Questions about the concept of rebirth

[dextc]

I got a little question that i hope somebody here has an answer to.

If we focus on rebirth as buddhisme and certain areas of spritualisme tells it - i run in to a wall that i can't seem to get about.
The problem in this equation is the growing people count on this earth.
I can't understand how rebirth and human increase goes hand in hand.

I mean.. If we are all on a journey to become devine energy, then why aren't the people count fixed? Where does the extra rebourne souls come from?

Can anybody shed a light on this?

[Chip]

If I were to speculate. I should gather that the souls available for the cooperation of rebirth is innumerable.
Are you under the assumption that "rebirthed" souls only come from others that were previously on this plane of existence (Earth)?

[Tony]

Little question? Great question!

[Tarka the Duck]

Hello dextc

There are a couple of thoughts that sprung into my mind when I read your OP...they come from a Buddhist perspective and I don't know whether I've done a very good job at explaining :o but here goes...

It's not only in our age that the population of the world has increased: vast civilisations have prospered and then been wiped out time and time again.

It is said in Buddhism that there are many worlds or realms in which living beings can exist: there are many universes coming into existence and dissolving constantly. Life is not limited to our little world system.

Sentient beings take many forms - not just human.

The concept of rebirth in Buddhism isn't about the continuation of an individual self - there isn't a direct correlation, a one-to-one relationship between someone dying and then someone being reborn. If that was the case, then there would be a package - some may call that the soul, a permanent self - that is being reincarnated. Buddhism maintains that there is no permanent self: it is more like a stream of consciousness or energy that is a continuum of perpetual arising, dwelling and ceasing. It is beginningless, with every moment arising from the previous one.

So when you die, the "ingredients" that made "you" inevitably change their state, and become the cause of other beings. It won't be another "you", but it will be pure consciousness.


This poem is by the Zen master, Uchiyama Roshi, where he has tried to get across the idea of this mind stream of consciousness:

Water isn't formed by being ladled into a bucket
Simply the water of the whole universe has been ladled into a bucket
The water does not disappear because it has been scattered over the ground
It is only that the water of the whole universe has been emptied into the whole universe

Life is not born because a person is born
The life of the whole universe has been ladled into the hardened "idea" called "I"
Life does not disappear because a person dies
Simply, the life of the whole universe has been poured out of this hardened "idea" of "I" back into the universe


I've probably confused you even more now!
Kathie

[dextc]

Well.. The way i understood it is that we are all on our personal travel and that we have all existed before. We must have since the human age span goes to ex. 100 years. If we are rebourne into different planets of what i can understand still is as human form. + If we gotta learn to grow we must have been through the matrix a couple of times. A human IS a rebourne soul. It can not be any other way since (of what i understand) the human form only is a shell.

So at the time when human population was 1.000.000 where was the other 6 billion souls at?

_________________________

Tarka:

I see too some degree what you're saying (i'm at work and it's been a long day so i think i have to read again tomorrow)
If we look at it from the buddhist side and souls can take form in any living thing, then that itself should counter the need or situation of a grown human population count. If we live in many dimensions and flowing universes then again.. why the increase in human forms? That should be irrelevant since the soul can take hold in countless other shells
I'm sorry if i come across as a bit thick, but i just can't find the "A'HA.." moment in this equation

[Tarka the Duck]

So at the time when human population was 1.000.000 where was the other 6 billion souls at?

That's what I was trying - obvious not very well! - to explain from one point of view ;).

If you have the idea of an individual, permanent soul, then that question will arise.
If you don't think we are a permanent soul, and you consider that we are a consciousness energy stream, then the question doesn't arise as this energy is not confined to idea of one body = one soul.

Kathie

[dextc]

So at the time when human population was 1.000.000 where was the other 6 billion souls at?

That's what I was trying - obvious not very well! - to explain from one point of view ;).

If you have the idea of an individual, permanent soul, then that question will arise.
If you don't think we are a permanent soul, and you consider that we are a consciousness energy stream, then the question doesn't arise as this energy is not confined to idea of one body = one soul.

Kathie

Hi Tarka... Thanx for you input. It's greatly appreciated. - please see my edited post :)

[Tony]

This is a huge question.

There are enlightened beings and there are sleeping enlightened beings (us). We are sentient beings who have a mind or consciousness, this includes everything creature that moves in the universe. The number is infinite.

Though I am a confused being called Tony in this body, my true nature is enlightened, just like you.
However we do not totally recognise that, but just have an inkling of it.

After death this bundle of energy called Tony, will leave this plane of existence, and will be driven onwards by karma. Karma being a set of fixated ideas we hold onto, which creates most of our circumstances (accidents still occur!).

This bundle of energy will forget this incarnation, but will carry with it a confused tendency, which interacts with what karma produces, and this confused tendency will take on a new rebirth. But we cannot say it is us, because we will not remember what 'us' was!!!

In this confused tendency there will carry with it a vague memory. As a child grows, these tendencies show themselves don't they? We have leaning, a talent, a gift, a longing!!!

So in each incarnation we can refine understanding...or not bother, and go back to chewing grass.,





The confused being called,
Tony

[ROMANWKT]

I got a little question that i hope somebody here has an answer to.

If we focus on rebirth as buddhisme and certain areas of spritualisme tells it - i run in to a wall that i can't seem to get about.
The problem in this equation is the growing people count on this earth.
I can't understand how rebirth and human increase goes hand in hand.

I mean.. If we are all on a journey to become devine energy, then why aren't the people count fixed? Where does the extra rebourne souls come from?

Can anybody shed a light on this?

Hi dextc

Your questions are very valid, but your answers below are not, you don't tell a slave that this life is it, you invent a Soul for the assouls who believe in incarnation, because they get caught up as to what incarnates, not the life force, so its the invented soul.

why don't you ask, why you don't remember your previous life, and then listen to another invented answer. They have been doing this nonsense for thousands of years to humanity, and a lot of people are not catching on, be careful what you ask or you will be excommunicated and go to hell of your own making, which again does not exist either, just another invention to keep the slaves at bay.

Your life force was given to you by your mother and father, make sure you maintain it well.

Regards dextc
roman

[ROMANWKT]

This is a huge question.

There are enlightened beings and there are sleeping enlightened beings (us). We are sentient beings who have a mind or consciousness, this includes everything creature that moves in the universe. The number is infinite.

Though I am a confused being called Tony in this body, my true nature is enlightened, just like you.
However we do not totally recognise that, but just have an inkling of it.

After death this bundle of energy called Tony, will leave this plane of existence, and will be driven onwards by karma. Karma being a set of fixated ideas we hold onto, which creates most of our circumstances (accidents still occur!).

This bundle of energy will forget this incarnation, but will carry with it a confused tendency, which interacts with what karma produces, and this confused tendency will take on a new rebirth. But we cannot say it is us, because we will not remember what 'us' was!!!

In this confused tendency there will carry with it a vague memory. As a child grows, these tendencies show themselves don't they? We have leaning, a talent, a gift, a longing!!!

So in each incarnation we can refine understanding...or not bother, and go back to chewing grass.,





The confused being called,
Tony

Hi Tony

Which sentient beings would you be talking about, the ones that the church murders brutally, the spiritual brutality, please show me one sentient being that all the doctrines put together have ever respect life as being sentient , please read your history.

