A Free Energy Cooperative funded by the crowd

[zippy]

Dear Avalonians!

I'm following this forum for a few years now, but this is my very first post. So here we go.

The Question why we don't have free energy for decades now, has in the meantime become largely self-answered (it's all about the money). I think that if we ever want to have free energy, we need to get involved. But how? A few month ago there was a Tesla-Museum-Crowdfunding Campaign on indiegogo.com. http://www.indiegogo.com/teslamuseum
It quickly reached it's funding goal. This shows people are interested in Tesla and is inventions, or have heard of free energy or zero point energy. In times where energy is getting more expensive every day people are looking for altenatives.

There are countless projects, inventors and inventions dealing with free energy. Most of them are hoping for the big money, which is (imho) contrary to the idea of free energy. Well why not start a crowdfunding campaign for ourselves to fund a promising project? Personally, I find the work and approach of this german professor the most interesting: http://www.ostfalia.de/cms/de/pws/turtur/Video-english.html
You have to scroll down the page for the videos on yt.

We also could establish a cooperative (like the famous Mondragon Corporation) and bring the results to the market for ourselves. The idea is still being developed, this posting an initial draft.

What do you think?


Regards
Zip

[christian]

I think building a (virtual) community, where talented people present their ideas and prototypes, so that the community can decide to support a particular inventor or invention financially or otherwise is the way to organize corporations in the new paradigm.

You're talking about Prof. Turtur, right? I'm no professional scientist, so I cannot judge whether or not his concepts work, but I heard quite some criticizm from professionals in the alternative field. I appreciate his effort to make a difference in the field of alternative energy anyways. Here are the videos you referred to:

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This is a 35 page PDF (http://www.ostfalia.de/export/sites/default/de/pws/turtur/NeuesVerzeichnis/Film_englisch.pdf) from that website explaining the science behind his idea.

[Ilie Pandia]

Hello,

If you are seriously interested in Free Energy I cannot recommend enough the writings of Wade Frazier starting with this essay here: http://www.ahealedplanet.net/paradigm.htm

What is most inetersting about Wade is that he writes from direct experience in the Free Energy milieu. He was beside Dennis Lee mounting what was probably the best effort so far in bringing FE to the general public, so he has quite a story to share...

After going through Wade's website you will notice that not money, nor the science are the problem. Money is irrelevant, a shadow of something else, and the scientific challenge has been solved long ago, most likely in the Tesla days.

The major problem is that people simply don't care enough about anything, save their full bellies.

As you've noticed working towards Free Energy to get money out of it makes no sense! With the same reasoning supporting FE projects just to save on your energy bill goes back to the remark about full bellies and not caring.

There are already quite a few threads on this subject such as this one:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?10672-WADE-FRAZIER-A-Healed-Planet&p=584242#post584242

[TargeT]

I've followed this topic around and around and have yet to see ONE SINGLE demonstrated technology that is worth funding (with the exception of two: LENR & LFTR).


and THAT I think answeres your question of why no crowd source funding has cropped up yet.

Currently I think the best prospects for Free Energy (I like to call it "Easy energy") are LENR (Low energy nuclear reactions) or LFTR (Liquid Flouride Thorium Reactors) implemented technology.

for LENR there is the working (suposedly I have not seen it with my own eyes but I feel it is functional) E-Cat http://ecat.com/

for LFTR, well we had a reactor running for around 10 years in the US during the 1940's... (this is still the most viable IMO, china and india are currently working to build facilities that leverage this technology)

All else are half-baked ideas at best.. I will read the PDF ( http://www.ostfalia.de/export/sites/default/de/pws/turtur/NeuesVerzeichnis/Film_englisch.pdf )on the link & perhaps it will change my mind, but I highly doubt it at this point.


I think building a (virtual) community, where talented people present their ideas and prototypes, so that the community can decide to support a particular inventor or invention financially or otherwise is the way to organize corporations in the new paradigm.

Like this? http://peswiki.com/index.php/Main_Page ?



If you really feel like voting with your dollars (an action I highly encourage) I cannot think of a better place than this:

http://www.indiegogo.com/ericdollard

The modern day Tesla needs assistance.

