The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs [Archive] - Page 5

TraineeHuman

26th June 2013, 13:37

To get out of the prison you are in, you need to enhance and become more aware of ways to know that you are in a prison. To do that, you need to become aware of different ways you have of knowing -- ways quite different from the education system taught you.

Yes...and the biggest thing to realise is that the 'prison' we think we are in is a self created one. But lets try to put this in a more acceptable way...because we hate to see ourselves as been the creator of our own suffering.

All forms of suffering, hardship and misunderstanding are merely our lack of knowledge of the facts of existence. We try to study or learn the truths of higher consciousness but fail to first master the levels which are presently causing our despair. There is an esoteric axiom which states that we cannot know the higher until we have mastered the current state...because the higher state always requires the current one to be known first, It is like school...if we cannot count how are we going to fair at calculus?

That’s almost exactly what I was going to say at the beginning of my next post, Ray.

Serendipitously, in keeping with your new signature, the next thing I was going to mention after that was that to get out of that self-created prison one thing everyone needs to do is throw out many of the beliefs they may have about “subjectivity”. At least throw them out for now. (By the way, the scientific method demands that in science any theory has to be falsifiable. But a theory can only ever be falsifiable if it’s false. Science uses those theories which haven’t been falsified as yet – but freely admits they must all be false. So much for “scientific objectivity”!)

In this post I’d like to begin, or continue, an exploration with you all of the different ways of knowing you have but mostly don’t use. As Ray emphasizes, though, you do need to experience these things. There’s no shortcut as far as that’s concerned. That’s why I’m providing you with simple exercises.

As you’re exploring the “at one with” exercise, you’ll inevitably notice that your “environment” starts looking a little different. It’s not that it’s changed. Rather, what you’ll be seeing is a reflection “out there” of the ways of knowing you’ll be using “in here”. Again, as Ray says in the previous post, in a slightly different way.

And if you can simply learn to consciously use different ways of knowing, you’ll discover that “the unique you” is much more huge than your previous ways of knowing had suggested. Indeed, to jump a long way ahead, you’ll eventually discover that a physical body, or any kind of body, is illusory, and is an unnecessary prison. I’ve thrown that last sentence in because I guess it has to do with the essence of why people are interested in OBEs in the first place.

I’ve looked again at teradactyl’s post #972, and it does sound like she’s not only experienced some success at going briefly “at one” with things. Not only that, but it’s possible she managed to jump straight away to the next step. I had expected I would need to ask people to make whatever they “see” or experience while being at one clearer, and then clearer still. Maybe teradactyl did reach significant clarity – possibly as beginner’s luck? Because the remarkable thing is, once you’re seeing very, very clearly, you must also be quite detached. That’s at the very same time as you’re being – well, immersed!
Anyway, here’s part of what teradactyl said:

the other day i went to the mall with my daughter and i was just 'present' and observing. no tantrums, and i felt as though i was able to side step any wary characters and areas without much of a second thought

That does indeed sound like detachment to me.

“Normally”, we consider getting fully immersed and involved with something or someone as a loss of any broader perspective. Indeed, the “normal” individual soon becomes attached to it or them. We “get lost” in such absorption, or even “lose our selves” or “lose our mind / good sense”.

Similarly, “normally” people think of a “detached” person as someone who is aloof for some reason, and not playing the game, not “with it”.

That’s not the detachment I’m talking about, and have done in this thread. The type of detachment I mean is exemplified by C S Lewis’s saying – which echoes what the Zen Buddhists say – that “true love detaches one greatly”.

I hope this makes it clear why I believe my exercise of being “at one” can enable you to eventually reach the most extraordinary depths of awareness and knowing. I got the exercise just by carefully and accurately observing what I do myself. That doesn’t mean it’s not a truly great exercise, I'd like to believe.

soleil

26th June 2013, 13:54

thanks for the mention TH. that day in particular i put a garnet (just cuz its my birth stone) in my pocket with the intention for it to help me be balanced and centered and to ward off negativity. i do not mean this was hocus pocus, it was only my intention for how i wanted to experience my day. i wanted a challenge to my self meditation practice (being at one), and the mall was the place. it was a nice practice for me.

[edit]
the new key for me is, not holding tight to any outcome. and my new practice is going out in life, and experiencing everything as it is for the first time (practices i am doing/coming up with have been offered by TH and also parts from the pilot book).
and to be honest, i was telling my fiance about turning off autopilot and doing everything for the first time, this morning. i mentioned how hard it is in actuality because there is so many "auto pilot" programs running that have to be turned off. sometimes i dont expect a "program" to pop up, and i find myself saying something or feeling an emotion automatically, but thats not the emotion i want to feel or a habit that i dont want to keep doing.
this is my new constant practice, till i am not on autopilot anymore.

Ron Mauer Sr

26th June 2013, 15:03

TraineeHuman

26th June 2013, 15:22

Freed Fox

26th June 2013, 18:16

soleil

26th June 2013, 18:19

And if you can simply learn to consciously use different ways of knowing, you’ll discover that “the unique you” is much more huge than your previous ways of knowing had suggested. Indeed, to jump a long way ahead, you’ll eventually discover that a physical body, or any kind of body, is illusory, and is an unnecessary prison. I’ve thrown that last sentence in because I guess it has to do with the essence of why people are interested in OBEs in the first place.

My interest in OBEs is simply to gain conscious access to my HS. If I connect with that wise and loving creative intelligence, then I can play this game, this "unnecessary prison", the absolute best way that I can. After I gain access, then it may be fun exploring elsewhere by OBE. Going OBE just to escape prison, or just into a different adventure, could lead one into a place without access to the tools needed to maintain freedom, well being and joy.

The most precious scenario I can imagine, is that I will eventually be able to visit and interact with anyone, any animal, any place that I have ever loved, and on my command, come and go as I please.
hi ron, i am not an obe pro or anything. but i cant help but think that if the circumstances are fine (you can be alone in a quiet room) you should be able to OBE via direct or indirect. with your desire, you should be able to do it. and get there. do you attempt to obe regularily?
another suggestion is, robert bruce has a walkthrough method/book called master astral projection in 90 days. im sure you can learn to build up your confidence to OBE by doing the methods, if you stick to it.
the key is sticking to it. occams razer. keep things simple.

exerpt from 'you forever'
LESSON NINE
In the last lesson we dealt in the concluding stages with thought. We
said “thought is where you want it to be.” That is a formula which really
can assist us to get out of the body, to do astral travelling. Let us repeat
it.
Thought is where you want it to be. Outside of you, if you want it so.
Let us have a little practice. Here again, you will need to be where you
are quite alone, where there are no distractions. You are going to try to get yourself out of your body.
You must be alone, you must be relaxed, and we suggest that for ease you lie down, preferably upon a bed. Make
sure that no one can intrude and ruin your experiment. When you are
settled, breathing slowly, thinking of this experiment, concentrate on a
point six feet in front of you, close your eyes, concentrate, WILL
yourself to think that you — the real you, the astral you — watches your
body from some six feet away. Think! Practice! Make yourself
concentrate. Then, with practice, you will suddenly experience a slight,
almost electric shock, and you will see your body lying with eyes closed
some six feet away.

i think this has been as simple as it gets. and considering you are saying you need this before that. then keep at it.

for me, my timing is so bad and busy. i cant even do raduga's method let alone this method. i wish you the best luck, and cant wait to hear some OBE success'. we're so many pages in and id quite also like to hear some obe success experiences here and there too. :)

TraineeHuman

27th June 2013, 02:15

.........So, tell me what you're noticing when you're practicing being "at-one" with specific things or people or whatever. You need to experience it for yourselves. Even if you seem to be experiencing nothing, tell us about your failure......

Oh, those are quite intriguing moments: .... I feel limitless, no boundaries whatsoever, heart is jumping, multi-dimensional warmth,............... doesn't happen very often, but I re-member (what a word!) quite a few of those moments and charish them....wishing for more :dance3::dance3::dance3:

Reinhard, those wonderful experiences you have had on rare occasions are undoubtedly glimpses of Source, or experience of Source. Such experience involves one of the four ways of knowing that I haven’t said anything about yet. This is the knowing one has when one experiences total identity with everything, and all at the same time. I usually experience it briefly or longer when I meditate. I like to call it the Void. It has two “sides”. One is a profound emptiness that paradoxically is in everything and even contains everything. The other “side” is profound bliss. One normally experiences one “side” or the other at a time. As I’ve been saying, without daily access at least very briefly to that experience, a person is kind of stuck with suffering. But people do get to experiencing the Void regularly, though no doubt only in a future lifetime for many, unfortunately.

This is connected to what I have said about being “at one”. Let me first clarify emphatically that I have asked everyone that’s willing and serious to practice being “at one” during their everyday life, rather than during meditation. It’s also true, however, that proper meditation is exactly the same thing as being at one with your Higher Mind. But the primary practice is during everyday life.

When you practice “at one” experiencing of another person, for instance, you’ll find you are experiencing their emotions and thoughts and the sensations in their body, in some general kind of way, mostly. When you practice being “at one” with something inanimate in your daily life, you’ll start to “just know” details about it without anyone having to tell you. I once had a spiritual teacher who was quite clairvoyant who would constantly irritate me by insisting I knew all sorts of stuff that I believed I didn’t. In some way, though, I’m sure in retrospect he could see that I could capably use the “at one” “spectacles” to get the answers.

The way the “at one” practice works in daily life, though, is that it can only work because you’re actually using the first way of knowing, but subconsciously. But why this exercise will gradually bring you closer and closer to Source is that it does require you to keep experiencing the first way subconsciously, until one day that will break through the surface.

My experience with meditation schools/systems/etc is that they eventually teach you to access wonderful things during meditation, but they never have a decent answer to how one can carry over something of those things from the meditation session into daily life. This exercise is such an answer. But it needs not to be practiced at work, at home with the family, and so on.

animovado

27th June 2013, 11:46

Hi TH and hi to every contributor to this beautiful thread, that accompanies my life during the last weeks and helps me to get a little more back on track.
Thank you!

My experience with meditation schools/systems/etc is that they eventually teach you to access wonderful things during meditation, but they never have a decent answer to how one can carry over something of those things from the meditation session into daily life. This exercise is such an answer. But it needs not to be practiced at work, at home with the family, and so on.

I think i use the "at one" practice more or less in my daily life, but i widened the focus of the "at one" with this or that, more to the broader picture of "how i am now". This includes moments of nearness to people, animals and plants and also to my thoughts, feelings and bodily sensations.

The "prison" could be a good description for the "kingdom of the ego", where
i am my own jail guard and prisoner at the same time.
To feel better in this small and narrow cell it's maybe not a bad idea to throw some bulky waste out to create "new space". (All the trinkets i'm still carrying and i've been in this prison for..)

That creates the impression that i'm feeling more at home instead of being in a prison.
And i can use the newly acquired space for exercises like being "at one".

Jake

27th June 2013, 14:16

the essence of why people are interested in OBEs in the first place.

This topic could be quite important. Why ARE folks interested in OBE? I spent half my life trying to stop it from happening!! I didn't want anything to do with it for many years! They still kept coming.. Powerful energy body events that held me paralyzed and vibrating/gagging,, There were always menacing 'shadow' creatures with red glowing eyes! The fear was indescribable. It would leave me stuttering for weeks. I would go MONTHS without knowing if I was dreaming or not. (sitting here now, I cannot tell!!) I am certain that THAT is not why folks are interested in OBE!!

Knowing that you are more than your physical human body, brings with it a great awakening. Yet, the great awakening will occur NO MATTER OF OBE!!! So why ARE folks so interested in OBE. So called 'experts' will tell you that it is just a dream. (how do you describe to someone who does not see color, what COLOR is???)

Here is my best answer. The OBE leads to powerful, personal awareness, that does not require religion, government, money, permission, education, etc.... It is a vast potential that is out there, waiting to be embraced!! It is the one potential that will break the chains of the 'human belief system filters', and will unshackle us from the current 'predicament' on our wee planet. One can do this with a SINGLE OBE. It will be a question of wether or not folks have the courage to EMBRACE what is happening to them. I certainly did NOT, at first. I was dragged into this, kicking and screaming.

This is a REAL phenomenon!!! I think folks (who have not yet remembered an OBE) can sense that this is a real phenomenon. Keep at it!! We are changing the world!!!

Jake.

TraineeHuman

28th June 2013, 11:21

I think i use the "at one" practice more or less in my daily life, but i widened the focus of the "at one" with this or that, more to the broader picture of "how i am now". This includes moments of nearness to people, animals and plants and also to my thoughts, feelings and bodily sensations.

The "prison" could be a good description for the "kingdom of the ego", where
i am my own jail guard and prisoner at the same time.
To feel better in this small and narrow cell it's maybe not a bad idea to throw some bulky waste out to create "new space". (All the trinkets i'm still carrying and i've been in this prison for..)

That creates the impression that i'm feeling more at home instead of being in a prison.
And i can use the newly acquired space for exercises like being "at one".

Yes, animovado! It helps to practice being “near to”, or “at one with”, people, Nature, things, everything – in whatever ways make sense to you. A broader sense is totally fine by me.

Let me explain. A quite significant part of the dumbing-down we have been subjected to involves superficialty, making our world and ourselves superficial. Movie stars, models, sports stars, and all sorts of other strange things are popularly considered very important. Our society’s conditioning includes an enormous taboo against seeing or knowing things or people from the inside.

If, for example, we manage to truly know/experience a person from the inside, we directly experience or see their side of it all, their admittedly partial view, as more or less as valid as our own partial view, or certainly our ego’s.

I’ve suggested practicing some level of “at one” experience with people and things as one way of overcoming that enormous problem of superficialty permeating our entire society. That’s doing something direct. I don’t claim it’s the only solution by any means.

There are many, many varieties of ways you can be “at one” with a person. Psychic healing is just one of these. Interestingly, although physical diseases are supposedly physical, in my experience and in that of all psychic healers, as far as I know, the healing that occurs is over 99% psychological – emotional and mental. I first discovered I had a talent for healing when I was seven. My mother suffered a ruptured appendix for over three hours before getting to hospital, plus she was extremely allergic to the penicillin she was having pumped into her. Worse still, she had deliberately attempted to die, and was consequently in need of being healed of suicidal depression. I somehow found a way to “journey inside” her, and as a result somehow seemed to summon huge quantities of dazzling light. She was back working full-time within a week, and the family physician said it was the biggest miracle he had seen in his twenty-something years of practice.

As far as I know, whenever I do a psychic healing a significant part of my awareness in an OB state. I believe that’s both at the etheric level (3D) and the ego-complex level (probably upper 5D). So, going “inside” can often – and I would say often does -- involve experiencing a significant amount of “scenes” from OB realms. However, I know I can do it while still retaining a substantial degree of physical, awake body consciousness – while performing a healing, and otherwise as well.

Finefeather

28th June 2013, 15:24

Of course, Ron, once one gets to the point of knowing through experience that physical reality is some type of illusion, then it loses any "prison" significance whatsoever. In such a state of knowing, playing the physical game can be rather like watching a movie, where it's fun to be really frightened, say, as a fun activity to do.
Hi TH and All
Are you suggesting here that the physical 3D world is an illusion?
You say..."physical reality is some type of illusion"...now this in itself is contradictory...but to suggest that the 3D world is an illusion is in itself an illusion...or rather a gross misunderstanding of the facts of consciousness as well as matter. You speak of physical reality but what you are saying is that it really is physical illusion.
I would suggest we ask someone who has just run into a wall, how much of an illusion it was :)

This concept, which originates from Indian philosophy, and is now been 'sold' as fact, by the many gurus around the Western world, who copied it from the Indians is nothing more than ignorance of the dimensions of the cosmos...and the constitution of the Beings who inhabit it.

The physical world is as real as any other of the 49 levels in our cosmos...they are each just very different in terms of form and consciousness.
The reason why most cannot understand this is simply because of the source of the information they have chosen to 'enlighten' themselves with.
Just because we have had an OBE or some other subjective experience does not prove that physical is illusion...it should prove to us that physical is another dimension...with it's own qualities...which we are experiencing objectively at this point in our evolution.

The only reason why I do not recommend OBE at an early stage of development is because the casual OB experience is usually a journey into confusion.
There is not one human on this planet who can understand the OB world unless, or until, you are guided and trained by your Augoeides...And, this will only happen when each is ready for such...until then OBs are nothing more than a journey into subjectivity. Those who have had previous life experience, under correct circumstances, will also understand higher dimensions to the point which they have reached up to the present.

It is an illusion if anyone thinks they are some highly evolved Being here on earth...if they were...they would know it a long time ago.

The other point I would like to make is that IMO the entire story about our Higher Self or Higher Mind...as is been misunderstood by most here...is the biggest stumbling block of the failure to come to grips with how we should approach life.

But this is only my opinion and it is up to each to examine what each gets out of any story they may read or may be told...the only truth is that objectivity is the only way we can grow...there is no other way...everything else is temporary subjectivity and thus illusion.

Because we cannot understand the matter aspect of life...which is present in all the 49 dimensions...we think that the physical world is so different. But this is ONLY because we do not understand the higher dimensions...objectively...yet. Once we do...and this can take many many incarnations we will have a completely different understanding of what reality is...because reality is one thing only...and nothing else...it is objective consciousness. Until we are trained to be objectively conscious in higher dimensions we will always have the impression that the physical world is an illusion...simply because our emotional and or our mental faculties are not yet fully developed.

We are not nearly ready to arrange the celebration party, which we so ignorantly think we are so close to. We are babies compared to some who have attained higher consciousness. The average human is still largely driven by animal instincts and when we think we are more advanced...we simply have no idea of how far we are still from Causal Consciousness...let alone Cosmic Consciousness...do you at this point even know who you really are?...when you do...you will be getting closer.

Take care and my love
Ray

Finefeather

28th June 2013, 19:03

I was asked a question about my post above by PM and decided to include my answer her as well...for what it is wearth.

Can you elaborate on that, what do you mean exactly with the misunderstanding regarding the Higher Self/Mind?
There is actually no such thing as the 'Higher Self'. There is only the Self...the true Being which is you or me or whoever. The very term 'the Higher Self' implies that we are a Being who has somehow attained a higher consciousness and has for some unknown reason sent this ignorant part of it into a lower physical world. If this 'Higher Self' was so 'Higher' then what is it doing in an unevolved world? This concept fails to address evolution of consciousness and is an emotional construct to make us feel as if we are more than we really are...at this point in our evolution. It is driven by the ego...and by ignorance of the nature of life. This is something that I cannot easily convince anyone of because it is a phase which we all will go through as we get to grips with our emotional and mental consciousness. Our quest is to refine our incarnating envelopes so that we can achieve higher consciousness. The thing that people call the 'Higher Self' is simply our memory bank of all our past experiences...we are exactly what we are now...on this physical plane...there is no 'SuperMe' yet...that is what we will become...and that is our destiny...exciting and motivating.
This is an extreme subject ONLY because we have made it so difficult ourselves...because we just cannot believe that life is simpler than we think it is.

In addition I should have also mentioned that the Self is what we are trying to discover and the irony of it is that the Self is right inside us...waiting to be discovered or recognized...It is not a separate super Being. This part of us as an individual Self, the core of our Being is dormant in the Causal Consciousness...and this is the 'surprise' we will get one day when we realize that what we have been looking for all this time was really just 'you'...right inside all this time. .and here we have been hunting high and low to find ourselves :)

Only when we have reached this level of consciousness where we know that we are out true Self can we move on into higher kingdoms like the Planetary Kingdom and higher.

Take care and my love
Ray

Shamz

29th June 2013, 02:52

TraineeHuman

29th June 2013, 02:54

Ray, I take it you haven’t read some of my earliest posts in this thread. I believe I’ve made it very clear indeed from the beginning that I have a very different take on astral travel than someone like Jake or teradactyl. And that for me any exercises in learning astral travel are in my opinion of no value at all except as a kind of warmup to “higher” OB experience, i.e. what I’d describe as OB experience that doesn’t involve or need anything that could be called a “higher body”. So I probably agree with you that “subjective” astral travel attempts or experiences may often be harmful or misleading or whatever.

You may also have noticed that I’ve long ago stopped entering any discussion on little astral travel techniques and self-hypnosis techniques and exercises, because I do continue to consider them so valueless. And to me they now seem even more valueless, after carefully reflecting about them over the last months. It continues to be surprising and embarrassing to me that teradatyl and Jake continue to post about such things here. I don’t know why they don’t post such material in a thread such as The Secret Of The Soul instead – which I’d certainly prefer.

I believe I’ve also made it very clear indeed that I consider the experience of proper meditation and phenomena related to it as the most important and the central type of OB experience and phenomena. I’m open to changing my mind on almost anything, but I certainly still continue to hold that view.

I’m happy to comment on people’s dreams, because they come from the deeper Self OB.

On the other hand, I doubt I would agree with your claim that “discussion of the Higher Mind is harmful”. I do agree with most of what you say in post #1013. Yes, it’s true all there is ultimately is the true Self. But as you say yourself, at present most people haven’t realised that. But I certainly don’t agree that for such people all talk of a Higher Mind is misleading and counterproductive.

Why don’t I agree? Actually, the ego is even more an illusion than the Higher Mind.

I agree with you that strictly speaking the Higher Mind is an illusion, for those who are able to reach a certain point. But even while you insist that the Higher Mind is an illusion you find it necessary in the process to make many references to the ego. Fine, then. But I suggest you should be consistent, and never mention or hint at the ego, or any equivalent of it, ever again! Please be consistent.

As far as I can see, people need some kind of notion of a Higher Mind as a type of bridge to understanding the Self. It’s very easy, and in my opinion doesn’t take much skill or insight, to criticize the whole notion of the Higher Mind as being an illusion. That insight doesn’t impress me. But I don’t see any evidence at all so far that you’ve been able to create any better way of explaining the Self to people in a workable way. If you’re able to do that, then I believe you should certainly write a book, and talk to Eckhart Tolle’s publisher. Until I see it, I’ll continue to consider that it’s thousands of times easier to criticize than it is to create something that’s useful. And all pontifications that aren’t backed up by argument and evidence, to me are, to put it mildly, not worth taking seriously at all, regardless of who they may come from.

Also, personally in this thread I’m not interested in debating most philosophical questions. I did start a thread where I tried to elicit some sensible discussion of such topics in the Spirituality thread “What does it mean for you to free yourself of illusions?” Unfortunately, most of the posts weren’t as fertile as I’d hoped.

I first experienced the first three levels of Source in mid-adolescence. My interest in philosophy and psychology only arose out of attempting to express what I had directly experienced. I don’t apologise for my claim to be largely free of suffering. I started this thread with the purpose of doing my best to bring some others closer to what I have learned through direct experience, with the sole aim of the lessening of their suffering. Actually, I discovered that the Buddha was wrong in claiming that the very nature of existing in the physical world is suffering. I don’t base what I say in this thread on anything, ultimately, than my own experience.

Unfortunately you do seem to have some fixed opinions regarding subjectivity and objectivity. (Though I probably agree with some if not most of the things you say about what you call “subjectivism”.) I happen to have a postgraduate degree and a little lecturing experience in philosophy. Philosophers have unanimously agreed since Descartes’ day (and also centuries ago in ancient China and India) that the only things that are certain are what are known as “inter-subjective”. Something is inter-subjective if it’s subjective and also everyone has the same subjective experience of it. For example, any measurement is inter-subjective, as is the statement: “I can’t doubt my own existence.” I assume you have a belief that anything that’s certain is “objective”, but I’m afraid that’s a false belief.

Unfortunately I’m committed to working all weekend and more than forty hours this week, so I don’t have the time, for at several days, to address your remarks in further detail than this, Ray. Thank you for all your very deep insights, though. This is in any case a discussion forum, so there’s no requirement that everyone should agree on anything.

Shamz

29th June 2013, 04:09

:cool:
Ray, I take it you haven’t read some of my earliest posts in this thread. I believe I’ve made it very clear indeed from the beginning that I have a very different take on astral travel than someone like Jake or teradactyl. And that for me any exercises in learning astral travel are in my opinion of no value at all except as a kind of warmup to “higher” OB experience, i.e. what I’d describe as OB experience that doesn’t involve or need anything that could be called a “higher body”. So I probably agree with you that “subjective” astral travel attempts or experiences may often be harmful or misleading or whatever.

You may also have noticed that I’ve long ago stopped entering any discussion on little astral travel techniques and self-hypnosis techniques and exercises, because I do continue to consider them so valueless. And to me they now seem even more valueless, after carefully reflecting about them over the last months. It continues to be surprising and embarrassing to me that teradatyl and Jake continue to post about such things here. I don’t know why they don’t post such material in a thread such as The Secret Of The Soul instead – which I’d certainly prefer.

I believe I’ve also made it very clear indeed that I consider the experience of proper meditation and phenomena related to it as the most important and the central type of OB experience and phenomena. I’m open to changing my mind on almost anything, but I certainly still continue to hold that view.

I’m happy to comment on people’s dreams, because they come from the deeper Self OB.

On the other hand, I doubt I would agree with your claim that “discussion of the Higher Mind is harmful”. I do agree with most of what you say in post #1013. Yes, it’s true all there is ultimately is the true Self. But as you say yourself, at present most people haven’t realised that. But I certainly don’t agree that for such people all talk of a Higher Mind is misleading and counterproductive.

Why don’t I agree? Actually, the ego is even more an illusion than the Higher Mind.

I agree with you that strictly speaking the Higher Mind is an illusion, for those who are able to reach a certain point. But even while you insist that the Higher Mind is an illusion you find it necessary in the process to make many references to the ego. Fine, then. But I suggest you should be consistent, and never mention or hint at the ego, or any equivalent of it, ever again! Please be consistent.

As far as I can see, people need some kind of notion of a Higher Mind as a type of bridge to understanding the Self. It’s very easy, and in my opinion doesn’t take much skill or insight, to criticize the whole notion of the Higher Mind as being an illusion. That insight doesn’t impress me. But I don’t see any evidence at all so far that you’ve been able to create any better way of explaining the Self to people in a workable way. If you’re able to do that, then I believe you should certainly write a book, and talk to Eckhart Tolle’s publisher. Until I see it, I’ll continue to consider that it’s thousands of times easier to criticize than it is to create something that’s useful. And all pontifications that aren’t backed up by argument and evidence, to me are, to put it mildly, not worth taking seriously at all, regardless of who they may come from.

Also, personally in this thread I’m not interested in debating most philosophical questions. I did start a thread where I tried to elicit some sensible discussion of such topics in the Spirituality thread “What does it mean for you to free yourself of illusions?” Unfortunately, most of the posts weren’t as fertile as I’d hoped.

I first experienced the first three levels of Source in mid-adolescence. My interest in philosophy and psychology only arose out of attempting to express what I had directly experienced. I don’t apologise for my claim to be largely free of suffering. I started this thread with the purpose of doing my best to bring some others closer to what I have learned through direct experience, with the sole aim of the lessening of their suffering. Actually, I discovered that the Buddha was wrong in claiming that the very nature of existing in the physical world is suffering. I don’t base what I say in this thread on anything, ultimately, than my own experience.

Unfortunately you do seem to have some fixed opinions regarding subjectivity and objectivity. (Though I probably agree with some if not most of the things you say about what you call “subjectivism”.) I happen to have a postgraduate degree and a little lecturing experience in philosophy. Philosophers have unanimously agreed since Descartes’ day (and also centuries ago in ancient China and India) that the only things that are certain are what are known as “inter-subjective”. Something is inter-subjective if it’s subjective and also everyone has the same subjective experience of it. For example, any measurement is inter-subjective, as is the statement: “I can’t doubt my own existence.” I assume you have a belief that anything that’s certain is “objective”, but I’m afraid that’s a false belief.

Unfortunately I’m committed to working all weekend and more than forty hours this week, so I don’t have the time, for at several days, to address your remarks in further detail than this, Ray. Thank you for all your very deep insights, though. This is in any case a discussion forum, so there’s no requirement that everyone should agree on anything.

Love

Freed Fox

29th June 2013, 04:43

Interesting...

What I'm basically getting from this is; it isn't so much that the 'higher mind' or 'Higher Self' is *itself* an illusion, but rather the notion of *separation* from it is. Thus to those with conscious connection to it (or perhaps more accurately, cognition/realization of its essence), it seems redundant or inaccurate to refer to it in such a way that implies any degree of separation. I might point out; to those who have been riding bicycles for so long and so regularly that it has become second nature to them, it is easy to forget how hard it was to learn how initially, all those years ago.

I hope you'll forgive a quick aside from me on the topic of illusion, TH, seeing as there is a separate thread for that (as you've just pointed out). It is a subject which I have contemplated at great length and will undoubtedly continue to do so because I am far from making a substantial or concrete conclusion as to what it would mean to me to 'free myself of all illusions' (and thus answering the query you elsewhere put forth).

I believe that when many consider the idea of an illusion, they tend to think about things such as card tricks, or when a magician 'saws his assistant in half'. That is certainly a type of illusion, one of a visual nature. Then others may think of the cognitive or psychological illusion, which is arguably what placebos demonstrate to us... when a disease is 'cured' by a simple sugar pill. At that level, illusion seems even more powerful, but here's the catch: it is still observable from outside the illusion itself.

The magician knows his sleight of hand. The doctor knows what she prescribed.

I think this is, at least in part, the motivation behind pursuing OBEs. It seems to be the only way to get backstage and observe the magician's secrets, or to sneak a peek at the doctor's medical notes (if you'll forgive the mixing of metaphors). The only way - or so it would seem - outside of death itself to validate one's existence as more than the body and view this existence with an objectivity which is arguably impossible while one is confined to the body.

Now, of course, this is where meditation comes into the picture for me. As I cannot willingly initiate conscious OBEs, it is the tool to which I resort for this broader, elevated perspective (elevated above my own average level of consciousness, that is; not elevated above others!).

Here's where it gets tricky for me... I find it exceedingly difficult to gauge myself in regards to where I am along this path. Although I have certainly experienced benefits from my practice, I know it is limited and not as regularly performed as might be ideal. Furthermore, although some here and elsewhere in written works are quite eloquent in conveying their metaphysical dealings, they are by their nature incredibly difficult to describe and condense into words. Alas, the inadequacy of linguistics...

What need is there to gauge myself? Well, I certainly have no need to compare myself to others...that would be an egoistic motive. Rather, it is in assessing the possibility of yet another type of illusion, a type which is so far beyond the illusions I mentioned above that it becomes a feat of mental gymnastics to even consider. I speak not of visual, perceptive, cognitive, or psychological illusion, but existential illusion.

Existential illusion would encompass all the other types, and then some. It would be inter-subjective. And, perhaps most importantly, it would not be readily observable from any sort of objective, elevated, or 'outside' perspective. Unless (of course) one dies, or goes out-of-body. Even then, some who subscribe to the theories of a collective illusion (sometimes referred to as 'the Matrix') go further to say that even in death we do not escape it. I won't go down that road. Suffice to say, modern science cannot even disprove such a notion. It seems that for all intents and purposes, we 'construct' reality through the filters of our perceptive organs, and much of experiential reality can (to them) be reduced to electrical activity through the neural networks. If it weren't for 'inter-subjectivity', nothing would be certain about reality at all... but if what we consider to be 'reality' is really a collective and shared illusion, how would one ever hope to prove or disprove such a notion?

I am not myself a reductionist when it comes to reality or the nature of existence, but I would be hard pressed to tell you with any certainty what I am or what all of this really is. Does that make me ignorant, or open minded?

Lord... I promised a 'quick aside' and ended up with a short essay. My apologies... Trainee, feel free to steer the ship back on course! :p

Jake

29th June 2013, 06:11

It continues to be surprising and embarrassing to me that teradatyl and Jake continue to post about such things here.

I am shocked that you have invited me to NOT post... Good luck in all that you do!!!

Kraut

29th June 2013, 07:08

Please, let's all be calm. We're all on the same path and should be supportive of each other despite differences of views and opinion. I'm sure there is no bad intent in anything said here, so let's keep a cool head. :grouphug:

jiminii

29th June 2013, 07:16

we have an auditors code in Scientology
we are not allowed to evaluate or invalidate people
they must make their own evaluations and realizations by themself
this also works in life .... why do you not invalidate or evaluate someone or their think?
because it is a ARC break .. affinity reality and communication .. there will be a break in one or more of them
and what is the result ... ???? NO COMMUNICATION or BAD communication
I am sure everyone wants others to see their point of view .. but if you ARC break them in the conversation you do the opposite of what you wanted to achieve. you don't bring understand .. you break the affinity or reality or the communication and you get as a result .. no one wants to listen to you or even look at your information ....

so the art of communication is to be able to say what you want without invalidating or evaluating for other people ... you can call this polite or humane ... any of the other kindnesses people can use to describe it ....

the art is to allow the other to say what they want to say .. and then you weave what they say into your reality as a response ... back .. then the person would be willing to look at your data ... and it is a system that works ... where you he does not evaluate for you or invalidate you ... too ... he accepts what you say and weaves it in with what he wants to say to you ... and then you have a communication cycle of affinity reality and communication ,., no one wants their communication stopped or invalidated or evaluated as something else ....

this is called sane communication ... humane communication between intelligent people ,,,

I'm sure you can say what you want to say ,.. without damaging the rest of the people on the forum .. that would be intelligent

it is NOT INTELLIGENT .. to break everyone's communication or reality or affinity for the SAKE of PUSHING YOUR AGENDA ONLY

jim

Jake

29th June 2013, 07:23

jiminii

29th June 2013, 07:31

I would always welcome a difference of opinion and a difference of experience.

TraineeHuman,, did you not begin this discussion by commenting on a direct question from member Teradactyl?? How do you justify your preference that this member along with others DO NOT post in this discussion??? To WHAT then, does this discussion serve?? Am I not allowed to enjoy the same wisdom that others do??? Am I only to listen,, and SHUT UP??? Please explain!

My friend,,, I have a piece of the puzzle.... I would NEVER suggest that it was the only one that matters!!!

All my best wishes...
Jake.

this is not for you jake ... I saw what you saw too

shouldn't say someone else's data is no good because only you know

I mean I would like to get into yoga and other stuff too to see what is there that is why I can share Music's point of view too ,,,

I have been in my world a long time and now I am in asia and I should learn their way of thinking too .. then it would be sharing ... and we can talk many ideas ...

I was just saying ... I see a lot of people do this ... and this is not communication ... and you are right to attack it

jim

jiminii

29th June 2013, 07:41

what I see here is THE BEING KNOWS ... some might get their realizations from different sources .. and they might look at the WORD higher self ... but still meaning the same idea ... and illusions?? if you were operating out of your body like you should be with your own perceptions looking at the body you are running .. this would be the natural way to do it ... it is not natural to have the viewpoint shifted inside the body ... it is natural for the spirit to communicate by radio frequencies and not sound waves ,.. but on this planet the viewpoint is shifted to the body to trap us ... from this point of view .. you could say this creation is an illusion ,.. a holographic universe we created ... to operate in ... that is one way to view it ... the art of all of this is to be able to see what the other one is looking at from their viewpoint ... this would be pan determinism a more sharing reality ,.

jim

Jake

29th June 2013, 07:42

This is powerful information that is being brought to the table. The OBE has a tendency to empower, and create sovereign beings. I understand the passion for a truth that I have discovered!! I love to see it in others,, it is quite fulfilling for me to see amazing awakenings in the people around me. I am even more amazed that the discussion of OBEs has taken on such sophisticated qualities. I DO NOT think that picking and choosing who gets to comment on what one is saying, is very fair... This is NOT a 'one size fits all' experience. Not the OBE not the Dream not physicality,,, none of it!! Waking up to the non-physical nature of OUR understanding of things is going to take ALL of us... NOT just some of us!!! I would prefer to see a LEADER of a discussion,,, not a dictator....

This discussion has always impressed me... I am not okay with being singled here!! But, if it is preferred, I will not be part of it,,, I guess?!

Eram

29th June 2013, 08:02

Hi Jake,

As I read it, TH expressed his amazement about you and teradactyl, to still talk about different techniques to get OBE here, after he explained his point of view of those kind of techniques and the sort of OBE experience that is obtained by that.
He did not ask you two to withhold from posting here at all.
Please read again carefully :)

Not taking sides here, just pointing out what might have been a misinterpretation from his post.

love you all!

Finefeather

29th June 2013, 09:07

I am pretty sure, when referring to this reality or 3D world - the world illusion is meant as a metaphor - we know how it feels to bump one's head into a wall. Illusion is of the physical body...which we think is everything...since we can feel...touch ..see ..hear and smell the world around us... everything besides these senses does not mean anything...to an ordinary person who has not yet awaken to the reality.... that is an illusion to him/her.
Now here we have a very interesting and common thinking by humans on this planet.
What we are not privy to is that there are numerous different stages of consciousness evolution, which is evident amongst us humans...but in a broad sense we have 2 main types...We have the 'physicalist' and the 'spiritualists' and yes of course they mingle.

The physicalists see life as a battle between themselves and all other physical phenomena. They are often paranoid in their thinking and see most things as a threat to their freedom and so called right to choose. Amongst this type we find those who use every 'evil' trick in the book to make their lives more comfortable...and to hell with the rest. We also have those who are still physicalists but have a deep sense of comrade or unity and wish to see peace on earth and brotherhood, and more love.
Each of these is resigned to life in a physical world and see any talk of life beyond death as mere speculation and unproven by science...who are their standard by which they realize their reality.

The spiritualists think life on earth is some kind of test and prison and all is just an illusion because they are convinced that our true home is somewhere up there next to god...our saviour and only hope of escape out of this mess. They pray often and try to practice every trick they can, like joining and paying gurus to free themselves from the intense turmoil on the planet. They are often also paranoid in their thinking because they give away all their worldly goods in some attempt to convince god that they don't belong here. This often brings self inflicted hardship and struggle which convinces them more than ever of the worthlessness of life on earth.

If we look at Avalon, as an example...we clearly can see this division, where we have those who are 'awake' and ready to do battle with the 'evil' ones and those who are 'awake' and who's only quest is to escape from this chaos.
Who is saying that we are not meant to fight and conquer the evil on earth?
Who is saying we should run off and leave the battle to those we think are just ignorant by remaining in the chaos?
Is this our freedom of choice or what?

All this, is going on, in different degrees, on this planet for one simple reason only...we have no idea who we are and no idea what we are doing here...and the fact is that we need guidance and clarity.

This guidance has come from the enlightened and those who are beginning to see the light themselves. The past 2000 years has seen many writings of great worth but most have been driven by emotional subjective thinking...and incorrect translation...we need the truth and the fact is that truth can only be got and understood by individual objective experience...there is no substitute. We are humans who have physical senses and these are the methods we use here to realize reality. If whoever created us was so intelligent to have come up with these senses then surely there is some reality in their use...and why would these be considered as organs of illusion?

There is only one logical explanation for our existence...(and remember if just one element in logic is false the entire logic is false)...and that is that everything...without exception...is evolving from one state into another higher state. This includes matter(light) and consciousness and is been facilitated by energy or will.
There is not one action or thought or phenomena that cannot be explained by one simple statement:

Thought creates form which creates consciousness.

That's it...this one simple statement can explain everything that you or I or the greatest Beings in our cosmos can imagine.

So the most important thing to get out of this is that nothing can exist in any plane or dimension or level of consciousness or dimension or whatever you would like to call the 49 states of consciousness which exist in our cosmos...without form.
Form is what creates consciousness and without form consciousness would not exist.

So the physical world is just another form of consciousness in which we are presently focused in and our senses are there for us to make sense of this reality. When we one day, in maybe a million years time, have evolved into the next higher dimension we will acquire the senses with which we will make sense of the reality there.

Right now we need to pave the way for future generations by turning this physical world into a more understandable phase in our long evolution...where 'evil' is seen for what it really is...failure to achieve higher consciousness...and progress or growth is realised by our actions and our deed...and most of all by unity...which is the only true form of love.

Take care and my love
Ray

TraineeHuman

29th June 2013, 10:30

Hi, Jake. As Eram points out, I wasn't inviting or suggesting that you shouldn't make posts here. I don't have control over what posts anyone makes anyway. I do, however, reserve the right to have my own opinion, based on my own limited experience. Similarly, teradactyl has made many posts on all sorts of things, and many of them have been quite brilliant, and very helpful to everyone.

ThePythonicCow

29th June 2013, 10:53

Finefeather

29th June 2013, 14:11

Hi TH
I think you might have misread my post in quite a few areas...so I think it is important for us to clear this up so we don't wonder off into conflict and the thread turns into a contest.

Ray, I take it you haven’t read some of my earliest posts in this thread. I believe I’ve made it very clear indeed from the beginning that I have a very different take on astral travel than someone like Jake or teradactyl. And that for me any exercises in learning astral travel are in my opinion of no value at all except as a kind of warmup to “higher” OB experience, i.e. what I’d describe as OB experience that doesn’t involve or need anything that could be called a “higher body”. So I probably agree with you that “subjective” astral travel attempts or experiences may often be harmful or misleading or whatever.
I am quite aware of what your stance is on OB but I think you have misunderstood what I said about OB. The real gist of my post was about the term Higher Self and not about OB. I have no problem with OB in any form if anyone wishes to pursue it. Who am I to tell anyone not to? My opinion is that casual OB in the lower realms can be dangerous and misleading if we are not aware of the many things which can confront us there. What you call 'higher' OB is simply higher dimension 'travel'...which itself can be misleading because of an inability to truly understand the nature of the place you'r in at the time. You could very well just be in one of the emotional dimensions and because of an imaginative subjective consciousness, think that you are in some higher dimension.
Your use of terms like 4D and 5D and 6D etc is not even considered by much higher evolved Beings to be of any value in determining the state we are in...because they clash with reality. So IMO much of the stuff you write about is subjective. This is why, I have noticed, you often get the dream interpretations wrong.
You clearly do not mention the fact that very few can actually even get into higher states of 'OB'...simply because your philosophy does not take evolution into account. The real reason why some people cannot consciously OB can be quite complex and is not as simple as some think. It is about what we are trying to achieve in each incarnation...and for many it is not necessary and in most cases does not indicate a higher level of growth. This is where understanding of the incarnating envelopes is of value.

I believe I’ve also made it very clear indeed that I consider the experience of proper meditation and phenomena related to it as the most important and the central type of OB experience and phenomena. I’m open to changing my mind on almost anything, but I certainly still continue to hold that view.
If you are open to changing your mind and still believe in things then it means you have not had objective confirmation of your present philosophy and that doubt still rules your life. Meditation is an inner journey not an out of body journey.

On the other hand, I doubt I would agree with your claim that “discussion of the Higher Mind is harmful”. I do agree with most of what you say in post #1013. Yes, it’s true all there is ultimately is the true Self. But as you say yourself, at present most people haven’t realised that. But I certainly don’t agree that for such people all talk of a Higher Mind is misleading and counterproductive.
Well I do not recall saying that...“discussion of the Higher Mind is harmful”...you are just imagining it...if you can direct me to it please do I was addressing the term 'Higher Self' not Higher Mind. If you are actually experiencing higher dimensions as you have frequently stated, you should know that there is no such thing as a Higher Self...and you should also know that the Higher Mind is actual the Causal Envelope in which the true Self is dormant. I am trying to steer away from terms which are steeped in myth and false understanding. I have also in the past used the term Higher Self because people are comfortable with it...but decided against this when I realised the many different ways people see this. You may have noticed that in my last posts I have been attempting to bring in a new set of words to set the myths aside.

Actually, the ego is even more an illusion than the Higher Mind.

Here is one of the statements which tells me where a person is consciously. This statement is a sure sign of lack of awareness of our constitution as well as the process of evolution.
Fist...the Higher Mind is not an illusion the Higher Self is the illusion...in the way it is been misunderstood here...and I am glad you decided to change the term Self to Mind.
The ego is also not an illusion...it is exactly who we are at a certain point in our evolution...ignorant and learning. The ego is not some entity sitting on our shoulder...leading us astray. The term ego has been turned into some little evil entity...rather than seeing it for what it actually is...the 'I' ...which is the unrealised true Self. This is the reason we need to determine our true Self, because then we can get on with the job of refining it, in order to evolve to higher states of consciousness instead of fighting it as if it is some appendage.

I agree with you that strictly speaking the Higher Mind is an illusion, for those who are able to reach a certain point. But even while you insist that the Higher Mind is an illusion you find it necessary in the process to make many references to the ego. Fine, then. But I suggest you should be consistent, and never mention or hint at the ego, or any equivalent of it, ever again! Please be consistent.
As I have stated above...I have never said the Higher Mind is an illusion...you have misread my post...thats all :)

As far as I can see, people need some kind of notion of a Higher Mind as a type of bridge to understanding the Self. It’s very easy, and in my opinion doesn’t take much skill or insight, to criticize the whole notion of the Higher Mind as being an illusion. That insight doesn’t impress me.
As I have stated above...I have never said the Higher Mind is an illusion...you have misread my post...thats all :)
And criticize is not my game. If people run across a road and gets bumped over by buses...is it criticizing to tell them not to run across the road?

But I don’t see any evidence at all so far that you’ve been able to create any better way of explaining the Self to people in a workable way. If you’re able to do that, then I believe you should certainly write a book, and talk to Eckhart Tolle’s publisher. Until I see it, I’ll continue to consider that it’s thousands of times easier to criticize than it is to create something that’s useful. And all pontifications that aren’t backed up by argument and evidence, to me are, to put it mildly, not worth taking seriously at all, regardless of who they may come from.
I am a firm supporter of the evolutionary matter and consciousness principle which is given out by the Planetary Hierarchy and Government, which Eckhart Tolle and many of the modern so called enlightened ones fail to address. This does not mean that they are wrong in all that they teach...it only means that they are not aware of the bigger picture yet. You cannot teach someone something if they do not have the capacity to comprehend it yet...but that does not mean they never will understand...because the evolution of consciousness is what will allow us to comprehend more and more, as we grow.

Also, personally in this thread I’m not interested in debating most philosophical questions. I did start a thread where I tried to elicit some sensible discussion of such topics in the Spirituality thread “What does it mean for you to free yourself of illusions?” Unfortunately, most of the posts weren’t as fertile as I’d hoped.
There is very little that can be achieved in a 'Spirituality' thread if you do not include philosophy because most people's spiritual thinking originates from some gurus philosophy...including your own. So by your lack of interest in other philosophy are you assuming yours is correct? Does philosophy also not mean the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge?

I first experienced the first three levels of Source in mid-adolescence. My interest in philosophy and psychology only arose out of attempting to express what I had directly experienced. I don’t apologise for my claim to be largely free of suffering. I started this thread with the purpose of doing my best to bring some others closer to what I have learned through direct experience, with the sole aim of the lessening of their suffering. Actually, I discovered that the Buddha was wrong in claiming that the very nature of existing in the physical world is suffering. I don’t base what I say in this thread on anything, ultimately, than my own experience.
With all due respects to your truly loving and admirable goals I would venture to say that the word 'Source' which so many misuse is a myth. There is no such thing that can be described as 'Source'. It is an attempt used by people to place their utterances on a pedestal...to impress the ignorant and to seek false status. Who or what do you think 'Source' is? The source of all knowledge?...then why is 'Source' sending out all these billions of Beings to gain knowledge...if he or it knows it all already? Is he just refreshing his memory? Or is he just playing some game to see how many of us can solve the riddle?
Please define 'Source' so we can get a better idea of what you think it is.

Unfortunately you do seem to have some fixed opinions regarding subjectivity and objectivity.
(Though I probably agree with some if not most of the things you say about what you call “subjectivism”.) I happen to have a postgraduate degree and a little lecturing experience in philosophy. Philosophers have unanimously agreed since Descartes’ day (and also centuries ago in ancient China and India) that the only things that are certain are what are known as “inter-subjective”. Something is inter-subjective if it’s subjective and also everyone has the same subjective experience of it. For example, any measurement is inter-subjective, as is the statement: “I can’t doubt my own existence.” I assume you have a belief that anything that’s certain is “objective”, but I’m afraid that’s a false belief.

What gives you the impression that it is unfortunate to have some fixed opinions? In any case I do not have fixed opinions I just have a different opinion to some others.
Most philosophers have their own opinions and many die with that opinion...that is why we have so many to choose from. I cannot believe the statement you make that “ Philosophers have unanimously agreed” that would be miracle :) and no...you assumed wrong...I do not believe that anything that's certain is objective. Certainty is a relative concept and depends on the mental state. The mental state is dependant on consciousness...and the consciousness is dependant on the evolutionary state.

If you feel threatened or think that any of my posts are not to your liking please let me know and I will either delete the posts or retire from this thread.

My mission is not to destroy but to unite...and I cannot miss the chance of placing some knowledge into the palms of another brother's hands, for his/her consideration, if it has the potential for growth and light and love.

Take care and my love
Ray

Eram

29th June 2013, 14:34

Jake

29th June 2013, 16:50

Okay, I have slept on it. Folks, I love you all. I will not be a distraction on this thread again! The Out of Body experience is not just a passing fancy for me. I have been on the front lines for many years. Bill Buhlman and I have had conversations about it,, Same with other 'pioneers' in this discovery!! All I am looking for is truth...

Hi, Jake. As Eram points out, I wasn't inviting or suggesting that you shouldn't make posts here. I don't have control over what posts anyone makes anyway. I do, however, reserve the right to have my own opinion, based on my own limited experience. Similarly, teradactyl has made many posts on all sorts of things, and many of them have been quite brilliant, and very helpful to everyone.

Yes, so do I,,, even if others are laughing with embarassement for me.... I respect your commitment to what you have to offer.

For the record,,, I DID read the post again,,, several times,,, You would prefer if I did not post here,,, I have a wealth of knowledge/events/experiences that I have not posted anywhere!! I have learned that being a know-it-all,,, turns more people off, than on! You have a lot to learn, Trainee Human... I love you anyways...

Sebastion

29th June 2013, 17:43

Jake, I would suggest that there is no one who is laughing with embarassment for you and if there are, well, it would be out of their own ignorance..

I have deliberately withheld from posting in this thread although I have kept up with it. I have come to realize that no two people will completely agree on spiritual matters for any number of reasons. There is no right way nor wrong way there is only your way...

Whether one calls it OBE, astral travel or spiritual traveling is of no real consequence in the end, especially if one is intent upon evolving to uncover the truth of all things. To wangle over fine or coarse is fruitless for mind cannot be used to seek something from mind. However the spirit can be used to seek spirit.

I have always enjoyed your posts and your enthusiasm, please my friend continue to post your episodes, etc regarding OBE...My best to you!

Okay, I have slept on it. Folks, I love you all. I will not be a distraction on this thread again! The Out of Body experience is not just a passing fancy for me. I have been on the front lines for many years. Bill Buhlman and I have had conversations about it,, Same with other 'pioneers' in this discovery!! All I am looking for is truth...