Regards a ever

roman

[ROMANWKT]

Here is something that I started to write, but don't wish to finish it, for whom and for what, I feel its a waste of my time and effort, most of you us are not seekers, your preachers.





Dropped the hypocrisy of a God at 11 years old, 37 years ago got confronted with negative and positive thinking, implications were that our thinking changes our experience in this reality.

Two beliefs systems running parallel with each other. Religion and Spirituality, both are doctrines.

A couple of weeks ago I mentioned that the Ancients never talked about spirituality, or ever mentioned it, this sort of crept in later, just as religion did.

When you go back to the old doctrines they only expressed the life force or chi as it's known, their belief in a God was from the understanding of their controllers of this planet, that all succumbed to and treated them as god's.

The secret brotherhood that eventually became the controller to this day, kept hidden information from mankind, not only of their origin but of their capacity to exel in this realm.

Here was a new understanding given through the religions and other doctrines based on reincarnation, this added the problem of what will incarnate, this was solved by adding a SOUL to the composition on top of a life force.

If man does have a soul, then that can only be a parasite, or a created nonsense to facilitate incarnation, you have but one life force given to you by your mother and father, it is then up to you to maintain it, and through proper understanding increase this energy to achieve all the phenomena that humanity classed as gifts, which they are not, it's just that we have all potential.

We are being sold life after death since our childhood, every doctrine bangs your head with this.

You don't tell an intelligent slave that this is it, after your gone, that's it. You would not get the cooperation from the slaves in building their empire. Do not worry, work hard and then go to heaven for your rest, and if you don't behave yourself like a good little slave, we will excommunicate you so you will go to hell, well this is the crap sold to us all on a daily basis, God loves the poor do not make a heaven for yourself here as heaven await those that sacrifices for others, etc. There is the Elite and then there is us, we have been sold down the pan from the day we were born.


Points

Meditation. The astral. Mind works. Food chain. Immortality. Age of scriptures. Hidden info.

Human animal. Sentient and brutality. Buddhist secrets. Poisoning of food. The philosophers stone.

Alien intention and agenda. Creating the regular culling of humanity. Drugs and dmt. Unconditional love. Parasitic churches and Spirituality government supported.

[Tony]

Hi Tony

Which sentient beings would you be talking about, the ones that the church murders brutally, the spiritual brutality, please show me one sentient being that all the doctrines put together have ever respect life as being sentient , please read your history.

Regards a ever

roman


Evening Roman,

The word sentient means having mind. If reincarnation occurs, then we have all been murderers, thieves, brutalised others, as well as loved. As sentient beings refine their understanding and practise compassion, gradually their recognition of the true nature of others is understood and love becomes unconditional. But for most of us, this is a long way off!

First we have to learn to conquer our emotions. I have met beings who have taken my anger, allowed it, and let it be....the anger just dissolved.

While we are human we are not perfect, but we do have that potential. I'm not very well versed in history - the past, and I do not know the future, but I am here now, as you are.


yours,
Tony

[ROMANWKT]

Evening Roman,

The word sentient means having mind. If reincarnation occurs, then we have all been murderers, thieves, brutalised others, as well as loved. As sentient beings refine their understanding and practise compassion, gradually their recognition of the true nature of others is understood and love becomes unconditional. But for most of us, this is a long way off!

First we have to learn to conquer our emotions. I have met beings who have taken my anger, allowed it, and let it be....the anger just dissolved.

While we are human we are not perfect, but we do have that potential. I'm not very well versed in history - the past, and I do not know the future, but I am here now, as you are.


yours,
Tony

Hi Tony

There is no such thing as unconditional love, it does not exist, there is only compassion and only that.

Regards

roman

[Tony]

Here is something that I started to write, but don't wish to finish it, for whom and for what, I feel its a waste of my time and effort, most of you us are not seekers, your preachers.










Dropped the hypocrisy of a God at 11 years old, 37 years ago got confronted with negative and positive thinking, implications were that our thinking changes our experience in this reality.

Two beliefs systems running parallel with each other. Religion and Spirituality, both are doctrines.

A couple of weeks ago I mentioned that the Ancients never talked about spirituality, or ever mentioned it, this sort of crept in later, just as religion did.

When you go back to the old doctrines they only expressed the life force or chi as it's known, their belief in a God was from the understanding of their controllers of this planet, that all succumbed to and treated them as god's.

The secret brotherhood that eventually became the controller to this day, kept hidden information from mankind, not only of their origin but of their capacity to exel in this realm.

Here was a new understanding given through the religions and other doctrines based on reincarnation, this added the problem of what will incarnate, this was solved by adding a SOUL to the composition on top of a life force.

If man does have a soul, then that can only be a parasite, or a created nonsense to facilitate incarnation, you have but one life force given to you by your mother and father, it is then up to you to maintain it, and through proper understanding increase this energy to achieve all the phenomena that humanity classed as gifts, which they are not, it's just that we have all potential.

We are being sold life after death since our childhood, every doctrine bangs your head with this.

You don't tell an intelligent slave that this is it, after your gone, that's it. You would not get the cooperation from the slaves in building their empire. Do not worry, work hard and then go to heaven for your rest, and if you don't behave yourself like a good little slave, we will excommunicate you so you will go to hell, well this is the crap sold to us all on a daily basis, God loves the poor do not make a heaven for yourself here as heaven await those that sacrifices for others, etc. There is the Elite and then there is us, we have been sold down the pan from the day we were born.


Points

Meditation. The astral. Mind works. Food chain. Immortality. Age of scriptures. Hidden info.

Human animal. Sentient and brutality. Buddhist secrets. Poisoning of food. The philosophers stone.

Alien intention and agenda. Creating the regular culling of humanity. Drugs and dmt. Unconditional love. Parasitic churches and Spirituality government supported.





Doesn't sound like fun, does it?

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Hi Tony

There is no such thing as unconditional love, it does not exist, there is only compassion and only that.

Regards

roman




Hello Roman,
Unconditional love is like unconditional happiness....they both do not rely on conditions to happen!

[ROMANWKT]

Hi Tony

Unconditional Love is only drug or meditative phenomena.

Regards

roman

[Tony]

Hi Tony

Unconditional Love is only drug or meditative phenomena.

Regards

roman


It all depend on our point of view.
Once we understand our "true being', confidence arises, that confidence brings a sort of joy, that is love. It is just there, it needs no condition, only a recognition of 'awareness'...pure awareness. Meditation is resting in pure awareness, that is the recognition of our true being.


Now the way others project this can be used as a weapon to drug others, to beguile them, and we see this all the time.
But luckily we do not have to throw the baby out with the bathwater!


I will have to agree these twisted projections make me angry as well, but that is when compassion is most needed.


Yours,
Tony

[Tony]

Dear Roman,
I really do understand your anger.
We all have to come to our own conclusions and stick to them, if it works for us.

If someone could show me something better, then I will change my view. But I have tested the present one for nearly 30 years, and it is.... reasonable.




Tony

[ROMANWKT]

Hi Tony

I am absolutely not angry, but determinant, to stop people using unsubstantiated beliefs as truths, all of it, you have not got a leg to stand on, just beliefs. nonsense, all mind works , all mind creation, the whole package is a mind creation, all of it.

