A Soul Cannot Be Captured

[DNA]

So I'm reading the Horus-Ra (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit) thread by Houman and folks are worried about something termed a soul harvester. This is explained as a machine that tricks folks into walking into a tunnel of light when they die.

And then I'm reading the Can a soul be captured (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51678-Can-a-soul-be-captured) thread by Pieneal and it's pretty much the same question. So, I'm just going to state I don't think this is the case. I've heard the John Lear stuff, I've heard the L Ron Hubbard stuff, and there is just no way in hell I'm buying that.

I think this is important to addresse because though I think there is a energetic conspiracy of sorts involved with siphoning our being this does not extend to capturing our immortal soul.
I think it is hard enough to deal with the dark parasitic nature of our universe: we need to know that our immortal souls are protected by a higher more powerfull force than the dark.




The Taittiriya Upanishad describes the five affected bodies with which our untouchable immortal soul resides.


1. Anna Maya Kosha: The body made of physical matter

2. Prana Maya Kosha: The body made of vital energy

3. Mano Maya Kosha: The body of thought energy

4. Vijnana Maya Kosha: The body of higher intelligence

5. Ananda Maya Kosha: The body of mystical awareness


http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSfgMJHHjxY1MbtDYQxeJWTpowdVf4H3 6TfKm_M-twd0LwBPUNSOQ


Now, though I don't believe in a soul harvester that sucks down our soul if we let's say walk into the light tunnel upon death, let me clarify that I absolutely think there are mechanisms in place that feed on the residuals of our soul.

It is my belief that this feeding takes place on these extra energy bodies that are associated with our soul, and that these extra energy bodies, though folks are a tad oblivious to them are not the same thing as the soul.
As a matter of fact these aspects atrophy with age and neglect, and in fact die and disintergrate with the body upon death.
I just want to reiterate that the energy bodies are not part of the immortal soul.
They are part of the mortal coil, and they are going to die.

This small but very important difference is very significant to me. And to the point of this thread I think.

Edgar Cayce and many others told of the fact that we are multidimensional beings, and it is to this I am pointing.
It may very well be the case that we are indeed stuck in a matrix of sorts, and that the reason for our limited awareness and atrophied energy bodies is the result of organized forces feeding upon them.


I find this intriguing to no end because of a powerfull vision I once had.
In the vision I had actualized momentarilly one of my atrophied energy bodies.

Which one I do not know, all I know is that when I looked from the eyes of this body I saw not the world we know but a structureless flat plane, a few rolling hills.
And in this world I saw fields of human sized coccoons with humans inside, not physical bodies, but the energy bodies that apparrantly are in fact multidimensional and are kind of in a vegatative state.

And this is the freaky thing, a being was acting as a worker or harvester of sorts, and I described it as a stick man.
The being looked like a humanoid version of the walking stick insect. This is not to far off from what the Horus Ra being was described as looking.
I posted this on a thread here on June 13th 2011
The Horus Ra thread was started Feb 18th 2012
I obviously was not influenced by this thread when I wrote about the experience.
A Brief Multidimensional Encounter (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?22614-Holographically-Projected-Human-Alien-Healers&p=243156&viewfull=1#post243156)


It is my belief that there may in fact be multiple forces acting in accord so to speak.
A different force for each energy body.
A different tactic or manuever for each different vibration of the energy body.
A multi-pronged attack.


http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/8247/grey081406bfa5.jpg


I think the depections Dr. Malanga (http://evelorgen.com/wp/articles/military-abduction-milabs-and-reptilians/horus-ra/#more-1095)displays are unnerving to say the least.
But just as unnerving is the idea of the shadow being.
And more pervasive and more inclusive in my opinion is this pantheon of parasites headed by the arch-parasite if you will, the demiurge.
It is this force which propels and regulates the forces who wish to by-pass reincarnation and escape the natural order of the universe.

I'm sure many beings of many different races through out our galaxy and then some have joined it.
As such we can get many different forms for which we attribute the negative race of aliens perpetuating parasitism on our race, but in reality they all share this same shadow master.

Dr. Malanga (http://evelorgen.com/wp/articles/military-abduction-milabs-and-reptilians/horus-ra/#more-1095)stated
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/misc/quote_icon.png So, the transdimensional form is Horus, the dark entity within is Ra. It is in actuality nothing more than a black shadow or dot


I find this intriguing to no end. Dr. Malanga further contends that

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/misc/quote_icon.png Ra is a dark entity coming from another Universe, a universe archetypally situated behind our universe. There is dark out there, no physical bodies, no light, no love, no souls. This Ra entity places implants on the tailbone, below the sacrum, from where he hangs on to the abductee’s body, parasiting the persona and performing a perverse type of mind control. Ra may come and go to his liking.


This stuff blows me away, when I was reading the Wendelle Steven's book "UFO CONTACT FROM IARGA (http://abundanthope.net/pages/Books_-_eBooks_27/UFO-CONTACT-FROM-PLANET-IARGA-Pdf.shtml)" I was blown away when the contactee asked if Jesus in fact existed the Iargans replied of course and gave affirmation to him being a powerfull force for good. When the contact asked if satan existed the Iargan replied affirmative, it was synomous with what we term black holes.

This served as confirmation of sorts because I had an experience with a shadow creature that I knew was no mere ghost.
The shadow creature was of human form, but make no mistake, it could have been reptillian, a grey, a Sirian or whatever.
I did not know then what I know now, but knew the connection it had to me was in my base chalkra area, and that it in my opinion fed on sexual energy.
This corresponds with what Dr. Malanga states above when he states

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/misc/quote_icon.png This Ra entity places implants on the tailbone, below the sacrum


Here is the post where I mention this, again, this post is from July 8th 2011, so again, I was not influenced by Horus-Ra thread which was created Feb 18th 2012

Shadow Beings Attracted to Human Sexual Energy? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21614-Parasitic-Non-Organic-Multidimensional-Beings&p=258028&viewfull=1#post258028)




It is my belief that souls who do not enter the tunnel of light upon death become hungry ghosts. Bill Ryan mentions these hungry ghosts here HITCHHIKERS (a sort of partial possession) - and how to handle them (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52553-HITCHHIKERS--a-sort-of-partial-possession--and-how-to-handle-them). If you do not cross over into the tunnel of light, your energy body is going to die, and when that happens you will have no choice but to feed off of the energy bodies of the living.


Entering the tunnel of light has always been termed a enjoyable experience by those who return and tell of the experience, as is the case here with Pam Reynolds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNbdUEqDB-k). This is the best documented NDE of all time in my experience and helps to illustrate the good in crossing over.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNbdUEqDB-k


It is my belief that if you do not cross over and in turn become one of these hungry ghosts, you are then more at risk of being recruited by the Demiurge, and basically turned into a shadow being.
I think we are all here to learn through the natural order of reincarnation, and as such we have folks watching out for us that are yes, more powerfull than the demiurge.

I do not think we need to fear the light upon death, it is there to guide us, to embrace us and to welcome us.

[Mike]

great post DNA!


i think it comes down to semantics, really. 'soul' is used as such an all-encompassing word, but the subtle levels of human existence are much more numerous than we've ever imagined imho. i think that confusion reigns when discussing energy vampirism and things like that because we're dealing with countless bits of phenomena, some of which that can be manipulated by malevolent outer forces and some that can't.

i've no doubt that manipulation occurs; but the soul, or the essence of a sentient being, in my opinion, cannot be tampered with or touched. one may say it is simply wishful thinking on my part, and they would have a point. but i could say in return that the soul-capture hypothesis sounds bloody ridiculous, and i'd have a point too;)

[Tony]

I totally agree A SOUL CANNOT BE CAPTURED!

That thread was in fact started by Bill, who took my comments off Kerry's thread, where I was asking ... How can a soul be captured, if it does not exist, as a separate entity? or something like that...

[deridan]

haven't read your excellent post yet, though only reason i'd discard the concept is because you can only actively worry or meditate about it for a limited time, and if after that you've made the conclusion that it can be captured,...you doing a lot of harm to yourself, you'd die decades later, but with that subliminal programming you've done or accepted on yourself.....well not worth it
besides if u meditate you say something like i 've made these alliances, can't believe these wouldn't shift heaven & el for that

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Thank you DNA, i dont believe it can be captured either.

Can i start by stating one very definite thing. Whats the use of worrying about something you have no control over ? none.

Our body creates ll sorts of eminations based on our interactive energy. We are like walking lolly pops withall sorts of flavours. The ingredients are generally called " emotions " . Your energy emination will attract whatever likes your flavour.

The saying " like attracts like " kicks in here. Electromagnetic microfigurations embedded within frequency eminations have a magnetic effect on other energies. " You are what you eat "

So, whilst you are alive this what you are subject to. So take responsability for your thoughts and have a much better time of it.

After we die we are so relaxed our soul goes back to an un influenced state, ie not influenced by our personality. It goes home automatically. If you think an alien race can over ride the creator of infinite intelligence you may need to understand what infinite intelligence means first.

When we die our soul goes home. I may roam for years re experiencing things it wished to solve because it is in a state where it can go and learn. Where that takes you cold be anywhere/thing.

Do not fear death, do not fear the purity of the soul. Harvesting souls is done by a decision you make whilst alive to be lead by fear therefore anchoring you into a repeated cycle till you get it. Thats re incarnation into dimentional construct.,

Your mission whilst alive is to break free of this by working out your karma, then deciding on who you are by Knowing Thy Self. Your soul is then " guided *" where to go once you have re configured your dna matrix whilst alive.

:-)

Save your self, wake up, look out side and see its just you looking back into your self

Hugs

Naniu

[gooty64]

Well, I think they can capture our attention but, they can not capture our soul-our immortal soul.

[Finefeather]

Hi All
Initially I did not want to post on this subject because it is a difficult one to try and convince the casual reader of. I need to say right from the outset that this is a difficult subject to briefly describe or do justice to in a forum post and whilst I will endeavor to be as accurate as possible, and choose my words with care, this is but a grain of sand in the magnificence of the true nature of the Soul. I understand that many will question this post, but if you are weary just leave it and move on. I make no claims for it's authenticity...you can decide for yourself. The workings of the inner planes are difficult to grasp but I can at least lay down a preliminary statement here in this regard and you can do the meditation and verification yourself.

To answer this question and have just a glimmer of understand this we need to first take a look at what a Soul is. There are few who can truly grasp this entirely because the Soul is the heart of the cosmic being we are trying to describe, and...most have not even come close to identifying the very source of their Being. We love to think that we are at the verge of understanding who we really are. We read books where every second one talks of cracking the code to some mystery...but we are far, very far, from understanding the real miracle of life.
I have heard this word, Soul, used in so many ways that we have actually lost the real meaning of it. In fact, generally speaking, I think we have never really ever used or understood this word correctly.

So to answer this objectively, and loose the emotional aspect, i just need to take you on a little journey before we can make statements about whether the Soul can be captured or not, sorry this may be a little technical but we need to just get through this first.

Everything that exists in the manifested universe or entire creation, be it physical, emotional or mental has 2 basic components, and 1 resultant outcome of the merging or interaction of the 2 basic components. Like if we mix sugar with water we create a sweet drink. We identify this creation by noticing that it is watery and sweet ...so it's quality would be sweet-water to us. This sweet drink can itself be the basic 1st component for yet another creation, if we add another 2nd component...in which case we would end up with another different creation or manifestation. So, in this way, and in a myriad of permutations, the entire universe and everything that exists is created...there is not one thing which does not follow this law. It is the basic law of creation. It is mentioned in every religion and every esoteric writing that exists. It is know as the Trinity in some writings. It is impossible to create anything out of only one component. Even the atom, which they tell us is a basic unit of matter consists of a dense central nucleus surrounded by a cloud of negatively charged electrons. And if that does not convince you lets have a last look at what quantum physics tells us. They talk of a particle which has "self energy' because it has a charge which could be positive or negative. So if we take a basic particle we still see 2 components in it. Now this quantum particle is either off or on. One moment it is and the next moment it is'nt. This off state of a particle is the state at which singularity occurs and this takes place out of space-time , and so this basic particle is existent for one moment and non-existent in another. This does not mean that the particle does not exist anymore but merely that it has now become a probability, and it's next appearance depends on the will of it's creator or observer. But the moment the particle exists it has a charge...which means it has 2 components, energy(from the creator-will) and mass(form) and what ever its charge is is it's 3rd aspect or resultant quality...or Soul. It has taken on a quality which we can identify it by...and so all of its possibilities and probabilities are based on it's qualities...it's Soul. This is the basis of duality. But, something or someone must have initiated this process and given it the will or command or thought to be what it is. This something or someone is the Spiritual Entity or Monad. This is the singularity or the ONE many think they understand. From this ONE all of manifested creation has taken on some quality and this is termed Soul. So we can have, the Universal Soul, The World Soul, and the Souls of individualized Spiritual Beings. This combined quality or Soul, which is the consciousness of the ONE is what everything in existence is adding to every time we have an experience...and remember everything we experience is a creation. We are creating continually...And I must add here now that we have not reached the human level yet. You should also note clearly here the real truth in the reasoning that we are all ONE from the same source.

From the first moment that Soul was created...and it was the very first thing...one significant event took place, which we call Consciousness...in other words the ONE became aware of itself because it could identify itself based on it's quality. Soul is therefore consciousness because we can only be conscious of something if something exists, if nothing existed there would be no consciousness and hence no Soul and so a Spiritual Being is only conscious because of the Soul which was created by it in the infinite void which we call matter or form. Strictly speaking there is no such thing as matter and form is by far a more correct word to use.
So to sum this up We are Spiritual Beings who have Consciousness and form...or we could say we are Spirits who have Soul and Form. Remember we are not at the physical human level yet.

Now...the most important thing to note is that this aspect which we call Soul, does not exist outside or separate from the one that creates...this is not possible because Soul is a creation and therefore an effect not a cause...Soul cannot create, but it can be a catalyst to create...and we have seen, above, that everything that exists consists of 2 components and 1 outcome, this outcome is the Soul Aspect of a Spiritual Being. So it is technically incorrect to state that you are a Soul...but you certainly have Soul just in the same way as if you say "hey man that dude's got soul" :) The other important thing we should get out of this is that we cannot exist as a creation without Soul. The only time Soul will cease to be will be at the end of the great cycle after the in breath of the ONE. But remember consciousness is one thing and knowing is something else...and it is that 'knower' or 'causer' who is the real us...the real us is the ONE Monad which has created consciousness to identify itself...but once again I must remind you that this 'knower' I am addressing here is not the same 'knower' we may think of with our conscious 3D earthly mind... this 3D mind is the one who thinks he knows...as apposed to knowing he knows that he knows (I AM...I AM THAT...I AM THAT I AM)...and does not yet, in most cases, fully know that it knows because it has not yet achieved full ascension as in the case of some Higher ascended Beings.

Now we can move on to the physical 3D world we live in.

The 3D body/mind mechanism, which is collectively known as the Personality, is housed in what is known as a physical permanent atom which is situated at the lower chakra (where Kundalini slumbers) in our etheric bodies and is a temporary creation for gathering experience whilst in incarnation in a 3D state. When the body is used up this permanent atom ceases to be and the experiences (consciousness) are retained in the higher mind/form creation as we saw above, so the Soul of the Higher Being is increased and hence the Soul of the ONE creator is increased. You may have wondered sometimes why you can remember some things and not others in your life...well this is to do with this temporary physical atom which we create for our current mission on earth and we only store memory of important stuff and things we need for our mission, the rest is noise as they say.

The Soul qualities which each individualized Spiritual Being possesses have been accumulated and refined and molded and perfected over millions of years of incarnations and lives in different worlds and different kinds of bodies ... But when we incarnate into a body a strange thing happens to most of us. The Soul aspect is difficult to bring through into this density because of the immaturity of the body mind construct. The permanent atom which is created is of such a nature that the current normal configuration does not allow the higher aspect of Soul and Mind to fully take control of the physical body/mind so it is only partially in control and thus only partially present and so we are usually only partially enlightened. This permanent physical atom is the equivalent of the quantum particle and is the reason why we cannot remember other lives etc and as we know in science atoms have a thing called the 'ring pass not' which is determined by the state of the proton. Radium, for example, radiates particles and can be termed an enlightened element. Humans are exactly the same, and this is also the proof that enlightenment comes from within. You cannot gain enlightenment from the outside...enlightenment is an inside-out process not a outside-in process. So the more enlightened you become the greater is your ring pass not...this is the source of your aura, and radiation of a human is seen in the halo we see depicted in some images of Christ and other more advanced enlightened Beings. This is the Soul quality which is displayed in advanced Beings. If you are clairvoyant you can see the state of the enlightenment of a human by the aura emanations.
Now...when we are in incarnation we build up an identity as well, just as the higher Spiritual Entity does but on the physical plane we call this the Personality and it consists of the body, inherited from the parents, the mind which is initially animal in nature with all its instincts and survival tools, and our upbringing, together with the amount of higher soul qualities which is managing to 'get through' with this body mind construct. So we cannot remember who we are and where we come from and our upbringing seems to dictate and sculpture our personalities. This continues and as the Incarnating entity becomes wiser, or enlightened, due to many lives, and thus more experienced, the amount of higher soul quality increases with each incarnation until such time that you can start remembering more and your life starts to become more enlightened until one day in the future we will have altered the body/mind construct to such an extent that the true Spiritual Being can walk the face of the earth in full Spiritual glory. This is our goal.

So from this we can deduct that on a physical level it would be quite easy to manipulate the temporary personality if done at the right point in a persons life. We can also see clearly that people can be easily psychologically controlled by the use of drugs or an array of cleverly designed devices and means for mental and emotional distortion. These means can be administered knowingly and willingly or by force or by clever illusions and glamor depending on the state of the enlightenment of the person and his/her will. You can kill a human, change his mind because of his/her own ignorance, manipulate and control his/her mind to such an extent that it would appear as if the person is a walking zombie. Then we should not forget all the things the personality can do to itself because of emotional and mental abnormality and distortion. To the Higher Spiritual Being this is all part of the game and it knows the many pitfalls in life and at the very most any life failure would be a disappointment for the Spiritual Being...but certainly no disaster.

So I can conclude by stating an esoteric fact that the Soul of the Spiritual Being is an integral part of it's Being and there is just no way that anyone can capture or harm or manipulate or change or alter it in any way, because it would be a bit like trying to beat the green out of green. Each individual Spiritual Being's Soul aspect is unique to it and has been created from millions of years of existence. When we enter or visit the inner planes in our sleep state or in advanced out of body states we identify one another by the beauty of each Beings Soul and let me tell you it is a truly magnificent sight to behold.

When we start becoming spiritually aware the first thing we need to make sure we get in order is our ability to protect our self from external material forces whose agenda is in direct conflict with ours. These material forces arrest the march of evolution...but they are as much a part of the ONE as any other Being and when you have the opportunity to witness their identity in the higher planes you will see the glory of the ONE in the same way...they are our brothers and sisters.

Unconditional Love is the key to world peace and the brotherhood of man is a fact.

Love to all
Ray

[deridan]

i've just read something on souls, from convoluted universe one,
from a soul who from a previous karmic existence in which they did not appreciate there soul, getting in one existence a robot body, where for purposes of getting more than the programmed outputs from the robots, soul fragments were imparted into the soul,
when these robots wanted the closeness of humans experienced,
& having there own bodies be the prison,
sad stuff

there are other things to worry about, (& since no-one here has started worrying about it i won't tell either)

[DNA]

i've just read something on souls, from convoluted universe one,
from a soul who from a previous karmic existence in which they did not appreciate there soul, getting in one existence a robot body, where for purposes of getting more than the programmed outputs from the robots, soul fragments were imparted into the soul,
when these robots wanted the closeness of humans experienced,
& having there own bodies be the prison,
sad stuff

there are other things to worry about, (& since no-one here has started worrying about it i won't tell either)

I'm guessing the idea of Chi and subtle energy bodies of which I was alluding in the first entry here were a tad too esoteric when the movie the Matrix came out. That movie was amazing, and when it came out, I knew what they meant when they were using the metaphor of heat. I knew they were alluding to the subtle energy bodies of Chi/Ki in general. After all, if a non-sentient life form wanted to experience life, it wouldn't be heat these folks would need, but subtle energy bodies. And the only way to trap a soul,,,,really trap a soul, is to keep it in the body. This would keep the subtle energy bodies vital and the Chi flowing, if a non-sentient life form were in fact trying to experience reality.

Hell, you could go a step further and say this is what a discarnate spirit would want to do if it wanted to live forever and by so doing by-pass the reincarntiaonal nature of the universe.
I don't like to dwell on the alien presense.
Not on the negative aspect of it, but I concede that there may in fact be a parasitism going on in terms of by-passing reincarnational nature.

We have established to a certain degree that if you don't want to go into the tunnel of light you don't have to.
It's hard for folks to concieve of a society where the technological innovations have included and are aware of spiritual realities.
Imagine if as member of such a society, if you had the choice upon death to enter into a technological innovation, a innovation resembling a sentient life form, but in fact robotic in nature.

Such a robot may be synthetic, but of organic material, and when push comes to shove, powered by a unique power source.
I leave the particulars up to you, but I have often speculated as to why cattle mutilations and the like are kept alive while the mutilation process is taking place.
The only logical reason in my opinion is because there is something being harvested along with the biological components, and in fact, these biological components may act as conduits for what is really important.

[DNA]

i think it comes down to semantics, really. 'soul' is used as such an all-encompassing word, but the subtle levels of human existence are much more numerous than we've ever imagined imho. i think that confusion reigns when discussing energy vampirism and things like that because we're dealing with countless bits of phenomena, some of which that can be manipulated by malevolent outer forces and some that can't.


I think it comes down to semantics too at times. But there are folks who take this line of thinking that the light at the end of the tunnel upon death is a trap. Here is a snippet from the book "war in heaven" by Kyle Gri (https://www.dmt-nexus.me/Files/Books/General/War%20In%20Heaven.pdf)ffith. In it, it states that upon death folks are tricked into going into the light at the end of the tunnel by supposed celestial religious figuires and or recently deceased family members.

