Can TPTB Be Stopped?

[gripreaper]

Can TPTB be stopped?

This thread is inspired by a short video Bill posted on the “Shadow Operations” Mars Project thread, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHt9g8sZ9zQ highlighting a few candid moments from the early days of Project Camelot. In it, Kerry asks Jordan Maxwell, if he thinks “they” can be stopped, and his answer is an emphatic NO.

I want to change that meme to YES. How we do that, is to learn how the TPTB use energy, and how they control the energetic matrix, feed negative energies into the grid ley lines, and how they hold this energy in place and control the consciousness of the plane. How do we balance out the energy which is sequestered, stuck, polarized, and withheld? We do this in a similar fashion as to how the elite do it, but we do it through the heart and with empathy, breaking the curses which are holding the quantum energy in the polarized and disconnected states of psychopathy.

The context for such an evaluation needs to be made on the quantum level, and not in the actual manifestations which occur as a result of these quantum rituals which the elite use to steer consciousness and events.

Anyone who has followed the Horus Ra thread understands what is meant by ritual, and what these rituals do to the energy, how it amplifies it, focuses it, and directs it towards an outcome which severs the consciousness, emotions, and spiritual nature of humanity towards a disconnected, emotionally distraught and fearful energy field. This is done in the collective, as well as on the individual level.

These elite use these techniques on their own children to insure that the agenda moves forward, and that the upcoming generations remain psychopathic and disconnected from any type of empathic loving nature they may accidentally receive. Diana, princess of Wales, is a good example of this. Her loving nature was a threat to the Crown and therefore she needed to be taken out.

Some examples of their rituals include the assassinations of JFK and Princess Diana, the Columbine school and Colorado theater shootings, and of course, 9-11, Oklahoma City, etc. The more subtle energetic curses were the trusts set up in 1666, which gave everything on the planet to the Vatican, and these curses are still in place today and have never been rebuked or rebutted.

So the answer, is to energetically rebut the presumptions, rebuke the curses, break the continuity of these energies, and place in the grid and energetic matrix the balanced energy of the heart, the empathic nature, and the antithesis of slavery, control, fear and death.

Many would say, as soon as your energy pops up on their radar as being strong enough to break their matrix of control, you are immediately challenged, mind controlled, compromised, and stopped from threatening the control grid or its agenda. It is also said that it is impossible to gather enough energy to break the curse, since these curses are so ancient and so grooved into the matrix, that it would be a gargantuan task to gather enough momentum and collective energy to break it.

We do have examples of good people who have stood up, spoken the truth, and have paid with their lives, and yet, we have the inertia of the awakening masses who, when they reach a point of awakening where they finally realize who did this to us, and reach the conclusion that they are not going to play their game anymore, that’s when there will be enough energy to break the ancient curses.

Yes, it’s all about the energy first and the manifestations second. It’s about us holding the intention for the outcome we wish to experience, it is about each of us individually speaking our truth in each moment, rebuking the ancient curses, rebutting the presumptions, cleansing all energies we come in contact with through the heart center, and then DOING everything we can to bring awakening to the masses. I know I’m preaching to the choir here at Avalon, for this is the very essence of this forum, yet it bears repeating at times.

In conclusion: The ONLY thing the elite controllers fear is the energy of the collective consciousness and the awakening of the masses to their true power. This is the ONLY thing we have to break the curse and to usher in the golden age of a new paradigm. This is how we beat them at their own game, the same way they put us in bondage, is the same way we break the bondage.

After 200,000 years of this, do you think we’ve had enough?

[Mozart]

So the answer, is to energetically rebut the presumptions, rebuke the curses, break the continuity of these energies, and place in the grid and energetic matrix the balanced energy of the heart, the empathic nature, and the antithesis of slavery, control, fear and death...

...After 200,000 years of this, do you think we’ve had enough?


Fvck, yea, I've HAD ENOUGH OF THE CABAL!


Great post, Grip.


I have been long active in mentally, emotionally and physically rebutting their presumptions (by the Sovereignty movment), their curses and their memes (by avoiding the MSM) as much as I could. I've done what I could there.


We cannot do this alone (humans alone), hence we are already getting help from our ET buddies right now and that kind of help is very likely to step up on quantum levels once Dec 21st comes and passes.


All the best to you, Grip, and to others for their own awakening processes,


~Mozart

[Kiforall]

Firstly we must stop calling them TPTB and start calling them TPTW.

A positive term even with a negative intent still empowers them.

The lesser powers that were would be more appropriate. Lol

Zoe x

[Hawkwind]

Honestly, I think this pretty well covers it:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Soe8ayi3ScE

Can the powers that be be stopped?- Through any sort of intellectually conceived plan, I don't think so. Through each of us cultivating what is good in ourselves and others, and not giving in to darkness- fear, hate, greed, etc. no matter what- I think so.
The Lord of the Rings really is my all time favorite story- four little hobbitses from a tiny farming village get caught up in an epic adventure, fight along side the grandest of heroes against the insurmountable power of the all seeing eye. And in the end, their combined courage is met with just enough Divine Grace to turn the tide.
Hang in there, Frodo(s).

[ghostrider]

The only way to stop them is, make them famous, their connections, investments, friends, family members, and make their friends and connections famous, the thing that the wealthy elite reguard the most is privacy. Anyone present at a meeting, what it was about, where it was, when it was, that sort of thing. A good place to start is Prescott Bush. What did he do with his money ? How is germany connected ? Then Bush senior, where did he work ? who were his friends ? The New World Order put a spotlight up their rear ends....We must control the narrative of the era. Instead of us responding to the news of the day , we should make the news of the day respond to US. Use their own ideas against them and expose their weakness..... privacy.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Yes they can be stopped. Far more people like us than them. We will always outnumber them.

[gripreaper]

Bashar: The main focus of their work is multifold. We would say the idea that we would wish to stress the most is the idea that they are teaching you about fear. They are allowing you to move through your deepest fears, allowing you in an archetypal way to bring up those fears for transformational clearing. They are in that sense representing to you the idea of unity as you represent to them the idea of individuality. You are in a sense two opposite ends of a pole, and you are integrating together to form one integrated consciousness. You are learning from each other. You are growing from each other. You are giving each other many gifts. Neither one of you are victims of the other. You are all cocreators in all that is going on.

From post#10 in this thread.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52399-How-do-you-mentally-process-the-alleged-abductions-of-humans-by-greys-and-others

We need to own it to transform it. We allowed it, we acquiesced to it, we co-created it, we dug deep into our fears, we embraced the control grid, we lived it, we loathed it, we screamed out against is as victims...

But until we own it we will not transform it.

[Billy]

Where intention goes, Energy flows.

TPTB focus their intention, manifesting energy, humanity "allows" this energy to effect them. Can humanity stop or prevent the intentions of TPTB. and the energy that manifests from this intention. NO.

We allow others intentions to dumb down humanity, We allow ourselves to be slaves of their intentions,

We can prevent this intention from effecting us by focusing our own intentions, manifesting an alternative energy. creating an energy that is for the betterment of humanity and the planet we live on. If critical mass of this energy is reached. The others energetic intentions has no option but to follow the flow of the manifested greater energetic field. Or depart.

Therefore it is not so much about stopping others , but creating an energy field where TPTB cannot function anymore.

Stop NO, Change YES.

My thoughts

Peace

EDITI Just noticed you're post above Grip. Excellent.

[Mark]

Many effective energy workers are currently confronting and combating the energetic structures that the PTW have put in place over the centuries. It is slow work but increasing in speed as the consciousness of the general populace of the world increases, which lends power to those energy workers who are like lasers, focused at the point of the energy wave, destroying and re-configuring these structures. Even though some are in the forefront of the alternative community, they blog, they write about some aspects of the work they are doing most are generally quiet, gathered in small groups and working together on individuals and the fields of energy that bind us. Assailing the paradigms and metanarratives is part of this work, leading to change that manifests at a larger scale seemingly by "divine providence", which is indeed what these initiatives are at the most esoteric level.

[Kiforall]

Talking about ley lines of the grid.

I find it interesting that ancient monuments from the magnificent pyramids to the more unimposing stone circles, the natural mountains, rivers and lakes which have always been seen as energy centres are no longer used to charge the planets circuitry with positive intention.

There are thousands upon thousands of these structures and in my small area of the lake district many are not even publicly known about, kept secret.

When the authorities can't cover them up the explanation of them completely falls short of their very important spiritual meaning and use. (people came together there to sell stone axes, give us some credit, the bloody things line up to the stars, why not just build a wood hut and call it a shop)

Where did all the churches get built?
Usually on the top of these sites. The ley line's are still used but now it is to charge them with negative energy.

The symbolism and preaching that occurs at these sites fills the circuitry with lies, frustation, sadness and evil.

If these sites are also being used for more satanic rituals as it believed by the lesser powers that were we are not only being attacked by media etc but through the ground and connections through the energy centres.

Holy Water, now here is something I know has a lot more to it than people think.
Holy water in churches from the alter within the church, charged with lies and biblical control is placed on the babies charkra's even before they have chance to think for themselves. What a start in life.

Gargoyles placed outside these churches aren't to keep evil spirit's out, they are to keep evil energy in.

Churches, the places of worship also bring in the dead for funerals, people mourn in churches the same place where new life is celebrated.

Ancient people seem to have had burial sites away from places of worship, unless the were percieved as godly as in Egypt.

Stone circles were in one place, the long barrows(ancient burial sites) were usually along the same ley line but further away.
Plus death was celebrated in them times now it is seen as a loss.

They stopped Pagan/druid worship and celebration's, killed hundreds of them because they were witches.
They stopped American Indians having their ceremonies or removed indiginous people from their energy centres, like the Aboriginals etc. They knew how powerful that intent was.

They can't stop us uniting and joining this new found knowledge of Love as we no longer need places of worship, we don't need to gather together to be able to share our love in a higher conciousness that will effect everyone including them.

Zoe x

[gooty64]

Credo Mutwa said that he is "worried sick" for humanity.
I am too.
My first thought to the OP question is "precipitating event" would be only thing to stop the ptb.
And to me that "precipitating event" is way bigger than us.
Something like a miracle, un-forseen event, a dramatic shift in consciousness a thousand times faster that the current rate of awakening consciousness.
In other words, :noidea:!

[lake]

In conclusion: The ONLY thing the elite controllers fear is the energy of the collective consciousness and the awakening of the masses to their true power. This is the ONLY thing we have to break the curse and to usher in the golden age of a new paradigm. This is how we beat them at their own game, the same way they put us in bondage, is the same way we break the bondage.


While I love your passion and want for change to an ideal which you perceive to be "better", I can't help but feel that in your haste you have missed a subtle point, the only requirement for a soul here is to learn for themselves in a selfish manner otherwise how can you have knowledge of the "loving" self?

To exist in hell and still be able to walk a path of "love" for the self/physical form and so understand the greed and indoctrination of other parts of the script while still keeping a veiled but valued "feel" for all life, is an important lesson.

;)

[DarMar]

Mission of one shouldn't be to stop others but to start moving itself!

[Youniverse]

Yes! Thanks to all for these poignant posts! I love it! When you pose the question in earnestness, the answer is already on its way to you. More and more of us are asking this question, can the PTW be stopped or dethroned? I agree with those that say it is not so much about stopping anything, it is rendering that which does not serve us, powerless, and thus creating a new paradigm. There will come a time very soon when the "kings" will turn to summon their subjects only to find there is no one there to rule. My friend above referenced a helpful quote from Bashar. I would like to add to that another point made by Bashar that once we (enough of us) send a clear and strong message to our leaders that we are not living from fear anymore and have no use for the structures and systems we helped create that were fear-based, they will have no choice but to jion the movement or step-aside or be crushed by its might. Bashar goes on to say that we must teach them WHO WE ARE and what serves who we are better. Bashar also states that positive energy is expansive, creative and inclusive by its nature, and more powerful than negative energy which is divisive and exclusive by nature. So crossing the threshold of Dec.21/2012 tips the scale to slightly more positive energy, he says, which actually culminates in a significantly stronger momentum in favour of the positive. I am totally on board with this assessment. But back to the PTW and the ills of this world. Yes! I pronounce to all of you! I OWN IT!!! I did my part to allow these things to happen. I helped create the kind of collective consciousness that produced this outcome, that made this mess. And yes I am definately a part of the solution to the crises we face! I am and will be with all of you to call in to existence "heaven on Earth." This is the new collective consciousness powered by love and oneness that replaces the old one based on fear and division. Hitler could not have taken hold and done the damage that he did to humanity without the collective consciousness that made it possible. This is the same way WE will make the wonders and redemption possible in this world very soon. The more the PTW realize they are losing their grip on us all, the more desperate the measures they will take, and the more they will expose themselves to the world, thereby allowing more and more of us to wake up to what's going on. Ultimately that exposure will lead to the dissolution of the PTW. It's happening! Believe it!

[Rollo]

I was thinking maybe one of this events could be to get our memory back. Memory old like humans are. TPTW use the fact that we don't remember who we are and what we are capable of to their advantage.

Much love,
Rollo

[Youniverse]

I resonate with what you are saying, simgaz, though as is pointed out in "Conversations With God" by Neale Donald Walsch, it is not necessary for That Which You Are Not(fear, evil, hate, pain, etc.) to be right next to you for you to be aware of it and express what you are. Personally, I've had enough of the nonsense, and am more than ready to get on with experiencing the manifestation and expression of the greater glory of God right here on Earth. Though, you are right to point out that it all starts with deciding what you are not by looking around you. Here's to hoping we've all figured that out by now, or are well on our way!

[Wiremu2011]

Many effective energy workers are currently confronting and combating the energetic structures that the PTW have put in place over the centuries. It is slow work but increasing in speed as the consciousness of the general populace of the world increases, which lends power to those energy workers who are like lasers, focused at the point of the energy wave, destroying and re-configuring these structures. Even though some are in the forefront of the alternative community, they blog, they write about some aspects of the work they are doing most are generally quiet, gathered in small groups and working together on individuals and the fields of energy that bind us. Assailing the paradigms and metanarratives is part of this work, leading to change that manifests at a larger scale seemingly by "divine providence", which is indeed what these initiatives are at the most esoteric level.

I agree here. I feel intuitively that we amongst various "shepards" like Inelia (and the like) have strategically positioned themselves here at this time to level out a fair playing field and encouraging the masses to alter its vibration in anticipation of these changing energies the PTW are using aginst us to their advantage, whatever that is.
Just remember to keep working to keep your own vibration and let it flow, absorb and emanate in your immediate world.

[christian]

Anything is possible.

There is so much at work in the greater scheme of things, from our current human vantage point we can only fathom so little, even if you consider yourself awakened. What we can do is fight the good fight and never give up.

For what it's worth at this critical juncture we seem to be at, no one can certainly tell. But in the greater scheme of things, proceeding courageously is the only thing that will ever yield genuine progress, individually and collectively.

Don't worry, have no fear (http://ascension101.com/en/ascension-tools/33-ascension-tools/105-fear-processing-exercise.html), just keep on keeping on.

Wnyg6veHDPA

[lake]

So crossing the threshold of Dec.21/2012 tips the scale to slightly more positive energy..........

I have a MAJOR problem with this and I hope you may be able to help me?

Time as we, as human beings, understand it has been told to us and we only have comprehension of it through history. As we all here know, history is not to be trusted, so then one must conclude that any preconceived "understanding of time or what time it is" can only be as a grain of sand on a beach.
Therefore to have "faith" in a date, which may be out by (please put your own understanding of math here) can only dwell in a drama of fear or want for the exist door.
For all I know this supposed year is 1712. Who without using written by others concepts or funded based research can say I am incorrect?

:eek:

[Chester]

Bashar: The main focus of their work is multifold. We would say the idea that we would wish to stress the most is the idea that they are teaching you about fear. They are allowing you to move through your deepest fears, allowing you in an archetypal way to bring up those fears for transformational clearing. They are in that sense representing to you the idea of unity as you represent to them the idea of individuality. You are in a sense two opposite ends of a pole, and you are integrating together to form one integrated consciousness. You are learning from each other. You are growing from each other. You are giving each other many gifts. Neither one of you are victims of the other. You are all cocreators in all that is going on.

From post#10 in this thread.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52399-How-do-you-mentally-process-the-alleged-abductions-of-humans-by-greys-and-others

We need to own it to transform it. We allowed it, we acquiesced to it, we co-created it, we dug deep into our fears, we embraced the control grid, we lived it, we loathed it, we screamed out against is as victims...

But until we own it we will not transform it.

What Bashar explains is precisely how I interpret (now) the experience I went through.

But that is not how I felt last December when hanging onto a thin steal rail deciding whether or not I should "save the world" as "the voice" told me I had to do by killing my physical body.

If this is what a human goes through... perhaps taking lifetimes to do so, I truly have no clue why. It doesn't make sense. Especially when I consider all those who succumbed to that "voice in the head."

But I can honestly say now that I have no regrets other than the strange guilt I have about all the hell I put my family and friends/loved ones through. I am still dealing with that.

But my experiences in this regard were very real. The "dream" (was far more than a dream as I still recall the details today) where the LAMs actually showed me the chip they were about to implant into me - it was new technology. I vividly recall absolutely trusting these beings.

Now what really happened? I have no idea, but one very, very strange bi-product of that experience even if it was just a dream is that I accepted my thoughts are known to other beings whether I like it or not. And this has been a major factor in my recent form of living... where I am very honest, too honest in fact for lots of other folks.

When I think of wynderer and her experiences I feel terribly guilty that I have no regrets about mine, even though it may very well be the same phenomena we are experiencing.

Great Thread, gripreaper - Chester

[christian]

So crossing the threshold of Dec.21/2012 tips the scale to slightly more positive energy..........

I have a MAJOR problem with this and I hope you may be able to help me?

Experiments have shown how the individual and collective focus on something can produce very substancial effects. Many people are and will be very focused on that date. Simply by having emphasized the significance of that date for so long — and even if for no other reason than that — it has become important and a good opportunity for a collective focused intentional meditation. Many people will get into a meditative state on that date. I will definitely make an effort to assist there, so that the potential gathered will be used for the highest and best good of all. My individual contribution may seem insignificant, but I insist on making it and I appreciate the opportunity.

[enfoldedblue]

Hi ,

Great Post

I believe that beneath the surface the energies have already changed. Many of us who are tapped in at the deeper levels can feel this dramatic shift. The question I believe is only really how long will it take for this shift to manifest on the surface. TPTW know this and will try their best to keep us locked in the fear matrix for as long as they can...but ultimately it is up to us to connect with the new energies that are here...and literally become the change.

We are like birds who have been trapped in cages for aeons...the door is now open, but most of us have so internalized the belief that the door is locked and will always be that we don't even notice that it is open. Then there are those of us who can see that the door is open, but have been trapped for so long we have NO IDEA what this new freedom even means...
I believe that the key is to focus on love..love will heal us and guide us into realms that are unreachable by the poor miserable PTW with their frozen hearts.

I have a lot of witing about this on my website if anyone is intersted.

Here is a little excerpt:

For most of my life the energies I felt on Earth DID NOT feel right...dense, shallow and mired in fear; I felt the need to keep my most beautiful and fragile aspects tucked away. However in the last year I have felt a profound shift occur at the deeper levels. The energies feel lighter, more fluid and loving. These energies are nurturing and supporting all that is based in love, and are ushering a whole new paradigm of existence; one that is based on love and unity rather than fear and separation. (in-depth description of these changing energies and Love and Fear)


The more I align with this change, the safer I feel to expand out to far reaches of my being and re-member all that I truly am.

Right now as the surface reality is in the process of responding to this shift of energy there is inevitably a lot of chaos and confusion occurring around us. Those who cling to the old energies will find it increasingly difficult to make progress, as all that is old is in the process of collapse. However, those of us choosing to follow the call of our hearts are finding ourselves increasingly immersed in a reality filled with magic, love, healing, laughter, and community.

Personally, as this shift occurs within, I have felt myself drawn to a more natural, simple lifestyle. As I release social programming, the need for external validation diminishes and I find myself discovering what really makes my heart sing. I am learning to weave love into every aspect of my life and the more I am able to do this the more I feel myself participating in a profound magical dance that is at once an expression of my unique soul and a reconnection to a beautiful collective harmony.

Thanks

[Chester]

Anything is possible.

There is so much at work in the greater scheme of things, from our current human vantage point we can only fathom so little, even if you consider yourself awakened. What we can do is fight the good fight and never give up.

For what it's worth at this critical juncture we seem to be at, no one can certainly tell. But in the greater scheme of things, proceeding courageously is the only thing that will ever yield genuine progress, individually and collectively.

Don't worry, have no fear (http://ascension101.com/en/ascension-tools/33-ascension-tools/105-fear-processing-exercise.html), just keep on keeping on.

Wnyg6veHDPA

Great segment in the 5th Element (one of my top 10 favorite movies) - also this


Experiments have shown how the individual and collective focus on something can produce very substancial effects. Many people are and will be very focused on that date. Simply by having emphasized the significance of that date for so long — and even if for no other reason than that — it has become important and a good opportunity for a collective focused intentional meditation. Many people will get into a meditative state on that date. I will definitely make an effort to assist there, so that the potential gathered will be used for the highest and best good of all. My individual contribution may seem insignificant, but I insist on making it and I appreciate the opportunity.

is precisely how I see (and advise we approach) this date range around just before and the day of Christmas. - Thanks, Chris, justone

[Fred Steeves]

After 200,000 years of this, do you think we’ve had enough?

Hey Grip, good thread brother. I've changed my view on this question drastically in the last year, and now see it as rather a mute point. In short, I no longer feel that there will ever be any sort of mass awakening, nor was that ever in the cards to begin with. My current view anyway, is that the place we find ourselves in is very close to the Buddhist Samsara, and there is no mass exiting of that realm, only personal transcendence. And to further the point, the more one wishes to escape it, the more they become entwined in it.

I think that we are here of our own volition, that we knew exactly what we were getting ourselves into, and we will all work ourselves out of the situation, individually, in our own good time. And being that ultimately there is no time, there is no hurry. A good thing, being that I think I've been the class clown for a good bit of the "time".(LOL) Which by the way I think is likely in the billions or trillions of years, not the hundreds of thousands.

Anyway, like the old saying "all roads lead to Rome", me thinks it comes down to realizing that all roads lead back to self. Anywhere else is chasing down phantom rabbit holes. Master ourselves, and we master our surroundings. I came across this symbolic depiction of Hermes/Thoth in a book I've been reading recently by Manly Hall, "The Secret Teachings Of All Ages", that I think sums things up in a nutshell. Description below:

19433

Hermes as the personification of Universal Wisdom, is here depicted with his foot upon the back of Typhon, the vanquished dragon of ignorance and perversion. To the Egyptian initiate, Typhon the devourer of souls signified the lower world which swallows up the spiritual nature of the individual who, being imperfect i.e. out of balance, descends from the higher spheres and is drawn into the physical universe. To be swallowed by Typhon therefore signifies the process of rebirth, from which "man-kind of life form" can only release him or her self by vanquishing his mortal adversary.

In one hand Hermes carries the Caduceus, a winged rod with two fighting serpents intertwined about it, in the other the immortal Emerald, upon whose surface was inscribed in raised letters the sum of philosophy. The figure wears the ancient Egyptian Masonic apron according to the pattern discovered by Belzoni an eminent Egyptologist. The two small circles contain the forms and symbols most closely associated with Hermes. In the upper circle is the Ibis, whose curious characteristics have caused it to be particularly associated with the medical art. In initiation ceremonies the Egyptian priests wore masks in the form of the ibis head to signify that they represented the attributes of Thoth or Hermes. The lower circle contains the dog, an animal always associated with Hermes because of its intelligence and devotion, upon the forehead of Hermes appears the uraus, the secret symbol of the constellation of Scorpio, which represents the regeneration of the same power that in the form of the dragon lies helpless under his foot. The scarab over the heart of Hermes represents the presence of the spiritual and regenerative light within his own soul, the collar typifies by its circles the orbits of the heavenly bodies. The three points of the tail of Typhon which end in arrows indicate the three destructive expressions if universal energy - mental, moral and physical perversion. The entire diagram signifies mastery through the regeneration of the body, illumination of the mind, and the transmutation of the emotions.

[humanalien]

The powers that be have long arms that span the entire world,
moon and mars. They have unlimited money, armament and
willing slaves to do their bidding. They have the aide of alien
lifeforms, to help them along the way.

How could anyone possibly stop a power like that. I'm with
Jordan on this one. There is no stopping these people. Death
and doom will come to the people of this planet. It's just a
matter of when, now.

Maybe if the people that are not slaves to the ptb, were to get
off their dead asses and try to do something then maybe it could
be stopped but i know this will not happen. There are so many
people world wide that have no idea what is going on, right under
their noses.

