The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

[TraineeHuman]

Is it possible that a 'Guru' with no power, can obtain power simply from his followers belief that he has supernatural powers?

That what starts out as a bluff can then turn into reality?

The expression 'fake it till you make it' comes to mind...

And in this way, a false religion could be started, and that a Demon could obtain God-like powers from the belief of his followers that he is the 'true' God? ...

We base most of our choices on very inadequate information. I see this as a problem to do with points of view rather than intentions. And it doesn't only apply to false gurus -- which is what most so-called gurus certainly are.

Even when we successfully break free of any control matrix and we get our rights to free choice recognised, we have to choose but almost never have enough information to know what the chances are our choice is the best one.

Still, we have to take the plunge. We have to take a position, rather blindly hoping that it's a good one. We all have to have a career in some field or other, and some partner to share our lives with.

I seem to come across one form of this problem very often on this Forum. How do you make it real to someone how inexperienced or ignorant you consider they may seem to be, without in any way offending their precious ego? And how do you get them to begin to look at the possibility of the vastness of how much they don't know?

As Einstein observed: the more we know, the more fully we come to realize how little we actually do know.

Points of view are 7D. Obtaining greater quality of them is an issue to do with things that are 8D and higher.

[AwakeInADream]

Some small success to report on the OBE front:), I had another partial one.
Last time (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=605268&viewfull=1#post605268) I only managed to get my hands out and I could see but this time was different.

I was laying on my side on the couch and I fell asleep but then woke up very quickly,
and as I lay very still I began to feel a tugging on the back of my head and upper back.
This was followed by a very loud rushing wind sound, and I was suddenly half out of my body through the back of my head.

It was a little strange because I couldn't see anything since my spirit eyes must have been in the centre
of my skull in darkness, but I knew I was half out and I knew that I could go fully out if I just allowed the
tugging sensation to pull me a little further.

The only thing that stopped me was that I could feel a presence that I didn't like,
also then I began to hear a man raising his voice in anger some distance away.
This wasn't anything to do with me since I don't think he'd noticed me, but it made me wary.

I still wanted to go further out though so I thought that if my guardian angel and spirit guide where there
I would feel safer, so I called them, but nothing happened.

I was able to repeat this process about three times in a row of getting back in,
and then partly out again through the back of my head making sure that I lay still once I was back in.
(although last time I went out front and I could see, this time whilst I couldn't see, I did seem to have an extra perception that I can't really describe, like I knew what stuff looked like without seeing it:confused:)

I am encouraged by this slight success, but at the same time I think I may have been in an unpleasant
part of the astral world, and I'm a little disappointed that when I call my guides in that no-one ever comes.:(

Is it possible that, because I've only ever achieved a partial result, that perhaps I'm using the wrong body?

Perhaps I'm moving the etheric body slightly out of line with the physical?
Which I think may be dangerous, since I believe the etheric is only supposed to leave upon death.(Not sure here??)
---------------------------
(as I'm writing this I'm getting a very strange DeJaVu feeling, like I've written the exact same thing before:confused:)
------------------------------
EDIT: I remember that last time that my hands were see-through but still felt physical (I could clap) , would this indicate an etheric or an astral body?

Also TH, I have been doing the exercise a lot lately where you feel what it's like to be alive and then expand that awareness to fill the room. This may have helped, but I can't seem to find the post, do you know the post number?

[TraineeHuman]

... I was laying on my side on the couch and I fell asleep but then woke up very quickly,
and as I lay very still I began to feel a tugging on the back of my head and upper back.
This was followed by a very loud rushing wind sound, and I was suddenly half out of my body through the back of my head.
I'm glad you appreciated it was you yourself that was doing the tugging. Someone sent me a PM wondering who was tugging their legs when they were returning to their body -- but it would have been themselves, or maybe an entity they had themselves created because of their own great fear of travelling too far out.
"Half out" of your body? You can only be in or out, for these purposes. So, may I suggest you were already out?


It was a little strange because I couldn't see anything since my spirit eyes must have been in the centre
of my skull in darkness ... No, you couldn't see anything because you hadn't turned the lights on, so to speak. Others on this thread seem to have learnt to do that quite easily just by saying something like: "Awareness now!"


The only thing that stopped me was that I could feel a presence that I didn't like. ...I still wanted to go further out though so I thought that if my guardian angel and spirit guide where there I would feel safer, so I called them, but nothing happened.
... I am encouraged by this slight success, but at the same time I think I may have been in an unpleasant
part of the astral world, and I'm a little disappointed that when I call my guides in that no-one ever comes.:(
Probably your guardian angels and guide thought you were quite capable of handling the situation yourself, and learning from it. And as Justoneman would say, maybe you need to find a way to feel more positive if you encounter what seems like a negative being or a negative situation. As soon as you manage to think or be positive, you'll be meeting a different type of being. Maybe you just need to get used to not being frightened merely at being in the astral? More practice?


Is it possible that, because I've only ever achieved a partial result, that perhaps I'm using the wrong body?
Perhaps I'm moving the etheric body slightly out of line with the physical?
Which I think may be dangerous, since I believe the etheric is only supposed to leave upon death.(Not sure here??) More worrying and negativity. In 4D you think positive and normally that materialises straight away. As it says somewhere in the Old Testament: "That which I feared has come upon me." And the opposite is also true.

...I have been doing the exercise a lot lately where you feel what it's like to be alive and then expand that awareness to fill the room. This may have helped, but I can't seem to find the post, do you know the post number?
Post #114. I wish more people would do it. It's so simple, yet profound.

[TraineeHuman]

...

I've heard it said lately that 'the veil is thinning', so I'm wondering if this is true as a physical fact?
...

Is it really becoming easier as time progresses to see into the higher dimensions?

And also is it getting easier for higher beings to manifest in this one?
First of all, only the 3D world is physical. However, physicality itself is just a very dense layer of Mind or Great Spirit.
Some things did happen around late December. It's not that 3D astronomical phenomena (something physical) were responsible for changing higher D worlds. Rather, the higher D worlds all managed to penetrate more, or reach more, or see more, into the 3D world in this part of the galaxy. Why? Because the physical world in this part of the galaxy has temporarily become less messy, so to speak.
I believe we are all here to spiritualize the physical -- to very gradually recreate a better model of physicality (or "matter") itself.

[AwakeInADream]

A shortcut to experiencing both your selves, the OB and the conventional, is the following exercise. I’m extremely interested to hear if anybody can learn to do this who isn’t an experienced meditator, or a professional in the arts or sports or some other creative field (who has therefore learnt how to work fluently with their intuition). Anybody who tries and fails -- please feel free to share what you experience.

The exercise – which was invented by the late Barry Long -- has two stages. The first stage is what Tolle calls “feeling the aliveness”.

As Barry described it, the first stage involves firstly getting yourself grounded. (There are many ways to get rounded. One simple way is to sit with your thumb touching your belly button and your hand flat against your belly in such a way that the palm of your hand is over your center of gravity, your second chakra.)

Secondly, ask yourself how it really feels simply to be alive. Tune into that feeling. If you are calm and grounded, it will at the very least be a feeling of OK-ness, if not of profound and peaceful joy.

Once you have gotten used to the first stage, the second stage is to allow that good feeling inside all of you to spread all around you, filling the room you are in. Remember, in post #102 I mentioned how the astral body is really the inner “body”. This exercise involves being aware of that “body” as lying both outside of your physical body and also, at the same time, inside of your physical body, where it always can be found. In other words, it involves expanding your astral body so that you can feel its goodness not only inside but all around you.

I suggest this is an ingenious exercise because it is based on asking the simplest and most basic of all questions, namely, how does it truly, deeply feel just to be alive? Because of the simplicity of that question, the question takes you straight to the core of what Buddhists call your Buddha nature, i.e. your true nature.

Thank's TraineeHuman!:) This is the one:thumb:

I'm just bringing this exercise to the front as it has been very valuable to me, but also I have found it to be adaptable.

You see it's been snowing here in the UK recently, and whilst I was walking in it I noticed how irritated I was becoming. The snow was hitting me in just the right spot in the neck so as to get under my clothes and I was getting very cold and angry at the weather lol!

As I was walking I thought of this exercise, and decided to try it then and there. I suppose that there is nothing more grounding than being blasted by snow, so I moved on to observe how it truly felt to be alive in my body, and to my surprise it still felt quite good even with the snow. Then as I expanded my awareness and this feeling into my surroundings, I felt my perceptions to be totally transformed, even the way I saw the landscape. Of course it took a much more sustained effort to stay like this, but it was worth it.

This exercise is nothing short of mind over matter!

[TraineeHuman]

Awake has been kind enough to quote all of post #114 in post #255 just above.

As mentioned in that post, this exercise, even in its first stage, enables a person to just temporarily experience what spiritual enlightenment feels like. The main difference is that this experience is temporary rather than making any permanent change. But that's also quite something, as Awake so eloquently describes in the post just above.

It’s almost so simple, I hesitate to conceptualize about it. The primary thing is to experience it. We can all do it. It’s not hard.

I do remember hearing a tape of a lecture in the seventies by a Californian so-called Zen Master. He said it usually took him fifteen to twenty minutes of sitting still to get his mind still before he could meditate properly. So, if you need that long to get your mind still, do that first. Personally, I often only get to meditate for ten to fifteen minutes a day. I can’t afford to fiddle around, but get straight to it in the first minute. But if you need fifteen minutes to get still and grounded before you do this exercise, than do that first.

Sirdipswitch has mentioned, in at least I think three posts in the thread he started, that for him the main benefit of OB experience was that it helped him experience (spiritual) enlightenment. So, I hope that helps make it clearer why I consider the daily practice of this exercise is so important.

Please also note (further to post #120) that your “inner body” is what survives death – unless, that is, you’ve learnt how to OB travel without any “body”, or you’ve otherwise freed yourself of the belief that you need some type of body in order to exist. In that case, when you die the “inner you” remains, and soon goes to 6D and freedom from any need to reincarnate in the physical.

If you look deeply enough, you’ll see that how you can know the answer to the question “Who/what/(how) am I, in the deepest sense of “I”?” is exactly the same as with the answer to the question “How does it feel simply to be alive?”

[TraineeHuman]

I’d like to make some comments about NLP, and also about its “releasing” technique.

As I understand it, NLP (note: the P is for programming – it’s all programming) is based on the (knowingly) false idea that one’s choice of words completely determines the reality one experiences.

NLP has scripts for everything. E.g., the script for a counsellor says all the things a very compassionate counsellor would say. So, anybody can memorize and then use such a script to fake being a good counsellor, provided they are a good actor, and good at (usually) being a fraud.

I have a considerable conceptual background, including a degree in psychology and a degree in social work and a postgrad degree in philosophy (plus experience working in those fields). I’m quite aware of some very sound reasons, in addition to the one I’ve already described, why the psychological community generally rejects NLP as charlatanism.

But there are other reasons as well. I also have had a huge amount of hands-on training in psychotherapy and counselling, I guess most of it from alternative sources. Suffice it to say that in all my experience, the kind of breakthrough I have seen scores of individuals get from the NLP “release” is altogether superficial to say the least, in comparison to anything to do with spiritual enlightenment. Two years of such “releasing” won’t begin to get anyone near enlightenment – in my professional observation. Don’t listen to amateurs!

“Releasing” won’t provide an experiential understanding of what enlightenment is like. But the exercise discussed in post #256 does do this.

[AwakeInADream]

Don't you see any value in NLP at all?

I kind of like Bandler and Grinders early work.(I've not heard of 'releasing')

It's not spiritual, but then I see the mechanical (and sometimes problematic) part of the mind as something that you have to tame and put out of the way, before you can make any real progress spiritually. I think that a few NLP concepts can compliment the spiritual path quite well, without getting too carried away that is. I can see the danger though if one were to rely solely on NLP, without adding a separate spiritual component.

I think that once you begin to see how easy it is to fool your own mind, then this can help you to see the difference between what is the 'real you' and what is simply programming. I guess I'm probably thinking about NLP in way that was never intended by Bandler and Grinder though.

[TraineeHuman]

The following is a quote from Sri Aurobindo’s Letters on Yoga , pp. 397-398:

“What has to be done [with regard to the hostile forces] is to come to live in the Power that these things, these disturbing elements cannot penetrate or, if they penetrate, cannot disturb, and to be so purified and strengthened by it that there is in oneself no response to anything hostile.

“If there is a protecting envelopment, an inward purifying descent and, as a result, a settling of the higher consciousness in the inner being and finally, its substitution even in the most external outwardly active parts in place of the old ignorant consciousness, then the world and the hostile forces will no longer matter – for one’s own soul at least; for there is [also] a larger work not personal in which of course they will have to be dealt with …”

This sort of attainment of inner Power may at first sound way too ambitious, or too hard, to achieve. Yet it seems to me that Chester has worked out that achieving this Power is his eventual goal. He also seems to have worked out that he can realistically do it, and that he seems to be about halfway there. In some ways, no doubt, he is already there. (It’s also great to see somebody working with so much inspiration (9D) and insights (8D).)

Certainly he is sufficiently there that he presumably no longer fears – well, anything, practically. Certainly – if I understand correctly -- he does not have any problem regarding meeting negative beings or entities in his lucid dreams. If nothing else works, he knows how to wake himself up quickly and be quite out of the bad dream.

This, then, is the best answer I can come up with regarding anyone’s fears or feelings of unsafeness with regard to OB travel – apart from also protecting oneself and grounding oneself beforehand.

If Chester can do it, after the very tough childhood he went through, surely others of you can too, if you work on yourselves in somewhat a similar way to what Chester has done and continues to do. I don’t believe it’s necessary to develop yourself to the point where negative forces don’t make the least impression on you at all. But maybe you can learn to stay strong enough that negative forces don’t have the ability to upset you so much any more. For me, daily meditation has been and remains a powerful way to fill oneself up with positivity, so to speak, that is perhaps too strong to be overcome by the miseries of the jungle we know as civilization.

But really, I don’t care how you do it. Just get yourself into a very positive space (where you still have control of your faculties). From there, practice astral travel or OB travel, and the scary entities and beings will leave you alone. At least, that’s been my experience.

[soleil]

hi TH and everyone, I know i stepped away from this thread a while back...but heres me checking in. I have been spending a lot of time reading many (different) things. I have learned without knowing how (in short) to be aware of my intentions which you related to 6D+. i have also been working on detachment and letting go of ego. which i think has allowed me to deconstruct my fears and 'grok' them at the same time. (sending them to source) has been working for me as well, when i am short on time, and cannot deconstruct my feelings in those moments.
i have also been working on my energy body - im learning how to activating it, feeling it, moving it, etc.
can you perhaps go into detail about abilities in 6D+? and also how often is it necessary to repeat protective affirmations etc? (wakeytweaky and LB i recommend robert bruce, about psychic protection) i just started it, and it seems very appropriate. TH do you oppose this recommendation/book?

TH, i want to add, i've noticed something that i am not sure what it is, but may be related to GA, or HS. when i close my eyes at night i see a BLINDING white light from the corner of my eyes (when they are closed). when i open them the light is gone..??

[TraineeHuman]

hi TH and everyone, I know i stepped away from this thread a while back...but heres me checking in. I have been spending a lot of time reading many (different) things. I have learned without knowing how (in short) to be aware of my intentions which you related to 6D+. i have also been working on detachment and letting go of ego. which i think has allowed me to deconstruct my fears and 'grok' them at the same time. (sending them to source) has been working for me as well, when i am short on time, and cannot deconstruct my feelings in those moments.
i have also been working on my energy body - im learning how to activating it, feeling it, moving it, etc.
can you perhaps go into detail about ... how often is it necessary to repeat protective affirmations etc? (wakeytweaky and LB i recommend robert bruce, about psychic protection) i just started it, and it seems very appropriate. TH do you oppose this recommendation/book?

TH, i want to add, i've noticed something that i am not sure what it is, but may be related to GA, or HS. when i close my eyes at night i see a BLINDING white light from the corner of my eyes (when they are closed). when i open them the light is gone..??

Teradactyl, thank you for asking such penetrating questions. It’ll take at least two posts for me to respond to them all.

I would have been surprised if you weren’t making good progress and achieving lots of new skills and experiences, despite your busy schedule. But thank you for telling us about some of your current issues or areas of interest.

I haven’t read Robert Bruce’s ebooks or done his courses, though I have seen a few videos of his and he obviously does have much depth of experience in astral travel. I also very much like the feel of his “energies”.

I don’t know what his method of psychic protection is. Could you kindly describe it for us all briefly, perhaps? (Or maybe Wakytweaky or Libico may like to comment too?) The primary psychic protection I use is healing light. I use it everywhere, often.

I guess as a person learns to activate their natural psychic healing skills, they learn to use healing light more and more easily. But everyone has natural healing skills. It’s really just a matter of letting the healing energy (and higher D “energy” that’s really Light) flow. It feels very similar to pure love. I can usually see and access golden healing light, but some healers don’t seem to access that readily. The next best thing is a pure white, or bright white healing light. Violet healing light also works.

It’s not just a matter of saying to yourself –and, yes, intending -- that now I am accessing healing light. At least, if you’re able to feel it, then you can just say “surround me and protect me in every way throughout the time I’m doing activity X”. I find that is more than enough in most situations.

But how does a person unlock greater access to their healing energy? I guess through meditation and self-enquiry. My intuition gives me a strong indication, though, T., that you already have quite a lot of healing ability unlocked. I guess if you just imagine and try to feel that healing (or loving) Light is all around you and is protecting you throughout whatever you’re doing next, that should work very well in your case. (All affirmations should be phrased in present tense, because 6D and higher operate in the Now – or beyond time, if you like.)

While we’re on the subject of white and other colored lights, the blindingly bright white being you saw was probably one of your guardian angels. It may also have been a powerful being from a higher dimension who may be acting as a guide. Either way, it’s a big compliment to you that the being is letting you see them in 4D. It’s also evidence that you’re seeing a being who would be coming from 6D or 7D though visible as bright light in 4D. (Incidentally, my understanding is that the bright white light (probably not as bright as the one you’ve seen) that most people see when they die is themselves.)

It’s obvious that Robert Bruce teaches a lot of self-hypnosis techniques. I’ll need to devote a whole post just to my comments on that subject. I guess I approve of anything that helps people to develop and evolve higher. The tricky part is not to get stuck in possible traps or stuck at a "level" you're ready to go beyond.

[TraineeHuman]

OBEs provide direct, undeniable evidence to you that there is considerably more to you than your body, and much more to reality than the physical world. I see that as a very good step towards a person’s being ready for such things as spiritual enlightenment.

For that reason, I don’t mind so much – probably not at all -- if people use so-called “mind power” techniques, such as affirmations, to get themselves some stability with the OB experience, and to a point where the OB starts to become familiar. (They’ll probably then know that there’s nothing for them to fear. When I first started astral traveling I admit I was scared, but I always managed to see the silver-and-violet cord of light energy and I very quickly learnt it was so elastic I could make it contract smoothly and return me into my physical body in a second. That always reassured me more than enough. By the second night I was visiting other planets or moons every single night, where I actually attended various types of classes to satisfy my thirst for real knowledge. Soon it became: “Let’s see, that’s five planets away, so it must be Neptune.” I did experience some psychic attacks, but they were just good reminders to stay protected -- and not eat within 3 hours of bedtime, and get adequate rest. And I never got frightened enough by any of them to stop traveling, not for one night. So I’m thinking, what’s the big deal? Just stay protected, and know that there are beings in the 4D world who are deceptive – they put on a beautiful façade but they’re con artists. It takes all types – in that world as in this. But even in 4D you’ll soon start mixing more and more only with like-minded individuals. So all you delightful people who’ve posted on this thread should do fine. )

OK, so you’re using mechanical or self-programming means to get there. I would, however, point out that enlightenment means freedom from being controlled by anything mechanical, or by any kind of programming, including affirmations or hypnotic “commands” to oneself. Pure, complete, shining awareness is the opposite of the mechanical.

It’s surprising, when you look very carefully and nonjudgmentally and very honestly, how much of religion of whatever variety is actually just programming, including very large dollops of self-programming. But true liberation means getting fully beyond all that nonsense. I’m not saying anything new here.

From my preferred perspective, the use of affirmations and any type of programming, including any behavioral modification technique, is ultimately just a band-aid. Band-aids can be very useful, I must admit. If I cut my finger, a band-aid or two will usually protect it from infection and the risk of re-injury, while at the same time it will make it possible for me to carry out all the normal activities of my daily life. Without the band-aid I may not even be able to use my computer, or drive my car. That’s a big difference. But there comes a time when the sore has healed and the band-aids need to be put away. Psychologically speaking, there comes the time when the way to overcome a certain fear forever is to fully face it head-on, and thereby dissolve it out of existence.

In my next post I’ll do my best to respond further to Teradactyl’s questions.

[AwakeInADream]

If I may just ask a very basic question. I think that if I could relax my body more fully then I would 'be away', but when I do relax my body I tend to feel like stone.

Does feeling solid like stone (with vibration) mean I am relaxed or is this a sign of tension?

Or should I lose all awareness of my body?
(How should I feel exactly?)

You see the only success I've had is when I've been bordering on sleep, so maybe I just don't know how to relax enough?

[TraineeHuman]

... I think that if I could relax my body more fully then I would 'be away', but when I do relax my body I tend to feel like stone.

Does feeling solid like stone (with vibration) mean I am relaxed or is this a sign of tension?

Or should I lose all awareness of my body?
(How should I feel exactly?)

You see the only success I've had is when I've been bordering on sleep, so maybe I just don't know how to relax enough?

I guess it’s a little like watching the breath. I’ve found that watching the breath seems to be the most effective method of meditation for most Western people. What I like about it particularly is that people have to let their breath take control of them. This means that anything they may try to do “correctly” is automatically wrong because it has to be dropped in favor of the breath taking over. The breath has to do it, not you.

Similarly, you need to let go of the mind’s asking the question: “Am I doing astral travel correctly?” Or any other question, including: "Why does my body feel like stone?" You just let go to the experience. Don’t you do the relaxing. Let the relaxing do you. Trust it with your life. Really let go. Let it worry about the answers to all these questions. If the body feels like stone, you stay with "relaxed". Don't imagine that anything you feel, like your body being stone, is a problem. It's just ordinary. No, you don't completely switch off your awareness of your body. You leave it in the background, and don't make a big deal about it. Just let it be. You very probably won't die, so don't worry. When I started astral traveling, mostly I woke up during the night and would find I was already off somewhere. It sounds like that may be the best way for you too.

The human mind is an incredible thing. It can sometimes do the seemingly impossible rather effortlessly. Yes, your body does feel like stone if you’ve gone into 4D. Presumably, then, Awake, I would say you’re going into 4D for a moment and then your mind says: “That body feels too heavy,” so then you return to your body. But please don't think about the previous sentence while you'e doing your relaxing!

Uggh. My head feels all twisted up now. Got to switch the computer off and go visit the trees down the street.

[AwakeInADream]

Thank's TH!:) I feel like the only thing that is stopping me now, is just the smallest thing called 'letting go'. All of the other preparation is taken care of thank's to you!:) Next time it happens I will be brave....


----------------------------------------------------

Ah! Watching the breath, you see I used to worry about the breath thinking that if I focused on the breath then I wouldn't be able to leave my body because the breath constantly reminds you that the body is there. That when relaxed, the only motion you feel is the chest rising up and down. So that seems a little counter intuitive to me.

Still, what I'm doing isn't working so I will give watching the breath a try.

Perhaps I should think of the breath as a spiritual motion rather than a physical movement?

[TraineeHuman]

Ah! Watching the breath, you see I used to worry about the breath thinking that if I focused on the breath then I wouldn't be able to leave my body because the breath constantly reminds you that the body is there. That when relaxed, the only motion you feel is the chest rising up and down. So that seems a little counter intuitive to me.

Still, what I'm doing isn't working so I will give watching the breath a try.

Perhaps I should think of the breath as a spiritual motion rather than a physical movement?

I actually meant that relaxation is analogous to the way watching-the-breath meditation is based on letting the breath take over. :target:

But I find that if I meditate for long enough (no matter how grounded I am at the start) it certainly will disconnect most physical sensation and take me into 4D, 5D, 6D. So yes, you may like to try that too.

Our education system teaches us to think, but doing stuff like this is a matter of looking, not thinking. Even more primarily, it's a matter of just being, rather than looking. You need to decide to deliberately disengage from your thinking mind. You can do that.

[TraineeHuman]

...
can you perhaps go into detail about abilities in 6D+? and also how often is it necessary to repeat protective affirmations etc?

I can talk a little about how intentions work. Unfortunately I didn’t learn astral travel by using intention or affirmations, the way it seems most Western people do these days. So I may not have enough relevant experience to say much about that specific application of intention. But I hope the following helps anyway.

If you really want to make something happen, you need to hold a certain point of view still, strongly enough and long enough and often enough. Period. Holding something still is always done from the dimension above it. So, holding a particular point of view still is a very subtle, gentle, quiet thing. But it’s deceptively powerful. Most of psychotherapy (except that eventually there’s a more advanced stage) involves unearthing and identifying what the particular points of view are that make a person behave the way they do – especially the points of view that cause problems. But psychotherapy’s another story.

Let’s say you can hold a certain viewpoint still – such as, say, the viewpoint that it’s easy for you to learn, or master, astral travel in such a way that you’re able to see everything in the 4D world easily and often. (Always word it in present tense. Otherwise, the wording implies two conflicting messages: currently it’s not happening, and at some unspecified time in the future it will happen.) To reduce the impact of any other viewpoints lurking in your subconscious that might conflict with this viewpoint, you also consciously hold the intention still that it will be so.

That intention then automatically holds the concept, the thought, still that it’s going to be just as you say. I guess I’ll need to discuss the Law of Attraction at some point, but I think I’ll save that, and also the subject of beliefs, for the next post.

But do practice holding a point of view still. As I mentioned regarding intention in an earlier post, you should try to hold a point of view that’s for the highest good of all. It’s OK to hold the view that you’re a wonderful actor or salesperson or whatever, because you’re on a kind of level playing field with other actors / salespeople /etc. But try holding a point of view such as that you light up any room you enter, or you lift the mood of everyone around you, or you’re a valuable asset to your employer, and so on. And keep practicing holding it. It won’t work overnight, usually.

[AwakeInADream]

Hi TH!:) It seems I received your answer in post#266 within a dream before I'd even read it:


I've just woke up from the strangest dream in which I was practicing going OBE with great success, but on my second return to my body I opened my eyes and found myself awake in my bed. I wondered for a few seconds where I was because I had expected to be returned to the place I was practicing(in a cave) within the dream. So that confused me as to weather it was a real OBE or just a dream, but still it's a good sign that I am preparing my self on two plains of existence.

Another strange feature of this dream was that I was receiving telepathic instructions from someone I couldn't see(HS?), on how the mind worked in this place. One thing that I was shown was to take the texts of three different novels and view them side by side all at once, at which point my analytical mind jumped in saying 'That's ridiculous!, I don't have a photographic memory!', but there it was in the dream I had the ability to 'think' fully about three different things at once.

One image I saw, which might be symbolically relevant here was a very long antenna that went maybe five miles up, and I knew that the receiver at the top was broken. I had to face the frightening thought of climbing all the way up there in order to fix it(I guess I'd forgotten I could fly?).

I'm thinking now that I should perhaps watch the thoughtless mind, as if watching the breath, and that if I go with the flow then perhaps this higher functioning mind would just take over. It seems my dream is answering my questions in a similar way to you TraineeHuman!:biggrin:

[TraineeHuman]

... I was receiving telepathic instructions from someone I couldn't see(HS?), on how the mind worked in this place. One thing that I was shown was to take the texts of three different novels and view them side by side all at once, at which point my analytical mind jumped in saying 'That's ridiculous!, I don't have a photographic memory!', but there it was in the dream I had the ability to 'think' fully about three different things at once.
Yes, even in upper 4D you can listen to many conversations -- or read many different books -- simultaneously without missing a detail in any of them.


One image I saw, which might be symbolically relevant here was a very long antenna that went maybe five miles up, and I knew that the receiver at the top was broken. I had to face the frightening thought of climbing all the way up there in order to fix it(I guess I'd forgotten I could fly?).
If you want to know what that symbol/picture meant, I would suggest your HS was saying that going to a much higher dimension would be too hard a task for you right now. I guess your HS is saying you need to be patient on that score, although it seems you're ambitious enough to want to try. But of course, you've done very well as it is.

Interesting that you may have remotely read post #266 while you were away from your computer. In the first two years when I was astral traveling, I would frequently read a book in my bedroom without remembering in the morning that I had done so. It was a great way to study. And I found that if I wanted to deeply ponder some page of any book, all I needed to do was leave it open in my bedroom at the appropriate page.

[TraineeHuman]

A belief is a corrupted point of view, usually. Not always. But I say “corrupted” because many beliefs seem to get stated or held as if they were the one and only truth.

The difference is that when you quietly hold a point of view still you don’t “lay it on” anyone else. You appreciate there may be other, equally valid viewpoints you might have taken. But for your purposes, you have decided to filter everything through the assumption that your viewpoint is going to materialize and keep materializing within your own universe – your own universe being the whole universe, but as viewed by you.

Next, the Law of Attraction. Yes, such a law exists in many dimensions. But it gets modified by various other laws. Many of these laws can be summarized by saying that what you intend needs to be for the highest good of all. There’s a lot of room at the top, though. If everybody became excellent, everything in our lives would have better quality – like, we would all be wealthier together -- and everything would be less destructive to the environment and to disadvantaged people.

Imagine you send yourself a cheque for a billion dollars. Then you hold the viewpoint and the intention very, very still, with huge certainty that that amount of money is going to materialize in your bank account. The question is, have you considered all the consequences of what might happen if that were true? Have you considered how it might happen? What if the way it came true was that you were conscripted into the Mafia, or into the US Presidency (if there’s any huge difference)?

In addition, what happens with intentions is that there’s always a huge battle going on “above” regarding which intention will win out. Most likely your intention won’t materialize, if it strongly impacts others in a way that disadvantages. In that case, your intention will probably bend the outcome a little bit in the direction you wanted, because what materializes is the nett “weighted average”.

If your intention is to do with improving yourself, though, there won’t be much competition, if any. Maybe you have a parent or friend who doesn’t really approve of you learning to astral travel, even if that is likely to contribute to your spiritual evolution. But you’re very likely to hold your point of view regarding such questions with much greater determination than others do.

Sri Aurobindo said that a person should always aim to do extraordinarily well, and then they will do excellently; if they aim to be excellent, they will be very good; if they aim to be very good, they’ll do OK; if they just shoot for OK, they may well perform poorly.

One point to remember is that some of Bruce’s techniques would be to help you get over any inner resistance or feelings of unfamiliarity or fear. That’s a bit like certain techniques to help a person not be nervous when they do an exam. In this case it’s important to remember that the techniques will ultimately aim to help you to let go. That may sound like a contradiction if the techniques involve things like affirmations, but it isn’t really. It’s important, though, that people don’t forget that such techniques are a boat to get you to the point where you can let go easily. At that point the boat gets left behind, for the moment.

Teradactyl, if this isn’t what you wanted me to talk about, please feel do free to comment further about what you’re interested in or concerned about.

[Chester]

The following is a quote from Sri Aurobindo’s Letters on Yoga , pp. 397-398:

“What has to be done [with regard to the hostile forces] is to come to live in the Power that these things, these disturbing elements cannot penetrate or, if they penetrate, cannot disturb, and to be so purified and strengthened by it that there is in oneself no response to anything hostile.

“If there is a protecting envelopment, an inward purifying descent and, as a result, a settling of the higher consciousness in the inner being and finally, its substitution even in the most external outwardly active parts in place of the old ignorant consciousness, then the world and the hostile forces will no longer matter – for one’s own soul at least; for there is [also] a larger work not personal in which of course they will have to be dealt with …”

This sort of attainment of inner Power may at first sound way too ambitious, or too hard, to achieve. Yet it seems to me that Chester has worked out that achieving this Power is his eventual goal. He also seems to have worked out that he can realistically do it, and that he seems to be about halfway there. In some ways, no doubt, he is already there. (It’s also great to see somebody working with so much inspiration (9D) and insights (8D).)

Certainly he is sufficiently there that he presumably no longer fears – well, anything, practically. Certainly – if I understand correctly -- he does not have any problem regarding meeting negative beings or entities in his lucid dreams. If nothing else works, he knows how to wake himself up quickly and be quite out of the bad dream.

This, then, is the best answer I can come up with regarding anyone’s fears or feelings of unsafeness with regard to OB travel – apart from also protecting oneself and grounding oneself beforehand.

If Chester can do it, after the very tough childhood he went through, surely others of you can too, if you work on yourselves in somewhat a similar way to what Chester has done and continues to do. I don’t believe it’s necessary to develop yourself to the point where negative forces don’t make the least impression on you at all. But maybe you can learn to stay strong enough that negative forces don’t have the ability to upset you so much any more. For me, daily meditation has been and remains a powerful way to fill oneself up with positivity, so to speak, that is perhaps too strong to be overcome by the miseries of the jungle we know as civilization.

But really, I don’t care how you do it. Just get yourself into a very positive space (where you still have control of your faculties). From there, practice astral travel or OB travel, and the scary entities and beings will leave you alone. At least, that’s been my experience.

Hi and thanks for mentioning my journey - and thanks for the PMs to prompt a response.

I am in quite a new place these days. It is very hard to respond because the compliments of TH are... very complimentary - but setting aside false pride (if I can) I am striving to be the seed of the 10th dimension I believe has somehow been implanted in me - that's all I can say about that but I had a profound experience years ago related to the 10th dimension and finally, after waiting somewhere near 13 years, it is all starting to come together.

TH said something I need to address from my perspective. My childhood has extended up until just recently, so yes, I have had a difficult "childhood," but the way I see it, I created so much of it. And I have deep regrets because along the way i hurt lots of people. I don't mean physically... I mean this - it seems that most of us try and carve out a safe place for ourselves as we move through our lives. In this process, we develop friendships and when we do, we take risks that the person we are befriending remains the same in the way we feel comfortable with that person.

Well, I have changed radically throughout much of my life and so unless a friend has been able to adjust their expectations of me, they usually ended up disappointed. This is because I always did crazy, out of the box things and folks didn't understand.

But now, and as long as I remain totally drug and alcohol free, I have been able to reconcile myself. I also must adhere to rigorous honesty along with maintaining the best discernment possible as to what I should say, to whom and when.

And then I must vigilantly take the high road in every way possible. Especially guarding my anger as when it ramps up, I become the worst I can be. No one deserves that energy.

And I hope that I can be helpful for others as I have found only when I do so am I truly happy. So its selfish of me to be selfless (I call this my NancyV lesson - an honest one... haha).

TH helped me a ton. So have a ton of folks on this forum. I truly did all this through this forum. And there's more to go... far far more to go.

Three or so nights ago I had the most strangest dream sequence ever. I was in Colombia and had a 4 part dream where I literally woke up three different times, went back to sleep and the dream continued.

It was an "alien invasion" for real. Eerily similar to "the War of Worlds" with "my brother" Tom Cruise. In the first segment I was standing near a highway and was with a crowd and we were watching these ships and then one of them suddenly fired some weapon down on the street and Boomo... then I woke up, then I went back to sleep and soon found myself again dreaming but this time it was similar to when they "aliens" were coming down in lightening but it was the reverse - instead, human "souls" were being sucked up into alien vortexes. Then I woke up again. Then after going back to sleep once more, I saw the aliens were dying just like in that Cruise movie. Then again I awoke and then I went back to sleep once more and the last phase was after the knowing (or thinking) that all the aliens had died, suddenly one of their ships popped out from underneath the ground and escaped our atmosphere and then I awoke again. I recall wondering if the few who had escaped death might one day come back and come back stronger.

And I had no fear of this dream. No negative feelings. It was very vivid. I actually, strangely enjoyed it. I love when I have dreams events like this.

I know because of the peace I feel in my life these days, no aliens are ever going to "get me." Perhaps I am already gotten hahaha so what is there to get?

It really boils down to one thing and one thing only and that is - who/what is my creator. How I decide the answer to that is by deciding who/what I am. How I decide that is by a simple process of elimination as to simply this - what is acceptable.

What is acceptable and only acceptable to me is that I (and us all) am a perfect child of my creator, immortal and eternal. And for me to be that, I (and us all) must have a loving creator. I always see this creator as a mother/father union of love. I may just be dumb and stubborn but that's the only thing acceptable to me and so i just live my life under this assumption. I don't have a single enemy anymore, and the only one I ever really had was actually and only myself.

So when i said, if I can do it, anyone can - I meant that because in my earlier years I was a real scoundrel. If I can be redeemed, I guarantee you anyone can.

[TraineeHuman]

Chester, it seems to me your post speaks for itself. You sound to me like you're close to the realization and acceptance that you create (as each of us individually creates) everything that you experience. In a way, I would say that's when the fun begins. When I say "fun", I don't mean the word sarcastically, but I mean finding joy everywhere. You may not realize you're getting to that point, and no doubt it could take maybe some years.

We all have weak spots, such as you have your anger. Being honest about them and facing them is what gradually takes away their power, and that seems to be exactly what you're doing in a way we can all learn from.

And if your old friends can't keep up with you because you're changing so much, you of course find new friends at a "higher level", as you have.

[soleil]

I don’t know what his method of psychic protection is. Could you kindly describe it for us all briefly, perhaps? (Or maybe Wakytweaky or Libico may like to comment too?) The primary psychic protection I use is healing light. I use it everywhere, often.
hey guys, basically his book is a nice add on to learning to OBE i suppose. he goes into detail about common negative's and the book it and of itself is a "handbook" for protection etc. he suggests to learn to use your energy body. there is a nice intro to how to do this in his book 'mastering astral projection in 90 days' by robert bruce. he essentially says relax your body, and learn to activate (he recommends to use a pen or ruler to scratch or tickle with) your energy body all over starting with the bottom of your feet, tops of your feet, shins to knees, backs of legs, back/front of thighs, finger knuckles, fingers, hands, arms, all the way up front/back of your arms, etc. you can try your face too, but it gets confusing because you can start to throb or buzz in your head and it can mess up where you are focusing on.

the easiest way to LEARN to activate is to scratch for example the knuckle of your index finger where it is on the back of your hand. scratch the area in a small circle, and feel the feeling. the residual feeling is the energy body feeling you can learn to move it with your 'imagination'.

robert bruce says imagination and visualization is the SAME thing. so if you think you cant visualize, but you can IMAGINE a house on a hill, then you can visualize. period.

i have found that when i am more often tired at the end of the day i can at the very least do energy body awareness work while falling asleep.

ONCE you are pretty good at this, your body stops throbbing and vibrating. simply because it doesnt take that much energy/concentration/awareness anymore to do it. essentially its easier and therefore less noticeable. anyways, once this is easy for you, and you want to use this as a method of healing, you may visualize a 'sword/blowtorch/knife' anything to cut attachment, and or clean energy. if you can imagine ultra violet light you can do more healing, than other colours, like white, or pink etc. this colour also raises your and the negative attachments energy therefore eliminating the negative by healing it as well in a way.

there are more i'm sure, because i'm only HALF way into the book. :) i'll be glad to share more as i read them.

[soleil]

My intuition gives me a strong indication, though, T., that you already have quite a lot of healing ability unlocked. I guess if you just imagine and try to feel that healing (or loving) Light is all around you and is protecting you throughout whatever you’re doing next, that should work very well in your case. (All affirmations should be phrased in present tense, because 6D and higher operate in the Now – or beyond time, if you like.)

TH, yes 'healing' has propelled me to begin to learn reiki from my cousin this coming spring. she is a newly attuned reiki master, so its perfect timing if that is what i want to do.

also, i happened to receive a palmistry session as a gift, which (shocker) presented that i'm a "lifetime learner of the occult/healer/healing"...



the blindingly bright white being you saw was probably one of your guardian angels. It may also have been a powerful being from a higher dimension who may be acting as a guide. Either way, it’s a big compliment to you that the being is letting you see them in 4D. It’s also evidence that you’re seeing a being who would be coming from 6D or 7D though visible as bright light in 4D. (Incidentally, my understanding is that the bright white light (probably not as bright as the one you’ve seen) that most people see when they die is themselves.)

now that i think of your comment on this, and my previous experiences. i have been calling my GA at night to watch over us, as sometimes the three of us end up falling asleep in our big bed. man are they ever bright. its light a sunny day in the middle of a snowy winter day kind of bright! its really great to 'see' them this close. :)

[TraineeHuman]

...yes 'healing' has propelled me to begin to learn reiki from my cousin this coming spring. she is a newly attuned reiki master, so its perfect timing if that is what i want to do.

also, i happened to receive a palmistry session as a gift, which (shocker) presented that i'm a "lifetime learner of the occult/healer/healing"...


Reiki seems to attract the loveliest people, but it seems to diminish some people’s natural healing skill. That’s been my observation, and also independently it’s been that of a very powerful, very expert healer and psychic who was my teacher for a number of years. I’ll try to discuss this in more detail below. I appreciate that some people get offended when I’m candid in stating the truth as best I know it. But I’ve always done that on this Forum. Since I’ve been a psychic healer since childhood, I’d like to think there’s at least some substance to my observations here.

On the other hand, I can be more effective as a healer because I have learnt how to “read” anyone’s nervous system in a certain way. This involves being able to tap into their energy both at a physical level (3D) and at an emotional level (4D) and at a level of fixed ideas and picture memories and picture-“movies” (5D). It took years of practice to learn to do this, but mainly it’s just a matter of practicing – being a psychic sticky-beak, I guess. (Learning to "be one with" the other person.) It does help a huge amount if you’re good at meditating. I don’t know whether reiki teaches a person how to do that sort of “reading” of a person, though I suspect Robert Bruce’s exercises for astral travel may be applied to it, to a certain degree.

But one thing I quickly do before a psychic healing on someone physically present is to scan their body. You can do this too. Simply close your eyes and go from top to bottom of their body “looking” for dark areas. Wherever it’s dark, there’s a health problem of some sort. If you don’t seem to have such x-ray vision, keep practising and practising until you do. You can also feel all the dark areas by moving your hands about several inches above the skin. Any part of the body that feels cold, that’s where there’s a dark area. If the person has had an operation, usually there’ll be a line of darkness for years at the place where their body was cut. You can do this with your own body too, and find out where the weak areas are physically.

Next, a meter or so away from the client, I raise my hands and point them towards the client and just use intention and go into pure being as far as possible, rather than doing, except for that intention. This is quite holistic, whereas as far as I can gather systems like reiki aren’t so holistic.

What I actually see, without trying to, are one or more dark areas. They are the areas needing healing energy. I let my hands move a little if they want to, and I may move closer if my body seems drawn to do so. Sometimes the dark areas seem strange. Occasionally exactly half of the client’s energy field – the right side or the left side –seems to become mostly dark, for instance. Or I was healing a woman who had had an abortion and I didn’t know what the problem was. But it was like the bottom half of her body had gone so dark it seemed to somehow be sucking all the rest of her into it. All it took to heal that was five minutes of energy flowing wherever it wanted, while I let go and did my best to do nothing.

If I’m doing a remote healing, I still do the “x-ray scan” of the client’s body at the beginning, but then I get pictures like from snippets from movies, and symbols, all much like watching parts of the client’s dreams. From these it’s quite clear in a general way what the underlying psychological problem(s) is. But by my facing that the client becomes able to face it (maybe only after a few healing sessions), and hence to disappear it. Usually the physical problem(s) is a direct expression of the underlying psychological problem, such as “not standing fully on one’s feet”, “not taking steps forward”, “carrying too big a load on one’s back, or shoulders”, and so on.

I can also do psychological healing remotely, which isn’t so different from physical healing remotely. When I visited some members OB, and also in the attempted group exercise, as far as I know I contacted them at a 6D or 5D level, but they usually weren’t able at the time to be consciously aware of connecting with that part of themselves. I guess I learnt some new and different skills from these explorations, too.

[TraineeHuman]

What makes Source Source is its great creativity, right? Surely, then, we will be acting in a similar way to Source if we bring great creativity into everything we do and every situation we are in. And equally, if we don’t bring great creativity, then we won’t really be acting anything like Source would – or not fully, will we?

In this post I want to talk a little about what’s involved in and what exists in the highest dimensions. All my experience relevant to this tells me that it can all be understood purely in terms of creativity.

I guess many members would prefer to say it’s all about love, and not all about creativity. Well, love without understanding is often ineffective and helpless, and may even be counter-productive – as we’ve all experienced with at least one of our parents at some time. Incidentally, love where there’s any attachment at all certainly isn’t true love, even.

We tend to think of creativity as something somewhat confined to practitioners of the fine arts. But what I’m talking about is creativity applied to the most mundane situations, to literally everything, all the headaches. Psychologists who have studied creativity have determined that most or maybe all creativity is problem-solving. So, it means kind of magically transforming every problem into a beautiful butterfly, so to speak.

The great philosopher Wittgenstein claimed that the answer to every question (or problem) is implicit in the question itself. Well, I would say that isn’t quite correct. Rather, the meaning of the answer is contained in the meaning of any question.

I’m mentioning this because I would instead say that Einstein was correct when he said that it’s impossible to solve any problem at the level it was created.

You have to take things up at least one level. That’s what creativity always does, with a vengeance. It rises above every conflict. It cuts the Gordian knot of any problem by finding something much better than either side of the dispute.

And as any creative artist can tell you, creativity only occurs when you totally surrender anything that’s “you” to the process, to something much greater than yourself.

Also, creativity is something you never do to benefit yourself, but to benefit creativity itself. Certainly, anywhere in your everyday life where you apply creativity – such as being pro-active in your work or your relationships – you will usually benefit as a spin-off of you bringing benefit to others.

Why am I even mentioning all this in this thread? Because it’s quite possible to practice creativity as an exercise. Practice it masterfully enough and ultimately all the time, and I claim you will automatically find you are in the highest dimensions of all. For a description of the exercise plus some comments by Teradactyl, please see post #56 in the following thread http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread,php?38661-The-journey-to-discovering-my-true-origins&p=6246978&viewfull=1#post624697

[soleil]

i saw a great post by kiwielf from vivek's thread...


Heya Vivek - cool post :)

I used to be able to do it (OOBE) pretty easily as a teen. Have read Monroe's book but I learned more from one that may not be quite so well known today. Lobsang T. Rampa's "You Forever". (He covers the whole kaboodle: Astral Projection, clairvoyance, Akashic Record, Telepathy, the Etheric, Auras etc.

I used to lay down flat on my back (apparently is best if you're head is North and feet South-aligned - altho managed it without doing this), light clothing and arms hands down to your side. Concentrate on your breathing and relax with a bit of pre-med of your intention. It's like dropping off to sleep but staying awake - if that makes any sense. I became aware of a light floaty sensation - and then a "rush"... a "Zoooooom" with intense feeling of everything being electrified and incredible speed.

I'd liken it to the ENTERPRISE going into Warp. Where you think, you ARE ;). I could go through walls, fly, instantly be wherever I wanted and yet everything is eerily incandescent... A couple of times I got "stuck" coming back and my body felt like lead - like it wasn't connected - I guess some people would call that sleep paralysis. (Haven't seen a silver cord or looked at myself yet).

I could clearly hear voices far away and even set up an experiment with a friend, we both agreed whoever "got out" first would come visit the other.

Well I managed it first, had never actually visited his house but just by concentrating on him, I was there, in his room. He was reading a book and looked up - straight at me. Only lasted a few seconds tho. Next day I was able to tell him in detail what was in his room, what he was doing and looking straight at me. He freaked! He said it had felt like "something or someone was there".... (hmmm like seeing a ghost).

When I did get to actually visit him for real I was quite shocked to see his room exactly as I'd seen it.

One of the last times I achieved it, some years further on, the experience was really weird - scary in fact. As I was getting into the initial "floaty sensation", I felt what could be called hands lightly pressing on my body although I couldn't see anything. Something or someone (like the proverbial voice in my head) was saying "No, you don't want to do this right now... look over there..." I saw the most horrible looking "thing" I've seen and it reeked of pure evil. It looked like some kind of demon you'd see in a horror flick - very draconian/reptilian-looking with glowing eyes standing very near me in a full cloak holding some kind of staff or stick. Whoa,.. snapped out of it with a real fright and never really tried it again after that.

The last time it happened was spontaneous. I'd spent the whole of a rainy afternoon and very late night reading Queen of the Damned, third book in the "Interview with a Vampire" series. (Such a great read, couldn't put it down till I finished ;)

Anyways, went off to bed and within a short time, almost asleep, "something" was climbing in the bed with me. Today I'd put that down as an Incubus/sucubus experience! LOL. Felt VVVERery real. It wasn't scary but very sexual. (Gonna stop on the details of that one now).

All the other times - with the exception of the scary entity - were amazing little "journeys". (I could never seem to stay out more than about 20-30 mins at a time)

and also the book link from raf :flypig:.


There is a good free e-book about it out there. It´s called School Of Out-Of-The-Body travel, a practical guide.

Here´s the link:

http://www.obe4u.com/files/SOBT.pdf

It´s pretty practical indeed and should get you started easily.

Cheers,

Raf.

[TraineeHuman]

...[Robert Bruce] suggests to learn to use your energy body [including for psychic protection].
Everyone should learn to really master their energy body and the energy flows within it. It’s not optional. Why? Because the way the ego keeps anyone trapped and limited is through various complexes of emotions. And those emotions work through energy flows and energy structures in you.

Also, everyone should do it because this is one step towards reclaiming the greater powers we were meant to have naturally.

Robert Bruce’s exercises would seem to teach a person how to do this, at some basic level at least.


… robert bruce … essentially says relax your body, and learn to activate (he recommends to use a pen or ruler to scratch or tickle with) your energy body all over starting with the bottom of your feet, tops of your feet, shins to knees, backs of legs, back/front of thighs, finger knuckles, fingers, hands, arms, all the way up front/back of your arms, etc. you can try your face too, but it gets confusing because you can start to throb or buzz in your head and it can mess up where you are focusing on.
This is so easy, but it explains a few puzzles, at least for me. One puzzle has been that my experience of the vibrations hasn’t been as a gate to astral travel, except on rare occasions. Instead, in some periods of my life it’s been a recharge of my body when I hadn’t had enough sleep. What I’ve experienced has been that the vibrations would come and refresh my body in about five minutes, by traveling through it, mainly from the feet to the head. And that after such a recharge, I would feel very refreshed and need no further sleep for a day, even if I had had no sleep at all the previous night. It would be interesting to know whether people such as David Wynn Miller – who apparently never sleeps – and Dawn – who didn’t sleep for nine years – were using this, or some subtle variation of it, perhaps unknowingly, as their means of staying awake.

Another puzzle was when I used to be married and my wife would sometimes get electric shocks just from touching me, or from my touching her. She seemed to experience the kind of shock you get from, say, 240 volts, only milder.

I eventually worked out that she only got the shocks during those periods when she felt depressed or otherwise really down. My understanding is that you can get in touch with your energy body and get the energy to flow more strongly, and everyone should do so. But there are also what some call “energy leaks”, and nearly everyone has them. Getting stuck in something like depression is an example of a really huge hole in the dike. Any kind of resistance – such as Teradactyl feeling perhaps very tired at the end of a day’s work—is also what I regard as a minor energy leak for that day. So I find it very interesting that Teradactyl says that Bruce’s exercise of scratching or tickling one’s energy body (and physical body too, I take it?) seems to suffice to regain what was lost through an energy leak such as the tiredness.

[TraineeHuman]

The physical world is more polarised than the 4D world. But the level of energy is stronger in 4D than 3D, so to speak. That’s why in 4D, where we still see colors, the colors are brighter. In fact, everything sensual feels more strongly so in 4D – you could say it feels “more real”. But it is necessary for you to be used to having that higher level of “physical” energy, or life-energy or ch’i or prajna or whatever you may call it, if you want to experience the 4D world (more easily).

There are many practices which seem to work to keep your energy level raised. What’s important here is that you use at least one of them. Many people seem to need to keep practicing these regularly for many years. It looks like Robert Bruce’s exercises are enough, if you keep practicing. There is a huge variety of others. Hatha yoga, aikido, t’ai chi, q’i gong, bodywork of many different kinds, maybe even just taking energy in from the sun long enough every day, if you know how to do it. But many people engaged in practicing sitting meditation find they also need to engage in some more direct way of energizing the physical body. You need to spend time just becoming aware of the flow of energy, and emotions, through your body, and of how much and how often that flow influences your daily life.

Our physical body is the part of us that lives in the physical world. But none of us lives only in the physical world. We use our 4D emotions and feelings and our 5D thoughts to make sense of it and experience it. Actually, we all also use higher dimensional parts, as I’ve recently been pointing out. For example, we all use and acquire points of view, which are 7D. You could say that every higher dimension has a physical part – each higher dimension makes our experience of the physical world richer, and adds meaning to it. But if we operate at a higher level of plain old physical energy, then not all of that energy will get used up just to keep our body functioning. There’ll be more energy left over for the higher dimensional parts of ourselves to manifest in the physical.

