual events, the score, or winning or losing. Facing all hardships. Taking on all comers. Looking fear, disease, poverty, loss and death squarely in the face and being able to say to ourselves: "I did it. I lived it." During my life review, my Light Being friends were proud of me just for choosing to become human. Just for taking on the challenge! They considered me a great success, even though I felt like I had failed in many respects.

We get to control how our life progresses by choosing our beliefs about who we are: victor in the rough-and-tumble and always challenging game of human life? Or victim of bad luck and worse people? Victory is for those willing to believe that they are winners just for taking the exciting risk of human life and the trials it brings. Victors accept the life they have chosen, and may try to improve it through the use of conscious manifesting. Victimhood is the human animal default attitude. Either choice is fine. Source doesn't care whether its characters overcome hurdles in a way humans would deem to be successful, or merely experience them. But what do you want for yourself this life?

Thank you for being open to the messages I have returned from the afterlife to share.

Nanci

------------------------------------


I personally "believe" that all viewpoints in this thread are relevant and important to each individual.

I especially loved this email because she used the "Call of Duty Black Ops II" video gaming analogy.... I'm a total video gaming nut and have pre-ordered this game months ago which includes all extras such as more map layouts, increased game difficulty and other surprise gaming content! I do love challenges!

Peace, Love & Blessings to you all!

Maxine

[Prodigal Son]

From what I have learned studying Kabbalah and other metaphysical sciences, with each ascending "dimension" or "octave" the amount of laws governing existence gets cut in half. That would mean, if I understand it correctly, that evil would also exist in the higher dimensions. And what is evil? It seems that evil is anything selfish that steals from others. I read an excellent book called "Nano: Technology of Mind Over Matter" by Kabbalist Rav Berg that shows how this stealing and its opposite, benevolence, goes on at the molecular level, and how our actions, attitudes and thoughts can have an effect on matter. It also explains how the dimensions above the physical are thought (mental) and above that the levels are emotional. However they all interact with each other in ways that I do not yet fully comprehend.

I guess what I'm saying is that in the 4th and 5th dimension we can also succumb to evil, and it would make sense to me that souls can be captured, but nothing is permanent. There is an evolutionary dialectic/ apotheosis/ teleology going on at every level and all of it is evolving upwards towards source. On this level of Malkuth it goes in cycles. I would imagine that in higher levels outside space and time it would be different. This is why the metaphysical sciences say that the greatest opportunity for soul growth is on the lowest plane in which we currently "live" or are "plugged into". But if there is a God, nothing is permanent and nothing remains stagnant. The True God is a God of Becoming. We are all becoming, and no one can stop the process.

[9eagle9]

Can you free yourself from the belief of the soul?

What is fairly evidential , if one knows all that has been uncovered and brought forward for us to know over millennium….is the soul and the spirit are not the same thing.

Did you all miss that?

Start with Solar worship.

Soul-ar worship.

It appears we FINALLY have a break in our dogma. Which is good if one is not emotionally attached to that construct in such a rigid way as to oppose any other expression on the subject. A break in the matrix. A break in the matrix means an escape from the cell.

Consider this: On any given day one observes the relentless chatter about how the soul is unconditional?

Right? The soul is un-conditonable. A day will not go by that you will not hear that.

But then consider this. The next we have an ongoing discussion on how the soul is maimed, implanted, captured and mangled—conditions.
Right now would be a good time to decide how that is possible? To opposing beliefs colliding like that is going to create….what?

Confusion?

To employe critical thinking skills to see the un-sanity of how something can be conditioned and unconditonable at the same time. How is that contradiction in terms possible-- that the soul is unconditional and the also conditional? Is there two different parts to the soul? . Or are we confusing two different facets of ourselves?

How we can declare the soul is unconditional but then again carry the burden of all those conditions?

That is the sort of un-sane thinking instilled in us from our oppressors, the last remnant of Christian and Judaic programming haunting the psyche. The last remnants of corrupted solar (soul-ar) worship haunting our psyche. This is a good time to clear that. Since you have it on the table here, if you CAN, and there is no reason why you cannot, sweep the crumbs away.

Much of what we ‘know’ about the soul is what has been fed to us by major religions which used this vague aspect of ourselves to lead us through the nose . Right there is the best reason not to trust it. They created the soul to use it against you. The very reason not to trust anything about the soul?

The concept was created by those who wanted to own your soul. Like……the Vatican? As just one example. Or how about our corporate greed meisters who created the 2.0 version of the soul called the Strawman.

(Lets create a person(ality) as a corporate (separate) entity, arrange their names in ALL CAPS and make them believe that strawman (soul)is themselves. In that way we can own everything they have through UCC (religious)law)

And so they did. They have to. Because they can’t own your spirit. What else do they have left to own, and the only way they can own your soul is if you continue perpetrating the notion unto yourself that the soul and the spirit is the same thing. Let it go. After all it’s just a word. Like the strawman it is not you. It was pretty easy to realize that wasn’t it?

The SOUL has been their singular obsessed focus down through millennia because it was inherent to their agenda. (OWN EVERYTHING) Now their obsession has become ours. You want to own that which they have created?

Basically we found ourselves arguing over something that doesn’t exist in a profound, meaningful, singular eternal sense unless one is that much of a believer in solar worship.

Much as we’ve had an artificial mind imposed on us, we’ve had a soul imposed on us with it. We ‘think’ we have a soul because we’ve been told we do. By whom? By major religions. And minor. Where did THEY come from?

Yes.

And…WE STILL TRUST WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY??

Language programming, we see it happening today, confusing one word for the other. Soul / Spirit.

It’s a compromise right? But is only a compromise between two words. We think compromise is an agreeable word. It is. It’s a word that leads to agreements which are conditions. We compromise ourselves in being compromising people. They compromised us with confusing the soul and spirit and we agreed to it. They compromised us into thinking our strawman was us didn’t they?

Apparently we are still agreeing to it. Stop continuing to make agreements with those who implanted and mangled you in the first place. Stop agreeing to the implanting.

We compromised ourselves by believing the soul and the spirit to be the same thing. Because that is what THEY told us and you are still believing it! STILL believing it when you KNOW you can’t believe a word that they say!

Soul- from the word Sol. Sun. Derived from pre –Christian times when most of the limited world’s population was engaged in the sort of Solar Worship that Christianity corrupted and perverted and assumed so it could use the sol, the soul, to fulfill it’s agenda. .What is Christianity’s biggest focus. The soul. Another version of The Son of God versus the Sun of God. How many versions of this Matrix upload are we going to keep accepting into our servers and expect something to change.

The soul is an aspect of consciousness, like the mental body, the emotional body, ego. Because you were told that is your living spirit you’ve come to believe that. People still believe that the prison of consciousness is their soul, their spirit, yet should be expanded on. Make the prison bigger.

That is what you think. It is not what you know. So you look at your soul not realizing it is just another aspect of a damaged consciousness and think the soul is damaged as well. Naturally, like any function of consciousness it can be bent, fold, mangled, implanted, and maimed. You keep trying to fix the alternator by banging on the regulator because the two seem to look alike but have entirely different functions. And circumstances.

The spirit however remains uncorrupted. Our very continued existence is evidence of that. The fact that you are here arguing over something that doesn’t ‘really’ exist is not only an expression of your un-sane state but also…..

…also evidence that you have enough wherewithal left to be here in the first place. Thank your spirit for that.

Every aspect of ourselves has been programmed into un-sanity yet we manage to stagger along barely functional with our emotional, mental process on lockdown for millennia but for some mysterious reason we are still here, if not intact and whole, at least partially functioning in our fragmentation. Still grasping for the key out of our prison.

HOW are you doing that? If the soul is in lockdown, the consciousness, the emotional body, the mental body, the physical body all in lockdown how is that even possible we are still here to see that little light at the end of the tunnel?

Because there yet remains an uncorrupted part of ourselves. You are your own evidence of that. In dismissing that evidence you are dismissing yourself, what you KNOW, in favor of what our controllers have indoctrinated us with.

We are still here staggering along …..

Because there something beyond consciousness, and beyond soul, that remains inviolate. They have led you to believe that consciousness and all its varied facets, is the soul. It was not so very hard to take that a step further and lead you to believe the soul was the spirit. Nor was it very hard to make them believe your corporate body had something to do with you as human.

Where do you think they got the idea for the strawman? Because they can never do anything differently!

And we perpetrate that programming. We are now self-policing. They had to create a self policing body of entities because there are so few of them, and so many of us. "Keep your brother's soul".

Come on people, they spell this all right out for you to see. Why are you NOT seeing it?


People do not have the wherewithal to know their expressive facets in their proper perspective or function yet feel they know all the ins and outs of the soul. Yes of course. That’s you feel that because it is a feeling, it is however not critical thinking. We don’t use critical thinking because ‘critical’ is a dirty word these days. It's been confused for judgement like soul has been confused for spirit.

To this day, in spite of all our opportunities to ‘know thyself’ people confuse the emotional body with the mental body, somehow in their unsanity perceiving that the emotional body has reason and thought when by the very virtue of the word it is an emotional body . We don’t understand that very basic function yet feel that we understand enough to think the soul is somehow the spirit?

The function of the emotional body is to experience emotions, not think. That is why we have mental bodies, to perform the function of thought. The mental body does not have emotions and the emotional body doesn’t feel. Yet we confuse the two all the time. IN the middle of a conversation where the mental body is engaged in thought and discourse the emotional body comes erupting up in a reactionary state based only on how it feels (not thinks) about the topic of discourse.

Happens all the time. The emotional body is in a constantly reactive state overwhelming the mental body and evidence of that will be provided shortly .

We don’t know that very basic premise about ourselves yet we insist that know emphatically and categorically about a facet about ourselves that permeates both ?
By all means fix that maimed, spindled, implanted, supplanted, overwhelmed facets of yourself. Then you will see, know, feel and think the difference between the soul and the spirit.

You want evidence?

You are your own evidence. Your very existence after being smothered for millennia should suffice as evidence that there is something beyond the maimed implanted soul that keeps us staggering along when all other expressive facets of ourselves have been bound and gagged.

If not for the spirit you wouldn’t be here now to argue about what really doesn’t exist but as yet another construct implanted in your psyche since time out of mind. No pun intended. Basically arguing over shared and collective programming that has been hammered into us for millennia.
More importantly. This is a matter that our ‘oppressors’ the ones who instigated this agenda, are not real clear on. They too have fallen for the program of the soul.

Our power lies in the fact that we COULD be very clear on it.

We COULD. Certainly nothing is preventing us from selling our souls that they gave unto us to control us with.

We COULD. But will we? How firmly fixed on the belief of the soul are you fixated on? Can you set aside your emotional body long enough to think this through with critical thinking skills? It’s all out there, in the plain sight how they instilled this in us. Can you look at it? Is your self-identity that firmly engrained in the notion that the soul is most illuminated part of you?

If so….Why would you be chasing your higher expression if all you will meet is another folded, implanted expression of yourself? What good will that do? Another maimed expression of yourself is going to get you out of the prison where the other maimed expressions dwell at?

If the soul is the highest expression of ourselves how do you reasonably expect with your faulty consciousness to ‘fix’ it when one cannot clear their own consciousness? Or differentiate between its varied facets. How can you fix the soul if you cannot even question the fragility of its existence, the artificial source of its existence?

Can you honestly examine this without flying into an emotional body reaction to overwhelm the critical thinking skills that will, and I promise you this, WILL reveal to you a great deception concerning the soul. Will you shut the whole notion down in favor of a belief that they instilled in us millenniums ago?

[Tarka the Duck]

:cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:
:love::love::love:
:kiss:

Kathie

[Tony]

Can you free yourself from the belief of the soul?

What is fairly evidential , if one knows all that has been uncovered and brought forward for us to know over millennium….is the soul and the spirit are not the same thing.

Did you all miss that?

Start with Solar worship.

Soul-ar worship.

It appears we FINALLY have a break in our dogma. Which is good if one is not emotionally attached to that construct in such a rigid way as to oppose any other expression on the subject. A break in the matrix. A break in the matrix means an escape from the cell.

Consider this: On any given day one observes the relentless chatter about how the soul is unconditional?

Right? The soul is un-conditonable. A day will not go by that you will not hear that.

But then consider this. The next we have an ongoing discussion on how the soul is maimed, implanted, captured and mangled—conditions.
Right now would be a good time to decide how that is possible? To opposing beliefs colliding like that is going to create….what?

Confusion?

To employe critical thinking skills to see the un-sanity of how something can be conditioned and unconditonable at the same time. How is that contradiction in terms possible-- that the soul is unconditional and the also conditional? Is there two different parts to the soul? . Or are we confusing two different facets of ourselves?

How we can declare the soul is unconditional but then again carry the burden of all those conditions?

That is the sort of un-sane thinking instilled in us from our oppressors, the last remnant of Christian and Judaic programming haunting the psyche. The last remnants of corrupted solar (soul-ar) worship haunting our psyche. This is a good time to clear that. Since you have it on the table here, if you CAN, and there is no reason why you cannot, sweep the crumbs away.

Much of what we ‘know’ about the soul is what has been fed to us by major religions which used this vague aspect of ourselves to lead us through the nose . Right there is the best reason not to trust it. They created the soul to use it against you. The very reason not to trust anything about the soul?

The concept was created by those who wanted to own your soul. Like……the Vatican? As just one example. Or how about our corporate greed meisters who created the 2.0 version of the soul called the Strawman.

(Lets create a person(ality) as a corporate (separate) entity, arrange their names in ALL CAPS and make them believe that strawman (soul)is themselves. In that way we can own everything they have through UCC (religious)law)

And so they did. They have to. Because they can’t own your spirit. What else do they have left to own, and the only way they can own your soul is if you continue perpetrating the notion unto yourself that the soul and the spirit is the same thing. Let it go. After all it’s just a word. Like the strawman it is not you. It was pretty easy to realize that wasn’t it?

The SOUL has been their singular obsessed focus down through millennia because it was inherent to their agenda. (OWN EVERYTHING) Now their obsession has become ours. You want to own that which they have created?

Basically we found ourselves arguing over something that doesn’t exist in a profound, meaningful, singular eternal sense unless one is that much of a believer in solar worship.

Much as we’ve had an artificial mind imposed on us, we’ve had a soul imposed on us with it. We ‘think’ we have a soul because we’ve been told we do. By whom? By major religions. And minor. Where did THEY come from?

Yes.

And…WE STILL TRUST WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY??

Language programming, we see it happening today, confusing one word for the other. Soul / Spirit.

It’s a compromise right? But is only a compromise between two words. We think compromise is an agreeable word. It is. It’s a word that leads to agreements which are conditions. We compromise ourselves in being compromising people. They compromised us with confusing the soul and spirit and we agreed to it. They compromised us into thinking our strawman was us didn’t they?

Apparently we are still agreeing to it. Stop continuing to make agreements with those who implanted and mangled you in the first place. Stop agreeing to the implanting.

We compromised ourselves by believing the soul and the spirit to be the same thing. Because that is what THEY told us and you are still believing it! STILL believing it when you KNOW you can’t believe a word that they say!

Soul- from the word Sol. Sun. Derived from pre –Christian times when most of the limited world’s population was engaged in the sort of Solar Worship that Christianity corrupted and perverted and assumed so it could use the sol, the soul, to fulfill it’s agenda. .What is Christianity’s biggest focus. The soul. Another version of The Son of God versus the Sun of God. How many versions of this Matrix upload are we going to keep accepting into our servers and expect something to change.

The soul is an aspect of consciousness, like the mental body, the emotional body, ego. Because you were told that is your living spirit you’ve come to believe that. People still believe that the prison of consciousness is their soul, their spirit, yet should be expanded on. Make the prison bigger.

That is what you think. It is not what you know. So you look at your soul not realizing it is just another aspect of a damaged consciousness and think the soul is damaged as well. Naturally, like any function of consciousness it can be bent, fold, mangled, implanted, and maimed. You keep trying to fix the alternator by banging on the regulator because the two seem to look alike but have entirely different functions. And circumstances.

The spirit however remains uncorrupted. Our very continued existence is evidence of that. The fact that you are here arguing over something that doesn’t ‘really’ exist is not only an expression of your un-sane state but also…..

…also evidence that you have enough wherewithal left to be here in the first place. Thank your spirit for that.

Every aspect of ourselves has been programmed into un-sanity yet we manage to stagger along barely functional with our emotional, mental process on lockdown for millennia but for some mysterious reason we are still here, if not intact and whole, at least partially functioning in our fragmentation. Still grasping for the key out of our prison.

HOW are you doing that? If the soul is in lockdown, the consciousness, the emotional body, the mental body, the physical body all in lockdown how is that even possible we are still here to see that little light at the end of the tunnel?

Because there yet remains an uncorrupted part of ourselves. You are your own evidence of that. In dismissing that evidence you are dismissing yourself, what you KNOW, in favor of what our controllers have indoctrinated us with.

We are still here staggering along …..

Because there something beyond consciousness, and beyond soul, that remains inviolate. They have led you to believe that consciousness and all its varied facets, is the soul. It was not so very hard to take that a step further and lead you to believe the soul was the spirit. Nor was it very hard to make them believe your corporate body had something to do with you as human.

Where do you think they got the idea for the strawman? Because they can never do anything differently!

And we perpetrate that programming. We are now self-policing. They had to create a self policing body of entities because there are so few of them, and so many of us. "Keep your brother's soul".

Come on people, they spell this all right out for you to see. Why are you NOT seeing it?


People do not have the wherewithal to know their expressive facets in their proper perspective or function yet feel they know all the ins and outs of the soul. Yes of course. That’s you feel that because it is a feeling, it is however not critical thinking. We don’t use critical thinking because ‘critical’ is a dirty word these days. It's been confused for judgement like soul has been confused for spirit.

To this day, in spite of all our opportunities to ‘know thyself’ people confuse the emotional body with the mental body, somehow in their unsanity perceiving that the emotional body has reason and thought when by the very virtue of the word it is an emotional body . We don’t understand that very basic function yet feel that we understand enough to think the soul is somehow the spirit?

The function of the emotional body is to experience emotions, not think. That is why we have mental bodies, to perform the function of thought. The mental body does not have emotions and the emotional body doesn’t feel. Yet we confuse the two all the time. IN the middle of a conversation where the mental body is engaged in thought and discourse the emotional body comes erupting up in a reactionary state based only on how it feels (not thinks) about the topic of discourse.

Happens all the time. The emotional body is in a constantly reactive state overwhelming the mental body and evidence of that will be provided shortly .

We don’t know that very basic premise about ourselves yet we insist that know emphatically and categorically about a facet about ourselves that permeates both ?
By all means fix that maimed, spindled, implanted, supplanted, overwhelmed facets of yourself. Then you will see, know, feel and think the difference between the soul and the spirit.

You want evidence?

You are your own evidence. Your very existence after being smothered for millennia should suffice as evidence that there is something beyond the maimed implanted soul that keeps us staggering along when all other expressive facets of ourselves have been bound and gagged.

If not for the spirit you wouldn’t be here now to argue about what really doesn’t exist but as yet another construct implanted in your psyche since time out of mind. No pun intended. Basically arguing over shared and collective programming that has been hammered into us for millennia.
More importantly. This is a matter that our ‘oppressors’ the ones who instigated this agenda, are not real clear on. They too have fallen for the program of the soul.

Our power lies in the fact that we COULD be very clear on it.

We COULD. Certainly nothing is preventing us from selling our souls that they gave unto us to control us with.

We COULD. But will we? How firmly fixed on the belief of the soul are you fixated on? Can you set aside your emotional body long enough to think this through with critical thinking skills? It’s all out there, in the plain sight how they instilled this in us. Can you look at it? Is your self-identity that firmly engrained in the notion that the soul is most illuminated part of you?

If so….Why would you be chasing your higher expression if all you will meet is another folded, implanted expression of yourself? What good will that do? Another maimed expression of yourself is going to get you out of the prison where the other maimed expressions dwell at?

If the soul is the highest expression of ourselves how do you reasonably expect with your faulty consciousness to ‘fix’ it when one cannot clear their own consciousness? Or differentiate between its varied facets. How can you fix the soul if you cannot even question the fragility of its existence, the artificial source of its existence?

Can you honestly examine this without flying into an emotional body reaction to overwhelm the critical thinking skills that will, and I promise you this, WILL reveal to you a great deception concerning the soul. Will you shut the whole notion down in favor of a belief that they instilled in us millenniums ago?



9eagle9, it's great to see you back!

Tony

[Tony]

Ramana translation of the Atma Sakshatkara

52. When a pot is carried, though the space within the pot,
Is conceived of as carried,
Is it not solely the pot that is carried?
The Self too. like Space, remains motionless.

53. When the pot breaks, the space in the pot
Merges with the great Space.
When the inert body passes away, the Self, seemingly in the body,
Becomes immediately one with the Supreme Self.

54 Thus the Authority (behind creation) the omniscient Lord
Spoke on that occasion with finality.
One who is liberated, free from bondage
Realises omni-presence and endless absolute Awareness.


That text is many thousand years old--- long before Christ or the Buddha.
To be clear you are that space, that formless awareness, temporarily seeming to be confined within a body.
You are eternal.
Your are That I am.

Found in the collected works of Ramana Maharshi page 168

Chris







Break the pot, and space within is inseparable with the space without.
Meanwhile we bang our pots together.

[Zelig]

For some years now, I've been increasingly suspicious of there being some form of pre-written storyline that my life is following. I'd notice unlikely similarities between occurrences in my world and something I'd seen somewhere else or in someone else's life. I'd always thought that any similarity between my actions and habits, and those of my parents, could be easily explained away as being genetic or the influence of my childhood environment. Maybe though, it's more due to my lack of imagination or adventure when it comes to life choices. Sometimes, the similarities are so implausible that I become suspicious of someone pranking me. Even television and movie plots have begun appearing in real life situations and news stories. It's been said that we are capable of steering our lives to some extent, and that our thoughts and desires can be made manifest by utilizing some sort of conscious will. If so, and if the steadily flowing stream of our life's experiences is merely a projection created by our own minds, is it possible that we occasionally run out of fresh material and fill the gaps with recycled bits and pieces from our past or from scenarios co-opted from other sources? Maybe the only novelties that we experience - the unexpected twists and turns of our lives - are just instances where our story lines intersect with those of others, and one or both have their trajectories altered in some way, possibly drastically.

