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Arrowwind
8th January 2013, 20:05
Tutu says:

“The God that I worship is an omnipotent God,” Tutu intoned, opening his arms wide. He paused to let this sink in. Then he said, sotto voce, “He is also incredibly, totally impotent.

The God that I worship is almighty, and also incredibly weak.
“He can sit there and watch me make a wrong choice. Now, if I was God,” he said as the hall burst into laughter, “and I saw, for instance, this one is going to make a choice that is going to destroy his family, I’d probably snuff him out.

“But the glory of God is actually mind-blowing. He can sit and not intervene because he has such an incredible, incredible reverence for my autonomy. He is prepared to let me go to hell. Freely. Rather than compel me to go to heaven.

“He weeps when he sees us do the things that we do to one another. But he does not send lightning bolts to destroy the ungodly. And that is fantastic. God says, ‘I can’t force you. I beg you, please for your own sake, make the right choice. I beg you.’

“When you do the right thing, God forgets about God’s divine dignity and he rushes and embraces you. ‘You came back, you came back. I love you. Oh how wonderful, you came back.’”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/07/god-is-not-a-christian-tutu-dalai-lama_n_2421553.html



So the other day I was visiting with a friend.. a patriot and a Catholic. I was telling him how when discussing the urgency of people to take action in the USA to re-setablish our constitution to another Christain friend, that friend replied that he could only put our fates into the hands of God.

I told this to my patriot Catholic friend.. and here is what he said.

he said tell your friend this...

Someday you will stand before the pearly gates and want to enter and think that you should for you have put your life and your actions into the hands of God.

But now God speaks and God says... No. No. You have not been a good christian. I gave you this great land called America. I gave you the very best, better than any other land on the earth .. and this was my test to you. I gave you the best and you let it fall by the wayside and let evil reign. You did nothing to maintain this great gift I gave to you.

You had the power to stand up and fight for freedom, to fight for your constitution as so many others had died for but you did not even try. You say you put it into my hands but I told you in the bibile that the money changers must be thrown out. That I had come with a sword and you did not follow my example.

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword"

Now you have failed my test and I have no room for you here.


Isiah 49:2 He made my mouth like a sharpened sword. In the shadow of his hand he hid me. He made me into a polished arrow and concealed me in his quiver.

WyoSeeker
8th January 2013, 22:49
So God gave America to the Christians? That whole 30 million dead, genocide, destruction of a free people thing he did to his native children was just a gift to the white europeans then?

And how about that quote at the end?!? "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword" That's some crazy war-mongering god there!

I rather think the All-Loving, Omnipotent God Tutu was talking about is closer to the truth, and wept when the native north americans were destroyed by the invading white europeans. And is weeping at the idea that people attribute quotes like the one above to Her/Him.

Carmody
8th January 2013, 23:13
The bible was written by men.

In some cases, interpreted and re-interpreted by other, more foolish men.

they are like children, passing a message down the seats, through the school bus.

Their message is horrendously garbled and bears no resemblance in intent or meaning -to the original.

RedSnow
9th January 2013, 00:32
error...;)

Arrowwind
9th January 2013, 00:36
So God gave America to the Christians? That whole 30 million dead, genocide, destruction of a free people thing he did to his native children was just a gift to the white europeans then?
And how about that quote at the end?!? "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword" That's some crazy war-mongering god there!
I rather think the All-Loving, Omnipotent God Tutu was talking about is closer to the truth, and wept when the native north americans were destroyed by the invading white europeans. And is weeping at the idea that people attribute quotes like the one above to Her/Him.\
So get real. God did not give America to the Chrisitans. He gave it to anyone who is here. People have had the opporutnity every day to combat repression and promote freedom.. even back in the days of Columbus. You absolutley miss the point and you dont get what Desmond Tutu said nor the implications of it.
If you want a great world you must stand up for it, not sit on your hands and just expect it to happen. God doesnt control you nor does god make the world "right"
Only people with compassion, good will and the ability to put evil in its place can make the world better.

If you dont stand up for freedom for yourself and for all people you will lose it. the dragon will burn you alive if you dont slay it.

mosquito
9th January 2013, 01:39
and the Dalai Lama fits into this saga where exactly ??

bram
9th January 2013, 02:34
and the Dalai Lama fits into this saga where exactly ??

I think the Dalai lama just smiled and nodded his head...

