Koran burning hysteria

[yiolas]

How did this BS become a story? I smell a PsyOp

These guys might have a point here . Is this story going to lead somewhere ?


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http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/932.html

[wynderer]

i see this as a massmedia psy-op -- probably TPTB have determined that USA citizens are not hating Muslims enough, & are trying to whip up some more of it

[lightblue]

.


astonishingly wicked, insulting of human nature...won't pass.. l

[Fredkc]

WHY ALL THE HYSTERIA?
Simple...

Every monkey on his patch,
Jumping up and down.
Trying to catch "another" monkey,
Acting like a clown.

It's the usual dance;
Moron #1 plans or does something incredibly stupid.
Moron #2 plans or does something incredibly stupid, too.

Moron #3 runs back and forth between them with a microphone saying,
"Did you hear what he just said? How do you feel about that?"

... and then some commercials, and the process repeats.

Fred

[Shairia]

It's election time in the US and they are trying to play this card big time. Don't buy into this BS.

[HURRITT ENYETO]

I watched this pastor being interviewed and the news man asked him "what about all the death threats and bomb threats made against you"
the pastor reached in his belt and pulled out a hand gun!!!!! only in America i thought :)

[Operator]

... and then some commercials, and the process repeats.

You are so right Fred ... but you forgot to mention that also people will unnecessarily get hurt in the process.

[Enlightenment101]

Well Obama sent in the FBI , good bye freedom of speech, because that is what has happened here

[Operator]

Well Obama sent in the FBI , good bye freedom of speech, because that is what has happened here

There is a difference between freedom of speech and propaganda. I don't want to think black and white here but to make it a bit clear:

- if somebody asks a question or tells something you should be able to respond freely: freedom of speech
- if you go out publicly to push an agenda: propaganda

The koran burning by the way is by itself a statement that Islam may not speak out which is also an act against freedom of speech ... ;)

[Fredkc]

So.. what both sides seem to be saying is...

"In the name of freedom of religion, I come to kill you... over your religion."

And I thought I was confused.
Fred

[Etherios]

So.. what both sides seem to be saying is...

"In the name of freedom of religion, I come to kill you... over your religion."

And I thought I was confused.
Fred

its always been about religions... its on of the major "problem" that was dropped on the human lap to make things worse. Money and Religion i think are the 2 issues that have made man kill each other since ever.

We are been divided and ruled by .... (u think who)

[tone3jaguar]

I want to have a burn any religious text day. Screw religion.

[TigaHawk]

In Australia they just announced that you're pastor dude has stepped down from his promice of going ahead with burk a koran day.

Something along the lines of he talked to someone about the Mosc at Ground 0 and they agreed to move it or the such? Then followed by an interview of the guy he supposidly talked to who said they'd move the Mosc away saying i said nothing of the sort and he's lying

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:


Edit lol - Burk a Koran day, hehehehe

[yiolas]

i see this as a massmedia psy-op -- probably TPTB have determined that USA citizens are not hating Muslims enough, & are trying to whip up some more of it

I agree wynderer, It's morons and little incidents like these that can break the proverbial camel's back. Many large scale confrontations have been started by the likes of such.

I watched the world news tonight on my local Cyprus tv, You would think that the majority of the world's population would be beyond reacting to this imbecile, but I saw a lot of U.S. flag burnings going on. I'm fed up with this tit for tat mentality. The PTB should be very pleased by what is going on.
Tone3 is right, we should have burnt all religious texts years ago.

[Peace of Mind]

It’s all a designed plan. Another ploy to keep the energies low. It's obvious this dude is a phony bigot, He doesn’t even care about the repercussions this will bring. Does he actually think burning a book of faith will make things better? If he was serious about his beliefs, he wouldn’t have any worries because “His God” says “all vengeance will be his”…instead he totes a hand gun and clearly sends the wrong message to his parishioners. He is no true believer, just a demon in disguise.

Mostly all religions are loose translations of the Sumerian Text and have been re-written to trick the masses into living disempowering lives. Religion is for the weak minded and heartless souls whom have no knowledge of self.

