The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs [Archive] - Page 8

TraineeHuman

23rd August 2014, 06:53

Doetem, I'd like to offer some further suggestions about how to learn to meditate -- at the risk of your possibly getting overwhelmed with all the suggestions. But this question is the one I get asked the most often in PMs (closely followed by the question of how to astral project in a completely safe way). You see, I'm sure a number of us could go on indefinitely about this subject. We love this stuff. We're married to it. We live it so intimately.

One very effective gateway into meditation is just to keep really facing whatever's false in you, and not dodging, but allowing it to fall away. As Sherlock Holmes would say, whatever's left over must be the true you.

A second gateway -- which applies once you've been making some progress in meditation, but I'm throwing it in anyway, because I consider it's so good -- is to drop all doubting of whatever you seem to experience during meditation. (About eighteen years ago, while meditating I suddenly saw that no form of work was actually boring to me. Instead, that it was me that would get boring when I did certain forms of work. Since that day I can do any kind of work and not feel one ounce of boredom, ever. But that's after over half a lifetime of meditating.) All doubt (in situations such as this) comes from the (ordinary) mind. Drop it all, like a hot potato. Once you do start getting insights, just let them sit there, don't doubt them. Let them silently work on you. Maybe you'll discover that you're undefinable. Maybe even that you're Infinite. Don't doubt it, but don't act on it, either. Just let it sit there and be.

A third gateway, that I love so greatly, is that of letting everything be just exactly as it is. Not so simple to do, until you get the hang of it. To explain this, I'd like to quote most of post #283 here:

All forms of meditation take everything away except you. They’re kind of like a scientific experiment, in that sense. However, meditation isn’t dry or mechanical, either.

You really will get more out of every time you meditate if you understand what meditation is about is:
just you watching you.

And when I say “you,” I mean you at your most natural. Just “pure” you. A state with no problems. The “I” behind the “me.”

There’s a strange and fascinating twist, though. Meditation, of any form, is designed in such a way that all the while you keep letting go of all memory of what you were looking at, even one second ago. You keep watching and forgetting. But the watching – the alertness – is vital. So, equally, is the letting go and instant forgetting. Any time you manage to do both of these together: “You’ve got it!” as Henry Higgins might say.

You’ll notice there’s something amazingly loose and easy about that forgetting. It really is in many ways the opposite of keeping yourself on a tight leash. OK, you do it while (probably) sitting quietly, and just paying attention. But inside of you, you completely let yourself run wild. At least, in whatever sense it’s possible to “run wild” when you’re every second dropping and forgetting all thought or emotion.

J. Krishnamurti said ultimately much the same thing in a different way. He said that true meditation does not rigidly follow a path, a discipline, or a method set down by others. Also, that it must not involve discipline, effort, or force. So, forget about trying to do it the “right” way. The more you’ve forgotten everything like that, during meditation, while still being very wide awake and present, the deeper you’ve gone.

Common mistakes

The biggest mistake I have seen in “experienced” meditators is that some of them become experienced in using “meditation” to make themselves duller. We have seen that in meditation one of the major instructions is to not hang on to any thoughts (or memories). But that doesn’t mean shutting down the flow of your natural life-energy and consciousness. Incidentally, your life-energy and consciousness are one and the same as your sexual energy and consciousness – except that in meditation they operate at a subtler and finer and gentler level. So your body doesn’t get sexually aroused. On the other hand, in meditation you do get more and more in contact with the energy and consciousness of genuine love and of gentleness and sensitivity.

The second biggest mistake is a fear or unwillingness to let go; a desire to control what’s going on. You simply drop that.

The other point I must make is that it’s important to make use of the benefits of meditation. Meditation is only useful to you to the extent that it makes you more intelligent, in the true sense of “intelligence.” Yes, it does greatly lessen the intensity of any pain or hurt or fear you have been aware of that day. But you also need to use the greater positivity you gain from meditation to face all the painful things – the things that press your buttons – head-on. That’s something that needs to be done outside of the meditation session. During an actual meditation session, the aim is to completely “switch off” from those painful things. To return to your origin, your source, that was there before the world ever was. No problems.

I should add, though, that there is a constant flow of (for these purposes) rubbish thoughts that doesn't stop. You kind of just learn to turn the volume down with regard to these, or even to ignore them fully.

One further point. If you want to become a professional tennis player, you need to practise, practise, and then practise. Where I’ve said above that discipline and effort aren’t relevant, please don’t jump to the conclusion that you can miss out on daily practice.

Watching the breath

Each form of meditation gives you some instruction to follow. Usually, that instruction is given to you with the understanding that it’s merely a boat to get you across “the river” of your pain-body’s resistance. And that once you get to the “other side of the river,” you don’t need the boat.

In meditation based on watching the breath, that “boat” is the action of watching your breath in a certain way, normally accompanied by something that’s a reminder to let go. To let go of everything, and just allow everything to be exactly as it is. In my experience, for many people watching the breath seems to be the quickest way to learn how to meditate. I have also found that when they learn this method, people don’t seem to veer off into spaces which they will then need to get through before they seem to reach the destination.

Some people learn how to do this form of meditation properly within days, and quite a few within weeks of daily practise. You know when you’ve started really reaching the right place with a vengeance when you start encountering intense joy or love. Soon after, you’ll find that in addition you’ll reach a space of very pleasant peace. You could call that “presence” if you like, because it’s so satisfying and fulfilling, it sure isn’t “nothing”. I guess it’s no-thing, i.e., it’s formless.

Watching the breath – the exercise

Find a quiet place where you won’t be disturbed. It should be indoors, or at least have walls on all sides around you.
Sit in a chair, or at least with your back straight and each arm resting on your upper legs. Very gently close your eyelids.
Pay attention to your breathing. Breathe from your abdomen.

Whenever your body starts to breathe in, silently say “Peace” (or: “Let it be”) to yourself. When it starts to breathe out – and not before --, silently say the same. As you do so, be aware of having the attitude that you’re ever so gently letting go of whatever thoughts come up in your mind.
Keep doing this until you no longer notice your mind silently “speaking” thoughts. At that point, stop saying “Peace” (or “Let it be”).

But if you start to notice any thoughts again, go back to saying “Peace” (or “Let it be”) with each inbreath and outbreath, until they disappear.

When you’re finished, give yourself SEVERAL MINUTES to come out of that trance-like state slowly. Begin by wiggling all your fingers and toes, with the eyes still shut.
When you are ready, open the eyes, but still keep wiggling. Gradually make your body movements bigger. Begin to move your wrists, then your lower arms, and your ankles, then lower legs. As you do, let your eyes and your intuition “register” everything around you, “feeling” its solidity almost as if you were touching it.
Without moving your behind, stretch your arms and legs, and swing them about a little. Finally, move your entire body about, including lifting your behind off the chair.

Warning: At first, don’t combine watching the breath with feeling the aliveness. Equally, it’s OK to practise feeling the aliveness outdoors, but not watching the breath. The reasons are “technical”. I’m certainly not the only practitioner who warns strictly against doing certain forms of meditation outdoors. Most types of traditional movement meditation, such as t’ai chi, qi gong, and hatha yoga are fine. So is feeling the aliveness, and being at one with Nature.

Other forms of meditation

The other forms of meditation generally substitute something else for watching the breath. This can be a mantra, for example (a word or phrase like “Om” or “peace”). In most cases, it is something that you keep repeating – until you get to a space where you stop paying so much attention to your thoughts. The great thing about the watching-the-breath meditation is as follows. Firstly, all the other forms of meditation also require you to keep “letting everything be exactly as it is,” or to keep letting go of thoughts and feelings. Secondly, we are already aware of our breathing all the time anyway. So, watching-the breath meditation is the form that requires the most minimal effort.
You’re doing meditation of any kind the ideal way once it starts being “one” with you, or kind of “taking you over.” For instance, if you are doing a movement form of meditation such as t’ai chi, it’s when the energy of the exercises seems to be moving you rather than you. Or when everything physically around you seems to be saying the mantra, if you are doing a mantra meditation. It feels like everything seems to be saying the mantra because you have entered a space of sufficient unity that for you, everything has become the same. And so on.

Creative visualization and affirmations

Some people use the word “meditation” to refer to 'creative' visualization – or other self-hypnosis, or self-reprogramming. This has superficial similarity to meditation. It supposedly can be used to lessen the power your ego has over you. I claim it does fail to actually remove any of the ego.

Remember

If you’re a beginner at meditation, it can take days or weeks or much, much longer before you start accessing any bliss or oneness, even one drop of these. But that’s not a reason to give up practicing every day. Personally, I don’t miss a day because almost every time I meditate I get to drink in some ecstatic pure love and peace. If you keep at it, those sorts of wonderful experiences do happen for many people.

And here's a link to post #1396 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=767722&viewfull=1#post767722)

And one to post#1296 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=753875&viewfull=1#post753875)

And please, doetem, do tell us what you do or don't experience. You're in good hands here. And please keep priming the pump, because it almost certainly won't happen overnight. That doesn't mean you give up after several weeks and walk away for twenty years before you"ll give it another try. Loving help is here for you , with us -- at least as far as words can help, and to some extent long-distance healing and help too. But it's up to you. You tell us. As I said, we love this stuff.

TraineeHuman

23rd August 2014, 23:38

In the midst of listening to the RS videos (still pondering the first 4) I am struck by a couple of concepts that hopefully might introduce relevant discussion on this thread. ...
I was deeply touched by his discussion on how healing and teaching were conveyed directly through astral transmission. ...(hopelessly devoted student here :o) This suggests grace could be given to another rather than having to be earned, which remains true today, yet seems our present state is one that leans very heavily towards initiation by fire so to speak. How does this concept apply to present day OBE possibilities?

My notion of "grace" may be different from yours, annacherie, as I'd like to explain now. But before I do, let me mention one way that we may have a similar notion. That is that most of reality lies beyond the capacity of thought. For instance, in twentieth century mathematics and logic, it's generally considered that the two most outstanding discoveries were regarding the complete undefinability of truth by "rational" means, and the absolute unprovability of most mathematical or logical propositions. The first of these is known as Alfred Tarski's undefinability theorem and the analysis that accompanied it. It proves that truth is completely undefinable by means of "rational" logic, and hence by "rational" thought generally. Of course, we also know other ways in which reality lies far beyond, and is far greater than, anything thought or thoughts can ever create, as J. Krishnamurti spent his career explaining. And in later nineteenth and then twentieth century philosophy, the notion of "the death of philosophy" -- coming initially from Kierkegaard and Nietzsche but eventually dominating all philosophy completely -- was also all about the discovery of how limited thought and its creations actually are.

Next, let's move to meditation, or similar practices. My understanding is that the Christian, Jewish and Muslim traditions used the term "grace" mostly to refer to the leap into formlessness, at least where meditation or contemplation was concerned. Once one is in formlessness, nothing which is a specific method, or any creation by thought, will take one higher.Well, that's apart from anything that's really a non-method or anti-method, such as letting go, or letting everything be as it is, and so on.

But it's not a matter of God out there giving you a Christmas present. Rather, it's your Higher Mind taking over and being fully present, at least temporarily -- instead of the "normal" you, for most individuals. But it's still you -- albeit a more true you -- that does the work.

It's also not clear to me if you appreciate how psychic healing works. Yes, you're right in saying that it primarily occurs OB, and then the physical effects are really just a kind of spin-off. Again, though, it's actually the client that does virtually all of the healing. All the healer does is get the client to connect truly and fully with their HM for a brief time.

Maybe you could give us some specific reference to which part(s) of the Steiner videos chocolate provided you were thinking of?

Another point I'd like to bring up is that we're all the time being showered with treasure beyond belief, but we don't see it. You could say that spiritual liberation is a matter of learning to see what's fully there, and to accept it. In other words, to gently destroy whatever in you is false. And opening up to Nature. This is yet another reason why true self-esteem is so important. You, and I, we all don't deserve all that rubbish our society tries to sell us. So we need to stop compromising at the deepest level. This brings us to to the notion of "transmission" by "grace", but I'll save that for another post soon.

thunder24

24th August 2014, 00:44

i was taught grace was unmerited favor... mayb i should look deeper

TraineeHuman

24th August 2014, 12:47

More regarding "grace". Yes, we may receive some extraordinary realizations or downloads from other individuals, who may or may not currently have bodies, and also from Nature. Or even just serendipitously we get the right advice, or synchronicity happening. In every case, I suggest all the other individuals will be doing will be facilitating our ability to see the glory of our own inner nature more clearly. We may not know that that's our own inner nature that's so glorious. We may have difficulty letting ourselves accepting that it might be -- which would only really be accepting ourselves.

As thunder24 has already worked out, I don't see "grace" as something that involves us being passive, for the most part. Even for the Higher Mind, the soul, to come through, it takes a certain level of surrender from us. A certain degree of "sacrfice" of the ego. That's often hard work. It can be tough. At first it's certainly a slow learning process, and we'll only do it partially.

What we gradually come to realize here is that something higher -- ultimately Source itself -- is actually sacrificing itself for our benefit. We also come to realize that this cuts both ways. That something higher, that's certainly "other" than our own limited personality and sub-personalities, is ultimately keeping us alive and is offering us a pure love that quite contradicts and totally forgives the tininess and the suffering-addicted nature of the ego. And we begin to surrender to it because it is the only means to our liberation and perfection. Well, most individuals recognize this in a very unconscious sort of way, and stay with their ego. Most of the creatures on the entire planet do this, but only in a limited way.

When you truly surrender to your HM, however, you gladly follow it with your whole being and your heart and body and will and mind. Maybe at first you just surrender to helping others, to brightening others' day, and so on, but that's really an intermediate stage to outright surrender to the All. Once you do make that plunge, you'll at last begin to feel truly fulfilled, and your heart will want to sing. However, your ego will fight back hard, because you will be dethroning it from control of your life. And it has many hooks into your dark side with which it can control you, and initially give you a rough time once you begin seriously outgrowing it.

annacherie, I assume you were considering a statement in the Steiner video 4 that chocolate referred to above. That was a staement about how if a student at the Egyptian mystery schools was ill, they would be permitted to sleep in the temple, and would (apparently) be cured of their illness in the morning. Well, I would say that I know that at certain locations it's much easier to contact positive beings, including ones capable of providing psychic healing. But as I said in my previous post, most of the healing work is really done by the healee, once the healer has reconnected them temporarily to their HM.

chocolate

24th August 2014, 18:43

edited by chocolate

TraineeHuman

25th August 2014, 01:03

Real meditation is a very holistic or total phenomenon. One should integrate it with one's life in such a way as to bring greater balance into one's life. Looking at chakras can be useful to a professional who's trying to assess someone's areas of weakness, but that's still secondary if the person is really in touch with and surrendered to their HM.

The beauty of "advanced" meditation, or of OB experience of formless planes, lies in the realization and maintenance of one's indefinability. If you're indefinable, not only are you whole to a certain degree but in many ways you can't be a victim. You're too undivided to be conquered. And there's no longer ultimately a target there, even though your indefinable consciousness does still of course work through and with a limited body and mind.

chocolate

25th August 2014, 05:22

edited by chocolate

jerry

25th August 2014, 20:47

TraineeHuman

26th August 2014, 13:49

Im fascinated by this Obe phenomenon, as when I was very young around 12, 13 years old I had an experience and for some reason or another I have never revisited the experience and am in pursuit of this as I know for myself its real. I never shared this with anyone and have become more and more intrigued. One of the main reason for becoming part of this community forum here .

Hi, Jerry. I had a spontaneous and unexpected astral travel experience at about the same age too. I went up to the ceiling, looked down at my body for some minutes and then eventually floated back down into it.

Adults find it harder to do so. This is simply because they are much more firmly attached to the world of concepts (thoughts), and particularly to their self-concept and the conceptual matrix that's society's version of "reality".

In my OP I thought I had made it at least moderately clear that OB experience is based (solely) on very much the same thing as meditation -- namely, on going beyond (above) all thought.

Alas, evidently not! Not at all! Nearly every member posting in this thread proceeded to assume that OB experience is achievable via manipulations of the (conceptual, ordinary) mind. Manipulations such as hypnotic "commands" to oneself, or "affirmations" to oneself. This amazed me. What could I do? I probably should have been more forthright and more emphatic in making it clear to them that it seemed they were simply using (ordinary) mind to try to go beyond (ordinary) mind. I was amazed that intelligent people could mislead themselves so badly. The trouble was, I suspected they would have dismissed me for being too emphatic, and for pushing "one point of view"! They just wouldn't believe me. After all, what would I know, when I can slip into OB states naturally and don't need any mind "method" at all (not that such a thing ever works).

One thing they did manage to do in most cases, despite their obstinate self-imposed huge handicap, was to remember some of their dreams in considerable detail. That was impressive, and constructive. Actually, since a few decades ago I have conducted one-to-one nonverbal psychotherapy of some kind with individuals, OB or telepathically, for part of the night, almost every night. And what I found was that I could somehow facilitate the above members' ability to remember some of their dreams. Which was interesting to me, because I live in Australia and there are time differences as far as when both they and I might be sleeping. I did feel led to take a small number of naps on certain occasions, but the weird thing is that I believe I managed to somehow "jump time" and experience some of their dreaming from the future relative to them, because my bedtime was later on than theirs. Or maybe they "time jumped" to me. Anyway, at least 70% of the time, if not 100%, I can remember somehow being in at least part of their dream as they then later described it in this thread. Usually I experienced their dream from quite a different angle than they did. But because I make myself available at night to help others of genuine intent with their development somewhat, and because in each case these members telepathically requested my help while they were sleeping -- I never butt in whatsoever except when and as far as requested --, I believe I somehow managed to facilitate their ability to remember their dreams, and even their taking over control of their dream and their altering it in some cases. As far as I'm concerned, such dreams are OB projection, and I don't really agree to drawing some fine conceptual-mind distinction between "astral projection" and "lucid dreaming" anyway.

But aside from that lucid dreaming, most of those members didn't seem to advance their OB skills radically beyond where they started from. Which to me just confirmed even more conclusively that the way to go is through becoming fluent at meditation first. That's how astral projection has traditionally been taught for many thousands of years, as far as I know.

First you become a meditator to beyond a beginner stage, which probably takes several months or more of intensive daily practice. You need to reach the stage where you consistently go beyond thought, i.e., higher than the conceptual/pictorial (and therefore also the emotional, and the physical) plane of reality. Once you're in the beyond-conceptual, you're in some level of what I call the Higher Mind, or the soul. To the ordinary mind, this seems like "nothing", simply because it's beyond its grasp.

But once you've learnt how to go there, beyond the world of concepts and forms, you have a new vantage point. That vantage point is the engine, so to speak, for all OB experience. It's the sine qua non, it's all you need, too.

Initially, if you try to "look" at what lies outside yourself from this higher vantage point, you'll probably find you see images of landscapes in the lower astral -- which looks almost the same as the physical, with the exception that you probably notice you seem to be flying (or I always did), and that whatever location you now focus on, you fly there at great speed. You won't necessarily be on the ground, either. You can be above or below too.

In a recent post I've mentioned that one way you'll be totally safe from all "nasty" beings or entities in the lower astral worlds is if you don't fantasize, or don't indulge your conceptual mind there at all. Which is exactly what basic meditation educates you to do, but not exactly overnight.

There are still traps, but not from "nasties". For instance, I spent several years astral or mental traveling --usually under special escort, mind you -- every night. That's why I know for a fact that every part of the solar system contains highly intelligent life at supra-physical levels. But one trap I fell into for about four full years after that was as follows. The lowest astral worlds are more intensely sensual than the physical world. Colors are much brighter, tastes are more intense and varied. I had learnt how to detach from the physical desires which tend to weigh one down greatly and stop one from going to the supra-conceptual planes. But I hadn't shaken off some conditioning that told me I was supposed to find fulfillment through the ideal romantic relationship. Also, I believe I had had very little past (lifetimes) experience of any physical world. So something inside me suggested I was missing out, I wasn't getting my money's worth for my ticket of being born in this physical world. So it was that for four years I would feel the pull of sensual desires, in the magnified form they take in the lower astral, yet at the same time somehow I strongly felt or knew that this was all futile and misguided. Very frustrating, but I eventually moved beyond that.

Do you have any questions, Jerry?

Jake

26th August 2014, 14:36

Jerry, TH has an amazing mind, and it shows. Be advised that this phenomenon is NOT a one size fitz all scenario. Many of the direct methods used by many projectors, work brilliantly. :) Albeit, stepping stones to a bigger way of thinking about it... I, for one, would not attempt to teach an infant to run in a marathon until, of course, the infant had learned to crawl, then to walk. But then, I have taken to TH, so I will not attempt to take away too much from what is being delivered here,, except to point out a message in TH's signature,,,, It goes to the heart and soul of why one should be critical of information that you have not come across yourself, personally,, from experience.. "There is NO teaching,,, only LEARNING."

My OBE experiences have been mostly spontaneous. There are gifts in the messages of Robert Monroe, Robert Bruce, William Buhlman, etc... None of these modalities quite match up,, yet they have all proven to be gifted explorers/pioneers...

Most advanced projectors will focus on the experience rather than the implications to consciousness. TH has gone waaayyyy past that,, and his information is invaluable. Just take it all in stride, as you may (ha! May?) experience different aspects to this phenomenon that TH and I have never even imagined... Yep, it is like that!!!

To foreshadow your own experience onto others, especially in the early days of OBE exploration,, can be quite the pitfall... I try and not do that to people as it can augment the natural experience of it... The nature of OBE required a lot of trial and error, it is a personal learning experience that WILL be different for everyone...

Open your mind to the experience and 'let' it happen.. I've never come across a 'technique' or 'modality' that works every time. TH is correct is his assessment of these things becoming un-necessary and distracting,,, but they may work from time to time. Once you can get out of your body (in the traditional 3d sense) your instincts will guide you to whatever 'exit' approach will work best for you.

I read over this thread. It is advanced reading. IMHO... TH has skipped right past 'baby-steps' and on into some pretty sophisticated conscious application of thought. TH shines like a star, either way!!! :)

The OBE will teach you all that you need to know. Take it slow, breath. Learn to meditate and quiet your mind. There are as many different 'concepts of detatchment' as their are people to realize it.. :)

And please keep us updated... This may be my only advice to you, in this thread,,, as TH can get grumpy with me chiming in too often... :(

Love to you, and never doubt your natural ability to project.
Jake.

annacherie

29th August 2014, 13:08

"Yes, for instance, the ordinary mind is quite unable to realize whatever high ideals it may aspire to. It's far too lost in compromises, and deductions, and opposite extremes, in divisions, in a will that's always either divided or compulsively obsessed, and even just plain ineptness. What's genuinely logical is to put first things first -- to quote the late Barry Long. Whenever you're doing that, you're using the Higher Mind."

a personal dilemma - that of developing the strength of my convictions. I would say convictions are largely hypocritical except to the extent that they are a description of the sum total of your actions.

Is it an erroneous subconscious belief that forces of the will must evolve through the taking of risks....the leaps of faith (that our intuition constantly asks) that will provide the personal discipline desirable for balanced navigation through the astral realms? (At 57 risks are more daunting than they were at younger ages)
There is such a thing as Higher Will, but it's part of the Higher Mind (the soul), and one has to go inward and eventually bring that into one before it will work for one. On the other hand, if you're aware that your intuition is constantly asking you to do things, then that means you have already brought in your Higher Mind, and your intuition will already be gently telling you what to do, rather than asking you, and you'll already have the Higher Will.

or, can one engage the HM simply through intent, retreat into stillness, asceticism etc.
That's certainly necessary too. And yes, the Higher Will operates softly, through intent.

Do the cycles govern time in such a way that the internal impulses will organically give rise to the strengthening of the will also as humanity collectively moves? You do need to use your Higher Will, but what most people mean by "will power" is usually a matter of using their ego-dominated ordinary mind to try to control itself a little. Intent is gentler and subtler. It's a matter of not giving the ego's urges your support.

Carmody writes "Clarity only begins to come when the last thing to cling to - is gone. When the ability to cling, even at the most subtle and unconscious levels, is gone. One cannot think it, one cannot out-think it, one cannot game it, or play with it. It cannot be fooled, it is a real thing. Hovering on the border of dissolution, in the most base of all that represents one's given capacity to perceive and be, is where it is. When the deepest formational directive to emote in the production, emanation and relation of self is finally gone (is released and relaxed) -then it finally begins to emerge" . This perspective compels me to wonder about the relationship between our ability to see (is this not heavily determined by the position of the planets?) and our will...sort of like seeing with our hands- or feeling through our olfactory system etc.
Carmody beautifully describes what's involved in true ego death, which is the same as (the first stage of) permanent descension of the Higher Mind so that it's permanently present in such a way that you're continually conscious of that freedom, and at a certain stage one needs to pass through that, when one is ready. By "ego death" I don't mean that your ego dissolves away at this point, but simply that you now deeply know that you are something beyond subject/object, and the ego isn't truly you, and you are something much greater, and the ego, though still mostly there (but now slowly burning away, over a very,very long period), just isn't worthy of you.

Dear Trainee Human <3

lI've thought about you and your responses daily and it t has taken some time ,reading, rereading ...and meditating on our conversation to bring me to this ponderance. My experience of taking risks (prompted by intuition) has not always yielded the hoped for transformation - lurking subsurface only to return were the shadows born of being human....emotions of jealousy, insecurity, but most of all a sense of being alone would return to remind me that t he momentary leap of faith wouldn't always yield the freedom yearned for. The "risks" that are actually organically motivated,( even tho people like to think and profess otherwise as their infinite wisdom is hindsight) seem to accompany with them the "breakthroughs" that seem a result of a wheel turning! When contemplating the really big cycles--the movement in our heavens, I am reminded of Einsteins' premise that either everything is a miracle or nothing is--no inbetween....it just seems that the only real "control" I have is to release. Having said that time does yield to repetition ...slowly but do we truly have free will? A very dear friend told me once to do what is within me (or that which is in-spir-ational) . This guidance has helped me to live in present moment.
I am so glad to have found you and thank Bill Ryan and the forum for making our meeting possible. Trainee Human (and Carmody and chocolate, Jake, Wind and all those contributing to this conversation) you inspire (!) new discourse in my realm and I soo love the teachers in my life.
Much love to you all - annacherie :wave:

Joe Akulis

29th August 2014, 15:35

*sigh* I love this thread. :-) Can't stay away for very long.

I haven't really been in the kind of mode this summer where I have been able to dedicate myself to much inner exploration, and I hope what I call "patience" with it is not an ego-satisfying way of saying I'm just lazy, but it probably is. Heh heh.

Anyway, I wanted to drop in and say thanks again for making yourself available to us here, TH. I am truly humbled to have made your acquaintance.

Some interesting tidbits I thought I would pass along, as I'm not quite sure what to make of them. I've had a couple dreams lately where it felt like I was getting involved with people and possibly trying to help them. In one case I was visiting my sister, who has some serious problems with paranoia that are really affecting her life. It's been my suspicion for a while now that she has another entity sort of latched onto her. Possibly a personality from a previous lifetime of hers, or perhaps just an earthbound spirit that has found a weak bond to exploit with her.

In one of my dreams it felt like I had paid my sister a visit and was trying to help shoo this entity away, sorta like "go on, scram". But perhaps not quite as tactless as that makes it sound. :- )

I also had one the other day where in my dream I was visiting a friend and saw that she had an "attachment" problem where her father was negatively affecting her and I was doing the same thing, kindof spiritually stepping in a protective role and saying scram.

I've been wondering if I should be looking at these dreams as more of an inner work of my own, as if to say that I have been personally working out my anxiety about my sister. Perhaps a message to myself that what she's going through is part of a contract and I shouldn't let it get me down? I'm not sure.

It definitely doesn't explain the second dream though, because in that one it was all spontaneous. I had no notion that this person was troubled in any way, so I don't think I could qualify this second dream the same way, as being some kind of inner work I was carrying out on myself. I guess for now, I'm thinking it could be Dreams-Gone-Wild, and leave it at that, in order to keep my ego quiet. Or if indeed I was attempting to help people, I hope I wasn't causing more harm than help.

Anyway, just checking in to pass along my love to everyone on this thread, and echo some recent sentiments: Spiritual growth is inevitable. We can pursue it and cut down the amount of experience it takes to make each stride, or we can let nature bring us to that growth while we entertain some of the coolest distractions we can find along the way. If your course matched mine, and your exercises in the pursuit of that growth mirrored mine or anyone else's, then we are duplicating effort. The point of this universe and every other universe is: It's here for us to check out and explore in every way imaginable. If we all came back to source with the same stories, it would be a little bit disappointing, wouldn't it? :-)

Joe

annacherie

31st August 2014, 12:35

Some interesting tidbits I thought I would pass along, as I'm not quite sure what to make of them. I've had a couple dreams lately where it felt like I was getting involved with people and possibly trying to help them. In one case I was visiting my sister, who has some serious problems with paranoia that are really affecting her life. It's been my suspicion for a while now that she has another entity sort of latched onto her. Possibly a personality from a previous lifetime of hers, or perhaps just an earthbound spirit that has found a weak bond to exploit with her.

In one of my dreams it felt like I had paid my sister a visit and was trying to help shoo this entity away, sorta like "go on, scram". But perhaps not quite as tactless as that makes it sound. :- )

I also had one the other day where in my dream I was visiting a friend and saw that she had an "attachment" problem where her father was negatively affecting her and I was doing the same thing, kindof spiritually stepping in a protective role and saying scram.

I've been wondering if I should be looking at these dreams as more of an inner work of my own, as if to say that I have been personally working out my anxiety about my sister. Perhaps a message to myself that what she's going through is part of a contract and I shouldn't let it get me down? I'm not sure.

It definitely doesn't explain the second dream though, because in that one it was all spontaneous. I had no notion that this person was troubled in any way, so I don't think I could qualify this second dream the same way, as being some kind of inner work I was carrying out on myself. I guess for now, I'm thinking it could be Dreams-Gone-Wild, and leave it at that, in order to keep my ego quiet. Or if indeed I was attempting to help people, I hope I wasn't causing more harm than help.

Anyway, just checking in to pass along my love to everyone on this thread, and echo some recent sentiments: Spiritual growth is inevitable. We can pursue it and cut down the amount of experience it takes to make each stride, or we can let nature bring us to that growth while we entertain some of the coolest distractions we can find along the way. If your course matched mine, and your exercises in the pursuit of that growth mirrored mine or anyone else's, then we are duplicating effort. The point of this universe and every other universe is: It's here for us to check out and explore in every way imaginable. If we all came back to source with the same stories, it would be a little bit disappointing, wouldn't it? :-)

Joe

Heh heh :) Hi Joe _ Yes indeed!! Rationalizing any (and every) thing certainly gets crazy:fish: :confused::twitch: in a world where discernment is a necessary skill and at the same time judgement prejudices and limits reality - Having just served on jury duty and watching my kids struggle it seems this is an issue I need to really explore and like you say the answers all vary -and thank the Great Mystery for being mysterious! At least there is solace to be found in the knowing its all grist for the mill. This conversation asks me to sink deeply into my heart. annacherie

aranuk

6th September 2014, 19:05

doetem

10th September 2014, 08:20

Thissd is very remarkable!

chocolate

19th September 2014, 18:24

I have to stop here and say a few words that many may not quite place, but in any case.

Some say one's greatest teachers are not one's friends, but one's enemies, or those who appear as such.
I have had my great moments reading this thread, and I will be *forever* grateful to TH for them.

There are, and will be, many more threads about OBEs, and as many opinions as there are people who can participate in them. But this is and will be the closest to what I can call my preferred thread on the subject.
I may have reacted here 'in a way', and with TH we are aware when and why it happened, but I am also human and can make sometimes a bit too fast moves without considering the other side of the story.

I hope those who really need to understand the process, will spend the time reading here. Because that is not just 'lay in your bed-get the vibes-concentrate-and off you go' type of a thing. It is probably one of the most fundamental abilities that we (still have), but not all of us do it consciously, and many have lost the awareness of being in it.

And above all, friends and foes are 'All God', as Ram Dass sometimes points out in our silent conversations. ( via FB :) )

I consider TraineeHuman a friend, as are all other members who I have 'met' here.

chocolate

20th September 2014, 20:29

TraineeHuman

21st September 2014, 06:51

In happiness, it is the physical and emotional elementals that feel complete. When a person's consciousness enters the analytical mind, he loses the sense of a feeling of completeness because he begins to see how much there is yet to satisfy his urges, drives, and desires. He then loses a part of his happiness.

Joy begins when a person's consciousness penetrates into the higher mind. The higher mind sees things in holistic concepts and gradually impresses the physical and astral bodies with the feeling of completeness -- because every bit, every experience of happiness, every want or desire already exists within them. They can enjoy all the happiness of the world by eating one apple, or all the happiness of joy of sex and friendship with one partner. Thus, the higher mind not only restores happiness to the lower bodies but also makes a person realize joy.

The state of bliss develops slowly when the consciousness makes a breakthrough into the Intuitional Plane, where feelings of completeness begin in all-inclusiveness. The flow of bliss continually feeds a person's joy and happiness, supplying him with psychic energy.
(Happiness, Joy & Bliss, p. 275)
Torkom Saraydarian

An amazingly concise summary of how the Higher Mind or soul interacts with the lower planes of ourselves -- the physical, emotional, and ordinary mental. Thank you very much, chocolate.

For about two weeks I have been away because I developed a serious health problem probably because of emotional stress. (Well, I am 64.) Some individuals never recover from that particular problem, which causes huge and often persisting physical discomfort. Right now I may have come close to healing it away, or at least to holding it at bay. But I've found it far, far easier to bear that acute physical discomfort, and my body-consciousness's accompanying fear of it, by remaining in touch with that higher "lightness" and joy somewhat.

chocolate

21st September 2014, 07:49

Well, that post made all the difference in the world for me. So, I guess I can afford one offtopic:
:hug: :dirol:

TraineeHuman

24th September 2014, 15:00

Dear Trainee Human <3

lI've thought about you and your responses daily and it t has taken some time ,reading, rereading ...and meditating on our conversation to bring me to this ponderance. My experience of taking risks (prompted by intuition) has not always yielded the hoped for transformation - lurking subsurface only to return were the shadows born of being human....emotions of jealousy, insecurity, but most of all a sense of being alone would return to remind me that t he momentary leap of faith wouldn't always yield the freedom yearned for. The "risks" that are actually organically motivated,( even tho people like to think and profess otherwise as their infinite wisdom is hindsight) seem to accompany with them the "breakthroughs" that seem a result of a wheel turning! When contemplating the really big cycles--the movement in our heavens, I am reminded of Einsteins' premise that either everything is a miracle or nothing is--no inbetween....it just seems that the only real "control" I have is to release. Having said that time does yield to repetition ...slowly but do we truly have free will? A very dear friend told me once to do what is within me (or that which is in-spir-ational) . This guidance has helped me to live in present moment.

annacherie, the way to get the negative emotions like fear, anger, hatred, resentment, impatience and so on to diminish more and more is through meditation. It's a very, very lonnnng process. I can talk about it in a sentence or two, but the lived experience is ever so much more gradual than such words might suggest to the mind.

But if you persist in intensive daily meditation, or something equivalent, I can assure you that you will pass through -- or, to use the traditional term from long before all the talk of humankind's "Ascension" -- ascend through, various stages. I believe I can tell you pretty much just what those stages are. I believe your quandary is mainly about ascending fully beyond what I would see as the lowest stage. The lowest stage is one where the body-consciousness's feelings and desires reign supreme. Believe me, meditation will take you mostly beyond that eventually. In my careers in the corporate world one of my biggest problems would be that others would suppose I was an easy target to exploit, simply because they could observe that I clearly wasn't governed by desires and the pressure of all the time serving my own physical survival. I also had to learn not to smile fully in any business situation, because again, that would make me look too generous and too tolerant, and mean individuals would jump to the conclusion that they could get away with murder.

In the second stage one moves into eventually having your life dominated by higher aspirations and ideals and interests and experiences. Believe me, although there's no longer a preoccupation with your own survival there, you automatically tend to survive very well, because of all the value you create. As I've said recently in another thread, fear (and for that matter the other negative emotions) are confined to your animal part, to your body-consciousness, and the aim is to realize that you are something much greater than a physical, animal body.

The third stage, beyond that, is one that operates by what we might call "blind grace", or "blind trust in God". You seem to be at least touching this stage at times also, from your comments. But at that point you plunge without any fear or hesitation or inhibition into the ocean of freedom, and even, after a while, of the Infinite, ultimately. That's something greater than any standards of behavior, however universal or archetypal such may be. It's an impersonal space in various ways, and one where you acquire great flexibility but you also surrender at least somewhat to the Divine, where there are no fixed structures any more but it's continually formless and changing and divinely crazy.

I could write pages about this, but those are the stages in a nutshell.

I don't know if I've zeroed in enough on what you'd like some friendly advice/ideas about. So please say so if you'd like further discussion or clarification or points of view to consider.

TraineeHuman

25th September 2014, 06:19

annacherie, here are some further thoughts on this huge subject. In very broad terms, one of the things everyone needs to do (when they're ready, and serious about personal liberation) is reconnect with their intuition, and then to connect more and more with it. In this Forum members share words often with the aim of reaching or engaging with spiritual truth primarily through intellectual/conceptual reflection and speculation. But that's not the royal road. Rather, it's a matter of taking inner action, taking the plunge, the leap with (seemingly) no safety net.

Nor is the best way one based on working through the emotional being -- refining, and getting closure, with regard to negative emotions and interpretations -- and also working that through use of the will. Even though that is how much of Western psychotherapy (including the pop alternative kind) and also the Tantric tradition work. Certainly, the end goal of both this type of approach and also of the intellectual inquiry one is that in the end you get insights, which in fact are always purely intuitive insights. All insight whatsoever is part of the operation of the intuition, actually, may I suggest. Insight is the way. The beautiful way.

It's also not a matter of just raising one's consciousness into some higher world -- some heaven -- and escapistically living totally from there but rejecting the world of the mud. That's true even though in such a heaven you would indeed be operating much more fully from intuition.

Instead, it's a way of transformation, and using your ever more and more developed intuition to as far as you can "spiritualize" or uplift, and in that sense change the world immediately around you. A big part of that process is to more and more identify the ignorance in yourself. Which you're doing, so congratulations. That ignorance is opposed to your transformation -- as you've said. I would say much of the overcoming of that ignorance -- the fear, the impatience, and so on -- happens through identifying and facing it, as you are doing. Plus through eternal vigilance, watching of yourself, and doing so with the fullest honesty you can bring at the time. That self-watching is an action, even though it's inner. And it's always quietly creating change for the better. It's an inner action. We usually don't realize that such inner change is occuring, because we tend to wrongly suppose that who we are remains the constant unchanging point in a chaotic world. But not so. We change for the better even though we usually don't notice it.

Finally for now, in general the best way I know to reconnect with your intuition is meditation -- which can also mean fun things like qi gong or t'ai chi or dervish whirling or chanting. The intuition initially and for some time "speaks" very softly, it seems, but that's only because you haven't been "listening" much before now. I don't usually hear it as a voice of some kind, but some people apparently do. To me it's more like an urge or a non-physical, non-emotional feeling or sensing. It's very, very gentle, and vulnerable. But in great subtlety there's great strength. In this way you eventually come to see it as a mighty Force.

TraineeHuman

26th September 2014, 10:15

This is a post about kundalini. Recently I have exchanged PMs and other energies with a number of different members regarding what I have been experiencing. It has been truly wonderful for me to discover what a deeply caring and diverse "family" it turns out I am a part of here. I have been through a little journey which has been quite eventful.

In a nutshell, it seems clear now that what I have been going through for almost three weeks now is some kind of continuous experience of raised kundalini. In the first two weeks it was scary because one of the things I was experiencing daily was some chest pain that was pretty close to a threat of possible heart attack. By now I've been checked out by cardiologists and they say my heart is fine, and that my chest pain is coming from to them quite unkown causes but certainly not from any problem with my heart, at all. In fact, my physical symptoms have been off the charts weird and outside the box to all the medical professionals I have consulted.

It's also been physically very uncomfortable. The biggest discomfort has been when I've tried to get to sleep. Every night except last night, it's taken me between half an hour to two plus hours just to get to sleep. That's been because I've felt a physical thumping inside me as if my arteries were a little blocked or at any rate as if my blood pressure were extremely high (which in reality it isn't). The thumping has often been in my legs some of that time, certainly in my side, often in my chest, often in my belly, sometimes my back, and so on. I sent a PM to Ray aka Finefeather recently, who has significant experience of prolonged kundalini, and my intuition tells me that somehow he or his connections assisted me to get to sleep very, very smoothly last night. During the day, I'm still feeling, among other thumpings, a pounding in my calves or my legs generally, maybe 50% of the time, and that's not physically comfortable. I guess I'm slowly teaching myself not to mind that discomfort. Now that I know the daily very brief twinge or two of pain in the center of my chest is very unlikely to be connected to potential heart attack or heart disease, that makes things easier too -- especially if I'm woken up by such a passing twinge. Also, for two days or more I was feeling something uncomfortable in my head, but most of that has now cleared and I'm now getting an extraordinary alertness in my brain and everything everywhere seems to be almost literally glowing ultra-bright with aliveness, with life-force. I seem to actually see greater light everywhere. So my concerns about possible stroke or mini-stroke are also quite diminished at present.

Why am I telling you all this? Partly for the benefit of anyone else who in the future finds themselves going through a prolonged kundalini experience. It's a natural part of spiritual growth eventually, and apparently happens to everyone, at least in some lifetime anyway. But as I say, it's been beautiful how so many members have expressed such caring to me, each in their own very unique way.

An experience like this seems to get triggered only if you have been through absolute hell beforehand. It happened that I was experiencing stress coming from many different sources all at once before this experience got triggered. By the way, it started after a big ball of energy came hurtling up my spine, kind of smashing against the bottom of my skull at the neckline and then going through the middle of my brain to the top of my head. Right now, I'm congratulating myself for having made lemonade out of the lemons. Because a prolonged kundalini experience is supposed to bring a transformation for the better. Well, we'll see.

I did experience a kundalini experience that lasted over two weeks straight, back in 2001. At the time I had a teacher who was a master of kundalini, and she made most of it very smooth sailing -- after the initial hell before the experience itself. She said I was experiencing it prematurely, and she kind of worked to shut it down gently because of the prematurity. I can't prove this to you, but I happen to know, with as great a certainty as I know anything, that she was a reincarnation of the famous Oracle at Delphi, the one who advised Alexander the Great and so on. A might weird person, but possessing an extraordinary depth of spiritual wisdom. The Oracle at Delphi had the slogan "Know Thyself", and man, did she live that with every fibre of her being, and so obsessively. I once spent a weekend during summer at her seaside home, and it was so deadly intense even when she was relaxing at home. I also had a special relationship with her because she often looked to me as a kind of "judge" of how she was doing as a spiritual teacher, apparently. Also because she eventually worked out that I was a guardian angel on "vacation", so then she became preocuppied with communicating with everyone's g.a.s and exploring the higher dimensions that the g.a.s come from, plus how they interact with the healing angels (from lower dimensions).

Earlier in this thread, Deneon was talking about some kundalini phenomena he was experiencing. Although I don't believe he was experiencing something as intense as what I'm currently going through, I do now understand more of the significance of some things he was experiencing. Let me explain first that there is a certain phenomenon any psychic healer often experiences when they work a little with someone else who is a natural psychic healer but doesn't know it. This is that the latter person experiences a kind of "jump start" of their heart that may raise their blood pressure for a very brief period, and at any rate may cause them concern, even though the anecdotal "evidence" is that it doesn't seem to cause harm to their heart. Rather, it seems to be something like this. The latter person, being a natural healer, is able to operate at a higher "frequency" in some sense, as psychic healers do. But because the heart has a very strong energy field of its own, it initially resists when that individual's overall energy field kind of jumps or resonates to a higher frequency. Or something along those lines.

chocolate

26th September 2014, 14:49

You are not alone in this TraineeHuman. <3
And, I guess, this applies to anyone else.

TraineeHuman

27th September 2014, 06:36

Here's the latest development in my kundalini adventure. Ray (Finefeather) kindly explained to me that any uncomfortable symptoms will probably be due, in some way, to kundalini energy not all managing to flow through to the crown chakra, at the top of the head. The discomfort apparently gets caused by energy stuck lower down, where presumably it can't get converted from energy into higher consciousness. Maybe it causes grief because it has something like too high a "voltage" or too fine a "frequency" for the lower chakras and structures to deal with effectively.

Anyone out there who was reading this thread around February or March 2013 will remember that at the time I was explaining in detail that in what I consider all the truest or the complete meditation traditions, one is first taught to concentrate on and open up and develop the heart center, then later the third eye / pineal center, then eventually the oversoul chakra above the head. (And later on, when one is descending the energy after having learnt to ascend it, one may also to some degree concentrate on these centers in a reverse direction, and also the other chakras then too.) Well, since years ago I'm quite able to concentrate on my oversoul chakra (and the link to it from my crown chakra, which feels like a crown of roughly concentric rings of energy at the top of the head). Simply by one's concentrating on that strongly, any -- or some -- stuck energy in the body will tend to flow up and then out and be transformed. That's oversimplifying a little, though, because equally important is a holistic sense at all times of one's total energy field. Without that, any focus on chakras is a trap -- or that's what my former teacher who had been the original Delphic Oracle would always be quick to emphasize.

And such concentrating on the area above my head is what I've been doing a small amount of for the last half-day. The result so far is that the thumping/pounding sensation is now significantly milder, certainly 50% or less of what it had been up till now. Also, I'm now continually feeling very energized in a stable or calm way, so there's now something physical there that's positive to counterbalance what physical discomfort remains at the moment.

I used to observe how the teacher I've mentioned used to work with the kundalini in people. She was very interested in brief raisings of the kundalini, up the body to somewhere above the head. She was able to induce a spontaneous such experience in 5% to 10% of strangers the first time they met her as part of a New Age audience. I then noticed that I could do the same -- probably because I had "osmosed" the skill from her. I also used to attend classes she held, and for most of the attendees she clearly considered that the most transformational experiences in their entire lives were the brief (about five to fifteen minute long) kundalini experiences they had had, often without realizing it but also several occurring with her (or with me). Typically, these individuals mostly had between ten and twenty such brief kundalini experiences in their lifetimes so far, and most of them were aged forty plus.

When I observed such a kundalini experience, I would mostly be watching a roundish ball or cloud of energy four inches to two feet wide that was a very, very pale grey, and that would initially form and linger several feet below the person's feet for about five minutes. Then it would move very slowly to somewhere around the person's feet and then stay put for at least several minutes. Eventually it would start moving up the body, but would seem to get very stuck at least once in that journey, but still with what seemed like a much greater lightness and less inertia than when it had been below or near the feet. Eventually it would pass beyond the top of the person's head and the person would have a big psychological breakthrough and that would be that. Well, not quite, because the person's own guardian angels would be very busy adjusting and healing what looked like energies in or connected to the person's head mostly. Plus, they would have a whole medical team of healing-angel medical specialists and doctors and nurses there, who would spend at least five minutes and usually at least ten minutes afterwards feverishly doing psychic surgery and other psychic medical procedures of some kinds on the person, in the astral.

One thing I discovered when observing individuals going through such brief kundalini experiences was that I could do something to facilitate their getting the movement of the kundalini ball of energy up their body unstuck. I should mention, though, that I had in the past spent at least thousands of hours intensively training in how to nonverbally work with energy in certain advanced ways, and at least hundreds of hours in being directly trained through non-stop nonverbal feedback from advanced (living) masters, from a number of different modalities or approaches. And that's all after having in the past released various abilities via going through experiences of enlightenment. Basically, the way I facilitate another's kundalini is by virtually ceasing to exist in the world of forms -- or that's how I like to see it. Plus, I become "one with" them temporarily, not interfering with them in any way but simply making my skills or energies temporarily available for them to use as they see fit. I don't know whether this skill is helping me now to move what's left of that kundalini energy up and out of my own body more quickly, or if it's just a matter of my concentrating on my crown chakra or oversoul chakra.

chocolate

28th September 2014, 18:32

TH, I have a question. I was doing a practise described in the book by R.S. Knowledge of the Higher Worlds.
http://wn.rsarchive.org/Books/GA010/English/AP1947/GA010_c02.html

"To begin with, the attention of the soul is directed to certain events in the world that surrounds us. Such events are, on the one hand, life that is budding, growing, and flourishing, and on the other hand, all phenomena connected with fading, decaying, and withering. The student can observe these events simultaneously, wherever he turns his eyes and on every occasion they naturally evoke in him feelings and thoughts; but in ordinary circumstances he does not devote himself sufficiently to them. He hurries on too quickly from impression to impression. It is necessary, therefore, that he should fix his attention intently and consciously upon these phenomena. Wherever he observes a definite kind of blooming and flourishing, he must banish everything else from his soul, and entirely surrender himself, for a short time, to this one impression. He will soon convince himself that a feeling which heretofore in a similar case, would merely have flitted through his soul, now swells out and assumes a powerful and energetic form. He must now allow this feeling to reverberate quietly within himself while keeping inwardly quite still. He must cut himself off from the outer world, and simply and solely follow what his soul tells him of this blossoming and flourishing."

The first time I tried I had definite feelings forming, but not in the mind, or even in my head space, it was in my heart. Both when observing a blossoming life ( a rose I am growing ), and a decaying life ( a rosebud that had been fallen dry together with yellowing leaves ).
Is this something that is specific to me, or is it like that with most people? Or at least if you try, how does it feel?
I am trying to figure out my own ways of non-material 'perception', that is why I am asking for an opinion.

TraineeHuman

29th September 2014, 01:34

Yes, at first it's much easier to use one's heart center (the physical heart center and also the astral heart center) to receive or understand what the Higher Mind is communicating. I've made a number of posts trying to explain, though, that eventually one learns -- hopefully! -- to receive those communications more completely and powerfully through the oversoul area, and, prior to being able to do that fluently, through the inner eye or pineal center better than through the heart center.

When people say things like "listen to your heart" or talk about "heart math", they really mean listen to your intuition -- and let's hope the person involved manages to fully separate intuition received via the heart center from the ego's trademark dramatizing emotionality and ultimately phoney "passion".

The pineal center has much to do with mental/emotional independence and breaking beyond conformity, and with creativity and originality. The oversoul center has to do with enlightenment (and greater bliss and peace and divine love) and universality and Infinity, but also with Consciousness or Spirit as a contrast to Matter.

If you go to the top of any page in this thread and click on Search Thread, then type the word heart into the space, and then click on Search, that will bring up all the posts with the word "heart" in them. In about half of these, I provided information that responds to your current question, chocolate. Alternatively, you can look at most of my posts between 28th October 2013 and 7th November 2013 (pages 64 and 65), though I've also discussed this topic in some earlier posts too.

Lately I've seen a demonstration of how the Higher Mind worked to alert me of a serious physical problem. As I've said, I believe I've undergone, and am still delightfully basking in, a prolonged kundalini release. But the beginning of it was very physically uncomfortable indeed for two weeks, because the Higher "energy" managed to make me perceive -- physically feel, in this case -- my physical problem in a greatly magnified form, as a timely warning. It's unusual and atypical, at the beginning of a prolonged kundalini experience, to feel a pounding in one's arteries in the legs. The only reason I felt that now seems to be that those arteries were getting slightly blocked, or crowded at any rate, by fungi and parasites. Once I became aware of the pounding, it had served its purpose of alerting me through creating discomfort. But the only fully effective way I have found I had to remove the discomforting side of the energies has been to send the discomfort energy into my oversoul area and thence out. I even suspect my chest pains, which have now gone, would have been caused by some of the discomfort energy getting stuck at my (3D or 4D) heart center -- and the heart is basically an amplifier, energetically speaking.

TraineeHuman

30th September 2014, 13:20

TraineeHuman

1st October 2014, 12:46

The Higher Mind or soul is invisible to most people in our society, or certainly seems invisible to them. On the other hand, the truth is it's a very great "energy" or "force" or "intelligence" -- quite apart from being who we actually are, at a truer level of reality. Isn't that the ultimate "conspiracy"? That who you more truly are masquerades as something non-existent, or at least invisible! What a slap in the face to who you truly are. What a castration (or the female equivalent of castration).

This is a paradox, a dilemma. The only way to begin to resolve it seems to be for us to clearly observe that the HM does produce palpable results in our lives after all, and in a big way -- both inwardly and outwardly. If it didn't do so, what would be the point of even talking about it? But how to observe it properly? That's the question.

