Banning traditional Christmas-Discriminating against Christians

[SilentFeathers]

This is ridiculous, if these folk's want to have a Christmas Tree, let 'em have one!!!! Sheesh!


Seniors decry ban on Christmas tree in their complex in Newhall

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site200/2012/1205/20121205__BW_DN06-TREE-2AH+PC777RX.JPG

Residents in a Newhall senior apartment complex are protesting an order from management to remove their beloved Christmas tree from the community room because, they were told, it's a religious symbol.

Things like this are happening all over the place in the USA, it's actually quite pathetic and unbelievable IMO.....

...this is even more idiotic.


Church Calls Off ‘Charlie Brown’ Christmas Show Amid Controversy

http://cbscharlotte.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/cbc.jpg?w=300

http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2012/12/05/church-calls-off-charlie-brown-christmas-show-amid-controversy/

It is my opinion that if the Christmas Tree was an Islamic symbol and if Charlie Brown was a Muslim, these two situations mentioned above would not be happening!

[Earth Angel]

Politically correct taken to a whole new level of insanity.....why can't everyone just do what they want and mind their own business.....if you don't like Christmas don't celebrate, if you don't want to cover your face, don't do it ....but leave everyone who DOES want to do these things alone........live and let live!

[soleil]

so TPTB want us to believe religion...but sheeple think there are too many religions...and we should ban mention of all of them...so contradictory...

[SilentFeathers]

This is just another symptom of the PTB conditioning the people to be negative or against anything that has to do with gathering, community, or unity....

[BrianEn]

Well maybe we should just boycott X-mas altogether and not go Christmas shopping. They won't like that even less.

[AriG]

Well maybe we should just boycott X-mas altogether and not go Christmas shopping. They won't like that even less.

Amen to that one brother! I am boycotting " Shopping Season ", " Flu Season " and all Coca-Cola/Hallmark Holidays forever. ( ok, I will have some eggnog)

[TargeT]

Well maybe we should just boycott X-mas altogether and not go Christmas shopping. They won't like that even less.

I'm "down" with this idea, the Pope recently stated that the 25th is just a pagan holiday, so the whole thing seems rather pointless & its modern perversion into gluttony of consumerism has definitely exacerbated the problem with this Holiday (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday)

[Tony]

I smell a branch of COMMON PURPOSE!

[eni-al]

Chritmas has become a culimination of traditions, its become what people want it to be, religious ties or not. Too many people are offended these days by anything.

[Tane Mahuta]

I'm having Xmas, friends & families get together, it's an enjoyable day, a very speacial time of the year. A time for children.

If anybody wants to ban xmas, I say to you..."PISS OFF"!!

But before you go...sit down at my table & have some Xmas dinner with me!!

nuff said

TM

[SilentFeathers]

I'm having Xmas, friends & families get together, it's an enjoyable day, a very speacial time of the year. A time for children.

If anybody wants to ban xmas, I say to you..."PISS OFF"!!

But before you go...sit down at my table & have some Xmas dinner with me!!

nuff said

TM

I'm doing the same...I'm not big on the religion thing, but being with family, loved ones, making sure the kids have fun, and a huge meal together is what it's all about for me.

I like an occasional candy cane too! :)

[markpierre]

Hey, who stole Christmas from the pagans in the first place? Who's gonna steal it from the merchants? You have to wait your turn usurping holidays,
and you have to take your turn having them usurped.

[modwiz]

Politically correct taken to a whole new level of insanity.....why can't everyone just do what they want and mind their own business.....if you don't like Christmas don't celebrate, if you don't want to cover your face, don't do it ....but leave everyone who DOES want to do these things alone........live and let live!

This isn't about politically correct. Even that term is used more as a smokescreen for other agendas. Needless to say, I find the whole anti-xmas thing quite distasteful. Anti celebration of anything that is basically innocuous is more than bad taste and intolerant. It is dangerous. It is a symptom of a disease of the spirit.

America is predominantly christian as are all European counties aside from a few that are muslim. There is a generic culture that comes with religious traditions. The spirit behind the banning of traditional holiday symbols is more than it appears.

[BrianEn]

I'm having Xmas, friends & families get together, it's an enjoyable day, a very speacial time of the year. A time for children.

