The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs [Archive]

TraineeHuman

17th November 2012, 00:58

As I explained in my previous post, OBEs don’t necessarily require any higher kind of “body” – such as an astral (i.e., 4D) body for you to travel in (or dare I say be in?) The traditional methods for getting out of your 3D body into a 4D astral body are quite tough. I would fail more often than not when I initially tried to learn them. Jake’s free ebook, The Book of Jacob, is available on this Forum. I haven’t read all of it, but what I have read is accurate. Jake describes the traditional methods, i.e. for learning to travel in 4D in your astral (4D) body.

I guess I used to astral travel (in 4D and also in higher Ds) lots of times as a kid, but didn’t realise I was doing it. At 24 I started teaching meditation full-time for two plus years, and in retrospect I sometimes astral traveled at a higher level (i.e., without traveling in some kind of “body”) without realizing I was doing so. But throughout my life I’ve found that astral travel experiences happen spontaneously for a week or two after any meditation retreat or, say, an entire weekend spent meditating intensively. So that’s one short cut I know of: intensive meditation, all day long. Or for days.

The only difference at 26 was that a few months before I had met an elderly man who wanted to mentor me in spirituality. Unfortunately he died within weeks of my meeting him. Then one night I woke up a few miles above the earth’s surface. In the first minute of that dream turning lucid I was still yelling out “Help!” to him and I caught a glimpse of him for a split second. He then disappeared and left me to my own devices. After that, I seemed to astral travel in 4D most nights. Usually I wouldn’t wake up until I was already OB. But from that point on I could control where I went, including return into my 3D body.

Then at 28 I joined a “psychic circle” for about 12 months. This was run by a lady who was in her eighties and had a beard. When she had been younger she had been President of the New South Wales psychics’ association for many years (New South Wales being the most populous state in Australia, with about a third of Australia’s population), in recognition of her outstanding talent. Some believed she had now gone senile, but I suspect she hadn’t. Each week she would take the entire group astral traveling in 4D. So: based on my experience, the best shortcut may be to get a teacher who really can easily get a raw beginner astral traveling even on their first attempt. I do need to caution, though, that it seems to me that most so-called professional psychics out there aren’t the genuine article. There are probably many who claim to be able to take you astral traveling, but can’t really. If they can’t do it to your full satisfaction in the first lesson, I strongly suggest you go elsewhere. There are many people out there who can teach you by throwing you in at the deep end, so to speak – and don’t worry, you won’t drown. You should be able to feel it for yourself. It feels like you are floating or flying. To answer Caren’s question, the type of “flying” I was talking about in my previous post was flying in pure formlessness, or half in it, rather than in the 4D world, which is full of forms and in which you can see everything in the 3D world as well.

I’ll make another post within half a day. My apologies, but I work full-time and am also in the middle of moving house this weekend. I'll try to answer anybody's questions. But there's also Jake's free book.

Caren

17th November 2012, 02:15

Thank you TraineeHuman for this interesting post - very helpful as well. Most of my OOBE's have been spontaneous. I think (if I understand you correctly) I have flown in pure formlessness.
I don't actually know a whole lot about this subject as compared to Jake, Nancy and other members here but want to learn and am very grateful to those who share their own experiences and knowledge.

Shamz

17th November 2012, 06:24

Hello,

Thanks for starting this thread... as most of you know...but for the members who are not aware...recently there are 2 threads about the OBE--one of them is closed and other one is still active...and will remain active as I know...

the latest one is by by SirDipSwitch and its called " Secrets of Soul" , name based on william buhlman's 2 books... here is the link

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51152-The-Secret-Of-The-Soul

Before that.. "Another Bob" started a thread called " Adventures Beyond the Body" , it is closed now but it contained within it an valuable information for anyone attempting OBE, here is the link for that:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47841-Adventures-Beyond-the-Body

I highly recommend reading these threads...and reading others experiences going Astral...

any more information regarding the subject in this thread is only going to benefit the readers like you and me.... so Thanks again for starting this.

Much love to you all

~Shami

Libico

17th November 2012, 07:00

Absolutely love your posts TraineeHuman - they are full of incredible information. Thank you so much for sharing and very much looking forward to your future insights.

TraineeHuman

17th November 2012, 21:12

Great question Caren...one I'd like to know as well. I have recently been in dreams, dreams I don't like and force myself to fly...others I just fly. So then what's the next stage?

There are many stages and many worlds. I'll discuss different dimensions briefly in later posts. What's the point, though, of knowing what comes next unless you've got to that next stage? My apologies, but I'm saying that because if you're flying with effort or not finding it a joyful or cool experience to be flying, then I"d say you would have to be in the 4D world, and probably in the lower 4D world.

I will give you one morsel now, though. As far as I can tell, one of the later stages happens when you feel like there is a tunnel of empty space -- a hole in your head -- from your third eye going forward, at least half the time whenever you meditate. Based on my experience, this occurs when you are disconnecting from the "great wheel" of having to reincarnate in the 3D world. It's a very long, gradual process.

What's occurring there could be dramatically described as "losing your (sense of) individuality". In this Forum, Another Bob has made a huge number of interesting posts relating to this subject. So you might like to read some of them, even though some are very long. Actually, I would see it more as losing more and more of your false feelings/beliefs about who/what you are. That's the only thing you're losing. It's a transition into seeing your body and brain as being nothing more than vessels for the universal consciousness/mind.

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Thank you TraineeHuman for this interesting post - very helpful as well. Most of my OOBE's have been spontaneous. I think (if I understand you correctly) I have flown in pure formlessness.
I don't actually know a whole lot about this subject but want to learn and am very grateful to those who share their own experiences and knowledge.

Yes, folks. Please do read the other threads regarding OBEs.

Let’s consider Caren’s question, about whether she’s flying through formlessness. The sensation of flying occurs in astral travel at many different levels – i.e. in many different dimensions, even in the fourth. If a person experiences a strong flying sensation and they don’t see any scenery, there may be many reasons why they can’t.

My experience is that the formless dimensions and beyond are places where I always experience intense joy, and also a feeling of harmony and interconnectedness. It’s quite unmistakeable. Now that’s more like really being at home, where you feel safe from threats and everything is so much more positive.

Everything I write in posts is based on my own direct experience.(Fortunately I’ve had communication with a variety of ETs and I’ve visited the divine worlds and had interactions with some divine beings, and so on. If you haven’t had the full experience and you try to talk about any subject like this based on your intellectual understanding, I’m sorry to say I invariably find that whatever you write will be riddled with errors – which you won’t even be aware of. ) So, let’s look at some of my experience. When at age 28 I was going to the psychic development classes, the lady in charge always managed to somehow get even any new member to “take off” and fly in the fourth dimension, just by kind of lifting them somehow. She would lead where the class traveled to. Initially she would go to an area in 4D that had lots of (pictures of) green grass and trees and flowers. I usually didn’t see that area, even though I tried to and all the other class members could see it. In retrospect, I’m sure the reason I usually couldn’t see it was that I just found it too boring.

Once the group hadn’t had any new members for several months, that lady would take us to a place about midway in the fifth dimension. There I could see all the scenery and the people. It was a place where everybody wore a full-length white robe. I saw that there were more than a million people there. (I did a rough count.) Also, you could never look properly into anybody’s face – because to show you a face would be to show you an identity. It so happens that that practice seems to apply throughout the upper fifth and all higher dimensions. The (artificial) scenery wasn’t much at all, for my taste. It was very gently sloping hills all with perfectly manicured brightish green grass, and little else. OK, it was very peaceful, and everybody there was quite contented. I did visit that place on my own as well, and probed a little deeper. The inhabitants did have some quite noble projects to help the humans in the 3D world. They called themselves the Great White Brotherhood, but unfortunately that name has frequently been misused by misinformation peddlers in the 3D world.

“Am I flying through one of the formless dimensions?” In my next post I’d like us to take a look at some reasons why the answer may not necessarily always be a clearcut Yes or No.

TraineeHuman

18th November 2012, 03:11

Just for the record, my intuition strongly suggested to me that Caren did indeed go flying in formless dimensions. But in the previous post I was trying to emphasize that just because one experiences a flying sensation, that in itself only means the person can be anywhere from 4D to the highest of the formless Ds.

Next, in my observation at any given time roughly 90% of the population have their astral body or etheric body or 4D body (all the same thing) floating about 10 inches above their 3D body. In other words, the feet area of the 4D body is about 10 inches above the physical feet, and so on. So, most people are out of their body but don't know it -- at any given time. However, astral travel involves having more control of the astral body. This is one reason why grounding and earthing are so important. They bring the astral body back down to where it naturally should be. As a famous Zen master said: "When you walk, walk. When you stand, stand. But don't wobble."

This is also a reason why I believe that learning to keep oneself grounded during the day will help a person to astral travel more easily.

TraineeHuman

18th November 2012, 03:41

I've only just had the chance to read most of the posts in the "Secret of the Soul" thread. Yes, I agree it's a good idea to tell yourself to "Go to the Higher Self". That's roughly the same thing as I'm referring to in saying that going OB is based on fully letting go, or full detachment.

I do have a very different take, though, on the OB phenomenon than the traditional one. For that reason I'll continue with this thread, hopefully in a way that complements the other threads.

I do have a very easy exercise which I suspect may help Teradactyl. It's an exercise I learnt to do when I was 25. I suspect it helped later on. The exercise is called The Christos Experiment. It was developed by a very experienced psychologist in Canberra, Australia in the early 70s. It's very easy to do, and yet it takes the participant on an astral (4D) journey into one of their past lifetimes. (However, I believe Dolores Cannon is right when she says that not all the past lifetimes we remember are our own. Others are ones which we have "borrowed" the complete memory of before we got born this time around.)

I have conducted this exercise on at least 30 individuals. All but one of them -- to their amazement -- got at least a picture of what kind of clothes they wore or what kind of buildings were around in one of their past lives.

1. First, get the person (or group) to lie comfortably on their back and relax, and close their eyes. (Or give yourself the instructions.) The eyes stay shut throughout.
2. Get them to imagine that their hands and feet and neck are becoming soft and rubbery, like plasticine. Extend that to their full arms and legs.
3. Get them to start gently wiggling their now-plasticine arms and legs and neck a little. Then, to stretch them out, so that they imagine their arms and legs are stretching out to beyond their normal length. Well beyond, and with twists they normally can't do.
4. Tell them to imagine they are now standing in front of their front door. Get them to keep looking at it carefully in their mind's eye, until they (imagine they) have noticed several little faults or details that they had never noticed about their front door before.
5. Tell them to go up, to a point three metres above their home. Ask them to look around at their own and their neighbours' homes, and to note at least three significant features or objects there that they had never noticed before.
6. Tell them to now (imagine they are) gradually, very slowly, rising upwards, to a point about half a mile above their home, and to pause and take in the view.
7. Tell them to slowly keep rising until the air around them starts to get dark, then to keep going on further still, until it seems completely dark.
8. Tell them to slowly float down to the ground, and, eyes still closed, to immediately look at what sorts of shoes they are wearing. (You'll hear expressions of shock and disbelief at this point.) Eyes still closed, get them to note what kinds of buildings are around, and generally what sorts of things are going on around them in the scene they see in their mind.
9. Tell them to slowly open their eyes, at their own pace when they feel ready.

Folks, and Teradactyl, this exercise is sooo easy to do. But as you can read in Jake's posts in the "Secret of the Soul" thread, the traditional method for learning astral travel involves so much hard work, and hit and miss, and -- well, what seems like performance anxiety.

UPDATE: Please also take note of the contents of post #461!

ghostrider

18th November 2012, 04:10

absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. I think this is where the real power is, leaving your body at night and traveling anywhere you want and remembering the next day. You'll need total darkness, total quiet, and be very relaxed but , focused on your intent. From a place of pure love with no concern at all for the world around you, saying to yourself when my body goes to sleep, my mind will stay awake, saying this over and over. this is how I do it . very light sheet over you , no heavy covers, palms down, breathing deep but not unatural, wait for the buzzing sound and your heart will beat faster don't be afraid it's just your vibration excellerating. I don't have all the answers , each person is on their own journey, I just want to help, freedom is around the corner when one acheives OBE, in a way you make yourself dead and alive again. A body can't live without a spirit, but a spirit can live without a body.

Shamz

18th November 2012, 05:14

@TraineeHuman -- really good experiment and I will surely try this...

Other than this... I think the intent to go out of body is absolute necessary - like in any other work here... if you are only half hearted in trying to do that... you will only experience as much...
so every night or day... whenever you practice... believe-- actually not believe.. but know you can do it 100%... then you should be able to do...

There are many other external things which might help you go astral... but whats natural.. and whats really you... is absolute beautiful experience...
concentrate and know you can and you shall...

Much love

Shami
.

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Dear Ghostrider

Beautifully said... I can't agree more

Much love to you

Shami

absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. I think this is where the real power is, leaving your body at night and traveling anywhere you want and remembering the next day. You'll need total darkness, total quiet, and be very relaxed but , focused on your intent. From a place of pure love with no concern at all for the world around you, saying to yourself when my body goes to sleep, my mind will stay awake, saying this over and over. this is how I do it . very light sheet over you , no heavy covers, palms down, breathing deep but not unatural, wait for the buzzing sound and your heart will beat faster don't be afraid it's just your vibration excellerating. I don't have all the answers , each person is on their own journey, I just want to help, freedom is around the corner when one acheives OBE, in a way you make yourself dead and alive again. A body can't live without a spirit, but a spirit can live without a body.

TraineeHuman

18th November 2012, 07:56

I think the intent to go out of body is absolute necessary - like in any other work here... if you are only half hearted in trying to do that... you will only experience as much...
so every night or day... whenever you practice... believe-- actually not believe.. but know you can do it 100%... then you should be able to do...

There are many other external things which might help you go astral... but whats natural.. and whats really you... is absolute beautiful experience...
concentrate and know you can and you shall...

I guess this is a good point at which to describe the traditional method for astral travelling -- with apologies for no doubt repeating material most of which has already appeared elsewhere. Here goes:

Lie flat on your back, with your palms by your side and facing the ceiling (because that's the most relaxed position for your arms). Your body should be aligned with the north-south direction (it doesn't seem to matter if it's south-north or north-south).Relax deeply. Traditionally this is done by silently repeating a mantra to yourself over and over. Almost any mantra will do, but if you like you can use "Aumm".

Focus quite strongly on the OB phenomenon. But don't try to use your will to kind of force it, as Shamz has suggested. (Sorry, Shamz. But "knowing you can do it 100%" doesn't necessarily work, because maybe you won't quite master it on the first attempt. Also, force is a form of ego, and here we need to totally let go, which you can't do if you use any ego.) The trick is to relax very deeply but not fall asleep. It may take a few attempts before you learn how to not fall asleep!

What you are waiting for is a vibration in the air. I know I always seem to hear it, but if you don't hear it you'll certainly feel it. It's a kind of electric buzz that comes through the air. Don't be frightened. Actually, what it is is your 4D self -- or, if you like, the 4D part of your Higher Self; or, if you like, it's the incarnation into 4D of your HS. It will come toward you, and will recharge your physical body. Totally surrender to its vibration. This 4D part of your Higher Self is almost identical to you, the only exception being that it will have some of the negative things about you missing or toned down. (People who like to ponder multiple timelines could have a field day with this. Multiple "you"s, one a 3D version and one a 4D version but the same person? And you, in your body, are almost the same as that buzzing field? But ... on with the exercise.)

You should now see a bright orange ring. If you stay surrendered and relaxed, you'll notice yourself floating through it. Then you'll probably see a pale blue ring, and similarly you'll go through it.

Once you're through there, welcome to the 4D world, friend. It's a world with no gravity. Also, whatever or wherever or whoever you put your attention on, there you will fly in the twinkling of an eye.

gdelisle

18th November 2012, 16:12

Wow, sorry to barge in here, I am more of a reader, and I don't post much, but I remember a few months ago having an unintentional OBE and I can remember seeing my body lying in my bed. Naturally, it scared the wits out of me and I was instantly back inside my body, but couldn't move. Every now and then, I get back into the sleep paralysis state again, but I have trouble moving on, I am not sure why. If any of you guys could help me, I would really appreciate it, just the thought of it exhilarates me!

TraineeHuman

18th November 2012, 20:17

I don't post much, but I remember a few months ago having an unintentional OBE and I can remember seeing my body lying in my bed. Naturally, it scared the wits out of me and I was instantly back inside my body, but couldn't move. Every now and then, I get back into the sleep paralysis state again, but I have trouble moving on, I am not sure why. If any of you guys could help me, I would really appreciate it, just the thought of it exhilarates me!

The body paralysis happens when you try to rush back into your 3D body so fast that your mind and consciousness haven't had time to switch gears back from 4D to 3D, so to speak. It's absolutely nothing to fear. It's something quite natural. Just bear it, and it goes away after a minute or two. It only happens to beginners, and only sometimes. You are perfectly safe, and are not being psychically attacked when it happens.

However, as I mentioned in a previous thread, you should always psychically protect yourself before venturing into new territory -- or even anywhere you go in the 3D world. I set up some elaborate protection every night before I go to sleep anyway. I set up protective energy around each cell of my body not just in 3D bit in higher Ds. But really, if in your head you just call on your guardian angels to be with you and protect you throughout the night, they'll do it with a vengeance, even if you can't see them or hear them or whatever.

TraineeHuman

18th November 2012, 21:29

I’d now like to make several posts that begin to look at different dimensions (in response to a request from Teradactyl several days ago), and how that relates to OB, and also to the Higher Self. Also to explain more about why, based on my own experience, it seems to make sense to consider OBEs, meditation, clairvoyance, dreams, and various other phenomena as being simply variations of something that is ultimately the one same thing.

When a person dies, they initially go into the fourth dimension. At the time of death “the lights go out”, in the sense that their sight and hearing stops working. Most people seem to then switch their vision (and hearing) back on very quickly, within minutes, but it is now 360 degree vision and it’s the 4D variety of vision. Some people do report total darkness for a while – but they haven’t turned on the lights yet, so to speak.

I guess the attraction of astral travel in 4D is that it comes with that 4D sight turned on, plus a great mobility, i.e. the ability to fly to anywhere you like in a split second. And being able to do that before physical death.

I’d like to point out, though, that much of what we call “sensation” gets carried over from 3D into 4D when a person dies or astral travels. The sensation of heat or cold, of pressure, and so on. It so happens, therefore, that through sensation we already experience, or vaguely experience, quite a lot of what is going on in the 4D world.

In particular, we often experience “energy” rather than “mass” or “matter”. I’m certainly not the first person to suggest that wherever you have energy rather than matter you’re dealing with a 4D rather than a 3D phenomenon. Closely related to all this is the fact that your 4D body is an energy body. Disciplines such as acupuncture and kinesiology and therapeutic massage and parts of Chinese medicine all work primarily on the energy body. Similarly, physical forms of meditation such as qi gong and tai chi and hatha yoga are all about getting the energy of your energy body to flow through your 3D body more, and to harmonise more with it, and even heal it a little. Sexual energy, again, is primarily an energy, and therefore mostly belongs (or should belong, if rightly used) to the 4D world or higher.

Let me also mention here what happens when I meditate each day. I usually manage to keep moving to a higher and higher D, for however brief a moment. The way it works is, each dimension is more positive, more blissful and loving and deeply peaceful and less polarised, than the one below it. So, in a way I go to some higher Ds as a kind of tourist, which is kind of almost the same motivation why people initially want to go astral traveling. What I take away from my 15 minutes or so of intensive meditation each morning is the experience of some profound positivity, plus a reminder to myself that this is the realest reality, and it’s natural and even ordinary. People around me are then amazed and scratch their heads at why I seem to love the job I do so much (which I don't really -- I just love existence itself), and also why I genuinely smile a lot and I’m constantly “in a good mood”. This type of thing, to me, is the ultimate reason why everybody should learn how to OB travel and then to travel to higher Ds. It’s what we were meant to do. I have some memories of how 40,000 years ago and more, everybody used to do this. “Ordinary”, humdrum life was blissful then, for everybody. Heck, meditation hadn’t even been invented back then, because there was absolutely no need for it.

I’m finding it gratifying to hear how many members seem to have had at least one or two profound OB experiences somewhere along the line. The reason for this thread (with the other threads as well) is to hopefully help encourage you all to go further, and claim your birthright.

TraineeHuman

19th November 2012, 07:02

Before I say more about dimensions and the Higher Self, it’s probably appropriate to pause to mention a few things to do that make a person better prepared for successful OB travel.

The first one sounds like a great deal of hard work but believe me, it’s easier than it sounds. What I’m referring to is the practice of continual self-observation, i.e., no-stop watching yourself, throughout your waking hours. As I understand it the leading figures of many major spiritual traditions emphasized the importance of this practice. But because most members come from a country with a Christian culture, I’ll mention one of the parables of Jesus.

The parable I’m referring to is that of The Nightwatchman. The story is simply as follows. A nightwatchman (i.e. a security guard) is hired to protect the premises where a wedding reception will be occurring. He is hired to work from dawn until the time of the reception. Just after midnight he falls asleep at his post. But a few minutes later, the wedding party and the guests arrive. He is scolded for not being awake.

If you think about it, an eighteen hour shift would be enough to make anybody sleepy. The point the story is stressing is that one has to be awake and alert at all times. I won’t try to explain here why I know that “staying awake” in this story is a metaphor for what we all need to do if we really want to evolve spiritually. And that is, to watch ourselves every moment.

It’s not really a matter of being self-absorbed. Rather, everything we know about the universe is contained inside our consciousness. So, the thing we should be doing is just generally being alert, aware. I think Baden-Powell understood this parable.

If you make it your habit to be continually watching out to see whatever may be there, when you go astral traveling you’re likely to see the scenery more easily, because you’re coming to it with your “eyes’ wide open, so to speak.

Another tip is that if you are a beginner you shouldn’t eat for three hours beforehand. To the best of my knowledge it also helps to stay clear of the vices, especially drugs (including marijuana and cocaine), and to be vegetarian.

sdv

19th November 2012, 10:15

Here are some children's drawings and descriptions of OBEs: http://www.shaktitechnology.com/Visions.htm

This from an 8-year old girl:

When you're in your bed,
Pretend you're on a roller coaster.
And try to move, but don't really move.
Eventually, you'll start to get faster and faster.
And you'll actually feel like you're shaking.

At some point, you'll just pop out of your body.

Another way is to pretend you're the wind, but don't move at all. Then pretend you're a storm. Then, you're out of your body.

You know you're really out of your body if you can turn around and see yourself.

If you have a desk in your room, you'll actually see it.

You can feel it when you are waking up, and then you just go back into your body.

Try to think of a place, like a movie theater, and you'll just be there.
You can watch any movie.

Do not go with any person who is having an out of body, too. Because you can end up at their house when you don't want to.

How to go someplace when you're out of your body.

If you know someone, and you want to go see them, remember their face when you're out of your body, and you'll go to them. Or, if you want to go to a place, remember how the place looks, and you'll be there. Or if you want to go to a planet, just remember what it looks like.

If you want to go to "The Land of OZ", like in the movie, just remember it. You could even go to heaven. How you go to heaven, is to think of what you think it looks like. If you want to go to hell, just remember what you think it's like.

If you want to go to a black space, just think of it. Just think of a black space.

soleil

19th November 2012, 14:20

TraineeHuman

19th November 2012, 20:40

i wanted to tell you that on friday night, i felt the vibrations. i think i got nervous, or excited and it ended very fast, but i know what i felt. i'd recognize it again.

i have a few random questions...which relates to your most recent post here; does the physical body still get the rest it needs? does our consciousness need rest?

is there anything 'wrong' with doing OBE right at the bedtime (say 10pm), or better to start middle of the night(12am-5am) if waking in the night?

are OBE's possible in close sleeping scenarios? (next to fiance etc)?

how do you deal with nervousness of nonphysical beings in your space immediately after going astral? (i admit i am very nervous about this so i didnt attempt sat or sun night at all).

thanks!!

Hi again Teradactyl,

It’s perfectly normal to initially feel nervous or unsure when you first start experiencing the vibrations. Those vibrations seem so much like some other conscious being or some intelligent energy field that’s visiting – but not part of you at all. You just need to keep practicing so that you get used to the idea that that funny whirligig energy is you (or, if you like, a slightly better version of you) after all, and absolutely loves you and is 100% on your side.

If for some reason or other I haven’t had adequate sleep during the night, I lie down and stay fully relaxed and usually the vibrating whirligig comes and refreshes my body with energy in just a few minutes – like recharging a battery. If I manage to stay awake until it comes, I then don’t need any more rest, because that recharge seems to be the equivalent of what I would get from taking a nap for about two hours. Often I’ll let it do the recharge and then I won’t go off with it into 4D – but that’s because I prefer to go straight into higher dimensions than the fourth. Eventually (soon?) I’m sure you too can learn to travel in the higher Ds. Most people need to learn to handle 4D first. That’s a shame, because everything’s a lot smoother when you’re traveling in a higher D than 4.

And the vibrating always comes if you relax. The only reason we don’t always notice it is we’ve often fallen asleep just before.

Rest assured, there is no point whatever to your concerns about needing extra rest because you’re busy traveling around in 4D at night. First of all, if you’re awake when the vibrating comes you get an extra recharge of your physical body than what would happen otherwise. Secondly, absolutely everybody normally goes OB traveling for a total of at least several hours every night, except they do it with less consciousness. This is known as dreaming, or REM sleep.

And no, consciousness doesn’t need to rest. Never, from now till “the end of time”, and beyond time as well.

It doesn’t matter what time of night you go astral traveling. However, if you eat under 3 hours before bedtime you’ll have bumpy ride – you’ll go to some unpleasant 4D places -- whether you just dream the “normal” way or whether you astral travel.

As far as sleeping with a partner goes, it would certainly be a good idea to sleep on your own when you are starting out in astral travel. If your body’s in physical contact with somebody else’s, you may have to kind of carry their energies with you when you travel.

“How to deal with nervousness of nonphysical beings in your space immediately after going astral”? Hmm, once you go astral, what you get is whatever you’re putting your attention on. If you’re encountering nervous beings (or maybe your own nervous emotion-thought forms), that’s because you’re putting lots of attention on nervousness. One thing you can do is try to hug them, or send them some positive light or positive energy. They should then go pop! and disappear – unless you persist in generating more nervous energy. Maybe you should start small and at first only astral travel to the ceiling and back. I did say astral travel is very similar to meditation, and that in meditation you let go of everything. Surprisingly, what’s left isn’t nothing, but it’s your Higher Self. Let go of your fear. Or just kind of surrender to it and let it do its worst for once. If its going to kill you, let it kill you now. But it won’t, and then you'll be done with it.

soleil

19th November 2012, 20:46

i just briefly read your post but wanted to add something..
this is what happened as it happened...i was doing a relaxation technique, and was all calm and was very very tired. i said 'awareness now' and wanted full clarity as i fell asleep. i then didnt know what else to do, so i started doing my 'affirmations' and then decided to 'daydream' and so i was visualizing me playing 'skyrim' (ok no laughing) and i was the character, walking down a spiral staircase and there was a character where in the game, i must defeat, so i was using my mage flames (i want to add, i was completely awake, this was me just picturing things)...then i decided why picture flaming this character, lets fly away. and in my dreams i have a funky running jump fly move, and i decided to do a different fly move, and i floated like a balloon, (like people suggest) and i started floating away higher and higher above the spiral staircase...thats when i started feeling the vibrations, they started in my head/neck and upper back. i concentrated on the vibrations, but got too excited, and then pop, opened my eyes and it was over...

maybe next time.

[edit]

i did not 'see' nervous beings. i was saying that after this experience, i retroactively wondered why i was afraid of going astral. and i decided that i was nervous about nonphysical beings possibly being there...i didnt mean that i saw them there. or felt them there.
i hope this makes sense.

TraineeHuman

19th November 2012, 22:01

TraineeHuman

20th November 2012, 02:07

In this post I’d like us to look a little at goes on when we dream. As I understand it, the majority of everybody’s dreams usually occur – wait for it – in the upper fifth dimension, and in fact in the borderline region between the fifth and sixth dimensions. And we all travel there quite naturally every night, even if we don't do it lucidly.

It’s a well-documented fact that the time when a person is at the highest risk by far of having an accident while driving is when they go driving less than twenty minutes after waking up from a night’s sleep. Why? Because they don’t have full (3D) bodily coordination yet, and their brainwaves are still too slow to handle 3D realities like the split-second decisions a driver may need to make.

In other words: for the first twenty minutes after you wake up in the morning, you’re still going through the process of re-entering into the 3D world. As I understand it, this is why at the time of waking you can still remember parts of the last dream you were having before you woke up. If you want to explore what’s going on in your dreams, you need to keep a notebook by your bed and any time you wake up you need to record whatever you remember of your latest dream(s) before you do anything else. You need to do it straight away because your “normal” workaday, waking, clever but ignorant, sneaky, Western mind operates in 5D, and automatically pulls your awareness down from the 5D/6D borderline region as part of the process of getting you physically awake and ready for the day.

I’d like to suggest that anybody who wants to learn how to get out of their 3D body consciously might also learn from looking at how we get back into our 3D body on waking up. It seems to me that jotting down details of your dreams could be helpful because it helps you connect with and put attention on at least the trail of where you recently were in the upper fifth.

Also, most dreams are communications to you from your Higher Self – the upper 5D version of your Higher Self. What it communicates is always information about whatever it is that you most don’t want to face that week or that day. If you do at least begin to face it, that will always be very helpful to you and will also help you evolve your consciousness.

TraineeHuman

20th November 2012, 06:19

Here’s an exercise you can all do very easily. There’s absolutely no reason why anybody could feel fearful or nervous while doing this. And yet it gives you at least a few seconds, and maybe a few minutes, of experience of exactly what it is like to travel in upper 5D.

Think of an important question you’d like an answer to, if only you were psychic enough to access the answer. Or better, since you’re probably at the beginner stage at this, find a close friend who has such a question. What you are going to do is get an answer, or some accurate advice on the question, directly from upper 5D.

Firstly, make sure you are in a quiet space and that you are psychically protected. A simple request to your guardian angels to protect you and all your body cells and the space will do, if you like. Next, you need to get yourself grounded. If you don’t know how to do that quickly, sit down and put the end of your thumb over your belly button. The middle of your hand (which has a huge energy chakra) should be directly over your second chakra (your centre of gravity). Keep that hand there, and that will be enough to keep you grounded throughout what follows.

Next, once you are sitting quietly and peacefully with your eyes closed, in your head say the question, once. Now keep your mind still and free of all stray thoughts for at least 30 seconds, but hold the intention that an answer will come to you after 30 seconds. Thirty seconds is a longer time than you may think. But ignore anything that comes onto the blank screen of your mind before 30 seconds are up. Please be patient, or you won’t get an accurate answer.

Then, whatever you see on that screen of your mind will be an accurate answer. It will most likely be a symbol of some sort or a picture, or several of either. Note what you see in the initial half-second, because after that your thinking mind will start to alter it. Be willing to accept anything, however wild or out of left field or nonsensical it may seem to be.

Tell your friend what you initially saw. It will usually mean more to them than to you, and they will be able to interpret what it means for them. In my experience, some symbols have universal meanings, but they are few in number. Two of the most common universal ones are that of some kind of car or train or other vehicle. That is a symbol for the course of your present lifetime. Stairs going up are a symbol for advancement to a higher level (spiritually or emotionally).

If you see nothing but blackness, without thinking describe what that particular blackness feels like to you. That will then be the answer.

Everything I have said above applies equally to interpreting dreams. Both occur primarily in symbols and/or pictures. When it’s pictures, these are highly allegorical – like a parable, say.

I have very good reasons to believe that doing these exercises will improve your ability to OB travel in 4D more successfully. So, no excuses please. Get to work!

Libico

20th November 2012, 07:06

Slightly off topic and then I'll get back on topic - I have close family who is apparently a spiritual healer/medium of some sort who I've been to see twice over the past 3 weeks. She was able to connect with some higher powers - she got in touch with my guardian angels, then the entity known as the 72 names of God (who from what she explained and I understood are 72 very pure souls that have merged to form a powerful entity), then connecting to the Source itself. She asked them to help me in whatevr they could and they have "opened doors" for me on a higher plane - she wasn't able to understand what exactly they did, but she requested to see it herself and she was amazed. To get back on topic, ever since then I've been having a higher amount of lucid dreams, and experiences. I had one experience which I believe to be an OBE that I plan on posting to the Astral group, but I haven't finished writing it yet.

So last night I went to bed around 00:20 wanting to try some of the techniques brought up in this thread. Despite the late hour I was lying down with my eyes closed and completely awake - not groggy, not on my way to falling asleep, but as awake/conscious as I am sitting here writing this, and I remained so throughout the entire experience. I started repeating to myself how I want to have an OBE, but instead of repeating the same line as Buhlman recommends (which has shown results for me in the past), I started changing it. "I want to astral travel now. I want to meet my higher self. I want to go out of body". It was almost like having a conversation in my head with one central theme. With my eyes closed I felt like the "sight" suddenly became very black/dark - to better describe this it's like closing your eyes in a room of light and suddenly turning off the light. I'm not sure if that has any significance but I continued. I soon felt the shivers come on, which led to some light vibrations which would dissipate only to re-surge shortly after... I was trying to remain as relaxed as possible and allow the vibrations to take over but it was difficult to keep concentrated (there was a lot of noise from outside at that point, and my wife was breathing heavily next to me). At one point I heard very faint music from in my head - a set of tones spaced a little less than 1 second apart that sounded like a lower octave on a harp. I focused on that and it became a bit louder and I was absolutely amazed at how beautiful it sounded.. I wanted it to continue forever it was so wonderful.

Shortly after I felt vibrations coming on again and I felt the urge to try and "pull myself" out of my body by extending my astral arms (a technique suggested by Jake in the Astral Projection group). Knowing that I was fully awake/conscious I raised my physical arms up and felt the vibrations start to come on strongly all of sudden. I tried to visualize using my ceiling light to pull myself out but wasn't able to. The stronger vibrations stopped not long after and I eventually sat up feeling elated.

There is very interesting occurrence that happened throughout this entire experience that I would love to hear some insight on. I sleep on the left side of the bed, my wife the right. Throughout this experience she was breathing very heavily (I hesitate to write snoring in case she ever reads this) and while lying on my back with my eyes closed, shortly after I felt my vision go "black/dark" I started to hear her breathing as if it were coming from the direction of my feet! It was so completely bizarre that I find myself coming back to this again and again. I felt like I was fully awake/aware and should be hearing her strongly in my right ear, but I heard it equally in both ears. I didn't want to open my eyes and sit up at that point to test this, but later when I decided to stop for the night I was lying down and heard things normally again in my right ear.

This whole journey is so incredibly fascinating!!

TraineeHuman

20th November 2012, 07:34

So last night ... at one point I heard very faint music from in my head - a set of tones spaced a little less than 1 second apart that sounded like a lower octave on a harp. I focused on that and it became a bit louder and I was absolutely amazed at how beautiful it sounded.. I wanted it to continue forever it was so wonderful.

Shortly after I felt vibrations coming on again and I felt the urge to try and "pull myself" out of my body by extending my astral arms (a technique suggested by Jake in the Astral Projection group). Knowing that I was fully awake/conscious I raised my physical arms up and felt the vibrations start to come on strongly all of sudden. I tried to visualize using my ceiling light to pull myself out but wasn't able to. The stronger vibrations stopped not long after and I eventually sat up feeling elated.

There is very interesting occurrence that happened throughout this entire experience that I would love to hear some insight on. I sleep on the left side of the bed, my wife the right. Throughout this experience she was breathing very heavily (I hesitate to write snoring in case she ever reads this) and while lying on my back with my eyes closed, shortly after I felt my vision go "black/dark" I started to hear her breathing as if it were coming from the direction of my feet! It was so completely bizarre that I find myself coming back to this again and again. I felt like I was fully awake/aware and should be hearing her strongly in my right ear, but I heard it equally in both ears. I didn't want to open my eyes and sit up at that point to test this, but later when I decided to stop for the night I was lying down and heard things normally again in my right ear.

This whole journey is so incredibly fascinating!!

Thank you very much for sharing all those details, Libico.
I believe I've heard that incredibly beautiful music too. I believe it's what they call "the music of the spheres", meaning the planets. To the best of my understanding, though, it comes from a higher place than the 4D world. And it really is mindblowingly beautiful music, and in my experience sounds like a number of beautiful melodies all being played at once, yet not clashing at all.

When I was first learning astral travel I did manage to pull myself out of the body successfully. But what I found was that with experience I learned to do it smoothly. As far as I can tell, a smoother approach probably would have worked better even at the beginning. But I may be wrong.

I'm not surprised about your hearing your wife's breathing at your feet. In my experience, if you have your head pointing in the wrong way (i.e. more towards the equator than to the planetary pole of the hemisphere you live in), your astral body will always swivel around 180 degrees once it lifts off from your 3D body. That happened to me often. (I say "happened" because I rarely travel in 4D any more. Much more interesting to travel in higher Ds without a 4D body and indeed without any body. Still, it seems to be necessary for most people to learn 4D travel first.)

Libico

20th November 2012, 08:17

Thank you very much for sharing all those details, Libico.
I believe I've heard that incredibly beautiful music too. I believe it's what they call "the music of the spheres", meaning the planets. To the best of my understanding, though, it comes from a higher place than the 4D world. And it really is mindblowingly beautiful music, and in my experience sounds like a number of beautiful melodies all being played at once, yet not clashing at all.

When I was first learning astral travel I did manage to pull myself out of the body successfully. But what I found was that with experience I learned to do it smoothly. As far as I can tell, a smoother approach probably would have worked better even at the beginning. But I may be wrong.

I'm not surprised about your hearing your wife's breathing at your feet. In my experience, if you have your head pointing in the wrong way (i.e. more towards the equator than to the planetary pole of the hemisphere you live in), your astral body will always swivel around 180 degrees once it lifts off from your 3D body. That happened to me often. (I say "happened" because I rarely travel in 4D any more. Much more interesting to travel in higher Ds without a 4D body and indeed without any body. Still, it seems to be necessary for most people to learn 4D travel first.)

Thanks for your reply TraineeHuman.

The music really was unlike anything I've ever experienced. As I focused on it and it became louder each note seemed to vibrate in my head in a very soothing and relaxing way, and elated to me to a feeling of joy, happiness and love.. I really can't describe the feeling in words.

When I do have these experiences I try different techniques all the time to try and remove myself from my physical body - my previous experience which I believe to be an OBE was with the rolling out technique, so I'm confident that I will find what works for me with enough practice

Very interesting about the astral body swiveling! I immediately thought of what you wrote in an earlier post about recommending that we lie down with our body aligned with N/S. I'm fairly certain I was aligned more NE/SW but will check that when I get home.

Smoke Me A Kipper

20th November 2012, 12:51

Loving these threads about OBE's. Hopefully one day I'll summon the courage to try myself. Keep up the good work its most appreciated.

soleil

20th November 2012, 15:43

Teradactyl, that makes perfect sense. My apologies for misreading you. Towards the end you say you were daydreaming and also felt like you were floating upwards as if you were light like a balloon. If I experienced something that matched that description, I'd say I was almost certainly travelling in the fifth dimension, having bypassed the fourth dimension. That's provided the daydream was like a movie that was running without a break. And provided I had let go sufficiently to be in the daydream boots and all. As I pointed out in post #10, it's also possible for a person's consciousness to be split between, say 5D and 3D, or between 4D and 3D. The mind/consciousness is incredibly subtle and good at doing the seemingly impossible. But what we want is sufficient letting-go to focus on one dimension at a time.

When you felt the vibrations at the end, it sounds like you probably were thinking "I've got to find the vibrations, or else I won't be OB". But actually, it sounds like you were quite possibly OB already, then came back to 3D to find those vibrations.

Obviously it will help you if you work on any fear or nervousness -- or maybe at not being so physically tired at the end of the day that it's hard to stay awake? --, because that's going to affect how fully you can let go. Again, I can recommend Inelia's exercise.

Hi Traineehuman, i had typed this up to a friend this morning, and realized i should share my concerns here. For those who wonder the same thing.....

I think it is something that keeps coming back to me...What does or How (i should say) does the transition from laying down to being vertical or 'sitting up' in 4D feel like when the time comes after vibrations? How do i know i waited the right amount of time until i attempt to exit?

How does the 'travel' feel like when going to HS? Do you get dizzy? Can you close your 'eyes'? Would you want to?

I think these are the small minute things that are keeping OBE at bay. I want to break through my discomfort and just do it, but what am i afraid of? Noo clue.

thanks guys!

TraineeHuman

21st November 2012, 00:09

Teradactyl, you’re asking a lot of details, and I’ll do my best to respond to those further below. Mainly I can only draw on my own experiences, and it was nearly four decades ago that I learnt to do it. Well, I did it as a child too, but that kind of doesn’t count. Trouble is, I seem to have mostly either been taught by being flung fully into a lucid OB state and held in it by masters of OB travel, or else by (working over an hour every day on) developing healing skills into higher dimensions, and also by developing energy flow skills as a form of psychotherapy which often crossed over into past lifetimes and hence kind of crossed the 3D / 4D border. I was doing all three at the same time when I learnt astral travel (apart from in childhood). In addition, the god Pan came into my life at that time and was trying to help me release myself from my inhibitions regarding psychic skills and psychic phenomena. (And then Gaia/Kali came too.) Those inhibitions came from my parents. From a young age I had been conditioned into denying or inhibiting my psychic abilities, and that the worst thing I could ever do with my life – according to my parents -- was work with them professionally. Also, through doing massive amounts of advanced meditation from childhood on. I did it my way.

So, I don’t really know all the details about how I learnt how to slowly jump out of my physical body. It’s bit like asking somebody who’s been driving a car for a few decades how they learnt to drive smoothly. A lot of it is practice practice practice. Doing rather than worrying. And you can’t get hurt if you psychically protect yourself. I did get hurt, by the way, by scary monsters, etc. But once I learnt psychic protection, I’ve been totally unscathed ever since. (Actually, they can’t handle Gaia at all, either, not one of them. They run in the opposite direction, even the greatest of them.)

I do feel, though, that the gigantic amount of meditation I had done helped. The physical world is such a tiny part of the multiverse, and nearly everything else in the multiverse is higher dimensional, and I have no doubt it's infinite-dimensional. So, people like yourself need to get yourselves used to handling a much bigger reality no less, a much bigger world to live in. That takes time, and work, so that you can adjust to the whole idea. Your attitude seems to be great overall, so don’t give up. These things take time. Like, you don’t learn to play musical instrument properly in a day, or maybe even a year. Also, as you learn the skill of OB travel you'll automatically drop lots of your personal baggage. But you have to learn to let everything be as it is right now. Be patient and know it's all OK.

Now, for the details you ask about. I’ve never worried about whether my 4D body was sitting up or lying down or whatever once I was OB. I just let it do what it did. After a while you get 360 degree vision in 4D, so what difference would it make? Anyway, it didn’t make any difference to me.

How does one know if they’ve waited “the right amount of time” before attempting to exit? All I know is that once the vibrations start and I kind of begin to boogy with them I normally see a big orange ring straight away, and as soon as I see it I let myself float through it, traveling horizontally in the feet-to-head direction. I’ve never had any difficulty going through that ring, although only about half the time does it and the blue ring seem to work in terms of getting me OB. Next, similarly, there’s a pale blue ring, and I just float smoothly through that, too. Then I’m up, up and away. Or not (maybe half the time). Other times I seem to just pop out into 4D without noticing the vibrations.

How does the travel feel like? Like you can fly, baby. A number of times every year I get visited by people who have died within the previous 24 hours. They just want somebody to know that they’re OK, and that the love and understanding was all that mattered. Usually they were close to somebody I slightly know, or to a friend of somebody I know. Usually they’re having a ball flying around, because in the 4D world they’re in a place where there’s no gravity. Flying feels like fun, regardless of which dimension you are in.

And no, don’t close your “eyes” there. There’s no need to.

Maybe others have other insights in response to your questions, T., based on their experiences. But maybe I should mention that success is a matter of perseverance. If you persevere, you’ll acquire talent even if you didn’t have it when you started. Never giving up, sticking to it – that’s the key to success in any field.

TraineeHuman

21st November 2012, 05:28

From PMs I have received and based on members’ posts in this thread, it’s clear that a major issue for many is that of fear. I happen to know, from my own experience and from that of others, that such fear is groundless provided you take any one of a number of simple steps to protect yourself. I have already suggested either creating psychic protection around yourself or simply calling on your guardian angels for help. I notice that in the The Secret Of The Soul thread, which I can also recommend, the suggestion is to simply stay with, or surrender to, your HS, and therefore to drop or stop listening to any fearful or nervous neurotic thoughts in your mind. I agree that works fine also, provided you really do fully let go, fully detach from your 3D body. Which you’re pretty much doing anyway if you’ve managed to get OB.

The 4D world is overall a more positive place than the 3D world. Yes, that’s even taking into account the lower astral world. And the 5D world is more positive again.

Next, a few more suggestions. Firstly, don’t worry about whether your levitating body seems to have merged with your sleeping body or not. In 4D you are subject to fewer laws, i.e. it’s a freer place. You are you anyway, and if you’ve gone back into your sleeping body you’ll know it because then you won’t go anywhere. But if you then just think of going out – no great effort needed, just the thought -- , that should move you out of your physical body again. At least, that's been my experience. Relax, take it easy. A freer world gives you more scope to be playful, to have fun, to go joyriding. This isn’t the army or something. You can think of it, though, maybe also as a chance to work on getting rid of fear in general.

Similarly, sometimes people sit up in their astral body just to reassure themselves that they’re now out of body. But it doesn’t matter if your astral body is sitting, standing, lying or whatever. Just enjoy the holiday trip.

If while travelling you feel insecure, you can e.g. just say “Protection!” and imagine there’s healing light all around you. Any time you venture out of your body your guardian angels won’t be very far away (though they’ll probably need to come down from 6D). But you can always just call on them for their protection straight away. They lick anything in the 4D world every day of the week, and they will definitely make sure you stay 100% safe if you simply ask. You may sometimes see them once you go out of body. They usually look like blindingly bright and very large lights, either mostly pure white or pure gold.

Incidentally, some people say that after you die you shouldn’t go into the big white light. Well, folks, as far as I’ve seen your 4D HS itself normally looks like a bright white light – or, in some cases, a bright golden light. If you’re in the process of having just died, your energetic links to the 3D world are being cut, so it’s impossible for you to do anything other than merge into your white light, because that is you in 4D. I guess it’s good to make sure it’s your own white light you’re surrendering to and not somebody else’s. Also, you’ll have at least two (personally assigned) guardian angels right by your side, and, as I said, most of the time they will normally look like blindingly strong white lights, or maybe golden lights. And they’ll get into communication with you, and do their best to reassure you.

TraineeHuman

21st November 2012, 08:12

It’s possible to stay focussed on the 3D world while you’re in 4D. However, the only people who do so are those known as “earthbound spirits”. These are people who die while being alcoholics or drug addicts, mostly. I’ve come across quite a few who stayed trapped in that state for decades after death before they were ready to be helped. They certainly don’t look for their HS, though of course they merge with it like it or not at the time of death.