Did anyone not think it odd that, coming from the U.S. government, there was an abundance of zombie references and even a seemingly tongue-in-cheek guide as to how to survive a zombie attack? Was there some connection to the bizarre occurrences shortly thereafter, of people doing things you'd expect to see in a zombie movie? Or how about the purported war against aliens that may or may not be ongoing in the Pacific Ocean and its more than striking similarity to the movie Battleship? The television series Last Resort might also be the script for the recently announced cases of senior military officers being relieved of duty. It has been said that television, movies, music, etc all reflect the social moods, values and hopes of their era but maybe there is a more direct connection. If our consciousness is connected somehow on a large scale, perhaps globally, is it not possible that we occasionally plagiarize material that we see others enjoying or that we find compelling in some way?

In my personal life, I am routinely bewildered by such coincidences. My current relationship seems to be a mirror of the previous one wherein I am being shown, through my girlfriend's behaviours, how I behaved toward my ex-wife. It's all very enlightening and humbling, but at the same time absurdly surreal. The only thing that I am tentatively certain of is that life is very, very weird.

[Tony]

For some years now, I've been increasingly suspicious of there being some form of pre-written storyline that my life is following. I'd notice unlikely similarities between occurrences in my world and something I'd seen somewhere else or in someone else's life. I'd always thought that any similarity between my actions and habits, and those of my parents, could be easily explained away as being genetic or the influence of my childhood environment. Maybe though, it's more due to my lack of imagination or adventure when it comes to life choices. Sometimes, the similarities are so implausible that I become suspicious of someone pranking me. Even television and movie plots have begun appearing in real life situations and news stories. It's been said that we are capable of steering our lives to some extent, and that our thoughts and desires can be made manifest by utilizing some sort of conscious will. If so, and if the steadily flowing stream of our life's experiences is merely a projection created by our own minds, is it possible that we occasionally run out of fresh material and fill the gaps with recycled bits and pieces from our past or from scenarios co-opted from other sources? Maybe the only novelties that we experience - the unexpected twists and turns of our lives - are just instances where our story lines intersect with those of others, and one or both have their trajectories altered in some way, possibly drastically.

Did anyone not think it odd that, coming from the U.S. government, there was an abundance of zombie references and even a seemingly tongue-in-cheek guide as to how to survive a zombie attack? Was there some connection to the bizarre occurrences shortly thereafter, of people doing things you'd expect to see in a zombie movie? Or how about the purported war against aliens that may or may not be ongoing in the Pacific Ocean and its more than striking similarity to the movie Battleship? The television series Last Resort might also be the script for the recently announced cases of senior military officers being relieved of duty. It has been said that television, movies, music, etc all reflect the social moods, values and hopes of their era but maybe there is a more direct connection. If our consciousness is connected somehow on a large scale, perhaps globally, is it not possible that we occasionally plagiarize material that we see others enjoying or that we find compelling in some way?

In my personal life, I am routinely bewildered by such coincidences. My current relationship seems to be a mirror of the previous one wherein I am being shown, through my girlfriend's behaviours, how I behaved toward my ex-wife. It's all very enlightening and humbling, but at the same time absurdly surreal. The only thing that I am tentatively certain of is that life is very, very weird.






Hello Zelig,

It does seem we are being primed to expect something coming. Like these expected predictions, they tend to fizzle out, but seem to also leave a sticky residue in the mind. That is neuro linguistic programming, mucking around with the ingredients in consciousness.

All appearance in the mind come to pass, like fleeting fantasies...know thyself as pure awareness.

When we can cut out the fantasies - we increase our intelligence.




yours,
Tony

[binemaya]

hey pie,
the soul I feel is like a spark of infinite consciousness, eternal & true, it cannot be captured, this is just an illusion, a layer of pain, we could also welcome this opportunity ..... :boink: ;-),
love unconditionally,
maia

[Zelig]

Hello Zelig,

It does seem we are being primed to expect something coming. Like these expected predictions, they tend to fizzle out, but seem to also leave a sticky residue in the mind. That is neuro linguistic programming, mucking around with the ingredients in consciousness.

All appearance in the mind come to pass, like fleeting fantasies...know thyself as pure awareness.

When we can cut out the fantasies - we increase our intelligence.




yours,
Tony

The fantasies though, seem to comprise a large portion of modern life. I'm in no way disagreeing with you - just lamenting the difficulty of wading through it all without getting wet. When I inventory my life's highlights, I can see a distinct trend. The majority of my most significant experiences were brought about by the seemingly chance intersections with other peoples' paths. The collisions tended to temporarily take control away from my thinking and leave me as little more than an observing passenger, marvelling at the newly revealed possiblities. Sprinkled about in the intervening doldrums, were occasional, magical moments wherein I felt bliss. The reason, I believe, that I've been unable to conjure those feelings at will is that I've over-thought the situations and looked for logical, mechanical explanations. It makes sense to me now that my mind may not be the good friend that I'd always considered it to be. I've built such a co-dependant relationship with it though, that establishing boundaries is difficult. I wish we could resolve our differences amicably but it appears as though my mind is going to be a dink about this and I may require a restra...... (my typing was interrupted by a phonecall that consisted of silence and then a click- I think my own mind just crank-called me) ......restraining order.

[Hervé]

So...?

Can the "soul" be captured?

Well, yes. (see post # 48 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51678-Can-a-soul-be-captured&p=579267&viewfull=1#post579267))

The real question that's the crux of the matter is:



Can YOU be also captured via your "soul?"


The answer is... yes, unfortunately.

How come?

It's all a matter of gradients which spectrum is reflected by the various posts, opinions, theories and hypotheses expressed in this thread.

It has to do with the reason why a "problem" cannot be solved at the level it is experienced but from the level -- or levels -- above.

Here is how it works and it also has to do with resonance and harmonics:

Let's start from the top level, differently referred to as "god," the "all there is," the "out of time and space," the "infinite eternal consciousness of now," etc...

Well, that 'non-thing" which doesn't have dimensions nor location --hence outside of "space" and therefore outside of time -- creates a space in which "experience" can be perceived.

Right there is the very glitch that allows for entrapment because that created "space" – in order to be perceived -- is made of the vibratory frequencies and qualities of the "non-thing" which created it and therefore can be manipulated via those frequencies and qualities because they are intrinsic and inherent parts and parcels of "it," that outside of space, non-located "non-thing."

Accordingly, no matter how many densities down the line and down to 3D, the resonance and harmonic frequencies of that "non-thing" can be traced back and manipulated to get back at that particular "non-thing."

Another way of putting it is that the various "creations," hence "possessions," of that "non-thing" resonate to "it."

Of course, needless to say, this works for emotional, mental, aetheric and all sorts of imaginable subtle bodies as well as all their constructs, programs, shortcomings, and all sorts of imaginable machineries accompanying these creations all through the various densities (inaccurately labeled "dimensions").

Unfortunately, the entrapments via the harmonic frequencies work better on STOs than on STSs...

"Geeez! Look at what they are doing to that body of mine! Let's go and help it... Whack!"

[FrankoL]

I am sure that the souls are trapped big time. In many dimensions. Energy is cultivated to fuel the "machine". Karma is helping it out. Most probably you will never escape, because you don't remember and the truth is hard to grasp.

Even when getting glimpses of true reality your life is about to expire. And yes, allover again...to infinity. From trip to another.

The body is made to forget and to be influenced. Not by chance. Night is the right time.

You don't even know who you are, not to open the issue about relationships.

OP you are so far from breaking free. Delusion is the biggest trap. I find the movie "What Dreams May Come" worth watching.

[modwiz]

Can you free yourself from the belief of the soul?


And…WE STILL TRUST WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY??

Language programming, we see it happening today, confusing one word for the other. Soul / Spirit.

It’s a compromise right? But is only a compromise between two words. We think compromise is an agreeable word. It is. It’s a word that leads to agreements which are conditions. We compromise ourselves in being compromising people. They compromised us with confusing the soul and spirit and we agreed to it. They compromised us into thinking our strawman was us didn’t they?


The soul is an aspect of consciousness, like the mental body, the emotional body, ego. Because you were told that is your living spirit you’ve come to believe that. People still believe that the prison of consciousness is their soul, their spirit, yet should be expanded on. Make the prison bigger.


The spirit however remains uncorrupted. Our very continued existence is evidence of that. The fact that you are here arguing over something that doesn’t ‘really’ exist is not only an expression of your un-sane state but also…..

…also evidence that you have enough wherewithal left to be here in the first place. Thank your spirit for that.


HOW are you doing that? If the soul is in lockdown, the consciousness, the emotional body, the mental body, the physical body all in lockdown how is that even possible we are still here to see that little light at the end of the tunnel?

Because there yet remains an uncorrupted part of ourselves. You are your own evidence of that. In dismissing that evidence you are dismissing yourself, what you KNOW, in favor of what our controllers have indoctrinated us with.



Because there something beyond consciousness, and beyond soul, that remains inviolate. They have led you to believe that consciousness and all its varied facets, is the soul. It was not so very hard to take that a step further and lead you to believe the soul was the spirit. Nor was it very hard to make them believe your corporate body had something to do with you as human.

And we perpetrate that programming. We are now self-policing. They had to create a self policing body of entities because there are so few of them, and so many of us. "Keep your brother's soul".

To this day, in spite of all our opportunities to ‘know thyself’ people confuse the emotional body with the mental body, somehow in their unsanity perceiving that the emotional body has reason and thought when by the very virtue of the word it is an emotional body . We don’t understand that very basic function yet feel that we understand enough to think the soul is somehow the spirit?

The function of the emotional body is to experience emotions, not think. That is why we have mental bodies, to perform the function of thought. The mental body does not have emotions and the mental body doesn’t feel. Yet we confuse the two all the time. IN the middle of a conversation where the mental body is engaged in thought and discourse the emotional body comes erupting up in a reactionary state based only on how it feels (not thinks) about the topic of discourse.

Happens all the time. The emotional body is in a constantly reactive state overwhelming the mental body and evidence of that will be provided shortly .

We don’t know that very basic premise about ourselves yet we insist that know emphatically and categorically about a facet about ourselves that permeates both ?

Certainly nothing is preventing us from selling our souls that they gave unto us to control us with.

We COULD. But will we? How firmly fixed on the belief of the soul are you fixated on? Can you set aside your emotional body long enough to think this through with critical thinking skills? It’s all out there, in the plain sight how they instilled this in us. Can you look at it? Is your self-identity that firmly engrained in the notion that the soul is most illuminated part of you?

Can you honestly examine this without flying into an emotional body reaction to overwhelm the critical thinking skills that will, and I promise you this, WILL reveal to you a great deception concerning the soul. Will you shut the whole notion down in favor of a belief that they instilled in us millenniums ago?

A great post only a few will be able to understand because of the preponderance of emotional body dominance. I have heard many pine for 4-D existence and to be free of 3-D tedium. I wish more would actually move out of their 4-D emotional bodies and partake of the simple and functional wisdom exhibited by their 3-D dwelling physical bodies. Allow themselves to be educated how to deal with wounds......close them. Do not sulk for decades over the indignity of cause, just close them, with the scar that will remain, and move on.

Some will say, it's not that simple. Really? My physical body proves differently.

People subject their bodies to the assault and battery of elective plastic surgery all the time, money permitting. Does the physical body sulk and refuse to heal over the indignity of nothing more than a vain decision on the part of the emotional body? No, it deals with the situation, heals the assault and moves on. Our resilience is astounding. Our weak point is our emotional body. Largely enabled by other sulkers who form pity parties to console each other and perpetuate states of victim hood. :baby::hurt::Cry:

This is not to deny the pain of emotional hurt, but to point out that the physical body endures mindless insults with considerably more dignity and holds a more noble way of dealing with injury up for us to examine. Of course, it will be our underutilized mental bodies that will be called upon to examine this example.

Which means it will probably go largely ignored. Like your post. :tsk:

[Firinn]

The classical definition of a soul is synonymous with the astral being/body

In modern days the terms soul and spirit are used interchangeably by the uneducated.


This brings us to the question of a soul or true being. This is not a thing, it has no dimensions, it cannot even be said to 'exist' as we normally think of things...so it cannot be effected by anything. It is pure awareness.

a soul is not a true being or pure awareness, a spirit is

To use an analogy, the idea that the human mind is also the same thing as the human brain is employing the same type of faulty logic

Just as the mind does not have full control of the brain, the same goes for the spirit's control over the soul.

a human soul like a human brain, can be captured, contolled and even completely annihilated under certain circumstances

to my knowledge, a spirit cannot

Everyone in open society has a soul, as well as a spirit, however "your spirit" has very little to do with what people consider themselves to be as a individual.

I find the distinction made between Soul and Spirit here http://www.in5d.com/transcription-total-recall-matias-destefano.html to be worth some concideration. An extract quoted below:


Narrator: The Spirit is the Essence, sparks of God's body, his Electrons. The Spirits don't have any form, they are made of pure light. They contain all the knowledge from the Origins.

The spirits are born from what is known here as the Source, which could be described kind of like the solar plexus chakra of God. Where all things come from, the Spiritual level is a very subtle level that doesn't even have an energetic vibration.  This means it doesn't have an energetic or etheric density. It's just pure light.  This pure light expands itself throughout the Universe and when it condenses itself, it become molecules, compact energy. When it compacts itself, then matter begins to form. This matter forms itself because a chaos of densities begins to happen in the Cosmic walls that generates what's known as Chaos.

Narrator: Spirits are born with 2 main functions:
1. to make all that became dense go back to the pure light...and
2. to integrate all of the experiences of the Cosmos to understand what is already known and allowing each of them to become a new God.

 It expands and contracts, and in this expansion and contraction the spiritual essence has to make the matter subtle again to bring it back to its Source. That subtle process is what we call reincarnation.

The reincarnation process is to allow the Spirit to be in the matter and to bring the matter back into pure light. This means that we have to break the idea that matter is impure and the Spirits have to return to the source.

Matter is also pure and we, as Spirits, incarnate so the matter can become light again. This process is what was called, "DHUATER TUMTI KEI DHU URNUS ATERTI, which means, "Bring the Sky to Earth and give back the Light to the Sky". That phrase involves everything we are living. The process of reincarnation demands us to evolve because this whole process reaches the integration of all things.

So, all Souls and Spirits, actually Spirits, need to understand that everything happens in the Universe to be able to become another Universe.

All Spirits have to incarnate.  How do they do it? Through another dense energy which is known as the Soul.

Narrator: The Soul is the closest dense vehicle that Spirit has. This is composed by different energies, that's why it's dense because it's not ONLY pure light. Its body is well known as the Chakras: Base, Sacral, Plexus, Heart, Throat, Third Eye and Crown. These are the energetic glands that allow the Spirit to connect with the maximum density: Matter. Each Chakra corresponds with each gland in the physical body.

With Love
Firinn

[AriG]

Can you free yourself from the belief of the soul?

What is fairly evidential , if one knows all that has been uncovered and brought forward for us to know over millennium….is the soul and the spirit are not the same thing.

Did you all miss that?

Start with Solar worship.

Soul-ar worship.

It appears we FINALLY have a break in our dogma. Which is good if one is not emotionally attached to that construct in such a rigid way as to oppose any other expression on the subject. A break in the matrix. A break in the matrix means an escape from the cell.

Consider this: On any given day one observes the relentless chatter about how the soul is unconditional?

Right? The soul is un-conditonable. A day will not go by that you will not hear that.

But then consider this. The next we have an ongoing discussion on how the soul is maimed, implanted, captured and mangled—conditions.
Right now would be a good time to decide how that is possible? To opposing beliefs colliding like that is going to create….what?

Confusion?

To employe critical thinking skills to see the un-sanity of how something can be conditioned and unconditonable at the same time. How is that contradiction in terms possible-- that the soul is unconditional and the also conditional? Is there two different parts to the soul? . Or are we confusing two different facets of ourselves?

How we can declare the soul is unconditional but then again carry the burden of all those conditions?

That is the sort of un-sane thinking instilled in us from our oppressors, the last remnant of Christian and Judaic programming haunting the psyche. The last remnants of corrupted solar (soul-ar) worship haunting our psyche. This is a good time to clear that. Since you have it on the table here, if you CAN, and there is no reason why you cannot, sweep the crumbs away.

Much of what we ‘know’ about the soul is what has been fed to us by major religions which used this vague aspect of ourselves to lead us through the nose . Right there is the best reason not to trust it. They created the soul to use it against you. The very reason not to trust anything about the soul?

The concept was created by those who wanted to own your soul. Like……the Vatican? As just one example. Or how about our corporate greed meisters who created the 2.0 version of the soul called the Strawman.

(Lets create a person(ality) as a corporate (separate) entity, arrange their names in ALL CAPS and make them believe that strawman (soul)is themselves. In that way we can own everything they have through UCC (religious)law)

And so they did. They have to. Because they can’t own your spirit. What else do they have left to own, and the only way they can own your soul is if you continue perpetrating the notion unto yourself that the soul and the spirit is the same thing. Let it go. After all it’s just a word. Like the strawman it is not you. It was pretty easy to realize that wasn’t it?

The SOUL has been their singular obsessed focus down through millennia because it was inherent to their agenda. (OWN EVERYTHING) Now their obsession has become ours. You want to own that which they have created?

Basically we found ourselves arguing over something that doesn’t exist in a profound, meaningful, singular eternal sense unless one is that much of a believer in solar worship.

Much as we’ve had an artificial mind imposed on us, we’ve had a soul imposed on us with it. We ‘think’ we have a soul because we’ve been told we do. By whom? By major religions. And minor. Where did THEY come from?

Yes.

And…WE STILL TRUST WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY??

Language programming, we see it happening today, confusing one word for the other. Soul / Spirit.

It’s a compromise right? But is only a compromise between two words. We think compromise is an agreeable word. It is. It’s a word that leads to agreements which are conditions. We compromise ourselves in being compromising people. They compromised us with confusing the soul and spirit and we agreed to it. They compromised us into thinking our strawman was us didn’t they?

Apparently we are still agreeing to it. Stop continuing to make agreements with those who implanted and mangled you in the first place. Stop agreeing to the implanting.

We compromised ourselves by believing the soul and the spirit to be the same thing. Because that is what THEY told us and you are still believing it! STILL believing it when you KNOW you can’t believe a word that they say!

Soul- from the word Sol. Sun. Derived from pre –Christian times when most of the limited world’s population was engaged in the sort of Solar Worship that Christianity corrupted and perverted and assumed so it could use the sol, the soul, to fulfill it’s agenda. .What is Christianity’s biggest focus. The soul. Another version of The Son of God versus the Sun of God. How many versions of this Matrix upload are we going to keep accepting into our servers and expect something to change.

The soul is an aspect of consciousness, like the mental body, the emotional body, ego. Because you were told that is your living spirit you’ve come to believe that. People still believe that the prison of consciousness is their soul, their spirit, yet should be expanded on. Make the prison bigger.

That is what you think. It is not what you know. So you look at your soul not realizing it is just another aspect of a damaged consciousness and think the soul is damaged as well. Naturally, like any function of consciousness it can be bent, fold, mangled, implanted, and maimed. You keep trying to fix the alternator by banging on the regulator because the two seem to look alike but have entirely different functions. And circumstances.

The spirit however remains uncorrupted. Our very continued existence is evidence of that. The fact that you are here arguing over something that doesn’t ‘really’ exist is not only an expression of your un-sane state but also…..

…also evidence that you have enough wherewithal left to be here in the first place. Thank your spirit for that.

Every aspect of ourselves has been programmed into un-sanity yet we manage to stagger along barely functional with our emotional, mental process on lockdown for millennia but for some mysterious reason we are still here, if not intact and whole, at least partially functioning in our fragmentation. Still grasping for the key out of our prison.

HOW are you doing that? If the soul is in lockdown, the consciousness, the emotional body, the mental body, the physical body all in lockdown how is that even possible we are still here to see that little light at the end of the tunnel?

Because there yet remains an uncorrupted part of ourselves. You are your own evidence of that. In dismissing that evidence you are dismissing yourself, what you KNOW, in favor of what our controllers have indoctrinated us with.

We are still here staggering along …..

Because there something beyond consciousness, and beyond soul, that remains inviolate. They have led you to believe that consciousness and all its varied facets, is the soul. It was not so very hard to take that a step further and lead you to believe the soul was the spirit. Nor was it very hard to make them believe your corporate body had something to do with you as human.

Where do you think they got the idea for the strawman? Because they can never do anything differently!

And we perpetrate that programming. We are now self-policing. They had to create a self policing body of entities because there are so few of them, and so many of us. "Keep your brother's soul".

Come on people, they spell this all right out for you to see. Why are you NOT seeing it?


People do not have the wherewithal to know their expressive facets in their proper perspective or function yet feel they know all the ins and outs of the soul. Yes of course. That’s you feel that because it is a feeling, it is however not critical thinking. We don’t use critical thinking because ‘critical’ is a dirty word these days. It's been confused for judgement like soul has been confused for spirit.

To this day, in spite of all our opportunities to ‘know thyself’ people confuse the emotional body with the mental body, somehow in their unsanity perceiving that the emotional body has reason and thought when by the very virtue of the word it is an emotional body . We don’t understand that very basic function yet feel that we understand enough to think the soul is somehow the spirit?

The function of the emotional body is to experience emotions, not think. That is why we have mental bodies, to perform the function of thought. The mental body does not have emotions and the emotional body doesn’t feel. Yet we confuse the two all the time. IN the middle of a conversation where the mental body is engaged in thought and discourse the emotional body comes erupting up in a reactionary state based only on how it feels (not thinks) about the topic of discourse.

Happens all the time. The emotional body is in a constantly reactive state overwhelming the mental body and evidence of that will be provided shortly .

We don’t know that very basic premise about ourselves yet we insist that know emphatically and categorically about a facet about ourselves that permeates both ?
By all means fix that maimed, spindled, implanted, supplanted, overwhelmed facets of yourself. Then you will see, know, feel and think the difference between the soul and the spirit.

You want evidence?

You are your own evidence. Your very existence after being smothered for millennia should suffice as evidence that there is something beyond the maimed implanted soul that keeps us staggering along when all other expressive facets of ourselves have been bound and gagged.

If not for the spirit you wouldn’t be here now to argue about what really doesn’t exist but as yet another construct implanted in your psyche since time out of mind. No pun intended. Basically arguing over shared and collective programming that has been hammered into us for millennia.
More importantly. This is a matter that our ‘oppressors’ the ones who instigated this agenda, are not real clear on. They too have fallen for the program of the soul.

Our power lies in the fact that we COULD be very clear on it.