If anybody wants to ban xmas, I say to you..."PISS OFF"!!

But before you go...sit down at my table & have some Xmas dinner with me!!

nuff said

TM


I like the rest of x-mas other than the orgy of shopping to buy to into debt til the next x-mas season.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Merry Christmas one and all.

[bram]

This is ridiculous, if these folk's want to have a Christmas Tree, let 'em have one!!!! Sheesh!


Seniors decry ban on Christmas tree in their complex in Newhall

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site200/2012/1205/20121205__BW_DN06-TREE-2AH+PC777RX.JPG

Residents in a Newhall senior apartment complex are protesting an order from management to remove their beloved Christmas tree from the community room because, they were told, it's a religious symbol.

Things like this are happening all over the place in the USA, it's actually quite pathetic and unbelievable IMO.....

...this is even more idiotic.


Church Calls Off ‘Charlie Brown’ Christmas Show Amid Controversy

http://cbscharlotte.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/cbc.jpg?w=300

http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2012/12/05/church-calls-off-charlie-brown-christmas-show-amid-controversy/

It is my opinion that if the Christmas Tree was an Islamic symbol and if Charlie Brown was a Muslim, these two situations mentioned above would not be happening!

Hi Silentfeathers,

How exactly did this get to be the Muslims' fault??

Love, bram

[modwiz]

This is ridiculous, if these folk's want to have a Christmas Tree, let 'em have one!!!! Sheesh!

It is my opinion that if the Christmas Tree was an Islamic symbol and if Charlie Brown was a Muslim, these two situations mentioned above would not be happening!

Hi Silentfeathers,

How exactly did this get to be the Muslims' fault??

Love, bram

Good question. I almost withheld my thanks because of this remark. I decided it may have not been meant the way it seemed, especially since what it was meant to confer was not clear to me. LOL

[TargeT]

This is ridiculous, if these folk's want to have a Christmas Tree, let 'em have one!!!! Sheesh!

It is my opinion that if the Christmas Tree was an Islamic symbol and if Charlie Brown was a Muslim, these two situations mentioned above would not be happening!

Hi Silentfeathers,

How exactly did this get to be the Muslims' fault??

Love, bram

Good question. I almost withheld my thanks because of this remark. I decided it may have not been meant the way it seemed, especially since what it was meant to confer was not clear to me. LOL

he was commenting on the special treatment that Islam is receiving in nearly every country, even here in america Sharia creep is expanding and gaining more power.

I think it is an over compensation on the part of the "PC" crowd (which it was mentioned by MODWIZ is just a cover for other motives).

this comment was not meant to bring focus on Islam or decry it, it was meant to bring attention to the hypocrisy that allows sharia law but condemns christian tradition that this (and many) countries was built on

at least.... that is how I read it, could be wrong ;)

[modwiz]

This is ridiculous, if these folk's want to have a Christmas Tree, let 'em have one!!!! Sheesh!

It is my opinion that if the Christmas Tree was an Islamic symbol and if Charlie Brown was a Muslim, these two situations mentioned above would not be happening!

Hi Silentfeathers,

How exactly did this get to be the Muslims' fault??

Love, bram

Good question. I almost withheld my thanks because of this remark. I decided it may have not been meant the way it seemed, especially since what it was meant to confer was not clear to me. LOL

he was commenting on the special treatment that Islam is receiving in nearly every country, even here in america Sharia creep is expanding and gaining more power.

I think it is an over compensation on the part of the "PC" crowd (which it was mentioned by MODWIZ is just a cover for other motives).

this comment was not meant to bring focus on Islam or decry it, it was meant to bring attention to the hypocrisy that allows sharia law but condemns christian tradition that this (and many) countries was built on

at least.... that is how I read it, could be wrong ;)

I am aware of that perception by some. Thank you. I see it less as hypocrisy and more of one group allowing itself to be abused more. Sharia is also very misunderstood. In the hands of enlightened Muslims, ( Islamic scholars would have reams of such evidence), Sharia law would be preferable to the abomination we have in this country now. We are only aware of it being used by fundamentalists, yahoos in any religion. Think of the movie Deliverance and there is the mindset. Still, I do not see such an encroachment. It belongs to a culture different than ours and is not hidden in clever wordings.

