A minor aside on bullying

[music]

Is Avalon just a mini version of the corrupted wider world, with the same ego and fear-driven power plays, or should we expect it to be a model of a better world?

Do you find yourself scanning the list of online members for a certain name? If you find this name do you go offline and decide to come back later? Does the presence of a certain name on a thread deter you from posting on it? Does the appearance of a certain name on your thread make your palms sweat? Do you feel afraid to express yourself for fear that a certain member will tear a strip off you and make you look a fool? If the answer is NO, then my comments elsewhere on bullying were NOT intended for you. Save your comments of “Oh, but I never feel that”, because even though you personally do not feel intimidated by someone on this forum, this does not mean that bullying does not exist here. There ARE people for whom those questions are all too relevant; there ARE people who feel fear at the thought of attracting the attention of a particular member.

Just because YOU are OK, please do not assume that EVERYONE is OK. If you do not have the courage to stand up to a bully, then the very least you can do is try not to endorse or encourage their behaviour. If you are blind to bullying behaviour for whatever reason (and there are many), consider refraining from commenting whenever the B word is discussed – you will have nothing useful to say.

MOD EDIT: Image removed.

[Arpheus]

When i was a kid around 13 or so there was this kid in my school who was a bully, he was a nightmare to a lot of kids, one day he decided to pick on me for whatever reason even though i didnt even know him and never gave him a reason to do so,i wasnt in a good mood that day so i beat him up LOL,funny thing is after that he never bullied anyone else again.

[RunningDeer]

Thank you for posting, Music.

It's okay to disagree even with a side order of panache. Respectful discourse creates higher energetics for which pure ideas and solutions are discovered.

I posted these elsewhere:

"If awakened people choose not to take the high road, then how can we expect those that are still asleep to have any desire to change?"

"Any one that tears someone down to build themselves up is in no position to lead or teach. One that interferes with the greater message and community, one that chooses a communication style to counter or control the audience with subtle to overt methods is a small minded bully."

Solutions? Personal responsibility. Awareness checks. Time for little tweaks in awareness. Be accountable for our own actions.

[panopticon]

I couldn't agree more Music.

The more we point out that certain discursive behaviours are inappropriate the safer it is for alternate points of view to be put forward.
That's what Avalon allows us to do.
We can hear a broad spectrum of views put forward that sometimes allow us to see things from different perspectives.

I value that about this forum.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[judymoon]

There are people who are very intelligent and knowledgeable, and who can argue circles around the rest of us, while seeming wise and rational. This type of person has learned much, and has a great intellect, with a desire to understand, but is stilll in pain/fear. This is not apparent to the person. Whenever you encounter great intelligence and knowledge coupled with hidden fear and pain, tread lightly. Best to take your attention elsewhere.

[Tesseract]

"Any one that tears someone down to build themselves up is in no position to lead or teach. "



Nicely put. Sadly, our democratic leaders make a mockery of this truism.

[TargeT]

Ill preface this by saying that I understand how hard it is to manage the inner landscape & I am not always the best follower of my own advice, but I strive to be.

Succumbing to fear, or "bullying" in an online setting is a very personal experience, one that is predicated by the "victim" first giving power to the "bully" in varying degrees. I have seen cases where this surrender of power, the allowance of abuse by the "victim" is so great that suicide is contributed to it.

None of this is needed & quite honestly makes very little sense when thought about objectively & with out emotional reaction.

I deas are just that, they either have merrit or they do not; there is no physical force behind them especially on a setting like this where you are as anonymous as you wish to be.

In short, if you feel that you are being bullied I think you need to look at your own inner land scape & see what is causing this insecurity, words, written or spoken, only have the power we give to them, especially in this setting.

[Ontarioguy]

Is Avalon just a mini version of the corrupted wider world, with the same ego and fear-driven power plays, or should we expect it to be a model of a better world?

Do you find yourself scanning the list of online members for a certain name? If you find this name do you go offline and decide to come back later? Does the presence of a certain name on a thread deter you from posting on it? Does the appearance of a certain name on your thread make your palms sweat? Do you feel afraid to express yourself for fear that a certain member will tear a strip off you and make you look a fool? If the answer is NO, then my comments elsewhere on bullying were NOT intended for you. Save your comments of “Oh, but I never feel that”, because even though you personally do not feel intimidated by someone on this forum, this does not mean that bullying does not exist here. There ARE people for whom those questions are all too relevant; there ARE people who feel fear at the thought of attracting the attention of a particular member.

Just because YOU are OK, please do not assume that EVERYONE is OK. If you do not have the courage to stand up to a bully, then the very least you can do is try not to endorse or encourage their behaviour. If you are blind to bullying behaviour for whatever reason (and there are many), consider refraining from commenting whenever the B word is discussed – you will have nothing useful to say.

MOD EDIT: Image removed.

Hi Music, in answer to your question......YESSSS ABSOLUTELY!!!!!! YESSSSSSS!!!! But know what??? for me it has been that I prefer to HOLD back,,, and not out of sweaty palms or fear ..HELL NO.....rather....in my mind I am saying ....BRING IT!!!!!! and It's Gonna get MESSY!!! Cause I can defened myself no probs at all...however...I joined avalon feeling in the beginning that it was a community where like minded people could associate...MATURE FOLKS etc......I am educated enough to hold my own....you bet!!! And lately all I see in avalon is bullying at its best and HUGE favoritism...oh hey now...that is sooooooo blatently obvious too. Make no mistake..I have said it before and wil say it one last time....this place contains a well defined "clique" oh yeah....trust me! And they like to protect one another at any cost. I been in the background watchin and seeing it clearly taking place. It is sad...yessss because Avalon was sooooo cool of a place to be when I joined back in the spring of 2010. Ahhh well...be it as it may....Many folks in here are certainly NOT operating from their HEART....and perhaps I am one of them at this moment...however, this thread is a long time coming as this has been HEAVY on my HEART for quite some time too Music. I totally thank you for initiating this thread!!!! Thumbs up to ya my friend!! And I would hope that it opens the eyes of many and that many will work to operate from their heart in this new year....myself included...hey I aint perfect....and I am and always will be a work in progress too...but for crying out loud....let us all get better in this communication & sharing arena ......Love to all!!!!!! :)
P.S. I love what Jackovesk said....and he is sooo right!! "some people have wayyy too much time on their hands"!!!! yup!

[SnowyOwl]

Before having the privilege to get acquainted with the Medicine Wheel, an aspirant must first fully understand the Wheel of Power and Control. In transcendence, after Childhood comes the Teenager's Time. A teenager b y definition has not yet accumulate enough putative authority and suffer of a inferiority complex despite an urge, an intense urge to affirm itself.

