Is gold precious?

[ThePythonicCow]

Conventional "wisdom", from most of the alternative financial sources, is that gold is precious and that it is the preferred store of wealth by kings, nations, and popes, as well as their bankers, and the uber-wealthy who lord over them. Especially in times of monetary instability, such as now when it seems that we are transitioning out of a monetary system based on the US Dollar as the global reserve currency to whatever comes next ... gold seems to be the recommended "safe harbor", with hints of substantial profit to those who hold it. Gold has always been valued throughout recorded history, and across the planet.

Twice now recently I've noticed hints that this might not be so.

Joseph P. Farrell writes in LEW ROCKWELL SEEING OBFUSCATED GOLD FIGURES AS WELL (October 18, 2012) (http://gizadeathstar.com/2012/10/lew-rockwell-seeing-obfuscated-gold-figures-as-well/):



Suppose for a moment that the amount of gold in actual existence was one or two magnitudes of order more and any number publicly bandied about.
An hour ago, in this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53225-Joseph-Lake-discuses-alien-crash-site-on-the-moon&p=600157&viewfull=1#post600157), Bill Ryan quotes a May 25, 2007 interview of William Rutledge by Luca Scantamburlo, which concludes (in Bill's second post of two):



All currencies on Earth are based on the value of gold. Not many citizens know that but gold is an extraterrestrial metal coming from the death of a star. When a star is dying, its mass is growing, atoms are compressed and when the star explodes, it spreads large amounts of gold in young solar systems. That's why gold is not a mineral to treat but a perfect, carbon free metal. This mean that it is the most common substance in the universe, no more value than a piece of plastic.
When I read the above post, I thought to myself:

That makes sense. Don't the uber-wealthy always prefer a measure of wealth of which they have plenty and we commoners little? Certainly they have done so with debt-based currency and in this last century with petroleum based energy sources. Surely they would not have preferred a store of wealth over the millenia that was actually in short supply even to themselves.
So, I wonder, just how much gold is there, as well as the related question, what's a good "safe harbor" for ones savings, during a major transition in the monetary system?

[chancy]

Is Gold precious?

Hello Everyone:
I am not sure that it's precious at all. Alot of people are clamouring to get it but you certainly can't eat it! You certainly can't carry it with you except in small amounts due to weight. No one else would want it unless they could eat it. If and when the world economy fails who would want gold? I know I wouldn't. I know a few rich people that have lots of it and it's not going to feed them. They have no provisions in their store house but gold and it's going to be useless.
Gold may be worth a fortune today but when the world economy fails what really would anyone want it for? There would be NO REASON what so ever unless you feel it might give you a good nights sleep knowing you have some of the very gold that emperor's held onto when they were alive.
I remember Phil Schneider may he rest in peace telling everyone in one of his talks how you can make gold. Phil paid his dues by dying for what he believed in! I believe he may be right because this nonsense about gold being worth a fortune won't last because you can eat it! In my opinion and only my opinion a bushel of grain will be worth more than all the gold in the usa. All we can do is wait and see like every other future event. Sorry I don't have a crystal ball to show everyone the "rest of the story" but we all like to eat so let's see which one will be the most valuable shall we.
I tell my kids when they don't want to eat a great meal that if you ever have to go without food for 2 full days you'll eat the dead skunk in the middle of the road. Thank goodness any of us have not had to go that long without food unless it was self induced!
May we all enjoy what we have in this land of plenty.
chancy

[jagman]

So, I wonder, just how much gold is there, as well as the related question, what's a good "safe harbor" for ones savings, during a major transition in the monetary system?
Billionaire George Soros has made his wealth on betting against currency. I hate to say it but I think hedging against the dollar sounds like a safe bet.

[ghostrider]

Just like the ptb, take something plentiful and control the production of it and make it a must have , raise the price , control the market. They could do it with plastic or copper or water. Diamonds are the same. I'm surprised they don't make us pay for the air we breathe .

[ThePythonicCow]

Billionaire George Soros has made his wealth on betting against currency. I hate to say it but I think hedging against the dollar sounds like a safe bet.
Well, yeah, I've got to agree with you on that one :).

[chancy]

Is gold precious?

I came across another piece of information regarding gold that seems to continue to make a case that gold is worthless:

You can read the full paragraphs in Bill Ryan's post or Jagmans post. Basically William Rutledge said the following and I quote:

26 - W.R. I am a passionate of the Sumerian period, of the Genesis as related by Sumerian. They clearly explain how gods created man. But I have no indications on Sumerian cosmogony, send me some links.