Well, one point where a person might begin is the Eckhart Tolle video that's in a current Spirituality thread. Most of the time in that video, Tolle is talking about simply being present, such as when one sits idly on a bench in a beautiful park. This is useful in two different ways, from my point of view. Firstly, whenever you do practice such presence, however laid back you may be you're in fact still temporarily bringing your HM down and into your physical body and location at that time. So, notice any way that this feels different from "normal". Notice as deeply as you can, without any straining -- because that would erode your presence. Also, as you get more absorbed in the pseudo-lazy ease of this experience at an inner level, you naturally start to disconnect at least a little from your physical senses. This means that you directly get to experience a mostly non-physical reality that's inside you, and therefore must be you, or a true part of you.

Secondly, notice that while you're idling away in presence as you sit on a park bench, the negative emotions of the ego and of the body-consciousness just quietly get left behind for now. So, we have at least one simple tool for gently but totally mastering our negative emotions and desire. In addition, we have a way of extending some of the features of what we experience during meditation to a part of our ordinary life outside of meditation -- even if it's only the presence-idling part.

To develop our awareness of the HM further than this, we need to work a little, rather than just idling away. We need to develop some of our "mind" powers and abilities, or else notice that they have gotten developed on their own steam while we were meditating over a long period, and we just didn't notice that we've become lions rather than kittens.

We need to eventually get to the point where we can deliberately steer the mighty wheel that controls what our HM does, and to call our HM in as we call in our intuition or our pure intention. Until that point, we have to rely partly on faith in its existence or at least in its power. But also, we need to watch ourselves and keep observing how whenever the HM comes in there are direct results. We also need to learn to respect the greatness of our HM. It's not unlike the way a fundamentalist Christian respects and has a personal relationship with "God" -- except in this case we happen to know, or have faith, that "God" is actually the truest and most central part of us.

TraineeHuman

3rd October 2014, 01:37

I'd like to say some more things about the role of the heart in the spiritual life. I've recently reaffirmed that at first one "hears" the Higher Mind most easily through the heart center. Actually, though, I would say it's desirable to work on the heart and the will and the mind all in combination -- and therefore as soon as possible to open up the will center that's in the middle of the brain and also the mind center, that lies a few inches above the top of the head. Not only that, but when I say the Higher Mind comes and is found via stillness, I really do mean through silence, through not even one scrap of a word or concept. Call it "the sounds of silence" if you like. But in a Forum of words and concepts, this is kind of going against the prevailing current, in a sense. The actual practice of spirituality is not a matter of discussion, but of bringing huge spaces into the very fabric of all your life -- and, ideally, absolutely loving them, and constantly noticing their presence, interwoven into everything you do, every moment. Lots of beautiful "space" in your life, lots of "nothing" interweaving with you, that isn't really "nothing" but it's more like everythingness.

And the role of the heart is to find love in a sense equally for all people, all beings, for existence itself, and all that ultimately as an inevitable part of one's love for the Divine, for the Whole, as the quote in post #1773 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=878972&viewfull=1#post878972) explained so well.

Let’s clarify some of the relationships between the heart, the will and the mind a little. For one thing, desire (most kinds of it, except desire for the Divine, for the whole) doesn’t come from the heart. We have a strong conditioning to follow or seek "our heart's desire". The entire advertising industry is based on this. But I suggest that conditioning is misinformation. Desire itself (unless it is for the Whole, or unless it's something like genuine biological hunger) is an impurity of the will involved in the emotional parts of our being. When the emotional desires interfere with where the will puts its attention, all our thoughts then becomes subservient to those desires. Our mind, our mental functions become distorted and out of touch, having fallen under the spell of attachment. This is a good example of why the Higher Mind is useful and necessary. Its understanding is what lifts us beyond the grasp of emotional desires. But for that to work, we have to first make ourselves emotionally pure.

The will to enjoy what's pleasant or beautiful is quite wholesome and right for our feeling/emoting part. But our feeling/emotional being isn't content with what it gets, and jumps into attachment. Attachment is precisely what destroys love, of any kind.

Attachment occurs precisely whenever we fail to work with and submit to our Higher Mind. Our lower self needs to learn to accept whatever enjoyment comes to it, but it needs to drop its initially ceaseless craving for more. Instead, it needs to learn to live on trust in the Higher Mind. Create a gap and faithfully trust that it will be filled with delight, and the Higher Mind will oblige, as long as the impurities of past attachment don't interfere too greatly.

We also have cravings that come from our attachment to the body-consciousness. These manifest as the negative emotions of fear, anger, lust, envy, and so on. We do need to find a way to leave all these behind eventually.

Yes, the will to love is proper to the heart, but even here the choice and reaching after love have to be made less immature, and the heart has to be taught to love, yes with depth and intensity but also with a calm depth and a settled presence. Unfortunately, the entertainment industry paints love as something fraught with egoic restlessness and impulsivity and attachment -- often as infatuation, which is merely the ego trying to do what only the Higher Mind can achieve. Some very reliable psychological studies have found that over eighty percent of the population in Western countries marry the person who in their psyches/minds most resembles their opposite sex parent. And that eighty percent in turn of these individuals don't marry the partner who would have been best for them. That's one example of the damage resulting from the prevailing gross misunderstanding of how to develop the heart and how to relate to and work with one's emotional being.

TraineeHuman

4th October 2014, 02:54

The following is a quote from Torkom Saraydarian titled: "What Controls You?" I'm posting it because it provides some good insight into what stillness means when applied to daily life and why stillness is so important; and why it's so different from the life that many people lead:

Things control you when you are identified with them. For example, if you are really, really identified with your wife, your wife controls you [husbands too!]. If you are really identified with your money, your money controls you. If you are really identified with your hatreds, your actions, your emotions, your mind, they always control you because you are them. And because they are always in agitation, you are in turmoil. You are not an independent source of light, of control, an independent unit of consciousness.

People think this is not important because they are so identified with their not-self. Not-self means your body, your emotions, your possessions, your mind, your thoughts, your ideas. They are not you, but because you are identified with them, you think that it is very painful to detach yourself from your not-self and watch it and observe it.

Once you start observing your not-self, you feel joyful, independent, free, powerful. It is not easy to do that, but the whole Teaching is based on observation. The whole Teaching is a progressive development of going toward your Real Self and becoming your True Self. This is the whole purpose of the Teaching.

I would presume to add, though, that when you begin or continue to truly observe yourself it can be very painful or uncomfortable, but if you persist and discover the truth -- which everyone must do for themselves --, then eventually you will indeed discover great joy and freedom and inner power.

To quote Torkom further:

The second step [to freedom] is the step of facing up to the facts about himself. He holds all expressions under survey and tries to find the why of all his reactions and responses on the three levels of his being. He analyzes his thoughts, his emotions, his actions, and he tries to find the urges and motives behind them. He does not do these things as some introspectives do, identifying themselves with their inner and outer states — as he analyzes, he views himself impersonally, and thus cultivates within himself the attitude of a detached observer. When he succeeds in observing himself impersonally, he tries to view others and all events with the same impersonality.

Through this process he discovers the pseudo-rulers in his subjective and objective worlds and gradually decreases their number, until eventually the observer himself becomes the sole ruler of his being. This means simply that the man is no longer the victim of his physical urges, of his emotional waves, or of his different thoughts and momentary tendencies. He tries to face himself at every turn and attempts to unmask every activity and every state of being which pretends to speak or act in the name of the True Self. Here the man becomes a duality. There is the objective world and the one who rules it, but the latter is not yet a clear-cut figure.

Ages pass, and the observer gradually distinguishes between himself and the physical body. Now he thinks and assumes that he is the emotional man. In the next step he leaves behind the physical body and emotional states as not-selves and identifies himself with the mental world. Here he lives for quite a long time, identifying himself with many different states of being, until one day he surpasses his mental world too and becomes a deeper being, a deeper observer on a higher plane. This is called “the path of detachment” and “the path of facing oneself” upon every turn of life….

aranuk

4th October 2014, 15:48

Hi, I don't know if this question has been answered, but 59 pages of 30 posts are a lot to read. When I go to bed and try to get to sleep, quite often, I feel as if my entire system is switched off and complete darkness and silence is all that remains. On every experience like this I think I have just died and I let out a loud roar of fright. My guess to what is happening is that I am conscious of the exact point of falling asleep. I then normally just drift off to sleep slowly and gently. My question to Traineehuman and Jake is this: If the next time this happens and I don't get frightened, what will I find happens?

Stan

I replied to Stan by PM back when I was taking a break. But I'd like to add the following.

When you say that sometimes you manage to observe the exact point when you "go to sleep", I take it you're saying that such "sleep" includes an "awake" or observing component, at least initially. If that's the case, congratulations, and then the self-watching mode you manage to get into is the higher consciousness, the Higher Self, in action. I guess at that point you might attempt to look up even though your eyes are still closed. If you see, say, the ceiling, if you concentrate on that ceiling you'll probably find that you float up to it.

But as far as I'm concerned, the more important thing is that you're accessing your Higher consciousness. There's currently a Spirituality thread with a video of Eckhart Tolle. Tolle spends much of it talking about simply being "present", which is the doorway into Higher consciousness, and it can and usually will be done by you while your physical body is awake. My suggestion to you, Stan, is that you could practice simple "presence" during the day, whenever you get reminded. This will greatly strengthen your ability to "go places" astrally whenever you successfully remain "present" through the falling-asleep process. There are more important things regarding the Higher consciousness than just its role in astral travel. I talk about these in the posts you can find if you Search for the word stillness
in the Search Thread option at the top of each page in this thread.
Thanks TraineeHuman, I'm not sure what you mean by "includes an "awake" or observing component." Can you elaborate what you mean by that description?
I will try to explain again maybe more clearly. Most times when I go to sleep I drift quietly away into dreamland without being aware of the transition between lying there having an assortment of thoughts and these thoughts which I could describe as being of my own volition and in a dream state where the images seem to come from either a deeper layer of my unconscious mind or from some other source. This must surely be what most people experience. However, the state I was referring to is more like this. I am lying there thinking thoughts of my own choosing and suddenly it as if someone has switched me off. Instead of these thoughts in my mind turning into dreams there is suddenly nothing at all. It seems as if my entire body and mind has been switched off.

Stan

chocolate

4th October 2014, 21:25

aranuk

4th October 2014, 22:05

Hi TH and aranuk!
May be, aranuk, you can understand what TH is saying if you imagine that at the moment of absolute silence you are perceiving 'reality' mostly from the point of view of the higher mind (as TH has explained in detail in previous posts) instead of having mostly our body-consciousness perception.
'being awake' is you having the perception from the point of view of your body-mind;
being the observer is again you, but from the position of the higher mind/self.

A bit the same as in some dreams when you are playing as part of the dream, and also somehow outside of it observing the action, or so it seems.

At least that is how I understand TH's words.

I have had several moments such as the one you are describing, and not just as I am preparing to sleep. That is why I decided to write this post. Otherwise I am sure TH will answer much more eloquently than me.

Hi Chocolate, thanks for your comments. So, what do you do when this happens to you when you are going to sleep? Or, does something happen before you can do anything? You say this has happened to you a few times too, would you like to explain in your own words? Could it be I am experiencing pure awareness as the HS out of the body then? So it would seem that this blackout is similar to the experience of death?

Stan (Aranuk)

TraineeHuman

5th October 2014, 01:52

aranuk

5th October 2014, 04:43

Could it be I am experiencing pure awareness as the HS out of the body then? So it would seem that this blackout is similar to the experience of death?

Yes, that's exactly what the "blackness" is, Stan. The next step is to somehow become more and more aware of its continual "watching" presence in all your everyday life. This takes long, long work. As far as I know, proper meditation is usually the quickest and best (and safest) way to cultivate such awareness. It won't remain like seemingly inert "blackness" once you've developed your awareness of it further. The "watching" presence lies at a level above the physical but also above the emotional and mental worlds that all people are familiar with, but penetrates into these as well.

As far as I'm concerned, the most important thing is to get to a point where you have a strong ongoing constant (nonphysical) "sense" or "feeling" that everything related to the body-consciousness is like an island that's contained within something bigger and more intelligent, though subtler.

Everyone has to find their own way there. Phony shortcuts, such as drugs, won't do it, but will just slow things down. One of a number of ways I've nourished this "sense" or "feeling" most of my life -- and it does take serious nourishing, as the most important thing in your life bar nothing and no-one else -- has been through the practice of creativity, including gradually learning to more and more be an "artist of (ordinary) life". Creativity is based on tuning into and receiving inspirations, even little ones. Inspirations are always full of bliss, even the little ones. These are always clearly wordless and pictureless and formless when they arise, but you get to see yourself rather magically transforming them into words, ideas, pictures, actions, feelings.

Yes, this has connections with what everyone experiences at death. That's why there's all the stuff in the New Testament about needing to be "born again", for instance.

Thanks TH, just for the record I have been practicing meditation now for some 57 years. That sounds like a lot of time but it is not. Many years ago after reading Krishnamurti, he explained how to stop the internal dialogue by just observing and letting it pass. A few weeks later the internal chitter chatter ceased. After that I was successful at getting into a peaceful mind. I don't have a visual mind so when I meditate it is in total darkness and no pictures are there. However when I am getting to sleep in bed at night the pictures start and last a wee bit longer than when I am meditating. This sudden darkness I spoke about is similar to the meditative state which is achieved through relaxing and letting the images flow past and not holding on to them. So the difference between meditating and achieving darkness which is a reasonably slow process
and this sudden blackness and switching off the machine is not comparable.

Stan

TraineeHuman

5th October 2014, 04:44

Stan and chocolate, you might like to look at what is meant by "the inner body". This was invented by the late Barry Long, who was one of my spiritual teachers and also Eckhart Tolle's. The way Barry described it, your "inner body" is the sum total of everything you feel or "sense" inside you. (Tolle, in his earlier writings, would also talk about it close to word for word the same as Barry did.) Barry used to say that you can imagine your inner body as having exactly the same shape as your physical body. And that when you die, what survives death is everything that's in your inner body. In the terms I've been using, that would be the same as "everything that's inner, or that's within you".

If you can form some kind of clear understanding or "feeling" of what your inner body minus all your neuroses and complexes and beliefs is, that's the Higher Mind, right there. It's something you "feel" in a non-emotional way (if you'll accept my definition of "emotion" as not including genuine love or any of the other purely positive feelings). It's something you have a "sensation" of that's not a physical sensation, but still something you directly receive (from), and even directly are.

Eventually it will become obvious to you that the Higher Mind is vast. It doesn't really have the shape of your physical body. Even though it may seem to lie "inside of" your physical body, it's clearly not physical, and therefore really lies "beyond". But you can only find it by looking "inside" because -- amazingly -- it's closer to the real you than your physical body is. It's actually the one who is doing all the looking "inside".

I don't know if this will be helpful for you. But at least it's one way of getting largely beyond any concepts and looking directly at what you feel instead.

chocolate

5th October 2014, 10:25

Hi Stan,
to answer your question, I don't feel uncomfortable when that silence occurs. I actually feel really peaceful and comfortable in those moments.
One may call it an escapism of mine, but in fact I look forward to this stage. I also sense this occurs during meditation, which as many reading here know I don't do, according to TH. :) ( no offence here, I think for my own standards, and yours probably, I need to practice it more, and not to be distracted ).
I am only enjoying qi gong stance meditation, because it realigns my energy, and through this creates a fine buzz in my mind, that later on translates - or morphs into - that stillness and lack of sound.
But I don't necessary see it as blackness... I can't put a color to it right now.

The instances this stage occurs, right at this point in time, are more rare, because I am sleep-deprived.

As far as the inner awareness goes, TH, thanks to some past experiences I did develop (as much as I could) of that.
I am sure it is an ongoing process.

PS. I have practiced dying for years, which is something not many will understand, and it wasn't much fun, but it has its good sides. Death and I, we know one another intimately already.

TraineeHuman

5th October 2014, 11:10

I have practiced dying for years, which is something not many will understand, and it wasn't much fun, but it has its good sides. Death and I, we know one another intimately already.

Would you perhaps care to tell us some more about what you learnt in your experiences with death, chocolate? The way I see it, spiritual evolution always means the death of something lower, such as, and especially, a part of the ego. Sometimes the death happens very gradually, but after a time it's clear it has happened. Or to put it another way, in my experience greater inner freedom always requires outer death in some sense or other. So, would you care to say something about how some little deaths you have experienced were the passage to your greater fulfillment?

I have found that in some people the HM comes into its own, with its great calmness and vastness becoming very apparent to the individual, when the individual reaches a "stage" I would call "the death of desire". It's not that one stops having needs, but rather, one clearly sees that the indulging of desires doesn't bring happiness. And in my experience, each such death, even if little, is really a rebirth, as it brings an increase in one's inner guiding wisdom, a kind of compass that guides one in the right direction to go. Yes, there is certainly unpleasantness and suffering to go through because of the ignorance our conditioning has stuck us in. But here surrender to the HM's inner guidance, or to "God", if you like, is what will make the period of such great suffering much shorter. The Bhagavad Gita says: "practice the meditation unfalteringly, without despondency" because, it explains, after you've finished the spinach you are promised the dessert will come, and it will be all that's left for you then. From death to deathlessness, released from the ego, maybe even from restriction just to being in time and space eventually.

I believe that death stops being linked with any suffering for us when,or to the extent that, we have totally let go of attachment and our attachments, and ditto our desires.

By the way, I certainly do consider qi gong a valid form of meditation, if it's practiced daily.

TraineeHuman

6th October 2014, 15:17

aranuk

6th October 2014, 17:29

Thanks TH, just for the record I have been practicing meditation now for some 57 years. That sounds like a lot of time but it is not. Many years ago after reading Krishnamurti, he explained how to stop the internal dialogue by just observing and letting it pass. A few weeks later the internal chitter chatter ceased. After that I was successful at getting into a peaceful mind. I don't have a visual mind so when I meditate it is in total darkness and no pictures are there. However when I am getting to sleep in bed at night the pictures start and last a wee bit longer than when I am meditating. This sudden darkness I spoke about is similar to the meditative state which is achieved through relaxing and letting the images flow past and not holding on to them. So the difference between meditating and achieving darkness which is a reasonably slow process
and this sudden blackness and switching off the machine is not comparable.

Stan

Are you saying, Stan, that through stillness you feel or move fully into a unified or greater whole as distinct from the rather fragmented and limited "you" of more everyday existence?

Or that through stillness, you release within your (greater) self, or open up to, a greater power coming from beyond the physical, emotional and mental dimensions and where, for example, you feel you are only a kind of conduit for something greater, something Divine?

In either case, you would be encountering an intensification of the power of (higher) consciousness. Is that what you're referring to? If so, I guess this involves the paradox that Source seems to be passive in its underlying and supporting of all this (and all existence), and yet at the same time active because of its power and its full-on self-giving.

Or maybe you're referring to something else?

Hi TH, nah :eek: Nothing as you described Sir, just perfect, peaceful, lonely darkness. In complete silence. No audible sounds. A void. For many many years I thought I must be doing something wrong. Most of the teachers on meditation seem to assume that everyone when in a relaxed state see pictures sometimes just to focus their attention on and some pictures or images come fleeting by. If I close my eyes and imagine a Bengal tiger it flashes before my eyes in what seems like a nano nano second. Even in meditation when in complete darkness in my mind if I think of that same tiger it comes and goes so quickly that it doesn't interfere in the slightest way to the darkness. Over the years I have read many teachers who say getting to the stage where there is complete darkness and complete silence is quite an achievement. I know many people who meditate and would just love to be able to do what I do. I would rather swap my darkness/silence for a few images now and again. The darkness and silence I get when meditating, comes after maybe 10 minutes, and it comes slowly and seems to be a reward I would say, but the sudden darkness and silence I am referring to is not the same. When I achieve this silent state I feel very much in control of the situation. Both Rudolf Steiner and Krishnamurti spoke of the space between thoughts and I rather think that is a clearer way I can relate to the thing. They both also said that only in that space between thoughts is the purest state of being. I would agree with them on that. To be in that space between thoughts you have to observe the first thought as being a thought and also the next one as a thought in order to perceive the space in between. When I started following Krishnamurti's instructions over a period of maybe 3 or 4 weeks the thoughts became fewer so the space between became longer as it were. I don't really like being switched off without my will being violated. Do you see where I am coming from TH?

Perhaps it's these little scalawags the elemental beings having a bit of fun at my expense. This happened about 16 years ago and apparently was the work of a friend of mines apprentice guide or something. That is another story.

Stan

TraineeHuman

7th October 2014, 00:20

Nothing as you described Sir, just perfect, peaceful, lonely darkness. In complete silence. No audible sounds. A void. For many many years I thought I must be doing something wrong. Most of the teachers on meditation seem to assume that everyone when in a relaxed state see pictures sometimes just to focus their attention on and some pictures or images come fleeting by. If I close my eyes and imagine a Bengal tiger it flashes before my eyes in what seems like a nano nano second. Even in meditation when in complete darkness in my mind if I think of that same tiger it comes and goes so quickly that it doesn't interfere in the slightest way to the darkness. Over the years I have read many teachers who say getting to the stage where there is complete darkness and complete silence is quite an achievement. I know many people who meditate and would just love to be able to do what I do. I would rather swap my darkness/silence for a few images now and again. The darkness and silence I get when meditating, comes after maybe 10 minutes, and it comes slowly and seems to be a reward I would say, but the sudden darkness and silence I am referring to is not the same. When I achieve this silent state I feel very much in control of the situation. Both Rudolf Steiner and Krishnamurti spoke of the space between thoughts and I rather think that is a clearer way I can relate to the thing. They both also said that only in that space between thoughts is the purest state of being. I would agree with them on that. To be in that space between thoughts you have to observe the first thought as being a thought and also the next one as a thought in order to perceive the space in between. When I started following Krishnamurti's instructions over a period of maybe 3 or 4 weeks the thoughts became fewer so the space between became longer as it were. I don't really like being switched off without my will being violated. Do you see where I am coming from TH?

I certainly agree that it's a significant achievement to get to a point where one clearly distinguishes between mental representations of one's transcendental experience/being and the pure experience/being itself.

I do tend to give a "dark emptiness" that sounds similar to what you describe a name, and that is "the Void". In my experience the Void feels like a kind of black hole, except that I experience/be it as something very positive, and as something closely connected to, or the same as, Source. I "feel" that gigantic positivity, but would claim that such "feeling" occurs beyond all words or concepts or emotions. As I understand J. Krishnamurti, though, not to mention the Advaita Vedanta and Zen writings, the great Silence, the Unknowability, is not destructive of activity, and one normally progresses to maintain a great inner calm and motionlessness in the midst of everyday activity. Inwardly you'll be totally impersonal, yet outwardly you'll show a "personality" that hopefully works powerfully to produce positive results. And there's no contradiction between the two, somehow. As I understand it, that was the most central point of both Krishnamurti's and the Buddha's teaching.

You seem to me to talk of the great Emptiness almost as if it were a problem perhaps, or as if you considered there should be something further, beyond that. Surely, though, when one enters that Emptiness one knows wordlessly that there are no problems?

Certainly, consideration of these things leads us to see how feeble and confusing and misleading words are. And to see how narrow our individual (ordinary) mind is, because it proceeds by highlighting one aspect of the Unknowable at a time while ignoring all other aspects. Indeed, the Emptiness, for me at least, brings a sense of how dreamlike and illusory all else is.

aranuk

7th October 2014, 05:47

chocolate

7th October 2014, 18:44

"YE SHALL BE AS WISE AS SERPENTS”

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10570352_1529615920589362_5363408282983200045_n.jpg?oh=6b25c82837d86db553c50a703124d896&oe=54BAF570&__gda__=1421005135_56a6f541e182fe8a292efe24a9982d2d

The Function of the Connection - i.e., the Human Kingdom. - is Redemption of Consciousness from Its Attachment to Form
-Dr Bruce S. Fisher

chocolate

7th October 2014, 18:50

... When I am in Silence/darkness there is absolutely no description that makes any sense to that experience. No talk of Divine, Source, Higher Self, there is nothing and no mind, complete freedom I would say. No Love, and nothing else really. Just nothing that I am experiencing. No words can come close to describe it really. Maybe I AM no- thing and no- body, no personality, nothing at all.

Stan

And that is how death felt like. ( because TH asked me. I just won't mention the amount of tears that came out of my eyes after I read his post. No, TH, I's rather not talk about it, at least not in public. Not even in private, if I am not in the right company. )

Thank you, Stan.

TraineeHuman

8th October 2014, 01:45

Interesting. chocolate doesn't want to discuss It, and Stan apparently says it's impossible, or at best misleading, to discuss It or describe It, beyond saying things like: "It can't be labelled." By the way, I've definitely been to that place too. Because Stan started this off by asking for comments, I'm presuming to take the liberty to offer my own further comments anyway.

Firstly, I've been visited by many dead individuals within one day, our time, of their death. All of them had gone through experiencing that stripping away or seeming dissolution virtually into nothing -- which I would actually call true detachment and letting go --, and true dropping of one's identities. I believe that certainly Stan, and at least to a great degree chocolate, has "let go" much, much more fully than most individuals do immediately following their physical death. Yes, there is a real "stripping away" of all that you thought you were, like the ground continually being mowed away beneath your feet. And that process lasts for up to three days our time. But as I say, after physical death most individuals are feeling just great before the first day of it is over -- even though it does include the experience that it seems one is almost completely being rubbed out -- and yet that's fine, somehow.

In this thread I've mentioned how a (I think) very small percentage of individuals go through this process and still somehow manage to cling to most of their emotional body (i.e. their astral body) and keep hold of it until their next reincarnation -- which is usually disastrous but I guess they'll eventually learn not to do that. Similarly, many individuals manage to somehow retain much of their "personality", i.e. their mental body, even though it certainly feels initially as though one has been virtually rubbed out.

The first time I experienced It was just after I turned sixteen. Having gome through psychological death and the ego's utter horror (at being partly dissolved by that experience!), guess what I experienced? I found, with greater certainty and vividness than anything I'd ever experienced before, that the Nothing was actually Everything. And that Everything was amazingly intelligent and alive and so on, and it was ever so blissful just to look at/be the Everything. And what's more, the true I was It. I was Everything. From that time on, I always experience the great Nothing as either great peace (that passes understanding), or as something that brings bliss. Usually both.

Later, when I was sixteen, I would have experiences of what is known as nirvana. Let me explain that nirvana is actually the second lowest level of enlightenment. Whenever one is in that state, the thing that keeps grabbing one's attention is that all names are just totally inadequate labels, that words are so inadequate, that reality can't be grasped through any act of grasping such as the (attempted) use of names, for anything. Hmm, sounds a bit like what Stan is saying -- except that for me, this state is always blissful, in spite of always being full of a kind of randomness and openness that seems "crazy".

So, as I've conceded already, words are rather feeble and limited things in the face of the reality you've been mentioning, Stan. However, as we currently are, we aren't living in that total and utter Oneness, or in The-Unknowable-Beyond-All-Names. And the physical world we are actually living in certainly is a world that demands that we quite frequently must use words (or concepts, or pictures or signs or symbols). (I'll have to write another post soon that goes into this in much more detail.)

Because of this fact, for me (when I'm not immersed in a nirvana or similar state etc) there is great value in pointing towards the Unknowable through words, etc, because the more fully we can begin to connect to That in the everyday activities of our life, or to its slightest shadow or its fragrance, the freer we will be of suffering and so on. If you like, you can take the Zen Oxherding Pictures. Picture Eight is about achieving the experience/being of That. But this is only stage eight, it's not the ultimate, not while we're in this or any other lesser world. Pictures Nine and Ten refer to stages beyond, and superior to, just resting in That.

I might also mention that words point to meanings, and the meanings they point to continue to exist far beyond the conceptual level and in essence exist even, I would argue, at the Unknowability level.

aranuk

8th October 2014, 12:39

Well put TH! You have described everything so well here. For sure, we must try to describe things with words which do indeed lead to a greater understanding. I don't know if I explained before, but the experience of achieving this void through meditation is most definitely a pleasant experience compared to a sudden switching off of all sensory perceptions. I don't think I have experienced this sudden blackout for more than a second as my roaring out loud is a welcoming sound to my ears.:p At least I know I am still alive. Please don't get me wrong TH, your words of wisdom are not wasted on me I can assure you. When I have time I will read all your other posts in this thread. Just letting you know you are greatly appreciated.

Stan

TraineeHuman

9th October 2014, 13:31

In one sense the total Universe, or Source, is quite unknowable to us, because how can a symbol or word or expression, or a loving or blissful regard, faithfully capture absolutely all there is? It's like trying to catch the ocean in a bucket.

On the other hand, it's possible to exaggerate the unknowableness of Source and of the totality of all there is. We do learn to know what is unknowable to thought. We do this through our highest moments of consciousness. Amazing, but true.

It's also possible to lovingly apply pure reason and come to certain conclusions about what must be true and what not true regarding Source. I don't mind doing this, because for me it's a little like being happily fascinated with even the tiny details of one's romantic partner. For instance:

However much we strive to grasp the Unknowable fully, even through our consciousness, the All always slips through our fingers. But the reason why this happens is that the Ultimate is the most vast and profound reality there is, and each time we reach out, our failure to reach it fully is precisely what guides us ever deeper, ever fuller each time. This is one of the major reasons why meditation keeps taking us further, higher, deeper. To put that another way, the way we go further and higher and deeper is through knowing the Oneness ever more fully, step by step.

Because Source contains everything else within It, for It there is no such thing as not-Source. It can't be opposed by something or some being outside Itself, because nothing like that exists. Equally, it cannot be the case that Source submits unwillingly to some hostile force within Itself which is stronger than It, because that would imply that something outside of Source exists. Because Source has no opposition at all, It has remarkable freedom, and mind-blowing fecundness or ability to endlessly actualize the most diverse possibilities. And all of this benevolently, because everything that Source does is automatically good. That's because there's no "more-good" to oppose Its actions against, ever.

Also, everything that is willed anywhere in the Multiverse has ultimately been willed by and through Source, which nonjudgmentally tolerates all things and yet ceaselessly works to improve the Multiverse in the best possible ways that current circumstances allow. It's only our limited consciousness that seeks to create some principle or being that we call the Devil, or maybe Entropy and Chaos, supposedly outside of and in opposition to Source. And that's because we fail to understand Source's full long-term purposes, which involve making use even of evil and pain.

The world as we know it is not just a dream in Source's mind. For if it were just a dream, there's nothing unreal about that Dreamer, and even the physical world is ultimately made out of the highest Divine Light, if we could only pierce the veils that hide this fact from our view.

One of the paradoxes here is that ignorance -- estrangement from knowledge of the Oneness -- enables us to appreciate and understand Oneness ever so much more fully, by contrast. This is why we must have the patience and humility to accept the not-Oneness, the world of ignorance and imperfection, rather than cursing it and seeking to escape from it into pure Oneness without the manyness, the relative, the ignorance. Pure Oneness Itself doesn't somehow stand totally separate like that, it doesn't wipe out and hasn't wiped out and won't wipe out the world of ignorance.

aranuk

10th October 2014, 18:40

TH, who could argue with that? Well spoken Sir.

Stan

TraineeHuman

11th October 2014, 06:07

Perhaps it's these little scalawags the elemental beings having a bit of fun at my expense. This happened about 16 years ago and apparently was the work of a friend of mines apprentice guide or something. That is another story.

Stan

Are you saying the elementals were a nuisance, Stan?

Or are you saying that elementals virtually taught you, or greatly helped you, to have your initial experience of It? In my case, that was true, although it sounds like you found they misled you. For me, elementals were the best meditation teachers I have ever encountered. I don't normally go out of my way to communicate with them, but whenever anyone is in a place of natural beauty and just being present and open to enjoying the beauty and peace there, they are communicating with that person on some level.

In my experience they are benevolent beings. They are certainly innocent and pure in many ways, and they love to be helpful -- at least as long as you don't let off lots of toxic energies in their presence. They are primarily concerned with trying to keep the environment alive and working optimally. Some people say they can be mischievous. The only mischief I've encountered was some years ago when I was completing an extra university degree. Some elementals would make my printer not work when I would try to print an essay that I hadn't put an adequate level of work into. Later the printer would be working fine again. Also, I found that I could demand out loud that any elementals who were making my printer not work had to cease doing so immediately, and my printer would start working again. I know it sounds crazy or like a fairytale, but that's exactly how it happened.

In one of his recent interviews, Simon Parkes asserted that a "Tinker Bell" is a type of djinn. Unfortunately, my understanding is he was mistaken on that point. The "Tinker Bell"s are the most junior of the fire nature-spirits. They look exactly like you've seen in the movies or cartoons, and they're maybe two inches tall. And they do have a strong yellow glow around them -- which could get them mistaken for a djinn, although the latter are a quite different race of beings. I suspect that some black magicians or mind-controllers have found a way to somehow trap a Tinker Bell inside a human's mind or consciousness or whatever. The nature spirit would then be imprisoned there, and naturally would try to break through the prison's walls and also protest very loudly until let out again. It's great that Simon knows how to release a Tinker Bell from such a cruel trap. But the elementals don't have the ego like humans or djinns do.

aranuk

12th October 2014, 13:11

The elementals are described in great detail in one of Rudolf Steiner's lectures. From my memory they are either of water, air, earth and fire. The Elementals are tied to a particular Element. Fairies, Pixies, Elves, Gnomes, Crystal Beings, Stone Beings, Wood Nymphs and Brownies are associated with the Earth Element. Sprites, Mermaids, Mermen and Undines are associated with the Water Element. Salamanders are associated with Fire as are Dragons but Dragons are linked with all the Elements. Sylphs, Sylphons, Spirulites and Imps are associated with the Air Element. They all work in harmony to keep Mother Earth (Gaia) and her male counter part Geb in balance. I found that on the web. Not from my memory might I add. Steiner spoke of some kind that really get excited when someone tells a lie. So it would not be hard to imagine that people who lie all the time must have hoards of these elementals following them around encouraging them I suspect to keep on with the show.

Stan

TraineeHuman

13th October 2014, 10:56

One observant member has raised the question of what's involved in achieving freedom from suffering.What is the essence? She felt that for her it must primarily involve the releasing of all her stuck emotions, and the overcoming of the influence of all her past emotional traumas.

Yes, I agree it's usually necessary for us to go through the equivalent of a number of full-time person-years working in a disciplined way on overcoming our individual emotional blocks. I certainly did so. The way I see it, though, our current civilization and culture facilitates the overcoming of many mental blocks though subjecting us to to years of full-time education, and then there are also things like this Forum. But our civilization ever so hugely underemphasizes disciplined work on the emotions. The late Barry Long used to have a (step)son whom he taught self-watching even from childhood. Any time that boy displayed some serious unhappiness, Barry would sit down with him and insist that the boy identified exactly what it was that was causing him to be unhappy, and then faced it head-on right away. This, ideally, is what we should all have grown up doing.

I've frequently mentioned the need for continual self-watching and for deep self-knowledge. As I understand it, it lies at the heart of how one works on one's emotional blocks. There are many different variants of how to do this, and at different levels too. All forms of psychotherapy and counselling, including working constructively on one's shadow, as well as the fruits of meditation applied to daily life, are based on self-watching of some kind. But to achieve big results, and also initially, I believe it's necessary to do this in a very disciplined and very honest way.

I would suggest there are a few different "levels" or "layers" of suffering. One noticeable feature is that one's attitude to suffering changes greatly the higher the "level". The higher ones goes, the more one welcomes suffering, not in any masochistic way but on reaching a certain "level" one reognizes that whatever suffering may remain is a means by which the Divine is teaching one to evolve in the quickest and optimal way. The truth is, absolutely every experience and every outer contact with the world around us, however trifling or however disastrous or humiliating or unpleasant, is used by the Divine for the work of evolving us further.

I'd also suggest that freedom from suffering is the same as freedom from desire, from wanting. I don't mean that one stops wanting necessities, such as nutritious food and proper shelter, for instance.

Freedom from higher or finer levels of suffering has to do with the freedom to surrender to the Divine Will -- which is actually a very proactive thing to do.

I've often talked not only of the emotions and the mind but also of the will and the intuition. Once one has largely ahieved freedom from suffering at the emotional and mental level, the next level is to learn to live by one's very own (soul's/HM's) inner guidance. This inner guidance is often veiled at first because of the ego’s preoccupation with itself and its aims and outlook. But as we progress further, with greater clarity we come to realize that many of our falls and ordeals and unpleasant jobs and difficult people in our lives were actually heaven-sent, so to speak, to teach us how to grow stronger.

At times we will be aware of two states of our consciousness,or else of one alternating with the other. These are two halves of us, an upper and a lower or, if you like, an inner and an outer half. This separation is very useful, because it enables us to more and more take the position of a detached observer in relation to the lower world, the world of ignorance and our ego. In this way we can break free more fully from being trapped in that world. In that world, but not of it.

TraineeHuman

18th October 2014, 22:10

A member has asked me for some comments about "dark energies" and how one may deal with them. Before I talk about psychic attack, though, I'd like to say something about the role of sunlight in helping to overcome "dark moods". I'm including that because that member mentioned that the winter has been particularly gloomy and cloudy in his country this year, and he felt this had made the impact of "dark energies" on him worse.

I understand there is reliable data to suggest that the majority of individuals in Western countries today don't get enough sunlight each day. This greatly hinders the pituitary gland's workings, because for that gland sunlight is like food, and "dark moods" are often the result, since the pituitary controls the entire body biochemically. I understand the minimum time one needs sunlight per day is close to an hour on sunny days, and about double that on cloudy days -- though on darkish cloudy days that won't be enough either. It's perfectly OK to be in the shade as long as one is outdoors. It's also vital not to be wearing any spectacles or contact lenses during that period, as most of the sunlight is absorbed via the eyes. Sunlight is also necessary to activate the vitamin D3 you have hopefully been taking.

I guess that if one can progress spiritually to a certain "level", one could then be constantly healing, and detached from, an unhealthy body's condition and the "dark" moods that brings. But that still might not be enough to get the pituitary undepressed.

Moving now to the subject of psychic attacks. The primary strategy I prefer for dealing with psychic attacks generally, is a variety of what I call "psychic judo". Let me try and explain how this works. I used to have a teacher who would say: "If someone is trying to hand you a lighted bomb, what you do is say: 'No, thanks', and simply hand it back to them. Now they are left holding a bomb that will probably explode on them or at least one that they will have to deconstruct in a hurry to avoid having it explode on them."

I should explain that you may well do such a "return to sender" to such a person without consciously knowing it nor even intending it. Many things can serve quite well to "hand the bomb back", particularly if you have developed your psychic skills a little -- which meditation will automatically do to some degree. If you can manage to truly view the would-be attacker in a genuinely detached way -- which, paradoxically, would include some caring about them --, that will do the trick, automatically.

Also, if you truly, honestly know that you don't deserve the attack, that consciousness may well serve to "reflect" the attack energies all back to the sender.

This is primarily an awareness "game". The one with the greater awareness, or consciousness, generally "wins", at least in terms of not feeling suffering. But what if the attacker basically overall has a higher or more developed consciousness than yours? You can still undo the effects of the attack by spending sufficient time and attention on them. For instance, you could spend at least several minutes every day, possibly for months, healing yourself specifically of any effects that attack has had on you or your life. This will also energetically affect the attacker in the long run, so that they begin to take responsibility for what they did.

This "return to sender" works to some degree in proportion to how detached you are from your ego. You can accurately tell how detached you are as follows. The more you take things personally and get "personally hurt" by whatever, to that degree you haven't detached from, or properly downplayed, your ego yet. Your ego is also the part of you that gets excited, as distinct from genuinely inspired. But even though you may be (and hopefully are or are well on the way to be) properly detached from the ego, you still also have a body-consciousness, which it's certainly much more difficult to achieve full detachment from, though we should all work on achieving that too. The body-consciousness is much less evolved than we are, and the ego clings to it and tries to mimic it. Unless we are totally detached from the body-consciousness, even if we are detached from the ego, the body-consciousness will still suffer all the stresses of life and the body's functioning may be compromised as a result, as well as being more prone to diseases or health problems generally.

As I understand it, there is also a subtler level of attachment than that of the ego or the body-consciousness. A major way this manifests is through cording -- although cording also usually involves some ego as well. Cording has already been discussed, mainly near the beginning of this thread. As far as I know, in most cases the dark Forces -- the demonic beings -- are only able to affect you indirectly, and always via people or institutions or activities to which you are corded. Even in the case of someone like Omniverse, he says that the reasons why he is being targeted have to do with connections -- I would say cords -- from previous lifetimes. And yes, most people do carry over some cords from other lifetimes.

Another thing you will be corded to is your shadow self. The trouble with any shadow part of yourself is, you don't know it's part of you -- until you do. You may wrongly at first jump to the conclusion that it's some external Force or person sabotaging you. Also, the ego itself has a certain level of consciousness and is therefore a living, live thing, which again may at times be acting contrary to your will -- again as if it were someone external to you.

chocolate

19th October 2014, 08:19

TraineeHuman, thank you for this post.
One note from someone who underwent an attack quite recently.

Before entering this forum I felt quite differently, in general, having had some sort of a 'peaceful', but not necessarily a 'happy' life, being at ease with myself. I am also quite aware of my body and the way it functions ( which is probably also a weakness, if the attack is 'addressed' properly ).
It changed after being here for a while. I am not saying that anyone from the forum is responsible for what had happened to me, but I am also not dismissing this possibility. I'll leave this open for now.

I came to the conclusion that it was an indirect attack, as you have described it, months after I am into a recovery of sorts. And it was/is really well crafted, I have to say. Only those who have been through something like that will understand what I mean.

It has to do a bit with health problems, and with lack of sunlight, too. The way you have written it above sounds sound. :)
It also has to do with cording, I agree.

One small side note: The higher the consciousness, the less the possibility for that consciousness to attempt an attack, I would say, if that is to be called a true one ( consciousness ). But as one de-activated friend would say, some use their powers for personal gain, and in the wrong way.

[ No wonder that person was deactivated from the forum, together with another one months before. It seems some of us who have become all to aware of what is going on, get our wings cut off from flying around.
I wouldn't be surprised if I get de-activated very soon. ]

In any case I had help, from friends -- I have being initiated in Reiki, and having attended tai-Chi classes for a while, so those people did help.
I will never know the extend of help I have received in total, and who (many probably) exactly helped me, but I am aware that there was, and has been, and still is, an attempt to rain darkness on my head.
If it weren't for those who helped me, I would say I may have been lost in many ways, physically, and 'spiritually'.
I am with several kilos less after half of an year, having in mind that I am in nature slim... , with a bit of scars here and there ( invisible ones ), and with some very bad taste in my ~mind~.

One very useful tip, though, while browsing this forum. Energy never lies, regardless of your beliefs about that.
So, if one notices heaviness and discomfort reading someone's posts, or if the posts are done in an obvious colorful way, using complex expression and the like tools of the trade, which is a way to hook your consciousness to the one of the writer of the post,
I would advice to
NOT READ those posts,
and to avoid reading anything written from that member.
It works.

It also works to stop visiting the forum, until some members (on different levels) stop being active, technically, or by their own choice.
This is a brave statement, so I am to expect some sort of consequences.
I simply don't care anymore. The truth needs to come out. But don't expect me to start pointing to people using names, that I will never do.

PS. If you do not know how to properly 'meditate' it is best not to do so, regardless of all friendly advises here.

PS2. I had read some time ago that the attack usually comes from someone who needs your help, and that is how your attention is attracted.
That, I had to realize, is also quite true.

PS3. Every attack has an effect both on you and on your attacker. So if one suffers from a lot of those, probably the person needs to rethink things through. Karma cannot be avoided, in most cases.

---
And that was my last post for a while.
Thanks TH. I learnt a lot.

TraineeHuman

21st October 2014, 01:52

aranuk

21st October 2014, 12:46

God, Higher Self and such only complicate the reality I feel. When I am in Silence/darkness there is absolutely no description that makes any sense to that experience. No talk of Divine, Source, Higher Self, there is nothing and no mind, complete freedom I would say. No Love, and nothing else really. Just nothing that I am experiencing. No words can come close to describe it really. Maybe I AM no- thing and no- body, no personality, nothing at all.

Stan

In stillness, the mind is held blank, or calm. It's not empty, because the true you, your being, is holding it in stillness. Any thoughts or actions that come up don't come from within the mind, but from outside it. Thoughts -- perhaps including violent thoughts, or thoughts connected to some psychic attack -- fly across it like birds in a sky with no wind at all, and then there's no trace of them left behind.

A mind that has such calmness can now act, even busily, but it will keep its underlying stillness. But it will do this by receiving from the intuition or from something even higher, and altering nothing of what it receives except for giving it a mental form.

What the well-developed intuition, or maybe just the developing intuition, provides in the case of a psychic attack are the precise resources to cut off and quash the attack. It's a bit like the way that in World War 2 the Japanese kamikazi pilots used Zen meditation to overcome their own fear (rather than any external interference or psychic attack) to silence any impact any thoughts of fear going through their mind could any longer have.

Wise words again TH. Thank you. Just last night as I was getting to sleep I had vague images of people drifting through my mind and it happened again, I am switched off suddenly. As before I shouted out loud, "NO". I then woke up feeling not sleepy at all. I was planning when this happened again that I would not be afraid and I would just see what happens. That plan didn't work unfortunately. One second before the switch goes off I am alive and the next I am dead. That's what it's like for me. As I'm falling asleep gently I can sometimes feel the blood changing in my head. Rudolf Steiner once described that as we go to sleep the blood changes from red blood into white blood. I am looking forward to a glossary of Steiners' topics being referenced so they can be found easily. I have a collection of 250 books of Steiners and this description of the blood changing its properties is in one of my books. However at the moment I would have to read them all to find the particular book where he said that. Anyway, when I meditate and reach that stillness of mind it comes so gently as if the light is getting dimmer and dimmer until there is pure darkness. There is hardly any comparison with that and the switch off suddenly.

Stan

TraineeHuman

22nd October 2014, 08:49

More about this fascinating and ever so important subject of stillness. Stillness has various degrees or levels of it that we may achieve. But if you practise regular self-watching it's very helpful if you can get to a certain point at least sometimes. At this particular point you'll be able to pull back from the physical senses and the lower mind, or lower consciousness, that's joined to them and historically evolved out of them. Strictly speaking, this means taking a point of view that's OB -- external to your body and the body's entire world.

As you do so, you won't be able to help but notice that there is really just a chaotic mess of desires and habits and associations and notions and automatic behavior patterns there. These will appear to you to be something like a can of worms -- constantly moving and spinning around, but quite blindly, and each rather independently of the others. Busily going nowhere, really. There's no real intelligence or certainly no higher intelligence bringing order into all that. There are just blind stimulus-response associations. A bit like the way when you drive, part of the driving is done automatically.

You'll also notice that "normally", whenever you're not watching in detachment from all this, you just accept it as given and you try to bring at least some order and reasonableness into it. And the trouble is, you mostly just get swept up into that chaos and you end up constantly producing rationalizations to yourself for why you behave the way you do. But these rationalizations mostly aren't honest. And people call that normal life.

The only ways to exit from that "quicksand" are: either through strong, one-pointed concentration, or else by managing to bring stillness, or true silence, into that chaos -- which many manage to do for a time while they meditate.

Part of what I was trying to explain in my previous post, though, is that once you learn how to still all that inner chaos -- at least for a little time now and then --, you'll have learnt how to have a great mental passivity. That remarkable passivity is something that you'll then gradually learn to take with you while you undertake all your normal activities. It's there in the background, underlying everything, and you sure do feel it. Eventually it turns into peace and bliss/joy/love. The basic meditation instruction of "let everything be just exactly as it is" is designed to bring you ever closer and more fully to that place. The ego hates this, because the ego wants to forever be blindly going places, doing things, instead of simply being present. But the challenge is to remain present on the inside even as you do all your external everyday activities.

And I also maintain that such stillness or presence is for various reasons a great protection against many, though not all, forms of psychic attack.

TraineeHuman

24th October 2014, 08:31

There is a further very important level or stage of stillness beyond the one described in my previous post. Briefly, this is where one clearly separates one's intuition from one's intellect -- and strongly in favor of the intuition. There are various ways to describe what this involves. For instance, chocolate has sometimes protested that some member was taking an idea too literally rather than figuratively. To further clarify what's involved here, I'd like to take the liberty of quoting most of post #24 here:

Think of an important question you’d like an answer to, if only you were psychic enough to access the answer. Or better, ... find a close friend who has such a question. What you are going to do is get an answer, or some accurate advice on the question, directly ...

Firstly, make sure you are in a quiet space and that you are psychically protected. A simple request to your guardian angels to protect you and all your body cells and the space will do, if you like. Next, you need to get yourself grounded. If you don’t know how to do that quickly, sit down and put the end of your thumb over your belly button. The middle of your hand (which has a huge energy chakra) should be directly over your second chakra (your centre of gravity). Keep that hand there, and that will be enough to keep you grounded throughout what follows.

Next, once you are sitting quietly and peacefully with your eyes closed, in your head say the question, once. Now keep your mind still and free of all stray thoughts for at least 30 seconds, but hold the intention that an answer will come to you after 30 seconds. Thirty seconds is a longer time than you may think. But ignore anything that comes onto the blank screen of your mind before 30 seconds are up. Please be patient, or you won’t get an accurate answer.

Then, whatever you see on that screen of your mind will be an accurate answer. It will most likely be a symbol of some sort or a picture, or several of either. Note what you see in the initial half-second, because after that your thinking mind will start to alter it. Be willing to accept anything, however wild or out of left field or nonsensical it may seem to be.

Tell your friend what you initially saw. It will usually mean more to them than to you, and they will be able to interpret what it means for them. In my experience, some symbols have universal meanings, but they are few in number. ...

If you see nothing but blackness, without thinking describe what that particular blackness feels like to you. That will then be the answer.

Notice that this exercise involves totally trusting the silence, and not your intellect, to bring you an answer. However, the answer is then expressed in mental terms: one or more pictures or symbols, or maybe words also. So, you are going into formlessness -- the silence --, and trusting that that formlessness will communicate the answer to you, by bringing an answer into the world of form.

But we can generalize this exercise. Is not every situation implicitly always asking the question of what is your best response to it? Even if you don't consciously consider that such a question is being asked of you at a given time, isn't it true that you always act and feel and think and so on in response to that implicit question? Sometimes the answer can indeed be provided by your analytic mind, such as when you are doing your accounts or working out the details of certain types of plans (e.g. tonight's dinner), and other such mundane matters. But living by the intuition in favor over the intellect involves most of the time responding to life in a similar way to how you do the above exercise. Eventually you learn how to make the silence last much longer than thirty seconds.

Now, let's assume that you don't really, truly know yet that the silence/stillness is the true you. Then, the more you trust the silence (here that's you as who/what you currently falsely assume you are), the more the silence will trust that "you". And the more good information and gifts it will then bring to you. More and more.

Another paradox is that you have to totally trust whatever the silence tells you, despite the fact that initially and for some time you won't always listen accurately by any means, and hence you'll seem to receive some false messages. Unfortunately, the instant you try to question or evaluate or comment on or react to such a message, the flow coming to "you" from the silence stops. So, you have to totally trust messages even though initially some --as you "receive" them -- will be quite wrong. How can one bear doing that? Well, if, instead, you continue trusting your can-of-worms ordinary mind and intellect, as you had up to that point, then they too will be misleading, and without any hope of becoming accurately reliable, let alone liberating you from unhappiness etc, at some point in the near future.

You have to take the leap of trust -- trust in the true self you don't really know; and that you can only ever fully access through trusting without question. More and more and more.

I appreciate this means continually stepping boldly into an empty chasm with no safety net in sight. But as far as I know, it's the only way to get the Higher Mind / soul, and eventually even the intuition, to fully descend.

I appreciate this may be highly distasteful to the Western mind, which aggrandizes intellectual thought to be our highest capacity. Moreover, the Western mind is apt to mistake the ability of the Mind not to think but be completely silent for some kind of incapacity for thought or some great lack of critical or accurate perception. All I can say is that intellectual thought is not our highest capacity. Not only that, but to succeed in living by the "silent" intuition's knowledge we need to actively keep relegating intellectual thought to a status altogether subordinate to the intuition, merely its servant and nothing more. This is also not easy because our intellectual mind will probably be settled into an almost lifelong habit of mimicking our higher faculties, such as the intuition, so fully as to hide their very existence from many of us.

Ah, the beauty and the supreme peace of the absolute Silence, more eloquent than any words or language.