The war won't end pretty either. There will be a war. A war of US against
THEM and it will be a bloody, death filled war.

If we were able to fight this power, we would need an underground
base to make and store weapons. We would need to start massing our
money, into one pot, to feed the war. We would need the help of our
own alien friends, that could help us create new technology(weapons).
We would need to learn how to fight the war covertly so that not so
many of us would die.

If this could happen, we would at least have a fighting chance but as
it stands now, no way will be be able to beat them. We are not prepared.

[Hawkwind]

How could anyone possibly stop a power like that. I'm with
Jordan on this one. There is no stopping these people. Death
and doom will come to the people of this planet. It's just a
matter of when, now.


Methinks you've looked into that Palantir a tad too often, Denethor.

I'm as certain as I can be that this story will have a happy ending. In any case, I will continue to work toward that end to the best of my ability. If you believe darkness will prevail, it already has.

[Jake]

Awesome discussion. I think that the fact that TPTB must remain hidden/secret/false/deceptive,,, says it all... they have already failed on premise... The only way to beat a sovereign spirit is to get that spirit to deceive itself.. That is the most likely gambit for a power that must remain hidden... (hidden = already defeated) The trick is to realize our OWN power!!! It is much like the wizard of OZ... We have always had courage, and had a heart, and a brain,,, it is a matter of realizing it on a large scale...

Jake.

[enfoldedblue]

Last night I was contemplating how I see the shift in paradigm occuring. I am experiencing profound inner transformation that is based on integration..as though on a path of returning to wholeness. I have met many others experiencing similar inner transformation, and have read much that indicates that this is part of a process that has been predicted since ancient times. Part of this process has also been becoming much more aware and in tune with the energy around me. For me I have felt a big change in the energies that surround me...but most other people don't seem to notice anything. So I found myself with I found these two conflicting lines of thought of how things might play out:

A) Shift in planetary energies that affects the consciousness of all inhabitants..re-awakening...re-membering all that we are beyond the box of 3D reality.

B) (Similar to Fred's perspective) we all have to do the inner work on a personal level in order to individually free ourselves from the chains of 3D existence.

In the end what felt right to me was actually a balance between the two. For me it feels as though this process is occuring on an individual and collective level. So everyone will ultimately have to do their inner work, but we are entering a period of time when the planetary energies are more supportive of this process. And as more individuals find their own wholeness...this will imprint on the collective whole...and make the process that much easier......and that much easier......like a system feeding itself..with love in the direction of healing, instead of with fear in the direction of demise.

[D-Day]

The powers that be have long arms that span the entire world,
moon and mars. They have unlimited money, armament and
willing slaves to do their bidding. They have the aide of alien
lifeforms, to help them along the way.

How could anyone possibly stop a power like that. I'm with
Jordan on this one. There is no stopping these people. Death
and doom will come to the people of this planet. It's just a
matter of when, now.

Maybe if the people that are not slaves to the ptb, were to get
off their dead asses and try to do something then maybe it could
be stopped but i know this will not happen. There are so many
people world wide that have no idea what is going on, right under
their noses.

The war won't end pretty either. There will be a war. A war of US against
THEM and it will be a bloody, death filled war.

If we were able to fight this power, we would need an underground
base to make and store weapons. We would need to start massing our
money, into one pot, to feed the war. We would need the help of our
own alien friends, that could help us create new technology(weapons).
We would need to learn how to fight the war covertly so that not so
many of us would die.

If this could happen, we would at least have a fighting chance but as
it stands now, no way will be be able to beat them. We are not prepared.

Hmmm.

Interesting outlook ya got there humanalien... perhaps you should just roll over and die right now then eh? lol

In all seriousness though, there's more to our existence than simply the experiences that we have here in physicality.

We are not these bodies we inhabit, we are eternal spirits who made a choice to come here and experience everything this plane of existence has to offer.

... which includes not only the good, but also the bad, and sometimes even the ugly when/if required.

What happens to us from a physical standpoint while we are here is not what's important at the end of the day.

What is important, however, is how we consciously interpret, perceive, react to, and lean/grow from, the experiences that we have during our time here.

The question of who has the most tech, guns, bombs, DUMBS, control systems in place etc is not a matter of great import - at least not as far asi I'm concened anyway.

TPTB came here just as we did, to have their "experience", and they have their role to play just as we do our own.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to individual perception, perspective, and awareness, as this is what determines the state of the collective consciousness, which in turn is what shapes tha nature of this reality.

I'm certain that our circumstances will change when the time is right, but until then my advice would be to sit back, enjoy the ride, and soak up as much experience as you can.

If that means taking on TPTB and changing the world for the better... then great!

If that means working 3 part time jobs as a single mother in order to support you little ones... then great!

If that means spending all your free time watching mindless reality tv shows... then great!

If that means manipulating and exploiting humanity for you own personal gain... the so be it!

It's ALL about experience, and each experience is valid/justified in it's own right.

We each have our own path/journey to take.

[enfoldedblue]

Awesome discussion. I think that the fact that TPTB must remain hidden/secret/false/deceptive,,, says it all... they have already failed on premise... The only way to beat a sovereign spirit is to get that spirit to deceive itself.. That is the most likely gambit for a power that must remain hidden... (hidden = already defeated) The trick is to realize our OWN power!!! It is much like the wizard of OZ... We have always had courage, and had a heart, and a brain,,, it is a matter of realizing it on a large scale...

Jake.

Yes! And when we pull back the curtain we find that the big scary wizard is really just a pathetic old man disguising himself with a lot of smoke and mirrors!

[Sidney]

Sometimes you get to the point where hope is lost. Thats how I feel today. I am sorry to be the dark cloud here, but that is my truth today. maybe tomorrow will be different, but probably not.

[Youniverse]

I appreciate your point simgaz and yours as well christian. Ya I said to a friend the other day that maybe this whole Dec.21/2012 idea is the ancients knowledge of the power of suggestion at work. Of course, every story or mythology only hold the meanings and significance humanity has put there for one reason or another. That being said, I agree that obviously we are unaware of a great deal at work here. Apparently we chose to become so ignorant, ha ha. Ya the date only holds the power that we place on it? I cannot rule that possibility out. Nor can I rule out that there are natural cycles at work that act as cosmic switches which provide humanity the opportunity to take a quantum jump in evolution every 26,000 years or so. Who knows for sure? One thing I do know for sure is that I have had enough of the world as it is and want to do my part to bring about "Heaven on Earth". I suspect that there are a great many people out there that feel the same way. I also very strongly believe that change comes from within. So I enjoy the stories and decide which ones resonate with me the most and effectively serve my highest and grandest desires.

[write4change]

Anything is possible.

There is so much at work in the greater scheme of things, from our current human vantage point we can only fathom so little, even if you consider yourself awakened. What we can do is fight the good fight and never give up.

For what it's worth at this critical juncture we seem to be at, no one can certainly tell. But in the greater scheme of things, proceeding courageously is the only thing that will ever yield genuine progress, individually and collectively.

Don't worry, have no fear (http://ascension101.com/en/ascension-tools/33-ascension-tools/105-fear-processing-exercise.html), just keep on keeping on.

Wnyg6veHDPA

I have never seen this movie and I thought I saw most well known scifi films. Can you tell me what it is and if it is available?

Now for the most important reply I can make, Christian. You are my visual of great hope and a big motivation for keep on keeping on. That you know so much and express it so well at 26 which is the age I began to ask the first real questions of myself and then only because my whole life stopped working speaks so well of you and hopefully your peer group.

Your presence here is always a joy to me and if you walked into the room you would see my eyes light up to it. Thank you for your particular brand of keeping on.

[Youniverse]

Thanks very much Fred Steeves, a great post from you as well. It all depends on how we look at it right? Your post reminded me of something Bashar said about the whole ascension thing. He said that we don't actually change the world we are in, we shift our vibration which in turn shifts us to another dimension that corresponds to that vibration. The rest of the folks that choose the vibration that keeps them where we were remain in that dimension until they are ready to ascend. I sorta get what bashar's saying but it still leaves me with a lot of questions.

[Youniverse]

I have seen the enemy humanalien and we are them, ha ha. My friend, goodness will prevail from the inside out. Just like Neo in "The Matrix" jumping into the agent, causing him to explode, we know that we are ONE, and the PTW are a part of our very own body. We will dismantle what no longer works. Surely you must agree that their will cannot outweigh God's will?

[Chester]

Anything is possible.

There is so much at work in the greater scheme of things, from our current human vantage point we can only fathom so little, even if you consider yourself awakened. What we can do is fight the good fight and never give up.

For what it's worth at this critical juncture we seem to be at, no one can certainly tell. But in the greater scheme of things, proceeding courageously is the only thing that will ever yield genuine progress, individually and collectively.

Don't worry, have no fear (http://ascension101.com/en/ascension-tools/33-ascension-tools/105-fear-processing-exercise.html), just keep on keeping on.

Wnyg6veHDPA

I have never seen this movie and I thought I saw most well known scifi films. Can you tell me what it is and if it is available?

Now for the most important reply I can make, Christian. You are my visual of great hope and a big motivation for keep on keeping on. That you know so much and express it so well at 26 which is the age I began to ask the first real questions of myself and then only because my whole life stopped working speaks so well of you and hopefully your peer group.

Your presence here is always a joy to me and if you walked into the room you would see my eyes light up to it. Thank you for your particular brand of keeping on.

The 5th Element

[Dennis Leahy]

Yes, they can.

Dennis

[Fred Steeves]

Thanks very much Fred Steeves, a great post from you as well. It all depends on how we look at it right? Your post reminded me of something Bashar said about the whole ascension thing. He said that we don't actually change the world we are in, we shift our vibration which in turn shifts us to another dimension that corresponds to that vibration. The rest of the folks that choose the vibration that keeps them where we were remain in that dimension until they are ready to ascend. I sorta get what bashar's saying but it still leaves me with a lot of questions.

Thank you Youniverse, and I'm glad you brought that up. I thought about delving into that aspect as well, but was worried about getting my head lost up me own arse trying to put it all in one post.(LOL) Yes, I've never really followed Bashar, but have come to that conclusion. That's why I may seem to be harping about the importance of looking in the mirror when casting blame for something, and also to find any and all answers. It's just that simple, thus making it so difficult to see.

Once someone discovers this the game is not over (yet), because the knowing must still be demonstrated by consistant proper thought and physical action, but at this point, the only one that can stop the person is themselves. Like Victor Hugo said: "No army can stop an idea whose time has come". We are truly the masters of our own reality, it's just a matter of remembering how to do it. That's when we move on to other things. Not because we have made the great escape, but because we have demonstrated self mastery, thus making the continuance of this exercise futile. We've done it, just like that depiction of Hermes standing upon the back of the once "undefeatable" Typhon.

This was never really a fair match to begin with, maybe it just takes being forced to our limits, and beyond, to discover that. Curiouser and curiouser...

19436

Cheers,
Fred

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

The question is; Do you really want to stop them? Think about it for a second.

I mean, they own everything. Pharmaceutical companies, oil and energy industries, food companies, consumer good companies, banks, the internet grid; Everything.

So, let´s say they´re suddenly stopped; like this; BOOM...There´s no more TPTB.

We wouldn´t have energy. Grocery shops would become empty quick. Your money will vanish with your bank account (money would be worthless anyway because the stock market would crash). You wont be able to buy medicine. There wont be even gas to run your emergency power generators and vehicles, no internet and phone grids anymore as well, hospitals will run out of supplies, governments will go down...Then chaos; people go crazy when they can´t have what they need (or what they think they need).

Let´s get realistic. Our society has grown completely dependent on them. How many of us are really prepared to live without each and every one of their products and services?

I´m not trying to burst your bubble here; Just raising an important point that can´t be ignored.

You could say that someone else will figure out a way to make a smooth transition, from this messed up TPTB dependent society to a better one. Well, good luck with that. There are so many variables, our whole civilization model is so attached to their products and services that I don´t think anyone could come up with a plan that enables a smooth transition to another model.

Except for a miracle, I mean, I really huge miracle, if TPTB are suddenly destroyed, the absolute majority of what we call society will go down with them. Only then what´s left of the people of this planet will be able to figure out a better solution; which, by the way, is no guaranteed to be better than this one.

Personally, if you ask me, I´d say let´s blow up these bastards now! I don´t even care about my own safety; I just want the human race to have another chance, maybe the last chance to grow up. However, I´m totally aware of the consequences.

With the tools and resources we currently have on the table now, there´s literally no way to simply press the restart button and make everything ok; like magic.

Allow me to ask you a question; How many of you, participating in this thread, have a bank account, drive a car, have an iphone and all sorts of gadgets, drink coca-cola? You enjoy this stuff right? But you want to kill the guys who makes them, right? What a psychological conflict we see here...

Be honest to yourselves...This is just like one of those messed up marriages where you hate your partner but still can´t picture yourself living without her/him...Only a million times more complex.

Expecting that we would simply stop TPTB and move on with our happy lives like nothing happened is completely unrealistic...

If you really want to stop them, be aware that you´ll have to make huge sacrifices. You can start by closing your bank accounts, stop driving a car and start producing your own food supply.

There are currently more than 5.000 members here on PA from every corner of this planet; If all of us started to act now, instead of just dreaming about a solution, it would already be a good start.

Cheers,

Raf.

[Maia Gabrial]

Therefore to have "faith" in a date, which may be out by (please put your own understanding of math here) can only dwell in a drama of fear or want for the exist door.

So true, simgaz. Everything has a moment when it happens. It's just that we're all having difficulty pinpointing that moment...! :becky:
I choose to believe something will happen or begin to happen on Dec 21st. Most ancient cultures have pinpointed that date as a day something outstanding happening. I also think that we have the power in our hands to affect this in our realities. It's just one of our divine abilities....

I've been "told" by higher beings that an amazing change is going to happen to us; so, I believe.... Others will believe what they feel is right for them. If they're skeptical; then, when nothing happens for them, then they shouldn't complain because the universe gave them what they wanted....

I think we all need to want and expect good things out of this date and time.The ancients believed it, so why can't we?

[RUSirius]

Except for a miracle,
Raf.

Ahh, the mircale that is one of my only consistent thoughts, in order of us (human-kind) to get out of this mess is a MIRACLE! It is, in my mind the only way, now I dont think I've ever witnessed a mircale so I can not say for sure that they happen, however I do believe they could happen. I agree with everything you said Raf, we are TOTALLY dependent with this system that has been created around us, and that we bought into, even if unknowingly. C'mon miracle!

I would also like to ad I find it interesting that many others have concluded that a miracle may be the only way.

[RMorgan]

Except for a miracle,
Raf.

Ahh, the mircale that is one of my only consistent thoughts, in order of us (human-kind) to get out of this mess is a MIRACLE! It is, in my mind the only way, now I dont think I've ever witnessed a mircale so I can not say for sure that they happen, however I do believe they could happen. I agree with everything you said Raf, we are TOTALLY dependent with this system that has been created around us, and that we bought into, even if unknowingly. C'mon miracle!

I would also like to ad I find it interesting that many others have concluded that a miracle may be the only way.

Yeah...Miracles are statistic aberrations that are very, very, VERY, unlikely to happen; They´re the closest thing to impossible.

If we want to make our life decisions based on the possibility of a miracle, the chances are gigantically huge that we´ll probably simply waste our whole lives waiting for it.

[blufire]

These type threads always confuse the hell out of me and leave me somewhat depressed . . . . for the life of me I cannot figure out how a few (in relation to global population) thinking, meditating, focusing intent, wishing, positive energy, higher vibrating, etc . . . . can change things. . . . .other than specifically in one’s own personal life and immediate surrounding. Especially something such as this that is centuries old and based on more actual complete ancient knowledge than we have.

I am always waiting to see this outcome of concentrated intent . . . so far I have not seen an example. I have seen it in individuals but not as a group manifestation on a global scale.

Also, if one or a group concentrates on directly effecting another group’s work or manifestations doesn’t that automatically put that group on the defensive or under the ‘umbrella’ of the other groups realm? Is this ‘intention’ also not formed from a negative ideal . . . . we don’t like this . . . I feel victimized . . . so we are gonna change it sort of attitude?

Ying and yang

Black and white

Positive and negative

One pole/pendulum swing to the other pole/pendulum swing

What about Balance? What about stepping out of the box we have willingly sat down in?

It is my very strong opinion that ‘we’ don’t even have a glimmer of understanding exactly what the controllers, tptb, illuminati . . . whoever . . . are doing. We always have the attitude that they are destroying not only our current world but our future world as well . . . . . .

I am no longer so sure about that philosophy. Specifically that their intent is to destroy and/or for only selfish outcomes. I speaking on an ultimate foundational level.

Also could someone please diagram for me the hierarchy of these evil ones that are in control of our fate?

I see a multilayered hierarchy and it seems to me that the ‘ones’ most hated and talked about are actually the ‘ones’ way down on the food chain so to speak. The ‘ones’ that are put out in the forefront and are highly visible . . . they have little actual control.

We can only change our future or timeline by first understanding their ultimate foundation and then creating our own based on our own knowledge and understanding and most of all loving determination that transcends generations.

[Mark]

Intention is a science ... and the mainstream is catching up. From 3:46


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVWaRNk-dR0&t=3m46s

[christian]

What is the definition of miracle? This is what Webster's (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/miracle) says:



1: an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs
2: an extremely outstanding or unusual event, thing, or accomplishment
3 Christian Science: a divinely natural phenomenon experienced humanly as the fulfillment of spiritual law

Commonly it is used to refer to a very unlikely event, like in point 1 and 2, but I find miracles are everywhere, in the tiniest and in the biggest thing, and there the explanation at point 3 kind of fits, the fulfillment of spiritual law.

Now this is from A Course in Miracles (http://www.deeptrancenow.com/exc_meaningofmiracles.htm), a channeled but quite nice book:



There is no order of difficulty in miracles. One is not "harder" or "bigger" than another. They are all the same. All expressions of love are maximal.

Miracles as such do not matter. The only thing that matters is their Source, which is far beyond evaluation.

Miracles occur naturally as expressions of love. The real miracle is the love that inspires them. In this sense everything that comes from love is a miracle.

The miracle is within you, will you live it out? :)

[RMorgan]

What is the definition of miracle? This is what Webster's (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/miracle) says:



1: an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs
2: an extremely outstanding or unusual event, thing, or accomplishment
3 Christian Science: a divinely natural phenomenon experienced humanly as the fulfillment of spiritual law

Commonly it is used to refer to a very unlikely event, like in point 1 and 2, but I find miracles are everywhere, in the tiniest and in the biggest thing, and there the explanation at point 3 kind of fits, the fulfillment of spiritual law.

Now this is from A Course in Miracles (http://www.deeptrancenow.com/exc_meaningofmiracles.htm), a channeled but quite nice book:



There is no order of difficulty in miracles. One is not "harder" or "bigger" than another. They are all the same. All expressions of love are maximal.

Miracles as such do not matter. The only thing that matters is their Source, which is far beyond evaluation.

Miracles occur naturally as expressions of love. The real miracle is the love that inspires them. In this sense everything that comes from love is a miracle.

The miracle is within you, will you live it out? :)


Hey Chris,

I like your definition of miracle; It´s very poetic.

So, do you believe that a miracle will happen to save us all from this mess, so we can smoothly make a transition to a better society?

Well, anything is possible, in my opinion. However, in the reign of possibilities, miracles are the smallest ones.

Cheers,

Raf.

[blufire]

Except for a miracle,
Raf.

Ahh, the mircale that is one of my only consistent thoughts, in order of us (human-kind) to get out of this mess is a MIRACLE! It is, in my mind the only way, now I dont think I've ever witnessed a mircale so I can not say for sure that they happen, however I do believe they could happen. I agree with everything you said Raf, we are TOTALLY dependent with this system that has been created around us, and that we bought into, even if unknowingly. C'mon miracle!

I would also like to ad I find it interesting that many others have concluded that a miracle may be the only way.

Yeah...Miracles are statistic aberrations that are very, very, VERY, unlikely to happen; They´re the closest thing to impossible.

If we want to make our life decisions based on the possibility of a miracle, the chances are gigantically huge that we´ll probably simply waste our whole lives waiting for it.


Thank you RMorgan . . . my thoughts exactly as well as your post #38.

I appreciate and acknowledge very much many’s desire to alter what they see as an injustice and evil.

But . . . . it ain’t gonna happen with waiting or expecting miracles . . . again this implies wanting someone else to fix it.

And could we maybe find another word other than ‘intention” or intent? This word has always felt weak to me. Mostly if this word comes up in general conversation it is under the pretense of that person ‘meant’ to do it but never got around to it . . . . as in “well his/her intentions were good". It feels too open ended to me and vaguely meaningless.

I also find it interesting that this ‘philosophy of intention’ has been batted about in the New Age realm only recently. Another possible subterfuge to undermine action?

How about some good ole fashioned ‘sweat equity? “Git ‘er done! No more intending and wishing upon a star!!

[Chester]

Hey folks,

The question is; Do you really want to stop them? Think about it for a second.

I mean, they own everything. Pharmaceutical companies, oil and energy industries, food companies, consumer good companies, banks, the internet grid; Everything.

So, let´s say they´re suddenly stopped; like this; BOOM...There´s no more TPTB.

We wouldn´t have energy. Grocery shops would become empty quick. Your money will vanish with your bank account (money would be worthless anyway because the stock market would crash). You wont be able to buy medicine. There wont be even gas to run your emergency power generators and vehicles, no internet and phone grids anymore as well, hospitals will run out of supplies, governments will go down...Then chaos; people go crazy when they can´t have what they need (or what they think they need).

Let´s get realistic. Our society has grown completely dependent on them. How many of us are really prepared to live without each and every one of their products and services?

I´m not trying to burst your bubble here; Just raising an important point that can´t be ignored.

You could say that someone else will figure out a way to make a smooth transition, from this messed up TPTB dependent society to a better one. Well, good luck with that. There are so many variables, our whole civilization model is so attached to their products and services that I don´t think anyone could come up with a plan that enables a smooth transition to another model.

Except for a miracle, I mean, I really huge miracle, if TPTB are suddenly destroyed, the absolute majority of what we call society will go down with them. Only then what´s left of the people of this planet will be able to figure out a better solution; which, by the way, is no guaranteed to be better than this one.

Personally, if you ask me, I´d say let´s blow up these bastards now! I don´t even care about my own safety; I just want the human race to have another chance, maybe the last chance to grow up. However, I´m totally aware of the consequences.

With the tools and resources we currently have on the table now, there´s literally no way to simply press the restart button and make everything ok; like magic.

Allow me to ask you a question; How many of you, participating in this thread, have a bank account, drive a car, have an iphone and all sorts of gadgets, drink coca-cola? You enjoy this stuff right? But you want to kill the guys who makes them, right? What a psychological conflict we see here...

Be honest to yourselves...This is just like one of those messed up marriages where you hate your partner but still can´t picture yourself living without her/him...Only a million times more complex.

Expecting that we would simply stop TPTB and move on with our happy lives like nothing happened is completely unrealistic...

If you really want to stop them, be aware that you´ll have to make huge sacrifices. You can start by closing your bank accounts, stop driving a car and start producing your own food supply.

There are currently more than 5.000 members here on PA from every corner of this planet; If all of us started to act now, instead of just dreaming about a solution, it would already be a good start.

Cheers,

Raf.

Perhaps the most honest, straight at you with the truth, post I have ever read on PA. Thank you Raf - it is a true dilemma. I will be taking this a bit further and soon.

[Mark]

And could we maybe find another word other than ‘intention” or intent? This word has always felt weak to me. Mostly if this word comes up in general conversation it is under the pretense of that person ‘meant’ to do it but never got around to it . . . . as in “well his/her intentions were good". It feels too open ended to me and vaguely meaningless.

I also find it interesting that this ‘philosophy of intention’ has been batted about in the New Age realm only recently. Another possible subterfuge to undermine action?

How about some good ole fashioned ‘sweat equity? “Git ‘er done! No more intending and wishing upon a star!!

You should watch the video. Then you will see that intention is far more than wishing upon a star.

[blufire]

Hey folks,

The question is; Do you really want to stop them? Think about it for a second.

I mean, they own everything. Pharmaceutical companies, oil and energy industries, food companies, consumer good companies, banks, the internet grid; Everything.

So, let´s say they´re suddenly stopped; like this; BOOM...There´s no more TPTB.

We wouldn´t have energy. Grocery shops would become empty quick. Your money will vanish with your bank account (money would be worthless anyway because the stock market would crash). You wont be able to buy medicine. There wont be even gas to run your emergency power generators and vehicles, no internet and phone grids anymore as well, hospitals will run out of supplies, governments will go down...Then chaos; people go crazy when they can´t have what they need (or what they think they need).

