The Real Builders of the Pyramids

[AlexanderLight]

I. Brief introduction
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QczNA_EMeDk/ULcvKW6-MgI/AAAAAAAAEMo/tp1gB_gYt0o/s1600/Pyramids.jpg
(Today's Great Pyramids of Egypt)

I have no doubt that most of my constant readers know a lot about the arrival of the Anunnaki (literally meaning "those who from heavens to Earth came") on our planet. But for the following piece of history to make sense to the newcomers, I will shortly outline the main events leading to their colonization of Earth.

According to the Anunnaki themselves, our solar system has one more member, a huge planet that is orbiting the sun in a 3,600 years long ellipse. They called their planet Nibiru, which means "the planet of the crossing" -- because together with its moons they form a cross image, and Nibiru is located in middle (in the crossing).

Because the planet has such a long orbit around the Sun, the Nibiruans relied on its very thick upper atmosphere to shelter them from cold, like a warm blanket. It also had the task of keeping the oxygen from escaping in the outer space, hence making life as we know, possible.

Unfortunately for them, they were faced with extinction when, the "volcanoes, the atmosphere's forebears, less belching were spitting up! Nibiru's air has thinner been made, the protective shield has been diminished! (...) pestilences of field made appearance; toil could them not overcome."

(...) "From circuit to circuit, Nibiru's atmosphere more breaching suffered. In the councils of the learned, cures were avidly debated; ways to bandage the wound were urgently considered."

Long story short, they've tried everything: from creating an artificial shield (which eventually fell down to the ground), to bombarding the volcanoes with nuclear-like weapons in order to make them active once again, but all their efforts ended in failure.

Nibiru's scientists had one final suggestion to heal Nibiru's atmosphere: to pulverize very fine, sub-atomic, gold dust into the breach. Because it was so fine, the nano-atomic gold dust would remain suspended and, in time, completely repair the breach. But gold was extremely scarce on Nibiru, though "within the Hammered Bracelet (inside the asteroid's belt) it was abundant."

Soon, "rains were withheld, winds blew harder; springs from the depths did not arise." The Nibiruans grew restless and stopped worshiping Alalu, for not being able to bring them salvation. Anu seized the opportunity and dethroned Alalu from Nibiru's kingship.

Fearing death, Alalu boarded a "missile-throwing celestial chariot" and set its course for Earth, where he discovered gold. He delivered the good news back to Nibiru and requested the throne back, but instead, Anu promised him Earth's leadership.

Anu and his two sons, Ea and Enlil, arrived on Earth to make plans for the future. He decided to give Earth's leadership to his son, Ea, and renamed him En-ki (Earth's Master). Alalu was greatly offended and challenged Anu to battle, but lost again.

Alalu was sentenced to die in exile, alone, on a foreign planet. I will continue this story in the final chapter, where I will make some interesting connections.

Another very important aspect is the enormous life span of the Anunnaki, who live for hundreds of thousands of years. This means that many of the Anunnaki mentioned in this article are probably still alive today.

II. The Great Flood

According to the tenth Sumerian tablet (written in Enki's own words), the Anunnaki built the pyramids of Egypt as beacons for their new main spaceport on Earth, after the old one had been wiped out by the biblical Great Flood. In the Sumerian tablets it is known as the Deluge and it was activated by Nibiru's passing, but not solely caused by it.

Here is how the events unfolded.

Long before Nibiru reached its perigee, other significant changes were already taking place: black spots appeared on the Sun's surface, Earth's magnetic field became weaker, the temperatures raised and the ice caps begun melting.

(All these events are similar to what we experience today, including the more recent sun's black spots).

The tablet does not explain what caused these important galactic changes, but presents the concern of Nibiru's scientists. They understood that Nibiru's passing will cause huge tidal waves, which will cover most of the lowlands. And this is exactly what happened.

"For days before the Day of the Deluge, the Earth was rumbling, groan as with pain it did;
For nights before the calamity struck, in the heavens Nibiru as a glowing star was seen."

(This means that Nibiru was not necessarily seen as a huge object in the night sky, otherwise it would have been mentioned as such: half the size of / as big as / bigger than the Moon, for example.

This may imply that Nibiru's passing could go unnoticed by most people. What if comet Elenin was really a smokescreen for Nibiru, as so many people and amateur astronomers suggested? According to the Sumerian tablets, Nibiru enters our solar system from the direction of the Leo constellation -- the same as comet Elenin did.

There have been many videos and articles from amateur astronomers and people with above-average knowledge who presented evidence of a possible brown dwarf approaching our solar system from the constellation Leo, at the same time as NASA and the MSM were chatting non-stop about merely a comet -- NASA's most studied comet in history, I might add.

Unfortunately, because their possible pole-shifting scenarios did not occur, they chose to remove important information from the internet, fearing ridicule. But they might have been right all along, because Nibiru usually passes without causing harm. The Sumerian tablets describe a period of about 500,000 years, or about 138 completed orbits, and this is the only reference to a disaster caused by Nibiru).

Just before the deluge started, most of the Anunnaki returned to Nibiru, but some of them decided to stay. Those who remained, watched the destruction from their "celestial boats", while circling the Earth.

"Then there was darkness in daytime, and at night the Moon as though by a monster was swallowed. The Earth began to shake, by a netforce (i.e. gravitation or electromagnetic force) before unknown it was agitated.

In the glow of dawn, a black cloud arose from the horizon. The morning's light to darkness changed. Then the sound of a rolling thunder boomed, lightnings the skies lit up. (...) On that day, on the unforgettable day, the Deluge with a roar begun."

Next, the South's Pole huge ice sheets smashed into each other, broke, and fell into the ocean, creating a gigantic tsunami. The waves traveled North, towards the lands of the Abzu, which was an Anunnaki gold-mining domain in South-East Africa.

(Actually, the oldest discovered Metropolis on Earth is located in the South-East African Continent, and it is dated 160,000 to 200,000 BCE. The metropolis measures and astounding 1,500 square miles, it is thought to be part of a 10,000 square miles community and it was built around thousands of gold mines. Click to read the complete article (http://humansarefree.com/2011/01/oldest-metropolis-on-earth-was-built-by.html)).

The tidal wave continued North, until it reached and submerged the city of Edin (meaning "the home from far-away", it was the first Anunnaki settlement on Earth, hence its name; the biblical Eden, located underneath today's Persian Golf) and all the inhabited lands of the Anunnaki, together with their gold mines, spaceports and cities. Some of the very few humans to escape the flood were Ziusudra (biblical Noah) and his family, who had been secretly instructed by Enki to build a boat, sealed with bitumen (in order to make it waterproof, even if submerged by the waves).
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZSbVl4vk1EM/ULef85rpqBI/AAAAAAAAEUw/slJtmV6TNXA/s1600/Mount+Ararat+Twin+Peaks.jpg
(Mount Ararat's twin peaks, in today's Turkey)

A great storm with heavy rains started. The tidal wave kept sweeping the Earth for seven days, until it finally came to a halt. But the heavy rains continued for forty more days and nights. When the rains finally stopped, Ziusudra and Ninagal directed the boat toward Mount Arrata's twin peaks that were still visible. They were able to find dry land while heading for the peaks.

(Must-Read Article: The remnants of the so called "Noah's Ark", were indeed discovered near the peaks of Ararat Mountains, in Turkey (http://humansarefree.com/2011/01/noahs-ark-found-in-turkey-bible.html)).
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4YrFZtgnifI/ULdcjVurHrI/AAAAAAAAEOQ/T8GPtgC9q54/s1600/Ziusudra's+Boat.gif
(How Ziusudra's boat probably looked like, according to the on-site discoveries)

This event took place in the 120th Shar (1 Shar = 3,600 earth years = one complete orbit of Nibiru around our Sun, which is equivalent to 432,000 earth years) since the Anunnaki arrived on Earth.

But there were other humans who survived the Great Flood, not only Ziusudra and his family. Another group of survivors had been found by the Anunnaki in the Americas, and they were the direct descendants of Ka-in (the biblical Cain), who was judged and banished from the Edin (the biblical Eden), after killing his brother Abael (the biblical Abel) in a dispute.

III. The construction of a new Mission Control Center (MCC)

After the Deluge, the reconstruction begun with a new spaceport. The text describes how the Anunnaki made their buildings according to the position of the stars:

"Let the heart of the plain, the heavens reflect! so did Enlil to Enki suggests. Once Enki to this agreed, Enlil from the skies of distances took measures."

Indeed, the pyramids and monuments of Egypt are aligned to the stars!

The Hidden Records Website (http://www.thehiddenrecords.com/egypt.htm): "Wayne Herschel contends that all 50 pyramids in Lower Egypt replicate the prime stars on one side of the Milky Way. He also confirms Robert Bauval’s theory that the three main pyramids of Giza conclusively represent Orion, however he identifies a new scale interpretation very different to that of Bauval’s. If one were to look for clues as to why the ancient Egyptians only represented one side of the Milky Way in their pyramid star map, what becomes evident is that all the stars, except for one, are not Sun-like.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-i1iuAm0a3zU/ULiQPyJobHI/AAAAAAAAEeo/5jNGoGJ-p6k/s1600/Wayne+Herschel+Star+Patern.gif
"Focus on the star pattern of the Pleiades and its important Sun-like star nearby.
This is an obsession shared by virtually all ancient civilizations." Credit: The Hidden Records

Also, it hardly seems coincidence that all except for one monument do not display the distinctive pyramid shape. It is the obelisk shaped Sun Temple of Ra near Abusir that exhibits this very unique scenario. It turns out that the pyramids at Abusir represent the Pleiades and that this nearby ‘sun’ monument may explain the reason for the entire star map."

Next, Enlil chose the spot for a new Mission Control Center:

"A suitable mount he selected, the Mount of Way Showing (i.e. most probably the famous Temple Mount of Jerusalem) he named it.

A platform of stones, akin but smaller than the Landing Place (i.e. the so called "Temple of Jupiter" from Baalbek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baalbek), Lebanon; where Enlil's abode was also located) to be built there he ordered."
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0a7e1bl3pNA/ULifn-F8VcI/AAAAAAAAEgg/DfR77dK6ntA/s1600/Baalbek+Layout.jpg
(Temple of Jupiter in Baalbek, Lebanon -- Either Enlil's abode, or Roman construction on-top of the Landing Platform. The ancient site of Baalbek encompassed a paved stone platform of about five million square feet.

Important to notice: Baalbeck means The City of the Master or Lord, both titles being used by the humans to address the Anunnaki 'gods'.)

Before proceeding, I must share some mind-blowing facts regarding the Baalbek site. According to "fully qualified and practising American civil engineers", the Baalbek terrace is an amazing achievement, because of the size and weight of the stones involved in its construction.

"The platform and large courtyard is still retained by three walls containing twenty-seven limestone blocks which have no equal in size anywhere in the world, as each of them weighs in excess of 300 metric tons."
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mCVe87cFPz4/ULiju6GL-EI/AAAAAAAAEiI/Lf4R9SAQMdE/s1600/Baalbke+Terrace.jpg
("One of the three 64 foot long megaliths in the Baalbek terrace.
Notice the man in the lower lefthand corner.")

"Three of the blocks, however, weigh around 1000 tons each. This block trio is world-renowned as the "Trilithon". Consider also the even larger monolith lying in a quarry over a half-mile away from the main Acropolis. It measures roughly 70 X 16 X 13 feet and weighs an estimated 1200 tons." -- Source (http://www.atlantisquest.com/Baalbek.html).
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ojR9vUQP-bM/ULikIf4F8QI/AAAAAAAAEiQ/ICa4kDIMV6Y/s1600/Baalbek+1200+tons+stone.jpg
(One of the biggest cut stones on Earth, weighing approx. 1,200 tons)

"In its midst a great rock was carved inside and out, to house a new Bond Heaven-Earth it was made.

A new Navel of the Earth (a.k.a. MCC), the role of Nibru-ki (i.e. the original MCC and Enlil's city in Shumer; called Nippur in Akkadian) before the Deluge to replace."

A new landing corridor for the ships coming from the outer space was also needed:

"The Landing Path on the twin peaks of Arrata in the north were anchored. To demarcate the Landing Corridor, Enlil two other sets of twin peaks required, to delimit the Landing Corridor's boundary, ascent and descent to secure. (...)

Where the second set of twin peaks was required, mountains there were none,
Only a flatland above he water-clogged valley from the ground protruded.
Artificial peaks thereon we can raise! So did Ningishzidda to the leaders say."

Ningishzidda = Son of Enki, he was a master of genetics and other sciences. Later, in ancient Egypt, he was known as Thoth. This is the reason why I warned you to be cautious about the so called "Emerald Tablets of Thoth the Atlantean" -- it's just another Anunnaki deception!

IV. The construction of the artificial mounds = the Great Pyramids of Egypt

"On a tablet the image of smooth-sided, skyward rising peaks for them he drew.
If it can be done, let it so be! Enlil with approval said. Let them also as beacons serve!"

The following passage is very important, though it may be overlooked if careless:

"On the flatland, above the river's valley, Ningishzidda a scale model built,
The rising angles and four smooth sides with it he perfected.
Next to it a larger peak he placed, its sides to Earth's four corners he set;
By the Anunnaki, with their tools of power, were its stones cut and erected.
Beside it, in a precise location, the peak that was its twin he placed."

If you have read the suggested article in the introduction, then you understand how important is the description of how Ningishzidda aligned the great pyramid to Earth's four corners. Here is an excerpt from that article:

"The geographical orientation of the great pyramid, is probably the most amazing characteristic. Its sides are almost perfectly placed from N-S and E-W. It is almost perfectly oriented on Earth's True North!

The True North is calculated on a map, by using the longitudinal lines and it's not the same as the Magnetic North, indicated by the compass."

The above passage of the tablets also explains how the Anunnaki used their "tools of power" to cut and put in place the massive stone blocks.

Erecting pyramids was probably a small effort to them, and as a result, we have already discovered thousands all over the planet.

The Great Pyramid was built to have "galleries and chambers for pulsating crystals". As I mentioned before, we have a lot to learn about crystals, and I am sure that we will use them for multiple different purposes, in the near future.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-O5KoGty9_Yk/ULecNbjTWMI/AAAAAAAAETI/OGWZqZfo0w4/s1600/White+Pyramid+with+Electrum+Cap.jpg
(Ekur, covered with white limestone and its electrum capstone in place)

"When this artful peak to the heavens rose, to place upon it the capstone, the leaders were invited. Of electrum, an admixture by Gibil (another son of Enki, in charge with metallurgy and maker of "magical" artifacts) fashioned, was the Apex Stone made.

The sunlight to the horizon it reflected, by night like a pillar of fire it was, the power of all the crystals to the heavens, in a beam, it focused."

According to different accounts, the pyramids had been covered in white limestone, and we can only imagine how beautiful they were, gleaming in the desert's sunlight. Marcus Antonius described the Great Pyramid more than 2,000 years ago as "shining like a precious jewel", while being visible from 100 miles.

The description of the Apex Stone's role in the night, can be accepted both literally, and figuratively, and personally I think both description are accurate. Literally, the capstone was somehow able to emanate the light of the "pulsating crystals" from inside the pyramid toward the heavens, and figuratively, it was also used as a GPS-like landmark by the Anunnaki space ships.

Further, the Sumerian tablets describe the interior of the Great Pyramids:

"When the artful works, by Ningishzidda designed, were completed and ready, the Anunnaki leaders the Great Twin Peak entered, at what they saw they marveled;
Ekur, House Which Like a Mountain Is, they named it, a beacon to the heavens it was." (...)

"Then Enlil by his own hand the Nibiru crystals activated.
Inside, eerie lights began to flicker, an enchanting hum the stillness broke;
Outside, the capstone all at once was shining, brighter that the Sun it was."

(On a separate account): "Its interior with a reddish light of heaven glows."

Now we have the confirmation that the capstone was not reflecting the sun's light, but it was in fact emitting an even brighter light, once the device was activated. Hence, my previous assumption (that the pyramid was used both as a visual landmark and Global Positioning System) is proven correct.

Images Limit Reached -- See images on HumansAreFree.com (http://humansarefree.com/2012/12/the-anunnaki-built-pyramids.html)

(NE: Mount Ararat's tallest peaks, equipped with guiding beacons;
SE: The approximate location of the Edin, the biblical Eden;
W: Enlil's abode and location of the 1st spaceport, after the Deluge;
West (lower): The location of the Mission Control Center;
SW: The Great Pyramids of Egypt, equipped with guiding beacons;)

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(Possible flight path, as seen from above the Ararat's Peaks, towards the Great Pyramids of Egypt)

V. The construction of the Egyptian Sphinx

While the Anunnaki were still celebrating the construction of the "artificial mounds", Enki offered a suggestion to his brother, Enlil:

"When in the future days it will be asked: when and by whom was this marvel fashioned?
Let us beside the twin peaks a monument create, the Age of the Lion let it announce,
The image of Ningishzidda (later known as Thoth), the peaks' designer, let its face be,
Let it precisely toward the Place of the Celestial Chariots gaze,
When, by whom, and the purpose let it to future generations reveal!"

Enlil agreed with Enki's suggestion and decreed:

"Let the gazing lion, precisely eastward facing, with Ningishzidda's image be!"

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Ekur and the Lion with Ningishzidda's face (artistic reproduction)

Marduk, Enki's firstborn child and his legal heir, was enraged of his father's and uncle's decision. He demanded for his image to be carved on the lion's face, because the pyramids were situated on his domains.

This stirred the other Anunnaki to ask for more domains and human slaves, and the ceremony was about to degenerate.

Ninmah, a half-sister of Enki and Enlil, intervened and proposed a fair spread of lands and human slaves, among the ruling Anunnaki. This calmed everyone down for the moment, but eventually led to many infamous wars, this time known to our history.

Marduk received the lands that are known to us as, today, as ancient Egypt, where he was later worshiped as Ra.

VI. Summary of the events that followed

The next chapters are long and not strongly related to the main subject of this article, so I will make a short summary of what happened next:

- Marduk (Ra) replaced Ningishzidda's (Thoth's) face from the Lion monument.

- Marduk lost the first war of the pyramids (a.k.a. the Great war of the Anunnaki) and went into exile. Enki and Enlil divide the Earth among their other sons.

- Ninurta (Enlil's foremost son, mothered by Enlil's half sister, Ninmah. He was Enlil's legal successor) was celebrated as victor after defeating Marduk.

- Ninurta, later established alternative space facilities in the Americas.

- Anu (Nibiru's king for the past ~500,000 years) decided to come to Earth one more time, but accompanied by his spouse, Antu. The Anunnaki debated many plans for the future, including how to keep mankind obedient.

- To celebrate Anu's second coming to Earth, a new year count was established by the Anunnaki.

- Pardoned by his grandfather Anu, Marduk remained rebellious and later usurped a site, planning to build an illicit launch tower. Frustrated by the Enlilites, he also seized the Second Region.

- Ningishzida, who was known in Egypt as Thoth, was deposed by his brother, Marduk. He took with him followers and flew to the Americas.

- Marduk declared himself Ra, the sun god, and replaced the Moon/Lunar calendar used by the other Anunnaki, with a new one, based on the sun's movement. He also started a new religion, in which he was worshiped as a god, and the sole ruler of Earth - which greatly worried and upset the other Anunnaki. He is the one who introduced the Pharaonic reign, with the intention to mark the beginning of a new civilization.

- For the first time, demigods (Anunnaki - human hybrids) ruled as kings on Earth. They also served as priests in palaces and temples.

- Enki was known as Ptha in Egypt, which meant "The Developer", and commemorated his greatness in reestablishing the civilization after the Deluge.

- The Anunnaki were known as "Neteru" in Egypt, literally meaning "The Guardian Watchers".

- Marduk proclaimed the coming Age of the Ram as his sign and demanded Earth's leadership. Ningishzidda started building stone observatories to prove otherwise (this is clearly one reason for some of the dozens monolithic stone observatories erected all over the planet, in all major cultures).

- Marduk built Bab-Ili (Babylon) in Mesopotamia, literally meaning "The Gateway of the Gods". Armies raised by his son, Nabu, attempted to seize the Anunnaki spaceport. Overruling Enki, the Anunnaki decided to use the Weapons of Terror (similar of today's nuclear weapons).

- Ninurta and Nergal obliterated the spaceport and the "sinning" cities with nuclear weapons. The drifting nuclear cloud brought death to all in Sumer.

- Bab-Ili is among the few places to survive the calamity, and Enki's sees it as an omen of Marduk's inevitable supremacy. Finally, Enlil accepts Marduk's supremacy and retreats to the faraway lands.

Apparently, this chapter was not strongly connected to the main subject, but my intention was to show you that important Anunnaki figures went to the Americas, where they built new space facilities (most probably including pyramids as well). This is strong evidence that the Mesoamerican civilizations (Toltec, Maya, Aztec, Incas) had also been established by the Anunnaki.