The way they keep propagating this 9/11 agenda, and Middle Eastern conflicts is purely poli-tricks and fear mongering. The people are so caught up in this mess they don’t even see what big hypocrites they are becoming. Seeing that all of this is driven by hate, lies, and arrogance…it’s only a matter of time before the truth exposes itself to everyone. You can not keep playing on the emotions of humans just to push an evil agenda. When (not if) the people wake up and realize how they’ve been deceive…there will be some unimaginable punishments placed on the one’s responsible for this whole madness. Mannn, I don’t even want to see what happens to these guys when that day come….but it’s coming without a doubt, especially when you keep polishing the lie every year. Sooner or later that shine will just turn into a faded blemish, due to constant (unneeded) treatment. They are digging their own graves and are too arrogant and blind to see it…

TPTB will be the fools to disclose everything, just like this pastor is exposing himself to the world with his ignorance and obvious hatred.

Everything happens for a reason, although this may seem like a set back and/or travesty…In my mind, this will be part of the bizarre events set to follow aiding in the disclosure most of us so desperately want.

Edit: God works in mysterious ways...

Peace

[Lost Soul]

If he proceeds, he is the idjit he made himself out to be. The media are bigger idjits for giving him the publicity he doesn't deserve.

I just returned from Egypt and had told our guide that every nation has its fringe lunatics and that we are not exempt.

[wynderer]

i'm currently reading an interesting [to me] book, 'Dreaming in Hindi', where i learned that, prior to the fall of the British empire, Muslims & Hindus lived in peace side by side in India -- just as did the Jews & Muslims in what was then called Palestine

then the Brits [acting for the NWO] took it upon themselves to divide these countries along religious &/or language lines, & all hell broke loose -- no doubt a lot of agent provocateurs at work also

then there's this movie -- http://www.amazon.com/Shot-Through-Heart-Linus-Roache/dp/0783111436/ref=cm_lmf_tit_6
i talked to a Croatian man who said that the Sarajevo portrayed at beginning of the movie -- Serbs & Croatians , Muslims & Catholics, living together in peace, was a reality

i try to understand -- do all humans have a deep dark well of hatred & intolerance in them, just waiting for the right conditions to get it out in the open? --

but i think the answer lies in how humans allow themselves to be manipulated -- i am struck by this when i watch documentaries of war [always lots of wars to choose from!] -- & see all the men who volunteer to have their minds brainwashed, to march in step w/each other like robots, to believe that a someone higher up on the pyramidal power structure's orders are more important than one's own conscience, that little voice within that connects one to God -- & standing w/& behind the newest crop of soldiers are their families , friends, mates, all gung-ho for another war

i think David Icke is right, that one of the biggest tools the NWO uses against humans is your fear of being different -- & more & more, i do see how easy it is for those w/the knowledge, to manipulate you

[kcw_one]

What I take from this ridiculous display of an insane corporate media machine churning out the rantings and dumb-ass idiot schemes of yet another insane religious yahoo is that the manipulators are getting really freakin' DESPERATE. Keeping in mind that the segments of the population that are depicted in these media fragments are a terribly small fraction of the total population, most of us see this particular fiasco as farcical and ridiculous. I heard on CBC news radio (I'm Canadian and this is one media outlet I watch to keep a finger on the pulse of the propaganda machine) that there were riotous demonstrations in Afghanistan and other Muslim countries as a result of the people there having gotten word of this crackerjack story about this pastor and his book-burnin plan. The question came to mind of how these people on the other side of the planet were told so widely about something happening in one little place in the US. Or, more importantly, how they got the idea that it should somehow MATTER to them. Is some fruitcake burning a few books really that much of an affront to a religion? I figured that it was the teachings that mattered, not the paper they are written on.

It's clear to me that we are seeing yet another scheme to produce divisions amongst the population, and I think far too much attention is being paid to this silly display of hatred and intolerance. Freedom of speech is good and all, but the media bears the blame for shouting it from the rooftops and carrying this guys message around the world. I think it would be far more appropriate for people to quietly ignore the "free speech" of haters like this.

[wynderer]

What I take from this ridiculous display of an insane corporate media machine churning out the rantings and dumb-ass idiot schemes of yet another insane religious yahoo is that the manipulators are getting really freakin' DESPERATE. Keeping in mind that the segments of the population that are depicted in these media fragments are a terribly small fraction of the total population, most of us see this particular fiasco as farcical and ridiculous. I heard on CBC news radio (I'm Canadian and this is one media outlet I watch to keep a finger on the pulse of the propaganda machine) that there were riotous demonstrations in Afghanistan and other Muslim countries as a result of the people there having gotten word of this crackerjack story about this pastor and his book-burnin plan. The question came to mind of how these people on the other side of the planet were told so widely about something happening in one little place in the US. Or, more importantly, how they got the idea that it should somehow MATTER to them. Is some fruitcake burning a few books really that much of an affront to a religion? I figured that it was the teachings that mattered, not the paper they are written on.

