Have you ever met an MKULTRA victim or similar?

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Hello again.

I wanted to ask the above question: have you ever met a monarch or mkultra style government slave?

If so and if you feel comfortable speaking, did this person speak to you about the past? Any weird stuff come up? Childhood and military experience should be interesting.



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When I was a little girl, I lived on a farm in Kentucky. That comes with its own challenges.

My second cousin, who was a grown man, had not been given that privilege. He grew up in Ohio, neglected and tortured under the watch of the local police by his overbearing father. Every once in a while, this cousin would find a reason to visit the farm and see us kids. He seemed to enjoy nature and art, but nothing else except maybe hiking with us kids.

Well, when I grew up, I heard a little more about this chap.
Apparently my understanding of torture was insufficient to describe his experience.

When my cousin was not even 12 years old, his father heated a nail until it was nearly glowing, and please forgive me for saying this, but he put it up my cousin's nose. Let's just call this guy Bret. Bret's dad came up with a new torture and he ended up putting the hot nail up his own son's nose. This resulted in the complete loss of Bret's sense of smell, (smell is known to anchor people to places of childhood memory!).

Before that happened to Bret, I was told that he had been burned as a toddler too. His father made him aware of the dangers of gas heat by burning some of the skin off of Brets baby hands while the gas powered range was fired up. The only reason Bret knew about this was a baby picture showing bandages all over his hands.

edit: (bret was sodomized at college by a counselor also i forgot to mention)

This kind of torture, and lots of sick games like timed challenges, is what defined Bret's life -- until the shadow gov got ahold of him. He joined an agency somewhat unlike the other "alphabet" agencies we know of. It had no name. It had no number. His job was picking up dead drops, meeting spies for information drops, and providing escort to valuables, as far as I can tell. He also knew low light extreme depth diving and the like in order to be able to repair things -- what things, don't ask me -- you'd be better off looking at the Illuminati card deck than asking me what kind of machines Bret worked on down there in the dark.

I asked him if the local police knew or tried to stop the torture occurring at home.
He said that they were part of it, that the chief knew his father and didn't care.
Then Bret ended up being snatched up by special ops because of his talents.

He told me the reason was "his reaction are faster than normal people".
You can imagine I spent a lot of time thinking about that. What did he mean?
Does he mean, that he anticipates the movements of others, or he is just fast?
---

But anyway, the conclusion: the evil dad died, the cousin was cut out of the living will, he still works odd high security jobs although no more spy stuff iirc. He lost his fortune trying to manufacture in China while playing Blackjack in USA.

But the point of it all was, do you know anyone who got snatched up out of unspeakable torture and put into a job NO one else could do?

:mmph: :dizzy: :blabla:

Have you guys seen the movie HANNAH? about the little girl assassin?
I have not seen it yet but from what I heard it's a decent place to start for understanding how some people are raised.

For example, my own father took me hunting and we rarely bonded in other ways.
I've heard this has some ill effects psychically.

?

p.s. did you know that NOAA facilitates exchanges between spies?

edit: what got me onto this: Kennedy assassinations, sleepwalking research and mind control, schizophrenia and ambulatory parasomnia, my cousin :( , current events, and a book that mentioned Sirhan Sirhan.

Also I've taken an interest in "isolation" cases like Loughner, Donovan, Brievik, Holmes, and other kids who played games then killed. :frusty:

I wanna know more about SSRI killers also as this almost happened to me on a drug called Citalopram. :roll:

[Shade]

I was hitchhiking once in country NSW and I came across someone who appeared to be working for the military and had been 'messed with'. I was going through a town which had a huge military base in it and basically the whole town was made of soldiers. One of them picked me up hitchhiking and kindly gave me a very long ride. He went quite out of his way actually and we had a very interesting chat along the way. From what I remember, he had been specially trained out there for something or another, he spoke of mind control and had an obviously messed up perception of time. He was telling me about some training camp in South Africa as well and there was a military leader out there called Enki who had trained them all who he said had control over 'a billion' (people). It was really weird actually but at that point I wasn't too concerned with 'weird' as I am mighty 'weird' myself and hitching around country had upped my tolerance for it. He had an obviously distorted idea of time and I could read in him that his memory had been messed with and he had been programmed as well. Either that or he was a civilian who was in a psychotic state or amidst a mental illness - could have been either really.

The next person who gave me a ride along the way was my local member for parliament who was as far away from home as I was. He gave me $20 and shook my hand. A vote was bought that day ; ). No actually I appreciated it, I needed it : ) and he knew it.

Oh and how's this for funny - once on another trip I got picked up in the outback by a home travel butcher... he had a van and all his butchering cleavers and knives were hanging along the dash LOL. Meanwhile I'll just get a lift from him into the outback. He was a very nice man and I didn't feel scared at all. : D. He told me all about the business. He was just nice.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Thanks for that!

Enki, hmm, wasn't the husband of the Queen of the Damned named Enkil?

:)
In Anne Rice's book. And indeed the Queen had control over "a billion people" or more -- women!

But back to MKULTRA: yeah I suppose some of the people are LYING (even my cousin i guess).
I met a few homeless women who seemed to have been "gotten to" as you describe the man above.

Do you know what it means to be near someone who oraculates? I came across one homeless chick (older) who told different stories/secrets based on who was near her physically. This was a one-time experience, but the strange thing was, she used so many words that you guys and I would know, when I went near her, about the things we talk about on these sites, but she was not on the internet that i ever saw -- how could she know all this? She even knew things about my family (or at least what they talk about).