Even their HS can’t shake off the attachment to and emotional dependence on a physical substance. There was one such drunk I heard of who used to frequent the biggest pub in Kings Cross, traditionally the major red light district in Sydney. Then he died, so he took delight in haunting the patrons and scaring the bejeebers out of them. Then he’d go next door, or across the road, where there were brothels. Dead people and beings in 4D learn to see both the 3D and the 4D world. And I mean they can see everything in the 3D world, pretty much. So, this fellow used to visit the brothels and vicariously watch and feel all the action going on there, then after a while he’d do a haunting and scare the patrons as a “bonus”. Somebody I knew was asked to exorcise him out of there, with the promise of a huge cash reward. But as far as he was concerned, he was in “heaven”, and had no interest in changing anything soon.

soleil

21st November 2012, 13:37

thanks trainee, i appreciate your posts, and thank you for sharing your experience examples with me. im as full of pre knowledge as i can be, so all i can do now is 'just do it'. :)

TraineeHuman

21st November 2012, 22:41

thanks trainee, i appreciate your posts, and thank you for sharing your experience examples with me. im as full of pre knowledge as i can be, so all i can do now is 'just do it'. :)

Exactly. And please also do the exercise described in post #24 a number of times, T., preferably also with a friend. And soon, if possible.

OB travel, like meditation or massage or driving a car or gardening or a thousand other things, is learnt by doing. You don't learn to drive through studying the manufacturer's manual or even through studying the road regulations. And they all yield a lot of pleasure and value once you start to master them.

Chester

21st November 2012, 23:43

Hi TraineeHuman – Thank You for the great thread. I am enjoying reading your experiences and you are an excellent writer.

Thank you for starting this thread TraineeHuman - I look forward to reading your next post.
I'm wondering - when we 'fly' in a lucid dream.. could that be an actual OOBE?

Hi Caren – I have had the same feeling that those vivid flying dreams are OBE or just one step away from real OBE. I am learning lots in reading this thread. There;s two folks here who have had lots of experience with astral travel, NancyV and Sebastien… maybe they will share some about it too.

Wow, sorry to barge in here, I am more of a reader, and I don't post much, but I remember a few months ago having an unintentional OBE and I can remember seeing my body lying in my bed. Naturally, it scared the wits out of me and I was instantly back inside my body, but couldn't move. Every now and then, I get back into the sleep paralysis state again, but I have trouble moving on, I am not sure why. If any of you guys could help me, I would really appreciate it, just the thought of it exhilarates me!

I had only one OBE but it had a huge impact on me as for me, nothing speaks like real experience. It was my single, short OBE that convinced me I am not just this body… in fact, my body is nothing more than the current “home” I sleep in during this stretch in what I hope to be an eternal experience.

Love to All - justoneman

TraineeHuman

22nd November 2012, 01:47

At this point I'll draw a line, at least for several weeks, on describing any more regarding the "how to" of astral travel in 4D -- though I want to say a few things shortly about travel in 5D and 6D.

One thing I will do is OB visit a number of you some time during the next three or four weeks -- unless you ask me not to. Since childhood I've been very good at performing remote healings of terminally ill people long-distance. And they usually "go into total remission" straight after. So, I intend to visit each of you who've reached out by posting here and indicated you're willing to try "doing it", and also Jake (again, unless he tells me he doesn't want me to). I haven't finished unpacking in my new home, so please be patient.

Unless something else comes up when I visit, I'll just do a remote healing on your fear -- maybe fear in general. I don't expect one healing session will get you beyond all fear in general, not at all.

Everybody should be continually putting themselves in situations that are right out of their comfort zone. You may feel really awkward, uncomfortable, lost, not "the real you".

But let's be clear. Fear is that which paralyses -- emotionally, spiritually, psychologically, intellectually. Maybe it's time to get unfrozen. Most people got paralysed many, many times in their childhood. That's why the great majority of people have simply blanked out nearly all memory of what really happened in their first four or five years. Don't be paralysed, inert. You are not stone, you are flesh -- and you are also, indeed, intelligent, infinite Light.

At 26 I had indeed by then managed to heal myself of most of the fear deep in my psyche -- the bulk of it, so I wasn't stuck. But you all need to do it too. I can't promise that initially you'll feel less suffering. In my experience you'll certainly feel more and more suffering -- maybe more than almost anybody else -- but also lots of bliss and joy. And pain that's faced vanishes quickly, never to come back provided it's faced fully. Eventually -- decades later -- it starts to get so much better and better. Lots of dessert with cherries on top with all your meals then -- figuratively speaking, of course. This is how we were all meant to live.

I'll visit the abovementioned individuals because it's much easier to heal somebody with whom you have corded a little. "Cords" of energy are almost colourless. So it can be hard to see them when you astral travel. After the healing I'll cut most of those cords. Must be heartless, mustn't I? (It doesn't mean that I won't allow fresh cords to develop later.)

There's a little more conceptual stuff I'd like to say in coming posts about what are dimensions. Probably later this week, if I find the time.

Meanwhile, that won't affect the reality that you all need to get practising, now. I understand Beethoven was unique not just in his willingness to use supposedly unworkable chord combinations and to break various other big musical taboos. But he also wrote way, way more drafts of his music than any other known composer before or since. Persistent hard, intelligent work unearths treasures.

As Wayne Dyer says, well over 90% (or was that well over 95%?) of the things you worry about turn out to never happen.

And let me add that in reality everybody is far stronger, and capable of far better, than how they perform. If you tell yourself: "I'm so ignorant/incapable," that takes all the answerability away from you. So convenient. I see it so often, in otherwise intelligent people. And so false, once you get underneath the self-delusion. Stop fooling yourself, please. Showing some real courage in your life feels and is just so cool. Kind of like flying OB.

Chester

22nd November 2012, 18:12

Hi TraineeHuman,

I hope you are able to visit me in OBE land, full permission granted. I appreciate that you would visit me and assist me with this type of experience and am grateful.

I have been earnestly working towards resolution of all my fears. I am happy to receive any help from you, specifically in this regard. I am ok if there is more suffering in this process for the goal is to surpass my fears such that I can be of better service to others and perhaps enhance my own experience as a bi-product.

My cord is fully extended and also happy for the day I would be on my own.

Ready, set, go.

Love to You, TraineeHuman, justoneman

Eram

22nd November 2012, 21:02

soleil

22nd November 2012, 21:49

hi trainee, i wont say no, but i hope by the time you do pop by i'll have already overcome my hindrance. i'm at the point of put up or shut up, so i'm gonna also go quiet while i work on this myself. of course if i have luck i'll come announce it :panda:

gdelisle

23rd November 2012, 03:53

Ok sounds great, that was about the best response I've seen so far, even across the entire internet! Anyway, I going to remember to call in my guardian Angels because watching videos and reading the other day, I read many references to very scary and dark creatures appearing that were unable to be expelled. Since I am a beginner, this scares the complete life outta me. If I remember correctly, they cannot harm me (I think) but is there any insight to what these "creatures" are or how to prevent them from appearing? Thanks!

gdelisle

23rd November 2012, 03:58

Wow, I also have to take the time to thank you for offering a visit. I too will grant you permission, and with great pleasure! Any help would be grab and it is not everyday you find somebody that would take the time to actually assist me in my own goals!!

Thanks again and love to all!

TraineeHuman

23rd November 2012, 06:03

I'll be happy to visit everybody who's requested it and do around twenbty minutes' healing or "fear processing" work on/with each of you. But it still depends mostly on you. All that a healer can ever do is find a way to facilitate the client's self-healing. In a way they can often influence the client to pick up the ball, but then it's up to the client to follow through and keep going.

I won't have time to make posts for four plus days, but I'll be back here after that.

soleil

26th November 2012, 17:03

[update] ive been falling asleep instead of staying awake...this is proving a bit difficult but i'm working through it.
as i've been previously known to hibernate.... ...lol :o so this may take some serious will power. :wizard:

gdelisle

27th November 2012, 18:00

Well I have yet not only to find time as I have been barraged with work to do, but my problem is trying to not get so excited when the vibrations come, maybe we can switch places ;)

TraineeHuman

28th November 2012, 02:16

There's a greatdreal of misunderstanding about how to obtain psychic protection. Let me hopefully dispel a little of the widespread misunderstanding.

The only way you can know whether your supposed protection works is to see if a reasonably experienced and skilled psychic person can break through it easily. That's how I know that the only thing that really works, except maybe help from guardian angels, etc, is as follows. You have to become conscious of all your body cells together, united together energetically, and then bring in a healing energy (or life energy) around yourself and your cells. I appreciate you may not be a psychic healer, but you can still do it.

The main thing is to feel the (psychic) energy around you and your cells. Also, to have the intention that this will protect you. Each body cell itself has a tiny amount of awareness and consciousness, extending into the 4th and 5th dimensions. But when they are combined energetically, that creates such an impenetrable thought-wall and energy-wall. Strangely, that protection works not only while you are in your body but also continues during OB travel in both 4D and 5D.

"Just trusting your HS" may not be effective for you. Let me explain. When you're travelling in 4D, your astral/etheric body is your 4D HS. It itself has HSs in 5D, 6D, and so on. Though from 6D on we are in formlessness, so the 6D HS doesn't really have an identity at all, nor a 6D "body".

The question is, are you able to hear or know the extremely good advice that your 6D HS is trying to tell you? Our dreams each night occur primarily at just below 6D, as I've mentioned earlier. The problem is, nearly all of us don't want to listen to the wonderful advice contained in them. That's why on waking up, within one minute we alter the memeory of what was in our last dream in such a way as to lose that precious advice.

A popular supposed method of psychic protection is to create a bubble of some kind of energy around you. Psychic people will be able to see it around you all day long. It may include healing energy or positive energy or whatever. It may have a reflective outer surface that -- supposedly! -- selectively filters out all negativity and returns it to Source, or to sender. I'm sorry to tell you that kind of "protection" doesn't really work. It just makes a "positive" victim out of you, but a victim nonetheless. It can be bypassed within seconds.

Libico

30th November 2012, 09:10

Thought I’d share a recent experience (last night):

Towards the end of a long string of dreams, suddenly I realized I was dreaming and became lucid. I thought at first OK what cool s tuff can I do now, then thought about going OBE. Immediately had strong vibrations, with sharp pains* (see below) on my right hip. I managed to “will” the pains away and thought about how to go OBE. I closed my eyes so all went black n the dream and tried to visualize my bedroom as Buhlman suggests to go there. No go, so I visualized my old bedroom in my parent’s house. I had a clear image in my mind now and “rolled” out of my body.

I’m standing in my old bedroom and everything is black and white and very hazy (similar to other experiences), but I am fully conscious. I look down at my bed and see myself sleeping there , but my physical body seems to fade in and out. It’s like watching a movie frame by frame and one frame my body is there, next it’s just a bed, with a frame switch every second or so. Was very strange, but I didn’t want to get stuck on that.

Initially I felt groggy and almost immediately shouted “I want to meet my higher self!” I felt a small rush of energy, but nothing really happened. I shouted “Clarity now!” and things got a bit clearer. Not as clear as I wanted, so I shouted much louder “CLARITY NOW!”. Nothing happened and I laughed out loud to myself that it was as clear as it was going to get and I shouldn’t go around screaming like a spoiled child.

I decided to try flying to see if this really was an OBE, and I floated up through the ceiling, through the attic, and through the roof. Everything was very very dark outside I floated about 15 meters above the roof before returning to the room. I was high enough to see city lights everywhere, but felt like I’d prefer to stay in my room for the time being.

Since calling out to my higher self didn’t work I asked my guardian angels to come and assist me. What followed was the highlight of this experience. I immediately began to hear music in my head, similar to the harp-like music I felt in another experience. I had a mental image in my head of three entities and they told me their names too (I can’t remember them now, but if I hear them it might trigger my memory. One started with an R and was the longest of the three names). The harp music continued and I sat down and closed my eyes absorbing it in. Soon I heard another melody join in and it was pure bliss. That continued for a little while with my eyes closed as I drifted away and shortly thereafter woke up.

I know the 4th dimension is very much open to being molded by our mind; is it possible that this was really an OBE even though I wasn’t in my parent’s house? I suppose it’s possible my mind created this space to be my comfort space as I grew up there, but in the physical world my body was half way around the world and I saw my physical body flickering in and out. Interestingly enough, this is my third potential OBE that have all had some sort of connection to that house, and all three experiences seemed a very different “reality” than my standard lucid dreams.

*Just something else I’d like to touch upon – the sharp pains I feel when dreaming have been recurring as early as I can remember. The pain is almost exclusive to my back (the exception being last night) and usually occurs during nightmares, or during sleep paralysis as I am waking up. I’m not sure if sleep paralysis is correct term to define this, but it happens where I am still heavily groggy/sleepy but am half awake – I’m not fully conscious but not asleep either, so it’s an in-between state where I am in my bed/on the couch.

Lately it’s been happening more often (past year or so); less so in dream states and more during sleep paralysis. To describe the pain would something like a sharp object poking my back strongly, not piercing the skin but pushing it in with the pressure. In my mind, it causes me to twitch/spasm with the pain, and eventually I wake myself up. There have been a few times where I’ve tried fighting it (in my mind making it into a foreign entity), and once challenging it and taunting it to “do its worst”, and to see how much of the pain I can stand. The only time I did this was roughly 6 months ago and the pain got to be very intense. I held out as long as I could (which to me felt much longer than I usually last before waking up) but eventually gave in and woke myself up. That time I woke up feeling slight physical pain for a minute or so after waking up.

My last two lucid dreams, last night and a few days before, I immediately felt attacked by this pain the moment my lucidity happened. The first time it immediately became sharp pains as I started to request to have an OBE, and it was bad enough to force myself to wake up. This time, it started and I managed to control the pain enough where it became quite bearable and feel transition into what I believe was an OBE.

I’m not scared over this as it is something I’ve been dealing with for some time – when I’ve asked about it I was always told that since this occurs during nightmares it is my body’s way of conditioning me to wake myself up when I need to which always sounded nice on paper but never really satisfied me. I’m not adamant that this is some sort of parasite or foreign entity that has attached itself to me, but I’m open to hear opinions on this as I’ve asked around about this several times and never heard of anything similar, although admittedly I can’t go into as much detail as I do here.

Has anyone heard or experienced something similar to the above? I’d love to get this to stop somehow – this latest time I instinctively dug in my proverbial feet and challenged it but instantly changed my approach to send it positive thoughts, and thoughts of love. It didn’t seem to have any effect. I’m very curious to get a better understanding if this is something internal or external.

TraineeHuman

1st December 2012, 04:54

Libico, your problem regarding the pain in your side seems to me to be undoubtedly connected to cording. The "hitchhiker" phenomenon that Bill R. has started a thread about is also real. But as you say, that doesn't seem to obviously fit your experience here. So, let me start by saying a little about what cords are, in my experience and in what I have observed regarding other people.

Cords are the 4D -- i.e., energetic -- manifestation of attachments. As we know, what most of us like to call "love" for a partner or family member is actually in part strong attachment, in nearly all cases -- as soon as you or they think of the other as "mine". Let's also remember the flipside of attachment: whoever or whatever you strongly hate or dislike or resist, you're also strongly attached -- and therefore corded -- to. Everybody acquires very strong cords from their family members (especially their parents), and then secondarily from their siblings, their serious romantic partners, and then also others, like their bosses.

A cord is a means of subconscious control that the other person is using. Because you're "theirs", they use the cord to try to force you to stay within the "box" that they know. How do they force you to do this? By (quite subconsciously) making you feel discomfort or pain that's strong enough to get you to pull your head in and "behave". The pain will be in the part(s) of your physical body where they energetically attached their cords. In the 4D body, these look sort of like electric wires, that are permanently connected and permanently switched to "on", 24/7.

Libico, it seems clear that you yourself have a strong cord to the place that is your childhood home. When a person goes OB, they are a little closer to their true heart. And obviously, in your heart that childhood home is what feels like true home. No matter that it's halfway around the planet.

Having very briefly tried to "read" you intuitively, what I get is that one of your parents was very possessive and therefore has some unusually strong cords into your 3D body. Some very possessive parents will also even cling to such cords up to decades after their death -- and that's a real nuisance for their unfortunate offspring, I can tell you! If you go OB travelling, then --shock! horror! -- you might get some distnace from that cording situation and you might see what is really going on. So, of course you're likely to feel some strong pain along that parental cord.

The subject of how to cut cords has been discussed in this Forum in the past. It's not easy to do fully. In my experience, you need to get lots of insight into your childhood relatiionship with that parent. If you kind of obsessively keep asking yourself "why" am I the way that I am as a result of crucial childhood incidents with that parent, eventually you'll get insights, both into what you've blocked from your own memory and into their interests and needs at that time, and also how to re-interpret what happened now that you have an adult understanding. It sure helps to be ruthless about not stopping asking yourself what is the real truth about your past. One onion layer after another.

Libico, the fact that the pain is so sharp, plus in your back -- the master-slave location, where you are the slave -- strongly suggests to me that that parent subconsciously so hates what you are doing. Are you supposed to be weak and dependent and to know your place, perhaps?

Incidentally, here's something else I came across when I was starting out at 4D travel. Suddenly I discovered that there's petty psychic warfare going on everywhere in 4D. This is because most of what is going on in a person's mind and heart is normally subconscious. It's subconscious because the person finds it too painful to face that that is what they're partly like. So, there's all sorts of negative and unfriendly and manipulative thinking and gameplaying going on all the time. But you soon rise above that level in 4D.

Libico

1st December 2012, 09:49

Very interesting post TraineeHuman and definitely a lot of food for though - thank you for your insights!

What you explain about cording, and what is likely my connection to one of my parents can definitely apply to my relationship with my father. He was a very domineering figure during my early years, which is essentially when this started to occur during my childhood nightmares. Nowadays age and experience have taken their toll on him and he is a much calmer and happier individual, but he was an extremely stressed person when I was growing up and prone to over-exaggerate his negative reactions as a way to blow off steam (if I did something wrong, or got bad grades at school he would get absolutely furious and was a scary guy to be around, even for my friends). Being a physically big and strong man, he in my opinion unknowingly used that to intimidate his children into doing what he thought was right... and me being the curious and rebellious kid I was definitely had me venturing outside the "box" of what he thinks his son should be doing He is and always was a good and kind person, but he has his own personal demons that cause him to lose control in certain situations based on issues from his own childhood (he has a lot of anger towards his mother and vice-versa).

I can definitely see him as being the more over-protective of my parents emotionally (and hence I would be heavily corded to him), simply because his emotional investment in all things in his life were extremely intense - he could stay angry at someone cutting him off hours later when I was younger, and would often mutter profanities to himself when he was in "high stress mode" (which was quite often). When it comes to his kids who he loved to death but had extreme difficulty expressing it physically and verbally, I can see this potentially being the situation here with what I've been experiencing.

I like to think that I have a lot of insight into my childhood and the reasons behind things that have happened, but maybe it's time to revisit some of those incidents. I have talked about it with my father (briefly, as he is embarrassed to talk about it at length), but it's something I've forgiven as I have a better understanding as an adult how his mind is hard-wired. It's possible and likely that maybe he hasn't forgiven himself - would that be a reason for the unusually strong cording still being present? Again, this is something I've learned to deal with for the most part but if dealing with this can give him some peace of mind than all the better.

Regarding my childhood home, the home I frequently return to is actually the house my parents moved to when I was 14-15. I know I wrote that I grew up there, but in my mind it does feel more like "home" than any of my earlier childhood homes, and since I've been bouncing around apartments for the past 8 years it makes sense that I subconsciously still think of it as home.

Libico, the fact that the pain is so sharp, plus in your back -- the master-slave location, where you are the slave -- strongly suggests to me that that parent subconsciously so hates what you are doing. Are you supposed to be weak and dependent and to know your place, perhaps?

Regarding the above, I've never shared what I'm doing with him directly as I'm not sure how open he is to this. I'm very open with my mother about this and it's likely that they talk about it. I know that dropping everything and moving halfway around the world was a big shocker to my father as it goes against everything he thinks to be the correct "path" (i.e. good grades, degree, good job), but he was envious that I was able to do what I felt was right for me - this could also be subconscious feelings of resentment on his side for going against his wishes, and for doing something he always wanted to do but was too afraid to - these are things I've spoken about with my mother, so I'm not just shooting in the dark with this.

Regarding the OBE, I have a few things that I'm wondering about:

To see my physical body flickering in and out - does that have significance?
When I called for my guardian angels and 3 entity's appeared - is there any significance to them sending me a mental image of their names?

I will search for some older threads about de-cording - as always very much appreciate your posts TraineeHuman!

TraineeHuman

3rd December 2012, 04:42

Libico, one observation I would make is that generally people are deeply and secretly (from themselves) attached to -- "in love with" -- their miseries and their unhappinesses. It sounds very likely, as you say, that your father has not forgiven himself -- and hence wants you to stay in your place, energetically speaking, within his "empire". And that he subconsciously feels highly uncomfortable when at some level you rock his boat extensively by rising up ever so high to where you get a birds-eye view and see everything in proportion, so to speak.

In reply to one of your questions: when I used to astral travel I'd often see the physical body flickering -- but probably that's just a sign of being absorbed in the pulsing of an energy from a higher D.

Some of the other things you describe suggest you have been getting to 6D or at least borderline 6D. To me these are wonderful places. The borderline between 5D and 6D is where we all go not only in most of our dreams, but also every night as we are falling asleep. So, I believe it's somewhere that's one of our true homes as a species. It's a wonderful place because it's the birthplace of all forms. The 6D world is full of intuitions and (unworded) ideas and creative inspirations. But it's only when these come down into 5D that they take on precise expression. I guess many don't appreciate, though, that meaning and meanimngfulness most certainly exists into 6D and beyond -- and how!

That borderline area of symbols and so on is also the material that creative artists work with and become masters of (in their spirits). And also true clairvoyants. For that reason, I strongly suspect that some creative artists -- the true ones -- learn to travel in that world without a higher body. And also into the 6D world, from which they draw their "inspiration". And I'll bet they get there without needing to learn how to travel in 4D first.

In my next post I'll describe some of the extraordinarily pleasurable and wonderful things I have experienced when travelling in 6D and 7D.

But let me add that even to master that borderline world of 6D/5D you have to learn to make your conciousness very, very subtle. That makes you hypersensitive. In other words, it make you feel pain much more intensely and easily than any "normal" person. You have to really open yourself up and strip away all your shields. You don't really need them at that level anyway. It's no accident that many (but not all!) of the most famous creative artists became alcoholics or drug addicts. They could not continue to bear the pain day and night, even though it brought them to living with extreme beauty and fineness day and night. The only way out is to drop clinging to the self -- or, at least, the personality, because the self is the source of all our inner pain.

Actually, a complete dropping of self -- a complete psychological death --doesn't come up as the "guardian of the threshhold" until we come up to the 13th Dimension. But even to discuss this more limited dropping of the need to possess a "body" to travel about in brings us to the world of 6D, which I'll discuss in my next post.

soleil

3rd December 2012, 13:17

Libico

3rd December 2012, 15:41

Keep at it teradactyl! I'll never forget one of my first experience (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?49581-My-attempts-to-go-OOBE-a-journal&p=550784#post550784)s - I didn't go into this with any real fear (mainly excitement) but the vibrations I felt were pretty intense. I found that breathing deeply and audibly seemed to keep me relaxed enough to experience the vibrations. It took me a few times to do anything other than experience the vibrations, but even that was enough to make me a believer and know I had found all the proof I needed that this was real - the vibrations are so unlike anything I've experienced that I had no doubt of what I was experiencing.

What I found worked for me was that once the slight vibrations started I tried to focus on them and keep my breathing steady - I didn't try to "will" them to get stronger (well, I did a few times since and it never worked) but try to feel them spread throughout your body, almost like you are floating in a stream letting it take you where it will. Be sure to write down everything the moment you wake up too, as things can slip away very quickly upon waking and writing it will solidify it in your memory.

soleil

3rd December 2012, 18:27

gdelisle

4th December 2012, 02:45

Hi everybody,

Early this afternoon, I dozed off into a nap at around 3 pm. After sleeping for awhile, I "woke up," grabbed my guitar, and walked downstairs and started playing only to suddenly realize I was back in my bed. This false awakening, as I thought it was due to the fact that I saw friends of mine in my house during the "dream state". After the realization, I suddenly felt as if my head was falling through the bed (I was lying on my side). I heard rushing sounds, and felt pretty vulnerable as I became aware of what was going on. I tried leaving the body by will, but I failed. I also tried creating a psychic barrier around me to protect against negative entities. Finally, I was sucked back up from my fall through the bed into my body, and woke in the sleep paralysis state. I could see my room, but it seemed as if I had more than 2 arms and legs (I saw multiple). I tried calling out, as I have done before, and as expected with no answer. I couldn't move, but could see everything and could talk, but I don't think anyone could hear me. Finally, I managed to shake myself out of the paralysis, only to come downstairs and begin to write this.

This was a truly exhilarating experience and I would appreciate any type guidance as to what I can do the next time I am encountered with this situation!

Thanks again and love to all!!

TraineeHuman

4th December 2012, 05:46

trainee, i have a question for you that has been boggling my mind while i am awake and im sure affects my attempts when i go to bed.

how do we know what kind of thoughts about our physical body will return 'the new traveler' to their body? or inhibit us from leaving our bodies? i've read (in books/threads) of where our 'consciousness' realizes the body is paralyzed and there fore cannot move it (prior to exit). does a thought like this stop us from leaving the body?

essentially, what kind of body thoughts keep you back and what ones allow you to move ahead?

Hi again Teradactyl,

I can only tell you what I have learned based on my own experiences and from those of other people I have known. The biggest thing that stands out for me is that the people who can OB travel easily are the ones who are comparatively free of their conditioning. It seems to take most people years of intensive self-psychotherapy or intensive personal development, plus usually years of intensive meditation, before they break free of all the fog and the darkness and the heaviness. It does happen to some rare people much quicker than that. But it really does seem to come down to what is the person's overall "level" of liberation from their conditioning in certain or many ways.

The quest for such liberation is the most important thing there is. It requires total dedication. It's not a matter of what thoughts you think. To the extent that your thoughts are important here, they'll all be just right provided your quality of being is right. The question is, how much are you willing to give of your very deepest self, of your all? If you know there is a priceless great diamond buried deep underground at a certain location, the question is, are you 100% unreservedly willing to dump everything else and search for and begin to dig for that diamond? If you are, then maybe you can lose much of your baggage in a year or two, if you're lucky. But you must be so dedicated to that project. You must thirst for success in it, no matter what. Be ruthless. Give no quarter. Watch everything you are thinking and feeling, nonstop, always. How much are you willing to give? If not absolutely everything, then it may well not work out. (I'm not saying to resign from your job and divorce your partner, but to learn to "be in the world but not part of it".) I don't want to discourage you, either, because as I say, nothing else is as important as this anyway.

I've also mentioned the importance of meditation, and how similar OB travel is to that. In all my understanding, meditation is all about becoming a "professional"-level master at letting go (pardon that cliche). Going with the flow, letting it (everything) be, surrendering to your deeper consciousness that you can't control. So, as far as I understand it it's not about thinking this or thinking that. It's about learning to detach as if you were miles away and miles above, and still stay with whatever is going on, but from that "very cool" vantagepoint.

As far as paralysis goes, as far as I'm aware that only happens when somebody who's already OB tries to rush back into their physical body too quickly. Personally, I always saw the silver cord of energy that connected me to my physical body's belly. I learnt that just by putting attention on that cord I could get back into the physical body very safely and very quickly (but as I've said, psychic protection before you start). When I'd travel further, such as to another planet, it would be violet in colour with a bright silver star every few meters, but it was extremely elastic.

You seem to keep trying to figure everything out. (Better to figure the puzzle that is you out. OB travel doesn't need to get analysed -- it's already a natural process.) Unfortunately, the whole mechanism by which attachment is formed involves thought. Specifically, attachment gets formed by repeating the same thought over and over, combined with some strong feeling. But as I say, what we need here is detachment. As "Jesus" says in the Bible, you're not going to make yourself an inch taller by doing lots and lots of thinking about it.

TraineeHuman

5th December 2012, 08:39

Before we begin to talk about 6D and 7D, let me point out that while sleeping at night every one of us goes into what is known as delta wave sleep. During such “death-like” sleep is when nearly all the physical body’s self-healing goes on. But if you read a little about studies of delta brainwave states, it’s quite clear that they occur probably in at least the 7D world. So we do all go there every night, however unlucidly.

I must confess that for me the delightful worlds of 6D and beyond have meant a number of important things. For one thing, they have always felt like what I have sometimes thought of – rightly or wrongly – as the Buddhist Void. Basically, they remind me intensely of the worlds of 13D and higher (the universal or divine worlds). In 13D, there is an unimaginably beautiful and joyful yet profoundly cool “hollowness” that pervades everything. It penetrates through the walls of buildings and of everything else in 3D and higher. Somehow, just by going into 6D I get reminded so much of the 13D “hollowness” that it often sends me into intense joy which is far more powerful and satisfying (non-physically) than any sexual experience -- though admittedly different in character from the latter.

Even in its own right, the 6D world is a most exhilarating place to visit. “Wait a minute,” some may be thinking. Didn’t he say early in this thread that once one has crossed into 6D, there are no more pictures or symbols, as these are replaced by something which he claims is much more real? “Yet, in a formless world,” you may be thinking, “isn’t there just a kind of grey soup where every being is so interconnected with every other that it’s all just kind of one great blob?” Well, no, it isn’t like that at all. Not at all.

If I may go conceptual/ analytical for a moment, let me say that the 6D world is made up not of particles but of things such as (to give you one option) fields. You may be aware that quantum physics uses concepts such as that of a field – but there is an attempt at every point to “particle-ise” everything. Take away the obsession with particles, however, and you suddenly lose, or solve, all the quantum paradoxes. A field is infinite, for example, and is therefore in effect, in its reach, just as big as the universe. You could say it contains the universe as much as the universe contains it. (For more about quantum physics in a readable and easy to understand form, see Gary Zukav’s book The Dancing Wu-Li Masters.)

The 6D worlds and higher are just very different kinds of worlds than what we are used to imagining a “world” is like. Can you, reader, throw away all your presuppositions about what a “world” is supposed to be like, and feel like? Because these worlds aren’t like some kind of gluey, grey soup at all. They’re just very, very different. And they’re where the human species will eventually be living in the far distant future.

Incidentally, the 13D world is the world of time. Not the 4D world, as your physics teacher or Stephen Hawking may try to tell you. The “time” that physicists know is only a tiny – and very distorted -- fragment of what time truly is. (True time doesn’t flow, at all. It exists as the eternal Now. Western philosophers worked this out around a hundred years ago. Ancient Eastern philosophers worked it out thousands of years before.) The physicists' "time" is the fragment which is totally measurable. But that’s not what time really is. Real time is roughly the same as pure existence, or being. The “time” of the physicists is a little like the US dollar. Maybe not totally worthless, and very widely used, but really, in the end, just a kind of label rather than a reality that has true worth. And an artificial creation that can only exist as long as nearly everybody is deluded into believing it’s the real thing. Don’t be fooled by the conditioning regarding what time is, folks.

I have experienced OB travel through worlds of time of two quite different kinds. Extraordinarily interesting. But it wasn’t primarily travel into past or future dates, as far as I noticed.

We are all infinite beings, on a long journey of gradually disentangling ourselves from the physical world and from the 4D astral world and so on. If not in this lifetime, then in the future.

Finally, I want to make it very clear that the 6D world is formless. It absolutely doesn’t have six dimensions of form, as, say, Ashayana Deane would like to and does claim. The number of dimensions of form that would be required to cope with the lowest of the formless worlds – if that would even begin to be possible -- would be infinite. Think about it. A world defined by six physical dimensions like length, width and breadth would contain lots of forms. These forms would have measurements such as a certain height, width and length, and so on. Because such a world would be made up of such forms, it cannot be a formless world, by any stretch. End of story.

Quite apart from anything else, I have personally experienced physical worlds that have six dimensions where we have three. I can assure you that these worlds (or planets) are much the same as our world, and quite unlike the formless worlds I know and love in just about every way.

Secondly, let’s assume that faster-than-light travel occurs by warping space at stargates – as is generally believed by most members of this Forum, I assume. To warp 3D space you have to have at least a 4D physical (not astral) world to “bend” the 3D space in, if not a 6D physical world. That’s a mathematical fact, much like one plus one equals two. You may have seen an educational TV program or whatever where the expert physicist bends a flat sheet of paper and then moves the paper so that point A is now touching point B. Bending, or warping, space, the physicist explains, enables instantaneous travel because two otherwise distant points then get brought together, just as the demonstration with bending the piece of paper shows.

If there seems to be interest, I’ll try to explain at least a little more about formlessness in some later posts. I appreciate it’s hard to get your head around it, but it sure isn’t some sort of “emptiness” – not unless you mean an “emptiness” which is far more aware and alive than the world we know.

TraineeHuman

7th December 2012, 08:59

“True love detaches,” said C. S. Lewis.
Not only that. Our whole capacity to love truly depends on how completely we can detach.

Why? Because whenever we engage with somebody else, we instinctively dive into their world. But only as deeply as we can without getting stuck there. Their world is their world, and our world is ours.
“Sympathy” means getting stuck in the same puddle as the other person. We need empathy instead.

So, for professional counselors, psychotherapists, social workers, nurses, teachers, and so on, detachment is a required skill. They are expected to master it by the second year of professional practice, if not sooner. Otherwise, they won’t cope, because they’ll take all their clients’ problems home with them at night.

It seems like quite a few doctors, and maybe some nurses, desensitize themselves from their natural bodily reaction to things like human blood. That’s not detachment, though. It’s switching off. There’s not nearly enough caring then.

What I’m trying to do in this post is shed some light on why detachment is absolutely central and crucial to every aspect of spirituality, to your evolution.

Really its importance extends into every part of our life. It applies equally to how we relate to ourselves as to how we relate to others. And, how we relate to ourselves determines how we behave with regard to everything else anyway. It’s not important just for counselors etc.

My understanding of what spiritual liberation means is as follows. The truly free person is someone for whom nothing and no-one can really blow his or her “cool”. It doesn’t matter what problems or sufferings certain work tasks or people or life situations may bring up. The free person is the one who doesn’t get brought down and “made” unhappy by any such thing. The free person doesn’t mind, and continues to feel OK regardless. At least OK, fine, despite the impact of the unpleasantness. And that’s all about having an inner detachment.

So, one thing which I would suggest that anybody interested in OB should work to develop is their detachment. It doesn’t matter what “stage” of success at OB travel you might be at. Certainly, for me, learning to be experienced at astral travel was one of the things that taught me about what such detachment feels like, and how to help get into it.

For a number of years while going about various daily activities I would frequently “hover” from a vantage point well OB, but with my eyes open. I could not do this all the time, for example it would have been very dangerous for me to even attempt to drive while in this state. On the other hand, I soon discovered that if I was engaged in counselling or psychic healing or creative work, for example, going into and staying in this state while my eyes remained open made me much more effective at doing those things.

In probably my next post I’ll describe more of the kinds of skills I was developing at that time, and what sorts of things I felt. Although preferred ways of going OB are unique to each person, I hope such a description may be of use to somebody.

This has a lot of connection with the world of 6D as I know it. That's because that world is a place where you can wander free, unencumbered. Any burden you might have seems so light there, you don't even carry it while you're there. You become a watcher, a witness.

Reinhard

7th December 2012, 09:23

Thanks a lot, Traineehuman, for sharing your deep in-sides. Your humble and clear advice will help me to "get there", I'm sure.

jackovesk

7th December 2012, 12:24

The answer is extremely simple...

OBE's are not only the 'Gateway' to the other side, they are the 'Gateway' to our 'Own' reality...:)

Personally, I feel greatful we (ALL) get a chance to go back home...:)

TraineeHuman

7th December 2012, 23:15

I agree with you, Jackovesk, that the point of the OB exercise is ultimately to dwell in whatever is truly our own world. I guess that world ultimately, but that is ultimately, turns out to be Source itself, but from our unique perspective. And you’ve made a good point. Be true to your own true heart, and that’s where you’ll find God.

I agree it’s very simple, but that doesn't make it easy, for most people.

Any OB point of view enables a person to see who they truly are more clearly. Often people are so caught up in whatever they are doing, they might have little or no accurate idea just who/what they are really being or behaving as at the time, or why.

TraineeHuman

8th December 2012, 08:17

Just an update to those who’ve agreed to let me visit them to attempt a little remote healing or “processing” work with them:

I’ll be visiting most of you in the next week or week and a half. I’ve been super-busy up till now with work commitments and also with handling the consequences of moving house, unfortunately.

I did visit one of you already. But that individual wasn’t so good at holding their own energy body – their 4D and 5D bodies – steady. So I spent the time trying to help them not to “wobble”. This problem happens with everyone who is new to “energy” work and who is also fairly new to meditation.

In around two weeks I’ll PM all of you and try to organise a time for a “group flight” also, for those interested.

TraineeHuman

9th December 2012, 07:20

Several years after I learnt how to astral travel at night, I found a certain spiritual teacher –cum- psychotherapist. The type of therapy he used was a form of eye-gazing meditation. The biggest Zen sect today still practices eye-gazing meditation in a certain form, though probably a little differently. (He also taught me a walking meditation similar to that used today in many Zen monasteries. But I wonder if even all the Zen masters today any longer understand some of the "technical" details of what these practices are for, and how to get maximum benefit from them.)

The primary outcome of each session was the insights which were released in me when one or more “hitchhikers” were removed. Their removal was a detachment from my consciousness, to and in which they had up till then been attached.

I’ve felt reluctant to post in the current thread on hitchhikers because I’m not sure many might not find what I have to say credible, or might consider me half-insane. To the best of my knowledge, many of the hitchhikers are some of the individual’s own past-life personalities, or imprinted personalities – not necessarily just from this world or planet. Some others are ancestors or dead relatives or close friends who have died. Incidentally, how do you think a “guide” manages to influence you, unless they’re sometimes in partial control of your consciousness?

Very soon after I had started seeing that therapist/teacher, he met a very experienced psychic. She was very aware that after he removed hitchhikers from his clients’ consciousnesses, he was sending them elsewhere in the physical world. There they would inevitably attach to the consciousness of someone else who had a physical body. In fact, he confessed to her he was sending them all to a certain maternity hospital, so they would attach to new babies!

The psychic, however, was expert in how to send the hitchhikers to a certain area in 5D. This was done by using what was known (since the nineteenth century) as the Ascension Ritual of her religion, the religion of Oahspe.

I soon learnt how to use that ritual also. It invited in what I would now describe as certain healing angels. These literally took the hitchhikers with them, out of this world and into the 5D world. After some months I found I seemed to be able to take the hitchhikers of any clients I worked on to the Oahspe part of 5D myself.

Then I learnt how to just go to that area of 5D and just “hover” there, eyes open, during normal activities such as work. I also found that while “hovering” there I could remove some hitchhikers from, or otherwise defuse some of the negative energies of, the people around me.

A few months later, the teacher/therapist passed me on to one of his clients who then became my teacher/therapist for a few months. Believe it or not, I had just recently directly met the gods Pan and Gaia/Kali. But, as far as I could tell, this fellow actually had those gods attached to him as hitchhikers at the time. He was quite unaware of their presence, though. He was always taking me to wild places where the nature spirits were extremely strong. We used to joke about how he was Don Juan Matus and I was Carlos Castaneda. He claimed he didn’t mind if I took notes, though I felt he did mind, because that would have been analyzing or conceptualizing too much. I now regret I didn’t take those notes. For a number of months around that time, he had lived in a cave in a wild natural spot. By day he worked in the corporate world. The area where his cave was was full of large funnel web (tarantula) spiders and poisonous snakes. But he wasn’t fazed by them at all.

One of the amazing phenomena when we went walking in those wild or natural places was seeing all the nature spirits everywhere glowing so vividly and communicating so intelligently as the supreme king and queen of Nature on the planet passed by. Unforgettable.

Incidentally, that man had very clear and precise memories of how he had practiced eye-gazing meditation seven thousand years ago. He said he was a type of monk back then, in the jungles near the border of India and Burma. Those monks wore green, and they worked in secret, keeping even their existence a secret.

It would be quite a few years before I could actually begin to see hitchhikers. All I used to see back then would be violet lights. Violet is the colour of the healing angels who are responsible for taking hitchhikers to a higher dimension.

But the feeling of “hovering” in that space was quite extraordinary. It was a whole new way of seeing things, a way where I could wander free at so many levels. It took time and hard work to get there. But I know this is something every human being was “meant” to learn and master somehow.

The way to get rid of most hitchhikers was to directly face your demons, your inadequacies, your failures – kind of one at a time and intensely and without letting up. Eventually you could come to a core insight about what false point of view you had been holding on to. Then the hitchhiker would have to leave anyway. So I guess another way to get to detachment is to calmly question everything you believe about yourself.

But if you are serious about realizing the God-nature within you, you have to do it by somehow giving up all sorts of identities that you believed were part of you.

However you manage to do that, that’s detachment.

TraineeHuman

10th December 2012, 11:07

I've now visited five of the eight members I promised to do some kind of healing work on. When I've visited all eight of you, and re-visited several, I'll PM you to let you know which number person you were on the list. So some of the comments below apply to you only if you're one of the five I've already visited.

Here's a candid description of what I experienced with each of you. For those I haven't been to yet, I have to say that everyone's unique. I'm not posting this progress description to try to influence you, but just for your general interest.

The first person I visited certainly wanted to travel OB to find a better world, but had dulled their consciousness to lessen the pain of living in this vale of tears. When I visited it was like there were one or two heavy stones that were weighing me down, too, just from connecting to this person. They almost put me to sleep by knockout. That’s almost, and I think they got removed permanently. After that, I worked on an inability that person had to hold their energies steady.

The second person I visited was absolutely full of good intentions in a sensible sort of way. Although they were rather new to this sort of thing, I felt they could easily go a long way indeed, perhaps very quickly. They were only halfway “there” when it came to knowing how to hold their (thought and feeling) energies steady.

The third person seemed to be an experienced meditator and OB traveler at least at some level, even though they probably don’t quite realise they are. They had no trouble at all gobbling up the healing energies I was sending. In a gentle kind of way, quite a strong personality, I would say. They were also remarkably knowing. They stopped receiving after 12 minutes while I was intending to give them at least 20 minutes. Somehow they knew that they had received considerably more in 12 minutes than the others so far had done in 20. My only concern was that this person was too focused on receiving or enjoying positive healing energy at a feeling and thought level, but didn’t seem to realise that the real goodies, though much more subtle, were being “sent” (well, they were “present” rather than sent) at a 15D level. Also that possibly this person could be sticking with what they kind of already knew, rather than being interested in venturing out into new territory. Nevertheless, I’m sure this person could learn to OB travel easily at will in 4D and 5D, with the right of amount of practice and intention.

The fourth person seemed to just want to have some of their hitchhikers removed. Each time a hitchhiker – or a thought-form – gets removed up into 5D, I see a violet light. Most of the time I couldn’t help noticing an almost non-stop violet blur, as one attaching “parasite” after another was getting removed. It was like being present at a racing car event. I couldn’t tell whether this person has already learnt to meditate at a very subtle and “light” level, or whether they still need to learn (e.g. through hours of meditation) how to hold their energies more steady, like the first two individuals. But they sure had a thirst to offload a maximum number of hitchhikers in the quickest possible time. That impresses me. It’s very brave, yet very intelligent.

The fifth person was a huge surprise to me. This person is quite unaware that they already have powerful and sophisticated OB skills. At first they gobbled up all my healing energy very smoothly and capably, though I guess not quite as intensely or steadily as the third person had been able to do. Incidentally, to me that indicates that the third and the fifth were people who have learnt how to truly like themselves and accept themselves and forgive themselves (but combined with being responsible for whatever they do).

Then this person was literally picking my brains and my consciousness by getting straight to the point and asking to be shown – through direct experience – the utmost wisdom that I knew regarding what true liberation means. This mostly involved a very powerful effort by this person to probe every shade of understanding I had in regard to the pineal gland’s and the third eye’s operation – not on a 3D level but, I suspect as close to 15D as we could get to at the time. Indeed, I was forced to move into some higher dimensions just to keep in touch with where this person was going and what they wanted to see. This person’s thirst for getting direct experience of the highest truth or beingness I had to offer was remarkable. In the end, though, this person was trying to kind of drill through the “solid rock” of their own unconsciousness that stopped them from being able to see and directly experience further. They kind of got stuck in that impenetrable rock towards the end. Still, their ambition for getting “the meat” of total liberation was immense, and very impressive.

Libico

10th December 2012, 12:04

Thanks for taking the time to visit each of us TraineeHuman - this is very much appreciated.

One of the many things I hope to get out of learning OBE and is to be able to help people much like you are helping us now.

I'll try and remember to give you a spiritual high-five next time/the first time we meet!

TraineeHuman

13th December 2012, 00:56

... watching videos and reading the other day, I read many references to very scary and dark creatures appearing that were unable to be expelled. Since I am a beginner, this scares the complete life outta me. If I remember correctly, they cannot harm me (I think) but is there any insight to what these "creatures" are or how to prevent them from appearing? Thanks!

It looks like in post #45 I didn’t explain about psychic protection clearly enough. I’ll describe my recommended method again below. But first, a long digression.

Although, for example, Castaneda’s writings about “Don Juan Matus” and other subjects seem to have been three-quarters fiction, I happen to have had real teachers some of whom were truly psychic masters. So, when I say that something is the most effective means of psychic protection, you probably have no idea just how much detailed and informed research and experience and background lies behind that.

Actually, nobody I have known was as concerned with psychic protection as these teachers. Not that they weren’t extremely strong – probably stronger, and certainly far more experienced, than most of you. It’s just that they were very sensitive, very aware. One teacher used to invoke psychic protection before and while going to any public place, or just about anywhere. And she would psychically cleanse herself after anybody (except her partner) physically touched her even slightly. She would also psychically cleanse any metal coins in her possession of their energies. And so on. Another teacher, for example, would never go near any location where alcohol was being consumed. Some others insisted on a vegetarian diet, and on showering every morning and also every evening before bed. And so on and so forth.

It’s not that there are “evil” ETs out there somehow waiting to exploit or enslave your spirit. That’s just the cabal’s fear-mongering disinfo. The cabal has so much money, so many talk-show hosts. It’s certainly true there are many robots some call “greys” that aren’t friendly, and artificially created robots some of which look like (or are) “the Reptilians”, but as far as I’m aware that’s about it. Except for the demonic beings, who as far as I’m aware are all human – and ultimately not as powerful as any of the true gods. (Watch some of James Horak’s videos for the most accurate account I’ve come across.)

It does seem to be true that those “grey” robots sometimes abduct people’s personalities (as distinct from their bodies). They can only abduct the ego, the personality – but nothing of the Higher Self. It does also certainly seem to be true that bodily abductions occur. And that many such abductees then experience the unconscionable abuse of MILABS abduction as well. But whether or not a person gets interfered with in this way seems to have nothing in common with whether or not they go OB traveling.

I would add that if you go OB traveling without first protecting yourself, there’s a reason why you could actually attract negative entities. I believe – and Jung agreed with this later in his career – that the most important aspect of spiritual development is to reconcile with and own and dissolve your dark side. I have already posted at length about your dark side in the thread “Interview – Paul Levy Wetiko and the Dreaming” in the Articles, etc section of General Discussion in late October. (Why isn't every Avalon member reading and applying this? I know they certainly need it!)