Let´s get realistic. Our society has grown completely dependent on them. How many of us are really prepared to live without each and every one of their products and services?

I´m not trying to burst your bubble here; Just raising an important point that can´t be ignored.

You could say that someone else will figure out a way to make a smooth transition, from this messed up TPTB dependent society to a better one. Well, good luck with that. There are so many variables, our whole civilization model is so attached to their products and services that I don´t think anyone could come up with a plan that enables a smooth transition to another model.

Except for a miracle, I mean, I really huge miracle, if TPTB are suddenly destroyed, the absolute majority of what we call society will go down with them. Only then what´s left of the people of this planet will be able to figure out a better solution; which, by the way, is no guaranteed to be better than this one.

Personally, if you ask me, I´d say let´s blow up these bastards now! I don´t even care about my own safety; I just want the human race to have another chance, maybe the last chance to grow up. However, I´m totally aware of the consequences.

With the tools and resources we currently have on the table now, there´s literally no way to simply press the restart button and make everything ok; like magic.

Allow me to ask you a question; How many of you, participating in this thread, have a bank account, drive a car, have an iphone and all sorts of gadgets, drink coca-cola? You enjoy this stuff right? But you want to kill the guys who makes them, right? What a psychological conflict we see here...

Be honest to yourselves...This is just like one of those messed up marriages where you hate your partner but still can´t picture yourself living without her/him...Only a million times more complex.

Expecting that we would simply stop TPTB and move on with our happy lives like nothing happened is completely unrealistic...

If you really want to stop them, be aware that you´ll have to make huge sacrifices. You can start by closing your bank accounts, stop driving a car and start producing your own food supply.

There are currently more than 5.000 members here on PA from every corner of this planet; If all of us started to act now, instead of just dreaming about a solution, it would already be a good start.

Cheers,

Raf.

Perhaps the most honest, straight at you with the truth, post I have ever read on PA. Thank you Raf - it is a true dilemma. I will be taking this a bit further and soon.

Oh My Sweet Grandmamma’s Bloomers!!!!

Oh Thank the Cosmic Heavens!!!

There is a possible glimmer of Hope!!! We got 3 (including me) . . . . that see a different true reality!!!

Are there any more out there???

I is doin’ a Happy Dance!!!

[christian]

So, do you believe that a miracle will happen to save us all from this mess, so we can smoothly make a transition to a better society?

Well, anything is possible, in my opinion. However, in the reign of possibilities, miracles are the smallest ones.

Hey Raf,

I don't waste a second waiting for divine intervention or something to that effect. But then again, I'm entirely open to it. This is out of the Course in Miracles as well:



Miracles arise from a miraculous state of mind, or a state of miracle-readiness.

It's like with many revelations or synchronicities that you and I and others on the forum and in general probably experienced. You first gotta be open to it, you won't manifest something into your life if you completly reject it out of hand.

Anyways, I concur with the idea that everything can be seen as a miracle. We tend to view at the stuff that is happening all the time around us as something trivial, but if someone from another planet or what-have-you would come here, he or she or it might be amazed, how the stuff that is happening here is actually possible. There is just an abundance of magic and miracles all around us in my eyes.

I don't know what will happen, I don't even know what's going on now, but what I really believe is that on every level my actions matter; physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.
And how that works is a miracle.


I choose to believe something will happen or begin to happen on Dec 21st. [...] I've been "told" by higher beings that an amazing change is going to happen to us; so, I believe.... Others will believe what they feel is right for them.

Reminds me of what "The Pleiadians" said through Barbara Marciniak in her Earth book. Paraphrased, it was like: We know how to give you impulses, but we trick you. If you believe everything we tell you is the absolute truth, you are our fools.

So whatever input inspires you to make the best possible contribution to the evolution of all-that-is is legitimate. If saying "a pink leprechaun plays bagpipes at the end of a rainbow" would make people lighten up and live love, I'd go right ahead.

Afterwards we then can still look back and laugh about how a wondrous meme helped to facilitate so much, while we enjoy our new found harmony.

[RUSirius]

These type threads always confuse the hell out of me and leave me somewhat depressed . . . . for the life of me I cannot figure out how a few (in relation to global population) thinking, meditating, focusing intent, wishing, positive energy, higher vibrating, etc . . . . can change things. . . . .other than specifically in one’s own personal life and immediate surrounding. Especially something such as this that is centuries old and based on more actual complete ancient knowledge than we have.

I am always waiting to see this outcome of concentrated intent . . . so far I have not seen an example. I have seen it in individuals but not as a group manifestation on a global scale.

Also, if one or a group concentrates on directly effecting another group’s work or manifestations doesn’t that automatically put that group on the defensive or under the ‘umbrella’ of the other groups realm? Is this ‘intention’ also not formed from a negative ideal . . . . we don’t like this . . . I feel victimized . . . so we are gonna change it sort of attitude?

Ying and yang

Black and white

Positive and negative

One pole/pendulum swing to the other pole/pendulum swing

What about Balance? What about stepping out of the box we have willingly sat down in?

It is my very strong opinion that ‘we’ don’t even have a glimmer of understanding exactly what the controllers, tptb, illuminati . . . whoever . . . are doing. We always have the attitude that they are destroying not only our current world but our future world as well . . . . . .

I am no longer so sure about that philosophy. Specifically that their intent is to destroy and/or for only selfish outcomes. I speaking on an ultimate foundational level.

Also could someone please diagram for me the hierarchy of these evil ones that are in control of our fate?

I see a multilayered hierarchy and it seems to me that the ‘ones’ most hated and talked about are actually the ‘ones’ way down on the food chain so to speak. The ‘ones’ that are put out in the forefront and are highly visible . . . they have little actual control.

We can only change our future or timeline by first understanding their ultimate foundation and then creating our own based on our own knowledge and understanding and most of all loving determination that transcends generations.

Yes, this topic can be very frustrating, especially when you are a person who is hopeful for great things for this planet. I think the masses will not wake up, I have no idea what will happen, sometimes an effective medicine, although not a recomended practice is banging ones head against the wall. This may not however produce desired results, depending on what you are hoping for.

[gooty64]

Same results.....
if 10,000 people stay home and meditate and think happy vibrations
as when
10,000 move rural and live off the land

= remotely minimal change while the PTB marches forward.

[christian]

It's both valuable and best combined.

"Some quit due to slow progress, never grasping the fact that slow progress.. is progress."

"It is the greatest of all mistakes to do nothing because you can only do little. Do what you can."

[RUSirius]

On a side note, when people talk about TPTB and use the term TPTW, I wont say this frustrates me, I just chalk that up to maybe they know something I don't, which is quite probable, just not sure if they are correct. I can not wait to hopefully use that term someday. Again I just hope they know something I don't.

[Wind]

When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it--always.

- Gandhi

I love that quote.

[Mark]

Here is a shorter and more direct discussion about the topic. Intent, meditation, concentrated energy work, in other words. Has an effect.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc2uhJNiIhE

[gooty64]

TPTWTB = the power that were that be.

I think ref used this somewhere and I was like wtf, until i translated it and i realised it has a nice ring to it and many practical purposes----
Let's make it STICK, TPTWTB!

ps, now let's hope that David Wilcock won't sue us for using and perverting his original trademarked and self-proclaimed coined term TPTW.


On a side note, when people talk about TPTB and use the term TPTW, I wont say this frustrates me, I just chalk that up to maybe they know something I don't, which is quite probable, just not sure if they are correct. I can not wait to hopefully use that term someday. Again I just hope they know something I don't.

[RUSirius]

TPTABMSWB=The powers that are but maybe someday wont be
Just an idea

[RMorgan]

When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it--always.

- Gandhi

I love that quote.

This is a very pertinent sentence, my friend.

It talks about the most crucial moment which happens cyclically in the history of the human race.

However, some empires fall and are replaced for better ones; Other fall just to give place to something worse.

This is the exact core of the problem, which is making a smooth transition from the current model to a better one. This transition moment is where monsters really show up their claws.

Let´s say we remove TPTB and their minions from power; We arrest all of them.

If we want to make a smooth transition, without causing the extreme suffering of the huge majority of people, we need to find thousands of incorruptible professionals to temporarily take care of their business, so we can at least keep the world´s basic resources running smoothly while we come up with definitive better solutions, which certainly would take some time.

The question is; Is it really possible to find thousands of really honest, competent, highly educated incorruptible persons, totally capable of flawless running the system´s most delicate structure?

Honestly, we all know that people change when faced with the opportunity to assume a position of extreme power. History shows it very clearly.

We´re living an extreme dilemma here. There´s no way to radically change the power structure without at least ruining the stock markets. Maybe it´s necessary, but if the stock markets really broke right now, the world would become unimaginably chaotic. People would starve to death all over the world, which may include you and your family.

The fact is that we´re hostages of an incredibly complex and delicate system. To make things worse, most people are suffering from Stockholm syndrome, which makes them fall in love with their own captors.

And, to make things even worse, we´re not only hostages to a complex system suffering from Stockholm syndrome; We have developed a symbiotic relationship with every single aspect of the system´s structure, in a way that we, the human race, can´t currently live without the resources that the system provides us; and the system can´t live without the resources that we provide it.

Things change...eventually. However, the complexity appears when we try to come up with plans to make sure things will definitively change for the best.

Right now, we have zero control about the current administration of this system. What makes you think that, in case of a change, we would suddenly gain control?

There´s too many people in the world. The control of our society will always remain in the hands of a small selected group of people and there´s absolutely no guarantee that, even if they were all originally good and honest people, they wont be seduced by power...

Things are complex...There are incredibly complex practical problems to be solved that go way beyond wishful thinking.

Based on the above reasoning; I know things will eventually change; things always change eventually.

However, unless a miracle happens, I´m 99% sure that it wont be a smooth process, which means that a lot of people will suffer the ultimate consequences.

I can´t be sure that after the chaotic period, the new implemented system will be better or worse than the current one. There´s no guarantee about that.

Raf.

[RUSirius]

When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it--always.

- Gandhi

I love that quote.

This is a very pertinent sentence, my friend.

It talks about the most crucial moment which happens cyclically in the history of the human race.

However, some empires fall and are replaced for better ones; Other fall just to give place to something worse.

This is the exact core of the problem, which is making a smooth transition from the current model to a better one. This transition moment is where monsters really show up their claws.

Let´s say we remove TPTB and their minions from power; We arrest all of them.

If we want to make a smooth transition, without causing the extreme suffering of the huge majority of people, we need to find thousands of incorruptible professionals to temporarily take care of their business, so we can at least keep the world´s basic resources running smoothly while we come up with definitive better solutions, which certainly would take some time.

The question is; Is it really possible to find thousands of really honest, competent, highly educated incorruptible persons, totally capable of flawless running the system´s most delicate structure?

Honestly, we all know that people change when faced with the opportunity to assume a position of extreme power. History shows it very clearly.

We´re living an extreme dilemma here. There´s no way to radically change the power structure without at least ruining the stock markets. Maybe it´s necessary, but if the stock markets really broke right now, the world would become unimaginably chaotic. People would starve to death all over the world, which may include you and your family.

The fact is that we´re hostages of an incredibly complex and delicate system. To make things worse, most people are suffering from Stockholm syndrome, which makes them fall in love with their own captors.

And, to make things even worse, we´re not only hostages to a complex system suffering from Stockholm syndrome; We have developed a symbiotic relationship with every single aspect of the system´s structure, in a way that we, the human race, can´t currently live without the resources that the system provides us; and the system can´t live without the resources that we provide it.

Things change...eventually. However, the complexity appears when we try to come up with plans to make sure things will definitively change for the best.

Right now, we have zero control about the current administration the this system. What makes you think that, in case of a change, we would suddenly gain control?

There´s too many people in the world. The control of our society will always remain in the hands of a small selected group of people and there´s absolutely no guarantee that, even if they were all originally good and honest people, they wont be seduced by power...

Things are complex...There are incredibly complex practical problems to be solved that go way beyond wishful thinking.

Raf.

Chaos or miracle, not sure if there is a third options, probably though.

[RMorgan]

Chaos or miracle, not sure if there is a third options, probably though.

Yes, there is. There´s the possibility that we actually may solve the problem.

I wouldn´t be surprised if a group made of the smartest people in the world is secretly working on it in a basement somewhere.

It´s all about probabilities and, sometimes, you get lucky, just like when someone wins the lottery.

If we get really really lucky, we will jump from this system to a better one very softly.

However, personally, I don´t like to take luckiness for granted. I take it as a bonus, while I give my best to make things better.

[MorningSong]

I often despair for the way our civilization is being herded... what future will our grandchildren witness at this current pace?

I often have days filled will an anxious heartthrobbing sense of urgency to DO something, but I don't know what it is I am called to do.

I try to keep my ducks in a row, but there's always some new eddy that pulls them here and there....that keeps me on my toes.

Will the PTB/W ever be brought to see things from my/our reality and see that my/our agenda (just to live a decent, honest, healthy human experience) has a right to exist?

I've been waiting for a CHANGE for many many years..... I hope it comes swifty and soon!

TAyhnyrbCKw

[RUSirius]

Chaos or miracle, not sure if there is a third options, probably though.

Yes, there is. There´s the possibility that we actually may solve the problem.

I wouldn´t be surprised if a group made of the smartest people in the world is secretly working on it in a basement somewhere.

It´s all about probabilities and, sometimes, you get lucky, just like when someone wins the lottery.

If we get really really lucky, we will jump from this system to a better one very softly.

Yes, definite possible third option, synchronistic events seem to happen quite often just when there seem to be no other way out. Now that I have experienced in my own life before.

[enfoldedblue]

To me it is about changing the collective unconscious for it is there that we are really being held captive. I believe the PTW know that this is the potent programming field of humanity...which is why they pump us with so much fear. It's all about keeping us from looking within...distract distrat distract...keep focusing outside.

So in this way each person who goes within and heals their inner world, (moves through the fear and is able to learn to fully love themselves--(return to wholeness)), actually affects the whole collective unconscious. As slowly but surely more and more people do this the collective unconscious will change and as (I believe) this is the programming center for reality... the nature of our reality will reflect these changes.

Who knows from the surface perspective this may appear as a miracle.

[christian]

The question is; Is it really possible to find thousands of really honest, competent, highly educated incorruptible persons, totally capable of flawless running the system´s most delicate structure?

I think an essential point is to overcome the idea that a system has to be driven by a handful of people when compared to the world population. Ron Paul and other Libertarians clearly point into the direction that the power and influence of the state has to decrease dramatically and the individual freedom to self-responsibly live has to increase drastically.

Service to self / Control over others >> Service to others / Control over self

Any genuine new "leader" would be recognized by doing just that, cutting his own powers to a bare minimum, merely being a mediator, and vividly encouraging the people to empower themselves, to organize, to create, and to choose! Only when the awareness and vigilance of individuals in society is encouraged and cultivated, a society can truly thrive.

It's really the transition to an intuitive, yet rational society. One where individual freedom and responsibility is emphasized as the backbone of society. It's hard and getting there is a struggle, but of all the systems, -isms, and ideologies, it's the only thing that can really work out, in my opinion. So we might as well go for it. Try it and you can loose, don't try and you have already lost.

Now the transition to such a state may well [tongue in cheek] not be seamless. But I don't really think about all the details of what could happen in that regard beforehand, it's like virtually impossible to figure this out, like having a bazillion things to be converted through the eye of a needle, so all I can do is assist the desired transition continually and wholeheartedly. Whatever happens happens.

[MorningSong]

I try to keep thinking that....

eqqWfsIxbPo

[Chester]

When I read stories like this...

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/26/belief-blogs-morning-speed-read-for-monday-november-26/


The Guardian: Jesus wept … oh, it's bad plumbing. Indian rationalist targets 'miracles'

When water started trickling down a statue of Jesus Christ at a Catholic church in Mumbai earlier this year, locals were quick to declare a miracle. Some began collecting the holy water and the Church of Our Lady of Velankanni began to promote it as a site of pilgrimage. So when Sanal Edamaruku arrived and established that this was not holy water so much as holey plumbing, the backlash was severe. The renowned rationalist was accused of blasphemy, charged with offenses that carry a three-year prison sentence and eventually, after receiving death threats, had to seek exile in Finland.

I can sometimes actually understand how a group within humanity could just give up on it all and seek to create a separate civilization.

Yes, there's far more to it than this - but sometimes I can actually understand (and thus avoid judgment altogether). Now... the satanism thing is a bit tricky to overlook, but, hey... I am taking baby steps at least.

[RMorgan]

The question is; Is it really possible to find thousands of really honest, competent, highly educated incorruptible persons, totally capable of flawless running the system´s most delicate structure?

I think an essential point is to overcome the idea that a system has to be driven by a handful of people when compared to the world population. Ron Paul and other Libertarians clearly point into the direction that the power and influence of the state has to decrease dramatically and the individual freedom to self-responsibly live has to increase drastically.

Service to self / Control over others >> Service to others / Control over self

Any genuine new "leader" would be recognized by doing just that, cutting his own powers to a bare minimum, merely being a mediator, and vividly encouraging the people to empower themselves, to organize, to create, and to choose! Only when the awareness and vigilance of individuals in society is encouraged and cultivated, a society can truly thrive.

It's really the transition to an intuitive, yet rational society. One where individual freedom and responsibility is emphasized as the backbone of society. It's hard and getting there is a struggle, but of all the systems, -isms, and ideologies, it's the only thing that can really work out, in my opinion. So we might as well go for it. Try it and you can loose, don't try and you have already lost.

Now the transition to such a state may well [tongue in cheek] not be seamless. But I don't really think about all the details of what could happen in that regard beforehand, it's like virtually impossible to figure this out, like having a bazillion things to be converted through the eye of a needle, so all I can do is assist the desired transition continually and wholeheartedly. Whatever happens happens.

Hey Chris,

Yes, ideally, we wouldn´t even need any government, leaders or constitutions.

All we need is to live under only a single rule: Treat others the way you´d like others to treat you; The rule of mutual respect.

However, with our current educational standards, our current general mindset, this is just not practical; Take the police out of the streets for a few days and see what happens (It wont be pretty).

It would take decades to re-educated people in order for such thing to work; Meanwhile, we would need a select group of people to make the major decisions and to operate the system´s most crucial gears;There´s no way out of it.

So, in my opinion, even if we globally decided to change systems right now, we would have to live under this system for a few years, maybe more than a decade, in order to make a sustainable transition; This sends us back to the issues discussed on my previous posts (#38 and #59).

Anyway, let´s keep talking about this. Maybe we can come up with some good ideas together.

Cheers,

Raf.

[Chester]

So, do you believe that a miracle will happen to save us all from this mess, so we can smoothly make a transition to a better society?

Well, anything is possible, in my opinion. However, in the reign of possibilities, miracles are the smallest ones.

Hey Raf,

I don't waste a second waiting for divine intervention or something to that effect. But then again, I'm entirely open to it. This is out of the Course in Miracles as well:



Miracles arise from a miraculous state of mind, or a state of miracle-readiness.

It's like with many revelations or synchronicities that you and I and others on the forum and in general probably experienced. You first gotta be open to it, you won't manifest something into your life if you completly reject it out of hand.

Anyways, I concur with the idea that everything can be seen as a miracle. We tend to view at the stuff that is happening all the time around us as something trivial, but if someone from another planet or what-have-you would come here, he or she or it might be amazed, how the stuff that is happening here is actually possible. There is just an abundance of magic and miracles all around us in my eyes.

I don't know what will happen, I don't even know what's going on now, but what I really believe is that on every level my actions matter; physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.
And how that works is a miracle.


I choose to believe something will happen or begin to happen on Dec 21st. [...] I've been "told" by higher beings that an amazing change is going to happen to us; so, I believe.... Others will believe what they feel is right for them.

Reminds me of what "The Pleiadians" said through Barbara Marciniak in her Earth book. Paraphrased, it was like: We know how to give you impulses, but we trick you. If you believe everything we tell you is the absolute truth, you are our fools.

So whatever input inspires you to make the best possible contribution to the evolution of all-that-is is legitimate. If saying "a pink leprechaun plays bagpipes at the end of a rainbow" would make people lighten up and live love, I'd go right ahead.

Afterwards we then can still look back and laugh about how a wondrous meme helped to facilitate so much, while we enjoy our new found harmony.

Few will believe this post, but here goes anyways.

I have experienced hundreds of "miracles." I have actually discovered how to generate the best form of miracle I know which is known by many names but dubbed as "synchronicity" by Carl Jung.

It is my opinion that since all sorts of occurrences in the past that had been viewed then as "miracles" are now easily explained thus why is it not possible, perhaps even probable, that science would be able to one day explain what we might label a miracle today?

What I discovered was that I didn't need science to explain things to me when I have discovered how to generate what is not currently explained by mainstream science. What I do and the results I achieve are all I needed to realize I was on the right track.

Because I have been at practice for years now in the art of creating the fertile ground from which clear, "miraculous" synchronicities arise (and the best part about this form of miracle is that it appears to come from some objective, third party as opposed to the types of miracles that appear to be "performed" by an individual).... I am able to understand and accept why it might appear to be miraculous.

It feels to me like something natural for a Spirit being to be able to do and the more I do this, the less miraculous it seems to be. I believe this is how "faith healers" feel about what they do as well.

Anyways, I did my usual take a few hundred words to say what can be said in a few which is...

What appears to be a miracle today, is understood and even explainable soon (tomorrow).

I have no doubt we can create a dramatic, what may appear to be miraculous, change and do so in the blink of an eye.

I suggest we not waste this upcoming opportunity of focusing our attention upon positive change where also, celestial alignments may assist in ensuring the ground is indeed most fertile such that the degree of positive change we experience can be maximized.

[christian]

Yes, ideally, we wouldn´t even need any government, leaders or constitutions.

All we need is to live under only a single rule: Treat others the way you´d like others to treat you; The rule of mutual respect.

However, with our current educational standards, our current general mindset, this is just not practical; Take the police out of the streets for a few days and see what happens (It wont be pretty).

It would take decades to re-educated people in order for such thing to work; Meanwhile, we would need a select group of people to make the major decisions and to operate the system´s most crucial gears;There´s no way out of it.

So, in my opinion, even if we globally decided to change systems right now, we would have to live under this system for a few years, maybe more than a decade, in order to make a sustainable transition.

That argument "without the police it wouldn't look pretty" is quite common. But when you turn it around: Is it pretty with the police on the street? Same for the governments and institutions. We're run by the mafia. How much worse could it get?

Some of today's cops etc. might be useful, but the statistics clearly show that crime rates go down when everyone is free to have a gun and defend himself. I think that's the way. The ability to freely carry a gun separates a free man from a slave, among other things.

I'm intruiged by a point I read on a Libertarian site:



Many fall victim to the conceptual mistake that people can learn self-responsibility while being infantilized (by the authorities). You can only learn self-responsibility when you have it. It's chance and a risk at the same time.

Of course it doesn't seem very practical at the moment, but neither does our current system. No matter what we do, there will be suffering. As there is no way to completly avoid that for everybody, I say let's just get it on, this thing with individual freedom, as good as we can.

But you cannot force people, not even into freedom and self-responsibility. So having icons to "lead" and inspire people seems like a realistic prospect. I really hope that such genuine "leaders" will emerge and that people will recognize them, "the teacher appears when the student is ready."

I really think the main task of such persons is to inspire, i.e. helping people to tap into their own divine potential, and mediate, i.e. understanding the wishes and needs of people and thus helping them to optimize communication and organisation.

[Mitm]

According to the Anastasia material from "The Ringing Cedars", there are 5 Priests and 1 Head priest which have been re-incarnating for over 10,000yrs now. Anastasia's grandfather is one of these priests, though he is on the side of the 'forces of light'. In Book 6 or 7, there is a telepathic conversation b/w Anastasias g'father and the head priest, and this is when the head priest realises all that he has caused, the 'Monster' system he has created, and he vows to leave Anastasia to transport us all 'across the dark forces window of time', and to use her methods to help her, by creating his own 'space of love' 1 hectare of Land to claim for himself and his family... So that means its only the zionist minions which are left propping up the 'monster system' which is strangling our energy day by day... Anastasia also mentions that God's judgement will come, but it seems we have the choice to create our own 'garden paradises' OR to live in the 'hell' of the system...

[Anchor]

Are there any more out there???

Yes, there is one here.

My idealized changes in the world, that is, changes which restore increased measures of peace and harmony in all things require a process of transition, restoration and healing that is going to take work and time and is not going to happen in the blink of an eye.

I do want tyranny to end, but in a way that is consistent with the highest and best good for all of us, including the mother planet.

