Are the Palestinian rocket attacks a false flag?

[Selene]

So: Israel claims that Palestine’s rocket attacks on Jerusalem are the reason for their new scorched earth “bomb them back to the Middle Ages/We need to flatten entire neighborhoods” war mode.

But, oddly enough, the Palestinian rockets seem to lack warheads; they do little damage when landing, and certainly not enough damage to justify the all-out obliteration of Palestine and its civilian residents.

False flag, anyone?


JERUSALEM, Nov 18 (Reuters) - Some of the Palestinian rockets fired far into Israel during the Gaza flare-up have lacked powerful warheads because they were stripped down to increase range and spread alarm over a wider population [Selene: But who might benefit most?], Israeli security sources said on Sunday.

"Our assessment is that the prestige of setting off alarms deep in Israel, and being perceived as fighting on, is as important to them now as spilling our blood," said an Israeli official briefed on security cabinet decisions.

The official and two other sources who spoke to Reuters on the matter did not specify how many of the almost 900 rockets and mortars fired since fighting erupted on Wednesday had been deliberately sapped[Selene: By whom?].

So, big bad Israel has to freak out because these pathetic Palestinian rockets can’t do any real damage?

Not probable. Real nations don’t freak out and go to war for what is by any other description a minor skirmish. No. Not. If the “best” Palestinian weaponry can’t really hurt you, why declare this screaming full-out war?

Why, indeed?

Perhaps Mitt lost the “sure thing” for the Zionist agenda, and Mistah Edelson is very, very pissed….. “Plan D” is clearly in effect. We’ll do this with or without you.

Thoughts, anyone?

Cheers,

Selene

[SlickWillie]

It seems everyone is just a puppet in this situation. Are we as humans lost to the few puppeteers? And will we ever gain true freedom and peace again?

[Snookie]

Are there upcoming elections in Israel? If so, this could be a "Wag the Dog" scenario to scare the heck out of the Isralie people so they re-elect Nuttinyahoo.

[GCS1103]

The Qassam rockets that are being launched are not false flags. They originally had a range (the Qassam-1) of up to three miles and the Qassam -2 has a range of up to five miles and can carry more than 20 pounds of explosives. The capabilities of the current launched rockets requires the Israeli Home Front Command to shorten the warning time for areas like Tel Aviv. There are now longer range missiles being shot into Israel and 740 rockets have been fired into that country between November 14- Novemeber 17. For the first time, since the Gulf War, rockets were fired into Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.

We should not forget that, while we may not like the leaders of either side, the people are the ones suffering. "Israel", "Palestine" are just words - Israelis and Palestinians are real people who are all going through hell now.

[Dennis Leahy]

The Qassam rockets that are being launched are not false flags. They originally had a range (the Qassam-1) of up to three miles and the Qassam -2 has a range of up to five miles and can carry more than 20 pounds of explosives. The capabilities of the current launched rockets requires the Israeli Home Front Command to shorten the warning time for areas like Tel Aviv. There are now longer range missiles being shot into Israel and 740 rockets have been fired into that country between November 14- Novemeber 17. For the first time, since the Gulf War, rockets were fired into Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.

We should not forget that, while we may not like the leaders of either side, the people are the ones suffering. "Israel", "Palestine" are just words - Israelis and Palestinians are real people who are all going through hell now.

Where are you getting this information? Especially "740 rockets have been fired into that country between November 14- Novemeber 17." Who made that count?

That sounds like a lot of rockets, unless they have been deliberately miscounted, or perhaps are more like fireworks than what Israel is using.

Do you have an accurate count of how many rockets, missiles, mortars, and bullets that Israel has "retaliated" with? How about white phosphorus bombs?

We do not have to be "politically correct" and say that both sides of the... um, what do we call it? War? How can a massacre be seen as a war? We don't have to pretend that a massacre is a battle between equal and opposing forces, or that both sides have equally valid issues, do we?

Israel (like the US) uses false flags to achieve goals. Let's call it as truthfully as we can. This is a massacre and imperialist land grab. US citizens who are not sound asleep should be able to recognize this for what it is - the US government is the best in the world at the same game.

