The conceptual mind.

[Tony]

The conceptual mind, in looking, obscures seeing.

The science of mind is very precise.
The science of 'being', is very very precise.
Confusion arises when the mind looks for what 'is', when what 'is' is already seeing!

This is a very subtle business, and the conceptual mind (our thinking bit, instead our seeing bit) keeps us in a mental prison, and we do it to ourselves. We are so busy collecting information that we have little time for genuine experience. We get so caught up in the thoughts of others, that we do not see how we are, for ourselves.

Simply put, the mind has thoughts.
'You' (awareness) see these thoughts.

What happens is we think we have thoughts, therefore we think these thoughts are us, and that is the mistake! This body-mind set up is like a computer, a bio-computer that we have entered. It has a physical hard drive and housing, and software. “Stuff” is put onto this software, and it is now 'my' computer.

But this computer does not work without our awareness. The actual 'stuff' on the computer becomes karma, and so we keep going through the same pieces of software getting the same results.
Just look at your 'history'!

Clearing history is exhausting karma: this is done through not 're'-acting. Not 're'-acting is achieved through stillness of mind, and spontaneous presence...this inspires = inspiration.

(This is not dogma or theory - one merely has to see it this, happening!)




Tony

[Jules]

Is this why spiritual ones state that meditating to the point where the mind focuses on nothing is a very good point in time.

[markpierre]

Hopefully everyone's drifted off with the beauty and the birds, and can't be bothered disengaging from reality enough to engage in a discussion.

I just tried it. It's not worth it.

Good post though Tony.

[Tony]

Hopefully everyone's drifted off with the beauty and the birds, and can't be bothered disengaging from reality enough to engage in a discussion.

I just tried it. It's not worth it.

Good post though Tony.





Morning Mark,


......everybody?

[markpierre]

I know. I said I just tried it. I speak from experience.

It's 9:16 PM. Waddaya talking about?

[Tony]

Dear OP

It seems that we interfere - try to modify - our natural function of being. Why we do this, I have no idea! When I was young, I used to have fun...but I was told off so many times that I just learned to toe the line and suffer like everyone else...oi, do we suffer!

And it's really that simple. We just got too sophisticated.

There is no problem with the ancient teachings, because they only explain and illustrate the discovery of truth. However, people in “spiritual set-ups” do acquire a “way of being” which is steers away from just being ordinary. This is very off-putting. However, we all have to go through this “wooden” stage: as in any activity, one tries to acquire all the proper tools, but eventually one finds that it's not the tools themselves that are important – it's how they are used. I'm an artist, and I spent years researching the right paint, the right oils, the right brushes, the right varnishes, the right teachers – all I lacked was confidence. Of course, good quality tools are wonderful, but it is the inspiration and confidence that merely happen as if you don't actually 'do' anything.

There are two aspects: the first is one's personal understanding, which needs no doing, but when it comes to dealing with the world and recognising needs, the second aspect of creativity just manifests.

To put it simply, there is being and there is the expression of being, which is love.
The joy of essence is essence love.

All the best
Tony

[greybeard]

mental scotoma a figurative blind spot in a person's psychological awareness, the person being unable to gain insight into and to understand their mental problems; lack of insight.

The problem is that through conditioning etc we have mental blind spots--- we do not even see/hear anything that conflicts with our held point of view.
Is the glass half full or half empty?
One with poor self image/victim mentality does not even see what has been done for them--- they only notice negative events in their life or place agenda on well wishers.
It can be very subtle but during the day a mass of evidence can be found to support any view point negative or positive.

Chris

[Tony]

Is this why spiritual ones state that meditating to the point where the mind focuses on nothing is a very good point in time.

Dear Jules

If we are going to be precise about this state of no-thing-ness which is beyond body and mind, then we have to accept that there is no such thing as time. It is sometimes referred to as “timeless time” - the fourth time.

Time is only relevant in relation to things that have a beginning, a middle and an end – they have a period of existence. Pure being – whatever you may want to call it – is timeless. Beyond the limitations of time.

Tony

¤=[Post Update]=¤


mental scotoma a figurative blind spot in a person's psychological awareness, the person being unable to gain insight into and to understand their mental problems; lack of insight.

The problem is that through conditioning etc we have mental blind spots--- we do not even see/hear anything that conflicts with our held point of view.
Is the glass half full or half empty?
One with poor self image/victim mentality does not even see what has been done for them--- they only notice negative events in their life or place agenda on well wishers.
It can be very subtle but during the day a mass of evidence can be found to support any view point negative or positive.

Chris

Dear Chris

This is so, so important!

And, come to think of it, you're describing my entire family :p!

Tony

[bram]

;)
mental scotoma a figurative blind spot in a person's psychological awareness, the person being unable to gain insight into and to understand their mental problems; lack of insight.

Chris

Chris, it's quite judgemental though, isn't it? After all, we might be assessing said person through our own mental scotoma for all we know (planks and eyes etc). In fact, we are all equally correct and equally wrong because we are all viewing everything through our dualistic, conditioned and ego-domnated minds, until we reach the point where we are not......just a thought;)

Love, bram

[markpierre]

mental scotoma a figurative blind spot in a person's psychological awareness, the person being unable to gain insight into and to understand their mental problems; lack of insight.

The problem is that through conditioning etc we have mental blind spots--- we do not even see/hear anything that conflicts with our held point of view.
Is the glass half full or half empty?
One with poor self image/victim mentality does not even see what has been done for them--- they only notice negative events in their life or place agenda on well wishers.
It can be very subtle but during the day a mass of evidence can be found to support any view point negative or positive.

Chris

That's really true. And then the evidence states to me that moments out of that mold are spontaneous and natural, and don't engage
or even acknowledge that frame of mind at all.
That conditioned mind disappears into the nothingness that it is. I wouldn't call them blind spots, because there's nothing there to see.
But they've superimposed something else there to see or believe or engage with, and associate with it as though it were real.