[RMorgan]

But you cannot force people, not even into freedom and self-responsibility. So having icons to "lead" and inspire people seems like a realistic prospect. I really hope that such genuine "leaders" will emerge and that people will recognize them, "the teacher appears when the student is ready."


I also think we need leaders, genuine ones.

However, first these potential good leaders have to make their way through a very corrupt territory; Just a few of them can do it and remain ethically unharmed, unfortunately.

Then, this leader would have to "dance the dance" to have himself elected.

Recently, we saw something like this happen to Ron Paul. I believe he´s a genuine good man. Unfortunately, he didn´t make it to the final election. People from the USA were really close to elect a good man for president, but I believe the possibility of good guys making it to the top in our current political scenario is very low, given the circumstances.

I had the opportunity to see a genuinely good leader become a corrupt pig here in Brazil; Our beloved ex-president, Lula. When he first was elected, he was a really good man, a legit leader. When he left, eight years later, he also left behind one of the biggest corruption scandals in Brazilian history. He´s now one of the 200 richest men in the world according to Forbes Magazine.

[Mark]

In ancient Egypt, there were no police (http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/law_and_order/police.htm):


If in the earliest historical times there were people whose duty it was to ensure the safety of the citizens and their property, very little is known about them. A well-organized police force seems not to have existed.

The article goes on to talk about market and temple guards and watchmen, and border patrols along the frontiers of the Empire, but as far as police forces as we know them, they seem not to have existed. Many years ago when I was deep into study of ancient African societies, I remember noting also through reading the work of seminal writers such as Cheikh Anta Diop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheikh_Anta_Diop) and others, they spoke of how the social structure of the villages and cities was of such a nature that crime as we experience it was virtually unknown. Thievery, psychopathy leading to exploitation and murder, mental instability and emotional/psychic disfunction were not pandemic as they are today and the primary enforcer of the rule of law in these societies was quite simple.

Shame.

In societies that are inclusive rather than exclusive, where relative homogenity exists - if not physically than socially - where social norms, religious beliefs, and social standing are based upon traditional systems and shared worldviews, family is the basis of social aggregation. Extended family is generally vast and you practically are related to many people in your immediate environment. Shame as an enforcer of social equilibrium is a vital force in upholding the unspoken rules and spoken laws of society. Being shamed in your family or publically could lead to being outcast from your society, if the crime was horrendous enough in light of the social customs and mores of the culture.

In another thread here in the forum about the heart and consciousness (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52441-Hearts-Have-Their-Own-Brain-And-Consciousness) there is a scientifically-based rationale presented forwarding the radical theory that groups formed on heart-resonance and unity-based principles grounded in love and commonality of purpose are held together by the positive emanations of hearts in sync, where the reproduction of the societal standards occurs holographically/fractally in every member of the collective through a form of vibratory sharing based in a collective field of intention.

It is difficult for us to conceive of such, as divided and fractious as our communications and ideas sometimes are, reinforced by our lived experience, more or less inclusive or exclusive in nature, depending upon who and where we are.

But, it is possible.

[RMorgan]

In ancient Egypt, there were no police (http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/law_and_order/police.htm):

Well, I wouldn´t want to live in Ancient Egypt. They didn´t have much of a police force, just like many ancient cultures, but they did have armed guards (http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/law_and_order/index.html) and were subjected to men who called themselves gods.

Also, when you punish even your simplest crimes with extreme penalties, like having one or both of hands cut for robing an apple (sometimes even death) you think a hundred times before committing even the smallest crime. This might be effective for preventing some criminal activities, but it doesn´t promote real spiritual and social evolution, of course.

Anyway, either you were a slave (official slave) or not. So, they weren´t quite an example of a perfect society, far from it.

The key to harmonic social welfare is equality. As long as we have extremely rich people and extremely poor people we will have crime and will need the police, specially in today´s society, which basically brainwashes everyone to think that "the more they have, the better they are".

Countries like Iceland, which have literally a statistical zero homicide rate show this very well. Well educated people with an extreme high level of social equality.

On the other hand, some Muslin countries have extremely low crime rates, but not because of equality and education, but because of the brutal crime punishment.

So, basically, we can avoid crimes ( and the necessity of police) either by extreme punishment or by achieving high educational standards and social equality; I´d rather the second one.

[christian]

The equality argument is dangerous, I think. You cannot make people equal, this has been tried and always ends in a desaster. But you can agree on equal fundamental rights for everybody.

I still think the best police is an aware and well-armed public. Thus you can prevent psychopaths from making everyone slaves.



I also think we need leaders, genuine ones.

However, first these potential good leaders have to make their way through a very corrupt territory; Just a few of them can do it and remain ethically unharmed, unfortunately.

Then, this leader would have to "dance the dance" to have himself elected.

I think there is a potential of genuine people. Actually I think there is an entire army of light-workers on the planet. Each one with his own unique talents and not everyone is really the type for this, but overall the awakening is surely making its way.

And people in general are getting sick and tired of political masquerading and rhethoric and all the rest. Ron Paul didn't really do that. And after decades, he motivated a lot of people to take action, he started a sustained movement that is dynamic and growing. Today you don't necessarily need all the "traditional campaigning," all you need is the population recognizing a decent cause and a free internet to spread the word. Jesse Ventura became governeur by campaigning mostly online.

I really think the best way for new leaders to approach this is by being simple and upfront and by leaving behind preemptive obedience to the mechanisms of the system. Because those mechanisms are falling apart and we shouldn't really apply life-extending measures. Because creating new values, a new paradigm, is what this is all about, right? So I think it's implementing by being a living example.

Virtually everything about the people who promote real solutions must necessarily stand out against the old ways. I think it's really the time for bold actions. Not reckless, but assertive. The situation is serious and we are many years into the truth movement and the awakening gaining momentum. The people involved in this are the most dynamic people out there. This is the trend for the future. I feel that determined and courageous steps are needed.

Now that's really a gut-thing, that's how I feel about it.

But you can also see it in the rhethoric and in what's happening. Ron Paul virtually calls for secession, Alex Jones as well. In Germany, Prof. Schachtschneider, a very renowned critic of the current German system just emphasized the right to forcefully resist against the EU-takeover. Southern Europe is up in arms, figuratively. And so much more, you know the picture. Now look at the trend. It's clear that we are in an unprecedented situation. If you ask me, it's the time to go all-in. As David Icke would say, to go by the heart that just asks "what is right" and not by the mind that says "what are the consquences if I do that," implying fear of what could happen to you or what might go wrong.

[Mark]

Also, when you punish even your simplest crimes with extreme penalties, like having one or both of hands cut for robing an apple (sometimes even death) you think a hundred times before committing even the smallest crime. This might be effective for preventing some criminal activities, but it doesn´t promote real spiritual and social evolution, of course.

Sounds like you're talking about modern Egypt and Muslim Sharia Law here.

Ancient Egypt was not under Sharia Law. The severing of hands, as this article attests (http://www.livescience.com/22267-severed-hands-ancient-egypt-palace.html), had to do with warfare with external enemies and was, in addition, under the rule of the Hyksos, who were Southeast Asian conquerors of Egypt and not indigenous, at that time, to the region.

Ancient Egypt was one of the most spiritual societies that the Earth has ever seen. Their living under "gods" is demonstrably no different from the right of divine rule enjoyed by the European monarchs since time immemorial. It's a human trend, it occurs all around the world in every single culture that the leaders are associated with the Divine principle. If they were actually so is a matter for debate that has seen expression on this forum in many different veins and many different threads and not the topic of discussion in this one.

The point is that it is possible to live in a peaceful society, and people have done it, with no police forces.

[RMorgan]

Also, when you punish even your simplest crimes with extreme penalties, like having one or both of hands cut for robing an apple (sometimes even death) you think a hundred times before committing even the smallest crime. This might be effective for preventing some criminal activities, but it doesn´t promote real spiritual and social evolution, of course.
Sounds like you're talking about modern Egypt and Muslim Sharia Law here.


Hey my friend,

Of course I´m not talking about Shariah law; Ancient Egyptians weren´t Muslims.

I´ve read about ancient Egypt´s punishments before, during my researches, but you can collect part of the information from the same website (http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/law_and_order/index.html) you´ve linked in your previous post:

"Other crimes were punished with restitution of stolen property, fines, confiscation, imprisonment, forced labour, beatings, mutilation, banishment, or death."

They weren´t peaceful either.

Anyway, I get your point and I also think it´s possible to live in a peaceful way without being forced into a false peaceful position by the fear of punishment.

Cheers,

Raf.

[Mark]

Granted, Raf, it's always good to engage in discussion with you. But again, those were the Hyksos. Here is the deeper point, the point of this thread, as recounted in this article on Person and Community in African Thought (http://www.crvp.org/book/Series02/II-1/chapter_v.htm):


According to Senghor, "Negro-African society puts more stress on the group than on the individuals, more on solidarity than on the activity and needs of the individual, more on the communion of persons than on their autonomy. Ours is a community society."(30) Kenyatta made the following observation with regard to the traditional life in Kenya: "According to Gikuyu ways of thinking, nobody is an isolated individual. Or rather, his uniqueness is a secondary fact about him; first and foremost he is several people's relative and several people's contemporary."(31) Elsewhere he observed that "Individualism and self-seeking were ruled out. . . . The personal pronoun `I' was used very rarely in public assemblies. The spirit of collectivism was (so) much ingrained in the mind of the people."(32) The communitarian ethos of the African culture is also echoed in the works of some African novelists. Clearly, then, the African social structures with its underlying socio-ethical philosophy, was and very much still is, communitarian.

The evolution of Egypt of the Lower Nile Delta is an extension of Upper Egypt, which scholars have indisputably traced as the origin diffusional pathway of culture and practices. This region is to the South, colloquially know as Nubia now, extending into the Sudan and Uganda, and the headwaters of the Nile river. The "religiosity" and "communal" nature of African society is based upon the family, upon the group rather than the individual, bringing me again to the importance that shame plays in the reproduction of societal justice in the face of deviation from the norm, or the law-abiding imperative ingrained in each individual from childhood on. This, also, is a matter of common knowledge in research communities concerned with societal evolution as well as the geographic spatialization of humanistic mores.

In communal societies, conformity is of necessity the primary social mechanism concerned with rule and law enforcement. Across the continent of Africa, this example holds true for ancient societies leading up to the Maafa/Transatlantic Slave Trade and increasing socialization with European trade partners and nominal conquerors. As you mentioned, equality of outcome is generative of social cohesion, but the pyramidal structure of society when wealth is accumulated by the Elites and income inequality becomes ingrained and potentially divisive the more these structures take hold and become institutionalized, leads to the devolution and fragmentation of society, a reality we are all well familiar with.

The proximity of Ancient Egypt to Southwest Asia, the continuing influx of foreigners from about 2,000BCE up to the Anno Domini era is one of confusion, disruption and deconstruction, whereby the ancient structures that had previously defined and exemplified the culture were gradually stripped away and corrupted through the natural processes of invasion and succession.

But the example set by said societies is very real and quite pervasive and was expressed in North and South America with the indigenous cultures native to this continent. Police forces as we know them did not exist here, either. These societies displayed the same tendencies as the African societies, being communal in nature and living under the reign of the "gods" and "goddesses". The rules and laws promising punishment for deviation say nothing as to the frequency of employment of these punishments and we cannot know for sure how many of those we might deem criminals were punished or banished for their crimes against either individuals or societies. But the fact that these societies existed for thousands of years in relative internal peace and stability is a statement as to their different mental and perhaps spiritual orientation than modern societies.

The cohesion of society was based upon mutual beneficence and communal living. It seems to be the natural state of humanity to be in sync with each other and with their communities. Warfare between different societies in the ancient world is another matter altogether.

[Kiforall]

Larry Hagman apparently said an interesting thing before he died.

"That all politicians should take LSD"

Imagine the bad trip TPTW would have lol.

Now that might stop them, they'd be flinging themselves off roofs right left and centre.

Zoe x

[RMorgan]

Hey Rahkyt,

It´s always amazing to have the opportunity to talk with people like you and so many others here at PA. There are great minds here!

Well, personally, I´d rather avoid looking to ancient civilizations with a nostalgic look. Sure, they´ve had achieved great things and were more advanced than us in certain aspects.

However, things are very different right now. We could learn from their social behavior indeed, but most of it is not very applicable to the modern man.

I´ve lived a couple of months among Brazilian´s indigenous tribes, the Kuikuro and Kalapálo, which are, unfortunately, among the few tribes which actually preserved their traditions and knowledge. They are genuinely amazing and peaceful warriors, but they suffer from the same problem that we do; They like things.

Before the Portuguese colonization, they did´t have much; All they had was directly taken from the forest. So, they didn´t have anything to awake their greed.

After the Portuguese had established contact with them, they started trading their gold for cheap things like mirrors and this sort of stuff. I wonder if it´s in the human nature, I mean, to be easily seduced by the idea of possessing things...

Of course, their society model is completely different. They enjoy having things, but their individual status is not defined by amount of stuff a person may have; differently than us.

This is the biggest problem of capitalism, in my opinion, by the way. It has become much more than a political system; It´s almost like a religion. If you don´t have a lot of things you´re a loser, if you really feel like a loser, you´ll do whatever it takes to become a "winner", and this includes all sorts of crimes.

Anyway, these guys, the indigenous, their system worked pretty well in controlled small societies. A big part of the Brazilian´s indigenous tribes had contraceptive methods to avoid having more people than they could actually handle, to avoid becoming unsustainable. Some of these tribes even killed babies, as a last resource. They´d even made up legends, to make the killing of babies more acceptable.

My point is, that they know somehow that their social model could only work in small communities. Otherwise, they were plagued by diseases (caused by their expansion into the forest) and threatened by the lack of resources (the immediate surroundings of the forest can only offer resources to a certain number of people).

So, in my opinion, their social organization is not applicable to modern society, which is global and huge. So many many things are different now.

Of course, our society is not bad as a whole; We have achieved many things, incredible things, most things than all officially know ancient societies together; Advanced medicine, instant communication, advanced transportation, advanced agricultural techniques, advanced engineering....Well, we´re pretty much advanced in every aspect, except for the damned political/economical aspect...

I think we should look at our future without dishonoring our ancestors, but without trying to be like them because, in my opinion, it wouldn´t work.

The Mayans, the Egyptians, they have achieved great things for their time, but as far as we have solid evidence, we have achieved much more technologically and scientifically. If only we could use all that we have achieved to also achieve an advanced spirituality, then we would become the ultimate society and would evolve exponentially.

As always, the problem is that we like things...People get really lost when they´re tempted by material gifts. Maybe a total social collapse would be beneficial for us after all, on the long term; We would be given a second chance to think about things that really matter and stop wasting our time working like dogs only to buy useless stuff.

Anyway, I guess we´ll have to figure out how to create a whole new model, which is quite a challenge. Personally, my brain hurts just to think about it more profoundly.

Just my two cents anyway.

Cheers,

Raf.

[Anchor]

Reconsidering the headline question Can TPTB Be Stopped?

You know what fuels TPTB....

Consent.

Collectively, we consent.

You can deny this on an individual basis, but doing so seems to me to be why the problems are protracted.

Give an inch and they take a mile, but we consent.

You can find where this is distorted beyond belief, and you can get angry and say, how did that hungry Ethiopian consent to be starving - and of course he did not individually, and probably doesnt even have much time to think about it - but we did, directly or indirectly we did consent and we let it happen.

The standards we walk by and do nothing about, are the standards we set.

I think that as we learn more and more and start to unraveling that conundrum and the the way responsibility for OUR world takes shapes and operates is OURS eventually gives the answer to how what we characterize as TPTB operate can be stopped, and it is why you need to "be the change you want to see" in the world.

[RMorgan]

Reconsidering the headline question Can TPTB Be Stopped?

You know what fuels TPTB....

Consent.

Collectively, we consent.

You can deny this on an individual basis, but doing so seems to me to be why the problems are protracted.

Give an inch and they take a mile, but we consent.

You can find where this is distorted beyond belief, and you can get angry and say, how did that hungry Ethiopian consent to be starving - and of course he did not individually, and probably doesnt even have much time to think about it - but we did, directly or indirectly we did consent and we let it happen.

The standards we walk by and do nothing about, are the standards we set.

I think that as we learn more and more and start to unraveling that conundrum and the the way responsibility for OUR world takes shapes and operates is OURS eventually gives the answer to how what we characterize as TPTB operate can be stopped, and it is why you need to "be the change you want to see" in the world.

Hey mate,

It´s not that simple.

We support them every time we buy something, that most of the times, is produced by one of their companies.

Gas, internet, energy, computers, wall paint, plastic bags, cellphones, grocery items, cars, cloths, medicine, credit cards...Everything generates revenue for them. Even the paper money from most major countries belong to them and people benefit them when they use it.

So, to actually stop them, we would literally have to stop buying from them, which would be extremely hard for most of us, who have grown accustomed to the comfort of the lifestyle they provide us.

To sum up, to stop supporting them, we have to go of the grid and live a self-sufficient life style.

The problem is that the biggest majority of people don´t care about where the stuff they buy come from; We´ve ignored the consequences of modern capitalism until we have grew totally dependent from TPTB as a society.

Consent is actually involved, of course, but in a different way. As an example, when you fuel your car or buy any plastic goods, you have consented that someone extracted and benefited the oil for you. If you have consented to buy this gas, you also have consented with all the consequences of the oil exploration industry, which include wars and all sorts of corruption.

When you use your credit card, you have actually consented with the banking cartel and all things involved in between.

When you buy their stuff, either you actively consent with their "methods" or you close your eyes and pretend you´re blind.

So, basically, the major rule here is that they give us stuff which makes our lives generally much easier, then we give them our money so they can get us more of this stuff, and so on and on and on...Most people are quite happy with this relationship and most people who complain about TPBT are actually being hypocrites because you can´t complain of something you support every day...It´s the same as saying that you hate pizzas while eating a pizza and ordering the next pizza simultaneously.

Sorry for the rant mate, but most people don´t even care about where there excrement goes after they flush the toilet bowl...Most people haven´t even thought about that a single time during their lives...As long as the shilt is not there, disturbing their immaculate bathroom, it´s ok.

This sums up everything. People want to have everything. People enjoy having everything. People close their eyes as long as they can live their lives undisturbed. If people can´t have this stuff anymore, people complain.

This big awakening among the North-Americans is probably also caused by these factors... Now that the mess is happening right in their backyards they can´t ignore it anymore. When people were living the American Dream back in the old days, I bet they couldn´t care less if their corporations where killing people or poisoning the environment somewhere else in the world.

Now that these corporations have messed up everything and can´t support their dream anymore, that their economy is collapsing and they can´t afford the stuff they like anymore, people cry like babies without a pacifier.

Raf.

PS: Sorry in advance if I offended anyone. It wasn´t my intention...I´m just being honest.

[Mark]

There are indeed great minds here, it is the reason I stay, Raf. The blessing of being able to converse and get into the details of a topic - and hold different views - while not descending into vitriol and nastiness is the ultimate expression of that greatness. I appreciate it, always.

By now you understand that I meld science and spirituality into one holistic overview to the best of my ability, so the conclusions that I come to are as close to mainstream science as I can make them which I have my training as a Geographer to thank for. This topic, though, of intention and human potentiality, of energy and individuals, of intent and collective manifestation, is a topic that must of necessity span both sides of the spectrum in my opinion. History has a way of repeating itself, to my view it's like a circle from the top if you look at how it works, but if you check it out from the side, it's a spiral, with time and space changing in nature while the same cycles repeat over and over again, just at a higher and more rarified iteration each time.

To me this is the essence of the ancient understanding of time and space, of cycles and the predictive ability. What is innate to humanity will always return to the forefront of our consciousness given the right external conditions that bring them forth. If we are inherently social creatures, if we are inherently peaceable creatures, if we are inherently spiritual beings inhabiting material bodies then all disequilibrium must at some point return to equilibrium. So, in this view, peaceful societies are our past and also our future.

Yes, disequilibrium will return again. LOL But at a higher manifestation or future time and space, which some of us may return to see and others may not.

But there I go again, mixing science and spirituality. Bless!

[Youniverse]

For Raf and RUSirius. It depends on how you define "stopping them." Most folks I've listened to on this topic allude to an end of subjugation, exploitation, corruption, etc. Not the immediate dismantling of the whole system. Few people would call for such a scenario. Do you really believe many or most of these things cannot be run without some elitest, ego-driven conglomerate like the Cabal? It is the end of seperation we are really talking about. When you really, genuinely look at every other human being as another you, how can you possibly do anything deliberately harmful to them?

[Youniverse]

RUSIrius have you ever heard of the book "The Source Field Investigations" by David Wilcock? He provides direct evidence of results from group meditation, as well as other examples in this book. He gives a great deal of compelling evidence, as well as some of the science of it. As Bashar says "This is just physics people."

[Youniverse]

Zc2uhJNiIhE
Thanks so much for that video Rahkyt! That was awesome!

[Youniverse]

I was wondering what any of you that have read the Conversations With God trilogy think of the parts on HEBS(Highly Evolved Beings)? I was very interested in them and their way of life, common practices, etc. In those culture it is said that crime does not exist, so there is no need for police. No wars either, so no need for armies. No need for money as all is shared, because all are ONE and no one looks at any one else as undeserving. There is a lengthy explanation as to how this all works, which I won't repeat here. I just wanted to bring that up because I feel it provides an excellent example, a template if you will, to work from as we collectively ascend to higher and higher states of consciousness. Of course when a group has become telepathic, all is known to the group so there are no secrets. These beings would literally be incapable of malicious or otherwise inconsiderate thoughts or actions, but if they did, they would immediately be known to the ENTIRE group and quickly dealt with in the most loving way of course. They have no need for governments either of course because they self-govern. This is our future folks. At least some version of it.

It is also said that HEBS live by the code that their society is measured, not by how few people hold the bulk of the wealth and look down on the rest, but by how well the weakest are cared for and dignified. Before someone digs into me about giving "free rides" and those kinds of ideas, it is all eloquently explained in CWG why and how the system I alluded to above works MUCH better than the one we're using right now. The key is, spiritual evolution first, then cultural, technological, social, etc. evolution next. Apparently the Atlantians basically "blew themselves up" because they did not cultivate the spiritual evolution to match their technological evolution. We have an opportunity now to learn from their errors and succeed where they failed. At least, according to CWG. God Bless you all!

[Anchor]

Reconsidering the headline question Can TPTB Be Stopped?

You know what fuels TPTB....

Consent.

Collectively, we consent.

You can deny this on an individual basis, but doing so seems to me to be why the problems are protracted.

Give an inch and they take a mile, but we consent.

You can find where this is distorted beyond belief, and you can get angry and say, how did that hungry Ethiopian consent to be starving - and of course he did not individually, and probably doesnt even have much time to think about it - but we did, directly or indirectly we did consent and we let it happen.

The standards we walk by and do nothing about, are the standards we set.

I think that as we learn more and more and start to unraveling that conundrum and the the way responsibility for OUR world takes shapes and operates is OURS eventually gives the answer to how what we characterize as TPTB operate can be stopped, and it is why you need to "be the change you want to see" in the world.

Hey mate,

It´s not that simple.



I agree it is not simple. It is for precisely the reasons you state that there will be considerable inconveniences (even fatal in some cases) experienced by many before we get to where I think we are going.... (Which, as a reminder, is a world free from tyrants with a population of responsible people in their place, operating in peace and harmony)

[modwiz]

I was wondering what any of you that have read the Conversations With God trilogy think of the parts on HEBS(Highly Evolved Beings)? I was very interested in them and their way of life, common practices, etc. In those culture it is said that crime does not exist, so there is no need for police. No wars either, so no need for armies. No need for money as all is shared, because all are ONE and no one looks at any one else as undeserving. There is a lengthy explanation as to how this all works, which I won't repeat here. I just wanted to bring that up because I feel it provides an excellent example, a template if you will, to work from as we collectively ascend to higher and higher states of consciousness. Of course when a group has become telepathic, all is known to the group so there are no secrets. These beings would literally be incapable of malicious or otherwise inconsiderate thoughts or actions, but if they did, they would immediately be known to the ENTIRE group and quickly dealt with in the most loving way of course. They have no need for governments either of course because they self-govern. This is our future folks. At least some version of it.

It is also said that HEBS live by the code that their society is measured, not by how few people hold the bulk of the wealth and look down on the rest, but by how well the weakest are cared for and dignified. Before someone digs into me about giving "free rides" and those kinds of ideas, it is all eloquently explained in CWG why and how the system I alluded to above works MUCH better than the one we're using right now. The key is, spiritual evolution first, then cultural, technological, social, etc. evolution next. Apparently the Atlantians basically "blew themselves up" because they did not cultivate the spiritual evolution to match their technological evolution. We have an opportunity now to learn from their errors and succeed where they failed. At least, according to CWG. God Bless you all!