Of course this is no reflection on the average Israeli citizen - who undoubtedly has been lied to by their government as much as US citizens have been by theirs. And, the average Israeli citizen is probably completely powerless to stop this - just as average US citizens have had no effect whatsoever on even slowing down the US imperialist thrust.

Dennis

[gripreaper]

Israel (like the US) uses false flags to achieve goals. Let's call it as truthfully as we can. This is a massacre and imperialist land grab. US citizens who are not sound asleep should be able to recognize this for what it is - the US government is the best in the world at the same game.

Of course this is no reflection on the average Israeli citizen - who undoubtedly has been lied to by their government as much as US citizens have been by theirs. And, the average Israeli citizen is probably completely powerless to stop this - just as average US citizens have had no effect whatsoever on even slowing down the US imperialist thrust.

Dennis

Bingo. The sooner the global consciousness of all sentient empathic souls on the planet becomes aware that it is the special interests of an elite globalist fascist bloodline of inhuman entities which are manipulating and controlling the world stage, instigating and financing BOTH sides of every conflict, and have been doing so "ad infinitum", the sooner we will be able to put a stop to such acts of genocide and murder.

[GCS1103]

The Qassam rockets that are being launched are not false flags. They originally had a range (the Qassam-1) of up to three miles and the Qassam -2 has a range of up to five miles and can carry more than 20 pounds of explosives. The capabilities of the current launched rockets requires the Israeli Home Front Command to shorten the warning time for areas like Tel Aviv. There are now longer range missiles being shot into Israel and 740 rockets have been fired into that country between November 14- Novemeber 17. For the first time, since the Gulf War, rockets were fired into Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.

We should not forget that, while we may not like the leaders of either side, the people are the ones suffering. "Israel", "Palestine" are just words - Israelis and Palestinians are real people who are all going through hell now.

Where are you getting this information? Especially "740 rockets have been fired into that country between November 14- Novemeber 17." Who made that count?

That sounds like a lot of rockets, unless they have been deliberately miscounted, or perhaps are more like fireworks than what Israel is using.

Do you have an accurate count of how many rockets, missiles, mortars, and bullets that Israel has "retaliated" with? How about white phosphorus bombs?

We do not have to be "politically correct" and say that both sides of the... um, what do we call it? War? How can a massacre be seen as a war? We don't have to pretend that a massacre is a battle between equal and opposing forces, or that both sides have equally valid issues, do we?

Israel (like the US) uses false flags to achieve goals. Let's call it as truthfully as we can. This is a massacre and imperialist land grab. US citizens who are not sound asleep should be able to recognize this for what it is - the US government is the best in the world at the same game.

Of course this is no reflection on the average Israeli citizen - who undoubtedly has been lied to by their government as much as US citizens have been by theirs. And, the average Israeli citizen is probably completely powerless to stop this - just as average US citizens have had no effect whatsoever on even slowing down the US imperialist thrust.

Dennis

Dennis- We all get our information from different sources. You may not like my source, just like I don't like "Veteran's Today", which has a particular slant. You can go to Haaretz and get this information (also with a particular slant.) But to answer your question: my source comes directly from Israel where my relative is in the military on active duty. I'll take her word over any printed material on the internet. I couldn't care less about political correctness. You call it a massacre; I call it self-defense. I've been through this same argument on the forum time and again. We are all entitled to our beliefs and outlooks; I'll respect yours and I would appreciate your respecting mine.

[Spiral]

The reason Hamas has started firing rockets into Israel as an election with an unpopular incumbent is comming up is the same as why Israel supported the creation of Hamas to get rid of Arafat.

Hamas are a bunch of thugs & need a hawkish leader in Israel to maintain support & power, likewise the last thing some one like Nutty-yahoo needs is a world class statesman like Arafat, thugs need thugs on the other side of the fence to justify their own existence, the last thing any of them want is some level headed wise peace maker.

One other thing, if this is a ruse, then its to prepare for war with Iran under a disguise, they have called up 16,000 reservists,& have OK'ed another 91,000, they could be flown out to that big base in the UAE, just south of Abou Dabi right by the port to ferry them straight over the Gulf in no time

[humanalien]

Who's to say that the palestinians even set off a
missile to israel. You have to remember that everything
you are hearng and reading, is coming from MSM.