Individuals, Groups of Individuals, Societies and Civilizations follows the same inevitable Path that is the encountering of the Wheel of Power and Control. This Wheel is sort of an exhilarating Power Trip proportionally to ones pre-tensions or self-imbued narcissistic opinions of oneself.

It is the exaltation Fruit in the Path to Higher Spheres and many Individuals, Sectarians, Religions, Philosophies, Societies and Civilizations stop in the Bud their Ascending Transcendance and feed themselves of this Fruit full of injustice, of barbarism, of nastiness, of immaturity of pompous pretensions and psychopathy.

Consider the following definition of abuse:
"Abuse is an attempt to gain power or control over another person using physical, emotional, sexual, or financial tactics."
The "Wheel" you see below shows that Power and Control are at the center of an abusive relationship.

In other words, abuse is when there is a pattern of one person trying to gain power and control over the other.
One of the most obvious or blatant ways to control another person is by using violence -- such as hitting a person, holding someone down, or sexually assaulting someone.
However, there are other ways of controlling a person that do not include physical violence and are not so easy to spot.

Instead of using physical or sexual violence, many abusers may use verbal, emotional, psychological or financial tactics to control the other person.

Some examples of these forms of abuse are shown in between the "spokes" of the wheel. They are more subtle, often people do not recognize them as abuse. But they are abuse, and they often lead to physical violence.


http://www.advocates-oz.org/powerandcontrolwheel_sm.gif


It is easy then to identify, individuals, groups, religions, cartels, societies, nations and empire that are fueled by this wheel.





From http://www.uic.edu/depts/owa/power_control-wheel.html here are more specifics tactics and strategies used by the disciples of Power and Control whose destiny is violent painfull death as History has proven again and again.

POWER AND CONTROL WHEEL


This chart shows you the kinds of behavior abusers use to get and keep control over their partners. Battering is never an accident. It is an intentional act used to gain control over the other person. Physical abuse is only one part of a whole series of behaviors an abuser uses against his/her partner. Violence is never an isolated behavior. There are other forms of abuse, which are shown in the Power and Control Wheel.


http://www.uic.edu/depts/owa/power_control-wheel_clip_image001.jpg




















































Now consider this cycle and read the political agenda of some pseudo-nations, or fat-cats, or people in pseudo-authority....

It all comes to the same at the end as used to say Herman Hesse in die SteppenWolf.

This wheel still goes round and round but alas!, a grain of salt shall reduce it to a shamefull odious bullsh+t.

[Arrowwind]

I would say that there have been a couple of people here on avelon that I think twice about before I post on a thread that they post on. I have to decide each time if it is worth the potential abuse that may come my way. sometimes it is and sometimes it isnt ... often nothing comes my way, but then I have to witness their crap towards others... makes my day less not more.

I can handle straight forward conversation and some critizism.. but what gets my goat is when it comes in the holier than thou format. Some folks around here think that they have all the answers and they are pretty dam rude as they go about making their point. I swear, if they were in my house they would get thrown out by the scuff of their neck just like the cat who pissed on the floor. Fortuanatly on the forum all I have to do is flip the page and they are then silent and done.

[ThePythonicCow]

In short, if you feel that you are being bullied I think you need to look at your own inner land scape & see what is causing this insecurity, words, written or spoken, only have the power we give to them, especially in this setting.


I can handle straight forward conversation and some criticism.. but what gets my goat is when it comes in the holier than thou format.

I too have my list of things that get my goat. It's a different list, but that's a minor detail here.

Teasing apart the actions rationalized by the threatened goat child within me, from the actions in tune with some broader awareness ... that gets delicate at times. But it's worth doing if I can.

One good clue can be found in one's visceral reaction to others.

As TargeT observes, there is little or no real physical danger presented by other forum members, so if one notices one's body reacting as it might to a real live physically present and strong bully ... then that's a good clue that the justifications in one's mind for defensive or retaliatory action are driven from internalized fears, transmuted through the body and then into the verbal mind as rationalizations that are no longer in touch with their true cause, rationalizations that might no longer even have a valid cause.

[SnowyOwl]

Image representation has indeed an evocative reality within oneself. All arrogant, teenage bullying sort of images are just teenages frustrated state of being that arrogantly impose itself. In fact images that are the opposite of Empathic Evocations are just the results of b owels considering this forum as... you know what. For the sake of cultivating a b etter world all avatars that are immature and nasty should be prohibited. Just my 2 cents.
Snowy

[Arrowwind]

In short, if you feel that you are being bullied I think you need to look at your own inner land scape & see what is causing this insecurity, words, written or spoken, only have the power we give to them, especially in this setting.


I can handle straight forward conversation and some criticism.. but what gets my goat is when it comes in the holier than thou format.

I too have my list of things that get my goat. It's a different list, but that's a minor detail here.

Teasing apart the actions rationalized by the threatened goat child within me, from the actions in tune with some broader awareness ... that gets delicate at times. But it's worth doing if I can.

One good clue can be found in one's visceral reaction to others.

As TargeT observes, there is little or no real physical danger presented by other forum members, so if one notices one's body reacting as it might to a real live physically present and strong bully ... then that's a good clue that the justifications in one's mind for defensive or retaliatory action are driven from internalized fears, transmuted through the body and then into the verbal mind as rationalizations that are no longer in touch with their true cause, rationalizations that might no longer even have a valid cause.

I agree for the most part. We respond with internal programing all too often. But then you gotta wonder what internal programming runs what some people say... when they are mean, rude, arrogant, assaulting, intimadating? and why the heck should you or I have to put up with it... well we dont. Just flip the page.

Remember, there are people behind these pages, behind each word. Being the sentient beings that we are we have profound capablity of making the world better or or worse.

[ThePythonicCow]

I agree for the most part. We respond with internal programing all too often. But then you gotta wonder what internal programming runs what some people say... when they are mean, rude, arrogant, assaulting, intimadating? and why the heck should you or I have to put up with it... well we dont. Just flip the page.

Remember, there are people behind these pages, behind each word. Being the sentient beings that we are we have profound capablity of making the world better or or worse.

Words are indeed powerful, and through words or what is behind them, we do indeed connect with each other on this forum in ways stronger than just what a few flashing LCD pixels on a monitor screen can directly cause.

Words may not have the immediate physical force of a SWAT team smashing in one's front door at oh-dark-hundred in the morning, but in the grand scheme of things, words can convey far more powerful forces.

