The effect of Doubt (and after post #9, Jake asks to be unsubscribed)

[Tony]

The effect of Doubt.

The cell door is open: there is corridor with a door at the end
open to the light and we can leave and be free at any time...and yet we doubt.
We are so familiar with our cell that we have locked 'ourselves' in.

All we have to do is look, see, drop, be free. (“see” means be aware.)

Everything is a mere appearance is our awareness-mirror.
The words and images on this screen are also merely appearances.
What is important is the awareness of these images - dropping any comment....now!

There you are. 'You' is a description of a unique awareness.

Don't doubt that awareness.
That uncontaminated awareness, is pure you.

There appear to be 'things' happening out there,
but none of it affects this pure uncontaminated awareness.

We may read on the screen that low caste women in Delhi and children in
parts of South Africa are raped because of beliefs, but, horrific as that is,
it does not change the awareness. Unless we are go to India to do something
about it, it is still an appearance in the mind, to which we react.
Remember: there is always something to react to!

Yes, we want to do something about it, but find we cannot.
All we can do is be aware.
This may make us feel guilty, but that is only the mind consciousness
playing with the appearance, which we do all the time.
All we can actually do is be aware that we are not 'raping' others' minds.

You Know, but the thinking mind wants to know something.
That is precisely what keeps us in the cell.
We play with our ideas, we play with predictions, we play with anything we direct
our consciousness to.
This involvement creates doubt about our true being, because we are always distracted.
Doubt means not being sure, and lacking confidence.
That is the prison.

Not doubting is to do with intuition – the inner teacher.
The inner teacher is not our thinking mind: that is just the chatter box!

Even when we look, see, drop, the chattering will still go on like a self winding radio.
But the chattering is only a residue from the past programmes,
which we tune into and get distracted.

All we have to do is be aware and recognise.
So there is no actual doing involved!

It is so simple, so don't doubt.
Doubt is just a habit.

Be aware that there are people playing with our minds,
creating doubt and distracting us with entertainment (even on forums!),
to which we react.
Can you hear the key in the lock?

Don't believe anything, but trust pure, uncontaminated awareness.
This does not mean fear everything - they are mere appearances.
Of course, we want to do something about all this suffering,
but we can only do what we can do.
Sometimes we just do not have enough data..so again we can only do what we can do.

If we feel we are the body, we will have body awareness
If we think we are the mind, we will have mind awareness.
If we know we are pure awareness, we will be pure awareness awareness.

These words are not the experience of awareness.
'Your' awareness is the experience.

This pure awareness is not sterile.
It is full of love and compassion.

In merely being aware - in recognising pure awareness - we find 'ourselves' outside,
free and in the clear light.






All the best for the new year,:rapture:
Tony

[binemaya]

Hi,
I´ve learned that 97 % of the dreams and ideas we have die in the first 10 seconds and this dying always starts with "BUT". :shocked:

[Tony]

Hi,
I´ve learned that 97 % of the dreams and ideas we have die in the first 10 seconds and this dying always starts with "BUT". :shocked:



It looks like we carry our dreams and idea around 100% of the time.
We just do not recognise we are locked in the Brave New World!

Talking about freedom, is dreaming of being awake.


All the best,
Tony

[binemaya]

How about changing from BUT to WHY NOT? or NOW or THX for the idea, let´s make it happen.....?
thx, :clap2:

[Jake]

Yes we manifest our fears and doubts first. Thank you, Tony. I would disagree regarding 'nnot being able to do something' about attrocities!! I would greatly appreciate if you could explain a bit about the buhddist concept of 'balance through inactivity'. In another discussion, you insinuated that those of us who were discussing the ET enigma were being 'lofty' and turning a blind eye to rape!!! I would suggest that inactivity is BLINDNESS, and (just like christianity) you have justified a way for you to sit on you hands and do nothing. Tony,,, why dont you get off yer arss and go to Africa, and help these children out? Of course you can!!! There can be no awareness gained by sitting on your hands and watching the world burn around you!!! That is a copout!!

So you advise is to sit lotus style, close my eyes, and pretend nothing bad is happening, and even if there was, i cant do anything about it??????

Yes, thank you, very helpful.

[Tony]

Yes we manifest our fears and doubts first. Thank you, Tony. I would disagree regarding 'nnot being able to do something' about attrocities!! I would greatly appreciate if you could explain a bit about the buhddist concept of 'balance through inactivity'. In another discussion, you insinuated that those of us who were discussing the ET enigma were being 'lofty' and turning a blind eye to rape!!! I would suggest that inactivity is BLINDNESS, and (just like christianity) you have justified a way for you to sit on you hands and do nothing. Tony,,, why dont you get off yer arss and go to Africa, and help these children out? Of course you can!!! There can be no awareness gained by sitting on your hands and watching the world burn around you!!! That is a copout!!

So you advise is to sit lotus style, close my eyes, and pretend nothing bad is happening, and even if there was, i cant do anything about it??????

Yes, thank you, very helpful.





Ah, I see you are choosing to misunderstand again Jake.
There is a relative reality, which is the temporary comings and goings in the world,
and there is absolute reality, our never changing essence,

If one muddles them up in a topic one will get confused.



All the best,
Tony

[Tarka the Duck]

Yes we manifest our fears and doubts first. Thank you, Tony. I would disagree regarding 'nnot being able to do something' about attrocities!! I would greatly appreciate if you could explain a bit about the buhddist concept of 'balance through inactivity'. In another discussion, you insinuated that those of us who were discussing the ET enigma were being 'lofty' and turning a blind eye to rape!!! I would suggest that inactivity is BLINDNESS, and (just like christianity) you have justified a way for you to sit on you hands and do nothing. Tony,,, why dont you get off yer arss and go to Africa, and help these children out? Of course you can!!! There can be no awareness gained by sitting on your hands and watching the world burn around you!!! That is a copout!!

So you advise is to sit lotus style, close my eyes, and pretend nothing bad is happening, and even if there was, i cant do anything about it??????

Yes, thank you, very helpful.



Dear Jake

When reading your post, I was reminded of how we know absolutely nothing of the day-to- day lives and actions of the person whom we are judging, and often base our opinions upon our own blinkered assumptions.

Thanks for the timely reminder.

Kathie

[gooty64]

This pure awareness he-the OP-said something about.

I have this pure awareness for about 30-90 seconds +or- upon awakening from sleep.

Why is it so fleeting? Within just seconds it fades and the story and the personal problems, daily details all emerge to fill the space that just moments before had been so empty and pure.

Is it just me or does anyone else's mind race with trivial junk and endless details and thoughts of the past/future etc?

Time to clean house

[Jake]

I love you dearly, tony. My judjements are regarding the words, not the person.

I engage in,perhaps a different style. I do not apologize.

I do apologize for the derailement of your discussion!!

Tarka,,, there are heroes everywhere...

[Flash]

How about changing from BUT to WHY NOT? or NOW or THX for the idea, let´s make it happen.....?
thx, :clap2:

or changing the but for AND... try it AND see what it gives, I have tried it thousands of times

[Dorjezigzag]

We cannot 'know' everything

do not fear doubt

If we know everything there is nothing left to learn
Be courageous and throw yourself into the unknown

Is life a mystery to be lived or a problem to be solved?

Even the universe is constantly learning and newly experiencing

[Flash]

Another trick is to try the "what if" system - part of reframing

And what if it works? And what if it were different? And what if i would end up liking it?....

We are here getting into the positive usage of NLP

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Dear Friends,

Shortly after his last post above, (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53486-The-effect-of-Doubt.&p=604664&viewfull=1#post604664) Jake asked Paul by private message to unsubscribe him from the forum immediately. Paul did so, assuring him by e-mail that he would be more than welcome to return at any time.

The e-mail bounced. As best I know, we have no way of communicating with him now, and so I very much hope that he will notice and read this post.

Jake was a credit to the forum, and was a great friend of many. He cared deeply about people's personal suffering. New members may not know that he was also a loved and respected member of the moderators team for quite a while.

My view of what has happened is this.


Dear Jake

When reading your post, I was reminded of how we know absolutely nothing of the day-to- day lives and actions of the person whom we are judging, and often base our opinions upon our own blinkered assumptions.

Thanks for the timely reminder.

Kathie

This post by Kathie is covertly hostile, carefully disguised, and was responsible for prompting Jake to leave. It had the effect of a carefully-wielded stiletto that kills but barely leaves a visible entry wound.

Members may be noticing that Tony (pie'n'eal) and Kathie (Tarka the Duck, who is his wife) often operate as a kind of tag team on threads. The way they work issues they have decided to promote is very borderline as far as forum protocols are concerned -- in my opinion. It's close to sockpuppetting each other's posts with an agreed agenda.

This has been clear for a while, and I have drawn the moderators' attention to this. Meanwhile, pie'n'eal is, also in my opinion, arrogant and over-intellectual, knows rather less than he believes he does, and misuses the forum to grandstand as a kind of self-appointed teacher. I feel strongly that the forum has lost out through this silly incident.

[Freed Fox]

Thanks for your input, Mr. Ryan.

I do not wish to fan any flames here, but perhaps now we have seen 'The effect of Certainty'.

If Jake is indeed reading, I would add my voice to yours in encouraging his return. There have been some strange negative energies about recently, which I am ashamed to admit that I contributed to today.

Here's to moving forward with compassion, love, and open-mindedness.

[RunningDeer]

Dear Jake,
I will miss your grounding and supportive energies.
I do hope you will return.
We need folks like you even more so now.

With heart,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer xo
http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/Bryce/2p-1.jpg

[ulli]

Please Jake, do come back. Love you lots and lots.
And your post, Bill...all I can say is thank you.
I've had that stiletto directed at me several times...
each time puzzled by the ferocity with which it was wielded.
All I did was point out some not so wholesome aspects of Buddhism,
which is after all an ancient religion full of ancient traditions and an all male hierarchy.
Dialogue about this was squashed by Tarka each time I tried to open a discussion.

[Deneon]

As a new member here I can't comment on what has happened here, nor do I want to.

After having read Jake's eBook, the prospect of interacting with him on this forum was one of the main reasons for finally registering instead of just reading. His reply to my first post helped me out alot and I am really sad to hear he is gone now.

Add me to the list of people who want to see you return sooner rather than later, Jake.

[RunningDeer]

This is the Jake, I know. He's supportive and caring and loving:

It's from his "Happy New Year (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53457-Happy-New-year-&p=604076&viewfull=1#post604076)" thread.

"Happy Galactic new year! I am grinning from ear to ear!!! I am excited for the next 28,000 years,,, May they be peaceful and prosperous!!! May we all here at Avalon lead the way! Love you all!

Jake..."

[DNA]

Yes we manifest our fears and doubts first. Thank you, Tony. I would disagree regarding 'nnot being able to do something' about attrocities!! I would greatly appreciate if you could explain a bit about the buhddist concept of 'balance through inactivity'. In another discussion, you insinuated that those of us who were discussing the ET enigma were being 'lofty' and turning a blind eye to rape!!! I would suggest that inactivity is BLINDNESS, and (just like christianity) you have justified a way for you to sit on you hands and do nothing. Tony,,, why dont you get off yer arss and go to Africa, and help these children out? Of course you can!!! There can be no awareness gained by sitting on your hands and watching the world burn around you!!! That is a copout!!

So you advise is to sit lotus style, close my eyes, and pretend nothing bad is happening, and even if there was, i cant do anything about it??????

Yes, thank you, very helpful.

I think what Tony is trying to illustrate is the power of prayer. And how doubts about our self worth, our intentions and even who we are praying to impede our ability to bring about change in this manner.

[music]

This is a difficult time. Quite apart from the fact there are some very intense energies right now, there are some of us who are severely let down by the lack of fireworks on the 21st, and some of us who are gloating over the lack of fireworks on the 21st. What we must remember is that nothing else matters but love, and when we relate to each from outside of this sacred space, things may be misconstrued (or not), intentionally (or not), insults may be intended (or not), insults may be taken (or not), etc. This is, and should be, a robust forum because nothing teaches us more than looking at the root of our disagreement with each other, and searching for the common ground of truth. When we disagree without a foot on the home-base of love however, we stray from the realm of growing awareness and become mired in labyrinth of the ego.

Love. It's easy.

[gripreaper]

This is a difficult time. Quite apart from the fact there are some very intense energies right now, there are some of us who are severely let down by the lack of fireworks on the 21st, and some of us who are gloating over the lack of fireworks on the 21st. What we must remember is that nothing else matters but love, and when we relate to each from outside of this sacred space, things may be misconstrued (or not), intentionally (or not), insults may be intended (or not), insults may be taken (or not), etc. This is, and should be, a robust forum because nothing teaches us more than looking at the root of our disagreement with each other, and searching for the common ground of truth. When we disagree without a foot on the home-base of love however, we stray from the realm of growing awareness and become mired in labyrinth of the ego.

Love. It's easy.

An what you will find, is that the Forum, including myself, has been relatively quiet this past week. Speaking for myself, when the energy passing through me is perturbed and is not grounded, I generally keep my mouth shut until it clears up and I have had a chance to transmute that which is bombarding the collective.

When the elite will slaughter our children in broad daylight in a ritualistic fashion, you can bet they are rippling evil through the entire collective, and all of us are affected, whether we like it or not. Until I am able to process this energy, as well as other galactic energies which are in opposition to the elite's attempt to circumvent, there will be no Hitler parodies, or words of wisdom.

Sometimes this is the best action.

[DNA]

Wow, I hadn't gotten any farther than Jake's post when I replied a few minutes ago. I'm certainly not trying to weigh in on the rest of what is going on.


Also, this thread was just called "The Effect of Doubt", there was no mention of the Jake thing until after I posted.

[ThePythonicCow]

Shortly after his last post above, Jake asked Paul by private message to unsubscribe him from the forum immediately. Paul did so, assuring him by e-mail that he would be more than welcome to return at any time.

The e-mail bounced. As best I know, we have no way of communicating with him now, and so I very much hope that he will notice and read this post.

Jake was a credit to the forum, and was a great friend of many. He cared deeply about people's personal suffering. New members may not know that he was also a loved and respected member of the moderators team for quite a while.

Jake - I blew it. I hope you come back soon.

[Calz]

Perhaps a "serenade" with his own talented music would help??? :dance3:

Encore Jake???

:clap2::clap2::clap2:



You guys are ALL my friggin heroes. I have been playing blues guitar for years now. I recorded some tunes and put them on the members music thread,,, but they belong right here in the Blues Thread....


This one is my tribute to Jimi Hendrix, Blues guitar phenom... Since I am a Seattle Native,,, It is perfect...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mat7Z9qPOTg


This one is my slide blues tribute to Robert Johnson... I love the blues, I have a couple of venues where I frequent the 'blues night' open jams.... I can't get enough...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK7tXj3LdHs

[mahalall]

Challenging the inertia of the light of awareness

Admiring your spirit Jake !

YLSCfLp0iXM

[RunningDeer]

Shortly after his last post above, Jake asked Paul by private message to unsubscribe him from the forum immediately. Paul did so, assuring him by e-mail that he would be more than welcome to return at any time.

The e-mail bounced. As best I know, we have no way of communicating with him now, and so I very much hope that he will notice and read this post.

Jake was a credit to the forum, and was a great friend of many. He cared deeply about people's personal suffering. New members may not know that he was also a loved and respected member of the moderators team for quite a while.

Jake - I blew it. I hope you come back soon.


Jake - I blew it. I hope you come back soon.

Well this is the first time, I'd have to disagree with you, Paul. The way I see it, you respected Jake's wishes. Not much else you could do.

I sprinkled some fairy dust on my remote viewer machine and cranked it up. I see Jake's return in this time line.

:wave: to :cow:

[Gardener]

"Use the force Jake, use the force."

[Fred Steeves]

A simple question here: How are Tony and Kathie any more responsible for Jake's retirement, than Another Bob is for ROMANKT's retirement? As much as I like and respect Jake, had he no responsibility for his choice?

[westhill]

Jake...
If you have the heart to play the blues like you do (I'm from Chicago), then you have more than enough heart
to please see past this moment. I've been reading all the posts of those who will miss you. They really mean it,
come back!

[ThePythonicCow]

Well this is the first time, I'd have to disagree with you, Paul. The way I see it, you respected Jake's wishes. Not much else you could do.
I could have first let Jake know that I hoped he'd stay, and asked what was happening.

I like the view from your remote viewer.

:) :cow: :)

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Speaking for myself, when the energy passing through me is perturbed and is not grounded, I generally keep my mouth shut until it clears up and I have had a chance to transmute that which is bombarding the collective.


Ha. Wish I could say the same. But then I'd never get to speak.