What if israel sent a missile to their own land and
blamed it on the palestinians.

What if there was never a missile involved at all.

If the palestinian people did send a missile to israel,
israel deserves it. The palestinian people, courtesy of
the israeli government, aren't allowed to import, export
or even leave their land, in search of food and medical
supplies. People can only take so much, before things
start turning violent.

[Dennis Leahy]

Dennis- We all get our information from different sources. You may not like my source, just like I don't like "Veteran's Today", which has a particular slant. You can go to Haaretz and get this information (also with a particular slant.) But to answer your question: my source comes directly from Israel where my relative is in the military on active duty. I'll take her word over any printed material on the internet. I couldn't care less about political correctness. You call it a massacre; I call it self-defense. I've been through this same argument on the forum time and again. We are all entitled to our beliefs and outlooks; I'll respect yours and I would appreciate your respecting mine.I can show you respect and at the same time have no respect for propaganda that has been repeated.

"Beliefs" and "outlooks" may not be factual and may not qualify as news (especially "alternative news.")

One of the things Avalon visitors need is a source of truth - no matter whose face is red (with embarrassment), or brown (from being rubbed in sh!t), or purple (with rage.) Truth, as best we can honestly present it. The mainstream news (I like to call the mainscream news) is reporting this as if the teleprompter's script is being written by AIPAC or the Israeli Foreign Affairs Office. The story told is of an attack by Palestinians. The actual photographic evidence shows Palestinian civilians dead and injured, missiles exploding in Palestine - and with more than a hundred Palestinians dead, not a single Israeli citizen has be even injured.

You have an Israeli relative, in the Israeli military, that tells you a story. You can believe it if you want to, but it is a story. It is probably what she has been told, just as US soldiers who have somehow broken free from the brainwashing of the US military explain in detail how Iraqi and Afghani people were demonized and dehumanized with blatant racism and sociopathic dehumanizing psychology by US commanding officers - until the soldiers could kill with little or no remorse.

I could walk down my street and talk to people, US citizens, and ask them questions about the US, and they would supply what they believe are truthful statements - which could all be proven to be false. I have some family members that I love but I know they are completely biased and ignorant about many, many aspects of reality that are proven facts. I can't just declare that "an American citizen told me [_________________] and so I know it's true." Two of the most effective nations in disseminating propaganda and lies are the USA and Israel. If the US government or the Israeli government (or either country's controlled mass media) says something is "true" it is almost undoubtedly "false."

I suspect that Selene's original post, "Are the Palestinian Rocket Attacks a False Flag?" is correct. I don't know it to be correct, so I didn't state it as fact. A fact is that mainscream news underreports, ignores outright, and distorts a massive amount of what is supposed to be news. It was revealed last year that as much as 80-% of what is read on the news is directly written by government and corporate staff writers. Journalism is dead.

There is a massacre, an underreported/unreported massacre, going on in Palestine. You can choose to believe that it is a heated debate or practice for the Nutcracker Suite or a bunch of uppity Palestinians trying to steal more Israeli land, destroy Israeli fields and orchards, and blockade Israel from getting the necessities of life - if you want to. But there is blood running in the streets of Palestine. The blood of Palestinians.

19369


In case someone has to be from Israel to have credence:

Ariel Sharon's son (ex-military and now a newspaper columnist)

"We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too."Source: http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/flatten-gaza-hiroshima-and-mow-population-israeli-public-figures-urge


Miko Peled Seattle. Oct. 1, 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOaxAckFCuQ
Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOaxAckFCuQ

Dennis

[norman]

It's a good question.

I find the timing to be very suspect.

How 'controllers' can pull it off like this is beyond my comprehension yet, but I feel a strong sense that it's all fitting very snugly into a bigger plan.

I think I heard somewhere that Mossad created Hamas in the first place, so nothing is too far fetched. Dropping a precision kinetic missile into the back seat of a Hamas big player's car is no more unlikely than popping a pistol shot into Lee Harvey Oswald.

[Operator]

This is probably the magician's left hand distracting the audience ... watch the right hand !