[music]

Thank you for some good replies, and all viewpoints are valid, even when they are in opposition, because the human psyche is incredibly complex.

True, we have responsibility for how we are affected by another, but often this reaction is tied to physical/emotional/psychological damage, so it just isn't enough in this case to say "get a grip, snap out of it, etc.". Sometimes we are unable to rise above in this present moment, and sometimes the most fragile and sensitive people have the most to offer. I feel one of the roles of a community is to support those who are presently compromised or vulnerable, so as to assist them in their journey to reclaim their power. I feel that to loose the contributions of those who are presently vulnerable would be a great shame.

The bully or abuser is often one who was bullied and/or abused themselves. Their power was taken away, and they seek to reclaim this power in the way they where taught by their experiences. I myself was sexually abused repeatedly as a five year old, so badly that it was discovered by my mother because I wouldn't stop bleeding. In my journey to reclaim my power, I became aware of a different road I could have taken. Instead of the hard "theraputic" road, there was the offer of the easy sublimation route, and I became aware that if I took this road, there was a fair chance that I would in turn hurt others. Each bully and abuser is most often the result of an injured child. My injured child had the benefit of a loving mother, and the visions I started to receive from the age of seven - not everyone is this fortunate.

About the image that Marianne removed (a noose with a computer mouse), could I ask if that was because people don't commit suicide over on-line bullying, or that we just don't want to think about the fact that they do?

[SnowyOwl]

Ripping off the veil of denials is indeed the first step towards a Maturity free at last from the bounds of the past.

Stubbornness in one's denials is not a mistake but an iniquity which is far worst since one's accept the destructive reflex to be impose again and again towards innocents.

There comes a time when the child has to become an adult and renounced becoming the agents of pain, of unjustice of debilitation or neet his destiny that is to find one's that out of the b lue will come and strike.

[gooty64]

I once called someone on this forum a bully and she backed right down.

[TargeT]

there is little or no real physical danger presented by other forum members, so if one notices one's body reacting as it might to a real live physically present and strong bully ... then that's a good clue that the justifications in one's mind for defensive or retaliatory action are driven from internalized fears, transmuted through the body and then into the verbal mind as rationalizations that are no longer in touch with their true cause, rationalizations that might no longer even have a valid cause.

I think these are the "loudest" clues we will recive on things like this (and all the rest of our experience here should be calibrated by this as well, it's a very subtle thing), a clue in a world over run by loud music, bright lights and sensationalized "EVERYTHING" like this should not be ignored, even if it is quiet and unobtrusive.

[SKAWF]

well there are many different kinds of bullying.

direct and indrect
physical, mental, emotional
intimidation.. button pushing
subtle..............

destructive....

trolling....

sniping....

i read a post yesterday where someone mentioned....

that someone they knew... wouldnt participate on a thread because there was someone else on there....

hold on a sec.....

it was one of your posts music!

and if i remember rightly, that sentence was contained in a post,
most of which, i read as a direct attack on someone else......
and here we are a day later with a thread which to my eyes,
is a continuation of the of the same point you were making in the post i read...

so i feel compelled to ask you,

is this thread an indirect attack on the person you had a pop at yesterday?

i would hope that given the circumstances,
you wont mind , or feel offended by my asking that question.

regarding the topic though.....

this place, in relation to the outside world...

well....

it is a place of learning, which deals with subject matter that the vast majority of the population are unaware of.
and when one experiences a new realisation, one which expands the mind....
the energetic impulse, i would say is exponentially bigger than the more mainstream experiences most have.

i might even go as far to say that when one is soaking up new, mind expanding information
it could easily be that one is in a state of excitement.... as they learn.
maybe the experience could be 'thrilling'

so i think that there is an aspect of people being highly strung with it all.
and imo this adds a certain volatility to the interactions we have,

so i see what you're saying about this place being a model for a new way of doing things,
but at the same time, the additional factors bring everything back to balance.

on a personal level

i dont care about being attacked.
sticks and stones etc.
no one can do me any harm physically
and the rest will only harm me if i let it.

i would also say that there is a difference between someone actively setting out to pick on someone,
and someone who feels like they are being bullied.
in the second example, it may be that the person who someone thinks is bullying them,
may not even be aware of the reaction which someone else is having, to their actions.

i think that an intention to make someone feel bad,
is the defining factor as to whether bullying is actually taking place or not.

interesting subject.

cheers

[modwiz]

well there are many different kinds of bullying.

direct and indrect
physical, mental, emotional
intimidation.. button pushing
subtle..............

destructive....

trolling....

sniping....



......the imagined kind.

[The Royal Wizard]

It's interesting to observe who is posting in this thread....
Whats the point in bullying anyway? Of course, if one reacts emotionally being bullied, one should excamine one self. That being said, one persons emotional reaction does not give another person the right to bully.

Be decent, a wise man said in a movie once. Be decent, as simple as that :-)

[Marianne]

About the image that Marianne removed (a noose with a computer mouse), could I ask if that was because people don't commit suicide over on-line bullying, or that we just don't want to think about the fact that they do?

Hello Music,
You didn't indicate what the noose represented, and because that particular image has extremely negative connotations, and you hadn't explained it, it seemed to me like a good idea to remove it.

No mention was made of suicide in your opening post, but now that you have, please refer to forum guidelines (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/faq.php?faq=avalonguidelines)
'Threads relating to suicide are prohibited due to legal liability.'

[kaon]

I had mentioned in another thread that Avalon is very tame considering the amount of members here and some of the subject matter. I have never been a member of a forum where politics can be discussed without causing train wrecks, name calling and downright nastiness.

That said, I think most of the "bullying" aspect is more of a personal perception. Some people simply can't handle a little criticism on a discussion board. There are however little quips and pokes made here and there. It's best to simply brush them off and move on. Those who may "bully" only do so when they have an audience and get a reaction in return.

If you can't ignore an insult, top it; if you can't top it, laugh it off; and if you can't laugh it off, it's probably deserved.
(Russell Lynes)

[GloriousPoetry]

I would think that in a community like Avalon the bullies would be exposed by their own words. I've only been on this forum since this past Sept.2012. Why haven't these bullies been asked to leave the forum?

[music]

About the image that Marianne removed (a noose with a computer mouse), could I ask if that was because people don't commit suicide over on-line bullying, or that we just don't want to think about the fact that they do?

Hello Music,
You didn't indicate what the noose represented, and because that particular image has extremely negative connotations, and you hadn't explained it, it seemed to me like a good idea to remove it.

