Demands for evidence continue on Duncan O'Finioan thread

[we-R-one]

[ Mod-edit: The first 14 posts in this thread began life on the thread Just in from Duncan, for those who follow his work. "2013 ... A New Year, or a Nightmare ...pt 1 " (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53702-Just-in-from-Duncan-for-those-who-follow-his-work.-2013-...-A-New-Year-or-a-Nightmare-...pt-1). The demand by some posters for evidence, statistics, or explanations from other posters had successfully derailed the Duncan thread. These posts were 14 posts in a row that had nothing much to say about Duncan's comments, rather almost entirely dealing with the demands, and the reaction to the demands. - Paul. ]

===



Very concerning that you won't answer the question Amzer Zo....

That's Amzer's right, we-R-one. We don't get to choose where other's focus their attention. Expressing annoyance at someone else's choice risks coming across as badgering, which can create a distracting emotional cross current to the main topic(s) of discussion on a thread.


I want answers enfoldedblue, cause something isn't smelling right and all the alarm bells are going off. IF people are going to use stats I want to know the source, pure and simple.

Ditto ... :)

Then I say his stats aren't legitimate if he's not going to divulge the source. People are allowed their opinion, but when the supposed "resident scientist" as he's been called, can't provide the source of his stats, I see that as a huge problem. This is the second time I believe there has been reference to these stats on this forum...If they're legitimate "super", than lets divulge the source.

You see what's concerning is we have a scientist here that many like to use as a source. What he's saying to me is that the work of other scientists isn't applicable and that I'm suppose to take his word for the stats that he's provided without a source. And "pssst", his response on post #114 is not an answer.

Getting to the truth is not badgering. If people are going to quote stats, then they should be expected to divulge their source if they want their claim to be accepted. And since two people have now quoted these stats, to me, than surely, they're getting the info from somewhere. So if they're confident in divulging the info, there should be no problem in sharing the source, should there?

I'm asking for the source to be provided, or I'm crying fowl. "The Solutions" thread has legitimate science, and why the "resident scientist" doesn't support the studies on that thread, especially when one of the organizations was brought to my attention through him, ....well what can I say.....something is very, very wrong. And when the reasoning behind him not wanting to support scientific studies, is based on stats that he can't provide the source for......welll sh*t howdy, we have a problem, imo?

Total crap! I'm gonna call 'em out. Haven't we had enough bunk? And if that's not acceptable, then I will gladly leave this forum, but I think enough know my intentions and stance to know that I'm all about the getting to the truth....just sayin. This is nothing personal.

Let the record show, as of this moment, no source has been provided and therefore, the proposed stats are rendered unverifiable. Just my opinion.


The stats?

Plain observation: where are we now and in what state?

2000 years of Christianity;

2500 years of Budhism;

10,000 years of invoking various gods and ancestors;

Back to: Where are we now?

Has any of it ever worked to change the "where are we at, now?"

[we-R-one]

PS I will glady remove part of my comments from post #120, if a proper source can be provided........

[Flash]

Yep, ...... I was kinda thinking the same thing, but didn't want to say it for fear of backlash as Music mentioned in an earlier post......it appears that her opinion seems to supercede others....I don't get it.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Sigh...so many conversations going on at once......oh by the way, in case anyone was following....still waiting for an answer from the "resident scientist"......

it is just when there is direct individual attacks, judgments or other comments that are clearly negative towards one person, this has to stop for the thread, and i would personnally say evolution towards a sustainable earth, to have this work.

Reread the posts in this optic, you will see.

Edit:

Usually stats are easy to find on google. So i thought if Amer Zo does not supply the stats, I will find them and supply, this stats topic will be over, and I want to know anyhow. So I read Amer Zo posts and tried to find the stats.

What I found is that these are not statistics. There cannot be any specific sources since they are what is called in research "common knowledge".

When we know history, we know that monotheism started around 2,000 years ago.
we also know that Buddhism started 2,500 years ago and is the proponent of meditation (although Indian religions are much older and probably did use meditation)
We know that prior to monotheism, the Greeks, Roman, Egyptians, Hitites, Maya, name it were praying and giving offers to multiple gods. (in Fact maya never had monotheism).
And this is what Amer Zo gave in a later post, as shown below.

There is no stats to give because this are not stats, they are history, years in human history.


What I found is this:



Has any of the above ever worked?

2000 years of prayers to that one god?

2500 years of meditations?

10,000 years of prayers to various gods to ending slavery and suffering?

Time to clearly discover the actual target and the actual, effective, efficient methods to do away with it.

The this

Looka here for a good synopsis of what Duncan is expecting to occur in the course of 2013: Chicago: Next Big False Flag?

then this


Have 10,000s of years of denial ever helped this planet and ALL her inhabitants get out from under the yoke of its controllers?

See post # 89 above.

then this

Enjoy your impressions!

Do visit Chicago: Next Big False Flag? Since it is always better to consciously confront what's about than let it unconsciously control one and, since you are a proponent of "we are all one" then, at some unconscious level, you have some buried knowledge of what's cooking.

then this


The stats?

Plain observation: where are we now and in what state?

2000 years of Christianity;

2500 years of Budhism;

10,000 years of invoking various gods and ancestors;

Back to: Where are we now?

Has any of it ever worked to change the "where are we at, now?"

Psssttt... I did answer, see post # 114 above.

then this


Meanwhile and for those same amount of years the "Programming of a Planet" and its 3D equivalent of fostering satanic mind-controlled zombies have been stealthily and relentlessly at work and expanding = "Where we are at, now."

Hence my Post # 9 conclusion:




Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
[...]

Time to clearly discover the actual target and the actual, effective, efficient methods to do away with it.
Unfortunately, this unravelling of the programming cannot be done "en masse" but only on an individual basis... and for that I'll refer the reader to 9eagle9 posts or Truman Cash's thread as well as the Horus Ra thread or Steve Richard's thread.


I must add that something has really gotten into that thread that is bizarre. My gosh, 9Eagle9 is right. Whatever should not be talked about following the manager of the planet is being disrupted.

This is the third most probably involuntary personal attacks in one thread, from 3 different people.

Open your eyes guys to what is happening, right now, right here. Where is the heart???

[Arrowwind]

I call it as I see it.... and Im waiting for a reply from Carmody.

[ThePythonicCow]

Getting to the truth is not badgering.
That depends on how it's expressed. We're all trying to get to the truth ... we should each make an effort to distinguish between our own view of what we're up to, and how it appears to and affects others.

[we-R-one]

Show me the source....show me the source....

[modwiz]

http://astrobioloblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/spockfascinating.jpg

[Flash]

Show me the source....show me the source....

Please read my edit post 122. There is no stats, those are human history dates they are not stats and are what is called in reseach "common knowledge" for which precise sources do not exist, because the knowledge is everywhere.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


http://astrobioloblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/spockfascinating.jpg

LOL absolutely

[modwiz]

Yep, ...... I was kinda thinking the same thing, but didn't want to say it for fear of backlash as Music mentioned in an earlier post......it appears that her opinion seems to supercede others....I don't get it.



In the marketplace of ideas, the good fruit sells.

[we-R-one]

Yep, ...... I was kinda thinking the same thing, but didn't want to say it for fear of backlash as Music mentioned in an earlier post......it appears that her opinion seems to supercede others....I don't get it.



In the marketplace of ideas, the good fruit sells.

