Israel starts Assassination of Hamas leaders...

[Chester]

Pillar of Cloud. Interesting. Brings to mind the Old Testament story of the 'pillar' that led Moses and his people out of Egypt...of course, they ended up wandering the desert for 40 years before being led to the 'promised land'...where they proceed to slaughter the people already living there and take over their land.

.... ....



Except for the fact that Egyptians where fanatical record keepers and that there is not one single word, anywhere, about this whole moses-people thing.

And that Moses, if he existed, was an Egyptian. Not even remotely Judaic.

Thank You - could rationalizations based on what one believes happened centuries back which likely did not happen at all have something to do with how a segment of humanity finds the outer excuse to let out their inner anger which is apparently the form of entertainment they desire to experience the most?

Anyone got a mirror for these clowns?

[panopticon]

Call me cynical but I'm just thinkin' that right when there's a fair amount of certainty that a ceasefire is going to be finalised next thing a bomb goes off in Tel Aviv...
No one is claiming it now (after initial celebrations in Gaza and West Bank) and that seems a lil odd...
Heard about this kind a thing happening once and a while.
There again maybe just all coincidence...

[Chester]

WTF??? Now the Israeli Foreign Minister is saying that the government can't invade the Gaza Strip because it's too close to an election... (Ynet (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4309430,00.html))
Yet they can call up 30 000 troops, bomb all the infrastructure on the Gaza Strip out of existence, kill 140 people and traumatise the entire region but not actually invade it because there's an election in 2 months...

Sounds like a good way for Netanyahu to save face with the "settlers" and his support base.

Un bloody believable... :faint:

How many millions of dollars have been spent by the IDF?
How much to treat the people effected on both sides?
How much will need to be spent on rebuilding the Gaza Strip?
There are so many "How much" and "How many" questions that I'm staggered...

It is all modeled and orchestrated by highly intelligent people for the entertainment of the masses - wake up.... wake up sleepy heads or "they" will continue to memorize you and will remain several steps ahead of you at all times. Love to You, justoneman

[Chester]

9obbRoJQ4BM

Fascinating

I have found that the primary target of the PTBs is the masses. When the masses "agree" massively on one "side" then the PTBs know they are accomplishing their goal.

When the masses instead create a new selection in the poll - a selection that is - "Don't care" - at that point the PTBs will understand the masses have finally chosen to grow up. Will it happen? Based on past statistics, I would bet the "no." Could it happen, "yes."

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Where you put your attention+emotion is the MSM distraction. The real issues are somewhere else.
Here is a simple self test to indicate if you are propaganda victim.

Read this from aljazeera: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/2012112165451749759.html

More than 130 Palestinians and five Israelis have been killed since the violence began eight days ago.

A delegation of nine Arab ministers, led by Mohamed Amr, Egyptian foreign minister, visited Gaza in a further signal of heightened Arab solidarity with the Palestinians.

El-Araby said a ceasefire is not the the real issue facing Gaza.

"The real problem is not a truce. The real problem that the Arab and Islamic countries and all friendly countries in the world must focus on is ending the occupation," said el-Araby.

The United Nations Security Council, meanwhile, is due to hold a session on the crisis in Gaza on Wednesday at 15:00 GMT.

The Arab world is distracting you from the real suffering and humanitarian issue of the Syrian public:
http://www.voanews.com/content/winter-poses-deadly-risk-for-syrian-children/1549867.html

DOMIZ, IRAQ — Hundreds of thousands of children who have fled the fighting in Syria are at risk from cold and disease as winter approaches, according to aid agencies. There are fears that scores of vulnerable children could die in the makeshift camps that litter the border regions in countries like Lebanon and Iraq.

An estimated 2.5 million people have fled their homes in Syria because of the fighting. Around 400,000 are registered as refugees in neighboring countries including Iraq, Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon.

As this Syrian humanitarian situation escalates, out of eyes of the MSM.
Ask yourself what is your emotional reaction, to the Israeli/Arab conflict.
And what is your emotional reaction to the Syrian conflict.
Notice if there is any difference how it was produced, and why. Is this difference artificially created for you, or you chose it fully consciously.

If your emotional reaction difference is artificial, then you are propaganda victim.

The only real issue is the one each of us sees when we look into the mirror. Getting anyone to a mirror is the trick. It almost seems like "they" have stopped trying... perhaps "they" stopped after Atlantis - based on what I see in this world, its pretty hard to point the finger at anyone but that man in the mirror - me.

[Flash]

Where you put your attention+emotion is the MSM distraction. The real issues are somewhere else.
Here is a simple self test to indicate if you are propaganda victim.

Read this from aljazeera: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/2012112165451749759.html

More than 130 Palestinians and five Israelis have been killed since the violence began eight days ago.

A delegation of nine Arab ministers, led by Mohamed Amr, Egyptian foreign minister, visited Gaza in a further signal of heightened Arab solidarity with the Palestinians.

El-Araby said a ceasefire is not the the real issue facing Gaza.

"The real problem is not a truce. The real problem that the Arab and Islamic countries and all friendly countries in the world must focus on is ending the occupation," said el-Araby.

The United Nations Security Council, meanwhile, is due to hold a session on the crisis in Gaza on Wednesday at 15:00 GMT.

The Arab world is distracting you from the real suffering and humanitarian issue of the Syrian public:
http://www.voanews.com/content/winter-poses-deadly-risk-for-syrian-children/1549867.html

DOMIZ, IRAQ — Hundreds of thousands of children who have fled the fighting in Syria are at risk from cold and disease as winter approaches, according to aid agencies. There are fears that scores of vulnerable children could die in the makeshift camps that litter the border regions in countries like Lebanon and Iraq.

An estimated 2.5 million people have fled their homes in Syria because of the fighting. Around 400,000 are registered as refugees in neighboring countries including Iraq, Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon.

As this Syrian humanitarian situation escalates, out of eyes of the MSM.
Ask yourself what is your emotional reaction, to the Israeli/Arab conflict.
And what is your emotional reaction to the Syrian conflict.
Notice if there is any difference how it was produced, and why. Is this difference artificially created for you, or you chose it fully consciously.

If your emotional reaction difference is artificial, then you are propaganda victim.

Reaaaaaally good point

War is war is war is war, emotinal reaction of sadness, pain and disgust should be the same

Most people have none, we have been desensitized first

Then made victim of propangada

once conscious of this though, no more excuses

[Belle]

Fantastic, showing its real face publically. He will make those that wanted war and have Gaza finished angry if he does not finish the job, and he will make people who did not want the war angry to have started it in the first place. Either way, if he stops, he loses.

I am so sorry for those that had to die in order to save an election and its premier in Israel

One can only hope he loses the election....the Israeli people deserve better than this...(partial english translation can be found below the video when viewed on YouTube)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQTUNHwFA80
Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQTUNHwFA80


Of course, he is not the only world leader who is an arrogant master manipulator...


Carmody, yes...the myth of Moses leading his people out of Egypt...many myths perpetuated to justify committing horrors...thanks to religious 'holy books' which continue to spread the word...and people still believe this sh!t.