BTW, I did thank SF's post from the start. Yours too.

[SilentFeathers]

The Islam comment I made was not an attack or insult towards Muslims or Islam in general, or at all, I was basically referring to the double standard that we are seeing when it comes to discriminating against these two religious groups.....or the strange double standards we are seeing.

At least that is my perspective/observation, others may see it differently.

Example: someone draws a cartoon as a joke about Muhammad or make a somewhat negative public comment about Islam you see countries go up in smoke or bombings happening etc.....

Nothing much happens whe6n you draw a joke about Jesus, ban Christmas trees, remove the word GOD from traditional documents etc etc etc..

Seems to be a pretty big double standard or contradiction in my opinion....

I respect both religions to a certain extent, but I also have my own personal problems with them too as too not agreeing with some of the things they are based on......

Why these religions (or others) are starting to manipulate and control the behaviors of people inside and outside of their "congregation" is like what someone ealier mentioned....."There is a lot more to it".

[kaon]

This subject hits a little sore spot for me. The "war against Christmas" (and Christians) has been gaining momentum for the last 10 years. It has nothing to do with the Muslims. A lot of people don't understand that the atheist movement is very powerful. They are outspoken, and devout Christians are getting trampled upon with little fanfare. This is largely to do with passivise teaching to today's Christians. We are always told to be humble and turn the other cheek.

There is also a very strong Jewish movement in the U.S. which opposes outward displays of Christianity at this time of year. Some Jews have felt that they had to keep their displays of Judaism behind closed doors for many years, and they want Christians to do the same now. They oppose the nativity scenes with a passion. I have seen this and heard this every year and have first hand experience, so this is not just my opinion.

Then we have the politically correct movement. They have done damage year round, but we see it every day at this time of year. It's not a Christmas tree, but a "holiday" tree. It's "happy holidays", not Merry Christmas because everyone is so afraid to offend someone else.

A work associate of mine who is Jewish once called my tree a "holiday tree". I told him it was a Christmas tree and he told me that holiday tree is more appropriate but when I called his menorah a "holiday candle stick" he went into a tirade. Double standard to say the least.

I don't want to suppress any other peoples religion or even the atheists. The trampling should stop.

[SilentFeathers]

It's also a major conflict with the first amendment when people are forced to call it a "Holiday Tree" instead of a Christmas Tree.....it's also conflicting when they force these older folk's to remove their tree out of their community room because it is a "Religious Symbol" that may offend someone. Who is it really offending? and why? that is the question.

Whats next? outlawing and fining people for hanging "Christmas" lights in their yard????? because these lights may represent someone celebrating "Christ" mas instead of "Holiday"mas?????

I just see all of this completely ridiculous....especially in the OP with forcing these older folks to remove this tree against their wishes!

[BrianEn]

They want us to change everything but still go shopping. Its enough to get me to cuss up a storm.

[Flash]

Devout Christians are too devout, fundamentalist Muslims are too fundamentalists, Zionists are too zionists, don't you see that is the extremes that brings in fights, discontent, and war amongst humans. The atheist movement is very small Kaon, not big at all if compared with devout christians, fundamentalist muslims and zionists.

A christmas tree is a christmas tree and a menorah is a menorah. Is the world going nuts. But your idea of holiday candle stick I will remember when facing hard core every one the same and everything dull down politically correct people. We have to find one for Muslims, to be able to show how far stupidity goes.

Now, if I am politically correct, I will ask for the holiday tree (lol) in Time Square to be taken down, it is a religious symbol.

O Gosh worst, when I type Time Square Christmas Tree, what comes out is Rockerfeller Center Christmas Tree. Promoted by zionists christmas tree I am lost.....

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/11/29/157146289_620x465.jpg

[Arrowwind]

Personally, this whole idea that Christians turn the other cheek is unfounded to me.
It was Christians who have condemed me to hell for my beliefs
as well as friends who didn't belong to the "correct" Christian religion.
They have a way of turning the other cheek that is full of hypocracy.

If I remember correctly Christians have done alot of abuse towards them
who believe differently over the last couple of thousand years.
They have also abused their own who don't follow suit.