Hi, Jake. As Eram points out, I wasn't inviting or suggesting that you shouldn't make posts here. I don't have control over what posts anyone makes anyway. I do, however, reserve the right to have my own opinion, based on my own limited experience. Similarly, teradactyl has made many posts on all sorts of things, and many of them have been quite brilliant, and very helpful to everyone.

Yes, so do I,,, even if others are laughing with embarassement for me.... I respect your commitment to what you have to offer.

For the record,,, I DID read the post again,,, several times,,, You would prefer if I did not post here,,, I have a wealth of knowledge/events/experiences that I have not posted anywhere!! I have learned that being a know-it-all,,, turns more people off, than on! You have a lot to learn, Trainee Human... I love you anyways...

Eram

30th June 2013, 09:06

So....

Now that the yesterdays thunderstorm has passed (at least for now),
I'd like to take the chance to apologize, if my words of the last 2 posts have in any way or form have hurt anybody.

Maybe it is time for a little humor, 'Eckhart Tolle style' to break the tension...

gPstEm-x2GU

Chester

30th June 2013, 15:47

Chester

30th June 2013, 15:55

What you fight, you become... what you become you transform... and if not it consumes you.
jom

that was a fast thanks Ray...

I have been getting sick and tired of being consumed - haha

Anyways, I think I encountered Ray in the astral.... and well, Ray is a self professed "rescuer" so you folks get the idea, eh?

I am certain there was a "deep reaching down."

Finefeather

30th June 2013, 16:02

Hi Ray - some extremely strange (and positive it seems) things have been going on of late... just letting you know I have not thrown you under the bus (yet! haha). I hope you haven't given up on me either.
Best Regards Chester

Yes - is very OBE related
Hi Dear Chester...old friend !
What bus? you threw me under a freight train loaded with riddles :)

Looking forward to your story and hope you remind me when and where you post it...been going off for days lately...always searching.

You will always be in my heart
Love to you
Ray

Chester

30th June 2013, 16:41

Chester

30th June 2013, 17:30

Orph

30th June 2013, 23:03

Ron Mauer Sr

1st July 2013, 01:00

TraineeHuman

1st July 2013, 04:27

I can certainly relate to suffering being self generated, but I can also understand fully how that is a tough pill to swallow. Leading up to my 'Gaia' experience (again, a highly pivotal and profound moment for me), I was personally experiencing a great deal of turmoil regarding both my direction in life and my relationships with others close to me. During the peak of these difficulties, I would have been quite closed to the notion that I was the central cause of my suffering and in fact it would have probably made me quite angry. It was a very difficult process to see that my ignorance and chiefly a rampant ego was really the primary source of it all. I had to lose quite a lot to learn that lesson.

Even now, I have an incurable illness which has effected me on a daily basis since I was 15. It was the source of a great deal of suffering to me for several years, and made it easy to see myself as a victim of circumstance. However I eventually came to the point where I was able to shift my perspective, and see it more as an obstacle, or a lesson. It became more of a challenge than a curse. It still effects me, but I no longer really see it as a sort of unnecessary suffering (if that makes sense).

Anyway, I had another vivid dream last night, though not nearly as long as the last one.

I was riding in a car with my sister and my mother (who was driving). As we went along, I saw numerous tornadoes forming around us, but mostly behind us. There were at least four of them. I then looked ahead of us, off to the passenger side, and saw a massive white cloud formation which had beautiful, vibrant rainbow colors around the sides. I pointed it out, and soon after it changed shape. It turned into a massive, sort-of goat-man that was laying parallel with the earth, facing down toward the ground. Its face somewhat resembled a Japanese Oni. Once it had assumed this new form it began flying in our direction. Though the transformation was very surprising, I didn't find it alarming save for the fact that it was so large, that we were the size of ants by comparison.

We soon stopped in a town I'd never seen before, at which point I wandered off on my own. I soon found myself in the alleyways of a neighborhood in which every house had apparently been recently painted, each with different shades of bright colors. I quickly found myself unable to navigate out of this neighborhood because every house seemed to be surrounded by tall, chain-link fences without gates. Again, this wasn't alarming to me, but it was somewhat frustrating.

Well, that's about all I can recall. As always, thanks for humoring me. ;)

Curious. Let’s all not forget that what the Higher Mind attempts to show us in our dreams are the last things we want to admit are currently true in our lives.

But this is the fourth dream you’ve told us about in a row which I believe has featured something beautiful and spiritually elevated and profound. I wonder if this then means that in some way you’ve become used to coping with your chronic illness in such a way that you feel a wonderful life can’t be your lot in some sense.

In your dreams your Higher Mind evidently wants to keep reassuring you that you most certainly are more “beautiful” inside than you currently realize, more “spiritually” “elevated” for lack of better words, more free.

You’ve mentioned you believe this dream could possibly have some connection to your lifelong disease, and your long struggle to put that limitation aside inwardly. I believe the walled-off homes you saw represented something like closed minds. You say the closed-off walls didn’t bother you at all. So, their desire to invalidate where you are truly at didn’t bother you. Which of course would suggest you’ve now grown strong enough not to need reassurance from others regarding your own inner strength and worth. Maybe it could also mean they all (believed they) weren’t capable of showing anything better at the time than invalidating you.

I love the way your dreams all seem to be so relatively problem-free compared to other peoples’. It does indeed suggest to me that you might well have recent ET origins, from a world less filled with suffering.

Eram

1st July 2013, 08:16

Finefeather

1st July 2013, 13:45

Thought creates form which creates consciousness.

Form is what creates consciousness and without form consciousness would not exist.

Crap. I thought it was the other way around. I'm all mixed up. I thought consciousness created form.

It's been said that "spirit" has a tough time getting into these dense physical bodies. And here I am trying to get the heck out. No wonder I'm so lost and confused. One part of me is trying to have an OBE while another part of me is trying to have an IBE. :)

I'm with you Orph. I strongly suspect that consciousness and energy create form.

Inspiration...........thought.............form

When you build a shed in your garden, you first find inspiration, then you think about how you are going to do it, what tools and what construction supplies, then after you acquired them, you build the shed.
This is true for everything that is in form.

So everything that we can see as material form has been preceded by thought, which has been preceded by inspiration.

That part I understand, but I would like to get some explanation about the consciousness that is created through form.

Maybe it has to do with the challenges that form bring us (resisting it or accepting it) that brings forth consciousness?
First I must say thank you for these posts because we seem to have uncovered the biggest problem on the block :)
For us to understand the many things we read and the stories we hear we always need to know something in order to make sense of some information. If we know very little we start to assume things and our imagination does the rest. In esoteric truths the minimum requirement is to know the basics...because without it we cannot determine the validity of much we read...and we will often spend days or years studying or believing someone's ramblings without even realising that it could all just be their imaginative subjective consciousness at work. For example...many on this forum have based their belief system on someone like Eve Lorgen or Dr Malanga, (I think is his name) of Horus Ra fame...Both of these peoples writings fail the esoteric basic logic test and make them invalid.
The last day or so, on this thread, has once again proven the necessity for some common ground when discussing esoteric principles.

Eram, what you have done is use your life experience and in doing this you have proved certain basic esoteric facts without even reading about it. This is the only way we can prove or validate the esoteric facts. There is not one thing we as humans can truly know without experiencing it objectively in our life. I have recently been harping about objectivity and subjectivity because of it's extreme importance in growth. No matter what you read or no matter how many OB's you have... they will always just be subjective experience...and unless you prove these objectively...in some dimension...they will forever be our own imaginative self created illusions or our personal mental creations. They might seem real but they are not. This is why we have so many different ideas about what exists in the emotional or 'astral' worlds.

So having said that lets look at the statements I made and try to prove them from basic life experience...so we no longer have to believe...but know what we experience.

Thought creates form which creates consciousness. and

Form is what creates consciousness and without form consciousness would not exist.

First here are some basics:
Everything that is manifest has 3 aspects...and you can try to prove this wrong but you will fail.
These aspects cannot exist separately and each is a result of, or the cause of the other.
They are Motion, Matter and Consciousness. This is the trinity of life which is mentioned in many places. Some of us have come across this as Spirit, Body and Soul...and many other terms have been used, but they all mean the same thing. Nothing can exist in any dimension...and there are 49 dimensions in our cosmos, starting at 1 on the top as the highest...without these 3 aspects. We as humans are only objectively conscious in the bottom 3 levels...'solid', liquid and air...of the 49th level...the bottom one! So this should tell you just how 'unconscious' we actually are in comparison to where we are heading. To get this far has taken us billions of years...through lower kingdoms like the mineral kingdom, the plant kingdom, and the animal kingdom.

Motion is energy or thought or what some have come to understand as 'Spirit'. Energy is also sound. If you read IItzhak Bentov's book...Stalking the Wild Pendulum...somewhere on this thread...you will get a good idea that forms can be created by energy. You can also google it...if you need proof. The most primordial of these forms created in the cosmos is the primordial atom...which is the most basic and hence indestructible form. This form is level 1 in our cosmos. All other forms are involutions of this one basic primordial atom. This is what is called matter. So matter is created or formed from energy. We should know that there is no such thing as a solid. And so we can think about this as much as we like and we will realise that no thing can exist without motion or energy or sound or Spirit. The dead fish in your fridge is as alive with energy as the light which shines from your 10 buck torch...the only difference is the rate at which it is vibrating at...and the atomic structure, or configuration...in the great sea or carrier wave of life.

Matter in it's simplest form is the primordial atom...and in it's most elaborate form can be a BMW or a pair of shoes...or the shed Eram wants to build. To give you some idea of how far humans are to understanding what the atom is...science has only in the most extreme case struggled to identify the bottom level of an atom...they have 49 to go! And science will never discover them because we do not have the physical means to do this. They are only knowable in higher states of consciousness...and this brings us to consciousness.

Consciousness is only what it is because we are aware of something. Something exists because we can identify it...some not as good as others. So far, using our 5 senses, and having evolved for billions of years, has enabled us to identify and be aware of, and hence conscious of the things around us. If we had no senses at all there would be no consciousness and if we had all the 5 senses and nothing existed to interact with them then we would not be conscious of anything. Imagine yourself just newly created...floating in a pitch dark space with no sound and nothing around you to touch or smell or taste...nothing...no consciousness.

Everything we know is a result of interacting with objects, which are made out of matter, and if there is no objects there is nothing to interact with.
When we hear...we interact with sound and sound is waves of matter. Sound does not travel through a vacuum.
When we touch...we interact with matter which was created by energy.
When we see...we interact with matter which was created by energy.
When we taste...we interact with matter which was created by energy.
When we smell...we interact with matter which was created by energy.

So consciousness cannot exist without matter which was created from energy...and so matter is what causes us to be conscious...and so matter creates consciousness.

We can see the age old truth of the ancient writings which states that “In the beginning was the Word” The word is the sound or the energy or the Spirit, which ever you are comfortable with.

Take care and my love
Ray

I just added a few words in blue to the original to clarify...

Freed Fox

1st July 2013, 17:08

Thank you Trainee... as always I value your interpretations, and they always make a lot of sense to me, in the context of both my physical life and my internal landscape.

For those who disagree with TH's dream interpretations, that's unfortunate but okay. If you recall, he himself said that one should consider his or her own intuition as the highest authority in translating the symbolism and meaning behind dreams. We're all a bit different, after all, and there are countless variables and experiences we've had which can 'color' the dreams we experience, and one can't expect to share that entire context along with the dreams themselves. As I said though, and for whatever it's worth, the feedback he's given me has been spot on with the impression the dreams have given me. In a couple of instances I was left not knowing what to make of certain aspects of dreams, but after reflecting upon the interpretations here, they've often felt right or at least very, very close.

And Jake (also FWIW), I've enjoyed your posts here, as well as teradactyl's. I guess you could always start your own thread, though, if you have a lot of procedural OBE advice to give (as that seemed to be what TH took issue with, rather than your posts themselves). As far as I am aware, there are currently only this thread and one other dealing with OBE. I don't think three threads would be overkill, considering there are about a dozen Edward Snowden threads (for example).

Chester

2nd July 2013, 14:45

Jake

2nd July 2013, 14:55

And Jake (also FWIW), I've enjoyed your posts here, as well as teradactyl's. I guess you could always start your own thread, though, if you have a lot of procedural OBE advice to give (as that seemed to be what TH took issue with, rather than your posts themselves). As far as I am aware, there are currently only this thread and one other dealing with OBE. I don't think three threads would be overkill, considering there are about a dozen Edward Snowden threads (for example).

There are several,, and I do!! thx for the heads up! I have been a part of, started and nurtured lots of discussions about OBE and astral projection!!! I don't have a problem with being singled out. (anymore!) I get it! Lots of cool stuff is happening here! My experiences have an ET element to them. Folks in this discussion will not readily embrace that, so I say goooddaayyyy!! I will still read, and sometimes slap my head with embarrassement... (just kidding TH,,, I love you all!!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuNvxH5kSKU

Finefeather

2nd July 2013, 15:29

Finefeather

2nd July 2013, 15:43

Ron Mauer Sr

2nd July 2013, 16:03

I guess you could always start your own thread, though, if you have a lot of procedural OBE advice to give (as that seemed to be what TH took issue with, rather than your posts themselves). As far as I am aware, there are currently only this thread and one other dealing with OBE. I don't think three threads would be overkill, considering there are about a dozen Edward Snowden threads (for example).
I must say I am a little puzzled as to the reasoning here, after all is this thread not called:
"OBEs: What are they, how to make them happen,and where does the Higher Self fit in?"
So would Jake not be an asset in procedural issues...in connection to 'how to make them happen' with his experience?

A bit like the student throwing out the teacher when he hasn't learnt to count yet.

Take care
Ray

Jake, I would love to hear more about your OBE and ET adventures, either here or another thread of your own.

I do understand that if one's views differ significantly from the thread initiator, it is sometimes more comfortable to post elsewhere. But I think contrasting perspective is very valuable. Doing that with respect is one of the reasons Project Avalon has attracted so many quality posters. Very valuable and informative.

The currently active OBE threads, this one and The Secret Of The Soul - and OBE (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51152-The-Secret-Of-The-Soul-and-OBE) are both interesting to me, yet flavored very differently.

animovado

2nd July 2013, 16:32

Finefeather

2nd July 2013, 17:12

Ray, in post #1026 you describe two categories of humans and i like to know,
where do you think yourself fits in? :p

Hi animovado
I do not subscribe to separation. All worlds are the one creation and we are at this point in our evolution in the physical world, where we are becoming conscious of things at this level. In time and because it is our goal, we will one day move into higher kingdoms. Our current task is to master physical life, with all of it's many difficulties.

'Spirituality' exists in all the worlds and cannot be separated just because we think the physical world is what it is...To be 'spiritual' we do not need to go to another dimension...the real place to learn is here. How can we learn about the physical world if we do not living in it?

Unity and love is attainable here on earth. Only once we have learnt the significance of this, and only once we have cultivated this thinking, and demonstrated it in the way we live our lives, will we be able to move on and advance to higher dimensions as a permanent place of residence. Until we have achieved this we will reincarnate continually back into the physical world. We have all had thousands of incarnation to get us to this point in our thinking...in bodies on this and other planets.

Millions who incarnate now into bodies on Terra have come from many other planets and solar systems in an attempt to finish off their physical incarnations by refining their individual consciousness through experience on this planet.

Love to you
Ray

animovado

2nd July 2013, 20:57

Okay Ray, i'll take this as an answer to my question.

I do not subscribe to separation.

Ray, i wasn't assuming that, i don't subscribe it either - except in the dark moments of my live, where separation and dissociation were taking place.
I was just kidding, because of the "what creates what" theme in the last few posts.

In time and because it is our goal, we will one day move into higher kingdoms.

I will quote an older brother of us.

"...nothing chains you to the rhythm of a somewhat defiant mankind. The liberation is not a matter of time, yet of the influences of the movement of the eons, but rather a personal determination"

While i'm reading your post the impression arises, that it's meant for the "man in the prison" you might see, or the impatience of a juvenile soul. Maybe that's not far from the truth and thank you, Ray, for your kind and encouraging words.

I never had a strong longing for higher realms and the planes above 3D.
In my childhood i had a very short, spontaneous OBE. In the moment
i became aware hovering under the ceiling, i was terrified and instantly pulled back. As there were other odd and frightening things happening and i guess they had to do with adjustments of the energetic body, as i believe is a very natural event.
So, due to this experiences there was never a longing for the beauties of the astral world i've later heard about.
I thought to myself, hey, what's happening there is not so different to what i know from this plane here. One to handle is more than enough.

And i found that i have to handle the higher realms anyway, even when i'm incarnated. I took again twenty years to have enough courage to get closer to that topic again - hopefully a little more mature.;)

Chester

3rd July 2013, 03:28

TraineeHuman

3rd July 2013, 04:01

It continues to be surprising and embarrassing to me that teradatyl and Jake continue to post about such things here. I don’t know why they don’t post such material in a thread such as The Secret Of The Soul instead – which I’d certainly prefer.

Hi, Jake. As Eram points out, I wasn't inviting or suggesting that you shouldn't make posts here.
Perhaps we misread then, or perhaps you have some distinction in mind that we missed?

Let me clarify. Although I made a mistake by expressing myself in a way that Jake understandably found very offensive, my (conscious) intention certainly wasn’t to request Jake and teradactyl not to make any posts in this thread. I certainly never said or implied “any posts”. I also made the post hastily and was foolish enough not to check to see whether its wording was offensive – for which I apologize to Jake. For one thing, around 1% of teradactyl’s posts have been of the type I was (very clumsily) expressing my displeasure at. It’s also the case that under about 30% of Jake’s posts would fall in that category. I didn’t mention at the time that I’ve certainly found all of Jake’s posts (except some in the last week) lots of fun to read, because he has a unique kind of strong enthusiasm that’s very refreshing to experience.

It’s also unfortunate that I didn’t make some change to the thread’s title early on. But let me explain some of the history of this thread, purely as I see it. I started the thread primarily with the intention of eventually facilitating individuals getting more in touch with their higher consciousness (Higher Mind, Higher Self). I knew that 35 years ago astral travel was one of many things that together had helped me to do that. I also assumed that anyone interested in astral travel was also ultimately interested in the latter – which, based on my experience, astral travel seems to be a kind of good stepping stone towards.

I soon discovered that most people seemed to have more difficulty succeeding at astral travel than I had had. That made it harder for me to help them because of the way I learnt to astral travel “fluently”, such as every night in the middle of sleep. The way I learnt that was through special help. I don’t know how I did most of it, because it was handed to me on a silver platter. Those “guides” that took me to various tutorials (sometimes one-to-one) or classes or lectures every single night – often in locations elsewhere in the solar system. The classes occurred in venues that most often looked almost like a small old-fashioned classroom with a big blackboard on stilts, or sometimes looked like a lecture theatre or a hall or a temple. I’m pretty sure that was the “hologram” given to me so I’d feel more familiar with the setting each time, rather than how it really looked. I remember once or twice being amazed to be quite refreshed in the morning when I knew I had been attending various “classes” that night.

But I soon realized that for every person reading the thread who’d had even a rare astral experience there seemed to be more than one who hadn’t, and that only a few seemed to find it – relatively! – easy as I had, and do. And I was interested in helping the non- astral experiencers, who obviously needed something else.

I also soon realized that to me personally, “bi-location” and (proper) meditation are very much the most important kinds of OB experiences. I thought that by now I’ve made that abundant clear. I don’t understand why people who’ve read the thread want to insist that “OB experience” has to mean “astral travel”, or that astral travel is even the most important kind of such experience. To me that now seems ridiculous, as I thought I’d made clear some time ago. You might as well claim something absurd, such as that unconscious form creates all consciousness! Or that “in the beginning was the Word”, but that “Word” had no consciousness. Sounds like “the Word” must be a robot computer, perhaps!

These days I rarely astral travel, but I do bi-locate all the time. And the primary reason I stopped astral traveling and even Light-“traveling” was that I found over a number of years that “bi-location”, at least for me, seemed to achieve everything that’s relevant there to soul evolvement. Hence I have recently been offering the experience and exercise of “being at one with”, and have also suggested meditation, because both of these develop bi-location skill – eventually, or much sooner.

The notion that a spiritual life centrally involves some kind of “bi-location” is very common. As far as I know, all forms of Hinduism acknowledge that one must activate one’s higher consciousness/mind so that it is functioning along with one’s ordinary mind and egoic consciousness. I understand Mahayana Buddhism includes the majority of Buddhists, and “Mahayana” means “Big Mind/Consciousness” so again, it’s the same idea. Christianity speaks of “the descent of the Holy Spirit”. And “the Holy Spirit” endows one with certain intuitive and clairvoyant gifts, and with virtues. And so on.

Quite apart from that, I have already dredged my memory from around 30 to 35 years ago and I’ve offered whatever advice or comments I could regarding astral travel. mostly much earlier in the thread. So I’m close to “out of petrol” in that area. And yes, I again stress, I don’t believe it’s the most important type of OB experience. I do think it’s a pity Jake hasn’t started a thread regularly presenting maybe summaries of “how to” sections of his book, and then answered any questions in such a thread. Or maybe he could do that
in the The Secret Of The Soul thread, or wherever. That’s what I should have said earlier instead of expressing myself so poorly in that earlier post.

The other thing is, a number of people are apparently making very good progress in their soul’s unfoldment mostly without any significant astral travel, it seems. There are even at least several such people who don’t post but have communicated to me by PM. A very big consideration for me at all times has been to present the safest, sanest ways I could find to do things. So I’d much rather have someone with more recent experiences than myself commenting on astral travel. But –as it felt to me – in this thread that might by this stage be confusing because, it seems to me, that would now be going in a different direction.

One last comment. What seems to always happen in the journey towards freedom from suffering is that initially and for many years things seem to get tougher and tougher. No doubt this is because one is uncovering bigger and bigger egoic obstacles lying in one’s psyche the further one goes – until a certain point is reached. No doubt brave individuals such as teradactyl are experiencing some of this, and hence may find themselves eager for “something else” that may make things get much easier right now.

TraineeHuman

3rd July 2013, 07:48

this morning i remembered a dream, or at least the significant end of it.
If you like to take a look on it, i post it here...

You're very welcome to do so. Most of our dreams come from our Higher Mind, as far as I'm aware. I'm always happy to hear anything that truly comes from the Higher Mind.

Finefeather

3rd July 2013, 13:59

You might as well claim something absurd, such as that unconscious form creates all consciousness! Or that “in the beginning was the Word”, but that “Word” had no consciousness. Sounds like “the Word” must be a robot computer, perhaps!

Hi TH
As this is my 'absurdity', which I claim, and which I tried, unsuccessfully, to get across...it would only be fitting if you explained and elaborated on this statement of yours...which you have sneaked into your post, and brushed under the carpet...as if it was some ramblings from just another ignorant human...requiring no action. You even failed to get it right because you did not read and understand the statement I made when I said in the beginning of that post, that the 3 aspects of Motion, Consciousness and Matter cannot exist separately. Also...if you have been in any OB states...especially the emotional/astral levels...you should know that anything we think is created instantly...and if we did not think, we do not create, and how do you think we would be conscious of anything which does not exist?...another illusion?

Also in a previously post I asked you to explain what you understand as 'Source'...who you claim to have experienced...you have not yet done so.

So here are my questions to you:
1. Do you 'believe' in the evolution of life...and that we have over many billions of years evolved from mineral to plant to animal to our current human kingdom?
2. If you do then can you explain why consciousness is so radically different from say the mineral to the human kingdom and also what part our human senses might play in the expansion of our consciousness...seen that minerals and plants do not have these and are known to be less conscious that we are.
3. What is consciousness and what is it that causes it to increase as we evolve?...and why is one human less conscious than another?
4. What part does your kind of 'higher mind' OB have in increasing our consciousness over mundane 'astral travel'...when both are just another form of subjective self created illusion?...even the place you think you are in.
Only Causal Beings...are able to judge fact from illusion in any of the so called dimensions you think exist...and if you were a Causal Being...you would know exactly that true objective consciousness is a function of objectiveness only and cannot be attained in any other way. The subjective consciousness you might be thinking of is not realised consciousness. If we don't know of truth in our physical state of consciousness, we do not know it in any dimension. Nobody becomes omniscient in out of body states...this is pure illusion.

5. Who or what is this 'Source' you talk of and what significance does it have in our lives.

Thank you...and take care, and my love to you.
Ray

Jake

3rd July 2013, 18:07

TH said here: Let me clarify. Although I made a mistake by expressing myself in a way that Jake understandably found very offensive, my (conscious) intention certainly wasn’t to request Jake and teradactyl not to make any posts in this thread. I certainly never said or implied “any posts”. I also made the post hastily and was foolish enough not to check to see whether its wording was offensive – for which I apologize to Jake. For one thing, around 1% of teradactyl’s posts have been of the type I was (very clumsily) expressing my displeasure at. It’s also the case that under about 30% of Jake’s posts would fall in that category. I didn’t mention at the time that I’ve certainly found all of Jake’s posts (except some in the last week) lots of fun to read, because he has a unique kind of strong enthusiasm that’s very refreshing to experience.

Thank you for the clarifying remarks. A very wise person just PMd me about the power of words, and reminded me that we are all on the same side here.

TH, Here at Avalon, we have embraced a tradition where we exchange thoughts and ideas. I will always come to the defense of a member, or myself, if we are told that it is preferred that we do not post our points of view. This forum is not a place where we have pulpits for folks to preach. A freeflow exchange of Ideas, is always the best formula. You have surrounded yourself with amazing minds and amazing people! Embrace it! You are an amazing mind and an amazing person. I would certainly be at a loss if I did not embrace that.

Cheers to all. Jake.

AwakeInADream

3rd July 2013, 19:55

Hi Jake!:) I had a rather unexpected dream about two nights ago in which I saw, guess what, TWO MOONS!!!
I hadn't really given the concept any more thought but I really can't ignore the information that was transmitted wordlessly to me in this dream:

First off, there was only one Moon, but there was also a great comet rolling across the sky that was much brighter than the Moon which dimmed as it came to a stop to the right and parallel with the first Moon. It was then that I realized it was a second Moon, so in the dream I decide to come and look for you to tell you what I'd seen. I went to a place where I thought I might find you (somehow?), and an older lady with white curly hair said you weren't there (must be a time-zone thing). It was then that I received the thoughts that told me what it was all about. I knew that what you were doing (possibly every time you go out of body?), was going into the future to a time when there were two Moons and that this had great significance for the future of humanity. I was experiencing this time, in the dream, and I knew that the creation of the second Moon was set to cause a great awakening for the whole population, something that every one could plainly see with they're eyes and could not ignore. This miraculous event would be the catalyst in a great war between the forces of good and evil for the control (and possible liberation) of the planet because people en mass would realize that there really is hope, and help out there, and that TPTB's days were truly numbered. We had an alternative, and above all we had choice.:)

So when I woke up, I gave some serious thought to the possibility that this two Moon scenario might actually happen. David Icke has the theory that our Moon is actually a hollowed out spaceship that was put in place by ET races. I've also read reports saying that there appear to be cracks appearing on the Moons surface, also that the mass of the Moon acts very strangely. Perhaps our old Moon has had it's day then and needs replacing? The best way to do this is to have a smooth transition between the old Moon and the new Moon in which the mass of the first Moon would be gradually lowered (if indeed the ET's have control of the mass), whilst the mass of the new Moon would be gradually raised. When complete, the old Moon could be taken away for scrap or repair. This sort of maintenance can't possibly be done in secret, and so maybe the ET's have no choice but to reveal themselves to the whole planet in this way.

This sounds crazy even to myself, but the dream really inspired me, and I really can't help thinking 'What if?'...:)

So anyway, Jake, what do you think about the idea that your OBE's are all taking place in the future?
(you did see your pet in the future didn't you)
If this is the case, then you maybe able to do a little research next time, like perhaps asking some of the residents (in the future Earth) how the second Moon came to be?
This may make more sense than trying to chase it down.

P.S. Hi TraineeHuman!:) I'm not off topic am I? I'm really interested in the mechanics of Jakes OBE experiences in respect to time travel.
Also I think it useful to both other's and myself when Teradactyl want's to get 'back to basics' sometimes. It's much better for this thread to be inclusive, rather than exclusive.:)

Synchronicity Alert: Hi Teradactyl!:) when you posted that OBE technique passage from Lobsang Rampa's book, I had been away from my computer for a few days, but I've worked out that I had been re-reading that exact same passage on the same day and at roughly the same time that you posted it. This tells me it was much needed.:)

AwakeInADream

4th July 2013, 03:39

Hi TH!:) I think it was around four months ago when the subject of intention was first brought up on this thread. I told you by PM then that I had set a very strong intention that I would find a job where I would be happy (if such a thing was possible). At the time it felt like I hadn't made this intention myself, because I was making it as the Higher Self. So since the intention came from my Higher Mind, I believe it was much more powerful. I believed with certainty that this would happen, and I was right to believe.

I have successfully manifested myself a perfect job!:)

I've applied for hundreds of jobs in the long time in which I was unemployed, and I was in no position to refuse any of them. The probability was that I would get a job I didn't like doing, but I've defied the odds and found a job that I literally love doing. It doesn't even feel like work, I think because the 'feeling the aliveness' is now part of who I am, I enjoy being there. I'm working directly with customers for the first time in my life, not hidden away in a warehouse, and when I make a customer happy, I know it because I feel an electric current run over my scalp, I feel appreciated. Every day I communicate to everyone I meet my deep inner peace and joy, transmitted through the medium of a simple smile.:) My Soul loves this.:)

So I must thank you again TraineeHuman!:) This thread has helped me to transform first my inner world, then my outer aspect and now finally the world I live in! New doors are continually opening for me, and people are treating me better (based on how I treat myself). It seems like since I've found this hidden layer of unconditional love and bliss that was always there, but just under the surface, the physical world around me is being transformed to reflect that which was once hidden. What I first perceive at a subtle level, seems to come into manifestation just because I observe it. Maybe this is intention in action? The world has definitely changed in a very real way, since I have changed myself.:)

-------------------

EDIT: Speaking of smiles:) It was a simple smile that first communicated to me the great importance of Itzhak Bentov when I saw him in the video Ray posted. I knew by his smile that he knew something that I needed to know too. Strangers keep catching me smiling in the street, apparently at nothing, but I know that they really know why at the Soul level. This is real communication.

GkKLhOU_0Fo

Led Zeppelin

Mmm, I'm telling you now,
The greatest thing you ever can do now,
Is trade a smile with someone who's blue now,
It's very easy just...ooh, yeah

TraineeHuman

4th July 2013, 05:21

I have successfully manifested myself a perfect job!:)

I've applied for hundreds of jobs in the long time in which I was unemployed, and I was in no position to refuse any of them. The probability was that I would get a job I didn't like doing, but I've defied the odds and found a job that I literally love doing. It doesn't even feel like work, I think because the 'feeling the aliveness' is now part of who I am, I enjoy being there. I'm working directly with customers for the first time in my life, not hidden away in a warehouse, and when I make a customer happy, I know it because I feel an electric current run over my scalp, I feel appreciated. Every day I communicate to everyone I meet my deep inner peace and joy, transmitted through the medium of a simple smile.:) My Soul loves this.:)

Now that's an example of what I would call the descent of the Higher Mind into the physical world!

TraineeHuman

4th July 2013, 11:20

Most of the time, in this thread at present, I’m only interested in talking in terms of what people are directly experiencing, and their or my best understanding of what they’re experiencing, or may be experiencing. If someone wants to dismiss people’s direct experience, including my own, then I guess I don’t have any common ground with them. In which case there’s no point “debating” or whatever.

Direct experience, combined with some reflection on it, is king, as far as I’m concerned.

However, I guess readers would like me to explain why, for example, all physicists know that the assumption that reality is made out of such things as “objects” is unworkable, unless you replace “objects” with “quantum objects”. An example of a “quantum object” is any electron, and indeed any “particle” from subatomic physics that’s as small as an electron, or smaller. The trouble is, for example, that if you ask what the location is of any electron at all, the answer is that every electron is in fact a probability field that extends throughout the entire physical universe. Strictly speaking, to call it a “particle” is only a metaphor, because it is in fact a field that is fully as large as the universe. Gary Zukav explains all this, and some other such problems with the notion of “particles” or “objects”, in his book The Dancing Wu-Li Masters, in very simple language. I’ve already referred readers of this thread to that book a few times. So you should already know that the whole concept of “object” or “particle” is, strictly speaking, inadequate for explaining physical reality.

Hence, science proves that reality ultimately isn’t made of objects, at all. Another interesting point here is that, as Zukav also explains, the concepts regarding reality underlying quantum physics are very similar to, and close to identical to, those used by Taoism. But Taoism’s concepts were developed to describe what meditation revealed reality ultimately seemed to be like.

If somebody starts off by assuming that reality is made out of objects, that’s just an assumption. From my postgraduate, professional background in philosophy I’m quite aware – as are professional philosophers generally -- that assuming that reality is made out of objects has much less effective explanatory value than assuming that reality is made out of something quite different. It’s not only in physics that such a metaphysics [i.e., such a choice of what to count as the most basic building blocks of existence] is hugely flawed and too narrow.

If you suppose that everything that’s ultimately real is an object, notice that what makes an object an object is that it’s closed off from every other object. You can’t even say that any relationship or connection or interaction is real, unless you say that it’s purely an object too, and therefore closed off too. The kind of picture of the world this inescapably leads to is a place where any coming together is, ultimately, accidental. It sets up an essential, existential state of competition between any two objects, not to mention individual people. It’s a world whose essence is alienation, anomie. Such a picture of the world is indeed what physics and science used to be based on, until quantum physics came on the scene. A significant part of the dumbing down program was to “sell” exactly such a view of reality as “the” reality – where each individual object, and hence person, is vastly powerless, in their very essence unavoidably alienated, and where entropy and randomness are the rule that governs the flow of their interactions and of most of the events around them.

I can’t really explain to you in non-technical philosophical terms why seeing the world as being made ultimately out of objects is a gigantically narrow view, compared to the alternatives. But for starters, because it’s so much narrower, it has no option other than to deny the existence of any phenomena or any reality that fails to fit into its narrow straitjacket. For example, in physics it would require the denial of all quantum phenomena. “Unfortunately”, physicists can’t do that, because it would involve denying the existence of all subatomic reality. So they’re forced to try to accommodate, or pretend to accommodate, a non-object-based metaphysics which they call “quantum theory”.

TraineeHuman

5th July 2013, 01:19

Who or what is this 'Source' you talk of

Assuming that your 49 levels do include all there is, Source would be a name for the highest levels, presumably levels 1 to 7.

It’s not a matter of explaining Source, but of experiencing/being it.

GarethBKK

5th July 2013, 02:24

It's part of the fascinating mystery tour to see comments on what's down the rabbit hole from people who have yet to enter it. Nothing wrong with that. It simply lets us know where people are on their own path. One of the many splendid things about Truth is the total absence of any need to defend it. In other words, where there is a defensive posture, we know we are dealing with thoughts, opinions and beliefs. Let go. Awake from the dream. Be in this world of form but not of it.

Keep it up TH; you are doing a fine job of describing experience which is ultimately ineffable.

Chester

5th July 2013, 04:24

Who or what is this 'Source' you talk of

It’s not a matter of explaining Source, but of experiencing/being it.

Assuming that your 49 levels do include all there is, Source would be a name for the highest levels, presumably levels 1 to 7.

Source (metaphorically) is the square root of a negative number.

"It" then moves through zero.

Then "it" becomes 3 by which 1 and 2 are created.

Only then is the next step for "Source" 7.

Unfortunately, this is only realized when one has tasted level 51... but if I could do it, so can anyone.

TraineeHuman

5th July 2013, 12:44

Keep it up TH; you are doing a fine job of describing experience which is ultimately ineffable.

Exactly. I expect people to penetrate to the meaning that lies deeper, beyond the concepts.

AwakeInADream

5th July 2013, 23:38

Hi All!:)

Here's a great meditation taken from "Living in the Heart" by Drunvalo Melchizedek, called "The Unity Breath" and given to Drunvalo by Sri Yukteswar in a vision. It may help in terms of being at one with things (on a very large scale).

The Unity Breath.

"You can be anywhere, but for me, I use an altar with a single candle
to focus my mental attention. I feel and know the presence of my teachers,
and we all begin to breathe together, as one."

Unify with the Divine Mother:

"Let your attention shift to a place on Earth that you feel is the most
beautiful place in the world. It could be anywhere—a mountain scene with
trees, lakes and rivers; or an arid, sandy desert with almost no life—whatever
you perceive as beautiful. See as much detail as you can.

"For example, if your place is a mountain scene, see the mountains and
the white, billowing clouds. See and sense the forest and the trees moving
with the wind. See the animals—the deer and elk, little rabbits and squirrels.
Look down and see the clear water of the rivers. Begin to feel love for
this place and for all of nature. Continue to grow into this space of love
with nature until your heart is beating with the warmth of your love."

"When the time feels right, send your love to the center of the Earth
using your intention so that Mother Earth can directly feel the love you
have for her. You can place your love into a small sphere to contain it and
send it to the Mother if you wish, but it is your intention that is so important.
Then wait, as a child. Wait until Mother Earth sends her love back
to you and you can feel it. You are her child, and I know she loves you.

"As your Mother's love enters your body, open completely, allowing this
love to move anywhere throughout your body. Let it enter all of your cells.
Let it move throughout your lightbody. Let it move wherever it wishes to
move. Feel this beautiful love your Mother has surrounded you with and
remain in this union with Mother Earth until it feels complete."

Unify with the Divine Father:

"At the right moment, which only you can know, without breaking the
love union with your Mother, look to your Father, to your Heavenly Father.
Look to the rest of creation beyond the Earth. Place your attention on a
night sky. See the Milky Way as it meanders across the heavens. Watch the
planets and the Moon swirl around you and the Earth. Feel the Sun hidden
beneath the Earth. Realize the incredible depth of space."

"Feel the love you have for the Father, for the Divine Father is the spirit
of all of creation, except the Divine Mother. And when this love becomes so
great that it just can't stay inside you any longer, let it move into the heavens
with your intention. Again, you can send your love into the heavens
inside a small sphere, if you wish."

"Once your love has been sent into the
heavens to the Divine Father, again you wait; you wait for the Father to
send his love back to you. And of course, he will always do so. You are his
child forever, and the Divine Father will always, always love you. And just
like with the Mother's love, when you feel the love of the Divine Father
enter your being, let it move anywhere it wants to. It is your Father's love,
and it is pure."

The Holy Trinity Is Alive:

"At this moment something that rarely happens is manifesting: the
Holy Trinity is alive on Earth. The Divine Mother and the Divine Father
are joined with you in pure love and you, the Divine Child, complete
the Mangle."

Drunvalo said that from this state you can know (and become one with) God/Source directly by opening your heart.

I believe that I stumbled upon this 'Holy Trinity' state of consciousness myself a few years back when I was able to have an experience of Source, although I've never been able to repeat it in quite the same way since. I think I will keep trying with this meditation for a while though. I'm getting very fond of expanding my awareness out into the cosmos.:)

EDIT: Hi FreedFox!:) I think this meditation might be good for you also, because it may be relevant to the meaning of your dream, in which I think the tornadoes were symbolic of 'Bridging Heaven and Earth'. Since you have already experienced Mother Earth profoundly, perhaps you need to reach out also to Father Universe?(for balance) Possibly symbolized in your dream by the man in the clouds?

TraineeHuman

6th July 2013, 16:45

There’s an important reason why I’d like everyone to keep doing the exercise of being at one with things and situations and people. Basically, it’s because the exercise will keep breaking the “spell” our conditioning has put us in that we know all about reality already. And that what we don’t know isn’t really worth knowing about anyway.

This exercise keeps plunging you into the unknown – into the Now moment, if you like.

It will take away the security you thought you needed – but that’s the point. This really is a different way of knowing – knowing from “the inside”. Because it’s different, it keeps plunging us into unknowing, which we may secretly find shocking but we need to keep doing. It’s a more dynamic and honest way of knowing – and of being constantly reminded of how hugely much we don’t know.

TraineeHuman

7th July 2013, 13:41

You can’t learn anything new – “in” or “out of” the physical body – unless you keep on letting go, it seems to me. And what’s the thing you need to let go of? Pretty much, it’s whatever version of reality you consider you know – including your beliefs.

The one thing you don’t let go of is letting go, itself. Plus whatever it is that automatically comes with letting go.

One thing you’ll eventually notice, if you do keep on letting go, is that you’re not separate, at all, from everybody else and everything else.

There are actually a number of different means by which you can come to notice this. You can do it through proper meditation, or rigorous self-watching and self-enquiry. Or letting go of the entire matrix and all your conditioning, as far as you can.

But the exercise of being at one with is yet another way to do this. That’s why I’ve been posting on this subject for many days now. Another way to describe the exercise of being at one with is to say, just simply experience directly – as far as you can – that you are the same as everyone and everything else. Just keep doing that.

You may object that you can’t do it. But I’d like to suggest you can. I suggest it’s simply a matter of being willing. Willing to look at things in that way. Pardon the cliché, but I suggest it’s as simple as taking the red pill and not the blue one. Or like being willing to turn left instead of right. Just do it.

Ray claims he has directly experienced that any level of reality that there is contains space, and matter. I can’t really argue with anyone’s genuine direct experience. But, unfortunately, I do find his statement puzzling, because the experience of being identical with everyone and everything else is an experience of no space. It’s an experience of space not even existing “between’ you and anything “other” – to the extent that you fully are in that experience.

The most vivid and real experiences I have had in my life, and continue to have, involve such an absence of space completely.

To me, such an absence of space, of any ultimate separation, is the beginning and basis of rationality, and of what I assume Ray would want to call “objectivity”.

As far as I understand, the whole problem of the ego and indeed of irrationality and lack of full “objectivity” comes down ultimately to the mind’s/ego’s artificial creation of space, between oneself and anything or anyone that’s “other”.

That’s why I’m recommending that people try the flipside of that, as a daily exercise. Let’s celebrate the sameness of everyone and everything. Be open to it. It’s fun. Not only that … well, I’ll leave it up to you all to discover how rewarding it can be as well. Yes, it’s also a kind of death, a psychological death. So you were looking for a rabbit hole to liberation? Try this out.

Of course, words on their own are incomplete. They’re just words. They can always be misinterpreted, or otherwise found inadequate. You have to have the insight/inspiration, the experience, that cuts much deeper than words.

Two final points. If you are going beyond all space, then I suggest you’re also going beyond time – or certainly beyond the kind of physical time we (think we) know. So, maybe being at one isn’t some technique, that you gradually learn over time. Maybe it’s there straight away, directly. Maybe it’s timeless. Still, it may take time for you to learn to remove whatever you may believe could be inhibiting you from doing the exercise fully, perhaps.

Secondly, if you can, try learning to stay with the experience of non-separation throughout the entire day. Of course you have a separate body and so on, but if you can, keep an awareness of non-separation within your consciousness.

The part of you that isn’t separate is what the Higher Mind is, as far as I understand.

Can you go more towards “identifying” with that non-separation, and less with your own particular “identity”?

Freed Fox

7th July 2013, 17:41

I'll share a few things here regarding 'being at one' which I've experienced recently, in trying to consciously elicit the feeling...

I was in my yard yesterday morning, and across the street from my house there is a water tower where ranchers often fill large tanks to take out to their cattle. Well, there was a man over there, filling his water tank. He was standing in place and facing the away from where I was, and had been for several minutes. So I singled him out and attempted being at one with him. No more than about 20 seconds passed before he (seemingly for no reason) walked to his pickup and out of view. I might have felt kind of creepy actually, staring at him like that ( :lol ), except I'm positive he could not have seen me from where he was.

Later that evening, I was sitting in a small room and noticed that there were two house flies in there with me. I decided to try to be 'at one' with them, one at a time. I guess this decision came in part from the fact that these are creatures which I used to really look down on as nothing more than pests. At any rate, when I made that decision they were both pretty stationary, not buzzing all around as they often times do. As a novice, I decided to just try one at a time. Well, this produced a phenomenon which I'm quite certain wasn't coincidental (certain, because I remained there for about half an hour, alternating back and forth, and observing the effect over and over again with perfect consistency).

From where I was sitting, if I was watching one fly, I could see the other in my peripheral view. As I mentioned, both seemed to be quite still. However, when I focused my attention upon one, within a matter of seconds it would start flying around in their haphazard way. I would stick with it for a few moments at least, until all the movement became distracting or hard to follow. During this time, the other fly would have been still for the entire duration, until I turn my attention toward it, that is. At that point I would observe the same kind of behavior. Back and forth, like clockwork, eliciting movement from the fly after no more than 5 or 6 seconds probably, at most. This is despite the fact that I made no motion or noise myself the entire time, and the flies should have had no indication that I was watching one or the other. I thought about the 'sense of being stared at', and wondered if this wasn't the same, or a similar mechanism. At the very least it seemed that focusing my awareness upon one of them somehow energized them, or made them nervous maybe?

Not sure if I should pay any mind at all to the above, but for as long as I repeated this 'experiment', the results seemed pretty obvious.

Now, last night I had a dream which struck me as incredibly profound. Unlike most such dreams, my memory of it is lacking in many details. However - and also unlike other dreams - this didn't strike me as a symbolic projection, or a message/lesson in the form of fantasy. Somehow, it struck me as something incredibly important, but I'm not sure exactly what it means...

-------

I was perhaps in my forties or fifties, helping two other people fix this large machine. The machine is hard to describe... It was very long, and had perhaps five or six metal surfaces coming out from around the center, such that it might look a little like a fan if facing it from one of the far ends. The thing was turning, a bit like a fan but slower, and for whatever reason we had to fix it while in motion. (If I were more mechanically inclined, I'm sure I could better describe it...)

I was tasked by one of the other two to tighten a couple of screws, but because of the constant motion of the thing I wasn't able to do so, at all. I got somewhat frustrated, but became more apologetic than anything, describing difficulties in my life which were making it hard for me to focus at the time. At that point, one of the other two (a man with a short, dark beard), said something about desire and when he did, things became very intense.

Now, I truly wish I could remember all that was said... He spoke shortly before the following quote, and then a little more after it. However, what I can remember is the following;

"There shall be no greater enemy of man than desire. For even if he is desired..."

(I really felt that the rest of what he said was important, but alas...)

Basically as soon as he started talking, I broke down into tears. There was a powerful sadness, or perhaps regret, or maybe even a strange elation in the fact that in that moment I realized that nothing in my life was anything which I desired. Now, this is a bit strange because I wasn't exactly myself in this dream. It is rather rare that I appear older than I really am in a dream, but moreover my 'life' upon which I was reflecting therein was not the life I currently live. It could, however, be analogous in some ways...

As I wept, almost uncontrollably, something incredible started to happen. Around me there was a light, which was changing. It was very much as if the sun was rapidly rising through a window nearby, flooding the interior in its glow. Even more profound was that it was not only light which was dawning upon the scene, but somehow everything was changing, transforming. What had been one large room before became a cluster of connected rooms, opened to one another. A nearby wall, for instance, turned from a beige color to a shade of dark blue. Somehow as these things changed, they seemed to become more real somehow. I saw the third person, who had also changed and was curled up on the floor and crying (but from what specific emotion, I do not know). It dawned on me in that moment, somehow, this was the Holy Trinity and I was gazing upon the Holy Ghost.

I felt tinges of lucidity creeping into my dream consciousness at this point, but did not become fully lucid. Instead, upon making the 'Trinity' connection, something else started happening, and very fast. This part is brief, but very hard to describe. I started to become one with the Holy Ghost (and, I presume the other part of the Trinity, although I did not see it). The way this started happening, was that we both arose and ended up in the lotus position, and started floating toward one another in exactly the manner that Itzhak Bentov illustrated (the illustration shown toward the end of his video in this thread). As we drew closer to becoming one, the light and transformation intensified, and suddenly I heard a man screaming somewhere. The scream too increased in intensity and actually forced me awake (just before we were truly about to merge).

-------

I did not record this dream. Instead I laid in bed, staring into the darkness, while my mind actually reeled somewhat from the experience. I would not regard it as a nightmare, of course, but on some deep level I was shaken, and left in awe.

Freed Fox

7th July 2013, 19:48

Oh, and also thank you AwakeinADream for the thought/consideration above. I may very well try that (particularly in light of last night's dream), though to be honest I have never been very comfortable with guided/focused meditations in the past (for whatever reason)...

AwakeInADream

7th July 2013, 22:17

Hi FreedFox!:) WOW! What an amazing dream/experience you had! I've had similar myself, where I wake up disappointed because I think I've forgotten something very valuable and important that has been transmitted to me. What I've come to realize is, that this information is never really lost. It remains within and gradually filters through until it transforms your world in a very real way (perhaps even so gradually that you may not even notice at first). It's like you've downloaded something which you can later read at your leisure. I think your dream was both a breakthrough and a blessing.:)

P.S. You don't have to see the Drunvalo thing as a guided meditation, just try it like you did with the flies, in your own way. Be at one with the Earth, then at one with the Universe, with love, and that's it. I was doing this naturally anyway before I read this meditation as an extension of the 'feeling the aliveness' exercise.:)

P.P.S Drunvalo also said in the book I quoted that you can access and send love to the Universe through the center of our Sun, since it is connected to all the Sun's in the Universe. Being at one with the Sun is also quite an experience to have.:)

TraineeHuman

8th July 2013, 13:28

last night I had a dream which struck me as incredibly profound. Unlike most such dreams, my memory of it is lacking in many details. However - and also unlike other dreams - this didn't strike me as a symbolic projection, or a message/lesson in the form of fantasy. Somehow, it struck me as something incredibly important, but I'm not sure exactly what it means...

-------

I was tasked by one of the other two to tighten a couple of screws, but because of the constant motion of the thing I wasn't able to do so, at all. I got somewhat frustrated, but became more apologetic than anything, describing difficulties in my life which were making it hard for me to focus at the time.

I haven’t mentioned this before, but I’m pretty sure I was present at/in some of the lucid dreams/journeys that have been described at some points in this thread – including this lucid dream. It’s been quite amusing to me to have read what I believed were a couple of descriptions of myself or some of my OB friends.

I did experience some of the extremely strong sadness you felt – which seemed to me to be sadness combined with the gigantic nausea that comes as part of the (physical) birth trauma. Good! You can handle – and therefore break free of – extremely strong energies, extremely strong emotions.

If I may say so, I’m pretty sure the reason you don’t remember everything is that there was so much there that was painful to bear. But my impression was that you did break through it, after all.

At that point, one of the other two (a man with a short, dark beard), said something about desire and when he did, things became very intense.

Now, I truly wish I could remember all that was said... He spoke shortly before the following quote, and then a little more after it. However, what I can remember is the following;

"There shall be no greater enemy of man than desire. For even if he is desired..."