[panopticon]

The sticking point in cease fire negotiations appears to be around the lifting, or easing, of the blockade/siege on the Gaza Strip.

This is a major condition for the various Palestinian factions, Egypt and the Arab League while the Israeli Government is concerned that even though there was a blockade in place arm shipments obviously have still been able to get into the Gaza Strip.

Iran has been saying today that it has supplied the technology and knowledge for Hamas to build the Fajr-5 themselves and that they don't need to supply rockets, Hamas can manufacture them themselves. (AJ)

Also, the Israeli Minister for Foreign Affairs is reported as saying that the bombing of the bus in Tel Aviv 'will complicate the international efforts to reach a cease-fire in Gaza' (Barak Ravid (https://twitter.com/BarakRavid)). However other Ministers are reported as saying that they aren't sure if it will.

Meanwhile the UN reports that 10000 Gazan's are taking refuge in UN schools. (AJ)

[buckminster fuller]

Where you put your attention+emotion is the MSM distraction. The real issues are somewhere else.
Here is a simple self test to indicate if you are propaganda victim.

Read this from aljazeera: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/2012112165451749759.html

More than 130 Palestinians and five Israelis have been killed since the violence began eight days ago.

A delegation of nine Arab ministers, led by Mohamed Amr, Egyptian foreign minister, visited Gaza in a further signal of heightened Arab solidarity with the Palestinians.

El-Araby said a ceasefire is not the the real issue facing Gaza.

"The real problem is not a truce. The real problem that the Arab and Islamic countries and all friendly countries in the world must focus on is ending the occupation," said el-Araby.

The United Nations Security Council, meanwhile, is due to hold a session on the crisis in Gaza on Wednesday at 15:00 GMT.

The Arab world is distracting you from the real suffering and humanitarian issue of the Syrian public:
http://www.voanews.com/content/winter-poses-deadly-risk-for-syrian-children/1549867.html

DOMIZ, IRAQ — Hundreds of thousands of children who have fled the fighting in Syria are at risk from cold and disease as winter approaches, according to aid agencies. There are fears that scores of vulnerable children could die in the makeshift camps that litter the border regions in countries like Lebanon and Iraq.

An estimated 2.5 million people have fled their homes in Syria because of the fighting. Around 400,000 are registered as refugees in neighboring countries including Iraq, Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon.

As this Syrian humanitarian situation escalates, out of eyes of the MSM.
Ask yourself what is your emotional reaction, to the Israeli/Arab conflict.
And what is your emotional reaction to the Syrian conflict.
Notice if there is any difference how it was produced, and why. Is this difference artificially created for you, or you chose it fully consciously.

If your emotional reaction difference is artificial, then you are propaganda victim.

Two different theaters, one newer than the other. Differences are historical, it suffices to make the emotional reaction that you observe. I understand we shouldn't be concerned about what is happening in Gaza now... Yet I am concerned.
http://i.imgur.com/holiE.jpg

[PathWalker]

Two different theaters, one newer than the other. Differences are historical, it suffices to make the emotional reaction that you observe. I understand we shouldn't be concerned about what is happening in Gaza now... Yet I am concerned.
The numbers you present are interesting and biased by your information source.
The proportions in your graphic are inaccurate as well.
Please look into Palestinian sources and Israeli sources to get better grasp on the numbers.

BTW the gaza strip is one of the most crowded places on earth - the refugee camps. But there are many agricultural area 40% (mainly orchards).
In the 2006 conflict most of rockets firing was from the orchards. Since then they changed tactics to launch rockets from populated homes. So that the population is a living shield. Apparently it is not working this time.

[buckminster fuller]

Two different theaters, one newer than the other. Differences are historical, it suffices to make the emotional reaction that you observe. I understand we shouldn't be concerned about what is happening in Gaza now... Yet I am concerned.
The numbers you present are interesting and biased by your information source.
The proportions in your graphic are inaccurate as well.
Please look into Palestinian sources and Israeli sources to get better grasp on the numbers.

BTW the gaza strip is one of the most crowded places on earth - the refugee camps. But there are many agricultural area 40% (mainly orchards).
In the 2006 conflict most of rockets firing was from the orchards. Since then they changed tactics to launch rockets from populated homes. So that the population is a living shield. Apparently it is not working this time.

The source is "the economist", which is not known as an anti-zionist paper. The graphics might be out of proportions, yet the numbers are I believe a realistic view of what is. Rocks against guns, rockets against missiles.... Unbalance is the focused reality of it all.
Yes, the Gaza strip is pretty thin, and populated densely, which doesn't help with so called "surgical strikes".

Edit : I rechecked the graphics, and the proportions are correct. What you see IS a graphical depiction of what is.

[panopticon]

Two different theaters, one newer than the other. Differences are historical, it suffices to make the emotional reaction that you observe. I understand we shouldn't be concerned about what is happening in Gaza now... Yet I am concerned.
The numbers you present are interesting and biased by your information source.
The proportions in your graphic are inaccurate as well.
Please look into Palestinian sources and Israeli sources to get better grasp on the numbers.

BTW the gaza strip is one of the most crowded places on earth - the refugee camps. But there are many agricultural area 40% (mainly orchards).
In the 2006 conflict most of rockets firing was from the orchards. Since then they changed tactics to launch rockets from populated homes. So that the population is a living shield. Apparently it is not working this time.

The source is "the economist", which is not known as an anti-zionist paper. The graphics might be out of proportions, yet the numbers are I believe a realistic view of what is. Rocks against guns, rockets against missiles.... Unbalance is the focused reality of it all.
Yes, the Gaza strip is pretty thin, and populated densely, which doesn't help with so called "surgical strikes".

Edit : I rechecked the graphics, and the proportions are correct. What you see IS a graphical depiction of what is.

Sorry to report but the source for the casualty figures is actually the 'United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (occupied Palestinian territory)'.

Figures are from report: 'PROTECTION OF CIVILIANS WEEKLY REPORT 7 - 13 NOVEMBER 2012'.


Palestinian casualties by Israeli forces in the Gaza Strip:
Killed this week: 8
Killed in 2012: 78
Killed in 2011: 108
Injured this week: 52
Injured in 2012: 343
Injured in 2011: 479
2012 weekly average of injured: 8
2011 weekly average of injured: 9
Israeli casualties by Palestinian fire from Gaza
Injured this week: 9
Killed in 2012: 1
Injured in 2012: 27

Document available here (http://unispal.un.org/unispal.nsf/47d4e277b48d9d3685256ddc00612265/29cd66a59b9f700185257ab7006f1728?OpenDocument).

[buckminster fuller]

Published here : http://www.economist.com/blogs/pomegranate/2012/11/israel-and-palestinians also.

[PathWalker]

Two different theaters, one newer than the other. Differences are historical, it suffices to make the emotional reaction that you observe. I understand we shouldn't be concerned about what is happening in Gaza now... Yet I am concerned.