[TraineeHuman]

... robert bruce... essentially says relax your body, and learn to activate (he recommends to use a pen or ruler to scratch or tickle with) your energy body all over starting with the bottom of your feet, tops of your feet, shins to knees, backs of legs, back/front of thighs, finger knuckles, fingers, hands, arms, all the way up front/back of your arms, etc....

“Meditation means being relaxed and aware at the same time (over some continuous period).” That’s a common definition of meditation, and I believe it’s quite accurate (well, maybe “still” would be better than “relaxed”). Notice how this is some sort of parallel of the basic instruction for astral travel of:

“Relax your body, but stay (physically) awake.”

But is it so easy to be aware?

Well, I would suggest most people are very good at concentrating – which at least gives us something to work from. We are all taught how to concentrate well by the education system.

In my case I was very bad at learning it in early high school. I would be too busy daydreaming or going off onto more interesting tangents. For the first two years of high school I upfront refused to do any homework. That was at a time when that simply wasn’t done, at least not where I went to school. I believe what I disliked about homework the most was that it always involved a seemingly meaningless game of memorizing or conceptualizing.

Unfortunately, in retrospect I’m pretty sure I gave at least one teacher a bad constant headache. Today I can see that an underlying purpose of homework was to develop students’ concentration skills. But at thirteen I had a strong feeling there was something better. Today I’d prefer to talk of “one-pointedness” instead of “concentration”. But that still doesn’t guarantee you the “something better” which is awareness.

Avalonians sometimes use the term “awake” to mean sociopolitically aware. For instance, if a person is awake about bank bailouts, or a thousand other things. That means that the person can see more than the outer appearance, and get to the heart of the reality.

But what does “aware” mean in relation to energy fields and energy flows? Buhlmann and others advise to say: “Awareness now!” or “Clarity now!” to turn on your 4D vision and feeling. But that presupposes you already know what awareness and clarity are in this situation, that you have already mastered them.

Meditation – particularly the Zen style, or the watching the breath practice – does develop a person’s awareness in appropriate ways. And this, folks, is why I suggest meditation is probably advisable for developing your ability to travel or be OB, or to do it better, and better.

What meditation gradually does is reveal the true self (or the no-self) by giving you (or “you”) the experience of separating it – from the mind, body, and personal history. Underlying all these is the pure “I”, which is simply full awareness itself.

Before you get to a full experience of that deepest “I”, though, you’ll get some real sense at least of an “I” that you can distinguish from the purely physical “I”, i.e. the body.

It’s not such a big step to then eventually experience how your consciousness (which is your awareness and will merged into one) can move down into your physical body; but equally it can also move up into various higher levels, which include the astral.

May I add one small tip, which might perhaps be useful to AwakeInADream. Any time you come up with a blank, you’re trying to use your mind beyond the limits where it can go. It’s a signal that you need to get more experience – which implies turning off the mind just for the short term. Any time you get a blank, simply let go of the mind.

[Deneon]

Wow, I am still learning so much by reading this thread. Thank you all for your contributions. I just want to say a couple of things:


Ah! Watching the breath, you see I used to worry about the breath thinking that if I focused on the breath then I wouldn't be able to leave my body because the breath constantly reminds you that the body is there. That when relaxed, the only motion you feel is the chest rising up and down. So that seems a little counter intuitive to me.

I can really relate to this. In the book by Robert Bruce he recommends a technique called belly breathing, where you feel your chest (or belly, I suppose) move up and down with each breath you take. I also see this as focusing on your physical body, which automatically suggests to me that you will have lots of trouble getting out of it.


I’ll say more below relating to the importance of having great detachment. Let me pause to explain now, though, that detachment doesn’t really have anything to do with a lack of involvement. The greater a person’s detachment, the more intensely they are able to let themselves be involved and the more deeply they are able to care about others and about the situation.

You made the above statement in your 'The journey to discovering my true origins' thread. I struggled with this issue, and I still do. I try not to let some things get to me, but I don't want to get to a point where I don't care about it. I know the goal is not to not care about anything. I don't want to get mad at something or someone, but I don't want to have a 'nothing matters to me' attitude. I don't want to say 'I don't give a ****'. It's difficult to put into words what I mean exactly (English isn't my first language). I sometimes find it difficult to balance. This is going a lot better lately. I have no idea if any of this makes sense, or if this is even what you meant when you wrote that. When I read it I just thought that was exactly what I have been struggling with.

Something that is related to this but slightly different: I don't (want to) argue with people anymore. Almost any topic other people want to argue about are insignificant in the great scheme of things. But, I don't want people to walk over me of take advantage of me, just because (in their view) I do not want to argue. I guess you have to balance it, like everything else. I tend to polarize everything (everything or nothing, no gray areas), which makes balancing things a bit hard...



This is so easy, but it explains a few puzzles, at least for me. One puzzle has been that my experience of the vibrations hasn’t been as a gate to astral travel, except on rare occasions. Instead, in some periods of my life it’s been a recharge of my body when I hadn’t had enough sleep.

The night before last I did not get any sleep. Not by choice, but because of some exercises I did that night, my body felt very energized, almost electrified, that I just couldn't get any sleep. I have written about this before. Anyway, I wasn't tired at all the next day, which I found.. interesting.


Everyone should learn to really master their energy body and the energy flows within it. It’s not optional. Why? Because the way the ego keeps anyone trapped and limited is through various complexes of emotions. And those emotions work through energy flows and energy structures in you.
Also, everyone should do it because this is one step towards reclaiming the greater powers we were meant to have naturally.

This is exactly what I have been doing. I haven't really been focusing on going OBE right now, but more on feeling and developing and my energy body. Also I am trying to meditate regularly, something that I had never done until a few weeks ago. I find I can sometimes really quickly feel energy flow through me, while at other times I just feel it in my hands and legs. The last couple of days I have been feeling energy in my head. I can feel it very strongly, even when I'm not mediating. Throughout my day at work when I focus on the energies and just unfocus my eyes a little I feel them very strongly. I do this all day long just for fun, because I like how it feels :)

I seem to be feeling it more easily at work. This is a very stressful time at work. A lot of my colleagues are worrying about our future, because they are closing my branch at the end of this year. At one point I felt this giant wave of energy in me, without trying anything. That's when I started to wonder: Am I feeling my own energy body, or am I picking up other people's energies? And how do I differentiate between the two?

Also I've been very surprised at how many people I know have had experiences like this. I asked someone flat out if he had ever had an OBE (because he has some spiritual beliefs) and he flat out told me he did. He described it in detail, vibrations and everything. Someone else told me she has been seeing and feeling things forever. She also told me she felt the moment we met (2 years ago) that I was sensitive to these things as well. She was quite amused saying to herself 'Oh he doesn't know yet'. Of course, this is easy for her to say after I have told her about everything, but still :)

I have one question: What do I do now? I am going to keep meditating, keep feeling my energy body. Should I read about healing? Keep trying OBE? Reading other people's energies? Train other psychic abilities?

I probably know there is no next logical step, but I want to focus on something specific instead of just trying anything without a clear goal in mind. I would welcome any advice.

[Libico]

I’ve been out of the loop on this thread for the past 2 weeks or so due to personal issues and thought I’d chime in with a few comments and questions.

Ever since my previous post where I talked about a dream experience that lead to my lucidity which lead to an experience (I’m still not sure how to term this – I’ve had a few OBEs that originated from my waking state and it seems very similar, but yet not the same so possibly taking place in 5D), I’ve been having much more vivid dreams. I’ve found that I start to unconsciously live out scenarios in my dreams that have happened in the past in my life, or that I’ve always dreaded – in these cases I live out these scenarios and am happy to report that I face these situations in a way that would be the ‘ideal” way I could act. We’ve all had situations both significant and insignificant where we wish we had acted differently - with me it happens with giving money to someone asking where my first/automatic reaction is to refuse and I instantly regret it… I’ve had a few times recently where I’ve even backtracked a bit to correct myself and felt happy over the fact that I could stop and correct myself instead of letting myself go with “next time I’ll do it”. In these dream states I found I was more comfortably able to explore these scenarios and correct past scenarios and ones which I always dreaded would happen. It’s been quite liberating.

I’d like to share an experience I had last night as well; after playing out a scenario in which I took a highly regarded colleague and close friend for granted which in turn caused everyone to ostracize me – I took the defensive stance momentarily until I went and wholeheartedly apologized by acknowledging the error of my ways granting me closure and lucidity. I immediately requested to go OBE, felt strong vibrations for several seconds while everything faded to black. I can’t recall many of the details of this, but one interesting note was that right after I received lucidity (prior to going OBE) I felt “attacked” by the sharp pains in my back, and also felt the manifestation of the visual entity I’ve always associated with that (page 12, post #238 in this thread). As I went OBE I decided to ask my HS two questions:

1. What is the source of these pains and how can I stop them from recurring – what is this entity that has been attacking me for all these years? TH mentioned in an earlier post that it was likely due to cording which I intuitively believe to be true (indeed I’ve have much more control over them since that revelation), but my mind still associates it with this entity.

2. I don’t feel like I am progressing as well as I would like – what can I do to advance myself spiritually at a faster pace?

In this experience I ran a gauntlet being faced with tests of various sorts along the way; both moral and philosophical – I can’t recall any specifics at the moment but I remember thoroughly enjoying the experience. Eventually I reached the conclusion which was a sort of computer terminal which I knew to be a connection to my HS who could answer my questions. I only received an answer to my first question (although thinking now it could be an answer to both), and the answer was something like this “It is not for me to know now – it would be terribly dangerous for me to know at this stage”. I woke up pondering over this answer and it’s been with my all day. I believe the message was telling me that at this point in time I’ve not yet reached a level of spiritual maturity to “open that door” and truly get to the bottom of this – I don’t believe the message was a warning, but more a message to let it lie for now and focus on my advancement as this is something to be tackled later.

It was a very interesting experience – lately I’ve had OBEs exclusively originating from lucid dream sequences and not originating from the waking state.

One thing I’d like to ask for some advice on is beginning to meditate. I’ve always had difficulty with this and have read and tried out many techniques with nothing ever really seeming to work for me. The only time I’ve ever felt anything aside from seeing blackness and with my thoughts running amok has been during the exercise that TH organized – I had a few minutes of feeling waves of light in the sea of darkness and it was exhilarating. More and more I have the feeling that meditating is an important stepping stone in my advancement and I thought I’d ask here for some advice with this. My main issue is that I can’t turn off or let go of my mind no matter what I seem to try.

Thanks for the link to the PDF that Raf posted tetradactyl – I glanced through the TOC and it looks great! Bookmarked for later

[TraineeHuman]

One thing I'd like to say in response to Deneon and Libico is that obviously with both of you and probably everyone who has posted on this thread, your "soul" has a strong commitment to development, and because of that you don't really need to worry. I would see "the soul" as mostly the 7D and 6D parts of a person. But anyway, it's higher -- deeper inside --than all your conditioning and emotions and mental blocks, whatever they might be, as these are 4D and 5D. The mere fact that the "soul" has broken through these into your attention is enough. It can't be stopped. It's like a "call" that you've heard and now you know you've heard it. It links you to higher kinds of true intelligence inside you.

I'll make some comments in response to Libico's and Deneon's posts shortly. But here's something I once wrote about how to meditate.

All forms of meditation take everything away except you. They’re kind of like a scientific experiment, in that sense. However, meditation isn’t dry or mechanical, either.

You really will get more out of every time you meditate if you understand what meditation is about is:
just you watching you.

And when I say “you,” I mean you at your most natural. Just “pure” you. A state with no problems. The “I” behind the “me.”

There’s a strange and fascinating twist, though. Meditation, of any form, is designed in such a way that all the while you keep letting go of all memory of what you were looking at, even one second ago. You keep watching and forgetting. But the watching – the alertness – is vital. So, equally, is the letting go and instant forgetting. Any time you manage to do both of these together: “You’ve got it!” as Henry Higgins might say.

You’ll notice there’s something amazingly loose and easy about that forgetting. It really is in many ways the opposite of keeping yourself on a tight leash. OK, you do it while (probably) sitting quietly, and just paying attention. But inside of you, you completely let yourself run wild. At least, in whatever sense it’s possible to “run wild” when you’re every second dropping and forgetting all thought or emotion.

J. Krishnamurti said ultimately much the same thing in a different way. He said that true meditation does not rigidly follow a path, a discipline, or a method set down by others. Also, that it must not involve discipline, effort, or force. So, forget about trying to do it the “right” way. The more you’ve forgotten everything like that, during meditation, while still being very wide awake and present, the deeper you’ve gone.

Common mistakes

The biggest mistake I have seen in “experienced” meditators is that some of them become experienced in using “meditation” to make themselves duller. We have seen that in meditation one of the major instructions is to not hang on to any thoughts (or memories). But that doesn’t mean shutting down the flow of your natural life-energy and consciousness. Incidentally, your life-energy and consciousness are one and the same as your sexual energy and consciousness – except that in meditation they operate at a subtler and finer and gentler level. So your body doesn’t get sexually aroused. On the other hand, in meditation you do get more and more in contact with the energy and consciousness of genuine love and of gentleness and sensitivity.

The second biggest mistake is a fear or unwillingness to let go; a desire to control what’s going on. You simply drop that.

The other point I must make is that it’s important to make use of the benefits of meditation. Meditation is only useful to you to the extent that it makes you more intelligent, in the true sense of “intelligence.” Yes, it does greatly lessen the intensity of any pain or hurt or fear you have been aware of that day. But you also need to use the greater positivity you gain from meditation to face all the painful things – the things that press your buttons – head-on. That’s something that needs to be done outside of the meditation session. During an actual meditation session, the aim is to completely “switch off” from those painful things. To return to your origin, your source, that was there before the world ever was. No problems.

I should add, though, that there is a constant flow of (for these purposes) rubbish thoughts that doesn't stop. You kind of just learn to turn the volume down with regard to these, or even to ignore them fully.

One further point. If you want to become a professional tennis player, you need to practise, practise, and then practise. Where I’ve said above that discipline and effort aren’t relevant, please don’t jump to the conclusion that you can miss out on daily practice.

Watching the breath

Each form of meditation gives you some instruction to follow. Usually, that instruction is given to you with the understanding that it’s merely a boat to get you across “the river” of your pain-body’s resistance. And that once you get to the “other side of the river,” you don’t need the boat.

In meditation based on watching the breath, that “boat” is the action of watching your breath in a certain way, normally accompanied by something that’s a reminder to let go. To let go of everything, and just allow everything to be exactly as it is. In my experience, for many people watching the breath seems to be the quickest way to learn how to meditate. I have also found that when they learn this method, people don’t seem to veer off into spaces which they will then need to get through before they seem to reach the destination.

Some people learn how to do this form of meditation properly within days, and quite a few within weeks of daily practise. You know when you’ve started really reaching the right place with a vengeance when you start encountering intense joy or love. Soon after, you’ll find that in addition you’ll reach a space of very pleasant peace. You could call that “presence” if you like, because it’s so satisfying and fulfilling, it sure isn’t “nothing”. I guess it’s no-thing, i.e., it’s formless.

Watching the breath – the exercise

Find a quiet place where you won’t be disturbed. It should be indoors, or at least have walls on all sides around you.
Sit in a chair, or at least with your back straight and each arm resting on your upper legs. Very gently close your eyelids.
Pay attention to your breathing. Breathe from your abdomen.

Whenever your body starts to breathe in, silently say “Peace” (or: “Let it be”) to yourself. When it starts to breathe out – and not before --, silently say the same. As you do so, be aware of having the attitude that you’re ever so gently letting go of whatever thoughts come up in your mind.
Keep doing this until you no longer notice your mind silently “speaking” thoughts. At that point, stop saying “Peace” (or “Let it be”).

But if you start to notice any thoughts again, go back to saying “Peace” (or “Let it be”) with each inbreath and outbreath, until they disappear.

When you’re finished, give yourself SEVERAL MINUTES to come out of that trance-like state slowly. Begin by wiggling all your fingers and toes, with the eyes still shut.
When you are ready, open the eyes, but still keep wiggling. Gradually make your body movements bigger. Begin to move your wrists, then your lower arms, and your ankles, then lower legs. As you do, let your eyes and your intuition “register” everything around you, “feeling” its solidity almost as if you were touching it.
Without moving your behind, stretch your arms and legs, and swing them about a little. Finally, move your entire body about, including lifting your behind off the chair.

Warning: At first, don’t combine watching the breath with feeling the aliveness. Equally, it’s OK to practise feeling the aliveness outdoors, but not watching the breath. The reasons are “technical”. I’m certainly not the only practitioner who warns strictly against doing certain forms of meditation outdoors. Most types of traditional movement meditation, such as t’ai chi, qi gong, and hatha yoga are fine. So is feeling the aliveness, and being at one with Nature.

Other forms of meditation

The other forms of meditation generally substitute something else for watching the breath. This can be a mantra, for example (a word or phrase like “Om” or “peace”). In most cases, it is something that you keep repeating – until you get to a space where you stop paying so much attention to your thoughts. The great thing about the watching-the-breath meditation is as follows. Firstly, all the other forms of meditation also require you to keep “letting everything be exactly as it is,” or to keep letting go of thoughts and feelings. Secondly, we are already aware of our breathing all the time anyway. So, watching-the breath meditation is the form that requires the most minimal effort.
You’re doing meditation of any kind the ideal way once it starts being “one” with you, or kind of “taking you over.” For instance, if you are doing a movement form of meditation such as t’ai chi, it’s when the energy of the exercises seems to be moving you rather than you. Or when everything physically around you seems to be saying the mantra, if you are doing a mantra meditation. It feels like everything seems to be saying the mantra because you have entered a space of sufficient unity that for you, everything has become the same. And so on.


Creative visualization and affirmations

Some people use the word “meditation” to refer to creative visualization – or self-hypnosis, or self-reprogramming. Certainly, this has considerable similarity to meditation. It can be used to lessen the power your ego has over you. And surely, that’s not a bad thing. Nevertheless, creative visualization needs to be done twice a week in order to work. And I claim it does fail to actually remove any of the ego.

The procedure is very similar to that for the watching-the–breath meditation as described above. Indeed, you can follow exactly the same procedure as above and go into meditation for several minutes. At that point, you can visualize yourself being successful or very likeable or whatever it is that you are seeking. You can do so by using your imagination to run a brief “film” in your mind picturing yourself being successful/ etc. If you aren’t able to run such a “film,” it helps to picture a scene of a naturally beautiful spot. You then repeat one or several phrases about yourself, in the present tense, saying that you have already achieved that goal. E.g.: “At my job interview I am calm, confident and make a strong connection with every member of the panel.”

After doing this for a few minutes, you can either return to meditation or else slowly come out of the session as you do when coming out of a meditation session.


Remember

If you’re a beginner at meditation, it can take days or weeks or much, much longer before you start accessing any bliss or oneness, even one drop of these. But that’s not a reason to give up practicing every day. Personally, I don’t miss a day because almost every time I meditate I get to drink in some ecstatic pure love and peace. If you keep at it, those sorts of wonderful experiences do happen for many people.

[Chester]

Is it possible that a 'Guru' with no power, can obtain power simply from his followers belief that he has supernatural powers?

That what starts out as a bluff can then turn into reality?

The expression 'fake it till you make it' comes to mind...

And in this way, a false religion could be started, and that a Demon could obtain God-like powers from the belief of his followers that he is the 'true' God?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that we should all get together on this thread, and 'intend' something cool into existence.
I've suggested stuff like this before, but nobody takes the idea up.:(

So what do you say? What shall we create?

* Note * We should think of something unusual and unique to lessen the chances of some other group 'un-intending' our intentions, something observable world wide, and easy to start off with. Any suggestions?

For me, when I have done this, it has always backfired.

What I discovered true for me was that no matter how virtuous my intentions or well meaning my energetic thrust... when I cast my will such as a magician (white or black), the boomerang is never what I expected and almost always has been an negative surprise. That is why I set aside intentional magic over 12 years ago.

And make sure you don't conclude I am against intentional magic - not at all... I am simply stating that I am not good at coming up with the right/best intentions. This is one of the reasons I think I am essentially a psychopath that simply made up his mind to be in right/positive relationship with all and the All.

I have found it far better (for me) to rely on the will of the kosmos. I call this type of magic, "clear magic" as it is essentially a combination of the desire of my deepest heart and the higher will that seems to invisibly guide us through these strange, dis-empowered shadow realms.

[TraineeHuman]

Is it possible that a 'Guru' with no power, can obtain power simply from his followers belief that he has supernatural powers?

That what starts out as a bluff can then turn into reality?

The expression 'fake it till you make it' comes to mind...

And in this way, a false religion could be started, and that a Demon could obtain God-like powers from the belief of his followers that he is the 'true' God?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that we should all get together on this thread, and 'intend' something cool into existence.
I've suggested stuff like this before, but nobody takes the idea up.:(

So what do you say? What shall we create?

* Note * We should think of something unusual and unique to lessen the chances of some other group 'un-intending' our intentions, something observable world wide, and easy to start off with. Any suggestions?

For me, when I have done this, it has always backfired. What I discovered true for me was that no matter how virtuous my intentions or well meaning my energetic thrust... when I cast my will such as a magician (white or black), boomerang is never what I expected and almost always has been an negative surprise. That is why i set aside intentional magic over 12 years ago.

I have found it far better to rely on the will of the kosmos. I call this type of magic, "clear magic" as it is essentially a combination of the desire of my deepest heart and the higher will that seems to invisibly guide us through these strange, dis-empowered shadow realms.

Hi Chester,
I agree that it's very important to leave many details up to "the will of the kosmos". That was why I suggested people might send healing energy rather than just send intention; and I suggested they didn't need to be specific about what journalist(s) to send it to, but just intend it for those journalists -- whoever they may be -- with the realistic opportunity to disclose something crucial to the mainstream public. I agree we should let a higher intelligence flow through us. Ideally we should just be "vessels" (I dare not use the word "channels" because it's been so ridiculously used by many phoneys). I've also explained that the Law of Attraction doesn't work unless various other laws are followed -- many of which amount to the requirement that the intention has to be for the highest good of all involved, or of all humanity or all the planet. I've also explained a little about how intentions, being 6D, are subservient to everything in higher Ds.

By the way, as a qualified psychologist I don't believe there are such things as "psychopaths", only psychopathic behavior -- which anyone is capable of doing, and does, at times. I do know that there exist malevolent Gods, but they have volunteered to play the black role for a while and then at a certain time "retire" from being malevolent. The game was set up from the beginning so that the benevolent Gods (all of whom are or were human, by the way) would win the struggle completely in the long run. I'm very sad for you that you got caught up into direct slavery to the malevolents. But at a deeper "soul" level you agreed in advance to do this, and in the long run -- maybe future lifetimes but hopefully in this one as well -- your recovery from that destruction of yourself will make you awfully strong. And please, don't run yourself down. Like yourself. You seem quite likeable to me. None of us is perfect.

Regards, TH

[Chester]

Is it possible that a 'Guru' with no power, can obtain power simply from his followers belief that he has supernatural powers?

That what starts out as a bluff can then turn into reality?

The expression 'fake it till you make it' comes to mind...

And in this way, a false religion could be started, and that a Demon could obtain God-like powers from the belief of his followers that he is the 'true' God?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that we should all get together on this thread, and 'intend' something cool into existence.
I've suggested stuff like this before, but nobody takes the idea up.:(

So what do you say? What shall we create?

* Note * We should think of something unusual and unique to lessen the chances of some other group 'un-intending' our intentions, something observable world wide, and easy to start off with. Any suggestions?

For me, when I have done this, it has always backfired. What I discovered true for me was that no matter how virtuous my intentions or well meaning my energetic thrust... when I cast my will such as a magician (white or black), boomerang is never what I expected and almost always has been an negative surprise. That is why i set aside intentional magic over 12 years ago.

I have found it far better to rely on the will of the kosmos. I call this type of magic, "clear magic" as it is essentially a combination of the desire of my deepest heart and the higher will that seems to invisibly guide us through these strange, dis-empowered shadow realms.

Hi Chester,
I agree that it's very important to leave many details up to "the will of the kosmos". That was why I suggested people might send healing energy rather than just send intention; and I suggested they didn't need to be specific about what journalist(s) to send it to, but just intend it for those journalists -- whoever they may be -- with the realistic opportunity to disclose something crucial to the mainstream public. I agree we should let a higher intelligence flow through us. Ideally we should just be "vessels" (I dare not use the word "channels" because it's been so ridiculously used by many phoneys). I've also explained that the Law of Attraction doesn't work unless various other laws are followed -- many of which amount to the requirement that the intention has to be for the highest good of all involved, or of all humanity or all the planet. I've also explained a little about how intentions, being 6D, are subservient to everything in higher Ds.

By the way, as a qualified psychologist I don't believe there are such things as "psychopaths", only psychopathic behavior -- which anyone is capable of doing, and does, at times. I do know that there exist malevolent Gods, but they have volunteered to play the black role for a while and then at a certain time "retire" from being malevolent. The game was set up from the beginning so that the benevolent Gods (all of whom are or were human, by the way) would win the struggle completely in the long run. I'm very sad for you that you got caught up into direct slavery to the malevolents. But at a deeper "soul" level you agreed in advance to do this, and in the long run -- maybe future lifetimes but hopefully in this one as well -- your recovery from that destruction of yourself will make you awfully strong. And please, don't run yourself down. Like yourself. You seem quite likeable to me. None of us is perfect.

Regards, TH

Thanks TH - I am sadly one of those people that has to learn everything on my own. I am 55 and I am just now starting to get what you are saying in your last post. But it seems true (at least for me) that these laws seem to require an adherence to them all for everything to click smoothly. But, I have been finding out lately through some of the most difficult times, by having faith in these laws and then letting things unfold naturally allows me to experience what used to seem like the miraculous and now seems to be only and simply - basic metaphysics.

I love you lots, man... and also AwakeInADream too because he really seems to be working real hard on all these things and I admire that dedication. Also, forgive me I am not stating more names, but you have attracted several awesome posters here and I have been really enjoying the posts, the dialogue and the general great feeling of this thread.

I think the Mods should consider to make this thread a Sticky.

[TraineeHuman]

I’ll say more below relating to the importance of having great detachment. Let me pause to explain now, though, that detachment doesn’t really have anything to do with a lack of involvement. The greater a person’s detachment, the more intensely they are able to let themselves be involved and the more deeply they are able to care about others and about the situation.

You made the above statement in your 'The journey to discovering my true origins' thread. I struggled with this issue, and I still do. I try not to let some things get to me, but I don't want to get to a point where I don't care about it. I know the goal is not to not care about anything. I don't want to get mad at something or someone, but I don't want to have a 'nothing matters to me' attitude. I don't want to say 'I don't give a ****'. It's difficult to put into words what I mean exactly (English isn't my first language). I sometimes find it difficult to balance. This is going a lot better lately. I have no idea if any of this makes sense, or if this is even what you meant when you wrote that. When I read it I just thought that was exactly what I have been struggling with.
If that's exactly what you're struggling with, Deneon, then you certainly must be doing quite a few things right. Impressive!


Something that is related to this but slightly different: I don't (want to) argue with people anymore. Almost any topic other people want to argue about are insignificant in the great scheme of things. But, I don't want people to walk over me of take advantage of me, just because (in their view) I do not want to argue. I guess you have to balance it, like everything else. I tend to polarize everything (everything or nothing, no gray areas), which makes balancing things a bit hard...
One problem relating to detachment is that, like proper meditation, it's a lost art in this culture and society. Today I find most people don't appreciate that being detached doesn't mean or imply a lack of commitment or even a lack of involvement, at all. I find that many people from indigenous cultures and traditional Asian cultures seem to look up to anyone who has some detachment, because their culture has included an understanding of its great value. But not modern Western culture. If someone wants to take advantage of you, you may have to put on a small "tough guy" act for their benefit. Many people who make much progress in developing their awareness need to deliberately mask the smiles their face will naturally make. That's because there are others who will believe they're free to take advantage because you'll be too generous to insist on your rights.


... I am trying to meditate regularly, something that I had never done until a few weeks ago. I find I can sometimes really quickly feel energy flow through me, while at other times I just feel it in my hands and legs. The last couple of days I have been feeling energy in my head. I can feel it very strongly, even when I'm not meditating. Throughout my day at work when I focus on the energies and just unfocus my eyes a little I feel them very strongly. I do this all day long just for fun, because I like how it feels :)

I seem to be feeling it more easily at work. This is a very stressful time at work. A lot of my colleagues are worrying about our future, because they are closing my branch at the end of this year. At one point I felt this giant wave of energy in me, without trying anything. That's when I started to wonder: Am I feeling my own energy body, or am I picking up other people's energies? And how do I differentiate between the two?
Yes, you are undoubtedly picking up other people's energies at work. No, you shouldn't meditate at work, not in most senses of "meditate", for that very reason.
How do you distinguish between their energies and yours? Often -- usually -- you simply can't.


I have one question: What do I do now? I am going to keep meditating, keep feeling my energy body. Should I read about healing? Keep trying OBE? Reading other people's energies? Train other psychic abilities?

I probably know there is no next logical step, but I want to focus on something specific instead of just trying anything without a clear goal in mind. I would welcome any advice.
Deneon, you would be surprised how often I see people interested in personal growth looking to be told what to do. Yes, it’s very uncomfortable not to know what to do next. But spiritual or psychological growth comes partly through facing and getting through what’s uncomfortable, until what used to be so uncomfortable doesn’t get to you any more.

Have you tried the exercise in post #24, where you can ask your HS for guidance? I guess I’m saying to ask your deeper self. Its guidance is unsurpassable, if you can learn to listen to it and to stop stopping yourself from understanding it.

Yes, I consider that continuing to learn to meditate well would be a 100% great project for you at present. Let’s not forget, though, what the end goal of meditation might be. The Buddha said there were a few different forms of unhappiness: attachment, ignorance, boredom, negative emotions, and (I think he said) desire. If meditation is pursued properly and sanely and frequently and long enough, then in combination with psychotherapy or with self-enquiry and self-psychotherapy it will eventually free you from unhappiness (except for physical pain or some physical problems). I happen to know this for a fact. There are lesser but very important benefits along the way.

When a person begins to learn meditation, they may need to take it on faith for, say, months before they begin to see how it’s beneficial. But it sounds like that doesn’t apply to you. There are many traps. For instance, some people can slip into escapism, or into using so-called meditation to dull themselves. Or, because faith is usually needed at the start, so many meditators turn it all into a kind of religious faith. The rigidity of their fixed opinions of how “superior” or self-righteous they’ve become feels painful to me and is so sad to see. Some people become “professional meditators”, and get taken over by a monk-like or nun-like identity of their own creation (or maybe from a past lifetime), and kind of divorce themselves from getting their hands dirty in the wicked world out there. Sorry to hit you with all the above negatives, but there are plenty of positives in my recent post on how to meditate.

[TraineeHuman]

... I’ve found that I start to unconsciously live out scenarios in my dreams that have happened in the past in my life, or that I’ve always dreaded – in these cases I live out these scenarios and am happy to report that I face these situations in a way that would be the ‘ideal” way I could act. We’ve all had situations both significant and insignificant where we wish we had acted differently - with me it happens with giving money to someone asking where my first/automatic reaction is to refuse and I instantly regret it… I’ve had a few times recently where I’ve even backtracked a bit to correct myself and felt happy over the fact that I could stop and correct myself instead of letting myself go with “next time I’ll do it”. In these dream states I found I was more comfortably able to explore these scenarios and correct past scenarios and ones which I always dreaded would happen. It’s been quite liberating. ...

I love those replays of memories that come up spontaneously. They’re always from a different point of view than how you had seen things up till then. And that new viewpoint is always closer to the truth of what really happened. I don’t normally experience the replays in dreams, but while I’m awake, almost any time – but I need to take ten minutes to be alone doing nothing for the full replay to run in my mind.

I gladly welcome such replays, because it means some of my past hurts have been released. Often I hadn’t remembered them before because they were too painful at the time of their occurrence.

So, any time you get such a replay, Libico, it means you’ve made a breakthrough at some psychological level, and some major viewpoint that used to be part of “your personality” has shifted. The breakthrough may seem so soft and wispy it doesn’t feel like a breakthrough. But that’s because points of view, being 7D,are extremely subtle but very much dominant over our 4D emotions.
"Quite liberating"? For me it's always very liberating -- subtle but powerful.


I don't feel like I am progressing as well as I would like – what can I do to advance myself spiritually at a faster pace?


Wow! You have such high standards for yourself that you consider you have to live by no matter what. Certainly it's possible to make big progress through the sheer force of a very strong will, which you obviously do have. There are other ways to do it. They are more to do with allowing what is inside you (the treasures, not the miserables) to flow more freely. I hope I'm not overdoing the words "flow" or "let go", but they are so key.


In this experience I ran a gauntlet being faced with tests of various sorts along the way; both moral and philosophical – I can’t recall any specifics at the moment but I remember thoroughly enjoying the experience. ...
That was a formal initiation of some kind. The fact that you enjoyed it means you passed with flying colors. Congratulations. Such an initiation always means you are from now on getting extra help from and access to some group of (fully) benevolent beings not from 3D.


More and more I have the feeling that meditating is an important stepping stone in my advancement and I thought I’d ask here for some advice with this. My main issue is that I can’t turn off or let go of my mind no matter what I seem to try.


You don't actually turn off "your mind", you just gradually learn to tune it out, and eventually ignore it. It's something you gradually learn to do. At the risk of bringing in some "mind stuff", let me mention that the Buddha's advice was as follows. In all meditation you have to learn to practice just letting absolutely everything be exactly as it is. No judgments, no standards, no attempt to control. But maybe if you try the watching-the-breath practice, you can make it even simpler and just let the rhythm of your breathing take over control. Then later maybe you can add practising letting everything be just as it is.

[Libico]

You made the above statement in your 'The journey to discovering my true origins' thread. I struggled with this issue, and I still do. I try not to let some things get to me, but I don't want to get to a point where I don't care about it. I know the goal is not to not care about anything. I don't want to get mad at something or someone, but I don't want to have a 'nothing matters to me' attitude. I don't want to say 'I don't give a ****'. It's difficult to put into words what I mean exactly (English isn't my first language). I sometimes find it difficult to balance. This is going a lot better lately. I have no idea if any of this makes sense, or if this is even what you meant when you wrote that. When I read it I just thought that was exactly what I have been struggling with.

Something that is related to this but slightly different: I don't (want to) argue with people anymore. Almost any topic other people want to argue about are insignificant in the great scheme of things. But, I don't want people to walk over me of take advantage of me, just because (in their view) I do not want to argue. I guess you have to balance it, like everything else. I tend to polarize everything (everything or nothing, no gray areas), which makes balancing things a bit hard...


Deneon - I've struggled with this very thing with the way I regard most things in my life. Once I started exploring spirituality it is difficult not to become overwhelmed as suddenly most things seemed insignificant and unimportant. I know at times I can appear to be indifferent to events that happen around me, but I feel like it is more difficult to get emotionally invested in confrontations, like you say. It's a battle with my Ego to just let things go and it's a process. One thing I've come to terms with is that although I am immensely interested in exploring OBE and reaching higher Ds, I did agree to come back to 3D this time so I still need to put enough focus on this life and not go live in a cave in seclusion (as tempting as that may be sometimes!):).

Thanks for your insights TH - I am trying to be patient and let things come naturally as they may, but for me it is very difficult for me to accept that way of thinking 100% even though I know it be true. I can never really tell if it is my wisdom speaking or my Ego telling me it's OK to slack off and not do anything productive - this is something that leads me to question my intentions anytime that kind of thought comes up; to just go with the flow of things. I do go with the flow of things in general (this goes hand in hand with being indifferent to the small trivialities of life), but when it comes to meditation for example, I am always telling myself that I need to get started already and put in the effort but can't ever seem to set a time and do it consistently. That's why when I have the train of thought that maybe I'm not ready for it and I will start when it is the right time I question - is this me going with the flow of things or my Ego making an excuse for me being lazy in flowery language? I think this was the reason for asking my HS the 2nd question - maybe to get a slap on the wrist to get off my ass and do it already :).

[TraineeHuman]

Meditation frees us from slavery to the mechanical process of thinking. That is its whole purpose, in the initial stages. It enables you to turn the thinking on and off at will.

When people talk of “the mind”, this can mean any of a variety of things. It can mean just the mechanical process of thinking, which admittedly is 5D but it goes only as far as a robot or a computer can go.

Then, of course, there’s the Great Spirit. This is the Universal Mind – or what Chester calls “the will of the cosmos”.

There are other things everywhere in between which are sometimes called “mind”. Zen Buddhism had a huge debate for centuries about “What is mind (in a deeper sense)?” Eventually there was majority agreement, even, that it was more accurate to talk of “no-mind” anywhere that people talked of “mind”. For instance, whenever you deliberately not-know about something, that means you’re using your no-mind. It’s kind of a “glass half empty” approach in preference to a “glass half full”one, though there’s more to it than that. That’s a whole other discussion, but some of the issues were covered in the following thread: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?37423-What-does-ir-mean-for-you-to-free-yourself-of-illusions&p=3883858

In Western society, our whole education system and also other aspects of the culture develop “the mind” in the sense of the mechanical thinking robot/computer in 5D plus insights (8D), along with some use of anything that lies between 5D and 8D. The Western mind is generally very sneaky and clever. This is because it fails to use or integrate or be aware of parts of us all that lie at higher Ds than the eighth.

Unfortunately, Western culture teaches people to try to use the Western mind to control and conquer the whole of reality. Not that reality can ever be wholly controlled.

The Western mind uses extremes. This is because it takes concepts (or symbols, or pictures) and, in effect, pretends that the word, or the concept, is the thing that it points to. Any extreme is a lie.

However, meaning is something which exists and works in every dimension, even the highest (as does meaninglessness also). The problem is, we use 5D concepts or words or symbols or pictures, and the Western mind mistakes these for their meanings.

In reality, meaning always depends mostly on how those 5D pointers (words, concepts. etc) are being used in the given situation. How they are being experienced. The overall particular situation determines most of the meaning. The word only indicates which area of the map we need to be looking in. The meaning depends mostly on its use, and not on its label.

The Western mind incessantly mistakes the finger pointing at the moon for the moon itself.

Members are telling me on this thread that they have difficulty meditating, or traveling OB, because they find it hard to let go of their thinking mind. That almost leaves us in a vicious circle. But I hope this post at least explains why it’s necessary to just drop the Western mind when one is trying to meditate or go OB. Also that the Western mind has major limits to what it can do, and in meditation or OB experience it’s out of its depth, and can only create mischief. Unfortunately on the Forum I can only use words. But I trust it’s clear that this post isn’t offering a theory of some sort, or a way to conceptually control things. Rather, this post is intended as a pointing to certain meanings.

There’s obviously a big need at the present stage for me to explain or point to more about what meditation does and doesn’t do. Also more about what some different types of meditation are, and what some of the challenges are for people entirely new to it. I’ll be doing that in my next post or two – or for however many posts it might take.

[kintun]

Hi!
Thank you for the very good information you are sharing with all us here.... I've read a few times that you protect yourself before traveling. May I ask how do you do that?
Thanks again!

[TraineeHuman]

Hi kintun,
Thank you for asking an important question. There has already been some discussion of or information about this topic in posts #45 and #64 and #191, among others.

My intuition tells me you have developed some healing energy – your chi or life-energy is flowing and you have some ability to control it and use it. For you I would therefore suggest using much the same method as I use for myself. That is, basically, to surround myself with healing light (preferably the golden light, but the pure white light is also acceptable) before I go to sleep and to intend that the healing light is and will be protecting me and also healing me in advance of anything negative or harmful I may experience while asleep. I find it is very, very important to protect and heal not only myself and my physical body but also all the individual cells that make up my physical body.

It appears to be true, as far as I know, that creating psychic protection for the physical body automatically also creates psychic protection for the astral body. You can also cover yourself with healing light while you are travelling in your astral body.

If you find you are under attack or in a negative place while astral traveling, you can always call on your guardian angels for help and protection. You may not see them, but they will always respond if you are in genuine danger of harm of any kind, provided you ask for their help.

[soleil]

hey guys, i have been reading the SOBT pdf, that was posted above. it is an indirect method that helps teach you to do it in less than 3 days. there is a mathematical approach, and it is similar but different to other methods. i'm just sharing it, as an option for others. :)

basically it helps you do it upon awakening, instead of upon falling asleep.

[TraineeHuman]

hey guys, i have been reading the SOBT pdf, that was posted above. it is an indirect method that helps teach you to do it in less than 3 days. there is a mathematical approach, and it is similar but different to other methods. i'm just sharing it, as an option for others. :)

basically it helps you do it upon awakening, instead of upon falling asleep.

Great stuff, teradactyl. I know you're highly capable of coming up with very useful material for us all.

As I mentioned in post #23, everyone actually is OB at the moment when they wake up. Trouble is, we're "normally" so focused on the physical we don't realise we're popping in and out of 3D for the first twenty minutes. So, an exercise that sensitises us to the fact that we're still OB then -- or popping in and out of OB -- makes great sense.

I've had a very strong intuitive feeling and expectation for nearly two weeks now that at least one thing would happen that would change the game and make it easier for us.

Undoubtedly this -- and whatever else is coming -- is also a product of the group's intention to make it all easier. Good work intending, folks! I hope people can all manage to try this exercise out several times in the next fortnight. And please do tell us what happens, folks, or if nothing happens. It's all valuable data, even if you feel you have nothing new to say.

I'll continue with saying some things about the basics of meditation, because it's all transferable to learning to be OB -- except in places where it's obviously different.

I've been expecting some minor miracles because the commitment from many of you is so strong. That means that the mysteriously magical higher D parts of all of us will have been working busily, and it's only a matter of time, folks.

[TraineeHuman]

The ability to influence people you meet or know depends on whether you have released, and then developed, certain abilities inside you. Meditation is what releases all such abilities, possibly including meditation from a previous lifetime. It still takes practice, of course, to master such abilities. But, for example, I can get a whole group of people to temporarily adopt a thought and feeling that I am holding still powerfully enough.

How does that work? Well, in response to AwakeInADream I’ve already mentioned how successful manifesting depends on being able to at least hold one point of view still (which is an 8D skill) plus the ability to hold one intention still plus the ability to hold one thought still. Actually, it involves more than that, but I won’t go into even higher Ds for now.

AwakeInADream was asking about lifting or thinning the veil to higher dimensions. What we all need to do individually, though, is to get into relationship with the higher D parts of ourselves. That is precisely what meditation does, over time. We need to lift the veil within ourselves, and only then it will lift on the outside as well.

Various people talk about “ascension”. Well, what we need instead is “descension”, if there is such a word. We need a descent of the higher intelligence and light in our higher D parts more fully into our bodies and hearts and minds. That’s what meditation also does, if used properly. Make your light shine more and more strongly – that’s what I want and suggest you to achieve. That’s what meditation can do for you, eventually.

Of course, the more that the veil has been lifted in a general way for you, the more natural, if not easy, it should be for you to separate from the lowest level, which is the physical. That’s because you’ll already have a strong sense, even if maybe not a clear one, of what some higher levels might involve.

[TraineeHuman]

I’ve been reading the SOBT book. I’ve tried all the variations of the initial exercise and they all worked, first try.

The initial exercise is just to feel some separation from your physical body.
To quote the instructions:
“The most important thing is not to think too hard and not to lose those first seconds of awakening.”

Another quote:
“Interesting Fact! At School of Out-of-Body Travel seminars, the main task consists not in explaining the proper procedure, but merely in getting participants to follow it to the letter. Even if that goal is only halfway accomplished, success is inevitable.”

The next stage is to start doing more, like locating an object, etc.

Then there's what they call "the phase". They recommend you only try learning that on days off from work. They explain how to use that to travel to other planets, or forward or back in time, etc.

Just read it and follow the instructions, folks.

The book is also full of detailed descriptions of the astral journeys different individuals took, as remembered by those individuals.

[AwakeInADream]

Various people talk about “ascension”. Well, what we need instead is “descension”, if there is such a word. We need a descent of the higher intelligence and light in our higher D parts more fully into our bodies and hearts and minds. That’s what meditation also does, if used properly. Make your light shine more and more strongly – that’s what I want and suggest you to achieve. That’s what meditation can do for you, eventually.


I totally agree that "descension" is much more important than "ascension", and I have a feeling that this may very well be 'the meaning of life'. To fully manifest in the 'here and now' all of the powers we can obtain from the higher dimensions.

If we use the glyph of the Tree of Life from the Kabbalah so that each Sephiroth represents each of the D's that you are talking about so that Malkuth would be 3D and Kether would be 10D (or higher?), then we could also take the notion from the Kabbalah that no Sephiroth (or dimension) is any more holy than any other, that they are all equally as holy.

In fact this physical 3D world is the end result of God's glorious creation, what started out as a spark in the highest dimension, eminated through each D following the pattern of a lightning flash until it reached us here in the physical world. This is it! The meaning for our very existence as spiritual beings is here in the physical world that we created and are still creating.

Of course it's not finished yet and it is by no means perfect, but I think it could be a 'perfect world' if we all carry on searching up through the higher dimensions, but most importantly of all, that we take what we find there and manifest it here. I may be an 'idealist' but this is the only thing that makes sense to me, still I am aware that perfection may take aeon's to achieve realistically. We must try.

Behind the illusion of entropy, perfection swells.


You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one

John Lennon 'Imagine'

Disclaimer: I may very well be talking nonsense here, so don't take me too seriously. 'The meaning of life' lol :lol:

[TraineeHuman]

The SOTB material is very easy to follow. It doesn’t take up much of your time. I certainly hope everyone who reads this thread tries it out soon. Especially the people who have said they aspire to astral travel some day but not right now!

The SOTB material should remove any perception in anyone here that astral travel is difficult to achieve. We can then build from there. From now on I’ll be assuming that you’ve already successfully done the stage one exercise.

Meditation enables one to go OB traveling in higher levels of 4D and then 5D and even higher. Meditation is like a rocket ship that goes straight up. OB travel is like a glider that travels horizontally for most of the time.

When I started astral travel, for the first year I seemed to be in 4D but gradually kept going higher within the levels of 4D. Then I read someone who said it was much more fun and more subtle to travel in 5D, even though it may seem strange and kind of abstract at first. Because I had done a considerable deal of meditation, I found I could naturally astral travel in 5D. It was indeed much more fun and more interesting. But I may not have tried it so soon had I not read someone saying: “Try traveling through the dimension of pure thought.” I’d like to now pass that on to you.

Reading the SOTB material brings back memories from when I was first learning astral travel. Two of the suggested methods are rotating your energy body while keeping your physical body still, and rubbing your energy hands together while keeping your physical hands still. I now remember these were things I often used to do to reassure myself that I was “out”.

The lower astral looks and feels almost the same as the physical world. Initially, I used to travel all over the planet, occasionally meeting other travelers. I was mostly only interested in learning about personal growth and spirituality and transpersonal psychology then, so I sought out any traveler who had information on these.

I got to know a lot of cities in the US, for example, by their bridges. Then, some years later, I’d see a movie set in one of those cities. I’d think: “Oh, so Minneapolis is the city with that bridge.” One town looked much the same as any other, particularly in any one country.

Then I got into visiting many lower-4D pseudo-“heavens” that every religion, and every sub-sect of any religion, had there. In 4D thoughts materialize instantly, so people build entire pseudo-“worlds” together there. Or they create a very deceptive external façade to themselves.

Then I got more interested in visiting other planets and moons in the solar system. I found I seemed to learn much more there about things like spirituality. But after several years that became passé too.

By this time I had well and truly discovered 5D travel, which made me lose interest in almost anything 4D. I made contact with “spiritual” groups in the middle to upper fifth. Some of them led me to individuals alive in the physical. Those individuals became my spiritual or psychological or psychic teachers.

Somebody who astral travels a great deal but doesn't meditate a huge amount could spend a lifetime of OB travel never going further than 5D. Indeed, even to approach the 6D border seems like falling off the edge of the world. And it is precisely that, provided we're talking about the world of form. But I found that 6D was again far more satisfying and fascinating even than it was in 5D.

From 4D on, it's possible to access information about anything whatsoever. However, things like defense secrets are usually under heavy camouflage and also have powerful psychic guards to keep you away.

[TraineeHuman]

Various people talk about “ascension”. Well, what we need instead is “descension”, if there is such a word. We need a descent of the higher intelligence and light in our higher D parts more fully into our bodies and hearts and minds. That’s what meditation also does, if used properly. Make your light shine more and more strongly – that’s what I want and suggest you to achieve. That’s what meditation can do for you, eventually.


I totally agree that "descension" is much more important than "ascension", and I have a feeling that this may very well be 'the meaning of life'. To fully manifest in the 'here and now' all of the powers we can obtain from the higher dimensions.

I agree enormously with what you mean.

I guess, though, I would say the meaning of X is always X, whatever X may be. But if we fully manifest the higher power, then we're more fully here, aren't we? The meaning of life is the meaning we can manifest into our life and the lives of others. And that's life at its fullest.


If we use the glyph of the Tree of Life from the Kabbalah so that each Sephiroth represents each of the D's that you are talking about so that Malkuth would be 3D and Kether would be 10D (or higher?), then we could also take the notion from the Kabbalah that no Sephiroth (or dimension) is any more holy than any other, that they are all equally as holy.

In fact this physical 3D world is the end result of God's glorious creation, what started out as a spark in the highest dimension, eminated through each D following the pattern of a lightning flash until it reached us here in the physical world. This is it! The meaning for our very existence as spiritual beings is here in the physical world that we created and are still creating.

Of course it's not finished yet ...

I understand there are some schools of yoga or Hinduism that teach that once a person can be stable in Nirvana (14D), they should permanently let go of and be divorced from everything in lower dimensions. That's very misguided, as I suggested in the following post: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47841-Adventures-Beyond-the-Body&p=531897&viewful=1#post531897

That's the ultimate escapism. (And what a waste!) At lesser levels too, escapism into spiritual bliss is the ultimate bonbon -- or it seems to be. But it's an even greater bonbon to ultimately experience the sadness in the physical world being transformed into pure joy.

[AwakeInADream]

Hi TraineeHuman!:)

I have been mulling over an idea for some time, an idea for a prolonged meditation that I feel would be of great benefit for me. The reason I have put off it's execution is because I also feel that it could be of great harm to me. It could go either way, so I have as yet done nothing with this idea. So I will ask your advice.

My idea is this: That I should meditate for an extended period on only one subject, and that this should be a complete exploration and acceptance of my own death. That I should think of nothing else but my own death for many hours, and thus drain out a lifetimes worth of fear. To die fully in the mind, but still live.

Should I do this?

Could this harm me psychologically? Would it help? Could I go insane?

I have a very strong desire to kick 'death' right up the ass, but I am a little afraid that it might bite back....

[TraineeHuman]

Hi TraineeHuman!:)

I have been mulling over an idea for some time, an idea for a prolonged meditation that I feel would be of great benefit for me. The reason I have put off it's execution is because I also feel that it could be of great harm to me. It could go either way, so I have as yet done nothing with this idea. So I will ask your advice.

My idea is this: That I should meditate for an extended period on only one subject, and that this should be a complete exploration and acceptance of my own death. That I should think of nothing else but my own death for many hours, and thus drain out a lifetimes worth of fear. To die fully in the mind, but still live.

Should I do this?

Could this harm me psychologically? Would it help? Could I go insane?

I have a very strong desire to kick 'death' right up the ass, but I am a little afraid that it might bite back....

So far I’ve been doing my best to use the word “meditation” in a different sense than what is known as “contemplation”. Contemplation is often known as a form of “meditation”, particularly in Judeo-Christian and Muslim traditions and cultures. The difference is that in what I prefer to call meditation proper, what you’re doing is emptying your consciousness of thoughts. That emptying, rather counter-intuitively I suppose, is in itself a liberation from slavery.

Contemplation is what happens where you take a topic and you concentrate on thinking about that topic only. You keep focusing only on that topic, even after you’ve completely run out of being able to come up with any more of your thoughts or ideas about it. For a while after the thoughts stop you’ll probably just feel the energy of your emotions regarding this topic. Then they’ll give way to something subtler, which you may or may not perceive as “energy”. But you just stay with the topic – stay focused on it, that is.

Do I think that the question: “What does death really mean to me?” is a good one for contemplation? Absolutely. I think it’s brilliant. For anyone. But particularly for you, AwakeInADream.

Do I think it’s a good idea for you to spend many hours or days or weekends just contemplating that one topic? Well, to begin with I’d suggest doing it for no more than an hour or so at a time. My intuition says you would be well advised at present not to do it more than twice in a day, unfortunately. But certainly, it would be a great idea for you to do it every day, if you’re so motivated.

I do appreciate the strength of your intention to become free of all fear. I applaud that. Overcoming fear at a deep level is a real biggie, though. It takes work, and awareness. The energy of fear is the energy of freezing, or else of running away, or going invisible. Inwardly you have to keep overcoming the impulse to not be fully present, when you do this practice.