There is a question you didn't ask for and I'm always surprised that nobody does. This could be your question 27 - why is it necessary to hide UFOs, why disinformation, why putting all this under the carpet? It's question of economics. All currencies on Earth are based on the value of gold. Not many citizens know that but gold is an extraterrestrial metal coming from the death of a star. When a star is dying, its mass is growing, atoms are compressed and when the star explodes, it spreads large amounts of gold in young solar systems. That's why gold is not a mineral to treat but a perfect, carbon free metal. [THIS MEAN THAT IT IS THE MOST COMMON SUBSTANCE IN THE UNIVERSE, NO MORE VALUE THAN A PIECE OF PLASTIC.]

Again I say you can't eat it! It's worthless.....
chancy

[ThePythonicCow]

Is gold precious?

I came across another piece of information regarding gold that seems to continue to make a case that gold is worthless:

You can read the full paragraphs in Bill Ryan's post or Jagmans post. Basically William Rutledge said the following and I quote:

...
Again I say you can't eat it! It's worthless.....
chancy
I think you quoted the same material I quoted in the opening post of this thread :).

I would also suggest that not all that's valuable is edible (unless I suppose one is about to starve to death.)

[Daughter of Time]

Gold may not be edible but it has repeatedly been used by many civilizations to buy edibles, and not just in ancient times, but even in current times.

Some of my formative years were spent in Latin America where poverty abounds. I remember many times being in stores where some people went to buy food but didn't have any money. They offered their gold chains, rings, bracelets, etc., as collateral until pay day. No merchant ever turned the gold down.

Currency may lose its value, but gold won't.

[ThePythonicCow]

Some of my formative years were spent in Latin America where poverty abounds. I remember many times being in stores where some people went to buy food but didn't have any money. They offered their gold chains, rings, bracelets, etc., as collateral until pay day. No merchant ever turned the gold down.
A useful reminder, Daughter of Time, thanks.

Even if the Rothschild family has a bazillion tons of the stuff in some secret stash, ordinary people around the world, for thousands of years, have placed some value in gold. Nathan Rothschild cannot undo that.

[Shade]

I think gold has intrinsic value. It is beautiful. It is easy to work and make into decorations for the body and for other ornaments. Saying that just because gold comes from older stars means that it is extraterrestrial is a little misleading... I mean all that came together to make Earth and the Solar System was from somewhere else extraterrestrial before it came to be what it is now. And it is not 'as common as plastic'.. what? The point is how much is there here.. not in the rest of the universe.. we can't GET to the rest of the universe.. and as for 'as common as plastic' .. I don't think so in regards to Gold and the universe at large anyway. It is a heavier element and is quite rare because it needs to go through several fusings to be created. Iron is the most common metal and I am assuming that is because of its stable atomic nuclear state. Some planets are made entirely of diamond (it is speculated in Astronomy) but that doesn't mean we can get to it.
http://www.periodictable.com/Properties/A/UniverseAbundance.st.log.html
(http://www.periodictable.com/Properties/A/UniverseAbundance.st.log.html)
Gold is a much better option than pieces of paper in that it will always be valued by people just because it is beautiful. Diamonds and precious stones as well will always serve as currency but the overpricing of diamonds right now makes them not a good investment if bought on market because to buy them costs more than they are worth. No matter what happens gold has a natural value, just because of its versatility, its beauty and the fact that it looks like the heavens and the sun. Along with that it doesn't tarnish, it is unreactive and very conductive.

[TargeT]

good quality fire arms don't seem to lose their value & are useful to have as well, I guess it depends on if you are thinking you will be in a barter situation or if you're just trying to survive a currency change; a year ago I would have told you silver was the best place to store your wealth but not any longer.

i'm currently living by the "a dying man never wishes he had saved more money" motto... so I guess financial advice from me is sort of like getting fashion advice from a homeless person.


As to gold : it's not really used industrially so the vast majority that is above ground is still circulating or being held somewhere I would think, there could be vast amounts of it but it does seem to be at least mostly rare, if it were not it would be exploited more, mined more etc... especially at 1700 ish per ounce.

[ThePythonicCow]

a year ago I would have told you silver was the best place to store your wealth but not any longer
Why not any longer?

[TargeT]

I watched silver go from it's almost seemingly set-in-stone price of $4/oz to $49/oz (briefly), I found seemingly very good evidence of price suppression & predicted that silver would be up in the 100+/oz price by now due to law suits that were being brought against JP morgan et al.