Read all three CWG books. Only first one felt "right" to me. The others felt forced and contractual. The same thing happened with he "Right Use of Will" series. First one was brilliant and the following felt almost psychotic. There are inspired books, but there is nothing inspired about publishing houses. They are business and you sign a contract. Some may ask "What's wrong with that?" The products that invariably follow are my evidence.

I ask no one to look at it. Just my opinion.

HEB, is doable once people get over what happened to them in their childhood's. You know, all of the trauma stuff. I'm not looking at a clock, or calendar, for that one.

The above emotional retardation and stopping the PTB, (PTW is pure wishing and hoping fantasy for me), are tied together, IMO. We will get rid of abusive parents once we get out of our collective diapers.

[christian]

Reconsidering the headline question Can TPTB Be Stopped?

You know what fuels TPTB....

Consent.

Collectively, we consent.

You can deny this on an individual basis, but doing so seems to me to be why the problems are protracted.

So, to actually stop them, we would literally have to stop buying from them, which would be extremely hard for most of us, who have grown accustomed to the comfort of the lifestyle they provide us.

To sum up, to stop supporting them, we have to go of the grid and live a self-sufficient life style.

I think you're both right. It's about becoming independent, but it's a gradual process.

In essence, it's not just going off the grid, but creating our own grid.

Generally that's entirely doable, be it little changes with locally produced goods and services, or at a bigger level. Organization via social networks and crowd-funding is the way to go, I think. Like having a network like facebook for committed people who want to make a change, where inventors find investors and vice versa. The new structure or at least the inception of businesses corporations can be organized on a virtual level.

Then we have the revolution of 3D-printing (http://landdestroyer.blogspot.de/2012/10/3d-printed-drones-guns-post-scarcity.html), which is really like a quantum leap in my opinion, where you can produce virtually any object up to a certain size through a sci-fi materialization machine. This is already reality, greatly overlooked by the MSM, not by accident.


This is the biggest problem of capitalism, in my opinion, by the way. It has become much more than a political system; It´s almost like a religion. If you don´t have a lot of things you´re a loser, if you really feel like a loser, you´ll do whatever it takes to become a "winner", and this includes all sorts of crimes.

It's rather the mind-set, or heart-set, I think. For example, I read about a German shoe manufacturer who got rid of all his bank accounts, personal paperwork as much as he could and so on. He says he rarely needs more than 50€ a week and can take that directly out of the company's counter. He says he feels free. He gives out small loans and got problems for that, because only banks are allowed to do that. He says he doesn't respect that law and is not inclined to bend over. That's the spirit. I've met many people who are not spiritually satisfied by material posessions.

Yet capitalism should be a major pillar of a free society, because it's in essence a) private property/capital and b) free market. That's how this shoemaker runs his business and he's a fine example that giving in to endless greed is not a given in a society that is by definition capitalistic, but a personal choice.

[Chester]

I´ve lived a couple of months among Brazilian´s indigenous tribes, the Kuikuro and Kalapálo, which are, unfortunately, among the few tribes which actually preserved their traditions and knowledge. They are genuinely amazing and peaceful warriors, but they suffer from the same problem that we do; They like things.

Attachments... we do like our things... attachment to material objects... attachment to materiality - we are all, the fallen and to me, the first step, is getting over that fact, face it head on, then try earnestly to detach... it is not easy.

I respect a few folks I know who are wealthy and yet I can see how they are hardly attached to their possessions. These few appear to project stewardship, not greed. There are a few on this planet who are actually, genuinely like this. Thank goodness.



I wonder if it´s in the human nature, I mean, to be easily seduced by the idea of possessing things...

You picked up on a key word. Possession.

I do not believe there is any specific imbedded nature for any Spirit being. I do see a lot of folks have this concept called "human nature" in that they present this as something we are permanently stuck with. As if this thing called human nature is a fact we can never transcend. I found buying into that is a trap.

I can say this because I have had the advantage of experiencing multiple "book of Job" events in my life. The last was where all I had left was only my own life and I was unable to end it because I was trapped in a catch 22 of the worst kind.

Imagine you realized you had reached the final decision point where the only solution was suicide and that decision was reached primarily by discovering the complete, inarguable absurdity of the experience we call "life" and yet, if there be anything that any of us should be able to count on, wouldn't one think that should be the parent that brought you into this world?

My father (they say) killed himself. My mother took the "hide your head in the sand" hermit road but at least managed to stay away from conscious physical destruction and lives pretty much in right, positive relationship with most.

So I found myself with children (something I had consciously decided I never wanted to have, yet "life" happens, yes?). And so I was forced to promise my sons that no matter what, I would never do what my father did because I never wanted them to have to move through the exercise of, "Why wasn't I important enough to my Dad for him to not kill himself?" And to have to live with the fact that I knew when he called me (I was age 21) that something was wrong and I did not go to him... I failed to save him.

So when I found myself hanging out that 33 floor window because a "voice in my head" was screaming at me I had to kill myself now to save the world... my promise to my sons re-entered my head and I was screwed. And the image of my wife appeared in my mind's eye and so I scrambled back inside.

The reason for this detailed recanting is headed to a point, Chester style.

What happened next then was I lost everything but two suitcases of mostly clothes and I left my life and bounced to Colombia where I laid in a bed for over a month in the very worst depression one could ever imagine. It was worse than getting to the point you kill yourself. My depression was because I couldn't even do that!


Now the reason for the story. It was on April 26th, 2012... almost 3 months since I got to Colombia then ended up in the US (March 10th) where I had experienced this lengthy depression - total, utter despair. Knowing that PTBs and or a celestial home might soon destroy my family, my loved ones... "my" that I then discovered Houman's Horus-Ra thread and like a light switch, my depression instantly disappeared.

So these months since, I have been able to process all sorts of data... the past, the current situation as seen through my eyes and the current and future possibilities as shared by many mostly through this forum. And what I have found is for me, there is great truth in the statement, "Less is more."

So now I will encircle all the above back to the very word I triggered on...

Possession.

We are a planet in the grips of a grand possession. I found how to relieve myself of what has possessed me and that is simply by understanding the vast possibilities of what can exist within my experiential reality while simultaneously becoming all but entirely detached from every single "thing" and most importantly, every single living being.

I found my solution has been in working both directions.

The biggest example is that 22 days ago I stopped all meat consumption. I am 55 and have eaten meat my entire life. I loved meat. Any form of meat you gave me I would try and I never found a presentation of a meat product I did not love. Do not take my words to be preaching vegetarianism to anyone because if you do you are going to miss my point.

I stopped eating meat because I read a comment by Bill Ryan where he pointed out the hypocrisy of a human being that believes it is not right for an animal to eat another animal (as in a Reptilian and/or a hybrid that eats humans) when I eat other animals.

We are great at talking the talk... but really, how can we when we don't walk the walk?

So I don't suddenly beat the next Drake drum and suggest any other human being stop eating meat. I only addressed the man in the mirror. I read Bill's comment about 4 months back. It took me 3 months of attempting to rationalize my efforts to stop satanic practice while stuffing my face with the flesh of other animals to draw that line.

OK, so 22 days... big deal. But the reason I pointed out this example is because what has happened to me in the last 22 days is a serious transition away from being held hostage by what I call my lower emotions. Each and every day these emotions that held me hostage my entire life are vanishing.

Each and every day I have been cutting more and more of the strings related to attachments as well. My possessions like my sons, like my wife and her step-daughter... my sister and my Mom and my Mom's sister... and more and more.

Each day I find myself thankful I can pack all my worldly possessions in 5 suitcases with nothing more but a $40 folding table.

My bank accounts have less than $500 (way less).

I have a job and each and every month all the money I get from the job gets spent on a.) taxes b.) food and shelter for my wife and step-daughter in Medellin and me here in San Jose.

And I have this internet and I have Avalon.

I have never, ever been happier in my life. I have never felt so truly free. I am so happy to be alive despite the problems of this world.

I am being the change I want to see... not perfectly... I perhaps had some lower emotions arise in my calling out of David Wilcock the other day, but compared to the monster I have been for 48 of my 55 years up until recently... you might think I am an angel... and yes, I am ok that I am a fallen one if that's the case.

Who/what I am is the man in the mirror today and the awareness of that man and the " " behind that awareness.

Monster Post Over -

Love to RMorgan and christian and Rahkyt and gripreaper and Mozart and others who have been posting in this thread... justoneman




As always, the problem is that we like things...People get really lost when they´re tempted by material gifts. Maybe a total social collapse would be beneficial for us after all, on the long term; We would be given a second chance to think about things that really matter and stop wasting our time working like dogs only to buy useless stuff.

Anyway, I guess we´ll have to figure out how to create a whole new model, which is quite a challenge. Personally, my brain hurts just to think about it more profoundly.


Maybe we just find ourselves one day to have evolved in this direction... one thing I do know about life is that "Life happens."

[Youniverse]

Read all three CWG books. Only first one felt "right" to me. The others felt forced and contractual. The same thing happened with he "Right Use of Will" series. First one was brilliant and the following felt almost psychotic. There are inspired books, but there is nothing inspired about publishing houses. They are business and you sign a contract. Some may ask "What's wrong with that?" The products that invariably follow are my evidence.

I ask no one to look at it. Just my opinion.

HEB, is doable once people get over what happened to them in their childhood's. You know, all of the trauma stuff. I'm not looking at a clock, or calendar, for that one.

The above emotional retardation and stopping the PTB, (PTW is pure wishing and hoping fantasy for me), are tied together, IMO. We will get rid of abusive parents once we get out of our collective diapers

Thanks for that my friend. I didn't get that sense from the last two books. I felt they were consistent in the delivery of a message. Have you read Walsch's latest "The Only Thing That Matters"? I thought it was good too.

[Hawkwind]

For starts, this is the best discussion I’ve seen here in quite some time. So, thanks to gripreaper for starting the thread and everyone who has participated in it thus far.

Before carrying the discussion further, however, it might be a good idea to make sure were in agreement on the definition of some terms. The original question was, “Can TPTB be stopped?” TPTB is an abbreviation commonly used here to refer to “The Powers That Be”. Using said abbreviation almost invariably leads to a tangential discussion of whether or not the proper terminology and abbreviation should be “The Powers That Were” TPTW or some other such acronym. Using TPTW implies that the problem under discussion has already been solved. While I appreciate the power of visualizing desired results as accomplished fact, it seems to me rather difficult to discuss a perceived problem using terminology which implies that no problem exists. After all, if TPTW is an accurate term, then they have already been stopped and any discussion of whether or not they can be stopped becomes rather pointless. Hmm, perhaps the term TPTW was created by TPTB as a means to derail any meaningful discussion of subjects related to them. If so, well played- you sneaky bastards. In summary- If and when our individual or collective mastery of the power of positive intent reaches a point that we can stay dry on a rainy day simply by referring to it as sunny, it would make sense to refer to TPTB as TPTW, until then I suggest we continue to carry umbrellas.

Now that you have my two cents on choice of terminology, just who are these alleged PTB and what exactly are they doing that we might want to stop? The question “Can TPTB be stopped?” Implies that TPTB is a group unified toward achieving some goal. Global domination, ie- complete control of the planet’s resources and people, seems to be the most commonly held theory as to what that goal is. There isn’t so much agreement, however, as to who the creators and perpetrators of this plot are. I’ve seen the Queen, the Pope, the Jesuits, the Jews, the Nazis, the banksters, the Illuminati, Lucifer, ETs and EDs all posited as the controllers of this supposed conspiracy. So, does this cabal actually exist?- For me, the continued cover-up of the events of 9/11/2001 proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that some unified global conspiracy must exist. The official story is so blatantly false that if even a handful of people in positions of power were to speak out against it, common sense would prevail. The fact that this hasn’t happened suggests that people in positions of apparent power are (as many of us conspiracy theorists have said) subservient to some higher, hidden power.

After twenty years of research into the subject, I still can’t say with any degree of certainty who sits atop this power pyramid. I can, however, identify a sufficient number of people at high enough levels within the power structure that if removed would render the entire hierarchy impotent and obsolete. Benjamin Fulford puts the number at about 10,000 people- sounds about right. Bring 10,000 Bushes, Rockefellars, Rothschilds, etc. to justice and the cabal’s control over the rest of us would collapse. And (as RMorgan points out here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=589272#post589272-then what?

I’m not so much worried about food shortages and power outages. There may be a few hiccups in making a smooth transition of ownership and control with those things, but the systems won’t collapse. The power struggles which are likely to ensue among various would be lords, however, is a concern. When a monarch dies without a clearly defined heir, chaos usually results. In this case, we’re talking about 10,000 lords and their heirs apparent being removed from power in a short space of time. It could indeed get messy, but I still find that risk preferable to the road we are currently on.

The Illumiinati, started out with what at least sounded like a pretty lofty goal- to put an end to war. The trouble is the way they decided to go about accomplishing this. Destroy all existing division among people (governments, religions, etc.)and bring them together under a single unified system. Foment increasingly large and horrific wars until the populace are willing to sacrifice everything else to end the conflicts. The idea was that the end justifies the means, but as Gandhi later pointed out- the means we employ define the quality of the ends we achieve. The idea of using an interim of war to achieve control and permanent peace seems to have at some point gotten perverted to the Orwellian idea of using permanent war to maintain absolute control. I don’t find that a very appealing vision of the future.

[skippy]

The problem is that the biggest majority of people don´t care about where the stuff they buy come from...

When you buy their stuff, either you actively consent with their "methods" or you close your eyes and pretend you´re blind...

So, basically, the major rule here is that they give us stuff which makes our lives generally much easier, then we give them our money so they can get us more of this stuff, and so on and on and on..

About our personal stuff..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x_QkGPCL18

[Chester]

For Raf and RUSirius. It depends on how you define "stopping them." Most folks I've listened to on this topic allude to an end of subjugation, exploitation, corruption, etc. Not the immediate dismantling of the whole system. Few people would call for such a scenario. Do you really believe many or most of these things cannot be run without some elitest, ego-driven conglomerate like the Cabal? It is the end of seperation we are really talking about. When you really, genuinely look at every other human being as another you, how can you possibly do anything deliberately harmful to them?

Bammo - what a great post, thanks

[blufire]

I will be the first one to admit I am not good in the realm of the esoteric and philosophical arenas.

I become quickly frustrated and irritated at the seemingly endless cyclical discussion that for me seems to go nowhere except to make most feel like it is all so difficult and surreal that they simply shut down and basically give up in many aspects of living. . . . most become apathetic at best.

I get the ‘spiritual’ . . . . getting your heart and mind in the hopefully right state thing and at best in a place where you are open to truth and new realities.

I get the importance of personal reflection and growth and that these need to be generally in place first in order to move forward from a good foundation.

I get the (but don’t necessarily agree with) the us against them mentality . . .the “I is right and they is wrong and we are gonna make them eat worms” ideology.

And many other concepts discussed endlessly over and over and over here on Avalon . . . but my question is where does all this discussion, regurgitation, posturing and pontification get us?? and I mean really get us??

Where? I am at a loss . . . .

The question the OP on this thread is “Can TPTB be Stopped?” . . . . .I agree with RMorgan (post #38) in that perhaps the better question is “Should They Be Stopped” . . . not only from the premise stated in his post #38 but on a much deeper level than that.

I propose simply that we truly do not understand where “They” are leading us.

It is damn near impossible to see past what most see as evil and murderous, satanic narcissistic beings to perhaps what is actually a beautiful future . . . not for my generation or even the next several . . .but what they are (I feel) are working toward now to be achieved in the next 50 to 100 years.

I have come to believe ‘they’ see the bigger picture . . .the much bigger picture . . . the solar system sized picture.

99.9% of humanity can ONLY see as far as their own door step and most not even that far . . .it stops right in their own lap.

I have come to believe and remember that the future that is discussed over and over in the forums . . free energy, sustainable eco systems, natural resource driven economies, abundance, interaction within the solar system etcetera . . . .is exactly where they are leading us.

I know probably 99% of everyone that reads that last sentence thinks I have gone to the dark side and have lost my ever lovn’ mind. (short trip)

Do I mean that the path they are leading us will be kind to the next several generations? No I do not. But I absolutely do believe that once you come to understand the ‘path’ and what has to happen to get there and what the destination looks like, then you adapt . . . . you reassess and adapt and use the knowledge to soften your own personal path while assisting the outcome we all dream of . . . where ‘they’ are leading us.

A small example of what I mean.

We (on a global scale) are being led to a One World Governed Economic System. We can not stop this. Period. But, this new system will benefit all of humanity of all nations and will ultimately end wars and most conflict. But this means collapsing the economic systems and governing bodies currently in place. This collapsing and establishing the new will cause untold hardship and heart rending pain in the next 20 to 50 years . . .but it will lessen as we adapt and adjust and it becomes more established.

Also and most important, if you see this path and know what it most likely will entail then you prepare, adapt, acknowledge and use it too your advantage . . . 99% will not see it coming . . . those that see it . . . acknowledge it . . .and most of all use it, will fair much easier. Not only that, those individuals will help the future we dream of and that they are leading us come to fruition much quicker and easier.

There are many other elements and events to our very near future that “they’ understand and are knowledgeable and that they are addressing unrelentingly and on a multifaceted level. It is to the benefit of all of humanity . . .I can remember this now and actually have know this since I was a young girl playing deep in the mountains of Appalachia.

I am full aware this idea is a massive bomb shell and that it will most likely will alienate me even more from many here on Avalon, but I feel strongly that I am on a path of reality that is Truth and it is my desire to help and love as many as I possibly can. I’m a tough ‘ole bird and can take the backlash . . .I hope.

[Arrowwind]

As always, the problem is that we like things...People get really lost when they´re tempted by material gifts. Maybe a total social collapse would be beneficial for us after all, on the long term; We would be given a second chance to think about things that really matter and stop wasting our time working like dogs only to buy useless stuff.

Anyway, I guess we´ll have to figure out how to create a whole new model, which is quite a challenge. Personally, my brain hurts just to think about it more profoundly.

Just my two cents anyway.

Cheers,

Raf.

Yep. It makes my brain hurt too... so I am rooting for something closer to the collapse scenario combined with the evolution of sustainability and low tech consciousness combined with high tech sustainable products. This treadmill of money and buying stuff will never end without radical change.

the paradigm shift in consciousness would include pride in sustainability and adaptability with organic materials.

Only the essential technologies should remain. Only the esential goods... that would eliminate most of what China has to offer and half of what the US offers. With naturopathic revisions in health care it would reduce the need of pharmaceuticals to minimal and emergency use. Sustainability ethics would eliminate built in or planned obsolesence and failure of products. Better tech and non tech systems all around would be installed as time goes by reducing the carbon footprint hugely. Those things that need to be built would not break. Things that can break would be able to return to the soil without damge.

a really really simplistic example would be the digging pick we purchased last year. In no time the pick bent. A neighbor who does welding reinforced it for us.. but in a sustainable plan that pick that bent when applied to a task would not bend, nor would the handle come off. It would last for a thousand generations cause folks are always going to need picks to do real work.... and then that pick would be entered into a community tools cooperative, to be borrowed when needed

[SilentFeathers]

In a sense TPTB are just an enhanced version of ourselves.....we as a species are broken so to speak, or perhaps it's a type of sickness/illness that causes us to be caught in this cycle of war, hate, and destruction....Peace and Love constantly penetrate our awareness, we all get to taste it, but something broken within causes us to spit it out of our lives when things get tough or threatening to this evil or sickness of greed/power etc.

Most of us reflect this Rothchild/Rockefeller/Goldman Sachs, etc., type of behavior/sickness, or evil on some level, right down to our own family unit, our community, county, state, nation.......it's everywhere yet we think it is only the most powerful that elite; hence TPTB that must be stopped to fix everything????? Due to this sickness or evil then once the PTB are eliminated, because we carry the same disease/evil it would either be you or I that would take their place and the cycle would in time evolve right back to where it was.....it's like a skipping record so to speak.

Many of us refuse or deny that we could ever take their place at the top, but deep down, many of us would enjoy the power and get lost in the darkness like they at the top are now.....

It's a part of our nature to basically be "naughty" and a sign that something is way out of balance within us or that something is broken.

To break this cycle or cure this sickness IMO doesn't only include eliminating the evil PTB at the top, but also includes eliminating the disease or sickness (evil) within each and everyone of us....

[RMorgan]

For Raf and RUSirius. It depends on how you define "stopping them." Most folks I've listened to on this topic allude to an end of subjugation, exploitation, corruption, etc. Not the immediate dismantling of the whole system. Few people would call for such a scenario. Do you really believe many or most of these things cannot be run without some elitest, ego-driven conglomerate like the Cabal? It is the end of seperation we are really talking about. When you really, genuinely look at every other human being as another you, how can you possibly do anything deliberately harmful to them?

Hi mate,

First, you can´t demoralize something that has no moral. You can subjugate an organization composed of hundreds of individuals operating from different and independent cells.

Second, I´m sure this system cannot be continued without their presence. They own everything, including a major card, which is the stock market. If anything happens to one of their major cells, the stock markets will go broke and the system will go down as well.

These guys have managed to dominate the world for hundreds of years; They own the most sophisticated intelligence agency in the world, that goes way beyond the CIA, KGB or MI6...They can do things that we can´t even imagine.

These are smart folks, with an extreme strategic advantage and hundreds of years accumulated in ruling the world and controlling the masses expertise.

Whatever step we make towards planning to stop them, they are a hundreds steps ahead.




I propose simply that we truly do not understand where “They” are leading us.



Hey blufire,

I don´t necessarily agree with every thing you say, but I agree 100% with the above statement.

People love to speculate about them, but actually have ZERO idea of what they are planning for our future. Even among them, only the top of the top know their true agenda. They probably spread disinformation even in their own independent cells, to prevent information leaking and to find out eventual informants.

Depopulation, moving to the moon and this sort of conspiracy theories are all nonsense, in my opinion. I really think that all these theories are deliberately spread by them only to move us further away from their general purpose.

These are not good guys; That´s a fact.

However, people must understand that their power comes from the masses. The core of their operative system can´t work without us. As I´ve said before, it´s a symbiotic relationship, us and them.

They have invested Trillions of dollars in medical research to make us live longer than ever; That´s also a fact. There´s more people on Earth than ever and that´s exactly what they want.

Sure, they´ll move towards free energy and a more sustainable society. They´ll do it not because they are good guys. They´ll do it because they have no choice.

This system will collapse if they don´t take the necessary measures towards a more sustainable one and they need this system; Outside of this system they are nothing.

In fact, I believe the collapse of the current system has been planed for a long time and they have everything "under control"...I don´t know what will come next, but if we look at the probabilities, they will be in charge.

Anyway, they are extremely selfish and there´s no margin to think the contrary; If they could, they would kill us all, but they can´t. They are just as dependent of us as we are from them.

We can´t understand their logic, because they work with some sort of organized chaos; some sort of advanced Shivaism...

Their logic starts to make sense when you realize that even the best book ever written is nothing but an organized chaotic version of a dictionary.

Raf.

[blufire]

RMorgan,

These are people just like you and just like me ‘they’ are no different.

They are no more powerful or special . . .the only true measurable difference is ‘they’ have more information and knowledge. . . not necessarily wisdom . . . centuries old knowledge. And this knowledge then makes them responsible to work within it for all of humanity and yes a specific genome.

This does not make them or their actions evil . . . all though it surely appears this way. We get totally caught up in the money factor . . . the level of ‘they’ I am speaking of have no need for something as meaningless as money.

But . . .

I would not want the responsibility they have . . . . how do you choose between the annihilation of an entire planet and all of humanity in the coming future and the collateral damage and deaths of many hundreds of millions of humans through thousands of centuries?

How does a mere mortal (of which ‘they’ are) make this decision and then build a plan (over centuries) to support that ultimate decision? The enormity of this knowledge would not only change an individual but it would morph their genetic future.

“They’ have made the choice to preserve the entire planet and humanity (future) and are hated and loathed because of it.

Are ‘they’ using us as slaves? Obviously many and most do believe this . . . .I do not or I do no longer.

They feed us the information or at least enough for us to make intelligent decisions and take action. “He who has ears let him hear”

To believe we have no control over our own fate and destiny is defeatist . . .I am not defeated in any way. We do have freewill, but not in the religious dogma sense.

“They’ are feeding us information all the time and for centuries now to give us the choice to decide our own Destiny . . . . .

If you are not riding out to meet your Destiny you will be stampeded by Fate.

[Chester]

Post #100 Raf ... quite dark - at the same time, much of it I can see as being quite true. Its my belief based on the indirect relationship I have had with elements of the PTBs, Luciferianism (not to be confused or linked with what is known as Satanism) is what you might find the PTBs enjoying.