No mention was made of suicide in your opening post, but now that you have, please refer to forum guidelines (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/faq.php?faq=avalonguidelines)
'Threads relating to suicide are prohibited due to legal liability.'

Hi Marianne, I can see the logic, thank you for taking the time to explain.

[music]

SKAWF: i read a post yesterday where someone mentioned....

that someone they knew... wouldnt participate on a thread because there was someone else on there....

hold on a sec.....

it was one of your posts music!


Yes, this is correct, and I was wrong to approach the issue that way. THIS is how I should have handled it. I have made a public apology to the member concerned, and I started two threads of spiritual worth also to inject positivity into the forum. But just because I handled the issue badly initially does not mean that it is not an important one. Just because I made a mistake yesterday, does not mean I am in error today.


... i think that an intention to make someone feel bad,
is the defining factor as to whether bullying is actually taking place or not.


I would agree, [MOD EDIT - Language and tone are over to the top.]

[TargeT]

I would agree, [MOD EDIT - Language and tone are over to the top.]

I can see that you are agitated over something and I'm not really sure what; do you feel like you are not receiving the support you think you deserve on this topic?

Not allowing others to agitate you is [MOD EDIT language], it is simply mastering your own domain; "you".



If you can't ignore an insult, top it; if you can't top it, laugh it off; and if you can't laugh it off, it's probably deserved.(Russell Lynes)

Now I don't agree with trading insults (a pointless exercise) but I think there is wisdom at the end of this quote, though I would say it more like "you probably feel it is deserved".

if someone else’s words triggers something inside of you I see that as a clear indication that you (the reader, no specific target with these "you"s I'm using) have something that needs attention, a reaction that is not initiated by your consciousness is like a "check engine" light on your car, it's there to give you an idea that something needs to be "checked".

I think it's a little ironic that you are complaining about bullies and then refer to someone’s words in a somewhat demeaning manor (bully tactic?) as "weasel words" (which I'm not even sure the meaning of, though it evokes certain slightly negative connotation)

It is compassionate to attempt to manage other peoples emotional reactions by censoring yourself while speaking, I do this quite often myself; but how helpful for the other person is it?

Should we favor censorship over truth?

[judymoon]

I have been told that I am a psychic empath - and believe me, if you're not one, you don't want to be one. I pick up on intention and directed emotion when I read an e-mail or on-line posting. I have gotten physically ill from an angry e-mail. I know....I sound like a big wuss, but I have had to learn techniques for shielding myself from abusive energy whether in person or on-line. I have read that psychic senstivity can be one consequence of early childhood severe trauma. I have read that there are programs (military) used for just this purpose - creating sensitives through severe abuse. But that is another topic.
It is naive to assume that because this forum is one of shared spirituality and growth, no one dangerous or abusive would ever get on here. And the most dangerous abusers are the ones who are smart enough to hide it well.( Maybe even from themselves). Who have learned the spiritual vocabulary, who have done much reading and learning, who seem humble and wise, and yet - when you have an encounter with them, you experience either confusion (why do I feel attacked?) or shame (why does this posting, directed at me, make me feel less-than or stupid, or unspiritual).
Of course, I am using pretty obvious examples, the effect can be on a much more subtle level. And it is also possible that the person doing it, does not see their own abusiveness. Can't figure out why people are 'so sensitive' or why why people concider them to be 'mean'.
If you encounter a person whom you feel is subtly abusing you, your best defense is avoidence. You may well want to say "Hey! Wait a Minute! I know what you're doing!" Trust me - it won't do any good. This is not about honest communication, its about power. If you're sensitive, you can be negatively effected by an interchange. You can't 'out' them - they will have supporters who will defend them.
Who knows what their path is, or what lessons they came in to learn. If discourse with someone affects you negatively, your best defense is avoidance. There are plenty of posters, teachers, spiritual leaders, who teach in a way that doesn't harm.
An abuser is always in pain, on some level. You don't need to deal with them, but you can still feel compassion for them, so you don't risk your heart closing down.

Discernment is a vital lesson when you are following a spiritual path.

[gooty64]

Eventually one has to stand up to perceived bullies.....or not.

Assuming this is between capable adults.

Vulnerable adults and children is another deal all together.

I am assuming we are talking about capable adults in the context of this forum, right?

[9eagle9]

Music...

"Memories are just where you laid them
drag the waters till the depths give up the dead
what did you expect to find?
was it something you left behind?
dont you remember
everything i said when i said...

Dont fall away!
Don't Leave me to myself.
Dont fall away,
and leave love bleeding in my hands
in my hands, again.
leave love bleeding in my hands
in my hands,
love lies bleeding.

Unholy now, it feel contagious.

am i the only place that you've left to go.
she cries her life is like,
some movie black and white.
Dead actors faking lines.
over and over and over again "she" cries.
don't fall away, and leave me to myself
dont fall away, and leave love bleeding
in my hands, in my hands again
leave love bleeding
in my hands, in my hands
love lies bleeding

and i wanted
you turned away
you don't remember, but i do
you never even tried

don't fall away and leave me to myself
don't fall away and leave love bleeding
in my hands, in my hands again
leave love bleeding
in my hands, in my hands
love lies bleeding

*****
think about it . Some people don't want you to
' fall ' regardless if they 'like' you or not.

Sincerely,

"the" Bully.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WrBtRtdL28





SKAWF: i read a post yesterday where someone mentioned....

that someone they knew... wouldnt participate on a thread because there was someone else on there....

hold on a sec.....

it was one of your posts music!


Yes, this is correct, and I was wrong to approach the issue that way. THIS is how I should have handled it. I have made a public apology to the member concerned, and I started two threads of spiritual worth also to inject positivity into the forum. But just because I handled the issue badly initially does not mean that it is not an important one. Just because I made a mistake yesterday, does not mean I am in error today.


... i think that an intention to make someone feel bad,
is the defining factor as to whether bullying is actually taking place or not.


I would agree, [MOD EDIT - Language and tone are over to the top.]

[Freed Fox]

Speaking on the issue at large (as it pertains to Avalon), and not the subtext of the conversation;

If I ever come off as arrogant, bullying, condescending, or 'holier-than-thou' to anyone here, it is not my intention. If you perceive my words this way, please let me know. You can just PM me if you want, whatever is comfortable. I know these issues can't always be avoided, and indeed are inevitable at times in life, but I don't want to be a contributor to these ill feelings. I do my best to measure my words with both respect and modesty, without missing the point that I ultimately want to make.

Thank you to everyone who contributes, whether or not they aim to spare others feelings.