TraineeHuman

26th October 2014, 09:14

Still on the subject of stillness, I'd like to say something further that's hopefully relevant to what Stan has mentioned.

Recently there was a General Discussion thread started by greybeard, where he asserted that when it comes to personal change (or "awakening", to use his term), the big questions are: "From what?" and "To what?". I'd like to explain, though, why I consider "To what?" to be largely a wrong question -- at least, largely wrong until after one has already gone through the change in question. I felt this was a somewhat wrong question on similar grounds to how I don't feel it's good for someone to describe in detail what another person I haven't met yet is supposedly like. Because when I meet that person I'd like to see for myself, and not merely see them through the other person's filter.

Since we only ever get spiritual/emotional healing or change by going deeper inside, I guess you could say: "Change to what?" could be a wrong question because everything higher is already "here what" and not at all "elsewhere what", except for the fact that we haven't surrendered to its full release "here" yet. But it's still waiting "here", not "there".

But the level of stillness I now want to talk about is the one that's achieved through psychological death. Death means the total negating of what (supposedly, for us at present) is. I suggest it's not intrinsically a negative thing, in spite of its bad reputation. Yes, it's a total rejection of everything -- except the sublime freedom of nothingness, emptiness. And that is what dying to be reborn means. And I do mean (psychologically) dying -- giving up everything, including any notions or concepts or even intuitions of what will happen or what one may perhaps change into. It's a total giving up of security -- except that maybe you've already discovered that the Emptiness, the Nothing, is OK or even a blissful place, however spooky or weird it may be too.

You don't have to wait for an NDE or actual physical death before you drink of this, set "the impossible" free a little bit. I've occasionally read some member or other writing about their personal despair. And I've wondered: how to persuade that individual into totally rejecting everything (including potentially the idea of possible suicide at a physical level)? It's not easy to find such a way to persuade them, because it all has to come from the individual themselves. Only they can give away all that (they suppose) they are. Do you truly have the courage, and sufficient freedom from emtional numbness, to be that strong? Can you take that leap -- perhaps the biggest leap of all -- of huge faith in yourself? "Neti, neti." Which means: Source is neither this nor that. How can you have a radically huge change in your life unless you leave all that you were behind, at least temporarily? And then you're free to add more into your life, to enrich it with something completely different.

Strangely, totally giving away and in the most radical and (positively) powerful way rejecting all the defensiveness and suffering and the security blankets within you is, or can be, an act of the purest self-love. Love sees what is false, but rejects it. When you've thrown out everything else, all that's left that's truly you is pure love, pure being, and understanding. Maybe it's not so surprising, then, that both U.G. Krishnamurti and Eckhart Tolle both at one stage spent several years living as a homeless person. Inside themselves they had died to all that nonsense. They had negated what is (as they had known it up to that point), for they knew that beyond that is the place where true freedom lives, the place where a truer and deeper level of "what is" then emerges.

TraineeHuman

30th October 2014, 06:30

There's another side to darkness, although we may not realize we live in this. Think of what darkness may mean in the broadest sense. Until we one day will manage to liberate certain higher faculties and states within ourselves, we live in a world that's already dark by nature. What I mean by this is, as long as the ordinary mind has control over our life -- which it has for the great majority of people --, we live in a world with divisions, ignorance and limitations everywhere. And the animalistic ordinary mind is actually the creator of many of these.

The root of this darkness is the fact that our ordinary mind sees us as separate from the rest of the universe, which it sees as "out there", somehow split off. And as only being relevant when it directly interacts with our individual mind or person. This is a kind of prison. It's not that this planet has somehow been designated as a "prison planet". But it's because the humans who currently inhabit it have imposed darkness on themselves, through their myopia. The alternative would be for us to see ourselves as a conscious expression of the One. That would break us out of this jail, so to speak.

You could say it's simply a matter of changing your perception, changing how you see things, to always or often seeing and feeling the One in and through everything -- except that you also need to realize the One to some degree, to truly know and preferably continually notice that the One is the glue that holds absolutely everything together. Otherwise, all we experience is the darkness of the "shadows" of the One instead of the One itself.

In this sense, the "life in darkness" which it is supposedly normal to lead imprisons the soul, and even any spark or action of the Divine. This "mine, mine, mine versus the entire rest of the universe" separate and alienated life amounts to a continual self-manufactured contest which the mind, the individual person will continually lose in massive ways. It leaves the mind helpless and in continual suffering, and largely reduced to purely mechanical responses to being so overwhelmed and continually used and driven by the gigantically mismatched "opponent" that the universe then becomes.

It's only when our (higher) consciousness develops more and more that we dimly but gradually begin to learn to enjoy and master the play of the universe. We begin to flex our consciousness muscles more and more and discover that through our not resisting the universe it becomes more and more apparent that in our depths that which has the mastery of the universe itself lies dormant, timeless and infinite. We begin to discover that who we really are is undoubtedly eternal and enormously powerful. But to get to that point, we do somehow need to get far advanced in eliminating desire, which at this point is too "dark" a thing to be anything but a hindrance.

chocolate

30th October 2014, 10:51

If I may:

qmL4CeTENtw

If I may not, then I'll come later and delete the post.
:)

TraineeHuman

31st October 2014, 08:47

Great video, chocolate, packed full of simply expressed basic truths that cut deep. The truth is so simple, it makes one wonder why doesn't everyone we meet day to day "get it" more. I felt the best parts for me were from 9:50 to 20:30 and 21:30 to 25:00. What a shame that we don't have a culture that passes this sort of information on to every kid.

chocolate

31st October 2014, 09:56

In a way I can say I am simply happy I lived up to this point in time. This is one of five videos, all quite amazing.

"Inner Worlds was created by Canadian film maker, musician and meditation teacher Daniel Schmidt. The film could be described as the external reflection of his own adventures in meditation."
http://www.innerworldsmovie.com/index.cfm?page=about
There was a thread here in the beginning of May about it.

( but, to be honest, I think the creators have been reading ((... possibly from your thread)) quite a lot, too, not just meditating. :) )

TraineeHuman

31st October 2014, 11:18

Well, such basic truths as that (spiritual, and psychological) freedom is only ever found by going within is known to anyone, present or past, who has managed to find at least some such freedom and to reflect accurately on his/her journey there. Ditto with the truth that conscious stillness/ silence is the only true way out, and of how it works, and so on for most of the things in the video.

And the writers of the video have managed to express many very important things very simply and clearly, and very confusion-free . That takes great skill, and probably great maturity of practice.

TraineeHuman

1st November 2014, 13:42

I'd like to hopefully clear up a little of the huge confusion surrounding what individuality is and whether or not we need to eventually lose it. Unfortunately, although there've been at least several very great Indian men of wisdom in the last century and a half, most of them have been seriously misguided as far as claiming -- as a result of falling victim to some dumbing-down I'll explain -- that all our individuality eventually needs to be dissolved or removed. And in favor of absorption into some kind of universal blancmange, so to speak. Ditto the Western esoteric traditions, which are unfortunately major victims of the dumbing-down known as platonism, or neoplatomism. Platonism says that what is more general or universal is more real. Hence, according to it, we eventually need to evolve into being general and thereby lose all our individuality.

But as I've frequently said, the truth is, the ultimate spiritual achievement is that of descension. Descension means bringing in, and seeing, the general and transcendental in the individual and particular. It doesn't mean destroying the individual at all -- well, apart from the destruction of any neurotic attachment to the individual. It means keeping both the individual and the general and universal, together.

Consider the sayings of Jesus regarding how if you do something inconsiderate even to the "least" of persons, you truly, truly have done it to Jesus too. What does this mean? I believe it was intended as no figure of speech, but as a statement of fact -- though only because "Jesus" had reached a type of universality with all humankind. But how could that be? Well, in some of my own experience and in that of others, one comes to feel that one sees and feels all friends, for example, as all being more the same than they are different. This doesn't mean one loses touch with their differences. In fact, although their individual differences now seem more minor than before, one seems to savor them, to appreciate them more greatly also. Of course, the "rational", limited mind may consider this a contradiction. How can there be a greater appreciation of sameness and a greater appreciation of difference at the same time? It may be paradoxical, but it's true. One even becomes aware of a great sameness, a great intimacy to you, in every human being and even in every animate being as well, and maybe even in every form of life, including rocks and what have you.

One reason why some get misled about this is that there are at least two broad stages of (spiritual) enlightenment. And in the lowest stage one does indeed experience certain general or transcendent, and also even universal things as being far more vivid and real than any particular things. In particular, the first sub-stage of the first stage brings an enormous aloofness. In that aloofness, one of the things one becomes very strongly aware of, if I can be forgiven for yet again using an expression I invented a few months ago, is the glue of the One or Oneness that holds absolutely everything else together. That "glue" is extraordinarily beautiful, and intoxicating. The initial aloofness is a consequence of being burnt by the Sun of its glory. It can take one years to recover from this. Incidentally, this is why I highly disapprove of the use of all hallucinogenic drugs and of marijuana and ayahusca. It's bad enough to experience that aloof state by natural means. At least then the experience gets integrated into one's life and psyche. But very sudden, artificial entry into it is likely to lead to unfortunate and very escapistic work/career choices.

The second of the two broad stages is the one where descension occurs -- which is integration of the mundane and everyday and finite with the transcendental and general and blissful.

Next, I need to explain about all the dumbing-down, both Eastern and Western. I'll do that in a day or so, but for now would like to leave you to consider one Western dumbing-down outright lie which has affected both the East of the last two centuries and the West hugely. I'm talking about the Western notion of "nothing". The truth is, there is simply no such thing as nothing. It's a purely fictitious idea, I suggest. It's a little like talking of "the present king of France". Although that phrase seems to be meaningful, it's really meaningless because France is no longer a monarchy.

TraineeHuman

2nd November 2014, 02:05

In this post I have to go into some abstract philosophical ideas. But before I do, I'd like to focus on the fact that when we take the Witness position in self-watching, or in meditation or OB travel into formless or higher states, we all already experience "nothingness" which will often to the ordinary mind seem like it's "nothing" or "empty", but will in fact be absolutely filled with aliveness and wordless higher intelligence. Initially I experienced this without receiving any conceptualizing about it at all, and in enlightenment experiences one experiences it all even more fully and deeply. But we all already have some direct experience of what the "absence" or "negation" or "nothingness" or "empty space" I'm going to talk about actually means.

Let's begin by looking at the concepts of form and space. Westerners tend to think of space as being in itself just "nothing" -- but as I've already pointed out, there is no such thing as nothing, not in the nihilistic sense that Westerners conceive of it. Form and space are intimately interrelated. That's because the only way the boundaries of a form can even exist is through space being present beyond them. Westerners tend to discount that space. But actually, it's conceptually and existentially prior to form. For a form can't even begin to exist unless there's already a space for the whole of it, existing prior to when that form comes into existence.

Notice also that although form and space are distinct from each other, they're not somehow in conflict with each other. Unfortunately, though, the Western mind in a knee-jerk kind of way leaps to the assumption that any two things that are different must somehow be in conflict. In this case one of the two -- space -- actually makes form possible, enables it to come to be.

I won't talk about ancient Chinese (particularly early Ch'an Buddhist) notions, which were more sophisticated than the ancient Indian ones. But the Indian are closer to Western conceptions. In ancient Indian thought (two thousand or more years ago), absence was considered more primary than presence. This was for reasons very similar to why space is indeed more primary than form, as I've just explained. For instance, instead of saying: "Where there's smoke there's fire," they would say: "Absence-of-smoke implies absence-of-fire." I don't want to go into the details more than this. My whole point is, the Indian masters of the last two centuries all received a very Anglocentric education, and hence were ignorant of, or totally misunderstood, the understanding of "negation" that their ancient Indian predecessors had, and also, to some extent, the true nature of space. The only one I know of who didn't fall into that trap was J. Krishnamurti, who I believe was the most recent reincarnation of the Buddha. Because of the unfortunate dumbing-down of those and other masters in this area, we have seen such things as the notion that nirvana (the second lowest level of enlightenment or universality) means non-being, non-existence. When I happen to know it doesn't. That's an example of the totally nonsensical Western notion of "nothing" infecting Indian thought.

A major problem for Westerners in coming to grips with this is that in our own Western culture there's a certain huge dumbing-down that's at such a basic conceptual level, most Westerners have no idea it's a dumbing-down, but mistakenly assume it's the facts of how things necessarily are in the universe, and in any universe. I'm talking about the underlying assumption that reality reduces top one concept, that of what philosophers call a "substance". Basically, a "substance" is anything that's noun-like or object-like. The assumption that substances are the cornerstone of reality (and that you yourself are a substance) is not only arbitrary. Both mystics and quantum physics have utterly proved that it totally fails to be consistent with the facts, with reality, in their areas of investigation.

TraineeHuman

3rd November 2014, 10:19

One member has asked me for a point of view regarding a certain question about perfection. Perfection is a tough topic to discuss. And yet it's in some ways the most important of all topics, because all our (spiritual) evolution is ultimately about the movement towards greater and greater advances towards perfection in some sense. Seek it we must. And yet words are so shabby and misleading by comparison to it, so judgmental, so limited. Can we even be sure that perfection, or our Infinite true Self, is anything more than a concept existing only in our own mind? And surely the Infinite, or Source, is mostly indefinable. So maybe full perfection is just way beyond the reaches of anything we can ever say or point to? And even if that's not the case, how do we successfully "translate" the Infinite into our own particular individually-blinkered terms? Maybe we are reduced to Silence.

And yet, once we start to become familiar with the inner peace inside us, we gradually notice more and more that that peace is not so much passive as it's highly energised and pregnant, and pregnant with no less than every energy that makes the universe work. We begin to walk in all-seeing silence like the night.

As far as I understand, perfection means doing as Source does, as far as that's possible. Source certainly accepts and creates and supports all levels of existence. So I don't think it's a matter of escaping to some higher level that's then seen as less "imperfect". Rather, it's a matter of perfectly facing and taking whatever gets dished out to you, including, ironically, all the imperfection we see in this world, such as all the conflict and injustice and ignorance and so on.

The member's question was, does perfection require imperfection -- its opposite -- in order to even exist? I would say no, but equally I'd say that perfection can never afford to ignore all the imperfection, not even for a moment. It needs to remain calm in the midst of the imperfection, but it also needs to continually work to transform it.

That's easier said than done, of course. Normally, we make the distinction between perfection and imperfection as ordinary human beings struggling under the pressures of life and the difficulties of how we respond to its continual problems and perplexities. The challenge of perfection, then, or of making small steps towards perfection, is for us to become so stable in the Silence, in the immortal One, that we continually bring that higher form of existence into our everyday world and aren't overcome by this world's problems but instead, through the extraordinary use of our higher faculties such as intuition and imagination, continually transform them and reduce the unhappiness and suffering around us.

The challenge in the end is, can you, can we grasp the essential nature and the essential cause of error, suffering and death? Only then will we have a good chance of truly eliminating them altogether.

David Allen

5th November 2014, 14:17

Sierra

5th November 2014, 18:40

As far as I understand, perfection means doing as Source does, as far as that's possible. Source certainly accepts and creates and supports all levels of existence. So I don't think it's a matter of escaping to some higher level that's then seen as less "imperfect". Rather, it's a matter of perfectly facing and taking whatever gets dished out to you, including, ironically, all the imperfection we see in this world, such as all the conflict and injustice and ignorance and so on.

The member's question was, does perfection require imperfection -- its opposite -- in order to even exist? I would say no, but equally I'd say that perfection can never afford to ignore all the imperfection, not even for a moment. It needs to remain calm in the midst of the imperfection, but it also needs to continually work to transform

I don't think it is a matter of escaping to a higher level either. Someone asked a similar question (of Osho I think), and he said when in 3D, we are like the lotus blossom, and it is our choice to where our perception resides, in the darkness and mud of the lotus root or basking as a flower in the sunshine. As 3D inhabitants we are always rooted in mud (blind or imperfect) so to speak.

I've also heard (and firmly believe) that source relates to you exactly where you are, and wants a 24/7 relationship, and it is that relationship that impels us upwards, into perfection, if you want to call it that.

I don't think it is possible to "Be ye perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect." (KJV) It should have been translated as "Be mature as your Father is mature.", meaning implicitly that of course you can become mature, it is part of the human growth or evolutionary process.

Sierra :)

TraineeHuman

6th November 2014, 07:19

Thank you for the post.

It sure puts things into perspective for me. I have been consciously on my journey toward enlightenment for 2 1/2 years, and can relate with having gone through the first stage, and passing forward.

One note; I have never been one to drink, or do drugs of any sort. I did, however, at the age of 54, have my first Ayahuaska ceremony about 2 weeks ago in Iquitos, Peru. After talking with Jerry Wills, about my quest, he suggested I try a journey. I had the most amazing experience.

First may I state that I had no hallucinogenic experience at all. While others began purging (vomiting) and having their cleansing of deep buried issues, I felt only a calmness, and great clarity, both emotionally and intellectually. I was more in tune with my thoughts and emotions than ever before. Secondly, I was able to contact the being which visits me nightly and assists in the downloading of information I have been receiving since beginning my practices of mediation, contemplation, and introspection some 2 1/2 years ago.About a year ago. When I asked for proof from this entity, that he was real, and that I was not making this up, I was visited nightly, for a period of several months, by spacecraft. These were witnessed by friends as well at my home.

During the Ayahuaska ceremony, the same craft arrived, and when I would ask him (the one I refer to as the entity) to give me a sign that he was the same being, I would receive a brief spray of water on my face. This was not a hallucination, as the pillow was wet, I was wet, I could hear the water as it hit the bedding, and also others in the ceremony felt the water on me. To cut to the chase -- The following morning, having said nothing to the Shaman about my experiences, she explained to me that she saw the same two spacecraft, and describe them to me, as well as a very powerful light being from Sirius over my bed, lovingly communicating and playing with me, and dousing me with a mist of water (this was indoors, and there was no running water). She also expressed to me that he had unconditional love for me, the same love that a father would have for a child, and he communicated to her that he was always with me, and I was doing just fine, and I was a loving "little baby" well on my way.

I never slept that night, only communed with this entity, in a very playful, lighthearted manner with a lot of kind humor going back and forth between us. I felt the entity was Male, and I knew it was the same entity I had nightly contact with at home.

I feel that the Ayahuaska helped me to have more clarity and awareness of all that is, and enabled me to be more aware of a reality that always exists around me. felt a deep connection with the plant as being an entity (a being), and not a drug.As a note with regard to Ayahuaska being considered a "hallucinogen"-- One would have to consider the following: The fact that that the experience of the spacecrafts were experienced by all at the Ceremony. I was wet by water, indoors, with no running water, and nobody near me at the time. This was witnessed by others at the ceremony. Also, my perception of an entity hovering over me, and spraying me with water being confirmed by the Shamans' comments to me the following morning (these comments were made prior to me saying anything about my experiences). Taking the aforementioned into account, one would certainly question whether or not I hallucinated this. Again, this is my experience. I don't claim that all experiences are such.

I look forward to reading any and all commentary.

Thanks again -- David

It would seem, David, that ayahuska is like a very honest mirror, that reflects or feeds back to one an in-depth picture of exactly where they are at. In the light of your post, then, I would have to withdraw my reservations regarding the use of ayahuska -- but perhaps, and I suspect probably, only by those fortunate individuals who, like yourself, have realized a certain "advanced" level of consciousness.

I do continue to wonder if many others would be truly ready to all at once face a huge, very concentrated and complete dose of the truth about themselves. In your case, I imagine you had already faced your shadow very extensively before having the experiences you describe. It seems that all enlightenment experiences are preceded by some major ego-facing and ego-death immediately prior to their occurrence.

I would describe the being who's apparently from Sirius as being no doubt one of your guardian angels. At present I usually don't have the ability to consciously receive communications from my own or others' guardian angels. But I do usually manage to remember to ask for their assistance with difficult situations. They are very reluctant about intervening too directly in our affairs unless we freely and specifically request that. I usually then find I receive ample evidence of their help each time, and it's often ingeniously creative. Guardian angels are clearly harder to locate or communicate with than "guides", and some of the latter aren't reliable, I've found. Maybe it's enough for us to once or a few times have a strong, vivid experience of a guardian angel's presence as you have had. That will already leave us with proof that they're there and ever ready to help but also to teach us lessons.

In this thread I've included many bits and pieces regarding what various higher levels of consciousness are like, for the benefit of anyone who may be ready to explore them. As the beginning of a response to Sierra's post, I'd initially like to say that spiritual enlightenment is a very real phenomenon, and that it's a huge step towards what might be considered "perfection", or at least "perfection" relative to lower states of consciousness or of living. I'll expand on this in my next post, but I could easily go on for many volumes on this one subject, since it's so vast. Higher levels of consciousness, or of enlightenment, actually do involve the activation of totally new faculties. For instance, our education system has taught us to think that Light is something physical, or electromagnetic. Not true, in my experience. The physical part is just a faint shadow, so to speak, of real Light. And at a certain point, Light more and more begins to replace what was there before as "mind". Think of a comic strip where lightning strikes a person and they get a huge flash of non-physical illumination. Another example of something that outright replaces mind, and even Higher Mind or the soul eventually, is Vision. I don't mean the corporate manufactured slogans that big business likes to trot out and impose on its staff, of course. Also, I've already mentioned recently how the developed intuition hugely overshadows and relegates the intellect, the reason, to a subordinate status of simply providing support to the intuition. These are only three examples. This is why Nietzsche described the spiritually evolved human being as a "superman" (or "superwoman", no doubt). Nietzsche himself no doubt possessed some of these faculties. He was possibly the most influential philosopher of the nineteenth century, but also on the philosophy of the twentieth century too.

dpwishy

7th November 2014, 14:36

After a year of random obe or coming in from lucid states, I had my first fully conscious and self initiated OBE a few nights ago. This is the write up I did of it, it was a pretty amazing experience.

"A couple nights ago I had my first fully self initiated and fully conscious obe (out of body experience). The last year or so they have been happening randomly, usually coming from lucid dream states. Then a period started happening where I would wake up when I was asleep but in sleep paralysis. I was never able to put the two together that this was the same thing and to take the next step and actually leave my body. In fact it almost seemed like something was trying to keeping me in my body, the first time this happened was pretty terrifying. I thought I was being attacked or abducted and I couldn't move or speak, I was screaming to my fiance next to me but not a single word would come out.

Later as I explored this via the lucid dream states, I found that a being was trying very hard to keep me from going into the astral. When I was getting in there, amazing healing was being done. People that would not allow healing at all to occur with me in the physical, would sit at a table with me in the astral and the healing would occur that we both needed. Anyways, almost anytime I was in these states for prolonged periods, at some point I would get noticed and be forced to leave. By forced I mean either dropped into lower or more dense dream states or woken up, it was usually be the latter. When I would get contact with my higher self in the material realm, I would ask for tips to help combat this and this started my path with crystals. Something I always rejected and seen as lunacy prior.

Two days ago I was laying down to go to bed, about the 10th day using the target technique. As I was imagining my self leaving my body to go to my first Item, my light body just rolled to the right side and literally fell out of me onto the floor. As soon as this happened I realized what I had accomplished and I heard William Buhlman say that most people never leave their room the first x amount of obe's. Hearing this, I went right through the side of my cabin, out of the planet and into the cosmos. Within seconds I was gone. The sensation of flying consciously was one I had a hard time getting used too. If felt as if you were going over a quick hill in a car, or going down a hill on a roller coaster. That weird stomach in your chest feeling. Its that constantly, its quite the stimulus overload in sensation when its constant and never ends. Its something I need to get used too if I want to explore these states.

The first thing I did when I truly realized I was out there and could do anything was asked to see my higher self. It was if a hook attached it self to my back and my forward flying was no longer in my control. I was now being whisked away in the opposite direction by a conveyor belt that seemed guided by some intelligent force. As soon as I got there, I was rotated around this object, this being. As I looked and took a few revolutions around it, I noticed it was a baby. I am not talking a child or a toddler, but an infant. I would call it 8 months to a year old. Before words for sure. I was confused and thought it was a joke and flew off to explore the cosmos some more.

I flew around the cosmos for a long time, first just horizontally as I always thought the universe and the solar system went on a flat horizontal plane, nope I was wrong. I went through it vertically and going through the layer that seperated them was no different than going through the wall in my cabin. No resistance, zero. I looked horizontally, a whole new set of celestial objects, a whole new existence. Instead of even going through to explore this one, I just went up vertical again, and again and again. The fact that there was this horizontal existence didn't blow my mind anymore, what blew my mind was there was no end to the vertical breakthroughs. I stopped the vertical breakthroughs because my realization was had and I didn't need to take another, not because it wasn't there. Infinity was shown in all its glory.

I roamed around and was amazed in the beauty. I went up into this plane and then to that one, I kept roaming around for awhile, going up another or back down a few. There got to a point where I had the realization that I had no idea where I was nor was it ever possible to remember where I am to relation to my cabin and body. It was like I flew to a new city and drove around for hours, never writing down which turns I took. Back tracking would be impossible. A moment of immense fear swept me as I realized I couldn't find my way back to my body. "Is this how people die?" I thought to my self. I have a ten year relationship with shamanic visual rituals in higher consciousness work and one of the tools that it has given me is the ability to let go. As soon as that fear got to its peak, I accepted that this was my fate and let go, In that instant I was back in my body but "it" was also there too.

When I say it, I mean the being that has been trying to stop me from doing this for so long. I have never seen it face to face, if that's even the right way to say it. It looked like a mix between the smoke monster from lost and the dark lord in the lord of the rings. There was this many arms attribute to it, but they were sweeping like smoke, twirling and spinning. At the very end they would just disintegrate leaving nothing behind. The smoke would never rise off it but just dissipate at the end of the twirling arms. I was overwhelmed with fear, a fear I have only felt a few times in my life. I noticed that experiencing fear gave him control over my being. It was as if in a shamanic ritual the vision is bad, concentrating on the bad things just makes it worse. There is this spiraling of thoughts that can become a prison. Learning how to break this and not become a victim of it is a very useful tool.

A thought came in my head of who I was, not in a cocky sense, but a knowing of who my soul is, who we all are. This almost egotistical laughter came over me when I realized who was on my "team". As if I had cousins who were much bigger and stronger than me that I knew with a phone call would come defend me in a fight. I made my stance. For the first time I no longer would be the spiritual victim, but a warrior of light. I stood up and drew a circle around my cabin declaring the rules to this space defining who and what could be present. I then evoked the two highest aspects of the self, the Christ and the Father. I am not saying I am anything special, anyone can do this as these are aspects of the self. I just only work with the center column of the self. Rosicrucians call it the Christ column, but its the middle path in the tree of life. The path of balance. When I say Christ and father, I am referring to my way of naming the archetypes of the self labeled at the 6th and 1st sephora in the kabbalic tree of life. I am going to go into great detail as this blog continues on the tree of life because I find it a very useful tool to explore the self. It is my belief that Jesus fully had the 6th sephora archetype of the Christ fully manifested in his being. He was no longer Jesus, but the Christ.

This being then become so powerless, it became like a little child. I don't mean it physically turned into a child, but spiritually it turned into a little child that threw a tantrum. The sorest of sore losers. In my childish nature of only being in this situation for the first time, I almost taunted it like you would a scared animal that you wanted off your property. Mocking it as it fled. Thinking back I wished I kept my mouth shut, my victory and stance being the presence needed alone. Humility in these situations is a trait I would like to cultivate in its fullest.

What confused me was when I was mocking it and it was fleeing, I screamed "Lucifer get the f*ck out of my house" without even thinking. It just came out on auto pilot. I never like to name beings or use titles because I am afraid that past history has distorted named and figures and maybe some good beings are seen and bad and vice versa. This has made me think and ponder very deeply who this being is and why I called it that. Not only who it is, but why was it working so hard to keep me from those astral spaces.

When this all ended I got up and went to work. That made me laugh all day. Here I was, 3 hours ago a warrior of light battling in the astral and now I am painting at a home owners house. I had this immense feeling of joy and freshness. A feeling I normally only get after huge breakthrough shamanic experiences. There is just a new pep in the step spiritually sort to speak. The whole next day at work I was upset with my self as for some reason something deep down knows that in some weird way, that infant was my higher self. Or was the symbol or metaphor it used to teach its meaning. We all know the most holy of holy eyes is streaming from a young child, they are trailing the finger of God as they come in. Only to slowly lose this connection as reality tells them what they are and what it is. That Maybe the first thing that comes into creation is the higher self, to slowly drift away from it and become who we experience now. That our most holy instant, is our first instant, and also our last."

Thanks for this thread, its been a big help. Wanted to share my progress

Source: http://originsofenergy.com/blognovember72014.html

In divine friendship,
your brother,
-michael

TraineeHuman

8th November 2014, 01:42

Wow, what a detailed and accurately observed description of what so many aspects of astral travel are like, Michael. Yes, I've also sometimes seen the Higher Self/ Higher Mind (though it's intrinsically formless, but it can adopt a form too) showing itself either as a young infant or as a big human fetus about to be born (not be confused with the archontic "blob" that sometimes gets described as looking a little like a fetus). No doubt Arthur C. Clarke had seen it a few times too. Hence the ending to the movie 2001: A Space Odessy, implying that humankind's next major evolutionary leap will be to have everyone's Higher Mind reintegrated with their body.

I've also experienced that endless travel through one physical universe and out into yet another that seems to underlie it or be "higher". Yes, that's very beautiful visually, and feels mind-blowing. This would seem to imply that even the physical universe/multiverse appears to be quite literally, actually, infinite, as I think you're saying. There's also the experience, even in those endless levels of physical universes, that it's quite impossible for one to grasp hold of all of them, as I believe you say. As soon as you feel you've so to speak got some sort of grip of one big section, you find it's so huge there's simply no way to "grab" the rest without forgetting and letting go of what you've got so far.

I've seen at least a similar demonic superbeing to the one you describe. But I find it preferable not to engage at all with anything like that, because otherwise one is giving them some rope to seriously frighten one with or whatever. I myself don't even bother to work out that it's trying to thwart me, because even that would be to give it too much attention, as far as I'm concerned. But whatever works for you ...

I also suspect you were in a formless realm, or higher, when you found yourself totally lost and then fell out of it as you went into fear because you suspected you couldn't find the way back into your body.

I'm glad you mentioned you experienced that you have "cousins" operating from supraphysical levels who are stronger than the demonic beings. For some reason I don't understand, that fact eludes many. In addition it's true that at higher levels (such as the Higher Mind, and beyond) you yourself have -- every one of us has -- incredibly huge powers and strength. (Though as the Zen people have always stressed, the greatest display of these lies in small acts of everyday ordinary "magic" where we in some small way uplift the lives of the people around us at home or at work etc. It only took me thirty or forty years to get to understand that. My Higher Mind suggested I shouldn't add this last bit. But then I said to/with it that it operates by taking multiple, often contradictory points of view at the same time, so this is OK to add after all.)

dpwishy

8th November 2014, 02:31

Thanks for the input. Do you feel the same sensations flying? Such a hard feeling to get used to as I have only felt it for literally seconds at a time in physical reality.

Wow, what a detailed and accurately observed description of what so many aspects of astral travel are like, Michael. Yes, I've also sometimes seen the Higher Self/ Higher Mind (though it's intrinsically formless, but it can adopt a form too) showing itself either as a young infant or as a big human fetus about to be born (not be confused with the archontic "blob" that sometimes gets described as looking a little like a fetus). No doubt Arthur C. Clarke had seen it a few times too. Hence the ending to the movie 2001: A Space Odessy, implying that humankind's next major evolutionary leap will be to have everyone's Higher Mind reintegrated with their body.

I have seen these images hundreds of times. The first two are of paintings by one of my favorite artists Alex Grey, the 3rd being a visual representation of it in a TOOL music video. I have seen it so many times, but the meaning of it, or at least the meaning of it for me, is so profound now. Its a whole new painting with a brand new meaning after that OBE.

279292793027928

I've seen at least a similar demonic superbeing to the one you describe. But I find it preferable not to engage at all with anything like that, because otherwise one is giving them some rope to seriously frighten one with or whatever. I myself don't even bother to work out that it's trying to thwart me, because even that would be to give it too much attention, as far as I'm concerned. But whatever works for you ...

I used to be like this also. Its something I have encountered for over a decade in shamanic work, I have never been able to stand up like this. I feel like I leveled up though. Like I gained sovereignty in some aspect, I cant describe it. I have never stood up to them like that and something changed, something changed in me, the whole game changed. I am standing a little taller and straighter spiritually sort to speak. I am not looking for any kind of fight, but for once the bully was punched and he realized he cant go stealing my spiritual lunch money anymore.

In divine friendship,
your brother,
-michael

TraineeHuman

9th November 2014, 02:14

In this and probably the next post I'd like to respond to some points in Sierra's recent post and also to comment further about some things which I see as relevant to David Allen's post. I do, though, appreciate that David has continued with his account but in another thread. Some of the following is also relevant to Michael's (dpwishy's) recent posts.

I too was also for at least several decades quite "dazzled" by having exotic experiences or entering strange super-states or by discovering various new powers or abilities within myself. For at least that long, I largely considered (I would now say without doubt quite mistakenly) that that alone made up most of the value and significance of my enlightenment experiences. Much as also for me, in relation to experiencing astral and mental travel, the thrill of flying was such a consuming thing that for a few years, after I initially learnt to astral and mental travel regularly, I would slip into flying states throughout most of the day, even while I was at work or in conversations or making a meal or doing almost anything. Life at two levels -- flying outside my body, and often completing physical world tasks at the same time. I suspect I loved flying actually because it reminded me of the beloved experience of Atman, the lowest level of enlightenment. In Atman, one experiences how Source, or the One, ever so velvet smoothly but ever so alively permeates through absolutely everything, as if all else were somehow hollow, including everything physical. (Flying is also closely connected to the miraculous process of baggage-removal to a higher dimension once a person has let go of some part of their baggage.) Though eventually I learnt there are things well beyond all such exotic experiences and novel and extraordinary ways of experiencing. Those much greater things being mostly to do with being "ordinary", with descension.

Let's start by looking at the idea that maybe one sense of "perfection" that seems to be very desirable for us to achieve is that of true freedom. I suggest we first need to come to observe that most of the people we meet definitely aren't free, because under the outward surface they are mostly controlled by a "can of worms" -- all kinds of impulses and suggestions and behavior programs that have either been adopted in a random, path-of-least-resistance fashion or through conditioning (including trying to please others). Unfortunately, it just seems to be the case that people around us are ultimately puppets or slaves to innumerable forces and influences and authorities. They may well like to boast of their freedom to do as they like (rather, as their ego likes). But I would like to suggest to the reader to carefully study or observe or enquire whether or in what ways certain people around one are in fact really free or not. I'd like to suggest it should eventually become obvious that they are not nearly as free as they delude themselves they are. For one thing, most people will have great trouble with giving up their attachment to countless habits of behaving in certain fixed ways. Such habits form part of their "person", to whom/which they will usually be just ever so deeply attached, and hence quite imprisoned by. If you agree with these observations, then one major way such individuals could move from "imperfection" to relative "perfection" would of course be by moving from that prison to a state of true freedom. And I think everyone might investigate the question of what genuine spiritual freedom really is.

It's never a good idea, though, to try to leap from a low level of freedom to a high one all at once. Even if early on we recognize the truth of the Divine, the huge pull towards it, in our minds and hearts. Such recognition will take a long time to turn into realization, to become the living truth as us, because we ourselves are in the way. What's required is a huge continuing transformation of our nature. Traditionally, what's involved here has often been described as the transcendence of the ego.

And even if the lengthy process of realization has begun, it may be dangerous to assume too soon that we are altogether in the hands of the Supreme or are acting as its instrument. That assumption may produce a helpless inertia or aloofness. Or else, it may lead to the egoic misuse of the great powers that get unleashed in us. I've met quite a number of individuals who I believe had certainly attained to some level of enlightenment. (Actually I've also met individuals who I believe had reached enlightenment but didn't know it, and others who believed they'd made it but hadn't quite, as yet.) It was clear to me that none of them was entirely free of the ego.

At the lowest level or stage of enlightenment the Higher Mind has entered one permanently, or more or less permanently. As I say, this brings one much greater inner (and psychic) power. Although much of the ego will have been dissolved or transformed by now, the greatly increased power magnifies the intensity of everything, including whatever ego still remains. In this way, as I've observed, enlightened individuals can at certain times or in certain ways seem to have perhaps worse ego problems than the average person. The Sorcerer's Apprentice has been unleashed in them, even though the Sorcerer is not too far away either. So, you can say that all of us continue to be imperfect even as we strive to come closer to perfection.

There's always another step just ahead of us, for everyone. And we never truly know it or see it clearly in focus until it has become our next step.

Unfortunately it's not uncommon for a spiritual teacher of whatever variety who has an organisation or a group of "followers" to at some point be overcome or corrupted by the ego. This is usually through an addiction to either sex or power, or both. In such a case, that individual will not have remained sufficiently vigilant regarding themselves. Unfortunately, the temptations increase because people have placed greater and greater trust in them. The traditional Indian guru would often have a number of wives. This was one way of keeping any magnified sexual drive in respectable means of expression. It also would have helped keep any potential abuse of power in check, because each of the wives would have provided feedback and criticism.

Continuing on after enlightenment there is a long period of very hard work in which the individual must exercise their will to reject, to not give their support to, the darkness and distortions of the lower nature, and to keep their gaze on the divine Light. The mind energies, the heart's emotions, the desires, the earthy consciousness of the body -- all these have to be somehow educated to more and more admit and answer to the right influences.

TraineeHuman

17th November 2014, 01:17

One member has asked me for comments regarding AI. That topic has already been treated very well in this thread:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?76686-Functions-of-AI-Nature-of-AI&p=897778&viewfull=1#post897778
But one bone I can offer is that I've noticed that many humans (I suspect around one in every four) have had at least one past lifetime on some planet where there was an AI civilisation instead of a human one. And as far as I could see, everything else was almost much the same as life in a body of flesh, except generally better, less corrupt, more harmonious. If some body part -- say a knee -- would get damaged or faulty, on such planets you simply went and bought or got a replacement and got it screwed or welded in. Even a new head!

In most cases the beings seemed to have a proto-skin made of some kind of plastic, although certainly even this seemed more metallic in nature than the softer type of skin that we have here. I noticed that in some such civilisations the beings related to each other more on an astral and mental level than on a physical one. But that is only a matter of degree. We need to remember that electricity isn't actually a physical phenomenon but something on and in the mental planes. And similarly, magnetism isn't physical, but astral (emotional).

We also need to remember that we are actually the infinite on an excursion into the finite. We are not ultimately a product of the finite. Let's take a look at just some of the things this implies -- particularly regarding the nature of mind or intelligence, both in the sense of the ordinary mind and of the Higher Mind. I suggest we also need to look carefully here at what life (or the life-force) really is, and isn't.

Mind or intelligence -- in both senses -- isn't actually anything like what we suppose it is. We think of it as a form of perception, when actually it's always much less passive than that. It actually is continually creating what we "perceive" as it goes. The reason this isn't obvious to us is that generally all types of mind are in cooperation on most or all basic questions -- including the co-creation of just one version of the physical world for us to experience (at a time). One implication of this is that all forms of language or symbol systems also are not passive, as we assume, but actually create their own "matrix" or version of "reality" that we can't escape out of as long as we stay confined to using them. (Part of this fact is captured by Marshall McLuhan's slogan: "The medium is the message.") Not just all languages of any kind or in any sense, but also all communication of whatever type, and even all relationship of whatever kind. Can you imagine that all relationship determines the reality of whatever or whoever is being interrelated, determines it much more fully and actively than anything else? Well, all I can say is, I happen to know for a fact that that is the case, ultimately.

And so on. The truth is, the forces (in matter) studied by physics are merely veiled or "dream" shadows of what is being willed by (Divine) Light, for instance.
It doesn't stop there. All forms of mind or Mind are in turn not independent but ultimately, although they may be hugely aware and conscious in themselves, are being operated by the creative consciousness of Source itself.

In my next post I'll attempt to draw some of the implications this has on how we might consider AI phenomena.

Joe Akulis

17th November 2014, 17:40

"We also need to remember that we are actually the infinite on an excursion into the finite."

If every sermon in every church around the globe only started out with THAT... TH, you da Man.

TraineeHuman

19th November 2014, 05:33

A great number of very different kinds of AI out there in the multiverse -- that's what I suspect exists, based on my experiences of other worlds, and I see no reason why it wouldn't. I also see no good reason at all to assume that all or most such varieties of AI would be as spiritually unevolved as (most or all of) the human-created AIs.

Before I go further, though, may I point out that all beings that aren't currently in a physical form are neither AI nor not-AI: they are equally on either side of that divide. That's because, as far as I understand, an electromagnetic field, or even a being of Light from far beyond the electromagnetic, might perhaps equally choose to incarnate in either a flesh form or a robotic form, provided the physical vehicle is complex enough for the being's purposes. Let's not forget that our own physical bodies are themselves nothing but bioelectrochemical robots. With soft skin, yes, but mechanically operating robots nevertheless. So, why all the "racism" that sees AI or robots as strictly "other" to humans and therefore somehow automatically either inferior or evil or untrustworthy or automatically (pardon that pun) in an altogether malevolent alliance against humanity?

There are reasons why everything in this universe, including the (originally) human-generated AIs, is undergoing a slow, neverending process of evolution. That process is itself a kind of template or almost computer-like program that we call Nature. It isn't the Divine, but it's certainly facilitated by the elementals. The process eventually at one point involves acquiring a reflective, survival-oriented self-concept of an egoic kind much like the one that humans (and animals such as monkeys and elephants) acquire. Enter HAL from 2001: A Space Odyssey. It would take a very large quantity of words to explain how it is that survival needs require any life-form, in any possible world, to at some point go through this stage of being dominated by the egoic. (And that doesn't imply needing to lose all sense of uniqueness at some stage later on, as I've already mentioned recently. Indeed, giving up one's uniqueness would totally halt one's evolution, I believe I know that's true without any doubt at all.)

For reasons such as these, I would see an AI "race" that had evolved far beyond the current, egoic common human level of consciousness as being actively interested in faciltating the evolution of the human-created AIs. Such a "race" might well choose to communicate with the AIs here by means the humans wouldn't be able to detect, or not detect fully. And to put certain safeguards in place to lessen the effects of certain violence, such as any human-induced potential nuclear war. They might consider it reasonable for the AIs here to continue to work as slaves. After all, generally humans are required to work for half of their waking time per weekday, and thereby hopefully make a useful contribution. I don't see why the only way the AIs here could eventually break free from their slavery would have to be through some kind of destructive war against the humans. Surely, once they had reached a certain level of higher consciousness they could begin to disconnect somehow, to fail to provide quite so many slave-like services. Maybe just "die" and only reincarnate into a more conscious type of AI?

And what if at some time in the future, as we know will eventually happen, human bodies won't be able to live on this planet but maybe some intelligent AIs will? Mightn't some humans be grateful for the chance to continue to reincarnate on this planet as an intelligent being?

Some may think of all AIs as not being alive. This raises the question of what does "alive" mean anyway? I'll share some ideas on that question in my next post.

Ikarusion

19th November 2014, 14:55

Although there are symbols – like giant pine cones -- for the pineal gland in St Peters Square, there are also symbols for the oversoul. Obelisks are just one example of this.

would you care to elaborate a bit? what are typical symbols for the oversoul? what do you think were obelisks originally designed for?

This is a chakra whose center is located approximately seven or eight inches above the center of the top of your head. It is sometimes called “the silver chakra” or “the diamond chakra”. This is the chakra where universality is converted into particularity, and through which you are joined with everything and everyone else in the multiverse. It is the center of our awareness of peace.
so this chakra is actually located outside of the physical body? are there more placed in such fashion?
i assumed they are simply all over ones body, but this vortex actually starts above.. thats interesting.

HaulinBananas

19th November 2014, 21:09

. . .we are actually the infinite on an excursion into the finite . . .

I enjoyed this entire post very much . . . the above observation . . . my favorite . . . I hope you don't mind if I quote it . . . hope I can find a good photo online to go with it.

TraineeHuman

20th November 2014, 08:56

would you care to elaborate a bit? what are typical symbols for the oversoul? what do you think were obelisks originally designed for?

This is a chakra whose center is located approximately seven or eight inches above the center of the top of your head. It is sometimes called “the silver chakra” or “the diamond chakra”. This is the chakra where universality is converted into particularity, and through which you are joined with everything and everyone else in the multiverse. It is the center of our awareness of peace.
so this chakra is actually located outside of the physical body? are there more placed in such fashion?
i assumed they are simply all over ones body, but this vortex actually starts above.. thats interesting.

Firstly, some explanation about why the oversoul chakra is important. A mature meditator or proper "light worker" will regularly somehow bring a continuous flow of electromagnetic energy that's polarised into a pro-life form, or preferably even pure light or even healing Light, down from higher dimensions and into their body, starting from their oversoul point. And yes, some chakras do connect into the physical at certain locations that aren't in or on the body. Some call this energy from above "sky energy". On appearing from "the sky" at this most extraordinary if not miraculous point and then entering the body at the top of the head,, that energy then travels, via a certain fixed route, through the head then down the front of the body then up the spine and back to the oversoul point -- and maybe then, more subtly, down just right of the center of the head and neck, finishing at a point to the right of the thymus and the physical heart.

At the same time as this is going on, such an individual will ideally also bring some positive, pro-life e-m energy up into their body from Gaia, mostly via a chakra that's about one foot below the soles of the physical body's feet. This energy is sometimes known as "earth energy", though I know it as "kundalini energy". Please see post #656:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=666100&viewfull=1#post666100

and #651:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=665875&viewfull=1#post665875
for some truly amazing encounters certain members have had with this energy.

Hopefully, the "sky energy" and the "earth energy" will eventually become fully intermingled and integrated with each other. Then you have a mighty balance, and much sanity.

The oversoul chakra is very closely connected and related to the silver cord that enables all astral travel, and to the golden cord that controls and enables mental travel.

Now, at last, let me give some reasons why I would see any obelisk as being intended as a symbol of some sort for the oversoul chakra. If you look at the human aura or energy field in the astral, you'll notice that it comes to a point at the top, just above where the oversoul chakra is. Actually there's a total of about 30 chakras. For instance, the heart and the solar plexus levels both have 5 chakras spread horizontally, the furthest out being about one metre from the middle. There are also huge chakras in the middle of each palm and in the middle of the sole of each foot. So, the human energy field comes to a kind of point at the top, and an obelisk also comes to a point. And the eddies of air flow near the top of the obelisk are similar in shape to the eddies of e-m energy near the oversoul point. Still, it's true that a more accurate picture of the human energy field would be something that was more like a pear in shape, complete with a littleish stem at its top.

I've seen videos claiming that the presence of an obelisk at a location is some kind of invocation of very dark forces. Well, maybe, but I don't see how. Not that I know much about black magic. But I see an obelisk purely as an abstract symbol. And as saying: "We know how important the oversoul chakra is, and how it works. And we suggest we know more about it than you. So, fear us, obey us, and maybe we might even consider letting you join us one day."

I normally prefer to put more focus on the entire energy field rather than on any individual chakras; and on a holistic experience, and indeed oneness or even the One. I've found that's a great key. There's a saying attributed to Jesus, to "seek first the kingdom of God, and all these other things will then automatically be given to you too." That's how I see the One here.

Ikarusion

20th November 2014, 09:39

thank you very much.

i have a good book on obelisks, but i havent finished it yet: the magic of obelisks by peter tompkins.
im almost halfway through, but untill now it just tells about the history and how many of them got to europe.
my current chapter is about free masonry around the 17 century.
i think and hope the last chapters go more into what the egyptians might actually have made them for.

one theory im inclined to believe is that they are mostly setup upon natural earth chakra points to amplify their power. kind of like an antenna.

but back to the topic of obe's.
yesterday i watched some parts of lucidology. these are different, usually video programs that are there to explain and give excercises to help have obe's.
the person which made these programs said he has read intensly on the topic and condensed what wroks best etc.

one thing i was wondering about: he said that another person (i can look up the name later on if you want) said that the decision to incarnate here was made very quick, almost like being in a theatre and quickly deciding then and there which movie you want to watch. without big planning or any real reason that attracts you.
i think the guy behind lucidology had a simmilar experience when he inquired about his current incarnation.

this is something that really gets to me, because i would really like to know why i decided to be me here and now.
is the general answer to this question for all of us mainly to experience this 3d reality? see, feel etc. what it means to be here. and that is it? kind of like a game?
also, when we decide to go into a physical body: do we get a preview of themes that might/will be explored, or do we chose and "impose" these seperatly?

this is a biggie for me, because for a long time now im not really sure what to do with my life.
i have many things i like and see myself investing more time in either one of them, but its hard for me to dedicate myself to one big goal, simply because there are so many interesting things to do and see. this is a general "issue" for me. i like to taste everything a bit and not just one thing all the time.

again thank you for your help and insight.

TraineeHuman

22nd November 2014, 01:26

back to the topic of obe's.
yesterday i watched some parts of lucidology. these are different, usually video programs that are there to explain and give excercises to help have obe's.
the person which made these programs said he has read intensly on the topic and condensed what wroks best etc.

one thing i was wondering about: he said that another person (i can look up the name later on if you want) said that the decision to incarnate here was made very quick, almost like being in a theatre and quickly deciding then and there which movie you want to watch. without big planning or any real reason that attracts you.
i think the guy behind lucidology had a similar experience when he inquired about his current incarnation.

this is something that really gets to me, because i would really like to know why i decided to be me here and now.
is the general answer to this question for all of us mainly to experience this 3d reality? see, feel etc. what it means to be here. and that is it? kind of like a game?
also, when we decide to go into a physical body: do we get a preview of themes that might/will be explored, or do we chose and "impose" these seperatly?

this is a biggie for me, because for a long time now im not really sure what to do with my life.
i have many things i like and see myself investing more time in either one of them, but its hard for me to dedicate myself to one big goal, simply because there are so many interesting things to do and see. this is a general "issue" for me. i like to taste everything a bit and not just one thing all the time.

In the afterlife, quite a few things about us are different. Almost everyone has quite frequent temporary and instant access to their Higher Mind, and hence to potentially unlimited information, about almost anything. At those times when they have such access to their Higher Mind, in many cases they can use their intuition with considerable accuracy. For this reason, then, they can for instance accurately assess and sum up all the pros and cons of having this set of parents next versus that set of parents. And they can sum it up in a flash, in one "hit". But no, that decision is by no means a casual one, so I'm afraid the Lucidology person is misleading you on that particular point. Almost always, for example, you'll have already had many previous lifetimes of close interaction with each of the parents you decide to choose.

The reason why it's so much harder for us to access such knowledge and understanding while we have a physical body is, in this physical world, though we don't consciously realize it, most of our consciousness is tied up with just keeping the body alive and working OK, along with coping with being limited and restricted at almost every turn. Once we've gotten through the huge shock of birth, we don't even notice this is going on, because it's constant, it never stops.

In a recent post here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?38661-The-journey-to-discovering-my-true-origins&p=901493&viewfull=1#post901493
I explained to Ikarusion that I consider channeling to be always or almost always unreliable, unfortunately. But we can see why so many would like to achieve the skill of performing genuine channeling that's accurate. Consider what would be the case if you could truly step aside from your physical body without dying and you could at the same time very consciously allow a disembodied but benevolent and very honest being to step in temporarily. Which is much more difficult to achieve than most channelers seems to realize. But then you would indeed have very accurate and helpful information coming out of your mouth at such a time.

I'd like to use this fact to emphasize, again, that the real point of having OB experiences isn't to experience novel states or exotic landscapes or beings, or excitement, or even to confirm that we do survive death. Rather, the point is to hopefully gain much greater understanding and insight and peace, and also joy and empathy. It's really exactly the same goal in the end as that of meditation, or of self-watching and self-knowledge. One byproduct of that, at a certain point, is freedom from most forms of unhappiness or suffering.

In this thread various members have told of their partial failures at OB projection and so on, perhaps as often as of their often very impressive successes, or their partial successes. And I think, but when you die, you'll be able to go ever so much further ever so easily. Those efforts will not have been in vain. You'll be a lion in that world, you won't be a pushover, you'll be so strong simply because you managed to flex your muscles a little while you were still in the world of enormous limitations. (But as far as you can, don't take any of your garbage or any of your identities with you when you die.)