They have the same stories as the Sumerians: the creation story, accounts of flying gods which arrived on Earth from the stars, the story of how the gods revealed great knowledge to the humans they also practiced human and animal sacrifice, they worshiped gods, demigods who were kings and priests, they had astounding knowledge of the stars and the passing of time, and they built dozens of pyramids and megalithic structures across the Americas.

But one of the most amazing connections, at least for me, is Ningishzidda's name in the Americas, according to the Sumerians. He was known as...get ready for it...the Winged Serpent! Does this ring a bell to you?

All major Mesoamerican civilizations worshiped the same god. The Incas called him Viracocha, the Aztecs Quetzacoatl, the K'iche' Maya Q'uq'umatz, and the Toltec and Mayas Kukulcan. His name means the same thing, in all cultures: the Feathered Serpent -- which means that he possessed the ability to fly! -- Read More

My final connection refers to the story of how the gods of Mesoamerica returned to the stars in their flying vehicles, just like it happened in all major cultures. And since I've mentioned the flying vehicles of the gods...

VII. The flying vehicles of the Anunnaki

Here is how Endubsar, Enki's scribe, described one of the flying crafts of the Anunnaki:

"I looked up and lo and behold, a Whirlwind came our of the south. There was a reddish brilliance about it and it made no sound. And as it reached the ground, four straight feet spread out from its belly and the brilliance disappeared. And I threw myself on the ground and prostrated myself, for I knew that it was a divine vision."

Images Limit Reached

(...) "The Whirlwind lifted itself as a fiery chariot and was gone. (...) It carried me swiftly between the Earth and the heavens, as the eagle soars. And I could see the land and the waters, and the plains and the mountains."

Images Limit Reached

(Egyptian papyrus depiction of Ra's (Marduk's) arrival on Earth in a flying disc
Definitely a famous Anunnaki "Whirlwind")

The Anunnaki used the so called "Whirlwinds" for flights inside Earth's atmosphere. The so called "Celestial Boats" were bigger flying crafts, that could host numerous whirlwinds. The celestial boats were also used for space travels (similar to the concept of a Mother Ship).

The celestial boats had been used by the Anunnaki to travel from and to Nibiru, but had also been used by the remaining Anunnaki in the time of the Deluge. For the entire period, they were able to stay aloft in their Celestial Boats, which did not require any kind of fuel.

Finally, the third flying craft model of the Anunnaki, were similar to the concept of a rocket, and were used to send the refined gold from Earth to the Anunnaki bases on Mars.

VIII. The Martian bases of the Anunnaki

During NASA's Viking Missions of 1976, the orbiters Viking 1 and 2 took aerial photographs of Mars' surface. In an area that is now referred to as the 'Cydonia Complex of Mars', the orbiters took some very controversial pictures, consisting of a large and detailed humanoid face, the size of a small mountain, and several pyramidal structures in its vicinity.

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(Original 1976 'Face on Mars' image, from the Viking Orbiter. Credit: NASA)

NASA, of course, rushed to deny the possibility of anything else than a natural rock formation, stating that the resemblance to a humanoid face is nothing more than an optical illusion.

The second released picture, of a vaster area, was even more controversial, because there was also a pyramidal complex visible and what appeared to be the ruins of an ancient city.

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(The Face and the 'City of pyramids' from VIKING 1 -- July 25, 1976. Credit: NASA)

Even in black and white color, to the untrained eye, the resemblances to pyramids seen from above and humanoid face are striking.

According to author Wayne Herschel (http://thehiddenrecords.com/mars), the Martian pyramids are a replica of the Pleiades:

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(Mars - Pleiades Connections. Credit: Wayne Herschel)

The Anunnaki built permanent bases on Mars

As I have promised in the introduction, I will now continue the story and make the necessary connections.

After sentencing Alalu to die alone in exile, Anu continued:

"Neither on Earth nor on Nibiru shall the exiling be! On the way, there is the Lahmu (Mars) planet, with waters and an atmosphere endowed. Its netforce (gravitational pull) is less than that of Earth forceful, an advantage in wisdom to be considered. (...)

On my departing from Earth he with me shall make the journey. Around the planet of Lahmu we shall make circuits, to Alalu a sky chamber we shall provide, to the planet Lahmu in it he will be descended. Alone on a strange planet an exile he shall be, his days to his last day by himself to count!"

Anzu was the designated spacecraft pilot for Anu on his way back to Nibiru. He decided to "make his name" and stay with Alalu on Mars until his death.
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As I mentioned before, for space travel the Anunnaki used the so called "celestial chariots", which were large mothership-like spacecrafts. There are many references in their accounts of how the space chariots were influenced by the gravitational pull (or, how recent alternative studies suggest, electromagnetic force) of the planets. Which meant, that these crafts were not "anti-gravitational" vehicles, which are entirely unaffected by gravity.

(As alleged insiders from our real space programs suggest, we currently have very advanced space crafts as well, which are able to create and "ride", so called, "anti-gravitational waves". This concept is similar to a surfer riding a wave. And it is only logical that this type of craft has limitations when it comes to entering inside a planet's atmosphere, because it is not shielded by an "anti-gravitational bubble".

For example, even the most advanced of NASA's Space Shuttle Orbiters, the S.S. Discovery, faces serious challenges when reentering Earth's atmosphere. It needs to enter at a certain angle and at a certain speed, otherwise it would break into pieces. For example, in 2003, the Columbia orbiter broke up during re-entry, over Texas -- all 7 astronauts died).
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Anu's daughter, Ninmah, who was a medical officer, was sent to Earth. On the way, she landed on Mars where Anzu told her of Alalu's death. He found a cave inside a big, mountain-like rock and buried the former king of Nibiru there. Alalu ruled for 9 Shars = 32,400 Earth years.

"For the first time in our annals, a king not on Nibiru died, not on Nibiru was he buried. So did Ninmah say. Let him in peace for eternity rest!"

And now, here is the most interesting part!

"The image of Alalu upon the great rock mountain, with beams they carved. They showed him wearing an Eagle's helmet (astronaut-like helmet); his face they made uncovered.

Let the image of Alalu forever gaze toward Nibiru that he ruled, toward the Earth whose gold he discovered! So Ninmah, in the name of her father Anu did declare."

Weekly World News published this artistic reproduction of the so called Martian Face:

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(Reproduction of Alalu's tomb and face)

"Anzu, to you Anu the king his promise shall be keeping! Twenty heroes with you here shall remain, the way station's building to begin. Rocketships from Earth the golden ores shall here deliver, celestial chariots from here the gold to Nibiru shall then transport.

Hundreds of heroes their abode on Lahmu shall make, you, Anzu, shall be their commander! Thus did Ninmah, in the name of her father Anu, to Anzu say."

This is how the construction of permanent bases on Mars started. Six hundred Anunnaki came to Earth in the beginning and tree hundred went on Mars. The second ones were called the Igigi. For the next 500,000 years, the Anunnaki sent refined gold from Earth to Nibiru, via the Martian base.

According to the Sumerian tablets, the Igigi left Mars in the time of the Deluge, and never returned, because Nibiru's gravitational pull made Mars' atmosphere and waters to escape into space - hence making the planet unsuitable for life.

History is written by the victors!

In closing, I can only hope that I was able to make some interesting connections and live up to my promise. This article brought us closer to the truth, but I want to remind you that history is always written by the victors -- in this case, the Anunnaki. I'm sure you understand what this statement implies.

If you wonder why I refrained from making any connections between the Anunnaki and the reptilians, it is because I want to dedicate an entire article to this fascinating subject, where I will also present one of my alternative theories regarding their involvement in our evolution.

Love and Blessings,
Alexander

SOURCE: HumansAreFree.com (http://humansarefree.com/2012/12/the-anunnaki-built-pyramids.html)

[RMorgan]

Hey mate,


According to the tenth Sumerian tablet (written in Enki's own words), the Anunnaki built the pyramids of Egypt as beacons for their new main spaceport on Earth, after the old one had been wiped out by the biblical Great Flood. In the Sumerian tablets it is known as the Deluge and it was activated by Nibiru's passing, but not solely caused by it.

I challenge anyone here to seriously try to find such statements on any Sumerian text. There are very accurate translations available on the web. I recommend this one (http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/).


Just before the deluge started, most of the Anunnaki returned to Nibiru, but some of them decided to stay.

There´s no reference whatsoever in the Sumerian tablets that points Nibiru (actually the proper translation would be Neberu) as the home planet of the Annunaki, the 12º planet of our solar system or an outsider planet with a 3600 years cycle. Most citations of Nibiru points it as a "place of crossing" and some point it as planet Mercury.

Again, such article seems to be mostly based on Zacharia Sitchin´s work, which is mostly fictional. Every ancient language scholar specialized in the Sumerian tablets out there agree that Sitchin´s transliterations are completely wrong and inaccurate; they´re fabricated information.

This is just another case of people mistaking Sitchin´s books for real historical books, while in fact they are fictional free interpretations of the Sumerian cuneiform tablets.

Cheers,

Raf.

Ps: Just checked the article sources and indeed they come from "The Lost Book of Enki", by Zacharia Sitchin.:doh:

[Shade]

Vote No.2 for Sitchin's work as being fiction. There is a strong divide in the alternative fields between those who think Sitchin's work is reliable and speaking of what actually took place and those who do not. The ones who see it as fiction produce superior research. The ones who see Sitchin as fact, have research which sees specific things where those things are not: i.e. delusional. That is what I have observed. And yes is my opinion. But it is what I have concluded presently.

[RMorgan]

Vote No.2 for Sitchin's work as being fiction. There is a strong divide in the alternative fields between those who think Sitchin's work is reliable and speaking of what actually took place and those who do not. The ones who see it as fiction produce superior research. The ones who see Sitchin as fact, have research which sees specific things where those things are not: i.e. delusional. That is what I have observed. And yes is my opinion. But it is what I have concluded presently.

Hey mate,

Well, those who are really interested in researching the truth about ancient civilizations wont go anywhere if they build the foundation of their researches based on Sitchin´s books. This isn´t even a matter of opinion; This is a fact.

The Sumerian texts have been researched for a long time, by many independent serious ancient languages specialists from all over the world. The transliterations we have right now are the results of exhaustive research and none of them corroborates Sitchin´s imaginative "translations" of the Sumerian cuneiform texts.

This misconception about the Sumerian texts have been perpetuated by the alternative community for such a long time that most people take it for truth even without further examination; People just accept it and use it as the foundation for their belief systems; a classic case of repeating a lie so many times until it eventually becomes truth.

You know, I´ve read many of Sitchin´s books and I believe he´s a very nice fiction writer. However, it´s fiction, period.

Cheers,

Raf.

[Shade]

Hey mate,

Well, those who are really interested in researching the truth about ancient civilizations wont go anywhere if they build the foundation of their researches based on Sitchin´s books. This isn´t even a matter of opinion; This is a fact.

The Sumerian texts have been researched for a long time, by many independent serious ancient languages specialists from all over the world. The transliterations we have right now are the results of exhaustive research and none of them corroborates Sitchin´s imaginative "translations" of the Sumerian cuneiform texts.

This misconception about the Sumerian texts have been perpetuated by the alternative community for such a long time that most people take it for truth even without further examination; People just accept it and use it as the foundation for their belief systems; a classic case of repeating a lie so many times until it eventually becomes truth.

You know, I´ve read many of Sitchin´s books and I believe he´s a very nice fiction writer. However, it´s fiction, period.

Cheers,

Raf.

A recent example is a bit of an exchange between Micheal Tellinger and Andrew Collins over the Adam's Calendar: http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/articles/txsa_4_adams.htm

Micheal Tellinger is of the Sitchin school and Collins isn't. I have also noticed that Tellinger's work is full of 'seeing things where there isn't' like the giant footprint in the granite in South Africa, which is obviously just erosion. I have also noticed that Collin's research on the pyramids being aligned to Cygnus NOT Orion and other part of his work is corresponding to the research of other alternative researchers whose work is of a very high standard. It's kind of like a consistency that is held in a group with links and supports between researchers who come up with really good things, consistently. Research which stands up to scrutiny. And then you have the people who support Sitchin.. consistently I can see that they believe things which are plainly and sometimes ridiculously false.. delusional.. and that it is shared as a common thread between them.

Lloyd Pye's work as well, for example... he is a firm supporter of Sitichin and I watch his work as a comedy of errors. He is SO ignorant that it is astounding.. and like Sitchin.. people just take Pye's work to be 'the way it is' these days when it is in straight terms full of absolute bullsh*t. And don't get the basic theory mixed up with what I'm saying here.. I'm not saying that those kinds of theories are wrong (alien intervention etc.).. what I'm saying is that the story Pye presents.. the tales he tells... are not real as in it is completely full of ignorance and non understanding of what the fossil record contains and what mainstream science hold in its coffers and teaches, for example. His stuff is as much a fiction as Sitchin's work. Important in finding truthful stories about our past is getting the basic facts right. All the ignorance that these guys perp is really so much a disservice to humanity.

[Tarka the Duck]

Hello Raf

The Sumerian texts have been researched for a long time, by many independent serious ancient languages specialists from all over the world

One of these academics is a good friend of ours: he translates and teaches at Kathmandu University, and he and his colleagues are of the same opinion as you about Sitchin.

Kathie

[RMorgan]

Important in finding truthful stories about our past is getting the basic facts right.

This sentence basically sums up the most common theoretic flaws out there, specially in the alternative community.

Building a theory or a knowledge base is just like solving a complex equation; If you mistake a - for a + you get a completely wrong and misleading result.

Whenever someone makes this flawed result into a belief, it will form a cascade effect that will negatively affect the way he may interpret all information he might acquire in the future.

[Shade]

Just as an interesting side note, I understand that the Sumerian Gods were their plants... as in they were archetypal universal forms accessed through plants, foods... entheogens especially. This magic has been brought through by the Cabal today in using these 'Gods' to control humanity through gods like Nica (the term I use myself I don't know what they call him) which is nicotine, and caffeine for example, which is to do with controlling time and the rhythms of the mind and the body. LOL I know Nica personally as I had a battle to quit smoking some time ago. They use this kind of magic through the chemical realm, and it is probably intimately connected with Codex Alimentarius.

The dimensions the polarised and polarising magic works through is only from the 8th down, which is the second of the 'mind' realms. From the 9th and above, it's just the harmonious actions of the universal archetypes and forces. Bridging the 2D through the 9D into harmonious energy flow and unification [whole multifaceted being not polarised], so that judgement and non allowance dissolves and does NOT stop the flow of consciousness, life and energy, will heal the diseases brought about by it.

[SilentFeathers]

We all know that in ancient times many strange things happened that until this day haven't been explained in a complete way based on facts and truth, nor do we even come close to fully understanding the truth of many many things, such as; "Who built the pyramids and what were they built for"????

IMO, Sitchins has drastically corrupted the journey in our search for the truth for anyone that believes his books are fact and truth. They are NOT based on facts and it's being proven more and more all the time that Sitchin's basically just had a wild imagination........

[RMorgan]

We all know that in ancient times many strange things happened that until this day haven't been explained in a complete way based on facts and truth, nor do we even come close to fully understanding the truth of many many things, such as; "Who built the pyramids and what were they built for"????

IMO, Sitchins has drastically corrupted the journey in our search for the truth for anyone that believes his books are fact and truth. They are NOT based on facts and it's being proven more and more all the time that Sitchin's basically just had a wild imagination........


I agree, my friend.

That´s why I think the Sumerians made one of the coolest things ever; A gift for the future generations.

They have left dictionaries of their language themselves, so there´s no margin to discuss about the accuracy of the transliterations we have right now, because they are not fruits of guessing, deduction or translation philosophies that might be subjected to flaws; They are the result of cross referencing the cuneiform symbols in the context of each text with their dictionary definitions.

Anyone can accurately contextually learn any language with just a dictionary and a book.

The Sumerian tablets are literally heaven for ancient language experts.

Raf.

[The Royal Wizard]

IMO no one can say for sure what is fact and what is not. How you understand an ancient language depends on how you look at the world, how open your mind is and how willing you are to take into concideration that your own paradigm may be wrong. In that regard Sitchin may be right, and so called experts may be wrong. But we do know one thing for sure, no one living to day was present when the tablets were made, so talking about facts is really arrogant IMO.

You can compare this to the story about the woman who claimed she was raped by a reptilian. The hypnotist must have been pretty broadminded to believe such a thing. Most people would only have dismissed the whole thing as a raving lunatic of a womans imagination.

All the best

TRW

[sirdipswitch]

The term, Anunnaki itself, is a Sitchin fabrication.

I knew a Freemasson of High Rank, (he's dead now. He was a distant relative, that I saw every Christmas, for an hour, when he would "Bless" the family with an hour of his time.) and asked him his opinion of Sitchins work. He just smiled and said: "Served its purpose well." And for those that are still not aware, Sitchin, was a Masson of High Rank.

[RMorgan]

IMO no one can say for sure what is fact and what is not. How you understand an ancient language depends on how you look at the world, how open your mind is and how willing you are to take into concideration that your own paradigm may be wrong. In that regard Sitchin may be right, and so called experts may be wrong. But we do know one thing for sure, no one living to day was present when the tablets were made, so talking about facts is really arrogant IMO.

You can compare this to the story about the woman who claimed she was raped by a reptilian. The hypnotist must have been pretty broadminded to believe such a thing. Most people would only have dismissed the whole thing as a raving lunatic of a womans imagination.

All the best

TRW


You have completely misinterpreted my statements.

Who am I to say what happened back then, when the Sumerians were thriving as a civilization.

All I´m saying is that Sitchin says a lot of things that can´t be found anywhere in the known Sumerian cuneiform texts. That´s an undeniable fact.

He claimed that his information came from the Sumerian tablets, while in fact, he fabricated the biggest part of his material out of pure imagination.

Feel free to search the available Sumerian database for yourself and see if you can find anything to back up his major claims.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Ah, now it all makes sense. Even the life work of a researcher has to be poo-pooed here, of course.
But we can believe in the Illuminati, black op advanced weaponry, time and space dimensional entities, Archons, God, jump rooms, alternate energy and physics theories, artifacts on the moon, mars and elsewhere - but oh, no, there had better be no talk of Anunaki because the learned amongst us has decided that topic is unreliable and perhaps even a lie.

[RMorgan]

Ah, now it all makes sense. Even the life work of a researcher has to be poo-pooed here, of course.
But we can believe in the Illuminati, black op advanced weaponry, time and space dimensional entities, Archons, God, jump rooms, alternate energy and physics theories, artifacts on the moon, mars and elsewhere - but oh, no, there had better be no talk of Anunaki because the learned amongst us has decided that topic is unreliable and perhaps even a lie.

Well, you´re free to believe anything you want, my friend.

However, personally, I´d rather believe something that can be backed up with evidence, specially in this case, when all the information is largely available and verifiable.

During his life, Sitchin was questioned many times by ancient language scholars and always refused to answer questions like these, proposed by Dr.Michael Heiser (http://sitchiniswrong.com/index.html):


Can you please provide transcripts of Zecharia Sitchin's academic ancient language work? I would like to post this information on my website, and would gladly do so.

Can you explain why Zecharia Sitchin (or you in turn) have not included the comparative linguistic material from the Amarna texts that shows the Akkadian language also uses the plural word for "gods" to refer to a single deity or person (which of course undermines the argument that elohim must refer to a plurality of gods)?

Can you produce a single text that says the Anunnaki come from the planet Nibiru - or that Nibiru is a planet beyond Pluto? I assert that there are no such texts, and challenge you and your readers to study the occurrences of "Anunnaki" right here on this website. Here is a video where I show readers how to conduct a search online at the Electronic Corpus of Sumerian Literature website. There are 182 occurrences of the divine name Anunnaki. Please show me any evidence from the Sumerian texts themselves that the Anunnaki have any connection to Nibiru or a 12th planet (or any planet).

Can you explain why the alleged sun symbol on cylinder seal VA 243 is not the normal sun symbol or the symbol for the sun god Shamash?

Can you explain why your god = planet equivalencies do not match the listings of such matching in cuneiform astronomical texts? I recently blogged on this issue and provided a recent scholarly article on the planets in Mesopotamian literature by experts in cuneiform as proof that Sitchin erred in this regard.

Can you explain why many of Sitchin's word meanings / translations of Sumerian and Mesopotamian words are not consistent with Mesopotamian cuneiform bilingual dictionaries, produced by Akkadian scribes?

Can you provide any reference in the Sumerian texts confirming nibiru as a planet beyond Pluto, connects nibiru with the Anunnaki, has nibiru cycling through our solar system every 3600 years?

Sitchin simply didn´t bother to answer such questions; It should be simple to answer them if he was indeed correct. After Sitchin passed away Dr.Heiser proposed these questions to Sitchin´s fans and no one was able to answer them as well because most part of his work comes from his imagination and can´t be found in the Sumerian texts.

There´s even no point to argue about that. Go on and search for yourself. Sitchin didn´t have access to any privileged material; He used the same information sources as all other scholars. What he describes in his work is simply not available anywhere in these sources.

