Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

[modwiz]

Metaphysics or the Sacred Sciences are the same thing. New Age thought is not. The New Age is a parasitical construct feeding off of the ancient wisdoms and crafted for the TV generation and the new education where everybody gets a gold star for breathing. Accomplishments are not necessary because peoples self esteem is involved and the concern for hurt feelings exceeds the concern for knowing where one stands when measurements are taken. Success is measured by the amount of dollars one can accrue. Quantity of output matters more than quality. People get bored without another hit of fast food knowledge that is easily parroted.

The New Age is a tentacle of the PTB. Plenty to buy, plenty of seminars to attend while the TSA gropes you getting there. The New Age empties ones pockets while softening people up for constant "loosh" production. Where did the concept of white light come from? Not a Metaphysician. White light has all colors in it and is an equal opportunity energetic food. Then we have love. Love, the fierce protective, "I will kill anyone who tries to harm my child" kind of love or Def Leppard, "Pour Some Sugar On Me" syrupy kind of love? To be sure I used extremes here. It is the common language to posit only polarities. It is how an unintegrated brain works. One lobe dominating at a time, usually the left since the Renaissance or Age of Enlightenment shifted our way of considering the Cosmos.

Wizard types had it much easier before this age. Dominant right brain processing allows for the world of archetype to live in all of its glory. Superstition abounds in right brain dominant thinking. The waking and dream worlds have more blurred lines. Suggestion works like........magic. Oh yes, the other magical workers, the priestly class also had it much easier. They liked their people illiterate. Not only were they free to interpret text to their advantage, but literacy cultivates left brain development. Critical thinking, the bane of all who would lead by mumbo jumbo. Speaking of mumbo jumbo, back to the New Age.

So, what is New Age mumbo jumbo for the literate left-brained person of today? It speaks to the emotional body. The part of us that can't think, is not made to think. So, words are crafted to go straight to the emotional body, negatively or positively, and bypass the reasoning faculties. The New Age priests now have you under control again.

Metaphysics were what we had before Christianity dominated and threw out all the wisdom accumulated and left for posterity by the "Pagans". The New Age of its' time,(Christianity of which the new age blends with other traditions) one needed no real knowledge a savior would manage everything for you. No need to be literate or trouble oneself with things. The Dark Ages began and we fell into superstition and right brain dominance. Right brain dominance is still very much with us in portions of the modern world. It is a relatively pure form in places like rural Afghanistan. I use there because it is familiar. There are myriad other places to use. The USA has it in much of the bible belt and an even stranger form of it in some of the mega churches where literate people who have reasonable intellect are caught up in superstition that effectively splits them into two. Living in a modern world at the same time as inhabiting an emotional world of based in another time.

The main purpose of this thread is to begin to tease apart the conflated concepts of New Age and Metaphysics from each other. I was moved to start this thread from a few impulses, but a reply from CdnSirian to 9eagle9's comments about emotional bodies was important. CdnSirian remarked that people can't deal with something they don't know they have. Well, since Project Avalon is where science and spirituality meet it is time some of us took it upon ourselves to remedy the situation. In the general population, the ones we are wont to remark about often, I can understand not knowing about emotional bodies. In a forum where UFO's, channeling, and conversations of dimensions and energies are regularly had, ignorance of the subtle anatomy and how it affects us is not OK. We have a situation where an opposing force with bad intent is a focus of many a conversation. The main warlocks amongst them are well versed in all of this. Does anyone think ignorance of the energetic realms they work in will help move our cause forward? They work where we live. Always at all times. They live to manipulate your emotional body, loosh or no loosh. (google loosh, it's right there).

So, in my next post, after this one has been digested a bit and reception of it gauged, a discussion of the basic subtle anatomy and how if affects us and why we need to know about it.

This is offered in love to those who want it. It is the fierce kind.

This post speaks to that kind of love.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53773-A-minor-aside-on-bullying&p=608897&viewfull=1#post608897

[Anchor]

There are some interesting problems facing us with both physics and/or meta-physics:

1) We don't know everything because we have finite brains, finite processing capacity, in an infinite universe - the best we can do is tune in to a set of truth

2) No matter how hard we all try, we each have different understandings (meant in a literal sense)

3) Someone who thinks they know something, cannot always easily communicate it to someone else who they think does not - and they may not be correct anyway.

Thus there are gaps in understanding, ripe for some to exploit in the unwary - hence the saying that "knowledge is power".

In the midst of all this:

a) we all, in some degree or other, seek truth

b) we serve/love either ourselves or other-selves and the ratio between how much we do of each defines us and our future path

[Snoweagle]

Absolutely, the material lust that now is imbued on the Far East substantiates the failures of the paradigm of New-Age "ness". The propriety left brain embrace anticipated has apparently waned unexpectedly much to the chagrin of the exploiters. It still has some heat though the fire of the new market is dampened.

The PTB have burnt their bridges here in the west, as you rightly point out, the right brain perception is now stepping to the fore. Not unexpected. When the left brain organism and belief system fails, which it is or has, then the natural response is to invoke the core base instincts and invoke that which is viable by what is imaginable, the right brain method.

Look forward to your follow up.

[Gekko]

Looking forward to the next post. Was thinking about this today. I'm listening.

Sexy hat.

[modwiz]

Absolutely, the material lust that now is imbued on the Far East substantiates the failures of the paradigm of New-Age "ness". The propriety left brain embrace anticipated has apparently waned unexpectedly much to the chagrin of the exploiters. It still has some heat though the fire of the new market is dampened.

The PTB have burnt their bridges here in the west, as you rightly point out, the right brain perception is now stepping to the fore. Not unexpected. When the left brain organism and belief system fails, which it is or has, then the natural response is to invoke the core base instincts and invoke that which is viable by what is imaginable, the right brain method.

Look forward to your follow up.

Briefly: As welcome as becoming aware of the right brain and the poetry/wholistic nature of it is, to much a return is to re-submerge into superstition and mumbo jumbo. We would be well advised to keep our relatively new developed left brain intact, but to hook it in parallel up to right brain function. It is in the sythesis of the two that we will find wholeness and be able to perceive yin/yang in action.

A quick aside to wholism versus holism. Words are spells, so spelling is important. Holism has a hole in it and is a new age term. Surprise. :P
Wholism is what holism is trying to steal from, both in being a counter-spell(ing) and in the pretense that is is whole when it is shot through with holes. Metaphysics is whole-istic science and spirituality. Holism is pseudo or partial science and NWO spirituality. No spiritual tradition is left intact or "whole" instead we get a little Christianity, some Buddhism, Taoism (Yin/Yang) East and West shaman traditions and Native American traditions. When one realizes that the Lakota use the womb-like Inipi and the Iroquois us a sauna like hut, you see there is no "Native" tradition per se. The Americas had nations with their own traditions and languages. Lumping them together is very hole-istic.

This is just a reply and not my follow up.

[D-Day]

Excellent!

Finally some subject matter worth paying attention to... I'm al ears..

[modwiz]

Excellent!

Finally some subject matter worth paying attention to... I'm al ears..

Thank you. I hope all are aware of the thread by Vivek here:http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53625-The-Psyche-Metaphors-of-Meaning&p=606382&viewfull=1#post606382

This is an opus that is a parallel to this discussion. It is rich in science that can be used for metaphysics. It is an excellent balance for right brained thinking because it is presented in a way that the pieces marry together. It is Olympic strength intellectual swimming. It is also getting some excellent contributions from some of Avalons' other treasures.
There is also Carmody's The Question of Lithium thread for the very intrepid. Plenty of gold there, except it requires Olympic strength intellectual swimming in shark infested waters.:p Metaphorically speaking, of course. A Bachelors in various sciences would help too. :rolleyes:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?17872-The-Question-of-Lithium--Alchemy-dimensions-shapeshifters-aliens-existence-reality..-&p=192251&viewfull=1#post192251

[turiya]

Metyphysics is nonsense, but even then it must be serving some purpose, otherwise, why would it have existed for so long?

Man finds himself helpless in a strange world, unfamiliar - not only unknown, but unknowable to boot. This darkness, this cloud of unknowing, disturbs the human mind tremendously. Somehow man consoles himself. Somehow he has to create knowledge. Something he can cling to... Something he can identify with... Otherwise, the reality will hit him squarely in the face - the reality that he doesn't know who he is, this will drive him into madness - at least that is the fear that his thinking mind will use to prod him into creating more & more nonsense around himself.

Even if that knowledge is not true knowledge, it will give the appearance that one is grounded. It will give the appearance that one is not so helpless. One pretends through it, pretends to know, pretends to be a knower, a knowledgeable intellectual, that he is not such a stranger to himself, to the world he finds himself in... and creates a false illusion of power in the process.


Words are spells...
Words are spells only out of ignorance. Only out of a belief that they are powerful.

Awareness is enough to put an end to a bad dream.

-*-

[Mark]

Greetings, Bredren. I was so surprised to see this topic that I had to go to your profile to check and see when the last time you started a topic was.

It was in March of 2012. You start so few topics that when you do, I find it important to pay attention.

This topic is a direct assault against relativism. Against the "New Age Mumbo-Jumbo". Against holism and perhaps also synthesis, which has the word synthetic hidden in it, apropos of artificial, not natural or genuine, contrived.

I have posted consistently regarding the relativity of perception, the need to understand all points of view and allow for them and the perceived underlying unity of religious and spiritual traditions to the extent that they all encompass some fundamental reality, attempt to explain it and provide a pathway forward for those within those traditions, bounded tightly by their cultural parameters which blinker them, create separation and encourage fear-based thinking and being. A perfect cover for you-know-who to divide and conquer, and through so doing, reinforce the culture of pyramidal control. I have found it necessary to write on this topic in particular, here, in order to express the reality that we share more in common than we do apart.

With that said, when it comes down to it, metaphysics is indeed hard work. There was a reason a lot of the information that we possess today was secret. And it was not all because the PTB were in charge and they wanted to keep the truth from the masses. It was because most people were not ready for it. It was because it was and is dangerous. It was because metaphysics was and is the key to true sovereignty and re-integration with the whole.

For those who have an intellectual understanding of metaphysics as some abstract collection of old sayings and directives, of pithy one-liners and amorphous pie-in-the-sky meanderings, spit out by dissipative, meditating lotus-eaters, their characterization of it as such is indicative of the truly staggering and mind-blowing nature of the topic. And it is also indicative of the truth that they themselves have not experienced these deeper waters personally and determined for themselves the truth of the matter, or the fundamental Nowness of their submersion within an illusory format of being that only barely indicates the depth and nature of that which lies beneath.

Words are indeed spells. Sound is power. Vibration is energy in movement. These are fundamental realities of our existence. To cast the power of enunciation of the knowledge of etymology to the 4 winds as if they were no more than gaseous emanations of the bowels and intestines is to disempower self and the inherent power of creation in favor of intellectual masturbation.

Because I want to see where you are going with this, and participate further with greater knowledge of the terrain you're laying out, I will sit back now and eat popcorn for a while. I eagerly await what comes next.

[modwiz]

Greetings, Bredren. I was so surprised to see this topic that I had to go to your profile to check and see when the last time you started a topic was.

It was in March of 2012. You start so few topics that when you do, I find it important to pay attention.

This topic is a direct assault against relativism. Against the "New Age Mumbo-Jumbo". Against holism and perhaps also synthesis, which has the word synthetic hidden in it, apropos of artificial, not natural or genuine, contrived.

I have posted consistently regarding the relativity of perception, the need to understand all points of view and allow for them and the perceived underlying unity of religious and spiritual traditions to the extent that they all encompass some fundamental reality, attempt to explain it and provide a pathway forward for those within those traditions, bounded tightly by their cultural parameters which blinker them, create separation and encourage fear-based thinking and being. A perfect cover for you-know-who to divide and conquer, and through so doing, reinforce the culture of pyramidal control. I have found it necessary to write on this topic in particular, here, in order to express the reality that we share more in common than we do apart.

With that said, when it comes down to it, metaphysics is indeed hard work. There was a reason a lot of the information that we possess today was secret. And it was not all because the PTB were in charge and they wanted to keep the truth from the masses. It was because most people were not ready for it. It was because it was and is dangerous. It was because metaphysics was and is the key to true sovereignty and re-integration with the whole.

For those who have an intellectual understanding of metaphysics as some abstract collection of old sayings and directives, of pithy one-liners and amorphous pie-in-the-sky meanderings, spit out by dissipative, meditating lotus-eaters, their characterization of it as such is indicative of the truly staggering and mind-blowing nature of the topic. And it is also indicative of the truth that they themselves have not experienced these deeper waters personally and determined for themselves the truth of the matter, or the fundamental Nowness of their submersion within an illusory format of being that only barely indicates the depth and nature of that which lies beneath.

Words are indeed spells. Sound is power. Vibration is energy in movement. These are fundamental realities of our existence. To cast the power of enunciation of the knowledge of etymology to the 4 winds as if they were no more than gaseous emanations of the bowels and intestines is to disempower self and the inherent power of creation in favor of intellectual masturbation.

Because I want to see where you are going with this, and participate further with greater knowledge of the terrain you're laying out, I will sit back now and eat popcorn for a while. I eagerly await what comes next.

You are one of the treasures I was referring to in Vivek's thread. I was hoping you would join in. One purpose of this thread is to have something running in parallel to Vivek's with a mind to a more remedial approach. I will not chide others for not being "up to speed". I will instead share what is mine to offer. I hope for an organic "council of wisdom" to flower from this to the benefit of all. I only ask that what is shared is for consuption for growth and not to demonstrate that one has knowledge. I do not start many threads because they can be misinterpreted as egoic regurgitant instead of the offerings of love they are intended to be. I type poorly and slowly and would be just as glad for someone else to undertake this education. I am up to it, so waiting for another to do it is not personally acceptable to me.

You are a prolific and informed person whose input will not be regarded as crowding but rather someone coming to the panel because it will enrich all.

[modwiz]

Here us a post that I wrote in the Simon Parkes thread. Rather than link to it I will copy and paste it with the link. It is a small blurb on subtle bodies.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30323-Simon-Parkes-about-Mantis-Aliens-Reptiles-and-other-aliens.&p=591594&viewfull=1#post591594


I have a little more writing energy tonight so it came to me to post something that resonates strong with me. Our subtle anatomy, the subtle bodies, play a huge part in our lives and existence. One of the markedly different subtle aspects of humans and many other races is the emotional body. We humans not only have one, it is often overdeveloped, at least in contrast and balance to the intellectual or mental body. Many other species seems to have either underdeveloped/atrophied/non-existent emotional bodies or predominant mental bodies. It is my personal understanding that the balance, or ratio, of emotional to mental body "strength" is crucial for proper spiritual development. Balancing the 4th and 5th subtle bodies (4 and 5 for reference here) creates a "lens" that allows for the proper conduction of the ethers (in)to allow the spiritual body (6th) to become fully integrated or functionally operative. When the 4th,5th and 6th subtle bodies are in alignment the 7th or causal body can come into play.

With that said, it seems that the Mantids are very developed in their mental bodies. The reptilians seem far more complicated in their mix. Without getting into describing off world races that I am not particularly conversant about, and incurring a lesson from OnyxKnight , I will just say/opine that the more spiritually oriented races seem balanced in their emotional and mental bodies. They feel and have compassion ,but are not the emotional wrecks many humans are. They seem possessed of a keen intellect, something missing from the mass of humanity. I am not ruling out the possibility that an engineered worker human was purposely bred with a lesser intellect and only nobles who couldn't keep their pants up for the pretty peasant girl have spoiled the plan for a retarded/intellectually compromised common person.

Just some ideas/beliefs/concepts I thought to share.

[Ultima Thule]

In chinese medicine tradition nothing is written in vain. A thing I for long time didn't find complete was the following: it is said that Qi rises via the left side of the body and descends via the right side. Common explanation is linked to the Liver - its topmost tip crosses the midline of the body, and therefore as the Liver Qi rises from there, it dominates all rising. Also left side is considered Yin, to compliment the Yang of the rising sun from the east, when facing south, the movement of the Yin being upwards et .. There are many overlapping movements of Qi, but this has been the only one I had for long not been satisfied with.

One night it dawned on me how one could imagine the energy of the earth rise via the left, dominating the left hemisphere, resulting in down to earth-like functions of the left side of the brain. At the same time the heavenly, let's say solar or cosmic energy is descending through right hemisphere down to earth, creating the intuitive, wholistic(hope I don't drop the ball here) concepts and thoughtforms of the right side of the brain.

Now I am quite certain that these energies also spiral, but let's see if anyone is intrigued by what I find injecting more substance to this chinese medicine concept, and if it can add any value to this thread, which I thank you Modwiz very much for!

UT

[Bo Atkinson]

I think it is lively discussion or the creative principle which can become lost in the "written word".

The cherished writings can become overly dominant. Cast in stone. Creativity in physics or metaphysics can be stopped. Writings or works can become the traps used by orthodoxy. To use as population controls.

This has happened inside any popular subject. Just as in the currency of commerce-- As soon as there is an abundant cash flow, the sharks and parasites want increasing domination.

I just happened to hear a conjecture that Socrates "criticized books" or loss of oratory? No... (paraphrasing Chris Hedges' reply, scroll to minute 8 or 9) (http://ia601209.us.archive.org/17/items/EmpireOfIllusionByChrisHedges/Empire_of_Illusion_Part_4.mp3) ....No, It was rather concern that orthodoxy would come to dominate a thought process... Ending live discussion bearing creative thoughts... So i don't need to get that quote annotated precisely. Rather just carry on.

~wav

[Anchor]

Words are indeed spells. Sound is power. Vibration is energy in movement. These are fundamental realities of our existence. To cast the power of enunciation of the knowledge of etymology to the 4 winds as if they were no more than gaseous emanations of the bowels and intestines is to disempower self and the inherent power of creation in favor of intellectual masturbation.

This is key insight and makes me want to mention intent.

Intent decides how this power moves.

On reflection "decides" isn't the right word, they sort of happen simultaneously, intent and the movement of the wheels of the universe associate with that intent happen out of time.

[spiritguide]

The dolphin brain! Will submit more material as the thread progresses. This thread will provide education for those of us that that relish it. Thank you Modwiz for this opportunity to share.

[modwiz]

I think it is lively discussion or the creative principle which can become lost in the "written word".

The cherished writings can become overly dominant. Cast in stone. Creativity in physics or metaphysics can be stopped. Writings or works can become the traps used by orthodoxy. To use as population controls.

This has happened inside any popular subject. Just as in the currency of commerce-- As soon as there is an abundant cash flow, the sharks and parasites want increasing domination.

I just happened to hear a conjecture that Socrates "criticized books" or loss of oratory? No... (paraphrasing Chris Hedges' reply, scroll to minute 8 or 9) (http://ia601209.us.archive.org/17/items/EmpireOfIllusionByChrisHedges/Empire_of_Illusion_Part_4.mp3) ....No, It was rather concern that orthodoxy would come to dominate a thought process... Ending live discussion bearing creative thoughts... So i don't need to get that quote annotated precisely. Rather just carry on.

~wav

This is not so much about dogma, right/wrong. The written word is what we have in this forum and it is the medium for idea conveyance. Written in stone is a corny idea anyway.LOL I treat my organic knowledge base like a hard drive. I write, copy, paste and of equal importance, I delete. It stays while it works and gets edited or deleted as needed.

A big problem that has revealed itself is thinking with the emotional body. Apparently, this simple concept is jibberish to many. This is working very well for certain people. The tower of babble serves those who benefit from confusion. This thread is no more than the equivalent of knowing poisonous snakes from non-poisonous ones. That is, useful information to help one navigate safely. No metaphor here. Proper thinking requires a cool head with a minimum of hormonal releases. The emotional body is a hormone producing one. Hormonal cascades do not help clear thinking and the varying neuro chemical shifts produces effects bordering on multiple personalities. In the end we not only disagree with each other, we disagree with other parts of our selves. I consider that not productive. The results are in the world, friends and family surrounding us. Dysfunction is the norm. It is accepted as the norm. This is not a good thing.

[ulli]

The emotional body produces either a fight or flight response, so it is much less complex than the intellectual body.
Because of this simplicity it is also much faster than the intellect. It only needs to decide between like and dislike.
On the other hand, intellect can see a variety of options, which go further into the future...
sees the consequences of different courses of actions. Precision is needed here.
Metaphysics is largely about precision. Without it there can be no real results.

Precision-based planning is laborious, and most people, for lack of time, stay with the simpler route of responding to life in an emotional, or even instinctive way. Most don't seem to mind that this leaves a messy trail.

Am I allowed to ramble? I gather this thread allows for experimental thoughts.

[DNA]

I think the dichotomy you are describing is between those who have done the work and those who are repeating the results of people who have done the work and think it is the same thing. Spiritual advancement is a solitary undertaking with gains being made through subtraction.

[modwiz]

The emotional body produces either a fight or flight response, so it is much less complex than the intellectual body.
Because of this simplicity it is also much faster than the intellect. It only needs to decide between like and dislike.
On the other hand, intellect can see a variety of options, which go further into the future...
sees the consequences of different courses of actions. Precision is needed here.
Metaphysics is largely about precision. Without it there can be no real results.

Precision-based planning is laborious, and most people, for lack of time, stay with the simpler route of responding to life in an emotional, or even instinctive way. Most don't seem to mind that this leaves a messy trail.

Am I allowed to ramble? I gather this thread allows for experimental thoughts.

Thoughtful rambling works for me. I think, not feel, that the emotional body has quite few variations on response. Fight or flight being the obvious seeming polarities. Flight or fight are really the same adrenal response and have basically identical physiological profile. Bottom line here is, blood goes to muscles and is pulled from viscera and the all but needed parts of the brain. The result is a brutish, primitive avatar. One that is almost atavisitic. How is that for some word magic? It's in the words, I did nothing.

It is not my intention to cast the emotional body, or emotions, in a negative light. It is my intention to shine some light into an area that is not taught and one that people will often not know it would be wise to teach themselves. I hope to give some basics and have a little go a long way.

[modwiz]

I think the dichotomy you are describing is between those who have done the work and those who are repeating the results of people who have done the work and think it is the same thing. Spiritual advancement is a solitary undertaking with gains being made through subtraction.

I do not see a dichotomy where there is a lack, unless there isn't. Ignorance is reasonable without information. Willful ignorance is something that cannot be enabled and is best seen for the ballast it is. At that point we know who does not wish to be part of the solution. It is helpful to not have to listen to distractive noise. There's an adults room and a children's room. Let people decide which one they are. By their fruits we will know them. There has been talk of bullying and being mean. When reasonable attempts to explain how much of this is contrived and the emotional body has been brought up, it now surfaces that this is an unknown terminology to many/some. It would "mean' of those who can address this deficit to withhold this important and useful information.

I agree that the important integrative work is a solitary undertaking. Introduction to tools and concepts is done well in groups. Seminars are very popular and bear some fruit.

Time for this owl to roost.

[Ultima Thule]

This is not so much about dogma, right/wrong. The written word is what we have in this forum and it is the medium for idea conveyance. Written in stone is a corny idea anyway.LOL I treat my organic knowledge base like a hard drive. I write, copy, paste and of equal importance, I delete. It stays while it works and gets edited or deleted as needed.

A big problem that has revealed itself is thinking with the emotional body. Apparently, this simple concept is jibberish to many. This is working very well for certain people. The tower of babble serves those who benefit from confusion. This thread is no more than the equivalent of knowing poisonous snakes from non-poisonous ones. That is, useful information to help one navigate safely. No metaphor here. Proper thinking requires a cool head with a minimum of hormonal releases. The emotional body is a hormone producing one. Hormonal cascades do not help clear thinking and the varying neuro chemical shifts produces effects bordering on multiple personalities. In the end we not only disagree with each other, we disagree with other parts of our selves. I consider that not productive. The results are in the world, friends and family surrounding us. Dysfunction is the norm. It is accepted as the norm. This is not a good thing.

The hormonal release threshold has been what I´ve figured out to be the main difference - again in chinese medicine concept - between the feelings that inner organs produce on their own when for example in malfunction and feelings that trigger no such activity, being related to the persons Shen, the spiritual aspect that is of "heavenly" origin. This I have thought to be one key thing in all of those meditative practices where you detach from your feelings and thoughts - discovering your true self, non-hormonal self? Now don´t get me wrong, I like hormones as well as the next fellow!
How good of you to bring that up!

UT

[modwiz]

This is not so much about dogma, right/wrong. The written word is what we have in this forum and it is the medium for idea conveyance. Written in stone is a corny idea anyway.LOL I treat my organic knowledge base like a hard drive. I write, copy, paste and of equal importance, I delete. It stays while it works and gets edited or deleted as needed.

A big problem that has revealed itself is thinking with the emotional body. Apparently, this simple concept is jibberish to many. This is working very well for certain people. The tower of babble serves those who benefit from confusion. This thread is no more than the equivalent of knowing poisonous snakes from non-poisonous ones. That is, useful information to help one navigate safely. No metaphor here. Proper thinking requires a cool head with a minimum of hormonal releases. The emotional body is a hormone producing one. Hormonal cascades do not help clear thinking and the varying neuro chemical shifts produces effects bordering on multiple personalities. In the end we not only disagree with each other, we disagree with other parts of our selves. I consider that not productive. The results are in the world, friends and family surrounding us. Dysfunction is the norm. It is accepted as the norm. This is not a good thing.

The hormonal release threshold has been what I´ve figured out to be the main difference - again in chinese medicine concept - between the feelings that inner organs produce on their own when for example in malfunction and feelings that trigger no such activity, being related to the persons Shen, the spiritual aspect that is of "heavenly" origin. This I have thought to be one key thing in all of those meditative practices where you detach from your feelings and thoughts - discovering your true self?
How good of you to bring that up!

UT

Your contributions are understood by me. I have a cursury education in TMC (traditional Chinese medicine). In order for me to keep a focus on basic subtle anatomy, I will let you fill in any information that you think is useful. For myself, the path will be as narrow as my kind of circular/horizontal thinking will allow. The richness of TCM is shown in the many poetic names for acupuncture points. I love the name, "bubbling spring" for the Kidney1 point. There is so much in these two words, especially when the element and organ function is understood. The consciousness contained in the organ system is very disorienting to Western thought raised on the body as a machine with a binary concept of health. Well or sick, nothing in between. The nuance of TCM includes the many variables of light between night, dawn, day, midday, afternoon, dusk, twilight and then night again. These qualities are also part of everything. Including the subtle bodies. The emotional one no different.

[DNA]

You mention the emotional body quite a bit. The emotional body is always going to be involved in group settings because of the energy exchange taking place. This takes place on a medium even such as this with all of us being great distances from one another. I'm sure someone more adept could give a quantum physics lesson in why this is. The trick is in determining the agenda of those who would profess to offer their insights. Is it out of the true philanthropic desire to help others,,,, or is their payment in the quantum particles we call attention?

[modwiz]

You mention the emotional body quite a bit. The emotional body is always going to be involved in group settings because of the energy exchange taking place. This takes place on a medium even such as this with all of us being great distances from one another. I'm sure someone more adept could give a quantum physics lesson in why this is. The trick is in determining the agenda of those who would profess to offer their insights. Is it out of the true philanthropic desire to help others,,,, or is their payment in the quantum particles we call attention.

I mentioned in an earlier post here in reply to Rahkyt that I would rather let someone else handle this. The emotional wreckage in the world today guarantees that any attention will come with grief. I hope that will allow you to drop your agenda agenda.

The emotional body is the impetus behind this thread, philanthropy the fuel.

Carmody speaks on this, adeptly, at length and in many ways. This is yet another approach.

[modwiz]

An old thread from a member who made 6 posts. Worth a look, IMO.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?8797-A-New-Era-in-Physics-Anti-Gravity-Cold-Fusion-Explained-In-Detail--video-series-&p=76078&viewfull=1#post76078

[DNA]

Agenda? I'm all for brevity of posts and I would love to think this could speak volumes to me, is this my agenda? Is it someone else's agenda I've unknowingly adopted? Since it's an agenda agenda does that make it an agenda within an agenda?

[778 neighbour of some guy]

The emotional body produces either a fight or flight response, so it is much less complex than the intellectual body.
Because of this simplicity it is also much faster than the intellect. It only needs to decide between like and dislike.

The variety in between those responses are endless btw, the flight from and flight to, just as there is fighting for and fightinging off and or take a few steps back to check out the opponent what or whoever this is ( sizing it up).

The flight one is way more interesting imo, i see this every day, especcially where love is involved, take for instance the borderline personality who is bassically experiencing lack off love and can be a bottomless emotional pit ( no offense here, these are observations i make every day) they flee from this one to the next in the hope their expectations of what and how they should be or deserve to be loved will finally be met, usually creating havoc in many many lives, the love addiction is a dangerous one, possibly the most dangerous one of all, we all want it and we all need it, but to what extent is the question, digging a hole in front of you to fill the one behind you is not the solution, you are still always and forever left with some hole behind you, not smart when the moment arrives that you have to take step back,hormones are the people breeder but can be the absolute mind killer, check out your own relationships/friendships/jobs where you made the wrong decision by going for what the body needed instead of using your brain and put you needs on hold.


I think this is a very interesting thread, if i am on the wrong trail here just kick me out, i am only trying to learn something here.

I will keep reading here though.

[spiritwind]

Excellent!

Finally some subject matter worth paying attention to... I'm al ears..

Thank you. I hope all are aware of the thread by Vivek here:http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53625-The-Psyche-Metaphors-of-Meaning&p=606382&viewfull=1#post606382

This is an opus that is a parallel to this discussion. It is rich in science that can be used for metaphysics. It is an excellent balance for right brained thinking because it is presented in a way that the pieces marry together. It is Olympic strength intellectual swimming. It is also getting some excellent contributions from some of Avalons' other treasures.
There is also Carmody's The Question of Lithium thread for the very intrepid. Plenty of gold there, except it requires Olympic strength intellectual swimming in shark infested waters.:p Metaphorically speaking, of course. A Bachelors in various sciences would help too. :rolleyes:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?17872-The-Question-of-Lithium--Alchemy-dimensions-shapeshifters-aliens-existence-reality..-&p=192251&viewfull=1#post192251

Thank you for continuing to point out jewels that I had previously overlooked here. I had started looking at Vivek's thread but not this one started by Carmody. I haven't even got past the first post and am greatly intrigued. Love the idea of bringing all this knowledge together to make some sense of it. Seems this is a current trend on Avalon that I like very much. Lots of great contributors here too. I really want to be able to make sense of the bigger picture and am glad to see I am in such great company.

[PurpleLama]

I also see that from within the state of calm, confident apprehension of what is, veils dropped, there also comes a chemical shift within the body, as much as fear creates a chemical change within the body we associate with the coresponding forces of a hormonal nature, so to does the operation of faith change the chemical forces within the body, perhaps more subtly than our scientific understandings can reach. Such is born from the top down, incubated from the spirit, the direct connection that may be sought, stands in turn to effect us from the physical, through the emotional and mental, rejoining itself in the form of the subtle, or spiritual body.

Many of us speak to the importance of a calm mind, calm emotions, not panicing, but these are a state that engenders and is engendered by the subtle body, by our very own Self. I have made various references to the purple pill, and some see this as a matrix reference, as some middle path between the red and blue, but this is incorrect to the context I'm speaking to. It is seen as an inner knowing of "everything is ok", a knowing that brings healing and peace to me, and after many years of meditation and progressive magical research, this purple pill arrived through the medium of a dream. In and of itself, it is a profound emotional experience, an activity of the emotional body, and is the antidote to all of the adrenaline inducing animalistic emotions we so know and love. The best words I have to point to it, for another to grasp what I'm referring to, is as one seeks the internal sensations, those from the solar plexus down, one finds many myriad knots of emotional tension, little tight places each formed from ever excitable moment one has ever had, and I suspect from other experiences (lifetimes). As one seeks out these little knots within, and directs the mental energy to relax each of these, whether one is consciously seeing and clearing the underlying aspect/event, or whether one deals with it purely with the sensation of tightness, and likewise untying with the sensation of relaxation or release. One goes deeper and deeper into a dark place, a place of no conscious form, from there may spring this certainty that I refer to as the purple pill.

The energy of attention, I think, is an important topic, and the discerning of another's intent when this other "captures" our attention. A topic that might serve to derail this thread early on, yet is important to touch on once the groundwork here is laid a little further. IMO.

[spiritwind]

You mention the emotional body quite a bit. The emotional body is always going to be involved in group settings because of the energy exchange taking place. This takes place on a medium even such as this with all of us being great distances from one another. I'm sure someone more adept could give a quantum physics lesson in why this is. The trick is in determining the agenda of those who would profess to offer their insights. Is it out of the true philanthropic desire to help others,,,, or is their payment in the quantum particles we call attention?

Not wanting to derail this thread in any way but just wanted to add a little aside to this idea of the emotional body. I may be wrong on this but I tend to think the emotional body is also related to the pain body that Eckhart Tolle talks about and that many people have an emotional body full of pain accumulated throughout their life as a response to challenging or traumatic experiences. They often don’t know this. I say this because of an experience I had with my daughter when she was about 15. I had her attend a program for a week that, among other things, led up to an exercise that allowed each of the participants let go/release their accumulated pain body, as in clear it out. It was quite the traumatic experience for her. But when she came back she was like an entirely different person. No more baggage (hers or anyone else’s she had accumulated) and I was in complete awe of her. No kidding. She just beamed on a whole new level I had not experienced from her before. She was confident and loving and no longer exuded such anger towards the world and self loathing (I think this is our natural un-tampered state). It didn’t last but I think the whole emotional issue is rather a big one and is part of the reason for some of the reactivity I occasionally see on the forum. Our society barely recognizes this issue but it causes so many problems and the current trend of drugging everyone who doesn’t feel life is just wonderful is actually part of the problem. Plus, in a roundabout way I also think it ties in to how we have been so easily manipulated as a species by these archonic forces. Sorry if I have gone off topic too much. Please, carry on folks.

[Cidersomerset]

Hi Modwiz glad to see you are back in the 'White council' your looking more like Gandalph in your avatar photo ..LOL..

I've never been into the 'New Age' material and now I am myself reaching middle age ( wheres the years gone!)...

I am finding this whole 'meatsack' experiance more enlightening epecially the last 5 years, good thoughtfull thread

cheers from 'middle earth'........


http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQbAIvI0w9DTuQBoG0i3KJjEExTjCBkAWiklrEIrfDRoLkrfjiezOajuRe7

[DNA]

I think the dichotomy you are describing is between those who have done the work and those who are repeating the results of people who have done the work and think it is the same thing. Spiritual advancement is a solitary undertaking with gains being made through subtraction.

I do not see a dichotomy where there is a lack, unless there isn't.

Ignorance is reasonable without information. Willful ignorance is something that cannot be enabled and is best seen for the ballast it is.

Okay, how about this. For most folks spiritual information will do nothing until they have gone through the painfull route of self exploration. Removing and ecxising parental and societal planted false values. I ussually refer to this as an elongated stage of personal introspection, where one questions and pursues the answers to what is real and what is not real in terms of autonomy. Until this is done, spiritual truths and wisdoms are of little value.

Once folks do this, synchronicity can lead them to information in regards to where they are at in their devolopment. And by sychronicity I mean the spiritual administration of angelic social workers who are watching over you and out for you.

The reason I say this is because folks want to argue for and against creating their own reality. I absolutely agree we are creating our own realities, but there are depths to this few people want to acknowledge or take responcibility for.

[soleil]

I think the dichotomy you are describing is between those who have done the work and those who are repeating the results of people who have done the work and think it is the same thing. Spiritual advancement is a solitary undertaking with gains being made through subtraction.

I do not see a dichotomy where there is a lack, unless there isn't.

Ignorance is reasonable without information. Willful ignorance is something that cannot be enabled and is best seen for the ballast it is.

Okay, how about this. For most folks spiritual information will do nothing until they have gone through the painfull route of self exploration. Removing and ecxising parental and societal planted false values. I ussually refer to this as an elongated stage of personal introspection, where one questions and pursues the answers to what is real and what is not real in terms of autonomy. Until this is done, spiritual truths and wisdoms are of little value.

Once folks do this, synchronicity can lead them to information in regards to where they are at in their devolopment. And by sychronicity I mean the spiritual administration of angelic social workers who are watching over you and out for you.

The reason I say this is because folks want to argue for and against creating their own reality. I absolutely agree we are creating our own realities, but there are depths to this few people want to acknowledge or take responcibility for.

dna, i want to add that this has been happening to me everyday. im long past being astounded by the syncronicity. i'm actually quite glad everytime, because i feel as though i am on the right track. and im pretty happy that i get days off if i will and request them. ;)
modwiz, i am delving more and more into metaphysics in that my solitary journey wants to learn more.
where do i begin?
i have been looking online at mystery schools to find out what the course outline is, so that i can just do some learning on my own. i suppose this is where i can ask for assistance?

many thanks to you all - thank you modwiz for starting this thread. i have been working hard to be balance, without polarity. it was sure challenging during that time of pure hormones...

LOL:wizard:

[9eagle9]

If the mind could grow, cultivate or have an ego imposed on them, then the emo body could create a pain body. Both are defense mechanisms that run out of control eventually. Unfortunately the ego starts a relationship with the pain body that is based mostly on sadism.





You mention the emotional body quite a bit. The emotional body is always going to be involved in group settings because of the energy exchange taking place. This takes place on a medium even such as this with all of us being great distances from one another. I'm sure someone more adept could give a quantum physics lesson in why this is. The trick is in determining the agenda of those who would profess to offer their insights. Is it out of the true philanthropic desire to help others,,,, or is their payment in the quantum particles we call attention?

Not wanting to derail this thread in any way but just wanted to add a little aside to this idea of the emotional body. I may be wrong on this but I tend to think the emotional body is also related to the pain body that Eckhart Tolle talks about and that many people have an emotional body full of pain accumulated throughout their life as a response to challenging or traumatic experiences. They often don’t know this. I say this because of an experience I had with my daughter when she was about 15. I had her attend a program for a week that, among other things, led up to an exercise that allowed each of the participants let go/release their accumulated pain body, as in clear it out. It was quite the traumatic experience for her. But when she came back she was like an entirely different person. No more baggage (hers or anyone else’s she had accumulated) and I was in complete awe of her. No kidding. She just beamed on a whole new level I had not experienced from her before. She was confident and loving and no longer exuded such anger towards the world and self loathing (I think this is our natural un-tampered state). It didn’t last but I think the whole emotional issue is rather a big one and is part of the reason for some of the reactivity I occasionally see on the forum. Our society barely recognizes this issue but it causes so many problems and the current trend of drugging everyone who doesn’t feel life is just wonderful is actually part of the problem. Plus, in a roundabout way I also think it ties in to how we have been so easily manipulated as a species by these archonic forces. Sorry if I have gone off topic too much. Please, carry on folks.

[9eagle9]

I would pick a discipline you are interested or drawn to. We are often drawn to cultural plumb bobbing, disciplines that come from our culture.

If you were to start with tarot which composites quite a lot towards the foundation of mystery school teachings as they are about the evolving archetypes we travel through on life's journey. Then you'd begin by studying the cards, the imagery, what planets and numbers they relate to and why. You will go through a lot of opinions and tarot books. . The mystery is actually inside of us.

Learn the correct ways to interpret their place, reversed, and their positive and negative aspects. People and their out of control emos tend to not look at reversed or negative aspects. One means clearing often times and negative only means deficient, not evil or dark.

Then you read for yourself. At this point these are not divination tools they are tools for self reflection. The problem is when people practice tarot they want to immediately skip over the self exploration aspects of divining the inner realms and read for other people. The first hundred readings should be of ones self to give an arbitrary number.

why am I doing this.
What is driving me.
What influences do I have
What work lies ahead of me.
What am I
Where is my purpose most strongly focused at

Tarot doesn't work optimally without sister or companion disciplines but one always starts somewhere. . No one has to become an expert or an adept, these are tools, with more practice adeptness comes. Practice makes perfection.