(I really felt that the rest of what he said was important, but alas...)

Basically as soon as he started talking, I broke down into tears. There was a powerful sadness, or perhaps regret, or maybe even a strange elation in the fact that in that moment I realized that nothing in my life was anything which I desired.

Guess what? I believe some OB friends or guides of mine were present too. What that friend of mine said to you about desire being the whole root of unhappiness has been a big theme in my own experience, actually. About two or three years ago I somehow eventually decided that if I dropped all wanting – in the sense of desire or expectation --, then I’d be pretty much free of unhappiness. And it worked. And it’s lasted from then till now. I made some posts about it back then.

That friend of mine who was speaking in antiquated English may very well have acted as my OB teacher and guided me to that realization. I don’t know for certain.

Mind you, there are many other “paths” to freedom from unhappiness. (Well, they’re “pathless paths” because the ego or the mind can’t be what travels down them.) For instance, another path is to stop creating a self-image that gets hurt, or can get hurt. Such a “me’ is artificial anyway, it’s not really you but something constructed by your mind or ego. Some people mistakenly believe that ultimate liberation means necessarily disappearing altogether as you merge into everythingness. No! It just means to stop creating images of “me” through your mind and mistaking them for who/what you really are – which is ultimately beyond all images.

I'll post some further comments about this extraordinary lucid dream tomorrow.

soleil

8th July 2013, 17:32

hi all, i must say i am glad that i was on holiday last week, and missed all the drama.
ya it was drama.

i'm also not offended. however, i do LOVE that we (or as i thought) were openly discussing spirituality such as the HS, philosophy such as reincarnation/past lives, and obe experiences and how to etc.

if some parts of these topics are not going to be openly admitted in this thread, well then that sucks. and its too bad, as potential topics brought out of a persons post that would/could be beneficial to share could/would be discounted, or potentially cause embarrassment of the teacher.

i wont be a stranger here, as i am working to develop myself spiritually, and appreciate the food for thought. IMO textbook teaching can be good. however where are the experiments? and the potential learning of mistakes or successes?
i'd think the best students are those who find out for themselves. should we not share that here? and if we can, in what capacity? what should not be considered part of the conversation?

perhaps some clarification on the future path of this thread can be established too, so that we can either divvy our attention into possibly 3 threads and leave it up to us to connect the dots....or possibly incorporate posts on topic, in the same thread that is and has been doing amazing? (im referring to this thread)

im really not hating, and im not mad. i really want this thread to work out, and keep continuing. and i'm brilliant 99% of the time. ;)

[edit]
jake id love to read any thread you may possibly post, that encompass OBE, and ET's. astral travelling, flight school, and maybe trouble shooting. if we dont plan on doing that here, i'd like also take the time to partake in that thread discussion if you do. as well as this one.

--back to topic.

TraineeHuman

10th July 2013, 11:05

Basically as soon as he started talking, I broke down into tears. There was a powerful sadness, or perhaps regret, or maybe even a strange elation in the fact that in that moment I realized that nothing in my life was anything which I desired. Now, this is a bit strange because I wasn't exactly myself in this dream. It is rather rare that I appear older than I really am in a dream, but moreover my 'life' upon which I was reflecting therein was not the life I currently live. It could, however, be analogous in some ways...
...
I did not record this dream. Instead I laid in bed, staring into the darkness, while my mind actually reeled somewhat from the experience. I would not regard it as a nightmare, of course, but on some deep level I was shaken, and left in awe.

To heal our psychological scars from the past, it seems to be usually necessary for us to partially re-experience them, in a detached way. One variation is to somehow take a detached look at the likeliest “us” at some future point. Then change ourselves now, so that we won’t be that person. It certainly sounds like this is what you were doing here, Freed Fox.

I’ve done it a few times. However, in many cases it happened when I looked in the mirror and saw the future “me” in, for example 20 years’ time from the date when I looked. I should caution everyone that looking at yourself too intensely in the mirror is a very effective way to go insane, certainly if practiced very much. But this just happened a number of times while I was combing my hair.

I guess that, through energy work, I’ve learnt to kind of automatically see the face a person change to how they looked at one or more younger ages. These ages will be ones where they got stuck in some re-traumatisation that’s still subconsciously repeating over and over and controlling them now. Or, occasionally, it’s a face of them in the future. This kind of seeing of people or oneself in the future or the past is very similar to the “astral sight” discussed much earlier in the thread – the ability to “turn on” one’s vision while astral traveling. Unfortunately, that ability can take a few years to develop.

Anyway, I remember at age 30 and then a few times into my thirties looking at myself at age 50, and at age 60. Initially my hair had gone quite white by 50. I didn’t feel comfortable with that. But it was more – well, the whole (likeliest) timeline that I would be living at 50 and 60. Like you, Freed Fox, I was looking at that timeline and I could swear that person just wasn’t me really. It had to be some unfortunate clone of me!

So I somehow changed myself deeply pronto, to make the timeline better. I did this a number of times over a few years. Each time, my future had much less white hair in it, though of course that was only a superficial indicator. Today, at 63, I have only the tiniest trace of white on my head. Whew.

Looking at, and hence, ideally, dissolving a “picture” of oneself is, I guess, something that one does OB. Or, to be more accurate, in my case I was bilocated while doing it. I was “only” [that’s snigger quotes, folks] partly OB and partly also in my body and able to access my rational intellect if necessary. I could turn the latter on or off as needed.

When one looks very deeply at one’s face from the past or the currently likeliest future in this way, one looks very deeply “inside”. Which means one is doing this through and with and by one’s Higher Mind.

TraineeHuman

10th July 2013, 15:24

As I wept, almost uncontrollably, something incredible started to happen. Around me there was a light, which was changing. It was very much as if the sun was rapidly rising through a window nearby, flooding the interior in its glow. Even more profound was that it was not only light which was dawning upon the scene, but somehow everything was changing, transforming. What had been one large room before became a cluster of connected rooms, opened to one another. A nearby wall, for instance, turned from a beige color to a shade of dark blue. Somehow as these things changed, they seemed to become more real somehow. I saw the third person, who had also changed and was curled up on the floor and crying (but from what specific emotion, I do not know). It dawned on me in that moment, somehow, this was the Holy Trinity and I was gazing upon the Holy Ghost.

I felt tinges of lucidity creeping into my dream consciousness at this point, but did not become fully lucid. Instead, upon making the 'Trinity' connection, something else started happening, and very fast. This part is brief, but very hard to describe. I started to become one with the Holy Ghost (and, I presume the other part of the Trinity, although I did not see it). ... on some deep level I was shaken, and left in awe.

You appear to have had a genuine experience of tri-unity, or trinity, if you like. Certainly it’s hard to experience the Higher Mind fully without noticing that it seems to have three different “sides” to it. In a sense, you can normally only approach it from one of those “sides” at a time. I don’t right now want to go into the technicalities of what those three aspects might best be called. But if we remember that the Higher Mind has no problem holding many totally contradictory points of view at the same time, for instance, or that it also sees all things as being essentially the same or united, then clearly in some way it’s too expansive to grasp in one hit.

I don’t know if what you mean by saying you merged with “the Holy Ghost” in this dream means you encountered Source, or the divine worlds. But your past encounter with Gaia certainly read like it was along such lines.

Some readers may be skeptical, and suspect that you or I or whoever is being carried away in some kind of fantasy. But on the contrary, I keep finding my jaw dropping when I read material which strongly suggests that some members are continually having deep encounters with reality particularly in their lucid or semi-lucid dreams. I find myself overwhelmed with admiration at how deeply into reality you penetrate in most of your lucid dreams, Freed Fox. Then we have AwakeInADream, who has manifested an ideal job in an incredibly tough jobs marketplace by becoming intensely aware of and working with his Higher Mind. This is real, folks, even if you’re a sceptic. Then we have Eram, who expresses himself in a quieter way but I feel is equally so utterly brave at facing his demons. The more full-on you face them, the shorter the fear lasts and also then the pain. And I suggest you can eventually get virtually beyond both fear and pain too, by penetrating to their root and not buying into it. Then we have teradactyl, who seems to never have a moment’s hesitation about taking the plunge and taking action. That’s what I would call a brave heart. And that’s only the four who have recently been posting the most detail about the personal journeys of growth you are going through. I'm very conscious of how there are and have been a number of others, if not more. I’ve found it inspiring and admirable and have learnt considerably, and I’ve been surprised at how seriously and intensely and efficiently some members are willing to take the most precious issue of achieving huge personal growth. Which I guess everyone should, but I still keep being pleasantly surprised. So many of you guys are genuine heroes where it really counts – which I guess we all should be.

AwakeInADream

11th July 2013, 17:02

soleil

11th July 2013, 17:10

aw TH. thanks for your feedback on our path's, from your observation.
if i may add some new experiences, here goes:
two days ago i was in the shower and decided to shower meditate. i never have 'time' so i do it when im walking or doing mindless things. anyways i did the 12d shield as i like that one, it connects me to gaia and then to my HS (who i started calling grace). i silently prayed to gaia and sent my love to her.

allow me to stop here, to explain that this meditation is so new to me. i dont normally pray for things that i want or need, as i feel i can manifest them myself. anyways i decided to pray for gaia.

instantly i felt SO incredibly sad. happy in a light hopeful way, but essentially pretty sad. i cried in there to release some charge for gaia.

again, normally i also dont cry - but im letting go to let go of charge.

then i did some blank meditations, and i instantly saw some intense circles, one after the other after the other moving away from me. i tried to go through them, but they were moving away from me faster than i could move to them. they were orange, with a black center. i decided to discontinue as i was standing in there, and afraid to fall and hit my head.

now to last night, i did a prayer to the universe... i prayed for brazil, syria, egypt and turkey, i prayed for the people, and the land, and their wellbeing, their freedom, their peace.
i know there are more countries that need prayers. these countries were in my thoughts of where we can start seeing peaceful revolutions.
this is what im doing at the moment. good vibes to all!

[edit] oh and a small update, that might be my biggest feat. i forgave my mom.
shes been watching my dd this week, and being quite restrained in her "is-ness".
im going to work to not cause a communication break here, and still assert my self, in a calm way. her worries do not worry me etc and so far so good.:lol::confused:

Freed Fox

12th July 2013, 22:53

Thank you TH, and everyone. I'm still kind of blown away, and busy processing it all...
Between Awake's dream job and teradactyl's working reconciliation with her mother, I feel it's safe to say good things are happening!

Much love everyone. :)

TraineeHuman

13th July 2013, 02:18

When I experienced Source (I must be 2 or 3 years by now, and I called it 'The Mind of God' back then), I also was aware that it was Tri-une in nature (and I wasn't coming from a religious perspective). So it amazes me to find that others are independently finding this same 'Trinity' concept (I like the word Tri-Unity TH!:)) to be real and tangible by direct experience. It was quite a joy for me to read FreedFox's account of the Trinity. It made my head tingle.:)

Although the higher Mind seems to be tri-une, it isn’t clear to me that Source is. I’ll briefly describe one of the three aspects of Higher Mind in my next post. I don't doubt that you had a genuine experience of Source, Awake. But normally we first need to master the Higher Mind. One of the most common things the ego does when it feels its existence is partly threatened is as follows. It effectively retreats to your solar plexus area, your belly, where we have the greatest concentration of nerves in the body, and can therefore feel emotion the most intensely. There it seeks to create physical pain and a feeling of unhappiness, in a bid to make us feel overcome with misery. Quite often it will even concentrate that painful and hurt energy into a round ball there. If you don’t succumb, I’ve found that seems to literally dissolve a small part of the ego. When people talk of wanting to access Source directly, I think to myself: how many decades have you spent dissolving the ego as it takes a “back against the wall” stand in your belly? The trouble is, if you want to unleash access to extraordinary abilities and power, are you ready to use it responsibly and safely?

I have my own theory regarding what Horus and Lucifer and other such nasty beings are. In this thread and other threads in the past I’ve talked about how, after we die, eventually we discard our (emotional, and mental) astral “bodies” or “envelopes” eventually. Ideally, we discard them at the time of physical death. But these two “bodies” are togerther a complex electromagnetic field made out of all the thoughts (electric impulses) and emotions (magnetizations) we had during our lives. That field certainly isn’t “the soul” in the sense of the Higher Mind. But it lives on for centuries, or even for a few millennia, and believes it’s the real you. It contains all the emotions and conceptual ideas you had or knew, and it has a significant level of awareness and intelligence, even though it’s soulless, and therefore in effect a type of robot Nature has created with your help.

I’ve observed how shortly after physical death a person discards at least their attachments to many negative or more petty features of that electromagnetic field. This means they do realize that they aren’t the same as it. However, it’s common for many people to continue to feel attached to some features of that field after their death, even though it breaks free of them energetically.

Now consider what happens after the greatest of the benevolent Gods has completed a physical incarnation. That great being’s discarded personality lives on, but it’s stuck in the astral world. It thinks it knows that it’s still the greatest of all. (Doesn’t Lucifer claim that, I believe?) Being extraordinarily intelligence, after a while it determines that it’s not immortal after all, as it had supposed. Not only that, but for centuries it notices that it can’t change in a positive sense. It’s just stuck in a kind of fixed identity, even though it has many memories of having been a supreme master at not getting caught in any identity. The problem eventually becomes, how can it continue to recharge itself with life force, in the hope of maybe even cobbling together eternal existence for itself. Is this where child sacrifices, and other incredibly bizarre uses of life energy or sex energy come from?

It’s also the case that after each of us dies our personality’s field continues in a similar way. Eventually it starts to disintegrate and get corrupted, probably centuries later. Is that corrupt form the same thing as what we know as demonic beings, I wonder? My understanding is that the benevolent Gods found a way three or four thousand years ago to put all such demonic beings into a kind of prison in the astral world. And that since then, a living human could only interact with them through practicing black magic or through taking drugs. Anyway, that’s my theory on how there can be such a thing as negative so-called divine beings.

TraineeHuman

13th July 2013, 08:28

One of the three faces of the Higher Mind can be described in various ways, and it would take lengthy discussion to begin to cover the topic in a fully balanced way. One way to describe one of the faces is to say that it involves the use of intention.

This, of course, is closely linked to topics such as timelines and manifestation and free will/ determinism, for instance. I don’t know if Awake knows/remembers fully what his Higher Mind really did – as distinct, perhaps, from what he may currently believe he did? – to manifest a wonderful job. Maybe he does indeed understand and thoroughly remember it all in great detail -- which would be great to hear. But I’m certainly interested in shining the spotlight on the whole subject of the “descension” of intention – of bringing it into the physical world and having an impact and an ongoing life there.

The Higher Mind isn’t a mind in the sense of something like our ordinary intellect. But it does utilize ways of knowing or understanding. These ways are obviously different, then, from how people in our society are supposed to “normally” operate.

I suggest the “normal” way is to be a kind of puppet of your thoughts and feelings, though also to control your thoughts and feelings to some degree. Even then, unfortunately, you probably remain a puppet of your controlled thoughts and feelings. And your thoughts (if they are truly “yours”) are what ultimately controls and carries out your choices – unless you have something higher that can make thoughts and the mind its servant.

I guess I see almost any kind of knowing that’s different from the “normal” kingdom of your thoughts as some type of “knowing from the inside”. I guess to me that expression is virtually interchangeable with “being at one with”. The important thing is to find ways to awaken it in yourself, which you do by practice, by doing. Certainly, intention is one example of such a thing that you can learn to keep “switching on” and practicing. I once learnt that I can be an effective public speaker purely by using intention – by creating a kind of telepathic field of intention and including every member of my audience in it.
Into that field I can place thoughts such as that I’m a great public speaker – and then people swallow it, or maybe it’s that I swallow it too and I take advantage of my having telepathically softened up the audience in advance. So, can you folks go out there and practice simply holding a single thought steady and strong, and kind of putting into others’ heads in a way that doesn’t interfere with them in any harmful way?

This brings me to another way to describe this face of the Higher Mind. Ray has written about “Causal” consciousness, and scientology (probably borrowing from Hinduism, ultimately) talks of the desirability of being “at cause” in a situation. I consider the word “cause” is a little misleading here. Certainly this face of the Higher Mind is concerned with being the opposite of a victim or of a passive sufferer. But there are two problems I have with that word. Firstly, it isn’t true that the universe is governed by a universal law of cause and effect. Let me explain why. Let’s say you have a pet dog whom you rarely see standing still. In that case, whenever your dog comes towards you you’ll (almost) always see your dog’s head before its tail. You’ll see the head always being followed by the tail. Someone might say that the head apparently “causes” the tail in that situation. But of course it doesn’t. Even though, in that situation, the head appears first and it’s invariably followed by the appearance of the tail. So, we see that it’s more accurate to say that the head and the tail are in some kind of close interrelationship or interconnection – and not that one is the cause of the other.

My second problem with the word “cause” is that you can’t be truly “at cause” unless at that moment you have a complete and thorough understanding of all the “effects” your actions are likely to have. What’s desirable is not blind dominance but pro-active contribution to your environment, hopefully improving it in some way.

There are other words too. I guess “will” is one of them. Again, it’s not a matter of coming from effort or ignorance.

animovado

13th July 2013, 22:34

Hi all, hi TH,

almost two weeks ago i mentioned a dream i had and that i would like to post it.
Unfortunately i haven't had the feeling at this time, that this thread is a save place
for me to talk about my dreams and their meanings to me.
But now, after a stormy weather, the air is purified and the conversation here turns again into this constructive atmosphere that attracted me initially to this thread.

There appears a topic in the last posts, which i think is very important to talk about and, IMO relates to the dream i had.
One aspect of being is more masculine and if its not in balance with its complement
it can lead to a situation we have seen in the story of the sorcerer's apprentice.
Take care. Be aware. :-)

Here are the few pictures of the dream i had, and TH, i don't know if it was an inspired dream or not, but the way the "brush" of imagination was conducted, very sketchy and efficient, led me to this assumption.

'I am in a hangar aside a plane and as its jet engine starts i feel the need to cower, because of the vast power that pushes the plane in the direction of the open gates.
I follow it alongside and shield myself at one of the gates as the plane leaves the hangar. I change my position to the other side and like to cover visually behind some boxes, because i don't like to be seen by some men that are leaving the hangar in a loose row. The last one is looking in my direction, he's wearing some reddish clothes instead of the others that are wearing something bluish. But is he really looking at me and noticing?
I can't see his face clearly to see what he might see, and as i'm staring and waiting what is happening next, i'm getting more and more.....
awake.'

I went to the bathroom and was still staying with the pictures of that dream and was looking at my emotional reactions.

So, when is the time to start again the engines, are the tanks full enough of trust to leave the hangar inside the cockpit to face every pattern of my skies with the radar of innocence and the beacon of sagacity?

Am i really tired enough of paper planes? To fly them don't hurts, but...
:-)

TraineeHuman

14th July 2013, 07:37

two days ago i was in the shower and decided to shower meditate.

I understand your height is at least a little shorter than average. That probably means that when you shower you have the water falling down from above your head so that it passes through your oversoul chakra – about 7 to 9 inches above the top of the head and almost 3 inches wide – and also over the energy field that’s around your body several inches outside your skin. Because water is extremely conductive of electromagnetic energy, that automatically cleanses you psychically. It’s also in itself a very powerful form of psychic protection indeed – as long as you’re in the shower with the water running from straight above your head. Unfortunately, though, taking too long a shower is bad for you on a physical level because it brings your body’s pH level down.

One reason I don’t often go astral traveling these days is that I can simply focus my attention on my oversoul area. That’s like a special eye that sees into or connects with OB realms.

Well, what you call “blank meditations” are the only ones I would prefer to call “meditation”. The others are what I would prefer to call visualizations, or affirmations. True meditation, as I understand it, is such a precious thing, but such a lost art today, I find.

And the way to what I consider proper meditation is to not look at any mental pictures etc etc that may come up, but to let them go fully. If you don’t let them go, you’re doing an OBE and not what I would call meditation. I just wanted to make that clear, in case at some point you or someone else comes to appreciate how powerful and how important genuine (“blank”) meditation is.

then i did some blank meditations, and i instantly saw some intense circles, one after the other after the other moving away from me. i tried to go through them, but they were moving away from me faster than i could move to them. they were orange, with a black center. i decided to discontinue as i was standing in there, and afraid to fall and hit my head.

I believe the orange circle you saw is indeed linked to Gaia. Whenever I have encountered Gaia “full size”, as the planet’s consciousness, her energy field has been a bright orange with an amber tinge, extending in every direction to the horizon and beyond, to up to about three feet high from the ground’s surface – or from the surface you are standing on, which in one case was on the fourth floor of a building. When I’ve viewed the same energy field in the fourth dimension, it has looked pale brown with a slight reddish tinge, and has extended to about ten feet below the planet’s surface as well.

When I was first learning to astral travel I’d see either the small orange ring which is about two feet in diameter, or the blue ring of the same size, and I’d pass through one of these to get out of the physical. It sounds like you were passing through the orange ring, teradactyl. No wonder you felt dizzy, because your consciousness was going out of the physical. If you want to know how I learnt to bilocate, one of the ways I did it was by practicing going through that ring but also retaining full awareness of my physical body. I practiced until I didn’t feel dizzy any more while holding onto both states at the same time.

Much as the orange ring is a small-scale connection to Gaia, so, as I understand it, the blue ring is a small-scale connection to Source or the universe. In Hinduism they say you can find God/ Source in four places: in the heavenly universal worlds, in the universe, in the oversoul, and in the tiny blue “flame” that is the energy of your thymus gland. The thymus gland is located at the front of the middle of your chest. It lies in front of the top right-hand corner of your heart. It keeps your body’s life-energy strong (and is linked to past lifetimes). Psychic attacks on a person come in primarily through the center of the chest, because the thymus gland is, so to speak, the sentry that needs to be mugged before any thieves can sneak in.

i forgave my mom.
... her worries do not worry me etc and so far so good.:lol::confused:

I'll bet that will make a big impact on her for the better too. Her ego may not want to show it outwardly, but I'm sure that impact will still be there all right.

TraineeHuman

14th July 2013, 08:28

I said at the beginning of this thread that in spirituality I consider it’s essential to find a way to achieve true detachment. What I meant by this was a way to liberate ourselves, partially or even totally, from the control of the (ordinary) mind and the ego (the “emotional mind”).

How do you do it? That, Dr. Watson, is the question. How do we take on the position of the witness and, in the memorable words of Ron, become the one “who’s in charge here”?

Notice that, ironically, it’s through separating our consciousness from the mind and ego that we come into and activate and come to be our Higher Mind. But our Higher Mind sees and understands wholistically, by identifying with all things, by seeing an underlying sameness instead of separation [= space].

Here I’d like to insert a quote from the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, just to reassure Awake and any others that non-separativeness, even right into Source itself, doesn’t mean annihilation:

There is no annihilation of the seeing of the seer,
nor of the speaking of the speaker,
nor of the knowing of the knower,
for they are indestructible.
But it is not a second one, or one other than and separate from himself, that he sees,
or speaks to, or hears, or knows.

A question I’d like to ask you all at this point is, have you ever noticed how the way we are educated to look at the world and everything in it is a totally separative way? And, secondly, does such a way of seeing – or, rather, not seeing – even make sense, ultimately? For in reality, is it not plain that we aren’t totally separate from everything?

Yes, there are degrees of separation, but equally there is contact with things and beings. And do we not greatly prize various kinds of intimacy – with other people, with pets, with nature, with the universe? Don’t we consider we are more truly being and finding our true selves, our true nature, through such intimacy? Don’t we live in a world primarily of open and interactive and dynamic systems, not closed and static and inert ones?

And why is direct contact and direct experience so essential for us to understand things and to live fully? Surely, direct contact proves that knowledge based on total separation isn’t the only kind of knowledge? We are not just objects, nor is the entire universe made out of objects.

The problem is, our entire modern and postmodern Western culture and education system is based on teaching us that all knowing is indirect, and therefore chimeral, -- because, so we are taught, we can only know on the basis of a total separation. As the great philosopher Kant famously said, this means we never do get to know things-in-themselves, i.e. the full reality that’s behind all the appearance.

Well, how about the possibility of partial separation? Isn’t it highly obvious we have at least that? If you’re following these obvious points, then isn’t it perhaps time you started admitting to yourself that you can and do know some things through at least a partial identification with them? Paradoxically, such an identification is also detached, to the extent that it’s not ego-based.

Such a way of knowing has been denied to you, officially anyway, from the days of primary school on. That’s why I suggest it may be time to consciously practice a new way of knowing. I’ve spent years learning to do that. After all, the word “consciousness” comes from the Latin prefix “con”, which means the opposite of separative, and “sci-“, which is the root of the Latin word for knowing or knowledge.

TraineeHuman

15th July 2013, 06:27

'I am in a hangar aside a plane and as its jet engine starts i feel the need to cower, because of the vast power that pushes the plane in the direction of the open gates.
I follow it alongside and shield myself at one of the gates as the plane leaves the hangar. I change my position to the other side and like to cover visually behind some boxes, because i don't like to be seen by some men that are leaving the hangar in a loose row. The last one is looking in my direction, he's wearing some reddish clothes instead of the others that are wearing something bluish. But is he really looking at me and noticing?
I can't see his face clearly to see what he might see, and as i'm staring and waiting what is happening next, i'm getting more and more.....
awake.'

I went to the bathroom and was still staying with the pictures of that dream and was looking at my emotional reactions.

So, when is the time to start again the engines, are the tanks full enough of trust to leave the hangar inside the cockpit to face every pattern of my skies with the radar of innocence and the beacon of sagacity?

Am i really tired enough of paper planes? To fly them don't hurts, but...
:-)

You seem to have described your dream with quite exceptional clarity, animovado. You’ve also managed to provide an interpretation of most of it, and most of that is very accurate, I suspect. If we remember that our dreams are usually about whatever we don‘t want to admit to be true about ourselves, that’s quite impressive. It certainly suggests to me that you have already activated your Higher Mind, and have a considerable level of consciousness and awareness, and accurate insight, even into yourself.

I believe the huge, powerful plane represents living a “big” life, a life where “Big Mind” is featured. And it seems you’ve already started the engines, so maybe it’s way too late to worry about when to “start them again”. You wonder when is it time for you, but I suspect the answer is that the time was yesterday, or some time ago.

I believe your dream is saying that you’re doing something that’s dishonest to yourself, and not worthy of you, to tell yourself you’re not ready to live a “big” life. You mentioned at the end that you were confused. Well, in childhood and later, people who are aware may use confusion as a weapon to deal with dominating or manipulative or controlling adults. (Many women also use the weapon of inconsistency to give themselves more power. Men are often tricked into believing that the matrix of thoughts is the reality, but women often instinctively know that there’s something beyond that. So they behave inconsistently, and reason can’t handle inconsistency, because it leads to contradictions.) One day, or one moment, the child is one thing, the next day they’re something else. That way the would-be controller never gets to pin the child down, and therefore never be sure what the child’s “currency” is or what its weaknesses are, and so never gains full control.

The problem with this for the child playing the confusion game is that they may grow up to be confused themselves, because they’ve fallen for their own trap and identified with being ambiguously neither one thing nor the other. I may be wrong, but I suspect you are a little like that. I suspect you’re already flying/living that big plane – at least some of the time --, but part of you wants to stay behind in the hangar and hide there. But I suspect that deep down inside you already know that you don’t belong in that hangar.

Joe Akulis

15th July 2013, 17:48

TraineeHuman

16th July 2013, 04:51

Hello everyone.

Wanted to toss out a quick post to thank you TH for the intuition exercises. Just focusing my thoughts on the subject of intution has helped me to become more confident of my own intuitive ability, and to trust my stuff a bit more. This led to me finally conclude the truth of my origins. I no longer believe that I am an Earth native. There have been times over the past couple years when things I've read have made me wonder about it, but usually I would deflect the notion out of a desire not to inflate the ego. (Hey, cool, I'm special.) But at a certain point about two weeks ago, I just stopped and said, "Okay, it's time to face the fact that I'm different." Acknowledging this about myself has helped with a few things. I have a clearer understanding of how a belief carried through numerous lifetimes will turn into something that you cannot change in just a couple years in a current lifetime.

The message from my higher self a while back about it being wrong to hit people over the head with the truth has more meaning to me now. Just like someone who spends ten lifetimes as a female and then jumps into a male body will find themselves extremely confused about why they are not attracted to females, and generally cannot be cured of this "confusion" in just one lifetime, I think the same goes for belief systems as well.

If I spent ten lifetimes in the same region, and belonged to the same religion each time, then nothing you can say will shake me out of that pattern of thought overnight. They say a lot of folks who are attracted to the material on Avalon probably have ET origins. Well I see now that it's because we were simply exposed to a different truth about the universe. Wherever we are from, there was nowhere near the kind of heavy veil over things like there is here. So someone trying to teach one of us that you only get one lifetime as a human, and didn't exist beforehand, and won't get another life after that, well, it's a serious struggle for someone like me to continue to believe this. It's just something I shook off on my own, through natural curiousity, and by eventual exposure to the truths that I knew before I began this life.

Put that in reverse: What if someone tries to raise a child as a muslim, and becomes completely furious when that child converts to Catholicism at the age of 30. If you stop to consider that this person may have spent the last 7 lifetimes as a Catholic, then frustration should turn into understanding.

Intuition. Very powerful stuff indeed...

Love reading about all of your progress here, everyone.
Seeker

P.S. TH, do you have any idea how much your teachings have influenced me?

I trust you’ve been influenced by the other regular posters too, Joe.

I consider it’s more a matter of how much do people here influence their own selves for the better. I believe that’s the important question. How do they manage to make use of their intention? And their intuition.

I’ve been dong my best to include what I consider “advanced” info in smallish doses, and let those with eyes to see pick some of it up and apply it in their lives – sometimes deeply, if they do appreciate the depth. And I’ve been putting out positive intentions for everyone to do that.

I prefer to avoid presenting “teachings”, but rather just the truth about real spirituality as I’ve lived it or understood it – always within the limitations of my own experience and understanding.

It’s great to read your posts, Joe, because they always seem to carry a taste of paradise – or certainly, that’s how I experience them. I can almost smell the warm air and the gentle sea breezes of some idyllic tropical island. And the sense that life was meant to be easier, without being too lazy either. If only it weren’t that on this planet you and I are out of our natural habitats and we’re temporarily in hell.

I’m sure others would welcome it if you posted some more of your musings. They don’t need to be essay length!

I did feel in November there was a loud invitation from “above” that the time had arrived when it was OK to be forthright and candid about even the deepest questions of spirituality. Not just from me, of course, but from everybody. The middle heavens just rolled wide open, so to speak, and remain that way. Can’t be a bad thing.

For me, even from childhood OB experiences have always meant a spectrum of experiences, of which astral travel is only one form. I did realize that wasn’t the usual perception, but it took me a few years of really hard work to go from nightly astral travel to “travel” (for lack of a better word) without any body or any matter or any “frequency”. These things take time. Believe me, I know they do. But persistence works. It works a miracle. Perhaps idealistically, I supposed that at least some likespirited people would be able to eventually learn the same, or the equivalent of what I had learnt, or better. It’s not easy when all we have is words. But that’s why I considered it would be necessary to focus on direct experience as well.

animovado

16th July 2013, 08:28

Thank you TH, i believe you made a good job with your interpretation of my dream. Not only that you added some points i left out in my written conclusions, you brought more depth inside.
What you called confusion is in fact a hesitation and to mitigate it i'm playing hide and seek with myself and sometimes very little with "others".

There is the feeling that i have to close the gap between my insights and the knowledge i've gathered and my actions. To don't do so is really dishonest, as you recognized.

You asked about the way we're educated to look at the world.
If we look at the explanations science has to offer, we can see
a big gap and an inconsistancy there between the more physical
and the psychic faculties. It seems like a miracle to me, when all the physical transmissions appear somehow in a materially different medium of a mental order.
Especially when the only thing we really know is just the latter, namely the vivid picture of our world.

Joe Akulis

16th July 2013, 13:16

"If only it weren’t that on this planet you and I are out of our natural habitats and we’re temporarily in hell."

This can't be hell. We have indoor plumbing.

I think part of the task when working on intuition is not so much trying to improve your intuition itself, but more like improve your ability to hear it when it speaks. And then to develop the trust that indeed it was intuition you were hearing and not an overactive imagination. That's kind of been the way this is going for me, at least. I'm sure there's an evolution to it, like perhaps we get to a point where we can hear it all day long if we didn't learn how to hit the mute button. I guess we'll find out.

The first time I felt like it was speaking loudly to me was when I thought it was saying that I'm not from here. I needed some help to trust that message. It happened again this weekend. A friend of ours called us and started telling us something very interesting. She said from time to time she gets these vivid dreams that sometimes come true. And the other night she had a dream that our daughter, who plays youth softball, was going to be hit in the head with a softball and would end up dying.

After I thought this over a little bit, I told my wife she is probably a clairvoyant who sensed a mathematical probability in our timeline. Our daughter was about to start a three day tournament at the field where this friend said she saw the accident take place. So on Friday, before the first game of the tournament, I pulled my daughter off to the side and told her to do something before the game starts, and if she's pitching then to do it at the beginning of each inning. I told her to say to herself, "My guardian angels are protecting me in every way."

She played a total of 5 different games over the weekend, and if I didn't know any better, in the first game she played, I swear I could tell you the exact pitch where the danger existed. It just felt like my intuition was shouting at me when it happened. The batter hit the ball pretty hard, and it veered to the right of the pitcher's mound and was fielded safely by the girl playing second base. To anyone else it was just another play. There was nothing significant about it at all. My intuition was silent for the rest of the weekend.

It could be that the call for protection was very helpful to her. It could be that the mathematical odds just went in our favor that day. Or, it could be a little bit of both?
This is definitely new territory for me. Trusting what you think you heard.

Seeker

soleil

16th July 2013, 20:30

TraineeHuman

16th July 2013, 22:03

i have to clarify, what would be representative of purple/violet swirls? guardian angels and spirit guides?

Most of the time, the violet, or even violet-and-silver, energies are a certain type of healing energy. They come up whenever a cycle of healing has been completed, and either a hitchhiker or a thought/emotion form or complex is released from the person's energy field, or from existing in the physical world any more. The guys in violet are indeed healing angels, not guardian angels nor (usually) guides. They are senior to the other common healing angels, because they only appear at the end of a healing or therapeutic cycle, when a breakthrough has been made. They literally take negative entities or beings out of 3D and into 4D or 5D.

Alternatively, you could be looking at the energy of your mid-head chakra, which in my experience looks violet if you manage to view it from a partly OB position -- or if you see someone else's mid-head chakra field and it's properly activated. It's a huge chakra and it has many connections to OB energies -- though still not as much as the oversoul chakra.

TraineeHuman

17th July 2013, 02:07

I think part of the task when working on intuition is not so much trying to improve your intuition itself, but more like improve your ability to hear it when it speaks. And then to develop the trust that indeed it was intuition you were hearing and not an overactive imagination. That's kind of been the way this is going for me, at least. I'm sure there's an evolution to it, like perhaps we get to a point where we can hear it all day long if we didn't learn how to hit the mute button.

That’s certainly true, Joe. We all have to work at keeping on pushing into the unknown and expanding ourselves into something bigger than anything we think we are. That’s absolutely crucial. How do we do that? Certainly one part is to start listening to -- well, the voices “in our heads”. Somehow we have to stop censoring them and filtering them out, without at the same time going crazy. This is how creative artists work. They learn how to listen to and own that stream of inspirations and insights.

The higher kind of knowledge that the Higher Mind has and that we have to get to isn’t the truth that the intellect knows or discovers. It’s not a matter if finding the right perspective, the right opinions, the right information about yourself and the world. That, unfortunately, is only the ordinary surface mind’s idea of knowledge.

Instead, in this way the knowledge of more and more of our true, greater self is created out of “nothing”, by our venturing into the unknown and listening. The huge limitation we find ourselves in through having a body and senses makes it easy for us to miss what's most obvious and simple -- and plain to see, if we truly dare.

What we are heading towards ultimately is an I that can look at the totality of the universe, no less, and say, with full knowledge and delight: “Wow, that’s me! Aren’t I just absolutely wonderful!”

Freed Fox

17th July 2013, 03:52

I've been reflecting more and more on my purpose here, and the messages I've seemingly received in this search for understanding, the 'true' knowledge referenced above.

TH, you've mentioned your strong inclination that a large part of your purpose here (in your current incarnation) was to learn about and understand disharmony. I'm beginning to wonder if mine is not to understand disconnection, and alienation. That feeling of homesickness has been quite strong in the last few days...

I have tried many times now, to reach out to my spirit guides, guardian angels, or really anyone/anything listening for some form of advice or guidance... even just some subtle form of acknowledgment. I have tried asking, pleading, and even demanding for a sign of any sort (a word, an image, anything recognizably not the product of a wandering imagination). Following this, I still my mind and do my best to remove my expectations, save for remaining open to receive such a response which regrettably never seems to come.

I hope that I'm not expecting too much, but I cannot help feeling somewhat at a loss in the midst of reports of higher communions and those who are blessed to have memories of past and in-between lives, providing clarity and context for their current lives. I wonder if some of us are barred from these things, as that knowledge would detract from or even outright nullify the lessons meant to be learned? If the purpose is to understand this deep sort of uncertainty and sadness, then such validations would need to be withheld by necessity, would they not?

I'm trying not to discount what I've learned, or the dreams I've been having (which are encouraging, by and large), but I have to admit I am a chronic doubter. I realize that tendency primarily stems from the old materialistic, 'scientific' programming instilled in me from my educational background; that which seeks to deny what cannot be pinned down, measured, and observed. I know there is so much more, but perhaps this is not true knowing on my part because it does little to quell the aching need I have for personal, undeniable validation to that effect.

I truly hope this doesn't all come across too pessimistically... If so, I apologize. I'm just curious to see what Trainee and perhaps others might have to say about this. Thank you.

TraineeHuman

17th July 2013, 06:47

It would take a small book to respond to the issues in your above post fully, Freed Fox. Currently there’s a thread by pie’n’eal regarding the value of some untruths. I’d say that certainly the whole skeptical or “positivistic” or classical “scientific” or materialistic outlook – that much of humanity has been thoroughly put through in recent times -- is one such very valuable untruth. It does teach us unique lessons. In particular, that we should always proceed sensibly and groundedly and that it’s a mistake to deny or run away from the physical world and its life – as Ron Mauer has eloquently pointed out at least once, and as FrankLoL also was emphasizing in some posts around December/January.

In this thread I’ve been seeking to provide some appropriate sensible reasoning and conceptualizing and practical exercises even as I’ve been urging everyone to embrace the much bigger picture also. As we reach beyond the known, simultaneously we need to keep checking that we continue to live and act sensibly, and that we use the beyond primarily only to enrich our lives which, and this is a fact, are taking place in this mudheap of a world.

Paradoxically, you’ll learn the most deeply and the most quickly about Source, or the Higher Mind, if you also (among other things) enter deeply into and totally face physical reality and all the limitation it brings. The way of mud. This is, again, what Ron and FrankLoL have tried to tell us. I believe it’s also what Gaia strives to teach us.

Source, or the universe, is actually quite undefinable. The closer you get to it, the more undefinable and unknown it gets. But so also is “matter”! In posts #154, #155, and #161and #162 I argued, as also did Chester, that it’s more sensible and accurate to see matter as the Great Spirit in its densest form rather than seeing the Great Spirit as a subtle epiphenomenon of physical matter. But there are more difficulties with materialism than that. So, here’s a little more about matter. You do realize, of course, that the “method of doubt” you’re considering is necessarily based on complete non-doubt of the reality and the accessibility of matter.

My first additional point is that matter is ultimately just as indefinable and unknowable as Source.

For instance, I don’t know if you’re aware of the huge impact, particularly, in the world of the arts, of certain discoveries of physics in the early twentieth century or late nineteenth century. Basically, science had been based on the assumption that the physical world could be reduced to form, matter and space. Matter was considered to somehow be what gave the physical world its solidity, almost like the shredded paper or plastic bits used as filler in many large packages. What seemed to be clearly established by the early twentieth century or earlier was that wherever physicists had expected to find matter, there was nothing but form and empty space. (That has turned out to be even more true in the light of later discoveries of physics.)

Only form and space, and no matter at all. In the world of painting, this brought movements such as abstract expressionism – where it’s all about pure abstract form – very much into vogue. James Joyce wrote extraordinary novels without full stops anywhere, and simply “downloaded” onto paper the contents of the flow of his consciousness as it expressed itself in his head and heart.

I consider it’s highly desirable for everyone to try doubting everything at least once in their lifetime. But let’s consider that one can also doubt that the information from the physical senses isn’t an illusion. Furthermore, I believe Descartes was correct in saying that if we try to doubt everything, the one thing we end up being unable to doubt is that there exists a conscious being, or some consciousness, that is doing the doubting. Consciousness, not matter. So, I would say that attempting to apply doubt to the primacy and centrality of consciousness is intellectually dishonest, ultimately. The doubters and the skeptics should by rights be exploring the question of what consciousness is, but without questioning its primacy or the fact that everything gets its meaning and significance by reference to it.

From another angle, I know it can take many years before even a quite aware individual finds themselves having maybe exotic or “other dimensional” experiences in any vivid way. I’ve been there too, in certain ways. In this thread I’m trying to also discuss experiences like that even though only some rare individual(s) have had them so far. I guess I do that because it’s a way for readers to get at least two points of view – such an individual’s and mine – on something which is relevant to others’ OB experiences or attempted experiences, even if they may not see any evidence so far that it is relevant so far.

That's my response on the topic of doubt and scepticism. I'd love to hear Eram on that topic, as one example of our dark side.

I'll respond to some other things in your post shortly, Freed Fox.

soleil

17th July 2013, 13:32

hi freed fox, the one thing id like to point out is you saying you are a chronic doubter. that may be exactly what your being pointed to acknowledge, but you might be missing it. the easiest way to experience HS (for me in my experience), is tackling these things, that you finally REALIZE. it takes realization to do anything about it. and from my experience also, nothing comes for free. tackle the realization that you ARE a chronic doubter. realize that that in itself is a paradigm that you can beat based on your development of your intuition.

forgive me if i am wrong, but its all about getting OUT of the boxes you put yourself in, and then looking at the bigger picture with a new perspective. the more you do this, after the next self-realization, you can do another and another and another.
trust me. i LOOK FORWARD to finding something of myself to tackle.

get rid of your auto blocks and autopilot and react based on your intuition.

self doubt is the worst thing for your spiritual growth. i cant tell you how many times i have read that. and empirically, its true.

{edit}

i just read this in an email newsletter from energetic synthesis:

"As we expand our consciousness awareness through self-inquiry we discover what the priorities are in our life. What is running us? Where do we have pain? Thus we are open to explore and are exposed to greater levels of life experiences of which create resistance in order to gain knowledge. Sometimes to find out where the destructive pattern is hiding inside the human being, the soul guides a wide array of intensely painful and polarizing life experiences. We are not able to heal inside us what we do not recognize or identify first as a painful destructive pattern. The more destructive we are, the more spiritually weakened, and this invites anti-life forces for manipulation or possession. As we identify the destructive elements inside us, we can invite healing and loving spiritual forces to help us evolve through our heart. We are unable to evolve when the heart is shut down."

TraineeHuman

18th July 2013, 01:59

Freed Fox, you talk about your despair at the meaninglessness, the pointlessness of everything – unless one has found “it”. Thank you for trusting us enough that you can share so honestly. That’s a good sign. By “it” I’m referring to Source, or the ground of existence, or whatever anyone likes to call it. “It” does exist, all right, I can assure you.

I understand that seeing this utter pointlessness so clearly, while one continues to meditate and keep facing one’s demons head-on, is often just one step away from accessing “it”. What you seem to be going through sounds like what was traditionally called The Dark Night of The Soul. As in: “It always seems darkest before the dawn.”

Traditionally, in Christian mysticism it was recognized as the very last stage before one begins to experience “union with God”, i.e. to have one’s first experiences of enlightenment. Based on that, and on my own experience, I would say: don’t give up, because you’re probably almost there! The exotic experiences aren’t what’s important. What’s important is finding that which greatly lightens your burdens. And then continues to lighten them more and more, if you work with it in your life.

I promise it will come. I can tell from your descriptions of what you’ve been experiencing. I notice that many branches of spiritual traditions regard patience to be one of the primary virtues a person should cultivate.

In the next week I’ll also pay you a visit OB, and see if I’m able to heal any blocks. Normally I just occasionally do psychic healings of people who are terminally ill. I have a high success rate, and physicians have a hard time explaining why such patients suddenly recover instead of dying. The primary healing always occurs at a psychological – or mental/emotional -- level whenever all I’m trying to do is a physical healing. But I’ll see what I can do, and am not promising anything. Strangely, the person is always the one who heals themselves. All I do is create a kind of golden environment where they feel safe to release their own great healing power which was always there in their Higher Mind. It's a strange universe.

soleil

18th July 2013, 13:26

i'm on the verge of not remembering parts of my dream last night. in essence, all my teeth feel out right after screaming at the top of my lungs. i cannot recall why i was so upset as to scream, but it was directed at my fiance, for not doing whatever it was i was nagging him to do.

then while i'm showing him that all my teeth fell out, in which he was kind of grossed out about....then i realized to myself that this is so silly - i can get my teeth fixed, why not just float around the room instead?? because i just realized that i COULD float if i wanted to. (i've never floated before with full control like this in past dreams)

then in that moment i was quite lucid, and floating. it was really neat like i was one big even circle, i think i even felt being mass-less. just remember that, i recall how cool it was that i just could make it happen. so this happened twice. i was saying "look at me, look at me, i can float!" to my fiance who was unfazed.

another note,
would anyone be down to do that group meditation thing? i unfortunately missed the attempt before. TH what do you think?

TraineeHuman

18th July 2013, 14:27

If you look at most types of wild animals, usually their teeth are the part of them which expresses their aggression the most – particularly after they have killed their prey. I think it’s lovely that you lost your teeth. No doubt it means that you’ve made a big advance in forgiveness. It strongly suggests to me that you’ve really forgiven your Mom as you’ve recently claimed, and also your fiancée -- well, after some initial yelling, perhaps. Maybe your nagging is really a way of asking him to be more loving, or something like that? At any rate, the evolution from ego to consciousness involves outgrowing the more base animal reactions. I think it’s a lovely lucid dream.

As far as taking part in group meditations goes, I do know that about five years ago there was a big worldwide meditation event called “Fire the Grid”. Some expert clairvoyants I knew at the time checked it out thoroughly and found that it was essentially a type of black magic operation. So, I don’t know which group meditation event you’re referring to. I can try to check it out if you’ll provide some details. Group meditations do unlock or create quite large amounts of psychic energy. But it’s possible to use that for good or for evil. In the case of Fire the Grid, no doubt the majority of people taking part (including quite a few members of the old Camelot/Avalon Forums) intended it to be for the good, but the individuals who set it up had apparently created psychic structures in advance that would use all that energy for sinister purposes.

soleil

18th July 2013, 14:34

no i meant the one earlier in this thread where you were able to provide feedback. it was a thread group exercise, very near the beginning of this whole topic.
i'll find a reference post and post it here in a minute.

[edit]
i wanted to add, in past dreams, i've lost a couple or several teeth before... but never all of them at once. i had one of those big new born baby smiles, upon looking in the mirror, or looking at myself. ironic?

thank you for the dream interpretation :D

Freed Fox

18th July 2013, 17:06

Thanks TH and teradactyl, for the thoughtful input.

In the next week I’ll also pay you a visit OB, and see if I’m able to heal any blocks. Normally I just occasionally do psychic healings of people who are terminally ill. I have a high success rate, and physicians have a hard time explaining why such patients suddenly recover instead of dying. The primary healing always occurs at a psychological – or mental/emotional -- level whenever all I’m trying to do is a physical healing. But I’ll see what I can do, and am not promising anything.

That is very kind TH, thank you for this as well. Though, I would not ask this of you if it is in any way uncomfortable, or inconvenient.

It may have sounded quite bad, but thankfully (I suppose) this has not been the height of my despair. I believe I went through that dark night for a period of time awhile ago. Although there is currently this existential difficulty, I could not honestly compare it to that time. I'll spare you all the details, as it really is mired in a lot of negativity which I don't want to impose on anyone.

To cut it short, I don't want to worry anyone here. I do feel like this is perhaps the only avenue I have to discuss these matters openly, and at least in this thread it does feel safe to do so. The people close to me in everyday life don't strike me as remotely spiritual, or at least not in any conscious capacity. So my sincerest thanks to everyone here for providing and maintaining this platform for open and honest discussion.

soleil

18th July 2013, 17:08

hi freed, please dont stop sharing with us. :)

Joe Akulis

18th July 2013, 18:59

"The people close to me in everyday life don't strike me as remotely spiritual, or at least not in any conscious capacity."

Yeah. Not much fun. Our favorite subjects cause people to peel away quicker than the Blue Angels at an air show. I certainly share THAT depression with you. I think part of it has to do with them migrating their beliefs in very small steps. Eventually, it will all change here, what people do and don't believe. But if they were to just sit down with us over a beer and start listening, I expect we could cause more harm than good. When people get that glassy-eyed look and change the subject to who's winning at Wimbledon, it's probably a defense mechanism. Like their HS is grabbing the wheel and saying, "Woah, too much too fast here..."

I don't know about you, but it makes me impatient. Like, c'mon, let's get through this life already. Get back home, with kindred. But here's something to consider: What if where we go to after this life is a place where there is no depression. I guess it would be a big relief. But... There's one thing I have learned from this place. A meal fit for a king cannot truly be appreciated, unless you've spent time as the pauper. A place of peace cannot be known for its true value, unless you have endured a place of turmoil and disharmony.

Do you want to get out of here with a woolen robe to protect your emotions with? Or do you want to walk the afterlife with a chestplate of pure titanium!!! Bring it on!

Seeker

Freed Fox

19th July 2013, 19:48

Don't worry teradactyl, I don't plan on quitting soon. :)

I don't know about you, but it makes me impatient. Like, c'mon, let's get through this life already. Get back home, with kindred. But here's something to consider: What if where we go to after this life is a place where there is no depression. I guess it would be a big relief. But... There's one thing I have learned from this place. A meal fit for a king cannot truly be appreciated, unless you've spent time as the pauper. A place of peace cannot be known for its true value, unless you have endured a place of turmoil and disharmony.

Thanks Seeker, the paragraph above is pretty much the attitude I hold when things start to look frustratingly pointless. It at least makes some sense of the hardships, both my own as well as those that others experience which I can't alleviate.

Last night was...interesting. I was having a fairly ordinary dream, in which I was with my old band and we had apparently just played a show because we were loading up all of our instruments, speakers, and such. At some point, this girl who was in the band started acting really snotty toward me, and for some reason that sparked in me the thought, "hey, this is MY dream, I don't have to put up with this." As might be expected, this thought started to initiate a state of lucidity and control, but before it could come on fully, I suddenly 'woke up'.