[jagman]

Hamas rockets that are fired into Israel are cheap. (made by Iran) alot of these rockets cant even make it out of Gaza
they blow up killing Palestinian's and that's good for Hamas because they can then blame Israel. So the Rocket that was meant to kill a Israeli boy or girl kills a Palestinian boy or girl. I am not saying Israel is innocent in all this because I think
sanctions need to be lifted on Gaza. Hopefully some kind of peace can be reached so no more Israeli or Palestinian's is killed.

[GCS1103]

Dennis-

Perhaps one of the problems with us "conspiracy aficionados" is that we are always looking for a conspiracy in every single action, word spoken, event, etc. We see things with a suspicious eye. False flags, lies behind lies, rabbit holes, etc. Is it just possible that sometimes an action is not a false flag? Do you not think that the goal is to eliminate Israel completely? Has it not been stated over and over again by Hamas, etc.?

Do I think my relative is giving me a false story? Why would she? She's fighting the fight, as you and I sit comfortably at our computers talking about propaganda and posting pictures. For every picture you post of a Palestinian horror, I can post one of an Israeli horror. Your photographic evidence, just like mine, comes from a source of news with an agenda - be it Israeli or Muslim. But here's what's missing in this tit for tat discussion:

These are real people being maimed on both sides. People who want nothing to do with war. We can agree that the leaders on both sides are deplorable. To point a finger at the Israeli people or the Palestinian people is to miss the point. The point is that this "war" would never take place unless there was bloodlust and insanity on both sides. There is no innocence in either camp because the leaders who wage these wars are not innocent. There will always be fighting and misery in this area of the world because to have a divisive Middle East has always been the goal of the elites. There's too much at stake here, in terms of oil and money, to allow peace. We saw what happened to Anwar Sadat when he attempted to bring peace. This is going to play out exactly as they planned, no matter how many pictures we post or how loudly we protest. It is inevitable, unfortunately.

[Dennis Leahy]

Do you not think that the goal is to eliminate Israel completely? Has it not been stated over and over again by Hamas, etc.? What do you think the Pakistanis, Yemenis, Sudanese, Iraqis, Afghanis, etc. say after one of O'Bomber's drones takes out yet another group of civilians? Do you think maybe they hate the US, wish we would all die? I bet they do. You are missing the most obvious thing, right there missing from your words, "Do you not think that the goal is to eliminate Palestine completely?" And which nation could actually do it, with bombs and bulldozers?

Oh wait a second. I called "Palestine" a nation. A Freudian slip, I guess. Everyone knows that the big bully of the UN, the USA, will NOT allow Palestine to be recognized as a State - because it would make the Zionist Israeli government very angry, and probably "force" them to break even more UN resolutions to fulfil their agenda of destroying Palestine.



For every picture you post of a Palestinian horror, I can post one of an Israeli horror.
No, you can't. The ratio, if honest, would be 16:1 (as of something I read today. It was 100:1 in 2008-2009.) Israeli citizens are not being blown away, and neither is Israel.

This is like saying that there was a fight on the playground. One boy threw a punch and the other boy beat him mercilessly, kicking and stomping and punching until the kid had multiple fractures, was toothless, and appeared lifeless in a pool of blood - and then characterizing it as "two boys fighting." Israel has an Army and a Navy and an Air Force, and they are equipped as well as the United States (because we paid for it!) Israel has satellites and reconnaissance drones and fighter jets and laser guided and heat-seeking missiles. Do NOT characterize this as a "war" or a "conflict!" It's not! It is almost entirely one-sided, it is a massacre, it is genocide. The Israeli military is not going after "soldiers" or a "base", they are shooting missiles into a defenseless civilian population, into Palestinian homes.



These are real people being maimed on both sides. People who want nothing to do with war. We can agree that the leaders on both sides are deplorable. To point a finger at the Israeli people or the Palestinian people is to miss the point. ...
DO NOT twist my words! You know damn well I am not "pointing a finger at the Israeli people." I said:



Of course this is no reflection on the average Israeli citizen - who undoubtedly has been lied to by their government as much as US citizens have been by theirs. And, the average Israeli citizen is probably completely powerless to stop this - just as average US citizens have had no effect whatsoever on even slowing down the US imperialist thrust.
There is no innocence in either camp because the leaders who wage these wars are not innocent. There is innocence in civilian homes. Again you inappropriately use the word "war" when this is one nation's military randomly killing civilians in another country - a country WITHOUT a military!