Not when her comments aren't backed by science. Her stance is the same as Amzer Zo....UNVERIFIABLE, and only an opinion. She made the same attempt to debunk "The Solution" thread with no legitimate sources. Please see here, though I'm sure you all ready have: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53497-And-then-there-s-silence...&p=607179&viewfull=1#post607179

Have a super sparkley day!

[music]

Yep, ...... I was kinda thinking the same thing, but didn't want to say it for fear of backlash as Music mentioned in an earlier post......it appears that her opinion seems to supercede others....I don't get it.



In the marketplace of ideas, the good fruit sells.

No, the shiny fruit sells. It's probably GMO, laced with insecticides, and of little nutritional value, but it appeals to the ego to have a shiny apple, rather than Joni Mitchell's spotty apple.

[ThePythonicCow]

I must add that something has really gotten into that thread that is bizarre. My gosh, 9Eagle9 is right. Whatever should not be talked about following the manager of the planet is being disrupted.

This is the third most probably involuntary personal attacks in one thread, from 3 different people.

Open your eyes guys to what is happening, right now, right here. Where is the heart???

Indeed - bizarre - well said - thanks.

[we-R-one]

Show me the source....show me the source....

Please read my edit post 122. There is no stats, those are human history dates they are not stats and are what is called in reseach "common knowledge" for which precise sources do not exist, because the knowledge is everywhere.


That's exactly my point Flash! Thank you for your efforts! I think you might not be understanding what I'm getting at, but that's ok.

[Hervé]

Show me the source....show me the source....

Please read my edit post 122. There is no stats, those are human history dates they are not stats and are what is called in reseach "common knowledge" for which precise sources do not exist, because the knowledge is everywhere.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


http://astrobioloblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/spockfascinating.jpg

LOL absolutely

Thank you Flash,

It definitely appears like some people are totally blind to the fruits of observation. Presuming that, at least, some observation has taken place... which may be too optimistic.

[ThePythonicCow]

This thread is reopen for business. It's origins are explained both in a Mod-edit to Post #1 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53749-Demands-for-evidence-continue-on-Duncan-O-Finioan-thread&p=608010&viewfull=1#post608010) above, and in Just in from Duncan, for those who follow his work. "2013 ... A New Year, or a Nightmare ...pt 1 " (Post #117) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53702-Just-in-from-Duncan-for-those-who-follow-his-work.-2013-...-A-New-Year-or-a-Nightmare-...pt-1&p=608054&viewfull=1#post608054).

[modwiz]

Yep, ...... I was kinda thinking the same thing, but didn't want to say it for fear of backlash as Music mentioned in an earlier post......it appears that her opinion seems to supercede others....I don't get it.



In the marketplace of ideas, the good fruit sells.

No, the shiny fruit sells. It's probably GMO, laced with insecticides, and of little nutritional value, but it appeals to the ego to have a shiny apple, rather than Joni Mitchell's spotty apple.

Well, I only buy organic fruit and it has to smell like what it is. You have a valid point with the majority. It makes me want to cry. :drama:

[we-R-one]

Here's my problem and why I'm pitching a fit in regards to this situation. Often I'm seeing too many opinions passed as fact when there's no substantial data to back what the poster is declaring, as if getting to the truth is not confusing enough, and I'm tired of it. This happened to me recently when a "popular" poster took my concept and twisted my words to fit their agenda and tried to pass the information as fact, when the thread they were referencing was littered with legitimate science which they refused to acknowledge as was apparent in their response. So I am and will continue to call "bull" when I catch this taking place. Driving the point further, because many of the readers do not necessarily understand the context of the material, moderators included, my concern is they're being fooled by the poster's comments. This is not meant to be a slam, it's meant to open your eyes a little wider and recognize what's going on, nothing more. There's a ridiculous amount of material on this forum and unless someone participates 24/7 it's almost impossible to keep up, so I do understand that dilemma.

In conclusion, if there's legitimate science that backs the material being discussed, I would hope that the reader would take that into consideration and there-by recognize the poster's comments as just that, comments and not fact, which we're all obviously allowed to do. IMO if a poster is going to list data it would be wise to include the source, especially if they happen to catch me frequenting that thread, lmao, because if it's relevant I will ask as should others.

Again, IMO, if there is not a legitimate source to back the data that one might be proposing as fact(and we know sometimes it's not always legitimate), we can't consider the material to be relevant, and personally in my mind, then why the hell would you even post it? If you do post it, a disclaimer would make sense to me clarifying that the information could be "iffy".

There is nothing baffling or "fascinating" about what I'm requesting. It's basic common sense. I'm not trying to beat up a fellow forum member, this is not meant to be personal, but it is concerning to me that someone who has been noted to be the "resident scientist" seems to be ignoring legitimate studies, and I want to know why. It has nothing to do with being right, I'm just trying to get to the truth. And what I'm seeing is not making sense in the least, which is why I'm bringing this issue to the forefront.

PS I am all ears for explanations and I have no problem changing my stance if legitimate info is introduced.

[Belle]

I've just got to ask...what do you consider legitimate science?

There are many 'proven', 'legitimate', 'scientific' conclusions (many found in highly regarded 'scientific' journals) that I don't believe for a second...information has a way of getting skewed and twisted to serve a purpose...and imo we are not among the privileged few who get the truth.

Why do you value it so highly?

[Shade]

The 'stats' that you asked for referencing weren't stats, they were just regular pieces of common knowledge and about things common enough that most people can see that it isn't quite right anyway (monotheism has been around since the old testament which goes back further than 2000 years.. I'm not an expert but I think I can say that makes sense). Those particular words are meant to be more a poem or a philosophical statement about something rather than a claim to facts... it doesn't need referencing.
Things which need referencing are genuine stats or study claims or scientific facts. And yeah ask for those cool but these particular ones, I would not agree that referencing is required.

[ThePythonicCow]

There is nothing baffling or "fascinating" about what I'm requesting. It's basic common sense. I'm not trying to beat up a fellow forum member, this is not meant to be personal, but it is concerning to me that someone who has been noted to be the "resident scientist" seems to be ignoring legitimate studies, and I want to know why. It has nothing to do with being right, I'm just trying to get to the truth. And what I'm seeing is not making sense in the least, which is why I'm bringing this issue to the forefront.
You've made your point ... again and again and again.

Your point is not so much more important than the rest of the discussion that you get to pitch a fit until your demands are met.

Make your point, succinctly, then leave it be for a while. You may or may not persuade others to agree or respond as you demand ... that's their call. Do not derail threads trying to brow beat others into submission. Those who are unable to show this much respect for their fellow forum members don't belong here.

... and if it isn't personal, why do you keep referring to another particular member as the "resident scientist"? I don't know where your use of that phrase began, but your repeated use of it has taken on a mocking, and quite personal, tone.

[Shade]

I've just got to ask...what do you consider legitimate science?

There are many 'proven', 'legitimate', 'scientific' conclusions (many found in highly regarded 'scientific' journals) that I don't believe for a second...information has a way of getting skewed and twisted to serve a purpose...and imo we are not among the privileged few who get the truth.

Why do you value it so highly?

I agree with the importance of good science on here especially with the headline stating "where science and spirituality meet".
Manistream science is heavily peer reviewed which means that bullsh*t of nearly every single variety is weeded out. It is some of the best efforts that we have in understanding just how things work. No, we don't get the insider research and hence can't come to as good a conclusions as we might if we had all the information but so much of it is good. And there should be more science on here for sure I agree, and more referencing and such. it is important to know where info comes from. I see a lot of prejudice against science on here to the detriment of health at its worst.