But going to extremes is something I see as belonging to the clever Western mind. Just spend a reasonable but substantial amount of time facing that fear each day, but also give everything plenty of time to percolate through your subconscious. And do get very grounded before you start. The way to face fear is with stillness. But the stillness comes first: you need to be able to always find that stillness easily before you try something like an all-day marathon, I feel. I don't believe that thinking of death for many hours in one hit will drain out the entire fear of death, or fear in general, I'm afraid (so to speak).

Also, dying fully in the mind isn't something you can will yourself to do. It has to happen organically, coming de profundis. It has to have its own momentum. It can't be forced, any more than one can ever force love.

Does anyone else have any thoughts or relevant experience?

Another practice which may very well be helpful to you is a type of walking meditation the same as or similar to that practised in Zen Buddhism. I'll do my best to describe how one does that in my next post.

[Libico]

Very interesting AwakeInADream - I think what you'll be doing is an amazing way to shed yourself of your fears of death and I'd be very interested to hear how things progress with that. I can relate, as in the military I had many long hours to kill and spent a lot of that time in contemplation of among other things, death and what happens after. Over the course of what was likely a couple of years I believe that I came to an understanding that has let me accept death for what it is - an inevitability and stepping stone as opposed to end of all things and something to be feared. Very curious to hear more about the walking meditation TH is referring to - I wonder how close this was to what I experienced.

Just my two cents here, but I'd recommend against trying to kick death in its ass per se; try to wine and dine it! Get yourself more acquainted with what you intuitively feel happens when our physical bodies die - serious contemplation and focus leads to clarity that will give you a better idea of why this is such a big fear for you. Some of our strongest fears originate from the unknown (and death is the classic example of this), and exploring the root of your fears will go a long way to overcoming them.

[TraineeHuman]

The following has never been described publicly before, as far as I know. However, it is used to this day in Zen Buddhism. In fact, I’ve come across the writings of four Zen masters who described what types of meditation and other activities they set for their students. I was very surprised to learn that two of them, including the sitting Zen Patriarch, assigned more hours per day to the walking meditation I’ll now attempt to describe than they did to sitting meditation. That was nice, because this walking meditation has always been one of my favorite types of meditation (as also has the very slow motion walk some Buddhists do – that’s just walking in a straight line, in very slow motion).

The walking meditation is sometimes also known as “walking between two posts (or walls)” meditation. The way it works is that you walk about five to ten meters till you’re at a post (or wall), then you stop and ground yourself by firmly slapping your right palm, at around shoulder height or a little higher, against the post or wall, so that you really feel its solidity and you know with your whole body, including your eyes, exactly what your location is at that moment. Then you turn around 180 degrees backwards, and face the opposite post (or wall), noting its exact location, and your exact location relative to it. Then you walk to that post (or wall) and repeat the above. In between the posts you go into 4D (which I’m assuming you can do because the SOTB pdf teradactyl mentioned at the end of post #277 (quoting a post by Raf) teaches you how to simply detach into 4D). While in 4D you just silently let the energies flow of whatever negative emotions are coming up in you that you feel a need to work on (such as your fear of death, say).

It’s essential that when you come to each post, every time you come fully back into your physical body and regain full control and coordination of it, and only then should you turn around to walk back. You quickly learn how to do this with practice, provided you are initially very, very conscientious about taking back full control of your physical body and being fully in your body at that moment.

Well, that’s the exercise. It may not sound like much, but it offloads baggage from you very efficiently.

[AuCo]

I am sorry for being late in response - so much to catch on and I lost track of this thread.

Well, it happened once and only as an accident. I was playing ping pong with some friends. The ball was flying only within inches towards my chest. I thought I had to jump back to get enough room to return it, then it just happened. It felt (the weightlessness) like when I was dreaming.




Surface skimming: making long stride along a clear path, just inches off ground for as long as I wish to stay afloat. Yes, this happens when I feel some what in a rush, and only in a dream, until it actually happened in real life.
Are you saying you can levitate, AuCo? If so, what did you do to learn that? Meditation? T'ai chi? Q'i gong? And how often did you practise? Did you have a teacher?

[soleil]

It’s essential that when you come to each post, every time you come fully back into your physical body and regain full control and coordination of it, and only then should you turn around to walk back. You quickly learn how to do this with practice, provided you are initially very, very conscientious about taking back full control of your physical body and being fully in your body at that moment.

Hi TH, i actually really like this concept. can you elaborate more on the moment i've quoted above? i guess i am interested in learning more about the 4D that happens in this moment, in between posts/walls.

[TraineeHuman]

I prefer to write only from my own experience. So the following is my take on this. What I experience between walls (or posts) is a free flow of emotions, by which I mean stuck energies. They flow through my body and mind.

I watch them with a view to understanding them, rather than fully experiencing them. The difference is like, you don’t actually need to become an alcoholic to know that drinking too much is not a good idea and can have socially and personally destructive consequences; or, you don’t need to actually run over a child before you understand that reckless driving can be very dangerous. It’s about somehow catching the insight into what was behind each major unhappy experience.

I guess that’s what I would call “energy work” rather than it being a typical form of meditation. At some point – maybe only years in the future – I’ll get some sort of insight that the detached watching of that free flow of emotions was a detached partial re-experiencing of certain specific past traumas – some even from past lifetimes or alternate timelines. But while I’m doing the exercise every now and then insights or energy “discharges” will come up. Though I probably won’t know where in my past they’re coming from and creating a healing of.

So, for example, AwakeInADream might reflect a little on his fear of death or his fear of whatever. Then if he does this exercise the emotions will probably be mostly fears, and while he is watching them he will be detachedly treating them as “just energy” with no special significance on a conscious level – as far as he can manage. It could take hours of attempted practice before a newbie might learn how even to let her or his stuck energies flow. Substantial prior experience in a form of sitting meditation, such as the watching-the-breath meditation, would usually make it come much quicker.

Beyond the 4D and 5D flow of emotions (and stuck ideas) there are subtler flows in higher Ds, but I guess most of that comes later, only after many, many hours.

Does this answer your question fully enough, teradactyl?

[kintun]

Hi TH,
I want to ask you something, though it may sound a little weird. You know, there is this "spirit guy" who walkes around my house everyday but always passes the night in my shower. I've talked to him, I know his name and that he died of cancer because he smoked too much. Many times he puts some "cigarette ashes" in my washing machine, so when I open it, clothes smell like an ashtray. The thing is I've told him to leave and all that, but he doesn't. And when I try to have an OBE I feel afraid to find him at night.
I know it sounds kind of silly, but that's it...do you have any advice for me in this particular case? I want so much to have a complete OBE but fear gets in the way....
Thanks again for all your posts!

[TraineeHuman]

The type of dead person you have in your home, kintun, is described in post #32. These types of dead people are called “earthbound”. They are also called “ghosts”. It can take a number of years, even decades, before they will move on. They live in the lowest level of 4D.

I have certainly managed to persuade or guide literally thousands of them to ascend to mid-4D or higher. But I used to have a spiritual teacher once who had a dead Arab man who for many years would sit in the corner of the room where he worked with his clients. That Arab man somehow believed that that apartment was his home, and the teacher was unable to persuade him otherwise.

If I could physically come to your home, I’m sure I could have a conversation with this dead person and probably get him to leave by creating a pool of healing light in 4D which he would be able to see was more attractive and feels more fun in some ways than where he is living now. Unfortunately, you live in a different country. But I’ll visit in 4D during the weekend and see if I can get your “lodger” to move out.

You have absolutely nothing to fear regarding this person. His only power is to bluff – that is, to control you by using your fear. If you can hold back your fear, he has no other power over you. Now that I have put some attention on him, he has been sending big shivers down my spine, trying to make me think I am afraid of him. But I’m not afraid at all.

The fact that he can leave cigarette ash behind means that he has been dead and in 4D for a long time. Otherwise, he would not have learnt how to control anything in 3D so well that he could materialize 3D cigarette ash. He may therefore be almost ready to leave anyway.

I have noticed that earthbound spirits like him often look for spiritually evolved people and try to live near them or be near them. This usually seems to be because after they die they work out that they are not in “heaven”, and they feel they should therefore find a “spiritual” person because they hope such a person will know how to get to “heaven”. All the dead people around them will be as lost as they are, so that’s why they look for such a person in the 3D world.

After this weekend, please let me know if he is still in your house. If he is, there are a number of things we can try to remove him then, but I’m hoping I can do it when I visit. I can tell that he’s very worried that I might be right about that.

[Chester]

Hi - I had an incredible stretch starting the evening of February 5th and extending through all day yesterday (the 6th). Why I am writing about this here is because there was a dog in my life named Angel. She lived to be almost 17 years old. She was with me through so many hard times. She experienced some of my darker sides but mostly she experienced my good nature. I love her today even though she is "gone" physically. During the wee hours of yesterday morning, I was dreaming vividly of dogs. Suddenly near the end of this dream segment - There was Angel! I was able to share with her my love for her and I was able to apologize for when I imposed my will upon her about which I had been carrying guilt for years now. I felt her forgiveness. In fact, her appearance to me was her demonstration of her forgiveness.

Strangely the dream shifted and I found myself with another "angel" - this one is a woman who is still with us and is 95 years old. This woman is named Gay. She is the mother of my father's second wife, "Ginger," who passed on in 1979. My father followed Ginger to his (and perhaps their) next experience a few months later by way of his will to leave this physical realm. Ginger and my father had a "miracle" baby (a miracle in that Ginger was told since the early 60s she could not have children). Christopher, her only child and the only child of my father and Ginger was only 1.5 years old at the time of losing both his mother and father. At that time Gay was in her early 60s. Gay agreed to raise her grandson, my half brother. Chris calls Gay, "Mom," to this day and loves her dearly.

This side of the family lived in California (my sister and I from Texas and still Texans) and so we had little contact with Chris. Strangely, I recently learned in an e-mail from my sister that Gay's birthday happened to coincide with my father's which is January 13th. I decided to risk calling her. The risk being that I knew if she was still with us, she had to be nearing 100.

I called on her birthday and was able to speak with both her and my brother when it had been years since we spoke. It was and still is an incredibly healing experience.

So in the same sleep time though a completely shifted dream experience, I dreamed of Gay. In the dream she was loving and kind to me. I needed these "healings" as I have been ready to receive them. I received these astral visits because I am now ready to learn and grow from the issues I had within me that prevented this bonding at this level of my familial experience. It is about time I stop trying to save the world and just give love to the gifts I have been directly given...

my family.

[soleil]

I prefer to write only from my own experience. So the following is my take on this. What I experience between walls (or posts) is a free flow of emotions, by which I mean stuck energies. They flow through my body and mind.

I watch them with a view to understanding them, rather than fully experiencing them. The difference is like, you don’t actually need to become an alcoholic to know that drinking too much is not a good idea and can have socially and personally destructive consequences; or, you don’t need to actually run over a child before you understand that reckless driving can be very dangerous. It’s about somehow catching the insight into what was behind each major unhappy experience.

I guess that’s what I would call “energy work” rather than it being a typical form of meditation. At some point – maybe only years in the future – I’ll get some sort of insight that the detached watching of that free flow of emotions was a detached partial re-experiencing of certain specific past traumas – some even from past lifetimes or alternate timelines. But while I’m doing the exercise every now and then insights or energy “discharges” will come up. Though I probably won’t know where in my past they’re coming from and creating a healing of.

So, for example, AwakeInADream might reflect a little on his fear of death or his fear of whatever. Then if he does this exercise the emotions will probably be mostly fears, and while he is watching them he will be detachedly treating them as “just energy” with no special significance on a conscious level – as far as he can manage. It could take hours of attempted practice before a newbie might learn how even to let her or his stuck energies flow. Substantial prior experience in a form of sitting meditation, such as the watching-the-breath meditation, would usually make it come much quicker.

Beyond the 4D and 5D flow of emotions (and stuck ideas) there are subtler flows in higher Ds, but I guess most of that comes later, only after many, many hours.

Does this answer your question fully enough, teradactyl?
yes, very clearly. i appreciate your response and do look forward to accumulating experience doing new types of meditation.

[TraineeHuman]

...there was a dog in my life named Angel. She lived to be almost 17 years old. She was with me through so many hard times. She experienced some of my darker sides but mostly she experienced my good nature. I love her today even though she is "gone" physically. During the wee hours of yesterday morning, I was dreaming vividly of dogs. Suddenly near the end of this dream segment - There was Angel! I was able to share with her my love for her and I was able to apologize for when I imposed my will upon her about which I had been carrying guilt for years now. I felt her forgiveness. In fact, her appearance to me was her demonstration of her forgiveness.

Strangely the dream shifted and I found myself with another "angel" - this one is a woman who is still with us and is 95 years old. This woman is named Gay. She is the mother of my father's second wife, "Ginger," who passed on in 1979. My father followed Ginger to his (and perhaps their) next experience a few months later by way of his will to leave this physical realm. ...
I decided to risk calling her. The risk being that I knew if she was still with us, she had to be nearing 100.

I called on her birthday and was able to speak with both her and my brother when it had been years since we spoke. It was and still is an incredibly healing experience.

So in the same sleep time though a completely shifted dream experience, I dreamed of Gay. In the dream she was loving and kind to me. I needed these "healings" as I have been ready to receive them. I received these astral visits because I am now ready to learn and grow from the issues I had within me that prevented this bonding at this level of my familial experience. It is about time I stop trying to save the world and just give love to the gifts I have been directly given...

my family.
Pet animals remain just as much our wholehearted friends after they die. From their point of view, by being their proto-parent we opened up a whole huge world for them that they never knew existed. After all, they try to copy us and our energies faithfully in every way, as far as they can -- even though it's not always easy for them. That huge new world for them particularly includes the world of being consciously individual, and the desire and possibility for them to incarnate as a human in the near future.

For this they are enormously grateful.

I would say you're quite right, Chester. Your cat completely forgave you for any abuse.

There's also something known as the Stockholm syndrome in humans, where hostages fall in love with their captors. They do so as a way of subconsciously deceiving themselves and avoiding the need to fully face what it means to be a hostage. I don't think animals are devious enough to exhibit anything like that syndrome, though.

Dead pets will often wait for decades in 4D until they can join you there after your death. They can put many helpful thoughts in your head telepathically, most of which you probably won't notice. I'm sure you're right in hinting that the ideas to re-connect with those family members was put in your head by your faithful cat!

I imagine the use of animal totems came about because someone noticed how helpful and what loyal friends animals are even in the afterlife.

[greybeard]

Mellen-Thomas Benedict
stated that via OBE you can visit every place in the Universe he likened his NDE to an OBE
The audio below is a very positive view of now and the future.
Chris



NDE Revelations
Mellen-Thomas Benedict shared details of his incredible Near Death Experience (NDE) that took place in 1982, while he was in hospice care for a terminal illness. He was without vital signs for at least an hour and a half before he returned to his body.

Here are some of highlights of what he learned while on the "Other Side:" The Other Side is not all it's cracked up to be-- being in a human body is actually a more optimal way to experience the universe. Black holes at the center of galaxies function as great processors of universal matter-- a total recycling machine. No evil exists in the human soul, and a person is purified of any evil or darkness before they are reincarnated. Reincarnation occurs automatically, driven by the body which is more powerful and millions of years older than the mind. The Other Side is totally individualized and each person experiences it uniquely. Earth has expended 90% of its life force, the sun is getting old, and we're beginning to lose the moon. Also the liquid metal core of the Earth is cooling and water will evaporate within the next 2,000 years. It's humanity's manifest destiny to leave Earth and colonize other planets. Within the next 400 years such "star seeding" will begin.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_r3fVV8F1U

[TraineeHuman]

Mellen-Thomas Benedict shared details of his incredible Near Death Experience (NDE) ...
Here are some of highlights of what he learned while on the "Other Side:" The Other Side is not all it's cracked up to be-- being in a human body is actually a more optimal way to experience the universe. ... No evil exists in the human soul, and a person is purified of any evil or darkness before they are reincarnated...
So many issues raised in one video, Greybeard! Thank you very much. I certainly have comments on a variety of these issues. But it would be great to hear about others’ comments or experiences or opinions too. And yes, of course. NDEs are probably the most common type of OBE where the individual goes very deeply into some OB world or other and often stays there for a relatively long time.

I seem to remember seeing postings of yours, Greybeard, of other videos of at least two other NDE survivors. If I remember correctly, in each case there was much that conflicted with Benedict's account. As Benedict says, the experience of the world after death varies greatly with each individual.

I agree that after physical death a great cleansing of “negativity” occurs for every one of us. But what also occurs is that, after the life-review, each individual – or, rather, their HS – judges them. Although the HS was in many ways nonjudgmental while we were alive, now it briefly becomes very judgmental. And because I have lengthy clear memories of the “between lives” worlds, I claim to know that the individual lays all those judgments onto their own body-mind at the time of birth in their next physical body.

Let’s set aside, for a moment, whatever the NWO and the elite may do to the person. Typically, the person imposes many huge psychological burdens on themselves in the terrible negative self-judgments they take on at birth. “I’m not attractive enough,” “I’m so incomplete,” and dozens of others, differing from one individual to another. So, although I guess it’s accurate enough to say that an infant about to be born has been wiped clean of their negativity, I’d also point out that many of the judgments that infant is committed to taking on at birth are themselves negative.

This is why I feel it’s so crucial for everyone to learn to genuinely like themselves, and to forgive themselves for all their mistakes while also staying responsible for them all. I guess I don’t really care if they do it through meditation and they discover how beautiful and positive their true inner nature is, and that that’s the real them. Or they may do it in various ways – such as person-centred psychotherapy, or an NDE or even a whole number of OBEs. Maybe just by practicing feeling the aliveness inside them at least several times a day – which for me shades into the basis of many types of meditation.

Imagine the difference between how someone who has learnt to really, genuinely like themselves will judge themselves after death, compared to someone who hasn’t. Let’s say they have had exactly the same or equivalent experiences all their lives. The second person may conclude: “I always make a mess of relationships, in the following list of ways…” The first person, however, might honestly judge themselves as follows: “None of my relationships were perfect, but by and large I managed to hold them together nicely for as long as they were constructive and as long as they were meant to last.” I guess it comes down a lot to glass half-empty or half-full, but it has to be totally honest and totally real and regarding how you truly perceive yourself.

“The OB worlds aren’t all they’re cracked up to be”? I’ll have to take a bite on that one, in one of my next posts.

[TraineeHuman]

kintun, I visited your home in 4D and spent fifteen minutes working with the spirit there. I didn’t know in advance what I would do, because he kept reading my thoughts “in advance”.

But I soon decided to send him psychic healing. He didn’t seem to be able to resist taking such energy in, at all. That was a surprise to me, because I know that most people with a physical body resist accepting psychic healing “energy” fully in some way.

He soon began trying to take over my body – to do a “walk-in” into my body. In a way, he was kind of doing to me something like what I was trying to do to him, you could say. Although it seemed clear from the start that he wouldn’t succeed at this, he was doing it as a tactic to try to distract me from continuing to send healing energy. I experienced strong pain at the points where he tried to enter my body. Mostly these were at the middle of where the back of the neck meets the back of the head, and also where the middle of the bottom of the neck joins the collarbone. He also briefly tried to enter by my solar plexus, through the front of my brain and through the amygdala at the side of the brain. It was very painful and very uncomfortable.

I saw waves of violet energy a number of times. Those normally appear when certain healing angels come to remove some energies and take them “up” into a higher dimension. So the strength of his need to stay earthbound in the lowest level of 4D won’t be as strong now as it was before.

At the end I saw there was still a great deal of slightly darkish red in his energy field. I’m sure that energy is what’s keeping him earthbound. Probably he was addicted to drugs or alcohol, though I suppose it’s possible it was just nicotine. I haven’t been able to get details like that from him so far.

Because there was just so much darker red energy still left, I consider I need to visit him again, to see if more of that energy can be moved. I’ll be doing so within the next two days, and will have some further comments then.

[kintun]

kintun, I visited your home in 4D and spent fifteen minutes working with the spirit there. I didn’t know in advance what I would do, because he kept reading my thoughts “in advance”.

But I soon decided to send him psychic healing. He didn’t seem to be able to resist taking such energy in, at all. That was a surprise to me, because I know that most people with a physical body resist accepting psychic healing “energy” fully in some way.

He soon began trying to take over my body – to do a “walk-in” into my body. In a way, he was kind of doing to me something like what I was trying to do to him, you could say. Although it seemed clear from the start that he wouldn’t succeed at this, he was doing it as a tactic to try to distract me from continuing to send healing energy. I experienced strong pain at the points where he tried to enter my body. Mostly these were at the middle of where the back of the neck meets the back of the head, and also where the middle of the bottom of the neck joins the collarbone. He also briefly tried to enter by my solar plexus, through the front of my brain and through the amygdala at the side of the brain. It was very painful and very uncomfortable.

I saw waves of violet energy a number of times. Those normally appear when certain healing angels come to remove some energies and take them “up” into a higher dimension. So the strength of his need to stay earthbound in the lowest level of 4D won’t be as strong now as it was before.

At the end I saw there was still a great deal of slightly darkish red in his energy field. I’m sure that energy is what’s keeping him earthbound. Probably he was addicted to drugs or alcohol, though I suppose it’s possible it was just nicotine. I haven’t been able to get details like that from him so far.

Because there was just so much darker red energy still left, I consider I need to visit him again, to see if more of that energy can be moved. I’ll be doing so within the next two days, and will have some further comments then.

Wow! Thank you VERY MUCH TH!! I truly appreciate the time your are dedicating to help me with this issue......
I don't know what hours of difference we have but today I entered the bathroom this morning about 9 and it smelled as if someone had been smoking in there...I felt something like anger (revenge?) but in a weaker way. Now I was inside again, to see how it felt, and his energy is much weak...no wonder he didn't leave the many times I asked him...The only thing that kept him away is an object called "energetic octagon" (octagono energético in Spanish) which is a curious though effective device to hold those energies back.
Thanks again! ! :D

[AwakeInADream]

I think I may have gone OBE this morning, but then it very quickly turned into a dream which was at first lucid but then went out of my control.

As I woke up I stared into the darkness and kept still, and then suddenly was able to see my hands in front of me, then the scenery of a town that I don't know. Then I was able to feel my body and was amazed at how physical I felt, at how real it was.

I was in some kind of shop looking out of the window at a town I didn't know, but at the same time I do feel like I've visited this place often in dreams. I then turned to my left and saw a woman standing there. I was curious to know weather she could see me so I said to her "Am I really here?". She just looked at me surprised as if to say 'Well where else would you be?', but she didn't speak. I then asked her "What town is this?" to which she did speak in answer, except I didn't understand her words, they were foreign in a way that I didn't recognize (perhaps even alien). I repeated my question 3 times and got the same indecipherable reply.

What happened next was much more dreamlike without any control and quickly faded from my memory.

Was this a real OBE? Or am I still just practicing in my dreams? It certainly felt real to begin with, but I'm unsure at which point it turned into a dream. Maybe only my hands were real and the place, but the woman and the strange conversation was a dream?

Also I often visit places in my dreams that I've never been to in life, and the places are always the same, streets and houses.

Are these places real? And if so are they real in this world or are they real in the astral plane? Do we build mental homes for ourselves in the astral plain that are often forgotten about when we wake up?

I'm pretty sure that I have a house over there that doesn't change much over time. I get the feeling that I'm living two separate lives in two plains at once, but that these parallel lives rarely know or remember each other.

Anyway, I'm rather confused about what this experience was, but also about who I was as a possibly independent version of myself living another life.:confused:

----------------------------------------

When I woke up after this I took advantage of my unusual 'in-between' mind-state and began to contemplate death at which point I had a flash of insight: that 'death is something that we could choose to give up, as bad habit rather like smoking.'

This 'insight' doesn't make sense to my rational conscious mind, but I observed this as a fully formed idea not of my own.

[AwakeInADream]

NDE Revelations
Mellen-Thomas Benedict shared details of his incredible Near Death Experience (NDE) that took place in 1982, while he was in hospice care for a terminal illness. He was without vital signs for at least an hour and a half before he returned to his body.

Here are some of highlights of what he learned while on the "Other Side:" The Other Side is not all it's cracked up to be-- being in a human body is actually a more optimal way to experience the universe. Black holes at the center of galaxies function as great processors of universal matter-- a total recycling machine. No evil exists in the human soul, and a person is purified of any evil or darkness before they are reincarnated. Reincarnation occurs automatically, driven by the body which is more powerful and millions of years older than the mind. The Other Side is totally individualized and each person experiences it uniquely. Earth has expended 90% of its life force, the sun is getting old, and we're beginning to lose the moon. Also the liquid metal core of the Earth is cooling and water will evaporate within the next 2,000 years. It's humanity's manifest destiny to leave Earth and colonize other planets. Within the next 400 years such "star seeding" will begin.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_r3fVV8F1U

Hi Greybeard!:) The part I've highlighted about the water evaporating reminds me of the prophecy of the future Maitreya Buddha (http://web.singnet.com.sg/~alankhoo/Maitreya.htm). This quote from the prophecy about the time that he will come:


At that time, the ocean will lose much of its water, and there will be much less of it than now. In consequence a world-ruler will have no difficulties in passing across it. India, this island of Jambu, will be quite flat everywhere, it will measure ten thousand leagues, and all men will have the privilege of living on it. It will have innumerable inhabitants, who will commit no crimes or evil deeds, but will take pleasure in doing good. The soil will then be free from thorns, even, and covered with a fresh green growth of grass; when one jumps on it, it gives way, and becomes soft like the leaves of the cotton tree. It has a delicious scent, and tasty rice grows on it, without any work. Rich silken, and other fabrics of various colours shoot forth from the trees. The trees will bear
leaves, flowers and fruits simultaneously; they are as high as the voice can reach and they last for eight myriads of years. Human beings are then without any blemishes, moral offences are unknown among them, and they are full of zest and joy. Their bodies are very large and their skin has a fine hue. Their strength is quite extraordinary. Three kinds of illness only are known -- people must relieve their bowels, they must eat, they must get old. Only when five hundred years old do the women marry.

It's an extremely hopeful prophecy:), even if they're won't be much water:( I'm sure we'll cope:)

[TraineeHuman]

I think I may have gone OBE this morning, but then it very quickly turned into a dream which was at first lucid but then went out of my control.

As I woke up I stared into the darkness and kept still, and then suddenly was able to see my hands in front of me, then the scenery of a town that I don't know. Then I was able to feel my body and was amazed at how physical I felt, at how real it was.

I was in some kind of shop looking out of the window at a town I didn't know, but at the same time I do feel like I've visited this place often in dreams. I then turned to my left and saw a woman standing there. I was curious to know weather she could see me so I said to her "Am I really here?". She just looked at me surprised as if to say 'Well where else would you be?', but she didn't speak. I then asked her "What town is this?" to which she did speak in answer, except I didn't understand her words, they were foreign in a way that I didn't recognize (perhaps even alien). I repeated my question 3 times and got the same indecipherable reply.

What happened next was much more dreamlike without any control and quickly faded from my memory.

Was this a real OBE? Or am I still just practicing in my dreams? It certainly felt real to begin with, but I'm unsure at which point it turned into a dream. Maybe only my hands were real and the place, but the woman and the strange conversation was a dream?

Also I often visit places in my dreams that I've never been to in life, and the places are always the same, streets and houses.

Are these places real? And if so are they real in this world or are they real in the astral plane? Do we build mental homes for ourselves in the astral plain that are often forgotten about when we wake up?

I'm pretty sure that I have a house over there that doesn't change much over time. I get the feeling that I'm living two separate lives in two plains at once, but that these parallel lives rarely know or remember each other.

Anyway, I'm rather confused about what this experience was, but also about who I was as a possibly independent version of myself living another life.:confused:


It’s quite plausible that you have a house of your own in 4D. One thing I know is that in all the levels of 4D the currency, which is the same as the food, is awareness or life-energy or “light” – or whatever else it is that we create when we meditate or raise our consciousness. I'm not so sure you'd be living an entire separate life in 4D, though. Your 3D life would demand much input from your 4D part into the 3D life -- which in any case features 4D emotions and 5D thoughts.

It’s still humorous to me how in 4D and 5D I’m so very popular (and sexy), which seems to be the case only because I’m rich there, and that seems to amount to the fact that I give off a strong “light” there. In 4D and 5D, fat is beautiful, so to speak. Anybody with sufficient awareness to consciously astral travel even once – or, indeed, to be interested in the issues discussed in this Forum – is likely to be rich and popular in those regions also, and for similar reasons. About eighteen months after I first started astral traveling, a clairvoyant asked me if I realised I had dozens of people in 4D following me everywhere – I assume so that they could get more “light” or learn about how I managed to do it. I took a look, and found he was right. At the time I had a very aware ladyfriend, and I noticed she had a similar entourage all of her own. It’s a good idea not to have such an entourage. I seemed to manage to get rid of mine. Don’t know how.

I wouldn’t worry too much about whether or to what extent one may be dreaming rather than consciously astral traveling at this stage. I’d suggest taking all remembered dreams as astral travel, initially, because that seems to work for people who go on to develop their OB skills further. The trouble is, no-one seems to know exactly how, and to what extent, memory and awareness are interconnected. But we do know that two of the things that happen during REM sleep are that we “file away” into memory and emotionally “process” everything that happened in the last day, and also REM sleep is the main time when we dream or astral travel.

[TraineeHuman]

Mellen-Thomas Benedict
stated that via OBE you can visit every place in the Universe ...
I'm aware that from 4D and higher one can access some information about, and some experience of, everything in the physical universe, and you can get some kind of true answer to any meaningful question. I don't believe that information or that answer will normally be fully complete, though.

... Here are some of highlights of what he learned while on the "Other Side:" The Other Side is not all it's cracked up to be-- being in a human body is actually a more optimal way to experience the universe. Black holes at the center of galaxies function as great processors of universal matter-- a total recycling machine. ... Reincarnation occurs automatically, driven by the body which is more powerful and millions of years older than the mind.
"Not all it's cracked up to be"? Well, I guess the 3D world is like a tough boot camp. But the way I see it, by the time you've passed that boot camp, you'll be so fit you'll only need to do maintenance work to keep your fitness at that level. No need to subject yourself to more unnecessary suffering by re-visiting the boot camp.

On the video Benedict says that after death we go back into "light" eventually. In my understanding and experience, what we know as light is kind of the shadow in 3D of something that comes from or is at the highest levels of universality/ enlightenment/ Great Spirit.
My understanding is that we will kind of automatically get returned into a 3D body unless we are totally able to let go of any need to be a "thing" or solid or a particle or whatever it might be that could be a non-abstract noun. That isn't just a conceptual shift -- it's something we have to experience in (the lowest level of) spiritual enlightenment. Unfortunately, to anyone who hasn't experienced this I guess it sounds like it's just a change of how one conceptualises reality.

One needs to be able to dwell and -- yes! -- OB "travel" in 6D for this to be true. I once tried hard to work out how to describe what 6D travel is like. I decided that in some ways the experience could be described as like being an (infinitely thin) point that just goes in every direction and makes all kinds of link-ups everywhere. I came to the conclusion that using the metaphor of a travelling point is misleading to the extent that we think of a point as something passive and limited, and probably not packed full of life. But otherwise I feel that metaphor at least gives one some idea of what 6D is like. No matter of any kind, no "frequency" of any kind, no waves, and no time in the 3D sense -- but lots of change (which is still possible as long as there is such a thing as "difference").
...

It's humanity's manifest destiny to leave Earth and colonize other planets. Within the next 400 years such "star seeding" will begin.
Indeed, it's very hard to stop the coming Golden Age from happening, no matter what Obama and co. may do. And yet, it seems equally hard to find any way of avoiding great chaos and other hardship that the kids and adolescents now growing up will have to live through,one way or another.

[kintun]

1am and cigarette smoke smells in the bathroom. Tough guy.

[TraineeHuman]

1am and cigarette smoke smells in the bathroom. Tough guy.
I won't try again until some time 12 to 15 hours from now. But yes, he is very tough and quite powerful, and he's no fool.

[TraineeHuman]

kintun, I visited the earthbound spirit again today. Whereas last time he tried hard to psychically attack me in any way possible, this time he was trying to hide from me. I did manage to find him, but he was doing his best to stay completely shut off from everything, including me.

Earlier I mentioned two examples of earthbound spirits that not even the most expert people could get rid of. Unfortunately, it seems this spirit is probably one of those. A Forum member has mentioned that Finefeather does “rescue work” in 4D. I don’t know if he can help you, but you might like to send him a PM (a Private Message) and ask him if he has any advice about this.

What happens with people who die as drug addicts or alcoholics is that their 4D body was damaged, not just their physical body. It takes time for the 4D body to naturally heal itself, but eventually it does. It sometimes takes years, and I’ve come across quite a few cases where it took thirty years or more. Only at that point is an earthbound spirit ready to leave. As I say, I have managed to help thousands who were ready to leave to find their way to a higher level, but only because they were ready.

Unfortunately, the 4D and 5D bodies go on living for centuries after physical death. At some point the person sheds them, usually together. They eventually drop off, so to speak, though it’s highly preferable if a person can let go of them in the three days after death. I call the 4D and 5D bodies “the personality” or, if you like, “the ego”. Many clairvoyants have noticed that the world is full of dead personalities. For example, there are some closed-in locations where there were very fierce battles, and clairvoyants have seen columns of dead soldiers who spend most of the day marching around and around in formation – from a battle that was fought in that place centuries ago.

Getting back to what can be done about your “lodger”. One thing you can try is to psychically “clean out” your house, and especially the bathroom. The way to do that is to in your mind create a kind of whirlwind of pure white or pure gold energy. Imagine the energy going around and around in the room, going through everything there, and in a clockwise direction. Imagine that whirlwind getting stronger and stronger and bigger and bigger, until it covers the whole room. Eventually, you send it up into the sky. The idea here is to create such positive, happy, higher D energy that your lodger won’t feel comfortable there, because the energy in low 4D where he lives is dark and heavy and rather sad.

Some other methods are as follows. Sprinkle Epsom salts and sea salt everywhere, throwing it in every direction (especially in the bathroom). Burn Epsom salts, and try frankincense too. Burn dry leaves and fill the house with smoke, then of course open the doors and windows to let the smoke out.

If you can find someone who is expert in Chinese or Tibetan feng shui, I know they have methods for creating a protective energy grid around the walls of a house or room, and also special mixtures you can spray or rub in a line around all the walls inside and on the front door, and that can be very effective in keeping all energies that you don’t want out, and encouraging them to move away.

I would also suggest that you try not to throw anger or fear at the lodger. That will just make him stronger. (There has been a huge amount of what I regard as paranoid discussion on this Forum about such things as “loosh” and the idea that negative spiritual beings and entities “feed off” the negative emotions of humans. I’m not aware of the slightest shred of evidence that that’s true at all, so until there’s actual evidence I don’t accept it as “knowledge”. I can think of a number of phenomena which might be misinterpreted as such “negative feeding”, but I stress misinterpreted.)

[kintun]

Thank you, again TH, for your help and advice. I was doing something similar to the whirlwind you suggest, but I guess this poor guy needs more work. I will put some salts and keep using the octagon, which seems to push him away.
I'll write to silentfeathers to see if he (or she) can help me.
Cheers!

[TraineeHuman]

There has been some discussion of psychic attack on the Forum, so I’d like to make some comments about my recent experiences with kintun’s lodger. When a person dies, or they live only in 4D or higher, their consciousness isn’t mostly taken up with “unconsciously” keeping the heart beating and the digestive and immune systems working and so on. A being in 4D can therefore see more things more clearly.

These days I don’t believe in any kind of direct psychic attack on anyone or anything anywhere. But as I write I have a piece of small glass lodged in the lower part of my right big toe which is proving very hard to remove, and is right on a major vein there. It’s been quite painful. Without going into details, I consider this happened as a direct result of kintun’s lodger striking back at me, because he felt I was out to destroy his home and his entire world. I had unwittingly put myself in that position.

It would have been much better if I had been able to find something much more along the lines of judo (and of “everybody obviously wins”) – even though I was trying to primarily use psychic healing, which is indeed one type of judo-like strategy.

Judo, aikido, and many martial arts are, I believe, based on principles of non-resistance – rather like Ghandi’s non-resistance, in certain ways.

This is why in probably my next post I’ll continue to describe some of the fundamentals of meditation. I’m doing this always with special emphasis on what “letting go” means, if you’ll pardon what by now maybe almost sounds like a cliché. I’m doing so because “letting go” is equally important – in my experience – for OB travel as it is for meditation. Also because meditation is useful in itself, including being useful for anyone learning OB travel.

[TraineeHuman]

Getting back to the subject of meditation, we are all already familiar with and skilled in concentration. As I have said, such a skill is necessary before one can properly learn proper meditation or OB travel.

There is a second type of inner exercise which traditionally has often been known as a form of meditation. This is the activity of just watching, observing your thoughts and impulses as they come up, while “standing back” from them. This activity, which can also be called “self-observation”, is a way of getting to know what is really going on inside of you. One well-known form of it in the West is Freud’s method of “free association” while lying down on a couch. Another is writing from the “stream of consciousness”, which is particularly associated with James Joyce but applies to much creative writing generally. Since the late nineteenth century it has also been a major influence in all areas of the fine arts, and it, or other things closely connected with it, are sometimes given names such as “expressionism” or “impressionism” or “jazz” or “improvisation”.

Ideally, in our own best interests, we should all be practicing self-observation as far as practicable all the time – or whenever we get reminded -- when we aren’t meditating in the sense that I prefer to use that term. One reason for doing so is that it gives us an OB view of our lives – the point of view of “spirit”, that I mentioned particularly in posts #102, #112, #113 and #119. It gives us two levels instead of one: looking out but also looking in at the same time.

I wonder how many have ever noticed that there are a number of layers to the thoughts incessantly and mechanically running through the mind – unless we learn to effectively stop them or ignore them through what I call meditation.

Let me describe what I have observed the most superficial layer of those thoughts to be. It’s what psychologists call a “cognitive loop”, because it keeps replaying like a tape. The length of the loop seems to be exactly two minutes 56 seconds, in everyone. Interestingly, in the world of pop music it apparently wasn’t until the Beatles released a pop song some time in the sixties that any commercial pop songs were ever longer than 2’56” – or shorter.

The thoughts in that loop are all about survival. As you come up to, say, a traffic light if you are walking, the loop will be changed slightly to include a couple of thoughts to do with checking that there isn’t a car coming from somewhere that may not manage to stop in time. But the rest of the loop will usually repeat many times. It will include much about one’s plans for the rest of the day, and ensuring one has done such things as any necessary shopping, etc. Many of the thoughts are also related to one’s social survival. What impression did one make in the last day on the people one interacted with? Everything in the loop is to do with one’s physical and social survival.

In my next post I’ll describe the other, deeper layers of thinking that go on in the mind. After that I’ll talk more about meditation because that involves liberation from slavery to thinking.

[kintun]

Sorry to hear about your toe...:(

I would like to share with all of you my joy, because last night I had my first OBE...
I felt very calm and relaxed and managed to travel to another country to visit a friends house. I didn't see her because when I appeared in her backyard I started planning my next move and suddenly I felt as if I was being pulled back from the floor and then woke up in my body again.
A summary of the experience would be:
-it took me a couple of hours to feel my body shaking.
-I imagined I was a balloon growing bigger and bigger and suddenly I was out.
- I didn't feel anything while getting OB
- I saw my hands, walked around the bedroom, started singing (!!) As I felt so delighted.
- looked out through the window (beautiful scene)
- closed my eyes and said that I wanted to be in my friends house
- opened my eyes and there I was.

I Did ask my guardian angel to be there with me...I saw green and pink-purple lights around me when just got out of my body. All the time I felt very calm, joyful and safe. Like a kid with a new toy.

Well, thank you all for your testimonials and tips...everything helped me to get this incredible experience. As TH says, I will keep on practicing and practicing, to get the most of it and grow.....

Love to all!!

[TraineeHuman]

The types of thoughts which interfere in meditation, particularly for the beginner at meditation, come from the cognitive loop described in my last post. This is the “survival tape” that keeps running on automatic replay in our head after every 2 minutes 56 seconds like some radio that’s been left on. Although it never stops, one of the first hurdles in learning to meditate is to learn how to ignore this tape. By learning to ignore it, we also learn to control, and be freed from slavery to, thoughts in general. We learn to by and large make thoughts our servants rather than our controllers. As we learn to go deeper in meditation, the strength of that freedom from slavery to thoughts increases.

No doubt this has a close correspondence to the fact that 15% or so of the population is unhypnotisable. It should be obvious that before one practices astral travel one should learn how to “turn the volume down” on the survival tape at least. This is because in 4D one instantly travels to wherever and whatever one thinks of.

For the record, there are some deeper layers of thinking that goes on inside us. I have observed that there is another cognitive loop that seems to run just a little deeper inside. That is the “security/identity” tape. It seems to keep reciting certain details regarding your self-image, what type of person you consider you are, what you consider your state of physical and financial health is, what others admire you for, and so on. The contents of this tape can get changed considerably from one situation to another. By contrast, the survival tape undergoes at best very minor changes from one replay to the next – though major parts will also often have become different after one day or more.

A deeper major layer involves our unconscious re-running of memories of past painful experiences. We usually don’t even realise we are subsconsciously doing this. In this case the thoughts are intertwined with strong emotions, but they are stuck thoughts, fixed ideas about ourselves and the world.

These are by no means the only layers of thoughts occurring inside us. But there seems to be an alternative “urban myth” that the survival tape is all the thought there is, and that it’s possible to turn that tape off completely, as distinct from learning to ignore it.

In my next post I’d like to run through a few basics about concentration, just in case that’s helpful to someone, because again, it also applies to OB travel.

Notice also that the types of meditation practices designed to develop and build from awareness as distinct from concentration – such as watching-the-breath – still rely on concentration at certain points. For instance, in the watching-the-breath practice one needs to briefly concentrate on each in-breath and out-breath as it starts. And if one is saying “Peace” to quieten down the thoughts, one is concentrating on the meaning of that word.

[TraineeHuman]

Concentration of various kinds is a prerequisite for awareness.

Let me try to explain with an example. Let’s say we have reason to believe there is such a thing as the HS, but we haven’t consciously experienced it as yet. We can’t be consciously aware of it until we consciously know and see that it has turned up. Until that time, all we can do is concentrate on the idea or the feeling or the concept or the gut intuition of what the HS may be like. For now, we have to put all our eggs in the concentration basket until some awareness of the right kind starts to blossom.

So, learning to concentrate skillfully and strongly is very important for our advancement in a situation like this. There are many, many relevant things that can be said about how concentration works, but for this post I just want to describe how it works together with awareness in both OB experience and meditation.

Meditation, as I experience it, is (eventually) a journey into higher and higher levels. Let’s say each dimension has some seven levels within it. Then meditation is an express journey into higher and higher levels within dimensions and into higher and higher dimensions. But it depends on concentration in the following way.

Let’s say that through meditation we have learnt how to keep our thinking (5D) and emoting (4D) fairly still and calm. Then, in order to experience whatever lies above these, we need to hold that calmness still. And the way we hold anything still is, we use concentration. We just concentrate on calmness. Only then can we get more and more glimpses of whatever lies beyond, which in this case is the 6D world.

As I mentioned in my initial posts, in meditation, after the beginning stages, we are so absorbed in climbing ever higher we don’t properly stop to look at the scenery on whatever level we’re at. In OBEs, however, we do initially attempt to go sightseeing in the tradition of all tourists. But in both cases, the mechanism for climbing to a higher level always involves using concentration. And that concentration is always of a kind that holds whatever is at the lower level still. For instance, in the SOBT material (for which thanks to Raf) the exercises for initially separating from the 3D body all involve concentrating on certain simple actions involving the 4D body while the 3D body is kept still, such as rubbing the 4D hands together. Even though we don’t know at first what rubbing 4D hands together is like, we concentrate on it and voila!

[TraineeHuman]

All spiritual traditions have used many specialized forms of concentration. Following on from my previous post, though, it should be clear why I prefer to use concentration only as a boat. That boat should be thrown away once it has taken you to the shore of awareness of some particular kind. Then you need only flow with the awareness, and can forget about that particular boat. And through different varieties of concentration you can develop more and more awarenesses, and indeed greater overall awareness.

In the Zen tradition there is a strong emphasis on the necessity of “one-pointedness.” One-pointedness really means putting yourself totally into whatever you are doing. Although it’s a type of concentration because it involves focusing your attention on nothing else but the activity at hand, it’s also a very holistic thing. This is because it involves you uniting everything inside you and also being fully united with the task you are concentrating on. To me, this is probably the most important form of concentration. Actually it’s concentration that merges into awareness even as you do it.

Following on from my previous post, though, I’d like to mention that traditionally there are beginner forms of meditation which involve concentrating on one point of one’s body or energy field. Each such point is a gateway to certain kinds of awareness. You just sit quietly and initially grounded, and just concentrate on that point. The point I would like to recommend to anyone interested in developing their OBE skills is the one known as the oversoul (point).

This is a chakra whose center is located approximately seven or eight inches above the center of the top of your head. It is sometimes called “the silver chakra” or “the diamond chakra”. This is the chakra where universality is converted into particularity, and through which you are joined with everything and everyone else in the multiverse. It is the center of our awareness of peace.

Concentrating on it liberates you from attachment to the body sense and enables all your lower levels of consciousness to meet with your higher D parts. Not only that. it allows the consciousness from your higher D parts to descend more fully into all your lower parts, in a sense for the first time opening your lower faculties and centers properly.

As I said in posts #295 and #299, and as AwakeInADream said in post #297, this descent is what it’s all about. “Descension”, not “ascension”.

In her thread “Enlightenment: practical steps”, Sepia suggests concentrating on the middle of the head, where the mid-head chakra and the pineal gland and the hypothalamus are located. If I understand her correctly, it seems to me Sepia believes that concentrating on the mid-head will open up intuitive faculties and skills. But I suspect she may be basing that on her own limited experience. As far as I understand, I’m afraid, the ancient meditation traditions acknowledge that concentration on the oversoul is what much more strongly activates the intuitive faculties and all that lies in 6D and higher, and also brings it down to where we are at. Concentration on the pineal gland area does open one’s inner vision and inner mind perhaps more dramatically, but doesn’t integrate it with the Great Spirit. As far as I understand, there is a danger of getting trapped in one’s own inner visions and personal inner mind-space. Although there are symbols – like giant pine cones -- for the pineal gland in St Peters Square, there are also symbols for the oversoul. Obelisks are just one example of this.

Another area sometimes traditionally concentrated on is the heart chakra and the thymus gland (and the physical heart). Because our educational system doesn’t develop emotional intelligence the way it develops intellectual intelligence, I’m sure this can be a great exercise in day-to-day life. Whenever you are dealing with a customer, a client, a co-worker, a relative, or whoever, try concentrating on your heart center. That will slightly increase your ability to put a more caring and affectionate slant on your interactions.

[soleil]

Hi TH, i want to add i have been watching this thread more closely lately, because although i have not been actively attempting OBE; i have been actively/24/7 working on my meditation.
i wanted to share, something that was shared in one of christian's posts, a link for a carlos casteneda site discussing shamanism, and being a spiritual warrior. he touches in on clearing of the tonal, and preparing the gap for the nagual. i believe in this same context we can apply these teachings to OBE. im sure the similarities are there. :) http://essential-knowledge.net

on another note, i wonder if you would be interested in introducing or discussing healing (holistically)? thank you in advance TH!

and again, on another note: i have read the posts related to kintun, and have a few questions about these neg's and neg entities. are there any ways to 'know' whether or not your abode/home has entities present, even though it may not be all that obvious? my house feels as though there isnt much going on, but at night i do get the typical indications, sharp pains on foot, headaches, very sore wrists (on occasion) etc. how can we tell if we have entities on us? (if any?) this is for those of us ready to know and willing to do something about it. :)

:hug:

[TraineeHuman]

i have read the posts related to kintun, and have a few questions about these neg's and neg entities. are there any ways to 'know' whether or not your abode/home has entities present, even though it may not be all that obvious? my house feels as though there isnt much going on, but at night i do get the typical indications, sharp pains on foot, headaches, very sore wrists (on occasion) etc. how can we tell if we have entities on us? (if any?) this is for those of us ready to know and willing to do something about it. :)

:hug:

True logic means putting first things first. (That’s a very insightful quote from the late Barry Long.) So, the question is probably as much one of how far do you want to go and how practical is it. And do you really want to kind of wrap yourself up with very clean energy and kind of keep yourself overprotected? This is all a more complex question than it seems.

One form of protection is simply to raise your consciousness, your awareness, to a higher and higher level. That’s not foolproof, but it will make negative energies and entities and so on tend to fall off, if you’re dedicated enough to that noble goal. In the New Testament there’s the story that Jesus cast out a demon from someone and a dozen fresh demons came and said: “Look, an empty house,” and took occupancy of that person. I believe the moral of that story was that the person needed to get stronger, to be willing right then to be healed and to get healed right then. Presumably, since Jesus was there, that person wasn’t willing to face their weaknesses that allowed the demon in in the first place.

While we’re on casting out of demons, I’d like to mention that “hitchhikers” are very hard to identify quickly, and also, in my experience, very hard to get rid of. And even after they have been gotten rid of – as I have done, but not before I was fifty, in the case of my biggest and strongest “hitchhiker” – they have still left their mark. They have been integrated into your whole personality and psyche and being for so long, their influence reverberates inside you long after they have been kicked out.

Their influence in some way remains a part of “you”, much like in certain ways you remain a copy of your parents. The reason why you remain such a copy is that it doesn’t mater if you manage to peel the “onion” of your personality and your past back to its very deepest layer. The fact is, when you were two or three you copied the style of how to be a human person straight from your parents, because they were the only models you had around. And that style remains a part of you even after you have spin-dried it of all rubbish.

But also, we are here on this planet to eventually discover, maybe over many lifetimes, what all our weaknesses are and what all the traps are. Certainly, we want to avoid falling all the way into many of the traps, and to avoid all unnecessary suffering. But a little short-lived suffering that helps us learn quickly can be right suffering – just as long as we don’t use that as an excuse for playing the victim.

Sorry, but I've hardly even yet begun to answer your question more directly and practically, teradactyl, so I’ll try to do so in my next post.

[AwakeInADream]

Last Monday night I was trying unsuccessfully to go OBE and I fell asleep, but I did have an interesting side effect.

I was in and out of consciousness and I heard my own voice talking to me like an inner dialogue except I wasn't in control of it. This voice(my own voice) spoke for what seemed like hours whilst I listened intently. I thought at the time that what I was saying to myself was very important but when I woke up I couldn't remember anything I had heard.

The only part I do remember is what I got up in the middle of the night to write down, which is two numbers and a name: "421-14 David Icke".

I am reading David Icke's book "Remember Who You Are" at the moment, so I took 421 to be a page number from that book, and that page does have quite a positive message that I guess I needed to hear.

Also whilst listening to the voice, I got the sense that the information I was hearing was a kind of download.

So is this voice my higher self?

Or is it one of those mind loops playing nonsense back at me?

Or worse, is it not ME at all?

(I have heard the odd sentence in the past whilst meditating, but it has never gone on for hours before like this)

[TraineeHuman]

i have read the posts related to kintun, and have a few questions about these neg's and neg entities. are there any ways to 'know' whether or not your abode/home has entities present, even though it may not be all that obvious? my house feels as though there isnt much going on, but at night i do get the typical indications, sharp pains on foot, headaches, very sore wrists (on occasion) etc. how can we tell if we have entities on us? (if any?) this is for those of us ready to know and willing to do something about it. :)

Here’s one of my favorite methods of clearing out the negative energies in a room or house. I’ve already described it about four times on this Forum or in the preceding Camelot/Avalon Forums (2008-2010), but obviously there are quite a few newer members, so here goes.

This exercise is probably easier in the evening, or when you need to have the lights on. You simply close your eyes but attempt to look around while keeping the eyelids shut. Obviously an exercise for turning on some of your 4D vision, right?

You simply turn your head very slowly and “look” at all parts of the room. Wherever you see a darker area, simply keep looking at it. By looking at it you are actually using some (6D) awareness. The light – the power -- of that awareness will quite simply dissolve (the 4D part of) the darkness, and you’ll notice it turn lighter and lighter.

Usually there’ll be more darkness around ceilings, and also around any electrical appliances. There may also be darkness around, say, a particular cupboard or item of furniture. Usually that means that someone has some kind of emotional issue relating to it. (How to remove the unwelcome energies fully out of 4D, rather than dissolving their grip on your living space, is a whole other topic, and something of an “advanced” one.)

If you have a quartz watch or a digital clock radio, you’ll notice that each of these emits a big field of darkness that you can’t remove. My suggestion in that case is, don’t sleep with any part of your body within thirteen feet of a digital clock radio (or within twenty plus feet of an electric fuse/switch box), unless you have an appropriate electromagnetic shielding device. I don’t like some varieties of these, but for people in another country I don’t currently have a mailing address of a good supplier, I’m afraid.