It's clear to me that we are seeing yet another scheme to produce divisions amongst the population, and I think far too much attention is being paid to this silly display of hatred and intolerance. Freedom of speech is good and all, but the media bears the blame for shouting it from the rooftops and carrying this guys message around the world. I think it would be far more appropriate for people to quietly ignore the "free speech" of haters like this.

if the CBC is equivalent to the BBC, NBC, CNN --any of the massmedia outlets, i'd take their 'news' coverage of riots & demonstrations w/a big grain of salt -- they've been caught w/their pants down re such 'news' before -- the toppling of Sadam Hussein's statue comes immediately to mind

[ascendingstarseed]

Psyops would be giving this wackodoodle too much credit when he's just a religious freak getting his 15minutes in the spotlight by using terror tactics. Jones is a cult leader who was kicked out of Germany for "spiritual abuse"! To garner attention he gets on the latest hate craze, like the gay bashing bandwagon which he rode for awhile.

This guy is a typical cult leader who believes God speaks to him, his rule book dictates followers can't talk to family or friends, they can't date other parishioner's, they can't question his teachings...typical cult stuff. Which also goes to show how pathetic the lamestream media is that they even give a cult leader airtime. It's all the end result of the right wing leadership and the media ginning up the summer of hate into a frenzy, so this wackjob is hoping to capitalize off it. And the Republican's go along with it!

We need to drop this guy off in Kabul with 200 Quran's, a Zippo lighter and tell him put his money where his mouth is...bet he'd change his tune.

[wynderer]

Psyops would be giving this wackodoodle too much credit when he's just a religious freak getting his 15minutes in the spotlight by using terror tactics. Jones is a cult leader who was kicked out of Germany for "spiritual abuse"! To garner attention he gets on the latest hate craze, like the gay bashing bandwagon which he rode for awhile.

This guy is a typical cult leader who believes God speaks to him, his rule book dictates followers can't talk to family or friends, they can't date other parishioner's, they can't question his teachings...typical cult stuff. Which also goes to show how pathetic the lamestream media is that they even give a cult leader airtime. It's all the end result of the right wing leadership and the media ginning up the summer of hate into a frenzy, so this wackjob is hoping to capitalize off it. And the Republican's go along with it!

We need to drop this guy off in Kabul with 200 Quran's, a Zippo lighter and tell him put his money where his mouth is...bet he'd change his tune.

it's a psyops, imo, because of all the media attention; because, at least on the MSN homepage, my unavoidable massmedia exposure, the headline said that the Pentagon was concerned [??? since when is the Pentagon a human rights organization]; & because here we are , giving it our attention as planned -- & in sheeple's minds, the idea of/the connection w/ violence against Muslims is strengthened [as it is also in your post]

[Rhiannon]

i found this issue of the corbett report most interesting:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV56P159egU

[Enlightenment101]

There is a difference between freedom of speech and propaganda. I don't want to think black and white here but to make it a bit clear:

- if somebody asks a question or tells something you should be able to respond freely: freedom of speech
- if you go out publicly to push an agenda: propaganda


The koran burning by the way is by itself a statement that Islam may not speak out which is also an act against freedom of speech ... ;)

ITS ALL PROPAGANDA, look who is behind it YOU have the CIA involved in a front involving ground zero, you have to look into who is involved in buying that land there

[Ba-ba-Ra]

On the news I saw that this 'preacher' only has 50 members in his church. So why do you think a man with a 50-member following was even given a news conference! hmmm, wonder what's going on that they don't want us to notice. I did take the focus off the economy. Do they ever report that approx 20 banks a month go under in the U.S. or that the FDIC is running out of money and economically sound banks to absorb these banks that are going down. As most on this site realize, we can't follow their bouncing ball, we have to do our own research.

Keep searching and posting - and have some fun and laugh inbetween.