[gigha]

One thing I found out in the playground

That is if a bully comes and demands answers

The best response is no answer...

[ThePythonicCow]

I agree with the importance of good science on here especially with the headline stating "where science and spirituality meet".
Manistream science is heavily peer reviewed which means that bullsh*t of nearly every single variety is weeded out.
Some of us have concluded that the peer reviews in main stream science weed out non-mainstream results, which has a weak correlation with what's bs results, especially when the results significantly support or undermine the interests of the bastards in power on this planet.

[SKAWF]

there would be no scientific evidence for this sort of thing.

mainly because its well out of the jurisdiction of scientific thinking.

if anything you will only ever get anecdotal evidence
and even then you may only find it in the realm of the occult.

science has yet to prove the existence of the soul,
and until it does.... as far as science is concerned... the soul does not exist.
does that mean i should also not accept the existence of the human soul?

does that mean that history is wrong?

i dont think it does.

i think science is so limited becuse it will only recognise that which can be proven

it is the authority on a tiny sliver of infinity.

and thats the box they try to keep us in. imo.

cheers

[Arpheus]

This may end up turning to be an interesting thread,as long as weep keep a healthy and intelligent discussion going,gonna keep an eye on this one to see how it develops...

[Bill Ryan]

-------

I've just woken up to read this new thread. Not yet read all of the new post about this on the forum, in various places.

A friend also wrote to me overnight to ask my opinion. Here's my reply:




I agree that Duncan is exasperated with the New Age community and its disempowering, often wishful-thinking belief systems (e.g. about ascension, or that all the insiders were just about to be arrested) -- etc. As I think you know, I always fully agreed with him about all his observations.

The main difference between Duncan and myself is his presentational style: on occasions he seems to operate more like the enraged Incredible Hulk than the leader and teacher which he is. But the Hulk was a good guy... and did save the day for the Avengers team.

:)

And there's no doubt, for me, that Duncan's awareness serves him well. In my opinion, if Duncan calls it, we should listen carefully.

On the Avalon forum, there are quite a few requests for evidence of his claims. Here it is:

1) From Dave Hodges of The Common Sense Show (a very measured and well-written article):

Part One:
http://thecommonsenseshow.com/2012/12/25/ex-feds-and-wall-street-execs-are-going-into-hiding-why

Part Two:
http://thecommonsenseshow.com/2012/12/27/why-ex-feds-and-wall-street-execs-are-going-into-hiding

2) This information (as the Dave Hodges states) dovetails closely with the new Doug Hagmann ('Rosebud') information which emerged a few days earlier. Links to that are here. Must read also.

Part One:
http://homelandsecurityus.com/archives/7305

Part Two:
http://homelandsecurityus.com/archives/7310

It all fits with known scenarios and situations. This is what I was expecting earlier this year (2012), but which may now have been deferred till 2013. So far so good... but all this may still be on the cards.

Note that Alex Jones also interviewed Doug Hagmann two days ago:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvWBD7nG7qM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vvWBD7nG7qM

[robinr1]

I agree with the importance of good science on here especially with the headline stating "where science and spirituality meet".
Manistream science is heavily peer reviewed which means that bullsh*t of nearly every single variety is weeded out.
Some of us have concluded that the peer reviews in main stream science weed out non-mainstream results, which has a weak correlation with what's bs results, especially when the results significantly support or undermine the interests of the bastards in power on this planet.



this times 10000000000..science is no different than any other topic.......the public is told what "they" want us to know and nothing more

[WhiteFeather]

A great thread that Bill Ryan posted upon joining Avalon.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?7225-Welcome-to-Avalon-


Dear New Avalonian,

Welcome to the Project Avalon Forum. We sincerely hope you enjoy your stay.

The principal purpose of the Avalon Forum:

To encourage and support positive, constructive, and high quality dialog and networking with the goal of creating the future on Planet Earth for ourselves and our children that we want to experience.

This forum is a little different in a number of ways:

•First of all, you had to be invited to be here.
•A lot of the forum is hidden to non-members (including this message). There are some readable areas, but most require you to be a member to not only see them, but to post as well.
•Membership is tiered. This means that the more you post and the longer you've been a member, the more you can do.
•Community Groups can now be found on the top menu under Community > Groups.
What happened to the original Avalon Forum?

As happens with many forums, what we now call 'Avalon 1' descended into an uncomfortable degree of chaos. When this happens in a public place (whether physical or virtual), it's always the actions of individuals that perpetrate that.

Much of the time - but not always - this is deliberate. What we can say is that a number of members there were not at the same spiritual and intellectual level and understanding as we hope and believe you are - hence your invitation.

A way forward needed to be found that allowed the message and vision that this forum represents to be preserved and supported by members who are fully in support of all the principles we espouse.

What is that Message and Vision?

In creating this new forum, we're encouraging all members who've been invited here to:

•Start or participate in community projects that will radiate out to the members' communities - or
•Post information and participate in regards to awakening; spirituality; healing humanity; galactic and earth changes; '2012' (whatever that may mean!); geopolitics; new science; hidden history; ETs and disclosure; what we are not being told by those who might wish to control us - and much else.
Please be proactive in real time in the true spirit of Avalon. Many of you already do, of course. However, we'd like you all to share more about these activities as it will lead to others becoming awakened.

So...

Please do us and this forum proud - and show us the spiritual beings we know you all to be.

Please always remember that this is in essence a private party. We value quality, not quantity. We don't aspire to be like Above Top Secret or Godlike Productions (and there are good reasons for that). This private party is a place of learning, awareness, respect, intelligence, community and fun.

We're delighted to have accepted your membership application on the basis of what we believe we understand about you.

Please understand that if we come to understand other aspects which were not apparent when we first started to get to know you, then we may politely ask you to leave.

Please see this clarifying post for a little more about this. As of 19 January 2011, we're regarding all new Avalonians as PROVISIONAL MEMBERS, who we look forward to upgrading after your first few posts once we have a good idea who you are, what your values are, and how you communicate and relate to others.

If we do ask you to leave, we intend no disrespect - and do not intend conflict. It would just be that the moderator team, working closely together, would have reached the decision that the invitation may have been a mistake and that you may be more satisfied communicating and contributing elsewhere.

A note about the one aspect of the forum which is more controversial than any other: that of channeled messages. The moderator team, fully supported by myself, have made the decision to post a disclaimer on threads on that particular subforum.

My personal opinion, which is fairly well-informed, is that many channeled messages offer many nice words and plenty of saccharine hope - but little of substance and in all probability (I'm afraid) little that is real.

There are deep, dark games played here, and there is much deliberate deception both on the physical (electromagnetic) and astral levels. We encourage intelligent inquiry - and discourage proselytizing and anything that smacks of promoting belief systems of any kind.

And in all that, we're all committed to discovering the truth. My personal purpose is to support that in happening - wherever that leads.

*******

To see the rest of the forum and enable you to post, simply reply to this thread as acknowledgement.

The system will detect the reply. Within 10 minutes, your title will automatically change to Avalon Junior Member and you will be activated.