I get your point, but not really sure how it applies. Knowing how mind works isn't quite the same as changing it, but no change occurs on the
level of conscious awareness. Conscious awareness only knows of change after the fact.
'Awareness' as an idea is a bit tricky. You may believe that you're 'aware' and that promotes change. But what was it that you became aware of,
that was any different than what it was when you weren't aware of it? And how does it matter? A mind that suffers, needs suffering in order to be that mind.
So it conjures suffering. And if the suffering is unreal, then so is the mind that conjures it. And if it stops suffering, it isn't that mind, it's another.
Does that mind, even through changes seemingly for the better, ever engage with reality at all?

[Tony]

Conceptual mind is something we are stuck with, it's full of the residue from our past. It is only emptied when the hard drive is finished with, and we are no long keep putting more 'stuff' on! So when something happens, this will trigger a familiar response in our mind, but one does not have to re-act on it.

The only thing that changes is the decrease in reaction, therefore a decrease in fixed ideas, therefore the obscuring layers fall away, allowing more 'light' to shine.

We actually have to do 'nothing'!


"Truth is true, and nothing else is true."
Jesus said it all!

[markpierre]

Conceptual mind is something we are stuck with, it's full of the residue from our past. It is only emptied when the hard drive is finished with, and we are no long keep putting more 'stuff' on! So when something happens, this will trigger a familiar response in our mind, but one does not have to re-act on it.

The only thing that changes is the decrease in reaction, therefore a decrease in fixed ideas, therefore the obscuring layers fall away, allowing more 'light' to shine.

We actually have to do 'nothing'!


"Truth is true, and nothing else is true."
Jesus said it all!

Thanks Tony, that's good. 'Nothing' is about all I can manage. Serious.

But to clarify for the conditioned mind that chronically misinterprets it as meaning off the hook, that 'do nothing' mentioned by Jesus is an active doing.
Actively withholding judgement, actively hesitating before reacting. One does not have to react, and looking for a more desirable way to react isn't the answer.
But in order to not react, one has to learn how not to, and practice it.

I think it's a bit of a trick really, and that moment of hesitation becomes more compelling, and more enduring.

[Tony]

One of the problems we all have is not trusting ourselves.

In the mind there are coarse circling thoughts, of me and mine. However in those quieter moments, there are subtler thoughts/feelings/inspirations.
One might have the old "Let's bash 'em" feeling...but if one can let that drop, a more refined approach appears, a more poetic approach, less literal.

So from wanting to 'bash' someone's mind, one merely meets it. Here we need to trust, and we do not always get it right! Still there is always another day.

What is strange is that in the Hindu tradition they have 'Manas', the Greeks had Hermes, the Romans had Mercury... these are names for the messenger in the mind. It's a sort of facility we have. One has a impulse to write (there is usually an abstract feeling), and this messenger seems to scan the mind for the words. If the words are not quite right, one can ask for a better term.


A little weird but interesting.;)

[greybeard]

mental scotoma a figurative blind spot in a person's psychological awareness, the person being unable to gain insight into and to understand their mental problems; lack of insight.

The problem is that through conditioning etc we have mental blind spots--- we do not even see/hear anything that conflicts with our held point of view.
Is the glass half full or half empty?
One with poor self image/victim mentality does not even see what has been done for them--- they only notice negative events in their life or place agenda on well wishers.
It can be very subtle but during the day a mass of evidence can be found to support any view point negative or positive.

Chris

That's really true. And then the evidence states to me that moments out of that mold are spontaneous and natural, and don't engage
or even acknowledge that frame of mind at all.
That conditioned mind disappears into the nothingness that it is. I wouldn't call them blind spots, because there's nothing there to see.
But they've superimposed something else there to see or believe or engage with, and associate with it as though it were real.

I get your point, but not really sure how it applies. Knowing how mind works isn't quite the same as changing it, but no change occurs on the
level of conscious awareness. Conscious awareness only knows of change after the fact.
'Awareness' as an idea is a bit tricky. You may believe that you're 'aware' and that promotes change. But what was it that you became aware of,
that was any different than what it was when you weren't aware of it? And how does it matter? A mind that suffers, needs suffering in order to be that mind.
So it conjures suffering. And if the suffering is unreal, then so is the mind that conjures it. And if it stops suffering, it isn't that mind, it's another.
Does that mind, even through changes seemingly for the better, ever engage with reality at all?

Thats true Mark
The mind is incapable of seeing reality as everything goes through the filter of ego before we are even aware of what has happened.
Its sorted, evaluated, judged, compared against past events even remotely similar ones and future hopes/aspirations.
The unenlightened view leads sooner or later to misery. That's the foundation of the Buddha's teaching. ie "No self no problem"

The challenge with relativity is that in this current seeming duality it appears that changing the way the mind views things has a certain value.
In reality there is no time for anything to happen. Tell that to the mind--- It all seems so very real.
Chris

[Tony]

Know your own mind, be aware of infiltration.




Edward Bernays (1928) stated:

If we understand the mechanism and motives of the group mind, it is now possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will without them knowing it…

As civilization becomes more complex and as the need for invisible government has been increasingly demonstrated, the technical means have been invented and developed by which public opinion may be regimented. With printing press and newspaper, the telephone, telegraph, radio and airplanes, ideas can be spread rapidly, and even instantaneously, across the whole of America. The conscious and intelligent manipulation of organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in a democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government, which is the true ruling power in our country.

Bernays bragged that these new powers of media propaganda would allow elites far better control of the masses:

We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. Whatever attitude one chooses to take toward this condition, it is remains a fact that in almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons, a trifling fraction of our hundred and twenty million, who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind, who harness old social forces and contrive new ways to bind and guide the world.