[SilentFeathers]

Ah, now it all makes sense. Even the life work of a researcher has to be poo-pooed here, of course.
But we can believe in the Illuminati, black op advanced weaponry, time and space dimensional entities, Archons, God, jump rooms, alternate energy and physics theories, artifacts on the moon, mars and elsewhere - but oh, no, there had better be no talk of Anunaki because the learned amongst us has decided that topic is unreliable and perhaps even a lie.

I personally think that when a persons work (such as Sitchins) is presented to the people as fact and truth, but highly contradicted by several other scholars and researchers, and in this case, several other language experts and researchers, that the original presenter (Sitchins) should be question to his honesty and or agenda....and also should be possibly considered "misleading or deceiving" others, regardless if it's intentional or not.

As for the annunaki, they are actually mentioned in some other ancient texts, not always spelled the same and perhaps actually meaning another tribe or peoples, but the word itself is not from Sitchins himself and could actually be a factual term or referring to a certain group of people.

[ghostrider]

According to Ptaah, the pyramids are 70,000 years old built by star people that came to earth from the Vega, Sirrus, Orion galaxies. They mixed with the three original tribes , dark hair, dark skin, dark eyes, they were worshipped as Gods and the masses were controlled and genetically altered by these beings. 10 percent brain use ? Junk DNA ? you think it's an accident ?? The adama and Eva ?? These beings fled the wars and wanted to remember home , hence pyriamds on mars and earth and the moon.

[onawah]

The site at the link you gave, http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/ looks pretty complex and intimidating foir non-scholars.
Is there a more accessible summation of what non-Sitchin scholars believe the Sumerian tablets say?
No one has mentioned this as yet, but in former threads about Sitchin, there was evidence to the effect he stated he was actually channeling the information he disseminated in his books, though I don't recall anyone ever offering any theories as to who he was channeling.


Hey mate,


According to the tenth Sumerian tablet (written in Enki's own words), the Anunnaki built the pyramids of Egypt as beacons for their new main spaceport on Earth, after the old one had been wiped out by the biblical Great Flood. In the Sumerian tablets it is known as the Deluge and it was activated by Nibiru's passing, but not solely caused by it.

I challenge anyone here to seriously try to find such statements on any Sumerian text. There are very accurate translations available on the web. I recommend this one (http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/).


Just before the deluge started, most of the Anunnaki returned to Nibiru, but some of them decided to stay.

There´s no reference whatsoever in the Sumerian tablets that points Nibiru (actually the proper translation would be Neberu) as the home planet of the Annunaki, the 12º planet of our solar system or an outsider planet with a 3600 years cycle. Most citations of Nibiru points it as a "place of crossing" and some point it as planet Mercury.

Again, such article seems to be mostly based on Zacharia Sitchin´s work, which is mostly fictional. Every ancient language scholar specialized in the Sumerian tablets out there agree that Sitchin´s transliterations are completely wrong and inaccurate; they´re fabricated information.

This is just another case of people mistaking Sitchin´s books for real historical books, while in fact they are fictional free interpretations of the Sumerian cuneiform tablets.

Cheers,

Raf.

Ps: Just checked the article sources and indeed they come from "The Lost Book of Enki", by Zacharia Sitchin.:doh:

[The Royal Wizard]

IMO no one can say for sure what is fact and what is not. How you understand an ancient language depends on how you look at the world, how open your mind is and how willing you are to take into concideration that your own paradigm may be wrong. In that regard Sitchin may be right, and so called experts may be wrong. But we do know one thing for sure, no one living to day was present when the tablets were made, so talking about facts is really arrogant IMO.

You can compare this to the story about the woman who claimed she was raped by a reptilian. The hypnotist must have been pretty broadminded to believe such a thing. Most people would only have dismissed the whole thing as a raving lunatic of a womans imagination.

All the best

TRW


You have completely misinterpreted my statements.

Who am I to say what happened back then, when the Sumerians were thriving as a civilization.

All I´m saying is that Sitchin says a lot of things that can´t be found anywhere in the known Sumerian cuneiform texts. That´s an undeniable fact.

He claimed that his information came from the Sumerian tablets, while in fact, he fabricated the biggest part of his material out of pure imagination.

Feel free to search the available Sumerian database for yourself and see if you can find anything to back up his major claims.

I have not misinterpreted anything, and definitely not you in special. I'm just saying that claiming som experts statements as facts is a chance to take. And you did not comment on my views on paradigms. There is diffecult not to think that you belive the so called experts and so called evidence in this "case". How could that be an misinterpretation?

[Ernie Nemeth]

Interesting how it is the individual words, especially the plural of Elohim that has spoiled the soup.
No one argues that the Anunaki did genetic tests and experiments.
No one argues the Anunaki were real and not just literary works of fiction.
No one argues the "tools of civilization" were given us, part and parcel, by the Anunaki.

Yet stick in an argument about a word and his whole life's work is cast under a cloud of suspicion.

Isn't that how TPTW divide and conquer?

But I am not a debater, nor do I hang my opinions on the best argument, but on what fits the facts the best.

[RMorgan]

The site at the link you gave, http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/ looks pretty complex and intimidating foir non-scholars.
Is there a more accessible summation of what non-Sitchin scholars believe the Sumerian tablets say?
No one has mentioned this as yet, but in former threads about Sitchin, there was evidence to the effect he stated he was actually channeling the information he disseminated in his books, though I don't recall anyone ever offering any theories as to who he was channeling.

Hello my friend,

It´s a little hard to research and it takes some practice and previous knowledge indeed. The internet made us a little bit lazy; Good information is rarely easy to research.

If you have access to any major University library, you may be able to find Sumerian dictionaries there. Ask the librarian for Materials for the Sumerian Lexicon. I could find a few volumes here in Brazil, so you´ll probably be able to find something where you live as well.

You can also download volumes of the Assyrian dictionary in this link (http://oi.uchicago.edu/research/pubs/catalog/cad/) (click on the blue arrow of each volume to download the PDF)

Here is a link (http://www.sumerian.org/sumerian.pdf) for a large but summarized PDF file of a Sumerian Lexicon as well.

Anyway, here are the links for two videos teaching to use this and other tools. I hope it helps.

http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/nibiru/nibiru.html

http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/ETCSL%20Anunnaki%20online%20search/ETCSL%20Anunnaki%20online%20search.html

Raf.

[ThePythonicCow]

IMO no one can say for sure what is fact and what is not. How you understand an ancient language depends on how you look at the world, how open your mind is and how willing you are to take into concideration that your own paradigm may be wrong. In that regard Sitchin may be right, and so called experts may be wrong. But we do know one thing for sure, no one living to day was present when the tablets were made, so talking about facts is really arrogant IMO.

You can compare this to the story about the woman who claimed she was raped by a reptilian. The hypnotist must have been pretty broadminded to believe such a thing. Most people would only have dismissed the whole thing as a raving lunatic of a womans imagination.

All the best

TRW


You have completely misinterpreted my statements.

Who am I to say what happened back then, when the Sumerians were thriving as a civilization.

All I´m saying is that Sitchin says a lot of things that can´t be found anywhere in the known Sumerian cuneiform texts. That´s an undeniable fact.

He claimed that his information came from the Sumerian tablets, while in fact, he fabricated the biggest part of his material out of pure imagination.

Feel free to search the available Sumerian database for yourself and see if you can find anything to back up his major claims.

I have not misinterpreted anything, and definitely not you in special. I'm just saying that claiming som experts statements as facts is a chance to take. And you did not comment on my views on paradigms. There is diffecult not to think that you belive the so called experts and so called evidence in this "case". How could that be an misinterpretation?

Could you take it a bit more easy, The Royal Wizard? You seem to me to be protesting a bit too loudly the correctness of your views, and dismissing (to the point of labeling as "arrogant") the views of others. Clear understandings are elusive, and the discussions that can lead to them usually benefit from a more gentle touch. Also, I recommend that you remain open to the possibility that you have misinterpreted another; such is a common occurrence, for all of us.

[norman]

I dunno what's what with all this but I know I personally don't like the idea that any ET life form that I inherited my extra non ape genes from was a warlike civilization.

I "want" to believe the war thing comes from my ape side and the 'higher' breeding comes from something much finer.

I "need" to believe that to avoid getting hopelessly depressed about life and everything.

[Shade]

Something interesting about all this is the aspect of 'myth programming'. In some cases it can be deliberate as of design, others the progression of an agenda can be non deliberate. Here, the imprint which is perpetuated is one of overlords. As this is given, so then the Cabal can step into the roles 'interdimensionally'. It is using a natural imprint or tendency in our being and enlarging upon it. But it does seek to keep an entity immature. However, if you want to grow up, you can always do so at your own discretion. So they make the imprint of a ruler race and it enters the psyche and creates a set up in which they operate. The 'Annunaki' stories serve that purpose as well as the Astra Albus, Anu and Annunaki of the Colonel X interview with Anthony Sanchez. That was one of the things in there (the colonel X interview) that stood out to me as agenda imprinted. That doesn't mean that Colonel X had an agenda, but he could have, in relation to this. It could be unintentional, or, it could be a part of a larger agenda, in which myth dispersal and archetype reinforcement for the operations of the 'ruling earthly parties' is employed. Similarly if the whole interview was constructed by Sanchez, he is probably unwittingly reinforcing that archetypal plan.

What is happening is that the space between the 2nd and 9th dimensions, as I referred to them before, are being hijacked, and the crowns are claimed in the flesh by those who do not hold them in energy actually; by all mechanical measure in all dimensions. The 'Anu' (and associated terms), as well as referring to a particular range of atomic states also refers to the hijacking of the central line by going up the 'back passage'* so to speak. Those who DO hold the crowns in all dimensions (the true holders), are forced thereby to hold and 'lookafter' (as a parent to a child or in this perversion a master to a slave) the souls of those who are held in and down by an agenda of stopping souls from growing up, stopping them from claiming their own crowns and responsibilities for themselves. Higher soul constructions are left to manage the slaves, as in they have no choice to manage them like as in a bodily function because the higher consciousnesses hold beings embedded as a part of them within them and because they are conscious they are forced to manage them as such because they just won't and/or can't move.. it's blocked... a back up of souls that can't grow up.. blocked life force.. producing pain in all of humanity. I suppose that you would call these guys masters, traditionally, but they are just regular people as far as I am aware. Regular as a loose term : ). It becomes a forced perversion [a rerouting of the energy of the central line into a dead ended timeline] of the sacred task of absolute service to the tantric other who is all lovers, all beings, you are. Current ruling parties are date raping their heart holders (lovers, hearts, spiritual bodies, over soul flue masters; oldest souls).

What I would say then, is that the Anu.. they are just a story. A story. A way of seeing reality and your position within it. We really ARE sovereign. Really. In the whole universal scheme, we are. Anything which demonstrates otherwise is a lie, a projection and not even real. The universe has even obliged with the props to support the story, if you would like to believe in it and play in it. But they are not what they appear to be [any aliens which support or define the 'overlord' imprint]. They exist not in the central line of actual future motion and immortal infinite existence [that which is true life and full consciousness, truth and omniscient knowing right now].

* This is like, they have taken 'Woman' out of the story and replaced her with other men. So that rather than there being a mind body balance they have just gone straight from mind to another mind. Admittedly there is argument that they had to do so because 'Woman' was not evolved enough yet (the Earth) to hold them properly. Well... she is now f*cktards so get off. Unless bums are your thing, naturally. In which case, carry on.

[Chester]

I dunno what's what with all this but I know I personally don't like the idea that any ET life form that I inherited my extra non ape genes from was a warlike civilization.

I "want" to believe the war thing comes from my ape side and the 'higher' breeding comes from something much finer.

I "need" to believe that to avoid getting hopelessly depressed about life and everything.

This is me too - this is what I "want" to believe and for exactly the same reasons. Knowing this about myself allows me to rise above this "want" and re-open my mind... what if I DID, in part, come from an ET life form that was a warlike civilization? Couldn't I be the change I want to see and perhaps that ET side of my family might learn from me?

I see opportunity, not hopelessness in this possibility.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Sichin did what other historians only wished they had thought of first. He brought back to life in his Earth Chronicles series, the first high civilization on this planet. That their lives were so bizzarre is not so surprising, considering they just swung out of the trees and landed in a civilization barrelling full steam ahead! How else could such an advanced peoples come to be without outside help in such a short period of time?

Those other historians are jealous more than anything else. In his books, Sichin explains the controversy, both his side and his opponents'. It is not like he tried to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. And it is the historians who keep the language parameters in sight and ignore the cultural aspects that went wrong with their interpretations. But I will admit the jury is still out, only because the historians will not agree with the truth, for their own vested interests.

Sichin did us all a great service, illuminating a time in our dim and distant past that has shaped who we are today. Now if other brave souls would only do the same for the Nag Hamadhi texts, we might learn the truth of biblical times as well, adding to the picture of history that has been obscurred for over six thousand years.

[WhiteFeather]

Question to Miriam Delicado. What is known by the information given so far, is that Nibiru, is in fact a grouping of planets placed around a big, one tenth less the size of Jupiter, brown dwarf s failed star. This would be described as a high density made of ion powered dust, with an active, but not volatile inner core powered by fusion, (ball).


There is no dissemination as to the character and nature of proposed said planet Nibiru.

If this traveling body does come near Earth, the brown dwarf’s mass alone, will act in similar fashion to a bowling ball, pressing against a series of side by side rubber bands.The mass of this brown dwarf pressing each level of rubber bands, into one another…These band represent all the other timelines, or realities placed on Earth and it is said that these realities will have come together for a short time.

The beings placed on the planets around Nibiru, are said to be genetically engineered great grandsons, to the tenth multiplied power, of the great once space faring (Anu-knockie), Anunokie.

These beings are said after Niebaru passes Earth, will attempt to land.

They are also said to be superiorly engineered descendants of their great relatives.

Other rumors have been circulated, that the arrival of Nibiru will not come at all, that the appearance of this said brown dwarf, will be a hologram projection from a large spaceship, which will make the Earthpeople ooh and awe, like little field animals seeing fireworks displays, for the first time.

So from the sources that have come in, these seem to be the two representations of Nibiru?

On the inhabitants of the planets around this system. From what is filtered by a fact truth and not true process, there seems to be possibly two sects of Anunaki involved.

One is a form of highly intelligent bipedal lizard. And two, seems to be a smaller form of humanoid giant.

These deductions were made from ancient Sumerian cultural digs, which had showed these two depictions of the possible differing kinds of Anunaki.

>It is said that the Hollywood industry, through the masons had made the last of the predator alien series of movies, to show what an advanced version of the great grandsons of the Anunakie would resemble.

Not sure about all of this, have simply brought this info forward.

Thank You for sharing this with us. I am not sure on it either. There is alot of talk about Nibiru and what it is, where it is, what it represents. What is really important is not what we can speculate on but what we carry in our hearts. Learn who you are and everything in this life will be revealed. Miriam

Miriam Delicado's website here: http://www.bluestarprophecy.com/nibiru-real-or-hologram/

[Ernie Nemeth]

I now understand the Sichin naysayers. They have never read his works. If they had they would see that Sichin backs EVERYTHING he says with actual pictures of the tablets he is translating. He often underlines his facts by placing the Sumerian, Akkadian and English translations side-by-side! Also, every one of the arguments against Sichin IS ADDresSEd in his books! So, you want to believe those who only study the language and do not place them in context will be misled.
I do not care whether Sichin is right or not. I just find it ridiculous how strenuously some go out of their way to disparage this exceptional man. Only Sichin put all the pieces together. The remaining experts have tunnel vision due to their specialties.
I guess what got me up in arms is now I understand why my previous mentions of Sichin have fallen on deaf ears. Even his lifetime's work has been cast in doubt and no one will believe it now because few will take the time to actually read his work.

[OneLittleFrog]

It simply astounds me that so many Avalonians fall all over each other to embrace every thrilling new revelation from the latest abductees, 'insiders,' channelers, or self-styled messiahs; but mention the name Sitchin and everyone's immediately firing up the flamethrowers :flame:. Especially since the old man's death. IMO, Sitchin probably had some things wrong and some things right, like all other alternative researchers, but the hateful (not to mention well-heeled and and well-orchestrated) attacks on him exceeded what any other researcher had to face. Sad.

[Skywizard]

We all know that in ancient times many strange things happened that until this day haven't been explained in a complete way based on facts and truth, nor do we even come close to fully understanding the truth of many many things, such as; "Who built the pyramids and what were they built for"????

IMO, Sitchins has drastically corrupted the journey in our search for the truth for anyone that believes his books are fact and truth. They are NOT based on facts and it's being proven more and more all the time that Sitchin's basically just had a wild imagination........


We all know that in ancient times many strange things happened that until this day haven't been explained in a complete way based on facts and truth, nor do we even come close to fully understanding the truth of many many things, such as; "Who built the pyramids and what were they built for"????

IMO, Sitchins has drastically corrupted the journey in our search for the truth for anyone that believes his books are fact and truth. They are NOT based on facts and it's being proven more and more all the time that Sitchin's basically just had a wild imagination........
also a quote of... silentfeathers

As for the annunaki, they are actually mentioned in some other ancient texts, not always spelled the same and perhaps actually meaning another tribe or peoples, but the word itself is not from Sitchins himself and could actually be a factual term or referring to a certain group of people.
also a quote of… silentfeathers

we can believe in the Illuminati, black op advanced weaponry, time and space dimensional entities, Archons, God, jump rooms, alternate energy and physics theories, artifacts on the moon, mars and elsewhere - but oh, no, there had better be no talk of Anunaki because the learned amongst us has decided that topic is unreliable and perhaps even a lie.
quote of... Ernie Nemeth

I have my doubts about Sitchins also. (Sitchens 1... Scholars many, do the math) But who knows maybe the High Mason in sirdipswitch post stating "Served its purpose well." Might have meant his work only was for the purpose to open peoples minds to where some of us are now? Who really knows, this is only ME saying, but after reading some of his work it really helped to open my mine in the beginning and increased my appetite for more knowledge about our ancient past.

Also as Ernie said "I am not a debater" but Raf. you’re GOOD :nod:. You and other members here is why, for one reason, I joined this forum.

For me this has been a good thread.


Change or Accept!
~skywizard

[AlexanderLight]

@RMorgan Brother, you have discredited the work of Sitchin without bringing ONE piece of evidence to your claims. Everything you say is nothing more than your uniformed opinion, unfortunately.

It is very disturbing for me to witness awakened people who believe the official stories, while discrediting those who compromised their lives, exposed themselves to ridicule, risked assassination, just to present the truth.

Lately, every person who tells me Sitch wrote everything from imagination, links me to the website http://www.sitchiniswrong.com. I don't know how many of them had actually visited the site, because it doesn't bring proof that Sitchin was wrong, other than evidence of several words that he might have misspelled. Misspelled words, if it is the case, are not evidence that he invented everything he wrote in his books.

But I have studied the website, and the provided texts actually support Sitchin's translations.

I will give you only one example, of an Anunnaki "god" waging war against the human armies of another Anunnaki "god":

70-95: "The lord arose, touching the sky; Ninurta went to battle, with one step (?) he covered a league, he was an alarming storm, and rode on the eight winds towards the rebel lands. His arms grasped the lance. The mace snarled at the mountains, the club began to devour all the enemy. He fitted the evil wind and the sirocco on a pole (?), he placed the quiver on its hook (?). An enormous hurricane, irresistible, went before the hero, stirred up the dust, caused the dust to settle, levelled high and low, filled the holes. It caused a rain of coals and flaming fires; the fire consumed men. It overturned tall trees by their trunks, reducing the forests to heaps, Earth put her hands on her heart and cried harrowingly; the Tigris was muddied, disturbed, cloudy, stirred up. He hurried to battle on the boat Ma-kar-nunta-ea; the people there did not know where to turn, they bumped into (?) the walls. The birds there tried to lift their heads to fly away, but their wings trailed on the ground. The storm flooded out the fish there in the subterranean waters, their mouths snapped at the air. It reduced the animals of the open country to firewood, roasting them like locusts. It was a deluge rising and disastrously ruining the mountains."
(...)
244-251. Ninurta opened his mouth to speak to the mace ……. He aimed the lance at the mountains ……. The lord stretched out an arm towards the clouds. Day became a dark night. He yelled like a storm, …….
2 lines unclear
251-264. The lord …… the wind. In his battle he smote the mountains with a cudgel. The Šar-ur made the storm-wind rise to heaven, scattering the people; like …… it tore. Its spittle alone destroyed the townspeople. The destructive mace set fire to the mountains."
Source: http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.1.6.2&display=Crit&charenc=gcirc&lineid=t162.p72#t162.p72

Even the above text describes out-of-this-world technology. Ninurta used a flying "boat" to roam the skies and launch missiles of great destruction upon the ground. Of course the historians cannot accept this, so they are the ones who corrupt the translations, in order to make everything sound more acceptable. Please, notice the question marks within the text. Those are alternative translations, because the described technology is not of those times! And the texts are presented by the website http://www.sitchiniswrong.com!

In your opinion, doesn't seem a little strange for someone to spend so much time, effort and money (websites and their maintenance cost money) to discredit Sitchin? Am I allowed to assume that its financing could come from CIA's black budgets?