And for those of you who were long-time senior members of the original Avalon, you'll probably find that you will be manually upgraded to Senior Member by one of the team in due course. I would also encourage you to re-post here your best threads from Avalon 1 so that the new forum may enjoy them. We welcome that.

Once again, welcome aboard. Post your reply, and we'll see you on the other side.

Bill Ryan and the Project Avalon Forum Team

[Shade]

The prejudice that I face in the alternative community because I am a scientist is exactly the same as the prejudice I face in academia because I am esoteric. In each field there is intense and ugly prejudice against the other side. For a moment, consider that there is a place, in the middle where they do not cancel each other out in an exclusive fashion but they complement each other, fitting together like the two hemispheres of your brain. The rational and the art, the male and the female, the hard and the soft, the mind and the heart all working together. That's what this is about really - left-right brain hemisphere unity and harmony. It is not science that is the problem not is it the 'alternative things' which are the problem - it is people. Some say it's not the person it's the things they do that are bad or whatevah.. I don't subscribe to that. in my philosophy, it's not what, it's how and who. Science is just a tool, a thing; rationality. Spirituality is art, and is the heart or irrationality. Each without the other, as in if it denies the other is unwhole and in the polarity wars.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=19772&d=1356598570


And in truth... Science is not a conspiracy.... it is in the mainstream in academia - where the papers come from - just regular people investigating the universe with their whole passion and being.. they aren't paid or bribed to say things which exclusively support the people in power.. because there is enough regulative power from across the board to call people out on claims that are not backed up by proper evidence. Experiments must be repeatable by anyone who reads a paper so that anyone can do the experiment and see for themselves. A main principle of it is that it is accessible by the person who wants to see for themselves.

And another thing, academics are not stupid. Not much gets past them really, in their fields and by that I mean malpractice or misrepresentation of things or intentional hiding of the facts. I'm not saying that there isn't problems in it all, of course there is, just as there are in the alternative fields. What I like to do is read the papers in science that are encroaching on that axis between the spiritual and the scientific.. what science does in one of its brightest aspects is get there the hard way, step by grueling step. What Spirituality does is fly there, in the heart. They need to make friends, ok? Please try to be more accepting of science as it comes to you, in peace. it is not your enemy.

[sdv]

Historical Evidence for Buddha
(Siddhartha Gautama)


Posted: August 17, 2005

Relevance of the Historical Evidence for Buddha to Christianity:

The historical evidence for the life of Buddha will be briefly discussed in order to provide the reader with another example of documentation for a religious figure in the ancient world in addition to Jesus. As the reader will probably conclude, the historical documentation for the life and teachings of Jesus is far greater than the historical documentation for the life of Buddha, provided that the reader possesses a general understanding of the historical documentation available for the life and teachings of Jesus.

Historical Evidence for the Life and Teachings of Buddha:

Buddha, or Siddhartha Gautama, was born in North India sometime around 563 B.C.E. and presumably lived a long life, perhaps being about eighty years old when he died (AIHET:192).
“So far as we are aware, he didn’t commit anything to writing. Thus, all we know of Buddha’s teaching has come down to us from others. From the very beginning, though, both an oral tradition and a written tradition developed” (AIHET:212).
“Although the oldest available written Buddhist texts are relatively late, tradition assures us that the texts known as Nikayas contain an early and reliable record of the Buddha’s actual teachings, for immediately after the Buddha’s death a council of monks was summoned to recall and collect these teachings” (ASAP:193).
“Unfortunately, very little is known about Shakyamuni Buddha that we could call historical fact. Historical record keeping was not much practiced in those days, and his followers were far more concerned about preserving his teaching than with the details of his life-and, of course, that’s what really matters” (AIHET:192).
“I want to emphasize this point: Commonly repeated stories about the life of Buddha are the stuff of legend, not history” (AIHET:192).
“Various ancient sources give us information about the life of Buddha. The oldest and most important document is the Pali Canon. Committed to writing in the first century B.C.E., the Pali Canon is a carefully assembled collection of the then-existing scriptural works and traditions regarding Buddha. The accounts in the Pali Canon, however, are really nothing more than two commentaries that deal with two different parts of Buddha’s life. They give us only some basic facts” (AIHET:193).
“ The first complete biography of the Buddha was written in the first century C.E. by the poet Ashvaghosha. This work, known as the Buddha-Charita, is unreservedly mythical; the author was not interested in historical veracity. Many of the legends about Shakyamuni Buddha’s life are derived from the Buddha-Charita” (AIHET:193).
“Approximately four centuries after Buddha’s death, the first great effort was made to gather together the existing sources and determine, insofar as was possible, the true record of Buddha’s life and teaching. This scholarly and thoroughgoing work came to be known as the Pali Canon" (AIHET:212).
“Again, the story of Buddha’s life is much more the stuff of legends than of history. But it’s well worth surveying, however briefly. As you might expect, there are numerous variations to the legends” (AIHET:193).
SUMMARY:

1. The best attestation to Buddha’s life is based on oral tradition.

2. Actual written texts relating details about Buddha’s life and teachings are considerably late.
http://www.preventingtruthdecay.org/evidenceofbuddha.shtml



The Pāli Canon (Pali: Tipitaka) is the standard collection of scriptures in the Theravada Buddhist tradition, as preserved in the Pāli language.[1] It is the most complete extant early Buddhist canon.[2] It was composed in North India, and preserved orally until it was committed to writing during the Fourth Buddhist Council in Sri Lanka in 29 BCE, approximately four hundred and fifty four years after the death of Shākyamuni.[3][4][5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C4%81li_Canon

So, the first recorded documents about Buddhism supposedly date back to 29BCE, but I think the earliest preserved MS of the Pali Canon dates back to 15th century.

Academics do not all agree on dates. They study the use of language, epigraphical evidence and archaelogical evidence to try to pin down dates, and they disagree with each other!

Does it matter if Buddhism has been practised for 2500 years or for less than 2000 years?

Christianity? There are writings from about 200 CE about the religion that give us approximate datings, and there is also epigraphical and archaelogical evidence. Once again, academics do disagree about precise datings and all have their different methods of dating things precisely.

But, disagreements about precise dates does not mean that these religions do not exist and have not existed for a very long time.

Methinks we get drilled about dates when we learn history and do not get taught about how academics gather evidence and then come to conclusions based on that evidence, so we end up with very confused ideas about history.

PS Maybe humanity will move into a new paradigm where we change our perception of and relationship to time as something absolute and true, universally (no, what we experience on Earth is not universal time, but Earth time as we Earthlings have constructed it!

[Carmody]

I agree with the importance of good science on here especially with the headline stating "where science and spirituality meet".
Manistream science is heavily peer reviewed which means that bullsh*t of nearly every single variety is weeded out.
Some of us have concluded that the peer reviews in main stream science weed out non-mainstream results, which has a weak correlation with what's bs results, especially when the results significantly support or undermine the interests of the bastards in power on this planet.

I have direct experience with this.

To say that science rules out BS, is an INCOMPLETE analysis. limited analysis thus limited view thus limited answer.

The result is that the global flavor of the presented statement does not inherently have enough depth to apply to the reality that is indicative in it's existence.

That this statement:


I agree with the importance of good science on here especially with the headline stating "where science and spirituality meet".
Manistream science is heavily peer reviewed which means that bullsh*t of nearly every single variety is weeded out.

Does not hold the water of the bucket that it pretends to be.