I have had folks throw this work at me, and use it to further this argument that the light seen at the end of the tunnel upon death is a trap of sorts, and I would just like to state that I think nothing could be further than the truth.

In my experience and or correlation it is those who do not enter the tunnel of light that end up with negative associations.





http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/misc/quote_icon.png War in Heaven and The Theocrats
Having introduced the major entities: souls, those who manipulate them, and the technology for doing so, we need to develop these concepts much further. This is as good a place as any to refer to the groundbreaking visionary work of Kyle Griffith, found in his book War in Heaven (1988).

As a physical framework, Griffith speaks of "astral matter" that has an atomic and subatomic particle structure resembling that of physical matter, but possessing much less mass than the physical counterpart. Although the mass ratios among the various astral subatomic particles is the same as that of the physical ones, all have much less absolute mass than physical electrons.

Astral subatomic particles have gravitational properties that resemble but do not interact with the gravitation of physical particles. Likewise there is astral energy that does not interact with physical systems.

There is however one very important exception to this general lack of interaction, and this actually is the basis of "the secret of life": Astral matter forms complex organic molecules just as physical matter does, and their respective chemical bonds have similar energy levels and photon frequencies associated with them. This allows for resonance and chemical bonding between physical and astral matter. It is the combined molecular system that exhibits the basic characteristics of "life", such as irritability and the ability to reproduce.

This is how astral matter and the soul, which is constructed of astral matter, become involved in the reduplication of DNA and many aspects of cell metabolism.

The bonding provides a pathway by which some of the cell's metabolic energy can be converted into astral energy that feeds the soul, powering its various functions, and providing for regeneration of its astral matter, which is then used to perform cellular growth and repairs.

Death is caused by breaking the bonds between physical and astral matter.

The soul spoken of here is a primitive analog of the physical body. It is alive, but it is not sentient. It has a nervous system but not a mind. Griffith calls this the somatic soul. The "true" soul is the astral soul.

The astral soul is a body of astral matter linked to the somatic soul's nervous system by the famous silver cord. This is structured like a segment of plant root with feeder roots at both ends, tapping into the two souls' nervous systems.

Energy flowing from the body into the somatic soul and through the silver cord to the astral soul is the astral soul's only truly efficient source of nourishment.

When the body dies, the somatic soul decomposes. The astral soul does not, but it loses its best source of energy.

A new somatic soul is created during the embryological development of every new human being.

Griffith provides a complicated discussion of various methods of reincarnation, involving ways in which the astral soul connects, and interactions with the mother's astral soul. Although quite interesting, this is beyond the scope of our page.

What is important for us here is this: the astral soul (or spirit) normally receives its energy from the living physical body and must reincarnate within ten to fifty years in order to revitalize itself. If it does not accomplish this, it faces illness, insanity, and death.

However there are many drawbacks to reincarnation also: the chance of encountering hidden body flaws, poor earthly environments, birth traumas, and so forth.

Some spirits are unwilling to take these chances. They take a different, evil, and immoral path to replenishing themselves: cannibalism. They are able to use telepathic powers to "hypnotize" spirits who then allow them to attach their own silver cord to them, just as though they were the somatic soul of an infant. By this means they can draw out enough energy to sustain themselves, but the process destroys the other spirit.

In War in Heaven, the spirits that do this are termed Theocrats, probably because for long millennia the vehicle they have used to capture and destroy weaker spirits has been religion. The Theocrats obtain victims by posing as gods and persuading religious believers to come to them voluntarily after death thinking they are entering "eternal bliss in Heaven".

[Deega]

Thanks DNA for this wonderful Tread, I have one comment that make me think that there might be something to ''soul captured'' and I hope that I'm wrong in my belief.

I have read Michael Newton works and a few of his videos, I have read different other authors on the matter and still I have interrogation!

My understanding is that we have been created by an advanced race of beings who came to Earth thousand of years ago.

I have read the work of Anton Park where he posits that advanced beings (Gina_Abul) from Orion, Sirius, other came to Earth escaping a war raging in their Constellation. And this particular beings were our creators.

If (?) we were created by an extraterrestrial advanced beings, and as you say, we passes through a tunnel at death, would you see this as a programmed migration from living to dying and on...?, a circular cycle (programmed by our creators) we can't escape..?

And if you accept this concept, would you view this also as ''soul caption''... somehow?

I have read another author who was able through meditation, had access to the aether (other world) where he experience visiting the tunnel, visit other venue than the tunnel, and the particular one that he likes more was getting one consciousness on a ''golden light'', where he felt that was one much nearer than what we were taught to believe as ''paradise'' (at least when I was young), have you ever had the pleasure of testing that..., in your meditation?

All the best to you.

[seah]

"semantics" does make it more difficult to navigate through these topics, still we each must find ways to convey what we discover is our current understanding of things, because there is always knew learning that is required, no belief should ever be so hardwired that it cannot be reexamined. My understanding of what a soul is has changed over time.
Sallustitus, in “About the gods and the world” says: “of souls, some are rational and immortal some are irrational and mortal." and if that alone was the way of things, how simple the terrain would be. :heart:

[greybeard]

If the mystics--enlightened are to be believed, and I do, there is only One.
Eckhart Tolle who does help/advise people in duality some times will speak from a non dual position as in this quote "There was never anyone there to do anything to you"

We are the dreamer in the the dream--Maya --illusion --call it what you will.

The mind complicates but in absolute reality there is only "One without a second" --Only Self as in "Self realisation/ enlightenment".

So what you are is eternal and completely safe.
All the rest is story telling--dream time.

Very real --its meant to be.

Chris

[Bill Ryan]

[Mod hat on]

I changed the title of this thread (that was started back in 2012) so it's in the form of a question, to encourage open discussion. I also moved it to the 'Spirituality' section, where I think it belongs.

For the record, it's my personal certainty that a soul certainly CAN be captured, but it may depend on exactly what 'captured' means. A soul can have all kinds of interesting (and sometimes dramatic) things happen to it, for sure, but it can never be actually destroyed... or permanently harmed.

:focus:

[greybeard]

I think you would have to define what is meant by the word soul.
Mooji and other non-duality--neo-advaita teachers are uniform and clear.
Things may appear to happen to what you think is your core being but in reality it is not so.
The enlightened know otherwise.
Of course the belief depends on what is regularly read.--can leads to the way you interoperate experiences.
Anything that comes and goes, experiences, --impermanent-- is not what you are.
You witness these experiences happening to your body/persona, creating emotions and pain or pleasure but the witness is unaffected.

Chris

[Peace of Mind]

The dead tells no tales. How can such information be gained when the experience of death is not only personal… but unexplored by the living? If a person regains consciousness from a “supposed” death…how can they ever be proven to have ever been dead?

Since this can’t actually be answered…how does anyone know about something(anything) harvesting souls, after death?
I’m also interested in knowing how the” experiencer of death” not only escaped from being harvested…they somehow came back to give testimony…without evidence. I'm most intrigue by that. Without that bit of information...I can only view this theory as fear mongering, accompanied with more conditioning tactics? I wouldn’t worry or concern myself with this, imo, what truly matters is what happens to your soul now…as you still have control over it. Make the best of your current situation to ensure the soul can deal with any situation later. Don’t let ill-conceived ideologies weaken it by placing it in a state of despair and insecurity.

Peace

[DNA]

Thanks DNA for this wonderful Tread, I have one comment that make me think that there might be something to ''soul captured'' and I hope that I'm wrong in my belief.

I have read Michael Newton works and a few of his videos, I have read different other authors on the matter and still I have interrogation!

My understanding is that we have been created by an advanced race of beings who came to Earth thousand of years ago.

I have read the work of Anton Park where he posits that advanced beings (Gina_Abul) from Orion, Sirius, other came to Earth escaping a war raging in their Constellation. And this particular beings were our creators.

Hi Deega
First off let me apologize for this late response. Back when you had made this comment my six month old daughter began suffering from grand mall seizures. It was super scary myself and my wife were spending a lot of time either dealing with medical situations and or staring into our daughter's eyes looking for any signs of what was happening. These seizures were super scary, she would stop breathing. Anyway she is fine now and we even stopped the medication. Turns out my mom had this when she was a baby as well.

Anyway enough of that.
I'm obviously right there with you on Michael Newton.
I've not read the Anton Park stuff, but it sounds a lot like the Robert Morningsky "terra papers".
And of course this all is plausible and kind of goes along with the Zacharia Sitchin stuff.
That being the case, I do not think it is necessary to assume our biological creators would also be our soul caretakers.
The Urantia book states something I've always thought was pertaining to this exact scenario.
The Urantia book written in the 1920's, before almost all medical advancements including antibiotics stated "mankind and it's scientists will learn how to do many things in regards to biological life on this planet, but they will NEVER be able to create it".
For me that has always meant something in regards to the Annunaki and the like.





If (?) we were created by an extraterrestrial advanced beings, and as you say, we passes through a tunnel at death, would you see this as a programmed migration from living to dying and on...?, a circular cycle (programmed by our creators) we can't escape..?

No.

If there is a techonology in place to trap and or limit the soul, I believe it is in use on our planet while we are living.
I believe that we are kept from actualizing who we really are by "something" a "force" if you will. I sometimes think it is related to gravity, and the reason our moon is in tidal lock.

And, I will state, I believe Saturn and the moon have something to do with it.



And if you accept this concept, would you view this also as ''soul caption''... somehow?

I have read another author who was able through meditation, had access to the aether (other world) where he experience visiting the tunnel, visit other venue than the tunnel, and the particular one that he likes more was getting one consciousness on a ''golden light'', where he felt that was one much nearer than what we were taught to believe as ''paradise'' (at least when I was young), have you ever had the pleasure of testing that..., in your meditation?

I'm not sure if we would all see the exact same thing under meditation.
I've learned to see ghosts in meditation and after quite a bit of trial and error I've had some success in making it seem non-threatening for the ghost to ask for help. At which time a prick of light appears, and then a portal opens up. For me, the light has always been pinkish. Very pleasant and quite rejuvenating. I state the rejuvenating part because my whole technique for holding a ghost in conversation is kind of depleting. I've detailed these accounts in a thread I started HERE (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21695-How-To-See-A-Ghost-For-Yourself).

Well better late than never. :)
Have a good one Deega :highfive:

[DNA]

"semantics" does make it more difficult to navigate through these topics,

It does. There are so many little areas where we think we have an agreed upon vocabulary,,,but in reality that is just not the case. :confused:


"
still we each must find ways to convey what we discover is our current understanding of things, because there is always knew learning that is required, no belief should ever be so hardwired that it cannot be reexamined. My understanding of what a soul is has changed over time.
Amen to that! :Angel:
Except in so far as experiential data plays into the picture.
It's hard to rise up through the ranks and develop skills that allow one to perceive this kind of thing.
As such, when you see certain things, and the most benevolent power you can sense throws you a synchronicity so as to pull your awareness entirely into the moment. Hell ya you are going to take that to the bank more so than some dude reading you Buddhist gospel. :)


"
Sallustitus, in “About the gods and the world” says: “of souls, some are rational and immortal some are irrational and mortal." and if that alone was the way of things, how simple the terrain would be. :heart:

The irrational would be the mortal side of the immortal and the rational would be the silence letting you make your own decisions on the matter.
I'm just saying, ALL higher dimensional powers/souls value free will more than anything else and would do nothing what so ever to threaten those of us not as perceptually gifted.:cake:

[greybeard]

Unfortunately I cant really contribute as from my perspective the thread is operating on a false premise ie that there are individual souls separate from source or what ever you wish to call That.
The traditional teachings speak of Maya/illusion---if you go with that then --only God is and I am That---no separation is possible except in the mind--maya

Eckhart Tolle said "Conscious is evolving to know itself"
Ramesh Balsekar said " At birth God begins removing the ego of some"
The term "Self Realisation", kind of sums it up.
The mystics say that, we are here to discover the Truth--Enlightenment is the removal of ignorance.
The ignorance being the lack of knowledge of our true Self--the untrue thought that we are a separate entity.

Chris

[Deega]

Thanks DNA for this wonderful Tread, I have one comment that make me think that there might be something to ''soul captured'' and I hope that I'm wrong in my belief.

I have read Michael Newton works and a few of his videos, I have read different other authors on the matter and still I have interrogation!

My understanding is that we have been created by an advanced race of beings who came to Earth thousand of years ago.

I have read the work of Anton Park where he posits that advanced beings (Gina_Abul) from Orion, Sirius, other came to Earth escaping a war raging in their Constellation. And this particular beings were our creators.

Hi Deega
First off let me apologize for this late response. Back when you had made this comment my six month old daughter began suffering from grand mall seizures. It was super scary myself and my wife were spending a lot of time either dealing with medical situations and or staring into our daughter's eyes looking for any signs of what was happening. These seizures were super scary, she would stop breathing. Anyway she is fine now and we even stopped the medication. Turns out my mom had this when she was a baby as well.

Anyway enough of that.
I'm obviously right there with you on Michael Newton.
I've not read the Anton Park stuff, but it sounds a lot like the Robert Morningsky "terra papers".
And of course this all is plausible and kind of goes along with the Zacharia Sitchin stuff.
That being the case, I do not think it is necessary to assume our biological creators would also be our soul caretakers.
The Urantia book states something I've always thought was pertaining to this exact scenario.
The Urantia book written in the 1920's, before almost all medical advancements including antibiotics stated "mankind and it's scientists will learn how to do many things in regards to biological life on this planet, but they will NEVER be able to create it".
For me that has always meant something in regards to the Annunaki and the like.





If (?) we were created by an extraterrestrial advanced beings, and as you say, we passes through a tunnel at death, would you see this as a programmed migration from living to dying and on...?, a circular cycle (programmed by our creators) we can't escape..?

No.

If there is a techonology in place to trap and or limit the soul, I believe it is in use on our planet while we are living.
I believe that we are kept from actualizing who we really are by "something" a "force" if you will. I sometimes think it is related to gravity, and the reason our moon is in tidal lock.

And, I will state, I believe Saturn and the moon have something to do with it.



And if you accept this concept, would you view this also as ''soul caption''... somehow?

I have read another author who was able through meditation, had access to the aether (other world) where he experience visiting the tunnel, visit other venue than the tunnel, and the particular one that he likes more was getting one consciousness on a ''golden light'', where he felt that was one much nearer than what we were taught to believe as ''paradise'' (at least when I was young), have you ever had the pleasure of testing that..., in your meditation?

I'm not sure if we would all see the exact same thing under meditation.
I've learned to see ghosts in meditation and after quite a bit of trial and error I've had some success in making it seem non-threatening for the ghost to ask for help. At which time a prick of light appears, and then a portal opens up. For me, the light has always been pinkish. Very pleasant and quite rejuvenating. I state the rejuvenating part because my whole technique for holding a ghost in conversation is kind of depleting. I've detailed these accounts in a thread I started HERE (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21695-How-To-See-A-Ghost-For-Yourself).

Well better late than never. :)
Have a good one Deega :highfive:

Thanks DNA, glad that your daughter made it through this ordeal, and glad also for family members relieved that health finally came in.

Well Anton Park had communicated with Sitchin before his death on particular questions, and Sitchin told him that all the answers were in his book, so Anton was a bit displeased with Sitchin attitude.

Interesting Urantia posit, but, when one think of the miracle intellectual capacity of human, and the technologies that they are able to put up, I would think that the capacity of human creation is only limited by the living conditions (good environment, good food, good living conditions, etc.), and reach out is probably unlimited. We just have to look at the technologies that have been put up in the last 20 years, awesome!

Yes, a special ''force'' is holding everything together, gravity probably. But I somewhat changed my mind on being trapped, I feel more inclined to think that we are part of a global consciousness held up together by another force (love manifest), and upon death, we transit toward that consciousness where other consciousness evolve somehow, and we transit again to some other consciousness as our will decide, I'm in fiction, but, I'm trying to imagine what will be.

You've had quite impressive experience in the astral world, thanks to share.

To you also, have a good day!

[greybeard]

DNA Im relieved and happy for you and your family that your daughter is now well.
That would have been a frightening experience.

Best wishes
Chris

[DNA]

For the record, it's my personal certainty that a soul certainly CAN be captured, but it may depend on exactly what 'captured' means. A soul can have all kinds of interesting (and sometimes dramatic) things happen to it, for sure, but it can never be actually destroyed... or permanently harmed.




I've witnessed souls/ghosts that were afraid to ask for help from whatever we would call the higher dimensions.
So if a containment system was devised that could in fact hold a ghost within and that ghost refused and or just wouldn't ask for help, then I suppose in those circumstances a soul/ghost could be captured.


But, if at any time that soul/ghost were to ask for help there is nothing that could prevent that plea from being heard by those in the higher dimensions and there is nothing that could prevent a pin prick of light from appearing next to the soul/ghost and if that soul/ghost were to listen to the advice of the individual who responded to their plea then the pin prick of life which is a portal to the higher dimensions could be traversed and that soul/ghost would be free.


Ultimately, as long as a soul/ghost were asking for help, help will arrive and there is nothing any containment system could do to prevent that.



I sometimes look at these Illuminati types and their practices including but not limited to things like pedophilia and rape.
From the things we hear, it almost seems like these things are mandatory rights of passage for these people to gain entry and or to be given their membership.


I'm thinking it is folks like this who would be possible to contain, for who would want to call to those angelic/higher dimensional folks for help, knowing you have done such horrible deeds. Would those angelic/higher dimensional forces show up for the worst of the worst in this case? Yes they would, but there would be karmic issues to deal with, and some folks might want to (opt out) of that.


Okay, enough with the abstract
Have a good one.
:playball:

[ZooLife]

The soul is a capturing device that captures nothing but the imagination.

Nothing captures the imagination like the soul does.

[DNA]

The dead tells no tales. How can such information be gained when the experience of death is not only personal… but unexplored by the living? If a person regains consciousness from a “supposed” death…how can they ever be proven to have ever been dead?

Since this can’t actually be answered…how does anyone know about something(anything) harvesting souls, after death?


I think it can be proven.


Within reasonability. Here is the story of Pam Reynolds. Pam had a huge vein full of blood that was about to burst any time in her brain. There was only one guy who was willing to try something, but it was experimental and tricky. Pam flew across the country to Phoenix AZ where she went to the Barnes Neurological Clinic. The procedure entailed killing Pam, lowering her body temperature to mimic what happens to victims who drawn in cold water and are capable of being resuscitated after long intervals of having been dead.
Then they would drain the blood out of Pam's body. So that the possible aneurism would not burst as they attempted to operate on her brain and fix the problem.
Pam was hooked up to an EKG machine that would have registered any brain activity what so ever. Even the quietest thought in Pam's brain would have been registered, but there was nothing because Pam was clinically dead. Dead of body and dead of brain, but not dead of spirit.
Pam watched the operation performed on her as she hovered above the table, and she gave a rendition of the event including conversations to the staff upon waking.
This was all while Pam was flatlined on the EKG machine, so what this means, is that Pam was using an instrument other than a physical brain to perceive the situation with.
It's only 11 minutes long. Watch the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNbdUEqDB-k
WNbdUEqDB-k

[greybeard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCRwuJoQAZg


Dr.Eben Alexander talks about his Near Death Experience & Proof of Heaven
I recently met with best selling author, Eben Alexander. You may have heard of his book “Proof of Heaven” or perhaps his second, “Map to Heaven” where he revealed how he found some peace and healing through self- discovery in a tragic event. In his first book, “Proof of Heaven,” Alexander touched millions of hearts through his story of a near death experience and experience in heaven. But at the same time his story raised some serious questions and doubts held by many readers. They put him on what’s known as a “skeptical trial.” But with his own experiences validating life after death’s existence, Dr. Alexander fearlessly stood his ground and remained transparent to share his story of pure truth with the world. - ...


When I asked Dr. Eben Alexander for directions on how to get to heaven he said I’ll never find it if I search for it with my mind in a mechanical sense. Throughout my interview, his passionate words swept me up in intrigue and all of my questions for him drifted away. To me, his story is unlike any other. I was left in awe and filled with wonder. Unfortunately, we know finding heaven won’t be as easy as entering an access code. Open sesame? I wish! But our world is filled with many mysteries that are not easily explainable. We may never know, was Dr. Alexander's NDE a real trip to heaven or a product of neural activity?

Science and spirituality may not be a match made in heaven, but who can determine the truth for anyone today? We need to look deeper and continue our search. We must dig, observe and keep our eyes open for any sign that leads us to truth and understanding. We have a chance to open our mind and hearts to transform our lives by accepting the most powerful feeling in the world, love. It is there we will find ourselves in heaven. Doesn’t it sound perfectly sublime?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhcJNJbRJ6U


Dying to be me! Anita Moorjani at TEDxBayArea
TEDx Talks
Published on Nov 30, 2013

Doctors had given Anita Moorjani just hours to live when she arrived at the hospital in a coma on the morning of February 2nd, 2006. Unable to move as a result of the cancer that had ravaged her body for almost four years, Anita entered another dimension, where she experienced great clarity and understanding of her life and purpose here on earth. She was given a choice of whether to return to life or not, and chose to return to life when she realized that "heaven" is a state and not a place. This subsequently resulted in a remarkable and complete recovery of her health. Anita's riveting talk will inspire you to transform your life by living more authentically, discovering your greatest passions, transcending your deepest fears, and living from a place of pure joy. Her true story will radically alter your current beliefs about yourself, your purpose on earth, your health, your relationships, and your life!


Dr Eben Alexander account is a classic as he is a Neuro Surgeon

Anita Moorjani account is another---total and complete healing was miraculous.