Also, don’t wear a quartz watch. Get a mechanical watch instead. And don’t wear or carry a mobile or ipad of any sort unless you have an electromagnetic shielding device firmly attached to it.

There is some advice on psychic cleansing techniques in the links mentioned in posts #208 and #209 of the members’ only thread “Re: psychic attacks – solutions, comments and ideas”.

You can also use the closed-eye looking technique to scan your body for dark areas. Unfortunately, the places where negative entities maybe camped get tangled up with areas of physical unwellness or weakness. All my experience of psychic healing is that however much I may concentrate purely on facilitating a physical healing of a person, it always turns out that 99.9% of the problem was ultimately an emotional/psychological one, and not physical at all. So, I guess you could certainly try to psychically heal the darkest areas on your body.

Another method, which is a little expensive so don’t anyone go overboard on it, is to throw away old clothes, old furniture, old possessions of any kind. These pick up and hold cording energies that make it easier for others to cord onto you and subconsciously exert some level of control over you. Physical cleaning also helps, though most of the chemicals available at your supermarket are so harmful to the health it’s better not to use them. Better to use things like baking soda, vinegar, borax. In one of Dr Oz’s shows he listed ten things to avoid ever using if you want to grow old less quickly. The list include detergents and soap, even. (I don’t use any soap when I shower, though I do use shampoo and conditioner. There’s normally no purpose served by using soap – except to make your body more acidic, and therefore weaker.)

[TraineeHuman]

Last Monday night I was trying unsuccessfully to go OBE and I fell asleep, but I did have an interesting side effect.

I was in and out of consciousness and I heard my own voice talking to me like an inner dialogue except I wasn't in control of it. This voice(my own voice) spoke for what seemed like hours whilst I listened intently. I thought at the time that what I was saying to myself was very important but when I woke up I couldn't remember anything I had heard.

The only part I do remember is what I got up in the middle of the night to write down, which is two numbers and a name: "421-14 David Icke".

I am reading David Icke's book "Remember Who You Are" at the moment, so I took 421 to be a page number from that book, and that page does have quite a positive message that I guess I needed to hear.

Also whilst listening to the voice, I got the sense that the information I was hearing was a kind of download.

So is this voice my higher self?

Or is it one of those mind loops playing nonsense back at me?

Or worse, is it not ME at all?

(I have heard the odd sentence in the past whilst meditating, but it has never gone on for hours before like this)

Meaning exists in all dimensions, but words, pictures and symbols don’t exist beyond 5D (but, e.g., lights do, as do various more abstract kinds of things). That would explain why you were receiving something with profound meaning but couldn’t put it into words that you could make out. A common experience, particularly for “beginners”. But with an unusual twist in that obviously nothing was going to stop you from trying to put into words.

As we’ve both mentioned already, AwakeInADream, ultimately the adventure of being in the physical world is all about “descension” and not “ascension”. Bringing Heaven down to Earth, ultimately (but by gradually “Heavenising” the Earth). I would see the skill of learning to eventually put as much of the meaning as possible into comprehensible words (or pictures) as one of the most important skills for bringing that “descent” about. Keeping a diary by your bed would probably help.

Obviously you have some clairaudient ability. About 50% of people do. Personally, I have never experienced any message from a being or entity I was unable to clairvoyantly see, except from my guardian angels. Or else it has been from someone I knew and could identify in every case, and was usually a message one sentence or less in length. So, based on my experience, I’d say the communication was coming from one of your guardian angels, or certainly with their approval. If your head was full of things David Icke was saying because you were reading his book, it’s quite to be expected that part of the message would be communicated in those terms, to make it easier for you to hear since your attention was already “tuned to” the sorts of ideas Icke was expressing.

As far as I’m aware, it’s normally impossible to put a voice inside my head unless I’m open to it. This is mainly a matter of getting to the point where you can’t be hypnotized – which apparently a good 10% of the general population have reached anyway. I did once experience a voice in my head but it was coming from my mother’s favorite sister a month after my mother had died. At the time I was visiting the home of that sister’s daughter. I kept hearing a voice about ten times in an hour that sounded like the daughter was quite loudly calling my name from the next room, rather than her long-departed mother, whom it was in fact coming from. But at the time I was very open to receiving the energies in the daughter’s house, as it was the first time I had met her.

The fact that the communication to you went on for so long, AwakeInADream, tells me it wasn’t from your HS. In my experience, the HS communicates more briefly. If my own experiences are anything to go by, what you experienced was indeed a “download”, and came from your guardian angels. And they don’t bother communicating for as long as two hours unless it’s something where they want to make sure you definitely manage to get the message. I would take the message, at least tentatively, as important pure truth that you need to utilize in your life right now. It probably wasn’t easy for them to get you to hear their communication. That also indicates it was urgent and important.

Everything you've described suggests the "voice" was coming from 6D. Your mind loops don't come from there.

Maybe it has something to do with what fundamentalist Christians call "speaking in tongues", but they recognise that anyone who does so is coming froma good space.

It’s quite interesting the way our HS communicates a message to us all each night in almost every dream, during which it takes us up to the 5D/6D border. Nearly all of us nearly always completely fail to correctly interpret those messages on a conscious level, even if we manage to remember the details of our dreams. And yet, the HS doesn’t ever give up. It keeps socking it to us by presenting the issues we most don’t want to face right now. The reason the HS doesn’t give up must be that to some degree the messages do filter through to some subconscious part of us.

[AwakeInADream]

Thanks TH!:) I really hope it was a guardian angel, I don't really like the idea of my higher self having a totally separate mind/personality.

I think I know what the numbers may mean now, and it may be to do with brainwaves. I have been looking into sound waves and their effects on consciousness for a while now.
Theta brainwaves are about 7Hz but the ear can't hear that low so the only way to play 7Hz into the brain would be to use bi-neural beats, but I've thought of another way to do it.

If I take the number 421 that I received to be 421 beats per minuet or 421 BPM and create a simple drum beat with it, then rather than being a very fast drum beat, if you take a different perspective you can also see it as acting like a very slow wave. In fact 420 BPM would give 7 beats per second or 7Hz. The beat becomes a wave, and a bi-neural beat is still just a beat at the end of the day. I've been playing around with beats of various speeds today, and it does seem to have some effect on perception.

I've also noticed that listening to certain droning sound waves that interact with each other causes illusions in perception, as certain patterns stand out that aren't really there, but also that you can change these illusions just by thinking about them, and in this way perhaps train your brain rather like bio-feedback, and learn how to still your mind on a much deeper level.
(This is like the 'Tick Tock' phenomenon where the beats are exactly the same, but your mind tells you one is louder or of a different quality than the other, but you can learn to control the illusion)

This approach also relates to a vision I had a few months back upon waking (to a mild panic attack, the vision was the result of my calling for help) where I saw a triangle with a circle on each corner containing a frequency. I knew that the result of this magical chord would be to eradicate fear forever in the listener.

421-14 could also be seen as 4Hz 21Hz and 14Hz (good harmonic interactions here) which are close to brainwave frequencies, and perhaps this may be the key to releasing us from what David Icke calls the 'Saturn-Moon Matrix' (wishful thinking).

This brings up the question:

Do you think that things like bi-neural beats and maybe shamanic drumming may help towards having an OBE?

[TraineeHuman]

I don't really like the idea of my higher self having a totally separate mind/personality.
Your HS doesn’t have a personality – other than your own personality, plus quite likely some other personalities of human beings from probably other timelines.

I think I know what the numbers may mean now ...
If I take the number 421 that I received to be 421 beats per minute ... you can also see it as acting like a very slow wave ... and it does seem to have some effect on perception.
I’m afraid that sounds very cerebral to me. There's probably at least some grain of truth there. But your dreams etc are normally coming from an almost 6D level -- beyond words and concepts. After a few seconds of you trying to understand the message, the message will get drowned out with misinfo coming from your mechanical mind as distinct from your intuition.

AIAD, maybe you’d like to try to “get” the message again by using the exercise in post #24 -- and strictly no mind chatter during and even after the 30 second pause! And please keep it simple. Usually, complexity gets added in by the mechanically thinking mind, which wipes out the insight that was there, because the mechanical mind doesn't have much insight to speak of.
I'm sure part of the message is that you have no cause to worry as much as you currently are doing.

Do you think that things like bi-neural beats and maybe shamanic drumming may help towards having an OBE?
Absolutely. they get a person temporarily out of a state of slavery to (mechanical) thinking. To have an OBE you need to let go to the unknown. The mechanical mind keeps trying to hook you back into the known.

[TraineeHuman]

i wanted to share, something that was shared in one of christian's posts, a link for a carlos casteneda site discussing shamanism, and being a spiritual warrior. he touches in on clearing of the tonal, and preparing the gap for the nagual. i believe in this same context we can apply these teachings to OBE. im sure the similarities are there. :) http://essential-knowledge.net

Historically, shamanism was largely superceded by meditation traditions in some areas in Asia over the last ten thousand years or more. Though I guess in the case of China that didn’t begin to happen until the arrival of Buddhism there around the third century AD. Maybe shamanism could be a more useful and fruitful path for some individuals today, though I have many unanswered questions and some doubts.

I understand shamanism is a path to joy and peace and experience of realms higher than the physical. That’s fine. But as far as I know it usually involves the use of drugs. This Forum has Guidelines which largely preclude the discussion of, and certainly preclude the promotion of, drug experiences. As I understand it, drug use is a form of self-abuse, not in the sense of masturbation but because it is always a poisoning of the body. (Being drunk actually is the same thing as alcoholic poisoning, and so on.) I’m afraid I don’t consider such things to be necessary or desirable today, much as I don’t see self-flagellation as a good idea. We aren’t peasants living and working seven days a week in some semi-desert where nothing much happens. Indeed, at Avalon the word “awake “ is usually used primarily to refer to being awake politically to what is currently going on on the planet. I don’t consider that any Avalonian needs to in effect attack themselves through taking drugs of any kind. I also understand that traditional shamans such as the Toltecs and Castaneda’s teacher admit that the purpose of the drug use is and traditionally has been to initially quite deliberately create destructive effects in the student.

In my OB journeys I have seen several “worlds” or “levels” or whatever which were totally made of hallucinations. These worlds were all quite insane, but I did find it fun to explore them a few times, much like watching an interesting movie in a virtual reality suit. Even though they put my mind in a twist. As far as I can gather, these worlds are quite similar to the “better” experiences a person can have from hallucinatory drugs. The difference was that I was in control all the time.

But I’m skeptical about the value of seeing and kind of living by such “movies”. For a start, you would need to be cured of a hopefully mild but real form of insanity. I guess the traditional shamans were master psychologists and could therefore eventually make their apprentices whole. But if someone attempts similar practices from reading the internet but doesn’t have a master psychologist watching over them all day – well, I’m worried about all sorts of possible dangers. Even a simple practice such as fasting, for instance, can lead to insanity quite quickly if carried out with a lack of detailed knowledge of how to manage it.

If there’s anyone out there who’s willing to give us an explanation of how forms of shamanism not based on or initiated through drug usage or self-torture are valid and safe paths to the higher dimensions, that would be very fascinating to read. (My apologies. I'm very busy with some obligations this weekend, so I haven't managed to find the post by Christian you're referring to, teradactyl.) I know some do follow that path, and there have been references to books and websites and so on in the Forum and also in the archives of the old Camelot/Avalon.

I’m also quite aware that in many of the higher-dimensional worlds that I’ve frequented in the past before I incarnated on this planet, the consciousness-raising practices were far more similar to white magic or a drug-free version of shamanism than they were to meditation practices. Then again, in any 6D world one is mostly living beyond time as we know it in 3D (though not beyond change, for instance). So, everything is so different there anyway. I also have the strongest feelings and some memories that the life we live in the 3D world as we know it is a kind of cheap mockery of what life in 3D was meant to be like, and is like on many other 3D planets, and was in the past on this planet and will be in the future for the human race.

To see all the shamanic exercises promoted on the website you've quoted, teradactyl, I’d need to purchase some of the material. As I haven’t seen all of it, I’m in no position to judge it. Over the years I’ve learnt all sorts of skills from all sorts of sources. The skills others were selling or teaching were almost never half as wonderful or universally effective as promised. But they were still something.

Carlos Castaneda made a fortune and most of the ten or so books he wrote not only went paperback but topped best seller lists in the seventies and probably the early eighties. That was the time when many people in the alternative movement were regularly using marijuana or cocaine, thanks to the concerted efforts of some alphabet agencies and the elite.

His writings seem to me to be a strange mixture. Quite frequently he briefly brings up pieces of advanced or very advanced knowledge relating to spiritual or psychic experience or reality, knowledge that I imagine very few would really understand the full significance of. I’m sure much of this did come from possibly a small number of interviews with the shaman he called Don Juan Matus.

There were also some mistakes or misinterpretations. For instance, he repeatedly made a big deal about how Matus had allegedly claimed “your death” is supposedly a dark spot at the left edge of the middle of your auric field, waiting for you. I’m pretty sure Matus never claimed any such thing, because I happen to know it’s not true. Certainly, to go astral traveling you can exit through the solar plexus, for instance. And certainly, it’s true that life and death are as inseparable as breathing in and breathing out. Maybe Castaneda confused possibly these truths plus several others I can think of to come up with that huge dark spot, that sounds so dramatic. It doesn’t help that Castaneda inserted lies or deluded exaggerations into his writings. For instance, at the end of his second book he needs a big climax, so he ends it by jumping into a physical abyss, apparently into certain death. Or, for instance, in two books he describes sorcery fellow students as running along walls and eventually on a ceiling. I consider it’s also unfortunate that his writing style seems so emotionally immature and so intent on creating exaggerated drama and excitement and making everything seem exotic. Nevertheless, Castaneda did do his best to follow the “path” he had been taught up until his death.

I had written up till this point and saved my draft without posting it and gone to bed. As I was almost falling asleep, who should come to visit but Carlos Castaneda (who died in 1998). He looked reasonably content, and seemed to feel that overall he had done something truly worthwhile with his life. I felt very glad for him. He was very laid back, yet at the same time very open, and looked very unshockable. There was something extremely attractive about how patient he now is, and also about the gentleness he now has. He asked me the following question slowly and very clearly and proudly: “What are you made of?” He repeated it a second time. Both times his intent wordlessly conveyed the message that the answer to that question obviously justified everything he had done – completely justified it without reservation, in his mind. He knew I knew the answer to that question in his system is “the nagual,” which is basically the HS, and certainly at least it is that which is OB. What he obviously meant by this was that as far as he was concerned, everything he did through his books served to continually point to the transcendental, to the HS.

[AwakeInADream]

Hi TH, i want to add i have been watching this thread more closely lately, because although i have not been actively attempting OBE; i have been actively/24/7 working on my meditation.
i wanted to share, something that was shared in one of christian's posts, a link for a carlos casteneda site discussing shamanism, and being a spiritual warrior. he touches in on clearing of the tonal, and preparing the gap for the nagual. i believe in this same context we can apply these teachings to OBE. im sure the similarities are there. :) http://essential-knowledge.net


Thanks Teradactyl!:) I really like this website!:) There is some truth for me there, and already I have seen myself in error.
I like the attitude presented about being a spiritual warrior and that we should more aggressively seek to align ourselves with the HS.

This quote from page two describes me perfectly at the moment and it is almost the same message as page 421 of Icke's book:


How often are you vehemently asserting some non-sense? You don't have time for this display. This, whatever you're doing now, may be your last act on earth. It may very well be your last battle. There is no power which could guarantee that you are going to live one more minute. If this were your last battle on earth, I would say that you are an idiot. You are wasting your last act on earth in some stupid mood.

Yep! I'm totally wasting my time at the moment with mental concepts/processes, as TH also said.

Thank's TraineeHuman!:) I'm going to take your advice and 'go after' the original message again with the exercise in post #24.

I guess I need to be able to hold on to the abstract for much longer, before I will ever be able to bridge Heaven and Earth with it.

I think I'll spend the day quietly, no thinking, no ideation, no distractions, just listening out for my HS. Time is short. Must press on.

[TraineeHuman]

i wonder if you would be interested in introducing or discussing healing (holistically)?
What I meant by “healing wholistically” was to perform healing without any technique. I consider it’s a harmful mistake to suppose there’s a special technique that makes a person a better psychic healer.

Almost everybody, without any training, can heal other people with significant results.

Beforehand you ground yourself strongly and you clear away any negative energies in the space, and in you. You ask for and receive protection for yourself and the client and the space. You get the client to sit in a chair (not too comfortable a chair) two or three meters from you and ask them to close their eyes and imagine they are somewhere peaceful and nice, such as under a shady tree in mid-summer.

I suggest raising your hands to about chest height and pointing the palms towards the client. This is because there are huge chakras in the palms, and these emit the strongest part of the healing energy. But don’t think: “I am sending healing energy through my palms”. Just do it.

I find I can normally access the golden healing light, but you just imagine that healing light and energy is flowing through your hands to wherever the client needs it most. Some kind of healing light and energy will come. Initially, for a few seconds you consciously hold the intention that the client will receive the best healing available to them right now. But then you just let the energy flow, and do your best to keep your thinking mind blank.

Because I have years of experience in energy work – and can telepathically “read” in a general way what a person is thinking and feeling at any time – I do find one thing occurring without any effort on my part. This is that I “see” dark areas, and I let my hands move so that they’re pointing more directly at the dark area(s), and I’ll sometimes walk closer to the client or to one side. In at least ten percent of cases, I “see” an entire half of the client’s energy field – the right half or the left half – as black. I’m sure that isn’t what’s really there, but it’s just a pointer to me to concentrate mainly on healing just that one side of the client’s energy field or body. I never consciously tried to develop this skill of seeing dark areas and directing my hands towards them. It all just happened, and continues to. I do always find myself kind of automatically “filling up” the dark areas with light, and then moving on to the next dark area.

At the end of the healing session (I never go longer than twenty minutes max), once the client leaves you clear up the space and yourself, much like you did before starting the healing.

The only traps I can think of are, firstly, don’t ever somehow absorb the client’s negative energies as if you were a sponge. You stay full of healing light and you keep radiating it out to your client. Secondly, don’t disrespect the boundaries between healer and client, if at all possible. E.g., don’t get involved with your client. Thirdly, if you think or emote anything while doing a healing, you’ll tend to energetically lay a little of that on your client, so do nothing and let your HS flow through and do most of the work.

[Malerogro]

Hi everyone! Thanks so much to all the posters on the thread for sharing their experiences and knowledge. I am relatively new in becoming aware of the dimensions. Dan33 recognized me in another thread as operating out of 5D so that inspired me to delve more deeply into the subject. I do feel particularly at home in the 5th dimension but I have the feeling I skip the fourth in my awareness, or maybe I move through it very quickly without noticing. Any reasons I might be afraid of staying in the fourth or become aware of what is happening there? Do you think it is necessary for me to do so?
I feel like I am wavering sometimes between the third and the fith dimension and to be honoust, that is starting to wear me down. Maybe I can find some more steadfastness (a term Fred Steeves mentioned which stayed with me) when I become more aware of what is happening in the fourth?
This thread provides a lot of exercizes to explore the fourth dimension yet I still feel a reservation to try. Any tips or explanations? Thanks!
Btw, I have not practiced meditation so much yet and have not eperienced full OBE's although I can feel myself moving towards one sometimes. Also when I have been experiencing and operating out of the fifth I need sometime to get my coördination right again in the third dimension. When I get up I stumble or I drop something.
Do you think that meditation and OBE's are necessary roads to take to become aware of the fourth dimensions or are there ways to recognize the fourth dimension more in daily life without resorting to OBE's or meditation?

[Malerogro]

Various people talk about “ascension”. Well, what we need instead is “descension”, if there is such a word. We need a descent of the higher intelligence and light in our higher D parts more fully into our bodies and hearts and minds. That’s what meditation also does, if used properly. Make your light shine more and more strongly – that’s what I want and suggest you to achieve. That’s what meditation can do for you, eventually.

Of course, the more that the veil has been lifted in a general way for you, the more natural, if not easy, it should be for you to separate from the lowest level, which is the physical. That’s because you’ll already have a strong sense, even if maybe not a clear one, of what some higher levels might involve.

I love the proposal of descension! It totally resonates with me :) I think this is what I have been doing so far, learning to recognize the higher dimensions (especialy the fifth) in my heart and mind (not the body so much yet, have to work on that..). This explains my discomfort when people talk about ascension. It seems so far away and I am more a here and now earth person. Maybe my mission is to bring the fifth dimension to the earth. I feel more and more love for the earth and all that is. Unconditional love and deep compassion is where I end all my journeys through everything that is happening right now (with all the feelings involved). At least that is where I personally feel that I should be right now.
Yet like I said I have difficulty experiencing the fourth dimension consciously..

[TraineeHuman]

../ I have not practiced meditation so much yet and have not eperienced full OBE's although I can feel myself moving towards one sometimes. Also when I have been experiencing and operating out of the fifth I need sometime to get my coördination right again in the third dimension. When I get up I stumble or I drop something.
Do you think that meditation and OBE's are necessary roads to take to become aware of the fourth dimensions or are there ways to recognize the fourth dimension more in daily life without resorting to OBE's or meditation?
Hi, Malerogo! "Meditation = concentration" was and is the traditional Indian approach to meditation. The more you learn how to become very intensely concentrated, the more you find ever higher and higher levels to concentrate on.

As I've mentioned in some recent posts, my preference is to flow in awareness once concentration takes me to a level of higher awareness. That is the Zen approach. But you can do it either the Indian way or the Zen way.

Of course, this means you have indeed been learning some level of basic skills in meditation throughout your schooling and education. An infant doesn't have an adult mind yet, so for them "paying attention" means concentration and awareness at the same time.

Although the education system does teach us to concentrate quite well, it doesn't teach us how to apply the concentration "inward" very much. When you'e doing that, you're meditating. But if you don't learn some way to look intensely and accurately at you, how will you ever know whether or not you are OB travelling at a given time?

We all OB travel to upper 5D when we dream each night. But again, the problem is remembering, it's noticing that we're doing it while we're doing it and also afterwards. Practicing OB travel is just practicing ways to notice, and remember.

I'll address some of your other concerns in my next post.

Kind regards,
TH

[Malerogro]

Thanks for your reply!

Although the education system does teach us to concentrate quite well, it doesn't teach us how to apply the concentration "inward" very much. When you'e doing that, you're meditating.
Well that I have been doing a lot throughout my entire life, and in the last 10 years very consciously so. It has been especially useful for me to learn how to look at different aspects of myself through a fifth dimension perspective. I have always looked at the world at large a lot through a fifth dimension perspective of unconditional love and appreciation. Yet sometimes it was hard to keep seeing the people that you love but keep hurting you through that perspective. And it has been especially difficult for me to approach myself that way because I incorporated a lot of negativity from my environment. A breakthrough for me has been to learn to treat myself with unconditional love too and forgive myself as I did the world. So I do concentrate, look inward, and become more aware, yet I do not really sit down and meditate through all the exercises that are proposed throughout this thread. Maybe that is the next step! Looking forward for your next post :)

[AwakeInADream]

I've managed to get a really good dialogue going on between me and my higher self over the last few days, starting off by repeatedly doing the exercise in post #24. After a while I turned it into a kind of walking meditation, I went about my day normally but emptied my mind, and I kept stopping and asking just one question: "What would my higher self do now?", and the answers came immediately. So I followed the will and direction of my higher self for many hours each day, and this has given me a glimpse as to what it would be like to be fully aligned with my higher self permanently. It turns out that my higher self is just like me, only me at my very best. My higher self doesn't smoke (so neither did I for that time), doesn't watch TV and enjoys cleaning! I think that if I carry on doing this for I few hours each day I may just end up being him, and this makes me feel rather excited and hopeful about the future.:)

[TraineeHuman]

Thanks for your reply!

Although the education system does teach us to concentrate quite well, it doesn't teach us how to apply the concentration "inward" very much. When you'e doing that, you're meditating.
Well that I have been doing a lot throughout my entire life, and in the last 10 years very consciously so. It has been especially useful for me to learn how to look at different aspects of myself through a fifth dimension perspective. I have always looked at the world at large a lot through a fifth dimension perspective of unconditional love and appreciation. Yet sometimes it was hard to keep seeing the people that you love but keep hurting you through that perspective. And it has been especially difficult for me to approach myself that way because I incorporated a lot of negativity from my environment. A breakthrough for me has been to learn to treat myself with unconditional love too and forgive myself as I did the world. So I do concentrate, look inward, and become more aware, yet I do not really sit down and meditate through all the exercises that are proposed throughout this thread. Maybe that is the next step! Looking forward for your next post :)
If you are sitting quietly and concentrating carefully on what is “inner” in you, then you are meditating. We get too caught up in special words like “meditation”, and in systematizations. I feel it’s necessary at present for me to make some more comments, probably over a few threads, about how (inward) concentration works. This subject has been intensively researched and explored for centuries in the meditation and the psychotherapeutic traditions and no doubt in shamanism and the magical traditions too.

All inward concentration involves (often subconsciously) concentrating on one point in the body or in the energy field. Mainly, the three possible points are the heart center, the mid-brow or inner-eye center in the center of the head, or the oversoul point above the head. One thing I should make clear before we go further is that first it’s very important to learn to (inwardly) concentrate on the heart center first, until you have kind of mastered doing it from there. Malerogo, I’ll be surprised if you don’t do this most of the time in your self-reflections, even though you may not have consciously noticed. Concentration on this center develops love, though love is not everything. (Understanding is also equally necessary and indispensable as love eventually, and is often even more important.)

Secondly, it eventually becomes very important to learn to inwardly concentrate on the head center. Sepia’s thread, for example, presents a considerable amount of material regarding this. Concentrating on this opens up your inner powers and abilities.

Concentration on the oversoul point is too hard for a beginner, except while they are reading or “thinking” deeply. But descension – with the profound peace and silence entering into and permeating and transforming all the lower centers -- only comes from activation of this point. Such activation only comes after there has been skillful concentration on it. It sounds highly likely, Malerogro, that you have done this to some extent, again (presumably) without consciously noticing.

The way I have described the watching-the-breath meditation (as an example of how meditation works in general) was to treat thoughts as being kind of intruders passing by, in which one learns to pay no interest. But the best way to meditate is to more proactively see where your thoughts are coming from and identifying that they don’t come from yourself anyway. If you can do that, you can still yourself inwardly (for which read “forgive yourself” and “forgive others”, among other things) and throw all the rubbishy thoughts away. Malerogro, it seems to me that you are probably well along the way to doing this already. Don’t worry about the “meditation” label or the “exercise” label. Just keep doing as you do.

[TraineeHuman]

I've managed to get a really good dialogue going on between me and my higher self over the last few days, starting off by repeatedly doing the exercise in post #24. After a while I turned it into a kind of walking meditation, I went about my day normally but emptied my mind, and I kept stopping and asking just one question: "What would my higher self do now?", and the answers came immediately. So I followed the will and direction of my higher self for many hours each day, and this has given me a glimpse as to what it would be like to be fully aligned with my higher self permanently. It turns out that my higher self is just like me, only me at my very best. My higher self doesn't smoke (so neither did I for that time), doesn't watch TV and enjoys cleaning! I think that if I carry on doing this for I few hours each day I may just end up being him, and this makes me feel rather excited and hopeful about the future.:)
Sounds to me like there's some serious "descension" going on!

[TraineeHuman]

Dan33 recognized me in another thread as operating out of 5D so that inspired me to delve more deeply into the subject. I do feel particularly at home in the 5th dimension but I have the feeling I skip the fourth in my awareness, or maybe I move through it very quickly without noticing. Any reasons I might be afraid of staying in the fourth or become aware of what is happening there? Do you think it is necessary for me to do so?
I feel like I am wavering sometimes between the third and the fifth dimension and to be honest, that is starting to wear me down. Maybe I can find some more steadfastness ... when I become more aware of what is happening in the fourth?
I usually skip the fourth and the fifth as well, Malerogro. The fourth and the fifth contain your baggage, your ego. Your baggage is created largely by all your traumatic past. At the time a past traumatic event occurred, by its very nature it seemed gigantic to you and totally crushing and horrible.

In 4D and to a lesser extent in 5D, you may accidentally step (literally) into part of your baggage. In that case it would feel like stepping into hell. Though psychic protection should guide you away from ever doing so.

The other interesting feature of both 4D and 5D is that whatever and wherever you think of, there you are instantly. So, if you should encounter any unpleasant being or entity, their unpleasantness will seem greatly magnified in comparison with how they would seem in 3D. That’s because whatever negative thing they think of, they can bring into manifestation instantly. By the same token, you are equally more powerful in 4D too, and even more so in 5D.

I’m not sure if what you (or Dan33) seem to identify as “5D” is really higher levels of 4D. Although 5D contains forms, it is an abstract world, made of thoughts. Emotions are left behind in the 4D world. That doesn’t mean that “feeling” of some kind doesn’t exist beyond 4D. But emotions don’t.

Another reason for avoiding lower 4D is that it contains many confidence tricksters and also false “heavens” belonging to almost every variety of religion or magic and so on.

For reasons like that, I very rarely go there, except, no doubt, for whizzing through it on the way to more harmonious places. I certainly fail to see any reason why you should or would want to linger in the 4D world, Malerogro, or visit it for very long – except maybe for its uppermost level.

You say you feel you're "wavering" between the third and fifth, or that you lack coordination in the third after visiting the fifth. Both of those things would occur because you aren't grounding yourself sufficiently after returning into the third. There've been a number of posts in this thread about grounding. If what you read there doesn't help you completely, please tell us and I can go into more detail then.

[kintun]

Something else to ponder is that although we move around in a 3D world, our emotions move in a 4D world and our (deeper) thoughts and intellect move in a 5D one. And somebody who is clairvoyant enough will see much of the scenery of the 4D plane without needing to go through the vibrations and travel out of their 3D body. They will see such things as auras around other people, and also energy fields or thought-forms or beings in the 4D world who don’t have any 3D body. I’d like to ask: if such a person can already see what’s in the 4D world, and therefore interact with everything in it, aren’t they already effectively in it? Why would they even bother to astral travel?

Another question to ponder. I happen to know that in some of their dreams every night people meet with their close friends and other significant people in their life at the time. If both they and the people they meet aren’t lucid for at least part of this, then what’s the point of meeting said people in dreamland at all? Moreover, how the heck do they find and exchange things with their friends so easily if they’re traveling blind all the way? This is one of a number of reasons why I find it impossible to believe other than that everybody lucidly astral travels every night. The real mystery is, why do most people forget that they did that, last night and every other night of their lives?



This post really made me think....
Until about 3 years ago, I always thought that I had a very clear or smart consciousness, though I never questioned myself how it was possible that I could "see" dead people, or histories attached to objects. I just thought I was kind of fast picking up details or information that was delivered by others in the conversation.
Well, I decided to get into it, and had a couple of teachers that showed me how to use this "ability". But, until now, I never understood how could I be awake and writing and at the same time, "be" in another place, completely aware, with all my senses and conscious. I guess it is possible. If it is so, then I suppose I wander between D's daily.....which could be a good explanation for the way I receive detailed information about others.


And about the other question, lately I have been visited by different people who are "teaching me" all sort of things. Unfortunately, I have brief memories of books, subjects, but thats it. I'm sure my subtle bodies have taken the lessons, but I can't remember them :(

Love to all,

[TraineeHuman]

Maybe I can find some more steadfastness ...

Malerogro, if you’re interested in increasing your “steadfastness”, you may like to consider the posts I have been making over the last week regarding concentration. I would prefer to talk of “concentration” rather than “steadfastness”, because concentration is something you can work on and refine quite directly.

In post #329 I also mentioned how important I considered “one-pointedness” to be – particularly in the sense of putting yourself totally into whatever you may be doing, regardless of how petty or routine or unimportant it might be, or seem to be.

In Japanese Zen Buddhism, one-pointedness is something everyone is conscious of trying to put into effect all the time. So, concentration, particularly concentration inward, is something that all the meditation and other esoteric traditions consider to be very, very important, far more than we may realize.

Perhaps the posts in this thread regarding “grounding” also have some relevance to increasing one’s “steadfastness”. Those posts were mainly in the last week of December and the first week of January. As I've said, I would expect more groundedness to be a complete solution to any problems of "wavering" or feeling "unsteady" as a result of your visiting OB realities.

[TraineeHuman]

Until about 3 years ago, I always thought that I had a very clear or smart consciousness, though I never questioned myself how it was possible that I could "see" dead people, or histories attached to objects. I just thought I was kind of fast picking up details or information that was delivered by others in the conversation.
Well, I decided to get into it, and had a couple of teachers that showed me how to use this "ability". But, until now, I never understood how could I be awake and writing and at the same time, "be" in another place, completely aware, with all my senses and conscious. I guess it is possible. If it is so, then I suppose I wander between D's daily.....which could be a good explanation for the way I receive detailed information about others.
After a while, with enough experience, it becomes "normal" to sometimes see a number of or many different dimensions at the same time. All the other dimensions are right here, full of life that people don't usually see going on. This is why creative geniuses can tap into the most extraordinary perceptions.


... lately I have been visited by different people who are "teaching me" all sort of things. Unfortunately, I have brief memories of books, subjects, but thats it. I'm sure my subtle bodies have taken the lessons, but I can't remember them :(
Love to all,
I'm sure you are learning the lessons on more subtle planes, kintun. That happened to me also for a number of years. At first, though, I found that life in the 3D world seemed tougher for me. This was because it seemed so ridiculous and limited compared to what I knew was possible. Also, I initially didn't know how to communicate much about what I was experiencing to others. But eventually, I consider it's a matter of achieving the "descent" of the treasures from more subtle worlds more and more into the 3D world, and making a difference in the lives of the people around you -- not necessarily at some "spiritual" level either, but as a friend or parent or co-worker and so on, and also just creating improvements or helpful ways of behaving or getting things done, often just at a "small is beautiful" grass roots level. Or just having the detachment to "keep your head while everyone around you is losing theirs."

[Malerogro]

Perhaps the posts in this thread regarding “grounding” also have some relevance to increasing one’s “steadfastness”. Those posts were mainly in the last week of December and the first week of January. As I've said, I would expect more groundedness to be a complete solution to any problems of "wavering" or feeling "unsteady" as a result of your visiting OB realities.

Hi TraineeHuman, thank you so much for you elaborate reply! What you wrote totally rings true to me. I will continue working on the heart, on grounding, and then I will move to the other points in the body you suggested. For sure, I will return to this thread often for advice and I will be happy to share my experiences with you. It might take a while though! But I am sure you are not going anywhere :) (except for OB realities :p) and neither am I.

I wish you the very best for now! :grouphug:

[Joe Akulis]

Greetings Trainee!

Let me add my name to the list of folks who are most grateful to you for starting this thread, and for all you have done with everyone since. You are setting a terrific example for the rest of us and I am learning so much from you. Your descriptions of the astral planes, when I combine them with all the material I've already soaked up, are really making things a lot clearer for me. I consider myself a bit of a Monroe pupil as his books and CDs have been the most appealing to me. And I'm starting to see how most of his focus levels map to what you're calling the 4d area. And that upper 4d level that you're referring to a couple posts back I bet is what he calls Focus 27, where a lot of people like to take a "retrieval" to help with the transitions or recoveries that they need to make. Is that pretty much where the "tunnel of light" takes everyone? The receiving area, or the park, it's sometimes called. I guess it's an infinite number of things depending on what's needed. People also set up little homes away from home there, it sounds like. Very neat. And his belief system territories are those with all the different heavens and hells in focus 23-25.

I used some of the hemi-sync cds over last summer to get familliar with his methods of helping to get you into a deep meditative state. Not bad, since I was a complete noob up til that point. I slacked off on that over the winter but kept on soaking up knowledge. I think I'm ready to make a better effort at going OOB and using that to gain some skill with seeing and hearing in 4D. Then eventually, I hope I get what I need so that I can do it just from a mediative state without the need to go OOB anymore. We'll see.

I do have a couple questions for you. The first is about whether or not you are still open to laying one of those psychic healings on me sometime, if the opportunity ever comes up. It sounds like it could be a great help to a fledgling. Or better yet, just come yank me out and shake the dust off. :-)

Also, this quote of yours has me pretty curious: "Even a simple practice such as fasting, for instance, can lead to insanity quite quickly if carried out with a lack of detailed knowledge of how to manage it." Care to spend a post on that one? :-)

The reason I ask is because I'm making an effort to raise my energy levels using some of the things I've learned. Like ditching meat, caffeine, and alcohol. I'm doing some more meditating again in my copper pyramid to get the energy flowing; get the chakras spinning. Practicing some grounding techniques and such. I created my pyramid a couple months ago and ever since I tried it out the first week, my forehead has been buzzing, as if to say, "Hey, you started this, don't stop now." But I've been kinda timid about what I might experience and that may have kept me from diving in wholeheartedly. Thanks to this thread, and a couple of major dreams last night, I'm more ... secure about the way I feel about it all now.

Just thought of a 3rd question: Do you think those 3 glass ceilings are referring to our ability to travel in 4d, then in 5d, then in 6d? I'm thinking that since you said once we learn to reside in 6d, then we have graduated from earth school. Those things make it sound like if there are only going to be two glass ceilings soon, then we are all getting bumped up to 4d, and then will be able to work a lot more easily at the other two ceilings, I hope. But if we were bumped to 5d, then that would only leave one ceiling, not two. Just at thought.

Much love to all here, and I hope to see you out there some day!

Joe

[Malerogro]

I usually skip the fourth and the fifth as well, Malerogro. The fourth and the fifth contain your baggage, your ego. Your baggage is created largely by all your traumatic past. At the time a past traumatic event occurred, by its very nature it seemed gigantic to you and totally crushing and horrible. I’m not sure if what you (or Dan33) seem to identify as “5D” is really higher levels of 4D. Although 5D contains forms, it is an abstract world, made of thoughts. Emotions are left behind in the 4D world. That doesn’t mean that “feeling” of some kind doesn’t exist beyond 4D. But emotions don’t.

What you said about 4D and 5D still containing baggage might explain what I wrote in the villagejust now, you agree?
"Here and now it hits me how much I have attacked my father on a psychic level. He has been the one person that always pushed my buttons and got on my nerves. I've always tried to do right by him but never quite got his recognition for it. Now I realise that I might have tried to get his approval in all the wrong ways anyhow. And while growing up I have blamed him so many times for hurting me and for not giving me the recognition I needed. On a higher level I know that he unconditionally loves me but he just cannot really communicate it in the 3D world. I have discovered that I have been most powerful in 5D (as characterized by unconditional love and forgiveness for all that exists). It worries me that I have treated my father so badly on this dimension, especially because I feel I am most powerful there. I can forgive my lower dimensional selves for this because I was scared and insecure. But I do feel the need to make it up to him from a 5D perspective. He is not doing so well now though and might not be open to it on a psychic level. I did sent him a letter once, expressing my unconditional love despite of whatever had happened. It took him months to respond and all he could say in the end was that he was caught of guard and blown away. Any ideas on how I can reach him? Or how I can sent positive energy towards him without forcing it upon him or threathening him by it because he cannot except it at this point?"

Regarding the discerning of the dimensions, do you agree with the information on this site: http://www.peaceinpractice.iinet.net.au/dimensionsofconsciousness.htm

Or do you prefer another one where I can go for a quick overview? Sometimes I am a bit lazy and short in time :p But like I said, I will thoroughly read the whole thread!

[TraineeHuman]

Regarding the discerning of the dimensions, do you agree with the information on this site: http://www.peaceinpractice.iinet.net.au/dimensionsofconsciousness.htm

Or do you prefer another one where I can go for a quick overview? Sometimes I am a bit lazy and short in time :p But like I said, I will thoroughly read the whole thread!
No, all those “dimensions” are just dimensions of form, I’m afraid. The formless worlds are much higher than any of those. All the major meditation traditions speak in detail of the formless worlds, as does, for example, Buhlmann, and then, way higher than the formless worlds again, we have the universal or divine worlds.

I’ve already gone into this in some detail in posts #198 and #55, among others. In some other posts I’ve tried to explain various facets of how this works. This is based on my own direct experience of different dimensions, not on some mathematician's false assumptions.

I do happen to have an honors degree in mathematics and a postgrad degree in philosophy. Sorry, but I’m horrified by how dumbed down or ignorant it seems to me certain individuals are who “profess” to tell us that the “dimensions” used in some mathematics and some physics have anything at all in common with the spiritual “dimensions”.

So many questions in the last day that I'd like to respond to. It's great to see people being so real about developing their consciousness further.

[kintun]

Until about 3 years ago, I always thought that I had a very clear or smart consciousness, though I never questioned myself how it was possible that I could "see" dead people, or histories attached to objects. I just thought I was kind of fast picking up details or information that was delivere. by others in the conversation.
Well, I decided to get into it, and had a couple of teachers that showed me how to use this "ability". But, until now, I never understood how could I be awake and writing and at the same time, "be" in another place, completely aware, with all my senses and conscious. I guess it is possible. If it is so, then I suppose I wander between D's daily.....which could be a good explanation for the way I receive detailed information about others.
After a while, with enough experience, it becomes "normal" to sometimes see a number of or many different dimensions at the same time. All the other dimensions are right here, full of life that people don't usually see going on. This is why creative geniuses can tap into the most extraordinary perceptions.


... lately I have been visited by different people who are "teaching me" all sort of things. Unfortunately, I have brief memories of books, subjects, but thats it. I'm sure my subtle bodies have taken the lessons, but I can't remember them :(
Love to all,
I'm sure you are learning the lessons on more subtle planes, kintun. That happened to me also for a number of years. At first, though, I found that life in the 3D world seemed tougher for me. This was because it seemed so ridiculous and limited compared to what I knew was possible. Also, I initially didn't know how to communicate much about what I was experiencing to others. But eventually, I consider it's a matter of achieving the "descent" of the treasures from more subtle worlds more and more into the 3D world, and making a difference in the lives of the people around you -- not necessarily at some "spiritual" level either, but as a friend or parent or co-worker and so on, and also just creating improvements or helpful ways of behaving or getting things done, often just at a "small is beautiful" grass roots level. Or just having the detachment to "keep your head while everyone around you is losing theirs."

Thank you very much for you reply, Traneehuman. It's been very comforting to learn about these worlds in your posts and get to understand a bit more about them.
I feel very identified with your words. I feel our job here is humble, "small" and usually one person at a time. More than a leader, I picture my job as a companion, somebody who walks along with the other person, through some stages in their life. And here we can talk about detachment, as you mentioned before. Sometimes you help somebody with their problems, and they refer to you as "their best friend", and you honestly don't feel anything for them but gratitude for being helpful. And they say you are detached. My friends like to bother me with, what they call, my extreme detachment. They say I'm a special case :)
But I think this comes from understanding that we are all really ONE, and that we interact even if we don't see each other. I believe we are all connected somehow and in different degrees, and that makes me feel always good. I believe that if I help somebody, I am helping myself and everybody else too...So, instead of missing someone, I just feel I am with them and my heart feels full of love and gratitude for meeting them, and for the moments shared...
Well, sorry I got too reflexive here, :P
I am really happy that I have the chance to share these things with people that believe and care.
Love to all

[ghostrider]

Hi everyone! Thanks so much to all the posters on the thread for sharing their experiences and knowledge. I am relatively new in becoming aware of the dimensions. Dan33 recognized me in another thread as operating out of 5D so that inspired me to delve more deeply into the subject. I do feel particularly at home in the 5th dimension but I have the feeling I skip the fourth in my awareness, or maybe I move through it very quickly without noticing. Any reasons I might be afraid of staying in the fourth or become aware of what is happening there? Do you think it is necessary for me to do so?
I feel like I am wavering sometimes between the third and the fith dimension and to be honoust, that is starting to wear me down. Maybe I can find some more steadfastness (a term Fred Steeves mentioned which stayed with me) when I become more aware of what is happening in the fourth?
This thread provides a lot of exercizes to explore the fourth dimension yet I still feel a reservation to try. Any tips or explanations? Thanks!
Btw, I have not practiced meditation so much yet and have not eperienced full OBE's although I can feel myself moving towards one sometimes. Also when I have been experiencing and operating out of the fifth I need sometime to get my coördination right again in the third dimension. When I get up I stumble or I drop something.
Do you think that meditation and OBE's are necessary roads to take to become aware of the fourth dimensions or are there ways to recognize the fourth dimension more in daily life without resorting to OBE's or meditation?

here is what I did, take a candle , and set it three feet away from you, get comfortable and look at the spot where the flame meets the edge of the candle... say in your mind one world. Sun ... don't let any other thoughts enter your mind. No distractions, no phone, no sound, try for five minutes... one word ... Sun ... Sun ... then put some light weight sleeping attire on and make sure the room is dark , and no heavy covers, say in your mind just as you start to get sleepy , When my body goes to sleep my mind will stay awake... you may hear a buzzing sound , dont worry , and your heart rate may increase , don't worry it's normal... be love, be free, be peaceful and loving to earth, humans , animals everything... be love ... close your eyes and notice the shapes of energy behind your eyelids, let them unfold as they do, pulses of energy will roll from small to large right at you , with a warm sensation, all the while your focus, just like the candle exercise, is when my body goes to sleep my mind will stay awake ... you will see your bedroom with your eyes closed , traveling from there is a personal journey , this just gets you in the doorway to OBE... you can return to your body just by thinking about it ... this is how I do it ... listening to some nature sounds with headphones on just prior to bedtime will help relax you and tune the world out ...sounds like waves, or harps, the main thing is teaching your mind to be quiet and peaceful and control your thoughts, it will change you when you realize you can leave your body every night and travel anywhere ... happy travels ...

[TraineeHuman]

I do have a couple questions for you. The first is about whether or not you are still open to laying one of those psychic healings on me sometime, if the opportunity ever comes up. It sounds like it could be a great help to a fledgling.
I'll try to do something helpful for you in the next week.

Also, this quote of yours has me pretty curious: "Even a simple practice such as fasting, for instance, can lead to insanity quite quickly if carried out with a lack of detailed knowledge of how to manage it." Care to spend a post on that one? :-)
It so happens that a considerable portion of the individuals who used to be locked up in psychiatric hospitals in my city over quite a few years had frequently practiced fasting. In one sense that’s all I know.

There is a substantial amount of material on effective – and I assume/hope safe -- fasting in the Forum, mainly in the Alternative Medicine & Sciences sub-forum. Maybe you would do better to discuss fasting with someone on the Forum who’s really expert at it, Joe.
But as far as I'm cocnerned, it seems to involve some degree of abuse of one’s own body. And in the world of applied psychology, it has become progressively evident over a number of decades that abuse of any kind is psychologically far more harmful than had been believed in the past.

The reason I ask is because I'm making an effort to raise my energy levels using some of the things I've learned. Like ditching meat, caffeine, and alcohol. I'm doing some more meditating again in my copper pyramid to get the energy flowing; get the chakras spinning. Practicing some grounding techniques and such. I created my pyramid a couple months ago and ever since I tried it out the first week, my forehead has been buzzing, as if to say, "Hey, you started this, don't stop now." But I've been kinda timid about what I might experience and that may have kept me from diving in wholeheartedly. Thanks to this thread, and a couple of major dreams last night, I'm more ... secure about the way I feel about it all now.
Sounds great. I'll respond to your other question shortly.


... Much love to all here, and I hope to see you out there some day!

[misfit312]

Well I just had an interesting experience maybe you can help me with what it was..My whole life I have been an interesting dreamer,I had lucid dreams before I knew what they were called, have had dreams where I fly,dreams where I am fighting with a evil unseen spirit (defeated "him" and he's never returned) dreams that I am someone else changing dimensions and timelines. As far as meditation I was doing Chakra meditation and had what I believe was a Kundalini Awakening about a month and a half ago...Anyway, you get the idea I have never had an OOBE or anything like it til today.

Ok so I was trying to take a nap today but it was unusual I swear I was awake, but all of the sudden I heard the strangest moan and after wondering where it came from I realized it was me..I though that's weird I swear I was awake.Then a little while later I heard snoring and again I realized it was me again even though I swear my eyes were open.I seen the whole room all bright and as far as visual changes nothing made me feel asleep..So again I try to go to sleep only to open my eyes and find my dog looking at me all weird like I did something..Hmmm ok so 1 last time am determined to try to sleep...That when it changes..

I am asleep at last and I start dreaming I am on my bed same time of day only instead of trying to nap I decide to meditate..Then I start to feel my whole body vibrate and all this energy focused in my hands.I tell myself to try to let go and relax and not over focus on the feelings..The scene changes and I am on my bed lying down and its night and I sit up but it feels different so I turn and look and I still see that I am lying down(but I didnt see my face it was covered by my hair)..I think ooh I must be having an OOBE so I raise my hands and wiggle them in front of my face and I can see through them..Then instead of getting up I start floating up I have every intention of seeing whats going on up not down on the ground..As I begin to travel up the room and everything goes dark and foggy and I cant see anything for a short period then I stop..I see a man sitting at a desk in the distance but only he is not "there" It was like I was looking through an extremely foggy window with just a small clear part in the middle and he was on the other side (only there was no glass) and so I just stare at him and I think this guy has been watching me but it does not feel evil or anything..He finally see's me and tries to ignore me but then he looks at me and goes "What do You want?" I answer "Come and find me." (!!!!) He gets agitated and after a while says "I'll see what I can do"

Next I feel myself going back to my body, then I wake up...

So now I am a little upset.."come find me" seriously why would I say that?
Also I am sorry if I missed a previous question on this but....What does it mean to dream of an OOBE? How is it different from an actual one as far as physical body feelings and such?

[TraineeHuman]

Well I just had an interesting experience maybe you can help me with what it was..My whole life I have been an interesting dreamer,I had lucid dreams before I knew what they were called, have had dreams where I fly,dreams where I am fighting with a evil unseen spirit (defeated "him" and he's never returned) dreams that I am someone else changing dimensions and timelines. As far as meditation I was doing Chakra meditation and had what I believe was a Kundalini Awakening about a month and a half ago...Anyway, you get the idea I have never had an OOBE or anything like it til today.

Ok so I was trying to take a nap today but it was unusual I swear I was awake, but all of the sudden I heard the strangest moan and after wondering where it came from I realized it was me..I though that's weird I swear I was awake.Then a little while later I heard snoring and again I realized it was me again even though I swear my eyes were open.I seen the whole room all bright and as far as visual changes nothing made me feel asleep..So again I try to go to sleep only to open my eyes and find my dog looking at me all weird like I did something..Hmmm ok so 1 last time am determined to try to sleep...That when it changes..

I am asleep at last and I start dreaming I am on my bed same time of day only instead of trying to nap I decide to meditate..Then I start to feel my whole body vibrate and all this energy focused in my hands.I tell myself to try to let go and relax and not over focus on the feelings..The scene changes and I am on my bed lying down and its night and I sit up but it feels different so I turn and look and I still see that I am lying down(but I didnt see my face it was covered by my hair)..I think ooh I must be having an OOBE so I raise my hands and wiggle them in front of my face and I can see through them..Then instead of getting up I start floating up I have every intention of seeing whats going on up not down on the ground..As I begin to travel up the room and everything goes dark and foggy and I cant see anything for a short period then I stop..I see a man sitting at a desk in the distance but only he is not "there" It was like I was looking through an extremely foggy window with just a small clear part in the middle and he was on the other side (only there was no glass) and so I just stare at him and I think this guy has been watching me but it does not feel evil or anything..He finally see's me and tries to ignore me but then he looks at me and goes "What do You want?" I answer "Come and find me." (!!!!) He gets agitated and after a while says "I'll see what I can do"

Next I feel myself going back to my body, then I wake up...

So now I am a little upset.."come find me" seriously why would I say that?
Also I am sorry if I missed a previous question on this but....What does it mean to dream of an OOBE? How is it different from an actual one as far as physical body feelings and such?
Regarding your successfully meditating from an OB state, may I make the following observation, so please bear with me.

When we meditate while (initially) in our 3D bodies, as I’ve said we initially need to concentrate. And to concentrate effectively we initially need to fulfil certain necessary or desirable conditions. An example of a desirable condition, for most forms of meditation, is holding your body still. We also initially need to concentrate against the obstacles to concentration itself, such as restlessness, wandering of the mind, impatience, and so on. These obstacles are all usually linked in some way to physical impulses inside us.

In addition to concentrating well, we of course need to separate from the stream of thinking that keeps going on in our mind. This stream of thinking is also actually quite physical, and mechanical, and pretty lifeless.

But to meditate successfully starting from 4D, we need to initially concentrate – and hence kind of hold ourselves still -- in 4D. That’s a more subtle skill. Indeed, if you can hold your ego emotions still so totally, that means you’ve mastered them. Roughly speaking, mastery of anything = the ability to hold it still.

I think your consciousness is probably trying to tell you that – that you’re not so far from liberation from the great wheel of reincarnating in the physical world. Sounds great!

Now to your other questions. It seems to be the case that for anyone who is a beginner at OBEs, the difference between a “lucid” dream and an OBE is so tiny that the person may as well just keep exploring lucid dreaming, and that will give them experiences of what initially happens in an OBE anyway. “Dreaming that you have an OBE”? Sounds to me like both of the above, and probably more.