Jake, I do hope you will return. Yes, Avalon can be frustrating. I've nearly stormed out several times myself. But your voice is needed here. Please reconsider.

[RunningDeer]

A simple question here: How are Tony and Kathie any more responsible for Jake's retirement, than Another Bob is for ROMANKT's retirement? As much as I like and respect Jake, had he no responsibility for his choice?

Hi Fred,

ROMANKT, too? I had no idea... Damn, crazy energies. Full disclosure? I've been fighting to not hit the "I'm outta here button." I DO NOT share this for any reason but to demonstrate the crazy energies. My style is to leave quickly and quietly. I've reached that point several times in the last 4-5 weeks. I step back and regroup.


Jake, had he no responsibility for his choice?
I'm thinking this is just rhetorical? Forum communication is a challenge when voice and visual cues aren't there. They are more important to me than the words themselves. Huh? I rely more on them.

Peace,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer :wave:

[RunningDeer]

Well this is the first time, I'd have to disagree with you, Paul. The way I see it, you respected Jake's wishes. Not much else you could do.
I could have first let Jake know that I hoped he'd stay, and asked what was happening.

I like the view from your remote viewer.

:) :cow: :)


I hoped he'd stay, and asked what was happening.

That's a good idea for the next time. We don't know these things until they come up.

Going out on a limb and will quickly push the reply button before I chicken out. I keep getting the numbers 3 or 4. I want to say days, but to cover my a$$ 3 or 4 might mean weeks, that way people will have forgotten this embarrassing display of amateur trainee of the "Dionne Warwick for the Psychic Friends Network".

:wave: to :cow:

And Jake if you are listening....

OMG I just jumped over to the "Happy New Year!" thread. Is Jake back? His avatar is up? Or did you open the door a bit so he can sneak in the back when he's ready?

[ThePythonicCow]

OMG I just jumped over to the "Happy New Year!" thread. Is Jakie back? His icon is up? Or did you open the door a bit so he can sneak in the back when he's ready?
You guys are quick :).

I opened the door so he could get back in easily.

We're still scanning the horizon, waiting for our smoke signals to be returned.

[Youniverse]

This is a difficult time. Quite apart from the fact there are some very intense energies right now, there are some of us who are severely let down by the lack of fireworks on the 21st, and some of us who are gloating over the lack of fireworks on the 21st. What we must remember is that nothing else matters but love, and when we relate to each from outside of this sacred space, things may be misconstrued (or not), intentionally (or not), insults may be intended (or not), insults may be taken (or not), etc. This is, and should be, a robust forum because nothing teaches us more than looking at the root of our disagreement with each other, and searching for the common ground of truth. When we disagree without a foot on the home-base of love however, we stray from the realm of growing awareness and become mired in labyrinth of the ego.

Love. It's easy.

An what you will find, is that the Forum, including myself, has been relatively quiet this past week. Speaking for myself, when the energy passing through me is perturbed and is not grounded, I generally keep my mouth shut until it clears up and I have had a chance to transmute that which is bombarding the collective.

When the elite will slaughter our children in broad daylight in a ritualistic fashion, you can bet they are rippling evil through the entire collective, and all of us are affected, whether we like it or not. Until I am able to process this energy, as well as other galactic energies which are in opposition to the elite's attempt to circumvent, there will be no Hitler parodies, or words of wisdom.

Sometimes this is the best action.

Forgive my missing something here. I was just wondering, in all sincereity, what your sources of evidence are for the so-called elite's ritualistic slaughter of those children at Sandy Hook. As a father of a six year old son I take such aleegations quite seriously.

[RunningDeer]

OMG I just jumped over to the "Happy New Year!" thread. Is Jakie back? His icon is up? Or did you open the door a bit so he can sneak in the back when he's ready?
You guys are quick :).

I opened the door so he could get back in easily.

We're still scanning the horizon, waiting for our smoke signals to be returned.

http://www.pic4ever.com/images/computer3.gif You All are such nice :cow:S.

[ThePythonicCow]

A simple question here: How are Tony and Kathie any more responsible for Jake's retirement, than Another Bob is for ROMANKT's retirement? As much as I like and respect Jake, had he no responsibility for his choice?

Could you report these post(s) for us that evidence your concerns involving ROMANWKT and another bob?

Responsibility is not simply theirs or ours. We each do what we can.

[SKAWF]

thats the thing with internet communications...

its so easy to react to whats said....
which is odd really, because in relation to verbal communication,
we only really get a narrow view whats being said when we read the words people write.

someone suggested once that its wise to give it 24 hours,
if you still feel the same way after that time has passed.... respond.

but to loosely echo what was said earlier....

i'm suprised that someone would leave a high value place
just because of someone elses words.

it places a lot of control in someone elses hands.

balance will no doubt be restored at some point.

[Youniverse]

You know, as a fairly new member on Avalon, one of the main things that attracted me to it was the opportunity to hear a variety of perspectives in a respectable manner. Something that is lacking in many other online forums. If we can't heard differences of opinion on a forum such as this, and maintain respect for each other, than where else is it going to happen? I don't personally know Jake and don't recall any interactions with him(though I probably had some), but I definately would always welcome him back. At the same time, I do recall several of the contributions Tony has made and as far as I've seen, he's made some valuable ones. Whether Tony is arrogant or whatever, I don't know and that's not for me to judge. I'm also wondering if there's a considerable degree of taking sides or favouritism going on within Avalon?

[RunningDeer]

This is a difficult time. Quite apart from the fact there are some very intense energies right now, there are some of us who are severely let down by the lack of fireworks on the 21st, and some of us who are gloating over the lack of fireworks on the 21st. What we must remember is that nothing else matters but love, and when we relate to each from outside of this sacred space, things may be misconstrued (or not), intentionally (or not), insults may be intended (or not), insults may be taken (or not), etc. This is, and should be, a robust forum because nothing teaches us more than looking at the root of our disagreement with each other, and searching for the common ground of truth. When we disagree without a foot on the home-base of love however, we stray from the realm of growing awareness and become mired in labyrinth of the ego.

Love. It's easy.

An what you will find, is that the Forum, including myself, has been relatively quiet this past week. Speaking for myself, when the energy passing through me is perturbed and is not grounded, I generally keep my mouth shut until it clears up and I have had a chance to transmute that which is bombarding the collective.

When the elite will slaughter our children in broad daylight in a ritualistic fashion, you can bet they are rippling evil through the entire collective, and all of us are affected, whether we like it or not. Until I am able to process this energy, as well as other galactic energies which are in opposition to the elite's attempt to circumvent, there will be no Hitler parodies, or words of wisdom.

Sometimes this is the best action.

Forgive my missing something here. I was just wondering, in all sincereity, what your sources of evidence are for the so-called elite's ritualistic slaughter of those children at Sandy Hook. As a father of a six year old son I take such aleegations quite seriously.

Hello Youniverse,

While you wait for a response, this thread may help: The Sandy Hook Newtown Massacre…the MAJOR DISCREPANCIES LIST (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53271-The-Sandy-Hook-Newtown-Massacre--the-MAJOR-DISCREPANCIES-LIST&p=604888&highlight=Sandy+Hook#post604888)

[Dennis Leahy]

Jake is not going anywhere, dammit! Over my out-of-body soul!

Jake, have you ever driven in LA or Chicago or Atlanta rush hour traffic? There are the aggressive, nasty drivers and the drivers that amazingly stay calm and cool, and give you a smile and let you merge into their lane ahead of them. Avalon is like that. Some are easy to travel with; some are a pain. Hey, if all the good guys take the off ramps, who will be left on the highway?

Dennis

[gooty64]

Jake gets hurt by someone he loves and asks to be unsuscribed.....

[Freed Fox]

You know, as a fairly new member on Avalon, one of the main things that attracted me to it was the opportunity to hear a variety of perspectives in a respectable manner. Something that is lacking in many other online forums. If we can't heard differences of opinion on a forum such as this, and maintain respect for each other, than where else is it going to happen? I don't personally know Jake and don't recall any interactions with him(though I probably had some), but I definately would always welcome him back. At the same time, I do recall several of the contributions Tony has made and as far as I've seen, he's made some valuable ones. Whether Tony is arrogant or whatever, I don't know and that's not for me to judge. I'm also wondering if there's a considerable degree of taking sides or favouritism going on within Avalon?

I can only speak for myself, but in terms of what I've said regarding this issue, it was only meant to be in emotional/moral support of Jake. I do not mean to attack or insult pie'n'eal or anyone else in any way, nor take sides necessarily.

I'm even newer here than you and am quite certain I haven't had any (direct) interactions with him. I have however read several of his posts, and he seemed to be nothing but respectful and kind. To me, that made his sudden resignation even more of a red flag... As Fred correctly stated, it's ultimately his decision and responsibility, but I still felt compelled to speak in his support to perhaps in some small way alleviate whatever hurt or offense he may have suffered. It is both that and a larger desire to be a generally positive and supportive member of this community, whose diversity and compassion are already evident to me and highly valued.

I should also take this time to say that I have absolutely nothing against pie'n'eal, Tarka, or any other parties involved here. Again, I can only speak for myself, but I don't think the people here want to drive anyone away.

[RunningDeer]

thats the thing with internet communications...

its so easy to react to whats said....
which is odd really, because in relation to verbal communication,
we only really get a narrow view whats being said when we read the words people write.

someone suggested once that its wise to give it 24 hours,
if you still feel the same way after that time has passed.... respond.

but to loosely echo what was said earlier....

i'm suprised that someone would leave a high value place
just because of someone elses words.

it places a lot of control in someone elses hands.

balance will no doubt be restored at some point.


i'm suprised that someone would leave a high value place
just because of someone elses words.

it places a lot of control in someone elses hands.

Warning: judgement laced post

Hello SKAWF,

Sometimes there are sh!tbirds. And sometimes if I hit too many sh!tbirds in a row (2 is too many), it gets old really, really fast.

For me, it's mostly the words used against others that hurt. And the ones with tones of superiority or patronizing, I just skip them. In fact, it's getting to the point when I try to re-read many of them, I cannot remember what I read. I believe has to do with the lack of integrity behind the message.

I do every once in a while check back. Sometimes, the person was having a bad spell or maybe they've grown over time. I'm in agreement with you about don't post in anger. Create time-space.

Thanks for the opportunity to unload... Burp.
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

[gripreaper]

Hey, if all the good guys take the off ramps, who will be left on the highway? Dennis

I shriek to think about that.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pT0NyXZjB4

[Selene]

Well, Jake, my brother ~

We've all been there. Munching on that last straw and pushed beyond our last pushbutton. Yes.

Time for a walk outside in the fresh air, a swoop through the stars and a deep breath of normalcy. Take your time.

We're all crazy here: that's why we're here. We need to do this, simply because no one else can.

And no one can replace you here. Each Avalonian is unique and precious - and you are Jake. We need you here, as we need us all. The work of Avalon is much larger than any of us as individuals or personalities; I know that you know that. And that your place is therefore irreplaceable.

Come back when you are ready. Your friends are here.

Regards,

Selene

[RunningDeer]

A simple question here: How are Tony and Kathie any more responsible for Jake's retirement, than Another Bob is for ROMANKT's retirement? As much as I like and respect Jake, had he no responsibility for his choice?

Could you report these post(s) for us that evidence your concerns involving ROMANWKT and another bob?

Responsibility is not simply theirs or ours. We each do what we can.

ROMANWKT says good bye (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53428-Greetings-&p=604279&viewfull=1#post604279) in his post on "Greetings" thread. "I am for once left speechless, and I leave you all at that, goodbye."

[Flash]

I am sometimes quite naive it seems and had not noticed that Pin'eal and Tarta were a couple nor that they were working in tandem on some threads. I did find some threads of Pin'eal quite good and i do think we could lose a good member here, although I must tell that if the tandem working is true, I am really disappointed. This would show a rather non spiritual behavior imo. As for the arrogance like attitude sometimes, believe it or not, I was attributing it to the British style that sometimes appears like that to us, North American (French of France as well can have this kind of attitude at times). This did not mean, in my idea, true arrogance.

On the other hand, I do appreciate Jake's inputs as well. I am truly sorry that he is gone and would very much like to see him back.

This is very sad that differences in opinion or lifestyle cannot be worked out or simply acknowledged in a respectful manner without getting into snipy comments.

Finally, nobody wake up in the morning saying "today I will do my worst". Most of us are quite well intentioned when we start in the morning. May be that here, forgiveness could be used advantageously for all.

Edit: I can't believe that Roman has left either. I truly liked his input too. This is sad.

[SKAWF]

Warning: judgement laced post

Hello SKAWF,

Sometimes there are sh!tbirds. And sometimes if I hit too many sh!tbirds in a row (2 is too many), it gets old really, really fast.

For me, it's mostly the words used against others that hurt. And the ones with tones of superiority or patronizing, I just skip them. In fact, it's getting to the point when I try to re-read many of them, I cannot remember what I read. I believe has to do with the lack of integrity behind the message.

I do every once in a while check back. Sometimes, the person was having a bad spell or maybe they've grown over time. I'm in agreement with you about don't post in anger. Create time-space.

Thanks for the opportunity to unload... Burp.
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

Hi WCBD

ive encountered a few people like that as well.

ive been confrontational here. i'm no angel!,
but i dont like it.
i like being balanced and giving things lots of consideration.
making sure that the words i write, and the flow of the message is the best i can make it. (not in every post i admit)
i dont attack people, well, i dont strike the first blow.
nor do i talk down to, demean or patronise people.

but if people are like that with me,
i make sure that they get a comprehensive and methodological response.

in my eyes, everyone is equal, and i treat people how i would like to be treated,

ive done 'nasty'. it makes me feel bad inside.
but it doesnt bother some people.
they seem to think its normal conduct.

but i wouldnt allow myself to be diverted off my own path,
because the actions of someone else.

to me, that is a cardinal sin against self.
one could bring about the wrath of the universe by allowing that to happen.

which in a much much broader sense, is exactly what the elites have done to ALL OF US..

anyway, i'm rabbiting now.

cheers

steve

[GarethBKK]

Best not to have opinions. Better to trust one's higher self to know truth. Rants, especially personal ones, say more about the subject than the object. But, I do not judge either.

[Tarka the Duck]

Dear members

Firstly, I need to say that I have not read this entire thread because I think the contents would stick in my mind for too long, but I've been told what has been said on here – and to be honest, I'm devastated. To be personally attacked in this way is really hurtful, and I don't quite know how to deal with it.

If I have ever upset, or disrespected, or demeaned, or disregarded, or been rude to anyone, I apologise unreservedly.

I behave on the forum in the same way that I behave in life. I don't play a part, or have a “game plan” or write anything I don't mean: I'm just me, and if that is not acceptable, then I'd rather be unsubscribed here and now.

Kathie

[Hermite]

Kathie, you have always been nice and friendly to me, as has Tony. I don't always completely understand what he writes, but I always read because he gives me much to think about, or not think, if you will. I'd hate to see either of you leave.

I don't want Jake to leave, either. He has a wonderful presence and attitude.

All are needed here, despite little differences of opinion. And, FFS, it's Christmas! Peace on earth, goodwill to all! Hello??

Everyone, please, take a deep breath, smile and hug yourself. Then let's move on from this bump in the road.

[Fred Steeves]

Kathie, I just want you to know that I have nothing but love and respect for you and Tony. We don't always see eye to eye on things, but through discussing/debating them over time I think we have learned much from each other.

Please stick around, as this too shall pass. http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/smile.gif

Much love to you both!
Fred

[greybeard]

I thought everyone knew Tony and Tarka (Kathie) are Mr and Mrs.-- They never made a secret of it and of course they are both on the same path so it is normal that they would support each other on most things.
Their path is different from mine but the end result of paths tends to be the same.
I dont see Tony as a teacher more sharing what he believes to be so.
Hopefully this will blow over and Jake will be back also.

Respectfully Chris

[Bill Ryan]

A simple question here: How are Tony and Kathie any more responsible for Jake's retirement, than Another Bob is for ROMANKT's retirement? As much as I like and respect Jake, had he no responsibility for his choice?

If someone s punched on the nose without justification, the person who's been injured is responsible for their feelings. But so is the person who punched them. This doesn't mean that punching someone is okay.

Importantly, I wasn't at all aware of what happened with ROMANKT and Another Bob. Mods inevitably miss things sometimes (there are a lot of threads, and a lot of posts!). They can't possibly be everywhere at all times. It was entirely by chance that I caught this incident myself -- only after Paul had reported to the other mods, behind the scenes, that Jake had asked to leave.