[Strat]

I'm generally positive I've never bullied anyone here though my posts may seem holier than thou at times. If anyone ever thinks this I apologize. However, if I were to be accused of this, I would want to see the exact post.

Here's my 2 cents:

I think it's everyone's duty to themselves and to the rest of the world to constantly work on self-improvement. In this case, I imagine proper (proper being the key word here) diligent, daily, meditation is what's lacking. This is just from my experience: I was physically and psychologically bullied by my older bro when I was younger. Yeah, I know, everyone goes through that...Not really. My old nanny remembers seeing him punching me in the head, knocking me off a couch when I was a baby. He used to hold me down and spit in my face, laughing the whole time. I have a million stories. This seriously screwed my head up and gave me a hair trigger temper. I seriously believe this is why I now have epilepsy and cluster headaches (I'm sure the blows to the head didn't help).

It's not until the past few years that I've been able to almost completely eradicate my anger. It is hard work. If you've been 'meaning to exercise' but almost never do then don't think you can meditate. The kind of meditation I'm talking about is more strenuous than exercising. All exercise (at the extreme level) is all mental. Meditating goes straight to the point and it's downright difficult.

Now this part will be rude but I don't mean to offend, I'm just stubborn as hell and I don't know any of you guys/gals that well: If you're suffering from emotional issues and you tell me you meditate, I will not believe you meditate on the level I'm trying to convey.

More recently I've been using a device called the EmWave2. It's kinda pricey but it's just amazing. It's basically a biofeedback device which tells you if you're meditating correctly or not. It's fascinating to see the direct affect meditation plays on the heart, I think this is the next level of meditation and the old masters will become obsolete (not to take away any respect though).

I could write for days about that device, it should be free and on top of that it should be taught at all kindergartens. Shoot me a PM for details. No, I'm not selling it, it's on Amazon.

EDIT:9eagle9 that song seriously rocks.

[music]

judymoon, wise words, thank you.
TargeT, I will play hard ball if I feel something is being swept under the carpet. Don't worry about the phrase "weasel words", consider the word "empathic". Walk a mile in another's shoes.
gooty64, why do we assume that there are no vulnerable adults here, and there are also minors here too.

.

I take you in my arms and soothe your pain, my love is a gentle hand and cool water on your brow. The pain you wish to cause me I endure because your child needs me to be strong. There is no judgement, there is no gamesmanship, there is only the pure love of the human heart. Love and peace be yours.

[lookbeyond]

I have been told that I am a psychic empath - and believe me, if you're not one, you don't want to be one. I pick up on intention and directed emotion when I read an e-mail or on-line posting. I have gotten physically ill from an angry e-mail. I know....I sound like a big wuss, but I have had to learn techniques for shielding myself from abusive energy whether in person or on-line. I have read that psychic senstivity can be one consequence of early childhood severe trauma. I have read that there are programs (military) used for just this purpose - creating sensitives through severe abuse. But that is another topic.
It is naive to assume that because this forum is one of shared spirituality and growth, no one dangerous or abusive would ever get on here. And the most dangerous abusers are the ones who are smart enough to hide it well.( Maybe even from themselves). Who have learned the spiritual vocabulary, who have done much reading and learning, who seem humble and wise, and yet - when you have an encounter with them, you experience either confusion (why do I feel attacked?) or shame (why does this posting, directed at me, make me feel less-than or stupid, or unspiritual).
Of course, I am using pretty obvious examples, the effect can be on a much more subtle level. And it is also possible that the person doing it, does not see their own abusiveness. Can't figure out why people are 'so sensitive' or why why people concider them to be 'mean'.
If you encounter a person whom you feel is subtly abusing you, your best defense is avoidence. You may well want to say "Hey! Wait a Minute! I know what you're doing!" Trust me - it won't do any good. This is not about honest communication, its about power. If you're sensitive, you can be negatively effected by an interchange. You can't 'out' them - they will have supporters who will defend them.
Who knows what their path is, or what lessons they came in to learn. If discourse with someone affects you negatively, your best defense is avoidance. There are plenty of posters, teachers, spiritual leaders, who teach in a way that doesn't harm.
An abuser is always in pain, on some level. You don't need to deal with them, but you can still feel compassion for them, so you don't risk your heart closing down.

Discernment is a vital lesson when you are following a spiritual path.



JudyMoon i believe u hit the nail on the head-lb

[RunningDeer]

I have been told that I am a psychic empath - and believe me, if you're not one, you don't want to be one. I pick up on intention and directed emotion when I read an e-mail or on-line posting. I have gotten physically ill from an angry e-mail. I know....I sound like a big wuss, but I have had to learn techniques for shielding myself from abusive energy whether in person or on-line. I have read that psychic senstivity can be one consequence of early childhood severe trauma. I have read that there are programs (military) used for just this purpose - creating sensitives through severe abuse. But that is another topic.
It is naive to assume that because this forum is one of shared spirituality and growth, no one dangerous or abusive would ever get on here. And the most dangerous abusers are the ones who are smart enough to hide it well.( Maybe even from themselves). Who have learned the spiritual vocabulary, who have done much reading and learning, who seem humble and wise, and yet - when you have an encounter with them, you experience either confusion (why do I feel attacked?) or shame (why does this posting, directed at me, make me feel less-than or stupid, or unspiritual).
Of course, I am using pretty obvious examples, the effect can be on a much more subtle level. And it is also possible that the person doing it, does not see their own abusiveness. Can't figure out why people are 'so sensitive' or why why people concider them to be 'mean'.
If you encounter a person whom you feel is subtly abusing you, your best defense is avoidence. You may well want to say "Hey! Wait a Minute! I know what you're doing!" Trust me - it won't do any good. This is not about honest communication, its about power. If you're sensitive, you can be negatively effected by an interchange. You can't 'out' them - they will have supporters who will defend them.
Who knows what their path is, or what lessons they came in to learn. If discourse with someone affects you negatively, your best defense is avoidance. There are plenty of posters, teachers, spiritual leaders, who teach in a way that doesn't harm.
An abuser is always in pain, on some level. You don't need to deal with them, but you can still feel compassion for them, so you don't risk your heart closing down.

Discernment is a vital lesson when you are following a spiritual path.

Hello JudyMoon,

You raise good points and remind me of some I've forgotten. Thank you.

Peace,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

[gooty64]

gooty64, why do we assume that there are no vulnerable adults here, and there are also minors here too.