Also, I would say the reason you said: “Come and find me” to some benevolent being from a higher dimension (which is what the “foggy window” means) was because inside you you know that you deserve help from such a being and you’re ready to develop yourself further. I would try to contact that being again, any way you can.

[Shamz]

Hello Guys,

First I'd like to say big thank you to TraineeHuman for starting this thread. I personally have learnt so much and still doing it from this thread and i am pretty sure we all feel the same way. It is more than just a thread for OOBE, TH have covered so many things that can take us to next level. We just have to be honest and sincere - not with the world out there but to ourself.

I have never had fully conscious OOBE but I have always had this dream of flying - most of the time it is as if I just do long jump and keeps on floating just above the ground - every time I say to myself ( while in dream ) " oh wow I can do this, I can keep floating as long as I want". The feeling is un-believable and unlike anything. Many times my whole body would be humming with this electrical energy - even after I am fully awake.

1-2 times I have this incredible feeling of joy going through my body - I can't recall what I was dreaming - but this feeling is just too wonderful - too joyous even to be put in words. I have always longed for this feeling whenever I go to bed. I have no memory of meeting any Guardian Angel or my HigherSelf.

Ever since I was little, I have experienced sleep paralysis. Wherein I am fully conscious inside but my body is complete paralyzed, can't move my arms, legs and even my tongue is twisted to speak anything or shout. My sisters and parents also have this sleep paralysis and they have no idea what causes this. All they told was that when this happens just pray to one of our Gods and He will take care of this - since they believe that it is some bad energy or entity that is trying to get hold of our body. I remember the feeling where I feel being trapped in a box when that sleep paralysis happens. But now I came to know that this is related to OOBE, which we don't rem after we get back. TH mentioned that it is because the entrance to the body is not properly aligned hence we feel this paralysis. Not sure how I tell my parents and siblings about this - they will think I am Nuts - haha.

Now I started reading about this astral travel and OOBE only lasy year. Loved SirDipSwitch's and AnotherBob's thread here on PA. Read both Buhlman's books and lot of other videos and material. I started practicing the methods and couple of times I came very close to having an OOBE. I had very lucid dreams 3-4 times. Each dream was more lucid than the other - I had vivid feeling of flying...giving commands as buhlman suggested, me calling "goto my HS" repeatedly.
I will keep trying until I have fully conscious OOBE.

One method that I particularly found very effective and by which I had 3-4 lucid dream was to sleep for atleast 4-5 hours - wake up and do some activity for 5-10 mins and then again go back to sleep. Then keep repeating your affirmations and eventually you will feel the vibrations coming when you are on the verge of sleeping and being awake. I tried for couple of days before I began to feel the vibrations.

I am not trying that hard these days to get out of body - but I am committed from inside and I know my HS and GAs will surely help me achieve this one day or the other. I know they help me a lot in whatever I ask them - of course simple everyday things and not winning a jackpot ;)

Hope to share many more experiences with you guys. You all rock on this Great Rock.


Peace and love to you all

[TraineeHuman]

Hello Guys,

... It is more than just a thread for OOBE, TH have covered so many things that can take us to next level. We just have to be honest and sincere - not with the world out there but to ourself.
Somehow making it clear why it’s far preferable to go OB traveling without any body to do the traveling in – that was a major intention I had in beginning this thread. I feel I’ve still failed to do that, though maybe in hindsight it was way too ambitious a target to shoot for.

From my initial point of view, people’s experiences and concerns and interests seemed to keep deflecting the thread off the direction I had wanted it to go. But by continually talking about the transcendent, I’ve managed to sneak in quite a lot of the material I wanted to by the back door. The transcendent is real, and there are many ways we can integrate it ever more into our lives. And I’ve become ever more and more happy to change my idea of the direction the thread should have. Especially given the quality of where so many posters are at, even if they do believe they’ve only ever had one OBE. (One thing I know is that we all greatly underestimate how many we’ve had.)

The trouble with metaphysics is that unless you’ve experienced something, or to the extent that you partially have, it’s just theory. But I’ve made the wonderful discovery, for me, that in such subjects you can go so much further by trying to address each individual’s needs according to the specific interests they currently have and at the “level” they seem to be at -- as far as you can at the time, long-distance. That’s what makes it real.

One of the difficulties is that everyone is unique and at a different “level” one way or another. That’s part of the reason I’ve been including basic material regarding concentration and meditation in recent posts. It’s partly also because I guess meditation is the only truly relevant area that I happen to know well (apart from psychology and psychotherapy, perhaps) that has very strongly transferable skills to OB travel. (Though I feel that by now there’s probably enough material on concentration already.)


I have never had fully conscious OOBE but I have always had this dream of flying - most of the time it is as if I just do long jump and keeps on floating just above the ground - every time I say to myself ( while in dream ) " oh wow I can do this, I can keep floating as long as I want". The feeling is un-believable and unlike anything. Many times my whole body would be humming with this electrical energy - even after I am fully awake.

1-2 times I have this incredible feeling of joy going through my body - I can't recall what I was dreaming - but this feeling is just too wonderful - too joyous even to be put in words. I have always longed for this feeling whenever I go to bed...
Higher dimensions --even the fourth -- feel much more joyful than the third. Are you sure you haven't experienced them and forgotten in some way, Shami?


Now I started reading about this astral travel and OOBE only last year. Loved SirDipSwitch's and AnotherBob's thread here on PA. Read both Buhlman's books and lot of other videos and material. I started practicing the methods and couple of times I came very close to having an OOBE. I had very lucid dreams 3-4 times. Each dream was more lucid than the other - I had vivid feeling of flying...giving commands as buhlman suggested, me calling "go to my HS" repeatedly.
I will keep trying until I have fully conscious OOBE.
Sorry, but as far as I know, any time you experience sleep paralysis it's because you've had a "real" OBE, even if you forget it all.

[TraineeHuman]

here is what I did, take a candle , and set it three feet away from you, get comfortable and look at the spot where the flame meets the edge of the candle... say in your mind one world. Sun ... don't let any other thoughts enter your mind. No distractions, no phone, no sound, try for five minutes... one word ... Sun ... Sun ... then put some light weight sleeping attire on and make sure the room is dark , and no heavy covers, say in your mind just as you start to get sleepy , When my body goes to sleep my mind will stay awake... you may hear a buzzing sound , dont worry , and your heart rate may increase , don't worry it's normal... be love, be free, be peaceful and loving to earth, humans , animals everything... be love ... close your eyes and notice the shapes of energy behind your eyelids, let them unfold as they do, pulses of energy will roll from small to large right at you , with a warm sensation, all the while your focus, just like the candle exercise, is when my body goes to sleep my mind will stay awake ... you will see your bedroom with your eyes closed , traveling from there is a personal journey , this just gets you in the doorway to OBE... you can return to your body just by thinking about it ...
Lighted candles are a very, very potent method of psychic protection. They are also symbolically quite suggestive of going OB, because they convert solid wax into invisible gas. They are also extremely atmospheric.

The only physical drawback is the fire risk. So, I would suggest investing in a good candleholder for anyone who’d like to try.

Watching a candle is a good way to meditate. However, in my experience beginners at meditation will not go OB while meditating, unfortunately. I guess that makes it very important to have a strong intention of going OB while doing this -- but otherwise to still let go. After some experience beginners at meditation may start to “bilocate”, but still have their awareness and their “senses” partly in the physical. Some advanced meditators will in fact go fully OB in their awareness and “see” all sorts of strange “landscapes” or what lies even further beyond.

[misfit312]

TraineeHuman thank you so much..When I first started meditating my biggest obstacle was trying to keep my mind from wandering,I have the kind of mind that used to never shush up..Now its like it can just turn off,I still haven't figured out how I did that but I love that it goes quiet now..I must admit I have never tried to meditate in a dream but "mastery of anything = the ability to hold still." I really understand this because it can be so hard to do! Thank You also for the explanation on the "come and find me" I was really flustered over that I am not the kind of person who puts myself out there like that so I was a little taken aback even though I felt to issues with that man.I will definitely try to make contact again..I think I am going to read the thread again because now after this experience I think it will help me understand more!

[Shamz]

Dear Friends,

I want to share my method of meditation. It was introduced to me by one of my friends who has done extensive course and training in "Yoga of sound and light".
Sant Math - path of the saints is a form of meditation that she followed. She said after doing it for few weeks she began to leave her body. Do search on Youtube on this.
But I personally do not follow the sound and light yoga 100%. Instead I just took a part of it and have been doing it for some time now.

What it involves is closing eyes and concentrating in the center of your eyebrows or if it hurts try to see your nose tip with your eyes closed. Initially you won't feel anything or see anything and as I said your eyes might hurt - but that means you are trying too hard, just relax your eye muscles.

Here is my experience

So when I close my eyes and concentrate on the area between my eyebrows - in the beginning all I see is darkness - I keep on concentrating - sometimes my eyes start hurting or I feel tension between my eyebrows then I change the concentration away from eyebrows towards my nose tip or away so that my muscles are relaxed. I am not thinking anything in my mind---not expecting anything - after sometime - say about 5 mins - I see/feel darkness going away... I won't say that I see bright light but its like there is a light bulb or sun in the background that is making the foreground bright. Many times I thought maybe while concentrating I opened my eyes little bit and natural sunlight has entered - but then I closed my eyes with my hands and repeated the above I experienced the same thing. After a while, I see the dark clouds condense into a small bubble and burst - its bright blue or Royal blue or Indigo color - just imagine a drop of that color in water and then bursting or expanding and continue to do that over and over again. I try to follow the bursting waves and the keep on going - after a while I start seeing very small bright spot in the middle of that little drop which explodes... I concentrate on that light and think that it will or should grow big and big... it does expand little bit and then burst.

Now I have tried the above at night with complete darkness, I saw the same effect of colors and light. Following those colors is very additive - I have done the above for 20-30 mins continuously sometimes. If I do it more somehow a feeling creep in that I might not be able to open my eyes - because I keep on concentrating too hard.

And I feel that all it does is improve my concentration, because when I do this no thoughts come to my mind - i just want to follow the colors that is it.

Hope it helps little bit.

Peace & Love to all !

[TraineeHuman]

Here and now it hits me how much I have attacked my father on a psychic level. He has been the one person that always pushed my buttons and got on my nerves. I've always tried to do right by him but never quite got his recognition for it. Now I realise that I might have tried to get his approval in all the wrong ways anyhow. And while growing up I have blamed him so many times for hurting me and for not giving me the recognition I needed. On a higher level I know that he unconditionally loves me but he just cannot really communicate it in the 3D world. I have discovered that I have been most powerful in 5D (as characterized by unconditional love and forgiveness for all that exists). It worries me that I have treated my father so badly on this dimension, especially because I feel I am most powerful there. I can forgive my lower dimensional selves for this because I was scared and insecure. But I do feel the need to make it up to him from a 5D perspective. He is not doing so well now though and might not be open to it on a psychic level. I did sent him a letter once, expressing my unconditional love despite of whatever had happened. It took him months to respond and all he could say in the end was that he was caught of guard and blown away. Any ideas on how I can reach him? Or how I can sent positive energy towards him without forcing it upon him or threatening him by it because he cannot except it at this point?
Well, first of all I have an older brother who also can't express his feelings, much like your father. I believe I know that in his previous lifetime my brother was a member of the Illuminati, and I'm sure some things in his other past Illuminati lifetimes also severely squashed his expressiveness. My brother's children had at one stage cut off all communication with him because they had decided they wanted more -- even though they knew that his main way of expressing affection to them was by giving them expensive presents, which they did like. I had to remind them my brother still hurts, still bleeds, like any other person. I had to delicately persuade them that what they were planning to do -- cut off completely from their parents --would greatly hurt both their parents, and was therefore very unkind and immoral.

So, Malerogro, because your father still hurts and bleeds, I consider it's essential for you to visit him in person. You'll just need to know that although he may not have the words in him, he still has a heart inside, basically just the same as every other human being's. You can still give him a huge hug, and he can still hug you back just as passionately on the inside. This would also give him something positive to remember you by after he dies, something that can wipe away all the other nonsense, which by comparison isn't important at all -- as he'll see very clearly after he dies, but much better to see it while he's still alive. Swallow any discomfort you may feel, and just give him that hug, and make sure he feels that you mean it. Which you do anyway, at a deeper level inside, as you yourself said. And then he will hug you back with feeling. Or if he doesn't at first, then try it again.

It's very important to get this done in the physical world, before he leaves it, for all sorts of reasons. Maybe I'll write a post on that subject shortly. I appreciate you're thinking well, there's greater power in higher dimensions so why not tap into that. But notice how this is also another example of putting "descension" into practice.

[TraineeHuman]

... I consider myself a bit of a Monroe pupil as his books and CDs have been the most appealing to me. And I'm starting to see how most of his focus levels map to what you're calling the 4d area. And that upper 4d level that you're referring to a couple posts back I bet is what he calls Focus 27, where a lot of people like to take a "retrieval" to help with the transitions or recoveries that they need to make. Is that pretty much where the "tunnel of light" takes everyone? The receiving area, or the park, it's sometimes called. I guess it's an infinite number of things depending on what's needed. People also set up little homes away from home there, it sounds like. Very neat. And his belief system territories are those with all the different heavens and hells in focus 23-25.
As accurately as I can tell, the place where "the tunnel of light" goes to is exactly midway up the levels of 4D.
But a major problem for many dead people is that they refuse to let go of what is left of their 4D "body" -- the emotional part of their "ego" or "personality". I say "what is left" because most of the more negative energies simply drop off them shortly after death. As I've mentioned, this lives on at least for centuries, but anyone who has truly learnt the lessons they intended to learn in their recent lifetime will be able to drop the whole thing sooner rather than later. It sounds to me like the little "homes away from home" are security blankets for trying to hide one's attachment to one's former personality.

Just thought of a 3rd question: Do you think those 3 glass ceilings are referring to our ability to travel in 4d, then in 5d, then in 6d? I'm thinking that since you said once we learn to reside in 6d, then we have graduated from earth school. Those things make it sound like if there are only going to be two glass ceilings soon, then we are all getting bumped up to 4d, and then will be able to work a lot more easily at the other two ceilings, I hope. But if we were bumped to 5d, then that would only leave one ceiling, not two.
I don't agree with the common notion of "ascension" at all. If everyone suddenly became able to remember some of the times when they were OB traveling as we all do every night while we dream, I guess you could say that would take away one of the ceilings. I think the standard notion of "ascension" is impossible because it involves the most dramatic transformation of the species in at least thousands of years of history being handed to us all on a plate. I say you get nothing for nothing. You have to lift yourself up, not wait for some parent-figures in the sky or wherever to do it for you. (And even if they did, I don't see how you wouldn't tumble back down almost straight away after they had propped you up on the higher level.)
And by the way, Joe, it's great to hear from someone who's already getting fluent at OB travel and exploration of all that's "up" there.

[TraineeHuman]

Jack Kerouac wrote a book called Dharma Bums. In it he described how he and a friend lived for a few full years by having every choice and every decision determined randomly, by a toss of a coin.

By contrast, we have AwakeInADream’s very impressive description, in post #344, of how he has found a way to stay in touch with his HS for periods of time, or at least to receive and listen to his HS’s point of view very clearly. I have found that gratifying to hear, because prior to then I assumed Awake might be one of a number of individuals who I felt could probably make use of recent material in this thread regarding concentration and meditation. I’m somewhat surprised that no-one has reported on any attemptof their own to make use of Awake’s extraordinary discovery, nor asked him if he can remember any other details regarding how he managed to do it.

Recently, Awake attended a job interview, during which he seems to have been successful in staying in touch with his HS. As he puts it:

“I've passed the first stage of the interview process with a group and so next I will be having a one to one interview so I must have impressed.

”I think the trick was to empty my mind and trust that my higher self would know exactly what to say and how to act, and strangely I did seem to display an uncharacteristic amount of confidence on the day without any nerves at all. I am normally quite shy and nervous in these situations.”

I did mention to him that in my experience the HS makes the choice of what would be a beneficial job position for you, and in that sense the intention lies with the HS rather than with your personality or mind. The HS will not always select the most lucrative position available to you, but one likeliest to help you evolve and mature more fully.

Let’s send our good intentions to Awake so that he may be successful at gaining this position.

[TraineeHuman]

Dear Friends,
I want to share my method of meditation. It was introduced to me by one of my friends who has done extensive course and training in "Yoga of sound and light".
Sant Math - path of the saints is a form of meditation that she followed. She said after doing it for few weeks she began to leave her body. Do search on Youtube on this.
But I personally do not follow the sound and light yoga 100%. Instead I just took a part of it and have been doing it for some time now.

What it involves is closing eyes and concentrating in the center of your eyebrows or if it hurts try to see your nose tip with your eyes closed. Initially you won't feel anything or see anything and as I said your eyes might hurt - but that means you are trying too hard, just relax your eye muscles.

Shami, I agree with you that intense concentration on the light or sound in the centre of your head is an interesting form of meditation. If a person can by concentrating “see” the light inside their head, I find it seems to work better than mentally hearing the sound that’s in the same place. Personally I find it enormous fun and extremely joyful to do, but I find that with many types of meditation practices.

This type of concentration or meditation does gradually open up many of a person’s latent talents. That’s a very important thing absolutely everybody should do, because for the last twenty thousand years we have been brought up to believe we are not beings who are full of extraordinary abilities.

I also agree with you that looking for a light, or a sound, inside one’s head is an easier way to learn how to concentrate on that point of the body.

But as I’ve said, there’s a problem if a person develops this form of meditation without first having learned how to concentrate on their heart centre. Such a person can develop delusions of grandeur, and can also unleash extraordinary abilities which they have not learnt to use caringly and responsibly enough.

In your own case, you have such a happy marriage and so much love in your extended family that there is no danger for somebody from a background like yours. You’re already concentrating on coming from the heart quite often in your daily life probably without being conscious you’re doing that.

I would still want to urge you to at some point try concentrating regularly on the light at the oversoul point above your head.

[AwakeInADream]

Hi TH!:) Thank's for you PM responses and you good intentions above:)

I've never seen anything in my 3rd eye, but it does pulse quite a lot (at times it moves higher towards my hairline), along with tingling sensations over the whole of my skull, like electricity(slightly rarer). Am I supposed to see a real light in my head when I focus on the 3rd eye? Or just imagine one?

Often (but not too often) when meditating I will see a shadowy face appear and disappear very quickly, sometimes a fully body will appear too like last month when some guy came into view from the left, sat down on a chair and leaned forward, just observing me (I think he wore glasses and had a mustache). This used to scare me a little, but not anymore.

I'd like to hear a little more about what to do when focusing on the heart chakra (which I probably neglect because it's less noticeable to me).

Also more about how the chakras relate to the OBE in general. Are they 'portals' into different D's?

Also, How do you leave without a body? Do you send a point of consciousness out of your 3rd eye?
(this is what I was attempting to do the night I heard the voice for a few hours)

Many years ago I did the playing card test whilst meditating. I imagined a ball of light leaving my 3rd eye and going into the other room where the playing card was, and I really did see the playing card as a shadowy 'hallucination', and it was the right one. I've only ever managed to achieve this once.

I feel that since the last two times I've come close to going out of body I 'got stuck', that maybe travelling without a body would be easier for me to try for first.
---------------------------------------------
I will post more thoughts about my HS experiences later when I have more time but I will just say this. There are certain things that I am much less afraid of now concerning the destruction of the personality.:)

[TraineeHuman]

I'd like to hear a little more about what to do when focusing on the heart chakra (which I probably neglect because it's less noticeable to me).
The three different types of concentration are all connected in the exercise of feeling the aliveness -- see post #114.

The way I would put it is that the “aliveness” that you feel inside you – the feeling of how (great, or at least OK) it is just simply to be alive – is your main contact with your HS. It’s the thing that sets up the “connection”. Not that you ever were disconnected or out of contact with your HS, except at some stage you learnt to persuade yourself you were.

Initially, as a young child, you naturally learn how to get in touch with feeling your aliveness, and you do it through your (concentrating on) your heart. And as far as I can see that’s most of the reason why young children find life something that they have to celebrate. This, as I see it, is why children cannot resist playing. Just like the birds can't resist bursting into song because existence feels so great.

As an adult what you need to regain is this sense of being a playful “animal”, a friendly creature. The answer to how you will know when you have done concentration on the heart long enough is when it leads you to recovering the “little boy” or “little girl” inside you that feels glad to be alive, and feels very one with nature. I hate saying "regain" it, because all it really means is reconnect, unblock the well.

[TraineeHuman]

I've never seen anything in my 3rd eye, but it does pulse quite a lot (at times it moves higher towards my hairline), along with tingling sensations over the whole of my skull, like electricity(slightly rarer). Am I supposed to see a real light in my head when I focus on the 3rd eye? Or just imagine one?

“Am I having the “right” experience?” “Should I be seeing a light when I do X?” These questions are dangerous. I guess it’s OK for a beginner to try to see that light when they are first starting out doing the exercise Shami described.

But may I point out that it would spoil our relationship with anybody if before we first met them we went around and collected others’ impressions of that person, and if we then assumed that the person we would be meeting would fit into such-and-such a box – according to our collection of others’ opinions. Much of OBE and meditation is meant to be all about setting aside our limitations and preconceptions – and even more so is anything to do with the HS.

It’s mostly a “negative” way. It’s deeply to do with “less is more”.

Since you feel your third eye pulsing or buzzing or whatever, and you feel the energy flowing through your crown chakra, you’re way ahead of the majority of people. Just go with it and stop messing with what’s already going on. I often feel my third eye buzzing, but I just let it go on doing as it does.

Having said that, though, I guess I still need to address most of your questions specifically, which I’ll do in my next post. And I do welcome your bringing up issues so that others can hopefully learn some pointers.

[soleil]

awake, i would love to read/hear about your progression with your HS and doing OBE.

TH, may i ask about my experiences...at night when i do my active meditating and 'listening in' - i have my eyes closes and just do nothing/think nothing/project nothing...and i end up seeing the craziest psychadelic moving light/colours and sometimes i see faces. EXTREMELY clear/detailed faces that i do not recognize. they appear and stay there for as long as i can view them, i take in their appearance, look at all the details and then sometimes in the middle or when i think i've memorized the face, it disappears and most times i dont rememberthe detail, but just specific things. like one face was a lady with blonde curley hair, and another was an asian man i've never seen before, roughly maybe 40-50's of age. is this some specific frequency i am tuning into? by chance?


and on another note, i'm interested to know if the chords/cords you had mentioned previously are hindering me in any way? this may be off topic, but does that have to do with my karma and or a trait of myself i have to work on? would you be able to tell if i have been progressing at all - similar to how you did the first time? i apologize if this is way off of what you are looking to do with this thread/group. :)

thank you for expanding this thread, i think it encompasses a lot like many have said so far. :)

[TraineeHuman]

I've never seen anything in my 3rd eye, but it does pulse quite a lot (at times it moves higher towards my hairline), along with tingling sensations over the whole of my skull, like electricity(slightly rarer). Am I supposed to see a real light in my head when I focus on the 3rd eye? Or just imagine one?
When Vivekananda first came to Australia, one of my former teachers came to hear him. Near the end of his talk, V. asked the audience if during his talk anybody had experienced the energies of their crown chakra just as you sometimes (often?) experience them, Awake. My teacher was the only one in the audience who did. I know that today, though, there would have been quite a few.

V. asked about this because he knew that, as far as he was concerned, it was the certain indicator that the person’s kundalini had already been fully raised (or dare I use the word “ascended”?) So, congratulations. And end of story, as far as worrying about it. Just let it do what it does. And my wish and hope would be that everybody else who reads this thread will eventually also be so lucky. Don't waste your energy looking for a light in the middle of your head. I probably wouldn't even worry about focusing on your third eye at all, for now.

You’ll notice that the physical energies at the crown chakra reach vertically upwards. They actually extend to the oversoul chakra, although they get finer the more vertically up you go, so you may not feel that they go that far, Awake. No matter. It means you’re already using your oversoul. It’s already awakened. Or I think Vivekananda or the other traditional masters would have said something along those lines.

They would also have agreed with me that you need to strengthen your foundation more. But because you’ve already got the “genie” out of the bottle, you can just direct all your attention on the basics, some of which you have been neglecting a little. There are the physical basics and the relating to other people basics. Just work on getting your life right. Not at any fancy level but just taking care of all the boring c**p that comes with having a physical body in the physical world. You don’t need any advice about that. You just need to find the will to do it.

Often (but not too often) when meditating I will see a shadowy face appear and disappear very quickly, sometimes a fully body will appear too like last month when some guy came into view from the left, sat down on a chair and leaned forward, just observing me (I think he wore glasses and had a mustache). This used to scare me a little, but not anymore.
Again, lucky you. I've checked on this character and he's totally benevolent. Nice that he cares enough to visit. I sometimes wear glasses, but it's definitely not me -- and I don't have a mo.
...

Also more about how the chakras relate to the OBE in general. Are they 'portals' into different D's?
I would have thought worrying about the chakras would for you be mostly a huge distraction. As far as I understand, a major part of why people were traditionally taught to be aware of individual chakras was the hope that eventually they would integrate it all into a whole when at some time in the future the kundalini energy activated their oversoul chakra, which would then unite all the chakras and everything else, and shower their energy everywhere all over their energy field in a unified way. At that point the individual was meant to largely forget about their chakras, as far as I understand. Everything gets simplified then. Just get your life right at a practical level, Awake.
No, the chakras aren't portals to different Ds. Some therapists "read" the energy of individual chakras and use the information. It's very easy to learn to "read" the energy in a client's chakra. For instance, you read the first chakra and it gives a general overview of their sex life and history. But although these are effective therapeutic tools, I don't see much value in worrying about your individual chakras if you're the client. -- Well, not unless it's something like the somato-psychic healing work of Dr Ravi Ratan from Bombay.
I've also found that being conscious of my chakras makes my psychic healing energy less effective -- because it's a holistic thing -- coming ultimately, though, from (natural, unconscious) concentration on the oversoul chakra.

Also, How do you leave without a body? Do you send a point of consciousness out of your 3rd eye?
(this is what I was attempting to do the night I heard the voice for a few hours)
Many years ago I did the playing card test whilst meditating. I imagined a ball of light leaving my 3rd eye and going into the other room where the playing card was, and I really did see the playing card as a shadowy 'hallucination', and it was the right one. I've only ever managed to achieve this once.

As I've said, if I were you I'd forget about imagining balls of light, or doing anything with your third eye. It's already been liberated and declared its nationhood (as part of you, not in rebellion).
I'll have to pause here and leave the topic of being OB without a body for another post.

[kintun]

Hi all!
I would like to ask Traineehuman another question because of something I've been feeling lately.
Is it possible to have an OBE being awake? I am asking this because I have the strongest feelings that it IS possible. I mean, leave your body at any time or moment, just wanting to do it.
I have been doing some meditation for short periods of time (10 or 15 minutes) and my body feels right as it does when having an OBE. In one opportunity I actually got out of my body, making me feel confused about it because of the sense of weight I had and because I didn't expect to have that experience at that moment. Anyway, I don't see why it couldn'tbe possible although I don't know the risk of doing it.
Thanks!!
Love to all

[TraineeHuman]

..at night when i do my active meditating and 'listening in' - i have my eyes closes and just do nothing/think nothing/project nothing...and i end up seeing the craziest psychadelic moving light/colours and sometimes i see faces. EXTREMELY clear/detailed faces that i do not recognize. they appear and stay there for as long as i can view them, i take in their appearance, look at all the details and then sometimes in the middle or when i think i've memorized the face, it disappears and most times i dont rememberthe detail, but just specific things. like one face was a lady with blonde curley hair, and another was an asian man i've never seen before, roughly maybe 40-50's of age. is this some specific frequency i am tuning into? by chance?

and on another note, i'm interested to know if the chords/cords you had mentioned previously are hindering me in any way? this may be off topic, but does that have to do with my karma and or a trait of myself i have to work on? would you be able to tell if i have been progressing at all...?
I talked about “seeing pictures” in my opening posts. There I mentioned that the ability to do this often takes dedicated meditators years to develop. The faces and lights and so on that you are seeing are largely or entirely part of this phenomenon. So, my first comment is, congratulations on learning to “see pictures” fluently. You’re definitely doing very well if you see these often. And I much like it that you’re seeing lots of them, apparently.

As I understand it, most of the faces you’re seeing will be (memories) from past lifetimes. It just so happens that most of our baggage is a continuation of something that has gone on for lifetimes. Successful meditation or self-psychotherapy – a form of which you are doing – means mastering whatever the problem energies are, and that ultimately means somehow getting to their root or origin. Because of this, our mind will replay details such as faces and facial expressions from the past (many of which won’t be from this lifetime), if not entire scenes sometimes, like a movie. The hallucinatory or psychedelic pictures you’ve been seeing will be from past drug-taking (including things like hospital antibiotics). If the pictures are running, you’re getting free of the effects now.

Personally I prefer to not look at the pictures but to just look at the “brilliant emptiness” that is Source. Occasionally pictures or snatches of pictures or brief “movies” will just flash into my mind out of nowhere, but I know it’s because I’ve recently released and broken free of some memories it’s related to. In my adolescence I basically fell addictively in love with Source and discovered Source was more satisfying and vividly real than anyone or anything else. But that is also a trap, albeit an exalted one, because it can lead to such major traps as monk-like or nun-like behaviors, for example, or trying to wear a “halo” – which is shorthand for “holier than thou”. And I eventually did need to also learn to master “pictures” and then eventually, later, the things that lie at higher levels (higher Ds) than “pictures”.

You just need to continue watching the pictures but not get involved in them, just let the movies run. And try to notice what the very subtle insight is that comes up once the movie clip has finished. It’s ultimately all about liking yourself and forgiving yourself, in great detail.

How well are you doing? Very well. Well enough. Perfection is largely a myth anyway. The fact that you’re also a single mother means you’ve got a nice other “spiritual practice” that most people don’t appreciate is spiritual at all and that keeps your feet firmly in touch with the ground, a nice balance to the meditation/etc you’re doing.

I know it feels almost impossibly hard, to any aware person to bear handling all this. It feels like “the world out there” is just way too demanding on you and too strong and too insane and crass. But what’s really happening is that you’re dealing with all your baggage from all your past lifetimes. Because of that, you’ll feel that “the world” will make ever more crippling demands on you as the years go on, at least until you’re forty or so. The bad news is that you’ll feel like no matter what you do, you’ll apparently keep sinking deeper and deeper into a hole no matter what your best efforts are to evolve yourself. The good news is, unbeknown to you you’re kind of dragging in all the issues from all your past lives, and the more tough the issues are, the longer they will be with you and they’ll only rear their heads at the end – hence the “ever deeper into the hole” feeling that will be your life. I’ve been there for several decades, and I’ve known other “spiritual” people who’ve done the same for decades. Yes, it feels impossibly hard on you. “Welcome” to planet Earth. I’ve also come out of the “hole” and I’ve seen others do it too. The darker the hole was, the stronger and more subtle and beautiful and outwardly nonchalant it makes you. Believe me, by the time you reach forty or so, the “hole” stops going down and gets shallower and shallower. Then there’s a transition point where it seems like almost all you ever get is dessert. The interesting thing, though, is that parts of what seems like dessert to you often seems like trouble to others – but only because they haven’t climbed out of their holes yet. Life is strange.

You’re wondering if you’ve gotten rid of cords. The cords are connected with the “pictures” in various ways, so I’ve partly covered this by now. On the other hand, there are some cords that stay physically on your body till death, particularly from family members and close friends and bosses and co-workers. What can I say? There are thousands of cords. In every square inch of the body you’ll find there are several of them glued on. There’s no shortcut to getting rid of them quickly – though I’ve seen many claimed methods for doing that even just in this Forum and its predecessors. Just keep on doing what you’re doing, and keep stopping to smell the roses whenever you can.

Let me add that usually when you're making a really big breakthrough, it'll seem to you like you've gone insane and like everything you're doing seems to be going wrong. It's kind of like you've transitioned into hell. You just have to stay with it and bear that faux-hell. Traditionally, the Western esoteric and shamanic traditions talk of there being a "guardian of the threshhold" at every gate to moving into a higher level. That "guardian's" job is to give you hell and only let you through if you prove to him/it that you're strong enough and genuine enough to keep on going regardless.

[TraineeHuman]

Hi all! ... Is it possible to have an OBE being awake?
Yes. After enough experience, every OBEer starts doing this naturally, and more and more easily.

I am asking this because I have the strongest feelings that it IS possible. I mean, leave your body at any time or moment, just wanting to do it.
Yes, eventually it's true that whenever you want to have an OBE, you can, in theory, do it. But it wouldn't be safe if, say, you were driving at the time! There's no special risk in going OB while you're awake, as long as you're sitting down quietly and doing nothing. You might also like to look at posts #172 to #175 and #184.

I have been doing some meditation for short periods of time (10 or 15 minutes) and my body feels right as it does when having an OBE.
Exactly right. That's pretty much how any experienced meditator who's been meditating properly is going to feel. Great to hear.

In one opportunity I actually got out of my body.
Me too, now and then, when I do my ten or fifteen minutes of watching-the-breath meditation in the morning. But if I do ten minutes or more of walking q'i gong, afterwards I'll feel so intoxicated with joy/Source it'll be a struggle to get back in my body for hours.

Anyway, I don't see why it couldn't be possible although I don't know the risk of doing it.
No special risk, beyond what I've already mentioned just above. You can also use something like #191 and lighted candles for protection.

Interestingly, there's some amount of intersection between any two dimensions anyway. All the dimensions have a part of them actually right here in the physical world anyway.

I'm trying to avoid saying things which are too philosophical or abstract, because most members won't get what I'm talking about, however much mindblowing truth such things have packed away inside them for anyone with "eyes" to see. But I'll venture the statement that in certain ways the division of reality into the "pigeonholes" that we know as dimensions isn't accurate, or isn't the full story. Because of that, it's part of the natural state of humans to experience all the dimensions at the same time, and we fail to do so only because of our current "fallen" condition.

[meeradas]

Damn... way past forty, and instead of dessert, there's desert - with very scarce oasis stopovers.
[now why does that make me grin all over while writing this, when the original intention was "public self-pity"? Hargh...]

[Eram]

I wonder how you all feel about the talk that promotes to decalcify the pineal gland in order to get in contact with the different levels of our existance more easy.
OBE, meditation, clairvoyance etc.

Since I joined PA and started to investigate more about health issues in relation to nutricion, I found that on many websites people talk about this decalcifcation of the pineal gland and how it helps to get there.

I don't know if this is true for sure, but my personal findings point in that direction though.

I had my 9 amalgam fillings removed about 6 months ago and took homeopathic amalgam to distort the effects of 32 years mercury accumulation in the body.
Mercury is said to damage the pineal gland among many other regions in the body.
Since the homeopathic amalgam I noticed lots of changes in the way that my mind works. All positive.
More clear in the head, better concentration, returning of photografic memory, speed of thingking and processing information etc.

Also, on advice of a member here on PA I started to take borax (http://health-science-spirit.com/borax.htm) as is food supplement for my arthritis like symptomes and borax is also said to decalcify the pineal gland.
I take it for 2 weeks now and there is one particular thing that I notice:
My dream life has improved dramatically. That is: My dreams became much more vivid and with much more details.
When I wake up now, I can remember as much as 2 or 3 dreams that I had that night and the memory stayes with me so that I can easily write the dreams down on paper.

At the moment I don't practice with going OBE as it doesn't feel like to right time to persue this, but I wouldn't be surprised if this would go much better too.

Iodine as a supplement is also said to have beneficial effects on the pineal gland.

here is a thread dedicated to decalcify the pineal gland (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?13469-The-Pineal-Gland-and-its-decalcification).

So, it would be interesting to hear about your personal experiences and efforts (if any) to work on this on a metabolical level.
What's your take on this TH?


ps: Teradactyl.... your last post with the face and psychadelic moving light/colours that you see: This is exactly what I experience sometimes when I lay awake in my bed and do meditation.

[TraineeHuman]

I wonder how you all feel about the talk that promotes to decalcify the pineal gland in order to get in contact with the different levels of our existance more easy.
OBE, meditation, clairvoyance etc.

I can’t comment much beyond my own experience. Both my parents had bad thyroids, which is genetic, so I’ve got a thyroid badly in need of support. In addition, when I was six I briefly caught a normally fatal disease that I fought off, but ever since then my adrenals have always produced excessive adrenaline and cortisol. The pituitary is the third of the glands that make up the endocrine system, so it’s almost certainly been in a bad way for significant periods of my life.

If you consider the fact that the endocrine system, rather than the nervous system or the brain as a whole, is the master system that controls everything in our physical body, that’s been significant. Over a third of the time whenever I’ve meditated over the last five years, there have been GAs working on my third eye making it buzz. Also about equal time on fixing one or both of my amygdalas. Though I don’t know to what extent they’ve worked on the pineal/hypothalamus/pituitary to heal it, or on the other hand to assist in its self-activation.

Over the past two years I’ve been taking vitamin K2, and also a natural iodine supplement known as thyadine, in addition to a kelp tablet every morning. (Unfortunately it doesn’t seem to be possible, or easy, to get something like Lugol’s in Australia these days.) I’ve certainly noticed this makes it easier for me to come up with original ideas.

But I’d have to say, quoting Paracelsus, that at the end of the day “as above, so below” but not “as below, so above”. Because of this, my GAs can successfully rebalance and heal my third eye area and amygdale because they come from realms that dominate over the physical. It does help them, though, that I happen to be a natural medium.

Of course it helps to use physical means too, like iodine and mercury removal and magnesium supplements and so on as Wakytweaky says. But I feel we can all run purely on “help from above” if it comes to the pinch. Maybe it will take twice as long to get the same quality dreams, etc that we would by physically cleansing ourselves continually, but I believe we’d still get the same quality dreams etc, or at least that I would.

Another way to look at this is in terms of psychic healing that comes from a higher D, and it activates the client’s organism to heal itself on a physical level. I suspect our organism has all the knowledge of how to overcome poisoning or suppression of any kind, and it’s simply a matter of activating the accessing of that knowledge.

Of course, it’s better to use both approaches, if you can. Keep doing the maximum you can, and be open to receiving extra help if you need it.

[Joe Akulis]

"Somehow making it clear why it’s far preferable to go OB traveling without any body to do the traveling in – that was a major intention I had in beginning this thread. I feel I’ve still failed to do that, though maybe in hindsight it was way too ambitious a target to shoot for."

I dunno. Monroe and Buhlman both started out this way. Then they changed their tune later on and tried to promote just shifting focus or awareness to accomplish things. My take on it is, some people can use meditation to begin seeing and hearing in 4D and learn to interpret what they are sensing very well. Other people may struggle greatly coming at it directly like this. I'm currently thinking that going OOB in your energy body to explore 4D is like training wheels. Once you get the hang of interpreting the energy, using the energy, communicating, and things like that, then you should be able to take the OOB training wheels off and do a lot of the same things just by relaxing and meditating. Just an opinion anyway.

I was already getting discouraged again over the weekend because having a wife and four young children makes it impossible to get much quiet time for meditation. So I was starting to think that all of these efforts of mine to learn more about 4D will simply have to go on the back burner until a later time in my life.

Then Sunday night I get another dream. I'm at a race track watching race cars go around and around. *sigh* "Okay, okay, I get the message." It was encouraging to know that my HS is still pulling for me. So I decided to make a dedicated effort every night to "getting out" as I'm dozing off. Last night was mostly a struggle with trying to steady my focus on the particular technique I want to use. And calming my nerves. Man is that hard. Caught myself snoring twice. :-)

Much love to all, see you soon.
Joe

PS. I hope your toe is feeling better!

[Shamz]

I would still want to urge you to at some point try concentrating regularly on the light at the oversoul point above your head.

TH,
Does that mean I just imagine a light just above my head and concentrate on it ? I think if I imagine something at the start - I am pretty sure I will find that light eventually...because my mind will make it sooner or later.
But the real deal will be when you just concentrate without expecting anything- then find out what you got?

Am I heading in the right direction ?

Peace & Love !!

[Shamz]

" So I decided to make a dedicated effort every night to "getting out" as I'm dozing off. Last night was mostly a struggle with trying to steady my focus on the particular technique I want to use. And calming my nerves. Man is that hard. Caught myself snoring twice.


Joe,

Lol that happened to me too on couple of occasions. Although I did not have a fully conscious OBE yet, but I did have few very very vivid ones.

What I did was sleep atleast 3-4 hours... wake up - do some activity for 10-15 mins and then again try to goto sleep and repeating your affirmations. By doing this I got the vibrations and energy flowing through my body almost daily.

Try to see if that works.

Peace & Love !!

[TraineeHuman]

I would still want to urge you to at some point try concentrating regularly on the light at the oversoul point above your head.

TH,
Does that mean I just imagine a light just above my head and concentrate on it ? I think if I imagine something at the start - I am pretty sure I will find that light eventually...because my mind will make it sooner or later.
But the real deal will be when you just concentrate without expecting anything- then find out what you got?
Peace & Love !!
Hi Shami, You can do either, but as you say, it's certainly preferable just to look rather than imagine in advance what you're going to see.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Teradactyl.... your last post with the face and psychadelic moving light/colours that you see: This is exactly what I experience sometimes when I lay awake in my bed and do meditation.
Interesting. Nearly three months ago my intuition clearly identified you two as quite similar. I believe the similarity was that although you both were somewhat new to meditation and facing your demons, I felt you both had enormously strong intention to succeed at self-development – or should I say “beyond-self” development. Such intention will take a person far, usually quite quickly, in any field.

[TraineeHuman]

"Somehow making it clear why it’s far preferable to go OB traveling without any body to do the traveling in – that was a major intention I had in beginning this thread. I feel I’ve still failed to do that, though maybe in hindsight it was way too ambitious a target to shoot for."

I dunno. Monroe and Buhlman both started out this way. Then they changed their tune later on and tried to promote just shifting focus or awareness to accomplish things. My take on it is, some people can use meditation to begin seeing and hearing in 4D and learn to interpret what they are sensing very well. Other people may struggle greatly coming at it directly like this. I'm currently thinking that going OOB in your energy body to explore 4D is like training wheels. Once you get the hang of interpreting the energy, using the energy, communicating, and things like that, then you should be able to take the OOB training wheels off and do a lot of the same things just by relaxing and meditating. Just an opinion anyway.

I agree regular meditation seems essential for everyone, Joe, although doing it properly seems to me to still be almost a lost art for modern Westerners. The hard part to learn seems to be to truly see or “allow” the whole thinking process, and even the whole self-identification process, as something outside of or only at the edges of ... whatever the reality is that makes the real “you” that you feel inside. I’ve been calling it “letting go (of everything)”, but call it what you like.

I certainly agree with you 100% at least in the sense that truly letting go of one’s physical body is one first step a person can take on the way to learning to do this. One variety of the kinds of training wheels that are available.

I guess OB travel carries a greater novelty value for many, as does psychedelic drug experience for some. The strange thing is, the novelty wears off soon enough. A number of times in my life I’ve managed to become fully or partly self-employed in some field that I loved. You’d think that successfully “following your heart”, “following your dream” would lead to the most enjoyable kind of work possible. Not so. The glamour wears off within months or less, and then the work becomes just as ordinary and plain as in any other field of work.

It's been years since I've gone OB travelling in a relatively high dimension other than through meditation, or else in an unsolicited lucid "dream" but in a higher D than normal for dreams.

I guess the thirst for the "exotic other" diminishes because one discovers more and more that that "other" is the deepest "I" -- or whatever it is that lies at the heart of, or the fullest flowering of, that "I".

[Shamz]

Dear TH,


"Somehow making it clear why it’s far preferable to go OB traveling without any body to do the traveling in – that was a major intention I had in beginning this thread"

I also have a Question on the above statement, I thought OB travel is without the body... where you exit out of body and go about exploring other dimensions etc.

I know SirDipSwitch has mentioned couple of times in his thread that now since he is one with his HS for some time...HE taught him some tricks by which SirDipSwitch can pull his body too - anywhere he goes...so he can travel out and pull his physical body with it.

But What exactly does the above statement mean ?

[TraineeHuman]

Dear TH,


"Somehow making it clear why it’s far preferable to go OB traveling without any body to do the traveling in – that was a major intention I had in beginning this thread"

I also have a Question on the above statement, I thought OB travel is without the body... where you exit out of body and go about exploring other dimensions etc.
...
But What exactly does the above statement mean ?
By "without a body" I mean without a 4D body and without a 5D body, as well as without a 3D body.
Once you reach or are aware of 6D or higher, you don't have any "body" there.

[Shamz]

Once you reach or are aware of 6D or higher, you don't have any "body" there.

Ahh I see - I remember - in 6D or higher - we don't have this notion of physical body - of arms/legs/eyes - we are just one formless awareness.

thanks for clarifying this

Peace and Love

[Eram]

But I’d have to say, quoting Paracelsus, that at the end of the day “as above, so below” but not “as below, so above”. Because of this, my GAs can successfully rebalance and heal my third eye area and amygdale because they come from realms that dominate over the physical. It does help them, though, that I happen to be a natural medium.

Of course it helps to use physical means too, like iodine and mercury removal and magnesium supplements and so on as Wakytweaky says. But I feel we can all run purely on “help from above” if it comes to the pinch. Maybe it will take twice as long to get the same quality dreams, etc that we would by physically cleansing ourselves continually, but I believe we’d still get the same quality dreams etc, or at least that I would.

Another way to look at this is in terms of psychic healing that comes from a higher D, and it activates the client’s organism to heal itself on a physical level. I suspect our organism has all the knowledge of how to overcome poisoning or suppression of any kind, and it’s simply a matter of activating the accessing of that knowledge.

Of course, it’s better to use both approaches, if you can. Keep doing the maximum you can, and be open to receiving extra help if you need it.


"it's better to use both approaches if you can." This is exactly how I feel.

When I read the books from Neal Donald Walsch in the ninetees (a Strange conversation with God), he spoke of the human being as a three-fold being.
We consist of a body, a mind and a spirit.
He goes to explain that to gain growth as a being, it is possible to work on eather one of these three parts and the other two will follow. (in nutshell :))

After working on the mind part of my being for about 12 years to get over my depressions and mallfunctioning in society without much succes, I did everything from psycho analyses to emotional body work, I figured to change course and give it a go to work on the body part for a change.... and change is what I got.
In a litle of a years time, I changed from someone who had regular suicidal thoughts (probably due to the mercury levels), CVS symptomes, PTSD symptomes and many more, to someone who is glad with the way his life is going, a smile on his face for large parts of the day and slowly getting in touch with the spiritual side of him, all due to a different diet, a detoxicification program and food supplements... and the intent to do it ofcourse.

So for me, the statements that Neal D. Walsch made, is true.

Further... There are many accounts of people who became enlightened and in the process gained in physical health in the process, without a diet of some sorts.
Breathenarians are a perfect example of people who get their goodies from a non psysical level and still stay healthy.

[Eram]

(Unfortunately it doesn’t seem to be possible, or easy, to get something like Lugol’s in Australia these days.) I’ve certainly noticed this makes it easier for me to come up with original ideas.


Thanks for that tip.
I've been looking for a iodine solution in the Netherlands or belgium, but without succes..
I didn't know that it also goes by the name of Lugol's

Hulda Clarke has an excellent website (http://www.clarknederland.nl/shop/jodium-oplossing-lugols-jodium/16/22/252/) in the netherlands that sells Lugol's iodine for a fair price, so I ordered some.


I thought to check for it in Australia as well, but no succes under the name of Hulda Clarke.

There is a website however that sells Lugol's there.
http://www.custommedicine.com.au/shop/products/Lugol%27s-Solution-50ml.html

Hope this is of help to you :)

[TraineeHuman]

Awake has asked about how to go OB in 6D. For most people, one thing which certainly won’t help them learn to do this is to give themselves the hypnotic command to: “Go to 6D.” (This will only help if you already can consciously go to 6D. Buhlmann is a hypnotherapist, and unfortunately the only “exercises” he seems to know are all hypnotherapy exercises, unfortunately.)

On the other hand, it’s very helpful for you to first have some direct experience of 6D reality while you aren’t fully OB there. One of the most reliable ways to do this is through practicing meditation.

After a few months or less of daily meditation practice, people these days do seem to acquire significant experience of some levels or other of formlessness. The only trouble is, it may be confusing for a person to identify that what they are experiencing is formless. Partly this is because of the conditioning the education system gives us, that everything that’s real has a specific form. Partly also, beginners at meditation often resist wanting to look deeply into any kind of formlessness, or taking it seriously. Instead they’ll be annoyed by all the “fogginess” that they suppose is getting in their way.

If you practice contemplation (for a description of which see post # 301), you enter formlessness each time you contemplate. You do so at the moment you run out of conscious or verbal thoughts regarding the subject of your contemplation.

Another example of something in 6D is whenever you have an insight or an original idea on the tip of your tongue, but you haven’t quite managed to put it into words yet. Still you know that it’s there, and that it will be expressed by the right words and concepts once you find them.

Once you have developed at least a vague half-familiarity with what 6D is like, I guess a hypnotic command to yourself to go there is as good a concentration method as any to take you there, and a very efficient one too. Unfortunately, though, Awake, it seems to be the case that most people at first still seem to need to get OB in 4D and then go to 6D from there.

I love doing physical forms of meditation such as Sufi whirling or walking q’i gong, and I find these seem to take me to 6D once I’ve finished. Maybe that’s just me, but I guess it’s another road you might like to try, Awake. To me almost all forms of meditation and psychic practices seem to go to the same place, with minor variations. But the trouble is, until you actually do them properly you won’t notice how similar they all are.

[TraineeHuman]

The other simple way to know when you are experiencing 6D or higher is when you experience expansion of your energies or consciousness to the point where they appear to become infinite – or to go definitely further than the horizon in any direction.

In my childhood, my adolescence and my twenties I tried a variety of meditation methods, sometimes without realizing that is what they were. But with each one there was the same pattern of progression.

Let’s say the method is repeating a mantra over and over in your mind. After a while (maybe a week, a month, or whatever), it seems like everything, in perfect unison, in the space around you is repeating the mantra over and over, not just your mind. And somehow that appears to be totally “normal” and happily so. Then the size of the physical area in which this seems to be happening gradually expands. It’s a bit mindblowing at first, or maybe even slightly frightening.

At a certain point the physical area involved gets bigger than to the horizon in every direction. That’s the point where, if you notice carefully, it becomes non-physical and now contains the physical as a part, inside of it. Welcome to 6D. I’ll leave it to you all to discover what else you experience there. It's all fun, basically. Experience the infinite no longer as a mathematical concept but as a simple reality you directly see and feel.

[kintun]

Hi!
Reading your last posts TH, I thought I could share a couple of experiences I had some years ago:
My cousin (psychologist, with great experience in hypnosis and past lives) was trying to hypnotize me to remember some strange time loss in my life. The thing is that I only got very very relaxed and saw nothing but blackness. And I felt this wonderful feeling of being nothing, just like energy or air, if you could call it that way and the sensation of expansion and fulfillness was amazing!! It felt as if I was an idea, a feeling, I don't know how to explain it really. ..but I could expand and fill space, and embrace it too all at the same time. It felt so different than being human....I had no limits o boundaries, no up or down, no inside or outside...I don't know how to put it in words....
Would you say this was something like 6D??

[TraineeHuman]

Hi!
Reading your last posts TH, I thought I could share a couple of experiences I had some years ago:
My cousin (psychologist, with great experience in hypnosis and past lives) was trying to hypnotize me to remember some strange time loss in my life. The thing is that I only got very very relaxed and saw nothing but blackness. And I felt this wonderful feeling of being nothing, just like energy or air, if you could call it that way and the sensation of expansion and fulfillness was amazing!! It felt as if I was an idea, a feeling, I don't know how to explain it really. ..but I could expand and fill space, and embrace it too all at the same time. It felt so different than being human....I had no limits o boundaries, no up or down, no inside or outside...I don't know how to put it in words....
Would you say this was something like 6D??

Seeing nothing but blackness means that the person hasn't learnt to switch on the "sight" of their awareness in 6D yet, but at least they are there, they've walked through the door, yes indeed, kintun. There isn't any matter or physical energy in 6D, so the person's mind is likely to "see" blackness at first because that's how the mind habitually portrays complete absence of matter. That blackness is only in the person's mind. Eventually the person will learn how to "turn the lights on" and start to discern what kinds of beings and things are there instead of anything resembling the "lumps" that we know as bodies. (I'd say you probably did learn to do this between physical lives when you were living in 6D. I'd say you saw blackness during your hypnosis session because right now your mind has gotten itself used to handling and expecting the physical.)

At the very least, people seem to soon experience that the "darkness" is, paradoxically, more bright than what we're used to anywhere in the physical. And it's also more satisfying, more sweet, more joyful than anything in the physical world. And it's everywhere there.