We very much appreciate it when members report something that seems that it may not be okay, using the little triangular icon abut an inch to the right of the Thanks button. All reported posts are looked at by one or more of the mods within hours or less.

Reported posts are not necessarily acknowledged to the member who's reported them, but every one is looked at and sometimes discussed extensively. The way it works is that a new behind-the-scenes thread is automatically generated which is brought to the mods' attention on their own private New Posts and New Threads pages. Sometimes the ensuing discussion between the mods extends for over 40 posts, and several days. We're blessed to have a team who takes their duty of care of the forum very seriously, and this is one of the cornerstones of the forum's very high quality that we all appreciate. The system works extremely well.

[ThePythonicCow]

We very much appreciate it when members report something that seems that it may not be okay, using the little triangular icon
The triangular icon for Reporting Posts (and Private Messages) looks like this: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/buttons/report-40b.png.

Yes, reporting posts, for whatever reason, helps us know where to take a look, or perhaps a second look at something we missed.

One can even report one's own posts, if one is just looking for a little technical help.

One can report Private Messages that we should take a look at (we're not going to know about them otherwise.)

[Fred Steeves]

A simple question here: How are Tony and Kathie any more responsible for Jake's retirement, than Another Bob is for ROMANKT's retirement? As much as I like and respect Jake, had he no responsibility for his choice?

If someone s punched on the nose without justification, the person who's been injured is responsible for their feelings. But so is the person who punched them. This doesn't mean that punching someone is okay.

Importantly, I wasn't at all aware of what happened with ROMANKT and Another Bob. Mods inevitably miss things sometimes (there are a lot of threads, and a lot of posts!). They can't possibly be everywhere at all times. It was entirely by chance that I caught this incident myself -- only after Paul had reported to the other mods, behind the scenes, that Jake had asked to leave.

We very much appreciate it when members report something that seems that it may not be okay, using the little triangular icon abut an inch to the right of the Thanks button. All reported posts are looked at by one or more of the mods within hours or less.

Reported posts are not necessarily acknowledged to the member who's reported them, but every one is looked at and sometimes discussed extensively. The way it works is that a new behind-the-scenes thread is automatically generated which is brought to the mods' attention on their own private New Posts and New Threads pages. Sometimes the ensuing discussion between the mods extends for over 40 posts, and several days. We're blessed to have a team who takes their duty of care of the forum very seriously, and this is one of the cornerstones of the forum's very high quality that we all appreciate. The system works extremely well.

Hi Bill, perhaps I was just being too subtle there. A major drawback of the printed word. Paul had the same misunderstanding, and I take responsibility for that. I never saw a problem with what Another Bob said, other than being rather silly IMO. What I saw was Roman over reacting to basically nothing, and leaving. I was simply trying to make a comparison to that, and what happened here.

I know that you have a problem with Tony, and that's fine. I don't, and that should be fine too. But personally I see that as a completely different subject from Jake up and leaving. I'm sorry to see Jake go too, and I hope he comes back soon, but Jake is also a big boy and should be treated as such. No one can make a man do what he doesn't want to do, especially with just words on an internet forum. To cast blame on Tony and Kathie for Jake's decision I believe is a disservice to all three of them.

Hopefully Bill you know me well enough by now that I'm not trying to stir anything up here, just callin em like I see em brother. If you come to see my opinions beginning to disturb the equilibrium of the forum, just say the word and I will politely bow out of this conversation.

Cheers,
Fred

[Christine]

Dear Avalonians,

I have been absent lately on the forum. My duties in the material world have kept me so occupied that I haven’t dared even read the threads knowing how I would get pulled into the mix – thereby feeling the responsibility to respond thoughtfully and thoroughly.

I agree with Selene when she says.
We're all crazy here: that's why we're here. We need to do this, simply because no one else can.

And no one can replace you here. Each Avalonian is unique and precious - and you are Jake. We need you here, as we need us all. The work of Avalon is much larger than any of us as individuals or personalities; I know that you know that. And that your place is therefore irreplaceable.

So now this difference between Tony, Kathie and Jake throws a wrench in the works and an interruption in the dialog. I myself do have something to say and it is time to say it.

We are not dealing in absolute truths in this dimension, we are dealing in a world of perceptions and interpretations. This IS the value of a forum like Avalon, a space where we can express these perceptions respectfully, safely and openly without fear that we will be undermined or made wrong. AND where we are open enough inside ourselves to admit, see and correct our own orientation. Sometimes we so vehemently promote our perception or point of view that we don’t realize that we have lost openness or acceptance.

Those on the forum who have the talent to form words and wield strong statements have a great responsibility. Sometimes they build structures that actually don’t tolerate differing opinions. These in my opinion can be perilous and not life supporting.

We have moved into a new paradigm and it is inclusive not exclusive and it is the very thing that the negativity that proliferates on our planet is trying so hard to detain. But it can’t be detained. It is a self creating structure of life. Some see it as the Flower of Life… we are each points of light within this structure, connected to each other and it is because of this that we are learning to open and are able to perceive “wholly”. When we try and remove another from that “wholeness” because they are either angry, mistaken, antagonistic or hostile we do not see ourselves wholly.

These things to do happen though, anger does occur, repression does occur and hostile acts either covert or overt do take place. It is how we manage them that counts now, that is the test we have brought into this space.

I have been honored to be in the company of the finest people here on Avalon. I give testimony to the care, the time and the dedication of the mods and of Bill Ryan. I do believe we always have the opportunity to make the best choice if we stand silent and look and see what is going on beneath the surface. This is not always easy to achieve, especially when “hard truths” buttons are being pushed.

Choice is always present, we can choose. Tony and Kathie can use this time to reflect, to question themselves (always a good practice). Jake can choose to come back (we don’t really know his motivation to leave because he didn’t tell us). I know that the mods and Bill and questioning the best way to handle these situations. (Not an easy task). We all can use this opportunity for compassion, understanding and self healing.

We can choose to be the best we can be, to not allow the dark tide to swallow us into derision and further division. We are by our choice part of Avalon and by choice here. This is our microcosm, a place to know ourselves.

I honor the Light within each and everyone of us as I honor the Light within myself. WE are the Light of the World. Peace and Blessings to all.

Christine

[Curt]

Tony is a good egg. So is Jake.

:smash: Communication in cyberspace is a rough deal sometimes and people get it wrong. I know I have.

Much love and respect to both these guys.

[Chester]

The effect of Doubt.

The cell door is open: there is corridor with a door at the end
open to the light and we can leave and be free at any time...and yet we doubt.
We are so familiar with our cell that we have locked 'ourselves' in.

All we have to do is look, see, drop, be free. (“see” means be aware.)

Everything is a mere appearance is our awareness-mirror.
The words and images on this screen are also merely appearances.
What is important is the awareness of these images - dropping any comment....now!

There you are. 'You' is a description of a unique awareness.

Don't doubt that awareness.
That uncontaminated awareness, is pure you.

There appear to be 'things' happening out there,
but none of it affects this pure uncontaminated awareness.

We may read on the screen that low caste women in Delhi and children in
parts of South Africa are raped because of beliefs, but, horrific as that is,
it does not change the awareness. Unless we are go to India to do something
about it, it is still an appearance in the mind, to which we react.
Remember: there is always something to react to!

Yes, we want to do something about it, but find we cannot.
All we can do is be aware.
This may make us feel guilty, but that is only the mind consciousness
playing with the appearance, which we do all the time.
All we can actually do is be aware that we are not 'raping' others' minds.

You Know, but the thinking mind wants to know something.
That is precisely what keeps us in the cell.
We play with our ideas, we play with predictions, we play with anything we direct
our consciousness to.
This involvement creates doubt about our true being, because we are always distracted.
Doubt means not being sure, and lacking confidence.
That is the prison.

Not doubting is to do with intuition – the inner teacher.
The inner teacher is not our thinking mind: that is just the chatter box!

Even when we look, see, drop, the chattering will still go on like a self winding radio.
But the chattering is only a residue from the past programmes,
which we tune into and get distracted.

All we have to do is be aware and recognise.
So there is no actual doing involved!

It is so simple, so don't doubt.
Doubt is just a habit.

Be aware that there are people playing with our minds,
creating doubt and distracting us with entertainment (even on forums!),
to which we react.
Can you hear the key in the lock?

Don't believe anything, but trust pure, uncontaminated awareness.
This does not mean fear everything - they are mere appearances.
Of course, we want to do something about all this suffering,
but we can only do what we can do.
Sometimes we just do not have enough data..so again we can only do what we can do.

If we feel we are the body, we will have body awareness
If we think we are the mind, we will have mind awareness.
If we know we are pure awareness, we will be pure awareness awareness.

These words are not the experience of awareness.
'Your' awareness is the experience.

This pure awareness is not sterile.
It is full of love and compassion.

In merely being aware - in recognising pure awareness - we find 'ourselves' outside,
free and in the clear light.






All the best for the new year,:rapture:
Tony

I always wanted to gain the most advanced wisdom.

I traveled through lifetimes to meet the Masters of the masters.

I found many sitting atop mountains enjoying the incredible view and content with their experience sans the teaming life that crawled through the cracks seen below - cracks which in some cases led to hell itself.

And I asked them what could they say they have taken away having acquired all this vast wisdom.

And none could (nor maybe would) ever answer me.

So I hung out with them hoping to discover the core truths they had found.

Instead what I discovered was perhaps the loneliest beings one could ever meet.

I thanked them for sharing their wisdom and grabbed a set of skis and descended the mountain.

As I slid lower and lower, the cracks transformed to city streets... the ants became people and I began to regret leaving the mountain top.

But I could never shake that ultimate knowing that it all and always ends up lonely.

So I had to make a choice - Become a plaque on the walls of the halls of the mountain kings or jump into the rabid waters of real life, real world life... full of its triumphs and glories, full of its tragedies and horrors, full of its mystery.

Today I choose FULL LIFE and care not what happens to "me" as what is real of me... that which is behind the awareness will always be and hopefully never be lonely.

[OOO]

I personally enjoy Tonys and Kathies contributions. They are playful and introspective.

I view them as separate entities who like everyone else are bouncing off ideas and learning.

But, wow, some of the comments in this thread are incredibly hypocritical.

[Chester]

Yes we manifest our fears and doubts first. Thank you, Tony. I would disagree regarding 'nnot being able to do something' about attrocities!! I would greatly appreciate if you could explain a bit about the buhddist concept of 'balance through inactivity'. In another discussion, you insinuated that those of us who were discussing the ET enigma were being 'lofty' and turning a blind eye to rape!!! I would suggest that inactivity is BLINDNESS, and (just like christianity) you have justified a way for you to sit on you hands and do nothing. Tony,,, why dont you get off yer arss and go to Africa, and help these children out? Of course you can!!! There can be no awareness gained by sitting on your hands and watching the world burn around you!!! That is a copout!!

So you advise is to sit lotus style, close my eyes, and pretend nothing bad is happening, and even if there was, i cant do anything about it??????

Yes, thank you, very helpful.





Ah, I see you are choosing to misunderstand again Jake.
There is a relative reality, which is the temporary comings and goings in the world,
and there is absolute reality, our never changing essence,

If one muddles them up in a topic one will get confused.



All the best,
Tony

YEP - There is both... You have always granted that, Tony... I will add (this coming from my relative and subjective view), you appear to emphasize the absolute all but absolutely all the time and so a casual reader might miss the few times you have granted that, Yes, there is both and I think this is what has gotten a few around here wound up.

Anyways - just had to add my 2 cents and damn it, Jake - please, come back... there's no big reason not to and a ton of folks here don't want you to leave, and I am justone of them.

[Billy]

Oh deary me. What to express so that people do not get upset. What to say to make everything alright again. This is my first thoughts.

Being over sensitive can show a caring side in a person, But it can have a very negative effect, as it can allow one to be emotionally attached to what others express. Even when not directed at one personally.

I believe this has been a great lesson all through the history of Avalon, I also believe that many Avalonians have risen to this great challenge and have overcome being emotionally attached towards others. Retaining respect without judgement towards others.

This forum has managed to achieve something that is a great blessing and a lesson for all humanity.

I do not know Tony, Turka or Jake that well. But i do know that they all understand that Love is the only answer. And that is all i need to know. Each expresses that love differently. Hallelujah for being an individual soul within this physical experience.

Emotional non attachment i would say is the important lesson here.

Christine expresses very well here.


Dear Avalonians,


Choice is always present, we can choose. Tony and Kathie can use this time to reflect, to question themselves (always a good practice). Jake can choose to come back (we don’t really know his motivation to leave because he didn’t tell us). I know that the mods and Bill and questioning the best way to handle these situations. (Not an easy task). We all can use this opportunity for compassion, understanding and self healing.

We can choose to be the best we can be, to not allow the dark tide to swallow us into derision and further division. We are by our choice part of Avalon and by choice here. This is our microcosm, a place to know ourselves.

I honor the Light within each and everyone of us as I honor the Light within myself. WE are the Light of the World. Peace and Blessings to all.

Christine

Peace be with everyone.

EDIT:
I posted this comment earlier today in another thread. I think it fits here also.




The 24 Gurus of Dattatreya http://www.hindu-blog.com/2009/12/guru-sri-dattatreya-teachings-twenty.html

Dattatreya: I have 24 gurus.

King: Twenty-four gurus at such a tender age? Who are they?

Dattatreya: Mother earth is my first guru. She taught me to hold those who trample me, scratch me, and hurt me lovingly in my heart, just as she does. She taught me to give them my best, remembering that their acts are normal and natural from their standpoint.

peace

[RunningDeer]

Dear members

Firstly, I need to say that I have not read this entire thread because I think the contents would stick in my mind for too long, but I've been told what has been said on here – and to be honest, I'm devastated. To be personally attacked in this way is really hurtful, and I don't quite know how to deal with it.

If I have ever upset, or disrespected, or demeaned, or disregarded, or been rude to anyone, I apologise unreservedly.

I behave on the forum in the same way that I behave in life. I don't play a part, or have a “game plan” or write anything I don't mean: I'm just me, and if that is not acceptable, then I'd rather be unsubscribed here and now.

Kathie

Hello Kathie,

I don't know enough about the Buddhist Way, but one of my masters degrees is in Human Relations (this is a tacky comment). I didn't need to be an awakened being to experience how you chose to communicate.

I was accepted to Project Avalon on February 6, 2011 (correction 2012). It is the only forum I’ve participated on. This was the exchange with you on February 19, 2011 (correction 2012), not two weeks into my stay. I had no idea that there were themes to threads. And in my mind Tony had a funny video (see below) to make his point as well. I also didn’t know you were, husband and wife.

Post #21 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40490-Exaggerating-feelings&p=431435&viewfull=1#post431435)




"Stuff, Stuff and More Stuff"


Hi, my name is Paula, and I’m a collector-holic. I’m coming clean. Before the invention of eBooks, I was a collector of the paper kind. Piles of them. I found that eBooks is not the true solution either, but I'll leave that discussion for another time.

How about you? Is your stuff beginning to feel more like anchors? No, I’m not going to suggest that you lighten your load. Heck, you can even have some of my stuff, if it makes you feel more secure. Because that’s what I want for you. Security means opportunity to feel the freedom and joy. And that my friend helps you, and me and everyone else.

These were some of the questions I had to ask my self. So I pass this list on to you so you can have one more thing to collect. Have you in the past or recently:

-purchase a larger home/apartment to store your stuff?
-taken on monthly payments for off site storage for your stuff?
-added a new addition on your home for your stuff?
-purchased a carport kit garage because there’s no room in your two car garage?
-purchased a stand alone building for your property?
-hired someone to build an stand alone building for your property?
-attached a mother-in-law apartment to your home, but don't have a mother-in-law?
-bribed your kids with Xbox 360 and iPhones to share a room in exchange to free up a room for your stuff?
-own a moldy box collection filled with things you have no idea because the magic marker has faded?
-rubric-cube configuration of boxes stacked with middle boxes of stuff getting the silent treatment?
-petrified mice entombed because they failed the cardboard maze of stuff?
-or how about a missing child or pet?

Lastly, if you find you have a line item budget that includes yearly moving expenses, or security deposit for first month and last month rent, or boxes chasing you in your dreams, it might be time for a green bag party. I use green so I can’t see what’s made it in. And the second rule don’t look in the bag. Be brave, tie it up. 

Stuff need not become anchors. If stuff provides basic comforts that free you up to become a balanced being then stuff serves it’s purpose. Stuff can be a material tool to get your from Point A to Point B.  Please, don’t forget that your heart holds more than you think. Picture, memories, loved one they are all there for the asking.


