So, you think you are awake.

[Tony]

So, you think you are awake.

Why?

Is it because you have heard or seen what is going on in the world?
Is it because you have heard or seen aliens?
Is it because you think you are ascending?
Is it because of some other reason?

How do you know you are awake, and not still caught up in a dream?
It is all very well to say, “I awoke”, but what does that mean?

What do you 'know' about truth?

Being awake is being enlightened, are you enlightened?
Do you ever entertain the idea that you may be misguided?

When we are dreaming, everything seems real, but it is not,
it all takes place in the mind. When we finish the dream and so-call wake up,
everything we experience still takes place in the mind.

We are only aware of anything happening, in the mind.
The message comes via the senses
to the brain, then to the mind, and awareness notes it.
By then the thing outside has moved on, in time.

It is only when we have gone beyond the mind, and rest in essence,
in timeless time, that the word wake applies.

Where are you when you are 'awake'?




Tony.

[RMorgan]

Hey Tony,

I couldn´t agree more.

Being "awake" is not quite a good definition for being aware of what´s going on politically/economically/socially in the world.

Of course, being aware of such issues is a good step towards perceiving a bigger picture, but it´s just the begining.

Using the dream metaphor, I think life is pretty much like the movie Inception, or maybe like an onion and its layers...You wake up from a dream just to realize you´re dreaming again, and so on.

Saying to yourself that you´re definitively awake may create the false feeling of already having all the answers, which may stop you from continuing your search for the truth.

For me, my awaking process is still a continuous work...Every year I realize how blind I was an year before.

I´ve already realized, for a long time, the lies behind politics, economy and the mainstream media. Now I´m in the painful process of realizing that the alternative media nowadays isn´t much different from its rich cousin at all...This makes me feel a little lost, but everybody gets a little lost sometimes...it´s part of the process.

Cheers,

Raf.

[Tony]

If life 'your teacher' makes you feel uncomfortable, be grateful.
If life 'your teacher' makes you feel irritable, be grateful.
If life 'your teacher' makes you feel angry, be grateful.

It means you are learning, and not stuck in a rut.

If life 'your teacher' makes you feel comfortable, you have just gone back to sleep.

[SilentFeathers]

I must be a good teacher as I often make people uncomfortable with my insights and perceptions! LOL!

[Swan]

The day I manage to stay heartcentered with my kids, partner and parents...is the day I will say I am awake.

[Tony]

A good teacher will not let you get away with sloppiness - teacher loves you too much for that!

[SilentFeathers]

I wrote this several years ago......

"A great teacher must first and foremost become a great student, and must always remain a great student"

[The23rdman]

God, this post has just preempted my first thread. I like it.

We can honestly say 'I am awake' when the idea seems absurd and we would never say it because there is no longer any identification with the residual ego-mind.

Anything else is just a different dream.

[gooty64]

I am relatively aware and partially awake.:third:

[westhill]

If life 'your teacher' makes you feel uncomfortable, be grateful.
If life 'your teacher' makes you feel irritable, be grateful.
If life 'your teacher' makes you feel angry, be grateful.

It means you are learning, and not stuck in a rut.

If life 'your teacher' makes you feel comfortable, you have just gone back to sleep.


You're awake if 'your teacher' is yourself.

[soleil]

these days i am grateful for distractions and challenges - as i get to practice being (awake).

[Tony]

I dream of being awake!;)

[bram]

Hi Tony,

Serendipitously, I was thinking about starting a thread today on awakening!

I was thinking about the story about when the Buddha was walking down the road and a guy coming the other way noticed his Prescence and asked him "are you a god, or a demon?". And the Buddha replied, neither- I am awake.

Awakening in this respect means enlightenment, and can be compared to awaking from a dream- the dream of form wherein Consciousness is dreaming an entire world just the way we do when we sleep. Our normal lives can be compared to the experience of lucid dreaming- we think we are awake and conscious in our dreams- of course, we are still dreaming totally. (except on those rare occasions). What we will finally awaken to, of course we cannnot know until we ourselves become enlightened.