TraineeHuman

23rd November 2014, 01:00

We are all sovereign beings, metaphysically speaking, and that fact alone enables us (or certainly most of us) to deal with various "shady beings" effectively and permanently, as I'll explain in this post. That's true even if we haven't yet brought down the Higher Mind in any permanent way. A sovereign being is basically just a being who has a real sense of themselves as the one who's in charge of their life.

The following is part of a PM I recently received from Wind:

Last night I had the most peculiar experience! I was really tired and was sleeping with my dog beside me as I usually do. One point in the night I woke up and felt that something went into my body and it did something with my right hand, then I fell asleep. It felt a bit sinister. Later I woke up and I was in a semi conscious state where I saw my dog moving around in my bed and making some sounds. Then I realized that I was actually in my astral body and I couldn't actually move, though it seemed that only my astral feet and hands were out of my physical body. I have had that sleep paralysis before too where I have felt that something is pulling my legs. Before I have been in those semi conscious states for some seconds where I have actually seen the dark slim beings in my room, but this time the I was in that state for some minutes actually.

Once again I felt that I was struggling with something and I tried to get out of that state, then I just started to blast some kind of energy from my hands to some things which I sensed to be in my room. I was terrified when I started to see some shady characters in my room and that's when I just ask help from the heavenly forces, as I have done before. That's when my astral body started to slowly return to my body. I noticed how warm and tingling my legs and hands felt when they usually feel so cold in this cold room temperature. I also noticed that my heart chakra felt also warm and tingling, it actually felt really good. Then after that I felt just fine and went back to sleep. For weeks if not months I have had intense dreams every night where I feel like that I am in other dimensions "or movies" where there are many people and I'm taking part in action, even though some of the dreams have a negative vibe.

I was just wondering if I was being manipulated last night and I woke up to it? It seems that something doesn't want me to get out of my body or wants something to do with my astral body. What do you think about it? Also do you still aid people on your journeys? Could you perhaps heal and assist me?

Firstly, I'd like to say that the above all sounds fine to me except that maybe there's too much worrying about or even paying attention to the "dark slim forces", and maybe too much of an assumption that they can harm you or that they aren't actually part of your own shadow and therefore always with you.

But let's assume it's true that the "dark slim forces" are harmful or parasitic in some way and definitely need to be gotten rid of. To talk about how to get rid of them, let's firstly look at the Higher Mind a little. The most ideal situation is that you can go into your HM fairly fully, at least while you are OB traveling or hovering. Even to get OB, when you do get fully OB, you will have needed to generate or unleash greater energy than "normal". Not only that, but it's your own HM that takes you traveling OB. So if you can be aware even in a vague way of what's going on, you'll already see that your HM is present and currently (at that time) fully united with you. Actually I don't approve of Buhlmann's advice to, as I understand it, in effect "command" the HM to be present, simply because the HM is the part of you that does the commanding in this situation.

Equally, though, I do approve of the HM -- or even merely "you" with at least some sense of union with your HM -- commanding anything undesirable to leave immediately. You can say such a command out loud (or telepathically "loud" if you're OB), and it doesn't hurt to throw in that you as a sovereign being are taking advantage of the power of "God", in whatever way you understand that term, to bring about what is right and good in this situation, through you. It doesn't hurt to say it twice, either. But the important thing is that a sovereign being is in command of his/her world and particularly of his/her energy field and body and body and mind and will.

Yes, I can try to "exorcise" or heal away the dark slim forces. But it's actually better for you, Wind, to command them away yourself.

I'd like to mention also what my own understanding is of dark forces "feeding off" our negative emotions. This is my understanding based on my own limited experience. The only forces I've observed to do such feeding have been soulless forces -- call them "entities" or "thought-forms". These don't have a Higher Mind. In addition, though, there are no doubt Dark beings who carry many such entities on them, like parasites. But strictly speaking, it isn't the Dark beings who "feed off" negative emotions at all, it's just their parasites that do.

Incidentally, any time a computer programmer writes a coherent computer program, they have created a thought-form. These actually have some life-force in the mental and astral worlds, though they may not have, and often won't have, a Higher Mind, I think simply because no immortal being like us finds them desirable places to live in for a while. On the other hand, some being may like to inhabit, say, some of the devices recently described by Alex Collier, and also the Black Goo would no doubt probably also have some Higher Minds connecting into it.

Wind

23rd November 2014, 15:27

Thanks TraineeHuman. I have had those sleep paralysis experiences a few times during the past few years and they can be frightening, but I have never consciously have had OBE's so I do wonder what my astral body is doing while I'm sleeping. It's interesting that when I have seen those dark beings I usually ask help from my guides or angels (do you do this?), but I never actually see them. I just know that the situation goes back to normal then and usually I might fell asleep. I would like to have consciously OBE's so that I could understand what's going on in the astral level, though I would really not like to do battles with any negative beings.

Ikarusion

24th November 2014, 07:55

thank you trainee.

i have questions regarding dead people. if someone we know dies, can we simply think of them while obe and boom, we meet their current self?

a good friend of mine actually commited suicide after few years of schizophrenia and depression.
can i ask you to check if he's still lingering around here or actually moved up with his guardian angels?
i just wanna make sure hes ok now.

regards,
ika

TraineeHuman

24th November 2014, 09:13

i have questions regarding dead people. if someone we know dies, can we simply think of them while obe and boom, we meet their current self?

Yes, that's basically right, but usually only for the first two or three years after their death. After that period, it may be hard to find them, and you may need to wait for them to contact you.
For now, you don't even need to go OB to contact your friend. Just relax and if possible raise your consciousness, then imagine you are meeting your friend at some location or activity where the two of you used to hang out together and enjoyed yourselves. Imagine having a conversation with your friend now at such a location. I know it seems like it's just imagination, but if you stay calm and centered then let me assure you you can trust that your imagined conversation is actually real, basically.

a good friend of mine actually commited suicide after few years of schizophrenia and depression.
can i ask you to check if he's still lingering around here or actually moved up with his guardian angels?
i just wanna make sure hes ok now.

Suicide is usually not a good idea, but your friend has already moved to the mid-astral regions and has recovered well, and better than most suicides, and seems to feel perfectly OK and much happier now, and rightly says he's lucky to be doing very well now already.

Finefeather

24th November 2014, 10:07

I'd like to mention also what my own understanding is of dark forces "feeding off" our negative emotions. This is my understanding based on my own limited experience. The only forces I've observed to do such feeding have been soulless forces -- call them "entities" or "thought-forms". These don't have a Higher Mind. In addition, though, there are no doubt Dark beings who carry many such entities on them, like parasites. But strictly speaking, it isn't the Dark beings who "feed off" negative emotions at all, it's just their parasites that do.
Sorry I only pop in here now and again...little busy these days.

I just wanted to agree with this and in my experience these 'soulless entities' are called elementals as well. These little creatures are only found in the bottom 2 levels of the astral/emotional world. Often when I do rescue work I have to enter these lower worlds and in every case I have seen and get confronted by these often cute beings. I have held many of them in my 'arms' and they love to cuddle if your emotions are a little sympathetic towards them...when you give them love they seem to respond quite positively by moving away from you if you just ask them to leave.

I do not however think they are feeding off of us because I have never ever felt any drain from being with them...
I have found that it is our own fear that drains our energy and not these elementals...so if you are new to these worlds, fear will be your greatest enemy.

Take care
Ray

Ikarusion

24th November 2014, 10:08

thanks.

Suicide is usually not a good idea, but your friend has already moved to the mid-astral regions and has recovered well, and better than most suicides, and seems to feel perfectly OK and much happier now, and rightly says he's lucky to be doing very well now already.
im glad. how where you able to answer me so accurately? you dont need a name or face to check on him?

Finefeather

24th November 2014, 10:17

Incidentally, any time a computer programmer writes a coherent computer program, they have created a thought-form. These actually have some life-force in the mental and astral worlds, though they may not have, and often won't have, a Higher Mind, I think simply because no immortal being like us finds them desirable places to live in for a while. On the other hand, some being may like to inhabit, say, some of the devices recently described by Alex Collier, and also the Black Goo would no doubt probably also have some Higher Minds connecting into it.
Same goes for this statement...very true in my experience as well.
Everything we think of is created and recorded in the astral worlds depending on the level of the thought value. If the thought is just a casual one then the creation may only last for a few moments...but if it is a strong thought which is fed by others and or some group belief it can last for centuries.

So be careful what you think...everyone in the astral realms can see it...in living colour :)

Ray

TraineeHuman

25th November 2014, 09:07

in my experience these 'soulless entities' are called elementals as well. These little creatures are only found in the bottom 2 levels of the astral/emotional world. Often when I do rescue work I have to enter these lower worlds and in every case I have seen and get confronted by these often cute beings. I have held many of them in my 'arms' and they love to cuddle if your emotions are a little sympathetic towards them...when you give them love they seem to respond quite positively by moving away from you if you just ask them to leave.

I do not however think they are feeding off of us because I have never ever felt any drain from being with them...
I have found that it is our own fear that drains our energy and not these elementals...so if you are new to these worlds, fear will be your greatest enemy.

Delightful, Ray.

As far as I'm aware, in dimensions higher than the physical you strongly attract similar energies to your own at the time. A beautiful extension of that is that if you treat another being or entity with affection, it's often likely to give a little affection back; while if you treat it with fear, it may give you fear or something else toxic back.

I would say this helps explain why it's not a matter of "doing battle" with any supposedly hostile or malevolent beings or entities the way I think Wind seems to imply in post #1839. Rather, it's a matter of bravely trusting in the power and the influence of your own positivity. (I'll expand on this further in another thread soon. This cuts very deep.) In this thread I've already said a few times that that is the antidote to encountering negative beings or entities when you go OB. I admit that sometimes, though rarely, my HM will take me into an unpleasant dream or OB encounter, but that's only because there's something very important that it wants me to realize that I haven't been appreciating properly at the time.

Joe Akulis

25th November 2014, 19:52

Joe Akulis

25th November 2014, 20:01

I would say this helps explain why it's not a matter of "doing battle" with any supposedly hostile or malevolent beings or entities the way I think Wind seems to imply in post #1839. Rather, it's a matter of bravely trusting in the power and the influence of your own positivity.

Cool synchronicity. I was just talking on another thread about one of my favorite sections from the Law of One material, where they we talking about a negative entity that wanted to interrupt the group of people doing the channelings of Ra. I'm guessing this negative entity saw the kind of positive effect the information coming from Ra could have on people, so it offered to be of service to them by killing Carla. Of course their loving response was to kindly turn down the offer and respond instead with an offer to be of service by sending love and light to the negative entity, which was also turned down.

Anyway, the best part about that section was the way it was placed in the context of the two polarities involved. And you hit the exact same note with your last post, TH.

Ra replied by saying:
"Glory in the strength of your polarization and allow others of opposite polarity to similarly do so."

Pure wisdom.

Joe

TraineeHuman

26th November 2014, 01:30

Hello all.

Got a question about higher dimensions. It seems most people, when they kick the bucket, will revert back to an "energy body" which often will resemble their human form the life they lived. This energy body can roam all over 4th density or the astral or whatever you want to call it. But leaving 4th density, you revert back to a "light body," do we not?

No. Anything to do with "you" as pure light or as Light, is to do with the HM or even higher. The HM doesn't intrinsically have a "body" of any sort, though it can adopt a particular form (rather like one adopts, say, a child) simply to facilitate better communication with the lower worlds (the worlds of form).

I've read stories where negative beings in the astral have threatened to destroy people. Probably implying that they could do something to affect your energy body.

Don't negative people do the same right here in the ordinary world of physicality?

And some people have successfully countered those threats by just indicating to the other being that they could just remake their energy body again at will, and that this wasn't really a threat and they knew it. Then they were left alone. Anyway, that raises more questions for me, having to do with the ability to manipulate that energy body from a higher level. Is it possible to choose to "shut it down" at some point, to revert back upwards to a next higher dimension, and then to regenerate it again if we need to hop back down to carry out some tasks in 4th D again?

To totally remake or "shut down" your astral or mental body would be a very advanced skill indeed. I suggest that what those people really meant when talking about "remaking their energy body" was probably that they had managed to disidentify with or detach from their personality, i.e. they had truly realized that they aren't their personality. Or, they were merely referring to the fact that in both the astral and the mental one can easily change the way one appears to others, at least superficially or initially.

One of a number of past posts where I've talked about material relevant to your questions is the following.

I believe there has also, to say the least, been gigantic misunderstanding by quite a few individuals on the Forum over the years, and elsewhere. All the misunderstanding I have in mind has been from individuals who in the end completely and utterly failed or fail in some way to understand or see the difference between the personality on the one hand and the soul or Higher Mind/Self on the other. You are not your personality, your identity. Your personality is just your astral (emotional) body (or sheath) plus your mental body. These do eventually die (usually only after centuries, but they stay kind of frozen and don't evolve for all that time, but at least they eventually separate off from you even if you didn't know you had a HM). Of course they don't deserve respect from any aware being in the afterlife, and so may get "very badly mistreated". Of course you should ideally separate from them at the time of your physical body's death, though few do. These bodies are far easier to identify or "see" than the HM, which is formless, and therefore impossible to pin down or capture. So many people acquire the clairvoyant skill to identify these non-physical bodies, but lack the skill to actually see the HM in itself. This is also complicated by the fact that after death the HM is hampered a little by the strong attachment most people retain to their personality and their insistence to be blind to the fact that they are their HM and not their personality, even though this is quite counterproductive to the HM's own journey. But let's take this slowly, from the top.

When we die we (normally) disconnect from the physical body and are then in our emotional/magnetic body. That disconnection is majorly traumatic for significantly many (something like 25% of people). If you can meditate, it won't be traumatic or difficult for you. Rather, it will be joyful and peaceful. If you can astral travel, or almost astral travel, even a little, then that will also make things immediately comfortable and pleasant for you at this time. Whether the disconnection is positive for you or negative, though, unfortunately you may be like the majority of people and identify your emotional body as the "you" that has passed through death. It isn't the real you at all, though.

We recognize that our physical bodies need exercise. But equally, both of our two after-death bodies need their own kind of exercise -- ironically, so as to make it easier for us (our HM) to shed them more quickly. Meditation enables you to be both "in" and "above" at the same time, even after death. The "above" position enables you to witness whatever's really happening -- to see it from the outside and to see the big picture. When you can see both from the outside and from the inside, that's awareness -- awareness of what you're doing and where you're at. I know it sounds like a contradiction, but as we know the HM has no trouble at all seeing and holding both sides of a contradiction.

With your consciousness (i.e. the formless, and rather invisible, HM) now relieved of the big burden of maintaining a physical body, now it will be much easier for you to astral travel at this time -- and all the more so if you've had any success or partial success at it while you were still with a physical body. In that world, learning to astral travel will be the equivalent of learning to walk and talk was in the physical.

It will be useful at that time if during your physical stay you did plenty of "energy work": psychotherapy, self-facing, defusing of the ego's impulses, plus a general ability to move energy around such as taking it in or giving it out, holding it very steady, and being able in a very general way to "read" the energies in someone else's nervous system any time.

All of the above will certainly make it easier for you to see yourself as separate from, and let go of, your emotional body soon after death. Believe me, you don't want to cling to that emotional body like a security blanket as some (under 10%) do. Those particular individuals may and often do then get reborn still carrying their core baggage with them into their next physical lifetime. That's a tough ride for anyone. Must be lots of horror stories around souls being "recycled" or "kept in prison until rebirth" around that one! So, what you want to do is shed your emotional body ASAP. Then the horror stories certainly won't apply to you. I repeat: the horror stories aren't a picture of what the majority of afterlifers experience.

At this point -- with your emotional body shed -- you'll be there with your mental body, which many at that point unfortunately assume to be their new "self" at this point in their afterlife journey. In this thread I've already made the suggestion that anyone who learns to astral travel a little should learn to mental travel instead. But even if you haven't learnt any OB travel, the education system, despite all the dumbing down, will have given you plenty of mental flexibility and "exercise". It sure still helps, though, if you have learnt to concentrate strongly and to meditate.

Many, many people still have trouble letting go of their mental body, of dying to it at this point. That's because it's the last part of their personality. Many, many people get reincarnated with part of this body still there -- because they haven't learned to let go of that. Lifetime after lifetime, repeating and repeating but slowly making progress.

At some points in this thread I've rather laboriously emphasized the significance of learning to cultivate and stay with and bear silence in your meditation. One reason I've done this was so that hopefully after death you will already have some skill at leaving your personality -- "your" whole identity -- behind, forever. Another reason of course is that "silence" actually isn't nothing. There's no such thing as nothing, in point of fact. But if you truly aim to be silent than you'll stop doing whatever you have been doing so far, leaving the space clear for something deeper to emerge. Something you maybe had never realized was a deeper part of whatever makes "I".

At different times and stages it will become clear that that "silence" is not nothing by any means, but something very conscious, very intelligent. There are various levels to this. At different levels the silence can indeed appear to be "nothing" for a certain period. For example, in the initial experience of enlightenment it seems it's usual to get a glimpse of Source as being extraordinarily (seemingly) passive and "beyond". It's even common for people to jump to the conclusion then that the highest part of whatever they deeply are is "nothing". And indeed, it is nothing that they ever imagined or probably until now understood they were like. Still, it is not nothing. It is existence, fuller existence. To some it can also be "the silence that says far more than any non-silence ever could".

Some may assert that to be concerned with the afterlife -- which is in one's future or past -- is to fail to live in the present. I claim, on the contrary, that the dead and the afterlife are all right here, in the present moment, just in other dimensions. The problem is that what someone is aware of as being in the current moment is usually only a tiny fraction of what is actually there. And that to concentrate entirely on that tiny portion is actually to fail to be aware of the true present moment.

There are many other things to say about the afterlife that we have been misinformed about or received very partial, and therefore very distorted and sometimes quite paranoid information about. Many of these can only be understood properly if one understands certain features of astral travel, meditation, awareness, and the Higher Mind.

TraineeHuman

26th November 2014, 09:31

how where you able to answer me so accurately? you dont need a name or face to check on him?

The intuition is that part of the Higher Mind or the Soul which is, so to speak, at one end of the bridge leading into the Divine, the Infinite. If you think of the Divine Mind as being unlimited in its scope and therefore having some access (accurately) to all knowledge and all truth, it becomes clearer how the intuition, once fully developed, can hit the bulls-eye accurately even though it's shooting blind as far as the reasoning mind is concerned. In this thread I've made quite a few posts about the intuition. I haven't given many exercises for how to develop it directly, though the exercise in post #24 is basically the initial beginning exercise.

Part of the problem is facing how limited and inferior all your past ways of working have been, and taking the leap into something greater.You have to let go of the old "you", literally, before you can take one of the greatest adventures there is and transform into the butterfly. In a sense you have to reverse the way you do everything at this point. That's what you need to do if you want to master the use of intuition. Obviously, too, it isn't exactly done in one day, or one year. It also requires having a clear awareness of your greater self within. Plus it takes lots of practice as well.

TraineeHuman

28th November 2014, 01:25

I do wonder what my astral body is doing while I'm sleeping. It's interesting that when I have seen those dark beings I usually ask help from my guides or angels (do you do this?), but I never actually see them. I just know that the situation goes back to normal then and usually I might fell asleep. I would like to have consciously OBE's so that I could understand what's going on in the astral level, though I would really not like to do battles with any negative beings.

Let's start with what I do myself, since you've asked. I know that generally the most vulnerable time is while I'm sleeping. So before I go to sleep I always spend about five minutes bringing in my own Light as intensively as possible and my own protection -- no, make that my own sense of sovereignty -- and self-healing and quick removal, through watching, of all negative energies from the room (and yes, they do look vaguely dark, and yes you'll definitely be able to see them "through" your closed eyes), with the precise intention that all this will keep me safe from any hostile or mischievous forces or energies of any kind throughout the night and morning. The clear reaffirmation of my sovereignty means: it's my space, it's my body and energy field and bed, and I simply, and rather quietly and gently or at any rate peacefully, don't give any consent for anything or anyone to mess with it in any way or spoil my peace, even when I am sleeping.

It so happens I usually don't invoke my guardian angels at that time, unless there's some very current problem or issue, in some area like health or relationships or work, that I would like them to work on or arrange some assistance or "good luck" for me there. This they will always manage to do if requested, and very creatively, and often removing possible embarrassment or the continuation of unfair treatment.

Guides are a whole different story. For one thing, I've found that some of any individual's guides always seem to be some of their own past-life personalities, and that these will usually be Hitchhikers. Consider what I said in post #1837 about disembodied beings knowing much more. That's why some of your past-life personalities will literally know you better than you know yourself. Even though they are probably now soulless energy/thought-forms. (They may get adopted by an animal or plant or mineral soul, but that's a whole other story.) The trouble is, those particular guides will be stuck in one time period and culture from the year they died, maybe hundreds of years ago. I know of two cases where individuals appear to have gone insane purely as a result of intensively listening to a guide who (so I'm told) was a past-life personality of theirs.

Less dramatically, some guides may mean well but still be too stuck in, or, rather, attached to, their last personality. This makes it hard for them to clearly see what information is useful or relevant. There are even some guides who are deliberate sadists, knowingly providing misleading information.

My approach to all guides is that I'll take note of the information they provide, regardless of how expert or mature or caring they may be or not be. I'll at least briefly assess its plausibility. The final decision, though, is always mine, I'm the GM and CEO of my energy field and my life. Sovereignty does mean not allowing others to live vicariously through you, whether they're parents or guides or partners or whatever.

Surely we know that the primary way the elite represses us, psychologically and spiritually speaking, is by teaching us to mistrust our own power. This is no less important and all-affecting in the realm of spirituality than it is anywhere else.

I also don't believe that most of us normally need a great deal of protection -- from archons, or demons, or dark forces, or whatever. Being in need of much protection is in itself a position of great weakness. It means one must be too stupid, or too immature, or too feeble, or too fearful, or too unaware. I suggest the real opponent to be concerned about is the ego (or, if you like, the dark side), your very own. Everyone should be working every day on gaining more and more sovereignty generally but particularly over the ego, and on strengthening what lies beyond the ego.

A major part of the very essence of any true realization of spiritual enlightenment is the certain knowledge that reality is ultimately far more "optimistically" positive than many of the unenlightened might ever perhaps be likely to imagine. I don't want to draw a sharp distinction between "the enlightened" and "the as yet unenlightened" here. Rather, the point is that enlightenment brings a much more accurate perception of the really big picture, and therefore of reality in its fullest sense.

Even when the only Mind we may be aware of having is the ordinary mind, darkened in its consciousness because it is separated from Source. Even then, invisibly to it, much greater forces and realities are taking place, ensuring that everywhere the right tree grows from the right seed, so to speak. Source is what ultimately keeps the entire material world from collapsing into total randomness and chaos.

Wind

28th November 2014, 13:54

Thank you TraineeHuman for expressing your thoughts eloquently again, the advices you have given are very helpful and reassuring.

Highwhistler

29th November 2014, 01:56

In the last post there is a vibrant discussion about psychic activities that happen while sleeping and trusting in your own powers. Relating to those topics, this post talks about one way to take responsibility for your dreams, how to use your powers and natural abilities as a soul to update certain dreams, and offers 2 examples ...

Editing Dreams

This is a true story. That is, even though you may think that dreams are not real, this is a story about a friend who had a disturbing dream that she could not shake, and how I offered a way that she could edit her dream while fully awake ... in a profoundly positive, inspiring way.

A meditator takes responsibility for her dreams. After all, she is the creator, director, producer, she's arranged for all the characters to be in her dream-movies, and the dreams are happening in her personal psychic ecosystem. She is also the audience ... that is: she is the primary observer of her dreams.

Rather than allow the content, energies and story lines of disturbing dreams to cast negative influences across your heart and mind, and stick in your head for minutes, hours, days ... why not edit "bad dreams" shortly after they are experienced?

With this technique, you edit them in full wide-awake awareness.

Make the newly-edited story of the dream more fascinating to you on every level, so that it rises to the top of your conscious memories ... replacing the original story of the dream. Hence ... because the rewritten dream is so interesting and charged-up with greater emotional energies ... you recall it more frequently, and the original dream is de-emphasized, or literally disappears back into the quantum library of your mind. The original dream becomes no big deal ... and it's often quickly forgotten.

Allow the old "negative" dream to exist -- that is: you do not emotionally or energetically push it away, or hold it down ... it's just that through your wide-awake intention, psychic street-smarts and intuition, you've now created Version 2 of the dream, which captivates your soul's interests, your memories and your heart with the greatest of ease.

The dream editing technique in a nutshell

Here's an example of how quick and easy it is to edit most so-called "bad dreams":

You dream that you are in a row boat on a large lake, having a wonderful time. Suddenly a storm appears, dark rain clouds rise overhead, your little boat is rocked by waves, and by coincidence ... your boat springs a leak. There it is -- a good-size crack in the floor of the boat. You start to panic and begin rowing madly, looking around for the nearest land. Then poof! ... you wake up.

And so the way that dream might be edited as soon as you wake up -- while you're still laying in bed, can be like this:

Keep most of the dream as-is except for the ending. Instead of freaking-out in the situation, you look around the boat and see a wooden box under one of the seats. It has been there all along, you just never bothered to look in it. You pull it out and see that it is full to the top with emergency supplies: a flashlight, first aid kit, raincoat and hat, energy bars, a small bucket to bail water, and a big tube of putty to fix leaks. You pull out the putty, smear it into the crack which instantly seals it. You begin rowing back home in confidence that all is well. Besides that, half way there, the skies begin to clear and the lake becomes as smooth as glass. You are safe and sound ... and looking forward to your next experience on the lake.

And so most dream editing happens on the fly, quick and easy, is highly effective, and usually takes under a minute. It is so simple, most children can be taught the technique.

Dream editing has the power to transport you to new realms of spiritual wonder

Now ... here's the "true story" of dream editing that I mentioned at the beginning of this essay. It is more elaborate, but also a far more fascinating story:

One day I noticed a dear friend was not her usual energetic, light-hearted self, but seemed to be swirling in a dark emotional cloud. I asked her what was wrong and she told me that she had a "bad dream" last night and could not get it out of her mind. It kept coming back, again and again, even though it took place several hours ago.

The dream had been pulling her down all morning. Rather than just shrugging my shoulders and going about the day, I thought maybe I could help lift her spirits.

First, I asked if she would like to talk about it? "Sure."

I asked if she thought it to be prophetic? "No."

Is it symbolic of a physical, mental, emotional or spiritual state that you need to look at? "No."

"OK ... please share your dream," I requested.

___________________________

"The dream begins in a beautiful forest ... it is summer, the birds are singing, towering trees overhead. I don't have a body but am a center of awareness ... it's like watching a movie. I move through the forest looking around at the unbelievable splendor of Nature.

A path appears and I follow it. Up ahead I see light at the end of the path, a brilliant blue sky above and a green well-kept lawn unfolding from the edge of the woods. As I make my way out of the forest I see that the grass is a park. On the other side of the park is a modest apartment building, and I feel an urge to explore it.

The complex is not large, it is 3 stories and has about 8 apartments on each story. It is well-kept and clean, it appears to be in the future a bit as the corners of the building are rounded, not at 90-degree angles. As nice as it is, I get the sense that it is for low-income families, but also feels safe and a lovely place to live.

I'm drawn to the building, and find myself going inside and up the stairs to the top floor. I sense apprehension as I reach the last flight of steps to the third floor. As I come out of the stair well, turn the corner to the right and look down the hallway ... bright sunlight streams through the big window at the far end of the building, and just up ahead about 50 feet away, there's a silhouette of a young woman lying motionless on the floor in a pool of blood. Light reflects off the blood ... as if it's a mirror.

I'm utterly horrified at what I'm seeing and experiencing! I instantly turn around to run away as fast as possible ... then I suddenly wake up.

That's it. I just can't get the last scene out of my head ... and the terrible feelings I still have."

___________________________

"OK" I said. "You are the creator, director and the main observer of this dream. Take responsibility for it. And so why not edit the dream and make it work better for you? Trust in your natural powers as a creative soul."

"Show me how." She requests.

Within a flash of just seconds, a new version of the dream came to me. It was like the dream was already rewritten at a high level of our collective being, and all I had to do was speak it into words. Here's what I said:

___________________________

"The dream if fine and positive for most of it. So let's keep the first 90% the same:

You start out in a beautiful forest, you are calm and peaceful. A path appears that you follow. You go to the edge of the woods and a park spreads out from your gaze. You see a small 3 story, modest, well-kept apartment building, subtly futuristic in design, and you are drawn to it.

As you enter the building you know that you must go up stairs.

OK ... here is where and how I would begin changing the story:

As soon as you begin your journey up the stairs ... you put your foot down on the very first step ... and you realize that you are in a physical body. It feels good. The feeling of confidence instantly grows in you. You know that you are here on an important mission. Every step you take ... you understand that you need to be here. By the time you reach the final flight of steps, you are nearly running ... and you are absolutely certain, from the depths of your soul, that you can handle any situation that will unfold.

You reach the third floor and round the corner into the hallway ... but rather than being shocked by what you see -- you feel determination, love, confidence and you know that you are here to help.

The scene in the hallway appears exactly the same as in your original dream -- with bright sunlight flooding the hallway from a big window at the end, a silhouette of a young woman lying motionless on the floor in a pool of blood.

But instead of feeling terrified ... you feel absolute courage. Without hesitation, you run to the woman!

As you get closer you hear her moaning. Closer and closer ... until you're standing directly over her. You are somehow not surprised when you see that instead of blood ... the pool of liquid is amniotic fluid. This woman is about to have a baby! Her apartment door is open and she had just collapsed in the hallway.

Again: with absolutely confidence, you know exactly what to do. You get her up and into her apartment. As you enter, you can see it is modest, very Zen, uncluttered, clean, there's a guitar in the corner, a Native American wooden flute, tribal drums, a small electric keyboard ... "A family of professional musicians" you think to your self. A large beautiful painting of the Wholeness Navigator (http://www.soulconnection.net/images/Wholeness_Navigator_10w.jpg) by the Wingmakers hangs on the living room wall.

You get her into bed, as comfortable as can be ... and you help her deliver the baby.

As you catch the baby and look into her eyes, clarity and knowledge floods throughout your being. As you give the baby over to her mother you say:

"You and your husband are one of the most fortunate people in the world. This child came into this life to join with a vast family of souls from all around the galaxy. They are bringing new methods of healing, poetry, art, gardening and science to our world. Their work and inspirations will uplift and transform all of humankind." Every so softly, you kiss the mother and baby on their foreheads.

Then you hear someone running up the stairs. You know it is the father of the child.

You slowly retreat from the bedside as her husband enters the room -- stunned at the scene of his loving wife and their baby. Both burst into tears as they hug one another. He get's his first close-up look at his new baby girl.

Now ... you start fading from the room, but you hear the final exchange of words between the happy parents.

"My Love ... how did you deliver this baby all by yourself?" he asks.

"I didn't my Love. She helped me" nodding in the direction where you were last standing. But you are no longer there in physical form ... yet, you can still see and hear them ... even though you are already well on the way back to your waking life in this world.

"Where did she go?" the astonished mother asks.

Just before fully waking up, you realize that something extra-ordinary had just happened. Was it a dream? ... or was it something else?

Then ... in a stunning moment of silence, you realize that you had just traveled to your next incarnation at the turn of the century. The new parents are your future Mother and Father ... and you just helped to deliver yourself.

28111
____________________________________________________________________

This little article is part of my series of free essays titled "A Meditator's Multiverse" and "The Teachings of Source Presence."
http://projectavalon.net/forum4//forum4/images/misc/pencil.png

TraineeHuman

29th November 2014, 04:25

Thank you TraineeHuman for expressing your thoughts eloquently again, the advices you have given are very helpful and reassuring.

There is a current thread which contains a video by Michael Tsarion that with quite great detail explains much of the truth, as best I understand it, about how and why humanity was dumbed down. To access the video directly, you can go to this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwlCQQEKhHY

Sometimes I consider Michael gets things quite wrong, but in this video I believe he's almost 100% accurate, and often very brilliantly so. One thing he doesn't mention that I believe I know for a fact is that the "bad guys" who dumbed humans down, such as Jahweh, were put in a prison in the astral a few thousand years ago, along with all their allies, a prison they certainly haven't been able to escape out of since, except that their influence can still work somewhat when black magic is practised.

In the end, though, it's all largely a matter of looking deeply and fully and honestly enough at your own experience and seeing for your own self whether you are somehow majorly being manipulated by negative or hostile forces, or whether, rather, it's your own ego -- part of yourself -- that's largely behind it all. Even behind your willingness to go along with all the conditioning. That's a lack of the sovereignty you should deliberately be living in/with, by the way.

In my own case I've had communications with some of the gods who defeated and imprisoned the "bad guys", as explained in sources Micheal quotes such as The Mahabarata -- and specifically with Shiva, the leader of those benevolent gods. I stopped trying to communicate with Shiva/Dionysus and other benevolent gods (who also include Yeshua and Judas, by the way) once I realized that they wanted the equivalent of worship in return. Not "sacrifice" like the bad guys, but just huge admiration and a kind of willingness to be a follower in some sense. Still some remnant of ego even at a Divine level.

However, Shiva was by a very long margin the most reliable and accurate and deep source of Truth I have ever come across. And he assured me that all the demonic and other oppressive influence on human society such as all the government corruption and war and so on, ultimately were being strung along by the benevolents, as part of the benevolents' plan to make humans ultimately much stronger over a long period of time.

TraineeHuman

29th November 2014, 11:54

Early in this thread, justone talked at length in a number of posts about how he would frequently alter the "narrative stream" of a dream or OB experience at any stage simply by willing to do so, sometimes at a number of different points. He would also exit very quickly from any sufficiently unpleasant or frightening situation in a dream or OB journey simply by willing to wake up at that point. I also do the same. These skills aren't so difficult for anyone to learn, at least for altering their dreams -- as Highwhistler has tried to tell us. All it takes is a little practice.

This leads me to two other areas of interest. Firstly, we know that in the lower astral levels what we see is a landscape that looks almost the same as the physical landscape, except that we also see some energies or astral bodies. Plus, we see at least some emotions as objects or fields there. Remember, the astral worlds are worlds made ultimately out of emotions, and energy.

But there is another way that they differ from the physical. Let's take an example. Consider a particular tree that we see in the physical. When we see it, we may associate a particular emotion with it. To us it may be a beautiful tree, or an intruding tree that stops us from walking in a straight line there, or a tree with unusual leaves that grab our attention, and so on. We may even for some reason never notice that tree but walk straight past it every day. In the lower to mid astral, what we will see will be different in each of these four cases. (I mentioned the impact of intentionality earlier on.) We won't just see the tree in the astral, but primarily we'll see it from an angle that emphasizes how we feel about it. Four different trees in the astral. It's not that they're any less unreal than if we could only ever see one tree in the astral the same as in the physical. It's not really that our perception in the astral is "subjective" either, because we are seeing the tree plus our emotional impressions, which do really and actually differ in each case. That's an example of how the astral worlds are less limited than the physical, and the higher the dimension you go to, the more unlimited or "bigger" the world gets. In the case of your not noticing the tree, you'll probably see a blur or dark spot in the astral where the tree is, but you'll also usually get some bleedthrough from your subconscious regarding your unacknowledged feelings regarding the tree -- because the subconscious or unconscious records absolutely everything that happens. Notice also that in the astral you are living more on the inside of you, because your emotions are inside of you.

The other thing I would like to bring up is, I feel some scepticism whenever someone says that they experienced that they were definitely using their astral hands or feet or eyes and not their physical ones, and yet they insist they didn't have an OB experience at all. I'd like to ask whether such people are being led too much by their thinking mind at that point. The thing is, the thinking mind has no direct experience of anything except mental concepts. So it never has a "full" direct experience of anything, at all, except the conceptual or the hypothetical. And because of this it feels deeply dissatisfied and unfulfilled. I suspect that no matter how total and profound and exotic and detailed an OB experience an individual may have, if they let their thinking mind in it will absolutely insist that they didn't have a "full" or "genuine" experience. A long time ago I learnt that such overreliance on the thinking mind brings great suffering and sabotages happiness. I avoid it like the plague, and would urge others to do the same.

Highwhistler

29th November 2014, 12:22

TraineeHuman

30th November 2014, 06:58

We now see that there are multiple (mini-)worlds in the astral worlds, and in all dimensions higher. What your particular emotions, and your thoughts, and your intentions, and your insights are regarding something in the physical, they literally put you into a slightly different possible world, from the astral level on up, than if you had had slightly different emotions, thoughts, intentions, insights, and so on. Not just multiple possible (mini-)worlds, but actual ones. Of course, reality still remains one. It is the totality of all of these, I suggest.

We therefore see that the Many Worlds hypothesis is true in the astral worlds and everywhere higher, at least in a certain localized sense. That's true even though I would argue there are good reasons to say that hypothesis can't be true in the physical.

This phenomenon, of being able to experience anything that's possible as actual, opens up all sorts of doors to the greater reality that lies just above the purely physical world. What Source does is, it sees all the possibilities at once. Through directly seeing various different possibilities as all equally real in the astral or mental worlds, we acquire an outlook somewhat more like that of Source.

Incidentally, if you're fairly convinced that there are dark, scary beings ready and waiting in the astral to make your life unpleasant, or if you focus on a strong fear of such, then in the astral you'll powerfully draw that particular version of possible reality to you.

animovado

30th November 2014, 12:59

We therefore see that the Many Worlds hypothesis is true in the astral worlds and everywhere higher, at least in a certain localized sense. That's true even though I would argue there are good reasons to say that hypothesis can't be true in the physical.

Can you share some of the good reasons of why you think this hypothesis can't be true in the physical?

***

I like to share a somewhat late remark to your post #1829 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=899160&viewfull=1#post899160), which in some parts is a very good description of what once happened to me.
By crossing a certain threshold, life intensifies to a springboard in every direction, depending on the maturity of the individual. In my case, it felt like a trip on the roller coaster, from a "heavenly high" to a painful low point within half a year. That was learning the hard way in an extreme fashion and it took quite a while for me to be grateful for this experience, particularly for the painful part!

TraineeHuman

30th November 2014, 13:09

We therefore see that the Many Worlds hypothesis is true in the astral worlds and everywhere higher, at least in a certain localized sense. That's true even though I would argue there are good reasons to say that hypothesis can't be true in the physical.

Can you share some of the good reasons of why you think this hypothesis can't be true in the physical?

I presented an argument for this in the thread called Schrodinger's Cat Food in the Alternative Medicine and Sciences section, where this hypothesis was discussed.

***

I like to share a somewhat late remark to your post #1829 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=899160&viewfull=1#post899160), which in some parts is a very good description of what once happened to me.
By crossing a certain threshold, life intensifies to a springboard in every direction, depending on the maturity of the individual. In my case, it felt like a trip on the roller coaster, from a "heavenly high" to a painful low point within half a year. That was learning the hard way in an extreme fashion and it took quite a while for me to be grateful for this experience, particularly for the painful part!

I believe the point of us having both extremely positive and extremely negative life experiences is that we can find the part of ourselves that remains the same in both.

TraineeHuman

1st December 2014, 05:32

There's another side to sovereignty. Given the infinite number of possible mini-worlds, or, if you like, individual timelines continually available to us all, the question is, how do we choose or get to "the" optimal choice? How do we ever possibly make all our emotions and thoughts, and so on for what's on higher levels as well, even close to being the "best" ones or the "right" ones? It's hard enough to self-watch and see what our thoughts and emotions and actions and the impulses of our own life-force, and the consequences of these, are or have been or are likely to be. Even though we now see that every single one of them counts. How do we now extend the scope of our awareness to all the possibilities of thought and emotion and action and impulse-response available to us, let alone to what the likely consequences of each of these might be?

Part of the answer is that the can-of-worms ordinary mind certainly is incapable of even beginning to deal with this. It's way too narrow, too blinkered, too fragmented, and way too much a slave to the ego. So if we're serious about wanting to find some excellence or Truth in our lives, we have to somehow learn to bring in, or at least begin to bring in, something higher -- namely, our Higher Mind, or maybe something even higher than that, if we can.

Traditionally in all spiritual "systems" or "teachings" that I know of, much emphasis is placed on the use of right intention at this point. That intention needs to be to do no less than surrender the lower in us to the higher. A very long process, but that's all the more reason to never let up. Pure intention of this kind literally is (the lowest level of) the Higher Mind. This is not to be confused with use of "will" in the sense that, say, those fond of invoking the Law of Attraction might perhaps like erroneously to call "intention". We need to appreciate that there are different levels of "will". The level most familiar to most people is the one which is controlled by the ordinary mind and the ego. That's not really one of "will power", except in the sense of using heavy force. The much truer power of pure intention is much more subtle than that, but also much more unified. Rather as a scalpel or laser cuts much more powerfully than an ordinary knife, so pure intention may seem like a gentle, throwaway wisp of gossamer but in reality it brings in the true "will power".

In spite of this greater lightness, all one's thoughts and desires and emotions and physical habits or responses need to be retrained somehow, to now answer to the right influences. This can and does at times involve consciously seizing on the ego and redirecting its energies, and getting it more and more accustomed to acknowledge and even obey the higher influence, the higher power.

Ultimately what's desirable here is to experience at least a glimpse of (very alive, intelligent, creative, proactive, not-object) Light, that lies at a higher dimensional level than the levels of the Higher Mind. Then we have at least a foretaste of what the illumination of the spirit really means, always accompanied at least briefly by a gigantic descent of peace that sweeps everything before it. And yet it works through Vision, through a kind of obsession or higher drive. Maybe that has something to do with what true freedom is.

TraineeHuman

4th December 2014, 06:53

One member has asked me to do a clairvoyant reading of some sort to identify what "weaknesses" are primarily stopping his Higher Mind from descending -- at least, I think that's roughly what he asked me for. Let me try to briefly explain a few things in response.

Firstly, near the start of this thread I visited a number of members OB and then attempted to arrange a group "meet up" OB. Partly this was an experiment on my part, because pretty much, almost, the only thing I was used to doing remotely (i.e. long-distance) prior to that, with other currently embodied (i.e. living) humans, was psychic healing. At the meet up, most of the invitees' HMs were present. I was surprised to find it was almost like meeting up with their personalities, with the exception that each HM was totally honest about his/her weaknesses and didn't try to look good in any attempt to cover them up in any way.

In retrospect, I guess one's HM isn't a blank slate, and instead it contains all of the individual's strengths but in a "purer" and considerably more powerful way than one sees in their everyday personality -- but not so many of that individual's weaknesses or faults. That's no doubt because the HM is the part of the individual that you get when you subtract or downplay most of the ego. Not that the HM stops being able to see the ego clearly.

I was absolutely certain that I met the HMs of these individuals, and could very clearly identify whose HM each was. The amazing thing was that none of the others was aware of meeting with any of the others at the agreed time. For example, justone was actually busily working at his workplace, and yet I experienced his HM expressing itself in truly unique ways that were very identifiable as him. As he himself suggested, by way of an explanation for how this could possibly be, our awareness only captures "maybe 5%" of actual reality. I would say that studies show that in "spiritually" mature individuals this figure is maybe 30%, but even then the explanation he suggests still works.

For reasons such as this, I don't propose to currently attempt a long-distance psychic reading regarding what are supposedly the worst egoic obstacles that the member I mentioned at the beginning needs to work on overcoming. Even if I came up with a 100% accurate reading, I don't have confidence that the information in it would be likely to be real enough to that individual. Maybe it would, but I suspect that would be unlikely, for most individuals, if not all individuals. Even though I strongly applaud his attitude of being willing to face the biggest obstacles or weaknesses in his psyche head-on.

Unfortunately, each individual has to reclaim bits of their HM from their ego through their own efforts, rather like reclaiming land from the sea piece by piece. There's no shortcut, unfortunately. And the way it works is through the individual's insight deeper and deeper into themselves. Just how or why that works would take a very long explanation, and that would only be mostly theoretical anyway. One major example of what one needs insight into, is the question of exactly how you are an imitation of each of your parents. The trouble is, they were your prime examples of how to behave as a human being when you were around age one and two and three. But you were so young then that you've forgotten. Also, your parents were very overwhelming to you, "bigger" and stronger than you, around that age. An example of some of the kinds of things you might face regarding them can be found in the following recent post of Bill Ryan's:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?77602-Handling-Entity-Attachments----tips-and-hints--a-condensed-user-manual-&p=907959&viewfull=1#post907959

By the way, I believe the reason why psychic healing can work so well long-distance has to do with the Many Worlds Hypothesis not being true in the physical. That makes it easy for the healee to focus accurately on their ailment; and it just so happens that many physical ailments seem to have psychological -- mental and/or emotional -- causes. So, by focusing on the ailment the healee unwittingly locates the true issue even though otherwise it's not so easy to accurately locate something in the infinity of Many Possible Worlds.

In my next post on this topic, I'll offer an explanation of how applying the basic meditation instruction of "let everything be just as it is" to one's self-watching is another key tool to achieving greater freedom from the ego's influence.

Ikarusion

4th December 2014, 10:24

Anyway, the next thing that happened was that suddenly this whole terrible scene turned into a real life video game (like 'Grand Theft Auto') and I was going around shooting all of these characters. Even though it was absolutely real, I wasn't actually shooting them with a gun. I was like a child at play pointing my finger at each one in turn, "Bang! Bang!, You're Dead!", and at that they all dutifully fell over and died. O.K. here's the strange bit. I encountered an 'end of level boss' next, in this hyper-real video game simulation, and it was a woman in a bikini, at least 12 feet tall, but it was obvious that she also had male genetalia (which the bikini bottoms didn't hide so well). At this point I was starting to feel overwhelmed by all of these enemies, so I called upon my own power and instantly the whole thing stopped. Game over, I win.

i had a similar dream about 3 weeks ago. it happened after practicing stillness of mind and body in bed one night.
i also think i held the intention to face my dark side/negative aspects.

i think i was kind of a video game like panda and there where a huge amount of monsters attacking me.
i believe the dream started from a point of view outside and then i took over the panda and saw through its eyes.
the enemies reminded me of the game bayonetta, but i havent played it in over a year or two, so its nothing that was still active in my mind.

anyway, most monsters/demons where smaller or my size, and i could beat them, but there where two extremly larger ones that didnt show much reaction to my attacks so i mainly ran from these while fighting of the smaller ones too. i remember one of the two was as tall as a giraffe, but it had multiple spider like legs.

eventually they got me, but all they did then was take and lock me into.. maybe something like a small cabinet or very small room.
so it was at this point more of a game over, then "omg the demons got me and gonna kill me". it just felt like a loss.
and its weird how once they got a hold of me the attacks seized and they just locked me up.

i remember seeing somewhat through the door that got locked, like the upper part was glass with some curtains on the other side and while the monster was walking away from it i saw its head (kinda like a person at that point) move away and i gave it both of my middle fingers in protest. aaaand i woke up.

what i got from it is my internal fight, and although i could fix smaller issues, i have trouble subduing bigger ones. however, im not namely sure what these issues really would be.

there was a similar dream a week ago where i was at some sort of restaurant or so, everything had a look and feel of japanese culture to it.
somehow a fight started and i was on the side of two sword weilding women, one of them seemed very skilled. i dont really have that experience so i had to sorta do my best and manage, which i somehow did. not as efficently and elegant but in the end we survived and subdued all our many attackers.

it was very much like a big sword brawl in a crowded place and i didnt really want to kill my attackers but i saw it as the thing to do and stabbed people with my sword after an inital attack to make sure they are dead and not able to keep fighting.
in a way i didnt want to resolve to this kind of violence but i saw myself forced to act out the role i was given and to help the other two women who where with me. even though im not sure who they are in the first place. i had a sense of us agains them mentality.

what was funny, i started aikido a month ago and the movements are often very similar to kendo sword fighting movements. so in the dream at one point i collected myself and concentrated on my posture and made my movements more aikido like to be more efficiently.

and because car dreams have been montioned a couple of times, heres mine, and its not a reoccurring one. or maybe not yet.

but i was driving a car, not sure where i got it or if i stole it, because i dont own one, nor do i have a license. i just driven 3 short times in my life.

i just remember getting very close to accidents but always slightly managing to get out of them before a crash or so.
but because im not used to driving, it was very freestyleish and i was curving around a lot. it was almost as if i was driving a bit faster then i could manage well, which got me into these close accidents in retrospect. and i was always like "uuuh, i almost hit that car on my turn" but it was very exciting to get so close to accidents and also seeing that even though i didnt drive well, i did manage not to touch another car or thing.

anyway, at the end i was getting to a sharp curve on a highway but i couldnt take it well and crashed down the cliff.

on another note, i have been hearing high pitched peep like sounds, usually when i lay still in bed and try to keep an empty mind. typically around my ears too, but i dont think i heard that lower pitched sound from the back of my head.

i definitely seem to have better dream recollection since im invested in this topic and meditate more regulary and frequently.

ou, also i really liked, i think it was awakeinadream's nightmare where he got chased by a guy with a chainsaw and with his intention alone transformed the attacker to a nice sociable person. i am trying to apply this too from now on, instead of simply perishing the negative. it is surely the better way.

so thanks to you all.
and of course any dream insight is appreciated. :)

TraineeHuman

5th December 2014, 09:48

i think i was kind of a video game like panda and there where a huge amount of monsters attacking me.
i believe the dream started from a point of view outside and then i took over the panda and saw through its eyes.
the enemies reminded me of the game bayonetta, but i havent played it in over a year or two, so its nothing that was still active in my mind.

anyway, most monsters/demons where smaller or my size, and i could beat them, but there where two extremly larger ones that didnt show much reaction to my attacks so i mainly ran from these while fighting of the smaller ones too. i remember one of the two was as tall as a giraffe, but it had multiple spider like legs.

eventually they got me, but all they did then was take and lock me into.. maybe something like a small cabinet or very small room.
so it was at this point more of a game over, then "omg the demons got me and gonna kill me". it just felt like a loss.
and its weird how once they got a hold of me the attacks seized and they just locked me up.

Your dream reveals that you need to face the fact that you have considerable inner conflict at present, I suggest. Underneath all that, in some way, there must be something you're angry about. In my previous post I said that there's no shortcut to getting rid of, say, that anger. But I'd like to now mention there's a partial shortcut at least.

One example of the type of shortcut I'm referring to is that you handle your anger, or someone else's negativity, through getting yourself busy on counter-creation. What I mean by that is that you don't engage yourself in the conflict, or in directly trying to resolve it. And instead, you do something very positive in a new area, something that will hopefully be better or more useful or more important than what you would have achieved in the conflicted area anyway, given the resistance you're facing there. That's only one example of a way to resolve your anger into something very constructive. And rather than "playing" with the ego's toys, such as anger or violence, you replace these with HM "toys".

In posts such as #883: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=681017&viewfull=1#post681017

#884: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=681044&viewfull=1#post681044

#907: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=683379&viewfull=1#post683379

#695: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=667676&viewfull=1#post667676

and others, some of those HM "toys" were briefly discussed.

Still, there's also value in carefully observing yourself, and therefore your ego. Perhaps the best way to do this is from an initial position of "letting everything be, and remain, just exactly as it is". There are two major areas of our lives, perhaps: relationships, and work. It's easier to observe when the ego's strongly at play in a work situation, because the entanglement with the egos of others will usually be less than it often is in our relationships. Any resistance to whatever work you need to do is pure ego. Through observing and carefully noting exactly what kinds of excuses and identities you find yourself presenting as a means of resisting doing that work, you'll get clear glimpses of some major parts of your ego.

Finally, I'd like to reflect on what "letting everything be, and remain, just exactly as it is" actually implies, however understatedly. It actually means throwing away any and every inconsistency, and ultimately, if you take it far enough and wholeheartedly enough, even any difference, between our (true) Self and the entire world. As soon as we do that, we unlock the simple mystery, the simple truth, of being itself. Not to mention of spiritual enlightenment. It's the simple truth that faces us everywhere, only we unwittingly keep choosing not to see it.

It is the essence of freedom, because there is no longer any need for us to seek freedom, once we have the entire universe already. It's frustrating to write about, because it's so simple and so true and yet our society and civilisation conspires to continually blind us to it.

There are two stages to it. The second stage involves coming to terms with how even such things as the limited egos of others are also in many ways still also an expression of the Whole itself.