Interestingly, Shivaism is popular in Sri Lanka where, according to Gnostics I am associated with, was the original "Garden of Eden" - where Sanat Kumara landed back in the day (some suggest he and his brother, Sananda came from the Sirius star system by way of Venus).

I can see Shivaism coming from the same basic foundational understandings as Luciferian's might view The All and creation and who/what we are.

Anyways, your view is quite sobering. How direct you are in presenting it may be difficult for some. My logical mind has to admit your logic is reasonably sound.

I actually see the PTBs quite similar to the Wizard of Oz unfortunately that was only a movie and only a few "evil witches" met a horrid demise. In our real life movie, real people are going through a very real hell while the wizards pull all the levers.

Still, we both (if we play the us/them game) got here together. I don't blame either side alone, I do see it is our collective responsibility. Could it be possible "we" the people might rise above our resentments and transcend blame and instead focus on being the change? Maybe if we do, "they" adjust as well such that they alter the way they achieve their goal, as rulers, for us all (which includes them).

I only take responsibility for myself. But I am intent on seeing that change for my loved ones and yes, then, I will smile as well.

Oh and are you a fan of Roger Waters by chance?

[Chester]

In a sense TPTB are just an enhanced version of ourselves.....we as a species are broken so to speak, or perhaps it's a type of sickness/illness that causes us to be caught in this cycle of war, hate, and destruction....Peace and Love constantly penetrate our awareness, we all get to taste it, but something broken within causes us to spit it out of our lives when things get tough or threatening to this evil or sickness of greed/power etc.

Most of us reflect this Rothchild/Rockefeller/Goldman Sachs, etc., type of behavior/sickness, or evil on some level, right down to our own family unit, our community, county, state, nation.......it's everywhere yet we think it is only the most powerful that elite; hence TPTB that must be stopped to fix everything????? Due to this sickness or evil then once the PTB are eliminated, because we carry the same disease/evil it would either be you or I that would take their place and the cycle would in time evolve right back to where it was.....it's like a skipping record so to speak.

Many of us refuse or deny that we could ever take their place at the top, but deep down, many of us would enjoy the power and get lost in the darkness like they at the top are now.....

It's a part of our nature to basically be "naughty" and a sign that something is way out of balance within us or that something is broken.

To break this cycle or cure this sickness IMO doesn't only include eliminating the evil PTB at the top, but also includes eliminating the disease or sickness (evil) within each and everyone of us....

Bammo - absolutely great post, thanks SilentFeathers for not being silent

[Belle]

Can TPTB Be Stopped? Simple answer...Yes.

Z.Brzezinski complains about what he calls the global political awakening...on video....twice...once in 2011 and once in 2012...


2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4AyOk9P4wU
Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4AyOk9P4wU&feature=related



2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHknL5z8f6k
Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHknL5z8f6k



Trilateral Comish founder Brzezinski "easier to kill 1M people than control 1M people" .....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRMGI-STUdY
Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRMGI-STUdY



It doesn't sound like tptb have our best interests in mind...but maybe that's just me. It is in my heart to lead and not to follow...this is my life that is being affected by their decisions...enough is enough. My life...my choice.

Looking into "World Government of World Citizens". (You can find the website here: http://www.worldservice.org/) Sounds interesting....doing research on it now and reading the books written by Garry Davis. The basic premise is that world government trumps nation/states...using their own need for documents against them...based on common law...members required to live in the present and take responsibility for their own actions. They supply all kinds of documentation to their members, including passports. I'm sure there's more, but that's as far as I've gotten.

If a one world government is in our future, let it be one of our own choosing for the benefit of all...imo.

[TargeT]

Reconsidering the headline question Can TPTB Be Stopped?

You know what fuels TPTB....

Consent.

Collectively, we consent.

You can deny this on an individual basis, but doing so seems to me to be why the problems are protracted.

So, to actually stop them, we would literally have to stop buying from them, which would be extremely hard for most of us, who have grown accustomed to the comfort of the lifestyle they provide us.

To sum up, to stop supporting them, we have to go of the grid and live a self-sufficient life style.

I think you're both right. It's about becoming independent, but it's a gradual process.

In essence, it's not just going off the grid, but creating our own grid.

Generally that's entirely doable, be it little changes with locally produced goods and services, or at a bigger level. Organization via social networks and crowd-funding is the way to go, I think. Like having a network like facebook for committed people who want to make a change, where inventors find investors and vice versa. The new structure or at least the inception of businesses corporations can be organized on a virtual level.

Then we have the revolution of 3D-printing (http://landdestroyer.blogspot.de/2012/10/3d-printed-drones-guns-post-scarcity.html), which is really like a quantum leap in my opinion, where you can produce virtually any object up to a certain size through a sci-fi materialization machine. This is already reality, greatly overlooked by the MSM, not by accident.


This is the biggest problem of capitalism, in my opinion, by the way. It has become much more than a political system; It´s almost like a religion. If you don´t have a lot of things you´re a loser, if you really feel like a loser, you´ll do whatever it takes to become a "winner", and this includes all sorts of crimes.

It's rather the mind-set, or heart-set, I think. For example, I read about a German shoe manufacturer who got rid of all his bank accounts, personal paperwork as much as he could and so on. He says he rarely needs more than 50€ a week and can take that directly out of the company's counter. He says he feels free. He gives out small loans and got problems for that, because only banks are allowed to do that. He says he doesn't respect that law and is not inclined to bend over. That's the spirit. I've met many people who are not spiritually satisfied by material posessions.

Yet capitalism should be a major pillar of a free society, because it's in essence a) private property/capital and b) free market. That's how this shoemaker runs his business and he's a fine example that giving in to endless greed is not a given in a society that is by definition capitalistic, but a personal choice.

I think we are slowly (too slowly currently) starting to break free, I think the planned collapse is forcing it & this is part of why the collapse needs to happen, when that reconsolidation (most likely of the WORLD) happens it will reset any minor forward momentum we currently have.

HOWEVER, IF any of the purported "free energy" (or cheap / easy energy as I like to refer to it) come through I think "our side" will rapidly increase; the need for oil refinement or nuclear power or any other large scale power is a seriously large set of handcuffs, it keeps energy tied to large corporate structures with almost no hope for the "little guy" to become independent of the energy trap.

This is where I think the fulcrum exists, if we can reach it.

A distributed energy grid that can be "cheaply" run will change our society vastly, especially with things like 3-D printers and other innovations. The focus will move away from corporatization and come back to small customized services at a local level, because they make more sense and are generally cheaper (though resource allocation will become the new strangle hold, as law prevents resource gathering on any scale other than miniscule).

I see possibilities, I see hope... I used to agree that we had no hope to speak of but I am not so sure anymore.



In a sense TPTB are just an enhanced version of ourselves.....we as a species are broken so to speak, or perhaps it's a type of sickness/illness that causes us to be caught in this cycle of war, hate, and destruction....Peace and Love constantly penetrate our awareness, we all get to taste it, but something broken within causes us to spit it out of our lives when things get tough or threatening to this evil or sickness of greed/power etc.

Most of us reflect this Rothchild/Rockefeller/Goldman Sachs, etc., type of behavior/sickness, or evil on some level, right down to our own family unit, our community, county, state, nation.......it's everywhere yet we think it is only the most powerful that elite; hence TPTB that must be stopped to fix everything????? Due to this sickness or evil then once the PTB are eliminated, because we carry the same disease/evil it would either be you or I that would take their place and the cycle would in time evolve right back to where it was.....it's like a skipping record so to speak.

Many of us refuse or deny that we could ever take their place at the top, but deep down, many of us would enjoy the power and get lost in the darkness like they at the top are now.....

It's a part of our nature to basically be "naughty" and a sign that something is way out of balance within us or that something is broken.

To break this cycle or cure this sickness IMO doesn't only include eliminating the evil PTB at the top, but also includes eliminating the disease or sickness (evil) within each and everyone of us....

Bammo - absolutely great post, thanks SilentFeathers for not being silent

I watched a study on babies and "goodness" it was on 60 minutes recently & I have meant to bring it to this forum but have yet to.

the summary was this:

Babies (even weeks old) are inherently good & just (they will choose to punish "evil" doers and reward "good" doers) but they are also bigots, this (IMO) goes back to the tribal mentality that anyone different than you or outside your group needs to be pushed away, (even at a minor sacrifice to your self).

This study continued to about 8-10 year olds who had received some social conditioning and the bigotry was completely over come.

Do we have a disease?

No, I do not think so, or at least if we do it is cured by the same method we obtained it.

Nature has a strong role, Nurture can overcome it... I have faith


I highly reccomend watching this:

Born good? Babies help unlock the origins of morality
November 18, 2012 4:53 PM

Can infants tell right from wrong? And if so, how would you know? Come to Yale's baby lab. Lesley Stahl reports
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50135408n

[RMorgan]

Blufire,

I know what you mean, honestly. I´m not defeatist, but well, since most part of people who consider themselves awake and aware are actually doing nothing to change things besides typing words on the internet or throwing their fate in the hands of a bunch of fake gurus who feed them hopium, again, all I can say is that I don´t have much hope for humanity except for a miracle.

I don´t like these folks, the so called elite; If I could, I would finish them off by myself...We really don´t have much of authority to judge them, since most of us have been supporting them by using their products and services. However, It doesn´t really matter how complex their plan may be, they don´t have the right to play games with the whole human race...It´s just not right as far as my understanding of ethics go.

Believe me, all of what these folks do, independently if it ends up good or bad for us, is based on selfishness. Any good results that comes from selfishness is just temporary, a simple result of the circumstances of momentary variables; not good enough for me.

I´m living a happy life, anyway. I´m lucky enough to have a very good plan B in case something bad happens. If something great happens, well, that would be awesome.

All I know is that I´m not subjected to any sort of authority who reached its position by force and manipulation. I admit, I don´t fully understand their plans (who does), but I´ll never respect them. NEVER.

Cheers,

Raf.

[SilentFeathers]

It's not so much what TPTB are doing, but what we are not doing, what we are participating in, and what we are allowing to happen.......

Very few of us if any are innocent, therefore we shall all pay the price in one way or another.

Also, pertaining to free energy, there is no such thing as long as the current STB (systems that be) are functioning in any way what so ever.........

[Hawkwind]

It is the end of seperation we are really talking about. When you really, genuinely look at every other human being as another you, how can you possibly do anything deliberately harmful to them?

Yep, the only real, lasting solution to TPTB is the evolution of human consciousness. And the best place for each of us to start is with ourselves.


I propose simply that we truly do not understand where “They” are leading us.

The preponderance of available evidence suggests that where “They” are leading “Us” is into enslavement or extinction. “They” may see themselves as leading humanity into a brighter future, but that view almost certainly does not include you or I within the definition of human.


Anyway, they are extremely selfish and there´s no margin to think the contrary; If they could, they would kill us all, but they can´t. They are just as dependent of us as we are from them.

As the technologies which allow machines to programmed to behave more like humans and humans to be programmed to behave more like machines continue to develop, their need for individuals outside their complete control will likely diminish.

[gooty64]

TPTBTW & Me & YOU = :grouphug:

[christian]

Whatever step we make towards planning to stop them, they are a hundreds steps ahead.

There is one thing that they're terrified of, humanity awakening to its true potential. That would be game over for the current paradigm. They simply have no way to counter that and are desperate to prevent that from happening.


Anyway, they are extremely selfish and there´s no margin to think the contrary; If they could, they would kill us all, but they can´t. They are just as dependent of us as we are from them.

I think they created the current homo sapiens. They consider us their property. I believe our DNA is incredibly valuable to them. Both the degree to which we need them and the degree to which they need us is what either we or they choose it to be.

This is from the last scene of the movie Matrix:

s8YO5icNGn0
"I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin. I'm going to hang up this phone, and then I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world … without you. A world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries; a world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you."

[enfoldedblue]

The great thing about this forum is the different perspectives that are represented. We all have our specific areas that we are attracted to and as long as we remember that they are not mutually exclusive we actually facilitate a rich multi-dimensional picture. I say this because I feel like my role (and others here) is to remind people of the of the behind the scenes perspective, which is a very important and valid perspective. However, equally important is figuring things out from a real here and now perspective.

So for my behind the scenes/ energetic perspective I would like to add something that I think as been suggested, but not I feel in an obvious enough manner. As multi-dimensional energy beings we are like fractals of God/ the Whole. This means that we contain EVERYTHING. That means that we contain the most vile and horrific aspects of humanity..as they are simply part of the ALL. However, because so many of us are afraid of some of the most horrific aspects we are not able to OWN them and thus we push them away. We fear that if we own the energy we will become it...but this is absolutely not true. We can own the energy without needing to express it. In fact if we are a strong good person we become a sort of guardian for this energy, ensuring it is not used for negative nefarious purposes. I believe that this unclaimed dark energy is what fuels TPTW....I f we all stopped fearing the darkest aspect of ourselves and brought these aspects home to the heart..we would actually be removing/ reclaiming the source of their power.

[ThePythonicCow]

I have come to believe and remember that the future that is discussed over and over in the forums . . free energy, sustainable eco systems, natural resource driven economies, abundance, interaction within the solar system etcetera . . . .is exactly where they are leading us.

I know probably 99% of everyone that reads that last sentence thinks I have gone to the dark side and have lost my ever lovn’ mind. (short trip)

Do I mean that the path they are leading us will be kind to the next several generations? No I do not. But I absolutely do believe that once you come to understand the ‘path’ and what has to happen to get there and what the destination looks like, then you adapt . . . . you reassess and adapt and use the knowledge to soften your own personal path while assisting the outcome we all dream of . . . where ‘they’ are leading us.

Well, for once, I'll have to put myself in the 99% :)

I wonder if one American bison (aka buffalo) could have said this to another, a couple of hundred years ago, as the white man with their thundersticks (rifles) began to invade their land and kill them en masse. "It's OK," says the momma bison to her youngin's, "in a couple of centuries, those of us who remain, those few, will be well tended for on white man's farms."

I suspect that the bastards in charge are not even entirely of the same genetic stock as you or I. But that aside, even if we're all blood relatives, N-th cousins for some N less than a million, it's not just a question of whether individually "they" are good folk like us, it is also a question of whether "their" civilization is integral with ours, or even well intended toward ours.

When I look at the global wars, mass genocides, near extermination of many indigenous tribes and cultures world-wide, rape, murder, torture, lies, disinformation, the poisoning of our air, land, food, seed, water, education, religions, governments, cultures, ... well I may not know for sure if they individually are our genetic cousins or not, but I know for damn sure that they are part of something that ain't right.

[ThePythonicCow]

As multi-dimensional energy beings we are like fractals of God/ the Whole. This means that we contain EVERYTHING. That means that we contain the most vile and horrific aspects of humanity..as they are simply part of the ALL. However, because so many of us are afraid of some of the most horrific aspects we are not able to OWN them and thus we push them away. We fear that if we own the energy we will become it...but this is absolutely not true. We can own the energy without needing to express it.
The purest distilled water likely still has a few atoms of "pollutants." The finest homeopathic remedies, from which every atom of the chosen substance has been diluted away, still has the imprint of that substance.


If we all stopped fearing the darkest aspect of ourselves and brought these aspects home to the heart..we would actually be removing/ reclaiming the source of their power.
Excellent point - thanks. By denying that such darkness is any part of ourselves, by projecting that rejected darkness onto "them", we instill "them" with some of our own denied power. We assume an interest in preserving them and their dark games, because they (as we see them) are a part of us (that we refuse yet to see.)

[gripreaper]

I wonder if one American bison (aka buffalo) could have said this to another, a couple of hundred years ago, as the white man with their thundersticks (rifles) began to invade their land and kill them en masse. "It's OK," says the momma bison to her youngin's, "in a couple of centuries, those of us who remain, those few, will be well tended for on white man's farms

Pretty disgusting.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JFrab6rLQqA/TRqXmkT2osI/AAAAAAAAAMg/4-_nBmgSHVk/s1600/Bison_skull_pile%252C_ca1870.png

[SilentFeathers]

I wonder if one American bison (aka buffalo) could have said this to another, a couple of hundred years ago, as the white man with their thundersticks (rifles) began to invade their land and kill them en masse. "It's OK," says the momma bison to her youngin's, "in a couple of centuries, those of us who remain, those few, will be well tended for on white man's farms

Pretty disgusting.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JFrab6rLQqA/TRqXmkT2osI/AAAAAAAAAMg/4-_nBmgSHVk/s1600/Bison_skull_pile%252C_ca1870.png

These could be the bones of the Native Americans, Jews, and several other peoples of the ages......we as a species are disgusting, the 1% are actually the ones that would not or will not participate in such atrocities or sickness under ANY circumstances.

[blufire]

I wonder if one American bison (aka buffalo) could have said this to another, a couple of hundred years ago, as the white man with their thundersticks (rifles) began to invade their land and kill them en masse. "It's OK," says the momma bison to her youngin's, "in a couple of centuries, those of us who remain, those few, will be well tended for on white man's farms

Pretty disgusting.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JFrab6rLQqA/TRqXmkT2osI/AAAAAAAAAMg/4-_nBmgSHVk/s1600/Bison_skull_pile%252C_ca1870.png


Yes, this is disgusting.

But is this an example of the actions of tptb or just an example of humanity and more to the point the 99%?

The almost extinct America Bison were recently brought back from that designation by privately owned buffalo farms and ranches who were working closely together exchanging certain genetics and bloodlines. . . To bring back the original bison bloodlines as much as possible. I know because I owned and operated one of these farms in Kansas.

[enfoldedblue]

By denying that such darkness is any part of ourselves, by projecting that rejected darkness onto "them", we instill "them" with some of our own denied power. We assume an interest in preserving them and their dark games, because they (as we see them) are a part of us (that we refuse yet to see.)

Thank you for expressing this so well. I believe that they rely on us not being whole beings because once we have truly integrated the darkness...we no longer fear it..and fear is the key to their power.

[ThePythonicCow]

But is this an example of the actions of tptb or just an example of humanity and more to the point the 99%?
Good question.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I believe that they rely on us not being whole beings because once we have truly integrated the darkness...we no longer fear it..and fear is the key to their power.
Yes .

[blufire]

I forgot to mention who led this initiative to bring back the American Plains Buffalo and made many resources available for the private farms and ranches to easily cooperate to make this a very big success in a very short amount of time. . . .

That would be none other than Ted Turner.

And before someone asks the inevitable question . . . he did not benefit one red cent. And the biggest beneficiaries of these new herds of buffalo were the American Plains Indian. The second biggest beneficiaries were those of us who committed to raising our herds hormone and antibiotic free and under strict pasture (food) guidelines.

[skippy]

By denying that such darkness is any part of ourselves, by projecting that rejected darkness onto "them", we instill "them" with some of our own denied power. We assume an interest in preserving them and their dark games, because they (as we see them) are a part of us (that we refuse yet to see.)

Thank you for expressing this so well. I believe that they rely on us not being whole beings because once we have truly integrated the darkness...we no longer fear it..and fear is the key to their power.

Good points Paul & Blue. Can the powers be stopped? Well what powers are we exactly talking about; Some uncontrolled powers of our own turning against us? A sort of like a twisting boomerang hitting us in the neck...? Sometimes it's good to stay in bed for a while, think things over...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acb15JsCGSk

[TargeT]

By denying that such darkness is any part of ourselves, by projecting that rejected darkness onto "them", we instill "them" with some of our own denied power. We assume an interest in preserving them and their dark games, because they (as we see them) are a part of us (that we refuse yet to see.)

Thank you for expressing this so well. I believe that they rely on us not being whole beings because once we have truly integrated the darkness...we no longer fear it..and fear is the key to their power.

Good points Paul & Blue. Can the powers be stopped? Well what powers are we exactly talking about; Some uncontrolled powers of our own turning against us? A sort of like a twisting boomerang hitting us in the neck...? Sometimes it's good to stay in bed for a while, think things over...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acb15JsCGSk

Until we look inside, until we admit we are the same as the pedophiles, the murders, the worst of the worst (which funny enough, is different for each of us & COMPLETELY perspective based) I do not condone what they do; but if I am to accept(and I feel that is key) that we are all god, we are splintered consciousness expressed in 7 billion different view points in an effort to fully experience all that 3d reality can offer, if that doesn't happen then we are stuck in duality..... Duality that must be kept in majority to continue this visceral lower vibrational reality.

If that doesn't change...

Then we continue to experience that which seems to be preferential to who ever is holding knowledge from the "99%" and indoctrinating at every turn, desperately trying to cling to what they have...

I think this is the reality of the "spiritual" movement; the teaching that must happen to break the majority from what "is" ( or at least is the guided perception of what is).

Breaking free of the day to day control structure will help, & I choose to focus on this; specifically the energy aspect.

[applecrusher1992]

Yes we will defeat the powers that were totally and completely. And they will get what they deserve.

[blufire]

I think we should first identify exactly who we are all talking about here.

Exactly who are TPTB?

Which group or level in the hierarchy?

I see in these type threads that everyone has a different ideal or view on who their ‘personal’ tptb are. . . . .

Usually I generally post in the vain of who ‘I think’ most here on Avalon are referring to as tptb which are the wealthy to ultra wealthy.

It is my personal belief that this ‘level’ of ptb is actually no more powerful or able to control than we are . . .they only have a bunch more money which is meaningless.

Perhaps to be more effective in these types of threads we should first identify exactly who we are talking about. . . . . is there a diagram somewhere that we can all refer too?

The banner on this forum says ‘. . . where science and spirituality meet”. Perhaps we should be much more scientific in first establishing workable parameters of just who we are referring to so we can move forward more effectively.

[Grumpy Cat]

TPTB in my opinion, just have too much power. They have become greedy. Whether this is down to a human element or ET's, who knows but our sheer force of will, will prevail. Think of Goku in Dragonball Z. We all *all* Goku. And soon we will unleash his ultimate move: The Spirit Bomb! :D

[RMorgan]

I think we should first identify exactly who we are all talking about here.

Exactly who are TPTB?

Which group or level in the hierarchy?

I see in these type threads that everyone has a different ideal or view on who their ‘personal’ tptb are. . . . .

Usually I generally post in the vain of who ‘I think’ most here on Avalon are referring to as tptb which are the wealthy to ultra wealthy.

It is my personal belief that this ‘level’ of ptb is actually no more powerful or able to control than we are . . .they only have a bunch more money which is meaningless.

Perhaps to be more effective in these types of threads we should first identify exactly who we are talking about. . . . . is there a diagram somewhere that we can all refer too?

The banner on this forum says ‘. . . where science and spirituality meet”. Perhaps we should be much more scientific in first establishing workable parameters of just who we are referring to so we can move forward more effectively.

Hi again, blufire.

Well, as far as we can say, without falling into deep speculations, is that what we call TPTB, contains many levels; Most of them independent from each other.

First, there are heads of the known bloodlines which have been in charge of managing our political, social and economical affairs for centuries. This persons are highly discrete and we don´t see them around on the media. They are also the heads of extremely secretive occultist sects. They don´t go to parties, political conventions or any conventional social meetings. Possibly we couldn´t even officially connect them to these bloodlines. They are very much anonymous. We could call them the CEOs of TPTB. They are the minds behind the gang. Very possibly they don´t even know each other, as a protective measure. Whenever they meet, they probably wear masks, a la KKK style. Maybe they don´t even get to meet each other in person.(King)

Second, there are the known ultra-mega-rich, the bank owners who end up owning most of our economical structure, including the stock market and central banks. These folks are in charge of the financial aspect of the gang; The FEOs. (Queen)

Then, there are the multi-billionaires, the heads and major stockholders of the regular multinational corporations. Most of them have no knowledge of the above levels, but some of them do. They´re mostly greedy persons who will do anything for money. They´re mere executives. They´ll do anything to climb all the way to the top.(Rooks)

Then, there are the intelligence agencies from all around the world; MI6, CIA, KGB, MOSSAD...They all work for the same boss. They´re the ones who do the really dirty work. These are multi-level organizations, with hierarchic levels either above and bellow the official political authorities.(Bishops)

Then, there are the politicians, who is basically their PR department. They look nice, smile and make promises but they have no autonomy or real authority whatsoever. They just obey orders from above. (Knights)

Finally, there are the high ranking military; who just obey orders directly or indirectly from all the above levels without questioning. (pawns)

Anyway, this organization is extremely complex. Since it´s formed by multiple level cells. "Cell" is a very good word to represent them, since whenever a cell dies, another one instantly replaces it, but the body as a whole remains the same.

Since I´m already doing an association with Chess; Then we may be considered the chess board; There´s no game without us. We´re the ones who make it all possible.

Cheers,

Raf.