But there is also a form of psychological awakening, which is what may people refer to in Avalon- this is when we realise that the world is not as it seems, and the cracks in the dream of form begin to show. Unfortunately, this may manifest in paranoia for some, but it is the first (and painful) step in the final awakening. IMO a lot of conspiracy theories have more to do witih the workings of collective egos (as I have said often before!) than with actual plots against the human race; the end result can be remarkably similar due to the impact of Groupthink in our collective (un)consciousness.

Anway, that was what I was going to say in my post on awakening, thats my tuppence worth.

Love (and enlightenment) to all...... bram

[bram]

If life 'your teacher' makes you feel uncomfortable, be grateful.
If life 'your teacher' makes you feel irritable, be grateful.
If life 'your teacher' makes you feel angry, be grateful.

It means you are learning, and not stuck in a rut.

If life 'your teacher' makes you feel comfortable, you have just gone back to sleep.


And if your teacher whacks you over the back of your head, you're probably a Zen monk............

[Dorjezigzag]

I was going to do a thread similar to this, I think threads like this have come around before but probably not with your buddhist spin on it which is great by the way.

I am going to come from another angle

What i was going to say is that I am interested in quite a lot of fringe politics and also fringe spiritual groups. I have attended meetings and one thing I have noticed is that many believe that they are the ones that are awake and that everyone else is not.

I have an interest in green politics and what do many members call themselves, you guessed it 'awake', and woe betide you challenge their set co2 belief with talk of sun spots etc, expect to be cast down when you talk about the possibility of energy devises such as cold fusion and Tesla technology.

I have a friend who is into Libertarian politics, I have many sympathies with there core beliefs because of my spiritual beliefs which always envisions a golden age that does not require law or government so I have attended some meetings. But when I mention that the countries that I view as the fairest and nicest places to live are the Scandinavian countries which are essentially socialist this does not go down well. They just want to see that government is bad and that is exactly what they will see.

I think the dominant belief of being awake within this community is the awareness of hidden hands behind what we are led to believe to be the system of government and control. That all is not what it seems, as is suggested by much evidence. Although actually there are many different beliefs among the members on the details of who is involved and how it runs.

One persons awake being another s asleep.

What you will see is people who define a world view or nature of conspiracy, they will connect certain dots to represent this belief but the problem is they will ignore the dots that don't fit in that world view or that contradict it.

Most people, organisations and governments are contradictory, there are many factors at play, but in wanting to feel in control people will simplify them to fit into a system that makes them think they know the answer.

On this web site before I have made the connection between enlightenment and the concept of being awake. Indeed that is actually a term used for the enlightened.

One of the concepts associated with enlightenment is emptiness and this is achieved through raising above attachments.
One of the greatest attachments is our attachment to beliefs, we want to believe that the world is exactly as we have defined it that it exactly fits into the box that we have given it. We only see what fits into the box if it does not fit we do not see it.

Raising above attachments gives us clarity

[greybeard]

If life 'your teacher' makes you feel uncomfortable, be grateful.
If life 'your teacher' makes you feel irritable, be grateful.
If life 'your teacher' makes you feel angry, be grateful.

It means you are learning, and not stuck in a rut.

If life 'your teacher' makes you feel comfortable, you have just gone back to sleep.


And if your teacher whacks you over the back of your head, you're probably a Zen monk............

My mammy, the first guru, did that ofZen and called me a monk--- or was it little monkey?

Sorry couldn’t resist.

Chris

[BrianEn]

I'm kinda awake, my eyes are open and am rubbing the sleep from my eyes. Got the water running for the coffee.

[OOO]

So who says that becoming enlightened will solve all your problems or make you more than you already are? Aren't we all perfect in our imperfections. Why dream about enlightenement? Why seek anything at all? You are all PERFECTION as you are and serve a far greater purpose by being just as you are

I belive you will still experience pain but no suffering....have greater control of the mind....unconditional love...

And then the question:

What will you do when you reach enlightenment?

[Tony]

So who says that becoming enlightened will solve all your problems or make you more than you already are? Aren't we all perfect in our imperfections. Why dream about enlightenement? Why seek anything at all? You are all PERFECTION as you are and serve a far greater purpose by being just as you are

I belive you will still experience pain but no suffering....have greater control of the mind....unconditional love...