The point is, if you haven’t fully faced and dissolved your dark side – which takes far, far longer than you think to succeed in doing --, then your psyche will be full of various little negative “shadows” which you haven’t truly admiited are parts of you. So, without protection you can find yourself being “attacked” all over the place by what are actually parts of your own negativity. Secondly, those bits of negativity to which you are blind will give other negative entities a means of latching onto you or contacting you.

Now, finally, more description of what to do to protect yourself as I described in post #45. Close your eyes and focus on what it feels like just simply to be alive. Hopefully you can say it feels OK. Preferably, you can say it feels good, if not wonderful. But I’ll take OK if that’s the best that you can muster up. So, the method of protection is to feel what it’s like to simply be alive, and imagine that feeling as joining up all your individual cells. At the same time, say to yourself with strong intention that the healing light is protecting, and will continue to protect, yourself and all your cells in every way. That’s all you need to do.

Eram

13th December 2012, 13:10

I have already posted at length about your dark side in the thread “Interview – Paul Levy Wetiko and the Dreaming” in the Articles, etc section of General Discussion in late October.

That would be this thread then:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?42499-Interview-Paul-Levy-Wetiko-the-Dreaming&highlight=Interview+Paul+Levy+Wetiko+Dreaming

very valuable read....Thnx!

TraineeHuman

14th December 2012, 00:48

I’ll shortly be posting a report on the remaining long-distance healing visits. First, though, one of the things I’ve now learnt for sure is that you shouldn’t worry about the vibrations. Don’t even wait for those vibrations. If you have your 4D vision on – such as if you can see 360 degrees around you –, or if you can move through solid objects, then you’re already in 4D.

People often slip into 4D without the vibrations. I usually do – but then, sometimes I seem to go straight to 6D and beyond. The sooner you can stop relying on or worrying about those vibrations and you still manage to get there, the better.

In fact, the sooner you can OB travel without using any type of body, the better. Even that is not so hard to learn to do. You learn to do it by accident at first. You don’t learn to do it by kind of forcing yourself, unless you really prefer the hard way. I know you can do this because I've visited eight of you and seen where you're all at. I've been impressed.

Chester

14th December 2012, 15:10

WoW! strange I took a vacation from this thread until Wakytweaky woke me back up to it!!! I know why I put it down... it was when TraineeHuman said she/he?? (I don't even know which?!) would be gone for a few days.

I do know this - I had some bazaar dream experiences. In one, I once again hooked up with former President George W. Bush. I have had at least 6 or 7 vivid dream encounters with him. I know folks might not like what I have to say about him, but the man I met in my dreams had a huge and wonderful heart. I also had one very vivid Obama dream but only one... I had several with Bill Clinton.

In all these vivid dream experiences, these were super excellent souls... I am sorry that I am stating what I am pretty sure most folks won't like reading, but, please, remember my worst character trait...

"I love everyone."

Cheers, Chester

TraineeHuman

14th December 2012, 22:10

... I do know this - I had some bazaar dream experiences. In one, I once again hooked up with former President George W. Bush. I have had at least 6 or 7 vivid dream encounters with him. I know folks might not like what I have to say about him, but the man I met in my dreams had a huge and wonderful heart. I also had one very vivid Obama dream but only one... I had several with Bill Clinton.

In all these vivid dream experiences, these were super excellent souls... I am sorry that I am stating what I am pretty sure most folks won't like reading, but, please, remember my worst character trait...

"I love everyone."

Cheers, Chester

Power corrupts. Absolute, or great, power corrupts greatly.
It would take an extraordinarily strong soul to be able to use power wisely.
I guess that's a strong argument for decentralising power.

And I believe it when you say you love everyone, Chester, because I've visited you OB and know you're more than capable of doing so.

Caren

15th December 2012, 01:15

TraineeHuman

15th December 2012, 01:39

Hello TraineeHuman,
about a week ago I was asleep and dreaming when the dream was interrupted by an unusual noise - it woke me up, I think.
I say 'I think' because I remember clearly trying to look out of my bedroom window to see if it was coming from the sky.. but now I'm not sure because this was an especially loud, high pitched, electronic type noise and no one else in the house heard it. I remember thinking everyone in the neighborhood would be able to hear it. Toward the end it was pulsating and gradually diminished. Any idea what this could be? Thank you.

Hi Caren,

I visited you about six days ago. My intuition very definitely says you heard that noise at the end of my visit. Actually, my experience was that it was you that interrupted things. And that I left because, for whatever reason, you preferred, in a quite friendly way, that I should leave at that point.

I believe the high-pitched noise had something to do with my departure. I don't know if it was electronic, but may have sounded that way, I guess. Probably you're clairaudient. I have a very strong sense of smell in 3D, and in 4D I'm quite clair-smellient or whatever the correct term is.

Caren

15th December 2012, 02:13

gdelisle

15th December 2012, 02:49

TraineeHuman

15th December 2012, 05:08

Hi Trainee,
A few days ago, (wedsneday), I had a a very similar experience that I had a few days before. It consisted of me just lying down to take a nap, and eventually just falling asleep. However, while being deep in my sleep, I suddenly woke up, feeling like I was falling through the bed and hearing rushing noises. My initial intention at the beginning of the nap was to attempt OBE, but I ended up dozing off and eventually into this situation. Apart from the rushing noises and the feeling of floating down through the bed, I remember seeing my room, just blurry. I was in my body (I think) but I knew my physical eyes weren't open because I was in sleep paralysis (or at least just about to fall into it). Anyway, this has happened twice now and any attempts to progress further than this have failed mostly because I don't know what to do. Do you know what kind of situation I was in, or what I could do to finally go OBE because for some reason I felt pretty helpless this time, as in, I knew what was happening and thought that I was not going to be able to get any further....

Well, first of all: guess what? I did visited you briefly last Wednesday (afternoon, your time). As I experienced it, you certainly did a lot, presumably while you were asleep/unlucid. Also, beginners often experience sleep paralysis because they're a little jerky at "changing gears" between 3D and 4D.

Secondly, you can't be in sleep paralysis unless you've successfully been lucidly OB just before. People often don't remember when they've been lucid, even if that was only a minute ago.

Thirdly, like any skill, this takes a lot of work, a lot of practice. It sounds like you're at least on PAR so far. Learning to be good at meditation helps considerably. But then, that's also a lot of work. Ruthlessly facing your demons helps a lot -- if you're up for it. I guess that could be a shortcut that I happen to know you in particular might be capable of really using. I appreciate that may sound discouraging at first. Sorry. But many have gotten there just by plugging on and not giving up.

TraineeHuman

15th December 2012, 10:35

Here’s the second part of my report on the visits. Just my impressions.

(6)
When I attempted to visit the sixth person, I initially couldn’t locate them. Let me explain. I’m used to locating a person remotely by using my intention to focus on them and to send healing “energies” from various dimensions simultaneously. However, normally the 3D and 4D parts of those “energies” hit the target of the person’s body. Once I’ve engaged with their 3D body, I find it easy to engage with them. Their 3D body is their address. Actually, I don’t really engage but I very soon step aside altogether and just let the spirit flow. Believe it or not, I then do nothing, except be – and leave all the action to the client and their consciousness.

It seemed clear that this person was traveling OB at the time. But I couldn’t locate them by normal means because no matter how subtle and gentle and sensitive I made the “energy”, it wasn’t subtle enough. Undoubtedly, this must have been because the person was traveling in a formless dimension.

After some minutes I was at last aware of making some faint contact. That individual then came and literally ever-so-gently and effortlessly pulled my astral body through the blue ring that’s the entry into the astral world!

Then they showed me a beautiful image of a very expensive version of the chess piece for the king or queen in chess, made in beautiful colours. I suspect the individual was showing me a symbol to point me “up” to the 5D/6D border where deep symbols come from, and wanted to engage at a higher level still. “Follow the breadcrumbs. Let’s keep heading up.” By this time I had already taken 9 minutes just to locate them properly. In 6D, it can be like trying to grab a slippery piece of soap. I decided to do a re-visit at a later time, when I would be more prepared for something like this.

In the formless dimensions “energy” is replaced by light (not 3D light, but something more refined), which can be infinitely subtle, and therefore very elusive. (But people will often see great lights if they are in 6D or 7D.) I would say at the time I wasn’t up to the challenge of meeting this person at that level. On their part, they were willing to show me their deep inner true self. That’s very unusual. Even spiritually evolved sexual partners I have had often weren’t willing to go that deep. Lovely, noble stuff. And very idealistic. I’m afraid I consider ideals to be great signposts or benchmarks, but they do need to keep being adjusted to reality – in the 3D world, that is.

Twenty-three hours later, I visited this sixth person again. This time they weren’t OB traveling. For the first minute or so things went much as in a normal healing. Usually, in a healing session, I feel the 3D and 4D energy flowing out of my palms, less strongly out of the bottom of my feet, and more subtly along and beyond my spine and head, mostly. I have certain ways of knowing if and when “energy” or light-awareness is being shared as well, and at roughly what dimensional levels. That does also produce some physical “symptoms”.

However, this person was soon forcing me to challenge all my customary methods of psychic healing. The person kept making the energies subtler and subtler, until they very quickly were replaced by what seemed like pure light. The person was often acting like they were the healer or the teacher. I on the other hand suspect that this was a sign of them compulsively wanting to be the hero, the leader. They also initially refused to accept any physical healing energy coming from anywhere on the right side of my body. I’ve never experienced that before in a healing session. Even though I do sometimes experience that that half (the right half or the left half) of a person’s body feels almost energyless, at a 4D level. Not that this person had that problem.

The preoccupation with going ever subtler, and therefore higher-D, was in stark contrast to the fifth person, who had tried to use sheer force of effort and strength of intention to storm the kingdom of heaven. Unfortunately for the fifth person, effort can very easily be corrupted by the ego, or not separated from the ego, and that’s quite a trap. Not that the fifth person didn’t achieve quite a lot in their session.

I would say the sixth person is a very capable OB traveler and psychic healer already, even if they may not know it. One suggestion I would offer them, though, is that Source is really already here, in everything, in the mud and the c***. So, once one has visited and known the highly subtle worlds and even being/divinity/universality itself, one returns – or starts to return -- to the marketplace and learns how to be free from unhappiness there. As long as one still has a physical body, one’s task is primarily to spiritualize the 3D and 4D worlds. Spirituality is not so much “up there” but “in here”. This is something that took me a long time to learn practically even though I have been a natural meditator since childhood, and now I’m 62 and heading towards 63. But I believe it’s the “highest” truth or reality even though it’s not mountaintop truth.

(7)
What I experienced with the seventh person was remarkably similar to what I had experienced with the third. Again, I would guess, somebody quite experienced in meditation, because they had no trouble completely accepting and taking in all the healing “energy” I had on offer. No demands or manipulations of me, just perfect content in receiving whatever was being given. After a few minutes, this changed slightly in that the person started focusing on slightly subtler energy.

Then, after five minutes I was shown a very, very wide pair of wings made of pure gold, and a voice said: “You’re going!” At the same time there was an abrupt shift in the energies being taken, I would say with 4D and 5D energies now where a moment ago 3D and 4D energies were being accepted. I take it the person managed to use the healing energy to propel them OB into the astral world at this point. Then another five minutes of happily receiving whatever I had to offer at that level, except for a gradual shift to greater subtlety towards the end.

Then it seemed as if the person was losing concentration every now and then, as if reception was kind of “falling off” for a few seconds every now and then. But this person was quite happy to have gotten as far as they had – though no doubt they manage to do so by themselves quite often anyway.

(8)
The eighth person had considerable maturity and peace in them, but also apparently had mental blocks that were stopping them from OB traveling. This person used the healing energy/light to slowly remove or defuse a number of such mental blocks. I happen to be absolutely certain that they got rid of the biggest blocks, but that there were also some smaller ones remaining. I expected this person could work through those remaining blocks on their own.

(1)
The next visit was a return to the first person. This time, that person had little difficulty locating and receiving my healing light/energy. I expect that means there is a very good chance this person can learn to travel around in 4D, which after all is the world of pure energy.

I guess healing energy/light is something that some might call a form of “love”. It is certainly very pleasant to experience, very benevolent, and – while the healing session is happening -- focused on that individual only. In some ways, though, it’s rather cool, and unearthly. It’s also completely without strings. And it’s impersonal, because it comes whole from the total being of the healer. And given freely, just pure giving. After four minutes this person planted a very thick cord – make that a bundle of cords -- into my heart centre. I tolerated this for about four or five minutes, but then cut it off, after being aware that my awareness had by itself moved to detaching this person from that cord and its significance. I would interpret this to mean that probably this person was expecting that at the present time they could find happiness through being loved by another person. But pure being simply is, or includes, pure love of the most intense kind. First a person needs to find more of that, I would say, and then they can bring some of that into a relationship, but not vice-versa.

This person then planted a thick cord into my solar plexus, the area of friendship. Again, after a minute or two I cut it off.

However, I was impressed by this person’s sincerity, by their “boots and all” willingness to connect and relate.

After this second visit to the first person, my 3D coordination was absent for more than an hour. I spilt all kinds of things in my kitchen in a major way over half an hour afterwards, for instance. (My fault. I should have brought myself back into my 3D body more quickly, by using a variety of grounding techniques, which I ought to do routinely after every healing.) The fact that it took me so long to get back into my 3D body is proof that this was a very intense healing session and that the person worked extremely well, to put it mildly. Even if they had been not so smooth at OB travel before this healing visit, I wouldn’t be surprised if much of that changed in the space of that visit. Again, impressive sincerity, and great singlemindedness from this person. Although the first visit to this person had been shaky, this totally vindicated my suspicion that this was somebody with great potential.

Still, of course, OB skills take work, and practice. A bit like learning to master a musical instrument.

(2)
Next I revisited the second person. One thing I was hoping to check on was whether that person could hold on smoothly and continuously to what I was sending them from halfway around the planet. Fortunately, this time the person had no trouble at all in doing that. They seemed to prefer a subtle level of energy. I don’t know whether my body had recharged its “batteries” enough at that time. Maybe at that point I mostly only had subtle energy to give, rather than the denser, more 3D-like supposedly “strong” energy. Still, I was happy with that session. This person knows there is important truth to discover OB, and I’m quite sure they have more than enough perseverance not to give up until they’ve really gotten somewhere.

(8)
Finally, I revisited the eighth person. As I had suspected, this person had finished off clearing away their mental blocks regarding OB travel. In a number of ways this is a very well-balanced person (at least on a 4D level).

Next, I felt them probing for any fear in general that they had that might have some effect on their willingness to OB travel. There was something there from two previous lifetimes, but they worked through that very quickly. Then this person made some adjustments to the types of identities they mostly use. After ten minutes, I was confident all subconscious issues that might affect their ability to OB travel had been generally healed and removed.

Of course, the more skilful you become at letting go in order to go OB, the more easily you will be able to let go – maybe quite unconsciously -- of your past not only in your present life but also from past lifetimes.

Chester

15th December 2012, 13:37

That's interesting thank you. Not sure why I would want you to leave :) sorry Trainee. Please know I very much appreciate what you are doing here. It's fascinating to read about your experiences, training etc.
I have been practicing the psychic protection.

Hi - I am no expert at all regarding this subject but I am getting pretty good at understanding the dynamic between the "conscious" part of our overall consciousness and what many refer to as the "sub conscious" and what I found true for me is that expansion of one's courage (and I do not mean foolish bravery... but true courage) widens and shortens a bridge between these two sub components of our overall consciousness.

It has been suggested by clinical psychologists that the average human uses only about 5% of their overall consciousness consciously... where we are aware of what our motivations are for what we think, speak/write and do which I have isolated to be our three basic generalized outputs (or major categories) under which all that comes forth from a Spirit being can be grouped.

What I discovered was my greatest problem all my life was that my sub conscious component was directing my outputs and very little was actually directed by my waking conscious mind.

What prompted me to respond to your post, Caren is a.) my affection for you as you had reached out to me and we created a personal connection (I honor these things greatly) and b.) that I thought I could share my view as to what I read between the lines of your post - that you seemed surprised that "you" might have ended an OBE connection with TraineeHuman because you know (at your waking conscious level) you have little to no fear! and that you want this experience greatly!

So my theory is that the possible "decoupling" came from a deeper part of "you" that resides underneath the surface of your waking conscious (thus within this vast region we call the sub conscious) and that surely with some time / practice, etc... your bridge between the two widens and shortens, that you become more aware of what's going on down under (and thus are able to resolve the deeper fears... fears we all have down there - I have plenty!!) and that you'll go "out there" more and more and not end the experiences... assuming that is what happened.

Apologies I wrote another semi-monster post, but I just thought I might share these thoughts as I am always exploring my theories.

Love to All and Caren and TraineeHuman - Chester

TraineeHuman

16th December 2012, 05:27

The planetary energies have already changed rather abruptly and quite dramatically, as of December 1st/2nd. They are already much subtler, and more joyful. You don’t need to wait until the 21st. The magical time is already here. Justoneman and I both independently observed this. I’m sure there are other members with the skills to objectively confirm this. It's not just because Xmas holidays are approaching, of course.

This is a time for us all to psychically heal others (and ourselves). We all have some level of natural healing ability. Yes, it does work better if you have developed some OB skills. But it works even if you haven't. In your consciousness/mind, create some psychic protection and then focus long-distance on the person or group. Then, simply let light and positive energy flow through you. It's as simple as that. You can, however, focus more specifically, on assisting with a particular issue. As far as I'm concerned, by doing this you're already partly going OB, even if maybe most of your consciousness's energy may remain tied up with keeping your body functioning while you are doing this.

I'd like to invite members to shoot for "miracle" healings -- maybe of the spirit rather than the body. Particularly of the people you influence most: your relatives, your workmates, your customers, your friends, and so on. If possible, be practical. If you can also make practical suggestions to these individuals in 3D, all the better. Whether we like it or not, we often influence others the most through our own example.

Give them inspiration, or a reason to find inspiration. Maybe you can do some small thing to help somebody to find a sensible new career that suits them. Maybe you can persuade a busy mother with kids that she needs to insist on having twenty minutes of alone time every evening, so she can regain her sanity and reflect. Maybe you can demonstrate to them, simply through your own behavior, that life can remain fun in the face of all kinds of hardships or challenges. Maybe you can help them face the pain and discomfort of making certain changes in their life that will make them less unhappy. Maybe you can just be a kind of sounding board for them, a listener who genuinely understands them and values them as they are. And so on.

By all means, meditate intensively, to bring yourself higher. But please, also reach out at this time, both OB and in body.

Jake

16th December 2012, 23:14

hi traineehuman, thank you for making this a post. i love the other two threads, and have read them, AND just finished both buhlman books this weekend.

i wanted to tell you that on friday night, i felt the vibrations. i think i got nervous, or excited and it ended very fast, but i know what i felt. i'd recognize it again.

i have a few random questions...which relates to your most recent post here; does the physical body still get the rest it needs? does our consciousness need rest?

is there anything 'wrong' with doing OBE right at the bedtime (say 10pm), or better to start middle of the night(12am-5am) if waking in the night?

are OBE's possible in close sleeping scenarios? (next to fiance etc)?

how do you deal with nervousness of nonphysical beings in your space immediately after going astral? (i admit i am very nervous about this so i didnt attempt sat or sun night at all).

thanks!!

Hello, T,,, Please allow me to tackle some of your questions.

First of all, if you feel the vibrations, then you are half way there. The Idea then is to pick a couple of 'exit techniques' and go for it. Remember to always 'relax into' the vibrations (or other energetic sensations) to increase their intensity!

Second, yes,, the body still gets plenty of rest. Consciousness does not need rest. Our energy bodies are in full tilt when our physical bodies are sleeping. OBE is a completely natural part of being in deep trance,,, which sleep is!

It is best to practice OBE after at least one sleep cycle. So, no matter what time you go to sleep, set an alarm to wake you about 45 mins into sleep. Then clear your mind and 'coax' the vibrations. Remember to 'relax into' them when they come. After one sleep cycle, your brain has just been through alpha to delta sleep, and now,, it will be more natural for you to enter into 'sleep/trance' from a waking state!! Also, there is a natural energy body glow that will still be active once you wake from delta sleep.

Yes it is completely natural to project while laying next to someone else in bed. I do it all the time. I am often laying in some strange and unnatural positions because of mee wee dogs that think that they have to lay in my spot!!!! :) I will still project!

How do I deal with the reality of other astral beings??? Just grin and bear it!! They are part of it. Being in the astral connects us to a universal one-ness that makes it seem that Astral entities are in your space, when really, they are not,,, you are in theirs... If you let fear lead the way, then you may have difficulty with astral beings. Remember that YOU are a very powerful being, yourself!!! Stand in that power and noone can enter your 'space' if you do not give permission....

Keep up the good work. Jake.

TraineeHuman

17th December 2012, 00:52

Jake, thank you very much for your advice. As I’ve tried to make clear, I don’t have a traditional take on astral travel of the kind you do. (Some – though not all -- of the reasons for that can be found in the recent General Discussion thread “Another view of the Out of Body experiene”.) But I do appreciate that the traditional approach seems to be easier for most beginners. I’m sure your input is greatly appreciated.

I guess I bypassed much of the learning phase by having teachers who literally “lifted” me into 4D or higher enough times that it eventually felt familiar and (as far as I understand) I had ways to go there that bypass the vibrations altogether.

I would say we do all live in a 4D and 5D world as well as 3D all the time, though, because we have a psyche, an ego, and we have emotions and thoughts.

TraineeHuman

17th December 2012, 09:20

One of you has privately raised some interesting questions. These questions are topical given some people’s expectations regarding “ascension” either in the next week or the next three months or the next five years.

When I was visiting the eight individuals, in each case I was consciously OB at the time, and in either 4D, 5D or 6D. One question is as follows. Clearly, my 6D (or 5D, or 4D) HS was in communication with, let’s say, the 6D HS of the other person. But, did their HS know to expect my visit because (what they believed was) their 3D self was expecting it?

Another question is, what is the best way to improve their memory of what happened in 6D? In other words, how to transfer memories from the 6D HS to their 3D self?

I’m going to leave it to people to work out some of the answers through your own experience. But I would like to mention several relevant facts.

Firstly, I understand there’s actually overwhelming evidence from biologists studying the brain that the brain is actually like a TV set or a mobile phone. That is, it’s just a receiver to which “the mind” sends information. I’ll also state without proof that “the mind” is really Source, or the Mind of Source. So, the big puzzle is, how can something which is infinite-dimensional, or at the very least 21-dimensional, communicate anything of its essence into a brain in 3D? I understand in Christian theology this translates into the paradox of how can God be made man? I don’t believe anybody has as yet ever come up with a real explanation of this.

Something else to ponder is that although we move around in a 3D world, our emotions move in a 4D world and our (deeper) thoughts and intellect move in a 5D one. And somebody who is clairvoyant enough will see much of the scenery of the 4D plane without needing to go through the vibrations and travel out of their 3D body. They will see such things as auras around other people, and also energy fields or thought-forms or beings in the 4D world who don’t have any 3D body. I’d like to ask: if such a person can already see what’s in the 4D world, and therefore interact with everything in it, aren’t they already effectively in it? Why would they even bother to astral travel?

Another question to ponder. I happen to know that in some of their dreams every night people meet with their close friends and other significant people in their life at the time. If both they and the people they meet aren’t lucid for at least part of this, then what’s the point of meeting said people in dreamland at all? Moreover, how the heck do they find and exchange things with their friends so easily if they’re traveling blind all the way? This is one of a number of reasons why I find it impossible to believe other than that everybody lucidly astral travels every night. The real mystery is, why do most people forget that they did that, last night and every other night of their lives?

TraineeHuman

17th December 2012, 12:26

Although my reply recently to an OB traveler’s question of how one communicates with the Higher Self was partly just to say that it’s a matter of experiencing, I did mention some examples of where it does seem to make sense that in practice – rather than theory! – sometimes there is a difference between the HS and what we might call the lower self.

I used to have a spiritual teacher who was usually a very accurate clairvoyant. Often if she asked me a question, she would say: "Did you know what you really said? You said ..." Usually, what she claimed I had actually said was, or implied, the opposite of what I had actually said with words. However, she would be listening at a deeper level -- no doubt to what we might call the higher self of mine.

I'm sure the Higher Self isn't always too interested in knowing what the lower self believes to be true. Why get stuck in garbage? On the other hand, the HS will often seek to set the lower self straight on the really important matters through dreams, particularly.

It also seems that quite often the lower self can only tolerate a certain level of truth and honesty at the time, despite the efforts of the HS to improve that situation.

TraineeHuman

18th December 2012, 02:40

In my descriptions of several of my visits, I talked about some energies feeling like “solid rock” or “stone”. Let me explain that we all subconsciously create such thought-walls within ourselves to hide things from ourselves that we don’t want to look at. Every last one of us does it. Often this happens because a past incident – particularly during childhood or adolescence – was too painful, or too tough a challenge for us at the time.

We all have at least two selves: the subconscious/unconscious mind, and then the conscious mind and all it controls. As Jung pointed out, the subconscious mind also contains treasures. But from early childhood we have developed habits and identities of avoiding these.

When J. Krishnamurti was around ten, he wrote a diary of what he experienced at night. It seems he did not dream at all, but instead went into an “emptiness”, which was possibly the worlds of pure being which are 13D and above, or certainly at least he went to some formless world.

The fully, totally liberated human being won’t have any subconscious mind to speak of. That’s why I see OB travel as one important way to reclaim some of those treasure islands that are currently lost to us under the dark “sea” and “fog”.

Caren

18th December 2012, 17:10

Hello TraineeHuman,
I would like to share that early this morning I was meditating and trying to go OOB and for the first time I experienced the 'blue ring' you speak of. Hooray! I was excited and so pleased. My lower legs and body started to vibrate strongly and I felt my head and shoulders moving toward the blue ring but then everything stopped because being so amazed at actually seeing the blue ring, I forgot to 'relax with the vibrations' hahaha
As I mentioned previously all my OOBE's have been spontaneous (no blue ring, no vibrating) with one exception and in that experience I did vibrate but didn't see a blue ring. However, there was levitation and also visitors (beings). Levitating is quite a ride :)
Much love to all

TraineeHuman

18th December 2012, 23:39

...
I would like to share that early this morning I was meditating and trying to go OOB and for the first time I experienced the 'blue ring' you speak of. Hooray! I was excited and so pleased. My lower legs and body started to vibrate strongly and I felt my head and shoulders moving toward the blue ring but then everything stopped because being so amazed at actually seeing the blue ring, I forgot to 'relax with the vibrations' hahaha
As I mentioned previously all my OOBE's have been spontaneous (no blue ring, no vibrating) with one exception and in that experience I did vibrate but didn't see a blue ring. However, there was levitation and also visitors (beings). Levitating is quite a ride :)...

I usually don’t see the blue ring, and usually don’t feel the vibrations. Or else I see or feel them for a split second, because I’m too busy speeding by. I’m sorry, but the more I look at this the more I’m finding it impossible to believe that people have as few OB experiences as they believe they have.

In fact, my hypothesis is that everybody has plenty of conscious OB episodes every single night, at least while they are dreaming, but they simply don’t remember them in the morning. For one thing, if you wake somebody up during or just after a dream, for the first thirty seconds they can remember what was in their dream. So, how in the world do they become conscious of what was in their dream if they werent conscious of it at all while they were having it? Not through memory, since they werent conscious, so: how?

My hypothesis is that we have strong subconscious motives for telling ourselves that we don’t OB travel and that it’s extremely hard to do so. (When in fact it’s totally natural and simple.) Why? Because when you’re OB, even if it’s only in 4D, you get to see more of whatever you really don’t want to face about yourself at the time. As any psychologist can tell you, “don’t want to see” gets transformed into “can’t see” in less than the twinkling of an eye.

Maybe also our conditioning tries to tell us we’re not nearly as powerful as we find we are in 4D. In 4D, as soon as you think of any location or person, you travel there instantaneously, for instance.

Libico

19th December 2012, 06:55

TraineeHuman I'm curious - do you have complete dream recollection? I can only speak for myself, but often times as I wake up and have a pretty good idea of what went on in my dreams (at least the general order of things) but shortly after completely forget. It's really an interesting process to see how that happens too; I can sit up out of bed and recount in varying degrees of detail events that have happened, and as I leave the bedroom I feel like the details slip away from my memory - if I try to consciously hold on and relive the dream in my head it just slips away as if I am grasping at smoke. It's funny, because a few seconds later I can't even remember what I was thinking about sometimes! Almost like someone just partitioned the data/memory to somewhere I have no access to.

I've often thought something similar to your above hypothesis, where we are blocking it from ourselves but I feel like it is something else. I'm sure there are dark corners of myself that are hidden away in the recesses of my consciousness, but I think I am honest with myself, my thoughts, and my intentions, and would like to face and acknowledge any part of myself that is hidden. If that is what is stopping me from remembering my OB experiences, I find that hard to accept. Of course, I can admit the possibility of this outlook being teenager syndrome where I think I know everything (seems unlikely, but hey, anything is possible).

Then again, maybe this is the case and this learning process needs to be slow to help us get used to it slowly and over time (or whatever pace the individual needs) - so many maybes!

TraineeHuman

19th December 2012, 10:46

Libico, I agree that it’s an interesting question why people normally remember so little of their dreams. At times in the past I have kept a dream journal by my bed. Whenever I woke up after a dream, I’d immediately write down as much as I could remember. Sometimes I’d remember fragments of three dreams rather than only one. Gradually I was able to remember more and more. After a long time, I developed the skill of being able to replay some dreams in my mind, a little like watching a DVD, as they progressed on and on in a strange kind of narrative. I didn’t continue practicing that, and so lost that skill. Now I mostly just remember a small amount regarding my most recent dream, and that’s all.

Do you agree with me that the real meaning of all your dreams is basically a list of various major issues in your life this week that you don’t want to face? If so, then do you really face them all? If you don’t really and fully face them – all of them -- , how can you ever reliably know that failure to face them may or may not be because of reason X or reason Y?

Libico

19th December 2012, 11:09

I have kept a dream journal for a period of a few months - it was actual doing so that helped me significantly improve my dream memory, even to this today. It's also how I triggered my first lucid dream, and several more since which segued into me having my first OBE. Today I still have better dream recall even though I don't write them down as much (I usually only write dreams that lead to an OBE, as those experiences I always recall), but often remember details from dreams from weeks past that just fade over time (as 3D memories do too, so nothing unusual in that).

While I'm here I thought I'd ask about another topic that has intrigued me - the concept of lost or slowed down time. Many times I have put my head to nap or when attempting to fall asleep and I have dreams, half-asleep dreams, or even conversations/thoughts with myself that can easily last upwards of an hour. However, when I pick my head up I see only 15 minutes have passed. This can happen when I have a lengthy dream sequence, such as a recent experience when I put my head down for an hour and had a series of dreams that easily could have lasted 5 hours (I even woke up feeling like I had rested my eyes for many hours). It's also happened when I put my head down and am in the place between being awake and falling asleep, where I am still aware of lying in my bed and just drowsily thinking about any random train of thought - if I were to write down all the thoughts I had during this time and were to think them when I am awake it would easily occupy 30 minutes of my time, but only 5-7 minutes have passed when I pick my head up (I hope this makes sense!).

It's something that has always been interesting to me and never really asked about - maybe when the body is close to shut-down mode the mind goes into over-drive and time literally does slow down - would be very interested to hear opinions on this.

TraineeHuman

19th December 2012, 22:12

In response to some PMs, here’s more about psychic healing and OB skills. As best as I can tell, every time I perform any psychic healing I do most of it OB. In fact, as far as I understand there are two stages to psychic healing. Number one, go OB, while focusing completely on the client. Number two, do “nothing” and just let the “spirit” flow.

I’ve at times been able to do “miracle” healings since the age of seven (as the most skeptical of GPs have in some cases admitted), and have therefore known how to go OB since at least that age. But for me, it was just the first stage of what one did when one did a healing.

Still, that suggests to me that psychic healing is a natural second stage for anybody who has learnt / is learning to go OB.

So, here are more details about how I do psychic healing. I’ve already described the first stage. In the second stage, I kind of become nothing, in some sense of nothing – or, that is, I become a kind of a vessel. I take all attention away from myself and put it and keep it on the client, and on connecting them with “the flow”. And that’s all, pretty much. Yes, I do feel some kind of flow physical energy through my physical body, but I pop in and out of that occasionally just to kind of check that the physical energy is still coming out. Most of “the flow”, though, isn’t physical. Maybe a person needs to have reached a certain depth in doing meditation or whatever for the non-physical flow to work strongly, but that’s about it.

Why does this work so dramatically that it can sometimes cure terminal diseases? I don’t know, but here’s a guess. Because I’m being “nothing”, somehow I convey to the client some kind of “version” of Source or HS that’s different from the “version” they’re used to. With the “version” they’re used to, they already have it limited by their own filters. But since this is a different “version”, somehow it frees their capacity to unlock some of the gigantic power of Source or HS within them that actually was there all along.

I believe there are Christian fundamentalist groups that call themselves Shakers. As far as I know, they believe it’s necessary to get the shakes, to vibrate, before one’s healing powers get to work. I suspect the shakes are probably to do with getting OB.

Similarly, many shamans and traditional oracles seem to consider it necessary to go OB before they can receive the truth. The Society of Friends used to call themselves Quakers, no doubt for some similar reason.

I understand the Shakers also have rattlesnakes. I guess if you can actually learn to relax into the vibrations while holding a rattlesnake, you’ll have learnt how to concentrate powerfully. The only trouble is, when you go OB while holding a rattlesnake it probably won’t bite you because you’re so relaxed, but when you’re OB your physical coordination will be bad, and maybe the snakes bite because they’re being handled in a clumsy way.

I hope what I’ve mentioned about the connection between going OB and psychic healing is useful to people over the next few days. I’d like to encourage those members whom I’ve PMed to post anything interesting they may experience.

TraineeHuman

20th December 2012, 00:25

To "jump" OB, we know at least some people use an instruction to themselves like: "Clarity now!" or "Awaraeness!" or "Jump!" or "Sit up now!" I forgot to mention in the previous post that I use focusing on the other person in probably a very similar way, and it seems to work.

It feels as if I agree to not have an identity or personality of my own, as far as possible of course. So in some sense I become "one with" the other person. And that's enough to get the "jump out" to work every time.

TraineeHuman

20th December 2012, 09:23

One day I’ll wish
Upon a star,
And wake up where
The clouds are far
Behind me…

Then, provided you’re psychically protecting yourself properly – which is much like holding on to a feeling of liking yourself, or of liking the fact that you are alive --, I can promise you won’t encounter any nasties, so you can say:

Where troubles melt
Like lemon drops,
Away above
The chim’ney tops,
That’s where
You’ll find me.

Somewhere over the rainbow,
Way
up
high,
There’s a land
That I heard of
Once in a lullaby.

Somewhere over the rainbow,
Skies are blue,
And the dreams
That you care to dream
Really do come true.

If happy little bluebirds fly
Beyond the rainbow,
Why, oh why
Can’t I?

Having sung this song, Dorothy soon got transported out of Kansas by a cyclone. I understand the film was shortened from the original script, which was full of esoteric references and truths. I’m sure Dorothy didn’t leave Kansas just by clicking her heels together three times, because she left OB. However, as anybody who’s expert in q’i gong or t’ai chi or acupuncture can probably tell you, stamping your heels down (not while wearing high heels) is a powerful way of grounding yourself quickly. And in order to click her heels together strongly three times, Dorothy would have needed to stamp them down in between the clicks. (Try it and you’ll see what I mean.)

Anyway, I look forward to seeing some of you well and truly “over the rainbow” this weekend.

TraineeHuman

20th December 2012, 14:05

I guess the whole point of OBEs is to transcend the body. This means, for a short time, transcending all sorts of limitations.

It also means discovering and experiencing that who you really, truly are is mind-blowing huge and powerful.

In fact, that not only is your skin not the border of “you”, but taken to the ultimate it means discovering that you in your truest nature are as big and deep as the multiverse, or, if you like, that you in your kind of hidden but true nature are God. Also that the true you is universal, present in every multiverse. And it’s a matter of deeply realizing and experiencing and imbibing this without losing any sanity.

This, of course – once it becomes permanent in your consciousness --, is traditionally referred to as spiritual enlightenment, or sometimes as Samadhi, and various other terms. These days I prefer instead to talk about freedom from unhappiness. But to be candid, I did experience what I consider to be (the lowest level of) spiritual enlightenment at the age of sixteen. It has certainly been the most vivid and unforgettable and certain experience of my life so far. It was also part and parcel with a total psychological death and rebirth.

I’ve described some details of how I got there in post #103 (in p.6) of the “Breatharianism …” thread. As far as I’m aware, the most common way to get there (whoops – I mean to the true “here”) seems to be through meditation. I’ve met quite a few people who got there through meditation – and I guess a few who believed they’d gotten there but obviously hadn’t. But it’s often decades of very intense work, for nearly everybody. And even then there’s no guarantee of success.

One of the things that happen as an aftermath is that all sorts of talents and power get released within you, so how in the world do you learn to use all that wisely? Then again, part of the realization is the discovery that reality, in its truest nature, is unbelievably benevolent and positive. And that whereas the physical world we live in is an illusion, in the reality behind that illusion there is no evil, but only goodness. So, one tends to use one’s many big freshly uncovered talents for positive ends, and not to harm others.

In a way it’s a bit like the “Bewitched” program that used to be on TV. Much as Samantha and her daughter and all her relatives except her mortal husband have special powers but to them it’s an everyday reality, imagine a world where everybody knows and always remembers that in their deeper self they are immortal and universal.

I guess if you want that, it wouldn’t hurt to meditate a fair bit during the coming three day period. I do remember that at one stage I was using a mantra to meditate and within a week (that’s many hours’ worth) I found my horizon of awareness seemed to keep expanding and expanding until it seemed like it was infinite, or at least indefinitely large and beyond the horizon my eyes could see in any direction.

Chester

20th December 2012, 14:05

WoW! I actually hung out with Brad Pitt last night "OBE" - he is super cool. Was one of my coolest ventures so far. Love to All... Chester

Also, I have to mention I just made a post in relation to "synchronicity" that I hope no one minds I reference to here - it really does tie into these OBE experiences -

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53363-Let-s-look-at-synchronicity--again-&p=602491#post602491

TraineeHuman

21st December 2012, 00:57

... another topic that has intrigued me - the concept of lost or slowed down time. Many times I have put my head to nap or when attempting to fall asleep and I have dreams, half-asleep dreams, or even conversations/thoughts with myself that can easily last upwards of an hour. However, when I pick my head up I see only 15 minutes have passed. This can happen when I have a lengthy dream sequence, such as a recent experience when I put my head down for an hour and had a series of dreams that easily could have lasted 5 hours (I even woke up feeling like I had rested my eyes for many hours). It's also happened when I put my head down and am in the place between being awake and falling asleep, where I am still aware of lying in my bed and just drowsily thinking about any random train of thought - if I were to write down all the thoughts I had during this time and were to think them when I am awake it would easily occupy 30 minutes of my time, but only 5-7 minutes have passed when I pick my head up (I hope this makes sense!).

It's something that has always been interesting to me and never really asked about - maybe when the body is close to shut-down mode the mind goes into over-drive and time literally does slow down - would be very interested to hear opinions on this.

Certainly if you go OB you can experience being beyond time altogether – that’s time as we think we know it. You can also, knowingly or unknowingly, play with your experience of time as we know it.

The interesting thing is that time as we think we know it is subservient to something greater. Hence we have synchronicity, lost time, slowed down time, and so on.

Barry Long used to say that certain things matter, but they’re not at all important. This was a pun on the word “matter”. It “matters” to have sufficient income to survive reasonably and into the future. But making money in itself isn’t important. Time itself matters, but what’s important – and the only thing that makes it important -- is of course the quality of what we bring in to our allotted days. So, it’s not actually your time that’s so precious.

Steve Taylor wrote a book published about two years ago. I think it was called Time. It explores some of these issues, and their connection to spirituality.

Steve's email address is info@consciousportal.co.uk

TraineeHuman

22nd December 2012, 03:36

Chester

22nd December 2012, 03:47

This is already feeling coooool man.... just cooooool. I will be there tomorrow at 4 PM Costa Rica time.

WoW! I just saw your next post and I started to try and answer and wrote over a 5 page document on MS Word... hahah. I don't feel its right to post here. Its a book and I rambled too.

I want to answer your questions TraineeHuman and I feel I can, but I think its best I do it in the morning when I am at my clearest and freshest.

Love to All, Chester -

oh and I see it almost the 22nd! Guess we "made it over the hump"?

Chester

22nd December 2012, 05:44

WoW! I actually hung out with Brad Pitt last night "OBE" - he is super cool. Was one of my coolest ventures so far. ...

It would be extremely interesting, Chester, if not useful, if you’re able to describe exactly how you manage to hang out with famous people. I do know you have some special abilities. "Normal" people generally manage to mainly visit their friends in their dreams, plus others with whom they are interacting with extensively, such as co-workers and bosses, and probably some other Forum members.

I take it you haven't worked on Dubya's staff,and likewise you haven't worked in movie production or PR with Brad. So, how do you manage to get them interested enough in you to want to spend precious OB time at night just hanging out with you? There must be thousands every night trying hard to do the same. How do you get to the front of the queue?

Any insights into how you developed this remarkable ability would be greatly appreciated by many of us. How do you even tell for sure that you're interacting with those individuals in such a detailed way? Can you give us any details of specific interactions with them? Any details you can come up with would be great.

I do know that when I began to go OB travelling extensively back in my mid-twenties, I noticed that quite a few individuals, both living and dead, tried to follow me around in the astral world. That was simply because I had/was a very bright light -- as you no doubt are also. At that time I resolved to discourage others from following me at least in that way. Unfortunately, many people want to follow anybody who to them seems to sound or look wise or expert. They feel they can then offload responsibility for their choices onto somebody else.

So, what can you tell us about your secret? How do you get in? What if dozens of Avalonians could visit both Bushes OB and gently persuade them to reflect on certain viewpoints?

ahhh what the heck - I hope you folks don't think I am a bad guy or that I am nuts - here goes - unedited too... will clean up errors in the morning

Wow, I just read your next post, Trainee Human, and so I will reply straight from my first thoughts...

I just deleted the book I started to write –

OK I will tell you what I think the secret is... I have worked in an industry that has taken me many places on earth where I have met the most unusual people you might ever imagine meeting where most had one thing in common... they are low profile types - stayed mostly in the shadows. In part low key due to the natures of the various businesses they have dabbled in, but the biggest reason is that they aren’t interested in public recognition.

For example, I met a man that was the equivalent to a top CIA type guy yet the country he was affiliated with was in Asia. I prefer not to mention detail out of respect, but this man was the real deal. It is not important why our association came about but, for example, in honor of our relationship he gave me a knife. The knife was a US Military knife he had come upon that he told me was used in the Iraq 1 war. He told me (only when I asked him) that, yes, he had used the knife in the course of his business ventures to kill men. I asked him how many and he told me easily over 100. And that was just with this one knife.

I am not saying I condone what he did, but I will be honest, I also don't judge him. I don't judge any Spirit being for that matter - at all, for any reason, ever... with no exceptions. I used to not be this when when I was younger, but this is the true, honest truth about me now. It is an amazingly free feeling not to be consumed by judgement... I did not "learn" this trait. I grew into the ability to understand and empathize... dropping the judgement/forgiveness "game" was a natural result understanding.

My point is that I have met dozens of amazing folks... every bit as amazing as some who have become famous via politics or the movies, etc. and so I just always had this sense about myself that if I were fortunate to have met various famous folks (and I have had lucky circumstances where I met and got to converse with famous folks) that I would be able to have good conversations with them... that I would hold my own so to speak in the conversation. I think that’s the secret. I see them as soul mates... as just another like you and me.

I can still recall vividly one of the dreams I had with George W. Bush (and I had at least 5 or 6 extremely vivid dreams with him)... The dreams were progressive as if each dream left off with regards to my my self-confidence where in the next dream I had more. First, also, I can share with you something uncanny about all these dreams. I was always on the person’s left at about a 45 degree angle from the direction they were facing all the way up to about a 75 or 80 degree angle. I seemed always to be about 5 or so feet up to 15 feet away from the person in all cases. Also the scenario was always a group setting, like the atmosphere of a small press conference with all the Presidents.

When I was in high school and the early 70s, I was liberal. I remember in the 80s strangely becoming a conservative (thus a Republican) and was strongly for George H. W. Bush in the 1992 election (the only time I ever voted in my life) and he lost to Bill Clinton. And I hated Clinton’s guts mostly because he had such brazen self confidence (clearly my own ego was my issue haha). But then I had a Clinton dream and I recall when I awoke from it feeling like, “wow... I actually like this guy.” And I had maybe two more Clinton dreams and ended up hating myself because I liked him which conflicted with the fact I was a staunch Republican/conservative! This was before I began to wake up by the way.

Well, since I was from Dallas, I recall when “W” was the managing partner of the Texas Rangers and I really enjoyed seeing him at the games all the time and I remember thinking what a good life he had and all as I loved sports. Then he became Texas Governor and I was happy for him and Texas as I hated Ann Richards (the former governor).

Well then my “career” started taking off and I hardly paid attention to politics, but then the next thing I knew, “W” was running for President and my heart wanted him to win. I still hadn’t woke up yet by the way. Anyway he won. And... well, in 2001 I had a personal complete meltdown – Book of Job type total destruction of my whole, entire life. At the very end of the meltdown, I started hearing a clear, military sounding voice in my head that told me America was about to experience a major military event and I had to be there when it happened.

I have posted the complete story in Avalon in the past, but this was truly a full blown voice in my head that essentially screamed at me and treated me like a soldier and hounded me from about early/mid August 2001 until early September, 2001.

I arrived back in America (Texas) on Sept 6th – I had been sent to America for “rehab” in part because I was telling all my friends and business associates about this voice in my head and what it was telling me. They thought I was nuts, that it was the fault of drugs, etc. Note, I had not stepped foot in America in 3 years and also had realistic concerns they actually might arrest me if I did go there – yet I went anyway and got there 5 days before 9/11 – go figure. Note also, when I went back home to Curacao, the folks there saw me in a different light but it wasn’t the light of, WoW, dude... you were actually right after all and perhaps we owe you an apology – instead I was greeted mostly with fear and shunning as if I was possesed or was some sort of evil nostradamus thingie. They were mostly afraid of me.

Now though, I know I was just battling one of those Horus-Ra entities, so it is no big deal anymore, but then I was thinking it was “God” telling me that sorta stuff.

So I guess what I am saying is that when you have spent many years of your life targeted by a Horus-Ra entity (pretending to be “God”), you lose your fears about meeting or talking with anyone.