Good question.
I am speaking for the sake of this conversation about capable adults in regards to bullying.
One would really have to separate the consenting adults on here from the vulnerable adults and the children for the sake of this conversation.
Vulnerable adults is a mental label given to adults that can't mentally care for themselves -it is a clinical term. Sensitive people like me (and you?) can feel hurt and vulnerable but, this is different and not a clinical diagnosis.
My guess is there are many members here that would race the aid of a vulnerable adult or minor on Avalon that is being bullied.
So, I think it's best to define the terms for the sake of the discussion.

[music]

[MOD EDIT - Language and tone are over to the top.]


Well allow me to clean it up for you then, though is it not a joke to imply that words can't hurt, and then to censor my words because you don't like them? Feel free to censor me again though, we all have free will. So ...

(I would agree) ... which is why I find Paul’s words quoted below to be somewhat akin to weasel words

Paul: there is little or no real physical danger presented by other forum members, so if one notices one's body reacting as it might to a real live physically present and strong bully ... then that's a good clue that the justifications in one's mind for defensive or retaliatory action are driven from internalized fears, transmuted through the body and then into the verbal mind as rationalizations that are no longer in touch with their true cause, rationalizations that might no longer even have a valid cause.


This fits in well with modwiz, who commenting on types of bullying replies “... the imagined kind.” So guys, you are basically saying it’s all in the mind, don’t blame the poor maligned bully, just drink some concrete and harden up? In fact, let’s start a fundraiser for all those much-maligned bullies out there, and pick up some sticks to start hitting all those people who are weak enough to be affected by their words.

An important point: one is just as culpable, both morally and legally, for in-action as well as for action. It is line in the sand time: is this a community, or is it a hierarchy where the strong prevail over the weak?

My partner commented that the words used here and quoted above perpetuate that old paradigm of control "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names shall never hurt me". What a crock that is. We don't have to do anything about physical hurts, the body is more than capable of looking after itself - cuts heals, broken bones knit together - but emotional and psychological hurts do not repair themselves. The damage of words can be life-long, while the damage of weapons is often only transitory.

See this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53773-A-minor-aside-on-bullying&p=608887&viewfull=1#post608887) above about psychically sensitive people. I encourage everyone to read this again. You might not see that there is a problem here, but consider that there are "sensitive" people, in tune with the energy of intent, who are negatively affected by those insubstantial wisps we call words. There are also people who have been, or who fear being, psychically attacked. Here I should say, this post is not about 1 person only, it is to address the dicotomy of the sensitive and the insensitive, and just because the idea of psychic attack or the injurious power of words does not exist in your cosmology, you have no right to tell other people how they feel and perceive.

The remedy to psychic attack is love. If anyone is interested in how I deal with psychic attack, feel free to pm me.

Never foget that the bully needs love as much as the victim. I never stop loving anyone, it is a constant that can not be tainted by the energies of those who have momentarily lost their way.

[music]

gooty64, why do we assume that there are no vulnerable adults here, and there are also minors here too.

Good question.
I am speaking for the sake of this conversation about capable adults in regards to bullying.
One would really have to separate the consenting adults on here from the vulnerable adults and the children for the sake of this conversation.
Vulnerable adults is a mental label given to adults that can't mentally care for themselves -it is a clinical term. Sensitive people like me (and you?) can feel hurt and vulnerable but, this is different and not a clinical diagnosis.
My guess is there are many members here that would race the aid of a vulnerable adult or minor on Avalon that is being bullied.
So, I think it's best to define the terms for the sake of the discussion.

Hi, I think we are not in the psychiatric arena here, so clinical terms may not be appropriate. Vulnerable will encompass many folk who are strong in most areas, but have an Achilles heel - the psychically sensitive, the physically or emotionally abused, for example. I don't think it is helpful to label the victims of bullying as psychologically imcompetent.

[gooty64]

OK, Music. I hear you. If there is anything I can do to help you, let me know. I'm sorry if I caused harm to anyone by my previous posts.



gooty64, why do we assume that there are no vulnerable adults here, and there are also minors here too.

Good question.
I am speaking for the sake of this conversation about capable adults in regards to bullying.
One would really have to separate the consenting adults on here from the vulnerable adults and the children for the sake of this conversation.
Vulnerable adults is a mental label given to adults that can't mentally care for themselves -it is a clinical term. Sensitive people like me (and you?) can feel hurt and vulnerable but, this is different and not a clinical diagnosis.
My guess is there are many members here that would race the aid of a vulnerable adult or minor on Avalon that is being bullied.
So, I think it's best to define the terms for the sake of the discussion.

Hi, I think we are not in the psychiatric arena here, so clinical terms may not be appropriate. Vulnerable will encompass many folk who are strong in most areas, but have an Achilles heel - the psychically sensitive, the physically or emotionally abused, for example. I don't think it is helpful to label the victims of bullying as psychologically imcompetent.

[SKAWF]

when one gets deeper into this subject, it begins to split into different things!
i agree that people have varying degree's of strength and weekness's in different area's

but as the overseer of own own experience,
i think we have a duty of care to ourselves to find our potential week points and address them accordingly.
everyone is in that position. its the way the game should be played.....
we've all taken knocks in our lives, and its up to us to fix it,
so that we dont end up going through the same negative experiences over and over again.

the world can be a harsh place. it has some uncaring so and so's in it,
and as much as we might like it....
the world will not change to suit the individual.
it is the resposibilty of the indivdual to look after themselves i think.

and when it comes to being bullied.......
you have a choice. to do nothing..... or to deal with it.
once a victim stands up to a bully, the chances are that they wont allow themselves to be bullied by anyone else.
just that one act of courage will bring benefits that will last for the entirety of that persons life.

ive been bullied before. it wasnt words though. it was acts of physical violence.
i have scars on my face because of it.
there was a point where i wouldnt fight back.
even now i dont like violence. i suffer massive guilt for days afterwards
but i have learned the hard way that if you do nothing.... it will keep happening.
it was up to me to rise to the occasion.
it was hard but it was the best thing i ever did.

i went from being an easy target, to being respected for sticking up for myself.
and the problems stopped.

in my heart i know that bullying is wrong, and i would obviously prefer it if nobody did it to anyone.
but the world isnt like that.

lets face it.... if you cant deal with words on an internet forum,
you stand no chance against TPTB. they employ psychological warfare.

what if.........
hypothetically....

this experience (life on earth) was a game that we all chose to come here and play?
and all our experiences were layed out so that we could take on the big boss at the end.....

but some people have yet to get past the mini boss which just is another human picking on them.

i'm not unsympathetic to those who are easily intimidated. (ive become quite maternal of late!)

but at some point its surely up to them to STAND UP and say

'I'M AS MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE THIS ANY MORE!'

a jedi likes to meditate..... its about balance....
but if you threaten his life he will kill you.

we are'nt one thing all the time.
we have to adapt to circumstances.

i like to live my life with a degree of sensitivity. its my preference......
but if necessary i can deal with people who are problematic.

its an essential life skill imo & ime.

cheers

[Lettherebelight]

Hmm, well I appreciate what Music is putting across here, and I think there was a similar thread about Forum Etiquette at one point?