Hello Paula

I have to ask...is this on the right thread?! Without wishing to appear rude, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about!!
I've been following this thread, and can't see how this fits in at all...could you please explain what you are trying to say a little more clearly?
Thanks

Kathie

With all the grace I could muster, I tried to answer your question; all while, red faced, heart pounding and holding my breath, asking myself WTF are you here, Paula? I reminded myself of a major synchronicity that led me here; that and a continued promise to myself to act on those feelings.
Post #22 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40490-Exaggerating-feelings&p=431445&viewfull=1#post431445)





"Stuff, Stuff and More Stuff"




Hello Paula

I have to ask...is this on the right thread?! Without wishing to appear rude, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about!!
I've been following this thread, and can't see how this fits in at all...could you please explain what you are trying to say a little more clearly?
Thanks

Kathie
My take on “exaggerated feeling” comes from a place of needing to be filled because of emptiness of self. Sometimes, people fill themselves up with the material things rather than to clear their space and open to whom they are without the physical identifiers how many, how much, how often. Just simply be. Part of becoming Enlightened is to know what is truly need in this 3D human experience.

And also, what’s most important is held in the heart. All material successes and toys and things, pales in comparison. Simply be, simply heart.

If this doesn’t fit the thread, I’d have no problem removing it.

You didn’t let up.

Post # 23 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40490-Exaggerating-feelings&p=431456&viewfull=1#post431456)


@Whitecrowblackdeer


My take on “exaggerated feeling” comes from a place of needing to be filled because of emptiness of self. Sometimes, people fill themselves up with the material things rather than to clear their space and open to whom they are without the physical identifiers how many, how much, how often. Just simply be.

And also, what’s most important is held in the heart. All material successes and toys and things, pales in comparison.

If this doesn’t fit the thread, I’d have no problem removing it.

I wondered, as I read your thread, who you were talking to. There seemed such an emphasis on the acquisition of material "wealth", and I wasn't sure whether you were using this as a metaphor or not.

The size of someone's house, and advice about how to get rid of our accumulated junk…are you being literal here?

But this thread is all about inner work, which is very subtle. About how easy it is to get carried away with exaggerations of our knowledge, our abilities, our ineptitude… Can't quite see how the "collector-holic" theme fits in :o

Apologies if this is a finely-honed analogy that I am missing completely!

Whereas Tony’s post fit perfectly in my estimation.

Post #4 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40490-Exaggerating-feelings&p=425716&viewfull=1#post425716)


This episode is about Class and status, 11 minutes into the video, Manuel is told to 'throw it away!"


6lWJwgpOjpA

Each time, I took the high road. You didn’t let up. It did feel like your words didn’t match the subtle tone. But I understood that if I called you on it, there'd be another question that was a not-so-subtle-statement in disguise.

I waited a little longer because I couldn’t live with myself if I ‘ran away’. Then, I unsubscribed. I used that time to learn about how to get around threads and saw that not everyone used the same communication style. I’d want to post on Tony’s threads, but I saw that you were there. As mentioned above, I didn’t know you were together. Which shouldn’t make any difference. It just wasn't worth the hassle.

You have a lot of wise points to offer. I've returned to your posts with an open mind, but the same questioning techniques were used on others. It was hard to watch another go through it. Admittedly, I recognized my projection from those earlier exchanges. I'll continue to read what you have to share. You've assist my growth in seen and unseen ways. For that I thank you, Kathie.

Respectfully submitted,
Paula

[zebowho]

Most of you don't know me, I rarely post but have seen a lot come and go since AV1. At times like these I see the same situation cause turmoil and its sad. There are good members here that offer quite good "insights" that one can take or leave or adapt to one's own belief system. The hard part is there is real power in the printed word and without visual/verbal inflection, that power is Raw and very easily misunderstood. I personally have found some of the words of Jake, Pie & Tarka to be invaluable while others I have just left alone (no need to debate since its pointless to debate someone else's "opinion"...its theirs not mine)! Now if someone seems condescending, that tone is theirs alone, sure some will get stung by it but rather than react, leave that energy for the person from whom it was issued. We might even see that "condescending tone" wasn't really there :)

I would like to personally challenge the whole of Avalon to find a way to be the model of "together we stand..." with focused intent toward grander goals of "we the people (of the world)" taking back our own control and ridding the planet of the evils that would tear it (and us) apart. Isn't it time to start looking at the bigger picture?

-z

[greybeard]

Most of you don't know me, I rarely post but have seen a lot come and go since AV1. At times like these I see the same situation cause turmoil and its sad. There are good members here that offer quite good "insights" that one can take or leave or adapt to one's own belief system. The hard part is there is real power in the printed word and without visual/verbal inflection, that power is Raw and very easily misunderstood. I personally have found some of the words of Jake, Pie & Tarka to be invaluable while others I have just left alone (no need to debate since its pointless to debate someone else's "opinion"...its theirs not mine)! Now if someone seems condescending, that tone is theirs alone, sure some will get stung by it but rather than react, leave that energy for the person from whom it was issued. We might even see that "condescending tone" wasn't really there :)

I would like to personally challenge the whole of Avalon to find a way to be the model of "together we stand..." with focused intent toward grander goals of "we the people (of the world)" taking back our own control and ridding the planet of the evils that would tear it (and us) apart. Isn't it time to start looking at the bigger picture?

-z

Well your 100th post? sure was well worth waiting for.

"Live and let live" would possibly be a good start.

There is a good old say "Least said soonest mended"

Thanks to zebowho

Chris

[Flash]

There is perceptions and perceptions. I mean that sometimes we perceive things that are not there, like arrogance for example, or team work, and sometimes with do not perceive things that are there, like arrogance and team work.

My bet is that what we see often relfect what we are or do not like in ourselves.

My other bet is that there is miscommunication because the forum communication tool is a difficult one to manage.

I have felt ruffled times and times again, here on Avalon. Sometimes justified when I reread the posts and checked at the language, sometimes not justified when i misinterpreted or did some projections of my own.

But yes, I have been feeling the slap quite a few times, from top down. If I had reacted right away, I would not be here anylonger. I am not here go judge why the slaps were given, but how to improve communication whenever needed.

Our mods are very busy taking care of the forum, getting rid of trolls, being a referee with fights, etc.

On the other hand, we have few people who are communication specialists in real life, they have skills most of us cannot even imagine on making sure communications go through efficiently and do avoid hurting anyone. We also have people who have studied cross cultural interactions, if and when needed.

I could suggest, why don't we use them as communication referee whenever needed, where they could just give us advice, often minor modifrication suggested, to correct our ways of interacting to make sure the message goes through and the messenger is neither shot nor shooting.

It could be a simple solution. As long as it is agreed amongst the members that the forum has communication mentors whose advice could be helpful.

TKS WCBD, you are the one who made me think of this.

[sdv]

Thank you to every one who has posted on this thread. To me, you are all brave souls.

I must confess that I once had a 'hissy fit' (my personal judgement of what happened to me) and asked to be unsubscribed. I was lucky in that the moderator did not act on my request immediately but instead asked me to give a reason. Well, by the time I got that message I had time to 'sleep on it' and changed my mind.

My posts are not popular at all and there are some on this forum who challenge whatever I say vehemently, to which I respond by withdrawing into cowering silence, but I believe that my beliefs and opinions are closed doors in my mind (note that the belief in itself is a closed door) and I have come to realise that participating on this forum is inviting people to knock on those doors and expand my knowing and awareness (and sometimes that is very scary and confusing)

It's tough to participate in an authentic space such as PA and we all make huge mistakes sometimes. I try to remember that even if I mess up so bad that I get kicked off this forum, I can still access the conversations as an anonymous guest so all would not be lost! That gives me courage.

What gives you the courage to participate in this authentic, real space?

[gooty64]

I give all of my support to Tony and Kathy. I feel that the attack on them is grossly exaggerated and outrageous.
They had been challenging the ptb here about at least 3 topics that come to mind:
George Green
Soul capturing
and life in Ecuador
There is much more to this story than the manners of Tony and Kathie which are being addressed.
Isn't calling someone arrogant and over-intellectual and not as knowledgeable as he thinks, 3 forms of ad-hominen?

The negativity on this thread fueled and flamed by post #13 has made me literally sick.
So, i'm not carrying that stuff inside as I am off to see the family for Christmas right now.
Merry Christmas Avalon.

[SKAWF]

A simple question here: How are Tony and Kathie any more responsible for Jake's retirement, than Another Bob is for ROMANKT's retirement? As much as I like and respect Jake, had he no responsibility for his choice?
If someone s punched on the nose without justification, the person who's been injured is responsible for their feelings. But so is the person who punched them. This doesn't mean that punching someone is okay.


so if you punched me on the nose for no reason, which makes me rage with anger...... and i subsequently decide to go on a killing spree, are you responsible for that?

surely responsibilty only lasts for the length of the exchange?

how could you be responsible for things i do afterwards?, that will have been a choice that i made, in isolation, AFTER our interaction.

at which point, are you no longer responsible for my actions?

i would accept that maybe your actions were a contributory factor,
but i couldnt lay the responibilty at your door.

cheers

[RunningDeer]

There is perceptions and perceptions. I mean that sometimes we perceive things that are not there, like arrogance for example, or team work, and sometimes with do not perceive things that are there, like arrogance and team work.

My bet is that what we see often relfect what we are or do not like in ourselves.

My other bet is that there is miscommunication because the forum communication tool is a difficult one to manage.

I have felt ruffled times and times again, here on Avalon. Sometimes justified when I reread the posts and checked at the language, sometimes not justified when i misinterpreted or did some projections of my own.

But yes, I have been feeling the slap quite a few times, from top down. If I had reacted right away, I would not be here anylonger. I am not here go judge why the slaps were given, but how to improve communication whenever needed.

Our mods are very busy taking care of the forum, getting rid of trolls, being a referee with fights, etc.

On the other hand, we have few people who are communication specialists in real life, they have skills most of us cannot even imagine on making sure communications go through efficiently and do avoid hurting anyone. We also have people who have studied cross cultural interactions, if and when needed.

I could suggest, why don't we use them as communication referee whenever needed, where they could just give us advice, often minor modifrication suggested, to correct our ways of interacting to make sure the message goes through and the messenger is neither shot nor shooting.

It could be a simple solution. As long as it is agreed amongst the members that the forum has communication mentors whose advice could be helpful.

TKS WCBD, you are the one who made me think of this.


Thank you, Flash. I believe people are aware of how and what they say. Self-monitor is most important. Otherwise it's them training us to train them. It’s also reinforcing negative behavior for those that seek that kind of attention.

My hope is as a community, we help each other grow in that awareness. Sometimes, it's just a matter of: not taking the time to re-read, or a state of mind, or just wanna go poke-poke, or addicted to the juice, or those that wanna pee-on-the-bush-last. Time for little tweaks in awareness. Be accountable for our own actions.

Most of us respond with respect. (Yes, we have our moments, too.) The ones I’ve encountered that use superiority, patronize, condescend, or dismissive to control “at me”, I’ve searched their other posts. They are disrespectful towards everyone. Others, including myself, are calling them on it. Out of curiosity, the few that have been rude to me, I follow up on. I do see incremental changes. It’s my belief, once they get a sense of tone on our forum, they adjust.

EagleSpirit summed it up perfectly the other day for me:

”...as both owner and supervisor for many years I have had to make the solo decisions to let people go (if it was a union job I would simply have them transferred)...and sometimes the very top of the talent on the crew.... because something about them was just not 'right' and was deliberate in and of them in hindering proper progress and momentum and 'working together' rhythm...”

Community effort. Personal responsibility. Awareness checks. It's unfair to expect the mods to monitor 24/7. I'm sure they'd prefer to focus their energy on contributions to our community.

Peace,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

[Freed Fox]

As this thread progresses, I'm becoming more apprehensive about the direction it is taking.

As I said earlier, I spoke only for myself when stating that I did not wish to take sides. I would like to at least suggest this stance to others who have yet to adopt it.

Let's not draw lines in the sand.

It was Jake's decision to leave, as it will be his decision to return (or not). We have offered him sufficient support in either case. What's been said can't be unsaid.

I want to express again that I harbor no animosity toward pie'n'eal or Tarka. I don't think anyone else should, either. Their approach and/or demeanor may not sit well with some of us but I do not see them as malicious, confrontational, or otherwise destructive to the sharing of research and ideas that goes on here.

Let's not allow the overall discourse to take a hit because of this incident.

[RunningDeer]

I give all of my support to Tony and Kathy. I feel that the attack on them is grossly exaggerated and outrageous.
They had been challenging the ptb here aout at least 3 topics that come to mind:
George Green
Soul capturing
and life in Ecuador
There is much more to this story than the manners of Tony and Kathie which are being addressed.
Isn't calling someone arrogant and over-intellectual and not as knowledgeable as he thinks he 3 forms of ad-hominen?

The negativity on this thread fueled and flamed by post #13 has made me literally sick.
So, i'm not carrying that stuff inside as I am off to see the family for Christmas right now.
Merry Christmas Avalon.

Hello Gooty64/Alan and Otis,

Sometimes we've gotta dig out the gunk to clear the air. We've all got blind spots. In part, that's what our Avalon Family is about. To ungunk. Enjoy your Christmas holiday. Don't forget to use seatbelts and signals. xo

Love,
Paula :wave:

[AwakeInADream]

The events on this thread have caused me to consider my own tone and how I come across (I hope well),
we are at quite a disadvantage communicating only in words.

I make a habit of projecting love into everyone's words, because I know that deep down that is what we are all about.

It is a shame that the forum should lose such valuable person as Jake and I hope he comes back.

Kind regards to Pie'n'eal, whom I value greatly too.

(One good thing to come out of all this, is that I am about to read Jakes ebook,
and I do hope he'll be around again to take feedback/questions.)

(Boy am I getting paranoid about my choice of words...Please take them with the love I intend)

[Whiskey_Mystic]

In text communication, it is very easy to misconstrue tone and therefore intention. I do it all the time because I have a naturally defensive personality.

I'd like to refer everyone again to the principles of nonviolent communication, which is a foundational study for anyone trying to form a strong community.

http://www.cnvc.org/

Let's also remember that ultimately we are each responsible for our reactions to any given stimuli. That's not excuse to be rude to each other. Having good manners means always trying to make the other person feel safe and comfortable even when we try to present a differing opinion or view. But no one can truly upset us if we choose to laugh instead.

Embody the harmony that you wish to see in the world.

[Limor Wolf]

I hope it's o.k to throw a few words to this discussion. I had the same reaction as Dennis when heard just now that Jake has decided to leave the forum. Jake is a dear dear person and I had the honor to 'spend some time' with him on the moderator's team, we both joined at the same time. He is a great human being, I don't know much details about his life outside of the forum, but I do know what he is made of.. I egoistically say that I DO NOT wish to give this person up. As Christine said in her very tasteful written post - we do not know the reason for why Jake has asked to be unsubscribed, there are all sorts of happenings going in our lives that can take us to a different decision one day then we would normally do the other day, there are some roller coasters that we are all going through, not being the ordinary lads who watch football and still belive that the next elected president will take care of them, and everyone, everywhere has their own bags of challenges to deal with, anyway.

What I love and appreciate about Avalon especially after reading this thread, is that people are not afraid to share and learn from what is upsetting them, trying to make reason of their own behaviours all the time as well as that of others in relations to them, wanting to make ammends and bridge differences. this is not something that is being excersiced in all other groups of people. I know Jake that you don't often have internet connection where you are, and that your visits unfortunetly has subsided over the last few months, but giving up your 'family' here is something I beg you not to do. There is a sour and a sweet in everything in life and your presence as well as your friendship is needed, I will be (as many others) so ever grateful when you reinstate yourself back. Much love till then. Limor

[music]

It is mystifying to me that Jake leaves after message 9: “I love you dearly, tony. My judjements are regarding the words, not the person. I engage in,perhaps a different style. I do not apologize. I do apologize for the derailement of your discussion!! Tarka,,, there are heroes everywhere...” which would seem to imply he is miffed, but OK with it. Still, intense energies and all. Most of us have suffered more cutting attacks on here than this thread contains. Intense energies.

Tony is not a bad person, his flaw in my eyes would be this: if the truth is a pie, each religion or theology is but a piece of the pie. Tony takes a serving suggestion and presents it as a fact. That said, there are certain unassailable spiritual truths, and Tony does on occasion deal with those well.

Kathy replies to a strong but fair comment directed against Tony in an equally strong manner, but her emotion leads her astray from her calm centre. This is not a crime, and neither is it pre-meditated evil. It is humanity. We are imperfect. We are swayed by our emotions.