Yes you should be concerned, we should be concerned, I am as well.
Expecting for justice/balance/truth in this conflict, is futile attempt and very emotional taxing.
Both sides are evil and revengeful.
The point is to elevate the observation point to the drama game played by TPTB.

People are victims as long as they accept the hypnosis suggestion and conserver their victimhood.
Both sides are playing drama at equal responsibility.

[panopticon]

Mean while, both Gazan and Israeli people is being bombed...

[panopticon]

Here we go again... Evidently a cease fire agreement has been reached...
We'll see what happens this time...

It's reported to come into effect at 21:00 IST (19:00 GMT)

Mohamed Kamel Amr (Egyptian Foreign Minister) has just confirmed the cease fire will start @ 9 PM Cairo time (19:00 GMT).

[Chester]

Two different theaters, one newer than the other. Differences are historical, it suffices to make the emotional reaction that you observe. I understand we shouldn't be concerned about what is happening in Gaza now... Yet I am concerned.
The numbers you present are interesting and biased by your information source.
The proportions in your graphic are inaccurate as well.
Please look into Palestinian sources and Israeli sources to get better grasp on the numbers.

BTW the gaza strip is one of the most crowded places on earth - the refugee camps. But there are many agricultural area 40% (mainly orchards).
In the 2006 conflict most of rockets firing was from the orchards. Since then they changed tactics to launch rockets from populated homes. So that the population is a living shield. Apparently it is not working this time.

The source is "the economist", which is not known as an anti-zionist paper. The graphics might be out of proportions, yet the numbers are I believe a realistic view of what is. Rocks against guns, rockets against missiles.... Unbalance is the focused reality of it all.
Yes, the Gaza strip is pretty thin, and populated densely, which doesn't help with so called "surgical strikes".

Edit : I rechecked the graphics, and the proportions are correct. What you see IS a graphical depiction of what is.

You know... I am not the smartest guy on the planet, but even I can see based on these numbers that you have to be an idiot to shoot rockets at Israel. I mean seriously... forget all the reasons you might have to do so - forget all the justifications you may have, real or not. You really have to be a dumb idiot to shoot a rocket that will indiscriminately land in populated areas within Israel.

Its not just like someone showing up to a gun fight with a knife... its far, far dumber than that. But again, I am not so smart. justone

[panopticon]

The point is a cease fire has been agree to.
There are no confirmed details as to its content yet.

Hamas source: Israel will stop assassinating armed factions activists , easing the restrictions on the entry of goods from Israel into Gaza
(Twitter (https://twitter.com/Rushdibbc) -- Feed)

Al Jazeera just reported that the agreement includes (but unconfirmed):
Israel to stop all cross border aggressions.
Hamas and factions to stop all cross border aggressions.
Open borders and ease restrictions.

[Rocky_Shorz]

400 tunnels going into Gaza, why even bother with a fence...

Peace starts in an hour, first sleep Gaza will have in 7 days...

[modwiz]

400 tunnels going into Gaza, why even bother with a fence...

Peace starts in an hour, first sleep Gaza will have in 7 days...

From your mouth to a gods' ear. May it be so.

[SilentFeathers]

You know... I am not the smartest guy on the planet, but even I can see based on these numbers that you have to be an idiot to shoot rockets at Israel. I mean seriously... forget all the reasons you might have to do so - forget all the justifications you may have, real or not. You really have to be a dumb idiot to shoot a rocket that will indiscriminately land in populated areas within Israel.

Its not just like someone showing up to a gun fight with a knife... its far far dumber than that. But again, I am not so smart. justone

Perhaps you are not the smartest man on Earth, but you seem to have more common sense and reason than most of the Labeled "smart" people do...

Hamas and their so called "coalition" obviously know they have little chance of defeating Israel, and know they are actually invoking their own possible annihilation, they are drawing them (Israel) in to a political and human rights hornets nest, IMO. thus drawing in many global nation states to take notice, if not get directly involved.

This idiotic action by Hamas actually tends to make me think that it's not quite so idiotic after all....but a sacrifice type of strategy, to get support and or to draw other nation states to take sides, and to isolate Israel on the worlds stage even more.

[PathWalker]

400 tunnels going into Gaza, why even bother with a fence...

Peace starts in an hour, first sleep Gaza will have in 7 days...

It is all a make believe conflict.
The crossing from Gaza to Egypt is "controlled" by Egypt army, enforcing blockade on Gaza. The official reason from Algazeera correspondence: to put all Gaza responsibility on Israel (the Arab public is totally complicit and approve). Here you go for Arab compassion and hospitality.
On the local view view point, the tunnels are the main income to Sinai Bedouins, Hamas, and the Egypt army. Why should anyone wish to stop them?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Gaza_Strip_map2.svg/300px-Gaza_Strip_map2.svg.png
My point of view is TPTB conserve and pump the conflict as much as possible. Ignoring the natives and neglecting their interests.

[Rocky_Shorz]

400 tunnels going into Gaza, why even bother with a fence...

Peace starts in an hour, first sleep Gaza will have in 7 days...

From your mouth to a gods' ear. May it be so.

Hillary looked like she was going to kick Net&Yahoo's butt...

We still have a carrier group steaming towards the M.E. so our job isn't done yet...

[161803398]

The world must be concerned about what is going on in Gaza because we are all humans and we live in the world. We cannot act on every wrong that occurs in the world because there are so many and we do not hear about them all because our media is controlled. However, people can act on what they do hear about and what they care about for whatever reason. This particular issue in Gaza has arisen repeatedly in the past and is never resolved. Also, some of us, in North America, are very conscious as well, of the possibility of a third world war. What is wrong, is when people start pointing fingers and trying to lay blame or becoming angry at certain groups. I hear lots of people saying "its the Jews" or "its the Arabs". They say things like this because they don't actually have a clue what they are talking about.

I do know however that if someone from outside my country was talking about something going on next door to me, I might think it strange. I used to find it really offensive when people talked about what was going on in Northern Ireland because I have family both in the Republic and in the North and I and travel there often. I found it offensive because the talk was usually misinformed - a sad result of reading our newspapers, which, as I have said are controlled. I remember an IRISH man coming into the pub in Tipperary and spouting off a bunch of crap about what was going on in Ireland and everyone was shocked. However, I couldn't fully understand what the guy's problem was so I turned to the man next to me who said "he's been to New York". That explained it.

[Billy]

Ceasefire resumes in 5mins time. Phew.

Peace

EDIT: Ceasefire in place. Hamas asked the Palestinians to stay indoors but they are dancing in the streets.

[astrid]

Harry is right now answering questions via twitter and Ustream

https://twitter.com/harryfear

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/operation-pillar-of-cloud#utm_campaign=t.co&utm_source=12576643&utm_medium=social

[norman]

An Israeli just called the Alex Jones Show ( since the cease fire ) and said that the Palestinian rockets are still coming even though the Israelis have stopped their actions.

I don't do Twitter so I have no idea what people are saying about it on there.