We COULD. Certainly nothing is preventing us from selling our souls that they gave unto us to control us with.

We COULD. But will we? How firmly fixed on the belief of the soul are you fixated on? Can you set aside your emotional body long enough to think this through with critical thinking skills? It’s all out there, in the plain sight how they instilled this in us. Can you look at it? Is your self-identity that firmly engrained in the notion that the soul is most illuminated part of you?

If so….Why would you be chasing your higher expression if all you will meet is another folded, implanted expression of yourself? What good will that do? Another maimed expression of yourself is going to get you out of the prison where the other maimed expressions dwell at?

If the soul is the highest expression of ourselves how do you reasonably expect with your faulty consciousness to ‘fix’ it when one cannot clear their own consciousness? Or differentiate between its varied facets. How can you fix the soul if you cannot even question the fragility of its existence, the artificial source of its existence?

Can you honestly examine this without flying into an emotional body reaction to overwhelm the critical thinking skills that will, and I promise you this, WILL reveal to you a great deception concerning the soul. Will you shut the whole notion down in favor of a belief that they instilled in us millenniums ago?

Very thought provoking 9eagle9. Thank you for the insight.

Allow me to ask in very simple terms - you are saying that the soul is a construct of our physical being? And the spirit is our eternal consciousness?

To what do you subscribe this philosophy? How did you arrive at your way of thinking?

I've always observed these phrases interchanged and assumed that it was a product of semantics.

[sdafnom]

One thing to clarify, there is a huge difference between captured and harmed. If these are being treated as one and the same I think there is some misconception there. To a large extent we can argue we are captured already in this limited existence rather by choice or other reason dosnt matter. But I'm going to have to stick by the fact that no ultimate harm or in fact even minute harm can come to something that is catagorically different from even the most subtle level of the material universe. In the same way that you can't teach Spanish to a rock as a crude example. These things just don't mix.

It's all about the word 'ultimate'. :)

Yes, I agree that ultimately, no harm can come to a soul. But in between the start of eternity and the end (this is a metaphor!!), a lot of bad things can happen that are not necessarily chosen by the soul.

And that depends on your definition of "bad", as well. My definition of experiencing a bad thing is something like being imprisoned, tortured, used, abused, and implanted to be something quite different from one's basic identity, for up to quadrillions of years and hundreds of universe cycles.

In the end, that soul can be fully healed and rehabilitated. I have done this myself: I've been trained in the techniques, and how to apply them. But I would personally classify that experience as "harmful". This may really be what this discussion is about.

In summary: souls/ spirits are categorically not impervious to having bad, unchosen experiences enforced on them by others with agendas that break the agreements of those taking part in "reality". It's very important to understand this.

Bill, please see if you can shine some light into this based on your knowledge and experiences:

It is my opinion that if we can understand the Soul-Consciousness connection and interaction, will clarify a lot of things.
So here is my 2 cents:

According to the Pythagorean and Orphic teachings:

The core of the soul, (or essence) has inherited within it, all the knowledge and potential powers in an inert state.
Using Consciousness (direct or individual experience) it develops and brings forth (activates) more and more of its powers.
So during this process (which might take quadrillions of years or an instant) the soul (the individual) grows more mature, expands and understand its self better as it is evolving.

But, since it has to take some form in order to experience (human body or anything else) the core goes into an inert state, to let the experience become.
Consciousness now is in control of learning, but its learning is affected by the environment and its perception of it.
Right there lies the problem: If the environment does not "let" you get in touch with your essence (core) then you are stuck in what you perceive to be real.
Then you can be easily manipulated into doing things over and over again (re-incarnate for example) until you can break free from this cycle.

DNA manipulation (for me) falls into the category of limiting your ability to perceive reality, hence the environment you perceive is what "they" want you to perceive. Same as psychic attacks in the astral plane.

At the end nothing can really "damage" the core, but it might get to to spend a long time trying to recollect what you really are...

What do you thing?

Stavros

[Hervé]

With respect to captures and enslavements... "they" know what they are doing and "they" are doing it on purpose.

"They" also know how to activate/ trigger/ restimulate past captures/ enslavements/ trainings/ programmings to their benefits:



A COVENANT WITH DEATH
http://ufo.whipnet.org/xdocs/convenant/index7.html

Part 7 - <-- (http://ufo.whipnet.org/xdocs/convenant/index6.html) | --> (http://ufo.whipnet.org/xdocs/convenant/index8.html)


The following is from a letter or a document which was released by William Cooper without comment as to it's origin or author, although the writer of the letter or document seems to have been someone "in the know", and possibly someone involved in scientific research for the government:


https://qy9cnq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pQEMDR3VZ4Udk5ILpILWGexichY7gfPUAjNumAKc84i9EGd0CnIcpREmvbiK0Pl1nPU6U893M3aksr8GibM9qmb7WVuuwd66f/Implants-01.jpg?psid=1


Microwaves... again!


Stan Deyo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8oQn-8YmU0) mentions in one of his video how, along with others, he was trained to do his research on anti-gravity by absorbing everything that was knonw of physics at that time by flipping some 200 pages/seconds into his mind... for him/them to join the dots in doing the research... god knows what else they put into the minds of these researchers!

[Dorjezigzag]

Here are what some people have said about the soul

George Gurdjieff in his Fourth Way taught that nobody is ever born with a soul. Rather, an individual must create a soul by a process of self-remembrance and observation during the course of their life. Without a soul, Gurdjieff taught that one will "die like a dog"

Taoism
According to Chinese traditions, every person has two types of soul called hun and po (魂 and 魄), which are respectively yang and yin. Taoism believes in ten souls, sanhunqipo (三魂七魄) "three hun and seven po".[80] The pò is linked to the dead body and the grave, whereas the hún is linked to the ancestral tablet. A living being that loses any of them is said to have mental illness or unconsciousness, while a dead soul may reincarnate to a disability, lower desire realms or may even be unable to reincarnate

Theosophy
In Helena Blavatsky's Theosophy the soul is the field of our psychological activity (thinking, emotions, memory, desires, will, and so on) as well as of the so-called paranormal or psychic phenomena (extrasensory perception, out-of-body experiences, etc.). However, the soul is not the highest, but a middle dimension of human beings. Higher than the soul is the spirit, which is considered to be the real self; the source of everything we call “good”—happiness, wisdom, love, compassion, harmony, peace, etc. While the spirit is eternal and incorruptible, the soul is not. The soul acts as a link between the material body and the spiritual self, and therefore shares some characteristics of both. The soul can be attracted either towards the spiritual or towards the material realm, being thus the “battlefield” of good and evil. It is only when the soul is attracted towards the spiritual and merges with the Self that it becomes eternal and divine

James Hillman

Contemporary psychology is defined as the study of mental processes and behavior. However, the word "psychology" literally means "study of the soul," and psychologist James Hillman, the founder of archetypal psychology, has been credited with "restoring 'soul' to its psychological sense." Although the words soul and spirit are often viewed as synonyms, Hillman argues that they can refer to antagonistic components of a person. Summarizing Hillman's views, author and psychotherapist Thomas Moore associates spirit with "afterlife, cosmic issues, idealistic values and hopes, and universal truths", while placing soul "in the thick of things: in the repressed, in the shadow, in the messes of life, in illness, and in the pain and confusion of love."[21] Hillman believes that religion—especially monotheism and monastic faiths—and humanistic psychology have tended to the spirit, often at the unfortunate expense of soul. This happens, Moore says, because to transcend the "lowly conditions of the soul ... is to lose touch with the soul, and a split-off spirituality, with no influence from the soul, readily falls into extremes of literalism and destructive fanaticism."
Hillman's archetypal psychology is in many ways an attempt to tend to the oft-neglected soul, which Hillman views as the "self-sustaining and imagining substrate" upon which consciousness rests. Hillman described the soul as that "which makes meaning possible, [deepens] events into experiences, is communicated in love, and has a religious concern," as well as "a special relation with death."[23] Departing from the Cartesian dualism "between outer tangible reality and inner states of mind," Hillman takes the Neoplatonic stance[24] that there is a "third, middle position" in which soul resides.[25] Archetypal psychology acknowledges this third position by attuning to, and often accepting, the archetypes, dreams, myths, and even psychopathologies through which, in Hillman's view, soul expresses itself

According to Nadya Yuguseva, a shaman from the Altai, "'A woman has 40 souls; men have just one!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul#Semantics

[Jules]

Interesting concept. Theoretically my soul is captured temporarily in this vessel or body having to experience whatever there is to learn in a conceived time (if time exists). Although other forms have disdain for my existence, I exist nonetheless and take information from experiencing the moment. Why is it so easy to be programmed? Being human, there are a lot of weaknesses, and those weaknesses are being played upon. Sadly from other humans, as much as any other entity. It takes effort to empower oneself. Empowering oneself means taking responsibility. Not always for the faint of heart. Sometimes really looking at myself, I am filled with remorse, however I see I am capable of great things as well, so I will try to forgive myself, as well as others. The soul just is...

[AriG]

So basically, everyone is suggesting that the differentiation between a soul and a spirit is based on theory or religious interpretation. In other words, there is no evidence to suggest that there is a difference. Either way, it is consciousness and the only evidence is individual perspective, so consensus is imposible as is speaking to this subject as absolute truth. Unless, that is, one can isolate the chromosomes that interact with this energy. Hmmm. Has that ever been done?

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

In my opinion, I find it amazing how some people insist in forcing their beliefs as absolute truths.

Honestly, no one was able to prove the very existence of the soul itself(as we generally define it currently), let alone proving that it can be captured or not.

So, can a soul be captured? The only honest answer is that we have no idea; The rest is pure speculation, opinions packed as truths.

I´m sure it´s very nice to discuss certain topics such as this one, but it would be equally nice to see some "in my opinion" written before some assertive statements presented here.

Cheers,

Raf.

[Tony]

Well, there we have it,
Some believe we have a soul.
Some do not believe we have a soul.
Some see the soul as their ultimate nature.
Some see the soul as their consciousness.
Some think it is something else.
Some say, “I have a soul.”...but do not state what that is, and it can be captured.

Below is what Wikipedia says, so you can take your choice, if you need to.
Personally it sound like a barren woman's, son's, pet!

As you will see below there is discussion about soul v spirit, even the great minds had different opinions. Whatever we think, we still have to get on with our lives, and actually arrive at what we are talking about!




............................
The soul, in many mythological, religious, philosophical, and psychological traditions, is the incorporeal and, in many conceptions, immortal essence of a person, living thing, or object.[1] According to some religions (including the Abrahamic religions in most of their forms), souls—or at least immortal souls capable of union with the divine[2]—belong only to human beings. For example, the Catholic theologian Thomas Aquinas attributed "soul" (anima) to all organisms but taught that only human souls are immortal.[3] Other religions (most notably Jainism) teach that all biological organisms have souls, and others further still that even non-biological entities (such as rivers and mountains) possess souls. This latter belief is called animism.[4] Anima mundi and the Dharmic Ātman are concepts of a "world soul."
Soul can function as a synonym for spirit, mind, psyche or self;[5] scientific works, in particular, often consider 'soul' as a synonym for 'mind'.[citation needed]


Linguistic aspects
[edit]
Etymology
The Modern English word soul derived from Old English sáwol, sáwel, first attested to in the 8th century poem Beowulf v. 2820 and in the Vespasian Psalter 77.50, and is cognate with other Germanic and Baltic terms for the same idea, including Gothic saiwala, Old High German sêula, sêla, Old Saxon sêola, Old Low Franconian sêla, sîla, Old Norse sála as well as Lithuanian siela. Further etymology of the Germanic word is uncertain. A more recent suggestion[6] connects it with a root for "binding", Germanic *sailian (OE sēlian, OHG seilen), related to the notion of being "bound" in death, and the practice of ritually binding or restraining the corpse of the deceased in the grave to prevent his or her return as a ghost.
The word is probably an adaptation by early missionaries—particularly Ulfilas, apostle to the Goths during the 3th century—of a native Germanic concept, which was a translation of Greek ψυχή psychē "life, spirit, consciousness".
The Greek word is derived from a verb "to cool, to blow" and hence refers to the vital breath, the animating principle in humans and other animals, as opposed to σῶμα (soma) meaning "body". It could refer to a ghost or spirit of the dead in Homer, and to a more philosophical notion of an immortal and immaterial essence left over at death since Pindar. Latin anima figured as a translation of ψυχή since Terence. Psychē occurs juxtaposed to σῶμα e.g. in Matthew 10:28:
— καὶ μὴ φοβεῖσθε ἀπὸ τῶν ἀποκτεννόντων τὸ σῶμα, τὴν δὲ ψυχὴν μὴ δυναμένων ἀποκτεῖναι·
φοβεῖσθε δὲ μᾶλλον τὸν δυνάμενον καὶ ψυχὴν καὶ σῶμα ἀπολέσαι ἐν γεέννῃ.
Vulgate: et nolite timere eos qui occidunt corpus animam autem non possunt occidere sed potius eum timete qui potest et animam et corpus perdere in gehennam.
Authorized King James Version (KJV) "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
In the Septuagint (LXX), ψυχή translates Hebrew נפש nephesh, meaning "life, vital breath", which is in English variously translated as "soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion"; e.g. in Genesis 1:20:
— וַיֹּ֣אמֶר אֱלֹהִ֔ים יִשְׁרְצ֣וּ הַמַּ֔יִם שֶׁ֖רֶץ נֶ֣פֶשׁ חַיָּ֑ה
LXX καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεός ἐξαγαγέτω τὰ ὕδατα ἑρπετὰ ψυχῶν ζωσῶν.
Vulgate Creavitque Deus cete grandia, et omnem animam viventem atque motabilem.
KJV "And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth."
Paul of Tarsus used ψυχή and πνεῦμα specifically to distinguish between the Jewish notions of נפש nephesh and רוח ruah (spirit) (also in LXX, e.g. Genesis 1:2 וְר֣וּחַאֱלֹהִ֔ים = πνεῦμα θεοῦ = spiritus Dei = "the Spirit of God").
[edit]
Semantics
Although the terms soul and spirit are sometimes used interchangeably, soul may denote a more worldly and less transcendent aspect of a person.[7] According to psychologist James Hillman, soul has an affinity for negative thoughts and images, whereas spirit seeks to rise above the entanglements of life and death.[8] The words soul and psyche can also be treated synonymously, although psyche has more physical connotations, whereas soul is connected more closely to spirituality and religion.[9]
[edit]
Philosophical views
The Ancient Greeks used the same word for 'alive' as for 'ensouled', indicating that the earliest surviving western philosophical view believed that the soul was that which gave the body life. The soul was considered the incorporeal or spiritual 'breath' which animates (from the Latin, anima, cf. animal) the living organism.
Francis M. Cornford quotes Pindar in saying that the soul sleeps while the limbs are active, but when one is sleeping, the soul is active and reveals in many a dream "an award of joy or sorrow drawing near."[10]
Erwin Rohde writes that the early pre-Pythagorean belief was that the soul had no life when it departed from the body, and retired into Hades with no hope of returning to a body.[11]
It has been argued that a strict line of causality fails to explain certain phenomena within human experience (such as free will) that have at times been attributed to the soul. (See also: Determinism and free will)
[edit]


Socrates and Plato



Plato, drawing on the words of his teacher Socrates, considered the soul the essence of a person, being that which decides how we behave. He considered this essence to be an incorporeal, eternal occupant of our being. As bodies die, the soul is continually reborn in subsequent bodies. The Platonic soul comprises three parts:
the logos, or logistikon (mind, nous, or reason)
the thymos, or thumetikon (emotion, or spiritedness, or masculine)
the eros, or epithumetikon (appetitive, or desire, or feminine)
Each of these has a function in a balanced, level and peaceful soul.



.....there's lot more.....


Tony

[greybeard]

I cant help but think that something very simple is being made complex.
Enlightened beings. for thousands of years, from direct experience, have uniformly stated that the individual is an illusion and only "God" is and that is what you are.
That is not a concept or a belief. They speak from that state of Oneness that Jesus spoke of--The Father and I are One.
You either take their word for that or dont.
If you do, then you can endeavour to know this directly.

Chris

Ps Ramana answered many questions by saying "First find out who is asking--when you know that the question is redundant" My interpretation of what he said

[Sebastion]

The simple fact of the matter is that this conversation could go on forever and you are still not going to know the actual truth of it until you decide you're going to know for yourself. There is a number of people on this forum who have found the answer for themselves based upon direct experience.

9eagle9's explanation regarding the soul and spirit is an excellent one and should be pondered deeply. When you of yourself decide you want to know badly enough, then and only then will you begin the journey of discovery. Until then, you are saddled with other peoples opinions and beliefs, which is just that, opinions and beliefs.

[Jules]

Some don't wish to acknowledge existence of a soul. People believe what they choose, and that is okay. What if this worldly existence is the illusion, and reality of a soul is truth. If there is no such thing as a soul, then why would one want to take it, or use it so much? Just a thought. Only opinion.

[Dorjezigzag]

There is a number of people on this forum who have found the answer

I would question if anyone can find the answer,

Is life a problem to be solved or a mystery to be lived
The conscious mind can only appreciate a fraction of the infinity of experience.
Many people on this forum have had an experience of the soul or spirit or whatever label you wish to give something that is beyond such definitions. The label of soul or spirit is not the thing itself, which if to be fully experienced needs to break through any limiting boundaries and definitions. The definitions can provide a pathway but they are not the experience itself. That is something that is unique to you;


When you of yourself decide you want to know badly enough, then and only then will you begin the journey of discovery. Until then, you are saddled with other peoples opinions and beliefs, which is just that, opinions and beliefs

As well we can be just as saddled with our own opinions and beliefs as other peoples. That is why it is good to be open minded and appreciate that there is not just one experience or interpretation of words and teachings. I think a long discussion about the nature of the soul, spirit, atman, anima, animus, breath of life, essence whatever you wish to call and define it is extremely valid far better than the usual conversations about football and celebrities. I am interested in everyone's unique experience and interpretation, we can all learn from each other.

[Jenci]

Your body is a separate, individual expression of the Spirit/Source which allows you to have the experience of this lifetime.

Your soul is a separate, individual expression of the Spirit/Source which allows you to continue to have the individual experience from lifetime to lifetime.


But you are not your body or your soul.

What you truly are, is Spirit/Source. It is not individual. It's not personal. It's not separate. It's not divided. It's whole and complete.

Although you are not your body, it is possible to have an individual experience of being captured, tortured and pain in the body. Likewise it is possible to experience the same thing at the soul level but even if the soul is captured, it doesn't mean that you are captured, just as it if was your body, it would not be you, just the experience the body was having.

I would say that many people have tortured souls, carrying pain and trauma from lifetime to lifetime and it has nothing to do with the bad guys doing bad things to the souls but everything to do with the individuals' avoidance of their pain and habitual coping tendencies.

There have been people on this forum offering a way out of this for those who are willing to do the work and be disciplined about it. The opportunity is open for all however much in prison they appear to be this lifetime.



It's good to see 9eagle9 posting here :cool: and making the important distinction between soul and Spirit.


Jeanette

[Dorjezigzag]

The opportunity is open for all however much in prison they appear to be this lifetime

This reminds me of a guy I met in Thailand, he had a nice relaxed air about him and therefore I was surprised on finding out why he had spent so long in Thailand. He had been in the past a heroin addict and for what ever reason he found himself in a Thai Jail serving a 6 year sentence. I said "That must have been a hard time" he replied actually no it was the best thing that could have happened to him. Reason being he got off the Heroin and then got into meditation and Yoga in the jail. This totally changed his life.

Funny thing going to Jail to find his freedom!

[Tarka the Duck]

So….many differing explanations of people's ideas about "the soul"…very interesting reading, so thanks everyone! It does seem that there are as many definitions as there are people in the universe :rolleyes:

Personally, I'm hoping that Bill will have the time to come back on this thread as several people have asked for clarification of some of the statements he's made. As it seems we all have different definitions of what we mean by "soul", and the "soul" has never been identified or proven to exist, I'm struggling with the idea that it can be "captured". That belief - because that what it is - could have a phenomenally detrimental effect on a person's life: when we can't even all decide what the soul is, how can we believe that such a thing can be "captured"?

Here are some of Bill's categorial assertions that I hope he will be able to elaborate upon:


Souls can be affected by all kinds of things, specifically including spiritual implants. Some terrible things have happened to some souls over the trillennia. Souls can be captured under certain circumstances, and enslaved in every which way.

This is something that is frequently misunderstood, and is absolutely not true. Souls most certainly can, under certain circumstances, be implanted, imprisoned, and/or harmed.

I, and many others, have personally freed trapped beings that have experienced and endured this. I do know exactly what I'm talking about here. I'm happy to share some details, though how this all happens can be complex and sometimes a little hard to understand without quite a lot more context.

Yes, I agree that ultimately, no harm can come to a soul. But in between the start of eternity and the end (this is a metaphor!!), a lot of bad things can happen that are not necessarily chosen by the soul.

And that depends on your definition of "bad", as well. My definition of experiencing a bad thing is something like being imprisoned, tortured, used, abused, and implanted to be something quite different from one's basic identity, for up to quadrillions of years and hundreds of universe cycles.

In the end, that soul can be fully healed and rehabilitated. I have done this myself: I've been trained in the techniques, and how to apply them. But I would personally classify that experience as "harmful". This may really be what this discussion is about.

In summary: souls/ spirits are categorically not impervious to having bad, unchosen experiences enforced on them by others with agendas that break the agreements of those taking part in "reality". It's very important to understand this.


Oh, and could you please explain what you meant by a "spiritual implant"?

Thanks
Kathie

[Metaphor]

Just giving my view after following this thread since it started, I guess it has CAPTURED my attention so to speak...

Big thanks to Tony for sharing your views and making this forum worth staying at.
My take on this is , keep it simple and go with that. Just be. It will all be alright in the end.

Thanks for all good contributions here, of all great threads this has to be one of the best just now. I mean, if we don´t get to the bottom of WHO we are, how the heck are we going to determine where to go or what to do. Until I decide i´ll just be.

[Hervé]

All right...

Countless individuals recount their adventures in the "astral realms" where they "free" beings from their ghost existence... ask Carmody what he has been doing in the aftermath of the Indonesian "Boxing Day" mass murd... errr...tsunami...

Can "we" agree that a "ghost" is a disorientated, "lost soul" trapped into an unending time loop?

If this can accidentally happen to a being -- ending up as a ghost -- why can't it happen through an intentional "refinement" of similar traumatic experiences?