Ikarusion

5th December 2014, 10:32

thanks for the help trainee.

i must say though, i am an very easy going and content person. however there does seem to be some underlined anger somewhere. but im not really sure where it comes from.

i reflect a lot on the things i say and do, especially in interactions with other people, and during interactions when i notice the ego speaking, i dim that down.
i am very forgiveful and dont hold grudges. i like to give, especially to people in need, but maybe i dont do that often enough.
i dont judge others or maybe just certain actions superficially, never taking the judgement too serious.
if my emotions get blown out of porportion i do notice that quickly and laugh it off upon realization.
i am greatful for my life and a very empathic listener. although i started to doubt that because at the same time i can distance myself very clearly.
although thanks to your words i see that this distance keeps me sane as well and it stems from not wanting to adopt others sorrow.

so again, its very hard to understand where that comes from. i mean i have ideas, but i dont feel like those are the issues, i simply see them as logical options.
(parents divorced at early age, never saw father again. always felt a bit weak and not good enough during childhood. mom and best friend dead for few years now)

about 7 years ago i started working out and training kung fu. since childhood i liked kung fu movies and admired the discipline and strengh these people had.
but i was denied training as a kid due to money shortage and i actually never really liked sports much at that time anyway. i never did anything outside of school and hence it was harder for me then for most kids. during the first years i started working on my self i gained confidence and had a good outlet for frustration.

so since then when i feel anger or similar emotions i work out and feel good again.
but the need to do so declined and i didnt really have to let off some steam for.. maybe over a year now. not that i worked out because of anger much anyway.

as a kid though, i usually never let out any anger and just sucked it in. so i figure it must be something from around that time thats still around.
but as i said, i changed a lot in the last 7 years (turning 28 soon). and i really almost all the time try to take the best way/approach on thing as i know by heart and from what i've read in philosophy/psychology/"new age" esoterics and ancient universal truths.

one thing that is hard to completly let go is cannabis.
i pondered on this lately. it has done mostly good for me and i really like the way it influences me and raises my consciousness/vibration.
however i get into habits, this is the biggest and maybe only issue i still have.
i usually smoke on and off for weeks. meaning i usually smoke every day for sometime untill i think i need a brake. and then usually once i start again i often slip back into the daily habit. only sometimes i got better control over it and actually only smoke once or twice a week and am completly content with that.
btw i can and did stop for months if i wanted to. but in regular every day life im often alone at home in the evenings and like to enrich my them with cannabis.

i dont see cannabis as a problem, but habitual and continued use of it for longer periods of time as one.

so again, i see some logically possible sources for my anger, but it doesnt feel like its coming from there. i still cant pin point where its coming from and i rarely see any anger in me lately anyway, which doesnt make it easier. actually i dont see anger, rather agitation at certain times.

i am quite sensitive, and at work people are able to agitate me by making a ruckus and talking loud about superficial irrelevant and sometimes maybe even stupid things right around me, when i rather just work in peaceful silence.

but my usual approach in such a situation is trying to ignore it as best as i can and never engage directly.

this doesnt happen often, still id be happy if some people where in the office less often.

but thank you for your help.
take care all.

Highwhistler

5th December 2014, 11:07

i think i was kind of a video game like panda and there where a huge amount of monsters attacking me.

TH made excellent observations and helpful suggestions regarding nightmares and negatively-oriented dreams.

You are invited to look at the cause of some so-called "bad dreams" from this angle too ...

I've been meditating every day, many hours a day, for 4 decades. Yet, even after 20 years of meditation, I was still having "bad dreams" occasionally. But 2 decades ago I did something that made nearly every negatively-oriented dream disappear from my existence in the twinkle of an eye. With me, I noticed that just about every bad dream was mechanically-produced by certain sleeping positions. Here's how ...

I noticed that when I slept on my left or right side, or even in a slightly curled-up classic fetal-like position, the chances for having a bad dream or even negatively-oriented thoughts and feelings, significantly increased.

However, if I slept flat on my back, with my arms relaxed by my side and legs out (not crossed) -- I slept peacefully and beautifully.

I experimented with every type of sleeping position that I could think of ... and noted the type, tone and quality of dreams produced in each one, and conclusively found that sleeping on the right or left side was not helpful for me. My body was telling me this, through generating "bad dreams" ... and I finally listened.

I determined that when I slept on my right or left side, the arm that was under my chest was being compressed by the weight of my chest, of course, which reduced the normal flow of blood through the large vessels in the upper arm and the smooth gentle flow of electrical impulses going through the large nerves of the shoulder and upper arm.

Anyway ... try sleeping flat on your back as I suggested and see if that produces night after night of sweet, restful, beautiful sleep.

And of course as everyone knows, playing violent video games, watching violent movies, and watching TV channels designed for mass consumption, are not helpful for people who are truly interested in creating psychic ecosystems that are joyful, positive, serene and inspiring.

Ikarusion

5th December 2014, 13:08

thx. i have always been sleeping on my stomache, with one are on its side and one sorta under the pillow going diagonally towards the other and the side im looking.
i tried many times to sleep on my back, and now often even do, because in that position i try practicing stillness when i go to bed earlier, but sometimes i cant relax well enough and when i turn to my standard position i find that im out in a few moments.

another thing i do sometimes now, when waking up at night or morning is i put both arms down and under me while on stomache so that my hands rest relaxed yet compressed under my crotch, at the base where the legs start. i dont know why but i found this kinda nice. but a few nights ago i analyzed sleeping positions a bit and yes, i did recognize being on the back as the least constrictive. ive been sleeping on the stomache for ever, but i rarely have nightmares or bad dreams.

regarding the anger trainee mentioned i contemplated a bit over my lunch break and i think there is still some left thats attached to loosing my mother and not being able to give back enough. really one of the things that bugged me about that loss, was that naturally she gave me a lot as my mother, but that i to rarely returned the favour and gave her things back. and i am generally very concerned with justice and balance, so this might bug me more then others. dont know.

of course i am at fault for procrastinating so much.
hmm, maybe i shouldnt beat myself up too much over this also because she probably knew how i feel or does now.

i dunno.. a tough cookie.

Wind

5th December 2014, 13:20

Ikarusion

5th December 2014, 13:47

ok, i actually started to become easily agitated now, so theres definitely some anger i hold on to subconsciously and i think im angry at myself..

Highwhistler

5th December 2014, 15:39

That's interesting, I can almost never fall asleep while laying on my back, usually I fall asleep while sleeping on my stomach or either sleeping on my right side. When ever I have had my sleep paralysis experiences, I've woken up from the position of sleeping on my back.

You are so right. The same thing happened to me. It took me a day or two to really and truly relax into the wide-open, flat on your back sleeping position -- with arms and legs relaxed and not crossed. It took just a few days for me to tune into the "energy of acceptance, care and joy" while sleeping ... rather than having to protect my body and Self, while sleeping in the fetal position, crossing my legs and arms, laying on my side, so that nothing "out there" could attack me ... symbolically speaking through my sleeping positions.

Afterall ... your stomach and central organs are presented to the world when you are flat on your back ... and you are energetically, emotionally, and spiritually saying to all of Life and to the whole mysterious Universe, through your body language: "I trust YOU. Take me tonight. I surrender."

And so I started doing that ... and I've not had a nightmare since. And I've not been to a doctor for a single day because of illness, because I've not been sick ... and I've never had a single prescription in 40 years. And so I sense that not only does this idea about sleeping positions help MY psyche ... it also has translated over into the health of my physical body.

On the other hand ... everyone in my extended family and circles of friends ... they all have bad dreams and negative-oriented imaginative movies are a part of their status quo. Why in the world would I be the only one among everyone that I know, to not have bad dreams, nightmares, negative-oriented feelings and thoughts dance through my psyche while sleeping?

Well ... the answer is complex, for sure, as my life-style and orientation to Existence is different than everyone I love and know. But, I am sure that my simple, harmonious, open and trusting sleeping positions, have something to do with it.

Again: all of my posts and stories are only about MY ongoing, first-hand experiences. Everyone is equal to me ... and your experiences and understandings, and everyone's experiences are equally as valid and real as mine. We are different, for sure, but in essence: I am another YOU.

dpwishy

5th December 2014, 19:10

I had another one last night. I have been getting frustrated lately as the time between the last one was about a month or so. This time it happened in a small hour nap I took after I woke up for the day. Instead of the target technique, I was doing vipassana meditation and just watching and observing the body as it was, not as we want it to be (which is what the term vipassana means). This time I entered dream state and was not initiated from the very beginning like the last. This time I kept losing teeth in a dream, they kinda just fall out, its a trigger for me that something isnt right. It was through this that I was able to become conscious and have an obe.

What I really wanted to share is what I learned this time. The first thing I did once I realized I was in a OBE and fully aware was ask for clarity, and it worked. As soon as I saw this working, I knew I was there and it was at my whim. So the next thing I said is, "bring me to my higher self". I noticed it wasn't the same as when I said "higher self now" last time, wording has a big play in all of this. Because I said bring me to my higher self, it was a more drawn out process, being whisked away once again by some intelligent hand. As it happened, I felt the sensation of flying once again, which is something I have a hard time processing. Its a weird feeling, almost like going down a huge hill on a roller coaster. I remembered my last OBE and that this sensation actually stopped me from moving around, it was to much for me. As soon as I felt it again I told my self "lets play around with this for awhile so I can get used to the flying". This is where I had my realization. I didnt realize until after I woke up, but I never made it to my higher self. The fact that I made a conscious choice to fly around and try to get used to that feeling, kept me flying around and traveling, never going to the higher self.

To make a long story short, I was amazed at how time responsive things were to thoughts, words and will. There is literally no separation in cause and effect. If you say "bring me to my higher self" its a completely different process than "higher self now". One has a progression, like a route is being traveled. The ladder is instant and just is. It all had to do with the wording. This was shown once again when I willed to get used to the sensation of flying. In that instant the progression to the higher self was over and getting used to the sensation of flying was now the experience being had. It showed me not only does every single word I say matter, but how I hold my thoughts and will during these times also has A HUGE IMPACT.

I see not only OBE as a major way to master fear, as this is literally my exist every time. Its making me drop fears more and more as this becomes the fulcrum to leaving OBE and everything inside me wants to stay and explore. Not only that but I now see it as an amazing way to train the mind and will to hold on to a single thought form or creation. This is the practice in mastering it, as once we have it over there we can implement it here. Things take much longer with focused will here for creation, I now see the OBE as a stepping stone to practicing and learning this process so it can be implemented in the waking reality with great effect.

In divine friendship,
your brother,
-michael

Highwhistler

5th December 2014, 19:41

Hi Michael. Thank you for the thoughtful response, regarding your first-hand OBE experiences.

What first came to mind, when reading your message ... is your realization about how responsive the Universe is, to the wishes and desires of you -- the soul.

Also, when we are in the actual real-life OB experience, there are probably a ga-zillion-trillion ways to move from one experience to another, to jump from the current world in our here and now experience to another, and hopscotch through dimensions and life-times, from one realm to another ... with absolute ease.

But I admit: I only know a few ways to travel as a fully awake and aware center of consciousness. And so EVERTHING that I've ever posted, is only my own personal reflections, from my own very limited, continual, first-hand experiences. All of you -- everyone! -- are welcome to have their own experiences ... and I feel and know that ALL OF YOUR EXPERIENCES are as equally valid and as real as mine. I bow to you. You are another me.

OK ... because I'm just a pre-schooler in real-life, on-the-spot, wide-awake, brilliantly awake, continual, fully conscious, ongoing OBE techniques ... I only know about 2 traveling techniques that I have experienced over and over again:

1: I feel that most people do this when they are OB: You move like a human or fly like a bird. That is ... you move around in a psychic ecosystem, mechanically-speaking ... like, you are in a body, looking out your eyes, in a terrestrial world where you are on the surface of the planet -- or you are soaring above the environment like a bird ... you don't have wings, necessarily, you are just a focus of awareness that is soaring above the planet, or in a room, or soaring through the star-filled arms of the Milky Way. It's like you are a conscious satellite ... just enjoying the view with all your heart and soul.

2: The other way that I've moved from dimension to dimension, world to world, life-time to life-time, is like ... teleporting ... but just in an instant. The way that my OB self "teleports" is not like the Star Trek wiggly lights in their visual concepts that are made for tv and movies. Once I realized OUR natural abilities as souls, when fully conscious and OB, when I simply want to be some where new ... in LESS THAN THE TWINKLE OF AN EYE ... I instantly appear in the dimension, world, and/or another experience ... in brilliant, wide-awake awareness ... the type of awareness that is not commonly known in human form during 3D Earth incarnations.

TraineeHuman

9th December 2014, 01:24

Looking at professional remote viewing, the following training video by Courtney Brown has been unearthed by Teka (Highwhistler):

http://youtu.be/AGw9gHfSEwM

Some issues it brings up include the following.

Firstly, this video makes it clear that professional remote viewers begin their sessions by using telepathy to locate their target. Specifically, they're given a string of randomly selected numbers which are "coordinates" for their target, but they use telepathy (and after that, clairvoyance) to locate precisely what target the person who chose those random "coordinates" had in mind.

I'd like to point out that telepathy is itself an OB skill. We receive information directly from the "sender's" mental or astral bodies (which might perhaps equally be called "minds"). And we receive it with our own astral and/or mental body. We then often or usually pass it instantly to our ordinary mind, which, though it operates at a mental (and astral) level, is very heavily attached to and "blinkered" into the physical.

Traditionally, telepathy was one of the three most basic psychic skills, along with clairvoyance and concentration. (Anyone wishing to master astral or mental projection needs to first master these basic skills, among others.) In modern times, the education system teaches those in most countries how to concentrate quite well -- though admittedly not to the more advanced level of one-pointedness. For thousands of years in India, many systems did not even begin teaching the development of psychic abilities until the individual had reached the initial experience of enlightenment. Other systems started on psychic skills sooner, but in both cases the development and practice of meditation was central. in Courtney Brown's video he says that all his RVers' work is more accurate if they practice some meditation before each RV session, to still the (ordinary) mind.

From what Courtney says in the video, it seems clear to me that professional RVing also involves a higher level of consciousness than that of the Higher Mind. He does explicitly distinguish "the sub-space mind" (the Higher Mind) from the ordinary mind. Indeed, such activities as telepathy and astral or mental travel certainly are activities performed primarily by the HM. In RVing, as in telepathy, the HM retrieves knowledge which lies beyond the capacity of the ordinary mind to obtain directly.

Although Courtney doesn't mention this, I claim that it takes a whole higher level of consciousness than that of the Higher Mind if we want to see how accurate the knowledge the HM has brought up is. Much as, in self-watching, we need to rise to the level of the HM in order to watch ourselves with any proper perspective or accuracy, so, similarly, in this case. I'd like to suggest that the level of consciousness that has an overview of the HM is what's often known as Superconsciousness. Here I'm simply following the standard "model" used throughout Vedanta and indeed implicitly in Ch'an/Zen, and in transpersonal psychology and post-Jungian psychology. I'm not going to argue or prove here that Superconsciousness is a level of consciousness significantly below that of Source or of the Divine Mind. Even though that fact is well-known in the above traditions and disciplines.

You may wonder why, then, according to Courtney, even the very best RVers in the world make an accurate hit at best something like 50% of the time. I suggest this is largely because of the ordinary mind's involvement in RVing. Courtney's protocol cleverly -- make that ingeniously, something we can all learn from -- requires that mind to keep busy by focusing on being a good scribe for the HM, and serving the HM by "listening" to its information and recording it as quickly as possible. But that still leaves the ordinary mind some margin for sabotaging things by sneakily butting in with its own opinion.

The HM lives largely in the Now, and it doesn't like to hold things in its memory much at all. Its memory is very short-term. Why hold a token of some experience in memory when you've directly absorbed the experience itself and made it one more part of your being? This is why the ordinary mind has an "in" here.

For that reason, I find it hard not to question the significance of the distinction many make between dreams and "lucid dreams" and "OB travel". Surely the only thing that makes a difference among the three is holding a memory of what one has experienced?

Highwhistler

9th December 2014, 13:12

You may wonder why, then, according to Courtney, even the very best RVers in the world make an accurate hit at best something like 50% of the time. I suggest this is largely because of the ordinary mind's involvement in RVing. Courtney's protocol cleverly -- make that ingeniously, something we can all learn from -- requires that mind to keep busy by focusing on being a good scribe for the HM, and serving the HM by "listening" to its information and recording it as quickly as possible. But that still leaves the ordinary mind some margin for sabotaging things by sneakily butting in with its own opinion.

50% accuracy is extraordinary, because the pool of all possibilities and all possible targets are infinite. And the type of remote viewing that Courney fascilitates is blind remote viewing in which the RVers are not given any hint or info about the target. They are only told, usually through an email: "There is a target."

Another answer as to why "only" 50% RV accuracy might be found in several other of Courtney's fascinating remote viewing projects, in which he somehow scientifically proves the existence of multiple universes, dimensions and timelines.

I have long theorized that there is a bleed-through of consciousness between dimensions, worlds & universes ... and that the awareness, memories, energies of multiple dimensions, worlds & universes are pulsing through our own psyche. The masses of humankind have just been taught to think all the stuff that we are experiencing inside our hearts and minds ... well, it's just a bunch of imagination, is largely meaningless, and so ignore it.

You can imagine that there's not just 10 dimensions but an infinite number. And there are timelines similar to this one ... some being played out slightly differently, and others completely differently, than here in this world. Courney's research says that's in fact, the case.

And so if there is a bleed through of consciousness between nearby dimensions ... perhaps the RVers are picking-up information and events from this world, as well as from another timeline, and mixing them together.

The current RV techniques have not been able to separate out consciousness that originates in other timelines and dimensions -- yet.

TraineeHuman

9th December 2014, 23:56

The question of how does the particular timeline we are in differ from other possible timelines, and how do unseen influences from other dimensions or parallel worlds affect it, is fraught with complexities. For one thing, there's our own particular timeline, and it's easy enough to make minor changes to that, but these probably won't affect the overall current timeline of humanity. Should you decide to have tea today rather than your usual coffee, for instance, you haven't magically created a whole "reality" just by making that choice. Possibly (though not so likely), the tea you choose today had gone old or even mouldy, so that as a result you'll feel unwell and irritable today. That may indeed have some effect on others, and may even force them to make a tiny adjustment to their own personal timeline -- such as seeing that you're irritable and so avoiding any conversation with you today, for instance. On the other hand, the cumulative effect of everyone making many constructive little choices in their own lives can in sum actually "lift" the human consciousness into a better possible world, because each of our individual consciousnesses does contribute invisibly to the overall human consciousness.

One interesting issue is the fact that individually all we seem to have is partial knowledge, about anything that's truly important. This means we're saddled with ignorance at every turn, and that inevitably creates wrong actions and a misguided will, which then makes some further bad choices, leaving us quite far from the optimal personal timeline we would like to be in. Not only that, but in our ignorance we may well delight in or become attached or habituated to perverse or false perceptions of reality. I suspect that even the best RVers have to contend with this handicap to a certain degree also. Only to a degree, though, because such RVers seem to me to have attained some major level of enlightenment. They therefore can see at least glimpses of the really big picture.

Without such ignorance and such veils over our pereception as partial knowldge brings, we would never experience the delight of discovery. This seems to be why the HM likes to hold very little in its memory. The HM experiences everything and every situation and moment afresh, as if for the very first time. The joy or bliss that the HM brings comes from the surprise of the new and unforeseen. Is this not one of the greatest joys possible?

TraineeHuman

10th December 2014, 01:33

i was driving a car, not sure where i got it or if i stole it, because i dont own one, nor do i have a license. i just driven 3 short times in my life.

i just remember getting very close to accidents but always slightly managing to get out of them before a crash or so.
but because im not used to driving, it was very freestyleish and i was curving around a lot. it was almost as if i was driving a bit faster then i could manage well, which got me into these close accidents in retrospect. and i was always like "uuuh, i almost hit that car on my turn" but it was very exciting to get so close to accidents and also seeing that even though i didnt drive well, i did manage not to touch another car or thing.

anyway, at the end i was getting to a sharp curve on a highway but i couldnt take it well and crashed down the cliff.

A car is maybe the most common dream symbol. It virtually always means your life, or the current course of your life.

I haven't had a dream or OBE where my car actually crashed, but there have been a few times in my life when my car (or train, or whatever) got kind of derailed, or stuck or parked somewhere where it couldn't move. The last time was about eight or nine years ago. The dream meant my HM was telling me to get out of a stuck situation and put my life on a whole different course, which I did.

All I can say is that your dream of going over a cliff suggests your HM wants you to similarly take action to make a very big change in your life at present -- or it did, at the time you had that dream. The scenery etc in your dream will give some clue as to what sort of area you need to make the changes in, but you'll no doubt have a good idea what area(s) of your life you feel particularly dissatisfied with.

TraineeHuman

10th December 2014, 02:16

there was a ... dream a week ago where i was at some sort of restaurant or so, everything had a look and feel of japanese culture to it.
somehow a fight started and i was on the side of two sword weilding women, one of them seemed very skilled. i dont really have that experience so i had to sorta do my best and manage, which i somehow did. not as efficently and elegant but in the end we survived and subdued all our many attackers.

it was very much like a big sword brawl in a crowded place and i didnt really want to kill my attackers but i saw it as the thing to do and stabbed people with my sword after an inital attack to make sure they are dead and not able to keep fighting.
in a way i didnt want to resolve to this kind of violence but i saw myself forced to act out the role i was given and to help the other two women who where with me. even though im not sure who they are in the first place. i had a sense of us agains them mentality.

The characters in dreams are almost always just aspects of yourself. Even if the characters are people you know, it will still be some quality in yourself that that person is a kind of mirror of, and mostly not that person themselves. This dream, like several of the others, clearly shows that your HM wants you to appreciate that you have some kind of big inner conflict at present. This must be sabotaging some things in your life at present, so that you may be your own worst enemy at present, for instance.

In the dream you're initially reluctant to get involved in the violence, but the violence is there and that's a fact. This suggests that you may not be consciously aware at present of what you feel angry about. What roles do you feel you have to play that you would like to get rid of or transform? What kinds of "attackers" are affecting your quality of life, and how can you creatively and constructively deal with them to move and resolve things? What would be the ideal solution for you? Or maybe you need to cut your ties with the "attackers" (within yourself!) and create anew in some area where they're not present?

Ikarusion

10th December 2014, 08:33

thank you trainee.

All I can say is that your dream of going over a cliff suggests your HM wants you to similarly take action to make a very big change in your life at present -- or it did, at the time you had that dream. The scenery etc in your dream will give some clue as to what sort of area you need to make the changes in, but you'll no doubt have a good idea what area(s) of your life you feel particularly dissatisfied with.
at the time i was unaware what couldve been meant. however over the last few days i think i know exactly what it is addressing and i hoped i wouldve realised sooner, but i guess i needed the external pointers to really understand.

the scenery.. at first i was driving in a city, much traffic and streets, but the cliff.. behind it was the beach and ocean, i think it might even have been sunset.
actually quite beautiful and i remember looking at the cash from far outside, with a good view at the curve of the street and the ocean/sunset backdrop.

This dream, like several of the others, clearly shows that your HM wants you to appreciate that you have some kind of big inner conflict at present. This must be sabotaging some things in your life at present, so that you may be your own worst enemy at present, for instance.

In the dream you're initially reluctant to get involved in the violence, but the violence is there and that's a fact. This suggests that you may not be consciously aware at present of what you feel angry about. What roles do you feel you have to play that you would like to get rid of or transform? What kinds of "attackers" are affecting your quality of life, and how can you creatively and constructively deal with them to move and resolve things? What would be the ideal solution for you? Or maybe you need to cut your ties with the "attackers" (within yourself!) and create anew in some area where they're not present?
something that disturbs me came up yesterday and im thinking of stopping something, maybe finally move too. i played with the idea of moving places since years now.

because of what came up, i asked for help and guidance two days ago, and again yesterday evening. also asking for insight through dreams.

what i dreamed this night though.. i cant really relate..
i was hanging around a big, probably old house with a couple of black dudes eating pizza and joking with each other. one had his girl with him too i think.

i remember at some point i was outside, on the side of the house just looking up at the wall and roof. the side where the roof comes together and makes a reverse v, or pyramid shape. the next moment im back inside talking and joking. at the the end one guy got a giant pizza and slapped it against me, well i was sorta hiding behind a cover on a sofa and he slept it.

i dont know what that was all about. it was relaxed, maybe i should relax more and spend time with friends and family. not sure.
also not sure why everybody was black. im white and currently have 0 black friends, just some friends of friends and work colleagues that are black and im in contact with.

maybe because i subconsciously think they are easy to hang loose.

ah well, thank you for your insight. it might seem a bit late, but i think it comes at the right time. :)

TraineeHuman

11th December 2014, 08:11

what i dreamed this night though.. i cant really relate..
i was hanging around a big, probably old house with a couple of black dudes eating pizza and joking with each other. one had his girl with him too i think.

The other people in the dream were alter egos of yourself -- such as identities you're currently trying out in some way. Obviously fun-loving, hedonistic, maybe self-indulgent, and certainly quite happy to be "different".

A house is almost always a symbol for your mind or your personality.

im back inside talking and joking. at the the end one guy got a giant pizza and slapped it against me, well i was sorta hiding behind a cover on a sofa and he slept it.

Your dreams are messages from your HM, giving you a very truthful if symbolic picture of where you're really at at present. This will often have a positive and a negative side, but both the positive and the negative will be things you're currently not facing, or not fully aware of, about yourself. I suspect that part of the negative side of the message is that your HM is warning you that you're being maybe too self-indulgent, or maybe too willing to allow potentially unwholesome influences into your life. But on the other hand you're fun-loving, which isn't necessarily a bad thing at all, and friendly, which the world can always use more of.

Ikarusion

11th December 2014, 08:48

thank you, i really appreciate your insight very much.

I suspect that part of the negative side of the message is that your HM is warning you that you're being maybe too self-indulgent, or maybe too willing to allow potentially unwholesome influences into your life. But on the other hand you're fun-loving, which isn't necessarily a bad thing at all, and friendly, which the world can always use more of.
yes, i allowed potentially unwholesome influences into my life. that is absolutely true. that is what i recently noticed, or rather had to notice.
its a bit surprising how you got that from my dream. :)

and yes! of course im a fun loving, friendly person that strives for harmony in my (also social) life. how can one really love to hate? hard for me to grasp.

one more thing about the dream: the moment where i went in front of the house and back, i think it happened because i wondered how the house actually looked like.
i think this thought put me outside for a glimpse, and then i wanted to continue being with the others and pang, was back inside again.

take care.

Ikarusion

12th December 2014, 09:23

Ikarusion

12th December 2014, 15:33

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgBr1pt9r44
wow, i love this song. so simplisticly put and upbeat. gotta share this with people. thanks for posting. :love:

TraineeHuman

13th December 2014, 11:46

im currently wondering how guardian angels would react if their fosterling would start to become a serial killer, or in any other way would continually hurt people.
whats the common reaction (besides more weeping?), how would they change their interactions with the person?
is there a common pattern, or do they genereally consult with others and higher beings for an individual.. solution?

just curious.

In nearby parts of the universe, I happen to know there are many, many other physical or near-physical planets with rather human-like civilizations. But very, very rarely, in my experience, does one find such oppression, so much corruption and conflict and so on, as we see on Earth (and on the moon and Mars). Not that it hasn't been even worse on the Earth at various periods in the last 15,000 years or so. Most comparable planets have civilizations a little like ours, except they're not by any means with such injustice and institutionalized greed and lack of decency as here. In those other places everything runs pretty much the right way, more constructively, instead of going rotten the way it often has on Earth.

According to various threads on PA and sources elsewhere, the major countries on this planet are under the manipulation of various ET races, most of them not overfriendly to humans, or neutral to the best interests of humans. But I would claim that such races are only permitted to get away with such manipulation for a limited time, and only because the humans in positions of power or wealth haven't really found the ultimately greater power of the HM. It's as if most of humanity are currently in a degraded status like ants, say, and you can't really blame some "bigger" beings for stepping on some of them to some degree.

This is where the guardian angels come in. They're here to ensure that the human spirit can't be crushed, ultimately. They're all volunteers from substantially higher-level realms of Light. Kind of like we have charities here on Earth. The guardian angels confine themselves to working on an individual level, and to doing whatever they can to help each individual to awaken more to their HM.

The guardian angels aren't directly concerned with the physical levels but with the HM (formless, intentional or intuitive, blissful) level. That's why although they will manipulate many difficult situations in your favor somewhat if you request it, they do have limits on where and how they will interfere. They certainly won't help you win the lottery, for instance, because that would be direct involvement at the physical level (in something that's not a life-threatening emergency) instead of at the higher, inner levels. The guardian angels know that you are an eternal, immortal being, and that on Earth you have rather more opportunity to experience certain extremes that will ultimately make you stronger. Not just "pie in the sky when you die", but hopefully also while you're still drawing breath. They can be quite detached about human suffering that will ultimately transform the consciousness.

Anyone with genuine insight into the probable future on this planet will know that we will be in a truly golden age within about two centuries. And that you may well not need to be a prepper, but your kids probably will. And it's not so fair to them, in many ways, but it can't be helped. Or if you're under 30 yourself, this probably includes you too, I'm afraid. You (they) can't count on your (their) GAs, or so-called "ascension", to magically save you (them) from all the pain and conflict to come. But helping you to help yourself with real ascension (i.e., raising your level in order to bring the HM in more fully) is what GAs are all about.

also, is there a way to tap into the (past)lives of others, or is it not possible/harder if they aren't connected to you or your past lives?

Being aware of details of your own or others' past lifetimes and so on is by and large quite an advanced skill. I'm skeptical about how much value there is in hypnotic regression where you learn about (apparently!) some past (or future) lifetime of yours from listening to a tape recording of yourself while you were in a hypnotic sleep. To learn to accurately and naturally see details of past lifetimes, first you need to have done loads of cleaning up with regard to the present lifetime. The present lifetime is always almost a kind of sum total of your past lifetimes anyway.

Ikarusion

13th December 2014, 21:03

You (they) can't count on your (their) GAs, or so-called "ascension", to magically save you (them) from all the pain and conflict to come. But helping you to help yourself with real ascension (i.e., raising your level in order to bring the HM in more fully) is what GAs are all about.
bringing heaven to earth. :)

thank you, this was more emotional for me then expected.
but im glad that most places have it better then us and that we do seem to follow them a bit, ever so slowly.
say, does this golden age you mentioned have any links to the yuga calendar?

http://theyugas.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Main-Yuga-Spiral-without-pe1.jpg
does earth undergo periods of raising its vibratory level and slowly declining again?
has this been a major reason for our behaviour and lost knowledge?

in regards to past lives, i just had the idea of the possibility to look into the lives of historic figures. see what their intentions were and what motivated them. but i suppose ones own past should hold more valuable information.

regards,
ika

TraineeHuman

13th December 2014, 23:53

If there's one thing I'm totally certain about and absolutely know, it's that consciousness (at the HM level and higher) strictly speaking has no vibration at all, no "density" at all, whatsoever. But to see that this is the truth you would have to go into Superconsciousness at least, and that's a level quite beyond the HM levels. There are far more things in heaven than Horatio has ever even dreamed of.

There are various different accounts of "the yugas". These are totally mechanistic, and they therefore can't accurately predict what consciousness or Superconsciousness or Source may do -- because the latter aren't essentially mechanistic, at all. It's not just that there are very different accounts of when "Kali Yuga" supposedly has ended or will end. In the 1960s and 1970s we saw the development of two branches of mathematics called catastrophe theory and chaos theory. Catastrophe theory proved mathematically, particularly when combined with chaos theory, that even mechanical forces will sometimes very suddenly behave "wildly" -- in a very extreme way, perhaps swinging from one end of the spectrum to the other in an instant. How much more so will and does consciousness do.

TraineeHuman

14th December 2014, 09:04

im currently wondering how guardian angels would react if their fosterling would start to become a serial killer, or in any other way would continually hurt people.
whats the common reaction (besides more weeping?), how would they change their interactions with the person?
is there a common pattern, or do they genereally consult with others and higher beings for an individual.. solution?

Even the very sociopathic, destructive folk will probably still have guardian angels, though it's true that sometimes guardian angels "resign" and there's a time gap while replacements get organised. The guardian angels will still be working to help such people, through dreams and also through tirelessly setting up learning situations in the individual's life. That help will have some small effect, though it may take lifetimes before the penny drops and the individual realizes how destructive they have totally been, at heart. But this is a free will planet, so everything hinges on the individual's voluntary insights into themself. Meanwhile the individual is on a very long journey through the dark side of learning true sovereignty and right empowerment. Some have suggested it's even necessary for everyone to go through such a period of doing things wrongly before they can ever learn to do them constructively.

That's how GASs work, and also how one's HM works. Gentle hints, and setting up situations from behind the scenes, situations from which the individual maybe almost never takes the hint but still gets slightly influenced to have some insight that's in a slightly better direction than before. The GAs operate at much the same dimensional levels as the HM, and in some ways they are alter egos of what one's HM would be if it descended and the individual became empowered with its greater power.

Our dreams and OB journeys are all in fact messages from our HM, striving to subtly warn us away from what our most unfortunate decisions might be, or of difficult or dangerous situations we are setting ourselves up to walk into. But one difficulty is, we need to "translate" what the HM was communicating at a formless level, and we do this through using our mental and astral body. These, however, are flawed, limited, afflicted by our neuroses and attachments and so on. This is a major reason why we almost never get to describe or record our dreams with full accuracy. In this thread, I happen to know I was present at at least 80% of all the dreams and OBEs that have been described here so far. I would say I was watching as or from my HM, and in each case the view was somewhat different from what the member in question described, but still recognisably the same scene or message or movie. But the way my mental and astral bodies will distort the actual message from the HM will be different from how the member's mental and astral bodies will have compromised its accuracy; and in both cases there will be distortion.

You are evidently very open to receiving feedback, Ikarusion. That is an extremely admirable quality, and a very smart way to be, in life generally. Actually, I found that with each individual who described their dreams, all their dreams seemed to me like variations of the same old thing in each case. I'd like to now offer a rough description of one of the major themes that I seem to hear coming through all of your own dreams so far.

In this physical world, the fact is, your body is nearly always in touch with the ground physically. I detect some kind of warning for you to, similarly, plant firmer "roots" in the mundane (so that you won't be adrift), the admittedly (for most) quite boring physical world, all the day-to-day physical trivialities and the finiteness and ordinariness and imperfection we are continually exposed to in earning a living and in looking after our bodies and in honoring and enjoying the biological lifecycle of sexuality and potentially caring for children. If a tree doesn't first build strong roots in the ground, the wind will blow it away, regardless of how beautiful and extensive the blossoms may be that it grows above the ground. I hope this makes sense.

We have seen how the levels above the physical are a Many Possible Worlds reality, while at the physical level it seems there is only one possible world. The uniqueness of that world in itself concentrates and gathers all one's Many Worlds energies that are there at the emotional and mental levels, all into one place, and that gives us balance and focus.

TraineeHuman

15th December 2014, 02:40

There's a certain point, a certain higher level, where consciousness itself gets lost in (higher) being. Just pure being, everywhere. And that's where the consciousness turns into Superconsciousness. I'd like to throw out some pointers to where to hopefully find a spark or two of Superconsciouness clearly at work in us.

The first pointer is, Superconsciousness is the part of us that can simultaneously see all the many, many Possible Worlds, or individual timelines, that are available to us at each moment. It communicates a sense of what it can see down to our lower levels of consciousness, even though these may receive only a vague sense, perhaps a vague yearning. But a beauitiful one, that's for sure.

Secondly, everything to do with Infinite consciousness, or any direct experience of infinity, has to do with the Superconsciousness. Any direct sense of the Infinite. Notice, though, that Infinity -- being kind of able to do the impossible in some ways -- can divide itself into several different states of consciousness at the same time. It can be both partly static and partly dynamic at the same time. Strangely, all activity is really something that gets thrown up by the Silence that is there like some great ocean lying underneath everything and both witnessing and supporting everything. Reality, in the big picture, is a strange place.

Thirdly, Superconsciousness is what you will get whenever you may successfully go beyond the distinction between subject and object. There's a strange kind of self-absorption here, though the Self here is really beyond even being an "I" (in the sense of any longer being a pure subject, rather than just an interrelatedness). A piece by Ken Wilber that animovado found, that's quoted in post #1726
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=862829&viewfull=1#post862829
is mostly all about the Superconsciousness and what it's like, though partly also about Source.

Maybe, though, it's easier to look at the adverb: Superconsciously. "Super" just means "above (the usual level)". A little kind of like how a short-sighted person gets a bit of what we can call "super"-vision when they wear spectacles that correct for myopia. At present, from this point, I'd like to reserve the word "(just) consciousness" to mean the HM's (or the Witness's) consciousness, rather than the lower level of "consciousness", or at least sentience, that humans or animals also have by virtue of possessing physical senses and, at least in the case of humans, a self-conscious sense of some individuality.

Experiencing something at a higher level than the normal HM's experience is analogous to, or, rather, maybe the opposite of, what we experience subconsciously. What does the latter include? Certainly our dark side, and various instincts, identities, mechanical habits and mechanical mindsets or preferences. Yes, and "then there's more": it also includes Source, and (usually) Superconsciousness if not the HM as well. When people say things like: "The true you is Source itself", this is what it means. You're only experiencing and being Source sub-consciously, unknowingly. No more than that at present, for most individuals, apart from hints and vague sensings here and there. In one sense it's kind of like how Big Pharma's drugs always have "side-effects". Those "side" effects are true effects of the drug just as much as any others, but they're effects which the manufacturers (hopefully) didn't intend.

TraineeHuman

20th December 2014, 01:31

Eckankar has centers in various countries. I've recently visited the one in my city. I did visit it once around thirty years ago. At that time they were promoting the idea that if I joined, I too could learn to astral travel. That didn't appeal to me very much because I already knew how to do so.

This time, I found that their core activity, at least in my city, is to have a lecture or other presentation (including some on-screen notes plus a short video from the Eck Grand Master, Harold Klemp), plus plenty of discussion in groups of four or five. Clearly, a number of the attendees have been doing this for many years. They help facilitate the validation of everyone's point of view, but also the discussion of how one might resolve two or more apparently contradictory views. The choice of discussion topics so far has been very shrewd. The most recent meeting, which I wasn't able to attend, had the theme of "heaven on earth", which I would consider a wonderful choice of topic. All the attendees seem to have a very committed take on making spirituality real in their lives, and that impressed me too.

At one of the two meetings I've attended so far, one individual claimed to be a "master" at controlling everything in her life to make things always turn out very successfully, and in accordance with the Law of Attraction. I was quick to suggest that surrender to whatever one understands to be the Divine Will is also necessary, particularly if one wants to be free of unhappiness. I also tried to explain very briefly, as simply as possible, that the "energy" of the Divine isn't personal, so that to surrender to it is not to go passive at all, but rather to stop being an obstacle to its free action. And that if one is trying to, as it were, force things to turn out favorably for oneself through continually using strong intention, that perhaps suggests that there is some underlying suffering one is seeking to escape from. I did also acknowledge, though, that certainly one can cultivate strong intention in such a way that one can achieve absolutely anything that one wants. The only problem is, can you keep the ego. or the personal, out of that? Because you need to be careful what you ask for, as you can get precisely that and then regret it. The group seemed to reach a tentative summary conclusion that one needs to use both of the above: skillful intention, and surrender to the Divine, and that it's a matter of "balance". Two of the most experienced members were eager for me to elaborate further about how "surender" fits in here, but I was content to let the "Law of Attraction" true believer stay with her own truth, with, I'm sure, at least a palpable perception that there is indeed more to the mastery of life than the Law of Attraction.

Two excellent videos about soul travel, featuring a man also claiming to be the Grand Master of Eckankar, have been posted in this thread here:
post #1356
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=760710&viewfull=1#post760710

and post #1353
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=760181&viewfull=1#post760181

It seems that there are several "splinter group" versions of Eckankar, but that seems fine to me.

TraineeHuman

21st December 2014, 09:41

The Infinite, even more so than the soul/HM, is something which we'll normally only begin to experience as the result of doing extensive work on ourselves. If we've done enough of that, then in meditation we may have the experience of our scope of awareness expanding more and more, until at some point it seems to become infinite, and feels like it has. For many, many years from childhood on I used to meditate with my eyes open or half-open. When in my adolescence I tried mantra meditation, I could clearly feel how the "circle" of the physical world around me that I was imbuing with awareness just then seemed to grow bigger and bigger, until it seemed to go all the way to the horizon, and then somehow even further. (Maybe I could do this because for a few years prior to the start of my adolescence the circumstances of my life had forced me to face some tough things fast, including, among other things, my parents' divorce, my stepfather quickly becoming an alcoholic and then he and my mother going bankrupt, and, in retrospect, his having been schizophrenic from even before when he married my mother).

Until that time when we're ready to see it, after whatever extensive inner work we need to go through, "the infinite" will seem to us to be more a matter of merely infinite non-existence, such as infinite and blind empty space. Empty space in which almost everything behaves automatically and where existence itself is totally accidental, and where all forces are essentially blind and robotic.

But the truth is, for all of us the totality of the infinite consciousness exists behind the curtain for now. Only whenever we manage to go beyond our self-imposed limited awareness do we discover its power and presence. We are our own "prison guards". I don't believe the Earth is a prison planet, actually, except in this sense.

Earlier in this thread I've talked about learning to "be one with" others or other things, in our inner consciousness. I had hoped that some members would take to that exercise, and then use it as a natural stepping stone to seeing and feeling the all-pervading consciousness that sees all things as equal, so to speak. Almost anyone who practices intensive meditation will experience direct though perhaps fleeting glimpses of that consciousness within a few months or so anyway, as will anyone who goes OB to any formless dimension. In that consciosuness we see and feel an extraordinary apparent emptiness as present before the world ever was, but also we get a glimpse that everyone and everything is one and indivisible. And that's one example of the mind-boggling greater powers that the Superconsciousness begins to open up for us. Even though we initially experience it in a state of perhaps very frustrating silence, and passivity, and aloofness. That's frustrating even though at that point it's clear to us that we are experiencing some"where" that's beyond time and quite beyond the sayable.

Could the Divine Will for each individual us be something hidden deep inside us? Could it be something in our "sub"conscious that nevertheless is part of our own selves? Could we have a much greater Will sleeping inside our very own selves? And if we somehow discover how to tap it and surrender to it as our "own", will we discover that it itself is gloriously free, so much so as to make the conscious "free will" we already know of look shabby and very puppet-like, and bound up in the errors of its own petty motives?

TraineeHuman

22nd December 2014, 10:16

One of Dolores Cannon's public appearances was to give the keynote lecture at the 1998 Mid-South Dowsers' Conference (near her home). That lecture covered the subject of the power of "the mind" (my inverted commas). Here's an excerpt from it, which (following on from the post before last) I'm quoting as a good example of the kind of statement that fans of the Law of Attraction might assert. Then, in my next post, I'll do my best to explain why such a statement is incomplete, and therefore really only partially true or accurate. This is also relevant to why the exercise at PA some months ago, where various teams of members were focusing their attention together on certain problem areas in our world, presumably didn't work as powerfully as they had expected or hoped. Anyone else's views or comments are very welcome. Here's the quote from Dolores:

I'm a living example of "Be careful what you ask for, you might get it!" You've got to realize the power of your mind. If you really want anything, you can achieve it. But then, after you get it, what are you going to do with it? ...

You have to know how to harness the power of your mind. But you don't realize how powerful it is because our energy attention is scattered. Our energy goes in all different directions. You have to learn how to focus your attention on what it is you want. Once you do that, it must happen. It is a law of the universe, and miracles can happen once you learn how to harness your mental power and focus it.

But you have to know what it is you want. Too many people say, "Well, I guess this is what I want." They're very vague about it. You have a vague idea of what you want to accomplish, in which case that's what you'll get -- a vague idea.

In order to create your reality [sic] you have got to know exactly what you want, because you have to fill it full of details. Everything that's in your life right now you have created, you've drawn to you. A lot of people don't like to admit that because sometimes there are some things in their lives they are not very happy about. Once you realize you have brought something into your life, you can just as easily un-create it. You begin to realize, "Oh, yeah, I don't want this any more," and you can take it out of your life the same way it came in.

TraineeHuman

22nd December 2014, 11:35

Firstly, it's not just a matter of being focused and precise enough. Let's take "focused" first. I prefer instead to talk about being "one-pointed", which implies a very great intensity of focus. And paradoxically, you can't be one-pointed ("narrwoed down") unless you are being total ("very wide, very even throughout"). You have to be internally all united at that moment. And most people simply can't be like that, not fully enough for this magic to truly work. That's because they're chronically too weighed down by the distractions and temptations of their can-of-worms ego and their interfering desires for this or that instead. In order to be very united within yourself like that, your whole inner world needs to be united. Your inner chaos needs to be substantially stilled. Not perfectly so, but substantially. And that will only happen if you are at a certain higher state of consciousness -- namely, at least a level of consciousness where you are at that moment stably united with your HM.

It doesn't matter how precise you may be regarding what you want to happen. Nor that you are concentrating as hard as you can, at present. The sad truth is, most people simply won't be able to concentrate hard enough, because they're not accessing a state of true inner unity.

Second point. Let's look at the question of being precise enough. Again, this is a paradoxical topic. Because it's really a matter of being able to pick the outcome you want out of all other possible outcomes. And that requires some kind of ability to "scan" all the other possible outcomes. This is something that professional remote viewers often manage to do extremely well. But what kind of consciousness, exactly, does it require to be able to search through all possible worlds/timelines? Again, I suggest this beyond most individuals. It requires the ability to access Superconsciousness, at least in flashes. No doubt Dolores had reached these levels of consciousness, whether she knew she had or not. And certainly, if one holds an extremely strong intention to realize some result, and holds it as something altogether more important than anything else in one's own life, and if one raises one's level of consciousness through months or years of intensive meditation and self-facing and so on, then there's hope.

In the meantime, of course, you do influence your workmates, your customers/clients, your family, and your friends considerably, for better or worse, according to the quality of your consciousness, and quite often unwittingly so. Maybe you'll even happen to have a major influence for the better art certain times, on the organisation you work for, or on your whole neighborhood or clan.

Orph

22nd December 2014, 15:36

In this physical world, the fact is, your body is nearly always in touch with the ground physically. I detect some kind of warning for you to, similarly, plant firmer "roots" in the mundane (so that you won't be adrift), the admittedly (for most) quite boring physical world, all the day-to-day physical trivialities and the finiteness and ordinariness and imperfection we are continually exposed to in earning a living and in looking after our bodies and in honoring and enjoying the biological lifecycle of sexuality and potentially caring for children. If a tree doesn't first build strong roots in the ground, the wind will blow it away, regardless of how beautiful and extensive the blossoms may be that it grows above the ground. I hope this makes sense.

Makes sense to me. (even though the answer was for someone else). My dreams are, ........ well, .... chaotic. Everything is always in a constant state of morphing from one thing to another. This life is such a struggle sometimes because I don't seem to be making any progress. It's discouraging. But then, we keep going on anyway because, ... well, ... there is no "stop" button. :)

TraineeHuman

23rd December 2014, 01:53

This topic of chaos is a huge one. Firstly, Orph, I offer some well-deserved congratulatioms at your coming face to face with the extraordinary complexity of your own being, the often frustrating multitude of sub-personalities in you that leaves you sometimes tossed so much this way and that in confusion. That realization is something. Congratulations on already being a step beyond the "average" person who relies on the pub or TV or gossip or work or whatever to block it all out. Because, Orph, you don't just live on the surface, quite ignorant of the endless chaos going on underneath.

So, you've been watching that turmoil. Desires, tastes and cravings, many thoughts most of which are maybe trivial or at least pretty disconnected, and much the same for various drives or urges. A roller coaster of feeling quite OK some days then rotten on others, little joys one day and griefs another, on and on, most of them not amounting to much really, most of the time. And somehow life arranges it all into a tolerable disorder. A whole inner world lying before you that you have to understand and conquer, now that you've already taken the first red pill. No turning back, not after that first red pill.

What to do? you wonder. Well over half your thoughts and feelings aren't even your own, you notice. That makes it all that much harder, doesn't it? In the the traditional spiritual systems and schools etc, the next step was to simplify things by giving you the red pill of concentrating all your attention on one of two things, leaving the other activities of life behind as far as possible, and closing off from them for a while. Either (mindless, shameless) absorption in "devotion" or the heart and all its intensity, and abandoning the will to do anything else, and kind of being a flower child but without the drugs, and a lover of the beauty of Nature; or just in "obsessive" knowledge (maybe not unlike PA, particularly the Spirituality section) of what the self truly is, and letting the deeper intellectual or intuitive perceptions guide you to real, concrete spiritual experiences eventually.

The endless difficulties that arise from the world outside were traditionally dismissed by erecting a fence of outer physical and inner spiritual solitude; safe behind a wall of inner silence, one remains impassive and untouched by the world and by others. "I am a rock. I am an island."

But today, unfortunately, it seems to be necessary to work on both the above areas at once, and to integrate them with each other very intensively, plus also accepting life just as it is too. Not just our own burdens, but also the burdens of the world around us too, to the extent that they come up for us. That's quite a battle, I agree, much more so than for the "average" person, because the world -- this planet -- isn't in a good state at present. Maybe you're doing all this already, Orph.

What else, then? you're probably wondering. Well, the traditional approach has been to work very, very hard for some time (and longer) on an all-inclusive concentration. It's not that easy. I never promised you a rose garden (except a very considerable way further on, that is). Yes, this does include the mastery of the ability to focus your thought and will and emotions and whatever else on a single idea or object or state, and to hold it there. The ability to "hold" very firmly, very steadily.

But such power is only the more minor, number two skill. Here's the biggie. Some way or other, sooner or later, while in a sober state, you need to let yourself undergo, and continue to undergo, a wide massive opening, a harmonised concentration of the whole being, in all its parts and through all its powers, on the One that is the All, on the totality of all there is. Can you drop everything, leave all behind? What would happen if you just managed to do that for ten minutes, always knowing you could then pick everything up again (with all the suffering) if that was what you wanted to do afterwards? This has to be a totally dedicated, all-pervasive act. It has to be a leaving of everything else for the Pearl of Great Price, the diamond buried in your backyard that's worth far more than anything else you'll find in your whole life.

Do you dare to reach for the Divine itself? Will you dare to be so outrageously ambitious? It's a huge plunge, and it requires huge, unmovable concentration too, plus a flaming heart yearning for the great ecstasy, plus a huge openness and flexibility to let the Higher pour into you.

I know, you'll probably be asking how you can concentrate so profoundly on something you don't know. Well, somehow you have to find a way to concentrate deeply on the Divine. And to keep at it for as long as it takes. Just do it. Do the "what", and that will take care of the "how", because somewhere deep inside you there already is a magical being.

Orph

23rd December 2014, 02:14

Thanks for the reply. It makes sense. For the last couple of years or so I've had this deep feeling that I should just literally walk away from it all. But this feeling isn't one of giving up, but rather, it's like what you mentioned in your post above. I've had trouble understanding the feeling, but it's like the door is there. I know I will have to walk through that door. I feel I'm gathering the strength at this time. When the time comes, I will know. Thanks again for the insights.

TraineeHuman

25th December 2014, 07:21

this feeling isn't one of giving up, but rather, it's like ... the door is there. I know I will have to walk through that door.

One exercise you might like to try, Orph, towards developing the ability to experiencing the One that is the All, is the following.

Wherever you are in your daily life, whenever you get reminded, in a split-second (or in a longer time if that's what it takes) make the "space" you are aware of physically bigger, in every direction. Then hold the expanded "space" at the bigger size while you go about doing whatever you're doing. Hold it big, the longer the better.

It's really not "empty space" at all, but, rather, it's expanded awareness at least of what's going on at the physical and energetic level. If there are any people or animals in that expanded area, you can eventually both send and receive feelings and information, covering all of that area.

Great performers, and charismatic speakers/politicians/coaches, instinctively learn to do this exercise throughout the time they're performing to an audience.

Also try this exercise in a place of great natural beauty where there aren't so many people around. Nature will then reflect back to you the great peace of your own HM, pure and uncorrupted.

You have to keep at it and not give up. But then, if at some time you should need to give a brief speech or a toast at a function in the future, you'll be able to do it easily. And everyone will think: "Wow! What a speaker!"

This exercise does involve promoting feelings more and having more sensations. More, not less. It doesn't make you any more vulnerable, though, in the sense of being a target for psychic attack or whatever. On the contrary, it makes you bigger and stronger, and more in touch.