I was in my bed, and everything appeared as normal except I was apparently not really awake because my body was moving on its own. I was sliding back and forth across my bed, and my body was kind of wiggling like a snake. For some reason my first thought was, "oh, this is good, it seems like one of Radiga's methods (The Phase)". So, with that thought I tried to gradually increase or accelerate this motion while trying not to become too critical or anything like that. After a short time, I seemingly pulled away from my body!

Now, this was very exciting to me but I still hesitate to come right out and say that I was truly OoB and not at a certain level of lucid dream. That is because, when people report going out of body while near their physical body, they always report being able to see themselves lying asleep in bed. This was one of the first things that came to mind as I stood up, having a sort of electric sensation which struck me as a strong positive indicator.

Before that, I should also quickly describe something interesting I noticed immediately upon my apparent separation; I became aware of a white ball of light hovering above my head. I briefly tried to turn my head so as to study it, but I was unable to do so. It seemed to be hovering about two feet above my head, but it was also off-centered, like it was floating somewhere between the center of my head and my right shoulder. It would move in conjunction with my movements, such that it was always just out of view. It illuminated an area of about 1 1/2 feet all around me, and beyond its light the room was quite dark.

As I said, I wanted to observe my body so as to 'confirm' the OBE (as if the sensations and the hovering light wasn't enough :p ). I walked closer to my bed, but even as I stood right next to it, the light was only enough to illuminate the nearest edge. I observed what I guess would be an astral artifact, if this truly wasn't a lucid dream after all; the bed was covered in dirt and grass (not grass clippings, but grass which appeared to be growing out of the sheets). Scattered across the bed also were pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. I could not make out anything more. Then, for some reason, even though I was 'seeing' all of these things, I had the sensation that my physical eyes were closed and that it might help to open them. Once I did however, I (actually) woke up, in physical reality, lying in bed.

Despite being very brief, this experience was encouraging to me. However, I don't really know what to make of what I saw, and as you can probably see my doubts stalk me even in the astral! :rolleyes:

AwakeInADream

19th July 2013, 20:22

Great FreedFox!:) Take that as a win and be encouraged!:) The more that door opens the easier it gets.
I know what you mean though, it just won't seem as real or be as satisfying until you can see your physical body laying there, and so far it's never even crossed my mind to look for it.:doh:. It just goes to show you have a great deal of fully conscious control over yourself whilst out there.:thumb:

Freed Fox

19th July 2013, 21:57

Thank you Awake, and yes 'encouraged' is the word. :)

I know my recent post may have sounded to the contrary, but I really do feel blessed by my dreams. Although, I have to again look to my social and cultural 'programming' to understand why they don't always confer long-term boosts to my morale. Most of the people I've met and discussed dreams with (in person) consider them to be largely the fanciful and insignificant ramblings of the subconscious mind. One of the best things about this forum and this thread in particular is the recognition that they can be - and most likely are - something much more.

I'm particularly interested to hear what TH and others might have to say about the ball of light and the grass growing in the bed, if there is any particular symbolism or significance there. The puzzle pieces as well, although I can at least guess that those represent the fact that I'm 'putting it together', but the big picture is not yet clear to me.
The light reminded me a bit of what Trainee was saying about the oversoul area when talking about teradactyl's shower meditation. However, it was kind of strange to me that it was not directly above my head but rather off to the right side. Again, I was unable to look directly at it but glimpsed it in my peripheral vision while trying to do so, and what little I could see lead me to believe it was a ball or sphere.

EDIT: This probably goes without saying for most here, but I want to quickly point out that I'm not relinquishing my own personal responsibility by blaming my 'programming'. After all, 'it takes two to tango', or perhaps rather three; authorities/institutions which 'install' the programming, friends and peers who reinforce programming through support/agreement with it, and of course the individual, who must find the resolve to rise above it.

MK777

20th July 2013, 00:49

Hi Freed Fox,

About half a year ago I had a spontaneous OBE where I was literally dragged out of bed and was floating down on my knees how much I resisted it. Very quickly I realized to just let go and accept what is. At this point I was floating on my back and went to the bathroom where I saw beautiful vines and flowers growing around the shower head. I looked at it and took in the beauty of it. Then I woke up.

Here is how I understood my OBE. I always bless the water before I shower by calling it wonderful healing water. I often wondered if that had any impact whatsoever. This OBE confirmed that it does indeed. Perhaps you can look at the meaning of your bed and figure out what it means to you.

Much love

Marina

TraineeHuman

20th July 2013, 02:52

Freed Fox, as far as I can tell there have been at least three or four individuals here who have made awesome progress at facing and embracing their dark side in what’s been a very short time. The extent to which any person has done this seems to be directly related – as far as I know --to how many nasties or even demonic beings and so on they will experience in the realms beyond the physical. Facing your dark side seems to be virtually the same thing as dissolving the ego. For this reason, many people who, like the majority of people, haven’t gone far in dissolving their ego, will see demons and trappers behind absolutely every bush, everywhere in the astral. I appreciate you've been making plenty of progress in this too. In fact, you seem to encounter the opposite of nasties more so than anyone else who's been courageous enough to describe their dreams. You'll have to forgive me for talking about this topic anyway here, but I'm giving way to my intuition, regarding what's the more important thing to talk about.

As I’ve explained earlier, there are several reasons why what you see depends on how much control your ego has over you. One is that in the astral some parts of your self which are normally in your subconscious, and not clearly visible to you, will appear and seem like energies or beings quite separate and independent from you. But the more you have embraced all that, the more you will be able to realize they are a part of the “normal” you and you don’t need to waste any of your attention worrying about them at all.

Secondly, the more you have faced and embraced your dark side, the less significance it will have for you that some energies or whatever are dark – whether they’re “yours” or not. They’ll just be another part of the scenery, and there’ll be no reason to fear them. Then they won’t have any sinister power over you, at all, ultimately. They won’t be able to attach themselves to you, either.

After we physically die, we will initially go to a certain level of the astral anyway. Where we proceed to after that will depend considerably on the degree to which our ego has been dissolved/transformed. I’ve been amazed and inspired at the rate of progress at least several individuals here have demonstrated in doing that. Such individuals will have a red carpet, after their deaths, for them to go to higher realms. I don’t know about you, but I see that as far more important than how much they’ve successfully astral traveled or lucidly dreamed.

I suggest you -- and everyone -- should keep working on facing your demons even further, Freed. It took me ever so long to understand some of the things involved in that. Ever so many points where I’d believed I was done with doing that, only to discover there was much further still to go. Ever so many layers of the onion. The genuineness and commitment of a number of individuals on this thread is inspiring and rather mind-blowing to me. It’s a long process, Freed, but I would have thought you can do it as quickly as almost anyone on the thread, if you keep at it.

The white light would be a guide or g.a. or a higher aspect of you. Sometimes people need healing on one side of their body -- because their sympathetic and parasympathetic systems are out of balance, or their "right brain" and "left brain" are particularly out of balance. Even though you're doing so well at dreaming, I take it this is saying you need to look at making even more use of your intuition.

I'm glad you found the dream a source of encouragement. I believe the grass has to do with that.

TraineeHuman

21st July 2013, 02:11

would anyone be down to do that group meditation thing? i unfortunately missed the attempt before. TH what do you think?

Yes, I know you missed it. But before attempting something similar again, we'd have to find a way to genuinely meet OB and be conscious we were doing so. Let me explain.

Early in this thread – a little before the attempted get-together in the astral on the second-last weekend in December – I offered to OB visit about ten members. My idea was that this might be helpful in an analogous way to how psychic healing works.

In psychic healing the client does the healing work, or most of it. All the healer needs to do is “hold” the client in a very favorable environment (by going mostly OB themselves). In that environment, I’ve found that almost anyone can easily do miracles of self-healing provided they truly want to. When I say “anyone”, just imagine. I prefer to often work with terminal cases, because then the person is usually truly sincere about wanting to get healed. But there’s an etheric atmosphere around most such dying people that feels quite putrid, and often there’s depression or pain. In addition, about three months before a person dies, they somehow stop manufacturing life-force, and their energy field goes mostly black, particularly around the head. Imagine: if anyone like that can not only switch their body life-force back on but easily take in the golden healing light direct from Source itself, full on, and transform their whole body from “dying” to “healthy” in minutes …

In psychic healing (as distinct from psychotherapy) I always focus on finding and then facilitating the healing of the major physical problem(s). But the second half of the healing is always about the client’s psychological issue(s) that has underlain their physical complaint. The client brings it up naturally, and kind of automatically.

So, my idea behind OB visiting individual members was that first I would locate them just as I do when doing a remote healing. Then, given my experiences with healing, it should be a simple matter – or so I thought – to create an environment where the member would feel safe to let go of their physical consciousness for a moment. Such as, having created a favorable and safe environment I could kind of wave and invite them to come and join me for a moment.

I guess one problem, apparently, was that only two out of ten individuals seemed to be able to “see” me, or at least locate that someone was there. Libico, who was a reasonably experienced astral traveler, was so eager to travel to more subtle realms than the middle astral that he even gently helped pull me through the blue ring to help hurry me along, as a kind of hint that he was eager to go to places higher. Actually, every single member I visited was eager, and very willing.

Yes, most if not all don’t remember my visit(s), but then, in remote psychic healing my clients usually don’t detect my presence. That doesn’t stop them from undergoing a miraculous total healing in under twenty minutes. Why, then, did the members not learn how to kind of heal themselves of whatever was stopping them from consciously accessing an OB form or part of themselves?

That’s a puzzle I still have in the back of my mind. Of course, too much thinking or reflection about something like this and not enough action won’t help.

I went and visited most of them again. This time I began with remote psychic healing, but quickly pulled out of it into remote, wordless psychotherapy / energy work. I did this very much from an OB position, which virtually forced the member to go OB with me. Some members worked fantastically well in terms of releasing their psychological blocks etc. But the moment I tried to venture outside of that into anything like just socializing OB or just moving around in an OB world together, it became a matter of like trying to hold on to a kite string in a gale.

One thing I did notice from these encounters was that everyone seems to have a very different style of traveling OB – because yes, we all do it whenever we dream. But there seems to be a subtle layer of beyond-physical ego which personalizes one’s preferred way of astral traveling. For lack of a better analogy, I guess it’s like everyone had a different version of what the “right” kind of swimming was. One person might insist that dog paddle was the only form of swimming, although maybe breaststroke was near enough too. Another person might be an adherent of backstroke. A third person might be a water-skiing fan, and insist that was the best form of swimming and “true” swimming once one could see a bigger picture. A fourth person might believe that the “right” swimming involved traveling through the water with momentum of a dive. And so on. For some reason, as far as I can see, whenever I tried to OB travel or astral travel with someone else, I found they felt too insecure unless I did it “their” way.

Then there was the attempted group get-together on the second-last weekend in December, which is what you were asking about, teradactyl. It wasn’t a group “meditation”. But I suggested we all attempt to meet and greet briefly in the astral and then try to pool our forces and spend ten minutes or so sending positive things to others in our lives, and to each other.

At the arranged time, I managed to locate a number of members. I located the first one easily, in the same way I do before performing a remote healing. I found that the others all seemed to be nearby and within “earshot”. The strange thing was, I seem to have been the only one who experienced six other individuals. Everyone was kind of being themselves at some OB level. Chester was being his usual self, spreading his energies in every direction at the same time and kind of challenging everything and everyone. Libico was busy observing everything from a more subtle, exalted level. The members who felt they weren’t really up to this OB stuff yet were going around OB saying things like “I’m a beginner”, and acting sheepishly or trying to stay in one corner or whatever.

This made it clearer to me how much the Higher Mind lives a separate life from who the person believes they are and from their life as they see it. At the time of the exercise, Chester had to work, and was quite busy at his desk, not aware of meeting at least with me. Libico was sitting in a meditative state but apparently didn’t succeed in going OB at that particular time. And so on. And yet I saw them all there quite clearly, all being their characteristic selves, in a way.

For the others, at a conscious level, the get-together was uneventful, if not a non-event. But I also experienced something rather spectacular. The most effective healing energy is Light that the mind usually “sees” as golden light. (I believe I know Light includes, for example, “emptiness” in the sense of complete absence of space and time, among other things, hence the capital L.) Well, I saw a “movie” and symbols and so on that the entire “ceiling above” it all opened up and was pure brilliant gold, and then all that gold melted like some metal and poured down onto us below, and it opened up and two beings came down from ever so many layers above us. I immediately recognized these beings as benevolent Gods (but it would take too long to explain how here). I wanted to know who they were, but they took exception to that, and made themselves look like clay statues and only showed me the bottom bases of two statues made of cement. The Gods are like that. They were objecting that I was trying to grasp at the formless, and trying to label or identify them when I should have known better. But I do know that through them enormous healing “energy” was released. I’m sure that happened, even if no-one else noticed it directly much at all.

TraineeHuman

21st July 2013, 14:31

In the reality of our being, underneath all the veils, we are the One, we are somehow Source, the indivisible consciousness. So, our sensory experience of pain, pleasure and indifference can only be something superficial. It can only be something that’s somehow created by a limited part of ourselves. Can you see it as that, at times? Can you perhaps make it an exercise every day for the next week to take time time each day to pause and see this somehow?

You’d like me to say more about Source? Source is something in us that’s much more vast, and ultimately more real than our superficial consciousness. (Talking about appearance versus reality.) It takes delight impartially in all experiences. It’s that delight which secretly supports the superficial being. It's what enables it to persevere through all the suffering in this world of limitation. What we call ourselves is only a trembling ray on the surface; underneath, deeper, lies something vast but somehow profiting by all these surface experiences. Though it’s veiled, it receives these experiences and assimilates them into a truer, more profound, creative experience. Out of its depths it returns them to the surface in forms of strength, character, knowledge, inspiration whose roots are mysterious to us because our (lower) mind moves and hovers on the surface and hasn’t learnt to integrate itself and live in the depths.

I once used to say to people that my favorite Zen koan would be: “Why don’t you commit suicide?” Not that I would ever advocate suicide, except perhaps in some cases of euthanasia. But the point was, if a person deeply looks at that question, they should eventually realize that underlying everything, holding it all together ultimately, there is the bliss of the One, of Source lying deep within you.

I guess Freed Fox has recently been saying he hasn’t been able to see this at all. And certainly, for almost everyone, in ordinary life this truth is at best glimpsed only dimly and only sometimes. But can you somehow see or experience that something inside you that’s a oneness must be holding everything together that you experience? Maybe some of you can, and others can’t, right now?

TraineeHuman

22nd July 2013, 13:43

If we look at where our way of looking at the world through the spectacles of pleasure, pain, and indifference comes from, I suggest we’ll come to see the following. This ultimately superficial way of dealing with all of reality ultimately comes as a result of our imperfect mineral-to-vegetable-to-animal evolution over many, many past lifetimes, lasting who knows how many million years. This – our use of the “spectacles” of pleasure, pain and indifference -- is somewhat arbitrary, and accidental. It isn’t necessary. I mean, I don’t believe it’s the only way an intelligent creature can develop. Though,as it happens it is basically what the ego’s behavior is made out of. The ego lives through and in reactions. And those reactions are of three kinds – pleasure, pain, or indifference.

Why do we find certain things pleasurable and others painful? If you look carefully at the experiences of various different people, you’ll notice that, aside from what’s physically painful, it varies from one individual to another. And that mostly, it’s a matter of habit. But if we want to be free, we need to find a way to be largely free of habit – except for some practical considerations, such as the habit of safe driving, for instance.

EXERCISE Here I need to challenge you, folks. I’ve already said that freedom necessarily involves the elimination of suffering. That’s what we’re all ultimately heading for, sooner or later. Obviously, though, we won’t achieve the elimination of suffering unless we’ve first unhinged ourselves from the mechanism of suffering, so to speak. And what is that mechanism? Let me suggest to you that it’s all to do with those “spectacles” of reaction, in any of the three flavors of reaction.

I suggest to you that you’re already quite capable of frequently coming up with the opposite response to what you normally do: pleasure where you used to feel pain, and pain where you used to feel pleasure. Better than that, you’re equally as capable – once you’ve learned to “switch off from” or “unhitch” your mechanical responses -- of responding with deep peace, or with intense joy, even bliss maybe.

That’s a description of what I trust should be the end result of practicing this exercise. But for now, I’d suggest you do this exercise by:
(1) Firstly becoming aware of whenever a reaction of pleasure/pain/indifference is trying to take you over;
(2) Putting a pause in there, a gap, before you continue, and also making yourself aware that this is something that’s trying to take over control of you and use you as if you were a puppet;
(3) Consciously taking control, and not yielding to the impulse, not giving it your support.

Can you learn to convert the false into the true, the imperfect into the perfect? I believe it’s as simple to do as doing this exercise.

As you learn to do it, you’ll notice the challenge of what you’re habitually used to perceiving as negative experiences. These include failures, losses, disappointments, bad luck perhaps purely through accident, and so on. Can you, when faced with such experiences, switch off from jumping straight to a negative interpretation at light speed? Can you learn to stop jumping to interpretations, good or bad? That’s my challenge to you. Believe me, the rewards of truly doing it are sweeter than can be imagined.

There’s a story about a Zen master who suffered what bystanders saw as a tragedy in his life. I’m sorry, I can’t recall the details. Maybe it was that his house had burnt down. Everyone said to him: “How terrible!” He replied: “Is it bad? Is it a good thing? I don’t know.”

Then something else happened. Maybe there was a flood, but he was the only one who had built or partly built something on higher ground, and therefore the only one whose food stores weren’t lost to the flood. Then everyone said: “How good for you! How lucky you are!” Again, his reply was that he didn’t really know if it was truly a good or a bad thing. And so the story continued, with further twists one way and then the other.

Can you conquer pain of the mind and the body? Not completely, perhaps, but can you stop reacting under the assumption that you are in your very essence a limited being? The evolution to higher consciousness involves eventually outgrowing pain – at least all psychological pain --, because eventually it has served its purpose and it’s time for you to move on and up.

soleil

22nd July 2013, 15:11

hey th, i'll pipe in on this one. i have recently done this, in relation to certain habitual blocks i've always had, for example regarding attention - i dont like being a centre of attention etc. i can tend to reject any unexpected attention to myself. i then also have all these random preferences....such as, "i like this", "i like to be like this", "only when 'this is the circumstances' then 'this is acceptable'.... etc.
and so on and so forth.

and so now i'm wondering why why why??? why the heck do i even have these "rules"....as im really not rigid, so why should i be with these scenarios? then i ask myself to perceive the situation in the viewpoint of the opposite.

so for simplicity sake, instead of rejecting any "attention" lets say of a display of affection whether in public or not, (probably a habit learned from my mother).
what would happen if this continues? what would become of my relationship(s)? at what point would it be unacceptable? is it already past that point? how do i make the other person feel, is that how i want them to feel? (loved).

anyways, intuitively by comparison of my split perspective, i was able to take in the consequences (in my life) of what would happen IF i do not make an effort to give and love and accept love. did i like these consequences? is that what i want? and also, what kind of consequences would happen if i made it easy to love and be loved, instead? flip side if you will.

it seems to take more effort to love and be loved; than to reject it outright and not know why.

when you untie one knot, there always seems to be more knots that need to loosen up. :D

Joe Akulis

22nd July 2013, 18:01

I think I've been pracicing this exercise for the past twenty years, and I'll tell you the effect it has had on me.

In one of my philosophy classes back in school, I once came across an awesome little phrase written by ... uhh, I think Epictetus, or Epicurus... (one of those Epics :-) where he said, "Demand not that events should turn out as you wish..." After rolling that over in my brain for a couple days, I ended up taking it to heart. From then on I was using that advice to improve my life trememdously. I started out with the simple things, and now it helps me govern the big things. For example, when I would be watching an auto race on tv, or any other sport, and my favorite driver or my favorite team would suck, it used to stress me out and I'd get all bummed.

This practice of not putting demands on the outcome of the event made it so much easier to spectate. And I learned how to apply this practice to all sorts of things in life. Even today when I watch my daughter's softball team have a bad day, I use this and it helps me feel happy for all of the players on the opposing team who get to feel the tremendous joy of knowing they are among the few who will ever accomplish this feat of beating... *okay, back on track*

The effect of using this habitual practice to moderate my emotions through the not-so-important events in my day to day life has been to now allow me to handle the big events in life with much greater effectiveness, in my opinion. For example, if someone crashes into my car, I now have this desire to go out of my way to let them know that I have no ill will toward them. The destruction of something material takes a back seat in my mind to my effort to ensure that the driver of the other car doesn't get scared about "what I might do" or worry that I'm upset with them. I go out of my way to comfort people who do something wrong toward me by accident. In customer service situations, like eating at a restaurant, I often will accept a mistake, like someone messing up my order, out of a desire not to do anything that might darken that person's day. After all, they probably get sick enough of dealing with people all day long as it is. It's more important to me to keep the mistake to myself and not even bring it to their attention, to try to keep their day as bright as I possibly can.

Some might call this a personality flaw, but deep down, I consider it a more noble trait. And it comes from identifying when an emotional reaction to a situation is allowed to become your puppetmaster.

Seeker

Joe Akulis

22nd July 2013, 18:48

Freed Fox,
I also had a dream this past week that went momentarily lucid a couple times. I thought I would share it here because it happened a week after I came to the understanding/acceptance of my origins. I still don't know much about who I am or where I'm from, other than I'm not native, so far. But this dream had quite an effect on me.

I was in a school gymnasium for some kind of assembly. The bleachers were filled, and I was sitting down on the floor in a fold up metal chair with other people. And I was really bored with whatever was going on. I glanced up at the windows near the ceiling and then instantly yanked my eyes back downward and said to myself, "NO, that's how ET abductions often start! People see a light outside the window." (I have the X-Files TV show to blame for that reaction. :-)
Then right after this, I thought to myself, "Hey wait a minute. We want that to happen!" (Thank you Dolores Cannon and TraineeHuman :-) So I looked back up at the windows and sure enough they started glowing brightly, and then I was paralyzed. This made me really excited and happy. I floated up through the window and into the light. When I reached the center of the light, I began to sense the presence of a half dozen other beings there. And then I sensed that they were old friends who were curious about how it was going. I reflected on that for a second and then tears started coming. Then I slammed an iron lid on that, and thought to myself, "NO. I'm not going to put on some weepy display of emotion, just because things on Earth aren't always a picnic."

Right after that the light went away and I found myself floating sideways across the landscape. I then went slightly lucid a second time and thought, "Hey, I bet I'm astral travelling." So I tried to take control and go where I wanted, and as soon as I did, I came gently down to the ground. Bummer! The remainder of the dream involved me wandering about in this foreign territory that I'd never seen before.

I was a pretty happy camper that morning.

Seeker

soleil

22nd July 2013, 18:59

Joe Akulis

22nd July 2013, 19:09

hey seeker, i wanted to thank you for one of your previous posts. the one with the story about your daughters baseball game.

i recently felt the need and inspiration to say alloud a (baseball/guardian angel) prayer for my own safety. i was travelling up and down a serious flight of stairs with some weariness of what could go wrong...as i was carrying many heavy items and i (alone) had about 10+ trips to make. anyways, after my prayer at the top of the stairs, i immediately felt as agile as a cat, and all weariness completely disappeared. :D

(& we finished our move!!! woot woot)
:cool:

I sure hope that when we have that recognition of our GAs influence from time to time, that they can feel our gratitute and love. I feel like I'll never be able to pay them back for all the times they have pulled my fat out of the fire over the years. Twice they saved me from freezing to death out in the snow. I hope that some of my outpourings of love can make up for all the times they've had to get their boots muddy on behalf of this dummy...

.
what a great thread and what great company we have here guys. :)
i'm so blessed to be able to talk with you all.
:cool:

Couldn't agree with you more!

AwakeInADream

22nd July 2013, 20:29

I've been doing that exercise already too TH. It just seems like a natural progression in my development.:)

Over the weekend I was walking along in my own bliss and I was suddenly insulted by a drunk man shouting abuse at me through a taxi window. I immediately examined my self to see if there was any kind of emotional reaction in me, and I found none. I carried on walking in my own bliss.:) Actually I found I just had to smile at myself, at just how far I've come to get to the stage where I am not effected by the outer world. The pains and pleasures of the ego world seem so dull and unimportant to me now that I always look for the Soul in people first and understand they're flaws as being unreal ego constructs. What is important to me now is untouchable in this ego world. It is what was, what is, and what always shall be. It is what remains when the ripples have faded away.:)

P.S. Sorry I didn't answer your question TH, about how I got my intention to work. I just don't know. It seemed to me that my Higher Mind made a decision, and I went along with it. As it turned out HM knew all along what was best for me. I was a little worried at first that my HS might have had a harder spiritual lesson for me (in terms of doing a job that made me uncomfortable), but it seems that I'm taking it easy on myself for the time being, and enjoying life.:)

soleil

22nd July 2013, 20:33

we seem to be A+++++++ students. :)

AwakeInADream

22nd July 2013, 21:04

TraineeHuman

23rd July 2013, 01:34

It’s great that at least a number of you are already applying the concept in some ways in your lives.

I’d like to invite you all to see if you can take it even further, much further. You’ll only be living it to the max if you’ve managed to replace all (psychological) pleasure and pain in your life with bliss, or with ever so deep a peace, all the time. I suspect possibly no-one alive has managed to do that totally 100%. Or maybe one or two have here or there somewhere on the planet. But at least it’s a matter of coming to see (psychological, or emotional) pleasure and pain themselves as impostors, as very inferior and false versions of bliss itself. Bliss should be and ultimately is our natural response to all of existence. It’s only because we’ve “fallen” into a world of great limitation that we’ve lost constant touch with that.

Seeker Joe has already given us some quite good examples of applying this in one’s relationships. Most of our life can be divided into work and relationships, so let me say some things about my experience of work.

It’s very noticeable to many of my co-workers that I seem to find the work I do with them there a very positive experience. Although I don’t normally appear to be blissed out, nevertheless they tend to shake their heads and note the difference from the average worker. The average worker, almost anywhere, carries his/her job as a huge burden, a deep well out of which to draw many implicit or expressed complaints about how difficult or unpleasant or painful or gigantically meaningless her/his lot is in having to work in that particular role. Some may conclude that I must be lucky (so they think) to have found a line of work that for some reason I love. Though they do first pause to check whether maybe I could be crazy, or somehow very dense. But no, they conclude, I just seem to be totally free of apathy and resistance and feeling miserable generally.

What I’ve said about work also applies to all those chores most people hate (psychological pain) to do. So, yes, transforming it into bliss means you’ll find a way to love doing those chores – or at the very least your resistance to getting them done will vanish. Won’t that be a relief! Always finding a way to enjoy everything. Not so bad, wouldn’t you say? But I do mean everything, folks. The same sort of thing applies to handling negativity in your life, such as negative people. Again, I could mention how the Chinese character for “crisis” can and does equally mean “opportunity”. That’s the challenge to us all. To do this so much that we’re transformed into a whole different way of living, and therefore of being, all the time.

TraineeHuman

23rd July 2013, 02:18

In the “ordinary” view of the world and self and things, everything takes place and moves only on surfaces. The imperturbable, infinite state of pure delight and bliss that is natural to the soul mostly remains hidden, buried deep somewhere in the subconscious.

So also in “ordinary” experiences. Whatever it is that enables everything to remain in existence, or come into existence in the first place, lies hidden and unexperienced and unknown. And as it is within all phenomena, so it is within all experiences whether pleasant, painful or neutral. Because it remains so hidden to most people, they replace it with the instinct of self-preservation, they pretend that physical matter is what’s real and eternal, and they take it for granted that it’s OK to pretend they’re immortal in their current state and level of self-development.

They rarely even suspect that existence itself, in its deeper nature if they could only look below the surface, is literally bliss. And nothing else. Why else would everything remain in existence, and strive and work in every way to continue to exist? This is the secret. Bliss is the alpha and the omega. It’s the one thing that doesn’t need to justify itself. It’s the one thing that’s done purely for its own sake.

The question is, how deeply and fully will you be able to dig to uncover this treasure, which ultimately is the only treasure?

TraineeHuman

24th July 2013, 01:47

Hi TraineeHuman!:) I'm not sure about indifference and how it relates to the ego. I thought indifference was a good thing? Is it not?
I guess I can choose to be indifferent about something I like or dislike, and I can choose to love something I'm indifferent about, but all that just goes to reveal the unreality of such things. Do good, bad and indifferent not exist at the level of Higher Mind?

I’m sorry about that confusion. You can say that the ego’s palette is one of pleasure, pain and neutrality, where the neutrality has strong overtones of avoidance or dulledness.

That’s something very different from indifference in the sense of true detachment. For instance, the root meaning of “indifference” is “no difference”, meaning, to see all things as ultimately the same. (Same doesn’t mean identical, but it does mean greatly unified.)

Whatever Source does is always good, I guess because there is nothing other than the entire universe, and whenever it acts in a fully unified way, there is no opposition party.

Shamz

24th July 2013, 04:28

TH,
This is a great exercise to try in everything we do...I have not really practised this before...but I do some sort of similar exercise only when something gets really screwed up for me... I try to smile and calm myself down... and tell myself... "it is what it is... deal with it" -
but applying this exercise to all the moments happy/blissful or sad... is going to be tough but nevertheless something to experiment and I am looking forward to it

thanks for all you do here and outside of course...

peace and love

soleil

24th July 2013, 13:18

TraineeHuman

24th July 2013, 15:56

dream post: when i was pregnant with my daughter in 2009, i had a dream that at the time i could not even explain.

i was soaring in space, i could see stars, and it was dark and beautiful skylike. at one point my attention is captured on a large eye. it IIRC was a left side eye. at that point i start falling, like as if on a rollercoaster. i immediately got the feeling where you lose your stomach and or comparable to the feeling of butterflies x100000000.

and then i land out in the country, where it feels very 1600-1800 like. and there was a cart, probably with some horses on it. and whats funny was, my fiance's uncle was there, or it looked like him, and he was being a character that is similar to their family traits, i think it was like being a goof ball, but with a no **** attitude/still capable. at that point i think i woke up. i thought i had "landed" so to speak where i lived in my life at the time. i cant really say for sure or expand on anymore details now....but this dream has always stuck with me since then.

As far as I know, from my explorations and memories of the afterlife, until recent times nearly everyone would choose to reincarnate into the same family or clan – depending on who their closest relative was who was having a child at the relevant time. Some of the Australian Aboriginals even traditionally take it for granted that the next greatgrandchild to be born is the same being as the last greatgrandparent to have died. In other words, they take it for granted that the return will be in the seventh generation.

In more recent times, my understanding is that everyone is given a choice of at least three potential parents suitable to the judgments the individual laid on themselves after the end of their last lifetime. And at least one of the available choices is normally, again, in the same extended family – perhaps the child or grandchild of a cousin, if they are the closest relative having a baby.

Do you have any memories, though, teradactyl, of what life was like in the womb? While my mother was pregnant I spent a great deal of time flying around, but I also remember how inside the womb it nearly always felt ever so blissful. Can you remember that?

The Zen Buddhists have a “number one” question. It is: Can you remember what your original face was, the one you had before you were born? What that question is trying to get at is: can you find out or remember that the ground of everything, and what everything is made of and ultimately exists within at a deeper level of reality, is bliss, however veiled it may get while we live within the matrix, and get brainwashed as small children into believing the matrix is real, instead of what we at first naturally knew to be real?

Freed Fox

24th July 2013, 22:21

TraineeHuman

25th July 2013, 03:02

In more recent times, my understanding is that everyone is given a choice of at least three potential parents suitable to the judgments the individual laid on themselves after the end of their last lifetime. And at least one of the available choices is normally, again, in the same extended family – perhaps the child or grandchild of a cousin, if they are the closest relative having a baby.

Is your knowledge of this process pretty extensive, or is it more bits and pieces of certain aspects? Furthermore, is it your inclination that this model of reincarnation is more or less universal, or dependent upon ones progression of consciousness, soul origin, etc?

Are we bound in any way to a particular planet or species? Do our preferences play a large part in the selection of our potential choices?

I would appreciate elaboration on the above, if you are able... Thanks TH.

My recollections of that part of the afterlife world are piecemeal, except for my memories of what preceded my current birth. On the other hand, I’ve compared notes with some very reliable clairvoyants.

There’s another stream of information I have had too. I only discovered that I had been a guardian angel about ten years ago, when some guardian angels directly advised me of this. But back when I was in my mid-twenties, almost as soon as I had learnt to astral travel each night I had discovered that by day I would have a whole retinue of people – most of them deceased – following me around throughout the day from in the etheric or astral. It was quite humorous, because during that period I had had a ladyfriend who I now believe was also a guardian angel who had volunteered to live human life. She also had her retinue following her around, but she had no idea it was there.

After a few years I found a way to get rid of any such retinue most of the time. But I continued to think it was humorous that most dead people seemed to mistake me for a guardian angel and expected me to carry out some of the tasks such beings perform in the afterlife – and also showed me huge respect because of the power of that position. In this indirect way I built up a picture of some of the things that guardian angels do. And it certainly became clear to me, eventually, that they were totally in charge of administering the whole reincarnation process. This has various aspects or stages. For instance, a couple of times, over the years, I enabled thousands of earthbound souls to get out of where they were trapped and move on higher.

Incidentally, you – your Higher Mind – are not your personality. Ideally, a person should discard their personality altogether at the time of physical death. Many try to hang on to it, but everyone eventually lets it go. There has been a gigantically huge amount of material posted in this Forum by individuals who evidently are quite unable to distinguish between the Higher Mind and the personality, and evidently 100% unaware that they lack the awareness or skill to be able to distinguish these at all – and evidently quite unable to admit this, or else to even begin to have any awareness of their ignorance. After physical death, the personality becomes a type of waste product. Of course it may then get “tortured” or whatever. It’s soulless, after all. Of course the guardian angels leave it to its fate.

I’ve also always considered the formless worlds of Light to be “home” for me. I’ve noticed that any individual’s guardian angels prefer most of the time to sit half in, half out of 6D, at the 5D/6D borderline area. For most clairvoyants, that is so far, far away from the physical it could easily take them a lifetime of exploring all the levels within the astral worlds and they wouldn’t get as far as the beginning of the formless worlds.

Yes, Freed Fox, where a person reincarnates next, or whether they reincarnate at all, is highly up to them. Yes, there’ve recently been huge changes to the typical pattern of reincarnation. Individuals often no longer return to the same family, or even the same planet. To leave the planet, you need to be very "well-rounded" psychologically and empathic, and relatively free of the ego. That much I know, but I’m not an expert. On the other hand, I know enough to know that Dolores Cannon’s descriptions of the afterlife contain all sorts of errors, but are still usually accurate (kind of) in their general thrust.

Does that answer all your questions?

Freed Fox

25th July 2013, 03:21

Does that answer all your questions?

I think so, for now... at least in so far as they pertain to the reincarnation process. Thank you TH.

On a related note, however, I must admit that I'm not 100% clear on the specifics regarding the distinction between Higher Mind and personality which you mentioned... My thinking is that the personality in this case is more or less analogous to the ego as we've discussed it here, correct? Even in this case, it seems strange to me that it would continue to exist in some form, separate from our true selves upon death. Further, it seems somewhat cruel to me that it should be 'tortured' and 'left to its fate'. You say it is soulless, but if that is the case would it not also lack awareness? That would be my inclination, personally. However, this idea that it leads some sort of limited, tortured existence apart from our true essence would also suggest that it has some level of awareness, doesn't it?

Forgive me if that particular issue has already been covered...

animovado

25th July 2013, 12:40

When i read Freed Fox post i remember my own objections concerning the statements made by TH and FineFeather earlier in this thread (if i remember correct) about persons high up in the power structure of the ptb and their soullessness and separation from their HS.
I guess this can be true about artificial lifeforms or some kind of possessions, where a body is just run by a thoughtform,
but i think that humans usually have a deeper connection to the lifeforce?

TraineeHuman

25th July 2013, 14:08

The personality is just a robot made of electromagnetic energy.

After our physical death, after it’s become fully separate from our Higher Mind, it has no (higher) consciousness. It also can’t evolve. All it can do is slowly devolve. It can’t ever know bliss.

Why is it that way? Why does the universe work this particular way? For one thing, I don’t claim to have all the answers. But if the personality could have higher consciousness, then it seems to me that then robots would be able to wipe out all biological life. I suspect they probably would, eventually. So, I would say it’s very important to have a universe where robots can’t be the all-superior, dominant physical or energetic creatures. And the personality is the ultimate robot in many ways, though of course it can be electromagnetically and otherwise technologically enhanced to be stronger.

I suggest you may like to reread post # 989 again, Freed Fox. You may like to revisit the second and third arguments presented there in answer to the question of how can there be negativity and pain in a universe that ultimately comes from bliss.

We are not victims of “God”. We are part of “God”. Not only that, but, paradoxically, all of “God” is contained within each of us, in a veiled state. We’re no longer in primary school.

Some things simply aren’t possible, at least not while the universe is the way it currently is.

Thank goodness we're immortal (or our Higher Minds are), whether we're aware of it or not.

soleil

25th July 2013, 15:07

TraineeHuman

26th July 2013, 02:16

HaulinBananas

26th July 2013, 05:23

While I’m taking time out to look at Source very briefly, I’d like to say some more about Source’s role in the “problem of evil” – aka “How could a loving Creator God be responsible for the creation of suffering and evil?”

Three arguments in “reply” to this question which I haven’t already provided in this thread go as follows. My first argument relies on your having done the exercise of feeling the aliveness within you – which, of course, many of you have, many times by now. If you did it properly, or enough times, then after doing it and looking at your life you’ll have noticed that there are far more good or positive things in your life than bad ones – that, overall, most of the time, it truly is good to be alive. And that we really do generally take good things for granted and complain – very disproportionately – about the bad or negative or painful things. Many of the good things are what’s “normal” or “everyday” to us, and so we don’t value them, and become blasé about and completely forget their presence.

If – like Graeme Greene and various nihilists – you don’t agree that you see that really life’s good more often than it’s bad, than all I can do is ask you to keep doing the feeling the aliveness exercise more carefully and honestly, and then observe what it teaches you.

But assuming we agree on this basic point, then that’s my first argument right there. Namely that what “God” has “created for us” is basically good – though admittedly far from perfect.

My second argument starts from the fact – as far as I and many others are concerned on the basis of experience – that the only “(ultimate) God” is the universe (not only the physical universe, but all nonphysical dimensions). So, the truth is there never was such a thing as a God who “created this world”. And to blame “God” “personally” for “His creation” becomes nonsensical.

There is no “God” standing totally outside the universe. If there were such a being, that would be incredibly extraordinary and miraculous. How would such a being – so isolated from all – ever be able to communicate with the entire universe? But anyway, because God (i.e., Source) is the universe in its entirety, any suffering or evil inherent in the universe is self-inflicted by the universe. No-one is alone. Source feels every bit of suffering.

Thirdly, I suggest the whole distinction between “creator” and “creature” is a false one. Actually, we created and continue to create ourselves and our own lives. We just don’t know our own subconscious and superconscious strength. If we are in great suffering, it is we who ultimately put ourselves in it – maybe our Higher Mind did this, and so we don’t have a memory right now of choosing it. But choose it we most certainly did. Source didn’t choose it – except in so far as Source lives inside of us.

In my next post I'll get back to the topic of intuition and "at-one-ness".

TH, thank you for this thread. Sometimes, when reading your comments, I wonder if you have read Tom Campbell's book My Big Toe, or watched any of his Youtube videos / lectures. There are a lot of ideas in common. I am in the process of going through his videos, although I did get "stuck" on his massive trilogy starting on Book 2, have reviewed Book 1 via the audiobook, and am working my way through the 200+ videos he has on Youtube. Your descriptions of Source and Higher Self, Personalities, and some of the OBE descriptions are often similar, although Tom Campbell uses a lot more acronyms.

TraineeHuman

26th July 2013, 06:57

TH, thank you for this thread. Sometimes, when reading your comments, I wonder if you have read Tom Campbell's book My Big Toe, or watched any of his Youtube videos / lectures. There are a lot of ideas in common. I am in the process of going through his videos, although I did get "stuck" on his massive trilogy starting on Book 2, have reviewed Book 1 via the audiobook, and am working my way through the 200+ videos he has on Youtube. Your descriptions of Source and Higher Self, Personalities, and some of the OBE descriptions are often similar, although Tom Campbell uses a lot more acronyms.

No, I haven't heard of Tom Campbell, but thank you very much, will check him out. I hardly ever read anything much, outside of this Forum.

TraineeHuman

26th July 2013, 08:23

Eram

26th July 2013, 09:02

fT8LaMrn_MM

To get one started ;)

Ron Mauer Sr

26th July 2013, 09:38

So far I’ve watched the first two short Youtube videos by Tom Campbell called My Big TOE. The second video (part 2) is a brilliant explanation of how and why different timelines get manifested, in very simple language anyone can follow. Very strongly recommended viewing for anyone interested in timelines or in how manifestation works. There have been long threads and parts of threads on the Forum about alternative timelines, but it seems to me this short video in many ways says more than all of them put together.

TraineeHuman, can you post a link to the video about timelines? There are so many videos featuring Tom Campbell.

I've watched part of the 2009 Toronto video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFpT9TbiMNM), and was very surprised to see two people I know, Dennis and Nancy, who live nearby.

Thanks, Ron

TraineeHuman

26th July 2013, 11:26

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6DPL6CSmc8

soleil

26th July 2013, 13:28

The ultimate seems to be total opening of the oversoul, though certainly in proper connection with the middle-head and heart.
perfect, this is where i was going. :)

HaulinBananas

26th July 2013, 14:10

Thank you for responding. Here is a link to Tom Campbell's youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/twcjr44/videos

I don't enjoy physics, but watched the lectures (am more than halfway through the 200+ videos). I most enjoyed the experiential exercises he did with the audience after the lectures, finding them to give confidence and opportunities for feedback. His Ireland Q&A sessions were focused on OBE, so there is information in there that is not part of his lectures. His lectures are laid out in such a way as to give a good foundation of his ideas using physics, and only toward the end of his lectures does he bring in his 30 to 40 years of OBE experience, or tie in metaphysical ideas. The Q&A at the end of the lectures are interesting in that he does give a little information on OBE, although he has said that he is not going to tell stories of OBE experiences since that would only set back other people's efforts in creating expectations of similar events/places when it is better for people to have their own experiences. Yet, I find the tidbits he mentions very interesting. However, the Big Picture he has presented has helped tremendously to sort out and frame ideas of reality, who we are, why we are here, how things work, what to do to optimize this experience and opportunity.

The most helpful graphic I saw in one of his lectures was one on probable events. It was of a circular plane that had various spikes or mounds indicating probable upcoming time events. In the center was a hole and the entire circle would move inward to the hole from the edges. The hole in the center represented Now. The far edges of the circular plane represented farther away time. Some of the surface looked to have small mounds (slightly probably event) and some of the plane's surface looked like spikes (very probable event) and Tom Campbell talked of how our Intent could modify the probable events, although the closer the mound/spike or more defined (spikelike) the probable event, the harder it would be for Intent to affect probability.

Apparently, optimization of this experience and reality does not include winning the lottery. Last week, I was buying gas and on a whim decided to buy a Quick Pick ticket. In my mind I visualized the above described plane, with a spike approaching the Now hole representing my winning the lottery. I gave the man $1 for the ticket and he punched some buttons. We waited. And waited. And waited. The man said he had never seen the machine take so long. After a while he reset it. And we waited. He said he hadn't seen the machine ever do this or take so long. The man left to go the bathroom and after a while I asked the other cashier if I could have some scratcher ticket instead. No . . . that wasn't her register and she'd have to ask the man. The man eventually came back and I asked for my dollar back from his register. The machine still wasn't working when I left.

Perhaps Source did not calculate as I did that winning the lottery would be the best probability to ensure a low entropy lifetime for me . . . ;)

Freed Fox

26th July 2013, 16:01

Well, this post might represent a sudden left-hand turn and could be rather controversial, but please note that provocation is not at all my intention.

To my surprise, I had another dream last night that was comparable to the 'tri-unity' dream I shared earlier. I could not have expected that, especially so soon. Although this one was not quite as much of an emotional rollercoaster, the emotions were very real and powerful. Despite there being more apparent 'negativity' in this one, the emotional impact was actually more positive for me.

I want to end this little preface by stating that I do not really consider myself a christian. I never have in the past, honestly. I gel more with the 'Source' view of the universe than the 'God' one. If anything, I used to think if there was an individual entity which was the creator God, it would be female rather than the traditional male conceptualization.

Anyway, 'ere we go;

In my dream, I was the second coming of Jesus Christ. It seemed as if I had only recently came to this realization myself, and soon after that, the community I was in had apparently followed suite. However, it seemed that running concurrently with these events was a greater proliferation of demonic influences which had been around all along.

One of the major themes in the dream was the importance and power of free will. It seemed that the aforementioned demons could not truly force anyone to do anything. They could only trick and deceive, and they had a strong desire to turn people against one another. 'Divide and conquer', if you will. They had many tools of deception and would appeal to any trace of anger or fear within someone to gain influence over them.

One of the strange things about this dream is that, while some of these things were demonstrated by the events therein, others I simply seemed to know intuitively. One such thing I just knew, was how the Bible was actually a tool for the demons, and by extension a large part of organized religion was playing right into their hand. It seemed to be at least part of my whole reason for coming here; the twisting and degradation of faith and the greater truths.

Along with free will, honesty seemed to be of the highest possible virtues. I remember just knowing deep down that I had to be absolutely honest about everything. Early in the dream this was demonstrated, as it seemed the devil himself (or a 'pure' demon pretending to be) came to me with some deception in mind. Despite who I was, it seemed that there was some hope they had of 'stealing' my soul, or rather corrupting/degrading/dis-empowering it through methods of temptation and the like. I can't remember the specifics of his attempt, but I calmly took him before the people in town and told a truth that I believe he expected me to conceal or withhold. As soon as I had done so, he fled from the scene.

The aforementioned people were all gathered at what appeared to be a renovated variation of my high school. It seemed that they had formed a new kind of society, with its own structure. And although the people there recognized and appreciated who I was, there were evidently others in the community who either feared or doubted me. I was not bothered by this fact. However, it seems that there were a few true demons in that community who were aware of me before I had arrived. They covertly caused a train derailment on the very day I arrived, so as to plant seeds of fear and distrust from the very start.

Some friends of mine requested that I settle a dispute they were having with their employers. I agreed to do so and left to speak with them. On my way, I ran into three older men dressed in suits who were essentially in charge of the new society which had formed here. They were called by some three letter acronym which I unfortunately can't remember, but alternatively people called them 'the school board'. As I approached, I could see (at first) a look of contempt and resentment upon their faces. There was a brief internal exchange within me, in which I recognized that the old me would have shied away or tried to ignore them. The new me had no worldly thing to fear, so instead I drew closer, unwavered but not aggressive.

Then, as I drew near enough, one of them spoke with a malicious sort of sneer. He suggested that I come along with them alone and see how long I last. This immediately confirmed to me that these men were true demons and as I met that realization still without fear, I began to see what they really looked like. They had a pronounced, protruding set of three 'folds' on their foreheads (like three brow ridges stacked atop one another). Their eyes looked very much like a pair of headlights; bright orange and almost bug-like. Their mouths were a bit larger than the norm for humans, but within them they had teeth like a rodent. Two long sort-of buck teeth in the center on top and bottom, both pairs very sharp.

I admit this revelation nearly elicited fear from within me, but I managed to quell the feeling before it fully arose. I also subdued any feeling of revulsion, disgust, and especially hate. This might seem odd to some but it leads to another important point the dream seemed to be making.

I believe there were three core principles or virtues being expressed in this dream as pinnacle spiritual expression. The first two, as mentioned, are free will and honesty. The third was love. If I maintained these things internally and externally as much as conceivably possible, there was a keen sense that nothing and no one could ever do me harm.

It was difficult, as the demons were not only fairly repulsive and frightening to look at, but also more or less the purest manifestations of evil. What they were or were not, however, was ultimately unimportant. The thing which mattered was what I was. I had to be above hatred. Above condemnation. Above judgement. Above every form of the negative, for any of it could be twisted and used against me. This is one of the major things I'm taking from this dream into my life from now on. Negativity cannot be met with further negativity, even if one is certain that they own the higher moral ground. It isn't right. It is fundamentally wrong.

So one of the men suggested that I follow them, alone, with a strong implication that I would come to great harm if I did. I responded with something like, "Why? So you can try to make me fall in love with you?" This was said in a sarcastic, yet sort of playful manner. The demon who'd spoke seemed insulted and immediately frowned and walked away. I think this response deflated the situation in a few different ways. Most obviously, I didn't give in to fear or any of the other possible negative reactions which would have served them. Furthermore, though what I said was with a certain kind of sarcasm, it also revealed to them that I did indeed harbor a degree of love for them within myself. This was love in the form of forgiveness, and I believe the mere glimpse of it frightened them greatly.

I then went inside where the 'employers' were. They seemed to be the middle tier in this society, between the common people and the 'school board'. As I sat down to discuss the matter of contention which concerned my friends, about a dozen people suddenly showed up, themselves apparently engaged in some sort of argument. It seemed that about half of them were friends of mine, and the other half were people who had become hatefully suspicious of me and the claims that I was the Second Coming. In this regard, I had never openly stated as much, but apparently as time went on people began to declare it as they witnessed the things I did and the loving attitude I exemplified. So while I did not claim it myself, it seemed that I intuitively knew that they were correct and so I did not deny it either.

Well, as soon as this roving argument reached me, it went to blows. I basically stayed out of the way. While I wanted to help my friends, I also did not wish harm upon anyone. Furthermore, I am quite skinny and so I did not estimate myself to be very useful in a fight. So the fight was waged all around me. I expected to feel helpless and inadequate as a result of this, but remarkably I did not. I noticed that several of my friends in particular were much stronger than anyone else in the room, and they were perfectly capable of handling it. I realized that this was out of my hands, but not out of competent hands. I realized violence was not my way, and though violence had been sprung upon me, God had provided allies who were completely willing and able to defend me. There was a strange comfort in that, though I still wished for some peaceful resolution.

After a time, the aggressors began to be chased away. One of them (Bobby) was actually the older brother of one of my friends who was there to defend me (Shawn). The two of them were fighting and Shawn got shoved outside. Bobby grabbed a bar stool before following him out the door. As soon as he made it out, he broke the stool across Shawn's head, knocking him unconscious. Myself and a few other friends gathered around his limp body, one girl was particularly concerned that he might be dead. Bobby stopped and stood there with us in what I thought at first to be remorse. However after a few seconds he reached down, lifted his brother's head, and began slapping him in the face.