[wynderer]

another take on the USA & Muslims

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=52797

Thousands Rally for Islamic Centre on 9/11 Anniversary
By Haider Rizvi


NEW YORK, Sep 12, 2010 (IPS) - If you think that most citizens of the United States are racist or anti-Muslim, perhaps you have been relying too much on television news , especially the shows produced by the private networks in the United States.

On the ninth anniversary of the tragic events of Sep. 11, thousands of New Yorkers took to the streets of the downtown financial district to call for peace and harmony among all communities and to denounce hatred against people of any faith.

Among them were Jews, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, atheists, communists, anarchists, and, of course, Muslim men and women, who marched in the streets near the site where the World Trade Centre towers once stood.

"You see, this is New York. You saw that demonstration, and you saw this one too," said Saeed Shabazz, a long-time observer of U.S. domestic politics who covers the United Nations for the Final Call weekly newspaper. He was referring to a second, nearby gathering Saturday opposing the widely-publicised plan to build an Islamic community centre, known as Park51, near the fallen World Trade Centre towers site.

"That rally is nothing compared to this one, I mean in terms of numbers," Shabazz said.

Those who opposed Park51 – arguing that the location of the centre showed insensitivity - came out in the hundreds. The New Yorkers who supported Park51, following a call by the International Action Center that was joined by scores of groups, turned out in the thousands.

The police kept the rallies at a distance, but failed to prevent participants from shouting at each other, with people on both sides arguing loudly in favour of and against the centre.

"No mosque here. No mosque here," chanted the latter crowd, an overwhelming majority of them white.

A few blocks away, demonstrators of all ethnic and religious backgrounds chanted slogans against racism.

"We want jobs and justice in this country, not racism and war," said Ibrahim, who is in his 20s. "The real way to end war in Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere demands nothing but peace."

Standing next to him, 50-year-old Annette Rovinsky, who said she had never taken part in a demonstration before, agreed with Ibrahim. "The opposition to the mosque building is an insult to the people who died in the 9/11 attacks. Many of them were Muslims, you know," she noted.

But for 52-year-old Samantha, who is not originally from New York, that line of reasoning is unacceptable. "If the powers behind this centre want to build a mosque, they should move somewhere else," she said. Asked if she had lost any family member during 9/11 attacks, she said "no".

In Shabazz's view, the movement against the centre is a sign that fomenting racism and fear is still a strategy of the political elites in the United States.

The centre has been opposed by conservative Republicans such as Sarah Palin, Rick Lazio, and Newt Gingrich, who had agreed to speak at Saturday's anti-Park51 rally but later pulled out.

"This is definitely related to the upcoming election campaign," Shabazz said, referring to the Republicans' bid to win back the House of Representatives and the Senate, which they lost to the Democrats in the 2008 elections.

Among others, the anti-Park51 rally was addressed by the former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations and far-right Republican leader John Bolton, and Geert Wilders, a conservative politician from the Netherlands who believes that Islam is comparable with fascism.

The demonstrations took place amid reports that a Florida pastor, Terry Jones, might or might not carry out his plan to burn copies of Quran, the holy book of Muslims, whose faith is embraced by more than 1.5 billion people across the world.

For their part, both U.S. President Barack Obama and U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon strongly condemned Jones's threat to burn the Quran. The U.N. said such an act would be "abhorrent". Under tremendous pressure from the U.S. government, the pastor indicated Friday that he would not burn the holy book.

The U.N. has been hesitant, however, to wade into the fray over the community centre, although the world body has long championed building bridges among different faiths and religions.

"It's a local issue," Marc Scheuer of the U.N. Alliance of Civilisations told IPS at the first anti-community centre rally last week. "We cannot dictate what the practical outcome should be."

He said the U.N. is not part of this controversy, but added, "This debate should not be abused."

The Alliance was formed by the former U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan to explore the roots of polarisation between societies and cultures, and to recommend a practical programme of action to address this issue.

Under the Obama administration, as a member state of the U.N., the U.S. has become part of the Alliance.

Scheuer said religious leaders should come together to reduce tensions and suggest alternative solutions and urged the media to introduce "what we call the third voice in a polarised debate".

But some watchdog groups argue that to a large extent the media itself is to blame for growing inter-faith hostility in the United States and beyond its borders.

"It's largely a media story," said Steve Randall, a senior researcher at Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, a media watchdog in New York, about the lingering controversy over Park51.