However it has since slipped from its high of 49 to 32 (or so) and held pretty steady there, I was looking at silver as an investment, not a wealth store, there are a lot of really good reasons for silver to be up over 100 /oz right now but it's just not happening, I do not see it as "risky" since I don't think the price will fall, but I don't see it as a "get rich" move like I use to. I think I fatigued myself on the topic..

the whole thing is kind of funny, I made a lot of other people money with my research but never purchased silver myself... haha

I used to check this page:
http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html
so much that I would dream about it... haha

[DevilPigeon]

-----

It makes you wonder why gold has been attributed as being so precious since time immemorial, and under what circumstances it was decided to be, I think one needs to travel back in time to its original discovery in order to deduce that though. Considering the present-day "scarcity" of it, and seeing all those "gold mining"-type programs on The Discovery Channel for example finding miniscule amounts in a bucketload of rocks, I find it hard to see why it was valued so highly. I mean, come across a grain of it and it hardly looks special.

Which points to the possibility that it was either brought to this planet by an extra-terrestrial race in the dim and distant past, or the initial discovery was of a sufficiently large amount for the determination to be made that indeed it was a material that was somehow to be valued above and beyond most other materials we have on Earth.

If I recall correctly, didn't Zecharia Sitchin mention in his Earth Chronicle books that gold was indeed a non-native Earth material with unique qualities, and that some ancient catastrophe dispersed it widely on the planet...?

[ThePythonicCow]

Considering the present-day "scarcity" of it, and seeing all those "gold mining"-type programs on The Discovery Channel for example finding miniscule amounts in a bucketload of rocks, I find it hard to see why it was valued so highly. I mean, come across a grain of it and it hardly looks special.
There have been sources for gold on earth that were less scarce. Joseph Farrell describes a gold mine in ancient Egypt a ways up the Nile, and South African gold mines have yielded significant quantities for a long time. The "fourty-niners" could find gold nuggets by panning for gold in stream beds in a few of of the western US mountains in 1849 and thereabouts.

[ThePythonicCow]

I watched silver go from it's almost seemingly set-in-stone price of $4/oz to $49/oz (briefly), I found seemingly very good evidence of price suppression & predicted that silver would be up in the 100+/oz price by now due to law suits that were being brought against JP morgan et al.
Sound like you might have "non-buyer's remorse" :).

[Tony]

I cannot take it with me at death, so it is of no value. Still it is very pretty!

[Jean-Luc]

No more than diamond, which apparently can be made from scratch.

http://www.keshefoundation.org/en/applications/materials/diamond-layering

[araucaria]

On another thread a while back, there was mention of the transmutation of gold being a reality, and if so, the scarcity paradigm would no longer be applicable.

Another aspect of gold is that it is incredibly malleable, and hence you can have a large acreage of gold leaf from very little metal. So it is a useful substance if you want to flaunt your riches.

[Cjay]

As to gold : it's not really used industrially

Just about every computer uses gold in some of the electrical contacts because gold does not corrode and it is a very good conductor. This is the main reason why recycling obsolete computers became such a big business.

[eaglespirit]

Just adding a 'nugget' here.
Gold and ruby and quartz in a conch shell create a 'higher' transmitter/connector...
as was revealed to Lorae, a friend, years ago.
Medicine Wheels are an integral part of my journey...as I built them as connectors of gratitude wherever I traveled in the hills and mountains and such places as I was drawn.
Gold mining areas were nearby to many of them I created...and an integral part of the local history. Interesting.
......

Next, my Spirit Teachers told me to build a medicine wheel near a vortex on our ranch. I told them that I knew nothing about Indian religion and wouldn't know where to start. Ignoring my complaints and arguments, they told me to get rocks from all four vortices of the Return Focus Triangle to place at the four compass points of the wheel. Next I was told to get a conch shell for the center, putting in it a small gold nugget, a quartz crystal and a ruby (which makes laser light in both worlds). That did it. I told them that I couldn't get a conch shell, and a ruby was out of the question. However, a few days later, as I wandered through a second-hand shop, the owner's daughter came in. She was carrying a large conch shell and said, "What shall we do with this?" Of course I bought it.

Listening to my Teachers for each step, I put this medicine wheel together. I bought a teensy-tiny ruby for the conch shell. Mount Shasta rocks made up the south points of the wheel, Crater Lake the north, Mount Ashland the east, and serpentine from Eight Dollar Mountain on the west corner, the Point of Wisdom and Power facing the East. In the center of the wheel, extending to the circumference and using rocks from each of the four vortices for each spoke (Eight Dollar rocks for the west, Shasta for the south, Crater Lake for the East and Mt. Ashland for the north), I oriented a cross to the four compass points. In the very center of this cross went the conch shell with gold, crystal and ruby touching each other in the cut part. By putting this wheel close to my home, I brought forth enormous energies into my life. Medicine wheels, by their very nature, probably shouldn't be close to places of habitation.

http://unveiling.fr.yuku.com/topic/62

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

Well, despite gold being a very good conductor and very useful to nowadays high-end electronic components, I couldn´t care less about it.