Chris

[Peace of Mind]

Thanks, DNA... for sharing that intriguing video, unfortunately, it only offers a testimony of probability and speculation…not actual proof of death. Seeing that this is also a tel-lie-vison show, I’m bound to reservations. There would have to be more experimentation, more similar testimonies, and some kind of familiarity with the “resurrected” before such an inconclusive account of the virtually unknown can even be considered. It appears to me that her soul/spirit/life force was still tethered to her body in some form that perhaps science has yet to recognize. Maybe if she was in this state for about a day or so….(separated from equipment/devices) and had no breath going in and out of her lungs…I'll be willing to re-examine my stance.

Peace

[greybeard]

Peace of Mind please listen to the Eben Alexander video.
With the type of illness he had--his frontal cortex was destroyed-- in normal terms if he had survived he would have been a "vegetable"
Being a Nero Surgeon of great knowledge and experience--his prior belief was completely turned around.
He now knows that the brain does not create consciousness --quite the opposite.

Well worth listening to him

Regards
Chris

[Shadowman]

Once a man walked into a dimly lit room. He saw a snake in the corner of the room.

In order to capture the snake he decided to make it easier by turning on the light.

Upon doing so, he could now see that what he had imagined to be a snake was in fact a piece of rope.

Now, can the snake be captured? (Or set free?)

Namaste
tim

[DNA]

Thanks, DNA... for sharing that intriguing video, unfortunately, it only offers a testimony of probability and speculation…not actual proof of death. Seeing that this is also a tel-lie-vison show, I’m bound to reservations. There would have to be more experimentation, more similar testimonies, and some kind of familiarity with the “resurrected” before such an inconclusive account of the virtually unknown can even be considered. It appears to me that her soul/spirit/life force was still tethered to her body in some form that perhaps science has yet to recognize. Maybe if she was in this state for about a day or so….(separated from equipment/devices) and had no breath going in and out of her lungs…I'll be willing to re-examine my stance.

Peace


Your a tuff cookie Peace Of Mind. How about NDE's reported by those who are blind and have never seen in their entire life?

Dr. Kenneth Ring's NDE Research of the Blind

Vicki Umipeg, a forty-five year old blind woman, was just one of the more than thirty persons that Dr. Ken Ring and Sharon Cooper interviewed at length during a two-year study just completed concerning near-death experiences of the blind. The results of their study appear in their newest book Mindsight. Vicki was born blind, her optic nerve having been completely destroyed at birth because of an excess of oxygen she received in the incubator. Yet, she appears to have been able to see during her NDE. Her story is a particularly clear instance of how NDEs of the congenitally blind can unfold in precisely the same way as do those of sighted persons. As you will see, apart from the fact that Vicki was not able to discern color during her experience, the account of her NDE is absolutely indistinguishable from those with intact visual systems. The following is an excerpt from Dr. Ring's latest book reprinted by permission.

Vicki told Dr. Ring she found herself floating above her body in the emergency room of a hospital following an automobile accident. She was aware of being up near the ceiling watching a male doctor and a female nurse working on her body, which she viewed from her elevated position. Vicki has a clear recollection of how she came to the realization that this was her own body below her. The following is her experience.

I knew it was me ... I was pretty thin then. I was quite tall and thin at that point. And I recognized at first that it was a body, but I didn't even know that it was mine initially.

Then I perceived that I was up on the ceiling, and I thought, "Well, that's kind of weird. What am I doing up here?"

I thought, "Well, this must be me. Am I dead? ..."

I just briefly saw this body, and ... I knew that it was mine because I wasn't in mine.

In addition, she was able to note certain further identifying features indicating that the body she was observing was certainly her own.

I think I was wearing the plain gold band on my right ring finger and my father's wedding ring next to it. But my wedding ring I definitely saw ... That was the one I noticed the most because it's most unusual. It has orange blossoms on the corners of it.

There is something extremely remarkable and provocative about Vicki's recollection of these visual impressions, as a subsequent comment of hers implied.

"This was," she said, "the only time I could ever relate to seeing and to what light was, because I experienced it."

She then told them that following her out-of-body episode, which was very fast and fleeting, she found herself going up through the ceilings of the hospital until she was above the roof of the building itself, during which time she had a brief panoramic view of her surroundings. She felt very exhilarated during this ascension and enjoyed tremendously the freedom of movement she was experiencing. She also began to hear sublimely beautiful and exquisitely harmonious music akin to the sound of wind chimes.

With scarcely a noticeable transition, she then discovered she had been sucked head first into a tube and felt that she was being pulled up into it. The enclosure itself was dark, Vicki said, yet she was aware that she was moving toward light. As she reached the opening of the tube, the music that she had heard earlier seemed to be transformed into hymns and she then "rolled out" to find herself lying on grass.

She was surrounded by trees and flowers and a vast number of people. She was in a place of tremendous light, and the light, Vicki said, was something you could feel as well as see. Even the people she saw were bright.

Everybody there was made of light. And I was made of light. What the light conveyed was love. There was love everywhere. It was like love came from the grass, love came from the birds, love came from the trees.

Vicki then becomes aware of specific persons she knew in life who are welcoming her to this place. There are five of them. Debby and Diane were Vicki's blind schoolmates, who had died years before, at ages 11 and 6, respectively.

In life, they had both been profoundly retarded as well as blind, but here they appeared bright and beautiful, healthy and vitally alive.

And no longer children, but, as Vicki phrased it, "in their prime."

In addition, Vicki reports seeing two of her childhood caretakers, a couple named Mr. and Mrs. Zilk, both of whom had also previously died. Finally, there was Vicki's grandmother - who had essentially raised Vicki and who had died just two years before this incident. In these encounters, no actual words were exchanged, Vicki says, but only feelings - feelings of love and welcome.

In the midst of this rapture, Vicki is suddenly overcome with a sense of total knowledge.

I had a feeling like I knew everything ... and like everything made sense. I just knew that this was where ... this place was where I would find the answers to all the questions about life, and about the planets, and about God, and about everything ... It's like the place was the knowing.

As these revelations are unfolding, Vicki notices that now next to her is a figure whose radiance is far greater than the illumination of any of the persons she has so far encountered. Immediately, she recognizes this being to be Jesus. He greets her tenderly, while she conveys her excitement to him about her newfound omniscience and her joy at being there with him.

Telepathically, he communicates to her.

"Isn't it wonderful? Everything is beautiful here, and it fits together. And you'll find that. But you can't stay here now. It's not your time to be here yet and you have to go back."
Vicki reacts, understandably enough, with extreme disappointment and protests vehemently.

"No, I want to stay with you."

But the being reassures her that she will come back, but for now, she "has to go back and learn and teach more about loving and forgiving."

Still resistant, however, Vicki then learns that she also needs to go back to have her children. With that, Vicki, who was then childless but who "desperately wanted" to have children (and who has since given birth to three) becomes almost eager to return and finally consents.

However, before Vicki can leave, the being says to her, in these exact words, "But first, watch this."

And what Vicki then sees is "everything from my birth" in a complete panoramic review of her life, and as she watches, the being gently comments to help her understand the significance of her actions and their repercussions.

The last thing Vicki remembers, once the life review has been completed, are the words, "You have to leave now."

Then she experiences "a sickening thud" like a roller-coaster going backwards, and finds herself back in her body.

Such reports, replete with visual imagery, were the rule, not the exception, among Ring and Cooper's blind respondents. Altogether, 80% of their entire sample claimed some visual perception during their near-death or out-of-body encounters. Although Vicki's was unusual with respect to the degree of detail, it was hardly unique in their sample.

Sometimes the initial onset of visual perception of the physical world is disorienting and even disturbing to the blind. This was true for Vicki, for example, who said:

I had a hard time relating to it (i.e., seeing). I had a real difficult time relating to it because I've never experienced it. And it was something very foreign to me ... Let's see, how can I put it into words? It was like hearing words and not being able to understand them, but knowing that they were words. And before you'd never heard anything. But it was something new, something you'd not been able to previously attach any meaning to.

Source: http://www.ascensionearth2012.org/20...ring-near.html (http://www.ascensionearth2012.org/2014/05/people-born-blind-can-see-during-near.html)

[joeecho]

I image I have been captive for a long time.

How long can I imagine my captivity?

[Peace of Mind]

Peace of Mind please listen to the Eben Alexander video.
With the type of illness he had--his frontal cortex was destroyed-- in normal terms if he had survived he would have been a "vegetable"
Being a Nero Surgeon of great knowledge and experience--his prior belief was completely turned around.
He now knows that the brain does not create consciousness --quite the opposite.

Well worth listening to him

Regards
Chris

Thanks greybeard, I’ll listen, and hopefully there is something I can actually extract from the videos that will give me some sought of personal experience on the matter. If it’s all just “talk”… I doubt it will do much for me…no matter how elegant and contrive the presentations may be.

Peace

[Peace of Mind]

Thanks, DNA... for sharing that intriguing video, unfortunately, it only offers a testimony of probability and speculation…not actual proof of death. Seeing that this is also a tel-lie-vison show, I’m bound to reservations. There would have to be more experimentation, more similar testimonies, and some kind of familiarity with the “resurrected” before such an inconclusive account of the virtually unknown can even be considered. It appears to me that her soul/spirit/life force was still tethered to her body in some form that perhaps science has yet to recognize. Maybe if she was in this state for about a day or so….(separated from equipment/devices) and had no breath going in and out of her lungs…I'll be willing to re-examine my stance.

Peace


Your a tuff cookie Peace Of Mind. How about NDE's reported by those who are blind and have never seen in their entire life?

Dr. Kenneth Ring's NDE Research of the Blind

Vicki Umipeg, a forty-five year old blind woman, was just one of the more than thirty persons that Dr. Ken Ring and Sharon Cooper interviewed at length during a two-year study just completed concerning near-death experiences of the blind. The results of their study appear in their newest book Mindsight. Vicki was born blind, her optic nerve having been completely destroyed at birth because of an excess of oxygen she received in the incubator. Yet, she appears to have been able to see during her NDE. Her story is a particularly clear instance of how NDEs of the congenitally blind can unfold in precisely the same way as do those of sighted persons. As you will see, apart from the fact that Vicki was not able to discern color during her experience, the account of her NDE is absolutely indistinguishable from those with intact visual systems. The following is an excerpt from Dr. Ring's latest book reprinted by permission.

Vicki told Dr. Ring she found herself floating above her body in the emergency room of a hospital following an automobile accident. She was aware of being up near the ceiling watching a male doctor and a female nurse working on her body, which she viewed from her elevated position. Vicki has a clear recollection of how she came to the realization that this was her own body below her. The following is her experience.

I knew it was me ... I was pretty thin then. I was quite tall and thin at that point. And I recognized at first that it was a body, but I didn't even know that it was mine initially.

Then I perceived that I was up on the ceiling, and I thought, "Well, that's kind of weird. What am I doing up here?"

I thought, "Well, this must be me. Am I dead? ..."

I just briefly saw this body, and ... I knew that it was mine because I wasn't in mine.

In addition, she was able to note certain further identifying features indicating that the body she was observing was certainly her own.

I think I was wearing the plain gold band on my right ring finger and my father's wedding ring next to it. But my wedding ring I definitely saw ... That was the one I noticed the most because it's most unusual. It has orange blossoms on the corners of it.

There is something extremely remarkable and provocative about Vicki's recollection of these visual impressions, as a subsequent comment of hers implied.

"This was," she said, "the only time I could ever relate to seeing and to what light was, because I experienced it."

She then told them that following her out-of-body episode, which was very fast and fleeting, she found herself going up through the ceilings of the hospital until she was above the roof of the building itself, during which time she had a brief panoramic view of her surroundings. She felt very exhilarated during this ascension and enjoyed tremendously the freedom of movement she was experiencing. She also began to hear sublimely beautiful and exquisitely harmonious music akin to the sound of wind chimes.

With scarcely a noticeable transition, she then discovered she had been sucked head first into a tube and felt that she was being pulled up into it. The enclosure itself was dark, Vicki said, yet she was aware that she was moving toward light. As she reached the opening of the tube, the music that she had heard earlier seemed to be transformed into hymns and she then "rolled out" to find herself lying on grass.

She was surrounded by trees and flowers and a vast number of people. She was in a place of tremendous light, and the light, Vicki said, was something you could feel as well as see. Even the people she saw were bright.

Everybody there was made of light. And I was made of light. What the light conveyed was love. There was love everywhere. It was like love came from the grass, love came from the birds, love came from the trees.

Vicki then becomes aware of specific persons she knew in life who are welcoming her to this place. There are five of them. Debby and Diane were Vicki's blind schoolmates, who had died years before, at ages 11 and 6, respectively.

In life, they had both been profoundly retarded as well as blind, but here they appeared bright and beautiful, healthy and vitally alive.

And no longer children, but, as Vicki phrased it, "in their prime."

In addition, Vicki reports seeing two of her childhood caretakers, a couple named Mr. and Mrs. Zilk, both of whom had also previously died. Finally, there was Vicki's grandmother - who had essentially raised Vicki and who had died just two years before this incident. In these encounters, no actual words were exchanged, Vicki says, but only feelings - feelings of love and welcome.

In the midst of this rapture, Vicki is suddenly overcome with a sense of total knowledge.

I had a feeling like I knew everything ... and like everything made sense. I just knew that this was where ... this place was where I would find the answers to all the questions about life, and about the planets, and about God, and about everything ... It's like the place was the knowing.

As these revelations are unfolding, Vicki notices that now next to her is a figure whose radiance is far greater than the illumination of any of the persons she has so far encountered. Immediately, she recognizes this being to be Jesus. He greets her tenderly, while she conveys her excitement to him about her newfound omniscience and her joy at being there with him.

Telepathically, he communicates to her.

"Isn't it wonderful? Everything is beautiful here, and it fits together. And you'll find that. But you can't stay here now. It's not your time to be here yet and you have to go back."
Vicki reacts, understandably enough, with extreme disappointment and protests vehemently.

"No, I want to stay with you."

But the being reassures her that she will come back, but for now, she "has to go back and learn and teach more about loving and forgiving."

Still resistant, however, Vicki then learns that she also needs to go back to have her children. With that, Vicki, who was then childless but who "desperately wanted" to have children (and who has since given birth to three) becomes almost eager to return and finally consents.

However, before Vicki can leave, the being says to her, in these exact words, "But first, watch this."

And what Vicki then sees is "everything from my birth" in a complete panoramic review of her life, and as she watches, the being gently comments to help her understand the significance of her actions and their repercussions.

The last thing Vicki remembers, once the life review has been completed, are the words, "You have to leave now."

Then she experiences "a sickening thud" like a roller-coaster going backwards, and finds herself back in her body.

Such reports, replete with visual imagery, were the rule, not the exception, among Ring and Cooper's blind respondents. Altogether, 80% of their entire sample claimed some visual perception during their near-death or out-of-body encounters. Although Vicki's was unusual with respect to the degree of detail, it was hardly unique in their sample.

Sometimes the initial onset of visual perception of the physical world is disorienting and even disturbing to the blind. This was true for Vicki, for example, who said:

I had a hard time relating to it (i.e., seeing). I had a real difficult time relating to it because I've never experienced it. And it was something very foreign to me ... Let's see, how can I put it into words? It was like hearing words and not being able to understand them, but knowing that they were words. And before you'd never heard anything. But it was something new, something you'd not been able to previously attach any meaning to.

Source: http://www.ascensionearth2012.org/20...ring-near.html (http://www.ascensionearth2012.org/2014/05/people-born-blind-can-see-during-near.html)

Nice read. It was interesting… but that’s about it. Imho, there are a few glaring details leading to a few inconsistencies… I copied and pasted a few of the text below.

“As you will see, apart from the fact that Vicki was not able to discern color during her experience, the account of her NDE is absolutely indistinguishable from those with intact visual systems.”
“I think I was wearing the plain gold band on my right ring finger and my father's wedding ring next to it. But my wedding ring I definitely saw ... That was the one I noticed the most because it's most unusual. It has orange blossoms on the corners of it.”

She cannot discern color… yet, she was able to recognize the color of “Gold”, and "Orange Blossoms"… on the corner of a ring... she has never actually SAW before. Hmmm…


“Vicki told Dr. Ring she found herself floating above her body in the emergency room of a hospital”
“I knew it was me ... I was pretty thin then. I was quite tall and thin at that point. And I recognized at first that it was a body, but I didn't even know that it was mine initially.” “Then I perceived that I was up on the ceiling, and I thought, "Well, that's kind of weird. What am I doing up here?"

She never saw anything before, but in this instance... see can easily and quickly tell what a ceiling is, and not only does she knows what a body looks like…she knew it was hers....viewing it from the ceiling (not touching but observing). Hmmm…

"rolled out" to find herself lying on grass. She was surrounded by trees and flowers and a vast number of people.”

Hmmmm, she never saw grass before but knew she landed on it....
Ok, maybe she felt grass before…but how is she so sure she was surrounded by trees, flowers, people…instead of something that may feel like trees, flowers, and people. After all she was never able to see any of that beforehand? There’s also no mention of any interaction…just observation on her part. So how does she know... without prior experience of observation?

“And no longer children, but, as Vicki phrased it, "in their prime."

Never saw them in her life (as children) but now she could identify them in their prime…and after death? Hmmm...

Honestly, from what I've gather...
I think she was dreaming, and the medication help the whole experience to seem/feel real.
Furthermore...this is just another unconfirmed testimony written/told in a way to appear authentic. Such a case would be very popular and inspiring… instead of lying in obscurity with little substance to actually support it...so what was the true purpose of the article...providing evidence or probability?

To be clear...I do have my own reasons for believing in the afterlife, but I rather keep those beliefs personal until rationale, and evidence can be shared on a personal level. If not…I’ll just be making irresponsible attempts at promoting something I’ve myself yet to understand or can express properly to beings of intellect. I respect people way more than I may show…so when I give anything to anyone...I want to make sure it’s real, collaborative, and easily recognized as proof. Again, Thanks for sharing

Peace

[Mike]

Shamans speak of souls fracturing into smaller units when confronted with too much trauma. They have a process called "soul retrieval" to remedy this.

So perhaps the soul is vulnerable in some ways..

But is it vulnerable to capture? Permanent capture? I seriously doubt it. I prefer to give our creator a little more credit than that.

The soul itself is much larger than we could ever imagine. Perhaps parts of it are compromised in some ways from time to time..

I think the concept of soul capturing and the idea of avoiding the light after death are almost on par with the flat earth thing. Of course I dont know for certain what happens after death, but we can be fairly certain(or as certain as we're gonna be) due to the thousands upon thousands of bits of anecdotal evidence...and all the research done by intelligent, well meaning people. It seems quite clear to me. But all it takes is one Simon quote and everyone is swayed. All it takes is one ridiculous comment by john leer about soul sucking moon stations and all that testimony goes right out the window...

Very weird

[seah]

Ah, but Lear later backtracked, after coming out with his "just live without envy hate or greed..."he encouraged all to go to the light. :)

[boardinguy10]

I finally found the right post for a good starting point for my first post. First thing, to me this idea of soul trap or capture would have been unheard of and easily discarded years ago. Currently it's my main focus because to me if it's true then it shows just how pervasive the control system has become. I remember reading Dr Newtons books a several years ago and found them fascinating. It wasn't until a Project Camelot interview with James from the Wingmakers and the idea of a potential control system so pervasive and so all encompassing that we as humans could be denied our connection to Source. Now ultimately I don't believe that's possible and the previously mentioned material can be considered suspect, however the point is it shocked me and created a shift in my thinking.

Flash forward to Wes Penre's material to the entire Horus Ra thread to Truman Cash's books. I would even dare to say if soul capture is possible then maybe forced reincarnation is as well. Think for a moment that if(hypothetically) we go into the light and as others have already stated, we see loved ones and or religious figures that beckon us while we are infused with love and light, then game over. Memory wiped and reincarnation occurs and we have to start from scratch, hoping the right set of circumstances will allow for optimum soul growth etc. I used to be a firm believer in reincarnation until recently and I'm not so sure that it has to be a "Universal Principle" we were always led to believe. This is certainly not meant to discount anybody's personal experiences to the contrary. I had a friend who used to tell me fascinating stories about how while in meditation he had access to some past life experiences. What if it's another layer of a very sophisticated system that keeps us reincarnating over and over for maximum control and loosh. This is what I'm grappling with. I'm still trying to fit Dr. Malanga's work into my constantly expanding ideas about reality.

To sum up an already wordy 1st post I'm reading everything I can on this subject and using my intuition to the best of my ability and Avalon has been invaluable for my learning curve.

[greybeard]

Well perhaps the me can be captured---is that desired?

When you find out, discover, uncover, that you are not the body, not the persona, not a separate entity, what is there to be concerned about?

Thoughts are very powerful in this world of duality --just be careful what you want to believe--it just might happen.

Maya the cosmic dream is very real but it is an illusion.

Chris

[DNA]

I think the concept of soul capturing and the idea of avoiding the light after death are almost on par with the flat earth thing. Of course I dont know for certain what happens after death, but we can be fairly certain(or as certain as we're gonna be) due to the thousands upon thousands of bits of anecdotal evidence...and all the research done by intelligent, well meaning people. It seems quite clear to me. But all it takes is one Simon quote and everyone is swayed. All it takes is one ridiculous comment by john leer about soul sucking moon stations and all that testimony goes right out the window...
I agree with your comparison. That is pretty spot on as far as I can say.
I understand folks state that L Ron Hubbard was shown some specific information about a soul being capable of being trapped when he was working for the NAVY and doing these deep hypnotic sessions on folks. But, I have got to think that Michael Newton has done a hell of a lot more work in this area, and Newton gets folks so deep they remember the inbetween lives moment. They remember leaving the body, going through the tunnel of light, and even the specifics of being in the "other" world before they are born again. Simon doesn't sway me as his information feels "gathered" to me. John Lear, he actually sways me. I know John Lear seems out there but he has a decent basis for some of his information regarding this.


Ah, but Lear later backtracked, after coming out with his "just live without envy hate or greed..."he encouraged all to go to the light. :)

Regardless of what John Lear states in so far as recanting his statements, I think it is important to note where he got this information.