This turning of the other cheek has historically been only a smoke screen
so that they can continue to run their subversive agenda.

There is no greater abuse spiritually than condeming someone to hell
and separating them off through shunning and repeated condemnations
amongst the community.

So I by and large stay away from Christians unless they are highly evolved
and fortunatley they are around.

Recently I was subjected once again to this foul agenda when I attended the funeral
of a man I cared for. Though the whole sermon I was slammed with condemantion
for what I believed and litterly condemed to hell, even though they didn't signal me out personally.
These kind of condemantions go on routinely in many churches. They dont single out individuals,
they single out whole paradigms of consciousness and ways of interrelating with the world as a
spiritual being.

This man, who they had harranged on his death bed to accept Jesus Christ into his life
before it was too late, he told me, also on his death bed, that he had to go along with them
and acutally go through the born again ritual they wanted so they would leave him alone.
Imagine having to go through that on your death bed.

They turn their cheek when you decide to agree with them
- and when you fill their coffers as well.

I'd say that what goes around comes around

[Debra]

They want us to change everything but still go shopping. Its enough to get me to cuss up a storm.

This is a fascinating point. What is going on here? What does it serve TPTB to engineer people's lust for the christmas shop and forsake the passive motherlode income that comes with it? Burning ideologies is not just the agenda here, it is more complex than that. The muslim and zionist rhetoric, the atheist movement, the politically correct movement - they are all just tools of a greater agenda but what is that?

On a daily, down to earth level though folks, I am not going to pussy foot around about what is happening as a result of clashing meta story lines, systemic thinking, attitudes and behaviours that exist every day because of this. Here in Sweden alone, there is an (extreme) muslim agenda working very successfully, as well as a zionist agenda to slap down christian, but also european white culture.

Let's call this state of emergency for what it is because your average person who affiliates with any one of these orders of thinking will and does push their agenda and will gladly quote the justification of the politically correct who are woven into every strata of government - to declare one set of traditions that likes to call a tree with loved ornaments and tinsel and lights a christmas tree as inappropriate just because the name offend the sensibilities and beliefs of another. Well, I am offended that one tradition and culture has the audacity to decide that my choice of celebration has lesser value than their choices of tradition. The danger that I am alerting to here, is that extremist stances are actually becoming more mainstream amongst different cultures, and I am aware of this every day in a country that has opened its doors wide in the last 30 years or so to predominantly immigrants with muslim beliefs. The celebrations of Jul (christmas) are deep in traditional swedish life. Yet ethnic Swedes have been progressively told to shut up and go along with changes that range from the title of christmas to even having 'no dog' zones in cities and towns across the country because of muslim sensitivities. Swedes LOVE their dogs, they are part of the family. Some families are even being told to leave their homes to make way for the housing of new immigrants. The list goes on ... where will this end?

[kaon]

Personally, this whole idea that Christians turn the other cheek is unfounded to me.
It was Christians who have condemed me to hell for my beliefs
as well as friends who didn't belong to the "correct" Christian religion.
They have a way of turning the other cheek that is full of hypocracy.

If I remember correctly Christians have done alot of abuse towards them
who believe differently over the last couple of thousand years.
They have also abused their own who don't follow suit.

This turning of the other cheek has historically been only a smoke screen
so that they can continue to run their subversive agenda.

There is no greater abuse spiritually than condeming someone to hell
and separating them off through shunning and repeated condemnations
amongst the community.

So I by and large stay away from Christians unless they are highly evolved
and fortunatley they are around.

Recently I was subjected once again to this foul agenda when I attended the funeral
of a man I cared for. Though the whole sermon I was slammed with condemantion
for what I believed and litterly condemed to hell, even though they didn't signal me out personally.
These kind of condemantions go on routinely in many churches. They dont single out individuals,
they single out whole paradigms of consciousness and ways of interrelating with the world as a
spiritual being.

This man, who they had harranged on his death bed to accept Jesus Christ into his life
before it was too late, he told me, also on his death bed, that he had to go along with them
and acutally go through the born again ritual they wanted so they would leave him alone.
Imagine having to go through that on your death bed.

They turn their cheek when you decide to agree with them
- and when you fill their coffers as well.

