It's December 21 2012 already in Indonesia,..NOTHING happen!..boring life as usual

[niki]

unfortunately, this *limited* reality is often much more mundane than human's imaginations/fantasy/wishful-t­­hinking

it's already December 21 2012 here (in Indonesia), and nothing, I repeat, nothing happened.
go back to our ordinary boring real life, guys

[Wind]

Still five and a half hours left:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/maya

It probably will be a gradual shift as like many say.

[Calz]

Nothing to see here folks ... move along ... keep on shopping ...


http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/conspiracy/story/phenomena/mayan-prophecy/northern-lights_dpa-Landov.jpg

[kreagle]

'Hunkered Down',.......or.......Calm and Secured?


http://thechaniproject.com/forum/omg.jpg



1 John 4:18 (KJV)

18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

http://www.bedbugpestcontrolbronx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/happy-family-51.jpg


Romans 8:31
King James Version (KJV)

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

[markpierre]

Don't be so sure that nothing happened. I had a pretty interesting day, and it isn't even solstice yet. More than satisfied any expectations I might have had, including surprise.

So what were your expectations that were so fulfillingly let down? Were you listening to someone other than yourself?

[Rollo]

I was dreaming tonight about being in the ruins of Mayan house and I found beautifly made human size wings and the day just started;)

[toad]

Let's say for the sake of conversation I believed in all this, I don't think it can be so literal. Everyone's watch is different, maybe something will happen on the day or two or five days from now, in hind sight we would agree the Mayans were right. Everyone calm down the night sky is particularly beautiful tonight.

[steveofengland]

And who's time zone would you think would be correct? For instance if the moment of exact happening were 11.23AM GMT on the 21st December 2012, would that not mean it would be a completely different time on the 22nd of December in Australia?
I mean if anything were to happen of course.

[modwiz]

Niki,
Boring as usual? Sorry to hear that. My life has not been boring and it has needed nothing to spice it up. It has been frustrating and maddening sometimes, but when it comes to keeping myself amused, I can do that. Sounds like you have work to do and it has nothing to do with cosmic alignments. A lot of the energy people are feeling is the culmination of effort and work. Focus and intention. The kinds of things that help keep one from getting bored.

BTW. Indonesia is a part of the world I feel attracted to. The vulcanism and climate of the country intrigues me. I also am drawn to India. The parent culture of much of that part of the world.

It is my wish that you find a path to walk that bears the fruit you seek. It is a wonderful path but get ready to break a few sweats, unless this Solstice kicks the world in the pants and everyone moves up a few notches. I'd like that, but do not 'see' it happening. Being myopic on this wouldn't hurt my feelings.

[161803398]

Wiki: An apocalypse (Ancient Greek: ἀποκάλυψις apocálypsis, from ἀπό and καλύπτω meaning 'un-covering'), translated literally from Greek, is a disclosure of knowledge, hidden from humanity in an era dominated by falsehood and misconception, i.e., a lifting of the veil or revelation, although this sense did not enter English until the 14th century.[1] In religious contexts it is usually a disclosure of something hidden In the Revelation of John (Greek Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰωάννου, Apocalypsis Ioannou), the last book of the New Testament, the revelation which John receives is that of the ultimate victory of good over evil and the end of the present age, and that is the primary meaning of the term, one that dates to 1175.[2] Today, it is commonly used in reference to any prophetic revelation or so-called End Time scenario, or to the end of the world in general.

[161803398]

rxMymXI4KAg

[ThePythonicCow]

Still five and a half hours left:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/maya

It probably will be a gradual shift as like many say.

Oh dear - it's now about 7 minutes before the final moment, and the timeanddate.com website is not working:




connect to upstream server timedout

Host: www.timeanddate.com

Url: /countdown/maya

===

P.S. -- Now at 5 minutes 30 seconds, it's working again :).

===

P.P.S. -- We Made It !! :)

[toad]

incase the universe implodes, I love you all.

Ps. So long and thanks for all the fish.

[apokalypse]

just hate see those negative words...PLEASE STOP THE FEAR, OUR SOUL IS ETERNITY SO WHY YOU FEAR OF DEATH?