Have you met someone who knows too much about you or others, or someone who WANTS to know too much?
_________________
edit: someone's CIA thread recently posted here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53213-Truth-like-it-or-not--About-CIA.&p=600137#post600137

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

wallpaper used for research purposes, taken from Arkham City ads

http://imageshack.us/a/img821/887/wallpapermo.png

wanted to add some links (if that doesn't break rules!!!!!!!!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra
Wikipedia's entry on official project mkultra declassified (partly)

Project MKUltra was the code name for a covert research operation experimenting in the behavioral engineering of humans (mind control) through the CIA's Scientific Intelligence Division. The program began in the early 1950s, was officially sanctioned in 1953, was reduced in scope in 1964, further curtailed in 1967 and "officially halted" in 1973.[1] The program engaged in many illegal activities[2][3][4]; in particular it used unwitting U.S. and Canadian citizens as its test subjects, which led to controversy regarding its legitimacy.[5][6][7][8] MKUltra involved the use of many methodologies to manipulate people's individual mental states and alter brain functions, including the surreptitious administration of drugs (especially LSD) and other chemicals, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal and sexual abuse, as well as various forms of torture.[9]

http://imageshack.us/a/img22/7320/superorsubhuman.png


Kathy O'brien (you've heard of her somewhere -- story won't die because it's true):

Project Monarch

O'Brien claims to have been recruited against her will by the CIA and her abusive father as a child, through a network of child pornographers he was involved with, and forced to participate in a mind control program named Project Monarch, which is said to be a subsection of Project MKULTRA and Project ARTICHOKE.[2][3][4][5] Despite scholarly investigation of the MKULTRA program, there is no evidence for the existence of Project Monarch except for O'Brien's testimony.[5]

Cathleen Ann O'Brien (born December 4, 1957, Muskegon, Michigan[1]) is an American who claims to be a victim of Project MKULTRA, a program funded by the Central Intelligence Agency to research the use of drugs for intelligence purposes.[2][3][4][5][6] O'Brien made these claims in Trance Formation of America (1995) and Access Denied: For Reasons of National Security (2004) which she co-authored with her husband Mark Phillips.[6] O'Brien is one of many people publicly claiming to have survived "CIA mind control" programs.

Entertainment and the tracking of subjects:

James Holmes
Anders Brievik
Jared Loughner
Able Seaman Donovan

"faraway look"
"gaming addict"
"all he did was play games and listen to music"
"he had a detached look in his eyes as though he were playing a game and not shooting people"

Persons who have broken silence about mind control recently:
Sirhan Sirhan
James Holmes
persons involved in investigation re: psychowarfare against senators by military intelligence

etc.


yahoo question

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kandg2
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What is Monarch Programming?
Can someone please explain what Monarch Programing is in the simplest way possible? also explain what methods they use and how it relates to The Wizard of Oz. Anything will help, I've found a lot of things on it but i can't understand them. (This all started because I wanted to understand the song Brick By Boring Brick by Paramore)
3 years ago Report Abuse

cookxeny...
Best Answer - Chosen by Voters

Monarch programming is a system of brainwashing created by the CIA in like the fifties. They use children's movies like the wizard of oz as triggers, and as an example of how they want their victim to think.
They want them to be thinking in a weird wonderland/oz way, because that way they're easier to control.

It doesn't actually have much to do with monarchy I don't think, it's because the symbol is the monarch butterfly. Because they transform their victim's personalities into something unrecognizable.

as for what methods they use, they use pain, unimaginable, unbearable pain, whether it's mental or physical. pain so bad, you have to dissociate with reality to survive it. Which is what you do when you step into that wonderland/oz mentality. but once you're there, you are very easy to program (like a computer)...and you won't remember after-wards, until you're triggered to do whatever it is they want.
Source(s):
Rhianna's Russian Roulette shows her going through the painful beginning part.
Kerli's Walking on Air shows an example of what it's like to undergo the programing.
Lady Gaga's telephone shows what it's like once you're fully programmed and you go on a mission.

http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=2806

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/4748/monq.png

[Shade]

Ok you might be getting sick of my anecdotes right now.. lol I sound like an old fart before my time don't I...

But I think people in psychosis and other altered mind states can get like that sometimes (oractulatory). I was on a bus once and some guy was a few seats in front of me, the ones facing inwards at the front and he had full on tourettes as well as some kind of psychosis going on and he was just rambling to himself. And I'm like listening in and he starts going on about quartz crystals and when you press them electricity comes out. And I really wanted to like say out loud yeah mate that's right, it's piezoelectricity, and also to the rest of the bus who just thought he was talking nonsense. LOL like just turn around and support the tourettes man in front. "yeah so listen in and you might learn something, strangers on the bus" (nodding). And then just after he got off, he said hello to the man getting on, like they were well acquainted. This new man was wearing underpants and a singlet, carrying a squeegee and a small bucket of change. As he walked in he lifted up his singlet displaying his Y fronts for the entire bus to see, proclaiming "yeah I'm wearing underpants get a good look everyone, that's right (ladies)". I don't think my story had a point, did it. Maybe I am oraculating.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Ok you might be getting sick of my anecdotes right now.. lol I sound like an old fart before my time don't I...

But I think people in psychosis and other altered mind states can get like that sometimes (oractulatory). I was on a bus once and some guy was a few seats in front of me, the ones facing inwards at the front and he had full on tourettes as well as some kind of psychosis going on and he was just rambling to himself. And I'm like listening in and he starts going on about quartz crystals and when you press them electricity comes out. And I really wanted to like say out loud yeah mate that's right, it's piezoelectricity, and also to the rest of the bus who just thought he was talking nonsense. LOL like just turn around and support the tourettes man in front. "yeah so listen in and you might learn something, strangers on the bus" (nodding). And then just after he got off, he said hello to the man getting on, like they were well acquainted. This new man was wearing underpants and a singlet, carrying a squeegee and a small bucket of change. As he walked in he lifted up his singlet displaying his Y fronts for the entire bus to see, proclaiming "yeah I'm wearing underpants get a good look everyone, that's right (ladies)". I don't think my story had a point, did it. Maybe I am oraculating.

get them all in the same room and i guarantee some sort of strangeness will manifest :cool: lol

[Kari Lynn]

I'm not sure of all the programs out there, but I know there are a bunch. And, that many of them are sub named programs of many others. Such as the GMP' (genetically modified personnel) or perhaps better known, though inaccurately named, Super Soldiers. Monarch or MK Ultera are but one program of many these persons are placed into. As well a many agencies and countries as well. They get traded back and forth when and as needed.
I have known at least 3 persons, as well a myself that have been in these assorted progrsms their entire life, and military life as well. I have been verified only one of programs I've been in, which is Oak Tree program. I have memories of other milab incidents or programs, but not sure the name. It is much the same for the friends I know of also.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

thank you for sharing that!

i've wondered too about Supersoldier programs.
we have autism on the one hand, but what's on the other side that we don't get to see?

and what about alleles being activated by vaccines, etc.?

much too little on the public record for my taste

[Kari Lynn]

It's interesting you should mention alleles.
Though I have not had my dna tested to know my own, my aunt has, and she has an extra allele on her dna. (not quite sure how to explain that properly, so hope you understand what I'm getting at. Lol) She can't give blood to any one else or they will die. Like wise she will also if given any one elses blood but her own. Her blood is like poison to anyone else, and she herself wil die without that extra allele.