I think the dichotomy you are describing is between those who have done the work and those who are repeating the results of people who have done the work and think it is the same thing. Spiritual advancement is a solitary undertaking with gains being made through subtraction.

I do not see a dichotomy where there is a lack, unless there isn't.

Ignorance is reasonable without information. Willful ignorance is something that cannot be enabled and is best seen for the ballast it is.

Okay, how about this. For most folks spiritual information will do nothing until they have gone through the painfull route of self exploration. Removing and ecxising parental and societal planted false values. I ussually refer to this as an elongated stage of personal introspection, where one questions and pursues the answers to what is real and what is not real in terms of autonomy. Until this is done, spiritual truths and wisdoms are of little value.

Once folks do this, synchronicity can lead them to information in regards to where they are at in their devolopment. And by sychronicity I mean the spiritual administration of angelic social workers who are watching over you and out for you.

The reason I say this is because folks want to argue for and against creating their own reality. I absolutely agree we are creating our own realities, but there are depths to this few people want to acknowledge or take responcibility for.

dna, i want to add that this has been happening to me everyday. im long past being astounded by the syncronicity. i'm actually quite glad everytime, because i feel as though i am on the right track. and im pretty happy that i get days off if i will and request them. ;)
modwiz, i am delving more and more into metaphysics in that my solitary journey wants to learn more.
where do i begin?
i have been looking online at mystery schools to find out what the course outline is, so that i can just do some learning on my own. i suppose this is where i can ask for assistance?

many thanks to you all - thank you modwiz for starting this thread. i have been working hard to be balance, without polarity. it was sure challenging during that time of pure hormones...

LOL:wizard:

[RunningDeer]

Looking forward to the next post. Was thinking about this today. I'm listening.

Sexy hat.

And hair cut? Nice picture. Great thread. :focus:

[Carmody]

There are some interesting problems facing us with both physics and/or meta-physics:

1) We don't know everything because we have finite brains, finite processing capacity, in an infinite universe - the best we can do is tune in to a set of truth

2) No matter how hard we all try, we each have different understandings (meant in a literal sense)

3) Someone who thinks they know something, cannot always easily communicate it to someone else who they think does not - and they may not be correct anyway.

Thus there are gaps in understanding, ripe for some to exploit in the unwary - hence the saying that "knowledge is power".

In the midst of all this:

a) we all, in some degree or other, seek truth

b) we serve/love either ourselves or other-selves and the ratio between how much we do of each defines us and our future path



1) We don't know everything because we have finite brains, finite processing capacity, in an infinite universe - the best we can do is tune in to a set of truth

This is a hyper-critical point. Let me explain why.

Finite brain and perception. Infinite truth.

This combination means that to the finite brain and perception, that infinite truth can be found in any path.

It is the level of meandering that is up to the given individual, regarding the directions and episodes of that given path; which infinity as an idea on/in...the finite mind, says that this given path.. can change..at any time.

Organized matter, or energies, in the form of intelligence, requires differentials (energy, ie differences in state) at the most fundamental level, in order to 'be'. This inherently means that all shades of grey and black and white, all exist, they or it exists...to the finite organized energies that are calling themselves 'intelligence', or 'recognition of self', is a potentially better way to describe 'intelligence'. (this leads directly to the idea of one being a unit of perception within the mind-reality of 'god', which, from the finite viewpoint, is that of 'all' or infinity. since this is taken as an image from inside of a box, even that act or position can be and is self limiting)(this leads to my statement that (re-iterated) "judgement is a fool's game, it limits one to the lies to self that cascade from the self's past.... and are projected into the given future")

The LEVEL, or capacity in breadth and depth of the capacity to define self, ALSO forms the parameters of capacity to cognate within the matrix of energetics that can be encompassed by the given finite 'self'.

Thus, increasing self growth, also defines more area to search in, at the same time that the size of the search bites and the size of the strides.... increase.

Does the given one desire to 'get there' faster and/or more correctly? Increase the scope of the self. Simple enough.


Of course, Eagle was in my back yard this morning. If such a thing is questioned (what does that mean?), then I posit to the being, "Define reality". :) What is connection, what is formation, what is flow..if all..'is'?

If the being defines 'reality' they are defining borders. Borders of 'being', thus they form the boundaries that limit or hold the scope of reach. No matter how one expands or contracts, it is still a box, a limit. One might then consider limits with a sliding parameter, where limits can be changed, limits of the self boundary can be changed. Ergo and eg... Religion: by the act of enforced rigid definition, is a circular and self limiting exercise in defining a box, that reflects only back into itself. Humans so love their capacity to define. Methinks, perhaps...too much.

~~~~~~~~~~
As an aside: The logic is simple once it is defined, and cognated. That religion can be dismissed as a boxed limit, And clearly seen as such in as little as 5 or 10 sentences spoken on the subject of logic and perception....may illustrate that it's position in the realm of human existence..... may be at an end. that the relative capacity in the given average being on this forum is enlarged enough that their box is big enough to be larger than the box of religion and ..clearly see the borders and definitions of the box of religion. The next question being, of course...'if that is a box..then..what else is a box...?'-answer, even this limited view of 'god' remains a box)
~~~~~~~~~~

What creates limits in most human avatars? The emotional body. And it possesses only rudimentary intelligence, thus it might be considered to require a bit of concern and rumination upon what it may say or attempt to define as a limit.

And the hold on the doorway of perception in the human avatar realm can be slid to a fairly wide aperture and fairly complex and layered depth. (complex and layered, from the vantage point of the given box) This, via the means of addressing the emotional body so it relaxes and allows one to occupy the avatar with less restrictive motion and less restrictive perception.

To trigger the avatar to opening the perceptive base, instead of closing it, instead of pulling in perception. One of the easier ways to observe this in action, is in the realm of astral projection, at the onset of astral projection. In those moments, the body is informed, by the reflection of perception by the occupant of the avatar...that they have escaped the fleshly self. but the reflection remains, and this refection causes a fear response to occur in the emotional body....and then the being is snapped back into being in the avatar and no longer is astrally projected.

[Carmody]

PS, I'll write this down before I loose it. busy, busy, busy brain. Much gets lost, and then rediscovered 10 years yon.

I believe I've found the temporal sensitivity and how it propagates in "dreams."

Eric Dollard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhuSn6sc7sc) speaks on it, in his videos. It is the SECONDARY speed limit, the one ABOVE light speed (292,000 Miles per second). It is the pre-wave of and within linear time - unidirectional time. That this is found in the mind as a snapshot of a reversed image, from reversed time. Which is why the space is black, you see, the seen scope of the space, the bubble is small, one of being tuned to our perception. We repair (re-compute, reorganize, decipher or whatnot) this in the body components that convert imagery in the mind. All this can be changed via enlarging the given box of perception.

The pre wave of FTL wave applies to plasmas, it is an MHD characteristic of the complex field function of quantum structure.. understand that we, as solids, are the odd man out in the universe. 99% of the universe is not solid, it is plasma.

To clarify. I DO DIRECTLY know of a man who owned an high technology firm, and was it's primary inventive force. He had over 120 patents in the realm of telecommunication. He made working and finished systems for the telecommunications industry. He was a CORE developer of RF and microwave digital communications systems.

He made a finished and fully worked out engineered and manufacturable (all work was done, ready to be built, in all parameters, today, kinda thing)..communications system ..that worked at 300x the speed of light.

I can name the man. I can name the company, and it's location. I can also tell you that he died, of cancer, a short time later. I stress, personal story, not some remote bit of internet 'stories'. Remember my claim though, I can only prove something to people - once. Proof, in the existing environment, is very costly. We are being blocked.

Your clue, if you should choose to accept it..is an electronic technology item. One might say that nothing in the multi-dimensional realm of even quantum existence..exists ...without sidebands to the given peak.

[modwiz]

The reason I say this is because folks want to argue for and against creating their own reality. I absolutely agree we are creating our own realities, but there are depths to this few people want to acknowledge or take responsibility for.

I am in full agreement with you here. I will refrain from stating why I think this abdication of personal responsibility takes place, because it is a personal one for each. However, become aware of the subtle bodies and their management and balance is sort of a primer for our reality creation.
Getting in charge of ones energetic state is required for any meaningful creation of ones own reality. We cast out, create, our reality in front of our selves as me move forward through time. Creating or recreating the past is also part of this. The recreation of the past is very helpful around emotional wounds. These wounds are the equivalent of physical wounds except the are in/on the emotional rather than physical body. The physcial body is bound in time and space in its' healing abilities. The emotional body is under no such limitations and can heal at the speed of desire. The desire to heal is paramount. The role of forgiveness in this process cannot be overstated. Especially where the wounding cause is no longer active/operative.

[Carmody]

Yes, our given body does not know any better. One has to forgive one's self and then love the body, love the self. Opening has to be enabled. Otherwise the circular closed pattern will remain.

[modwiz]

modwiz, i am delving more and more into metaphysics in that my solitary journey wants to learn more.
where do i begin?
i have been looking online at mystery schools to find out what the course outline is, so that i can just do some learning on my own. i suppose this is where i can ask for assistance?

many thanks to you all - thank you modwiz for starting this thread. i have been working hard to be balance, without polarity. it was sure challenging during that time of pure hormones...

LOL:wizard:

9eagle has given you the deeper reply to your answer. I will answer the shorter question about the subtle anatomy. I say the shorter answer becuase once you have the basic layout of of the subtle anatomy ther is just the care a feeding of it after that. The divinatory/revelatory tools of tarot, numerology, astrology and tree of life are how you make the information of the subtle bodies dynamic and useful.

Some of the best books on this subject for me are no longer in print. They can be found used. The few New editions are in the hundreds of dollars. They are "Gem Elixirs and Vibrational Healing Vol1 and Vol.2 and Flower Essences and Vibrational Healing. These books address the subtle anatomy in some considerable depth because gem elixirs and flower essences address this part of our anatomy. The early chapters lay the groundwork so that the later information on gem elixirs and flower essences can be understood. These books are very metaphysical but not difficult reading. Amazon carries used versions of them.

[GloriousPoetry]

Excellent thread Modwiz. In 2004 I had a spiritual awakening that literally kicked my ass. It's from this spiritual experience that I have also concluded that spiritual advancement is a solitary undertaking, however I am grateful to be part of a community like Avalon where I can express my sincere and personal revelations. I have not written about this 2004 experience mainly because my linear intellect still can't fully wrap its mind around what happened in my body, or perhaps because words are too limited , or perhaps because I still have not reached the level of synthesis to express it , or perhaps because my ignorance of the energetic realms has not permitted me to move forward with this information. Therefore I intuitively wrote this poem for myself a while back.

In the center of this world where life exudes all of the secrets of its soul and where creation conceives all of the facets of its role, three overtures of an eminent nature redeem the demarcation of what becomes seen between the generation of physical formation and the regeneration of spiritual sensation.....

[CD7]

In the general population, the ones we are wont to remark about often, I can understand not knowing about emotional bodies. In a forum where UFO's, channeling, and conversations of dimensions and energies are regularly had, ignorance of the subtle anatomy and how it affects us is not OK. We have a situation where an opposing force with bad intent is a focus of many a conversation. The main warlocks amongst them are well versed in all of this. Does anyone think ignorance of the energetic realms they work in will help move our cause forward? They work where we live. Always at all times. They live to manipulate your emotional body, loosh or no loosh. (google loosh, it's right there).


Is there anyone among us who truly KNOWS wht goes on with our emotional bodies and how everything is operating underneath the surface?

Any education on such matters ive heard about emotional bodies were in NEW AGE books- philosophies...etc etc-- And yes i believe the new age is another dogma dressed in different 'religious' clothing...so wht real knowledge is there to offer or gain about emotional bodies/realms? To me-not much

HORMONES seems to be the biggest pain in the arse in respect to curt tailing--taming human emotions.....hormones in conjunction with other things i feel. To me, hormones, are not natural at all---So to me it seems to really break through the manipulations (from many arenas) would be to have an adept ability to alter/control ones bodies from a cellular level <-----------------this education would be difficult to find (or right under our nose?)---if it truly exists at all?

OR even better endoctrine system transformed for the physical aspect...dreams yes i know...dreams :)

[WhiteFeather]

Several years before my so called awakening moment i was deeply involved in religion. I guess this is where most of us all start im sure. The next step of my journey was New Age material. After going through much of this material the next stop was free spirituality. I believe I utilized New Age to slingshot my way from religion to free spirituality, I had a problem with the program that we were born with sin. As I Couldn't swallow that bitter pill with sugar or honey. It seems to me know that religion may have sort of trapped me, and The New Age material freed me and expanded my awareness/consciousness from this so called trap. So in response i have to give slight gratitude or credence to (some) of the New Age material. As For myself, It was a stepping stone much like religion was. New Age material seemed to catapult me into the multiverse thereby connecting spirit with the natural law of life. Today im starting to look at New Age differently since i have become more aware of its hidden deceptions like you have mentioned in your original posting. Im looking forward to exploring my next lesson whatever that may be. I agree, the new age stuff is becoming more and more deceptive and brainwashing it seems. Great thread Rad. As the train conductor shouts......... Next Stop, The Multiverse!!!

We are all from 1 tribe........

W.f.

[9eagle9]

One doesn't have to have a hundred percent certainy one just needs a basic understanding.

" New Age" didn't create the emotional body. I agree its BS is superficial bandaids.

If all the methods you have found are in new age slush books, look elsewhere.

Processing and self reflection are not BS, there's a variety of methods for clearing the inner landscape, that require self reflection and understand WHY its there.

Some work better for other people. It's hard, painful, and sometimes tedious work. Slushy stuff usually isn't.

Learning how one's psyche works is not new agey or bs, until the bs got hold of it. The integrity of the core values still remain out there.

[9eagle9]

Here's a non new agey approach.

Pick one thing in your life that keeps re-occuring. Usually unpleasant.

Frex, you constantly struggle with keeping a job, finances, etc.

You keep getting in relationships with seemingly the same person over and over again.

the same circumstances keep happening over and over again.

First realizing this and then pinpointing back to where that all start is initiating in self clearing process.

New Agey floof will say wave some sage around.

[PurpleLama]

HEY, I like waving sage around! It fun to add the element of risk of burning the house down when clearing out the nasty juju. Almost poetic, just ask Astrid. :D

[CD7]

Processing and self reflection are not BS, there's a variety of methods for clearing the inner landscape, that require self reflection and understand WHY its there.

Id say the best method for self reflection was LIFE, lol There's nothing like all the observations, patterns, symbols, noise tht let me know about all the BS hahahaha....

[Beren]

All depends from the starting point.
A soul one or body one.

If we start from body one, then all this is growing into Himalaya of possibilities of "how to"- usually overcome the body itself and move as freely as soul is.
Carmody ,the thing you wrote about this patented tech and its owner who dies very soon after that is a telling one. A telling one about the ultimate desire of body to overcome itself and be free as soul is.

Remember Tesla?

He did things that are centuries ahead this time and many other, still he is almost forgotten.
Which leads me to your thread which Modwiz linked here.
There is a force of angelic nature (spirit-sheer intelligent energy) which is meddling in our existence from the day one.
Which is injecting in our mind the thought of being inferior, weak.

Hence our fear and a desire to overcome weakness of body.

Truth is that this force since spiritual -can change shape and bend time and space in small way.
Problem is that we bought or swallowed its hook and bate.

But we`re not alone or left out.
That angelic force is but a caretaker who wants to usurp our place.

Why?

We are the original template, the soul spark of Source. And caretakers were created to leads us into growing up into Source or multiply Source in and out of eternity.
They got carried away (some of caretakers, like some kindergarten caretakers can abuse children).

Real power is in us.

And we go back to the beginning.
If we look from soul`s stance-we have all that we need. How,why,when???

We are of God-Source,hence we hold the flame imperishable that cannot ever be taken out and misused because we are never separated from God. Invisible links even for those Angelic forces (who cannot see all in their pride and ego fall).

Why Christ said to Love God with all your heart,soul,mind and strength?
It`s because to do this means actively be united with Source so nothing can affect you because you`re one with Source.

Heart-our core emotional universe
Soul-our essence
Mind-thought power
Strength-matter (body and all possibilities of physical strength)

Hence what should one soul do:

1.direct your will power towards Source-God (a choice)
2.this will generate the mind
3.engage the direction of your emotion center (heart) towards the prime emotion-Source.
4.this will generate the inner spark or flame to enlighten
5.essence or soul will turn its total attention towards its origin-Source-God
6.this will open up understanding of materiality of universe and our particular role
7.upon understanding the material or physical of ours - all is actively united with Source with this holy link.

Seven steps towards release from bondage.
When completed ,then we don`t need any technology in all realms and spheres.We are above all existing or possible tech in all times. We are aware that WE are Source-God and also we are unique individuals aswell- we are Christed.

Everything then happens by single thought. Stars are born by a single thought and there is no possible or existing technology to accomplish this in the existing universes (if they approach all their existence from body stance). NO ONE can do this...unless they ARE Source-God.

So again, Modwiz thanks for this great thread and all other folk too with awesome contributions.
It`s all a choice.
To trust the Angelic forces with various agendas (ones we discuss here pretending to be Archons or reps or grays or entities)...
or to trust God-Source of life and Love itself.

[Jeffrey]

In the general population, the ones we are wont to remark about often, I can understand not knowing about emotional bodies. In a forum where UFO's, channeling, and conversations of dimensions and energies are regularly had, ignorance of the subtle anatomy and how it affects us is not OK. We have a situation where an opposing force with bad intent is a focus of many a conversation. The main warlocks amongst them are well versed in all of this. Does anyone think ignorance of the energetic realms they work in will help move our cause forward? They work where we live. Always at all times. They live to manipulate your emotional body, loosh or no loosh. (google loosh, it's right there).


Is there anyone among us who truly KNOWS wht goes on with our emotional bodies and how everything is operating underneath the surface?

Any education on such matters ive heard about emotional bodies were in NEW AGE books- philosophies...etc etc-- And yes i believe the new age is another dogma dressed in different 'religious' clothing...so wht real knowledge is there to offer or gain about emotional bodies/realms? To me-not much

HORMONES seems to be the biggest pain in the arse in respect to curt tailing--taming human emotions.....hormones in conjunction with other things i feel. To me, hormones, are not natural at all---So to me it seems to really break through the manipulations (from many arenas) would be to have an adept ability to alter/control ones bodies from a cellular level <-----------------this education would be difficult to find (or right under our nose?)---if it truly exists at all?

OR even better endoctrine system transformed for the physical aspect...dreams yes i know...dreams :)

From a physics-based, scientific standpoint, the entire universe is energy.

Also, from a spirituality based, metaphysical standpoint, the entire universe is energy.

It's all connected, this isn't supposed to be some esoteric cliche. It really is all connected (each layer influences another and so on, it's a complex system but the concepts aren't all that complicated).

This energy is present in varying degrees and gradients of manifestation. Science breaks this up into the electromagnetic spectrum. I'd say it's safe to assume (uh oh) the gradient goes beyond gamma rays and radio waves. Those pillars were erected because of the shortcomings of our own scientific instruments of measurement.

Matter interacts with other matter based on their energetic structures. This basically corresponds to their properties of charge, magnetism, and geometry -- these are characteristics based on how the energy in that matter behaves. This is a very non-technical view, which I find it easier to be creative and exploratory when I'm not caged in by technicalities. Those come later. It's a conceptual thing.

:)

The radicular cause of matter may be related to how energy (at an indistinct, fine, basal level) interacts with the very geometry of space. Here we have two important, rudimentary factors -- pure energy and the geometry of space.

If there is an alpha -- it would be pure energy, beyond any description of power or vibrancy. I'd imagine this is a well of energetic, simultaneous inhalation and exhalation. The very geometry of space interferes with this absolute energy upon it's release or radiation from it's point of origin. It becomes spread into a spectrum. Complex systems of interaction begin to take place. Matter begins to form. The intricacy continues to develop.

The laws of physics begin to manifest themselves -- these are just the inherent manner in which these systems interact. They don't follow rules. They just are.

Science has detected all that it's methods and gadgets will allow. It's gadgets are becoming more refined, and I think that's exciting.

Think of a speck of dust landing on your arm. You can't feel it, but it's there. The body's method of measuring physical sensations of pressure aren't nearly fine enough to detect something so subtle. Similarly, science has yet to fully uncover and explore any energy beyond the range of it's instruments. They have begun their journey of gaining understanding about the nature of the cosmos from a gross perspective. There are other scientists that have begun their journey of gaining understanding about the way of things from a subtle, refined vantage point. These are the ancient yogis, the seers, the shamans, and the modern wizards.

The question a lot of people have is how something so subtle can have any consequential effects on our materiality, and why should it matter?

To say that it is subtle isn't to imply that it's inconsequential. Gravity is the weakest of the fundamental forces of nature (according to how science has labelled and categorized them). Just look at it's effects! It is not a force we can physically see, we measure it indirectly through observing it's effects. It is in this way we know it is there.

[Side note: Our eyes aren't sensitive enough to directly observe many things, and maybe our perception isn't developed enough to observe many things we can't perceive with our eyes. This being the case, we can still observe it's effects (i.e. physical manifestations). To understand it and perceive it may require some practice, and a willingness to learn in order to know. Nullus in verba.]

Take atoms for example; they seem inconsequentially small, but that doesn't negate there importance on a larger scale.

Atoms are basal, and very important.

Similarly, regarding energy, it's subtlest aspects are basal -- or causal.

The system is structured in layers. I don't think it's hierarchical though. The interconnectedness of it all resembles more of a holarchy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holarchy). The gradients are still there, but this isn't an "above and below" type of thing, it's more of a "zoom in, zoom out" type of deal -- like fractals.

Anything that matters has a field.

Atoms have fields.

Chemistry is based on how these fields interact.

Biology is based on chemistry.

Fields affect the body, emotions affect the fields.

Emotions are physiologically linked to chemicals. They can be viewed as carriers of an emotion.

Is the emotion in the carrier, or in the field?

Zooming in, on a rudimentary level, it boils down to how the energy is behaving.

Fields affect fields in varying degrees. The body produces a field, as do atoms, chemicals, thoughts, and emotions (at least the electrochemical aspect of them).

The very DNA in our bodies produce a field. Biology is just beginning to discover a whole system of communication with in the body based on extremely low frequencies (also, google biophotonics).

The concept of the subtle affecting the gross is akin to the concept of the butterfly effect.

From Wikipedia:




In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions, where a small change at one place in a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences to a later state. The name of the effect, coined by Edward Lorenz, is derived from the theoretical example of a hurricane's formation being contingent on whether or not a distant butterfly had flapped its wings several weeks before.

Although the butterfly effect may appear to be an esoteric and unlikely behavior, it is exhibited by very simple systems: for example, a ball placed at the crest of a hill may roll into any of several valleys depending on, among other things, slight differences in initial position.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

Tesla also claimed that he could do some very big things, by very small means.

Here is a summary of the story of his little mechanical oscillator.




Nikola Tesla revealed that an earthquake which drew police and ambulances to the region of his laboratory at 48 E. Houston St., New York, in 1898, was the result of a little machine he was experimenting with at the time which "you could put in your overcoat pocket."

The bewildered newspapermen pounced upon this as at least one thing they could understand and "the father of modern electricity" told what had happened as follows:

"I was experimenting with vibrations. I had one of my machines going and I wanted to see if I could get it in tune with the vibration of the building. I put it up notch after notch. There was a peculiar cracking sound.

"I asked my assistants where did the sound come from. They did not know. I put the machine up a few more notches. There was a louder cracking sound. I knew I was approaching the vibration of the steel building. I pushed the machine a little higher. "Suddenly all the heavy machinery in the place was flying around. I grabbed a hammer and broke the machine. The building would have been about our ears in another few minutes. Outside in the street there was pandemonium.

"The police and ambulances arrived. I told my assistants to say nothing. We told the police it must have been an earthquake. That's all they ever knew about it."

Some shrewd reporter asked Dr. Tesla at this point what he would need to destroy the Empire State Building and the doctor replied: "Vibration will do anything. It would only be necessary to step up the vibrations of the machine to fit the natural vibration of the building and the building would come crashing down. That's why soldiers break step crossing a bridge."

In another interview, he boasted that, "With this principle one could split the earth in half like an apple".

Source: http://www.rexresearch.com/teslamos/tmosc.htm

I love that story.

To answer your first question ---> No, I honestly have no idea, but that isn't to say that I don't have ideas!

This is a summary based on what I've read, and how I've made sense of it.

[CD7]

Why do we continue to hash over the same things? We keep parroting...rehashing...reshape info and spew it back out...but humanity at its core does not seem to go anywhere??? Our ideas and notions make no advance towards transformation/changes whtsoever?

Hummm major reflection just happened here.....wht am i to do if i feel like this now?...good god im not even in my eighties yet!!!

Everything just goes around and around-- its like realizing LIFE is a merry go round seemingly stuck in a vacuum! :roll:

Its difficult

[CD7]

Vivek i appreciate ur response from a scientific standpoint...and i know there are those who enjoy scientific inquiry/academics....

I have already gone through a phase of study through academics---however i have been turned off by it immensely....full of partial notions tht have no real bearing (aside from confusing us) on humanity when taken in their pieces and the study of us and our world is still IGNORANT to who and what we are---TRULY in all aspects

The blind leading the blind and setting up OUR standards before anything is really ever seen/known...............

[AwakeInADream]

I'm all for a more practical and intellectual approach to spirituality.:)
I had a dream that basically said 'You must get smarter! You must understand Carmody's post's! They are important!',

I have a few questions. I could be accused of being 'new agey' but really I am not, it's just that I feel(lol),
I mean I understand that 'Love' is the most powerful tool/weapon I have. In fact until I can get smarter,
it may be the only thing I do have going for myself.

Could it be that Love is not an emotion at all, and as such has nothing to do with the emotional body?
(maybe it's more of a force...)

Also. Is there a way that we can modify our perceptions of time by some experiment or exercise?

Modwiz, I remember you mentioned that you were doing research into rythem,
so I'm wondering if there might be just the right rythem at just the right tempo
that might have the effect of changing our perceptions of time.
When I listen to 'Dark Side of the Moon' for instance, I'm sure that time slows down a little...(in a good way I mean)

Great Thread Modwiz!:) Thank's too for providing links to other important threads.
We need to be more orginazized for 2013!(deliberate spelling error;))
I'm ready for the fight, I just need the tools to fight with!:wizard:

[Hervé]

Here's a non new agey approach.

Pick one thing in your life that keeps re-occuring. Usually unpleasant.

Frex, you constantly struggle with keeping a job, finances, etc.

You keep getting in relationships with seemingly the same person over and over again.

the same circumstances keep happening over and over again.

First realizing this and then pinpointing back to where that all start is initiating in self clearing process.

New Agey floof will say wave some sage around.

Totally workable and usually very succesful approach and one of the fastest in achieving "problem" resolutions.

In the same vein is the approach followed by Truman Cash and the best book that explains the mechanics of that approach is given in "Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health" provided one has a partner one can trust to do it with. Also, it's best to find a copy of that book in editions from before the 80s. Used book stores should have plenty of them.

One just needs to translate "emotional" and "pain" bodies into compartments of the "mind" to pick one's way through semantics meanders. Especially when "emotional" and "pain" bodies get all mixed up when pains are due to flagrant injustices leading one into the "victim" frame of "mind."

[modwiz]

A quick clarification about the New Age. There were some early pioneers in what became the New Age. Like a corporation that starts out to just make good products that serve their customers with great integrity the New Age began with good intentions and great information that represented the uncloaking of old knowledge brought to light again. Many a good practice that is now common came from the New Age. Hippies burned incense to create atmosphere and cover other odors. Incense and sage are now more often used for energy management and clearing. I am referring to the New Age industry when I speak disparagingly. Medicine and doctors were once highly respected. Doctors were people of integrity. We live in a world where once a "brand" is created in any field the sharks come in for the kill. Profit becomes everything. A good idea that is making a living is corrupted into an industry designed for making a killing. The success and true value of the New Age was an early target. Not only was there plenty of money to be pulled out of peoples pockets, there was energy and control. New Age became a religion. What else needs to be said after that statement? So my condemnation of the New Age is of what it is. What is has become. Many of us are old enough to have begun the path before it became inherently corrupted.

I thought clarifying that point was important. Whitefeather made me think of that with his post.

[modwiz]

Here's a non new agey approach.

Pick one thing in your life that keeps re-occuring. Usually unpleasant.

Frex, you constantly struggle with keeping a job, finances, etc.

You keep getting in relationships with seemingly the same person over and over again.

the same circumstances keep happening over and over again.

First realizing this and then pinpointing back to where that all start is initiating in self clearing process.

New Agey floof will say wave some sage around.

Totally workable and usually very succesful approach and one of the fastest in achieving "problem" resolutions.

In the same vein is the approach followed by Truman Cash and the best book that explains the mechanics of that approach is given in "Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health" provided one has a partner one can trust to do it with. Also, it's best to find a copy of that book in editions from before the 80s. Used book stores should have plenty of them.

One just needs to translate "emotional" and "pain" bodies into compartments of the "mind" to pick one's way through semantics meanders. Especially when "emotional" and "pain" bodies get all mixed up when pains are due to flagrant injustices leading one into the "victim" frame of "mind."

The engram, from Dianetics was where I began working on myself before the subtle anatomy was known to me. Understanding of the engram concept allows one to dig in and find "the crazy" LOL. Pain body is a subset, and contained, within the emotional body. The emotional body is just a part of our subtle anatomy. I cannot emphasize it importance enough. In an above post I speak to the coldness that is present in the absence of an emotional body or where one is atrophied. The pain body is an unsettled, energetic pathology of the emotional body. It represents unclosed wounds. I have spoken of the wound metaphor before and will again in my larger post coming a little later.

[AwakeInADream]

Modwiz, did you ever achieve what was termed 'revery' in the Dianetics book?
(I read that it was the engrams that stopped a person from achieving full clarity of vision and hence a perfect photographic memory)
Or did you unravel your engrams with the inner eye only?
(I could never get that 'revery' thing to work, but then maybe the inner eye will suffice...)

[DeDukshyn]

Here's a non new agey approach.

Pick one thing in your life that keeps re-occuring. Usually unpleasant.

Frex, you constantly struggle with keeping a job, finances, etc.

You keep getting in relationships with seemingly the same person over and over again.

the same circumstances keep happening over and over again.

First realizing this and then pinpointing back to where that all start is initiating in self clearing process.

New Agey floof will say wave some sage around.

I will add this: correcting things requires what may be considered a psychological "shift" in the masses. As far as I see things, this is the only way, but the effects will be manifold. Thanks for the thread Modwiz.

[Jeffrey]

From a physics-based, scientific standpoint, the entire universe is energy.

Also, from a spirituality based, metaphysical standpoint, the entire universe is energy.

It's all connected, this isn't supposed to be some esoteric cliche. It really is all connected (each layer influences another and so on, it's a complex system but the concepts aren't all that complicated).

[...]

The radicular cause of matter may be related to how energy (at an indistinct, fine, basal level) interacts with the very geometry of space. Here we have two important, rudimentary factors -- pure energy and the geometry of space [which may be torsional, or gyred].

[...]

Science has detected all that it's methods and gadgets will allow. It's gadgets are becoming more refined, and I think that's exciting.

Think of a speck of dust landing on your arm. You can't feel it, but it's there. The body's method of measuring physical sensations of pressure aren't nearly fine enough to detect something so subtle. Similarly, science has yet to fully uncover and explore any energy beyond the range of it's instruments. They have begun their journey of gaining understanding about the nature of the cosmos from a gross perspective. There are other scientists that have begun their journey of gaining understanding about the way of things from a subtle, refined vantage point. These are the ancient yogis, the seers, the shamans, and the modern wizards.

[...]

Anything that matters has a field.

Atoms have fields.

Chemistry is based on how these fields interact.

Biology is based on chemistry.

Fields affect the body, emotions affect the fields.

Emotions are physiologically linked to chemicals. They can be viewed as carriers of an emotion.

Is the emotion in the carrier, or in the field?

Zooming in, on a rudimentary level, it boils down to how the energy is behaving.

Fields affect fields in varying degrees. The body produces a field, as do atoms, chemicals, thoughts, and emotions (at least the electrochemical aspect of them).

I'm cross posting.

:)

I feel like this video bears merit in this thread. I am currently working on a commentary for it which I will add to a post in another thread.

FvSOR0hvHrk

[There is overlapping dialogue around 9:30 to 11:00 minutes but it goes away.]

[CD7]

A quick clarification about the New Age. There were some early pioneers in what became the New Age. Like a corporation that starts out to just make good products that serve their customers with great integrity the New Age began with good intentions and great information that represented the uncloaking of old knowledge brought to light again. Many a good practice that is now common came from the New Age. Hippies burned incense to create atmosphere and cover other odors.

Glad u brought this up....it is true tht alot of different practices sprouted out of the "new age" movement tht had/have a great deal of benefit to the community...individual.

[Reaver]

Metyphysics is nonsense, but even then it must be serving some purpose, otherwise, why would it have existed for so long?

Are we even on the same page when the term Metaphysics is used? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics



Man finds himself helpless in a strange world, unfamiliar - not only unknown, but unknowable to boot. This darkness, this cloud of unknowing, disturbs the human mind tremendously. Somehow man consoles himself. Somehow he has to create knowledge. Something he can cling to... Something he can identify with... Otherwise, the reality will hit him squarely in the face - the reality that he doesn't know who he is, this will drive him into madness - at least that is the fear that his thinking mind will use to prod him into creating more & more nonsense around himself.

Yeah that could be some messed up extreme. BUT... if the world was truly unknowable then you wouldn't be able to use a computer to write your posts. The universe IS Knowable, whether we have the capacity to process it all or not is a different matter altogether. We have different tools to explore different areas of the Microcosmos and the Macrocosmos, if both of them were unknowable then we would be lucky to live in the stone age. This quote expresses it nicely:


The cosmos did not design itself according to data; it was designed on the basis of logic. If you wanted to understand a computer program, would you study the output of the program or the code of the program itself? Scientists have attempted to work back from the data to the program; philosophers have tried to understand the program with little regard to its output. The proper approach is to come at the problem from both angles at the same time.
Which points us towards the Synthesis that Modwiz was talking about.


Even if that knowledge is not true knowledge, it will give the appearance that one is grounded. It will give the appearance that one is not so helpless. One pretends through it, pretends to know, pretends to be a knower, a knowledgeable intellectual, that he is not such a stranger to himself, to the world he finds himself in... and creates a false illusion of power in the process.
Aye, you could find yourself there. Then again if you want to get really philosophical about it, then this is the kind of thing which creates a conflict, an Thesis vs an Antithesis, without such conflict you'd be unable and incapable of making any progress. From where "I'm standing" it seems that humanity has being going through philosophical war of sorts... Irrationality vs Rationality, Apollo vs Dionysus. Fail either polarity and insanity is sure to follow. So again a Synthesis is needed, a Synthesis which allows a human being to process a healthy Irrationality and a healthy Rationality... or a healthy balance between the right and left brain as Modwiz put it.


Words are spells only out of ignorance. Only out of a belief that they are powerful.
Nope. Words can also be spells which come out of Wisdom. For more on the power of words: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?49156-Language-as-Magic "Words have power" is more than a mere cliche.


Awareness is enough to put an end to a bad dream.
To a bad dream maybe, but not to our current condition. Awareness is one step of the process, but never the whole.


Against holism and perhaps also synthesis, which has the word synthetic hidden in it, apropos of artificial, not natural or genuine, contrived.
No, the kind of Synthesis Modwiz is talking about has nothing to do with the word Synthetic. Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic#Hegelian_dialectic


If the mind could grow, cultivate or have an ego imposed on them, then the emo body could create a pain body. Both are defense mechanisms that run out of control eventually. Unfortunately the ego starts a relationship with the pain body that is based mostly on sadism.
For more on this I highly recommend Erich Fromm's book "Escape From Freedom" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_from_Freedom)


Here's a non new agey approach.

Pick one thing in your life that keeps re-occuring. Usually unpleasant.

Frex, you constantly struggle with keeping a job, finances, etc.

You keep getting in relationships with seemingly the same person over and over again.

the same circumstances keep happening over and over again.

First realizing this and then pinpointing back to where that all start is initiating in self clearing process.

New Agey floof will say wave some sage around.
If anyone is interested in gaining a deeper understanding of this dynamic: http://www.sanctuaryweb.com/reenactment.php

Psychology is another element which should be integrated in the life on the individual and on the systems which are designed for society. If anything the western world (with it's predominant mechanistic approach) did create a very useful tool which integrates Reason with Magical Thinking in Psychology. Then again you must be careful when studying it because many people these days only get a stupid degree and parrot what they were told to parrot. The bright side is that you need no degrees to study psychology, a Psyche would do the trick and since people have one of those integrated... well you get the idea.

[WhiteFeather]

modwiz, i am delving more and more into metaphysics in that my solitary journey wants to learn more.
where do i begin?
i have been looking online at mystery schools to find out what the course outline is, so that i can just do some learning on my own. i suppose this is where i can ask for assistance?

many thanks to you all - thank you modwiz for starting this thread. i have been working hard to be balance, without polarity. it was sure challenging during that time of pure hormones...

LOL:wizard:

9eagle has given you the deeper reply to your answer. I will answer the shorter question about the subtle anatomy. I say the shorter answer becuase once you have the basic layout of of the subtle anatomy ther is just the care a feeding of it after that. The divinatory/revelatory tools of tarot, numerology, astrology and tree of life are how you make the information of the subtle bodies dynamic and useful.

Some of the best books on this subject for me are no longer in print. They can be found used. The few New editions are in the hundreds of dollars. They are "Gem Elixirs and Vibrational Healing Vol1 and Vol.2 and Flower Essences and Vibrational Healing. These books address the subtle anatomy in some considerable depth because gem elixirs and flower essences address this part of our anatomy. The early chapters lay the groundwork so that the later information on gem elixirs and flower essences can be understood. These books are very metaphysical but not difficult reading. Amazon carries used versions of them.

Rad are these one of the books you were referencing. I did a search and found this one on Pdf format.

www.pegasusproducts.com/pdf/WebReadyGem.pdf

Sorry....its just a reference book on crystals, gemstones and elixirs. Looks resourceful though.

[mosquito]

Where Science and Spirituality meet.

Metaphysics, as can be seen from the definition so kindly provided above, has, as a term evolved (like just about everything else) from what it was oiriginaly intended to mean. And I confess that I have always thought of it as meaning "the study of that which comes after/beyond the physical".

Before I say what I wish to add to the discussion, let me just say something about myself: I fluctuate between being able to express myself clearly in words, and being able to only write gibberish, so I hope that I can be in the former state for however long it takes me to write. I've worked in I.T. using low-level languages, so have a well developed, almost binary type sense of logic. But I studied Chinese Medicine, and from then on became much more right-brained and wholistic thinking, which has become greatly increased since living in China and attempting to learn the language. I've also studied science (mainly biology) at degree level, and done quite a lot of self-study of modern physics. If I could wave a magic wand and manifest the money to afford an eduucation in the modern world, Bio-Physics is what I'd study. I can visualize many things which would be considered metaphysical, but cannot adequately express them in words.

Sorry for the preamble, but I needed to say it. Anyway ........ Science/Philosophy have created (not maliciously) a split in our knowledge base - physics/metaphysics, natural/supernatural. But in truth THERE IS NO metaphysics (meaning that beyond Physics) nor any supernatural. The boundary between the 2 is completely changing, as the study of physics advances, our understanding advances, and that which was previously considered mystical becomes more clearly understood. Similarly, as Biology advances (considerably more slowly than Physics), that which was previously considered "supernatural" becomes understood, and therefore seen as perfectly "natural".