Here are the answers to all questions raised by the sitchinwaswrong website:
http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/FirstResponseToMyOpenLetterandHeiserReply.pdf
___________________________________________________________________________________

But you know what? Let us stop talking about written texts for a while! It's said that "a picture is worth a thousand words", so let us examine some Sumerian, Babylonian and Egyptian depictions. Please, write the caption for them:

1. Sumerian gods using flying vehicles:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-f_ILZiXqNVs/ULjqVj2nyAI/AAAAAAAAElg/cwGpbblePes/s1600/Sumerian+Anunnaki+Flying+Whirlwinds.png

2. Egyptian papyrus fragment, commemorating RA's (Anunnaki god Marduk) arrival on Earth in a flying saucer:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ziflNVBP0Y0/ULfZIVuFZSI/AAAAAAAAEdA/hTiC4sK6xcY/s1600/Ra's+arrival+on+Earth.png

3. Sumerian depiction:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MzQQS8imqrw/ULfLIWD7SVI/AAAAAAAAEbY/zLq8dw6gznA/s1600/Ninurta.png

4. Depiction of "god" Ninurta wearing cross necklace, wrist device (watch?) and pressing buttons on a panel (about 5-6,000 years old):
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_u3D7kCdnYZs/TREAtRhpydI/AAAAAAAAAVY/pzTHMzQB44g/s1600/Anunnaki_King_Gate.jpg

5. Sumerian -- Anunnaki "gods" and the tree of life (the knowledge of genetic manipulation) :
http://www.ibreak4bacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/muses-ninurta_from_tarbasu.jpg

6. About 6,000 years old Sumerian depiction of our solar system, with the sun in the center and accurate size of our planets:
http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/107/fd87cb768db177938883018602c621cf/l.jpg

7. 4,000+ years old Anunnaki zigurat (pyramidal temple) in Ur. The upper two levels collapsed:
http://www.kingsacademy.com/mhodges/11_Western-Art/02_Mesopotamian/2000BC_Ur-ziggurat_FSH-023.jpg
(I cannot add more pictures, but you can find them on Google with a simple search).

Now, do you still believe Sitchin was wrong? Please, read his books before discrediting him and do not allow yourself to be manipulated by agents of the elite.

[RMorgan]

Hi AlexanderLight,

Well, I have given you links to actual Sumerian and Akkadian dictionaries. I also have given links to videos teaching how to properly use these tools.

His first fundamental mistakes aren´t related to mistranslations, but begin with the assumption that ancient myths are not myths but historical and scientific texts.

Also, most of his fundamental claims can´t be found anywhere in the Summerian tablets, which logically means he took his information from somewhere else, probably his imagination (some claim he channeled information as well).

Eg; Where did he find the info that Nibiru is a planet beyond Pluto, with a 3600 years cycle and the home of the Annunaki?

If Sitchin is right, then all other scholars have misread the Summerian tablets. I´m not talking about one scholar here and there; I´m talking about all of them, from all over the world; Honest men that dedicated their whole lives studying ancient languages. I haven´t met any real ancient language scholar that agrees with his interpretation.

About the pictures of your above post, first, you have to be aware that ancient civilizations used symbology in their art. It´s ancient art, not ancient "photojournalism". You also have to be aware that your bias will make you see things that aren´t really there.

As an example, where you see a man pressing buttons, there are not buttons. He´s pointing his finger to the right, there are some symbols above him and his "watch" looks more like a bracelet. That´s it. Whatever you assume about such forms of art that goes beyond what´s really depicted there is considered speculation with no scientific bases.

Anyway, you´re clearly mistaken when you assume I haven´t read his books. I´ve not only read a few of his books, but I started my own research to verify if he was right or wrong. I have the habit to not blindly believe anything before doing my own research.

So, I´ve read all pro-Sitchin arguments I could find, including his own work, and I´ve read all anti-Sitchin arguments all well. My personal conclusion is that his work is much more speculative than scientific.

Anyway, please, you are free to believe whatever you want, really. This is what makes you a sovereign human being.

We can always agree to disagree.

My best regards,

Raf.

[Shade]

He is wearing a wristwatch eh? I've got an argument as to why he isn't an ancient assinaut...
What would he be doing wearing a wristwatch? If he was technologically advanced he'd have a mobile phone.

Therefore clearly.
He's not an alien.

: D
eh? eh? Is that a good argument or what?


Taken from http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/references-and-transcripts/anunnaki/
(http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/references-and-transcripts/anunnaki/)
nbBvYxx1ODc

Section: The Annunaki

Ancient Aliens: “In the ancient texts of Sumeria we have descriptions of these being descending from the sky called the Annunaki. The term Annunaki means ‘those who from the heavens came.”

This is entirely wrong. The word Annunaki means “princely seed” or “princely blood”. The idea is that the Annunaki were direct creations of Anu, who was regarded as the father and king of the gods. [1][2][3]

As we will see, this is the main idea associated with the Annunaki in the minds of Sumerians, that is that they were directly created by Anu, and so it makes sense that even their name reflects this idea, that is that they were the offspring of the prince.

“The term itself means ‘of royal seed’ or ‘princely seed’ because the annunaki were considered the offspring of Anu or An – the great God of heaven. The annunaki were also the offspring of An and his consort “ki“ of heaven and earth. [There was] this divine coupling [in] the way the Mesopotamians conceived their pantheon.”

So if the term Annunaki means princely seed or offspring of the prince, how is it that Ancient Aliens says that the word for Annunaki means those who from heavens to earth came?

The short answer is that everything Ancient Aliens says about the Annunaki comes from a man named Zecharia Sitchin. Sitchin wrote many books claiming that the Annunaki were really aliens. Unfortunately, at the time that he wrote this in the 70’s, there weren’t many ways for ordinary people to see if what he was saying is true or not.

To put it simply Sitchin’s translation of the word Annunaki is wrong.

Michael Heiser: “You’ll often read, especially in the writings of Zecharia Sitchin, that the annunaki means something like ‘they who from heaven came’ or some other description that makes them sound like aliens or extra-terrestrials. There isn’t a source on the planet by any Sumerian scholar that would agree with that definition. It’s not a difficult term. I personally don’t think that Sitchin knew Sumerian at all because if you’re going to get a term associated with a very group of important deities wrong, I have to wonder what else you’re going to get wrong.”

Sitchin claimed to be an expert on Sumerian writings, yet we can now see that he didn’t seem to even understand the basic grammar and vocabulary rules of the Sumerian language.v Several real scholars challenged him on his translations, and on his lack of any academic credentials in the field, pointing out that there is no record of Sitchin having anything but a journalism degree[4]:

One such scholar is Michael Heiser. “To this day I haven’t been able to find, nor have other people of whom I’ve asked help – people who liked Sitchin – any credentials of him knowing any of the languages or him being credentialed in any way in ancient near-eastern studies.”

As we progress and look into some of the specifics of Sitchin’s views – articulated by Ancient Aliens – I think you will see that determining the truth about this difficult subject is not out of the hands of the common person.

AA: “It says, word for word, that these beings descended in flying vehicles from the sky.”

This is a preposterous statement. I challenge anyone to produce this “word for word” text.

You can do a search online[5], and literally see all the references to the word Annunaki in the Sumerian texts. The only time it refers to anything even close to this is when it talks about the Annunaki being direct creations of Anu in heaven. A few examples of this would be:

The Anunna, the (gods), whom An conceived in the sky.

The Anunna, whom An in the sky conceived.

These texts emphasize the point that the main Sumerian concept regarding the Annunaki was that they were directly created by An – that’s what’s being said here.

The idea that the text says that they “descended out of flying vehicles” is pure fiction, and that’s the nicest way I can think of to say that.

What Ancient Aliens does here is they show pictures of the winged solar disk as they talk about the Annunaki, and I guess they expect the audience to think that the texts speak of these disks like spacecraft in the Sumerian stories, when in fact the solar disks seen in the iconography are not associated with the Annunaki at all, but rather with the sun and or sun god[6].

This is probably why Tsoucalous says the following:

“And they were always described or depicted [as] floating above some, quote unquote, regular people.”

Since the Annunaki are never depicted floating above people’s heads, we can see that they want people to believe that the solar disk icon equals the Annunaki spacecraft.

This is wrong for several reasons.

Number one, the solar disks in the Sumerian culture, really did represent the sun or the sun god.

The sun travelling across the sky everyday was seen to have been facilitated by wings on the sun. You need to know that there is nothing in these descriptions of the sun in the Sumerian texts that would suggest that they were really talking about a UFO. As boring as it may be, they were really talking about the sun.

One way to demonstrate this is found in the epic of Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh worships Shamash, the sun god, in order to get favor for part of his journey, and he does this by facing east in the morning – that is, in the direction of the rising sun.[7]

The idea that Ancient Aliens proposes here that the Annunaki actually came out of the solar disks or that they were pictured riding in them is just a lie; there is no way around it.

“We can find not only descriptions of the annunaki, but also depictions. We can see them in statues; in carvings, so it’s all very interesting to see that those beings looked like modern-day space travellers with weird suits; some of them wore wrist watchers; they had boots on and helmets and, above all, wings.”

All throughout the Ancient Aliens series they show these pictures of Akkadian winged genies and refer to them as Annunaki. But funnily enough winged genies aren’t Annunaki. In fact these reliefs are not even Sumerian, they’re Akkadian.

But hey, while were here we might as well explain what’s going on in these images, even though they have absolutely nothing to do with the Annunaki.

The belief was that certain aspects of nature were controlled by these winged genies. Most notably they were responsible for the fertilization of the crops.[8][9]

They were often depicted with a bucket of pollen or water in one hand, and a group of male flowers or a pine cone in the other hand. They often are depicted as fertilizing a date tree which was a symbol of fruitfulness.

Sometimes they would be depicted as being pointed at the king which, because of the accompanying inscriptions, we know means that the king was seen to be a type of intermediary between the gods, and responsible for the fruitfulness of the land and the people.[10]

One way to demonstrate this is by explaining what Ancient Aliens calls a “wristwatch.” First, you should take note that if this is a watch then these genies were serious about timekeeping, because they wore one on both wrists, and often on a headband as well. This “watch” is actually an Akkadian symbol for Ishtar the goddess of fertility. You can see the same rosette on the famous Ishtar gate in Babylon.

The fertility of the land was associated with, as you might expect, the goddess of fertility, and these beings are depicted as acting on behalf of Ishtar as they fertilize this date tree.

This also probably explains the wings, considering that the natural and visible way that a flower is pollenated is through bees and birds. Therefore it’s not so hard to see that they were depicting their spiritual agents of pollination with wings as well.

AA: “Zecharia Sitchin has essentially suggested that the reason we were visited in the remote past is because the ancient astronauts’ home planet needed gold for their atmosphere and that their gold-content in the atmosphere was depleting – so they came to earth in order to mine gold and bring it back to their home planet.”

This line about aliens coming to mine gold for their atmosphere, in the ancient past, is widely repeated by Ancient Astronaut theorists. In fact it’s become something of a foundational idea in the movement. This idea traces directly back to Zecharia Sitchin and has absolutely nothing to do with Sumerian texts.

It’s interesting to note that Sitchin doesn’t even give a place in the Sumerian texts to justify this notion that they needed gold for their atmosphere. He says the following in his book “The Wars of Gods and Men”:

“The metal, with its unique properties, was needed back home for a vital need, … as best as we can make out, this vital need could have been for suspending the gold particles in Nibiru’s waning atmosphere and thus shield it from critical dissipation.” (emphasis mine)

So he says ‘as best as we can make out’. Who is ‘we’? And what texts would even hint at that idea. He creates this idea of gold particles being needed in a planet’s atmosphere out of nowhere.

Nowadays you can do a word search for the uses of the word “gold” in the Sumerian texts.[11] We can read every mention of this word.

Not only are the mentions of the word gold relatively few in the Sumerian texts, there is nothing to indicate anything but the most ordinary uses for gold[12]. In fact It’s a surprisingly boring study.

Thanks to meticulous cataloging of the Sumerian texts over the last few decades, and the advent of the internet, we no longer have to take people like Sitchin’s word for it.

Heiser: “There are some databases online that allow you to search through Sumerian texts, and I have a video on my website sitchiniswrong.com. If you go there and click on the Annunaki tab I will show you how to search through something called the electronic text corpus of Sumerian literature. I will show you how you can search for all the occurrences of the word Annunaki and then click through the English translations of all those occurrences. You can find this material and I would encourage you to do so because you can check up on Zecharia Sitchin; you can check up on me.

When I claim that there are no texts [and] there are no tablets that have, for instance, the Annunaki on Nibiru or associated with Nibiru; that Nibiru isn’t a planet beyond Pluto, how easy would it be to prove me wrong if you knew how to search for those terms? It would be real easy, and I encourage you to check up on me and everybody else and do the work. You can access this material and know who’s telling you the truth.”

We can finally see for ourselves why the Sumerian scholars have been so critical of Sitchin, not because they are too close minded or anything like that, but because Sitchin really doesn’t seem to know what he is talking about.

Let me give you an example of how Sitchin comes up with his “amazing” translations.

Let’s take this idea that the Sumerian texts speak of mining gold. Now since the Sumerian texts do not speak of mining gold in any way, Sitchin has to construct this idea out of thin air. This is how he did it:

Let’s look at a quote from his first book “The Twelfth Planet”:

“Some Mesopotamian hymns to Ea exalt him as Bel Nimiki, translated “lord of wisdom”; but the correct translation should ‘undoubtedly be “lord of mining.”

In classic Sitchin style he never gives any reason that the “correct translation should ‘undoubtedly be “lord of mining.” He just says it should be and leaves it at that.

Again, we have Sumerian dictionaries written by the scribes themselves, and the Sumerians don’t agree with Sitchin here at all, so why should we?

I think one way to demonstrate how bad of a translation this is, is to read a little about Ea’s or Enki’s wisdom in context, and let you see if it makes sense to you as meaning wisdom or if it really means mining.

This is an example from a Sumerian text called Enuma Elish:

HE WHO UNDERSTANDS ALL
The Wise One,
The Great One,
EA who Knows ALL THAT IS,
Perceived the Plot.
He countered it
With a Powerful Spell.

Not only does it describe his wisdom further by saying “he who understands all” but it also says that because of this wisdom he was able to perceive a plot before it happened and counter it. None of what we just read makes sense if “wisdom” means mining.

Or from the same epic:

EA,
Who knows ALL THINGS,
Knew he could not Defeat
KINGU and the Hosts of TIAMAT.

Here again we see a contextual definition of Ea’s knowledge. He knows all again, and we see this knowledge helped him understand that he could not defeat Kingu.

These are not isolated descriptions of this knowledge; Ea is the god of wisdom for a reason. Nothing said about him makes sense if his knowledge means mining, or even knowledge about mining. All the stories about him highlight his great understanding, and conversely there isn’t even a hint that he cares a lick about digging for gold or anything else…it’s just not there. It requires an ignorance of the Sumerian texts in order to be believed.

Let’s move on to another claim about the Annunaki:

AA: “Virtually every story that’s in Genesis – the flood story, the Adam and Eve story – all have precedents with the ancient Sumerians. The story that came down to the Sumerians is that the Annunaki were mining gold on the Earth and the run-of-the-mill workers complained saying: ‘This is really hard work and we’re tired. We don’t want to do this anymore’ and so they had a big council and they decided to create a primitive worker called an Adamou. The Annunaki created humans as a slave species.”

The first thing to be aware of here is that in the epic of creation that they are referring to here, the God’s weren’t mining gold. The work that the gods were doing is creating the world, kind of what you would expect from a creation epic.

It even specifically states that they were making mountains and rivers, such as the Tigris and Euphrates. [13]The gods here were tired of creating the earth not gold mining.

The epic goes on to describe the following events:

· The gods decide to mix up themselves with clay and make man.
· As the version of men they made increased in number, the noise they made angered the gods.
· They decide to kill them off with a flood.
· One man is instructed to build a boat.
· He put animals on it.
· It rains for seven days and seven nights.
· The man and his family are saved.

There are many similarities between these Sumerian writings and to the biblical accounts of the creation of man and Noah’s flood.

Some people think this is due to the writers of the Bible copying the earlier Sumerian writings. This is problematic because even the critics who specialize in this style of ancient literature say there is no evidence of literary borrowing[14], in fact just the opposite. They propose that they must be referring to a common source for the information.

One paper by A. Heidel, A.R. Millard and D. Damrosch concludes this way:

“Literary dependence cannot be demonstrated. Here, as in most of the parallels in the primeval history, it is considered more likely that Mesopotamian and biblical traditions are based on a common source. Some understand this common source to be a piece of more ancient literature, while others consider it the actual event.’ Hill & Walton, ‘A Survey of the Old Testament’, p. (2010).

Add to this that it is not just the Sumerian texts and the bible that are talking about the same basic story, but obvious elements of this story can be found in almost every early culture, regardless of its location.

Take for example the story of Viracocha in South America.

Viracocha created the heavens and the earth. He then took large stones and breathed life into them. But they became giants, so he sent a flood to wipe them out. After the flood he breathed into smaller stones than the first time thereby creating smaller people, which were then scattered all over the world.[15]

And in the bible, in Genesis 6 we see something similar. The Sons of God disobeyed God, they came to earth had sex with human women, producing giants called Nephilim. The Nephilim over time almost eliminated the original human population, and this is one of the reasons that God sent the flood.[16]

These stories are found in some form in cultures as geographically separated as you can get. They are in China, Europe, the Middle East, they are found in Native American traditions, in South America and many others.xvii

The similarities are too obvious to simply dismiss. Things like 8 people being on the boat are mentioned in a good percentage of these stories.[17]

I personally think that all these cultures are drawing from the same original story, a story that was told only one way, and that as migrations happened from this original group they started adding in details that were more locally important to them. But that each of these cultures sincerely believed they were passing on the true account of the origin of humanity to their descendants as this story was told.

Ironically if you take it at face value, if there was really a flood and all people except for the ones on the boat were destroyed, and if most modern cultures were descended from them, the fact that the entire world seems to have inherited the same story would make sense, because they essentially had the same eight ancestors who experienced such a dramatic event, and made it a point to pass the story to each generation.

I propose that something like this really did happen in ancient history. I don’t see any logical way around it. The question I have is which, if any of these accounts, is closest to the truth?

Ancient Aliens tells us that the Sumerian version is closest to the truth because they were recorded earlier. That makes sense to a point, but we have to remember that the events described in the Sumerian texts were still ancient history to the Sumerians. So the question is not so much about the date of the writing, but rather their ability to preserve the story.

I’ll give you a few very good reasons to seriously doubt that the Sumerian accounts should be given more weight where they differ from the others.

The first is that the Sumerians stories are not logically consistent.

Take for example that in both the Sumerian and Biblical accounts, dimensions for the boat are given.

The mere fact that an important part of this story is the dimensions of the boat is interesting, but when you draw out the dimensions, you have on the one hand the Sumerian boat, being a big cube, and the biblical one being described by naval engineers as nearly perfect for maintaining stability without hull damage in incredibly rough seas.[18]

Another reason not to trust the Sumerian texts where they differ from the others is that, as every Sumerian scholar knows, the Sumerians constantly change the details of their stories to suit the different situations.

For example, texts of the same story found in the temple of Enki will differ from ones found in the temple of Innana, even if they are from the same time period, but especially if they’re from a different time period. To quote one Sumerian scholar:

“Inconsistencies are a regular feature of Sumerian poetry.”

He goes on to say that “integration of different texts [by the Sumerian scribes] often appear somewhat careless.”[19]

Compare that with the ancient Hebrew scribes, who were notorious for taking their job ultra-seriously. They had many rules that governed their coping of their sacred texts. For example, it is said that they would have to speak every letter out loud before committing it to paper.[20][21]

One example of a vindication of this meticulous attention to detail is with the Isaiah scroll found in the Dead Sea scrolls.

The earliest copies of the Hebrew Old Testament before the Dead Sea Scrolls were the Masoretic texts which were copied between the years 600-1000AD. So the Isaiah scroll, one of the best preserved scrolls, would be a way to prove or disprove if their scriptures had been faithfully copied by the scribes during the previous 800 years. As it turned out they did a flawless job and the Hebrew scribes were vindicated.[22][23]

So when deciding which texts are more accurate as it relates to their accounts of ancient events it is far more logical to assume that the group with a tradition of accurate preservation and transmission of their texts should be given more weight than a culture like the Sumerians who seemed to have little interest in the accurate transmission of the details of their stories.

To sum up, almost everything that Ancient Aliens says about the Annunaki is untrue, which is not surprising considering they copy and pasted almost everything in this section from the books of Zecharia Sitchin.

For more information about Sitchin’s errors in his translations of the Sumerians and Arkaddian texts, I will direct you to the excellent website of doctor Michael Heiser ‘Sitchiniswrong.com’.