Bill comes in with comments that, in my opinion, show the most hostility on the thread, netherless, open hostility is a little better passive aggression. Bill is entitled to his opinion, but should be mindful of the responsibility he bears given the hero-like status he has for many on here. If Kathie’s words had the effect of a carefully-wielded stiletto, Bill’s words have the effect of placing a big scarlet letter on the breasts of Tony and Kathy. This is old paradigm.

Jake will return, and he, Tony and Kathie will make their peace. Bill or one of the moderators will remind Tony and Kathy about forum etiquette, but in my opinion, this should have been done privately so that it would have been a nett contribution to the journey toward unity, rather than what it has actually been here.

[truthseekerdan]

We all experience our spiritual development in our own unique way. For some of us the changes occur slowly, for others a series of events can trigger sudden growth. We do not all share the same symptoms or changes in behavior. And certainly we hold to our individual experiences and spiritual beliefs.

We are as different as snowflakes, yet we share a common essence and general shape. Some of this information may resonate for you. Other concepts may not be comfortable for you. Each of us must examine new information and discern for ourselves what is truth and what does not serve us. Let us not be carried away and controlled by our "human emotions"...


Much Love always :hug:

[Bill Ryan]

Dear members

Firstly, I need to say that I have not read this entire thread because I think the contents would stick in my mind for too long, but I've been told what has been said on here – and to be honest, I'm devastated. To be personally attacked in this way is really hurtful, and I don't quite know how to deal with it.

If I have ever upset, or disrespected, or demeaned, or disregarded, or been rude to anyone, I apologise unreservedly.

I behave on the forum in the same way that I behave in life. I don't play a part, or have a “game plan” or write anything I don't mean: I'm just me, and if that is not acceptable, then I'd rather be unsubscribed here and now.

Kathie

Hello Kathie,

I don't know enough about the Buddhist Way, but one of my masters degrees is in Human Relations (this is a tacky comment). I didn't need to be an awakened being to experience how you chose to communicate.

I was accepted to Project Avalon on February 6, 2011. It is the only forum I’ve participated on. This was the exchange with you on February 19, 2011, not two weeks into my stay. I had no idea that there were themes to threads. And in my mind Tony had a funny video (see below) to make his point as well. I also didn’t know you were, husband and wife.

Post #21 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40490-Exaggerating-feelings&p=431435&viewfull=1#post431435)




"Stuff, Stuff and More Stuff"


Hi, my name is Paula, and I’m a collector-holic. I’m coming clean. Before the invention of eBooks, I was a collector of the paper kind. Piles of them. I found that eBooks is not the true solution either, but I'll leave that discussion for another time.

How about you? Is your stuff beginning to feel more like anchors? No, I’m not going to suggest that you lighten your load. Heck, you can even have some of my stuff, if it makes you feel more secure. Because that’s what I want for you. Security means opportunity to feel the freedom and joy. And that my friend helps you, and me and everyone else.

These were some of the questions I had to ask my self. So I pass this list on to you so you can have one more thing to collect. Have you in the past or recently:

-purchase a larger home/apartment to store your stuff?
-taken on monthly payments for off site storage for your stuff?
-added a new addition on your home for your stuff?
-purchased a carport kit garage because there’s no room in your two car garage?
-purchased a stand alone building for your property?
-hired someone to build an stand alone building for your property?
-attached a mother-in-law apartment to your home, but don't have a mother-in-law?
-bribed your kids with Xbox 360 and iPhones to share a room in exchange to free up a room for your stuff?
-own a moldy box collection filled with things you have no idea because the magic marker has faded?
-rubric-cube configuration of boxes stacked with middle boxes of stuff getting the silent treatment?
-petrified mice entombed because they failed the cardboard maze of stuff?
-or how about a missing child or pet?

Lastly, if you find you have a line item budget that includes yearly moving expenses, or security deposit for first month and last month rent, or boxes chasing you in your dreams, it might be time for a green bag party. I use green so I can’t see what’s made it in. And the second rule don’t look in the bag. Be brave, tie it up.

Stuff need not become anchors. If stuff provides basic comforts that free you up to become a balanced being then stuff serves it’s purpose. Stuff can be a material tool to get your from Point A to Point B. Please, don’t forget that your heart holds more than you think. Picture, memories, loved one they are all there for the asking.


Hello Paula

I have to ask...is this on the right thread?! Without wishing to appear rude, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about!!
I've been following this thread, and can't see how this fits in at all...could you please explain what you are trying to say a little more clearly?
Thanks

Kathie

With all the grace I could muster, I tried to answer your question; all while, red faced, heart pounding and holding my breath, asking myself WTF are you here, Paula? I reminded myself of a major synchronicity that lead me here; that and a continued promise to myself to act on those feelings.
Post #22 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40490-Exaggerating-feelings&p=431445&viewfull=1#post431445)





"Stuff, Stuff and More Stuff"




Hello Paula

I have to ask...is this on the right thread?! Without wishing to appear rude, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about!!
I've been following this thread, and can't see how this fits in at all...could you please explain what you are trying to say a little more clearly?
Thanks

Kathie
My take on “exaggerated feeling” comes from a place of needing to be filled because of emptiness of self. Sometimes, people fill themselves up with the material things rather than to clear their space and open to whom they are without the physical identifiers how many, how much, how often. Just simply be. Part of becoming Enlightened is to know what is truly need in this 3D human experience.

And also, what’s most important is held in the heart. All material successes and toys and things, pales in comparison. Simply be, simply heart.

If this doesn’t fit the thread, I’d have no problem removing it.

You didn’t let up.

Post # 23 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40490-Exaggerating-feelings&p=431456&viewfull=1#post431456)


@Whitecrowblackdeer


My take on “exaggerated feeling” comes from a place of needing to be filled because of emptiness of self. Sometimes, people fill themselves up with the material things rather than to clear their space and open to whom they are without the physical identifiers how many, how much, how often. Just simply be.

And also, what’s most important is held in the heart. All material successes and toys and things, pales in comparison.

If this doesn’t fit the thread, I’d have no problem removing it.I wondered, as I read your thread, who you were talking to. There seemed such an emphasis on the acquisition of material "wealth", and I wasn't sure whether you were using this as a metaphor or not.

The size of someone's house, and advice about how to get rid of our accumulated junk…are you being literal here?

But this thread is all about inner work, which is very subtle. About how easy it is to get carried away with exaggerations of our knowledge, our abilities, our ineptitude… Can't quite see how the "collector-holic" theme fits in :o

Apologies if this is a finely-honed analogy that I am missing completely!

Whereas Tony’s post fit perfectly in my estimation.

Post #4 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40490-Exaggerating-feelings&p=425716&viewfull=1#post425716)


This episode is about Class and status, 11 minutes into the video, Manuel is told to 'throw it away!"


6lWJwgpOjpA


Each time, I took the high road. You didn’t let up. It did feel like your words didn’t match the subtle tone. But I understood that if I called you on it, there'd be another question that was a not-so-subtle-statement in disguise.

I waited a little longer because I couldn’t live with myself if I ‘ran away’. Then, I unsubscribed. I used that time to learn about how to get around threads and saw that not everyone used the same communication style. I’d want to post on Tony’s threads, but I saw that you were there. As mentioned above, I didn’t know you were together. Which shouldn’t make any difference. It just wasn't worth the hassle.

You have a lot of wise points to offer. I've returned to your posts with an open mind, but the same questioning techniques were used on others. It was hard to watch another go through it. Admittedly, I recognized my projection from those earlier exchanges. I'll continue to read what you have to share. You've assist my growth in seen and unseen ways. For that I thank you, Kathie.

Respectfully submitted,
Paula

Great post, Paula -- thank you for sharing this.

[Beren]

I suggest from now on- we should have a fire quencher sort of a mechanism.
If anyone burst in flames here ...
:)

Meaning all of the people here are respectful and loving ones. No nasty ones as they are quickly detected by mods (Paul carries the banner :) ) I notice that even if we quarrel ,all is essentially well.
My friends-this is quality.

Never forget this.
Raise above pettiness and talk like a fully developed person.

So "think before you flame"...as someone had this in their signature...

[M6*]

Love. It's easy.

And sometimes....not so easy. M6*

[HaveBlue]

Anybody supplying cellphones, and gaming consoles to young children under 18 is an ignorant fool. Harsh words but quite correct.

Why on earth would you want to cook the (still trying to grow) brain of your own child with microwaves?

What good can possibly come from video games? What use are they? training to be a soldier who flys a drone aircraft from some safe location while dropping bombs on innocent citizens is the only use they have.

The NWO is laughing at you. in fact they are saying, see I told you how stupid they are and that is why the useless eaters are mere slaves and canon fodder of ours to do as we like. Too stupid to think for themselves. You're own cellphone is tracking you and spying on you as it cooks your brain and causes brain tumours.

To ignore finding out about such things before you inflict them upon your children surely must be called neglect.
Providing a child with video games to 'get them out of your hair' is also neglect.

Barrie Trower is the man to look up on youtube. He's another one who lost his job because he told the truth.

That is the problem with out finding facts and having integrety- you have to take action.
From distilling my water to rid it of poisons to finding out what the numbers mean on the packets at the supermarket.

My two kids are grateful their dad cares enough. They are happy to be 'deprived' of those moron machines as we call them. Same goes for wireless devices and cordless phones. And the microwave was tossed when I learned about that too.



While it is an expensive mistake to buy all those things and them learn about them and be rid of them, the longer term cost is way more. Neither could we pass the buck and sell or even give them to others that were less informed.

Teach the children well. This post is about what that statement means. Sadly in my own neighbourhood which is a mixture of income brackets, it is the poor kids that have the cellphones and X boxes. No landline nor internet.
Those same kids are behind at school in maths and English. Their learning time for that and everything else is stolen by video games.

I should be happy my two kids are the smartest in their classes. But I am not. They are not especially smart. The others are especially dumbed down with their own parents blessing. It really is a living horror movie/nightmare.

Ignorance was bliss for some that will read this post. What will you do now you know? Just cop out and decide my post is BS without investigating further?
once you have knowledge of something you are no longer innocent.

[Bill Ryan]

A simple question here: How are Tony and Kathie any more responsible for Jake's retirement, than Another Bob is for ROMANWKT's retirement? As much as I like and respect Jake, had he no responsibility for his choice?

Hi, Fred: I've only just got round to looking at what had happened here (on Another Bob's thread Greetings! (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53428-Greetings-)).

The opening post which upset Roman was an obvious light-hearted spoof about ascension. Another Bob did nothing on that thread to upset anyone. The situation is not quite the same.

Btw -- Roman is back on the forum after requesting that he be re-subscribed. We have not seen or heard from Jake.

[Zelig]

Although this incident seems to have been discussed sufficiently, I am arrogant enough to feel compelled to continue the debate. As I see it, this forum is populated by an unusually well-mannered demographic who, as individuals, are pursuing a wide range of beliefs, theories, quests, etc, and each member has their unique character and approach. Some post with confidence and certainty and others post cautiously and carefully. I very much appreciate Tony's and Roman's posts and respect their willingness to go out on various limbs. I don't have that level of confidence and hope someday to develop it. The dustups that rarely occur are not at all surprising. Each word posted can be interpreted and intended in many ways and it is compounded by the number of words used to express one's point or opinion. It is surprising that more of these incidents don't happen on a regular basis, given the number of posts and threads that are active each day. It was interesting to see how civil the response to this altercation remained. Everyone seems eager to resolve this amicably and with nobody leaving the playground. How refreshing is that?
Getting back to the topic of intent, I had no idea that Tony's wife was Tarka, and when I read the offending post I didn't interpret it as obviously malicious. After Bill pointed out the connection though, I reread it and saw the potential for it coming across as the dagger he described. My point here is that as the reader I can imagine a wide range of intended meaning in others' posts but I have no way of knowing what was in their hearts or minds when they typed it out. Based on the environment of the forum, I am more than willing to assume that the intentions at the root of this whole affair were misunderstood.
I do question, however, why it was deemed necessary for Bill to inform me of Tarka the Duck's identity.

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Dear All:

A very close, caring friend has taken me to task for using the word 'arrogant' to describe Tony (pie'n'eal), citing -- correctly -- that I was guilty of double standards inasmuch as had most other members used that kind of language, their post would probably have been reported and the mods prompted into action behind the scenes to censure the offender.

I was reminded of the responsibility I have in setting an example in my language and conduct. All of that is valid.

Close to the heart of this, a number of issues are raised, none of them trivial or easy to wave away or to resolve. Those following the work of passionate advocates such as David Icke, Alex Jones, Duncan O'Finioan and even our very own Kerry Cassidy will know and understand that that very passion, energy, sensitivity and caring that all combines to bring them them at once to be outspoken, courageous, articulate, controversial and (occasionally) upsetting to others, is part of the same package.

I bet it's hard to live with David, Alex, or Duncan, I know it's hard to live with Kerry, and I'm told it's hard to live with me. We are all imperfect humans -- trying, each in the best way we can., to make an impact and change the course of an imperfect world.

And David, Alex, Duncan and Kerry all call it the way they see it. I do too, though normally in my English wordsmith demeanor I choose my words carefully and with responsibility. Occasionally I do not. What that may reveal to others is the extent to which I care about some issues.

I care about Jake -- and I do not need to justify this: I've never met him or spoken with him. I just do. And when I took it upon myself to change the energy of this thread, and shift its focus, I did not know what the response would be.

It appeared that a number of others were also horrified that Jake had jumped off the Bridge, for whatever reason, and shared my concern about what(ever) had occurred. This is also a risk that truthseekers take when they state their perception of the truth: they do not know what the response will be. They are merely the one who has stated their truth first. This is a risky business. They may be hailed as a hero... or nailed to the cross. I do not use that analogy lightly.

So I apologize to the forum for my harsh misuse of language in calling Tony (pie'n'eal) out as arrogant, and stating that Kathie (Tarka the Duck) had knowingly or unknowingly wielded a stiletto. With my moderators' hat off, I remain firm in that view. I cannot apologize for my own truth. I can, however, apologize for the way I communicate it, and the public example I offer.

What would help in this situation is:


For Tony to understand that he has not been appointed as the forum's resident guru;
For Kathie to refrain from operating as his tag team partner (and to see this clearly, read their co-ordinated attack on George Green, who with Jake, I also count as a friend, and who is not here to defend or explain himself);
And for me to conduct myself with more patience and understanding when I am confronted with actions and words which immediately strike me as not up to the standard that I and the moderators expect from members, which necessarily includes myself and them.

I am hopeful that all this learning will occur, and that Jake will return. We will wait and see. As I said earlier, I have told the moderators that I will step back and allow them to decide, without me, what action, if any, should be taken about anything at all. They will confirm that I very rarely influence their perceptions, views or decisions, and this is one of the reasons why the forum works so well.

[CdnSirian]

"I do question, however, why it was deemed necessary for Bill to inform me of Tarka the Duck's identity. "

I'm quite sure, Zelig, that Tarka's identity has been referred to by Pie and herself in various posts. I can't remember where I first read that, but it seems it has not been a secret, and I have been aware of it for a while.

Regards.

[Zelig]

"I do question, however, why it was deemed necessary for Bill to inform me of Tarka the Duck's identity. "

I'm quite sure, Zelig, that Tarka's identity has been referred to by Pie and herself in various posts. I can't remember where I first read that, but it seems it has not been a secret, and I have been aware of it for a while.

Regards.

This may well be yet another instance of me being the last to know something.

[SKAWF]

underneath EVERYTHING is energy.

really, the words we use are like oily swirls on the surface of water.

balance is a constant.

about half of the humans on earth, are women, with the other half being ... men.
and out of all those men and women, half of them will like you and half of them wont.

this has more to do with the laws of physics than any dogma or belief.

its just energy.

some people sap the energy out of you, and others give you a boost
with some there is harmony..... and with others dischord.

some people (about half!) are born on the opposite phase of the cycle,
and without them even trying.....
interaction with them could.... cause conflict.

is it the words that people say which offend,
or is it some underlying factor that we read into the situation?
the energy of the intent perhaps.

i think..... given how balanced everything is,
and given how many people post here,
and the amount of views which are expressed,

it is a testimony to all of our self control,
that this place as civilized as it is!

[music]

Good on you Bill, apologizing is difficult, but the sign of a good heart. The world would be a better place for more of it.

[Flash]

Now, I wish wonderfull Christmas to Jake and his family, as well as an excellent coming year.

I do wish also a wonderfull holidays to Tony and Tarta.

Thanks Bill for bringning back common sense with your last post. Everyone here understand passion, also most probably a majority of us are difficult people to live with because we are out of the ordinary and quite convinced of our own thinking, however, we most of all are basically well intentioned and have a very good heart. Thank that you do to Bill, this is why this forum is holding up.