Regards as ever

roman

[GloriousPoetry]

Your question is complex and opened to many perspectives. If you believe in the common notion of reincarnation then this world is full of recycled souls and any soul who has been here for the first time is a new soul. I have a hard time believing that all souls come into this world various times. I think some souls choose to come here many times while others make this trip only once but that doesn't make you a new soul since I believe that our soul did not begin here and does not end here. My personal belief is that your soul is your unique essence and that doesn't change. I have a brother who died at the age of 23 and his soul wanted out of here early. He has communicated with me(dreams) and even manifested something that was unique to who he was and always will be. He has no desire to reincarnate and come back into this world. He is in another world where his essence is carrying on where he left off here. Some lessons are learned somewhere else.
So perhaps this world is just a stopping ground and a playground for the soul to pick up some lessons but as to how many times you come back here,nobody has tabs on that count.
This is my personal perspective.

Many Blessings,
Gloria

[modwiz]

Although this question is answered for myself, how to put it into a brief synopsis is challenging. Also, to then have it challenged just takes the juice out of me. I will attempt a short hand of sorts.

There is no actual linear time, though there is. It takes parallel thinking with both sides of the brain working in tandem to hold that thought and make it work. Your other lives are quite alive, right now. The deaths of those past lives are probable and contingent on a constant state of dynamic circumstances involving all of the parts of the oversoul communicating with each other in the everpresent now. This is very helpful with "past life" death traumas.

There is more than one body/persona per soul. We don't own or have souls. Souls project us into time streams. There are many probable variations of ourselves at any given time. There are also possible ones that become probable if situations develop to make them so. Almost anything is possible. Probable develops from........probability.

The Michael material addresses some of these issues with richness. It posits that we personalities are soul fragments.
http://www.michaelteachings.com/

You are approaching this conundrum with a left brained perspective, as if it were a math problem. It is not.

I hope that was helpful.

[markpierre]

Hi Tony

I am absolutely not angry, but determinant, to stop people using unsubstantiated beliefs as truths, all of it, you have not got a leg to stand on, just beliefs. nonsense, all mind works , all mind creation, the whole package is a mind creation, all of it.

Regards as ever

roman

It's easy to substantiate. Experience it directly. It's not what you'd define it. If it has to be proven to you, it will be, but no one can do it for you.
Authority is derived from knowledge which is derived from experience.
Tony would have to lie in order to agree with you, and he can't. He grew up. The mandate is to step through beliefs and into direct experience.

To the O.P.

Many more than 7 billion individualized identities have expressed themselves in form, and only a tiny fraction of totality. As opportunity increases, so does the imperative to get as much
experience completed as possible, before the conditions change into a different sort of opportunity.
Some individuals are completing, some are only beginning. And many many many meaning most, have no need or interest.
Whatever it is that's useful about the experience of will expressing in form, isn't necessarily part of every soul and soulgroup.
It's a rather exclusive little club.

A better question might be; how does that information help you?

[Jake]

I tend to agree with TarkaTDs explanation of it. There is no fixed number or fixed point of view, when it comes to the rebirthing/recycling process.


a stream of consciousness or energy that is a continuum of perpetual arising, dwelling and ceasing. It is beginningless, with every moment arising from the previous one.


Beautifully put.:clap2: Reincarnation is a vast and broad subject. I have been doing a lot of reading about the Buddhist and Hindu and Toaist philosophies! I have to say that I am quite humbled by it all.

Jake

[bram]

;)



Hi Tony

Which sentient beings would you be talking about, the ones that the church murders brutally, the spiritual brutality, please show me one sentient being that all the doctrines put together have ever respect life as being sentient , please read your history.

Regards a ever

roman

Hi Roman,

There are quite a few faiths (but not the monotheistic ones) which value the lives of all sentient beings. Buddhists, Hindus and Jains are all vegetarian because they do not wish to kill sentient life. jains even carry a small brush with them when they walk so they can sweep the path in front of them and ensure they do not inadvertently step on any bugs.

For myself, I try not to kill anything if I can. This includes mosquitos feasting on my blood, although I try to encourage them to limit themselves to 1 bite.

[cloud9]

As I understand this subject, a soul can sustain many life forms including trees, rocks, animals, humans and other sentient beings; it's not as in one soul = one body. Actually, as it seems to be and following the idea that time doesn't exist and everything is happening at the same time, all our past and future lives are happening now, that means all those bodies exist at this moment also.

If you see this subject as one soul one body and just one at a time, your thinking is lineal and follows the premise of past first, present and then future which according to some researches is quite the opposite: future, present and past. This is due to how time is perceived in this dimension and in the dimension our Higher Self (soul or any other name) exists.

This theory is from Jean Pierre Gerard, unfortunately I haven't found lectures or interviews in English but in French and some times translated to Spanish (I don't speak French ;) ). Our Higher Self or Over Soul handles many different forms at the same time and it can have as many as needed to play the life game.

[ROMANWKT]

Although this question is answered for myself, how to put it into a brief synopsis is challenging. Also, to then have it challenged just takes the juice out of me. I will attempt a short hand of sorts.

There is no actual linear time, though there is. It takes parallel thinking with both sides of the brain working in tandem to hold that thought and make it work. Your other lives are quite alive, right now. The deaths of those past lives are probable and contingent on a constant state of dynamic circumstances involving all of the parts of the oversoul communicating with each other in the everpresent now. This is very helpful with "past life" death traumas.

There is more than one body/persona per soul. We don't own or have souls. Souls project us into time streams. There are many probable variations of ourselves at any given time. There are also possible ones that become probable if situations develop to make them so. Almost anything is possible. Probable develops from........probability.

The Michael material addresses some of these issues with richness. It posits that we personalities are soul fragments.
http://www.michaelteachings.com/

You are approaching this conundrum with a left brained perspective, as if it were a math problem. It is not.

I hope that was helpful.

Hi Modwiz

Whats the matter, cant you figure thing out for yourself, whos Michael?

Regards to you

roman

[ROMANWKT]

Hi Tony

I am absolutely not angry, but determinant, to stop people using unsubstantiated beliefs as truths, all of it, you have not got a leg to stand on, just beliefs. nonsense, all mind works , all mind creation, the whole package is a mind creation, all of it.

Regards as ever

roman

It's easy to substantiate. Experience it directly. It's not what you'd define it. If it has to be proven to you, it will be, but no one can do it for you.
Authority is derived from knowledge which is derived from experience.
Tony would have to lie in order to agree with you, and he can't. He grew up. The mandate is to step through beliefs and into direct experience.

To the O.P.

Many more than 7 billion individualized identities have expressed themselves in form, and only a tiny fraction of totality. As opportunity increases, so does the imperative to get as much
experience completed as possible, before the conditions change into a different sort of opportunity.
Some individuals are completing, some are only beginning. And many many many meaning most, have no need or interest.
Whatever it is that's useful about the experience of will expressing in form, isn't necessarily part of every soul and soulgroup.
It's a rather exclusive little club.

A better question might be; how does that information help you?

Hi markpierre

Understood, but where do you draw the line of what is and what is a mind fantasy.

regards

roman

[ROMANWKT]

As I understand this subject, a soul can sustain many life forms including trees, rocks, animals, humans and other sentient beings; it's not as in one soul = one body. Actually, as it seems to be and following the idea that time doesn't exist and everything is happening at the same time, all our past and future lives are happening now, that means all those bodies exist at this moment also.

If you see this subject as one soul one body and just one at a time, your thinking is lineal and follows the premise of past first, present and then future which according to some researches is quite the opposite: future, present and past. This is due to how time is perceived in this dimension and in the dimension our Higher Self (soul or any other name) exists.