John Lear states that there is a soul catcher on the moon. He states that this came from Bob Lazar at Area 51, this from when Bob Lazar had access to something called the yellow book at Area 51. Project Yellow book was supposed to be a top secret government document that you had to have an extremely high clearance to read. John Lear goes on to say a picture presented by Richard C. Hoagland of the moon shows a 7 mile structure toped with a huge black cube, this in an area of the moon known as the Sinus Medi.
It is speculated by John Lear that this structure with the huge black cube is in fact some kind of soul trap.

I would blow this sh!t off, but there are some strange correlations here. Linda Moulton Howe has recently told a story in an interview about how she was told an abduction story concerning a hand held black cube used to extract someone's soul store it in the black cube and then place the soul into another body.

Dr. Karla Turner wrote a series of books documenting abduction cases where people describe a classic tall grey using a hand held black cube to remove a soul from a persons body, store the soul and then place the soul in a newer body that had been cloned, this indistinguishable from the original.

[seah]

I'm pretty sure this site was posted in another thread, maybe Terragun's...http://www.trickedbythelight.com/tbtl/light.shtml
It has much worthwhile information about the tricky light voyage. Also, I think it is him that mentions Newton unwillingly describing a soul farm. I wonder if you have read some of it, DNA?

on the hypnosis topic, I've come across some interesting dialogue between Dolores Cannon and entities speaking through her subjects that flat out claims that those people under hypnosis will not say anything to Cannon that the entities don't want to be known.

From my way of thinking, once an idea goes mainstream, commonly in films, it is suspect. Do you remember, Poltergeist and Ghost? They are acclimating us every step of the away. It's insidious, how the propaganda machine works.

[Hervé]

... one may also wonder why an Ingo Swann had to be retrieved presto from his exploration of the dark side of the moon... as in called back to his body on earth (see his book "Penetration").

[RunningDeer]

I'm pretty sure this site was posted in another thread, maybe Terragun's...
Thanks, seah. Lots of information. I followed your link and grabbed these which some include mp3 and/or Podcast (http://crazzfiles.com/the-game-of-life-death-with-wayne-bush/), transcripts and a vid.


Tricked by the Light (http://www.trickedbythelight.com/tbtl/index.html): How Souls are Programmed to go to the moon/sun at Death to be Recycled as Energy

Transcripts notes - “Wayne Bush -- Interview with a Near Death Experiencer Who Met A Demiurge (http://www.trickedbythelight.com/tbtl/nde-transcript.html)."

Transcript notes - Wayne Bush 2nd Interview with Adam Crabb (http://www.trickedbythelight.com/tbtl/Adams2ndShowNotes.html) -- 4/22/2016

Article: THE GAME OF LIFE a.k.a. “LIFE” IS A GAME (http://crazzfiles.com/the-game-of-life-death-with-wayne-bush/)



Wayne Bush | The Archontic Human Farm,
Culture Control & The Sun/Moon Harvesting System
rB5OYefGTHs

[Mike]

*We must alert Paula asap that her account has been hijacked and that some very lovely woman has posted a pic of herself that resembles a young and beautiful Linda Kozlowski from the Crocodile Dundee movies*

:sun:

[RunningDeer]

*We must alert Paula asap that her account has been hijacked and that some very lovely woman has posted a pic of herself that resembles a young and beautiful Linda Kozlowski from the Crocodile Dundee movies*

:sun:
Blushing but appreciative, Mike….:heart:

It was a toss up between that and this. I blur and fade them so no one sees the added years. My fear is someday, I’ll run into someone that’ll say, “Pardon me for staring but you look like an older version of that RunningDeer @ Project Avalon.”


http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Recovered/bliss_zpstdsixjgz.GIF
http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Recovered/bathroom_zpszll4urzg.JPG

[Hym]

I do agree about your new pic, RD.
Since some of us are here to capture the essence of our own soul and bring it into our present awareness, so that we may enjoy the many souls we encounter in this lifetime, it is interesting to see how we see each other thru our pictures.

Here is a clue about something I have done for years when I see a picture of anyone, especially someone with such a strong, loving presence as our Running Dear.

Cover up one side of the face and remember the impression of the side you see.
Cover up the other side and soak in the side now revealed. Remember this too.
Now notice the difference. Does that tell you anything about the image you see?

[raregem]

lol Mike...cute...
Running Dear(oops..DEER) I like your latest photo. Am I seeing things or is there a face/entity on the left side bangs ? I thought I was seeing a miniature version of you....at first.
Re: Souls captured?
I wonder still at the possibility considering a human can have their memories transferred to another being or clone.. I think this is correct but I wonder.... Is the soul captured at this point, as well?
We "'sell" our souls in return our dreams are fulfilled. This is completed through the dark arts and their "god". Is the soul really captured at this point?

[RunningDeer]

I do agree about your new pic, RD.
Since some of us are here to capture the essence of our own soul and bring it into our present awareness, so that we may enjoy the many souls we encounter in this lifetime, it is interesting to see how we see each other thru our pictures.

Here is a clue about something I have done for years when I see a picture of anyone, especially someone with such a strong, loving presence as our Running Dear.

Cover up one side of the face and remember the impression of the side you see.
Cover up the other side and soak in the side now revealed. Remember this too.
Now notice the difference. Does that tell you anything about the image you see?

Thank you, Hym {insert blushing smilie here}

I tried the exercise. It’s hard to be objective.
What I see is an asymmetrical face.
One eye larger than the other.
An ET.


lol Mike...cute...
Running Dear(oops..DEER) I like your latest photo. Am I seeing things or is there a face/entity on the left side bangs ? I thought I was seeing a miniature version of you....at first.
Thank you, rare gem. Funny you said that about the ET. Before I read yours, I posted that I look like an ET in that picture. What you see on the side is a busy print shower curtain.


:offtopic:

[Mike]

Paula thats why I have Bukowski as my avatar....it subconsciously creates low expectations(even tho most people are clear that its not me)...so if I were to be seen, no matter how bad I look, it will exceed expectations(yes, clever..I know;))

But I have had people pm me to ask if thats really me:ROFL:. Ive had other people pm me to ask me politely to change my avatar....they found Buk *that* revolting. Call me crazy, but I actually think he's kinda handsome in an unconventional humphrey bogart/ jack nicholson kinda way..

Hym, I find one side of Paula's face to be open and enthusiastic and caring...and the other to be discerning, slightly skeptical, and not to be trifled with.

Anyhoo, back on topic:focus:

[RunningDeer]

Paula thats why I have Bukowski as my avatar....it subconsciously creates low expectations(even tho most people are clear that its not me)...so if I were to be seen, no matter how bad I look, it will exceed expectations(yes, clever..I know;))

But I have had people pm me to ask if thats really me:ROFL:. Ive had other people pm me to ask me politely to change my avatar....they found Buk *that* revolting. Call me crazy, but I actually think he's kinda handsome in an unconventional humphrey bogart/ jack nicholson kinda way..

Hym, I find one side of Paula's face to be open and enthusiastic and caring...and the other to be discerning, slightly skeptical, and not to be trifled with.

Anyhoo, back on topic:focus:
I think your avatar pic is handsome. Weathered...in a lived a lotta life, kinda way. Your perception's pretty darn, darn, darn close.

I send out my apologies to you, DNA and the other thread posters here. Blame Mike. He stared it. Feel free to delete my posts.

http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Recovered/rose_zpsd1xmxedv.GIF

http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Recovered/smileys-smiley-with-sign-165726_zpsib04wklr.GIF

[Hym]

Hey, Running Dear. (yes Dear, per my discretion and outlook of you, if you don't mind..) Your earlier avatar is more revealing and shows a more open right eye, left to us, which shows your present outlook, your outward projection. The left shows the seriousness of the past, the intensity and the travels.

Your present picture changes that. I don't hold onto that either way and choose to see others much more openly than merely a picture. If your new avatar shows your present outlook, without revealing such asymmetry as your previous one, it is a very healthy projection.

Mike, I thought we were totally on topic. Your evaluation of the difference in the sides of her face were interesting and insightful.
I like the pic of Bukky, BukO, too and I also do the low expectations thing myself, saying I'm smaller and fatter and more beastly than I really am.

[Mike]

I must admit here: the topic of soul capture triggers an emotional response from me.

I get irritated when people suggest its possible...

..no doubt it interferes with any objectivity I may have had coming in..

I don't know why I have that response. Maybe its because I just dont wanna believe it.

Theres another part of me that is just exasperated. It sorta thinks: are we going to take the conspiracy bit *that* far??? Can't we please stop somewhere? Arent there *any* certainties??? Is nothing holy anymore?

As humans we all need a point of relativity...a rock, so to speak. For some people its religion. For some its this...others that. Without this point, we just kind of flail in the wind....or at least I do..

..I need SOMETHING to grab on to...

I prefer to think a soul can't be captured. It's something I choose to believe because of a) all the anecdotal evidence and b) to believe otherwise might launch me into an existential crisis...

It's my point of relativity. My rock. And from this angle I see things a certain way. Tilt the hologram just slightly one way or another and everything looks different..

If the soul can be captured, then God himself/herself must be vulnerable as well. If this is true, everything unravels for me..

In other words, it doesnt really serve me in any way to hold that thought...so I don't.

[Hym]

I hope this is not too offensive, offensive to having a little bit of fun with some friends, but maybe a bit back on topic....

It is common to many native cultures to not allow a picture to be taken of the body while it is alive, as a means of protecting the soul from being captured. I am aware of some truth in this, amongst the higher possibility that the belief is based on an ancient manipulation of sorts, because of all I have seen in the practice of radionics and the quantum reality as a means of explaining the dynamics of one soul looking out into the world capturing the essence of those energies it sees. "Seeing" as being in control of the re-creation and validation of an object in the movement of the now.

There does seem to be an electromagnetic component to the machinery that attempts to do that which should never be contemplated, in a universe where humans and other sentient beings reside. Whether or not one views this earthly living as a complex hologram or an infinite, timeless space, it is at times like this that we are aware that one singular individual as an archetype of the whole can affect the course of an entire world. This is why many of us rebel against the mere idea of soul capture. Just the thought of it should tell us volumes about the nature of the realities we spend some time and place in.

If this is true, the existence of this cold machinery capable of removing even the memory of love, how does anyone take on the task of removing it for the safety of future generations? This existential angst is removed when the mere thought of the soul's existence affirms itself, creating the base line for a meaningful life.

Be yourself and know that you have a right, until you take it away from yourself, to freely express your soul's beauty.

Alluding to an earlier focus of this thread, understanding the sacral energetic system, sacral being akin to sacred, and the experience of removing desire and controlling the autonomic nervous system at the same time gives an automatic and transcendent freedom to explore the dimensions of the soul, in and out of time. Somewhere this was taught openly, in a place where sensation and organic immersion existed at the same time as the quantum reality of travel, inter-spatial journeys.

[greybeard]

Honestly if you believe in an omnipotent omnipresent "God" where is the concern?
Anything that comes from fear is not real-is not of God according to ACIM (A Course in Miracles)

The human psyche appears to have a need to believe in the scary.
As children we are fed on "Little red riding hoods big bad wolf" and similar.
I used to have nightmares relevant to these stories at an early age---they seemed very real.

So why propagate stories about soul capture?
In who's interest is it to keep the human race in fear?
Is fear not one of the best tools of control?
People will do things out of fear that goes well beyond the bounds of "normal" behaviour.
Wars are fought out of fear.
So if you want to go to war/justify the expense of producing weapons of mass destruction, for our defence of course, then keep the population in fear anyway you can.
We have enough to contend with in the here and now without having stories about what negative things can/may happen after the death of the body.

chris

[DNA]

I must admit here: the topic of soul capture triggers an emotional response from me.


I get irritated when people suggest its possible...

I hear you, myself as well. As a matter of fact, this thread was originally named "A Soul Can Not Be Captured". I'm not sure why Bill felt the need to change the name. I've never had a thread name changed before this. I understand that the name of the thread runs contrary to Bill's own views on the subject. It may be that seeing a contrary opinion on the matter irritates him as much as the reverse does our selves. :tinfoil3:
Upon reflection, I would like to see the name of the thread go back to it's original. I'm going to message the mod team and see what happens. It doesn't hurt to ask. :coffee:

Back to the topic.
:focus:
I don't mind discussing the issue. And in fact I invite dialogue on the matter, because I'm of the opinion that there is a parasitic dark mafia out there if you will, of soul syphoning grease trap dwelling entities that exist for the sole purpose of taking that which is not theirs.
The problem there in lies with our limited conception of what is going on, and in a loaded vocabulary filled with false complete definitions of certain words.
I've never had a decent discourse with anyone on this forum in so far as it relates to the subtle energy bodies associated with our soul and body.
I've brought this up numerous times.
It was my main thrust in the opening of this thread.
And yet I've never had a dialogue on the subject with anyone wishing clarification on the matter or wishing to add something to the matter.
As for myself, it is so obvious that this is the case, I'm in awe that no one wishes to further this line of thinking.
I've said it before and I will say it again, the confusion over this whole question lies in the mortality of those energy bodies and the immortality of the soul.
For more on this see the opening of this thread.


..no doubt it interferes with any objectivity I may have had coming in..

I don't know why I have that response. Maybe its because I just dont wanna believe it.

I think your instincts are good. It makes life and the world as dark and as meaningless as can be. I believe the process of true learning is cutting away the lies we have been conned into believing since we were born.
When that happens, we begin to realize that the truth was always accessible and available. :sun:


Theres another part of me that is just exasperated. It sorta thinks: are we going to take the conspiracy bit *that* far??? Can't we please stop somewhere? Arent there *any* certainties??? Is nothing holy anymore?

As humans we all need a point of relativity...a rock, so to speak.
I absolutely agree here as well. And I think there are other topics here that bring up a similar feeling. For years I couldn't believe or expose myself to all of the MKULTRA stuff. I mean when you start to really go down the rabbit hole it's disturbing on so many levels.


For some people its religion. For some its this...others that. Without this point, we just kind of flail in the wind....or at least I do..

..I need SOMETHING to grab on to...

I prefer to think a soul can't be captured. It's something I choose to believe because of a) all the anecdotal evidence and b) to believe otherwise might launch me into an existential crisis...

It's my point of relativity. My rock. And from this angle I see things a certain way. Tilt the hologram just slightly one way or another and everything looks different..

If the soul can be captured, then God himself/herself must be vulnerable as well. If this is true, everything unravels for me..

In other words, it doesnt really serve me in any way to hold that thought...so I don't.

Amen :highfive::clapping:

[Hervé]

[...]
... this thread was originally named "A Soul Can Not Be Captured". I'm not sure why Bill felt the need to change the name....
[...]

See post # 14
(http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52785-Can-a-Soul-be-Captured&p=1060780&viewfull=1#post1060780)

[seah]

All great additions to thread, thanks, RunningDeer. Additionally, regarding Lear's statements and retraction, we have good indication that his change in pov is actually disinformation/misinformation. It may have been around 2011 that he went public with a revamped message, “I try to live with integrity; and without envy, hate or greed”, which is fine in and of itself, but he was on GLP daily adding other odds and ends that were suspect, such as this "As to what caused me to change my mind on the 'light' was sleepers ...", but of course, he's a self professed "nutbag", so don't take him too seriously, is his message.

[seah]

I hope this is not too offensive, offensive to having a little bit of fun with some friends, but maybe a bit back on topic....

It is common to many native cultures to not allow a picture to be taken of the body while it is alive, as a means of protecting the soul from being captured. I am aware of some truth in this, amongst the higher possibility that the belief is based on an ancient manipulation of sorts, because of all I have seen in the practice of radionics and the quantum reality as a means of explaining the dynamics of one soul looking out into the world capturing the essence of those energies it sees. "Seeing" as being in control of the re-creation and validation of an object in the movement of the now.

There does seem to be an electromagnetic component to the machinery that attempts to do that which should never be contemplated, in a universe where humans and other sentient beings reside. Whether or not one views this earthly living as a complex hologram or an infinite, timeless space, it is at times like this that we are aware that one singular individual as an archetype of the whole can affect the course of an entire world. This is why many of us rebel against the mere idea of soul capture. Just the thought of it should tell us volumes about the nature of the realities we spend some time and place in.

If this is true, the existence of this cold machinery capable of removing even the memory of love, how does anyone take on the task of removing it for the safety of future generations? This existential angst is removed when the mere thought of the soul's existence affirms itself, creating the base line for a meaningful life.

Be yourself and know that you have a right, until you take it away from yourself, to freely express your soul's beauty.

Alluding to an earlier focus of this thread, understanding the sacral energetic system, sacral being akin to sacred, and the experience of removing desire and controlling the autonomic nervous system at the same time gives an automatic and transcendent freedom to explore the dimensions of the soul, in and out of time. Somewhere this was taught openly, in a place where sensation and organic immersion existed at the same time as the quantum reality of travel, inter-spatial journeys.

your post brought up a memory that I had totally forgotten. It seems I was born with an inexplicable phobia of cameras, as a child I refused to have my picture taken, so most of my youngest pictures are of me attempting to run from being 'captured' by camera or hiding my face. The phobia begun to subside around age six.

[seah]

Honestly if you believe in an omnipotent omnipresent "God" where is the concern?
Anything that comes from fear is not real-is not of God according to ACIM (A Course in Miracles)

The human psyche appears to have a need to believe in the scary.
As children we are fed on "Little red riding hoods big bad wolf" and similar.
I used to have nightmares relevant to these stories at an early age---they seemed very real.

So why propagate stories about soul capture?
In who's interest is it to keep the human race in fear?
Is fear not one of the best tools of control?
People will do things out of fear that goes well beyond the bounds of "normal" behaviour.
Wars are fought out of fear.
So if you want to go to war/justify the expense of producing weapons of mass destruction, for our defence of course, then keep the population in fear anyway you can.
We have enough to contend with in the here and now without having stories about what negative things can/may happen after the death of the body.

chris

I hear you, but Chris, we "propagate" stories about end times and god, as an external entity and presidential candidates
as though the process had any validity.

I don't fear the light, now that I have the knowledge, I have power. Before knowledge, is when I lived in fear.

[greybeard]

Honestly if you believe in an omnipotent omnipresent "God" where is the concern?
Anything that comes from fear is not real-is not of God according to ACIM (A Course in Miracles)

The human psyche appears to have a need to believe in the scary.
As children we are fed on "Little red riding hoods big bad wolf" and similar.
I used to have nightmares relevant to these stories at an early age---they seemed very real.

So why propagate stories about soul capture?
In who's interest is it to keep the human race in fear?
Is fear not one of the best tools of control?
People will do things out of fear that goes well beyond the bounds of "normal" behaviour.
Wars are fought out of fear.
So if you want to go to war/justify the expense of producing weapons of mass destruction, for our defence of course, then keep the population in fear anyway you can.
We have enough to contend with in the here and now without having stories about what negative things can/may happen after the death of the body.

chris

I hear you, but Chris, we "propagate" stories about end times and god, as an external entity and presidential candidates
as though the process had any validity.

I don't fear the light, now that I have the knowledge, I have power. Before knowledge, is when I lived in fear.

Yes I agree--my God is Self---not external or separate in any way and in that knowledge there is freedom from fear.

Best wishes
Chris

[RunningDeer]

Switched out post with fresh air.

http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Windows/open_wide_zpsa78cbcfd.JPG

:heart:

[Hervé]

I am fairly convinced that a soul can be "zombified" if not "captured" if only from that Ingo Swann adventure on the other side of the moon: an out of body Ingo got spotted and chased around... Gurdjieff also warned about that moon.

A key ingredient to fully comprehend and understand how such thing can happen is hypnosis and its use with which a human being - in or out of body - can be made to believe ANYTHING! ... even that the moon is made of green cheese or that the earth is flat.

I often refer to the "Third Man In The Room (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68916-Don-t-go-into-the-light-Discussion-thread&p=806378&viewfull=1#post806378)" experiment to demonstrate how anyone can be hypnotized and made to see or not see/perceive actual 3D physicality.

I also refer to the "Toilet Flushers (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59804-My-Almost-Zero-Success-At-Awakening-People-Advice-Needed&p=683950&viewfull=1#post683950)" who - on cue - automatically behave a certain way and always that same way without fail! Imagine what a post-hypnotic command of "No-no-no: chemtrails don't exist!"... or "Souls cannot be captured! We re all free-will sovereign beings!" or "We lost the war and we are all captured and slaves forever and ever!" for that matter...

So the main question then boils down to: "Whose universe is a zombified soul living in?" Well that's the universe of the hypnotist where ET cannot perform abductions because they don't exist, see?! (Third Man in the Room (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68916-Don-t-go-into-the-light-Discussion-thread&p=806378&viewfull=1#post806378))

Beings in the grip of someone else's universe can be very convincing:


Belief and the Powers of the Mind
Before my days at the monastery, I was attending a university (To make a long story short, I flunked high school, was expelled, supposedly had a genius I.Q., and ended up in college instead). In one of my classes, the professor gave a hypnosis demonstration. I witnessed people who were so well “hypnotized”, that when they were told that a burning cigar was being touched to the palm of their hand, blisters instantly appeared (even though only an unlit cigar was touched to their hand).

But as the years have gone by in my life, I have witnessed far more amazing and strange things. Believe it or not - it really doesn’t matter to me.

I have seen objects moved with thought. I’ve seen hand-to-hand combat, where no flesh ever made contact. I’ve seen bodies tossed about like rag dolls by energies invisible to the “normal” human eye. I’ve seen people with bad cuts stop bleeding by “thinking it so”. I’ve seen people stop their heart, and stop breathing, without dying. I’ve seen monks in the Himalayas, sit in the snow, in conditions that were so cold that as they were wrapped in wet blankets, the blankets froze around them.

After many layers of blankets were applied, the monks would visualize heat within themselves, radiating out. The blankets would defrost, and a circle of melted snow would appear around them. Their degree of mental accomplishment was measured by the size of the circle around them. And I’ve seen far more.