"Watch the CNN and Fox [TV]," he said. "There is anti-Arab Islamophobia in the U.S. media."

Does it have something to do with the upcoming election? "Absolutely," he replied. "That is why they are adopting the language of hatred."

[RedeZra]

it's no secret that TPTB wants a war between Christianity and Islam


so I'm not gonna join then since I'm human


if they play the war of the worlds card

I'm also out since I am a soul


there is no war worthwhile but the battle of the soul

and that is fought face to face and one-on-one

[Fredkc]

Remember back in school they held fire drills.?
They did this so they could both teach people how to react, and identify those who hadn't accepted the training.

"This has been a test of the Emergency Orwell Hate Session Stimulus Program."

The American people, and press came through with flying colors.
The next time we bomb/invade some nuisance that didn't do a damned thing to us:
50% will stand up and cheer.
40% will sit quietly and wonder if they should have an opinion for 10 years.
5% will say we are, once again, committing a war crime, and be called traitors for it.

5% will spend the next ten years arguing whether we were lied to, before we began the war crimes. It's easier than trying to stop the war crimes. Besides, being called a 'nut' is easier to take than being called a 'traitor'.

"It may be the American people are no longer educated, or interested enough to sustain a free society." - Paul Craig Roberts

I followed the link in post #1. There is a woman there I hold in very high respect; Karen Kwiatowski (http://www.mo911truth.org/#Kwiatkowski).

For 8 years, Karen has called things straight. She has also kept her eye on the real issue; NOT what happened on 9/11, but HAS happened from 9/12 on.

She has documented the doings that show, regardless of who did 9/11 it was planned for!
Try her 3-part story of how it was done; Inside Rumsfeld's Shop (http://fredsitelive.com/reference/war1.htm)
Try the fact that the planning for Iraq began in the White House, on Jan 30, 2001. Ten days after the last administration took office.
Or the fact the Pentagon was circulating maps of western Iraq, showing deployment schemes, and possible plans for dividing up the "new oil finds" there, as early as March, 2001.
That the US govt had no problems with the Taliban, or Al Qaeda until the Taliban turned down a Unocal deal for a pipeline through Afghanistan.

9/11 was the beginning of nothing!
It was the end of the planning stage, and the beginning of implementation. 9/11 wasn't the crime. The crime is what is still happening.

Look at it this way:
If we were still arguing whether or not it was German soldiers in Polish uniforms that created the incident that resulted in Germany's invasion of Poland, then Nazi Germany would still be marching Gypsies, Jews, etc into ovens (if they hadn't run out of them).

Or:
If we were still arguing over the Gulf Of Tonkin incident, Americans would still be killing and dieing in Vietnam.

And it sure as hell wasn't "THE Truth about the Gulf Of Tonkin that stopped the killing there, either. It was the people standing up and saying "This is enough! It stops now!" that got it done.

You can argue 9/11 for another 10 years, if you like. No one is ever going to see a jail cell over it. But an awful lot of people will see family in coffins. Needlessly.

No one involved in government, from either political party is ever going to stop this. There is nothing you can show them, that will force them to stop. The absolute proof what came after 9/11 was planned well before then has existed since Mid-2002.

Government is never going to review decisions made "because of 9/11", because there were none. The decisions were already made. The issue is what we have been doing since then, and what we are doing now! This IS what they planned on. It is working perfectly, and would have been done with or without a 9/11 event.

Anyway.... rant ends. Carry on
Fred

[frank samuel]

For those that never had to kill another human being in their lives , their lives goes on but for many of the military men and women who have and those on the other side who defended themselves war overall have been a heart breaker. These young men and women go to bed with the ghost of the battle field knowing that few would ever understand how they feel. The activist cry for peace brought the government to action and the soldier to his knees seeking forgiveness for the innocent kill unjustly in the line of fire. There's is no enemies in the battle field just victims of mad man , politicians who's only concern is power and dollars and cents.

I have a dream that someday soon peace can become a reality and the ghost that haunt my dreams can finally rest in peace, if only for a moment . The Muslim those mothers and fathers whose children we have kill, cry for justice and ask why ? Here the ignorant reply by burning their Holy books as to say we don't care. Well yes we do and soon someday soon this nightmare will end and to his knees once again the soldier befalls asking for forgiveness, hoping for a good night rest that never comes for they will forever be haunted by the ghost of the innocent.