Maybe it's not so much a case of bullying, as more a case of different styles of approach? I believe all styles of approach here at Avalon are well-meaning, but we've got a real mixed bag. You've got your straight, shoot from the hip no-nonsensers (more warrior-like), and you've got your more etheric, intuitive communicators, who may be keenly sensitive, even to thought vibration (what to speak of the forum version of road rage)...and there are many other styles of communication-according to country, culture and conditioning. As a small example, I hear Eastern European (ie Russian, etc) folks consider someone who is always smiling when they talk as not being very bright...is that right?

But the bottom line is that we are all here for a common purpose (not the evil Common Purpose!). I don't think Avalon is just another on-line forum. It's no accident we are here together, such a wide diversity of personalities and beliefs. It's illogical to expect everyone's style to be to our liking, no doubt we will come across those that rub us the wrong way. Let us look after one another, as this is a special sanctuary for high thinking people.

Maybe we can support and protect the shy and more quiet of us, who are of a less flamboyant nature, as well as those that we can see are clearly barking up the wrong tree from time to time (maybe they have a freer, more explorative way?) and excersise a little patience. After all, the best lessons learned, are from our own mistakes. A case in point is a dear friend of mine, who is always chopping and changing her belief system, from galactic this, to ascension that...that's just who she is, extremely mercurial, but her core values of love and being true to oneself are always there. I would never attempt to change her, I love her the way she is!

I know I have said in the past, that I don't necessarily come to this forum to learn about myself, but more to learn about whats going on in the world. I read a lot, but may not always feel comfortable to post what I think...sometimes I feel why should I clutter a thread with my own fleeting musings. Guess I'm making up for it here lol, thanks for the opportunity, Music ;)

But the truth is, I am always seeing reflections of myself in many posts I read, and as a consequence I do learn so much about myself. I also learn so much from the knowledge people have here, too!...and I'm lucky, I can take hot chili pepper style! I know you know what I mean, MI sister :wink:

So I thank everyone for being brave to post what they think. Thanks for your courage in sharing your ideas, as I am certainly the richer for it.

Hope this isn't a TLDR...

[Freed Fox]

Lettherebelight; very well said. Your post here makes me wish you would add a little more clutter from time to time. :)

[music]

OK, Music. I hear you. If there is anything I can do to help you, let me know. I'm sorry if I caused harm to anyone by my previous posts.

This is evidence of a beautiful soul, thank you very much for the intent of your words. You have no need to apologise to anyone, this thread is about understanding, and we understand by examination with the head, and with the heart.

I would like to say again to all that this is not a witch hunt. We seek to understand and to love. Sometimes I may appear harsh, but that is not my intent. Recall from my previous thread that I also had been hurt in a way that could have led me down the bully path. The bully path is not one of evil, it is one of lack of self love. So I will say again that love is the answer to all. Love is the transformative power that heals and nurtures and returns us to internal, balanced integrity, and leads us ultimately to unity consciousness. It is beautiful, and so are we all.

[judymoon]

From SKAWF's post:
"and when it comes to being bullied.......
you have a choice. to do nothing..... or to deal with it.
once a victim stands up to a bully, the chances are that they wont allow themselves to be bullied by anyone else.
just that one act of courage will bring benefits that will last for the entirety of that persons life."

I believe that is what Music did when she started this thread.

[SnowyOwl]

Rationalization of bullying behaviors with a train of hundred of wagons full of justifications and/or excuses.

Or... Observations of objective facts on the methodology of written toughs.

There is an undeniable universal and millenniums statement, that is ''We are Bond by what we write''.

Any texts has a theme, a logic and a rhetoric.

In some countries some themes are taboo, bullying behaviors except in societies that has embrace it generally ain't taboo.

In some discussions some logics of bullying behaviors just don't hold the road and are heading straight into the ditch.

Now comes the ''Nodal'' element, Rhetoric in English Mind and Culture is a mean of communication or persuasion.

Therefore, coerced communications and/or element of persuasion are indicators of one's purpose.

Thus bullying causes physical or emotional harm to individual's and/or groups or damage reputation or properties.
Bullying creates a hostile environment, infringes on the rights of Dignity of an individual and/or a group.
Bullying is a deliberate hostile behavior with the intention to harm others.
Bullying and the Destruction of American Childhood

From Dr Gabor Maté cf: http://www.democracynow.org/2010/11/24/dr_gabor_mat_on_adhd_bullying


The bully is just a kid who is emotionally very immature, has a desperate need to belong, and the way he attempts to do so is by exploiting somebody else’s vulnerability. But these are not deliberate behaviors, so they don’t call for punishments. What they call for is the understanding of where bullying arises out of. Just as the general conditions for childhood development are lacking, and so the conditions for empathy and insight. You see, there’s parts of the brain in the pre-frontal cortex, right here in the front of the brain, whose job it is to regulate our social behaviors. They give us empathy. They give us insight. They give us attuned communication with other people. They give us a moral sense. Those are the very conditions that, according to this Boston study — sorry, this Notre Dame study, are now lacking. So a lot of kids are now growing up without empathy, without insight into others, without a sense of social responsibility. And bullying is just an example of that.

And really, what I have to — the fundamental thing that I want to get across here is that, as I made the point in my book about addiction, as well, the human brain does not develop on its own, does not develop according to a genetic program, depends very much on the environment. And the essential condition for the physiological development of these brain circuits that regulate human behavior, that give us empathy, that give us a social sense, that give us a connection with other people, that give us a connection with ourselves, that allows us to mature — the essential condition for those circuits, for their physiological development, is the presence of emotionally available, consistently available, non-stressed, attuned parenting caregivers.


I think this state it all,
Snowy

[Anchor]

Is Avalon just a mini version of the corrupted wider world, with the same ego and fear-driven power plays, or should we expect it to be a model of a better world?