[ThePythonicCow]

just hate see those negative words...PLEASE STOP THE FEAR, OUR SOUL IS ETERNITY SO WHY YOU FEAR OF DEATH?

So ... should I be expecting a request to change your screen name soon ;) ?

[toad]

Now what to do at 5am

[Calz]

:cow::haha:

[778 neighbour of some guy]

rxMymXI4KAg


That was a very entertaining presentation, Flash posted it a few days ago too, an interesting discussion came out of that.

[ThePythonicCow]

That was a very entertaining presentation, Flash posted it a few days ago too, an interesting discussion came out of that.
Yes, that was a good thread that Flash started. See here: Next Friday every Friday, the combining thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53011-Next-Friday-every-Friday-the-combining-thread).

[Fred Steeves]

just hate see those negative words...PLEASE STOP THE FEAR, OUR SOUL IS ETERNITY SO WHY YOU FEAR OF DEATH?

So ... should I be expecting a request to change your screen name soon ;) ?


Although Paul::p

An apocalypse (Ancient Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek): ἀποκάλυψις (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BC%80%CF%80%CE%BF%CE%BA%CE%AC%CE%BB%CF%85%CF%88%CE%B9%CF%82) apocálypsis, from ἀπό (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BC%80%CF%80%CF%8C) and καλύπτω (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BA%CE%B1%CE%BB%CF%8D%CF%80%CF%84%CF%89) meaning 'un-covering'), translated literally from Greek, is a disclosure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disclosure) of knowledge, hidden from humanity in an era dominated by falsehood and misconception, i.e., a lifting of the veil or revelation,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse

[apokalypse]

i heard on radio there's people are ready for it...right now they in high grounds and bunkers.

[ThePythonicCow]

An apocalypse ... is a disclosure of knowledge, hidden from humanity in an era dominated by falsehood and misconception, i.e., a lifting of the veil or revelation ...

The word currently has other, more common, meanings (quoting Google):

The complete final destruction of the world, esp. as described in the biblical book of Revelation.
An event involving destruction or damage on an awesome or catastrophic scale.


:) :cow: :)

[kreagle]

i heard on radio there's people are ready for it...right now they in high grounds and bunkers.


Now,....which 'state' is that located in?,.......Oh, yeah!,.....they call it 'the State of Confusion!'

[DeDukshyn]

Hehe, well I hope peoples fear get a little alleviated through all this, by just not having a doomsday.

My entire family awoke at the exact time of supposed galactic alignment last night, and a few other odd "feelings". What does this mean? Who cares! We made it past Doomsday!!! YAYY!! lol!, now let's get wasted!!! And carry a little more bounce in our step from this day forward; spread a little cheer, a little love ... find the "moment" of equilibrium. ;) ;)

[Nick Matkin]

Not my words, but I couldn't have put it better myself:

"Here's what really, REALLY annoys me about conspiracy nuts - they simply WILL NOT give us the satisfaction of appearing in public after one of their witless predictions goes tits-up to allow us to point and laugh openly. Aliens didn't land during the Olympic closing ceremony. There wasn't a huge 'false flag' terrorist attack on London 2012. The world hasn't ended because a new cycle of the Mayan calendar started. After wasting so many people's time and effort, at least take the shame."

Nick...

[niki]

now I'm seriously even starting to -sadly- doubt about almost ALL the things that this forum ever taught me, eg: is it true there is a "Higher Dimension" such as 4D, 5D, etc? is there really a "spiritual", higher existence? and how about the whole "benevolent E.T" things often spoken among the "new age / enlightened" circle & people? is that all really real, or just some oh-so-beautiful human's creative Imaginations and wishful-thinking/fantasy?

HOW can I know for SURE that it's all REAL??...

believing, hoping, wishing, and imagining Santa Claus or flying monster spaghetti doesn't automatically make them exist . that's called delusional.
and not the Truth.

[niki]

Not my words, but I couldn't have put it better myself:

"Here's what really, REALLY annoys me about conspiracy nuts - they simply WILL NOT give us the satisfaction of appearing in public after one of their witless predictions goes tits-up to allow us to point and laugh openly. Aliens didn't land during the Olympic closing ceremony. There wasn't a huge 'false flag' terrorist attack on London 2012. The world hasn't ended because a new cycle of the Mayan calendar started. After wasting so many people's time and effort, at least take the shame."