Again, I had to fight a flash of emotion which nearly made its way to the surface, but this time it was anger. I thought, 'WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?!' I was astonished at how anyone could be so violent, hateful, and apathetic. I stemmed the anger and turned it into resolve. I saw in that moment that while Bobby was not a 'true demon', he had been compromised some time ago by one. Deceived into surrendering his free will and was now host to demonic influence.

I grabbed him and pinned him to the ground, firmly but not too forcefully. It was almost like I was compelled by a force greater than myself. I noticed a tall mirror that was inexplicably out there with us, propped against the wall. I dragged him before it, and there was an immediate insistence on his part not to gaze upon it. Despite turning his head away, it seemed that the demon inside him was powerless to do the same. Bobby's eyes suddenly grew wide and glowed like orange headlights, just like the demons from before. I started to speak, beginning with 'By the power of our father in heaven....'. As I did this, a long, thin, brown worm was pulled by an invisible force from out of his face.

So, that's it (finally!). Sorry about the length. :p

...And for the record, I'm in no way trying to claim that I'm the second coming! :lol:

Although I'm not taking anything in this dream too literally, it truly was quite an experience, and has left an impact on me. If anything, it encourages me to strive for greater ideals and a more harmonious internal state of being.

AwakeInADream

26th July 2013, 17:57

Hi Teradactyl!:) I do like the 'Sacred Space of the Heart' meditation, but I don't get any visualizations or anything, just pleasant feelings. It's the same when I do the Merkba meditation that Music told me how to do, here:http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59771-Human-Heart-High-Heart&p=683753&viewfull=1#post683753. Just nice feelings, and also the sound in my head takes on a more harmonious resonance. I feel I do need more practice with it.

The Unity Breath mediation from the same book by Drunvalo is more up my street (for some reason), although I do feel I should keep plugging away at my Heart Chakra. I remember the one time (years ago) I did have a full on vision in meditation (a scary one which might have put me off since then), my heart felt like it was beating really fast, so I'm guessing that the Heart (and light from it) is very important in allowing a person to see these visions. I wish I could see stuff in meditation, but it's just not meant to be right now.

Hi FreedFox!:) AMAZING DREAM!!!:) You've tapped into a whole lot of inner wisdom there! Free Will, Honesty and Love have always made me feel safe (untouchable even) where ever I am and what ever I do.:)

EDIT:

I'm half way through this Drunvalo video about the Higher Self. It's pretty fascinating so far!:)

KYrAgIJAW2E

P.S. Forgot to say. FreedFox!:) You are 'The Christ' BTW as I understand it. We all are.:)

Invoking the name of Christ in dreams always gets rid of demons for me, which always kind of puzzled me. I guess it's just another way of invoking the Higher Self, a subject I'm convinced that the man Jesus was all about. The return of Christ is happening now, in everyone that re-connects to Higher Mind I think.

animovado

26th July 2013, 23:12

Thank you for sharing your dream, Freed Fox.
I agree with Awake in response to your post.
The second coming is about the saviour in ourselves.

TraineeHuman

27th July 2013, 02:01

Thank you for responding. Here is a link to Tom Campbell's youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/twcjr44/videos

I don't enjoy physics, but watched the lectures (am more than halfway through the 200+ videos). I most enjoyed the experiential exercises he did with the audience after the lectures, finding them to give confidence and opportunities for feedback. His Ireland Q&A sessions were focused on OBE, so there is information in there that is not part of his lectures. His lectures are laid out in such a way as to give a good foundation of his ideas using physics, and only toward the end of his lectures does he bring in his 30 to 40 years of OBE experience, or tie in metaphysical ideas. The Q&A at the end of the lectures are interesting in that he does give a little information on OBE, although he has said that he is not going to tell stories of OBE experiences since that would only set back other people's efforts in creating expectations of similar events/places when it is better for people to have their own experiences. Yet, I find the tidbits he mentions very interesting. However, the Big Picture he has presented has helped tremendously to sort out and frame ideas of reality, who we are, why we are here, how things work, what to do to optimize this experience and opportunity.

The most helpful graphic I saw in one of his lectures was one on probable events. It was of a circular plane that had various spikes or mounds indicating probable upcoming time events. In the center was a hole and the entire circle would move inward to the hole from the edges. The hole in the center represented Now. The far edges of the circular plane represented farther away time. Some of the surface looked to have small mounds (slightly probably event) and some of the plane's surface looked like spikes (very probable event) and Tom Campbell talked of how our Intent could modify the probable events, although the closer the mound/spike or more defined (spikelike) the probable event, the harder it would be for Intent to affect probability.

Sounds fascinating. Even though, from what I’ve seen so far, Tom Campbell isn’t saying anything new, he is, however, saying it in a very simple way and in a way that the ordinary person – and the ordinary physicist -- can clearly understand it. And that’s quite an achievement.

HaulinBananas, would it be possible for you to provide us with some links to the end parts of some of his lectures, at points where he discusses some of his exercises and some of his OB experiences and insights? I’m sure that would be greatly appreciated by many of us. As has your drawing our attention to him.

HaulinBananas

27th July 2013, 02:45

Gladly.

The Ireland Youtube videos start with Part 1 of 6 (parts 2 through 6 should be in the right hand margin) These focus on the OBE experience in a Q&A format.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqkHfLnNiBk

Many of the youtube videos are sit down interviews of one or two hours. Some are of weekend workshops people attended, thus are a series allowing everyone access to the same information via Youtube. I hope that even though the metaphysical aspect is the most interesting, that at least one of the workshop series would be viewed entirely - he does manage to make physics accessible and it is not the traditional academic physics model.

The Hawaii Experiential Exercises were near the end of the lecture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD3eZsf4ijw (link to the first of 13 short segments)
This one gave me confidence and some good tips.

The Asheville lecture is broken into 16 segments, getting more metaphysical around [10 of 16]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbUCFA8roRQ
(This one I haven't done yet . . . this is where I left off until I could have some quiet time to finish segments 10 through 16)

I am adding one more, that is not a focus on OBE, but because I enjoyed Bruce Liptons work (Biology of Belief) about 10 years ago and this conversation between these two men was really fun and interesting to listen to. Both of these scientists work in completely different fields, yet the answer they came up with after a lifetime's search was the same . . . Love. Their explanation of how they see the world/reality work - side-by-side - with examples from their own research was a joy to hear. And, it was amazing how separate paths came to the same conclusions. I am so grateful someone filmed this remarkable discussion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjDQzCq6FdM

Tom Campbell's book trilogy is a massive work - not light reading after Book 1 - but he wants to make this information available - so My Big TOE is available for free on Google Books. I intend to finish the paper version, but was glad when Book 1 came out on Audible Books and am looking forward to Books 2 and 3 becoming available in audio version. The book information is not the same as the lectures and Q&As and the various interviews. The book is much more structured and a more disciplined learning experience - people who have read the massive volume have stated they go back and read it again.
http://books.google.com/books/about/My_Big_Toe.html?id=RYHtBPiZVgsC

In Book 1 of his Big TOE trilogy, Tom Campbell speaks of the importance of meditation and gives some various techniques to try. For me, imagining that I am a Point of Consciousness has given me brief glimpses of what successful meditation (without mind chatter) would feel like. When I get "there" for a brief moment, my body involuntarily draws in a big pure breath.

Thank you for letting me share this.

TraineeHuman

27th July 2013, 08:09

hi TH, i wanted to ask you how you feel about meditation on the sacred space in the heart? if you are unfamiliar or you are unsure as to what this specific meditation is, it was "given" to drunvalo m (author of flower of life) as he writes in "living in the heart" book. this was explained/showed to him by kogi mama's tribe (iirc from s.americas)...anyways, its a beautiful theory (so far to me) to access a beautiful place in our hearts. what do you think about this?

I’ve watched Drunvalo’s video, that Awake has included in his post #1140. It’s certainly quite true that one needs to have their inner child developed to a certain degree before one can be able to “receive” the Higher Mind. One reason for this is because the inner child on the one hand – which has links to one’s etheric or body consciousness – and the Higher Mind on the other hand both use and communicate through intuition of one kind or another. And it’s helpful to be able to tell the difference between the two kinds of intuition, and between the two consciousnesses.

However, in my experience it’s quite possible to put too much emphasis on keeping on developing the inner child, when what’s desirable is to “graduate” after a while to putting the emphasis on the Higher Mind. I’ve seen many people fall into this trap of over-emphasizing their inner child, and ending up being incompetent at things like office work and just organizing their lives. That was because their inner child would try to take over areas that aren’t its domain, and which it’s incompetent at doing.

I do unfortunately feel that Drunvalo’s (inspiring) video may be misleading in places because he talks about what he experienced in his own journey, but it’s unlikely others will experience the same things, and certainly not at the same points or as a result of doing the same exercises, I would suggest. It also seems misleading to me because it suggest there’s only one way to achieve certain things to do with liberating the Higher Mind, and that’s certainly not true at all.

I must admit I discovered the Higher Mind through taking lots of time-out with Nature, so he may be right in suggesting that’s necessary. Or at least it may be desirable, or a quicker way.

If people find some of the things Drunvalo says helpful and can put them into practice without causing (much) harm to themselves and advance further in the process, that’s great. But just because Drunvalo talks very dogmatically, remember that doesn’t mean that everything he says is true, nor is it the only way by any stretch.

I’m surprised that with all his contact with a variety of spiritual traditions he apparently wasn’t informed earlier on of the place and role of developing the inner child within one’s broader spiritual development.

Basically, folks, your inner child is the “little girl” or “little boy” in you. If you look at virtually any kid under the age of four and maybe over a few months or more, it’s very, very strong in them. In fact, it dominates their life. It just loves to play. I have ever so much fun with kids that age that pass by in the street. Their mothers always love it, because their kid starts being very communicative and active but in nice ways. I bring out my own inner child, and the infant and I are soon kind of trying to laugh ourselves to death through being super-playful. All the kid needs to know is that this particular human being is ready to play and have fun. It’s like the kid has been bored and was just waiting for an opportunity to switch into the playful mode.

So, you just need to make your inner little boy/girl much stronger, much more empowered and free to follow its impulses – which are always innocent and harmless, though in something like a business environment they could come across as naughty or inappropriate.

But having made your inner child stronger, you still need to cultivate stillness, as I’ve been describing – unless, as was presumably the case with Drunvalo, you’ve already done plenty of that before but you hadn’t cultivated your inner child much. or not enough.

TraineeHuman

28th July 2013, 04:50

In Book 1 of his Big TOE trilogy, Tom Campbell speaks of the importance of meditation and gives some various techniques to try. For me, imagining that I am a Point of Consciousness has given me brief glimpses of what successful meditation (without mind chatter) would feel like. When I get "there" for a brief moment, my body involuntarily draws in a big pure breath.

For someone who hasn’t learnt how to do proper meditation yet, the exercise of full-heartedly visualizing yourself to be a point of light (or of pure consciousness of some other kind) can yield some great insights into who/what we really are, if it’s accompanied by imagining that you really are that point of light (or consciousness), and totally free, and able to expand to any size you want (or even to be so fuzzy-edged you have no specific size), and that nothing and no-one can harm you or block you in any way, because you’re pure light.

Unfortunately, though, it seems to me this exercise is something of a once-off and doesn’t continue to advance one’s realization of one’s true nature and evolvement – as far as I know, whereas meditation does do that.

This is just one small point, and there’s such a huge amount of material we can hopefully discuss. I love to discuss exercises, because that gives everyone real experience, and direct expanded awareness of reality in some way. Again, thank you ever so much, HaulinBananas. I for one certainly intend to bring up more of Tom Campbell’s material in the next week or month or so, but first it’s a matter of digesting the contents of what he says.

Joe Akulis

29th July 2013, 16:46

There have been a couple of posts that have gone by that sort of made something click for me.

From TH:
"Ideally, a person should discard their personality altogether at the time of physical death. Many try to hang on to it, but everyone eventually lets it go. There has been a gigantically huge amount of material posted in this Forum by individuals who evidently are quite unable to distinguish between the Higher Mind and the personality, and evidently 100% unaware that they lack the awareness or skill to be able to distinguish these at all – and evidently quite unable to admit this, or else to even begin to have any awareness of their ignorance."

And in another post:
"The personality is just a robot made of electromagnetic energy.

After our physical death, after it’s become fully separate from our Higher Mind, it has no (higher) consciousness. It also can’t evolve. All it can do is slowly devolve. It can’t ever know bliss.

Why is it that way? Why does the universe work this particular way? For one thing, I don’t claim to have all the answers. But if the personality could have higher consciousness, then it seems to me that then robots would be able to wipe out all biological life. I suspect they probably would, eventually. So, I would say it’s very important to have a universe where robots can’t be the all-superior, dominant physical or energetic creatures. And the personality is the ultimate robot in many ways, though of course it can be electromagnetically and otherwise technologically enhanced to be stronger."

These nuggets of wisdom are helping me with a stepping stone that I've been tripping on a little bit over the years, and I believe it is due to some early Catholic teachings. You see, because they tell us that we didn't exist before we started this life, and all we ever get is just this one life, it has a way of getting you to believe that the personality that you develop over the course of this one life is indeed you at the core. And when you leave this life, that is the you that carries on through eternity. So I bet for a lot of people who subscribe to this view, to consciously get back to the higher self after death is probably going to require two deaths, not just one. First you gotta part from this physical body, and then you have to eventually part from the personality that you're attached to.

For some people who are more aware and adept, I bet the process of returning your consciousness back to your higher self is a very natural thing that happens rather quickly after this physical lifetime is over. But I bet for other people, who aren't even taught anything about their higher self, they wouldn't even realize that they are kind of stuck inside this spiritual "personality" vehicle that they so strongly identify with, probably for long periods. Very interesting.

One of the earlier big stepping stones that I tripped on for a while was about my concept of God. It wasn't easy to transform my concept from the humanistic giant that we're taught as kids, into the concept of "Source" or "Universal Creator" and things along those lines. It's kinda scary, and takes time to get through, but once you get there, it is very liberating. This understanding about separating from the personality is also like that for me. It's difficult to move through this change in my understanding of things…frankly because I like who I am. Although I suspect it could be my Higher Self shining through into this life, as opposed to my "personality," that I am actually fond of. Again, very liberating…

Thank you very much for this assistance. What you've done here is make it a little bit easier to understand why it's important to practice bringing the H.S. down into our everyday lives. That's the "you" that you want to become fond of and attached to, and to begin identifying with.

P.S. Things like this often make me wonder if indeed there were some very crafty individuals sitting around scheming about ways to use church doctrine to intentionally keep us from evolving. I don't like to believe this is true, but sometimes it's hard not to.

From a dream of FreedFox's:
"One of the strange things about this dream is that, while some of these things were demonstrated by the events therein, others I simply seemed to know intuitively. One such thing I just knew, was how the Bible was actually a tool for the demons, and by extension a large part of organized religion was playing right into their hand. It seemed to be at least part of my whole reason for coming here; the twisting and degradation of faith and the greater truths."

Yes, I share that sentiment in this case here. These realizations are also not a lot of fun for me.

Seeker

Joe Akulis

29th July 2013, 17:00

You know, Freed Fox, that dream you posted is a little bit like the one I had last night. (AWESOME dream, by the way!)

This one was similiar to that because I was present at a sort of gathering of top dogs, who were squabbling, and struggling over a good way to help keep Earth from continuing it's descent into destruction. In the dream, I felt as though I was one of these beings who was present while this discussion or council or whatever was taking place. But I certainly don't think it was me having a past memory of something I did. It definitely felt a lot more like yours, where this was probably just me getting a kind of metaphoric glimpse into some things past or present or future.

Anyway, I had a very strong desire to come up with a perfect solution to the problem. I then instinctively paused, and tuned everything out, and tried to focus my intuition to listen to my higher self. After a quick second the first thing that flew into my mind was: "brightness". Then I took a look at all these mathematical formulas and symbols that were up on the whiteboard in the room where everyone was gathered. I interrupted the banter, which a lot of people weren't very pleased about, and pointed to a letter b, that was incorporated into some of the formulas on the board. And I said, "Brightness. Why don't we just increase Earth's brightness? Wouldn't that be enough to turn everything around?"

The weird thing about this was that I sensed a lot of the beings present were not keen on having someone else come up with any suggestions that might make their own ideas or lack of ideas look less worthy. But I knew already that this suggestion of mine was going to pervade the council and would ultimately be realized as the way to move ahead.

After the dream ended and before I was truly awake, it was fun to ponder how you can increase a planet's brightness.

Joe

TraineeHuman

30th July 2013, 01:03

No doubt many members of the Forum are either ET Volunteers (in something like the way Dolores Cannon describes) or of relatively recent ET origin. As such, they were probably born with their Higher Mind already in effect activated. The trouble is, if one gets born here one acquires the ego in the usual fashion, and has to go through the whole process of deconstructing it. In a way this doesn't feel fair, because such individuals will often have already done the equivalent in the past, somewhere else -- but I guess the ego burden goes with agreeing to volunteer.

Whereas a typical person may not be able to use their Higher Mind very well until they've offloaded much of their ego, in the case of a Volunteer/etc we ofrten have the situation of the six-year-old who wants to play with a loaded revolver. In other words, the Volunteer grows up from childhood already having abilities and some psychic powers but too much of this is under the sway of the ego.

The solution which I seemed to adopt in my chilldhood was to strongly deny to myself that I possessed such abilities, except in certain areas where it seemed safe to have them or where my parents strongly approved. It took me a number of decades to gradually undo this denial and self-distrust, which had many layers. It was ironic, because often it was obvious to people around me that I possessed certain abilities, but not to me.

Freed Fox has described at least five dreams where we see the Higher Mind very much liberated and working. But if we consider that most of our dreams show us what we don't want to admit, that suggests to me that he also may have been subject to a self-denial rather like the one I had to overcome.

I suspect that Illuminati children would also normally be born with some of their Higher Mind abilities unleashed. But the Illuminati conditioning seems to be to subject them to very strong psychological abuse at an early age, thereby creating a heavy ego. This would "teach" them that the ego is so strong that it seems impossible for them to avoid being destructive "naturally".

Incidentally, Bill Ryan currently has a thread regarding "being invisible". Being "invisible" was one ability I would use quite a lot throughout my childhood and sometimes later, but I also was using it inappropriately, as a way to hide from attention.

TraineeHuman

30th July 2013, 04:01

I bet for a lot of people who subscribe to this [traditional Catholic] view, to consciously get back to the higher self after death is probably going to require two deaths, not just one. First you gotta part from this physical body, and then you have to eventually part from the personality that you're attached to.

For some people who are more aware and adept, I bet the process of returning your consciousness back to your higher self is a very natural thing that happens rather quickly after this physical lifetime is over. But I bet for other people, who aren't even taught anything about their higher self, they wouldn't even realize that they are kind of stuck inside this spiritual "personality" vehicle that they so strongly identify with, probably for long periods. ...

That's what anyone I know who seems to have insight into what people go through after death sees as the most common issue. Even though many of the more petty aspects of the personality get removed at around the time of physical death, deeper tendencies seem to remain. Unfortunately, many people remain attached to their old personality, and therefore their ego, at some level. It's because they're not clearly aware that there's something better than the ego and personality. It's like taking a tiny step over a deep chasm to try cutting adrift of their old identity for at least a moment. Once they do, there's no need to go back to it.

It's difficult to move through this change in my understanding of things…frankly because I like who I am. Although I suspect it could be my Higher Self shining through into this life, as opposed to my "personality," that I am actually fond of.
... It's important to practice bringing the H.S. down into our everyday lives. That's the "you" that you want to become fond of and attached to, and to begin identifying with.

Yes, the Higher Mind has much to do with genuinely liking and enjoying who you deeply are at present. But I suggest if one looks carefully at who they really are, at that deeper and higher level, it's too slippery to hold onto, too vast to fit into an identity. It's more that the real you can be anything it chooses to be, and you enjoy that freedom.

TraineeHuman

30th July 2013, 12:44

The following are my comments or notes from listening to Tom Campbell’s 13-part “Experiential Exercises” videos which document the end part of his Hawaiian lectures, Part 1 of which is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD3eZsf4ijw

One thing that I found interesting was that Campbell expects one to go into a certain type of detached state before commencing any of his exercises.

In the last video, however, he does describe his method for developing what I would call the skill of bilocation, but which he calls “multi-tasking” (to describe something at least similar to what I call bilocation). His method for developing that skill is to practice meditation but to keep changing the location and circumstances where one does so – so as to include the noisiest and most challenging conditions. Also to meditate lying down instead of sitting up, or vice-versa, and so on. I would have to admit that doing something similar to this was certainly one of the major ways by means of which I developed my own bilocation skills. It was something I avoided doing overly much, though, because meditating in public places or on public transport, and so on, can put one at risk psychically. (And as he points out, you don’t get detached by trying to somehow go cloudy or foggy! You don’t force anything.)

I take it, though, ultimately Campbell would prefer a person to have the skill of bilocation. However, -- I assume, in the absence of that skill – in the videos he expects the participants to somehow begin from a state where they are detached from the body, even though, I presume, they aren’t initially looking at, or seeing, anything in particular – and therefore not at any particular OB dimension or level or realm. My own personal experience was, after some years of astral traveling almost every night, that learning to master this “twilight”(?) or “in-between” state seemed to me to be more important and more fruitful for working on my own ego and also on those of others in psychotherapy. It was also for me the “launching pad” for all psychic healing work.

It was something I worked hard at developing and extending into a bilocation skill as fast as I could, and that seemed to make it considerably more useful. If you don’t have the bilocation skill, then you have to come back from the above detached state and back into your physical body slowly and gradually. If you can bilocate with confidence, the return into being fully in your physical body can be much quicker. Nevertheless, even today during deep meditation or intensive psychotherapy I can get much more detached from my body than I realize. If I try to, say, walk immediately after, I may lose my balance or other physical coordination – but I’ll probably be feeling so blissed out it won’t matter much, as long as I don’t intend to drive a car straight away, or cross busy street. And it only takes several minutes to recover all my physical senses even in a situation like that.

A number of Campbell’s exercises involve learning many mini-skills connected to psychic healing. It was very interesting that Campbell claims the effectiveness of a healing depends completely on how focused the healer’s intent is. The Part 1 video (of the 13-part Experiential Exercises videos) includes a brilliant explanation of what focus involves, plus also the first minute and a half of Part 3. Most of his videos seem to have a background emphasis on developing one’s psychic healing skills, but I can certainly recommend them all as far as accuracy of information goes. Admittedly, in some videos such as Part 2 and much of Part 3 he presents visualization exercises, but in Part 2 he keeps you moving quickly from one scene to another, in a way that I totally support for developing one’s sensitivity and flexibility in “astral sight (and feeling)”. Even if you’re not interested in learning about psychic healing, here and there Campbell makes useful comments about what focus or intention involves, or shows what they involve when applied to a particular situation. I do psychic healing in a considerably simpler way than he describes, though I do at least find always myself removing all the dark areas, or filling them up with light. The Part 4 video and the Part 5 video are mostly devoted to psychic healing, so some of you may like to skip them. The Part 6 video is a remote viewing exercise, which you may likewise want to skip.

Most of Part 7 gives a good explanation of why it’s a good idea to always do some (silent) meditation first.

The first half of Part 8 describes how to use intention effectively in psychic healing even if you’re a beginner.

The second half of Part 8 and the first half of Part 9 deal with more issues you may encounter in psychic healing, particularly in relation to beliefs and intentions of yours and of others.

The second half of Part 9 briefly describes obstacles to psychic healing which apply just as well to astral travel and other OB skills, before it then goes on to Campbell anwering questions.

Part 10 deals with theory of physics.

Just a sidenote: Campbell also mentions (in half of the contents of Part 11) how if one has eaten anything that contains any sugar, one’s consciousness will be too dulled to be accurate in any remote viewing work. He claims eating meat doesn’t affect one’s psychic accuracy, though I find that meat does make it more difficult to detach from the physical. Then again, people who don’t eat any meat can develop dietary inadequacies. I take a B12 supplement that doesn’t contain any cyanide compounds, which the cheaper forms of B12 unfortunately do.

TraineeHuman

1st August 2013, 01:46

The whole subject of the afterlife and how can we describe it accurately is somewhat confusing or strange. That’s particularly true if we’re looking at it from the point of view of what’s involved in “graduating” from this planet, if not from the physical world altogether, as I guess Seeker Joe is very interested in.

Obviously, almost any kind of OB or meditation experience will give us some clue regarding what’s other than the purely physical. But what is the really big picture beyond all that?

There are some esoteric traditions that claim that what’s necessary is what’s known as spiritual enlightenment – though they usually mean that in combination with deconstruction of the ego. What does spiritual enlightenment mean? To some extent it defies description, but one way I would describe it is that one becomes constantly aware somehow that not only am I part of the all, but that the all is part of me, or inside of me, and somehow present and active wherever I go. You can call this the point of view of Source, if you like. (Or delusions of grandeur -- though that's just one more hurdle to dispense with.) Notice that in a big way it’s beyond all knowing – which the Higher Mind is engaged with, even if that’s higher knowing. It’s beyond knowing because somehow it involves omniscience – not that we can realize or express that very much while we’re subject to the limitations of a physical body, through which it all has to be filtered. Though, if we have achieved enlightenment we can learn to train ourselves to sit down and tune into anything or anyone anywhere in the multiverse. That’s the “advanced course”, and it still takes a huge amount of practice and development.

All that (except the “advanced course”) just to become free of the great wheel of physical rebirth? Apparently so, according to many traditions. I’m not sure I particularly even want to discuss something like the Tibetan Book of the Dead, other than to say it says that after death you’ll end up at the level you’re really at inwardly (until it’s time for the next birth, if any), and you’ll select it yourself.

But working properly at developing and evolving one's Higher Mind certainly takes a person to spiritual enlightenment eventually. In fact, the quickest way I know to get "there" is to truly develop your Higher Mind. I don't mean by becoming a good clairvoyant, but, for example, deeply pursuing the love of the truth -- in the metaphysical sense. Love of the truth has many levels to it, including being very honest with yourself, for instance.

TraineeHuman

2nd August 2013, 02:13

We (most people) believe we are separate from the rest of existence.

In the end this is the only reason why we fail to appreciate that ultimately reality is so interconnected that not only are we interacting with every single other that there is, at some deep level, but every single other is also interacting with and penetrating us. The deeper truth is that there is a kind of inseparable unity.

Ultimately, the real, deepest “I”, which is Source, is just playing with limitation and division, in what’s really a kind of hide-and-seek, and hence with darkness and suffering. Can you see, though, that if you can stop being controlled by desire and non-acceptance, you’ll inevitably be dropping parts of that veil? You’ll be willing to allow whatever there is in the universe to interact with you more, and not in the sense of being a victim either.

Extending the same logic further, would you not then agree that what we consider to be “body” is limited; and what we consider to be “Mind” is also limited because it doesn’t have the flexibility to go outside “the box” of its ideas (in the higher sense of “ideas” – not so much concepts but intuitions or understandings); and what about what we consider as “life” itself: will that also not be too limited, perhaps?

But how do we, in a state of limitation, reach out beyond so that we can recover our natural state as unlimited Source? Apparently, first we need to explore knowing and not-knowing about what may lie beyond this limitation. In other words, we need Mind – the Higher Mind – as a kind of bridge through which we can at first glimpse and then break through to the inseparable interconnection with all beings, and with infinity.

The world, in truest reality, is born out of something that is beyond Mind.

Justintime

2nd August 2013, 16:15

Hello TraineeHuman and fellow Avalonians,

Just wanted to share what's going on with my own progress with OBE. A few nights ago I believe I had my first OBE, and it really scared the bejesus out of me. To be so terribly frightened of my first OBE shocked me. I've been eagerly anticipating the journey of OBE and have been following Buhlmans suggestions for about a month now. I use the techniques of affirmations before I fall asleep and affirmations while meditating with visual projection just about every day.

Anyways, I caught myself dreaming a few nights ago and in the dream I was in a great library and something meaning to do me harm was chasing me. I became lucid within it and said "Awareness Now" immediately the dream faded away and I felt my body in an intense, very intense vibratory state. Then, I felt myself floating above my body and there was darkness all around me. I didn't think to request clarity now, I also felt something watching me, and I don't know if it was watching over me or just watching me. Whatever it was it seemed to lurk ithe shadows and made me very uncomfortable. I started to freak out mentally and couldn't stand the lack of control i felt out of body. This caused me to be yanked back in my body. Once I was back in my body, I felt paralysed for a minute or two and still felt like I was vibrating intensely enough to leave my body again.The vibrations stopped and I regained control of my body, got out of bed and paced around for a bit. I feel like I have a lot more prepatory work to do before I go out of body again. Anybody have any suggestions? I do have a few questions about the experience:
1. Is the vibratory experience always so overwhelming?
2. Do you think I was so scared of the experience because I came from a scary dream?
3. Is it possible that the being watching me was one of my guardian angels and I just misinterpreted it because I was scared?

Also, after that experience I'm thinking it might be better if I just try and make the OBE happen from the waking state. The transition from dream to vibratory waking state was shocking for me and maybe the cause of the fear. Also, when I was meditating yesterday I felt a warmness vibrate over my body for a few minutes, it felt blissful, would this be some sort of healing work being done to me or?

Thanks for your help Avalonians and TraineeHuman

TraineeHuman

3rd August 2013, 02:36

Hello TraineeHuman and fellow Avalonians,
A few nights ago I believe I had my first OBE, and it really scared the bejesus out of me. This was an unexpected feeling as I have been eagerly anticipating the OBE.

I caught myself dreaming and it happened to be a scary dream, not a nightmare, but scary nonetheless. I became lucid within it and said "Awareness Now" immediately the dream faded away and felt my body in an intense, very intense vibratory state. I felt myself floating above my body and everything was pretty much darkness around me. I didn't think to request clarity now, I also felt something watching me, don't know if it was watching over me or just watching me. I became extremely uncomfortable and went back into my body as quickly as I left. I felt paralysed for a minute or two and still felt like I was vibrating and like I could have gone out of body very easily again if I wanted to, but didn't. And then I was back in my bed feeling very uncomfortable about everything. I do have a few questions about the experience:
1. Is the vibratory experience always so overwhelming?
2. Do you think I was so scared of the experience because I came from a scary dream?

Yes, the “vibrations” are like a storm at sea and they continue to be like that for a very long time – though I must admit these days I seem to be able to pass through them very quickly (in under a second) and calmly.

Yes, when one experiences them during the day while one is fully awake they seem less “stormy” and they recharge the whole physical body with life-energy. I have a theory that those rare individuals who live without sleep get probably several such recharges during the day. You’re doing very well experiencing such a recharge during the day. I usually only get them if I’ve been meditating for an hour or more – which I usually don’t have the time to do. I’ve noticed that the recharges seem to happen several times a night while I’m sleeping, and I suspect they happen to everyone then.

I believe the reason they seem so stormy if one is using the extra energy they bring to (partially) detach oneself from the physical body and enter the astral worlds is as follows. The ego becomes very worried it is losing control, or at any rate it feels it’s confronted with a new type of scenario where it hasn’t as yet learnt to exert its control. To “fight back” against this situation, or to control it, the ego brings up fear, and all that storminess.

3. Is it possible that the being watching me was one of my guardian angels and I just misinterpreted it because I was scared?

Also, in the astral worlds some parts of yourself – that make up your dark side – become visible and appear as if they are separate beings to yourself, and negative beings at that. However, your guardian angels are watching every single moment. Also your Higher Mind, your higher consciousness, is watching absolutely everything that ever happens to you. In my initial experiences of astral travelling, much of it seemed to involve just facing my fear and not letting it bother me and allowing most of it to go away, to dissolve -- and certainly not to make my attitude towards anything I was doing or experiencing rigid or anxious.

Also, after that experience I'm thinking it might be better if I just try and make the OBE happen from the waking state. The transition from dream to vibratory waking state was shocking for me and maybe the cause of the fear.

Yes, I soon got into the habit of astral traveling after waking up during the night, and then I'd wake up already out of my physical body. This is also the way Radiga's method prefers to do it, for example. These days I prefer to bilocate, which is kind of instant. Or else I'm in meditation or coming straight from meditation. Incidentally, we retain at least some degree of awareness of our physical body.

Also, when I was meditating yesterday I felt a warmness vibrate over my body for a few minutes, it felt blissful, would this be some sort of healing work being done to me or?

As I've said, that's just the very same vibrations, experienced as they really are -- without the ego's fear-mongering.

TraineeHuman

4th August 2013, 09:17

I found Parts 1 to 3 of the Ireland Q/A of Tom Campbell’s rather theoretical, but Part 4, here, contains some good practical basics. Even though I don’t agree with some of Tom explanations for why certain things work the way they do, I still agree with virtually everything he says about what one should actually do. (The reason I don’t agree is that I see him as a professional physicist by trade and some of his assumptions about reality ssem to me too narrow because to me they are too greatly based on a physicist’s mindset, even when they trespass into the territory of philosophy or psychology.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRrP3LUj7BA

One very basic thing he says is that if you think negative about yourself or what you’re doing, you’ll get negative results. And vice-versa if you think positive. This may be very basic but it’s very, very true. Not that one should somehow force oneself to be positive. Rather, one should relax and don't worry be happy.

I liked his description of ego as: “expectation, or fear of not being good enough, or of not being as good as anybody else, or “what’s wrong with me?” or panic and those [fears] can [then] run anywhere, and then you’re a wreck…”

TraineeHuman

5th August 2013, 01:24

We all have to discover Source for ourselves. For that reason, I feel a reluctance to say too much about it. It’s only when we stop using our reason and go inside into that secret place where the mind goes still
that we can get glimpses of the truest consciousness, however tainted they may be by our lingering mental habits and reactions. So please keep practicing stillness, folks. The real Knowledge, that comes in and through Source directly, lies beyond all reasoning (in almost any sense of “rationality” as we know it). It comes out of our sublime inner seeing of our own true nature and of how limitless that is, once we do, eventually, see it, or glimpse it.

At such times we see that a consciousness coming from Source itself can and does indeed penetrate into our world, and that even the Higher Mind is just a limited version of that consciousness or awareness. Source’s own consciousness is indeed everywhere, but mostly we see it through a glass darkly.

But the very idea of Source still serves as a kind of torchlight that points us in what direction we need to go onwards. This is why I’m willing to write about it here. And also because it’s quite possible for Mind to rise beyond itself, through its own momentum, into certain heights or planes of consciousness, in what’s very much an organic process. I suspect nobody has as yet been able, while in human bodily form, to replace their mind fully and permanently with the full-on awareness that comes directly from Source -- despite the claims of some Christians of a fundamentalist variety. Maybe it’s not possible, and such an awareness would take such an individual out of the world of physicality, because it would be putting that individual at – well, at the very source of the entire hologram.

We also need to avoid the trap of supposing there is something called “supernatural reality” that is quite separate from the natural reality. Source is already here, and it’s not separate from us except that, in a sense we’re too ignorant to see it and lack the proper self-esteem/humility to accept it.

TraineeHuman

5th August 2013, 05:43

Somebody may point out the following. In the previous post I deny that Source’s (“super-”) consciousness is a type of Mind. But I haven’t made it clear how Source isn’t “Highest Mind”, just a superior version of the Higher Mind.

Let me suggest two major differences, though there are more. Firstly, the Higher Mind always deals with models of reality – understandings, insights, ideas of reality – but never with the full truth of reality. I suggest that Source does deal with reality as it truly is. I can’t prove this. You have to experience – or be totally one with – Source. Then you’ll appreciate the difference.

The second difference is that while the Higher Mind sees the inseparable unity of all, at the same time it doesn’t understand it, because the Higher Mind retains a stark separation – between itself as experiencing subject on the one hand, and everything else as the object of experience on the other. It’s only when the subject/object distinction is given up and transcended that one is conscious of – or, I should say, as – Source. That's the true surrender and acceptance.

All Indo-European languages are based on a subject/object grammar. This means that the grammar implies that all that’s real must be either a subject or an object. (The ego has a field day with fear mongering about this.) But if you do go beyond subject/object into Source, let me assure you absolutely you’ll be existing more fully, not to mention more blissfully, than before. You certainly won’t somehow cease to exist, or in some sense exist less fully.

TraineeHuman

5th August 2013, 09:49

The way the ego dominates anyone it dominates is through desire. Desire is what has to be rejected, if a person wants to learn to go OB or bilocate easily and fully. I don’t mean that it’s necessary, or even desirable, to torture one’s body-consciousness by living on bread and water in a cave, or whatever.

But one needs to learn, gently, to not follow through on the impulse of whatever desire it is, in any given moment, that is pulling the strings of one’s thoughts, feelings or actions. One needs to create a kind of vacuum, an inner peace. Quite often, after one has paused in this way, it may be very right to consciously choose to follow through with where the desire was leading, the key word here being “consciously”. Not to menation “true inner freedom”.

If one replaces constant capitulation to one’s desires with a kind of self-giving or surrender to whatever comes up, the astral body usually becomes consciously free after a short time, at least in my past experience and observation. That higher body needs to become stronger than the ego. It needs to take over control, even while one is awake and immersed in everyday activities. Not only does astral travel then become “naturally” easy, in my limited experience, but there is then plenty of space for both the inner child to grow and for the Higher Mind to take root.

It really does come down to learning to do things – at least some majorly significant things – not for one’s own sake but for the sake of the Divine. And finding a way to enjoy it. This will take one’s intellectual mind and one’s heart away from the ego’s control. One needs not only to allow the Higher Mind to start coming down and setting one’s spirit on fire, but it’s also necessary for both the inner child to have the ego-free space to develop, as well as for an ego-free version or part of one’s astral body to come forward and start taking charge of one’s thoughts and feelings, rather like a caretaker, until the Higher Mind can descend fully enough.

This post may seem to be out of sequence, but it’s my response to what several individuals seem to be going through, particularly some who have contacted me by PM. Complete surrender, that’s what it takes, even at an early stage. You have to go deep. All of one’s emotional blocks and issues will still need to be worked through, through something like (self?-) psychotherapy or its equivalent. But if there’s complete surrender, such issues are no longer felt as a burden or obstacle. Then they lose much of their significance to you somehow, and so become -- comparatively! -- easy to resolve or remove. Even if one has “love”, it must be free of ego. Otherwise, it needs to be purified, and therefore given up. It needs to be replaced with the Higher Mind’s beautiful love.

Anything in any world can, under some circumstances, be dangerous – except for this surrender. Surrender, surrender.

Joe Akulis

5th August 2013, 19:06

[Edited] I'm yanking this post. I get too carried away sometimes. Apologies.

Joe Akulis

5th August 2013, 19:19

"The way the ego dominates anyone it dominates is through desire. Desire is what has to be rejected, if a person wants to learn to go OB or bilocate easily and fully."

Right now, I consider this my biggest obstacle. And I can see it at times when my dreams go slightly lucid. I'm all over the place, unable to shut down that mechanism that takes one observation, interprets it, and then follows that interpretation off into imagination-land instead of letting it go and continuing to receive.

I did stumble onto a meditation that I think is going to be very helpful to me in this regard, toward gaining that stillness. I was driving home last week thinking about the practices of "at-oneness" and using them to improve on our intuition. Up to that point I'd been thinking about people and things that I could practice on, and then it was like my HS piped up and said, "Why not just practice at-oneness with me?" Kind of a lightbulb moment for me there. I tried it that night. I got centered, grounded, found a light meditative state and set that as my goal, and my mind went into imagining that my HS was behind me, connected by a cord, and I started moving my awareness into that presence behind me, and started feeling the me in front of me getting smaller and smaller. I recognized the slightly expanded state of consciousness again, and it made me happy. I was able to relax in this state and just practice being there for a little while.

I get what you're saying TH, about not really being capable of gaining a full understanding of my total HS while I'm reduced to this 3d vehicle, but hopefully I can become familliar with it all and use it to ease my HS more and more into my daily life here.

I think I did get some intuition while I was there, about what I'm doing wrong when trying to use my third eye. So I hope to get some more time to practice some more things in meditation, but again, my main problem is desires. Just like they lead me astray mentally, they lead me astray in real life too. (Do I meditate, or do I play Minecraft with my kids... Tough choices...)

chocolate

5th August 2013, 19:31

Complete surrender, that’s what it takes, even at an early stage. You have to go deep. All of one’s emotional blocks and issues will still need to be worked through
Few nights ago I had a dream with an OBE- I clearly remember the feeling of being swung - and the moment I decided to surrender was the moment I went with the feeling of butterflies in my stomach- I remember thinking "go with this, don't try to oppose it" and off I went. It was an interesting experience.

Few nights after that it was vertically- I remember the idea was in the breathing - the more air I breathed the higher I went to the point of being somewhere high into the clouds.
I did not even try to have an OBEs. With me they happen on their own, [just like with anyone who is sleeping], but I have a conscious memory of those experiences, if not of all, at least of some of them.

TraineeHuman

6th August 2013, 12:22

my main problem is desires. Just like they lead me astray mentally, they lead me astray in real life too. (Do I meditate, or do I play Minecraft with my kids... Tough choices...)

Well, there’s still some time to play with your kids – which your own inner child probably needs a little of anyway. I find that many people need at least 30 minutes of good quality meditation per day, and many need fifteen or twenty minutes. It looks like ten minutes is enough for me, though longer usually means more bliss or joy. Some people need to split their meditation time into two sessions per day, and some don’t. It varies with every individual.

What the meditation does is take you into a space that’s so positive, that positivity will last for a whole day and help you usually not to be overcome by unhappiness or negativity. Very important to help you stay largely out of the clutches of the ego.

I regard meditation as a form of astral travel or OB experience (if some of it occurs in a dimension higher than the astral worlds). People don’t normally realize they’re OB while meditating because they’re largely looking “in”, but even in the lowest of the formless dimensions I’ve found that the distinction between “outer” and “inner” mostly collapses, so that in the those dimensions one is looking “out” as well, even in meditation.

Apteka

7th August 2013, 01:41

Friends, please forgive me as this is an extremely long thread and this question was probably asked already! OOBEs sound fascinating but one must ask, are there any dangers involved? Any negative experiences to be avoided?

TraineeHuman

7th August 2013, 02:44

There are potential dangers in doing almost anything. However, if a person has basically overcome the influence of their ego (and isn’t under the influence of some drug or practicing black magic), there is no danger in astral travel – and none in meditation.

The ego thrives on fear. In the astral worlds, whatever you think of you attract to yourself immediately. This means that if a person hasn’t achieved mastery over fear, or is largely dominated by their ego (as many people are), they may sometimes or often attract negative energies or beings, and maybe even many of them. Even then, though, if the person knows how to surround themselves with light or with healing energy, that will overcome the effects of their fear. They can also, if genuinely necessary, call on their guardian angels for help, and will then receive protection.

Also, Apteka, everybody astral travels unconsciously a number of times every night, almost always without any harm at all.

Apteka

7th August 2013, 04:16

TraineeHuman,

I appreciate your willingness to share your vast knowledge on the topic. There are some experiences that I have had that I now feel may have been the early stages of an unsolicited OOBE, I am hoping you and/or other knowledgeable members may be able to help me understand what happened:

1) In one case I distinctly remember an extremely vivid dream. I was with a group of people in a large, open grass field that was surrounded by a forest. Some tragic accident had occurred, I believe it was a plane crash (one of those small, private planes), and I remember running with a group of people to the scene of the accident. What struck me as odd was that the whole dream was silent, there was no noise at all, and it seemed like everything was in black and white. The more bizarre aspect is that as I was running across some hills to get to the craft I was suddenly jolted out of sleep. In an awake though paralyzed state I heard what I can only describe as loud machine like noises, almost like the churning of an engine or some giant factory machine, the noise filled my whole room. Eventually I broke out of this terrifying state, and have been at a loss to understand what actually occurred ever since.

2) Secondly, and this is not so much as an OOBE as part of the reason why I fear entering into such a realm, is that it seems some sort of dream-like or altered state of conscious is necessary to open up to the experience. What concerns me is that I have had a personal experience where such a state opened me up to an apparently negative entity. When I was maybe five years old I had a tendency of waking up early in the morning, just before the sun would rise. The early light would leave a blue hue in my room and dubbed this period of the morning "blue time." On once such morning when it was blue time, I was laying on my stomach and staring at my window. I suddenly began to hear Christmas music and see musical notes floating through my window and into my room. As I experienced this in bizarre amazement, I suddenly felt a weight on my back. The weight began to shift as if it was a creature that climbed my back. It began to tug at my shirt and make screeching sounds, and I had the distinct impression that whatever it was, it wanted me to turn around and face it. Instead I laid there, motionless, pretending to be asleep until it disappeared. I remained in that position until the sun fully rose and then I spun myself on my back. Suffice to say I was unable to sleep on my stomach for years after that! Anyway, my concern is that it seems certain states can open up gateways to other beings, and provided my past experience, I fear that engaging in OOBE may make me more vulnerable. Is this a founded fear?

3) Perhaps the easiest question of all, I had several instances where in a state of sleep I had the very strong sensation of being "stretched." Is this a sign of an impending OOBE?

Thank you for taking the time to read my very long post and offer any comments.

Regards,

Aptekarz

TraineeHuman

7th August 2013, 08:03

Aptekarz, that childhood experience you had would only have occurred because of some major trauma you had experienced in your childhood prior to it. The dark energy that jumped onto your back would have been at least partly, if not completely, your own dark energy. That is a dramatic example of what I mean by the ego. The ego does have, or control, some life-force – it’s not something dead.

As I said, a person ideally needs to largely deconstruct their ego first, before they explore astral traveling.

The way to dissolve and resolve one’s traumas is to fully face them – though they may be buried under all kinds of psychological armor, and that needs to be faced and removed first before the person can even find and precisely and fully remember the traumatic incident. Once the trauma has been fully faced, its energy will no longer be frightening to the person at all.

At least one needs to have overcome most kinds of fear. I did that before I went astral traveling every night, over 35 years ago.

I would recommend that you could consider working on meditation rather than astral travel. I notice that, like me, Tom Campbell says (in the sixth Q/A video of his Ireland lectures, the fourth video of which I posted at #1155) that he rarely ever goes astral traveling these days at all, but prefers bilocation and meditation – also just like me! Tom received personal tuition from Robert Munroe for many years in astral traveling, and spent some decades practicing astral travel. But, like me, he eventually concluded there was more to be explored, and more significant things to learn, than just that.

soleil

7th August 2013, 15:55

Estrella Este

7th August 2013, 22:41

OBE
the spirit comes out of me
simply
just exits reality

TraineeHuman

8th August 2013, 06:25

you know i wanted to add, that i've been asking and thanking GA's for their help. sometimes at night i pray and thank them, and i get intense white light fly by's. almost as bright as when i last mentioned them.

which brings me to a little question i have....is there any way to decipher who messages/intuition comes from? like i am confident i know what is my HM. but would angels be a little more or less communicative. i just cant say for sure whether or not i've received any messages, more like, just their help, like keeping me safe of the road etc, or while my family is sleeping.

Anyone who is able to see guardian angels (normally as very bright, very giant-sized lights, usually pure white) is very clairvoyantly gifted indeed. To be able to receive any communications from them, a person would usually need to be even more gifted.

You have mentioned before that you’ve seen dazzlingly bright and huge white light beings, so that suggests you do have such a gift.

It’s not appropriate to “pray to” one’s guardian angels, except in the sense that it’s certainly OK to ask for their help regarding any difficult situation.

As I understand it, guardian angels are expert at enabling small alterations to timelines as they affect the individual person, where such alterations are possible. But I believe they prefer to do that from a distance, and indeed from the sixth dimension. And then let the intention filter down the dimensions into the physical, to get materialized. You should appreciate that their understanding of “time” is different from the normal human one, because they come from a world that’s half “out of time” as we would see it.

It certainly helps to ask for their support, firstly because in doing so you are strengthening your own intention for a certain type of outcome to happen. Secondly, because you are giving them a certain level of carte blanche as far as interfering with your free will goes in that specific issue.

There are also a number of varieties of angelic beings. Guardian angels will bring in healing angels or nature spirits or other helpers (who come from a lower dimension than the sixth) to do some of the work. They rarely give messages, to most people at least, and are very aloof and detached. Then again, many famous poets and painters etc claimed that their creative works came via "dictation" from one of their guardian angels. But that's quite rare. I also believe that most chanelling comes from any old guide, or even just from the chaneller's own fantasy.

soleil

8th August 2013, 13:13

soleil

9th August 2013, 14:34

a little late, but wanted to share. its available on google, if you search. any mods can remove this if they deem necessary.

http://www.archives.lazymathstudent.com/_metaphysics/Campbell,%20Tom/My%20Big%20TOE/Book%201%20-%20Awakening.pdf

basically its the first 290 pages (total of 800 pgs IIRC) or so. anyways i've already ordered the actual book(s) so that i can keep reading, so heres the beginning to those who want to give it a go, and are possibly interested in buying it too to finish.

TraineeHuman

9th August 2013, 16:00

Thank you, teradactyl. I’d like to point out, though, that I’ve been drawing attention mostly only to Tom Campbell’s points of view where they are useful for understanding phenomena such as manifestation and intention, meditation, OB phenomena, the use of intuition, and so on. I do believe some of his material is very useful when it’s “applied”, but not when it’s theory. The former is also useful because of his years of studying astral travel with Robert Monroe.

I happen to have a postgraduate degree in philosophy and published research in philosophy. As far as I’m aware, Tom unfortunately seems to me very much an amateur beginner at philosophy as the latter is practiced by professionals. For instance, if there’s one thing that any professional philosopher knows, it’s the fact that a “theory of everything” is impossible. And that its impossibility has been ever so exhaustively demonstrated by the efforts of the best Western philosophers for over three centuries, up to the very early twentieth century, to formulate philosophical systems that could explain everything.

For instance, two of the most influential philosophers in both nineteenth century and twentieth century Western philosophy were Friedrich Nietzsche and Soren Kierkegaard. The central theme in the writings of both was “the death of philosophy” – where by “death” they mean in the sense of trying to explain or understand everything. The mind – even the Higher Mind -- has limits and can’t penetrate to “capturing” everything – as I have been trying to explain very briefly in some of my recent posts.

If Tom wants credibility with the professional philosophical community, it seems to me he could hardly have chosen a more unfortunate title for his system than that of a “Theory of everything”. As far as I know, that title alone begs to be ridiculed by any professional philosopher. It’s a pity he evidently hasn’t studied Kant and Hegel and the later Wittgenstein in detail, not to mention nineteenth century metaphysicists (in the original sense of metaphysics, i.e., that half of philosophy which examines what there is, ultimately) such as Bradley, and the history of Western philosophy and modern (post-Kantian) philosophy generally. That would be equivalent to at least two or three full-time years of lectures and study.

TraineeHuman

11th August 2013, 04:20

"The way the ego dominates anyone it dominates is through desire. Desire is what has to be rejected, if a person wants to learn to go OB or bilocate easily and fully."