I'd say that what goes around comes around

Arrowind. I can appreciate where you are coming from. I can only relay what I see and believe personally. I can hope that I am evolved enough. I checked my knuckles and I have not been walking on them ;) jk

I am sorry that your friend had such a bad experience during his final days. That story does sadden me, but the Christians who wanted to help him through the door of the next phase only had goodness in their hearts. More then likely it was relatives or close friends. It's not like strangers were harassing him in his final days.
Hopefully your friend has reached a new destination.

I also want to address your condemnation comments. I do agree that it is an extreme view and one that I have often toiled with and I do not believe that non Christians are condemned. I learned a long time ago to avoid the subject. When I questioned that theory with a church elder, I was shut down with a short answer. It was not worth a further debate. We can be open minded and still be Christians, but unfortunately not all.

[bram]

The Islam comment I made was not an attack or insult towards Muslims or Islam in general, or at all, I was basically referring to the double standard that we are seeing when it comes to discriminating against these two religious groups.....or the strange double standards we are seeing.

At least that is my perspective/observation, others may see it differently.

Example: someone draws a cartoon as a joke about Muhammad or make a somewhat negative public comment about Islam you see countries go up in smoke or bombings happening etc.....

Nothing much happens whe6n you draw a joke about Jesus, ban Christmas trees, remove the word GOD from traditional documents etc etc etc..

Seems to be a pretty big double standard or contradiction in my opinion....

I respect both religions to a certain extent, but I also have my own personal problems with them too as too not agreeing with some of the things they are based on......

Why these religions (or others) are starting to manipulate and control the behaviors of people inside and outside of their "congregation" is like what someone ealier mentioned....."There is a lot more to it".

Hi Silentfeathers,

My comment about the Muslims was a little sharper than it should have been- apologies and a Merry Christmas! (if we get past 21/12) ;)

I lived in the Middle East and worked with and amongst muslims for a few years, and I found most of them to be kind hearted, intelligent and humane, however I did everything in my power to stay away from discussing religion with them, as I found that generally they were brainwashed by their faith in a way that Christians probably were in the middle ages.

Which would make sense, as their religion is a few hundred years 'newer'. Remember when we were burning witches and torturing heretics? So, yes, you have to be much more careful around Muslims than around Christians (except the Evangelical type, who come at you at the first scent of a convert)

IMO, a lot of this has to do with the Arabic language. It is not possible to speak 'secular' Arabic, everything is phrased in religious terms; to speak Arabic makes you sound like a Muslim.

Love, bram

[SilentFeathers]

The Islam comment I made was not an attack or insult towards Muslims or Islam in general, or at all, I was basically referring to the double standard that we are seeing when it comes to discriminating against these two religious groups.....or the strange double standards we are seeing.

At least that is my perspective/observation, others may see it differently.

Example: someone draws a cartoon as a joke about Muhammad or make a somewhat negative public comment about Islam you see countries go up in smoke or bombings happening etc.....

Nothing much happens whe6n you draw a joke about Jesus, ban Christmas trees, remove the word GOD from traditional documents etc etc etc..

Seems to be a pretty big double standard or contradiction in my opinion....

I respect both religions to a certain extent, but I also have my own personal problems with them too as too not agreeing with some of the things they are based on......

Why these religions (or others) are starting to manipulate and control the behaviors of people inside and outside of their "congregation" is like what someone ealier mentioned....."There is a lot more to it".

Hi Silentfeathers,

My comment about the Muslims was a little sharper than it should have been- apologies and a Merry Christmas! (if we get past 21/12) ;)

I lived in the Middle East and worked with and amongst muslims for a few years, and I found most of them to be kind hearted, intelligent and humane, however I did everything in my power to stay away from discussing religion with them, as I found that generally they were brainwashed by their faith in a way that Christians probably were in the middle ages.

Which would make sense, as their religion is a few hundred years 'newer'. Remember when we were burning witches and torturing heretics? So, yes, you have to be much more careful around Muslims than around Christians (except the Evangelical type, who come at you at the first scent of a convert)

IMO, a lot of this has to do with the Arabic language. It is not possible to speak 'secular' Arabic, everything is phrased in religious terms; to speak Arabic makes you sound like a Muslim.