Nick...

@Nick Matkin : well said.. totally agree.

[Flash]

Do you realise that just the fact that we are all here, on the same thread, from all over the world may be just that, the change, 12/21/12......., the start of new planet.

Indonesia, UK, USA, France, Finland, Australia, Canada, Toad, Massachusset, Netherlands, Fred, Flash.

I am teasing for the names, they did not have a flag, except for Modwiz, he represent the future of USA. Fred in the present is from USA and me from
Canada, but French speaking (frog), so maybe I match with Toad, whom I do not know where he is from.

[niki]

Do you realise that just the fact that we are all here, on the same thread, from all over the world may be just that, the change, 12/21/12......., the start of new planet.

Indonesia, UK, USA, France, Finland, Australia, Canada, Toad, Massachusset, Netherlands, Fred, Flash.

I am teasing for the names, they did not have a flag, except for Modwiz, he represent the future of USA. Fred in the present is from USA and me from
Canada, but French speaking (frog), so maybe I match with Toad, whom I do not know where he is from.

@Flash : everybody from around the world is here simply because of the hyped-up Hollywood movies, news, publications etc etc about this whole "2012" thing, which then easily becomes a hype around the planet.

simple reason.
Occam's razor at work (as well as still using a bit of critical-thinking & common-sense).
there is still no solid proof of this whole "enlightenment", as far as I can see.

[Flash]

Do you realise that just the fact that we are all here, on the same thread, from all over the world may be just that, the change, 12/21/12......., the start of new planet.

Indonesia, UK, USA, France, Finland, Australia, Canada, Toad, Massachusset, Netherlands, Fred, Flash.

I am teasing for the names, they did not have a flag, except for Modwiz, he represent the future of USA. Fred in the present is from USA and me from
Canada, but French speaking (frog), so maybe I match with Toad, whom I do not know where he is from.

@Flash : everybody from around the world is here simply because of the hyped-up Hollywood movies, news, publications etc etc about this whole "2012" thing, which then easily becomes a hype around the planet.

simple reason.
Occam's razor at work (as well as still using a bit of critical-thinking & common-sense).
there is still no solid proof of this whole "enlightenment", as far as I can see.

Niki, you are completely missing my point. My point has nothing to do with Hollywood for God sake. Nor with 21 december 2012 as a matter of fact. I only use the date to demonstrate a point, and this point is:

you have here a forum linking together people from all the places listed above in my previous post. When, in the history of humanity, has this happened? Never. Up to mid 90's this was impossible.

The new world is in fact the humanity coming together in a very direct manner. Avalon being both the avant-garde and the proof of it.

Leave the Occam's razor and critical thinking/common sense stuff for others than me please, this is bits insulting.

[KiwiElf]

The title of your thread says it all, Niki - being bored is a choice. When you decide your life is no longer boring and MOVE in that direction and ACT on it, then you will begin your journey. Try focusing on your life becoming exciting instead.

Change starts first from within oneself ;) - Merry Xmas :)

[niki]

The title of your thread says it all, Niki - being bored is a choice. When you decide your life is no longer boring and MOVE in that direction and ACT on it, then you will begin your journey. Try focusing on your life becoming exciting instead.

Change starts first from within oneself ;) - Merry Xmas :)

although your post is well-meant, but unfortunately, I really honestly don't see anything 'special' with this whole "DO IT, ACT ON IT" message,
I (& many sincerely GOOD people in this world) have already known about all these stuff, even without these whole "New-Agey, Ascension, spiritual-ish" stuff.

what I DO want to ask is: what about all those whole things about "December 21 2012" like: Ascension, E.T intervention, Galactic Federation of Light, Higher-dimensions, ascension to 5D, Disclosure, and many other 'oh-so-wonderful' things (& predictions) that's being made in this forum?...
now, with NOTHING practically and literally happened in this long-prophesied super-important December 21 2012 date,
can I still believe in all those things mentioned above?.. are they really *real* ? .. or just some 'creative' human's Imaginations and made-up wishful-thinking/hopeful/fantasy?

at this point, I really need a real critical, common-sense, sincere & honest answer, not another sugar-coating metaphorical language anymore, it won't work anymore for me.