People keep talking about gold being a very good alternative currency in times of crisis, which is not accurate at all.

There are countless reports of people, during the World Wars, carrying a bag full of gold and silver to farms and leaving with nothing but a very expensive bag of vegetables that wouldn´t last for one week.

In times of serious crisis, useful items are much more valuable for trading than gold.

Raf.

[Maia Gabrial]

So, I wonder, just how much gold is there, as well as the related question, what's a good "safe harbor" for ones savings, during a major transition in the monetary system?

IMO we should get away from a monetary system altogether. Everything should be free. The Andromedans wonder why we have to pay to live on our own planet.
I'm thinking that what if gold is only important to the uberwealthy and not the rest of us? What if they can't buy our products and services with their gold if it means nothing to us? Wouldn't that take control away from THEM and give it to us? Afterall, aren't we the ones who make this world go round? The uberrich aren't as productive as they'd like us to believe anyway. In fact, if we're going to think "useless eaters" here, they fit that bill perfectly. I know I can survive without them.

And another thing to consider is if "life as we have KNOWN it will ge changed" then maybe we, as an entire planet can come up with a system that can never be corrupted or highjacked again by the few.

Paul, I know you meant for this thread to share ideas on how to protect one's hard earned savings and I might have taken it off track with my post. Sorry.... I'm one person who is so fed up with the status quo. I want to see it all go. I want to see everything free so that no one goes without, or manipulated by TPTW for nefarious agendas. Sick and tired of them and their ways....

Gold should be a pretty, shiny metal good for jewelry and artistry. Nothing else.... imo....

[chancy]

Is gold precious?

I came across another piece of information regarding gold that seems to continue to make a case that gold is worthless:

You can read the full paragraphs in Bill Ryan's post or Jagmans post. Basically William Rutledge said the following and I quote:

...
Again I say you can't eat it! It's worthless.....
chancy
I think you quoted the same material I quoted in the opening post of this thread :).

I would also suggest that not all that's valuable is edible (unless I suppose one is about to starve to death.)

Hello Paul: I think you missed my point! No one including me ever said that gold or anything else has to be edible to be valuable. My point was about your point and I quote: "Is Gold Precious?"
I say it's not for many factors and one of those being you can't eat it. IF and maybe when the financial system of today goes into the tank people think that gold is going to save them. I say absolutely not! I simply used the analogy that you can't eat it because food will be a premium when the financial system is in ruins. You won't be able to give gold away because there will be no value to it.
People put too much emphasis on gold. It's more over rated than diamonds.
chancy

[ThePythonicCow]

Paul, I know you meant for this thread to share ideas on how to protect one's hard earned savings and I might have taken it off track with my post. Sorry.... I'm one person who is so fed up with the status quo. I want to see it all go. I want to see everything free so that no one goes without, or manipulated by TPTW for nefarious agendas. Sick and tired of them and their ways....
That's OK ... you and 7 billion other humans as well as countless other living beings on this planet have damn good reasons to be sick and tired of all this crap :).

[ThePythonicCow]

On another thread a while back, there was mention of the transmutation of gold being a reality, and if so, the scarcity paradigm would no longer be applicable.
That (gold no longer being scarce) might depend on the amount of energy required for such transmutations, and whether that energy was still controlled under a scarcity paradigm.

[araucaria]

On another thread a while back, there was mention of the transmutation of gold being a reality, and if so, the scarcity paradigm would no longer be applicable.
That (gold no longer being scarce) might depend on the amount of energy required for such transmutations, and whether that energy was still controlled under a scarcity paradigm.

Who would care how much energy was involved in terms of say coal or human labour, if the end result was obtained?

I certainly don't count my hours of effort in achieving my own version of gold.

[Chip]

I have always been fascinated with Gold.
As a young bush pilot in Alaska I can recall my first flight picking up some prospectors and taking them to Anchorage. We carried a scale in the door pocket that I never used and finally figured out that it was used to weigh gold to pay for the flight.
Being a "rock hound" from my youth I was immediately hooked.
I now spend my time as a hobby to find said treasure. I am often asked "where do you sell your gold" . I don't.
It does not have any monetary meaning to me (I can say this in deep honesty) .
Gold for me is a reminder.
It represents the alchemical perfection of matter. It is to me a reminder of who I am or what I am capable of becoming.
Every nugget that I find with my metal detector has a precious story. And when I am out in nature in the search, where I find the deeper meanings to life. So much so that it actually has increased my odds of finding it.
I've learned more from nature in this process than from any "sage" or "guru" .
So what is gold?