I also spoke with a young woman that was taken to a milab facility at ironton Mt, in northern Michigan. My family used to camp and go on mine tours there probably 15 to 20 years earlier. She said she was monarch, though I'm not sure if she has documented verification of that. (may be a verbal hunch by other members)
Any way, I found the coincidence interesting. And the fact that of the week stay while camping there as a youngster, I only remember one day and only the mine tour. I can't even remember setting up camp, tent, or sleeping...which is odd.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

I saw a young man staring at me once in a thrift store -- he carried an XMEN origins comic toward me and set it in a place I eventually passed and looked at.
Too busy buying knick knacks for ebay to care about him, but the gesture was not wasted.

I kind of wonder sometimes -- beacon? :( Vibe? Chemistry?

the allele thing you mention, amazing!

i was concerned somewhat in the past about the 9-repeat allele (native american schizophrenia) because 25% of troops are natives or something.

[Snookie]

One odd occurrence I saw happened back around 2007. A couple of my co-workers were standing outside our office building on a break.

We saw this lady who looked dazed, confused & disheveled. Next thing I see is a cop going up to her. She wasn't doing anything wrong. He starts interrogating her. One of the first questions he asked her was "What day is it?" She didn't know. Then he asks her "What month is it"? She said "February" it was actually July. As soon as she said that, they pulled out their handcuffs and tried to take her in. She tried fighting and getting away, saying "why are you doing this to me?, what did I do"? They ended up handcuffing her & taking her away.

I just found it to be a very bizarre incident, and I remember wondering at the time if she could have been mind contoled. It seemed to me that they were looking for her, like she had been reported missing or something - very strange!

[torti]

I just found it to be a very bizarre incident, and I remember wondering at the time if she could have been mind contoled. It seemed to me that they were looking for her, like she had been reported missing or something - very strange!

It is a scary thought that we can be controlled. But if they have to set up special organizations, to "learn" to do these things, rest assured, there are those amongst us, who without training, can free us.

[thunder24]

I used to have a roomate that was part of the twin studies for MkUltra, 50's-60's, him and his brother would have electrodes put on head and brain waves monitored as one was given a drug and the other nothing.... brain waves would change of the one not given the drug in alignment with brain waves of the one that was giving a drug. They were adopted by an airforce family....they are from OHIO!

We've all heard of Cathy O'brein and know her story... She also went to charm school, I think it was in Youngstown Ohio according to her book, and interviews. I found her to be a very pleasant and caring person when we met...

peace

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

that is very creepy. to say the least!

anyone notice any "unauthorized testing" in elementary school?
or high school for that matter?

kids with frequent absences or medical needs?

interesting stuff @.@

[Flash]

I was hitchhiking once in country NSW and I came across someone who appeared to be working for the military and had been 'messed with'. I was going through a town which had a huge military base in it and basically the whole town was made of soldiers. One of them picked me up hitchhiking and kindly gave me a very long ride. He went quite out of his way actually and we had a very interesting chat along the way. From what I remember, he had been specially trained out there for something or another, he spoke of mind control and had an obviously messed up perception of time. He was telling me about some training camp in South Africa as well and there was a military leader out there called Enki who had trained them all who he said had control over 'a billion' (people). It was really weird actually but at that point I wasn't too concerned with 'weird' as I am mighty 'weird' myself and hitching around country had upped my tolerance for it. He had an obviously distorted idea of time and I could read in him that his memory had been messed with and he had been programmed as well. Either that or he was a civilian who was in a psychotic state or amidst a mental illness - could have been either really.

The next person who gave me a ride along the way was my local member for parliament who was as far away from home as I was. He gave me $20 and shook my hand. A vote was bought that day ; ). No actually I appreciated it, I needed it : ) and he knew it.

Oh and how's this for funny - once on another trip I got picked up in the outback by a home travel butcher... he had a van and all his butchering cleavers and knives were hanging along the dash LOL. Meanwhile I'll just get a lift from him into the outback. He was a very nice man and I didn't feel scared at all. : D. He told me all about the business. He was just nice.

this story is very interesting. I correspond with what some say about Enki, who would have been playing with our genes, to make us subservient, some many thousands years ago, and could still be on earth. Controlling 1 billion people would probably be possible if the story of Enki has any truth in it. The place would correspond with potential Enki's place as well in Africa.

[thunder24]

My roomate said he was flown to the university of Miami, that he rememebers, but says there were other places they went but was so young doesn't remember. i would assume some were during school.
that is very creepy. to say the least!

anyone notice any "unauthorized testing" in elementary school?
or high school for that matter?

kids with frequent absences or medical needs?

interesting stuff @.@

[Kari Lynn]

anyone notice any "unauthorized testing" in elementary school?
or high school for that matter?

Bingo! Yes indeed! When I was in elementary school, a lady who said she was the school counselor removed me from school and took me to the dentist. He removed my tooth. I remember being upset that he pulled my new big grown up tooth.
Later in years I talked to my mom about the incident. She told me, "i took you to all your appointments. The counselor don t take kids to their appointments." I thought she was just forgetful for the longest time, until my mom became a foster parent and I became a parent myself.
Then when my two youngest boys were in elementary school, the teachers removed them from school with out my permission or knowledge to "buy them shoes" mind you these boys don't need or want for cloths. My mother gets cloths for them free. Plus I had just bought new shoes for them a month earlier.
Boys say that is what the teachers did. And show no signs of missing time, but they were young. If anything did happen, I suspect they wont come to realize it until later in life.

[witchy1]

Hi Kari Lynn, what did the teacher say when you approached him/her about allegedly buying shoes for your children??? Did the kids have new shoes?? Had other parents noticed similar activities with their children.
and how did your Mum not notice your tooth missing?