The “hypnosis demonstrations” in college, were mysterious and remarkable enough, but after witnessing the monks melting the ice, I asked Zain how such things were done. After having me read what was called “The Tibetan Treatise of Psychic Heat”, he began teaching me all the details of the power of the mind. It began with this discussion:

“Your beliefs control and affect the incredible powers of the mind, which dictate,
or influence, many things in your life...

Excerpted from: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/children-lawofone-lost-teachings-atlantis.pdf... so may be there is something to this “Everyday in every way, I am getting better and better” (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-and-Ron-s-Org&p=962471&viewfull=1#post962471)

Anyway, many a researcher have warned about "screen/false/overlaid memories" (Turner, Bartholic, Lorgen, Bartley, Truman Cash (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52786-MATRIX-REVEALED-Analysis-Solutions), etc...)and so has this guy (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90205-Jimmy-Church-w-David-Jacobs-PhD-Alien-Abduction-and-Hubrids&p=1062731&viewfull=1#post1062731):


O-JcZ5svvw0

Where he summarizes the whole operation with his "Three Pillars":


It’s secretive/clandestine



It’s global



It’s inter-generational.

[Wind]

My body can be destroyed, my mind can be distorted. My Self is eternal and untouchable.

[Mike]

Hey Marcus, I don't mind discussing the issue either. Not at all. I hope I didnt give the impression otherwise.

I find that you always start the coolest threads..and this is one.

Just wanna make that clear. I'm emotional about it, and I have a pretty strong opinion one way, but it's absolutely 100% a valid discussion imho. I find most of the responses to be very intriguing.

[DNA]

Hey Marcus, I don't mind discussing the issue either. Not at all. I hope I didnt give the impression otherwise.

I find that you always start the coolest threads..and this is one.

Just wanna make that clear. I'm emotional about it, and I have a pretty strong opinion one way, but it's absolutely 100% a valid discussion imho. I find most of the responses to be very intriguing.

I'm emotional about it too, and I'm betting we have a very similar feel on this. I've developed a bit of detachment in order to discuss the particulars with folks so to be able to talk folks out of this trendy way of thinking.

Really I'm cat fishing in a way. I'm throwing out the bait which is a particular piece that backs up this topic, so as I can reel them into the light. :sun: LOL I don't know why, but that really cracked me up. :sun:
How about this,,,
For folks who are convinced the light is a trap, and that you plan on not allowing yourself to go to it, what is your alternative?
That is my question, what is your alternative to the light?

If folks will refer to my original opening for this thread, I give my 2 cents in what I think happens to folks who do not allow themselves to travel the tunnel of light. But I'll go there again.

We as human beings are made up of fine energy bodies as well as a physical body. These fine energy bodies are very much needed while we are alive. But, these fine energy bodies are for the most part mistreated by "us" due to certain maneuvers that have been performed against us. If we are capable of awakening these energy bodies we "perceive" through them and see things that are also made of that density. But this is rare and takes a lot of work by those of us who are just looking for a "peak". As far as I know, folks fail for the must part to awaken and maintain these energy bodies. It is just amazingly hard and the forces aligned against us will make personal appearances should you gain a modicum of success in awakening your energy bodies.

Our energy bodies are delicious to these folks I'm alluding to. They taste good to milk while we are alive and they taste great in the flesh after we are dead. These energy bodies are quite sought after.

When we die we leave these energy bodies behind, for they are part of the mortal coil just as our bodies are. But our immortal soul moves on.

Now here is the deal with folks who do not move on. They are souls without energy bodies and this causes them to no longer receive nourishment from source-(God). So, they are forced to become parasites themselves and feed on the energy bodies of the living.
This is Universal.
And I'm not quoting something out of a book.
For details concerning experiences in this area go here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21695-How-To-See-A-Ghost-For-Yourself). And here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21614-Parasitic-Non-Organic-Multidimensional-Beings).

¤=[Post Update]=¤



[...]
... this thread was originally named "A Soul Can Not Be Captured". I'm not sure why Bill felt the need to change the name....
[...]

See post # 14
(http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52785-Can-a-Soul-be-Captured&p=1060780&viewfull=1#post1060780)

I'm in disagreement with the rationale given for changing the name of the thread and I would like to see the name changed back to it's original as I've already requested to the mod team.

[Arcturian108]

Without commenting on the philosophical discussions of this thread, I have had more than 20 years of experience with the aid of guides in moving souls both in and out of bodies for the benefit of the individuals involved. If you want to know more read Your Multiple Souls, recently published and available on Amazon.

[Mike]

Without commenting on the philosophical discussions of this thread, I have had more than 20 years of experience with the aid of guides in moving souls both in and out of bodies for the benefit of the individuals involved. If you want to know more read Your Multiple Souls, recently published and available on Amazon.



With all that experience, why wouldnt you comment on the philosophical discussion here?:)

I'd really like to hear what you have to say.

[Arcturian108]

In response to Mike's request for me to give some of my opinions on the nature of the soul, here is an excerpt from my book:

"I see the soul as an energetic envelope, separate from the body, and distinct from God. It is physically larger than the body of any sentient being. Energy implies materiality, and thus I take a middle position between those who reduce the soul to matter and those who inflate the soul to God. This energy envelope surrounds the body like a cloud, or mist, which in some points is attached to the body—indicative of more complete absorption in those locations. The materialists are partly correct when they try to place the soul inside of the body. The soul is attached to parts of the body, but which parts may vary from person to person.

This localized connection may explain why particular attributes of an individual, i.e. “brilliant mind,” “beautiful heart,” may actually have their foundation in soul energy highlighting these particular areas."

The reason I didn't choose to comment more last night was that is was late my time, and also I have so much experience working with souls that my opinions are less malleable than those of others on this thread, or on this forum.

[pueblo]

Hope this is not too much OT, but I draw a distinction between the Soul and the Spirit (Divine Spark), the latter being that kernel of Divine Essence (which not everyone has by the way), which is synonymous with, and of the same 'material' as Source.

I am interested in peoples views on Soul v Spirit.

[RunningDeer]

In response to Mike's request for me to give some of my opinions on the nature of the soul, here is an excerpt from my book:

"I see the soul as an energetic envelope, separate from the body, and distinct from God. It is physically larger than the body of any sentient being. Energy implies materiality, and thus I take a middle position between those who reduce the soul to matter and those who inflate the soul to God. This energy envelope surrounds the body like a cloud, or mist, which in some points is attached to the body—indicative of more complete absorption in those locations. The materialists are partly correct when they try to place the soul inside of the body. The soul is attached to parts of the body, but which parts may vary from person to person.

This localized connection may explain why particular attributes of an individual, i.e. “brilliant mind,” “beautiful heart,” may actually have their foundation in soul energy highlighting these particular areas."

The reason I didn't choose to comment more last night was that is was late my time, and also I have so much experience working with souls that my opinions are less malleable than those of others on this thread, or on this forum.


Without commenting on the philosophical discussions of this thread, I have had more than 20 years of experience with the aid of guides in moving souls both in and out of bodies for the benefit of the individuals involved. If you want to know more read Your Multiple Souls, recently published and available on Amazon.

I hope you don’t mind me adding this information, Arcturian108. If so I’ll delete.

Your Multiple Souls - How They Direct Your Creativity, Genius, Complexity, and Moods (http://www.amazon.com/Your-Multiple-Souls-Creativity-Complexity/dp/1421837242?ie=UTF8&keywords=Your%20Multiple%20Souls&qid=1462487453&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1), by Ruth Rendely.

A video from Ruth Rendely's YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/RuthSeraph/videos) also the audio (http://ruthrendely.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/INTERVIEW_MONOMP3_56_BIT.mp3) found on her website called, The Nature of Soul (http://ruthrendely.com/nature-of-soul).


The Multiple Soul Theory

20Ox6Yf0HV4

Published on Apr 4, 2015

This discussion of the theory of multiple souls was part of a radio interview that took place in 2002 in Sydney, Australia. The theory it presents is the basis of the book shown in the image that was published in March of 2015. The book presents the theory in depth and includes many case studies involving multiple-souled people. The complete healing of depression in individuals who have been long-suffering is one of the main reasons to know about this theory.

[greybeard]

With respect for various experiences.

In Maya (Illusion--the cosmic dream) all things are possible.

The enlightened mystics for thousands of years have uniformly stated--there is "Only One Without a Second" , that is very clear--one soul, one Self.
One soul can not be captured--there is nothing separate to capture, be captured.
This is ultimate reality--according to Mystics.

So this can be believed or not believed.

Eckhart Tolle quote "There was never anyone there to do anything to you."

Chris

[greybeard]

With respect for duality.
It is my temporary state, as is the body my residence for the moment.

What If?

The One Self--that is formless, wanted to have experiences.

The experiences would have to be very real and as varied as possible-- so seemingly unique separate individuals were created.
All would have individual potential.
Some would be what we call evil some what we see as Saints.
The play would be ongoing---with the Self safe in the knowledge that nothing was happening to Self.

Some, seeming individuals, would come out of the dream state--awaken to the realisation of Self.
They would point the way out of the dream state maintained and held in place by ego.

So all experiences are valid and seem very real in duality. (Duality is more that one)

The Soul is not affected in anyway, is eternal, unchanging, Omni potent, Omni present.

What can capture that/this?

Not saying this is so.

Chris

[Michi]

Yes, greybeard - your hypothesis I would say is pretty much what happened.

And with this "games" were born. Games require opponents to win over. (Try to play a game against yourself - you'll pretty soon be bored.)

The problem is that games are also fun and addictive.

In regards to whether souls can be trapped is simple: When the soul is made to agree that it can be trapped, the soul believes it is trapped - even though it can't be in fact.

An interesting analogy is the elephant who gets tied with a rope around one of his legs to a pole when he is small. At this stage he is unable to pull out the pole.
He becomes accustomed and later when grown-up, he is still tied to the same size pole which he would be able to pull out without effort - but he doesn't even try!

[pueblo]

Yes, greybeard - your hypothesis I would say is pretty much what happened.

And with this "games" were born. Games require opponents to win over. (Try to play a game against yourself - you'll pretty soon be bored.)

The problem is that games are also fun and addictive.

In regards to whether souls can be trapped is simple: When the soul is made to agree that it can be trapped, the soul believes it is trapped - even though it can't be in fact.

An interesting analogy is the elephant who gets tied with a rope around one of his legs to a pole when he is small. At this stage is is unable to pull out the pole.
He becomes accustomed and later when grown-up, he is still tied to the same size pole which he would be able to pull out without effort - but he doesn't even try!

:)

https://womenwhohope.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/chains.jpg?w=734&h=599

[DNA]

All great additions to thread, thanks, RunningDeer. Additionally, regarding Lear's statements and retraction, we have good indication that his change in pov is actually disinformation/misinformation. It may have been around 2011 that he went public with a revamped message, “I try to live with integrity; and without envy, hate or greed”, which is fine in and of itself, but he was on GLP daily adding other odds and ends that were suspect, such as this "As to what caused me to change my mind on the 'light' was sleepers ...", but of course, he's a self professed "nutbag", so don't take him too seriously, is his message.

Seah you make excellent penetrating statements. So much so I find myself saying, hmph I've got to wait to respond to that on a day when I'm not bouncing my one year old on my lap.
But those moments are few and far in between. So here I go while she is taking a nap. :)


John Lear has been hugely influenced by a guy named Lou Baldin.
Lou is one of those guys who doesn't really have a huge following because his material does not fit into any preconceived mold about what is going on.
He's written a book or two.
I've tried getting into Lou a few times, but I've never done so to the extent I would like.
I think Lou would be a top notch interview for Kerry, and I hope she finds the time some day to do so.


Lou basically states that he remembers being abducted all through his life even as an infant and if I'm not correct, he remembers being a soul and being placed into his mother's womb by ET.
This is why his stuff rubs folks wrong. Baldin basically is saying that the ET we have come to know as the Tall grey are the administrators of this planet and this includes monitoring our entry into our bodies and our leaving our bodies.
The deal with the earth being a prison planet and the moon a soul recycling facility is all very Lou Baldin.


I've not had enough exposure to Baldin at this time to give you my take on him either way. He is very enigmatic though.
I get the feeling John Lear may have changed his take on Baldin, and that is all very fair, we all change our minds as time goes by.


Lear also seems to be changing his mind on the Apollo moon landings. He is now saying he no longer believes they happened.
This in contrast to his previous statements where as he would state it was his belief that there was a fourth "hidden" member of the crew not known to the general public for that "4th" member was in charge of handling a top secret exotic technology that was supposed to be helping the Apollo missions make their trips.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAluxiVsc4k
kAluxiVsc4k


Also Seah, you had mentioned this "As to what caused me to change my mind on the 'light' was sleepers ...",
This was probably Sleepers', because Lou Baldin is known as Sleeper on GLP.

[seah]

Being daddy trumps everything, DNA, good on you. I've put in my time reading sleeper and Lear threads till my eyes grew hazy, such was my need to get a grasp on what is what back in the early 2000's. Sleeper/Baldin is not letting much out of the bag from what I've come across, perhaps that is as it should be.
It does appear that some faction of alien acts as administrators to humanity on this planet to me, in fact, I suspect every single being on Earth is being 'abducted' at regular intervals throughout their life, something I agree with Lear about. I believe he claims it is at three, seven and eleven, or there about, which sounds about right to me, as per personal experiences.

The best we can do is to be true to ourselves while living our lives, the rest sorts itself out. The scenario of getting trapped on Earth is in my opinion ending with this life. We all needed to be here for the great event I hear is underway, then we are headed exactly where we each belong.

[greybeard]

We are born with the gift of curiosity.

As far as spiritual discovery goes there would seem to be a process.

As a younger seeker I was interested in many things that I now see as a distraction, but they served their purpose then.

The normal I found boring and kept looking for a secret truth---the more bizarre the better, bits and pieces discovered gave me an adrenalin rush and many hyper sleepless nights.

Eventually I found the truth I was looking for under my nose, so to speak--not out there --not separate, but within me.

I and everyone else is pure awareness.
It is permanent--you can not turn it of--it is always there.
You are aware of what you do--aware of what is going on--aware the moment you wake--and awareness carries on when you are asleep--it will alert, you, wake you, up if that is required.

You don't need anyone to tell you that you exist--you don't need a book or some one else's word for it--you are.
This is the eternal truth. That's what you are.
All the rest is the story which you witness.
As said in another post. that which you truly are is not affected by life---the buying into this story does affect the persona--the emotions and therefore the body.
If stories like soul capture are believed then it will eventually have an effect on your health--no one is immune to the effects of repeated exposure to the likes of this.

Just saying.

I'm not into love and light but there is a balance.
You can be aware that an iron is hot without touching it--you can be aware that some things/concepts are best left alone.

Chris

[Hervé]

[...]
... --not separate, but within me.

I and everyone else is pure awareness.
It is permanent--you can not turn it of--it is always there.
You are aware of what you do--aware of what is going on--
[...]
Chris


^^^ :confused: :confused: :confused: >>>




... aware the moment you wake--and awareness carries on
when you are asleep--it will alert, you, wake you, up if that is required.


A "pure" something is something whole, unmixed with something else, unalloyed, unaltered... right?

... then, how come IT wakes YOU up? and, in the first place, how come YOU - "pure awareness" - can fall asleep?

:silent:

[greybeard]

[...]
... --not separate, but within me.

I and everyone else is pure awareness.
It is permanent--you can not turn it of--it is always there.
You are aware of what you do--aware of what is going on--
[...]
Chris


^^^ :confused: :confused: :confused: >>>




... aware the moment you wake--and awareness carries on
when you are asleep--it will alert, you, wake you, up if that is required.


A "pure" something is something whole, unmixed with something else, unalloyed, unaltered... right?

... then, how come IT wakes YOU up? and, in the first place, how come YOU - "pure awareness" - can fall asleep?

:silent:



When you are discussing in duality then duality terms come in.
The me is not what I am in ultimate terms but the me in the dream goes to sleep and wakes up.

Ultimate truth does not sleep.

We are discussing something which the mind can not get--it can be pointed to though.

What is on the link--Mooji speaking of awareness may help.
I dont expect anyone to automatically take my word for anything.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-and-related-matters.&p=1066424&viewfull=1#post1066424

Chris

[greybeard]

In fairness Non-duality has a language/terms all of its own.
It just does not make sense in usual discussion.

For example--"There is no one left to claim enlightenment" (after that event).

"I am form--formless--both and neither"

"I am the totality, all of it"

"The Universe brings everything about"

" I am not the doer"

Its normal to come from a of place believing you are the body and just possibly something might survive after death.
Eventually after reading many books on Self Realisation/enlightenment comes the realisation that it may well be true that only God is and I am that---"I am that" is the name on an excellent book by Nisargadatta Maharaj.
All evidence seems to say that I am a unique individual.
However the books I mention from time to time all say the same thing--NDE point to the same thing.
Jesus said "The Father and I are One"

People are free to believe what they want--increasing numbers of people are coming to believe in non-duality.
Mooji has millions listening to the teachings that come through him--Eckhart Tolle and others the same.

Tim on his thread explains far better than I can. I will put the link below.

All this points to why I believe a soul can not be captured.

Chris

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43027-Enlightenment-A-direct-succinct-account-of-what-occurs...&p=456904&viewfull=1#post456904

[Ba-ba-Ra]

In regards to whether souls can be trapped is simple: When the soul is made to agree that it can be trapped, the soul believes it is trapped - even though it can't be in fact.

An interesting analogy is the elephant who gets tied with a rope around one of his legs to a pole when he is small. At this stage is is unable to pull out the pole.
He becomes accustomed and later when grown-up, he is still tied to the same size pole which he would be able to pull out without effort - but he doesn't even try!

:)

https://womenwhohope.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/chains.jpg?w=734&h=599[/QUOTE]


Love this picture. . . . and yes, allegedly a soul agrees to be in a body - so, one could perceive being in a body as trapped - and since we 'forgot' we agreed to being in this body, yet have become aware we are something more than a body, I suspect the now-aware soul can feel trapped.

Can the soul leave the body at will? I don't know.

Many, including myself have had OBE's but I don't know how it happened nor do I have the ability to create the experience at will.

Did my consciousness (or soul) create my body? So could I uncreate it? . . . or create a different or better one? And if so, does this all than go back to conscious manifesting? . and within that, how much of our free will do we have to manifest what we want?

[seah]

yes, allegedly a soul agrees to be in a body - so, one could perceive being in a body as trapped - and since we 'forgot' we agreed to being in this body, yet have become aware we are something more than a body, I suspect the now-aware soul can feel trapped.

Precisely. The issue is how we come to agree, many of us remember the manipulation that took to get us here.

[giovonni]

yes, allegedly a soul agrees to be in a body - so, one could perceive being in a body as trapped - and since we 'forgot' we agreed to being in this body, yet have become aware we are something more than a body, I suspect the now-aware soul can feel trapped.

Precisely. The issue is how we come to agree, many of us remember the manipulation that took to get us here.

Perhaps some souls (simply) are just overwhelmed with dealing with this plane of expressive existence ... :)

[Why]

Very intriguing thread. I have read spiritual masters telling souls can be trapped or destroyed. It requires a subtle energy similar to soul to do so.If a soul can be embodied in a body, why can't a similar method be used for the soul too?

[DNA]

Hi Herve this is a really awesome post.



I am fairly convinced that a soul can be "zombified" if not "captured" if only from that Ingo Swann adventure on the other side of the moon: an out of body Ingo got spotted and chased around... Gurdjieff also warned about that moon.


I've read and I often source Ingo Swann's (penetration). Ingo went to the moon via remote viewing at the beheads of one Axle Rod, a government agent who would not divulge who exactly he represented this being back in the early 70's if memory servers me correct.
The part you mention is when Ingo went to the moon via remote viewing and he was recognized by human beings working/mining in one of the domed craters.
These human beings appeared human, except they seemed to have had extra sensory abilities to the point of recognizing one without a body consciousness belonging to the remote viewing Ingo Swann. Upon seeing he was recognized, Ingo voiced what was happening to Axel Rod who was sitting next to his body.
Axel Rod then ordered Ingo to return to earth and his body immediately.
The beings on the moon hadn't done anything to Ingo except point to Ingo's consciousness and indicate they saw him.
So I'm not quite sure what you mean by your statement being as these folks hadn't done anything to Ingo.


Also, I'm curious as to what Gurdjieff stated about the moon.


A key ingredient to fully comprehend and understand how such thing can happen is hypnosis and its use with which a human being - in or out of body - can be made to believe ANYTHING! ... even that the moon is made of green cheese or that the earth is flat.


Hypnosis for what happens in the body can be studied and subjectified, but I don't know if we can make that jump to not being in the body. I don't know if we can make that jump and say that a soul can be hypnotized as easily as consciousness that is still within the body.


I often refer to the "Third Man In The Room (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68916-Don-t-go-into-the-light-Discussion-thread&p=806378&viewfull=1#post806378)" experiment to demonstrate how anyone can be hypnotized and made to see or not see/perceive actual 3D physicality.

I also refer to the "Toilet Flushers (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59804-My-Almost-Zero-Success-At-Awakening-People-Advice-Needed&p=683950&viewfull=1#post683950)" who - on cue - automatically behave a certain way and always that same way without fail! Imagine what a post-hypnotic command of "No-no-no: chemtrails don't exist!"... or "Souls cannot be captured! We re all free-will sovereign beings!" or "We lost the war and we are all captured and slaves forever and ever!" for that matter...


I watched the third man in the room video you linked. And it is very entertaining, but it is a little on the sensational side and feels kind of tabloidy. I'm not saying the piece has no merit, but I will state that this piece is not exactly something I would take to the bank and deposit in the safety deposit box of holy truth. The show has a distinct feel that ratings are needed for it's survival, as such I consider it absolutely possible that the subject who was hypnotized may in fact be "acting" as part of the show.


Also, I read the "toilet flusher" part you had written on another thread. This basically was an example of someone being hypnotized to flush a toilet everytime the hypnotist tugged on his collar. To this I state this may not be real either. People act out all the freaking time for attention. People will do the stupidest things you can imagine for attention. I'm not saying that is the case because the real case is do I believe in hypnotism in this manner having this kind of power over people and to this I say no.