For the proponent of the "all is illusion"... some illusions are quite convincing like keeping a body warm, fed and sheltered under the penalty of losing a vehicle for one's experience, mission or contribution in this 3D realm... go ask the people render homeless by hurricane "Sandy"...

Post # 48 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51678-Can-a-soul-be-captured&p=579267&viewfull=1#post579267) gives an idea where some of these captured souls end up and what they are used for. Others end up in spaceships, other planets or underground bases.

Post # 103 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51678-Can-a-soul-be-captured&p=579992&viewfull=1#post579992) describes the mechanics which makes it possible to encapsulate beings (spirits) within their "souls" and jail the whole package for reprogramming as explain by Truman Cash in his "The Programming of a Planet (http://lunahelia.com/docs/cash.zip)" and "Eye of Ra (http://lunahelia.com/docs/cash2.zip)" books.

Post # 109 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51678-Can-a-soul-be-captured&p=580066&viewfull=1#post580066) describes how that very mechanics is currently refined and used to perform whatever capture and programming deemed appropriate for the "controllers'" benefits.

Whether one agrees or not does not prevent the capturing or "harvesting" from happening... ask the MKultra, Montalk, Project Talent, sex slaves, satanic rituals, ET and/or MiLab guinea pigs and victims about the "illusion" of it all... that's what they have all been told all along by the cover up stooges and shills: "It's all in your mind...". Indeed and in deed!

[Jake]

Fantasy can have a detrimental effect on your mental health.

Pretending to know the unknowable can too.. All things, matters, associations, relations, are dependent on all other parts of the system to exist. Our individual souls only exist in relation to all others. Stepping outside of the 'matrix', and realizing the 'suchness' as it is, one will of course lead one to realize that there is no such thing as an imprisoned 'soul'...

However,,,, we exist in a probable reality that exists as matter and void. Our daily lives are separate from the pure being existence beyond physical reality, therefore, we still exist in set of belief systems that can and ARE controlled and manipulated. The clever deceiver can work beyond the limits of our perception, and 'lead' us into false beliefs that separate us from the divine.

Consider the following:


“The Magicians Sheep”
by G.I. Gurdjieff

“There is an Eastern tale that speaks about a very rich magician who
had a great many sheep. But at the same time this magician was very
mean. He did not want to hire shepherds, nor did he want to erect a
fence about the pasture where the sheep were grazing. The sheep
consequently often wandered into the forest, fell into ravines and so
on, and above all, they ran away, for they knew that the magician
wanted their flesh and their skins, and this they did not like.

At last the magician found a remedy.
He hypnotized his sheep and suggested to them, first of all, that they
were immortal and that no harm was being done to them when they were
skinned; that on the contrary, it would be very good for them and even
pleasant; secondly he suggested that the magician was a good master who
loved his flock so much that he was ready to do anything in the world
for them; and in the third place, he suggested that if anything at all
were going to happen to them, it was not going to happen just then, at
any rate not that day, and therefore they had no need to think about
it. Further, the magician suggested to his sheep that they were not
sheep at all; to some of them he suggested that they were lions, to
some that they were eagles, to some that they were men, to others that
they were magicians. After this all his cares and worries about the
sheep came to an end. They never ran away again, but quietly awaited
the time when the magician would require their flesh and skins.”

This is a bit different from the 'technological' manipulation of energy bodies. But a good analogy of our situation here, in this duality.

Jake. :p

[nomadguy]

It is my personal take, that one of the major ways an individual gets their soul stuck in something is that we get lured into it.
There are a number a of ways this can happen. One way is all-truism, the individual whom is more than willing to help and will do anything to assist humanity. It is as if that type of personality attracts other beings whom see that trait and know it can be manipulated. So they offer up a worthy task. These occurrences are often associated with ET or angelic phenomena.
The altruist takes up the task with vigor and puts in the effort to help us save ourselves and/or the planet etc.
AND in doing so gets themselves stuck. From then on they are fed upon and it ends up not being what they wanted or expected at all.
Luckily the individual can learn from it and then break loose.
~Better to be wise before hand and not get lured into it.
The Ego is not always the hungry greedy type, no altruists have a different Ego problem. The glitter of the opportunity to help change things in a dynamic and massive way is a very illustrious lure to this type of person. I know this one from experience.
On the other hand,
Power hungry people get a different lure but in a way it ends up as just the same predicament. Their lust for power gets them stuck too. No matter which way you go it is a rough road, better to be wise and not be lured,
be humble... take small steps.

[bodhii71]

Beautiful insights from both you and Tony. Some things can be talked about till the end of time, some things one must come to know by sweating white beads :-)

Your body is a separate, individual expression of the Spirit/Source which allows you to have the experience of this lifetime.

Your soul is a separate, individual expression of the Spirit/Source which allows you to continue to have the individual experience from lifetime to lifetime.


But you are not your body or your soul.

What you truly are, is Spirit/Source. It is not individual. It's not personal. It's not separate. It's not divided. It's whole and complete.

Although you are not your body, it is possible to have an individual experience of being captured, tortured and pain in the body. Likewise it is possible to experience the same thing at the soul level but even if the soul is captured, it doesn't mean that you are captured, just as it if was your body, it would not be you, just the experience the body was having.

I would say that many people have tortured souls, carrying pain and trauma from lifetime to lifetime and it has nothing to do with the bad guys doing bad things to the souls but everything to do with the individuals' avoidance of their pain and habitual coping tendencies.

There have been people on this forum offering a way out of this for those who are willing to do the work and be disciplined about it. The opportunity is open for all however much in prison they appear to be this lifetime.



It's good to see 9eagle9 posting here and making the important distinction between soul and Spirit.


Jeanette

[Demeisen]

Can Source/God be captured and tortured?

That would require pretty high level technology ;)

While I respect all point of views expressed here, I wonder if we are confusing some terminology? What I believe, we are made of several layers like onions. Starting with rough physical 3d body up to finer and finer energetic bodies/layers. I guess, like we can be put into prison here in 3d density, we can be imprisoned in our higher energetic forms too. I suppose that could be possible. And I suppose that could be very traumatic. But I also believe that could be possible only to certain limit. The higher (finer) is our energetic layer/body the less affected it is by malevolent intents. Our souls (the core) are part of the Source, and thus untouchable (well, unless you believe Source/God can be captured).
So when you say yes, souls can be captured, do you actually mean that to a certain level our energetic bodies can be captured? I think it's important to state the difference here.
Best regards

[mahalall]

For one understanding soul manipulation reading and communicating with caution,

Benjamin Walker (1982), Tantrism, It's Secret Principles and Practises.

Amongst many traditions; The Bons from the Urgyan magical heritage, followers are recognised by their conical headgear worn during their rites, are powerfully influential adepts in the area of soul manipulations.

[DeDukshyn]

All right...

Countless individuals recount their adventures in the "astral realms" where they "free" beings from their ghost existence... ask Carmody what he has been doing in the aftermath of the Indonesian "Boxing Day" mass murd... errr...tsunami...

Can "we" agree that a "ghost" is a disorientated, "lost soul" trapped into an unending time loop?

If this can accidentally happen to a being -- ending up as a ghost -- why can't it happen through an intentional "refinement" of similar traumatic experiences?

For the proponent of the "all is illusion"... some illusions are quite convincing like keeping a body warm, fed and sheltered under the penalty of losing a vehicle for one's experience, mission or contribution in this 3D realm... go ask the people render homeless by hurricane "Sandy"...

Post # 48 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51678-Can-a-soul-be-captured&p=579267&viewfull=1#post579267) gives an idea where some of these captured souls end up and what they are used for. Others end up in spaceships, other planets or underground bases.

Post # 103 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51678-Can-a-soul-be-captured&p=579992&viewfull=1#post579992) describes the mechanics which makes it possible to encapsulate beings (spirits) within their "souls" and jail the whole package for reprogramming as explain by Truman Cash in his "The Programming of a Planet (http://lunahelia.com/docs/cash.zip)" and "Eye of Ra (http://lunahelia.com/docs/cash2.zip)" books.

Post # 109 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51678-Can-a-soul-be-captured&p=580066&viewfull=1#post580066) describes how that very mechanics is currently refined and used to perform whatever capture and programming deemed appropriate for the "controllers'" benefits.

Whether one agrees or not does not prevent the capturing or "harvesting" from happening... ask the MKultra, Montalk, Project Talent, sex slaves, satanic rituals, ET and/or MiLab guinea pigs and victims about the "illusion" of it all... that's what they have all been told all along by the cover up stooges and shills: "It's all in your mind...". Indeed and in deed!

What you just described in your last paragraph also sounds like the near perfect execution to ensure the perpetuation of the illusion ...

[davyj0nes]

I've been watching this thread for awhile now, and i see capturing souls is a bit like madmen running around the beach with sippy cups full of sea water, yelling that they've imprisoned the sea. Watching everyone come together adding their own definition of soul, spirit, that which exists vs that which does not exist, ect. So many differing views, its quite nice really. So, in closing, helping to release souls is all well and good, but what exactly is a soul... hmm...

[Ultima Thule]

I figure yes the soul can be captured or injured in a way that even though it eventually and ultimately will join in unity with the source(what ever that might mean), it will have lost it´s ability to heal as an individuated experiencer - being beyond repair in a way - but instead must be broken down into it´s smallest elements and be joined with the source as those elements. This will result in an ultimate happy end as all is again one, but the injured soul won´t perhaps be able to share it´s tale of it´s journey. Therefore nothing is really lost in absolute quantitative terms, but something is surely missed in quality, the tale of the return of that particular soul won´t be heard or told. It´s like playing in a casino where you are guaranteed to get your money back, but don´t get any extra. Extra bit being the individual experience.

There´s no particular source for this information, just how I envision it.

UT

[Tony]

If we are all here, could we not all be captured souls? Souls meaning sentient beings.

So what captured us? Could it be our own beliefs. Beliefs meaning fixated ideas, fixated ideas meaning karma.

How do we escape? By letting go of fixated ideas, thereby reducing the effect of karma, thereby escaping and being free!




Well it's better than the image of someone wandering around with a big soul-catcher net, putting us in bottles!;)

[Ba-ba-Ra]

If we are all here, could we not all be captured souls? Souls meaning sentient beings.

So what captured us? Could it be our own beliefs. Beliefs meaning fixated ideas, fixated ideas meaning karma.

How do we escape? By letting go of fixated ideas, thereby reducing the effect of karma, thereby escaping and being free!

Well it's better than the image of someone wandering around with a big soul-catcher net, putting us in bottles!;)


I agree that if you are in a body (and you can't get out any time you wish) IMO you are trapped - or captured.

I also feel your beliefs and emotional attachments to dramas being played out here, keep you more tethered to 3D. Less emotionality, more flexiblity through love and tolerance will make our lives here in 3D more joyous.

However, I do feel there is another component that keeps us trapped here, but I don't know yet what it is, so for me, I focus on making my life here as pleasant and joyous as possible. I have suspected once you are talked into being born, at some level you are trapped and that's why there are so many negative beliefs around suicide in just about every religion and culture. Now you could say that's because it's a truism that committing suicide will effect your soul and/or future lives negatively. Of you could say that it's because it's a built in guarantee that we will stay trapped by whoever convinced us to come into these bodies because they need slaves.

[greybeard]

Bottom line is I cant do anything about being in the body so I make the most of it.
Many advantages being in a body, in this world.
Why worry????
Chris

[Jenci]

The idea that a soul is captured, leads to the idea that it needs to be rescued.

If someone needs rescuing they then start looking for a saviour.

This idea that people need someone to rescue and save them, is all too familiar unfortunately.


Looking externally, outside of yourself, is a distraction away from the true self.

Source/Spirit is found within.

[Tony]

Make the most of it, accept it, appreciate it, this is an incredible moment. Is it intense on many levels, the more the negativity, the brighter everything appears. If we can face every possibility of negativity and find we do not react but stay centred, we are indeed fortunate.

Whatever negativity is thrown our way, if we neither accept it or reject it, we are more then fortunate!

Every moment challenges the ego, and we fortunate when we realise..."Hey is that all you got?"

[Hervé]

How many posters on this thread actually addressed the question asked:


"Can a soul be captured?"

My answer is yes, to wit:



All right...

Countless individuals recount their adventures in the "astral realms" where they "free" beings from their ghost existence... ask Carmody what he has been doing in the aftermath of the Indonesian "Boxing Day" mass murd... errr...tsunami...

Can "we" agree that a "ghost" is a disorientated, "lost soul" trapped into an unending time loop?

If this can accidentally happen to a being -- ending up as a ghost -- why can't it happen through an intentional "refinement" of similar traumatic experiences?

For the proponent of the "all is illusion"... some illusions are quite convincing like keeping a body warm, fed and sheltered under the penalty of losing a vehicle for one's experience, mission or contribution in this 3D realm... go ask the people render homeless by hurricane "Sandy"...

Post # 48 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51678-Can-a-soul-be-captured&p=579267&viewfull=1#post579267) gives an idea where some of these captured souls end up and what they are used for. Others end up in spaceships, other planets or underground bases.

Post # 103 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51678-Can-a-soul-be-captured&p=579992&viewfull=1#post579992) describes the mechanics which makes it possible to encapsulate beings (spirits) within their "souls" and jail the whole package for reprogramming as explain by Truman Cash in his "The Programming of a Planet (http://lunahelia.com/docs/cash.zip)" and "Eye of Ra (http://lunahelia.com/docs/cash2.zip)" books.

Post # 109 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51678-Can-a-soul-be-captured&p=580066&viewfull=1#post580066) describes how that very mechanics is currently refined and used to perform whatever capture and programming deemed appropriate for the "controllers'" benefits.

Whether one agrees or not does not prevent the capturing or "harvesting" from happening... ask the MKultra, Montalk, Project Talent, sex slaves, satanic rituals, ET and/or MiLab guinea pigs and victims about the "illusion" of it all... that's what they have all been told all along by the cover up stooges and shills: "It's all in your mind...". Indeed and in deed!

With the capture of its soul, so is "spirit"... until "spirit" realizes it is neither its body nor its soul and can then proceed to unravel the "beliefs," programs, hypnotic implants, "illusions," constructs, contraptions, machineries, etc, imposed or self imposed on "spirit"'s "properties": its soul and body.

However, the latter portion of the above paragraph is "Off Topic" per the thread's title... :)

[greybeard]

To put it categorically
I dont believe the soul or any other name you put to it can be captured.

Chris

[Hervé]

To put it categorically
I dont believe the soul or any other name you put to it can be captured.

Chris

How about supported facts?

It only takes 30 seconds of sitting in front of a switch on TV to be under an hypnotic trance and turned into a skull-dwelling zombie.

[Tony]

To put it categorically
I dont believe the soul or any other name you put to it can be captured.

Chris

How about supported facts?

It only takes 30 seconds of sitting in front of a switch on TV to be under an hypnotic trance and turned into a skull-dwelling zombie.




Ah! Doesn't that suggest a captured mind, or a distracted mind?

[DeDukshyn]

To put it categorically
I dont believe the soul or any other name you put to it can be captured.

Chris

I gotta stand behind Chris on this one.

If one understands the way "octaves" work in Creation, how that relates to density, matter, ethers and mind, the way it steps down from Source, then it is easy to see that "capturing a soul" or "capturing God" is complete nonsense.

If someone can convince that your soul can be trapped and God can be defeated, they are lacking in fundamental knowledge of how Creation works, but in believing you may be allowing the illusion for your own "captured" soul to persist.

My 2 cents.

[greybeard]

To put it categorically
I dont believe the soul or any other name you put to it can be captured.

Chris

How about supported facts?

It only takes 30 seconds of sitting in front of a switch on TV to be under an hypnotic trance and turned into a skull-dwelling zombie.

With respect I have posted here quotes from Ramana Maharshi as evidence.
A lifetime of studying text from enlightened beings leads me to the conclusion that we are the infinite.
You cant put that in a box.
I accept that in Maya/illusion all things are possible and what seems to be the soul/self can be captured and it could seem so real.
Ultimately what you are is beyond human imagination/mind.

see here also.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.&p=580024&viewfull=1#post580024
Chris

[Hervé]

[...]

How about supported facts?

It only takes 30 seconds of sitting in front of a switch on TV to be under an hypnotic trance and turned into a skull-dwelling zombie.

Ah! Doesn't that suggest a captured mind, or a distracted mind?


How many billions of those do we have?

[Hervé]

[...]

Ultimately what you are is beyond human imagination/mind.

[...]

Chris

Chris,

I have no qualms with the "ultimately."

Let's also look at this 3D "reality" where the so-called "ascended masters" never dumped their bodies until said bodies quit, same for their "souls."

[Tony]

Our true being has to be beyond fear, as it is so vast no thing can encapsulate it.
And as our true being is not a thing, but sacred space itself, anything can arise in it.

So our true being encapsulates everything.

[Tony]

[...]

How about supported facts?

It only takes 30 seconds of sitting in front of a switch on TV to be under an hypnotic trance and turned into a skull-dwelling zombie.

Ah! Doesn't that suggest a captured mind, or a distracted mind?


How many billions of those do we have?



Sentient beings are distracted minds. However, in reality, we are infinite.
When we are no longer distracted, we have found our goal.

In the mean time we have to stay in jail!

[Jenci]

How many posters on this thread actually addressed the question asked:


"Can a soul be captured?"

My answer is yes, to wit:




With the capture of its soul, so is "spirit"... until "spirit" realizes it is neither its body nor its soul and can then proceed to unravel the "beliefs," programs, hypnotic implants, "illusions," constructs, contraptions, machineries, etc, imposed or self imposed on "spirit"'s "properties": its soul and body.

However, the latter portion of the above paragraph is "Off Topic" per the thread's title... :)

When you are aware of the bigger picture in that you are Source/Spirit, then the issue of the captured soul is seen from a different perspective.


Spirit/Source doesn't need to realise that it is not the (captured) soul. It's already free.


The idea of a captured soul just keeps people's attention focused in the wrong direction, away from the greater reality.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbWg-mozGsU

[DeDukshyn]

[...]

Ultimately what you are is beyond human imagination/mind.

[...]

Chris

Chris,

I have no qualms with the "ultimately."

Let's also look at this 3D "reality" where the so-called "ascended masters" never dumped their bodies until said bodies quit, same for their "souls."

You mean you want to talk about the "illusion" of being captured? ;) ;)

[greybeard]

[...]

Ultimately what you are is beyond human imagination/mind.

[...]

Chris

Chris,

I have no qualms with the "ultimately."

Let's also look at this 3D "reality" where the so-called "ascended masters" never dumped their bodies until said bodies quit, same for their "souls."


Hi Amer Zo.

I dont really go for the term ascended masters--- that's what humans called souls who were enlightened before death.
Its "us" that needs ascended masters.
The wave becomes the Ocean --the Pot breaks, the space is with the ultimate space--- ( as per my Ramana quote) no separate ascended master except in our mind. In non duality how can there be a separate master?

There is a record of some who have left the body of their own free will-- Yogananda for one.
Dr David Hawkins said he could leave at any time.
They remain here to help others out of Maya.

Chris

[Tarka the Duck]

It only takes 30 seconds of sitting in front of a switch on TV to be under an hypnotic trance and turned into a skull-dwelling zombie.

Hello AZ

Could you please explain why you see that as evidence that a "soul" has been "captured"?

[Nanoo Nanoo]

I think who we think is "god " is ancient mans interpretation of draconis alien aparitions when they ruled us in closer quaters

The soul is a harvestable energy scource but not for slavery like we stupidly believe by default because of all the negative propaganda.

We are re cyclable interactive learning batteries. When our body vessel dies the soul energy complex leaves back to its original state and gets recycled by our " god " . The caretakers of this logos are the council of 12 which are an extremely advanced race. They exist in multidimention mutispherically.

Our soul goes to a holding chamber where we are de breifed. We then go through a series of experiences to help both the soul and the facilitators decide where to send you next. You agree on an experience to help your soul efolve to a higher vibrationary plane. You must achieve this asmits a rewarding experience.

Slavery? Tell me where any pessimist on any plane that thinks any thing less than being fed grapes with a laurel round your head is slavery.

We all have to evolve. Some enjoy the experience and some decide its a task and feel like a slave. You dont need slaves, helloo?

Greys are manufactured worker bees, new technology, no need to capture souls and go through this long winded conversion program, pfft.

Our imaginations are vast and sometimes work against us.

Born
Experience
Evolve
Die
Rince
Repeat

Hugs

N
N

[Hervé]

About "illusions" and their effectiveness when a soul is captured:


[...]

Hypnosis gives the key as to how implanters work out their implants and mind-control the future behaviour of their victims:


The only other time I have personally witnessed what I saw in my son was a time years ago when a friend of mine was hypnotized by her brother in front of me and her boyfriend. Her brother asked me what I would like him to have her do after he woke her up. I wanted to see if she would repeat something that she would considered silly under normal circumstances. I said, have her get up and flush the toilet every time you tug at your collar.

So he gave her the command, then woke her up. He tugged his collar, she got up, went into the bathroom and flushed the toilet, came back and sat down. He tugged his collar again, and she did it again. And again. After three or four times, I finally asked her why she kept getting up to flush the toilet.

First, she just said it needed flushing. She did it again. And again, I asked her why she kept flushing the toilet. Each time I asked her, she would make up some lame reason as to why she had to flush the toilet.

She got more and more annoyed at me for asking, but she did it again and again upon command and could never see that there was anything strange about it.

Her brother hypnotized her once more to release her of the command, but what an amazing thing to have witnessed.

This is what I saw in my son. He could not answer a simple question but only parrot the party line.


[...]

Is the effect real?

Is it affecting other individuals' reality?

Is the implanted "illusion" enacted in this 3D reality?

Isn't it all in that individual's mind yet implemented in 3D reality?

To re-iterate:


With the capture of its soul, so is "spirit"... until "spirit" realizes it is neither its body nor its soul and can then proceed to unravel the "beliefs," programs, hypnotic implants, "illusions," constructs, contraptions, machineries, etc, imposed or self imposed on "spirit"'s "properties": its soul and body.

However, the latter portion of the above paragraph is "Off Topic" per the thread's title... :)

[DeDukshyn]

The effect appears "real" while it is being allowed.

I used to be affected. The same no longer effects me as I no longer allow it (not talking about something specific but I could if it would help). Did the effects change or did I change my experience of that illusion? Thus I changed the Illusion, which gives confidence it was only illusion.

2 cents ;)

[Hervé]

The effect appears "real" while it is being allowed.