Tavistock’s pioneering work in the “science” of mass mind control also helped established it as the world center of “foundation ideology.” Thus, Tavistock “scientists” helped the Rockefellers and other extremely wealthy American “robber barons” design their tax-exempt foundations in such a way that they could simultaneously preserve their vast fortunes and mold American and British societies through the new techniques of “social engineering” (aka “societry”). In turn, the CIA, in particular, has been instrumental in ensuring that the Tavistock-generated foundation ideologies are translated into policy implementation by the executive, the legislative, and judicial branches of the United States government.

[Tony]

Basically, the Frankfurt School believed that as long as an individual had the belief - or even the hope of belief - that his divine gift of reason could solve the problems facing society, then that society would never reach the state of hopelessness and alienation that they considered necessary to provoke socialist revolution. Their task, therefore, was as swiftly as possible to undermine the Judeo-Christian legacy. To do this they called for the most negative destructive criticism possible of every sphere of life which would be designed to de-stabilize society and bring down what they saw as the ‘oppressive’ order. Their policies, they hoped, would spread like a virus—‘continuing the work of the Western Marxists by other means’ as one of their members noted.

To further the advance of their ‘quiet’ cultural revolution - but giving us no ideas about their plans for the future - the School recommended (among other things):

1. The creation of racism offences.
2. Continual change to create confusion
3. The teaching of sex and homosexuality to children
4. The undermining of schools’ and teachers’ authority
5. Huge immigration to destroy identity.
6. The promotion of excessive drinking
7. Emptying of churches
8. An unreliable legal system with bias against victims of crime
9. Dependency on the state or state benefits
10. Control and dumbing down of media
11. Encouraging the breakdown of the family

One of the main ideas of the Frankfurt School was to exploit Freud’s idea of ‘pansexualism’ - the search for pleasure, the exploitation of the differences between the sexes, the overthrowing of traditional relationships between men and women. To further their aims they would:

• attack the authority of the father, deny the specific roles of father and mother, and wrest away from families their rights as primary educators of their children.
• abolish differences in the education of boys and girls
• abolish all forms of male dominance - hence the presence of women in the armed forces
• declare women to be an ‘oppressed class’ and men as ‘oppressors’

Munzenberg summed up the Frankfurt School’s long-term operation thus: ‘We will make the West so corrupt that it stinks.'

The School believed there were two types of revolution: (a) political and (b) cultural. Cultural revolution demolishes from within. ‘Modern forms of subjection are marked by mildness’. They saw it as a long-term project and kept their sights clearly focused on the family, education, media, sex and popular culture.

[Tony]

In 1931, Committee of 300 member Bertrand Russell outlined his vision of that the world would be governed by a “scientific dictatorship” in his essay, “The Scientific Outlook”.

The society of experts which I am imagining will embrace all eminent men of science except a few wrong-headed and anarchical cranks. It will possess the sole up-to-date armaments and will be the repository of all new secrets in the art of war. There will, therefore, be no more war since resistance by the unscientific will be doomed to obvious failure. The society of experts will control propaganda and education. It will teach loyalty to the world government and make nationalism high treason. The government, being an oligarchy, will instill submissiveness into the great bulk of the population, confining initiative and the habit of command to its own members. It is possible that it may invent ingenious ways of concealing its own power, leaving the forms of democracy intact, and allowing the plutocrats to imagine that they are cleverly controlling these forms. Gradually, however, as the pluocrats become stupid through laziness, they will lose their wealth; it will pass more and more into public ownership and be controlled by the government of experts.

Thus, whatever the outward forms may be, all real power will come to be concentrated in the hands of those who understand the art of scientific manipulation.

[Tony]

Going beyond the conceptual mind, takes more than you think! This is still quoting from a source I have which is 55 pages long.


To bring the picture up to date, add the murder of Princess Diana, Columbine, the blowing of the levees in New Orleans, the burning of Black churches, and the bird flu scare. What we have is an ongoing secret war by the central bankers against society, a drumbeat of psychological torture designed to keep society off balance or zoned out.

The most significant thing about our life is that we are victims of elite mind control. We have been trained to be apathetic, trivia-minded and self absorbed

[Tony]

We are dealing here with some pretty sophisticated thinking, but never wise!



What specific methods do Tavistock “behavioral scientists” use to control the American public mind? Dr. Fred Emery, senior “behavioral scientist” at Tavistock, reveals the Tavistock methodology as he describes the three phases of “social environmental turbulence” that are contrived and implemented by Tavistock’s social engineers:

Large population groups manifest the following symptoms when subjected to conditions of violent social changes, stress, and turbulence which can be divided into well-defined categories.
The three phases of “maladaptive response” to the contrived chaotic situations imposed by the invisible (Tavistock) social engineers are:

1) superficiality, in which the threatened population adopts shallow sloganeering in place of ideals,
2) fragmentation and panic, in which “social cohesion” falls apart,
3) passive maladaption, in which victims take “fantasy trips of internal migration, introspection and obsession with self.” This last phase is referred to as disassociation and self-realization.

[Tony]

Perhaps we need to know our enemy. There are two, our conceptual mind and those parasites in it.

[skippy]

Then there is the collective conceptual mind as a logical byproduct. Below Kubrick's reset at the end of 2001. Some good thinking Tony :p


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuEN5TjYRCE

[Tony]

There is another way of looking at this.

For the conceptual mind to function their must be a object for the subject to ponder on.
This subject-object relationship is duality, meaning our attention is split...or distracted.

So when thought or ideas are place into the mind that is a sort of hypnosis, or neuro linguistic programming.
Until we can be free of objects in the mind (or even notice them) we will never be free!

Mind how you go!

[Tony]

I assume that “those that think they have the power” scan the internet for key words, and Tavistock must be one of them. I have no proof that they are behind the disfunction in society, or why they should want to. However the world is in a mess, and this can only be down to man's stupidity, it is being engineered that way, or both. My preference is both!

We cannot really know who is behind the troubles in the world, but we can see the results, manipulation of everything- food, water, education, health, media, money, politics, wars, more wars, and a lot of death.