There will always be fighting and misery in this area of the world ...
Is that so? Why, because we have been told over and over and over that this is the way it always has been? That is not true.

Read (at least) "Myth #1" Here: Top Ten Myths about the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict by Jeremy R. Hammond (http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/top-ten-myths-about-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict-by-jeremy-r-hammond/) and maybe a few of the myths exposed here too Top Ten Myths about Israeli Attack on Gaza (http://www.juancole.com/2012/11/top-ten-myths-about-israeli-attack-on-gaza.html).


By the way, I read that some Israeli soldiers are refusing to participate in the genoocidal action against Palestine. I'll see if I can find that article and you can pass it onto your friend in the Israeli military.

Dennis

[gripreaper]

Innocent people are dying. What their religious affiliation is, or the location of their domicile, is irrelevant...

When juxtaposed against the Zionist elite, psychopathic, globalist, genocidal, murderous, self serving, pedophile, inhuman bloodline scumbags who are instigating, financing, and controlling all of the interests, lives, and outcomes of the entire region, for personal gain, and a satanic evil nefarious, centuries old agenda...

Lets stay focused on the perpetrators and shine the light on the true culprits and tell the world we have had enough of their shenanigans and it is time to take them out and send them back to the planet from whence they came and leave us the F'k alone.

[Lettherebelight]

No one is having a go at the Israeli people. As Dennis says, they are largely innocent.

They are however, calling out the Israeli war machine, funded by other nations, particularly the USA government.
Very important to differentiate from the controlled governments and the actual people that are suffering the consequences. It's just a big game of chess to them (the people controlling the governments).

It's very important to keep a cool head, only then will we see clearly what is going on.

[torti]

Wow, this is such a heated topic. I have read this thread and the other one with all the news related articles. And I still see no point in this conflict. I am leaning towards the Palestinian side to be honest, but mostly because I don't believe they are in a fair position to defend themselves. From what I can gather, the gist of it, is basically a racist land grab. What makes me side more-so with the Palestinians, is the religious background of Israel, a state so bent on the religious grounding of the nation, the chosen children of God, and yet, by doing what they are doing, they are contradicting so strongly what the word of God actually says and commands. No land is holy, no land is above any other land, God is not a single place or thing, you cannot symbolize Him through ownership or sacred places, He is everywhere, He is everything. (I only refer to "a" God, and God being a "he" in the context of the Israel belief), and deep down I see this as a religious based war (not that war is a fair description of what is happening).

Is this a false flag? I don't think so, I don't see anything supporting this theory. They may be getting rocketed, even if with underpowered rockets. But by comparison, it is merely a drop in the ocean compared to the retaliation they have shown. I think the numbers are not accurate, whichever source you take them from. I don't think Israel are rocketing themselves, but I do believe they are misinforming their own people to justify further attacks.

If I were Palestinian, and I had access to weapons, even pathetic weapons, I would most certainly fight for my life, and my people. I see this struggle much like our own, we are the little unarmed, undefended nation, we are sanctioned and controlled by forces much larger than us, much stronger and much better financed. We are the ones who are awake, who see the world for what she is, and we see the destruction all about us, and we meet in small groups (such as this), and we make what attempts we can to awaken those around us, and we take on the man. Genocide is being forced on us through vaccines, GMO crops, geo-engineering and the like, the little retaliations we make are but a drop in the ocean. And the retaliations we receive are greatly unjustified.

We are Palestine, and the joint theories we share about our demise, are Israel.

That is how I see it.

How can I not take Palestine's side?

[Hervé]

[...]

I think I heard somewhere that Mossad created Hamas in the first place...



May be that was the sound of some written words...



From another angle:

... and from: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/11/israel-and-the-u-s-created-hamas-hezbollah-and-other-terrorists-via-blowback.html

Israel and the U.S. CREATED Hamas, Hezbollah and Al Qaeda
Posted on November 18, 2012 (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/11/israel-and-the-u-s-created-hamas-hezbollah-and-other-terrorists-via-blowback.html) by WashingtonsBlog (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/author/washingtonsblog)
Creating the Enemies We Now Fight Against

We’ve extensively documented (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/09/sleeping-with-the-devil-how-u-s-and-saudi-backing-of-al-qaeda-led-to-911.html) that the U.S. and Israel created Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups in an attempt to fight other enemies.