I used to be affected. The same no longer effects me as I no longer allow it (not talking about something specific but I could if it would help). Did the effects change or did I change my experience of that illusion? Thus I changed the Illusion, which gives confidence it was only illusion.

2 cents ;)


Where is the disagreement?


To re-iterate:



With the capture of its soul, so is "spirit"... until "spirit" realizes it is neither its body nor its soul and can then proceed to unravel the "beliefs," programs, hypnotic implants, "illusions," constructs, contraptions, machineries, etc, imposed or self imposed on "spirit"'s "properties": its soul and body.

However, the latter portion of the above paragraph is "Off Topic" per the thread's title... :)

[Metaphor]

http://dudeworld.com.au/images/fruit12.jpg

I guess this illustrates my thoughts about this...
We are still attached to the tree.

[Tony]

We allow ourselves to be taken in and captured, by 'toys'

go43XeW6Wg4

[Metaphor]

I like how he gets in for another spin in the wheel :p

[Tony]

I like how he gets in for another spin in the wheel :p




That's attachment for you!;)

[Tony]

It is easy to confuse 'soul capture' with the ancient art of mind control....

lu94h7y6r7M

[Ultima Thule]

To put it categorically
I dont believe the soul or any other name you put to it can be captured.

Chris

I gotta stand behind Chris on this one.

If one understands the way "octaves" work in Creation, how that relates to density, matter, ethers and mind, the way it steps down from Source, then it is easy to see that "capturing a soul" or "capturing God" is complete nonsense.

If someone can convince that your soul can be trapped and God can be defeated, they are lacking in fundamental knowledge of how Creation works, but in believing you may be allowing the illusion for your own "captured" soul to persist.

My 2 cents.




I think who we think is "god " is ancient mans interpretation of draconis alien aparitions when they ruled us in closer quaters

The soul is a harvestable energy scource but not for slavery like we stupidly believe by default because of all the negative propaganda.

We are re cyclable interactive learning batteries. When our body vessel dies the soul energy complex leaves back to its original state and gets recycled by our " god " . The caretakers of this logos are the council of 12 which are an extremely advanced race. They exist in multidimention mutispherically.

Our soul goes to a holding chamber where we are de breifed. We then go through a series of experiences to help both the soul and the facilitators decide where to send you next. You agree on an experience to help your soul efolve to a higher vibrationary plane. You must achieve this asmits a rewarding experience.

Slavery? Tell me where any pessimist on any plane that thinks any thing less than being fed grapes with a laurel round your head is slavery.

We all have to evolve. Some enjoy the experience and some decide its a task and feel like a slave. You dont need slaves, helloo?

Greys are manufactured worker bees, new technology, no need to capture souls and go through this long winded conversion program, pfft.

Our imaginations are vast and sometimes work against us.

Born
Experience
Evolve
Die
Rince
Repeat

Hugs

N
N


I am interested if you DeDukshyn could map out to us(or at least to me) this logic of the octaves which seems quite obvious to you and possibly not to others(at least to me) and how it relates to the logic of soul development that NN has sketched out to us in his quote. Do you feel that your views can co-exist with Nanoo Nanoos or are they contradictory? This question is absolutely also directed at Nanoo Nanoo and answer is most wellcome from him as well.

Come to think of it, this can be called :whoo:the Awesome DD - NN Questionnaire ;)


UT

[Tony]

This is a scene from The "Silver Chair" Narnia Chronicles.
Puddleglum and the children are captured and taken down to the witches underworld are bewitched....then puddleglum wakes up!

Wh55SzhLkmc

[Hervé]

To make it simple:

Anything that is part of a universe (whatever the density/dimension it's at in its existence) is capturable because at that particular density/dimension it has a physicality, i.e energies or "things" can interfer with any other part of that particular universe.

Only that which has remained outside of universes (i.e. outside of time and space) is untouched but also unaware (no perception for a non-created universe that's is not its own) but that's also already outside of the thread's question.

[greybeard]

In the beginning there was the word (logos--sound)
So its a all frequency.
Power vs Force by the late Dr David Hawkins explains this well.

Chris

[Buck]

[QUOTE=Sebastion;580325]

I agree with you on this -

"The simple fact of the matter is that this conversation could go on forever and you are still not going to know the actual truth of it until you decide you're going to know for yourself. There is a number of people on this forum who have found the answer for themselves based upon direct experience."

Well said, well said.
But then, in the following paragraph;

"9eagle9's explanation regarding the soul and spirit is an excellent one and should be pondered deeply. When you of yourself decide you want to know badly enough, then and only then will you begin the journey of discovery. Until then, you are saddled with other peoples opinions and beliefs, which is just that, opinions and beliefs."

huh.

You firmly suggest that we had better stop going on with our endless arguments "saddled with other people's opinions and beliefs" we all need to wake up, and listen to the "excellent" opinion of 9eagle9.

Beware of any tendency to place any being on a pedestal. Listen to your own wisdom.

Use your first paragraph as a starting point. By all means, yes we should use our manifest faculties (such as our clever "critical thinking" meat computer primate brain). But focusing our efforts on refining our critical thinking and our healthy skepticism can only take us so far. Sooner or later, we must begin to consider that even this fine set of sensory instruments that we have installed, operate on a several millisecond delay to the meat processor that does the "critical thinking" we are so proud of. So, being "in the moment", is literally, physically, impossible for our physical equipment. Not for us, but for our equipment. Our "eyes" cannot see but a narrow band of the range of the energy spectrum we call "light". We are blind to the vast majority of the spectrum of "light" that is all around us, and we can only "hear" a narrow freguency range of the energy that we call "sound". So we are deaf, and blind, and insensate to the majority of the spectrum of experience happening around us, physically unable to experience our "reality" in real time. Good equipment, but we have so much more available, with exponentially more capacities.

What you may be appreciating in 9eagle9's contribution I see as a lot of fractious energy, which can inspire (some would say that is a nice way of saying incite :) emotional reactions that sometimes can help people work through "their stuff" on a very basic level. I don't see that sort of process as being all that useful anymore, primarily because it is intrinsically rooted in duality and ego. There is so much evidence of rapid spiritual progress these last 20 years or so, things are shifting so quickly, that what once took a lifetime of practice can be conveyed in a word. Some people are ready with just the slightest nudge, they can move past the ego/emotional entanglement level and get a toehold of their own to reference the duality aspects, the power over and victim games, and already they are moving up and out into the playing field of true potential.

Far more useful (and so much more challenging for ALL of us) is where you started with your first paragraph- the journey begins within our own heart. The very best we can do, is to always encourage, within ourselves, and in service of each other, our liberation from the delusion/illusion that profound truth of our existence can be decoded by sensory organs and processing unit that operates the meat suit we are all wearing is the most unfortunate fallacy we all struggle with. There is no amount of "critical thinking" that will ever connect you to the N O W. The real "PTB" that we all need to consider is the local resident of the sense organs and processor- the one who has a vested interest in maintaining the illusion more than any other entity in the galaxy- our very own, the fiendishly clever, petulant little Gollum we all have hidden inside-

e g o

so when we have suffered enough, when we have endured enough, when our yearning to go home exceeds our pride of our "critical thinking", our impressive knowledge, our "logic" and our "deductive reasoning". When we (finally) are truly fed up with the lies, when we must have the real truth, when we have found the courage, the intent, to expose the little monster, THEN we are ready to burn, ready to die to be free.

Until then, and really, I mean this to all of us, myself included, in the most respectful way- to the magnificent beings that we truly are- until then,

this is all just so much noise.

[Tony]

But this is a wonderful discussion, it keeps coming back to "Who am I?"

We will keep asking that, until we actually find out!

What a beautiful noise.

[Arrowwind]

Some of the greatest medicine men in Native American Culture say that the soul can be captured, and that it can also be annihilated.

I've had a hard time with the annihilation part, not wanting to accept that part at least.

The way I see it is that each soul is on a journey to awakening. Each soul is not equal in experience or learning or comprehending its place in reality. Each soul is subject to very personal pitfalls according to how it endeavors to master its very own reality.

Some human souls have a very debased existence. Others are of great quality and refinement and others everywhere in the spectrums between.

I do think that there are other types of existences other than human... other than human souls... that have a very different experience and agenda for their experience. I do think that these existences can and do interfere with the human journey.

An unevolved soul can become trapped and controlled... even a more evolved being when given significant duress. These are souls who have not mastered their reality to any signficant degree. They can be lost to all that would further their evolvement when abused sufficiently.

There are no absoutes in the universe. To say that a soul is absolutley eternal I think is likely a big mistake, considerding the multidimensionalty of the totality of existence. Its a great ocean out there and learning to navigate is essential. You could end up in a place that does not foster human soul life development, does not nurture, does not heal, does not love, does not safeguard. How long do you think you could last without nurturement, love, healing? Either to receive it or to give it?

All the greatest monestaries on the plant are dedicated to nurturement, love and healing. It is the core of their purpose to uplift themselves and any human who seeks.

Why?

Because it is a race to develop human soul life and to promote it and to expand it and to heal it and to evolve it. Starting with our beliefs and entailing our very DNA while we are in the 3D experience.... and if you think this 3D experience and the DNA you carry is only subject to 3D influence, you might want to reconsider for DNA is imprint on the very matter of your existence.

Life is fragile. Soul life is also fragile. One should not be so arrogant to beleive that they are invincible. They could lead themselves into a rude experience. Invincibility lends to the illusion that nothing really matters but one's own self.

all things matter, both of 3D and other levels of experience.

People are so plagued by thoughts of escape from 3D they fail to realize that what they dont master here they will have to master elsewhere. Why?

To enter into eternity, the godhead, the source, the great spirit, whatever name you wish to ascribe
Its a survival game right on through and into the highest order of existence.

If you win your place in the proverbial heaven or something similar you have done well, you will have further assistence from those beings who have evolved to your level and beyond.
If you default though ill choices in to a personal hell you will have to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps for there is little help there.
Just like living in a drug laden ghetto all is working against you. Points of light are few. Dangers are many to keep you entrapped
in your own delusions. Others endeavor to keep you at your debased level. Your own prayer, your own calling out may go unanswered by yourself and others.

If I trusted that my soul was enternal what would all the strife be for?
What the purpose of all the incarnations?
why endeavor to create love
why endeavor to create compassion
why endeavor to heal self and others

I think that some of us come to a point of realization that we are likely going to make it -
to evolve
to move on into greater dimensions
to become masters of our reality
based on compassion and love

but we know the difference
we know the truth of where we came from
and where we could be if we had not made the choices that we have made

and where those are going that have made ill choices.

Christians believe in a hell like existence for debased souls.
subject to eternal fire.
subject to the pain of never being free

They have the story of satin who is vying to control your soul
to possess your soul
to own your very being
to enslave you to realities that limit the human potential

I think quite a few people (souls) end up in such situations.
Once you cross a certain line there is no help for you
from this human realm.

We all know the power of prayer,
of love of service of compassion
of lending a hand, of sacrificing for another
most of us have lives filled with such evidence.

How many of you have pulled your self up with a helping hand
how many of you would still be in a gutter if not for help

Now consider a reality where no help existed.

I think that there are many places right here on earth
where no help exists... even if you call out.
Biafra
Sudan
Child sex slaves
Prisons
Gangs

countless fall under these repressions
countless go unheard
countless do not heal
countless perpetuate the pain and hate
onto themselves and on to others

and yes, some do survive
some do receive help
why some and not others?

Because some can respond to the offered hand
some can still voice a call for help
some can escape the chains of those who bondage them
but most, the vast majority go to a fate worse than death
into the downward cycle of their depair and annihilation of their very being
for they could not be reached, could not be saved.

Redemption is possible
but you have to find that redeemable place within yourself
a place lost to many
and when you find it you may have to spend eons pulling yourself out

we are at the end of a cycle of time now.
Some believe that at the end of this cycle is the great time of reconning.
some will move closer to the potential of eternal beingness
others will annihilate
and the energy that they contained or expressed will be recycled into the gread round of creation.

I dont know where the truth lies on all of this
but the warning signs are all around
they have always been there
if you are looking

I think that the greatest illusion of all may be in believing
that your spirit is eternal
and that you have a divine right to always exist through all aspects of creation
There is no right that is not won through work, strife and love.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

To put it categorically
I dont believe the soul or any other name you put to it can be captured.

Chris

I gotta stand behind Chris on this one.

If one understands the way "octaves" work in Creation, how that relates to density, matter, ethers and mind, the way it steps down from Source, then it is easy to see that "capturing a soul" or "capturing God" is complete nonsense.

If someone can convince that your soul can be trapped and God can be defeated, they are lacking in fundamental knowledge of how Creation works, but in believing you may be allowing the illusion for your own "captured" soul to persist.

My 2 cents.




I think who we think is "god " is ancient mans interpretation of draconis alien aparitions when they ruled us in closer quaters

The soul is a harvestable energy scource but not for slavery like we stupidly believe by default because of all the negative propaganda.

We are re cyclable interactive learning batteries. When our body vessel dies the soul energy complex leaves back to its original state and gets recycled by our " god " . The caretakers of this logos are the council of 12 which are an extremely advanced race. They exist in multidimention mutispherically.

Our soul goes to a holding chamber where we are de breifed. We then go through a series of experiences to help both the soul and the facilitators decide where to send you next. You agree on an experience to help your soul efolve to a higher vibrationary plane. You must achieve this asmits a rewarding experience.

Slavery? Tell me where any pessimist on any plane that thinks any thing less than being fed grapes with a laurel round your head is slavery.

We all have to evolve. Some enjoy the experience and some decide its a task and feel like a slave. You dont need slaves, helloo?

Greys are manufactured worker bees, new technology, no need to capture souls and go through this long winded conversion program, pfft.

Our imaginations are vast and sometimes work against us.

Born
Experience
Evolve
Die
Rince
Repeat

Hugs

N
N


I am interested if you DeDukshyn could map out to us(or at least to me) this logic of the octaves which seems quite obvious to you and possibly not to others(at least to me) and how it relates to the logic of soul development that NN has sketched out to us in his quote. Do you feel that your views can co-exist with Nanoo Nanoos or are they contradictory? This question is absolutely also directed at Nanoo Nanoo and answer is most wellcome from him as well.

Come to think of it, this can be called :whoo:the Awesome DD - NN Questionnaire ;)


UT


As usual UT you have the mind to cut through and bring good discussion :-) i like your brain, its quite well put together :-)

Interpretations, if they go un checked, can lead to some crazy definitions. I agree with dedukshun in the sonic sence of our make up. Its an astute summary. A logos or vibration is in effect a uni verse. Uni = One Verse = Song vibration. Its a nice way of saying we are one vibration.

We are all one in a broader sence because we are all connected by virty of being made from the same stuff. We are inter connected by this vibrational energy yest oir own perception of reality is unique to our interaction with it which in turn sepperates us or rather gives us the illusion of sepperation. Each soul has a dna complex or matrix. Its a digital number sequence or representation of our accumulated introspective matrix. Some terminology is used merely to give humanoid reference, if i used proper terminology it wouldnt make sense.

Ok so when i say the soul is held in a veswel for de briefing, this is a stark version of what hapoens outside behind the scenes but if you were the soul experiencing it your perception of the experience would be vastly different. Because of the release of chemicals when you die you have an experience designed to releive you of all stress and comfort you as you travel to the " light " .

Because you are pure concioussness you percieve this happening as pure energy but with memory still of a physical body so your form slowly fades back to true fuzzy ball. Ok that my term, souls look like a fuzzy ball of deeply dense energy. Its held together by a memory you created long ago as you were born from the thought of a greater energetic being.

So to facilitate the re birthing or re cycling process we have our dear friends, who are aliens :-) , along with our soul group family collect you because your active past life memory is still functional but there is a confusion process you need guiding through. This is where your soul group family, who you recognise immediately, give you comfort before de briefing and to answer questions.

You then go through a life review. The life flashing before your eyes? You heard this many times? This is said by people who come back to mission as the death was pre mature and decided to come back to complete your personal mission.

All this stuff about greys capturing souls, hmmmm it dosent ring out for me. Im no expert, not on death recycling, im better equipped with energetic sequential or multidimention sonnetics and reverse engineering knowledge. But i do know one thing for sure and we can take this to the bank. There IS a council of 12 over seeing our Logos. Its their responsability to make sure souls are properly processed. They have so much caring in their being for us i cannot phathom them ever letting us get hijacked.

And please you may have whatever view you like but untill you have been introduced to the council of 12 then you will find it hard to define them. This knowledge is a representation of my interpretation of the information ive been up loaded and experienced. And is best and most honest interpretation of that knowledge.

I hope you find it useful :-)

Hugs


N

[Nanoo Nanoo]

One thing i must state for the record. Its hard for us down here to understand some concepts we share on this forum. There is one great reason for this, Love.

The love and oneness you experience in their presence is so outstanding that it completely engulfs any sence of sadness or negativity. Its soooo strong that the very presence of it in your heart gives you understanding of forgiveness and peace in your soul.

Peace and happiness beyond measure. This is the plane they exist in and from where they love us and help us. Ok stop thinking i just smoked a joint and hugging a tree. Its true, the energy down here is sometimes impossible for me and im sure some others to bear, comparatively speaking.

I hope that helps suppliment what goes on.

:-)

N

[Dorjezigzag]

This is from one of the most horrifying scenes in movies, from the genius that is Jim Henson, yes muppet movies can be scary.

This is where the beautiful podlings get drained of their essence in the movie 'The Dark Crystal'.

How many of these walking shells do you see walking around in your average city?

_x9YuEDbrp0

[modwiz]

Language and the towering babble it can create. Soul is a word, one that many different meanings can and are assigned to. It might be worthwhile for people to remember when the concept of soul first entered their awareness. When it first became a concept/idea to work with and ponder. Most of us were around 5 years old when that piece of religious programming entered into us. With few exceptions here, most people will have come from some kind of christian/abrahamic background. Given that much of christian thought is influenced by Buddhism far more than is commonly known, the concepts of soul that come from that sector are not that much different. Back to my main point of age.

The concept of soul that we first embraced as children has not really been built on. There is very little growth in this concept because the idea given to us as children is the whole pie. Now, let us ask ourselves. "Is a concept of soul comprehensible to a 5 year old really an appropriate one for an adult to entertain?"

My own concept of soul is one of consciousness once removed from Source. The first autonomous movement from 'that' Individuality. My soul lives outside of time and is in all places simultaneously. My concept of my soul excedes many of the more childlike concepts of diety. As an Interfaith minister, I find the first spiritual crisis, and one where many get stuck, is when we excede the emotional maturity and benevloence of Yahweh of the OT and the god of the epistles of Paul (he was a Pharisee and may have stayed one) who needs a sufficiently worthy human form to offer itself in bloody sacrifice to make things right with the world. The OT demanded livestock without blemish, that is, the best.

Most of our cosmological programming happens at a very early age and it is deep. In many cases new ideas simply coat the original kernel. Bite hard enough and you have the original problem in your teeth. These original ideas are lodged in our emotional bodies, whereas the newer ones reside in our mental bodies. How much more evidence do we need to see that unworked on emotional bodies are often unruly children that the mental body has little to no sway over. They are meant to work together. It is the important part of any serious spiritual work. Coordination of these closest to physical existence bodies allows for them to then be integrated with higher subtle bodies. Without integration of these bodies we have a fractious family residing within one physical body. The illnesses that can result from this are everywhere to be seen and are making our pharmaceutical corporations rich.

To answer the original question of the OP. No. Some fragmentary aspect perhaps, but the uncapturable part is always there to lead the way out. Not getting stuck identifying ourselves with the extensions of our source will free us of the illusion of the capture in the first place.

[Hervé]

...

“If you want to converse with me: define your terms.”
Voltaire

... how about some definitions?

My bet is that, that unfinished tower at Babel started with the adulteration of words' meanings... that was the end of intelligent co-operations.

So... drawing from Steve Richards:


The Spirit is traumatized through time. Now the Spirit is different than the soul. Most people have no idea of the difference between the Spirit and the soul. Now the soul is linked down the genetic line and the external experiences upon us.
We are a hologram of time, therefore we are harnessing energy in the universe, which is a hologram of time. Now in the hologram of time, let’s take your genetics. I can access the great‐great‐great‐grandmother through a hologram of time, ‘come forward, come forward now.’ Next minute, she’s talking out of your body. Because through you, is a hologram of all the ancestors through time. Now I go to the Spirit, and I can access a hologram of the past, no matter how far back in time your Spirit needs to go.
If thousands of years ago you, through your free will and choice, made an agreement with these beings, the first law in this universe is the law of intent and the second law is the law of agreement. And the law of agreement is valid through time and space for eternity. Until we enfold spacetime on that dimension. So thousands of years ago, hundreds of thousands of years ago, you made an agreement ‐‐ you’re part of rituals ‐‐ then that agreement is still valid today. So you’ll be born under parents that are continually going to set up these scenarios of rituals, and through the rituals what takes place is when your Spirit enters a vehicle, the body, through rituals the first born child, first born child usually, is allocated to THEM. What’s that mean? When the spirit enters, a Draconian enters. Once that Draconian enters it will try and set up trauma for the Spirit. Once the Spirit becomes traumatized, it takes over the vehicle. Thus, it takes over the soul. Now, it uses that vehicle and it will keep the vehicle traumatized through time, as it grows, it has taken over the vehicle and eventually it gets put into the positions of power within this physical world of ours, where they are running human bodies.
I think we’ve got to get away from what everybody keeps on referring to, and that is… the soul. You see, your Spirit came here and chose a vehicle. It didn’t choose to come here and get imprisoned in this vehicle that’s been genetically engineered to amnesia. Now it wants out. See we’re at the end of a big cycle right now.
You see, remember the Spirit’s the internal being that can manifest this universe, and rearrange this universe ‐‐ it can manifest realities. The external to the internal is your soul. So the Spirit is internal to external, the soul is the external to the internal.
My culture’s been saying, you know ever since the beginning of time, we need to keep the Spirit healed, we need to heal the Spirit, we need to heal the land. You go into areas where they’ve totally cleared the rainforest. You’ve got trees that are traumatized. You’ve got the land that’s traumatized. You bring the Spirit of the tree through and it will talk to you out of the body, on the table, it’ll tell you what’s taking place. It’s traumatized. We need to heal the Spirit of the people, and the Spirit of the land. THAT’S the most important part.