[TargeT]

As to gold : it's not really used industrially

Just about every computer uses gold in some of the electrical contacts because gold does not corrode and it is a very good conductor. This is the main reason why recycling obsolete computers became such a big business.

OH I'm very familiar with this fact, I just did not realize how much was used (each mother board has only trace amounts).

apparently those traces add up:

Principally used in jewelry, gold (chemical symbol Au) is also used generally in manufacturing (and by the electronics and computer industries in particular) due to its excellent thermal and electrical conductivity, resistance to oxidation, and inalterability. The computer industry uses several hundred tons (318 tons in 2003, for example) of the element every year.
The precious metal is found in almost all computer components--processors, motherboards, extension cards, memory DIMMs, and so on. Of course, the amounts used in each part are infinitesimal. But with the price of gold skyrocketing in recent years, it’s becoming more and more economically-viable to recover gold from old electronic and computer components than to mine it. That’s why specialized companies have sprung up to do just that.

http://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/550-gold-motherboard-chemistry.html

[Davidallany]

Gold is associated with mystical powers. I have personally seen this as well as read about it afterwards in a book called unplugging the patriarchy. I haven't been able to find out why, so far. All that I know is that once a person reaches a certain mystical stage, that person will be able to see golden light or mist, exactly like the colour of real gold.

[Anchor]

When forged onto one ring to rule them all, it becomes very precious!

I know, I saw it in a film.

[Tesseract]

About gold:

As far as I know there is no evidence that gold is the most common, let’s say ‘element’, in the universe, I believe hydrogen has that honour. Like all elements of greater atomic number than iron, gold is produced by the fusing of nuclei in particularly large stars that reach the supernova stage. There are probably some planets out there that are extremely gold rich, but Earth isn’t one of them. We are blessed with a lot of silicon though, which is a handy fact to remember when negotiating the price of breast implants with your plastic surgeon. At the risk of going off on (another) tangent, the most common ‘substance’ in the universe is actually the so called dark matter, which is theorized to exist but which we have not directly observed.

The alchemists believed gold to be the ultimate of all metals, to which all other ‘base’ metals had the potential to become. To the alchemists gold was almost the pinnacle of perfection, the pinnacle being the philosopher’s stone. Mercury, due to its ability to dissolve other metals, was an important substance in alchemical procedures. Bizarrely, and poetically, long after the alchemists had been deemed to be chasing a wild goose with their mercury studies, mercury was found to transmutate into gold by way of nuclear decay.

Many a gold ‘expert’ in the economics area will tell you gold actually has no intrinsic value. This is garbage – utterly. The usefulness of gold is fundamental to its value, and I don’t understand why people don’t realise this. Any metal object made from a gold, gold alloy, or other precious metal will not suffer from corrosion – just think of the possibilities. Gold also has a tremendous density too – it would find use as ships’ ballast, fishing sinkers, divers weights and so on if it weren’t so rare.

Regarding not being able to eat gold – think again. Gold leaf is used to garnish dishes and is consumed with the dish. Some folks also find the urge to drink aqueous gold dispersions. Zero calories yet should make you gain weight. Interesting idea that, new age people also used to drink uranium solutions – until their bones crumbled away and their jaws fell off.

Another interesting aspect of gold is that it has the highest formal potential in the electrochemical series, making it extremely resistant to electrochemical corrosion. I’m sure you could design a nice gold based battery to capitalise on its high formal potential. In fact, high energy prototype lithium batteries work better with gold – but it’s too expensive to be practical. Gold has excellent electrical conductivity and would also presumably be a good radiation blocker. And the other precious metals (especially Pt and Pd) are even more useful than gold.

Regarding investment, the fact is that we live in a plutocracy and not a technocracy, and therefore the price of gold is mostly set by institutional traders, government capitalists and central banks – industrial demand has a relatively small influence. To invest in gold is to predict what the plutocrats will do next. The epic inflation people fear monger about in the US won’t happen anytime soon because of the weak economy, and a lot of the stimulus money is diluting overseas markets, not the US. Therefore your fiat waste-paper is probably safe for a while yet.

[kanishk]

Many people are making ORMUS gold and many other are extracting ORMUS elements from already available ormus in nature. Is it possible to convert ceramic ORMUS gold into normal metallic form again?

Because in some videos made by people who sell ormus gold talk about handling of their ormus gold powder/liquid, so that it may not convert back into gold again.

And also I found behavior of ormus element, discussed in David Hudsons experience about finding out about ORMUS. Many guys who are extracting ormus and making ormus are not talking about or demonstrating other physical properties that can be found about ormus, because I think if they are doing those complicated chemical extracting and conversion techniques then they also would have done those other experiments {=which are experienced by David Hudson while discovering about ormus} for their own curiosity.