This theory is from Jean Pierre Gerard, unfortunately I haven't found lectures or interviews in English but in French and some times translated to Spanish (I don't speak French ;) ). Our Higher Self or Over Soul handles many different forms at the same time and it can have as many as needed to play the life game.

Hi cloud9

who is Jean Pierre Gerard, what do you need him for, if what all of you claim is the truth and how it is, why all the gurus, If these things are so, why always refer to others, don't you know???

Regards

roman

[ROMANWKT]

why is it that you guys study for years and years, and always refer to other for an answer???? its not as if by now you don't know what to do, yet always refer to others. if it such a truth, how come everybody is having problems with it, and if you don't tell people about it, it does not exist.

Regards

roman

[modwiz]

Although this question is answered for myself, how to put it into a brief synopsis is challenging. Also, to then have it challenged just takes the juice out of me. I will attempt a short hand of sorts.

There is no actual linear time, though there is. It takes parallel thinking with both sides of the brain working in tandem to hold that thought and make it work. Your other lives are quite alive, right now. The deaths of those past lives are probable and contingent on a constant state of dynamic circumstances involving all of the parts of the oversoul communicating with each other in the everpresent now. This is very helpful with "past life" death traumas.

There is more than one body/persona per soul. We don't own or have souls. Souls project us into time streams. There are many probable variations of ourselves at any given time. There are also possible ones that become probable if situations develop to make them so. Almost anything is possible. Probable develops from........probability.

The Michael material addresses some of these issues with richness. It posits that we personalities are soul fragments.
http://www.michaelteachings.com/

You are approaching this conundrum with a left brained perspective, as if it were a math problem. It is not.

I hope that was helpful.

Hi Modwiz

Whats the matter, cant you figure thing out for yourself, whos Michael?

Regards to you

roman

There is nothing the matter. I saw this coming, see highlighted above. Michael doesn't matter in this conversation either.

[ROMANWKT]

My only reason for being here on Avalon is for human potential, so many of you are so badly mind f__cked you have absolutely no room for any potential.

Its by clearing all the garbage that you will then start to release the hidden potential from within, until you start to realise this and understand what you are doing to yourself by having the impossible spinning around in your heads 24/7 and by impossible I mean so called answers given by other people, with complicated jargon, which eventually totally screw you for ever to have a clear mind to achieve anything here in this realm, they got you thinking about realm that are the working of the mind, and that where most are stuck on.

Oh no not this crap again, what the matter do you think things just change, or we just change things to suit somebodys answer for you. I don't give you answer, but a simple methodology to clear yourselfs http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15834-Its-all-nonsense-part-1

Regards as ever

roman

¤=[Post Update]=¤




Although this question is answered for myself, how to put it into a brief synopsis is challenging. Also, to then have it challenged just takes the juice out of me. I will attempt a short hand of sorts.

There is no actual linear time, though there is. It takes parallel thinking with both sides of the brain working in tandem to hold that thought and make it work. Your other lives are quite alive, right now. The deaths of those past lives are probable and contingent on a constant state of dynamic circumstances involving all of the parts of the oversoul communicating with each other in the everpresent now. This is very helpful with "past life" death traumas.

There is more than one body/persona per soul. We don't own or have souls. Souls project us into time streams. There are many probable variations of ourselves at any given time. There are also possible ones that become probable if situations develop to make them so. Almost anything is possible. Probable develops from........probability.

The Michael material addresses some of these issues with richness. It posits that we personalities are soul fragments.
http://www.michaelteachings.com/

You are approaching this conundrum with a left brained perspective, as if it were a math problem. It is not.

I hope that was helpful.

Hi Modwiz

Whats the matter, cant you figure thing out for yourself, whos Michael?

Regards to you

roman

There is nothing the matter. I saw this coming, see highlighted above. Michael doesn't matter in this conversation either.

You're still following others, its not from yourself

Regards

roman

[cloud9]

As I understand this subject, a soul can sustain many life forms including trees, rocks, animals, humans and other sentient beings; it's not as in one soul = one body. Actually, as it seems to be and following the idea that time doesn't exist and everything is happening at the same time, all our past and future lives are happening now, that means all those bodies exist at this moment also.

If you see this subject as one soul one body and just one at a time, your thinking is lineal and follows the premise of past first, present and then future which according to some researches is quite the opposite: future, present and past. This is due to how time is perceived in this dimension and in the dimension our Higher Self (soul or any other name) exists.

This theory is from Jean Pierre Gerard, unfortunately I haven't found lectures or interviews in English but in French and some times translated to Spanish (I don't speak French ;) ). Our Higher Self or Over Soul handles many different forms at the same time and it can have as many as needed to play the life game.

Hi cloud9

who is Jean Pierre Gerard, what do you need him for, if what all of you claim is the truth and how it is, why all the gurus, If these things are so, why always refer to others, don't you know???

Regards

roman

Hello roman,
Jean Pierre Gerard is a French physicist not a guru, he has been studying the subject of time based on physics and mathematical concepts. The rest of the post are my own conclusions about the life game. You would ask why this is important and the answer is: because there is a group of people applying these concepts and getting very impressive results and miraculous healings, unfortunately this new methodology is just known mostly in Spain, Cuba and Peru. Perhaps you are not interested or you wouldn't benefit from it but I can assure you that many others would.

Anyways, just as you read books and recommend them to us, we all enjoy and learn from others, if we don't…. well, just one human being would be here, right?

[ROMANWKT]

My argument with all of you is that, when will you start thinking for yourselves, when will you reach a point of understanding that will differentiate between mind work and reality.

Regards

roman


I have to go to work, cant continue at the moment, maybe later.

[cloud9]

My argument with all of you is that, when will you start thinking for yourselves, when will you reach a point of understanding that will differentiate between mind work and reality.

Regards

roman


I have to go to work, cant continue at the moment, maybe later.

Reality is a construct of the mind....

[modwiz]

You're still following others, its not from yourself

Regards

roman

Yes, Roman.
Thank you for your guidance. I shared very deep personal experience and meditative time. I spoke of what I live, not what I read. As I highlighted previously, I saw this coming. Where did I read that?

[bram]

Hi Roman,

I think Markpierre expained above; there is a difference between understanding based on logic, which as you say is all mind games, and knowledge arrived at directly through, for instance meditation. This kind of knowledge or realization, also known as insight, is when you understand something totally through direct experience of the phenomenon. It is ''top down'' knowledge, because it arrives as a complete experience package, not ''bottom up'' knowledge which is arrived as through logical process or deduction. This is the difference, IMO, between mind work and reality.

The reason there are so many gurus is that some people are considerably more advanced in this process than the rest of us. Their insights go further and explain more, so people are drawn to their words. But, ultimately you are correct to say that we will have to get there on our own, without all our teachers and gurus and guides.

Love and peace, bram.

[lookbeyond]

Here is something that I started to write, but don't wish to finish it, for whom and for what, I feel its a waste of my time and effort, most of you us are not seekers, your preachers.





Dropped the hypocrisy of a God at 11 years old, 37 years ago got confronted with negative and positive thinking, implications were that our thinking changes our experience in this reality.

Two beliefs systems running parallel with each other. Religion and Spirituality, both are doctrines.

A couple of weeks ago I mentioned that the Ancients never talked about spirituality, or ever mentioned it, this sort of crept in later, just as religion did.