My hope (as expressed in Ilie's F.E. thread) is that we will eventually reach the stage where knowledge is knowledge; there will no longer be divisions, no longer be hierarchies of knowledge, we will have a complete understanding of who we are and our place in the universe.

Thanks for this thread, let's hope it lives longer than most of the good threads here !!

[modwiz]

I am aware that two other threads have begun on the forum pertaining to the New Age, which I will abbreviate NA if referred to in future postings. I think this is good because the NA has profoundly impacted the last two decades. There is much most of us owe to the pioneers of it and the culture that sprang from it. Like the hippie culture and the alternative press it has been infiltrated deeply. The types who do this will often occupy places of influence. It is how the game is played. It is also where the money to be had is. Please do not make me have to issue a disclaimer after every statement I make. I am counting on people to know I am not speaking in absolutes but generalities. It is how life is. Black and white are the termini for the pendulum swings with most action and reality occurring in between these two points. Who is genuine? By their fruits you will know them.

An interesting kind of black and white scenario germane to this conversation of metaphysics is the concept of tradition.

In the martial arts, it was standard practice, in the East, to have to earn ones way into a school. The concept of proper temperament and appreciation for a time honored practice was very important. There were all kinds of stories of how long and what people did to get accepted into a good school/dojo/dojang/kwoon. To our Western mind this kind of tradition look both ridiculous and abusive. To most of us. My take is that the Eastern and Western attitude about this reflects those points of the pendulum swing I mentioned earlier. I think respect for a good teacher and tradition is something missing from Western culture, but not quite to the degree of washing floors and sleeping at the entrance of the school in Winter. ;) To be sure sons of those with money usually found an easier road because to resist such customers often resulted in "bad luck" for a teacher with integrity. Corruption from the top is not a new phenomenon. Hopefully it will soon be an old one.

This same circumstance of earning entrance to a school pertained to the mystery schools as well. In one instance you were being taught deadly combat skills and in the other you were taught how the cosmos worked. Also, administration skills were also part of this training. What was once considered a rounded classical education came out of these schools minus the esoterica. The Illuminati represent the "dark side" breakaway faction from the bigger Gnostic "Jedi Knights". Indulge me here. It was what are now known as the Illuminati (boo) that through underhandedness, lack of integrity and psychopathic natures, captured the upper hand and have done all they can to keep any challenges as dead as possible. Literally. The Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars of France was the one of the last big battles fought for dominance of Europe and the world.

I'd call that a prologue but it was really just horizontal addressing of the larger subject.

Ok, the emotional body discussion and why it has been a focus as the opener of this thread. We have a subtle anatomy, energetic layers, associated with different mixtures of chakras, that overlay or interpenetrate the physical body. Choosing the most apt term here is a balance between accuracy and understanding. There are good discussions of kundalini in Viveks thread, but in brief there are currents that ascend and descend along the spine. It is very valid to think in terms of a musical scale, if that sort of information speaks to you. A healthy fully fuctioning person will have their notes in harmony with each other. The white notes of a piano are a case in point. The black notes will sound dissonant to varying degrees. Some will add a somber tone and others will be quite unpleasant. This would be the frequency overlay of looking at vibrational health. Now, along with frequency there is also volume or intensity. One could play a scale or sound a chord in such a way as to have one note sound louder than the others. This is a different kind of imbalance. The phrase, "too much of a good thing" is apropos here. The emotional body is one of the notes in our subtle body anatomical system. It gets rung a lot. In the case of media and advertising this is done on purpose. In relationships this is often the case but it is not done on the conscious level as much. Sociopaths tend to consciously carry hammers to smack this part of people.

As I mentioned before subtle bodies and chakras are intimately related. Chakras and the endocrine system are basically interface points between etheric/non-physical subtle anatomy and the physio/chemical body.

Now, for many adults, preexisting conditions pertaining to growing up and the patterns they form haunt us and create patterns of powerlessness that get repeated and become part of our energetic signature. These ongoing experiences reinforce concepts we have about ourselves. They lie in the pain body of the emotional body. These wounds become semi-permanent. We get protective of these soft spots. We seek to protect anymore pressure or hits on these areas. Furthermore, powerlessness makes one want to show they are not, and one step further is the fear of being taken advantage of or made a fool because it only reinforces our powerlessness and that hurts! :doh: This last point is a big contributor to defensiveness.

One manifestation of defensive behavior is to comb through spoken or written words looking for insults and/or slights. This is very self centered behavior. This is a descriptive and not pejorative statement. So, words intended for many can seem directed at the seeker of insults. This is the world of the pain body. One suffers very much alone. It is one of the reasons misery loves company. The isolation is temporarily suspended.

The problem with dominant emotional bodies besides imbalance is they create "noise" in discussions where the mental body is where the action is. The mental body is largely cool and dispassioned. "Did you call me an asshole?" (Yawn) That is where actual words are used. Where the insults are not spoken, not intended or imagined the mental body would not even take notice of them. They are not part of data accumulation. The mental body seeks to build, connect and just ride the air currents of the higher mind. In a forum where the focus is a discussion and exchange of ideas, we are best served by bringing our mental body to the table. Bringing the emotional body is like bringing a child to a dinner party. It might behave, it might get bored and fall asleep or.............. Nuf said?

To close this post let me clarify something. I only discussed the problem of the emotional body and specifically the pain body part of it. The child metaphor was meant to broaden the image somewhat. A healthy and balanced emotional body is a joy to experience. The pulses of energy that radiate from such a person are a delight and can lift a border line depressed person into a better place. Still, feelings are for feeling and not discussing. The wonderful feeling is to be experienced. A few words of how wonderful, nice, good someone feels would suffice. Further discussion would not really work. That's why there is poetry and why so few understand it. :P

With regards to the mental body, I am not lauding it, but simply mentioning it as the best energetic body to bring to a discussion of ideas and concepts. Concepts and ideas translate fairly well into language. Language was invented just for that purpose..........mainly.
In an above post of mine from another thread I mentioned how the descriptions of off planet races generally show different subtle body profiles. The scientists types, not unlike our own, can perform all kinds of painful/invasive procedures and are quite undisturbed or moved by ones discomfort, however extreme. This is a mental body predominance, the empathy that is a function of the emotional body is absent.
The reptilian profile is complicated, probably because it is actually more basic. Somewhat of a paradox.
Then you have what are considered the more advanced races and there we find emotional and mental bodies in harmony. Great intellect coupled with deep empathy. This combination leads to a form of wisdom. Part of having the mental and emotional bodies in harmony is it allows the properties of the higher frequency spiritual body and then causal body to be part of the greater psychological make up. This would be a form of us before "a fall". This is not meant in a religious sense, but our many planetary histories all make mention of one. Golden ages existed before "the fall". This post is an attempt to address problems we as a society need to address to access higher functioning aspects of ourselves. I do it for a better dialogue and understanding of ourselves and each other. Our friends and family need us to be our best. We deserve it and so do they. So does society and the planet. So does the galaxy. We are part of a greater whole and all of the parts need to function well. Optimally if possible. To know thyself is a start.

[modwiz]

Rad are these one of the books you were referencing. I did a search and found this one on Pdf format.

www.pegasusproducts.com/pdf/WebReadyGem.pdf

Sorry....its just a reference book on crystals, gemstones and elixirs. Looks resourceful though.

This is a product catalogue based on the elixirs and essences found in the books. The descriptions are good for what they do. The book goes into greater depth about them and explains charkas, subtle bodies and physical systems and organs. Meridians from TCM are also often used. It is the chapters preceding the actual descriptions that contain the most information, laying the needed mental groundwork for what then was quite new conceptually. Bach's flower remedies were the first out but the detailed explanations were not there. Interestingly, Bach remedies address largely emotional body issues. Although, the subtle bodies do not exist in isolation but are part of a rainbow of energies. Imagine a rainbow with one color much brighter or the band much wider and one can get an idea of subtle body balance and the "geometry" of it.

I would recommend getting what you can from the pdf. The remedies are very reasonably priced.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

What is often theory, belief, or superstition to one can be hard fact to another. The difference being in training, practice, and disciplined inquiry. I have occasionally been ridiculed for my "beliefs" by people who have their own beliefs based on piecing ideas and anecdotes together rather than actually doing the hard work necessary to discover for themselves what is real and what is not. These people generally fall into the category of those who consider themselves "scientific" and "rational". One of my closest friends is in that crowd.

I once said to him,"No, I don't believe in things I cannot see. I believe in things that YOU cannot see."

[modwiz]

I just read and corrected my post above for spelling. I see room for some expansion, but at 1500+ words it will have to stay as it is. Hopefully discussion will provide places for me to insert some information about the charkra/endocrine system and neuro-hormones and states of mind/mood. Although, Deepak Chopra has written on this subject as well as anybody ever will.

[Mark]

Good stuff, I'm in the middle of a household move, so my participation will be generally brief and to the point for a while.

Etymology: the study of the history of words, their origins, and how their form and meaning have changed over time.

It is very important that we use words precisely. Because words have meaning. But what is interesting about those meanings, is that words retain their original meaning, no matter what the new context or definition is. I'll use a very difficult example, just to show the power of words and how the understood meaning can change over time, but how the original meaning sometimes subtly and sometimes grossly can influence the new meaning.

N*gger --> Currently a derogatory or celebratory term used to either denigrate or compliment
Negro --> English --> Member of a black-skinned race of Africa
Negro --> Spanish, Portugese --> Black (as above)
Niger/Nigrum --> Latin --> Black, dark, sable, dusky, gloomy, unlucky, bad, wicked
Niger --> Ibo (W. African language) --> King; Niger-ia (also, N-ga) --> Queen; N-ger-s --> the Goddess Neggur (Hathor); Nugarmatta --> people of the Ghana (W. African) Empire
Naga --> Sanskrit --> Serpent deities in Hinduism and Buddhism; Aboriginal peoples of various Southeast Asian origins
N-g'r/Net-ger/Neter --> Egyptian --> God, gods and goddesses

In the context of Metaphysics and this most excellent thread, the words we choose to use to express ourselves are often indicative of where our level of understanding currently is. We are all ignorant, period. Lots of stuff we don't know. Life is a learning process and we are Works in progress. Because English has loan words from many language, the difficulty in knowing the origins of all of the words we use is self-evident. But since words have power, and we often lend personal power to the terms we use through the channeling of our own emotional/pain bodies in the phrases, sentences and postings that we add to the conversations we engage in, the spells we create for and against each other are very clear to those intimately familiar with words and with casting.

Quantum biology supports the notion of entanglement through interaction, minds intertwining, interwoven and interacting. We are, effectively, reaching into others when we speak or write. When we read, we are bringing others into ourselves. As we consider ideas expressed, we are co-creating a current and shared understanding of a form of reality that is specific to the spells we are co-casting, to the Great Work of Alchemy, personal transformation in the spiritual sense.

The sovereignty movement has a correct understanding of the power of words. The Elite have a correct understanding of the power of words. Metaphysicians have a correct understanding of the power of words. Words spoken begin as discursiveness within the brain, the little voice speaking within, for some, a constant chatter, for others who have worked on it utilizing meditative techniques - and who have, perhaps, experienced Kensho/Satori/Enlightenment/Grace events - that discursiveness has been stilled to a greater or lesser degree, and so the words they speak are supremely effective to the extent that they always say exactly what they mean. No more and no less.


This is key insight and makes me want to mention intent.

Intent decides how this power moves.

On reflection "decides" isn't the right word, they sort of happen simultaneously, intent and the movement of the wheels of the universe associate with that intent happen out of time.


Words can work magic upon us, cast spells, when you read certain people's writing, the precise, formulaic expression reads like a mathematical equation. When you read other people's writing, it reads more like a stream-of-consciousness ramble. Neither of which is good or bad, they just are, but much of the bickering that we fall prey to comes down to either an incorrect reading of the words and a correct reading of the intent behind the words or the correct reading of the words but an incorrect reading of the intent behind the words. The key word in the preceding sentence is intent, which is important, as John stated. That is where the power lies that imbues the words with energy.

If we are seeking to build something together, to create, to understand and move higher, together, then the intent will be clear and will infuse all conversations begun and carried out in this vein with a resonant vibratory frequency that will attract the kind of energy this thread was designed for.

And vice versa. Being careful with our words should be just par the course. Understanding what we are saying and really meaning when we share is not only considerate of others but shows a strong sense of self-respect. The emotional/pain body does indeed just get in the way. Clear communication is paramount, especially on this topic of utmost importance.

[Anchor]

The act of mindfully uttering a word or writing a word, is ritual.

Getting ritual right takes effort. Ritual is performed to a standard that one has adopted. It doesn't have to be the same standard for everyone, but the more there is in common the better it works. Obviously for language - you have to speak the same language, or the magic of transfer/energy exchange is largely lost.

Ritual is the basis of a lot of magic. When we speak or write, we are engaged in ritual at some level, because we are conforming to an accepted standard practice.

This is why I think that communication in written or spoken form is magic - especially considering with speech, all the steps that are involved from taking a concept (thoughts) in my mind as a mini-thought form, rendering that down into vibrations in the air, through the instruments of our brain and voice, and then rendered into approximate facsimiles of the thoughtform in the mind of the listener having interpreted physical vibrations of their ear; or the more cognitive act of reading words that have been written by another.

With words, ones audience needs to have subscribed to the same "ritual" form of communication (obviously language).

Also to remind - that older unchanging, so called dead languages, are used for more "precise" purposes as the meaning of the words is invariant and rituals will be given or encoded in "dead" languages so they work the same through time.


John..

[modwiz]

Modwiz, did you ever achieve what was termed 'revery' in the Dianetics book?
(I read that it was the engrams that stopped a person from achieving full clarity of vision and hence a perfect photographic memory)
Or did you unravel your engrams with the inner eye only?
(I could never get that 'revery' thing to work, but then maybe the inner eye will suffice...)

Here is how it worked for me. I picked up the book Dianetics at someones house. Just opened the book randomly and began reading. At most I read a few pages. IIRC, and it was a basic explanation of an engram. That was that, never held the book again. I used to have a long train commute going to work. 2 hours. I would nap/think/process thoughts. Some of these thoughts would make me break out in a sweat and my breathing would increase. Often these were inner altercations with people. It was then I saw "the crazy" in my behavior. Here I was sitting comfortably on a train, completely safe and unmolested, yet my body was reacting to what was playing in my head. The body either does not know the difference between physical and non-physical or consciousness is doing very misunderstood things with reality. Whatever the case, I learned to "mind my mind". The natural stress of my forebears was not mine. I was creating things in my head. I was having fights with people not present. For me, that was crazy behavior. To release adrenaline into my system while sitting safe and sound was inexcusable for me. It still happens from time to time but is caught almost as it begins. I sense packages being sent into my field to produce stress. Something wants a meal. Don Juan speaks eloquently on this.

The engram concept is brilliant in its simplicity and impact for greater clarity. IMO, Scientology was infiltrated when its power to change the world for the better was perceived. With Ron gone it had no protector.

The great lights of humanity have been few. Even the closest disciples often end up not "getting it". If they do they will be bought off (in which case they didn't really "get it") or will be killed. Proximity to greatness seems of little consequence. It doesn't rub off. You can't just get some on you.

[Ultima Thule]

Modwiz, you in short made a comparison of off-world-subtle bodies, some overly mental, some balanced.

I´m thinking a possibility of Yin-Yang-polarity between emotional and mental bodies - in the end, is the capacity of the mental body and characteristics of it limited to the capacity of emotional body? The very thing with the emotional body, that can be seen as a big problem, ie. the uncontrolled firing of it, could it be the indicator of its enormous capacity that can parallel and accompany the mental body into unprecedented heights? The harmony between the two raising their frequency together - could it be what is the very potential in us humans?

UT

[Gekko]

I wonder if there is a connection between excess visceral fat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visceral_fat#Abdominal_fat) and the emotional/pain body, citing a possible connection to stress and cortisol in its accumulation? Furthermore, a connection to a particular chakra (sacral chakra comes to mind)?


An excess of visceral fat is known as central obesity, or "belly fat", in which the abdomen protrudes excessively. Excess visceral fat is also linked to type 2 diabetes, insulin resistance, inflammatory diseases, and other obesity-related diseases.

[modwiz]

Modwiz, you in short made a comparison of off-world-subtle bodies, some overly mental, some balanced.

I´m thinking a possibility of Yin-Yang-polarity between emotional and mental bodies - in the end, is the capacity of the mental body and characteristics of it limited to the capacity of emotional body? The very thing with the emotional body, that can be seen as a big problem, ie. the uncontrolled firing of it, could it be the indicator of its enormous capacity that can parallel and accompany the mental body into unprecedented heights? The harmony between the two raising their frequency together - could it be what is the very potential in us humans?

UT

IMO, yes. The emotional/mental balance is where the richness is. My example would be the mental body as an artist renders things in exquisite detail. Black and white/grayscale. Everything is there, except color. Emotions are the color, the flavor the scent. I would say the five physical senses align with he emotional body strongly with vision being a very mental sense but we all know the sight can evoke powerful emotional response.

As mentioned in my post, the proper balance/focus or lensing as I like to call it, creates a pathway to higher states. Two notes producing a chord which is greater than the sum of its parts.

[mosquito]

.... Because English has loan words from many languages ......

Actually it has little else !!!!!

An excellent post thank you. On the same topic, we fall into all kinds of traps when we attempt to translate between languages of radically different families. When the opportunity arises on this thread to illustrate what I mean (which it surely will) I'll attempt to throw some light on the matter. But here's an example ....

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?34163-Ancient-hidden-symbols-the-Key-of-Soloman-Human-origins&p=349306&viewfull=1#post349306

[modwiz]

I wonder if there is a connection between excess visceral fat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visceral_fat#Abdominal_fat) and the emotional/pain body, citing a possible connection to stress and cortisol in its accumulation? Furthermore, a connection to a particular chakra (sacral chakra comes to mind)?


An excess of visceral fat is known as central obesity, or "belly fat", in which the abdomen protrudes excessively. Excess visceral fat is also linked to type 2 diabetes, insulin resistance, inflammatory diseases, and other obesity-related diseases.

Your mind is working well. The sacral chakra has two homes in the body. In Western bodies it is said to find its home in the part of the body where women have their ovaries. This placement is more about (pro)creativity/sexuality and has obvious ties with the emotional body through the intimacy sex can produce. Furthermore, orange is a mixture of red and yellow. Yellow associated with the 3rd chakra and lower intellect and emotional body. The 3rd charka is where things get messy.
In Eastern esoteric traditions, the second chakra aligns with the pancreas/spleen. The pancreas produces insulin and it the organ that produces diabetes when stresses or unbalanced.
I am of the mind that once one widens ones perspective that regarding the 2nd chakra as the gonadal/pancreas/speen chakra works well. However, there are people who will choose one over the other. I once worked on a woman for chakra energy work. Things were very scattered with her 2nd chakra. I shared with her that her orange energy did not know whether it wanted to reside in her uterine area or spleen. She confided in me she was considering being a celibate.

Your wondering about a connection with what you mention is very sound to me. Body types will often shift dramatically with a shift in a subtle body. Matter follows energy.

[Ultima Thule]

The thing in a nutshell with the visceral fat is whether you are sensitive to insulin(insulin effective so to say) or rather leaning towards insulin resistance. This will determine what you will do with the energy that you receive from your nutrition - concerning especially carbohydrates(refined kind). Whether you will utilize them (and have plenty of energy available for action and stay lean) or store them as fat(get fat, have no energy) is derived by your insulin level. This will escalate into other hormonal functions either functioning well or being down regulated into hibernation mode.

I haven´t found a reasonable explanation as to why certain individual is more inclined to insulin resistance - especially when thinking an infant will copy this tendency from his/her mother from the time of the gestation period, therefore not being genetic, but rather energetic? So I´m more than willing to be with you guys on this - the emotional body being a major factor in determining how your physical body is functioning. I would think emotional body would be something very much replicated from the mother. Emotion-carrying substances are also known to cross into the child via umbilical cord. As the scientist-fellows in Viveks recommended video(earlier post here) say(my words): a higher frequency determines how the lower, material levels play out.

An excellent video by the way, spelling out a lot of substance into homeopathy among other things.

UT

[AwakeInADream]

The engram concept is brilliant in its simplicity and impact for greater clarity. IMO, Scientology was infiltrated when its power to change the world for the better was perceived. With Ron gone it had no protector.


I agree!:) Mr Hubbard sure knew his stuff.

Here's a link to the book for anyone that might want to take a look:
http://scientology-london.com/extra/Dianetics_The_Modern_Science_Of_Mental_Health.pdf

[9eagle9]

I once said to him,"No, I don't believe in things I cannot see. I believe in things that YOU cannot see."


That is no longer belief then, that is knowing wrought from experience. I agree that people who can't see the experience tend to dismiss it.

For my part I get attacked for having the experience in the first place....lol. But that doesn't do anything to the experience. Or magically make it all go away.

We are metaphysical in nature. Science gets wrong footed about that part that can't be explained by material science. WE are in part material and science serves us well , very well on our material levels.

Psychological sciences are somewhat limited by their own ceilings but hasn't done a half bad job if one can see through the abuse rampant there that exists everyplace else. We would be poorer off without it.

Spirit doesn't exist in some people. They may have a consciousness but that's it. There's no ultimate animation to them or if there is they've disconnected from it. To them material science is all that is needed. Some people are just a brain, operating a bag of flesh. Material science is the only thing they require. They have no connection to anything else.

For the metaphysical being a little more is required. The metaphysical being doesn't dismiss material science nor even use it to explain the non material. You can't. There are similarities there. In the natural world though, the material world, the natural world can be a translator of what occurs on the 'unseen' non-material level.

For people whose metaphysical density pretty much starts and stops at the consciousness level no much more is required than an understanding of consciousness.

The difference between higher intelligence and higher academia.

Vivek's threads on psyche have clearly demonstrated for me on a material level why some people can't experience 'unseen' things. They were literally not created, equipped, built, designed, however you want to put it, to do so. we are then asking certain people to learn to play baseball when they don't have any arms to throw or catch with.

Which causes conflict. They want to know why some are seeing unseen things, and we are wondering why the hell they can't.



What is often theory, belief, or superstition to one can be hard fact to another. The difference being in training, practice, and disciplined inquiry. I have occasionally been ridiculed for my "beliefs" by people who have their own beliefs based on piecing ideas and anecdotes together rather than actually doing the hard work necessary to discover for themselves what is real and what is not. These people generally fall into the category of those who consider themselves "scientific" and "rational". One of my closest friends is in that crowd.

I once said to him,"No, I don't believe in things I cannot see. I believe in things that YOU cannot see."

[9eagle9]

You mean insulating one's self from what is bothering you? Whether it is external or internal?


Yes. Diabetes itself is a symptom of emotional distress.

Something that is bothering you regardless if you are cognizant of it or not will create stress. Stress creates cortisol. Cortisol creates the conditions for fat.

Behaviors such as patterns of comfort eating and comfort starving come from this. Conditions like your body apparently defying the laws of caloric energy. You can diet as much as you want, and eat 400 calories a day and burn off 4000 of them, and your excess fat doesn't go away. That means one's fat is not purely a physical event from unhealthy eating, or over indulgence.


I wonder if there is a connection between excess visceral fat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visceral_fat#Abdominal_fat) and the emotional/pain body, citing a possible connection to stress and cortisol in its accumulation? Furthermore, a connection to a particular chakra (sacral chakra comes to mind)?


An excess of visceral fat is known as central obesity, or "belly fat", in which the abdomen protrudes excessively. Excess visceral fat is also linked to type 2 diabetes, insulin resistance, inflammatory diseases, and other obesity-related diseases.

[soleil]

thank you all for this thread. i am trying to grasp the concepts, and i understand the context.

on a side note: I once said to him,"No, I don't believe in things I cannot see. I believe in things that YOU cannot see."
best quote i read today. :)

[9eagle9]

Watching people try to think, reason or rationalize with their emotional bodies is funny (in a sad way..lol).

To watch them try to FEEL with their mental bodies is even worse.

That catch phrase " I don't care what people think about me ' holds true. If it's true. If you are holding this as only a thought and not really feeling it its just self deception. One should never 'feel' anything from another's mental process.

How one thinks about another seldom has anything to do how you feel about them.

[another bob]

Most metaphysical systems are invariably built upon, or serve to confirm, some sense of personal self, or individual doer-ship. However, upon investigation, it can be recognized that this sense of "self" derives from a misreading or misinterpretation of the causes and conditions of experience.

Afraid of death and the possibility of our personal nonexistence, we desperately impute and cling to permanence where there is none, imagining that something permanent underlies the flux of experiential conditions. Rather than recognize causes and conditions for what they are, we hypostatize their obvious effects, often deeming these hypostatized "entities" to be more real than what we encounter in actual experience.

Thus the notion of "self" is symptomatic of our deepest desires and fears. Transcending that view by recognizing that all that comes into existence does so dependent on perpetually changing causes and conditions is to see things as they actually are, beyond our conceptual constructs that over time have become rigidified into various human metaphysical systems.

Furthermore, most metaphysical systems tend to fall into fixed propositions of either "eternalism" or "annihilationalism," or to put in other terms, "continuity" or "discontinuity." However, things (e.g., the world, persons, etc.) are neither continuous nor discontinuous. Neither the world nor the things in it endure unchanging and endlessly; nor is the world a random, discontinuous, fragmented happenstance. Things are neither reducible entirely to their specific causative conditions, nor are they ever something other than their conditions. This is the so-called "middle way" between the extremes (or even between the right and left hemispheres of the brain – in fact, once recognized, the “grokking” of this reality will tend to unify them in view and conduct).

This “middle way” represents the elimination of all hypostatic theoretizations, i.e., abstractions which have been concretized to the point of seeming more real than the conditions from which they have been abstracted. However, the problem of hypostatization is not confined to the notion of self in its limited sense of an individual's self-essence, but is apparent everywhere, since all seemingly rational explanations of the way things are, are grounded in conceptual entities that are themselves ultimately unreal. All our fundamental notions, including time, actions (karma) and the agents of action, the characteristics with which things are defined and classified, relations, and so on, all are infiltrated by the notions of "identity" and "difference."

Identity is simply another name for self-essence: a continuous, invariant, self-identical essence. Difference presupposed the very notion of identity that it attempted to negate, since to claim X is different from Y presupposes that X and Y have determinate identities; and if taken seriously such that difference marks the complete absence of all identities, difference would entail such radical discontinuity, disjunction, and lack of intelligibility that even the most mundane things would become incoherent and inexplicable.

Consequently, everything, when seen properly, is devoid of self-essence, and thus "empty." “Emptiness” does not mean nonexistence, a substratum nihilum, or a denial of the world(s) of common experience. Nor does it signify a mystical via negativa. Rather it signifies the absence of something very precise – a concrete and enduring self-essence. It is the self-essence which is unreal, not the flux of conditions (though one must also be careful about hypostatizing "conditions").

Of course, none of this is nearly as significant as the latest round of Kardashian stories. As George Ure recently noted in his Urban Survival report, "we have as a country, managed the difficult transition from steely-eyed hard-working innovators to bleary-eyed corporate couch-potato infotainment-suckers."And so any metaphysical propositions whatsoever are likely to be submerged in the vast rising tide of a dumbed-down populace with attention spans that barely exceed those of goldfish. And even if it were otherwise, and even in the best of circumstances, the mind itself cannot be used to grasp the mind, so there's something to think about!

Regardless of all that, and in the final consideration, if one's philosophical musings have served in eliminating greed, envy, hatred, and arrogance, bolstering one's genuine humility and integrity, and rendering one more capable of giving and receiving love, then it is of value. Otherwise, it merely represents "a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, contortion of views, a writhing of views, a fetter of views. Bound by a fetter of views, the uninstructed ... is not freed, I tell you, from suffering and stress." (Buddha, Sabbasava Sutta)

[Melinda]

Apologies in advance for taking so many words to say what is probably so little.


Post 53, AwakeInADream: “I'm all for a more practical and intellectual approach to spirituality.
I had a dream that basically said 'You must get smarter! You must understand Carmody's post's! They are important!'”

:biggrin: So often I love Carmody’s posts. Even when I don’t understand them yet, I enjoy them - for some reason I may prefer not to fathom, despite having theories about it. Thank you Carmody - in numerous ways :)

When I hear people on the web or in person (not referring to you modwiz) criticise the ‘New Agers,’ I can never be sure exactly who they’re referring to unless they specify who and why. It seems to come down to a wariness of denial in others or ourselves. The idea that our dark aspects or difficult traits can be washed away by simply ‘intending it so’ whilst the right kind of fragrant candle is lit, is obviously a dangerous one. I would think denial, magic and magical thinking have always been dangerous terrains long before the term New Ager became so ubiquitous. The New Age seems to have brought with it a yielding, feminine Yin to counter the abundance of Yang in the world of man. There may be a little New-Ager in all of us. If you’re seeking a moment of comfort, and freedom from the rigours of discipline, it probably makes no difference if you reach for a Lemurian crystal to fondle or the more masculine pleasure of freshly ground organic coffee. With either one you could choose to feel superior to the person who prefers the other, because you felt your given crutch was more ‘real’, honest or authentic compared to the other. Room for denial abounds in us all.

In terms of emotional response and denial, let’s take for example when we choose to laugh in the face of subtlety and call the response ‘down to earth.’ Is it down to earth because the subtlety was lacking in substance and the energy of our laughter injects some, or because the subtlety made a nerve quiver so it had to comfort itself with the physical rooting of laughter – literally pulling us back into our body and to the earth. I remember seeing an excellent film in the cinema years ago, and when the characters began to levitate, flying through the trees, a group of thirty-somethings in the audience burst into mocking laughter. I think it was the laughter of fear that something is so subtle it is more powerful than current understanding allows for, rather than the kind of laughter that injects the practicality of truer wisdom back into the room. But to them, they were simply being ‘down to earth,’ and expressing joy through laughter. New Age commune-dweller, or coffee-consumer cinema-goer, denial is denial and is both tricksy and a tricky thing to spot in ourselves by definition.


Post 64, Modwiz: “Who is genuine? By their fruits you will know them.” Indeed. So it is and always has been.

In terms of humanity’s many potential layers of denial, I’m reminded of something said by Osho, when asked “When did the world go to sleep and is it waking up?”
“It has been always asleep. Only few individuals in the whole history of man have been awakened. Their names can be counted on ten fingers, not more than that. And it was natural. Man has evolved out of the animals. Animals are in a deep sleep. They don’t know that they are. That is the meaning of sleep. One is, but one is not aware that one is. No animal is aware of himself.”

I think (without getting side-tracked by addressing theories of possible ET intervention that may have altered our evolution) he makes interesting points about how sleepy we’ve been throughout commonly acknowledged recorded history. The fact that we are still killing and stealing from each other is a symptom of that sleep. I found the whole monologue an interesting listen. (His slow speed of delivery can in itself slow the whirling brain patterns so prevalent in our fast-paced world.) When I first heard it it was just audio, which I found focused my mind more than the video, but this is the vid : http://youtu.be/3zWh11S7E-I

Coming back to New-Agers, some New Age literature speaks of our ability to manifest (attract) things in the material realm by using the power of our intention; but then goes on to suggest that the reader imagine material acquisitions such as an expensive car, home or a (hopefully less expensive) lover. It’s one thing to acquire enough money to be free of the burden of worrying about money; but another thing altogether if worrying about money has us so debilitated that we see the ‘thing’ as the goal, rather than the freedom to pursue higher realms of thinking that the thing can help give us. I thought I’d raise this, not to wax on to the converted about the pitfalls of materialism, but to think my way over to a point about acquisition within the subtler realms of mind and spirit.


Post 50, Vivek:
“From a physics-based, scientific standpoint, the entire universe is energy.

Also, from a spirituality based, metaphysical standpoint, the entire universe is energy.

It's all connected, this isn't supposed to be some esoteric cliche. It really is all connected.”

[ Thank you for the entire post by the way; the point about science’s understanding being locked in by the limits of its instruments is beautifully commonsensical . ]

Let’s take telekinesis. A character in a John Travolta movie, when asked how he was telekinetically moving an object, replied something like “You sort of ask it to move.” :)

Before I explore telekinesis, it always seems worth reiterating that such skills are of relatively little importance. Learning to love, and responsibly, is always the hardest task. But a world in which these skills return to us as a result of an increase in self-acceptance and love of others, is a beautiful new world worth traveling to. It’s love in the form of heart-felt decency and respect that will truly make this world better, not people making things floaty.

I imagine there are those who’ve tried at some point or another to sit quietly and move an object with their mind, only to find themselves exhausted with failure sooner or later. The way I see it, the temptation in the clutter box, pressure-fueled, pickle jar of dysfunction that is our modern world, is to try and try. But by trying and trying we are separating ourselves more and more from the object we are hoping to move. That’s an example to me of where the magic of words comes in. Trying and trying is not necessarily the same as practice makes perfect. Even if you say the words “try and try” and the word “practice” out loud you can hear the difference. Just try it <he he> The first pair seems to tug a little more, physically. The word “practice” has a flow of air through it, more elongated – and a sparkle at the end :)

But if we wish to move an object, it is possibly of more use to us (at least if we wish to do it with a harmonious balance, rather than in a power-mongering fashion) to see ourselves not as separate from the object we wish to rearrange, or the air we wish to fly through, but as non-visibly connected to it – to see the relationship not as one of ownership (where the object’s sense of self is acquired or the lightness of air overcome by us) but rather as a one of equality and benign collaboration. If we have difficulty imagining ourselves as ‘equal’ to an inanimate household object, it may be because we are viewing it through the ego mind that has been taught, in a materialist culture, to see objects as things we control by acquiring them, and then control by using and discarding them – a shallow ‘master’ perk in our materialist culture. After all, if we see through the lens of a hierarchy where master-manipulators in ivory towers loom above us, then at least we can be sure mere soulless objects are below us on the rungs of temporal power. In a world whose most obvious history is steeped in earth-shattering tragedy and death, we may also associate the word ‘equality’ as something hard-won by the sacrificing of lives for the safeguarding of cherished rights and freedoms. How then can we comfortably share ‘equality’ with a feather or a pen, in wishing to move them through the air? Out pain obstructs our wider view of ourselves.

Language is a powerful tool that can reprogram the mind to integrate concepts or trigger internal releases that are very real. But there are times to be mindful, freeing ourselves from its baggage in order to reclaim breathing space for the original and undiluted power that courses through us continuously within our cosmic surrounds. The access to it can be granted at any time, by ourselves, if we are prepared to learn ourselves, the way we learn any other given thing, and learn ourselves with compassion. In reference to what Christinedream7 said... “Its difficult.” It is difficult until we learn how to let go – and that is one of the most difficult things for any of us to do. I wish I knew how to do it, at all times, without struggle. If something does not come to us easily, whether new ways of thinking or physically moving, how much are we willing to give ourselves over to repeated discipline (effective when combined with intention) like a mantra, in order to lay the foundations for something new to enter in. It’s a little like laying bird-seed and waiting, without the weight of concern, for a feathered friend to arrive.

It reminds me of something said by Nikola Tesla. Tesla was a scientist and free energy pioneer of our modern age, who is so often perceived as mystical in his demeanour. On page 54 of his autobiography he said:
“A new idea must not be judged by its immediate results.”
That often applies even when its our own idea. Tesla spoke of demystifying that which is regarded as unexplainable phenomena, with a critical mind. That is not the same as dismissing it, or lacking awe at life’s magnificence and its unpredictable ocean of inspiration. It is not the same as sidelining our wealth of untapped inner power. His was a mind that combined sharp scientific insight with an appreciation of how the spirit soars in artistic expression; hinting at the kind of alchemical union that results in wholistic thinking. On Pages 41-42 he wrote:
“I was enjoying a walk with my friend in the City Park and reciting poetry. At that age I knew entire books by heart, word for word...” He quotes a passage from Goethe’s Faust and goes on to say: “As I uttered these inspired words the idea came like a flash of lightening and in an instant the truth was revealed...” He then describes revelations of a new invention that he drew at that moment with a stick in the sand: “I cannot begin to describe my emotions. Pygmalion seeing his statue come to life could not have been more deeply moved. A thousand secrets of nature which I might have stumbled upon accidentally I would have given for that one...”
(My Inventions – The Autobiography of Nikola Tesla, Filiquarian Publishing. A lovely and little book.)


Post 64, Modwiz: “In the martial arts, it was standard practice, in the East, to have to earn ones way into a school. The concept of proper temperament and appreciation for a time honored practice was very important. There were all kinds of stories of how long and what people did to get accepted into a good school/dojo/dojang/kwoon.”

In this video of a Qigong Master, the narrator says gently “If you can believe that there is an energy called Qi flowing through the body, that it can be felt and manipulated, then perhaps you can see why some Chinese go one step further...” He says of the master teacher: “He tells his new students “Come here every morning at dawn, for three years, and then I’ll know you’re serious.” ”
http://youtu.be/nu99GRUUN6Y

Coming back to telekinesis with objects... How do we get to that place of ‘love’ and acceptance that allows such a benign, free-flowing, collaborative exchange with all things to come into existence? Love must surely be the word in our language most cherished, most beguiling, most abused and most resilient. Potentially most powerful or potentially most empty. But if we’ve been lucky enough to feel even just a moment of tenderness, and it really doesn’t matter if it was from the caress of a compassionate person, or when perceiving the gentleness and beauty of a single flower, then we do know the feeling of love that feels safe and not pressurised to give – free simply to accept and to appreciate. That is a seed in itself. To be in the space between opposites where nothing is needed, and everything is safe to perceive without a safeguard. Everything is conceivable without being a threat. To practice being in nature, around trees and breezes and living things that pulse with life and ask nothing in return – has a deeply practical purpose. To believe that there is a real and legitimate life to be lived outside the demands of the material world – a life where acknowledging a tree with your eyes and your thoughts in gratitude for its mere existence can truly have a purpose. Simply to acknowledge its beauty, its breathing, can be a dialogue that nourishes the spirit in ways we’ve all too often forgotten.

We’re cut off from these dialogues by being taught they do not matter – that they are flimsy and wistful and have no real power. And yet we wonder why we are so powerless in the face of a vile, sneaky and cumbersome world. To practice being in nature and enjoying it, subtly, so subtly that nature’s power reaches into us and mingles blissfully with the life of our imagination, to practice that may seem too light in its intent to be of use. But if we believe there are master manipulators in the world who choose to batter us with events of violence and fear, and smother us with a thick gloop of materialist thinking – it seems logical that where that distracts us and numbs us most effectively is by quashing the power of subtlety, and the power of perceiving the simplest beauty in ourselves. Because in realising beauty, feeling a part of it because we can perceive it, and enjoying it at the simplest level, we experience a power in the present moment that can reconnect us to our original and divine blueprint.

It reminds me, a little, of something an old friend told me their father taught them. That in order to be an artist (read as ‘creator’), in some ways, it may require the skin of a rhinoceros and the sensitivity of a butterfly.

All of these are just my own little right (rather than left) side of the brain musings. But I didn’t want to take up more space with an endless string of ‘perhapses’ as precursors :)

Perhaps there’s a little something in amidst that garden of word-seeds.

Thank you Modwiz, for conjuring the s p a c e , and thank you 9eagle9 for your Tarot and archetypes, Reaver for some juicy points, and Rahkyt, and everyone else for your contributions – lots of juicy links for me to get my mitts on.

[Beren]

Let us stay clear or steer this wheel better. It`s easy to be lost in the mists of human chaos-thought patterns.
Metaphysics-the term which tries to marry science and spirituality.

"any technology sufficiently high enough is indistinguishable from magic to a lower mind"

This sentence brought to humans en masse is explaining the very thing we`re talking about here- level of awareness.
Goal is to save the intent clear of growing in awareness of life and its beauty.