Back to the “W” dreams – in the early dreams I was just there. In one of the later dreams he actually looked at me directly while he was speaking which I recall thinking was really cool. Then finally in my last “W” dream, it was a smaller, more intimate setting... like we were sitting at a table it seems and he actually addressed me directly as if wanting my input. I felt just like Harrison Ford when he was in that movie Clear and Present Danger when he found himself (just a CIA analyst) at a briefing for the President and just like him when he blurted something out in the meeting after being advised to keep his mouth shut by the then DCI (Director of Central Intelligence), Harrison Ford couldn’t keep his mouth shut. My point is that I am like that character, i am not overwhelmed by anyone and I feel I can contribute and have this effervescence that i can’t control (in my dreams as well as real life).

I mean when you have been thinking you are hearing the voice of “God” for most of your life, clearly you get a sense of yourself you are able to hold your own with just about anyone, anywhere. And just because (and thankfully so) I discovered it was nothing more than some pesky other dimensional entity that was messing with me since I was 6 years old, doesn’t mean I unlearned all my self confidence. It is why I have no regrets about my experience (but I am drifting off subject).

I recall when Obama became President and after a good two years or so I never had a dream with him and I also hated his guts. By this time I had awoken to all the conspiracy stuff and was in the midst of my own investigations of several matters, especially as to who/what was this primary voice in my head. Well, the night came I had a vivid Obama dream and after that night I started to like him. And funny thing is that about 2 months before the last election, I completely shifted on who I hoped would be President... I swung hard to Obama. And now I really like him a lot... for a President I mean.

I was glad I had that vivid experience with Obama too because I am for humanity and not political at all. The main reason i wanted Obama is because I prefer socialism over fascism. I mean, there is really a fine line between the two in one sense (the cabal is still the cabal) but on the other hand, socialism seems far less draconian. I think George H. W. Bush endorsed Romney knowing he would be a sure loser to Obama. That’s just the way patriots like that work. It’s not about party, its about the bigger picture.

Hillary on the other hand is, in my opinion, a true queen type. I mean, hey... don’t get me wrong, I am speaking about politicians, but the fact is someone has to get those acting jobs and she is a pure, natural. I love her a lot and you gotta hand it to her... any woman who can live with Bill, the dog (woof, woof) has to be one hell of a woman, yes?

So anyways, Brad Pitt again... Remember the movie, Spy Games? That was my favorite Brad Pitt movie of all because he played the person I always had wished I could be. The best role anyone could ever have in my opinion... the role of a CIA contractor. Far better than an agent because its far more dangerous to be a contractor. Because if it makes better sense for the CIA to cut you loose or abandon you are trade you or kill you, then that will be your fate. Being an official agent would be restricted by all sorts of rules and regulations stuff too, so that would be extremely confining (YUK!). Plus all sorts of reports and things to write up and well, you get pulled here and there with probably far less say about it than a contractor who could pick and choose what jobs one might want to take.

Now understand, all of what I was saying above was based on my old paradigm of good guys and bad guys...with the CIA always being the good guys and all... I left that world of view point long ago... so why then suddenly the strangest of encounters with Brad Pitt? Three nights or so back I decided to try and find what might be the last few Brad Pitt movies as I was bored. I searched and came upon Killing Them Softly – and I started to watch and realized it was about some real lost soul low level mafioso types and so i turned it off – just not interesting to me. But I thought about him and Angelina Jolie too – and a lot. I think she is an outstanding person and I am very glad they ended up as a couple. Both just super outstanding folks is the energies I get about them both. Really good souls.

And well, his role as Joe Black in Meet Joe Black was simply fantastic... and what a role to play? The Angel of Death deciding "it" would experience for a few days what it might be like to be a human being - perfect.

Brad (unless he has changed) doesn’t believe in “God” in the sense of God being some external grand being – a view I now share with him. He also (unless he has changed) loves good weed. Something I also love but that I cannot partake of because when I do, that Horus-Ra entity is able to manipulate me dangerously and I won’t go down that road again this lifetime. It almost caused me to kill myself the last time.

So anyways, in the dream I had with Brad Pitt he was sitting at a table and I think I was sitting too. It was circular and well, I was on his far left at about 75 to 80 degrees from the direction he was facing. There was table conversation going on between the other folks who were there and suddenly (and I cannot recall the words) but someone said something where I was then able to make a joke that involved marijuana and I did so in the context of Brad Pitt using his name in my comment and looking at him while I said my joke. And I recall he didn’t look at me directly but he heard the joke and I could see him smile and almost chuckled which made me feel good.

That was the key part of the dream. It was like I broke the ice with him there. I am sure if we meet again, the contact will go further. It always has in these types of vivid dream encounters. I have a photographic recall of this... just as I have of my last “W” dream where he actually specifically addressed me, where I received his specific attention and my response was expected by him, was received by him and was considered valued. That was huge for me I recall. It was like, Yes, I can be helpful for our world in a proactive way up in the real big leagues.

There ya go, sorry I wrote so much... Love to All, Chester

¤=[Post Update]=¤

If you think it is appropriate, I could share some pretty incredible George W. Bush synchronicity experiences I have actually documented but maybe if you are interested, I do so in a separate thread and just link it here? Its pretty freaky (and documented, thus verifiable) stuff.

TraineeHuman

22nd December 2012, 07:36

Thank you very much, Justoneman. I can see how in your own way you’ve had a similar life history to Bush Jr.

You both learnt to be non-judgmental even in the company of very ruthless people, and in past years you both were seriously used by powerful negative forces.

I guess a great actor like Brad – or Angelina -- needs to be non-judgmental in certain ways, and also needs to be so flexible that they understand all the shades of the human heart, and to be able to play the blackest of human beings convincingly. So, it makes sense.

Now that I think about it, a major principle that applies at all levels of OB reality is that like attracts like. Though that’s also, as I’ve said, a good reason to ensure you go out there with psychic protection, and even ideally that you first face your dark side fully, as much as you can.

Maybe, ironically, both you and W. could have already completed a considerable part of such self-facing (though no doubt we would need to see W. start to behave differently in some areas). The reason why the Prodigal Son was worth more than ninety-nine of his brothers was that he went out and learnt what it really means to become good. The ninety-nine brothers no doubt behaved morally throughout, but they repressed all their negativity instead of making any attempt to understand it. That negativity will all come bursting through the seams sooner or later -- maybe in a future lifetime, in addition to trickling through in their present lifetime.

As far as the details in some dreams and their synchronicity is concerned, I guess descriptions of your dreams – with little or no explanation – would be quite relevant and very welcome in this thread, and may well be very interesting indeed, if you remember them in detail and are willing to share.

Chester

22nd December 2012, 13:39

Hi - I went totally nuts with a post here and realized it was just tooooo much, so here's the link to it - I have a bad habit of sometimes taking things over and this thread needs to remain On Track, especially with our "Astral Meetup" later today!! haha

so here's the lovely link -

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53455-Solsticitis

and here's a video that I do feel belongs here -

LniY0pDQGaE

Queensryche - Silent Lucidity

Hush now don't you cry
Wipe away the teardrop from your eye

You're lying safe in bed
It was all a bad dream
Spinning in your head

Your mind tricked you to feel the pain
Of someone close to you leaving the game
Of life

So here it is, another chance
Wide awake, you face the day
Your dream is over...

Or has it just begun?

There's a place I like to hide
A doorway that I run through in the night

Relax child, you were there
But only didn't realize
And you were scared

It's a place where you will learn
To face your fears, retrace the years
And ride the whims of your mind

Commanding in another world
Suddenly, you'll hear and see
This magic new dimension

I
Will be watching over you
I am gonna help you see it through
I
Will protect you in the night
I am smiling next to you

In silent lucidity...

(Solo)

Spoken:
Visualize your dream (Yes)
Record it in the present tense (Don't be scared)
Put it into a permanent form
If you persist in your efforts
You can achieve a dream control
(Control)
(How're you doing today?) (Better?)

Dream come true
Dream come true
Dream come true

Help me...

If you open your mind for me
You won't rely on open eyes to see

The walls you built within
Come tumbling down
And a new world will begin

Living twice at once you learn
You're safe from pain in the dream domain
A soul set free to fly

A round trip journey in your head
Master of illusion, can you realize?
Your dream's alive, you can be the guide but...

I
Will be watching over you
I am gonna help you see it through
I
Will protect you in the night
I am smiling next to you...

Love to ALL and have a great 22nd of December, 2012

Chester

22nd December 2012, 13:51

and then there is when we begin to experience within the waking dream... stuff we think can only happen in the dream state... stuff that actually begins to happen in our waking state.

where there's a bridge between the two realms.

where synchronicities arise and where all the psi phenomena takes place.

on that bridge.

in some ways I do not see "me" as ever "out of body" - I see me as simply anchored into different experiential realms - one being what we call the dream state and the other we call this waking state.

what I want to build a bridge to is that deep sleep state when I am not even dreaming.

where am I then?

is that perhaps my actual home (like when water is vapor and not held down by gravity?)

and the dream state a fluid state (like the water I drink?)

and the waking state the solid state (like ice?)

in those three realms is the complete me

I want to explore the realm prior to the realms - the unmanifest... where I believe my true home resides.... is that perhaps what you experienced about me where you said I was trying to drill through solid rock?? haha, My Mom always labeled me the most hard headed person she ever met.

TraineeHuman

22nd December 2012, 22:48

I had invited seven members to meet with me a little under an hour ago today for a group exercise. The first two minutes of the exercise had been planned to be a greeting of one another, followed by each of us, for ten minutes or more, individually sending light and healing to the people whom we most influence in each of our lives.

I guess not surprisingly, in retrospect, what it seemed to turn into was some kind of joint healing and light-sending done mainly as a group. What I experienced was something quite stunningly beautiful visually speaking. The healing was sent to each member of the group in addition to the people in each individual’s life.

What I experienced was as follows. And please, folks, don’t take anything personally, because that’s just ego. I initially went into 4D but close enough to 3D that I could see I was a few miles up, which was only slightly scarey since I’d been here before. One person – I know who -- was effortlessly flying around and eager to try to help others get somewhere higher. Another person – I know who -- kept creating an image that they were there as a kind of fly on the wall only, though that fly was right near the top of that wall, and the wall itself was certainly in the 4D world. A third person – I also know who – was kind of the joker or jester and was extrovertedly interacting with everybody all the time.

Then there was a beautiful “aurora” of mostly violet light but also many colors. I know violet light as the kind of light that removes energies (especially “hitchhiker” energies) from 3D into higher places. What I saw was an incredible interplay of shapes (such as cubes in 4D) and waves in those colors. After about two minutes this was joined by a considerable amount of golden light from 15D – which is what I (claim I) use in psychic healing. The amazing dynamic patterns continued for eleven minutes, but now were predominantly golden, though with other colors still present as well. I also saw some beings from a much higher dimension who were providing much of the golden light, or assisting in its distribution in some way. That gives me serious hope that some serious healing may have taken place.

After eleven minutes, most of this died away. At that point the joker individual insisted that we look at it all a different way, and somehow managed to turn the whole scene on its side, so that now what had been “higher” was no longer so.

As an exercise in encountering others OB the exercise seems to have been a disappointment for a number who took part. As a healing exercise that brought in quite unexpected help from some very "high" and powerful benevolent beings, I suspect it was a considerable success. But I'll wait to see if there were tangible healing results.

Anyway, that was my experience.

Libico

23rd December 2012, 12:57

I took part in the exercise and thought I'd share my experience. I should state that I've always had a difficult time meditating as I find it hard to turn my mind "off" and let things lie. I sat down 15 minutes before the designated time to give myself enough time to get ready for this.

Strangely enough I did feel more at ease than I ever have when meditating as we approached the meeting time, though I still had rogue thoughts bouncing around my head. I will admit I did put a strong focus on trying to go OB and meet others but when I realized that it likely wasn't going to happen I realized that maybe my 4D/5D self was meeting with everyone but I was with my 3D here so I asked that I be allowed to experience and remember what happened.

Something interesting though - at around 5-10 minutes passed the designated meeting time (I had been meditating for around 20 minutes at this point), I heard a very slight humming from in my head. It wasn't like the vibrations that I get when close to going OBE, but something very very faint. As this was going on I saw what I could only describe as waves of light-bluish light passing before my eyes going. It almost reminded me of the full body scanners you see in futuristic movies where a bluish light passes by the body from top to bottom. While this was going on I tried to will myself to go out of body but with no success. After 1-2 minutes the lights stopped but I continued to meditate for 10 more minutes.

I wouldn't chalk it up to be a disappointment (especially not after reading what TH experienced), but I did have hopes to meet and greet some of you.

Chester

23rd December 2012, 15:56

The best laid plans of mice and men and humans like us who become open to "training."

I wanted to "be there" but instead, I got pulled into tasks at "the day job" and well... wasn't able to attend BUT... I actually think "i" was there afterall.

Why? Because at exactly 18 minutes after the hour I suddenly took pause and recognized the most interesting calming wave of... energyless energy and I just know it was you folks! hahaha so I said Hello and Love to you All and then went back to my tasks.

What I took away from this was that I am more convinced than ever that "we" are always in all dimensions, all realities simultaneously... it is where "we" point our focus as to what segment of the eternal dream scape "we" perceive we are experiencing.

I realize now, "i" was there yesterday while "I" was engrossed in mundane tasks related to my "day job."

I now know - "i" am always ever everywhere...

Love to You All, Chester

TraineeHuman

24th December 2012, 11:57

Deneon has asked me for comments about what he describes in his recent posts in the The Secret of the Soul thread (posts #65 and #67 there). Deneon asks some great questions, so I’d like to respond to some of his questions here.

One piece of up front disclosure about my biases first. I guess after I had learnt to astral travel regularly at nights for a few years, my “astral travel” balloon got pricked somewhat because I had a spiritual teacher and psychotherapist who insisted that the only OB travel I would do, if I was at all smart and well-informed, would never involve using some kind of “astral body” or “higher body” to travel in. Some years later I would understand that basically he was ever so right on this point, and why. So, that’s part of the reason why I feel I wouldn’t be faithful to any reader without at least trying to give them constant hints of why travel without any “body” is better and is also eventually do-able for every one of you.

One general comment I would make about Deneon is that this – OB travel -- is something that he obviously has a true passion for. When just looking at or thinking about a subject brings up such a great well of energy inside you that you can’t even sleep, that’s what I call a true passion. It’s always invariably something you have a great talent for and were meant to do, extremely well. It would be great if everybody could find such a level of passion for this particular subject, because it’s so important. Also because it takes months or years of work to master this.

Secondly, this Deneon guy can actually feel lots of energy in his feet and throughout his legs. That’s impressive, because the great majority of people can’t. Moreover, my private benchmark for whether or not somebody is a natural psychic healer is whether or not they can feel at least some tiny trickle of life energy flowing out of their feet, at least when they attempt to do some psychic healing. My second benchmark is can they feel the faintest shiver along their spine in such a situation? Again, not a problem for this guy. So, Deneon, you already naturally happen to have certain energies and skills released inside you which take you well out of the “beginner” box in my book. By the way, Deneon, whyever order a blood test when you’re more truly normal or natural than most?

Next, one idea I’d like to throw in here is something invented by the late Barry Long. (Eckhart Tolle and I were both at some stage students of Barry. Tolle uses the same concept, as far as I’ve read with essentially the same meaning.) I’m referring to “the inner body”. One way Barry described this was to say you can think of it as everything that’s inside you. And that when you die, the shape of all everything you can feel inside you stays exactly the same, and that’s exactly what lives on.

The point here is that “the inner body” is the same exact thing as the astral body, pretty much. Only, Barry emphasized how it’s “inside”. That’s one reason why I claim you don’t necessarily need to have “the vibrations” in order to jump OB. Instead, if you can get fully in touch with your true feelings, and with your intuitive instincts, I claim that’s another doorway to the same place. I hope this isn’t confusing the hell out of some people. But what I’m saying is that any way you can get much more real about who and what you really, truly are will get you to the OB place. You are an infinite being – or Being itself, or something even beyond that – playing hide-and-seek with itself and fooling itself into playing small. You extend far beyond your body, to far beyond the most distant star, to beyond eternity. Just be very honest about yourself – like Chester (Justoneman) has recently demonstrated how to be – and bingo! you’re well over halfway there, no vibrations included. I literally don’t often use those vibrations at all. Sometimes I just barely notice them faintly, for a couple of seconds, as I whiz on further. (Not that I’m necessarily an expert on what the problems are that other people may have in learning a different way than mine.)

Incidentally, the 4D or 5D world may or may not look anything like the physical world we know. Many people – living and dead – find it convenient to create pictures of grass and trees and so forth, but they’re pictures, and not the real thing. You can also “fly” low enough in 4D that you see the physical world, but you also see energy fields around everything that has life, and you see some rather different colors for many things. You also see beings or energies that you won’t find in the physical world.

Or, you may see scenery and energies that look nothing like the physical world. I’m sure we’ve all seen at least a glimpse of these in some nightmare we had some time when we were ill.

Next, Deneon, it sounds to me like the tingling sensation you feel probably is indeed precisely “the vibrations”. It’s not such a big deal. It’s your life-energy moving through you. You just need to get comfortable with using energy more powerfully and still feeling OK about it and not like you’ve gone bananas. The more practice you can get at this the better.

You can also bring life-energy sensations on by doing something like walking q’i gong, or probably through learning how to do t’ai chi.

As far as I understand, while you’re OB your physical body still feels things. It doesn’t get totally blanked out. (Until the day when you die, your consciousness isn’t going to let go of looking after that physical body, even if it directs lots of its attention elsewhere when you’re OB.) That’s why I suspect when you experienced becoming a giant you actually were either flipping in and out or you were OB for most of that time.

I’ll pause here, Deneon, to give Jake a chance to reply to your further comments before I continue with mine.

AwakeInADream

24th December 2012, 17:43

TraineeHuman

24th December 2012, 21:09

I was wondering has anyone had a partial OBE?

The most I've ever managed from the waking state was to get my hands out.
I spent about an hour joyously clapping together my see though spirit hands over my head,
fascinated by the fact that I could hear the sound of them clapping.

I managed to get to this stage three times in the same night after reading 'Astral Dynamics'(I think it was that),
and using the technique of trying to wiggle my finger without using any muscles.
That was a while back now and I've had no luck since then. I will try and try again.

My reasons are spiritual since I feel that this would be the easiest way to meet my guide.
I did call out for my guide in the partial state but nobody came.
...

I'm glad to hear that you've tried the exercise a few hundred times. You need to keep practising further still.

In post #10 I described an exercise which every member can successfully do and get results from on their first attempt. But so far there's been absolutely no feedback or comment. Has anybody been doing it? It was designed to give people certain skills and insights that should make it easier for you to do OB travel (with no fear).

Again, in post #24 I described an exercise which everybody can learn to do on their first try (though you do need to be patient and keep your mind still for the full 30 seconds). Again, no feedback so far, from anyone. This exercise teaches you, among other things, how to begin to interpret your dreams. Interpreting your dreams correctly is much more important than just remembering them. Has anybody out there been practising that exercise?

AwakeInADream

24th December 2012, 21:44

I've tried the one where you said to make your hands and neck rubbery and I did have a lucid dream a few nights later. I posted about it in the 'Here and Now' thread, I will quote myself on it:

The veil really is thinning!

I had possibly the second best dream I've ever had last night (nothing will ever beat the tri-une light of God dream), lucid and fully conscious.

After spending some time zooming about looking at stuff, hearing a helicopter up above and going up to take a closer look (how exciting), I ended up meeting my Dad who has been passed on for quite some time now. I've seen him before in dreams but never like this, in full technicolor with a speaking role. It was really him! I got to tell him I loved him and give him a hug, and also resolved some old issues (we didn't part on the best of terms). I feel renewed now psychologically, like a great weight has been lifted.

What a great gift to receive at such a magical and transformational time!

I think you helped to make this happen, so thank you!:)

I will go back now and read the posts you mentioned.

EDIT: Ah yes! Post#10, that's the one. I saw myself in sandals at the end.
I will keep trying that one.

AwakeInADream

24th December 2012, 22:11

TraineeHuman

25th December 2012, 03:39

I took part in the exercise and thought I'd share my experience. ... I will admit I did put a strong focus on trying to go OB and meet others but when I realized that it likely wasn't going to happen I realized that maybe my 4D/5D self was meeting with everyone but I was with my 3D here so I asked that I be allowed to experience and remember what happened.

Something interesting though - at around 5-10 minutes passed the designated meeting time (I had been meditating for around 20 minutes at this point), I heard a very slight humming from in my head. It wasn't like the vibrations that I get when close to going OBE, but something very very faint. As this was going on I saw what I could only describe as waves of light-bluish light passing before my eyes going... While this was going on I tried to will myself to go out of body but with no success. After 1-2 minutes the lights stopped ...
Having read Libico’s and Justoneman’s accounts of what they experienced during the group exercise, I’m left with some big questions.

I happen to know beyond what I consider any reasonable doubt that both Libico and Justoneman were present during the exercise in an OB form, and both quite actively so. I guess if a person has been dreaming, if they wake up just after then they’ll know for sure that they were just recently in a dreamworld. But to me, this seems to prove that people also spend considerable OB time that doesn’t involve dreaming. It’s looking to me like no dreaming/daydreaming = no memory of what may have happened OB.

I find it hard not to conclude that we have higher, OB parts of ourselves that to some degree are leading separate lives from us. I'm led to wonder whether these higher "versions of us" are even interested in sharing their experiences with us, beyond attempting to warn us about the biggest current issues in our lives. As far as I understand, such warnings are mostly conveyed to us through dreams, plus some things like omens. Incidentally, this would be one explanation of why synchronicity occurs. Synchronicity might just be phenomena which some higher version of us decides to share with the 3D us.

AwakeInADream

25th December 2012, 03:54

That would explain why within the dream state you can have a most profound knowledge and understanding about something like the nature of God for instance,
and then upon waking forget what you absolutely knew for sure, because what your higher self knows doesn't filter through into your everyday consciousness.

Is the spiritual path not about integrating these different parts of the self, so that you may become consciously, what you already are at a higher level?

TraineeHuman

25th December 2012, 03:58

Wow! I've just tried the exercise in post #24, and something strange happened.

I'm used to feeling my 3rd eye tingling just above the eyebrows, but just then trying to access 5D for the answer to my question, I felt a tingling right at the top of my forehead, just under my hairline.

Is that a different Chakra? Or do they move?

Anyway, I asked "Is there a specific frequency of sound that can help me to have an OBE?", and the answer I got was the Ying Yang symbol, which I don't often think about so it came as a surprise.
http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4920757713569807&pid=15.1

I think your first question is a bit of a side-issue. However, what I would see as important is the fact that subtle energy is flowing out of and into your head, indicating that your pineal gland is activated and at work. Both the third eye area and the crown chakra are good places for you to be feeling such energy at work.

The answer you got to your second question suggests to me that Robert Monroe's "Hemi-synch" sound technology may indeed work to help people learn to astral travel. As I understand it, "Hemi-synch" involves "putting the two hemispheres of the brain slightly out of synch with each other, thereby forcing both of them to be active." I'm putting stuff in snigger-quotes because I believe a lot of the talk of the split-brain is greatly oversimplified. But the idea is, the vast majority of people get conditioned and educated and dumbed down into only using the analytical-"rational" "side" of their brain, as distinct from the intuitive. And once they're using both, bingo!, OB travel becomes easy and natural. Obviously, something like that is what your yin-yang symbol is indicating.

But to me, it's a matter of being well-rounded as a being, in more senses than just being able to simultaneously hold both the analytical and the intuitive mode of viewing things.

AwakeInADream

25th December 2012, 04:10

By some amazing coincidence/synchronicity I have just within the last couple of hours been reading Jakes Ebook 'The Book of Jacob',
in which he talks about Robert Monroe's "Hemi-synch" sound technology, which was the first time I'd heard about it.
The meaning of the Ying Yang symbol was made clear to me then, and now you've just confirmed it for me. That's pretty amazing!

So I really do have access to my 5D self! Thank you TraineeHuman!:)

Eram

25th December 2012, 08:29

TraineeHuman

26th December 2012, 05:21

An astral self living separately from, or somehow in parallel with, your own life? Could that even be possible?

And why do many writers refer to the astral body as “the etheric double”? What do they know? Why do they use a term that implies the astral body is in some sense a twin of your physical body but separate from it?

I suspect many courses on how to astral travel are based on the assumption that astral travel occurs only in or on the edges of dreams; and that in some way it is nothing more than dreaming that has been made lucid (which presumably means: converted from unconscious to conscious -- and meanwhile your physical body is lying unconscious in bed! so, in what sense of "conscious" are we talking about?)

However, as I have mentioned earlier, I have plenty of experience of, say, “hovering” OB for very long periods while awake and even while doing certain everyday activities.

I also described, in post #103 of the “Breatharianism…” thread, how at sixteen I discovered I was constantly being watched in the most detailed way every moment. And how by the age of nineteen I had confirmed that that “watcher”, which had sometimes seemed separate from me, actually was me, even though in a certain sense it lived a separate life. Even though, as it (mistakenly) seemed to me at first, all it apparently did all the time was watch.

So, I’d like to confirm that my experience since the age of nineteen has been that there are constantly and continually at least two levels of experience, one of them bodily and the other kind of hovering outside the body. The latter level sure takes away the boredom value out of almost any situation, because it’s in many ways a happier and bigger point of view. I suspect that in my own case there has been some amount of integration between the two “selves”. So, they’re not at odds with each other, even though they often provide different points of view.

As AwakeInADream so wisely says in post #108, spirituality is ultimately all about the integration of different aspects of our selves and of life. But before we can integrate separate areas, we first need to know for sure that they even exist. And that, I believe, is where astral travel comes in. Then, hopefully, that can be expanded into an appreciation and experience of OB being that starts to integrate with ordinary waking consciousness.

Incidentally, the exercise described in post #24 provides one way in which everybody can fully experience an OB state, if only for seconds, while remaining fully awake.

TraineeHuman

26th December 2012, 08:53

Let’s suppose you accept my claim that I experience two “selves”, one OB and one of the conventional kind, that has a first name and surname. It’s an interesting exercise to try to list some characteristics of each of these selves.

I won’t list anything about the conventional self. Knowing thyself, observing thyself, and in very great detail, is fundamental to spirituality as I understand it.

What can we say for sure about the OB self? One thing is that it seems to watch and record everything that happens, in a non-judgmental fashion. That’s one of a number of qualities it has in common with the subconscious. It is different from the subconscious, but maybe it’s identical with the sum total of the more positive areas of the subconscious – the areas that aren’t connected with the scars we carry from our past.

Another thing we can say is that it seems to lack many of the qualities of solidity, of matter. It’s a “free spirit” – well, of course it is, because it is spirit. It seems to me it’s not clear in what ways it has boundaries. Certainly, there’s a strong feeling about it of expansiveness. Like electricity or the wind, it seems to be waiting to go anywhere, be anything. Indeed, even the English word “spirit” comes from the Latin word for “breath”. Breath is also thought of as what keeps us alive, so it seems to be whatever it is that gives life to the biochemical robot we know as our body.

I’d certainly welcome reading any thoughts or suggestions or experiences anyone has regarding this.

TraineeHuman

27th December 2012, 09:20

A shortcut to experiencing both your selves, the OB and the conventional, is the following exercise. I’m extremely interested to hear if anybody can learn to do this who isn’t an experienced meditator, or a professional in the arts or sports or some other creative field (who has therefore learnt how to work fluently with their intuition). Anybody who tries and fails -- please feel free to share what you experience.

The exercise – which was invented by the late Barry Long -- has two stages. The first stage is what Tolle calls “feeling the aliveness”.

As Barry described it, the first stage involves firstly getting yourself grounded. (There are many ways to get rounded. One simple way is to sit with your thumb touching your belly button and your hand flat against your belly in such a way that the palm of your hand is over your center of gravity, your second chakra.)

Secondly, ask yourself how it really feels simply to be alive. Tune into that feeling. If you are calm and grounded, it will at the very least be a feeling of OK-ness, if not of profound and peaceful joy.

Once you have gotten used to the first stage, the second stage is to allow that good feeling inside all of you to spread all around you, filling the room you are in. Remember, in post #102 I mentioned how the astral body is really the inner “body”. This exercise involves being aware of that “body” as lying both outside of your physical body and also, at the same time, inside of your physical body, where it always can be found. In other words, it involves expanding your astral body so that you can feel its goodness not only inside but all around you.

I suggest this is an ingenious exercise because it is based on asking the simplest and most basic of all questions, namely, how does it truly, deeply feel just to be alive? Because of the simplicity of that question, the question takes you straight to the core of what Buddhists call your Buddha nature, i.e. your true nature.

Deneon

27th December 2012, 11:25

Deneon has asked me for comments about what he describes in his recent posts in the The Secret of the Soul thread (posts #65 and #67 there). Deneon asks some great questions, so I’d like to respond to some of his questions here.

Thank you so much for your comments. Christmas celebrations prevented me from replying quicker. :)

One piece of up front disclosure about my biases first. I guess after I had learnt to astral travel regularly at nights for a few years, my “astral travel” balloon got pricked somewhat because I had a spiritual teacher and psychotherapist who insisted that the only OB travel I would do, if I was at all smart and well-informed, would never involve using some kind of “astral body” or “higher body” to travel in. Some years later I would understand that basically he was ever so right on this point, and why. So, that’s part of the reason why I feel I wouldn’t be faithful to any reader without at least trying to give them constant hints of why travel without any “body” is better and is also eventually do-able for every one of you.

I haven’t been consciously out of body yet. I believe you when you say this is the way we should eventually learn how to travel. But do you think it’s possible, or wise, to completely skip the ’step’ where you have a visible energy body? I for one would like to consciously see myself in an astral body, while I see my physical body lying in my bed. I would imagine this is a necessary experience, before even beginning to think about travelling without a body. Of course, I could be wrong.

One general comment I would make about Deneon is that this – OB travel -- is something that he obviously has a true passion for. When just looking at or thinking about a subject brings up such a great well of energy inside you that you can’t even sleep, that’s what I call a true passion. It’s always invariably something you have a great talent for and were meant to do, extremely well. It would be great if everybody could find such a level of passion for this particular subject, because it’s so important. Also because it takes months or years of work to master this.

Secondly, this Deneon guy can actually feel lots of energy in his feet and throughout his legs. That’s impressive, because the great majority of people can’t. Moreover, my private benchmark for whether or not somebody is a natural psychic healer is whether or not they can feel at least some tiny trickle of life energy flowing out of their feet, at least when they attempt to do some psychic healing. My second benchmark is can they feel the faintest shiver along their spine in such a situation? Again, not a problem for this guy. So, Deneon, you already naturally happen to have certain energies and skills released inside you which take you well out of the “beginner” box in my book. By the way, Deneon, whyever order a blood test when you’re more truly normal or natural than most?

It’s true that I really want to experience being out-of-body. This is only because I am done ’believing’ everything to be true. I want to KNOW. I have always had a fascination about UFOs and ETs. Spirits, ghosts, life after death, were all things I did not believe in. But there came a point in my UFO research where I just couldn’t separate the (what I thought to be purely physical) UFO phenomenon from the spiritual side of life.

I am flattered that you would already take me out of the beginner box. Unfortunately, that’s not the way I see it. I have been feeling these energies for just over a week now. I have never felt anything like it before. I don’t know what to do with them either. I find it hard to explain why I got these tinglings in my feet, the very first time I actually try ’something spiritual’. I know some people try for years and years without feeling anything. It almost makes me feel guilty. Why would someone who has dismissed anything related to spirituality for his entire life, suddenly be ’rewarded’ with these energy sensations? I still feel them, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Why do I still feel them? Has something been permanently ’opened’ in me? I have discarded the blood test by the way. I was only worried about disease the first day I felt these sensations. I realize now that worrying about diabetes or whatever was silly.

I have been reading more about life energy, chakras and so on than about OBE in the last few days. This is all very new to me. Somehow I feel I need to control this first, before I really want to try to consiously go out of body. I have trouble sleeping, because it just feels as if there is too much energy in me to go to sleep. The sensations are always more intense at night, even if I do not think about them at all. It’s hard to explain, but the area around my heart then often feels as if it is shaking a little. I know this is not ’the vibrations’, its slower and less intense than that. Also it lasts for hours. It also feels like my hands and arms are shaking along. It’s almost like when you’re very cold, only you’re not. I noticed I actually sweat alot during sleep this past week, and I have no idea why (very bad dream recall, still). I don’t know if this is true, but to me it feels als if there is more energy coming into my body than flowing out and that’s why I can’t seem to fall asleep.

Last night I decided to try to bring on these sensations (and ultimately, the ’vibrations’, when I went to bed. It took a while longer than before, but after a while I felt these waves of energy go through me again. There is a lot less fear than in the beginning, which makes me happy. Apparantly I’m getting used to these sensations and that literally puts a smile on my face. :) I tried affirmations for a while (’now I’m out of body’). While sometimes the sensations seeem to increase after this, I never actually went out of body. Anyway, after a while it became apparent that it wouldn’t go any further and I decided to go to sleep.

’Decided to go to sleep’. That’s what I read in the books. Boy do I want to know how these guys just ’decide’ to call it quits for the night and go to sleep. I really can’t. For hours on end I would feel these energies inside me that make it literally impossible to sleep. What happened to me before and what happened now again is that when I finally feel myself drifting off, I can see dream imagirey coming in, I just become 100% awake straight away with a surge of energy. A really BIG surge. This would be a time where one would ’expect’ the vibrations coming on, according to Buhlman. While I don’t believe I have felt the vibrations, the energy sensations were at times really, really strong, like I haven’t felt before. I also hear something in my ear at times, what I can only describe as chopper rotors. Only they are faster and way off in the distance. So everytime this happened I tried to float out of my body. I tried rolling out, I tried pulling myself out by an imaginary rope. Nothing worked. I tried about 10 times. Can you imagine that this gets old fast, if you actually want to fall asleep? This is the main reason why I am hesitant to ’work’ on going OBE every night. I need sleep. :(

A couple of thoughts:

Yesterday during one of the times I ’woke’ up (I was never completely asleep) I felt my brow area tingle. When I tried to ’see’ with my third eye it became more intense. I didn’t actually ’see’ anything (except the kadeiloscope like imagery of light and dark) but this was the first time I think I felt my third eye.

Also, the feeling I have in my feet and lower legs also seem to be present in my hands since last night. Is it possible that something has been permanently opened in my hands as well? And should I try and open more energy centers like this? If someone has their heart chakra opened for example, will they feel it all day long?

Next, one idea I’d like to throw in here is something invented by the late Barry Long. (Eckhart Tolle and I were both at some stage students of Barry. Tolle uses the same concept, as far as I’ve read with essentially the same meaning.) I’m referring to “the inner body”. One way Barry described this was to say you can think of it as everything that’s inside you. And that when you die, the shape of all everything you can feel inside you stays exactly the same, and that’s exactly what lives on.

The point here is that “the inner body” is the same exact thing as the astral body, pretty much. Only, Barry emphasized how it’s “inside”. That’s one reason why I claim you don’t necessarily need to have “the vibrations” in order to jump OB. Instead, if you can get fully in touch with your true feelings, and with your intuitive instincts, I claim that’s another doorway to the same place. I hope this isn’t confusing the hell out of some people. But what I’m saying is that any way you can get much more real about who and what you really, truly are will get you to the OB place. You are an infinite being – or Being itself, or something even beyond that – playing hide-and-seek with itself and fooling itself into playing small. You extend far beyond your body, to far beyond the most distant star, to beyond eternity. Just be very honest about yourself – like Chester (Justoneman) has recently demonstrated how to be – and bingo! you’re well over halfway there, no vibrations included. I literally don’t often use those vibrations at all. Sometimes I just barely notice them faintly, for a couple of seconds, as I whiz on further. (Not that I’m necessarily an expert on what the problems are that other people may have in learning a different way than mine.)

Incidentally, the 4D or 5D world may or may not look anything like the physical world we know. Many people – living and dead – find it convenient to create pictures of grass and trees and so forth, but they’re pictures, and not the real thing. You can also “fly” low enough in 4D that you see the physical world, but you also see energy fields around everything that has life, and you see some rather different colors for many things. You also see beings or energies that you won’t find in the physical world.

Or, you may see scenery and energies that look nothing like the physical world. I’m sure we’ve all seen at least a glimpse of these in some nightmare we had some time when we were ill.

Unfortunately, this is confusing the hell out of me :) I'm still learning of course, but the whole concept of travelling somewhere with your inner body, instead of an astral body, sounds very difficult. Maybe some day I will know exactly what you mean. I haven't read anything by the authors you mention. So many books, so little time. I do find the story about justoneman fascinating. He was stuck at work all day, yet you saw his astral body / projection in the meetup place. Like you say this seems to suggest there are multiple 'versions' of oneself. This is hard to wrap your mind around, but very interesting.

One questions: Lower 4D seems to be a duplicate of the physical world, but not actually the physical world, if I understand it correctly. One experiment by Buhlman for example: He blew out a lighted candle in his home when he was out of body, but when he woke up the candle was still burning in the physical world. Also, some details of the room are different (different coffeetable or color of the curtains) in the astral than they are in the physical, even though they see the people in 4D, where they are at that time in 3D. How is this possible when it's just a duplicate and not actually the physical world?

Next, Deneon, it sounds to me like the tingling sensation you feel probably is indeed precisely “the vibrations”. It’s not such a big deal. It’s your life-energy moving through you. You just need to get comfortable with using energy more powerfully and still feeling OK about it and not like you’ve gone bananas. The more practice you can get at this the better.

You can also bring life-energy sensations on by doing something like walking q’i gong, or probably through learning how to do t’ai chi.

As far as I understand, while you’re OB your physical body still feels things. It doesn’t get totally blanked out. (Until the day when you die, your consciousness isn’t going to let go of looking after that physical body, even if it directs lots of its attention elsewhere when you’re OB.) That’s why I suspect when you experienced becoming a giant you actually were either flipping in and out or you were OB for most of that time.

I am quite sure they are not the vibrations. I have explained above why I think so. Will read more about bringing on the life-energy sensations, thanks :)

I actually hope I have not yet been out of body, because I want to be 100% aware of it when it happens.

I’ll pause here, Deneon, to give Jake a chance to reply to your further comments before I continue with mine.

He has decided to leave the forum. See this (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53486-The-effect-of-Doubt--and-after-post-9-Jake-asks-to-be-unsubscribed-) thread. Let's hope he decides to come back.

Thanks again for everything you do post here. I always read and think about all of your posts, even though I do not have the experience to understand all of it.

Reinhard

27th December 2012, 11:59

Thank you TH for all your support. I participated in the exercise, following your suggestions. It was a great experience to me, although I didn't have a distinct feeling of being part of a group....there definately was a sensation of 'energy waves', starting at my feet and going through the whole body. It 'felt good' to send healing energy to my loved ones.

Ever since I started focussing on OBE about 3 months ago (following Another Bob's and sirdipswitch's impulses), I have been wondering about the parallelity (is that an English word?) and --- subconscious --- interconnectedness of 'normal / wake' life and the astral. In my case, I have the impression, that the wall between those layers is still too thick. Even so, I'm convinced that TH's visits helped me in that regard. My goal is not to totally tear down the wall , but to transform it into some type of membrane......semi-permeability comes to mind...

Thanks again for your help, TH and my fellow OBE friends.

Chester

27th December 2012, 14:46

Two days ago I had a horrific personal experience. The details are not important. I was assigned a task at work late Tuesday, December 18th. On that day i was in the midst of an extremely nasty cold which seemed unrelated to the extremely nasty flu I had just gone through the week before (something I thought was quite odd).

The task had to be completed sometime on the 23rd of December and sent upstairs for the #2 person to review. At exactly 12:01 Dec 25th my time the project was to be launched with a public announcement through an online forum that is an industry watchdog.

I had never done a project of this nature with more heart and effort and intention to produce the very best desired result. I felt great about the final output I generated.

I had the post loaded up at 11:55 PM on Dec 24th and was all set to push the button. I was extremely exhausted as I had worked well over 11 solid hours a day for 8 straight days and also performed all my other normal responsibilities. The old Chester said... “push the button buddy, no one will care it is a few minutes early... “Come on dude, you don’t have to be that freaking perfect all the time.”
But then my own primary voice said, “Wait... you have done a great job and the post will indeed have a post time stamp – just wait the few more minutes,” and I did.

At 11:57 I got a call from #3 and #3’s voice did not sound good. I was told – “don’t post.” I asked why and #3 told me “your list was ****.” I said WTF!?! #3 repeated the words and I asked who told #3 that.

I called the #1 and I was blasted. Literally blasted and in the hugest way. Yes, my ego was crushed, but it went far deeper than ego as I know I did the absolute best job I could possibly have done and yet this was the perception of the #1 and I have no doubt it all came from #2.

I was extremely, emotionally devastated.

I could not sleep at all and had to be in the office at 8:00 AM and was totally exhausted.

Not being able to sleep i decided to go onto the Avalon Forum. I went to the Horus-Ra thread and discovered a post that essentially painted the picture that the experiences some of us have had with other dimensional entities was simply illnesses within our own individual minds and had no foundation in actual reality and could not be proved.

This post is from someone who has had amazing personal experiences in the “astral” and actually has spent two generations performing “rescue work” in the astral realm. He has, admittedly, been in contact and received the attention of one of the most respected and renowned “ascended masters” and I doubt you will find a more loving and wonderful human being on earth today.

And yet, his view essentially insinuates that my experiences (much less all the others who have had first hand encounters with alien beings, extra dimensional beings, etc is simply and only delusions within the mind of the individual perceiver.

This post was quite devastating to me and for this reason.

Many of us on earth today that have had these experiences are seeking a better world for our children. When an individual with the stature of the one who made the post takes the position our experiences are simply delusions of our own (and with an implication – sick and/or delusional) minds because

a.) he has not had these types of experiences and he perceives himself an authority on the matter

b.) because his ascended master friend and all the other Spirit beings he has encountered have influenced his thinking that there could not possibly be more to the story than what he has concluded and

c.) that none of us can prove to him with enough evidence of proof that he would agree is valid proof that our experiences are more (and in my opinion far, far more) than just simple creations within our own, individual minds.

So eventually I was able to go to sleep – around 2:30 or 3:00 AM.

I had the most incredible lucid dream. I dreamed I was on a planet where the ground all around us was caving in. water was rushing over the land that was collapsing. I could tell i was with many people and yet I was definitely worried about myself. I did not perceive any specific loved ones yet i was with others I knew and cared about. We were all running to buildings and places where we thought we could be safe. The ground was actually swarming. At the end of the dream (just before I did what i always do when i have a dream I begin to not like – which is to intentionally wake myself up), the ground had collapsed all around a small piece of land which had a small building which I and others were in. I saw the last stages of ground just outside the window falling in and the water rushing over it. I knew the next thing that could happen was that the ground holding up this small building would collapse. That is when I woke myself up.

At the moment of awakening, as opposed to prior to my joining Avalon where I would be in a pretty deep state of shock, I was instantly analytical about this lucid dream experience. It was truly amazing. I did not do like some folks have done, where I consider my astral/dream experience might be a foretelling of the future of mankind. Instead I realized I had it in the context of the experiences I just endured in my waking state. Two HUGE devastating experiences for me personally that I experienced just before sleep... and then this incredible “dream” where I lucidly participated.

These are the types of experiences I have from which I draw a greater understanding as to “what” I might be. It is not about the “who” – it is about the “what.”

And the “what I am” is subject to various experiences and they all tie together into a single, ongoing experience at various levels of the “who” I am’s experience.

physical

mental

emotional

out of the Physical

at my soul level

at the level of my spirit

at the level of Spirit

These Seven components to my being is what I, personally, break my experience down to. I do not suggest that anyone share my view. Note, this is the breakdown I perceive today.

I do not attribute this view to any specific experience or encounter I have had with any type of “ascended” being nor Great Teacher, or DK, or divinely appointed “master”... not to a Jesus Christ, or Lucifer or Satan or any other “personality” we might want to come up with.

It is my own self-generated map and it is a map I use to navigate my experience today. Plain and simple and guess what? I could change my view of the map.

Anyways – I had to post this here as definitely it includes an amazing and wonderful (yes wonderful OBE experience).

Why did I “enjoy” what appears to have been a nightmare? Because I no longer doubt at all whatsoever that whatever of me is real is also safe and can never, ever be threatened. This allows me to have any type of experience with essentially zero fear.

I do not care if anyone believes that I have achieved this state of being, but I have. If you were one of my personal friends, you would say, “Yep, Chester... I know you are crazy that way... but dude, please keep your feet on the ground, ok?”

I appreciate and love Ya’ll... Chester

Ohhh I had a massive lucid dream last night with George W. Bush... I will post the details of this dream next post - I have been awake for 1.5 hours and the details are still vividly etched in my mind. Cheers, Chester

Chester

27th December 2012, 15:07

My dream with George W. Bush at around 7:00 AM US Central Time today, December 27th, 2012.

I found myself in a home. The home had several rooms. I was in the home because I was welcomed there. It was a large home that appeared to have only one floor. I entered a room and there was George W. Bush. We had some type of exchange... a communication of sorts but without words. I recall feeling I belonged there, I recall feeling that I am trusted and I recall having that feeling like a young soldier might when he is called in by some general to be asked to perform some special type of duty... the dream then shifted to where I was in the doorway of a room that had several men in it... about 5, maybe 6. One was George W. Bush. They all were basically standing in a row about 10 feet in front of me with George W. Bush one of the guys in the center. None of the other men were anyone I might know and I got the feeling these men were part of a team and that they were intentionally unknown to the popular world.

I had the feeling i was asked to meet my team mates.

Strangely the next thing I knew I was driving an old, blue station wagon. I knew th car was given to me by this team. I was on what i believe was Central Expressway in Dallas Texas heading south. I recall having this fantastic feeling that finally, I was asked officially to join the team and begin performing my missions. I had zero clue what those missions might be and well, in fact... I had the strange feeling that I am actually doing my mission right now in my real, waking life... simply being me and doing what i do every day in my life which includes these strange postings I make which are all and only about my own personal experience, the conclusions I draw from them and the view points I explore and most importantly, how I allow my opinions, conclusions and view points to change (the key reason I am honored to be invited as a part of this team).

There is zero "steerage" or apparent mind control related to any of this. I am given zero instructions. All I feel I gain from these encounters as confidence that i am not alone, confidence that I have the support of some very interesting people at their deeper levels of their being and I am aware that I am very, very happy about this.

Strangely as well, I feel zero wrong about my posting about all this. I suspect some here will conclude I am a mind controlled MK Ultra and that I work for the Rockefeller/Bush/Nazi clan and that I am a "bad guy."

Maybe I am.

Maybe I am delusional and all this is simply machinations of a deranged mind - realize I have been in well over a dozen mental facilities (mostly when I was young) but still - I could just be totally and completely crazy haha.

I have no idea how to interpret these experiences but what I do know now is that I am going to begin to post all my strange psi experiences that relate specifically to George W. Bush which will point out why I think just about everyone on this planet has the wrong idea about him (as well as his Dad).

I am certain this will all make me the most unpopular guy on the forum and very possibly might get me banned BUT, I hope I am allowed to make these posts as I am truly, only being honest, sharing actual experiences and positing my own conclusions.

And note, if I were aligned with anyone where being loyal to them required me to compromise upholding my own extremely rigid personal standards, then i would likely exit the team. I may then just retire and shut my mouth and if I am allowed to live, would inter into a focusing on my close family, perhaps some writings I might attempt to publish with regards to metaphysics and lastly, the metaphysical phase of my own bodily death.