Right now, I consider this my biggest obstacle. ...

... I hope to get some more time to practice some more things in meditation, but again, my main problem is desires. Just like they lead me astray mentally, they lead me astray in real life too. (Do I meditate, or do I play Minecraft with my kids... Tough choices...)

You’ve brought up some important points, Joe. I guess we can say that there is something called “will” in us, and let’s agree to say it turns into “desire” whenever the ego – or any unresolved emotion(s) – takes hold.

Unfortunately, an ego-free will is something that we need to cultivate and develop, if we haven’t fully done so. In many ways the will is quite neutral. Its most important function is often just to create or bring in calm, a gap. But the will has to slowly take hold, so that a person’s actions come to be constantly in alignment with the will and not the ego.

There’s a fine line here. I’ve seen many fairly advanced meditators being careful to avoid enjoying their food too much, for instance. It does seem to be true that initially one needs to be somewhat ascetic or stoical, and to repress one’s enjoyment of most things. But only initially – which, admittedly, could easily be months or longer.

Through strong persistence – which is also necessary for us to develop, I’m afraid --, the will needs to gradually make the ego obedient to it. This takes time. But the ego can be trained. This is conditioning the ego in a constructive way. It’s also turning the tables on your conditioning. Where in the past the ego has conditioned and limited you, now you are doing in a sense the same to it as it did to you.

The best way to develop the will seems to be through strongly developing the stillness that comes from and in proper meditation. This strengthens the will through calmness rather than through force, which is the more effective way to do it.

You have to make the will strong enough to beat any habits, and initially any impulses too.

The will is only a kind of caretaker, that makes the house ready for the Higher Consciousness to truly live inside you all the time. That Consciousness uses will too, but will (intention) is only one of the things it exercises.

It’s also possible for a person to develop a fairly strong will but still not be the master of their ego. Such a person may come to activate the Higher Consciousness to a significant degree at least some of the time. Such an individual will not, however, find the freedom from unhappiness. We all “fall” to our egos in petty or minor ways sometimes, but we need to ensure that where things really count, the ego is never the boss.

One final comment. The ego relies a great deal on bluff. It initially resists being mastered, and strongly tries to convince us that we've failed to overcome it. It's relying on us getting discouraged because of our apparent failure -- but that's what the ego is counting on, because the mere fact that it's working so hard to get us to feel disappointed means we're really winning already.

TraineeHuman

12th August 2013, 03:30

I’ve received several PMs from members feeling dismayed at how tough life in the physical world is – or that’s how I partly read them. Here’s my response.

Firstly, every masterpiece requires a great deal of patience, to overcome each difficulty with the minimal degree of fuss as it comes up. If you want to progress, you need to be persistent and have self-belief, but you also need patience. Giving up or being disappointed isn’t a real option at any point, surely, if you want to unlock your true greatness. This is a big part of what I mean by developing your will so that it’s strong.

Secondly, it’s normal often not to notice how much you’ve changed for the better. This is because what’s now the “normal” you is different from what it once was. But you may be the only person who will find it hard to see this. That’s because you’ve wrongly assumed that you remained constant and unchanged throughout.

For instance, Awake has had at least one experience of Source. But because he presumably isn’t having it again today, the temptation is to assume that it’s somehow been lost. The truth is, we never lose the transformation of ourselves that a realization has created. We just “normalize” it. But it’s still there, inside us.

So, the apparent absence of the wonderful effects of any realization are only apparently ever absent. And that’s because at an inner level the individual has expanded to something greater “normally”.

It’s also common to feel that one day or one week you may have, say, bliss dwelling inside you, and then it seems to go – and, say, a week later it comes back, maybe briefly. Or instead of bliss it might be the strength of your will or intention or motivation. Or your ability to have some particularly wonderful insights. And so on. All I can say is that the apparent absence of any of these is merely a reminder to you that you still have further to go. But don’t sell yourself short.

Another related phenomenon can be the feeling or experience of emptiness. Emptiness can be of very different kinds, and mean entirely different things. It can simply mean your consciousness is clearing the ground to prepare you for a leap into something quite new and transformative. It can mean you have reached true stillness – even, perhaps, a connection to Source, It can also mean that someone negative is draining your energy at present. Emptiness is never as empty as it seems.

I’ve just recently mentioned the importance of (positive) will. Such a will does itself involve creating certain types of emptiness. This is because it means rejection – a throwing away of certain things. Or at least a huge devaluing of them.

The ego is constantly seeking to drag you through the two sides of different polarities, one side at a time: pleasure one day, pain another, enthusiasm one day, disappointment another, and so on. The ego seizes on any excuse to get you to feel these things. If there’s no real excuse, the ego has no trouble inventing one. Or if your will doesn’t let it do that, then it has a field day being moody for reasons totally unknown – or miserable, or sad, or petulant, or depressed. There’s nothing divine about “divine discontent”.

You need to develop the will in such a way that you simply reject and cut off all such tantrums and moods. You don’t repress them, but rather you have insight into their uselessness.

The question is, have you already made your will strong enough, in a true, organic, subtle way, to beat all the despondency and the tantrums? If not, plenty of patience and stillness and perseverance is what will get you there, and never writing yourself off.

Freed Fox

12th August 2013, 19:24

I had an interesting experience last night, but this time it wasn't a dream or OBE.

Although I sometimes meditate in the morning or afternoon, I usually end up doing it at night, before going to sleep. I can see how this might deprive me of the energizing aspect of meditation, but I tend to find it easier to do at night, in bed. Luckily I never end up falling to sleep as a direct result, probably because I tend to meditate while lying on my back and normally I can only fall asleep lying on my side or stomach. Anyway, /non-sequitur. ;)

I was only in the stage of initiating meditation, by clearing my mind and letting the thoughts/internal chatter pass by. I felt that I was nearly through this stage, when I began to reflect upon an experience I had a couple of years ago, shortly after my current spiritual path began. Because this reflection was taking place, I was not quite in 'true' meditation yet, at least the way TH and I like to see it.

Now, I want to briefly describe what I was reflecting upon, but without opening the potential can of worms that is associated with it. The experience was that of taking psilocybin mushrooms, the third and final time I have ever done so. I just want to say that by bringing this up, I'm not advocating it in any way. It can be an incredible experience or a horrible one, depending on one's state of mind and spirit, along with various other factors such as the surrounding environment at the time, etc. This isn't meant to steer the conversation here in that direction.

What I 'saw' in my mind's eye during this experience was what I came to see as a model of reality. I do not assert this as a factual model but more likely a metaphorical representation.

What I saw was a massive, undulating orb made of countless hexagonal panels. Each of these panels was essentially a mirror. This is difficult to describe, but basically the orb as a whole was our physical reality, but we each experience it subjectively by living through (or looking through) one of these mirrors. Thus, what we experience are subjective reflections of what lie within us, while almost paradoxically being part of a unified objective whole. I then started re-experiencing parts of my past, people I've known, and those who have effected me and seeing it all as part of myself, or perhaps even that all of these people were somehow me. Aside from those individuals I personally knew, I saw Terrence McKenna as perhaps a past life of mine, in which I was living through a particular lense of reality which coincided with his beliefs. Another person I saw was Jim Carrey, but particularly him as he was giving the talk I have embedded below. The snippet is very short but worth watching regardless of how you may feel about him. I think I saw him in this moment because I believe what he is describing is essentially an experience of Source, or some glimpse/shadow of it.

qeSgJQO7JbY

(He echoes a bit of TH's previous post... "sometimes I'm on, sometimes I'm off").

Ok, so that's the thrust of the experience I was reflecting upon. Again, I apologize if it comes off as controversial or anything, but that's where my mind wandered.

As I thought back to this, I started to feel an intense pressure upon my forehead (the third eye area). It felt distinctly like it was coming from the outside, very much like someone had placed their finger there and was pushing with considerable force. Though fairly intense, I would not describe it as unpleasant. I decided to refrain from analyzing or questioning it, and tried my best to simply 'go with the flow'. To aid this, when my conscious mind tried piping up, I repeated a simple mantra (silently, in my head); "let it go, let it go." (I know, affirmations are a flawed device, but this was my resort as I very much wanted to embrace this experience and not fight it even subconsciously).

Shortly following this, my whole body was visited by a strange physical sensation. Yet again; hard to describe, but it was like a mix between a mild burning and tingling feeling. I felt like I was indeed going deeper into something, but exactly what I cannot guess. Unfortunately I seemed to come back out of it, the bodily sensation went away and the pressure moved. It was still there, around the forehead/third eye, but now it no longer felt like it was coming from the outside but rather from within my head. It gradually lessened and then went away a few minutes later.

Really, I'm not sure what to make of it. Third eye activation? Anybody else's guess is as good as mine. I would certainly welcome thoughts and interpretations of this if anyone's got them.

Thanks for reading. :)

Shamz

12th August 2013, 20:48

Thats beautiful FreedFox - and love what JIm Carey said too... gonna search for the longer version of the video you embedded.

thanks

Lalaji

12th August 2013, 21:44

Great explanation, Thank you! :cool2:

TraineeHuman

13th August 2013, 08:16

Here is an example of a different explanation of what (Higher) consciousness is than what you’ll find in Tom Campbell, and it’s not hard to follow any of it at all. It’s by Les Lancaster, a transpersonal psychologist.

http://88.208.207.58/playback/slides/playback.html?meetingId=1574bddb75c78a6fd2251d61e2993b5146201319-1375001432864&inf_contact_key=5cbc0504f6

The following is a summary of this talk:
In the second talk in his three-part series of 'The Quest for Consciousness', Professor Les Lancaster, Emeritus Professor of Transpersonal Psychology at Liverpool John Moores University, explores the interweaving of the mystical and the scientific. He focuses on the quest for consciousness in the sense of a search for a deeper state of being; one of enlightenment and union with God.

According to Prof. Les, transformation refers to a change in the accessibility of certain aspects of the mind. He states that there are two poles to this, both of which come from the mystical literature. The first is the notion of 'No-self', the idea that the ego is just a construct. The second is the notion that we can embrace the totality of all, so that all of the cosmos is within us, and that we are an inseparable part of the cosmos. All of the mystical traditions emphasise ancient practises which train the body-mind and enable us to awaken and connect with something larger. These practise hone our attention and our mindfulness.

There has been an explosion of scientific research into these practises in recent years, especially in the academic discipline of cognitive neuroscience. However, Prof. Les states that there is a danger when looking at these ideas and subjecting them to the lens of science, of only looking at half of the picture. This is because the kind of practises that are being used in research strip out the traditional sources of their deeper spiritual or even mystical content, thereby denuding the quality of these subjects and doing us a disservice.

Prof. Les states that he stands for the wholehearted embracing of these ancient mystical traditions, and says that if you engage with them, you'll find that it's not just an academic exercise; the act in the mystical tradition of working with the text, is in itself forwarding our spiritual connection with that which is larger. He warns however, against the blind acceptance of spiritual concepts, and states that critical analysis and a connection with the world of scholarship is vitally important in our day, because of the danger that we slip into an 'anything goes', 'easy play' mentality, which is not what the tradition is about.

Professor Les then goes on to talk about that the way in which we explain consciousness, depends on the level of the structures that we use for explaining. He speaks about the four structures for explaining consciousness, from the most basic level (Neuro-physiological), up to the top level (Spiritual/Mystical), and emphasises the importance of understanding these four levels when looking at consciousness in a scholarly way. Prof. Les then moves on to elucidate the central themes you find through all the mystical traditions. These are: unification, the reflexivity of consciousness (the idea we are in a dynamic reciprocal relationship with something other than ourselves), and the development of wisdom.

He ends his talk with this intriguing statement: 'Ultimately the unification of the divine is dependent upon humanity. The divine is seeking a greater realisation of consciousness, and that is the service that we as humans can give to the divine, to the mystery.'

Professor Les Lancaster is the Founding Director of ITA-Professional, and is currently recruiting for his part-time online course, MSc in Professional Development: Consciousness, Spirituality, & Transpersonal Psychology, accredited by the University of Middlesex. For more information, see: http://ita-professional.org/content/Courses.aspx?MID=3, or e-mail les.lancaster@ita-professional.org.

soleil

13th August 2013, 17:51

this is kind of a short recap. on saturday i think it was, i 'napped' with my daughter. instead i laid there and meditated, staying awake, and playing with energy movements. essentially i was just really hoping to be able to rest my body and stay awake and still feel rested after.

anyways, at one point i was in deep stillness, when i saw very clearly within my minds eye some people hanging out.
upon reflection, they were no one i 'knew', but i literally was nodding my head at them, in a way like "ya ya its working, im coming, im coming".....then when i realized i was nodding, i snapped out of the state i was in.
my challenge right now is staying aware, in the/that moment, in any moment.

i also envy others who take time to meditate alone in morning or night. im looking for a way to make it work. :)

TraineeHuman

13th August 2013, 20:55

[Jim Carrey] echoes a bit of TH's previous post... "sometimes I'm on, sometimes I'm off"

Yes, indeed. As you progress, your Higher Consciousness keeps going off again, on again, for a very long time, until it eventually stabilizes at "on". I'm so glad many of you appreciate this. This is key.

The despondency or depression is your ego's, not yours. If you feel you must use an affirmation, I suggest maybe the previous sentence is the one to use!

The ego -- and initially its hold over much of the inner child, which is "the emotional you" -- goes into full-scale revolt or depression. For, now it realizes it's being asked -- indeed, demanded by the will -- to change permanently. Before it pouted and felt moody, but now it goes to war. The impact of its "final" stakes attacks is what keeps making the consciousness go "off again" rather than "on".

I started to feel an intense pressure upon my forehead (the third eye area). It felt distinctly like it was coming from the outside, very much like someone had placed their finger there and was pushing with considerable force. Though fairly intense, I would not describe it as unpleasant. I decided to refrain from analyzing or questioning it, and tried my best to simply 'go with the flow'. To aid this, when my conscious mind tried piping up, I repeated a simple mantra (silently, in my head); "let it go, let it go." ...

Shortly following this, my whole body was visited by a strange physical sensation. Yet again; hard to describe, but it was like a mix between a mild burning and tingling feeling. I felt like I was indeed going deeper into something, but exactly what I cannot guess. Unfortunately I seemed to come back out of it, the bodily sensation went away and the pressure moved. It was still there, around the forehead/third eye, but now it no longer felt like it was coming from the outside but rather from within my head. It gradually lessened and then went away a few minutes later.

Really, I'm not sure what to make of it. Third eye activation? Anybody else's guess is as good as mine. I would certainly welcome thoughts and interpretations of this if anyone's got them.

Everything related to the third eye area is connected to dropping false notions/ beliefs regarding who/what you really are. (This also then unlocks talents, abilities, psychic senses, and creative imagination.) I forgot earlier on, in early April, to mention that Drunvalo's wonderful video on the third eye gives information on what's involved in developing this phenomenon further:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTNtPk_S7Og

And my apologies to Awake for not explaining all this some months ago, when he was noticing various third eye phenomena because his Higher Mind was opening up. At the time, I felt it was better for his sake not to conceptualize about that at all.

First you need to start experiencing at least one or two "rays" or "tunnels" of quite subtle energy, radiating out from the center of your head. The "tunnels" would have a diameter of around half an inch or more.

In practice, the part of the Higher Consciousness which a person initially manages to bring down is the Higher Mind -- once the "on again, off again" finishes, as far as the ego's attacks of depression/despondency and refusal to cooperate is concerned. And the Higher Mind can only come if you create the "space" for it by discarding more limited kinds of mind in yourself. And -- at least in my experience -- such discarding always brings third eye "energy tunnels" phenomena, that never seem to finish.

Freed Fox, you've apparently experienced the start of the third eye "burn up" in a rather spectacular way. I'm not sure it's even important to understand much about what it means other than it means "drop your existing identities", as far as possible, and just keep on doing that whenever you can. Oh, and do what Drunvalo suggests in the above video.

Shamz

14th August 2013, 03:28

Here is correct link to Drunvalo's video about activating Pineal Gland... that TH mentioned about. The video that TH embeded somehow don't work and I found the working link. wonder till when it will work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcNnpCukXPc

Much love

TraineeHuman

15th August 2013, 08:09

i ... envy others who take time to meditate alone in morning or night. im looking for a way to make it work. :)

I don't know what your domestic setup is exactly, but surely it would be quite reasonable of you to demand to be given fifteen minutes each evening where you can be absolutely on your own and not to be disturbed under any circumstances. Surely your fiancee could handle your daughter on his own for that long.

I've recently made some posts about the importance of developing one's will. Surely, if you insist firmly enough that it's essential for you to take fifteen minutes in this way, at some time or other in the evening, it won't be impossible. I assume you have some separate room that you could sit in on your own and not be disturbed in? Cotton balls can be used as makeshift earplugs. You obviously lead a very busy life, so you absolutely need that quiet time every day.

TraineeHuman

15th August 2013, 08:18

TraineeHuman,

... There are some experiences that I have had that I now feel may have been the early stages of an unsolicited OOBE, I am hoping you and/or other knowledgeable members may be able to help me understand what happened:

1) In one case I distinctly remember an extremely vivid dream. I was with a group of people in a large, open grass field that was surrounded by a forest. Some tragic accident had occurred, I believe it was a plane crash (one of those small, private planes), and I remember running with a group of people to the scene of the accident. What struck me as odd was that the whole dream was silent, there was no noise at all, and it seemed like everything was in black and white. The more bizarre aspect is that as I was running across some hills to get to the craft I was suddenly jolted out of sleep. In an awake though paralyzed state I heard what I can only describe as loud machine like noises, almost like the churning of an engine or some giant factory machine, the noise filled my whole room. Eventually I broke out of this terrifying state, and have been at a loss to understand what actually occurred ever since.

The plane crash was almost certainly something that has gone wrong in your life in the recent past. The fact that you were now looking at it is a very good sign, because it means you're ready to do something to fix the situation. It's not unusual to see in black and white instead of in color. The machine-like noises at the end were just to do with re-entering your physical body.

Perhaps the easiest question of all, I had several instances where in a state of sleep I had the very strong sensation of being "stretched." Is this a sign of an impending OOBE?

Yes. Just go with it, like chocolate described in a recent post above.

soleil

15th August 2013, 13:25

thanks TH, yes lately i've been thinking of the times of day that could work for me to make it a permanent daily thing. and i want to fit yoga in there too, like a double whammy. (i am not a morning person *cringe* :drama:)

ive been wanting to be more diligent with taking notes of my dreams, so last nights was the first in a while of which i've remembered.

in essence, i remember spending time with my recently departed cat. he was in all intents and purposes my best friend for many many years. and then when i got pregnant, had life priority changes, he kind of was there, but not my main go to buddy like he was. anyways it was very very nice to see him again, in all his black soft fur cuddly cat glory. there wasnt any grieving or sadness, it was just pure snuggling like we used to.

then i think similarly after that, i was walking in a basement of sorts, that had a glass wall, floor to ceiling. behind it were 2 pretty large (id say they were normal real sized, as i'm normally pretty small myself) orange and black (with white) tigers.

they, specifically one, was slowly walking towards me in a diagonal manner....at one point the floor to ceiling glass walls werent even there anymore.

the one tiger which was walking must have sense my fear...so it started walking more so over to me.... i instinctively felt the fear, so i attempted to center myself and raise my vibration or at least lose my fear so that the tiger would not see my as an enemy and see me as a friend. since up to this point, the tiger wasnt being 'scary' per se, it was just 'scary' because thats the way they appear.

it got to the point where the tiger was right there beside me, and there was also someone else randomly there, a bit in front, but they were just going on their merry way....the tiger put my arm/hand in his mouth and it gave me at least 2 teeth squeezes. i started to do some yelling in my dream that the tiger was biting me....but all the while still managing to put away any fear i had...

after waking up i remembered that the bite was like how my dog put play put their mouth on my arms/feet/legs(you know), in a not serious way just a playful way bc he is so big, and he doesnt really WANT to hurt me.... so that was the vibe i had..

[edit] to add more detail.

TraineeHuman

15th August 2013, 15:04

I know I have a number of dead pets who are happy to just hang around and wait till my physical death before they move on. They just send me friendly, warm vibes, and act partly as animal totems for me too. It’s amazing how loyal pet animals are, and how pure their hearts are. I think I recently posted the following video because it reminded me of my dead pet friends who are still with me.

This video is only one from the ModernMom series, which features hilarious clips of cats, dogs and babies, mostly:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60865-The-things-that-make-us-Smile--&p=713848&viewfull=1#post713848

I believe the reason the human race domesticated cats is because in the distant past the saber-toothed tiger was once humankind’s biggest source of trauma and fear. Similarly, pet dogs are a domesticated type of wolf, because in some of the past wolves were humankind’s biggest headache.

TraineeHuman

16th August 2013, 06:56

Any description of Source is always going to be partial, and therefore misleading. You have to have had at least some experience of being Source. Then you can say: “I see what you mean by that description. But, there’s more to Source than what your description covers.” Or as the famous Hindu saying goes: “It’s neither this, nor that.” In other words, it’s more a matter of what is left over once you’ve subtracted all the known. And you have to do that subtracting before you see that yes, there’s an awful lot left over.

With that caveat, I’d like to say that one of the things that struck me the most strongly about Source in my first encounters was that it was quite unmistakeably infinite in a number of ways. I saw very clearly that infinity does exist in reality, and that in many ways it’s more real and more vivid than anything else. And I don’t mean infinity just in the sense of being beyond all time and space (and physical or energetic matter). You already get that even in the lowest of the formless worlds.

I guess there’s a quantitative type of infinity that Source exhibits, which is a little boring, in a way. This is the infinity that mathematicians speak of. As anyone who has studied pure mathematics can tell you, pure mathematics is mostly all about those properties of many different kinds of infinities that can be expressed structurally, or symbolically. For instance, if you count starting with one, two, three, and so on, if you’re able to not stop that counting then that’s the simplest quantitative infinity.

The language of mathematics is also the language of physics. So, normally without even realizing it, physicists presuppose many types of infinity just by using the “language” they use to express all their formulas in.

I also experienced that Source is qualitatively infinite. For instance, I’ve already said Source is omniscient. This is a type of “infinite” knowing. One of the difficulties with understanding this, though, is the fact that some things are absolutely unknowable – so that to be all-knowing is only to know all that’s knowable (including the limits to knowability itself). For example, anything that’s meaningless is unknowable. If I challenged you to show me a (physical) motor car that’s painted both red all over and green all over at the same time, you wouldn’t be able to do it, because a car that has one color covering over its entire chassis can’t at the same time have a second color doing the same. It’s impossible.

So we see that Source’s qualitative infinity isn’t all-inclusive in the way we may think. Even Source can’t know the unknowable. And it turns out there’s far “more” of the unknowable as there is of the knowable.

animovado

16th August 2013, 17:16

Even Source can’t know the unknowable. And it turns out there’s far “more” of the unknowable as there is of the knowable.

My mind knows a lot of silly ideas.
When i am able of creating meaningless ideas of impossible things that are seemingly possible, what may Source be capable of?

Graphic by M.C. Escher http://www.mcescher.com
http://www.mcescher.com/Gallery/recogn-bmp/LW435.jpg

soleil

16th August 2013, 18:58

post edited, nm all i figured out where beam #2 was.

[edit]

i figured it out.

there is a better picture, detailed picture in the beginning, that he shows for a few seconds. :)

soleil

16th August 2013, 20:02

I'm half way through this Drunvalo video about the Higher Self. It's pretty fascinating so far!:)

KYrAgIJAW2E

im finally getting a chance to watch this today. and i feel that its worth a bump for those (like me :brushteeth:) who hadnt yet.

TraineeHuman

18th August 2013, 23:23

In my last post I talked about the omniscience of Source, or of someone who experiences being Source. This type of all-knowing, however, operates completely free of the kind of “knowing” we are used to. Normally, we tend to use ideas, or conclusions which are really just hypotheses, or accepted “knowledge” which is always incomplete – and all of it usually frozen into dead thoughts that are part of some matrix, but not of reality.

The way Source knows things is through never having any idea in advance, about anything – including itself. All-knowing always operates through utter not-knowing. It’s a kind of humility. It involves first giving up any pretense or belief or thinking that one knows anything, in advance. Everything becomes totally fresh every moment, as if both you and it are freshly born. And out of that complete but happy insecurity of not having a clue about anything – out of that very gateway is where all omniscience comes from. Source dares every moment to completely throw away any supposed knowledge it may have had, to be in the same moment forever surprised once again by direct knowing.

TraineeHuman

19th August 2013, 05:29

While I’m speaking of infinity, here’s a question. Where does the universe come from? Out of nothing? Out of some kind of arbitrary and unwarranted determination coming from infinity? Every answer to this question we may come up with will be hopelessly inadequate. To say the physical universe came out of one or more big bangs explains nothing about what happened “before” the big bang.

One form of meditation which it doesn’t hurt to do occasionally is contemplation, where one starts with concentration on one question such as this. And, once one has totally run out of any thoughts or ideas or answers, by continuing to concentrate on that question we are taken not only into silence – or something beyond words and concepts, at any rate – but also into possibly a sublime experience of what we were pondering.

Why did these particular finites come out of infinity – or, if you prefer, out of pure nothing? Science doesn’t begin to answer that question, except superficially. Science has no idea what “energy” ultimately is, not if you go deep enough into the subatomic. Science only knows what (physical) energy does, what shapes it may take. Indeed, subatomic physics is forced into admitting that at a microscopic enough level it knows nothing with certainty, but only probabilities and defined uncertainties – and that’s just regarding the behavior of subatomic “particles”, not their essence. Science explicitly admits that these questions about what physical reality is ultimately made of are unanswerable by science, unknowable to it.

And yet, at some level our nature is the same as Source. This is an unrealized level, however. You can say that water is unrealized ice, for example. To realize the ice it’s simply a matter of freezing the water. But it’s not nearly as easy for us to come to realize our nature as Source. Until we do, it isn’t our nature to be that. But through the Higher Mind we at least catch glimmers of the extraordinary deeper reality that lies ahead. Through the Higher Mind we gradually learn about what it means to aspire to be infinite, to be indeterminately vast and huge. Not Chance somehow randomly organizing everything, but a super-intelligence, a supreme Mind and Heart. A Consciousness that necessarily exists prior to all else.

animovado

19th August 2013, 12:07

To say the physical universe came out of one or more big bangs explains nothing about what happened “before” the big bang.

As a child, during the time i was interested in astronomy, i loved to play with the thoughts about the boundaries of the universe and the beyond, or the meaning of infinity. That contemplation was fascinating and touched me somehow - sometimes it was tingling.

The way Source knows things is through never having any idea in advance, about anything – including itself. All-knowing always operates through utter not-knowing. It’s a kind of humility. It involves first giving up any pretense or belief or thinking that one knows anything, in advance. Everything becomes totally fresh every moment, as if both you and it are freshly born. And out of that complete but happy insecurity of not having a clue about anything – out of that very gateway is where all omniscience comes from. Source dares every moment to completely throw away any supposed knowledge it may have had, to be in the same moment forever surprised once again by direct knowing.

Thanks TH, i always love to read something like that. That's very applicable for meditation or at least a good hint what it might be like.

To sit down now and dwell upon your life
and see what it means to be
without expectations and hopes,
without rejections or wishes and
nothing to hold onto or to relinquish.

It's a thrilling research...

Freed Fox

19th August 2013, 19:21

An OBE-related update from my end, concerning (in part) some rather important issues I believe...

Last night I came out of one dream and presumably into another. I say 'presumably', because I became aware of myself lying in bed, and nothing was strange or out of place about the room or my surroundings. However it must have been a dream because my body was rolling from side to side on its own. My immediate thought was of 'The Phase' and the indirect techniques detailed therein, so I just went with it (keeping my eyes closed and my mind blank).

I could feel the motion intensifying, but as it did some thoughts began to invade my mind space.

These thoughts, surprisingly (to me), were all centered around the theme of fear. Specifically, I envisioned a series of short movie trailers which were all of the horror genre, yet these were not real movies but apparently original creations springing from my imagination.

Let me tell you; I'm not a fan of horror films, mainly because I don't like bringing those sorts of elements into my consciousness. Furthermore, while I do end up seeing trailers for horror films from time to time on television (my family watches it much moreso than me), I am virtually never frightened by them.

These 'trailers' which I imagined last night were, by far, much more terrifying than anything I've seen on T.V. Perhaps it was just the state I was in which gave them a greater impact, I'm not sure (or perhaps I have latent Hollywood potential, if I was ever so inclined? :p ). The only one I remember specifically was about a woman sitting in a dark room, talking on the phone with her therapist. She was very shaken, trying to describe some bizarre thing she had seen. As the brief conversation continued, whispers in the background started getting gradually louder (soon drowning her out), and behind her in the darkness a large, singular eyeball opened up at stared right at me. This film was called 'Hysteria'.

Now, the clearest message that this seemed to be sending me, was that I have not quite conquered fear to the extent I had previously believed. I realized that if my own imagination was able to elicit such strong fear so simply, I clearly have more work to be done in this regard.

However I managed to subside these thoughts and indeed seemed to pop out of my body. In my excitement, I checked my bed and there I was; lying still and asleep. Now, even though Buhlman's methods are not what I prefer to follow, for whatever reason my first inclination was to make a vocal declaration of what I wanted to do, or where I wanted to go. I said, "I want to- er, I promise-" when I noticed my voice wasn't coming out very clearly. So I stopped and cleared my throat, and for whatever reason that caused me to instantly return to my body and wake up in actuality. (By the way, I have no idea what I was going to promise, or to whom. :lol: ).

Today, I decided on a whim of curiosity to look up the word 'hysteria', even though I thought I had a pretty good handle on its meaning. The second definition kind of struck a chord, and I'm wondering now if this has a deeper significance for me;

A psychological disorder (not now regarded as a single definite condition) whose symptoms include conversion of psychological stress into physical symptoms (somatization), selective amnesia, shallow volatile emotions, and overdramatic or attention-seeking behavior.

It's making me take a harder look at some of my tendencies, and predicaments... I mentioned before I have a health condition, but what I didn't point out is that it is believed to be caused by stress and/or genetic disposition.

Furthermore, I sincerely try not to be overdramatic, or an attention seeker, but I would be lying if I claimed to have no need or want for connection and validation. I derive these to some extent from this forum and particularly this thread... At times I legitimately worry that I'm being too self-indulgent or in any way even partially derailing the thread, but you guys truly are very kind and supportive, so I want to thank you all for that.

soleil

19th August 2013, 19:40

hey FF, i say LET GO!! and tell us anything that you feel, because what you feel is important.

and a lot of my own insightful moments happened upon reflection of why i am the way i am. and as it turns out, im not even those things! as we all find out when we meet ma'at.

on another note, i experienced some immediate improvements upon my dream recall after completing (day 1, as its recommended for at least 2 weeks) the pineal activation.

and on another note, sway = teradactyl. :)

animovado

19th August 2013, 22:50

TraineeHuman

21st August 2013, 04:57

Most fear is actually fear of pain. For instance, if a young child gets burnt slightly by touching a hot stove, from then on the child doesn't fear the stove itself. Strictly speaking, what the child fears is the pain of getting burnt by it again.

To conquer fear completely we therefore certainly need to conquer all our resistance to psychological pain -- as far as possible. Paradoxically, by being fully willing not to resist such pain we minimize how much psychological pain we get to feel – because we slide through it and beyond it, to “the other side” of it.

Some fear, at a subtler level, is fear of our own potential destructiveness. It’s a fear that for revenge we could totally destroy that offending oven – and thereby deprive someone of the facility to cook certain meals.

It’s also true to say that all fear is fear of fear itself.

It’s very important to break through most of our fear, because fear is the primary way how we limit ourselves. To act fearlessly is to act with power, and this is where the Higher Consciousness can come into its own. Courage always feels great.

I'd like to suggest, as emphatically as I possibly may, that virtually everybody is secretly terrified of themselves. This is one of the most hidden secrets of all. When I say "terrified of themselves", I mean terrified of their own Higher Mind -- and of whatever may lie even beyond that. This has a number of layers. I can only challenge you all to do your best to prove me wrong. And to show me how far you have advanced in that cardinal skill of being truly honest with yourself, no matter where it may lead you.

This is a secret because we bury it deep in our subconscious. It's one thing to be able to bear facing all the negativity of the ego. It's something else to face the blinding brilliance of the light that burns inner to yourself. Who knows how benevolently out of control and wild and creative that Force will dare to gloriously act, or where it will take you at any moment? Or how unbearable the bliss it often brings may seem to be?

soleil

21st August 2013, 13:35

im so glad you brought this up TH. as i am always being stopped by this block of fear. and its quite irrational, as in, i am not quite afraid of anything specific. i dont even know what it is that im afraid OF. so i can agree that i have this fear of my own self.

TraineeHuman

23rd August 2013, 13:18

Freed Fox, i like your posts very much.

In 2011/12 there was a movie titled "Hysteria" and, well,
it's no horror film like your dream-trailer, but there's maybe a little connection.
The story is about the treatment for women (in the 19th century) who suffer from a disorder of the uterus known as hysteria – a catch-all diagnosis for women who were suffering from anything ranging from a headache to depression to disobedience (the diagnosis was only finally dropped in the 1950s).

Well, the term “hysteria” comes from Freud, who in turn had borrowed it from the ancient Greeks. It so happened that Freud diagnosed well over half of his patients as suffering from “hysteria”. Most of his patients were wealthy, trendy, middle-aged Viennese women who were looking for a way to improve the quality of their sexual experience or presumably to re-vivify their marriages/affairs. This suited Freud, who had a theory that all motivation is of a sexual origin. That theory has now been thoroughly disproved, by the way. In Greek “hysteria” means “the disease related to the vagina or womb”.

From psychic healing we know – or I certainly know – that, quite mysteriously, virtually all disease does have a psychological origin; and that the partial or full healing of the psychological problem triggers the body to partially or fully clean up and remove the physical disease. The psychological cause may not be so easy to get at, in some cases. But the approach from the psychological or spiritual level still seems the easiest way. The only exceptions seem to be some cases where one is dying of old age, or else something like, say, a scar caused by a sharp object.

Unfortunately, with the exception of Wilhelm Reich, Freud’s students and colleagues didn’t follow through and keep Freud’s strategy of finding the psychological problems through starting from the physical ones.

Another interesting fact is that Freud, Jung, Adler and William James – basically the founders of Western psychology – all wrote a book on how to interpret dreams. With the possible exception of James, they all regarded it as their most important work. And they would all continually “read” their own dreams as a very important source of self-understanding and guidance, and as a kick-ass, no-BS message from their Higher Mind regarding what to pay attention to in their current lives – much as we have often been doing in this thread.

Unfortunately, the students and colleagues of these pioneers weren’t willing to reflect on their dreams, and greatly trivialized the significance of all dreams.

In probably my next post I’d like to say some more things about why such a top-down view of our physical problems may well necessarily be the most effective one, the one we were “meant” to use. That top-down view is in effect a view from the formless worlds of Light where everyone’s Higher Mind is found undisguised and unveiled. From that point of view, the problems of dwelling in the physical world are merely a game played for fun. It’s fascinating to consider, or even just to consider that such a thing may be possible.

TraineeHuman

24th August 2013, 13:34

We might ask just what this thing called consciousness really is, because the Higher Mind is our (higher) consciousness. But it’s not the highest consciousness, which is Source. Some of the stuff in this thread is abstract – unless you’ve directly experienced certain things. I find it extraordinarily fascinating, so please bear with me.

One thing that quite a few are sometimes aware of is that rocks, plants, animals and so on do have a vibrant consciousness of some higher sort in them. Have you ever felt it? It’s quite a wonderful thing, and always so surprising. Rocks do have souls.

It seems to be deeply buried, as in the case of a rock. But to those who can see it, it’s very directly perceivable. And it’s directly perceivable that the consciousness even of a rock acts as its Higher Mind, so to speak. Even though the rock itself seems to have no tangible knowledge that its “Higher Mind” exists, let alone that it is what is in charge of its entire existence.

Another way to understanding what consciousness is is to say that it is the most basic, the most primary, of all the things there are. For if we try doubting everything, the one thing that we cannot doubt is that someone does exist who is doing that doubting. (Sorry, I had to go very philosophical for a sentence or so.) This is the most certain truth there is, at least for us in our human form. I know, you’re probably thinking that all this is ridiculously obvious. The point is, it actually proves that the most certain and “solid” thing of all is not gold or bedrock or some laws of physics or of logic or math. No, the most certain, most basic thing of all is this meta-ethereal thing we know as (higher) consciousness. It’s kind of “thinner” and less pindownable than air. I find that incredibly awe-inspiring. The most certain thing of all has no fixed location, no identity, no frequency, no nothing. It’s too subtle for any such things.

If I may be forgiven for going particularly philosophical again, notice that the consciousness which does the doubting doesn’t possess or control merely what the lower consciousness has -- such as touch, sight, hearing. No, this consciousness also has the extraordinary capacity to stop knowing all – to not-know absolutely all that it’s possible to not-know. The only thing it can’t not-know is the knower, which is itself.

So, we have the extraordinary conclusion that our (Higher) consciousness is the most basic and certain thing of all regardless of how rarely we may become aware even of its existence, let alone its great power, which also is always there.

And let’s not forget that this Higher Mind/Consciousness is simply us at a deeper and truer level. We might then like to ask why, or how, does it continually impose its own idea of order onto the world in which you live? In this thread I have obviously suggested that a higher “octave” again of this consciousness, namely Source, in some sense continuously keeps creating the world out of the world’s state of unawareness. But clearly, (higher) consciousness is also a great creative force operating in our own individual life.

Our lower consciousness can’t perceive the higher consciousness directly at all. That is because our lower consciousness in itself hasn’t evolved to the point where it’s capable of being aware of the latter – or even of itself. The latter can’t be touched or smelt or seen.

One puzzle this brings us is, if the higher consciousness is so vast and powerful, why are our lives so littered with random unpleasantness and apparently so much crude meaninglessness? Why can’t our higher consciousness do a better job at creating a decent life and world for us, at levels other than the physical though including the physical also?

The only answer to that question is that the higher consciousness is itself struggling with the limitations of its veiledness, including in us. It is itself fighting to break through. We have already seem how the veiledness is so great in the case of a rock, but much less so in a human being, relatively speaking. Actually, it reminds me of how Leibniz claimed he had proved this is the best of all possible worlds. Voltaire pointed out that Leibniz’s own theory also equally implied that every evil in our world is supposedly necessary and unavoidable.

Notice also that the Higher consciousness needs a physical body in order to manifest itself in the world of physical matter – and the astral bodies so it can manifest in “the fourth dimension” and “the fifth dimension”. It needs the physical senses to get feedback about how its intentions and will formations and ideas play out in the world of physical matter and limitation.

Higher consciousness is a kind of higher “octave” of what we normally call life (or “energy”). The extraordinary thing is that biological life does not and cannot fully know itself and observe itself. To do so is reserved for beings such as us, or higher.

Freed Fox

24th August 2013, 16:55

I have to admit, although I'm not doubting the premise that you've described above TH, I can't fathom why a rock might be imbued with consciousness. It would seem a rather hellish incarnation to endure, unless it was in some sort of constant state of bliss and entirely unaware of its physical surroundings. Otherwise, it's completely unable to act (or interact), and at the mercy of everything around it... (Not unlike plants, I suppose). I guess my question would be, is there a particular or specific purpose for consciousness to exist at such a seemingly limited level, or is it simply by virtue of Source essentially permeating all things?

Also, though I have personally only grazed the surface of the following material, what you've described seems to be more or less in agreement with the Hylozoics model of consciousness as outlined here: http://www.laurency.com/KVe/kr4.pdf . It also explains minerals (such as rocks) as possessing consciousness, and that such is the first level of development when spirit comes into physicality (progressing from there to the levels of plants, animals, and humans). This comparison may be inaccurate or off topic and, if so, I apologize. I don't personally recall if you have commented on this material or not.

At any rate, I'll be looking forward to further explanation/expansion, along the lines you've already been describing. Fascinating stuff. :)

TraineeHuman

25th August 2013, 00:37

Rocks don’t suffer in anything like the way humans do, Freed Fox. For a rock, being pushed around is fine. This is because rocks don’t seem to have any clear sense of individual self. The same with animals, unless they’ve had interaction with humans, particularly as pets, and even then they’re more immersed, via instinct, in the common consciousness of their species. So, even pets don’t feel pain and so on as intensely as humans do. They don’t have much of a notion of self-pity.

I suspect the reason our pets may hang around in the astral waiting till we die so they can be re-united with us is that we’re the only means they’ve had of starting to become aware of themselves as individual.

I haven’t read the Hylozoics material. It seems to be an attempt to improve on such things as Blavatsky. That’s good, because I do know for fact that some of Blavatsky’s notions were inaccurate – even if less misleading than, say, conventional Christianity.

I don’t read other people’s doctrines. I only “read” what I am given to experience or understand directly. One thing I noticed in the Hylozoics material was that there are planetary rulers. I can affirm that I know from direct experience that the planet is ruled by an extremely benevolent being, who seems to be replaced by another similar being every several thousand years. I do know I’ve had direct contact with the very great, very benevolent God whom I know as Pan, and that he has occupied the position of planetary ruler of Earth many, many times, going back into the mists of time. Archons – which is presumably what Lucifer/Jahweh is – don’t actually rule the planet at all, contrary to the apparent beliefs of many members here. They are only given free rein to do certain terrible things for a time because it suits the very long-term, ultimately very constructive purposes of the true planetary ruler. People should completely stop believing anything they read. They should either find out for themselves for sure, or else be honest enough to admit they don’t know.

TraineeHuman

25th August 2013, 13:39

For me “out of body” only makes true sense when it means “beyond any body” – that is, in the free-floating stillness or bliss of the Higher Mind.

It makes true sense because it’s only while we’re in touch with the Higher Mind that we see directly that the world, even existence itself, is undeniably a positive thing in its very core nature, that it’s great just to be alive.

The aim is to keep at least a sense and feeling of that positivity at all times. Then it doesn’t matter what work you do, what stranger or customer you meet, what partner you have, and so on. Though, if you have a negative enough partner or workplace, you may well need to swap them ASAP with someone or some place more positive.

To some, of course, utter stillness may sound ridiculously simple – and unnecessary. The trouble is, one half or side of your Higher Mind – and that’s half of the better half of you yourself! – actually is a piece of alive, intelligent stillness. Without it, strangely enough perhaps, you are simply never complete, and therefore never truly happy deep down. The Higher Mind is the answer – to everything. It’s the missing piece people are really searching for when they seek ‘the meaning of life”, if you’ll pardon the cliché.

In a very strange way that defies words but is what everyone experiences when they experience the Higher Mind, the latter has two sides. One side is the stillness. Its simplicity is deceptive in so many ways. For instance, it’s beyond “time”, because it only recognizes the eternal Now, which is the true time. That doesn’t mean, though, that all “time” gets somehow compressed into one zillionth of a second or less! Being truly, simply still always automatically means skillfully holding all complexities together in a state of perfect balance. And that stillness, if experienced fully, is the most delicious and the most satisfying of all human experiences, I believe.

The other side to the Higher Mind is positivity, if not outright bliss. And there’s more to that side too, as I’ll try to explain a little.

At any of the many levels of the Higher Mind, and indeed of Source as well, we experience these two contradictory sides. On the one hand there is a pure silence or emptiness, which at first may feel bizarre to you if you experience it strongly all at once. This silence is deeply at rest but ever so deeply contented and self-sufficient. On the other hand, we have not only positivity but empathy and understanding, plus a great creative power always looking for things to positive-fy. (I mean, to turn positive.) It seems to have a boundless number of qualities, every one of them good.

What can it be that holds these two quite opposite aspects of Higher Mind so inseparably together? Well, whatever it is, I’m pretty sure it’s unknowable. A “detachment” or “transcendence” of the ultimate sort, that much is for sure.

And out of that unknowable whatever, it seems that everything, impossibly, gets created. Not only that. This unknowable whatever can’t create something out of nothing. It can only create – out of its own fabric, out of itself! Whatever it is we are made out of it, we are in reality cut from that golden cloth.

Concealed inside its great stillness, the Higher Mind holds many secrets. For instance, for it all possible timelines are perceived simultaneously. Possibilities and actualities for it are intertwined into a whole, complete with how they interrelate. That’s what I call Higher imagination!

The reason people struggle with the notion of other timelines is that unless we fully use our Higher Mind, we don’t set free the creative genius to do a walkthrough of the entire creative process because we could see all possibilities clearly, just as if they had all been made fully actual.

TraineeHuman

26th August 2013, 13:40

“Knowing” is something whose essence we don’t understand. That applies even to the Higher Mind’s knowing, and even to Source’s (“all”-)knowing. All knowing is flawed – it always includes so much that’s unknown, no matter what we may try.

So, may I suggest the way to know most accurately is to do the same as what Source does.

I guess the art of archery as traditionally practiced in Zen Buddhism kind of points towards this. In Zen archery, the aim is to learn how to hit the target every time while blindfolded – i.e., while you’re in complete unknowing, visually. The way you learn to do it involves totally letting go of all that’s known about how to hit that target. Then, bingo! after enough practice you get the accurate information, for that moment only, and you hit the target. This really happens to Zen Buddhist archers.

In astral travel you “hit the target” by completely letting go of your physical body. In meditation you do it by letting go of the ego’s superficial chattering thoughts related to survival, and also of thinking in general.

What about in everyday life? If every moment you kept completely letting go of any identity for yourself – even if much the same identity kept on coming back the next moment – what would happen? Can you live your life as a permanently “lost” person?

Mainly through PMs, I’ve discovered there are quite a few other members who like me are of recent ET origin. For the likes of us, one trap in living the “continually lost” or “forever letting go” life is that we can get trapped in naivety. This seems to mainly apply in the first three or four decades of life. I guess it occurs because we have such a strong sense that so many things in the culture and civilization aren’t being done the way they should be, the way they were in the planet or world we’ve been used to in our recent past.

As you learn to “get lost”, you’ll probably have some strange incidents of having to re-learn some things. Don’t be surprised if one day you’ll find it necessary to re-learn how to walk, or drive, to give maybe the most dramatic examples. You may find it necessary at different times to re-learn all sorts of bodily movements and habits. Another example is that you may have to painfully and laboriously re-teach yourself the skill of memorizing information, because you’ll be to preoccupied with unknowing. You may have mornings where you wake up and you initially have no idea where you are, or who you are. (And I assume you’re not suffering from early Alzheimers or some brain injury.)

In mainstream Western culture we are somewhat strongly influenced, particularly via Christianity and Judaism, by something that’s known as Platonism. In its ancient Egyptian / ancient Hebrew form it goes back to before Plato and Plotinus. But the part of Platonism I’m focusing on is the part that claims that if you grasp the concept of a thing, then you have grasped the full essence of that thing. Plato didn’t seem to appreciate that concepts only point towards their meaning; that the word is not the thing itself. I guess this explains why certain types of Christians believe with total certainty that such-and-such is precisely “what God wants” today or even “what God tells them” specifically today. They use the word “God” very freely, as if they were talking about Fred who’s been living next door for years. I see this as another example of the Platonic influence, creating the illusion that one fully and completely “knows” all sorts of deep realities which one may not know truly at all.

animovado

27th August 2013, 11:03

As you learn to “get lost”, you’ll probably have some strange incidents of having to re-learn some things.

I remember a moment were it wasn't possible for me to read my own writing. It was like this ancient cuneiform. I knew that it had a meaning but it made no sense anymore to me and so it had a really strange beauty. After maybe half an hour it came back to me, my "left-brainer".

I heard also from several meditating people that they had problems of orientation in their daily life sometimes.

Perhaps it needs some practice with the newly achieved freedoms...,
as ever.

TraineeHuman

27th August 2013, 13:40

Continuing about the knowing that comes from the Higher Mind, let’s be clear that this is intuitive knowing – and it’s quite distinct from (lower) intellectual knowing.

At some point your intuition starts to “speak” to you more and more, to flow through you more and more, stronger and stronger – stronger because it gets easier and easier for you to pay attention to it.

It’s a bit befuddling for the (lower) mind, because your intuition frequently hits bulls-eyes “blindfolded”. And the intuition in a flash knows things the (lower) mind would never hope to know. It plucks these things out of nothing, out of thin air.

The intuition readily makes “lateral” jumps. It connects things which seemed quite dissimilar. But the connections it makes are usually more helpful than the logical ones.

This doesn’t mean we can do away with using the rational mind altogether. The intuition isn’t very good at doing accounts, for instance. Also, I can attest that the intuition takes over as our main guide in life. But we still need to use the lower mind to fine-tune how we need to implement the intuitions insights in the light of practical limitations.

Intuition operates through inspiration, not unlike how a creative artist conceives his/her important works. Whether it’s large or small, though, inspiration seems to be the primary means by which the intuition expresses itself, once it gets strong. Intuition always sees and comes from a big picture, not a limited one. Inspiration seems to be the primary means by which the Higher Mind expresses its positivity side.

When I was younger I would always be making lateral jumps in my thinking. People would say things like: “You must have an extremely good imagination,” or “I can’t understand you – you’re too mysterious.” I gradually learnt how to dress up my insights with rational-sounding reasons for having them – at least when I was around people who didn’t know me well.

One caution, though, is that the ego can try to pass off some of its wildness for the wildness of the intuition. Also, the ego can develop “special abilities”, such as some psychic abilities, in imitation of the intuition. The difference is that the intuition always comes out of a place of unknowing, of surrender and awe at the wonder of it all, an dof insights that come not from it but somehow are “given” to it.

TraineeHuman

28th August 2013, 13:38

As you learn to bring in your intuition, or indeed your Higher Mind, one thing you’ll experience is that it has far more intensity or “energy” than the normal you you have been used to. You (that is, your ego, your inner child and your lower mind) may feel extremely restless as a result. Don’t worry. That’s normal.

You may notice that if you try to “descend” this greater intelligence/awareness into your lower self and your body too quickly, you’ll initially run out of puff and fail.

This is because the first step is that you need to become fluent in using intuition, in continually listening to whatever your intuition is suggesting.

Certainly, we are here in the physical world in order that we may “descend” the fruits of intuition into our everyday lives. That’s a major part of the lesson we got born here to learn. Yes, we were meant to learn to bring down the power of our intuition into the home and marketplace, to wherever possible make the lives of our family members and workmates happy. Beyond that, even to make the whole planet a better place, as Bill Ryan’s latest thread describes.

But first we need to build up a strong enough “momentum” or “force” of indomitable and sincere positivity that has become an organic part of us like breathing, and isn’t somehow forced or contrived. Otherwise, all that wonderful power will get dissipated as it fails to stand up to the slings and arrows of outrageous egos, or of our own egoic misdirection. Need I add that the ego’s issues need to have been largely worked through first?