Everything is being actively polluted by negative polarity in fear that "this which is about to be polluted" is revealing the truth about someone or something.
Knowledge of:
1.energy
2.matter
3.movement
4.emotion
5.action and reaction

so on so forth...

Everything is actively being polluted. One starts straight talk about God or Source- lo and behold it`s already being polluted by religion. The other tries with science - lo and behold - it`s being polluted by religious approach and blind faith in it.
Third starts with spirit and its nature- lo and behold- it`s being polluted by negative aspect and instilling fear in folk vs understanding of spirit.
Etc.

By turning attention towards inner light or Godspark , one is switching off influences and agencies of negativity which are the polluters. Then for the first time a soul learns to hear itself, to feel loved utterly.
If any- I deem that value of this thread is to remind all to actively listen and actively walk without minding the voices of polluters-in any given field.

If it`s new age- the follow the fine thread of truth towards the goal-whatever that is.
If it`s anything else-the principle is the same.

Get into observer`s mode and raise your inner frequency so you can avoid completely the chaos that binds.
When you are raised, you will know what to do- unmistakeably.

After all I do a magic on purpose here:" The new age term is a term for itself engraved in possible beauty. It can be possible negative experience but I know that new age is coming where everything is actually new. New understanding of Love and application of the same, new need to rehash the mind and energy so that old will die off as unnecessary way of life. So real new age is dawning brave-where all are humans and no one is a slave, where fear doesn`t rule people`s life ,where joy is an essence, where knowledge is in all and in open. Where Love is in everyone and in everything -openly recognized. This is the New age."

[WhiteFeather]

Most metaphysical systems are invariably built upon, or serve to confirm, some sense of personal self, or individual doer-ship. However, upon investigation, it can be recognized that this sense of "self" derives from a misreading or misinterpretation of the causes and conditions of experience.

Afraid of death and the possibility of our personal nonexistence, we desperately impute and cling to permanence where there is none, imagining that something permanent underlies the flux of experiential conditions. Rather than recognize causes and conditions for what they are, we hypostatize their obvious effects, often deeming these hypostatized "entities" to be more real than what we encounter in actual experience.

Thus the notion of "self" is symptomatic of our deepest desires and fears. Transcending that view by recognizing that all that comes into existence does so dependent on perpetually changing causes and conditions is to see things as they actually are, beyond our conceptual constructs that over time have become rigidified into various human metaphysical systems.

Furthermore, most metaphysical systems tend to fall into fixed propositions of either "eternalism" or "annihilationalism," or to put in other terms, "continuity" or "discontinuity." However, things (e.g., the world, persons, etc.) are neither continuous nor discontinuous. Neither the world nor the things in it endure unchanging and endlessly; nor is the world a random, discontinuous, fragmented happenstance. Things are neither reducible entirely to their specific causative conditions, nor are they ever something other than their conditions. This is the so-called "middle way" between the extremes (or even between the right and left hemispheres of the brain – in fact, once recognized, the “grokking” of this reality will tend to unify them in view and conduct).

This “middle way” represents the elimination of all hypostatic theoretizations, i.e., abstractions which have been concretized to the point of seeming more real than the conditions from which they have been abstracted. However, the problem of hypostatization is not confined to the notion of self in its limited sense of an individual's self-essence, but is apparent everywhere, since all seemingly rational explanations of the way things are, are grounded in conceptual entities that are themselves ultimately unreal. All our fundamental notions, including time, actions (karma) and the agents of action, the characteristics with which things are defined and classified, relations, and so on, all are infiltrated by the notions of "identity" and "difference."

Identity is simply another name for self-essence: a continuous, invariant, self-identical essence. Difference presupposed the very notion of identity that it attempted to negate, since to claim X is different from Y presupposes that X and Y have determinate identities; and if taken seriously such that difference marks the complete absence of all identities, difference would entail such radical discontinuity, disjunction, and lack of intelligibility that even the most mundane things would become incoherent and inexplicable.

Consequently, everything, when seen properly, is devoid of self-essence, and thus "empty." “Emptiness” does not mean nonexistence, a substratum nihilum, or a denial of the world(s) of common experience. Nor does it signify a mystical via negativa. Rather it signifies the absence of something very precise – a concrete and enduring self-essence. It is the self-essence which is unreal, not the flux of conditions (though one must also be careful about hypostatizing "conditions").

Of course, none of this is nearly as significant as the latest round of Kardashian stories. As George Ure recently noted in his Urban Survival report, "we have as a country, managed the difficult transition from steely-eyed hard-working innovators to bleary-eyed corporate couch-potato infotainment-suckers."And so any metaphysical propositions whatsoever are likely to be submerged in the vast rising tide of a dumbed-down populace with attention spans that barely exceed those of goldfish. And even if it were otherwise, and even in the best of circumstances, the mind itself cannot be used to grasp the mind, so there's something to think about!

Regardless of all that, and in the final consideration, if one's philosophical musings have served in eliminating greed, envy, hatred, and arrogance, bolstering one's genuine humility and integrity, and rendering one more capable of giving and receiving love, then it is of value. Otherwise, it merely represents "a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, contortion of views, a writhing of views, a fetter of views. Bound by a fetter of views, the uninstructed ... is not freed, I tell you, from suffering and stress." (Buddha, Sabbasava Sutta)

Sheeesh....Im going to have to break out the ole dictionary to comprehend your post here Bob. Either that or im gonna need some college experience in which i so desperately need. Maybe a shot of Ormus just may suffice. Bob thanks for your response. And it is so good to see you posting again. I myself have missed your presence.

Getting back to thread...Several weeks ago i watched a youtube video with Graham Hancock and Joe Rogan. In one of the discussions Graham speaks of how Auyasca and Halucigens has capabalities of expansion of consciousness and makes us more aware of ones connection with nature. A great listen if you havent seen it before. My point being, the 60's flower children, hippies from out of space or whatever the label, used halucigens. Was this perhaps an evolution of consciousness for the good of ones spiritual journey. Or was it considered a trap. Im all ears to elaborate on this topic a bit further.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N28RyBDuS0

[Melinda]

Post 85: Whitefeather : “...My point being, the 60's flower children, hippies from out of space or whatever the label, used halucigens. Was this perhaps an evolution of consciousness for the good of ones spiritual journey. Or was it considered a trap. Im all ears to elaborate on this topic a bit further.”

Terrence McKenna and Ram Dass (formerly Richard Alpert) talk about aspects of that at various points in this video, as well as surrounding issues and wondering where we’re headed as a race...
9Ih4Fg6P730

Vivek raised a lovely point that reaches into how the geometry of space might influence the physical forms energy will grow itself into at the micro level.


“The radicular cause of matter may be related to how energy (at an indistinct, fine, basal level) interacts with the very geometry of space.”

We can see this at an easily-viewed macro level with the way buildings of innovative design, or ones based upon sacred geometry like the exquisite architectural designs of certain temples, can ‘shape’ or amplify our mood - as our subtle bodies resonate with the spacial ‘tones’ created by the language of the architecture. Then there are those other complex layers to be explored, examining whether there may be design information within the non-visible fields of our earth’s natural environment that influence the forms we take, which, if I’ve understood it correctly, relates to Rupert Sheldrake’s theory on morphic fields and so on.

I’ve included some pics below, from the internet, of Cathedrals. I don’t think you need to be religious in order to appreciate the effect of their interiors, or their aesthetic beauty. They are of Durham Cathedral, Hagia Sophia, and Chatres Cathedral. The Hagia Sophia was built as a Christian basilica, later became a mosque, and is now a museum to both. I visited it and found it awe-inspiring. there’s a lot that could be said about the ‘Master Masons’ of various churches around the world, and what they understood about environment and geometry affecting us.

Generally I find it best to leave the scientific input to others, but I’ll offer this up in case it’s of interest to anyone.
I first heard Richard Alan Miller some years ago on a little London radio station called Resonance that was broadcasting Rob Simone’s The Headroom. Off the back of that I found a different interview linked below. Miller flows more easily in it than in his recent Camelot interview and it may make interesting listening for others; make of him what you will. In it he talks about suppressed technology (not just the energy kind), herbs and agriculture, synthetic telepathy, and says what’s missing in physics is a mystery school. It does seem that we’re moving into an era where science and spirituality are being fused once again by inventive scientists and creators.
Part 1: http://www.nightwatchmanchronicles.com/MP3/Allen.mp3
Part 2: http://www.nightwatchmanchronicles.com/MP3/Allen2.mp3


http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj550/DoodlemakerUK/DurhamCathedralInteriorCeiling.jpg

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj550/DoodlemakerUK/HagiaSophiainIstanbul.jpg

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj550/DoodlemakerUK/ARoundRoseWindowatChatresCathedral.jpg

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj550/DoodlemakerUK/FlowerofLife.jpg

[skippy]

Metaphysics, Meta Physics, Beyond Physics. At this moment my daughter of 5 is in the hospital, and it's a very difficult situation. Both Science and Spiritualty are needed to get her back on her feed again and to restore some balance. How to deal with a fully unacceptable situation? Once back to normal, I'll post a thread to share my experiences and to express my gratitude for your help and support.

[Melinda]

Metaphysics, Meta Physics, Beyond Physics. At this moment my daughter of 5 is in the hospital, and it's a very difficult situation. Both Science and Spiritualty are needed to get her back on her feed again and to restore some balance. How to deal with a fully unacceptable situation? Once back to normal, I'll post a thread to share my experiences and to express my gratitude for your help and support.

Blessings for your daughter. May peace and healing be with you and your family.

[WhiteFeather]

Metaphysics, Meta Physics, Beyond Physics. At this moment my daughter of 5 is in the hospital, and it's a very difficult situation. Both Science and Spiritualty are needed to get her back on her feed again and to restore some balance. How to deal with a fully unacceptable situation? Once back to normal, I'll post a thread to share my experiences and to express my gratitude for your help and support.

All our Love to you and your family Skip. Im envisioning your daughter Marie , to be restored back to excellent health forthwith.

XXXOOO

[modwiz]

Getting back to thread...Several weeks ago i watched a youtube video with Graham Hancock and Joe Rogan. In one of the discussions Graham speaks of how Auyasca and Halucigens has capabalities of expansion of consciousness and makes us more aware of ones connection with nature. A great listen if you havent seen it before. My point being, the 60's flower children, hippies from out of space or whatever the label, used halucigens. Was this perhaps an evolution of consciousness for the good of ones spiritual journey. Or was it considered a trap. Im all ears to elaborate on this topic a bit further.



IMO, the plant medicines, like the hallucinogens, are powerful tools. Like chains saws. Make sure that chain is tight. LOL
They give us glimpses of the reality we source from. This is useful knowledge if applied........correctly. We made a decision to incarnate, with the parents we have in the place of our birth. There are many permutations as to why that need not be discussed here. With that said, our focus is in the world that we smushed our skull through a narrow passage to be in. Using plant medicines to remember where we come from and the energies that exist all around us can be very empowering and useful. Living there part time leads to disorientation. With some plant medicines like cannabis some spend half or more of their waking time in that world. I do not believe that produces good life results. It may calm the nervous system and mask emotional pain effectively. Emotional pain is work not done, wounds not closed. Imagine cutting your self and your skin not closing. Fortunately our body has an intelligence of its own operating under that of the personality.

[Jeffrey]

Michael Harner: The Way of the Shaman

9N2z3-6vE0I

[Jeffrey]

Stephen Pinker: Language and Consciousness

K5ljEBkCeMQ

[D-Day]

While we're on the topic of drugs and the effects they have on us.... what about alcohol?

I have often wondered why people tend to project a more genuine/honest/authentic version of themselves whilst under the influence of alcohol.

... as opposed to when they are sober and their personalitie (in most cases) tends to be somewhat more subdued, tempered, inhibited and/or consciously "restricted".

Why is it that when a person is under the influence of alcohol they tend to be less affected by things like anxiety issues, self esteem issues, body image issues etc, that would normally (when sober) limit their capacity to interact confidently or "authentically" in social settngs?

It seems to me that when a person is drinking they often tend to be more open, honest, and better able (or at least more willing) to express their thoughts/emotions in an authentic way.

Is this due to a "false" sense of confidence brought about purely through physical/chemical/hormonal intereactions going on in the persons brain?

Or, is there something else going on at deeper levels like the emotional/mental body levels, that somehow enables those aspects of the person to open up and interact in a more balanced/cohesive way?

I honestly don't know, which I guess is why I'm putting these questions to you guys who are far more knowledgable about such things than I currently am.

Anyhow, I'm really just thinking out loud here... this is something I have often pondered/contemplated.

Perhaps one or more of you might be able to shed a little light on this for me...?

Thanks in advance...

[Hervé]

Michael Harner: The Way of the Shaman



"... claim they run the world."

"Yeah, they always say that..."

Now I know which book I read that in, way back when I had time to read books :) .

It now amazes me the number of books I've read... like the vibrational healing ones, vol I & II, they are somewhere stashed in a box shelved somewhere after one of my many moves...

[modwiz]

While we're on the topic of drugs and the effects they have on us.... what about alcohol?

I have often wondered why people tend to project a more genuine/honest/authentic version of themselves whilst under the influence of alcohol.

... as opposed to when they are sober and their personalitie (in most cases) tends to be somewhat more subdued, tempered, inhibited and/or consciously "restricted".

Why is it that when a person is under the influence of alcohol they tend to be less affected by things like anxiety issues, self esteem issues, body image issues etc, that would normally (when sober) limit their capacity to interact confidently or "authentically" in social settngs?

It seems to me that when a person is drinking they often tend to be more open, honest, and better able (or at least more willing) to express their thoughts/emotions in an authentic way.

Is this due to a "false" sense of confidence brought about purely through physical/chemical/hormonal intereactions going on in the persons brain?

Or, is there something else going on at deeper levels like the emotional/mental body levels, that somehow enables those aspects of the person to open up and interact in a more balanced/cohesive way?

I honestly don't know, which I guess is why I'm putting these questions to you guys who are far more knowledgable about such things than I currently am.

Anyhow, I'm really just thinking out loud here... this is something I have often pondered/contemplated.

Perhaps one or more of you might be able to shed a little light on this for me...?

Thanks in advance...

Alcohol is a natural drug and a plant medicine. It lowers inhibitions and allows ones guard to come down. Suppressed issues come up for clearing. Once again it is a tool. It is also a very quick and effective remedy for acute anxiety. Except for alcoholics. Chronic anxiety needs to be treated by addressing the cause. Using any drug for a chronic condition ends up turning into chronic drug usage/abuse. :doh:

[9eagle9]

Good question and yes there is a connection between alcohol and lifting dead emotions. That's why I quoted that song and modwiz quoted the song I quoted..lol.

"Stir the waters till their depths give up the dead. "

Water is the element of the emotions. The avatar of the emotional body. When you stir water in a certain way, a bunch of **** will come up to the surface the way you see deep draft ships with a ton of crap in the wake they've stirred from the bottom of any body of water.

Alcohol stirs because it has 'spiritual' properties.

Alcohol is typically distilled plant spirits . Thus the name 'spirits'.

If not used in an abusive fashion alcohol could be used as a part of an emotional clearing process, the druids used it as such, which is how I know it. Which is why half of Ireland self medicates with alcohol. And why native americans self medicated with alcohol deep rooted anger and grief for the same reason. Having the cultural and spiritual compasses, their essential selves torn from them has left a gaping psychic wound. And that psychic wound is shared on the collective.

This is why clearing our personal portion of the the woundedness in the collective on a individual level helps humanity more than spewing fake love at them.

From the time of Egypt sacred beers were brewed usually with the addition of a spiritually healing herbs and botanical.

Plant spirit helpers. Not the classy 'hollywood' variety the shamans of south america use, plant spirits of 'spirits' have functions entirely different but they are plant spirit helpers nonetheless.

A certain amount of discipline would be needed to do a clearing process using alcohol. Typically by the time you feel the effect and one is separated from the rooted emotions for a period of time, one doesn't feel like going through the process. When people feel 'okay' is the time they least likely will process.

For the hard cases that are happy for three drinks in and then begin weeping, or raging after the fourth, no process has occurred, so now the rooted emotions are not inhibited so just run free.

Then its just self medication. Alcoholism is a symptom of an emotional disease not the disease itself.

But yeah if you were to begin an emotional clearing process, on a mental level, mentally appraising one's emotional state. The mental state will begin to give up memories that are related to emotional abuse, and one can start tracking down where they rooted in at.

That is a metaphysical practice that is frowned on these days, but it is still metaphysical in nature to use plant helpers to process emotions, but you have to use the mental body.

It's not NECESSARY mind you but the use of alcohol is a really fast way to to raise stuck emotions.

Alcohol/Spirits breakdown the density of the emotional body of the kidney and liver areas that correspond to the emotional body. Buried grief and anger are related to this area of the emotional and subtle bodies and the physical correspondents are liver and kidneys. Besides the brain these are the portions of the whole body that alcohol most effects.

Rage, grief, anger-- that is why people who drink often cry, or fly into rages when they normally would not. That tells me that something deep rooted needs to be processed. If you release something and don't do something with it, it will just re-entrench itself again.

People who force happiness, love and light in their sober states. You get a much different picture of what is going on with them when they are consuming alcohol. Because those are not 'force' emotions. You shouldn't have to fake them, or even be aware that you are expressing them. People who really exhibit light, love, balance typically are not reminding people of this 24/7.

One is then able to clearly separate themselves from that portion of the emotional body that is traumatized and get some momentary relief from the way whatever is stuck in there inhibits the person. You are then freed from that effect of the emotional body for a time to be able to know it objectively. You could actually look at it from the mental body perspective.

Most people don't and the veil falls again.

Distilled plant essences or essential oils will do the same thing over a longer period of time.

Drunk people are really interesting when they are momentarily separated from their imprisoning emo state. You see some of them in states of inspired (inspirited) thought, where suddenly they are some great sage with profound insights. It is no accident that people who are drinking together have these profound discussions they normally wouldn't. Some portion of their higher intelligence isn't getting stomped down by the emotional body.

You are a little bit closer to your essential nature in this way. If the ego isn't throwing up veils the way a wounded emotional body does. The ego holds the emo body hostage and then it holds you hostage.

The mental body doesn't veil spiritual intelligence it craves it because it is stimulated by it. The mental body isn't in opposition with spirit. The emotional body can and will be. It will block any sort of information that one's intuitive self brings if the emotional body gets triggered by it. Most intuitive readers are basically processing their own **** when they read for you ...lol.

If one's emotional body were clearer it could would in harmony with the mental body. Intellect, intelligence, and logic are not the enemy of the emotional body, they are to work in balance and in conjunction with each other.

Unfortunately a lot of people think their emotional body should be trusted emphatically, that it is their psychic center even, and that everything should be dealt with on an emotional level. We also notice conversely when you have a broken tv that flying into a rage and or loving the tv doesn't fix it.

On a very base physical level, I am able to fix quite a lot more material things or at least figure them out, because I'm not intimidated by them, scared of them, or given them more power over me. I can actually do things on a physical level I couldn't before because my emo body isn't in the way with a bizarre array of emotions that would prevent me from challenging my mental body to come up with a solution.

People don't so much crave alcohol but crave being a bit closer to their natural state of existence. For the most part most alcohol tastes like ****, and the way it is de-natured it is screamingly toxic to the body over long term use. Naturally distilled or brewed alcohol isn't.

[markpierre]

To watch them try to FEEL with their mental bodies is even worse.

.

I blew coffee out of my nose.

[markpierre]

If one's emotional body were clearer it could would in harmony with the mental body. Intellect, intelligence, and logic are not the enemy of the emotional body, they are to work in balance and in conjunction with each other.



The emotional body is in a psychological war with memory. It does everything it can to dramatize what didn't happen. I like what you said about trusting it.

And the last line is so true. We drank to get normal. Funny, that 'normal' isn't accessible to most people. Some melatonin thing maybe. I think that may be
what motivates everyone to do what they do. Is everyone a junkie?

Alcoholics are people who generally speaking, are less able to tolerate bull$hit.

[9eagle9]

Everyone is an addict yes, until they learn not to be , or try not to be, or get into the processes of not being addicted. WHY they are addicted are legion, Vivek's thread has some brow raising ponderings on it, which goes beyond addiction. Those are the ones who can eventually be 'cured' for lack of a better word. Those are ones who can't because parasitital is their true nature.

Addiction becomes a very minor thing when you see that addictive behaviors in another-sub group of people are actually feeding. A self internalized alchohol addict who is self medicating against their inner wound becomes a saintly sort of person when one delves deeper and sees some addicts are not addicted at all. It's feeding. A natural function for them.

I gave up drugs, alchohol, and food and I'm a holy roller of love and light and I'm going to created drama now to feed on since I gave up the other things that kept my parasite content.


People get addicted to their own dramas, I think their called drama queens. Literally addicted to their own emotions.

One notices if you don't feed drama the drama queens really resent those who don't. Drama replaces the ability to generate true excitement. Replaces the ability to generate anything real. Drama queens can't suck up what is 'real'.

I guess that's why we have new normals all the time. No one can remember the old normal.

[markpierre]

Like the power addicts. Or the spiritual addicts. Or the work addicts or TV addicts or good parenting addicts or status quot addicts or stupidity addicts. I think we called them humaholics.
Guys addicted to thinking this is a reasonable place to be. The fix is 'what's familiar'.
So there was an old 'normal'? Good. I was remembering something. normal is free. The new ones make me want to drink.

But I can't any more, so I have to either make up questions to answer for myself or sit and look at the birds. (which is ok)

I think the left side of my brain will be my contribution to the next BYO barbie.

[Mozart]

Wow, Modwiz and everyone -- what a thread this looks like!


I'll read it when I have time (too busy bartering shiat-loads of stuff to barter!).

[Carmody]

I guess that's why we have new normals all the time. No one can remember the old normal.

As above, so below.

the eye only sees differential.

the ear is much the same.

Long story to explain both. but the point remains that this is an aspect of the function of the given integrated system of information recognition. Part of the cognition of the reflection of life.

That there is good reason to say as above, so below, and to say that such things are also adjacent or beside on another. That a parallel of sorts can be drawn.

Also, that differential is required for intelligence to 'be', in the most mundane sense of energies. Difference is a basic requirement for organized differential and thus intelligence to occur. static function is to normalization is to stability is to sameness is to 'ending of differential'. or static. A flatline.... in differential, it is.

Thus, to be, to know existence 'is', tends to require differential. If one settles into no change, no difference, no differential- then nothing happens. Always moving to a difference. Anything else is sameness and stagnation. Sameness becomes the death of intelligence or 'being'. this is a natural function of energetics. Intelligence requires change, or differential - - in order to be.

Or, the corollary, is that sameness must be broken, as a literal nothing, will not just emerge from it but that is what it will become or is. If required, it will be shattered.

This leads to the understanding that on all levels, even the most basic,and to the most towering in complexity..that intelligence is inherently a messy affair. That is the core of it's very nature.

That from the most explicit and complex mess possible, great intelligence or reach, can be created, or is found. But only to a given shearing limit, then it can fall into disorganized chaos.

But then this leads to the obvious conclusion, that intelligence and growth of intelligence can only be found at it's most potent in the most extreme edges of controllable or controlled chaos.

The harder you can stand being broken, the greater the being you will eventually be.

[modwiz]

An interesting dynamic has occurred behind the scenes with this thread that needs to be addressed because it is affecting the flow of things, for me, in a small way. I think it is fairly common knowledge that a small Avalon ground crew is currently happening in Michigan. 9eagle was gracious enough to provide me with housing for 6 months. This has been a great kindness to me. So much for the mean and vicious 9eagle myth.

We are two autonomous, sovereign beings who happen to be in close proximity and have some form of dialogue every day. It sometimes quite brief and my sleeping patterns make the "ships passing in the night" saying almost literal here.

So, it has come to my attention that some forum members, whose identities have not been divulged to me, are skyping or PMing 9eagle with questions about me, what I write, how I write, who I thank and how my writing style is so cryptic. This kind of behavior is not only annoying is "triangulation". Triangulation is a common behavioral DYSFUNCTION!

In case triangulation is a new term for some let me uncryptically explain it as when a third person is introduced to a situation or dialogue that is meant to occur between two people. Any questions about me, need to be addressed to me. My skype addy is under my avatar. PM's are self explanatory. I am the only one who can answer questions about me, my thread, or why I do what I do. Furthermore, why I do what I do (although I might share) is none of anyone's business. Their business is to understand why they so what they do. Like engaging in triangulation, for starters.

To reiterate: I am the one to question about my behavior. Bothering 9eagle about me is dysfunctional behavior. Discussion of my posts is reasonable. Discussion of my person and/or motives is not.

I look forward to correspondence.

:focus:

[Ernie Nemeth]

Had no idea about any of that Modwiz.

With that break, I'd like to ask a basic question.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what the emotional body is, in this context. My confusion comes from the use of feelings and emotions interchangably. In my understanding, feelings come unbidden and are a form of information; emotions are the rationalized interpretation of feelings. Something like that. (Feelings in this context not to be confused with the sense of touch). So the emotional body would be the over-all reaction and consequent mind-set induced by feelings.

So, I guess my question is, "Is there a difference between feelings and emotions?"

[AwakeInADream]

What do you guy's make of Rudolf Steiner?

He's always struck me as being very rational and scientific about metaphysics,
I rather prefer him to the Blavatsky and Bailey bunch.

You can read almost everything he's ever written here:http://www.rsarchive.org/Books/

Modwiz, I 'd be interested to learn more about how you work with Chakra's if it's within the scope of this thread.
What you said earlier about the Sacral Chakra makes sense to me as I can never place mine so I think it may move about which causes me confusion(I think currently it's just under my belly button).
I've also noticed at times my 3rd eye rises to the top of my hairline. Do they all move?
P.S I've never noticed anything cryptic in the way you write, maybe us musicians are in tune.;)

[9eagle9]

It should be up to you if you want to feel an emotion.

Feelings are wrought in part from emotions, HURT feelings and PLEASANT feelings.

There are physical feelings and their are emotional feelings. Senses. If the emo pain is great enough it will be felt in the physical body. Feelings are rather transcendent they can go both ways. You have a physical feeling that can stir the emotional body. Feelings are a conductor of sorts not the emotion itself.


When the emotional body is wounded, it gets pain. Usually from the ego, that prods the emotional body and says " That hurts, you have a wound there, prod prod, now go react because someone accidentally brought up something that made you feel that wound, prod prod. then when no one will speak to you anymore go off someplace and feel lonely and hated, prod prod.

Is it trustworthy information though?

A feel can be a source of information (my hand is hot, I think it's on fire) but information and thoughts and intelligence are not the same thing. People also confuse their 'feeling's for their psychic fields. Bad idea if the emotional body is running the show.



Had no idea about any of that Modwiz.

With that break, I'd like to ask a basic question.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what the emotional body is, in this context. My confusion comes from the use of feelings and emotions interchangably. In my understanding, feelings come unbidden and are a form of information; emotions are the rationalized interpretation of feelings. Something like that. (Feelings in this context not to be confused with the sense of touch). So the emotional body would be the over-all reaction and consequent mind-set induced by feelings.

So, I guess my question is, "Is there a difference between feelings and emotions?"

[modwiz]

Had no idea about any of that Modwiz.

With that break, I'd like to ask a basic question.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what the emotional body is, in this context. My confusion comes from the use of feelings and emotions interchangably. In my understanding, feelings come unbidden and are a form of information; emotions are the rationalized interpretation of feelings. Something like that. (Feelings in this context not to be confused with the sense of touch). So the emotional body would be the over-all reaction and consequent mind-set induced by feelings.

So, I guess my question is, "Is there a difference between feelings and emotions?"

To answer you last question before going into words, Yes.

The emotional body is an energetic quasi-physical body. I say quasi-physical because, although it is not in the 3rd dimension it leans up against it and ripples into it. This ability to physically feel especially due to hormonal releases and cascades, give the emotional body a physical representation.

Anyway. The emotional body like your physical body can "feel" the movements and pokes (disharmonics) of the E=energy-motions. E-motions. We "feel" this motion. These movements are our feelings that we perceive with our emotional body. I like it when I follow 9eagle or vice versa because we use language differently, even when saying essentially the same thing. This kind of redundancy I feel is helpful. Any good system has multiple redundancies built into them to ensure reasonable performance even if part of the system goes down.

[AwakeInADream]

It should be up to you if you want to feel an emotion.

I find it very easy to control my emotions. All you have to do to feel happy for instance is remember a time when you were happy. Job done!
That's how you begin to realize that you have control, and pretty soon you can learn to create with your imagination emotions that didn't even exist before, like 'exitedly relaxed'.
This can lead you on to discover that emotions are an illusion to some degree(maybe).

Of course it's a lot harder to stop unwanted emotions from hindering you, but they can be controlled.
I'm no expert on the matter though, just a playful experimenter. You can learn a lot about yourself that way.

[Ultima Thule]

Just the other day when treating a patient, I saw with my inner vision a gaping old wound in her liver. I managed to close it. For me it makes sense that every now and then, when I encounter these kinds of things they may be symbolical of emotions felt recently or they might be "leftovers" from past incarnations. Also birthmarks - in my experience - many times indicate possible ailment appearing at some point in life and I´ve figured that for example if you die violently, the experience needs to be somehow transmitted to your next incarnated body to be managed, birthmark and later trouble being a part of the means to do it(at least sometimes).

Now my question is: do these kind of things - let´s say that wound I mentioned - travel in a singular energetic body or a combination of them?

UT

[modwiz]

What do you guy's make of Rudolf Steiner?

He's always struck me as being very rational and scientific about metaphysics,
I rather prefer him to the Blavatsky and Bailey bunch.

You can read almost everything he's ever written here:http://www.rsarchive.org/Books/

Modwiz, I 'd be interested to learn more about how you work with Chakra's if it's within the scope of this thread.
What you said earlier about the Sacral Chakra makes sense to me as I can never place mine so I think it may move about which causes me confusion(I think currently it's just under my belly button).
I've also noticed at times my 3rd eye rises to the top of my hairline. Do they all move?
P.S I've never noticed anything cryptic in the way you write, maybe us musicians are in tune.;)

It is great to bring up Rudolph Steiner. He is one of the spiritual lights of the 20 century. There is an interesting concept of triune (3 person) anchoring of energy templates to help the Earths' people move forward in consciousness. Where there is a focus of particular enegies in 3 different people to make for an integrated whole. Steiner would represent the Intellectual pole, or positive terminal (electric and dry in nature). There would then be a negative or magnetic terminal and finally a grounding/synthesis. I do know that J Krishnamurti was another of this three, I think it was the magnetic pole. The third personage escapes me at this time.

Within this concept, IIRC, (now that you know what it means:P) the foundation of the USA was B. Franklin, T.Jefferson and G.Washington. In this scenario, IIRC, Washington was the synthesis grounding person. Jefferson was the intellect and Franklin the magnetic pole. Like the above example, Franklin had an astute and sharp mind, as did Krishnamurti. They both possessed a very human nature to them. Jefferson and Steiner were more rarefied in their carriage. Washington was not a great intellect, but a good person to hold and ground the synthesis of Jefferson and Franklin.

Blavatsky was a great collator of information, although she did bring her own considerable intelligence and understanding into the mix. Bailey tended to take the information of Blavatsky and organize it with other very capable people.

Steiner started with them but broke out of Theosophy to begin Anthroposophy. He was a fountain of information. He was no collator but an original source. The Theosophists had every intention of making J Krishnamuti the "World Teacher". Like Steiner he fled this bureaucratic burgeoning movement that has no small association with the NA "movement".

Much has been made about the Lucis trust of Annie Besant and her Theosophical movement originally being the Lucifer trust. The Theosophical movement is Luciferian. So was Seth. The Lucifer energy has many gifts to offer and they are given freely. You see, the cosmic "bet" is that we will misuse them and use them to gain power over others rather than cooperating and building a high civilization out of them. A New World Order. A true NWO and not the Old World Order with plastic surgery. I have mentioned before, there is a World Order that is highly benevolent and functional. I am sure highly advanced civilizations throughout the galaxy operate from such organization. The Star Trek world is just one example. It is important for people to realize that this planet needs organization on a macro level. Of course, it must be administered by balanced, competent and benevolent persons. We will be ready when the jingoistic name calling crap that comes out of politicians is booed and jeered as it comes out of their mouths, instead of being met with applause and nods of agreement.

[AwakeInADream]

Great response! Cheers Modwiz!:)


The Lucifer energy has many gifts to offer and they are given freely. You see, the cosmic "bet" is that we will misuse them and use them to gain power over others rather than cooperating and building a high civilization out of them.

Lucifer's the 'bad guy' isn't he? Or is this just my ignorance/superstition/programming?

Could you clear up this whole Lucifer thing for me?

I remember reading somewhere that Lucifer had now or will soon be redeemed and hence change sides.
(according to the secret societies)

I'm getting a little paranoid lately about calling God by any name, just in case I'm dialing up the wrong guy(if you know what I mean).
I have to pray to long winded titles now like 'The creator of everything that is,was and shall be in all dimensions known and unknown (and then some)':amen:
(due to speculation about certain names in the Bible representing lesser Gods/Demons)

[modwiz]

Great response! Cheers Modwiz!:)


The Lucifer energy has many gifts to offer and they are given freely. You see, the cosmic "bet" is that we will misuse them and use them to gain power over others rather than cooperating and building a high civilization out of them.

Lucifer's the 'bad guy' isn't he? Or is this just my ignorance/superstition/programming?

Could you clear up this whole Lucifer thing for me?

I remember reading somewhere that Lucifer had now or will soon be redeemed and hence change sides.
(according to the secret societies)

I'm getting a little paranoid lately about calling God by any name, just in case I'm dialing up the wrong guy(if you know what I mean).
I have to pray to long winded titles now like 'The creator of everything that is,was and shall be in all dimensions known and unknown (and then some)':amen:

IMO, Lucifer is playing Its role. It is really difficult and probably unnecessary to know what is mytho-legend and what is fact and is there really a difference. I say this from a bigger view of what reality is, where it sources from and what role the observer has in what is reality. Vivek's thread(s) are very good places for this and Carmody's Lithium thread.

Let us play with a bigger, more mature mythos of Lucifer. One of his own kind had a hand in our creation, took over the "rights to us or what ever. The Enlil/Enki tales are great back story for this where Enlil is Yahweh, and probably was/is and Enki is Lucifer/snake. Now there is a problem marrying these two myths at a crucial point. In Eden where we are living blissfully ignorant lives,( or were we?) and told to stay away from "a fruit" that would give us greater knowledge, (of good and evil) or die. There are so many rich places to go here, but that is not this conversation.
The snake/serpent Enki/Lucifer comes and informs us we have been misinformed, we all know the rest. In another, extra-biblical tale we have the story of Yahweh saying, "Behold, my creation, humankind, You will all bow down and serve them". Lucifer said, in effect, "No deal. Your creation is shoddy and imperfect and will mess up at every turn. I will prove it to you". Yahweh says, in effect, "Get out of my house and you have a bet."
SOmething like this shows up in the Book of Job. Instead here, Satan (the tester) is walking through heaven during a council meeting and Yahweh says something like, "Hey Satan where ya been?" (The family spat apparently over) and Satan relies, "I've been here and there and looking at things." Yahweh says something like, "Did you check out my boy Job. He is the goods?" Satan says' (Yawn) Only because I leave him alone. Give me some time with him and he will curse your name." Yahweh basically takes the dare and sets a few limitations to the "game". Sound like sociopaths to anyone? Actually it is like the two rich guys in the movie "Trading Places" making the bet for a dollar.

Back to Lucifer and gifts. In this cosmic game scenario, our being cosmic fuQ ups is where the action is. We are given gifts that can enhance our lives and allow us to enter the galactic family. Instead we get global crime families and global population of enablers and emulators. Go to Wade Fraziers thread and read the enlightened comments. Free Energy, should be a no brainer. I can understand the elite and their sickness around control but we have plebes who express concern. Why, because even the plebes accept they are losers. The very important word her is accept. That implies a choice. Lucifer is all about choice. The word Satan means adversary but also tester. The adversary part only comes form the tester asking hard questions. Are they really hard or are we really confused?

Jesus and Satan in the NT. The assumption by most is this was no contest. Jesus is all holy, the son of god, and this is a chump challenge. Really?
If that were so, how would what Satan offered be temptations? If I offer you something you don't want, am I tempting you? Anyway, the temptations allow us to consider what it was the Jesus was contemplating for himself. Anyway, Jesus chose to be a Jedi Knight and Satan, job done and test over, went about his business. Looking for losers. LOL

SO there is the conundrum, riddle, paradox of Lucifer. Offering us gifts, that we either should shun altogether or, more refining, ones that it takes a certain maturity to handle. Cutting a rope and knife is tool, plunging into somebody's chest is a stupid human trick.

Lucifer always tests. Lucifer has much to offer. If we actually mature enough where the double edged sword of these gifts cuts no one we will have moved to another level. The victim, the unempowered person, will blame a person who gave them something they had a bad experience with. An empowered person will either use gifts wisely or find that the blame was with themselves or their fellow human.

In the myth, Lucifer was asked to bow down to us. He refused because he insisted he was greater. He had a point. It is up to us to make our point. I see it as a situation where he says" I'd like to be wrong about this.......but."

It is up to us. The big message that is emerging in every direction we turn to. We are the problem, the answer and the solution.

[AwakeInADream]

So in a way Steiner refused Lucifer's gifts and went away and made his own?
Krishnamuti too, refusing to be the new Messiah, very admirable quality.:)

[modwiz]

Just the other day when treating a patient, I saw with my inner vision a gaping old wound in her liver. I managed to close it. For me it makes sense that every now and then, when I encounter these kinds of things they may be symbolical of emotions felt recently or they might be "leftovers" from past incarnations. Also birthmarks - in my experience - many times indicate possible ailment appearing at some point in life and I´ve figured that for example if you die violently, the experience needs to be somehow transmitted to your next incarnated body to be managed, birthmark and later trouble being a part of the means to do it(at least sometimes).

Now my question is: do these kind of things - let´s say that wound I mentioned - travel in a singular energetic body or a combination of them?

UT

Good job closing the wound. Keep on checking it until you are sure the energy has shifted for the long term. In TCM the liver is associated with anger, one of the "deadly sins".* Of course this is chronic anger. Acute anger is like a thunderstorm and is often cleansing. It also sometimes knocks things down. Oops!

Past lives are a time space contrivance and have only a relative reality. Like the rules of a game, these things matter and have importance in the construct of the game, but the greater reality is the contrivance and boundaries that provide the challenge of the game.

Past live "carry though" to present ones because they are still very alive. There are DNA memories as well. The mental body will simple store these as data and lessons, the emotional body can get stuck on them.

I still have more to offer about the interplay of emotional and mental body to come. I will end by saying the emotional body is only looking problematic because of imbalances. The alchemical aspect od emotion is water. We are over 75% water and will die faster without it than food. Water and emotion are very good things.

Then we have floods...............

*http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53761-Potential-you-are-that-which-you-are-realization&p=608110&viewfull=1#post608110
This is an excellent look at the deadly sins from a useful perspective. Keeping the wisdom linked here is important, IMO. 2013 is a 6 year. All even numbers imply partnering at some level.

[modwiz]

So in a way Steiner refused Lucifer's gifts and went away and made his own?
Krishnamuti too, refusing to be the new Messiah, very admirable quality.:)

Lucifer's gifts are only as bad as the recipients use. One problem is the collective us. A quick for instance of how things can twist and turn in the ways we often do not see.