TraineeHuman

28th December 2012, 04:19

Chester: A way to take the edge off all suffering, a smarter and shorter way – is that even possible? Well, as I understand it, a central idea of Christianity is that Jesus supposedly left us with such a way. Ditto regarding Buddhism and the Buddha, and so on. So, where is it?? Does such a thing exist?

May I dare suggest that the exercise described in post #114 may indeed be precisely one such way? Accessible not just to you and me, Chester, but to every serious intelligent person. Ideas of genius are always very simple. So simple that people may miss taking them seriously altogether.

On the one hand, the fact that you felt so depressed at being criticized was good to the extent that it proves you’re extraordinarily committed to searching for the truth. But let me explain why anyone who has even begun to be able to do stage two of the exercise in post #114 -- just a tiny bit sometimes – wouldn’t be capable of feeling very depressed ever again. Aren’t you perhaps ripe to move to that stage by now, Chester?

The word “suffer” comes from the Latin roots “sub” and “fer”, and literally means “carry underneath”. But where is “underneath”?

To cut along story short. let me just state that "underneath" is in the 3D body. The point is, your “other” body or self is very detached, and if something happens that would be very hurtful to your conventional self, the “other” self immediately has a very different viewpoint. Being much more detached and less judgmental, it immediately conveys to you a way to see the situation so that it stings far, far less. Because the “other” body does get hurt far, far less.

It seems to me this fits very well with Jesus’ declarations of replacing all your burdens with ones much easier and lighter. Ditto, again, the Buddha. I could go on and on for pages explaining how so many centrally important sayings of Jesus, and also the Buddha, fit in with this so tightly. But they don't seem to fit in at all with the actual practice of most Christians and of many Buddhists.

Chester, you mentioned how you got trapped in suffering through smoking weed. As far as I understand, that substance in most cases puts a person into the lower astral world not only without protection but without full control, and therefore as a victim. That’s not a recommended way to go OB.

We come into this world of suffering to learn about polarities and extremes. But it was never meant to be such a trap. You don’t need to run over a child in order to learn the lesson that it’s important to drive safely. You don’t need to become a drug addict or alcoholic to understand that drugs or alcohol are potentially very dangerous. Instead, I suggest we were meant to learn how to make any emotional burden light, in a rather simple way.

Even if at first you can only do stage one of the exercise at #114 for brief periods, just keep doing it every time you’re reminded, providing your commitments leave you free to do it at that time.

I have more comments in response to Justoneman, and also in response to Deneon, Reinhard, and Wakytweaky. But till then I’ll be busy for about a day.

TraineeHuman

28th December 2012, 07:58

Deneon,

May I suggest that the “inner body” is the same thing as the astral body. You’ll notice that the astral body goes out of body, which means, surely, that it must have been inside the body before it went traveling. Or what other explanation is there? It gets manufactured on the spot at exit? Similarly, at the end of the traveling it has to return back into the physical body. (Or into where?) Once it has returned, wouldn’t you agree it might perhaps be reasonable to refer to it as “inner”? Otherwise, where exactly do you suppose it goes at the end of each journey? Is it not more reasonable to suppose it remains intact, rather than somehow dissolving, or somehow mysteriously merging in a split-second with something else?

It’s a pity Jake has left the Forum. From having visited with him OB, I know for a fact that he seemed to be extraordinarily free of complaining, or he was just very unwilling to fall into the trap of complaining. I also experienced him OB as being a very mature individual. My problem is, it’s decades ago since I used to go astral traveling (in the traditional way) with any regularity at all. Plus I’ve been moving on year after year and replacing one technique of “spirituality” with whatever I found seemed to work better, or be faster. Also, you go through a learning phase and then some things become second nature and then it’s hard for you to work out how you do that thing. Like, tell me exactly how do you drive a car, assuming I’m a beginner at that. These days, I often notice The Vibrations very faintly for about two seconds as I whiz by, but when they‘re that faint I often don’t notice them at all.

So, half the time I’m racking my brains to remember exactly what in the world sorts of things I was doing and experiencing three or four decades ago. Apart from, that many decades ago, walking into traps in the workplace and in sexual and other relationships, spending half my waking hours learning skills or whatever in meditation or personal growth, and seeming ridiculously detached to some people who knew me. But in answer to your question of do I think it’s better for you to consider learning OB traveling without using any “body” to travel in, my honest answer today would be, probably yes. One thing that’s been happening in the course of this thread has been that I’ve been looking carefully at the whole traditional understanding of astral travel and the more I look, the more things about it there are that seem to involve so much unnecessary effort and a lot of hit-and-miss.

When I started this thread I hadn’t planned to keep going for so long. But I was surprised by what I found (OB) to be the quality of each of the (few) members who were seriously following the thread. Also, I’ve found it useful as a tool of self-enquiry – because as we know, of course, “spirituality” involves continually exploring the question of “Who am I?” I guess what an internet forum primarily does is provide information, and points of view (and jokes or whatever) belonging to real people, plus discussion, the purpose of which is mostly to assist a person through a change of their point of view or to make a choice or decision. I’m doing the best that I can already to try to help or persuade you to decide to go for traveling without any “body”, plus info about various basics that I see this as involving. Even if I don’t always specifically say “this is one of those basics”. If you don’t find that convincing or helpful enough, fine. It’s up to you. So far, enough individuals have said they’re appreciating my thoughts or insights or views that at the moment it feels quite fun to keep going. And I guess I’m hoping that the penny may drop if I just keep talking further.

Maybe most of you folk need to find a very experienced teacher who lives in your area? After all, the man who taught me to astral travel in my sleep after he had died was very wise and very experienced, in astral travel among many other things. He was mentoring all the members of the TM Centre in my city, that being maybe the most popular form of meditation in my city at that time. Then there was the lady in her eighties who ran the psychic development classes where she would “lift” the whole group into the astral in a second, no vibrations included. I mean, she said it was decades since she had bothered to watch any movies or TV, because she got much more interesting pictures more directly, in her consciousness. It’s been less than a decade since I’ve similarly come to find all movies and almost anything on TV too uninteresting to bother with. So, how far ahead of me was she, in this field? But beware of the false teachers, or the ones who are con artists or egotists or gold collectors.

Also, there’s the kind of exotic factor that gives the whole idea of astral travel great appeal to some. For me it’s not about being exotic for the sake of exotic, at all. It’s about getting as close as you can to a permanent freedom from suffering – if you’ll even concede that such a thing is possible. By the way, if you really do want exotic, in my experience absolutely nothing, in or beyond the multiverse, holds a candle to what you can get when traveling without any “body”.

Deneon, you say you’re a beginner but I remain totally unconvinced you’re not a natural in various important respects. I guess it takes time, though, to get more comfortable with the notion that maybe you really are a natural.

I’ll make another post in a few days addressing some of the other specific points you have made or questions you are asking, Deneon.

AwakeInADream

28th December 2012, 19:56

You mentioned that smoking weed puts you into the lower astral without protection,
and this makes sense to me because many years ago I had a bad experience smoking weed
that to a degree has stayed with me to this day.
(occasional panic attacks and unpleasant nervousness in my 2nd Chakra)

I became very ill in my stomach after smoking something particularly strong and had to lay down,
at which point I saw what I thought was a Demon who spoke to me both in words and mind to mind.
He made it very clear to me that life was meaningless and when you die that's it.(Demon's are liars)

Your writing recently has given me pause to consider that maybe this Demon was in fact another aspect
of my self, a shadow self. My own fears personified? Would this make sense?
Or is it possible that this was a genuine Demonic attack?

The fear caused by this experience still comes back to bite me every now and then,
but I now have enough physical control to stop it becoming a full blown panic attack
and I just observe the fear (it's still not pleasant though).

Also when I first wake up (literally every time), I feel nerves in my 2nd Chakra that make me wish
I hadn't come back into the physical. I've just recently learned how to handle this now from the advice
of Meeradas here on Avalon who suggested that I breath in and out through the Chakra's.
This really does work, and helps to shift the unwanted energy making me feel so much better.

I wonder though, why could a possible astral attack from more than 15 years ago still have such an effect on me?

I am very much aware that the fear I feel is not who I really am, that it comes from outside of myself, but that also in a way the fear is a good thing because it is this fear that drives me on to find the truth through meditation and OBE's. To destroy fear for good! (Hopefully)

AwakeInADream

28th December 2012, 20:11

JustOneMan

I don't think that your respect for George W Bush is too controversial.
It's not unreasonable to assume that George W has a higher self, and that essentially that higher self may be 'good'.

Maybe even in his waking state he is 'playing the fool' to a certain degree, towards a positive end?
I'm open to the possibility.

Either way, good or bad, I think a quote from The Godfather Part III would fit nicely here:

Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgment.

DeDukshyn

28th December 2012, 22:17

I took too many really powerful magic mushrooms once, was removed from my body and taken to "Hell". I won't get into that experience much, suffice to say "Hell" is not a place but a state of mind that afflicts us all.

The really interesting part was re-integrating with my body. That was weird, because the form I was outside of my body was formless, I had no "shape" and in fact I had complete amnesia of my entire life on this planet - I had no idea what this "body" thing even was, so as I began to integrate, I was extremely overwhelmed with the process. I recall being in a state of absolute reverence to my body, I was amazed and impressed, I could feel each nerve cell, each capillary pumping my blood, every hair on my head, and my hands! Wow! these things are the coolest invention ever! "Physical" was not a part of my memory at this time at all, and all of this was just blowing my mind!

I came to appreciate my body a little more after that as I had experienced what it would be like for a being that had never experienced a "physical" interaction or experience, to come into a human body, all I can say is wow, what an experience!

Just the night before last, I finally was able to leave my body after several months of trying to "astral travel". I didn't stay out long as things "weren't quite right", I have some things to "straighten out" before I can start to really make use of this process.

My 2 cents ;)

lookbeyond

29th December 2012, 11:16

TraineeHuman

29th December 2012, 12:12

... What can we say for sure about the OB self? One thing is that it seems to watch and record everything that happens, in a non-judgmental fashion. That’s one of a number of qualities it has in common with the subconscious. It is different from the subconscious, but maybe it’s identical with the sum total of the more positive areas of the subconscious – the areas that aren’t connected with the scars we carry from our past.

Another thing we can say is that it seems to lack many of the qualities of solidity, of matter. It’s a “free spirit” – well, of course it is, because it is spirit. It seems to me it’s not clear in what ways it has boundaries. Certainly, there’s a strong feeling about it of expansiveness. Like electricity or the wind, it seems to be waiting to go anywhere, be anything. Indeed, even the English word “spirit” comes from the Latin word for “breath”. Breath is also thought of as what keeps us alive, so it seems to be whatever it is that gives life to the biochemical robot we know as our body.

.. .I was wondering is it possible this "Watcher" of ours is our spirit guide/guardian angel?

No, it's the real you. It's also the same thing as the "inner body" that some of my other recent posts mention.

Believe it or not, I happen to know for a fact that I have been a guardian angel and although I volunteered to come here in bodily form in this lifetime I'm due to return to that role soon. I wrote about some (by no means all) details in the thread "The journey to discovering my true origins", which is currently on p.19 of the Spirituality threads. Guardian angels, like all angels, are in that role as volunteers, though guardian angels are always from other ET races, and not of human origin, and they are quite senior in the angelic "pecking order". You would think, from reading someone like Duncan O'Finian, that such benevolent beings as these, and certain others, don't exist, but the fact is they do. (Some New Age writers like Doreen Virtue and others write a lot of stuff about "angels" which seems pure nonsense or insanity to me, and has nothing to do with the beings I know.)

I don't recommend that people trust all their "spirit guides". Some "spirit guides" can be a person's own past-lifetimes' personalities (a past-life identity of theirs), and I've known in detail of a small number of cases where some individuals seem to have gone insane just from listening too earnestly to a "spirit guide". Admittedly, most guides are just benevolent beings, and may sometimes be from one's dead friends or relatives. Also, it's usually much easier to locate, or hear, your current guides than to do the same with your guardian angels. The latter hang out mostly on the 5D/6D border or higher, where they are effectively invisible to beings at any lower level. In that way they are able to watch over each of us more effectively. They really will help you very resourcefully in many sticky or dangerous situations, provided you request that they do so.

lookbeyond

29th December 2012, 12:27

Chester

29th December 2012, 13:32

Hi TraineeHuman - I (as usual) have to be completely honest - My current work situation had evolved into a condition such that I was tremendously unhappy because I realized (and had known this for awhile) that I was...

a.) not wanted (nor perceived needed) for my true skill set

b.) my job expectations had evolved into the very function I explained to the two top guys at my interview were absolutely NOT what I was suited to do personally

c.) that if that is what they wanted from me, please, do not bother hiring me at all whatsoever... please!

On December 18th, I was handed a specific task that was actually perfect for my skill set and that I could do far, far superior than anyone in the company. On that same exact Tuesday evening I was in the midst of either a strange second wave of a terrible flu type illness that had begun on December 5th or had somehow contracted something new. Regardless, I plunged into the project AND continued to manage my other responsibilities and did so at a Grade A level.

When it came to light at 4 minutes before the project was to be publicly announced when the on sight #1 (who is overall #3) told me my project was **** I immediately called the real #1. I had never heard this person's voice like this ever before. I could tell that his perception was that I had failed, failed miserably and that nothing I could say or do or prove to him 9as he was simply not open to reconsidering his view) could ever be presented such that he could change his perception.

All his information came from the #2. Realize neither of these top two folks are on site... they have been away from our physical facility. The #2 came to his conclusion for whatever reasons and I did not speak with this person.

So I was in an impossible situation. I did one of the very best jobs given the hand I was dealt that i have ever been given in my life and I knew it (and still know it). But knowing the actual truth and having to accept and endure the miss perceptions of my actual boss who is also the owner and that this person is basing this opinion on the words of his actual right hand individual just at face value had me in one of those impossible situations.

Then, combine that with what happened next (at now 1 AM ish on December 25th) - that I had to face posts in perhaps one of the most important threads on this forum... posts that were not directed at me... but instead were painting a particular picture that could set back the thread's direction and even might possibly kill it and normally I would have been able to head of the clear misdirect with ease, yet was mind funked by the personal mind blowing experience I just endured and so when I was finally able to get to sleep, it was no surprise the incredible lucid dream I experienced.

Now get this part clearly understood...

I did not suffer at all.

I experienced several difficult situations all within 6 or so hours when at just before midnight on the 24th I was patting myself on the back for putting in one of my best efforts ever.

The dream (which most folks would characterize as a lucid nightmare) was simply and only a lucid dream. I recall when I did my trick of waking myself up at the moment in the dream where all was about to go past a magical line I have approached many times in these types of lucid dreams - where the next thing likely to happen would "kill" me. This has been a technique I have developed since childhood. Simply wake up.

Now the point of my post.

I instantly and with no emotion nor any residual sense of "wowness" considered the dream in light of these two totally unexpected experiences and thus considered the dream as nothing more than a method of cleansing myself of the negativity of these two experiences. My loved ones and I were able to escape (I, for the moment at least) certain death in the lucid dream.

These 6 hours were not "suffering" - these 6 hours were an incredible metaphysical experience.

Now... interestingly enough, just a few weeks before, my former employer who I left in early September to join this new team had, through the person who took my old position, reached out to me hoping I would come back. I declined and in part due to the fact I had yet to cross that line at my current situation where I would give up hope I could fit in. Well, clearly the line was drawn at 11:57 PM on December 24th and so, just yesterday, I recontacted my old employer and a.) he offered me more than I am making now and b.) promised me even more come next September.

Since December 25th, I focused upon the posts I felt were infective for the thread I mentioned above. My responses were direct and lengthy. I was in essence "attacking" someone I love, someone who had extended me their friendship, someone who I am certain felt a level of trust in me. But my responses were not about me nor my poster friend. They were about something I believe is far, far greater than silly egos.

Yesterday, the poster who had made what I felt were concerning posts deleted all their posts and withdrew (for now) from the thread. Quite interesting.

So I stepped back and reported myself. Maybe I crossed a line I should not have. Maybe I once again went against one of Bill Ryan's most important guidelines - that being that the Project Avalon Forum be a "safe place."

Clearly my words made it unsafe for this poster to the extent they actually deleted their posts. This was the second time I have been in part (or fully) responsible for someone going to this extreme.

So maybe I am a bad guy - we shall see what the mods decide.

But understand, TraineeHuman... I never "suffered" - I experienced and still continue to do so.

I appreciate your offering of the method you mentioned above (I also cuaght that post the first time). I just have my own ways of dealing with my own garbage which does not involve exercises.

Now for last night's incredible lucid dream.

There is only two human beings on earth that totally hate my guts. My ex-wife, the lovely and fantastic "Lucifera" and her current boyfriend (her first bona fide boyfriend since the divorce which became official on October 1, 2001).

I have more than once offered a true, heartfelt apology for whatever role I played in our breakup. On Christmas Day, 2011 I spoke with her on Skype and expressed this in the truest and most sincere fashion one could imagine and it was truly from my heart. She acted as if she accepted (but I later found out this was not the case). Nevertheless, I had, for years, moved way, way past the resentments and I actually view her as my true, greatest teacher. Her soul knows this and perhaps this is why she still hates my guts! haha

Anyways, she had told her boyfriend some of our history and of course, there were lots of lies (these lies have been confirmed by my sons to have been told to this guy). And so, he being a good guy and a man who loves my ex-wife not only believes her overall story (some truth and lots of lies) but because of the nature of the whole of the story, also hates my living guts.

Those who know me will not be surprised at what i am about to state. I love Mandy, always will as we rode the greatest storms of love together and in the process generated 4 human beings (three of which were born alive) and I simply honor and hold most high the Mother of my children. In addition, I am aware of several things Fred (her boyfriend) has done (good things and not so good things) in relation to Mandy and in relation to my sons. Of these things (the good things) I have come to a sense and feeling about this man... a man I never met, a man who hates my ever living guts, that I like him, care about him, appreciate what good he has done for my sons and appreciate that Lucifera has perhaps the man she would prefer to have.

Last night (well actually early this morning) I had the most fantastic lucid dream. In it were Mandy and Fred. In the dream I was with them and they were not angry with me nor hateful towards me. I was able to have a good, postive conversation with them but especially with Fred. I truly loved this guy in the dream. I saw him in the most amazing form and I recall he had long black or very dark brown hair. He was simply cool. Just before I awoke, I came up to him and then, like some one who wants to express extreme reverence, I took his hand and knelt down on one knee in front of him and bowed my head to him.

And then I instantly woke up. I don't suffer - I experience... and I think the key to my no longer suffering is that I have proven to myself something I perceive as fact. And that is this -

The actual truth in my heart always eventually reflects back to me if...

I am patient.

Chester

29th December 2012, 13:59

Smoking weed does not initially place me only in the lower astral. In fact, what it does is it allows "me" - the actual conscious being - to be in a tremendously heightened state where I experience what I call hyper-quantum synchronicity.

Has this state then also exposed me to the elements that are determined by experienced astral travelers to be of "the lower astral?" Absolutely Yes.

There are two important components to my experiences with marijuana that I must share.

The first is that as I have aged, my experience with marijuana has evolved. The last time I picked up marijuana (and note, I had not used any other drug other than coffee for months prior to the picking up again - which was mid August of 2010) I went into this instant state of hyper-quantum synchronicity and so what I began to do is document my synchronicity experiences. I have hundreds of documents of the details (with artifacts) of all but completely impossible synchronicity experiences, psionic experiences, experiences shared by others whose minds were reasonably blown. Some I may start to post...

BUT! - what happened and what has always happened with me with regards to marijuana is that I was so attached to my heightened levels of synchronicity experience, psi experience and of course, the conversations with the voices in my head that when I was "off" the weed life was completely boring. So I would smoke it more often, I would smoke more of it when I got high and I had an insatiable drive to obtain the very best quality I could and then eventually, my whole entire life revolved around my "habit."

And then... (and this has happened to me at least 15 or so times throughout this lifetime) - the #2 voice began to take another form. I would always sink into a state which likely was totally and completely "lower astral" and I would be one on one (in all mys states... deep sleep, dreaming state and waking state) with the darkest and most sinister entity one might imagine ever encountering.

What I believe is a Horus-Ra entity and one of the highest (their hierarchy) order.

The last time the experience truly nearly killed me.

It is documented now in many studies that for about 2% to 5% of the population, psychosis can occur for those who pursue habitual usage of marijuana. Sadly for me, I am in that small percentage.

I wish I could smoke marijuana but my better judgement (at least today) says I should not.

I also know that when I have picked up marijuana again after a lengthy layoff, it has always and only been a matter of time before I achieve the darker regions of psychosis.

This story ends well. Since my last time to smoke weed was sometime last January (my guess is January 22nd or so) I have remained 100% away from weed. The only drug I have taken and which I would have a hard time quitting is good old Colombian coffee (as well as Costa Rican coffee).

What I have also done is go through a cleanse process of my body and have adjusted what I eat. And the good news is - I have been able to achieve some amazingly incredible states of this hyper-quantum synchronicity!

I don't need weed (like I used to think I did) to achieve these states!

I judge no one for what they do in this regard. I offer no advice nor have any opinion if someone should or should not experience life under the influence of marijuana. I have no doubt I would not be anywhere near where I am at today if it were not for my experiences with marijuana - weed helped me extricate myself for the most part, from the matrix.

Yet, I also know what eventually happens to me if I use weed - amazing, sad... but true.

Accept the things you cannot change...

FrankoL

29th December 2012, 14:02

I experience quite a lot OBE's. Not completely sure if it's DNA memory direct access or real body spirit split. HT are you descendent from "royal" bloodline? This would explain why...

TraineeHuman

30th December 2012, 00:56

One thing that I ‘d like to say to Deneon, Wakytweaky and Reinhard, and probably some others out there somewhere, is this. The clever Western mind makes everything seem much more complex than it is in reality. And when it comes to OB phenomena, the mind has a field day. Teradactyl was very shrewd and intelligent to say some time ago that she had had enough conceptualizing and she would now concentrate on learning by doing. I admire her good sense.

If you think about it, if you find yourself seeing certain pictures or unusual scenery in your head, you probably don’t know if that’s hallucination or not, do you? And seeing such scenery seems to be the only way people know that they were astral traveling. The trouble is, for many it does take a lot of work to master and get plenty of control of OB travel, but equally it’s true that everybody does it all the time in small ways without realizing.

For instance, gdelisle said how he put his head back on his pillow and found that he kind of fell through his bed. Up to that point he didn’t know whether he was seeing in 4D or not, wouldn’t you say? But unless you very clearly notice something like that, I suspect you folk would unfortunately write it off as “not there yet, at all”. The clever mind/ego will jump to extremes, as usual. It wants the most spectacular and unambiguous OB experience lasting a quarter of an hour at least, preferably with quadraphonic sound. Anything else won’t count. Otherwise, it insists that the Great McGuffin is still quite fully beyond your reach.

Unfortunately, on a discussion forum all we have is words and concepts. But any kind of real spirituality is a matter of practice, of learning by doing. I’ve been writing under the assumption that any serious person appreciates this and has been doing exercises repeatedly. (Or else they’ve had some real experiences and just would like to reflect on their significance.) I don’t really care if the exercises are Buhlmann’s exercises or Jake’s or Monroe’s or the few I’ve included. If I tried to describe how to drive a car to somebody who doesn’t have a licence yet, imagine how complex and difficult it would all sound to them if they read my words without at the same time getting behind a steering wheel on some road and putting it into practice.

Incidentally, I don’t see the material I’ve been describing as fundamentally in any contradiction with Buhlmann or Jake or whoever. You can do both mine and the traditional stuff, and each of the two will be helpful in doing the other. It’s not an either-or situation. That’s simply another trick that the clever mind likes to play. Isn’t it amazing what sorts of tricks the mind is capable of?

TraineeHuman

30th December 2012, 01:02

TraineeHuman

30th December 2012, 01:08

Thankyou,TraineeHuman, my 10 yr old son was in his bedroom one day and turned around suddenly to see a tall golden figure without a face standing in his doorway, he came very calmly to tell me, i told him this being may hav been his guardian angel- what is your opinion TH?
Kind Reguards lb

Beings with the bright golden (as distinct from pale yellow) light are very benevolent and powerful. Certainly the more senior of the guardian angels have that light. My intuition suggests that yes, this is one of your son's guardian angels. Can he talk to that being? If he can learn to communicate even slightly with that being, that would be some skill to have.

TraineeHuman

30th December 2012, 01:30

AwakeInADream

30th December 2012, 01:43

TraineeHuman

30th December 2012, 03:37

Is there a particular method or exercise by which we can meet our spirit guides or guardian angels in an OBE?

Or a way by which our guides/angels can even help us to have an OBE?

EDIT:

I've just re-done the exercise in post 24# and asked my higher self these questions,
and what I saw was something like this:
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4572654941504422&pid=15.1

I haven't got a clue what that might mean:confused:

You would probably have to be quite experienced in OB before you'd see (or hear from) your guardian angels. I'm trying to stick more to talking about getting the basics of OB. GAs usually look like extremely bright, gigantic lights, either pure white/silver or gold in color. The question is, how well have you learnt to see in OB worlds? (Equally, feeling the joy and calmness and detachment of your inner body more and more intensely is a gradual process, and improves your "eyesight".) Developing that sight further and further is a gradual process. I suppose that would fit with the picture you saw, AwakeInADream. Or as Buhlmann might say: "(More) awareness, (please)!" Open those eyes.

Almost anybody can learn to at least conduct a simple conversation with one of their guides. I guess I would say you should join a psychic development class somewhere. Most of the ones I've seen teach people how to see and listen their own and their classmates' guides. But I'd suggest you should use some psychic protection as well.

Your GAs wouldn't directly help you have an OBE. But they would help you to meet someone in bodily form who could assist you, if you asked them for that, and if that was in your highest interests. Don't worry, they can hear you at all times, even if you can't hear them.

AwakeInADream

30th December 2012, 04:57

Thank's TraineeHuman!:)

I've had lucid dreams where I've seen a guide in a white robe and the indescribable bright white light,
which featured mind to mind communication (that sadly didn't translate back into my regular consciousness in the physical world).
I just wish I could do this without being asleep first(and so retain the message).

I love doing that exercise in post 24# and will keep doing it,
at first I didn't have a clue what that big eyed monkey meant,
but I've been given a few suggestions on the 'Here and Now' thread.

I suppose the more I do it, the more I'll get used to this kind of visual language.

TraineeHuman

30th December 2012, 08:53

...

The really interesting part was re-integrating with my body. That was weird, because the form I was outside of my body was formless, I had no "shape" and in fact I had complete amnesia of my entire life on this planet - I had no idea what this "body" thing even was, so as I began to integrate, I was extremely overwhelmed with the process. I recall being in a state of absolute reverence to my body, I was amazed and impressed, I could feel each nerve cell, each capillary pumping my blood, every hair on my head, and my hands! Wow! these things are the coolest invention ever! "Physical" was not a part of my memory at this time at all, and all of this was just blowing my mind!

I came to appreciate my body a little more after that as I had experienced what it would be like for a being that had never experienced a "physical" interaction or experience, to come into a human body, all I can say is wow, what an experience!

Just the night before last, I finally was able to leave my body after several months of trying to "astral travel". I didn't stay out long as things "weren't quite right", I have some things to "straighten out" before I can start to really make use of this process.

My 2 cents ;)

Anyone who has experienced OB travel will know that on return to the physical body it’s quite often necessary to do some grounding (or "re-integration") techniques. Otherwise, you don’t have your full coordination, because, technically, your “other” self hasn’t fully returned, or hasn’t completed “docking”.

There was some detailed discussion of some aspects of how grounding works in the “Breatharianism…” thread in Spirituality a year or more ago.

(Incidentally, when we travel OB we are traveling effectively free of our personality, i.e. our emotional and mental and psychic/neurotic “bodies” as well as of our physical body. When we die we travel in exactly the same way, except that we are then cut off from returning to any of those “bodies”. That’s why grounding isn’t just a kind of trivial exercise. After each OB travel, it’s part of what’s technically a type of rebirth.)

As far as I understand, grounding works and is important because it connects you to the crystal and similar energies deep within the Earth. As we know, natural crystals serve as the bodies of intelligent beings who technically are another type of angel, and they volunteer to inhabit a crystal. Some of the crystals are huge and very powerful. I know they are hated by all the demonic beings, and apparently cannot be defeated by the latter.

In the “Breatharianism …” thread and other threads, it has been discussed how it is highly desirable to spend a few minutes grounding yourself at the beginning of any meditation session. One reason why this is important is that meditation, like OB travel, is an activity that makes your energies ungrounded – unless, perhaps, you have sufficiently grounded yourself beforehand.

In my experience, grounding seems to work as an effective tool for healing a whole range of problems, including some of those that Dedukshyn and Justoneman have been through.

Dare I reveal that it is your astral body or your inner body that actually does the grounding? I guess we think of grounding as connecting more fully with our physical body, and that is quite correct. However, remember that it’s the astral body that’s made of energy (and, at higher dimensions, of stuff that’s quite beyond anything we could call “energy”). So, in grounding what it does is kind of anchor itself more fully into the physical body.

You might suppose that that would make it harder for you to OB travel or meditate, but no. It’s my experience that the opposite is very much the case. In the “Breatharianism …” thread, if I’m paraphrasing correctly enough, Dawn explained how grounding involves using the energy flows through your legs and from or into your tailbone. By contrast, meditation practice usually involves working with the energy flows in the body that go through areas above the legs. And by combining the legs flows with the upper body flows, you get flows throughout the total body.

lookbeyond

30th December 2012, 09:16

Chester

30th December 2012, 13:21

Smoking weed does not initially place me only in the lower astral. In fact, what it does is it allows "me" - the actual conscious being - to be in a tremendously heightened state where I experience what I call hyper-quantum synchronicity.

Has this state then also exposed me to the elements that are determined by experienced astral travelers to be of "the lower astral?" Absolutely Yes.

...

Chester, it's great that you're willing to share in so much detail and always with interesting insights we can all learn from. I'm also very sorry to hear that you got trapped in so much pain in the past. On the other hand, the Forum Guidelines do exclude discussions of drugs, including marijuana. So, rather than making any comments on connections to OB travel, I'd prefer to make no comments. I'd also like to request everyone, out of respect for the Guidelines, not to continue bringing up the topic of drug experiences.

Hi and apologies - Chester is Chester - the experiences I shared were simply experiences which also happened to be the truth. That my experiences have involved suicide as well as drugs and alcohol are simply truths. That you ask that I not bring these things up in your thread is certainly something I will honor.

Be aware that the "forum guidelines" is as much legal disclaimers as they are hard and fast "rules." I have shared far more graphic details about my current life's experience than I did above and yet was not (knock on wood) "modded" about them from which I concluded that my presentation was acceptable within the spirit of the greater goals this forum may be intended to accomplish.

What I do realize (besides my original point that this is your thread and for that reason alone I am compelled to honor your request) is that some might take the sharing of my experiences as promotional that others explore the same things. I do believe that I have demonstrated (not just by my own sobriety) but as to how I wrap things up in posts of this nature that I recommend staying away from drugs and alcohol.

In relation to the other subject you mentioned which is contrary to forum guidelines to discuss, I again apologize that I brought these things up in this thread and won't do it again (nor respond to others who do).

Thanks for the great coaching - Hopefully the exercises that have been shared in this thread will create the result amongst those who explore OBE such that they become better people such that this world might move in a better direction or if it is actually moving in such a better direction, that it move more rapidly.

TraineeHuman

30th December 2012, 18:12

Hi TH, my Mother visited me approx 3 months after she had passed over.She touched my cheek as i was falling asleep and i recognised her "essence" then felt her pass into me as pure love.My question is if when we travel OB and are OB as hav passed, if we are then without personality/individuality, how is it i knew this was her ?

Hi again, lookbeyond. Thank you for bringing up another very good question.

Your personality is really just an electromagnetic field, but the real you is something quite other than that. (Thoughts are, physically speaking, electric or electrochemical currents. Feelings, physically, are just magnetizations.) When we die we don’t lose our essence or most of our uniqueness, any more than we could do so when/if we travel OB.

When Paracelsus re-stated the ancient principle of “as above, so below,” let me emphasize he (like the ancients before him) didn’t mean to imply it was generally true that “as below, so above”. He and others did, however, mention how the microcosm is an inferior type of copy of the macrocosm, but they stressed it is a very imperfect and highly incomplete and inadequate “copy”. But the primary point is, what lies above is and lives prior to, and in general control of, what is below.

Whatever or whoever lies above – they are able to focus on controlling some specific energy and thereby brush against a physical cheek. And yes, you very accurately observe that your mother then went inside you – because the “inner body”, like everything that is higher, lies inside.

I would say it’s more miraculous and astonishing that we infinite beings allow ourselves to squeeze into finite bodies and a world packed full of limitations. The infinite made finite, and without losing infinite significance – to me that’s the miracle. Not the fact that dead people, who are a big step back towards infinity, with a little hard work can physically brush their child’s cheek. And they do that just to remind one in an unforgettable way that underneath everything else, all that mattered was simply love and understanding.

AwakeInADream

30th December 2012, 18:43

lookbeyond

30th December 2012, 23:24

TraineeHuman

31st December 2012, 01:48

Is there a particular method or exercise by which we can meet our spirit guides or guardian angels in an OBE?

Or a way by which our guides/angels can even help us to have an OBE?

I've just re-done the exercise in post 24# and asked my higher self these questions,
and what I saw was something like this:
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4572654941504422&pid=15.1

I haven't got a clue what that might mean:confused:

AwakeInADream, I’d like to share some of my experience of the interpreting of symbols such as come up in the exercise in post #24. This is also based on my experience of working with other people to facilitate their accurate interpreting. Equally, I have found the same principles apply when it comes to interpreting any dream, whether the dream was mine or another person’s.

I have to confess I haven’t read most of the many posts there seem to be on the Forum regarding dreams, either now or in the past. So my remarks aren’t trying to target anybody in particular. They’re just stating what I and others with psychic and OB skills have over the years found to be correct principles.

One principle is that a dream is about the dreamer’s own psyche. Any supposed information in the dream is valid only relative to the dreamer’s own subjective world. I appreciate that some extremely rare individuals such as Nostradamus had “dreams” – well, actually they had visions, which are something different – that contained at least some accurate information for humanity as a whole. But to even begin to do that, you would need to have reached, or almost reached, a level of enlightenment where you do really see yourself as being, or being at all times totally one with, humanity in general. Not only that, you would need some expert psychic skills that had been refined through lengthy practice.

I have had some visions, but on a personal level, not the level of all humanity. They occurred while I was very much awake, and although they were OB experiences they were far more clear and precise and vivid than normal waking life. I also suspect that some of Justoneman’s dreams about communicating with famous people have at least a touch of personal visions about them.

But let’s get back to your question that you used the exercise in post #24 for. I’ve never known anyone to be confused by the answer their subconscious gave them when doing this exercise. So, I’m afraid I'd like to question that the immediate answer you got was, precisely, that photo. I strongly suspect that you let your clever mind interpret the actual answer, and that it decided, in its “wisdom”, that that answer looked like that photo.

This would seem to me to be missing the whole point of keeping your mind blank for a full thirty seconds. The whole reason for doing that was to minimize its interference, if only for a split second just as the answer came through. Understanding the messages coming from your dreams or your subconscious symbols (or your Higher Self) is all about getting away from all conceptual interpreting. Yet your approach seems to be to invite precisely that. There is an endless number of false paths your conceptual mind can lead you down in this situation. All of them based in some way and degree on your neuroses, your ego, your conditioning, but not on truth or reality, I'm afraid.

If I'm being quite unfair and you truly didn’t have the slightest notion of what the answer you got meant for you in your life now, then what you needed to do was to ask a second question, regarding what is the meaning of the answer you just got. But you would need to really shut that mind up, and instead just listen to the sounds of silence.

A second question would be to ask why the meaning of the answer was being blocked -- I would suggest by you,or your ego, that is.

AwakeInADream

31st December 2012, 02:16

Thank's TH :)
I didn't see the exact photo, just a small creature with big eyes. The eyes were a little bigger than that in the photo.
I had no idea what sort of animal it even was so I had to Google images for a while to find out.
If I'd have thought about it a little longer I suppose I could have figured out that big eyes were a symbol of awareness like you said,
but I was too curious about what the animal may be at first, maybe the ego was sending me down the wrong path as an act of self sabotage.
I'm too excitable sometimes, I should spend more quiet time in contemplation after the exercise, silence is golden.

Great advice about doing the exercise twice in order to illucidate the first symbol!:)
It might even be fun and instructive to do this many times in a row.

May I ask is it O.K. to count for 30 seconds during this exercise, or is it better to estimate the time?

Thank's for your detailed response!:)

TraineeHuman

31st December 2012, 02:21

TraineeHuman

31st December 2012, 02:25

Thank's TH :)
... is it O.K. to count for 30 seconds during this exercise [from post #24], or is it better to estimate the time?

Counting would tend to bring in the conceptual mind, and it's a little robotic. Better to estimate. But the first few times, have a clock handy that you can very quickly glance at when you think 30 seconds is up.

TraineeHuman

31st December 2012, 09:56

Here’s my response to several of Deneon’s issues.

… do you think it’s possible, or wise, to completely skip the ’step’ where you have a visible energy body? I for one would like to consciously see myself in an astral body, while I see my physical body lying in my bed. I would imagine this is a necessary experience, before even beginning to think about travelling without a body...

As far as I’m aware, Deneon, astral travelers usually don’t get to see their astral body. And if they do, it usually looks like a white (or maybe gold) light – at least in my experiences of astral traveling. I would also only on occasion get to see my physical body lying in bed.

But one important point here is that the only way you (believe you) know you’re OB traveling is because you see scenery, or a “movie” of pictures, that would be impossibly abnormal in the physical world. And you don’t need any kind of “body” to see that scenery or “movie”. You only need awareness, or mind.

I have been feeling these energies for just over a week now… I find it hard to explain why I got these tinglings in my feet, the very first time I actually try ’something spiritual’… I still feel them, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Why do I still feel them? Has something been permanently ’opened’ in me?

The only explanation I can come up with is that you’re a natural.

I have trouble sleeping, because it just feels as if there is too much energy in me to go to sleep. The sensations are always more intense at night, even if I do not think about them at all. It’s hard to explain, but the area around my heart then often feels as if it is shaking a little. I know this is not ’the vibrations’, its slower and less intense than that. Also it lasts for hours. It also feels like my hands and arms are shaking along. It’s almost like when you’re very cold, only you’re not. I noticed I actually sweat a lot during sleep this past week, and I have no idea why ... I don’t know if this is true, but to me it feels as if there is more energy coming into my body than flowing out and that’s why I can’t seem to fall asleep.

You’ve given a remarkably insightful and accurate description of what anyone who either has their kundalini energy awakened up to their crown chakra, or who is an experienced psychic healer, feels. I’m afraid I think you’d better get used to your body overheating. That happens because you have far more life energy flowing through your body than “normal” people do. That energy produces extra heat as a byproduct.

In India, it was fairly common in past centuries for masters of kundalini to become epileptic. As far as I’m aware, epilepsy will be brought on if the brain’s neurons become badly dehydrated – as can easily happen if they have strongly awoken their kundalini energy – which is really just the true life-energy. Some kundalini masters in India didn’t get epilepsy because they drank plenty of water throughout the day, usually with a little sea salt added. (Adding a touch of bicarbonate of soda as well is probably even better.)

I’m afraid this problem seems to afflict everybody I have known who has had fully awakened kundalini energy -- and to a lesser extent if they've had partially awakened kundalini energy You just get used to at times sweating a lot more than 99% of the population. I’ve spent full years sleeping with no pyjamas, no blanket, one or no sheets. At night, and also at unexpected times, or times when you are under pressure for whatever reason. Yes, it is a burden. But far better to carry that burden if it means you are, in a certain sense, more truly fully alive.

I can’t promise it will get better in the future. However, for the last few years I’ve worn pyjamas in winter and I’ve covered myself with a sheet or a thin blanket for most of the year except mid-summer. But one time, twelve years ago, I had a kundalini teacher who was a genuine master of kundalini energy. She observed that I had a kundalini experience that lasted non-stop for over two weeks. Although much of it felt quite subtle and not a nuisance, this happened in summer, so the sweat got particularly bad that fortnight.

(By the way, I've seen an awful lot of myth and nonsense on the internet about "kundalini". I'm somebody who has had no choice but to live with it for years, so my info is based on real life experience of myself and of other real individuals.)

Incidentally, the shaking feeling around your heart, or maybe even feeling like your heart jumped as if you had a mini heart attack, is a common experience early on. I think it's to do with the fact that your heart contains so much electricity in it, and it has something to do with adjusting to the flow of greater life-energy. I wouldn't assume it was a heart problem at all -- but then, it's possible this could be a heart problem, I suppose.

I'm sorry, but all of the above is the only information I have that seems to fit what you are describing.

TraineeHuman

1st January 2013, 02:14

Central to the teachings of Jesus, the Buddha, and others are certain ideas. I’ve already explained how the idea of greatly lightening all suffering is one such idea, and (in post #119) how the exercise in post #114 achieves this, if it is mastered.

Incidentally, Chester has indicated that he has other ways to conquer and defuse suffering. Chester, if you can articulate these not in terms of your personal history but in more impersonal terms that everyone can apply, I certainly welcome hearing them here.

Another idea is that the spiritual life involves a life of the spirit that’s somehow additional to and partly separate from the life of the flesh. Post # 119 explained how the exercise in post #114 activates that life of the spirit. See also posts #113 and #112, which partly explain what spirit is.

Related to this is the idea of needing a kind of rebirth. To quote a saying attributed to Jesus: “Unless a man [read: person] is born again, he [or she] cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.” Since “the kingdom of heaven is (entirely) within,” it must be the inner body, or else it lies within the inner body – and is its higher part, no doubt. See also post #102.

Another idea is that of reconciling the rift between the conscious and subconscious minds. In Christianity this seems to mostly come down to “the fall of mankind”. Clearly, the exercise in post #114 is an important step to reducing that rift and creating some reintegration.

Another idea is that God, or spirit, is at the same time both transcendent, or “out there”, and immanent, or “within you”. How the heck does one reconcile this gigantic contradiction? In practice, most Christians and Muslims and Jews sidestep this by considering God to be transcendent only. But the New Testament contains many statements like: “I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me.” Notice, though, that the inner body is entirely within you, and yet it also is higher, and at its deepest inner depths it is God.

I could go on considerably longer. I could also give you the Buddhist, Taoist, Sufi, Vedantist and other versions. But the point is, the exercise in post #114 seems so subtle and obvious that I’m concerned readers may not take it seriously enough, or their minds may dismiss it for being too obvious. And yet, it’s a shortcut to experiencing how any spiritually enlightened person lives. It has to be subtle, because great spiritual power is always by necessity very subtle – and simple.

lookbeyond

1st January 2013, 02:41

TraineeHuman

1st January 2013, 03:32

Hi TH, i wonder if this Watcher has anything to do with the commonly reported process experienced in NDEs of total life recall?

Good question, lb. What is the point of dreaming, and of life review, is what I see you as asking.

Each night we all go astral or OB travelling, most of the time not lucidly, but we all still do it. As we do, in a detached way we review everything that happened during the day. And we (or our HS) attempts to resolve it emotionally, partly through our dreaming. As a result we feel emotionally refreshed in the morning, and we can face the challenges of a new day usually feeling on the whole unburdened by yesterday’s dramas or boredoms.

I’m sure the NDE process is similar, except that, as you imply, the person experiencing it attempts to let go at one stroke of all their history in a physical body, rather than just the last day’s history.

Interestingly, the spiritual enlightenment process involves a psychological death very similar to the NDE. It's a shame most of us only want to review one day's burdens at a time, until we believe we're compelled by death to do more.

TraineeHuman

1st January 2013, 07:17

[
I have been reading more about life energy, chakras and so on than about OBE in the last few days. This is all very new to me. Somehow I feel I need to control this first, before I really want to try to consiously go out of body....

Yesterday during one of the times I ’woke’ up (I was never completely asleep) I felt my brow area tingle. When I tried to ’see’ with my third eye it became more intense. I didn’t actually ’see’ anything (except the kadeiloscope like imagery of light and dark) but this was the first time I think I felt my third eye.

Also, the feeling I have in my feet and lower legs also seem to be present in my hands since last night. Is it possible that something has been permanently opened in my hands as well? And should I try and open more energy centers like this? If someone has their heart chakra opened for example, will they feel it all day long?

In my experience it usually isn't productive to bother about individual chakras at all. Your energy body operates holistically. It's kind of like an orchestra, where the chakras resemble individual instruments. But it's a self-conducting orchestra. Trying to manipulate or worry about any individual chakras tends to interfere with the conductor, and therefore with the whole process. Better to keep it simple.

Lower 4D seems to be a duplicate of the physical world, but not actually the physical world, if I understand it correctly. One experiment by Buhlman for example: He blew out a lighted candle in his home when he was out of body, but when he woke up the candle was still burning in the physical world. Also, some details of the room are different (different coffeetable or color of the curtains) in the astral than they are in the physical, even though they see the people in 4D, where they are at that time in 3D. How is this possible when it's just a duplicate and not actually the physical world?

As post #140 may help to explain, if Buhlmann blew out the candle in 4D then its light would at least for a moment have gone weak in 3D. Maybe he needed to blow harder in 4D, or longer, to get it to go out. Energy does flow more readily in 4D.

Let me again emphasize that many of these skills don't get developed in a short time, so the important thing is to keep at it.

TraineeHuman

1st January 2013, 07:49

TraineeHuman

1st January 2013, 09:02

My dream with George W. Bush at around 7:00 AM US Central Time today, December 27th, 2012.
The following comments of mine would be part of how I would suggest this dream can be interpreted.

I found myself in a home. The home had several rooms. I was in the home because I was welcomed there. It was a large home that appeared to have only one floor.

According to me, there are only a few dream symbols that have universal meanings. Home is one of them. A home = your mind.

I entered a room and there was George W. Bush. We had some type of exchange... a communication of sorts but without words. I recall feeling I belonged there, I recall feeling that I am trusted and I recall having that feeling like a young soldier might when he is called in by some general to be asked to perform some special type of duty.

Putting on my professional psychologist’s hat for a moment, it seems obvious to me that you have some unresolved issues with your father. The issues have very much to do with your badly needing or wanting your father’s approval, but feeling that he withheld it all from you.

You may be actually communicating with GWB to some degree OB, but it also seems obvious that he in your wish-fulfilment dream he is an authority figure who for some reason suffices as a replacement for your father. If this famous and very powerful individual recognizes you and validates and approves of who you are and what you are doing, then who cares about your birth father anyway? Suck eggs, Dad.

... the dream then shifted to where I was in the doorway of a room that had several men in it... about 5, maybe 6. One was George W. Bush. They all were basically standing in a row about 10 feet in front of me with George W. Bush one of the guys in the center. None of the other men were anyone I might know and I got the feeling these men were part of a team and that they were intentionally unknown to the popular world.

I had the feeling i was asked to meet my team mates.

Maybe it subconsciously feels a little naughty to reject Dad in favor of GWB, but this is right, and your peers confirm it.