In the 60's and 70's those in authority could do anything without consequences. I know my Mum was too busy raising my siblings to check up on me at school. She never drove and we were rural. I took the bus to school. I guess I just fended for myself and did what I was told like a good girl. You learn quick!

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Thank you for sharing those stories.
It's not fun to talk about this and I hope no one feels bad!

[Kari Lynn]

I approached the principle about it. More in a manner of making sure that they knew that my boys had gotten 5 brand new shoes for school in the 4 months between September through the beginng of December. He assured me they didn't think my boys weren't provided for, that they did it to cheer my middle son. He had stepped in a mud puddle and was upset to tears he had gotten his shoes wet. I questioned my boys about where they went shopping with the teachers. If they wee taken any place else. But seems to appear they only went shopping. If any thing did happen, it may take years for memory to surface.
No other kids were taken out. Just my boys.


I don't recall my mom ever asking about the dentist visit. And when I got home at normal time, having rode the bus home, like typical kid, I ran off and played. No pain or discomfort. I didn't mention it to her until I was in high school.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

It's weird how we were talking about MKultra and monarch in here and elsewhere (holmes threads),

then there was this fake suicide of the Navy Seal commander in afghanistan (yesterday?).

who knows what hells some people go through that the rest of us never see or could possibly fathom.

god have mercy when we dont. :( on the victims of our empire.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

I wanted to share something very important.
The last couple of days, we saw threads about Blizzard entertainment allowing the NSA to profile users via participation in online gaming (VR environments).
I have theorized for THREE YEARS that NSA/gov't agencies can use player profiles to target young kids and turn them into black ops assets.

You might laugh at me for saying that here, but I don't give a ****. I don't care if it sounds paranoid or ill.
It needs to be asked -- IS the government, or an arm of it that really needs to be regulated into the dirt, using VR profiles to "cherry pick" and "sheep dip" unsuspecting minors and young adults,
turning them into black ops dupes by feeding them carefully-crafted lines of bull****?

Read the following INFOWARS article, and tell me from the bottom of your heart, is it OUTSIDE the REALM OF POSSIBILITY that the gov't (or others) may use ONLINE video game communities as a resource pool in acquiring mentally ill black ops assets?

http://www.prisonplanet.com/boston-bomber-believed-he-was-a-victim-of-mind-control.html

Boston Bomber Believed He Was a Victim of Mind Control
Tamerlan Tsarnaev feared he had been brainwashed to act on trigger phrase

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
December 16, 2013

Suspected Boston marathon bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev believed that he was a victim of mind control, according to the results of a five month investigation published yesterday by the Boston Globe.
Tsarnaev, who was killed in a shootout with police four days after allegedly carrying out the bombings with his brother Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, was thought to have “some form of schizophrenia,” according to family friends, while his mother said Tsarnaev “felt like there were two people living inside of him.”

“He believed in majestic mind control, which is a way of breaking down a person and creating an alternative personality with which they must coexist,” Donald Larking, a 67-year-old who attended a Boston mosque with Tamerlan, told the Globe. “You can give a signal, a phrase or a gesture, and bring out the alternate personality and make them do things. Tamerlan thought someone might have done that to him.”
The link between allegations of mind control and violent acts such as political assassinations or terror attacks has been a running theme in numerous different high profile cases.

Aurora theater gunman James Holmes said he was “programmed” to carry out the massacre by an “evil” therapist, according to an alleged inmate of the ‘Batman’ shooter. Steven Unruh claims that Holmes told him he “felt like he was in a video game” during the shooting and that he had been brainwashed with the aid of neuro-linguistic programming.

The parallels between James Holmes and another alleged victim of mind control – RFK assassin Sirhan Sirhan – are astounding.

As the London Independent reported in 2005, evidence strongly indicates that Sirhan was a Manchurian candidate, a victim of mind control who was set up to be the fall guy for the murder. Sirhan was described by eyewitnesses as being in a trance-like state as he pulled the trigger.

“There was no way Sirhan Sirhan killed Kennedy,” said (Sirhan’s lawyer Larry) Teeter….He was the fall guy. His job was to get busted while the trigger man walked out. He wasn’t consciously involved in any plot. He was a patsy. He was unconscious and unaware of what was happening – he was the true Manchurian Candidate.”

The CIA’s use of mind control to create killers is a matter of historical record. MK-ULTRA was the code name for a covert, illegal CIA human research program, run by the Office of Scientific Intelligence that came to light in 1975 through investigations by the Church Committee, and the Rockefeller Commission. 14-year CIA veteran Victor Marchetti insists that the program is ongoing and has not been abandoned.

According to his lawyers, Sirhan Sirhan “was an involuntary participant in the crimes being committed because he was subjected to sophisticated hypno programming and memory implantation techniques which rendered him unable to consciously control his thoughts and actions at the time the crimes were being committed,” and served only as a diversion for the real assassin.

Jared Lee Loughner, the gunman who shot Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and killed six other people, was also obsessed with mind control.

Were the Tsarnaev brothers set up or brainwashed into carrying out the Boston marathon bombing? It’s a claim that would be virtually impossible to prove, but it would explain a number of extraordinary contradictions pertaining to the case, including why the brothers apparently shouted “we didn’t do it” during their shootout with police.

The aunt of Tamerlan Tsarnaev claims that the footage which emerged of police arresting a naked uninjured man was her nephew, contradicting the official narrative that Tsarnaev was critically injured in a shootout and suggesting he may have been killed while in custody.

According to Tamerlan’s mother Zubeidat Tsarnaeva, the the FBI “were controlling his every step.” It was subsequently confirmed that both the FBI and the CIA added the brothers to at least two terrorist watch lists in late 2011.

Facebook @ https://www.facebook.com/paul.j.watson.71
FOLLOW Paul Joseph Watson @ https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet

_______________________________________________________________________________

I'd say 18 of the last 20 American and European mass murderers had accessed or been addicted to online gaming.

It IS the common thread, whether people believe me or not.

[Oouthere]

Hi Tesla, I was one of the speakers at the first super soldier summit.