Lucifer offers you a closet full of gold. No strings. "Would you like it?" One figures, there are no strings. Up front there are no strings. Lucifer wants nothing in return in the way we think of things. Proving his point we are fuQ ups does not enter our mind however. It is foremost on his. He has a bet. So, in our manner of thinking, when he says no strings, he is not lying. Lucifer is the patron saint of the admiralty legal system. If you know the language you are free, unless one of us plebes dishonors even this sleight of language trick and doesn't play by the rules. Lucifer counts on us screwing up there too. See how this works? Back to the closet full of gold.

So, we have a closet full of gold. What good is gold unless you can use/spend it? Can't eat it. One could spend/live basically within their means so as not to attract attention. Not of the IRS, but someone who would like some of what one has. Is he plot beginning to reveal itself?

Do you tell anyone? Can you trust anyone? Feeling any stress yet? Are you now paranoid of being relieved of your gold. Do you buy an alarm, a guard dog. How about a gun?

These are all possible paths coming out of the "no strings attached" closet full of gold and I have barely begun to unravel the permutations and probable/possible combinations that could come from this scenario.

Lucifer a bad guy? Not in my view. He offers candy to diabetics. Do they say no? It's a game. A game of tests. As a collective each failure is one we all are affected by. There are a few threads here on Avalon currently that seek to help the collective. Individual enlightenment is how it happens, but it is the collective that must come together. A healthy whole is made of healthy parts.

Steiner has excellent lectures on Satan and Ahriman and their differences. Ahriman is closer to the Lucifer concept. What is referred to as Satanism is really more demon worship. Like making your local wise-guy "made man" your diety and thinking you have the Godfather. There is nothing to test with these sorts. They have chosen the dark side. Salvation/conversion is for other energetic entities.

Another bump for RomanWKT's thread. Especially the OP.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53761-Potential-you-are-that-which-you-are-realization&p=608110&viewfull=1#post608110

[sineck]

Life is is the element of disoriented illusions, a character of self being , with a mind of self awareness, Grievance combined with happiness, in a fortitude of harmony, and socio communicative disagreements of pro-offered existence.

[markpierre]

It's interesting. 'Lucifer' is mentioned once in Isaiah, meaning Venus, but referencing something with no explanation. and inferring various fallen kings and calling them idolaters.
Sounds like any government. And that whole myth is derived from that?

Or maybe me. Arriving with some relative wisdom and understanding and degenerating into a preoccupation with girls and gold and fashion and being cool.
I picked the fruit from the wrong tree, and fed the left side of my brain while the living side withered.

War in heaven? As if Heaven were a place. It's not. It's a state of mind. If it means other planets, well that's different.
Who was there that can tell me about that from experience?

Satan, the devil, the serpent, the dragon, all interpreted as the same persona. I'm presuming they meant the lower mind. What is it that rules this world?
Invisible things? Demons, aliens, 'principalities'? While the obvious studies them all and never quite figures them out. That's a good way to deny responsibility.
What is it that buys in and accepts nonsense as reasonable? And allows idiots to run amok?
'The tester', 'the destroyer', 'the opposer/opposition', 'the tempter', c'mon.

If Armageddon is nothing more than an ultimate and final confrontation with my own egoic mind, I'm quite happy with that. Whatever it looks like.
No one to blame but myself.

[D-Day]

Life is is the element of disoriented illusions, a character of self being , with a mind of self awareness, Grievance combined with happiness, in a fortitude of harmony, and socio communicative disagreements of pro-offered existence.

So sorry, but I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what you're trying to say here.

[modwiz]

It's interesting. 'Lucifer' is mentioned once in Isaiah, meaning Venus, but referencing something with no explanation. and inferring various fallen kings and calling them idolaters.

If Armageddon is nothing more than an ultimate and final confrontation with my own egoic mind, I'm quite happy with that. Whatever it looks like.
No one to blame but myself.

In symbolic language,especially of the elite, Venus and Lucifer are one and the same. The last two shootings, Aurora and Sandy Hook happened on Friday. Venus' day. That group is very tied into ritual and cosmology. It's part of the Old Ways left or right hand path.

I like your last thought there.

UPDATE:

The asteroid fly by on Feb. is on the 15th, a Friday. Now, that could actually be a coincidence. Whatever they are. :p

[markpierre]

It's interesting. 'Lucifer' is mentioned once in Isaiah, meaning Venus, but referencing something with no explanation. and inferring various fallen kings and calling them idolaters.

If Armageddon is nothing more than an ultimate and final confrontation with my own egoic mind, I'm quite happy with that. Whatever it looks like.
No one to blame but myself.

In symbolic language,especially of the elite, Venus and Lucifer are one and the same. The last two shootings, Aurora and Sandy Hook happened on Friday. Venus' day. That group is very tied into ritual and cosmology. It's part of the Old Ways left or right hand path.

I like your last thought there.

So do these guys really believe this stuff, or is all just a wank? Like a big arcade game. Or is that as interesting as it gets without the benefit of waking up.

[modwiz]

It's interesting. 'Lucifer' is mentioned once in Isaiah, meaning Venus, but referencing something with no explanation. and inferring various fallen kings and calling them idolaters.

If Armageddon is nothing more than an ultimate and final confrontation with my own egoic mind, I'm quite happy with that. Whatever it looks like.
No one to blame but myself.

In symbolic language,especially of the elite, Venus and Lucifer are one and the same. The last two shootings, Aurora and Sandy Hook happened on Friday. Venus' day. That group is very tied into ritual and cosmology. It's part of the Old Ways left or right hand path.

I like your last thought there.

So do these guys really believe this stuff, or is all just a wank? Like a big arcade game. Or is that as interesting as it gets without the benefit of waking up.

Yes, they do believe it. There are cosmic currents that are always wise to note. It is the equivalent of having a sailboat and taking wind and tides into consideration.

There is more unseen all around us than we can see. The ratio is probably easily greater than 100:1.

[D-Day]

It's interesting. 'Lucifer' is mentioned once in Isaiah, meaning Venus, but referencing something with no explanation. and inferring various fallen kings and calling them idolaters.

If Armageddon is nothing more than an ultimate and final confrontation with my own egoic mind, I'm quite happy with that. Whatever it looks like.
No one to blame but myself.

In symbolic language,especially of the elite, Venus and Lucifer are one and the same. The last two shootings, Aurora and Sandy Hook happened on Friday. Venus' day. That group is very tied into ritual and cosmology. It's part of the Old Ways left or right hand path.

I like your last thought there.

So do these guys really believe this stuff, or is all just a wank? Like a big arcade game. Or is that as interesting as it gets without the benefit of waking up.

Ever seen the vidoe documentary Alex Jones made after sneaking into Bohemian Grove during the summer of 2000?

It documents the performance of a rituaistic ceremony involving a large group of cloaked indivduals (which I assume to be "elitist" types) holding flaming torches and chanting whilst gathered around a 40 ft statue of Moloch.

Based on the evidence presented in that video alone I feel it's safe to say they take this stuf VERY seriously.

(there's PLENTY of other evidence to support this line of thinking too btw - although for the purpose of this post I thnk Alex's video makes for a nice IN YOUR FACE audio/visual display)

In case anyone's interested, here are a cople of different versions of the video/doco...

Long version (90 mins): FpKdSvwYsrE

Short version (9 mins): wtSVBTne-KY

[Beren]

If Lucifer really brings light, where are the results of its light?
Oh, here they are, massive deaths of all kinds of life on Earth, separation from love, duality and hatred.

"If the light in you is darkness, how dark it will be?"

The one who is named Lucifer (btw only in some translations- that's not its name , neither the Satan or Devil -those are its nicknames which it deserved) isn't the light bringer.
Light is -and cannot be brought.
How?

Because light shines from the source of light -God-Creator-One-I am...and every particle of God shines the light because it's God's.
Particle cannot bring the light it can only shine what is God's. It's not its own - its Creator's.

So Lightbearer is a fraud. The cloaked darkness that binds life. Darkness who wishes all to be its slaves or subjects, eternally submissive and dependent of it.

[markpierre]

It's interesting. 'Lucifer' is mentioned once in Isaiah, meaning Venus, but referencing something with no explanation. and inferring various fallen kings and calling them idolaters.

If Armageddon is nothing more than an ultimate and final confrontation with my own egoic mind, I'm quite happy with that. Whatever it looks like.
No one to blame but myself.

In symbolic language,especially of the elite, Venus and Lucifer are one and the same. The last two shootings, Aurora and Sandy Hook happened on Friday. Venus' day. That group is very tied into ritual and cosmology. It's part of the Old Ways left or right hand path.

I like your last thought there.

So do these guys really believe this stuff, or is all just a wank? Like a big arcade game. Or is that as interesting as it gets without the benefit of waking up.

Yes, they do believe it. There are cosmic currents that are always wise to note. It is the equivalent of having a sailboat and taking wind and tides into consideration.

There is more unseen all around us than we can see. The ratio is probably easily greater than 100:1.

I'd say more like a gazillion to one, but the content is Reality. Evil dreams are dreams. Hey, gotta say it.

[modwiz]

If Lucifer really brings light, where are the results of its light?
Oh, here they are, massive deaths of all kinds of life on Earth, separation from love, duality and hatred.

"If the light in you is darkness, how dark it will be?"

The one who is named Lucifer (btw only in some translations- that's not its name , neither the Satan or Devil -those are its nicknames which it deserved) isn't the light bringer.
Light is -and cannot be brought.
How?

Because light shines from the source of light -God-Creator-One-I am...and every particle of God shines the light because it's God's.
Particle cannot bring the light it can only shine what is God's. It's not its own - its Creator's.

So Lightbearer is a fraud. The cloaked darkness that binds life. Darkness who wishes all to be its slaves or subjects, eternally submissive and dependent of it.

Agreed. Which is why I used the word gifts. Pieces of the Light. Always pieces.
It is from the Book of Job that we see a game being played. Gamesmanship is the better word. However, Yahweh is not Eru (the One) for me.

We work and try to make sense and bring understanding to the myths we have inherited and been programmed with. Taking the mystery and power from them and depositing it within ourselves could bear good fruit.

[markpierre]

If Lucifer really brings light, where are the results of its light?
Oh, here they are, massive deaths of all kinds of life on Earth, separation from love, duality and hatred.

"If the light in you is darkness, how dark it will be?"

The one who is named Lucifer (btw only in some translations- that's not its name , neither the Satan or Devil -those are its nicknames which it deserved) isn't the light bringer.
Light is -and cannot be brought.
How?

Because light shines from the source of light -God-Creator-One-I am...and every particle of God shines the light because it's God's.
Particle cannot bring the light it can only shine what is God's. It's not its own - its Creator's.

So Lightbearer is a fraud. The cloaked darkness that binds life. Darkness who wishes all to be its slaves or subjects, eternally submissive and dependent of it.

Agreed. Which is why I used the word gifts. Pieces of the Light. Always pieces.
It is from the Book of Job that we see a game being played. Gamesmanship is the better word. However, Yahweh is not Eru (the One) for me.

We work and try to make sense and bring understanding to the myths we have inherited and been programmed with. Taking the mystery and power from them and depositing it within ourselves could bear good fruit.

Maybe 'light' is too loaded a word. Or the darkness we imply with it, is too contaminated with things that we made up. Our fears. The boogyman is under the bed. Well, he is.
But he's a boogyman. I called him scary, and that's the problem. I called him real and then I'm compelled to figure out how bad he is, or who he works for,
or how to dissect him into manageable pieces. Psychiatry maybe. Past life readings.
Never really find him though, and so nothing changes. Still can't see.
We sit here and let the external oppress us. I get the purpose in that, but still, hey, it's dumb.

Light is allegorical for being able to see. If things feel dark to us, that's what dark is. Not being able to see. Uncomfortable. Not the nest of the boogyman.
Just not able to see what's there. Things feel deader in shadow. I think we can $hitcan the whole lot of the myths and say, 'I was younger then,
I'm older than that now.'

I like the image of 'a gift'. It's God's pleasure to be giving that. Light. Whatever you call it. What if we considered the whole of the myths a game, and approach them from the position of
the gamer. Into the gaming dark.
That's what we do. That's quite a different activity than the giving of a gift.
No wonder we can't figure it out.

[modwiz]

If Lucifer really brings light, where are the results of its light?
Oh, here they are, massive deaths of all kinds of life on Earth, separation from love, duality and hatred.

"If the light in you is darkness, how dark it will be?"

The one who is named Lucifer (btw only in some translations- that's not its name , neither the Satan or Devil -those are its nicknames which it deserved) isn't the light bringer.
Light is -and cannot be brought.
How?

Because light shines from the source of light -God-Creator-One-I am...and every particle of God shines the light because it's God's.
Particle cannot bring the light it can only shine what is God's. It's not its own - its Creator's.

So Lightbearer is a fraud. The cloaked darkness that binds life. Darkness who wishes all to be its slaves or subjects, eternally submissive and dependent of it.

Agreed. Which is why I used the word gifts. Pieces of the Light. Always pieces.
It is from the Book of Job that we see a game being played. Gamesmanship is the better word. However, Yahweh is not Eru (the One) for me.

We work and try to make sense and bring understanding to the myths we have inherited and been programmed with. Taking the mystery and power from them and depositing it within ourselves could bear good fruit.

Maybe 'light' is too loaded a word. Or the darkness we imply with it, is somehow contaminated with things that we made up. Our fears. The boogyman is under the bed. Well, he is.
But he's a boogyman. I called him scary, and that's the problem. I called him real and then I'm compelled to figure out how bad he is, or who he works for,
or how to dissect him into manageable pieces. Psychiatry maybe. Past life readings.
Never really find him though, and so nothing really changes.
We sit here and let the external oppress us. I get the purpose in that, but still, hey, it's dumb.

Light is allegorical for being able to see. If things feel dark to us, that's what dark is. Not being able to see. Not the nest of the boogyman.
Just not able to see what's there. Things feel deader in shadow. I think we can $hitcan the whole lot of the myths and say, 'I was younger then,
I'm older than that now.'

I like the image of 'a gift'. It's God's pleasure to be giving that. Light. Whatever you call it. What if we considered the whole of the myths a game, and approach them from the position of
the gamer. Into the gaming dark.
That's what we do. That's quite a different action than the giving of a gift.
No wonder we can't figure it out.

I can only work within established frameworks if any sense it to be made by me, or anyone. Metaphors and allegories are tools. Their purpose is to hopefully break through programming. Myths are much richer than the common usage of the word is understood. Joseph Campbell allowed myth to become the repository of race memories and more, mixed in with some very creative storytelling. Some helpful, some not so helpful. All colorful. I use language in a way that attempts to engage the right brain to work with the left. Cosmology needs the sides working in parallel for a big picture that has detail. Sometimes I am cryptic because it is my way of speaking. Other times I am framing things to obtain the results mentioned above. If the brain does not work in tandem like that, the message is missed and I am called cryptic. To be completely precise and just spell it out would not get the brain to work properly. Concise language often results in the left brain just taking in more data. Very interesting it says. This is not the plan with this information. Ignoring it is an option. It is just me sharing a view. A view that is many years in active development.

Allegory and metaphor need to be digested. Digestion is a breaking down of larger substances into smaller assimilable parts. Poor digestion is not me being cryptic. Allegory and metaphor either have been lost or have never been a part of some peoples ability. Part of my problem may be overestimating the capabilities of some to understand. As an international forum, language adds another barrier to the task. Another big problem is the world I inhabit and the way I think. There may be a foreignness to it.

I'll keep at this for awhile more and see how it goes.

[ulli]

If Lucifer really brings light, where are the results of its light?
Oh, here they are, massive deaths of all kinds of life on Earth, separation from love, duality and hatred.

"If the light in you is darkness, how dark it will be?"

The one who is named Lucifer (btw only in some translations- that's not its name , neither the Satan or Devil -those are its nicknames which it deserved) isn't the light bringer.
Light is -and cannot be brought.
How?

Because light shines from the source of light -God-Creator-One-I am...and every particle of God shines the light because it's God's.
Particle cannot bring the light it can only shine what is God's. It's not its own - its Creator's.

So Lightbearer is a fraud. The cloaked darkness that binds life. Darkness who wishes all to be its slaves or subjects, eternally submissive and dependent of it.

Agreed. Which is why I used the word gifts. Pieces of the Light. Always pieces.
It is from the Book of Job that we see a game being played. Gamesmanship is the better word. However, Yahweh is not Eru (the One) for me.

We work and try to make sense and bring understanding to the myths we have inherited and been programmed with. Taking the mystery and power from them and depositing it within ourselves could bear good fruit.

Maybe 'light' is too loaded a word. Or the darkness we imply with it, is somehow contaminated with things that we made up. Our fears. The boogyman is under the bed. Well, he is.
But he's a boogyman. I called him scary, and that's the problem. I called him real and then I'm compelled to figure out how bad he is, or who he works for,
or how to dissect him into manageable pieces. Psychiatry maybe. Past life readings.
Never really find him though, and so nothing really changes.
We sit here and let the external oppress us. I get the purpose in that, but still, hey, it's dumb.

Light is allegorical for being able to see. If things feel dark to us, that's what dark is. Not being able to see. Not the nest of the boogyman.
Just not able to see what's there. Things feel deader in shadow. I think we can $hitcan the whole lot of the myths and say, 'I was younger then,
I'm older than that now.'

I like the image of 'a gift'. It's God's pleasure to be giving that. Light. Whatever you call it. What if we considered the whole of the myths a game, and approach them from the position of
the gamer. Into the gaming dark.
That's what we do. That's quite a different action than the giving of a gift.
No wonder we can't figure it out.

I thought that's what awakening is...to see that it is all a myth, made by myth makers. Then you want to know who ARE these people, these myth makers? Who do they think they are??
But that can be another trap, in becoming too fascinated with them one might become like them.
So more shedding is required.
But then, what is left?
Only the question of origin and destiny, which cannot be answered, as the answer is hidden in the mists of infinity and eternity, two concepts which the mind has no ability to grasp.
But at least these mists are grey in tone which would be a consolation for those who used to be afraid of the dark.
Getting rid of fear is what consolation is all about. Creates right attitude, from which the creative process can flow.
And before ya know it, you've become a myth maker yourself, hopefully minus their methods...but a newer, fresher variety.

[markpierre]

Allegory and metaphor need to be digested. Digestion is a breaking down of larger substances into smaller assimilable parts. Poor digestion is not me being cryptic. Allegory and metaphor either have been lost or have never been a part of some peoples ability. Part of my problem may be underestimating the capabilities of some to understand. As an international forum, language adds another barrier to the task. Another big problem is the world I inhabit and the way I think. There may be a foreignness to it.

I'll keep at this for awhile more and see how it goes. I will yield to those who can keep it going.

Ya I know. Maybe that's the problem for me. Revelatory mind doesn't figure things out, it discovers them. When I have that, it's pure joy.
When I don't, I don't want to be bothered figuring anything out. Too lazy or too dumb or something.

Hey I think you do an amazing job of keeping yourself understandable. I wish I could do that. You're not so cryptic. Just a wizard. A s....wordsman.

[9eagle9]

Meta-phor

Meta-phys.

The similarity of the two words and their roots here is something to keep close to hand.

It's called believing something into existence by (ab)using the Creation Matrix in a corrupt way. Those guys believe that because it exists in the levels of reality that are parastical in nature. Constructs can be built, inhabited and then summoned. They begin to assume self awareness. Anything that starts to have awareness begins to enter the thresholds of reality. People make contracts and agreements to them. They want something, the construct can act on the non physical level to provide it for them, the payment is blood.

One can transcend the field they work in. Because the field permeates us I'd suggest its a good idea that we do. The field they work in most permeates the emotional body, theirs and ours. Until we become aware they then have a back door into us.

Understand they have had thousands of years to build their gods and their power.

Because the constructs 'believe' that blood will provide to them something that we have that they want. That is an evolutionary process, eventually, maybe they will get what we have in totality. I already see it happening. The mechanics of that is explained in other threads.

This is where life gets 'fun'. We are supposed to prevent this from happening to ourselves. Unfortunately one is not supposed to mention it...lol... because someone's 'feelings' may get hurt. Yes this is a bizarre reason to keep people squashed and enslaved but that is how their 'magick' works. The reason people's feelings get hurt ultimately is to prevent them from entering that field , keeping it hidden or ...occult. It's not really its just that people are operating under their spell and can't see it.

IN our commonly perceived reality, they've attempted to prohibit clearer people from working in that field. However it is a field that permeates all of us as we are composed of many different spaces, levels of dimensions. That is why they are so trip triggery and scared at any moment someone could wake up and see the field for what it is, so they have to work on it constantly in a routine way, with a carefully prescribed set of conditions.

With the Tower of Babel.

In clear metaphysics light is light. I don't need to explain to you what light is. The sun produces light. Light also means with less mass, or weight, or encumberance. Someone who sets down their baggage is lighter than someone who is not.

There's two properties or condition that falls under the word light.

Illumination -- light from the sun, light from a bulb. (not wisdom, not knowledge) Illumination tends to be the ends not the means.

Less Density. In Metaphysics Less Density is the operative word here.

Dark- Dense, laden heavy with physical and non physical matter (thoughts, beliefs, constructs,)

Negative Deficient, taken away from, 3-4=minus 1, clearing A mathematical principal a tool used in part to work with alchemical values.

Positive Full fulfillment, abundance, over abundance, greed, too much of.

Dimension - a unit of measurement .

Energy that is not encumbered or less encumbered by density is light energy. Energy that is moved through filters will have a different vibrational level than unfiltered energy. Demonstrate this for yourself. Smack your hand on a counter-top and notice the vibration. Now smack your hand on a drum head and notice the difference in vibration. Metaphysical properties are easily demonstrable and revealed to the material senses IF one hasn't distorted the language.

Unfortunately the tower of babel has provided a new program of language where negative means evil, positive is a feeling, positive is good best better and the only moral way of doing things, light means energy, spirit, and dark is bad, dimension is a place...lol.

When we go into the alchemical aspects of metaphysics, this becomes a real problem . If a chemist was going to make an elixir with botanicals of a certain property but couldn't use rosemary because it was negative, or sage because it was dark how they going to progress with their elixirs if they are programmed to believe the components are something other than what they are. They are what they are.


This is why people who leap into 'new age' without studying metaphysics get themselves in trouble. And appear like babbling idiots. The Babel runneth strong in them. And there's nothing you can do about it because that field we spoke of earlier that holds them in thrall will get imposed on.

Matrix breaking and spell breaking have very little difference between the two.


The Tower of Babel these people employ crank up redefines the word so that when a clear metaphysician speaks a person doesn't understand what they are taking about because a new language has been imposed on them.

When I say light I mean less dense. Other people due to the tower of babel program think I'm talking about (hold your breath) God, Source, energy, illumination, spirit.

Light is a metaphor for less encumbered energy. Spirit has less encumbered energy but its not the actual light. Misled philosophy. If one wants to be a philosopher of the world one SHOULD know the naturally occurring properties of the world.

Try casting a spell when you have no idea what you are talking about. Which is why people fail at meta-physics. The same way a material scientist would fail if they didn't know what chlorophyll was or what akaline or acidity meant. This whole deviation from what words and conditions mean is a dark spell. It attempts to hide reality. Try casting a metaphor and you will rule the world.

Early on people who abused metaphysical properties in a such a fashion were accused of using dark-craft. Hiding, implementing or mis-using the real definition of things. Falling away from reality. Truly this is the veil between worlds.

Metaphysically speaking if I were referring to anything of those things I would have just said them in their proper context. People are unhappy (emotional body)if you use them in their proper context and that is when one knows they are operating from this field I spoke of earlier. Not because they are bad or dark, they are ignorant deficient (negative) or otherwise lacking in illumination. They are not light they are dense with their own non physical conditions.

For the rest of us the expectation is that we transcend that field of reality and work in a clearer field. So this is real field. The field itself is not evil its been encumbered. The mechanics of how it become reality for them is explained in other threads.

Transcending those fields of reality is the better part of waking up. If we are too lazy to learn what certain naturally occurring conditions mean we probably won't.

Lucifer itself is a archetypical metaphor for falling away from reality. This does not MEAN that Lucifer fell away from reality. We are going to change dark into something other than what it really Lucifer is a metaphor for what they are actually doing. Falling away from reality and attempting to take others with them. Fallen kings. People who venerate light as something other than what it is , is an idolater. If ignorance is a benchmark of sin, then they could thus be called sinners. Fallen away from what is real, so they can be seduced by something that was conjured regardless if it is 'light' or not.

It doesn't matter if Lucifer brought the light. Or not. What matters is what was done with it afterwards. Light existed in the physical world long before Lucifer did so go figure.

The essential core of the matter is because the field they work in permeates our emotional body, they use our emotional bodies to keep this matrix in place.




It's interesting. 'Lucifer' is mentioned once in Isaiah, meaning Venus, but referencing something with no explanation. and inferring various fallen kings and calling them idolaters.

If Armageddon is nothing more than an ultimate and final confrontation with my own egoic mind, I'm quite happy with that. Whatever it looks like.
No one to blame but myself.

In symbolic language,especially of the elite, Venus and Lucifer are one and the same. The last two shootings, Aurora and Sandy Hook happened on Friday. Venus' day. That group is very tied into ritual and cosmology. It's part of the Old Ways left or right hand path.

I like your last thought there.

So do these guys really believe this stuff, or is all just a wank? Like a big arcade game. Or is that as interesting as it gets without the benefit of waking up.

[ViralSpiral]

There is more unseen all around us than we can see. The ratio



Should read:

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio

:biggrin1:


Thanks for the thread, and brain jog

[TOTHE]

Metaphysics and hard science merge: Physicist Paul LaViolette, PhD (November, 29 blog post) engages the resources of the Farsight Institute for the G2 gas cloud event July 2013 and the superwave of 2037. In spite of this Paul seems skeptical about the human effect because of conflicting and time distorted RV info.
Lots of science & metaphysics info in the supporting links here.

http://starburstfound.org/superwaveblog/?p=267

[AwakeInADream]

G2 gas cloud event July 2013 and the superwave of 2037.
Thank's ToThe!:) Good info!
Two more 'End of the World' dates to anticipate! :lol:
(or consciousness raising depending on your POV)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Modwiz. Wonderful answers. Thank you!:)

I know that Lucifer is associated with Venus 'The Bright Morning Star',
but in Revelation, Jesus was too.:confused:

Maybe you could clear up this astrological link between Jesus and Lucifer for me?

(P.S I'm not meaning to steer this thread onto a religious bias, so do tell me if I'm
straying to far off topic.:o)

[PurpleLama]

I almost commented earlier, about how one finds the terms morning star or son of the morning to alternately refer to jesus or the devil within the prophetic portions of the OT, and likewise the words messiah and serpent each having the same numerological value, which is understood to carry the same underlying energetic signature, so to speak. Good guys disguised as bad guys, bad guys disguised as good guys, sorta like real life.

[9eagle9]

Like light became love, source, and God. And negative become evil or at the very least angry.

How love become need, the 'sacred' heart become the 'teacher' even though it can't find its arse for the clouds.

How Jesus become Lucifer and vice versa.

They've always done that, they don't know how to do anything differently. And 2000 plus years later we collectively have not noticed that...lol.

[Carmody]

I almost commented earlier, about how one finds the terms morning star or son of the morning to alternately refer to jesus or the devil within the prophetic portions of the OT, and likewise the words messiah and serpent each having the same numerological value, which is understood to carry the same underlying energetic signature, so to speak. Good guys disguised as bad guys, bad guys disguised as good guys, sorta like real life.

Or that in astrology, the avatar is inflicted with the occupant, as a direct connection (might be tied to the 'silver cord' thingie), at the astrological position of the dawn, when the person/avatar 'exits the birth canal', ie, the moment of 'birth'.

This is known in astrology, as the ascendant, which can be described as the 'rose colored glasses' that the given person sees through, bi-directionally, throughout their life. The ascendant , being this down to earth/connection moment, is the edge of the dawn, which is the descriptor, in many ways for the angel Lucifer, who was the angel of the dawn, the light bringer. Which is co-incidentally, tied to the idea of being 'cast down', ie, astrolgically, 'inserted into the body'.

Now THIS is very relevant in the science of it all, regarding dimensional interactions with what we call matter vs gases, vs vapour, vs fluids, vs charge fields, vs liquids, vs MHD systems, VS plasmas - and so on.

This is relevant in the discussion of the idea that Lucifer, has 'colored' our capacity to see, or that we have to see past this given issue of the bi-directional coloration of the 'angel of the dawn'. Also in the fact that it is an energetic reflection or angular change point, and thus has multi-faceted reflections or echos, that are cast through dimension, time and space. reflective harmonic structures.... AND within them all, perfect points of non-reflected energetic passing or egress. Both.

This is the exact mechanism by which over unity devices work. they deal with the FTL aspects of dark matter fields and how they interact with what we call linear unidirectional time and space.

Suffice it to say, that I could lay out the much of the scientific descriptor for the origins of the idea of Lucifer as tied to the mechanics of the situation and dimensions, and their integrations.

the reasons I say idea, is this gets into the area of tulpas and body borne or originated collective tulpas, that may be what is created by the insertion of the being into the avatar. and that this great level of similarity of avatar may be what brings rise to the existence of a group tulpa, that is based on the individual and group body energetics, as reflected by and part of the autonomous functions of the body, which at their highest function, might be what we call the ego. this goes right in the explorations of Buddha, and Jesus in the desert, regarding getting by Lucifer, which is strikingly similar to passing by ego function in the given individual. strikingly high similarity. As in inseparably the same, as descriptors of process go. Ie, that the collective tulpa, which just happens to reach to the edge of the stars..is like that of 'Typhon'. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhon)

As well the stories that this thing that is the object of the highest levels of the so called evil side of things, this energetic cannot occupy a human body. just as a collective ego would stand being accused of. That it is clever and self affected and fleshy in it's directions, self centered and has unlimited appetites, being a form of programmed automaton. At the same time it has access to all. But, being a base program, no matter WHAT it's desires and emotions may be , will NEVER be able to occupy the human body, it is not alive, it is organic programming..nothing more.

BTW, we have JUST found what is considered an impossibility, which is the negative energetic reflection of dark matter. Ie, organized matter, kinetic and set, a well below absolute zero temperatures. Which was previously considered the lowest temperature possible in the universe. yes, negative absolute zero temperatures. Organized kinetically enabled dark matter at below absolute zero.

Recall my descriptor that organized energies are the basis of all intelligence in the universe. That this, as differential, must exist. Now we find the dimensional mirror. the chill of the 'ghost' passing. the lowered temperature the freezing of over unity devices. (they almost always COOL, over unity devices... and almost never heat)

Returning to the idea of the collective Tulpa, it would serve ans an excellent group lesson that needs be passed through and by, by the given group of avatar occupants, who are individually raising themselves via soul inclusion and then the raising of the avatar to a level where it too can emerge on the galactic stage, IF the individuals can collectively raise themselves enough to finally work to get by the collective Tulpa.

Everything is in place for this to be the actual case, and it makes it's own form of logic, regarding all the written and speculated literature and records.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Ernie's question: "Is there a difference between feelings and emotions?"


9eagles: It should be up to you if you want to feel an emotion.

Feelings are wrought in part from emotions, HURT feelings and PLEASANT feelings.

There are physical feelings and their are emotional feelings.



Modwiz: To answer you last question before going into words, Yes.

The emotional body is an energetic quasi-physical body. I say quasi-physical because, although it is not in the 3rd dimension it leans up against it and ripples into it. This ability to physically feel especially due to hormonal releases and cascades, give the emotional body a physical representation.

Anyway. The emotional body like your physical body can "feel" the movements and pokes (disharmonics) of the E=energy-motions. E-motions. We "feel" this motion.


Humour me a bit, okay? What is clearly being said is that feelings in this context are in fact an extension of my normal sense of touch - That I feel an emotion like I do a hot stove. So I could say I feel the emotion of love or I feel the emotion of sadness. But when I say I feel sad, this is then my descision about the emotion of sadness: "I will feel sad because I am experiencing the emotion of sadness." Is that right? (by the way, I always thought it was the other way around: that I feel sad {sad being a state or statement of fact} and emote or express the emotion of sadness)

The truth is, if I've got it straight, Emotions are a source field, apart from or adjacent to the material realm from where sense data can be (and is) obtained.

But this is confusing, because that means this emotional field contains all states of mind simultaneously and we merely pick and choose which feeling we wish to experience.

Which means we must gaurd our feelings and guide them towards more uplifting tides of emotion, perhaps further afield.
It opens up an avenue to explore where states of mind originate from and possible methods to remedy any aberrant behavoir previously considered just part of a person's makeup.

Very interesting, if I've got it right.

[9eagle9]

The emotional body contains different sorts of fields not necessarily different states of mind. The mental body isn't there anyway.

What you mean by 'source' fields depends on how corrupt the field is. or what you mean by source. Source as in higher power or source as in origins. I'd say if the field is corrupt its not from Source.


When I say we can choose emotions I'm not talking about flipping them on and off like a light switch. You can't guide anything towards a more uplifting tide if it's stuck. That is like asking people to be positive about their thoughts when their emotional state or field is deficient. They can't. Positive isn't an emotion, isn't a thought. Then one is simply asking someone to do something they can't do, although they might 'think' they are doing it. By violence usually, forcing something to be the way it really isn't.

Say you are sad.

There's two routes here you can take (choices) . Why are you sad. Is there reasonable explanation for it. Like your friend died and you are at their funeral. That is a healthy state of emotional body. It's not fun happy positive or light but its healthy. It's reasonable. There's a REASON for it.

Or are you sad for no reason. Okay that is not healthy. Something not apparent is stirring your emotional state. Can you sit in that sadness and let it release or do you have to start running a program on it? Distract yourself, lecture yourself, etc. Can you accept your sadness, and own it so you begin the means to manage it. Or do you deny or run from it.

Is it external? Internal? Is it yours at all? If you are water person you are apt to become become sad for no APPARENT reason. There's always a reason its just not apparent. Is something pulling your strings? Did some stuck emotion get jarred loose and come to the surface to be processed? Another hallmark of a water person. Are you thinking thoughts that have enflamed the emotional body? Depending on the person I would find the SOURCE of the malaise and then correct it from there. There's always a choice.

We can't guard our feelings, we can only clear the field. Guarded feelings typically means 'squelched or pushed down feelings' you compress them enough they get stuck. They are matter, of the non physical sort.

The choice to process in this manner (or another) is the choice I'm talking about.

[modwiz]

G2 gas cloud event July 2013 and the superwave of 2037.
Thank's ToThe!:) Good info!
Two more 'End of the World' dates to anticipate! :lol:
(or consciousness raising depending on your POV)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Modwiz. Wonderful answers. Thank you!:)

I know that Lucifer is associated with Venus 'The Bright Morning Star',
but in Revelation, Jesus was too.:confused:

Maybe you could clear up this astrological link between Jesus and Lucifer for me?

(P.S I'm not meaning to steer this thread onto a religious bias, so do tell me if I'm
straying to far off topic.:o)

I am unaware of Jesus being associated with Venus and I would need to see the text that says this to try and make sense of it. However, I see PL has already used a term that IIRC is the one used for Jesus and that would be son of the morning or Sun of the morning. Jesus is a solar diety. All of the Son/Sun words shout this affiliation. Morning star and son of the morning are very different things. Especially in light of the fact the the morning star is a planet, Venus, and can only reflect light from the Sun, an actual star. Word usage is far more exact in mythos and magic. They are spells after all. Common language usage is more like Babel/babble.

[modwiz]

Ernie's question: "Is there a difference between feelings and emotions?"


9eagles: It should be up to you if you want to feel an emotion.

Feelings are wrought in part from emotions, HURT feelings and PLEASANT feelings.

There are physical feelings and their are emotional feelings.



Modwiz: To answer you last question before going into words, Yes.

The emotional body is an energetic quasi-physical body. I say quasi-physical because, although it is not in the 3rd dimension it leans up against it and ripples into it. This ability to physically feel especially due to hormonal releases and cascades, give the emotional body a physical representation.

Anyway. The emotional body like your physical body can "feel" the movements and pokes (disharmonics) of the E=energy-motions. E-motions. We "feel" this motion.


Humour me a bit, okay? What is clearly being said is that feelings in this context are in fact an extension of my normal sense of touch - That I feel an emotion like I do a hot stove. So I could say I feel the emotion of love or I feel the emotion of sadness. But when I say I feel sad, this is then my descision about the emotion of sadness: "I will feel sad because I am experiencing the emotion of sadness." Is that right? (by the way, I always thought it was the other way around: that I feel sad {sad being a state or statement of fact} and emote or express the emotion of sadness)

The truth is, if I've got it straight, Emotions are a source field, apart from or adjacent to the material realm from where sense data can be (and is) obtained.

But this is confusing, because that means this emotional field contains all states of mind simultaneously and we merely pick and choose which feeling we wish to experience.

Which means we must gaurd our feelings and guide them towards more uplifting tides of emotion, perhaps further afield.
It opens up an avenue to explore where states of mind originate from and possible methods to remedy any aberrant behavoir previously considered just part of a person's makeup.

Very interesting, if I've got it right.

As I do have to get my Metaphysics 101 post out tonight and hopefully some of the terminology I use will make more sense and be useful. I will try my best to create some clarity here, in as few words as possible.

The emotions and the corresponding subtle body are cognate (of the same or similar nature : generically alike) with the element of Water. Since I will be getting into the basic properties of the Elements in my 101 post, for now let us think of an nonreactive emotional body as a container of water at rest. Water in a balloon in a weightless environment is not a bad picture to imagine. A pool of still water is also good. Whatever works.

Any disturbance of this still water creates effects of some sort. Ripples can occur on the surface, currents can move, quite powerfully at the bottom or barely noticed on the surface. The movements in this metaphor are e-motions. Motions resulting from an impetus or energetic input into the medium. Now since the mental and emotional bodies work in tandem, kind of like the left and right hemispheres of the brain, much of the energetic input for the emotional body comes via the mental body. The mental body is represented by the element of Air. When we have thoughts they create "breezes" of a sort. This creates some movement of the emotional body even if it is little more than "attention". The word disturb is a good one to look at here because is is a very good example of word misunderstanding, which results in confusion. This almost always makes problems.
Disturb is basically to move something. We hopefully are aware of what the prefix dis means. We hopefully know what a prefix is. Anyway, the root word part here is 'turb. Turbine, turbulence, perturb. Disturb is generally perceived as a negative word. Negative is another very misunderstood word which 9eagle has addressed very well. In short negative is to subtract from. So, disturb is to move something. That movement may irk someone emotionally and then they will call that negative. Having fun yet?

To close on this I will address endogenic and exogenic disturbances/movements of/within the emotional body. Endogenic movements are usually caused by the mental body creating ripples in the emotional body. This is natural and how things work. It is fine to like or not like things. The mental body depends on the emotional body to color the outlines it defines in creating reality. The emotions add magnetism to ideas that then allow them to manifest. This goes for pleasant as well as unpleasant experiences/creations.

Exogenic emotional body disturbances come for external agents. Remember now, disturbance it to exert influence upon and has no "negative" (unpleasant is the correct word) connotation here. So, our guides, ancestors or other shared fields (morphogenetic field may have some aspect that impacts the emotions since they are such powerful movers and magnetizers). Of course, we have malign influences. Loosh generation seems to be exogenic in origin. Like ants squeezing aphids for some of the sweet juice they like. Ants protect their aphids however and do not have a parasitic relationship with them.

So, Ernie. I hope that works for you. If not, try again.

[9eagle9]

Deceased. It means dead, cease to exist.

Right?

Wrong.

It doesn't.

De (away from)

Cease (ending, stopping)

It means away from dead. Away from ending. It's word that relates more to living and reincarnation than death.