Zen Buddhism traditionally used to require its monks to master at least two kinds of creative arts as a way of practicing becoming very fluent with the intuition and building it up to be strong and an organic part of oneself. I’ve already mentioned archery, which was one of the Zen martial arts. We Westerners may not consider some of the Zen arts as “arts”, certainly not as fine arts. But the way they were practiced was with a practical emphasis, which helped the Zen monks graduate from the (higher) world of pure intuition to its practical application in the physical. Flower arrangement or a peaceful tea ceremony may not exactly be Beethoven or da Vinci, but the practical application in the face of the ego and the (lower) mind’s psychic pollution was the end aim.

I’ve mentioned how the unknowing side of the intuition can be so strong, you can forget how to concentrate , or temporarily lose your memory, and so on. Those sorts of things can happen while your intuition is still getting stronger; or else when it’s morphing to a higher level of intensity and positivity.

At the risk of repeating myself, let me say again that learning to practice and bear stillness is usually the most important way to strengthen the intuition.

Incidentally, once your intuition is truly strong you should be able to astral travel rather easily. Maybe it could take you several attempts each time, but basically the skill would already be there. You would already have a stable sense of what lies “above”, and also roughly of what lies between the physical and the intuitive realms.

You may notice also that even with a strengthened intuition probably half of what goes on inside you will still be subconscious or unconscious – even if you accept and face your dark side ever so fully. The Higher Mind reaches beyond the intuition and the ends of the universe. But it always uses the intuition to express itself.

Your intuitions do not always need to be specific. They can just be a bathing in Light and stillness, and simply bringing Light and stillness down into, say, a bad habit will indeed transform it. You just have to be able to hold that Light or stillness there long enough, without letting it get dissipated.

By the way, I’ve mentioned this a few times before, but the ego always kicks back hard after you’ve dissolved a part of it – such as a bad habit, or half a bad habit.

Let’s also be clear that it’s not a matter of just one “descent”, but of many little “descents”, until the big one has mostly happened anyway.

Eventually you will have basically a Light-filled, proactive mind and heart and body-consciousness and cells and behavior and everything else.

Two final comments, for now. Intuition is wholistic. It can’t be put in a box, or fully captured or defined or systematized, or even fully understood.

Secondly, your lower side, such as the ego, will do what it can to resist, resist, resist all the way.

TraineeHuman

30th August 2013, 16:26

When you first start living from intuition, or from the Higher Mind, that inner consciousness seems like a dream. It seems so light and delicate you may feel tempted to dismiss it. But if you progress on and stay with the inner consciousness, then eventually it will seem like the outward “consciousness” – your physical, emotional and mental parts – are like a delusion, and certainly the part of you that’s full of imperfections, inadequacies, and inbuilt limitations. The outward part at some point stops being what you kind of automatically regard as your “self”. At that point you switch over. So, the tiny mustard seed eventually grows into a gigantic tree freely giving overwhelming shade. But you have to learn to trust that tiny seed – to listen to the initially ever so soft small, still voice.

For most Westerners it seems to be necessary to also “open their heart” and get truly in touch with all their feelings before they are able to truly keep listening to that inner “voice”.

There is also an in between period before the full switchover, where you find that at in one situation the Higher Mind is there with all its peace and you are happy, while in another situation you’re just full of failings and weaknesses and limitations.

At a still later point the inner consciousness slowly, quietly, gradually works its “descent” into the outward consciousness – provided you spend time either meditating or engaging in some other introverted activity, such as perhaps an art or craft – or even just being quiet and listening for what your intuition may tell you.

Andrew

2nd September 2013, 11:36

Some interesting posts disappeared from here since the hacking scandal...

TraineeHuman

3rd September 2013, 13:10

Here's one of the erstwhile lost posts:

The following is in response to Freed Fox's request for a comment on Hylozoics.

Hylozoics claims that everything there is (on any plane or universe) is reducible to matter, consciousness and motion. I’ve mostly only read the first two pages or so of a text on Hylozoics. But, as it happens, unfortunately this thread has already discussed various relevant issues which I believe have made plain some of the ways it’s inadequate and even incorrect to claim that reality is ultimately made out of matter, consciousness and motion. Let me elaborate.

We already had some discussion, between FrankoL, Justoneman and myself, around posts #154 to #166, regarding the fact that reality (of all levels) is and must ultimately be of one type, not three. Reality is one, unitary. In particular, we explained in some detail why it is that at an ultimate level everything must reduce either to consciousness or to matter, but not to both. Thus all physical matter reduces to being what’s really a dense variety of consciousness. There were also, I thought, some very good reasons offered in the above posts which, unlike the conceptual foundations of Hylozoics I’m afraid, would, I believe, be fully acceptable in the world of professional philosophy, that saying that everything is made of consciousness is a superior explanation to saying that everything is (made of) matter. (See also post #1093.)

In addition, in posts such as #1061 I’ve explained at length why it’s a fact of modern physics that physical reality and any (electromagnetic) energy reality (which the 4D and 5D worlds are) is in no way made of objects at a subatomic level. Not long after my post #1061, Deepak Chopra also released a video trying to explain similar points to those I had been making -- very fully consistent with that post of mine.

Now, if objects are purely and totally a fiction, at least in the physical and astral worlds at a subatomic level and smaller, I’d like to suggest that matter must be also, in any of the usual senses in which people think of matter. Plato defined matter as that which gives forms -- which in the physical plus astral are totally equivalent to objects -- their solidity. But physics had proved largely already by the early twentieth century that in reality no such solidity exists at all: all there is is forms plus empty space, and that’s all. Physical matter is a fiction, like a mirage or an optical illusion. The table you rest your elbow on may seem solid, but actually its 99.99% empty space, as we know. And the only reason we have the optical illusion and the tactile illusion that it's solid is because there are enough electron-orbit forms there at any given time to make it seem solid to you. But it was proved that the only place where there might be any matter at all is inside one of the electron or positron or neutrino forms, or inside the atomic nucleus forms. Unfortunately, its also been proved that even those sub-microscopically tiny forms are themselves made out of nothing but even further forms plus empty space. There's no matter beyond the forms and space, at all. No matter anywhere, in the entire physical universe! So, why use the word “matter” as a foundational concept for everything when in the physical world (and astral worlds) it’s purely a fiction? And what is non-physical, non-astral “matter” even like? Does it have any resemblance at all to physical matter, given that it would not be an illusion while physical matter is purely an illusion?

And Im not convinced about the third irreducible concept of Hylozoics, namely, the concept of motion. Motion is what happens to objects. But, again, in the physical and astral worlds (and, I happen to know, in all higher worlds and universes) objects are ultimately a pure fiction, which makes motion purely a fiction also. Plus, consciousness is actually a very dynamic thing, so it already has a type of “motion” implicit in it, I would have thought.

This is not to say that there may not be (many) very useful things somewhere in the Hylozoics material. I don’t know if there are or not. But obviously, I regret I’m not impressed by the claimed foundational concepts, except for the concept of consciousness. Plato and Aristotle chose form, space and matter. Those three concepts weren’t conducive to creating an enlightened planet. We need something better than the likes of that -- though consciousness is very good as a foundation of everything else.

Benimal

3rd September 2013, 16:06

TraineeHuman

4th September 2013, 01:35

Certainly any OB or “higher world” experience seems to need a higher level of life-force energy than normal. I guess there’s some kind of analogy with how an aeroplane needs to have a certain velocity in order to take off; or how a rocket needs to reach the escape velocity in order to break free of the pull of gravity. It seems that before, during and after their experience of death, people become considerably more strongly energized than in typical astral travel.

I would say there's more to a person than anything that's electrical/magnetic, though, and those studies presumably aren't able to pick it up. The Higher Mind/Consciousness is so wholistic in nature, I'm not sure if it's measurable by any instrument -- unless it freely chooses to communicate some message, I guess.

NancyV

4th September 2013, 03:04

Hey TraineeHuman. There's some stuff I've been reading about which I'm curious to hear your opinion on. Apparently we have been able to artificially induce OBE's in people with electricity. Also, a recent study has shown that when we die there is actually a surge of brain activity which could be resposible for NDE's. I've been a long time believer of OBE's and NDE's but I'm not sure what to make of these findings.

Love&Light

Ben
I have experimented with quite a few different types of machines, from brain-wave synchronizers, schuman resonance emitter, several different PEMF machines - (Pulsed Electromagnetic Field), and a couple of machines I don't remember what they were. One of the machines was so powerful it tore a hole into another dimension. A friend of mine and I used it together as it had two handles. Each of us held one handle and then held hands completing the circuit. We did it with 5 people a few times and although we got very "high" we didn't have the same result as when just the two of us did it together.

We were stuck in this dimension looking through a huge opening into another dimension with monks in a monastery chanting. It was horribly uncomfortable and we couldn't stop it for about 5 hours. So we never used THAT machine again! LOL...

The PEMF machines were very beneficial for raising my vibrational frequency. The most powerful one I used was a Papimi machine. It gave me a huge amount of incredibly relaxed energy, raising my vibrational frequency. I have two close friends who had out of body experiences using a Bemer3000. One of my friends who used it is an old Tai Chi teacher who is very familiar with Chi and OBE's. He felt the machine was very beneficial and useful for raising vibrational frequency.

As far as using electricity, as opposed to electromagnetic frequencies, I've tried a couple of direct electricity type machines and had horrible reactions to them. But we are each unique and react differently to things. I would be interested to know how they induced OBE's with electricity. About a year ago I got rid of a machine that used direct electrical stimulation for pain management, which I got for my husband, but of course I tried it. We both had bad reactions to that machine.

The best PEMF machines that are small enough and more affordable than a Papimi machine, which is around 40,000, are the Bemer3000, MRS2000 and the Medithera. They are all around $3000-$4000. If one is inclined to experiment with inducing OBE's via a machine, these are the ones that could be effective. They also happen to heal a huge number of illnesses, aches and pains. I totally got rid of symptoms from a stroke by using PEMF therapy AND I got very high and cured a couple of long standing health issues.

I have traveled out of body hundreds of times just through meditation but I still have enjoyed experimenting with all kinds of weird machines over the years AND drugs many decades ago. I think OBE's done naturally, without drugs, are MUCH better because I lost much control with hallucinogenics. However PEMF machines are just an aid to raising your vibratory rate so they don't cause any loss of control and can help in leaving the body.

TraineeHuman

4th September 2013, 13:09

Hi, Nancy. Thank you for the very interesting information about different machines. I've seen magnetic coils used for physical healing. Would they be EMPs too, I wonder?

Would you be willing to tell us any more about that tear in the dimension? Did you experience two "timelines" or whatever at once for those five hours? And how did you psychically protect yourself / heal yourself, during or afterwards?

For the last nine months I've been living next door to a telephone exchange, which undoubtedly contains extremely high voltages. However, I have two orgone accumulators (and several minor EM shielding devices), which seem to protect my space from any harmful effects. A few days after I moved in I became vaguely aware that I was somehow using the high voltage to give what seemed like a real boost to some of my energies. That voltage next door feels consistently nice to me.

Incidentally, it seems we may all need some shielding from harmful electromagnetic or microwave radiation, which an orgone accumulator does provide. At the most recent Mind Body Spirit Festival here in Australia, I heard someone speak who is a professional feng shui consultant and dowser. He also has an awesome reputation with serious people as a psychic healer, and for being extremely accurate in his dowsing etc. he explained that since something like (I think) four years ago there is a low frequency grid of radio waves covering the entire land surface of the planet, something like ten feet below the surface. He was very clear that he has determined it has harmful weakening effects on all human energy fields -- it "targets" everybody, in a sense. He claims it's far worse than the sum total of what's coming from the HAARP installations. He was also recommending that everyone should buy an orgone accumulator as protection. As I imagine you're quite aware, Nancy, psychic attacks (the ones I'm aware of) often come from below the ground, conveyed in some electromagnetic form.

TraineeHuman

4th September 2013, 14:06

Once one starts bringing down and using the intuition regularly, they have made a big breakthrough, as I’d like to now describe.

In these Forums over the last five years I’ve seen quite a few posts now and then about the importance of coming from “Love” or from “your heart”. That’s fine, though I’d like to ask what does this really involve?

The world that the majority of people “out there” seem to live in is something that they have knowledge about through and by thought(s). That’s not to deny at all that people also emote/feel and have physical experiences too. But until the intuition comes down and becomes active, I suggest the only type of knowing which people generally have is via thought. Thought is what gives structure to their memories or knowledge of the experiences they have.

When intuition comes down, it “intuitivizes” – or, if you like, “spiritualizes” – and thereby sets free not only your thoughts/intellect but also your emotions/feelings and your physical actions/sensations. That’s the big breakthrough. On reflection, I’d say about half of the point of why I’ve persistently talked about “bi-location” has been to refer to this: having, say, both a physical sensation but also having intuitive knowing working fully at the same time.

The intuition is wholistic, in touch with all, and therefore capable of far more , and guiding more truly than, the (lower) intellect ever could.

Some alternative people seem to see themselves as strongly anti-intellectual – because they appreciate that almost everything in society is a construct of the intellect, of thought. All the conditioning, everything. I’m not definitely convinced, though, that absolutely all of them may have as yet activated their intuition fully enough to replace the dominance of (lower) intellect in their own selves, whether they fully appreciate it’s also happening in themselves, in that case, or not.

And once the intuition is truly activated, the “intuitivized” intellect is not something to be avoided or rejected. However, it now shares with and balances with and gives deep respect to intuitivized feeling/emotion and intuitivized sensation/action. It doesn’t seek to dominate these, as the lower intellect did before.

Someone may point out that I’ve recently mentioned the necessity of making the “inner” part of you more important, but I’ve also been saying the intuition is “higher”. And yes, there is both an inner/outer “direction” and a higher/lower one. As I’ve said before, you do need to activate the “inner” in you first. At that point it’s possible to take on the influence of the higher –as with the intuition --, or the lower. The latter seems to be what occurs in cases of drug or alcohol addiction, or of “possession”.

People sometimes talk of “the true heart” when strictly speaking what they mean, or intend to mean, is the intuition – if most of the ancient Eastern spiritual traditions are trusted as even vaguely accurate.

Shamz

4th September 2013, 17:52

Dear Nancy

You never cease to amaze me with your stories - how wonderful. Would you care to write a book about all your experiences

On the same token - I think Trainee should also think about writing a book... with all the posts in this thread - I am sure a good size book can be written. If you give me permission I can start doing that... haha... no I won't

Much love to you guys.

Hey TraineeHuman. There's some stuff I've been reading about which I'm curious to hear your opinion on. Apparently we have been able to artificially induce OBE's in people with electricity. Also, a recent study has shown that when we die there is actually a surge of brain activity which could be resposible for NDE's. I've been a long time believer of OBE's and NDE's but I'm not sure what to make of these findings.

Love&Light

Ben
I have experimented with quite a few different types of machines, from brain-wave synchronizers, schuman resonance emitter, several different PEMF machines - (Pulsed Electromagnetic Field), and a couple of machines I don't remember what they were. One of the machines was so powerful it tore a hole into another dimension. A friend of mine and I used it together as it had two handles. Each of us held one handle and then held hands completing the circuit. We did it with 5 people a few times and although we got very "high" we didn't have the same result as when just the two of us did it together.

We were stuck in this dimension looking through a huge opening into another dimension with monks in a monastery chanting. It was horribly uncomfortable and we couldn't stop it for about 5 hours. So we never used THAT machine again! LOL...

The PEMF machines were very beneficial for raising my vibrational frequency. The most powerful one I used was a Papimi machine. It gave me a huge amount of incredibly relaxed energy, raising my vibrational frequency. I have two close friends who had out of body experiences using a Bemer3000. One of my friends who used it is an old Tai Chi teacher who is very familiar with Chi and OBE's. He felt the machine was very beneficial and useful for raising vibrational frequency.

As far as using electricity, as opposed to electromagnetic frequencies, I've tried a couple of direct electricity type machines and had horrible reactions to them. But we are each unique and react differently to things. I would be interested to know how they induced OBE's with electricity. About a year ago I got rid of a machine that used direct electrical stimulation for pain management, which I got for my husband, but of course I tried it. We both had bad reactions to that machine.

The best PEMF machines that are small enough and more affordable than a Papimi machine, which is around 40,000, are the Bemer3000, MRS2000 and the Medithera. They are all around $3000-$4000. If one is inclined to experiment with inducing OBE's via a machine, these are the ones that could be effective. They also happen to heal a huge number of illnesses, aches and pains. I totally got rid of symptoms from a stroke by using PEMF therapy AND I got very high and cured a couple of long standing health issues.

I have traveled out of body hundreds of times just through meditation but I still have enjoyed experimenting with all kinds of weird machines over the years AND drugs many decades ago. I think OBE's done naturally, without drugs, are MUCH better because I lost much control with hallucinogenics. However PEMF machines are just an aid to raising your vibratory rate so they don't cause any loss of control and can help in leaving the body.

soleil

5th September 2013, 17:35

hi guys, i havent posted much lately.... i have been working on myself, to make some changes.

im currently taking a real leap of faith in attempt to find a job (whether sales or not sales-y) in my field of interest; rather than using my sales expertise to make money for "the man".

i am truly hoping hoping to get this job at a little spiritual shop in my new area to spend more time with my family, while still being in an environment conducive to my learning, maybe one that will help me with my learning.

basically i went out on a limb and emailed the owner asking for a job. this was almost a month ago. and after a month of me working on making my job option manifest itself, she tells me today that she wants to meet me in person about a possible job position, and to come by tonight.

so please wish my luck all, so that soon i will (hopefully) be making a serious (life) change.

yowza

love you all!!!

TraineeHuman

6th September 2013, 02:23

Good luck, sway! My intuition suggests the owner of the shop is still deciding what she thinks of you.

I’ve had the experience of working for a little over ten years in areas that were totally my real passion, but also for many years in areas which weren’t. Strangely, perhaps, I wonder if I didn’t learn more in the latter, and maybe even contribute more there to the lives of those who were around. A person’s “inner” part should of course eventually transform not only their own “outer” part but also some of what else is “outer” around them.

Still, the chance to spend more time with your family is (hopefully) a big positive. Even if you don’t get this one, if you keep going you can only get stronger at manifesting what you truly want.

ruthy

6th September 2013, 03:12

I am very interested in this thread, more than most other topics on Project Avalon. I agree with a couple of people on here, who mentioned that there is no real "method" for having an out of body experience. Stretching, chanting ohms...may only work for certain people, because these methods only trick your mind into thinking they work...the real secret to having an out of body experience is your INTENT- the innate desire for it with everything in you. In fact Intent and Will are THE most important aspects of OBE's and many other amazing feats of humans. If you can think and convince yourself and desire with every inch of yourself to have an experience like this, 9 times out of 10 it will happen. The most valuable tip I can offer is, don't do this when you are utterly exhausted. If you go to bed really really tired you will just go into deep REM sleep right away. Your mind needs enough energy to still focus on your intent. I have better odds in sleeping earlier than my normal bed time, or taking an afternoon nap. Bingo, works every time for me.

I've been having these experiences since I was a little girl. I used to be terrified to go to sleep at night, because I could feel the sheets slipping off of me as I felt I was being sucked up towards the ceiling. I'd have these experiences every night for months. I was too afraid to tell my parents, and even as young as I was I knew they would take the wrong course of action and think something was wrong with me. in other words, medicate medicate medicate. The american way.

It wasn't until I got to my late 20's that I started accepting the experiences and attempting to control them more. I still feel like its not just me pulling me up, its something else. Now I've had communication with the entity that accompanies me..some call it your dreaming emissary..supposedly this emissary can't lie, you ask it things it will answer you, you ask to go somewhere and it will oblige you...Now I have it asking me where I want to go, I went into space when I asked it to show me a particular star, I got scared and woke myself up because we were traveling so fast towards a blue light and streaks of stars around me showing our speed. Sometimes the experience is positive, sometimes it is negative. There have been occasions where i get frightened and I tell it to let me down, and I'm immediately returned down again ..then there are other instances where I feel like I am fighting to get out of its grasp. I think when you call to have these experiences, you sometimes attract entities that want to help you , and some that want to take advantage. What I do is ask for only entities that are positive, I put that out there...if i remember to focus on this, i have an amazing experience..if i forget, or get tired and my mind wanders, the experience can be what THEy want me to go through,,...and they control me, and sometimes I've felt like I was being suffocated, or talked to in creepy ways, and sometimes touched.

I over all am very curious about it, and have been trying to learn better dreaming practices. I highly recommend anyone who is interested in this area, to read Carlos Castenadas books ALL of them.., but especially The Art of Dreaming. It will change your life I promise you. If anyone wants a book, message me, I have pdfs of them all. They changed my life forever, making sense of so many things that I had long knew. It answered a lot of questions, and made me feel so much better. I will warn you, that some dreaming practices are risky. Think of it this way, there are things we didn't know that existed until we discovered the microscope. If anyone back in the day thought there were microscopic living organisms all around us that we couldn't see, they'd claim we were mad. Dreaming is the same thing. We are surrounded by entities. Some good, some bad. Some people can see them, a friend of my fiance, his mom, she could tell when he and his friend were in trouble as little kids, or did something bad, because she could see the entities clinging to them. Positive things attract the positive ones, and negative things attract the negative ones. Like attracts like more than you can imagine.

I encourage everyone to try this basic first dreaming exercise that Castenada's book mentioned.., its actually incredible feeling when you get it to work. Go to bed, a little tired, but NOT exhausted. Again, you don't want to drop off too deep. When you are lying in bed, be very relaxed and focus on the thought "I want to feel myself fall asleep". If you have to repeat it over and over again in your head, do so, like you were counting sheep. Better yet, try this exercise in the afternoon, like a nap. You will feel your body start to tingle, and you will feel like you are falling through the mattress, and feel part by part of your body fall into sleep and get very heavy. It's really really cool to experience, and for me I did it on the first try, I was not expecting that! There are some methods that Castenada's books talk about, and the aspect of dreaming is that it's supposed to be safe, that your dreaming self protects you in ways, that if you were to try to face entities in real life, you'd be up a creek. I had experience with going too far in a dreaming exercise, and I went 6 levels into a dream within a dream deep. Then when I surfaced, I was partly conscious, and there was a dark entity, almost formless, in my bedroom talking to me and trying to grab my arm. The best course of action when dealing with dark entities, that are trying to frighten you, is to turn your fear into anger. Fear feeds them. Tell them off, laugh at them, think happy thoughts, whatever...but don't let your fear take over. They feed off your energy from this. In fact, entities in general feed off of our energy.

Also when it comes to learning how to do the exercises in Castenada's books, whether for dreaming, or changing perception to see the world as it really is, you need to save your energy. Reduce your stress levels, change your routines, the art of not doing is KEY. The world is only the way it is, because we were conditioned to Perceive it this way. We as humans have incredible power. I firmly believe this, more than anything. Religions have been telling us this, but the message got twisted...on purpose of course. I could go on and on about how this ability in us they've been trying to subdue and destroy. but for now, keeping on topic, OBE's are only the beginnning. IF you have the INTENT and the strength of WILL ..you will FLY wherever you want.

Shamz

6th September 2013, 04:25

Dear Ruthy,

Awesome post -- thanks for telling us your experiences. Hope to hear more from you. If you read this thread from beginning- which is an exercise in itself - you will find that TH and others have covered this topic of dealing with Dark/negative entities -- much the same way you described. TH have even listed some exercises that can protect you and all of your body cells when doing OBEs.

No matter how much we read about or know about each other experiences... everyone's journey - be it physical life or Astral traveling is different and unique. That might be dictated by where we are in our spiritual progress..and what other experiences are needed to further nourish our soul and advance. Am still in learning stage.... but here on this forum you will find many great people with great experiences in every aspect of life

thanks again.... much love to you

I am very interested in this thread, more than most other topics on Project Avalon. I agree with a couple of people on here, who mentioned that there is no real "method" for having an out of body experience. Stretching, chanting ohms...may only work for certain people, because these methods only trick your mind into thinking they work...the real secret to having an out of body experience is your INTENT- the innate desire for it with everything in you. In fact Intent and Will are THE most important aspects of OBE's and many other amazing feats of humans. If you can think and convince yourself and desire with every inch of yourself to have an experience like this, 9 times out of 10 it will happen. The most valuable tip I can offer is, don't do this when you are utterly exhausted. If you go to bed really really tired you will just go into deep REM sleep right away. Your mind needs enough energy to still focus on your intent. I have better odds in sleeping earlier than my normal bed time, or taking an afternoon nap. Bingo, works every time for me.

I've been having these experiences since I was a little girl. I used to be terrified to go to sleep at night, because I could feel the sheets slipping off of me as I felt I was being sucked up towards the ceiling. I'd have these experiences every night for months. I was too afraid to tell my parents, and even as young as I was I knew they would take the wrong course of action and think something was wrong with me. in other words, medicate medicate medicate. The american way.

It wasn't until I got to my late 20's that I started accepting the experiences and attempting to control them more. I still feel like its not just me pulling me up, its something else. Now I've had communication with the entity that accompanies me..some call it your dreaming emissary..supposedly this emissary can't lie, you ask it things it will answer you, you ask to go somewhere and it will oblige you...Now I have it asking me where I want to go, I went into space when I asked it to show me a particular star, I got scared and woke myself up because we were traveling so fast towards a blue light and streaks of stars around me showing our speed. Sometimes the experience is positive, sometimes it is negative. There have been occasions where i get frightened and I tell it to let me down, and I'm immediately returned down again ..then there are other instances where I feel like I am fighting to get out of its grasp. I think when you call to have these experiences, you sometimes attract entities that want to help you , and some that want to take advantage. What I do is ask for only entities that are positive, I put that out there...if i remember to focus on this, i have an amazing experience..if i forget, or get tired and my mind wanders, the experience can be what THEy want me to go through,,...and they control me, and sometimes I've felt like I was being suffocated, or talked to in creepy ways, and sometimes touched.

I over all am very curious about it, and have been trying to learn better dreaming practices. I highly recommend anyone who is interested in this area, to read Carlos Castenadas books ALL of them.., but especially The Art of Dreaming. It will change your life I promise you. If anyone wants a book, message me, I have pdfs of them all. They changed my life forever, making sense of so many things that I had long knew. It answered a lot of questions, and made me feel so much better. I will warn you, that some dreaming practices are risky. Think of it this way, there are things we didn't know that existed until we discovered the microscope. If anyone back in the day thought there were microscopic living organisms all around us that we couldn't see, they'd claim we were mad. Dreaming is the same thing. We are surrounded by entities. Some good, some bad. Some people can see them, a friend of my fiance, his mom, she could tell when he and his friend were in trouble as little kids, or did something bad, because she could see the entities clinging to them. Positive things attract the positive ones, and negative things attract the negative ones. Like attracts like more than you can imagine.

I encourage everyone to try this basic first dreaming exercise that Castenada's book mentioned.., its actually incredible feeling when you get it to work. Go to bed, a little tired, but NOT exhausted. Again, you don't want to drop off too deep. When you are lying in bed, be very relaxed and focus on the thought "I want to feel myself fall asleep". If you have to repeat it over and over again in your head, do so, like you were counting sheep. Better yet, try this exercise in the afternoon, like a nap. You will feel your body start to tingle, and you will feel like you are falling through the mattress, and feel part by part of your body fall into sleep and get very heavy. It's really really cool to experience, and for me I did it on the first try, I was not expecting that! There are some methods that Castenada's books talk about, and the aspect of dreaming is that it's supposed to be safe, that your dreaming self protects you in ways, that if you were to try to face entities in real life, you'd be up a creek. I had experience with going too far in a dreaming exercise, and I went 6 levels into a dream within a dream deep. Then when I surfaced, I was partly conscious, and there was a dark entity, almost formless, in my bedroom talking to me and trying to grab my arm. The best course of action when dealing with dark entities, that are trying to frighten you, is to turn your fear into anger. Fear feeds them. Tell them off, laugh at them, think happy thoughts, whatever...but don't let your fear take over. They feed off your energy from this. In fact, entities in general feed off of our energy.

Also when it comes to learning how to do the exercises in Castenada's books, whether for dreaming, or changing perception to see the world as it really is, you need to save your energy. Reduce your stress levels, change your routines, the art of not doing is KEY. The world is only the way it is, because we were conditioned to Perceive it this way. We as humans have incredible power. I firmly believe this, more than anything. Religions have been telling us this, but the message got twisted...on purpose of course. I could go on and on about how this ability in us they've been trying to subdue and destroy. but for now, keeping on topic, OBE's are only the beginnning. IF you have the INTENT and the strength of WILL ..you will FLY wherever you want.

TraineeHuman

7th September 2013, 06:30

I agree with a couple of people on here, who mentioned that there is no real "method" for having an out of body experience. Stretching, chanting ohms...may only work for certain people, because these methods only trick your mind into thinking they work...the real secret to having an out of body experience is your INTENT- the innate desire for it with everything in you. In fact Intent and Will are THE most important aspects of OBE's and many other amazing feats of humans. If you can think and convince yourself and desire with every inch of yourself to have an experience like this, 9 times out of 10 it will happen. The most valuable tip I can offer is, don't do this when you are utterly exhausted.
...
The world is only the way it is, because we were conditioned to Perceive it this way. We as humans have incredible power. I firmly believe this, more than anything. Religions have been telling us this, but the message got twisted...on purpose of course. I could go on and on about how this ability in us they've been trying to subdue and destroy. but for now, keeping on topic, OBE's are only the beginning. IF you have the INTENT and the strength of WILL ..you will FLY wherever you want.

I fully agree,ruthy. Strictly speaking, it’s really a person’s Higher Mind (or assistance from other higher beings) that takes them astral traveling.

The truth is, the lower intellect constantly tries to ask “How?”, but for the Higher Mind no such thing as how exists, there’s only “What?” And every technique is nothing more than a way “how” to do something, so you’re right.

Intent and will, yes, precisely. Intent of that sort is part of the Higher Mind, and will can be Higher Will or else it’s the best substitute a person has for intent if they haven’t mastered the latter.

I still feel like its not just me pulling me up, its something else. Now I've had communication with the entity that accompanies me..some call it your dreaming emissary..supposedly this emissary can't lie, you ask it things it will answer you, you ask to go somewhere and it will oblige you...Now I have it asking me where I want to go, I went into space when I asked it to show me a particular star, I got scared and woke myself up because we were traveling so fast towards a blue light and streaks of stars around me showing our speed.

Well, I trust I've made it clear that that "dreaming emissary" is your own Higher Mind. It's really a part of you - the real you. Trouble is, few people can really "see" all their parts -- such as seeing all of one's lower mind as if from a distance, for instance.

Sometimes the experience is positive, sometimes it is negative. There have been occasions where i get frightened and I tell it to let me down, and I'm immediately returned down again ..then there are other instances where I feel like I am fighting to get out of its grasp. I think when you call to have these experiences, you sometimes attract entities that want to help you , and some that want to take advantage. What I do is ask for only entities that are positive, I put that out there...if i remember to focus on this, i have an amazing experience..if i forget, or get tired and my mind wanders, the experience can be what THEy want me to go through,,...and they control me, and sometimes I've felt like I was being suffocated, or talked to in creepy ways, and sometimes touched.
...
If anyone back in the day thought there were microscopic living organisms all around us that we couldn't see, they'd claim we were mad. Dreaming is the same thing. We are surrounded by entities. Some good, some bad. Some people can see them, a friend of my fiance, his mom, she could tell when he and his friend were in trouble as little kids, or did something bad, because she could see the entities clinging to them. Positive things attract the positive ones, and negative things attract the negative ones. Like attracts like more than you can imagine.

The best course of action when dealing with dark entities, that are trying to frighten you, is to turn your fear into anger. Fear feeds them. Tell them off, laugh at them, think happy thoughts, whatever...but don't let your fear take over. They feed off your energy from this. In fact, entities in general feed off of our energy.

I must admit I’m not familiar with being taken places by negative beings, except on two occasions, and that was before I had worked out that I needed to ensure I had some protection first. (Who would venture into a rough neighborhood in their town that they’re not familiar with at night, unless they had some protection?) However, sometimes while astral traveling positive beings who were my guides would apparently leave me alone, sometimes on the other side of the solar system or in some other type of world.

Precisely as you say, like attracts like, and even more so the higher the level of the world you’re in. I’ve suggested that every night before going to sleep everyone should spend a little time bringing in strong healing energy around themselves as a form of protection. The reason this is protection is that the positive “energy” attracts positive beings/ entities. Similarly, I’ve suggested everyone should ideally meditate before they start their day, so that throughout the day they’ll hopefully be surrounded by positive influences on an OB level. I do hope everyone’s doing these things, or something equivalent.

Also, fear is useless, because it freezes you stuck in a "victim" mode. So yes, don't stay frozen, do something -- get angry, anything.

TraineeHuman

9th September 2013, 13:37

Where does intuition fit in the big scheme of things? Let’s take a quickish look – though this will take more than one post.

First of all, I’ve already said that intuition is basically the lowest level of the Higher Mind; but elsewhere in this thread I’ve said that intention (or what goes with the creation of at least very small changes to details in timelines) is the lowest level. That sounds like a contradiction. Well, let me give a brief explanation why in these realms seeming contradictions may happily exist.

Alexander Lowen was one of the founders of Western psychology (and the sole originator of concepts such as “process”, “cycle of action”, “resolution” (of such a cycle), and various related concepts I’ve listed earlier. For many decades many of Lowen’s ideas were ignored or downplayed by mainstream Western psychology. He called his type of psychology “gestalt [or wholistic] psychology”. One of its basic principles was:

>>>>> The whole is always greater than the sum of its parts. <<<<<

Let’s briefly look at what this very interesting principle means with regard to Source – or, as Source is sometimes also called, the (ultimate) Self. Here we go. Source contains absolutely everything else inside it. It’s not only the sum of all these parts but also more than them, and different from any of them, because in its truest nature it’s inactive, it’s not born, it’s the stage on which absolutely everything takes place, and yet it is the deepest essence of literally everything else. All else exists (or, indeed, fails to exist) inside of It.

Actually, while we’re looking at contradictions etc, I’d like to also mention the fact that Source – somehow, unimaginably, folding in on itself – comes down and in certain ways actively works in between the Higher Mind and the physical. Devastatingly amazing. Anyone who has reached a certain “level” of spiritual enlightenment (including myself) can confirm that this is so. I’m not saying this as a belief or opinion or idea, but from direct incontrovertible experience/awareness. I don’t remember where I read someone say that “God is dancing on the tip of your tongue”, but there’s some truth in that because of this fact.

This kind of tolerance for the co-existence of contradictory or polarized differences extends to the Higher Mind as well. This is why there can be two, or three, or however many quite opposing strands of Higher Mind that ultimately turn out to be quite united as well, to the lower mind’s bewilderment.

The intuition is basically the lowest level of the Higher Mind where we have the individual consciousness being receptive to (some of) the universal consciousness. This has much in common with the “stillness” and “emptiness” side of the Higher Mind. The exercise in post #24 and even the exercise of feeling the aliveness in you were both intended as beginner training steps in immersing yourself in your intuition.

The way a sharpened intuition works is, the more “still” or “quiet” the lower nature becomes, the more it’s true that whatever is left is higher and finer and more balanced and true. Out of the exquisite poise of beautiful peace fine pearls are produced.

Intention, by contrast, is basically the individual consciousness communicating to the universal consciousness a specific choice of or perspective regarding making a state of affairs come true in the physical – along with the will for such to materialize.

Notice that black magic, of any kind, seems to be a type of negative willing. As far as I’m aware it can never really be a negative use of the Higher Mind. Instead (as far as I know) it can only create negative things in the mental, emotional or physical.

By contrast, pure intention is something performed by the Higher Mind and not by any lower “self”. Hence, pure intention will always be an intention for events to happen that are for the highest mutual good of all those legitimately involved. Because of the unselfishness of pure intention, it will be operating basically in approximate synergy with all. Black magic is no match for that.

However, what black magicians can do is to trick you with illusions, and exploit your negative imagination. They can create negative energy/thought entities that seem to have great higher awareness. They are bluffing all the way. But it can be a little like a convincing movie. The movie itself is a physical thing, bringing not only emotional and mental responses to you but also responses from your higher consciousness or which penetrate your subconscious. That’s the key to how black magic could even have a chance over you. In brief, it tricks you into the illusion that its entities are actually beings with higher consciousness which makes the negative power seem far, far greater than it factually is. It’s all about deceiving you into giving them hugely exaggerated power, which becomes real only because you’ve made it so.

soleil

9th September 2013, 17:31

[edit]
removed update.

:bolt:

TraineeHuman

10th September 2013, 07:28

I forgot to explain the relevance of Drunvalo’s Kahuna exercises, for extending the energy “antennas” from the middle of the head (see post #1181), to bringing down the Higher Mind and awakening the intuition. I’ll do so now.

Firstly, in brief, the exercises help one to transcend the lower mind, which associates itself with the head region down to the throat. When I say it associates itself, I mean it’s something like how a TV set picks up signals from a TV station. Much as the set isn’t the station, so the brain and head isn’t the (lower) mind. But these exercises nevertheless help to speed up a person’s transcendence of the lower mind to the next level, which is the beginning of the Higher Mind.

Actually, the Higher Mind associates itself with a region from the top of the head to maybe 25 centimeters above it. Similarly, say, the subconscious associates itself with everything in the human energy field from the bottom of the tailbone and lower, to several feet below the ground. We also shouldn’t forget that the human energy field also acts as one whole, and these associations are more emphases on certain aspects rather than sections of the field that are cut off from the other sections.

Two days ago I experienced a difficult physical-world situation which I noticed my ego was grabbing hold of and trying to use it to terrorize me a little. So I grounded myself and meditated, and quite soon felt immense pressure at the top of the head. I don’t normally feel that, but I believe it was simply my Higher Mind communicating that the ego had been put back in its place and there was nothing to worry about.

I usually experience the antennas at some stage almost every time I meditate. The (lower) mind needs to be freed of such things as attachment to some identity, or having very fixed opinions in control of one’s life, or any of the other activities it performs for the ego, such as being hurt and so on. In a nutshell, the more freed the mind becomes, the easier it is for communication with the Higher mind to flow.

Such communication may be very vague at first. Let me explain why. Firstly, the Higher Mind exists in a world that’s foreign to the physical, emotional and mental world we get born into. The Higher Mind’s world is a world that marches to a different drum. Secondly, initially we regard the Higher Mind’s world as being in a state of deep sleep. Indeed, initially we mostly only go there during deep (delta) sleep, and regard its communications as vague dreams, or wisps of dreams or hallucinations.

Secondly, in each level of reality or dimension or plane, we have to deal with Nature as it manifests on that particular level. So, at the Higher Mind level we start as beginners regarding Nature at that level.

As, for instance, all the schools of Yoga/Buddhism specifically teach, the truth is that Nature is not perfect. Also, as I’ve said, it has many levels – one for each level of existence.

Although the soul or Higher Mind carries full potential for becoming Source completely, it takes on and enters the imperfect world of Nature. The purpose of Nature, at each level, is to facilitate one’s evolution until one “graduates” from the lessons of Nature at that level. That’s when, having freed or recovered one’s (Source) essence at that level, one moves on to the class which is the next level of Nature. Of course, we also complete sections of classes at various different levels at once.

Finally, someone might wonder why in the video Drunvalo describes the antennas exercise as re-establishing the right connection between the head and the heart, when the exercise involves working mainly on the mid-head area. My reply to that question is that I believe Drunvalo could have expressed himself more accurately there. But that doesn’t take away from the value of the exercise.

TraineeHuman

13th September 2013, 01:14

I encourage everyone to try this basic first dreaming exercise that Castenada's book mentioned.., its actually incredible feeling when you get it to work. Go to bed, a little tired, but NOT exhausted. Again, you don't want to drop off too deep. When you are lying in bed, be very relaxed and focus on the thought "I want to feel myself fall asleep". If you have to repeat it over and over again in your head, do so, like you were counting sheep. Better yet, try this exercise in the afternoon, like a nap. You will feel your body start to tingle, and you will feel like you are falling through the mattress, and feel part by part of your body fall into sleep and get very heavy. It's really really cool to experience, and for me I did it on the first try, I was not expecting that!

Watching –and feeling – yourself go to sleep is a great exercise. I’d encourage everyone to try it.

In recent times I’ve only done it when I was trying to go to sleep while there was a great deal of noise around, such as a noisy neighbor. Or it can be if there is someone sleeping in the same room who is snoring very loudly, or you’re trying to sleep while traveling. If the noise is loud enough, I’ve found I usually needed to put attention on totally accepting the external noise. This is like finding a way to regard it all as pleasant or beautiful, or like getting deeply into harmony with it.

What I’ve found I then experience before falling asleep is, in part, that I’m watching myself, but also I experience joy, if not bliss, inside myself. Just as the lowest level of the Higher Mind is to do with intention and intuition, the next broad level can be said to do with bliss. Also, the feeling the aliveness exercise at least begins to take you to the same place.

This can also teach a person how to go OB into an astral world or, indeed, a higher world such as a world of bliss. My understanding is that many experienced astral travelers continue to use the vibrations, but they learn how to “make them” smoother and smoother. And that what they are really doing is learning to not-do anything in the form of resistance, which is what pure just-watching amounts to.

TraineeHuman

14th September 2013, 13:35

Castaneda’s book The Art of Dreaming contains fascinating ideas about what Castaneda considers “dreaming” to be. For him, “dreaming” means many more things than the fantastic scenes we experience while we’re sleeping. I would say his “dreaming” seems to mean roughly the same as what I (along with most major Eastern meditation traditions) would call the Higher Mind at work. On the first page of the Author’s Note, which is really the first chapter, he says:

With the perspective time gives, I now realize that the most fitting statement don Juan made about dreaming was to call it the “gateway to infinity”.

If what he means by “dreaming” means roughly the same as HM, then I couldn’t agree with this statement more. The whole purpose and action of the Higher Mind is indeed to gradually convert everything, including itself, into Source. That’s it’s whole ultimate purpose. And the taste and feeling and perception of “infinity” perhaps sums up better than any other word what the experience of/as Source is like – not only in my experience but in that of many others who have seen Source.

It may not be clear how what don Juan calls “dreaming” could be considered the same as the HM. After all, on the second page of the Author’s Note we have:

don Juan said to me, “Dreaming can only be experienced. Dreaming is not just having dreams; neither is it daydreaming or wishing or imagining. Through dreaming we can perceive other worlds, which we can certainly describe, but we can’t describe what makes us perceive them. Yet we can feel how dreaming opens up those other realms. Dreaming seems to be … an awareness in our minds.”

I know I’ve emphasized the great importance of practicing stillness in order to initially gain access to the Higher Mind. But I’d like to mention now that while in the higher realms (above “4D” and “5D”) we don’t just encounter nothing. We do encounter beings, and joys, and so on. But in order to put them into words we need to partly bring them down into “5D”, the realm of concepts and words (and pictures and symbols).

After I first had encounters with/as Source, I spent hours every week “downloading” bits of consciousness which were quite unsayable – or which I was content to leave in an unsayable state. Nevertheless, these seemed to give me enormous physical and mental/emotional energy, and to create what my school teachers regarded as an extraordinarily “good” attitude. (I was in high school at the time.) It was only later that I gradually realized that it was desirable to bring all the goodies I got from the higher worlds down into the world where I was living my physical life, and to find ways to practically apply them there.

One way one can experience beings in almost any dimension between “4D” and Source is as points or fields of light – though I would claim at higher dimensions it’s no longer physical light but it just looks similar and it’s really Light, whatever that is. During the same high school years several times every week I would find myself staring at a streetlight for twenty minutes or more, or at the stars in the sky in a state of intense concentration and delight. But I believe this was because these reminded me of part of what I had been experiencing in those higher realms.

ruthy has kindly offered to send anyone who’s interested a pdf version of Castaneda’s The Art of Dreaming. I assume the Avalon PM setup doesn’t allow the sending of such a large attachment, so you’ll need to provide an email address to ruthy – or to myself, as I’m also happy to send anyone a copy.

It’s fascinating to see where Castaneda or don Juan say things that seem to disagree with things I or others in this thread have said. Or that have a very different approach. I’d like to encourage everyone to begin reading that book. I’ll have some more comments relating to the Author’s Note (the first three pages) in my next post.

Shamz

24th September 2013, 02:51

Bumping this very important thread - so that it is visible on the first page - if new users are looking for some information.

TH - Please continue to share your thoughts

Much love

TraineeHuman

28th September 2013, 06:14

I haven’t posted in two weeks. I did send a PM to some members, explaining that I was taking a break. I didn’t mean to imply I was abandoning this thread, though. My apologies to anyone who was misled.

Thank you to the quite a few members who sent me extremely positive comments. Trust me, those comments are in every case as much a reflection of something wonderful in yourselves that you’re aware of – whether you clearly realize you’re aware of it or not!

One member sent a PM calling me a spiritual “teacher”. I prefer not to think of myself in that way, wherever possible. The truth is, we all (our Higher consciousness) can only teach ourselves. No-one else can, in the end. If you consider the fact (not really my opinion) that knowing is nearly always very incomplete and very partial, how could it be otherwise? No-one else can do your knowing for you. All they can do is point in a certain direction that seems particularly useful.

As everyone who isn’t new to this thread is aware, I’m interested in encouraging and suggesting experience of certain kinds, but beyond “the known”, and beyond various limitations, rather than just beyond the body. Many such experiences can also occur while one is in the body, or can be brought down into the body.

I suspect Castaneda’s “teacher” don Juan Matus may well have privately seen himself as more of a “pointer” than a “teacher”. For instance, in the Prefatory Note to The Art of Dreaming Castaneda describes how Castaneda eventually learnt at least some skills and talents through being a “teacher” of his own group of “apprentices”.

Interestingly, neither Castaneda nor any of the members of that group recognized one another at all, or were aware of ever having met, when they were eventually introduced to one another while in body. Presumably don Juan had at least been able to see them all together in the astral and at least to some degree observe what they were doing together.

This is a little reminiscent of the meeting in the astral I attempted to organize in late December. Although I experienced a group of Higher consciousnesses communicating and interacting somewhat, it seems by and large none of the others had been aware at all of what their Higher consciousness had been doing there, or even that it was there.

This no doubt has much to do with the fact that the Higher Mind sees no separation between itself and the rest of the world, until it has descended fully into an individual, that individual sees it as acting quite askew and mysteriously, or doesn’t normally manage to see how it is acting. In my next post I’ll say more about how this split is overcome in the initial experience of spiritual enlightenment.

Over the last few months I’ve had a number of PMs from very genuine and fine people who feel overcome, or almost overcome, by their suffering. Believe me, I’ve been there myself, in the past. It’s probably unavoidable to go through some considerable suffering, but the wise person will turn it all into “right suffering”, That concept is very important, but also shouldn’t be misinterpreted as an excuse for something masochistic or any sort of victim mentality whatsoever. By “right suffering” I mean using the experience in such a way as to become free of it forever.

Whenever you suffer, the universe is asking you: “Have you suffered enough yet? Are you truly willing to do something total about it, right now?” This is why I say, for instance, it’s a very good idea to give up all the “normal” desires. I just mean simply drop them, stop indulging them if you easily can find a “pause” button. If and when you do, you’ll find that they’re replaced by “higher desires”, which are far more pleasant, and indeed involve at least some bliss. It’s up to you, really. I appreciate you may not be ready yet. But I can assure you that the only way to make room for the higher “desires” (for lack of a better word) is to calmly give up desiring, if you’re ready, and then see what happens.

Similarly, giving up having identities, as far as practically possible – and in this world it’s not totally possible, but so what?

Again, simply give up taking anything personally, or personalizing meaning or being egocentric. Then you’ll find that the “vacuum” you’ve created doesn’t leave you stuck in a world of total impersonality – but you’re now just a free spirit there.

As I said, it’s all up to you, folks. The suffering, the fog, the meaninglessness seem like they’ll go on forever. And for a long but finite time, the ego fights harder and harder. It even, as a last resort, for probably a long time will get you to feel like you’re, say, a masochist and a spoilsport, or something similar to try and keep you extra uncomfortable in certain situations.

soleil

28th September 2013, 13:42

Th. its been about a yr now........i wish to express that ive grown more than i can say in words. and it has nothing to do with obe! even though that was my goal...at the time. my hs had piqued my interests for me to grow... you were the brave person who appeared to me, as who i was inspired to ask you to share any advice. your advice here has been pretty much on par with everything that resonates as true in all that ive read and listened to. (ive, since, steered clear of dark books since that one book....and right now am finishing the big toe trilogy, i bought it. :)

ive planned to give my notice at work for mid oct. and volunteer at the shop to start off. :) its going to be nice to not drive 1.5 hrs twice a day and spend more quality time with my family.

much love you guys

TraineeHuman

28th September 2013, 15:46

There’s another reason (well, there are many) why I’m always interested in emphasizing your direct experience – where possible. As mentioned earlier in this thread, I’m interested in promoting descension, and in people eventually realizing descension and making it a practical thing in their daily lives. As promised in my previous post, let me clarify some points regarding what this means in terms of enlightenment. As many (including myself) have observed, when a person has their first enlightenment experience – which is basically a full-on seeing of Source --, their oversoul chakra turns a gleaming silver or bright white color.

But in many traditions, such as the Taoist and Zen and Tibetan and certain Yoga/Vedanta traditions (including even TM) and the mainstream Western esoteric tradition as far as I understand --, this experience is only the beginning. For instance, in the Zen tradition they call it “kensho”. It’s well known that it may often take a further twenty years or more of meditation practice before the Zen Master recognizes (if he ever does) that the individual has achieved “satori”. Basically, “satori” means that the individual has integrated the content of his/her experience of Source into his/her everyday, ordinary life. Again, at that stage the oversoul chakra turns a bright gold color – and before that all the chakras below it come to acquire a golden background glow, one by one. In the terms I’ve used earlier, the “kensho” experience is the initial permanent entry of the Higher Mind as the individual’s central consciousness. The process which is going on as the chakras acquire the golden glow is the descension of the Higher Mind until it’s fully integrated with the physical world.

There’s then another, further descension process to go through, after “satori” has been reached. Once the Higher Mind has fully descended (and integrated with the physical), and only then, the Higher Mind itself experiences a higher level of enlightenment. This higher enlightenment begins the descent of Source itself into the individual, until in that individual Source becomes fully incarnated in the physical world – assuming the individual hasn’t physically died before this happens, of course.