The question is why?

Global control?.... That seems a bit mundane.
Wealth?.... All you will do is fill your minds with more objects.
Eternal life?.... Well, we all have that already.
All three?.... Now that is just plain greedy, and will accrue much bad karma.
You want to cause suffering?.... If so, then there is no end to your own suffering.
You are made to do it?.... Then you have to review your values, and the sooner the better.


I meet many ordinary people, they 'know' things are not right, but what they also reveal is a good heart. This is the beauty of ordinary sentient beings.

These dark lords cannot reveal themselves as they will show their weakness, that their illusory world is just one of make believe. To keep the mystery going they have to keep their cards close to their chest!

We actually have the power to be free of all this silliness, and it is in knowing the conceptual mind.



“The more the darkness reveals itself, the more the light will shine.”

[Tony]

Everything is about self destruction.
This mean realising our true nature, freeing one's true self from mental constructs,
or it could mean, "As you sow, so you reap."
4tuXPFZVtck








Tony

[buckminster fuller]

Perhaps we need to know our enemy. There are two, our conceptual mind and those parasites in it.

That might be going a bit far... What you call the conceptual mind has kept us alive long enough to evolve to man, providing us with the cognitive functions that allow us to create, and to solve real life problems. Animals have it, humans have it, I guess plants have it too in some ways since their perception abilities are quite high. Experiencing is what I believe we're here for, not to hide in a state of fear. In times of changes as this one seems to be about, individuals, societies are given the opportunity to invent, create, and build new paradigms. Doing nothing is for meditation states, and I don't think it can be seen as a way to live one's life, or it is called seclusion, and is a purely monastic, out of the world way of living. It agrees with the fact that we hold no responsibility toward future generations in terms of how the world will be able to welcome them.

[Tony]

Perhaps we need to know our enemy. There are two, our conceptual mind and those parasites in it.

That might be going a bit far... What you call the conceptual mind has kept us alive long enough to evolve to man, providing us with the cognitive functions that allow us to create, and to solve real life problems. Animals have it, humans have it, I guess plants have it too in some ways since their perception abilities are quite high. Experiencing is what I believe we're here for, not to hide in a state of fear. In times of changes as this one seems to be about, individuals, societies are given the opportunity to invent, create, and build new paradigms. Doing nothing is for meditation states, and I don't think it can be seen as a way to live one's life, or it is called seclusion, and is a purely monastic, out of the world way of living. It agrees with the fact that we hold no responsibility toward future generations in terms of how the world will be able to welcome them.


Meditation does not mean one removes oneself from life. If one wants to stay in the same human existence, that is one's free choice...or is it?

[Tony]

Looking inside the mind of a psychopath with no empathy.


mG66QFnufIQ

[greybeard]

Ramesh Balsekar who translated for Nasargadatta before he too entered the state called enlightenment explained this situation well.
There is the working mind which takes care of everything that we do habitually and learns new habits---it is not emotional, lives in the moment and is practical.
It is extremely efficient focused and gets the job done.
The other mind whatever you want to call it is ego driven and therefore all that goes with that.

Every explanation is of course a concept--- Ramesh said that everything that a Guru tells you is a concept.

Chris

[buckminster fuller]

We actually have the power to be free of all this silliness, and it is in knowing the conceptual mind.



Knowing the conceptual mind is indeed what we still have to achieve as a specie, but I wouldn't describe it as an enemy. It is a tool, not an illness or the symptoms of an illness. It is in fact the very tool that can set us free from the controllers, because it is the one that can make realization happen.

[Tony]

We actually have the power to be free of all this silliness, and it is in knowing the conceptual mind.



Knowing the conceptual mind is indeed what we still have to achieve as a specie, but I wouldn't describe it as an enemy. It is a tool, not an illness or the symptoms of an illness. It is in fact the very tool that can set us free from the controllers, because it is the one that can make realization happen.

Agreed........!

[Chester]

The conceptual mind, in looking, obscures seeing.

The science of mind is very precise.
The science of 'being', is very very precise.
Confusion arises when the mind looks for what 'is', when what 'is' is already seeing!

This is a very subtle business, and the conceptual mind (our thinking bit, instead our seeing bit) keeps us in a mental prison, and we do it to ourselves. We are so busy collecting information that we have little time for genuine experience. We get so caught up in the thoughts of others, that we do not see how we are, for ourselves.

Simply put, the mind has thoughts.
'You' (awareness) see these thoughts.

What happens is we think we have thoughts, therefore we think these thoughts are us, and that is the mistake! This body-mind set up is like a computer, a bio-computer that we have entered. It has a physical hard drive and housing, and software. “Stuff” is put onto this software, and it is now 'my' computer.

But this computer does not work without our awareness. The actual 'stuff' on the computer becomes karma, and so we keep going through the same pieces of software getting the same results.
Just look at your 'history'!

Clearing history is exhausting karma: this is done through not 're'-acting. Not 're'-acting is achieved through stillness of mind, and spontaneous presence...this inspires = inspiration.

(This is not dogma or theory - one merely has to see it this, happening!)




Tony

I found "mind" is simply a tool and is about everything but the NOW, the present moment... the place of no mind, which I call BIG Mind.

"mind" is reflection of the past and projection of the future. When I allow myself to be "mindless" I find myself fully Mindful...

but that's just my experience translated into words that came from my "mind" so has no meaning or value or validity...

mental masturbation so to speak - justone

[Tony]

The conceptual mind, in looking, obscures seeing.

The science of mind is very precise.
The science of 'being', is very very precise.
Confusion arises when the mind looks for what 'is', when what 'is' is already seeing!






This is a very subtle business, and the conceptual mind (our thinking bit, instead our seeing bit) keeps us in a mental prison, and we do it to ourselves. We are so busy collecting information that we have little time for genuine experience. We get so caught up in the thoughts of others, that we do not see how we are, for ourselves.