Larry Johnson – a counterterrorism official at the U.S. State Department – says (http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2002/06/18/Analysis-Hamas-history-tied-to-Israel/UPI-82721024445587/):
The Israelis are their own worst enemies when it comes to fighting terrorism. They are like a guy who sets fire to his hair and then tries to put it out by hitting it with a hammer. They do more to incite and sustain terrorism than curb it.
As one example, Israel helped create Hamas.
Veteran journalist Robert Dreyfuss (http://www.robertdreyfuss.com/bio.htm) writes:
In the decades before 9/11, hard-core activists and organizations among Muslim fundamentalists on the far right were often viewed as allies for two reasons, because they were seen a fierce anti-communists and because the opposed secular nationalists such as Egypt’s Gamal Abdel Nasser, Iran’s Mohammed Mossadegh.
***
In Syria, the United States, Israel, and Jordan supported the Muslim Brotherhood in a civil war against Syria. And … Israel quietly backed Ahmed Yassin and the Muslim Brotherhood in the West Bank and Gaza, leading to the establishment of Hamas.
See this (http://www.alternet.org/story/116855/america%27s_hidden_role_in_hamas%27s_rise_to_power) and this:
According to former U.S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia Charles Freeman, Shin Bet—the Israeli counter-intelligence and internal security service— knowingly created Hamas (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805076522/centerforcoop-20):
Israel started Hamas. It was a project of Shin Bet, which had a feeling that they could use it to hem in the PLO.
Full article: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/11/israel-and-the-u-s-created-hamas-hezbollah-and-other-terrorists-via-blowback.html

[Hervé]

To reset some frames of references...


Posted by Amzer Zo (here) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=585968#post585968)
[...]

***
In Syria, the United States, Israel, and Jordan supported the Muslim Brotherhood in a civil war against Syria. And … Israel quietly backed Ahmed Yassin and the Muslim Brotherhood in the West Bank and Gaza, leading to the establishment of Hamas.
See this (http://www.alternet.org/story/116855/america%27s_hidden_role_in_hamas%27s_rise_to_power) and this:
According to former U.S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia Charles Freeman, Shin Bet—the Israeli counter-intelligence and internal security service— knowingly created Hamas (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805076522/centerforcoop-20):
Israel started Hamas. It was a project of Shin Bet, which had a feeling that they could use it to hem in the PLO.
Full article: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/...-blowback.html (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/11/israel-and-the-u-s-created-hamas-hezbollah-and-other-terrorists-via-blowback.html)

What can be deduced from those PTBs' favorite strategy of "Divide & Conquer" is that the created "solution" becomes a bigger "problem."

So, one has to look for that "$$ trail"... "Cui bono?"

The first ones to profit from both sides of any conflict are the "arms dealers"... no wars... no sales...

This, then, leads to the financing of these weapons purchases...

Which leads to loans...

Which leads to...

[Hervé]

the problem resides in that some people's frame of reference are un-resettable except by the hypnotist/implanter itself... but even that is not always successful:



Posted by Amzer Zo (here) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=517604#post517604)
[...]

Hypnosis gives the key as to how implanters work out their implants and mind-control the future behaviour of their victims:


The only other time I have personally witnessed what I saw in my son was a time years ago when a friend of mine was hypnotized by her brother in front of me and her boyfriend. Her brother asked me what I would like him to have her do after he woke her up. I wanted to see if she would repeat something that she would considered silly under normal circumstances. I said, have her get up and flush the toilet every time you tug at your collar.

So he gave her the command, then woke her up. He tugged his collar, she got up, went into the bathroom and flushed the toilet, came back and sat down. He tugged his collar again, and she did it again. And again. After three or four times, I finally asked her why she kept getting up to flush the toilet.

First, she just said it needed flushing. She did it again. And again, I asked her why she kept flushing the toilet. Each time I asked her, she would make up some lame reason as to why she had to flush the toilet.