The problem with the emotional body is that water is hard to contain. If you put it in a container and it freezes it will break the container. If you freeze it, it will melt. If you contain it too long it escapes by evaporation and rejoins itself. You can't put a drop of water in the ocean and hope to expect to retrieve it again. Water is very difficult to control, its run all over the world spraying its graffiti that results in constructs like the Grand Canyon. In this respect we see how Air and Water court and consort with each other, how they are different but similar. Air leaves graffiti too, and Air of course is found in water. Like air its hard to contain. This gives rise to the concept of unlimited. Air can stir water in ways that result in creativity or destruction depending on what the condition of the water is like. Spirit moves through air much more easily than through a toxic emotional body. they are both pneumatic in nature. However... We spend our lives inviting spirit into a toxic environment.

The only way to contain the emotional body is to make it toxic. Imagine a glass of clear water . The water will escape eventually. Puts some drops of die in and toxify it. That is the only way to control the emotional body is to poison it. Most people have toxic emo bodies. Detoxifying is the only way to manage it.

[Curt]

Modwiz,

Thank you for this thread. I've really appreciated the insights and the substance.

One thing occurs to me. In the movie Dr. Strangelove, there is an American general who is obsessed with the Soviets' alleged covert attempts to steal 'his water'.

He seems unhinged in a quiet and determined sort of way. As I recall, he's more concerned about this theft of his 'bodily fluid' than nuclear annihilation.

In the context of the film, it is very funny.

But in relation to the information in this thread concerning water, i.e., its inherent properties, and its function as a 'conductor' for human emotion/behavior--I now see this scene in a whole new light.

[modwiz]

I am not quite ready for another big one, although I am forming it in concept. The water hasn't broken on the idea yet. LOL
So a quick concept/word buster.

Keeping up with the thread has impacted my eating habit somewhat. I am eating less of what I normally do, but filling in the gaps with not the most optimal selections. Not sure if I'm gaining weight of losing it. The only reason I mention this is because it sets up a quick discussion on positive and negative and their popular usage and meaning. So if I am losing weight that is a negative thing, because my weight is decreasing. Subtraction is negative in nature. One can say 4 negative 3 equals one. It may sound odd because we would normally say minus. Minus is negative. However, If I was overweight or obese most would say that is a positive thing, because positive has become synonymous with good. Removal of the more powerful and core nature of words is bad magic. Bad magic is usually intentional. There are some bad habits that could pass for bad magic as far as intent goes. Even though it is not intentional. Getting a headache? (The above example was inspired (plagiarized) by a conversation with 9eagle)

Proper word usage and spelling matter. Spelling often reveals the intent with homonyms. It is one thing to utter a spell where sound vibration is everything. Writing is another form of magic.

This is a warm up to where I am going next. A primer on the elements and beginning a discussion on the mental body. It may have seemed as if some of us have been picking at, blaming the emotional body for all kinds of ills. Wait until I start on the mental body. The emotional body will have a fit, LOL. The emotional body's reaction to ideas has almost everything to do with the mental body. The mental body is the emotional body's keeper. It is also its' primary container. All of that will become clear or clearer when a discussion of the elements, their properties and association with the anatomy, subtle and otherwise, is discussed.

[Freed Fox]

Modwiz,

Thank you for this thread. I've really appreciated the insights and the substance.

One thing occurs to me. In the movie Dr. Strangelove, there is an American general who is obsessed with the Soviets' alleged covert attempts to steal 'his water'.

He seems unhinged in a quiet and determined sort of way. As I recall, he's more concerned about this theft of his 'bodily fluid' than nuclear annihilation.

In the context of the film, it is very funny.

But in relation to the information in this thread concerning water, i.e., its inherent properties, and its function as a 'conductor' for human emotion/behavior--I now see this scene in a whole new light.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KPuArx0DDCM/TgB2Kp8SfmI/AAAAAAAADXA/owKftrD5UOQ/s1600/JackSaysYes.gif

[Jeffrey]

Water Has a Memory

ILSyt_Hhbjg


ADD/UPDATE:

The Shape of Sound

DGSU5rcHmRQ

[modwiz]

Water Has a Memory

ILSyt_Hhbjg

What a brilliant and thoughtful contribution this is, Vivek. Yes! Water has memory, it programs, retains any coherent vibration. Sure it can retain incoherence, but that is static noise that is self clearing. Clearing of the water, resetting the programming and memory. These are a huge part of the healing of the emotional body. True forgiving is a form of clearing. Not easy for most, but the right use of will always works.

[ThePythonicCow]

Deceased. It means dead, cease to exist.

Right?

Wrong.

It doesn't.

De (away from)

Cease (ending, stopping)

It means away from dead. Away from ending. It's word that relates more to living and reincarnation than death.

From my Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged (1968, pg 584):


de-cease [ ME deces, from Latin decessus departure, death, from decessus past participle of decedere depart, die, from de from, away + cedere to go ]
So, in particular, the "cease" in "decease" refers not to an ending or stopping, but rather to a traversal ("to go"). To "decease" is to "go away".

I was not a good student of Latin, but I was a Latin student of some sort for three years, and this seems right to me.

[modwiz]

I am sort of taking the weekend off from posting. For whatever reason, my mental body is sluggish. I hope to get a post out later.

Here is a thread that is complimenting the discussion here. http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54013-Blowing-the-Whistle-on-Enlightenment-and-loosh&p=611901#post611901
It discusses loosh. Emotional management and loosh are companion discussions.

Here is an excellent article at the excellent Montalk.net site.
http://montalk.net/matrix/64/emotional-management

[Mark]

A few thoughts, putting some things together. Not wedded to much here, just thinking with my fingers about a few of the interrelated topics spanning these threads:

Cancer, Scorpio and Pisces, Water Signs, are obviously the folks who are going to represent the extremities of its expression in the world, being ruled by their emotional centers. Because the Earth Signs, Capricorn, Taurus and Virgo, get along so well with the Water Signs, and are also extremely emotional, they have many of the same issues. The Air Signs, Libra, Aquarius and Gemini are head-ruled, more detached, as are the Fire Signs, Aries, Leo and Sagittarius.

If you were to rate them on the scale of emotionality, I suppose Water and Earth would be more right-brain ruled, Air and Fire, more left-brain ruled. Given the many planetary and star-based variations possible, with Ascendants and Moon-signs, squares and trines and all that - all taken alongside the reality that they are templates only and can also be affected by life circumstance, family, societal and cultural emphases - generalizations remain just that. The biological programming of Astrology is not a straight-jacket. Just an indication of nature. Nature can be transcended and is meant to be.

Considering the many profound scientific and biological potentialities as laid out by Vivek in the "metaphors of meaning (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53625-The-Psyche-Metaphors-of-Meaning)" thread, that "programming" may be more applicable to those who are more slave to their biology than some other people might be. As an example, someone who is genetically compromised, potentially an unconscious OP, with biological "original sin" compromising at the mitochondrial level of their being may represent the "tares/pre-adamic" in aspects of their personality development, as opposed to the non-compromised individual with mitochondria more or less intact, representing those who are of the "wheat/adamic" lineage. Those so compromised may represent the templating of Astrology more rigidly than those not so limited, who possess the ability to "transcend" their programming. What comes immediately to mind is the warning by Gnostics and others that the two types of people are fundamentally different in nature and there is little or no chance of the OPs obtaining the capacity to express higher capabilities during their lifetimes.

And yet, again, environment plays a large part and can overrule the biological programming if the impetus to do so is strong enough. Monarch Alters come to mind as one example. Psychological trauma inflicted at an early age through any number of methods or experiences either human-planned or karmic/dharmic in nature. Trauma-based programming can only lead to an intensified material expression of what are already potentially biological limitations.

As 9e9 stated earlier (i think, in this thread), when the chemicals start pouring into the body - as a result of fight or flight or some other mentally-based stimuli that begins the process of an emotional rush state - that overwhelming feeling can be very difficult to control. For the biologically-compromised, it can be impossible to control, hence, the reality that psychopaths are impulse-oriented, find it difficult to plan and do things on the spur of the moment. At the same time, psychopaths can plan serial-killings, long-term machinations on the stock market, create institutions and pograms that play out over decades and centuries. So, at the extreme ends of the bell curve you find individuals of the same orientation displaying oppositional characteristics that may have something to do with their natal charts and the environmental parameters of their upbringings.

[modwiz]

A few thoughts, putting some things together. Not wedded to much here, just thinking with my fingers about a few of the interrelated topics spanning these threads:


Considering the many profound scientific and biological potentialities as laid out by Vivek in the "metaphors of meaning (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53625-The-Psyche-Metaphors-of-Meaning)" thread, that "programming" may be more applicable to those who are more slave to their biology than some other people might be. As an example, someone who is genetically compromised, potentially an unconscious OP, with biological "original sin" compromising at the mitochondrial level of their being may represent the "tares/pre-adamic" in aspects of their personality development, as opposed to the non-compromised individual with mitochondria more or less intact, representing those who are of the "wheat/adamic" lineage. Those so compromised may represent the templating of Astrology more rigidly than those not so limited, who possess the ability to "transcend" their programming. What comes immediately to mind is the warning by Gnostics and others that the two types of people are fundamentally different in nature and there is little or no chance of the OPs obtaining the capacity to express higher capabilities during their lifetimes.


I picked just this small piece for your post. Excellent post, BTW.

The two lineages, have for the most part, co-mingled extensively. Which side of the lineage does one lean toward? As it may be seen, there is room for the view that one gets the genetic package they get and that's it. I have my take on that view. There are options.

Epigenetics allow for going under (around or over also apply here) the hood and making adjustments within the 'operating system', so to speak. I believe there is an underlying 'lesson' here in this situation. Who one is and how one operates is a choice. The beauty of this the fairness of it. My cosmological view has me picking my parents, genetics and country of birth, to name a few parameters. Many do not accept this view. They do not see it. I think they are not really looking. To stand in this view takes away all claims at victimhood. All "poor me" paths close down. This is not to deny that these "poor me" moments arise from time to time. It is do declare bullsh!t of the idea/feeling as a long term legitimate on that gets any focus attention.

To a true sovereign and autonomous requires one to think like one. This is not about isolation. Comparing notes, like this and other threads, is the way forward, IMO. We can, and are wise to, help one another we just can't do it for another. Comparing notes can be helpful as long as confusion is avoided. As always, when helping, one has to be aware that altruism invites parasitism. Awareness can prevent or remedy such things.

In the above scenario, wheat and chaff are self selecting. We can then get away form the false, we are all equal meme. It is not a true statement by any observation. This applies to the concept of equally capable in all ways. Most do know this but, memes are built to bury this. With that said, I am all for equal access to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We are equals as inhabitants of this planet and are partners in the resources.

The concept of the masses getting to vote for their government is one of the Protocols of the elite. The purpose being the governments we now see and have.

[9eagle9]

In Latin Decessus means exactly what it means.... in Latin.

In english the word means the opposite when it's parsed.. in english.


Latin remains somewhat of an uncorrupted language because it's a dead language. There isn't much in the way of lingual shifting there because it's no longer used conversationally. That is why sciences use latin, so a word remains the word its always been.In English this not so. So when people complain about the complexity of latin words in biology and science books its because the definition remains dependable in doing so.

It is hair raising to know how many people confuse arenica with arsenic.

Now with our convertible programmable languages De-Cease when broken down into its prefix and root form in English and using English parse forms, it means the opposite of what people have been told it means.

The basis of programming.

Parsing fell out of our school curriculum ages past for this reason. So people don't know what words mean.

[Mark]

Hi Modwiz. There is a parable in the Kolbrin (http://thekolbrin.com/), written about the time of the Great Flood, that speaks to the idea of victimhood. It also speaks of multidimensional entities that men sacrifice unto, their - and our - orientations and - to an extent - their relation to this world. Rather than writing a long thing, I'll include that for now as I find it apropos of our conversation at this turn of the bend. Etymologically speaking:

Victim: late 15c., "living creature killed and offered as a sacrifice to a deity or supernatural power," from L. victima "person or animal killed as a sacrifice." Perhaps distantly connected to O.E. wig "idol," Goth. weihs "holy," Ger. weihen "consecrate" (cf. Weihnachten "Christmas") on notion of "a consecrated animal." Sense of "person who is hurt, tortured, or killed by another" is first recorded 1650s; meaning "person oppressed by some power or situation" is from 1718. Weaker sense of "person taken advantage of" is recorded from 1781.

Considering the "topic of topics" we are currently engaged in, it is fitting that this term does not mean what people generally think it means. At the same time, not everyone who looks like a victim necessarily is.


Thus, it is written in the record of Beltshera; In those days the people were wicked and
though the wise men among them gave many warnings of the wrath to come, they
would not listen, such is the way of the wicked. So it came about that the Chastening
Spirit became stirred up against them because of the odour of wickedness arising from
the Earth, for her nostrils abhor the smell of evil. This is a smell no man can know, for as
the hounds know the smell of fear, which no man can detect, so can other beings know
the smell of wickedness.

The great floodgates which are above Earth were all opened. Thus, the floodwaters
rose up to cover the land and great rainstorms lashed down. The winds could no longer
discover their destinations.

The people left the plain of Shinara and fled up into a great mountain rising above the
flatlands below, and here, near the summit, they camped. Feeling themselves secured,
the wicked mocked, saying, "No water can ever reach up here, for there is not enough
of it in Heaven or Earth". Still the waters rose ever higher and the mouths of the wicked
were silenced. The priests of the people danced and chanted in vain, and many rituals
were performed to appease the wrath above.

There came a period of quietness, then the people built a gateway to Heaven wherein
the Chief of Interpreters might commune with the Other Realm. He entered into the
silence and cast his spirit, and when he had done so it contacted the Chastening Spirit
which men call by other names. Her voice was heard within his heart and it said, "I am
that which has been called forth by the odour of wickedness arising from the bodies of
men, which no incense can disguise. For as the smell of putrefaction assails the nostrils
of men, so does wickedness give forth something which assails us in this realm.
Wickedness is, therefore, an offence against us. If a man threw filth over the wall into
your courtyard, would you not consider this an act of hostility? Could any among you
live in harmony with those who were insensitive to your own sensitivity? Thus, I am
awakened to happenings in the world of men and am now clothed in a performing
substance".

The Spiritbeing said, "I have no desire to unduly punish men. Go out to the people and
tell them that if they will but mend their ways and walk no more in the path of
wickedness, I shall depart". But when the Chief of Interpreters returned to the people he
found them fearful and distraught, clay in the hands of false priests, devotees of the
baleful gods. The false priests were crying out for a sacrifice to their gods and had
seized Anis, a young man more handsome than any other, a messenger and runner
between cities. Then, though they whispered fearfully among themselves concerning

the deed, the people had seized Nanua, handmaiden of Eloma, the Enlightened One,
whose life was dedicated to Illana, for she had cried out curses upon their heads when
the young man was taken.

Nanua and Anis were held by the false priests and about them surged the great mass of
the people, and though the Chief of Interpreters raised his voice it went unheeded. Then
the mass of the people moved down to the water's edge and there they stopped while
the priests shouted prayers to the gods raging above. All the Heavens were darkened
with great rolling clouds and there were high winds and lightning about the mountain
top. The people rent their garments, the women wailed and men struck their forearms.
Anis was beaten with a club and delivered to the waters.

Then, as he who wielded the club turned towards Nanua, she said to those about her,
"Let be, I will deliver myself to the waters, for if I must be sacrificed I would be a better
sacrifice so given". Then she went down to the waters, but as her feet entered she drew
back from the cold dark watery depths before her. But as the one who wielded the club
moved forward, a young man, Sheluat the Scribe, a man of quiet ways, neither
handsome nor strong in body, pushed forward and, taking her by the hand, went down
into the waters with her.

The waters had risen high and men shared the place where they stood with wild beasts
and with sheep and cattle, but now the tumult quietened and the waters drew back.
Seeing this, the people shouted praises to the baleful gods and cried out, "Great are the
mighty gods, and great their holy priests!"

The Chief of Interpreters went sorrowfully apart, hiding himself, for now he was fearful
for his life. When the waters had subsided, he cast his spirit and entered into
communion with the Chastening Spirit, and he said, "Shall I also enter the falling waters
as a sacrifice? For life is now futile, as I am without God or honour". The Great One
answered, "Men see in events the things they wish to see, they can interpret only
according to their understanding. The waters rose to their limitations and did not fall
because of the needless sacrifices. The Powers above may ordain events to chasten
men, but more often such events are challenges and tests. However, divine intervention
is rare indeed".

"These priests follow another, a longer path, but they too condemn wickedness and they
too point the way to Truth, though that way may be indirect and beset with hazards. So
whether they or you reached the ears of the people the odour of wickedness will be
diminished. Divine ends are achieved by diverse means, and the eyes of few men are
opened to see either the means or the end".

"Life is never futile, but your sacrifice would be. No man can lose his God, for He is
always there; but the prestige of a man because of that God such prestige is a worldly
thing of little real value. How do you know whether you have lost or gained? Events of
the moment cannot be weighed in the moment, but can be assessed only by the
judgement of the years. Only eternity knows whether this or that was good or bad, a
gain or loss".

Then the Great One opened the eyes of the Chief of Interpreters, so he saw beyond the
earthly border into the realm beyond. Behold, he saw Anis who had been strong and
handsome on Earth, and now he was something not pleasant to gaze upon. He saw
also the true beauty of Nanua who was now a being of dazzling loveliness, and beside
her was Sheluat who had always loved her secretly, and he was now glowing with youth
and handsome as Helith. The Chief of the Interpreters then understood that evil could
be transmuted into good, and that men had little knowledge of the true nature of things.

Upon the mountain there is now a grove of trees and a temple built in the form of a
circle of white stones, where the people remember the day of their deliverance. But
what they recall and what happened are not the same, nor is the cause in their minds
the true cause. They say, "We are the children of Atuma who saved us". Many who have
gone often to the Temple of Deliverance say they have seen two shades, one radiantly
beautiful and one gloriously handsome, wandering hand in hand through the trees or
sitting in the sunlit glades. All about is now a place of peace.

[Freed Fox]

Thanks Rahkyt, I enjoyed that excerpt... I believe the quotes below are especially wise;


Men see in events the things they wish to see, they can interpret only
according to their understanding.


Divine ends are achieved by diverse means, and the eyes of few men are
opened to see either the means or the end.


The Chief of the Interpreters then understood that evil could
be transmuted into good, and that men had little knowledge of the true nature of things.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Modwiz

With regard to white light. I can see where this comes from, the abuse of light as a protector. Silly new agers! No idea of the four elements and the alchemy principles. The earth and sky, sun and moon. Astrology and timing. The sudious adept can bring these together to bring the good merlin into phase.

I have one caveat regarding white light. in 94 i learned sacred silence meditation which is indian shaman in origin from tom brown s learned method from stalking wolf. In it it uses white light but its intended for healing because it contains all the light rays and its brought in from the feet.

I think where new agers get it wrong is they are trying to introduce the doctorine of a " protector " in christian religion, into metaphysics and call it protection. Silly billies :-)

Back to sacred silence. I have been practicing it as a shaman since but over the years i edited it down and somewhere along the way i lost the white light part of it. Just recently ( 2days ago ) i dug out the original sequence and tried it verbatum. And sure enough this white light came in and you know what, it burned me from toe to head. I mean it was fierce! And yes it was good :-)

Of course i used my usual tinctures to enhance the whole experience but my gods! It was intense. In this white light was intended for healing as it carries the spectrum in it. When a body is relaxed and calm it is then in a state to recieve the eminating frequencies of the light matrix. When you recieve the light it can then re arrange, proportional to your quality of preperation, the body to a nominal reset. Or generally straighten out your kinks. What i found was it also shewed out some hangers on and man there were a few lol cute little critters feeding off my ant man goodness hah

Anyway, i really like this thread and i hope to contribute what i have learned and since we are here when i became a shaman i was told that my next step was to become a merlin and have been dilligently studying ever since. Im happy to say my final initiations happen soon. Well as soon as i get the rest of it right lol

I wish to thank you as in reading this thread one of the pennies fell. It was a joyous occasion! Thank you for your dedication to the craft.

Naniu

[lookbeyond]

Thankyou Rahkyt for the link to the Kolbrin,

Kind Reguards lookbeyond

[modwiz]

Modwiz

With regard to white light. I can see where this comes from, the abuse of light as a protector. Silly new agers! No idea of the four elements and the alchemy principles. The earth and sky, sun and moon. Astrology and timing. The studious adept can bring these together to bring the good merlin into phase.

I have one caveat regarding white light. in 94 i learned sacred silence meditation which is indian shaman in origin from tom brown s learned method from stalking wolf. In it it uses white light but its intended for healing because it contains all the light rays and its brought in from the feet.


I wish to thank you as in reading this thread one of the pennies fell. It was a joyous occasion! Thank you for your dedication to the craft.

Naniu

I enjoyed your post and contribution. My comment about white light is that is usable by almost any entity. For personal use it is great, sending it is where is can get tricky, IMO. The reasons for this get into more complicated considerations, I wish to not dwell on at this point. Perhaps at another time.

The world can always use another Merlin. Lady's of the Lake may have other opinions. LOL

[modwiz]

Time for a little Metaphysics 101. I will be presenting classical Western style subject matter. Something any good Wiccan would know. There are many magical traditions around the world. I have been exposed to a good number and always look to see how any tradition, connects their cosmic dots. The following elements and their associations are ones I have used and felt the power of. They work together like the notes in a musical scale. There is rhyme, rhythm and reason to them in my experience. What I will offer here is not a regurgitation of information.

Basic Elements are Fire, Air, Water and Earth. In the Chinese system there is Fire, Metal(Air), Water Earth and Wood(Ether). I have to mention the Chines system because it is not really different and it is a slightly different way of working with the same energies. Cultures do come into play with these systems.

Western systems do have a concept of Ether, but it is considered an Element of higher vibration (dimension) that the basic four find their source in.
The Metal/Air connection will show in the Element correlation with the Tarot.

Fire is associated with the quality of Spirit. Air with the quality of intellect or mentality. Water with the emotions. Earth with he physical body and tangibility. That would be things that are tangible and can be worked or held in the hands.

Fire is the suit of Wands, Rods, Staves, Spears, Batons, etc. Long objects made of wood. Excellent materials for making a fire with. It is with wood that one can call forth fire and sustain it. The direction is South.

Air, is represented by Swords in classical Tarot decks. There are many types of Tarot decks these days with legitimate alternative 'takes' on things. Legitimate because the energy of the Element is maintained. Here is whee we see the meeting of the Chinese Metal, with Western Air. The keen edge of a good sword is symbolic of the keen edge of a good intellect. Very good at cutting through the crud. The direction is East

Water, is represented by Cups, Grails. The direction is West.

Earth is represented by, Pentacles, Disks. The direction is North.

Just a little more for now. It is my hope others will want to expand on this meager offering. I wanted to get some of this basic information out so that any language or terms I use going forward will have some point of reference. It is also sets up some jumping off points for me or others.

[PurpleLama]

Right now there are four candles burning on the altar on the porch. The colors I am using are not traditional, rather they express my chosen preference. In the East, is purple, Air, in high magic it is associated with the archangel Raphael. In the south is pink, the element of fire and the angel Michael. In the West is black, the element of Water, the angel Gabriel. In the North is white, the element of earth and the angel is Uriel. It's funny to me that Uriel alternately translates, depending on the exact hebrew spelling, as the Lion of God, and the Fire of God, as it's the elemental association of earth. I guess the fire of god is safe in the temple of earth, the temple being the human body.

[PurpleLama]

Scratch that, I remember now, Ariel is the lion of god, and Uriel is the fire.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Modwiz

With regard to white light. I can see where this comes from, the abuse of light as a protector. Silly new agers! No idea of the four elements and the alchemy principles. The earth and sky, sun and moon. Astrology and timing. The studious adept can bring these together to bring the good merlin into phase.

I have one caveat regarding white light. in 94 i learned sacred silence meditation which is indian shaman in origin from tom brown s learned method from stalking wolf. In it it uses white light but its intended for healing because it contains all the light rays and its brought in from the feet.


I wish to thank you as in reading this thread one of the pennies fell. It was a joyous occasion! Thank you for your dedication to the craft.

Naniu

I enjoyed your post and contribution. My comment about white light is that is usable by almost any entity. For personal use it is great, sending it is where is can get tricky, IMO. The reasons for this get into more complicated considerations, I wish to not dwell on at this point. Perhaps at another time.

The world can always use another Merlin. Lady's of the Lake may have other opinions. LOL


This is why i stay clear of rocks, trees and caves. Not nessesarily in that order :-) mmmm ha ha aa h

Thank you, iam enjoying reading this most excellent thread

Carry on

Naniu

[9eagle9]

Lol. Colors don't discriminate. People discriminate based on color. Race relations probably should have taught us that.

White is a corruption of clear. Color spectrums by the very virtue of their existence should have taught people the relationship between energy and filters.

Energy is only a viable as the filters it passes through. Or clear. Water pressure is based on the pipe if runs through, sound through the quality of the speakers.

Energy is usually as not as light as people like to think after its passed through their emotional filters particularly the ones they are not aware of. Typically those who 'send' light without understanding basic and well known material science properties of how are world is composed of tend to bring that sort of misunderstanding and ignorance into metaphysics which is basically about how natural elements frame with each other.

Elements are then transformed into false conditions and passed on as 'unconditional' love...lol.

Typically the energy is neediness, anyone who is driven to do something without attempting to understand what they are doing is doing from a filtered place. Need energy is tentacles --energy vampirism. Energy is then be reduced by one's intentions depending on what emotion they are basing them on.

Unfortunately the emotionally wounded flock into the' new' science of the new age where suddenly light is energy, up is down, negative is evil and then spread this distortion as 'spiritual' teachings. Metaphysical foundations are not about spirituality but how our material selves and our properties court and frame with spirit.

Sending light? One is always in a state of energy transmission.

What that energy is moving through in your emotional and mental body determines the vibrational quality of it (sound/speakers) effect. Everyone knows what a soundwave is transformed into when it passes through tinny, cheap low quality speakers. The entire quality of the wave comes out sounding like **** not a symphony.

In attempting to drag new age into metaphysics people simply make metaphysics senseless and incomprehensible to others depriving people of the opportunity to have a deeper understanding of the natural world and themselves. Which seems rather selfish. Yet this 'new' way of energy management is supposed to be venerated as some sort of virtue. It's like they are attempting to transcend the material world by lying about it's properties.

Fortunately people who enter this turning vices into virtues paradigm are fairly obvious. The 'new' science falls apart at the seams after a cursory examination to see if it holds water (no pun intended) and so do the people who practice it when it doesn't. The flood gates open, the tears , anger and accusations start.



Modwiz

With regard to white light. I can see where this comes from, the abuse of light as a protector. Silly new agers! No idea of the four elements and the alchemy principles. The earth and sky, sun and moon. Astrology and timing. The studious adept can bring these together to bring the good merlin into phase.

I have one caveat regarding white light. in 94 i learned sacred silence meditation which is indian shaman in origin from tom brown s learned method from stalking wolf. In it it uses white light but its intended for healing because it contains all the light rays and its brought in from the feet.


I wish to thank you as in reading this thread one of the pennies fell. It was a joyous occasion! Thank you for your dedication to the craft.

Naniu

I enjoyed your post and contribution. My comment about white light is that is usable by almost any entity. For personal use it is great, sending it is where is can get tricky, IMO. The reasons for this get into more complicated considerations, I wish to not dwell on at this point. Perhaps at another time.

The world can always use another Merlin. Lady's of the Lake may have other opinions. LOL

[PurpleLama]

I like to keep my vices as vices, and virtues as virtues. Ah, the importance of balance....

[ulli]

I like to keep my vices as vices, and virtues as virtues. Ah, the importance of balance....

You'd make a good client for a transactional analyst. Lol.

[CD7]

Time for a little Metaphysics 101. I will be presenting classical Western style subject matter. Something any good Wiccan would know. There are many magical traditions around the world. I have been exposed to a good number and always look to see how any tradition, connects their cosmic dots. The following elements and their associations are ones I have used and felt the power of. They work together like the notes in a musical scale. There is rhyme, rhythm and reason to them in my experience. What I will offer here is not a regurgitation of information.

Basic Elements are Fire, Air, Water and Earth. In the Chinese system there is Fire, Metal(Air), Water Earth and Wood(Ether). I have to mention the Chines system because it is not really different and it is a slightly different way of working with the same energies. Cultures do come into play with these systems.

Western systems do have a concept of Ether, but it is considered an Element of higher vibration (dimension) that the basic four find their source in.
The Metal/Air connection will show in the Element correlation with the Tarot.

Fire is associated with the quality of Spirit. Air with the quality of intellect or mentality. Water with the emotions. Earth with he physical body and tangibility. That would be things that are tangible and can be worked or held in the hands.

Fire is the suit of Wands, Rods, Staves, Spears, Batons, etc. Long objects made of wood. Excellent materials for making a fire with. It is with wood that one can call forth fire and sustain it. The direction is South.

Air, is represented by Swords in classical Tarot decks. There are many types of Tarot decks these days with legitimate alternative 'takes' on things. Legitimate because the energy of the Element is maintained. Here is whee we see the meeting of the Chinese Metal, with Western Air. The keen edge of a good sword is symbolic of the keen edge of a good intellect. Very good at cutting through the crud. The direction is East

Water, is represented by Cups, Grails. The direction is West.

Earth is represented by, Pentacles, Disks. The direction is North.

Just a little more for now. It is my hope others will want to expand on this meager offering. I wanted to get some of this basic information out so that any language or terms I use going forward will have some point of reference. It is also sets up some jumping off points for me or others.


Questions come to mind....there's alot of posts seeming to go in various directions here...(and i know this is wht threads do...somewht have a life of their own as they wind into different directions) Attempting to get the gist of it all...

So in this post it seems tht ur working with earth elements...could u expand on this----wht is it tht u do? (with elements, air water fire earth)...how do u do it? Why do u do it?

[PurpleLama]

To this one, elements may be seen as different aspects of the universal energy, Light. Not as in Luv n Lite, but as in the Primoridal Light, the nature of which may be seen through a vast array of filters, each showing something of difference. Depending on the work being done, different elements or combinations thereof, may be called upon. For instance, should the working be of a transformative nature, fire is used, should healing be sought, then water, for protection, earth. These are only the most general of examples.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

A magician uses knowledge combined with intuition to reach the right element or combination of elements, for the work being done.

[CD7]

To this one, elements may be seen as different aspects of the universal energy, Light. Not as in Luv n Lite, but as in the Primoridal Light, the nature of which may be seen through a vast array of filters, each showing something of difference. Depending on the work being done, different elements or combinations thereof, may be called upon. For instance, should the working be of a transformative nature, fire is used, should healing be sought, then water, for protection, earth. These are only the most general of examples.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Fire is the suit of Wands, Rods, Staves, Spears, Batons, etc.

A magician uses knowledge combined with intuition to reach the right element or combination of elements, for the work being done.


Hummmm very interesting....It seems one's own body could b used as a vessel for all elements...earth air fire water----the heart being a KEY pivotal element in the process

Being able to practice or even being taught such things..i could see the importance of one being able to conjure up more CONSTRUCTIVE scenarios verses destruction----one's intent very important

Its also interesting tht fire is associated with wands, batons, spears..etc to be associated with a transformative nature...for a few years ALL i focused on was the world/earth being changed transformed for the benefit of all species--eventually a vision of an ENORMOUS being spinning BATONS extremely fast and in all geometric spins one can think of materialized in my vision---eventually the ONE being became Three...


Definitely interesting topics here...interested to see where it winds up

[PurpleLama]

I would put forth, that the heart is no more key or pivotal than any other energy center. From the heart comes the condition of consciousness that leans toward compassion, but this aspect is not more or less vital in a balanced operation. For example, compassion is useless without will, for nothing could be acted upon without such impetus. Without the aspect of creative impulse, underlying will, the inspiration may never be reached. Again, a general statement.

[modwiz]

I would put forth, that the heart is no more key or pivotal than any other energy center. From the heart comes the condition of consciousness that leans toward compassion, but this aspect is not more or less vital in a balanced operation. For example, compassion is useless without will, for nothing could be acted upon without such impetus. Without the aspect of creative impulse, underlying will, the inspiration may never be reached. Again, a general statement.

It is worth noting that the heart energy is associated with Green,(Pink and Gold too) a combination color of Blue, the Will/throat chakra and Yellow, the Lower Intellect/solar plexus chakra. The 3rd chakra is also very involved with the emotional body. So, the importance of having a balanced 3rd chakra, with the proper interplay of the emotional/mental bodies to interact with the right use of Will/Blue to produce the Heart function that can be so powerful when the alignments synchronize.

I am enjoying your participation here. Very helpful.

[CD7]

Without the aspect of creative impulse, underlying will, the inspiration may never be reached. Again, a general statement.


Isnt the heart the spark tht brings forth the creativity? To me it is the part tht starts the fire...the key tht starts the engine

When u say balanced operation...can u give an example? How would u go about creating a balanced operation?

[PurpleLama]

Nope, the fire comes from "down below".

Each energy center is powered by that which rises from beneath, so the power of the heart proceeds from the connection to the earth, the creative/generative center, through the center of self awareness/social consciousness, before becoming coherent within the center of compassion.

As an aside, I see will rising from the solar plexus/self awareness. The yellow is the lower form of blue, being honor and The Word. I see the colors/chakras as alternating masculine and feminine characteristics, with red-yellow-blue being masculine and orange-green-indigo being feminine, and violet being a balance.

[CD7]

I would put forth, that the heart is no more key or pivotal than any other energy center. From the heart comes the condition of consciousness that leans toward compassion, but this aspect is not more or less vital in a balanced operation. For example, compassion is useless without will, for nothing could be acted upon without such impetus. Without the aspect of creative impulse, underlying will, the inspiration may never be reached. Again, a general statement.

It is worth noting that the heart energy is associated with Green,(Pink and Gold too) a combination color of Blue, the Will/throat chakra and Yellow, the Lower Intellect/solar plexus chakra. The 3rd chakra is also very involved with the emotional body. So, the importance of having a balanced 3rd chakra, with the proper interplay of the emotional/mental bodies to interact with the right use of Will/Blue to produce the Heart function that can be so powerful when the alignments synchronize.

I am enjoying your participation here. Very helpful.


Yes i think wht u have stated was more along the lines of wht i was trying to say as far as the heart having a key role---semantics get in the way of understanding

[modwiz]

I would put forth, that the heart is no more key or pivotal than any other energy center. From the heart comes the condition of consciousness that leans toward compassion, but this aspect is not more or less vital in a balanced operation. For example, compassion is useless without will, for nothing could be acted upon without such impetus. Without the aspect of creative impulse, underlying will, the inspiration may never be reached. Again, a general statement.

It is worth noting that the heart energy is associated with Green,(Pink and Gold too) a combination color of Blue, the Will/throat chakra and Yellow, the Lower Intellect/solar plexus chakra. The 3rd chakra is also very involved with the emotional body. So, the importance of having a balanced 3rd chakra, with the proper interplay of the emotional/mental bodies to interact with the right use of Will/Blue to produce the Heart function that can be so powerful when the alignments synchronize.

I am enjoying your participation here. Very helpful.


Yes i think wht u have stated was more along the lines of wht i was trying to say as far as the heart having a key role---semantics get in the way of understanding

Oh those pesky semantics.

[CD7]

Nope, the fire comes from "down below".


LOL!! yup theres fire there too! But tht fire did not react for me in the experiences i was referring...ive felt my heart beating so fast and pulsing through me tht it was the "source" of whtever ud call it going through me

[modwiz]

Without the aspect of creative impulse, underlying will, the inspiration may never be reached. Again, a general statement.


Isnt the heart the spark tht brings forth the creativity? To me it is the part tht starts the fire...the key tht starts the engine

When u say balanced operation...can u give an example? How would u go about creating a balanced operation?

As PL states. The Fire/Red is the emerging energy in the 1st chakra. That is where we poke into this physical existence. This is the first stance. It builds from there.

[PurpleLama]

Haha! I "pulled a Carmody", and edited my above post.

[CD7]

As PL states. The Fire/Red is the emerging energy in the 1st chakra. That is where we poke into this physical existence. This is the first stance. It builds from there.


Where is this information coming from? Legends down the way, books, groups, experience, wicca??

[modwiz]

As PL states. The Fire/Red is the emerging energy in the 1st chakra. That is where we poke into this physical existence. This is the first stance. It builds from there.


Where is this information coming from? Legends down the way, books, groups, experience, wicca??

All of the above could apply.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Haha! I "pulled a Carmody", and edited my above post.

Glad I don't need to pull my thanks from it. :p Good editing. :thumb:

[AwakeInADream]

Scratch that, I remember now, Ariel is the lion of god, and Uriel is the fire.

LOL. I almost asked you for the alternative spelling for Uriel then, but then of course, the great Kabbalist Isaac Luria was know as 'The Ari' or 'The Lion'.

I wonder would a magnetic pole reversal on Earth, mean that Magicians would have to change directions when they work?
Like, is the physical/measurable force of magnetism important in magical work?

[modwiz]

Scratch that, I remember now, Ariel is the lion of god, and Uriel is the fire.

LOL. I almost asked you for the alternative spelling for Uriel then, but then of course, the great Kabbalist Isaac Luria was know as 'The Ari' or 'The Lion'.

I wonder would a magnetic pole reversal on Earth, mean that Magicians would have to change directions when they work?
Like, is the physical/measurable force of magnetism important in magical work?

I will turn my mind to that if it becomes necessary. In the meantime, it's business as usual.
The magician is most important in magical work. One can sail against the wind and tide, except in extreme circumstances. However, is not the smart way. The directions are useful in auguries. The symbols allow messages to be sent by Nature. The magnetism of the directions has never been a consideration of mine.

[9eagle9]

Earth magnetically yes which shifts in urps and burps. There's magnetic of the body, how external magnetic forces influence the internal. If the poles were to shift magnetically and it came from the west we'd most certainly have to change direction with it. Or the east....or wherever. North would have a whole new meaning and so would the direction it eventually ended up stationing itself at. Relatively speaking the strongest magnetic tides are in the north given one's relative location to the fixed physical north. If that field were to seriously re-locate I'd imagine we'd have to shift along with it. Observance of magnetic tides. If the sun started rising in the west same thing.

If one has localized magnetic hotspots one notices they ebb and wane throughout the seasons.

[Gemini]

Based on what Rahkyt and Modwiz wrote about the signs and basic elements, I have to say Air describes my character pretty well. Although it's very simplified as such. I wonder how well it works with describing others though.

Are you an Air Sign by any chance, Modwiz?

I would guess 9eagle9 is Fire. Apart from being very spiritual, at least you have a fiery nature, by my observation, and you have that flame icon in your signature. :p

That's just me having a little fun trying to be clever.

BTW, thanks for this fascinating thread as I have no earlier understanding of these subjects. I'm looking forward to learning more!



Cancer, Scorpio and Pisces, Water Signs, are obviously the folks who are going to represent the extremities of its expression in the world, being ruled by their emotional centers. Because the Earth Signs, Capricorn, Taurus and Virgo, get along so well with the Water Signs, and are also extremely emotional, they have many of the same issues. The Air Signs, Libra, Aquarius and Gemini are head-ruled, more detached, as are the Fire Signs, Aries, Leo and Sagittarius.


Fire is associated with the quality of Spirit. Air with the quality of intellect or mentality. Water with the emotions. Earth with he physical body and tangibility. That would be things that are tangible and can be worked or held in the hands.

[write4change]

I need to come back and read this thread. thanks for posting it.

[9eagle9]

Good shot.

Fire and Water. A cusp baby. I'm fortunate to have a balanced chart, but those are my essential elements. Fire and Water makes up for 'can't remember ****'. Some few notice my water, but most overlook it because they think fire means anger so its a convenient label for 'fire'.

Its mostly constant state of face palm.

I couldn't find a face palm flame. :doh:

[modwiz]

Based on what Rahkyt and Modwiz wrote about the signs and basic elements, I have to say Air describes my character pretty well. Although it's very simplified as such. I wonder how well it works with describing others though.