Let me just explain a little bit more about the Spirit and the soul. Example here. And, and there’s two examples. What I want to explain is about the programming of the soul. But we’ll get into the Spirit and the soul. I’ve got a model in Europe, she comes out to see me, gets on the catwalk, in front of thousands of people, no problems. But every morning she wakes up with anxiety and doesn’t know why. We get her on the table, her Spirit indicates, “sixteen.” ‘Thank you, go there now.’ “I remember, a friend come and stayed, slept on the lounge room floor, and I felt something happened.” ‘Thank you.’ “I remember,” is the soul.

There are four parts of a person on the table talking to me. There’s the ego, there’s the soul, there’s the Spirit, and there’s the life‐forms trying to justify their existence out of a person. This is the soul. I thank you, I acknowledge that, step aside. ‘Spirit come forward, come forward now, Spirit what took place.’ “He drugged the body, he drugged the body and he raped me, he drugged the body and raped me, I couldn’t wake the body.” The Spirit had that trauma.




Miranda: Wow, so how do these, well, how does the soul and the Spirit and the various co‐creating entities communicate with you? Do they communicate verbally through the person or do you hear them in…?

Steve: No. Verbally through the person. They’ll be speaking out of them. I mean I’ll have things sometimes sitting up on the table, hissing and spitting at me, I’ve had blue eyes turn orange and be yellow slits in them. Nothing surprises me.



Hypnosis accesses the soul. It, it’s hypnotizing the same as you take NLP, you take kinesiology, you take a whole run of other modalities and they’re all accessing the soul. Thus the vehicle is externally in the cellular memory of the being. The Spirit is the nucleus. It accesses… the Spirit is totally different to the soul. I look at the Spirit as saying the spirit is like the nucleus of the atom, and the soul is the electron around the atom.

Now when that comes together to create a molecule there’s a physical being in the reality we’ve got today. When you go to the nucleus, thus the Spirit, then you get into the cause of the effect, and you can change the soul. The soul can’t change the Spirit. So when you go in after the soul, and you’re changing the soul through hypnosis, you deprogram, you reprogram it. You’ve still got a program. We’re not changing the soul. What changes, because the Spirit can change the soul then you’re changing the program in the soul.



Then you get people with human Spirits, soldiers of war, man, look at how many soldiers you got suffering over there. Well I have ex‐Viet vets on the table, forty years after Vietnam War I have Spirits of Viet‐Cong talkin’ out the body. ‘Speak to me in English, what took place?’ They tell me what took place, I enfold space‐time change the past, the present for the future cycle, release the Spirit and instantly that forty years of mental trauma is no longer there. That’s just some of what we’re dealing with. And then there’s the big boys through the rituals.

So you’ve got a whole range of things. You’ve got, you know, you’ve got animal Spirits, you’ve got human Spirits, you’ve got entities, you’ve got Draconians, you’ve got the big, winged‐serpent fellas, the hierarchy, and a whole range of other beings out there we don’t even know what they are. Apart from the alien stuff and, yea. So, there is some of, some of what we’re dealing with.



One of the alien…sorry there, I was just going to say the point you point out there I think it’s very important for people to understand. Because too many people out there, remember, these, these beings that have been manipulating our world have been around for thousands of years. They’ve been manipulating people at the very highest level, so our world has actually been run for thousands of years. But the only way it can get in, through lore, is by agreement. So all these people, when they’re calling in the Gods, their guides, and everything else outside of their reality, are giving power outside of themselves to something outside themselves.

The key is inside yourself. It’s with your Spirit. It’s not outside yourself. The positive beings out there in other dimensions, they know, you cannot interfere with the evolvement of the species. The moment you interfere with the evolvement of a species you enter the game, the moment you enter the game you’re subject to laws of the game, and then you’re trapped in the game. The moment you enter someone else’s game, you’re subject to the laws of that game. Everything in that dimension is in what I call the torus field of that dimension. While you’re in your own field, you’re in your own field. The moment you enter someone else’s space, and someone else’s game, you become subject to the laws of that game. And that’s how you have all these secret societies. You told me about that incident before with the mother and rituals. I guarantee she would have had something manipulating her because, when they get to that higher level of manipulation, the human species believes that what they’re doing is right. Because these beings are manipulating the brain waves of these humans to justify what they’re doing is right. I’ve had people that have sacrificed their own children at rituals, believing it was right. Who’s putting the program in there to believe its right? When your brain is being manipulated by another dimension then, you’ll justify it in any form or any way, because they’re manipulating you into that justification that this is right. These beings are violating lore and they can be dealt with. Anything that defies laws of LORE can be dealt with.

... which ties back to that toilet flushing lady who would keep providing more and more explanations and justifications as to why that toilet needed flushing , becoming more and more irritated at someone questioning her actions (see post # 152 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51678-Can-a-soul-be-captured&p=581646&viewfull=1#post581646)).

And we end up with what 9eagle9 calls knee-jerk reactions and wads in knickers and panties...

As to why my drawing on Steve Richards experience? Simply because he draws it from a 60,000 year old tradition and therefore one that outlasted six times Atlantis to present days "civilizations" time span. That is, far older than any scriptures or invented gods referred to in this thread.

With this, I am done with these "monologues de sourds" since too many of them are mere favorite or pet "party line" parrotings (see post # 152 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51678-Can-a-soul-be-captured&p=581646&viewfull=1#post581646)). And no, I am not excluded of that either since, after all, I am still typing on a keyboard via a body in order to "communicate."

[Buck]

"How much more evidence do we need to see that unworked on emotional bodies are often unruly children that the mental body has little to no sway over. They are meant to work together. It is the important part of any serious spiritual work. Coordination of these closest to physical existence bodies allows for them to then be integrated with higher subtle bodies. "

reminds me of that old saying; Even Mohammed's horse ascended in his presence

[modwiz]

Post deleted to improve the thread.

My apologies to the OP of the post, Amer Zo. Your work deserved better than my assumption, based on the formatting style. My bad.

I think taking a vacation from critique is in order for me. My personal life needs some balancing. It will take some time. I will stay to posting about the world at large, or something like that.

[Bill Ryan]

As to why my drawing on Steve Richards experience? Simply because he draws it from a 60,000 year old tradition and therefore one that outlasted six times Atlantis to present days "civilizations" time span. That is, far older than any scriptures or invented gods referred to in this thread.



Nice cut and paste work. :rolleyes: 9eagle and I (and some others) write our own posts in our own words. Quoting who you agree with is weak.

I (and some others) do not use sarcasm to make points, unlike 9eagle9 and yourself. :)

Quoting high quality external reference material (such as recognized writers, researchers and practitioners) is a valid and important part of Avalon's function. It informs and educates others, and is what research is all about. It's the respected norm in intelligent, academic discussion.

It's not weak, it is strong. If you want to write 100% your own stuff, and heap your own thoughtforms into a doughball of invective that pushes only your own points of view with no external references, then go post on GLP. You would surely be welcome there. (And 9eagle9, without the tiresome tedium of being moderated, would have a field day.)

(I should have said I don't use sarcasm very often. I'll now revert to my own preferred style!)

:focus:

[TOTHE]

I have analyzed the posts here, few have resonated in my perception most have not. There is both fear and love in this prison of illusion that we created and are a part of.

Briefly, as I see it, it all started with a big bang:
In the beginning the spark of intelligence formed from the electromagnetic vibration that was present in the sub quantum level. The intelligent singularity’s focus became energy. When the thought came “What am I’’ became intention and automatically directed the energy and light formed. At that instant the intelligent singularity became conscious, immediately time-space allowed the volume of space for matter to exist that was created from the light in conjunction with sub quantum vibration.

A premise:
Intention and agreement allows the Conscious Soul from the quantum time-space level to form an aspect we call “The Spirit” to inhabit on the physical molecular level a Body of Consciousness. The Conscious Soul seeks the need of “Who am I”, needs the Aspect of Spirit to engage experience with it’s baggage of work, strife, and understanding which springs love.

The quest as a question:
Is there agreement here that the Soul is an hologram of the perfect Consciousness of the Universe?
Is there agreement here that the Soul is perfect, that there is no way it can be trapped, stolen, destroyed or even given away?
Is there agreement that the Aspect of Spirit during it’s journey to earn perfection has to experience all the bad stuff including the sorcery of imprisonment (the point of this thread) within it’s created illusion?
Is there agreement that the illusion we create (that is very, very necessary, no matter how full of strife), because if we don’t, how will we know if the tree ever fell in the f**king forest, else we cease to exist?
Is there agreement then that our Aspect of Spirit is engaged as illusion within the Human collective Consciousness?

A perception:
We made our intention and we are living the agreement... and it is in the now. Other Singularities of Spirit have passed this way before, they watch us from the higher dimensional collectives of consciousness that they have manifested. They watch as we trail blaze finding new venues of experience, and, they do love us more than we will ever know. If we with our Body of Consciousness: listen, see, feel, taste and smell we can sense the echoes and symbols from the Higher Dimensions of Consciousness...they are always, have and will be with us to share the journey. Rule of engagement for acceptance always will be: intention and agreement.

Hey, I just read Bill’s post! I pretend that I am a Scarab Beetle pushing a dung ball. ;)

[modwiz]

As to why my drawing on Steve Richards experience? Simply because he draws it from a 60,000 year old tradition and therefore one that outlasted six times Atlantis to present days "civilizations" time span. That is, far older than any scriptures or invented gods referred to in this thread.



Nice cut and paste work. :rolleyes: 9eagle and I (and some others) write our own posts in our own words. Quoting who you agree with is weak.

I (and some others) do not use sarcasm to make points, unlike 9eagle9 and yourself. :)

Quoting high quality external reference material (such as recognized writers, researchers and practitioners) is a valid and important part of Avalon's function. It informs and educates others, and is what research is all about. It's the respected norm in intelligent, academic discussion.

It's not weak, it is strong. If you want to write 100% your own stuff, and heap your own thoughtforms into a doughball of invective that pushes only your own points of view with no external references, then go post on GLP. You would surely be welcome there. (And 9eagle9, without the tiresome tedium of being moderated, would have a field day.)

(I should have said I don't use sarcasm very often. I'll now revert to my own preferred style!)

:focus:

Point taken. If you don't mind. I will opt to stay here and make an effort to mellow. I have no desire to go to GLP. Original post now scrubbed.

A mea culpa on my part also. I did not do due diligence on the material presented and made a fool of myself in this matter. My coyote medicine at work again. Not much fun when it happens, but it is my path. :doh:

[DNA]

I've never bought into the whole soul catching mechanism on the moon as discussed at length by John Lear. I love Lear and can hang on his every word. Michael newton discusses a possibility in relation to a soul being destroyed. I've heard instances of humans and aliens having their blood drained and their body temperatures lowered for a form of suspended animation and i suppose this would be a form of trapping the soul.

[Chester]

The soul, for me, is residual memory of a Spirit being. It seems possible that a third party could influence a Spirit being such that the Spirit being loses its primary focus as to who/what it is and instead becomes distracted. As the focus of a Spirit being becomes more and more distracted (or diverted) the Spirit being may begin to perceive itself as other than the actual Spirit being it is.

Through this process, the Spirit being enters into "dreams" such as the dream of being in a body that lives in a material realm... an experience which appears finite such that the Spirit being can become further and further distracted to the point it willingly allows itself to descend into a reincarnative loop (such as some believe is the case for most on earth at this time and for many, many lifetimes). Since the Spirit being is actually an eternal being (of course, this is just my opinion) why couldn't that Spirit being bring forth essences of experiences into their future experiences? It is these essences I believe that are behind the creation of "the soul" - the container of a higher form of movement/experience a Spirit being brings with them through the various finite experiences.

Why I believe this view may be true is that by taking this view, I was able to look at the potential lies I told myself (or bought into)... the lies that played a role in creating my previous state of confusion. I then undid most if not close to all these lies. This is not to say I am stating I am no longer still a wee bit confused.

What I am stating though is that I am far less confused and this is demonstrated in my tremendously and rapidly changed life I now experience... the only evidence I have that I might be on the right track. My ego has had to calm down a bit in the process but too bad for that part of my ego I see as unhealthy. I found how one can befriend this "beast" as I do not believe the ego can be eliminated, just made relatively healthy.

The tricky part has been that I have been moving so fast and passing up so many who appear to hang onto attachments... something I found I am getting real good at doing - letting go of attachments. I believe this talent is one of the keys to rapid awakening, perhaps the greatest.

I don't even care when I am seen as some egomaniac or any other label others may place on me (I call this the NancyV lesson as she helped bang this one into my head). In fact, along these lines it is such a massive relief to no longer care at all what anyone else thinks of me, of what I write about... and at the same time to desire and strive to live in positive, right relationship with all and all that is.

I like life. I appreciate my life. I enjoy my life. I enjoy the challenges. I still enjoy the challenge of remaining in a resolved position relative to the "archon" issue and to be able to share how that has been achieved such that others might do so also.

Love to all and Good Night from San Jose, Costa Rica... as they say here, "Pura Vida!" justoneman

[Tony]

The soul, for me, is residual memory of a Spirit being. It seems possible that a third party could influence a Spirit being such that the Spirit being loses its primary focus as to who/what it is and instead becomes distracted. As the focus of a Spirit being becomes more and more distracted (or diverted) the Spirit being may begin to perceive itself as other than the actual Spirit being it is.

Through this process, the Spirit being enters into "dreams" such as the dream of being in a body that lives in a material realm... an experience which appears finite such that the Spirit being can become further and further distracted to the point it willingly allows itself to descend into a reincarnative loop (such as some believe is the case for most on earth at this time and for many, many lifetimes). Since the Spirit being is actually an eternal being (of course, this is just my opinion) why couldn't that Spirit being bring forth essences of experiences into their future experiences? It is these essences I believe that are behind the creation of "the soul" - the container of a higher form of movement/experience a Spirit being brings with them through the various finite experiences.

Why I believe this view may be true is that by taking this view, I was able to look at the potential lies I told myself (or bought into)... the lies that played a role in creating my previous state of confusion. I then undid most if not close to all these lies. This is not to say I am stating I am no longer still a wee bit confused.

What I am stating though is that I am far less confused and this is demonstrated in my tremendously and rapidly changed life I now experience... the only evidence I have that I might be on the right track. My ego has had to calm down a bit in the process but too bad for that part of my ego I see as unhealthy. I found how one can befriend this "beast" as I do not believe the ego can be eliminated, just made relatively healthy.

The tricky part has been that I have been moving so fast and passing up so many who appear to hang onto attachments... something I found I am getting real good at doing - letting go of attachments. I believe this talent is one of the keys to rapid awakening, perhaps the greatest.

I don't even care when I am seen as some egomaniac or any other label others may place on me (I call this the NancyV lesson as she helped bang this one into my head). In fact, along these lines it is such a massive relief to no longer care at all what anyone else thinks of me, of what I write about... and at the same time to desire and strive to live in positive, right relationship with all and all that is.

I like life. I appreciate my life. I enjoy my life. I enjoy the challenges. I still enjoy the challenge of remaining in a resolved position relative to the "archon" issue and to be able to share how that has been achieved such that others might do so also.

Love to all and Good Night from San Jose, Costa Rica... as they say here, "Pura Vida!" justoneman






Hello Chester,

"I like life. I appreciate my life. I enjoy my life. I enjoy the challenges. I still enjoy the challenge of remaining in a resolved position relative to the "archon" issue and to be able to share how that has been achieved such that others might do so also."


When demons become angels there is no going backwards for us. Once we acknowledge the demonic play cannot help itself, compassion arises. ...then they just leave. They leave us because the mind no longer reacts to them..so they no longer have any power over us. It is only when we react, that empowers them...we no longer comply.

This is why forums are valuable, demons work through any weakness, so it gives us a chance to practise!...and it all happens in the mind.




Tony

[Tony]

When Demons become Angels.


There comes a time when demons no longer have power over us. All they can do is tempt us, and at that they are experts, but cannot deal with wisdom. Once we acknowledge the demonic play cannot help itself, compassion arises. ...then they just leave. They leave us because the mind no longer reacts to them or sees them as real..so they no longer have any power over us. It is only our reaction through the emotions, that empowers them...through wisdom we no longer comply.

The wisdom is- that the essence of all emotions, is wisdom. The very first instance of the emotions is the light of Essence. It has seen something. In that moment we can either be reminded of our true nature, or get involved and act out the emotion. At each moment we have a choice, "to be or not to be".


Inner peace.

It does not matter how we get there.
Some find inner peace.
Some do not.
Unshakeable inner peace is something no one can take away from us.

“You are delusional!” you might say.
“Yes, yes...but all things must pass -fortunately,” is my reply.
Birth and death are natural: the body naturally wears out.
If we can just accept this, inner peace naturally arises.

“You are delusional!”
“Yes, yes...come and have tea,” is my reply.
Birth and death happen at every moment: we are constantly creating a self.
Then it collapses for a moment while we come to our senses,
and then we create a new one from our old ideas.

“You are delusional!”
“Yes, yes, but I know it, and in that very knowing, delusion collapses.”

“You are delusional!”
“...and I am at peace.”

[DNA]

When Demons become Angels.


There comes a time when demons no longer have power over us. All they can do is tempt us, and at that they are experts, but cannot deal with wisdom. Once we acknowledge the demonic play cannot help itself, compassion arises. ...then they just leave. They leave us because the mind no longer reacts to them or sees them as real..so they no longer have any power over us. It is only our reaction through the emotions, that empowers them...through wisdom we no longer comply.

The wisdom is- that the essence of all emotions, is wisdom. The very first instance of the emotions is the light of Essence. It has seen something. In that moment we can either be reminded of our true nature, or get involved and act out the emotion. At each moment we have a choice, "to be or not to be".



I don't know your definition of demon, but it is my opinion that unseen forces asail us constantly. It is such an accepted part of our lifestyle that it would be socially unacceptable to be demon free, if in fact we might agree that demon's are beings that live and take part of our essense, chi, life force and do so through taking advantage of our habits.

Folks that have existed perhaps momentarilly in a demon free state are normally those who purge all societal norms. Henry David Thoreau, Lao Tzu, John The Baptist, Buhhda, Jesus and possibly folks who have managed to form whole communities around this pursuit like the Essene Brotherhood and certain hardcore folks in various monestaries that are requiring extreme observation in this pursuit.



Inner peace.

It does not matter how we get there.
Some find inner peace.
Some do not.
Unshakeable inner peace is something no one can take away from us.

“You are delusional!” you might say.
“Yes, yes...but all things must pass -fortunately,” is my reply.
Birth and death are natural: the body naturally wears out.
If we can just accept this, inner peace naturally arises.

“You are delusional!”
“Yes, yes...come and have tea,” is my reply.
Birth and death happen at every moment: we are constantly creating a self.
Then it collapses for a moment while we come to our senses,
and then we create a new one from our old ideas.

“You are delusional!”
“Yes, yes, but I know it, and in that very knowing, delusion collapses.”

“You are delusional!”
“...and I am at peace.”

I mean no ill will when I say I agree with a certain amount of being dilusianal in this regard. I think many teachers in spirituality think they are demon free due to the increased energy stores they have from their role in leading groups of people, or ingaging in public speaking.
I think this is the danger in regards to spiritual teachers, more times than not, you have some one giving you words and taking away something more important.
More often than not, I believe the lessons that are needed to be completed in this regard, must be done so alone.

I always enjoy your words Tony, Take care :)

[Tony]

When Demons become Angels.


There comes a time when demons no longer have power over us. All they can do is tempt us, and at that they are experts, but cannot deal with wisdom. Once we acknowledge the demonic play cannot help itself, compassion arises. ...then they just leave. They leave us because the mind no longer reacts to them or sees them as real..so they no longer have any power over us. It is only our reaction through the emotions, that empowers them...through wisdom we no longer comply.

The wisdom is- that the essence of all emotions, is wisdom. The very first instance of the emotions is the light of Essence. It has seen something. In that moment we can either be reminded of our true nature, or get involved and act out the emotion. At each moment we have a choice, "to be or not to be".



I don't know your definition of demon, but it is my opinion that unseen forces asail us constantly. It is such an accepted part of our lifestyle that it would be socially unacceptable to be demon free, if in fact we might agree that demon's are beings that live and take part of our essense, chi, life force and do so through taking advantage of our habits.

Folks that have existed perhaps momentarilly in a demon free state are normally those who purge all societal norms. Henry David Thoreau, Lao Tzu, John The Baptist, Buhhda, Jesus and possibly folks who have managed to form whole communities around this pursuit like the Essene Brotherhood and certain hardcore folks in various monestaries that are requiring extreme observation in this pursuit.



Inner peace.

It does not matter how we get there.
Some find inner peace.
Some do not.
Unshakeable inner peace is something no one can take away from us.

“You are delusional!” you might say.
“Yes, yes...but all things must pass -fortunately,” is my reply.
Birth and death are natural: the body naturally wears out.
If we can just accept this, inner peace naturally arises.

“You are delusional!”
“Yes, yes...come and have tea,” is my reply.
Birth and death happen at every moment: we are constantly creating a self.
Then it collapses for a moment while we come to our senses,
and then we create a new one from our old ideas.

“You are delusional!”
“Yes, yes, but I know it, and in that very knowing, delusion collapses.”

“You are delusional!”
“...and I am at peace.”

I mean no ill will when I say I agree with a certain amount of being dilusianal in this regard. I think many teachers in spirituality think they are demon free due to the increased energy stores they have from their role in leading groups of people, or ingaging in public speaking.
I think this is the danger in regards to spiritual teachers, more times than not, you have some one giving you words and taking away something more important.
More often than not, I believe the lessons that are needed to be completed in this regard, must be done so alone.

I always enjoy your words Tony, Take care :)




You are right, while we are still just sentient beings, we will not be free of demons ( demons, being thoughts in my minds of likes and dislikes that lay in ambush), but instead of taking them seriously (which give them a power they do not deserve) one can be light hearted about it...'Ah there "I" go again!"


There are many many levels of understanding this, many subtleties to this. These likes and dislike, is consciousness clinging to some idea, this is called ego. However this very ego can awaken us to what is going on in the mind/consciousness. To merely rest in essence, and that is merely resting in pure awareness, is still and dry, but now we can play with the expression of essence, because the emotions are not so much in charge.

It is true that a system is a crutch...a very useful crutch, but then we really have to really feel a situation, really feel the emotions.
intense emotions, intense intelligence and intense compassion are our tools.

Outer demons need our compassion too, they are just confused. In resting in pure awareness, this creates space, peaceful empty space.



Drubwang Tsoknyi Rinpoche 1.