[blufire]

First, there are heads of the known bloodlines which have been in charge of managing our political, social and economical affairs for centuries. This persons are highly discrete and we don´t see them around on the media. They are also the heads of extremely secretive occultist sects. They don´t go to parties, political conventions or any conventional social meetings. Possibly we couldn´t even officially connect them to these bloodlines. They are very much anonymous. We could call them the CEOs of TPTB. They are the minds behind the gang. Very possibly they don´t even know each other, as a protective measure. Whenever they meet, they probably wear masks, a la KKK style. Maybe they don´t even get to meet each other in person.(King)

I agree with your overall assessment of the possible hierarchy or diagram of tptb.

So Avalon digesting what RMorgan his identified here . . . Can TPTB Be Stopped? If you cannot see that this thought process is highly impossible (stopping ‘them’) then we have no Hope. Instead approach from a place of different understanding.

Again, I come back to what RMorgan proposed in his post #38 . . . Should they be stopped?

As well as, I refer back to my post #97. I do not believe that we . . . the ones at the outer edges of the ‘diagram’ . . . can begin to understand where ‘they’ are leading us.

Since my return back to the mountains I grew up in I have begun to ‘remember things’ . . . concepts that have eluded me for the past 30 years have begun to clear and coalesce. I have begun to see a future that is very beautiful for most of humanity, but we will endure great hardship in achieving and building this future.

I believe there is another ‘level’ beyond . . . not above . . beyond the head bloodlines that RMorgan speaks of in his assessment . . . are they human? Yes, I believe they are, but as I said in post #97 I believe that the responsibility they have due to the knowledge ‘they’ have received centuries ago has morphed their genetic/dna structure.

They were dealt a hand that required them to make immortal decisions from a mortal mind and heart. Preserve the planet and humanity and a specific genome and in doing this knowing hundreds of millions would die through the centuries OR make the decision to not even try.

I believe and am remembering that they took on this responsibility not only for themselves (at the beginning) but for their generations that would follow.

Look where humanity has come over the past 30,000 years (and I specifically name that general number) . . . look at our technology . . . .look beyond where this technology and science and spirituality will take us . . . . it is not science or technology or spirituality we have formed . . . 'they' did and are.

We through their shepherding are going to make ‘this time’ work . . we will make it through the events they have full knowledge of ‘this time’ and go beyond to the world and future we dream of . . . . not dream of . . . that we know.

And we in this generation and the generations leading up to the future have the choice to ‘hear the information’ . . . they are giving us and what we need to know to take care of ourselves, now and to live an abundant life now . . . each of us is given the choice through freewill and though rising up to the Destiny we chose before coming to this time and this place. We have the knowledge we need in this time and place.

Yes there is a filtering down not only through the hierarchy but through the folds of time of what has and what will happen. And this filtering through all the mire that is Humanity we have a plethora of epic paths that take us many places . . . many bad and many good . . . but I have come to believe and am remembering that ‘they’ are there urging us back to the path we need to remain on to take Humanity ‘this time’ to the Future and Beyond.

We will make it this time . . . . but ‘Iron Sharpens Iron’ and there are the ‘Givers and the Takers’.

But through it all Humanity will make it ‘this time’ . . . .

[TargeT]

I think we should first identify exactly who we are all talking about here.

Exactly who are TPTB?

Which group or level in the hierarchy?

I see in these type threads that everyone has a different ideal or view on who their ‘personal’ tptb are. . . . .

Usually I generally post in the vain of who ‘I think’ most here on Avalon are referring to as tptb which are the wealthy to ultra wealthy.

It is my personal belief that this ‘level’ of ptb is actually no more powerful or able to control than we are . . .they only have a bunch more money which is meaningless.

Perhaps to be more effective in these types of threads we should first identify exactly who we are talking about. . . . . is there a diagram somewhere that we can all refer too?

The banner on this forum says ‘. . . where science and spirituality meet”. Perhaps we should be much more scientific in first establishing workable parameters of just who we are referring to so we can move forward more effectively.

I like to refer to this video for that question:

8 veils of deception:
dy43UEaIWXE

while it doesn't exactly answer your question, it sort of outlines a very plausable hierarchy.

[christian]

Look where humanity has come over the past 30,000 years (and I specifically name that general number) . . . look at our technology . . . .look beyond where this technology and science and spirituality will take us

How I'd love to do that, look back over the true history. From what I see now, there must have been advanced civilizations, they may have been human or from elsewhere, they may have achieved great technological and mental feats, that's a deep rabbit hole. Our technology and mental feats may be but a shadow of what had been achieved before. I guess I'm not surprising many people here with that statement. :biggrin1:

[Arrowwind]

Generally, every time you take out your wallet or cedit card you cast a vote for the PTB and reinforce their power, unless what ever you are purchasing is locally made by businesses that are environmentally sound, on US soil and subject to US and local jurisdiction -( or what ever soil you reside on.) When we all stop playing the game then the ptb will loose their power. Are you ready? It can either be voluntary or though a collapse scenario.

[RUSirius]

The brains on this forum, are marvelous, the detail of thought that is put on "paper" astounds me at times. This topic hurts my head, I am not as well versed in certain topics of our history as others on this forum. I have NO answers. I can not see a smooth transition from old to new societal structures, not even smooth, I dont think I see a successful one, unless something is already underway, or the foundation of something new is well in place to a certain degree, but it just has not been revealed yet. Possible, but in my opinion, not probable, like a global surprise party that most of us do not know about yet. I said this before in a previous post that a miracle may be the only way for success, there are just too many unlike minded people on this planet (it seems) to get the momentum and unity needed for such a huge task. I remain hopeful, not doubtful none-the-less.

[christian]

Generally, every time you take out your wallet or cedit card you cast a vote for the PTB and reinforce their power, unless what ever you are purchasing is locally made by businesses that are environmentally sound, on US soil and subject to US and local jurisdiction -( or what ever soil you reside on.) When we all stop playing the game then the ptb will loose their power.

If you use "their currencies," even if you purchase and support something "good," you still are on their grid in a way. But it's of course not black and white, we change grids gradually, with small and big steps, all are valuable.

[SilentFeathers]

Generally, every time you take out your wallet or cedit card you cast a vote for the PTB and reinforce their power, unless what ever you are purchasing is locally made by businesses that are environmentally sound, on US soil and subject to US and local jurisdiction -( or what ever soil you reside on.) When we all stop playing the game then the ptb will loose their power.

If you use "their currencies," even if you purchase and support something "good," you still are on their grid in a way. But it's of course not black and white, we change grids gradually, with small and big steps, all are valuable.

A lot of it has to do with "intention"...that is; if you use a bit of money to buy food and feed your kids, well, that's good intention...

But if you buy drugs and wack out and your kids are crying because you spent your money on drugs instead of food, well, that's bad intention....

Same at the top with the PTB......they have the intention to buy weapons and poison...to dominate and kill, when they should be using their intention to do more productive and compassionate things.

The current systems in place might work a bit better with "good intentions" driving them....

[RUSirius]

[QUOTE=Arrowwind;590394][COLOR=darkorchid

If you use "their currencies," even if you purchase and support something "good," you still are on their grid in a way. But it's of course not black and white, we change grids gradually, with small and big steps, all are valuable.

Yes, Christian very well said, both small and big steps all valuable. The other thing is this TPTB losing power could be one of those "cant see the forest through the trees" things, where there is a path, its already been laid, but to those of us on the "ground" we just cant see the way out yet, even though its there waiting for us.

[RMorgan]

Look where humanity has come over the past 30,000 years (and I specifically name that general number) . . . look at our technology . . . .look beyond where this technology and science and spirituality will take us

How I'd love to do that, look back over the true history. From what I see now, there must have been advanced civilizations, they may have been human or from elsewhere, they may have achieved great technological and mental feats, that's a deep rabbit hole. Our technology and mental feats may be but a shadow of what had been achieved before. I guess I'm not surprising many people here with that statement. :biggrin1:

Hey Chris,

I hear about these supposedly highly technologically advanced civilizations all the time, but I´ve never seen any piece of evidence that proves that they ever existed.

I´ve read a lot of speculative hypothesis and nice stories about them, but that´s it; Just hypothesis and stories, not even theories.

Any solid, tangible evidence would be enough to convince me; An object made of an advanced alloy or composite material, pieces or parts of advanced machinery, parts of any sort of highly complex mechanisms...

If such civilizations were so big an prosper, we would find evidence of their technology all over the world. Just like thousands of years from now, another civilization will find evidence of our technology everywhere.

Don´t get me wrong, my friend, but I´m out of this thing of believing something just because someone told me so, because I´ve read it in a book or because someone uploaded a cool video on youtube.

I guess I became hardened by this gigantic amount of disinformation and nonsense that people try to sell me every day since I was born.

Anyway, as far as I know, as far as I can prove, we are incredibly more technologically advanced than all civilizations that ever stepped on this planet combined.

This is just my opinion anyway; I don´t intend to derail the thread. I´m more interested in the present than the past.

Cheers,

Raf.

[Anchor]

A lot of it has to do with "intention"...that is; if you use a bit of money to buy food and feed your kids, well, that's good intention...

But if you buy drugs and wack out and your kids are crying because you spent your money on drugs instead of food, well, that's bad intention....

Same at the top with the PTB......they have the intention to buy weapons and poison...to dominate and kill, when they should be using their intention to do more productive and compassionate things.

The current systems in place might work a bit better with "good intentions" driving them....

This is very well expressed IMO, and I totally agree that this is the way things work.

We may not understand the true power we wield this way as it is largely beyond finite and linear time bound thinking, but I am sure this is the way the wheels turn.

[christian]

I hear about these supposedly highly technologically advanced civilizations all the time, but I´ve never seen any piece of evidence that proves that they ever existed.

I´ve read a lot of speculative hypothesis and nice stories about them, but that´s it; Just hypothesis and stories, not even theories.

What kind of leftovers could one expect? Only stuff in stone, I guess. Adam's Calender is a great example in my eyes. From what I've read it's like 75,000 years old and a precise star map. So something must have been going on. There are other hints to stuff in the past, but all I'm saying is, we don't have the history of the last 30,000 years straight. Well we don't even have all the info on the present.

The other stuff, that could be left over, would be memories, if that is possible. Dolores Cannon's books are full of that, past life regressions. Admittedly, some individual accounts there are in part contradictory. However, this may in part be due to assumptions or subjective perceptions one had in that particular lifetime, so that this "false" information is transmitted unchanged. Or those stories may be all delusional in a way. I do past life regressions, learned that from Dolores, I just wanna help people to live an enriched and empowered life. As long as her technique produces good results in that way, I'm in for it. But I'm willing to entertain any theory as to where the past-life-insights might come from. In any case, this is an interesting phenomenon.

I feel intuitive talents, paranormal talents if you will, are a great tool for developing and growing individually and collectively. I'm definitely sure about the reality of those (or I'm delusional to the core). I've also had visions and dreams of stuff that later happened, so this was proven. I have also had visions about things in the past, but I wasn't able to confirm that, best I got was a psychic telling me the same without having told her my story. But in general those intuitive feats, as they are useful in the present and seem to help in looking at future possibilities or events, may be a somewhat good tool to examine the past as well.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

My gut feeling is that the only way to win this game is to upgrade the human species with increased perception, including the ability to put experience into a rational perspective. Whatever the solution is, we need to do most of the work.

I suspect that this experience is part of a multidimensional chess game played at many levels.

How can an eternal being make mistakes on a path of learning? The being creates, then jumps in to experience the creation, then creates something new. But at my level of awareness, all I see is what I've created in this lifetime. The ability to see more of creation, the past, the future, make changes and monitor potential outcomes would be a great gift.

Love and wisdom must be part of creative process to evolve beyond a certain threshold.

[PurpleLama]

TPTB in my opinion, just have too much power. They have become greedy. Whether this is down to a human element or ET's, who knows but our sheer force of will, will prevail. Think of Goku in Dragonball Z. We all *all* Goku. And soon we will unleash his ultimate move: The Spirit Bomb! :D

Oh, hell yeah!

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/60480/1278760-genkidama_super.jpg

[Fred Steeves]

I´m more interested in the present than the past.


Is there a difference Raf?

[SilentFeathers]

I´m more interested in the present than the past.


Is there a difference Raf?

I personally think there is a BIG difference....and in about ten minutes from now I'll be frying some spuds with mushrooms, onions, garlic, and some other good ingredients/spices and in another pan some sausages will be sizzlin and nothing else other than that will be more important than that at the moment :)

That is if I am still here in 10 minutes from now :)

[RMorgan]

I´m more interested in the present than the past.


Is there a difference Raf?

Hey Fred,

My point is that what has passed has passed; there´s no way to go back, no way to fix what has already been done. It´s important to look at the past, of course, mostly to avoid making the same mistakes over and over again.

However, if we work in the now, we´re looking for what´s happening at this exact moment and to the enormous amount of possibilities that will shape our future.

Only if we focus on acting now, doing what has to be done now, we´ll be able to have a glorious past that we could be proud of.

Anyway, to sum up, I was mostly referring to the present objectively, not metaphysically. :)

Cheers,

Raf.

[christian]

What about the notion of time travellers coming here from the future from a catastrophic timeline to change their present through changing their past, our present?

Or about the idea, that when you do anything at any time, you change the whole fabric of time and space?

Even if you only change your attitude about a past event, doesn't that somehow "change" the event as well as your present state of being? And this new state of being, doesn't that prompt you to do particular things now and in the future? Wouldn't that mean, just changing your attitude changes your past, present, and future?

Just rambling! :hat:

[SilentFeathers]

What about the notion of time travellers coming here from the future from a catastrophic timeline to change their present through changing their past, our present?

Or about the idea, that when you do anything at any time, you change the whole fabric of time and space?

Even if you only change your attitude about a past event, doesn't that somehow "change" the event as well as your present state of being? And this new state of being, doesn't that prompt you to do particular things now and in the future? Wouldn't that mean, just changing your attitude changes your past, present, and future?

Just rambling! :hat:

I'm just rambin too.......

I personally do not think a time traveler could affect us here, but could only be from here now going somewhere else other than here (Earth), to a different time somewhere else away from here....this moment now is a once of a life time or a universal "one time" thing IMO....it will never be again nor can ever be re-lived or accessed again.

The energy from time may be recorded somehow and accessed like a CD somehow, but other than that, life/souls can not just be re-created for a time travelers purpose.

I feel if this was possible (time traveling) we would be dealing with it time and time again in our everyday lives now....

[RMorgan]

What about the notion of time travellers coming here from the future from a catastrophic timeline to change their present through changing their past, our present?

Man, this is one of my preferred subjects to speculate about! :)

Sometimes I think that the simple fact of a time traveler going back to the past may affect the future in a complete unpredictable way. There are so many variables involved! It really blows up my mind ( and I love it).

You know, if a time traveler goes back to the past, even the most ordinary thing, like him running over a dog with his car may completely reshape the future; If he´s unlucky enough to accidentally kill a god which was supposed to bite a pregnant woman causing her to lose the baby, preventing her to give birth to the next Hitler...Then, when the traveler goes back to the future he may find a completely different world, ruled by this Hitler kid who was supposed to be dead in the first place!

Or maybe the dog was supposed to save the traveler´s mother from being murdered by a criminal, long before she was supposed to meet his father. Then, when he accidentally kills the dog he stops existing instantly.

Time traveling is a very dangerous thing... :)

[Fred Steeves]

Anyway, to sum up, I was mostly referring to the present objectively, not metaphysically. :)


Me Too...http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/cheers.gif

Fred

[SilentFeathers]

What about the notion of time travellers coming here from the future from a catastrophic timeline to change their present through changing their past, our present?

Man, this is one of my preferred subjects to speculate about! :)

Sometimes I think that the simple fact of a time traveler going back to the past may affect the future in a complete unpredictable way. There are so many variables involved! It really blows up my mind ( and I love it).

You know, if a time traveler goes back to the past, even the most ordinary thing, like him running over a dog with his car may completely reshape the future; If he´s unlucky enough to accidentally kill a god which was supposed to bite a pregnant woman causing her to lose the baby, preventing her to give birth to the next Hitler...Then, when the traveler goes back to the future he may find a completely different world, ruled by this Hitler kid who was supposed to be dead in the first place!

Or maybe the dog was supposed to save the traveler´s mother from being murdered by a criminal, long before she was supposed to meet his father. Then, when he accidentally kills the dog he stops existing instantly.

Time traveling is a very dangerous thing... :)

I just don't see this being possible Raf, atleast not in our reality and how we exist in the here and now....if time travel did exist it would be a whole different reality than what we are experiencing now, nothing would matter and IMO opinion things would be so interfered with from time travelers that even the here and now would be extremely distorted and uninhabitable....even the here and now would not able to be constructed as we see and be in it now...

Souls would be beyond trapped, they would be destroyed at the first attempt "to go back or forward" IMO.

[christian]

With our limited human comprehension it's virtually impossible to grasp what could be possible, I think. Applying limited human logic to how the universe works just doesn't apply. Maybe there are higher beings, keepers of time, who permit only a limited form of time travel. If time travel is possible, there could be so many obstacles and laws to it, whether natural or imposed by beings, but then again, where is the difference between those two options eventually since everything is consciousness and nature is a being as well?

You might wanna check out "Daniel's" paper on time and timelines (http://www.soldierhugs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Time-and-Timelines-1.pdf). He allegedly worked at Montauk, which was about time travel among other things, they say.

[RUSirius]

Well if time travel is possible, which I bet it is, but dont know because I have no memory of doing so, then we should be able to go into the future too, if there are keepers of time/fabric of time/"watchers" of many different possible things, merging timelines, dividing time lines unlimited potentials, then at least presently in my state of being it is too much to understand, I like the idea mentioned earlier and the possibilities of a "human being upgrade" but presently to me since I have no conscious knowledge of this it remains just an idea. And people on this forum whom I have read who "see" wonderful things in the future, joyous times, unimaginable good things and soon none the less, have they "seen" our future or someone else future where timelines or realities were interfering with each other or was it really ours. I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

[SilentFeathers]

If time travel was possible and happening, everyone would be doing it and free will and purpose would have no meaning or be irrelevant IMO....the here and now would cease to exist or would not be because it would never be "stable" or able to manifest due to all the disruption/interference from all the dudes and dudettes time traveling and causing so many "breaks" in the here and now (especially those who break past rhythms)....

Nope, I doubt if anyone can convince me that time travel is possible in our reality or in our here and now as it is...........

[Kiforall]

Look where humanity has come over the past 30,000 years (and I specifically name that general number) . . . look at our technology . . . .look beyond where this technology and science and spirituality will take us

How I'd love to do that, look back over the true history. From what I see now, there must have been advanced civilizations, they may have been human or from elsewhere, they may have achieved great technological and mental feats, that's a deep rabbit hole. Our technology and mental feats may be but a shadow of what had been achieved before. I guess I'm not surprising many people here with that statement. :biggrin1:

Hey Chris,

I hear about these supposedly highly technologically advanced civilizations all the time, but I´ve never seen any piece of evidence that proves that they ever existed.

I´ve read a lot of speculative hypothesis and nice stories about them, but that´s it; Just hypothesis and stories, not even theories.

Any solid, tangible evidence would be enough to convince me; An object made of an advanced alloy or composite material, pieces or parts of advanced machinery, parts of any sort of highly complex mechanisms...

If such civilizations were so big an prosper, we would find evidence of their technology all over the world. Just like thousands of years from now, another civilization will find evidence of our technology everywhere.

Don´t get me wrong, my friend, but I´m out of this thing of believing something just because someone told me so, because I´ve read it in a book or because someone uploaded a cool video on youtube.

I guess I became hardened by this gigantic amount of disinformation and nonsense that people try to sell me every day since I was born.

Anyway, as far as I know, as far as I can prove, we are incredibly more technologically advanced than all civilizations that ever stepped on this planet combined.

This is just my opinion anyway; I don´t intend to derail the thread. I´m more interested in the present than the past.

Cheers,

Raf.

If I was as powerful as the PTW or whatever the hell name they deserve I would ensure the evidence that you require to back up any theories was well and truly buried.

:confused: I wonder if they are capable of that?

Zoe x

[RMorgan]

Look where humanity has come over the past 30,000 years (and I specifically name that general number) . . . look at our technology . . . .look beyond where this technology and science and spirituality will take us

How I'd love to do that, look back over the true history. From what I see now, there must have been advanced civilizations, they may have been human or from elsewhere, they may have achieved great technological and mental feats, that's a deep rabbit hole. Our technology and mental feats may be but a shadow of what had been achieved before. I guess I'm not surprising many people here with that statement. :biggrin1:

Hey Chris,

I hear about these supposedly highly technologically advanced civilizations all the time, but I´ve never seen any piece of evidence that proves that they ever existed.

I´ve read a lot of speculative hypothesis and nice stories about them, but that´s it; Just hypothesis and stories, not even theories.

Any solid, tangible evidence would be enough to convince me; An object made of an advanced alloy or composite material, pieces or parts of advanced machinery, parts of any sort of highly complex mechanisms...

If such civilizations were so big an prosper, we would find evidence of their technology all over the world. Just like thousands of years from now, another civilization will find evidence of our technology everywhere.

Don´t get me wrong, my friend, but I´m out of this thing of believing something just because someone told me so, because I´ve read it in a book or because someone uploaded a cool video on youtube.

I guess I became hardened by this gigantic amount of disinformation and nonsense that people try to sell me every day since I was born.

Anyway, as far as I know, as far as I can prove, we are incredibly more technologically advanced than all civilizations that ever stepped on this planet combined.

This is just my opinion anyway; I don´t intend to derail the thread. I´m more interested in the present than the past.

Cheers,

Raf.

If I was as powerful as the PTW or whatever the hell name they deserve I would ensure the evidence that you require to back up any theories was well and truly buried.

:confused: I wonder if they are capable of that?

Zoe x

Hey mate,

Well, I don´t think that´s possible.

If such technologically advanced races have really existed, it would be close to impossible to track down, locate and remove every bit of evidence scattered around the world, even only around a single continent, without being noticed.

Also, regular persons would find these high-tech artifacts all around the globe.

Saying that they could cover their presence is the same as saying that someone could cover up the existence of the dinosaurs.

Raf.

[Wind]

If such technologically advanced races have really existed, it would be close to impossible to track down, locate and remove every bit of evidence scattered around the world, even only around a single continent, without being noticed.

Also, regular persons would find these high-tech artifacts all around the globe.

Saying that they could cover their presence is the same as saying that someone could cover up the existence of the dinosaurs.

Raf.

You might find Graham Hancock's theories & research interesting. At least I do!

X4k8pdJ2so4

[Kiforall]

Look where humanity has come over the past 30,000 years (and I specifically name that general number) . . . look at our technology . . . .look beyond where this technology and science and spirituality will take us

How I'd love to do that, look back over the true history. From what I see now, there must have been advanced civilizations, they may have been human or from elsewhere, they may have achieved great technological and mental feats, that's a deep rabbit hole. Our technology and mental feats may be but a shadow of what had been achieved before. I guess I'm not surprising many people here with that statement. :biggrin1:

Hey Chris,

I hear about these supposedly highly technologically advanced civilizations all the time, but I´ve never seen any piece of evidence that proves that they ever existed.

I´ve read a lot of speculative hypothesis and nice stories about them, but that´s it; Just hypothesis and stories, not even theories.

Any solid, tangible evidence would be enough to convince me; An object made of an advanced alloy or composite material, pieces or parts of advanced machinery, parts of any sort of highly complex mechanisms...

If such civilizations were so big an prosper, we would find evidence of their technology all over the world. Just like thousands of years from now, another civilization will find evidence of our technology everywhere.

Don´t get me wrong, my friend, but I´m out of this thing of believing something just because someone told me so, because I´ve read it in a book or because someone uploaded a cool video on youtube.

I guess I became hardened by this gigantic amount of disinformation and nonsense that people try to sell me every day since I was born.

Anyway, as far as I know, as far as I can prove, we are incredibly more technologically advanced than all civilizations that ever stepped on this planet combined.

This is just my opinion anyway; I don´t intend to derail the thread. I´m more interested in the present than the past.

Cheers,

Raf.

If I was as powerful as the PTW or whatever the hell name they deserve I would ensure the evidence that you require to back up any theories was well and truly buried.

:confused: I wonder if they are capable of that?

Zoe x

Hey mate,

Well, I don´t think that´s possible.

If such technologically advanced races have really existed, it would be close to impossible to track down, locate and remove every bit of evidence scattered around the world, even only around a single continent, without being noticed.

Also, regular persons would find these high-tech artifacts all around the globe.

Saying that they could cover their presence is the same as saying that someone could cover up the existence of the dinosaurs.

Raf.

What if the ones they missed were located by the higher goodies. They might believe we are not ready yet?