[kaon]

I didn't realize that gold was in such abundance in the universe. I find that interesting. It also makes me wonder what would happen if we could harvest gold from space. Granted it may not be cost effective yet, but some day it may.
I am not sure how precious it would be if we had a few hundred tons of it delivered to us and what economic impact it would have if the value plummeted. Then what?

When will we progress past the point of rocks determining wealth?

[GlassSteagallfan]

On another thread a while back, there was mention of the transmutation of gold being a reality, and if so, the scarcity paradigm would no longer be applicable.

Here's an article dated 7 Oct 2012 on PressTV:

Iranian researcher creates 24-carat gold in lab
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/10/07/265417/iran-us-scientists-create-pure-gold/

Iranian researcher Kazem Kashefi along with his American colleague has created gold in Michigan State University using bacteria in a way called ‘microbial alchemy.’

Kashefi and Adam Brown used a special type of bacterium to turn liquid gold into more valuable 24-karat gold.

They reported that the bacteria Cupriavidus metallidurans is capable of resisting the toxic effects of gold chloride, and can transform large concentrations of the substance into 24-karat gold, Science Daily reports.

“Microbial alchemy is what we are doing, transforming gold from something that has no value into a solid, precious metal that is valuable," said the assistant professor of microbiology and molecular genetics Kazem Kashefi.

Researchers proved the point with their art installation ‘The Great Work for the Metal Lover,’ in which colonies of the hardy bacteria were fed with massive doses of gold chloride. In about a week, the bacteria produced a gold nugget.

Their artwork contains a portable laboratory made of 24-karat gold-plated hardware, a glass bioreactor and the bacteria, a combination that produces gold in front of the audience.

"This is neo-alchemy. Every part, every detail of the project is a cross between modern microbiology and alchemy," said the associate professor of electronic art and intermedia, Adam Brown.

“Science tries to explain the phenomenological world. As an artist, I'm trying to create a phenomenon. Art has the ability to push scientific inquiry," he added.

FGP/PKH

[SKAWF]

in isolation, gold is worthless.

you cant eat it....
i doubt you could knock a nail into a piece of wood with it

but in relation to other metals, it has qualities which give it a higher value.

maliablilty, conductivity, and it doesnt rust.

and whether or not the price is rigged, or the amount in circulation is controlled,
there is a human aspect to the value of commodities,
which is that things are only worth...... what people are willing to pay

its humans that apply the value to it.

but i wouldnt say gold was precious...
its too widely circulated to have that term applied to it imo.

i would term it a high value commodity.

[Seikou-Kishi]

in isolation, gold is worthless.

you cant eat it....
i doubt you could knock a nail into a piece of wood with it

but in relation to other metals, it has qualities which give it a higher value.

maliablilty, conductivity, and it doesnt rust.

and whether or not the price is rigged, or the amount in circulation is controlled,
there is a human aspect to the value of commodities,
which is that things are only worth...... what people are willing to pay

its humans that apply the value to it.

but i wouldnt say gold was precious...
its too widely circulated to have that term applied to it imo.

i would term it a high value commodity.

In isolation, everything is worthless. Worth is in the general and literal sense a value judgement, and as such requires both a valued thing and valuer (which may be the same). Things valued for pecuniary or utilitarian purposes also have the purpose, all being strictly means to ends as opposed to those things the value of which is held to be inherent (people, for example). In this respect, gold isn't and probably never will have any value at all as food but for the various properties you note. Value therefore changes according to the needs of the moment. Though we would all hold food, water and air to be intrinsically more precious and vital to human life, if our concern is, for example, creating more electrically-conducive wiring, we would find a waldorf salad pretty unappealing.

Is gold precious? I would say so, providing those two requirements are met: that it has a "needer" and a purpose for which it is needed. We can consider the preciousness of a thing in relation to those things which would fulfil the same function. If it scores better for electrical conductivity than copper (it does), then for purposes of electrical conductivity, gold will always have a baseline value higher than copper.

It sounds like a good argument to say that if there is a lot of something in circulation, it's value must be lowered by that fact, but the high circulation of anything cannot be held to be a prerequisite of preciousness; oxygen is all over the place.

[TargeT]

I watched silver go from it's almost seemingly set-in-stone price of $4/oz to $49/oz (briefly), I found seemingly very good evidence of price suppression & predicted that silver would be up in the 100+/oz price by now due to law suits that were being brought against JP morgan et al.