These three stages are also described in the famous Taoist-Zen Ten Oxherding Pictures. The eighth picture describes the stage where one achieves “kensho”, and the ninth the stage where one achieves “satori”. In the hope that this may alleviate some confusion for some people, let me quote John M. Koller:

"The story of the ox and oxherd, separate at first, but united in the realization of the inner unity of all existence, is an old Taoist story, updated and modified by a twelfth century Chinese Buddhist master to explain the path to enlightenment. The ox symbolizes the ultimate, undivided reality, the Buddha-nature, which is the ground of all existence. The oxherd symbolizes the self, who initially identifies with the individuated ego, separate from the ox, but who, with progressive enlightenment, comes to realize the fundamental identity with the ultimate reality which transcends all distinctions. When this happens, the oxherd realizes the ultimacy of all existence; there is nothing that is not the Buddha-nature. He now understands the preciousness and profundity of the most ordinary things of life, illuminating ordinary living with his enlightenment.
…
"The eighth picture tells us that when the duality of self and reality has been overcome not only is reality (the ox) forgotten, but so is the self (the oxherd); the circle symbolizes the all-encompassing emptiness that constitutes the ground of all things. Now, in the awareness of unceasing transformation and total interconnectedness in every experience one is freed from … craving and hatred for the other. In this freedom there is a sense of the wholeness and perfection of ordinary things.

"As the ninth picture shows, when self and reality (as constructs) are left behind, then things are revealed to be just what they are in themselves; streams meander on of themselves and red flowers naturally bloom red. In the ordinary events of life are found the most profound truths. Only by seeking the ox as a separate ultimate reality could the oxherd discover that there is no separate reality; that the ultimate is to be found in the ordinary.

"Finally, the tenth picture shows the enlightened oxherd entering the town marketplace, doing all of the ordinary things that everyone else does. But because of his deep awareness everything he does is quite extraordinary. He does not retreat from the world, but shares his enlightened existence with everyone around him. Not only does he lead fishmongers and innkeepers in the way of the Buddha but, because of his creative energy and the radiance of his life, even withered trees bloom."

Incidentally, there seems to be considerable consensus that “satori” (by whatever name) is the point at which one becomes free of the requirement after death to reincarnate in the physical world (and, presumably, in “4D” or “5D” as well). As it happens I don’t fully agree with this, because the ego also needs to have been transcended to a certain level. And the ego doesn’t automatically drop off somehow just because one has a most profound realization. Rather, the ego requires lifelong vigilance, even if its influence becomes ever weaker. In the above descriptions of the oxherding pictures, it sounds as if one gets to a point of having no sense of a self separate from all else at all, but in reality one does have some sense of it, even if the insight is also there that it, like the body, is ultimately an illusion.

Traditionally, it was considered necessary to withdraw from society before one could attain even the lowest enlightenment experience, the “kensho” experience. But in Western society of recent times this is clearly no longer necessary in a substantial number of cases. Instead, we see the much more difficult – but, equally, much more profound – achievement of reaching “kensho” while remaining fully in the marketplace all the time. This is only possible, no doubt, because the consciousness of humanity as a whole has risen to a higher level. That consciousness is itself a very real thing, and everything we do contributes to it. Some say the consciousness level has risen because of long-term astronomical or astrological phenomena to do with the part of the universe the solar system is now in. Others claim it has risen so much because all the many Volunteers have incarnated here and so contributed to its overall uplifting just by being here. And so on.

So the journey (if it is a “journey”) is tougher in the modern Western society because the society doesn’t fund or approve of people who choose to drop out to seek enlightenment. But that does eventually make it easier for anyone who gets to Picture Eight to proceed more quickly through Picture Nine, and even, no doubt, through Picture Ten. It’s all good.

TraineeHuman

2nd October 2013, 05:54

From the major broad levels of enlightenment, which my previous post considered, let's now look at things from the other end. What about the person who is starting out and has had no transcendental experiences? Why might such a person even be interested in something higher within themselves?

For some it will at first simply be a matter of accepting the pursuit of the Higher consciousness out of what amounts to faith, taking it on trust. Others will have been "bitten" by something that makes them conscious of a great yearning for something "beyond".

Some Avalonians might also perhaps start from the fact that "the matrix" is built out of thoughts. And that there is therefore an urgent need to get beyond any "wall" made out of thoughts, even though most people do live in a world constructed out of such thoughts (the thoughts structuring and containing all feelings, for instance)and mistake it for reality -- as J. Krishnamurti sometimes explained so clearly.

In my experience, people who meditate properly for an hour or more per day eventually get a real taste, after maybe a few months, of something so profoundly beyond the physical and the emotional ("4D") and the mental ("5D") that they cannot deny its power nor its beauty -- nor even an unshakeable knowing that this comes from Source, from the Divine.

For many people, the Higher Mind is veiled from their direct awareness -- or seems to be. It remains possible, though -- and necessary -- for the outwardly-based individual to agree to listen to the inner voice or the inner hunger -- to consent to that, commit to it.

Usually, people don't come to an awareness of the Higher Mind through consciously seeking it, or Source. But their soul, their HM, brings them to that point. It does so quite independent of what may be going on in the mind or personality.

There is this phenomenon of you in some way hearing the call. Once you've heard it, and given it your support and assent, you can be sure you'll bring the HM fully into you, sooner or later.

For some people it's simply a hunger for something "beyond" the emotional and mental and physical, though they don't know what that might be. But in this thread we've been looking, for example, at the world of intentions and the world of intuition somewhat. So we do already have some insight into what that "beyond" world might involve.

What I find amazing is that the full, permanent coming down of the HM coincides with the "kensho" level of spiritual enlightenment. And these days so many people seem to be getting there, or on the way. And it all starts with that assent, in response to that hunger or that inner voice.

Even when a person has no idea how to get there, they can simply let their response to the hunger carry them along, they can just go with it, and that will take them to the right places.

I also very much like the Soto Zen sect's notion of enlightenment as something that happens gradually and incrementally at every stage. (The Soto sect is the largest Zen school.) After all, the value of any stage of enlightenment is in how you integrate it with your life overall. And the Soto idea is that you just keep going with that hunger and with working on yourself until one day you've reached satori but to you by that stage it's just compeletely normal and ordinary.

TraineeHuman

3rd October 2013, 09:37

Anyone who has read or begun reading Castaneda's The Art of Dreaming will be aware that what he calls "the first gate of dreaming" is to learn, through practice, to stay in contact with at least some feeling of yourself as you fall asleep -- as ruthy has already described above.

I'd like to add that Castaneda describes a prior skill he expects a person to develop. This is the skill of seeing auras, at least to some slight degree. The method for learning to see auras which he describes is that of looking cross-eyed (squinting) at the area around a person's head, preferably while in a dark or semi-dark room. I'd like to add that another way to develop this skill is to practice looking at a plant inside a darkened or completely dark room. I've found that many people after a short while become aware of seeing one or more colors above or around the plant. For most types of plants, these are usually one or more out of the colors blue, yellow and green, and also brown if the unfortunate plant is diseased or dying. Although these colors initially appear very pale indeed, with a little concentration they become easier to see. I've found that well over fifty per cent of interested individuals seem to acquire this skill straight away when starting off with a plant in a dark room.

It should be appreciated that in seeing auras we are looking at (our brain's representation of) pure energy -- at something which lies at least in the etheric dimension if not the astral dimension. It seems to be the case that auras are the brain's "translation" of pure energy into color. But it does this in exactly the same way as what occurs when one "sees" in the etheric or astral dimension. So, "the first gate of dreaming" evidently involves first learning to "see" in this higher way and, presumably, by learning to stay in touch with the feeling of one's extra-physical self as one's physical body falls asleep, learning to transfer the ability to see aura energy across the threshhold into sleep.

Arejay

3rd October 2013, 09:51

This is detailed and excellent. Thank you for taking the time to post this.

TraineeHuman

4th October 2013, 07:26

The following exercise may sound trite, but it certainly isn't, as I'll explain.

Exercise At all times, as far as you can, take pains to be extremely honest with yourself about yourself.

There's that quote from Hamlet that goes something like this:
"This thing alone above all:
To thine own self be true,
And it follows, as certain as night follows day,
That thou canst not be false to any man."

I suppose most would assume that is saying have great integrity with yourself and then you'll automatically be treating others with integrity at all times. However, I suspect the author(s) of the above lines may have been aware of a diffferent reason.

For instance, in psychology we know that all defence mechanisms are forms of denial (to oneself). And that the subconscious only gets to exist in us at all because, often particularly in our childhood, we find some events so painful or otherwise undesirable that we wipe them from our conscious memory. Ditto with our dark side, and our ego. So we see that a person who is and has been totally honest with herself/himself at all times will be free of ever having had any ego or subconscious or dark side.

Maybe it's starting to become clear, therefore, that radical self-honesty in all moments -- or call it "total sincerity" if you like -- is a major gateway for opening up and bringing in the Higher Mind. Moreover, it's a very important example of how the Higher Mind always works. The importance of doing this quite intensely at all times, if you can, can hardly be underestimated.

I suppose our conditioning of various kinds prompts us to gloss over or hide many of our weaknesses or failures or defeats or areas in us which are unpleasant or weak. But the point is, we'll never be able to clear any of these away, or work on improving ourselves in the relevant ways, unless we first clearly and specifically face such things inside us, and accept them for what they are (which will always include being something that needs to be removed or repaired or replaced).

And so, in the quote from Hamlet I would suggest that being always true to oneself will open up or continually strengthen one's communication with one's Higher Mind. The "self" one is being so true to changes into the HM! And that's the reason why one can (almost) never then be false to anyone else.

TraineeHuman

5th October 2013, 12:13

Radical self-honesty is crucially important. You won't fully bring down your Higher Mind/consciousness without, eventually, continually practicing this -- at least, you won't be successful in realizing the HM in this lifetime. That's why I need to provide any pointers I can think of about how it's done.

Firstly, let's say for some crazy reason you'd decided to become the most extreme ascetic in the world. I'm not sure what that would involve -- sleeping on a bed of nails that really were sharp, perhaps? But anyway, just supposing you wanted to become that, you'd teach yourself to do it gradually. Wouldn't you!

Well, it's no exaggeration to say that mastering radical self-honesty is tougher than learning to be the world's biggest ascetic. And yet, many people manage to do it, especially these days. I hope this makes the point that it must be done sensibly, gradually -- but with great courage.

Eram eloquently made the point, in post #994 on the 23rd of June, that suffering only comes to us because we're resisting facing the truth, facing reality. In the sense he was speaking, that's very true. But it's also true that the truth hurts. I guess it only hurts our ego. But until we're absolutely, totally in mastery of every bit of our ego, the truth about our own self will quite often continue to really, really hurt -- like a knockout punch. That pain, that you have to learn how to get beyond, is what makes the art of true self-honesty tougher than extreme asceticism. It's also why you need to master this gradually, in stages that may initially seem to have no end to them.

The universe is constantly providing every one of us with feedback on how we are doing, on what lessons we could have handled better. You can learn to tune into this in various ways. It's something that I do almost continually. Because that's part of the true "way".

But I do find it necessary to spend at least ten minutes in meditation every morning. During that meditation I go into worlds of great peace and bliss. That provides me with a kind of "base" that's positive enough to bear all the slings and arrows of the day and not usually be overcome by them. That's the best advice I know: learn true meditation, and get that daily "hit" from it.

As I mentioned in my previous post, we wouldn't even have a subconscious, nor an ego (in the sense most speak of it in meditation traditions), if we had been able to bear the truth about ourselves and about all that we experienced. Now I am saying we need to gradually learn how to bear all that totally.

As a first step, may I suggest that you cultivate complete sincerity at all times -- at least, at all practical times, because we all need to be diplomats or keep our lips zipped shut at certain times, often for business reasons or compassionate reasons.

I've recently talked of "right" suffering -- which is suffering that helps you quickly get rid of the things that cause you suffering. I know of nothing that is a better example of right suffering than the practice of radical self-honesty. You have to cultivate an absolute sincerity in the center of all parts of your being. This means loving the Truth and nothing but the Truth (including all the small-t truth about yourself).

Take two different people and they will inwardly be more the same than they are different, if you really look at everything about them. Most people have broadly the same sorts of inner weaknesses, more or less. The question is, though, can they be sincere enough not to try to justify themselves, and not to delude themselves with disguises that cover up the Light from their Higher being that is doing all it can to break through.

Don't be discouraged if in the beginning you have a kind of "mixed" attitude to being sincere. The parts of you that hide in the dark have corrupted your self-"government" and set up all sorts of habits that won't break down in a day. They have to be steadily worked through. But the same problem occurs for everyone, so don't be discouraged.

Secondly, can you calmly get yourself switched on to the Truth? Can you voluntarily choose to commit to the things higher and with no drama to turn away from the things lower? Also, can you turn inwards? Can you listen to your own "heart", your inner Presence -- and as far as practicable turn your interest away from what's outer to you?

TraineeHuman

6th October 2013, 00:50

Permanently bringing the Higher Mind into your center involves a second type of change in you as well. It's necessary that at some stage this whole endeavor has to become the one and only most important subject in your life, bar none!

Not, say, becoming a champion sportsperson, not becoming a consummate professional in some field, not the overwhelming pursuit of your greatest passion or hobby, not even being the best possible parent or romantic partner, and so on. No, now you have to take the gloves off. You have to be really one-pointed about this.

There's a reason why this has to be so. Your HM is enormously powerful and great (and subtle). Assuming you haven't brought in the HM yet, you -- whatever you may currently suppose you are -- are no match for it. Hence, you really have no option but to surrender to a power greater than yourself (what you currently suppose is yourself).

All you can do is stand in a type of humility and awe in the face of it.

Ironically, though, you also need to have a certain type of ambition in combination with that humility. Many types of ambition can be counterproductive because of their egoity. But not this type of ambition, which involves you having the mindset that you can truly achieve enlightenment. It's necessary to "think big" and "feel big" on this point, and to unshakeably aspire to excellence.

Such an ambition overcomes the conditioning to be mediocre. The irony is that, once you have permanently achieved the HM, you realize you never were "special" after all, even though you're now much more connected to the ground of all reality everywhere. You now realize it's an "ordinary" condition to be in, and not special. And yet, to anyone who hasn't achieved it yet, it seems extraordinary. Reality is more extraordinary than fiction -- probably because no-one would believe some of these things could be so until they experienced them.

If you are indeed for a certain period willing to tread the "strait and narrow path" of making spiritual liberation the one and only priority in your life, congratulations. Sooner or later you'll get to that point in any case (though possibly not in this lifetime for certain people, I guess, unfortunately), once you've given assent with all your soul to the inner hunger, as in post #1230. But it's also important not to become obsessive in certain ways. -- Ah, the need to stay balanced in all ways, and even to keep all those ways in balance with one another! And how dare I bring that up when I'm talking about one-pointedness! --

For example, it does seem to be beneficial to (almost) everyone to attend a meditation retreat, provided it involves true and serious meditation (and assuming the person doesn't have emotional disorders/etc that need to be sorted out first). It even seems beneficial to most individuals to join an ashram or monastery / etc for several years. But I would question whether doing so for ten or twenty years was the quickest path. I would also strongly question anyone who has any youngish kids or who is in a marriage or long de facto relationship doing so -- unless accompanied there by family members. I find that the Universe is a higher power that is ultimately in charge. If the Universe provides a challenge "in the world" rather than in the artificial environment of an ashram/etc, I find the lesson always seems to be just as effective as if it were learnt in the relative quiet of the latter type of environment. (sway take heart, and Eram, and others.)

I could add many things about what that special ambition and singlemindedness involves. Put whatever attention you can on the HM or its light or the closest you can get to it at any time, and let it communicate to you its power, its light, its trust, and its unmistakeable sense that everything can be easily done, no matter how little you may have progressed up till now. It helps especially if you can learn to stay a little more calm, more detached, in all exciting situations. I'm sorry if that will make you go off the enjoyment of football matches and most movies for the rest of your life, but if you do I promise you eventually won't regret that sacrifice.

Many people who are seeking true spiritual liberation will still be living at the mental or emotional or physical level, lit up occasionally by insights or experiences coming from the HM or Source. Or else their experience of the HM is often veiled or undercut by mental or emotional distortions. But when the time is right, it's necessary for them to open up wholeheartedly to to their intuition and hence to their HM in a big way. That will then start to bring the light even of Source itself directly into their lives now and then -- provided they remain one-pointed at such a stage.

Freed Fox

6th October 2013, 02:28

Great stuff, TH. A lot to take in from the last page or so of posts (still have the self-assigned homework of reading the Casteneda book mentioned earlier here to get to).

It helps especially if you can learn to stay a little more calm, more detached, in all exciting situations.

I've noticed this to be an issue for me, when things seem to start 'happening' during meditation. It's rare; I usually just have the initial stages of clearing my mind and releasing thoughts as they come, followed by the stillness itself. However, there are sometimes further sensations which arise from that stillness (which I've shared here), energetic feelings. One of those that I talked about felt distinctly like some kind of process, which furthermore I felt was interupted and moved away from by my own excitement in regard to it.

EDIT: Post #1175 was the specific example I was referring to, but having looked back I realize that in that particular instance, it actually occurred prior to clearing my mind, rather than proceeding it. Still, there are variations of this, but again they are exceedingly rare for me. I might chalk that infrequency up to my lack of diligence (haven't been meditating regularly these past few weeks!) :moony:

TraineeHuman

7th October 2013, 14:22

... during meditation ... I usually just have the initial stages of clearing my mind and releasing thoughts as they come, followed by the stillness itself. However, there are sometimes further sensations which arise from that stillness (which I've shared here), energetic feelings. One of those that I talked about felt distinctly like some kind of process, which furthermore I felt was interupted and moved away from by my own excitement in regard to it.

Let's see if we can clear up what I suspect is some possible confusion around the topic of meditation. Firstly, meditation of course isn't the only helpful means to liberation. There's also work, love, constructive relationships, and many other things.

Let's take work as an example. The "lowest" aspects of the ego are usually intertwined quite considerably with laziness of one kind or another. This means that if you're working properly on your spiritual evolution, probably one of the first "hurdles" you'll have found you overcame was as follows. Unlike the majority of the population, you're now not at all lazy at the work you do for a living. OK, everyone does need to spend some time "being lazy" in the sense of relaxing from all the pressures, such as on weekends or whenever they can. Even mothers of young children need to find some "down time", preferably every day. I know, easier said than done. But this conquest of laziness can be achieved more quickly precisely because of the pressure of work, or, even more so, the pressure of being the parent of a young child.

Somewhat similar remarks apply to "love" as a means of development, and the overcoming of fixed prejudices and of seeing situations from the point of view of others involved.

I suggest, however, that meditation often seems to be the best of the ways to accelerate your liberation. Let me clarify that there are a number of different things which people may sometimes use the term "meditation" to cover. (Incidentally, I did attempt to describe various aspects of what meditation and contemplation are around posts #283 (3rd February) to #298, and around #290 to #302, and elsewhere.)

The type of meditation I do for ten minutes or more each morning is something which from the beginning involved the stepping away from its slavery to the thought process, from the usual "compulsory" flow of thoughts. It involves the emptying of all thought out of the mind. Once one learns to do it properly, what one most often experiences is entirely or mostly formless -- and it's beyond physical (and emotional, and mental) space. It's exhilirating pure freedom (and real freedom to choose).

One also comes to clearly see and know, every time one meditates silently in this way, that this blissful world is the truest, realest reality -- at least in comparison to the ordinary world one lives in. (Not to deny that the latter is also certainly real.)

The point, though, Freed Fox, is that all this is entirely or mostly formless. That means it's quite beyond all concepts and pictures and words. (Can you imagine what freedom?) So, you saying you've only seen inner "movies" or whatever on several occasions doesn't mean you've been a failure at (silent) meditation at all.

Having said that, let me make it clear what the most helpful and broadly liberating practice seems to be, particularly as far as freeing you of ego goes. That practice is self-observation, or, if you like, self-enquiry. But this seems to work most successfully and intensely if it's combined with the formless type of meditation I described at the beginning -- or, at least, with a raising of your awareness level ideally to at least a formless level.

Although there are higher "levels" to doing this, initially you may find yourself watching some of the chains of thoughts or pictures that make up your ego, i.e. the emotional memories and programs in your lower mind. The end result of managing to do this over a long period will be that you will attain great emotional maturity, and considerable freedom from the influence of the ego.

If I interpret you correctly, Freed Fox, you'e saying you've managed to do something like this, but only on several occasions. If that's correct, then I would say congratulations on having taught yourself how to do it. That's impressive. I need some clarification. Are you saying you don't know how to keep doing it? Is that part of your issue?

Let me also stress that the more strongly one develops one's ability to do "formless meditation", the more potentially skillful and effective one becomes at this as well.

Is this relevant to what you were talking about, FF?

Freed Fox

7th October 2013, 15:30

Although there are higher "levels" to doing this, initially you may find yourself watching some of the chains of thoughts or pictures that make up your ego, i.e. the emotional memories and programs in your lower mind. The end result of managing to do this over a long period will be that you will attain great emotional maturity, and considerable freedom from the influence of the ego.

Sorry for not being very clear, Trainee. The above is what I have noticed personally, since beginning at least semi-regular meditation. I've also noticed that emotional control/maturity seems to slip slightly, if I go too long without meditating (becoming frustrated, or impatient more easily is typically how it manifests for me).

From time to time, while initially beginning meditation, a painful or emotional memory will be among the thoughts which come up, and I try to use that opportunity to 'clear' myself of it (forgive myself and other parties involved, release the emotion tied to the memory, and essentially just 'move on' from being hung up over it).

If I interpret you correctly, Freed Fox, you'e saying you've managed to do something like this, but only on several occasions. If that's correct, then I would say congratulations on having taught yourself how to do it. That's impressive. I need some clarification. Are you saying you don't know how to keep doing it? Is that part of your issue?

Let me also stress that the more strongly one develops one's ability to do "formless meditation", the more potentially skillful and effective one becomes at this as well.

Is this relevant to what you were talking about, FF?

Yes and no, perhaps... :lol: I guess this tends to happen when discussing what words can scarcely describe.

The introspective element was not the rare occurence I was trying to describe. What I was talking about are times when I seem to be experiencing strange, energetic sensations (for lack of accurate or adequate terminology). The sensations aren't always the same, but they seem very distinct from the sort of peacefulness bordering on bliss that tends to come around, if and when I manage to clear my mind and sufficiently maintain that state of stillness.

For all I know, these could be onsets of consciously initiated OBE's, however they do not seem to match up with what people describe of those (vibrations, buzzing sounds, and an 'electric' feeling). I make this comparison only because, in the past, they have struck me as if I was passing through something, or changing in some way. Sometimes it even feels like a physical transformation, though of course that never seems to be the case, and in every instance it seems to stop or recede before reaching the 'destination', if you will.

I apologize for not doing a better job in describing these, but the sensations themselves vary, and again they are a rare occurrence for me.

TraineeHuman

9th October 2013, 09:12

I've received a PM from a member who writes of looking forward to experiencing the formless, "if it exists". Let me try to list some ways everyone already seems to know that the formless does exist.

People may not be aware that Buddhism and Hinduism take the the notion that the higher worlds or dimensions are all formless for granted as one of the most basic truths. So let's not count that.

Firstly, then, we know that the mechanical mind is something real in our lives. But everyone also seems to know that there's more to our mind or consciousness than the purely mechanical. Anything that's more or "beyond" the mechanical is formless. So, if you feel you know you're not just a (bioelectrochemical) robot, then you do feel that part of you -- the most important part -- is formless.

Secondly, consider how we can do virtually nothing without "looking". And how before we focus our attention on any particular object, we usually first just look at everything. In that initial moment we are using indeterminate attention -- i.e., we haven't determined yet what we want to focus on. You could also call this our "general awareness". The point is, it doesn't have any fixed perspective or bias -- any one form. Rather, it's something that fits all sizes, so to speak. In other words, it has no set form (or set content in advance) at all.

Thirdly, the formless is anything that lies on the other side of "me". By this I mean that we all seem to feel we know that "I" means something different from "me". We know where "me" is, because (unless we happen to have gone OB) it's where the physical body is. But where is "I"? Well, the type of world it lives in is always formless.

We may like to believe that we are only physical, emotional and mental beings. But the formless constantly impinges on our lives, not forcing anything but constantly supporting us.

TraineeHuman

11th October 2013, 04:38

Learning to communicate using just pictures or symbols instead of words is a skill which I'd suggest everyone interested in OB experience needs to learn thoroughly -- and therefore practice practice practice. You can't play a concerto if you haven't learnt your scales.

It's not so hard to do. After all, that was a very big part of how we communicated during age zero to about twelve months.

I've found that somewhere around the twelve month point of their lives, people begin to talk, at first using very telegraphic "sentences" some of which are full of private meanings at first. At that point they form a (false) identity, which needs to be eventually "blown" through psychotherapy or self-enquiry.

In my own case this happened at the age of ten months. At the time I had started wetting my bed. Although more than 50% of infants do this and, like me, grow out of the habit within several months, my mother was quite distraught about it. After all, I had an older brother who didn't develop a habit at any stage. Imagine, then, what it would be like for an infant to have many of his initial word-based communications be on the subject of bedwetting! My tactic was to upstage all that by creating and promoting an identity of being very cute and pleasant -- kind of the exact opposite of what one might expect from a bedwetter.

One thing that was different in my case was that my mother was very clairvoyant, even though she truly believed this was entirely "normal", having had a very clairvoyant mother herself. And clairvoyants mostly bypass using words. Like animals, they use symbols and pictures instead.

Incidentally, if you have a pet I can strongly recommend practicing with Diddums until you can hold very simple (approximate) conversations using mental pictures and feelings. I find that most cats and dogs who are complete strangers, and some birds, will be very pleased to pick up on any gesture of good will or friendliness if it's expressed in this "language". They will often instantly make themselves friends of yours for life.

Don't be surprised, though, if your pet assumes you're more fluent in that "language" than you initially find you are. But it can be loads of fun to learn how to communicate more fluently with your pet. You may discover that your pet faithfully copies all your mental pictures and feelings all the time anyway, positive or negative. You are the parent of your pet.

When I began primary school, I was more used to "speaking" with telepathic pictures than with words. In fact, I wasn't used to using just words alone at all. The teacher had the class divided into four rows. The row she put me at the front (the bottom position) of was the Turtles row. The teacher said more about Turtles than about the any of the three other animals of the other rows. Always nice things. She said how reliable they were, and how they might be slow and steady but they always got there in the end.

Still, after a while I realized I was at the bottom of the weakest row. From my classmates I got the idea that maybe it was more desirable to be an Eagle, or even a Kangaroo. That was even though I didn't know what any of these creatures were, and the Kangaroos were supposed to be able to leap what sounded to me like tall buildings -- which I felt was way too dangerous and silly. And after all, the Turtles had much stronger backs than any of the others, which couldn't be a bad thing. The only danger with being a Turtle was if you were unlucky enough never to learn to read. That one was huge. But I felt if it was so important, I'd find a way.

Two weeks before the end of the year I got moved to the Eagles row, and straight to the top of that row. One week before the end of the year the teacher explained I was now a Kangaroo. I didn't like the idea of being one of those, so she said that was OK, I could stay in the Eagles row if I wanted.

But the following year I found I had been promoted to skipping a whole year -- along with one of the Kangaroos. Maybe it might be OK to be a Kangaroo after all.

A little later, during my adolescence I became aware that the formless (and beyond) made up most of reality. But for some reason people didn't see this. That brought me to two-and-a-half long decades of being called "vague" or "idealistic" or "strange" or maybe "impractical" as I slowly learnt to adjust. That's adjust to seeing all aspects of life from what was really the much more limited angle, where you pretend the formless doesn't exist. Hmm.

I guess if you try being open-ended rather than closed, you're at least opening a door that can potentially let the formless in, into whatever situation you're in. I guess all sorts of things that are really there are "invisible" to us if we have the relevant blinkers on. I'm sure this has some connection with why some people have trouble "seeing" much other than darkness when they go OB. Though having mugwort under the pillow does seem to help some people like this, and it also protects against nasties.

Practice, practice, practice communicating with pictures and symbols, because you can do more with these than you can with English.

There's also a "language" ever so far beyond pictures too. It's a "language" I know and love. Most of my life it's been ever so frustrating not to be able to share it with people. One day. Or one beyond-time period in the "future", I'm sure.

TraineeHuman

13th October 2013, 01:50

Samanic Shredder and NancyV have both recently made the point that astral travel seems to be much easier, and the experience fuller, if one is sufficiently energised. I didn't mention how of course that makes sense because the astral worlds ("4D" and "5D") are worlds made of electromagnetism -- i.e., pure "energy". By contrast, the physical world is made of "matter", whatever that is -- and of gravity, whatever that is. (According to Newton, gravity is omnipresent, and it acts instantaneously -- which is infinitely faster than the speed of light.)

This leaves some unanswered questions. Why is it, for example, that when we die we automatically seem to break through into pure "energy" and we sure don't quickly return to the world of matter? It obviously has something to do with dying. I've already tried to stress the central importance of "letting go" if one wants to astral travel. But what else can we say about dying, and the art of dying?

Well, one thing I've noticed primarily through individuals connected with PA has been as follows. When I've dome psychic healings on people who are terminal patients, they are, compared to others, total in the way they act. Every one of them is like this, regardless of how neurotic etc they have been in their life up till that point. Some of them totally reject the healing energy because they subconsciously want to die. But most accept it totally, and usually live at least a few years more as a result. The puzzle for me has been, why aren't even some of the most aware or honest or courageous PA members who aren't facing imminent death not as total?

That, then, brings us to an exercise which will help bring a person closer to that extraordinary consciousness, that psychological rebirth that all or most terminal patients seem to find. The exercise is to be truly total in everything you do. I appreciate others may consider you are weird because you seem to love your job, whatever it may be; or because you're so dedicated just to making your close family members, or your friends, happier all the time.

Incidentally, here in Australia we have the indigenous Aboriginals. Although the current generation, at least the urban dwellers, have lost touch with all the psychic and astral side of their traditional culture, there's one thing they haven't lost. And that is, when they get together they alsways manage to find ways to laugh their heads off. Obviously one example of what it can mean to be total about enjoying your friends.

TraineeHuman

13th October 2013, 12:24

Anything that's pure energy has the quality of "free flow" -- both "free" and "flowing", somewhat. This is in contrast to matter. The "free" and the "flowing" qualities are both the resilt of not so many forms being present -- i.e., of the removal or destruction of quite a few kinds of forms.

If you look at what death is, or, indeed, what true letting go is, you'll notice that these also involve the removal or destruction of various limiting forms.

Putting thinking about it aside, though, I'd like to ask in what ways can you experience "free flow" of any kind. For instance, you could learn t'ai chi, or judo, or aikido, or qi gong. In each case, once you learn to do it properly the exercise seems to be "doing you" more than you doing the exercise.

In other words, it becomes free flow. You can also practice free flow of the mind/consciousness, such as in brainstorming, or just writing down everything that comes into your mind without any evaluation or judging; or theater impro, i.e. acting without a script but still doing your best to weave a story in collaboration with other people doing the same. Or creating your own business, or your own work of art. Or surfing. Or flying a glider, bungee jumping, water skiing, 3-meter diving, and so on.

These are only some examples of "free flow". Another, of course, is to truly live in the Now -- but the difficulty in learning to do that is getting what it really does and doesn't mean. So can you remain stable in the face of nothing but the totally unknown -- and still lead a "normal" everyday life?

If I was going to spend a few weeks or months in some totally foreign and different country, I'd consider it foolish not to do a small amount of research about that country. It would perhaps be very desirable to learn certain phrases in the main language(s) of that country, for instance. Otherwise, one might wonder what the point was of visiting that country in the first place.

Similarly, I don't see how there can be so much value for anyone in experiencing astral travel unless they first become familiar with "free flow". Not the concept, but a big dollop of the real experience.

I notice that the two individuals who seem to have described what I regard as proper astral travel OBEs in this thread the most fully -- namely, Libico and AwakeInADream -- both seemed to include a considerable amount of reference to something like free flow as occurring even in the very process of their being able to have the astral travel experience they described in each case.

In the interests of avoiding ambiguity, may I add that I've heard experienced meditators talk of "free fall" to mean living constantly in formlessness -- or, as some of them claimed/believed/achieved -- constantly in Source. I'm not talking about such lofty heights here at all, but just about living in the world of pure energy.

Incidentally, one of the major topics in the Rig Veda and in Vedanta generally (and hence underlying the teachings of virtually all Indian gurus) is the gignatic differences between the formless (which is the Higher consciousness) and Source (which is all the Divine or Universal worlds). This is equally one of the major and most detailed topics in Zen Buddhism, and in almost every major esoteric or spiritual tradition I have significant familiarity with.

TraineeHuman

14th October 2013, 13:32

At present I'm writing posts relating to making astral travel hopefully easier on the one hand, and to what happens during or before the descent of the HM on the other.

At the risk of repeating myself, most of the astral travelers I've known have regarded other types of OB experience as so important that, like me, they eventually lost interest in practicing deliberate astral travel regularly. As far as I know, the same is true of a number (many?) of Monroe's graduates. Tom Campbell being one example. Maybe seeker Joe can enlighten us further regarding Monroe's graduates?

In this post I'd like to say more about the descent of the HM. As the name suggests, when the HM is stably present we get the removal of major aspects of the mechanical mind, no less! This means the removal of various limitations. Particularly, limitations around seeing things as they actually are.

The HM brings in some higher desires, higher impulses, even at a physical level. The lower consciousness, most of which is certainly subconscious in most individuals, records absolutely everything in detail, nonjudgmentally, all the time.

The lower consciousness doesn't have any strong control over what it does or doesn't receive anyway. True, using your will can make a big difference. But the HM brings a whole new ball game.

When the HM is present, your overall consciousness gradually becomes transformed. It starts to "naturally" reject anything that doesn't help you grow towards Source, anything that isn't true or right. Yes, the HM can be very discriminating, and very judgmental in this particular sense.

You'll notice that the HM removes some limitations, such as prejudices, and hence makes us less judgmental in an absolute sense. But equally, it begins to guide us more and more to reject all that brings unnecessary suffering, all that isn't right or true.

Also this being discriminating, or judgmental in a certain sense, bypasses the mental -- the mechanical thinking mind -- altogether. It comes straight from your spirit, from out of the sounds of silence. It's how we were all meant to live. Humans used to live like this many thousands of years ago, and they will again soon.

A word of warning, though. The HM sweeps you clean of some of the workings of your mechanical mind, and that leaves a kind of clean space. It's possible for either some energies from the emotional "mind" to come rushing in, or else garbage mechanical habits from the physical mind. You have to keep watching (yourself) at all times. Or. also, what can come in is negative but powerful urges from the subconscious, rising to the surface. These will often involve such things as powerful sexual desire, or the lust for power or domination. The number of spiritual teachers or gurus who seem to fall into this problem at some stage is huge.

Why does this happen? Presumably because great power corrupts, even great inner power. However, this is magnified ego, if it happens. Magnified by the achievement of such things as otherwise strong detachment and some experience of Source and so on -- which releases magnified inner forces and power, including magnified love and bliss.

I've noticed that this problem seems to mostly only happen to those spiritual teachers or gurus etc who have strong emotional "selves". Ironically, that will fairly often coincide with having a strongly developed "4D" astral body.

The issue here seems to be that such individuals haven't, at some point, been keeping pace with the ever greater forces and ever greater "clean spaces" coming from the HM. What happens in such unfortunate cases is that the HM withdraws somewhat, or is covered over by something else. Meanwhile the great inner power gets corrupted and subverted, for a time at any rate.

Joe Akulis

14th October 2013, 16:30

Hello TH!

I can relate to quite a bit of the things you discussed in your last note. From rejecting things that bring unnecessary suffering to the empty space that can get occupied by interesting urges.

I believe it can help people to deal with negative things, or "potholes along the way", by tempering their growth with knowledge that has been gained from other people's experiences. I know you like to refrain from suggestions about what people can expect with regard to certain phases of our spiritual exploration and growth, and I definitely agree with your reasons. But I think it's important to spend time learning about all the pioneers, because it can help you with potholes that can sometimes send people off on paths that the HM would view as irrelevant. I'm no Castenada(sp?) scholar, but I think Castaneda is a good example of someone who struggled like this, and I think Don Juan tried his best to caution him about exactly what you're speaking of.

As far as Monroe students go, I've gobbled up a few books that I could find out there, and my favorite is Bruce Moen. He reminds me a lot of Ray, our fellow Avalonian, in that he did become quite a veteran at the astral rescue work for a time. Some very neat stories there, and extremely informative. Some of his biggest gains spiritually seem to have come during the times he spent at the Monroe Institute, but once he became familliar with the phases of 4d consciousness, he was able to move to them regularly and with ease. To answer your question, yes, it seems to me that most of Moen's work was done by just shifting the focus of his awareness, not by actually separating and using an energy body to astral travel. I enjoyed following along as Bruce learned about the different regions of 4d. He has a couple stories about his use of expanded awareness, and things to do with the zone where time is sort of managed, like viewing timelines, and interacting with beings involved in timeline management, (YOU when you're not on sabbatical.) :-) He learned about the belief system territories and spent lots of time with astral rescue work, including rescuing himself... Seems like a lot of people who get into astral rescue are given themselves as some of their first rescues. Amazing stuff. He also talks about the receiving area in the higher levels of 4d, and all different ways people try to make someone comfortable after a recent exit from 3d. He also goes out beyond there to an area which I think is bordering on 5d perhaps, where a lot of our other neighborhood friends have been hanging out and "watching the show" here for one reason or another.

I read a lot of things about higher regions of consciousness only being available to people who have raised their energy levels enough, but do you think that just knowing that certain places exist can have the same effect? Like could I snag a guide or angel in the afterlife and say, "Okay, zip me up past all this to the park bench in upper 4d."? Or would they say, "Sorry chump, you didn't get your energy levels up enough and can't get any higher than this pseudo-heaven full of these Catholics here." Part of me thinks the answer might have more to do with things that happen when we're asleep, which is a bummer because 3d-me is missing out on most of that action...

Much love always,
Joe

Freed Fox

14th October 2013, 21:48

Last night I'm pretty sure I entered "The Phase". Before I get into this, I want to apologize beforehand if anything in this post comes off as redundant, or otherwise evident of a lack of understanding. I have been keeping up here, but not everything about the 'dimensions' above our present physical one has really 'stuck' with me. Not because I have been dismissive or inattentive necessarily, but rather due to my limited first-hand experiences with these realms (I believe).

I 'awoke' from a dream, without fully waking up. I assume it was the Phase because I felt distinctly between wakefulness and dream consciousness (partial lucidity, you might say). I might have mentioned it before, but I sleep blind-folded (covering my head with a t-shirt :p ). My field of vision was thus partially obscured by this, but what I could see beyond it was my bedroom as normal, except there were two figures there. Two little girls; one of which was like a centaur, except that the bottom half of her body was like a giant beetle rather than a horse. They were literally the only things 'out of place' from what I could see, and they had a light blue glow/aura around them. I had a case of sleep paralysis at the time, too. I remember struggling to move, or at least focus, but I didn't manage to do so before waking up in actuality. I realized in hindsight that I should have tried cycling through Raduga's 'indirect techniques' for exiting the body, but it just didn't occur to me at the time.

On a related note, how exactly does one develop their '4d body'? Is it the same sort of process as bringing down the HM, or is it different?

TH, regarding your last post, there's quite a bit there that I find encouraging, as I've been seeing some of these signs for myself. For example, rejecting certain things which are harmful, or undesirable to expansion of consciousness. For one thing, for awhile now, I've been feeling basically incapable of doing harm to anything. Just the other day, there was a particularly annoying house fly in the room with me, just being as obnoxious as possible, but I still had no desire to kill it. A creature which, I think, most 'ordinary' people would not think twice about killing... once upon a time I was one of them, but not anymore. It feels like an understanding, that regardless of the level of consciousness within other creatures (which I cannot myself determine), and whatever my purpose here may be, it isn't my place to extinguish them... to bring any life to an end, whether large or small.

When the HM is present, your overall consciousness gradually becomes transformed. It starts to "naturally" reject anything that doesn't help you grow towards Source, anything that isn't true or right.

Do you believe that, in this regard, what is 'true or right' is universally the same? Or, at least, the same for every human being? On the other hand, could there potentially be levels of subjectivity, in regard to what would be the most fulfilling or self-actualizing on an individual basis? I'm thinking in terms of spiritual development, which I guess would be synonymous with pursuing/activating/'descending' the Higher Mind, no?

There was a bit more I was going to get into, but I feel it might be a bit too personal and perhaps not applicable/relevant enough to others here... so I'll leave it at that for now. :)

TraineeHuman

15th October 2013, 12:38

I think it's important to spend time learning about all the pioneers, because it can help you with potholes that can sometimes send people off on paths that the HM would view as irrelevant. I'm no Castenada(sp?) scholar, but I think Castaneda is a good example of someone who struggled like this, and I think Don Juan tried his best to caution him about exactly what you're speaking of.

Hello Joe! Very interesting comments, as usual. In the Introductory Note to The Art of Dreaming, Castaneda mentions how he had only "three parts" while a proper sorcerer has "four parts". I take it this almost certainly means that he had "3D", "4D" and "5D" bodies, but had not established stable contact with his HM -- which is the "fourth part".

That would explain why don Juan seemed to talk so much and so often to Castaneda about the world of the "nagual" (the HM), and the vital importance of building a bridge/etc to it.

Regarding the difficulty of the struggle with possessing greater inner force and power as the HM is released/contacted, I take it all the emphasis from don Juan about how one absolutely must be "impeccable" is relevant to this. But can you remember specific books or specific examples/ideas/stories in Castaneda's books?

Maybe ruthy does?

As far as Monroe students go, I've gobbled up a few books that I could find out there, and my favorite is Bruce Moen.

Do you know if any of Bruce Moen's books are available as pdfs?

He [Bruce] reminds me a lot of Ray, our fellow Avalonian, in that he did become quite a veteran at the astral rescue work for a time.

I've done a little "rescue work" of various kinds, including rescue of myself. There are gigantic "hospitals in the sky" in mid-"4D" where various types of such work take place for quite large numbers of the recently dpearted from the physical.

I don't deny that "rescue work" of the type Ray does, and presumably Bruce also, is a valuable thing to do. I guess it's valuable because beings from higher dimensions can have trouble "descending" sufficiently into the "mud" of the astral worlds to see precisely who needs help and is, moreover, ready to accept it, or ready to be persuaded to.

However, unfortunately I still consider the main journey most of us are meant to make is to ascend our individual consciousness as quickly as possible into unification with our HM and even with Source. And not to linger in the byways too much. It would still be great, though, if you could summarise some of Bruce's most interesting stories about rescue work.

[Bruce] has a couple stories about his use of expanded awareness, and things to do with the zone where time is sort of managed, like viewing timelines, and interacting with beings involved in timeline management

I would say that timeline "management" usually originates in the lower formless worlds, which I've called "6D" or "7D". However, a timeline change would in my understanding then be descended from "6D", where it would only be an unsayable idea/insight/inspiration.viewpoint/imagination, into "5D" where it becomes sayable as a picture or concept, and thence "4D", which is the emotional world(s), and ultimately into materialisation in the physical.

I'll have to leave it to another post to respond to your remaining points. As usual, your post is very "big picture", and references many different topics. Which strongly suggests someone who has developed their HM (whether they know it or not) and even their intuition.

If you'd like to expand in more detail on some of the interesting things Bruce Moen has written about, I'm sure that would be extremely welcome to all.

Joe Akulis

15th October 2013, 23:23

Hmm. I doubt there are pdfs for the books I was reading. I had to order the paperbacks from a bookstore on the internet. "Voyages Into the Unknown" is the first one in the series.

That's a good tidbit there about where timeline management usually takes place. I can see that my understanding of the area that Monroe nicknamed the area of "no time" must not be quite what I thought. (I'm just going to have to check it out for myself.)

Let's see, rescue stories... One time a friend of his asked him to check in on an Aunt of hers that had recently passed away, just to make sure she was fine. So a few days later when he was ready to try, Bruce relaxed and peered into the "3d blackness" as he likes to call it... Once he focused on this person's name he waited and then saw a swirling shimmer and headed for it. It transported him to the person he wanted to see. She seemed to be alone, with nothing else around her. As soon as he came close enough to her to be seen, she took off screaming. So he tried again, but slower this time, and trying to speak to her as gently as he could, to tell her that her niece asked him to pay her a visit. But as soon as she could hear his voice, she took off screaming. On the third try he could hear her screaming about the hounds of hell as she fled. This gave him the clue to understand why he couldn't get close to her. She must've held a pretty strong belief that there were hell hounds who stalked the afterlife, looking for prey. Her mind was convincing her that Bruce was out to eat her and drag her to hell.

Running out of things to try, Bruce then said, "Is there someone here who can help me out?" Then he heard a voice tell him that he should ask the woman's niece to come help. So he did, and shortly after that, this niece shows up to lend a hand. Fortunately her voice was recognizable to the woman and it got her to pause and stop and ask who it was that was speaking to her out of the darkness. Eventually the niece was able to calm her down and get her to come close. Then Bruce was able to wrap them both up and transport them to the reception area while they were talking to each other. They found a grassy field where the niece was then able to successfully introduce Bruce to her aunt, and now she could see him properly. They also brought a couple other relatives to her that had died before she did and that was a big comfort. Mission accomplished.

One thing I wondered about this story, since the woman's niece was also still living, is whether or not she even realizes consciously here what went on out there.

Got anything you could add about this "reception area" of 4d, TH? Is that where the giant hospitals are that you mention? My understanding is that there can be just about anything there, depending on what can help someone. If someone doesn't realize they died yet, and are laying on a field in the afterlife full of bullet holes, then yes, having some people take him to a hospital usually is a good first step. Eventually the doctors break the news to ya. :-)

I think your explanation of why it can be harder for a being from 5 or 6d to reach people who are stuck in lower 4d is right on. Bruce talks about how sometimes, only the living who are astral travelling or projecting like this are able to be seen by the person who recently died. Gotta be due to similarities in energy levels, I'm thinking.

TraineeHuman

16th October 2013, 12:24

, how exactly does one develop their '4d body'? Is it the same sort of process as bringing down the HM, or is it different?

It would be too vast a task to describe the 4D body fully. However, I'll describe some things about how the 4D and 5D bodies are dominated by the ego in most people which should sound very familiar to everyone!), and about breaking free from that.

Developing your 4D and 5D bodies means something like this. Firstly, development of the emotions (which are the 4D body), and hence the development of their effective use, and even the mastery of your emotional impulses. Emotions are really just energy constructed in certain ways (so that fear is the energy of flight or avoidance, for instance). Mastery means you can turn them on and off at will, or allow them to flow when it's totally appropriate (like fear, but only if a charging bull is definitely about to collide with you,say).

Secondly, for the 5D body it means getting free of and having mastery over what we can call the emotional mind (which controls most of the 5D body when the ego has strong influence over you). The emotional mind is then subject to the whims of the willful, trigger-happy emotions. The emotional mind acts in a knee-jerk fashion, rather randomly and always excessively. It takes over full control of the individual at times, showing little restraint. It also keeps one constantly quite out of touch with what's truly important and necessary, what's realistic and discreet and kind and patient.

So, mastery of the energy bodies (4D and 5D) can at a certain stage lead to their becoming louder, so to speak. It's only a temporary stage (hopefully). But it happens because the individual has at least broken through some/much of the "cover" the ego has hidden behind, in the hope of staying in hiding from its host.

The 4D world is simply the world of emotional energies. If someone removes enough of their ego's "cover", they're likely to be able to astral travel easily.

I used to have a spiritual teacher and therapist for several years who had no control of his temper, even though he had some level of mastery in some other areas. He would burst into an insane rage for quite minor reasons at times. He would be louder and angrier and use more energy than anyone just about anywhere. He believed that at such times he was showing how "free" he was to "accept" his anger and tolerate it and not resist. But to any detached bystander it was obvious that he had failed to begin to learn how to control or master or master or discipline his anger as yet. Apart, that is, from learning how to totally disinhibit and let it spew out. This person ultimately had unresolved PTSD issues from past abuse, that I understand never got resolved until the day he died, unfortunately.

The emotional mind imagines exaggerated things about everything in one's life, but it needs to be quelled and replaced by the quieter consciousness that is the beginnings of the HM.

I guess the ultimate way to guarantee safety for yourself in the astral worlds is to achieve total mastery and maturity of all your emotions. Then nothing will be able to blow your cool.

I'll respond to more of your post later, FF.

mahalall

16th October 2013, 12:39

Just adding to the thread observations from clinical setting,

Ketamine psychotropic properties must be taken into account. Patients have reported vivid hallucinations, "going into other worlds" or "seeing God" while anesthetized, and these unwanted psychological side effects have reduced the use of ketamine in human medicine.

pls note, not to advocate of recreational use/abuse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketamine

TraineeHuman

17th October 2013, 00:53

I can see that my understanding of the area that Monroe nicknamed the area of "no time" must not be quite what I thought. (I'm just going to have to check it out for myself.)

"No time" -- at least, no measurable time -- is something I would describe as including all of 6D and above. I wouldn't describe it as being anywhere in what I consider the 4D world(s). I guess I'd prefer calling it "beyond (measurable) time". It's where one may be able to see all (current or likeliest) presents, pasts and futures. (The measurable part of time is simply what most ordinary people would consider "time" to be.)

I'd say change in itself is a kind of "super-time", or "pre-time" if you like. That's because even the entire universe -- not just the lower dimensions --, and everything within, is subject to change, and more change.

When a person dies they lose the more peripheral parts of the ego in their 4D and 5D bodies (or call them "envelopes" or "sheaths" or "suits"). Ideally they should shed those bodies completely straight away, and some -- the truly enlightened or wise, who know they are leaving all that is past behind -- do so. But most people cling to those bodies, those "selves", and hence suffer in the afterlife ultimately because they remain in a kind of extreme separation from the fullness of reality. Eventually everyone does shed them completely -- according to myself and various others who are capable of clearly discerning the difference between the formless and the worlds of form.

I now remember meeting Bruce Moen around 15 years ago at a Mind Body Spirit Festival in Eastern Australia. He gave a talk mostly about how to communicate with a recently deceased relative or friend. After it finished, I asked him some questions relating to the difference between the 4D and 5D bodies (in whatever terminology he was using) and the true essence of the individual. Bruce seemed to strongly deny that there was any difference between the two at all. I then asked him a number of clarifying questions, and unfortunately he seemed to very firmly insist on that position.

In retrospect, it's a pity I asked him about that particular topic, because no doubt he had interesting information to share. I'm glad to hear, though, that at least two of Monroe's graduates -- and possibly the most prominent ones at that? -- apparently no longer astral travel much at all. Monroe and his Institute seems to have been the only "tradition" that didn't embed astral travel into something much broader, usually including practices of extensive meditation and psychotherapy in some form -- and where usually the HM and beyond was all that was ultimately important -- plus the bringing of it into everyday life.

I'll reply to the rest of your posts shortly, Joe.