I just do not.
If hypnotism was this universally powerful then I'm of the opinion it would be used far more than it is.


All of the most brilliant criminals would be hypnotists, and instead of committing crimes they would have someone else do them.


Even in the case of MKULTRA, the conditions and the applications are so much more advanced than this parlor trick wave a pocket watch in someone's face crap.


MKULTRA vicitims are brain washed and hypnotized from a child. They are repeatedly traumatized so visciously as to cause folks to sometimes die of mental breakdowns.
The Mauntak Project as reported by Bielek, Swerdlow and Nichols had a very low survival rate for the Mountak boys. This was because of how devastating and Machiavellian the procedure was to imprint and psychologically coax these kids into what was wanted from them.


If hypnosis was as easy as waving a pocket watch why would TPTB go through all of t his? They wouldn't because hypnosis as you are describing does not work like this at all. This is all play acting, kind of like how faith healing works.







Belief and the Powers of the Mind
Before my days at the monastery, I was attending a university (To make a long story short, I flunked high school, was expelled, supposedly had a genius I.Q., and ended up in college instead). In one of my classes, the professor gave a hypnosis demonstration. I witnessed people who were so well “hypnotized”, that when they were told that a burning cigar was being touched to the palm of their hand, blisters instantly appeared (even though only an unlit cigar was touched to their hand). But as the years have gone by in my life, I have witnessed far more amazing and strange things. Believe it or not - it really doesn’t matter to me.

I have seen objects moved with thought. I’ve seen hand-to-hand combat, where no flesh ever made contact. I’ve seen bodies tossed about like rag dolls by energies invisible to the “normal” human eye. I’ve seen people with bad cuts stop bleeding by “thinking it so”. I’ve seen people stop their heart, and stop breathing, without dying. I’ve seen monks in the Himalayas, sit in the snow, in conditions that were so cold that as they were wrapped in wet blankets, the blankets froze around them.

After many layers of blankets were applied, the monks would visualize heat within themselves, radiating out. The blankets would defrost, and a circle of melted snow would appear around them. Their degree of mental accomplishment was measured by the size of the circle around them. And I’ve seen far more.

The “hypnosis demonstrations” in college, were mysterious and remarkable enough, but after witnessing the monks melting the ice, I asked Zain how such things were done. After having me read what was called “The Tibetan Treatise of Psychic Heat”, he began teaching me all the details of the power of the mind. It began with this discussion:


Again, I'm not a member of the convinced in terms of simple hypnosis. But in terms of what a full blown mystic monk can do, now that is a different story. I have no problem believing what you are talking about in terms of monks exhibiting these types of powers. And I absolutely think there is a projected mode of interpreting reality we all partake of regardless of the fact we have never chosen to do so. But I do not think it is a hypnotic suggestion. :no: :no:


That would be far far far to easy.
No, I absolutely think this exists, but not as any type of simple command.


We see a false and limited society, because there is a living entity inside of all of us, and it is alive because it feeds on our energy system.


Folks imagine archons flying around and in charge of the world via spaceship.
I say no to this.
Archons exist inside of our being, like a conscious tentacle that is connected to the demiurge. We only become conscious of the archon when we have begun to liberate our consciousness to the point where the archon feels it needs to manifest in a somewhat human form to perform maneuvers to put us back in place.


I laugh my ass off when folks make statements about being enlightened.
Because in my view no one is enlightened unless they have managed to untangle themselves from the demiurge. And the folks who do this you can probably count with one hand.


“Your beliefs control and affect the incredible powers of the mind, which dictate,

or influence, many things in your life...
... so may be there is something to this “Everyday in every way, I am getting better and better” (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-and-Ron-s-Org&p=962471&viewfull=1#post962471)

Anyway, many a researcher have warned about "screen/false/overlaid memories" (Turner, Bartholic, Lorgen, Bartley, Truman Cash (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52786-MATRIX-REVEALED-Analysis-Solutions), etc...)


Turner, Bartholic, Lorgen and Bartley are talking about something else.


And this actually dove tails well with Ingo Swann as well.


And this all dovetails well with David Jacobs as well.


All of these folks are talking about the "alien" ability to hypnotize us and place false memories into our being.


Not through any simple means, but because aliens have telepathy+.


Telepathy alone being the ability to read someone's mind. Telepathy+ being the ability to not only read someone's mind, but to insert things into those minds as well.


You see, these aliens who abduct us and create these fanciful screen memories are able to do so according to David Jacobs because atleast one member of the abduction team stands right next to the abductee to the point his forehead is almost touching the forehead of the abductee. And it is this individual who is broadcasting a "false" virtual reality that the abductee remembers instead of the actual medical exam cold steel table experience.
Also I might add, that Karla Turner recalled an incident where a very large Mantis type alien was attempting to emotionally bond with her as a child by telling Karla that the Mantis alien was her mother. Karla with the help of Barbara Bartholic rejected this memory as a screen memory. A false memory. A misleading memory. A manipulative memory.


I find it ironic that this EXACT same scenario is described by Simon Parks. And Simon seems to fall right into the mindset in which the false screen memory had intended. I say this not to discredit Simon as a contactee, but to point out how in my opinion he is an abductee who is being manipulated and his message is one in which the enemy wants spread.

[Mike]

currently i'm reading philip imbrogno's 'ultraterrestrial contact'. its quite good. and coincidentally the topic of soul capture came up in a passage i was reading yesterday. even more coincidentally it also has to do with a shamanic technique known as 'soul retrieval', something i wrote about in an earlier post here.

the passage involves a woman named Laura, who had abduction experiences dating back to her childhood. it picks up here...



"the paranormal activity (in particular, the abductions) tormented her so much that she desperately searched for help. She was told of a native american shaman in arizona who understood her situation and how to deal with it. So, in the late eighties, laura traveled to meet with him. what took place is one of the most unusual stories i have ever heard in all my years of paranormal investigation.

the shaman, who was referred to as Jade, told her she would have to go through a special ritual called "soul retrieval". jade felt the alien beings had stolen a part of laura's life force. he told her they must both leave their bodies and confront these entities to bargain for the return of her soul.

as the ritual began, jade tied a rope around laura's waist and took her hand, warning her not to let go - he felt the beings were very powerful and that confronting them would not be an easy task. in a guided trance, they left their bodies, and laura tells me she remembers flying through the sky, holding on to jade. they traveled and passed through a door that led them to a ship. there, they found 3 beings standing in a room. the beings were hairless, quite tall, and had long arms, round heads and pointy chins. laura said they seemed to be covered in a silvery glow that gave them a very nonhuman appearance. she said the shape of their heads reminded her of the "witches" who came into her room at night when she was a child. as she stood there in awe, jade seemed to be in an argument with the beings to return a part of laura, a part they'd had in possession since she was a child. the beings said they were from the pleiades and have been with laura's family for generations. they explained that they needed her life force because it gave them the energy they needed to live....."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------





i do wonder about the interchangeable use of the words "life force" and "soul". same thing? not sure...

i still maintain that our ultimate essence cannot be captured, but perhaps other subtle parts of us can be...at least temporarily. the names we give those subtle parts tends to confuse things.

[Hervé]

[...]
I watched the third man in the room video you linked. And it is very entertaining, but it is a little on the sensational side and feels kind of tabloidy....
[...]

I'll just answer this:



[...]

I watched a part of the Derren Brown youtube in your post and I have to say that I have serious reservations as to his credibility.

[...]

Hello Eram,

The Derren Brown videos are there to underline that, that "Third Man In The Room" experiment has been duplicated numerous time with similar results.

I don't doubt that Derren Brown uses artifices and tricks of the trade to be able to turn his skills into live shows :)

I use hypnosis as a proof of concept that what runs this world is its unconscious content more than anything else, whether one calls it culture, upbringing, brainwashing, programming, implants, post hypnotic commands, telepathic influencing, etc... and the reaction of individuals when pointed out their behaviour is not quite rational :)

I think Chris calls "ego" what I call "unconscious content."

[Omni]

I don't buy the soul capture scenario(the white light). Nor do I buy we are being eaten energetically by an army of 2d demons. It is all psy op nonsense IMO. Alt media is plagued by electromagnetic mind control IMO. That is a source of these ideas IMO.

[Hervé]

A recent interview with David Jacobs:
The Truth Perspective: Interview with David M. Jacobs: "Walking Among Us: The Alien Plan to Control Humanity" (https://www.sott.net/article/317893-The-Truth-Perspective-Interview-with-David-M-Jacobs-Walking-Among-Us-The-Alien-Plan-to-Control-Humanity#)


Sott.net (https://www.sott.net/article/317893-The-Truth-Perspective-Interview-with-David-M-Jacobs-Walking-Among-Us-The-Alien-Plan-to-Control-Humanity#) Sun, 08 May 2016 16:00 UTC

UFO sightings. Alien abduction accounts. These topics have been so fraught with misinformation, sensationalism and pure speculation over the years that to learn what is actually occurring can be a very difficult undertaking even under the best of circumstances. There are a few out there who succeed in doing so.

Joining us for this episode of The Truth Perspective is retired Professor of History David M. Jacobs, author of such well-known titles as The UFO Controversy in America, Secret Life and The Threat. In his most recent book, Walking Among Us: The Alien Plan to Control Humanity, Dr. Jacobs takes his research another step further and presents his latest findings and conclusions about the alien presence here on Earth.

In his well-grounded and concrete style, Dr. Jacobs goes into detail to explain the rigors of his study, as well as how he has come to understand this topic of topics. If you have ever wondered what the truth about aliens was, you'll want to listen in!
[...]
Running Time: 02:08:50

Download: OGG (https://media.sott.net/srn/20160508ttp-interview-with-david-m-jacobs-walking-among-us-the-alien-plan-to-control-humanity.ogg), MP3 (https://media.sott.net/srn/20160508ttp-interview-with-david-m-jacobs-walking-among-us-the-alien-plan-to-control-humanity.mp3)


https://media.sott.net/srn/20160508ttp-interview-with-david-m-jacobs-walking-among-us-the-alien-plan-to-control-humanity.mp3



So, I don't know, but it seems to me that there isn't much difference in installing false memories of "Nothing happened!" in people's mind while being abducted day/night after day/night for millions of individuals and a "Grande Finale" of Pearly Gates when the biological vehicle is scheduled for the scrap yard...

[PurpleLama]

I believe that a lot of confusion arises from how we see our singular identities as a fact, when in truth every sentient being is a composite, as a lifetime progresses parts are added and removed to and from the local psychic environment into our "selves". Like a dog has fleas, we have a mash up of fragmented thought forms we like to ascribe qualities to, like mind, self, soul, etc, etc. When in reality the true basis for our experience is more like an empty container containing a recipe of ingredients that we identify with to greater and lesser extents, a recipe that is changed to suit us (consciously) or not (unconsciously).

[greybeard]

Slightly off topic.
Invictus poem and the name chosen for this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-36244069

Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find me, unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.[1]

Chris

[ZooLife]

The soul is a programmed and programming machine. It is constantly acquiring code, breaking it down and reassembling into a different configuration. Change anyone?

[ZooLife]

[...]
... --not separate, but within me.

I and everyone else is pure awareness.
It is permanent--you can not turn it of--it is always there.
You are aware of what you do--aware of what is going on--
[...]
Chris


^^^ :confused: :confused: :confused: >>>




... aware the moment you wake--and awareness carries on
when you are asleep--it will alert, you, wake you, up if that is required.


A "pure" something is something whole, unmixed with something else, unalloyed, unaltered... right?

... then, how come IT wakes YOU up? and, in the first place, how come YOU - "pure awareness" - can fall asleep?

:silent:



Good stuff Hervé

The soul can configure itself to have an internal alarm clock and set it for certain parameters. The question remains, what did it set itself to awake to? To recognize a refined code?

Eventually I think the soul arrives at a point where it recognizes in a glimpse that there is something beyond code (regardless of how refined it is) without 'knowing' what that is. The code/ equation then falls apart in quick succession though it is programmed to reassemble. Who knows how long this has been going on? Time, too, is an code/ equation.

It this context, Awake is absence of all code as an identifying feature.

[DNA]

So, I don't know, but it seems to me that there isn't much difference in installing false memories of "Nothing happened!" in people's mind while being abducted day/night after day/night for millions of individuals and a "Grande Finale" of Pearly Gates when the biological vehicle is scheduled for the scrap yard...
[


The aliens in the David Jacobs regressions of folks who have been abducted are not omnipotent. The alien use of telepathy+ (which I covered in my last post) is limited in the sense that the alien performing the false memory insertion must be extremely close to the person receiving the memory implant. It is stated by Jacobs that the alien must be so close to the person receiving the false memory that the giver of the false memory must be touching foreheads with the receiver of the false memories.

The demand of close proximity is a pertinent limitation worth considering here.
This would make it difficult to perform the same manuever on a living conscious soul leaving the body.

Also, you seem to be of the opinion that the soul when free of the body is beset with the same psychological/psychic limitations as when in the body.
This is a worthy subject to compare and contrast because I do not believe this to be the case.
While in our bodies we are connected to a living tentacle of the demiurge. I believe this living tentacle to be what the Gnostics referred to as the archons. This living tentacle works tirelessly to bleed us of our ability to manifest inside our multidimensional totality. Upon death, I am thinking this is no longer the case, and we then are capable of seeing things a tad clearer than we do now.

Also, I'm of the opinion that the Annunaki built into our being certain genetic dificiences, especially in so how our brain and consciousness operate. I'm of the opinion that we have been made easy to control via telepathy. I'm of the opinion that in so far as conscious and aware physical life forms go, we may have the worst telepathy/ESP/Active3rdEye set up around. And I think this has been done by design. I'm of the opinion that our bodies and the resulting physicality of our brain which must process our psychic mind imposes this limitation through our genetics, but upon death this control can no longer be exercised.

[Hervé]

[...] The alien use of telepathy+ (which I covered in my last post) is limited in the sense that the alien performing the false memory insertion must be extremely close to the person receiving the memory implant....
[...]

... unless, that too, is the result of a false memory/implant/psyop/disinfo/etc... because the biological body is no longer part of the equation/process.

Again, the "Third Man In The Room (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68916-Don-t-go-into-the-light-Discussion-thread&p=806378&viewfull=1#post806378)" experiment yields another interesting result from a thorough analysis: it is not the body or its genetics that affects the visibility/invisibility of that third man... it is the mind/soul having been hacked/virus infected that selectively perceives - or not - that third man... the thing that interfaces with the biological body and which departs at that biological body's death... whether in or out of that body, it's still hacked to perceive - or not - certain element of its environment.

The body mostly complies to mind/soul's orders/directions... hence my tongue in cheek
... so may be there is something to this “Everyday in every way, I am getting better and better” (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-and-Ron-s-Org&p=962471&viewfull=1#post962471) as well as the example of spontaneous generation of burn blisters form an unlit cigar (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52785-A-Soul-Cannot-Be-Captured&p=1065715&viewfull=1#post1065715)... something to chew on real hard :). It's also the reason why past life therapies are so therapeutic when relieving individuals from past traumas... or human growing bear fur and claws (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?82914-The-Reincarnation-Trap&p=969693&viewfull=1#post969693)...

As ZooLife pointed out, a human's mind/soul is a hacker's wet dream... hacks on top of hacks on top of virus/psyops on top of billion years old hacks (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?55549-Brainwave-and-Thought-Pattern-Manipulation-AI-Technology-And-The-Invasion-Of-Our-Minds&p=638129&viewfull=1#post638129)... still being used to this day...

[RunningDeer]

Beings in the grip of someone else's universe can be very convincing:


Belief and the Powers of the Mind

Before my days at the monastery, I was attending a university (To make a long story short, I flunked high school, was expelled, supposedly had a genius I.Q., and ended up in college instead). In one of my classes, the professor gave a hypnosis demonstration. I witnessed people who were so well “hypnotized”, that when they were told that a burning cigar was being touched to the palm of their hand, blisters instantly appeared (even though only an unlit cigar was touched to their hand).

But as the years have gone by in my life, I have witnessed far more amazing and strange things. Believe it or not - it really doesn’t matter to me.

I have seen objects moved with thought. I’ve seen hand-to-hand combat, where no flesh ever made contact. I’ve seen bodies tossed about like rag dolls by energies invisible to the “normal” human eye. I’ve seen people with bad cuts stop bleeding by “thinking it so”. I’ve seen people stop their heart, and stop breathing, without dying. I’ve seen monks in the Himalayas, sit in the snow, in conditions that were so cold that as they were wrapped in wet blankets, the blankets froze around them.

After many layers of blankets were applied, the monks would visualize heat within themselves, radiating out. The blankets would defrost, and a circle of melted snow would appear around them. Their degree of mental accomplishment was measured by the size of the circle around them. And I’ve seen far more.

The “hypnosis demonstrations” in college, were mysterious and remarkable enough, but after witnessing the monks melting the ice, I asked Zain how such things were done. After having me read what was called “The Tibetan Treatise of Psychic Heat”, he began teaching me all the details of the power of the mind. It began with this discussion:

“Your beliefs control and affect the incredible powers of the mind, which dictate,
or influence, many things in your life...

Thanks, Hervé. The above passage is on page 148. (I'll add this pdf to the other thread.)

The Lost Teachings of Atlantis: & the Children of the Law of One, (http://www.magia-metachemica.net/uploads/1/0/6/2/10624795/lost_teachings_of_atlantis-cayce.pdf)By Jon Peniel

A back up link:

The Lost Teachings of Atlantis: & the Children of the Law of One, (http://www.vielewelten.at/pdf_en/jon%20peniel.pdf) By Jon Peniel

[Thanks Paula :)
I got it from here: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/children-lawofone-lost-teachings-atlantis.pdf
, Hervé]

[Arcturian108]

RunningDeer, I realized when I posted a few days ago I was outing myself, but it may be time to be more public. So far, so good, knock on wood.
Thanks.

[DNA]

[...] The alien use of telepathy+ (which I covered in my last post) is limited in the sense that the alien performing the false memory insertion must be extremely close to the person receiving the memory implant....
[...]

... unless, that too, is the result of a false memory/implant/psyop/disinfo/etc... because the biological body is no longer part of the equation/process.


Let me get this straight, you would like to use the work of David Jacobs to help support your hypothesis, but when I jump on board with you in using David's work and I emphasis one of David Jacobs greatest discoveries which you feel detracts from your pet theory you then wish to dismiss David Jacobs?


The number one most important discovery by David Jacobs, as he will tell you, is the abducter/visitor standing over the abductee touching foreheads. It's THIS discovery that hinges on David Jacobs being able to differentiate the screen memories from the real memories.


You seem to have a knee jerk reaction in defense of your pet theory here. I'm simply opening up a dialogue, and trying to enter into a discussion. I could just as easily argue your point for you, and I would not constantly reference tabloid hypnotists who are trying to be the next Chris Angel. Again, I've reviewed your hypnotic examples, and I find them lacking and probably fake.


My advice to folks upon death would be to trust their instincts and if they feel what is being presented is real, then to trust that.
All in all, I plan on crossing a tunnel into the higher dimensions upon death.


Since you feel that is a trap. Maybe you could share what you think the best alternative would be.

[Mark]

Fourth Way philosophy aims to strip man of his mechanical behavior and hypnotic programming in order to build within him a core of heightened consciousness. It is an esoteric system assembled from incomplete fragments of inner Christianity and Sufism. It’s founder, Georges Gurdjieff, frequently admonished the thoughtless mechanical behavior of humanity and was fond of saying that we are “food for the moon.”

What did Gurdjieff mean by this phrase? Many have interpreted “food for the moon” as a figure of speech, that perhaps Gurdjieff meant we are slave to our mechanical conditioning and feed our baser impulses. While it can be additionally interpreted that way, Gurdjieff was likely being literal. Peter Ouspensky, one of Gurdjieff’s most prolific disciples, lectured at length concerning the moon’s role in human affairs and its place in the cosmological scheme of things. It is reasonable to assume what Ouspensky wrote about the moon accurately reflects what Gurdjieff taught him.

http://montalk.net/matrix/114/food-for-the-moon

[DNA]

Fourth Way philosophy aims to strip man of his mechanical behavior and hypnotic programming in order to build within him a core of heightened consciousness. It is an esoteric system assembled from incomplete fragments of inner Christianity and Sufism. It’s founder, Georges Gurdjieff, frequently admonished the thoughtless mechanical behavior of humanity and was fond of saying that we are “food for the moon.”

What did Gurdjieff mean by this phrase? Many have interpreted “food for the moon” as a figure of speech, that perhaps Gurdjieff meant we are slave to our mechanical conditioning and feed our baser impulses. While it can be additionally interpreted that way, Gurdjieff was likely being literal. Peter Ouspensky, one of Gurdjieff’s most prolific disciples, lectured at length concerning the moon’s role in human affairs and its place in the cosmological scheme of things. It is reasonable to assume what Ouspensky wrote about the moon accurately reflects what Gurdjieff taught him.http://montalk.net/matrix/114/food-for-the-moon


Hi Rahkyt
I hope all is good. It's nice to see/hear/read you again, the forum misses you. :bowing: :handshake:


I went to your link on Gurdjieff and realized after I had started reading that this was all familiar and I had read it before, and that was because I happened on to a blog of yours a few months back that had to do with the Archons/Fliers.
I looked for the blog but I failed to find it. Maybe you could post a link for folks so they can check it out.



While on the topic of the moon, I think there is quite a bit out there. I did a thread that went no where a few months back. THE CHANI MATERIAL http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88865-The-CHANI-Material--communication-via-particle-accelerator-


There was quite a bit of good stuff there on the moon along this same line of thinking.
I've been of the opinion that maybe a good Moon thread is in order.
I've seen enough lately to wonder if maybe we would be better off without the moon.
Wasn't there a passage in HG Wells "The Time Machine" where HG Wells went to the future and chanced upon a day when the earth had blown up the moon?
There is enough in the HG Wells material to make me wonder if in fact the guy was in communication with someone who had traveled in time.
Didn't HG Wells coin the term "Atom Bomb" before the bomb was even an exercise in hypothetical physics conversations?