Simply put, the mind has thoughts.
'You' (awareness) see these thoughts.

What happens is we think we have thoughts, therefore we think these thoughts are us, and that is the mistake! This body-mind set up is like a computer, a bio-computer that we have entered. It has a physical hard drive and housing, and software. “Stuff” is put onto this software, and it is now 'my' computer.

But this computer does not work without our awareness. The actual 'stuff' on the computer becomes karma, and so we keep going through the same pieces of software getting the same results.
Just look at your 'history'!

Clearing history is exhausting karma: this is done through not 're'-acting. Not 're'-acting is achieved through stillness of mind, and spontaneous presence...this inspires = inspiration.

(This is not dogma or theory - one merely has to see it this, happening!)




Tony

I found "mind" is simply a tool and is about everything but the NOW, the present moment... the place of no mind, which I call BIG Mind.

"mind" is reflection of the past and projection of the future. When I allow myself to be "mindless" I find myself fully Mindful...

but that's just my experience translated into words that came from my "mind" so has no meaning or value or validity...

mental masturbation so to speak - justone






Agreed............!

[Tony]

If we talk about everyday run of the mill existence, then our mind will be precious to us, it's what make me, ME!

But when we look into the finer aspects of existence we have to stop being "tinkling bells and put away childish ideas".
This world will never change as long as people hang onto their precious minds and what they think.
There is no cavalry coming, they are already here!
When we quieten the chattering mind, positive inspiration abounds.

At the level of Essence the mind is not needed.
It is only needed in order to express itself to others.

There is relative truth and there is absolute truth...if we mix them up we will get confused.
There is relative truth and there is absolute truth...if we see them as inseparable we get the total picture.

[Chester]

If we talk about everyday run of the mill existence, then our mind will be precious to us, it's what make me, ME!

But when we look into the finer aspects of existence we have to stop being "tinkling bells and put away childish ideas".
This world will never change as long as people hang onto their precious minds and what they think.
There is no cavalry coming, they are already here!
When we quieten the chattering mind, positive inspiration abounds.

At the level of Essence the mind is not needed.
It is only needed in order to express itself to others.

There is relative truth and there is absolute truth...if we mix them up we will get confused.
There is relative truth and there is absolute truth...if we see them as inseparable we get the total picture.

Agreed....! - There is hope for humanity! Oooops that was a thought. Great Thread pie'n'eal.

the video in this post is along these same lines...

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?39421-The-earth-is-alive&p=587119&viewfull=1#post587119

[Tony]

We have much work to do. Maybe start about 9.30 minutes it's about how we can change, and play our part.

If happiness is an inner state, influenced by external conditions but not dependent on them, how can we achieve it? Ricard will examine the inner and outer factors that increase or diminish our sense of well-being, dissect the underlying mechanisms of happiness, and lead us to a way of looking at the mind itself based on his book, Happiness: A Guide to Life's Most Important Skill and from the research in neuroscience on the effect of mind-training on the brain.

Speaker Bio: Matthieu Ricard, a gifted scientist turned Buddhist monk, is a best selling author, translator, and photographer. He has lived and studied in the Himalayas for the last 35 years...


L_30JzRGDHI

[Tony]

If we talk about everyday run of the mill existence, then our mind will be precious to us, it's what make me, ME!

But when we look into the finer aspects of existence we have to stop being "tinkling bells and put away childish ideas".
This world will never change as long as people hang onto their precious minds and what they think.
There is no cavalry coming, they are already here!
When we quieten the chattering mind, positive inspiration abounds.

At the level of Essence the mind is not needed.
It is only needed in order to express itself to others.

There is relative truth and there is absolute truth...if we mix them up we will get confused.
There is relative truth and there is absolute truth...if we see them as inseparable we get the total picture.

Agreed....! - There is hope for humanity! Oooops that was a thought. Great Thread pie'n'eal.

the video in this post is along these same lines...

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?39421-The-earth-is-alive&p=587119&viewfull=1#post587119



Humanity is made up of sentient beings. There are countless sentient beings throughout the universes, and they are not all in human form. Yes, there is hope, or potential for every sentient being....to stop being just sentient. ;)

[Tony]

We need all 'our' tools!

3nwwKbM_vJc

[skippy]

We actually have the power to be free of all this silliness, and it is in knowing the conceptual mind.



Knowing the conceptual mind is indeed what we still have to achieve as a specie, but I wouldn't describe it as an enemy. It is a tool, not an illness or the symptoms of an illness. It is in fact the very tool that can set us free from the controllers, because it is the one that can make realization happen.


Howdy Buckminster! :yo: I agree that the mind is a necessary tool to design, communicate, and share, and indeed, it might turn out key to help us out of our mess.

Like this thread. There are some interesting pointers for further exploration and meditation. Here another one taken from a thread here at Avalon:

The 'Wetiko': mind virus or psychic parasite? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?42499-Interview-Paul-Levy-Wetiko-the-Dreaming&p=451432&highlight=wetiko#post451432)


Interesting discussion here between Paul Levy and Henrik Palmgren of Red Ice Radio.They discuss Paul's new book 'Wetiko' and touch on theme's such as that humans are infected by a type of mind virus or psychic parasite that is part of a larger field that surrounds us and effects all of us to some extent.Wetiko might be our enemy and one of the reasons why the world is the way it is but it might also be a catalyst that helps us to awaken.Interesting interview
http://rediceradio.net/radio/2012/RIR-120308-plevy-hr1.mp3

[Chester]

Perhaps we need to know our enemy. There are two, our conceptual mind and those parasites in it.

so get rid of the parasites and at all levels of your being which includes the physical... then the "conceptual mind" could become (once again) the tool it was meant to be as it now resides in the hands of a clean, sovereign Spirit being, yes? Or should we throw out the conceptual mind altogether? Help me here... Chester

[Chester]

There is another way of looking at this.