Super soldier is definitely an incorrect term for my experiences as they were almost exclusively in a matrix type testing/training environment. Personally, I believe that most/if not all of the experiences were in that realm. The discovery channel filmed/interviewed my wife and I for a total of about 6 hours for the series Monsters and Mysteries, it should show next month.

Was this MKULTRA, no idea. At no time was I given any mission/project names that can be recalled. But numerous people have had practically identical experiences, so imo some of these are actually lucid movies your conscious is subjected to but they feel like your own. But when two guys a few years apart in age remember being overtaken by a reptilian and held in a cabin for 3 days along with about 5 other people...not much else makes sense.

Another incident we shared was being placed in a last man standing event, you killed everyone. We both remembered our last two kills, exactly alike up to and including about a 40' knife throw planting a knife into the chest of the last victim.

There it is for what it's worth...

Here's a link to my book (http://www.amazon.com/Warriors-Light-Richard-L-Rogers/dp/1463607857), though I'm no pushing it in any way...

Rich

[Bob]

Tesla hi -

Is it appropriate in your thread to discuss or re-point out what is and why MK Ultra was created ? If the concept being worked on in this thread is to point out the use of chemical programming to create a killer (a super soldier), or a hidden sleeper assassin, or hidden sleeper insane rabble rousing madman who goes on a ranting rage (on command by a key phrase for instance), any and all of that can be discussed here in this thread or in separate ones.

Your call.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Tesla hi -

Is it appropriate in your thread to discuss or re-point out what is and why MK Ultra was created ? If the concept being worked on in this thread is to point out the use of chemical programming to create a killer (a super soldier), or a hidden sleeper assassin, or hidden sleeper insane rabble rousing madman who goes on a ranting rage (on command by a key phrase for instance), any and all of that can be discussed here in this thread or in separate ones.

Your call.Hi Bob! :)

Sure, it's probably not a bad idea to tell people what MKULTRA is, but I am looking also for examples.
It's a pretty old program, so most people on PA have likely heard of it.

MKULTRA needed people who blend in with "normal" society for the most part, not so much a group of Xmen, but average Joes who could be called upon as a resource in a pinch.

[donk]

My special lady friend has been programmed to "shut down" when concepts like MKULTRA, mind control, and even abduction start registering in her brain.

If it is being talked about around her she gets agitate or excitable and deflects the conversation, and on several occasions when I got her to truly comprehend the possibility she slowly, methodically closes her eyes and powers herself to the floor, where she remains for a few seconds with the shallowest of breathing, completely unresponsive. When she comes to, her memory is erased back to about 5 mins before the start of the conversation.

It was terrifying at first, but I realized when I let go of my fear (she was never harmed) she came to quicker. It was like a part of her knew when I wasn't thinking about that stuff and not transmit that information anymore.

The other thing I experience is that word I forget (and can't scroll back on my phone to see) about talking about things she shouldn't know...with her though it is like a telepathic thing, she starts talking about things I know she knows nothing about, but are on my mind. Especially the stuff I study here.

She was born in Ecuador and was taken by her father to a "specialist" when she was a kid when she exhibited exames of telekenisis and prescience a couple times in a short period. Her father was American scientist working for University of Alabama...she was in the first group ever tested for what was then an experimental growth hormone, which she took daily injections of as she was tiny and I guess that wasn't acceptable to the 'rents...or they maybe they made some medical excuse, I can't get clarity as the father is estranged and mother is clueless...

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

My special lady friend has been programmed to "shut down" when concepts like MKULTRA, mind control, and even abduction start registering in her brain.

If it is being talked about around her she gets agitate or excitable and deflects the conversation, and on several occasions when I got her to truly comprehend the possibility she slowly, methodically closes her eyes and powers herself to the floor, where she remains for a few seconds with the shallowest of breathing, completely unresponsive. When she comes to, her memory is erased back to about 5 mins before the start of the conversation.

It was terrifying at first, but I realized when I let go of my fear (she was never harmed) she came to quicker. It was like a part of her knew when I wasn't thinking about that stuff and not transmit that information anymore.

The other thing I experience is that word I forget (and can't scroll back on my phone to see) about talking about things she shouldn't know...with her though it is like a telepathic thing, she starts talking about things I know she knows nothing about, but are on my mind. Especially the stuff I study here.

She was born in Ecuador and was taken by her father to a "specialist" when she was a kid when she exhibited exames of telekenisis and prescience a couple times in a short period. Her father was American scientist working for University of Alabama...she was in the first group ever tested for what was then an experimental growth hormone, which she took daily injections of as she was tiny and I guess that wasn't acceptable to the 'rents...or they maybe they made some medical excuse, I can't get clarity as the father is estranged and mother is clueless...

This is exactly the kind of story I am looking for.
The history of experimental childhood testing and introduction to drugs and hormones, DNA is a red flag.
The memory lapses and mind reading are definite red flags.

It reminds me of a film (can't freaking remember the name) where a bunch of young adults are shot up with a hallucinogenic drug and go crazy.
The doctors think it's all great of course.

I met a person like your subject while touring a homeless shelter.
She was speaking aloud things that others thought.
As if she picked up the things that were on our minds, or scarier still, the things that would be on our minds later.

I wondered if she had worked a high clearance job then got messed up with drugs by her superiors.

[Ammit]

I worked with an ex army guy in a electronics firm, he seemed quite a nice guy, typical person with a wife and kids who he often spoke of. The company had a loud speaker system to notify folks of either deliveries or phone calls etc. I noticed that whenever someone spoke over this speaker system he would become enraged. Really scarey as he was built like a brick **** house. He was doing some soldering one day with a very large iron when the speaker system went off and a message was announced, I turned around to see where the hell he was and saw him crush this iron into a work bench.

I mean, he destroyed the thing. It was so crumpled up when i looked at it I could not believe the power it must have taken to do it. He just dissapeared and never saw him again.

I often wonder if this was anything to do with programming.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Have you ever met an MKULTRA victim or similar?

Well some of them, not all 7 billion of course, just don't have the time.

[donk]

Another weird thing: I was watching some mind control thing I can't remember, an mkultra or monarch or some program's victim was saying how some get involved those pageants, I think the one I was listening to was talking about miss America....anyways my babe's sis (who is probably 6'1 I'd say, strange considering her parents are short and they were worried about her being a "little person") was runner up for representing Ecuador in Miss Universe pagent.