Strangely the next thing I knew I was driving an old, blue station wagon. I knew the car was given to me by this team.

You’re making this dream easy to interpret. One of the very few other universal dream symbols I recognize is that of a vehicle. A vehicle always stands for the course of your life.

I was on what i believe was Central Expressway in Dallas Texas heading south. I recall having this fantastic feeling that finally, I was asked officially to join the team and begin performing my missions.

Now that you feel validated and approved of, you can proceed with your life without any flat tyres or potholes.

I had zero clue what those missions might be and well, in fact... I had the strange feeling that I am actually doing my mission right now in my real, waking life... simply being me and doing what i do every day in my life which includes these strange postings I make which are all and only about my own personal experience, the conclusions I draw from them and the view points I explore and most importantly, how I allow my opinions, conclusions and view points to change (the key reason I am honored to be invited as a part of this team).

There is zero "steerage" or apparent mind control related to any of this. I am given zero instructions. All I feel I gain from these encounters as confidence that i am not alone, confidence that I have the support of some very interesting people at their deeper levels of their being and I am aware that I am very, very happy about this.

In reality, any lad lacking a strong enough inner father has to do it themselves – to wing it and learn to be a man themselves. And to gain respect and affection in the adult world on their own merits.

Strangely as well, I feel zero wrong about my posting about all this. I suspect some here will conclude I am a mind controlled MK Ultra and that I work for the Rockefeller/Bush/Nazi clan and that I am a "bad guy."

Moreover, such a person is stronger than the average person because in many ways he has had to be his own authority.

... I have no idea how to interpret these experiences but what I do know now is that I am going to begin to post all my strange psi experiences that relate specifically to George W. Bush which will point out why I think just about everyone on this planet has the wrong idea about him (as well as his Dad).

Having learnt to stand on your own feet, you can end the whole neurotic complex by forgiving your father and acknowledging that underneath all your hate and disappointment toward him, you felt love, and you knew he was OK after all.

I am certain this will all make me the most unpopular guy on the forum and very possibly might get me banned BUT, I hope I am allowed to make these posts as I am truly, only being honest, sharing actual experiences and positing my own conclusions.

And note, if I were aligned with anyone where being loyal to them required me to compromise upholding my own extremely rigid personal standards, then i would likely exit the team. I may then just retire and shut my mouth and if I am allowed to live, would inter into a focusing on my close family, perhaps some writings I might attempt to publish with regards to metaphysics and lastly, the metaphysical phase of my own bodily death.

More regarding how, having had to create yourself as your own authority figure, you can stand up to other authorities, and to unpopularity. Whoops! The dream’s already finished, so I’d better turn off my comments. Well, except that you’ve finished the post already anyway.

FrankoL

1st January 2013, 09:47

I experience quite a lot OBE's. Not completely sure if it's DNA memory direct access or real body spirit split. HT are you descendent from "royal" bloodline? This would explain why...

Yes, my mother belonged to the Merovingian and Franco-Prussian royal bloodline. I was born in Australia, but she was a migrant from a country where, up till the start of WW2, her clan had been probably the most powerful and the richest in the country.

But, can you tell us why this would be relevant?

I guess I have seen "genetic" memories coming via my cells and DNA, but as far as I'm aware that's quite different from most of the OB perceptions/awarenesses I experience.

To be honest, I don't know if it is relevant.

Not long ago I had same your belief, body spirit split and everything you describe so accurately.

However, I changed my POV when I was told very simply, there is only genetic memory passing from generation to generation (the bloodline). Basically, what you have learned and experienced it will be passed on (and everything before to certain extent). Mixing bloodlines and purification is another story...

In essence, you are almost a copy of all that was before you. Experiences of famine, lust, war, you name it. Moreover, now try to imagine that time doesn't exist. It makes more sense. Everyone before you is you. This explains past lives and all vivid dreams you have being another person. At least what I could wrap-up from my dream time. There is lot more to the story...

In real life, what is your 'benefit' in comparison to the rest, who is not having OBEs? What for you need OBEs and dream time? Does your mother have the same experiences and why they strived to mantain the bloodline?

TraineeHuman

1st January 2013, 10:23

Chester

1st January 2013, 17:56

Should I to some degree whilst doing this experiment, trust my inner imaginative vision even if it isn't lucid?

If you’re truly grounded at the time, and you truly can hold your conceptualizing mind off (like “turn the volume down” on anything it’s saying), and you raise your level of consciousness (e.g. through a little meditating), then your imaginative vision will tell you the truth. Or, at least, a nearer approximation to the truth than you’ll get otherwise. That’s how geniuses do their work.

At the moment I’m afraid I don’t know what “lucid” means. Yes, I have had plenty of experiences of believing I was “waking up” in the middle of a dream, for instance. But even at the moment I seemed to “wake up”, how do I know I wasn’t dreaming that I woke up? And how do I know that my memories of such airy-fairy things are accurate anyway? So much of “lucidity” depends on accuracy of memory. But since it all concerns things within a dream, how do I know it wasn’t fantasy-memory?

We all create our own definitions to words (or at least our own shades of the meanings) so I will share what "lucid" means to me.

My dreams can be divided into two groups.

Group A is where I am having a dream but appear only to be an observer of the dream. I am simply watching a movie in this state.

Then there is Group B - "lucid dreaming."

There are two types of dreams in this Group B - One type is a dream in which I am able to experience a conscious "direction" of the dream - just like a director of a movie (though I have never experienced full control).

The other type within Group B is when I actually see myself in the dream as one of the actors and I am able to direct "me" in the dream just like in real life but the coolest thing about this is that because I am doing so in the "subtle real" (which is another term for our "dreaming state" the actual realm is fluid (not solid) and so the realm itself is able to "change" outside of the rules we have come accustomed to in our "waking state" which is also referred to as our "gross" state of experience.

The key is that "you" whoever/whatever that is, takes an active role in the dream as the dream develops as opposed to simply being the observer.

Because I have noted these two dream states (which are actually three because of the two types of "lucid dreaming" I do, I found an interesting parallel to what those who are taught the practice of meditation sometimes achieve which is the experience of being the awareness behind the awareness of "me" or (the awareness of the face behind the face).

This is a "trinity" relationship and because I am able to experience all three of these "perspectives" and enjoy them all, I am not married to any single one of them as some do who discover the absolute and who discover non-dual awareness.

So "lucid" dreaming is where "i" (whoever/whatever "I" might be) take an conscious, active roll in the development of the dream.

I have been able to enjoy battle with all sorts of horrors in the dream state and found the simple, always easy to do, never failing technique that when "the bad guys" have me surrounded - I simply wake up!

No suffering - simply enjoyment of the interesting movie I just experienced. I shake off horrific dreams the instant I wake and then I reflect on the dream, see how it symbolically applies to may waking state of mind and allow myself to perform the mind exercise that ends with the same conclusion - all these states are "dream" states from one perspective - even this very rigid waking state.

Chester

1st January 2013, 18:03

Incidentally, Chester has indicated that he has other ways to conquer and defuse suffering. Chester, if you can articulate these not in terms of your personal history but in more impersonal terms that everyone can apply, I certainly welcome hearing them here.

Hi TraineeHuman - I would enjoy responding properly to this inquiry but I have several difficulties in doing so -

I would not be able to answer the question specifically without crossing the line of discussing a subject you asked that I avoid - the subject of self-termination. In addition, I could not give a proper answer as to my process without sharing it in the context of my own personal experience.

Perhaps I might do this in my recently created thread over in the UFO Category... if you and others here ask me so to do.

I have continued to enjoy this thread tremendously - thanks TraineeHuman and all contributors. - justoneman

Chester

1st January 2013, 18:40

... I went to the Horus-Ra thread and discovered a post that essentially painted the picture that the experiences some of us have had with other dimensional entities was simply illnesses within our own individual minds and had no foundation in actual reality and could not be proved.

This post is from someone who has had amazing personal experiences in the “astral” and actually has spent two generations performing “rescue work” in the astral realm. He has, admittedly, been in contact and received the attention of one of the most respected and renowned “ascended masters” and I doubt you will find a more loving and wonderful human being on earth today.

And yet, his view essentially insinuates that my experiences (much less all the others who have had first hand encounters with alien beings, extra dimensional beings, etc is simply and only delusions within the mind of the individual perceiver.

This post was quite devastating to me and for this reason.

Many of us on earth today that have had these experiences are seeking a better world for our children. When an individual with the stature of the one who made the post takes the position our experiences are simply delusions of our own (and with an implication – sick and/or delusional) minds because

a.) he has not had these types of experiences and he perceives himself an authority on the matter

b.) because his ascended master friend and all the other Spirit beings he has encountered have influenced his thinking that there could not possibly be more to the story than what he has concluded and

c.) that none of us can prove to him with enough evidence of proof that he would agree is valid proof that our experiences are more (and in my opinion far, far more) than just simple creations within our own, individual minds.

So eventually I was able to go to sleep – around 2:30 or 3:00 AM.

I had the most incredible lucid dream. I dreamed I was on a planet where the ground all around us was caving in. water was rushing over the land that was collapsing. I could tell i was with many people and yet I was definitely worried about myself. I did not perceive any specific loved ones yet i was with others I knew and cared about. We were all running to buildings and places where we thought we could be safe. The ground was actually swarming. At the end of the dream (just before I did what i always do when i have a dream I begin to not like – which is to intentionally wake myself up), the ground had collapsed all around a small piece of land which had a small building which I and others were in. I saw the last stages of ground just outside the window falling in and the water rushing over it. I knew the next thing that could happen was that the ground holding up this small building would collapse. That is when I woke myself up.

At the moment of awakening, as opposed to prior to my joining Avalon where I would be in a pretty deep state of shock, I was instantly analytical about this lucid dream experience. It was truly amazing. I did not do like some folks have done, where I consider my astral/dream experience might be a foretelling of the future of mankind. Instead I realized I had it in the context of the experiences I just endured in my waking state. Two HUGE devastating experiences for me personally that I experienced just before sleep... and then this incredible “dream” where I lucidly participated.

Anyways – I had to post this here as definitely it includes an amazing and wonderful (yes wonderful OBE experience).

Why did I “enjoy” what appears to have been a nightmare? Because I no longer doubt at all whatsoever that whatever of me is real is also safe and can never, ever be threatened. This allows me to have any type of experience with essentially zero fear.
...

Interesting that you immediately had a vivid and lucid experience that obviously contradicted the assertions the other member had made.

Just for the record, most of the people I know who have expertise which might be equal to that of that member claim that the whole notion of "ascended masters" is phoney, if not indeed a neurotic delusion.

Also, I can remember being a higher-dimensional being before I was conceived, and I can recall the whole process of my conception in great detail. I can assure you that was in no way a delusion. Some memories are so much more vivid than anything else.

I'm also actually not necessarily impressed if somebody does rescue work in 4D. I mean, before I was conceived, as I just mentioned, I remember working as a 6D being for many generations in the position of a guardian angel. I've also spent long periods of time in that position in relation to this planet (not to mention other planets), including at times when other intelligent species than human beings were the intelligent species I worked to support.

But I would have thought maybe you are probably being terribly unfair to this person by painting him as such an inflexible know-it-all? I don't know; maybe you're just making fair comment.

I must admit, though, that up till now I haven't read any full posts on the Horus-Ra thread because I saw parts of such posts and some of them seemed to me ridiculously paranoid. That's not to deny, in the light of your comments, Chester, that there isn't some sort of valid phenomenon in there somewhere. Certainly, I know that demonic (dead) humans are real, by direct experience, though my experience of them has been very limited. I mostly just seem to meet the good, positive guys.

I am complex and my mind thinks in complex abstract ways so I will do my best to simplify.

I have found all too often folks who have had incredible explorations in the non waking state express to others and myself their experiences. Nothing wrong with that.

Some folks who do that then sometimes go the next step and suggest details of the structure and/or "beings" encountered in the non waking state to be THE one and only truthful or divinely organized structure. Still perhaps nothing necessarily wrong with that.

But when they then declare that what others experience in either their non-waking state and/or their waking state that does not reconcile with the structure they envision as THE divine structure and go the next step of stating that other person's experiences are nothing but delusions of their own (implication "ill" mind) I take exception to that and consider it completely and entirely hypocritical.

The worlds of an explorer of the non-waking state can never be proven in our "waking state" physical world rule set. Thus how could one person's non-waking state realms of experience be categorically painted as THE actual and only set of realms and anyone who has experiences that does not fit into that person's model is simply and sadly delusions.

I see all possibility. I have experienced how I, a single "being" is able to create a relationship with the "all that is" and have vast, complex conversations with "it." I have also found how there is some deeper level of me that seems intrinsically linked to these realms I explore and that these realms take on a form which is subjectively influenced. Thus I honor all experiences of all who have experiences and honor their interpretation of those experiences for the simple reason i have proven to myself my subjective role in the development of what I experience therefore how could I possibly tell anyone else their experience is delusional?

I hope this has been clarified.

Now for the last hope of simplifying my point -

I don't know but I know that you (not you, TraineeHuman nor Ray nor anyone in particular) don't know also... so, please, honor that we all have our own non waking state realms to explore and no one's is any less valid than yours.

And if those experiences spill over into the waking state - such as has happened with Daughter of Time and wynderer and some others who have shared their experiences in relation to the perception they have been abducted - those experiences should be honored that they were real for the experiencer.

That is all I hoped to communicate and I am firm (today) in my position.

Based upon that point, I suggested that folks open their mind that our experiences, no matter at what level and through which state (waking or dreaming or the causal state) through which we have our experience could have the potential to be influenced by third parties.

It is possible that the experiences one might have with "ascended masters" is not only realm, but shared by many. And these ascended masters may appear to supply incredible love and wisdom, etc. At the same time, it is also possible that a "third party" might actually be manipulating these wonderful ascended masters such that those they encounter buy into paradigms where all is well as you need to go through lifetimes and lifetimes of "learning" so that you can also "ascend" where in the meantime we have folks experiencing the very most horrific waking state experiences at this very moment.

It seems too convenient to me the idea some of our fellow human beings promote "reincarnation" as if it is some benevolent "god's" divine plan for the "evolution of our soul" where they rule out the possibility that there could be a third party involved that benefits from those who buy into this view and that benefit results in our turning a blind eye to the horrors that occur daily in our waking state on this planet.

I don't know if this is the case or not but neither does anyone else.

Hopefully this is clear now.

And thanks TraineeHuman for providing me the opportunity to clarify my view.

The saddest part for me, personally, is that I barely survived what appears to be a relationship I have had (and may still have) with what also appears to be a third party and which I have significant (yet circumstantial) evidence is what some have come to call a Horus-Ra "entity." This could all and only be some delusion within my own mind, despite the mountain of synchronistic finger pointing that would cause the raising of eyebrows of any rational, unbiased investigator who looked at the evidence.

What I have experienced is very, very real (to me). How then could I (nor anyone else who has had experiences from the non waking state posit the position these experiences of others are simply delusional and there's are the actual (and divinely ordained to boot!) - I smell a rat.

Perhaps we are all delusional. I am open minded to anything.

Chester

1st January 2013, 19:41

Chester

1st January 2013, 20:04

Do you believe that only the physical exists – that spirit is just an epiphenomenon of the body? (In the world of Western academic philosophy, the view that everything is ultimately physical is well known to lead to a very incomplete picture of reality.)

And how would you explain all my experiences of communicating with dead people and beings, some of whom I have never known? Your comments would seem to imply that there is no such thing as an afterlife. So, according to you is it all hallucination? What about experiences I have which are far more vivid than anything I experience in the physical world?

And what about, e.g., my memories of being conceived, for instance? Not the physical act, but the business that went on in a higher plane. Is that fantasy, according to you?

One of my very best personal friends is a professional medium. She does not do what she does for "the money" as she does not need money as she is quite wealthy. The clients she takes on are all and only recommended to her by her former clients (thus all and only through wrod of mouth).

She takes on a client because she cares to help folks who are dealing with the loss of a loved one.

The primary reason she has such great respect and appreciation from her clients is because she is always able to prove to the clients she is indeed in communication with the target Spirit being by telling her clients one or more things the Spirit being knows the client will know that is otherwise an unknown fact to the public much less something that might be known to my friend.

Now I have had hundreds of psi experiences with my friend that were not of the medium variety and so I know her abilities first hand. But this one specific talent proves unequivocally to me that there's far more to life than than the simple passing down of "genetic memories."

I have also developed my own psi abilities where I know this as well.

I recall when I was younger and had the view as shared by FrankoL. I also recall when I was involved with mid level "illumed and nutty" operatives that they were all caught up on bloodlines and genetics, which have their valid place in the bigger picture, but which they viewed as the only valid components in the equation of what life's all about.

I suggest one considers "who" or "what" might benefit that "we" share that type of narrow view?

Perhaps that view (though it appears to be narrow) turns out at the end of the day to be the actual, correct view... I am wide open minded to everything... but my intuition smells a rat.

Who knows?

I have found it emotionally draining (as well as unnecessarily exposing) to get too wound up about others views yet at the same time, I always seem to challenge anyone who attempts to impose their own view on another while at the same time ridiculing the view of that same other unless their view honors equally an opposing view (as I strive to do).

TraineeHuman

2nd January 2013, 01:54

Do you believe that only the physical exists – that spirit is just an epiphenomenon of the body? ...
And how would you explain all my experiences of communicating with dead people and beings, some of whom I have never known? Your comments would seem to imply that there is no such thing as an afterlife. So, according to you is it all hallucination? What about experiences I have which are far more vivid than anything I experience in the physical world?

And what about, e.g., my memories of being conceived, for instance? Not the physical act, but the business that went on in a higher plane. Is that fantasy, according to you?

One of my very best personal friends is a professional medium. She does not do what she does for "the money" as she does not need money as she is quite wealthy. The clients she takes on are all and only recommended to her by her former clients (thus all and only through word of mouth).

She takes on a client because she cares to help folks who are dealing with the loss of a loved one.

The primary reason she has such great respect and appreciation from her clients is because she is always able to prove to the clients she is indeed in communication with the target Spirit being by telling her clients one or more things the Spirit being knows the client will know that is otherwise an unknown fact to the public much less something that might be known to my friend.

Now I have had hundreds of psi experiences with my friend that were not of the medium variety and so I know her abilities first hand. But this one specific talent proves unequivocally to me that there's far more to life than than the simple passing down of "genetic memories."

I have also developed my own psi abilities where I know this as well.

I recall when I was younger and had the view as shared by FrankoL. ... I suggest one considers "who" or "what" might benefit that "we" share that type of narrow view?

... my intuition smells a rat.

Quite right, Chester. The position FrankoL espouses forces him to believe that, e.g., all mediumship phenomena, even the really accurate professional mediums and clairvoyants, is pure fantasy.

FrankoL, I don’t agree that I believe anything, when it comes to what’s most important. I don't believe. I take pains to find out how much I don't know, and how much I know. I chose to be born to parents both of whom were atheists, and whose programming of me was all directed at trying to make me materialistic and to be a rich person in my adulthood, and to avoid and devalue anything spiritual or psychic.

FrankoL, let me try to describe the sort of reason why I take it you believe that the whole idea of “spirit” is just an illusion. In the late 1950s Gilbert Ryle, the Professor of Philosophy at Cambridge, completed a small, easy-to-read book called The concept of mind. In that book he very concisely and simply summarized all the possible explanations anyone could come up with of what “mind” is.

He went through each possible explanation and very simply explained why each explanation has absurd implications – or else it implies that what he called “pantheism” must be true. There were at least about five explanations which led to “pantheism” or else they fell over.

His conclusion was that while we suppose that there is something we call “mind’, that whole notion is illusory. That in effect, we are seeing a complex machine and using the concept of mind because we want to explain its workings by saying there must be a ghost in the machine running it all.

His conclusion depended on the assumption that “pantheism” – or, rather, the existence of one Great Spirit in us all -- is untrue. However, a majority of the members of this Forum subscribe to the notion of that Great Spirit, or something similar.

In my case, I experienced the Great Spirit directly and in a fairly full way at the age of fifteen. So, I don’t believe anything. I either know, or I don’t know. And in this case I know.

I do appreciate, though, that some spiritual people get to a point where they deeply realise that at a deep level reality is profoundly unified. And that a sharp split between “matter” and “spirit” cannot be the deeper truth. Through insight or analysis such as along the lines of Gilbert Ryle’s, they opt to say that everything that’s real must be matter, and the rest must be illusion. This is in contrast to the majority view on this Forum, that everything that’s real is spirit, and that matter is just a denser form of spirit.

If I was addressing professional philosophers I could point to many huge inadequacies in punting in favor of matter, despite all the conditioning of recent centuries to favor such a choice. Instead, though, let me give you all a very quick (and very partial) critique of the whole notion of “matter” just as it has been explored by physicists. (Believe me, a philosophical critique would leave the notion of “matter” in even greater tatters.)

The history of physics has been to attempt to analyse what “matter” is. Since the early twentieth century, however, it has been discovered that where “matter” was assumed to exist there is only forms and space. Absolutely nothing else. Even subatomic “particles”, on analysis, have been proved to reduce to nothing but form and space. (I understand this inspired movements like abstract expressionism to emerge.)

Moreover, it has been proved that supposedly inert space is always “curved”. Here, if physicists were intellectually honest, they wouldn’t call it “curved” but “intelligent”, or “active”. But physicists have assumed in advance that the only thing that is real is matter. Hence, since “empty” space contains no matter, they dare not even hint to the public that non-matter could also be at work in the universe.

Similarly, it has more recently been proved beyond all doubt that at least 80% of the physical universe contains something which is not matter and not energy. What do the physicists do here? They certainly don’t call it “mind” – which they should morally do if they were truly “objective” in the debate regarding “mind” versus “matter”. Instead, even though they have totally proved that it cannot be matter nor energy, they insist on calling it “dark matter and dark energy”. (they should either call it "dark space", or else admit that something completely unlike matter lies "above" and has considerable impact on or control over matter.) Talk about conditioning. Talk about clinging to a belief system in the face of some of the most undeniable facts in the whole history of modern science.

And in the societies and academies of sciences, none dare call it conspiracy.

Chester

2nd January 2013, 02:10

Great post #161 - you nailed it. I would add that experiments such as the Double Slit experiment demonstrate how the observer affects the observation which suggests the subjective/objective relationship we share and how consciousness is unarguably tied to what we call "matter."

Of course, then one must experiment with what is known as "magic" - something I found very early on was far less interesting than simply experiencing the magic of the all where a greater intelligence than me - which one might call Great Spirit as TH does has a far better show to be in than the one I have tried to make on my own.

As I mentioned in other posts there's some cool slogans I discovered through AA - one is "Let go and let God... I just replace the word "God" due to all the polarization that word carries with the two words "Great Spirit" and then I apply the slogan.

This is why I simply love life and enjoy life's challenges.

TH - I will post some of my stuff in my other thread sometime in the morning when I am fresh with a few cups of coffee. I will do it all respectful of the intentions behind the forum guidelines. I also studies a bit about that pantheism materials - it did not click with me. justoneman

TraineeHuman

2nd January 2013, 08:39

,,, I will share what "lucid" means to me.

My dreams can be divided into two groups.

Group A is where I am having a dream but appear only to be an observer of the dream. I am simply watching a movie in this state.

Then there is Group B - "lucid dreaming."

There are two types of dreams in this Group B - One type is a dream in which I am able to experience a conscious "direction" of the dream - just like a director of a movie (though I have never experienced full control).

The other type within Group B is when I actually see myself in the dream as one of the actors and I am able to direct "me" in the dream just like in real life but the coolest thing about this is that because I am doing so in the "subtle real" (which is another term for our "dreaming state" the actual realm is fluid (not solid) and so the realm itself is able to "change" outside of the rules we have come accustomed to in our "waking state" which is also referred to as our "gross" state of experience.

The key is that "you" whoever/whatever that is, takes an active role in the dream as the dream develops as opposed to simply being the observer.

Because I have noted these two dream states (which are actually three because of the two types of "lucid dreaming" I do, I found an interesting parallel to what those who are taught the practice of meditation sometimes achieve which is the experience of being the awareness behind the awareness of "me" or (the awareness of the face behind the face).
...

So "lucid" dreaming is where "i" (whoever/whatever "I" might be) take an conscious, active roll in the development of the dream.

I have been able to enjoy battle with all sorts of horrors in the dream state and found the simple, always easy to do, never failing technique that when "the bad guys" have me surrounded - I simply wake up!
...

You're right, Chester. Lucid dreaming is when we take control and change the dream itself, or at least how we behave within the dream.

However, one can also be actively OB, and aware that one is aware while OB, without dreaming or being asleep or having one's eyes closed at the time.

Your mentioning you've kept a dream journal reminds me that there's another exercise everyone needs to do. That is to keep a dream journal by their bed, and to write in it, as far as possible, within the first minute of waking up, including times when you wake up during the night and manage to actually get out of bed.

For many individuals, this seems to be possibly the most helpful exercise for learning to gain more control of their OB travel.

TraineeHuman

2nd January 2013, 09:54

Some further thoughts about lucidity, and about the problem of how does a beginner learn to go lucid regularly?

As I've mentioned, early on I learnt to "hover" with eyes open in any relatively quiet situation in ordinary life. For instance, around that time I mostly used public transport. I had a long bus trip to and from my place of work each day. I could deliberately "hover", so because it was deliberate, and I would turn it on and off at will, you could maybe almost, but not quite,say that was "lucid". What I also found was that whenever the bus went around a corner quickly -- which some buses did -- for some months it initially felt to me as if I was losing grip of my body altogether. Very scary, though thrilling, except for the scary part. The feeling was quite similar to how you feel on a roller coaster at those moments when you could absolutely swear the coaster car you are sitting in is definitely going to crash, or fall off the rails.

That reminds me of one thing I used to experience during my first three years of nightly astral travel. The beginning would always involve a feeling in the solar plexus that seemed as if my belly was collapsing altogether. Almost like I was about to become nauseous and vomit, except the vomiting never came and even the nausea vanished quickly too. After years of daily practice, though, I eventually stopped noticing that sensation, and various others.

So, I would conclude that beginners need to get to the point where they're used to certain strange sensations, particularly the one in the belly and the Vibrations, until they can just about ignore them, because they've become second nature. Once such distractions are out of the way, then the OB traveler can focus on controling and modifying their whole OB journey -- a control which seems to amount to "lucidity".

Chester

2nd January 2013, 12:48

Last night I was (dreaming) i was in a small studio setting with the band Pink Floyd though I only recognized David Gilmour (who had long hair but was near his age now...) and I was one of the invited guests to watch their performance. Now get this - and this makes zero sense... Pee Wee Herman was involved and he appeared to be playing the role of a producer and/or sound engineer. The dream was vivid and I was very lucid. The invited guests were no more than a dozen of us as it was in a small studio. Also, all the instruments were acoustic and the band had 5 or 6 overall band members. All sat in chairs with Gilmour in the center. I do not know if Roger Waters nor any other member of that band was there but it was definitely Pink Floyd and not David Gilmour and a band...

Was a cool and fun dream and I awoke once and because the dream was so fun, I made myself fall back asleep so the dream might continue (a technique I also use sometimes... especially when I have a bad dream and want to make the dream turn good).

Anyways I promised to post some stuff in my other thread but I am friends with Peter Moon (from the Montauk materials) and he asked me to review his latest newsletter called the Montauk Pulse - I have emerged as a minor role player for him... in this case I send him what I believe should be corrections. I really will get to this promised post but life happens and I do my best to prioritize. In this case its a favor for a friend that came up... hope ya'll understand.

to TH - I hope one day to learn how to OB from my waking state. In fact, Peter Moon is a "bi-location" specialist since the 70s... a technique he learned while involved with the early good old days of Scientology. He is now all into the Tao and Chi Gong. Take Care... Chester

FrankoL

2nd January 2013, 15:03

I agree on what you have been pointing out. We will never completely understand or agree what physical is all about. However, physical world can be experienced for everyone in exactly the same way, for all living beings (physical/natural laws). No exception. Therefore we should pay much more attention on how the game is being played out. Here and now.

Imagine you have only one chance to play. The knowledge is essential for you to survive. Your lineage depends on it. Prime example is animal world, so cruel, so real. Only the smartest and the healthiest survive. It is exactly the same to ours without a veil of delusion.

It might happen that current abundance will vanish and it might no longer support your continued existence as you know it. Once the financial façade is removed no medium will help you out. Guaranteed! Physical world is survival. Again, how the construct is built is not even relevant and is impossible to grasp.

I acknowledge other realms to exist, within me. I assume everyone has their own inner world. Each one is different and therefore impossible to ‘standardize’ principals in contrast to material realm (individual experiences, knowledge). Inner world is entirely your instrument to know yourself (direct access to accumulated knowledge). Most likely is being discarded in favor of illusion/self delusion. It is risky to take part in a play not knowing the role. In addition, human body is highly programmable, for obvious reason. Especially at night. All in all, I share same your opinion that body and mind are two different sides of the same coin.

To cut to the chase, there is only a slight difference in both philosophies. Either you never die or one bet at your disposal. Which would be recommendation to the enemy?

TraineeHuman

2nd January 2013, 18:45

FrankoL, I don't agree that people have only one bet and it is this lifetime, while they have this physical body. I see that as ancient fear-mongering from the Egyptian religion. On the other hand, although it's true that every one of us is eternal, it's possible an individual could remain eternally "asleep". That's why it's so important that everyone finds a way to wake up, to understand how to be The Watcher or (at least) their 6D self or their HS, or whatever you call it. The physical world is a world of contrast, and in that contrast there is opportunity to learn that one doesn't get in the even slightly higher worlds. Don't stay asleep for eternity, folks. Even if you can keep reincarnating in some physical world indefinitely, what will survive death won't be most of who you think you are, if you're asleep like probably the majority of the population. That's why it's important to travel OB or meditate masterfully -- so that you know that the detached part is the real you, and that's what goes on forever.

TraineeHuman

3rd January 2013, 07:03

Last night I was (dreaming) i was in a small studio setting with the band Pink Floyd though I only recognized David Gilmour (who had long hair but was near his age now...) and I was one of the invited guests to watch their performance. Now get this - and this makes zero sense... Pee Wee Herman was involved and he appeared to be playing the role of a producer and/or sound engineer. The dream was vivid and I was very lucid....
Was a cool and fun dream and I awoke once and because the dream was so fun, I made myself fall back asleep so the dream might continue (a technique I also use sometimes... especially when I have a bad dream and want to make the dream turn good).

to TH - I hope one day to learn how to OB from my waking state. In fact, Peter Moon is a "bi-location" specialist since the 70s... a technique he learned while involved with the early good old days of Scientology. He is now all into the Tao and Chi Gong. ..

Firstly, it's noticeable to me how similar this dream seems, in its general themes, to the one with GWB. It's good to ask yourself what is the dream trying to show you that you're not facing about yourself? Maybe -- just to give an example -- some kind of feeling of inferiority? Maybe -- more likely -- the opposite: of being very much unrecognised for your true talents and valuable contributions? Maybe that at the moment, for whatever reason, you need plenty of proof -- or just a little reassurance -- to yourself of just how valuable and intelligent and out-of-the-box thinking and living you are?

Secondly, I find Q'i Gong very powerful, and would recommend it to everyone. Even though it's exercise, it's still a very valid form of meditation -- which is quite a paradox in itself. I love to do walking q'i gong. But I don't do it much because fifteen minutes of it it leaves me sort of intoxicated with bliss for hours afterwards. I haven't met anybody else on whom it has quite that effect. It's great for anybody, though. A woman in China cured herself of very advanced cancer just through practising it. And, it's a great way to safely learn to begin to bi-locate. That's because you're doing the exercise, and therefore in your body, yet the energizing is so strong that your energy body gets stronger than normal, and hence you're more aware of it than normally.

AwakeInADream

3rd January 2013, 10:50

Q'i Gong sounds good! How do you do it?

Edit: Bi-location? Is that a physical thing, or more like an OBE?

TraineeHuman

3rd January 2013, 11:24

AwakeInADream, I don't have drawings to show anyone how to do walking q'i gong. I do know that many Chinese people seem to consider it the most precious secret treasure of their culture. (Vietnamese and Cambodians also, but they're semi-Chinese anyway.)

Basically, before each step forward you swing both arms forward parallel to each other and bending at the elbows so that the hands are roughly vertical at the top of the forward swing. Having completed the forward swing, you'll extend the arms and swing them backward as far as they'll go behind you, still vertically parallel to each other all the way. As soon as you begin the backward swing, you raise one of your knees vertically, then swing the foot below it forwards (from the knee) and then back to where it was when you raised your knee initially (a moment ago). Then you stamp the heel of that foot vertically down very hard indeed, only several inches forward of where it began, As you stamp the heel, your arms should at that instant be passing from forward of your body to behind.

That's basically the simple version, except that as you stamp you breathe out strongly; and before that, you slowly breathe in throughout the time your arms are swinging forward. You do the above with one leg, then the other, then back to the first leg, and so on.

Ideally, after about ten steps you also do it walking backwards as well as forwards. The backwards walk is almost the same as for forwards,except that your foot comes down several inches behind instead of in front.

There is also an abdominal breathing routine that's supposed to go with this. But I've never managed to do that, and I still get results that feel amazing. My coordination isn't fantastic when I do it either, but that doesn't seem to matter. It does take practice to learn to coordinate your breathing in and out with your arm-swinging and stepping.

Bilocation is experiencing OB phenomena at the same time as you're fully awake and also experiencing physical world phenomena.

TraineeHuman

4th January 2013, 01:33

More about lucidity and also about q’i gong. When performing walking q’i gong, you need to be aware that you’ll leave some negative energy for about a full ten meters behind you. It’s a good idea not to have your back towards your home or your car or friends. You’ll also create quite strong positive energy for a similar distance in front of you.

Strangely, it’s quite safe to do q’i gong outdoors in the open. This is because that exercise incorporates plenty of grounding techniques. This is in contrast to meditating, or, for a beginner, astral traveling outdoors. Let me explain about the latter two.

I remember how in the first three plus years when I was regularly astral travellling I noticed I was usually using the ceiling and walls of my bedroom as directional benchmarks. I used these both while exiting the physical body and usually while returning to it. It was much easier that way. It enabled me to get some out-of-body bearings before I went rushing off somewhere.

It can be dangerous even for many very experienced meditators to meditate outdoors. This is so because there are no flat, very obvious directional indicators on the same scale as walls are. So, your energy field’s location can be somewhat unknown to you, hence the danger of being influenced by who knows what energy from elsewhere . However, many experienced meditators receive strong protection from nature spirits. For instance, no doubt this is what Dawn received in her late night wanderings in the wild that she describes near the beginning of the “Breatharianism…” thread.

Meditators simply concentrate on doing the process of meditation, and forgetting anything else. Unless they’re very experienced, they therefore don’t notice that deep meditation normally takes them OB. At the same time, meditation puts them in a state where they are more aware, more awake. So, we get the paradox that meditators go OB (or bilocated) but often or usually don’t notice, even though they are “awake” at the time.

lookbeyond

4th January 2013, 03:06

Hi TH, is it possible when OOB to not be able to find your body, even if indoors?
thx-lb

TraineeHuman

4th January 2013, 05:59

Hi TH, is it possible when OOB to not be able to find your body, even if indoors?
thx-lb

Thank you, lb. I’m sure I managed to confuse other people as well. My apologies, folks.

Your inner body is the real you, so you can never lose that. What may have confused people might be better rephrased as follows.

Firstly, a person who is learning astral travel is well advised initially to use the walls and ceiling of their bedroom to help develop a sense of being in some other location than their physical body.

Secondly, I unfortunately let slip that there can be a danger in meditating out in the open. However, what I do is I visit a beautiful place several times before I try to meditate there. The first time I go, I consciously introduce myself to the most senior nature spirits – who mostly like to hang out near the tops of some of the tallest trees. One of the next times I visit, I notice or sense them welcoming me, and then I know they will provide any protection I may need while meditating there. I do occasionally also come across some natural areas where the spirits really don’t want any humans there, period.

Maybe the question could be turned around to ask: Can a person lose their connection to their physical body while OB?

When a person completely loses their connection to their physical body, that is what we call death. At any other time, the higher body (or higher being) remains connected to the physical body by the silver cord. This seems to me to be made of pure light, rather than energy. Its color is actually violet, with many bright glowing white points along it. I happen to have noticed that my silver cord was the thing that pulled me down and into the physical world, awaiting birth, after I was conceived. I assume that’s where this cord comes from in everyone’s case.

These days I avoid the 4D world as far as possible, but when I first used to travel in it I would always locate and see that silver cord. It was very reassuring back then to know that it was there, and that if I kind of tugged on it I’d be back in my body smoothly in a matter of seconds.

It’s a shame not every astral traveler seems to be able to see this cord. However, any OOB traveler who desires to return to their body tugs on this cord often without realizing they’re doing it. It’s like a reflex action. And it always quickly returns them back – sometimes too quickly, as in sleep paralysis. But everyone should rest assured it's always there and it always brings you back safely. Also, if you're in a tight spot in a dream, you can use it to wake up and end the dream, which Chester has mentioned he did (well, he got out of the unpleasant dream by ending it, even if he didn't know he was pulling the safety cord).

My mother used to be extremely clairvoyant. When she died, she tried to wait until I was asleep. I think her intention was perhaps that I would somehow escort her where she needed to go via the dream world, and allay her fear. However, that night I felt very energized, no doubt because she had been reaching out to me in some way. Also, everybody releases a great deal of energy as they die, and even just before and afterwards. I stayed up till almost 5 a.m. completing some work, since extra energy was available. Several minutes after I fell asleep, she departed from her physical body. She felt very confused, and a few minutes later I was woken up to find her attempting to walk-in into my physical body. For five minutes it felt partly like a wrestling match, and as if she were trying to lodge on and in my back and the back of my neck. I seemed to win the wrestling match, but as she withdrew she said that at that point she realised her attempt to take my body had been ethically not right.

Obviously, she had known immediately that she had lost her physical body. And she did then initially feel lost in her astral body – but she had certainly not lost her astral body.

I remember reading how on one occasion Ramana Maharshi went “absent” from his body for I think over two weeks before coming back. In the meantime his body was kind of frozen in a state of paralysis. I guess that proves it’s possible to get so engrossed OB that for two weeks one can forget that one has a physical body. So maybe it’s the physical body that one can misplace, rather than one’s astral body.

lookbeyond

4th January 2013, 06:50

TraineeHuman

4th January 2013, 11:56

Hi TH i did mean was it possible to not find your physical body when astral travelling, so from wht u are saying the silver cord prevents this.What would hav happened to your AB if your Mum had displaced your AB and entered your PB?-lb

My mum would then have become what’s known as a “walk-in”. There was some discussion of walk-ins on the Forum around two years ago. In my experience, walk-ins are rare, but most of the walk-ins I do know about for sure involved the new “inhabitant” pushing the old one out against their will, through simply being more powerful beings.

In my mother’s case, while wrestling with me she tried to sell me the picture telepathically that it would be convenient for me to end my life at that point. She somehow knew that I didn’t have much of a fear of death, and would be happy enough to move on if the time had come.

If a walk-in is successfully carried out, the former owner of the body in effect dies and goes through almost the normal process, such as playing a tape of their whole life up to the point of departure over and over.

Chester

4th January 2013, 15:09

Hi TH and thread contributors and viewers.

I made a post here -

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53799-Horus-Ra-justoneman-s-spinoff-thread&p=610748#post610748

that relates to a quote of THs which was in regards to one of my dreams. I posted in my own goofy thread as it just seems wiser this post is over there and not derail this thread as this thread is moving along great in its intended direction.

Best to All - Chester

TraineeHuman

5th January 2013, 00:50

The underlying motivation behind wanting to look at your dreams is an admirable one. After all, nearly all dreams do take place in 4D or higher. Which means they’re evidence of an area where you are being at least somewhat “awake” there as a spirit.

It does sadden my heart, though, that many members don’t seem to get it. Most dreams are messages from your HS, but they’re about precisely the last things you want to listen to right now about yourself. Those messages are always very, very simple when/if you get to hear the real message. Way simpler than the intellectual interpreting I’ve seen even in this thread. Problem is, your whole conscious mind, under the influence of your ego, always puts on a diversionary operation to try to throw you way off track. Unless you can learn the truth of this through direct experience, you probably won’t be able to accept this. That means you’ll waste plenty of time playing intellectual games of so-called dream analysis. They won’t serve you really. They’re an insult to the HS, that’s for sure.

I’ve already given one exercise – in post #24 – that will even help you to begin to learn how to listen to the symbolic language your HS uses. I’ve already talked about some of this in post #143.

I’m not saying, either, that critical and conceptual analysis aren’t very important in raising our level of consciousness and awareness. But certainly not when it comes to looking at dreams. I guess that topic of why analysis is important in certain areas deserves a post of its own.

AwakeInADream

5th January 2013, 04:49

Hi TraineeHuman!:)

I've got a few (just curiosity) questions for you.

Have you ever tested the validity of your OBE experience with an experiment, like getting a friend to place an unusual object somewhere and you going OBE to find out what it is?
(That would be one of the first things I'd do, just to prove it to myself)

Also. Have you ever been anywhere 'top secret' like Area 51, The Vatican's Vault's, Under the Pyramid's or to the Moon?
(Jake mentions in his Ebook that he couldn't get to the Moon as a voice warned him off)

This brings up another question...

Do Governments and other agencies have some form of psychic protection to stop people from entering their facilities during OBE's?

Oh! And How far can a person go in OBE? Is it possible to leave this Solar System/Galaxy/Universe?

TraineeHuman

5th January 2013, 06:31

I don’t use OB travel these days unless it’s for a specific purpose. I do use it for psychic healing. At least four or five of the eight members I mentioned visiting earlier on told me I had described some details about them very accurately. Also three others who subsequently requested healing for themselves and a relative or two have also told me I described I think all of them, and their current biggest problem, accurately.

But I do find myself sometimes using it to find out important information regarding my individual wellbeing or my career, and so on. I don’t go poking around in other people’s business, and certainly not in places like defence installations. They have extensive psychic protection of their own set up these days to block anybody from “reading” them. Maybe that’s why the teachers of remote viewing all went public. Maybe such psychic masking meant they couldn’t probe Russian or Chinese installations any longer through remote viewing?

One good example of the type of information-gathering I use OB travel for nowadays was something that happened several decades back. At that time I belonged to what it seems to me was in effect a sect/cult even though its members led normal lives and worked normally. I had grown suspicious of the leader. One night I found myself awake in a bodiless dimension (6D or higher) and visiting that leader. He was OB, discussing strategy with someone I at the time identified as his off-sider. The latter didn’t realise who I was, and took me for a being who didn’t need any 3D body – which I guess was true. She (or that OB being) was very interested in recruiting me to join some other such beings with whom she claimed the two of them were working. I kept expressing strong moral objections at how I understood she and the leader were telling me they regarded and treated the cult members. She (that OB being) kept saying: “They’re only cattle. They don’t have any rights. We can do what we like with them, it doesn’t matter.” She (or that being) kept saying that over and over to me. And also kept saying that what they were doing was experiments, using the cult members as guinea pigs. The purpose of the experiments was to find discoveries that could be useful to certain higher level beings, and not the humans. If some of their experiments worked, then lucky humans. If not, then the humans would maybe have been ripped off by their promises and of all the money they had paid. But cattle have no rights. Eventually, the leader managed to identify who I was. He then tried to use the most crude, old-fashioned hypnosis method to try to get me to forget all about this. “You are getting sleepy now. You will go to sleep and when you wake up, you will not remember anything about this.” Like hell I wouldn’t.

Not long after that I was booted out of the cult on the grounds that I supposedly wasn’t changing and developing as quickly as any of the other members.

Is it possible to go beyond the entire physical multiverse in OB travel? You bet it is.

I find it intriguing that the only ET races that ever seem to get discussed are all races from 3D. What about all the other races from 6D and beyond, that don't have any physical location anywhere, except when they choose to? (I guess the guardian angels are one of many such groups. I did talk about the guardian angels at http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?38661

Does that answer all of those questions enough, AwakeInADream?

TraineeHuman

5th January 2013, 11:08

Could critical analysis possibly improve one’s ability to access OB experiences? How can I suggest that, especially in the light of my remarks in post #177?

Well, let me try to explain why critical analysis can often help raise your general level of awareness. Admittedly, that will not specifically help you to learn to experience OB realities more quickly. But it will help whatever techniques or exercises you practice, to get you OB traveling sooner and better.

Of course, we use critical thinking/analysis in pretty much all our posts on the Forum. But I’d like to point out that historically speaking, having the freedom and the know-how to apply critical thinking has been rare for thousands of years at least. It’s quite recent. Your great grandparents probably didn’t know how to use it, unless they were “extremely well” educated.

If you care to examine the world around you critically, you’re automatically also taking a critical look at parts of yourself. Usually you won’t realise you’re doing it. That’s because your self is the lens through which you view everything else.

Heightened awareness – such as of you as The Watcher or the OB you —centrally involves looking in two directions. One direction of looking is out – at the world. The other direction is in, at yourself. The trick is being able to do them both at the same time.

Notice how in many of Chester’s posts you can actually see it happening. He’s looking in both directions at the same time, and the looking in keeps opening new insights in the world out there, and vice versa.

OOO

5th January 2013, 15:16

Thank you TH! Your experiences and knowledge are very inspiring. I have spoken to some "healers" on the subject of OBEs and "they" have always steared me away from that by claiming that you have to have 'special gifts' to do it. So imagine my surprise when you so humbly explained the nature and motions of OBEs that I realized I am actually experiencing OBE!

The HS grounding exercise is absolutely wonderful and works like a charm!
I have directed ppl to this thread because its full of information. Thank you.

I have a question. Is "life between lives" regression a form of OBE?

Thank you,
Aleksandra

AwakeInADream

5th January 2013, 16:37

Does that answer all of those questions enough, AwakeInADream?

Yes! Thank's TH!:)
That more than satisfies my curiosity! Fascinating stuff!

I'm still wondering about the Moon though, since Jake said he couldn't get there as a voice warned him off.
Have you noticed anything unusual about the Moon?
Like, are there psychically protected human/ET bases there?
Also, is it possible that by raising your vibrations high enough up through the D's that that you could bypass the psychic barriers put up by lower entities?

I mean, it wouldn't be snooping if it were in the interest of humanity at large, to reveal if something untoward were going on up there, would it?
(or on Earth for that matter)

TraineeHuman

5th January 2013, 22:57

... I'm still wondering about the Moon though, since Jake said he couldn't get there as a voice warned him off.
Have you noticed anything unusual about the Moon?
Like, are there psychically protected human/ET bases there?
Also, is it possible that by raising your vibrations high enough up through the D's that that you could bypass the psychic barriers put up by lower entities?

I mean, it wouldn't be snooping if it were in the interest of humanity at large, to reveal if something untoward were going on up there, would it?
(or on Earth for that matter)

I've been to the moon but the only thing I noticed was that there was something like slavery there, but the slaves weren't human, but some other apparently intelligent species. The slave-masters weren't human either. There seemed to be a mixture of types of beings there, and the rest -- apart from the slave-masters -- seemed benevolent or OK actually. I don't know whether there are any human bases there at present, though there have been not long ago. But I am aware that quite a lot of ET "interference" is actually ET races ensuring that there won't be a major nuclear war or other such things that would kill off most or all of the population. That includes protecting the planet from solar flares, asteroids etc if such would be sufficiently harmful. But I don't think Kettler's claims are true either.