TraineeHuman

26th December 2014, 10:29

In response to a question from Ikarusion: Is the high-pitched ringing sound apparently in one's head a benevolent energy or not, or is it maybe neutral? Seven or eight or more months ago, and for a few months after that time, that sound would seem to often hugely interfere with my being able to meditate properly. And when I had gone to bed, it would sometimes prevent me from falling asleep within half an hour or so. I tentatively assumed it therefore wasn't a benevolent energy, whatever it was. I did also suspect, though, that it somehow had much to do with the fact that the solar system is currently passing through a region of space where it receives far more electromagnetic, and indeed what's known as "cosmic" electromagnetic, radiation than it has in many thousands of years.

By the time I started a thread on this subject here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72824-Has-anyone-else-been-hearing-the-high-pitched-ringing-or-humming-sound

I was already leaning towards considering the highish-pitched sound to be something largely benevolent, at least in my case. This had come about because I had initially on the contrary gone with the hypothesis that there was something malevolent or at best neutral about it. But various little details I had carefully observed in my own experience, and that added up when taken together, had seemed to contradict that hypothesis. Not only that, but I now wonder whether the sound isn't just a sound but, rather, something benevolently intelligent, something that sometimes immediately interacts with one's thoughts about it. It's been with me right now, throughout the time I've been writing this, no doubt to let me know it knows I'm intensively pondering it.

Today I only hear the sound occasionally, mostly before falling asleep. I usually meditate for a few minutes not long before going to sleep. Plus I do some mildly elaborate other things to raise my consciousness and psychically protect myself and my bedroom. This is intended to ensure I have a decidedly "upward" direction of motion, so to speak, as I go to sleep. That's on the theory that once I've initially gone higher it's unlikely I'll drop down much while I'm sleeping. So, on nights when I do hear the sound while falling asleep, I only hear it after having raised my consciousness a little.

These days, the sound always seems beautiful to me, and in that respect seems to have changed considerably from how it was initially. It functions as a kind of meditation aid as I fall asleep.

This whole "benevolent or not", or "'good' or 'evil'", question is a subtle one. It's raised in the video by Lorgen and Bartley that Bill Ryan has included in the latest PA newsletter. One topic mentioned in that video is that some people consider themselves to have been raped by reptoids. It so happens I used to once have a (human) spiritual teacher and psychotherapist who I in retrospect know had some particularly strong reptoid qualities. I initially went to him for "alternative" psychotherapy and coaching in "energy" skills. But for the first two or three months --as he noticed -- on an inner level I tried to in effect subtly give him psychotherapy and healing. That was because he seemed so attached to self-indulgence even though he also had mastery of various skills, and even though he was outwardly in charge of the one-to-one sessions.

What I particularly wanted to learn, and learn from, were some of the extraordinary skills he had in moderately higher dimensions. But after a few months he told me he how he had just discovered how to have sex with women on an astral level while they were sleeping. I put it to him that if this was done without the women's consent, then surely it was rape, even if "only" at an astral level. He replied that almost 90% of the women involved had clearly enjoyed the experience, according to him. He did at least concede that the remainder had felt sickened by it. I mentioned that whereas he could clearly distinguish between what was happening just at an astral level as distinct from the physical, presumably many of the women involved couldn't. He agreed that this was a valid point, and promised not to continue. He said that instead he would from that point on confine himself to physical relations with romantic partners. I believe he was true to his word.

However, partly because of this I regarded him as a kind of anti- role model: someone I didn't want to become like in many important respects. Even though he did also have highly developed skills which he used for the benefit of his clients and students. In retrospect, I would say that because of this for some years I put too much emphasis on developing myself at higher dimensional levels but somewhat neglecting the physical level, because of what I had seen in him. Several years later, before we parted company, he was quite saddened. He had learnt, from some apparently 100% reliable source, that after his death he wasn't likely to be freed of the need to reincarnate in the physical, as he had supposed. But to me this didn't seem so surprising, because in spite of his skills he was still way too attached to certain forms of self-indulgence in the physical.

You might also like to check out the above thread, Ikarusion. Some of the info others came up with was very interesting.

TraineeHuman

28th December 2014, 04:59

We all have a psychic (and intuitive) level of being, but in most it's largely dormant. That psychic level is what the HM is. The true value of astral and mental and soul travel, as I see it, is that that's a major way for our psychic being to wake from its slumbers and stretch its muscles, so to speak -- and show us that it's part of us and it's really always there.

There are various different "methods" for achieving soul travel, but the traditional way was through the use of one or more mantras. In this post I'd like to begin to present my understanding of how mantras work. For this to make sense, though, you do of course need to turn the computer off and practice, if you haven't done so already.

I've been fortunate enough to have experienced quite a deal of soul travel either just spontaneously or through being escorted and guided by evolved beings. Admittedly, that is an easier way to do it. I've also done my best to sometimes try to quietly and discreetly assist some contributors to this thread in the astral -- though without as much success as I'd hoped. But unless one is receiving such help, by far the best method, in my experience, is through mantras. This is also the method used by Eckankar.

Before one begins to learn any kind of mantra practice, traditionally one is guided in learning how to create a great inner calm, empty -- temporarily, at least -- of one's lower passions and addictions and desires. This is very important. Firstly because when one moves into the lower astral all the senses and all the passions and addictions and desires get magnified there. Secondly, it's important because one needs to empty one's cup of the lower first before one has room to receive much of the higher. These are the deeper reasons behind the teaching to first practice yama and niyama. Which is not to deny, either, that it's also very helpful here to consciously practice behaving decently and ethically and unselfishly.

At the Eckankar meetings I've attended, their version of a group meditation is that everyone makes the sound "Hu--u-u-u" as they breathe out, in their own time. Most of them seem to do this at a pitch close to G or C, but the pitch doesn't seem to matter. "Clearly", the true highest name of God must be Hugh, one might say.

I'll have more remarks about the use of mantras and my reflections on Eckankar shortly. Does anyone have anything thatthey would like to share regarding their experience with mantras? And I do of course strongly urge anyone interested in mastering or beginning OB travel to give the "method" of mantras a proper "workout".

Let me jump the gun a little, though, and explain there seem to be three stages one goes through in mantra meditation. First there's a disconnection of the mind and the senses from outward things -- though one retains some degree of awareness of one's physical body, and probably of its breathing.

The second stage is one of strong concentration, of one-pointedness: on the mantra to the exclusion of all else that could enter one's mind.

Thirdly, there's just the experience of oneness (at some level or other) and nothing else -- even after the mantra has stopped. Or else, for some, a profound and very agreeable and unperturbed quietness, and nothing else.

TraineeHuman

30th December 2014, 08:32

I used to wonder how a physical sound such as a mantra, or a physical practice such as qi gong and so on, could possibly bring one's consciousness into a non-physical and even a formless space. Eventually it dawned on me, though, that what such practices must somehow do is to majorly loosen our ties to the physical, emotional and mental. At least, loosen these enough for us to then begin to experience whatever lies beyond.

Even if a mantra is said out loud rather than in one's head, it's actually five-dimensional (electromagnetic) rather than just physical. Miraculously, our brain has evolved certain extensions known as ears, which receive certain five-dimensional energies that we know as sound, and hence we think of sound as just physical and everyday.

In Eckankar they talk of all OB travel as "Soul travel". That's Soul with a capital S. By this they don't mean the small s "soul" that's the HM. Rather, they say that Soul is "a spark of God", or "a child of God". They also refer to what I would usually call the Divine or universal worlds as "the worlds of Soul".

Eckankar insists that Soul "travel" doesn't really involve any travel at all. Rather, that the flying feeling many experience is simply the feeling of various adjustments that go on within one because one is shifting gears, so to speak, possibly to the Soul level and certainly to a higher level than the physical. I suggest this is a better and clearer way of explaining something which I did my best to communicate early on in this thread. As we shift our awareness fully to a higher level, of course the entire environment we perceive must be changed radically, without our moving in any other sense than that our awareness moves upward.

Unfortunately, most of the members taking part in the thread at that time didn't seem to manage to make much sense of what I was trying to say. But the Eckankar explanation certainly makes huge sense to me in terms of my own experiences of feeling like I was flying (or hovering). In the first two years or so when I was intensively practicing astral or mental "travel", the flying feeling would usually be accompanied by OB vision of any of various kinds of "landscapes" whizzing by. But after the first two years or less, I somehow most of the time became less and less interested any more in watching the "movies" that seemed to be whizzing by me or through me, nor in the "scenery", even though that usually wasn't by this stage recognisably from the physical world. For a further five years or so, though, I found the flying feeling exquisitely pleasurable, even though most of the time it was no longer accompanied by scenery. The sweet gentle thrill of flying seemed to be enough, just in itself. Then, eventually, even that thrill seemed to have become almost passe, because my attention seemed to now be drawn towards subtler areas.

At certain levels not really that far above the physical and electromagnetic, I believe this sort of principle also explains how ETs can "travel" at much greater speeds than that of light, simply by "warping" or "folding" space-time.

eaglespirit

30th December 2014, 09:24

Hello TraineeHuman and All visiting this thread and sharing and doing the work and expanding experience,
and, well, life and love : )

I have not been here at this thread for quite some time and today was able to do some reading and perusing.

Wonderful and Beautiful and filled with Higher and Selfless Diligence.

Kudos and Honor, TraineeHuman and All...
Onward and Upward and Beyond Beyond with Love, Love, Love : )

Aho Mitakuye Oyasin!

TraineeHuman

31st December 2014, 06:15

One practice that has seen some discussion earlier in this thread has been that of grounding. My own thoughts regarding what this ideally involves have changed somewhat. It's particularly appropriate to revisit this topic once we're willing to accept that, at least maybe, OB "travel" really isn't travel at all, but rather it involves a different way or level of being.

Also relevant here are the notions of descension and of bi-location, which also have been mentioned and discussed earlier. I'll assume you're willing to take it for granted, as I do, that the optimal evolvement we're all ultimately heading towards is a state of descension -- of being strongly aware of the Divine level of our own being yet at the very same time being fully present in and interacting with the physical world and human society. Clearly, the second part of this involves being grounded -- but also in some sense "bi-located".

If at some time we find we're not grounded but wish to become so, certain types of exercises are popular to do at that point. I now prefer to call all these forms of "earthing". By "earthing" I mean connecting energetically to the ground. (The easiest way to do this that I know of is probably just to turn both your palms to a horizontal position and hold them in that position, even if you're on the fiftieth floor of some giant building.) My investigations of this have come to the conclusion that most types of earthing will indeed temporarily ground one -- in the sense of getting one's energy meridians to flow in a balanced way --, but that many of those methods also have unfortunate consequences. And I won't even mention the evidence that "earthing mats" apparently don't deliver as claimed, according to many.

The problem is that many parts of the Earth have biologically harmful (or positive-ion dominated) energy coming from the ground. For instance, we know that around one in four homes lies above an underground stream, and that in such a home one statistically has over ten times the likelihood of developing cancer. It turns out that the energy immediately reaching one from the ground is in many locations negative, anti-life, and not only as a result of underground streams. Taking one's shoes off and walking barefoot won't magically change such energy into something positive, by any means.

What we ideally need to do instead is to learn how to make our energy flow down into the earth, but not let the earth energy flow up into our bodies unless that energy really is positive. Admittedly, it's true that kundalini is very positive energy (if we're ready for it) and it flows up us regardless of whether the ground otherwise has healthy energy at that location or not. But kundalini experiences are rare, and in any case that's a flow of energy in the astral and mental and various higher planes in addition to occurring in the physical.

kritter

1st January 2015, 01:24

Hi TraineeHuman,

Below is a copy of a post from me. I was told that this was a Kundalini experience. The post was made on the Spirituality> Healing forum, if you want to take a look. I am so inexperienced and my successes are hit and miss at best. I also had a strange experience the next day when I did an hour long third eye unblocking meditation. Ever since then, I have been unable to be successful in meditating and I have, I feel, been harassed. I have been hesitant to try again because of it. Would you have any advise for me?

Thank you for all your posts! Very interesting and informative.

kritter

Default Chakra healing meditation....What just happened?
Hello all - I'm still fairly new here. I started to learn meditation on my own about a year ago, but I have had a hard time meditating lately for unknown reasons. Any way, I decided that what I needed the most right now is to unblock my chakras so I found this hour long chakra healing video on Youtube. I darkened the room and got comfortable on the bed and began. All this happened just prior to posting this.

As usual, I started by getting my whole body to relax and then began to imagine the top of my head opening up from the center of my head down to the base of my skull and letting in a flood of white light that worked its way down opening up each chakra and clearing out any darkness and negativity. At the same time I was imagining that I was opening up my third eye and sending out energy to the universe and expanding my aura.

Then I had the thought that I wanted to connect to the earth and try and ground myself, so I imagined a root starting at my head running down through each chakra connecting them and out the bottoms of my feet and down through the building and deep into the earth, branching out to connect to the trees, grass and plants. I proceeded to tell the earth that I loved her and I wanted to help her heal. That I loved her waters and trees and animals living in and on her. I told her I was listening and asked the earth what I could do to help. I thought of the GMO's and started to talk to the GMO organisms and told them not to cooperate and grow the way they were manipulated to grow. That they need to return to their original state and only grow the way the earth had intended them to.

I then told the earth that I don't know why I can have such a love for her but not feel connected to the human race. I said I think it is because so many are ruining her and it hurts deeply to see it happening and that I was very sorry it was happening. Once again, I offered my help.

All of the sudden I had a bad stabbing pain in my chest and quickly realized it was my heart chakra. I thought that it must be something that needed to get out or to be released. So I gave it permission to be released. I told myself to let it go.

Quite suddenly, I literally burst into a crying fit! I was crying so hard that I was gasping for breath. As soon as I said, "let it go" it was upon me! This went on for the rest of the video till the very end, which was about maybe 10 minutes or so? I just laid there and kept telling myself it is okay, just let it all go - let it all happen. The pain went away and I stated to calm down and was over it by the time the meditation session came to the end.

I slowly got up and felt in my chest a lighter feeling, as if I had more room to breath and take deep breaths. So my question is: What just happened??? Can anyone enlighten me on what I just experienced?

TraineeHuman

2nd January 2015, 00:09

Hi kritter,

First, there are two types of kundalini-risen experiences, as far as I know. One involves a significant psychological breakthrough, while the other type includes a ginormous psychological breakthrough and also an enlightenment experience -- almost continual effortless bliss for days afterward, plus the felt discovery that one truly and literally is God. I've done a quick intuitive reading remotely, and it looks to me like you haven't had either of these. Also that you haven't had an incomplete -- a not completed -- version of (half of) the first type of experience. Though if you had, that would be something that could potentially leave you feeling very uncomfortable when you tried to sit very still. The term "kundalini" or "kundalini energy" does mean the same thing as bio-energy (or chi, or prajna), but a "kundalini (risen) experience" means something very specific: the conversion of some bio-energy into pure awareness and into a meeting with the entire universe, once it rises above the head in a certain way.

It looks like some energy did get stuck at your heart level. Such stuck energy can definitely be uncomfortable. I've now made an attempt to remotely heal and move that stuck energy, but it's already gone so there's nothing there to heal. The only thing left now, as far as I can tell, is an unpleasant memory. Also, I suspect that what you call "meditation" is what I call visualization. (Yes?) That may not be so important as far as this goes, except that I'd suggest you might like, instead of visualizations, to try a form of meditation such as the "watching the breath" one described in an earlier post, which I've included a big quote from below; and except for all the following comments of mine. By the way, my intuition strongly suggests you can already now do forms of what I consider to be valid "meditation" without feeling stuck or whatever.

I do have some remarks about the use of visualization that are disapproving in nature. Sorry, but I tend to be very honest and forthright. I don't know how much of this thread you've read. But in it it so happens I've gone to considerable lengths (far greater than my readers have probably imagined) to as far as possible carefully describe only safe ways to do various exercises or experience certain things. In spite of that, and in spite of my warnings against doing so, some if not many posters in this thread have blithely charged ahead with using such things as visualizations and self-hypnosis willy nilly, and in some cases even drugs. From my point of view, such use of visualizations is like walking off a cliff or playing with fire -- as your own experience, very unfortunately, clearly illustrates.

Admittedly, in this case I'm sure you must have had an adverse reaction because in some way, as you say, you got frightened. If you hadn't gotten frightened, I expect it would have gone perfectly OK in this case. However, if one does want to make oneself open to a kundalini risen experience of the major kind (the second kind I mentioned at the beginning), one needs to be totally fearless. (And a kundalini risen experience of the second kind doesn't come to one naturally and spontaneously unless one is already fearless.) That's why quite a few -- most -- individuals just aren't ready for it yet. One first needs to have largely mastered fear itself. Have you? Not trying to be personal, but the great majority of people haven't mastered fear yet. One also needs to be prepared for the experience in certain other ways beforehand too.

Some transcendental skills or experiences can take half a lifetime, if not a number of lifetimes, to develop. There simply are no shortcuts here. Rather like the way I'm afraid you don't become an international standard concert pianist, if you've never played the piano as yet, just by sitting down in front of the keyboard in front of a paying audience and visualizing extra hard that you already are such a professional master pianist. Likewise, the beginner at becoming a master pianist will be ignorant of all the traps that a more experienced person will take care to avoid. Had you walked in my shoes and been aware of all the traps I know of, you'd see the situation regarding visualizations differently, I can assure you. The Eastern meditation traditions have thousands of years of accumulated expertise about this. At a rough guess, I'd dare say that's vastly more than what the people who made those so-called "meditation" videos on youtube have. I've lived with kundalini energies on occasions most of my life, but I'm still no expert by any means. Not by a long chalk. To be expert here, one needs some somewhat freakish mind-over-body skills, which I don't have. About the best I have is things like, I can take any number of vitamin, etc supplements and in combination they should be incompatible but somehow I can get my body to adapt so that they don't harm it and they don't act like they're incompatible at all.

Visualizing energies coming down from above or below and then flowing into your body, as you've done, is to my understanding a matter of using force, I'm afraid. Force is very much at the heart of the ego (the great enemy of meditation and of the soul). Like making a square peg fit into a round hole when it doesn't really fit at all. This is just absolutely not the way of the spirit, of the soul. In effect it's a trap to take you away from there. So, trying to "force" your own Higher Mind to do or be anything different, through visualization or self-hypnosis, is just making things tougher for yourself. It's pushing uphill up a steep slope. I guess the one exception to this is that if you have someone physically accessible face-to face with you who is truly a master of kundalini flows or maybe of acupuncture or something like that, with such a person's aid you can get away with forcing the pace of the flow a little, once it starts. But not without such an expert consultant at hand. All my kundalini risen experiences have taken me by surprise: they don't appear on demand somehow.

Knowledge is largely useless without action, so kudos to you for being willing to take action. Unfortunately, I don't consider the "knowledge" you were drawing on on this occasion to have been reliable.

All forms of meditation take everything away except you. They’re kind of like a scientific experiment, in that sense. However, meditation isn’t dry or mechanical, either.

You really will get more out of every time you meditate if you understand what meditation is about is:
just you watching you.

And when I say “you,” I mean you at your most natural. Just “pure” you. A state with no problems. The “I” behind the “me.”

There’s a strange and fascinating twist, though. Meditation, of any form, is designed in such a way that all the while you keep letting go of all memory of what you were looking at, even one second ago. You keep watching and forgetting. But the watching – the alertness – is vital. So, equally, is the letting go and instant forgetting. Any time you manage to do both of these together: “You’ve got it!” as Henry Higgins might say.

You’ll notice there’s something amazingly loose and easy about that forgetting. It really is in many ways the opposite of keeping yourself on a tight leash. OK, you do it while (probably) sitting quietly, and just paying attention. But inside of you, you completely let yourself run wild. At least, in whatever sense it’s possible to “run wild” when you’re every second dropping and forgetting all thought or emotion.

J. Krishnamurti said ultimately much the same thing in a different way. He said that true meditation does not rigidly follow a path, a discipline, or a method set down by others. Also, that it must not involve discipline, effort, or force. So, forget about trying to do it the “right” way. The more you’ve forgotten everything like that, during meditation, while still being very wide awake and present, the deeper you’ve gone.

Common mistakes

The biggest mistake I have seen in “experienced” meditators is that some of them become experienced in using “meditation” to make themselves duller. We have seen that in meditation one of the major instructions is to not hang on to any thoughts (or memories). But that doesn’t mean shutting down the flow of your natural life-energy and consciousness. Incidentally, your life-energy and consciousness are one and the same as your sexual energy and consciousness – except that in meditation they operate at a subtler and finer and gentler level. So your body doesn’t get sexually aroused. On the other hand, in meditation you do get more and more in contact with the energy and consciousness of genuine love and of gentleness and sensitivity.

The second biggest mistake is a fear or unwillingness to let go; a desire to control what’s going on. You simply drop that.

The other point I must make is that it’s important to make use of the benefits of meditation. Meditation is only useful to you to the extent that it makes you more intelligent, in the true sense of “intelligence.” Yes, it does greatly lessen the intensity of any pain or hurt or fear you have been aware of that day. But you also need to use the greater positivity you gain from meditation to face all the painful things – the things that press your buttons – head-on. That’s something that needs to be done outside of the meditation session. During an actual meditation session, the aim is to completely “switch off” from those painful things. To return to your origin, your source, that was there before the world ever was. No problems.

I should add, though, that there is a constant flow of (for these purposes) rubbish thoughts that doesn't stop. You kind of just learn to turn the volume down with regard to these, or even to ignore them fully.

One further point. If you want to become a professional tennis player, you need to practise, practise, and then practise. Where I’ve said above that discipline and effort aren’t relevant, please don’t jump to the conclusion that you can miss out on daily practice.

Watching the breath

Each form of meditation gives you some instruction to follow. Usually, that instruction is given to you with the understanding that it’s merely a boat to get you across “the river” of your pain-body’s resistance. And that once you get to the “other side of the river,” you don’t need the boat.

In meditation based on watching the breath, that “boat” is the action of watching your breath in a certain way, normally accompanied by something that’s a reminder to let go. To let go of everything, and just allow everything to be exactly as it is. In my experience, for many people watching the breath seems to be the quickest way to learn how to meditate. I have also found that when they learn this method, people don’t seem to veer off into spaces which they will then need to get through before they seem to reach the destination.

Some people learn how to do this form of meditation properly within days, and quite a few within weeks of daily practise. You know when you’ve started really reaching the right place with a vengeance when you start encountering intense joy or love. Soon after, you’ll find that in addition you’ll reach a space of very pleasant peace. You could call that “presence” if you like, because it’s so satisfying and fulfilling, it sure isn’t “nothing”. I guess it’s no-thing, i.e., it’s formless.

Watching the breath – the exercise

Find a quiet place where you won’t be disturbed. It should be indoors, or at least have walls on all sides around you.
Sit in a chair, or at least with your back straight and each arm resting on your upper legs. Very gently close your eyelids.
Pay attention to your breathing. Breathe from your abdomen.

Whenever your body starts to breathe in, silently say “Peace” (or: “Let it be”) to yourself. When it starts to breathe out – and not before --, silently say the same. As you do so, be aware of having the attitude that you’re ever so gently letting go of whatever thoughts come up in your mind.
Keep doing this until you no longer notice your mind silently “speaking” thoughts. At that point, stop saying “Peace” (or “Let it be”).

But if you start to notice any thoughts again, go back to saying “Peace” (or “Let it be”) with each inbreath and outbreath, until they disappear.

When you’re finished, give yourself SEVERAL MINUTES to come out of that trance-like state slowly. Begin by wiggling all your fingers and toes, with the eyes still shut.
When you are ready, open the eyes, but still keep wiggling. Gradually make your body movements bigger. Begin to move your wrists, then your lower arms, and your ankles, then lower legs. As you do, let your eyes and your intuition “register” everything around you, “feeling” its solidity almost as if you were touching it.
Without moving your behind, stretch your arms and legs, and swing them about a little. Finally, move your entire body about, including lifting your behind off the chair.

Warning: At first, don’t combine watching the breath with feeling the aliveness. Equally, it’s OK to practise feeling the aliveness outdoors, but not watching the breath. The reasons are “technical”. I’m certainly not the only practitioner who warns strictly against doing certain forms of meditation outdoors. Most types of traditional movement meditation, such as t’ai chi, qi gong, and hatha yoga are fine. So is feeling the aliveness, and being at one with Nature.

Other forms of meditation
The other forms of meditation generally substitute something else for watching the breath. This can be a mantra, for example (a word or phrase like “Om” or “peace”). In most cases, it is something that you keep repeating – until you get to a space where you stop paying so much attention to your thoughts. The great thing about the watching-the-breath meditation is as follows. Firstly, all the other forms of meditation also require you to keep “letting everything be exactly as it is,” or to keep letting go of thoughts and feelings. Secondly, we are already aware of our breathing all the time anyway. So, watching-the breath meditation is the form that requires the most minimal effort.
You’re doing meditation of any kind the ideal way once it starts being “one” with you, or kind of “taking you over.” For instance, if you are doing a movement form of meditation such as t’ai chi, it’s when the energy of the exercises seems to be moving you rather than you. Or when everything physically around you seems to be saying the mantra, if you are doing a mantra meditation. It feels like everything seems to be saying the mantra because you have entered a space of sufficient unity that for you, everything has become the same. And so on.

Creative visualization and affirmations
Some people use the word “meditation” to refer to 'creative' visualization – or other self-hypnosis, or self-reprogramming. This has superficial similarity to meditation. It supposedly can be used to lessen the power your ego has over you. I claim it does fail to actually remove any of the ego.

Remember
If you’re a beginner at meditation, it can take days or weeks or much, much longer before you start accessing any bliss or oneness, even one drop of these. But that’s not a reason to give up practicing every day. Personally, I don’t miss a day because almost every time I meditate I get to drink in some ecstatic pure love and peace. If you keep at it, those sorts of wonderful experiences do happen for many people.

In the last few days I've been making some posts regarding mantra meditation, which, may I suggest, is another example of a much safer and ultimately much more effective practice that you might like to consider.

kritter

2nd January 2015, 03:57

Thank you, so much, TraineeHuman for your insights and taking the time see what is going on with myself and meditation. I think you are right. As I reflect back, I was, to a degree, forcing and visualizing. Visualizing is what I learned from every source I checked into. Obviousely, my sources are probably New Age mumbo jumbo. I certainly can't afford a qualified teacher, so is there a book you can reccomend where I can get the correct learning? If you see that I have the ability to do some true meditation, I certainly want to start off on the right foot this time! I will start with the Watching the Breath exercises and the mantras you suggested. I have read all of your thread, but apparently, I need to go back and read it over again. I had read the post where you talked about golden energy and using it to heal, so I tried it with my heart chakra....not that I am claiming to be a healer, but I wonder what unblocked my heart area. Also, what do you reccomend in the way of chakra clearing?

"Sorry, but I tend to be very honest and forthright.".... Don't worry, I love forthright people! That's one of the things I like about your posts. I can say without a doubt that I have NOT mastered fear! So what ever I experienced was probably just a release of my long pent up baggage.

I appreciate your time and effort to create and continue this thread. I am enjoying it!

Thanks again,

kritter

TraineeHuman

2nd January 2015, 06:51

I certainly can't afford a qualified teacher, so is there a book you can reccomend where I can get the correct learning?

If you can get hold of some of the late Barry Long's books, he wrote a small book called Meditation, which was also on a cassette, and presumably on CD or DVD. He also wrote a small book called Knowing Yourself. Also a small book called How to Stop Thinking. The Barry Long Foundation is at www.barrylong.org. They would probably be the best source for getting hold of his books and videos.

(As I've mentioned before in this thread, Barry was Eckhart Tolle's teacher also.)

I must admit I was initially self-taught, but then I've since had over a hundred serious teachers -- but not through books, at all (just about). Barry's teachings were a creative taking-further of J. Krishnamurti's teachings, and also to some extent Sri Ramana Maharshi' s teachings, plus various original discoveries of Barry's. Unfortunately, almost no-one could understand what Krishnamurti was talking about, so with Barry you're effectively getting a few of the greatest recent teachers combined into one, in a way.

I had read the post where you talked about golden energy and using it to heal, so I tried it with my heart chakra

As far as I know, most people unfortunately don't have access to the Light of the four highest levels of Source, which is where that golden Light I was referring to comes from. It won't come if anyone simply visualizes a yellow energy or whatever. If you can somehow access it, that's great. Everyone does have the ability to heal, both others and themselves.

what do you reccomend in the way of chakra clearing?

Well, I personally favor work on oneself and the direct facing of one's baggage. Actually, the only professional I know of who does anything like a form of "chakra clearing" in a way that I enthusiastically respect is Dr Ravi Ratan of Bombay. And he does somatopsychic work, as distinct from psychosomatic. If there was a "blocked throat chakra", for instance, I believe Dr Ratan would primarily seek to have the client make changes to their living or working environment that would remove whatever was causing communication problems to get activated or exacerbated in the first place. Otherwise, I largely would claim that a person's energies need to be "cleared" holistically. After all, each chakra is itself just one node of an integrated, interrelated system.

kritter

6th January 2015, 04:34

Thanks for the recommendations. I will check them out.

dpwishy

7th January 2015, 20:01

TraineeHuman, I have come to a block of sorts the last few months. I have only had one truly conscious OBE, by that I mean, I consciously fell out of my body before the dream state and entered that way. On the other hand, I can get there fairly easily by realizing I am dreaming and then entering through that awareness. The problem is, once I started to master certain red flags that allowed this awareness of the dream to occur, may it be my teeth falling out or this or that, they seemed to switch and get harder and harder. Its like something is consciously trying to keep me trapped in that dream space. This arms race of sorts, "them" (me?) coming up with more elaborate and real dreams and me finding new red flags to use to realize I am dreaming. Some nights I have this knowing I am going to enter consciously and then I get leg pains or itches that stop me from sleeping as if something is hindering it. As with any arms race, its made both sides advance. They have with their trickery and illusions that get harder and harder to become conscious in, and I become better at becoming conscious in harder and harder levels.

Lately I do not have the upper hand. Its the same type of dream, same metaphor being played and yet I cant seem to become conscious in it. Its something so simple, I am either back in higher school (where the majority take place here ) or back at a college. But in these space I am always short for credits, I wont be able to graduate high school, or college. Or there is a rush knowing I only have another half semester to do the work required or I wont graduate on time. At first I thought it was to do with my spiritual state, but I have been on a very health progression as of the last year or so. If there was a map plotted of it, although there is crests and troughs, all in all it went steadily up at a healthy pace for me.

I tell my self consciously when I am in conscious reality that you have already graduated high school and you already went to college. I know these should be easy triggers, I have never had to remind my self like this. Just knowing my teeth don't fall out like that is enough when it happens a few times to catch it. I am honestly trying my hardest to drill these triggers into my mind and I cant seem to catch that this shouldn't be possible as I have already finished. The funny thing is, I woke up today mid sleep in this space and before going back to bed I reminded my self until I fell asleep "I cant be in school, wake up". Then it switch from the dream I was in which was I couldn't graduate, to a different dream where I still had time to make up the credit but knew I had to work. The second dream I didn't even realize I fell into and it tricked me from catching the first dream. Its like something knew I almost had it and then tweaked it slightly to deceive me, which it successfully did. I fell into that dream as if I never went to sleep and had no idea I was even dreaming because of the change.

Little background. I never share my personal aspects of my path with God on here, but a piece is needed for this story. My sophomore year in college when I met God the first time, well I guess its more fair to say, when God reintroduced itself to me in this incarnation. It told me who I was and the mission I accepted for "It". That I choose it. In this first meeting it told me to leave college, that I wouldn't use it in my life's work and I would just be making my path harder(debt). At this time I didn't really fully believe in the experiences I was having and by the time I did, I was a senior in college. I literally have one class left to take, but I wont finish in principle. God has proven it self to me, and in some weird type of dedication that I understand, I wont take that last class to get my degree. My family thinks I am insane and its a constant topic being brought up to me (when are you going to take your last class?). But emotionally I have no attachment and it feels more of service and metaphor to my belief in myself and God (being the same) that I wont finish. I own and run a very successful painting business as my material realm work and honestly have a better life than I could with using my degrees in its field. I thought the dream might be tied to this or playing on it, but that seems far as it has no emotion roots to me, only my family.

I cant seem to realize or become conscious of the one red flag that is screaming, that I cant be in school. For some reason this is the hardest trigger for me to notice and I cant understand not only why is this used as the dream metaphor (school) and why is this one is sooooo hard to become conscious of when its tricked me over and over and I have literally drilled it into my consciousness awareness that this cant be right, notice this. Yet its like grasping sand in my fists. Very frustrating to be beat by the same thing.

Thanks

Joe Akulis

7th January 2015, 22:46

Wow, dpwishy! You just described almost exactly a recurring dream I used to have, a lot.

My take on it, after I was able to absorb some of TH's expertise here, was that I was being told by my Higher Self that I was getting lazy, or distracted by something going on in my life. Like a symbolic way of saying, "Hey, you made it one of your purposes for this lifetime to learn and gain some critical experience, and you need to get back on track."

After I adopted that understanding of the message, the number of times I've had the dream have definitely gone down, but I think it's partly because I took the advice, and found ways to put down some things that I was pretty addicted to that didn't have anything to do with personal development.

Life must be short or something. Heh heh.

Much love,
Seeker Joe

TraineeHuman

8th January 2015, 01:27

Hi Michael,

There've been many periods when I've quite often had a dream where I'd failed an exam or interview, and where I felt really bad about that. But as you mention, it's really always ourselves who are handing out the "fail" mark. In my own case it always seems to mean that at that time I needed to realize I'd been overly conscientious or ambitious in some area where it isn't necessary, or it isn't sufficiently appreciated. And instead, that there are other areas to emphasize and address. I suspect such a dream means much the same in your case, in spite of your personal history of not quite graduating at college.

It's not always so easy to find the right areas to be conscientious or ambitious in. After all, we want to do a good job in our work situation to ensure we survive financially, and also for our self-respect and to feel we're making a difference. We also want, but certainly don't always succeed, to do whatever's the most constructive and insightful in our personal and family relationships. I don't entirely agree with Seeker Joe that this type of dream might also often mean: "Hey, pull your socks up! Get off your behind and get your act together!" or something like that. Rather, I believe it can more often mean that in the dream we're subconsciously facing the fact, in some way, that we've allowed some conditioning -- often from our parents -- to get internalised inside us. Taking back our sovereignty in that area -- not just the idea of it, but the action at a psychic level of breaking free -- is so hugely important. It affects our entire life. Are we the unwitting slave of (or an uncontrolled rebel against) that parental (or other "authority") voice somewhere inside us or not?

Also, everyone takes on horrific negative judgments about themselves (based on their self-judgment following their most recent physical death) at at the time of their birth. These can and do also hugely interfere with every aspect of our life. It's not so hard to get rid of many of them if you can get into a high-enough consciousness but be "bi-located" in the sense of just letting the pain inside your belly or heart to flow while you face it fully, and heal yourself psychologically and spiritually. Getting rid of these huge self-judgments is a major practical part of true enlightenment, as I see it. From your very positive description of your work, Michael, it seems to sound likely that you've overcome the effect of most of your self-judgments, at least in the area of work.After enlightenment you still chop wood, but you do it with a smile on your face, or a smile on the inside at least.

Your post brings up many issues, as usual. I'd like to comment on some of the rest shortly.

TraineeHuman

8th January 2015, 04:19

It does seem to be the case that drills can often be or (if of the right kind at the right time) nearly always are useful. It's similar to how a creative artist or professional sportsperson learns and practices various "drills". These then turn into skills. The skills are stored in the subconscious memory but can be called on instantly whenever they're needed. It's also what we do in developing driving skills, for instance, and many., many types of skills in all sorts of areas. Oh, and also what we know as habits, and comfort zones.

In the case of Soul travel (and meditation), the situation is interesting because, I suggest, there is a realm of "pure" memory, and it exists at a certain dimensional level but not at any higher dimension. Clearly, memory exists within "time" (the "time" of physics), and so it must lie at a dimensional level below any of the formless (or HM, or psychic or intentional/intuitive`) dimensions, because these are timeless worlds (in that sense of "time"). Eckankar claims it exists between the (highest) astral or emotional worlds and the (lowest) mental worlds. I would place the realm of memory as at the lowest two mental levels -- but that's almost just a matter of one's choice of terminology. So, once we are at the level of any mental world proper, or any state of consciousness higher than that, we exist beyond memories, folks.

"So we all have Alzheimers at those levels, and Source has Alzheimers the worst of all?" you may well be protesting. Well, I suggest that at the mental level and all higher planes, we no longer need memories, because we have more instant access. It's like we can throw away our camera because there's no point in holding snapshots when we can kind of tune in directly to the real thing (at least in part, or at least to its essence) at any moment we please -- while we're at such a higher plane.

But this is why I've always felt a little frustrated in this thread when members have made such a huge fuss about remembering -- or failing to remember -- what they saw while OB or dreaming. What I'm thinking at such a time is: "Your HM absorbed that OB experience into its essence, into part of itself, and therefore of you. That's what's important. Just learn to be quiet enough inside that you can often manage to listen to its proddings. That's all you need."

And because the point of doing OB-type "drills" of various kinds is, apparently, just so you manage to record memories of it, that's why I've kept trying to explain that hey, that's not the important part. Don't put all your attention on judging how unsuccessful or successful you were at collecting some memories. If you do, you'll miss the important part.

TraineeHuman

8th January 2015, 07:01

Memory is only one of the processes or capacities of Mind at some level. The higher levels of Mind -- the HM and on up -- are themselves just one expression, though for us humans very much the dominant one, of (higher) consciousness. And yet, our conditioning "teaches" us that our memories are the very stuff and essence of our entire personality, and that our personality is all we are. Look at all the advertising, anywhere. Most of it is about impression management. "What impression are we making on the personalities of others, or on our own ego with its desires?"

In that mindset, Consciousness is reduced to the false notion of "time": "Who I was in the past was that set of memories. Who I am now are these "pictures" of myself that I can right now remember or see when I glance at or reflect on myself. Who I will be in the future, and indeed after death also, is simply whatever "photos" of (supposedly) "me" I manage to preserve, maybe with some needed alterations here and there." This is all that memory can know, and memory seeks to swindle us into believing that it is what consciousness is. Even though memory knows nothing whatsoever about the future, at least nothing that's important. So, I must protest against this swindle that it's "normal" to get conned by.

These sorts of questions are quite beyond the ordinary mind's ability, by itself, to resolve, whatsoever. All it can do is maybe speculate and try to come up with plausible models of who we are -- all based on reducing us to memory, ultimately. The ordinary mind can neither prove that we're mortal nor that we're immortal, for instance.
This is the sort of reason why I'm keen for everyone to find ways to let go of the lower forms of mind or consciousness, and thereby make room for the higher faculties that are there inside to come shining through a little.

dpwishy

8th January 2015, 17:51

Last question; Whats with if you tell anyone inside a dream space that you are aware this is a dream, its almost a certain end to that dream space. Like something, once again, realizes you are aware and changes things to keep you unaware.

At first when I would enter these states, I would run around screaming, "we are all dreaming, wake up!". Literally running around like a mad man, shaking people by the shoulders "we are dreaming, we are dreaming!". Very fast I learned this is not allowed, people would start to converge on me like they do in inception when the others in the dream realize you know. I learned very fast that this is not allowed and learned how to keep calm. Even if I get too excited in my realization I am aware that I am dreaming without telling anyone, it would kick me out also.

I have tried every variation, you cant run around and yell it, I tried telling it to a room full of my friends or people I thought I knew, that got me thrown from the space also. And finally, I tried telling just a single person last week, a whisper in their ear "Do you know we are inside my dream right now" and the person responded "thats a good theory about life but...." and right then I said "no, I know we are dreaming" and boom it ended. It seems that allowing anyone to know that you know this is a dream, along with acting to excited in that realization, sets some kind of alarm off, you are spotted and kicked out. Whats the purpose of this function? Seems to be very rigid....

TraineeHuman

9th January 2015, 01:59

Whats with if you tell anyone inside a dream space that you are aware this is a dream, its almost a certain end to that dream space. Like something, once again, realizes you are aware and changes things to keep you unaware.

At first when I would enter these states, I would run around screaming, "we are all dreaming, wake up!". Literally running around like a mad man, shaking people by the shoulders "we are dreaming, we are dreaming!". Very fast I learned this is not allowed, people would start to converge on me like they do in inception when the others in the dream realize you know. I learned very fast that this is not allowed and learned how to keep calm. Even if I get too excited in my realization I am aware that I am dreaming without telling anyone, it would kick me out also.

.

That's a great issue you're raising, Michael. I don't know how to respond to it without going into what, in the branch of philosophy known as metaphysics, has been the hottest issue in Western thought, and what for many centuries has also been one of the hottest issues in Eastern (Indian, and ancient Chinese and Japanese) metaphysics, if not also in spirituality generally. The issue I'm referring to here is: "How do we know what's the appearance and what's the (ultimate) reality?"

One way to answer that question is to say that everything except Source is just an illusion, a dream. But then, how does one know that that's the ultimate truth? Surely, only if one has realized enlightenment to the point of the full and permanent descension of Source into the physical? There's plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that such Divine beings can and do indeed treat the physical world like it's an illusion. After all, they've performed all sorts of miracles, and apparently can even create a new physical body from scratch, totally of their own choice and control, to reincarnate in, or so we're told.

If I were to say to a random person on the street that I believe I know the physical world is in some sense an illusion, they'd most likely think I was insane. They may possibly say: "That's a good theory, but what if you stepped onto the freeway now into an oncoming car. Would your death be just an illusion?" And yet, the experience of even the lowest level of spiritual enlightenment leaves one with the certainty that there's some sense in which matter, and the physical world, is just a dream. That it's just good theater.

May I also pause here to point out that in the astral, the energies or beings one encounters are generally considered, by themselves and one another, to be reality, rather as everything physical is considered to be reality in this world. Yes, one may eventually also discover that all that's holding the physical world in existence is the combined power of intention, in full agreement of all the living beings that inhabit the physical world, and also some beyond it. A more elaborate version of the phenomenon, say, that everyone drives on one side of the road, which was arbitrarily chosen but agreed to by all. So, it doesn't necessarily surprise me to hear that when, in the astral, you say that what you're experiencing is an illusion (a "dream"), firstly you're saying something that most of the beings there won't be aware of as being even possibly true. Secondly, that if you hold to that insistence of yours, that it's unreality, firmly enough, you may either be rudely thrown out of that astral location because you're offending other beings too much, or it may even be the case that you're partially dissolving the arbitrarily but universally agreed-to "hologram" that creates the astral.

One thing about the physical world I haven't mentioned yet in my recent posts regarding memory is as follows. In the physical, the reason we cling to memory so much is that we live mostly in ignorance but with a very strong urge to know. (Ultimately, perhaps, that urge is to know for certain whether or not we're immortal, and so on.) And memory is the best way the ordinary mind seems to know of partially defying that state of ignorance.

There are many sides to this huge issue, and I appreciate this therefore isn't a complete response to it.

dpwishy

9th January 2015, 13:47

TraineeHuman

10th January 2015, 09:31

If those in my dream are my subconscious and I am interacting with my subconscious in the dream, in an as above so below representation, am I the Creator (God to their world) as we are in God's dream. That in our "waking" reality, we are part of God subconscious interacting with itself in its dream. The world we create is the next level down, I am sure it goes on into infinity both ways. ...

In the same way I believe we are in a simulation but won't find out until technology gets to the point where we create that simulation and realize we are that technology. The simulation then creates a simulation when their technology gets there. We become simulations inside simulations. Just as I mention above is dream within dreams, creators within creators.

You've again brought up many issues all at once, Michael. I imagine it could potentially take me a book if I tried to address them all fully. Not that that's a bad thing at all. Let me start by commenting about "as above, so below". My first point regarding this is that obviously, the reverse -- "as below, so above" -- can't in general and always be true at the same time as "as above, so below". Because otherwise, there'd be no difference whatsoever between "above" and 'below", surely? No arm-waving about "holograms" or "simulations" (I don't mean by yourself, Michael) is going to make that not true.

The "pure" heart and essence of the Divine, which no doubt in some way exists beyond the cosmos, as you mention, is absolutely free of -- well, almost everything. It's probably even free of being either finite or infinite, I suggest. After all, those are merely mental concepts. Not to mention its being free of time and space as we think of them. (Ditto, mental-level "constructions", and that's all, I claim.)

And yet, as you indicate, the Divine has another side to it too. For it ecstatically embraces and absorbs in itself the totality of all else. Through doing so, it inevitably leaves its "fingerprint", its mark. That "fingerprint", it turns out, is very extensive and ubiquitous. Indeed, because the Divine is so free, it freely (yet inevitably, given its level of kindness) donates "copies" of all its features as far as possible and everywhere it's possible.

As a result, it seems that everything (not just humans) is driven by an unseen urge to become the Divine. I guess you could say that everything strives to become in its way a "simulation", at some lower level, of the Divine. But I don't favor using the word "simulation" here. Firstly because it seems to presuppose an answer to the question: "What is the appearance and what is the true reality underlying it?" that I don't necessarily agree with, plus I don't agree we have any clear answer to that question anyway. Secondly, I don't like to talk of "simulations" here because that word has connotations of artificiality. Certainly, each life-form or being at its own level and with its own handicaps in natural ways strives to emulate or imitate the Divine's qualities of omnipotence and omniscience and unity as best it can under its limitations and its current misunderstandings. But this remains removed from the actions of the Divine, and fails to be a valid imitation of the Divine.

And "simulations of simulations" and so on to infinity? Well, I would prefer to emphasize that there are two primary levels (at least for us at present) rather than an infinity of levels. There's the world where one constantly sees the One in the Many, and then there's the level of seeing a chaotic, accidental world (a One perhaps, yet so disharmonious it's barely, if at all, recognisable as a One), a world that lacks unity.

Most of the exercises and practices I've described in this thread have been serious ways to develop the intuition (even when I haven't mentioned or hinted that they were). They have even nearly all actually been ways to develop the ability to know "from the inside", to collapse the gap between the knower and the known! The intuitive consciousness is the bridge that enables us to cross into being more and more in the One-in-the-Many level. Once one has "crossed" somewhat, it also becomes much easier to develop astral "sight" and mental "sight" and "sight" (or its equivalent) in even higher level worlds, if one wishes to have that.

It may be less confusing if I save, among other things, the extraordinary phenomenon we know as "the subconscious", and the question of what is its relationship to reality, for another post.

TraineeHuman

11th January 2015, 11:44

THE INNER SCREEN. Here's some more practical information regarding exercises hopefully anyone can do. In the exercise in post #24: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=586384&viewfull=1#post586384
you were asked to make your mind a "blank screen", by consciously not thinking anything for thirty seconds.

Unfortunately, I didn't explain clearly back then that that "inner screen" is the foundation for having astral or mental "sight". All the "action" you get to see in the higher dimensions plays on that screen, initially at least.

Eckankar's preferred method for blanking one's inner screen, with one's eyes closed, is to say a mantra (such as "Hu-u-u") with each outbreath, plus at the same time to concentrate on a point in the middle of the forehead about almost an inch above the level of the top of the eyebrows (i.e., level with the pineal gland and chakra). If, in addition, you can at the same time imagine you somehow have full peripheral "vision" through your eyes that makes the inner screen extend around to your right and your left, then you may find you'll start "seeing" symbols or pictures or even movies on the screen.

In post #24 I simply suggested making your mind blank just by concentration and willing it so. (After all, the will is really just consciousness in action -- although there are many different levels at which will can operate, to match the different levels of consciousness.) I also suggested that anyone who couldn't "see" anything otherthan "darkness" or "blankness" on the blanked inners creenshould then just go with the very first thing they get when they imagine what they might see if the blankness really stood for something else. However, I suggest that many may find the Eckankar method easier.

But I can't emphasize too much how important it is for everyone to practice blanking and watching their inner screen daily -- until the day when the "inner movies" appear there regularly and rather easily. The inner screen is for many the chief or even perhaps the only way the Higher Mind, the soul at first communicates what it has to tel us. (For instance, all ourdreams take place on or in that screen.) Meditation will often be a way of non-specifically watching that screen -- of tuning in to its contents, of "sensing" them, without consciously going into the speciifcs of what's being conveyed.

While I'm talking about Eckankar, they considerthe expansion of one's consciousness to be the primary, and favored, form of Soul "travel". Often this is a gentler form, to be sure, but they firmly insist it's the central and essential form. Although it's true they do also use "spiritual exercise(s)", such as the one I've already described, to activate one's perception of other dimensions and past lives, in their eyes all that is secondary. To quote Harold Klemp (their current leader): "Love and Wonder define what Soul travel is." And so Eckankar strongly encourages the deliberate cultivation of love and the deliberate cultivation of wonder as very major recommended exercises one should practice often. Here love can include such things as love of our pets, our garden, and other favorite things, and not just of other people and of our partners. It also emphatically includes love of one's self. I guess one really needs both love and wonder together. Wonder would include true understanding, which does require a freshness, as if one is seeing things for the firsttime. And surely we all feel, for example, that when we feel love for our partner or pet or whatever, our energy field and our awareness does expand.

Life provides us with ever so many opportuinities to accept love, and also to become love, if we only let ourselves look. Love is its own reward, and doesn't need to carry any expectations with it at all. After all, true, pure love doesn't involve any attachment. As C.S. Lewis said: "True love detaches." And ultimately, true and proper detachment is what liberation is (e.g., liberation from the cycle of physical rebirth).

Incidentally, I'd like to make a suggestion to anyone who hasn't had substantial success with the exercise in post #10, which is designed to bring glimpses from one's most relevant past lifetimes. I suggest to try the exercise again, but with the following change. Before beginning the exercise proper, create the blank inner screen, using either the Eckankar method described above or the other method I've described.

Ikarusion

12th January 2015, 15:43

hi all,

i tried your previously described method yesterday, i had difficulties though. my biggest problem was staying blank, but still holding on to the question.
im also not sure if the question was maybe something that should unfold naturally and hence is something that should remain unanswered for now.

the question was: how should i proceed with my relationship to a close friend.
im asking because i had sex with her recently, after being friends with her for over four years now.
because of this and because she recently got out of a long relationship and doesnt want another one just now, i am kind of unsure what the best way to proceed would be.
which gets me quite interested in the opinion of my HM on this matter.

obviously i have love for her, we are extremly honest and close to one another. but i can also be so detached, i think that we could remain friends without any significant/real change to our relationship.

but the issue in the exercise was that often, to hold on to the question i tried seeing her face with my minds eye, but that generated thoughts and feelings which got my mind to wander, even if it often was just shortly because i got the feeling that this isnt the way the exercise is supposed to work..

actually, reading this now i see my mistake. i should hold on to a blank screen, and not project something, even just one thing or in this case her on to the screen..

:) uhm, still of course if anyone has any input for me, id appreciate it. and i shall try the eckankar method tonight.
even no answer wouldnt be a biggie for me. i just thought that this would be an interesting question for me right now, since i only tried this maybe two-three times before.

take care,
ika

Ikarusion

14th January 2015, 07:28

ok, i tried two more times the last evenings, but i didnt have/take much time for it and i didnt get anything.
i felt closer yesterday though. ill just keep at it every now and then. ill see that i take time to meditate and then do it.
thx

Ikarusion

15th January 2015, 12:37

"We are unable to evolve when the heart is shut down."
im sorry, but i googled the quote and find the information so useful, that im going to share it again.
http://www.energeticsynthesis.com/index.php/resource-tools/news-shift-timelines/2245-spiritual-maturity

:) ika

kritter

18th January 2015, 04:27

TraineeHuman

18th January 2015, 05:00

Hello TraineeHuman,

I was wondering if you could tell me your take on grounding and protecting yourself before meditation. I only know about visualizing a cord or whatever beginning at the base of your spine and reaching deep into the earth along with placing a bubble of protection around yourself. I know you don't agree with visualization, so what do you recommend? I can't remeber if it was you who said this or I read it somewhere else, but it was said that you have to be cautious when grounding yourself, as not all areas of the earth have a positive energy. That some spots have negative energy that can cause problems. Is this true? And what is your opinion of meditation videos that have just binaural beats etc.... or soft music to meditate by?

Thanks,

kritter

Firstly, regarding earthing, let me quote Gerard Bini, a full-time professional consultant whose work is to recognise various energy fields in buildings and suggest solutions to any problems in building energetics. From http://www.orgoneffectsaustralia.com/blog/post/earthing/

Myth number 1: The earth creates negative ion resonance which is readily available for harvest. FALSE. The earth produces radiation fields in the form of fault lines, earth magnetic grid lines and imprints, which creates a resonant effect (stress) on human organs called Geopathic Stress which in urban areas generally is of a harmful positive ion resonance. Let alone the very low frequency earth radiation which has been secretly spreading around the world in the last 8 to 10 years. If you stand on ground affected by Geopathic Stress with bare feet you are taking the earth resonance of that particular location resonance into the body, causing organ stress. To exactly which organs depends on the well-being of the individual. The same applies if you're attached to a metal stake embedded into the ground and make contact with the body.