[1] A. Kienast, “Igigu und Anunnaku: Nach Den Akkadischen Quellen” (Igigu and Anunnaki According to the Akkadian Sources)

[2] W. von Soden, “Babylonische Göttergruppen: Igigu und Anunnaku, Zum Bedeutungswandel theologischer Begriffe” (Babylonian God-Groups: Igigu and Anunnaku: Changes in the Meanings of Theological Terms)

[3] Die Anunna in der Sumerischen Überlieferung The Anunna in the Sumerian Tradition A. Falkenstein, Heidelberg Literal Translation (with some adjustment for clarity) by Kalene E. Barry

[4] Ibid.

[5]http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk

[6] “Shamash.” Windows to the Universe, n.d. http://www.windows2universe.org/mythology/shamash_sun.html

[7] In the Babylonian epic Gilgamesh. When Gilgamesh and Enkidu travel to slay Humbaba, each morning they pray and make libation to shamash in the direction of the rising sun for safe travels.

[8] The Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art, Kansas City, Missouri, Winged Genie Fertilizing a Date Tree, 884-860 B.C.E.
Assyrian, http://nelson-atkins.org/collections/iscroll-objectview.cfm?id=24456

[9]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winged_genie

[10] Ada Cohen, Steven E. Kangas. “Assyrian Reliefs from the Palace of Ashurnasirpal II A Cultural Biography.” In Assyrian Reliefs from the Palace of Ashurnasirpal II A Cultural Biography, 2010.

[11] Please note before doing this search for gold: that in this search for the word gold you will sometimes see a reference to “Nibru” this is not the same thing as the infamous “Nibiru.” When they bring gold to “Nibru” they are actually taking it to a real Sumerian city: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nippur Now here is how to do the “gold” search: http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?simplesearchword=gold&simplesearch=translation&searchword=&charenc=gcirc&lists=

[12] Ibid.

[13] The Epic of Atrahasis, Line 25,26,30: http://www.livius.org/as-at/atrahasis/atrahasis.html

[14] By John H. Walton. Ancient Israelite Literature in Its Cultural Context: A Survey of Parallels ,P.41, http://books.google.co.ke/books?id=FENzqidE2lsC&pg=PA41&lpg=PA41&dq=literary+borrowing+Atrahasis+noah&source=bl&ots=jq4gNIPa_J&sig=0WoWbU6wvMJAjo5DJJ-kt3sQ46Y&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mRsJUIbLMtG4hAe1qI3jCQ&ved=0CEwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=literary%20borrowing%20Atrahasis%20noah&f=false.

[15]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viracocha.htm

[16] Genesis 6:1–14 The Holy Bible: King James Version. 2009 (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version.) (Ge 6). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

[17] “Flood Legends From Around The World.” Flood Legends From Around The World, n.d. http://www.nwcreation.net/noahlegends.html/.

[18] S.W. Hong, S.S. Na, B.S. Hyun, S.Y. Hong, D.S. Gon April 1, 1994 “Safety Investigation of Noah’s Ark in a Seaway” http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/tj/v8/n1/noah and Jonathan Sarfati. “Noah’s Flood and the Gilgamesh Epic.” Creation Magazine, March 29, 2004. http://creation.com/noahs-flood-and-the-gilgamesh-epic.

[19] Ian Lawton. “Guide to the Sumerian Texts.” Guide to the Sumerian Texts, 2000. http://www.ianlawton.com/mes4.htm.

[20] Aish HaTorah’s Discovery Seminar. “Accuracy of Torah Text.” Accuracy of Torah Text, n.d. http://www.aish.com/h/sh/tat/48969731.html.

[21]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scribe#Ancient_Israel

[22] Evans, Craig. “Guide to the Dead Sea Scrolls.” 2010.

[23] Jeff A. Benner. “Isaiah Scroll and the Masoretic Text.” Ancient Hebrew Research Center, n.d. http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/31_masorite.html.

[Shade]

As as for the real builders of the pyramids, these videos are very informative

YTgxGJfXRQ0


3zkzZM51LyE

[panopticon]

(Must-Read Article: The remnants of the so called "Noah's Ark", were indeed discovered near the peaks of Ararat Mountains, in Turkey (http://humansarefree.com/2011/01/noahs-ark-found-in-turkey-bible.html)).


Poppy cock. Read the article and it's just a regurgitation of Ron Wyatt's work.
If anyone wants I would be happy to explain why Wyatt's work should not to be taken at face value.
I am surprised because it's usually the 7th Day Adventists who pull this one out and try to pass it off as fact (most Creationists now run from anything to do with Wyatt because of the rubbish he came out with).

As another question, what is the archaeological evidence that a civilisation existed in the region claimed 200,000 years ago (the process used for dating and data from that process is what I'm after).
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Hey guys!

You need to read a book that's over 100 years old to get good info on the pyramids, lol

One of the ones I have is called "A MIRACLE IN STONE" and it explains LOTS.

It tells stories of synchronous personalities, cessation of local deity worship, goodness, and more.

[Shade]

I believe that Micheal Tellinger's 'research' and his public face is now only claiming 'at least 75,000' for Adam's calendar http://www.michaeltellinger.com/adams-calendar.php (http://www.michaeltellinger.com/adams-calendar.php) because he probably by some miracle realised 200,000 is wrong. I remember reading on his original site for it, which I can no longer locate (has been taken down along with many of the other related pages?), for some reason, that he was definitely saying 200,000 and this is what Andrew Collins talks about here http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/articles/txsa_4_adams.htm. The links at the bottom no longer work, and I remember reading Micheal's original site which is what all the spin off articles you can still read around the net were based on. They all grabbed the 200,000 ball and ran with it, and Micheal is now comfortable with his Adam's circle cafe and associated tours (which include the giant footprint in granite? LOL, this should be called the giant magical delusional tour).

Andrew Collins said that there is no evidence to support Adam's circle being out of the same range as Golbeke Tepe (10,000 - 9,000 BC). Certainly there is evidence in the region (South Africa) of Homo genus being there for millions of years - but "A Metropolis", "A City" and an "Annunaki slave hostel" there is ZERO evidence for. But then again, those who want to see the Annunaki Agenda don't really pay much attention to actual evidence, it's all about what their imagination suggests is there and is the most exciting to believe while also reinforcing their psyche and archetypal dramatic base. That's what amazes me about the giant's footprint - they just don't care about physics or that it is obviously erosion. It's a footprint no matter what because that's simply what they want to believe - because it's the most attractive prospect. Life's a movie then. OK>

Scholars aside - both the dream and the flesh have realities. Figuring out in what way is the game. Too much of either (at the expense of the other) or neither in correct combination is just as lacking truth as much as they lack each other.

[panopticon]

I believe that Micheal Tellinger's 'research' and his public face is now only claiming 'at least 75,000' for Adam's calendar http://www.michaeltellinger.com/adams-calendar.php (http://www.michaeltellinger.com/adams-calendar.php) because he probably by some miracle realised 200,000 is wrong. I remember reading on his original site for it, which I can no longer locate (has been taken down along with many of the other related pages?), for some reason, that he was definitely saying 200,000 and this is what Andrew Collins talks about here http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/articles/txsa_4_adams.htm. The links at the bottom no longer work, and I remember reading Micheal's original site which is what all the spin off articles you can still read around the net were based on. They all grabbed the 200,000 ball and ran with it, and Micheal is now comfortable with his Adam's circle cafe and associated tours (which include the giant footprint in granite? LOL, this should be called the giant magical delusional tour).

Andrew Collins said that there is no evidence to support Adam's circle being out of the same range as Golbeke Tepe (10,000 - 9,000 BC). Certainly there is evidence in the region (South Africa) of Homo genus being there for millions of years - but "A Metropolis", "A City" and an "Annunaki slave hostel" there is ZERO evidence for. But then again, those who want to see the Annunaki Agenda don't really pay much attention to actual evidence, it's all about what their imagination suggests is there and is the most exciting to believe while also reinforcing their psyche and archetypal dramatic base. That's what amazes me about the giant's footprint - they just don't care about physics or that it is obviously erosion. It's a footprint no matter what because that's simply what they want to believe - because it's the most attractive prospect. Life's a movie then. OK>

Scholars aside - both the dream and the flesh have realities. Figuring out in what way is the game. Too much of either (at the expense of the other) or neither in correct combination is just as lacking truth as much as they lack each other.

G'day Shade,

Thanks, that's pretty well what I thought, just wanted to know what process was used and data collected to come to this conclusion.
As with the very impressive "evidence" of Wyatt's, once it is looked at half the time it just turns out to be theatrics for the faithful and the other half conclusions are come to because that's what the observer wants to see. I do like to be surprised though (and this has happened on occasion) so am polite and ask the "who, what, where, when, why, how and if/then" questions.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[AlexanderLight]

The problem with some of you guys is that you don't want to RESEARCH anything yourselves, which leads to a lot of confusion. Instead, you copy-paste texts from other people and you want me to analyze everything and prove you otherwise. I'm not trying to convince anyone, of anything, but it is very unfortunate that you call yourselves awaken, while you fall for the DECEPTION of the ruling elite.

Anunnaki does not mean the Royal Ones as the video claims, and here is why:

An means the Celestial One and it is in itself a royal title, given to the first king of Nibiru.
Ki means the Cleaved One, and refers to Earth. After the "celestial battle" described by both texts and at least one clay depiction, half of our planet was crushed (forming the asteroid belt) while the surviving half - much later - received the name KI, the cleaved one.

According to your video, the Anunna means, "the gods whom An in the sky conceived", without any reference to KI = Earth. So, we have:

An = the royal celestial one;
Nunna = gods conceived in the sky (in my interpretation: gods who originated in the Heavens);
Ki = planet Earth;

(IMO, the text refers to the "gods" as having originated from the Heavens, not literally being conceived in the sky. If this is the case, then Sitchin's translation was 100% correct:
"The celestial gods with royal blood which originated in the Heavens to Earth came".

Why do I say this? Because the Sumerians never depicted god or gods as fairy beings never seen by the people. By contrary, they were physical beings, who used to interact with humans. They did not fly because they had wings, like angels, but because they used flying machines. They also had astronaut helmets, called "eagle helmets", etc. So, what the Sumerian described was very technical, compared to the fairy tales of the bible, for example).

In my opinion, mister Michael S. Heiser, is being deceptive, because the name clearly describes a connection between the so called Celestial Ones (the Nibiruan royalty), and Earth.

If you are intimidated by his PhD and you don't want to question his claims, then you can give up everything right now. All the corrupted institutions who are keeping us in the dark (e.g NASA, NSA, CIA, and the scientific institutions from all fields), are using people like Mr. Heiser to lie to us.

For example, if you accept the official story called the "population bottleneck theory" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_bottleneck), which allegedly explains our three huge & sudden evolutionary leaps, because it is supported by people with PhDs, then you can give up your research, because there will always be people with fancy titles supporting whatever theory they are being payed to support.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgvqZixAzm4&list=UUrTm4P9ST0Fo626B0OkhiTg&index=17

Click for video of DNA-proved alien skull (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vz0-1xZr_U&list=UUrTm4P9ST0Fo626B0OkhiTg&index=2)

Regarding the pyramids of Egypt, you honestly believe that quasi stone age & bare-footed slaves were able to achieve that degree of perfection 5,000 years ago?

I say impossible! The sides of the Great Pyramid are almost perfectly placed from N-S and E-W and aligned with Earth's true North, using advanced knowledge of astronomy (the constructors could measure the day, the year and could precisely determine the Equinox. They knew that Earth is a sphere and knew how to accurately calculate its longitude and latitude), advanced mathematics (formulas discovered thousands of years later), etc. And these are only the some of the scientific features...You can read more HERE (http://humansarefree.com/2010/12/following-statement-was-considered.html) (please ignore the bad grammar).
_____________________________________________________________

But dear Shade, there is something striking about your attitude, IMO. Because you disagree with Sitchin's work, the Ancient Aliens series, you don't accept alien intervention in the building of the pyramids, you fight any alternative theories for Adam's calendar and Gobekli Tepe (all deducted from your replies to this thread alone), so I don't really understand your "deal" on the Avalon forums.

There is nothing constructive about your posts, because you only promote the official stories. We already KNOW the official stories, and we don't need someone to quote them for us.

But now I am interested to know more about you (if you are kind enough):

- Do you believe there is extraterrestrial intelligent life (a.k.a. aliens)?
- Are you a religious person?
- What made you sign up for the Avalon forum?

Thank you!

[Shade]

AlexanderLight, you are welcome to look through my previous posts to see what my points of view are on ETs and such. Read up, if you are interested.

[AlexanderLight]

Dear Shade,
I think you might have missed the point of this forum, because people don't make fun of each other's theories here, while quoting the main stream officials. Ridicule is the first sign of someone who is payed for a dirty job, usually followed by official quotes. Here is an example of ridicule:

"He is wearing a wristwatch eh? I've got an argument as to why he isn't an ancient assinaut...
What would he be doing wearing a wristwatch? If he was technologically advanced he'd have a mobile phone.

Therefore clearly.
He's not an alien.

: D
eh? eh? Is that a good argument or what?"

The image of the Anunnaki "god" wearing a so called "wristwatch" was just an example of how advanced their technology could have been (especially after corroborating everything with the texts that describe the Anunnaki using out-of-this-world technology). That wrist device could have been: a watch, GPS, phone, holographic projector, some kind of weapon, activator for a space craft, all of them combined or something else entirely.

To be honest with you, after filling this thread with the opinions of other people (including both the official stories and random articles that you have copy-pasted in here) you could have at least answer these harmless questions. At first I thought that you are a religious person who tries to disprove everything that is not written in or contradicts the bible, but now I think that you may be one of those people who are being payed just to TROLL interesting threads. All forums have them, but you may be the first discovered one on Avalon.

[Shade]

Hilarious! If I am paid, mate, they sure aint' paying me enough to put up with crap like that!
Welcome to my ignore list. Have a nice stay.

[AlexanderLight]

You haven't been interested to read my article or any of the information shared by me as evidence contradicting your claims. Your sole interest was to discredit Sitchin and the possibility that the pyramids could have built by anyone else other than the Egyptians, 5,000 years ago. Again, that is the official version and we are all familiar with it.

You have also been disrespectful by mocking my work and calling my intervention as "crap". That was evidence, not "crap" and you did not had to put up with it -- you could have just refrain from spamming the thread with something that was not your opinion, especially if you were not willing to back it up or continue the conversation.

At this point, your intervention can be summarized as: "Here is the history book and the opinions of those supporting it. Now read them, accept them, and close this thread because it's all crap".

[panopticon]

The problem with some of you guys is that you don't want to RESEARCH anything yourselves, which leads to a lot of confusion. Instead, you copy-paste texts from other people and you want me to analyze everything and prove you otherwise. I'm not trying to convince anyone, of anything, but it is very unfortunate that you call yourselves awaken, while you fall for the DECEPTION of the ruling elite.


G'day AL,

I've got no problem with you putting forward your position and only stopped by this thread 'cause it looked interesting and seemed to have original research.

I don't often copy paste information into a thread but sometimes I use quotes from others to back up what I'm saying. That is just good practice as far as I'm concerned. I usually supply references for what I say but have no problem when others state opinions without evidence (I don't place the same requirements on others that I place on myself).

In relation to your Ark story that you've linked to in your post.

It makes use of the work of Ron Wyatt as its basis and his work I am very familiar with. I have no problem in you believing this fantasy but when you state his work as fact, you are misrepresenting the source as a valid one. Ron Wyatt is not a valid source for anything. He has been shown to have been deluded and had people who worked closely with him state this. Some of these people are 7th Day Adventists, as he was, and worked on site with him (take this account (http://www.ldolphin.org/wyatt1.html) by SDA Bernard Brandstater who assisted Wyatt in Jerusalem at the Garden Tomb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_Tomb) site).

The formation referred to as the 'Durupinar site' (after the Turkish Army Captain who photographed the site and was part of a 1960 excursion) is located in Turkey and is a natural formation. To be clear I shall repeat that. The formation is a natural formation. It is one of a number of similar formations that are in the area and is caused by the geology/climatic conditions in the region. For more information on this geology please refer to the study here (http://noahsarksearch.com/AvciMurat/TelcekerEarthFlow.pdf).

The reason that this formation was picked as the Noah's Ark was because it was of the proportions as written about in the Torah. All the claims made by Wyatt were either fabricated, misrepresentations or exaggerations. There are a large number of people who believe these as being true and I have no problem with them believing whatever they want to. I personally don't give a rats arse what people believe. I just don't like the way this particular myth is represented as being proof of something that probably didn't happened (at least there is no evidence of it happening at the time depicted) and from this to justify a number of religions (the Abrahamic faiths) that I personally believe have helped confine humanities growth for two millennia.

I have very little knowledge of Sitchin's work and as such have not tried to discredit anything to do with it. I don't go out of my way to make claims about things I don't know about or haven't researched at some depth (I simply don't have time to learn Sumerian so as to be able to talk with authority on the subject one way or the other). That having been said, when someone makes a claim the burden of proof lies with them to prove their claim, not for someone else to disprove it. The more extraordinary the claim, the more compelling the evidence required to support it.

I also would ask you for the process used and data from that process that led to the claim that the site in South Africa is 200,000 years old. I have no problem with this claim, I am just after the process, and data from this process, that led you to believe this to be true.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[Shade]

Michael's original site about Adam's Calendar I cannot find, and it looks to have been taken down, but this site looks similar to what was there about the dating of the site:
http://www.viewzone2.com/adamscalendar22.html

This site http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/africaadamscalendar.htm says this:

Dating The Site:

These widely varying estimates all come from the same source: Michael Tellinger.

'The first rough calculation was from at least 25,000 years ago. But new and more precise measurements kept increasing the age'...

The next calculation was presented by a 'master archaeoastronomer' (Bill Hollenbach?(8)) who unsurprisingly, wishes to remain anonymous for 'fear of ridicule by the academic fraternity'. The calculation was apparently based on the rise of Orion and suggested an age of at least 75,000 years. (2)

A further calculation in June 2009, suggested an age of at least 160,000 years, based on the rise of Orion 'flat on the horizon' but also on the 'erosion of dolerite stones' found at the site. Some pieces of the marker stones had been broken off and sat on the ground, exposed to natural erosion. When the pieces were put back together about 3 cm of stone had already been worn away. These calculation helped assess the age of the site by calculating the erosion rate of the dolerite. (2)

'Our research has shown that the ancient ruins of South Africa and Zimbabwe go back to around 260,000 years the very first appearance of humans on Earth'. (3)

At present (2011), the site has not undergone any official dating procedures.
---------------------
And the link I posted earlier http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/articles/txsa_4_adams.htm, Andrew Collins says this:


Three and a Half Degree Misalignment

As evidence for his early dating of Adam's calendar, Michael cites the fact that its north-south alignment is kinked by three and half degrees. This he believes is the result of a crustal displacement, a slippage of the earth's crust over the mantle caused by some catastrophic event sometime after its construction. Similar ideas were voiced in connection with sites worldwide by Colin Wilson and Rand Flem-ath in their book The Atlantis Blueprint (2000), based on the original concept of crustal displacement proposed by American college professor and author Charles H. Hapgood.

I think the problem here is that there is no hard evidence that, firstly, a crustal displacement has taken place in the last 200,000 years, and, secondly, that Adam's Calendar even bears an alignment three and a half degrees west of north (the recumbent stones on the southern side are just too jumbled and confusing to determine a true alignment.

Rodney Hale's plan of Adam's Calendar with alignments for the suggested date of 11,500 BC. This date is based on the claim that recumbent stones mark Orion's belt when rising horizontally, providing a date of 75,000 for the site's construction. In our current precessional cycle - which is all we can measure such a claim by - this last occurred in 11,500 BC. However, as you can see, such an alignment doesn't work. It hits no stones lying on the edge of the circle. Moreover, as you can see, a 3 degree 30 minute misalignment from north is not necessary to express the structure's curvilinear geometry. It all depends on your position in relation to the placement of the stones. The Horus or Bird Stone as Michael Tellinger calls it is just below east, pointing away from the centre of the circle.

I can categorically say that I have seen nothing that might convince me that Adam's Calendar was constructed beyond the currently held time-frame of megalithic construction, which began with Gobekli Tepe and the other Pre-Pottery Neolithic structures of SE Turkey and North Syria c. 10,000-9000 BC. Moreover, there is no argument that might be used to argue that any proposed alignment towards the belt stars of Orion only makes sense if the site was constructed 75,000 years ago. No calculations can be used to prove such an idea, not precession (a 26,000 year cycle), obliquity of the ecliptic (a 41,000 year cycle), or even much longer Milankovitch cycles, which only affect climate and not the earth's astronomical position against the local horizon.

It is a subject I tackled back in 2010 after meeting Michael Tellinger for the first time. I worked with technical engineer Rodney Hale in an attempt to check out Adam's Calendar stated alignments, and found no evidence whatsoever to suggest that the monument went back 75,000 years (available to anyone on request).

[panopticon]

G'day Shade,

Thanks for the information.