When you go back to the old doctrines they only expressed the life force or chi as it's known, their belief in a God was from the understanding of their controllers of this planet, that all succumbed to and treated them as god's.

The secret brotherhood that eventually became the controller to this day, kept hidden information from mankind, not only of their origin but of their capacity to exel in this realm.

Here was a new understanding given through the religions and other doctrines based on reincarnation, this added the problem of what will incarnate, this was solved by adding a SOUL to the composition on top of a life force.

If man does have a soul, then that can only be a parasite, or a created nonsense to facilitate incarnation, you have but one life force given to you by your mother and father, it is then up to you to maintain it, and through proper understanding increase this energy to achieve all the phenomena that humanity classed as gifts, which they are not, it's just that we have all potential.

We are being sold life after death since our childhood, every doctrine bangs your head with this.

You don't tell an intelligent slave that this is it, after your gone, that's it. You would not get the cooperation from the slaves in building their empire. Do not worry, work hard and then go to heaven for your rest, and if you don't behave yourself like a good little slave, we will excommunicate you so you will go to hell, well this is the crap sold to us all on a daily basis, God loves the poor do not make a heaven for yourself here as heaven await those that sacrifices for others, etc. There is the Elite and then there is us, we have been sold down the pan from the day we were born.


Points

Meditation. The astral. Mind works. Food chain. Immortality. Age of scriptures. Hidden info.

Human animal. Sentient and brutality. Buddhist secrets. Poisoning of food. The philosophers stone.

Alien intention and agenda. Creating the regular culling of humanity. Drugs and dmt. Unconditional love. Parasitic churches and Spirituality government supported.

Hi Roman, are you saying that you do not believe the individual "life force" continues after death?



Kind Reguards lookbeyond

[Tony]

Everyone has a right to the conclusions at which "they" arrive.
If one believes others are mindless followers, it is their right to be that!

If we open our eyes, we are all influenced.

However, we may 'go inside' and verify the truth for ourselves at any moment.
Truth - like gold - can be tested.

So what is this truth?

A. Awareness. It is here and now, and it is beyond theories. Pure Awareness...it's that simple :rolleyes: !





How can Awareness be nonsense?

[markpierre]

Hi markpierre

Understood, but where do you draw the line of what is and what is a mind fantasy.

regards

roman

Drawing lines is an example of mental gymnastics. What's 'real' defies interpretation. Attempting to interpret it is fantasy.

If the world, the universe, all of 'what is' not excluding perception but excluding interpretation of what's being perceived, revealed itself. Or if there appeared a crack or hesitation
in the dysfunction of what conceptual perceptual thinking is, and 'what is' were allowed to be that which is perceived.
Allowed, rather than subjected to a filtering mechanism called discernment, the distinction will have been made.
You won't easily forget that, and you'll no longer be fooled by what isn't that. Then you can talk honestly about it.
It doesn't need to be a continuing state because it already just is, and the fundamental premise on which all conceptual thinking is based will have been exposed.

Everyone would/will be very surprised that Universal Consciousness is wholly entirely benevolent, without opposite or exception. Might even piss a few people off.
Depends on how attached they are to their ideas about themselves. Duality isn't good vs evil. Dark and light. It's good that depends on evil in order to be good.
Comparative thinking.

You/me/we are not our own causation. We don't really even cause our own awareness of ourselves. Love, humor, compassion, the expansion of giving, none of that originates in us.
We are, for lack of a better analogy, conduit. Conducting Universal mind. Conduit with choices, and a perception of self determination.
We do exercise a superficial aspect of will in locating and maintaining and defending against what feels threatening. It's all body identification.
Duality is impossible to what's naturally unified, and from the friction of that impossibility you experience and define guilt, isolation, dread, the fear of annihilation. The entirety of the perception of space and time as a comparison of past present and future, when all it is, is continuing change.
Growth. Evolution. Expansion.
All ideas and beliefs are self limiting, and in that sense you're right. Fantasy misinterpreted as 'reality', and in that sense you're right.

You want to pick and choose amongst fantasies?

[Tony]

There are many ways to look at death and rebirth. One could even say this happens every moment!
Whatever answer we come up with will have a psychological effect on how we live, and our state of mind, and mental health.

For me, the recognition of Awareness did it! From a small boy to now this Awareness has never ever changed. That's it! That answers all questions....for me.

It is not something I had to read about or be told. Totally Still Awareness, is Pure Awareness. Now, when I was introduced to the 'nature of mind' by a teacher, I said, “Is that all!”... “ I knew that when I was four.”

We all know this, but either ignore it, or call it something else. We can never be without awareness, because we are this awareness! The only time when we are not aware is when we are asleep, and even then we can be aware!

Does this Awareness continue after the body dies? This I cannot say I know, however the Knowing of this unchanging Awareness, which is not this body or mind, makes total sense that it is timeless.
This realisation has a wonderful psychological effect of never feeling old, but a constant rebirth of 'being' young at heart.

We all make our choices, and have to live by them. The wonderful thing is, these choices can change any moment, but that which is aware of all this, never changes. And, certainly cannot be captured, tortured, mucked about with, but the mind can. The mind is just the computer, which gets a virus now and again!

Even in our confusion we can be aware, and that is the very point of practice or how we conduct ourselves. It is in that vague awareness that the layers of fixated beliefs about ourselves and the world we live in can be removed.


'Some' threads are really important, this is one of them!




Tony

[markpierre]

Beautiful post Tony.

Think of all the hundreds of thousands of years of discipline to get to be four years old.

I enjoy my aware confusion. Call it lucid. Just let it run and see how wild it can get.
Then reel it in and find out it's too big a fish and almost pulls you in.
It's hilarious.

[Tarka the Duck]

Dear Roman

The thing that leapt out at me as I read your words was that you seem to see everyone as mind controlled slaves, as mind f***ed unable to reach their potential, as preachers not seekers, who are incapable of experiencing anything without checking first with a being they consider to be an authority figure and incapable of differentiating between reality and fantasy. Is that really how you see others :confused:?

I appreciate your passion and I feel your frustration, but as cloud9 says, we have all been influenced. What you think are your conclusions are merely bits of information you've heard and read that connected with your current view, all mashed up together and packaged into "your theory". We are all doing this, all the time, as we search for what makes sense to us...and you're no different to the rest of us ;)

Once we have an intellectual understanding of how we feel, we then have to look into that very closely, and analyse what the essence is. What it is that we are trying to establish. We can either stay on the physical, scientific ground, or move into the spiritual heart of the matter...to discover the heart of the matter!

And we all have to do this for ourselves. No one else can do it for us, however frustrating we may find that to be.

Much love
Kathie

Oooops....sorry dextc...this has gone completely off topic. Apologies! :yield:

[Tony]

Some find their path, some do not.
This was a spontaneous last appearance of George Harrison. Worth a little listen.

50LfH0I879g


At 11.30 "All things must pass"
fdSb4zddOzo

[Tony]

Inner peace.

It does not matter how we get there.
Some find inner peace.
Some do not.
Unshakeable inner peace is something no one can take away from us.

“You are delusional!” you might say.
“Yes, yes...but all things must pass -fortunately,” is my reply.
Birth and death are natural: the body naturally wears out.
If we can just accept this, inner peace naturally arises.

“You are delusional!”
“Yes, yes...come and have tea,” is my reply.
Birth and death happen at every moment: we are constantly creating a self. Then it collapses for a moment while we come to our senses, and then we create a new one from our old ideas.