And then the question:

What will you do when you reach enlightenment?




That begs the question, "Do you think, this is as good as it gets?" ;)


Tony

[Sidney]

So, you think you are awake.

Why?

Is it because you have heard or seen what is going on in the world?
Is it because you have heard or seen aliens?
Is it because you think you are ascending?
Is it because of some other reason?

How do you know you are awake, and not still caught up in a dream?
It is all very well to say, “I awoke”, but what does that mean?

What do you 'know' about truth?

Being awake is being enlightened, are you enlightened?
Do you ever entertain the idea that you may be misguided?

When we are dreaming, everything seems real, but it is not,
it all takes place in the mind. When we finish the dream and so-call wake up,
everything we experience still takes place in the mind.

We are only aware of anything happening, in the mind.
The message comes via the senses
to the brain, then to the mind, and awareness notes it.
By then the thing outside has moved on, in time.

It is only when we have gone beyond the mind, and rest in essence,
in timeless time, that the word wake applies.

Where are you when you are 'awake'?




Tony.


Good morning Tony, I feel that perhaps I am not quite awake, but not asleep either. Just somewhere in between. My eyes are open (all three of them : ) and I won't be truly awake until my current body is no longer with me.

[Wookie]

Saying I'm awake puts me to sleep. Realizing I'm asleep awakens me to the endless possibilities. Being open to unlimited possibilities is akin to a lucid dream state. If I had a tail I would chase it.
http://www.incase.de/dailycomics/2009.05.24/Calvin%20and%20Hobbes-2009.05.24

Always be mindful of the "other" that/those who are not "awake". To be one must accept both.

Peaceful Journeys Wookie

[OOO]

I love your posts. They always make me realize how little I know and I thank you for that.

Well as far as I understand, with my puny little brain, is that as souls we cannot wait for the chance to incarnate into earthlings.
Is not the fun in the struggle and the ripping emotions? How boring it would be if all was euphoric!

So my answer is ...who the heck knows the answer...certainly not me...

[Tony]

I love your posts. They always make me realize how little I know and I thank you for that.

Well as far as I understand, with my puny little brain, is that as souls we cannot wait for the chance to incarnate into earthlings.
Is not the fun in the struggle and the ripping emotions? How boring it would be if all was euphoric!

So my answer is ...who the heck knows the answer...certainly not me...



Dear OOO,

You make an excellent point .... "if all was euphoric"!

It is said, that it is precisely because we are in the Dark Age that the faster progress can be made. As you say, "All those emotions!"...juicy emotions!
If we all 'happy clappy' we would not bother. My guess is that is exactly what social engineering was all about...dumbing us down.


Yours
Tony

[Tarka the Duck]

Am I the only one for whom hearing the claim, "I am awake" rings alarm bells?? :rolleyes:

From an absolute, spiritual point of view, "I" am "awake" is an oxymoron.
From a relative, worldly point of view, how would you know you hadn't just awoken into another dream?

[Tony]

So, you think you are awake.

Why?

Is it because you have heard or seen what is going on in the world?
Is it because you have heard or seen aliens?
Is it because you think you are ascending?
Is it because of some other reason?

How do you know you are awake, and not still caught up in a dream?
It is all very well to say, “I awoke”, but what does that mean?

What do you 'know' about truth?

Being awake is being enlightened, are you enlightened?
Do you ever entertain the idea that you may be misguided?

When we are dreaming, everything seems real, but it is not,
it all takes place in the mind. When we finish the dream and so-call wake up,
everything we experience still takes place in the mind.

We are only aware of anything happening, in the mind.
The message comes via the senses
to the brain, then to the mind, and awareness notes it.
By then the thing outside has moved on, in time.

It is only when we have gone beyond the mind, and rest in essence,
in timeless time, that the word wake applies.

Where are you when you are 'awake'?




Tony.


Good morning Tony, I feel that perhaps I am not quite awake, but not asleep either. Just somewhere in between. My eyes are open (all three of them : ) and I won't be truly awake until my current body is no longer with me.