For the conceptual mind to function their must be a object for the subject to ponder on.
This subject-object relationship is duality, meaning our attention is split...or distracted.

So when thought or ideas are place into the mind that is a sort of hypnosis, or neuro linguistic programming.
Until we can be free of objects in the mind (or even notice them) we will never be free!

Mind how you go!

Not sure if I am fooling myself, but I found it was my previous requirement of attachment to just about everything that had been my problem with this experience we call life that has the component you labeled called duality. Nowadays I am just enjoying life in whatever form it arises and remain relatively unattached.

I found that I am no longer under the spell of those nasty PTBs but sometimes it seems I may be more the exception than the rule.

I am having a hard time complaining about anything anymore to be honest.

[Chester]

We cannot really know who is behind the troubles in the world, but we can see the results, manipulation of everything- food, water, education, health, media, money, politics, wars, more wars, and a lot of death.

The question is why?



ahhh so maybe I can answer how come I am no longer bothered by "them" and that is because I took my own responsibility for creating "them" in my life.

I then accepted that "they" exist even if I changed my mind as to wanting "them" in my world.

I now accept "they" are there and so I am tasked with making sure they are not my enemy. I do that be being me, honestly and with no secrets and rarely an apology - a new thing for me.

I have changed... the reflection of me takes a little time to warp in. The universe has waited eons for me to get to this point so perhaps I need to be a wee bit patient in seeing the change I have now become.

Or is what I just said too logical? I don't see me attempting conceptualization here.

Strange these times as we approach this galactic alignment, yes?

[Tony]

Morning Chester,
One of the very great problems with forums, is we read and write in bits and pieces. That is a little frustrating as we are not all looking at the same 'thing', so we are coming from all directions.
They are 'not' wrong just a different view, also we may use language differently.

However we see ourselves and life, is our journey which can be refined, the more we look the deeper we go. Sometimes we may met others who may be synchronistic in that refinement on our journey. I personally have learnt much from this forum. Having said that, what was learnt was not what was said, but my reaction to it!


So..., The conceptual mind is a tool, like mindfulness. It's our boat to take us to the treasure island. Once we arrive at the island, we no longer need the boat! What is this island? It is the awareness of awareness, which is found to be uncontaminated....pure....emptiness. It have a knowing quality and best of all, it 'is' unconditional compassion!

When one rests in this pure view, nothing and no one can upset it. It is pure unconditional happiness, parasites just do not have a look in! However one also has compassion for them too, as they cannot help themselves. It's a bit like dealing with angry people on the forum!

Any negative emotion is the work of these demonic forces. They are activated by our own 'likes' and 'dislike'.....which are created by the mental conceptual image of “I”!

In truth these demonic forces are an illusion, but as we live in a relative mind/body world they seem to have an effect on this mind/body set up. This is where most people get stuck, they mix up the relative with the absolute, and get confused...and therefore through pride get angry!

However even saying that, we can learn through aversion! We can learn by everything!!! And that is exactly the point of working through the relative truth to realise the absolute truth, therefore they are inseparable.

It is not a matter of 'me' being happy and content, though that is nice, if a 'me' is still present then this is an impermanent state. We are pure awareness, a pure mirror, that never changes. Conceptual mind is just the dust on the mirror. The dusty marks are useful useful as it may help us remember the mirror...which we did not notice, or took for granted.

This real happiness or sense of joy however is tanged with sadness. As we see others suffering, even when they claim to be happy. The more we experience the more we can empathise with how others feel.

No empathy no love – Know empathy know love!....cheesy but true!




Tony

[greybeard]

Hi Chester
if you take time to work through this thread you will find answers to virtually any spiritual question.
The ego is the me. Identification with the me story in the head---when the identification is removed the true Self emerges.
Best wishes Chris


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.&p=7764&viewfull=1#post7764

[Tony]

Compassion is the key.

Once we can tie our own shoe laces up,
caste an eye around
to make sure
others do not fall over theirs.








Cheesy but true.

[Chester]

Hi Chester
if you take time to work through this thread you will find answers to virtually any spiritual question.
The ego is the me. Identification with the me story in the head---when the identification is removed the true Self emerges.
Best wishes Chris


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.&p=7764&viewfull=1#post7764

Thanks Greybeard - Conceptually, I agree. I "feel" this is absolute truth. What does not seem to have a meeting point is in resting in my non-dual awareness, which is now my one and only view point, that I once again find myself arising within this physical body vehicle. It then becomes clear to me that there is an "identity" as well to this vehicle. I have accepted this aspect of my experience and am happy to have this experiential vehicle through which I can explore knowing that a me/not me unified awareness is having its fun through me. I celebrate this role, I allow the "illusory me" the opportunity to play its role and have emerged as a relatively healthy example of an ego.

I don't get upset that I express through an illusion. I don't mind it at all. I realize my children are watching how I handle it and have been watching ever since they were born.

I (me, the ego) am happy to accept the opportunity and thus then the responsibility I have in being the whatever I want to see in this illusory/real world.

I have been to non-dual awareness and done that. I found getting stuck in the absolute truth to be boring and so I re-entered the world, albeit through the lens of a deeper perspective, perhaps the deepest - but my ego would never know that and the new me doesn't care... it just rests in being.

I have read through the thread. It has assisted me in solidifying the health of my ego, it has assisted in raising me to the next level of my exploration, which I hope is eternal, within this grand illusion that suggests to me it is not always so illusory when I drop a brick on my toe.

Funny thing about that though, since I have emerged within my latest perspective, the bricks stopped falling? I wonder how that could be?

Love, bro... Chester

[greybeard]

Hi Chester
I see the love in you.
As far as I can see the persona remains when the state matures but the me is no longer centre stage--just peripheral.
The main difference is that there is no held emotion behind any point of view and the points of view are seen as amusing.
Nothing is taken personally.
There are levels of enlightenment---it can mature, evolve but seems complete at any stage.