[Cristian]

now I'm seriously even starting to -sadly- doubt about almost ALL the things that this forum ever taught me, eg: is it true there is a "Higher Dimension" such as 4D, 5D, etc? is there really a "spiritual", higher existence? and how about the whole "benevolent E.T" things often spoken among the "new age / enlightened" circle & people? is that all really real, or just some oh-so-beautiful human's creative Imaginations and wishful-thinking/fantasy?

HOW can I know for SURE that it's all REAL??...

believing, hoping, wishing, and imagining Santa Claus or flying monster spaghetti doesn't automatically make them exist . that's called delusional.
and not the Truth.

Hi Niki,

Why do you need to know something for sure? Why do you look at others for answers and never within you?

You will know the truth, when you will stop using the brain and start using the heart.saaaaaaa(last word typed by my cat :) )

[161803398]

There isn't anything you can't learn from. The thing is you might not learn what you expected.

Certainly there are many strange things going on in the world and no one can explain them. We can't explain them and if we try to see or say things that we really don't know we go to far if we are trying to be accurate. In many cases, the most we can say is that we don't know but there is certainly something going on....and then we can try to find out what it is. Some people had greater expectations from the end of the Mayan calendar than others. I enjoyed just trying to find out if there was anything to it. What I did find out is that no one knew what it meant and everyone is guessing or lying. It's kind of nice to find something that no one understands the meaning of. I enjoyed reading all the bs as well. I also learned that the Sun orbits the centre of the Galaxy which possibly contains a black hole.

I think that many people hoped that somehow 2012 would help us get rid of the bastards that are running the world...that was probably the biggest hope for many.

But the ascension business bothered me because in my view it was a pretty easy out in the case of 2012.

There was a documentary about the Mayans that showed Graham Hancock* at a nice hotel giving a lecture about the Mayan calendar and some actual Mayans cleaning tables and working the bar. I think that's the biggest lesson we should learn...but probably no one is gonna learn that one. NEXT!!!!

*not that I don't enjoy reading Graham Hancock

[161803398]

It would be a mistake to stop believing anything in this forum. I went through that stage...long ago and before this forum...when, even though I had had some amazing paranormal experiences, I became immersed in the so called 3D. I stopped believing in anything else....fortunately this was short lived. I told a friend of mine who is a scientist what had happened, he freaked and started talking about werewolves...OMG...but I got the point.

But people have to remember to keep one foot on the ground...otherwise what is going to happen to the actual Mayans while everyone is waiting for ascension. I hope you understand my point.

OH, and some wise person once told me that BOREDOM is the tip of the iceberg of isolation.

[D-Day]

Hi Niki,

As someone just mentioned above, all the answers you seek are already within you.

Right now, your intution is giving you subtle hints to help steer/point you in the right direction.

... it's time you started listening!

There are many seemingly knowledgable people on this forum who have various opinoins aobut what's going on in this world, who's controlling everything, how they're doing it, what their next moves might be, and what the future may hold for humanity... but they're ALL just speculating!

None of us have all the answers... despite the fact that some of us like to think we do sometimes ;)

In the (almost) two years I've been a member of this forum I've seen many come and go - each with their own unique set of skills, experiences, knowledge, understanding, and beliefs.

Some believed the GFL was going to save them from certain armageddon, some believed Ascended Masters were about to release trillions of $'s in trust fund money to the masses, some believed they were destined to ascend to the 5th dimention to become "beings of light", some believed mass arrests of TPTB were imminent, some believed ET Disclosure was just around the corner... AND (sadly) ALL OF THEM WERE WRONG!!!

So, what does that tell you about this forum, it's membership, and more importanly... about you??

... well, you'll just have to figure that out for yourselff ;)

My only piece of advice would be to trust in yourself and to stop looking outside for all your answers.

You have the ability to control and create your own future/desitiny... there's no need to relinquish any of that control to others. (unless of course you want/choose to)

Time to take your power back and start trusting yourself again!!

Know and trust in yourself, do your own research, draw your own conclusions... and you can't/won't go wrong!!