Dear Starchild111,

Just for safety reasons I'll feel we must clarify something here, just in case someone gets the idea to shorten their life to be enlightened.
I know you do not mean that, but just in case anyone gets the wrong idea.

One can be 'awake' in this body, this is just a matter of awareness being aware of awareness, finding nothing happening,
and realising it is just pure perception- uncontaminated! It is that pure and simple. That is called...BUD!

However we still have an accumulation of habitual patterning, which has to be exhausted -purified. That is called...DHA!

So, pure perception + purifies karma =BUDDHA! = Enlightenment. There are many buddhas.




All the best,
Tony

[The23rdman]

So who says that becoming enlightened will solve all your problems or make you more than you already are? Aren't we all perfect in our imperfections. Why dream about enlightenement? Why seek anything at all? You are all PERFECTION as you are and serve a far greater purpose by being just as you are

I belive you will still experience pain but no suffering....have greater control of the mind....unconditional love...

And then the question:

What will you do when you reach enlightenment?

What will you do when you reach enlightenment? Nothing, because 'you' will not be there. The awakening is from the dream of a personal self. That is all.

[Tony]

I was going to do a thread similar to this, I think threads like this have come around before but probably not with your buddhist spin on it which is great by the way.

I am going to come from another angle

What i was going to say is that I am interested in quite a lot of fringe politics and also fringe spiritual groups. I have attended meetings and one thing I have noticed is that many believe that they are the ones that are awake and that everyone else is not.

I have an interest in green politics and what do many members call themselves, you guessed it 'awake', and woe betide you challenge their set co2 belief with talk of sun spots etc, expect to be cast down when you talk about the possibility of energy devises such as cold fusion and Tesla technology.

I have a friend who is into Libertarian politics, I have many sympathies with there core beliefs because of my spiritual beliefs which always envisions a golden age that does not require law or government so I have attended some meetings. But when I mention that the countries that I view as the fairest and nicest places to live are the Scandinavian countries which are essentially socialist this does not go down well. They just want to see that government is bad and that is exactly what they will see.

I think the dominant belief of being awake within this community is the awareness of hidden hands behind what we are led to believe to be the system of government and control. That all is not what it seems, as is suggested by much evidence. Although actually there are many different beliefs among the members on the details of who is involved and how it runs.

One persons awake being another s asleep.

What you will see is people who define a world view or nature of conspiracy, they will connect certain dots to represent this belief but the problem is they will ignore the dots that don't fit in that world view or that contradict it.

Most people, organisations and governments are contradictory, there are many factors at play, but in wanting to feel in control people will simplify them to fit into a system that makes them think they know the answer.

On this web site before I have made the connection between enlightenment and the concept of being awake. Indeed that is actually a term used for the enlightened.

One of the concepts associated with enlightenment is emptiness and this is achieved through raising above attachments.
One of the greatest attachments is our attachment to beliefs, we want to believe that the world is exactly as we have defined it that it exactly fits into the box that we have given it. We only see what fits into the box if it does not fit we do not see it.

Raising above attachments gives us clarity



Hello Dorje,

You are so right, and attachments can be very subtle and sticky.
When on retreat and a shrine is put up, some students do some very strange things in front of it!
I say to myself, "I am detached from such ritual" ...but I feel am a tad attached to that feeling!

...in essence there is no place for 'me' to hide!:o



Yours,
Tony

[Pilgrim]

Tony, you always come up with many inspirational thoughts. Thank you. Lovely thread again. I like that...

If I take it vice versa, and I acknowledge, "I am dreaming". Isn´t that a first step towards being awake? And if yes, what about then? How many steps then shall I do to reach that state of being enlightened? One, ten, millions, none?

In my case, as always, more questions available then real answers. At least I know, if I don´t have any answer, I am not there, so I am stuck in my dreams, ha ha..

;)

[Sidney]

So, you think you are awake.

Why?

Is it because you have heard or seen what is going on in the world?
Is it because you have heard or seen aliens?
Is it because you think you are ascending?
Is it because of some other reason?

How do you know you are awake, and not still caught up in a dream?
It is all very well to say, “I awoke”, but what does that mean?