It is wholly incomplete and it will, by it's very nature, fool people who don't look at the world with any depth. Again... via that statement that has been quoted... much of the world's more simplistic thinkers can be led astray from truth.

Science was designed, right from the get go..to compartmentalize. To separate and to explore reality through engineering principles, which are immutable. As in DOGMA. Note the use of the word 'law' in modern science. Law, as a meaning, as an intent, as a subtlety of direction in a word and what it conveys, has no place in actual science. Law concerns social, cultural and societal norms on human behavior. It directly means the enforcement of societal ideas and emotions in behavior and actually has penalties, like banishment and/or death.

The word law is invoked in engineering, and engineering is a literal case of dogma.

Engineering is the opposite of invention.

Engineering is application of theoretical results that have been normalized for consumption.

There are no Newtonian laws. No law of thermodynamics, no law of anything in science. What there is, is theory that has been given to engineers as dogma that they are to build with ---and not violate.

All these theoreticians of the past, would be horrified to think and know that their works have been dogmatized into immutable laws, which they where never meant to be. Never. They have to be theories and evermore mentioned only as theories, if not, they'll slip into being dogma, due to the human mind and how it works. see what is going on, here?

(if one ever finds the name of the person who first began to turn theories into laws, you'll probably find a secret society member, who, by the way..are most certainly stalking and clouding the highest halls of academia. I know one theoretical physicist, who upon having his final thesis being reviewed and thus his degree hinged on this..his three physicists on the panel....all three signed to him that they were ALSO Freemasons.)

Science has been conflated with engineering, due to the modern version of science being borne out of a teaching and high level scholastic endeavor called 'the German school of thought'.

What this was, is a high level physics school or mind set of teaching that was all about 'rote learning', and not to teach how to open minds into exploration. That the physics and all that was being learned, was done at high speed, intensely,and does not deal with the point that it is ALL THEORY and NOTHING is immutable. That engineering safeguards for the build of things (to build, not question and take chances in building things), was purposely conflated with theoretical exploration.

This is interesting, in that this core aspect of alchemy and all the old sciences and methods of teaching began to go away at the introduction of this new teaching methodology. And that this new methodology and such a modern(ish) 'university type atmosphere' was borne into existence not a few years and not a few miles from the origins of the Bavarian Illuminati.

So, it took the modern revolution of open scientific exploration......and turned it into DOGMA.

And thus, over the past 3 centuries, scientific methods in exploration where turned into dogmatic myopic blinkered exercises in Dung Beetle 'ball of ****' pushing.

Real science concerns itself with evidence. First comes observation, then comes hypothesis, then comes test, then comes theory.

But First and foremost, inescapably so, comes observation. And observation, as an origin point -- cannot be dismissed. The canard of 'observation bias' (aka -'expectation bias') is used negatively to dismiss those who see things that are there, things that does not fit modern ideas on 'scientific LAW'. The whole thing is circular and headed for the ditch. But it fools most people.

Back to the dung beetle of modern science. If one starts from a mental orientation premise that is built on the idea and logic of 'laws', then it is going to be difficult in such an environment to get anything that is truly new, to move forward, or exist, at all. Such a thing is in open opposition the self evident fact (ipso facto) that the new will overrun the old, in concept and reality. This is a known premise on the fundamentals of scientific exploration in Theories and observation.

For example, one example of near hundreds.... the 'laws of thermodynamics' are based on carnot's works and carnot's works are Newtonian in analysis, and fail completely in the face of quantum function.

What you will get, is people who have shoehorned observation and data INTO Carnot's works in order to try and get 'laws' of thermodynamics to fit the data. Yet it does not work. What they engaged in was a thing called 'negative proofing' in their mental outlook and mindset. Bias, plain and simple. Editorialization. The same thing that happened to Maxwell's original works on electromagnetism, which are inclusive of FTL and other effects. Heaviside edited that out and then Lorentz finished the job. Educate yourself on such subjects. just a subtle push and a word here and there..and truth in science and reality is blocked. Just. Like. That. (In the same way that other crimes have been pushed away and lost over time. like the people occupying Palestine hope to have happen, that their real and still current crime will be lost, in the mists of time. I mean, to the western world, Libya has already been forgotten.) (also, see how JP Morgan hired a scientist, Lorenz, to go around and be promoted -publicity tour- and then to replace all school and physics texts, in all libraries and halls of academia, anywhere in the world..for free..with Maxwell's theories..scrubbed of any capacity for FTL, anti-gravity, and over unity. Thus temporal and dimensional effects, as well. That all of this was scrubbed from the math. By JP Morgan, as an origin point, the Guy who took down Tesla, so people would remain in a controlled matrix.)

This is due to the entire enterprise of science having been invoked and thrust into the world based on a prevalence of linear type thinkers and dogmatic thinkers, and negative proofing thinkers being the core component of modern science.

All due to that interesting point of modern science being from the 'German school of thought', which erupted around the same locale and time as the Bavarian Illuminati, which was of ..Jesuit origins.

Thus, modern science was designed fro the ground up to be inclusive of and centered around people who don't really imagine ANYTHING. Linear thinking ground pounder types. Most dangerously, the type of mental outlook which is dogmatic in origins and view of externalization.

Back to the 'negative proofing' and what it means. What that means is that..if a proposed thing or situation does not fit the extant science, in any way, then it is dismissed. It is usually dismissed with a certain unrealized virulence.

Also, that linear minded negative proofing mindsets, are generally... ok, highly incapable in the area of mental self analysis.

But they can't see this, they can't understand it, so they are blocked from the knowing of how their own mindset--prevents the new.

To top it off, they've been compartmentalized, which is the other core aspect of the German school of thought. The modern version of the tower of babel where the people where divided in their languages in order to compartmentalize them into submission through the creation of ignorance between them. It nicely foments war, as an aside.

This compartmentalization further entrenches the core mind set of dogma and negative proofing and a limited mental reach. thus this kind of thinker came to dominate modern science, which, once again, is engineering of dogmatic 'scientific bulls', issued as laws.

And at that point, humanity's opening was effectively blocked.

Theoretical scientists understand that there is NO law, anywhere in science and in reality, and that every single theory that has been very wrongly called a law is open to questioning at every step and at every moment and that NONE of them is to be adhered to in the face of observation and data. NONE. Not a single one.

But it is difficult to realize such thing when one has been compartmentalized, like every single story of how modern politics and businesses is... and how every single story on black ops projects and work areas exist. 110% compartmentalization, in order to block anyone from having any sort of overview or complete picture.

This is why new science comes from outside of science and modern science is driving us into terminated ditches and dead ends, as it has laws.... and by definition......cannot change.

This is why new science comes from 'mavericks' and 'outside the box' thinkers, and even high school drop outs. crass people who don't realize there are rules and laws in that dogmatic and linear world of poorly realized un-emotionally developed people called 'scientists'. Scientists who are trained in an environment of engineering and dogma, as this is where their mindsets flourish best, which is why they where attracted to it in the first place. And they found a herd to be in, to travel in, to identify with.

And this limited view of modern science is incapable of seeing the trap that was erected, way back when, and took shape over the past centuries.

Another point, is that the black ops projects threw that dogmatic crap rightfully into the toilet... and went all the way on full exploration and exploitation of the clues found in the data and in the fringes...that modern science threw out in it's normalization of data, it's tossing out of things that did not fit theory. Theory which they had mislabeled and misinterpreted as laws.