Regards Chris

[Chester]

Morning Chester,
One of the very great problems with forums, is we read and write in bits and pieces. That is a little frustrating as we are not all looking at the same 'thing', so we are coming from all directions.
They are 'not' wrong just a different view, also we may use language differently.

However we see ourselves and life, is our journey which can be refined, the more we look the deeper we go. Sometimes we may met others who may be synchronistic in that refinement on our journey. I personally have learnt much from this forum. Having said that, what was learnt was not what was said, but my reaction to it!


So..., The conceptual mind is a tool, like mindfulness. It's our boat to take us to the treasure island. Once we arrive at the island, we no longer need the boat! What is this island? It is the awareness of awareness, which is found to be uncontaminated....pure....emptiness. It have a knowing quality and best of all, it 'is' unconditional compassion!

When one rests in this pure view, nothing and no one can upset it. It is pure unconditional happiness, parasites just do not have a look in! However one also has compassion for them too, as they cannot help themselves. It's a bit like dealing with angry people on the forum!

Any negative emotion is the work of these demonic forces. They are activated by our own 'likes' and 'dislike'.....which are created by the mental conceptual image of “I”!

In truth these demonic forces are an illusion, but as we live in a relative mind/body world they seem to have an effect on this mind/body set up. This is where most people get stuck, they mix up the relative with the absolute, and get confused...and therefore through pride get angry!

However even saying that, we can learn through aversion! We can learn by everything!!! And that is exactly the point of working through the relative truth to realise the absolute truth, therefore they are inseparable.

It is not a matter of 'me' being happy and content, though that is nice, if a 'me' is still present then this is an impermanent state. We are pure awareness, a pure mirror, that never changes. Conceptual mind is just the dust on the mirror. The dusty marks are useful useful as it may help us remember the mirror...which we did not notice, or took for granted.

This real happiness or sense of joy however is tanged with sadness. As we see others suffering, even when they claim to be happy. The more we experience the more we can empathise with how others feel.

No empathy no love – Know empathy know love!....cheesy but true!




Tony

This post is perhaps the best one I have read and thanks that you aimed it in the direction of the one writing this response.

I see a dance here - when I open my eyes and see this world, I see expressions of that same awareness of awareness dancing. That dance sometimes descends into aggression. I find myself seeing dances of aggression in my daily life less and lass and less. In fact, I am experiencing a life where all I come in contact with are happy. I do not turn on the TV unless I want to become unhappy. I do not project my mind into fears of tomorrow. I do not waste my mind time in rehashings of the past.

I find now the only time I am exposed to any suffering and/or references to suffering of others is when I come to this (the only forum I know) and it is here that i find threads about Assasinations of Hammas leaders begins or find comments that began at Post #15 that bring up "facts" (at least the writer invested their belief in the veracity of what they have written) which suggest to me that somehow the poster that posted these "comments" is suddenly concerned about what they perceive to be the experience of others and possibly themselves in relation to some third party intelligence(s).

So suddenly, because the poster's view may be that none of the illusion even matters as all we are is awareness aware of their awareness in a sort of... what does it matter point of view... and then suddenly its all about some "they" which can only really be a creation of my own imagination (meaning the awareness of awareness's mind projection).

Being 100% honest, if I could eliminate every single injustice in the world, you would have to fight me... in fact kill me to stop me. Clearly I can't fight my own creation. I can only stop dreaming it up. In this reality, I find it wisest to avoid the reflections of this nightmare component to my dream and instead, live love within the dream. Only "I" can define, through my experience, what love is to me knowing it doesn't even matter. Unattached, fully aware.

So what I found odd is here is excellent teachings... (up through Post #14... thanks to markpierre and bram along the way with you and greybeard) and then suddenly a shift of focus to the very relative world the prior posts suggest are of no matter, of no consequense (through the lens of the absolute).

So Post #15 is nothing but old news to me, Post #16 the same, Post #17... again, old news, #16... #19 and then the strange bombshell - Post #20 which address "our enemy."

My ego discovered something that is true for me (relative truth and my awareness knows it, accepts it and is now very comfortable with it) - it is a Chester, twist to the age old saying... "You are your own worst enemy."

My version of the day (yes... my ego's version) is this.

"You are your only enemy." Of course, "you" means "me" which when it becomes my real enemy is when "me" becomes "Me."

So, accepting the opportunity to explore this illusion, knowing that there is no "I" and at the end of the day, there is not even an "i" allows me to embrace the dance between the "i" and the "I" and simply watch it. Watch how "it" unfolds. Watch when "i" become involved in the dance. And beware when "I" shows up.

I enjoy "it" now that "iI" (as Sri Ramana Maharsi liked to express the identity) understands its role.

Simplifying all this there "is"

awareness of being aware (me/not me)

i

I

"it" - the dance

celebration of "it" all.

There's my View O' the Day

otherwise, I suggest withdrawal from the illusion in whatever way suits another vesrion of "me" and each of us can decide how we do that.

Cheers, cChester

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Hi Chester
I see the love in you.
As far as I can see the persona remains when the state matures but the me is no longer centre stage--just peripheral.
The main difference is that there is no held emotion behind any point of view and the points of view are seen as amusing.
Nothing is taken personally.
There are levels of enlightenment---it can mature, evolve but seems complete at any stage.

Regards Chris

as you can see... I am stubbornly working on it... haha Thanks Chris and thanks pie'n'eal

ahhh and thanks also to Fred... one of my favorite mirrors.

[Chester]

Since videos have been shared (which I watched contemplatively...) try watching this video discussion with Tim Freke. I found his expression of these ideas parallel to the views expressed by Ron Paul and was the view I attempted to express (and explore) in the lovely Assassinations of Hamas leaders thread which got the attention of Limor and a few others (fortunately)... and the video from Mathieu Ricard - an explorer of "happiness" and yes, its illusory counterpart, "suffering" and the lovely "Psychopaths rule the world" - of course they do but whose world are they ruling? "Ours"? So let's for a moment allow the illusion to be valid of our attention... Our world. Our world suggests to me this world is a world experienced and/or possessed by others and myself. This makes "us" responsible and within that us is "the psychopaths"... the "they".