Don't wander, don't wander, place mindfulness on guard;
Along the road of distraction, Mara lies in ambush.
Mara is this mind, clinging to like and dislike;
So look into the essence of this magic, free from dualistic fixation.
Realise that your mind is unfabricated primal purity.
There is no buddha elsewhere; look at your own face.
There is nothing else to search for, rest in your own place.
Non-meditation is spontaneous perfection, so capture the royal seat.

























Tony

[mahalall]

The mitocondria contain our DNA. The DNA contains all our memory reserves at all levels. Transfer the DNA from the cell, or the cell/organ and one transfers the memory.

Simple example, conscious transference in the area organ donation. The donors consciousness/spirit can be and is often transferred to the recipient with often shocking effects.

Capturing a soul through biological engineering.

This patent that makes one ponder,
http://www.google.com/patents/US4681839

A system to maximize the probability of preserving living tissue separated from its host organism. The system includes a bag or other container to receive a liquid solution plus a biscuit that supplies both nutrients and other materials ordinarily supplied to the tissue by the host, as well as additional material helpful to the tissue during the sub-acute postraumatic period. The nutrients and other materials are introduced to the solution by a biscuit that is formed of the various necessary ingredients. The biscuit introduced to the solution containing the living tissue slowly dissolves therein. An outer housing receives the bag or other container with its contents

[Nanoo Nanoo]

One thing is for sure, we all have an interpretation of how we will die and re incarnate.

Im betting we are all correct.

N

[DeDukshyn]

To put it categorically
I dont believe the soul or any other name you put to it can be captured.

Chris

I gotta stand behind Chris on this one.

If one understands the way "octaves" work in Creation, how that relates to density, matter, ethers and mind, the way it steps down from Source, then it is easy to see that "capturing a soul" or "capturing God" is complete nonsense.

If someone can convince that your soul can be trapped and God can be defeated, they are lacking in fundamental knowledge of how Creation works, but in believing you may be allowing the illusion for your own "captured" soul to persist.

My 2 cents.




I think who we think is "god " is ancient mans interpretation of draconis alien aparitions when they ruled us in closer quaters

The soul is a harvestable energy scource but not for slavery like we stupidly believe by default because of all the negative propaganda.

We are re cyclable interactive learning batteries. When our body vessel dies the soul energy complex leaves back to its original state and gets recycled by our " god " . The caretakers of this logos are the council of 12 which are an extremely advanced race. They exist in multidimention mutispherically.

Our soul goes to a holding chamber where we are de breifed. We then go through a series of experiences to help both the soul and the facilitators decide where to send you next. You agree on an experience to help your soul efolve to a higher vibrationary plane. You must achieve this asmits a rewarding experience.

Slavery? Tell me where any pessimist on any plane that thinks any thing less than being fed grapes with a laurel round your head is slavery.

We all have to evolve. Some enjoy the experience and some decide its a task and feel like a slave. You dont need slaves, helloo?

Greys are manufactured worker bees, new technology, no need to capture souls and go through this long winded conversion program, pfft.

Our imaginations are vast and sometimes work against us.

Born
Experience
Evolve
Die
Rince
Repeat

Hugs

N
N


I am interested if you DeDukshyn could map out to us(or at least to me) this logic of the octaves which seems quite obvious to you and possibly not to others(at least to me) and how it relates to the logic of soul development that NN has sketched out to us in his quote. Do you feel that your views can co-exist with Nanoo Nanoos or are they contradictory? This question is absolutely also directed at Nanoo Nanoo and answer is most wellcome from him as well.

Come to think of it, this can be called :whoo:the Awesome DD - NN Questionnaire ;)


UT

I'm not sure if I'm fully qualified, nor have proficiency to explain the whole thing in a post - in fact no, I can't.

But I will say that Nanoo's interpretation is similar to mine for within the octave we currently inhabit. The best I can describe it, and hence why I use the term "octave" is to relate all existence to music. You can play your song in whatever vibrational arena you want to, currently, we only know how to play in this octave -- the realm of physicality. Our minds project from the first "octave" (the Ripple of the First Cause), but only currently functions in this physical realm, because of the feedback loop we allow between our senses, ego and mind.

This is where the idea of "densities" comes from in new age talk, although it is clear that few understands the origins of this concept.

This current "octave" we occupy exclusively is extremely strong with the forces of separation and contains a range of densities, from solid to thoughtform, the one above it is less solid, and the on above that less so, until your reach God. The "octaves" are fully separated.

Think of the layer between octaves as a step down transformer, that reduces the power of God (allows separation of His frequencies) at each step, allowing the forces of separation to influence each more strongly than the next as apparent proximity from God is increased (the "seperation" becomes more potent on each step down octave). The mythical "Fall of Man" is a reference to the mind of Man falling through these layered densities until it could only function in the one we are in.

I'm only explaining one tiny minuscule part of this concept -- it ties in so much of absolutely everything else that most things can be more easily understood inside this concept. I would have to write a book to tie it all in.

I hope that helps a little bit ... ;)

There is another member here who speaks of this "octaves" as I do, it intrigued me because I see very few people employing this consideration. His/her name escapes me right now, but they seemed fairly knowledgeable in the subject.

I didn't explain that nearly as well as it should be done ... I need diagrams and real life examples, and about 10 pages of post texts ... :(

[Star Tsar]

Hey guys how do you lot feel about the "light" reported by many in near death expriences?
Could this be the very mechanism that captures souls?
I don't believe it has been mentioned thus far on this thread!
According to Robert Morning Sky (I don't know how the forum feels about him) it is!

@ 22:22 he talks about the light tunnel!




http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GUmL0PBGL38

[DNA]

You are right, while we are still just sentient beings, we will not be free of demons ( demons, being thoughts in my minds of likes and dislikes that lay in ambush), but instead of taking them seriously (which give them a power they do not deserve) one can be light hearted about it...'Ah there "I" go again!"



I absolutely agree here. :)
We might as well handle the situation with humor and detachment if at all possible.
I will absolutely give you that.
I've been guilty on more than a few occasions of taking this crap too seriously and getting a tad marose and morbid.

To be quite honest, I don't think there is any reason to fret about this stuff at all.
I think this stuff is inherit in incarntion, and I honestly believe we as souls knew what we were getting into before we came here.
We may have even had a bit to do with deciding the proclavity of the beings we would be intimate with in that regard. A tad like putting on clothing really.

I'm curious if this is the case in all physical incarnation, or if the rules change planet to planet.
Do the rules change when considering incarnational density?
Do some cultures figuire this whole thing out and apply a technological remedy?
I wonder sometimes if the atmospheric application of gold as attributed to the Summarian Gods by Sitchin was in fact more for this situation instead of the ozone layer depletion.








Hey guys how do you lot feel about the "light" reported by many in near death expriences?
Could this be the very mechanism that captures souls?
I don't believe it has been mentioned thus far on this thread!
According to Robert Morning Sky (I don't know how the forum feels about him) it is!

@ 22:22 he talks about the light tunnel!


Hi KWB

I love MorningSky, I've read the Terra Papers, good stuff.
I've gone down this path, and I've just got to say no.
For so many freaking reasons.
Instead of taking forever to explain I'll just state that I've had some luck, and it really was luck at first in crossing ghosts over. How to see a ghost for your self (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21695-How-To-See-A-Ghost-For-Your-Self&p=233517&viewfull=1#post233517)

And secondly, rather than believing in something that has so very little to correlate with it, I would rather believe in something that is correlated by the thousands. This is the best version of the story but it by no means is singular or stand alone.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNbdUEqDB-k

[Star Tsar]

Well I've never been much of a consensus follower so I think I'll have a look round first!

;)

[skippy]

At each moment we have a choice, "to be or not to be".

Great thread Folks. Not to oversimplify things, but is it really that simple? Does it really boils down to this famous question: To be or not to be?

[Flash]

At each moment we have a choice, "to be or not to be".

Great thread Folks. Not to oversimplify things, but is it really that simple? Does it really boils down to this famous question: To be or not to be?

Skippy, Much too french, your question....:p for the topic. I do not understand an englishmen has bought into this (Pin'eal) lol

Évidemment, ceci n'est que pour taquiner que j'écris.

[greybeard]

At each moment we have a choice, "to be or not to be".

Great thread Folks. Not to oversimplify things, but is it really that simple? Does it really boils down to this famous question: To be or not to be?


It is this simple " Be kind to all life including your own no matter what"

Chris

[OZ.]

This clearly shows the lack of understanding of the difference between consciousness and true being.

There are electrical impulses in the brain, these are created by the mind = consciousness via the senses. This is your 'normal' mechanical human being. Ordinary human beings who react to everything around them. They either accept everything around them or reject everything around them. They are easily led!

This brings us to the question of a soul or true being. This is not a thing, it has no dimensions, it cannot even be said to 'exist' as we normally think of things...so it cannot be effected by anything. It is pure awareness.




Great thread !! Hello every one :)


I like the way you describe the separation between consciousness and true being.


It's so difficult to grasp those things with the mind, cause "it's not in the mind domain".

The mind is a great tool for this 3 dimensions reality that is an illusion (holographic reality).

But sometimes we get caught in the words, for me the consciousness is a state of being that

allow this vehicle ( body/mind (hello Icke ) to experience what is infinite.

As i feel it, how come it can be affected, this vehicle, this body, this aura can be affected cause

it's an illusion :)


Is that simple?


We can talk about dna and this and that witch is great, but sometimes we human beings became

so complicated, maybe it's why we can't connect to the simplicity, the frequency don't matches.

[Tony]

Whatever our views, whatever our beliefs, whatever we know, which is the accumulation of all your experiences is right, and relevant to us, and to no one else. Being aware that whatever our view, belief, knowledge, there is that which is aware of all this...this is awareness...this is the final you...this pure silent awareness.

This awareness is aware of the outer world, and in the awareness itself. The experiences this “I” has will be different for every individual. There are things I do not agree with my teacher as we come from different backgrounds.

However this pure silent awareness is, just pure silent awareness. However because we are not enlightened (yet) there will be variations in the quality of purity of this awareness.

There comes a time when we must trust in this awareness, this knowingness. It 'knows'. It may not know what is going on around the corner (that is back in the dream- physical world) it is just a knowingness. In our physical-dream world all sort of things will occur, rough, smooth, beneficial, not beneficial, clarity, fogginess. These occur moment to moment, day in day out.

What appears to us occurs because of the programming we have set up, through our collection of ideas, over a very long period of time. It's a sort of filter. This is something we just have to accept. There are good days, not so good days! They are neither right or wrong, they are merely appearances.

The point is trust not in what you know, but in the knowingness, the pure awareness, now.
This could be your last breath!

Two days ago I was driving and sucking a sweet. I breathed in, and the sweet became lodged in my wind pipe. I could neither breathe in or out, I could not even choke. With this held breath, I swung the car onto the verge, stopped, got out and went down on all fours. I only had moments! I relaxed to find some way of getting air in behind the sweet...it wasn't working. I knew that if the sweet didn't come out in the next couple of moments panic might set in.

As I'm writing this, the outcome was good...the sweet shot out!

At the time I had no path, no words, nothing, just awareness of knowingness.
That is all we need, that is all we are.




Know thyself to be pure awareness, know others to be pure awareness.
Tony

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Look whatever happens when you get up there have a quick look around. Ill be parked in a green utility with the engine running. If you dont like what you see jump in the back and ill take you to my space bar for a drink and nibblies :-)

N

[greybeard]

Know that all thoughts are untrue--every single word of it.
That takes some getting hold of.
That has come at me recently from Adyashanti and remembered from "A Course in Miracles"
Sometimes have to hear things over and over again.

When Adyashanti awakened he said "Oh thats what my teacher has been patiently telling me for the past 14 years."
Hope for me yet---smiling.
So on topic---everything except pure awareness is illusion ( there is nothing that awareness needs to be aware of) so there is no separate soul to be captured and nothing separate to catch it.

Chris

[Tony]

I don't know if this will help anyone.

When on retreat and the pointing out instruction is given on the nature of mind, we do a simple exercise of coming in and out of pure awareness. We alternate between vacancy and awareness.
Vacancy is open consciousness in the mind, but there is no knowing. Whereas awareness which is empty/pure has a knowing quality.

So the instruction is, “in” “out”.....”in”..........”out'. This is so we get to “know” the difference. Quite often we get shouted at for being 'in' when we should be 'out', this is because it's nice being 'in', just being aware!

There can be clarity in the mind, but it will lack knowingness, it will only be aware of knowing something. Whereas clarity is essence will have a knowing quality, and can express itself...that's the love bit!

However clarity in the mind is not at all bad or wrong, it merely has to go to the next step....being aware of itself, and letting be, not modifying anything. That's it!

Sometimes we 'get' it sometimes we do not, either way, we will get there. It's a bit like trying to hit a gong,...miss...miss....bong!....miss....Bong!!

It is just a matter of becoming familiar with being out of the dream. It can be a little unnerving, especially when dealing with others. There is so much around us that is confused, this is why we have to get to 'know' awareness now!

That is why we have to keep banging the gong...Bong!;)

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Hey pie n eel, glad you didnt bigt the big one the other day :-)

True how knowing your self counts most at these times.

Smiles

N

[Daughter of Time]

To the best of my knowledge, awareness and memories, a soul can be captured.

This has been the aim of the dark side all along, to capture souls to do their bidding, to enslave them, to win them over.

In my past life regressions, I have witnessed this. One particular life in Egypt circa 2500 years ago was very pivotal for me. It was a time of power and lost power. The loss was caused by the dark side.

In that regression I witnessed things which at the time I would rather not have witnessed. I was not participant nor victim. I simply witnessed the acts as if I was travelling back in time, invisible to those who were performing the acts.

The dark side tortured their victims horribly, inflicting unspeakable pain in order to enslave their souls. The soul did not become free when the body finally died. The soul was enslaved and programmed to carry out one single task - to persecute whoever was chosen to be persecuted - to persecute them life after life after life.

In a tiny nutshell, this is what I witnessed.

I have to believe that those souls will one day free themselves and that the persecuted will be free of them.

But those who were tortured and given the task to persecute others, are still doing that work now.

Those were captured souls.

[Tony]

If we believe in something, that belief then has a power over us. It is called make-believe, it is a game children play.

Believing 'we' can be hijacked, hitchhicked, captured, voodooed, is true of the thinking mind, that's what the media do all the time. But how can our very essence which is beyond time and space, an infinite none thing, ever be effected by something so trivial?

There is body...that can be captured, though it is impermanent.
There is mind...that can be captured, though it is impermanent.
There is essence... beyond the concept of existing and none existing.

Where is this soul, and what captures it?




Yours living in a crazy world,
Tony

[Tony]

Here is someone who can show you how to capture a mind.


IMHkANhhFvE

[Tony]

Because we focus on money or wealth, two things are happening, one we get into debt, the other is our focusing. This is a diversion of our precious energy! Though everything looks like it is all about finance, it is in mind control. Propaganda is a parasite in the mind.
The digital age has speeded this up.

Why bother to controlling one person's mind, when everyone can be mind controlled at once!

(please excuse the silly music)
HHG0XHfKYbE

[greybeard]

Just thinking on the heading -- Can the soul be captured?

All I can say if one keeps heading down dark alley ways sooner or later one gets mugged.

Best just to be single minded and stay in the light.

Chris

[Hughe]

The bright light after death is reset program for the programmed souls. Soul harvest is memory implant. They do not want to souls get wise and powerful after each life. So what they invented is to suppress, inject false memory into souls' mind during their life times. Abused souls when they got out of dead body are afraid of the weird state of existence. So when they see bright light, they are drawn into, literally sucked and memory is erased again. Just choose "Love and light!, everything will fine." Make them blank mind, put into baby bodies.

Those babies once again will be used, wasted, and exploited as resources for them. Replace [They] into the God, race, government, society, whatever. It's a invisible soul sucker, the perpetuating system beyond time and space. As long as the soul is stuck under the false memories, it will remain as slave. "[God/government/science] save us!"

Mind masturbation leads to dead. I bet who thinks "Everything is illusion. Love and light." and stop expanding oneself, would be used again in next life.

I'm pretty sure non-physical realms are complex, spectacular places to be. Awakened soul mostly stay there and learn as much as it can before starting new journey. It totally makes sense. Isn't each soul is cocreator of universe?

[lookbeyond]

Hi Hughe- will you elaborate a little for beginners, do you have information to help me understand this theory of deception as i would like to understand,

Kind Reguards lookbeyond

[sangstar1]

Very difficult question to answer, I don’t know

[Tony]

The bright light after death is reset program for the programmed souls. Soul harvest is memory implant. They do not want to souls get wise and powerful after each life. So what they invented is to suppress, inject false memory into souls' mind during their life times. Abused souls when they got out of dead body are afraid of the weird state of existence. So when they see bright light, they are drawn into, literally sucked and memory is erased again. Just choose "Love and light!, everything will fine." Make them blank mind, put into baby bodies.

Those babies once again will be used, wasted, and exploited as resources for them. Replace [They] into the God, race, government, society, whatever. It's a invisible soul sucker, the perpetuating system beyond time and space. As long as the soul is stuck under the false memories, it will remain as slave. "[God/government/science] save us!"

Mind masturbation leads to dead. I bet who thinks "Everything is illusion. Love and light." and stop expanding oneself, would be used again in next life.

I'm pretty sure non-physical realms are complex, spectacular places to be. Awakened soul mostly stay there and learn as much as it can before starting new journey. It totally makes sense. Isn't each soul is cocreator of universe?











Where did this 'information' come from?

[Tony]

So-called death.

This is from the Tibetan Buddhist point of view...it's quite colourful! Facing death and beyond is really a psychological event, it is as natural as birth, so that's ok.

What we call death is called Bardo in Tibetan, meaning gap..in between. There is the bardo experience happening all the time - it's part of our psychological make-up. We see life as one continuous event. 'This is my life'. But it's more like a cine film with individual frames, held together by karma. Karma is the glue that holds it all together, maintained be 'consciousness' at a gross level. Each moment there is a gap for a new life, but we hold on dearly to what we think we are because we are used to it. It's so familiar it seems real...!?

There are six psychological profiles for sentient beings: human, animal, hungry ghost, jealous God and God realm. These are attitudes we hold. Each has both a wisdom style and neurotic style.

There are six major bardo moments. Bardo of life, bardo of dying, bardo of after life, bardo of becoming, bardo of dream and the bardo of meditation.

Depending on the training one has done in one's life time will dictate what is recognised in the bardo states. This is why repetition of practice is so important. These bardo moments are moments one can recognise one true nature and become enlightened. Or, go to a higher realm to complete training. Or, which is what normally happens to sentient beings, we fear the bright lights and try to escape them, not being able to face the truth.

The so-called death period lasts for up to 49 days or seven weeks more or less. Most of us are driven on by karma, our neurotic style. Practitioners recognise that all projections as have“NO” reality.

The basis of these six psychological profiles are buddhas wisdoms: they are your essence. But the profiles also have a negative side. These Buddhas are represented by deities of brilliant coloured lights. In the first week after death, each deity will come towards you as a light. These are of peaceful in appearance, and will invite you to recognise the projection as your true nature. If you recognise this, you will become a buddha. At the same time a soft coloured light of our neurosis will appear, but it is inviting you to the lower realm of the negative aspect of the deity.

In the second week the deities return in their wrathful aspect: this is intense love, to prevent you from becoming distracted. If you looked up Avalokiteshvara and Mahakala they are one and the same, the peaceful side and the wrathful side. You always have a choice. That's if you know you have a choice.

After that, it's a matter of choosing a new incarnation - but again, because we practised just reacting in life, we are driven on by our self imposed karma. It is said the precious human life is as difficult to achieve as a blind turtle coming up from the bottom of the ocean once every hundred years and sticking its head through a rubber ring floating on the surface.

You can now see why reacting through emotions: fear, pride, anger, jealousy, desire and ignorance can cause us much suffering and little or no control.

What we have to see is that this so-called death process is happening all the time, and it is our consciousness that is holding this illusion together.




Tony

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Recognising the death process.
This is a Tibetan Bardo supplication by Kunga Paljor. Translated by Gerardo Abboud.

It is a short prayer, but it also describes the process of so-called death, the intermediate state and reincarnation. You may think its all rubbish, that's ok, it doesn't hurt to glance through it. It does need a commentary to go with it, but this maybe helpful on its own, though there is more details available, from other sources. My basic source comes from Trungpa's Tibetan Book of the Dead, but I have been to many teachings on the subject.

It is basically is a reminder of what to lookout for.

One of the problems I have found in life, is that you cannot ask questions on a subject you did not know existed. Basically if one can recognise that everything is our own projection, we can either become enlightened or go to a higher realm to finish ones practice.

We have all been through this before but simply forget. We forget because we still believe and hold onto everything as being real/solid. It is that simple. There is more to this reincarnation business than meets the eye. I suppose it could seem like a nightmare, if you believe this is all to be real!


Namo mahamudraya,

1. Comprehending all phenomena as illusory,
Free from impure illusion, you discovered the pure kayas.
Leader who guide illusory beings,
To your illusory form I go for refuge.

2. Lord,who has an illusory body,
Bless me and all beings tricked by illusion,
So that, undeceived by illusory phenomena,
We recognise the nature of illusion.

3. At the time of discarding this transient illusory body,
Bless us so that by cutting all ties of attachment, aversion and grasping,
And resting naturally in unfabricated mind essence,
We take death as the path.

4. At death, outer phenomena cease:
Sight and the rest of the five senses gradually stop,
And forms and the rest of the objects dissolve one by one.
When this happens, bless us to recognise the stages of dissolution.

5. As earth,water,fire and air dissolve into consciousness,
Vitality wanes, one is thirsty and mouth ans nose dry up,
warmth fades, breathing shortens and rattles.
At that time, bless us to take the pain of dying as the path.

6. Consciousness dissolves into luminosity and the outer breath stops,
While the inner breath continues during the four instants:
Appearance, increase, attainment, and great luminosity.
Bless us to recognise them, one by one.

7. The inner sign of appearance is smoke like, the outer sign the rising moon,
And the thirty-three concepts deriving from aggression subside.
Bless us that, at this time,
We remain clear, alert and determined.

8. The inner sign of increase, is like fireflies, the outer sign the rising sun,
And the forty concepts deriving from passion subside.
Bless us that, at this time,
Aware and mindful, we recognise them.

9. The inner sign of attainment is like a burning lamp,
The outer is blackness, like an eclipse,
And the seven concepts deriving from ignorance subside.
Bless us that, at this time, we recognise all with perfect attention.