Zoe x

[Youniverse]

Whew! It takes a little reading to catch up on this thread, ha ha. As I'm sure many or most of you have realised here is that we're throwing ideas back and forth on various levels. Social, economic, technological, spiritual, mental, etc. For me personally, if the spiritual is not attended to primarily with the greatest enthusiasm, all the others become meaningless and folly. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good talk on technology, or social issues, or whatever, but their implications pale in comparison to that of the spirit. This is why I do not fear the PTB or PTW or whatever you want to call them. Go ahead and kill me! I don't fear death. This body is just the lowest vibratory aspect of my being. Destroy it and I come back again and again and again until I've had enough or learnt enough. then I start it all over again. So do all of you in my opinion. We are in a video game folks. Choosing to control this body right now to satisfy our highest desires.

I appreciate the info. from those of you that have spoken on the power, hierarchy, etc. of the PTB, but it is NOTHING. I repeat, NOTHING, when compared to the power of that spark of consciousness with you and me. When enough of us have realised this it is game over for the PTB, period. The knowledge that the human mind can hold, even collectively amongst elitest groups, is only a teeny tiny fraction of the knowledge harnessed when someone connects with the source. Of course, the perspective changes very rapidly all the while, because one no longer cares any more, really cares that is, when that understanding of what really matters happens.

I am not saying I have achieved and stabilised this supreme state of being as yet. I have to continually work at it like all of you. The only reason I take any time to discuss these kinds of topics is for the pure enjoyment of it. It is a sincere pleasure to hear all of this from all of you, my brothers and sisters. We are ONE you know. We are different masks on the same face. I cannot disown the PTB because they are a part of me, and I them. I earnestly wish to create heaven on earth, not because of any prophecy, or justice through experiencing the triumph of good over evil, but simply because it is one of my highest visions of enjoyment right now. For the pure enjoyment of that experience, and because I feel it resonates very closely with my sense of who I am.

To your question Fred about is there a difference between the past and the future. From where I stand right now, no, there isn't. All is happening right now when we consider the simultaneity of experience. We are just becoming more aware of this fact. Take our limited human frame of reference (3d perspective) out of the picture and what do you have? No time? No space. Or perhaps at first a greater understanding of the connection and interchagebility of these two variables. I believe time travel has been done and will be done again. I believe teleportation has been done and will again. I believe disclosure has and will happen more and more in our "time." These things just ARE, in my reality. This will not and need not be the same as your reality. Yes I believe we are also pieces of GOD but not pieces in the sense of being something fragmentary, rather, localized and individualized expressions of the divine.

Again, my point to all of this is not to dismiss or disrespect any comments made here on this topic. Only to emphasize the point that when you've "died" only to realize death is an illusion, what is there left to fear? The PTB? What real power do they hold? Power of the material realm, yes. So they have power over something that is, as quantum science can even prove to us, is an illusion, imaginary at best. They reign supreme over an image set on a screen we call our life. The only thing that is REAL, is the one that observes that screen. We can even say the screen and the projector is not possible without the one that observes it because the one is the projector itself. Do the PTB understand all this in its intricacies? Perhaps some of them do. I doubt it though. Could one understand the true value of human life and still subjugate or otherwise suppress it from its natural state of freedom in its highest expression? We are freedom and that's synonymous with love. They are love too, they have only forgotten this. We are remebering and this is why we cannot fail.

[lake]

Back to the original post, no you will have a hard time to stop them.
For the simple reasons that this post of 1 year ago states, and NOTHING HAS CHANGED.


Ok, playing the side of THE BANKER, what can you do to me?
I can print your debt notes whenever I wish and as much as I wish, all this does is make you owe me more and your food etc cost more! Will it affect me , no.
I own all government, the few (3 now) which I don't, I send your sons and daughters to rape for me. Will it affect me, no.
I own all your law and can remove you at any time I wish, can you do any thing about this? No because your own sons and daughters willingly fight you for me.
If you remove "YOUR" money from one of my subsidiaries, so what, I can create another or enforce a purchase of the one you trust, or just destroy it using your "people"!
I know, because your own have kept me informed, who you are and where you are! Do you know who I am? Could you do anything if you did? No.

What can you, millions of you, actually do to me?

NOTHING.

Enjoy :p

[christian]

People already figured it all out decades and centuries ago, if not longer.


NOTHING HAS CHANGED.

Well you surely don't speak for me or for the environment that I perceive. :P

But it is and will be tough -- the toughest.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_N0TSGcQUzgU/SZMFf4gwoAI/AAAAAAAAArI/5bLq1eTZrzM/s640/4c225ec4fbab7f4cbb8409616565dc3b-orig.jpg

[Chester]

The great thing about this forum is the different perspectives that are represented. We all have our specific areas that we are attracted to and as long as we remember that they are not mutually exclusive we actually facilitate a rich multi-dimensional picture. I say this because I feel like my role (and others here) is to remind people of the of the behind the scenes perspective, which is a very important and valid perspective. However, equally important is figuring things out from a real here and now perspective.

So for my behind the scenes/ energetic perspective I would like to add something that I think as been suggested, but not I feel in an obvious enough manner. As multi-dimensional energy beings we are like fractals of God/ the Whole. This means that we contain EVERYTHING. That means that we contain the most vile and horrific aspects of humanity..as they are simply part of the ALL. However, because so many of us are afraid of some of the most horrific aspects we are not able to OWN them and thus we push them away. We fear that if we own the energy we will become it...but this is absolutely not true. We can own the energy without needing to express it. In fact if we are a strong good person we become a sort of guardian for this energy, ensuring it is not used for negative nefarious purposes. I believe that this unclaimed dark energy is what fuels TPTW....I f we all stopped fearing the darkest aspect of ourselves and brought these aspects home to the heart..we would actually be removing/ reclaiming the source of their power.

If there be any problem here on earth, this post by enfoldedblue covered all the bases and in two simple paragraphs, something I am not very good at.

She expressed the medium through which we manifest, she described the problem and she offered what appears to me to be a solidly valid solution.

One of the best posts I ever came across on the Avalon forum, thank you, enfoldedblue

[Chester]

Yes, this is disgusting. {the pile of skulls shown in the pic above}

But is this an example of the actions of tptb or just an example of humanity and more to the point the 99%?

The almost extinct America Bison were recently brought back from that designation by privately owned buffalo farms and ranches who were working closely together exchanging certain genetics and bloodlines. . . To bring back the original bison bloodlines as much as possible. I know because I owned and operated one of these farms in Kansas.

In fact, in watching an anti-PTB video I found in this very thread, I learned that Ted Turner (one of the so called evil PTBs) happens to be one of the largest land owners in America. When challenged about that, he stated he procured the property in part so that he could provide a preserve for the bison so they could begin to increase their numbers safely.

We are all this - good and evil within us. If we can get past the us/them dynamic and figure out it is really all and only us (just my humblest opinion), we move towards a better future much more rapidly.

I see the planet in many ways metaphorically, but one way is like two kids on a seesaw (teeter-totter). Have you ever been on a see saw and tried to move to the center? The other kid has to begin to do the same. Our projections about the "evil them" keeps both parties at the extreme ends of the seesaw. The swings are more dramatic and the distances between the ups and downs are greater.

We have to move towards the center and this, in my opinion is what the PTBs want us to do. They know that we have a serious issue with something all of us have to deal with including the PTBs and that is an unhealthy ego. So it is up to us to get over ourselves and accept that, yes, we are hybrids of hybrids of hybrids (and who knows how many times this has been done with less consciously evolved animals) and thus we are, like so many other beings, physical beings. Simultaneously, just as the animals who are in early stages of development of their consciousness, we are Spirit beings.

Because of the tinkering, our need to develop spiritually is clear as we are accelerating in many lines of development including the development of technology which, if in the hands of those who have not evolved properly enough spiritually, can be dangerous to other collectives of physical beings, even our own ancestral races and especially to our closest cousins, the purer bloodlines (from the perspective of a parent, off world race) of the ones we label the PTBs.

When are we going to consider the possibility that an en-souled Spirit being has its own innate protection infused from a greater, prior creative force and that the PTBs know this? If you are real, you cannot be destroyed (ACIM). When are we going to understand that our own understanding of the 100th monkey implies "they" are effected to some extent being a branch of the same parent race by our collective thoughts as well? When are we going to consider "they" may simply be playing The Wizard of Oz (from a higher point of view of course) but with a goal in mind such that at the end of the day the curtain might be pulled back instead of locked shut forever?

EDIT - added



It is the end of seperation we are really talking about. When you really, genuinely look at every other human being as another you, how can you possibly do anything deliberately harmful to them?

Yep, the only real, lasting solution to TPTB is the evolution of human consciousness. And the best place for each of us to start is with ourselves.

exactly



Until we look inside, until we admit we are the same as the pedophiles, the murders, the worst of the worst (which funny enough, is different for each of us & COMPLETELY perspective based) I do not condone what they do; but if I am to accept(and I feel that is key) that we are all god, we are splintered consciousness expressed in 7 billion different view points in an effort to fully experience all that 3d reality can offer, if that doesn't happen then we are stuck in duality..... Duality that must be kept in majority to continue this visceral lower vibrational reality.

If that doesn't change...

Then we continue to experience that which seems to be preferential to who ever is holding knowledge from the "99%" and indoctrinating at every turn, desperately trying to cling to what they have...

I think this is the reality of the "spiritual" movement; the teaching that must happen to break the majority from what "is" ( or at least is the guided perception of what is).

Breaking free of the day to day control structure will help, & I choose to focus on this; specifically the energy aspect.

exactly

[Chester]

Anyway, to sum up, I was mostly referring to the present objectively, not metaphysically. :)


Me Too...http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/cheers.gif

Fred

...and if we only consider one and not both then I am certain "they" will succeed and frankly, I can't blame anyone in this case unless I blame all of us.

EDIT added:


I think we should first identify exactly who we are all talking about here.

Exactly who are TPTB?



There is only one and that one I see when I look in the mirror. And when I stop hating that one I see in the mirror, there are no more "evil" PTBs, just partners.

Let's get a collective clue and move forward.

[Arrowwind]

A lot of it has to do with "intention"...that is; if you use a bit of money to buy food and feed your kids, well, that's good intention...

But if you buy drugs and wack out and your kids are crying because you spent your money on drugs instead of food, well, that's bad intention....

All the good intentions in the world will not likely save your kids from the trash that they sell in the supermarket that is within the classification of processed foods or coated with herbicides and pesticides.

One must not delude themselves thinking that intention is everything because if the way that you manefest your intentions is screwed up then its all screwed up and you will not get what you thought you were bargaining for, and certainly most parents are not barganing for cancer, diabetes and heart disease for their children but that is what they are already getting.

Your intentions are worth only according to the soundness of the natural laws upon which they are based, or not.

[skippy]

Morpheus to Neo in the Matrix. "You have to understand that most of these people are not ready to be unplugged and many are so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."

It's my guess, that even when this whole thing is falling apart, most will stay in denial and keep on blaming others. Then we will see mass demonstrations in the street, requesting for a change, a new leader maybe, and this whole bloody thing will start over again. Repeating cycles, business as usual.

We are basically fighting and fooling ourselves. Humans are incredible beings, but in denial of their true nature, which is way too great to apprehend and to deal with. Or as a good friend of mine used to say: "We are made by Gods, and at the same time, we are the children of Satan, capable of doing both infinite good and evil."

A lot of the work resides on an individual level, through silence, reflection, meditation and faith. “The mysterious way goes inside" as Novalis used to say. Compare faith as trusting yourself to the water. When you float, you don't grab hold of the water, because if you do you will sink and drown. Instead you relax, and let go. (Alan Watts)

What is striking in our modern world is the incapacity of the masses to think and speak for themselves. The absence of critical thinking in today’s world is in itself very thought provocative. Or as Heidegger use to say: ”The most questionable thing in our times is that we are still not thinking yet”. Every single normal human being should already be thinking by now or is it possible that we aren’t that normal?

The more the outside conditions are pushing towards introspection and investigation, the more humanity seems to hide and hold-up the lie. Why leave our comfort-zone to enter the desert and affront the scary unknown? Why enter the dark night of the soul while we can watch television and eat popcorn? As long as people refuse to give up their front-row seat in the matrix, the show will go on and the worst is still to come.

[Chester]

Consider this

I am the power that be.

can I be stopped? I hope not

should I be stopped? Perhaps

will I be stopped? Who knows?
Depends on how well I fit into the collectives within which I choose to enjoin.

I like my chances because I bet on love, and I have found love wins all bets.

try it out, then look in the mirror at the power that be

Great Thread, grip! After all - it is and only just "us" here

vD0jCYW8i4Y

and another interesting song from Peter Gabriel... (the lyrics)

"Fourteen Black Paintings"

From the pain come the dream
From the dream come the vision
From the vision come the people
From the people come the power
From this power come the change

[Chester]

In conclusion: The ONLY thing the elite controllers fear is the energy of the collective consciousness and the awakening of the masses to their true power. This is the ONLY thing we have to break the curse and to usher in the golden age of a new paradigm. This is how we beat them at their own game, the same way they put us in bondage, is the same way we break the bondage.


While I love your passion and want for change to an ideal which you perceive to be "better", I can't help but feel that in your haste you have missed a subtle point, the only requirement for a soul here is to learn for themselves in a selfish manner otherwise how can you have knowledge of the "loving" self?

To exist in hell and still be able to walk a path of "love" for the self/physical form and so understand the greed and indoctrination of other parts of the script while still keeping a veiled but valued "feel" for all life, is an important lesson.

;)

Bammo and thank you for nailing it down... man it sure feels good not to be alone in samsara.

[observer]

Click-on the forwarding icon to see the content of gripreaper's comment #1.

gripe, my friend,

The answer to your question can only be discovered by looking at the historic record, for as we all know, history is cyclic - it always repeats itself.

Throughout the history of the Human Species, whenever the Masses began to figure-out the 'system', those hyperdimensional entities controlling the Condition of Humanity, here within this particular reality, have 'recycled' the crop. To the early Gnostic community these hyperdimensional entities were known as Archons (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/alien_archons.htm.).

One can look at the early Christian movement, otherwise known as Gnostic Christians (a modern term applied to an ancient movement) where the entire community was annihilated by the Roman Empire.

Or, look at what happened to the Cathar, another Gnostic social movement influenced by the understanding of the earlier Gnostics. Yes, once again 'recycled' by what became the Holy Roman Empire. (simply an extension of the earlier Roman Empire)

So, you see grip, if it is true that history always repeats itself, than the few among the Masses who actually understand what is occurring behind all the smoke-and-mirrors will find themselves facing the same fate as the early Christians, the Cathar, and the countless other social structures who were smart enough to figure-out the matrix and how it is used to control Homo Sapiens here within this particular reality.

Research Resources:

The Gnostic Theory of Alien Intrusion:
http://www.metahistory.org/gnostique/archonfiles/AlienIntrusion.php

the Nazorean Cultus:
http://essenes.net/index.php?Itemid=841&id=591&option=com_content&task=view
(This was the true nature of the early Christian Community, otherwise known as The Gnostic Christians)

Secrets of The Cathar:
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_autor_whenry04.htm

[Chester]

Click-on the forwarding icon to see the content of gripreaper's comment #1.

gripe, my friend,

The answer to your question can only be discovered by looking at history, for as we all know, history is cyclic - it always repeats itself.

Throughout the history of the Human Species, whenever the Masses began to figure-out the 'system', those hyperdimensional entities controlling the Condition of Humanity, here within this particular reality, have 'recycled' the crop. To the early Gnostic community these hyperdimensional entities were known as Archons.

One can look at the early Christian movement, otherwise known as Gnostic Christians (a modern term applied to an ancient movement) where the entire community was annihilated by the Roman Empire.

Or, look at what happened to the Cathar, another Gnostic social movement influenced by the understanding of the earlier Gnostics. Yes, once again 'recycled' by what became the Holy Roman Empire. (simply an extension of the earlier Roman Empire)

So, you see grip, if it is true that history always repeats itself, than the few among the Masses who actually understand what is occurring behind all the smoke-and-mirrors will find themselves facing the same fate as the early Christians, the Cathar, and the countless other social structures who were smart enough to figure-out the matrix and how it is used to control Homo Sapiens here within this particular reality.

Research Resources:

The Gnostic Theory of Alien Intrusion:
http://www.metahistory.org/gnostique/archonfiles/AlienIntrusion.php

the Nazorean Cultus:
http://essenes.net/index.php?Itemid=841&id=591&option=com_content&task=view
(This was the true nature of the early Christian Community, otherwise known as The Gnostic Christians)

Secrets of The Cathar:
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_autor_whenry04.htm

Your post is incorrect, Observer. There are plenty of examples not only throughout this Universe but even within our own Galaxy where civilizations have graduated beyond self destruction and beyond being perceived as a threat to other civilizations... civilizations that might also happen to have the technology to reset the course of a sub species of the vast galactic family.

I recommend you expand your library, Observer, to include some of these historical accountings amongst all the histories your being has attracted into your sphere.

Love to You, brother - Enjoy the next act, the show is about to begin.

justoneman

[observer]

justoneman,

There are many members who believe what you are suggesting is a possibility. I would suggest this scenario is only a possibility if the majority of the Mass of Humanity believed it to be so. This is the true nature of reality, and is how this particular reality has been manipulated since the Dawn of Man.

Until such a time that the entire Mass of Humanity believe, it is only possible to rely on the facts of reality. Changing this reality is only possible by showing the Masses the evidence of how it is being controlled - how it has always been controlled.

Since you have polluted this thread with your subjective interpretations of some outrageous New Age theory of reality, I am compelled to challenge you to show me these alleged "Historical Accountings" of the:

"....plenty of examples not only throughout this Universe but even within our own Galaxy where civilizations have graduated beyond self destruction and beyond being perceived as a threat to other civilizations....

Your subjective interpretations of, what can only be characterized as telepathically influenced controlled thought, is not supported by any objective factual evidence, either from the contempory or historic records.

There is not a shred of factual evidence to support your theory that there are "plenty of examples" of any other civilization anywhere within this or any galaxy, even though many among us believe extra terrestrial (even hyperdimensional) life to exist.

Had you taken the time to follow the links that I offered, you would have had to spend many days in actual research, a task so many of the members seem unwilling to do.

Love back to You, brother - If history does repeat itself, the "next act" will be a total purging of the planet.

[Chester]

Let’s take out the scalpel…


I would suggest this scenario is only a possibility if the majority of the Mass of Humanity believed it to be so.

I found that belief alone did little to change the world. What I discovered was that the strength of intentional, focused energy is directly proportional to the real-time truth that resides within the being from which the energetic intention emanates.

One being can shift the direction of an entire realm if that being is the fullest living truth. We probably don’t have any beings of this extreme within our immediate sector of space right now, but that does not mean change in a positive, right direction for all could not come forth.

The world is only ever changed by those who think outside the box and who happen to connect (consciously) with and live closest to actual reality of who/what they are.

How do you think the powers that be got to be those powers that be?

“the evil archons”??

Maybe we simply see it all differently – and we shall see soon enough I imagine.

As for your challenge, you will always win as these “accountings” I mentioned are not so readily available... I found my Creator only gave them to me when I had gained Creation’s trust. That’s how it works when one steps outside the physical realm (always leaving one foot in too). I hope that you would be able to discover this for yourself as I have and I say that simply because I love you.

Because pointing my finger at you with regards to statements such as “telepathically influenced controlled thought” drags me into the lower energies and since this is the last 21 days of existence as we know it, then I prefer to PARTY!

Just kidding… I am having way too much fun me thinks.

Anyways, if you happen to get down to Costa Rica, I would love to meet you and I suspect you might end up considering I’m not such a bad guy after all.

By the way, I actually have several million examples of factual evidence that points to the capability each and every one of us has to become one with all they experience. I experience hundreds of mind blowingly impossible synchronicities daily now. I suspect this comes about when one decides to stop being at war with themselves and all else. I would be glad to share with you the process I employed to achieve this state. I believe anyone can do what I have done (and do every day now).

Maybe the evil PTBs will change their bloody minds about their ELE plans (if they actually have any). What might prompt them to do that? Hope. They might actually begin to hope that their cousins could actually get a clue and grow up a bit. Imagine that. The fate of humanity lies in the hands of… humanity! WoW! What a novel idea. That we are children of a creator that actually allows us to chose our fate! WoW! Oooops, wait a minute, I can’t find any objective historical evidence for such a logical Creator so I guess there mustn’t be.

[Youniverse]

Yeah I've done my share of research into history and its patterns(so what?) But I won't get into that big ego stuff, ha ha. I get what observer is saying, yet disagree because of this: it is fallacious to say that because something has turned out a certain way many times before(which I agree that it has) it will turn out that way again. This is only probability and everything that is possible is way beyond our imaginings. So I try not to "think" it will be different this time around, rather, I "feel" it will be different. If I'm wrong I'm wrong and I have no regrets. The mental processes you are implying, observer, have been ingrained in us for eons and have helped us to navigate the physical world. It's limits are made obvious when faced with something unprecedented or at least very rare. There is a whole bunch of, secret history, they don't teach you in university, and yes it is obscure, but it takes an observer that's willing to look just a little bit closer, deeper, and further than normal. By the way, here's to hoping 2012 and beyond is one of those unprecedented occurances! It sure FEELS like it to me.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

By the way, here's to hoping 2012 and beyond is one of those unprecedented occurances! It sure FEELS like it to me.

I agree that something feels different about Dec 2012 and after. Wish I had details but it is just my intuition. It is a feeling about something really big, not something personal. It could be something sudden, or a slow change and a new beginning.

[SnowyOwl]

Yes it is being done so via at least 3 ways.

First via their own mistakes.
Second via their own end of times as we are witnessing.

Third,... there is a agglomeration of people who have been thought or have understood that a simple grain of sand put at the right place stop any kind of deployment.

[Nat_Lee]

Have you guys herd about this ?
''The Venus project'' all created and imagined by Jacque Fresco.
The model that he is sugesting is a resource Based Economy !
I find it verry interesting !

Professional Positions of Jacques Fresco:

Aircraft Designer for the Northrop Division of Douglas Aircraft, Los Angeles, California
Design consultant for Rotor Craft Helicopter Company, Los Angeles, California
Design consultant for Landgraf Helicopter Co., Los Angeles, California
Co-creator of Revel Plastics Company with Lou Glaser
Designer in the Army Air Force Design and Development Unit, Wright Field, Dayton, Ohio
Design Developer of experimental equipment for behavioral scientist, Keller Breland
Director of Scientific Research Laboratories, Los Angeles, California
Architectural Designer of pre-fabricated industrial buildings for Houser Industrial Co., Los Angeles, California
Architectural Designer for Trend Homes, Inc., Los Angeles, California
Design Developer of three-dimensional projection systems for Paramount producer Jack Moss
Research Engineer for Raymond De-Icer Corp., Los Angeles, California
Technical Consultant to the Motion Picture Industry, including technical advisor and effects creator for the film Project Moonbase (1953) written by Robert A. Heinlein; for Encyclopaedia Britannica Films; and for Camera Eye Pictures, Inc., for the film, The Naked Eye (1956), which won the Robert J. Flaherty Award for creative film documentary and was nominated for an Academy Award.
Colleague and work associate of Donald Powell Wilson of Los Angeles, the noted psychologist who wrote My Six Convicts.
Industrial Design Instructor at the Art Center School in Hollywood, California
Design Consultant for Major Realty Co. and Aluminum Co. of America (Alcoa)
Creator of Jacque Fresco Enterprises, Inc. for the development of prefabricated aluminum devices
Design Developer of electronic devices for the Parkinson's Institute of Miami
Founder and Director of Sociocyberneering, Inc., Miami, Florida, the forerunner to the Venus Project
Founder and Director of the Venus Project, Venus, Florida

Have a look at the web site:

http://www.thevenusproject.com

[SnowyOwl]

Jacques Fresno is one of the greatest engineer since the 50s. He understood over 40 yrs ago where we were heading.

Venus Project still is at least 2 decades ahead of its time IMHO
Snowy

[Nat_Lee]

I think that we can do it !
If we all listen to our heart insted of our head.
Go take a look at this post from an Avalonien , it is a verry long post to read but it is worth it !
Go grab some cookies and a coffee and dig in !

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52810-The-Solution-Is-In-Full-Swing-Are-You-On-Board

:fencing:
WE WILL WIN

[blufire]

Jacques Fresno is one of the greatest engineer since the 50s. He understood over 40 yrs ago where we were heading.

Venus Project still is at least 2 decades ahead of its time IMHO
Snowy

I would like to refer back to my posts #97 and #126.

Yes the Venus Project and similar technological futures are where we will be in the next 25 to 50 years. Through the shepherding of people we least expect. They have the knowledge and it is our responsibility to turn that knowledge to wisdom.