[zippy]

Apperently so far no one has understood my point. It's about to get active, no longer to be an observer. To take matters into one's own hands.There are always just a few that are changing the world.

Six steps for a Free Energy Cooperation:

1. Find a practical or promising scientific approach that you think is credible. Talk to these people (inventors, scientists, whoever). If you like them and what they do, make an agreement about a collaboration.

2. Find and convince a handful like-minded people.

3. Scrape up $5-10K. Make or better ask a professional to make a video (2-3 min.) of what your planning, of you and your team. Show the technology with all its implications for the future, so that everyone understands it. After all you want to raise the money to realize your dream, for the better of mankind.

4. Establish a non-profit cooperative which takes care of all the legal aspects.

5. Start a campaign on kickstarter.com, indiegogo.com, etc. Bang the drum.

6. If the required amount is met, let the pros do their job. It will probably take a few years from a proof of concept to a usable product. So keep your supporters/backers informed.

From my perspective in this discussion we already stuck at point 2.

cheers
Zip

[Ilie Pandia]

Hello Zip,

I understand your rush into getting active, but don't you think that you are skipping a few steps? :)

Like looking what others have tried before you? What works and what is not working?

The reason I've mentioned Wade Frazier is that he and Dennis Lee went beyond "getting active" or $5-10k... way way beyond that!

We are not stuck at point 2, were at point 0 really :).

[zippy]

Hello Zip,

I understand your rush into getting active, but don't you think that you are skipping a few steps? :)

Like looking what others have tried before you? What works and what is not working?

The reason I've mentioned Wade Frazier is that he and Dennis Lee went beyond "getting active" or $5-10k... way way beyond that!

We are not stuck at point 2, were at point 0 really :).

Has anyone of these guys started a crowd funding campaign? I don't think so. The amount of money, $5-10K is to set up a campain, nor for developing a free energy generator or something like that. Prof. Turtur mentioned by christian, talked about $1M to build a prototype for his "vacuum energy motor", I know that. No offense but you guys always only see obstacles no solutions.

[zippy]

You're talking about Prof. Turtur, right? I'm no professional scientist, so I cannot judge whether or not his concepts work, but I heard quite some criticizm from professionals in the alternative field. Can you tell me please, what these professionals critisize? Or is it just the usual hearsay?

[Nick Matkin]

A good idea Zippy. But we are assuming there is such a thing as 'free energy' accessible with current (or nearly current) technology. Has anyone ACTUALLY DEMONSTRATED it - anywhere?

The internet is already full of forums, websites and Youtube videos discussing it and 'demonstrating' it, but how many of these are just hoaxes, scams/frauds or just well meaning but technically-illiterate amateur experimenters who don't even know their volts from their amps or how to use basic test equipment?

The bringing together of ideas internationally can only be a good thing, but I suspect this will be as successful as grouping thousands of people to develop a way of making diamonds in your kitchen out of widely-available household items! Yes, someone MAY come up with a method that no one has ever discovered before, but it's unlikely...

Nick

[Jean-Luc]

What is most interesting about Wade is that he writes from direct experience in the Free Energy milieu. He was beside Dennis Lee mounting what was probably the best effort so far in bringing FE to the general public, so he has quite a story to share...



As some of you may know, another individual (M.T. Keshe) is currenlty pursuing another strategy that, as far as I know, had never been tried before and is therefore worth considering, all the more as it seems to start baring fruits.

Check this piece of news here with the US, Russia, China, Brazil Australia, India, Japan, Italy and a couple of other nations having just (yesterday) accepted officially the blueprints of the Keshe "Spaceship Program" (and its related energy component).