[161803398]

Breaking News ‏@BreakingNews

Hamas leader says cease-fire deal includes opening of all Gaza crossings, including with Egypt - @AP
Expand

Nicholas Kristof ‏@NickKristof

Here's the text of the Gaza ceasefire agreement: http://un-report.blogspot.com/2012/11/ceasefire-agreement-between-israel-and.html?spref=tw … I hope it portends the end of the siege of Gaza.
Expand

Sharif Kouddous ‏@sharifkouddous

Mass celebration. Among the chants: The people demand the end of division pic.twitter.com/E4gLdcpo

[Chester]

And so if "children" in Gaza are still shooting bottle rockets and the Israeli forces are showing restraint... what does that suggest? Again IF this is true and IF this holds up... what then might this suggest?

[MorningSong]

http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/gaza/view-live-stream-gaza

[SilentFeathers]

And so if "children" in Gaza are still shooting bottle rockets and the Israeli forces are showing restraint... what does that suggest? Again IF this is true and IF this holds up... what then might this suggest?

Doubt if it will last long, but if it does Egypts Morsi will probably get a peace prize and a free vacation to Disneyworld.....

[Limor Wolf]

Yes, twelve more rockets were shot to Israel after cease fire, all according to the fabricated 'theather' they are giving to the public, and there was another siren going just ten minutes ago.

I recieved a mail from a friend who attached the 'Manifesto for change' by Gaza youth, nothing new, it is from 2011, but it depicts the difficult situation of Gazans which are between a rock(Israel) and a hard place (Hamas) :



"GAZAN YOUTH’S MANIFESTO FOR CHANGE

F**k Hamas. F**k Israel. F**k Fatah. F**k UN. F**K UNWRA. F**k USA! We, the youth in Gaza, are so fed up with Israel, Hamas, the occupation, the violations of human rights and the indifference of the international community! We want to scream and break this wall of silence, injustice and indifference like the Israeli F16’s breaking the wall of sound; scream with all the power in our souls in order to release this immense frustration that consumes us because of this ****ing situation we live in; we are like lice between two nails living a nightmare inside a nightmare, no room for hope, no space for freedom. We are sick of being caught in this political struggle; sick of coal dark nights with airplanes circling above our homes; sick of innocent farmers getting shot in the buffer zone because they are taking care of their lands; sick of bearded guys walking around with their guns abusing their power, beating up or incarcerating young people demonstrating for what they believe in; sick of the wall of shame that separates us from the rest of our country and keeps us imprisoned in a stamp-sized piece of land; sick of being portrayed as terrorists, homemade fanatics with explosives in our pockets and evil in our eyes; sick of the indifference we meet from the international community, the so-called experts in expressing concerns and drafting resolutions but cowards in enforcing anything they agree on; we are sick and tired of living a ****ty life, being kept in jail by Israel, beaten up by Hamas and completely ignored by the rest of the world.

There is a revolution growing inside of us, an immense dissatisfaction and frustration that will destroy us unless we find a way of canalizing this energy into something that can challenge the status quo and give us some kind of hope. The final drop that made our hearts tremble with frustration and hopelessness happened 30rd November, when Hamas’ officers came to Sharek Youth Forum, a leading youth organization (www.sharek.ps) with their guns, lies and aggressiveness, throwing everybody outside, incarcerating some and prohibiting Sharek from working. A few days later, demonstrators in front of Sharek were beaten and some incarcerated. We are really living a nightmare inside a nightmare. It is difficult to find words for the pressure we are under. We barely survived the Operation Cast Lead, where Israel very effectively bombed the **** out of us, destroying thousands of homes and even more lives and dreams. They did not get rid of Hamas, as they intended, but they sure scared us forever and distributed post traumatic stress syndrome to everybody, as there was nowhere to run.

We are youth with heavy hearts. We carry in ourselves a heaviness so immense that it makes it difficult to us to enjoy the sunset. How to enjoy it when dark clouds paint the horizon and bleak memories run past our eyes every time we close them? We smile in order to hide the pain. We laugh in order to forget the war. We hope in order not to commit suicide here and now. During the war we got the unmistakable feeling that Israel wanted to erase us from the face of the earth. During the last years Hamas has been doing all they can to control our thoughts, behaviour and aspirations. We are a generation of young people used to face missiles, carrying what seems to be a impossible mission of living a normal and healthy life, and only barely tolerated by a massive organization that has spread in our society as a malicious cancer disease, causing mayhem and effectively killing all living cells, thoughts and dreams on its way as well as paralyzing people with its terror regime. Not to mention the prison we live in, a prison sustained by a so-called democratic country.

History is repeating itself in its most cruel way and nobody seems to care. We are scared. Here in Gaza we are scared of being incarcerated, interrogated, hit, tortured, bombed, killed. We are afraid of living, because every single step we take has to be considered and well-thought, there are limitations everywhere, we cannot move as we want, say what we want, do what we want, sometimes we even cant think what we want because the occupation has occupied our brains and hearts so terrible that it hurts and it makes us want to shed endless tears of frustration and rage!

We do not want to hate, we do not want to feel all of this feelings, we do not want to be victims anymore. ENOUGH! Enough pain, enough tears, enough suffering, enough control, limitations, unjust justifications, terror, torture, excuses, bombings, sleepless nights, dead civilians, black memories, bleak future, heart aching present, disturbed politics, fanatic politicians, religious bull****, enough incarceration! WE SAY STOP! This is not the future we want!

We want three things. We want to be free. We want to be able to live a normal life. We want peace. Is that too much to ask? We are a peace movement consistent of young people in Gaza and supporters elsewhere that will not rest until the truth about Gaza is known by everybody in this whole world and in such a degree that no more silent consent or loud indifference will be accepted.

This is the Gazan youth’s manifesto for change!

We will start by destroying the occupation that surrounds ourselves, we will break free from this mental incarceration and regain our dignity and self respect. We will carry our heads high even though we will face resistance. We will work day and night in order to change these miserable conditions we are living under. We will build dreams where we meet walls.

We only hope that you – yes, you reading this statement right now! – can support us. In order to find out how, please write on our wall or contact us directly: freegazayouth@hotmail.com

We want to be free, we want to live, we want peace."

http://mondoweiss.net/2011/01/gaza-youth-breaks-out-with-a-manifesto-for-change.html

[161803398]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?HcAam5kjcH0

[norman]

And so if "children" in Gaza are still shooting bottle rockets and the Israeli forces are showing restraint... what does that suggest? Again IF this is true and IF this holds up... what then might this suggest?


It would suggest to me that there are "agents" in Gaza firing those rockets.

Not unlike what I suspect was going on at the Syria/Turkey border a few weeks ago.

[PathWalker]

Israeli official: Palestinian fighters in Gaza launch 12 rockets into Israel during the hour after a truce was announced
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/gaza/israeli-official-palestinian-fighters-gaza-launch-12-rockets-israel-during-hour-after
Palestinian fighters in the Gaza Strip launched 12 rockets into Israel during the hour after a ceasefire was announced with Israel, an Israeli police spokesman said.