In fact I think her and all 3 sisters hit the runway in one form of modeling or another...

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Have you ever met an MKULTRA victim or similar?

Well some of them, not all 7 billion of course, just don't have the time.

Yeah but some are more directly victimized than others...

[Hughe]

I have a friend. She turned out a victim of life-long secret mind control/human experimental program since her birth. Her biological parents did weird things to her when she was a child. Long story to short, her life matches to common pattern of MKULTRA victims, entire family set up. They carefully picked up young couples to perform human experimentation in the past. These couples became monstrous parents and would have done unimaginable stuff to their own kids without knowing what they were doing.

Looking at general public's behavior and level of stupidity I consider excellent mind control jobs has been done over thousands years. Religion was the first invention of mind control of humans I could think of. It dehumanizes humans and make them stupid, removes basic instincts and disconnect humans from Nature.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

http://books.google.com/books?id=sC0SAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT80&lpg=PT80&dq=%22mkultra%22+%22enigma%22&source=bl&ots=uBCIpdHCyK&sig=1qJgMR-amvSJ-5w1rQ_g0eSTuTE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IGbeUpDyK8GHogTxxYH4CA&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=%22mkultra%22%20%22enigma%22&f=false

ENIGMA: A Veteran’s Quest for Truth
By Glenn E. Tagatz

[Carmody]

They have a tendency to work in smaller areas, small towns, where they can, as Freemasons, under cover of the Freemason groups, gain control of a school board (very few people, small school boards) and then start putting their own people in place, for the experiments, the abductions and the rituals.

[Limor Wolf]

They have a tendency to work in smaller areas, small towns, where they can, as Freemasons, under cover the Freemason groups, gain control of a school board (very few people, small school boards) and then start putting their own people in place, for the experiments, the abductions and the rituals.

Very true, and it spreads like a cancer. A sort of a silent enemy, not necessarily man made. A nation which is looled to sleep is far easier to be controled and to be consumed. Consciousness and awarness and an expansion of the heart as always is key.

[anonymous]

my privacy standards have changed - 5/10/16 - apologies for the many edits of public comments

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

They have a tendency to work in smaller areas, small towns, where they can, as Freemasons, under cover of the Freemason groups, gain control of a school board (very few people, small school boards) and then start putting their own people in place, for the experiments, the abductions and the rituals.

I was thinking about what you said for the last 24 hours, off and on!

It does seem to be a big problem.
Me = really hates secret societies... sorry!!

How does one fight a gang that's undercover of the law??

[donk]

Fighting doesn't really seem to accomplish much, other than wasting emotional energy. How CAN we win a fight so stacked against us?

I think it's up to is spread awareness, one person at a time. The truth seems to hold up, if you're brave enough to stand in it.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Fighting doesn't really seem to accomplish much, other than wasting emotional energy. How CAN we win a fight so stacked against us?

I think it's up to is spread awareness, one person at a time. The truth seems to hold up, if you're brave enough to stand in it.

I live in a town where every lawyer knows every cop on a first name basis and no one will take anyone else to court.
When there is corruption that's bad enough, the Tri-Cities police have to come break up the local gang a bit.

it's happened recently and I think more than once, the Kennewick police have had to come out here and straighten things out...

it's like a microscopic seattle police situation lol

[SPIRIT WOLF]

Regarding OP yes, many, in my 47 years of various research and investigations, official and unofficial.

[anonymous]

my privacy standards have changed - 5/10/16 - apologies for the many edits of public comments

[anonymous]

my privacy standards have changed - 5/10/16 - apologies for the many edits of public comments

[Project_Buggy_Beach]

"Default Re: Have you ever met an MKULTRA victim or similar?
I wanted to share something very important.
The last couple of days, we saw threads about Blizzard entertainment allowing the NSA to profile users via participation in online gaming (VR environments).
I have theorized for THREE YEARS that NSA/gov't agencies can use player profiles to target young kids and turn them into black ops assets.

You might laugh at me for saying that here, but I don't give a ****. I don't care if it sounds paranoid or ill.
It needs to be asked -- IS the government, or an arm of it that really needs to be regulated into the dirt, using VR profiles to "cherry pick" and "sheep dip" unsuspecting minors and young adults,
turning them into black ops dupes by feeding them carefully-crafted lines of bull****?"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087597/

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=24620&d=1390565485&thumb=1&stc=1


Remember this cornball movie? The first time I saw it even though at that time I thought the special effects were cheese/ball the idea of trolling humanity for heightened reflexes or a gift of piloting a craft or any desired trait that was built into the particular 'entertainment software' was a brilliant idea...

It would be interesting to interview a few of the pro players participating in FPS tournament platforms (those that would talk) would certainly have a few curious things to say, when you put enough hours into a FPS you begin to suspect there is more going on then meets the eye...

[anonymous]

my privacy standards have changed - 5/10/16 - apologies for the many edits of public comments

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

I've seen that movie recently too, well, part of it.

Cornball made me LOL -- but you are right, it was heavy on the cheese,
but the concept is frightening.

You remember the film "Lawnmower Man"? Shows what happens when a morally simple mind (lack of experience) is drowned in the experience of the evil.
He becomes the embodiment (spiritually!) of evil and can't be stopped by the ordinary gatekeepers of the cyber world :(

I think both these films were saying, the "games" (training/alteration programs) would bear fruit.

"If there is evil in the seed, then what will be in the fruit?"

[donk]

That's kinda sync-y tesla, I was thinking of Max Headroom (who I believe first appeared in lawnmower man, which is a Stephen King, right?)...anyway I don't think the character was developed in that movie but the special effects were, and he's one of the first popularized AI characters ever (I was thinking about Jeffery's threads, at the time)

Added: guess I'm wrong:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Headroom_(character)

HEH!!! Also wrong about Lawnmower Man:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lawnmower_Man_(film)
Wow...this is strange:


The plot of Stephen King's 1975 short story "The Lawnmower Man" concerns Harold Parkette, who hires "Pastoral Greenery and Outdoor Services Inc." to cut his lawn. The serviceman who arrives to do the job has a lawnmower that mows the lawn by itself while he crawls, naked, behind the mower, eating the grass. The serviceman himself is actually a satyr who worships the Greek god Pan. When Parkette tries to call the police, the mower and its owner ritually kill him as a sacrifice to Pan.