I'm serious about the Moon thread, we need to open that and postulate whither or not we would be better off with or without the moon. :laser:
Have a good one :bearhug:

[Mark]

I looked for the blog but I failed to find it. Maybe you could post a link for folks so they can check it out.

That was a 4-part series I did, OPs, Archons and Flyers, Oh No! (https://rahkyt.com/2013/02/04/ops-archons-and-flyers-oh-no-part-i/) The specific mention of the phrase, "food for the moon" was in the third article, I believe.


I've seen enough lately to wonder if maybe we would be better off without the moon.
Wasn't there a passage in HG Wells "The Time Machine" where HG Wells went to the future and chanced upon a day when the earth had blown up the moon?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSs6eKmTCDY


I'm serious about the Moon thread, we need to open that and postulate whither or not we would be better off with or without the moon. :laser:
Have a good one :bearhug:

There does not seem to be a thread dedicated to such on the forum. Perhaps it would be a good place to concentrate effort and information.

[greybeard]

I know nothing about the moon but!!!
No moon, no in and out of tide--followed by stagnation, followed by death of virtually everything living.

Am I right? I don't honestly know--it was the idea of this moment.
Happy to be corrected.

Chris

[giovonni]

I looked for the blog but I failed to find it. Maybe you could post a link for folks so they can check it out.

That was a 4-part series I did, OPs, Archons and Flyers, Oh No! (https://rahkyt.com/2013/02/04/ops-archons-and-flyers-oh-no-part-i/) The specific mention of the phrase, "food for the moon" was in the third article, I believe.


I've seen enough lately to wonder if maybe we would be better off without the moon.
Wasn't there a passage in HG Wells "The Time Machine" where HG Wells went to the future and chanced upon a day when the earth had blown up the moon?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSs6eKmTCDY


I'm serious about the Moon thread, we need to open that and postulate whither or not we would be better off with or without the moon. :laser:
Have a good one :bearhug:

There does not seem to be a thread dedicated to such on the forum. Perhaps it would be a good place to concentrate effort and information.


Our Moon (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89350-Our-Moon&p=1052473&viewfull=1#post1052473)

[Mark]

I know nothing about the moon but!!!
No moon, no in and out of tide--followed by stagnation, followed by death of virtually everything living.

Am I right? I don't honestly know--it was the idea of this moment.
Happy to be corrected.

Chris

Without the Moon, Would There Be Life on Earth? (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/moon-life-tides/)


"I suspect that eventually life would have made land without the tides. But the lineages that ultimately gave rise to humans were at first intertidal."

Life without the Moon: a scientific speculation (http://www.scienceinschool.org/2013/issue26/moon)


"What would have happened on Earth if, about 4.5 billion years ago, Theia had passed peacefully on its way without striking Earth and forming a moon? Well, life of some sort would probably exist on Earth, but humans almost certainly wouldn’t. Think of the very long course of evolution, the small changes, the minute adaptations that organisms make to their environment. It would only have taken small changes to Earth’s environment to have dramatically altered the course of evolution."

Earth May Not Have Needed Moon for Life (http://news.discovery.com/space/history-of-space/earth-moon-life-tilt-110808.htm)


"Plus- or minus-10 would certainly be noticeable and may be a problem, but I don't think it would prevent life from coming about" ...

The jury remains out, Chris. :)

[giovonni]

:bump: ...






I'm serious about the Moon thread, we need to open that and postulate whither or not we would be better off with or without the moon. :laser:
Have a good one :bearhug:

There does not seem to be a thread dedicated to such on the forum. Perhaps it would be a good place to concentrate effort and information.


Our Moon (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89350-Our-Moon&p=1052473&viewfull=1#post1052473)

[DNA]

I know nothing about the moon but!!!
No moon, no in and out of tide--followed by stagnation, followed by death of virtually everything living.

Am I right? I don't honestly know--it was the idea of this moment.
Happy to be corrected.

Chris


This is the current thought in mainstream science. But quite a few people believe that the moon has not always been here.
F-6Gi-VbVPc


Crrow777 does quite a bit of work in this regard, and points out not a few ancient civilizations that talk about a time before the moon.
Hadi-Bow a supposed insider working for the Russian shadow Government states unequivocably that there was a time before the moon and even puts a date to it stating the moon has only been in our orbit some 18,000 years.
Billy Meier stated he was told by his contacts the moon has not always been here and his time frame for when the moon was placed here was in the 18,000 year ball park.
Many folks state that the moon is hollow and was originally a space ship. Ingo Swan hints to this, Stewart Swerdlow out and out says this.
5NKtD8r-XPg


Personally, I don't believe the vast majority of data main stream science struts as fact.
And, I'm pretty sure everything would be just fine if we had no moon.
Things might even be considerably better.

[DNA]

Our Moon (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89350-Our-Moon&p=1052473&viewfull=1#post1052473)


There is some really good information here including the two quotes below. But I think the thread lacked an active OP stimulating conversation and actively attempting to engage various topics. I absolutely value folks sharing links and information sources, but I value the actual opinion of those involved and posting on the thread far more than the cited sources. This might just be me who feels like this, but without dialogue I feel the value of the thread is diminished.





Greeting's Loxie

Here's something you might find interesting though a bit dated - I first posted this 7 years ago back on 02-10-2009,
on the original Project Avalon forum ... on the What does it mean - column ...

Titled

Michael Tellinger's the mysteries of the Moon~ from high strangeness to innuendos

***

Michael Tellinger is the author of "Slave Species of god", a book that presents shocking new evidence suggesting that humans were created as a less intelligent species some 250 000 years ago. Since it was first published back in 2006. Michael Tellinger has started a monthly newsletter, where he sends out information of the latest discoveries regarding the topics he talks about in his book.

Michael's site
here http://www.slavespecies.com/index.asp

This thread will examine the many mysteries and facts concerning the planet Earth's closest heavenly cmpanion. It also will look into the high strangeness of it cosmic makeup, and the probable possibility of it having a low density, but breathable (air)atmosphere ~ too the innuendos ~ that the Moon ~ is really an artificial body ~ placed here by off planet beings?


Updated 2/16/09
Note~ Parts 1, 2 and 3 are now posted below.


From: Michael Tellinger

WHAT really happened on the MOON? Astronauts reveal encounters with ETs and UFOs.

Part 1

After reaching the Holy Grail of space exploration, NASA suddenly and unexpectedly stopped all moon missions after Apollo 17. WHY?

While most westerners have in some ways been shielded from UFO stories by the major media groups over the past several decades, the people in the USSR have been far more exposed to these ideas. To the average Russian, UFO and alien stories are not strange at all. Russian television dedicated much of its airtime to programmes surrounding sightings and abductions and other interaction with so-called aliens. It is therefore not surprising that there are more recorded sightings of UFOs and aliens in the old USSR (Russia and its new brothers) than any other country. If my memory serves me right, at the height of its TV exposure and popularity there were an average 90,000 reported sightings per annum in the USSR , and consequently discussed on television. It is as a consequence of this openness towards this subject, that in October 2007 the Russians most likely blew the lid off this dungeon of secrecy so closely guarded by NASA.

There seems to be some weird agenda and a completely different mindset in the West regarding the existence or proof of other advanced beings in the universe. Many government agencies in the West have done all they can to suppress such information to the best of their ability. Why? The answer is more complex than we would ever imagine.

By the 29th October 2007 astronomers have discovered 251 new planets, most of which were discovered between 2005 and 2007. This means that if this rate persists, these planetary discoveries will grow exponentially to several million new planets in the next decade. So, with the help of science and astronomy, it is becoming increasingly more difficult to argue the idea that we are all alone in this universe.

The past two decades have seen a number of US and Russian astronauts confess to seeing UFOs and even ETs while in space or on the surface of the moon. While this kind of information should be making headline news, as it holds serious implications for our safety as a species on a planet called Earth, it has been relegated to the "fine print" of global news. Again we need to ask, why?

Gordon Cooper was one of USA 's first astronauts. One of the original seven Mercury astronauts, Cooper orbited the Earth for a record 34 hours, which took him on 22 orbits in the spacecraft Faith 7, in May 1963.

In his post-NASA career, Cooper became known as an outspoken believer in UFOs and repeatedly claimed that the US government was covering up its knowledge of extraterrestrial activity. In 1985 Gordon Cooper delivered a message to the UN in New York , during a discussion on UFOs and ETs. The speech was based on his own personal experience of UFO sightings in space and the additional testimony of other Mercury, Gemini and Apollo astronauts. The panel was chaired by then UN Secretary-General Kurt Waldheim. Cooper died on the 4th October 2004 at age 77.

"I believe that these extraterrestrial vehicles and their crews are visiting this planet from other planets, which are a little more technically advanced than we are on Earth. I feel that we need to have a top level, coordinated program to scientifically collect and analyze data from all over the Earth concerning any type of encounter, and to determine how best to interfere with these visitors in a friendly fashion.

We may first have to show them that we have learned how to resolve our problems by peaceful means rather than warfare, before we are accepted as fully qualified universal team members. Their acceptance will have tremendous possibilities of advancing our world in all areas. Certainly then it would seem that the UN has a vested interest in handling the subject quickly and properly.

I should point out that I am not an experienced UFO professional researcher - I have not as yet had the privilege of flying a UFO nor of meeting the crew of one. However, I do feel that I am somewhat qualified to discuss them, since I have been into the fringes of the vast areas of which they travel. Also, I did have occasion in 1951 to have two days of observation of many flights of them, of different sizes flying in fighter formation, generally from west to east over Europe . They were at a higher altitude than we could reach with our jet fighters....

If the U.N. agrees to pursue this project and lend the credibility to it, perhaps many more well qualified people will agree to step forth and provide help and information."

This kind of evidence simply highlights the probability that there is a huge cover up to keep such information from the mainstream population. Whatever the reasons for the cover-ups by global powers, which includes the mainstream media, raises some profound questions.

And while NASA has always claimed that the findings of lunar and space expeditions have never been held secret, it is curious to note that Dr. Farouk El Baz, one of NASA's foremost scientists admitted, "not every discovery has been announced".

Nearly all the astronauts were military officers who were governed by an extremely strict code of conduct which included being silenced under orders. As time erodes their loyalties and their conscience caught up, along with the inevitable ageing process, these space cowboys started spilling the beans.

Apollo 14 astronaut E. MITCHELL had this to say:

"I'm convinced there's life throughout the universe. It's just a question of how developed. Are they a few thousand years ahead of us? It doesn't take much."

The Canadian reports that according to transcripts of the technical debriefing following the Apollo 11 mission, astronauts Armstrong, Collins, and Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin told of their encounter with a large cylindrical UFO, even before reaching the moon. Aldrin officially presented his encounters with extraterrestrials on CNN's Larry King Live.

"The first unusual thing that we saw I guess was one day out or pretty close to the moon. It had a sizable dimension to it". He further said the Apollo crew first thought the object was the Saturn 4 booster rocket (S-IVB) but he added, "We called the ground and were told the S-IVB was 6 000 miles away."

Aldrin described the UFO as a cylinder, while Armstrong said it was "really two rings… two connected rings". Collins added, "It was a hollow cylinder. But then you could change the focus on the sextant and it would be replaced by this open-book shape. It was really weird."

But even stranger was the experience of Aldrin and Armstrong after they reached the moon. According a story on the 20th July 1969 published in the San Bernardino Sun-Telegram, the astronauts saw eerie lights inside a crater near the point where their lunar module was due to touch down the next day.

Armstrong described a mysterious bright light on the inner wall of crater Aristarchus, located north of their flight path on their first sweep around the moon. "It seems to have a slight amount of florescence to it. The area in the crater is quite bright" he remarked. Aldrin confirmed his description, "That area is definitely brighter than anything else I can see. There doesn't appear to be any colour involved in it. It looks like an eerie sight."

On The Oprah Winfrey Show on the 19th July 1991, Mitchell hinted that all information regarding UFOs has not been released. "I do believe that there is a lot more known about extraterrestrial investigation than is available to the public right now…and has been for a long time... it's a long, long story. It goes back to World War II when all of that happened, and is highly classified stuff."

In 1978 Gordon Cooper wrote a letter to the ambassador of the Mission of Grenada to the United Nations supporting a UN initiative to study UFOs. Cooper stated that astronauts "are very reluctant even to discuss UFOs due to the great numbers of people who have indiscriminately sold fake stories and forged documents, abusing their names and reputations without hesitation. Those few astronauts who have continued to participate in the UFO field have had to do so very cautiously. There are several of us who do believe in UFOs and who have had occasion to see a UFO on the ground, or from an airplane."

Cooper had an encounter with a UFO on the ground at Edwards Air Force Base on May 2, 1957. Cooper gave this account of the incident in 1993: "I had a crew that was filming an installation of a precision landing system we were installing out on the dry lake bed, and they were there with stills and movies, and filmed the whole installation and they came running in to tell me that this UFO, a little saucer, had come down right over them, put down three gear, and landed about 50 yards from them, and as they proceeded to go on over to get a closer shot of it, it lifted up, put the gear in, and disappeared in a rapid rate of speed."

"And so I had to follow my directions as a military (officer?)... I had to look up the regulations on who I was to call to report this, which I did, and they ordered me to immediately have the film developed, put it in a pouch, and send them by the commanding general's plane to Washington , which I did. And that was the last I've ever heard of the film."

No public report regarding this incident has ever been lodged, and although the event was listed in the Project Blue Book index, a full report and clear photos are suspiciously absent.
In a 1996 interview Cooper dismissed all conventional explanations for his experience and this is what he had to say. "Well, I figured it was somebody coming from some distant place to visit us."

One of the most compelling pieces of evidence was presented by Christopher Kraft, who was Director of the NASA tracking base in Houston during the Apollo moon missions when he revealed the following conversation, but only after he left his employ at NASA. Kraft stated that there was 1.) a public… and 2.) a secret private A.S.A. radio frequency between the moon and Mission Control and that the conversation below took place during a mysterious two minute interruption in public transmissions.

Once again the unexpected hand of technology intervened as proof of this conversation, when hundreds of independent civilian radio-ham operators with powerful VHF equipment reported hearing the transmission from the Apollo 11 crew, independently from each other thousands of miles apart on Earth. It is further reported that Soviet radio operators also picked up the conversation and published it in Moscow shortly after the event.

ASTRONAUTS NEIL ARMSTRONG and BUZZ ALDRIN speaking from the Moon:

"Those are giant things. No, no, no ... this is not an optical illusion. No one is going to believe this!"

MISSION CONTROL ( HOUSTON ): "What...what...what? What the hell is happening? What's wrong with you?"

ASTRONAUTS: "They're here under the surface."

MISSION CONTROL: "What's there? Emission interrupted... interference control calling Apollo II."

ASTRONAUTS: "We saw some visitors. They were there for awhile, observing the instruments."

MISSION CONTROL: "Repeat your last information."

ASTRONAUTS: "I say that there were other spaceships. They're lined up on the other side of the crater."

MISSION CONTROL: "Repeat...repeat!"

ASTRONAUTS: "Let us sound this orbita ..... In 625 to 5... automatic relay connected... My hands are shaking so badly I can't do anything. Film it? God, if these damned cameras have picked up anything... what then?"

MISSION CONTROL: "Have you picked up anything?"

ASTRONAUTS: "I didn't have any film at hand. Three shots of the saucers or whatever they were that were ruining the film."

MISSION CONTROL: "Control, control here. Are you on your way? Is the uproar with the UFOs over?

ASTRONAUTS: "They've landed there. There they are and they are watching us."

MISSION CONTROL: "The mirrors, the mirrors...have you set them up?"

ASTRONAUTS: "Yes, they're in the right place. But whoever made those space ships surely can come tomorrow and remove them. Over and out."

There is an unconfirmed report documented by Steve Omar, that when Buzz Aldrin opened the door after landing on the moon, he immediately saw a transparent ethereal being staring at him from outside. Another mysterious radio message from the moon was broadcast on French public television only once, after which it was censored. That transmission appeared to be a mysterious, but clearly spoken alien language.

Famous French historian and author Robbert Charroux published the transmission which has been covered-up and suppressed in the US . It originated from US astronaut Worden who transmitted it to NASA, but expert linguists have been unable to translate the message since. Or have they?

The Moon is truly a mysterious satellite trapped in Earth's orbit. Scientists are still at odds about the origins of this heavenly body. Virtually every aspect of the moon is very curious indeed and forces us to examine it in greater detail and with more of an open mind than ever before – when we consider writings by ancient civilisations of planet Earth before it had a moon!

My next article will look at more transmitted conversations between astronauts on various Apollo missions; some Moon Facts; and Russian views on all of this. In the meantime here is a fascinating website to explore.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/


Part 2

STRANGE MOON FACTS
The mystery of the moon keeps growing

After months of research and digging up information about our mysterious satellite the moon, I am once again reminded how important it is to keep an open mind at all times. Just when I thought I had a pretty good idea about the moon, its history and its relation to Earth, my research and the relentless work of many other nosey scientists dishes up a real feast of information to consume in small, digestible bite-size chunks.


The first chairman of NASA's Lunar Exploration Committee, Robert Jastrow, said that "the moon is the Rosetta stone of the planets." Let's hope it allows us to decipher as much of our human history as the Rosetta stone did for Egyptology. And so far, it certainly seem that it can.


I urge you to set aside all you ever thought you knew about this planetary satellite and allow yourself to imagine the most bizarre set of possibilities. As I scratch for historic and new information about the moon, I keep discovering such incredible new material that it forces me to reconsider all I thought I knew. There is certainly a lot more to the moon than meets the eye on the first, second and third inspection. So before we carry on with the story of the Astronauts and their experiences on the moon here are some fascinating facts about the moon – just to shake things up a little.


This information was compiled by Ronald Regehr; a researcher and scientist in the defence industry and NASA. His main attribute seems to be that he is an out-of-the-box thinker. I extracted and edited some of the more juicy bits of info to tickle your fancy.


1. Moon's Age:
Is much older than previously expected and maybe even older than the Earth or even the Sun. Earth's age is estimated to be 4.6 billion years old at the most by some scientists – while various moon rocks were dated at 5.3 billion years old. What's more puzzling is that the dust upon which they were resting was at least another billion years older.

2. Rock's Origin:
The chemical composition of the dust below the rocks differs remarkably from the rocks themselves. This excludes the possibility that the dust resulted from the weathering rocks themselves. Where did the rocks come from? Somewhere else?

3. Heavier Elements on Surface:
On Earth and the composition of other planets, the heavier elements are normally found in the core while the lighter materials are concentrated at the surface. But not so with the moon. The abundance of refractory elements like titanium in the surface areas is so pronounced, that several geologists proposed that the refractory compounds must have been brought to the moon's surface in great quantity in some unknown way. They are adamant. They don't know how, but there is no other way for this to have happened!

4. Water Vapour:
On the 7th March 1971, lunar instruments that were positioned on the moon by the astronauts recorded a cloud of water vapour passing across the surface of the moon. The cloud covered an area of about 100 square miles and lasted 14 hours.

5. Magnetic Rocks:
Moon rocks are magnetised. This is very strange because there is no magnetic field on the moon itself. And it could not have originated from a "lose call" with Earth because such an encounter would have ripped the moon apart.

6. No Volcanoes:
Some of the moon's craters originated internally, yet there is no indication that the moon was ever hot enough to produce volcanic eruptions.

7. Moon Mascons:
Mascons are large, dense, circular masses, lying twenty to forty miles beneath the centres of each of the moon's large maria (dried crater-like ocean beds). Some scientists suggest that these are broad, disk-shaped objects, that could even be some kind of artificial constructions. Huge circular disks would not appear perfectly centred beneath each huge mare by coincidence or accident, they claim.

8. Seismic Activity:
Hundreds of "moonquakes" are recorded each year that cannot be attributed to meteor strikes. In November 1958, Soviet astronomer Nikolay A. Kozyrev of the Crimean Astrophysical Observatory photographed a gaseous eruption of the moon near the crater Alphonsus. He also detected a reddish glow that lasted for about an hour. In 1963, astronomers at the Lowell Observatory also saw reddish glows on the crests of ridges in the Aristarchus region.

What is really fascinating about these events, is that they were observed to be identical in their activity and they occur precisely and periodically, repeating themselves as the moon moves closer to Earth. These are probably not natural phenomena.

9. Hollow Moon:
The moon's mean density is 3.34 gm/cm3 (3.34 times an equal volume of water) whereas the Earth's mean density is 5.5. What does this mean? In 1962, NASA scientist Dr. Gordon MacDonald stated, "If the astronomical data are reduced, it is found that the data require that the interior of the moon is more like a hollow than a homogeneous sphere."

Nobel chemist Dr. Harold Urey suggested the moon's reduced density is because of large areas inside the moon where is "simply a cavity."

MIT's Dr. Sean C. Solomon wrote, "the Lunar Orbiter experiments vastly improved our knowledge of the moon's gravitational field… indicating the frightening possibility that the moon might be hollow."

In Carl Sagan's work Intelligent Life in the Universe, the famous astronomer stated, "A natural satellite cannot be a hollow object."

10. Moon Echoes:
On the 20th November 1969, the crew of Apollo 12 jettisoned the lunar module ascent stage causing it to crash onto the moon some 40 miles from the Apollo 12 landing site. This created an artificial moonquake with startling characteristics. The moon reverberated like a bell for more than an hour. This phenomenon was intentionally repeated with Apollo 13, when they allowed the third stage to impact the moon. The results were even more startling. Seismic instruments recorded that the reverberations lasted for three hours and twenty minutes and travelled to a depth of twenty-five miles. This lead to the conclusion that the moon has an unusually light, or even no core.