Israel and Hamas movement agreed to an Egyptian-sponsored ceasefire that came into effect at 9 p.m. (1900 GMT) to halt an eight-day conflict around the Gaza Strip that has killed more than 140 Palestinians and five Israelis.

Spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said the 12 rockets landed in open areas and caused no damage or casualties.

"We have not changed our mode of alert and remain vigilant," Rosenfeld said.

An Israeli military spokeswoman said the "Iron Dome" anti-missile system had intercepted some of the rockets. She added that Israel had ceased all air strikes on Gaza after the ceasefire came into effect.

In Gaza, witnesses reported one explosion shortly after the truce took effect, but there were no casualties and the cause of the blast was unclear.

[PathWalker]

OP-ED: Promises vs. reality
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4309940,00.html
From Israeli newspaper.


Although Hamas and the Islamic Jihad have suffered a serious blow, the Gaza entity has not waved a white flag. It hasn't blinked, one of the reasons being the IDF's accurate hits. What seems like a positive phenomenon to us helped the Hamas regime survive. Add to that the fact that Hamas has become the strongest Palestinian factor, holding negotiations with the Netanyahu government, which repeatedly ignores the Palestinian Authority.



In background talks, some of the government's top nine ministers say the operation will help turn Gaza into an independent entity. In the future, they explain, it won't be linked to the West Bank, and this will force Egypt to take responsibility for what is happening in the Strip. This is Likud ministers' dream: That the new, post-operation reality will forever connect the Strip to Muslim Brotherhood's Egypt.


The truth must be told: In the future as well, Hamas will determine how long the lull will last. The height of the flames will be decided in Gaza


And there is another lesson we should remember: The statements decision makers are expected to make, that every rocket will be met with a response, cannot be trusted. Israel will practice restraint in the future as well.

And my sad point of view, this is not the last round in the conflict.

[Billy]

My thoughts'

Although the Palestinians voted Hamas in office, Now they need to have a vote of no confidence in their Government and demand a new election.

Peace

[PathWalker]

Who needs a victory shot?
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4309053,00.html
Another OP-ED, very realistic and pragmatic, which I resonate with..


The State of Israel is surrounded by more than 200,000 missiles and rockets. The Arab countries around us, and the Palestinians, have learned their lessons from the past: They cannot overpower the Israeli Air Force. They have also learned another thing, most likely following the first Gulf War: The civilian population is vulnerable, and responds with extreme mood swings.


In accordance with these understandings, Arab countries and terror organizations have armed themselves with an incredible amount of missiles and rockets. But the IDF's actions this week have led the Arabs to a new insight: A combination of excellent intelligence and an outstanding Air Force can neutralize a significant part of the rocket and missile threat. The Iron Dome defense system adds to the heavy blow they suffered.


Pillar of Defense is just another chapter in Israel's book of wars. In two months or two years time, if not earlier, the situation will repeat itself: Once again they will try to strike us with missiles, once against the Air Force will embark on its missions, and once again Iron Dome batteries will rise to neutralize the threat.


This is our life here, in the "villa in the jungle," as Defense Minister Ehud Barak once said. There is no need for any "victory image." It will be more than enough if Chief of Staff Benny Gantz, whose army has done a very good job this week, says today or tomorrow that this stage is over. To be continued, unfortunately.

[Chester]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?HcAam5kjcH0


so much blow back from intervention in areas we shouldn't be involved in

exactly - Thanks Dr. Paul.

But that's why you aren't President elect - you actually have a clue

[161803398]

I got this from Wikipedia. The Chinese say that when you point a finger at someone you point five fingers back at yourself. I have a few male friends who are extremely educated and intelligent and some of the things they tell me about "other people" are quite illuminating, not about the "others" but about themselves.

"Netanyahu believed in Greater Israel. When the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was published (November 29, 1947), he joined others who signed the petition against the plan that was published in the New York Times.[10] During that time, he was active in engaging with Congress members in Washington, D.C.. He returned to Palestine (now the newly-established State of Israel) in 1949, wher
e he tried to start a political career but failed.

Relentlessly hawkish, he also believed that the "vast majority of Israeli Arabs would choose to exterminate us if they had the option to do so".[11] In his younger days, he had been strongly in favour of the idea of Arab transfer out of Palestine.[12]

In 2009 he told Maariv "The tendency to conflict is the essence of the Arab. He is an enemy by essence. His personality won't allow him to compromise. It doesn't matter what kind of resistance he will meet, what price he will pay. His existence is one of perpetual war."" Wikipedia

[Chester]

And so if "children" in Gaza are still shooting bottle rockets and the Israeli forces are showing restraint... what does that suggest? Again IF this is true and IF this holds up... what then might this suggest?


It would suggest to me that there are "agents" in Gaza firing those rockets.

Not unlike what I suspect was going on at the Syria/Turkey border a few weeks ago.

you can't be serious! well... hummmmm could that actually be true? Hummmm none of "us" people could know though could we? WoW! What a revelation... the same games - "false flag ops" work over and over and over and over OR... maybe it really is idiots hurling bottle rockets at a nuclear power that is backed by an even greater nuclear power... but "we" "the people" can never know... yet we love the distraction, we love the drama, we love to play arm chair quarterback or better still we love to "judge" as if we actually could ever really do so righteously as to which side may be right, which sides winning, which sides losing... on and on and on...

The only reason I am going on and on and on is because I believe Bill and the crew screen the Avalon crowd for those who actually have the potential to get a clue - anyways, just to show I can drop it - I have made my point and don't need to hammer it anymore, I will take leave of this thread and get back to more important issues, like why did someone torch the Ecuadorian embassy in Costa Rica this morning at 5:05 AM local time (just a block away from my home).

Love to All and may Peace Prevail somehow - Chester

[astrid]

Harry is on talk back radio right now..

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/kcaatv


Call in with questions, 888 908 1050 KCAA Ustream

[PathWalker]

A sad caricature in Israeli newspaper. Reflecting the public opinion:
http://images.globes.co.il/images/NewGlobes/gibliSite/VsighnS.jpg
The title is Hamas, we could easily change it to Israel as well.

[161803398]

"Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."

Proverbs 16:18

But having said that, I remember what it was like when I went to Northern Ireland for the first time. In Belfast, people just lived with a certain level of stress that had become their normal state of being and without being aware of it. Walking around Belfast was horrible...always thinking there might be a car bomb. There never was but the thought was there. Armagh was the worst for me. There were soldiers in Khaki with machine guns all over the streets. Even though the English soldiers were very well trained and extremely nice; just the sight of them made me so stressed I had to get out there and drive back to the south and sit in a field for a while to get over it. I understand how people want to stop that fear and feel safe. I understand how some people start to hate.

I lost the fear when I started to understand the IRA a little better. However, what people didn't know at the time was that M15 had infiltrated and...well that's another story.