;)

bram
9th January 2013, 02:41
Tutu says:

“The God that I worship is an omnipotent God,” Tutu intoned, opening his arms wide. He paused to let this sink in. Then he said, sotto voce, “He is also incredibly, totally impotent.

The God that I worship is almighty, and also incredibly weak.
“He can sit there and watch me make a wrong choice. Now, if I was God,” he said as the hall burst into laughter, “and I saw, for instance, this one is going to make a choice that is going to destroy his family, I’d probably snuff him out.

“But the glory of God is actually mind-blowing. He can sit and not intervene because he has such an incredible, incredible reverence for my autonomy. He is prepared to let me go to hell. Freely. Rather than compel me to go to heaven.

“He weeps when he sees us do the things that we do to one another. But he does not send lightning bolts to destroy the ungodly. And that is fantastic. God says, ‘I can’t force you. I beg you, please for your own sake, make the right choice. I beg you.’

“When you do the right thing, God forgets about God’s divine dignity and he rushes and embraces you. ‘You came back, you came back. I love you. Oh how wonderful, you came back.’”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/07/god-is-not-a-christian-tutu-dalai-lama_n_2421553.html


Desmond Tutu might well be a nice old guy and all, but like so many Christians he completely misunderstands the force that he calls God. The oneness, the unnamable and undescribable.

I once read somewhere that a wise man, watching children playing on the floor does not care about their games because he knows they are unimportant. However the children are completely absorbed in their games as if they were real, they get angry, they cry, they hoop with joy..........we are those children, this illusory life is our game, you can say that the wise man is your "God".

Ol' Roy
9th January 2013, 04:48
I am sorry Arrowind, that your friend has stanch beliefs. I was raised Catholic, and my beliefs have changed through the decades.

In your quotes, you did not say who says what, whether TuTu or the Dali Lama. Really it could be interchanged.

All I want to say is, I believe in a all knowing God! Something out there created this whole mess(thing).

panopticon
9th January 2013, 05:31
Thanks for linking to the article (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/07/god-is-not-a-christian-tutu-dalai-lama_n_2421553.html) Arrowwind.
I really enjoyed reading it.
There should be more laughter in the world.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

sineck
9th January 2013, 09:13
(these words are beneficial for man and inspired by God), i believe it goes something like that, dont have my bible in hand but i read it once or twice, i believe that many folk out there have a misunderstanding of the scriptures, ,,, the word inspiration has a simple definition, it does not mean written by, it was conjured up from the recesses of man to comply with his ideas and needs of understanding them,..peace S

Arrowwind
9th January 2013, 15:03
(these words are beneficial for man and inspired by God), i believe it goes something like that, dont have my bible in hand but i read it once or twice, i believe that many folk out there have a misunderstanding of the scriptures, ,,, the word inspiration has a simple definition, it does not mean written by, it was conjured up from the recesses of man to comply with his ideas and needs of understanding them,..peace S

Exactly. It is a conjure and you can be assured that that word people will react to that word too.
Desmond Tutu understands this completley. He also understands free will and free volition and that god does not interfere.
If we have a problem here on this earth it is the problem of man, for mans ignorance, or man's negligence, or man's inablility to cope. God does not create our problems nor does God save us from our problems. Its all our own very personal creation and our interplay amongst each other that creates it all.

Hence Isiah say that his mouth is the sword of god and speaks creation and he is hidden in the palm of god, for he is an extension of god, that divine creative force. and Isiah says he is the arrow of god within gods quiver, for god created the quiver (physical reality) and Isiah is the cohesive intent (arrow) within that creation (quiver, physical reality)

Now Im no foreigner to the concept of the arrow. It is a directed force applied with percision intention designed to slay the oponent weather physical or ideological.

Only though humanity will we save ourselves, only though our individual actions to hold the forces of evil in check. We are our redeemers, not a god in the sky but that which moves though us, the power of god shaped and formed by our individual attentions, our arrow of focus to see a deed done.

So if all those Christians out there keep waiting for a redeemer, or whatever religion they may be of, they will waite until they fall into thier graves for they have put the power of god outside of themselves and hence cut themselves off from their source, and divorced themselves from the responsibilty of intending our creation through action.

Nat_Lee
10th January 2013, 01:51
and the Dalai Lama fits into this saga where exactly ??


... In your quotes, you did not say who says what, whether TuTu or the Dali Lama. Really it could be interchanged...

I'm wondering the same thing dear Arrowind ?
Thank you !

;)