Are you an Air Sign by any chance, Modwiz?

I would guess 9eagle9 is Fire. Apart from being very spiritual, at least you have a fiery nature, by my observation, and you have that flame icon in your signature. :p

That's just me having a little fun trying to be clever.

BTW, thanks for this fascinating thread as I have no earlier understanding of these subjects. I'm looking forward to learning more!



Cancer, Scorpio and Pisces, Water Signs, are obviously the folks who are going to represent the extremities of its expression in the world, being ruled by their emotional centers. Because the Earth Signs, Capricorn, Taurus and Virgo, get along so well with the Water Signs, and are also extremely emotional, they have many of the same issues. The Air Signs, Libra, Aquarius and Gemini are head-ruled, more detached, as are the Fire Signs, Aries, Leo and Sagittarius.


Fire is associated with the quality of Spirit. Air with the quality of intellect or mentality. Water with the emotions. Earth with he physical body and tangibility. That would be things that are tangible and can be worked or held in the hands.

Good going Gemini. I am an Air Sign, Aquarius. My Moon is in Gemini as well. My Scorpio ascendant can make me intense as well as 'cryptic' at times.

9eagle has already answered you.

[Ultima Thule]

I don´t know whether this is the place to ask about your opinions on the following - but I´ll just go on and ask it anyway ;)

Considering astrological charts, do you reckon that the notion I read somewhere is somewhat true: the astrological chart at the moment of previous incarnation is identical(or close to anyway) to the one on the time of birth into the next incarnation - thus carrying something essential of that individuated point of view/person through the incarnations?

This I started to wonder, as we have previously talked about the energetic bodies carrying signatures of past experiences etc. Is there a common theme with astrology?

UT

[PurpleLama]

Successive incarnations should carry strong astrological correlations. However, that may mostly be applied to on who has not taken up some form of conscious evolution. One has the potential to learn, evolve, to beat the game, so to speak, in which case one may form a new template with different influences to learn by, or overcome, as the case may be.

[PurpleLama]

Yep, that scorpio ascendant 'splains a lot. ;)

[modwiz]

I don´t know whether this is the place to ask about your opinions on the following - but I´ll just go on and ask it anyway ;)

Considering astrological charts, do you reckon that the notion I read somewhere is somewhat true: the astrological chart at the moment of previous incarnation is identical(or close to anyway) to the one on the time of birth into the next incarnation - thus carrying something essential of that individuated point of view/person through the incarnations?

This I started to wonder, as we have previously talked about the energetic bodies carrying signatures of past experiences etc. Is there a common theme with astrology?

UT

I think this is a good place to ask, since it is not about interpreting a chart. I think the notion of identicality is not one I resonate with. I do believe they are connected, for sure, to ensure and continuity and coherence. I always tend to issue a disclaimer when discussing "past" lives because of my understanding of simultaneous time, in the bigger picture. At the core of all of the incarnations is the eternal Self, outside of time 'working' all of these lives as extensions into this reality/dimension.

I think the overall concept of a continuum is valid and true, and astrology is one of the tools for marking the separate but connected incarnations.

[9eagle9]

An astrological chart will never be identical because the constellations are always in movement. What you've built on previously before will remain there though.

Simply learning astrology is not sufficient to make it serviceable. a chart is a chart and is fairly straightforward. Having a basic understanding of how natural elements court with each other, mythology, archetypes, symbology, and numbers would help one get a multi layered 360 view of their chart. Leaving the chart out of it entirely and understanding the nature of planetary 'rulers' or tides is helpful.

We have a core persona we carry with us wherever we exist. But you can ferret out what is other life influence, what has built you to the point of birth and what elements within will either inhibit, challenge or support your potentials by using a companion discipline. You can then see what specifically could be what some called karmic events. What has such intensity its hindering one's personal growth, and what has such power that it may overcome all qualifiers and simply express itself.

Astrology was not designed to be used in a singular sense. It's a template or a foundation that other tools can be applied for specifics.

[9eagle9]

This I started to wonder, as we have previously talked about the energetic bodies carrying signatures of past experiences etc. Is there a common theme with astrology?

Astrology indicates past experiences in a sort of generalized way, you can get a general archetypical scenario from astrology. Other disciplines will paint a picture of it. If its in there, and you have not ferreted it out in the life time in question it is likely playing out in this life time. Then you can get the specifics with some self explorations. Patterns that keep coming up in people's lives.

Personal growth building in other life experiences are one's strengths or potential for strengths in this life time, that will emerge on their own once the weaknesses are ferreted out.

Those will resonate in our emotional energy, they have a vibe, wound resonance.

[Ultima Thule]

Thanks for the answers.

One could question what is the basis for astrology, why would the planets have an effect on the persona? For me it makes more sense that for a "persona" or the certain energetics of a soul to incarnate, it cannot do it in an arbitrary manner, but will have to find a matching moment, where as much as possible of what he/she is, can be translated into the earthly habitat, allowed by the energy at large of the moment. Not unlike playing Sims or some other computer game, where you choose the body, hair, eyes etc. of your character to match your own "live"-looks, but you never get it exactly, just as close as possible.

UT

[Ultima Thule]

:bump:
Aww, cmon!
I wanna hear more about the EMOTIONAL body!!! I wan´t to!
Did I mention, that I neeeeeeeeed to hear more!

UT

[modwiz]

The real important piece of knowledge about the Emotional body is how it works in tandem with the Intellectual or Mental body. I will be abbreviating these as Eb and Mb henceforth. The Mb provides a structure, hopefully LOL, for the Eb to fill. The Eb is like water and will get all over the place unless managed by a containment of some sort. SO let me put in a good word for the Eb. Like water it loosens things up and is required for life as we know it. Without the Eb we would be cold, without feeling and rigid. These last three qualities are ones of the Mb. The rigidness of the Mb does allow for a containement field for the Eb. The watery nature of the Eb influences the Mb to be more supple. I hope the poetry here is both apparent and helpful.

So these two subtle bodies work in a Yin/Yang relationship, with the Mb providing the pattern (pater/Yang) for the Yin to fill. It is here that the groundwork for a concept of the interplay and dynamics of these two subtle bodies is set up. Without the Mb setting "boundaries" for the Eb is is all over the place and things get messy and sloppy. Almost any conversation will demonstrate this principal because few conversations are intellectual in nature. Most information people carry around with them was not arrived at by working anything out. People are walking around with heads full of programming. Programming aimed at the Eb. Most opinions are ideas others presented and then we agreed with them and then call them ours. When discussions occur where differences of "opinion" arise things get stupid quickly because the Mb was usually not around when the "opinion" was programmed in. The reasonings used in our debates are usually talking points that were presented by the programmer, (TV talking head, magazine/internet article writer) and have no depth to them, only emotional juice. No work was put into the acquisition of these opinions, by us, other than whatever was required to operate the medium used. This is a generality of how most of the population operates. Everyone has an opinion that isn't really theirs because no mental effort was exerted. In other words, no opinion was "formed". No intellectual construct occurred for the Eb to fill. The Eb was hijacked by a programmer.

TV, shuts down the Mb. It is hard to think and listen at the same time because thinking requires one to pay attention, "listen" to ones own thoughts. TV plays the part of the Mb and the Eb does what it does. It fills these constructs with feelings. We end up with our feeling in the constructs of others. Constructs, more often than not, composed of nonsense, lies and agendas.

As mentioned earlier, mental constructs are inherently lifeless until filled with "feeling". So you see how important it is for "OUR" own, autonomous and sovereign intellects to construct/form the ideas that our feelings will inhabit. When opinions are formed in this fashion, real discussion and debate can occur. To get into a heated discussion with other peoples opinions is not productive. It is a fake conversation where only Eb's get a workout and plenty of loosh gets produced, which is a huge part of the programming. The other part is Matrix enforcing of the prison bars and guards. Both the bars and guards are us and our programmed selves acting on and from the programming.

We now see that the crux of proper Eb management is tied into proper Mb engagement. Start having sovereign ideas and watch a sovereign life appear. Emotions are the magnetism of creation. If you want to have a life that is truly yours, you will have to constuct one with a functioning Mb creating its own ideas and then having the Eb fill it with feeling that applies to that idea. If it feels bad, it might be. One must look at the construct as one would do building anything. Poor structure leads to problems and the Eb will often inform one of this.

As Socrates said, "The unexamined life is not worth living."

[PurpleLama]

At eighteen years I discovered Robert A. Wilson, and his concept of circuits, the higher being the circuit of the programmer. Such information inspired the disentanglement of my own circuitry, and the re-assembly thereof, in a more logical seeming arrangement. Every few years it's been taken apart and put back together, and I cannot overstate the value, the richness, I've experienced, knowing and changing my own "mind". I've come to see similar concepts to those R. Wilson used within various other spiritual/magical teaching, although my own perspective seems to have become more abstract in dealing with the mental constructs, the idea of circuits as he presented holds a special place in my heart. For anyone interested, it's is in the book Prometheus Rising, although I'd put it together from his various other writings before I encountered that book. I have found that the perspective he promoted leads to a certain detachment from the process that's ever helpful during such endeavors.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rawilsonfans.com%2Fdownloads%2Fprometheus.pdf&ei=6Wz5UIWEF5CQ8wSm14C4CQ&usg=AFQjCNFQ_qSaqmqJBDHG1yTopd-PmhNgaA&bvm=bv.41248874,d.eWU

[Ultima Thule]

How do you see emotional baggage or traumas accumulating in relation to emotional body?

UT

[9eagle9]

One sees it all the time although one might not be aware of what one is observing.

People until they clear out the emotional body conduct their behaviors under a set pattern of predictable behavior mostly exhibited by creating situations that really aren't in existence, reactionary states, and basically doing the same thing over and over again expecting that something will change.



How do you see emotional baggage or traumas accumulating in relation to emotional body?

UT

[modwiz]

How do you see emotional baggage or traumas accumulating in relation to emotional body?

UT

I see them accumulating IN the emotional body. I do like the concept of the pain body that Eckhart Tolle uses, since the traumas will accumulate around the black hole of our own self condemnation and lack of self acceptance. This hole, this unfilled part of ourselves will try and stick anything in there to plug it up/fill it in. The saying misery loves company applies to the plethora of wounds and hurts we accumulate. There is a common lower vibration/disharmonic and all things seek their level or place.

This gets us back to the need for the Mental body (Mb) to work in concert with the Eb. I will use the character of Spock, from the Star Trek series to demonstrate this point. Doctor McCoy says something emotional. It is his role to play. Spock sees the logical/mental side of things without the emotional context. McCoy is appalled and goes on to call Spock an unfeeling, green-blooded machine whose mother was a hamster and whose father stank of elderberries. Spock raises one eyebrow and calmly reminds the Dr. that his mother was a human and his father detested elderberries and that it would be illogical to state that he stank of them. Furthermore his green blood was just a natural component of his Vulcan physiology and had little to do with his removing emotional components from his calculations. He goes on to remind McCoy, that the Vulcans are a deeply passionate people who found that they needed to control their emotions to evolve beyond barbarism. What he would not do is have his feelings hurt by the Doctors words. There would be no residual trauma to store in a pain body.

It is worth noting two distinct types of wounds carried in the pain body. The pain we feel from what other have said/done to us and the pain we feel from what we have said/done to others. For someone like myself, the latter is more challenging. I believe the latter is what challenges most people, and is often at the core of their own self worth issues. This sets up a looping effect where the pain from others is seen as justified for the pain we caused others. This churning field of pain will cause illness and disease. It is most likely the seed of all chronic illness and disease. Forgiveness is one of the most powerful medicines for these illnesses of the spirit. Like any remedy, use and apply wisely. Like most natural remedies, there are only a few cautions, but there are some. Forgiving oneself clears the way to forgive others. It will allow one to feel deserving to be free of inner torments. The pains of holding on to grudges will also become apparent.

[meeradas]

_Intermission_

Happy Birthday, man.

[modwiz]

_Intermission_

Happy Birthday, man.

Thanks. For some reason I don't rate front page recognition. I think my pain body needs to prepare itself for incoming....LOL. Simonm and Amystic3434 are featured. Viral Spiral is another missing from the front page. We have already exchanged pleasantries.

[Beren]

One sees it all the time although one might not be aware of what one is observing.

People until they clear out the emotional body conduct their behaviors under a set pattern of predictable behavior mostly exhibited by creating situations that really aren't in existence, reactionary states, and basically doing the same thing over and over again expecting that something will change.



How do you see emotional baggage or traumas accumulating in relation to emotional body?

UT

"Think before you flame " was an excellent advice for many, if not all.

[PurpleLama]

How do you see emotional baggage or traumas accumulating in relation to emotional body?

UT

I see wrong thoughts misleading the emotive aspect which in turn presses into the physical over time, hence mental/emotional imbalances often leading into very physical illnesses. This underlies the old, Physician Heal Thyself, for without health one can not heal.

[Carmody]

At eighteen years I discovered Robert A. Wilson, and his concept of circuits, the higher being the circuit of the programmer. Such information inspired the disentanglement of my own circuitry, and the re-assembly thereof, in a more logical seeming arrangement. Every few years it's been taken apart and put back together, and I cannot overstate the value, the richness, I've experienced, knowing and changing my own "mind". I've come to see similar concepts to those R. Wilson used within various other spiritual/magical teaching, although my own perspective seems to have become more abstract in dealing with the mental constructs, the idea of circuits as he presented holds a special place in my heart. For anyone interested, it's is in the book Prometheus Rising, although I'd put it together from his various other writings before I encountered that book. I have found that the perspective he promoted leads to a certain detachment from the process that's ever helpful during such endeavors.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rawilsonfans.com%2Fdownloads%2Fprometheus.pdf&ei=6Wz5UIWEF5CQ8wSm14C4CQ&usg=AFQjCNFQ_qSaqmqJBDHG1yTopd-PmhNgaA&bvm=bv.41248874,d.eWU

Yes, I did my first higher self originated and consciously remembered and connected 're-wire' at age 18, as well. It's called, to some extent, the 'nodal return', that the north and south node of the dragon or moon's position in relation to the earth...reaches the exact same degree/angle as it did at your birth. That the doorway energies (vibrational note- or expanded window with the correct vectoral polarizations) are the same as the moment of birth.

Energetic spiral in, energetic spiral out, in time and dimension, due to the moon's motion around the earth, which is an externally applied pressure, due to the earth and moon actually being pressure and flow disturbances in a highly pressurized multi-dimensional/multi-temporal field.

[Ultima Thule]

I hope Modwiz won´t mind usage of his thread, I however thought that my question might be fitting to be asked here - it´s about the science of spirituality imo.

As my mind was wondering this morning, it came up with the idea or revelation that propably humans as a species was not originally equipped with a re-incarnating soul, but instead soul was of later addition. I would furthermore think that let´s say chimpanzees propably don´t yet have a soul, but might at one point be upgraded to having one? These are just my wild thoughts, so I wellcome you who know or have insight regarding this to answer the following questions:

a. am I right in assuming that we as a species didn´t originally come out of the factory equipped with a soul?
b. am I right in assuming that at some point we got upgraded to be soul-carriers?
c. if I am right, who did the upgrade? God, ETs, progenitors(whoever they are), etc..
d. when was the upgrade done?
e. could the upgrade of the soul be the very thing we are still trying to come up to terms with? i.e. Intellect/emotion of the biological body(perhaps even termed as ego?) vs intellect/emotion of the soul(wisdom/uncoscious etc.)

I am looking forward to hearing something about this, I am absolutely sure that there are individuals that have clear knowledge of these matters. I know there have been discussions regarding progenitors etc. in here, but for some reason I´m interested (at least at first) in these simple questions.
Simple to ask, possibly not simple to answer...

UT

[Shin'Ar]

As my mind was wondering this morning, it came up with the idea or revelation that propably humans as a species was not originally equipped with a re-incarnating soul, but instead soul was of later addition. I would furthermore think that let´s say chimpanzees propably don´t yet have a soul, but might at one point be upgraded to having one?

a. am I right in assuming that we as a species didn´t originally come out of the factory equipped with a soul?
b. am I right in assuming that at some point we got upgraded to be soul-carriers?
c. if I am right, who did the upgrade? God, ETs, progenitors(whoever they are), etc..
d. when was the upgrade done?
e. could the upgrade of the soul be the very thing we are still trying to come up to terms with? i.e. Intellect/emotion of the biological body(perhaps even termed as ego?) vs intellect/emotion of the soul(wisdom/uncoscious etc.)






Hey there UT,

This of course just my two cents worth,

As always individual definition and interpretation is key here. To speak on such things there is a need to for some consensus on exactly what we mean by 'soul'. Because this is the topic which has been struggled over for countless eons.

It sounds like what you are referring to is more 'awareness' than what most people would define as 'soul'.

Most people define soul as their own 'spiritual identity'; the me within the form, if you will, or the ghost in the attic. Such thinking continues well into higher stages of enlightenment and manifests as various philosophies and speculations.

But at some point a person begins to realize that there is something deeper and more universal than their own self identity, which is somehow attached to that which they had always thought to be soul. And this is where an awareness of The One Consciousness and The All begins to increase, and the old ways of thinking as an individual identity begin to diminish.

In my opinion, I like to think of the soul as the actual fire within our forms that establishes this awareness and ability to interact with creation. This has nothing to do with individual identity, as that is temporary, and reincarnating in many various identities throughout the existence of the soul/fire.

This tweaking or unnatural upgrade that you speak of commonly points to what many are recently discovering with regards to the early 'gods' of human remembrance. There are many tales and legends referring to them and it is far more likely that they were beings of a higher state of evolution than most humans.

But what was upgraded was not the soul, but rather the genetics of the forms we use.

What was upgraded with regard to knowledge and intelligence was not done through genetic tweaking but was simply the consequence of the information that was brought to us by these higher beings, and our capability to store that data via a larger brain capacity. But, when someone goes to the library and reads and absorbs information offered there, it is not wisdom they acquire but simply massive amounts of data which they store in that brain capacity.

Wisdom is not acquired by the consumption of vast amounts of data. It is acquired through the experienced ability to discern that information according to one's prior experiences, which can then assist in a balancing of that information with the many other sources and offerings they have gathered through their long experience as a soul/fire, in a way beneficial to the furthering of their evolutionary development.

Of course I could be proven wrong at any time and would welcome that.

But to this point in my understanding, which seems based more on unraveling memories and intuitive processing, than on the interpretation of the many opinions and teachings offered by the usual aspects of human society. Which brings me to responding to your final question here,

"e. could the upgrade of the soul be the very thing we are still trying to come up to terms with? i.e. Intellect/emotion of the biological body(perhaps even termed as ego?) vs intellect/emotion of the soul(wisdom/uncoscious etc.)"

The very fact that you are able to discern between the ego and the soul by differentiating between the physical and the spiritual, reveals the true nature of this very upgrading of which you inquire. An upgrading/evolution which cannot be altered by outside interferences. It is beyond genetics. It is beyond destruction. It is however infected and influenced by our environment and subjection.

To answer your question, yes this upgrade is the thing which we effort to come to terms with. But not as some genetic manipulation, rather as the Divine Design by which it evolves naturally. In short, that which we are coming to terms with is our own natural evolving consciousness. The many catalysts which influence that development, are both biological and spiritual, but nothing can cause a cessation of that Process of Being. There are natural laws involved which have been established by The Source of The All which cannot be superseded or evaded, just as we cannot defy gravity or death of temporary form.

There is much that you are coming into an awareness of through this amazing time of mass communication, and if you can manage to always intercede all of that information with intuitive wisdom already established in your soul/fire, field of consciousness, not infringed upon by exterior influences, you will gain in understanding much more harmoniously than if led by the opinions of others via religion or commentary. Use the information, which is relentless and vastly variable, as a spring board to meeting your true 'self', the field of consciousness that you truly are, and then use the information stored there to discern the many fruits which you harvest here.

Come to the naturally irrigated fields of truth as a child, free of conclusions and biased opinion, and gather the harvest as you sample each fruit and vegetable to discern according to your own taste; not so that you can self satisfy and create further self delusions, but so that you can be sure that what you are placing in your basket is not just the tastes offered by others.

Self delusion and self satisfaction is the path to becoming free of that self imprisonment of the true self/soul. But when we allow the delusions of others to be our own imprisonment, then who's path are we really following?

Intuition, the development of spiritual awareness, must be an individual path and that is the difference between the right hand and left hand paths. When one leaves the right hand paths of authority and direction, to embark on the left hand path of the fool/child, they open that doorway/portal to the Inbetween; the reality between the ego and the soul. And that is the doorway to Connection, rather than the doorways which lead to further inclinations of the physical and metaphysical imbalances of extremes of experiencing self as either human or God.

It is always about balance and gathering the fruit found in the Inbetween. To either side of that balance we tend to consider things like a soul being manipulated by ETs, or that we are God ourselves. But such extremes are simply imbalance at opposite ends.

There is much talk about Dragon Blood and how those are of some higher ability to understand truth. That is no different than the claims that the professors of Harvard are far wiser than most other humans, or that a person with a large brain capacity would be wiser than one of smaller capacity.

It should be easily observed within our own family structures, that genetics has nothing to do with wisdom and higher states of discerning.

Just go to any of the Dragon Blood associated sites on the internet and you will see exactly the type of variation of which I speak. There's alot of talk about royal heritage and enhanced intellects, and little about evolving consciousness and wisdom.

[PurpleLama]

The soul/psyche is a necessary element of the incarnaton of spirit into flesh. I will speakt to this at length when I am able, but I will say for now, although in modern times there may be seen much confusion and speculation aroung the subject of the soul, there is an actual truth to be seen, it's not given to individual interpretation and definition. One may choose to disagree with truth, this makes it no more or less true. We may look into the inner planes and see different things, according to the filters of individual consciousness, but those who have done the work to clear the filters will tend to see more and more the same thing. It may be seen that there have been attempts to manipulate our understanding of these things, but this aspect if what we call soul is a sovreign thing, one may manipulate their own connection to creator, but without our agreement arising from the created confusion and suppressed knowledge and understanding of what we truly are, it is not something that is readily tampered with.

[CdnSirian]

Another idea about the soul is the Oversoul - Higher Self (or as a friend of mine loves to say "Higher Elf"). Say for instance that 7B on this planet were indeed run by about 300,000 Oversouls - running their quota of bodies.

As individuals evolved personally could they share this with the others run by their Oversoul? Could this, especially as one gains awareness and control/balance of their EB and MB be sensed/transmitted to their super-significant others?

And also factoring in the idea of parallel rather than linear "past" lives (which means you have future lives too) - would this then not create a Quantum Leap in consciousness?

Then we are about to do a Leap Frog over the heads of those who aren't like us in intent? This could be seen as jumping timelines yet it is a highly intricate dance. It seems we're getting a lot of rehearsals right now and we may do a spectacular job.

(There is a balance in being open to such evolutionary influence, yet keeping the riff-raff out. We have to be our own Doorman and Security).

I caught up to this thread on p.9 today. I want to thank 9E9 for her input on it, and for originally bringing up the topic of the EB on another thread.

[Linda Joy Crutcher]

Greetings, Bredren. I was so surprised to see this topic that I had to go to your profile to check and see when the last time you started a topic was.

It was in March of 2012. You start so few topics that when you do, I find it important to pay attention.

This topic is a direct assault against relativism. Against the "New Age Mumbo-Jumbo". Against holism and perhaps also synthesis, which has the word synthetic hidden in it, apropos of artificial, not natural or genuine, contrived.

I have posted consistently regarding the relativity of perception, the need to understand all points of view and allow for them and the perceived underlying unity of religious and spiritual traditions to the extent that they all encompass some fundamental reality, attempt to explain it and provide a pathway forward for those within those traditions, bounded tightly by their cultural parameters which blinker them, create separation and encourage fear-based thinking and being. A perfect cover for you-know-who to divide and conquer, and through so doing, reinforce the culture of pyramidal control. I have found it necessary to write on this topic in particular, here, in order to express the reality that we share more in common than we do apart.

With that said, when it comes down to it, metaphysics is indeed hard work. There was a reason a lot of the information that we possess today was secret. And it was not all because the PTB were in charge and they wanted to keep the truth from the masses. It was because most people were not ready for it. It was because it was and is dangerous. It was because metaphysics was and is the key to true sovereignty and re-integration with the whole.

For those who have an intellectual understanding of metaphysics as some abstract collection of old sayings and directives, of pithy one-liners and amorphous pie-in-the-sky meanderings, spit out by dissipative, meditating lotus-eaters, their characterization of it as such is indicative of the truly staggering and mind-blowing nature of the topic. And it is also indicative of the truth that they themselves have not experienced these deeper waters personally and determined for themselves the truth of the matter, or the fundamental Nowness of their submersion within an illusory format of being that only barely indicates the depth and nature of that which lies beneath.

Words are indeed spells. Sound is power. Vibration is energy in movement. These are fundamental realities of our existence. To cast the power of enunciation of the knowledge of etymology to the 4 winds as if they were no more than gaseous emanations of the bowels and intestines is to disempower self and the inherent power of creation in favor of intellectual masturbation.

Because I want to see where you are going with this, and participate further with greater knowledge of the terrain you're laying out, I will sit back now and eat popcorn for a while. I eagerly await what comes next.

I am again entranced by your words; not to mention that I agree with you completely. Thank you for taking the time to say what I couldn't.

[PurpleLama]

thanks for the bump, LJC.

Mark's (Rahkyt) words, which you quoted above, are erudite as always, and contain much truth, as always. The vibrations and combinations thereof, of the words we make, do indeed imprint the reality we experience.

As a more general statement, if it is agreement with the forum staff, I would like to take over as OP of this thread, this thread has been on my mind as of late, and I'd like to see it continue in the spirit with which it was begun.

[Lisab]

Weirdly (or not so!) this thread has been on my mind too. Good idea Reilly

[Linda Joy Crutcher]

Ah, I have but a simple mind and wonder why so much emphasis is placed on words that really make no difference to anyone except the people who gravitate to them.

Metaphysics or New Age; Enlightenment or Awareness; God or Energy. Isn't it logical that each person accepts the word or words that describe what it is he or she is searching for, and that those words match the acceptance level of the individual?

Someone else's interpretation of anything is completely meaningless if the seeking consciousness is going to be 'shorted out' by it; that results in almost immediate rejection of everything relative to a topic.

Personally, I'd rather seen an integration of the terms Metaphysics and New Age. They both serve to attract people toward the same end: becoming aware of something undiscovered.

Science and spirituality are like saying; mind and love. The emotional body is the whole point of the human experience. Emotionalizing words gives another kind of life to them; a feeling sense (something not understood among many intelligence in the cosmos), and we're more than lucky to be here doing it. There's a clamoring to get into this realm of 'madness'; it is not a common one among the universes according to my understanding.

The words compassion and love are academic, like everything else in mind. We add another element, or greater understanding about those words because of the emotional body. Mind is who we are; emotion in this realm is the challenge, and when we regard it equal to mind and fully integrate with it, we cannot be emotionally controlled.

In my puny brain, all the stuff of science, the cosmos, the vast unknowns are not nearly as fascinating as the human being. This mammal, in my case, is the greatest mystery in the universe, and something tells me when we have Mastery over that, we've hit the jackpot!

[PurpleLama]

Emphasis on words, knowing the original, uncorrupted use of terms is essential, as the misappropriation of meaning is very much interlaced with the very control mechinisms in place, running the matrix below the conscious level which manifests as the reality we in turn experience. The conflation of terms and the ascribing of inappropriate functions, thinking with the heart, etc, is a way in which we are confused, distracted, and thereby led.

[Linda Joy Crutcher]

Emphasis on words, knowing the original, uncorrupted use of terms is essential, as the misappropriation of meaning is very much interlaced with the very control mechinisms in place, running the matrix below the conscious level which manifests as the reality we in turn experience. The conflation of terms and the ascribing of inappropriate functions, thinking with the heart, etc, is a way in which we are confused, distracted, and thereby led.

Essential to whom?

Whatever one says something means is still subject to interpretation by the individual hearing it and people only hear what they can accept. We confound everything; make it our own so that we can absorb it and if we can't do that, we change it to suit our sense of security, or reject it completely. In this realm, people need to feel safe before they venture into the unknown (precisely what integrating with the emotional body is all about); defining words according to what an accepted truth is doesn't guarantee anything. In short, it is the emotional aspect of human nature that causes confusion because we don't understand it and fear letting go. We can talk logic and reason ad nauseam, but if people aren't safe to hear they won't budge regardless of the words we use. Then, it becomes important to use words they can hear; ones that may not be restricted to absolute definitions, so they are safe to open and receive new information.

Did you hear anything I said? I had a hard time hearing you too! Just kidding!

Blessings.

[Michelle Marie]

turiya...I love this:

"Awareness is enough to put an end to a bad dream."

Simple Truth.

Michelle Marie

[Anchor]

As a more general statement, if it is agreement with the forum staff, I would like to take over as OP of this thread, this thread has been on my mind as of late, and I'd like to see it continue in the spirit with which it was begun.

Just steer it anyway :)

[Anchor]

Whatever one says something means is still subject to interpretation by the individual hearing it and people only hear what they can accept.

Well, there is one invariant and it is important, which is the intent behind the utterance.

Yes people may misinterpret what you say, but there in lies the subtlety of freewill. We can opt to enter into a discourse and elaborate sufficiently well through questions and answers so that the meaning interpreted by the listener is the same as that intended by the speaker.


We can talk logic and reason ad nauseam, but if people aren't safe to hear they won't budge regardless of the words we use. Then, it becomes important to use words they can hear; ones that may not be restricted to absolute definitions, so they are safe to open and receive new information.

This of course assumes that what is being said is worth listening to. There are other reasons I may not accept "new information", and it may be that I simply don't agree with what is being said.

Consider:

Person A: Here is some important information about metaphysics that will change your life...
Person B: Whatever
Person A: <delivers monologue>
Person B: Whatever, nods politely

Person B in this scenario may not be in fear. He may in fact just not be interested in what person A thinks is so important, or may in fact know a great deal more than A - lots of possibilities.

vs.

Person B: Hey do you know anything about ritual magic
Person A: Why yes I do ... <delivers monologue>
Person B: Thanks, there is plenty of food for thought there...

In my opinion, the first scenario represents a potential freewill violation - minor since Person B can usually opt to disregard it, or in your scenario recoil from it in fear.

We are all teachers. We are all students. We get to decide when and where. We get to feel great that people are interested in what we have to offer, or deal humbly with the rejection of it. So it goes on. We get to benefit from teachings of others who have more experience of areas of interest to us, and we also get to wade through a lot of information that does not seem interesting to us - or basically non-resonant to our energy.


Then, it becomes important to use words they can hear; ones that may not be restricted to absolute definitions, so they are safe to open and receive new information

Jesus taught groups of people using parables. In this way, those that had ears to hear and the mind to, could interpret and discern the lessons. Those that did not were free to have their lives unaffected by his transforming love and wisdom. I imagine that when Jesus was with his disciples or one on one with a student, he would have been a lot more direct!

[Mr. Metazoan]

The emotions in our thoughts come from our endocrine system. Hormones in our synapses give us a smile or a frown as the thought is created.

[PurpleLama]

I would put forth some contradiction to your statement, LJC. While some confusion of terms and the interpretation thereof may indeed be intrinsic to our human experience, there is what may be termed True, and while one person may have more or less an understanding of this actuality, and some might describe it one way or another, contrary to popular belief it's not something that each may operate their own version of it, it is what will inherently support itself. A wizard must needs be in pursuit of this element of what is actuat, whether it finds agreement, or understanding, or not, it is what it is.


As for the emotional body and fear, again I must not completely agree, as what we aspire to is the opposite from feeling safe, while I agree that safety is commonly sought, I would say that this is a fell state which can only have value if one is removed fromm their own courage and power. Integration of the emotional body comes not from feeling safe, or not feeling fear, rather it comes from examining every movement of self to know ones own self in total, this includes accepting the very fears you would escape, and knowing the foundations of such uncomfortable emotional constructs, some of which may indeed be made of what need not be feared in the light of awareness, and others of which may be well founded, and should be dealt with not by turning the other way, but by finding within the courage to match, having both the calm and the wisdom to do so.

I am terribly unconcerned that some should fail to see what's gone before in this thread and will continue, because some felt unsafe to do so. One whe needs to feel safe has the emotional body suppressed as opposed to integrated, and may well be led by their own subconscious triggers.

[PurpleLama]

I find it interesting that while you "agree... completely" with Mark, here, you then proceed to disagree with him so, ahem, completely with your every statement after.



Greetings, Bredren. I was so surprised to see this topic that I had to go to your profile to check and see when the last time you started a topic was.

It was in March of 2012. You start so few topics that when you do, I find it important to pay attention.

This topic is a direct assault against relativism. Against the "New Age Mumbo-Jumbo". Against holism and perhaps also synthesis, which has the word synthetic hidden in it, apropos of artificial, not natural or genuine, contrived.

I have posted consistently regarding the relativity of perception, the need to understand all points of view and allow for them and the perceived underlying unity of religious and spiritual traditions to the extent that they all encompass some fundamental reality, attempt to explain it and provide a pathway forward for those within those traditions, bounded tightly by their cultural parameters which blinker them, create separation and encourage fear-based thinking and being. A perfect cover for you-know-who to divide and conquer, and through so doing, reinforce the culture of pyramidal control. I have found it necessary to write on this topic in particular, here, in order to express the reality that we share more in common than we do apart.

With that said, when it comes down to it, metaphysics is indeed hard work. There was a reason a lot of the information that we possess today was secret. And it was not all because the PTB were in charge and they wanted to keep the truth from the masses. It was because most people were not ready for it. It was because it was and is dangerous. It was because metaphysics was and is the key to true sovereignty and re-integration with the whole.

For those who have an intellectual understanding of metaphysics as some abstract collection of old sayings and directives, of pithy one-liners and amorphous pie-in-the-sky meanderings, spit out by dissipative, meditating lotus-eaters, their characterization of it as such is indicative of the truly staggering and mind-blowing nature of the topic. And it is also indicative of the truth that they themselves have not experienced these deeper waters personally and determined for themselves the truth of the matter, or the fundamental Nowness of their submersion within an illusory format of being that only barely indicates the depth and nature of that which lies beneath.

Words are indeed spells. Sound is power. Vibration is energy in movement. These are fundamental realities of our existence. To cast the power of enunciation of the knowledge of etymology to the 4 winds as if they were no more than gaseous emanations of the bowels and intestines is to disempower self and the inherent power of creation in favor of intellectual masturbation.

Because I want to see where you are going with this, and participate further with greater knowledge of the terrain you're laying out, I will sit back now and eat popcorn for a while. I eagerly await what comes next.

I am again entranced by your words; not to mention that I agree with you completely. Thank you for taking the time to say what I couldn't.

[Linda Joy Crutcher]

Well, like I said, I have a simple mind. I interpret what I read according to the mind through which I understand, so there you have it!

Blessings and thanks.

[PurpleLama]

I would suggest that your repeated assertion of mental simplicity is perhaps an unconscious evading of the issue at hand, that being in my view a thought form perhaps designed to keep you from assimilating certain material that may lead to an internal investigation that potentially would reveal a foreign construct in the midst of your waking consciousness. Given your replies above, this is my assessment, however I will qualify my statement by acknowledging the fact that I do not know you, and may be making to broad a statement based on too little evidence. I do not pretend to have the same command of all the material as did the original poster, however I do have my own extensive experiental basis to draw from, and he and I have observed much overlapping between our respective basis for this knowledge. I wish to make it very clear, there is no judgement of you, the person, whatsoever, but that which has elsewhere been classified as "their mind" and the thought forms that may support it will receive no support from me. I invite you to see the contradiction I observed above, that you agreed with Mark only to disagree in another post soon after, and what this observation may imply. I believe you may find your courage, to live without fear or the need for safety, by such examination.

[sms]

If we look at the science and spirituality from a metaphysical platform, we may note some interesting things, which normally go beyond our perception. However, they are visible if we pay a bit more attention.

It seems that we are today in a situation which has been described by Rudolf Steiner long ago:


When the man of today thinks merely with his intellect and faculty of reason, his thoughts are not rooted in reality at all. More and more they move about in a shadowy existence which reached its climax during the nineteenth century. And today man is altogether devoid of the sense for reality. He lives within a spiritual element, but is at the same time a materialist. His thoughts — which are spiritual but yet merely shadow-thoughts — are directed entirely to material existence.

Thus the second great process or event was that man became more spiritual. But the spiritual substance once derived from matter no longer ensouls him. His nature has become more spiritual, but with his spiritual faculties he thinks only about material existence.

Lecture - Dornach; May 13, 1921 (http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA/GA0204/19210513p01.html)]

So, spiritual… but, - not ensouled?!

We should keep “not ensouled” on our minds, as it seems not be by chance.
If we go to Wikipedia for the definition of spirituality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality), we will see that something is missing there?! Of course, the Soul! So, one gets an impression that the spirituality does not have anything to do with the soul. In this reality, we do not have “Soul-ity”, we only have a Spirituality-without-the Soul.

Many of us noted that something was wrong with the new-age spirit-ual movement, however, more or less, all spirit-uality could be wrong. Spirit-ual teachings are the same as religious teachings. They appeal to our Mind component (“whose thoughts are not rooted in reality”) and Spirit component, to rationalise them and to follow them. What are saints in religions, so are various spiritual teachers and gurus in the spirit-ual field.

And, a normal human being , beside his physical body, has 3 (three) components! The Mind component, the Spirit component and the Soul component. We may even say, three kinds of consciousness, the Mind consciousness, the Spirit consciousness and the Soul consciousness. Not one, not two, but three. And the third one was taken out of “equation”. Why?

Because, we live in a controlled reality, and in a controlled reality, we can only have a controlled spirit-uality. So called, archontic forces which control this reality, do not have the Soul component. However, to have a full expression in this holographic or virtual reality, one has to have all components. So, as the archons have the Mind component and the Spirit component, they are pumping various versions of false spirituality into our reality through people who act as their vehicles (or proxy-servers).

The lack of the Soul component, they have compensated by development of the Mind component (intelligence/intellect) in many cases by the help of technology (AI). On our level, this is reflected by this drive, which souless humans currently have, towards transhumanism or singularity. In fact, for souless entities, this is the only way to proceed. Nothing wrong with that, if there could be a possibility that everybody goes where he wants by his own choice, however, they can not allow it. The problem is that although they do not have a soul, they still need it, so they have to use the souls from those who have it. The “soul thieves”, one may say.

So, having on mind the esoteric principle “as above, so below”, we may ask ourselves how smart thieves operate in our reality? Of course, they would distract their victim, and while bringing his attention to something else, they would sneak their hands into his pocket. So, in this reality, the spirituality-without-the soul has been used for a long time for distraction of humanity, while they are “stealing” our souls. In a way, one may say that almost each spirit-ual teaching we are aware of in this reality, has been set up as a trap.

**

In the Eastern Gnosis (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_autor_mouravieff.htm), the Soul is regarded as a Master of the body, which is expressed in the Parable of the Coach, where the coach itself represents the physical body, horses the Spirit, the coachman the Mind/personality and in the coach was supposed to be a passenger, who was regarded as its master and navigator.

So, in its normal state, the whole system is in a perfect state of operation: the coachman holds the reins firmly in his hands and drives the horses in the direction indicated by the master. However, in these times, the human being is far from the perfect state. The coachmen has fallen asleep, he is dreaming that he was the owner of the coach and so, he is unable to perceive the passenger; as he can not perceive or hear him, he steers the horses in a pretty dubious direction... or towards an abyss, one may say.