Where is the illusory line between you and a psychopath? I mean really? We (at this level) is all illusion anyways... as the only absolute (and thus the only "thing" real and thus the only "thing" with validity) is the awareness of awareness...

I have been unable to answer these questions. When I drop that brick on my toe, I recognize a bodily vehicle. I then realize there are other components associated with this vehicle. I then go deep within and discover there is the awareness and that this awareness is aware of being aware... where do the two meet?

Does it matter that I answer that question? It just is. And my acceptance of this is what Tim Freke has labeled as "paralogical thinking."

I tried out this latest fashion of consciousness and strangely I have found by applying this view has a directly proportional effect on the quality of my experience. I already achieved full, 100% psychopathy and found expressing myself psychopathically was not enjoyable. It occupied my time... it was distracting, but i was unhappy.

So, taking all the truth of what a psychopath bases their being upon with me (you can decide if there is anything of value that can come from that experience worth taking with you, I do not suggest there's anything... only that there might be something) "iI" made a free will choice at the core of my being... perhaps at the very first step into the illusion, that "I" (whatever that is or isn't) have chosen to be in positive, right and eternal relationship with all that is and this also happens to include the very anti-relationship... the lovely "ego."

Here is an example of what I see as an expression of a healthy ego - it takes far less time to watch this video than the time it took me to watch the other videos posted so far in this thread.

Try it out... with an open mind - just try it.

JnSCLMgCI1Y

[Chester]

Looking inside the mind of a psychopath with no empathy.


mG66QFnufIQ

Psychopaths no longer rule my world... they simply happen to arise within my awareness.

I am experiencing a movement where psychopaths appear less and less within my view of what arises.

If anyone is interested in exploring how I have achieved this capability, I would be open to sharing it with you.

Enjoy the Day

[skippy]

There is somewhat of a contradiction in the following, but I see some difficulties with the use and conceptualisation of "absolute truth" and "compassion" as pointers to the state beyond the conceptual mind. Yes it is, but at the same time it is also not... to keep a sort-like of a level playing field. Experience is key in this domain. No special priviliges reserved here. Beingness, or whatever you would like to call it, can also lose temper, and at some very surprising moments, and what a difference with an angry mind ... "The heart has its reasons of which reason knows nothing" (Pascal). Just a thought

[Tony]

There is somewhat of a contradiction in the following, but I see some difficulties with the use and conceptualisation of "absolute truth" and "compassion" as pointers to the state beyond the conceptual mind. Yes it is, but at the same time it is also not... to keep a sort-like of a level playing field. Experience is key in this domain. No special priviliges reserved here. Beingness, or whatever you would like to call it, can also lose temper, and at some very surprising moments, and what a difference with an angry mind ... "The heart has its reasons of which reason knows nothing" (Pascal). Just a thought


Yes, a little passion is needed! And yes, experience is the key, as there are subtle nuances that are personal to us, that are sometimes difficult to explain. In fact some little or large occurrence might happen which blows our conceptual mind to pieces...a sort of synchronistic trigger.

I have exploded several times at my teacher, and he just taps me on the head....it is placed back in my court...I explode some more...and melt!


"If life isn't a little crazy,
then we are still asleep."





All the best,
Tony

[Tony]

I do not know how real this is, but it maybe worth listening to.
There are other conversations about new age, gold, manipulations.

Start about 27 minutes.

Maybe ...HARRP, chemtrails with 'yes' 'no' elements in it, mind control are connected, via your “shiny-hand-held-gadget”. = self running software – bacteria = AI.

Gadgets-software free, but you pay with your mind!!!

The 'heliosphere' (?) suppressing people.



Tlf7XEYOtFo

[skippy]

The 'heliosphere' (?) suppressing people.

Fact or make believe..?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPLiBxhoug0&feature=relmfu

[Tony]

All of this conspiracy business seems to be about misdirecting the mind or consciousness. A bit like a magician showing one hand, and doing something with the other. If there are people doing this, then they are doing it in a big way, fooling people at every turn, knowing full well that people fool themselves at every turn!

Though Mr A. talks much about the manipulation of society of the PTB, he never mentions the spiritual element, because he is not interested in that.
But this is exactly what it is all about! The mind or consciousness can easily be manipulated, but not Essence. Though Essence may be clouded!

Remember, Essence is merely Pure Awareness. Though the mind is easily clouded, it is also easily broken through.

When a magician is at work...watch both hands!


Is there more to gold than meets the eye?

[Chester]

Hi Chester
I see the love in you.
As far as I can see the persona remains when the state matures but the me is no longer centre stage--just peripheral.
The main difference is that there is no held emotion behind any point of view and the points of view are seen as amusing.
Nothing is taken personally.
There are levels of enlightenment---it can mature, evolve but seems complete at any stage.

Regards Chris

I am unsure if the love in me suddenly took a vacation based on the post I just made regarding David Wilcock. I certainly don't see much compassion in it either. At the same time, I couldn't help myself. Strange how life goes sometimes, yes?

[Tony]

Hi Chester
I see the love in you.
As far as I can see the persona remains when the state matures but the me is no longer centre stage--just peripheral.
The main difference is that there is no held emotion behind any point of view and the points of view are seen as amusing.
Nothing is taken personally.
There are levels of enlightenment---it can mature, evolve but seems complete at any stage.

Regards Chris

I am unsure if the love in me suddenly took a vacation based on the post I just made regarding David Wilcock. I certainly don't see much compassion in it either. At the same time, I couldn't help myself. Strange how life goes sometimes, yes?



That's just passionate love. Don't leave home without it!