You seem to know a bit about this so how does the South African site/s compare to the many Australian Aboriginal ones (for example Wurdi Youang (http://www.atnf.csiro.au/research/AboriginalAstronomy/Examples/WurdiYouang.htm))? The way in which the various structures interact at the African site seem to resemble the patterns used by Aboriginals in the design and art of some sacred sites. The way in which patterns were/are used by Aboriginal Australians as a means of communication and story telling is something I've had an interest in for quite a while and couldn't help notice the similarities straight away.

http://www.aboriginalartonline.com/culture/cimages/iconography.gifhttp://www.aboriginalartonline.com/art/aimages/sandpaint.jpg

Sorry AlexanderLight, I don't want to take this thread in another direction so I'll just quickly post some references for those who might be interested in Aboriginal rock formation and astronomy:
"Bridging the Gap" through Australian Cultural Astronomy (http://arxiv.org/pdf/1103.1928v1.pdf)
Wurdi Youang: an Australian Aboriginal stone arrangement with possible solar indications (http://arxiv.org/pdf/1210.7000v1.pdf)
Aboriginal stone structures in southwestern Victoria (http://www.dpcd.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/35637/Aboriginal_stone_structures.pdf)

And finally there's Mungo Man and the 35,000 year old stone axe...
First Humans in Australia Dated to 50,000 Years Ago (http://news.nationalgeographic.com.au/news/2003/02/0224_030224_mungoman.html)
35,000-year-old stone axe found in Australia (http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/journal/35000-year-old-stone-axe-found-in-arnhem-land-australia.htm)

Now...
:focus:
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[Shade]

Panopticon - it makes sense that there would be a strong connection and likeness to the Aboriginal sites because culturally the Australian Aboriginals are the most like what we were culturally when we left Africa than any other people in the World - Except those still in Africa of course. They basically moved to Australia pretty quickly and there wasn't much exchange between them and the rest of the world til' the late 18th century. So cultural and symbolic heritage would no doubt have been carried through.
--------
AlexanderLight -



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgvqZixAzm4&list=UUrTm4P9ST0Fo626B0OkhiTg&index=17

I find Lloyd Pye to be incredibly ignorant of scientific actuality. He either doesn't understand what science is showing us or he deliberately misrepresents it - I'm not sure which. For example the conjecture that Homo sapiens just magically appeared at 200,000 years ago and before that their brains were no more complex than a chimp. He somehow completely fails to show that Homo sapiens evolved from Homo heidelbergensis, which evolved from Homo erectus, which evolved from Homo ergaster (these last two are sometimes called the same species), which evolved from Homo habilis, which evolved from Australopithecus (genus) then Ardipithecus (genus) then something like Sahelanthropus. The brain cubic centimetre size gradually increases in this period of some 7 god damn million years. And not just that but you can see in brain casts the complexity of the inner brain geography becoming more complex over that same time as well. And it IS NOT SUDDEN as Pye likes to claim. Have a look below at the slow increase in brain capacity over time. And this increase is mirrored in skull anatomy, in things like the slow increase in the heightening of the dome of the skull... it's all there in the fossils. There is a list here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution_fossils

These species detailed below gave rise to new ones like the branching of a tree. They continue to live as the progenitor species even while the new one has branched off.

[this is just a sampling of the members on this tree there are heaps more please look here for details http://www.becominghuman.org/node/human-lineage-through-time The exact progression is still speculated about as to who the exact ancestors were in the main trunk leading to Homo sapiens and which branches-species were just dead ends] Also it is to note that Homo neanderthalensis is not a direct ancestor of ours. We both have a common ancestor in Homo heidelbergensis, just as we didn't evolve from chimps - we share a common ancestor with chimps.

To note when considering below: Species are arbitrary classifications we give to things that look roughly the same. Throughout a species lifetime it can change quite a bit before scientists decide there is enough difference to call them a separate species.
cc = cubic centimeters.

Sahelanthropus tchadensis brain capacity 360cc lived app 7 million years ago.
http://www.becominghuman.org/node/sahelanthropus-tchadensis-essay
(http://www.becominghuman.org/node/sahelanthropus-tchadensis-essay)
Australopithecus afarensis brain capacity 380-550cc lived 3.9 -3.0 million years ago.
http://www.becominghuman.org/node/australopithecus-afarensis-essay

Homo habilis: brain capacity 510 -560cc lived 2.3 - 1.4 million years ago.

Homo ergaster: brain capacity 700 - 850cc lived 1.9 - 1.4 million years ago.

Homo erectus: brain capacity 850 - 1100 cc lived 1.8 - 0.2 million years ago.

Homo heidelbergensis (Homo rhodesiensis) (most will call the latter the former species, as the latter is not all out accepted to be different enough from the former to warrant it) brain capacity 1100 - 1400 cc lived 600,000 - 120,000 years ago.

Homo sapiens: brain capacity 1000 - 1980 cc lived 200,000 to present.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo

If you want to believe in ET intervention you can't say it is because of the lame reasons Pye gives like 'Science can't explain blah blah blah', and there are 'missing links' and humans just appeared like magic with a big brain from nowhere - NO... they didn't. There ARE NO missing links.. and Pye does either not understand science or deliberately misrepresents it to suit his agenda. Intervention in truth has NO evidence for it - only speculation from people like Pye who have no idea what they are talking about. And yes, I am well versed enough in science, personally, to know what I am talking about here and that Pye totally doesn't.


And how can chromosomes fuse naturally? get split up naturally? Become eliminated totally naturally? (because obviously if they cannot.. Ancient Aliens did it)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_organisms_by_chromosome_count
have a look at this chart.
A fern has 1440 chromosomes.
A pigeon has 80
A horse has 64
It goes on. In other words if chromosomes can't change number naturally in evolution, like they did in the hominin line, and ETs did it because Pye claims that is the most parsimonious explanation, then ET intervention has manually created every single species there has ever been, manually.. in a lab... by genetic alteration... because presumably that is the simplest explanation.
I am going to venture that the most parsimonious explanation by way of Occam's razor is that Pye is full of crap.

In another video of his I watched* he says that science tries to portray Australopithecus as fully bipedal because science can't understand or explain the sudden transition from them to Homo genus, so therefore we push their shoulders up and pretend their arms are shorter (no joke this is what he says, as if we have no measuring equipment or something and we measure purely by oh if we move the shoulder up it's only as long as 'mid thigh' yeah because we haven't got thousands of expert papers cross examined extensively being produced on the subject, that we could just get away with pretending that the arm is not as long as it IS)????? This guy seriously has no idea what's going on in the scientific world. No.. we. don't portray them as such. Science knows them as brachiating and partially bipedal, and we can see this by their skeleton - long arms and curved fingers for example. They were only partially bipedal. Only when we got to the Homo habilis/ Homo ergaster point and we had mastered fire could we then choose to sleep on the ground UNDER the trees as opposed to sleeping IN them to keep away from being eaten by big cats at night time. Once we had fire, we got out of the trees which we were using for protection and our physiology mirrored this - the arms shrank, legs elongated, fingers and toes straightened - and all this was at the 2 mill mark mind you.

You can also see in the mastery of fire other changes in physiology like the reduction in the rib cage because the length of our intestines could shrink now that cooking had increased the surface area of our food, and therefore we could decrease the surface area of our gut. Better hunting too, helped with this, because of higher caloric and nutritional value. This in turn supported a bigger brain, which in turn made us better at hunting which supported our brain etc. Then SLOWLY over the next 1.8 million years our brain volume increased, bit by bit and the fossil record shows this. When you next see a Pye presentation ask yourself why he never mentions Homo heidelbergensis.

And as for error that we carry in our genes as Lloyd talks about in this video, but gives no examples of, yeah we have things in us which 'aren't so cool' mostly because of the expense or side effect of things other things that are very beneficial - like a bigger brain. Mental illness is a side effect of having a bigger brain. Double edged swords they are. So why do we have so many harmful things in our genome? 1. because the beneficial things they come unavoidably attached to are more beneficial than the harmful ones are deleterious and 2. We now put signs up at cliff edges warning the idiots to watch out for the edge. Why? because stupidity now has a helping hand. And muchly we can observe this on the internets in videos like Lloyd's.

Bottle necks? Completely plausible. Genetic clean sweeps? Yep, logical even. There was one about 1.2 million years ago which was for a dark skin gene. The skin of apes and chimps (and in extension the hominins (hominin means a hominid - which is a member of the great ape family - that walks upright) which had previously had hair) and such is actually white underneath the fur, not black as is assumed. After we lost our body hair those without melanin protection from UV died pretty quickly from skin cancer in the hot African sun. This particular gene selected very quickly because those who didn't have it died and could not reproduce.

Another example - the genes which protected against Kuru - this one protects against a disease humans get from eating human brains. It's a form of human mad cow disease that firstly spontaneously arises in a person (one in a million get this), then if you eat the brains of that person you get it.. then if that infected person dies those who eat the brains also get it. There is a particular allele which gives protection from the disease in a heterozygous state meaning that you have to have ONE copy of the gene out of two (you have one form of this particular allele and one of another).. you can survive to ~30 and have kids. If you have 2 or 0 copies of that version of the allele then you die at ~10. 75% of the population have this allele (heterozygous carriers have made it that people are still born with no copies, meaning that 100% population saturation is not achieved). The Japanese lost theirs by genetic drift after splitting off the main population, and because it is so necessary to survival they evolved their own different one, because you know - humans just like eating brains so much. Also, as we moved into higher latitudes, those who had TOO much melanin in their skin died of rickets - vitamin D deficiency... it's a huge population downer. A clean sweep of melanin free skin was mandatory for survival in those populations.

Not just population bottlenecks but disease, migration and other huge stresses like environmental disasters can force genetic clean sweeps and intense evolution or selection as it is known. And why did we lose our hair? Thermoregulation because we were chasing down BACON and sexual selection because ectoparasites are gross (and unhealthy and clothes are better and can be removed along with parasites) and hairless girls look better in bikinis. Hairless girls look better without bikinis too.

What I want is alternative theory that is based in good science. In good logic and argument and not complete bollocks. I am after theory that doesn't pander to fantasy or delusion. For the most part, that's an uphill battle because not only do people not know how to tell if something's right or not - because not everyone's an expert of certain areas of specialty, but you have people like Lloyd going around with just enough knowledge to look impressive and not nearly enough to actually know what they are talking about.

Lloyd Pye is also a huge Sitchin fan and promotes him in his work. And once again I will say that consistently I see that those who support Sitchin's theories overall have poor logic, poor science, irrational beliefs and illogical progressions, poor arguments and are tangibly delusional. That's how I see it and that theory has been supported consistently in my experience. Not in the least by that the OP thinks I'm a paid operative here to discredit this 'important thread' because apparently, it's a matter of global security. As if ASIO can afford me LOL.

* This movie was 'everything you know is wrong' I think and I will go and watch it again at a later date and totally pick it apart and debunk it in detail.

[AlexanderLight]

Thank you guys, now we are finally having a constructive conversation -- which was my initial goal.

@panopticon, You should read the article (http://humansarefree.com/2011/01/noahs-ark-found-in-turkey-bible.html) and see what evidence it brings to support the discovery. To me, it doesn't really matter who discovered this site, but it only makes sense that it would be a religious group, rather than a scientific team of explorers. While the first ones try to prove the bible is right, the others try to disprove the stories as pure fantasy.

But the evidence is solid, not fantasy. I will present some of it:
"In 1977 Ron Wyatt visited the site. Obtaining official permission, Ron and others conducted more thorough research over a period of several years. They used metal detection surveys, subsurface radar scans, and chemical analysis -- real science -- and their findings were startling. The evidence was undeniable."

"The human eye needs to see reflected light to recognize an object. To visualize what remains below the earth, scientists use microwaves which can penetrate the ground and bounce back when they hit something solid. This technique is commonly used to locate oil and other minerals. Called Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR), the apparatus us made from an antenna that transmits, then listens to receive the "echo" and prints the result on a piece of paper. The delay and strength of this echo tell the geologists how solid and at what depth the objects are under the earth."

""This data does not represent natural geology. These are man made structures. These reflections are appearing too periodic... too periodic to be random in that type of natural pace."
- Ron Wyatt of SIR Imaging team.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_u3D7kCdnYZs/TUaC13RWgGI/AAAAAAAAAqU/an36CBsXE7c/s1600/z07.jpg
"The radar cans revealed this structure [above] under the mud. The symmetry and logical placement of these objects shows that this is unmistakably a man made structure."

And here are some of the archaeological artifacts extracted from the ground of the site:
"Perhaps the most significant find from the Ark itself is a piece of petrified wood. When this was first found it appeared to be a large beam. But upon closer examination it is actually three pieces of plank that have been laminated together with some kind of organic glue! This is the same technology used in modern plywood. Lamination makes the total strength of the wood much greater than the combined strength of the pieces. This suggests knowledge of construction far beyond anything we knew existed in the ancient world."
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_u3D7kCdnYZs/TUaDnOAGmII/AAAAAAAAAqc/SIYsC4fa584/s1600/z09.jpg
"Examination reveals the glue oozed from the layers. The outside of the wood appears to have been coated with bitumen. Even more surprising were laboratory analyses which not only revealed that the petrified wood contained carbon (proving it was once wood) but there were iron nails [above right] embedded in the wood!"

At this point, the artifacts are strongly related to Sitchin's translation of the less known Sumerian tablets that he named "The lost book of Enki". More information in my opening post of this thread.

More astounding discoveries:
"The most surprising find was discovered with sensitive metal detectors. The team located several strong "hits" that, when dug up, revealed large disc shaped rivets. From simple observation of the metal it was possible to see where the rivet had been hammered after being inserted through a hole ."
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_u3D7kCdnYZs/TUaEi_g1HkI/AAAAAAAAAqk/1NcHbrBbzc0/s1600/z10+noah.rivets.jpg
"An analysis of the metal used to make the rivets revealed that they were a combination of iron (8.38%), aluminum (8.35%) and titanium (1.59%). Remember these trace metals have survived petrification and so do not indicate the exact content in the original material. (see Report from Galbraith Labs)."

"We know the aluminum was incorporated in the metallic mixture because it does not exist in metallic form in nature. This implies an extremely advanced knowledge of metallurgy and engineering. Characteristics of an iron-aluminum alloy have been investigated in The Russian Chemical Bulletin (2005) and reveal that this alloy forms a thin film of aluminum oxide which protects the material from rust and corrosion. The addition of titanium would provide added strength. This seems to have worked. The rivets have survived from antiquity!"

Personally, I don't know if this is THE Ark, but there is strong evidence that it might. It has the exact measures as described in the Bible and it is located where the Sumerian tablets place it in the time of the Deluge. As the video shared by Shade suggested, both the Sumerian and the biblical stories are inspired by pre-Sumerian stories or texts. But this is impossible, according to our main stream historians, because the Sumerians (6,000 years ago) were the first civilized men. Who could have had such advanced technology (e.g. advanced metallurgy, coating wood with bitumen for impermeability) tens of thousands of years ago?

@Shade, I totally agree with your last post. It is very challenging to accurately date an ancient site, like Adam's Calendar, but we are - not only entitled - but compelled by history to try. It is not uncommon for archaeologists and historians to disagree on the age of a site, but it is an immense injustice to promote someone's opinion, while totally ignoring evidence brought forward by others.

It is frustrating for many archaeologists and historians for an official institution to have the right to ignore all their evidence and ridicule their work, while promoting the theories of their own historians as irrefutable facts (some times without evidence!). This is how the terms [B]forbidden archaeology and forbidden history originated. This opens widely the door for corruption!

Regarding Adam's Calendar, there is nothing wrong with readjusting your previous calculations regarding its age. Especially because they are based on speculations. In my opinion, to speculate that the three monoliths are aligned to Orion's Belt it is highly plausible, because we must remember the "obsession" of all ancient major civilizations with Orion's Belt and the Pleiades. Their spoken and written history tells the stories of extraterrestrial "gods" who arrived on Earth from these constellations and created mankind.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_u3D7kCdnYZs/TTQ3nZ2OxsI/AAAAAAAAAi8/tAu1HacPk1I/s1600/ZZZ+orion.jpg

I agree that is not easily provable that "a crustal displacement has taken place in the last 200,000 years", but the Pangea Theory (http://library.thinkquest.org/17701/high/pangaea/) states that Earth's surface is in constant motion, so this crustal displacement is in fact possible.

The suggested age of 160,000 years old is based not only on its alignment to Orion's Belt, but also but also on the erosion of dolerite stones found at the site.

"Some pieces of the marker stones had been broken off and sat on the ground, exposed to natural erosion. When the pieces were put back together about 3 cm of stone had already been worn away. These calculation helped assess the age of the site by calculating the erosion rate of the dolerite."

More importantly, Adam's Calendar is located on the African continent, where the Oldest Metropolis on Earth (http://humansarefree.com/2011/01/oldest-metropolis-on-earth-was-built-by.html) was discovered.

"It measures, in conservative estimates, about 1,500 square miles. It's part of an even larger community that is about 10,000 square miles and appears to have been constructed from 160,000 to 200,000 BCE!" Again, the date may be controversial for the MS archaeology and history, but nobody can contest that the metropolis was built around thousands of ancient gold mines. Even the official version suggests that gold mining could be at least 7,000 years old. This means that a pre-Sumerian civilization knew what gold is, where to find it, how to build mines and how to extract it and, finally, how to refine it? It's beyond absurd! How could humans be gold miners before the bronze age?

But even if this would have been possible, the question is WHY? Why would they put so much effort (mining is exhausting and hazardous) to extract and refine this metal? Gold is too soft to be used for tools. It doesn't have any logic!

@panopticon, I am very pleased to read about your interest in the first Australian civilization, because they have the same Creation story as most major civilizations on Earth, they also speak of serpent gods who came to Earth and created mankind.

"Near the city of Cooktown (16 miles South), Australia, resides the Black Mountain. A huge formation of stacked up black granite boulders. Who stuck them together and for what purpose? The Kuku Nyungkal people are the descendants of the first local tribes of Australia. Their stories are amazing, speaking of lizard-like creatures who used to live there. They are the Creators of their ancestors and refer to them as 'Demons'.

The most plausible explanation regarding why did the reptilian ETs stacked the gigantic rocks together, is that they were trying to cover something up, to erase their tracks. But what were they trying to cover? In 1872 an expedition found massive quantities of gold in a nearby river. Within 20 years, 55 tons of gold have been removed."

For more information and, IMO, some very interesting connections, you can read my complete article (http://humansarefree.com/2011/10/reptilian-creator-gods-in-australia.html).

[panopticon]

G'day Shade,

I am not as well versed in genetics as you.

I have done a bit of research into the chromosome 2 fusion (I mentioned a while ago here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?45635-Excavating-The-Empty-Tomb-The-Gospels-based-on-Homer-s-Odyssey&p=506340&viewfull=1#post506340)) and was fascinated that this also occurred in Neanderthal's (as documented here (http://www.eva.mpg.de/neandertal/) and here (http://neandertal.ensemblgenomes.org/index.html)).

I don't see the need for the fusion to have been deliberate and do understand the way in which this can occur naturally. That having been said, it is also possible that this is the result of manipulation. I actually don't care either way on this as I have no deep seated need for either hypothesis (in the scientific sense) to be correct. There are plenty of examples in nature of genetic abnormalities occurring that result in modifications of a species. Again, it's all hypothesis as there is no way of being certain either way.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[AlexanderLight]

Lloyd Pye is not the only one who considers our evolution from a very primitive species to Homo Sapiens Sapiens to be sudden. Actually, the main stream scientific community is of the same opinion, hence they have put together the so called Population Bottleneck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_bottleneck) theory. I am not a scientist and I do not have a PhD in genetics, but IMO this is the most erroneous theory I have ever read and deeply offends my intelligence. This is not even an assumption, it is a desperate attempt to explain something that cannot be explained without outside DNA manipulation. And, in my opinion, doesn't have a single piece of evidence supporting in.

According to the WWF Global (http://wwf.panda.org/about_our_earth/biodiversity/biodiversity/), there are at least 10,000 species that go extinct every single year, and we haven't witnessed once a phenomenon close to the Population Bottleneck theory. It is simply a fabricated theory, without any kind of evidence to support it, other than the Northern Elephant Seal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_elephant_seal#History_and_status). These creatures were thought to be extinct and it is only logical that because they were thought to be extinct, the hunters stopped searching for them. Giving the fact that their only natural enemies are the orcas and the largest species of sharks, we can presume that the few remaining members managed to survive until the Mexican government finally protected them in 1922, and the US strengthened their protection in 1972. After 90 years of protection by law, they now recovered to 100,000. Not even close to a conclusive example of a bottleneck evolution!

Back to Mr. Lloyd Pye, you may be interested to know that the skull known as the "Starchild" was DNA tested and proved non-human:

"Realizing the ultimate answer could come only from genetic testing, in 2003 the Starchild Project commissioned a DNA analysis of the Starchild Skull’s bone by Trace Genetics of Davis, California. (Trace Genetics was acquired by DNA Print Genomics in 2005.) Its owners and principal geneticists were Dr. Ripan Malhi and Dr. Jason Eshleman, specialists in the recovery of ancient DNA, meaning DNA from samples more than 50 years old. Dr. Malhi and Dr. Eshleman had previously worked on the high profile 5,000 to 9,000 + year old Kennewick Man skeleton found in Washington State in 1996."
http://www.starchildproject.com/images/dna2011ripanjason.jpg

"In any comparison of DNA samples between the human CRS and an “unknown” species (which technically categorizes the Starchild), even a few variations between them in a short stretch of highly conserved nucleotides strongly indicates that the entire mtDNA genome of that species would contain many more than the 120 ± carried by the human haplotypes.