And the world there isn't empty at all, despite the initial impression that it is. It's just more -- well, abstract. Usually, in the physical world, we say something is abstract because it doesn't exist in the physical. In 6D it's reversed. Abstract things are concrete there, but almost anything that's concrete in the physical becomes only faintly real there.

Plato tried to describe what the 5D world is like by saying that it's a world where ideal or general forms are real, but concrete examples of them are less fully real. The 6D involves going even further and throwing away general forms as themselves unreal too.

You can think of the 6D world as the world where what is real is "ideas" or "instinctive sensings", before either of these get put into words. Attaching a word-label pulls them down into 5D. But from a 6D point of view, for example, the reality of you walking down the street, say, reduces to a combination of pre-verbal ideas of "street" and "walking" and "you".

[TraineeHuman]

How can you fix your mind or your attention on the HS if you have no consciousness of it, or no conscious experience of it? You can’t. Buhlmann’s instruction “Go to the HS” makes no sense at all in that situation.

You can only concentrate on the idea – the idea of “the HS” that you have no idea what it really is, or perhaps the idea of something Divine working within you, or the idea of whatever you feel in your heart as a force inside that you know is working inside to liberate everything you are.

Whatever you concentrate on the idea of then, you must consider the HS as something different from the mind and its thoughts, your emotional self and its feelings, and your body and all its actions and impulses. Something totally separate yet pervading all of you without being involved directly.

[TraineeHuman]

In the meditation traditions the practice is not to “go to 6D” but instead to wait for 6D or higher to come to you and into your body and mind. The way one does this is by cultivating the experience of peace, or stillness, during meditation, by learning to stay detached from the mechanical thinking process. In fact, the mainstream teaching in both the Jewish and the Christian meditation traditions has been that it’s impossible to go further than that by your own efforts; and that only “grace” will take you further.

That peace or stillness can take two different modes at different times. Sometimes it takes a very joyful mode, where it’s like a beautiful, delicious nectar. At other times it takes the mode that’s neither pleasant nor unpleasant, but is just clear and empty – and a little weird, too, but it just is. The peace or stillness gives one a great foundation for perceiving what's in the higher dimensions.

Then again, once you’ve learnt to bring 6D in via the stillness, it does make sense to go travel there to explore it. As I’ve said, several years after traveling in 4D I started trying 5D, but only because I read someone’s suggestion that tat was worthwhile, and even more interesting. Similarly, a year or so later I decided to “go to 6D”, and I was ready for that too.

[TraineeHuman]

I guess a common phenomenon for some dedicated individuals is to be able to “hear” the HS. We’ve seen Awake tapping into this at least for a time, as he mentions in #344.

Being able to “hear” the HS does seem to come at around the same point when you acquire the ability to begin to travel in 6D. But it’s a lot less slippery than coping with formlessness.

As I understand it, what people call “the HS” normally means the part of ourselves that lies 6D and beyond. In 6D, words are no longer used. But it’s possible to grab the meaning of any communication and pull it down into 5D, where the right words get attached. In that way, people can think of their HS as “talking” to them in words.

But the question is, are you going to listen? The HS doesn’t compromise or pussyfoot. It will keep bringing up truths about your life that you often won’t want to face, or at least not so bluntly and directly. The HS will keep leading you out of your comfort zone. Do you really want to put yourself in embarrassing or uncomfortable situations, just because they’ll help you become free of physical world “karma” quicker? Most people don’t. I think undoubtedly the “narrow path” or the “strait gate” that Jesus speaks of is precisely this.

Still, it’s not nearly as tough as it might sound. Yes, it is “narrow”, because you either listen to and obey your HS or you don’t. But as I mentioned in posts #112 to #114 and #119, once you’re aware of having “two selves”, one of which is your HS, suffering is greatly reduced because the HS brings itself down into the physical world and makes most of the suffering vanish.

The other reason why it isn’t as tough as it sounds is as follows. After a while you get used to doing all those uncomfortable things. Pain or fear are only there for a moment, at the beginning, and then you just kind of sail on through them and leave them behind. So it eventually becomes a habit to listen to your HS most of the time.

[AwakeInADream]

Thanks TH and everyone who has posted recently!:) The last few pages have been priceless to me, and a lot of things are starting to make sense to me now. Its also a great validation that many of us are having similar experiences.

TH, from your description of 6D it has become clear to me that I have experienced this many times in meditation over the years, I just didn't know what it was called. Also it usually ends very quickly because whenever my perceptions start to change mode, it excites me and frightens me at the same time, enlivening me back into mental activity.

I was curious today to see if I could get into 6D again so that I could observe it properly. So I meditated and found the expansion of space happening after a few minutes, but because I knew more about what was happening, I was able to observe it for much longer this time. Also I was able to 'push it out' a little further than it had ever been before using only the intention to do it, and that's when the feelings got a little more intense. Beautiful feelings of peace, and others somewhere between joy and bliss. I enjoyed this for quite a while, and it was a great and new experience for me because even though I have meditated for more than 10 years off and on, I've never really payed to much attention to how it feels. In fact I have mostly avoided feelings in meditation, and tried to be as empty as possible, (although at times I have used the 'artificial' feeling of 'unconditional love' as a focus object). So now I've realized that I can expand the space once I'm there, I have something to work with and develop.

Is it possible that this small amount of control I have found can help me to eventually go travelling in 6D?

Also, can you give us any tips as to how to turn the lights on whilst we are there?
(I had a strange sense of sight and depth but in darkness)

And, my main motivation for wanting to have an OBE is so that I can speak with my guides and guardian angels, so which dimension would most easily facilitate conscious communication with them?

(I've seen a man in a white robe with white hair and beard (a stereotype I know) in very vivid dreams on 3 occasions and he communicates with me mind to mind in pure wordless thoughts, I think he might be a guide, but the knowledge just doesn't filter through)

Cheers!:)

Awake

-----------------------
Oh! I've also found that I can cause the crown tingling sensations to happen anytime I still my mind and focus, but they are more intense when they happen on their own. I feel energy flowing in through my hands and feet, I don't feel anything then until they resurface in my skull where the flow gets a little more complex before coming up out through my crown. I guess this is why I'm happy all the time without any real reason to be(for the last 6 months), it sure beats the deep depression I had to go through in getting to this point. (I didn't get the job I went for and even that didn't phase me, HS has better plans for me:))

So I'm going to forget all about the chakras for now and just work with what I know is really there.:)

Would it be advisable for me to consciously intensify these energies (or redirect them), or should I just let them do they're thing?

[AwakeInADream]

TH, you've just reminded me. I keep asking my HS 'what should I do now' and 'what job should I apply for' using the 30 second meditation exercise, and I keep getting the similar images popping up. I keep seeing dogs. Does the image of the dog simply mean 'obey the HS'?

EDIT: And I've noticed that suffering is something I can choose not to do now. I've never felt so hopeful, even though I appear to have so little. I sense a great hope for the world as a whole too, no matter how it looks on the surface. Something wonderful is just there waiting for everyone in the world to see it.

[kintun]

I guess a common phenomenon for some dedicated individuals is to be able to “hear” the HS. We’ve seen Awake tapping into this at least for a time, as he mentions in #344.

Being able to “hear” the HS does seem to come at around the same point when you acquire the ability to begin to travel in 6D. But it’s a lot less slippery than coping with formlessness.

As I understand it, what people call “the HS” normally means the part of ourselves that lies 6D and beyond. In 6D, words are no longer used. But it’s possible to grab the meaning of any communication and pull it down into 5D, where the right words get attached. In that way, people can think of their HS as “talking” to them in words.

But the question is, are you going to listen? The HS doesn’t compromise or pussyfoot. It will keep bringing up truths about your life that you often won’t want to face, or at least not so bluntly and directly. The HS will keep leading you out of your comfort zone. Do you really want to put yourself in embarrassing or uncomfortable situations, just because they’ll help you become free of physical world “karma” quicker? Most people don’t. I think undoubtedly the “narrow path” or the “strait gate” that Jesus speaks of is precisely this.

Still, it’s not nearly as tough as it might sound. Yes, it is “narrow”, because you either listen to and obey your HS or you don’t. But as I mentioned in posts #112 to #114 and #119, once you’re aware of having “two selves”, one of which is your HS, suffering is greatly reduced because the HS brings itself down into the physical world and makes most of the suffering vanish.

The other reason why it isn’t as tough as it sounds is as follows. After a while you get used to doing all those uncomfortable things. Pain or fear are only there for a moment, at the beginning, and then you just kind of sail on through them and leave them behind. So it eventually becomes a habit to listen to your HS most of the time.

Well, I couldn't agree more with you.
I started listening and obeying mi HS many years ago, in my adolescence, mainly because I liked to rebel to anything and anyone and because I thought it was fun to follow "my strange" ideas jajaja
After a couple of decades it happens as you say, its a habit. And when I don't follow the path I regret it always. What in the beginning seemed strange, out of place or risky now seems to be the only right and rational way to do things.

[TraineeHuman]

I keep asking my HS 'what should I do now' and 'what job should I apply for' using the 30 second meditation exercise, and I keep getting the similar images popping up. I keep seeing dogs. Does the image of the dog simply mean 'obey the HS'?


Awake, I’m glad to hear you’ve made progress in certain things. But I’ve never come across anyone else who wasn’t able to understand what their HS’s answer was using the 30-second exercise. Sorry, but what I suspect is that you subconsciously don’t want to receive the HS’s answer, because if you did you realise you’d need to obey it.

I asked my HS the question about what field of work would be very good for you. The answer I got was training or lecturing or teaching. I’ll ask my HS again tomorrow, and PM you with the answer I get then.

“Dogs” could mean almost anything. It could mean customer service, or security, or courier work, or vetinary work. Unfortunately, I suspect it could also mean in some way that subconsciously you consider any job may be demeaning, in a way making your life into that of a “dog” if you work in a job.

[TraineeHuman]

Is it possible that this small amount of control I have found can help me to eventually go travelling in 6D?

Also, can you give us any tips as to how to turn the lights on whilst we are there?
(I had a strange sense of sight and depth but in darkness)

And, my main motivation for wanting to have an OBE is so that I can speak with my guides and guardian angels, so which dimension would most easily facilitate conscious communication with them?

(I've seen a man in a white robe with white hair and beard (a stereotype I know) in very vivid dreams on 3 occasions and he communicates with me mind to mind in pure wordless thoughts, I think he might be a guide, but the knowledge just doesn't filter through)
...
So I'm going to forget all about the chakras for now and just work with what I know is really there.:)
...

First of all it’s necessary to set up a proper relationship with your HS, before worrying about meeting and chatting with your GAs and guides. Your HS is the real you, after all. What your HS wants is what you really want, deep inside, but sometimes you don’t know it.

Communicating regularly with your GAs is a very rare, very advanced skill. Why are you even worrying about it, when they’re already there doing their job anyway? It could take half a lifetime to develop such a skill, and then only if you are extremely clairvoyant naturally to start with. Communicating with guides is much easier, but can be very dangerous if any of your “guides” is one of your past-life personalities. It can also be dangerous because you can make yourself vulnerable to being influenced by deceptive beings. You only need to listen to you – to your HS. Believe me, the others won’t have any information different what the HS has. (I'm speaking from experience.)

I don’t want to say too much about how to navigate in 6D because I consider it’s very important for a person to find that out for themselves. Otherwise, how will they find their way to 13D? 13D is where you go back to Source.

[TraineeHuman]

Before I continue with some comments in response to some of Awake’s recent posts, I’d like to make some comments about reprogramming techniques, and particularly about the use of affirmations and other hypnotic techniques.

Personally I’m in favor of anything that a person finds is bringing them results. As someone with degrees in psychology and social work and some professional background in those fields, I do approve of the use of affirmations or hypnosis to overcome such problems as e.g. smoking addiction. Admittedly, I find they don’t usually work completely on their own. For example, it’s necessary to find a pleasant activity that substitutes for smoking. Otherwise affirmations, etc won’t make any lasting difference.

I can also believe that affirmations will work well for some people to give them initial experiences of astral travel.

On the other hand, all the meditation masters and gurus agree with me that it’s not a likely way to ever experience Source. I guess a person can come to first experience Source by almost any means, but let me briefly explain why it’s normally considered unlikely – though admittedly not impossible.

Briefly, Source means freedom from programming. So, adding extra self-programming is, at least initially, going in the exact opposite direction. Or, let’s look at the trouble with affirmations. If you make an affirmation that: “I have ten million dollars,” there’s still a voice in your head that’s saying: “No, actually you’re struggling to scrape the rent together for this week.” So, an affirmation involves you repressing that other voice. The trouble is, all you do is push the opposing voice deeper inside your mind-heart. You haven’t gotten rid of it, at all. Eventually you’ll need to face it and thereby remove it. But you can’t do that by any reprogramming technique. To be in touch with Source you need to have cleaned up most of that inner rubbish.

Perhaps I should also mention that not just the spiritual masters but virtually all humanistic or transpersonal or person-centred or post-Jungian psychologists share my misgivings regarding reprogramming of any sort – be it hypnotherapy or neurolinguistic programming (for which we should “thank” Tony Robbins) or the “think and grow rich” type of “philosophy”. Unfortunately, in my experience the rare people who are successful with the latter seem in practice to live by greed with no awareness of its consequences. As a local business “guru” put it: “There’s no good or evil. There’s only outcomes, that’s all.” Isn’t that the kind of thing we at Avalon deplore?

[TraineeHuman]

How does one let the HS in? Awake, my overall advice to you would be to just let the peace and stillness deepen when you meditate. I get it that in the past you’ve (as far as I can tell) tried to kind of repress your thoughts and consciousness. And now you’ve removed that repression, so there’s some kind or other of “organic” movement in that consciousness of yours while you meditate. (Peace doesn’t mean that nothing is happening!) Whatever you’re doing now, it seems clear you’re moving in the direction of mastering your consciousness. Just allow that positive, peaceful consciousness -- which is 6D and higher – to be there, and let anything that interferes with it drop away of its own momentum.

Just stand back, as it were, from your thoughts, and be with the peace. You can also, if you like, call down the mighty higher (D) parts of yourself, or just quietly expect to receive their help.

And the name of those higher D parts is silence, silence from above. And be patient. Don’t get discouraged if you don’t see immediate results – because that would be to blow the silence and go back to where you were at an earlier stage.

What will gradually then happen is that the settled condition of peace in your inner being will come out and begin to take over in your everyday life as well – no matter if you are busy at work, or in conversation, or whatever. Your inner being then feels like your real self, while your outer being starts to feel like something superficial, just an instrument through which your inner being – your HS – acts on life.

I would suggest you forget most of the questions you’ve been asking, and instead wait until this inner-for-outer transformation has happened. If your questions are still important then, I dare say you’ll be able to answer most of them yourself.

[TraineeHuman]

The higher dimensions are experienced as inner rather than higher. For a long time, if my experience when I went through all this in adolescence is anything to go by, you’ll find your consciousness will be split between inner and outer. Clark Kent and Superman. I lived with that for years. As far as I’ve observed, everybody on the road to Source experiences it too. All the way till you finally reach Source.

Up to now, your outer consciousness has been “normal” for you. It has been the stronger influence. It has been able to interfere with or stop your experience of higher states, most of the time – as so many of you have said!

Now – or soon enough -- there comes a point where somehow the inner Superman gradually emerges. At that point you know that the Superman in you is separate from the lazy, dull, petty outer you. But Superman has profound peace, and that makes him free. He no longer identifies with the outer, and he isn’t subject to what it wants.

But the sense of alienation from the life of the outer is hard to take. It took me many years before I really learnt how to bring about “descension”, to bring truth and meaning and bliss into the chaotic and rather meaningless world of the outer. In the meanwhile, Superman was stuck working as a second-rate dull-as-dishwater reporter (well, something else, but the equivalent of that). Actually, of course, there’s another side to the story. You start to discover you have great powers, and great creativity. They only come because the inner you is kind of surrendered to the whole, but in your more “mountaintop” moments they are undeniably there, and you find you can cause big effects around you. Then you go back into a phone booth and change back into the almost pathetic outer you. Or it may seem pathetic to others at times, because they sense that, unlike them, the outer isn’t so important to you, not the way it is to them.

[TraineeHuman]

For the benefit of everybody who feels – as we all often do -- that they don’t have enough time to devote to esoteric exercises and self-enquiry and so on, I’d like to share some details of some of my own life’s experiences. I’ve been kind of obsessed with self-development and spirituality (and creativity) most of my life, since early adolescence. The extraordinary thing has been how much time and money I managed to find to support this huge “habit”.

In the last week I’ve reached age 63, but so far in my life I’ve worked full-time as an employee or contractor 17 years, plus very much as a part-time employee for one year, plus self-employed in my own businesses (usually under 30 hours a week) for four and a half years. And that’s it. No, I didn’t start working at 40. But somehow I’ve managed to “skip” about 15 years’ (or more) worth of full-time work and never go broke.

How? At a conscious level, I guess I’d have to say it’s partly a mystery. But I also know the answer is that getting (often expensive, or very expensive) instruction and development from professionals in these areas was so totally important to me, I subconsciously knew I just had to earn a huge amount of money just to make it possible and keep making it possible. But I never really consciously thought of myself as deserving a very high level of financial reward for my efforts. My focus wasn’t on the money at all. It was totally fixed on my “drug of choice”, so to speak.

No doubt it helped that I had a mother who in my childhood had loved me more affectionately than any other mother. It was quite humorous when my mother got divorced and when I was ten she remarried. My stepfather soon got into calling me “your majesty”, because no matter how he treated me he couldn’t train me out of behaving like I was a king. Not that I ever thought of it that way. As far as I was concerned, I was behaving normally, like any kid. It just so happened that I had been loved so intensely --and yes, unconditionally – that I instinctively felt and knew the whole world was mine.

OK, so you probably weren’t fortunate enough to have been loved and prized so fabulously by a parent. But I would still ask you: How much do you really love yourself and passionately care about the importance of your self-development? How valuable do you fearlessly dare to be?

How did I manage in total to spend as much time during my life just on being trained in self-enquiry and self-development as I did on working? I don’t know. It’s a mystery, and a miracle. OK, I never had any kids to support. But still, it was no accident that I found that much money and that much time, and hundreds of (often) the finest teachers. No accident at all. It was because I had the thirst. Not so much the desire, but just a natural ultra-strong attraction. Have that, and everything else is just details. Don’t have that, and my friend, I suggest you need to discover how valuable and extraordinary you are. You need to learn to like and even love yourself ever so much, and somehow to snap to it now.

I happen to know you can really do it.

[TraineeHuman]

Listening to the “voice” of my HS has been very important to me throughout most of my life.

When you take away or “switch off” everything in the outer you – all the likes and dislikes --, only then do you sometimes “hear” the “still small voice” of your HS. This is because the HS is very subtle, very gentle, very tender. I didn’t say it isn’t powerful, though!

The trouble is, it “speaks” so softly, we often have too much noise going on in the outer to hear its message. Sometimes, too, the HS simply has no comment regarding a situation. For me it has been the “petrol” that has kept me passionate about the most ordinary experiences of life. It has kind of magically kept transforming any day or any activity so that to me it wasn’t dull or alienating.

The other difficulty is that the HS just deals in the truth. But even, for example, in putting the HS’s “message” into words our mind often distorts what’s being communicated. It distorts it because we all at times fail to totally face some aspect of the truth about ourselves or our situation.

To listen or even go to our HS we have to become very sensitive, very vulnerable, very peaceful, very gentle. And it won’t work to carry any identity with us at all, including an identity of being very vulnerable etc. I believe this is the point of the saying, attributed to Jesus, that “unless a person becomes like a little child again, they cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.” If you want to “go to” (or, I would say, become more aware of and open to) the HS, let go and be as tender and vulnerable as a young baby.

But do it when you can enjoy peace on your own, like sitting under the shade of a big tree on a hot day. Don't do it any time when you have to deal with sociopathic individuals who are around, as they'll just take advantage of your vulnerability.

[AwakeInADream]

I haven't been able to achieve that 6D expansion feeling in meditation at all this week, but on Monday I did hear my own voice speak loud and clear "I'm not ready yet", and a little while later a female voice spoke using recognizable English words, but without forming a coherent sentence structure. I got the impression that the latter voice didn't have my best interests at heart, but I didn't worry too much about it. Perhaps HS was warning me off 6D investigations, just for that time whilst she was around?

My second meditation that day gave me a small two tone purple blob that got bigger and smaller, perhaps a sign that the lights are starting to turn on?
What followed were a series of scenes (still shadowy, no colour) showing lots of people walking around wide open spaces and cities, and later I got a few more specific objects. One of these was an old style bicycle, but my favorite was a painting on a canvas, done in the style of William Blake, depicting and angel crouching down on the ground, but balancing on his hip toes, and in order to compensate for the weight of the wings on his back he was leaning slightly forward and had his arms outstretched with palms facing down, on the diagonal pointing to the ground. Apart from being a nice looking and well composed painting (that I may try to replicate myself), I think that this image may have been symbolic too, of balancing the human and divine aspects of our natures?

It was like the image below except from the side, and without a beard. Another difference was the wings. Blake didn't often portray angels as having wings.

http://www.passionforpaintings.com/paintingdatabase/skin1/images/catalog/categories/oil%20paint/b/blake_william/[blake_william]the_omnipotent/small.jpg

[TraineeHuman]

I haven't been able to achieve that 6D expansion feeling in meditation at all this week, but on Monday I did hear my own voice speak loud and clear "I'm not ready yet", and a little while later a female voice spoke using recognizable English words, but without forming a coherent sentence structure. I got the impression that the latter voice didn't have my best interests at heart, but I didn't worry too much about it. Perhaps HS was warning me off 6D investigations, just for that time whilst she was around?

My second meditation that day gave me a small two tone purple blob that got bigger and smaller, perhaps a sign that the lights are starting to turn on?
What followed were a series of scenes (still shadowy, no colour) showing lots of people walking around wide open spaces and cities, and later I got a few more specific objects. One of these was an old style bicycle, but my favorite was a painting on a canvas, done in the style of William Blake, depicting and angel crouching down on the ground, but balancing on his hip toes, and in order to compensate for the weight of the wings on his back he was leaning slightly forward and had his arms outstretched with palms facing down, on the diagonal pointing to the ground. Apart from being a nice looking and well composed painting (that I may try to replicate myself), I think that this image may have been symbolic too, of balancing the human and divine aspects of our natures?

It was like the image below except from the side, and without a beard. Another difference was the wings. Blake didn't often portray angels as having wings.

http://www.passionforpaintings.com/paintingdatabase/skin1/images/catalog/categories/oil%20paint/b/blake_william/[blake_william]the_omnipotent/small.jpg

Awake, you are listening to your HS sufficiently well to hear roughly what it wants to tell you. Even though it’s telling you you’re not ready yet to go to a stage where you’re doing more, you’re still doing very well.

You were able to be aware of that female voice in your consciousness, and to clearly recognize that that voice wasn’t truly part of you. Very well done! Can you identify what female that might have been – mother, sister, some teacher, a former sweetheart?

Some of my biggest breakthroughs in getting freedom from my baggage have been where I identified that some major thread of who I had thought was me actually was the “voice” and the point of view of my mother, or my brother, or my stepfather, or a next door neighbour during my childhood, or one of several school teachers. These “voices” go even deeper than cords. They’re normally not “hitchhikers”, but when you unwind yourself from one of them you can see all sorts of parts of what you had believed was “you” fall away; you can see a whole layer of the onion get peeled right off. So, if you can locate that female voice inside you again, identify who it was. Confirm to yourself that that person wanted you to live under their thumb instead of being yourself. (Believe me, some people spend their entire lives subconsciously "being" the identity of one of their parents, or a combination of both parents, and they never know it till the day they die. That's only one reason why it's so important to "know thyself" ever so thoroughly.)

I’ve mentioned before that the HS often speaks to us in symbols. I’m not sure if it matters whether the angelic figure you saw meant your HS or a GA or what. Maybe the important point was that you are receiving direct help from the higher worlds, that there is a real response to your efforts going on from your HS.

I’d like to suggest you might benefit from keeping a notebook by your bedside, and jotting down any details you remember of your dreams, as soon as you wake up. Dreams are always symbolic communications from your HS regarding what things you aren’t fully facing in your life at that particular point in time. For most people, that seems to make it very hard for them to “listen” to the HS’s communication, even though they may accurately record the details of the dream. But it sounds like you’re overcoming your resistance to listening.

[AwakeInADream]

Thanks TH!:) I have started keeping a dream journal and yesterday I had a dream about a town full of people who were being subjected to a mind control experiment. They didn't realize that they could even leave the town in which they lived and knew nothing of the world outside. Their brainwaves had been altered in an unusual way and it made them all very content and happy, but also they were doing some very strange things as if they were all drunk or on drugs. I was able to look into their brains and I remember the exact frequencies they were set to. Right brain was 300Hz and left brain was at 225Hz, so they were out of sinc, but also impossibly high in the gamma range. I saw some names too but I couldn't remember them, also I saw a whole series of mugshots of people like James Holmes who had committed atrocities, and they all had self satisfied smirks on their faces.

I'm not sure if this dream was telling me anything about myself, or if it was just a commentary on whats happening in the world.

It's funny how I can often remember numbers from my dreams (no lottery numbers though lol), but never anything I've read in words...
(300 / 225 is 1.333333333 which I recognize as a musical interval (two and a half tones) as the 'A' note multiplied by 1.333... is the 'D' note)

[TraineeHuman]

I'm not sure if this dream was telling me anything about myself, or if it was just a commentary on whats happening in the world.

Every dream is telling you about yourself.

[AwakeInADream]

Ahh! It's starting to sink in now...The dream was about balance yet again. I keep getting symbols of balance in many different forms.

I'm unbalanced slightly, getting too spiritually 'high' and allowing myself to get carried away. I guess the numbers were telling me to work on my left brain a little more and to be more sensible and grounded. The angel was pointing to the ground too.

It hurts a little when my flaws are realized, but it's all good stuff.

Thanks TH!:)

[TraineeHuman]

Our higher consciousness (6D and above) is quite separate from the lower consciousness.

I’d like to ask everyone: What do you imagine it would do for you to experience OBEs regularly?

Well, once we know for a fact, for ourselves, that the higher consciousness, the HS, exists, we need to find a way to let it transform our outer being and our life in the physical world – don’t we? Having an experience of some higher dimension, whether through an OBE or meditation, or love or creativity or whatever, doesn’t change our outer being and our ordinary life. I’d like to suggest to you it’s useful, at first, only because it gradually shows us that we have a whole separate other consciousness, a higher consciousness.

Then it’s a matter of bringing the HS into our “inner body”. I’ve said recently that the higher dimensions (6D and higher) are experienced as inner. Strictly speaking they aren’t inner. But they’re no use to us until we bring them down into our “inner body” and find a way to keep them there more and more. From there – from that “descension” – they gradually take over and start to transform our lives.

Getting the HS to occupy the inner being and then to flow to the outer being usually seems to take many years. For many people the first step in beginning to bring their HS into their inner “body” is to keep a dream journal. Or, as in Awake’s case, to find some way to honestly listen to whatever the HS is saying to you this week or this half-week. That isn’t so different from reading your dream journal, provided you can find a way to make sense of the messages your HS has been sending in your dreams.

Once you become used to listening to some of your HS’s messages regularly, it’s not such a big step to start beginning to let the HS inside you.

[TraineeHuman]

Although the higher consciousness is separate from the outer, lower consciousness, at first you don’t clearly feel that separateness. This is because the pressure of the lower consciousness – of your baggage, including your laziness and your desires and your hurts – is too strong. Your lower consciousness keeps interrupting your experience of profound inner peace. It drowns it out.

That profound inner peace, once you have managed to make it strong enough to be stable and established permanently in you, is your HS in a passive "form", and not in its full "form". The full nature of your HS when fully realised, though it is very detached, is active, such as inspiring you and bringing you happiness and bringing you good advice.

So, one thing that requires patience is that you first need to establish that peace in a passive form. Although at that first stage you can still receive some communication from your HS – more clearly than before --, you won’t as yet clearly feel the complete separateness between the lower consciousness and the HS.

Finding out who the heck you are -- and truly being yourself, realizing yourself -- is such a long journey ...

[soleil]

good morning TH, i have a wild question. (i suppose its not that wild) these days have been hard as my daughter has been sharing the bed with my fiance and i. so, my OBE has been on the back burner...instead, i have been attempting daily HS contact, such as a few here - to follow my feelings/intuition instead of my interpretation/reasoning. what i want to ask, is

can a person's body energy/energy body (sensations) be used or perhaps turned into a communication (dowsing) tool. can we learn to communicate or received messaged in forms of energy feelings from our HS? like, left hand throbs or buzzes can be a 'no' and if a right hand is throbbing or buzzing then 'yes'?

is this even a possibility or is this just a wishful thought given our current limitations?

[kintun]

good morning TH, i have a wild question. (i suppose its not that wild) these days have been hard as my daughter has been sharing the bed with my fiance and i. so, my OBE has been on the back burner...instead, i have been attempting daily HS contact, such as a few here - to follow my feelings/intuition instead of my interpretation/reasoning. what i want to ask, is

can a person's body energy/energy body (sensations) be used or perhaps turned into a communication (dowsing) tool. can we learn to communicate or received messaged in forms of energy feelings from our HS? like, left hand throbs or buzzes can be a 'no' and if a right hand is throbbing or buzzing then 'yes'?

is this even a possibility or is this just a wishful thought given our current limitations?

Hi!
I hope you don't bother if I comment your post....
I don't know the answer to your question but what I can tell you is that communication with your HS sometimes is through feelings or "energy" as you call it and other times you can hear a clear voice with answers or directions. There isn't only one way of doing things and I suppose others here can share different ways of "listening". Sometimes you just get "signals".
I guess anything serves the same purpose. Even a smell can make you evoke a situation that your HS wants you to remember, where you can find an answer or point .
Once you get use to listening to your HS, information comes very very clear. In my case, even with names, pictures o people and places. It is very surprising!
I am certain you will achieve you goals with your HS, because you WANT to listen to it. And that gives you the awareness that is necessary to hear it.

Love to all

[TraineeHuman]

i have a wild question. (i suppose its not that wild) these days have been hard as my daughter has been sharing the bed with my fiance and i. so, my OBE has been on the back burner...instead, i have been attempting daily HS contact, such as a few here - to follow my feelings/intuition instead of my interpretation/reasoning. what i want to ask, is

can a person's body energy/energy body (sensations) be used or perhaps turned into a communication (dowsing) tool. can we learn to communicate or received messaged in forms of energy feelings from our HS? like, left hand throbs or buzzes can be a 'no' and if a right hand is throbbing or buzzing then 'yes'?

is this even a possibility or is this just a wishful thought given our current limitations?

teradactyl, what you’re talking about is, as you mention, often known as “dowsing”. I once met a man who was president of the American dowsing association for some years. The authorities used to use his services sometimes to find missing children, particularly in the wild, and he seemed to be extremely accurate at that 100% of the time. But his HS had already descended rather fully into his inner “body” and thence his outer body. Very few, if any, other professional psychics seemed to be able to match his level of accuracy.

I’ve seen various courses on dowsing, and they often claim that anyone can learn to dowse accurately from the time they start as a beginner. I’ve observed that is simply not true. It took me many years to learn to dowse with reasonable accuracy. Most dowsing courses do very briefly mention the need for what I call grounding, but they usually don’t give a proper or accurate description at all of what grounding really involves in detail. (I believe I first introduced the term “grounding” in this Forum and its predecessor Forums and clearly stressed how essential it is, though I guess others had also vaguely talked of the importance of being “centered” or whatever. It’s been gratifying to see the spread of understanding regarding that essential practice. Actually I believe I also first introduced the term “fear-mongering” in the old Camelot/Avalon Forums in June 2008. For the first two weeks or so all I got was extremely “anti” comments regarding my view. Then some two or three weeks later, suddenly the great majority seemed to agree with me it was obvious that fear-mongering was something to be carefully avoided.)

The reason I gave people the exercise in #24 was that it gives anybody an accurate and very reliable answer from their HS for at least two seconds, most of the time. Even that answer is in symbols or pictures, but Awake (despite his very positive and aware qualities) is the only person in about a hundred that I have come across who did not immediately clearly understand what the answer they got meant. (Some people initially get a blank doing that exercise. In that case they simply need to do the exercise again and ask the question of what the blank or blackness they got the first time means. I find it always works on the second try.)

As far as I’m aware, if you use your body (or a dowsing rod or pendulum) to try to get accurate answers from your HS, most of the “answers” you get will be misleading, until you’ve established a much stronger relationship with your HS. Consider how remote viewing is really one elaborate variety of dowsing. Even the best remote viewers in the world are lucky if 40% of them agree on anything.

One thing that you might pay some attention to, though, is omens and synchronicities. Frequently throughout my life I used to find it very hard to get certain choices to work. In such cases my HS and my GAs knew the choice was a bad one, and if I wasn’t listening at the time then they would resort to many omens and some synchronicities, until I sometimes managed to take the hint.

Once your HS has descended into you somewhat, from then on it will seem like life around you and the world around you is "talking to you" all the time, giving you feedback about yourself -- as kintun has just said. Years ago, someone said to me that the more spiritually evolved a person is, the quicker their karma comes back to them. Which meant that a sufficiently evolved person wouldn't have such an easy life in one sense, because they'd have to keep dealing fully with the consequences of whatever they have recently done. I guess that's true in a way in this sense that "the world" starts continually giving you little hints, particularly any time you wander off track from what would be best for you at the time.

[TraineeHuman]

teradactyl, there is a type of dowsing that seems to be 100% accurate regarding what's good for your body. I'm referring to muscle-testing, also known as kinesiology. The first book by its original founder, Dr. John Diamond, in the late 70s was called Your Body Does Not Lie.

While muscle-testing seems to be totally accurate regarding whether your body is allergic to something or whether some food is currently healthy for you or not, unfortunately I'm sceptical regarding how accurate it generally is if you muscle-test some thought or idea or choice by holding it in your mind and doing a muscle-test. I suspect that the test result will be positive or negative depending on whether or not you have more positive emotions in your mind, including your subconscious mind, regarding the topic in question. And the trouble is, some of those emotions will be part of your baggage, and not based on "objective" reality now.

[AwakeInADream]

Teradactyl :)

There is a similar method in NLP which is used to communicate with your unconscious mind, or different 'parts' of yourself, by asking these parts to give you different bodily signals.
For instance they would say "would the part of me that is responsible for ..........(a certain behaviour) please acknowledge by giving a bodily signal" etc., and in this way they would try to bring all of these different parts together in harmony to cooperate and act in the interests of the whole.

I would think that this method may be too hit and miss for HS communications though since it would be difficult to know for sure which 'part' of yourself would be coming through, and it may possibly be a little dangerous, like using a Ouija Board (unless you can recognize for sure which part is communicating).

I would say that the exercise in post #24 (30 second meditation) would be of much more use, as I have found it to be (I've got the hang of it now TH:) I just had to trust myself in my interpretations of the symbolism).

If you want to know how to communicate more effectively with HS just ask HS and do the post #24 exercise and ask HS "how may I more effectively and clearly communicate with Higher Self?", and HS will tell you. It sure started the ball rolling with me, and I'm sure that it strengthened the link, allowing me now to hear the odd sentence direct from HS in meditation and in dreams.

TraineeHuman :)

I'm getting more messages from HS now, but I'm also getting a few lower order messages too, possibly baggage from the past. In fact I was meditating the other evening and suddenly I had a loud clear voice (not my own) that insulted me, and the insult caused a shock in my heart. It said something like "I know it's only................but, You Stink!".
This didn't bother me too much, and I'm glad in a way that some of this negative stuff is releasing, but it was a bit of a shock.

Since then I've also seen a woman(slightly familiar looking to me) who was shaking her head from side to side at me, making me feel unworthy.

Also, in a dream HS alerted me to something (in a dream)which may be blocking me from leaving the body.
He said "I'm not sure I trust myself to make the correct moral decisions if I leave my body everyday", and the point was illustrated further by showing me an immature much younger version of myself (in a dream), who started to explain what he would do if he left his body, and he ended up saying "Yeah! I know what you mean". So it seems that there is a part of myself, that doesn't trust myself.

Before this interaction I was dreaming (I think:confused:) that I was out of my body, and I didn't have a body and as such I had a harder time moving about. I could go forwards and backwards which seemed to be like a camera zooming in and out, but I couldn't turn to look in any other direction. I was looking down from the sky at a slight angle, and I somehow ended up in the back of a car with my view fixed looking out of the back window watching the road fall away. I think this was more of a practice session in a lucid dream, but it was interesting.

Even though HS is bringing some slightly negative things to the surface, I know it is all to my benefit and so I'm pleased with how this is all going.

TH, would you say that to 'trust yourself' is equally as important as to 'love yourself'?
I think this is what HS is getting at...It's quite a ride I'm having:)

Edit: It's only just clicked "view fixed looking out of the back window", like one of those nodding dogs. :lol: I also think that the 'back seat of a car' is symbolic of me in some ways acting in the mask (or valence as Hubbard would say) of my father who is driving. When I met and made peace with my dad in a dream, I was also in the back seat of a car as he drove. I can't wait to take off all these masks I have.

[TraineeHuman]

I'm getting more messages from HS now, but I'm also getting a few lower order messages too, possibly baggage from the past. In fact I was meditating the other evening and suddenly I had a loud clear voice (not my own) that insulted me, and the insult caused a shock in my heart. It said something like "I know it's only................but, You Stink!".
This didn't bother me too much, and I'm glad in a way that some of this negative stuff is releasing, but it was a bit of a shock.

Since then I've also seen a woman(slightly familiar looking to me) who was shaking her head from side to side at me, making me feel unworthy.

Also, in a dream HS alerted me to something (in a dream)which may be blocking me from leaving the body.
He said "I'm not sure I trust myself to make the correct moral decisions if I leave my body everyday", and the point was illustrated further by showing me an immature much younger version of myself (in a dream), who started to explain what he would do if he left his body, and he ended up saying "Yeah! I know what you mean". So it seems that there is a part of myself, that doesn't trust myself.

...

Even though HS is bringing some slightly negative things to the surface, I know it is all to my benefit and so I'm pleased with how this is all going.


In my OP I mentioned the somewhat advanced skill of “seeing pictures”, which includes “seeing faces” (other than those of “guides”). One reason I mentioned it was because such “pictures” occur primarily in 4D. To see them, you don’t need to have your focus fully out of your physical body as you do when astral traveling.

But I considered the skill of “seeing pictures” worth mentioning because as far as I know no-one achieves the descent of the HS without first learning to use that skill. Eventually it becomes possible to ignore those “movies” if you wish. But first you need to be able to see them.

At the end of any such “movie” you are consciously left with an insight. That insight is the key that permanently liberates you from the particular piece of baggage that the “movie” was bringing up pictures from.

Those pictures are accurate visual memories from your past in this lifetime or from some previous lifetime(s). Or sometimes they will be memories from the former life of one of your “hitchhikers”.

I don’t normally watch those “movies” any more. But only the day before yesterday, I was walking over some distance and an insight flashed into my mind. That insight seemed to completely and finally resolve some issues I had had at a workplace eight years earlier. I guess I did glance at some fleeting images from my last two days at that workplace. But mostly my consciousness – indeed, my HS – was changing some of the unhappy conclusions and imagining myself saying what I now realised would have been the right things to resolve all emotional issues from my point of view and also fairly to others.

I see “pictures” any time I physically sit opposite a client in counselling or psychotherapy, or even a friend who is talking about an emotional problem or challenge. Within one minute I’ll see their face change, back to how they looked at some point in the past when they picked up some of the baggage – or as psychologists might say, when they were “fixated” or “traumatized” or “negatively conditioned”. Because I can “run” “pictures”, the face will change again to the person’s face at a younger age, and eventually to a face from a past lifetime, and often some ten or more past lifetimes.

What I do with any “face” is to (completely) nonjudgmentally allow it to be whatever it wants to be. I am effectively working as the client’s HS throughout all this. It’s very similar to Inelia Benz’s “fear processing” exercise, except that her exercise is done on oneself where here I normally do it with a client other than myself.

The reason a person gets “stuck” in the memory of some past incident is because they have never managed to re-view the incident in a very detached way and imagined the negativity in that incident doing its worst to them but this time they observed it failing to get the better of them.

I know that many people happen to visit me at night, usually while I’m sleeping. They do so for some psychotherapy (or whatever) courtesy of my HS. I know that this technique of running pictures happens to be one of the most common ones my HS uses. It doesn’t surprise me that a number of individuals who read this thread have learnt how to “run their (memory) pictures” a little, because a client does soon learn how to do it themselves to at least some degree.

Even the fact that you are seeing a face, say, means that you have already made much progress in shifting whatever baggage is connected to that face for you. It's a somewhat advanced skill, and it gladdens my heart to hear that a number of you are "seeing faces", however weird these may seem to you at the time.

Awake, if you don’t recognize who the woman is whose face you keep seeing, that means she’s either someone from very early childhood or a past lifetime or a “hitchhiker”.

Hitchhikers are very hard to get rid of. This is despite the fact that they are only the personality from someone who is dead, and hence they have no connection with an HS. I once asked one what it was doing, and it answered that it lived in the center of that client’s “heart”.

The only reason why a hitchhiker can have a hold on you is because they have some knowledge or skill or experience which you believe is vitally important but which you feel you’re lacking in. For instance, when I was a young child I decided that genuine spirituality was extremely important. But my father was an atheist and my mother vacillated between being an agnostic and an atheist. And the last they ever wanted to give me any opportunity to develop was my spiritual side. So I pulled in the personality of a Ch’an Buddhist head monk from fourth century China. The only problem was, in the culture and social arrangements of his time the community provided full financial support. It was therefore extremely dishonorable for a monk not to live in poverty, at least when it came to owning any assets. It took me much hard work to loosen that monk’s grip, and to ignore his loud insistence that he knew better. But the key was having insight into why I had invited him in in the first place, and into why I no longer need his advice or talents.

I’ll discuss self-doubt in another post, Awake.

[TraineeHuman]

Even though HS is bringing some slightly negative things to the surface, I know it is all to my benefit and so I'm pleased with how this is all going.

TH, would you say that to 'trust yourself' is equally as important as to 'love yourself'?


The more you get to be in touch with your HS, the more you will appreciate that it is your true nature. And it is God, it is “perfect” rather than in need of correction. You won’t be able to let your HS dwell inside you permanently until you get used to the feeling – not just the idea – that (the kingdom of) God really is fully within you, inside of you. And yes, that means you as you go about your business in this physical world of limitations and flaws and annoyances at every turn.

I have noticed that whenever a person gets to the insight that releases them from some major piece of baggage, that insight always involves forgiveness. But it especially involves the person’s perfectly forgiving themselves regarding the entire episode and that entire side of their (past) self. This doesn’t mean failing to take responsibility. Whatever has to be paid still has to be paid. But I have noticed it invariably involves the person getting to see the whole situation much as how the best attorney arguing the case in their defence would paint things. Given the finiteness and the limitations of life in this world, it’s ever so understandable that you stumbled wherever you did. You are still a perfect, infinite Being, and small wonder that you get clumsy now and then as you have for now been thrust into coping with a finite and imperfect world. It’s not ultimately your fault at all so much as it’s the fault of the imperfect nature of the physical world and the society you live in.

The other thing to note, Awake, is that as you free yourself of one piece of baggage you get served up all the other unresolved pieces of baggage from all your past lifetimes. Small wonder that you may sometimes be low in confidence. Just remember that most others probably aren’t facing their baggage as fully, not in their present lifetime anyway. That may make it much easier for them to be confident – because the inner challenges they have allowed themselves to face have probably been so tiny in comparison to what you are coping with.

But yes, whenever you are in touch with your HS you automatically see that you are very trustworthy, very deserving, very loveable, beautiful even as you are, warts and all, very likeable to yourself, very much accepted by the universe itself.

The funny thing is, it’s your HS that keeps making sure you keep having to face tougher and tougher issues coming mostly from your past lifetimes – until you reach the point where these have all been faced, and much of what’s left for you to face seems to just get easier and easier. Your HS is after all God. No matter that you may not know your HS very well. Nor that you are ultimately your HS, and are just hiding that fact from yourself in some cosmic play of hide-and-seek.

[TraineeHuman]

I was meditating the other evening and suddenly I had a loud clear voice (not my own) that insulted me, and the insult caused a shock in my heart. It said something like "I know it's only................but, You Stink!".
This didn't bother me too much, and I'm glad in a way that some of this negative stuff is releasing, but it was a bit of a shock.
... I can't wait to take off all these masks I have.

The insult "caused a shock in your heart"? Then it does bother you "much", surely? Let me make it clear that such "voices" inside you are there all the time, and the only difference is that in the past you've tuned out from being able to hear them. And often such "voices" are an entire worldview, an entire belief system about life, the universe and everything, and of course not your own. The extraordinary thing is that we adopt them as part of our own in great detail, and whole areas of our lives or our attitudes aren't ours but just unquestioningly copied from someone else, some other voice. And as with this voice, its the voice of somebody who had it in for you! Sooner or later you need to locate memories of incidents where that voice's point of view was in operation -- maybe in relation to your looking for work or how you had performed in certain jobs. Then you need to briefly "reclaim" your life by recognizing to yourself that everything you did under the influence of that voice's point of view wasn't "your" life but someone else's theft of parts of what should have been your life. There's been a huge amount of nonsense on the forum about the "theft of souls" after death, but such a thing can only happen partly,and while one is alive in the physical, and this is how it happens.

[TraineeHuman]

I would say that the exercise in post #24 (30 second meditation) would be of much more use, as I have found it to be (I've got the hang of it now TH:) I just had to trust myself in my interpretations of the symbolism).

If you want to know how to communicate more effectively with HS just ask HS and do the post #24 exercise and ask HS "how may I more effectively and clearly communicate with Higher Self?", and HS will tell you. It sure started the ball rolling with me, and I'm sure that it strengthened the link, allowing me now to hear the odd sentence direct from HS in meditation and in dreams.


How sensible is that! Using the exercise in post #24 probably every day, so that every day you get direct contact with your HS regarding something important in your life.

Consider how this can put you in almost as good a position as someone in whom the HS is already definitely present. At first the HS will only be present some of the time in an individual, and the individual goes through a process of recognizing that the HS really is separate and they really do know it is there inside them at least some of the time.

It’s a further step before the individual knows the HS is not only really separate from (what they have thought of as) them but is continually present inside them. Evidently kintun has reached that stage or further already.

There’s a further stage, where it suddenly seems like your body doesn’t have anyone “driving” it, or like you’re kind of floating in “free-fall” at least some of the time, in your daily life. It’s as if “you” have now become “nothing”. This happens at the stage where for you the stability of the HS becomes stronger and more real than that of the outer self.

A stage beyond that again is where the HS “enters” the physical in a big way, leaving the individual free of many forms of unhappiness.

[TraineeHuman]

Although the HS tends to be quite forthcoming about what choices may be wiser for an individual, it doesn’t see the individual in nearly as negative a light as the individual usually sees themselves.

It takes time for us as liberation-seeking adults to realise that in many ways society teaches us from childhood that we aren’t very capable. But this is a lie, and the HS very clearly sees that it is. The trouble is that, for example, from some point in primary school onwards the education system teaches young children that they are only worth a seven out of ten, or a six out of ten. Young children take this very, very seriously. They have been declared to be incurably flawed, much as the Christian doctrine that they are blemished in a vile way because of “original sin” – which means they are greatly handicapped simply because they got born.

In so many ways, society and culture teach us in childhood and adolescence that we can’t trust ourselves, and that our efforts are always rather lacking. It’s the old trick of putting a rope around a baby elephant’s leg, and then the huge adult elephant has grown up firmly believing that a little rope around its leg is too strong to break. In reality, the adult elephant can snap that rope with a quick jerk of its foot any time. But the elephant never does this.

In adulthood we have such things as debt traps to continue the mentality of us being inadequate.

For all these reasons, you need to start appreciating yourself more. You need to pause and take time to value and prize how resourceful and intelligent and courageous and caring and whatever you are. I never cease to be amazed at how brilliant and intuitive and brave and vulnerable and boundary-pushing human beings so often are. But you absolutely need to do this, simply to start bringing some balance to how you see your outer self.

You need to gradually learn to have great self-esteem for your outer self (like you did at age three) – and that’s before we’ve even brought in the impacts of any input from your HS. Self-esteem is like pride, except it’s genuine and honest. Pride can quite often be an ego distortion of some genuine self-esteem, and such false pride is no doubt there only because the person is starving themselves from seeing many of the other areas where they legitimately should have self-esteem also. Self-esteem goes with self-respect. I like Erich Fromm’s statement that you can tell how much self-respect a person really has because it’s the same as how much respect they show to others.

Somehow you have to unlearn devaluing your outer self. How else can you become a proper, highly dignified vessel for your Higher Self?

[Kraut]

TraineeHuman, that was a remarkable post. Thank you.

[TraineeHuman]

The HS can’t enter fully into your life unless you basically let go of your wants, your desires, your expectations. Perhaps not fully. But you need to find some way to basically surrender to the Divine, to Source. Then you just trust in it. Ahh, what a relief! Peace at last. It’s not such a big deal. In a way, all that changes then is that you have stepped out of the narrowness of being obsessively self-centered and you discover that all along you were closely united with the rest of the Universe anyway. That narrowness was a fiction all along, and was the cause of most of your suffering.

Everything you do starts to become a gift to Source instead of a gift to ego, which was always a false and distorted version of “you” anyway. Somewhere in the Bible it says: “Cast your bread upon the waters …”, and I think the idea is that the waters will bring your bread or something even tastier back to you. And the universe has always worked that way, but now you’re starting to walk in step with the Universal consciousness. Just keep giving wherever it’s practical to do so at any level, and pretty soon you’ll find you’re getting included much more deeply and satisfyingly in the workings of everything and in the lives of those around you at a level that counts. The more you keep giving, the more you find you’re receiving, but it soon reaches the point where it would be ridiculous for you to keep score.

I’m not saying stop making plans. At a practical level you still have to make money and manage your finances and aim to progress in your career or your profits and so on. But you don’t do that for your personal gratification. Primarily you do it out of necessity. Similarly, you need to take care of the body’s desires – for food, shelter, rest, sexual expression, physical exercise, and so on. But here as with everything else, your HS will guide you more and more in making the right moves instead of the wrong ones.

[TraineeHuman]

Your ability to feel or intuitively sense the true answer to a question regarding your life does require briefly going into stillness or silence as in post #24. It can also be strengthened by developing or concentrating on your heart center. This is why if you love some field or topic or activity, you’re much more likely to master it. Your intuition will lead the way. Similarly, if you want to have deep insight into people generally, the most useful quality is to have genuine love and caring and empathy – as distinct, to some extent, I would say, from some sentimentalized version of the same.

Also, the more you get rid of your baggage, the easier it becomes to make the stillness last, and hence you eventually learn how to on a good day listen accurately for much longer than two seconds without having your clever ego mind come in and distort the message.

On the other hand, although the (initial parts of the) answers come from your HS, when your HS starts to come into and join with your “inner body”, it also speaks to you through insights and even inspiration (which come from higher dimensions than the answers to your questions). Some people bring the HS partly into them and develop the ability to gain such insights, even though they have not strongly developed their psychic or intuitive sense as in post #24. For example, Awake may well be an example of such a person, or perhaps he used to be until recently.

In the end, everyone needs to both be still and silent enough to hear the messages and also “big picture”-loving enough to bring the HS into them.

[Eram]

Although the HS tends to be quite forthcoming about what choices may be wiser for an individual, it doesn’t see the individual in nearly as negative a light as the individual usually sees themselves.

...]


Nor does it see other individuals as negative as our individual self portrays them for that matter. :)

It seems that I have been able to establish an ongoing connection with my higher self a week ago.
I watched 2 movies in 1 day that had lots of Christianity propaganda in them.
In the 2th film there was this man that talked to God and I figured... I wonder if I can do this too, so I asked 'inwardly', are you there?
Immediately I felt as if a presence filled me up and if I was being touched on the whole back of my body.. and the heart as well.
The normal feeling of being alone was gone so to speak.

Since then I make contact whenever I feel like it and sometimes it comes through very clear, other times not so clear.
I guess it is a craft that has to be polished, as well as how to communicate with it.

To come back to the other individuals that are not as hardly judged by the HS as we ourselves tend to do.

The first night that I discovered this, I was helping my girlfriend with a job she had to do for school and all she did was putting my efforts down and snapping at me.
I became victim of thoughts of self pity, but my HS immediately projected her point of view and after that a higher point of view in which both our points of view became totally childish and irrelevant.
It just made me smile :)

This is how communication with the HS works doesn't it?

It makes us see or feel a higher point of view or it helps with that, with a great sense of humor and lightness of heart. (sirdipswitch style)

Also... it pushes me to give the better version of me in situations where I fail to do so.
Not take it so easy all the times ( I'm a lazy bugger by nature ;) )

I'm quite sure if I am indeed connect with the HS... other people can do this easily too.
It is a bit like people do when they lay their lives in the hands of the lord, I'm quite sure that they have a connection with HS too.
It's sort of ...surrendering to it.
You just turn inward and ask... are you there? or whatever feels appropriate for you. And then you pay attention to what you feel.