So I wish you Bill excellent holiday in the warm weather I envy - me gustaria estar ahi y pasar el hivierno asi.

Great seasons to all on this thread,

Love

Flash

[DarMar]

The Quieter You Become The More You Are Able To Hear

[Limor Wolf]

-------

Dear All:

A very close, caring friend has taken me to task for using the word 'arrogant' to describe Tony (pie'n'eal), citing -- correctly -- that I was guilty of double standards inasmuch as had most other members used that kind of language, their post would probably have been reported and the mods prompted into action behind the scenes to censure the offender.

I was reminded of the responsibility I have in setting an example in my language and conduct. All of that is valid.

Close to the heart of this, a number of issues are raised, none of them trivial or easy to wave away or to resolve. Those following the work of passionate advocates such as David Icke, Alex Jones, Duncan O'Finioan and even our very own Kerry Cassidy will know and understand that that very passion, energy, sensitivity and caring that all combines to bring them them at once to be outspoken, courageous, articulate, controversial and (occasionally) upsetting to others, is part of the same package.

I bet it's hard to live with David, Alex, or Duncan, I know it's hard to live with Kerry, and I'm told it's hard to live with me. We are all imperfect humans -- trying, each in the best way we can., to make an impact and change the course of an imperfect world.

And David, Alex, Duncan and Kerry all call it the way they see it. I do too, though normally in my English wordsmith demeanor I choose my words carefully and with responsibility. Occasionally I do not. What that may reveal to others is the extent to which I care about some issues.

I care about Jake -- and I do not need to justify this: I've never met him or spoken with him. I just do. And when I took it upon myself to change the energy of this thread, and shift its focus, I did not know what the response would be.

It appeared that a number of others were also horrified that Jake had jumped off the Bridge, for whatever reason, and shared my concern about what(ever) had occurred. This is also a risk that truthseekers take when they state their perception of the truth: they do not know what the response will be. They are merely the one who has stated their truth first. This is a risky business. They may be hailed as a hero... or nailed to the cross. I do not use that analogy lightly.

So I apologize to the forum for my harsh misuse of language in calling Tony (pie'n'eal) out as arrogant, and stating that Kathie (Tarka the Duck) had knowingly or unknowingly wielded a stiletto. With my moderators' hat off, I remain firm in that view. I cannot apologize for my own truth. I can, however, apologize for the way I communicate it, and the public example I offer.

What would help in this situation is:


For Tony to understand that he has not been appointed as the forum's resident guru;
For Kathie to refrain from operating as his tag team partner (and to see this clearly, read their co-ordinated attack on George Green, who with Jake, I also count as a friend, and who is not here to defend or explain himself);
And for me to conduct myself with more patience and understanding when I am confronted with actions and words which immediately strike me as not up to the standard that I and the moderators expect from members, which necessarily includes myself and them.

I am hopeful that all this learning will occur, and that Jake will return. We will wait and see. As I said earlier, I have told the moderators that I will step back and allow them to decide, without me, what action, if any, should be taken about anything at all. They will confirm that I very rarely influence their perceptions, views or decisions, and this is one of the reasons why the forum works so well.

A great Light Warrior knows how to make a stand and how to ask for forgivness, and he uses both skills in equal measure. Thank you Bill and thank you Bill's friend ~

[onawah]

I saw this on Facebook today, posted by a very enlightened friend:

SPIRITUALITY PRETEST:

If you can live without caffeine or nicotine
If you can be cheerful, ignoring aches and pains
If you can resist complaining
If you can understand when loved ones are too busy to give you any time
If you can take criticism and blame without resentment
If you can ignore friends’ limited educations and never correct them
If you can treat the rich and poor alike
If you can face the world without lies or deceit
If you can conquer tension without medical help
If you can have no prejudice against creed, color, religion, gender, sexual preference, or politics…
…then you have almost reached the same level of spiritual development as your pet dog.

(author unknown)
www.creationspirit.net

I would add kitties to that equation.
Mine has been my best, most profound and loving teacher.

Avalon has been another wonderful teacher.
I think it's not who's right that matters in the long run, it's what we learn about ourselves and each other through the process of communicating that counts.

It will soon be the year 2013.
Imagine that!! :lol:

http://https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/14698_511158748924794_2143713691_n.jpg

[Anchor]

That was nice to wake up and read.

I am quite happy to see the thread take the turn it has within the past day.

If anyone does not think that recent days have marked a change in energy and consciousness, then I recommend a review and rethink.

[noxon medem]

..
-

This thread (And Forum) progress
in an amazing way .....

But
Some of the developement seems
based on an uncertain premise ...

Have Jake resigned his AF account ?
- The short answer is No, not by now.

Here a screenimage from recently :
19755
Captured today, local time
(http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53486-The-effect-of-Doubt--and-after-post-9-Jake-asks-to-be-unsubscribed-&p=604664&viewfull=1#post604664)

..
-

And then some more fun:

19756
That man looks like Tony to me, and
ay Kid - with a Bucked full of Surprise !
Do not get too comfy, or stale, in your ..
( Chair ..).

- Please , take care of eachother .

One last image association, for now :

19757
( - Carefull , Glass .. )

Cheers and be well, All .

:fish2:

nm

[RunningDeer]

Have Jake resigned his AF account ?
- The short answer is No, not by now.
Be well, and take care of each other .

One last image association, for now :
- Careful , Glass ..

Cheers and be well, All .

:fish2:

nm
Hello noxon medem,

It's says that Jake is an active member because Paul has left the door open for him. In the meantime, I did follow your first picture to his "Happy New Year" thread. I noticed there were two web addresses in his signature box. I've left messages on both of them.

And funny thing, I saw Paul's cow, had already come and gone. :cow: Which to me, serves as another example of how much love there is here. Sniff.

[christian]

What a tussle! I think this is at the heart of human evolution and the awakening, how do we actually deal with each other, right here, on a day to day and moment to moment basis. So we have a good test case here again, may we figure it out in a somewhat detached way. I mean, we are all operating through our limited human body-mind-computer, through which only a fraction of our true consciousness seems to peak through at any given time still. I want to acknowledge that in general virtually everyone here has got the intention to be of service and that it's mostly the inner demons that each of us struggle with that prompt us to engage in those kind of infighting. Given all that, I wanna share my own limited perspective on this whole issue without meaning to offend anyone. I wanna be blunt and impartial, without judgement, just conveying my impressions from my heart to yours, it's all just about helping each other to figure things out. Making the roots of the conflicts conscious instead of bashing a perceived cause that may or may not be real.

Jake, you know I've read good parts of your book, I find you very interesting and find it odd, to say the least, that you left over Kathie's comment that you don't know others (i.e. Tony) and that you are judgemental. Whether or not this is true, I mean if I would have left any situation where I felt offended by things, I wouldn't have gotten much done. My hunch is that there is more that prompted you to leave... There are always things that might offend you, even things good friends do, but I find being tolerant and compassionate and being appreciative of the fact that we all are fallible will help us all much more than being resentful. Plus I'd have thought that you made some really good connections on the forum, so I don't quite get why you would leave all those because of a perceived inappropriate comment. As you can see, your presence here is much appreciated. It's impossible to always agree with everyone here, the challenge really is to get along nevertheless somehow, lead by example. How can humanity stop being thrown back by unnecessary disputes? Let's lead by example. I find it good that there are many different voices here gathered with the overall intent to sail together through rough waters.

Tony, you write a lot of threads about spiritual topics. It seems to me like you're repeating a basic point over and over again, and that is, don't get caught in analyzing the hieroglyphics of a snowman, and don't try to actively do something but just be aware... Now it seems somewhat contradictive to me that you put so much effort into rewording and dissecting your ideas and actively publishing it all on the forum. Are you thus not actively trying to make a difference?

When it comes to Tony and Kathie acting as a "tag-team", I guess there are quite some friendships on the forum and quite some occasions where people side with others. That's just natural. Now Tony and Kathie even live together, I guess it's still perfectly fine if they converse with each other on the forum, that's what it's there for, it would only be a bugger if they would intentionally pretend to have a conversation when it would all be scripted.

Getting more abstract again, I guess you all saw it at one place or another, where people don't talk bluntly yet gently about little things which each other, but instead allow resentment within themselves to build up to the point where people throw things at each other violently or act in a similarly aggressive way, even if it is just passive-aggressive. I think all we can do is become aware of this pattern, stop it, pluck out its root and look each other in the eye with love, compassion and forbearance and realize, that each one has to come to an understanding on his own eventually, but we can always reach out and lend a helping hand, it's up to the other if it's being taken or not. Let's try to tackle issues while they are small and let's appreciate, that this is still quite difficult, so don't be that harsh with one another.

Having someone throw words at you that seem offending can of course be troublesome. But it's hard to draw a line there; what is meant to hurt, what is just the clumsiness of someone who's hurt himself and what is only perceived hostility? I think in general it should be encouraged to share one's genuine feelings, so they can be observed, appreciated, understood and released out in the open without judgement, so that we can make it all conscious and evolve consciously. This is what respect also means, allowing others to get things off of their chest while keeping one's own triggers under control. This is how you can express true love and thus teach others true love. It's again reaching out a hand, you cannot make the other take it, but you can always reach out. This is an essential part of Avalon in my eyes, members equipping readers and each other to become more efficient facilitators of genuine uplifting change. And as with proper tutorship, this is not about filling a vessel, but reminding others of the burning fire for love, inquisitiveness, courage, greatness and compassion in their own hearts.

Now this is all a rather vague rambling here, but I think this issue is not very clear-cut as well. So what can we do? Cool down and be gentle with each other, for everyone is fighting a hard battle, to quote Plato. And here, "the four commandments" by Don Miguel Ruiz, kind of fits, I find:

1. Be Impeccable with your Word
Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the Word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your Word in the direction of truth and love.

2. Don’t Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won’t be the victim of needless suffering.

3. Don’t Make Assumptions
Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.

4. Always Do Your Best
Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse, and regret.

[ThePythonicCow]

Have Jake resigned his AF account ?
- The short answer is No, not by now.


It's says that Jake is an active member because Paul has left the door open for him.

WhiteCrowBlackDeer is correct. The last word we had from Jake was in the PM to me, asking to close his account. I closed his account, and then a day later I reopened it, in order to leave the door open for him. Jake did not request that I reopen it, and so far as I know, does not yet know that it is reopened.

[Kindling]

Noxon, I absolutely adore that duck in the wine glass!

[Bill Ryan]

n
If anyone does not think that recent days have marked a change in energy and consciousness, then I recommend a review and rethink.

With respect (and I really do mean that) -- that was not my personal experience. I and another very close friend had a really dreadful day yesterday -- one which I would not want to repeat too frequently.

It's entirely possible that energies are increasing -- whatever that means! But like the wind picking up on a stormy sea, some ships may be propelled faster if their crew is adept and the sails are set well -- while others threaten to capsize, or even founder completely. I don't see any evidence that there'll be an easy ride in the years ahead. In my opinion, we're nowhere near out of the woods yet, and to believe otherwise may be to walk straight into another well-designed trap.

There is reason for hope and opportunity (as I've said and written many times, I and many, many others wouldn't have come to this planet this lifetime if the game was terminally rigged) -- but the outcome is not certain, and it's a very long haul.

There is most certainly a gradually increasing rise of consciousness on the planet, but it doesn't step-change in one day. As I've also said many times, it'll take several generations to clear up the enormous mess that this planet is in, practically on the brink if not pretty much hanging over the edge.

I do believe it's recoverable... but only just. (Note that eminent ecologists like James Lovelock have stated that they disagree, and that they believe is simply too late.)

This is why I am so passionate about facing reality: we do not have the luxury of doing anything else. And it take a very great deal of courage and honesty to do that.

[Fred Steeves]

If anyone does not think that recent days have marked a change in energy and consciousness, then I recommend a review and rethink.

With respect (and I really do mean that) -- that was not my personal experience. I and another very close friend had a really dreadful day yesterday -- one which I would not want to repeat too frequently.

It's entirely possible that energies are increasing -- whatever that means! But like the wind picking up on a stormy sea, some ships may be propelled faster if their crew is adept and the sails are set well -- while others threaten to capsize, or even founder completely. I don't see any evidence that there'll be an easy ride in the years ahead. In my opinion, we're nowhere near out of the woods yet, and to believe otherwise may be to walk straight into another well-designed trap.

I agree with that 100% Bill, if anything life gets increasingly more difficult with the raising of one's awareness. More and more one is compelled to do what's right, despite impending consequences, and the ultimate fate of many of the great ancient mystics and philosophers bears witness to this. Any captain whose crew is anything less then well seasoned would do well to stay in port.

Conversely, the most experienced crews wait for rough seas to set out, because they're the ones who carry the lifeboats.



This is why I am so passionate about facing reality: we do not have the luxury of doing anything else. And it take a very great deal of courage and honesty to do that.

Amen brother, and as far as I'm concerned anyway, that's what Avalon is all about. Like the saying from "Field Of Dreams" says so accurately: "If you build it, they will come". Hope you're having a better day today. :)

Cheers,
Fred

P.S. Despite the occassional ruffled feathers, thank you for building and maintaining this gathering place, the best on the internet, for all of us misfit toys to gather and learn/remember from one another.

[Youniverse]

I appreciate and respect what Bill is saying about facing reality, I really do, but whose reality? For many of the folks I encounter on a day to day basis, many of the things I 'know' to be true, they have never even heard of. So if what you mean by 'reality,' Bill, is the basic laws and things we can all agree on, then yes I'm with you!

[Davidallany]

This pure awareness is not sterile.
It is full of love and compassion.

Hi Tony,
Pure awareness. Is that a state where duality ceases to exist?
I have not had experienced pure awareness in this life time yet, as far as memory serves.

[Davidallany]

Jake was one of the best mods on Avalon since my request to be accepted on this place where sanity is still well and alive. Jake had helped me among many new comers, on many occasions. His friendly manner, sharpness and attention to details had given me much more confidence to voice my openion on Avalon. I conside him to be a star on Avalon.
I consider Tony to be a good person, although he does take it too far sometimes when feeding us wisdom. We all get carried away some times, some more than others. I personally have done it before.
Tony I love you man, but for Pete's sake just drop it.
Tarka does support Tony more often than not I am afraid, which is not very Buddhist of her. In Buddhisim one is ought to care for all, not just their close family, but the entire Human family. What's the use of speaking words without practicing them, I mean applying the ultimate Truth theory, taking sides to satisfy personal ends rather than accepting what is, is duality and very far from practicing ultimate reality theory indeed.

[ThePythonicCow]

Jake was one of the best mods on Avalon ...
Yes, he was. Thanks, Jake.

[panopticon]

As I've also said many times, it'll take several generations to clear up the enormous mess that this planet is in, practically on the brink if not pretty much hanging over the edge.

This is one of the most important things that people never seem to get.
It has taken millennia for the planet to get into this state and to think it can be "fixed" in the space of one lifetime, in my opinion, is not plausible. I personally believe that if change is to be undertaken it will take at least a Century for norms, and from this generally accepted beliefs and behaviour, to alter. Maybe the various catalysts will push this along but I doubt it will happen quickly (ie it will be reactive instead of proactive).

I'm a big advocate for societal change and also for the 'until the 7th generation' view of action. As a result I try to think in terms of how changes will affect my great, great grand children's grand children...



I do believe it's recoverable... but only just. (Note that eminent ecologists like James Lovelock have stated that they disagree, and that they believe is simply too late.)

This is why I am so passionate about facing reality: we do not have the luxury of doing anything else. And it take a very great deal of courage and honesty to do that.

I do not see things continuing as normal past the mid 21st Century and can only hope that the centralisation processes, that have been gathering force since the industrial revolution, will be overcome by concerted grass root advocacy and interconnection outside of the bureaucratic systems of control (as an example though there are many restrictions on individual/group empowerment).
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[SKAWF]

I appreciate and respect what Bill is saying about facing reality, I really do, but whose reality? For many of the folks I encounter on a day to day basis, many of the things I 'know' to be true, they have never even heard of. So if what you mean by 'reality,' Bill, is the basic laws and things we can all agree on, then yes I'm with you!

we're all born WHOLE.
we are the center of our own universe,
and EVERYTHING revolves around us.

not as a collective, but as a unique entity.

so You are a star.....
the center of your own universe.
everything revolves around you,
and you were given an infinity to be explored in an ifinite number of ways.

just like me..... just like bill, just like Jake, and just like everyone else.