Many many blessings to all.

[greybeard]

Dear Frank
my heart goes out to you and all who have had similar experiences.
By coincidence last night I watched the movie The Mission" where innocent indian children and Jesuits were slaughtered, and their church burned at the order of those seeking power land and money.
Heart breaking.
Yet love of God triumphed in a way.
Those who died for the love of God live for the living dead.
Ghandi a prime example of what can be achieved through non violence and the love of God.
I believe your dream is true Frank.
Those who choose to believe such dreams live truly as God intended.
Much love and appreciation for you Frank
Chris

[Lucrum]

This is indeed a very sad story, and seeing how well it works on people around me is not a nice thing to watch.

All parties talk about respect and honor, yet none of them knows what those words mean. Everyone act like respect and honor is one sided. Is it really?

I hope I'm on the right path when claiming respect and honor to be something far greater than simple agreement or disagreement over simple notions that there is only one correct path in life.
Respect is achieved when all parties involved can acknowledge their differences and realize that there is no need to fight.
It is then honor in upholding that respect and live peacefully side by side, despite the differences that divide our minds.

My wish for the future is to see the true meaning of these words unfold

[wynderer]

Remember back in school they held fire drills.?
They did this so they could both teach people how to react, and identify those who hadn't accepted the training.

"This has been a test of the Emergency Orwell Hate Session Stimulus Program."

The American people, and press came through with flying colors.
The next time we bomb/invade some nuisance that didn't do a damned thing to us:
50% will stand up and cheer.
40% will sit quietly and wonder if they should have an opinion for 10 years.
5% will say we are, once again, committing a war crime, and be called traitors for it.

5% will spend the next ten years arguing whether we were lied to, before we began the war crimes. It's easier than trying to stop the war crimes. Besides, being called a 'nut' is easier to take than being called a 'traitor'.

"It may be the American people are no longer educated, or interested enough to sustain a free society." - Paul Craig Roberts

I followed the link in post #1. There is a woman there I hold in very high respect; Karen Kwiatowski (http://www.mo911truth.org/#Kwiatkowski).

For 8 years, Karen has called things straight. She has also kept her eye on the real issue; NOT what happened on 9/11, but HAS happened from 9/12 on.

She has documented the doings that show, regardless of who did 9/11 it was planned for!
Try her 3-part story of how it was done; Inside Rumsfeld's Shop (http://fredsitelive.com/reference/war1.htm)
Try the fact that the planning for Iraq began in the White House, on Jan 30, 2001. Ten days after the last administration took office.
Or the fact the Pentagon was circulating maps of western Iraq, showing deployment schemes, and possible plans for dividing up the "new oil finds" there, as early as March, 2001.
That the US govt had no problems with the Taliban, or Al Qaeda until the Taliban turned down a Unocal deal for a pipeline through Afghanistan.

9/11 was the beginning of nothing!
It was the end of the planning stage, and the beginning of implementation. 9/11 wasn't the crime. The crime is what is still happening.

Look at it this way:
If we were still arguing whether or not it was German soldiers in Polish uniforms that created the incident that resulted in Germany's invasion of Poland, then Nazi Germany would still be marching Gypsies, Jews, etc into ovens (if they hadn't run out of them).

Or:
If we were still arguing over the Gulf Of Tonkin incident, Americans would still be killing and dieing in Vietnam.

And it sure as hell wasn't "THE Truth about the Gulf Of Tonkin that stopped the killing there, either. It was the people standing up and saying "This is enough! It stops now!" that got it done.

You can argue 9/11 for another 10 years, if you like. No one is ever going to see a jail cell over it. But an awful lot of people will see family in coffins. Needlessly.

No one involved in government, from either political party is ever going to stop this. There is nothing you can show them, that will force them to stop. The absolute proof what came after 9/11 was planned well before then has existed since Mid-2002.

Government is never going to review decisions made "because of 9/11", because there were none. The decisions were already made. The issue is what we have been doing since then, and what we are doing now! This IS what they planned on. It is working perfectly, and would have been done with or without a 9/11 event.