It's like you enter a dialogue, not outward, but inward,not in words, but in images, feelings and ideas.

This connection with HS is filtered through the believe and emotional system of the individual and I believe that is why so many people are able to have a connection with HS and believe that craziest stuff at the same time, or tell the craziest stuff in God's name.


edit to add:


The HS can’t enter fully into your life unless you basically let go of your wants, your desires, your expectations. Perhaps not fully. But you need to find some way to basically surrender to the Divine, to Source. Then you just trust in it. Ahh, what a relief! Peace at last. It’s not such a big deal. In a way, all that changes then is that you have stepped out of the narrowness of being obsessively self-centered and you discover that all along you were closely united with the rest of the Universe anyway. That narrowness was a fiction all along, and was the cause of most of your suffering.

Everything you do starts to become a gift to Source instead of a gift to ego, which was always a false and distorted version of “you” anyway. Somewhere in the Bible it says: “Cast your bread upon the waters …”, and I think the idea is that the waters will bring your bread or something even tastier back to you. And the universe has always worked that way, but now you’re starting to walk in step with the Universal consciousness. Just keep giving wherever it’s practical to do so at any level, and pretty soon you’ll find you’re getting included much more deeply and satisfyingly in the workings of everything and in the lives of those around you at a level that counts. The more you keep giving, the more you find you’re receiving, but it soon reaches the point where it would be ridiculous for you to keep score.

I’m not saying stop making plans. At a practical level you still have to make money and manage your finances and aim to progress in your career or your profits and so on. But you don’t do that for your personal gratification. Primarily you do it out of necessity. Similarly, you need to take care of the body’s desires – for food, shelter, rest, sexual expression, physical exercise, and so on. But here as with everything else, your HS will guide you more and more in making the right moves instead of the wrong ones.

Ahh... you said it much better here TH.

This is exactly how it feels to me.

Everything you do starts to become a gift to Source instead of a gift to ego

[soleil]

hi guys, small update here...not obe, but almost i suppose. the other day i was swinging my astral arms in the air (where my mattress is) while laying on my tummy to fall asleep (i wasnt trying to OBE, just practicing). it must have worked, because i snapped back into my body, and my body jumped physically in surprise. this was the closest ive gotten lately while playing around.

i find this very easy to do actually. is there a chance to immediately separate at this moment? or should i need to wait for vibrations?

[TraineeHuman]

Although the HS tends to be quite forthcoming about what choices may be wiser for an individual, it doesn’t see the individual in nearly as negative a light as the individual usually sees themselves.
...]


Nor does it see other individuals as negative as our individual self portrays them for that matter. :)

It seems that I have been able to establish an ongoing connection with my higher self a week ago.
I watched 2 movies in 1 day that had lots of Christianity propaganda in them.
In the 2th film there was this man that talked to God and I figured... I wonder if I can do this too, so I asked 'inwardly', are you there?
Immediately I felt as if a presence filled me up and if I was being touched on the whole back of my body.. and the heart as well.
The normal feeling of being alone was gone so to speak.

Since then I make contact whenever I feel like it and sometimes it comes through very clear, other times not so clear.
I guess it is a craft that has to be polished, as well as how to communicate with it.

To come back to the other individuals that are not as hardly judged by the HS as we ourselves tend to do.

The first night that I discovered this, I was helping my girlfriend with a job she had to do for school and all she did was putting my efforts down and snapping at me.
I became victim of thoughts of self pity, but my HS immediately projected her point of view and after that a higher point of view in which both our points of view became totally childish and irrelevant.
It just made me smile :)

This is how communication with the HS works doesn't it?

It makes us see or feel a higher point of view or it helps with that, with a great sense of humor and lightness of heart...

I'm quite sure if I am indeed connect with the HS... other people can do this easily too.
It is a bit like people do when they lay their lives in the hands of the lord, I'm quite sure that they have a connection with HS too.
It's sort of ...surrendering to it.
Absolutely. But not everybody is ready to totally surrender like you are.


You just turn inward and ask... are you there? or whatever feels appropriate for you. And then you pay attention to what you feel.

It's like you enter a dialogue, not outward, but inward,not in words, but in images, feelings and ideas.

This connection with HS is filtered through the believe and emotional system of the individual and I believe that is why so many people are able to have a connection with HS and believe that craziest stuff at the same time, or tell the craziest stuff in God's name.

Wow. Sounds like your whole post was a “message” from your HS, Eram.

Yes, I agree your HS doesn’t judge others just as it doesn’t judge you. Isn’t that ever so helpful, so sane?

Of course, we still need to have some discrimination regarding people. Let’s say person X can’t help being a con man – they’re so used to lying, they’ve forgotten how to stop lying. So, you don’t judge them for that, but you don’t shut your eyes either. You just identify where they’re at, and accept them for what they are. If they find it very hard not to tell lies, you’ll know you probably can’t trust them with your money. But no drama. If they rip you off, that’s your fault rather than theirs, because that means you didn’t accept them as they are and where they are at.

For a person to learn from their HS how not to judge themselves is the most wonderful thing. This is partly because after our life review following death, most of us place all kinds of judgments on ourselves. Then on the next rebirth in the physical, the burden of all those judgments gets passed on to the poor little new baby at the time of birth. Ouch! Be kind to yourself-in-your-next-lifetime in advance!

Also, have you noticed that most of the time people look at how you seem to treat yourself and they try to treat you about the same way? After all, they probably think, you know you better than they do.

[TraineeHuman]

hi guys, small update here...not obe, but almost i suppose. the other day i was swinging my astral arms in the air (where my mattress is) while laying on my tummy to fall asleep (i wasnt trying to OBE, just practicing). it must have worked, because i snapped back into my body, and my body jumped physically in surprise. this was the closest ive gotten lately while playing around.

i find this very easy to do actually. is there a chance to immediately separate at this moment? or should i need to wait for vibrations?

If you're swinging your astral arms in the air, haven't you already separated at that moment?

Waiting for vibrations at that point reminds me of that movie Wag The Dog.

I assume you snapped back into your body because wherever your attention goes you go, and your attention focused back on the physical.

[TraineeHuman]

Joseph Campbell and others claimed that possibly the way to personal liberation is to follow your bliss, follow your fondest dream. I have learnt, both in my own life and in those of some others, that this doesn’t always work.

It doesn’t work because a person’s conditioning leads them to find pleasure in some of the kinds of fields which their parents wanted them to go into. The selection of such a field is therefore based on the person’s conditioning. Not -- let me stress -- on where the HS knows would be truly good for the person.

The HS still supports you no matter how many holes you fall into or are in. It’s kind of like the average person has a huge hole in the floor just inside their front door and they fall into it every time they arrive at or leave home. But the person has normalized this so much that they just climb out of the hole and dust themselves off and pretend that nothing unusual has happened. Then when they go to work it may be full of holes too. If the person comes to enjoy falling into holes, the HS just goes along with that. The HS does what it can to help you find some joy in however misguided a mess you get your life into.

I guess by following what you believe is your bliss for something you’ll eventually run out that line of your conditioning. Then you’ll be closer to freedom to follow your true area of bliss. Hopefully you’ll learn the difference between what one or both of your parents believed or hoped you would love to do versus what deep inside the true you loves. I know I’m harping a lot on how an internalized “voice” of a parent or whoever completely misleads many people. But if the person hasn’t learnt how to truly listen to their HS, I’m afraid they’re at the mercy of not knowing who the heck they really are, all their life long.

[kintun]

The HS can’t enter fully into your life unless you basically let go of your wants, your desires, your expectations. Perhaps not fully. But you need to find some way to basically surrender to the Divine, to Source. Then you just trust in it. Ahh, what a relief! Peace at last. It’s not such a big deal. In a way, all that changes then is that you have stepped out of the narrowness of being obsessively self-centered and you discover that all along you were closely united with the rest of the Universe anyway. That narrowness was a fiction all along, and was the cause of most of your suffering.

Everything you do starts to become a gift to Source instead of a gift to ego, which was always a false and distorted version of “you” anyway. Somewhere in the Bible it says: “Cast your bread upon the waters …”, and I think the idea is that the waters will bring your bread or something even tastier back to you. And the universe has always worked that way, but now you’re starting to walk in step with the Universal consciousness. Just keep giving wherever it’s practical to do so at any level, and pretty soon you’ll find you’re getting included much more deeply and satisfyingly in the workings of everything and in the lives of those around you at a level that counts. The more you keep giving, the more you find you’re receiving, but it soon reaches the point where it would be ridiculous for you to keep score.

I’m not saying stop making plans. At a practical level you still have to make money and manage your finances and aim to progress in your career or your profits and so on. But you don’t do that for your personal gratification. Primarily you do it out of necessity. Similarly, you need to take care of the body’s desires – for food, shelter, rest, sexual expression, physical exercise, and so on. But here as with everything else, your HS will guide you more and more in making the right moves instead of the wrong ones.

This is so true! At least for me... You have described so well the feeling of freedom and confidence, TraineeHuman. Thank you for putting so well in words all this.

[kintun]

hi guys, small update here...not obe, but almost i suppose. the other day i was swinging my astral arms in the air (where my mattress is) while laying on my tummy to fall asleep (i wasnt trying to OBE, just practicing). it must have worked, because i snapped back into my body, and my body jumped physically in surprise. this was the closest ive gotten lately while playing around.

i find this very easy to do actually. is there a chance to immediately separate at this moment? or should i need to wait for vibrations?

Hi!
I would say you are already separate. Just think of going somewhere or doing something and give it a try.
I discovered that after I saw myself sleeping in bed once, it was enough for my mind to understand it. And I have never experienced that again, although I keep on astral traveling. I guess it's not necessary to be so concious about the moment you are going out of the body.

[soleil]

hi guys, small update here...not obe, but almost i suppose. the other day i was swinging my astral arms in the air (where my mattress is) while laying on my tummy to fall asleep (i wasnt trying to OBE, just practicing). it must have worked, because i snapped back into my body, and my body jumped physically in surprise. this was the closest ive gotten lately while playing around.

i find this very easy to do actually. is there a chance to immediately separate at this moment? or should i need to wait for vibrations?

Hi!
I would say you are already separate. Just think of going somewhere or doing something and give it a try.
I discovered that after I saw myself sleeping in bed once, it was enough for my mind to understand it. And I have never experienced that again, although I keep on astral traveling. I guess it's not necessary to be so concious about the moment you are going out of the body.

i suppose i thought it couldnt possibly happen that fast. because it was quite easy for me to do and feel (not imagine). i had literally just hopped into bed and laid on my tummy and started going for it (swinging my astral arms left to right into my mattress).

on another note, last night i 'woke' up. not sure if i woke up lucid or woke up in bed. but i was in bed, and decided to just roll out of bed. i am quite fussy and grumpy at night so i for sure felt like it was the hardest for me to figure out how to do, it must be the easiest since those kinds of things are hard to explain. i rolled out of bed and heard my feet hit the floor where theres about 1.5 ft of space between my bed and the wall/window. anyways, i thought to myself "theres no way!" so i decided to turn around to see the bed, to see if i really got out of bed physically since i heard my feet hit the ground, or to see if i was astral.

and i saw in the dark this lump in the bed, piles of blanket near the face and hair everywhere. thats gotta be me. so i didnt even think twice and turned back to the wall and walked/ran through it. i immediately was walking on snow, because i saw white everywhere on the ground, and heard my feet crunch the snow. i thought to myself, "OMG i feel like im wide awake!" just then i turned around and there was a white wolf/dog beside me, coming up to my right. i wasnt afraid of the silvery looking huge dog because i patted him on the head and was like 'stay here' kinda vibe to him. it all happened fast i suppose because there wasnt much interaction and i dont really know for sure who it was. maybe it was mav, my dog.

so i turned around and started walking/floating actually. i decided to float/fly up towards the tops of the trees. i made my way up really fast because i saw stars in the bright sky, (in actuality it must have been pitch black since it must have been ~3-4am this happened). this happened to fast to me, so i tried to get my foot to grab a branch on the top of a tree. which i gave up doing because i realized, i dont need to mess around i could just go somewhere else. so i (half a**ed) said/thought of going to my higherself. i really did go somewhere else, but i have no idea where i went, because there was a being that freaked me out. i must have fallen back asleep, because it was over at this point. i was SO happy that i remembered when i woke up though! i still feel like it must have been a dream; but i guess i was bound to have a conscious/awake obe one of these days. regardless of trying consciously or not.

(in real life i have a huge white dog named mav, who is also a great pyrenees, and when we go for walks he heels on the/my right.

and there was about 1-2 inch of fresh wet snow this morning from snow flurries overnight; the kind that would crunch. i walked out back to see my view from where i ran out to the backyard and remembered it even more.)

[soleil]

hi guys, small update here...not obe, but almost i suppose. the other day i was swinging my astral arms in the air (where my mattress is) while laying on my tummy to fall asleep (i wasnt trying to OBE, just practicing). it must have worked, because i snapped back into my body, and my body jumped physically in surprise. this was the closest ive gotten lately while playing around.

i find this very easy to do actually. is there a chance to immediately separate at this moment? or should i need to wait for vibrations?

Hi!
I would say you are already separate. Just think of going somewhere or doing something and give it a try.
I discovered that after I saw myself sleeping in bed once, it was enough for my mind to understand it. And I have never experienced that again, although I keep on astral traveling. I guess it's not necessary to be so concious about the moment you are going out of the body.

i've also practiced this while awake, as mentioned before. to get used to using and feeling my energy body. so i suppose when i did it while laying down i dont know what is and what isnt possible.

[TraineeHuman]

...
i suppose i thought it couldnt possibly happen that fast. because it was quite easy for me to do and feel (not imagine). i had literally just hopped into bed and laid on my tummy and started going for it (swinging my astral arms left to right into my mattress).
Please don't worry about whether you're having the "right" experience. Just have the experience. If it somehow turns out to be the "left" experience instead of the "right" experience, then just trust yourself. Trust that whatever you do will be "right". And if it does happen to be different, then trust that in that case you've invented/discovered a new variation. OB travel is the most natural thing in the world. Thirty thousand years ago everybody was knowingly doing it all the time, almost kind of like breathing. The only reason most people aren't aware of doing it today is because of many centuries of being dumbed down.


and i saw in the dark this lump in the bed, piles of blanket near the face and hair everywhere. thats gotta be me. so i didnt even think twice and turned back to the wall and walked/ran through it.

Cool. Sure sounds like the "right" experience. Congratulations! Also, I've found most people don't have the courage to walk straight through a wall the first time they get the feeling it's possible to do that.


i turned around and there was a white wolf/dog beside me, coming up to my right. i wasnt afraid of the silvery looking huge dog because i patted him on the head and was like 'stay here' kinda vibe to him. it all happened fast i suppose because there wasnt much interaction and i dont really know for sure who it was. maybe it was mav, my dog.

I'll bet it very probably was Mav,or else a former pet dog of yours who died. I love the way pet animals have such pure and simple hearts. I've also noticed that they try to communicate to us through 5D pictures all the time, only most of us don't know this. Personally I sometimes manage to "talk" to them telepathically or in pictures, and they prefer that. I find they then start using the 3D noises and body postures which they also use to communicate with each other. For instance, a cat will lift one of its front paws high up and stand on three legs in response to my offering food. That's an expression of great trust and acceptance. Also, I'll bet Mav would have found it hard to resist going on that "walk", because dogs love to go on walks. They also love to share, and I'll bet Mav (or whatever dog it was) was trying to share some courage, to strengthen your own courage, because dogs know they are astral travelling all the time, when they sleep. By the way, how do you imagine a lost pet finds its way home, even if it's on the other side of a continent?


so i turned around and started walking/floating actually. i decided to float/fly up towards the tops of the trees. i made my way up really fast because i saw stars in the bright sky, (in actuality it must have been pitch black since it must have been ~3-4am this happened). this happened to fast to me, so i tried to get my foot to grab a branch on the top of a tree. which i gave up doing because i realized, i dont need to mess around i could just go somewhere else. so i (half a**ed) said/thought of going to my higher self. i really did go somewhere else, but i have no idea where i went, because there was a being that freaked me out. i must have fallen back asleep, because it was over at this point.

In my experience it's not unusual for a person to "bounce away" out of fear the first time they try to go way beyond the worlds of form and to face their own greatness. The being that freaked you out would almost certainly have been (a deeper part of) you. Nothing to fear really, because it's always there, always doing whatever it does.

[soleil]

hi TH, can you confirm for me, that if i am able to swing my arms (per se) i should be able to separate at that moment, regardless of how long? i didnt even have vibrations, so im just kind of bewildered that separation can happen just like that. i'm going to have to experiment some more. :)

[TraineeHuman]

hi TH, can you confirm for me, that if i am able to swing my arms (per se) i should be able to separate at that moment, regardless of how long? i didnt even have vibrations, so im just kind of bewildered that separation can happen just like that. i'm going to have to experiment some more. :)
All the dimensions are all here at once, so in a sense there's no separation between any of them except that we get ourselves used to believing they're separate and focusing mostly just on the physical. So yes, all it takes is a shift of attention, and you've stepped through a threshhold into somewhere else. The stronger your attention gets, the more amazing or "miraculous" things you can do, sometimes at least. Why wouldn't it get boring to live as narrow a life as most people do these days? Why not become weirdly -- but naturally -- a lot stronger inside? It's always been there inside you, kind of a sleeping giant just waiting for the "kiss" of "Prince Charming" who just stands for your aware consciousness. Obviously you've been developing your awareness, teradactyl, so that's inevitably changing who "you" are but sometimes we hang on to identities that aren't up to speed with who we've now changed into.

As I've mentioned earlier, I rarely even notice the vibrations, and then only for the briefest moment if I do, when I'm passing through 4D on my way to formless worlds. That's how fast I go through them, and most of the time I don't even notice them at all, if they are even there. Or, I sometimes notice the vibrations while I'm awake but I don't ever use them to go OB, but to recharge my body through them for ten minutes, and then I usually don't need any sleep that night.

[nevermnd]

..........

[Chester]

Hi - ever since I came back to Texas, my abilities have gone way, way down. Also, the AI computer hacking into my mind has kicked up into high gear and in just over a month from leaving Costa Rica I am a shadow of myself. My conscious connection to my astral experiences are almost gone. I feel like I am a "living dead."

But I am still very happy. My attitude is great anyways... I came back to help my 19 year old son who might go to prison. I am hoping the judge will give him a shot with me taking him under my wing.

Now for something cool. My oldest son, Stephen, had a full blown, waking state OBE. He worked on it and worked on it and then finally had one BUT! It scared him so much he decided he didn't want to do it again! Hahaha I am so happy for him though. He is fearless like me about so, so much that I am surprised he got so scared.

Anyways, he described his experience so innocently and almost like he was embarrassed. What he described is so much like so many of the folks you have been working with TraineeHuman. I hope we are all able to get out from underneath this strange AI computer that seems to have this sector of the galaxy locked down so tightly. Yucko!

Hi nevermind! thanks for joining!... this is a great thread indeed. When I get down, I always read this thread... always lifts me up.

[TraineeHuman]

Hi JustOneWookies,

I’m very sorry to hear that you’ve been targeted so badly.

I guess the way I see it is that if you’re aware you’re being attacked, you’re already halfway there to getting the right kind of awareness to make yourself immune. Because awareness wins out over everything, in the end. Awareness can even always find a way to heal and negate the physical effects of any kind of AI, as far as I know. Easy enough to say, I know. But AI only has a tiny amount of awareness compared to a human being. And black magicians know that if you’re more aware than them, they can’t win against you, not in the long run. Also, if you spend time putting energy into getting very aware about yourself, I believe that will also make it impossible for them to keep attacking unless they spend a huge amount of time and energy to match how much you put in.

I was aware of being psychically attacked myself in late January and again before the last weekend in February. I didn’t try to check on who was doing it. I prefer to just find a way to heal the negative energies off of me, day by day and hour by hour. I did get ill for almost a week in late February. It was very painful at first, and also very unusual because I get ill about once every ten years. But after some time of feeling it did the opposite to me, I now feel it definitely made me stronger, in the end.

If your son felt fear when he went OB and he had psychically protected himself properly beforehand, that means the fear was a part of his own shadow side – his own unconscious negativity. Maybe he could try doing Inelia Benz’s “fear processing” exercise on it – see www.ascension101.com

[TraineeHuman]

Hi Nevermnd, and a warm welcome to the Forum from everybody who has posted in this thread, I'm sure. Thank you for your very kind comments. This thread would not have lasted nearly as long as it has were it nor for the quality of many of the people making posts here. I guess it’s hard to talk about OBEs without having one (or almost one), and without seriously working on developing yourself.

I feel: “Thank goodness I’ve found a group who are seriously committed to evolving no matter what, and not just talking about it.” It’s been great for me to see various individuals obviously making what I know to be one little or large breakthrough after another – and being so willing to share, so we can all learn.

Also, so much of this subject is really about transcendence, and gradually bringing the transcendent into our lives in the physical. That’s a subject where I feel inspired just discussing it, and others do too.

You can find interesting material on the Forum any time if you know where to search. One favorite location of mine, for example, is Helvetic’s thread – go to News and Updates, then the sub-section called Helvetic. Another is the Books, Videos, Articles etc sub-section of General Discussion.

[kintun]

Congratulations, Teradactyl! You did it!:cool:

[soleil]

Congratulations, Teradactyl! You did it!:cool:
im think ive lost my nerve, because i didnt attempt anything the past couple of nights. i'll have this weekend to play around, and next weekend is a long weekend, so i'm going to give it a go. ive been wanting to 1.) go to HS, 2.) see past lives 3.) wake up my fiance to see if i can get his astral up with me. (not all in the same trip of course, maybe 1&2 together but not 3, that i'll do after/if/when 1& 2 is completed).


i've been reading more of the OBE4U pdf (practical guidebook by michael raduga) that was posted earlier (via RAF). i recommend this very much, even for those who do direct methods or want to master etc; because of course direct/indirect methods are discussed, but i'm getting into the goodstuff now where it delves into tips like deepening to help you STAY in 'phase' for longer. :)

[soleil]

this is for others who dont catch up in the 'secrets of the soul' thread.


its easier to do in actuality - than getting over how hard you think it is in your head.

its all in your head. let your expectations GO! LEAVE. have NO EXPECTATIONS. then all of what happens is your awareness to make it happen!

i also want to recommend (and have added below) the michael raduga's pdf - which has been mentioned here before.

This is my recommendation for whoever here wants a bit more DETAIL on specifics: methods to induce OBE, methods to separate, methods to retain awareness in phase etc!; than buhlman provides.

buhlman paved the ways yes(and are more up to date than monroe) but raduga makes it ridiculously easy NOW for real newbs who want to know more. again i recommend to leave expectations at door no matter what you read.

then he goes into detail to master all aspects. (and i'm still finishing it myself just started reading about deepending last night) but i definitely recommend it because its free and its ridiculously detailed.

essentially raduga goes into it in a indirect method vs. buhlman direct method, for beginners. Because he finds that people get best results indirect, and then can go on to master direct techniques. There is a part where he compares direct to indirect:

It is also worth always keeping in mind the average
amount of time phasers spend on direct and indirect
techniques to achieve results. For example, a novice expends
an average of 5 minutes(5 attempts) on indirect techniques
for each phase experience (averaging both successful and
unsuccessful attempts), but 300 minutes(20 attempts) on
direct techniques for each phase experience. An advanced
phaser averages less than a minute(1-2 attempts) performing
indirect techniques for each phase experience, but 30 minutes
on direct techniques(2-3 attempts). pg 247


raduga says during 3 day workshop has outstanding results. after the 3 days and you get an OBE, get into learning other methods if this is the way you want to give it a go. here he says the results are:

Quick Instructions for Novices
Success Rate:
For 1-5 attempts (1-3 days) - 50%
For 6-10 attempts (2-7 days) - 80%
For 11-20 attempts (3-14 days) - 90%

this is my recommendation to help make this easier for newbs, even if it is more reading and gets people to actually get out. :)

http://obe4u.com/files/the_phase.pdf

i cant wait to hear new stories of success
:):hungry::popcorn::bump:

[TraineeHuman]

its easier to do in actuality - than getting over how hard you think it is in your head.

its all in your head. let your expectations GO! LEAVE. have NO EXPECTATIONS. then all of what happens is your awareness to make it happen!

i also want to recommend (and have added below) the michael raduga's pdf - which has been mentioned here before.

This is my recommendation for whoever here wants a bit more DETAIL on specifics: methods to induce OBE, methods to separate, methods to retain awareness in phase etc!; than buhlman provides.

buhlman paved the ways yes(and are more up to date than monroe) but raduga makes it ridiculously easy NOW for real newbs who want to know more. again i recommend to leave expectations at door no matter what you read.

then he goes into detail to master all aspects. (and i'm still finishing it myself just started reading about deepending last night) but i definitely recommend it because its free and its ridiculously detailed. ...
http://obe4u.com/files/the_phase.pdf


teradactyl, I said I agree that if you think about what’s involved in OB travel rather than doing it (or keeping on trying to actually do it), then you’re making things unnecessarily hard for yourself. I’ve said basically that in many posts, and you may perhaps recall that in post #54 in early December I’ve even suggested you specifically were overthinking it all.

I’ve also mentioned in posts #4, #23, and a number of other posts that the traditional method of astral travel – such as Buhlmann or Monroe advocates – is tougher than it needs to be. In post #10 I describe in great detail a very simple method by which even a beginner can briefly astral travel to a past lifetime. And I know it works first try for at least 80% of people who try it. Did you do that exercise right then, last year? If not, then duh – why not??? Oh, perhaps you must have assumed my reason for describing that exercise fully was so you could think about it? Well, of course there was no way that was why I described it in post #10.

In post #23 I actually pointed out that we’re all already OB at the time when we wake up, and that it would be helpful if people just became aware of that, and then found a way to use that to learn OB travel. When, thank goodness, you later on so usefully brought up Radiga’s work (one and a half months ago?) -- which is based on the fact that we are OB when we wake up --, I made it clear (posts #296, #298) I considered that to be a much easier method than Buhlmann or Monroe etc. (Because the fact is it certainly is, just as the exercise in post #10 is also a much easier and more accessible method.) I also said that from that point on (post #298) I would assume that everyone was applying Radiga’s method. All my subsequent comments have been made under that assumption, actually.

[TraineeHuman]

Once a person learns to communicate with their HS regularly, they soon develop a type of shorthand. One of the forms of shorthand my HS like to use is to take me OB to some scene, e.g. somewhere on the planet.

The night before last, as I was about to go to bed (before bringing divine healing light for my psychic protection) I asked my HS whether I should be concerned about the material in Bill Ryan’s recent thread based on Doug Hagmann. I basically wanted to know if I should be concerned or not. The answer my HS gave was to show me a very steep mountaintop scene by taking me there OB. It must have been somewhere in the southern hemisphere because there was no snow. Probably either in the Andes or the Mountains of the Moon in Africa. Anyway, at first my HS showed me how steep the gradients there were, which I knew meant that yes, the situation really was volatile if not potentially truly dangerous. But then it also showed me how beautiful the scenery on those mountaintops was. I thought” “If you’re showing me how beautiful it is, that means it won’t be all bad, and really it will be fine even though some things will get rugged, won’t they?”

In response it whisked me straight away to a point above the Grand Canyon, where the sun was just starting to rise. The main thing I could see there was that it looked beautiful, and it was a new dawn, and secondarily it did happen to look rugged and primitive, but only secondarily.

This was the first time my HS has told me to take any “fear” or “warning” type of message about the economy or whatever seriously. But my HS was emphasizing that it won’t turn out as badly as some fear it may.

My HS’s shorthand also includes various symbols and all sorts of things. The HS won’t answer questions too specifically, but it will give an answer of some sort. Some of the symbols or whatever will also be indications that you, the recipient of the message, don’t want to face the truth on this occasion. I used to have a clairvoyant teacher who always got big inkspots when either she or a client she was asking about didn’t want to face the HS’s answer. But it varies with each individual what the shorthand “code” turns out to be.

[Eram]

In response it whisked me straight away to a point above the Grand Canyon, where the sun was just starting to rise. The main thing I could see there was that it looked beautiful, and it was a new dawn, and secondarily it did happen to look rugged and primitive, but only secondarily.

:thumb:

This is what my girlfriend is getting through too.
I don't know what or who she communicates with, but she is often right with in what she sees.

She says that indeed things might get ugly in terms of economic matters, but that people will start to do what they really want and that the whole event has an awakening component to it.

Maybe on the long term people will look back on it as a turning point in history after which civilization heads of toward a more harmonious direction?

[Libico]

I've been away from here for the past few weeks as I have hit a sort of rough patch in regards to going OB - this hasn't been discouraging for me but I've had a lot going on in my life lately that making time for this has been difficult. I have had a couple of times where I felt the vibrations start as I was drifting off but I was never able to get them to increase enough to attempt going OBE - it just seemed that something was off.

Some good news to report - I have started meditating regularly (5-6 times a week) and it's been quite interesting! This has always been difficult for me as I have never been able to turn my mind chatter off but I think I may have succeeded for the first time last night which was an incredible experience. Before every meditation I ground myself using the method found in post #24 and ask for protection. I have never really felt anything quite like I experienced last night and it just took off from there.

I sat down in the half lotus position at around 00:00 and began my request to my HS/GA for protection. I felt something like a very fine piece of string running over my body from head to toe and when I was completely covered I started doing what I can only call conversing with myself. I asked about things in my life and if I'm doing things right, asked for advice etc. Usually when I meditate I am very aware of my body and with my eyes closed all I can see is blackness. Here I felt completely detached from my body - I was aware of my fingers, and my legs but it was almost like they weren't a concern to me. I felt them but it was almost like it wasn't my body. Instead of seeing the usual blackness I began to see imagery playing out a little story - these were pretty bizarre much like normal dreams but every time I would ask a question or want to know some piece of information the story would accommodate me with an answer that I would need to interpret.

Throughout this entire time I felt like I was an observer to my thoughts - I felt a type of clarity I have never experienced. there was no background noise/thoughts, no deviations from the state I was in - a few times I did have a rogue thought but quickly snuffed it out. Usually I try to stop by saying something like "OK now I will stop thinking of X" which of course leads to just the opposite - this time I worked, several times!

The experience was very pleasant and I requested a few things, bit at one point along with all the imagery I saw a face of a woman with strange eyes and a scar visualize. I thought that was off as this has been great so far and sent the image away, but it came back each time. After the 5th or 6th time it went away and I saw what appeared to be what I interpreted to be a parasitic/vampire face (half of the face to be exact) and I got shivers all over my body. I thought that strange since I had protected myself and immediately told it that I am aware of my power and it is not welcome in my presence if it's intent is malevolent. I sensed it's surprise but then softened my thoughts to send it positive thoughts and suggested that it change it's ways and so it can move forward into a more pleasant existence. After demanding that it leave I felt the presence dwindle away until almost nothing but I seemed to latch on to it and held it in my presence while I sent it positive energy before letting it go. I'm actually not sure if it just stayed or I kept it there, just my impressions.

After this I figured that it must have been a test/learning experience of some kind as if I were in real danger my GA would have stepped in. It could also have been that the entire experience was "in my head" and I was testing myself to see how I would react (the emotions were real because I believed it to be real). Soon after I requested to go out of body from this meditative state and received symbols/imagery of it being not advised at this point in time. At this point I knew I should stop for the night and head to bed but didn't really want to as I felt so peaceful and tranquil. After another few minutes I did and checked the clock to see the time; it was close to 01:00 so I had been meditating for around 40 minutes which the longest I have ever gone - I can now understand how people can meditate for hours.

This reads almost like some of my other OBE - is it common for the malevolent entity scenario or similar scenarios to occur when meditating?

Just thought I'd share - if anyone is having a difficult time getting started with meditation, this is after 4 weeks of doing it consistently so get started! :)

[TraineeHuman]

That certainly sounds like a fruitful and prolonged “conversation” with your HS, Libico. Congratulations! Stellar. And yes, the blackness isn’t your HS speaking, but the pictures that replace the blackness are.

Meditation, as I understand it, is the practice of stillness, or of being able to hold or listen to stillness. As I’ve of course attempted to explain in a number of posts, the use of stillness and having some mastery of it is extremely helpful when one is beginning to communicate with one’s HS and even after one has become “fluent” at it. So you seem to have put the dots together very well indeed, Libico, as I’d hoped a number of readers would.

I’ve never experienced a “vampiric” or otherwise malevolent energy in my space ever during meditation, at any time in my life. I have caught glimpses of various kinds of alien faces present at meditation retreats involving large groups of people. Some of those faces looked very ugly and strange indeed, but they were benevolent. They were working very hard to help everyone in the group. For instance, at one meditation retreat the “guru” was sitting on a podium at the front of the group. There were five powerful “helpers”, of which only two looked human. Those two stood at the front two corners of the podium. I noticed that the closest one looked like the famous Zen master Joshu (from something like the eighth century), founder of the Japanese Zen monastic system. I chatted with him briefly, and he confirmed that he was indeed Joshu. He was about eleven feet tall, and had a stick that was the same height. But somehow that seemed totally normal to me at the time. The reason I saw these beings was that when I go deeply enough into meditation my eyes at least half open. These beings were there in 4D, basically made out of light but looking a light-grey color all over.

I’ve also always had a close affinity with nature spirits, and some of their faces look very, very ugly, but they’re totally benevolent, at least to me, and to the health of the environment. Also, sometimes if I’m doing some nonverbal work with someone they’ll see truly ugly-looking faces on me, but they’re just getting mostly “snapshots” of how I looked in previous lifetimes in non-human planets, and again it’s mostly just me and it’s not malevolent at all.

I don’t know if you’ve watched Bill Ryan’s video interview with Inelia Benz. But you might like to consider her approach of having absolutely no judgment and no fear and absolutely total acceptance in relation to any supposedly malevolent being you happen to see (but protecting yourself in advance, and giving both yourself and the being healing light throughout). You may also like to look at Inelia’s “fear processing” exercise.

The only time I’ve experienced hostile faces in something even approaching some similarity to meditation was in a lucid dream I had the night after I was initiated into the Tibetan Order of the Snow Leopard. I was aware of benevolent Reptoids (I’ve never met any of the malevolent variety), and they were showing me a kind of 3D movie (like you see with the special glasses) of all sorts of dinosaurs with very sharp teeth, mostly also having wings, and all flying at me as if to attack me. It didn’t scare me one iota, and I got the impression that after about thirty minutes they decided to stop showing that “movie” when they had intended to run it for an hour or so. This was definitely an initiation, and I guess I’ve also experienced initiations in 5D where I had to show no fear of some frightening “gatekeeper” in order to pass the initiation. These initiations weren’t sick or twisted or vampiric or whatever, though, but were very light-centered and decent and gave me access to more advanced spiritual information.

You might also like to consider if the scar half-face has something to do with your own shadow side. Far from rejecting your shadow side, you need to face it and embrace it. In the musical Phantom of the Opera, which is ultimately just the Beauty and the Beast story, it's only when Christine agrees to marry the Phantom and gives him a passionate kiss that he vanishes into thin air (or, in the other version of Beauty and the Beast, turns into a handsome prince, i.e. is no longer dark at all).

[Libico]

I have had trouble grasping the fact that I encountered something malevolent in my experience yesterday as I it just didn't add up with anything I had ever read or heard about mediation. I do recall hearing about certain spirits who would bother people during meditation to try and distract them, but never something like this. I think on some level I was afraid of whatever I saw even though I knew I was in no danger - although I did remain calm and composed the chills tell there is some fear work I need to work on. For me it was such a surprise to see the face that it was an instinctual reaction.

I am very curious to see how it goes tonight and future nights - now that I've found a state of relaxation next time I'm able to go back I'll be sure to ask my HS what the meaning behind the face was. I hadn't considered that it could be part of me shadow/darker side so that is some interesting food for thought. I'll report back what I find :)

[nevermnd]

Greetings Trainee!

The reason I ask is because I'm making an effort to raise my energy levels using some of the things I've learned. Like ditching meat, caffeine, and alcohol. I'm doing some more meditating again in my copper pyramid to get the energy flowing; get the chakras spinning. Practicing some grounding techniques and such. I created my pyramid a couple months ago and ever since I tried it out the first week, my forehead has been buzzing, as if to say, "Hey, you started this, don't stop now."
Joe

I do have a question regarding the use of pyramids in order to raise one's energy and vibration level. ( on Bovis scale)
Is the use of the pyramids lead to another false worship of past demigods civilization, archons or overall a bad idea?
Do any of you veteran's that read this thread have a strong opinion about the use of small man made pyramid (4-8 feet tall).
There is a rather large thread about Horus-Ra entity potrayed in a negative way, parasite and vampiric presence of sorts .
Does any of you that astral travels, ever met that being in 4D or higher? Was he/she/it a malevolent being or a divine one ?
Any insight would be greatly appreciated!
Best Regards!

[TraineeHuman]

Greetings Trainee!

The reason I ask is because I'm making an effort to raise my energy levels using some of the things I've learned. Like ditching meat, caffeine, and alcohol. I'm doing some more meditating again in my copper pyramid to get the energy flowing; get the chakras spinning. Practicing some grounding techniques and such. I created my pyramid a couple months ago and ever since I tried it out the first week, my forehead has been buzzing, as if to say, "Hey, you started this, don't stop now."
Joe

I do have a question regarding the use of pyramids in order to raise one's energy and vibration level. ( on Bovis scale)
Is the use of the pyramids lead to another false worship of past demigods civilization, archons or overall a bad idea?
Do any of you veteran's that read this thread have a strong opinion about the use of small man made pyramid (4-8 feet tall).
There is a rather large thread about Horus-Ra entity potrayed in a negative way, parasite and vampiric presence of sorts .
Does any of you that astral travels, ever met that being in 4D or higher? Was he/she/it a malevolent being or a divine one ?
Any insight would be greatly appreciated!
Best Regards!

Hi again, nevermnd. From all my observations, a pyramid structure does tend to accumulate positive energy on a 3D and 4D level. Not hugely so, but still significantly. So I certainly wouldn’t discourage anyone who likes to meditate inside a pyramid frame. As far as attracting negative entities or whatever, that’s some kind of superstitious nonsense, I’m afraid. Anyone who has a little clairvoyance should be able to confirm the presence of some positive energies, and even has connections with (very junior) healing angels. A pyramid tends to attract the opposite of negative energies, though only slightly. Of course, something like the Great Pyramid at Giza will have its (originally positive) energies manipulated in who knows what ways by so many individuals and groups.

It’s important to appreciate there are many fundamentalist Christians and other fundamentalists who may be quite clairvoyant or very clairvoyant, but their experience is still jaw-droppingly limited and they interpret everything through their special lens. That “lens” is itself very dark (destructive and life-denying and repressive) just in itself, as is their self-righteousness, unfortunately. (Self-righteousness is the primary clinical indicator of sociopathy. Not every self-righteous person is sociopathic, but every sociopathic person, and every psychotic person, is invariably very self-righteous.) Sometimes they’re still nice people and have spiritual depth of experience, despite that handicap. Probably their notion that pyramids must be “evil” originally comes, unfortunately, from the very firm belief of some of them that anything that isn’t part of the extreme version of “Christianity” as they know it must necessarily be evil and demonic.

Maybe, though, anyone who bothers to build or buy a pyramid frame should consider getting an orgone accumulator, which takes away all the electromagnetic pollution/interference big time. There’s also another, even stronger type of device for shielding against all electromagnetic interference and, with that, many external negative energies at a 3D or 4D level. I don’t remember what it’s called. I also have a simple ionizer at home, which I like to switch on for a couple of hours each day. This generates what are known as “negative ions” – but here “negative” refers to electric charge, or to having more electrons than positrons. It turns out that the “negative” electric charge as physics knows it is actually positive in its effects. Going to places where we experience nature recharges us in a good way partly because such ions are present there but not at home or an office.

Yes, there do exist demonic human beings who are demi-gods. I suspect they are the same as the “Titans”. I have very limited experience of them indeed, but I do know that they’ve all been in “jail” in the lower astral for over three thousand years now. Because they’re in jail, they can’t harm anyone unless a person deliberately invokes them through such things as black magic rituals or, say, ouija boards, or taking drugs (which tend to make you lose control, at least temporarily, of your body and mind and emotions). To the best of my knowledge, the Horus-Ra thread would deal with unfortunate experiences of contact with these beings.

Yes, there are plenty of negatively oriented entities or beings in the 4D realms. But if you protect yourself before and during traveling there, all my experience, and that of others I can personally confirm, is that they won’t harm you. They usually tend to run in the other direction from me, as far as I know. The biggest danger, as I see it, is whatever negativity is part of you but you don’t know it. This is what’s known as your “shadow side”. So, unless you’re involved in black magic or drugs, most of the dark energies you might encounter in 4D would simply be parts of yourself. They’re always there, affecting your life, whether you’re out in 4D or not. The very important topic of facing and embracing your dark side has already been discussed in this thread, from post #64 up till around late December.

Let me add that whatever you strongly resist, you are very strongly corded and attached to that very thing or phenomenon or group of beings (in your shadow side, which by definition you don't see). Thus the fundamentalist Christians etc who are (supposedly or in reality) steadfastly waging war against demonic forces have unknowingly attached themselves as strongly as possible to such forces and beings. It won't be surprising that they see a fierce and mighty devil wherever they turn. Similarly, if you go 4D and you're obsessively thinking that it'll be swarming with hostile beings, then guess what you'll see? And, guess what you'll see if you protect yourself and keep yourself covered in divine golden healing light?

[soleil]

its easier to do in actuality - than getting over how hard you think it is in your head.

its all in your head. let your expectations GO! LEAVE. have NO EXPECTATIONS. then all of what happens is your awareness to make it happen!

i also want to recommend (and have added below) the michael raduga's pdf - which has been mentioned here before.

This is my recommendation for whoever here wants a bit more DETAIL on specifics: methods to induce OBE, methods to separate, methods to retain awareness in phase etc!; than buhlman provides.

buhlman paved the ways yes(and are more up to date than monroe) but raduga makes it ridiculously easy NOW for real newbs who want to know more. again i recommend to leave expectations at door no matter what you read.

then he goes into detail to master all aspects. (and i'm still finishing it myself just started reading about deepending last night) but i definitely recommend it because its free and its ridiculously detailed. ...
http://obe4u.com/files/the_phase.pdf


teradactyl, I said I agree that if you think about what’s involved in OB travel rather than doing it (or keeping on trying to actually do it), then you’re making things unnecessarily hard for yourself. I’ve said basically that in many posts, and you may perhaps recall that in post #54 in early December I’ve even suggested you specifically were overthinking it all.

I’ve also mentioned in posts #4, #23, and a number of other posts that the traditional method of astral travel – such as Buhlmann or Monroe advocates – is tougher than it needs to be. In post #10 I describe in great detail a very simple method by which even a beginner can briefly astral travel to a past lifetime. And I know it works first try for at least 80% of people who try it. Did you do that exercise right then, last year? If not, then duh – why not??? Oh, perhaps you must have assumed my reason for describing that exercise fully was so you could think about it? Well, of course there was no way that was why I described it in post #10.

In post #23 I actually pointed out that we’re all already OB at the time when we wake up, and that it would be helpful if people just became aware of that, and then found a way to use that to learn OB travel. When, thank goodness, you later on so usefully brought up Radiga’s work (one and a half months ago?) -- which is based on the fact that we are OB when we wake up --, I made it clear (posts #296, #298) I considered that to be a much easier method than Buhlmann or Monroe etc. (Because the fact is it certainly is, just as the exercise in post #10 is also a much easier and more accessible method.) I also said that from that point on (post #298) I would assume that everyone was applying Radiga’s method. All my subsequent comments have been made under that assumption, actually.

TH, yes i accept i think too much about things. i'm just sharing my post for others who dont follow the other thread. thank you again for the reminder and reminder posts. i did not mean to crash the thread, i just wanted to cross share a post.

sorry :(

[TraineeHuman]

teradactyl, I’ve been to India twice (in the physical). Near the start of my first visit I was at a sacred city on the Ganges and managed to get to darshan with a genuine very enlightened guru. There were a number of reasons why I was ready to very seriously listen to every word that guru had to say. One reason was the unusually large size of the golden aura above his head, plus the light I could (just faintly) see was radiating from his body. (The light wasn’t such a big deal. Anyone with a certain level of mastery of kundalini can do that, and others can do it sometimes accidentally.) I also was predisposed to truly listen because I had worked out that this was one of two brothers whom Yogananda had described in very favorable terms decades earlier, situated “further along the Ganges”, as using a certain type of meditation very masterfully. That type of meditation was clearly much the same as the eye-gazing meditation I had learnt. If done properly (and that’s a huge “if”), it’s very powerful and covers everything in “energy work” without doing any bodywork. It goes back thousands of years in Hinduism but was kept very secret. After some years, I had discovered my own teacher/therapist wasn’t really doing the method in the most effective way himself. But for many years he had been receiving instruction frequently by telepathy, from two masters in India and one in Nepal. And he still never really got it right, I claim.

Anyway, at that particular town on the Ganges for the above reasons I was very ready to hang on every word this guru was going to say. There were about fifteen people at the darshan, but at the beginning before he spoke he stared specifically at me and smiled so hugely for a moment I must confess I briefly thought: “I hope he’s not gay.” Then he started talking. The first thing he said was: “You know what makes a good student?” He paused. Slowly and emphatically, he said: “A good student is one who never needs to be told anything twice.”

[Freed Fox]

I think it was finally happening this morning. At least, to some extent or another...

I need to preface this post just a little as it is my first in this thread. I will risk seeming rather flippant otherwise. You see, I have perused this thread as well as "The Secret of the Soul" from time to time for several months. This is actually one of the threads that inspired me to join originally back in December. The reason that I have not posted until now is because I have made no discernible progress (until now). I accept the blame for this fact, because I do believe the primary factor that serves to hinder me is DOUBT. Doubt in the phenomena itself, and moreover doubt in myself to remain committed and achieve results. The main thing which reinforced my self doubt is the fact that I could get nothing at all from the simple 9 step method mentioned early on (the one in which you imagine your arms and legs to be soft and rubbery, like plasticine). It was mentioned that virtually anyone could utilize that method and get results, and yet I was unable to get anything at all from repeated attempts. I know it was meant to be encouraging, but it convinced me that I was somehow 'stuck' and this experience was not meant for me.

Now, I can't say the experience this morning completely dispelled that notion. I want to share it here and would love some feedback or advice in the event that it ever happens again.

The thing that sent me 'over the edge' was something Raduga mentioned in The Phase (another resource which I've consulted but not exhausted). I was in the middle of a dream and somehow, for some reason, I happened to remember Raduga saying it was very important to look at oneself in the mirror, and examine in close detail. Now, I was not entirely lucid at this point (which makes it rather strange, to me, that I would ever remember such a thing), but as I located the nearest mirror and followed through with that advice, I felt the lucidity coming on (likely the only reason I still remember it all).

Just as Raduga described, the mirror was very foggy/hazy. I leaned in and examined my features in it closely. As I did, there was a sense that lucidity was increasing along a gradient. I at last realized I was dreaming, and realized what I was really doing. I knew this was in an effort to go astral/OOB.

The first distrurbing aspect of the experience came along as I was doing this with the mirror. The more I focused, the clearer it became. However, the clearer it became, the more troubling my visage. My skin was becoming cracked and red, as if from over exposure to the sun. It was enough to make me want to turn away, but I knew I needed full lucidity so I persisted. However, right when my awareness seemed to reach it's pinnacle (waking-conscious level), I found myself suddenly back in my body, lying on my bed, seemingly waking up.

Now, it's important to note quickly that I sleep with a shirt over my head. I know, that's pretty strange, but I need total darkness to fall asleep and my room is often too bright.

So there I was, lying in bed, and I could just see the morning sunlight from under the shirt (near the bridge of my nose). I tried to move or get up, but could not. I thought, 'ok... sleep paralysis, no big deal'. It's happened to me before. However, it soon became apparent that this was not entirely the case.

I felt a crushing weight located right above my navel. It felt distinctly like someone was pressing down upon my stomach, and effectively pinning me down there. After a minute or two I managed to remove the shirt from my eyes and saw two girls, dilly-dallying about the bed and making silly excuses for why they had been holding me down. Because I did not know these girls, and because it made no sense at all, I realized again that it was a dream, and back I was again in the same situation; a small sliver of morning light accompanied by my otherwise obscured vision. Still I was unable to move, and still the heavy, uncomfortable (almost painful) pressure upon my navel.

Now, here's where it gets really strange. I realized that I was actually OOB, but lying in my body (so, not entirely one way or the other I guess). The sudden dream with the two girls and the faux-explaination therein somehow struck me as a planted dream, to 'throw me off the trail', as it were. I suddenly realized that whatever was causing the pressure was actively preventing me from fully going OOB. With a sudden increased determination, I lifted what I thought to be my physical arm to investigate where my eyes could not. Later I realized my physical body was still paralyzed, and this was movement at the astral level.

I was laying near the right side of my bed, you see, and because I still couldn't see, I figured that there must be someone or something on that side of the bed, pushing down on me. I waved the 'free' arm (my right), a foot or so over my stomach, where the pressure was occuring. I expected my arm to run in to the arms of the perpetrator (again, it felt distinctly like someone pushing down on me. Instead, my arm waved down and back up again, two times over, unobstructed and feeling nothing there.

At this point two things happened in quick succession. First, there was a fairly intense burning sensation which came along to accompany the pressure (which did not lessen), and again it was localized over this area (the area which, I realize, correlates to the solar plexus). Then, last but not least, the strangest thing of the whole ordeal as well as the last before I woke up for real and was able to get out of bed. There was a voice. It was intensely robotic, with a droning sort of tone (similar to Stephen Hawking, but with even more of a 'mechanical' kind of quality). It said "YOU PATRONIZE ME. YOU [PAINT ME] AS A VILLAIN."
(The part in brackets I am not 100% sure about. It might have been PORTRAY ME or something like that. The rest I remember distinctly).

So there it is. I got up with a strange sort of phantom sensation where all the pressure had been. Note that I was laying on my back and there was nothing with enough weight that could have produced that feeling naturally. That robotic voice stuck in my head, and made me really reflect on what it was and what it meant. I walked around in quiet contemplation and listened to one of my family members conversing with a 'tech guy' who came to fix our internet. There seemed to be an intensely strange amount of synchronicities in their conversation, related to what I was thinking about at the time. That part is hard to describe, and I suppose unrelated to the OBE itself, so I'll leave it at that.

Anyway, again I would love to hear feedback and/or insight on this, if anyone has any. And thank you TraineeHuman, both for this thread and for entertaining the experience of one such as myself, whose own misgivings have thus far held him back from fully committing to this most perplexing yet exciting endeavor.

All the best :)

[Jake]

Freed Fox... Wow! Quite the amazing experience. Of course you were out. Many times I have been able to move astral arms and/or legs while being pinned by the paralysis. You seem quite saavy for someone who has had such little experience withe OBE. I have never been able to put together an 'exit strategy' or 'method' that will 'induce' and OBE. My experiences occur spontaneously. There are all sorts of energy body phenomenon that can occur while in the critical moment of exit. Getting 'stuck in your body' is typical of a 'solar center' exit. The burning will not always be there. Do not be surprised if it changes to a mild hum, or vibration. Do some studies on the energy body and primary energy centers, or chakras. They are real. It took a long time to realize that 'exiting' occurs from a specific energy center,, It could be a 'crown center' exit, which will be accompanied by strong energetic feelings in your skull, and strong pulsing. It could be a 'brow center' exit that will be accompanied by shocking visuals, colors, sounds, and strong pulsing in that area. Sometimes a single 'pulse' will hit you in the face. It feels like getting hit in the face for real. (there is a recovery period from a strong pulse)

The intense pressure in your Solar makes it seem like you are being held down... I suppose it is possible,,, but in my experience, that is how an active 'solar center' feels. It can sometimes feel lower, like in your gut, or sometimes higher, in your chest. Traditionally this was known as the 'old hag' syndrome. Same symptoms, chest pressure, paralysis, and the distinct feeling that someone is in the room, and possibly holding you down. You are free to interpret this phenomenon however you wish. But let me tell you,,, I spent many years being distracted by my interp of what was happening.

I had a problem with what I call the 'dweller on the threshold'... It is the same as the old hag,, (or two little girls) For me, it was a shadowy, menacing creature with wings and red eyes!!! My progress was held up for years with this problem... All I can tell you is this,, we manifest our fears and doubts before we manifest out love and joy. It is not a rule, but it is human nature. Therefore, getting past the 'dweller', means dealing with fear and/or doubt. Not that the 'dweller' is not real,,, but he/she teaches you to stand in your own power, and to conquer fear. If you do not, you will have much difficulty navigating in the Astral, which is mostly a thought responsive environment. The 'dweller' is your first test... if you cannot get past the dweller,,, then you cannot get past your own fears, or doubts.