[panopticon]

This article on the Israeli Governments decision makers and their attitudes towards the cease fire deal was very interesting:

Behind the scenes of Israel's decision to accept Gaza truce (http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/diplomania/behind-the-scenes-of-israel-s-decision-to-accept-gaza-truce.premium-1.479819)

[Flash]

This article on the Israeli Governments decision makers and their attitudes towards the cease fire deal was very interesting:

Behind the scenes of Israel's decision to accept Gaza truce (http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/diplomania/behind-the-scenes-of-israel-s-decision-to-accept-gaza-truce.premium-1.479819)

full text available to subscribers only for 4$ a month

[161803398]

http://www.timesofisrael.com/tv-report-warnings-that-peace-deals-with-egypt-jordan-could-collapse-led-israel-to-end-hamas-assault-with-no-ground-offensive/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

"Israel received warnings from Washington and Cairo that its peace treaties with both Egypt and Jordan would be “endangered” if it sent ground forces into Gaza to confront Hamas this week, Israel’s Channel 2 reported Thursday.

The warnings played “a central role” in Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s decision to agree to a ceasefire on Wednesday without having ordered a much-anticipated ground incursion. The warnings were conveyed to Mossad chief Tamir Pardo, who played a key behind-the-scenes role in the ceasefire talks, the report said"

[panopticon]

This article on the Israeli Governments decision makers and their attitudes towards the cease fire deal was very interesting:

Behind the scenes of Israel's decision to accept Gaza truce (http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/diplomania/behind-the-scenes-of-israel-s-decision-to-accept-gaza-truce.premium-1.479819)

full text available to subscribers only for 4$ a month

Sorry 'bout that. It was freely available when I accessed it...

Try this link (if it doesn't work I've got a copy here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=19411&d=1353632634)):
http://t.co/aNRaw3ZS

The report was essentially showing the way the Foreign Minister and Defence Minister were on polar opposites (Lieberman wanted a ground assault, even if a limited one) and Netanyahu was moving between positions. The group of 9 were split until Barak (Foreign Minister) and a number of other Ministers swayed Lieberman & co to agreeing (on the day of the agreement) that a ground incursion was not a viable option (foreign opinion/diplomacy had a big part to play in this). What I found interesting was that the reports of a cease fire agreement, 24-hours before there was one, were accurate as only a few of the hard liners (eg Lieberman) were in disagreement (they saw it as strengthening Hamas and giving in to Morsi's pro-Palestinian position). One of the reasons it was agreed to in the end was that given there is a high chance of the cease fire agreement being broken Lieberman etc felt it would then legitimise an IDF incursion in the eyes of the world.


Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz and Interior Minister Eli Yishai both advocated for intensifying the operation in Gaza. Steinitz said there should be a ground invasion with the goal of overthrowing Hamas, while Yishai argued that Israel should continue to strike all possible targets in Gaza by air.

Barak, together with ministers Dan Meridor and Benny Begin, expressed fierce opposition to Steinitz and Yishai. At one point Netanyahu openly sided with those advocating for the cease-fire agreement, while Lieberman insisted Steinitz had the right idea.

Ultimately, Lieberman also made clear that there was no choice but to accept the cease-fire. "The decision is simple," the foreign minister said at the Forum of Nine meeting. "Rabin said that if they fire from Gaza, we will reoccupy, but this is obviously difficult. There are a lot of emotions going around, and I identified with the finance minister, but reality is more complex."

BTW I've found it interesting the way the Iron Dome defence system has been getting advertised in almost every US/Israeli Governments sound bite.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[panopticon]

IDF Soldiers have opened fire on a group who entered the border buffer zone near Khan Yunis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Yunis), killing one adult and injuring 10 youths.

[astrid]

Harry Fear -from twitter

"Accidental breaking of the ceasefire by Israel sources? "

He is live right now, trying to figure out what this means,
IDF, spokesperson, not answering their phone...
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/operation-pillar-of-cloud#utm_campaign=t.co&utm_source=12576643&utm_medium=social

RT just called him, wanting a report on this event.

From RT just now..

"One adult has been killed and at least 10 teenagers injured after Israeli soldiers opened fire at the Gaza-Israel border, Gaza medical authorities claimed.

The incident happened east of the city of Khan Yunis in southern Gaza.

The deceased was identified as 20-year-old Anwar Qudaih, Gaza-based journalist Harry Fear reported.

This incident is the first disruption of a shaky ceasefire. The shooting comes two days after Israeli troops and Hamas fighters laid down arms following eight days of heated conflict.

­DETAILS TO FOLLOW"

http://rt.com/news/palestinian-gaza-killed-teenager-border-402/


19414

Image of border in question

[PathWalker]

IDF Soldiers have opened fire on a group who entered the border buffer zone near Khan Yunis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Yunis), killing one adult and injuring 10 youths.

This is a test. To validate the intentions of the parties involved.
I believe all is well planned in advanced and nothing is coincidental.

The push for WW3 is relentless and will not cease till 22/dec/2012.

[161803398]

http://www.amazon.com/The-Most-Dangerous-Book-World/dp/1937584178 S.K. Bain says the important date is December 25, 2012 the rising of the new sun of the next 26K years or 2K if you listen to the Theosophists. He thinks something will happen on that day he calls the "Black Christmas".

Here is something else I found about Gideon Levy. Does anyone know about him? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/is-gideon-levy-the-most-hated-man-in-israel-or-just-the-most-heroic-2087909.html

“I want to be proud of my country,” he says. “I am an Israeli patriot. I want us to do the right thing.” So this requires him to point out that Palestinian violence is – in truth – much more limited than Israeli violence, and usually a reaction to it. “The first twenty years of the occupation passed quietly, and we did not lift a finger to end it. Instead, under cover of the quiet, we built the enormous, criminal settlement enterprise,” where Palestinian land is seized by Jewish religious fundamentalists who claim it was given to them by God. Only then – after a long period of theft, and after their attempts at peaceful resistance were met with brutal violence - did the Palestinians become violent themselves. “What would happen if the Palestinians had not fired Qassams [the rockets shot at Southern Israel, including civilian towns]? Would Israel have lifted the economic siege? Nonsense. If the Gazans were sitting quietly, as Israel expects them to do, their case would disappear from the agenda. Nobody would give any thought to the fate of the people of Gaza if they had not behaved violently.”

[Rocky_Shorz]

and when the lights come back on...

http://nasin.net/file/pic/photo/2012/03/5f50312c8d8e71318ed4051cceeb7bf5_1024.jpg

shhh...

[161803398]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/15/assassinating-the-chance-for-calm.html

[161803398]

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/sterilize-palestinian-people-dutch-writer-leon-de-winter-says-israeli-ambassador

"On the night a ceasefire came into effect ending eight days of Israeli slaughter that left 162 people, the vast majority unarmed civilians, dead in Gaza, Dutch columnist and author Leon de Winter proposed adding chemicals to Gaza’s water supply to sterilize the population."

[161803398]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embe

[ThePythonicCow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=
I have no clue what Youtube video you intended to post - the URL got too badly mangled during the posting to be recognizable :).

Sorry.