“You are delusional!”
“Yes, yes, but I know it, and in that very knowing, delusion collapses.”

“You are delusional!”
“...and I am at peace.”




Inner peace is non-aggressive.
Life is not literal, it is symbolic.
Poetic.

[Michelle Marie]

Hi Tony

I am absolutely not angry, but determinant, to stop people using unsubstantiated beliefs as truths, all of it, you have not got a leg to stand on, just beliefs. nonsense, all mind works , all mind creation, the whole package is a mind creation, all of it.

Regards as ever

roman

Maybe we could talk about our actual experience. If we do that and report our perceptions we can observe reality and learn what is actually happening by sharing our perceptions and perspectives from that level.

I had an actual experience recently. After the culmination of many initiatory experiences leading up to this, I was screamed at by a friend, which seemed to be the straw that broke my soul's back, and I fell to the floor and became only soul-perception oriented. I screamed to God to take me Home and I cried. A peace came over me. I seemed to be sensing the presence of my Grandmother, but I perceived it was Divine Mother in the most personal form. I was soothed with this peaceful energy. When I finished crying, I laid on the biomat where I had come for relief from back pain from moving. I was so sore and tired and spent, I could not move. I witnessed what I needed to witness. (Part of the larger story) and then I got my things and left.

I've been receiving revelatory information, clear Divine guidance, and I'm now moving forward with more strength and power from within. I'm becoming much more confident. In fact, I feel so empowered, it's weird. I've been using the energy to focus on helping others through my intuitive capabilities, and moving forward more fully with my life's work. I've written some books and now I have the confidence to promote them.

But I've also been been speaking the truth spontaneously with passion. It's like something comes over me and it comes out. I just stuck up for mySelf in some relationships where I had allowed my subtle perceptions that were disturbing a voice.

It felt like rebirth to me. I feel different. I feel much more powerful, but also like being in remembrance rehab...it takes time to get used to it and exercise the new powers and gifts.

Much love to all,
Michelle Marie

[Tarka the Duck]

Hello dextc

Back to topic...:laugh:


You're not the first to ask this question about rebirth, and it's safe to say that you won't be the last…and I think it's highly unlikely that anyone will come up with an answer that everyone else can accept! It falls to each of us to use our own judgment, experience and common sense, and hopefully through practice we will come to a conclusion - in the sense that it won't stay as merely a belief or disbelief that we have. As with everything, it's good to keep asking questions, and try to keep an open mind.

I think it is very OK to not understand. Understanding gives us a sense of certainty, a sense of safety, which is very comforting but in some cases, that in itself can close the door to further questioning and examination. It is very okay to learn to live with uncertainty…unattached to certainty, and unattached to uncertainty :yes4:!

At some point, we will either understand rebirth (through personal experience): when this happens, we will truly know the answer.
OR
We will not be here to understand because death really is oblivion, and the end of everything…in which case it will cease to be an issue because there will be no "us" to experience it!

Kathie

[lookbeyond]

Hi Tony

I am absolutely not angry, but determinant, to stop people using unsubstantiated beliefs as truths, all of it, you have not got a leg to stand on, just beliefs. nonsense, all mind works , all mind creation, the whole package is a mind creation, all of it.

Regards as ever

roman

Maybe we could talk about our actual experience. If we do that and report our perceptions we can observe reality and learn what is actually happening by sharing our perceptions and perspectives from that level.

I had an actual experience recently. After the culmination of many initiatory experiences leading up to this, I was screamed at by a friend, which seemed to be the straw that broke my soul's back, and I fell to the floor and became only soul-perception oriented. I screamed to God to take me Home and I cried. A peace came over me. I seemed to be sensing the presence of my Grandmother, but I perceived it was Divine Mother in the most personal form. I was soothed with this peaceful energy. When I finished crying, I laid on the biomat where I had come for relief from back pain from moving. I was so sore and tired and spent, I could not move. I witnessed what I needed to witness. (Part of the larger story) and then I got my things and left.

I've been receiving revelatory information, clear Divine guidance, and I'm now moving forward with more strength and power from within. I'm becoming much more confident. In fact, I feel so empowered, it's weird. I've been using the energy to focus on helping others through my intuitive capabilities, and moving forward more fully with my life's work. I've written some books and now I have the confidence to promote them.

But I've also been been speaking the truth spontaneously with passion. It's like something comes over me and it comes out. I just stuck up for mySelf in some relationships where I had allowed my subtle perceptions that were disturbing a voice.

It felt like rebirth to me. I feel different. I feel much more powerful, but also like being in remembrance rehab...it takes time to get used to it and exercise the new powers and gifts.

Much love to all,
Michelle Marie

I would also like to share a personal experience, my reason for sharing is that i believe if those of us who have had them put them "out there" others may benefit. Experiences have nothing to do with "gurus" or religions. These experiences in my opinion are personalised for the individual and for me brought comfort and learning.

My mother passed over as a forty year old woman following a long fight with cancer. As i was falling asleep one night about 3 months later, i was physically touched on the side of my face. The description i will give is a complete recognition of this being my mother,pure essence, pure love which first touched then passed into me.I was crying as this was my mother who had come to me after she had died.
On the morning that my mother passed over the clock stopped on the time that she passed.

The soul/life force remains individuated for some time after death, this I know - from experience. What happens longer (many months ?) later, well ill have to wait and see for myself.


Kind Reguards lookbeyond

[Michelle Marie]

Very sweet touching story. It does help to share.

Thank you.
Michelle Marie

[ROMANWKT]

My argument with all of you is that, when will you start thinking for yourselves, when will you reach a point of understanding that will differentiate between mind work and reality.

Regards

roman


I have to go to work, cant continue at the moment, maybe later.

Reality is a construct of the mind....

Yes thank you cloud 9 we all gather that much, let me rephrase it, when will you discern between a belief and mind/reality

regards

roman

[ROMANWKT]

Here is something that I started to write, but don't wish to finish it, for whom and for what, I feel its a waste of my time and effort, most of you us are not seekers, your preachers.





Dropped the hypocrisy of a God at 11 years old, 37 years ago got confronted with negative and positive thinking, implications were that our thinking changes our experience in this reality.

Two beliefs systems running parallel with each other. Religion and Spirituality, both are doctrines.

A couple of weeks ago I mentioned that the Ancients never talked about spirituality, or ever mentioned it, this sort of crept in later, just as religion did.

When you go back to the old doctrines they only expressed the life force or chi as it's known, their belief in a God was from the understanding of their controllers of this planet, that all succumbed to and treated them as god's.

The secret brotherhood that eventually became the controller to this day, kept hidden information from mankind, not only of their origin but of their capacity to exel in this realm.

Here was a new understanding given through the religions and other doctrines based on reincarnation, this added the problem of what will incarnate, this was solved by adding a SOUL to the composition on top of a life force.

If man does have a soul, then that can only be a parasite, or a created nonsense to facilitate incarnation, you have but one life force given to you by your mother and father, it is then up to you to maintain it, and through proper understanding increase this energy to achieve all the phenomena that humanity classed as gifts, which they are not, it's just that we have all potential.

We are being sold life after death since our childhood, every doctrine bangs your head with this.