That is my experience. Try to be aware of your energy body when you are practicing toward OBE.

Thank you for sharing.. Please keep us updated.


WELCOME TO FLIGHT SCHOOL!!!

Jake.

[OOO]

Hi Freed Fox,

I am no expert in these matters, but from experience I will share my take on your adventure.

During our conscious state if we amuse ourseleves with "heavy" entertainment it will trickle down/up into our subconscious.
What occupies your mind in the day time? Pay attention. Usually we go about things unaware researching subjects on aliens, ghosts, illuminati, etc...in search of finding or satisfying our curiosity.

I have found that "lightening" my daily intake of info helps and being aware of my emotional states. If you nip the negative thought in the bud it helps.

Side note: i love being in my body. Isn't that the reason why we chose to incarnate on earth?

Anyway, hope this means something to you.

[Freed Fox]

Thank you for the warm welcome and encouragement, not to mention the sound advice.

Jake, what you said about overcoming 'the dweller' rings particularly true. I have spent a great deal of time trying to expel the fear in my life (esp. over the past few years), and although I do believe I've made progress in that regard, I have a lot of work left to do in conquering doubt. Looking back upon my life, from my earliest memories of childhood, it has been my greatest obstacle (and the one I have never really overcome). I think if anything is truly holding me back, it must be that.

The voice certainly caught me off guard, and I have to wonder if it was at all tied to that. Despite how strange/unnatural it was, it did not frighten me but rather left me a bit confused. I'm still pondering where it came from and what it meant... :confused:

[TraineeHuman]

I guess everyone needs to learn how to create protection and healing power for themselves before and during the time they go into the astral. If you haven’t learnt how to “stand in your own power”, I guess I would say “standing in your own power” is part of that process of creatimg protection and healing. As far as I can see, such “standing” partly means just truly liking yourself and accepting yourself.

This may sound quite trite, but I’ve observed that most people secretly neither like nor accept themselves. I guess it’s a gradual process. Meditation seems to help accelerate that process. So also does self-enquiry / self-observation, which is a kind of looking at oneself in the mirror emotionally rather than in the astral.

When I started out astral traveling I always found it easier to go “out” through the crown of the head, or sometimes to “roll” gently out of the solar plexus region.

But then I went to a psychic “study circle” where the teacher would take the whole class into the astral. There the “takeoff” would take about one second (sometimes brief queasiness in the solar plexus) and then it felt like one had a “double” of one’s body that went flying. The flying was always a hugely fun feeling. And you could tell you weren’t in the physical because of the “landscapes” you saw.

After leaving that teacher I learnt how to go flying in zero seconds from startup by being taken “up” by certain groups of benevolent “guides” (dead people who had been quite “spiritually” developed) or healing angels. I’ve encountered various “guardians of thresholds”, but none while I was “taken up” by any such group. And by this stage I was well past any fear or any real danger of psychic attack (except once, by my ex-wife at the time we were splitting up, and then only because she had plenty of energy cords connecting to many bones in my body).

A number of months later I learnt to “fly” on my own, usually while I was awake but also during sleep, and even to both “fly” but also consciously retain a small amount of awareness of at least some parts of my body even if it was just fingertips and elbows and the seat of my bottom.

When I learnt to “fly” on my own, it was my HS that took me there. The separation from the physical was instantaneous, and has continued to be so most of the time ever since. So I would suggest that if you want to learn to very strongly stand in your own power, start learning to communicate with your HS.

[TraineeHuman]

Freed Fox, one problem is that the mind is a very subtle thing. Unfortunately, all that we have to communicate with in an internet Forum is words (and maybe symbols, which are still the same thing). Unfortunately we can’t use telepathy – not with accuracy – even though that is the preferred method of communication for many beings, and even for animals. Because we’re confined to words, it’s easy for the reader to get trapped. Unless the reader has fully experienced what the writer of a post may have their attention on, the reader necessarily fails to “get” the moon the writer can see, and is left only with a finger pointing in the general direction of the moon.

This problem remains regardless of how clearly or accurately or whatever some of the words in a description may be. So, it’s unfortunately likely that any exercise someone describes that’s intended to lead the reader to something new won’t get done properly. This is because the reader only has the old, and they’re almost kind of forced to use the old to try to get the new. In doing so, their mind will complicate everything no end. Their mind will try to adjust for the misinterpretation of the intended message. That misinterpretation isn’t the mind’s fault even, not directly. But the end result is gigantic overthinking and also even more worry about the “how” when what’s mainly important is the “what”. What you do.

I would bet that if somebody with professional training was actually there getting you to do the steps in the exercise in #10, or in Raduga’s method, they would tell you things such as to relax more, to stop all worry if you are doing things right. And then, I believe, the odds of your doing it successfully would increase. Maybe everyone needs to get their partner to guide them, and to insist that they do all the worrying about whether you’re doing things “right”.

Also, in the case of #10 it's essential that the person takes lots of time on each step, until they've successfully done the step. I appreciate some steps require stretching the imagination -- which is no doubt half the point of the exercise. But if the person says they can't visualise e.g. seeing some detail of their front door that they've never noticed before, it's crucial that they wait and get their imagination to make up such a detail somehow, so vividly that they "see" it in their mind even if maybe it could be pure fantasy, before moving on to the next step. At that step, again, if the person gets a blank, they have to really use their imagination to fill in the "blanks".

[TraineeHuman]

Considering that that was your first experience, Freed Fox, I’d be inclined just to emphasize: “Congratulations on disidentifying from your body!” After all, the matrix tries to control us by keeping us so identified with our bodies that we don’t realise we’re infinite beings.

Of course we also need to be attuned with our physical body. But with that understood, I’d say: “Just keep on disidentifying (and protect yourself properly)”. The rest is just details.

[Eram]

As far as I can see, such “standing” partly means just truly liking yourself and accepting yourself.

This may sound quite trite, but I’ve observed that most people secretly neither like nor accept themselves. I guess it’s a gradual process. Meditation seems to help accelerate that process. So also does self-enquiry / self-observation, which is a kind of looking at oneself in the mirror emotionally rather than in the astral.

This feels very true to me TraineeHuman.
Self-inquiry /self-observation has always been my forte, but I used to do it with a judgmental attitude, which brought me insight in my persona and life in general, but did not bring me relief in suffering,... at all.
No surprise there of course ;).

A few months ago I followed up on an idea that I got and I believe that his is the cause (partly at least) at my recent progression in my development.
I scan myself for feelings of unease, nervousness that it itching at the borders of my consciousness and identify what it is.
Mostly it are judgments that my 'inner parent' is making to my 'inner child' at that moment that is causing this unease.
"You are not trying hard enough, you are not strong enough, you are not performing enough"... things like this.
Then I focus on the 'inner child' and his feelings, where I can feel hurting and regret.
Then I give my inner child a big hug in the understanding that this inner child has the best of intentions.

I do this exercise only 3 to 5 times a day and there are days that i don't do it at all, but I can sense that there is a shift taking place in me and I suspect that this exercise has to do with it.
I feel more at ease with myself and with the people around me. More and more of my judgmental nature is fading away it seems and what is taking it's place is more warmth and being at peace.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if my connecting to my Higher Self has a foundation in this exercise :)

[Finefeather]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if my connecting to my Higher Self has a foundation in this exercise :)
Hi Eram
Sorry to be rude and interject, your post just popped up out of no where, and I read it and...well ?? :)

So then if it will not surprise you then you must be secretly expecting it...is this inner knowing blossoming?
An important hurdle to bridge is realizing the oneness of what we think we are and the thing we call the Higher Self.
We can soon recognize this Higher part of us because...it is the one in our head who is, more sane, more loving, more honest, more reasonable, more reliable...anything less is just the battle with the old outer ways. There will come a time when the Higher Self...also known as the Soul is in full command of our life...this is the day we all look forward to secretly and when it comes we often end up walking around with a big grin on our face...knowing full well we knew the answer all the time.
Take care
Ray

[TraineeHuman]

As far as I can see, such “standing” partly means just truly liking yourself and accepting yourself.

This may sound quite trite, but I’ve observed that most people secretly neither like nor accept themselves. I guess it’s a gradual process. Meditation seems to help accelerate that process. So also does self-enquiry / self-observation, which is a kind of looking at oneself in the mirror emotionally rather than in the astral.

... I scan myself for feelings of unease, nervousness that it itching at the borders of my consciousness and identify what it is.
Mostly it are judgments that my 'inner parent' is making to my 'inner child' at that moment that is causing this unease.
"You are not trying hard enough, you are not strong enough, you are not performing enough"... things like this.
Then I focus on the 'inner child' and his feelings, where I can feel hurting and regret.
Then I give my inner child a big hug in the understanding that this inner child has the best of intentions.

I do this exercise only 3 to 5 times a day and there are days that i don't do it at all, but I can sense that there is a shift taking place in me and I suspect that this exercise has to do with it.
I feel more at ease with myself and with the people around me. More and more of my judgmental nature is fading away it seems and what is taking it's place is more warmth and being at peace.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if my connecting to my Higher Self has a foundation in this exercise :)

So your “inner parent” is now very different from the older version of your “inner parent”. From what you say, it has now learnt to be completely nonjudgmental. It must have learnt that from your HS?
Sounds like it may even be relaying some messages, or parts of messages, from the HS?
Also, that your inner child is calming down enough to help the “parent” listen to what it’s receiving.

One thing I find amazing is how the HS knows no limits for itself. At every moment, it knows how to make absolutely everything right. It lives in the Now. But it also knows that it needs to patiently work with the outer self, which includes what people call the inner child. And it waits for those special moments when a person's outer self can make everything in a relationship or a job or whatever right, to fix everything that was broken.

[TraineeHuman]

Eram, I was reflecting on how you were taking guidance or reassurance from your “inner parent”, which I would see as (mostly) your HS, to be honest. I suddenly realised why for the last five years on these Forums I’ve urged people passionately to be their own spiritual teacher as far as they can.

The realization that hit me is that all the words on the Forum can only get to the mind, to the outer self. They can’t talk to the HS. That's impossible, through just words alone. All they can do is help a person develop the right kind of mindset (including will power probably, and wholesome habits). It needs of course to be a mindset that kind of points to the HS and that welcomes the HS as the HS starts to communicate and come down. (If anybody’s tired of my saying “HS” all the time, call it what you like. “The Force”, or whatever.)

Once anybody starts engaging their HS, even starts to communicate with it, from then on they have to be their own authority, their own guru. (As Jesus says in the Gospel: "Let anyone who has once put their hand to the plough and dug never turn back.") I’ve seen quite a few followers of teachers or gurus who hated this and refused to accept it, yet it seems to be the very thing that was holding them back.

So, for instance, my preferred way to go OB is to call down my HS and let it take over that task. I don’t worry about whether I’m doing some technique or some detail right or not. Instead, I’m guided by my inner intuitive knowing of what details may be relevant. That works, and I’m sorry to say it’s the easy way to astral travel – but only if you have that connection with your HS consciously set up.

[nevermnd]

..........

[TraineeHuman]

Once anybody starts engaging their HS, even starts to communicate with it, from then on they have to be their own authority, their own guru. (As Jesus says in the Gospel: "Let anyone who has once put their hand to the plough and dug never turn back.") I’ve seen quite a few followers of teachers or gurus who hated this and refused to accept it, yet it seems to be the very thing that was holding them back.



I think that's very profound to put this in the open here.
Your unparalleled objectivity is such a big breath of fresh air. The idea of "I'm your guru for life" so strongly expressed by many spiritual masters was always a strong turn off for me.

What also come to mind is a quote that I seemed to remember from much earlier in this thread:



I once experienced a situation where I was massively cheated by a very clever individual. I asked my clairvoyant advisor – one of the most accurate of the many clairvoyants I have known – and she said there was nothing I would be able to do about this exploitation, because that individual had a higher level of consciousness/awareness than myself, at least where it counted. Certainly that individual would eventually have to deal with his life-review when he dies. But the ruling elite ultimately can only stay in power by in some way or other trapping very many highly aware/conscious individuals in childhood and keeping them in their ranks.


Through the experiences that you had over many years, good and bad, are you able to recongnise the warning sings/red flags when somone is trying to cheat you ? Financially, spiritually or in any immoral way for that matter.
If the con artist does have a level of awareness much higher than oneself, is there nothing we can do but to get defrauded?

It's all about intuition, developing our intuition. And our intuition is part of our HS, so it's a matter of more and more allowing our HS to stand in its power and hearing it better and listening to it more fully. Even before we learn to communicate with our HS, the signs are often there, the omens are often there -- warnings from GAs, guides, even briefly the HS.

Sometimes there are no warnings because it's better if we learn through making that particular mistake. After all, the best way to learn in any field is through making at least a few mistakes along the way. Beethoven used to write far more drafts of his music than any other composer.

But even if I assume my HS is taking a "no comment" position regarding something, if I'm wrong about that then my HS will pull me down into the lower astral during dreams to make sure I at least get the message that something's wrong regarding a current major choice.

Our failure to hear the warnings, if they come, has three causes. One is the distortion or "noise" coming from our baggage. Hopefully we are all busily getting rid of most of that. While it's still mostly there, it's often too big an obstacle to hearing our HS.

The second cause is that we haven't "sharpened" our intuition enough. That also takes a long time to do. The exercise in #24 was intended as a start in this, and contains the essential "ingredients" that need to be developed.

The third cause is that -- as when my HS, in desperation, brings on nightmares -- we simply haven't been putting our attention on the area where the problem is, and haven't noticed our HS is concerned about it.

[Chester]

Hi TH and Folks - Last night I had a lengthy, multi-event vivid dream with Barack Obama. In fact, I was a special 9undercover) agent within the Secret Service where I had to protect him.

Now here's is the weirdest part. In my waking, conscious state, I have gotten extremely sick of this guy. Why? Because he is an obvious, constant, no-conscience liar. When he happens to come onto a TV or radio I am listening to, I turn it off just because I am sick of this guy.

YET! In the dream, I loved him. Yes... I felt pure love and admiriation and appreciation for him. I recall one part in the dream where he was making a public appearance and was wearing an "aviation jacket" (and I do not even know what that would be in my waking state... but in the dream, when he came out wearing this jacket, I recall saying to myself, "wow... what a cool guy... and look, he is wearing an aviation jacket." I also recall feeling an awesome sense of self pride in that it was my job to help protect him. I also recalled that I had this strange sense he could be in danger because he truly wanted to help humanity and was not afraid to go against the PTBs. The jacket was a very light, pastel color of purple... I guess a light shade of lavender.

It is 13 or more hours after the dream and I still recall this specific part and believe (like my other dreams involving presidents) I will remember this dream for years.

Now, in my waking state, I feel bad for him. I feel bad for people... all of us... that we are so easily manipulated and that we could sell out for ideals shared by a few or for cronies we have buddied up with or for an image of a legacy we might want to leave... sell out at any cost, including being 100% totally and knowingly dishonest and being able to do so with such a strait face... like I see Barack Obama to be in my waking state.

[TraineeHuman]

Last night I had a lengthy, multi-event vivid dream with Barack Obama. In fact, I was a special 9undercover) agent within the Secret Service where I had to protect him.

Now here's is the weirdest part. In my waking, conscious state, I have gotten extremely sick of this guy. Why? Because he is an obvious, constant, no-conscience liar. When he happens to come onto a TV or radio I am listening to, I turn it off just because I am sick of this guy.

YET! In the dream, I loved him. Yes... I felt pure love and admiriation and appreciation for him.... It is 13 or more hours after the dream and I still recall this specific part and believe (like my other dreams involving presidents) I will remember this dream for years.


Hi Chester, one remark I would make is that hate is a form of attachment. And although at a conscious physical level we like to think of hate as a kind of avoidance and disconnection, the truth is it’s merely a left-handed or shadow form of attachment. (Not thinking of that luminous green elephant in the room.) Attachment isn’t far from what many people may sometimes think of as “love”.

I note that in your dream you also seemed strongly attached to being important because you were responsible for protecting Obama. But you don’t need Obama to make you important. You’re equally valuable and beautiful – and, I suspect, probably much more of a character, in a good way.

As long as anyone is preoccupied with hate or infatuation, they’re in the grip of their baggage, which I like to call “(most of) the personality” but many call “the ego”. I’m sure much has already been written in this Forum regarding the ego. It’s absolutely essential for everyone to learn to stop letting their ego have much control over them at all. Also to learn not to let it infect their mind. The ego, the personality just isn’t important. You have to learn now not to ever let your mind take part in the ego’s dramatizing of everything. You need to disconnect the mind from all that, and detach, push out from it. The only way to do this is to make the will calm and steady. Yes, it does take will power at this point.

Your ego has been fighting back for some time by pulling your strings and hitting you with depression. N'est pas? (Yes, it’s a living thing, and even has a little awareness.) That depression it sinks you into is just your ego pouting. Your ego – everyone’s ego – is an idiot, unless and until perhaps it gets enlightened by the HS sufficiently to get some sense into it so it no longer feels so dissatisfied and so unrecognized. I don’t just mean your ego, Chester. Everybody’s ego is basically the same. You can only beat it by staying calm and steady. And by practice at “turning the volume down” of everything that unhappy brat says, turning it down softer so that after some time you’re virtually ignoring it all the time. But you have to keep up that calm, steady, peaceful strength of will. Softly does it. I'm afraid this also means throwing away all your gigantic attachment to your dreams involving Presidents. That attachment is a heavy burden. Believe me,it will be a huge relief for you when you finally just drop it.

The HS lives in peace. That peace is free from all polarities, such as “love”/hate, pleasure/pain, excitement/boredom, like/dislike. (It’s not a blank either, because some things are their own opposite, and therefore beyond all duality: real “love”, understanding, real joy, being, certain types of goodness, and so on.)

[TraineeHuman]

For the benefit of anyone who hasn’t seen the “Activating Higher Mind” thread in the Books, Videos, Articles, etc. sub-section of General Discussion, thanks to Luise Filipe there’s a fascinating video in post #5 there.

In that video Drunvalo explains how to do-it-yourself to “activate” the connection from the pineal gland (the mind) to the heart, in a very short space of time. At the beginning of the video Drunvalo explains that he sees the proper reconnection between the mind and the heart as what real “Ascension” is all about -- and hence, implicitly, he sees this as making communication with the HS easier. It’s clear that such “activation” also extends to the oversoul point.

Here’s the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTNtPk_S7Og

I find this very interesting and eerily familiar personally for the following reason. Although I “activated” my crown chakra many years ago so that I sometimes feel physical energies flowing through the top of the head, more recently there was a period of around five years when my guardian angels would work on my pineal chakra every time I meditated each day. It would feel at least vaguely uncomfortable, and usually felt either physically cool or like a silent buzzing, or both. I was aware this had something to do with improving or extending the connection with my heart and with my physical body intelligence generally. I suspect that at the beginning of those five years part of what was being done was the equivalent of the exercise Drunvalo describes. Various details fit exactly with some things Drunvalo describes.

[Chester]

I wanted to post a specific post but I then felt bad as my post might be viewed as disruptive... If asked, I may post in a new, separate thread. Chester

[wolfgaze]

Cool thread. I am going to have to read through all 24 pages when I get a chance. I am currently exploring the Outer-Body-Experience phenomenon and reading a book entitled 'Astral Dynamics' by Robert Bruce. I also have other books on this subject matter but haven't gotten to them yet. Never had an OBE outside of the dream state but I hope to change that soon. : )

[kintun]

Last night I had a lengthy, multi-event vivid dream with Barack Obama. In fact, I was a special 9undercover) agent within the Secret Service where I had to protect him.

Now here's is the weirdest part. In my waking, conscious state, I have gotten extremely sick of this guy. Why? Because he is an obvious, constant, no-conscience liar. When he happens to come onto a TV or radio I am listening to, I turn it off just because I am sick of this guy.

YET! In the dream, I loved him. Yes... I felt pure love and admiriation and appreciation for him.... It is 13 or more hours after the dream and I still recall this specific part and believe (like my other dreams involving presidents) I will remember this dream for years.


Hi Chester, one remark I would make is that hate is a form of attachment. And although at a conscious physical level we like to think of hate as a kind of avoidance and disconnection, the truth is it’s merely a left-handed or shadow form of attachment. (Not thinking of that luminous green elephant in the room.) Attachment isn’t far from what many people may sometimes think of as “love”.

I note that in your dream you also seemed strongly attached to being important because you were responsible for protecting Obama. But you don’t need Obama to make you important. You’re equally valuable and beautiful – and, I suspect, probably much more of a character, in a good way.

As long as anyone is preoccupied with hate or infatuation, they’re in the grip of their baggage, which I like to call “(most of) the personality” but many call “the ego”. I’m sure much has already been written in this Forum regarding the ego. It’s absolutely essential for everyone to learn to stop letting their ego have much control over them at all. Also to learn not to let it infect their mind. The ego, the personality just isn’t important. You have to learn now not to ever let your mind take part in the ego’s dramatizing of everything. You need to disconnect the mind from all that, and detach, push out from it. The only way to do this is to make the will calm and steady. Yes, it does take will power at this point.

Your ego has been fighting back for some time by pulling your strings and hitting you with depression. N'est pas? (Yes, it’s a living thing, and even has a little awareness.) That depression it sinks you into is just your ego pouting. Your ego – everyone’s ego – is an idiot, unless and until perhaps it gets enlightened by the HS sufficiently to get some sense into it so it no longer feels so dissatisfied and so unrecognized. I don’t just mean your ego, Chester. Everybody’s ego is basically the same. You can only beat it by staying calm and steady. And by practice at “turning the volume down” of everything that unhappy brat says, turning it down softer so that after some time you’re virtually ignoring it all the time. But you have to keep up that calm, steady, peaceful strength of will. Softly does it. I'm afraid this also means throwing away all your gigantic attachment to your dreams involving Presidents. That attachment is a heavy burden. Believe me,it will be a huge relief for you when you finally just drop it.

The HS lives in peace. That peace is free from all polarities, such as “love”/hate, pleasure/pain, excitement/boredom, like/dislike. (It’s not a blank either, because some things are their own opposite, and therefore beyond all duality: real “love”, understanding, real joy, being, certain types of goodness, and so on.)

Hi!
I was thinking so much in the fact that polarity is part of our nature, part of being human. And also judgment.
Fear comes out of that.
If we see something or someone different or strange or ugly while in meditation or in OBE...we first define it as good or bad, and act in consequence. Why?
When we walk along the street and watch trees, bugs, cars, people, weather, lights, clouds, etc. We don't judge them. They just ARE. I would dare say that having that kind of view while working with your HS (say OBE or in meditation) can help improve your confidence and let your fears go away. Our universe is so amazing and diverse!
TraineeHuman has mentioned a couple of times the importance of embracing our dark side to get along with the experience. It's easier when you don't judge it. As if that ugly face was one of somebody you don’t know. Fear comes when you judge it.

Well, just a little reflection here....:biggrin:

[wolfgaze]

When I started reading books on the subject matter of spirituality approx 11 years ago I had recalled reading several authors referencing astral projection and about how an element of our consciousness/soul separates from the physical body during the sleep/dream state but stays connected via a silvery, etheric 'cord'. I could never confirm such assertions but always kept an open mind about them. Well last year I had an interesting experience and keep in mind as I indicated in an earlier post in this thread, I have never had an OBE in the conscious/waking state.

One night last year I had been sleeping in bed (on my stomach as I always do) and I had a conscious recollection of looking down on my body in bed, and then before I knew it my perspective or visual vantage point was back to being in my physical body. I immediately awoke in bed feeling startled and alarmed, the first thought I had was that someone or something was in the room with me or behind me. I was disoriented from having the perspective of looking at my body. I must have fallen back asleep shortly after. However when I awoke in the morning I had full recollection of this experience from the night before. With my better senses I was able to quickly surmise that there was no one and nothing else in the room with me during that experience, that it was in fact ME who was looking down on my body, and that experience of my perspective changing was what gave me the impression of there being someone else in the room with me.

Just another small experience that reaffirmed to me that our consciousness is not confined to our physical body. This experience helped confirm for me what I had read all those years ago about an element of our consciousness/soul separating from the body during the sleep/dream state. : )

[TraineeHuman]

If we see something or someone different or strange or ugly while in meditation or in OBE...we first define it as good or bad, and act in consequence. Why?
When we walk along the street and watch trees, bugs, cars, people, weather, lights, clouds, etc. We don't judge them. They just ARE. I would dare say that having that kind of view while working with your HS (say OBE or in meditation) can help improve your confidence and let your fears go away. Our universe is so amazing and diverse!
... It's easier when you don't judge it. As if that ugly face was one of somebody you don’t know. Fear comes when you judge it.
:biggrin:

Yep, no initial judgment, and no duality, where possible. I’m greatly in favor of everyone – at whatever “stage” they are at -- finding ways to make non-duality real in their life now, step by small step, in whatever ways they can. Since the HS lives mostly in non-duality, this will bring a person closer to being in touch with their HS, and even closer to Source itself.

Learning to see more things from a nonjudgmental point of view is one of the easiest of these. Just because we see things nonjudgmentally, that sure doesn’t mean we can’t then act on a situation to change it. But first we need to see that situation as it really is. Also, the meditation traditions all teach that the first thing to do is to just pay attention – or to just concentrate on what’s there. You can’t pay attention to what is in a judgmental fashion, because instead of seeing what is you’d be seeing your evaluation of what is (covered with tags such as “like” or “dislike”).

The more strongly you can learn to hold the attitude of nonjudgmentalism steady in you, the more easy and smooth it will be for you to go out and stay OB, that I can guarantee.

It’s rather miraculous – and probably incomprehensible to the mind – that we can move beyond some dualities at all. Eventually there is a point where you feel spread throughout infinity, and that feeling stays with you. And you know for certain that the universe (the multiverse) really is infinite. And that you are somehow inside every self and every manifestation of life here and in every dimension. Some of us have been there.

[Joe Akulis]

Wolfgaze,
Isn't it kinda cool when you reach a point in your studies where you put the book down and realize, "Hey.... I can do this too!"

[nevermnd]

..........

[nevermnd]

I wanted to post a specific post but I then felt bad as my post might be viewed as disruptive... If asked, I may post in a new, separate thread. Chester
I always enjoy reading your posts! I belive that this thread started to go beyond strictly OBE's long time ago :)

[TraineeHuman]

When I started reading books on the subject matter of spirituality approx 11 years ago I had recalled reading several authors referencing astral projection and about how an element of our consciousness/soul separates from the physical body during the sleep/dream state but stays connected via a silvery, etheric 'cord'. I could never confirm such assertions but always kept an open mind about them. Well last year I had an interesting experience and keep in mind as I indicated in an earlier post in this thread, I have never had an OBE in the conscious/waking state.

One night last year I had been sleeping in bed (on my stomach as I always do) and I had a conscious recollection of looking down on my body in bed, and then before I knew it my perspective or visual vantage point was back to being in my physical body. I immediately awoke in bed feeling startled and alarmed, the first thought I had was that someone or something was in the room with me or behind me. I was disoriented from having the perspective of looking at my body. I must have fallen back asleep shortly after. However when I awoke in the morning I had full recollection of this experience from the night before. With my better senses I was able to quickly surmise that there was no one and nothing else in the room with me during that experience, that it was in fact ME who was looking down on my body, and that experience of my perspective changing was what gave me the impression of there being someone else in the room with me.

Just another small experience that reaffirmed to me that our consciousness is not confined to our physical body. This experience helped confirm for me what I had read all those years ago about an element of our consciousness/soul separating from the body during the sleep/dream state. : )

Hi, Wolfgaze. You may like to start with Raduga’s methods at http://obe4u.com/files/the_phase.pdf . I know it looks like there are many pages there, but it’s extremely easy and quick to read the initial instructions. And it’s just a matter of doing it. No big deal, really. Just do it. I hope we hear from you again soon regarding your experience.

[AwakeInADream]

For the benefit of anyone who hasn’t seen the “Activating Higher Mind” thread in the Books, Videos, Articles, etc. sub-section of General Discussion, thanks to Luise Filipe there’s a fascinating video in post #5 there.

In that video Drunvalo explains how to do-it-yourself to “activate” the connection from the pineal gland (the mind) to the heart, in a very short space of time. At the beginning of the video Drunvalo explains that he sees the proper reconnection between the mind and the heart as what real “Ascension” is all about -- and hence, implicitly, he sees this as making communication with the HS easier. It’s clear that such “activation” also extends to the oversoul point.

Here’s the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTNtPk_S7Og

I find this very interesting and eerily familiar personally for the following reason. Although I “activated” my crown chakra many years ago so that I sometimes feel physical energies flowing through the top of the head, more recently there was a period of around five years when my guardian angels would work on my pineal chakra every time I meditated each day. It would feel at least vaguely uncomfortable, and usually felt either physically cool or like a silent buzzing, or both. I was aware this had something to do with improving or extending the connection with my heart and with my physical body intelligence generally. I suspect that at the beginning of those five years part of what was being done was the equivalent of the exercise Drunvalo describes. Various details fit exactly with some things Drunvalo describes.

I must admit that I've never really given Drunvalo a chance before because I was slightly suspicious of him calling himself Melchizedek (a name which I am drawn to and highly respect). I figured that he must be some kind of fraud trying to attract people to him using such a powerful name, but from watching the video he seems to me to be a genuine guy. Still I'm not about to start following any Guru's just yet, contact with Higher Self beats all Guru's (and any book you can read) hands down.

I really liked the video though and it certainly rang true for me, it explained the merry dance I feel about my brain (more complex than I thought it should be), the 'extra' chakra I sensed at my (receding) hairline and the sides of my head. Synchronicity too since I'd recently been reading about the importance of connecting the heart to the pineal chakra in a document called:
"A Kabbalistic Guide to Lucid Dreaming and Astral Projection"

Here are some selected quotes from the document:


The heart is the seat of intuition, the Voice of the Soul, and the Interior Master, only through its awakening can we become conscious and free beings. However, the energy of the awakened heart, with all of its love, must be transferred to the physical brain for insight and understanding. In doing so, it requires the assistance of the Throat center. Once in the brain, the energy must also be able to return to the heart, or send information there for spiritual consideration....

Just as the pituitary gland reacts to light physical light, it also reacts to the awakening of the spiritual lightcaused by an awakened Heart - a Heart filled with love.....

This need to awaken both the heart and brain, is what is required for travels through the psychic realms. An awakened heart with no brain is subject to an extreme lack of practicality; and a brain with no heart can function psychically, but only in a cold and detached manner. The ‘thinking heart’ and ‘feeling brain’ are what Mercury help us to establish. In doing so, the polarity is overcome through union and the material and remaining psychic forces of our body are brought into play in a harmonious manner.

Available in full here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/133158169/A-Kabbalistic-Guide-to-Lucid-Dreaming-and-Astral-Projection

There are also exercises to try at the end of the document, from a different perspective/discipline/lense.

Awake

P.S. I think the reason I'm drawn to the Kabbalah is both because it's sole aim is to re-connect with source (which is all I've ever wanted), and that perhaps I was Jewish in a previous (yet close) life. A mind loop I received a while back directly referenced Hitler, and gave me the distinct impression that I was a prisoner in a concentration camp at the time. I've also felt at times a disproportionate anger towards those who align themselves with Nazi ideologies, where my usual calm and philosophical manner breaks down. It's somewhat of a sore point for me, which must have come from the baggage of another lifetime.

P.P.S TraineeHuman, can you explain to me what is the difference between (and meaning of the terms) the Soul and the Oversoul? And how do they relate to the Higher self?

Is the Oversoul God/Source, and the Soul HS?

[kintun]

It’s rather miraculous – and probably incomprehensible to the mind – that we can move beyond some dualities at all. Eventually there is a point where you feel spread throughout infinity, and that feeling stays with you. And you know for certain that the universe (the multiverse) really is infinite. And that you are somehow inside every self and every manifestation of life here and in every dimension. Some of us have been there.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't sure to mention it before, but I have been twice in something I think was the source, or near it.
The first time I was in a lucid dream and my sister told me she had learned how to reach God and wanted to show him to me. So she moved her arms and suddenly I was flying over an ocean of a liquid silvery material. And I joined a flow of sparks of light (I was one of them) which were traveling really fast in the same direction. At that moment I felt myself bursting with bliss, joy and all kind of emotions altogether. ... It was SO SO intense that I couldn't stand it for more than a few seconds. I woke up filled with joy and comprehension and love for everyone and everything (I know it sounds kind of cliché, but that's how it felt). It was like the confirmation that we are all one.
It was a very special experience, full of deep learning....and difficult to explain. :)

[wolfgaze]

Hi, Wolfgaze. You may like to start with Raduga’s methods at http://obe4u.com/files/the_phase.pdf . I know it looks like there are many pages there, but it’s extremely easy and quick to read the initial instructions. And it’s just a matter of doing it. No big deal, really. Just do it. I hope we hear from you again soon regarding your experience.

Thanks very much. I downloaded the pdf and will be looking through it.

[wolfgaze]

Question, do any of you more experienced OBE'ers recommend the use of audio stimulation? The reason I ask is that I am an individual who has difficulty meditating/relaxing in complete silence. I also have very sensitive hearing and live on a busy street with passing traffic that I can hear (which I find distracting).

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Good question. Buhlman has music (http://www.astralinfo.org/obe-products/) for OBE on his website, but cannot say how effective it is. I'm still doing various exercises to get out. No success yet that I am aware of.

[kintun]

Question, do any of you more experienced OBE'ers recommend the use of audio stimulation? The reason I ask is that I am an individual who has difficulty meditating/relaxing in complete silence. I also have very sensitive hearing and live on a busy street with passing traffic that I can hear (which I find distracting).

I used Monroe's tracks: Journeys out of the body. They worked for me.
Good luck!

[TraineeHuman]

I wanted to post a specific post but I then felt bad as my post might be viewed as disruptive... If asked, I may post in a new, separate thread. Chester
I always enjoy reading your posts! I belive that this thread started to go beyond strictly OBE's long time ago :)

In the opening post I said I consider detachment to be at the core of spirituality. I may not have made it clear enough in that post that I consider OBEs as just one example of detachment; or that what detachment involves is living with the Higher Self. But I felt the Higher Self needed to be described and pointed at a little before people would know how to begin to experience it or what it really was. I guess if you go with your gut instinct in a situation you are probably to some degree listening to your HS, but only to one part of your HS. And of course beyond the HS there is Source, which the HS is less than a pale shadow of.

I guess I vaguely remember astral traveling about prior to my birth. (My parents never told me they lived a few miles outside my official town of birth, which we had moved out of a month after my birth But twenty-five years ago I went there by train. My intuition, or memory, very definitively identified the place, a village or outer suburb called Golden Grove, where my parents had lived. After returning home I phoned my mum and she confirmed that they hadn’t lived in the town proper, but at Golden Grove. When I got out of the train, without asking directions I walked in almost a straight line across the entire length of the town to the hospital where I had been born. The town has five hospitals, but I picked the right one and somehow knew the shortest route to it from the railway station.) The first OB experiences I consciously remember after being born was when I was six, and it was in 6D or 7D. I mention this because to me it was an experience of transcendence, rather than of being out of the body. There was a park at the end of my street. I went there near sunset and stayed for more than an hour. Throughout that time I experienced a very joyful “space” that extended throughout everything and was intelligent and was always there. Then at seven, I also had an experience of being in 6D or 7D. That experience was dominated by several blinding bright “lights” that were intelligent and could do miraculous things, and in fact taught me how to do remote psychic healing. I don't remember consciously astral travelling in 4D until the age of thirteen, and that was a once off until over ten years later. But I did experience Source directly at fourteen and in subsequent years.

To me the “point” of OBEs is that they’re a partial introduction to the HS. They prove that we interact with and part of us exists on a non-physical, “higher” world. That’s why I’ve had no hesitation in talking about anything that seemed relevant to better understanding non-physical realities and particularly the HS. Also, if people have the courage to be interested in astral travel, then they deserve to be exposed to information about higher realities. All my information comes from direct experience, so it’s not theory, but description of reality.

As far as Chester is concerned, I believe he has to take a "leap of faith (in himself)" to seeing the glass as half-full. You can spend literally forever feeling despondent and victimised. It's up to the individual to make an existential choice to stay calm against the rages of their ego. We all have to do it, and keep on doing it. It would be great to have Libico and Chester stuck on an island together for three days, so that each of these very intelligent and aware individuals could see why the other sees the world and life the way they do.

[TraineeHuman]

TraineeHuman, can you explain to me what is the difference between (and meaning of the terms) the Soul and the Oversoul? And how do they relate to the Higher self?

Is the Oversoul God/Source, and the Soul HS?

Some people use the word “Soul” to mean the HS. There are also some who use it to mean the personality in some sense of that term. Certainly the personality, in any sense, isn’t immortal, whereas your HS is (or at the very least it exists primarily beyond time, even though it also interacts with the world of what we call time).

The Oversoul point is a chakra. The HS can only communicate with us through the Oversoul point, and can only enter, or energise anything in, the physical world through that point. I’m not an expert on the terminology, but as far as I know the term Oversoul (or Overmind) is used in slightly different ways in Vedanta. Sometimes it means the same as the HS, sometimes something more, but still not Source (as far as I know).
Also, the consciousness actually centers itself at, and dwells at, the Oversoul point -- even though an aware person will be grounded and in their body at the same time.

I guess at the level of Source all distinctions start to collapse. It’s more important to one day get to the point where you feel directly that your mind is one with the universal mind, at least sometimes, and ditto regarding your life and the universe’s life. The HS opens the gate for you to feel all these things. You really just need to walk in and take them, so to speak. Set aside all your limitations, and surprise, surprise – you may not need to take some of them back, and one day you won’t need to take any of them back.

The “God” that Christians and Jews pray to – or perhaps imagine they are communicating with -- is their HS, except that in probably rare cases there's some direct contact with Source.

I've been fortunate enough to have experienced direct communication and real conversations with the greatest of all the benevolent Gods (and also briefly with Yeshua and with Judas). Despite the despicable paranoid rantings by people who have had no experience of such beings, I would say you start to appreciate what more full integration with Source truly means when you see how such human beings literally live that.

[TraineeHuman]

Thanks for the link! Fascinating video.
Is that "halo" you talked about in post #455, same halo that the video references to ?

I guess there's only one "halo" around the head, so yes.

I don't favor using the word "halo", though. It seems to imply that some people have it and some don't. But the more we can just be a vessel, and in a certain sense "nothing", to our HS, the better the Force can work through us. So it's not really about having any special "halo".


Also, could you please explain the concept of "resensitization" that was mentioned in the video's description?

As far as I understand, it ultimately means learning to feel all your thoughts as they occur. Also, being better aware of your true feelings.

For any further details, you might need to ask Drunvalo, I guess.

[TraineeHuman]

I wasn't sure to mention it before, but I have been twice in something I think was the source, or near it.
The first time I was in a lucid dream and my sister told me she had learned how to reach God and wanted to show him to me. So she moved her arms and suddenly I was flying over an ocean of a liquid silvery material. And I joined a flow of sparks of light (I was one of them) which were traveling really fast in the same direction. At that moment I felt myself bursting with bliss, joy and all kind of emotions altogether. ... It was SO SO intense that I couldn't stand it for more than a few seconds. I woke up filled with joy and comprehension and love for everyone and everything (I know it sounds kind of cliché, but that's how it felt). It was like the confirmation that we are all one.
It was a very special experience, full of deep learning....and difficult to explain. :)

Yes, the light we see in the physical world is only the physical part of something that is divine and totally united, and which may even be divinity or Source itself.

I've considered suggesting that some individuals might like to try "going into the light" as an exercise to get themselves OB. Certainly it's something we do when we die. There's light in 4D, 5D, 6D, ... and so on. And it's different at each level. Just try to find the light, and try to be one with it.

During intensive meditation or at meditation retreats I've found myself deliberately drawing on Light and being very conscious of Light and its circulation through my body (from the infinity of the universe to the oversoul point then down the front of my body to the second chakra, then up the spine and on to the oversoul, then down again to near the centre of the chest). And I'd keep repeating that cycle and a half, over and over. Light is very ... well, light, as in the opposite of heavy or dull or matter-like. Putting attention on it lifts me higher, regardless of how good a space I may have already reached during meditation. But I don't know to what extent this would work for everyone. Why not give the first of these exercises a try, folks? Or even the cycle and a half exercise, though I guess that's more "advanced", even though I've had some amazing results from it.

[soleil]

If we see something or someone different or strange or ugly while in meditation or in OBE...we first define it as good or bad, and act in consequence. Why?
When we walk along the street and watch trees, bugs, cars, people, weather, lights, clouds, etc. We don't judge them. They just ARE. I would dare say that having that kind of view while working with your HS (say OBE or in meditation) can help improve your confidence and let your fears go away. Our universe is so amazing and diverse!
... It's easier when you don't judge it. As if that ugly face was one of somebody you don’t know. Fear comes when you judge it.
:biggrin:

Yep, no initial judgment, and no duality, where possible. I’m greatly in favor of everyone – at whatever “stage” they are at -- finding ways to make non-duality real in their life now, step by small step, in whatever ways they can. Since the HS lives mostly in non-duality, this will bring a person closer to being in touch with their HS, and even closer to Source itself.

Learning to see more things from a nonjudgmental point of view is one of the easiest of these. Just because we see things nonjudgmentally, that sure doesn’t mean we can’t then act on a situation to change it. But first we need to see that situation as it really is. Also, the meditation traditions all teach that the first thing to do is to just pay attention – or to just concentrate on what’s there. You can’t pay attention to what is in a judgmental fashion, because instead of seeing what is you’d be seeing your evaluation of what is (covered with tags such as “like” or “dislike”).

The more strongly you can learn to hold the attitude of nonjudgmentalism steady in you, the more easy and smooth it will be for you to go out and stay OB, that I can guarantee.

It’s rather miraculous – and probably incomprehensible to the mind – that we can move beyond some dualities at all. Eventually there is a point where you feel spread throughout infinity, and that feeling stays with you. And you know for certain that the universe (the multiverse) really is infinite. And that you are somehow inside every self and every manifestation of life here and in every dimension. Some of us have been there.

this is pure synchronicity from what my HS has been telling me recently (re: training the mind to be in non duality). and I've been working on this(above) daily for a while now, its the longest running daily challenge to date. also, i wanted to say thanks for the drunvalo video and thread mention, i will give that a read today.

TH, i wanted to add that i've experienced seeing astrally while laying down twice, since around the time i had mentioned the bright white light when my eyes are closed. what i saw was my pillow and the side of mattress - i had to open my eyes to see what it was i saw because it was odd the first time. :)

[soleil]

Question, do any of you more experienced OBE'ers recommend the use of audio stimulation? The reason I ask is that I am an individual who has difficulty meditating/relaxing in complete silence. I also have very sensitive hearing and live on a busy street with passing traffic that I can hear (which I find distracting).
hey wolfgaze, i have so much noise in my house, that i use it as a concentration tool. i'm not sure if that kind of thing works for you. however, my first OBE actually happened with 3 in a bed, me, my daughter (2.5 yrs) and my fiance on the other side. i just hope all my practice in a noisy and distracting house (read 2.5 yr old) will help me be better at it than those who dont have distractions. i hope to make it work for me. :)

i recommend white noise if you have a fan or anything to help drown out the other noise. whitenoise helps me hear into the other D's sometimes. :)

[Jake]

Question, do any of you more experienced OBE'ers recommend the use of audio stimulation? The reason I ask is that I am an individual who has difficulty meditating/relaxing in complete silence. I also have very sensitive hearing and live on a busy street with passing traffic that I can hear (which I find distracting).

I used Monroe's tracks: Journeys out of the body. They worked for me.
Good luck!

The journeys out of the body cd's are also used with Robert Bruce' Practical Astral Projection Intensive program. Bob Felix was part of the original explorer team with Bob Monroe. (lots of bobs and roberts) anyways, bob Felix helped to fine tune the original 'journeys' cd's, which became known as hemi-sync... These tools can be helpful, especially for audio (rather than visual) learners! Some of the hemi-sync is designed for inducing specific meditative states which can then be used as a platform for OBE!!! Just be sure you look at it as a tool and not a crutch!! Get yer hands on the 'journeys' cd' and fall asleep to the 'condition D' cd!!!!!! ;)

Jake!!!

[wolfgaze]

hey wolfgaze, i have so much noise in my house, that i use it as a concentration tool. i'm not sure if that kind of thing works for you. however, my first OBE actually happened with 3 in a bed, me, my daughter (2.5 yrs) and my fiance on the other side. i just hope all my practice in a noisy and distracting house (read 2.5 yr old) will help me be better at it than those who dont have distractions. i hope to make it work for me. :)

i recommend white noise if you have a fan or anything to help drown out the other noise. whitenoise helps me hear into the other D's sometimes. :)

Thanks very much for your reply teradactyl. : )

Your personal account is inspiring to me because I have a german shepherd who insists on laying on my bed alongside me and I had wondered if his presence my hinder my ability to have an OBE... I'm confident that won't be the case.

I have a track which I have used for meditation in the past that I am really comfortable with. It's a 40 minute audio simulation of the schumann resonance with some isotronic tones mixed in... I'm going to give this OBE business a try again soon...

[TraineeHuman]

Hi Freed Fox,

I am no expert in these matters, but from experience I will share my take on your adventure.

During our conscious state if we amuse ourseleves with "heavy" entertainment it will trickle down/up into our subconscious.
What occupies your mind in the day time? Pay attention. Usually we go about things unaware researching subjects on aliens, ghosts, illuminati, etc...in search of finding or satisfying our curiosity.

I have found that "lightening" my daily intake of info helps and being aware of my emotional states. If you nip the negative thought in the bud it helps.

Side note: i love being in my body. Isn't that the reason why we chose to incarnate on earth?

Anyway, hope this means something to you.

000, I agree with you that it's very important to stay in touch with our body and to constantly watch our emotions and thoughts. I've stressed the importance of getting grounded before any OB experience.

The way I see it, OB experience is something that's mainly just a bridge to contact and communication with the HS. And that everyone should hopefully "graduate" to living fully present to those two consciousnesses (because the HS is, at first and for quite a long time, a separate consciousness). Ultimately it's a matter of uniting the HS and the outer (physical) consciousness into one whole.

This isn't entertainment. This thread is intended for people to read and take action.

The reality is, we all live in a physical world full of limitations. But inside we all know that who we truly are isn't limited. So, we're constantly faced with that tension -- that challenge that no entertainment can assuage --, and, if we're serious, with the need to reconcile it. Isn't that a big part of what human life is ultimately about?

[OOO]

Hi Freed Fox,

I am no expert in these matters, but from experience I will share my take on your adventure.

During our conscious state if we amuse ourseleves with "heavy" entertainment it will trickle down/up into our subconscious.
What occupies your mind in the day time? Pay attention. Usually we go about things unaware researching subjects on aliens, ghosts, illuminati, etc...in search of finding or satisfying our curiosity.

I have found that "lightening" my daily intake of info helps and being aware of my emotional states. If you nip the negative thought in the bud it helps.

Side note: i love being in my body. Isn't that the reason why we chose to incarnate on earth?

Anyway, hope this means something to you.

000, I agree with you that it's very important to stay in touch with our body and to constantly watch our emotions and thoughts. I've stressed the importance of getting grounded before any OB experience.

The way I see it, OB experience is something that's mainly just a bridge to contact and communication with the HS. And that everyone should hopefully "graduate" to living fully present to those two consciousnesses (because the HS is, at first and for quite a long time, a separate consciousness). Ultimately it's a matter of uniting the HS and the outer (physical) consciousness into one whole.

This isn't entertainment. This thread is intended for people to read and take action.

The reality is, we all live in a physical world full of limitations. But inside we all know that who we truly are isn't limited. So, we're constantly faced with that tension -- that challenge that no entertainment can assuage --, and, if we're serious, with the need to reconcile it. Isn't that a big part of what human life is ultimately about?

This thread has approached the subject of OBEs in a very wholistic manner.
From my understanding, all the info in here is not just about getting out of your body, but bringing more into your body of consciousness.

TraineeHuman your inputs have been really helpful.
Thank you
Aleksandra

[TraineeHuman]

During our conscious state if we amuse ourseleves with "heavy" entertainment it will trickle down/up into our subconscious.
What occupies your mind in the day time? Pay attention. Usually we go about things unaware researching subjects on aliens, ghosts, illuminati, etc...in search of finding or satisfying our curiosity.

I have found that "lightening" my daily intake of info helps and being aware of my emotional states. If you nip the negative thought in the bud it helps.

Side note: i love being in my body. Isn't that the reason why we chose to incarnate on earth?

Anyway, hope this means something to you.


000, I agree with you that it's very important to stay in touch with our body and to constantly watch our emotions and thoughts. I've stressed the importance of getting grounded before any OB experience.

The way I see it, OB experience is something that's mainly just a bridge to contact and communication with the HS. And that everyone should hopefully "graduate" to living fully present to those two consciousnesses (because the HS is, at first and for quite a long time, a separate consciousness). Ultimately it's a matter of uniting the HS and the outer (physical) consciousness into one whole.

This isn't entertainment. This thread is intended for people to read and take action.

The reality is, we all live in a physical world full of limitations. But inside we all know that who we truly are isn't limited. So, we're constantly faced with that tension -- that challenge that no entertainment can assuage --, and, if we're serious, with the need to reconcile it. Isn't that a big part of what human life is ultimately about?


This thread has approached the subject of OBEs in a very wholistic manner.
From my understanding, all the info in here is not just about getting out of your body, but bringing more into your body of consciousness.
...
Thank you
Aleksandra

It needs to be wholistic because your Higher Self is the diamond worth billions that’s lying buried in your own back yard. And you need to put all your strongest energies and all your will and invest everything into finding it. The question is, just how much are you willing to give to finding something that’s much more important than absolutely everything else? Are you going to give enough?

[Jake]

This isn't entertainment. This thread is intended for people to read and take action.



EXACTLY!!! A thousand pounds of 'facts' will never stand up to an ounce of 'inspiration'. There is a lot of material here for the beginner and the experienced, alike,,, my hope is that we all stay positive and hold a perspective that will inspire ANY reader to endeavor to beging to understand themselves through embracing their personal experiences. I have a chapter in my book dedicated to this exact subject... OBE and your Higher Self... Part of the reason that this phenomenon can't be studied with strict scientific methodology is because a connection is established with ones higher self, and the nature of the study changes.

We are pushing through!!!

When I firts came to Avalon, there was hardly anyone discussing Astral Projection or OBE,,,,, hahahahahahah

Look how things have changed,,,, with only a bit of inspiration, and a group of the most joyful people on earth,,,, Avalonians.

Keep up the good work,,,

Jake.

[TraineeHuman]

Here’s more about how to listen to your HS. (And my apologies to Jake. I haven't read the chapter on the HS in his book, but I'll do so soon.)

In doing the exercise from post #24, you learnt (if you didn’t already know), or you practiced, how to make the screen of your mind empty or blank for 30 seconds. I suggest you did this by continually choosing not to give any thoughts your support, when they tried to come up.

(I hope you didn’t do it the way I see so many regular so-called “meditators” use force to “kill off” all thoughts during their meditation. That’s kind of nuking everything, leaving only a wasteland of dullness behind. The purpose of meditation is not to turn you into a lamp post. No, the soft but steady touch is what is needed.)

Now I’m giving you a simple exercise for strengthening your ability to (begin to) experience the presence of your HS. This exercise is the same as the one in post #24 … LOL…, but with the following changes.

At the beginning you don’t ask any question. Then, after 30 seconds or so of blank screen, put your attention on the silence. Simply be willing for the blankness to be replaced by something less passive but still non-verbal and non-pictorial.

The blankness or emptiness will drop off, but you need to practice this exercise at least until you continue to clearly and very definitely “feel” the silence after the blankness has dropped off.

That “silence” or stillness is your HS. (But later you will be able to “hear” its communications to you.)

It’s not a passive silence. Also, that silence contains a subtle but strong non-physical “energy”, a presence, a feeling that everything is OK.

I’d like some of you readers to tell me more.

But my one caution is that when that stillness becomes strong in you, initially and for maybe quite a few years there will be huge resistance from your ego, from your outer self. That resistance will rear its head every time your HS really descends into your physical body. That’s not likely to happen yet for a long time, unless you're already at that point. But your ego will even resist and envy the fact that you are learning to communicate with another, even now, even if you're a total beginner. The biggest gun your ego usually has is to make you feel weak – maybe disinterested, or lacking in confidence, or lazy, or chronically tired. I had to warn you, so now you’ve been warned, my friends. Yes, there is certainly light at the end of that tunnel.

[TraineeHuman]

We all need to learn to get in touch with our intuition. As I understand it, listening to our intuition usually comes down to listening to some voice usually quite deep inside us. I've already gone on about how we listen to false voices inside us, coming from family members who influenced us in our childhood , and so on.

But once you learn to "feel" or "hear" the very alive stillness or silence that is your HS, you become much better at distinguishing the "voice" of that stillness from all the other voices.