As we know, many coachmen in this reality make themselves often busy with spirit-uality, science etc..., therefore, without a connection with their souls, they are coming into a situation which Russian esotericist Gurdjieff described long ago as: “Most of people spend whole their lives in a state of sleep. In the state of the sleep, some of them may make themselves busy with science, while others may even write books.”

This means that being spiritual does not mean being awake, aware or conscious. The spiritual person/coachman is just operated by a program not much different than a religion, or any other ideology.

**

Now, lets go to the science. Without a definition for science, we can say straight away that the soul component was missing there, as well. The science takes even the consciousness as a “hidden parameter”, because it can not be seen, weighed or measured.

Although, the concept of our universe as a hologram/virtual reality was expressed long ago (D. Bohm, Pribram etc.), these days, there is more and more evidence coming which indicate that it may be so. A reality can not be both, virtual and objective. So, if our reality is virtual, it can not be objective.


A virtual reality is here considered to be a reality created by information processing, and so by definition it cannot exist independently in and of itself, as it depends upon processing to exist. If the processing stops then the virtual reality must also cease to exist. In contrast an objective reality simply is, and does not need anything else to sustain it. This suggests two hypotheses about our reality:

1. The objective reality (OR) hypothesis: That our physical reality is an objective reality that exists in and of itself, and being self-contained needs nothing outside of itself to explain it.

2. The virtual reality (VR) hypothesis: That our physical reality is a virtual reality that depends upon information processing to exist, which processing must occur outside of itself.

B. Whitworth, The Physical World as a Virtual Reality (http://galaksija.com/literatura/vr.pdf)

The real can not be measured by unreal. What would be objective in a virtual reality? The consciousness only, as it seems.

Now comes an interesting part. During more than 40 years of research, Italian scientists lead by Dr Corrado Malanga have subjected numerous people who claimed that they were abducted by archons/aliens to hypnosis and they have discovered that really, all of them had all three components, however, in a sort of a disconnected state. So, there was no communication between them. The Mind component (“whose thought are not rooted in reality”) was usually leading the show inside the being, while the Soul component was ignored. They were able to “interview” each component separately.

So, they found out that archons/aliens were utilising human souls for various purposes, while their human hosts were unaware of that, more or less. What the Souls are used for??

Before answering this question, we will have a look at the following images, which I took from Dr Malanga’s work, Genesis III (unfortunately, still not translated into English):

http://galaksija.com/images/duh-dusa.jpg
Spazio – Space; Tempo – Time
Spirito – Spirit; Anima - Soul

The Soul has been defined in space, in energy and in consciousness, so regarding that she consists from the the space and energy components, she projects itself along the time axis, in order to experience or learn about the spiritual reality. Therefore, a Soul may be incarnated into more human bodies, however, in different times.

The Spirit has been defined in time, energy and consciousness, so regarding that he consists from the time and energy components, he projects itself along the space axis, in order to experience or learn about the spiritual reality. Therefore, a Spirit may be incarnated into more human bodies, however, in the same time.

http://galaksija.com/images/um.jpg
Mente – Mind

The Mind has been defined in the space, time and consciousness, so regarding that it consists from the components of the space and time, it projects itself along the energy axis, in order to experience or learn about the spiritual reality.
So, these three components can be regarded as the „Holy Trinity“ of a human being.

**

From the above, we may see that the Soul as a component of a human being, has some interesting properties. It has the energy and at the same time, she is eternal, as she exists across the time. It seems that this was a reason for her absence in “our” spirit-uality?!

While our attention has been diverted to all other sides, the entities which manipulate and control this reality and humanity in general, have been manipulating our souls, in order to use their energy. They need the soul energy.

And, by genetically manipulating our physical bodies, they hope to make such bodies for themselves, which would be able to bind a Soul, to make themselves eternal. (Throughout the time, they have been using many of us as “living tombs” (http://galaksija.com/literatura/malanga_updates.pdf ) where they store their “deads,” i.e. Spirit-Mind complexes, till new alien bodies become available to them. They will be fed or nurtured by our own soul energy during that time.)

Furthermore, it seems that there must be a certain resonance between the Soul frequency and the body frequency. Current alien bodies seem not to have the required frequency. So, they are dependent on us.

In this reality, we are controlled through dualities, as well. So, most of the spirit-ual teaching are addressing our binary Minds, and leading them to perform mental gymnastics in a never ending paradigm of reconciliation between good and bad, light and darkness, love and hate, black and white, hot and cold…etc. etc. which are just two different polarities of the same.

On the other hand, a human being with integrated components (consciousness) does not see reality this way. Beside the “positive” and “negative”, there is a - third force (which is in Easter gnosis called the neutralising force). This force overcomes dualities and restores a balance, honouring life and the creation…
So, each component of a human being is of an equal importance for his wholeness and it seems that they can be connected to each other, again, as they were at the beginning of time, before they were divided. (“Divide and conquer” means that if you divide the consciousness of a human being to its components, you can conquer him easily, as he is not whole, any more). People who manage to integrate their consciousness will become spiritual in a true sense, while those who are following some spiritual teachings and exercising prescribed spiritual practices may become spirit-ual, but divorced from their souls, as Steiner implied long ago!? The real spirituality will come from within and it will be based on all parts of one’s being. It will lead to an individualisation of a human being and to his ultimate liberation.

**

At the end, we may take some time to have a look at the movie the Never Ending Story, where we could interpret symbolically the kid Atreyu as our Spirit component, the luckdragon Falkor as our Mind component and the Childlike Empress, as our Soul component:

3khTntOxX-k

Everything is expressed there. It is all about the integration of our consciousness through the integration of all our components (http://evelorgen.com/wp/news/triad-color-test-tctd-update-by-dr-corrado-malanga/) in the virtual reality universe .

…

[Mark]

Just in momentarily, as I have an evening of writing to do, but wanted to comment as I saw an old post of mine had been resurrected.

I continue to believe this thread is important, despite its originator's absence. He is well, in case anyone was wondering.

Linda, I understand where you are coming from, I think Anchor's post explores the implications adequately. Reilly's invocation of "Their Mind" brings us full circle, as the metaphysical discussion engaged in here began elsewhere, with other discussions about Archons/Flyers/Foreign Installation/Asuras etc., Artificial Intelligence and Mind Control, to the effect that certain energies were raised which are inimical to the free and unfiltered expression of certain forms of truth.

There is relativity and there is Relativity. There is truth and there is Truth.

In my statement, words are power, I meant that actually quite literally in the foundational aspect of sound as the fundamental 'stuff of creation' itself, as vibration, resonance. Words are an expression of this fundamental power and, as such, contain power themselves. It is my understanding that even if words are used differently, obtain varying meanings over time and through space, their original meanings are still implicit in their verbal invocation.

Our understanding of the word itself, its etymology and cultural usage may not directly invoke its original meaning, but the sound itself and its underlying associations with deeper, cosmic forces that have correspondingly greater meanings forms the very basis of magic, of casting spells, of wielding aural tones as instruments of multiversal communication designed to affect reality at mundane and higher levels of materialization. I used a very disturbing example of this in an earlier response on this thread. A word that went from meaning God to meaning the lowest of human beings. And yet, still, that word still possesses the power of its original meaning, very clearly, as all who have used it or heard it know from personal experience.

In regards to "Their Mind" and emotions, the process of awakening seems to automatically result in a clearing of that particular thorn in the consciousness of those seeking a higher state of personal expression. Once a certain understanding is reached, it does not matter where the thoughts which result in emotional uprisings (from the hypothalamus, yes, a physical thing and a chemical reaction, but thoughts and consciousness are not dependent upon bodily incarnation) originate. Their clearing, which is accomplished by the same methods no matter the tradition or belief, is the same.

I appreciate the relativity and limitations of language and the patience required to slog through the time necessary in order to foment clear understanding. It is worth it, though. All contributions are worthwhile and it is in the discussion that we each come to understand, not necessarily others, but ourselves even more. Thank you for Being.

[ThePythonicCow]

As a more general statement, if it is agreement with the forum staff, I would like to take over as OP of this thread, this thread has been on my mind as of late, and I'd like to see it continue in the spirit with which it was begun.

Just steer it anyway :)

Yup :)

[gripreaper]

Here is where Science and Spirituality meet:

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Soccer-Kick-Ball-to-Reporter-Head.gif

[Linda Joy Crutcher]

I love your contributions and thank you for them. It occurs to me how beautifully we perceive ourselves. . . isn't it fun!

Blessings.

[TOTHE]

G2 Cloud Predicted to Approach Twice as Close to GC: an update to the story on the G2 Cloud’s approach to the Galactic Core by our friend Dr. Paul LaViolette. Event date has been moved up to center on/around March 2014 +/– one month.

http://etheric.com/g2-cloud-predicted-to-approach-twice-as-close-to-gc/

His blog & tracking history of G2 Cloud.
http://starburstfound.org/superwaveblog/?p=300

[lookbeyond]

If we look at the science and spirituality from a metaphysical platform, we may note some interesting things, which normally go beyond our perception. However, they are visible if we pay a bit more attention.

It seems that we are today in a situation which has been described by Rudolf Steiner long ago:


When the man of today thinks merely with his intellect and faculty of reason, his thoughts are not rooted in reality at all. More and more they move about in a shadowy existence which reached its climax during the nineteenth century. And today man is altogether devoid of the sense for reality. He lives within a spiritual element, but is at the same time a materialist. His thoughts — which are spiritual but yet merely shadow-thoughts — are directed entirely to material existence.

Thus the second great process or event was that man became more spiritual. But the spiritual substance once derived from matter no longer ensouls him. His nature has become more spiritual, but with his spiritual faculties he thinks only about material existence.

Lecture - Dornach; May 13, 1921 (http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA/GA0204/19210513p01.html)]

So, spiritual… but, - not ensouled?!

We should keep “not ensouled” on our minds, as it seems not be by chance.
If we go to Wikipedia for the definition of spirituality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality), we will see that something is missing there?! Of course, the Soul! So, one gets an impression that the spirituality does not have anything to do with the soul. In this reality, we do not have “Soul-ity”, we only have a Spirituality-without-the Soul.

Many of us noted that something was wrong with the new-age spirit-ual movement, however, more or less, all spirit-uality could be wrong. Spirit-ual teachings are the same as religious teachings. They appeal to our Mind component (“whose thoughts are not rooted in reality”) and Spirit component, to rationalise them and to follow them. What are saints in religions, so are various spiritual teachers and gurus in the spirit-ual field.

And, a normal human being , beside his physical body, has 3 (three) components! The Mind component, the Spirit component and the Soul component. We may even say, three kinds of consciousness, the Mind consciousness, the Spirit consciousness and the Soul consciousness. Not one, not two, but three. And the third one was taken out of “equation”. Why?

Because, we live in a controlled reality, and in a controlled reality, we can only have a controlled spirit-uality. So called, archontic forces which control this reality, do not have the Soul component. However, to have a full expression in this holographic or virtual reality, one has to have all components. So, as the archons have the Mind component and the Spirit component, they are pumping various versions of false spirituality into our reality through people who act as their vehicles (or proxy-servers).

The lack of the Soul component, they have compensated by development of the Mind component (intelligence/intellect) in many cases by the help of technology (AI). On our level, this is reflected by this drive, which souless humans currently have, towards transhumanism or singularity. In fact, for souless entities, this is the only way to proceed. Nothing wrong with that, if there could be a possibility that everybody goes where he wants by his own choice, however, they can not allow it. The problem is that although they do not have a soul, they still need it, so they have to use the souls from those who have it. The “soul thieves”, one may say.

So, having on mind the esoteric principle “as above, so below”, we may ask ourselves how smart thieves operate in our reality? Of course, they would distract their victim, and while bringing his attention to something else, they would sneak their hands into his pocket. So, in this reality, the spirituality-without-the soul has been used for a long time for distraction of humanity, while they are “stealing” our souls. In a way, one may say that almost each spirit-ual teaching we are aware of in this reality, has been set up as a trap.

**

In the Eastern Gnosis (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_autor_mouravieff.htm), the Soul is regarded as a Master of the body, which is expressed in the Parable of the Coach, where the coach itself represents the physical body, horses the Spirit, the coachman the Mind/personality and in the coach was supposed to be a passenger, who was regarded as its master and navigator.

So, in its normal state, the whole system is in a perfect state of operation: the coachman holds the reins firmly in his hands and drives the horses in the direction indicated by the master. However, in these times, the human being is far from the perfect state. The coachmen has fallen asleep, he is dreaming that he was the owner of the coach and so, he is unable to perceive the passenger; as he can not perceive or hear him, he steers the horses in a pretty dubious direction... or towards an abyss, one may say.

As we know, many coachmen in this reality make themselves often busy with spirit-uality, science etc..., therefore, without a connection with their souls, they are coming into a situation which Russian esotericist Gurdjieff described long ago as: “Most of people spend whole their lives in a state of sleep. In the state of the sleep, some of them may make themselves busy with science, while others may even write books.”

This means that being spiritual does not mean being awake, aware or conscious. The spiritual person/coachman is just operated by a program not much different than a religion, or any other ideology.

**

Now, lets go to the science. Without a definition for science, we can say straight away that the soul component was missing there, as well. The science takes even the consciousness as a “hidden parameter”, because it can not be seen, weighed or measured.

Although, the concept of our universe as a hologram/virtual reality was expressed long ago (D. Bohm, Pribram etc.), these days, there is more and more evidence coming which indicate that it may be so. A reality can not be both, virtual and objective. So, if our reality is virtual, it can not be objective.


A virtual reality is here considered to be a reality created by information processing, and so by definition it cannot exist independently in and of itself, as it depends upon processing to exist. If the processing stops then the virtual reality must also cease to exist. In contrast an objective reality simply is, and does not need anything else to sustain it. This suggests two hypotheses about our reality:

1. The objective reality (OR) hypothesis: That our physical reality is an objective reality that exists in and of itself, and being self-contained needs nothing outside of itself to explain it.

2. The virtual reality (VR) hypothesis: That our physical reality is a virtual reality that depends upon information processing to exist, which processing must occur outside of itself.

B. Whitworth, The Physical World as a Virtual Reality (http://galaksija.com/literatura/vr.pdf)

The real can not be measured by unreal. What would be objective in a virtual reality? The consciousness only, as it seems.

Now comes an interesting part. During more than 40 years of research, Italian scientists lead by Dr Corrado Malanga have subjected numerous people who claimed that they were abducted by archons/aliens to hypnosis and they have discovered that really, all of them had all three components, however, in a sort of a disconnected state. So, there was no communication between them. The Mind component (“whose thought are not rooted in reality”) was usually leading the show inside the being, while the Soul component was ignored. They were able to “interview” each component separately.

So, they found out that archons/aliens were utilising human souls for various purposes, while their human hosts were unaware of that, more or less. What the Souls are used for??

Before answering this question, we will have a look at the following images, which I took from Dr Malanga’s work, Genesis III (unfortunately, still not translated into English):

http://galaksija.com/images/duh-dusa.jpg
Spazio – Space; Tempo – Time
Spirito – Spirit; Anima - Soul

The Soul has been defined in space, in energy and in consciousness, so regarding that she consists from the the space and energy components, she projects itself along the time axis, in order to experience or learn about the spiritual reality. Therefore, a Soul may be incarnated into more human bodies, however, in different times.

The Spirit has been defined in time, energy and consciousness, so regarding that he consists from the time and energy components, he projects itself along the space axis, in order to experience or learn about the spiritual reality. Therefore, a Spirit may be incarnated into more human bodies, however, in the same time.

http://galaksija.com/images/um.jpg
Mente – Mind

The Mind has been defined in the space, time and consciousness, so regarding that it consists from the components of the space and time, it projects itself along the energy axis, in order to experience or learn about the spiritual reality.
So, these three components can be regarded as the „Holy Trinity“ of a human being.

**

From the above, we may see that the Soul as a component of a human being, has some interesting properties. It has the energy and at the same time, she is eternal, as she exists across the time. It seems that this was a reason for her absence in “our” spirit-uality?!

While our attention has been diverted to all other sides, the entities which manipulate and control this reality and humanity in general, have been manipulating our souls, in order to use their energy. They need the soul energy.

And, by genetically manipulating our physical bodies, they hope to make such bodies for themselves, which would be able to bind a Soul, to make themselves eternal. (Throughout the time, they have been using many of us as “living tombs” (http://galaksija.com/literatura/malanga_updates.pdf ) where they store their “deads,” i.e. Spirit-Mind complexes, till new alien bodies become available to them. They will be fed or nurtured by our own soul energy during that time.)

Furthermore, it seems that there must be a certain resonance between the Soul frequency and the body frequency. Current alien bodies seem not to have the required frequency. So, they are dependent on us.

In this reality, we are controlled through dualities, as well. So, most of the spirit-ual teaching are addressing our binary Minds, and leading them to perform mental gymnastics in a never ending paradigm of reconciliation between good and bad, light and darkness, love and hate, black and white, hot and cold…etc. etc. which are just two different polarities of the same.

On the other hand, a human being with integrated components (consciousness) does not see reality this way. Beside the “positive” and “negative”, there is a - third force (which is in Easter gnosis called the neutralising force). This force overcomes dualities and restores a balance, honouring life and the creation…
So, each component of a human being is of an equal importance for his wholeness and it seems that they can be connected to each other, again, as they were at the beginning of time, before they were divided. (“Divide and conquer” means that if you divide the consciousness of a human being to its components, you can conquer him easily, as he is not whole, any more). People who manage to integrate their consciousness will become spiritual in a true sense, while those who are following some spiritual teachings and exercising prescribed spiritual practices may become spirit-ual, but divorced from their souls, as Steiner implied long ago!? The real spirituality will come from within and it will be based on all parts of one’s being. It will lead to an individualisation of a human being and to his ultimate liberation.

**

At the end, we may take some time to have a look at the movie the Never Ending Story, where we could interpret symbolically the kid Atreyu as our Spirit component, the luckdragon Falkor as our Mind component and the Childlike Empress, as our Soul component:

3khTntOxX-k

Everything is expressed there. It is all about the integration of our consciousness through the integration of all our components (http://evelorgen.com/wp/news/triad-color-test-tctd-update-by-dr-corrado-malanga/) in the virtual reality universe .

…

Hi sms, with re to "reintegration" as a way to neutralise archontic interference wi our souls can one follow any technique eg Chris Thomas s as discussed in turiyas thread? ( sorry am not able to post links- must learn)-lb

[ThePythonicCow]

G2 Cloud Predicted to Approach Twice as Close to GC: an update to the story on the G2 Cloud’s approach to the Galactic Core by our friend Dr. Paul LaViolette. Event date has been moved up to center on/around March 2014 +/– one month.

http://etheric.com/g2-cloud-predicted-to-approach-twice-as-close-to-gc/

His blog & tracking history of G2 Cloud.
http://starburstfound.org/superwaveblog/?p=300

Thank-you for posting this. It has, in my estimation, the potential to be the most prophetic post yet on this forum :).

Here are the culminating words of LaViolette from the first link above. I used the notation 10<xx> for "ten to the power of xx", since I can't write superscripts here.

=============




It is known that a very high percentage of stars in our Galaxy are either binary star systems or are single stars orbited by jovian planets. Hence there is a high probability that the G2 cloud may harbor such a multi-body system. If this is the case, there is the danger that the Galactic core may tidally strip away and consume the system’s lower-mass companion star or one or more of the star’s planets at the time of pericenter passage of the core. For example, a one solar mass star similar to the Sun would have a tidal radius of 0.5 to 1 AU at its orbital pericenter which means that any stellar companions, planets, or debris orbiting at radii greater than this could be tidally stripped away from their orbit about the primary star and ultimately be pulled into the galactic core.

In the case where an entire 100 jupiter mass brown dwarf were to plunge into the Galactic core in one discrete event, the energy release would be equivalent to that released in a hypernova, the most powerful of known supernova exposions (~10<53> ergs). This could be enough to jump-start the Galactic core into a Seyfert state and generate a potentially lethal superwave. If this amount of energy were delivered within the space of one day, this would release energy at the rate of 10<48> erg per second, giving a luminosity one hundred thousand times greater than the cosmic ray luminosity estimated to currently be coming from Sgr A* (based on my estimate of 10<43> ergs/s — see Subquantum Kinetics (http://etheric.com/subquantum-kinetics-4th-edition/)), and equivalent to the luminosity radiated by the active core in a Seyfert galaxy.

We will know if such a scenario is going to occur by closely monitoring the G2 cloud. As the cloud nears pericenter, if we see it appear to divide and spawn off a subcloud that begins rapidly accelerating directly toward the Galactic core, we will know this worst case scenario is about to occur. This subcloud will contain within it the binary companion star or jovian planet that has been tidally stripped off from the parent star. At this point we will have about two months before its inevitable impact on the core, at which point an exceedingly bright gamma ray burst and cosmic ray spike will be detected on Earth, far greater than any we have seen until now. The superwave will have arrived at our doorstep, possibly heralded by earthquakes occurring a few days before.
=============

The earthquakes would occur first, because the gravity wave travels slightly faster than the gamma ray burst.

Paul LaViolette's Galactic Superwave was discussed in more detail in the thread: Dr. Paul LaViolette's Super Wave Theory- 2012 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?38722-Dr.-Paul-LaViolette-s-Super-Wave-Theory-2012).

When a major superwave hits the solar system, the immediate effects of earthquakes and the gamma ray burst (which could destroy our civilization's electrical grid and many electronic systems) are just the beginning. The resulting excitation of our sun can cause periods of global warming and glacial periods lasting thousands of years, and result in another major die-off of the majority of species on the planet.

[sms]

Hi sms, with re to "reintegration" as a way to neutralise archontic interference wi our souls can one follow any technique eg Chris Thomas s as discussed in turiyas thread? ( sorry am not able to post links- must learn)-lb

In my post, I was talking about „amputated“ spiritual teachings, where one can easily see that the soul component was usually missing. I have stressed there that all components of the human being are of equal importance and that they should be integrated. Chris’s teaching would come into the same category of “amputated spirituality”, as we can see that the soul component was present (though by ~ 20%!?), however, other components were missing, which is a bit peculiar case. His technique of integrating the soul with the body I would not comment.

What I find amusing, recently I read the book Our Universal Journey, written by G. Kavassilas who was interviewed by Project Camelot - here (http://projectcamelotproductions.com/interviews/george_kavassilas/george_kavassilas.html) and who obtained a lot of information about the situation on the field by projecting his spirit across the universe. From that perspective, he noted how we were controlled by an AI through our chakras (and Pineal gland). On the other hand, on the ground of reading akashic records, Chris states that our soul is connected to us through chakras. Is not it interesting to get two completely different information about the purpose of our chakras from seemingly credible sources?! Which one is right? In fact, the question would be like asking which of today’s religions was the right one.

I would advise all teachers promoting 1 or 2-component-spirituality to read the book Masqerade of Angels (http://galaksija.com/literatura/Karla_Turner_Masquerade_of_Angels.pdf) written by Dr Karla Turner, where she described a rare case of Ted Rice, a psychic healer, who realised that he was manipulated by aliens to become a "spiritual teacher" and pulled out of the project. If he had not pulled out, today we would probably have a topic on this forum: “An Update On Our Evolution by Ted Rice”. I say, a rare case, as most of the others proceed under an impression that they were guided by a divine hand to work for the good of humanity, while in fact, acting as alien spiritual disinfo vehicles. After reading the book, look honestly and sincerely into the experiences in your own lives and compare them with Ted’s ones. You will see many parallels (though, probably in a different light).


…

[lookbeyond]

Thanks sms i started reading Masquerade of Angels a few days ago, lb

[•Ik•]

Is there not one and only one metaphysic that explains it all, is it all, and subsumes all other metaphysical views, principles and models?

Thus, when we discover that metaphysic, that is the end, no?

[Chester]

I would advise all teachers promoting 1 or 2-component-spirituality to read the book Masqerade of Angels (http://galaksija.com/literatura/Karla_Turner_Masquerade_of_Angels.pdf) written by Dr Karla Turner, where she described a rare case of Ted Rice, a psychic healer, who realised that he was manipulated by aliens to become a "spiritual teacher" and pulled out of the project. If he had not pulled out, today we would probably have a topic on this forum: “An Update On Our Evolution by Ted Rice”. I say, a rare case, as most of the others proceed under an impression that they were guided by a divine hand to work for the good of humanity, while in fact, acting as alien spiritual disinfo vehicles. After reading the book, look honestly and sincerely into the experiences in your own lives and compare them with Ted’s ones. You will see many parallels (though, probably in a different light).


I prefer the actual book in my hand and so went to Amazon to purchase a copy. What a shock when I discovered a.) that it must be out of print and b.) that it is only available in used form and c.) the starting price is $320!!

I have to settle for the PDF - thank goodness it is available that way.

I must add that I started a thread over in "Spirituality" addressing this very point made by sms about so called "spiritual teachers" who are (and likely unwittingly are or they would not be so convincing)


acting as alien spiritual disinfo vehicles.

This is exactly what inspired me to create this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59350-For-those-who-are-able-to-open-their-mind-further)

[DeDukshyn]

Believe nothing ... consider everything. Share the tools that have helped you. Discard those that have not. At the end of the day the only ones we are truly responsible for is ourselves.

[nomadguy]

G2 Cloud Predicted to Approach Twice as Close to GC: an update to the story on the G2 Cloud’s approach to the Galactic Core by our friend Dr. Paul LaViolette. Event date has been moved up to center on/around March 2014 +/– one month.

http://etheric.com/g2-cloud-predicted-to-approach-twice-as-close-to-gc/

His blog & tracking history of G2 Cloud.
http://starburstfound.org/superwaveblog/?p=300

Thank-you for posting this. It has, in my estimation, the potential to be the most prophetic post yet on this forum :).

Here are the culminating words of LaViolette from the first link above. I used the notation 10<xx> for "ten to the power of xx", since I can't write superscripts here.

=============




It is known that a very high percentage of stars in our Galaxy are either binary star systems or are single stars orbited by jovian planets. Hence there is a high probability that the G2 cloud may harbor such a multi-body system. If this is the case, there is the danger that the Galactic core may tidally strip away and consume the system’s lower-mass companion star or one or more of the star’s planets at the time of pericenter passage of the core. For example, a one solar mass star similar to the Sun would have a tidal radius of 0.5 to 1 AU at its orbital pericenter which means that any stellar companions, planets, or debris orbiting at radii greater than this could be tidally stripped away from their orbit about the primary star and ultimately be pulled into the galactic core.

In the case where an entire 100 jupiter mass brown dwarf were to plunge into the Galactic core in one discrete event, the energy release would be equivalent to that released in a hypernova, the most powerful of known supernova exposions (~10<53> ergs). This could be enough to jump-start the Galactic core into a Seyfert state and generate a potentially lethal superwave. If this amount of energy were delivered within the space of one day, this would release energy at the rate of 10<48> erg per second, giving a luminosity one hundred thousand times greater than the cosmic ray luminosity estimated to currently be coming from Sgr A* (based on my estimate of 10<43> ergs/s — see Subquantum Kinetics (http://etheric.com/subquantum-kinetics-4th-edition/)), and equivalent to the luminosity radiated by the active core in a Seyfert galaxy.

We will know if such a scenario is going to occur by closely monitoring the G2 cloud. As the cloud nears pericenter, if we see it appear to divide and spawn off a subcloud that begins rapidly accelerating directly toward the Galactic core, we will know this worst case scenario is about to occur. This subcloud will contain within it the binary companion star or jovian planet that has been tidally stripped off from the parent star. At this point we will have about two months before its inevitable impact on the core, at which point an exceedingly bright gamma ray burst and cosmic ray spike will be detected on Earth, far greater than any we have seen until now. The superwave will have arrived at our doorstep, possibly heralded by earthquakes occurring a few days before.
=============

The earthquakes would occur first, because the gravity wave travels slightly faster than the gamma ray burst.

Paul LaViolette's Galactic Superwave was discussed in more detail in the thread: Dr. Paul LaViolette's Super Wave Theory- 2012 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?38722-Dr.-Paul-LaViolette-s-Super-Wave-Theory-2012).

When a major superwave hits the solar system, the immediate effects of earthquakes and the gamma ray burst (which could destroy our civilization's electrical grid and many electronic systems) are just the beginning. The resulting excitation of our sun can cause periods of global warming and glacial periods lasting thousands of years, and result in another major die-off of the majority of species on the planet.

Here is one of Paul LaVoilette's latest interviews where he discusses the possible effects of the G2 cloud interacting with the Sagitarius A "so-called black hole" region. He also discusses a list of other very important topics.
vnkF4WtLu0Q

[ThePythonicCow]

Here is one of Paul LaVoilette's latest interviews where he discusses the possible effects of the G2 cloud interacting with the Sagitarius A "so-called black hole" region. He also discusses a list of other very important topics.
vnkF4WtLu0Q

Awesome - thanks!

[ThePythonicCow]

Another interesting interview, this one by Matt Pulver, who has been working with Paul LaViolette to model subquantum kinetics, and who is also working with Kerry Cassidy on a new web site Blue Science (http://www.blue-science.org/articles/):
kEVBRJs85Qg

I had made an effort a year ago to assist Paul LaViolette and Matt Pulver on modeling subquantum kinetics, but my mathematical skills with partial differential equations and the like were woefully inadequate to the task.

[ThePythonicCow]

Another interesting interview, this one by Matt Pulver, who has been working with Paul LaViolette to model subquantum kinetics, and who is also working with Kerry Cassidy on a new web site Blue Science (http://www.blue-science.org/articles/):
I found the original blurb describing this interview of Matt Pulver at John Maguire: YouTube Audio (1:21:36) Blue Science’s Matt Pulver: Subquantum Kinetics, Pathological Science, and Modeling Consciousness (http://www.phibetaiota.net/2013/05/john-maguire-youtube-audio-12136-blue-sciences-matt-pulver-subquantum-kinetics-pathological-science-and-modeling-consciousness/):




Published on May 17, 2013

Interview with Physicist and Consciousness Researcher Matt Pulver on the topics of Theoretical Physics, the Sociology of Science, and Consciousness/Perception. Matt works with Dr. Paul LaViolette in modeling Subquantum Kinetics; Dr. Paul’s novel systems approach to microphysics and cosmology. Matt is also the coordinator of Project Camelot’s Blue Science, an undertaking intended to expand public awareness of ‘Censored Science’. Reference Abstracted Outline below for effective skimming:

0.min-6.min: Matt’s Academic experience; Project Camelot/Blue Science; Funding in Academia; the Independent Researcher; Kerry Cassidy

6.min-30.min: Collaberative work with Dr. Paul LaViolette; Predictions of Subquantum Kinetics; String Theory as a Brain Drain; Particles as Dissipative Structures; Gravity; Unaccounted Core Energy in Planets/Stars; Genic Energy; Galactic Superwaves; Pioneer Anomaly; Was There a Big Bang; Red Shift as a Doppler Effect; Red Shift as Tired Light Effect; Micro Physics as an Open System Phenomenon

31.min-37.min: Science in Academia; Was the Ether Disproven; Politics of the Master Game; Black Projects; Phil Schneider and Underground Bases; Sociology of Science; Thrive Movie

38.min-54.min: Ra and the Law of One; Space for Spirituality; Gödel’s Theorem; Philosophy/History of Mathematics; Consciousness; False-Flags; What Is Truth; Russell’s Paradox; Formal Number Theory; Shortcomings/Limitations of Mathematical Logic/Proofs; Qualitative vs. Quantitative Thinking

55.min-1.hour.2.min: Structure of Consciousness; Altered Perception; Limitations of Awareness; Archetypes and Artifacts; Embracing Paradox and Holism

1.hour.3.min-1.hour.21.min: Where Does Consciousness Come From; Self-Awareness and God; Electrogravitics; Reverse Engineering B2-Bomber; T. Townsend Brown; Anti-Gravity; Cloaking/Stealth; Philadelphia Experiment; Gravitational Potential/Vector Force; The Scalar Ether; Over-Unity Prototypes

[Ernie Nemeth]

I had my run in with these aliens early in my life. They were grooming me for certain high-level tasks (I've no idea what they were), but I quickly saw through the ruse and quit tuning in to the "station". "They" did not like that much. I'm sure they have manipulated the events in my life since. "They" have since, on occasion, tried recruiting me with "recieved" images and thoughts but their signal is slightly sour and easy to spot.

"They" cannot dupe me and that pisses them off to no end, I'm sure. I've always wondered why they just did not take me out, I mean why mess with my entire life?

By the way, there actually is a connection directly to Source and it cannot be mistaken for anything else. Once you've had that experience "they" are very easy to spot.

[onawah]

The Afterlife Investigations: The Scole Experiments
pQvQ_WTtdHk
Very annoying background music and narrator, but the info is interesting. I've had paranormal experiences that have convinced me it's possible to connect with those on the other side.

Published on Apr 17, 2012

For five years a group of mediums and scientists witnessed more phenomena than in any other experiment in the history of the paranormal, including: recorded conversations with the dead, written messages on sealed film, video of spirit faces and even spirit forms materializing

[Curt]

Great Post. I've enjoyed rereading this thread as there was a ton of stuff I missed the first time around.

:wizard:


I am aware that two other threads have begun on the forum pertaining to the New Age, which I will abbreviate NA if referred to in future postings. I think this is good because the NA has profoundly impacted the last two decades. There is much most of us owe to the pioneers of it and the culture that sprang from it. Like the hippie culture and the alternative press it has been infiltrated deeply. The types who do this will often occupy places of influence. It is how the game is played. It is also where the money to be had is. Please do not make me have to issue a disclaimer after every statement I make. I am counting on people to know I am not speaking in absolutes but generalities. It is how life is. Black and white are the termini for the pendulum swings with most action and reality occurring in between these two points. Who is genuine? By their fruits you will know them.

An interesting kind of black and white scenario germane to this conversation of metaphysics is the concept of tradition.

In the martial arts, it was standard practice, in the East, to have to earn ones way into a school. The concept of proper temperament and appreciation for a time honored practice was very important. There were all kinds of stories of how long and what people did to get accepted into a good school/dojo/dojang/kwoon. To our Western mind this kind of tradition look both ridiculous and abusive. To most of us. My take is that the Eastern and Western attitude about this reflects those points of the pendulum swing I mentioned earlier. I think respect for a good teacher and tradition is something missing from Western culture, but not quite to the degree of washing floors and sleeping at the entrance of the school in Winter. ;) To be sure sons of those with money usually found an easier road because to resist such customers often resulted in "bad luck" for a teacher with integrity. Corruption from the top is not a new phenomenon. Hopefully it will soon be an old one.

This same circumstance of earning entrance to a school pertained to the mystery schools as well. In one instance you were being taught deadly combat skills and in the other you were taught how the cosmos worked. Also, administration skills were also part of this training. What was once considered a rounded classical education came out of these schools minus the esoterica. The Illuminati represent the "dark side" breakaway faction from the bigger Gnostic "Jedi Knights". Indulge me here. It was what are now known as the Illuminati (boo) that through underhandedness, lack of integrity and psychopathic natures, captured the upper hand and have done all they can to keep any challenges as dead as possible. Literally. The Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars of France was the one of the last big battles fought for dominance of Europe and the world.

I'd call that a prologue but it was really just horizontal addressing of the larger subject.

Ok, the emotional body discussion and why it has been a focus as the opener of this thread. We have a subtle anatomy, energetic layers, associated with different mixtures of chakras, that overlay or interpenetrate the physical body. Choosing the most apt term here is a balance between accuracy and understanding. There are good discussions of kundalini in Viveks thread, but in brief there are currents that ascend and descend along the spine. It is very valid to think in terms of a musical scale, if that sort of information speaks to you. A healthy fully fuctioning person will have their notes in harmony with each other. The white notes of a piano are a case in point. The black notes will sound dissonant to varying degrees. Some will add a somber tone and others will be quite unpleasant. This would be the frequency overlay of looking at vibrational health. Now, along with frequency there is also volume or intensity. One could play a scale or sound a chord in such a way as to have one note sound louder than the others. This is a different kind of imbalance. The phrase, "too much of a good thing" is apropos here. The emotional body is one of the notes in our subtle body anatomical system. It gets rung a lot. In the case of media and advertising this is done on purpose. In relationships this is often the case but it is not done on the conscious level as much. Sociopaths tend to consciously carry hammers to smack this part of people.

As I mentioned before subtle bodies and chakras are intimately related. Chakras and the endocrine system are basically interface points between etheric/non-physical subtle anatomy and the physio/chemical body.

Now, for many adults, preexisting conditions pertaining to growing up and the patterns they form haunt us and create patterns of powerlessness that get repeated and become part of our energetic signature. These ongoing experiences reinforce concepts we have about ourselves. They lie in the pain body of the emotional body. These wounds become semi-permanent. We get protective of these soft spots. We seek to protect anymore pressure or hits on these areas. Furthermore, powerlessness makes one want to show they are not, and one step further is the fear of being taken advantage of or made a fool because it only reinforces our powerlessness and that hurts! :doh: This last point is a big contributor to defensiveness.

One manifestation of defensive behavior is to comb through spoken or written words looking for insults and/or slights. This is very self centered behavior. This is a descriptive and not pejorative statement. So, words intended for many can seem directed at the seeker of insults. This is the world of the pain body. One suffers very much alone. It is one of the reasons misery loves company. The isolation is temporarily suspended.

The problem with dominant emotional bodies besides imbalance is they create "noise" in discussions where the mental body is where the action is. The mental body is largely cool and dispassioned. "Did you call me an asshole?" (Yawn) That is where actual words are used. Where the insults are not spoken, not intended or imagined the mental body would not even take notice of them. They are not part of data accumulation. The mental body seeks to build, connect and just ride the air currents of the higher mind. In a forum where the focus is a discussion and exchange of ideas, we are best served by bringing our mental body to the table. Bringing the emotional body is like bringing a child to a dinner party. It might behave, it might get bored and fall asleep or.............. Nuf said?

To close this post let me clarify something. I only discussed the problem of the emotional body and specifically the pain body part of it. The child metaphor was meant to broaden the image somewhat. A healthy and balanced emotional body is a joy to experience. The pulses of energy that radiate from such a person are a delight and can lift a border line depressed person into a better place. Still, feelings are for feeling and not discussing. The wonderful feeling is to be experienced. A few words of how wonderful, nice, good someone feels would suffice. Further discussion would not really work. That's why there is poetry and why so few understand it. :P

With regards to the mental body, I am not lauding it, but simply mentioning it as the best energetic body to bring to a discussion of ideas and concepts. Concepts and ideas translate fairly well into language. Language was invented just for that purpose..........mainly.
In an above post of mine from another thread I mentioned how the descriptions of off planet races generally show different subtle body profiles. The scientists types, not unlike our own, can perform all kinds of painful/invasive procedures and are quite undisturbed or moved by ones discomfort, however extreme. This is a mental body predominance, the empathy that is a function of the emotional body is absent.
The reptilian profile is complicated, probably because it is actually more basic. Somewhat of a paradox.
Then you have what are considered the more advanced races and there we find emotional and mental bodies in harmony. Great intellect coupled with deep empathy. This combination leads to a form of wisdom. Part of having the mental and emotional bodies in harmony is it allows the properties of the higher frequency spiritual body and then causal body to be part of the greater psychological make up. This would be a form of us before "a fall". This is not meant in a religious sense, but our many planetary histories all make mention of one. Golden ages existed before "the fall". This post is an attempt to address problems we as a society need to address to access higher functioning aspects of ourselves. I do it for a better dialogue and understanding of ourselves and each other. Our friends and family need us to be our best. We deserve it and so do they. So does society and the planet. So does the galaxy. We are part of a greater whole and all of the parts need to function well. Optimally if possible. To know thyself is a start.

[apokalypse]

i want to learn and know about Metaphyscis so anyone care to give a name i should search on youtube? what you guys though on Thomas Campbell? is he typical Mainstream academics? i want to look and learn from non-mainstream than Mainstream.