However it has since slipped from its high of 49 to 32 (or so) and held pretty steady there, I was looking at silver as an investment, not a wealth store, there are a lot of really good reasons for silver to be up over 100 /oz right now but it's just not happening, I do not see it as "risky" since I don't think the price will fall, but I don't see it as a "get rich" move like I use to. I think I fatigued myself on the topic..

the whole thing is kind of funny, I made a lot of other people money with my research but never purchased silver myself... haha

I used to check this page:
http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html
so much that I would dream about it... haha

according to HalfPastHuman silver will (in the next 3 weeks or so) spike to 40-50 per oz, then drop back again to around 30/oz

This is suppose to signal the end of silver manipulation, silver will then climb to it's traditional 1:20 ratio (gold:silver) or possibly higher

(interview here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53516-Unbelievably-Good-Clif-High-Interview-Timemonkradio.com )

This is what "I was waiting for" so maybe I just gave up a bit too soon...

wouldn't be a bad idea to buy some silver just for the short "bump" to 50, or buy and hold for the longer run, either way your money is pretty safe in silver (as long as the economy doesn't completely implode)

[SKAWF]

In isolation, everything is worthless. Worth is in the general and literal sense a value judgement, and as such requires both a valued thing and valuer (which may be the same). Things valued for pecuniary or utilitarian purposes also have the purpose, all being strictly means to ends as opposed to those things the value of which is held to be inherent (people, for example). In this respect, gold isn't and probably never will have any value at all as food but for the various properties you note. Value therefore changes according to the needs of the moment. Though we would all hold food, water and air to be intrinsically more precious and vital to human life, if our concern is, for example, creating more electrically-conducive wiring, we would find a waldorf salad pretty unappealing.

Is gold precious? I would say so, providing those two requirements are met: that it has a "needer" and a purpose for which it is needed. We can consider the preciousness of a thing in relation to those things which would fulfil the same function. If it scores better for electrical conductivity than copper (it does), then for purposes of electrical conductivity, gold will always have a baseline value higher than copper.

It sounds like a good argument to say that if there is a lot of something in circulation, it's value must be lowered by that fact, but the high circulation of anything cannot be held to be a prerequisite of preciousness; oxygen is all over the place.

i had to look a bit deeper into this.

first i thought of my ferrets...

maybe not of great monetary value, but to me they are precious.
(they are one offs. you cant get my ferrets anywhere else.)
then it occured to me that 'precious' can also be applied to a human

as in 'be careful with that... he's very precious about it'

at this point i had to look up the definition.

1. Of high cost or worth; valuable.
2. Highly esteemed; cherished.
3. Dear; beloved.
4. Affectedly dainty or overrefined: precious mannerisms.
5. Informal Thoroughgoing; unmitigated: a precious mess.

based on this, even though i stand by my reasoning...

i will happily now accept that gold is a precious metal.

[Seikou-Kishi]

In isolation, everything is worthless. Worth is in the general and literal sense a value judgement, and as such requires both a valued thing and valuer (which may be the same). Things valued for pecuniary or utilitarian purposes also have the purpose, all being strictly means to ends as opposed to those things the value of which is held to be inherent (people, for example). In this respect, gold isn't and probably never will have any value at all as food but for the various properties you note. Value therefore changes according to the needs of the moment. Though we would all hold food, water and air to be intrinsically more precious and vital to human life, if our concern is, for example, creating more electrically-conducive wiring, we would find a waldorf salad pretty unappealing.

Is gold precious? I would say so, providing those two requirements are met: that it has a "needer" and a purpose for which it is needed. We can consider the preciousness of a thing in relation to those things which would fulfil the same function. If it scores better for electrical conductivity than copper (it does), then for purposes of electrical conductivity, gold will always have a baseline value higher than copper.

It sounds like a good argument to say that if there is a lot of something in circulation, it's value must be lowered by that fact, but the high circulation of anything cannot be held to be a prerequisite of preciousness; oxygen is all over the place.

i had to look a bit deeper into this.

first i thought of my ferrets...

maybe not of great monetary value, but to me they are precious.
(they are one offs. you cant get my ferrets anywhere else.)
then it occured to me that 'precious' can also be applied to a human

as in 'be careful with that... he's very precious about it'

at this point i had to look up the definition.

1. Of high cost or worth; valuable.
2. Highly esteemed; cherished.
3. Dear; beloved.
4. Affectedly dainty or overrefined: precious mannerisms.
5. Informal Thoroughgoing; unmitigated: a precious mess.

based on this, even though i stand by my reasoning...

i will happily now accept that gold is a precious metal.

Yeah if I might be so bold, I think the use of the term precious here is not actually the same kind of thing, where it means more delicate, fussy, etc., rather than of high value. A person could be precious in the sense in which a mother might say "look after my ____, they're very precious to me"

It's the inherent-vs-utilitarian distinction of preciousness: inherent preciousness has two requirements (the well-reguarded thing and the one who regards them well) where utilitarian preciousness has three (the precious thing, the purpose to which it is put, and the person who appreciates this useage).