Jeez...sorry...brain fart, I guess

Anyways...sorry, I'll try to stay on topic!

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

That's kinda sync-y tesla, I was thinking of Max Headroom (who I believe first appeared in lawnmower man, which is a Stephen King, right?)...anyway I don't think the character was developed in that movie but the special effects were, and he's one of the first popularized AI characters ever (I was thinking about Jeffery's threads, at the time)

Added: guess I'm wrong:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Headroom_(character)

HEH!!! Also wrong about Lawnmower Man:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lawnmower_Man_(film)
Wow...this is strange:


The plot of Stephen King's 1975 short story "The Lawnmower Man" concerns Harold Parkette, who hires "Pastoral Greenery and Outdoor Services Inc." to cut his lawn. The serviceman who arrives to do the job has a lawnmower that mows the lawn by itself while he crawls, naked, behind the mower, eating the grass. The serviceman himself is actually a satyr who worships the Greek god Pan. When Parkette tries to call the police, the mower and its owner ritually kill him as a sacrifice to Pan.

Jeez...sorry...brain fart, I guess

Anyways...sorry, I'll try to stay on topic!

You're not wrong, there was another Lawnmower Man movie, lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lawnmower_Man_(film)


Dr. Lawrence Angelo works for Virtual Space Industries, running experiments in increasing the intelligence of chimpanzees using drugs and virtual reality. One of the chimps escapes using the warfare tactics he was being trained for. Dr. Angelo is generally a pacifist, who would rather explore the intelligence-enhancing potential of his research without applying it for military purposes.

Jobe Smith, a local greenskeeper with an unknown learning disability, lives in the garden shed owned by the local priest, Father Francis McKeen. McKeen's brother, Terry, is a local landscape gardener and employs Jobe to help him with odd jobs. Father McKeen punishes the challenged Jobe with a belt whenever he fails to complete his chores.

Dr. Angelo realizes he needs a human subject to work with, and he spots Jobe mowing his lawn. Peter Parkette, Dr. Angelo's young neighbor, is friends with Jobe. Dr. Angelo invites both of them over to play some virtual reality games. Learning more about Jobe, Angelo persuades him to participate in his experiments, letting him know it will make him smarter. Jobe agrees and begins the program. Dr. Angelo makes it a point to redesign all the intelligence-boosting treatments without the "aggression factors" used in the chimpanzee experiments.

Jobe soon becomes smarter, for example, learning Latin in only two hours. Meanwhile Jobe also begins a sexual relationship with a young rich widow, Marnie. However, Jobe begins to display telepathic abilities and have hallucinations. He continues training at the lab, until an accident makes Dr. Angelo shut the program down. The project director, Sebastian Timms, employed by a mysterious agency known as The Shop, keeps tabs on the progress of the experiment, and discreetly swaps Dr. Angelo's new medications with the old Project 5 supply (reintroducing the "aggression factors" into the treatment).

Jobe develops telekinetic and pyrokinetic powers and takes Marnie to the lab to make love to her while in virtual reality. Something goes wrong in the simulation when Jobe's virtual avatar becomes violent, attacking her mind directly; Marnie is driven insane, laughing endlessly at nothing.

Jobe's powers continue to grow, but the treatments are also affecting his mental stability, and he decides to exact revenge on those who abused him when he was "dumb": Father McKeen is engulfed in flames, a bully named Jake is put into a catatonic state by a mental "lawnmower man" continually mowing his brain, and a lawnmower invention of Jobe's runs down Harold, Peter's abusive father. Jobe uses his telepathic abilities to make the investigating police attribute it all to "bizarre accidents" in front of Dr. Angelo.

Jobe believes his final stage of evolution is to become "pure energy" in the VSI computer mainframe, and from there reach into all the systems of the world. He promises his "birth" will be signaled by every telephone on the planet ringing simultaneously. The Shop sends a team to capture Jobe, but they are ineffective against his abilities and he scatters their molecules. Jobe uses the lab equipment to enter the mainframe computer, abandoning his body to become a wholly virtual being, leaving his body behind like a husk.

Dr. Angelo remotely infects the VSI computer, encrypting all of the links to the outside world, trapping Jobe in the mainframe. As Jobe searches for an unencrypted network connection, Dr. Angelo primes bombs to destroy the building. Feeling responsible for what has happened to Jobe, Angelo then joins him in virtual reality to try to reason with him. Jobe overpowers and crucifies him, then continues to search for a network connection. Peter runs into the building; Jobe still cares for him and allows Dr. Angelo to go free in order to rescue Peter. Jobe forces a computer-connected lock to open, allowing Peter and Dr. Angelo to escape. Jobe escapes through a backdoor as the building is destroyed in multiple explosions.

Back at home with Peter, Dr. Angelo and Peter's mother Carla (who has become a romantic interest) are about to leave when their telephone rings, followed by the noise of a second, and then hundreds, all around the globe.

Btw I read that short story you mentioned a few years ago and it was a real WTF moment. lol!

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

p.s. No offense to anyone in this thread, but let's not talk about violence against the system or gov't.

That is not my approach to solving the problem of corruption. Violence only helps the wrong side cook their books.

Please, when posting to MKULTRA threads, especially this one, users should refrain from suggesting any "action" or "violence" (of any kind).

You should feel free to describe things you have experienced in the past or present.
But please do NOT suggest that in the present or future, we subjects (and suspected subjects) should "organize" to cause harm to any group or agency.

The press is pretty powerful on its own, and so is the whistleblowing and legal channel.
Please try to exhaust all of these options before trying to encourage strangers to get intro trouble.

The point of this thread is disclosure, not baiting the police.

People who try to instigate havoc in the lives of others are called "handlers".
I really hope that Handlers are not on PA posing as Victims.

Targeted Individuals exist, and gangstalking exists -- this isn't some game we are playing in our heads, there are real people and monsters out there who DO watch and read everything we say and DO get offended --

seriously, don't beg to be neutralized or drag us into that.