Of course it's possible to bypass psychic barriers by going to higher Ds. By the time you get to 6D there are no barriers as we think of them. However, being able from such a vantagepoint to view what's in 3D is a skill that I haven't developed. This question reminds me of how some people go to clairvoyants for a reading and they start by demanding that the clairvoyant tell them what all their questions are in advance. They don't realise that with the amount of effort it would take the clairvoyant to do that accurately, the clairvoyant may be too drained to be able to get accurate answers. (Not that I'd deny that close to 90% of so-called professional clairvoyants are frauds in the sense that they haven't developed their skills to be accurate most of the time.)

Just because somebody develops some psychic skill in some way, that doesn't mean they've developed all their skills in all ways. I guess partly there's some transferability, rather like if you become fluent at playing one musical instrument it will take you much less time to become fluent at playing another. But there are so many different psychic skills, and they all take hard work to hone, and practice to keep them sharpened.

I don't have the accuracy to say for sure if something very untoward is happening on the moon that affects our planet. I guess I'm just not strongly motivated to do the very hard work to sharpen my skills in that area, and I may not have the natural talent for that particular skill anyway.

TraineeHuman

6th January 2013, 01:36

... I have spoken to some "healers" on the subject of OBEs and "they" have always steared me away from that by claiming that you have to have 'special gifts' to do it. So imagine my surprise when you so humbly explained the nature and motions of OBEs that I realized I am actually experiencing OBE!

I have a question. Is "life between lives" regression a form of OBE?

Thank you,
Aleksandra

To respond to this question, let’s do a little unpacking of the general concept of “OB experience”.

Firstly, the term “OB” (along with similar terms) is used to refer to higher-dimensional experience where the individual is in some sense directly aware of having the experience.

On the other hand, traditional astral travel involves, at least initially, merging with that clattering, buzzy, shaky energy field that is your astral 4D body. But what is the latter, exactly? Well, it’s what I call the personality, or the ego, or maybe the psyche. I use those terms pretty much interchangeability. It’s made out of accumulated electricity (the 3D/4D “body” of all thoughts) and accumulated magnetism (the 3D/4D “body” of emotions). And that’s all it’s made of. When you die, it disconnects from you, much like your physical body does. Personally, if I can avoid it I prefer to wait for the express train rather than jumping into that old clattering, twisted, rattling energy field. In fact, as I say, I prefer to experience phenomena in higher Ds where no vehicle is required.

So, Aleksandra, if you or I are carrying out psychic healing on somebody across the world or across the street, if we see or feel images or whatever in our minds, and it turns out those images are accurate and do apply to whoever we’re healing, then yes, we’re consciously experiencing some OB scenery. At the same time we’ll probably be experiencing some sensations or whatever in our physical body. But what I believe the shaky-body travelers don’t seem to appreciate unless they’re very experienced is, while they’re traveling they’re also experiencing sensations from their physical body.

Turning now to life-between-life regression experiences, I guess these are experiences of certain memories. Those memories are of times when the individual was in effect in the same space as some level of OB because they didn't have a physical body at such a time. The interesting question is, can we recover such memories now without ourselves going OB now? As far as my experience goes, the answer to that is no. But maybe we could do it without realising we were OB at the time. I've directly observed people do that.

The trouble is, when people use the term "OB" they normally mean "consciously OB". Everybody goes almost to 6D every night while they are dreaming and in REM sleep, and to a higher D than that when they are in delta sleep every night. But they don't seem to be conscious of it at the time. Or are they? Do they just forget? These are questions I'm still pondering, at the moment.

TraineeHuman

6th January 2013, 02:48

I did the Christos Experiment (post#10) over and over last night (for over an hour) and whilst I didn't 'see' anything,
I did get the sense of what it felt like to inhabit all sorts of different bodies which was a great experience.
(In one of these bodies I could feel the shape of my head was very different from the one I have now
and I didn't seem to have much of a neck)
...

AIAD, I suspect you would probably get further if you started by taking your time and getting really, really grounded, then fully relaxed. At night may not be the best time to do this exercise either, because your ego may exploit your body's tiredness to compromise how strongly you can concentrate. It would also be good if you can do the exercise without expectations, so that every time it would be fresh. You might need to vary some parts to make this happen. E.g., imagine standing outside your next door neighbour's door rather than your own, and so on.

ghostrider

6th January 2013, 04:24

every had your eyes closed but still you can see all around your bedroom at night ??

lookbeyond

6th January 2013, 04:46

every had your eyes closed but still you can see all around your bedroom at night ??

Hi Ghostrider, no, but often times i see a couple of very small black points which may or not go away

lb

Eram

6th January 2013, 16:21

I'm hopelessly behind in this thread.
Trying to catch up...

I tried to learn going astral from about June till half October and then stopped with a sort of astral burn out.
I tried too hard and found out that I lost the will to do it in the process.

Now I am slowly building up again.
Trying whenever I feel like it, which is not often at the moment, also due to a busy daily life.

I have had some minor successes in those months of 'trying' in the summer though.
One of the first days that I tried, in June.... I kept on repeating to myself... 'I am now out of body'.
I fell asleep though, but I woke up immediately and found myself sitting up straight in my bed. It was too dark to see and I realised that I was out of my body with my upper part of the body. Then I swoopt back into my 3d body and woke up.
Promising start eh?
Well... after that, the blood sweat and tears came into the game and it brought me one new experience in September or close to that.

Then it was at daytime on my sofa.

I again, fell asleep (there is no sleeping pill like trying to go OB for me) and began dreaming of swimming in the ocean.
I realised that I could not see the shore and I panicked a little bit.
Immediately... an air mattress appeared in front of me and it felt to me that someone with great love for me put it there (I really sensed a loving entitiy that I could not see, but was there nonetheless). I began to wake up in the dream and remembered that I was trying to go astral. I immediately shouted that I was going to my higher self... felt a pull in the solar plexus or near there and started to spin into a tunnel of some sort.
This sensation was too much for me and I woke up in 3D.
Afterwards I believe that it was already my higher self that put the air mattress there and I didn't need to go anywhere. Ahh well... there will be a next time :)

Lately I am clearing my body of all sorts of toxins. Liver flushes, removal of amalgam fillings together with an homeopathic therapy to break the spirit of amalgam in me, chi machine etc. Also your generous visit in the astral world might have removed some blockage.
When I do meditation or an attempt to go astral now, everything feels different.
It feels like everything is easier now, but I have to get used to the new settings a bit.

The other night I tried to go astral and I felt like some people explain when on LSD (I never tried). There was a great sense of speed and there where lots of colours, shapes and forms. I was aware of the 3D body, so I don't kow how to interpret this exactly. It felt nice though.

The following comments of mine would be part of how I would suggest this dream can be interpreted.

I found myself in a home. The home had several rooms. I was in the home because I was welcomed there. It was a large home that appeared to have only one floor.

According to me, there are only a few dream symbols that have universal meanings. Home is one of them. A home = your mind.

Strangely the next thing I knew I was driving an old, blue station wagon. I knew the car was given to me by this team.

You’re making this dream easy to interpret. One of the very few other universal dream symbols I recognize is that of a vehicle. A vehicle always stands for the course of your life.

about dreams and interpreting them.
Maybe you (TH) know what these might mean:

For as long as 20 years minimum, I dream a good percentage of my dreams being in a house. Mostly my house, or my grandparents. But it is always a house that feels like I am staying there, not as a guest, but as a resident.
There are 2 things that are always present in those dreams.
1) In the course of the dream, I discover new rooms that I wasn't aware of. This always feels kind of exciting and in the dream I start planning how to make use of the extra space.
2) There are always people intruding in my private space in those dreams.
-rooms that suddenly connect to rooms of neighbours that walk in freely
-people that just barge in my house with an attitude that they have every right to do so, leaving me unsure what my rights are.
-rooms that where mine before in the dream, now suddenly belong to someone else, who made claim with furniture etc. of his.

Strangely the next thing I knew I was driving an old, blue station wagon. I knew the car was given to me by this team.

You’re making this dream easy to interpret. One of the very few other universal dream symbols I recognize is that of a vehicle. A vehicle always stands for the course of your life.

For as long as 20 yeas also, I have dreams about flying in air planes which are about to crash down, or I dream about being in a neighbourhood where planes start crashing down.
I had lots and lots of those dreams when I started to learn to go astral.
After such a dream, I wake up, feeling very connected with my emotions, feelings and loved ones.
It seems that these dreams are about grounding wouldn't you say? :P And that my attempts to go astral are leading my to more of these dreams, because I need to get more grounded in order to master this astral thing.

TraineeHuman

7th January 2013, 01:09

..
I tried to learn going astral from about June till half October and then stopped with a sort of astral burn out.
I tried too hard and found out that I lost the will to do it in the process.

Now I am slowly building up again...

I began dreaming of swimming in the ocean. I realised that I could not see the shore and I panicked a little bit.
...
For as long as 20 yeas also, I have dreams about flying in air planes which are about to crash down, or I dream about being in a neighbourhood where planes start crashing down.
I had lots and lots of those dreams when I started to learn to go astral.
After such a dream, I wake up, feeling very connected with my emotions, feelings and loved ones.
It seems that these dreams are about grounding wouldn't you say?
And that my attempts to go astral are leading my to more of these dreams, because I need to get more grounded in order to master this astral thing.

Hi again, Wakytweaky. As far as I understand, dreaming of a plane that you are in, or that is yours, crashing means making a plane wreck of your life. Fortunately, your dreams have been about planes which are about to crash down but actually never do. That suggests to me that for 20 years you've had fears that you might be making a plane crash of your life, but it seems this has never happened, so far. Well, apart from when you had the dream that you swam so far out you nearly drowned.

What I also get is that recently, after 20 years, you're overcoming your fear of making a disaster of your life. I take it you had at least one parent who had very high standards and expected -- or should I say almost kind of demanded? -- that you meet those standards of success and achievement. Anyway, your dreams suggest you've been making a major breakthrough on overcoming fear in general. That's impressive, and congratulations. I don't know if grounding yourself necessarily had so much to do with it, or not on its own.

trenairio

7th January 2013, 01:19

[edit][edit][edit]

TraineeHuman

7th January 2013, 01:44

One member has recently told me they and their family members have been experiencing what I would call mild psychic attack at nights. Psychic attack can happen sometimes. Proper protection and grounding should normally be enough to stop it. I’m still investigating this. But in the meanwhile, I would recommend saying something like the following at night before going to sleep. (This is framed in terms of “God”, but some – including probably myself – might prefer other terms.)

PROTECTION

I call on God and the light of God and the power of God to protect me and all the cells of my body in every way.

(Picture in your mind and heart that you, and the room you are in, are being put under protection now.)

HEALING

AFFIRMATION
I stand in my own power and in the power of God. I claim full control of this body and this life, and I say to you, _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _, now that I know I have the full rights to this life and this body, and to enjoy and use my free will as I see fit. I do not agree to allow you to control or manipulate me or my body in any way, now or at any time. I do not permit you to interfere with this life or this body in any way, at any time.

I call on God and the light of God and the power of God to heal me and all the cells of my body against any curse or spell or voodoo that anyone or any being or entity may have placed on me, or tried to place on me, including _ _ _ _ _ _ _ by any of his names.

(Picture in your mind and heart that you are being healed of anything evil, and that it is losing its ability to have any effect on you.)

PROTECTION

I call on God and the light of God and the power of God, and on my guardian angels, to protect me and all the cells of my body in every way, now and all the time, and especially with regard to _ _ _ _ _ _ _

It’s also useful to sit down every day for a week, ground oneself, and deliberately say the paragraph headed AFFIRMATION.

TraineeHuman

7th January 2013, 01:53

...
The other night I tried to go astral and I felt like some people explain when on LSD (I never tried). There was a great sense of speed and there where lots of colours, shapes and forms. I was aware of the 3D body, so I don't know how to interpret this exactly. It felt nice though.
At the very least you were travelling fast and with confidence, and in a higher D than the fourth.

For as long as 20 years minimum, I dream a good percentage of my dreams being in a house. Mostly my house, or my grandparents. But it is always a house that feels like I am staying there, not as a guest, but as a resident.
There are 2 things that are always present in those dreams.
1) In the course of the dream, I discover new rooms that I wasn't aware of. This always feels kind of exciting and in the dream I start planning how to make use of the extra space.
2) There are always people intruding in my private space in those dreams.
-rooms that suddenly connect to rooms of neighbours that walk in freely
-people that just barge in my house with an attitude that they have every right to do so, leaving me unsure what my rights are.
-rooms that where mine before in the dream, now suddenly belong to someone else, who made claim with furniture etc. of his.

You keep discovering new "rooms" in your mind. Great. You keep expanding your horizons, and you never lose your curiosity.
People just barge into your house, without respecting you. I think your dreams are saying you're too nice or polite a person. Sometimes you should probably be more willing to be tough. But they've been saying that for 20 years, and still you've evidently stayed too nice at times.

AwakeInADream

7th January 2013, 03:05

Eram

7th January 2013, 08:29

Thank's for the above advice TraineeHuman!:)

Your right! I need to mix it up a little and I probably don't ground myself enough.

Can you give me a little more advice on grounding more fully, aside from the thumb on the belly button thing?

Like should I do the linking of the base Chakra to the centre of the Earth by a chord?

Are there any other grounding methods that I might not know about?

Hi AIAD,

If I may...

I must admit that I am a bit confused about what grounding precisely means in some situations, but stumbling and trying, through the years, I have found some exercises that bring me more in the 'here and now' and in connection with this reality.

One is to bring your attention to your hands and feet (hands works best for me). This enables you to come in direct contact with whatever you feel at that moment and pulls you in the here and now quite dramatically.
It does wonders when you are talking with a person and you feel that you have difficulty to be there fully.
You become aware of all that goes on.
(This is an exercise that <8>, a member here on Avalon suggested to me)

Another one is to use your feelings and emotions as an entrance to be more grounded.
I scan myself for the more gnawing and not so nice feelings and emotions that often dwell in the twilight of our consciousness and I make a choice to allow these emotions and feelings to be there. I don't have to do anything with them, just allow them to exist. I found out that trying not to feel these (like so many people do imo) and suppress them, makes me more un-grounded.
Sometimes it helps me even to picture my family members and that I need to be here for them to accept these emotions and feelings.
I don't know if I explained this right. Let me know if I am making sense ok?
It is about making a choice to be here fully and accepts all that it brings with it.... this works grounding (for me anyway).

Like should I do the linking of the base Chakra to the centre of the Earth by a chord?

I don't know why, but stuff like this never seems to do the trick for me.

TraineeHuman

7th January 2013, 09:10

I believe a number of the grounding methods I’ve mentioned so far in this thread would be similar to what Wakytweaky has described. Here are a few more, although Wakytweaky’s are all particularly good, in my opinion.

Most types of physical exercise will ground a person quite strongly – certainly such things as walking, running, cycling, swimming, team sports, aerobics, weight training, and so on.

Earthing of any kind certainly increases one’s degree of grounding. However, I understand that some people with certain types of heart conditions or heart irregularities may be adversely affected, but for the great majority of people it seems to be perfectly OK healthwise. Dawn discusses it in her “Breatharianism …” thread I think around posts #150 to #160 and maybe a little earlier than that too.

Almost anything that people call “centering” will at least decrease your ungroundedness, if you are ungrounded. DeDukshyn’s description in the second and third paragraphs of post #123, of how he got back into his body, is also a grounding technique. What I mean is, doingthings such as: in your mind/spirit “feel” the solidity of the walls and the floor around you, and focus on exactly where your body is located in physical space and on “entering” fully into it and taking full control of it.

Eating meat will ground you, though at least a dozen different experts have told me it grounds one in the wrong way. Certainly, on any occasion when I eat meat I feel some heavier energies. But lately I consider that’s OK and useful (not that I eat meat very often) if I’m engaging in mundane types of work, or activities like cleaning, shopping for basics, or washing or ironing clothes. Such activities themselves will also ground you at least somewhat.

Nature will ground you, though paradoxically it will also help put you in touch with the stillness which is the gateway to all higher dimensions.

I’m sure there’s plenty more. Let’s make it clear that reading, discussing, watching movies or videos or TV, and using the computer all unambiguously unground you.

nf857

7th January 2013, 22:41

Im so pleased i found this post, im sorry i dont have the health to actually read through all the posts as i would love to read everybody's viewpoint, however id just like to let people know my experiences of OBE'S.

Was a few years ago now, i started having sleep paralysis that used to scare me to death, as i didn't know what was happening to me, i decided to start looking into and researching it, but this was years later, i was quite traumatized of what kept happening to me at the time, i also experienced alien abduction experiences & exploding brain syndrome, however im still none the wiser as why i keep having these experiences.

I was an outcast in school for being psychic, i kept telling people what things were going to happen to them, & would predict crazy things about to happen, i never wanted 'The Gift' so eventually over the years and age, ive managed to un-learn it somewhat, however i still have a crazy intuition, & get a feeling about somebody whenever i meet them, i beleive they call this now a 'sensitive' well im definitly a very sensitive person.

The sleep paralysis ive manged to overcome somewhat & dont tend to get that anymore, but it was always felt like somebody was in the room with me, i would be ice cold, & could feel how ice cold my breathing was, & i really felt like something was trying to interfer with me, at one point i remember waking up, & i was literally being raped by an un-seen force, i was pinned to the bed, but i remember i could move my head a bit, and my legs somewhat, i can remember just kicking and kicking like crazy, trying to get this force away from me, i have considered hypnosis to try and re-call the whole events, as this kept having over a period of a bout a year. Im still traumatized by it, & dont really know whats happened to me, i feel like so much has happened to me, ill have strange re-call of things, especially in dreams, but ill wake up not knowing whether its actually happened to me or not, even though whilst im in the dream, i know it definitly has, it sort of soothes my soul to know all these things have happened to me, but the re-call on waking goes away so quickly, and again im left with just sketchyness- its awful- any tips would be most helpful.

I think im put off by hypnotisim as its expensive, you need to find somebody who knows what they are doing, & also im not sure i would be easily hypnotised, although i find meditation at home quite nice and peaceful, im not very relaxed with others, especially in a one-to-one setting, i get very nervous so im not sure this approach would work for me xxx

lookbeyond

7th January 2013, 22:57

Hello nf857, welcome, it sounds like youve had a tough time. Have a read around Avalon, there are people here who have had all sorts of experiences, i find we all learn from sharing and there is support in knowing you are not alone,

Kind Reguards lookbeyond

TraineeHuman

8th January 2013, 01:11

I’d like to discuss some of the differences between the 3D world and the 4D world. Hopefully this will more fully answer Deneon’s question regarding whether ones sees the 3D world when astral traveling. It should also help clarify any confusion that may have arisen from the latest Veritas Radio show.

The 4D world, as I use the word “dimension”, is not a physical world. It’s not just that it’s a world where there is no such thing as gravity at all, or that one instantaneously travels to anything or anyone anywhere that one focuses on strongly. It’s just not a physical world, even though our minds will try to view it, initially, as if it were one.

It’s also the case that probably the most basic core unit in undergraduate physics courses – the unit that teaches “dynamics” -- teaches that, and how, the physical universe/multiverse – which I call “the 3D world” – has at least ten dimensions. “Dynamics” is also an indispensable unit of any undergraduate major in applied mathematics. Sometimes it is known as “three-dimensional dynamics”, or “three-dimensional mechanics”. But it involves using ten-dimensional vectors or matrices. The label “three-dimensional” is only there for the purpose of making it clear that the subject matter goes beyond Newton’s (or “classical”) “two-dimensional” mechanics or dynamics.

At a more advanced level an eleventh physical dimension is added. This is made necessary ultimately because of “paradoxes”. Of course, a “paradox” is what you get whenever your theory is too limited to cope with some aspect of reality at all. As I would describe it the eleventh physical dimension is there to “explain”(even though it doesn’t at all, really) various physical effects caused by phenomena (or beings) which are in what I call a higher D. (It has nothing to do with what I call 11D. It is part of what I call 3D.)

If anybody is wondering what the ten physical dimensions for undergraduates are, they are as follows.
The physical world as we know it has three dimensions of extension (height, width, and breadth), plus three further dimensions of movement (one corresponding to each of the previous dimensions), plus three further dimensions of acceleration or of angular momentum (again, each of them corresponding to each dimension of extension). Added to that we have the physical dimension of what physicists call “time” (which is totally measurable, and hence has marginal similarity to real time, which is largely unmeasurable, and which does not “flow” because it is the eternal Now). That takes us to ten dimensions.

The theory of how all that works was developed mostly by the mathematicians/astronomers Lagrange and Laplace (in the eighteenth or nineteenth century), building on Newton’s mechanics.

I’ve seen several senior professors of cosmology or physics proclaim that they’ve discovered that string theory needs at least ten, and preferably eleven, physical dimensions to explain the physical world. They’re forgetting that their whole presupposition about what “the physical world” is is based on the course on the above topic which they did as undergraduates. I suggest they need to be some extremely large dunces’ hats.

(Please see also post #55.)

In my next post on this I’ll move on to discussing what’s going on when an astral traveler experiences what looks like a 3D landscape.

TraineeHuman

8th January 2013, 01:42

nf857, I’m very sad indeed to hear of your experiences.

It’s quite true that some men who develop astral travel/projection abilities do rape women’s astral bodies. Such men are totally lacking in decency and in the kind of ethical commitment that it’s assumed every member of this Forum promises to live by and totally uphold.

Often they have been influenced or misled by some type of black magic, or the “teachings” of individuals like Aleister Crowley and everyone such individuals influenced. They are probably also victims of the social conditioning that every adolescent lad is bombarded with in our society. That conditioning goes on for a number of years at an impressionable age. It assures him that his manhood, if not his real worth as an individual, is measured by his ability to have sexual conquests, and even many of them.

A big problem in your case, most unfortunately, is that you have been taking medication which obviously affects your consciousness and makes you sleepy and groggy sometimes. My experience in psychic healing is that I often can do little to help someone whose consciousness is being chemically half put to sleep. I try to link to their consciousness and I just get groggy and sleepy myself, making it pretty hard to concentrate and to elevate my level of awareness.

I’d like to suggest saying something like what’s in post #191 before you go to sleep, combined with conscious drawing on the psychic healing energy I’m sure you can draw on for yourself. Also, at the same time consciously calling on your guardian angels for protection and help, even if you can’t see or feel them at all. They are still there. And it makes quite a difference if you ask them to help.

Maybe you could tell us if that helps, when/if you have the energy to tell us.

TraineeHuman

9th January 2013, 02:23

More often than not, the first time someone finds themselves astral travelling they don’t at first realise they’re not in the physical world. Consider how gdelisle has described trying to rest his head on his pillow and falling right through the bed, for instance.

In the 4D world, and absolutely anywhere OB, whatever you expect or focus on is what you’ll get. Because of this, nearly everyone’s initial astral travel experiences, or part-experiences, involve seeing a fairly accurate copy of the physical world (maybe with some different colors), maybe with a little fantasy tinkering thrown in.

Even in that space – one that’s as close as you can make it to the physical world we know --, it’s impossible to deny you can float or fly anywhere, for instance. That’s because there is no such thing as gravity there. Though your mind may try to forget or ignore this part of the time, particularly when you recall the experience later. I happen to know that this complete absence of gravity is the major difference most people take notice of -- and joyfully celebrate by "joyriding" everywhere -- in the first day after they die.

Another of the most noticeable differences is the faster than light-speed travel to any target of your imagination that you care to focus on. It may not be clear to the traveler that this is what is happening, though. Quite often a person’s first proper experience of astral traveling well beyond their ceiling involves thinking “Up!” and instantly then finding themselves – as their mind sees it – miles above the earth’s surface. At that point they’ll think “Earth!” and go plummeting at incredible speed towards a “crash” into the earth’s surface. They don’t realise they have been the ones willing this rapid travel all along, so they then find themselves crashing through the earth’s surface and seeing its interior. Then they realise they haven’t died, because there was no “crash” at all when they broke the earth’s surface. Hopefully, in this way or through something similar, the astral traveler will come to realise that in all their astral traveling experiences they are completely in control of choosing their destination at every point.

There are many other ways even the 4D world – let alone anywhere higher – differs from the physical world we know. But the mind will try to fill in the blanks with details that come from the physical world, when that isn’t what you actually experienced while travelling.

What makes each dimension higher than the one before is that there are fewer natural laws. For example, in going from 3D to 4D you lose not only gravity but a whole lot of other things I haven’t even mentioned so far. And that’s only going from 3D to 4D. Can you imagine?

Although I haven’t taken LSD, I take it the five minutes or so of very dynamic optical illusions and many colors near the end of the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey is typical of an LSD experience. That’s not unlike some types of OB travel I experience. It also sounds something like a dream that Wakytweaky recently described briefly. But can you imagine how much fun it is flying at incredible "speed" through the very essence of time itself, in the sense of "time" that physicists and our clocks use?

In my experience, OB travel in higher dimensions eventually doesn’t involve visuals if you go high enough. It does involve feelings, or sensations of a non-physical kind.

Also, the higher you go, the less there is such a thing as the specific, at all. I don’t know if it’s too hard to imagine a level of reality where everything that exists is universal.

And how about a (high) level of reality where it’s obvious that everything is in a kind of craziness – and that craziness filters down into absolutely all lower levels of reality?

Deneon

9th January 2013, 23:02

TraineeHuman,

I just want to let you know that I am still reading and thinking about your posts on a daily basis, even if I haven’t posted in a while. I sincerely thank you for your comments on my posts. The same goes for everybody else’s posts. I really enjoy reading about the experience of others. One member asked me to give an update, so here it is:

Nothing much has changed for me. I’ve been reading books, articles and forums to read about what is happening. I still feel the sensations in my feet and lower legs. They seem to be less intense, but as soon as I focus on them they grow stronger. I have tried to get in the state where my whole body has these energy waves through them a couple more times, but it seems more difficult. I feel the energy in my very fast, I feel the flutter in my heart area, but I have trouble moving the sensations through my whole body. Back when it first started it felt like a switch I could turn on and off. I have willingly not worked on meditation or OBE techniques for a while, because I had trouble sleeping every time that I did do them. But now I kind of wish I had kept at it because I feel like it is harder for me to get to that state. I’m confident I will get there with practice though. One thing I have noticed though, my dream recall has increased so so much. I haven’t even begun writing them down but I remember so many more dreams than before. Jake advised me to lie still when I first wake up and think about the dream. That trick really works! :) (Before all this I had almost no recall at all.)

The posts about grounding yourself really helped me. I feel like the exercises mentioned by WakyTweaky and TraineeHuman are really helping me. It might be just my imagination, but I don’t feel ’too full’ of energy flows after I do them. I have read about Kundalini awakening, but from the various descriptions I have read, I am pretty sure that’s not what happened to me. I was just in a trance state for the first time in my life, with energy flowing through me. The only thing that I find weird is that I keep feeling them, 24/7.

I’m sorry if I talk too much about energy. My goal is still to go out-of-body, so I think it’s still ok to post here. Please let me know if I should post this somewhere else. TraineeHuman, I believe it was you who posted somewhere on this thread (paraphrasing): Yu can think about it all you want, you can read about it, you can conceptualize it, but ultimately, you just have to do it. That’s what I intend to do. I will try every day and you will be the first to know when I have succeeded. (I say ’when’, not ’if’ ;))

AwakeInADream

9th January 2013, 23:31

I think most of you have seen this post of RMorgan's fascinating recent spontanius OBE experience, but I think it's worth linking to here for anyone that hasn't:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54108-The-most-fantastic-OBE-I-ve-ever-had&p=612666&viewfull=1#post612666

It brings a question to my mind.

As well as travelling through space during an OBE, can you also travel in time?

I mean, can you go back in time without it necessarily being a past life memory?
(or forward?)

TraineeHuman

10th January 2013, 01:29

OB reality looks very different from the physical world – except for the “earthbound” level of 4D where the experiencer consciously or unconsciously has their blinkers on against seeing, if not feeling, anything that doesn’t look “normal”, for which read “physical”. It seems to be the experience of all beginners and many post-beginners that their mind continually overlays pictures from the physical world, which it tries to cling to in spite of the reality being experienced.

I consider it’s totally important to strive to see more. There are a number of practical reasons for this (quite apart from reasons such as that truth is in itself very important and very valuable).

Several are to do with being able to handle our physical death the way we were meant to. If we can tune in even partly to what the dying process truly is in its essence, I happen to know for a fact we will have the most joyful and transcendent experience of our entire life, so to speak. There are two big downers that this wonderful experience was meant to overcome.

One is that of all the suffering we experience over the first day or two (or maybe three) after death, as a result of the life review. That review involves our experiencing all the suffering we knowingly or unknowingly caused anyone else at any point.

The second downer occurs if the individual has any negative beliefs regarding the afterlife. Although my mother was extremely psychic, she believed there was no survival after death, in apparent strong contradiction to some phenomena she had vividly and clearly experienced. As a result she had a very uncomfortable time for over two weeks after her death. Some individuals will subconsciously believe in an eternal hell, or a purgatory, and that they deserve to go there. So, they will create that out of thin air, or co-create it with like-minded others, and spend a period in pure masochism, until they wake up to it.

Another practical reason is the benefit that comes if we manage to even glimpse what a wonderful, joyous thing OB reality is like even at the level (right at the middle level of 4D) where everybody initially goes at death. Firstly, this should be more than enough to get rid of any fear or depression regarding death, or its imminent approach. Secondly, it will make the OB world not something totally strange or hard to understand. As the Tibetans say, try to learn to meditate or OB travel. Even if you’re very bad at learning and you don’t get past the beginner stage, you’ll still have a very easy death compared to others.

I’ll continue in my next post. I’ll also comment on some recent posts in the next few days.

TraineeHuman

10th January 2013, 04:24

Another point regarding easy death. Until we die, a great deal of our mind and energy is devoted just to keeping the body alive and healthy – keeping the lungs breathing, the heart beating, the digestive system going through its processes, and so on. All this takes up much of our mind-energy and our subconscious attention. At death, that mind-energy and attention are freed. That’s why many – most -- individuals see many things in the OB worlds quite clearly after death. It’s also one major reason why we struggle so much to see those things while we still possess a physical body.

Another reason why I consider it’s very advantageous for us all to get even glimpses of real OB reality is in answer to a certain question. That question is, what do we gain out of going to the lengths of incarnating in a body – given that after death we just reflect on it all OB anyway? I’m sure the answer has something to do with getting greater understanding when we can see and internalize the contrast between the physical world and the OB world more clearly. The answer also has something to do with moving ourselves closer to reintegration of the unconscious/conscious split. If we can see our experiences in this world from the point of view of that world as well as of this one, well… it makes things easier for many of whatever the reasons are that we choose to incarnate in this world in the first place.

In post #200 I mentioned that some of my OB experiences have had some resemblance to a sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey that some claimed resembled some peoples’ LSD experiences. But I don’t advocate drugs of any kind because that would be interfering in an unnatural way. For example, I understand that the suicide rate for LSD users even today is over 2% within some months of having taken LSD. Presumably, life in this vale of tears is too depressing for such people, having seen some kind of glimpse of an alternative, higher-level world.

I suspect that the reason why astral travel is so hard to learn and often takes a long time to grasp is kind of similar. What I mean is, people need to make themselves ready in an integrated way to handle the broadened experience of reality that OB experiences can bring. Namely, it means one has substantially deepened and broadened one’s awareness to reach the level required. Equally, though, I believe that’s one reason why learning to OB travel reliably can be such a valuable thing

TraineeHuman

10th January 2013, 11:32

... I have tried to get in the state where my whole body has these energy waves through them a couple more times, but it seems more difficult. I feel the energy in my very fast, I feel the flutter in my heart area, but I have trouble moving the sensations through my whole body. Back when it first started it felt like a switch I could turn on and off.

As any individual becomes accustomed to having a certain ability or skill, they either no longer notice they are using it, or else they no longer feel so different when they use it, like they did initially. This is because the ability or skill is no longer new, and has become to some degree second nature.

I have willingly not worked on meditation or OBE techniques for a while, because I had trouble sleeping every time that I did do them. But now I kind of wish I had kept at it because I feel like it is harder for me to get to that state.

Ditto.

... I’m confident I will get there with practice though. One thing I have noticed though, my dream recall has increased so so much. I haven’t even begun writing them down but I remember so many more dreams than before. Jake advised me to lie still when I first wake up and think about the dream. That trick really works! :) (Before all this I had almost no recall at all.)

Still sounding like you're a natural to me.
Admittedly, for me a remembered dream wasn't necessarily an OBE at all unless most of the scenery in it was different from normal physical world scenery. Everybody has dreams. Everybody can remember at least some details of their last dream at the time they wake up. Still, the more details even of just the last dream that a person can remember, the more control and understanding they're starting to gain of something related to the OB worlds. So, it's all good. And your ability to remember without even needing to write anything down is unusual, in a very good way.

... I have read about Kundalini awakening, but from the various descriptions I have read, I am pretty sure that’s not what happened to me.

Unfortunately, the whole topic of kundalini has been enormously mythologised, and its importance has been considerably exaggerated. (Think of certain phenomena in Christianity, and you'll probably get the idea. In Hinduism, kundalini is made into the holiest of holies.) In the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries in India, if a person experienced a kundalini awakening even once, they would immediately be revered as a guru for the rest of their lives. For this reason, in India anybody who ever had a kundalini awakening would make a huge deal of it, and would exaggerate what they experienced. That's not to deny that it's always a life-changing psychological breakthrough.

Actually, the less emotional/psychological baggage an individual is carrying, the more quiet and subtle a kundalini awakening experience will be. Also, it makes a huge difference if the individual is properly grounded at the beginning. In that case the energy begins from half a meter or so below the person's feet, and it lingers there for at least minutes or longer. While it does, it gets greatly purified and made more subtle by the crystalline Earth energies. I know, because, I have to confess, I can sometimes induce such an experience in some people who are ready and who have already done lots of work on their spiritual growth. I watch the energy as it moves up their body, and I work to help it get unstuck when it stops at certain points, until it has moved to the oversoul chakra above the head. I watch the energy all the way.

I happen to speak Lithuanian, which is an older language than Sanskrit, and closely similar to it. In Lithuanian, "kun" is the root of the word for "body", while "dalin" is the root of the word for "allocate". So, from my knowledge of Lithuanian (and also because every other time I've translated a spiritual phrase from Sanskrit to Lithuanian the meaning in the two languages has been precisely identical), kundalini energy is simply the energy allocated to the body. In other words, it's the energy that the body was meant to have activated and working within it. So, I believe the root meaning of the word is that the kundalini energy is the (liberated) life-energy. That also ties in with my own experience. It's really all just life-energy, but flowing fully.

I was just in a trance state for the first time in my life, with energy flowing through me. The only thing that I find weird is that I keep feeling them, 24/7.

Where you use the word "trance", I would prefer to use a word like "spirit" or "the real you". You get used to it. That it's the real you, I mean. And with time you get used to the idea that Fred Nurk isn't the real you at all.

... You can think about it all you want, you can read about it, you can conceptualize it, but ultimately, you just have to do it. That’s what I intend to do. I will try every day ...
It won't happen overnight, but it will happen. It takes considerable time, even for highly motivated and capable individuals. It's really a type of rebirth, into a more expanded version of the world, as I see it. It's great to hear that you'll work on it every day, Deneon, and that you're not discouraged. You're doing great so far anyway.

Eram

11th January 2013, 08:40

Thank you for yout interpretations TraineeHuman.

..
I tried to learn going astral from about June till half October and then stopped with a sort of astral burn out.
I tried too hard and found out that I lost the will to do it in the process.

Now I am slowly building up again...

I began dreaming of swimming in the ocean. I realised that I could not see the shore and I panicked a little bit.
...
For as long as 20 yeas also, I have dreams about flying in air planes which are about to crash down, or I dream about being in a neighbourhood where planes start crashing down.
I had lots and lots of those dreams when I started to learn to go astral.
After such a dream, I wake up, feeling very connected with my emotions, feelings and loved ones.
It seems that these dreams are about grounding wouldn't you say?
And that my attempts to go astral are leading my to more of these dreams, because I need to get more grounded in order to master this astral thing.

Hi again, Wakytweaky. As far as I understand, dreaming of a plane that you are in, or that is yours, crashing means making a plane wreck of your life. Fortunately, your dreams have been about planes which are about to crash down but actually never do. That suggests to me that for 20 years you've had fears that you might be making a plane crash of your life, but it seems this has never happened, so far. Well, apart from when you had the dream that you swam so far out you nearly drowned.

What I also get is that recently, after 20 years, you're overcoming your fear of making a disaster of your life. I take it you had at least one parent who had very high standards and expected -- or should I say almost kind of demanded? -- that you meet those standards of success and achievement. Anyway, your dreams suggest you've been making a major breakthrough on overcoming fear in general. That's impressive, and congratulations. I don't know if grounding yourself necessarily had so much to do with it, or not on its own.

It's certainly true that for the past 20 years and maybe all my life, I was afraid to 'step' into my life and live it fully as in, standing in my power with my vulnerabilities exposed. This has changed considerable during the past year.

What I don't get though, is that in the days after such a dream... I feel so connected with my life, which would imply to me that these dreams about plane crashing s have some sort of healing quality in them also. That would also explain why these dreams appeared several times when I started to train for OBE's last June, like this being more grounded or connected was a necessary step to get to the point where OBE's where possible.

My father is certainly someone who had and has high standards in the spiritual field and professional field.
I take it that you saw the cord that it stuck into my back? ;)
funny thing is, that the same day that I read your reply, I went to do an OB exercise and after some time I could feel that there was something going to happen.
Then the phone rang and I had to quit what I was doing.
It was my dad and in that conversation he started to explain about al the talents that he sees in me (which he does often).
The problem with my dad is... He isn't aware of his expectations toward me. He convinced himself that they are not there, where in fact... he just suppressed them real hard, like he does with so many things. This makes it difficult for me to see through them and talk with him about it.

Yes, there is and has been a major breakthrough in my attitude toward life and dealing with my fears, which seem to cease to exist when one just steps into them and over them.

...
The other night I tried to go astral and I felt like some people explain when on LSD (I never tried). There was a great sense of speed and there where lots of colours, shapes and forms. I was aware of the 3D body, so I don't know how to interpret this exactly. It felt nice though.
At the very least you were travelling fast and with confidence, and in a higher D than the fourth.

For as long as 20 years minimum, I dream a good percentage of my dreams being in a house. Mostly my house, or my grandparents. But it is always a house that feels like I am staying there, not as a guest, but as a resident.
There are 2 things that are always present in those dreams.
1) In the course of the dream, I discover new rooms that I wasn't aware of. This always feels kind of exciting and in the dream I start planning how to make use of the extra space.
2) There are always people intruding in my private space in those dreams.
-rooms that suddenly connect to rooms of neighbours that walk in freely
-people that just barge in my house with an attitude that they have every right to do so, leaving me unsure what my rights are.
-rooms that where mine before in the dream, now suddenly belong to someone else, who made claim with furniture etc. of his.

You keep discovering new "rooms" in your mind. Great. You keep expanding your horizons, and you never lose your curiosity.
People just barge into your house, without respecting you. I think your dreams are saying you're too nice or polite a person. Sometimes you should probably be more willing to be tough. But they've been saying that for 20 years, and still you've evidently stayed too nice at times.

The part where you explain about people bargin in and that it is a representation of my 'over' politeness... this makes perfect sense to me and I'll take this as a reminder for the future. I made some changes here in the recent months already, but there is work to be done still.
I'm a Libra and my survival technique from childhood on, was to make people like me. This learned skill has enabled me to always know what people want and what would tick them off, which can be of great help when used in a constructive way, but it has indeed also disabled me to be firm about my boundaries, because being firm about it would create situations where people might get upset with me (that has been my fear anyway).
I know this and I also know how to step into the 'me' that is firm, but I don't do it often enough yet.

TraineeHuman

11th January 2013, 09:55

What I don't get though, is that in the days after such a dream... I feel so connected with my life, which would imply to me that these dreams about plane crashing s have some sort of healing quality in them also. That would also explain why these dreams appeared several times when I started to train for OBE's last June, like this being more grounded or connected was a necessary step to get to the point where OBE's where possible.
…
Yes, there is and has been a major breakthrough in my attitude toward life and dealing with my fears, which seem to cease to exist when one just steps into them and over them. …

Because OB experiences usually integrate a person more, it doesn't surprise me that they help you feel more connected with your life -- or, as I might put it, with the real you, which is after all the OB you.

I'm also impressed that you'e willing to simply accept the things your HS was saying in the above dreams. Critical thinking is good, but in my understanding your dreams are always about whatever you don't want to accept about yourself. So it's not a matter of criticising that message from one's own HS, but humbly accepting it. Which you have done.

Dreams also have a wish-fulfilment side to them, and a psychodrama side. By "psychodrama" I just mean acting out possible scenarios, such as what is the worst that might happen if you faced your fears.

TraineeHuman

11th January 2013, 12:16

As well as travelling through space during an OBE, can you also travel in time?

I mean, can you go back in time without it necessarily being a past life memory?
(or forward?)

Yes, to both questions.

I’ve had some experience of time-travel OB, but certainly haven’t learnt how to control it, except half by accident, and only on rare occasions.

What I have learnt to control, however, is the ability to see how anyone will look in the future, or has looked in the past.

I’m afraid it seems to take loads of practice – and probably, prior to such practice, loads of release of stuck emotions/attitudes plus deep meditation -- before I’d expect you can control anything like this. But I have had plenty of practice of using this ability while conducting counselling or psychotherapy. When I work with someone, I like to look at their best possible self. Everybody has a particular face and mindset and inner energy that is precisely the best possible person they could be right now. (I guess their spirit has it, even though the person doesn’t consciously know about it.) I keep looking at that, partly because they then start turning their attention to working to become the best possible them, even though they don’t consciously realize why.

Getting back to your questions, AIAD, you’re talking about space and time as physical concepts, and, as I read you, apparently pretty much only in the very narrow ways that physicists know them. As I’ve been emphasizing, though, the 4D world and higher worlds are not physical, strictly speaking. Instead, what you have in the 4D and 5D worlds is pictures of the physical. Though you do admittedly have capabilities from there to affect the physical world and to find information from it.

In addition to the reasons I’ve mentioned in some of my last few posts, I do have some further motives for wanting to shoo astral travelers away from focusing on what’s closest to or most similar to the physical world. One of the biggest of these additional motives can be described as follows.

If you concentrate on the physical world when you’re in 4D, you’ll immediately sink to the lowest levels of 4D, where you may also find many earthbound spirits – dead people many of whom were alcoholics or drug addicts, and who refuse to believe there is any reality beyond the pictures of the physical world that they see in this part of 4D. The problem is, there in the depths of the lower astral you are potentially in danger of meeting the nasties and, indeed, being deceived by the nasties. If you’re really psychically protecting yourself throughout as I’ve described earlier in this thread, you won’t be in danger at all. But still, it’s not a good place to go exploring. It’s a very rough neighborhood.

In fact, it’s the roughest neighborhood of all. It’s even worse than the worst neighborhoods anywhere in the physical world. You absolutely don’t want to be a stranger there wandering around at night, even if you are equipped with proper protection. And the nasty beings always put on a very attractive and clever mask, which is what you initially see. Why would you risk trying to talk to any of the locals in that neighborhood? Why run the risk of being influenced in a way that could get you trapped after you’ve returned into your physical body – because some of the nasties are masterful con artists. As I’ve mentioned, when people die they initially come in at the exact middle levels of 4D, which are far more (relatively) pleasant.

By the way, even if in 4D you unfortunately do try only to see things from 3D, one example of how they’re different is that if you look carefully enough, you’ll notice they’re always fuzzy-edged.

I believe Leonardo da Vinci was an extraordinarily enlightened being. One way his paintings were different from any other painter before the late nineteenth century was that he painted surfaces as fuzzy-edged. Particularly the important surfaces, such as that there was no line where Mona Lisa’s nose ended, nor her cheek or eye or mouth. Da Vinci used many different shades of dark and light, whereas all the others used pretty much two shades and that was it. He also used many layers of paint and relied on the refraction of light to create the fuzzy-edgedness. He also delighted in making his paintings as ambiguous and unresolved as possible – which is heading in the direction of the formlessness of 6D, even though he certainly wasn’t an abstract expressionist. I guess the Mona Lisa is the most famous painting in the world. But that’s probably because da Vinci left Italy for good with it and didn’t give it to the customer who had commissioned it. As a result he kept working on it longer than with any of his other paintings. But in a nutshell, its appeal could be described as coming from the fact that it presents 4D and even 6D features to the painting’s observer. And deep inside everyone there is some kind of knowledge that they are ultimately a being from some higher dimension.

AwakeInADream

11th January 2013, 13:11

AuCo

11th January 2013, 23:00

TraineeHuman

12th January 2013, 01:00

“The nearby realm” hasn’t been totally evacuated, but there was certainly some kind of gigantic cleanup “above us” around the second half of December, Au Co. So yes, I suppose I’d say quite a few of the inhabitants of the lower astral seem to have been moved out. But not the demonic (human) demigods, as far as I can tell. When I ask my intuition, it says they’re still in prison there. My intuition may be wrong, but I’m not going to visit the prison to check whether or not it’s right. I just don’t have anything to do with them. (As far as I’m aware they were put into prison there around three thousand to six thousand years ago – some earlier than others. And almost the only way they can have any effect on us is through someone performing black magic rituals, primarily.) If anybody knows otherwise from their own direct experience (not through “channeling”), we’d all love to hear from you.

You implicitly raise the very broad question of whether there is any substance to the claim that humankind or whoever was going to “ascend”, probably around late December last year, or starting from that time. Many of the accounts of what “ascension” means are of course not credible to any sensible person who accepts metaphysical phenomena. At least, they’re not credible until there’s a level of evidence for them which so far seems to be fully lacking.

Unfortunately, I have my own reasons for not letting go of the “ascension of mankind” notion, however repugnant it seems to my reason at present. Let me explain. Around ten years ago I had some communications with a being whom – believe it or not -- I consider to have been the most highly evolved human being ever on this planet. I didn’t believe it at the time, either. That being wasn’t Yeshua or Judas, though I have very briefly encountered them and they’re almost at the same level too, but not quite. (But they’re not in charge of Christianity, of course.)

My conversations with that being didn’t involve “channeling”, but what is traditionally called “visions”. Visions occur while one is wide awake, and are very precise and clear, and in fact look much more “real” than ordinary waking experience – in a way, rather like watching a 3D movie with those special glasses makes the movie look more real.

This being devoted two whole visions of about a quarter of an hour to patiently trying to explain to me what dimensions were and why they were important. Although I’d had plenty of direct experience of many different dimensions at that time, through meditation or OB “travel”, up till then I hadn’t thought of them in those particular terms. The being kept saying they were like glass ceilings. Although one could get higher and higher within each dimension, breaking through to the next dimension up was always harder.

This being also told me that to be free of having to reincarnate in the physical world and be otherwise freed of the responsibilities I had taken on, I would need to break through three glass ceilings that lie above the physical world. Then he qualified that by saying that things would change and by the time I died, only two glass ceilings would be necessary – not just for me, but for every human being on the planet.