Anyway.... rant ends. Carry on
Fred

a really good post, imo, Fred

when 'Shock & Awe' began, about 20 of us in the small town where i was living held a vigil for peace outside the courthouse every Saturday morning-- most of the passers-by in cars shouted rude things to us, including the eff-word & giving us the finger, even tho there were children w/us

in another post [couldn't find it] Frank S gave me one clue as to why in almost any war that the NWO gets going, most of the participating countries' citizens enthusiastically support it -- Frank was talking about how 'basic training' addresses & demolishes the recruits' FEAR -- replacing it w/unthinking obedience [my understanding -- of course all the weapons they are taught to use help w/the fear too, i imagine -- i've shot some guns in my life, & know the feeling of power they give] -- humans apparently really are a very fearful species

another reason for why there is so much support for war, any war, is that regrettable herd/mob mentality of humans -- the great fear of being different that David Icke talks about --like in Jerzy Kosinski's novel, 'The Painted Bird', & the story that the title came from -- a warning of what happens to humans who are different

from Wikipedia:

'The book title was drawn from an incident within its content. The boy, while in the company of a professional bird catcher, observes how the man took one of his captured birds and painted it several colors. Then he released the bird to fly in search of a flock of its kin, but when it came upon them, they saw it as an intruder and tore at the bird until it fell from the sky.'

here's a link to some present-day heroes & heroines, who are braving the ridicule, & jail time, to follow their own convictions

http://www.couragetoresist.org/x/

[yiolas]

I think 'The Truther Girls' say it best



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiE_wYGptgA&feature=sub

[Zook]

Hi Fred,



Remember back in school they held fire drills.?
They did this so they could both teach people how to react, and identify those who hadn't accepted the training.

"This has been a test of the Emergency Orwell Hate Session Stimulus Program."

The American people, and press came through with flying colors.
The next time we bomb/invade some nuisance that didn't do a damned thing to us:
50% will stand up and cheer.
40% will sit quietly and wonder if they should have an opinion for 10 years.
5% will say we are, once again, committing a war crime, and be called traitors for it.

5% will spend the next ten years arguing whether we were lied to, before we began the war crimes. It's easier than trying to stop the war crimes. Besides, being called a 'nut' is easier to take than being called a 'traitor'.


Gulf of Tonkin happened in newspapers in print-time.
Vietnam may have only had 5% core dissenters.
Vietnam happened in a distant land.
Vietnam happened during the transitional era of sexual liberation, civil and human rights, gender rights, etc.; barely removed from the influence and iconic innocence of "Leave It To Beaver"; frontal nudity being a full-brown affront.

9/11/2001 happened live on TV in realtime.
9/11/2001 has anywhere between 33%-50% core dissenters.
9/11/2001 happened in the heart of the American financial and military districts.
9/11/2001 happened in the post-transition era where Viagra and Cialis commercials are prime time adverts and mere frontal nudity is practically prudish.

Those are key differences that delineate the sheeple of today from the sheeple of yesterday. Those sheeple munched on prepared grass and their bleats did not carry beyond the pasture. These sheeple munch on wild grass and our bleats carry around the planet. What am I getting at? Critical mass. During the Vietnam era, 5% core dissension was well below critical mass and there were no practical avenues to arrive at critical mass. By contrast, in the 9/11/2001 era, 33-50% core dissension is well within proximity of critical mass, and there are many avenues to arrive at critical mass. But what is this critical mass, you may rightfully ask? Excellent question. In my understanding, critical mass is that triggerpoint when truth, fairness, and justice all converge at the required level to transduce the latent energy of "people getting screwed and taking it" into the released and healing energy of "people not taking it anymore".

In America, there was a previous transduction in 1776 (when the overtaxed colonials of the time stared down the British Crown and exclaimed, "Enough is enough!"). With that in mind, I view the shifting of focus away from the truth of 9/11/2001 ... as an attempt (wittingly or unwittingly) against critical mass, e.g. against the healing energy.



"It may be the American people are no longer educated, or interested enough to sustain a free society." - Paul Craig Roberts


Quite possibly true; and shifting focus away from the truth of 9/11/2001 is not going to make the American people any more educated, or any more interested in sustaining a free society.



I followed the link in post #1. There is a woman there I hold in very high respect; Karen Kwiatowski (http://www.mo911truth.org/#Kwiatkowski).

For 8 years, Karen has called things straight. She has also kept her eye on the real issue; NOT what happened on 9/11, but HAS happened from 9/12 on.