(as an aside.... consider for a moment how this thing actually works...
even though we are all in close(ish) proximity to each other,
we are still the centers of our own universe!.
i revolve around you... just as you revolve around me... thats staggering to my mind)

and as for so called authority.......

theoretically, i could up and leave this planet tommorow to continue my experience elsewhere,
so who actually, is in charge of my experience?.... they need me more than i need them.
without us...... they are nothing.

the manipulation was designed to take EVERYONE out of their own reality...

and to place us in this collective reality.
where everything is externalised.

they have us looking out of the window,
when we should be focused on whats inside the room.

in the externalised world, there could be a billion of us,
all with the same ideals... but we'll never be in our position of strength.
becuase we arent connected to our inner world.
we are severed from the source of our power.
so there will never be any real power behind our intent.

what we need to do IMO

is to dismiss the authority of this external matrix....

reconnect with our inner selves (switch the power back on)
and then reconnect with each other to form our OWN collective.

as an aside i have often wondered what kind of a human i would be
if i had not been subjected to the indoctrination.

how powerful are we?

as it is, even if we get ourselves back to our original state..

we would still be like spiritual children.

cheers

[Anchor]

n
If anyone does not think that recent days have marked a change in energy and consciousness, then I recommend a review and rethink.

With respect (and I really do mean that) -- that was not my personal experience. I and another very close friend had a really dreadful day yesterday -- one which I would not want to repeat too frequently.

It's entirely possible that energies are increasing -- whatever that means! But like the wind picking up on a stormy sea, some ships may be propelled faster if their crew is adept and the sails are set well -- while others threaten to capsize, or even founder completely. I don't see any evidence that there'll be an easy ride in the years ahead. In my opinion, we're nowhere near out of the woods yet, and to believe otherwise may be to walk straight into another well-designed trap.

There is reason for hope and opportunity (as I've said and written many times, I and many, many others wouldn't have come to this planet this lifetime if the game was terminally rigged) -- but the outcome is not certain, and it's a very long haul.

There is most certainly a gradually increasing rise of consciousness on the planet, but it doesn't step-change in one day. As I've also said many times, it'll take several generations to clear up the enormous mess that this planet is in, practically on the brink if not pretty much hanging over the edge.

I do believe it's recoverable... but only just. (Note that eminent ecologists like James Lovelock have stated that they disagree, and that they believe is simply too late.)

This is why I am so passionate about facing reality: we do not have the luxury of doing anything else. And it take a very great deal of courage and honesty to do that.

Thanks,

I do not actually think we are disagreeing.

It is hard to express what I mean by "energies" because it is hard to render my interpretation of a metaphysical concept that I do not even have a full and complete grasp of, into physical language that means the same thing to all readers. The effect as I see it is as you describe in your stormy seas analogy, which I liked. My interpretation of the moment is that things will happen quicker. It may be that the less skilled have a higher chance of being overwhelmed if they are not sufficiently well helped (or do not allow themselves to be).

I agree that it is certainly not to late.

[Freed Fox]

As I've also said many times, it'll take several generations to clear up the enormous mess that this planet is in, practically on the brink if not pretty much hanging over the edge.

This is one of the most important things that people never seem to get.
It has taken millennia for the planet to get into this state and to think it can be "fixed" in the space of one lifetime, in my opinion, is not plausible. I personally believe that if change is to be undertaken it will take at least a Century for norms, and from this generally accepted beliefs and behaviour, to alter. Maybe the various catalysts will push this along but I doubt it will happen quickly (ie it will be reactive instead of proactive).

You make a good point, but don't discount the massive potential that the internet itself opens up. It may not reach 100% of the world's population yet, but never before in our history did there exist a global network where communication can be instantaneous. When the printing press was invented, for instance, there came a period of relatively rapid change, and this was an advancement in mass communication on a much smaller scale.

[panopticon]

As I've also said many times, it'll take several generations to clear up the enormous mess that this planet is in, practically on the brink if not pretty much hanging over the edge.

This is one of the most important things that people never seem to get.
It has taken millennia for the planet to get into this state and to think it can be "fixed" in the space of one lifetime, in my opinion, is not plausible. I personally believe that if change is to be undertaken it will take at least a Century for norms, and from this generally accepted beliefs and behaviour, to alter. Maybe the various catalysts will push this along but I doubt it will happen quickly (ie it will be reactive instead of proactive).

You make a good point, but don't discount the massive potential that the internet itself opens up. It may not reach 100% of the world's population yet, but never before in our history did there exist a global network where communication can be instantaneous. When the printing press was invented, for instance, there came a period of relatively rapid change, and this was an advancement in mass communication on a much smaller scale.

G'day Freed Fox,

Well said and I agree completely.
I would count the Internet, and the unknown technology that will appear over the mid to long term, as one of those catalysts I was referring too.

BTW a good book that you might be interested in concerning how the human brain and associated patterns of processing information has been altered since the printing presses introduction is 'The Shallows (http://www.theshallowsbook.com)' by Nicholas Carr (big thank you to Bob Dean for recommending that one in an interview I heard him give).
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[nomadguy]

This conversation has sparked a thought I would like to share,

I feel we are at the beginning of something.
Starting out, lets face up to some of the smaller things ~ starting with issues you have going within your personal lives, then span outward.

In facing things some issues will appear very alarming.
But when you work up the will and face them, many of these tangles lose their fright-power and release your true path and/or abilities.

Moving out of 2012 and moving forward, this is my hopeful view.

Explaining that ~ through the facing of our responsibilities both on the individual level and as a collection of beings we can un-trap many of our strengths. So to get the ball rolling we can inquire into own selves first.

A question arises...
Is it of primary importance to Secure your own personal foundation?
If we can do that there will be a stronger "WE" to face the bigger things that effect us as a group.

I have noticed recently that if you look around this forum... or around in general in your own setting.
It appears quite noticeable that there is a great deal to argue about and that there is a great deal to make a fuss about and a lot to do and still more at the same time a lot of outside pressures pushing to distraction.
So we have no luxury to quarrel over things needlessly. I bring this us up as I too notice the pickup of emotional inertia.
It is my opinion that at a time like this,
We need to focus more and try our best to remain centered in our true intention. Although it does bother me greatly to see a valuable mind leave the forum, I caution the use of our intellects to the arguing into a fury. Whether on this or any other topic. Some things need to diffuse to be healed.

Adding that I don't agree with everyone on this forum in every instance... not one person... and I feel this is completely normal for anyone whom is spirited in what they think. I find that a lot of things people choose to share as abrasive, egoic, or and even a little rude and/or destructive.
But these are human traits that we all share and in some one else's eyes I am likely the same somewhere a long the way.
Luckily that is not the only thing going on.
I also find that there are great minds doing wonderful intellectual work here.
I hope Jake comes back. ~When he is ready to do so as he was a great contributor.
But for now I hope we can simply carry forward a better understanding of ourselves and our intentions.

I was a little hesitant to post this, however I feel there is a lot of energy attempting to push us all off track. So I am going to risk it. If I offend anyone, I am truly sorry.


http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbzdc5j0xm1qbp80ko1_500.jpg
hb4Rpjhlq2U

[DNA]

Tony, you write a lot of threads about spiritual topics. It seems to me like you're repeating a basic point over and over again, and that is, don't get caught in analyzing the hieroglyphics of a snowman, and don't try to actively do something but just be aware... Now it seems somewhat contradictive to me that you put so much effort into rewording and dissecting your ideas and actively publishing it all on the forum. Are you thus not actively trying to make a difference?


You have hit the nail on the head here for me Christian.
It seems to me Robert Anton Wilson's quote sums up spirituality at it's highest level which is
“Nothing of any importance can be taught. It can only be learned, and with blood and sweat.”
― Robert Anton Wilson (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/2918.Robert_Anton_Wilson)

So it is silly for someone to constantly keep trying to answer questions that have not been asked.
This is an exercise in oration, not conversation.

[4evrneo]

Oh my, I have to add my two cents. After being sick through the holidays and then reading this, I have to say I was initially disapointed and then at the same time not too suprised. My energies have been tossed around like a tree in a storm lately and I must have an innate panic button, which I react by stepping back and observing. To be honest I have been seeing this reactive energy for a month or so, all I can say is I hope Jake will come back.

Jake, if you read this, you have a warmth and special energy about you that I admire. I'm sure you already know that there are more reasons and more beautiful people here than the few that irritate us, to leave.

All is loved, by lil ole me :)

[avid]

Tony, you write a lot of threads about spiritual topics. It seems to me like you're repeating a basic point over and over again, and that is, don't get caught in analyzing the hieroglyphics of a snowman, and don't try to actively do something but just be aware... Now it seems somewhat contradictive to me that you put so much effort into rewording and dissecting your ideas and actively publishing it all on the forum. Are you thus not actively trying to make a difference?


You have hit the nail on the head here for me Christian.
It seems to me Robert Anton Wilson's quote sums up spirituality at it's highest level which is
“Nothing of any importance can be taught. It can only be learned, and with blood and sweat.”
― Robert Anton Wilson (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/2918.Robert_Anton_Wilson)

So it is silly for someone to constantly keep trying to answer questions that have not been asked.
This is an exercise in oration, not conversation.

I've carefully read loads of Tony's responses, and felt totally brow-beaten and marginalised if I didn't agree, and 'Tarka' is definitely in cahoots. So be it. Tony - put your actions where your mouth is and DO rather than command from your own-esteemed pedestal. You come across as a type of 'guru' not to be challenged - but you are just one of us - with idiosyncrasies and frailties. Please stop minimalising people who don't necessarily agree with you! I do enjoy your posts - mostly- but there are times when you cross the boundaries into being a wee bit of a bully!!! Nota Bene....

Let's get on with positivity and good-will, helping others when they need us, and sharing....
Looking forward to a better world in 2013 :-)

[Metaphor]

As a point of interest, haven´t anyone noticed that neither Tony or Tarka have posted any reply to this thread?
I am actually a bit disturbed bout this thread. Strange energies going on. Lots of tension. Could lead to something beutiful if handled properly.
As pointed out by some already, the written word is inferior when communicating ones inner world.
I would like to express som many things, and have so much to contribute. But it´s hard when words fail.

[ThePythonicCow]

As a point of interest, haven´t anyone noticed that neither Tony or Tarka have posted any reply to this thread?
Tarka the Duck replied in Post #51 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53486-The-effect-of-Doubt--and-after-post-9-Jake-asks-to-be-unsubscribed-&p=605101&viewfull=1#post605101).

[bram]

This thread seems to have no fixed topic, and a life of its own! Where is it leading, I wonder?

[Metaphor]

...for a while, I should have added Paul. But thank you. :-)

[CdnSirian]

"until you animate yourself with purpose, your world will look pretty much the same with each new sunrise. No winged serpent, cosmic collision, sword-wielding horse, or karmic butterfly will save you."

I just read this today and thought of this thread. It's from:

http://www.invertedalchemy.com/2012/12/waiting-for-sunrise.html which is a blog written by a very aware banker.

Thanks all above, as I forget to thank as I go through a thread. Apologies for that.

[Mike]

ive been away for a week so i missed all this. i have no wish to resurrect any drama, but i do feel compelled to say this: i'm a Jake fan. i'll admit, when he first arrived here i thought: who is this crazy guy with all the 'v for vendetta' quotes?;) but he really grew on me and i appreciated his presence, and also secretly wished he'd participate on the forum a bit more often. now i'm not so secretly asking him to come back. i don't have any dog in this fight, could care less whose fault it all is, but i hope you reconsider Jake. i can't speak for anyone else, but this idiot'll miss ya bud.

[kingmonkey]

I think tony's response to all this was in his new thread called beyond doubt on the 25th. As usual the response is erudite and typically buddhist.

Personally i found tony's posts to be annoying, BUT and i must stress i have nothing against Tony. Thats just my subjective experience.

Others do find them useful but for me, they are just not my cup of tea.

And i took them in that light, thanks but no thanks.

[greybeard]

I cant help but notice there has not been a single post from Tony or Kathie for quite some time.
Chris

[Curt]

Hopefully he's having some productive away time and will come back as and when he's ready.


I cant help but notice there has not been a single post from Tony or Kathie for quite some time.
Chris

[greybeard]

Jake has not surfaced either.
It would be a pity to loose three contributing members over what? !!!!
Fair enough Tony is not everybody’s cup of tea but there are many other posters here that one can read, discuss with, debate or just lurk.
Im not defending, criticising or judging --- just a bit sad.
This is an excellent forum with something for everyone.

Chris

[blufire]

I second greybeard’s post #124 . . . . .

I have been away from the forum for the most part for almost two weeks. I was more than stunned with this whole event.

Bill, I rarely question your actions but in this case I do have to say I feel there is more to this episode than meets the eye. Obviously this is none of my business other than the ripple effect it has caused throughout the forum of which I am a part of . . . . and that I consider Kathie and Tony very good friends and anchors for the forum.. I did not have any direct contact with Jake but always respected and appreciated his presence.

Bill, I will also have to say that I wish you would just come out with it.

What I mean is . . . I am mostly a watcher and listener on the forum . . . I don’t post that much. I do not really fit into any of the more defined groups or cliques on the forum or in my life outside the forum for that matter. And I am comfortable with this. I feel my (basically) unemotional attachment enables me to see things differently and perhaps clearer than most.

You have been alluding to many things the past several months. Very covertly and elusively imho. For me, your presence and involvement on the forum has changed dramatically over the past year . . . I felt this was mostly personal life events and managing your own personal journey . . . . but I feel there is much more.

I am a nuts and bolts kind of gal and become frustrated and irritated when I feel someone is ‘toying with me’ or ‘pussy footing around’ and I feel to a large degree this is what you have been doing for many months now . . . not to me personally but to the forum as a whole.

Are you waiting for more of us ‘to get it’ . . . . Are you waiting to see who is wise enough to interrupt your hints . . . . . Are you waiting to see who can put all the hints together to have an ‘light bulb’ moment?

You have mentioned several times that we who live in the States should move and specifically to Ecuador. But you give no actual valid reason.

You trigger on threads like The Chicago False Flag and astrid’s thread about Duncan and 2013. If you have more solid information from your numerous ‘insider type involvement’ then would you please just come out with it?

It is (one of) your hope and desires that we begin the generational work of cleaning up our mess here on our beautiful planet. Well, I personally have made very huge life changing decisions the past few years based largely on these pleas you have made and more importantly because this ideal sings loud and clear to my soul.

Well Mr. Ryan . . . . just like me I’m sure there are thousands that come to this forum who have rolled up their sleeves and are ready to have at it. . . . .and we are waiting and waiting to see which direction in which to go or to ‘hitch our wagon’.

Yes, there is much to do right here in my little mountain town and I am giving her the best go I can possibly muster. But I need a bigger goal in which to tie my little personal movement to . . . . if we are to begin this generational work on a planetary scale.

We on a personal single level can do good works but if we are not United on a direction with a foundation then that sweat equity has no real future generational planetary return.

I ‘get it’, the depth and breadth of this endeavor . . . . but my ‘get it’ from this forum is just about ready to ‘get up and go’. But perhaps like (it appears) Kathie and Tony I am not the type of soldier you or the initiative you (possibly) are a part of desire to have in the ranks.

We are big girls and boys and we don’t have much time (I feel) to find our footing on a planetary scale and ‘get er’ done’ or at least to get it started.

So if we here in the U.S. need to duck and cover would you please just let us know and be more realistic that we all can just up and move to Ecuador or even want to . . . . this is our home ‘come hell or high water’

There many things you have alluded to over the past year . . . . could you please just quit the alluding and spit it out? We have lost many many solid members of this forum over the last couple years and feel it is largely to this mushy milk toast foundation (imo) the forum has become.

We are here and ready to go . . . . just a bit of encouragement and direction would be helpful.

I have to go now and walk 200 acres of strip mined land and take soil samples to see what needs to be done to plant a vineyard next year and then convince The Bureau of Land Management of Virginia that this is a better way to reclaim ravaged land than planting kudzu.

[noxon medem]

..
-

There seems to be a possible
very positive side (effect) to doubt ...

Flow seems to be a key word ..

19883

- sorry , word sometime escape me ,
or so nn seem to allude me .
( somehow, lately . ).

So, here is another image :
( could be just for fun ..).

19882

..
-

[onawah]

It seems kind of funny that so many members have conjectured that Jake left Avalon due to posts from Pi'ne'al and/or Tarka.
Because as far as I am aware, we still don't really know why he left, and there could have been any number of reasons.
I tend to doubt that tempest in a teacup with Pi'ne'al/Tarka could have been the reason, unless it was a case of the final straw.
But I think Jake would probably have given some indication before hand if that had been the case...