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52098-Keshe-US-Russia-China-India-Brazil-Japan-now-have-received-the-blueprints

The whole idea is to have the cat get out of the bag by:

(1) sharing the knowledge with ALL governments who make the request
(2) Have this known publically and have the public keeping the pressure on their governments in this matter so they no longer hide for another 100 years
(3) Use some form of competition/emulation/partnership (pick the one you prefer) between nations to get it going despite the limitless conflicts of interets and all we know about big governments & corruption etc. etc.
(4) ... and hopefully have a first limited release of Keshe power generators be indeed available... next month (as once again confirmed by M. Keshe no later than Nov. 7 during a lecture at the Keshe Foundation, Ninove, Belgium)

Next month could be interesting.
Or not. We'll see...
:)

[Robert J. Niewiadomski]

Hi

Nick, there are ca 5000 technology patents on FE/other technology withheld by USPTO only. The excuse for it is a Secrecy Order on terms of threatening "national security" (yeah right). You can look up some statistics here:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/invention/stats.pdf
(back up it please in case of some SNAFU)
I wonder what statistics are for other countries...

People get killed, abused their lives are being destroyed property being seized for chasing, reasearching and developing FE devices. We have a survivor on Avalon of this. You can read his report of the "thrills" he had gone through here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?10672-WADE-FRAZIER-A-Healed-Planet&p=578559&viewfull=1#post578559
the core issue begins in the middle of the above post where Wade describes his early days working for Dennis Lee. Next posts continue on the story...

If you would like to read some positive vision on FE world, look here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?29372-What-technologies-activities-or-concepts-will-be-made-obsolete-by-Free-Energy
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?32399-A-Future-Earth

If you would like to discuss your doubts/fears of FE go here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?32467-Free-Energy---No-way-in-hell-

I hope it will be of some use to you :)

[christian]

You're talking about Prof. Turtur, right? I'm no professional scientist, so I cannot judge whether or not his concepts work, but I heard quite some criticizm from professionals in the alternative field. Can you tell me please, what these professionals critisize? Or is it just the usual hearsay?

Hearsay. Personal conversations with people whom I do respect and who know more about this subject than me. I really don't bother asking them now again, I have no intention to prove Turtur wrong, really just wanted to share my bit of hearsay. I genuinely hope Turtur is successful in what he does.



Has anyone of these guys started a crowd funding campaign? I don't think so. The amount of money, $5-10K is to set up a campain, nor for developing a free energy generator or something like that. Prof. Turtur mentioned by christian, talked about $1M to build a prototype for his "vacuum energy motor", I know that. No offense but you guys always only see obstacles no solutions.

Maybe this has already happened and I just missed it. But if money is the obstacle, I guess I as an inventor would concisely explain what I'm doing, put the info on a website and on youtube and send out the call. You don't need a lot of money to create momentum online, just look at Thrive. When something is solid, it just flows.

[zippy]

Yes, someone MAY come up with a method that no one has ever discovered before, but it's unlikely...

In one of his lectures Prof. Turtur refers to the so called Casimir Effect. This effect is well known. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect
Some of you may have heard about it, this effect was also mentioned in the movie Atlas Shrugged Part I (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480239/)

[TargeT]

As some of you may know, another individual (M.T. Keshe) is currenlty pursuing another strategy that, as far as I know, had never been tried before and is therefore worth considering, all the more as it seems to start baring fruits.

Check this piece of news here with the US, Russia, China, Brazil Australia, India, Japan, Italy and a couple of other nations having just (yesterday) accepted officially the blueprints of the Keshe "Spaceship Program" (and its related energy component).

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52098-Keshe-US-Russia-China-India-Brazil-Japan-now-have-received-the-blueprints

The whole idea is to have the cat get out of the bag by:

(1) sharing the knowledge with ALL governments who make the request
(2) Have this known publically and have the public keeping the pressure on their governments in this matter so they no longer hide for another 100 years
(3) Use some form of competition/emulation/partnership (pick the one you prefer) between nations to get it going despite the limitless conflicts of interets and all we know about big governments & corruption etc. etc.
(4) ... and hopefully have a first limited release of Keshe power generators be indeed available... next month (as once again confirmed by M. Keshe no later than Nov. 7 during a lecture at the Keshe Foundation, Ninove, Belgium)

Next month could be interesting.
Or not. We'll see...
:)

why not share it with the general public,... I am very untrusting of governments or people who choose to deal only with governments.

but as you say, the next month will be interesting; though I am getting tired of these deadlines.