She has documented the doings that show, regardless of who did 9/11 it was planned for!
Try her 3-part story of how it was done; Inside Rumsfeld's Shop (http://fredsitelive.com/reference/war1.htm)
Try the fact that the planning for Iraq began in the White House, on Jan 30, 2001. Ten days after the last administration took office.
Or the fact the Pentagon was circulating maps of western Iraq, showing deployment schemes, and possible plans for dividing up the "new oil finds" there, as early as March, 2001.
That the US govt had no problems with the Taliban, or Al Qaeda until the Taliban turned down a Unocal deal for a pipeline through Afghanistan.

9/11 was the beginning of nothing!
It was the end of the planning stage, and the beginning of implementation. 9/11 wasn't the crime. The crime is what is still happening.


I don't follow the logic above, Fred. I mean, you correctly understand the preparation and the execution (leave alone the fact that Al Qaeda and Taliban are CIA/MI6/Mossad front organizations that would effectively disappear as a paramilitary force if the CIA/MI6/Mossad stopped funding them; take the milktit away and the baby cries, and cries, and cries itself to sleep). But then you casually dismiss the connecting point between the preparation and the execution. Specifically, the endpoint of the preparation which is also the beginning point of the execution. To wit, 9/11/2001 is the connecting point and is, therefore, part in parcel of the crime. Any part of the crime has the potential to yield the criminal (I'm sure we can agree on this).



Look at it this way:
If we were still arguing whether or not it was German soldiers in Polish uniforms that created the incident that resulted in Germany's invasion of Poland, then Nazi Germany would still be marching Gypsies, Jews, etc into ovens (if they hadn't run out of them).
Or:
If we were still arguing over the Gulf Of Tonkin incident, Americans would still be killing and dieing in Vietnam.
And it sure as hell wasn't "THE Truth about the Gulf Of Tonkin that stopped the killing there, either. It was the people standing up and saying "This is enough! It stops now!" that got it done.


What do you want us to do, Fred? Stop screaming about 9/11/2001 and start screaming about Iraq? Stop screaming about Bush and start screaming about Obama? And what will that get us? How do you propose we bring about significant change in the way things are done ... by moving our vocal cords from one issue to the next issue to the next issue yet? With all due respect, that's the perfect recipe for compliance.



You can argue 9/11 for another 10 years, if you like. No one is ever going to see a jail cell over it. But an awful lot of people will see family in coffins. Needlessly.
No one involved in government, from either political party is ever going to stop this. There is nothing you can show them, that will force them to stop. The absolute proof what came after 9/11 was planned well before then has existed since Mid-2002.
Government is never going to review decisions made "because of 9/11", because there were none. The decisions were already made. The issue is what we have been doing since then, and what we are doing now! This IS what they planned on. It is working perfectly, and would have been done with or without a 9/11 event.

Anyway.... rant ends. Carry on
Fred

In your paradigm, perhaps that is so. Things will never change. Que sera sera. Sheeple will continue to munch prepared grass and be herded into fenced pastures for wool or for slaughter. Fortunately, there exist other less fatalistic paradigms. The paradigm of critical mass - with its tireless pounding on the drums of 9/11/2001 - offers humanity hope, whereas the existing paradigm of nomadic vocal cords offers none. I really wish you would reconsider the efficacy of your paradigm, Fred.


Cheers
Uncle Zook

[Rocky_Shorz]

actually, the most important Qu'ran burning has already happened, in one of the Holiest mosque in Iran...

1335 years after it was first worshiped, a veil that separates the men from woman caught fire and torched a few pages of the Holy book...

Iran calls itself religious but getting a message from God in front of thousands of worshipers changed nothing.

If Muhammad visited today... They'd put him to death...

If you read the end of Daniel, the 1335 might make a little more sense...

[wynderer]

I think 'The Truther Girls' say it best



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiE_wYGptgA&feature=sub

thanks for introducing me to the Truther Girls!

[yiolas]

Your welcome Wynderer,
They always have a condensed, cut through the BS take on things.

[Sarahmay]

Bill Maher said something funny the other night. Paraphrasing: Most Americans don't care if you burn the Bible, burn a whole bonfire of them...but if you burned our new holy book, "Eat, Pray, Love" there would be riots.

[Fredkc]

Once you've burned the Constitution, everything else is just prologue.

Fred