Love, bram

Merry Christmas to you too...

I'm on my 50th orbit and I'm not about to start calling it a "Holiday Tree!" :)

[SilentFeathers]

This is what Christmas is all about for me; Making a gingerbread train with my daughter! (They haven't banned gingerbread yet!!!!)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-pvWKlKIfhdg/UMPX_pKwpsI/AAAAAAAAD8A/4HPRio3FuVw/s640/GingerTrain.JPG

[shadowstalker]

All I know is that a true Christian would not even bother with a Christmas tree, a true christian would have no need for it.

But hey I personally like the lights and stuff, and love making home made presents.

[shadowstalker]

Personally, this whole idea that Christians turn the other cheek is unfounded to me.
It was Christians who have condemed me to hell for my beliefs
as well as friends who didn't belong to the "correct" Christian religion.
They have a way of turning the other cheek that is full of hypocracy.

If I remember correctly Christians have done alot of abuse towards them
who believe differently over the last couple of thousand years.
They have also abused their own who don't follow suit.

This turning of the other cheek has historically been only a smoke screen
so that they can continue to run their subversive agenda.

There is no greater abuse spiritually than condeming someone to hell
and separating them off through shunning and repeated condemnations
amongst the community.

So I by and large stay away from Christians unless they are highly evolved
and fortunatley they are around.

Recently I was subjected once again to this foul agenda when I attended the funeral
of a man I cared for. Though the whole sermon I was slammed with condemantion
for what I believed and litterly condemed to hell, even though they didn't signal me out personally.
These kind of condemantions go on routinely in many churches. They dont single out individuals,
they single out whole paradigms of consciousness and ways of interrelating with the world as a
spiritual being.

This man, who they had harranged on his death bed to accept Jesus Christ into his life
before it was too late, he told me, also on his death bed, that he had to go along with them
and acutally go through the born again ritual they wanted so they would leave him alone.
Imagine having to go through that on your death bed.

They turn their cheek when you decide to agree with them
- and when you fill their coffers as well.

I'd say that what goes around comes around

Karma sure is a kicker aint it

[BrianEn]

Now I'm starting think this a plot to get us mad at these people. TPTB are always trying to pull stuff like that.Keep us angry at each other that way we can't come together as unified people. You don't need to believe in Jesus for Christmas just believe in your fellow person and good will all. If we stand united we can not be divided.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNYLz0zLnaQ

[Daughter of Time]

I really feel for those folks in the nursing home. The Christimas Tree is probably one of the major highlights of their now rather inactive and probably joyless lives. To deprive them of something that is so precious to them is cruel.

Although decorated trees during the holiday season are considered a Christian symbol, to me, they are much more than that. The "Christmas Tree" is the symbol of everlasting life. Like the evergreen which does not die in the winter, the soul does not die after death. This is the true meaning of the Christmas Tree to me. They bring cheerfulness during cold December nights. I would hate to see them banned.

[Kindling]

Now I'm starting think this a plot to get us mad at these people. TPTB are always trying to pull stuff like that.Keep us angry at each other that way we can't come together as unified people. You don't need to believe in Jesus for Christmas just believe in your fellow person and good will all. If we stand united we can not be divided.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNYLz0zLnaQ

LOL Bri, that's a helluva C-mas song! Love it! I enjoy the lights, the celebration, the giving but don't put any religious politics into it.

[BrianEn]

I really feel for those folks in the nursing home. The Christimas Tree is probably one of the major highlights of their now rather inactive and probably joyless lives. To deprive them of something that is so precious to them is cruel.

Although decorated trees during the holiday season are considered a Christian symbol, to me, they are much more than that. The "Christmas Tree" is the symbol of everlasting life. Like the evergreen which does not die in the winter, the soul does not die after death. This is the true meaning of the Christmas Tree to me. They bring cheerfulness during cold December nights. I would hate to see them banned.




That is sad. I spent nine months in the hospital last year and I'll tell you that you get bored. For me personally I don't have a tree, I'm a single bachelor, but if I a wife and or kids I'd most likely have one. However to take that from people who worked all their lives to make our countries strong, defended us in wars, no matter the reason for the wars, to take some something at the twilight of their years is just plain mean. This over=governence is just way to far.