And this is how the black ops projects and large corporations, military, and governments managed to secretly get 1000's of years ahead of the rest of the world in technology and theory.

I could go on for months, here. And I have.

[Strat]

I am a scientist

Nice! What's your field of study?

[CdnSirian]

There are seemingly conflicting voices on this thread, yet I see them as the many sides of the same coin.

All the viewpoints are important. All present truth.

Absolutes can be elusive...

[Rocky_Shorz]

PS I will gladly remove part of my comments from post #120, if a proper source can be provided........

stats on IMOs are tough...

we each learn and share what we know, if you would have asked me I would have said my head, and left it at that...

around here getting quoted by a News Source isn't the top of our priority lists...

this has been a rough Full Moon cycle, add the Holidays and most are ready for a vacation...

We're all good... http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif

[ThePythonicCow]

Theoretical scientists understand that there is NO law, anywhere in science and in reality, and that every single theory that has been very wrongly called a law is open to questioning at every step and at every moment and that NONE of them is to be adhered to in the face of observation and data. NONE. Not a single one.
A fine rant, Carmody (all of it, not just my randomly chosen quote.) Thanks.

I am reminded of why I had so much fun as a Unix guru and Linux kernel hacker working on leading (bleeding) edge hardware for 30 years.

The reality of what that hardware could do, and we intended it to do, kept changing so rapidly that any "law" more specific than Moore's Law (constant exponential increase in transistor density) could not survive more than a few years. One had to keep devising new theories, concepts, and rules of thumb. To do this successfully, one needed hands on experience and solid understanding from solder to connectors and packaging to instruction set architectures to compilers and language design to kernel system call API's to system library architecture to GUI human interface conventions, so that one knew, in one's gut, how arbitrary and malleable were the details in each of these layers, because one had, oneself, changed several of these layers, in ways that affected many other practitioners work and the resulting products.

Such times are transient. Soon the surviving details are solidified and canonized, within the framework of the power structure on this planet.

[ThePythonicCow]

Such times are transient. Soon the surviving details are solidified and canonized, within the framework of the power structure on this planet.
Therein lies one of the two fundamental reasons that I am here, now, on this forum, instead of on the Linux Kernel Mailing List.


The power structure was closing in on what I could accomplish of substantial interest, shaping what I was working on into the sort of computer that the NSA might use to track us human cattle on this planet (a specialized, narrowly focused and highly compartmentalized endeavor with narrow focus and dubious intentions.)
I was being poisoned in mind, body and soul in all the other ways that I had been ignoring. The ongoing project to poison humanity was getting to me as well. Unlike the few really brilliant geniuses who seem to advance their craft while tending to other aspects of their being, I had needed to and/or chosen to focus my more modest talents in one area, neglecting the rest.

It was time to put aside that focus and tend to the rest of me, if I wished to regain my health and lay a foundation for additional fruitful and beneficial endeavors in this life.

[Flash]

PS I will gladly remove part of my comments from post #120, if a proper source can be provided........

stats on IMOs are tough...

we each learn and share what we know, if you would have asked me I would have said my head, and left it at that...

around here getting quoted by a News Source isn't the top of our priority lists...

this has been a rough Full Moon cycle, add the Holidays and most are ready for a vacation...

We're all good... http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif

In fact, that the source material and references, when ask, would be a "it is me" answer means potentially two things:

Me is a pure idiot with such an inflated ego that it is laughable

or

Me is a true expert in his field, or a true thinker, in which case it becomes exceedingly interesting to converse with.

In Avalon, we have the second case much more often than the first.

[Warlock]

I encountered this same issue while part of another forum, which I still belong to. I do not spend much time there, simply because the level of open-mindedness and intelligence is on a higher level here.

The problem is that I can quote a source and then you can look for a source that says the opposite. So then, who is to be believed? Then I say "well my source has a Masters in such and such and has been in that field for such and such a time".
You retort that your source has a PHD and while they haven't been in that field for quite that long, they do have the education, and it goes on and on and on.

As regards personal experience, observation and just simply knowing someone who tells you what they know, how can that be discounted?
For example, if I knew William Cooper while he was alive, and he told me that this happened to him and he knew this and that, how can you say to me "Well show me"? I'm telling you what he told me. I'm telling you that he showed me a certain copy of a document and he kept it. Now, was my source in this example legit? Yes.
What if I gave you the information he gave to me, but refused to name him as the source? If I was trustworthy, you would probably believe, but what if you didn't know me? Then what?
And so it goes.............

Concerning personal experience and observation, I will tell you I have had an encounter with a demon. I won't go into details, but if you were not there, you cannot tell me that what happened was this or that. It was not 'this or that'. It was not my imagination. It was not someone playing a trick on me.
I have no evidence to show you concerning this experience. No audio, no video, no nothing. This event could not be re-created by a scientist in a lab, but no matter, because it happened in the real world, not a fantasy world of controlled conditions.

I think I'm done with my thoughts for now.

Warlock

[Rocky_Shorz]

I'm curious, how did you know it was a demon, have your ever heard of the red skinned dude Onyx met?

horns and everything fits the description...

if you looked up the word Demon in a dictionary, it would be this guy's picture...

but his reason for being here wasn't evil...


Pretty brilliant way to hide in plain site, tell everyone you're a demon, and no one will chase you... most won't even tell friends or family...

how would a local priest respond if you said you are being visited by a demon?

pure Genius...

[jackovesk]

Firstly, I'd like to state on the record, I am a fan of Duncan O'Finioan's...:yes4:

However, just having painstakingly listened to 2 Duncan O'Finioan - Round table discussions on Wolf Spirit Radio...

12/1/2012 & 12/28/2012

I must say, what absolute 'Jibberish'...:noidea:

It certainly is a worry, when people take all this stuff so seriously..!

It begs the question: Why..?

I can only talk on behalf of myself and my observations and have come to the conclusion...

Too many people, simply have (Too-Much) time on their hands...:yes4:

Take a leaf out of Duncan's message i.e. What are 'You' actually doing to effect change..???

What the hell is all the fuss about...????

Think about it...:yo:

[Selene]

Such times are transient. Soon the surviving details are solidified and canonized, within the framework of the power structure on this planet.
Therein lies one of the two fundamental reasons that I am here, now, on this forum, instead of on the Linux Kernel Mailing List.


The power structure was closing in on what I could accomplish of substantial interest, shaping what I was working on into the sort of computer that the NSA might use to track us human cattle on this planet (a specialized, narrowly focused and highly compartmentalized endeavor with narrow focus and dubious intentions.)
I was being poisoned in mind, body and soul in all the other ways that I had been ignoring. The ongoing project to poison humanity was getting to me as well. Unlike the few really brilliant geniuses who seem to advance their craft while tending to other aspects of their being, I had needed to and/or chosen to focus my more modest talents in one area, neglecting the rest.

It was time to put aside that focus and tend to the rest of me, if I wished to regain my health and lay a foundation for additional fruitful and beneficial endeavors in this life.

Paul, if I may say so,

There is no doubt in my mind that your highest and best purpose in life is being beautifully fulfilled by the apparently hopeless task of keeping all us cats here herded - and on-topic - at Avalon. I am infinitely grateful every day for your fine intelligence, careful parsing and exceptional insight into the nearly-impossible task of running this forum.

You don't know how good you are.