Do you find yourself scanning the list of online members for a certain name? If you find this name do you go offline and decide to come back later? Does the presence of a certain name on a thread deter you from posting on it? Does the appearance of a certain name on your thread make your palms sweat? Do you feel afraid to express yourself for fear that a certain member will tear a strip off you and make you look a fool? If the answer is NO, then my comments elsewhere on bullying were NOT intended for you. Save your comments of “Oh, but I never feel that”, because even though you personally do not feel intimidated by someone on this forum, this does not mean that bullying does not exist here. There ARE people for whom those questions are all too relevant; there ARE people who feel fear at the thought of attracting the attention of a particular member.

What I have found out from being on forums and running forums is that people have posting angst for many reasons - you only picked one class of problem.

Should a forum change to accommodate this? After all Project Avalon is run to a very high standard. Overt bullying - in the generally accepted sense - is not tolerated. Covert bullying and passive aggression is not supposed to be tolerated either and the intent on Avalon is certainly not to - but there is such a big grey area here its a big challenge for any moderator. It ends up being a judgement call as to the underlying intent - which is done by the moderators who get involved and then they get accused of being fascists etc.

There are other forums where people get torn a new one on a regular basis. Doesn't happen here in any substantial or protracted way.

It is as clear as dogs balls that you have an ongoing issue with 9eagle9 and the way she posts and relates to others - why do you need to allege weakness on behalf of anonymous others to make the general point ?

The people emailing you can also email the moderators - and there is an active core of moderators that should ensure people are looked after.

[SKAWF]

From SKAWF's post:
"and when it comes to being bullied.......
you have a choice. to do nothing..... or to deal with it.
once a victim stands up to a bully, the chances are that they wont allow themselves to be bullied by anyone else.
just that one act of courage will bring benefits that will last for the entirety of that persons life."

I believe that is what Music did when she started this thread.

Hi Judy

i was refering to the individual who is being bullied, standing up for themselves.
it doesnt really have the same effect if someone stands up for you...

what happens when there is no one else around?

cheers

[SnowyOwl]

....Who are you, Hoo, Hoo, Hoo, Hoo ....

Nota
Owl Evocation

In Projective Geometry - Two parallels Merge

It takes Two Rails,
To get the Wagon Running

Snowy flying aside the ongoing Owl Train

[modwiz]

This fits in well with modwiz, who commenting on types of bullying replies “... the imagined kind.” So guys, you are basically saying it’s all in the mind, don’t blame the poor maligned bully, just drink some concrete and harden up? In fact, let’s start a fundraiser for all those much-maligned bullies out there, and pick up some sticks to start hitting all those people who are weak enough to be affected by their words.


Putting words in my mouth is bullying me. :P :drama: I need therapy now. :(
It's a cheap shot. I used three words and you construct a view from it. A very distorted view.
So, along with imagined bullying we also have imagined things that people never said. You make my "imagined kind" statement well for me.
Nothing else to say.

[music]

As a child, my mother taught through many lessons that when we find ourselves in a place of personal power, we have a moral and spiritual obligation to help those who are not empowered. Our role is not to further exalt ourselves by putting others down, our role is to offer a hand. Anchor, I have no issue with any particular member, in fact you will be surprised to learn that I send love and healing energy regularly to members you assume I dislike. It is behaviour I take issue with, not people. We are all of us beautiful beings of incredible capacity and power, but in re-connecting with our power, we serve ourselves and others best if we are mindful of both the constructive and destructive aspects of power.

Modwiz, you make a good point. I re-read my reply to you, and it is not clear perhaps, that I am relating how I (and therefore at least some others) will interpret your words, particularly after reading Paul's words above it. You and Paul are both respected figures here, and rightly so, and I remind you only of the responsibilty your self-empowerment brings.

It is not productive, in my opinion, to drag this discussion out. This, therefore will be my last reply on the matter. My final word is that bullying behaviour is the result of fear, and I will repost the words I posted before which are full of the energy of the intent of love.

I take you in my arms and soothe your pain, my love is a gentle hand and cool water on your brow. The pain you wish to cause me I endure because your child needs me to be strong. There is no judgement, there is no gamesmanship, there is only the pure love of the human heart. Love and peace be yours.

[Kristin]

We all have a responsibility here to be as self-disciplined, self-managed and as self-aware as possible. These three things are intricately locked together. Yet, our imaginations, our emotions, and our ego can come in at any time to remind us that we still have a long way to go. Even imagining that others want to harm you is also a form of self-enggrandizment. People can also become addicted to being victims and need to feed that desire by finding people to harm them. When that does not work a victim may evoke a jab or two to get the ball rolling. That person may even abuse others to find the means to promote a rebuke, thus then turning the other cheek to prove their own worth to others. It's a game that is played both ways. There is an agreement by the victim to be a victim, and by the abuser to be an abuser. My thoughts are simply, "Stop playing games." Take a deep breath and stop for a while. That is how I learned to listen.

I read the posts/threads I write several times before I post and from different angles. First is from the angle of myself, then from the perspective of another reader, then once more to be certain that I am in my truth, that I'm not intending to cause harm to another, and that I have made my point as best I can. I reserve the right to agree or disagree with others as I see fit. But if I insult anyone to make my point, I've lost my way.

You see, I'm not the only person here and what I may have to say is not more important then anyone else's thoughts, experiences, or opinions. But they are mine never the less. I would like the legacy that I leave behind me to speak well of me and resonate due to my own sincerity, not my desire to be heard. My being heard is not that important unless I have something of value to say or ask. Value I may add includes humour, love, and the ability to uplift others through sincere desires as well as the search for truth.

From the Heart,
Kristin

In the spirit of clarification to my post above, I've added five points to consider.


1) This post is about behaviour on the forum. Here the lines of abuser/victim are indeed very blurred. Nine times out of ten (more often then that actually) both sides experiencing unhealthy communication (at Avalon) feel victimized by the interaction. We are fortunate enough to have a higher standard and amazing people that we are working with. However, I am addressing a forum issue. Though at times we do have a purely abusive element, they are not around here for long. If you are feeling abused by someone, then you need to report that to the Mod team so that we can look into the issue. That is our job and we are happy to assist.

2) It's healthy reading to look at an entire post as a whole rather then trying to find a possible flaw through a deconstruction method. Reading things in context creates deeper comprehension.

3) Allow for the intent of the poster, rather then perpetuation of a defensive response from yourself. Trust yourself rather then the opinions of others to guide you in this. Learn to use your own personal discernment as your best guide.

4) Try not to insist that you know the thoughts or intentions of the poster better then the poster does themselves. It is in a sense being accusatory in nature to the person you are attempting to have an earnest conversation with. Many will not find that type of interaction to be thoughtful and it does not cultivate trust.

5) Accept clarifications for what they are, not what you want them to be in order to keep pushing a point.

From the Heart,
Kristin