All the best, Niki :)

[panopticon]

everybody from around the world is here simply because of the hyped-up Hollywood movies, news, publications etc etc about this whole "2012" thing, which then easily becomes a hype around the planet.

simple reason.
Occam's razor at work (as well as still using a bit of critical-thinking & common-sense).
there is still no solid proof of this whole "enlightenment", as far as I can see.

This may be the reason you are a member of this forum.
They are not mine.

As they appear to be the reason you are a member here then I can understand why you may be feeling a bit disillusioned about the long predicted non-event (many here have been saying nothing earth shattering was going to happen on 21 December 2012 by the way).

I have never had an interest in 'this whole "2012" thing'.
I am not a "new ager" and yet again I would ask what is this 'solid proof' you are after.
Proof of what exactly? Enlightenment?
Sorry I must have missed the memo...
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[apokalypse]

so many people got troll yesterday...

[KiwiElf]

And those who will not learn cannot be taught - with all due respect Niki, if you don't look, you certainly won't see.

You have already decided from your own thread that your life is boring. In fact, a quick scan of your other posts across several threads and you're trying the same argument on almost every one of them.

Then I'd say you're already very adept at creating your reality. (You certainly aren't going to get anything different if that's your belief). And ummm... that's just plain good ol' psychology - not a "sugar coated metaphor", to use your own words.

Most members on here have spent many years learning and are still doing so. There is no instant answer or quick fix.

Try the search button at the top of the page - that's what it's there for.

[apokalypse]

what you guys call this? original means of prediction/prophecies from ancients of 2012 something is beautiful for human beginnings like Ascension(what ever you want to make out of it). some people in here find it bull**** but someone intent to misinterpret the true meaning of bull**** prediction/prophecies into something else on Mainstream into apocalyptic event/end of the world...i laugh at people on mainstream poking fun at totally BS misinterpreted true meaning of prediction/prophecies, i believe there was never considered any negative happen on that date on first place but more of positive event.

enough of negative event crap, where's Wilcock and Kerry? correct me if i'm wrong these two come to my mind have said something positive happen on that date. on of video i watched Kerry said something to happen on that date because of looking glass or something according to Insider but Bill Ryan insist nothing will happen on 2012. So much for insider....

[panopticon]

although your post is well-meant, but unfortunately, I really honestly don't see anything 'special' with this whole "DO IT, ACT ON IT" message,
I (& many sincerely GOOD people in this world) have already known about all these stuff, even without these whole "New-Agey, Ascension, spiritual-ish" stuff.

what I DO want to ask is: what about all those whole things about "December 21 2012" like: Ascension, E.T intervention, Galactic Federation of Light, Higher-dimensions, ascension to 5D, Disclosure, and many other 'oh-so-wonderful' things (& predictions) that's being made in this forum?...
now, with NOTHING practically and literally happened in this long-prophesied super-important December 21 2012 date,
can I still believe in all those things mentioned above?.. are they really *real* ? .. or just some 'creative' human's Imaginations and made-up wishful-thinking/hopeful/fantasy?

at this point, I really need a real critical, common-sense, sincere & honest answer, not another sugar-coating metaphorical language anymore, it won't work anymore for me.

I would ask why you needed to believe in all those things at once anyhow?

I don't use 'sugar-coating metaphorical language' and would have to say that you may well need professional help if you feel that you need to believe everything you read.

Yes to critical thinking, yes to common sense but with a caveat. Common sense, by its very definition, limits the imagination so don't take things that are declared as "self evident truths" as being true just because it is the general consensus...

All the greatest steps forward have been done by those who dreamt of a different way of seeing the world. Whether it was a solution to a problem (sometimes abstract theoretical ones, sometimes real world practical applications), a way of understanding the world and/or a view on the so-called human condition the major leaps have been done by people who didn't follow the general consensus, who thought differently to the mass of the population. I think the majority of them were ridiculed by their peers but they stood their ground and now we remember them as being great innovators and thinkers.

Maybe one day you will find a solution that goes against the grain and then you will have to make the decision of whether to rely on what others have told you as being true and what you have discovered to be true. I hope on that day you wont have someone talk to you about common sense, absolute proof and general consensus.

I really am a tad confused as to why you placed so much importance on a date.