11. Unusual Metals:
The moon's crust is much harder than presumed. The astronauts encountered extreme difficulty when they tried to drill into the maria. The maria is composed primarily ilmenite, which is a mineral containing large amounts of titanium, the same metal used to fabricate the hulls of deep-diving submarines and the skin of the SR-71 "Blackbird". What is even more puzzling, was the discovery of Uranium 236 and Neptunium 237 in lunar rocks (elements not found in nature on Earth). And a further surprise was finding rustproof iron particles. What?

12. Moon's Origin:
Before the moon rocks conclusively disproved all the common theories about the moon's origins, these were some of the theories.

The moon was believed to have originated when a chunk of Earth broke off eons ago (who knows from where, if the materials are not the same?).

Another theory was that the moon was created from leftover "space dust" remaining after the Earth was created. Analysis of the composition of moon rocks disproved this theory also.

Another popular theory is that the moon was somehow "captured" by the Earth's gravitational attraction. But no scientific evidence exists to support this theory. Isaac Asimov stated, "It's too big to have been captured by the Earth. The chances of such a capture having been effected and the moon then having taken up a nearly circular orbit around our Earth, are too small to make such an eventuality credible."

13. Weird Orbit:
Our moon does not rotate on its axis. We only ever see one side of the moon. There is what is known as the "dark side of the moon" that we have never seen from Earth. It is the only moon in the solar system that has a stationary, near-perfect circular orbit. Stranger still, the moon's centre of mass is about 6000 feet closer to the Earth than its geometric centre (which should cause wobbling), but the moon's bulge is on the far side of the moon, away from the Earth. "Something or someone" had to put the moon in orbit with its precise altitude, course, and speed.

14. Moon Diameter:
How does one explain the "coincidence" that the moon is just the right distance, coupled with just the right diameter, to completely cover the sun during an eclipse? Again, Isaac Asimov responds, "There is no astronomical reason why the moon and the sun should fit so well. It is the sheerest of coincidences, and only the Earth among all the planets is blessed in this fashion."

15. Spaceship Moon Theory:
As outrageous as it may sound, it is quite possible that the moon is a giant, intelligently designed spaceship, with a specific purpose. The facts lead us convincingly to such an insane conclusion. The only theory that is supported by all of the data, is that the moon is a gigantic extraterrestrial craft, brought here eons ago by intelligent beings, and there is no data that seems to contradict this theory.

(Thank you Ronald Regehr)


Part 3

Before we continue with this week's article I would like to remind you of one very important principle. Do not be swayed by promoters of mediocrity and narrow minded dogma. There is no doubt that you will meet hordes of them in your own quest for real and credible answers. Especially on the subject of the moon, because it is such an emotional and romantic symbol in most people's minds and carries countless historic links to activities of past civilisations.

This does not change the fact that the moon is indeed a very suspicious celestial body, because it does not follow the simple fundamental principles of the universal law of motion as outlined by Einstein in his space time theory.

One very important principle that may have been overlooked by Einstein, but highlighted in great detail by the brilliant physicist Nassiem Haramein and several others, is that everything in the universe spins. The "spinning vortex" principle, as seen at the centre of galaxies is now widely accepted as the motion that gives the universe its energy and allows us to explain previously cumbersome theories about why things happen in a specifically structured way throughout the universe. It seems to be - for now at least - a very good explanation of the mysterious 'dark energy' supposedly created by the dark matter that makes up about 95% of the known universe.

In a subatomic world the electrons spin around the nucleus just like the planets spin around the stars. The solar systems spin around the centre of their galaxies, but they also undergo giant spiral spinning motion as the solar system travels through space.

In other words, our sun and planets never return to the same place in space, as they hurtle trough space.

In a nutshell, everything that makes up the matter in the universe spins. EXCEPT OUR MOON. It is trapped in a near-perfect orbit around our planet with only one side of the moon ever visible to us. This is a phenomenon that is highly suspicious and requires a greater deal of scrutiny without emotional baggage to distract us. Some attempts have been made to convince the public that the moon actually rotates once for every time it orbits Earth, this has been disproved by many astronomers as a case of "bad astronomy". All you have to do is take the binoculars and look at the moon for a few days and you will soon realise that you only ever see the same section. Whether it is in the shade or in the sun.

And while great minds are still arguing about the actual origin of the moon and how it got caught up in Earth's gravitational field, we should be exploring beyond the so-called acceptable realms of science to see what we can find. There are planets in distant solar system of our galaxy that have been found not to spin or rotate on their axis. These are however all gaseous planets and not solid bodies. No other solid planets or moons other than our moon have been found, that do not spin.

There is so much compelling evidence of visual and even physical contact between astronauts, cosmonauts and ET's, that we can no longer deny it nor ignore it. It is also quite obvious is that NASA and other government bodies which include the UN, have sent very clear signs that they are not prepared to enter this debate in the public domain. This forces us to conclude that they are hiding something and will not reveal such information to the global population. This is nothing new and should not surprise us at all since this policy has been followed for many decades by seemingly omnipotent governments who have absolutely no interest in spreading knowledge and information.

In the next article we will cover numerous testimonies by cosmonauts dealing with ET contact. If you still have not worked out why the moon mission suddenly stopped with no plausible reason after Apollo 17, here is a fascinating article that appeared in the Russian newspaper PRAVDA on the 3rd October 2007. This certainly puts a whole new 'spin' on the moon mission's sudden demise.

ALIENS FORCED AMERICANS OUT FROM THE MOON

03.10.2007 Source: Pravda.Ru URL:
http://www.ufocasebook.com/aliensforced.html

One of Russia's central television channels, RTR, has recently aired a documentary about US astronauts who allegedly came across extraterrestrial civilizations. The film showed Russian ufologist Vladimir Azhazha and astronomer Yevgeny Arsyukhin telling that expeditions to the Moon launched within 1969-1972 allegedly came across UFOs.

The researchers state that flying objects of extraterrestrial origin were persistently spying on American Apollos. They said the expeditions to the Moon looked very much like a race and presented a film demonstrating a luminous object closely following an American spaceship. Records of communication between astronauts and the Mission Control Center were also included into the film but they were absolutely inaudible as they had been purposefully jammed by Americans. They expected that the expeditions would find something astonishing on the Moon and with the view of keeping their communication with the surface secret they encoded their messages to the MCC. When the records of communication were later deciphered it turned out that the US missions came across lunar bases, remains of space vehicles and deserted towns on the Moon.

The film stated that lunar creatures would not tolerate the presence of Earth dwellers for long. When Americans brought a dummy car to furrow Moon craters, the creatures living on the satellite began to demonstrate their furious protest against the US presence on the Moon. Filmmakers said that green dwellers of the Moon told Americans to go home as they wanted to keep secret the sublunar bases that they used to observe the life on the Earth. It was alleged that NASA was afraid of conflicting with a highly developed civilization and immediately stopped the program. Does the film sound believable?

In a couple of days, Americans demonstrated their documentary about the Apollo expeditions, In the Shadow of the Moon, with records of the flights to the Moon that were specially processed after the video archives of the Moon program had disappeared. Is it true that the archives were lost? It seems that the CIA wanted to wipe out tracks of a contact between US astronauts and extraterrestrials.

It is an open secret by the way that films demonstrating the landing of American astronauts on the Moon and Neil Armstrong's walk about the lunar surface were lost. What is more, records telling about astronauts' health during the flights to the Moon, information about spaceships and other 700 messages sent from the board of spaceships launched in the framework of the Apollo program are also missing. Before the late 1970s the films had been kept at the US National Archives then were moved to NASA and later disappeared at all. It took NASA officials a year to conduct searches of the films but they managed to find just not more than ten films. Will anyone believe that evidence of US's biggest triumph may so easily disappear from
the NASA archives?

An expertise of the Moon pictures demonstrated in the Russian documentary revealed that they were no ordinary photos but simply some daub. Deputy director of the Comparative Planetology Laboratory Doctor of geological sciences Alexander Bazilevsky says that experts are from time to time requested to conduct an expertise of this type of photos. The Lunar Orbiter stations shot the Moon surface, then developed films right on board the spaceships and telecast them to the surface. As a result of this film development any unexpected things or elements could appear on pictures, and it explains why one of the pictures showed in the documentary had the word 'spire'. In a word, none of the pictures demonstrated in the documentary can be the evidence of aliens' existence on the Moon.

This is strange that films with really important evidence can disappear from NASA. Several years ago, over 100 g of lunar soil and meteorites were stolen from the collection of the Johnson Space Center. And that was not the only incident of the kind there. A former NASA official explained that the unique films had been probably lost after they were several times moved from one place to another within the past forty years.

The NASA official who requested anonymity also told a really interesting story. When President Bush announced recommencement of the lunar program the National Aeronautics and Space Administration asked aged researchers who had taken part in the Apollo expeditions earlier to meet experts who were going to start a new mission. One of the aged researchers who came to the meeting had designed a device to measure lunar radiation. The device could measure radiation before humans landed the planet and could transmit information even when the Apollos were back to the surface. In the framework of the program heaps of records were collected. But when the program was no longer financed and stopped the bobbins with ciphered films were discarded. But the old engineer took the films and placed them to his basement where they are still being kept. Unfortunately there is no opportunity to decipher the films as a special device able to decode such records was also utilized when the program ended.

(Edited waffle).

NASA is going to conduct another mission to the Moon with a spaceship Orion resembling Apollo and stuffed with steroids. It is planned that four astronauts will fly round the Moon in 2018. If the project goes OK a landing module is to land the lunar surface in 2020.

Russia's ambitions as concerning Moon exploration are rather modest. A Russian astronaut may land the planet only as a member of a Chinese-Russian expedition. Chinese researchers are working on this project and invite Russia to participate in it as well.

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.
What a great question. :star:

My comments...




There’s no ‘proof’ as such!





There may be something anomalous about the moon’s density. It doesn't seem to be as ‘solid’ as it ‘should’ be. See this (very interesting!) Wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceship_Moon_Theory






The Spaceship Moon Theory, also known as the Vasin-Shcherbakov Theory, is a hypothesis that claims the Earth's moon may actually be an alien spacecraft. The hypothesis was put forth by two members of the then Soviet Academy of Sciences, Michael Vasin and Alexander Shcherbakov, in a July 1970 article entitled "Is the Moon the Creation of Alien Intelligence?"

Vasin and Shcherbakov's thesis was that the Moon is a hollowed-out planetoid created by unknown beings with technology far superior to any on Earth. Huge machines would have been used to melt rock and form large cavities within the Moon, with the resulting molten lava spewing out onto the Moon's surface. The Moon would therefore consist of a hull-like inner shell and an outer shell made from metallic rocky slag. For reasons unknown, the "Spaceship Moon" was then placed into orbit around the Earth.

Their hypothesis relies heavily on the suggestion that large lunar craters, generally assumed to be formed from meteor impact, are generally too shallow and have flat or even convex bottoms. Small craters have a depth proportional to their diameter but larger craters are not deeper. It is hypothesized that small meteors are making a cup-shaped depression in the rocky surface of the moon while the larger meteors are drilling through a five-mile thick rocky layer and hitting a high-tensile "hull" underneath.

Additionally the authors note that the surface material of the moon is substantially composed of different elements (chromium, titanium and zirconium) from the surface of the Earth. They also note that some moon rocks are older than the oldest rocks on Earth.

They postulate that the moon comprises a rocky outer layer a few miles thick covering a strong hull perhaps 20 miles thick and beneath that there is a void, possibly containing an atmosphere.

In 1975, Don W. Wilson published Our Mysterious Spaceship Moon in which he compiled what he considered supporting facts for this hypothesis.

In 1976 George H. Leonard published Somebody Else is on the Moon in which he reprinted numerous NASA photographs of the lunar surface and suggested that large scale machinery was visible in these pictures.



It’s even more anomalous that the Moon (as seen from Earth) is EXACTLY the same size as the sun. Many people have observed that that looks like ‘intelligent design’.





Camelot witness Henry Deacon (Arthur Neumann) stated here (http://projectcamelot.org/livermore_physicist_4.html) (and he had edited/corrected the page himself to ensure accuracy):





Incredibly, Henry stated that the one moon we have now is known to have been engineered into position eons ago. When we asked if this was done by our ancestors or by our creators, the answer came back "both".

[joeecho]

I've read that in the past, some culture's believed photography steals the subject's soul.

Smile!

http://bestanimations.com/Electronics/Video/camera-taking-pictures-animated-gif-17.gif

[DNA]

Joeecho everyone knows that in order to steal a soul you have to eat it with your palm eye like spaghetti. Hmph soul eating novice. :croc: :fish: :drum:




https://secure.static.tumblr.com/453baad2d25f7a1e370ee208f4a6bc0b/1srnsx7/i3Lnf4lti/tumblr_static__640_v2.gif

[IndigoSpiral]

I must admit here: the topic of soul capture triggers an emotional response from me.


I get irritated when people suggest its possible...

I hear you, myself as well. As a matter of fact, this thread was originally named "A Soul Can Not Be Captured". I'm not sure why Bill felt the need to change the name. I've never had a thread name changed before this. I understand that the name of the thread runs contrary to Bill's own views on the subject. It may be that seeing a contrary opinion on the matter irritates him as much as the reverse does our selves. :tinfoil3:
Upon reflection, I would like to see the name of the thread go back to it's original. I'm going to message the mod team and see what happens. It doesn't hurt to ask. :coffee:

Back to the topic.
:focus:
I don't mind discussing the issue. And in fact I invite dialogue on the matter, because I'm of the opinion that there is a parasitic dark mafia out there if you will, of soul syphoning grease trap dwelling entities that exist for the sole purpose of taking that which is not theirs.
The problem there in lies with our limited conception of what is going on, and in a loaded vocabulary filled with false complete definitions of certain words.
I've never had a decent discourse with anyone on this forum in so far as it relates to the subtle energy bodies associated with our soul and body.
I've brought this up numerous times.
It was my main thrust in the opening of this thread.
And yet I've never had a dialogue on the subject with anyone wishing clarification on the matter or wishing to add something to the matter.
As for myself, it is so obvious that this is the case, I'm in awe that no one wishes to further this line of thinking.
I've said it before and I will say it again, the confusion over this whole question lies in the mortality of those energy bodies and the immortality of the soul.
For more on this see the opening of this thread.


..no doubt it interferes with any objectivity I may have had coming in..

I don't know why I have that response. Maybe its because I just dont wanna believe it.

I think your instincts are good. It makes life and the world as dark and as meaningless as can be. I believe the process of true learning is cutting away the lies we have been conned into believing since we were born.
When that happens, we begin to realize that the truth was always accessible and available. :sun:


Theres another part of me that is just exasperated. It sorta thinks: are we going to take the conspiracy bit *that* far??? Can't we please stop somewhere? Arent there *any* certainties??? Is nothing holy anymore?

As humans we all need a point of relativity...a rock, so to speak.
I absolutely agree here as well. And I think there are other topics here that bring up a similar feeling. For years I couldn't believe or expose myself to all of the MKULTRA stuff. I mean when you start to really go down the rabbit hole it's disturbing on so many levels.


For some people its religion. For some its this...others that. Without this point, we just kind of flail in the wind....or at least I do..

..I need SOMETHING to grab on to...

I prefer to think a soul can't be captured. It's something I choose to believe because of a) all the anecdotal evidence and b) to believe otherwise might launch me into an existential crisis...

It's my point of relativity. My rock. And from this angle I see things a certain way. Tilt the hologram just slightly one way or another and everything looks different..

If the soul can be captured, then God himself/herself must be vulnerable as well. If this is true, everything unravels for me..

In other words, it doesnt really serve me in any way to hold that thought...so I don't.

Amen :highfive::clapping:

Hi all, this subject has had me in a quandary for a while.... I read Michael Newton's books a few years back and have re-read them many times, they really resonate with me. His clients experience themselves as their soul selves from what I can gather, they even reunite with the rest of their essence (there's a whole chapter on the portion of our essence we incarnate with, how we decide how much to bring and the reunification process). Their lives are irrevocably changed for the better after they've experienced their infinite self... I find it really difficult to believe that this is the description of a "soul farm", these people are describing what they're seeing and feeling with awe - in fact a lot of the time they have no words. Once they see strings of lives spanning thousands of years, working on different themes, it all makes sense to them and they finally realise the purpose of their existence. I see MN as a true pioneer in this field, I would be fascinated to hear what he would have to say if presented with this notion of a "soul trap" and false light technology. I'm coming to feel it is another way to keep us in fear of death now that religion isn't working and science is beginning to align with spirituality through quantum physics, morphic resonance, morphogenetic fields and the discovery that our genes have been tampered with.

I wanted to respond, in particular, to DNA about subtle energy bodies connected to the soul and body. I've only got this far in the thread so apologise if this has been addressed further on. I wonder if you have heard of the author Andy Tomlinson? He trained at the Newton Institute in the early days, and has taken his work in very interesting directions. In his excellent book "Exploring the Eternal Soul", souls talk about de-layering after death; ie. shedding energy bodies and emotions which are too dense to take on into the light realms. This is quite a complex and sometimes difficult process depending how entrenched the energies have become. Now, it gets interesting for me when they talk about setting up their next incarnation as they decide which "layers" to bring back with them - they pick some of these energies back up again and decide what they are going to bring back into their subtle energy bodies. This is how people bring back past life traumas maybe? For example people one soul brought "grace" with her into an incarnation as a Victorian orphan girl whereas others may bring back denser, more negative emotions or traumas or even percentages of them to deal with in the next incarnation.

Without going too far into this at the risk of going off topic, is this the kind of thing you meant DNA when you were referring to the subtle energy bodies and how they relate to the soul and body?

Love,
IS

[PathWalker]

As far as my inner wisdom is reflecting.
Souls cannot be trapped, but can be tricked deceived to believe they are captured.

Since the time is illusion, when a soul is released from body and the soul regains her capabilities, the experience is instantaneous.
I wish to remind the reader of an excellent book "Initiation" from Elizabeth Heich (full book here (http://www.znakovi-vremena.net/en/Elisabeth_Haich_Initiation.pdf)).
When the heroine dies in ancient Egypt her soul is tied to the corp in the tomb with a binding thread for 3000 years. But time is illusion for as stated above.

I believe the idea of capture or imprisonment is a state of dis-empowerment and submission. Another kind of infectious viral idea, meme type.

[DNA]

Hi IndigoSpiral
Welcome to Avalon, and welcome to this thread. :)



Hi all, this subject has had me in a quandary for a while.... I read Michael Newton's books a few years back and have re-read them many times, they really resonate with me. His clients experience themselves as their soul selves from what I can gather, they even reunite with the rest of their essence (there's a whole chapter on the portion of our essence we incarnate with, how we decide how much to bring and the reunification process). Their lives are irrevocably changed for the better after they've experienced their infinite self... I find it really difficult to believe that this is the description of a "soul farm", these people are describing what they're seeing and feeling with awe - in fact a lot of the time they have no words. Once they see strings of lives spanning thousands of years, working on different themes, it all makes sense to them and they finally realise the purpose of their existence. I see MN as a true pioneer in this field, I would be fascinated to hear what he would have to say if presented with this notion of a "soul trap" and false light technology. I'm coming to feel it is another way to keep us in fear of death now that religion isn't working and science is beginning to align with spirituality through quantum physics, morphic resonance, morphogenetic fields and the discovery that our genes have been tampered with.


Another page from Michael Newton is how upon death, souls will try to create a message for their most loved ones. Something that will help the loved ones understand and be okay with the soul transitioning to a better place.
I've received one of these from my paternal grandmother. Mine was through a dream the night of her death.
But many folks report this. And Newton takes the time to point out quite a large percentage of souls perform this before they leave.
Would an evil group bent on capturing souls bother with faking a message of love and well being to the recently departed loved ones?
I think not. :no: :no:


You know I give mad props to Michael Newton, but just as influential in my personal idea of the afterlife would be attributed to three books by Chelsea Quan Yarbro listed under the heading of THE MICHAEL TEACHINGS, a channeled work from the 70's that doesn't really get any love, but is solidified in so far as my opinion goes as being legit. The qualifier that must be attained for me to consider channeled teachings is if brilliance/genius is present. Not only is this present in the Micheal Teachings, but it does so in a manner that is amazingly easy to understand. It is peanut butter and jelly with the Michael Newton material in so many ways. Very complementary.





I wanted to respond, in particular, to DNA about subtle energy bodies connected to the soul and body. I've only got this far in the thread so apologise if this has been addressed further on. I wonder if you have heard of the author Andy Tomlinson?


No I have not. I'll have to check him out.





He trained at the Newton Institute in the early days, and has taken his work in very interesting directions. In his excellent book "Exploring the Eternal Soul", souls talk about de-layering after death; ie. shedding energy bodies and emotions which are too dense to take on into the light realms. This is quite a complex and sometimes difficult process depending how entrenched the energies have become.

This is interesting indeed.
I absolutely believe that if there is any truth whatsoever to any of this soul trap thing, it is based on these subtle energy bodies.



Now, it gets interesting for me when they talk about setting up their next incarnation as they decide which "layers" to bring back with them - they pick some of these energies back up again and decide what they are going to bring back into their subtle energy bodies. This is how people bring back past life traumas maybe? For example people one soul brought "grace" with her into an incarnation as a Victorian orphan girl whereas others may bring back denser, more negative emotions or traumas or even percentages of them to deal with in the next incarnation.


Wow, this is exactly where I've always felt The Michael Teachings picked up where Newton left off.
This is an area where the Micheal Teachings specialize.
TMT talk extensively about "choosing" energetic "chief features" and "over leaves". These chief features are "negative" features of which will be with you your whole life. People are always thinking they are supposed to achieve Buddha like ability in this life, but really, it is learning to live as gracefull as you can with your chief feature. And let me tell you something, once you know these negative features you have chosen for yourself, you will be able to deal with yourself on such a much more enlightened basis.
One thing TMT make very clear is this, you will have your chief feature with you your entire life. And as much work as you want to put into fighting it, you will never be rid of it. And this I believe.


Take care
Have a good one
DNA