Your ferrets have "inherent preciousness", that is, they're precious to you because of what they are. That's why there's no replacement for them; even if another ferret could do everything yours do, the purpose of the ferret is not the source of the value.

That's just the thing about preciousness though. Whether it's inherent preciousness/preciousness per se or utilitarian preciousness, preciousness is a value judgement and as such not a fact, but an opinion. Opinions are never true or false (they can be well- or badly-founded opinions), but since they don't make a factual claim, they're not true or false.

Take your ferrets. They're very precious to you, but to me they're no more or less precious than the next ferret. It's not that either of us is wrong, it's just that our different perspectives give us different estimations of their preciousness. In this sense, to say gold is or is not precious implies a logical fallacy; rather, preciousness is all about "being held to be", "seeming", and so on. In other words, it would be true to say "gold is precious sometimes, to some people, in certain situations and for various reasons", but never to say simply "gold is precious" or "gold is not precious"; these are shorthands for longer, implied ideas ("Gold is precious to me", "gold is precious for jewellery-lovers", "gold is not precious to the hungry man" and so on).

[araucaria]

On another thread a while back, there was mention of the transmutation of gold being a reality, and if so, the scarcity paradigm would no longer be applicable.

Here's an article dated 7 Oct 2012 on PressTV:

Iranian researcher creates 24-carat gold in lab
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/10/07/265417/iran-us-scientists-create-pure-gold/

Iranian researcher Kazem Kashefi along with his American colleague has created gold in Michigan State University using bacteria in a way called ‘microbial alchemy.’

Kashefi and Adam Brown used a special type of bacterium to turn liquid gold into more valuable 24-karat gold.

They reported that the bacteria Cupriavidus metallidurans is capable of resisting the toxic effects of gold chloride, and can transform large concentrations of the substance into 24-karat gold, Science Daily reports.

“Microbial alchemy is what we are doing, transforming gold from something that has no value into a solid, precious metal that is valuable," said the assistant professor of microbiology and molecular genetics Kazem Kashefi.

Researchers proved the point with their art installation ‘The Great Work for the Metal Lover,’ in which colonies of the hardy bacteria were fed with massive doses of gold chloride. In about a week, the bacteria produced a gold nugget.

Their artwork contains a portable laboratory made of 24-karat gold-plated hardware, a glass bioreactor and the bacteria, a combination that produces gold in front of the audience.

"This is neo-alchemy. Every part, every detail of the project is a cross between modern microbiology and alchemy," said the associate professor of electronic art and intermedia, Adam Brown.

“Science tries to explain the phenomenological world. As an artist, I'm trying to create a phenomenon. Art has the ability to push scientific inquiry," he added.

FGP/PKH

Well, if it's gone mainstream, you can expect black projects to have got it off to an industrial process.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Precious metals are valued because of the labour involved in mining it. Fiat currency has low value because its relatively easy to make, low labour intensive.
What you can do with on the other hand is quite majical. Gold can be converted to a white powder in a process which extends life. The long standing families know this. It is also used in majical rituals. It is a high conductor and is used in majical jewelery.

An ounce of gold in 200 bc would buy you a beautifully made toga, leather belt and sandles, a laurel and gloves. Today an ounce of gold will buy you a beautifully made suit, leather belt and shoes gloves and hat.

Its not moved in purchasing power in over 2000 years. Wether its common or not its properties are significant. If we were to run out how could we mine more from other stars? Labour intensive exersise.

Silver is a precious industrial metal and is now rarer than gold. It is a great investment but it is long term., i bought mine at 28 an ounce, while its used in industry it will be artificially deflated. But that wont last forever. Eventually it will pop and run high.

If you want a bull market try copper :-) you can buy a few tonne quite cheaply its a very precious and useful metal indeed :-)

Copper pipes have quadrupled in price in the last 3 years.

N

[Seikou-Kishi]

Precious metals are valued because of the labour involved in mining it.

If there's any relationship at all, it's the other way around: people don't mind putting in the effort to mine it because it is held to be precious. It's the same with oil, which is precious because its useful, and the effort of oil-drilling follows after that.

[Mulder]

This is an interesting question Paul, I believe Gold is precious inspite of the other poster's opinions. We all know that you can't eat Gold, but you can't eat $100 notes either. We know that the Bible says that people will throw Gold into the street once the "Mark of the Beast" money system is implemented. But it hasn't happened yet and may never happen. It's clear the elite are manipulating the price of Gold down with paper gold "options" and will keep doing this for a long time.

This video explains why Gold is a "BUY NOW" & a store of value:

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