You don't tell an intelligent slave that this is it, after your gone, that's it. You would not get the cooperation from the slaves in building their empire. Do not worry, work hard and then go to heaven for your rest, and if you don't behave yourself like a good little slave, we will excommunicate you so you will go to hell, well this is the crap sold to us all on a daily basis, God loves the poor do not make a heaven for yourself here as heaven await those that sacrifices for others, etc. There is the Elite and then there is us, we have been sold down the pan from the day we were born.


Points

Meditation. The astral. Mind works. Food chain. Immortality. Age of scriptures. Hidden info.

Human animal. Sentient and brutality. Buddhist secrets. Poisoning of food. The philosophers stone.

Alien intention and agenda. Creating the regular culling of humanity. Drugs and dmt. Unconditional love. Parasitic churches and Spirituality government supported.

Hi Roman, are you saying that you do not believe the individual "life force" continues after death?



Kind Reguards lookbeyond

Hi lookbeyond, hoping all is well with you,

what this discussion is about it that the life force leaves the body and dissipates and ends, so what they done was to create a soul, and that soul would be the thing that reincarnate into another body when the time is right.

The soul is an invention, which without it there would be no reincarnation.

regards

roman

[ROMANWKT]

Dear Roman

The thing that leapt out at me as I read your words was that you seem to see everyone as mind controlled slaves, as mind f***ed unable to reach their potential, as preachers not seekers, who are incapable of experiencing anything without checking first with a being they consider to be an authority figure and incapable of differentiating between reality and fantasy. Is that really how you see others :confused:?

I appreciate your passion and I feel your frustration, but as cloud9 says, we have all been influenced. What you think are your conclusions are merely bits of information you've heard and read that connected with your current view, all mashed up together and packaged into "your theory". We are all doing this, all the time, as we search for what makes sense to us...and you're no different to the rest of us ;)

Once we have an intellectual understanding of how we feel, we then have to look into that very closely, and analyse what the essence is. What it is that we are trying to establish. We can either stay on the physical, scientific ground, or move into the spiritual heart of the matter...to discover the heart of the matter!

And we all have to do this for ourselves. No one else can do it for us, however frustrating we may find that to be.

Much love
Kathie

Oooops....sorry dextc...this has gone completely off topic. Apologies! :yield:

Dear Kathie

You belong to a doctrine, your buying everything given to you by that doctrine.........end of story.

regards

roman

[ROMANWKT]

Heres somebody everybody respect, within the first 3 minutes he talks about the BELIEF in reincarnation.

Though he's a lovely guy and has deep compassion for human worries, he quite plainly states that some doctrines believe and some don't, he spend nearly 2 hours weaselling around trying to prove his point, THE GUY TALKS CRAP.

regards http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=slAwulYPSjg

roman

[ROMANWKT]

Christianity is about 2,000 years old, Islam is 1,400years old, Judaism is about 3,800 years old which links them with Egypt, Buddhism is about 3,500 years old, and the Vedas most notables estimate up to 7,000 years old. check out the scriptures before the Brotherhood tried to destroy, and why destroy the Gnostic.

The manipulation is rife, you need to do some home work, or just keep on buying the crap given.

regards

roman


Add on

the reason given here is that you need to check when was the soul added.

[ROMANWKT]

The complete dissipation of the life force energy can take up to a week, check Kirlian technology, this energy does not survive death, the tunnelling of vision whilst dying is based on oxygen starvation, the astral is due to your life force, no life, no astral.

All astral phenomena is based on the matrix memory, people achieving higher levels in meditation and in astral is a creation of your creative mind, a secondary illusion.

There is no way to prove or disprove this point, and that's where they get all of us, its pure manipulation of humanity in unsubstantiated nonsense.

regards

roman

[Tarka the Duck]

You belong to a doctrine, your buying everything given to you by that doctrine.........end of story.
Dear Roman

I had hoped from a more explanatory reply ;)! I truly wonder whether you actually ever read anything anyone writes! It appears to me that you are so blinkered by your own belief system that you blindly impose what you think people are saying onto their actual words...

Firstly, we are talking about rebirth, not reincarnation. There is a clear distinction between the two: the first does not involves belief in a soul of any kind.

Secondly, not all of us have a high regard for Krishnamurti: another example of a sweeping generalisation arising from your belief system.

Thirdly, if you mean by "doctrine" a body of teachings or instructions then yes, I find the words of the Buddha, among others, as very valuable: I'm not so arrogant as to turn down as offer of help from those who have gone before. But if you mean it in the sense of buying into a set of beliefs, then you clear misunderstand, and have never read anything I've written.

Fourthly, you are so dismissive of, and show such little respect for your fellow seekers that I wonder if this is a wind up....what you say is sooooo outrageous!

We all have our own subtle belief systems, and the sooner you learn to accept that, the happier you will be. In post 30, you offered your methodology - which is a doctrine in itself - we all have our own sets of beliefs, Roman...and suggesting people form their opinions through the pseudoscience of Kirian photography is proof of that.

As you say, end of story.

Well, I'm off out for a walk in the sunshine and breakfast at a cafe on the beach. I hope you enjoy your day!

[ROMANWKT]

I am trying to be as diplomatic as I can be on this subject, and yes I do read what people have written, but choose not to answer rhetoric.

As far as my methodology stands it takes WILL to remove will, its takes BELIEF in a clearing system to remove garbage beliefs, that is the action of removal, not to be bound by it.

You need to check when all these beliefs in rebirth were introduced into your doctrine.

You need to check why Buddhism has been ALLOWED to exist, and others have not??

regards

roman

[noprophet]

In theosophy there is a concept of 'soul groups'.

This means that their is a core intelligence which incarnates in multiple bodies.

For instance a beehive might be one soul, or an ant colony. A wolf-pack might be one soul that through countless expressions/beings is beginning to further differentiate/individualize its selves but still has the ability to think together.

This perspective also plays into DNA and 'soul groups'; one of the alternatives communities long-standing discussions. (33 originals, rep, etc)

I'm not sure its correct but you can see its influence within almost any modern metaphysical movement.

[ROMANWKT]

You all inherited something from the so called "Gods " which has been hidden by the Brotherhood for thousands of years, you all inherited IMMORTALITY which the Egyptians knew about but kept it secret from even their own people, the Brotherhood will not allow any of you to achieve this, hence the poisoning and the Alien agenda here on earth. This knowledge is for them THE BROTHERHOOD, not for you.

Check Bill Ryan's thread/Philip/Charles/Atticus. Bill Ryan was right to bring in Charles, whatever the outcome was, there were truths given there.

Dig deep.

regards

roman

[ROMANWKT]

In theosophy there is a concept of 'soul groups'.

This means that their is a core intelligence which incarnates in multiple bodies.

For instance a beehive might be one soul, or an ant colony. A wolf-pack might be one soul that through countless expressions/beings is beginning to further differentiate/individualize its selves but still has the ability to think together.

This perspective also plays into DNA and 'soul groups'; one of the alternatives communities long-standing discussions. (33 originals, rep, etc)

I'm not sure its correct but you can see its influence within almost any modern metaphysical movement.

when I was 26 years old, I read all of Rudolph the red nose reindeer Steiner works, which Blavaska and other famous patrons contributed in, and after 2 years of heavy occult work I was asked to join the circle, I dumped them and disappeared, they were a sickly lot, deep in mind works, helping Steiner to build his massive dome building in the astral, not interested.

There are danger of deep mind works and mostly physical health, check back in history about all the Gurus who were a sickly lot as well.