[blufire]

It seems kind of funny that so many members have conjectured that Jake left Avalon due to posts from Pi'ne'al and/or Tarka.
Because as far as I am aware, we still don't really know why he left, and there could have been any number of reasons.
I tend to doubt that tempest in a teacup with Pi'ne'al/Tarka could have been the reason, unless it was a case of the final straw.
But I think Jake would probably have given some indication before hand if that had been the case...


onawah . . . . did you miss Bill's post #13 on this thread?

[onawah]

I did see that post, which I have copied here, but there is still, as far as I am aware, no absolute surety as to why Jake quit the forum, because he hasn't told us, and he is the only one who really knows.
The only thing we really know is the timing, which of course, leads to the the conclusions that most have drawn, but we still don't really know for sure what Jake's reason was for leaving Avalon.


-------

Dear Friends,

Shortly after his last post above, (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53486-The-effect-of-Doubt.&p=604664&viewfull=1#post604664) Jake asked Paul by private message to unsubscribe him from the forum immediately. Paul did so, assuring him by e-mail that he would be more than welcome to return at any time.

The e-mail bounced. As best I know, we have no way of communicating with him now, and so I very much hope that he will notice and read this post.

Jake was a credit to the forum, and was a great friend of many. He cared deeply about people's personal suffering. New members may not know that he was also a loved and respected member of the moderators team for quite a while.

My view of what has happened is this.


Dear Jake

When reading your post, I was reminded of how we know absolutely nothing of the day-to- day lives and actions of the person whom we are judging, and often base our opinions upon our own blinkered assumptions.

Thanks for the timely reminder.

Kathie

This post by Kathie is covertly hostile, carefully disguised, and was responsible for prompting Jake to leave. It had the effect of a carefully-wielded stiletto that kills but barely leaves a visible entry wound.

Members may be noticing that Tony (pie'n'eal) and Kathie (Tarka the Duck, who is his wife) often operate as a kind of tag team on threads. The way they work issues they have decided to promote is very borderline as far as forum protocols are concerned -- in my opinion. It's close to sockpuppetting each other's posts with an agreed agenda.

This has been clear for a while, and I have drawn the moderators' attention to this. Meanwhile, pie'n'eal is, also in my opinion, arrogant and over-intellectual, knows rather less than he believes he does, and misuses the forum to grandstand as a kind of self-appointed teacher. I feel strongly that the forum has lost out through this silly incident.

[crosby]

onawah, i agree with what you are saying. as far as i have been able to discern, there is no proof that this lies strictly at the hands of Tony and/or Kathy. it could be a culmination of many different things. i myself have not been participating here for many different reasons. not for any one specific response. i do not agree that there is a given 'tag team' going on. but this is just my opinion. of course they are going to be privy to the threads that they are both involved with, i feel that this is a natural state when a husband and wife are both members. i just do not see what some others do about kathies' response. i support everyone (nearly) here at avalon, and i am sure that there could be many different reasons why Jake decided to leave. i wish i knew him better, but it has been my experience that we never met often, so i support Tony and Kathy in this matter. i hope that everyone returns. sometimes, seeing the good instead of imagining the bad is what i do.
love to you all, warmest and strongest hopes of returns, corson

[Tony]

Happy new year everyone!


Some of us are the way we are, because that is the way we are. Everyone has a right to their say,
everyone has a right to their opinion, but that is only a reflection of what is going on in 'our' mind.

Ah! See... he's doing it again!

This year could be very tough for all of us, so a firm foundation mentally and spiritually is needed.
If we get easily spooked by others, we will wind up exhausted to say the least!
That is why ending Doubt, and going Beyond Doubt is so important.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53563-Beyond-Doubt.

If a point of view is unsatisfying, we need to find something satisfying.
If we condemn a point of view, we need to replace it with something better.

When replying in a discussion it is good to give as full an answer as possible,
so that others interested in the thread can get a better picture of what is being talked about.
I appreciate and am grateful to anyone who takes the time to explain what they mean,
even though I may not be easy to understand.

When we know what we are, and have no doubt, then we can no longer wobble.



All the best for the new year, love,
Tony

[crosby]

i hope i didn't wobble. welcome back. you have been missed!!!!!!! i hope tarka/Kathy is right behind..... love to you both!!! you are appreciated, you are loved, you are here, you are home. most humble apologies and welcomes!!!!!!
love, corson

no matter how arrogant you are!!!!!!!!!

[Tarka the Duck]

To whom it may concern

Until now, I have chosen not visit this thread, but I just inadvertently read Bill's original message. It's a shame that neither of us have ever been told of these concerns until now.

As these accusation were made in public, I feel it's only fair to request that each of the charges made against me is backed up with evidence so that I can avoid such a situation in future. Maybe a mod could PM me with details?

It's a new year and a new start: I wish everyone health and happiness in 2013!

Kathie

PS...and the only time I remember Tony and I working as a tag team was at a crowded wedding reception, when we acted seamlessly together to acquire a decent amount of nibbles from the buffet…:o

[shijo]

Happy new year To the Duck and Pieman(sounds like the name of a pub),Bodhisattvas appear in many guises according to the needs of the people.And what is the purpose of a Bodhisattva? Simply to relieve suffering and bring happiness to all beings.Iknow this is what is in your hearts and in the hearts of others here.regards Shijo.

[Pam]

Thank you pie'n'eal for living what you teach. You have brightened my day. pam

[gooty64]

Hi Tony,
I miss your threads.
There have been some really dark energies and entities flying around Avalon in the past month or so.
I hope you start posting again, and say Hi to the Mrs. from me,
Gooty-Alan

[gooty64]

This pure awareness he-the OP-said something about.

I have this pure awareness for about 30-90 seconds +or- upon awakening from sleep.

Why is it so fleeting? Within just seconds it fades and the story and the personal problems, daily details all emerge to fill the space that just moments before had been so empty and pure.

Is it just me or does anyone else's mind race with trivial junk and endless details and thoughts of the past/future etc?

Time to clean house

The good news is that I have been able to expand on the morning clarity (in spite of my dogs-lol). I journal right away and I meditate/remain still and expand on the wisdom/clarity from the "other world".

[soleil]

as a new member, i was just beginning to learn/notice how much of an asset jake was/is. damnit dude (im talking to jake here), with all the crap happening in the world, surely this is a much better environment to learn from eachother/teach eachother/be with like minds(for the most part). :)
i wish you'd come back. that is all i wanted to add.

[Wind]

Why hasn't Tony posted anything in weeks? This forum needs his witty humour!

[greybeard]

Why hasn't Tony posted anything in weeks? This forum needs his witty humour!
Yes I miss his vibrancy.
He is doing other things in his studio at the moment.
I like your avatar Star Seed--- Whirling dervish comes to mind.

Chris

[Freed Fox]

Why hasn't Tony posted anything in weeks? This forum needs his witty humour!

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?55013-I-don-t-see-pure-awareness-

EDIT - Sorry, just saw that you posted there... Oh well.

[Jake]

Paul, Ilie, Limor, Dennis, and all of my friends and family here at Avalon. I will try and make it through this post. I have just caught myself up on the many postings to this thread. I am no longer weeping uncontrollably,,, just crying a bit! I really had no idea that folks were paying attention. I am completely beside myself (OBE pun,,, sorry, had to. ;)) I am humbled by all of the expressions of support from my family here. Please forgive me for giving up! I hesitate to admit it, but I am human too!!! :) I have made many mistakes in my life, and I did not want to make any here at Avalon. I felt that if I would have continued to post on this thread, that I would have only been expressing myself through a body of pain and anger.

Over the years, Avalon has proven to be something that is very real! Much more than a simple internet forum site!! I have made friends here,,, real live friends!! I consider any conversation here at Avalon very sacred. I also consider that if a person has found his or her way to Avalon, then that person is exceptional, and deserves all of the attention and respect that anyone else commands.

I have not been the same since my parting! Not at all! I love you all!!! I cannot express that enough! Avalon is a part of me. I cannot change that! A very humble thank you to Bill. We are creating an amazing future!!! And I am thrilled to be a part of it... We ALL should be!

I apologize for dragging us all through this episode. It could have all been avoided if I had not jumped off the bridge... If I am forgiven (I know that I am,,, Avalonians are amazing) I promise to never leave again!! Or to post such challenging words for folks who may not be prepared for my level of interaction. I will be more prepared in the future!

Tony, I wish I had made the attempt to contact you with any personal concerns that I had regarding my doubts about your rantings. But that is what your thread was about from the beginning, no? Doubt?? Thank you for the humilliation!!! I think i, unwittingly, may have demonstrated the effect of doubt... There is no doubt except for SELF doubt! (and that is noones fault but ones own!!)

Kathie... please, no more sucker punches!! :) I will do my part to do the same!!!

Bill,,, I am sooo sorry that I made such an exit. The changes are occurring quite rapidly, and I am quite sensative to the movement of energies. You already know that! I feel that I could have handled this a bit different, and for that, I apologize... Avalon is making a difference in the lives of people... I stand as a testament to that!!!

Since the light was left on for me,,, I let myself back in!!!

Thank you to everyone for their support for me and Tony and Kathie....

I love you all!!!!!!!!!!

Jake... (I will see you in the astral,,,, but I SEE you either way!!!)

[araucaria]

Jake, it's really great to see you back.

As Jorr used to say, All is well :)

[Eram]

Good to see you posting again jake!

Welcome back :wave:

[Hermite]

What a nice post, Jake. Good to see you again.

:hug:

[Ultima Thule]

Finnish proverb about several famous artists of the beginning of the last century:

The guys are drinking heavily in a restaurant as one of them - Jean Sibelius, famous composer and conductor - realizes that he has to be in short time conducting an orchestra in St. Petersburg, Russia. He runs out the door, catches a train to St. Petersburg, conducts the concert, comes back in the restaurant several days later. He says something in the lines of:"Hi guys, I´m back". The others, still continuing at it(the booze), without at any point visiting their homes, make a joke on him "running through the door all the time and disturbing them..."

:couch2: Good to see you come through the revolving door!!!! Glad to be "disturbed". :)

UT

[ThePythonicCow]

Since the light was left on for me,,, I let myself back in!!!
Awesome !!!

[learninglight]

So so glad to see you back :grouphug:

sharon :)

[ulli]

Seeing you back here just made my day, Jake.

[Limor Wolf]

Jake ~ welcome back to the group of rowers, we are sailing in a vast ocean sitting in a small boat, our ways are unknown, the water is muddy and there is a little light, but we can only find our way if we are together in this. It is of a great kinship to make this journey together and it will be awesome to arrive together to our desired destination. Just so you know, there is no other rower like you, Jake.

With all the upheavals accompany us privetly and collectively I hope you are ok, there is not a day without someone opening a thread and sharing what is happening with them even roughly, it is a mixture of joys, pains, ups and downs. I am the one that in real life will remain silent, become withdrawn and in most cases run away. But from Avalon I am not running away, because there is a bunch of good, inteligent, honest and highly human people here that simply understand. This is why you were so missed, because you are definitely one of them.

:hug:

Me too. Very happy that you are back :-

As Paul said - Awesome!

[Gardener]

Awesome indeed.
:whoo:

[Dennis Leahy]

Huge grin!

Where is the huge grin emoticon?

:~)

I was just thinking about you, this morning, Jake! Great to see you back!

Dennis

[Jake]

Jake ~ welcome back to the group of rowers, we are sailing in a vast ocean sitting in a small boat, our ways are unknown, the water is muddy and there is a little light, but we can only find our way if we are together in this. It is of a great kinship to make this journey together and it will be awsome to arrive together to our desired destination. Just so you know, there is no other rower like you, Jake.

With all the upheavals accompany us privetly and collectively I hope you are ok, there is not a day without someone opening a thread and sharing what is happening with them even roughly, it is a mixture of joys, pains, ups and downs. I am the one that in real life will remain silent, become withdrawn and in most cases run away. But from Avalon I am not running away, because there is a bunch of good, inteligent, honest and highly human people here that simply understand. This is why you were so missed, because you are definitely one of those.

:hug:

Me too. Very happy that you are back :-

As Paul said - Awsome!

Thank you for everything, Limor. I could feel my Avalon family pulling at me through the ether. And I know that there are those who felt a bit of pain on my behalf. I thank you dearly! Avalon has inspired me to become a better person, mentor, learner, friend, family member, father, husband, etc. I have seen many amazing things in my short life as Jake. Some good, others,,, not so much... But I have never had an unending source of personal inspiration that I have here at Avalon. (My children are also such miracles). Bill made a conscious choice to shift from INFORMATION to INSPIRATION, and Avalon is unique in that respect, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Quite naive of me to attempt to turn my back on such an amazing movement in consciousness, due to a silly disagreement over words. A lesson that I will never forget.

I have left my body countless times. I have seen and experienced light beings from the physical perspective and I have experienced all sorts of phenomenon from the non-physical perspective. I have panicked and lost my way many times. I have woken from an Astral trance weeping and stuttering... I once broke a finger because i (instinctively) tried to put my hand through a wall. Sometimes my perspective between the physical and the non-physical get entangled and difficult to understand... Sometimes, I do not know the way back!!

My point is,,, I have found something here at Avalon that inspires me to stand in my power in such a way that it is effecting things in the non-physical... This is a profound discovery!!! A guy like me tends to lament being human! But I have discovered that being human is the only way I will learn what it is that I need to learn before I will continue on!!! We are a unique species. Any sentient soul that decides to incarnate as a human, to help raise the vibration of the planet, is in for a shocker!!! It is being human that will raise the vibration of the sentient. And it is by way of love and inspiration. A powerful combination. With all of that said,,, it is inevitable that we find ourselves here at Avalon. Bill, you are a genius. Or, very well inspired. ;)

Thank you, Limor. You are loved!!! :grouphug:

Dennis,,, :bounce: (close enough)

[ThePythonicCow]

Where is the huge grin emoticon?
http://www.fusioninvesting.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/big-grin-emoticon.gif

[Sierra]

Aw Jake! I'm so glad! Now you give your current email address to Bill/Paul so this can never happen again... :hug:

Love, love, love, Sierra :kiss:

[Jake]

Aw Jake! I'm so glad! Now you give your current email address to Bill/Paul so this can never happen again... :hug:

Love, love, love, Sierra :kiss:

Of course,,, I have missed you too! big hug!

[Star Tsar]

Welcome back home Jake!

:high5:

[passiglight]

inevitable tribulations tremble terrans :-)))

Jake you are such an inspiration,,,,,,,,(did ya see my big flooosy) lol

Cosmic Love

[Reinhard]

Jake, you weren't really 'gone', were you??!!! ;)
Anyway, a warm wel(l)come back!!

[Jake]

Jake, you weren't really 'gone', were you??!!!

As it turns out,, NO! I can never leave Avalon... My destiny lies within the idea of the awakening of souls,,, Of course, my place is here!!! With you!!!

[sirdipswitch]

Hey JAKE!!!

Reinhard, just came over and posted on my thread that you were back, so just had to come over throw out my Welcome mat for ya too. cc.

Great to see you return to the "Incrowd", of the net. cc.:wizard:

[Bill Ryan]

------

A brief update from me, probably appropriately on this thread.

The moderators were unanimous that they'd be delighted to welcome Jake back on their team. I passed on the invitation, and Jake has accepted willingly: he'll be on moderator duty in about a week or so.

I've written to him privately, but I'll say publicly here that I too am delighted that he's back where he belongs, and has seen with his own eyes just how well loved and respected he is on Avalon.

:)

[sheme]

Love rules! peace and love in abundance!

[Ol' Roy]

Jake is back! Awesome! Things are really looking up. His words of wisdom will greatly contribute to this forum. I can't express enough thanks to all the mods and administers on this forum! You all make my day!

[Davidallany]

Welcome back home Jack. We missed you.

[Dah]

... :jaw: Jake, party time?

[Sunny-side-up]

Re: The effect of Doubt (and after post #9, Jake asks to be unsubscribed)
Jake is back! Awesome! Things are really looking up. His words of wisdom will greatly contribute to this forum. I can't express enough thanks to all the mods and administers on this forum! You all make my day!

Hi Jake not seen you in action yet, Welcome back and Love.

[Gardener]

I somehow managed to miss Bill's post on Jake becoming a moderator, that's awesome congrats and ty for accepting.

which brings me to the amount of noise which is sliding good posts off the 'new posts' area quicker than some of us can keep up. :) I love to hear from everyone but sometimes the signal really is buried too fast.

------

A brief update from me, probably appropriately on this thread.

The moderators were unanimous that they'd be delighted to welcome Jake back on their team. I passed on the invitation, and Jake has accepted willingly: he'll be on moderator duty in about a week or so.

I've written to him privately, but I'll say publicly here that I too am delighted that he's back where he belongs, and has seen with his own eyes just how well loved and respected he is on Avalon.

:)