She got more and more annoyed at me for asking, but she did it again and again upon command and could never see that there was anything strange about it.

Her brother hypnotized her once more to release her of the command, but what an amazing thing to have witnessed.

This is what I saw in my son. He could not answer a simple question but only parrot the party line.


[...]

[David Trd1]

I might just chime in and say i have been in touch with a friend of mine who is one of the reservists that just got called up.He just finished his 2 years in the army last april and in the intervening months completely ''woke up''.He doesn`t want to fight and tells me many that he knows in the military are feeling the same.I have been feeding him with news from the Palestinian side as his words ''we only hear of the rocket attacks nothing else''.

Suffice to say that of course the rocket numbers are exaggerated to some extent,its propaganda.Israel is now on a ''war footing''.There is also much more pressure on israel to justify its use of force and therefore to think that the reports would be completely honest and balanced is naivety to the point of foolishness.

To suggest they are completely a false flag may be a stretch(but completely conceivable),but i have no doubt as does my friend that this is an engineered crisis by netanyahu(under orders i imagine) and has been in the works as an option for some months now.

Its cynical,abhorrent and should be called out for what it is,premeditated and murderous.The man is a rothschild lapdog,should anything less be expected.........

[bram]

Israel? False flag attacks? 911 anyone?

[bram]

[QUOTE=GCS1103;585953. Dennis- We all get our information from different sources. You may not like my source, just like I don't like "Veteran's Today", which has a particular slant. You can go to Haaretz and get this information (also with a particular slant.) But to answer your question: my source comes directly from Israel where my relative is in the military on active duty. I'll take her word over any printed material on the internet. I couldn't care less about political correctness. You call it a massacre; I call it self-defense. I've been through this same argument on the forum time and again. We are all entitled to our beliefs and outlooks; I'll respect yours and I would appreciate your respecting mine.[/QUOTE]

Your neice might be a lovely person, I'm sure she is, but taking the word of someone in the Israeli military is hardly an unbiased opinion in this matter......

[GCS1103]

Do you not think that the goal is to eliminate Israel completely? Has it not been stated over and over again by Hamas, etc.? What do you think the Pakistanis, Yemenis, Sudanese, Iraqis, Afghanis, etc. say after one of O'Bomber's drones takes out yet another group of civilians? Do you think maybe they hate the US, wish we would all die? I bet they do. You are missing the most obvious thing, right there missing from your words, "Do you not think that the goal is to eliminate Palestine completely?" And which nation could actually do it, with bombs and bulldozers?

Oh wait a second. I called "Palestine" a nation. A Freudian slip, I guess. Everyone knows that the big bully of the UN, the USA, will NOT allow Palestine to be recognized as a State - because it would make the Zionist Israeli government very angry, and probably "force" them to break even more UN resolutions to fulfil their agenda of destroying Palestine.



For every picture you post of a Palestinian horror, I can post one of an Israeli horror.
No, you can't. The ratio, if honest, would be 16:1 (as of something I read today. It was 100:1 in 2008-2009.) Israeli citizens are not being blown away, and neither is Israel.

This is like saying that there was a fight on the playground. One boy threw a punch and the other boy beat him mercilessly, kicking and stomping and punching until the kid had multiple fractures, was toothless, and appeared lifeless in a pool of blood - and then characterizing it as "two boys fighting." Israel has an Army and a Navy and an Air Force, and they are equipped as well as the United States (because we paid for it!) Israel has satellites and reconnaissance drones and fighter jets and laser guided and heat-seeking missiles. Do NOT characterize this as a "war" or a "conflict!" It's not! It is almost entirely one-sided, it is a massacre, it is genocide. The Israeli military is not going after "soldiers" or a "base", they are shooting missiles into a defenseless civilian population, into Palestinian homes.