Many, many thanks in all,

Selene

[Gardener]

The first gatekeeper of research is funding. If one is not researching something 'useful' one doesn't get funding.
In most cases the results of any research merely 'support or do not support the hypothesis' i'e' the research question. Proof is a heavy burden and to think that anyone can provide 'proof' of anything esoteric other than supporting or not the theory or anecdotal evidence would too heavy a burden to carry.

Maybe we just need to lighten up on this 'proof' thing.

[we-R-one]

Sorry I couldn't answer any questions till now. Let me explain what happened and then maybe several of you will understand why I brought up this topic. Just to be clear, the title on this thread really didn't have anything to do with the point I was making, but Paul had to split the thread some way, so if anyone's confused that's why. There's no way to shorten the content- I put the dialogue in this format as the split threads made it too confusing. I'm walking you through, so you can see the thought process as I can tell by your questions you have no understanding of where I'm coming from.

Back on the original Duncan thread Gripreaper had said this(Amzer Zo thanked this post by the way):

Let's use a current example. If it is true that the Archon's staged the Sandy Hook massacre as a ritual human blood sacrifice to their astral gods, such as Moloch, what is it that they receive as a result?

The answer is, our emotions. When we go into fear, anger and grief over the atrocity of the inhumanity of such soulless psychopaths, we release an energy from our field, and the astral beings circle around us and vampire that energy just like food. Then the elite Archon's use their repeat phrases to manipulate our psyches into the programs which they are trying to achieve. Such phrases like "mentally disturbed shooter" , "slain children", "drug induced murder", "assault rifles", "dangerous preppers", "gun control", "something must be done", etc.

Not to say that emotions are wrong, or that we should not have them, but we should recognize them as catalysts and bring them into balance as soon as we can, and not offer them up to be vampired by the astral crazies, or to be used to program us by the elite. We also give our energy away when we spend hours endlessly listening and engaging in the catch phrases which they are attempting to program into us.

So, to answer the question, how do you sell your soul? We do it all the time by allowing our energy to be vampired, allowing the social discourse, and the news, to trigger our emotions, or we just are complacent with our energy and are not focusing it and emanating it and spending it for the outcome of peace and prosperity for all.

I know this is a very simple way of explaining this, and I could be more eloquent, but I don't want to make this post too long. It's about energy, how we generate it, how we magnify it, preserve it, protect it, focus it, intention it, and emanate it. Doing this to the detriment of self and to the aggrandizement of another entity, whether incarnate or dis-incarnate, we sell our souls.

A few posts later I said:

Simple is good. Often I see concepts on this forum so over-complicated it's ridiculous. I've been saying the same thing for a long time, and wonder if anyone is even listening....it's all about energy, the future is energy. It's a battle of frequencies and yet there will be some who insist on making it more than what it is, which only distracts and misleads the masses from placing their focus on the proper subjects. Your post coincides with "The Solution" thread in which emotions play a tremendous role in creating our reality, thank you.

Then a few posts later AmzerZo said:
Looka here for a good synopsis of what Duncan is expecting to occur in the course of 2013: Chicago: Next Big False Flag?

I then said:

ok resident scientist.....I'm gonna put you on the spot....."Where your thoughts go, energy flows".

Enough said.......carry on


The reason I said what I said, was because I identified his post as a form of fear mongering. I called him the "resident scientist" because I thought that's what he had been referred to in the past by other posters, though I don't remember exactly who. I took it as a form of respect and that's why the other posters had called him that. I've also noticed that he seems to have a scientific background based on a lot of the content of his posts.

He then said:

"Have 10,000s of years of denial ever helped this planet and ALL her inhabitants get out from under the yoke of its controllers?

See post # 89 above.


Here's the post though it's no longer #89, see bold:




Nothing like sprouting FEAR PORN to the masses!

FFS..... We create our own reality, why buy into someone elses fear filled version?

Choose to create LOVE around you, Where LOVE resides, Fear has no effect!

HUGS...........Godiam

So how's your 'creation' looking?
Is it 'out of sight, out of mind'? Or 'out of mind, out of sight'?

Hugs

With respect to you both ... what is the worst case scenarnio???

death???

how many thousands of times have we been down that road???

take a deep breath and try to connect to what we are here to accomplish ... yes???

Has any of the above ever worked?

2000 years of prayers to that one god?

2500 years of meditations?

10,000 years of prayers to various gods to ending slavery and suffering?

Time to clearly discover the actual target and the actual, effective, efficient methods to do away with it.

So then I said this:

Yep, saw that post and unfortunately the new science is not reinforcing your assessment. You need to visit "The Solution" thread and pay special attention to the study of Epigenetics. I also added www.heartmath.org for your benefit due to it's discovery per our conversation quite some time ago on Schuman Resonance. You give me the impression that you are flip flopping your stance and I'm trying to understand why. Where did your statistics come from that you posted in post #89? And if you don't mind me asking...what type of scientist are you? meaning, what are your credentials, category of study?



This is where my discernment began to take shape. Why is a supposed scientist saying that the above never worked when the study of Epigenetics says otherwise, as does the Goeze satellite studies? see:

EPIGENETICS
Below is a great 6 minute video that explains briefly how your thoughts change your well being, this is a must listen too! Click on where it says Epigenetics – How Does It Work? Here are a few quotes from that video:

“Your beliefs can change your genetic expressions.”

“The only limitations, I believe are on the environmental fields which influence the perceptions. And as a result then, other people’s beliefs and attitudes around you are part of what you are perceiving and since perception controls epigenetics than our philosophy our cultural things that are going on around us, the beliefs of others, also then become a part of that field, which then can control epigenetics and it could totally impact what you can do…..”

“Beliefs can heal you, but the beliefs of those around you from other people can also influence your ability to express your own beliefs. One of our greatest limitations are the inherent cultural beliefs that we buy into because everyone around us is sharing these beliefs……..Beliefs are energy fields and as such are really influential in shaping our expression.”

“The new science has everything to do with your beliefs”

http://www.qigonginstitute.org/html/epigenetics.php

Well then I thought maybe he's not really a scientist which is why I asked that he identify his credentials in which he never responded. I don't really care what they are, all I'm trying to do is ascertain his area of expertise or if he even has one. I don't have one...so it's not like I have an expectation. Maybe people aren't use to someone using deductive reasoning, but that's what I'm doing. If he's not really a scientist than I could see why he might not know anything about the information I posted above. But I do know he was familiar with the organization Global Coherence Initiative as he brought them to my attention when sharing with me information about Schuman Resonance. Here is something from their site:
http://www.glcoherence.org/about-us/about.html

Under the heading Heart Coherence:
Many people recognize that their meditations, prayers, affirmations and intentions can and do affect the world. Researchers suggest that these activities can have even more transformative and lasting impact by adding heart coherence to the process. Heart coherence is a distinct mode of synchronized psycho-physical functioning associated with sustained positive emotion. It is a state of energetic alignment and cooperation between heart, mind, body and spirit. In coherence, energy is accumulated, not wasted, leaving you more energy to manifest intention and harmonious outcomes.

Adding heart coherence to meditation, prayer and intention practices is an important aspect of the Global Coherence Initiative. It adds order and increased effectiveness to whatever form of practice you are doing.