[anonymous]

my privacy standards have changed - 5/10/16 - apologies for the many edits of public comments

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Again, no offense -- just be careful what you say -- guess I am a tad paranoid about panty-twisting the thought police!

"They are guarding all the doors, they are holding all the keys" ~ The Matrix

I can't dodge bullets, can you? lol or cars

[anonymous]

my privacy standards have changed - 5/10/16 - apologies for the many edits of public comments

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

I was watching that creepy Queensryche music video today for a few minutes, "Operation Mindcrime".
It's in a few other threads, but could someone help me scope out the semi-subliminals in the background of the video?
Every once in a while a random word or image will appear behind the performers and the character actor throughout the film.
Also some of the subjects make gestures that seem symbolic (watch the older gentleman at the end).

Very cool movie.

(I am having trouble getting Youtube to work atm, omg)

vAI2QOBMlTA
Queensryche - Operation: Mindcrime


also don't miss:

k0BWlvnBmIE
Katy Perry - Wide Awake

yMVV_HsHcX0
Judas Priest - Electric Eye (live!)

_se_CYDm8jI
Scorpions - Media Overkill

[anonymous]

my privacy standards have changed - 5/10/16 - apologies for the many edits of public comments

[Project_Buggy_Beach]

I've seen that movie recently too, well, part of it.

Cornball made me LOL -- but you are right, it was heavy on the cheese,
but the concept is frightening.

I was focusing more on the concept of the software being used to troll for desired traits, in The Last Starfighter it was an alien race that had installed warship simulator console platforms all over the universe searching for high performers that could sufficiently pilot a hybrid ship and then to use these high score individuals to help fight their off world war...

The Lawnmower Man movie was more an idea of a mildly retarded individual being taken over by a spirit in cyberspace, what's the difference between cyber space and the spirit world?

Connecting the dots when we see commando style school shooters go AWOL to FSP's I don't believe is a huge stretch but I don't believe all of them are evil, like you said they're being exposed to a powerful force they didn't expect to run into when just trying to play and have fun. Their self identity and self worth becomes confused and infused with their online characters similar to the rash of DND suicides that took place in the 1980's, but the difference there was the DND world was based on fantasy and didn't try to mimic reality. The Holographic Universe is a book that's been referenced many times in Avalon, and I believe is a more correct explanation for the violence, simply, your thoughts do manifest in reality.

I don't condone violence or suggest it, at the same time there are situations when even if you are doomed to failure and may die, you have to try because allowing the conditions to continue as they are is intolerable. Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle.

[donk]

...

She was born in Ecuador and was taken by her father to a "specialist" when she was a kid when she exhibited exames of telekenisis and prescience a couple times in a short period. Her father was American scientist working for University of Alabama...she was in the first group ever tested for what was then an experimental growth hormone, which she took daily injections of as she was tiny and I guess that wasn't acceptable to the 'rents...or they maybe they made some medical excuse, I can't get clarity as the father is estranged and mother is clueless...

So I got some more info when my babe called her dad for Father's Day: apparently she was the FIRST of what he called HGH (human growth hormone, apparently that's as scientific of a name as they gave it, they don't have specific types? Well they didn't in the early 80's, anyway), a group of 10-12 children, all but her and one other kid died from it.

She has memory of it "burning her brain" when she was 1 or whenever and taking it. Also, she has recall of an incident where her "nanny" dropped her at 6 months, which softened her skull, damaged her pituitary, and apparently brought on "dwarfism", the reason the 'rents decided to try the experimental therapy. She is about 5 foot nothing, as opposed to the 3 feet the damaged pituitary gland was supposed to make her.

She remembers not pain at 6 months, but a lightness, like her brain was removed. The nanny left her in the crib, where she lay for hours, her mom turned on the light and put her finger on her head, and she says she felt the feeling her mom had of the finger pushing into her soft skull, remembers her yelping for her dad, and was uncharacteristically specific in recalling she went to the "Kennedy Hospital", which I guess I need to research, where they said they immediate operation would kill her, so they had to let the swelling and whatever reaction her brain had play out before they could act. She didn’t remember anything after that, until a year later when she recalls the burning brain to be the worst feeling in her life.

I can’t imagine the feeling of being 6 months left in crib for hours alone (the nanny just bolted, god knows what the consequences were to what was really a slave—Ecuador rich/poor divide was such that the poorest were happy to be slaves…I mean ‘maids’…in the upper middle class families), and I was chilled listening to her recount this (again, she had told me before but less detail and different context).

Anyway I got fascinated with the concept from “Fringe”, I think it was…JJ Abrahms seems to use HGH as a device in some of the plots of some of his works—it was definitely the second or third mention that caught my attention but the star of that series had some kind of experimental therapy and I am not sure there is any connection, though I wanted to put the idea out there and hash it out. Also the hwhole child experiment thing with 90% of the kids dying…in Fringe all the kids were “failed” experiments except the star and one other

Anyway just rambling, any insight is appreciated...

[donk]

Forgot one thing: her dad said the original treatment (that killed all the kids) was actual HGH supposedly harvest from actual human pituitary glands (from deceased humans), and that she was switched to a more artificial/synthesized treatment that I guess was less fatal

[Ahnung-quay]

I met a woman a few years ago that had been a victim of an MKULTRA type program when she was a child. She has quite a few psychic abilities.

She has a somewhat disordered personality and some would call her a psychiatric case. She can become very changeable and anxious. However, she indicated that her present personality is nothing compared to the way she was before she started healing. She told several of us that she didn't remember most events from her childhood until she started her own healing process. She said that the memories, when they started coming were horrible; not a normal childhood at all.

The way she chose to heal was to sun dance with the Lakota people and that is how she began recovering memories.

She now uses her psychic abilities and her ability to travel the inter-dimensional highway in spiritual ways. She gives teachings and leads ceremonies. I believe she also has had contact with ET's which the Lakota (and most other Native Americans) call star people.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Forgot one thing: her dad said the original treatment (that killed all the kids) was actual HGH supposedly harvest from actual human pituitary glands (from deceased humans), and that she was switched to a more artificial/synthesized treatment that I guess was less fatal

This is what my uncle claims happened to Arnold Schwarzenegger when his brother died.