10. When the fourth instant, the great luminosity, dawns,
The inner sign is like a cloudless sky,
And the outer sign is like the break of day.
Bless us that, at this time, mother and child luminosity merge.

11. If consciousness does not rest there but instead shifts
To the navel, in between eyebrows, cranium, nose, ears,
eyes urinary tract, anus or mouth,
Bless us to block these nine and open the one exit.

12. Gods of desire, form or formless; or gods, jealous gods,
Humans, animals, hell beings or hungry ghosts;
Bless us that we close the doors to rebirth as these,
And dakas and dakinis welcome us in the celestial realms.

13. If consciousness were to wonder in the bardo,
Then, not knowing we are dead, we will despair of relatives and friend,
Who don't respond even though we want to relate to them.
Bless us that , at this time,the ties of attachment and aversion are severed.

14. When, endowed with full sense faculties and miraculous karmic power,
One may go anywhere unimpeded,
Except to Mount Meru, Vajrasana and one's mother's womb,
Bless us that we know it all to be an illusion.

15. Sun and moon are invisible and the body casts no shadow.
Just by thinking, one can go around the billion solar systems,
Helpless, like a feather blown about by the wind.
When this happens, bless us to master our own minds.

16. One feeds on smell, and the mind rapidly flickers.
When myriad deluded experiences occur,
And afraid and sad we become depressed,
Bless us that we recognise these as delusions.

17. At times, remembrance is extremely clear,
But immediately one forgets,
And one doubts whether one is dead or alive.
When this happens, bless us to know we are unequivocally dead.

18. Three and a half days after death,
One realises one is dead,
And, depressed and disheartened, seek a refuge.
Bless us to know, at that time, our own awareness to be the refuge.

19. When we realise that state is the bardo,
Visualizing our body as the deity, then meditate on luminosity,
And further meditating on their indivisibility,
Bless us that, by this, the pure illusory form arises.

20. When terrifies at collapsing mountains, raging oceans, blazing forests,
And the sound resembling the howling gale at the end of times,
Roaring together with a thousand thunders,
Bless us to perceive these as the natural sounds of reality.

21. When the five coloured light rays clash and shine,
And from seeming spheres of light of all sizes,
Appear terrifying wrathful forms roaring orders to strike and kill,
Bless us to perceive these, our own projections, as the deity.

22. When, terrified, we feel we are plummeting
Into the abyss of the whiteness, redness and blackness,
Arising from passion, aggression and ignorance,
Bless us to perceive this, our own projection, as pure.

23. When the body of our next birth takes form,
And the white, red, yellow, blue and black lights,
Of gods, humans, animals, hungry ghosts and hell beings appear,
Bless us to know these five pathways one by one.

24. When seeing gods enjoying sensual pleasures in celestial palaces,
Lakes adorned with swans, royal bulls and horses,
And in a mansion our parents in union,
Bless us that attraction, aversion and jealousy are purified.

25. When, driven by gale, rain, clouds heat and cold,
We approach a cave, a ravine a wooden log, and so forth,
And feel like entering them to find refuge.
Bless us that we know these to be bad places for rebirth.

26. Seeing house of slaughter, fire or iron,
Attracted to them, we feel like entering.
Bless us to recognise our own nature and be fearless,
And so turn away from these bad places for rebirth.

27. Envy and jealousy in the case of birth through womb or egg;
Attraction to smell and taste in the case of birth by warmth and moisture;
Or attachment to the places of miraculous birth;
When these arise, bless us to have no desire, aversion and craving.

28. When seeing one's parents, or the other modes of birth,
Bless us that, free of attraction or aversion, knowing these to be illusory
And remembering the recognition of the natural state,
Without clinging, we close the door to the womb.

29. If, unsuccessful, we are to take birth,
Bless us that, upon remembering,
We are born in Sukhavati, Tu****a or Abhirati;
Or as a chakavartin, or in the bramin caste.

30. As soon as we are born, may we remember our previous life,
And have the fortune of practising the Mahayana Dharma.
Through love, may we generate the purely altruistic attitude,
And persevering, quickly attain enlightenment.

31. By the blessing power of the buddhas and bodhisattvas,
The pure nature of absolute reality,
And also our pure wishes,
May we achieve these aspirations as expressed.


(When it talks of the red and white elements, these are the reversing elements of the mother and father seeds. I think the red descends from the throat, and the white ascend from the navel. They meet in the heart centre and that is when a blackness occurs, so from then one is unconscious for three and a half days.)















Tony

[Tarka the Duck]

We constantly have to expand and refine our understanding. This is from Alexander Berzin's site, where he is considering the interesting phenomenon of traditional teachings being "watered down", and the cherry picking of key points along with the avoidance of others that may be less palatable:

Buddhism becomes "Dharma-Lite" when:

the aim is to improve only in this life;
the student has little or no understanding of the Buddhist teachings on rebirth;
consequently, the student has neither belief nor interest in future lives;
even if the student believes in rebirth, he or she does not accept the existence of the six realms of rebirth;


The "Real Thing Dharma" is the authentic traditional practice of Buddhism, in which:

the student at least acknowledges the importance of rebirth on the spiritual path and has the sincere wish to gain a correct understanding of it;
the student aims either for liberation from uncontrollably recurring rebirth or for enlightenment and the ability to help all others gain liberation;
even if the student aims for improving future lives, this is merely as a provisional step on the path to gaining liberation or enlightenment;
even if the student aims for improving this life, this is merely as a provisional step on the path to improving future lives and gaining liberation or enlightenment.


http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/approaching_buddhism/introduction/dharma_lite.html

[Fred Steeves]

18. Three and a half days after death,
One realises one is dead,
And, depressed and disheartened, seek a refuge.
Bless us to know, at that time, our own awareness to be the refuge.


Hi Tony, this one in particular jumps out at me. It makes sense that if we are able to take refuge in our awareness in "life", then we will be able to take refuge in our awareness in "death". Or to invoke a bit of related Hermetic teachings: As below so above, as above so below.

Our time in death is no more sacred or mysterious than in life. Hell, for all we know we are in the Bardo of death right this very minute...:rolleyes:

Cheers,
Fred

[Tony]

18. Three and a half days after death,
One realises one is dead,
And, depressed and disheartened, seek a refuge.
Bless us to know, at that time, our own awareness to be the refuge.


Hi Tony, this one in particular jumps out at me. It makes sense that if we are able to take refuge in our awareness in "life", then we will be able to take refuge in our awareness in "death". Or to invoke a bit of related Hermetic teachings: As below so above, as above so below.

Our time in death is no more sacred or mysterious than in life. Hell, for all we know we are in the Bardo of death right this very minute...:rolleyes:

Cheers,
Fred


Totally agree on every level. It is our fixated glue of conceptual consciousness that is holding this 'movie' together.
Our awareness is the refuge, it is as simple as that. The pure awareness is the gap... (Luminous space)...between everything.


....but for some reason I am still holding onto this luggage I keep lugging around. Ah! Could it be that I am still oscillating between, 'I know' and 'knowing'....damn I knew there was something!;)

Some things are just not easy to let go of that is why we need help. Perhaps this silly thing called the NWO, will tip me over the edge!

[greybeard]

Be very careful what your last thoughts are---you may well end up there.
Makes sense to prepare years in advance.
Chris

Ps even though I have mainly "followed" enlightened sages-- I would call out to Jesus if I found myself lost.
ch

[Tony]

Be very careful what your last thoughts are---you may well end up there.
Makes sense to prepare years in advance.
Chris

Ps even though I have mainly "followed" enlightened sages-- I would call out to Jesus if I found myself lost.
ch




That is so right Christ. Unfortunately some of us have a very working class background, and in near collisions in the car, I have been known to shout.." ****!" So it probably a dung beetle life for me!


But I do have a backup plan thank goodness.





Yours,
Tony

[TOTHE]

Captured soul device used in Egypt as mentioned in Whitley Strieber’s book The Key.

http://ancientegyptonline.co.uk/images/denderahlightbulb.jpg

Lightbulb my foot.
http://ancientegyptonline.co.uk/Denderahlightbulb.html

[Tony]

Captured soul device used in Egypt as mentioned in Whitley Strieber’s book The Key.

http://ancientegyptonline.co.uk/images/denderahlightbulb.jpg

Lightbulb my foot.
http://ancientegyptonline.co.uk/Denderahlightbulb.html





It look like a rather large exotic mouse trap.;)

[greybeard]

The Queen in Alice in Wonderland----It means what I say it means--- approx quote.
The challenge is that people believe the written word without personal experience or confirmation.

At least on the path of enlightenment there are experiences which confirm what the sages have uniformly attested to.
Not just one sage but many over thousands of years.
Much of the ancient teaching now confirmed by science.

The journey of the soul, to my mind, is too crucial to ones ultimate destiny, to leave to the written word of just one or two writers.
When something has happened on this spiritual journey-- I have found that others have had similar experiences and that is reassuring and keeps me more or less on my individual track.
I dont take any bodys word for anything "spiritual" without cross referencing.
Wandering into dark places is not something I would care to do now--- at one time it would have seemed exciting.

Chris

[Dorjezigzag]

A story that I have remembered that relates to the thread.

When I was 16-17 me and my friends went on holiday to France, like many teenagers in search of fun and adventure we drank heavily.
One night I collapsed and some girls that we had met put me into a bed that had been set up in an awning that was connected to a caravan which we had rented.
I began to choke on my own vomit (sorry if too much info!)
I knew this because I was looking at myself from above my body just below the awning, probably several metres in the air.
I could see the girls panicking and trying to revive me but I just remembered feeling quite detached and a little fascinated with my current predicament.
I then tried to get pass the awning, but I could not which kind of surprised me because I thought that ones soul (spirit?) could pass through objects like this. I moved to where the awning joined the caravan thinking I would be able to get through there but still I could not do it.

Well there was no bright light which is often talked about with these experiences, but at least there were not any of those little black goblin creatures like on the movie Ghost that wanted to take me away!

Eventually I suddenly returned back to my body with an interesting tale and I think I just went back to drinking. Looking back the experience did have some effect on me latterly.

So in answer to your question can a soul be captured? well in my experience and technically we may be talking about the spirit here yes it can, especially by awnings that are adjoined to caravans!;)

http://caravanningcouple.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/pyramid_corsican_caravan_awning_.jpg

[TOTHE]

Captured soul device used in Egypt as mentioned in Whitley Strieber’s book The Key.

http://ancientegyptonline.co.uk/images/denderahlightbulb.jpg

Lightbulb my foot.
http://ancientegyptonline.co.uk/Denderahlightbulb.html





It look like a rather large exotic mouse trap.;)

Note that the guy holding it is about 8 foot tall. Big mice those days.

[music]

Can a soul be captured? Yeah right, too much sci-fi and internet. Not to be unkind, but the idea is ludicrous, and anyone who tells you a soul can be captured is either ignorant, deluded, or an agent. Don't fear for your true and essential nature - it is untouchable, it is stainless, it is pure.

This is the time to rejoice in our perfection, not drag the hobble and mill-stone of agenda around with us.

[Tarka the Duck]

Can a soul be captured? Yeah right, too much sci-fi and internet. Not to be unkind, but the idea is ludicrous, and anyone who tells you a soul can be captured is either ignorant, deluded, or an agent. Don't fear for your true and essential nature - it is untouchable, it is stainless, it is pure.

This is the time to rejoice in our perfection, not drag the hobble and mill-stone of agenda around with us.

Yey!!! :cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:

[Tony]

In what is called the Bardo, the period after death (there are other periods) we as 'confused consciousness' are without a body. One could call that soul, spirit, or ghost, but it still consciousness. A consciousness that is caught up in concepts. These concepts are the driving force of karma. Karma being the collection of ideas which filter our view and react from.

It is said, in the Tibetan Book of the Dead, that two sets of light come towards us, one bright the other dull. The bright lights attract us to the enlightened state, the dull attract us to our usual neurotic state. So we could say that the dull lights capture us, but this is only due to us believing everything to be real, when they are merely projections which have no inherently true existence. We are here, because we were caught by the dull lights!


So we could say that the soul/consciousness can and is captured by concepts. Advertisers do this all the time. All we have to do is recognise the unreality of projection during our life cycle, to see this also in death.

'Soul' is Consciousness without a form. If we believe the dream to be true, it will seem true!







We are not consciousness, we are the awareness of consciousness.
And of course that awareness is purity itself and unchanging.
Tony

[music]

Yes, Tony, that is the problem - the dull lights. Why do we have a problem with the concept that our essential nature is to shine brightly? I would still say that it is vestigial ego that draws us to the dull lights, so it may continue to delude itself that it is the light of consciousness.

Thanks Kathy, you are always guaranteed to make me smile :)

[Tony]

Yes, Tony, that is the problem - the dull lights. Why do we have a problem with the concept that our essential nature is to shine brightly? I would still say that it is vestigial ego that draws us to the dull lights, so it may continue to delude itself that it is the light of consciousness.

Thanks Kathy, you are always guaranteed to make me smile :)



Absolutely......!

[Tony]

Here is a strange video, suggesting that some celebrities owe their fame to........???
Britney Spear seems to change character at the mention of the word "Spew".
At 2.26 Bob Dylan suggests he sold his soul to the.....???

They seem to have acquired a debt...???

xabAcgvW0Zg

[greybeard]

Beren had a thread some time ago where there was much debate on the affect of some music--ie gangster rap
Perhaps he could put a link in here as its relevant.

Seemingly its not just the words but a frequency that is put in with the music that drives some to violent acts--including suicide.
The late Dr David Hawkins, whom I mention from time to time, maintained that the lower astral takes great delight in causing suffering through some aspects of all media.
So I would say that the seeming individual consciousness can be diverted into unhelpful direction ---led astray.
However the Soul is untouched.

Chris

Ps something else

The videos that promote the music track particularly female artists, is usually soft porn.
This leads young girls to think that they only way they can be successful is through their body and displaying sexuality.
Im certainly not prudish but there is a place for healthy sexuality.

ch

[Dorjezigzag]

Here is a strange video, suggesting that some celebrities owe their fame to........???
Britney Spear seems to change character at the mention of the word "Spew".
At 2.26 Bob Dylan suggests he sold his soul to the.....???

They seem to have acquired a debt...???


Some every day people love to demonize celebrities, sometimes they have reason, but often it is just jealousy.
Yes a lot of celebrities seem to go insane but how many everyday people do we all know who have had their melt downs. I see it all the time, walking in town.
I love the opening scene of shaun of the dead when you are not sure if the people going about their everyday lives are zombies or not.

Most of us sell out in some way or other, what ever our chosen profession.
vZmjsWAfn14

[music]

Frequency is the reason musical pitch was changed. The current A = 440 Hz works to block the throat chakra, effectively making access to higher consciousness problematic. The old A = 432 Hz blocks no chakras, but nestles in quite well with the heart chakra, augmented that chakras capacity. It is believed by some that A = 440 Hz encourages apathy, the herd mentality, and free-form aggression that can be easily channeled. I would have to say that my experience leads me to similar conclusions.

A = 440 Hz is divisible by 4 (resolving to 2), it is a binary system that is unable to cope with the odd number, so a third of our trinity falls down the gaps. 432 Hz is divisible by 3 (all notes), and resolves to the values of sacred geometry. I have said here before, but will say again: magic happens between the cracks of the dualistic reality.

Ha, I just now thought that the old children's chant "step on a crack, break your mother's back" is pretty good negative reinforcement of the duality paradigm!

[modwiz]

Frequency is the reason musical pitch was changed. The current A = 440 Hz works to block the throat chakra, effectively making access to higher consciousness problematic. The old A = 432 Hz blocks no chakras, but nestles in quite well with the heart chakra, augmented that chakras capacity. It is believed by some that A = 440 Hz encourages apathy, the herd mentality, and free-form aggression that can be easily channeled. I would have to say that my experience leads me to similar conclusions.

A = 440 Hz is divisible by 4 (resolving to 2), it is a binary system that is unable to cope with the odd number, so a third of our trinity falls down the gaps. 432 Hz is divisible by 3 (all notes), and resolves to the values of sacred geometry. I have said here before, but will say again: magic happens between the cracks of the dualistic reality.

Ha, I just now thought that the old children's chant "step on a crack, break your mother's back" is pretty good negative reinforcement of the duality paradigm!

I now record my personal music in 432. I also "noodle" (write/fool around) in this tuning. I only use 440 when learning songs and have to play along. With the exception of drop tunings to Eb on the guitar, based on 440, of course. I feel it is sad that musicians as a community are so far behind the curve on this one. Unfortunately, a lot of musicians got into music to "get chicks". Speaking for the males here. I got into music because I wanted to be like the Beatles and Rolling Stones. That was before puberty. I discovered the "benefits" :eyebrows: later, but it was not the inspiration.

Most musicians I know are not particularly interested in the subtle realities. Shout out to Chris?Greybeard. A notable exception. I am hopeful that most musicians at PA are aware of this. Not sure how many have adopted it as the de facto tuning. Even my Yamaha keyboard (less than 150.00) is capable of holding this tuning. Keyboards no longer lock us into this unholy tuning.

[mahalall]

Not quite capturing but an excellent introduction into soul manipulation

W.Y.Evans-Wentz (1960) The Tibetan Book of The Dead.

The hypho-bo (pron pho-o) or extractor of the consciouness principle, a process through which a priest detaches the spirit from a deceased and guides it into favourable location.

[Becky]

Frequency is the reason musical pitch was changed. The current A = 440 Hz works to block the throat chakra, effectively making access to higher consciousness problematic. The old A = 432 Hz blocks no chakras, but nestles in quite well with the heart chakra, augmented that chakras capacity. It is believed by some that A = 440 Hz encourages apathy, the herd mentality, and free-form aggression that can be easily channeled. I would have to say that my experience leads me to similar conclusions.

A = 440 Hz is divisible by 4 (resolving to 2), it is a binary system that is unable to cope with the odd number, so a third of our trinity falls down the gaps. 432 Hz is divisible by 3 (all notes), and resolves to the values of sacred geometry. I have said here before, but will say again: magic happens between the cracks of the dualistic reality.

Ha, I just now thought that the old children's chant "step on a crack, break your mother's back" is pretty good negative reinforcement of the duality paradigm!


Hi Music,
I think you have something really important here - as we know everything is made of vibration, and essentially sound. I think this small difference in frequency is absolutely vital. I we could somehow retune ourselves back to 432Hz rather than 440 Hz, then we could massively raise our vibration and become 'free'. I do wonder whether this IS the Matrix. it is something I have been thinking about for months.
Thanks for putting this into words for me...us all :-)
Becky

[powessy]

pie'n'eal I have seen the human soul and it is not formless it is beautiful. there is soul death and then the soul of the (grey: loose translation) takes it's place. Here's a simple thought I first raise you to believe in a false god I then teach you to work hard for no reward in a institution that is set on failure. I tell you about spirituality but never tell you that you have a spirit or teach you how to speak to it. I feed you on food that has been designed to destroy your pineal gland and your creativity. now you go through life blind and your soul is blind for he is the one that goes on in the after. The more he learns from you and see's from you the stronger he becomes but this is not how it is. as you age and die your soul which only hears and sees little must then try and journey to a place that he will wait and be reborn. more advanced races have found unity after death and live as guides for years after their death till eventually there energy becomes week and they must once again be reborn this process requires full wipe they evolve through this process. you see the human soul has no advantage in the after they are corralled like in a tank of sharks waiting for their turn to come back their is no evolution. I'm not sure of what the goal is that has created this gross problem but they will soon be out of places to hide. when you die HERE everything stays HERE try and get to know yourself before it is to late if you come to this site you already know that something is different about you so keep trying to reach your other half.

[greybeard]

Dear powessy
Leaving aside what you have seen, re soul.
Is the rest your personal experience or something you have read?

Chris

[Tony]

pie'n'eal I have seen the human soul and it is not formless it is beautiful. there is soul death and then the soul of the (grey: loose translation) takes it's place. Here's a simple thought I first raise you to believe in a false god I then teach you to work hard for no reward in a institution that is set on failure. I tell you about spirituality but never tell you that you have a spirit or teach you how to speak to it. I feed you on food that has been designed to destroy your pineal gland and your creativity. now you go through life blind and your soul is blind for he is the one that goes on in the after. The more he learns from you and see's from you the stronger he becomes but this is not how it is. as you age and die your soul which only hears and sees little must then try and journey to a place that he will wait and be reborn. more advanced races have found unity after death and live as guides for years after their death till eventually there energy becomes week and they must once again be reborn this process requires full wipe they evolve through this process. you see the human soul has no advantage in the after they are corralled like in a tank of sharks waiting for their turn to come back their is no evolution. I'm not sure of what the goal is that has created this gross problem but they will soon be out of places to hide. when you die HERE everything stays HERE try and get to know yourself before it is to late if you come to this site you already know that something is different about you so keep trying to reach your other half.




Hello Powessy,

“I, have seen the soul.”

There could be a mix up here of what is being said, so I'll tread carefully.

On the face of it, “I, have seen the soul,” is a duality.
When we are seeing something, there is time involved...me and it.

However if we use the word 'soul' as our true being – absolute consciousness,
then the seeing is done by the 'soul' and so there is nothing to see.
This is timeless, it's spontaneous.

This pure being cannot the captured, as there is no thing there to be captured.
It is pure uncontaminated awareness, embodied in a form...for a while.

We can recognise the beauty, truth and compassion in this pure awareness.
There is no salivating, as this will turn pure awareness (non duality)
into a concept (duality).

This pure consciousness can only be distracted, by appearances, images, and false idols.
This is what is happening all the time...we cling.

All we need to do is recognise, let go and be still.





Tony

[powessy]

pie'n'eal It was not my soul I saw it was my wifes soul. I have left my body so many times and my memories and thoughts are with ME when this happens, not the guy laying on my bed. I have seen most of the different forms that souls take after death they come in all sizes and shapes and appearances i'm starting to think it is some sort of glamor or something. I understand your point but let me explain something as I have tried with others I am short with words and tend to leave out understanding. your soul is not within you in the way you may think, it resides in a place you must be able to see. Your soul is filled with information you keep bombarding it with like false idols and images this is your doing and not your souls. You must believe that your soul is in there start to realize this and it will realize you. I am not distracted by most things such as gods or news of man and I try to eat well balanced foods reducing intakes of poisons such a aluminum, fluoride and murcury. Awareness and belief how much more simple can this concept be. The other thing is to open your third eye so it can start to learn then as you believe and become aware he will ascend within you, you will then have a new take on this discussion.