These are real people being maimed on both sides. People who want nothing to do with war. We can agree that the leaders on both sides are deplorable. To point a finger at the Israeli people or the Palestinian people is to miss the point. ...
DO NOT twist my words! You know damn well I am not "pointing a finger at the Israeli people." I said:



Of course this is no reflection on the average Israeli citizen - who undoubtedly has been lied to by their government as much as US citizens have been by theirs. And, the average Israeli citizen is probably completely powerless to stop this - just as average US citizens have had no effect whatsoever on even slowing down the US imperialist thrust.
There is no innocence in either camp because the leaders who wage these wars are not innocent. There is innocence in civilian homes. Again you inappropriately use the word "war" when this is one nation's military randomly killing civilians in another country - a country WITHOUT a military!



There will always be fighting and misery in this area of the world ...
Is that so? Why, because we have been told over and over and over that this is the way it always has been? That is not true.

Read (at least) "Myth #1" Here: Top Ten Myths about the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict by Jeremy R. Hammond (http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/top-ten-myths-about-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict-by-jeremy-r-hammond/) and maybe a few of the myths exposed here too Top Ten Myths about Israeli Attack on Gaza (http://www.juancole.com/2012/11/top-ten-myths-about-israeli-attack-on-gaza.html).


By the way, I read that some Israeli soldiers are refusing to participate in the genoocidal action against Palestine. I'll see if I can find that article and you can pass it onto your friend in the Israeli military.

Dennis

I see how strongly you feel, just as I do, so there is no point here. Perhaps if you take a trip over to Israel and witness with your own eyes what is happening without any outside influences, you may just get a more balanced picture. That's what I plan to do. Then we can draw conclusions from our own experiences and not our prejudices. Are you willing to do that?

[Akasha]

I see how strongly you feel, just as I do, so there is no point here. Perhaps if you take a trip over to Israel and witness with your own eyes what is happening without any outside influences, you may just get a more balanced picture. That's what I plan to do. Then we can draw conclusions from our own experiences and not our prejudices. Are you willing to do that?

I would venture to say that there is a point. The above mentioned rapport between you and Dennis has already raised awareness of the issue and through both your willingness to engage each other will hopefully continue to do so.

Are you planning to visit Gaza or the West Bank during your trip?

[GCS1103]

I see how strongly you feel, just as I do, so there is no point here. Perhaps if you take a trip over to Israel and witness with your own eyes what is happening without any outside influences, you may just get a more balanced picture. That's what I plan to do. Then we can draw conclusions from our own experiences and not our prejudices. Are you willing to do that?

I would venture to say that there is a point. The above mentioned rapport between you and Dennis has already raised awareness of the issue and through both your willingness to engage each other will hopefully continue to do so.

Are you planning to visit Gaza or the West Bank during your trip?

Absolutely. My intention is to see all sides with my own eyes. I am finding it harder and harder to believe what I read in the media and I think the best way to remove any prejudices I have is to see Israel for myself. One thing that I am convinced of is that if you remove the leaders of both groups who thrive on war and drama, the people would have very few problems with each other.

I had an interesting experience in my home last year when a Palestinian (he is a builder) and an Israeli (he bought the house from this builder) came to my home, down the street from where the new house was being constructed, and asked if they could come in to look at what I had done inside. They came in for about an hour and we talked a lot about construction, building, design, etc. I thought they were related because they looked very similar to each other and their mannerisms and overall personalities were identical. I could tell from their accents that they were from Israel, and when I asked if they were Israeli only one of them said yes. The builder told me he was Palestinian. I guess I was staring at them and he said to me "Here we are brothers". So I asked him why they aren't brothers in Israel and he said "Because we're not allowed to be." I found that very telling. They obviously liked each other and they seemed so natural with one another in that they shared so many characteristics. What or who would not allow them to be brothers in Israel? My answer was, the leaders of each side. The people that profit off the division and war. So I made the decision to visit that country and see, for myself, what it happening there.

[PathWalker]

I believe the conflict is constantly maintained and controlled BTPT.

1. I find it very odd that 30 min after Iron-Dome battery started to operate around Tel-Aviv (in the 3 day of recent conflict). A long range Fjar missile was launched on Tel-Aviv.
2. Today Palestinians where killed on the Gaza fences. And they were warned, it was not an accident. http://www.chron.com/news/world/article/Gaza-crowds-surge-at-Israel-border-fence-1-dead-4060776.php

Something is pumping this conflict relentlessly.
I am sure this is a diversion, any ideas what are the real issues TPTB are hiding.