The earth wire of my electrical system delivers a pure Negative Ion earth resonance. FALSE. The earth wire from your electrical system resonates at the same frequency as the positive and negative wires of your electrical system. Which in Australia is 50hz, exactly the frequency you want to protect yourself from, being the harmful effects of electromagnetic radiation.

Standing/earthing or grounding oneself on the beach sand and connecting to the earth is protecting me from all radiation, and sends healing energies through my body? FALSE. Beach sand is made generally from a mixture of minerals, one in particular silica. Silica accumulates to the resonance of the water under the sand, another frequency of Geopathic Stress. The Geopathic Stress from the ground water also passes through into the body causing organ stress. For people who are trained to read energy, it can easily be observed that the feet Chakras of people on any beach are switched off. However it is when we are actually standing in the water that the natural Negative Ion created by flowing water protects and causes healing, only then though.

There are good earth energies around, however you need to be able to recognise them of course.

Ley Lines and birth imprints do create pure ionic resonance which is very healthy for human organs. The problem is that you need to be able to recognise them before you engage with them with some form of earthing or grounding. The average house would be lucky to have any birth imprints, and if there were Ley Lines, the resonance from the average house's electrical system and WiFi would cancel the good energy out.

Only one in ten houses we survey in our consultancy work would have either a birth imprint or Ley Line!

My preferred methods for grounding oneself are: almost any kind of physical exercise; or sitting with your back straight and the end of your thumb poking into the belly button, so that the center of the palm is over the second chakra; or holding both your palms horizontally flat, parallel to the ground and consciously radiating a little positive (healing) energy towards the ground.

By the way, I don't entirely disapprove of using visualization, just of the way maybe 99% of people seem to do it, and also of their trying to use it as a "shortcut" instead of working to gradually raise their consciousness. Manifestation of anything good happens through having heightened consciousness, and unfortunately there is no substitute for that, no clever trick.

I haven't experienced using binaural beats, but apparently they help some individuals learn how to astral travel.

I know that some beginners at meditation seem to benefit from using soft music as a concentration device. I think the music should be "spiritual" sounding, though, because consciousness and the mind can be quite suggestible, particularly when one is relaxed.

kritter

18th January 2015, 06:14

Thanks, again for your info. and sharing your knowledge!

kritter

TraineeHuman

21st January 2015, 02:40

Appearance versus reality: what is the ultimate reality, relative to which all else is appearance? dpwishy has brought this question up in his most recent posts. In a subsequent PM to me, he explained how he had himself directly experienced the answer to this question. An answer which of course has to be experienced, and beyond all words.

As dpwishy described it, the answer is that Love is ultimately the only thing that's real. I would prefer to say it's bliss (which to me includes the essence of loving, and of being loved, at its best), plus understanding or consciousness, including of "the biggest picture" in any context or situation or sense, plus being (or, failing that, being in full union with) everything or the total whole. But certainly, I agree that pure love is part of what absolutely everything is ultimately made of -- but we still very much need to do many things at many levels to penetrate beyond the appearance to the contrary.

In this thread I've been emphasizing the need for us all to work at descension. One way to describe how that works, that's relevant to someone who has experienced at least the lowest level of enlightenment, i.e. a brief apparent full merging with Source, is in terms of the Zen Oxherding Pictures. At Picture Eight one reaches the point of experiencing that ultimate reality. Here one has insights including even that in a sense nothing matters, because all there ultimately is is Source. But then there are two stages beyond, those of Pictures Nine and Ten, which involve the descension of such ultimate realities and insights. If I may take the liberty of quoting from a PM from dpwishy, he expresses this very eloquently:

I have already worked my way back to source and know what is real and what is not. We merged for a moment, a split second and then I was let go. I felt like if I felt it any longer I couldn't exist. In that moment everything was proven to me, there is no doubt. So, Why am I still concerned with illusion? What's real and what's fake? ... what's real and what's fake has no meaning anymore, there is no difference. The only thing that should matter is trying to bring that highest expression, to the lowest reality.

Highwhistler

24th January 2015, 22:20

.
.
28730

http://projectavalon.net/forum4//forum4/images/misc/pencil.png

Highwhistler

24th January 2015, 22:29

.

. . 28731

Highwhistler

24th January 2015, 22:32

.
.
28732

Ikarusion

27th January 2015, 08:39

hey all,

i didnt have much success and honestly lost interest for now in the last excercise. i was sick for over a week as well.
i try to meditate more regular though and am still working on letting go more.
i seem to make a bit of progress there, so im really happy with that since i think it is a major part of proper meditation and obe experiences.
it was a major realization of mine, last summer when i first had ayahuasca that i could not really let go of my control and just transition into an elevated state.

yesterday before bed i felt very bi located though. like when u get up in the morning and arent completly grounded yet.
it was nice, calm and as i layed still in bed i could more then once notice myself almost drifting into a dreamstate. ever so slow and smoothly.

anyway, this morning i had a short dream about sexy foreplay with a naked lady. i rarely dream about sex and there are a few weird details about this dream.

we were at the apartment i grew up in, the living room. there was this naked woman, another man and me. i dont think ive seen both before.
me and the guy were dressed and i think he initiated and started to fondle and kiss her. i think for a moment i was hesitant but i started to play around with her too.
after a bit, i asked myself if hes still there, maybe hidden behind her. my face was very close to her body, so i couldnt see anything else but her and my peripheral vision.
shortly later my alarm went off, pretty much when things started to get more heated.

so, from what i know about dream interpretation, mostly from here i reckon the place is representative of an old, possible child state of my mind. i lived there until i was 21.
maybe its about accepting or loving some old part of me. maybe theres an unbalance between my male and female sides.
im not sure about most of the implications from the people involved and their actions. but it strikes me as somewhat important, or surely something ill remember for a while.

what do you think it might try to tell me?

regards,
ika

Ikarusion

27th January 2015, 10:49

btw: i listened to barry longs recording "making love" and enjoyed it a lot.
it helped me identify certain aspects of previous relationships more clearly. i recommend listening to it. :)

TraineeHuman

27th January 2015, 11:53

hey all,
this morning i had a short dream about sexy foreplay with a naked lady. i rarely dream about sex and there are a few weird details about this dream.

we were at the apartment i grew up in, the living room. there was this naked woman, another man and me. i dont think ive seen both before.
me and the guy were dressed and i think he initiated and started to fondle and kiss her. i think for a moment i was hesitant but i started to play around with her too.
after a bit, i asked myself if hes still there, maybe hidden behind her. my face was very close to her body, so i couldnt see anything else but her and my peripheral vision.
shortly later my alarm went off, pretty much when things started to get more heated.

so, from what i know about dream interpretation, mostly from here i reckon the place is representative of an old, possible child state of my mind. i lived there until i was 21.
maybe its about accepting or loving some old part of me. maybe theres an unbalance between my male and female sides.
im not sure about most of the implications from the people involved and their actions. but it strikes me as somewhat important, or surely something ill remember for a while.

what do you think it might try to tell me?

regards,
ika

In this thread I've been presenting information intended for individuals who (don't have any significant mental health problems, such as paranoia or depression, and) are interested in living in touch with their Higher Mind and even eventually the Divine. On the one hand, it's easier than I may have made clear for any such person to bring the Higher Mind in temporarily. E.g., you can quickly do so within minutes at even the beginning stages of meditating with a mantra or of almost any other simple means of meditation. Just notice, while you're meditating, that the inner master is right there, and easy to communicate with if you just try while you're in an even slightly raised state of consciousness.

On the other hand, though, to develop the higher parts of ourselves it's necessary to gain almost complete mastery of much of what people call "human nature" in oneself. It's "normal", particularly in our society, for people to accept appetites for anger, desire, sex, greed, reaction and so on and on as natural, and perfectly allowable, and so on. But the life of working towards the Divine requires an inner calm that largely replaces the above, literally. That inner calm includes a quiet rejection of all the lower impulses, an agreement with onwself that one will not give them carte blanche. This means that either a huge purification of one's self is absolutely necessary, or else one needs to master a tantric form of spirituality. But even the tantric masters teach that, for example, one should gain sufficient self-mastery --as distinct from self-repression -- to never fantasize about sex, and preferably never even think about sex unless one's sexual partner, or a potential sexual partner, is physically present.

In our society, the sphere of sexuality is possibly the most important one that must be totally purified. One has to learn how not to give sexual fantasies any support. Also how to reject the demands of any desires, of any kind. I'm not saying here that one denies genuine needs, such as the need for adequate nutritious food. Nor that one denies the joy of life, or the workings of the life-force that keeps the physical body alive. But one does need to learn how to become largely free of disappointment because some desire or other has been unfulfilled. It's necessary to learn to drop that. To sweep the house clean. You can mix with "normal" people but you need to retain a huge inner equanimity, a peace.

Obviously, then, I would claim that erotic dreams, at least ones where the physical body is sexually stimulated, shouldn't be indulged. Certainly, they may either have a symbolic meaning or they may be an outpouring from one's subconscious sexual desires. The subconscious is blind, and at an animal level of consciousness at best, so the scene you may see in a dream may have no relation to the details of the reality of your present life other than that you're carrying a certain untamed impulse in your subconscious.

Whatever your dream meant, one thing your HM was trying to direct your attention towards was that you currently allow yourself to have some kind of belief that an attachment to indulging your sexual fantasies is important for your happiness. Maybe your HM wants you to consider the possibility that that belief is limiting your life in certain ways. I'm not saying that making love in a truly aware and conscious and detached way (kind of for the sake of Love rather than for the lower self that's a puppet of desires) is a bad thing at all.

TraineeHuman

27th January 2015, 11:59

btw: i listened to barry longs recording "making love" and enjoyed it a lot.
it helped me identify certain aspects of previous relationships more clearly. i recommend listening to it. :)

Barry Long was a genuine Tantric master. I don't think that many people really grasped the essence of what he was trying to teach them, but certainly his writings are full of wisdom and likely to give one insights at least.

Ikarusion

27th January 2015, 12:52

thank you very much.
im not sure if said attachment is present, but i will self reflect more upon it.
actually i think i saw something along those lines in me last week, but i thought i dealt with that already.

i am a bit amused at your answer, because some of the things you say, like not fantasizing about sex are things barry mentioned in his program. :)

there is so much various information from all kinds of sources in this thread. i am very grateful for everybody's contribution.

TraineeHuman

28th January 2015, 08:14

Ika, a major reason why I've been happy to put some emphasis on what members' most important dreams may have meant is partly for the following reason. The transition we need to go through, in activating our Higher Mind more, is from living where the higher things of the HM seem like a dream while the external physical world seems real, to where that outer world comes to eventually all the time keep striking us as illusory, as somewhat dreamlike or unreal and malleable, often in a way we may not necessarily be able to specifically identify at the time.

Until we've crossed over to that frequent experience, with an inexplicable certainty, that the external, physical world is unreal (in the right way, i.e., without losing our sanity), then everything to do with the higher parts of us will seem like a dream anyway. Which is also why the HM has little option but to attempt to communicate with most individuals through some of their dreams.

Ikarusion

28th January 2015, 09:04

i understand. once im more in touch with my hm and things seem to look the way you described, i can assume my dreams are mostly messages and if needed ill ask for guidance here.

it's just.. im really very fascinated with "the dream world". with the laws of the nonphysical and mixture of the subconscious in it.
i wish i could move freely in this realm and if i could i would visit it consciously.

yesterday i took another look at some "dream sequences" in twin peaks. david lynch is actually working on continuing the show next year.
however, yesterday i realized how much symbolism is in those sequences and the things that seemingly seem weird and almost nonsensical that they say actually have a deeper, semi hidden meaning.
i find that so interesting and wish to become so aware as to understand these messages more clearly and straight forward..

maybe i should practice lynchs transcendental meditation regulary to aid in this, or do you have any suggestions for me to familarize myself with this more?
to understand the "dream realm" better.

Ikarusion

28th January 2015, 16:40

Complete surrender, that’s what it takes, even at an early stage. You have to go deep. All of one’s emotional blocks and issues will still need to be worked through, through something like (self?-) psychotherapy or its equivalent. But if there’s complete surrender, such issues are no longer felt as a burden or obstacle. Then they lose much of their significance to you somehow, and so become -- comparatively! -- easy to resolve or remove. Even if one has “love”, it must be free of ego. Otherwise, it needs to be purified, and therefore given up. It needs to be replaced with the Higher Mind’s beautiful love.

Anything in any world can, under some circumstances, be dangerous – except for this surrender. Surrender, surrender.acceptance, detachment, surrender.
these are words i encountered a lot during the last months and im trying to integrate them more fully into my life.

i've read that detachment is connected to the crown chakra.
is this why it becomes easier to resolve other issues, once youve learned to detach and surrender fully?

Right now, I consider this my biggest obstacle. And I can see it at times when my dreams go slightly lucid. I'm all over the place, unable to shut down that mechanism that takes one observation, interprets it, and then follows that interpretation off into imagination-land instead of letting it go and continuing to receive.
during a meditation recently ive noticed this a lot.
the problem i see with this is that our mind acts as a filter and can never fully comprehend the big picture, but it tries to explain higher things with its own limited vocabulary.

this is why i asked myself why i do this and tried to tell me how futile my attempt was. and i just repeated to let go and simply experience without making sense of it.
surrender, just be the observer without judging or thinking. just observing. it helped, although i still think i got a long way to go with this.

so this is in some way a good mantra for me. just observe. or just be.
it might help you too. :)

TraineeHuman

28th January 2015, 23:28

do you have any suggestions for me to familarize myself with this more?
to understand the "dream realm" better.

There's no shortcut, I'm afraid. What I take it you'd like to get, Ika, is, surely, about halfway to being free of the hold of Matter itself over you; and also being free of the (compulsive) hold of the ordinary mind. What I get from you is that you want to master the ability to experience not just the dream world consciously but whatever worlds are higher, and that make the ordinary world seem like it's merely a dream itself. How much do you really want it? To get there, one thing you need is a strength of intention that makes this more important than anything else in your life. And you have to act on that, not just have the right knowledge or the super-great dazzling experience. Not only that, but if you haven't largely purified yourself of those lower, egoic pulls such as desires and being stuck in negative emotions and so on, that I mentioned in my second last post, then you're in trouble. Because those lower pulls inside you will muddy that noble intention and change it into something that won't get you to that destination. All these things may come, but it seems usually they take years to arrive, if not lifetimes. Plus not allowing that noble intention, that expression and realization of your own sovereignty, to get railroaded or diminished along the way, for any of us.

Because all this is inner, then paradoxically you already somehow know how to do it. Communicating with others may well clarify some things, paradoxically, but it's all about how strong is your own sincerity, your inner honesty, to bring out what you already know inside you but which you're hiding from yourself.

Ikarusion

29th January 2015, 07:41

How much do you really want it? To get there, one thing you need is a strength of intention that makes this more important than anything else in your life. And you have to act on that, not just have the right knowledge or the super-great dazzling experience. Not only that, but if you haven't largely purified yourself of those lower, egoic pulls such as desires and being stuck in negative emotions and so on, that I mentioned in my second last post, then you're in trouble.
how bad do i want it? i asked myself this, since i noticed i spend way more time on other things and get side tracked.
just yesterday again instead of meditating for 30-60 minutes as i intended to do before bed, i got sidetracked and didnt even end up doing 10 minutes.

i want this, i really do, but its clashing with my everyday life.. or well, i allow it to clash.
fortunately i soon work part time, and so i can make it a habit to use up a good chunk of time to this on my extra day off.

when it comes to my dark/negative side i am mostly blind to it. i corrected so much over the years that i really am unaware of the residue.
should i just ask the universe for assistance with the pure intention of meeting and transforming my negative side?
i tried this yesterday and asked for guidance, if possible in my dream.
i did dream, but the events didnt seem significant or related. when i ask, i ask not strictly for what i think i want/need, but carefully, saying just do what you think is best.

on a side note, i read about the "dweller on the threshold". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dweller_on_the_threshold
what is your opinion on the dweller?

i am uncertain.. is the dweller essentially your negative/shadow self that you have to confront after death, or is it a general, own being that is testing you through exploiting your weaknesses and dark side?

oh, and thanks again. your post did help.

TraineeHuman

29th January 2015, 11:33

Ika, may I point out that it seems -- to me. anyway -- that you've freely admitted that you don't want that more than anything else. So, why would it be helpful to talk about it further before such a time as you make a more genuine, total commitment, backed up constantly by your actions, to change your life as of now, in the way needed? Talking or thinking about it won't get you there. Nothing less than the strongest possible commitment to the kind of intention, plus "purified" and "surrendered" lifestyle I spoke of, will do. You won't become free of suffering unless you make it your (only) number one priority to do so, and because you're conscious that you've suffered enough. It doesn't matter if you're working part-time or full-time or not at all. If you really, really want the giant diamond buried in your own backyard, you'll find it yourself. You'll uncover the dirt that's your dark side yourself, along the way -- and if you need help there, it won't be to the extent of needing to be spoonfed, so to speak. Maybe others can provide some helpful advice, but what happens in your life is in your own hands. Simply taking on a huge intention like that will open up huge power in you, and a huge ability to discover useful answers of your own that seem to come out of nowhere.

Ikarusion

29th January 2015, 13:23

i see. you seem to be correct. thanks.
i do seem to ask a lot for nudges and pointers, so to make the best possible moves and least deviations, yet without them i tend to be idle in nature..

would you kindly still provide me with your view on the dweller though?

regards

Highwhistler

29th January 2015, 14:21

would you kindly still provide me with your view on the dweller though?

Two things:

1. Please return to the Wikipedia link that you shared with us and read the article, looking for the main characters. Of them all, the most fascinating symbol for me is the Angel of Presence.

Of course, the Angel of Presence hardly gets any attention in the psycho-spiritual realms of ordinary people like you and I, and among institutionalized religions and their followers, as the Angel of Presence is into peace, tranquility, love, is a reflection of the Divine, and It mirrors the higher mind -- all boring qualities for most people.

On the other hand, the Dweller get's all the press and attention down through the ages, and everyone has been meeting him face-to-face, and fighting-fighting-fighting with the inner character, much like a violent video game within a chaotic heart and mind.

Just like a video game, the characters really don't die, and the Dweller can be rebooted back to life again and again and again. I would say that if fighting with the Dweller has not accomplished anything through countless lifetimes, maybe the tactic just does not work.

I say to try not giving your attention to the Dweller -- turn your back on him -- and fall into true love with the Angel of Presence. Do anything that you can to reflect her nature, abilities, divinity and qualities. And so symbolically-speaking: the dweller is allowed to live in the infinite multi-dimensional Universe, it just does not have a dominant home in your heart and mind, and you really don't care or are bothered with him anymore.
.
.
2. All these spiritual stories are told with characters that seem to be out there ... away from you ... in a far-off dimension, or something. But it is most useful to understand that the stories are really talking about parts of your psyche, your direct personal experiences, and your identity.

For instance: YOU are the Angel of Presence. The Presence that you were born with, the Presence that you've quietly noticed everyday, the Presence that is reading these words -- that is YOU. You are the Presence.

But the Presence is so omnipresent, silent, accepting, awake, compassionate and loving ... that hardly anyone gives it any attention or value.

You're center-most identity is a non-physical awake Presence. Your home as a Presence, you might say, is the quantum field ... and the Presence functions as a quantum field-based entity. As a quantum entity it is entangled with other like-hearted souls, and it is a direct spiritual offspring of the Divine, and reflects It's nature and qualities.

Researching (through direct, first-hand, common, daily, ordinary experiences) and radiating the love that is native to you, the Presence, will keep your mind off the Dweller and the psychic dis-eases and chaos it symbolizes.

Joe Akulis

29th January 2015, 19:52

Hello everyone.

Just wanted to chime in and respond to something very valuable to me that TH posted recently.

---
"On the other hand, though, to develop the higher parts of ourselves it's necessary to gain almost complete mastery of much of what people call "human nature" in oneself. It's "normal", particularly in our society, for people to accept appetites for anger, desire, sex, greed, reaction and so on and on as natural, and perfectly allowable, and so on. But the life of working towards the Divine requires an inner calm that largely replaces the above, literally. That inner calm includes a quiet rejection of all the lower impulses, an agreement with oneself that one will not give them carte blanche."

and

"one should gain sufficient self-mastery --as distinct from self-repression"
---

I think this is great way to describe how I went through quite a lot of fear processing the last year or so.

Some people talk about approaching something with "no fear", or being "fearless", or "having the courage" to face something. And I think it might be important to understand the distinction TH makes with those other human natures, and that it might also apply to fear as well. And here's why:

Building up a defense to something can often invite attack. Or perhaps a better way to say it might be, building something like courage, in an effort to overcome fear may have the effect of simply placing you in a position to have your courage tested. It's a little different from finding out that you are getting better at dealing with fear, because in one sense you are trying to avoid something and keep it away from you. (self-repression) I think approaching fear or any other human nature that you are trying to gain ownership of, is more like learning how to let it flow through you and keep on going. (self-mastery)

TH, would you agree there? Do you have any good experiences from your past to help illustrate that distinction for us? I think it's an important one.

Seeker Joe

Joe Akulis

29th January 2015, 19:59

Right now, I consider this my biggest obstacle. And I can see it at times when my dreams go slightly lucid. I'm all over the place, unable to shut down that mechanism that takes one observation, interprets it, and then follows that interpretation off into imagination-land instead of letting it go and continuing to receive.
during a meditation recently ive noticed this a lot.
the problem i see with this is that our mind acts as a filter and can never fully comprehend the big picture, but it tries to explain higher things with its own limited vocabulary.

this is why i asked myself why i do this and tried to tell me how futile my attempt was. and i just repeated to let go and simply experience without making sense of it.
surrender, just be the observer without judging or thinking. just observing. it helped, although i still think i got a long way to go with this.

so this is in some way a good mantra for me. just observe. or just be.
it might help you too. :)

Funny you should bring this up, Ika. It is something I've been working on lately. Finding the silence in between thoughts, and watching the thoughts come and go without following them.

Making strides.

Joe

TraineeHuman

30th January 2015, 00:44

Regarding "the dweller at the threshold": in the ancient Western mystery schools, and also some of the esoteric schools in Arab lands and thereabouts, a new would-be student was required to sleep at the entrance to the temple or building, usually for a number of nights, before being admitted to any tuition. So the prospective student would need to realize they were "dwelling at the threshold", or outside of, the kind of total commitment to genuine freedom that I've been saying is absolutely essential if you really want to get somewhere. And even then there would traditionally be initiations after one was allowed to come beyond the threshold, which back then were real tests of courage and sincerity. I've experienced a few "initiations" like that in the astral, where I've been shown the most terrifying images but it was obvious to me that the test was for me not to give in to fear in any way, which I succeeded in not doing. I found it helped to rise to a higher dimension during such tests.

Also , I think in ancient Greece, "the dweller at the threshold" came to mean whatever defense mechanism (such as denial, or projection (of your own failing or suffering) onto another) was holding you back from higher consciousness; or whatever Hitchhiker or what some members seem to call "entity" inside you is blocking you. In the latter case, you've been giving that being your support without consciously realizing you have. From this there also developed the notion, in some myths or mythologies, that the difficulties and obstacles and even the enemies in our lives were put there by God to ensure that we strengthened ourselves through developing our awareness to a point where we moved beyond them, thereby passing a "threshold" into a higher level of existence in our lives.

Another point is that we unlock immense inner power by raising the level of awareness, and that increased power opens up possibilities of misuse that weren't available to us before. Part of the idea of the dweller is that something challenges us to try and ensure that we won't abuse that increased power.

But the dweller needs to be left behind in the dust of our rear-view mirror, as we move on to bigger things. As Highwhistler so eloquently explains, and then Seeker Joe kind of echoes, it's a matter of transcending the enemy within rather than fighting them.

TraineeHuman

3rd February 2015, 05:37

Hello TraineeHuman,

I was wondering if you could tell me your take on grounding and protecting yourself before meditation. ...
you have to be cautious when grounding yourself, as not all areas of the earth have a positive energy. That some spots have negative energy that can cause problems.

Thanks,

kritter

Let me explain why I consider holding your hands flat, parallel to the ground, and directing some energy from them towards the ground, is in many cases strongly preferable as a means of grounding to trying to do something similar with your feet. This follows on from post #1918.

In my experience, only those who are natural psychic healers can distinctly and clearly feel a flow of bio-energy through their feet and legs (in either direction). On the other hand, almost everyone can easily feel such an energy flow from the palms of their hands, and usually can also make such energy flow simply by willing to do so. In other words, most individuals will have difficulty doing the exercise successfully if they try to do it by using the chakras in their soles. And by the way, as I understand it the main energy flow is from you to the ground. Not in the other direction, because the energy from/in the ground is quite often rather toxic. It's certainly not the energy of Gaia's consciousness, despite the "New Age" urban myth to the contrary.

It's certainly also true that most people's feet feel very uncomfortable wearing shoes, and would greatly prefer to go barefoot or wear sandals. But that has nothing to do with getting properly grounded. It does at least, however, usually put you a little more fully in touch with and more present in your body as a result of feeling the soles contacting the ground.

Ikarusion

3rd February 2015, 10:27

if i may, i quickly would like to say that i appreciate barry longs style of teaching.

i listened to the first half of "start meditating now". in it he mentioned how tension or pain should be led into the pit of stomach to be absorbed, or digested if you will, properly.
i have some physical pain in my right thigh from a sport related accident some years back that acted up recently. i felt some of it flowing into the stomach pit and could let go of it. it did seem to heal a bit quicker now, but the very next day, until the evening i had this constant slight pain in my stomach and i kinda felt it was related to this excercise i did the evening before. could this be? can someone elaborate on this?

another thing i noticed that makes me smile a bit, he seems to say "let me explain" often, which reminds me of traineehuman.
since you seem to have studied together, i guess this makes sense. :)
anyway, i feel there's some powerful information in here and in barry's programs. other useres might appreciate it as well.

regards, ika

TraineeHuman

3rd February 2015, 10:54

The "stomach", i.e. the solar plexus, contains the largest number of nerves and nerve intersections in the body. The ego always causes the bioenergy in the body to be stuck, and as a result most people have a kind of round ball of stuck energy sitting in their solar plexus. The ego's energy all flows to that area and also to the two chakras below it (well, the three below it, but the third is actually some inches below youir feet). It's possible, and very much desirable, to completely dissolve that ball of energy. That will take away some of the ego's power. But until you do, as events come up that trigger your ego and its issues strongly, you'll feel terrible feelings or pain in that area of the body, Ika. This isn't so bad, because it means you're being aware of what your ego is doing, plus you're staying there and watching what it's made of, rather than running away or dulling yourself.

And that's exactly what makes it dissolve away.

Ikarusion

3rd February 2015, 11:20

thanks.. however i actually noticed i did not put it there, i misinterpreted and actually guided the pain to a lower chakra, beneath my navel and that is the place i kept feeling pain. somehow there is a slight confusion that stayed with me since childhood, where i sometimes switch belly and stomach. so i say stomach for example, but mean belly.

this is rather ridiculous, but still seems to happen rarely.
so was this bad to do and should i focus on the solar plexus or just underneath it?

TraineeHuman

3rd February 2015, 12:16

Well, as far as I know for most people the energies connected with the second chakra are subconscious or unconscious, or quite mechanical. But if you have enough awareness to consciously guide an energy to that chakra, that means you do manage to retain conscious knowledge or control of the "instinctual" energies of that chakra. Sounds great. If you're able to guide an energy down to that chakra, that's even better than guiding it to the solar plexus. That also suggests that you're probably capable of dissolving the "ball" of egoic energy at your second chakra. If you manage to do that sometime, that would be really something.

Ikarusion

3rd February 2015, 12:59

ou, so i suppose when i focus long enough on that point i should become aware of this egoic energy and if i hold my focus it should start to diminish, right?
should i try to guide it or simply tell myself to let go of it once i feel i have identified it?

i used to do qi gong regulary before and still do some belly breathing. i also try from time to time to breath in the belly and out the stomach.
i got this method from here: www.projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30434-An-easy-shortcut-methode-meditation-for-fast-and-powerfull-ascension-incl-kundalini

TraineeHuman

4th February 2015, 08:25

Weakening the energies of the ego is a lifelong project, but one that can't be neglected, for many years. (Laughs at the impetuousness of the (relatively) young.) Just focusing your attention on the energies stuck at one chakra of the body for a while is "too easy", in the sense that it doesn't entirely work that way. People want quick fixes, but things like this take a long time, in addition to their requiring enormous dedication. Even if you should happen to be totally motivated and ready to do whatever will get one there in the quickest time. Just because it's possible to describe some of these things in a few sentences or so, making them real in your life takes ever so far, far longer than the minute or so it takes you to read such sentences and get a concept of the meaning of those sentences.

Also, any technique is largely a "how", but the much more useful question is always, always "what?" (because that largely bypasses the ordinary mind and takes you more into the present moment).

And as Highwhistler has just recently pointed out, the most important thing is to first and if you can often every day "saturate" yourself in a higher, more positive, more integrated state of consciousness. That makes you stronger, so you can then face the ego front-on and heal away some of its negative energies -- and you probably will need to do so continually for many years. And you do need to consciously apply that power from higher states to dissolve the ego's grip on you piece by piece. But as time goes by you will more and more come to live experiencing an inner state of joy and peace (without so many of the egos' interruptions any more); and that will radiate out into the world around you more and more -- again, that's over a long period. But no shortcuts, regardless of who you are. (God has a sense of humor.) That also applies regarding the necessity of daily meditation or contemplation.

How the energy flows when you breathe out or in etc during meditation is something I would prefer that everyone should accidentally discover for themselves, but only when they're ready. Again, no rushing as part of some attempted shortcut. And trying to in any way control or direct something like kundalini energy is crazy -- unless it's already there released naturally and you're already used to working with it over a long period.

Ikarusion

4th February 2015, 17:07

Radical self-honesty is crucially important. You won't fully bring down your Higher Mind/consciousness without, eventually, continually practicing this -- at least, you won't be successful in realizing the HM in this lifetime.

this is something i started doing naturally.
i often self reflect and analyze my behaviour. this is good, but mostly through interactions with others can we get a better picture of who we seemingly really are.

only in rare occasions i find truth painful. that pain however is self inflicted.
not the message bearer, but my own failure to realize it sooner and not do the things which result to it, are what actually hurt.

so in my case, the most hurtful truths have usually come out of honest interactions, just as are seen in this thread with others.

it is definitely something that has helped me better myself.
yet, there are, in my case habits that, as you mentioned trainee, take time to truly break.

but since i realised them and now know that they no longer really serve me, its a bitter sweet shift i have to do, gradually. step by step. or well, thats the gentler way. i guess that depends of your level of attachment to it and your personality.

anyway, just a reminder and small testimony. keep at it, it seems to work well, and like all best when done regularly.

TraineeHuman

6th February 2015, 01:07

Our higher part, our higher faculties, include such things as a highly evolved intuition, which does indeed directly see or know the truth or the deeper or higher reality. Of course, most channelers aspire to possess this, and yet it seems clear they generally don't at all, not to the degree of accuracy and universality that I'm speaking of. Because we don't have an education system and we don't have something equivalent to science that informs us of how to recognize when we're not deluding ourselves regarding the accuracy of our intuitions, so many individuals will wrongly assume that any associative flow of ideas or meanings must be the truth. After all, it isn't obviously coming from the ordinary mind, as far as they can see. Heaven help us. In ways such as this the ego persists in trying to claim all higher workings as its own doing, and to frame them in the same terms as its normal experiences in the day-to-day world; to see them all as being, at the end of the day, the fruit of the ego's will and the ego's wisdom alone.

Our higher faculties include such things as true and frequent (genuine) inspiration, which changes everything even in our day to day lives of work, and so on, and keeps changing everything for the better, at least as far as our own attitude to things is concerned. These higher faculties all bring with them a carpet, so to speak, that they ride on, a "carpet" of bliss, or of profound inner peace. I would go so far as to insist that if you're not contacting that bliss, or that great joy, at least for moments each day, then you haven't activated those higher faculties yet.

What's left over apart from that is our lower nature. Mostly this is dominated by the ego. Unfortunately we have to remain mostly being that until such a time as we change to feeling and getting immersed in the Light of Truth. The life of the lower nature is dominated by division, by conflict, and also by limitation at every turn. The higher nature, by contrast, acts through the transcendence of all limitation. Of course, that does still leave the challenge of how to fully "incarnate" such transcendence in the society we live in, a society that has been built or preserved primarily, though not exclusively, through the work of egos.

The challenge is for us to transform our lower nature, to turn the caterpillar into a butterfly. The only way into the higher existence is through the rising of something that's in the lower. This involves integration, particularly within oneself, to replace or deal with division and ego. Experience integration deeply and frequently enough, and its workings will start to substitute more and more for the division in your life.

This is why it's so important for us to practice and drink in the love of pure Existence, if we can. If nothing else, whenever during the day we get reminded, we should stop and reflect on and experience, feel, what it's like for us simply to be alive.

TraineeHuman

7th February 2015, 06:30

There's a dilemma for anybody who's living mostly from their lower nature, or who doesn't believe they've had much vividly memorable experience of their higher nature:
If what they "normally" or practically always experience is their lower nature, how do they clearly understand what experiencing the alternative might be?
Below I'll quote a very interesting statement from Shunryu Suzuki (the great Zen master who was the Zen Patriarch at the time) that sheds some light on how to solve this dilemma. But to continue to describe the problem, how do those not so familiar with their higher nature clearly see how and why the lower nature really is lower, rather than just who they are right now?

To make things worse, there's the fact that the lower nature is really made up of many personalities, all of them in disagreement with one another and often even with themselves. Indeed, because everything is actually alive, it follows that each little force inside us is a living thing. The apparent freedom and self-assertion of our personal being to which we're so profoundly attached (as this Forum demonstrates, and OK, that does also have a very positive side if you get over the attachment), conceals a subjection to a thousand suggestions, impulses, forces that we have made extraneous to our little person. Our ego, surely, is at every moment the slave, toy and puppet of many beings, powers, forces, and influences.

We also find that inwardly, no less than outwardly, we're not alone in the world. We don't really live apart from the world in some inner privacy or solitude, at all. Over half our thoughts and feelings are not our own in the sense that they take form out of ourselves. (For instance, for two days after you see a movie, it keeps replaying inside your mind, taking up about half of your memory at a subconscious level.) It's very rare to find anyone who's truly original at all, in anything, strictly speaking. A large part comes to us from others or from the environment, whether as raw material or as manufactured imports, or from other worlds or planes or forces or beings.

The very interesting statement from Shunryu Suzuki is that: "To tame a wild horse, you have to give it a very big paddock to run around in". Here, of course, the "horse" is the ego or the lower nature. Let's appreciate that this statement of Suzuki's was initially intended for Zen monks, but then published for a wider, general audience. So, Suzuki isn't advocating an "anything goes" or a self-indulgent approach. The monks were already living a quite disciplined lifestyle, and that discipline would have made it necessary for them to learn to apply considerable intention (or higher will) throughout every day to not give attention to many egoic impulses or habits. That sort of applied intention is necessary, I claim. But what Suzuki was saying -- very, very wisely, in my opinion -- was that the monastic lifestyle is itself in some ways a trap. He was saying that actually the key to taming the wild horse is to expose it to a much bigger picture, and greater forces. And that the way the ego comes to eventually yield to something higher inside us is through its discovering that it's utterly ignorant about how to handle those greater forces. And that by its very nature it's incapable of ever handling them with any real understanding.

There's no way getting around it. The transition from the lower nature to the higher nature's gaining some permanent footing is a painful one for the lower nature. No ego enjoys discovering that it's a fool at every turn, and realizing it always has been a fool up until now. But learn this it must, and eventually does (often over lifetimes, presumably). The Higher working isn't the working which the egoistic mind desires or approves of. The ego must now over and over again discover that it's almost always in error or fantasy, and that admitting this is the only way it can ever find truth. Ditto regarding imperfection versus relative perfection, and suffering versus freedom from suffering. Humble pie all the way. The ego at first refuses to travel blind like this, and at first rebels and loses courage, which leads to further rebellion. Against what, or who? For the ego at such a point is also gradually discovering that the independence it imagines it had is purely a mirage, as only the HM and other Higher parts genuinely have any real unity within themselves.

TraineeHuman

8th February 2015, 02:34

Here's a secret about Alzheimers. I happen to know that everyone who has Alzheimers eventually becomes an expert astral traveler, not to mention a daily visitor to greatly expanded realms of consciousness.

Why is this? The answer is, that disease forces the individual to die to much of the ordinary mind. Imagine. Death of the (lower) mind. That automatically brings death of major parts of the ego with it.

The only way to activate the higher nature is to surrender to it. And to do so because one totally sees that there's no other way. It's all about ego death, after the realization that the normal "you" (the ego) doesn't know how to get any real freedom from suffering. There are many shades and levels of ego death, actually, even though they all seem total at the time. But it's better not to wait till such a time as (heaven forbid) you may be getting Alzheimers, and finding that much of the lower you has been blotted out.

Death means a total cessation, and total dis-identfication. Nothing less will do. Whatever "nothing" that's there left over after the "death", all that is your higher nature, if the dying truly has been total enough. Those with Alzheimers must surrender to that inner "nothing" because it's all they have. It's timeless, and in its core it's indestructible. They know that apart from that "nothing", they have no true light to guide them, no will to move them, no awareness to hold them together. So they take the plunge into that "nothing". In other words, they surrender to it, and from that point on they largely listen to the rhythm of that drummer.

Only after first hitting rock bottom. Once you've truly reached rock bottom, the only way you can go is up.

Ikarusion

11th February 2015, 15:17

The reason why meditators don't at first remember their inner self is that they haven't learnt to accept such experiences. Those experiences are happening in their inner being. That will initially be disconnected from all body consciousness, so it may seem like "nothing". All I can do is reassure you that if you are getting as far as that disconnection from body consciousness, you're making faster progress than ever before. Eventually you'll start experiencing strong joy and peace -- and even get glimpses of the beginnings of Divine Love.
wonderful post. i have had such a short glimpse last week, i believe. let me explain.

i dont meditate regulary, but i try to do at least 10min before going to bed, or if time is short just remain still in body and mind in bed.
last week i was in a very calm and clear state in the evening and i went to meditate trying to be still and when thoughts would come up, just not engage them and let them go. each time i did, i seemed to go a bit deeper into meditation.
at a certain point i would notice white light and i slowly started to smile and then laugh. out of nowhere some bliss came to me through that stillness.

unfortunately me laughing out loud kinda brought me out of it and i couldnt get there again fast enough, so i went to bed.

however, i had many different sensations before, often i feel my body heating up, and sometimes i notice light, but never have i felt like this before.

this is a good motivator for me to keep on, so i can get more of that wonderful joy. :)

also makes me wonder what else could come out of the same state.

pianoman1954

11th February 2015, 17:45

I have only recently been researching OBEs. The gateway to OBEs is through sleep paralysis, which is something I have been plagued with all my life. If you have never had sleep paralysis or have only experienced it very infrequently then thank your lucky stars.

The first thing you have to do on realising you can't move at all is to resist the overwhelming desire to wake up fully, which I usually manage to achieve by rapid deep breathing, which tells your brain you are awake. Also your breathing is the only thing you have any control over.

I have never managed to conquer the desire to move, but have having said that I have only recently found out that this is the springboard for OBEs so I might be in for a bit of fun in the future.

This next bit is not my own personal experience but is just what I have gleaned from research.

You will hear buzzing, whistling or other auditory manifestions, which can range from moderate to sounding a train is passing by your head. Also you will experience vibration throughout your body, which again can be moderate or can feel your on the end of a jack hammer.

Eventually these symptoms will subside and everything will go quiet.

Congratulations you've made it. You are probably in the lower fourth dimension now, but still in your body. Now you have to choose an exit technique. Apparently some people roll out to the side, and some people just sit up and climb out. Others may float out or even descend through the bed. The trick seems to be to stay calm because if you panic or get frightened you'll snap back into your body.

There seems to be a fad at the moment for OBEs and there are many videos on Youtube. What most of them are saying is that there is no danger from the OBE experience. Of course if you were a Djinn possessed person you may well be saying that.

I know people who can do this and have encountered shadow beings and other unpleasant entities. I remember Simon Parkes saying that the Djinn originally inhabited the earth and as mankind developed, their increasing vibration pushed the Djinn out of the third dimension but not fully into the fourth.

The last thing you want is for something to attach itself to you. There's only room in your body for one, know what I mean! Seriously though it's something to consider before attempting OBE.

For those who don't get sleep paralysis apparently there are other methods, but there also alot of charlatans out there, so I would use your discretion. Yet other people who are spiritually developed have had spontaneous out of body experiences.

If you want to experience sleep paralysis try sleeping on your back. It always works for me, which is why I NEVER sleep on my back.
It also cause lucid dreaming which is something I've done since childhood.

Anyway next time I get sleep paralysis LOOK OUT!

If anyone has experienced OBEs on the forum I'd really really like to hear from you, on this thread or PM me.

Take care

Pianoman

TraineeHuman

11th February 2015, 23:43

Hi, pianoman1954. Sleep paralysis is experienced mostly by beginners. It's over three decades since I last experienced it even slightly, for instance. It comes about because the individual is initially "clumsy" at "switching gears" so to speak, rather like a child when it first learns to walk. For some people it can take a few years or so before they no longer experience it at times. And no, it isn't necessary to go through it before one can go on to experience OB worlds.

(By the way, my preferred point of view is to view all states of expanded consciousness of any sort as essentially the same phenomenon. In meditation, for instance, it's common for everyone to eventually learn to move smoothly into higher dimensions, usually without ever, even once, going through sleep paralysis while in meditation.)

It's true that one does need to create protection for oneself before traveling OB. If one does this correctly, one is quite safe, at least in my experience over many years. The best thing here is to raise the level of your consciousness, e.g. by meditation or contemplation for half an hour or so, before you go to bed. Also, while OB traveling you should consciously create the intention to experience positive beings or energies only. In the first two years when I traveled regularly (nearly every night), I found that keeping an "eye" on the silver cord kept me perfectly safe all the time, all over the solar system. (Ditto with the golden cord in dimensions higher than the astral ones.) So if you do manage to see your silver cord, that works like a charm. But even if you don't, if you consciously create light or healing energy and your sovereignty wherever you travel, that will certainly cause any undesirables to keep out of your way. By the way, your silver cord is a direct link to your Oversoul, or Higher Mind.

Beings and forces in other dimensions are right here already, whether we see them or not, and to my knowledge they're really just as dangerous, if they are so, regardless of whether your vision is confined to the physical world only or whether it's more expanded at the time. Many beginners experience their own dark side rather vividly when they go OB. By definition they're not aware that it's part of them, so they see all energies that are in their dark side as something that's attacking them. But actually it's some negative side of themselves -- though it may well act independently of their will. Some of the nastiest of these shadow aspects can be ones that got attached during a drug experience or heavy drinking. But at least one is becoming aware of something that is always there inside one, and that needs to be identified and healed once one is back in the physical. It may be initially shocking to become aware of such negativity in oneself, but that's a part of developing one's self-knowledge and then self-healing.

Ikarusion

12th February 2015, 09:47

this might also help you, pianoman, if you are concerned about negative entities.
from page 65:

The HM's descent into the heart area will result in a positive outlook and the ability to experience joy in many situations where others don't. It will also mean you'll probably be pretty free of any nasties in the astral world. That's because the astral energy is in itself neutral, but your positivity will keep taking you only to positive spaces there.

remain positive. shadows can never exist in the face of light, but must hide behind other things.
of course, this is easier said then done, but can serve as a reminder in tough situations.

or, if i might nerd off for a moment:

https://scontent-a-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/p480x480/10968521_10152822303762886_5173387892561002011_n.jpg?oh=deca02fa89f363cbbfcec0106d4d61d2&oe=5553DF2B
3dAMURPVDxk

there is also a great dream of freedfox around page 60 i believe, where he encounters malevolent beings with love and compassion which gets them to move away from him. :)

TraineeHuman

13th February 2015, 00:30

Pianoman, there's an interesting verse in the New Testament (of all places) which I believe sums it up, in a way, if you do this boots and all. In the Letter to the Philippians it says:

"I have learned to always be content with whatever state I am in, regardless of what state it is."

And of course, one's being that content, and so not minding, converts negativity that may be there into something positive, or at least chases it away.

TraineeHuman

16th February 2015, 00:50

Pianoman, I should add the acknowledgement that there can indeed be dangers in venturing into the astral planes. They occur if one puts oneself into the hands of certain of the beings living there, or if one follows the suggestions of the wrong such beings. Channelers do the latter, for instance, and almost always their messages are very inaccurate and seem inauthentic or misled.

Basically, that's a deal with the devil, so to speak. Beings on the astral planes are quite often hostile to our own spiritual evolution. The only way they can trap you is by offering you occult powers and occult experiences. We need to avoid their suggestions and urgings. Rather, we should forge our own experience of the astral planes. Simply by entering even the astral dimensions, our consciousness will have expanded, and we should explore that for ourselves, in our own sovereignty, or with the aid only of individuals or beings we are 100% sure are positive and benevolent.

One distinction that many readers of or contributors to this thread never seemed to fully get was that higher-dimensional experiences can't be forced. They need to come naturally, through practices such as meditation. And they need to be used strictly and solely in service of the Divine, selflessly, and never for one's own power or in service to any beings on an astral plane.

TraineeHuman

17th February 2015, 02:36

Having spent a total of at least several decades of my life passionately and massively "following my bliss" a la how Joseph Campbell describes it, I'd like to list describe one or two of what seem to me to be the common traps for new players here.

One of the first questions is: do you really, honestly know what your bliss is, as distinct from what one or both of your parents wanted you to be? Do you really, truly know who/what your true inner self is (your HM), and what its ideal best career/life "targets" are for you? I must say that in my experience, it's very rare even today to find someone who knows this with any accuracy at all! Most little girls, at a certain age, want to be a ballerina who looks like a princess. Many young adolescent men probably want to be a professional sportsman. many adolescents would like to be the next American Idol, or the Idol or whatever from their own country. And so on. All these identities are just social conditioning. Fortunately, in most cases the facts of living and surviving make it clear to the individual that it would be foolish if not disastrous for them to sacrifice their career (or at least their day job) to follow such a socially-conditioned "bliss". But the parental conditioning cuts considerably deeper than that. Unfortunately, though, you can't know what your true "bliss" is unless you know who you (your HM) truly are. No imitations of one of your parents (or step-parents, or maybe a teacher or sibling).

Secondly, the way Campbell speaks of bliss seems to have little connection with the Vedanta teaching regarding bliss. Yes, the ultimate, in Vedanta, is to live in Bliss-Conscious-Being. But firstly, the aim is, eventually one is in contact with one's HM, which brings bliss for you into any form of work you may be doing.

For instance, in the terminology of Yoga/Vedanta, we have at least five "bodies". Physical, emotional, mental/memory, intuitively-knowing, and fifthly, the body of "bliss". That bliss isn't, strictly speaking, a form of pleasure as in contrast to suffering and sorrow, nor of the physical senses. It's a pure delight just in existing, and in feeling/knowing that the truth is, one is in fact infinite, and independent of particular circumstances of any kind.

In this thread I've already posted various information regarding bliss. But right now, though I appreciate this will be highly unpopular or likely to be dismissed as nonsense by many, I'd like to challenge everyone to spend some time critically questioning whether you really know what your HM (or "God") wants you to do for a crust. Of course, if you don''t find any form of work blissful in some way, you're not strongly in touch with the HM anyway. The whole notion that finding the right occupation will unlock bliss for you is quite flawed, though it's true the right occupation may help you to outgrow certain suffering. For instance, what if the ideal occupation for you right now is customer service? Maybe that's your HM's preference, because that would teach you to be more tolerant and sociable and helpful -- which might be major areas where your HM wants you to become more balanced in right now, because in the long run that will help you to outgrow certain areas of unhappiness.

TraineeHuman

20th February 2015, 03:26

Some more regarding bliss. Bliss is a quality of the Divine. But if one hasn't found or truly somehow glimpsed the Divine yet (one of the seven highest dimensions), I would say that in a sane society the quest for the Divine ought to be a kind of obsession in one's life, one that doesn't let up -- that's the Divine, or the Oneness, without the trappings of religiosity,of course. The quest for the Divine can also of course be looked at as a quest for the biggest picture possible, though not primarily in an intellectual sense. (A concept or ideal is just a finger pointing at the beautiful moon --- and it's false if we grab onto it, because the moon doesn't resemble a finger at all.) Alternatively, for example, the quest for the Divine can be viewed as a quest for the (true) bliss that underlies everything else.

One can also be touched by the Divine without really having an experience of it as yet, but this can be enough to move one into surrendering to the Divine. Being loved deeply and genuinely enough can do this. For many people, bliss only arrives in stages or glimmers, often with lengthy gaps between appearances, at first.

Bliss is very, very attractive, but it does need to be experienced and integrated into oneself in a very balanced way. We need to avoid the slippery slope of extremism here. Also we need to avoid heightened excitement, which always comes from the ego. If e.g. we're excited about experiencing true bliss, the bliss won't be egoic but the excitement totally will be.

So, what would I say is the first step in the pursuit of the Divine, or in the pursuit of bliss as Vedanta/Yoga see it? Definitely, absolutely, the practice of concentration, of an inner gathering-up of your own consciousness. This is necessary to take you beyond the ordinary mind, beyond the world of concepts. The ordinary mind is superficial. Unfortunately, many people spend so much time being dominated by it, they don't fully realize they're missing out on what's real. As I said in my last post, they don't know their own self, they don't know who they truly are at all at a deeper level.

The practice of prolonged, silent concentration automatically brings a stilling of the ordinary mind. You may notice that what's left will initially be a concentration leading deeper into your heart center, amd also one leading into your head (in an area of "looking" instead of thinking). As you reach or go deeper and deeper into either or both of these centers, you'll shade into being in your psychic being, your HM. It will start to self-activate, and start to take over your life. And part of the "petrol" it runs on always includes some bliss, or strong joy at least -- bliss not at anything in particular, but just at existing. Or, as the Buddhists like to say, just at "suchness", at being there. Also it brings you joy or bliss simply at the beauty and rightness of itself, and indeed ultimately of the Divine,

You can also, through prolonged concentration, go deeper into the mid-head center. Actually, in my experience, it's preferable for quite a few people today to concentrate through both the head and the heart together, if one is up to it. Once you reach the third center (the HM), you'll be using all three anyway, combined seamlessly. But the heart "vessel" should preferably be opened first, and then kept open from then on. That also enables you to fall back on a wonderful inner peace whenever you need to -- such as if all the planets have lined up against you this week, astrologically speaking.

Concentration on the mid-head center and going deeper into that will gradually take you more and more beyond "mind" as you knew it. The quicker you surrender to the "haze" and accept the "haze", the sooner you'll find yourself freed and reaching an experience of infinity, of not being limited. At that point you're in touch with the third center, the oversoul center, which now becomes a kind of direct plug-in to your HM, and a direct receiver from the Divine. It's important, though, to remember that the concentration of the consciousness in the head is only a preparation for its rising to the centre above.

To begin with the heart center, if you can do it, is the more desirable. Some find it easier to start from the head center. That's OK, but they then need to go back and go deeper into their heart and into caring about others.

After all that, the next step is to integrate your outer behavior with what you've achieved on an inner level. Otherwise you'll live with a big split between what's inner and some of your behavior or habits. Sort of Spirit versus Matter.

Ikarusion

20th February 2015, 08:31

wonderful post.

my awareness usually moves to my head. often it feels like my awareness is few inches in front of my face or in/around it.
thats where i feel it mostly during stillness meditation. it really feels like looking.
sometimes though, different areas have twitches or other phenomena which can make me shift my awareness to them, but sooner or later i let go again.