You as I, and everybody else have nothing to substantiate what we are being thought, and that a big problem, its all mindworks.

regards

roman

[markpierre]

In theosophy there is a concept of 'soul groups'.

This means that their is a core intelligence which incarnates in multiple bodies.

For instance a beehive might be one soul, or an ant colony. A wolf-pack might be one soul that through countless expressions/beings is beginning to further differentiate/individualize its selves but still has the ability to think together.

This perspective also plays into DNA and 'soul groups'; one of the alternatives communities long-standing discussions. (33 originals, rep, etc)

I'm not sure its correct but you can see its influence within almost any modern metaphysical movement.

The ant/beehive metaphor is really easy for me. I wouldn't imagine they would necessarily need any sort of individualization to be honest.
We seem to. But the point being that 'the whole' doesn't exclude anything. Not even individualization.

I hope it can be considered that regardless of any viewpoint from only one side of the demarcation point, that whoever you think you are,
remains intact and with you. Who you think you are might change. All I know is that I've always been me. Every memory is a memory of me,
not someone who isn't here anymore.
And conversations with guys who've departed don't indicate that much is different.
Except that without the fear of death, the sense of the self is different. There's freedom to be a bit more clear and generous with yourself.

We're not talking about consciousness evolving except that it does that continually regardless. We're just talking about going out and coming in.
Out of the hot room, into the cool room, back to the hot room. Until the pie is cooked. It's a radical change of scenario, but that's all it is.
It's not the way I'd bake a pie, but I don't make the rules. And it's not really a pie.

Everyone should be happy. You get to always be you, depending on how you feel about yourself. Could be a curse.
And that's what's being worked on.

[ROMANWKT]

Sounds to fantastic eehhh, its as fantastic as souls and afterlife, rebirth, and reincarnation, there is not one person that can prove one Iota, one BS is as good as another BS , ITS ALL MINDSWORKS.


REGARDS AS EVER TO ALL

roman

[lookbeyond]

Sounds to fantastic eehhh, its as fantastic as souls and afterlife, rebirth, and reincarnation, there is not one person that can prove one Iota, one BS is as good as another BS , ITS ALL MINDSWORKS.


REGARDS AS EVER TO ALL

roman

Hi Roman, do you believe that peoples personal experiences are not proof that we as individuals do go on after death from the earth? I would really appreciate it if you would expand your theory and your proof of it. The reason i ask this is that i have my experiences which have contributed to my beliefs and have come to Avalon in response to my increased awareness. I am eager to learn of others experiences to help put the pieces to the puzzle of life.

Kind Reguards lookbeyond


addit- i will look into the Charles material as i have not been there at all yet

[SummerSolsticeChild]

In Buddhism not all souls are reborn as humans. They believe that certain souls "sleeping souls" are reborn into many different types of physical or non-physical bodies. If you are a sleeping soul you can be reborn as a ghost, a tree, an insect, basically anything. So essentially the soul count is not going either up nor down at any time, the body count is. That also is believing that you cannot reincarnate in a different time or on a different planet, or achieve enlightenment, where your soul does not reincarnate anymore. Basically, that is why the population fluctuates.

[panopticon]

0giYl6bi7Os
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[ROMANWKT]

Sounds to fantastic eehhh, its as fantastic as souls and afterlife, rebirth, and reincarnation, there is not one person that can prove one Iota, one BS is as good as another BS , ITS ALL MINDSWORKS.


REGARDS AS EVER TO ALL

roman

Hi Roman, do you believe that peoples personal experiences are not proof that we as individuals do go on after death from the earth? I would really appreciate it if you would expand your theory and your proof of it. The reason i ask this is that i have my experiences which have contributed to my beliefs and have come to Avalon in response to my increased awareness. I am eager to learn of others experiences to help put the pieces to the puzzle of life.

Kind Reguards lookbeyond


addit- i will look into the Charles material as i have not been there at all yet

Hi lookbeyond

You are still getting over your mums passing, and this is not an appropriate time for me to pass my views on to you. If your emotion to see your mum are high enough, you will see her again in sleep or otherwise do not ever fear your mum, but please keep a record of what she says to you for yourself, but would love to know what dress she wears every time you manage to see her, again if you wish to see your mum, as long as your need is there with a high enough emotion there is no reason why you cannot experience your mum again. this is not the right time or anything else for Charles thing has nothing to do with reincarnation, so forget it.

warmest regards to you lookbeyond

roman

¤=[Post Update]=¤


0giYl6bi7Os
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

Hi Panopticon

If this was directed at me, then I accept it, thank you, I agree with him 100%.

Thank you and regards

roman

[dextc]

Allow me to jump back in the thread..

I had a long talk with a friend regarding the concept of rebirth. My major concern as i stated in the first comment was the missing harmonies between rebirth and the increasing people count. I still have difficulties understanding it from a buddhistic perspective. However, my friend gave me his respond from a spiritual perspective that could explain this exact equation. Now i won't go in to to much detail since a two hour conversation would mean certain death for my fingers and keyboard.

anywho.. I'm gonna boil everything down as short as possible.

The human light/soul is spread around on many different planets, systems and dimensions in order to grow as we all are in need of different experiences on different times in order to reach ascension. Now the thing about why the number of people is growing on our planets is in relation to 21.12.12 - This is the beginning of the "golden age". From here on and a couple of decades the earth will be centered in the void of creation. Apparently in this time of space earth will be in the sound and vibration of creation and gives possibilities for higher awareness to interfere, guide and help rebourne souls to ascent to the next step. Hence the bigger people count since they all wanna be here in that period.

That's the ultimate short version full of empty blanks and unanswered quiestions. It's nothing more than a explanation to the souls vs. amount of people.

I haven't been able to digg deep in to this yet, so i can't accept it nor can i discharge it. It IS though definitely something i need to investigate.

[noprophet]

In theosophy there is a concept of 'soul groups'.

This means that their is a core intelligence which incarnates in multiple bodies.

For instance a beehive might be one soul, or an ant colony. A wolf-pack might be one soul that through countless expressions/beings is beginning to further differentiate/individualize its selves but still has the ability to think together.

This perspective also plays into DNA and 'soul groups'; one of the alternatives communities long-standing discussions. (33 originals, rep, etc)

I'm not sure its correct but you can see its influence within almost any modern metaphysical movement.

On the science side [morphic fields]:
JnA8GUtXpXY
--

ABSTRACT

We have been brought up to believe that the mind is located inside the head. But there are good reasons for thinking that this view is too limited. Recent experimental results show that people can influence others at a distance just by looking at them, even if they look from behind and if all sensory clues are eliminated. And people's intentions can be detected by animals from miles away. The commonest kind of non-local interaction mental influence occurs in connection with telephone calls, where most people have had the experience of thinking of someone shortly before they ring. Controlled, randomized tests on telephone telepathy have given highly significant positive results. Research techniques have now been automated and experiments on telepathy are now being conducted through the internet and cell phones, enabling widespread participation.

Speaker: Rupert Sheldrake
Rupert Sheldrake, Ph.D. is a biologist and author of more than 75 technical papers and ten books, the most recent being The Sense of Being Stared At. He studied at Cambridge and Harvard Universities, was a Fellow of Clare College, Cambridge and a Research Fellow of the Royal Society. He is currently Director of the Perrott-Warrick project, funded from Trinity College Cambridge.