Such a difference, which is not hypothetical but actually exists within the Starchild Skull, is by itself sufficient reason to suspect a new species has been identified! Clearly such an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence, but the preliminary results achieved so far with the Starchild DNA are immensely encouraging, to the point of near certainty."

Read the complete article here (http://www.starchildproject.com/dna2011march.htm).

[panopticon]

Thank you guys, now we are finally having a constructive conversation -- which was my initial goal.

@panopticon, You should read the article (http://humansarefree.com/2011/01/noahs-ark-found-in-turkey-bible.html) and see what evidence it brings to support the discovery. To me, it doesn't really matter who discovered this site, but it only makes sense that it would be a religious group, rather than a scientific team of explorers. While the first ones try to prove the bible is right, the others try to disprove the stories as pure fantasy.


I did read the article and it is entirely based on Wyatt's work.

Wyatt claimed he found many things and the "Ark" is only one of them.

Some of the other discoveries he claimed to have made:

The Ark Of the Covenant.
The original stone 10 commandments (with gold binders).
The burial site of Mr & Mrs Noah (with name plate & treasure).
The 12 altars built by Moses.
The real Mt. Sinai (Jabal Al Lawz).
Chariot parts from Pharoah's army in the Red Sea (oh and the crossing point).
The true site of the crucifixion and the DNA of Jesus.

Yes there are more.
No, he never provided evidence, but always asked for donations and gave many talks to the faithful.

The evidence you have presented is his evidence.
His evidence has little, if any, scientific backing.

The people who he quoted as agreeing with his perspective have almost unanimously said he was lying.
The scientific evidence from a number of sources regards the site shows that it is one of a number of similar shaped formations in that area caused by the natural geology/climatic conditions.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=19662&d=1355788172



But the evidence is solid, not fantasy. I will present some of it:
"In 1977 Ron Wyatt visited the site. Obtaining official permission, Ron and others conducted more thorough research over a period of several years. They used metal detection surveys, subsurface radar scans, and chemical analysis -- real science -- and their findings were startling. The evidence was undeniable."


Alright, let's look at them then.

Yes he visited the site in 1977 and on quite a few occasions following this.
His was not the first group who went there.

In 1960 Dr. Brandenberger went to the site and his groups findings were inconclusive.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=19667&d=1355839447

In relation to the scientific investigations...
The metal detection/subsurface radar scans and chemical analysis were all misrepresented as proof.

They were nothing of the kind.

Dr John Baumgardner originally said that there may have been something there but later stated that this was not the case and that it was a natural formation.



"The human eye needs to see reflected light to recognize an object. To visualize what remains below the earth, scientists use microwaves which can penetrate the ground and bounce back when they hit something solid. This technique is commonly used to locate oil and other minerals. Called Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR), the apparatus us made from an antenna that transmits, then listens to receive the "echo" and prints the result on a piece of paper. The delay and strength of this echo tell the geologists how solid and at what depth the objects are under the earth."

""This data does not represent natural geology. These are man made structures. These reflections are appearing too periodic... too periodic to be random in that type of natural pace."
- Ron Wyatt of SIR Imaging team.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_u3D7kCdnYZs/TUaC13RWgGI/AAAAAAAAAqU/an36CBsXE7c/s1600/z07.jpg
"The radar cans revealed this structure [above] under the mud. The symmetry and logical placement of these objects shows that this is unmistakably a man made structure."


This was not the case.
The results did not indicate that.

They indicated a reflection from in all likelihood solid rock (ie bed rock). To the untrained eye they look like a structure but that is not what they actually represent. Not to mention that a full scan was never done by Wyatt and the one shown is of a small section done hurriedly. Later scans never showed any evidence of this whatsoever. When a core was drilled in the mud around the "Ark" at a later date it had plastic in it. This showed that the surrounding mud moved quite quickly in winter freeze/summer thaw cycles and that is what had assisted in creating the formation.



And here are some of the archaeological artifacts extracted from the ground of the site:
"Perhaps the most significant find from the Ark itself is a piece of petrified wood. When this was first found it appeared to be a large beam. But upon closer examination it is actually three pieces of plank that have been laminated together with some kind of organic glue! This is the same technology used in modern plywood. Lamination makes the total strength of the wood much greater than the combined strength of the pieces. This suggests knowledge of construction far beyond anything we knew existed in the ancient world."
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_u3D7kCdnYZs/TUaDnOAGmII/AAAAAAAAAqc/SIYsC4fa584/s1600/z09.jpg
"Examination reveals the glue oozed from the layers. The outside of the wood appears to have been coated with bitumen. Even more surprising were laboratory analyses which not only revealed that the petrified wood contained carbon (proving it was once wood) but there were iron nails [above right] embedded in the wood!"


This is also a misrepresentation.
At no time was petrified wood ever discovered on the site.

This was mentioned by a number of people who worked the site both with Wyatt and without him.
He claimed that there were "trainloads and boatloads of petrified wood" there.
There wasn't. If there had been then Dr. Brandenberger's 1960 expedition would have found it.

This was all part of his (self) delusion.

A link I provided in my previous response regards Bernard Brandstater's statement (http://www.ldolphin.org/wyatt1.html) to Wyatt's mental state is quite revealing.

I have researched this in quite a bit of detail and there has been no evidence that petrified wood was ever discovered on site. There was a small fragment of semi-petrified wood found there but that is all. In regards to the lamination, this was never tested and when it was requested that tests be done on the sample that Wyatt had he refused. As for the testing done by Galbraith Laboratories, they tested for Iron, Calcium and Carbon. There was no opinion asked as to whether it was petrified nor have I found any evidence that Carbon dating was done.



At this point, the artifacts are strongly related to Sitchin's translation of the less known Sumerian tablets that he named "The lost book of Enki". More information in my opening post of this thread.

More astounding discoveries:
"The most surprising find was discovered with sensitive metal detectors. The team located several strong "hits" that, when dug up, revealed large disc shaped rivets. From simple observation of the metal it was possible to see where the rivet had been hammered after being inserted through a hole [below]."
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_u3D7kCdnYZs/TUaEi_g1HkI/AAAAAAAAAqk/1NcHbrBbzc0/s1600/z10+noah.rivets.jpg
"An analysis of the metal used to make the rivets revealed that they were a combination of iron (8.38%), aluminum (8.35%) and titanium (1.59%). Remember these trace metals have survived petrification and so do not indicate the exact content in the original material. (see Report from Galbraith Labs)."

"We know the aluminum was incorporated in the metallic mixture because it does not exist in metallic form in nature. This implies an extremely advanced knowledge of metallurgy and engineering. Characteristics of an iron-aluminum alloy have been investigated in The Russian Chemical Bulletin (2005) and reveal that this alloy forms a thin film of aluminum oxide which protects the material from rust and corrosion. The addition of titanium would provide added strength. This seems to have worked. The rivets have survived from antiquity!"


I was very interested in this and went and read the 2005 paper on aluminium oxides. Yes, interesting paper but nothing to do with the site in question. The assay result from Galbraith regards the sample were found to be normal soil samples for that type of geology (ie basalt). Normal levels of titanium, aluminium, iron etc. As for the "rivets" these are natural formations in this region and nothing special other than Wyatt found them and claimed they were. It's like finding a rock with gold in it and saying it is evidence that Solomon's mine was nearby.



Personally, I don't know if this is THE Ark, but there is strong evidence that it might. It has the exact measures as described in the Bible and it is located where the Sumerian tablets place it in the time of the Deluge. As the video shared by Shade suggested, both the Sumerian and the biblical stories are inspired by pre-Sumerian stories or texts. But this is impossible, according to our main stream historians, because the Sumerians (6,000 years ago) were the first civilized men. Who could have had such advanced technology (e.g. advanced metallurgy, coating wood with bitumen for impermeability) tens of thousands of years ago?


I hope that the brief run down I've given to illustrate that this is not the case might help you change your position on this.

Wyatt's history of fantastic unverified claims is enough to make anyone really check the facts. That's why your repeated claims that Wyatt's "Ark" is the real deal sticks in my throat.

In my opinion he was at best delusional and at worst a conman.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[AlexanderLight]

@panopticon, Thank you for your reply, but I am not convinced. I'm not saying I am right, I am only saying that these arguments are not convincing.


In 1960 Dr. Brandenberger went to the site and his groups findings were inconclusive. The article explains:

"A group of Americans accompanied Capt. Durupinar to the site for a day and a half. They were expecting to find artifacts on the surface or something that would be unquestionably related to a ship of some kind. They did some digging in the area but found nothing conclusive and announced to the anxiously waiting world that it appeared to be a natural formation. (...) Remember that this object, if it is the Ark, is extremely old. The wood has been petrified. Organic matter has been replaced by minerals from the earth. Only the shapes and traces of the original wood remain. Perhaps this is why the expedition in 1960 was disappointed. They anticipated finding and retrieving chucks of wood, long since eroded."

The 1960s expedition lacked any kind of modern equipment, so they only studied the site from ground level. Anyone can understand why the expedition was a fiasco. From ground level there is nothing special to be seen.

Capt. Durupinar was familiar with the biblical accounts of the Ark and its association with Mount Ararat in Turkey, but he was reluctant to jump to any conclusions. The region was very remote, yet it was inhabited with small villages. No previous reports of an object this odd had been made before. So he forwarded the photographic negative to a famous aerial photography expert named Dr. Brandenburger, at Ohio State University.

Brandenburger was responsible for discovering the Cuban missile bases during the Kennedy era from reconnaissance photos, and after carefully studying the photo, he concluded: "I have no doubt at all, that this object is a ship. In my entire career, I have never seen an object like this on a stereo photo."

I don't know if Brandenburger ever retracted the above statement, but if he did, isn't it strange to you?


This is also a misrepresentation.
At no time was petrified wood ever discovered on the site.

There is a picture that shows petrified wood and nails stuck in it.


I was very interested in this and went and read the 2005 paper on aluminium oxides. Yes, interesting paper but nothing to do with the site in question. The assay result from Galbraith regards the sample were found to be normal soil samples for that type of geology (ie basalt). Normal levels of titanium, aluminium, iron etc. As for the "rivets" these are natural formations in this region and nothing special other than Wyatt found them and claimed they were.

That doesn't even look like an ordinary rock, so I cannot accept it as such.

You do realize that the official scientific community will never accept for this to be the so called "Noah's Ark", or any kind of ark from a time frame that does not correspond to their theory of evolution.

[panopticon]

@panopticon, Thank you for your reply, but I am not convinced. I'm not saying I am right, I am only saying that these arguments are not convincing.


In 1960 Dr. Brandenberger went to the site and his groups findings were inconclusive. The article explains:

"A group of Americans accompanied Capt. Durupinar to the site for a day and a half. They were expecting to find artifacts on the surface or something that would be unquestionably related to a ship of some kind. They did some digging in the area but found nothing conclusive and announced to the anxiously waiting world that it appeared to be a natural formation. (...) Remember that this object, if it is the Ark, is extremely old. The wood has been petrified. Organic matter has been replaced by minerals from the earth. Only the shapes and traces of the original wood remain. Perhaps this is why the expedition in 1960 was disappointed. They anticipated finding and retrieving chucks of wood, long since eroded."

The 1960s expedition lacked any kind of modern equipment, so they only studied the site from ground level. Anyone can understand why the expedition was a fiasco. From ground level there is nothing special to be seen.

Capt. Durupinar was familiar with the biblical accounts of the Ark and its association with Mount Ararat in Turkey, but he was reluctant to jump to any conclusions. The region was very remote, yet it was inhabited with small villages. No previous reports of an object this odd had been made before. So he forwarded the photographic negative to a famous aerial photography expert named Dr. Brandenburger, at Ohio State University.

Brandenburger was responsible for discovering the Cuban missile bases during the Kennedy era from reconnaissance photos, and after carefully studying the photo, he concluded: "I have no doubt at all, that this object is a ship. In my entire career, I have never seen an object like this on a stereo photo."

I don't know if Brandenburger ever retracted the above statement, but if he did, isn't it strange to you?


I'm just a bit confused here.
The statement made by Wyatt that there was 'trainloads and boatloads of petrified wood' lying around on the ground at the site is in direct opposition to the above statement. If there were 'trainloads and boatloads of petrified wood' then Brandenburger would have found it. Fairly obvious really.

As for the photo of the site and whether Brandenburger said otherwise later on, I haven't come across anything that said he did. There again most people when they make a public statement like that and then realise it was in error kind of want it to all just be forgotten, so I doubt he would have said anything anyhow.




This is also a misrepresentation.
At no time was petrified wood ever discovered on the site.

There is a picture that shows petrified wood and nails stuck in it.


I was very interested in this and went and read the 2005 paper on aluminium oxides. Yes, interesting paper but nothing to do with the site in question. The assay result from Galbraith regards the sample were found to be normal soil samples for that type of geology (ie basalt). Normal levels of titanium, aluminium, iron etc. As for the "rivets" these are natural formations in this region and nothing special other than Wyatt found them and claimed they were.

That doesn't even look like an ordinary rock, so I cannot accept it as such.


So this is subjective to your interpretation then and no evidence is required.
It has also been alleged, by some of those who worked on-site with him, that Wyatt planted evidence before tourists came to the "Ark" site so as to have "impartial" witnesses (helped when he was after donations, selling videos and looking for places to give talks). There is a well known case where he found a piece of petrified wood while in the presence of the Governor of Agri. Must have been a miracle cause no-one ever found any petrified wood at that site (BTW I think this was the bit of wood tested @ Galbraith)...
To the best of my knowledge the "nails" you refer to were never tested in a lab.



You do realize that the official scientific community will never accept for this to be the so called "Noah's Ark", or any kind of ark from a time frame that does not correspond to their theory of evolution.

Just to be clear many of my resources are from "creationist" scientists.
They do not believe in the Theory of Evolution.

This does not negate their scientific integrity just made them investigate the claims made by Wyatt and found them to be false. (For an excellent overview of the many investigations into this case please see this article (http://creation.com/special-report-amazing-ark-expose)).

Why do I use creationist scientists if I am a non-theist?
Because most of the research has been done by them and (until I came across this thread) the only time anyone ever claimed that Wyatt was legitimate was when they were fundamentalists (I have assisted a few people who were part of extreme fundamentalist christian organisations reintegrate into society). While I don't support Creationist beliefs it is virtually impossible to find a mainstream scientist who would take Wyatt's claims seriously. Really, why would they? With his track record there is no reason anyone should.

You seem to need to stubbornly defend your position in regards to Wyatt's "Ark" and I don't really understand why. Have you invested so much in it that you need it to be true? If that is the case then I shall not push the matter any more as I don't wish to cause you or anyone associated with you any problems.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[Shade]

We have shown here by our posts that Wyatt is bullsh*t, Sitchin is bullsh*t, Pye is bullsh*t and the 200,000 year old city 'dated' by Micheal Tellinger is bullsh*t. So what else is there to say? Some people will believe what fantasies they want to believe in, no matter what the evidence to the contrary. Did the Egyptians build the pyramids? They sure did, because they were very talented people. Dreams and reality eh? Where is that line?

Good sense is really what should be used here - and everywhere - to help discern fact from fantasy. And sometimes I just think - maybe you either have it or you don't? People who believe what is plainly bullsh*t... I mean is it a lifelong commitment? Have you even known anyone in that vein to change? Temporary [acute] vs lifelong [chronic] insanity. I'll take the acute anyday. [<---suffered that one myself and I even though it was bad, I am strangely happy that it was that kind].

If it is a form of chronic insanity what is the cure? I mean.. is there even one? tbh I don't think there is. Maybe education could be considered a kind of cure. Yeah ok there are cures. And it also means the majority of the Earth is chronically insane. Sounds about right.

If you have a theory that goes against the grain you have to have a good explanation as to WHY it is so. It cannot BE SHALLOW and based on stuff that is blown away with the wind. The theories proposed on this thread by AlexanderLight? Are backed up by people who are not right. Past the first juncture, they fail. To have deep roots to a theory it has to be stable and deep and backed up by research that actually IS good. By good logic and argument. By sensible premises and conclusions. If it is a purely theoretical claim then the arguments have to be really really good.
Alternative theories have a hard enough time as it is, I think. Frought with dreams by it's very nature. And so let the sleepers sleep.

[gooty64]

Add me too, thanks a bunch!

Hilarious! If I am paid, mate, they sure aint' paying me enough to put up with crap like that!
Welcome to my ignore list. Have a nice stay.

[panopticon]

We have shown here by our posts that Wyatt is bullsh*t, Sitchin is bullsh*t, Pye is bullsh*t and the 200,000 year old city 'dated' by Micheal Tellinger is bullsh*t. So what else is there to say? Some people will believe what fantasies they want to believe in, no matter what the evidence to the contrary. Did the Egyptians build the pyramids? They sure did, because they were very talented people. Dreams and reality eh? Where is that line?

Good sense is really what should be used here - and everywhere - to help discern fact from fantasy. And sometimes I just think - maybe you either have it or you don't? People who believe what is plainly bullsh*t... I mean is it a lifelong commitment? Have you even known anyone in that vein to change? Temporary [acute] vs lifelong [chronic] insanity. I'll take the acute anyday. [<---suffered that one myself and I even though it was bad, I am strangely happy that it was that kind].

If it is a form of chronic insanity what is the cure? I mean.. is there even one? tbh I don't think there is. Maybe education could be considered a kind of cure. Yeah ok there are cures. And it also means the majority of the Earth is chronically insane. Sounds about right.

If you have a theory that goes against the grain you have to have a good explanation as to WHY it is so. It cannot BE SHALLOW and based on stuff that is blown away with the wind. The theories proposed on this thread by AlexanderLight? Are backed up by people who are not right. Past the first juncture, they fail. To have deep roots to a theory it has to be stable and deep and backed up by research that actually IS good. By good logic and argument. By sensible premises and conclusions. If it is a purely theoretical claim then the arguments have to be really really good.
Alternative theories have a hard enough time as it is, I think. Frought with dreams by it's very nature. And so let the sleepers sleep.

G'day Shade,

I don't agree with you on many of your points made in the above post.

While it is all good and fine to have an opinion and present it in a robust manner I am at a loss as to why you would carry on with a rant like that. As a person who seems to know a bit about scientific hypothesis and theory you should understand the need for a measured tone when dealing with sensitive topics. Your "righteous anger" reminds me of the fundamentalists fervour in attacking a non-believer.

I do not care one way or the other if anyone agrees with my position on any given topic. I only talk about things I have some knowledge in and listen to what others have to say. I used to enjoy my conversations with RedeZra regards the Bible, prior to his being unsubscribed, as I learnt quite a bit about early 2nd through 9th Century Christian history. I always endeavour to remain civil in my discussion at Avalon and believe I have largely done so. I feel that it is important for alternate discourses to be heard and only through this can change to society happen as the sub-dominant, or alternate, discourses gain traction within the dominant discourses and alter the accepted norms. It's not brain surgery, just how things happen. As AlexanderLight has pointed out, there are vested interests (for example media outlets, corporations, lobby groups, think tanks) who would control what is permitted to be presented and through this endeavour to control the way discussions are held within society. I could go on about this particular topic for days (literally) as it has been a major area of interest for me...

Anyways...

By necessity I have a broad range of interests and they interconnect in some interesting ways. Take for example earlier in this thread my observations regards the similarity in pattern design between South African site and the various Australian Indigenous cultures. This comes from my research into patterns in Permaculture practices and also my research into layered levels of teaching in Aboriginal cultures (the way a story holds a variety of meanings for the different recipients) in particular the stories of the Pitjantjatjara peoples.

I talk about things because I have an interest in them. I don't go out of my way to attack people who hold different views to my own. Yes, I hold strong views in relation to Wyatt's claims. This comes from trying to help ex-fundamentalists who wish to remove the programming that has been ingrained in them. Wyatt's work is often a key element in their mythology. I don't go out of my way to look for an argument on this, it is just when I saw it the other day I had just finished a conversation with someone who was still coming to terms with certain things... If that hadn't happened I probably would have just looked at it, shook my head, laughed and moved on. As it is I've presented quite a bit of information and will leave it alone now as I hope AlexanderLight will have a look at what I've presented and come to a personal decision as to what is more likely to be truth.

It matters not one iota to me if he believes that the formation is the Ark or not I just didn't think he had all the facts. Now I've presented some of them I feel no need to badger him about it.

It is fine to talk about education as a solution to problems, but it is important to remember that the education system is designed to produce docile workers. That was and is its purpose. Yes it is designed to supply knowledge within certain areas that assist in finding likely vocations but at its core it is a modification of the 19th Century workhouse.

This thread puts forward some interesting hypothesis' and while I may not have agreed with elements of it I have enjoyed the conversation.