I didn’t believe many of the things this being told me, even though this seemed to be the most proactive being I had ever met, and the most totally free of any hint of negativity. And the one who had said more in fewer word/ideas than anybody else, ever. But everything this being predicted would happen to me in the future did happen, on the exact days predicted.

This leads me to the hypothesis that maybe when humans die on this planet, it’ll soon be the case that they’ll normally go straight to 5D.

I’m still doing what I can to research this whole big question.

AwakeInADream

12th January 2013, 03:01

Those Demons sound scarey(I hope they're still caged), I wonder did that black magic ritual they called the London Olympics have any major negative effects in the Astral world?

And what about all of those ritualistic mass murders we had last year?

Thank's for sharing your wonderful insights and experiences TH!:)

The 3 glass ceilings thing just reminded me of a 'spiritual/lucid' dream I had a few years back (I can tell when they are 'special') with my white robed guide(1 of only 3 I've ever had with him), in which he showed me a list of 5 things (I took to be fears), and of this list two were crossed off leaving only three left.
I had the distinct impression that the 3 remaining things(fears or types of fear) on this list were the challenges I would later face in this life(or the next), and that my guide was giving me a progress report, so to speak.
I wonder if overcoming one of the fears on this list might be like breaking a glass ceiling?

Anyway, as yet 3 remain...

Awake

TraineeHuman

12th January 2013, 03:28

There are various intelligent beings around at a microscopic level. That’s one thing I have discovered directly, and therefore kind of undeniably, through OB “travel”. The Greeks quite clearly claimed that the atoms were all gods. (Whyever would the original creators of atomic theory say that? Democritus and co. were hard-headed philosophers. They weren’t superstitious nuts.) Well, my clear experience has been that atoms and subatomic “particles” at least seem to be probably more intelligent than humans.

That’s not all. Physics, and modern science, dogmatically assumes – completely without proof -- that all reality is reducible, to ever simpler and simpler components. But I have to say my experience of atomic and subatomic reality strongly suggests that atoms, etc actively put physical reality together. It’s really the other way around. Atoms, etc. act more like subjects than like objects. This is a synthetic instead of a reductionist approach. As such, it lies wholly outside of science, because science won’t accept any approach that’s different from the particular blinkered one that it dogmatically proclaims, without proof or reason, to be the only reality. (Quantum theory involves some very, very small concessions to using synthetic concepts rather than pure reductionism. But this is done very grudgingly, and such subject matter is always labeled as “paradoxical”. The implication being that one day all such “paradoxes” will be eliminated through purely reductionist explanations.)

If you allow for now that what I’m saying may be the truth, that opens up the question of whether atoms and subatomic phenomena are physical or whether they are in fact 4D or 5D. Maybe physical reality just isn’t reducible to anything, but rather the whole of physical reality is a continuing project that keeps being recreated and even developed further by something or some beings that lie “above”.

In my next post I’ll present some discoveries from nuclear physics that seem to fit very well with this explanation. But that subject matter’s a little technical, so I’ll save it for a post of its own.

TraineeHuman

12th January 2013, 21:59

Physics knows certain facts about what crosses the 4D/3D border. Not many, but some. I’m referring to the area of conventional physics known as “strange particle physics”. A particle is considered “strange” when it violates the most basic laws of physics. For instance, if it has an electric charge, it’s considered “strange” as long as it behaves as if it had the opposite charge (such as negative instead of positive), or as if it had no electric charge.

It’s been proved that more than 80% of all subatomic particles – from the size of an electron/positron/neutrino/photon, and smaller – are being “strange” at any given time. And that’s not counting the ones that have temporarily popped out of the physical universe at the time. You see, another type of strangeness is the ability to pop in or out of existence in the physical universe at any time. Physicists are completely unable to predict when such “popping” will occur, or when it will get undone. They are also totally unable to understand why it occurs.

Another interesting feature of strange particles is that at any time close to exactly 50% of them prefer to travel backwards in time – from the future to the past. This is in complete violation of the principle in physics that the past causes the future (supposedly). You can find a description of these and some more details in The Dancing Wu-Li Masters, by Gary Zukav. (Incidentally, Zukav has gone on to discover and write books about person-centred psychology, or what he would call “soul stories” or maybe “soul psychology”. I don’t like his exercises but he’s really grasped the importance of the core principles, such as how centrally important it is for a person to genuinely like themselves.)

I first learned about strange particles in the early 80s, from a physicist who was a Fellow of the Royal Society (the most prestigious group in the world to be a member of, for scientists). He pointed out that there is an element – mercury – which is actually a strange element. He assured me that the surface tension in a glob of mercury is by no means strong enough to make the bottom part of the glob of mercury curve upwards. But anyway, he was aware that a group of physicists in Paris had by then already proved that there must exist an entire “higher” universe into and out of which the strange particles pop. That universe would be higher in the sense that not all the laws of the physical universe would be able to apply there. These days I believe the credit for proving that that higher universe must exist seems to have gone to others, who did their work at a later date.

So, it certainly looks like physics recognizes the existence of, if not the 4D world, then of something with some suspicious similarities.

May I also emphasize that physics has not even the slightest explanation of how or why over 80% of subatomic reality manages to violate its laws at any given moment. Imagine if 80% of the cars on a major road either drove on the wrong side of the road or in reverse, or came crashing into existence anywhere on the road at completely unpredictable times. Would you say the laws of the road were being followed? Would you say they were an accurate description of what was happening there? Would you and the police and everyone else not demand a full investigation and explanation of what was going on? Well, the physicists totally sweep all that under the carpet. Could it be that in some way they might otherwise have to publicly admit that a higher, non-physical or at least semi-physical, and hence metaphysical, world has been proved to exist?

TraineeHuman

13th January 2013, 00:28

... during an OBE, can you also travel in time?

I mean, can you go back in time without it necessarily being a past life memory?
(or forward?)
Learning to remote-view the likeliest probable futures is a skill comparable to learning to be a champion golf player at the highest professional level – only it’s harder still. Even the greatest golf players put some shots into the rough, and may stay outside the top thirty throughout a tournament.

Still, the best that I can do – and probably ever will do – is to give some longer-term general, rather vague sightings. Yes, there will be earth changes in the future, but certainly not in the next five years. It still seems likely to me that there’ll be a kind of Mad Max scenario throughout the world in maybe ten (?) or twenty (?) years time. Maybe there’ll be financial breakdown that causes members of the police and military not to receive any pay permanently? It also seems very likely that following such a period there’ll be a major and long golden age on the planet. I don’t believe the corrupt current ruling elite will make it, or not with much power, on this planet at least.

TraineeHuman

13th January 2013, 18:19

Please, anyone doing OBE lately notice a total evacuation of any places in the nearby realm?

Also, if anyone share the following experience:
I, from time to time would do surface skimming, in the dream that is. And that would tell me that I was dreaming. But once and only, in this physical 3D, I was doing it fast backward about 7 feet and landed softly like a feather. :confused:

AuCo, would you be able to tell us more about what you mean exactly by “surface skimming”? Obviously it’s a way to make sure whether you’re OB at the time.

But by “surface” do you mean the ground or the floor? Or the surface of the Earth?

And exactly how do you “skim”? Do you think to yourself that you want to travel very quickly along it?

lookbeyond

13th January 2013, 23:18

TraineeHuman

14th January 2013, 01:51

Hi TH, do you feel that visions are able to manifest in 3D as a result of being comprised of the sub atomic strange particles that are able to pop in and out of the physical universe? This in my limited understanding explains it for me- lb

That's an insightful idea, lookbeyond. I would say that many visions manifest in 4D or 5D. The fact that they seem so much more vivid and clear than what we see in the 3D world suggests they are made of whatever 4D or 5D contain. Basically, 4D is the world of energies and emotions, but everything in it has some kind of form.

I suspect that when strange particles leave 3D they carry with them information about the 3D world, hence they can contribute to pictures in 4D of things in the 3D world. I suspect that strange particles probably stop being particles and become absorbed into fields, within which, however, they may retain their "memory" from their life as a particle, and hence their "individuality".

In my experience, visions have usually involved some formless features. I've also been puzzled by them because they were so unfamiliar, and I'm sure my mind tried to reduce everything to looking like things in 3D, if only because that was what it's the most familiar with.

lookbeyond

14th January 2013, 04:20

Thanks TH- the reason i ask is i had a vision whilst wide awake in 3D (naturally) and it was in response to prayer. So to my mind this "being" (the beautiful arms of) manifested out of "the air" above my sick daughters head. The theory of strange particles is also to my mind, a way for beings to manifest to us so that we can see them with our 3D eyes,... more dots in my puzzle solving,

Thanks lb

TraineeHuman

14th January 2013, 07:39

I love Leonardo!:) He practiced 'wall gazing' rather like looking at the clouds to see what pictures would appear,
and he kept the 'Mona Lisa' with him at all times. I suspect that he had a spiritual connection to the work and that perhaps
the face was channeled(a Goddess?), the blurred edges maybe creating the illusion that she was alive and in motion perhaps even speaking to him.
I bet he had many ways and means of communicating with his higher self.

I think that artists have a slight advantage in this respect because of their ability to tap into the mysterious realm of inspiration.
I find my self, when I paint that sometimes I go into a light trance and that the brush strokes seem to place themselves.
I think Picasso once said 'I don't seek, I find', which I think is describing a similar process, that the artists inspiration is really the higher self coming through.

Wall-gazing meditation is a common practice in Japanese Zen Buddhism to this very day. (I usually prefer to meditate with eyes slightly open. If yoiu go deep enough, they start to open slightly anyway, but stay slightly unfocussed.) I would suspect that Leonardo was gazing at blank walls in order to reach certain high dimensions. I suspect his intention may have been partly to somehow convey something of the flavor of such dimensions in his paintings.

In 13D and higher, there is no subject as distinct from any object – and therefore no painter versus the work of art. You could say that the painter and the work of art become totally united in and by the act of painting. All there is is the activity of painting. That activity may have spinoff effects in both the painter and the work on the canvas. But from the point of view of 13D, the separation between the two is illusory.

AwakeInADream

14th January 2013, 10:35

Have you noticed that Art galleries are quiet places of reverence almost like church?
I think that in a way, whilst looking at great paintings of the centuries gone by, you may really be gazing into the soul of the Artist.
I guess that's why some work is very highly priced, since the soul itself is priceless.

-------------------------------------------------------------

I have a question to do with strange particles that also relates to what LookBeyond mentioned.

I've heard it said lately that 'the veil is thinning', so I'm wondering if this is true as a physical fact?
Is something changing in the world, or is it simply people who are progressing?

Is it really becoming easier as time progresses to see into the higher dimensions?

And also is it getting easier for higher beings to manifest in this one?

AuCo

14th January 2013, 18:05

soleil

14th January 2013, 18:44

TraineeHuman

15th January 2013, 01:24

...
I've heard it said lately that 'the veil is thinning', so I'm wondering if this is true as a physical fact?
Is something changing in the world, or is it simply people who are progressing?

Is it really becoming easier as time progresses to see into the higher dimensions?

And also is it getting easier for higher beings to manifest in this one?

First it might help to clear away some debris before I attempt a response to your questions, Awake.

Any talk of "the veil lifting" is passive. How about "you lifting the veil" at least for yourself?

Near the beginning of this thread I talked about how vital great detachment is. Well, the whole 3D world itself is just something that everyone keeps creating. It's a game we all agreed to play in (as some kind of wild bet, maybe?). We agreed to play so long ago we've forgotten we did.

To become free of the 3D world permanently, what you need is huge independence of mind -- make that independence of spirit. You need to swim totally against the current of what everybody else around you believes to be the most rock-solid reality.

Can you do that? That's "all" it takes to tear up the entire 3D "veil". But do you have the strength to say : "Let the whole world stand against me. I don't care. Let them go jump in the lake. I'll hold my own against absolutely all other opinions and so-called facts." That's the level of detachment. You do that, and you'll be able to fly easily enough.

Will you dare to do it? Do you dare to go there now? Now is the only time. Will you create something extraordinary out of nothing, rather like Leonardo often did? And some people -- even spiritual teachers -- are so misguided they want to claim that enlightenment means sacrificing some of your true individuality. Codswollop.

If I may, I'd like to invite you to pause for a moment for some stillness and groundedness before we continue.

lookbeyond

15th January 2013, 02:29

Hi TH- i cannot fully abandon 3D because of the connection to my children. I want to but am holding back because of the glimpses ive had, i feel i may not be able to control it and need my mind to be stable for the purposes of being a mother.The interest is so strong thats why im always reading and yet my psychic mother experienced physical attack from ? astral/ET - this is also a concern- i know love is the strongest defence yet being out of a familiar environment one is surely vulnerable to surprise
element, and from reading horus-ra thread i do wonder how safe IS the astral?

Kind Reguards lookbeyond

AwakeInADream

15th January 2013, 04:04

I think I understand what you're saying TH, that the 3D world is just a dream, and I should stand firm in this knowledge. That the mind is more real, and that mind creates the game.
As Einstein said "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one".

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh! Since Lookbeyond mentioned the Horus-Ra (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit&p=430802&viewfull=1#post430802) Archonic types, I don't really understand that thread, but I'm of the opinion that if you remain vigilant and mindful of your thoughts and without fear then those guy's cant really hurt you, can they?
I mean, it's mind that they attack isn't it, and if you have control of your mind then that's check mate isn't it?(I might be wrong...like I said I don't really get that thread:o)

Can you give us any advice on what to do should we bump into any unpleasant(to say the least) entities?

(I guess that at a deeper level mind too is an illusion and that only the Spirit is real, but.. one step time...)

P.S. I'm starting to realize that this thread has greater implications than simply leaving the body:

Neo: What are you trying to tell me? That I can dodge bullets?
Morpheus: No, Neo. I'm trying to tell you that when you're ready, you won't have to.

Your a pretty cool teacher TH!:cool:
Thanks!:)

TraineeHuman

15th January 2013, 05:05

... my psychic mother experienced physical attack from ? astral/ET - this is also a concern- i know love is the strongest defence yet being out of a familiar environment one is surely vulnerable to surprise
element, and from reading horus-ra thread i do wonder how safe IS the astral?

Kind Regards lookbeyond

It doesn’t make sense to me for anyone to be concerned about psychic attack while they go OB but not any less concerned about it when they aren’t OB traveling – unless that person happens to have been a victim of very strong abuse, or has been a practitioner of black magic. The same rules of “hygiene” apply in both areas. You don’t let yourself be a victim through possessing a lack of awareness in whatever situation you’re in.

If you keep washing your hands properly beforehand and within minutes or less after each time you’ve touched anything that might have made contact with them that could even cause infection, you won’t ever get infected. To me, that’s what psychic protection means.

Because I was a natural psychic healer from childhood on, at one stage I decided I must be good at doing exorcisms. I used to go out of my way to try to bully and chase away demonic beings, or dead indigenous beings whose traditional burial sites had been violated. So I do know directly what some psychic attacks can be like.

As far as I understand, there are only four likely causes of psychic attack. One can occur if the individual has used drugs some time in the past. That may have opened up a psychic vulnerability and weakness that hasn’t healed yet. If such an individual gets attacked while they’re OB, that then makes them aware that the unhealed psychic wound is there, and they can work on it. But the wound won’t get any worse because of such an attack – unless they’re foolish enough to have used drugs right now to get OB. I haven’t read the Horus-Ra thread, but it’s clear that Justoneman has done great job of finding and working on all his wounds.

The second cause is something like extreme abuse – which can be purely verbal – from a figure such as a spouse or a parent. Such abuse breaks an individual’s self-esteem and their confidence. That type of treatment is psychic attack, but while the individual definitely wasn’t OB traveling. But it can cause the individual to have a weaker hold of their body, so to speak. That can be a kind of red flag for some exploitative beings without bodies, or some with bodies too, to take advantage of that individual.

The third cause is if there is a very aware person, or someone who is strongly corded to the individual, who has put a strong spell or curse or voodoo on the individual. But that will apply equally whether you are OB or in your body. And the way to heal yourself of its effects is effectively the same as the way to psychically protect yourself, as I have described. And again, going OB could help the individual become aware that the problem exists.

The fourth cause is through doing or having done something that is black magic. Or else the equivalent of black magic, i.e. deliberately summoning some forces of negativity to adversely affect another individual.

(Well, I guess the fifth cause would be if you attack demonic beings.)

In conclusion, to any normal person I would say there’s nothing to fear as long as you psychically protect yourself properly. And yes, real love, or rising to at least 6D, is another form of psychic protection different than what I’ve mentioned so far.

And if you have been a victim of serious abuse or a black magician, or you used plenty of drugs, first you probably do need to get healed of much of the effects of that before you go exploring OB.

Vitalux

15th January 2013, 05:09

For what it is worth.

About 5 months ago, I started focusing on having an OBE
I achieved it.

It can be done, all one has to do is stay focused with intent and intention.
Most nights now I explore.

TraineeHuman

15th January 2013, 05:17

I think I understand what you're saying TH, that the 3D world is just a dream, and I should stand firm in this knowledge. That the mind is more real, and that mind creates the game.... I'm of the opinion that if you remain vigilant and mindful of your thoughts and without fear then those guy's cant really hurt you, can they?
I mean, it's mind that they attack isn't it, and if you have control of your mind then that's check mate isn't it?(I might be wrong...like I said I don't really get that thread:o)

Can you give us any advice on what to do should we bump into any unpleasant(to say the least) entities?

(I guess that at a deeper level mind too is an illusion and that only the Spirit is real, but.. one step time...)

P.S. I'm starting to realize that this thread has greater implications than simply leaving the body..

If you meet any entity or being in the astral, you just need to have sufficient sense of your own worth to demand that they show you who they really are. Also to stand your ground if they try to ignore you or to be arrogant towards you. And if they look like they want to mess with you in any way, simply tell them up front that they have to get your permission first before they attempt to do anything to you, and they they don't have your permission. They rely totally on bluff.

Also surround yourself with healing light. And give them healing. You can also call on your guardian angels at any time, which may sound corny but watch that being run away fast if you do that. And also stay feeling like you're in charge of yourself, rather than frozen in fear, as you say, Awake.

Eram

15th January 2013, 05:24

question for all those who are attempting to OBE and who actually do OBE....are any of you guys parents to young children? if so, do you have any advice to any people who also have young children; or advice on how to learn/do OBE with young children?

like for example at the end of a day i am really tired at night, and can sometimes feel drained. i'd like to still attempt to OBE, but i feel like my energy is consumed and my sleep is hijacked just so that i can re-energize. i still read/learn and consume info all the time on OBE and energy sensations etc. so i'm very bodily/energy aware (learning to be)...i'd love some help.

Hi teradactyl,

I'm a father of 2 children (5 & 2 years old) and I know exactly how you feel :P.
Since I run our bed and breakfast and work on a internet project at home, my girlfriend has a job away from home, it is my duty to attend the children during the day time.
I need my sleep hard at night and trying to go OBE at night is not populair with me too.

Many people advice to do this during the day time anyway and so do I.
I have the luxury that between 12:00 h and 13:30 h, mostly... I have time of so I can lay down at the sofa and give it a go.
That would be my advice...
Try to seek for a moment during the daytime for doing your practices.

TraineeHuman

15th January 2013, 06:30

question for all those who are attempting to OBE and who actually do OBE....are any of you guys parents to young children? if so, do you have any advice to any people who also have young children; or advice on how to learn/do OBE with young children?

like for example at the end of a day i am really tired at night, and can sometimes feel drained. i'd like to still attempt to OBE, but i feel like my energy is consumed and my sleep is hijacked just so that i can re-energize. i still read/learn and consume info all the time on OBE and energy sensations etc. so i'm very bodily/energy aware (learning to be)...i'd love some help.

Hi T.,
I happen to know that Shamz has a young child and other responsibilities, but still manages to do OBE and probably other forms of spiritual or personal development - and I hope she doesn't mind if I say she's doing it all with great success and very ambitiously -- but still successfully. At present she's away overseas, but she may be able to reply in about a week's time.

TraineeHuman

15th January 2013, 18:53

Surface skimming: making long stride along a clear path, just inches off ground for as long as I wish to stay afloat. Yes, this happens when I feel some what in a rush, and only in a dream, until it actually happened in real life.
Are you saying you can levitate, AuCo? If so, what did you do to learn that? Meditation? T'ai chi? Q'i gong? And how often did you practise? Did you have a teacher?

TraineeHuman

16th January 2013, 01:08

... i cannot fully abandon 3D because of the connection to my children. I want to but am holding back because of the glimpses ive had, i feel i may not be able to control it and need my mind to be stable for the purposes of being a mother. ...

Realizing you're far, far more than your body, making it real to you that you are -- that's the big issue. Awake hit the nail on the head there. (OB "travel" is only one of so many, many ways to begin to realise this.)

Why might that be relevant to being an outstandingly good parent? Because every child is born knowing it is Source. It's only the parents and siblings that gradually teach the child no, you're just a body. Children learn from their parents, primarily from copying them, copying what it is to be them.

Some famous studies have proved that up till the age of eight months on average, an infant believes their mother is actually a part of them, an extension. Kind of like you don't always see your foot but you know it's there and it does pretty much what you want it to when you need it. At earlier ages than that, infants believe they are the universe.

Why does it make a huge difference to have a parent who knows for a fact that they are far more than their physical body? Because the root of all neuroses, all unhappiness, is created by the child's being forced to believe that it isn't Source.

I understand one spiritual teacher. Andrew Cohen, used to believe that anyone who experienced genuine spiritual enlightenment was automatically cleansed of all their neuroses, pretty much. I guess he probably should have known better. But you understand why he believed that, given what the origin of all neuroses and psychological problems is.

And the reason why enlightenment doesn't immediately resolve everything (or mean that everything has now been resolved) is as follows. Once you've realised and truly live in the fact that you're Source, it still takes decades to dissolve away the roots of all your psychological failings.But if you live long enough in a condition of such realisation of what you truly are, eventually all the baggage will be dissolved. To you, life will become more and more like a (drug-free) party. And when I say "life", I mean doing things that to everyone else are very hard work, like raising a child, or doing the most boring or the most lowly form of work. Even that will become a party to you if that's what the universe makes it your lot to do.

In my next post, I guess it'll help to explain a little about what being Source does and doesn't actually mean in practice.

And let's not forget that I'm not here just to give you theory. I'm assuming you're all working to make it more practical. Otherwise, the theory always sounds way more complicated than the reality when you experience it, or even partly experience glimpses of it.

TraineeHuman

17th January 2013, 10:33

I've heard it said lately that 'the veil is thinning', so I'm wondering if this is true as a physical fact?
Is something changing in the world, or is it simply people who are progressing?

Is it really becoming easier as time progresses to see into the higher dimensions?

And also is it getting easier for higher beings to manifest in this one?
We don’t lose our true individuality by being one with Source – that’s what I claim. In fact, we are all Source, and yet we are all different. How can this be?

I like the Zen Master Joshu’s metaphor for the universe (for all there is) of a diamond with, say, trillions of faces. Who you really are is that diamond, seen through one of its faces.

Each face is unique. In that one face is a reflection of some sort of all the other faces. But you have a unique, individual angle, a unique take on (every-)things.

The faces of the diamond nearest to yours are (probably) all human ones – other humans. So, if any one human learns how to glow with light, the reflection of their light will automatically spread somewhat to all other humans, and also to all the rest of the earth, and even, somewhat, to the ends of the multiverse.

There is a Buddhist story that each time one of the Buddha’s students reached enlightenment, the trees would release a huge shower of petals and leaves. Maybe that story is meant just as a metaphor. But each being’s liberation affects all the rest of existence in a positive if unseen way.

Because of this, my understanding is that humanity has been constantly lifted higher overall, at least from the end of the Dark Ages. And things certainly have been accelerating in recent decades.

And as far as individuality goes, I say that true individuality can only express itself – and therefore be itself – where it is combined with profound interdependence with other consciousnesses. In my experience, enlightened individuals are very individualistic, even though at the same time they are usually very simple.

I probably haven't given anything like a complete reply to Awake's questions yet, so I'm doing as much as I can in instalments.

By the way, there's more to it than that. For instance, Source is more like a verb than a noun, as is the real us.

ROMANWKT

17th January 2013, 10:41

Watch these videos, and you will understand what an OBE is and how it all fit to your very self

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54427-My-Friend-Lester-Levenson

Regards

roman

TraineeHuman

17th January 2013, 10:49

Roman, do you have any experience of OBEs? If so, could you perhaps tell us what it (such experience, as strictly distinct from your theory of everything) was like?

ROMANWKT

17th January 2013, 11:18

Roman, do you have any experience of OBEs? If so, could you perhaps tell us what it (such experience, as strictly distinct from your theory of everything) was like?

In this case I will let the videos answer it for you, it does not come from me my dear friend, but from somebody who know very well as your self.

Kindest regards TraineeHuman

roman

Libico

18th January 2013, 04:07

Thought I’d post an experience that I just woke up from.

Dream of being cheated on but still remain happy and loving throughout the process. Love my wife and wish that she was with me, but am OK with the fact that she left me for someone else, as she might not be as happy with me as I am with her and I truly want the best for her. The feelings were genuine in the dream – I did feel very hurt initially, but by end felt what I can only describe as pure happiness and a sense of closure unlike anything I’ve felt in 3D. This could have a big part because I read around 60% of the document that ROMANWKT posted (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54427-My-Friend-Lester-Levenson&p=617810&viewfull=1#post617810[/url]) yesterday on Lester Levenson.

After they leave (they confront me on couch where I get them to admit it to me and get it out in the open) I reflect to myself how odd this feeling is – that I am “ok” with my wife leaving me and I still can be supremely happy for them. I look in the mirror and something seems “off”. I test this by trying to push my finger through the glass to test if this is a dream. I fail to pierce the glass (my finger forceably hits the glass), but somehow I become lucid anyway. I take a few seconds to marvel in the lucidity and immediately request to go OB.

I feel a rush/surge of energy and start to float “upwards” as everything fades to black, which is similar to what has happened in other experiences. As things are fading I become excited at the vibrations and recall my previous OBE where everything was fairly hazy. I say to myself in an amused this “THIS time I want everything to be clear” (my last experience that originated from a lucid dream was extremely hazy because for some reason I didn’t ask for clarity). The vibrations intensify and everything fades to black completely as I surge upwards.

I appear in what I can describe as a big room that resembles a department store only near empty of tables/shelves – the space is quite open with a few tables strewn about the space. There is an entity in front of me that I hold a short conversation with (can’t recall how he looks but he had a tall blue hat and was much shorter than me). The first thing I do is ask for clarity and for clarity to remain with me throughout this experience. I get it and am satisfied so I start to wander around this room. I walk a bit, do a little flying/floating around and soon ask to meet my higher self. What happens next is strange and leads me to believe that it’s possible that this was just a lucid a dream*, or I could have been in 5D or 6D based on what TraineeHuman has described… the whole experience seemed rife with symbolism so I’m left wondering.

After asking to meet my HS I feel a rush of energy and from the ceiling lowers down a banner of sorts with a website address on it (it was clear in my memory as I was in this experience as I was trying to decipher it throughout the dream). It was a plain white banner but on either end of the banner were Styrofoam objects that looked like a ball with 50 or see spikes sticking out from it all around. I found this fascinating and tried all sorts of methods to decipher this message and meet my HS within the experience with no success.

I soon realized I was not alone in this area. There were probably around 20-30 little “people” running around. Each person was around 1.5m tall (from all ages, through 90% adults) and they were very busy running around working – some were creating things, other setting things up – reinforcing the idea that this was a department store of sorts (likely this was my mind translating it for me). They all seemed supremely happy with what they were doing and I started talking to a woman who looked to be around 50. We chatted about something I can’t remember now, but she suggested that I go and speak to the “mayor” (again I felt like this was my mind translating it) – the Mayor was a man (who was my size/height) standing in an area kind of delegating and helping the people with whatever problems they might have. I got to him and started to talk to him but two more people came up immediately and started talking to him. They were younger (15ish or so) so I stepped aside and let them speak to him. One finished and a 5 year old boy ran up and cut in line – the Mayor gave him a few words and he ran away with a huge smile on his face. The other girl spoke to him and then came my turn. I remember feeling pressed for time as I can wake up and go back to my body at any moment, but it felt like the right thing to do to let the other speak to him first.

I asked the mayor for help with deciphering the message that was given to me and he quickly answered “do you see that little boy over there (pointing to the boy who ran off)? He is a very special boy. You should speak to him”. I went over to the boy and got down on one knee and asked him his name. He was so adorable and nice (and happy!) that I felt such happiness being around him. As we talked one of the older people chimed in as she was passing by doing her work that this boy had been a 50 year old back in 3D in his previous life. As I woke up I feel that I had misinterpreted that and he had reincarnated on Earth 50 times; the woman commented this in an amused way when I was thinking to myself how young he must be. So as we talked I eventually asked him if he knew what my next step was, as I very much wanted to meet my HS in this consciousness; I asked him if he could help/guide me. As five year olds do when they get excited he jumped up and screamed “Yes!” and took off with a huge smile on his face towards the area of the store where the banner was.

As I was following him I felt things lose lucidity and I knew that I’d be heading back to my physical body. I tried to fight it but to no avail. I woke up with my 1.5 year old crying for his morning bottle so didn’t have time to reflect and recall the experience in its entirety as I usually like to do.

* What I felt here has me questioning each of my experiences that originated from being lucid in my dreamlike state. I have had several experiences that originated from being awake in 3D, and several which have originated from lucid dreams. I believe that both experiences are genuine, but the experiences originating from lucid dreams are different. I do not think the experience like the above is simply part of the lucid dream – I have had lucid dreams before both with clarity and without and they are different from these experiences. I can’t really describe how, but if I had to try I would say lucid experiences are less structured and still a little “wild/chaotic” like my normal dreams are.
It’s possible that these experiences are happening in a higher dimension than 4D but it’s difficult for me to say with my limited experience.

TraineeHuman

18th January 2013, 10:54

The so-called “veil hiding the higher dimensions” might be better understood if we take a closer look at what parts of us are in which dimensions. In post #184 I already explained how that rattling, vibrating, electromagnetic energy field so familiar to astral travelers is the ego, or the personality.

You’ll notice, if you have astral traveling experience, that it must also be the same thing as your 4D body – the part that’s 4D.

I’ve come across spiritual teachers and schools of thought who seem to believe that the best way to treat the ego is to shoot it! Well, as long as we have 3D bodies we really need that 4D part.

That’s because – as parts of Chinese medicine describe so well in detail – it’s the thing that keeps our body living and our heart beating and our lungs breathing and so on. It’s ironic to me that some meditators believe they are practicing watching the breath in order to “get rid of the ego”, yet what they are initially surrendering to is the total control of their breathing by the ego – admittedly, operating in a balanced way and in combination with higher D parts of themselves.

One problem with the 4D body – the ego – is of course that it tries to manipulate and control everything in our lives. It does have a certain small amount of consciousness and awareness. Apart from that, it’s quite robotic. Its manipulation is quite sneaky. Before I looked at some of Lester Levenson’s videos I had already decided to mention here that the go operates in a roller-coaster fashion. I notice some of Levenson’s videos are coincidentally titled “Getting off the roller-coaster”. The ego tries to put us on a roller-coaster of emotions. It seemingly disappears, allowing us to feel good, and then at other times it switches on its cravings and attachments and grumpiness, rather arbitrarily. As a result we sense that the real self is not fully in control – of our own lives.

I believe some parts of Libico’s dream in post #237 are to do with going quite free of the 4D body, and therefore of the ego (as I understand it) altogether.

A second problem with the ego is the emotional wounds and imbalances it carries – until and if these are healed. One example we know rather well, and that has been discussed somewhat on Avalon, is the way the Illuminati use major abuse to bring up their children. Thus the child is taught that she or he is “nothing”, is powerless, worthless, worthy of zero respect.

The Illuminati presumably know that there is a healing process which comes from higher Ds. Specifically, it comes from 8D (a world where insights are the dominant “material”) or 7D (a world where points of view are the dominant wildlife). That process, the Illuminati know, will eventually lead the abused individual to become an abuser of others and to have a phony superiority complex. The individual will eventually seek to behave as if the opinions and views and rights of others are worthless. And that the only worthwhile things are whatever the individual decides or imposes.

In the natural order, the individual should mature out of such a tyrannical personality, but Svali’s testimony suggests the Illuminati go to great lengths to get individuals stuck at that point, and to complicate matters by adding the corruption that power usually brings.

Notice, however, that that tyrannical personality is a 4D thing. And it is created through using certain concepts (5D things).

Notice also that if we can learn to achieve “mastery” or true maturity over our ego, then we will already in effect be making our choices in life from 5D or higher. Even if we never get to clearly visit the 5D world through OB travel, we will then certainly know what it’s like to be coming from 5D or higher all the time.

TraineeHuman

19th January 2013, 02:07

Libico, any dream is itself a message from your HS regarding whatever you most don’t want to face in your current life at the time. You talk of wanting to meet your HS? Well, in recalling the details of a dream, you’re hearing your HS talking. The important step is to convert hearing into listening – which usually comes down to “dream interpretation”. And let me stress again that by far the most indeed the only primary principle is that the dream is showing you what most don’t want to face. There may be any number of reasons why you happen to not want to face that thing right now.

I really liked the first part of your dream. As my last post (# 239) may help to make clearer, during the dream you seemed to me to be seriously detaching from your ego – and therefore from the 4D world – altogether. I’ve spoken of the crucial importance of real detachment, and there you are, having the guts to explore what the implications would be of totally detaching from your ego. Having to face losing your beloved wife, if it ever came to that, on a psychological level rather than having it really happen to you.

Some spiritually inclined people used to take vows of poverty or sold everything they had and gave it to the poor, or else they practiced cruel austerities on themselves physically. And at the end of the day I suggest they weren’t achieving a fuller insight through such practices than what you are cutting to the chase and doing already.

For whatever reason, I suggest you basically don’t want to face that you’re achieving such detachment. Why, I don’t know. It’s your dream, your HS. All I can say is that it’s true 100% of the time that a dream shows you what your HS knows you’re not facing, not admitting to yourself.

The second part of your dream suggests that although you’re coming from quite a good “level” of awareness, you’re somehow not going about getting to “your HS” in a way that will work. I would assume that here by “your HS” you mean the parts of you that are 13D and higher? It sounds like your dream was saying that the way you were being when you were five was closer to what would help you succeed in that quest than the kind of effort you seem to be using at present.

TraineeHuman

19th January 2013, 14:27

Higher dimensions have more highly strange yet rigorously provable qualities by far than what we’ve seen so far with strange particle physics. Incidentally, that might perhaps more accurately be called “strange particle non-physics”, since at present physicists can’t even begin to explain why or how strange particles behave the way they do.

Let’s take a small look at one part of the world of 6D. (Incidentally, fans of merkabas etc etc should note I don’t mean the world of six dimensions of form, but the first dimension of total formlessness – which, I assure you, is very different, and awesomely “higher up” than that. I’ve OB visited other planets which had six or more dimensions of form and I’ve seen what life is like there, so I’m going on extensive direct first-hand experience here – well, direct first-hand very clear memories obtained OB, I guess.)

The world of 6D is the one in which intentions take the centre of the stage – much as in 4D it’s emotions or energy and in 5D it’s concepts. You could also say the 6D world is full of and focused on ideas, but just before they take a form where you can put them into words.

The whole area of intentionality has been studied by philosophers and somewhat by some psychologists, so there are many things we can say we know for certain about it. (Sorry, it’s not a totally “unsayable” place at all.)

One of the biggest things is that some of the laws of logic or “rationality” break down there. For instance, the world of intentionality – the 6D world -- is the world of “wish” or “believe” or “hope” or “(in fantasy) imagine as” or “know” or “prefer”, to name a few of the biggies. The 6D world is a huge place – and talk about multiple timelines! Each individual has at least one wished-for timeline and at least one most-feared timeline, for instance. You do the math.

Let’s say, for instance, that some person (with an intellectual handicap?) believes that Nathan Rothschild is the nicest person on the planet. And let’s suppose we’re using the word “nicest” in some very precise sense in which it so happens to be determinable that Mary Nurk is in reality quite definitely the nicest person. Well, it doesn’t then follow that the poor person believes that Nathan Rothschild is Mary Nurk. Yet, according to the laws of logic, and anywhere in the 3D world where we don’t use intentionality since that would involve using something that’s 6D, logic would require Rothschild to be identical with Nurk, wouldn’t it?

Or, let’s try another example. Let’s say you wish, or hope, to win a certain lottery at its next draw. For the sake of this example, let’s say that the next winner is determined by a certain machine that selects that ticket-buyer who buys their ticket the closest to a certain precise time. Let’s also suppose that the machine has already preselected the time, and that it was in the past. At that time, it so happened that Gladys Underhill, of a certain address, was issued a ticket by her newsagent that is already destined to be the winning ticket. You don’t know this, and as you buy your ticket later the same day you have the wish and the hope that the winner is you. Notice, though, that you’re not wishing or hoping to be Gladys Underhill – especially since it so happens Gladys is retired and is suffering from a painful, apparently terminal disease. Actually you aren’t wishing to be “the lottery winner” in reality, not while you’re also in 3D reality. If you were a 6D being, maybe – if not definitely -- you could wish to be the winner and remain without the need to be Gladys.

So, the 6D world is full of private universes of wishes, fears, hopes, fantasies, suppositions, ideas, and so on. In 6D, these are all real, but most of them maybe won’t materialize in 3D or even become real in a dimension lower than 6D. In 6D, if you happen to not like a particular wish you created, all you have to do is wish something different, and hey presto that is what is now real, in 6D. I hope this helps readers to appreciate that the 3D world is in some ways not the outermost, most forgotten province of reality. In certain ways 3D is more real than any dimension above it.

That’s not the whole story. Not by a long chalk. So far I guess you may be getting the picture of the 6D world being full of shell-like things most of which will remain faint wisps. In my next post on this subject I’ll give some explanation of why there’s more to this picture and what I’ve said so far is only one side of the “equation”.

It’s quite a challenge to describe what life in the various higher dimensions is like in terms easy to understand. But I’ll continue doing what I can, when I can. I also have the aim of making it clearer how we do all use our 4D, 5D, 6D and 7D parts even in the course of our ordinary life. If I could ever totally succeed to describe it fully and in a way that people could all understand easily, it would be the most wonderful and mind-blowing story ever. Only, it wouldn’t be a story but reality. Unfortunately, I’m not promising to produce all that for you.

TraineeHuman

20th January 2013, 00:54

True freedom of any sort, including the political and economic, depends – I’d like to suggest -- on restoring and more fully activating our 6D, 7D, and other higher D capabilities.

In the past several thousand years in the West, our 5D capabilities – our conceptualizing abilities – were left stunted for over a thousand years at the time of the Dark Ages. This happened because the Catholic Church destroyed and banned all universities for most of that period, and kept most of the population illiterate in many Western countries. In some ancient Asian civilizations – such as India and China -- there were quite a few centuries between three thousand and over a thousand years ago where the peasants working in the fields used to spend time every day discussing quite advanced philosophical and psychological issues where today people might discuss sports events instead. But it’s only a recent phenomenon from the last several generations that the 5D capabilities – the abilities to critically analyse and conceptualise – have become very common, at least in the West.

To become free of needing to reincarnate in 3D, it also seems necessary to develop and apply various 6D and higher abilities. We know we already have these abilities in an uncontrolled form because of what our subconscious minds can do. OB experience of the 6D and higher worlds is useful because it shows us – if only in glimpses – how the world would feel different once we have activated these abilities more fully and in a more controlled way.

There is an interpretation of quantum theory according to which all possible universes, all possible states of affairs, exist somewhere in some 3D world. That’s not quite how I would understand what happens. I don’t believe that every time I make a choice there is a bifurcation of universes and me’s, and one me goes off into the possible universe I didn’t choose while I seem to remain the current me and the universe I was in does forks off in one direction but since I’m still in it I don’t notice that I’ve gone on from a crossroads of universes.

Why don’t I believe this? Firstly, because the way manifestation in “this” 3D universe seems to works is as follows. There’s a kind of stock exchange in the sky, so to speak, with many (6D) intentions, mostly belonging to different individuals, vying against each other. The one which wins is basically the one from the individual who had the strongest intention. The person who had the second strongest intention then has to live with something a little less than what was intended materializing. And so on down the chain.

There is an exception to this in that there are also intentions coming from groups of individuals who manage to be in full agreement. Normally such a group intention will win out over any individual one. Why, then, do we have the banksters and so on where they are? Well, part of the explanation is that they belong to Masonic lodges and so on and so forth and they utilize the power of group intention, while they’ve tried to keep the masses misinformed about realities and divided and distracted and at a lower level of development of consciousness.

I once experienced a situation where I was massively cheated by a very clever individual. I asked my clairvoyant advisor – one of the most accurate of the many clairvoyants I have known – and she said there was nothing I would be able to do about this exploitation, because that individual had a higher level of consciousness/awareness than myself, at least where it counted. Certainly that individual would eventually have to deal with his life-review when he dies. But the ruling elite ultimately can only stay in power by in some way or other trapping very many highly aware/conscious individuals in childhood and keeping them in their ranks.

As far as multiple timelines goes, I do have some OB experiences which seem to show that yes, that kind of bifurcation does occur in some sense. But there seem to be far, far fewer bifurcations than some would like to suggest. In my own case, the ones that I’ve tracked OB usually seem to have been incarnations of the same HS (at some higher D) on completely different 3D or 4D planets. In my experience, you don’t get a bifurcation happening just because you chose coffee instead of mineral water or tea; nor even, perhaps, because you chose to get married to person A instead of person B.

AwakeInADream

20th January 2013, 02:18

Is it possible that a 'Guru' with no power, can obtain power simply from his followers belief that he has supernatural powers?

That what starts out as a bluff can then turn into reality?

The expression 'fake it till you make it' comes to mind...

And in this way, a false religion could be started, and that a Demon could obtain God-like powers from the belief of his followers that he is the 'true' God?

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I think that we should all get together on this thread, and 'intend' something cool into existence.
I've suggested stuff like this before, but nobody takes the idea up.:(

So what do you say? What shall we create?

* Note * We should think of something unusual and unique to lessen the chances of some other group 'un-intending' our intentions, something observable world wide, and easy to start off with. Any suggestions?

TraineeHuman

20th January 2013, 02:36

...

I think that we should all get together on this thread, and 'intend' something cool into existence.
I've suggested stuff like this before, but nobody takes the idea up.:(

So what do you say? What shall we create?

* Note * We should think of something unusual and unique to lessen the chances of some other group 'un-intending' our intentions, something observable world wide, and easy to start off with. Any suggestions?

A group intention that some mainstream journalist or other can find the courage and the psychological strength and a sufficiently strong commitment to doing right even if it affects their career. That's one suggestion. We've already seen things that have happened as a result of Wikileaks and also the whole News Of The World breakthrough. Why not intend more like that? It doesn't need to be too specific -- the 6D world, which is the world of intentions, is formless after all, and therefore very flexible.

I doubt such intention could be "cancelled out" by opposite intentions. That's partly because there's already lots of background noise there that's been intending the opposite for a long time.

But the big reason it can't really be cancelled out has to do with the power of truth. Truth is "asymmetric", in the sense that the more lies a person tells, the more extra lies they have to keep telling to keep the illusion up. Moreover, any journalist knows in their mind what the (real) truth is. Journalists are trained to professionally analyze and research and sniff out what the real truth might be.

AwakeInADream

20th January 2013, 02:42

Agreed!:) A mainstream journalist WILL have the courage to speak some uncomfortable truth to the world!:amen:

Let's keep our eye's peeled on the worlds media!:thumb:

Can we set a time limit on this? Say within 7 days?

EDIT: I BELIEVE! I BELIEVE! I BELIEVE! I BELIEVE! I BELIEVE! I BELIEVE! I BELIEVE! I BELIEVE!

As Captain Jean-Luc Pickard would say 'Make It So!' ;)

TraineeHuman

20th January 2013, 02:50

Agreed!:) A mainstream journalist WILL have the courage to speak some uncomfortable truth to the world!:amen:

Let's keep our eye's peeled on the worlds media!:thumb:

Can we set a time limit on this? Say within 7 days?

Not seven days. Maybe the next six or nine months. You have to give the journalist(s) the space to handle everything in their lives that might be connected, and also to time things in such a way that the truth "accidentally" comes out publicly -- as I believe was the case with The News Of The World.

It would help, though, to have an intention that the news story would be something that would deeply reveal truth regarding some certain area, and that the journalist will find a way to get it on the record in such a way that it's mostly undeniable.

TraineeHuman

20th January 2013, 05:17

Some more about how intentions work. In the long run it’s crazy to direct negative or evil intentions towards anyone else. Let me explain.

Well, first a true story. A number of years ago a journalist decided to interview half a dozen of the black magicians in his country who had a reputation for being the “best”. I don’t remember which country it was, but it was one of the countries where black magic is taken very seriously. It turned out that half a dozen of the “best” black magicians all lived in the one city. When the journalist met them, he was surprised to find that they all were either on crutches or in a wheelchair. Not only that, but they all had other major physical problems, even though some of them had not reached middle age.

The journalist asked each of them why they looked like war veterans. The answer he received from all of them was that it was from curses some of their victims had placed on them in return for their foul deeds.

The moral here is, it’s very foolish to form any intention at all, and all the more foolish to focus one on anyone, unless you add the “clause” that you intend an outcome which is for the highest good of all involved -- which can mean the whole of humanity, or the whole of the planet. Why is this important? If you attempt to create something in 3D or 4D using an intention (which is always 6D), you are in effect creating an entity that has your intention, with its connections to you, as its 6D part, and connected to that there will be certain 4D and 5D parts, and probably 3D effects. If you create a harmful intention, the 3D effects might even be that some targeted individual will get killed, perhaps in a certain way such as a motor accident or a heart attack.

The trouble is, although your harmful intention may materialize and the targeted person even may die, that’s not the end of the story. You may have been more aware and more psychically powerful and more focused than your victim. But once the victim experiences part or all of the intended nasty consequences, he or she will become extremely aware and extremely focused in that particular area. This remains true even if your victim gets killed. So, even though you may be much more generally aware and had no trouble getting the first strike in, your victim now creates an extremely strong counter-intention – and keeps re-creating it all day long, all month long. The 4D and 5D components then quickly lose their ability to connect with the targeted individual. However, they are still connected in 6D to you. It’s now a situation where you are holding a lighted bomb in your hand whose fuse is about to blow, and when you try to throw the bomb at your victim again, it bounces back – or never leaves your hand.

As I've partly tried to explain with regard to multiple timelines and multiple incarnations of one HS, once an entity gets created with sufficient focus and force, it will work hard to keep materialising. And if it's too hard for it to materialise as intended, next in line is the black magician. I've seen it at work. Black or "gray" magicians or astral projectors will send out 5D robotic beings (that have a little awareness and consciousness, but not much) to try to ensure their evil will is done. Sometimes a whole little army of them, like clockwork soldiers. The robots can cause mischief quite effectively in "the first strike", which probably takes the victim by surprise. And then I see the clockwork soldiers turn on their master, sometimes not entirely leaving but working quietly but insidiously for years to undermine him or her.