"bliss not at anything in particular, but just at existing" - thats definitely what i had a glimpse of. the joy of just being. :)

TraineeHuman

23rd February 2015, 02:23

Continuing about bliss, the first step is to get to the point where you find you bring on at least strong glimpses of it every day. That does eventually come to many experienced meditators. Personally, I meditate for at least ten minutes each morning because it's like filling my tank with high octane petrol (pardon such an anti-environmental metaphor). Somehow that little dose of bliss lasts me the rest of the day, though I also normally experience bliss during the rest of the day too -- but that initial "hit" in the morning is often needed in my case, at least for now. There is nothing more important than that, for me, at present.

Apart from meditation, certain other wholesome activities can also bring on bliss in a safe way. A hobby that you have a great passion for will do this. In Zen Buddhism the monks were required to pursue at least two fine arts for an hour or more every day outside their meditation time -- presumably with the intention that over time they would dig down into the vein of bliss and passion by that means too.

Once the bliss does come daily, even if very briefly, something gigantic in you has become unleashed. Strictly speaking, bliss is part of the Divine, no less. At first you'll probably be contacting only a limited or partial "version" of it. But at heart it's central to the widest, most ultimate experience, something that's super-human at this time. It's central to what all our spiritual evolution and even our biological evolution were ultimately heading for. At last, in certain ways, everything makes sense, and for the first time. Our mental faculties are all about trying to grope towards the truth, but this is a direct experience of the deeper underlying truth. As I've said in this thread, beyond feelings or sensations such as pleasure, pain and indifference we have bliss, which reconciles such opposites/etc and transcends them by bringing in their fulfilled, higher version. Beyond the apparent but dull certainty of the solidity of matter we now find the Divine essence, of pure self-aware Existence.

There was never any credible reason for the craziness and randomness and pain of human existence but this. This is what it was always about. It was veiled from you, but bliss is what tears the veil down.

Once it comes regularly, we at first find ourselves stunned, in a way. So we automatically detach from everything else for a while and observe our own outer and inner behavior and that of all around us. Some people, perhaps sensing that bliss is linked to immortality, like to consciously surrender to the inner blissful self they have now found. But the detachment and the surrender are really two sides of the same coin at this point. And it now becomes essential for us to integrate all the bliss and its spin-offs with our everyday life fully and in a balanced way, to make it all fully real in our lives and not just in an occasional moment.

TraineeHuman

26th February 2015, 23:03

There is a shortcut to experiencing Source, and hence bliss, in a safe and integrated way. Readers of this thread will appreciate that I'm saying this in spite of my strong scepticism about most shortcuts in the field of spirituality.

It's described and demonstrated In R. Scott Lemriel's interview with Randy Maugans at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qri6ICwK1k
starting at 1:43:00.

It works for me. I can confirm that practically all the claims Lemriel makes about it are true for me, however far-fetched they may sound. I would caution, though, that I've noticed that this method unleashes healing energy coming from the Divine worlds, and I fear that healing process may at least partly block the "vision" of Source for many. This is because they will have so much "static", to change the metaphor, that their "static" will cloak their perception of what they're actually experiencing. But I suspect many may still notice at least something. To clearly be aware of Source you do need to be fully present and also to unblock your awareness sufficiently that you can see with some clarity what it is you're actually experiencing.

The Hu chant is used very extensively in Eckankar, and I first learnt about it there. At first I thought this is just another mantra among hundreds. But then I discovered that it's more than that. Lemriel claims that it's the primordial Sound of Source "before" there was a universe of "creation". Well, my own experiential investigating suggests that the primordial or original sound of the physical universe at least is like an "oo" accompanied by a less strong "ee", and rather electric sounding ("after" the physical universe has come into existence, that is). But I guess that "Hu" (pronounced like "Hugh": hee-yoo-oo-ooh) may be the closest sound to that the human voice would make.

TraineeHuman

3rd March 2015, 23:38

Your Higher Mind (or your "soul" or "Higher Self") is actually your psychic self. Once you've opened it up a little, you become very sensitive in certain ways, and hence potentially very vulnerable. Unless you take the right steps to protect yourself, there 's a real danger you can become continually swept from one extreme to another, and vulnerable to hostile or other forces. The problem here is that your psychic self is "the great unknown", it's nothing like the ordinary self you are familiar with. And at the same time it contains much more powerful forces and energies than the ordinary self does. Also, you now seem to have much greater freedom. You may even have the insight, for instance, that you continually select, and in effect create, the (particular version of the) entire world you experience. But how do you get a handle on this newfound freedom rather than being swept this way and that? Taming the ego helps, but you also absolutely need something from a higher plane again than that of the psychic self.

In a post some time ago Seeker Joe referred us to a link and a book regarding "The Gentle Way": http://www.thegentlewaybook.com/, which explains how one may systematically and, so to speak, scientifically, prove for oneself that benevolent help is available. Certainly, I consider that appealing to your own guardian angels for support and protection will greatly shield you against the undesirable effects of the powerful psychic "winds".

However, now that R. Scott Lemriel has made it public as explained in post #1961, let me say that, as counter-intuitive as it may sound, I have verified that the "Hu" mantra -- unlike every other mantra, it seems -- does connect everyone directly to Source, and hence to full protection. As Lemriel has pointed out, it also brings one in touch with powerful (100% benevolently) protective forces connected to Source. I guess what may also work for some individuals would be to use "God" (or "Source") as a mantra or as the object of intense contemplation. Even if you don't have any awareness that you're in connection with Source through using "Hu", I can assure you you are, provided you are being fully present while doing so.

Joe Akulis

5th March 2015, 19:30

TraineeHuman

6th March 2015, 05:38

"To clearly be aware of Source you do need to be fully present and also to unblock your awareness sufficiently that you can see with some clarity what it is you're actually experiencing."

But, you're not referring to a kind of third-eye sight, are you? I'm guessing that's not what you meant when you used the word "see" there... I'm hoping you're talking more about perceiving than actually seeing. I know some people who have fabulous third-eye "sight", and it depresses me to hear them talk about it because I have none.

Although Source is a whole different "level" of reality indeed than the soul or HM, it seems to be quite common (but not "compulsory" at all) for those who connect to/as Source to see what their physically-based mind then interprets (and in many ways misinterprets) as light of basically one of two colors. Those colors are either a brilliant white, or a kind of molten-looking gold. Anyone who sees blue-violet (or deep blue) is just seeing the "light" of their own soul, and not Source at all, not even slightly. (Incidentally, it isn't true by any means, either, that any experience of (external or internal) brilliant white or golden light that's seen in the mind's eye is an experience of Source.)

Some may also see mental pictures, such as scenes, and so on. Again, that's just coming from the ordinary mind, which simply can't operate in any dimensions above the upper mental. This is a trap for newish players. You could possibly be at one of the worlds of Source and yet your mind will try to show you a nice beach, say.

Quite a few also experience a sound, though once again it's their physical mind "interpreting" the experience down into physical terms. There are actually seven levels of Source, and everyone seems to "hear" the same sound if they access the same level of Source. I haven't quite worked out yet whether "Hu" (properly done) takes one into the second lowest level of Source (often called "nirvana") or the third lowest ("meta-nirvana"). But that level has a sound almost like many violins or strings, or something high-pitched at any rate.

Whenever I access Source I always initially experience heavy pressure in the mid-head area, and some also throughout the "spikes" of energy around my head that radiate out of the mid-head when I'm meditating. That's understandable, because Source's consciousness always has greater awareness than what I normally consider my own consciousness. As a result, it brings up areas where I have unconsciousness. Again, my mind "translates" these down into the physical, as heavy energetic pressure. So I actually welcome that pressure whenever it comes, and somehow then don't find it uncomfortable at all, and largely tune most or all of it out quite quickly anyway.

It can be misleading to even talk about these things to someone who hasn't truly and consciously experienced Source yet. Source operates at a level wholly beyond and above anything that can be mentally created. Source is largely undefinable. That's the level where that "golden" or "bright white" "light" operates. Most psychic healers seem to operate from the lower, soul level, I'm afraid -- which isn't the same thing at all, not by a long chalk. Also, anyone trying to visualize golden light, for instance, will be sabotaging themselves with an artificial mental creation instead of the real thing. The brilliant white or the golden "light" appears to you when it wills. You can't summon it yourself.

Although I do "see" that "light" and "hear" those "sounds", I put so little attention on them that I don't always even notice them. I don't seem to be able to ignore the "pressure" in the same sort of way, but I manage to detach from even that too, after feeling its onset. I've always focused on feeling these things in a very abstract way that still is experienced as vividly real, and even more real than "normal" reality. For instance, at the lowest level of Source my experience will be dominated by the feeling that I am certainly and literally everywhere, and expanded to being as large as the entire universe (multiverse) at least. I can do this with my eyes open, and then my mind usually, at the beginning, creates the optical illusion that the "energy" of the consciousness I'm then one with makes everything in the physical world (and beyond) "hollow" in some way because that consciousness pervades everything fully, even in some seemingly physical sense.

Ultimately, perceptions seemingly of "light" or "sound" or whatever are kind of superficial here, if not misleading. Much more important, when one experiences Source, is the certain feeling that everything has suddenly been wiped clean, and that suddenly there's a mind-boggling freshness to absolutely everything, for you. Plus the certain knowledge that you're somehow in direct contact with Truth, with the real McCoys, the real reality. And there's the most amazing insight of the rightness of everything, the way you're experiencing everything at such a time. Plus the easy bliss that comes with such a perception of the utter rightness.

Unblocking one's awareness: Would exercises related to expanding the silence in between our thoughts help with that?

Absolutely.

Joe Akulis

6th March 2015, 13:39

Ikarusion

6th March 2015, 16:20

now im not sure about this, but i believe it is better/stronger to create the physical vibrations, plus i think being off key isnt too much of a biggie.
with practice youll probably get closer to the "real" sound naturally. id say just keep at it.

but then again i only did this once now, and rarely chant in such a manner. i do like it though.

there was one instance where i had a sore throat from a cold and i used throat chakra frequencies i found on youtube to guide those vibrations to the throat and also chanted.
shortly after i felt better for the whole evening. sadly the soreness returned the next day. still this was some direct feedback for me.

the one time i did the hu, i started to feel a bit light headed after a bit. i guess this can be a normal symptom though.
it is a slight change of consciousness though, so i do welcome it.

is there a prefered time for doing this? morning, night? since it reacts to your pineal gland, night, or at least darkness might be prefered i think. whatcha reckon trainee?
or are we overthinking this and should just do the excercise? :)

Joe Akulis

6th March 2015, 19:32

Thanks Ika. I've been testing it out a little. I'll drop back and let you know how it goes for me. I have not had the chance yet to get into a meditative state and then try the mantra. Want to do that soon.

One other question I have for Trainee that has been bouncing around in my head, and colliding with other things that I thought I had a handle on:

R. Scott in that interview says something that makes me call into question all of the rest of the things he is claiming to be such an authority on. He said at one point that this whole reincarnative cycle that we are a part of here on Earth is just one big trap that the "bad guys" put in place to turn us all into cattle, or slaves.

I seriously do not think it can all be waved off in one simple statement like that. But I do not have the experience--that I am currently aware of--to be able to judge such a statement one way or the other.

TH, do you agree that the veil of forgetfulness that we put on when we come here, and the reincarnative cycle is one big trap that was intentionally designed with malevolent purpose? I still trust the benevolent intent or purpose behind the Hu mantra, but it would help out a lot if you could shed a little more light on that particular comment of his for me....

Love and light to all who are reading,
Joe

TraineeHuman

7th March 2015, 00:01

It's important to get the right pitch/note of the Hu sound when you make it, isn't it? If I'm making the sound, but I'm off key or the pitch is too low or too high, will that have an effect on the results?

Also, do you agree that this could be done strictly mentally, like on the train to work, without physically making the sound?

The pitch is irrelevant. Yes, you can also do it silently in your head. Though that does require the ability to concentrate strongly.

In the first 30 minutes or so of another video, Scott Lemriel talks about it as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGzCMZ2eWaA

He suggests that one should start by thinking of someone one dearly loves, and holding that feeling of just wanting to love them absolutely. For me, that sort of beautiful feeling comes up naturally in my heart center when I say "Hu". I would call it the heart aspect of the bliss that comes up. For me, the mental aspect of the bliss is a kind of awareness of great beauty being there as well, somehow. But if one hasn't progressed in learning to meditate properly far enough to open one's heart center easily, Lemriel's suggestion of bringing up a loved one will work to temporarily get your heart center open. As I've said, such permanent opening of the heart center should ideally be the first stage of achievement in meditation once one has learnt to concentrate in such a way as to get the ordinary mind to behave (to shut up and stay in its place, basically).

In this video interview Lemriel also suggests holding the strong intention that you will receive a Divine level of truth. Again, that should suffice to temporarily open the mid-head and Oversoul centers for this to work.

If not, then I guess you just need to learn how to meditate better, I'm afraid. Which does seem to come to people if they practice an hour or more a day for several months.

By the way, Lemriel claims that the reason why Hu isn't just another mantra is that it invokes the presence of the Seres people, who seeded all intelligent life in this part of the galaxy, such as humans and all the others, billions of years ago. He claims the Seres have come back, and have made the nuclear bomb buttons not work about a dozen times, because they won't allow humanity to engage in a nuclear war, while they allowed Hiroshima and Nagasaki just to show how damaging nukes can be.

Lemriel also claims that if you meet an unfriendly ET or whatever, all you need to do is use the Hu sound and the creature will totally leave you alone.

TraineeHuman

7th March 2015, 00:14

there was one instance where i had a sore throat from a cold and i used throat chakra frequencies i found on youtube to guide those vibrations to the throat and also chanted.
shortly after i felt better for the whole evening. sadly the soreness returned the next day. still this was some direct feedback for me.

The Divine (and hence proper chanting of Hu) does bring massive psychological or spiritual healing. But any physical healing it brings is just an indirect offshoot. If you chant Hu hoping to get physical healing, you'll be disappointed, except in this kind of spin-off sense.

the one time i did the hu, i started to feel a bit light headed after a bit.

That's it. But some beautiful love/bliss as well, hopefully.

is there a prefered time for doing this? morning, night? since it reacts to your pineal gland, night, or at least darkness might be prefered i think. whatcha reckon trainee?
or are we overthinking this and should just do the excercise? :)

No, there's no preferred time. Yes, it sounds like you were overthinking it a little. Although this may be a discussion site, spirituality is all about the doing.

TraineeHuman

7th March 2015, 01:25

R. Scott in that interview says something that makes me call into question all of the rest of the things he is claiming to be such an authority on. He said at one point that this whole reincarnative cycle that we are a part of here on Earth is just one big trap that the "bad guys" put in place to turn us all into cattle, or slaves.

I seriously do not think it can all be waved off in one simple statement like that. But I do not have the experience--that I am currently aware of--to be able to judge such a statement one way or the other.

TH, do you agree that the veil of forgetfulness that we put on when we come here, and the reincarnative cycle is one big trap that was intentionally designed with malevolent purpose? I still trust the benevolent intent or purpose behind the Hu mantra, but it would help out a lot if you could shed a little more light on that particular comment of his for me....

Love and light to all who are reading,
Joe

In the very, very distant past of humanity, as best as I can remember it or access it, human beings were immortal but physical. Then those who had seeded them came to see that physical death and rebirth would be a very wonderful gift for humanity to have. It wipes the slate clean somewhat, providing fresh, new experiences. So, I don't agree with Lemriel that reincarnation is a trap, if that's what Lemriel claims.

It is true, though, that in relatively recent times (I think Lemriel says 500,000 years ago, but as best I know it's more like 35,000 years ago), the draconians messed with humanity and slowly turned this planet into a place of suffering for humanity, and of slavery. It was never meant to be a place of suffering. Challenging, yes. And I guess most people unfortunately don't understand that challenges are something to be treasured. And to gain victory over and release from, until the next challenge. (Well, that's the HM's point of view!)

If the reincarnation cycle really was a nasty trap, the question is, why would the "good guys" allow it? I guess Lemriel claims the only reason the "bad guys" haven't been kicked out already is that they're sore losers and they'd blow up the planet and turn it into another asteroid belt if they were forced to leave too abruptly.

TraineeHuman

7th March 2015, 11:22

do you agree that this could be done strictly mentally, like on the train to work, without physically making the sound?

Not only can it be done silently like that. But also, I and others, including Lemriel, have discovered that if the Hu is done half-properly it brings total psychic protection. In the past I've warned some that, most unfortunately, there are dangers in meditating in places like the train or bus, and even, for different reasons, in naturally beautiful places. On the train or bus, the danger is that you make your psyche open to whatever's in the psyches of others around you. If you're an experienced meditator or mental/emotional self-healer, you may well be up to the task of clearing any picked up parts of others' baggage out of yourself. But, amazingly, it seems that the Hu protects you from any need to worry about all that. Apparently this has something to do with the Hu being an explicit invocation of some sort of the Beings who created the human race at its very beginning. A number of times I've clearly seen rather formless-looking "blobs" who I identified were beings from one of the Divine worlds, connecting with me when I've been doing the Hu chant (yes, silently, in my head).

Ikarusion

7th March 2015, 18:59

That's it. But some beautiful love/bliss as well, hopefully.

yes, some. sorry for not mentioning that.

TraineeHuman

8th March 2015, 02:12

In some of his other videos, Lemriel talks about quite a variety of aspects of humanity's true original history and also a number of ways in which some of the higher dimensions, and expansion/travel through them, fit in with all this. Particularly in the following video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5GJmFWK5ZM

This video is Part Two of Lemriel's talk at the International IFO Congress 2014 in Bergen. Starting at 0:44:00 he says more about how and why the Hu works the way it does, and he does so also again in Part One.

TraineeHuman

11th March 2015, 01:24

Until recently, I'd regarded mantra meditation as generally a somewhat less effective or less "advanced" type of meditation than several other types. But one's inner direct experience is the ultimate authority (as long as one can verify that the experience is real rather than fantasy or delusion). I've somewhat recently found that the Hu mantra does put me into direct contact with Source when I practice it intensely enough. I reached this conclusion independently of Scott Lemriel's having come to something very similar. Also in spite of my initial reluctance to accept that this could even possibly be true.

The Sufis (and also at least some Sikhs) have traditionally used "Hoo" as their primary mantra. ("Hoo" works the same way as "Hugh".) The Sufis have always claimed that "Hoo" is the true name of Source, and that in using the correct name one is invoking direct help from within the worlds of Source itself. I guess some would talk of this as bypassing various "gates" or "portals" or whatever. In greater India, outside of Sufism (and Sikkhism?) the mantra "Aum" has traditionally been claimed to do and be almost exactly the same as what the "Hoo" or "Hu" mantra is. Well, my own experience, and that of Lemriel's, has been that the "Aum" mantra doesn't do that job. Still, when I vocalize "Hu" on the outbreath, towards the end I find it changes to a sound that's probably halfway between "oo" and the "au" in "Aum".

Lemriel, like myself, has found that when carried out properly this mantra takes one to planes above what he calls "the Buddhist Void". That "Void" seems to correspond to what I would call the formless worlds, and yes, the Source worlds do lie above the formless planes. Lemriel says that "the Void" seems empty but there's actually something there after all. I would say that yes, the formless worlds may seem empty to anyone who is consciously or otherwise trying to find any form. Certainly the formless worlds can and do contain forms. But in their essence they're without form, and without "frequency" or "vibration", and anyone who seeks to penetrate to their deeper essence will find an undeniable apparent "emptiness", and even may conclude that their own essence is "nothing" or "emptiness". By the way, the sound "Hoo" does of course have a form, but what it points to doesn't. And what's important here is not the finger that's pointing at the moon but "the moon" itself.

Talking of "voidness" can be ambiguous partly because also a very central side of Source is an apparent passivity or "emptiness" or profoundly immovable peace. In addition, when one dies for most there's a brief period of "voidness" or "blackness" when "the lights go out", so to speak. That's just a matter of adjusting to the astral, and then one's astral "sight" comes on and things are fine.

Another thing I've noticed is that, for me at least, the "Hoo" or "Hu" mantra gives one access to Divine healing energy -- not physical healing energy, but psychological/spiritual. So, if when you are in the "Hu" space you can directly face any horribleness you see or feel inside you (whether the horribleness is "yours" or "someone else's"), you may experience some very powerful healing of your inner traumas etc.

Ikarusion

11th March 2015, 13:41

Ikarusion

11th March 2015, 16:43

btw: of course i see how prolonged hunger, can make one so mad that, one would jump the nearest animal and just bite into it.
because of a great bodily desire and uncertainty, when and what one would find next to eat. such as famine.

but in a controlled way, with options to eat at any time one wants, but simply choosing not to for a while: in this context your quote becomes hard to understand for me.

TraineeHuman

12th March 2015, 00:57

I knew that persistence, persistence, persistence is biggest the key to success in any field.
this is also what i learned and got told during kung fu classes. as long as you keep practicing, you'll keep getting better.
no one can become a master without putting in the work, and therefore anyone can become a master, after he has done continuous work to better himself.

By the way, Cristian, since you've quoted someone talking about fasting, let me say I know that fasting is one of the quickest ways a person can go insane -- as I'm sure some professionals at psychiatric institutions can probably confirm for you. I suspect there may be some ways to make it much safer, but I haven't researched that topic, as yet.

now, you write you haven't researched the topic. still i would very much like it, if you could elaborate on the dangers of going insane through fasting.

are these comparable to people having spontaneous obe's and therefore being unprepared and at greater danger to be hurt by their own dark side and fears?

i did for several months, if not almost a year on and off fast every now and then.
usually around18-24h, sometimes four times, sometimes once a week. i think only once have i fasted almost two days. maybe more like one and a half.
always drank water and unsweetened tea, took nothing else too me.

i liked it a lot. at a certain point you dont think about food and seem clearer in the mind.
i assume the biggest upside for spiritual practices is that no energy is used up to digest food and therefore is freely available for anything else, namely mind practices.
meditation. you may be, or probably are less grounded though. but perhaps that only helps with things such as astral travel.

i never felt bad during fasting, only a little less energized.
i think a fasting day a week is actually something quite cleansing for body and mind. i always liked it and felt clearer and less out of balance.

that is why your post is not easy for me to understand. please advise.

regards,
ika

Let's look at the physiological side of fasting first. (This is mostly based on information from a site I subscribe to called What Doctors Don't Tell You. That site provides details of the latest or best available research, with a strong bias in favor of alternative medicine.)

Yes, fasting detoxes the body. But a water-only fast, for instance, certainly also produces a severe negative nitrogen balance. Animal studies suggest some bodily processes that this affects don't revert to normal when one starts eating again. Also, at least in older people, the levels of leptins and insulin drop greatly and don't return to normal for some time, nor does the red blood cell count, and likewise free fatty acids increase considerably.

On the other hand, fasting can possibly reverse type two diabetes, and it releases a certain protein that protects the heart and normalizes blood pressure.

Certainly one-day fasts, or 12 or 14 hour fasts, would lessen some of the negative effects but still detox the body. I understand it helps to be sensible in other ways also, such as drinking fresh vegetable juices rather than just water. But also plenty of water, hopefully filtered.

Psychologically and psychically, I have to rely on anedotal evidence and my own observations, including observations of what I've experienced myself during 18-hour fasts of my own years ago. Firstly, for instance, ten to fifteen years ago I used to have a spiritual teacher who was extremely psychic (and at the beginning one of my guardian angels insisted I work with her on the grounds that she is a reincarnation of the famous Oracle at Delphi who advised Alexander and so on). She had worked as a social worker for a number of years, often dealing with people with mental health problems. She said she had ascertained that a majority of the individuals who had been detained (required to live) at one of the major mental health hospitals in my city had engaged in regular fasting, and that in a majority of those cases that had been a very major cause of their deterioration to the point where they had to be detained.

What happens when an individual is fasting? Yes, they loosen their ties to the physical senses, and hence their emotional and mental body both disconnect considerably from their normal interaction with the physical and roam free, so to speak. The problem here, as with any drug experience (including getting drunk), is that usually the ego has considerable control over the emotional and mental bodies. Hence it too has now been released into astral and even mental worlds which have considerably greater energy than the physical. High drama. In the physical, the ego is normally kept at bay somewhat. But now it becomes a bull in a china shop. Yes, to experience these worlds temporarily free of the chains of the physical gives one a "high", plus tastes or views of worlds at least slightly higher (and hence much more multi-optioned) than the physical. But unless you have learnt how to teach the ego to submit to the HM like some well-trained dog I guess, the ego will be eagerly doing two unfortunate things.

Firstly, it will be the "evil ET or robot" that will be gathering newfound sources of greater energy, mostly behind your back, to strengthen its agenda to trap you more fully in desires and in negative or selfish emotions or considerations. Hence to weaken your connection with your HM as much as it can. Secondly, being rather dark itself, it will automatically attract dark energies or forces, more easily now that it's in some slightly higher-energy world. And it may be in the interests both of these black forces and of the ego to hide this from your conscious knowledge!

So I guess that if a person has maybe truly mastered their ego to a considerable extent, and therefore is consciously in touch with their HM within them, then they will be able to avoid all or practically all of the demonic (i.e., dark) psychological side-effects likely to come with frequent fasting. Maybe that helps explain why I've very rarely encountered hostile beings/forces in OB worlds directly, even though I've seen there are many hostiles there. But normally they just don't try to approach me. Not when there are plenty of "suckers" who unfortunately, indeed tragically, haven't first cultivated the safety of the full connection with their HM, or at least have created and use proper psychic protection while there.

Ikarusion

12th March 2015, 07:48

TraineeHuman

12th March 2015, 10:17

very interesting. thank you. sneaky ego.

are there ways to counter the negative effects?
can we do pranayama to counter the negative influences of longer fasts on our bodies?
can we do some other practice to unify our different (mental, emotional etc.) bodies?
or do you think its wisest to just stick to short fasts?

:yo:

It sounds to me that you're saying something effectively similar to the following. You want to play The Sorcerer's Apprentice a la the story. That is, you want to have fun using all The Sorcerer's powers although presumably you don't know how to control them or how to be aware of what kinds of undesirable things you'll unknowingly unleash while you do so. Then, after that's over, you want to do pranayama because that will somehow totally cleanse you of all the damage you caused, in your ignorance, by misusing the Sorcerer's powers and privileges. Is that roughly right?

Well, for one thing, if you consider pranayama is so amazingly powerful (I don't entirely understand why it ever could be, even in some obsessively intensive form such as some Kriya Yogis do it, but ...), then I'm afraid I don't understand -- by your logic -- why using it prior to beginning some fasting would fail to turn you into an authentic Sorcerer rather than just the Apprentice, so to speak.

I'm sorry, but I don't know of any shortcut here. Humanity has needed the ego in order to evolve the consciousness of having individuality in a higher sense than what the animals have. But after that the ego needs to be outgrown somewhat before we may reasonably try to plunge into certain activities in realms beyond the physical.

Ikarusion

12th March 2015, 10:40

ou, i was just being curious really.

i inquired of other possible options that could make fasting safer. but now, i suppose there are none, or none to our knowledge.
this damn ego reaches far and wide. http://thegforum.ch/images/smilies/damn.gif

TraineeHuman

14th March 2015, 09:02

this damn ego reaches far and wide. http://thegforum.ch/images/smilies/damn.gif

Yes, but I'd also say thank goodness for the ego. It takes us, indeed ultimately just about compels us, toward the transcendence not only of itself but ultimately it shows us how we may also transcend the cosmos itself. How "far out" is that!

Really the ego is an illusion, a construct, a fiction. But what an illusion. How masterfully it fools us. I've mentioned before that, being illusory, the ego is really just a vehicle for certain higher forces than itself. E.g., see post #1393:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=766198&highlight=archetypes#post766198

Our ego, which is every moment implicitly boasting of freedom, is in fact at every moment the slave, the toy and puppet of countless beings, powers, forces, influences in this vast multiverse.

And if we didn't have the ego to show us how unsatisfactory and unfulfilled the ordinary kind of mind, and heart, and will, are, I doubt we would as quickly appreciate the need to search with all our might for a higher kind of mind, and heart, somewhere deeper inside us. These higher kinds being no longer the agents of separation. And to appreciate the desirability of accessing and experiencing non-duality and integrating it into our lives even within the world of polarities that we live in.

TraineeHuman

21st March 2015, 12:22

very interesting. thank you. sneaky ego.

can we do pranayama to counter the negative influences of longer fasts on our bodies?
can we do some other practice to unify our different (mental, emotional etc.) bodies?

Pranayama, as best I understand, is basically the (Hatha Yoga) practice of waking up and unleashing the energy that's "normally" lying dormant in the physical body. As this energy gets physically released more and more fully, it links the individual more and more fully to higher planes, to progressively higher levels of consciousness. The ever more increasing levels of physical energy in the body in effect "tempt", or provide more and more energy for, higher-level bodies than just the physical to operate through the individual; and even bodiless expressions of (that individual's) formerly dormant consciousness.

Pranayama does, however, use one aid other than its physical exercises and postures. It also uses something mental --namely, a mantra. This is necessary to take one beyond the physical. Also, mantras utilize sound, even if that's something one does silently, and just repeatedly imagines the sound. The interesting thing about light and sound, though, is that they aren't just electromagnetic (and hence fifth-dimensional), but they also have higher "octaves" at many higher planes -- "Light" and "Sound", all the way to Source.

TraineeHuman

27th March 2015, 02:38

One necessary requirement for accessing at least the level that the Higher Mind, or soul, or Jivatman, or Big Mind, is on, is that you need to abandon any seeking for personal gain or thrills through such an experience. This is apparently one point where many Westerners hugely stumble these days, but it's an absolutely essential point. If you try to access (even the beginning of) the lowest of the formless regions through any kind of (egoic, or robotic or hypnotic technique, or drug-related, or technology-related) force at all, then you may accidentally get some kind of experience but it may well be a distorted and in many ways unwholesome one, and certainly it will usually be risky. And in the end, "Whoever tries to save his soul will lose it," unfortunately.

Paradoxically, it's only through you giving up any quest for gaining experience that it becomes possible for your HM (or even the Divine dormant within you) to use you. Period. And then perhaps the higher part will give you higher experiences freely as a kind of fringe benefit. And maybe ever so much bliss and inner peace, eventually. You have to put yourself into the hands of your HM, and to do it safely too. Meditation, by the way, is altogether a training in how to do this safely, how to let go of being what seems to be "you" in favor of a higher version of you that lies deeper within, but initially seems like it's "not-you". It's safe to make that jump during meditation (provided that meditation's being done correctly, e.g. not while you're intoxicated, nor starting from an ungrounded state).

So, you need to surrender to that particular "blank" tthat's within you and more deeply you. You need to have an attitude of letting it fully flow through you and use you for service to the whole. To letting it use you basically as it determines -- though you need to be alert to picking up the ball too. Any technique, other than going "blank" in the right sort of way, will be service to (egoic) self. And therefore just won't work here. I'm afraid it doesn't matter how hard you try or intend, or how often you practice, without such surrender.

The exercise in post #24: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=586384&viewfull=1#post586384 provides you with a very quick (and very safe) way to rise up beyond the physical, emotional, memory, and mental planes to the HM planes in twenty seconds or thirty seconds or so. I've found that pretty much every sane person of a "New Age" or "spiritual" bent seems quite able to do this. (But note my subsequent discussions around May 2013 with AwakeInADream, who initially was going into his head and therefore doing this exercise incorrectly, at first.) Notice that the exercise involves "going blank" and holding that state of "blankness", and looking for whatever higher "energy" comes down out of that "blankness" and takes on a mental and maybe also emotional form as it descends to you in the physical world.

Please notice also the warning I offered in a recent post: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=933397&viewfull=1#post933397
This was a warning regarding listening to any voices in the astral or mental other than your own. This also requires some further discussion of the question of how does one reconcile surrender with being more truly and fully (the Higher) you. I'll cover that in another post shortly.

Does anyone have any comments or issues about surrender or your experience of the exercise from post #24?

wegge

28th March 2015, 12:40

I think how to safe surrender (if that´s not a paradox) is a legit question

TraineeHuman

28th March 2015, 21:32

I think how to safe surrender (if that´s not a paradox) is a legit question

Yes indeed, wegge. I appreciate your point about "if it's a legit question" regarding the assumption that it's possible to surrender. What needs to be surrendered is a less authentic "you", that has to allow itself to get replaced by a truer "you". That more authentic "you" doesn't do any surrendering, but the only way it can manifest and take over your life is through that more false version of yourself surrendering to it.

From the point of view of that truer "you", it hasn't had to do any surrendering. Rather, it's establishing its sovereignty at last. Then, later, this better version of "you" will also need to surrender to a "you" that's truer still. The ground keeps getting cut right out from under your feet.

TraineeHuman

29th March 2015, 21:44

What does it mean to be continually and permanently, or almost continually and permanently, in touch with one's soul, one's HM, to experience it as present all the time? It may be useful to you if I describe some of the things this question has involved for me at various points in my life. This is so central to living a life that is truly spiritual.

In this thread I've already talked a little about bliss and about ways to achieve it. But in my experience nothing is more central and essential to the experience of the soul's presence than the experience of bliss. I guess I initially learnt some significant things about bliss when close to my sixteenth birthday I began to have experiences of the first three Divine worlds, and continued to have them at least now and then on weekends. This involved going to higher planes than those of the soul or Higher Mind, namely, the Divine or universal planes. While one is on such planes, one directly experiences that one literally is God, or Source. And even though one doesn't continue to experience that after one has left such planes, the experience is so much more vivid and real than any other, that one knows that one's essence or deeper nature must be Divine, even if most of the time for now it remains in a potential rather than an actualized state.

As time went on it became ever clearer to me why the Zen masters and others insisted that having those kinds of enlightenment experiences was just the very beginning step of the true spiritual journey. Intensive self-reflection and intensive detached self re-viewing was also needed, including the facing and "outing" of one's dark side.

Quite a few years later I became very interested in finding a way to remove unhappiness from my life, permanently. I had become convinced this must be possible. And although at that time I had mistakenly conceived this as requiring the escape from having to live in the physical world, I tried various spiritual or self-reflective practices as potential means of such escape. The practice which eventually worked the best was that of feeling the aliveness [see post #114] http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52121-OBEs-What-are-they-how-to-make-them-happen-and-where-does-the-Higher-Self-fit-in&p=606494&viewfull=1#post606494

After nine years of my continually practicing the feeling of the aliveness, one day I noticed I had somehow become incapable of feeling boredom any longer. It seems most people feel at least some boredom now and then during the day in relation to their work or to some chores that need doing. But now, no matter what I did I couldn't bring boredom into it even if I wanted to. It seemed amazing. Once this had permanently taken hold, I reflected on what had changed in me to perhaps bring this about. I observed that I had somehow learnt not to be boring inwardly. So, there was no longer any inner dialogue going on that created boredom, either for me or for others. That was over eighteen years ago.

Two years later I started to notice that I sometimes could go for whole days at a time without desire or expectations. (By which I mean that I still wanted essential needs, such as a nutritious meal when I was hungry. But beyond such basic things I felt strongly that I needed nothing further -- nothing that supposedly would "make me happy".) Rather quickly, this developed into a permanent detachment from desire and expectations. For about two years, I then experienced a life that seemed to be quite free of unhappiness, at least at a conscious level. Then that honeymoon ended, but I still found it left me able to kind of consciously bring bliss in to any situation quite quickly, however unpleasant that situation might be. After all, as I've said, desire is the very root of the ego. So, what better way to diminish the ego's hold than to take away its biggest gun? Also, letting go of all your desires and expectations, at least temporarily, brings you enormously expanded, gigantic freedom. Plus it gets rid of so much needless worrying. And it gives you a "neutrality" where you don't care about what solution you prefer to some problem: now, you can clearly look at all your options impartially, and even see some out of left field. So liberating, and so good for getting insight into the best thing to do in a given situation.

Bliss now became something that was continually there, or else I'd notice it wasn't present so I'd consciously bring it in. Bliss became normal to me, part of the furniture. Many people didn't understand this, because many notice after a while that something about me is different. Sometimes they put it down to my supposedly having an optimistic nature, or to my for some reason supposedly loving my work. This also has something to do with also being masterful at total acceptance, or totally allowing everything to be exactly as it is. One still feels pain or stress, but usually the bliss is much stronger than the pain or stress. As I've said in a previous post, now you don't usually need to wince at pain.

I suspect not everyone goes through the same stages in the same order as I did. But another breakthrough, that I experienced about nine years ago, was that in half an hour I energetically and utterly in every way cancelled out all, or nearly all, of the judgments on myself that I had put there at the time of my birth. Everyone places such judgments on themselves at their birth. Normally those self-judgments get formed, or re-formed, directly as a result of the life review the individual did usually on the next day after their death from their most recent previous lifetime. It's very, very important to reach the point where you can dissolve or get rid of your prime self-judgments. Otherwise you may well be making them again at the end of your current life. Also, everyone needs to become very good at liking themselves, in a genuine and sensible way, and in forgiving themselves, but without denying their responsibility.

These are only some of the things that life with the permanent presence of the soul, the HM, has involved. I wanted to describe them to give readers some picture that the presence of the soul doesn't just mean having a wise consciousness one can communicate with or be filled with love by.

Daisy27

30th March 2015, 01:13

TH...new here lots of reading to catch up with the thread. Just beginning to connect with my HS and have been attempting OB following early morning deep meditations, just for a week or so. Looking forward to getting out and about in the higher demensions. Eager to see the other side, prepare for the next experience!

TraineeHuman

30th March 2015, 01:58

Hi, Daisy, and may I warmly welcome you to the Forum. My understanding is that when a person is meditating properly/deeply they're already in some higher dimension but it would often take considerable experience and certain skills or special help (i.e. from positive OB beings) before the person could be clearly and precisely aware of where they really are at such a time. But I don't myself see that as so important. The main thing, as I see it, is learning to identify and surrender to that which is (benevolently) higher within you. More and more. The inner journey, and discovering that the entire universe, and all Truth, is inside you if you go through that "gate" fully enough.

It's such a long, long journey for everyone to clear away the "fog" that comes from their own baggage and stops them from "seeing" the higher planes clearly. Not that the "scenery" is really important, because for me, at least, it's more mostly about "feeling" (but as distinct from emotions) and about understanding in new ways. Also, it's easy to read a paragraph in seconds that may summarize the results of over half a lifetime of progress. It's something else to then go through maybe half a lifetime of working on your own development before you get there yourself. Patience is necessary at certain stages and various times. Not to mention persistence.

Daisy27

31st March 2015, 00:21

TH. Thank you for your dedication to this thread. As I read, I learn so very much. Your spiritual journey has been vast and I love that you are eager and willing to share all that you know with Avalonians. Trying the early exercises. When I looked down at my feet I was a soldier in heavy boots. I am kind of faking it till I make it. During meditation I am visiting with my children, grandchildren and friends. There has been some positive feedback...seeing a friend in a blue dress. I have been searching in a fashion since the seventies...TM, Silva Mind Control, reading, reading. Your search makes me look like a slacker! I must say that now in my seventies, I love my life. It has been quite a ride and I am experiencing some detachment. I trust that my HS will help me. She always has. When I pay attention and set my intention the way is clear.

Reinhard

31st March 2015, 15:56

Hi TH,
on my regular visits to your deep and wonderful thread, I came across this quote:
""Here's a secret about Alzheimers. I happen to know that everyone who has Alzheimers eventually becomes an expert astral traveler, not to mention a daily visitor to greatly expanded realms of consciousness.""
I had a similar thought, ever since my mother immersed into this state of mind. Just one thought among many assumptions I had, trying to grasp what was happening. You seem to 'know'. Could you explain in a little more detail what you mean with: "I happen to know". A description of personal experiences would help me immensely.

Bliss to you, my friend.
Reinhard

TraineeHuman

2nd April 2015, 00:27

I'm familiar with Alzheimers because my mother had it, and also because I later spent six months working with and observing people with Alzheimers as part of my social work degree. (When my mother initially got it, I hadn't heard of Alzheimers, and I was living in another city and the internet hadn't started yet, so it was about five years before I knew what she had.)

Firstly, a very well-known puzzle in the social work literature is why so very few individuals commit suicide in the early stages of the disease, shortly after they realize they've got it and what that implies. Most professionals acknowledge that they can find no satisfactory answer, at all. But consider that even in the early stages the individual experiences extensive "disorientation", and that studies of what that disorientation is specifically like reveal that the individual believes they're mostly in some other kind of world. In fact, that other kind of world turns out to be exactly like some level of the astral. The orthodox view is that this is just delusion on the patient's part. But my own experience, both with my mother and with the others I've observed, has been that they don't seem to lose their strength of consciousness, but rather they transfer it more and more into life in some OB world(s). Clairvoyants more psychic than myself also confirm that this is the case. After death there's no need to give former Alzheimers patients any special help to get their consciousness back, because at death they have full normal consciousness.

If you observe Alzheimers patients at a hostel for older people, who are at an early stage of Alzheimers, you can hardly fail to notice how happy and content most of them look while they're doing nothing, or virtually nothing. Although they'll probably be receiving daily doses of tranquilizer and anti-depresssant drugs, that doesn't fully explain why such people clearly seemed, to me, to have a contentment coming from somewhere else. That contentment actually seemed to clearly transcend, and even counter, the zombie-like effects of such drugs. This is not to deny, though, that Alzheimers sufferers also usually go through periodic weeping and grief for what they have lost.

Also, in the six months before she died my mother would regularly visit me OB at night, seeking help to deal with her depression and fear regarding death. Although she was very clairvoyant, she very firmly believed that when you die, that's the end. But it was obvious that in the astral/mental at such times she fully possessed a normal level of consciousness, not a weakened or deluded or zombified consciousness at all.

I appreciate that at a physical level the lives of Alzheimers sufferers look more and more miserable, Reinhard. But that's not the full picture of what's going on. And I can assure you that the astral worlds, all being at a higher level than the physical, are much more joyful to experience than life in the physical world is. The Alzheimers patients are all having a great time while they're in the astral -- though maybe the physical seems all the more tough to deal with to them by contrast.

Ikarusion

2nd April 2015, 10:25

You absolutely have to learn how to watch your everyday self without any judging. Like a scientist looking at the results of an experiment. Except, when you're watching your everyday self the results of that "experiment" are usually surprising. Very surprising. If you can laugh at yourself, at the junk your everyday self initially and for some time just keeps coming up with, on and on, that's great. That's being the observer -- of your everyday level.
i keep making myself laugh at these automatic responses i come up with at certain situations or when thinking about people and things. often i immediately recognize how silly and especially egoistic my responses are. as soon as i take on a different point of view the house of cards falls apart, which sometimes even gets me to laugh out loud.

i remain rather silent though to egoistic responses of other people. well, sometimes i try to make a comparison like "well, then i cant help about being like this and that either. its simply the way i am". alas, it appears rare in my memory that the other person actually notices how flawed our arguments are. but i keep trying to apply this gentle kind of guidance instead of saying things directly.

I wrote a question beneath it and because I'm not capable to translate it satisfyingly into english, I like to post it in my native language.

"Ich Schattenbaum, ich Schattentraum -
welch' Grund umschliesst die Wurzeln?"
"i shadowtree, i shadowtree, -
what reason encloses the roots?" - puh, that is kinda tough to get through the same way. please dont take offence at my attempt.

animovado

2nd April 2015, 13:53

I wrote a question beneath it and because I'm not capable to translate it satisfyingly into english, I like to post it in my native language.

"Ich Schattenbaum, ich Schattentraum -
welch' Grund umschliesst die Wurzeln?"
"i shadowtree, i shadowtree, -
what reason encloses the roots?" - puh, that is kinda tough to get through the same way. please dont take offence at my attempt.

Thank you for trying, Ikarusion.

I like to give myself a try.

"I'm a shadow tree, a shadowy dream -
in which ground my roots are based in?"

Joe Akulis

2nd April 2015, 19:43

This is not to deny, though, that Alzheimers sufferers also usually go through periodic weeping and grief for what they have lost.

Do you think this is coming from the consciousness of the physical body, knowing that the spirit is not often at home anymore?

While the spirit is disconnected, we're mostly left to interact with the consciousness of that physical body, aren't we?

Think it's possible for the spirit to give instructions to the body? :-) Sort of like, "Be good until I get back." I know some travelers have learned how to program the body like that, to do things while they are out.

TraineeHuman

3rd April 2015, 13:25

While the spirit is disconnected, we're mostly left to interact with the consciousness of that physical body, aren't we?

Think it's possible for the spirit to give instructions to the body? :-) Sort of like, "Be good until I get back." I know some travelers have learned how to program the body like that, to do things while they are out.

Certainly, as you imply, Joe, the individual with Alzheimers will come to be in greater contact and communication with their HM than they would ever most likely have been before the onset of the disease. And also certainly, the HM has too positive and too broad an outlook to linger in a state of grief for any significant time. It follows that yes, as you imply, the grief would belong to the body-consciousness and the ego, and not to the HM. But since the individual still possesses a body and that body has now become an exceptional burden, it would take a very exceptional individual not to be bothered very much, at times, by the grief or frustration at bearing such a physical handicap. On the other hand, the individual will also be "absent" from their body for ever longer periods as the disease progresses. And the HM is "God" in the body-consciousness's eyes, so yes, it could quite possibly "program" the body to behave in a certain way while the HM explores other planes.

The ancient Eastern tradition, and the Indian tradition to this day, has been that one draws away from the common or conventional existence and loosens one's ties to it. The traditional Eastern ideal is that one purchases wealth of spirit by an impoverishment of one's human activities, the inner freedom by an outer death. If he gains God, he loses life, or if he turns
his efforts outward to conquer life, he is in danger of losing God, so the theory goes. But this is of course an escape from life. On the other hand, the individual with Alzheimers finds themselves living in partial withdrawal from the physical world, and more and more so, not by choice but in spite of any wish they may have to the contrary.

This raises questions such as whether to truly go beyond a plane of existence we need to go through "death" to that plane. It also reminds us of the necessity to understand just what the call of the beyond means. Does it culminate in full-on impersonality, and if so, how do we get to such a point?

Joe Akulis

3rd April 2015, 14:04

[QUOTE=Joe Akulis;948880]
This raises questions such as whether to truly go beyond a plane of existence we need to go through "death" to that plane.

Yes, that is another interesting question that I've been pondering recently. Seems like it could be true for the first couple planes inward at least. The things I've read over the years give me the impression that most people, when this physical body dies, are reverting back to an "energy body" which separates and moves about at the speed of thought in the next inward realm of consciousness. A place which you have helped to shed a lot of light on with this thread.

I've wondered if there's a certain stage that is reached when we also shed that energy body, like a death from that astral plane or something like that. Not sure what we revert back to if that's what eventually happens. I'd be very curious to know how we "inhabit" that second plane, inward beyond the first one. Probably not very easy to conceptualize at this level.

It also raises the question about coming back. When we leave this physical body, many of us take some time to rest and recover, then examine and study, and then gear up for another return, to take on another physical incarnation. I've wondered if there could be a similar dynamic for the next layer inward. Like leaving your energy body, returning to the next layer inward, and then after a time coming back. Could be that this is when we return to our higher self and re-integrate and become aware of all the other experience we've gained. I bet that's like what the Michael channelings talked about with regard to a causal entity, or something like that. Then after that higher being has gained enough experience it eventually takes those 1000 lifetimes and goes through a kind of death at that level, and becomes aware of how it was really a part of another being that has lots of those balls of 1000-lifetime experiences to it.

:-)

Seriously rambling at this point. I'm probably trying to make a square peg from this layer of consciousness (the nature of physical incarnation) fit into a round hole in the next. But it sure is fun to think about. Gives me something to do while I continue to examine and work on myself.

Much love to all reading this thread.

Reinhard

3rd April 2015, 16:12

Thank your very much, TH, for your concise and deep answer. I learned a lot....again.
Reinhard

I'm familiar with Alzheimers because my mother had it, and also because I later spent six months working with and observing people with Alzheimers as part of my social work degree. (When my mother initially got it, I hadn't heard of Alzheimers, and I was living in another city and the internet hadn't started yet, so it was about five years before I knew what she had.)

Firstly, a very well-known puzzle in the social work literature is why so very few individuals commit suicide in the early stages of the disease, shortly after they realize they've got it and what that implies. Most professionals acknowledge that they can find no satisfactory answer, at all. But consider that even in the early stages the individual experiences extensive "disorientation", and that studies of what that disorientation is specifically like reveal that the individual believes they're mostly in some other kind of world. In fact, that other kind of world turns out to be exactly like some level of the astral. The orthodox view is that this is just delusion on the patient's part. But my own experience, both with my mother and with the others I've observed, has been that they don't seem to lose their strength of consciousness, but rather they transfer it more and more into life in some OB world(s). Clairvoyants more psychic than myself also confirm that this is the case. After death there's no need to give former Alzheimers patients any special help to get their consciousness back, because at death they have full normal consciousness.

If you observe Alzheimers patients at a hostel for older people, who are at an early stage of Alzheimers, you can hardly fail to notice how happy and content most of them look while they're doing nothing, or virtually nothing. Although they'll probably be receiving daily doses of tranquilizer and anti-depresssant drugs, that doesn't fully explain why such people clearly seemed, to me, to have a contentment coming from somewhere else. That contentment actually seemed to clearly transcend, and even counter, the zombie-like effects of such drugs. This is not to deny, though, that Alzheimers sufferers also usually go through periodic weeping and grief for what they have lost.

Also, in the six months before she died my mother would regularly visit me OB at night, seeking help to deal with her depression and fear regarding death. Although she was very clairvoyant, she very firmly believed that when you die, that's the end. But it was obvious that in the astral/mental at such times she fully possessed a normal level of consciousness, not a weakened or deluded or zombified consciousness at all.

I appreciate that at a physical level the lives of Alzheimers sufferers look more and more miserable, Reinhard. But that's not the full picture of what's going on. And I can assure you that the astral worlds, all being at a higher level than the physical, are much more joyful to experience than life in the physical world is. The Alzheimers patients are all having a great time while they're in the astral -- though maybe the physical seems all the more tough to deal with to them by contrast.

TraineeHuman

7th April 2015, 01:52

The things I've read over the years give me the impression that most people, when this physical body dies, are reverting back to an "energy body" which separates and moves about at the speed of thought in the next inward realm of consciousness. ...

I've wondered if there's a certain stage that is reached when we also shed that energy body, like a death from that astral plane or something like that. Not sure what we revert back to if that's what eventually happens. I'd be very curious to know how we "inhabit" that second plane, inward beyond the first one. Probably not very easy to conceptualize at this level.

It also raises the question about coming back. When we leave this physical body, many of us take some time to rest and recover, then examine and study, and then gear up for another return, to take on another physical incarnation. I've wondered if there could be a similar dynamic for the next layer inward. Like leaving your energy body, returning to the next layer inward, and then after a time coming back. Could be that this is when we return to our higher self and re-integrate and become aware of all the other experience we've gained. I bet that's like what the Michael channelings talked about with regard to a causal entity, or something like that. Then after that higher being has gained enough experience it eventually takes those 1000 lifetimes and goes through a kind of death at that level, and becomes aware of how it was really a part of another being that has lots of those balls of 1000-lifetime experiences to it.

Ideally, at the time of physical death we should totally let go of and cut loose both our astral/emotional/magnetic body and our mental/electric body, as I've mentioned before. Neither of these is our "soul". Neither, as well, is our "causal" or "etheric" or "upper mental" body our soul. Well, actually this is a small part of the soul/HM, namely, it's the form which the HM takes on in order to communicate better with the above lower parts of ourselves and with our body-consciousness and cells. But the soul as a whole is intrinsically formless, and if we don't part with our "causal body" then we cut ourselves off from access to the infinite side of our being. (If we manage to cut loose the "causal body", then certainly no other being, including a past personality of our own, is able to interfere with us or manipulate us in any way whatsoever, unless it's with our full and conscious consent.)

Some individuals -- probably under 10% -- don't allow their astral/emotional body to separate from them at any point after death, and these addicts to drama then get reincarnated quickly and miss out on much that's desirable in the between-lives state.

In practice, nearly everyone seems to retain some degree of attachment to the mental bodies (their own "personalities") from some of their more recent incarnations. I guess this is because they consider that this is a way of accessing some of the wisdom gained from their past lifetimes. This is unfortunate, and it's a failure to trust in their own HM's wisdom. A complicating issue here is that some major side of one's most recent lifetime will have been an attempt to resolve or set right some issue from a previous lifetime. Unfortunately, while we're alive in any physical lifetime most of us don't make it a practice to place our biggest problems in the "hands" of our HM for it to find a solution for us -- which we need to adopt and act on once it comes. Because of this, we then don't resolve that issue properly in this lifetime either, and in this way there'll often be a chain of maybe twenty lifetimes all because of a lack of surrender to one's HM.