You obviously did otherwise you are simply being disingenuous and ridiculing people who have different beliefs/understandings to yourself. Sadly having read back through your post history I think this is probably the case, but it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong.
Regards,
Panopticon

[apokalypse]

when the last time what Prophecies/Prediction came true with clear statement? like This event will happen on this date...i find interesting that Prophecies/Prediction come true after event happen.

[panopticon]

when the last time what Prophecies/Prediction came true with clear statement? like This event will happen on this date...i find interesting that Prophecies/Prediction come true after event happen.

G'day Apokalypse,

There's a long history of failed "end of days" predictions.
Check out this list at Wikipedia (it's too long to post):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[danceblackcatdance]

life is boring... i dont think so :) welcome to the 'new age' niki... if you dont like what you see, take a look at yourself xx

[Eagle Eye]

The lesson is learned , time to move to the next one.

[niki]

The lesson is learned , time to move to the next one.

what 'lesson'?..

with all honesty, I simply can't respect short yet trying to sound 'deep' or 'intelligent' comment posts like this one.
you have to be more specific.

because we are talking about also MANY 2012 believers-turned-into-skeptics-and-critics kind of people here (which I've found in many places across the internet, "2012" forums, websites, & discussions, and to be fair, these type of 'skeptics' and 'critical' people DO have their valid arguments too),
that, just like me, needs at least a more thorough and detailed answers/responses, in order for them to at least re-consider & 'convert' them back into "believers" again, rather than these one-liner simplistic (& in a way, very ignorant as well) responses like this.

no offense, I'm just being straight-forwardly honest here.

[niki]

I think unfortunately, some (or even quite many) people still don't understand what I really exactly mean by this thread:

to put it in the most straight-forward manner:
I simply am honestly and critically curious & want to ask:
If most of you here ("new age" type especially) still kept repeating the statement that "all change ONLY comes from WITHIN, and then all the external/outside things will follow", then my sincere honest critical questions are:

1) isn't this all just the same 'common, ordinary' advices as already many motivational, self-help books & teachings that seems very 'mainstream' and popular nowadays? and even these kind of advices I would say is a very basic common-sense ones, albeit a very simplistic ones & can be counter-argued, ie: how about those poor starving hungry born in war zones children in Africa, that they have HOPED & TRIED to "CHANGE from within" -like so many of you "new age" people simplistically often said- , yet obviously, the harsh REALITY is: they are still poor starving hungry and dying, many of them!... where all these 'basic' new-age advices come into place in those kind of harsh reality?.. Or, perhaps many of you here have overlooked, or even try to close your eyes to these whole "oh so negative" OTHER side of reality?.. but, reality IS reality nevertheless, isn't it?

2) Even then, where are all the certain prophecies even often mentioned in this forum eg: "Ascension, E.T intervention, Galactic Federation of Light, Higher-dimensions, ascension to 5D, Disclosure, and many other 'oh-so-wonderful' things predictions, prophecies, which are essentially, same thing as PROMISES ??...
after this whole December 21 2012 have come and go with NOTHING pretty much happening, one thing I would really dislike -even genuinely hate, honestly- are:

a) all these "new age" people, 'gurus' , channelings, "Ascended Maters" etc etc people just simply -and cunningly- postpone the date into the later date (eg: year 2013, 2014, 2030, etc etc) . now if this is the case, then isn't it the same with all those religions prophecies that many of you here often discredit as well?.. what makes you different then with all those 'religious' type of people, who will simply blindly believe in all these whole "2012" especially "December 21 2012" prophecies?..

b) these same 'gurus' also just easily, simply -and cunningly- changed their words/sentences and said that "the Change is actually supposed to come from within ONLY", "the Change is continuous" etc etc etc... which is, again, like I've explained at the beginning of this post, that these are all actually simply just some very BASIC, & common-sense 'advices' that in fact actually ELIMINATE any needs for the "2012" gurus, prophecies, and their 'teachings' , theories, etc!

Answer me in good, thorough, detailed, and respectable arguments,
and you might perhaps make me "see" what I haven't seen, and perhaps even make me apologize, and being OPEN-minded again to believe in all these whole "2012, New Age" things.
until then, in all honesty, I would say I deserve to remain skeptic (& critical) in not believing what these whole "2012", and even this forum's many theories & 'findings' (even still regard them probably as cleverly & creatively man-made theories, stories, or even just some mere man's hope/fantasy/wishful-thinking!).