[panopticon]

Just as a reminder to those who are interested:

From the 28th September here's an article done by RT on the upcoming Palestinian application for non-member observer status at the UN on the 29th November:
Abbas: Palestine must have non-member UN status (http://rt.com/news/un-israel-palestine-conflict-161/)

A quick report on the same:

b8mQsEJrU8M
Also...
Arafat's corpse is being exhumed and recommitted on the 27th November. Tests are being done to find a cause of death (in particular Polonium (http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/whatkilledarafat/2012/07/20127395543834689.html) is being checked for):
Arafat to be exhumed on Tuesday over poisoning claim (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20475737)

Here's an article from Reuters on the discovery of polonium in some of Arafat's samples from earlier this year:
Swiss institute finds polonium in Arafat's effects (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/03/us-palestinians-arafat-idUSBRE8621CL20120703)

Here's the original investigative piece by Al Jazeera that has led to the exhumation:

KBT7o0piZ8E
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[panopticon]

The Israeli Government really doesn't want Abba's to go to the UN.
How about these nifty little cartoons done by the Israeli Embassy in the US.
These are from the official Israeli Embassy Youtube channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/IsraelEmbDC) (they are not a hoax, not sure what they are actually).

OPD1EwbPc1s

rKxcz5m4OZ4
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[astrid]

http://rt.com/news/israel-gaza-weapons-ship-528/
Israel may strike at ship allegedly carrying Iranian rockets to Gaza

[astrid]

From Harry's twitter feed .. “ Overnight Gazan fishermen were attacked in
southern Gazan territorial waters by Israeli naval forces with live fire. No injuries reported.”

[panopticon]

Ehud Barak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehud_Barak), Israel's Minister of Defence has announced that he will not be standing in the January elections.
He says he wants to spend more time with his family and has had it with politics.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[panopticon]

As part of the cease fire agreement Palestinian fishermen have been able to move beyond the 3 mile exclusion zone out to a new limit of 6 miles (if they go beyond this they are fired upon).
Also the "buffer zone" around the Gaza Strip, where IDF soldiers had previously fired on people, now seems accessible to Palestinian farmers, Police etc (though this appears to change from day to day).

Here's an article from November 2010 on the buffer zone:
Hard times drive Gazans into perilous 'buffer zone (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11721118)

Compared to an article published 26 November 2012 (there is a short video on the site as well):


Ceasefire allows Hamas police to patrol 'no-go border'

Hamas police have for the first time been allowed to patrol along the no-go border area between Israel and Gaza.

As a result of the provisional ceasefire agreement, some Palestinian farmers have been allowed to tend to their lands after several years of restrictions.

Egyptian mediators have begun separate talks with Hamas and Israel to work out details of a ceasefire agreed last week that ended eight days of fighting in the Gaza Strip.

But it has come at a heavy price for other Gazans. People are still dying of the injuries sustained during the war.

Aleem Maqbool reports.
Source (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20501485)
Also Al Jazeera has an interesting graphic (from Visualizing Palestine (http://visualizingpalestine.org)) that compares casualties since 2000.

http://visualizingpalestine.org/sites/default/files/images/inforgraphics/vp-violence-timeline-2012-11-23_0.png
http://visualizingpalestine.org/sites/default/files/images/inforgraphics/vp-violence-timeline-2012-11-23_0.png
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[astrid]

_1o9Jv4Lg90

[161803398]

9DrSPFYXUfQ

[panopticon]

9DrSPFYXUfQ
Exceptional speech from Roger Waters thank you for sharing it 161803398.
Liked the fact that he addressed the problems associated with the veto power and mentioned Rachel Corrie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie).
Here's an interview with her done a few days before the bull-dozer killed her in 2003:

O3JI-axaRF4
Report from Al Jazeera on an Israeli courts decision that the driver of the dozer was not at fault:

CXA0VnJFip4

[Rocky_Shorz]

announcing building 200,000 homes to divide the West Bank, not releasing $100M tax revenues, and now launching a shell into Israel killing 4...

they want Abbas tossed aside by Palestine so they can get back to Warmongering...

I'm amazed Hamas has held back the rockets...

[Chester]

http://news.yahoo.com/israel-withholds-palestinian-funds-u-n-vote-113933165.html

What are the choices? Continue fanning the flames of fire OR, take the high road and do what is known as "debt forgiveness" Hummmmm What would be the better choice? For our children? What can we teach here?

That when someone is on their knees, slam them with a baseball bat?

Or, extend a hand and help them get back on their feet?

I wish they would just get it all over with and soon (and by whatever means they wish - all inclusive, even self annihilation for all I care) so the rest of us who are somewhat held hostage by their childish clown show could get something productive done around here like shifting the current direction of our planet towards the possibility it might still exists in 100 years - doable, despite those who relish in hating themselves.

[astrid]

XfLQopBb5Q0

Latest from Harry

[Chester]

Confession time -

I have been having a massive amount of off the chart synchronicity experiences of late. Yesterday morning I was watching a few Youtube videos of one my personal favorite people on Planet Earth, Roger Waters -

s2udX9bIsx0

and this one where he shares a great deal about his views -

_j1IkW_xZuA

I even wanted to make a post and when I tried to submit the post (was in the Here and Now thread) I got that strange and rare message "Token Has Expired" and alas, lost my content.

I said to myself, "I guess it wasn't meant to be."

So anyways, this morning I am scrolling through the latest in this thread which I had hoped to boycott because I had reached the point I am so sick of this Israeli / Arab BS I even posted stupid garbage such as - "I wish they would just get their issues over with, even if it means they do so destructively and even if the event spills over and becomes a global event, etc."

I was hoping to make a point that if we still like to do war, then perhaps we deserve to achieve final, self annihilation. Obviously I don't "mean it."

Obviously stupid of me...

So who am I? I often wonder... but yet last night I found myself at a restaurant/bar because I wanted to watch an NFL game and there was an old friend and the next thing I know we started debating about the middle east. My friend got quite wound up about it. His position about it was that its all the fault of the Arab neighbors of Israel and that the current Gazans deserve exactly what gets dished out to them.

I got hot. I got animated. I found myself taking sides. But then I recovered and regained my truer perspective - that I am really at war with war itself. But the key here is I was at war. And worse, I found myself at war with my friend. In less than a minute from the beginning of the conversation, it was heated.

And so I get the nice, right slap in the face when I watch my hero in the above video - Found in Post # 315

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52030-Israel-starts-Assassination-of-Hamas-leaders...&p=592017&viewfull=1#post592017

So where do we start? Where is the line drawn where there was peace and then one party or the other generated the first offense?

Waters makes a good case.

I hate to say it... I really do - but I am finding myself taking sides and I do not like this at all about myself... but truth is what is true.

I raised hell in another thread about folks sticking their head in the sand - but what then have I been doing with some of my posts in this thread?

I still take the position both sides are wrong if they resort to war... but like I expect Wilcock to do better... I think so can Israel do better. And I am beginning to accept the likelihood they don't want to do better - they meaning some in the leadership of Israel and they meaning some in the leadership of the United States.