What do you 'know' about truth?

Being awake is being enlightened, are you enlightened?
Do you ever entertain the idea that you may be misguided?

When we are dreaming, everything seems real, but it is not,
it all takes place in the mind. When we finish the dream and so-call wake up,
everything we experience still takes place in the mind.

We are only aware of anything happening, in the mind.
The message comes via the senses
to the brain, then to the mind, and awareness notes it.
By then the thing outside has moved on, in time.

It is only when we have gone beyond the mind, and rest in essence,
in timeless time, that the word wake applies.

Where are you when you are 'awake'?




Tony.


Good morning Tony, I feel that perhaps I am not quite awake, but not asleep either. Just somewhere in between. My eyes are open (all three of them : ) and I won't be truly awake until my current body is no longer with me.



Dear Starchild111,

Just for safety reasons I'll feel we must clarify something here, just in case someone gets the idea to shorten their life to be enlightened.
I know you do not mean that, but just in case anyone gets the wrong idea.

One can be 'awake' in this body, this is just a matter of awareness being aware of awareness, finding nothing happening,
and realising it is just pure perception- uncontaminated! It is that pure and simple. That is called...BUD!

However we still have an accumulation of habitual patterning, which has to be exhausted -purified. That is called...DHA!

So, pure perception + purifies karma =BUDDHA! = Enlightenment. There are many buddhas.




All the best,
Tony

Oh my gosh, you're right. I meant no intention of a life-ending wish for myself or anyone else. I see how it may sound that way. I just personally feel that when we DO die, (naturally of course), that every question we ever had, would be answered, along with every question we had not even thought of. If I had all the answers now, then what would be the point of continuing??? It is the journey, not the destination, as there really is no destination, only another journey. : )

[Daughter of Time]

IMO, there are different levels of awakeness and awareness and a number of steps to becoming fully awake:

1 - realizing one is in a stupor

2 - opening one's eyes and realizing there are different realities concealed from one's own reality

3 - remembering the dreams and making sense of them on some levels

4 - understanding what all the dreams mean

5 - being fully conscious and knowing what to do with one's day (one's life) for the best possible outcome

I think i'm around step 3 - not fully awake but trying to get there.

[Heartsong]

My life has been a struggle. "Awake" is not something I'm destined for. "Alert" is as good as it's going to get.

"Enlightenment" will be happen when I can release remorse, grief, doubt, fear, and hurt. But if I can do that I will have abandoned what is important in this course of life - love and engagement with fellow beings.

I'll settle for something less than enlightenment.

[Tony]

Tony, you always come up with many inspirational thoughts. Thank you. Lovely thread again. I like that...

If I take it vice versa, and I acknowledge, "I am dreaming". Isn´t that a first step towards being awake? And if yes, what about then? How many steps then shall I do to reach that state of being enlightened? One, ten, millions, none?

In my case, as always, more questions available then real answers. At least I know, if I don´t have any answer, I am not there, so I am stuck in my dreams, ha ha..

;)



Ha Ha...if we 'know' we are dreaming................................we 'are' awake!

Being awake is just ................................................................'knowing'!......and leaving it there. It may not last long, but effortless practice it will grow.
Actually it does not 'grow' the dream dissolves, meaning the afflictive obscuration drop away.





Tony

[Anchor]

I don't think I am awake.

I do think I am in a process of awakening.

I have not said or thought: I am awakened - in the sense that its done!

I do know I am aware (conscious) of more than I was before and to me that is a self-proven symptom of awakening.

[Tony]

My life has been a struggle. "Awake" is not something I'm destined for. "Alert" is as good as it's going to get.

"Enlightenment" will be happen when I can release remorse, grief, doubt, fear, and hurt. But if I can do that I will have abandoned what is important in this course of life - love and engagement with fellow beings.

I'll settle for something less than enlightenment.




Dear Heartsong,

"love and engagement with fellow beings." Well, that is bound to lead you to enlightenment without even trying!


Tony

( I actually typed your name as heartsnog!):hug:

[greybeard]

Thought for today.