Last but not least, I will be very honest in finally stating my own personal honest reasoning about why I'm making this thread:
Too many people are disappointed in this whole December 21 2012 things (not only me), so I (and many others disappointed side of people) deserve a right (and reasonings back) to know the arguments from the "believers" side. I think it's only natural, and honest/sincere, in expecting some intelligent and well-thorough feedback in all of this important matters. all for the sake of only, and only, the REAL truth of what's really going on.

-regards from Indonesia-

[Flash]

I was not a believer for the date, never thought anything substantial could happen on that precise date, although I think that the mindset of humans is actually shifting althogether, over a longer period of time, could even be 1-2 centuries more. Some say they have experienced a surge of energy, that it comes from their imagination or from reality matters not. The opening of oneself does. I still do not comprehend why some would believe and desire catastrophic events if the changes can happen in a smoother fashion with not too much hurt.

However,


If most of you here ("new age" type especially) still kept repeating the statement that "all change ONLY comes from WITHIN, and then all the external/outside things will follow", then my sincere


these same 'gurus' also just easily, simply -and cunningly- changed their words/sentences and said that "the Change is actually supposed to come from within ONLY", "the Change is continuous" etc etc etc... which is, again, like I've explained at the beginning of this post, that these are all actually simply just some very BASIC, & common-sense 'advices' that in fact actually ELIMINATE any needs for the "2012" gurus, prophecies, and their 'teachings' , theories, etc!

Answer me in good, thorough, detailed, and respectable arguments,
and you might perhaps make me "see" what I haven't seen, and perhaps even make me apologize, and being OPEN-minded again to believe in all these whole "2012, New Age" things.

however, I do think you are quite unfair to this forum and have not done your homework on it.

Before asking from us answer to your questions arising from sheer frustration, may be we could ask you to do your homework and look at the numerous number of threads here that never bought into the 2012 saga and that area quite thorough in research and views about the universe and its laws.

May be I could start by telling you to read, in it entirety, the following threads:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53442-Now-that-the-distractions-of-predicted-catastrophes-have-come-and-gone-what-s-left

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?17872-The-Question-of-Lithium--Alchemy-dimensions-shapeshifters-aliens-existence-reality..-

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53011-Next-Friday-every-Friday-the-combining-thread

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit&p=605806&highlight=horus#post605806

and many more on healt, the Vatican, school shotings, etc, even Fulford threads on Asia.

So please, do not limit us to the 2012 ideas and look beyond. THen come back and ask us real sturdy question about the REAL truth as you say.

I am very sorry you believed in the 2012 saga so much and had to go through so much disappointment.

[Napping]

I think unfortunately, some (or even quite many) people still don't understand what I really exactly mean by this thread:

to put it in the most straight-forward manner:
I simply am honestly and critically curious & want to ask:
If most of you here ("new age" type especially) still kept repeating the statement that "all change ONLY comes from WITHIN, and then all the external/outside things will follow", then my sincere honest critical questions are:

1) isn't this all just the same 'common, ordinary' advices as already many motivational, self-help books & teachings that seems very 'mainstream' and popular nowadays? and even these kind of advices I would say is a very basic common-sense ones, albeit a very simplistic ones & can be counter-argued, ie: how about those poor starving hungry born in war zones children in Africa, that they have HOPED & TRIED to "CHANGE from within" -like so many of you "new age" people simplistically often said- , yet obviously, the harsh REALITY is: they are still poor starving hungry and dying, many of them!... where all these 'basic' new-age advices come into place in those kind of harsh reality?.. Or, perhaps many of you here have overlooked, or even try to close your eyes to these whole "oh so negative" OTHER side of reality?.. but, reality IS reality nevertheless, isn't it?