Thanks AlexanderLight.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[Shade]

Panopticon.... so? So what? I should understand a 'measured tone' when dealing with 'sensitive topics' because I am a scientist? I deal with things as in individual, not as a jonre. Your way of dealing with your experiences and topics and people you have interacted with are YOURS... but your post here says that my way is wrong and your way is right - that is in effect what you have just said, and yet that is exactly what you have 'told me off for'. Mate - if you had no problem with it (other people's views and opinions) why did you write such a huge reply making it clear why your way is right and mine is wrong?????... And that's exactly what you were saying I was doing incorrectly???? I am a cynic, Panopticon. A cynic and a comic. And I deal with things how I deal with them, including the bullsh*t I argue against. I have nowhere said that people should not be allowed FREE SPEECH. I have made a strong debate because there's nothing wrong with that - that is a mechanic of great change. I have not said that people should not be allowed to spin as much bullsh*t as they like, what I have expressed is my opinion on that bullsh*t.
On Liberty - the liberty of freedom to express opinion is a very important thing. My issue is with ignorance.

[Shade]

Add me too, thanks a bunch!

Hilarious! If I am paid, mate, they sure aint' paying me enough to put up with crap like that!
Welcome to my ignore list. Have a nice stay.

Pardon? Add you too, to my ignore list?

Seriously..
You accused me on another thread of being a paid operative and so now you come in here and say the same thing - that you'd like me to add you to my ignore list (even though you will still see MY posts) because I am an operative?
Firstly don't you realise that if you don't like me you are supposed to add me to YOUR ignore list and secondly - does it not occur to you that you may be incorrect and that the overwhelming likelihood is that you infact ARE (incorrect and I'm just a regular person). If the overwhelming likelihood is that you are incorrect then what the hell are you doing accusing some random person of being paid to disinform?
LOL and people wonder why I'm a cynic!!!!!!
Pushing sh*t uphill is putting it mildly.

[RMorgan]

I´m really impressed about the level of childishness of some people here on Avalon, really.

In fact, what an easy way out of a discussion! Whenever someone has solid arguments against your proposed ideas and you have no counter-arguments of the same level, you go on and say he/she is a shill or payed agent?

Come on...Seriously. We´re not children here, are we?

You´re acting just like a neighbor I used to have when I was a kid. He was the only one who had a really nice professional soccer ball...So, whenever his team was losing the game, he just picked up the ball and went a way...Like this would make him the winner or something like that.

With all due respect, I didn´t expect this kind of behavior from people who consider themselves open-minded. Open-minded, in my opinion, means being open to listen and consider ideas independently if they go against your already established beliefs.

[panopticon]

Panopticon.... so? So what? I should understand a 'measured tone' when dealing with 'sensitive topics' because I am a scientist? I deal with things as in individual, not as a jonre. Your way of dealing with your experiences and topics and people you have interacted with are YOURS... but your post here says that my way is wrong and your way is right - that is in effect what you have just said, and yet that is exactly what you have 'told me off for'. Mate - if you had no problem with it (other people's views and opinions) why did you write such a huge reply making it clear why your way is right and mine is wrong?????... And that's exactly what you were saying I was doing incorrectly???? I am a cynic, Panopticon. A cynic and a comic. And I deal with things how I deal with them, including the bullsh*t I argue against. I have nowhere said that people should not be allowed FREE SPEECH. I have made a strong debate because there's nothing wrong with that - that is a mechanic of great change. I have not said that people should not be allowed to spin as much bullsh*t as they like, what I have expressed is my opinion on that bullsh*t.
On Liberty - the liberty of freedom to express opinion is a very important thing. My issue is with ignorance.

G'day Shade,

Thanks for the response.

I was not intending to tell you to do anything and as a result I apologise unreservedly as you have interpreted my thoughtful response to your rant as that.

I always respect the right of anyone to say what ever they like. Your rant however was an obvious attempt at intimidation. I freely support your right to say whatever you want but that is a two way street. I also support everyone in saying what they like. I personally don't agree with some of AlexanderLight's hypothesis, but I unreservedly support his right to say them in a respectful manner.

In relation to "liberty" that is subjective and open to interpretation in and of itself. Deconstruct the concept and see for yourself.
The same goes for "freedom". They are blanket feel good terms used as control/power mechanisms.

In relation to me having "told you off", I would remind you that the forum guidelines state (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/faq.php?faq=avalonguidelines):


2. RESPECT

Disagreeing with various points or topics is natural, however we do require that our members be treated with respect.

In what way is "screaming" 'bullsh*t' repeatedly respectful? The entire tone of that post I did not find respectful at all.

I really didn't think I needed to point this out. You are a new member and have only just agreed to the guidelines as part of your membership application/acceptance process.

I again apologise if I have caused you any discomfort and wish you well at Avalon.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[Shade]

"Screaming"? That is a purely subjective interpretation of my or anyone's posts - volume is not included in a post. If you interpreted my posts as screaming that is your subjective experience of them 100%. Words on a page do not have volume, that is something you add to a post yourself. And as for deliberate attempt at intimidation? That again is your personal interpretation. What I do is argue, how you interpret that tone or volume really is your subjective experience of it because there are many different ways to read a thing and the way you read it does not make your interpretation of it right.

You have totally and 100% assumed that every single instance of the word bullsh*t must be screamed because that is how the word exists in all its forms? Quite obviously it is not true that the word bullsh*t comes with the necessary condition that it is shouted. Do not confuse strength with volume. They are two different things.

And so you find it once again within your time and effort to write a large post telling me off for my behaviour - which is what you have done again... calling my post the verbally loaded 'rant'.. and yet it's ok for two members of this thread to have falsely accused me of being a paid secret service operative? That's ok though.. oh I see.

And what I would say to you, again, is that how you read my tone is your subjective experience. I know that another poster on this thread does not find my posts disrespectful in tone or measure as certainty, because they told me, and yet they are reading the same posts as you. And I too, know very well the tone I used in writing them and I will tell you now - I am far too mature to 'shout' - you assume to know my tone and you assume to know my volume. That, panopticon is an assumption. "Screaming" "bullsh*t"?? excuse me? And please, pray tell, how exactly did you deduce that my volume was screaming? What proof and argument can you offer other than your complete and utter assumptions?

none. other than your experience of the word bullsh*t and your assumptions of my tone and intent. The tone you read in a post is very much a reflection of how your own mind works, especially highlighted by the fact that other people around you do not read it in the same way and also as the writer I know for a fact that you are mistaken.

And as for respectful - you assuming to know my volume or my tone (which is in your mind not my post) - something you cannot possible know, and then judging me for it - well in my personal opinion that is not respectful or rather what I would say is it is not what I would deem 'correct behaviour', because it is not based on correct things or premises. But you know what? Because I recognise that as a personal interpretation and is subjective, that judgement is nothing to DO with you. What I understand it as is a part of my own methodology - I see your behaviour and methodology as incorrect as in that isn't how I would behave, personally. It is not my place however, to place that judgement upon you. And as for "rant" - my hand is heavy, that is the way I am, and that may not be something you come across every day. I argue powerfully and my roots are deep, and I will say again that shouting is NOT my style. I don't shout - I speak with purpose and I speak with strength. Do not confuse the two. Greater resolution is required than a 'just chuck her in the same category as other people with strong voices', or 'it's a swear word therefore must be screamed'. People are much more rich and varied than that.

I am an opinionated person; i have strong opinions on things. I have always been this way but it is definitely something that is part and parcel of the scientific world, especially in peer review. You have a case and you argue for it. The debating in science and academia in general is heavy going, but, we understand that this is the path to discovering the truth of a thing, or at least its errors. You knock and take your knocks with as good grace as possible but it is known that that's the way to discovery. It's what makes science so powerful. Perhaps this is a case of me having brought my heavy style from the peer review ring into here - but rather than complain that the game has gotten too strong, perhaps see it as an opportunity to lift your game. I could not argue as strongly, but then who would that serve? What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, Nietzsche said. And indeed what criticism is true and hurts and wounds you... after the fires have cleansed your being... only the truth remains. My fire burns strong and I will not apologise for that. I love myself as I am and for who I am in totality, and my style - as old and craggy and hard and wise and beautiful and strange as it is - I appreciate it for all it has brought me and continues to. Life enjoys its freedom to exist and express how it wants to. I celebrate that in my life.


And please - if you are going to 'charge' me with something panopticon, make a proper case. Other than your completely subjective addition of volume to my posts, what exactly is your argument for it being 'clearly meant to intimidate'. How is that fact clear, in a way that is independent of your subjective assumptions of tone and volume? And how is it that a post which is clearly meant to intimidate one in which the poster has openly and honestly mentioned their own mental illness? Gee that's certainly a way to paint a picture intended to intimidate... here just let me clearly be open about my own weaknesses...
And please by all means regard my questions as rhetorical. This conversation is making me feel like a 20 year old marriage.

No.. really... they are rhetorical.. because in all honesty, this conversation is over.
I'm off to the pub with the boys.

My words come from deep in my soul, from deep in the Earth and from deep into time. And instead of wanting to tame and cut down every piece of wilderness you come upon, how about instead just appreciating it for what it is. The need to tame everything out of fear is one of the reasons so little wilderness is left on the Earth. Your thoughts and maya may skip over the silent depths and limitless mystery of it, but do not destroy out of fear, what you do not understand or misunderstand, just to make yourself feel illusionarily safe or illusionarily right. If, however, you truly understand a thing, and want to argue for something being truly right or wrong then go for it - that is the mechanic of actual change and progression in theory and knowledge and without it we would never grow at all. In beauty and life, mystery is essential. And in peace and silence, wisdom minds not.

[panopticon]

"Screaming"? That is a purely subjective interpretation of my or anyone's posts - volume is not included in a post. If you interpreted my posts as screaming that is your subjective experience of them 100%. Words on a page do not have volume, that is something you add to a post yourself. And as for deliberate attempt at intimidation? That again is your personal interpretation. What I do is argue, how you interpret that tone or volume really is your subjective experience of it because there are many different ways to read a thing and the way you read it does not make your interpretation of it right.

You have totally and 100% assumed that every single instance of the word bullsh*t must be screamed because that is how the word exists in all its forms? Quite obviously it is not true that the word bullsh*t comes with the necessary condition that it is shouted. Do not confuse strength with volume. They are two different things.

And so you find it once again within your time and effort to write a large post telling me off for my behaviour - which is what you have done again... calling my post the verbally loaded 'rant'.. and yet it's ok for two members of this thread to have falsely accused me of being a paid secret service operative? That's ok though.. oh I see.

And what I would say to you, again, is that how you read my tone is your subjective experience. I know that another poster on this thread does not find my posts disrespectful in tone or measure as certainty, because they told me, and yet they are reading the same posts as you. And I too, know very well the tone I used in writing them and I will tell you now - I am far too mature to 'shout' - you assume to know my tone and you assume to know my volume. That, panopticon is an assumption. "Screaming" "bullsh*t"?? excuse me? And please, pray tell, how exactly did you deduce that my volume was screaming? What proof and argument can you offer other than your complete and utter assumptions?

none. other than your experience of the word bullsh*t and your assumptions of my tone and intent. The tone you read in a post is very much a reflection of how your own mind works, especially highlighted by the fact that other people around you do not read it in the same way and also as the writer I know for a fact that you are mistaken.

And as for respectful - you assuming to know my volume or my tone (which is in your mind not my post) - something you cannot possible know, and then judging me for it - well in my personal opinion that is not respectful or rather what I would say is it is not what I would deem 'correct behaviour', because it is not based on correct things or premises. But you know what? Because I recognise that as a personal interpretation and is subjective, that judgement is nothing to DO with you. What I understand it as is a part of my own methodology - I see your behaviour and methodology as incorrect as in that isn't how I would behave, personally. It is not my place however, to place that judgement upon you. And as for "rant" - my hand is heavy, that is the way I am, and that may not be something you come across every day. I argue powerfully and my roots are deep, and I will say again that shouting is NOT my style. I don't shout - I speak with purpose and I speak with strength. Do not confuse the two. Greater resolution is required than a 'just chuck her in the same category as other people with strong voices', or 'it's a swear word therefore must be screamed'. People are much more rich and varied than that.

I am an opinionated person; i have strong opinions on things. I have always been this way but it is definitely something that is part and parcel of the scientific world, especially in peer review. You have a case and you argue for it. The debating in science and academia in general is heavy going, but, we understand that this is the path to discovering the truth of a thing, or at least its errors. You knock and take your knocks with as good grace as possible but it is known that that's the way to discovery. It's what makes science so powerful. Perhaps this is a case of me having brought my heavy style from the peer review ring into here - but rather than complain that the game has gotten too strong, perhaps see it as an opportunity to lift your game. I could not argue as strongly, but then who would that serve? What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, Nietzsche said. And indeed what criticism is true and hurts and wounds you... after the fires have cleansed your being... only the truth remains. My fire burns strong and I will not apologise for that. I love myself as I am and for who I am in totality, and my style - as old and craggy and hard and wise and beautiful and strange as it is - I appreciate it for all it has brought me and continues to. Life enjoys its freedom to exist and express how it wants to. I celebrate that in my life.


And please - if you are going to 'charge' me with something panopticon, make a proper case. Other than your completely subjective addition of volume to my posts, what exactly is your argument for it being 'clearly meant to intimidate'. How is that fact clear, in a way that is independent of your subjective assumptions of tone and volume? And how is it that a post which is clearly meant to intimidate one in which the poster has openly and honestly mentioned their own mental illness? Gee that's certainly a way to paint a picture intended to intimidate... here just let me clearly be open about my own weaknesses...
And please by all means regard my questions as rhetorical. This conversation is making me feel like a 20 year old marriage.

No.. really... they are rhetorical.. because in all honesty, this conversation is over.
I'm off to the pub with the boys.

My words come from deep in my soul, from deep in the Earth and from deep into time. And instead of wanting to tame and cut down every piece of wilderness you come upon, how about instead just appreciating it for what it is. The need to tame everything out of fear is one of the reasons so little wilderness is left on the Earth. Your thoughts and maya may skip over the silent depths and limitless mystery of it, but do not destroy out of fear, what you do not understand or misunderstand, just to make yourself feel illusionarily safe or illusionarily right. If, however, you truly understand a thing, and want to argue for something being truly right or wrong then go for it - that is the mechanic of actual change and progression in theory and knowledge and without it we would never grow at all. In beauty and life, mystery is essential. And in peace and silence, wisdom minds not.

G'day Shade,

Thanks for the response.

The term 'screaming' does not only mean to vocalisation at loud volume, though you are completely correct that this is it usual interpretation. It also means:


To speak or write in a heated hysterical manner.
Source (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/screaming).

You are correct that I interpreted your repeated use of the term in question.
I don't really see it being used as witty banter in the context or way that it was used.
In that context I don't understand how its repeated use is anything but a form of intimidation.

You have said that this wasn't your intent.
Fair enough.
I believe you and shall re-read your post tomorrow to try and work out how it was respectful and positive.

Have a good night at the rubba dub dub.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[ThePythonicCow]

Pardon? Add you too, to my ignore list?

Seriously..
It seems the time has come, Shade, to add you to this forum's ignore list for a few days.

You got some excellent advice above, well stated. You chose to sneer at their suggestions in return.

There were a couple of times previously, since you joined us, that you were rude to others here, but the other forum members did an excellent job of moderating the situation, so my involvement as a moderator wasn't needed.

Please respect your fellow forum member if you wish to be a member here.

Thanks.

[AlexanderLight]

This is why people MUST challenge the official version of history when there is evidence of truncated, distorted or completely forged truths.

New Evidence of Early Man: SUPPRESSED [Documentary]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koYWznEIV50

[AlexanderLight]

@RMorgan: The CIA, NSA and other official agencies have infiltrated agents in all the online communities (especially those who challenge the system and/or question the official stories). I am sorry that you consider me "childish" and not open minded (as stated) for pointing this out.

Occupy Corporatism (http://occupycorporatism.com/cia-sponsored-trolls-monitor-internet-interact-with-users-to-discredit-factual-information/): CIA-Sponsored Trolls Monitor Internet & Interact With Users to Discredit Factual Information

"In July of this year it became apparent through a flood of mainstream media reports that the National Security Agency (NSA) was 'desperate to hire new hacking talent to protect the nation’s critical infrastructure' yet the NSA is notorious for its surveillance programs on American digital activity."

They also have agents infiltrated in all the public manifestations and they are called "agent provocateurs". While the TROLLS discredit everything that is not official or officially accepted, the agent provocateurs incite the crowds to violence or act violently themselves (against the police or public property), making the police intervention required against the crowds.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhlsegIE9a4
Inciting to violence is what both types of agents are payed to do (the trolls to verbal violence, while the agent provocateurs to physical violence).

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur): "An agent provocateur is an agent employed by the police or other entity to act undercover to entice or provoke another person to commit an illegal act. More generally, the term may refer to a person or group that seeks to discredit or harm another by provoking them to commit a wrong or rash action. (...) The provocateurs try to incite the opponent to do counter-productive or ineffective acts to foster public disdain—or provide a pretext for aggression against the opponent."

Agent provocateur operating during the Occupy Wall Street protests:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmtCsXrYUm8

[ThePythonicCow]

I'm closing this thread for a few hours. Some work is needed here, but I don't have time right now to deal with it.

[ThePythonicCow]

I'm closing this thread for a few hours. Some work is needed here, but I don't have time right now to deal with it.

I'm reopening this thread now. No other action taken :).

The posts just before the one where I closed it seemed a bit confrontational, and when they "woke up" a thread that had been dormant for a couple of months, got my attention.

But reading over this thread now, the entire thread has been like that :).

[Alexis]

I Learnt a lot on annunaki , Sumérians , Egypt and language origins with Anton Parks 's books. he has a very good site. he is little Known but what he says is exceptional and explained. I council his books.
Regards
Alex

[AlaBil]

I Learnt a lot on annunaki , Sumérians , Egypt and language origins with Anton Parks 's books. he has a very good site. he is little Known but what he says is exceptional and explained. I council his books.
Regards
Alex

Alex...Do you know when Anton Parks books are going to be translated into English?

[Alexis]

I Learnt a lot on annunaki , Sumérians , Egypt and language origins with Anton Parks 's books. he has a very good site. he is little Known but what he says is exceptional and explained. I council his books.
Regards
Alex


Alex...Do you know when Anton Parks books are going to be translated into English?

Hello, Sorry I thought that his first book was translated since 2012. He was late there.
I'm going to inquire about on Anton Parks forum and if I have a date, I'll give it to you
Peace !

[AlexanderLight]

I was not able to find anything in English from or about Anton Parks, unfortunately, but I've used Google Translate to read his bio.

More or less: "He published a revolutionary thesis of decoding the Sumerian language. (...) His theories are similar to those of Zecharia Sitchin, though he contests some key points." In his books he brings evidence of humanoid reptilians in our past.

[Alexis]

Hi,
I can give this Link: It's Anton Parks by Gerry Zeitlin ( in english)
http://www.zeitlin.net/EndEnchantment/Secrets.html
the books will be available very soon in english: The secret of black stars and Eden. Beginning 2013

Bye

[Luis Filipe]

Hi people, about the stones in Baalbek. and also to introduce you to The Mighty Edward Leedskalnin. Thou shall not underestimate the power of the unseen forces.

-Edward Leedskalnin
-Ancient Knowledge part 1 (and the following parts)
-Geomancy
-Ley Lines
-Coral Castle
-Cymatics
-Gregg Braden
-Magnetic Current (pdf)
-Peace & Love



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jwJXls8gJ8

[AlexanderLight]

Baalbeck means "The City of the Master/Lord" -- both titles (Master and Lord) were being used by the humans to address the Anunnaki 'gods'... and not only.

The title Baal was used by many other ancient civilizations when referring to one of their 'gods'.

Baal is also worshiped by Satanists in their blood rituals.

"The platform (at Baalbeck) and large courtyard is still retained by three walls containing twenty-seven limestone blocks which have no equal in size anywhere in the world, as each of them weighs in excess of 300 metric tons... Three of the blocks, however, weigh around 1000 tons each. This block trio is world-renowned as the "Trilithon". Consider also the even larger monolith lying in a quarry over a half-mile away from the main Acropolis. It measures roughly 70 X 16 X 13 feet and weighs an estimated 1200 tons."

The ancient 'gods' were extraterrestrials and all the megalithic complexes around the world (including the GLOBAL constructions called "pyramids") had been built with their knowledge and technology.

[TheChosen]

I Learnt a lot on annunaki , Sumérians , Egypt and language origins with Anton Parks 's books. he has a very good site. he is little Known but what he says is exceptional and explained. I council his books.
Regards
Alex

Alex...Do you know when Anton Parks books are going to be translated into English?

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68506-Anton-Parks-in-English-

They have been recently released.. contain a lot more than the Ages of Uras excerpts

[lunaflare]

so...
after wading through the highly questionable "translations" and hypothesis of z. Sitchen...
thoughts on WHO built the pyramids and WHY?
(they are everywhere and in every country-land and sea).