There is zero excuse and Israel and the US know better (and there are others involved in this as well but I won't list them).

I apologize for my stupidity on this one. Thanks Roger Waters for taking care to the highest level you can.

Chester - justoneidiot sometimes

[PathWalker]

I got hot. I got animated. I found myself taking sides. But then I recovered and regained my truer perspective - that I am really at war with war itself. But the key here is I was at war. And worse, I found myself at war with my friend. In less than a minute from the beginning of the conversation, it was heated.


Greetings and blessing for your revelation that you are one more human that is breaking away from the divide and conquer matrix.
The conflict at hand is artificially perpetuated and conserved to fuel the divide and conquer diversion. But the people including you start to wake up and it is less intense as it was. More balanced and pragmatic, less emotional.

The propaganda "mass hypnosis" is taking our "critical factor" off guard using intense emotional reactions. If we can see these fake emotional reaction in scope and balance. We neutralize the propaganda (from both sides).
Doing wrong is not an excuse for more wrong doing. As this is the excuse for current wars.



I hate to say it... I really do - but I am finding myself taking sides and I do not like this at all about myself... but truth is what is true.

I raised hell in another thread about folks sticking their head in the sand - but what then have I been doing with some of my posts in this thread?


If you take side you serve the puppet masters, TPTB. If you see the idiocy and control structures (on both sides of the conflict), you understand that this is not people warring here. The people are sick and tired of this, the extremist are perpetrating the war, failing any solution or proposition.

Good luck with your awaking. It starts with lots of anger, that is replaced with awe and spiritual understanding.

[161803398]

I remember a short story I read when I was in High School about a very fat woman who did nothing but sit in a chair in her apartment, eat and watch a screen with some kind of activity on it...maybe something like a TV set or maybe she was playing computer games. I remember thinking what a stupid story that was. HA!!!! I often think of that story now because of our technology and what I see happening to people. But 1984 can never happen and neither can the Brave New World....because of the tipping point and the fact that a small group of people will never sit still or stop thinking or moving....eventually, the herd will move.

I watched the trailer for the Landfill Harmonic today...people in Paraguay making an Orchestra out of trash.

I think we are hardwired to save ourselves..slow as we may be.

I can't "take sides" because of Ireland...but I knew who needed a kick in rear then too and a lot of them were my relatives.

[jackovesk]

Does anyone really think BeBe is going to get away with it..?

Dr. Steve Pieczenik MD Ph.D (ex-Black Ops, CIA Psychiatrist & ex-CFR Member) went as far as to say Bebe Netanayu should be taken out..!

See & Hear it all here...:yes4:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?50659-The-TRUTH-about-911-The-Culprits-the-New-Hitler...---

Bye-Bye Bebe...:)

[Fred Steeves]

9DrSPFYXUfQ


I'm quite surprised at the high regard Roger Waters has for the U.N., and what this world governing body thinks or does. I truly am.

[161803398]

I'm quite surprised at the high regard Roger Waters has for the U.N., and what this world governing body thinks or does. I truly am.

He understands formality, is all.

[PathWalker]

Gaza: Palestinian Rockets Unlawfully Targeted Israeli Civilians
http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/12/24/gaza-palestinian-rockets-unlawfully-targeted-israeli-civilians

“Palestinian armed groups made clear in their statements that harming civilians was their aim,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. “There is simply no legal justification for launching rockets at populated areas.”
Under international humanitarian law, or the laws of war, civilians and civilian structures may not be subject to deliberate attacks or attacks that do not discriminate between civilians and military targets. Anyone who commits serious laws-of-war violations intentionally or recklessly is responsible for war crimes

Human Rights Watch research in Gaza found that armed groups repeatedly fired rockets from densely populated areas, near homes, businesses, and a hotel, unnecessarily placing civilians in the vicinity at grave risk from Israeli counter-fire.

The Palestinian armed groups that are known to have launched rockets at Israel – Hamas' Izz el-Din al-Qassam Brigades, Islamic Jihad's Saraya al-Quds Brigades, and the Popular Resistance Committee's Nasser Salahaddin Brigades – at times said that their attacks targeted civilians or they sought to justify the attacks by calling them reprisals for Israeli attacks that killed civilians in Gaza.

The rockets launched by Palestinian groups cannot be aimed precisely enough to target military objectives in or near civilian areas, Human Rights Watch said. Under the laws of war, such weapons are therefore indiscriminate when used against targets in population centers. The absence of Israeli military forces in the areas where rockets hit, as well as statements by leaders of Palestinian armed groups that population centers were being targeted, indicate that the armed groups deliberately attacked Israeli civilians and civilian objects.

One cannot be more hypocritical then this.

[kaon]

Gaza: Palestinian Rockets Unlawfully Targeted Israeli Civilians
http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/12/24/gaza-palestinian-rockets-unlawfully-targeted-israeli-civilians

“Palestinian armed groups made clear in their statements that harming civilians was their aim,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. “There is simply no legal justification for launching rockets at populated areas.”
Under international humanitarian law, or the laws of war, civilians and civilian structures may not be subject to deliberate attacks or attacks that do not discriminate between civilians and military targets. Anyone who commits serious laws-of-war violations intentionally or recklessly is responsible for war crimes

Human Rights Watch research in Gaza found that armed groups repeatedly fired rockets from densely populated areas, near homes, businesses, and a hotel, unnecessarily placing civilians in the vicinity at grave risk from Israeli counter-fire.

The Palestinian armed groups that are known to have launched rockets at Israel – Hamas' Izz el-Din al-Qassam Brigades, Islamic Jihad's Saraya al-Quds Brigades, and the Popular Resistance Committee's Nasser Salahaddin Brigades – at times said that their attacks targeted civilians or they sought to justify the attacks by calling them reprisals for Israeli attacks that killed civilians in Gaza.

The rockets launched by Palestinian groups cannot be aimed precisely enough to target military objectives in or near civilian areas, Human Rights Watch said. Under the laws of war, such weapons are therefore indiscriminate when used against targets in population centers. The absence of Israeli military forces in the areas where rockets hit, as well as statements by leaders of Palestinian armed groups that population centers were being targeted, indicate that the armed groups deliberately attacked Israeli civilians and civilian objects.

One cannot be more hypocritical then this.

Your final quote does have some truth to it. The "rockets" that are fired from The Palestinian resistance are crude and have no guidance systems. Where they land, is where they land. Most of them don't explode either because they are not armed. The "rockets" that I can purchase from a high end hobby shop would qualify in the statistics. It is pure deception when the media says hundreds of rockets were fired from Palestine and then show pictures of a 20 foot tall rocket.

That being said, a typical Israeli response or offensive is with fighter jets and 1,000 pound bombs all aimed carefully, but with devastation to civilians. There is absolutely no denying that fact. There is also no denying that the "human shield" and rockets from playgrounds is OLD Israeli propaganda and the world is finally seeing through the deception. The Palestinians who are resisting the occupation of their Country are constantly on the move because they don't have ANY military installations to fire from.