2) Even then, where are all the certain prophecies even often mentioned in this forum eg: "Ascension, E.T intervention, Galactic Federation of Light, Higher-dimensions, ascension to 5D, Disclosure, and many other 'oh-so-wonderful' things predictions, prophecies, which are essentially, same thing as PROMISES ??...
after this whole December 21 2012 have come and go with NOTHING pretty much happening, one thing I would really dislike -even genuinely hate, honestly- are:

a) all these "new age" people, 'gurus' , channelings, "Ascended Maters" etc etc people just simply -and cunningly- postpone the date into the later date (eg: year 2013, 2014, 2030, etc etc) . now if this is the case, then isn't it the same with all those religions prophecies that many of you here often discredit as well?.. what makes you different then with all those 'religious' type of people, who will simply blindly believe in all these whole "2012" especially "December 21 2012" prophecies?..

b) these same 'gurus' also just easily, simply -and cunningly- changed their words/sentences and said that "the Change is actually supposed to come from within ONLY", "the Change is continuous" etc etc etc... which is, again, like I've explained at the beginning of this post, that these are all actually simply just some very BASIC, & common-sense 'advices' that in fact actually ELIMINATE any needs for the "2012" gurus, prophecies, and their 'teachings' , theories, etc!

Answer me in good, thorough, detailed, and respectable arguments,
and you might perhaps make me "see" what I haven't seen, and perhaps even make me apologize, and being OPEN-minded again to believe in all these whole "2012, New Age" things.
until then, in all honesty, I would say I deserve to remain skeptic (& critical) in not believing what these whole "2012", and even this forum's many theories & 'findings' (even still regard them probably as cleverly & creatively man-made theories, stories, or even just some mere man's hope/fantasy/wishful-thinking!).

Last but not least, I will be very honest in finally stating my own personal honest reasoning about why I'm making this thread:
Too many people are disappointed in this whole December 21 2012 things (not only me), so I (and many others disappointed side of people) deserve a right (and reasonings back) to know the arguments from the "believers" side. I think it's only natural, and honest/sincere, in expecting some intelligent and well-thorough feedback in all of this important matters. all for the sake of only, and only, the REAL truth of what's really going on.

-regards from Indonesia-

Nikki your frustration/disappointment is palpable and I can certainly relate. The lure and longing of a life more magical and just than it appears is difficult to ignore. My first experience of this disappointment was asking my father as a 9 year old whether Santa was real and receiving the TRUTH. Life has been full of such disappointments since that time.....yet I keep searching for the magic....or if not the magic, the truth. That's why I've scanned this forum, books, videos for several years.

So what has kept us on the search, when mostly we find disappointment or contradictions? One could argue denial, or escapism. I prefer to think it is an inner knowing. That there is indeed and has been in the past, much more to the world of disparity, scarcity and control that we are all subjected to.

I would use the 2012 failed prophecies, related changelings ie GFL etc to help you have a bit of a spiritual spring clean out. It's an opportunity for you to move many of the so called gurus and fantastical believes of ascension off your radar and re sharpen your focus.

In my personal opinion there is indeed much more to this world than meets the eye which could well be regarded as magical. Graham Hancock's work on our hidden history indeed reveals an amazing world that was, which people have gone to enormous lengths to keep suppressed. The Thrive movement and movie is a step in the right direction towards uncovering some of this suppressed, incredible technology which could lead towards a Utopia I sense that your spirit is craving....and there are many other groups working hard to achieve a similar outcome.

To cut to the chase, don't give up the search for truth and your own contribution in uncovering that truth. Yes, we have been deceived time and time again and will continue to be deceived, but be careful not to throw out the baby with the bath water. There are some wonderfully intelligent and balanced minds on this forum that can help you discern what we should be focussing on and what is a distraction. Bill Ryan and Rmorgan are just two of many examples of individuals I feel are well skilled in this area....although they are human and occasionally get it wrong as well. Utilise them and your own discernment, keep positive and as others have mentioned on this thread, don't discount the importance of inner work (meditation, prayer, service to others, etc) in helping you find the truth and create the "magic".

All the best Nikki, keep your chin up.

[niki]

December 21 2012 have passed and Nothing of a prophesied BIG events happened,
instead, we've seen numerous excuses, changed dates, changed metaphors, etc etc

so unless I can see some more real, concrete, & critical logical proof,
don't expect me to easily fall into the whole "2013" again.
I won't be that naive anymore.

-regards from Truth-seeker from Indonesia-