The Global Coherence Initiative offers education and technology on how to increase individual heart coherence. As groups of people in the Global Coherence community intentionally send coherent love and care to the world, a more powerful heart-filled environment is created. This helps to build a reservoir of positive energy that benefits the planet. This reservoir can then be utilized to help bring balance and stabilization to people, thereby making it easier to find solutions to problems like climate change, the destruction of the rain forests, poverty, war, hunger and other global issues. In addition, by sending coherent heart energy to the planet, you benefit personally. Practicing coherence has a carryover effect that helps to cushion you through stressors and challenges that occur day to day.

You can see how this information compliments the Epigenetics I posted on "The Solution" thread. So in my mind, I assumed that Amzer Zo knew this information based on past conversations. This is where it got interesting for me and questionable. Knowing that he must know what I just posted does not match with the statements he said above in post #89. So I'm trying to figure out why there's a discrepancy or the appearance of him flip flopping his stance. Which is why I said, "the new science is not reinforcing your assessment". There are studies showing that mass meditations do work. Heck I even posted on "The Solution" thread a youtube video of women having orgasms during childbirth for examples of people creating their own reality.

This led me to ask that he provide the source for the statistics in post #89. I felt if he had something that appeared legitimate that I would understand his viewpoint more clearly, but now that I know there's no source, I can only conclude the numbers are unverifiable. That being said, his deductive reasoning doesn't make sense or hold water, IMO.

This is the kind of stuff I'm trying to weed through so I can understand for myself fact from fiction and how people are coming to the conclusions they are. And I'm sorry if this upsets Amzer Zo, as the information he provided does not coincide with the recent studies, nor does it coincide with Gripreapers post, so why would he thank it if he didn't believe in it? I'm seeing inconsistencies and in my mind if this person is a scientist, something isn't adding up and I want to understand because maybe I'm missing something. So am I?

Hopefully it makes a bit more sense- it's not easy explaining in a compact format how one is using deductive reasoning.

[ThePythonicCow]

So this is where it got interesting for me and questionable. Knowing that he must know what I just posted does not match with the statements he said above in post #89.
Here's what I currently think happened. I could easily be wrong.

By your reading of Amzer Zo's post #89 (now here, as Post #9 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53702-Just-in-from-Duncan-for-those-who-follow-his-work.-2013-...-A-New-Year-or-a-Nightmare-...pt-1&p=607495&viewfull=1#post607495)), what he wrote seemed wrong to you, and even seemed to contradict what you thought he knew, based on prior interactions.

However ... rather than plainly and calmly state "Amzer Zo: I read this post as saying ... thus and such ... I don't think that's so ... is that what you meant?", instead you presumed he meant what you read and began to challenge him to present evidence and credentials supporting that meaning.

My guess is that Amzer Zo meant "By and large, in the grand scheme of things, choosing to create LOVE has not been sufficient to drive out some major evil forces on this planet."

My guess, after a quick reading of your latest post above, is that you read Amzer Zo's post to mean "Creating LOVE cannot effect any displacement of evil."

You then proceeded to request (dare I say, demand, repeatedly) evidence and credentials supporting your reading of what Amzer Zo wrote. If I am reading all this right (good chance I am not) then such evidence will never be forth coming, for Amzer Zo did not intent to write what you read in his words.

There is a fundamental difference between saying something has insufficient effect, and saying something has no effect.

If all my above speculations are right, then the moral of this story is:



When another person's message seems bogus, first engage in calm communication to verify that you're understanding their message as intended.

Then engage in further calm communication to arrive at a shared understanding of the two views that differ.

At that point, both parties can calmly agree that there are two views of some matter, A and B, and both parties can agree that one thinks A is true and the other thinks B is true.

At that point, both parties can if they want pursue further discussions seeking common ground and determining the remaining "agree to differ" viewpoints.
Challenging someone else for not having evidence for what you think they said, without first validating and arriving at a consensus that that is what they said, is a great way to derail any useful discussion.

[Hervé]

[...]

Here's what I currently think happened. I could easily be wrong.

[...]

Right on, Paul, pretty much in the bull's eye's iris as far as I am concerned!

My "Where are we at, now" after these thousands of years was simply to demonstrate something is definitely wrong with the picture: it ain't working!

In other words, there is no pudding to sink one's teeth in. Something has been omitted or altered in the recipe.

Carmody's post on the preceding page plainly and clearly explains the process of the skewing of the data to turn discoveries into useless laws in their applications, hence my: "Time to clearly discover the actual target and the actual, effective, efficient methods to do away with it."

Because, clearly, satanists and their likes have been more successful in their endeavours than the other side(s) has/have been, i.e. their applications and methods stick better than the ones from the other side(s).

That's the pragmatic observation. Which leads to "10,000 years of denial..."

And, to address the "new science," epigenetics and the influence of beliefs, if there were a group that has been applying it for eons, it sure is the satanists and affiliates with their beliefs implanted at the deepest levels of their "members'" unconscious... it might be the reason for their apparent success but it doesn't seem to be that successful in changing the genetics of humans to host transdensity shapeshifters since they end up resorting to 3D genetic manipulations to create their hybrids.

Therefore, the practical, effective, efficient "methods to do away with 'em" haven't been discovered yet.

As for calling attention to the "Chicago thread," one has to remember that Duncan and Miranda as well as the individuals they are helping to come out of their implanted marching orders were all TRAINED to participate in that kind of events... on the "bad guys' side"... Therefore they KNOW what to expect in case such events are activated.

Again, is that fear mongering or pragmatism in the face of what's to be expected?

As far as I am concerned, I rather be forearmed via forewarning than sorry.

Concerning these wars for souls, see Steve Richard's thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?38458-Dreamtime-Healing-Using-Holographic-Kinetics).

On the other hand, from a tactical point of view, "they" are always leading the game and therefore "us" as well in trying to figure out what their next move will be... time to get ahead of them.

[Flash]

we-r-one

I thoroughly follow the development of the discoveries of the heart impact on human behavior, and the science beneat it, I follow your understanding of the epigenetic field and to it we could add the morphogenetic fields.

I do see the universe much more in terms of fractal, and the first fractals we can look at and have an impact on are within us.

I do encourage you to pursue your Solution thread, it is a great thread.

However, I did learn one thing in life, and I learned it with hard knocks: you cannot impose nor demand understanding, you cannot impose beliefs nor demand that your are to be followed, you cannot force people, ever. You can only invite them to see a different perspective, learn something new, do something different or the same. Freedom and possibility of choice is first and foremost, otherwise you go nowhere. This is from my own experience.

[panopticon]

I admit to being a little "happy" at the moment (Happy New Year!).
If this has already been answered, sorry.
Seems the data needed is around the dating of ancient history...

10, 000 year old religious structure: Göbekli Tepe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe)
Christian Monotheism: Date ranges of Christian Bible chapters (http://www.errantskeptics.org/DatingNT-ChronologicalOrder.htm) (earliest 51 CE latest 94 CE [though there are many disagreements and I support the upper dates being later]).
Buddhism: Some traditions date (http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/666) the birth of Buddha to 623 BCE however most date his birth to 563 BCE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha).

The Indian Emperor Ashoka (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/mar/16/ashoka-india-emperor-charles-allen-review) is recorded as being a Buddhist convert and patron in the 3rd Century BCE.

Any more info needed I'll have a look at tomorrow -- possibly late tomorrow (or the next day).

-- Pan

[HaveBlue]

A false flag attack on Chicago is an obamanation (abomination) I cannot take the credit for thinking of such articulate language first but thought it bang on!