"Know that the the moment you take up a position you are identifying with an illusion"

There is an enormous amount of depth in that statement from A Course in Miracles"
When I remember this I can have a good laugh at my opinions.

Others do too---smiling.

The thing is "Not to mind"

Chris

[Kryztian]

I am not awake. I am awakening.

From the moment I left the darkness of my mother's womb, life has been one big awakening process. Perhaps it has been occurring before my birth here on planet Earth, and perhaps it will continue beyond this incarnation.

The awakening will continue to happen as long as I don't permit myself to fall into darkness.

[lightwalker]

Good Thread

Well anyway, I know that I am more aware and more Me than I used to be. And there is so much more expansion and awareness in my loving.

lightwalker

[bram]

My life has been a struggle. "Awake" is not something I'm destined for. "Alert" is as good as it's going to get.

"Enlightenment" will be happen when I can release remorse, grief, doubt, fear, and hurt. But if I can do that I will have abandoned what is important in this course of life - love and engagement with fellow beings.

I'll settle for something less than enlightenment.

Hi Heartsong,

You know the one thing we have in common is our mortality. One of these days (and we don't know when- could be today) our ultimate teacher death is going to reach into our lives and show us the extent of our illusions. In the light of this final lesson, I think many people who thought they were far away from enlightenment are instantly illuminated.

I don't think it matters where you think you are on the path, that's 99.99% ego anyway.

For most of us, this is what we can hope for. To be enlightened while we are still in our ''normal lives'' is for one in a billion or so, but when our bodies start to make the journey back home, that's when we can hope to see the light. My hope is to live as good a life as I can- love and engagement with fellow beings sounds like exactly that!

Love, bram

[westhill]

Everyone is so hard on themselves. How wonderful to even care if you are awake!
I am amazed and humbled by all of you.

[mahalall]

just present,
going beyond the thinking

[Tony]

Trust, trust, trust your own intuition, however it is a delicate, delicate, delicate matter.

You do not have to trust other people's intuition. Not because it is wrong, it is merely timely for them.

Everyone has come from somewhere ('goodness' knows where!) and we find ourselves here.
Each of us has had different influences projected onto us, and here we are...confused and doubting everything.

Intuition.
Our intuition is our inner teacher. Outer teachers only reflect our inner teacher so we get to know it or should! Everyone is unique so we 'have' to follow our own intuition. Intuition is that 'thing' that knows rightness.

[ If you see a modern type nude drawing, 'arty', you cannot judge it.
You would either like it or not, but you cannot judge if it was 'right'.
However, if you saw a classical drawing, you 'would' know if it was 'right' or not, and you do not have to know how to draw!]

Sometime intuition is a group thing, but mainly (on a very subtle level) it is an individual thing.
In fact I've never met anyone I agree with on everything, well, hardly ever! Even my teachers!
If you have ever been to the same lecture by a different teacher you will know what I mean.
We all express ourselves differently.

External teacher (the ones that help you find your inner teacher) can only take you so far, then it is up to us. But they should have helped lay a firm foundation of wisdom and love. I'm sure we can all agree on that.

Once we have established our inner teacher, we can then work with 'the symbolic teacher'....life! Then we are starting to 'wake up' to our responsibilities and challenges- working with love..love in action.

This brings us to the unity of the two truths. Every sentient being is a sleeping buddha (Buddha means Awake...absolute truth), not that irritating so-and-so over there. That irritating so-and-so is only a relative truth, a temporary event. If we see that so-and-so's temporary event as real, we are mistaking the unreal for the real, and argue with it....one day we will realise this is pointless!

So working with 'the symbolic teacher' we start to see that everyone and everything can remind us of their and our true nature. Our true nature is pure/empty and knowing so when meeting beings in life we can now talk to that. Not argue with an ego, if we do that, this only reveals our own ego.....this is not a bad thing either, if you notice it! And that is the point of the symbolic teacher at work!

This also goes for all the phenomena in the universe. All phenomena is also inherently empty of true existence, thing come and go. Things have to be cared for and respected, but we do not put undue value on it.

If the illuminati want all the gold in the world, let them play with it.

We only need food, shelter and time to be!



All the best,
Tony