Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

[9eagle9]

Their mind.

Envy and their mind.

The right mind and the left(their mind) mind.

The difference between the left mind and the right mind.

What they do with their mind that we think is ours.

What do we do with their mind.


Denying we have their mind helps their mind remain your mind.




Part 1. The mind they gave us.

Emotional marker. Envy. Envy is a symptom of lack, want and need. Poverty Consciousness is more correct term for 'their' mind.
.
Envy is the basis of theft. People want, need, or lack so badly they have to steal. Usually power. Not outright theft like stealing from the liquor store but high jacking power.

That's that the powers that be do. But then again, so do we. Because we have their mind.

In our natural state we are very hard to steal from. Some people know what I’m talking about. The people who are hard to steal from. They make you work at it. They frustrate you because the mind that was given to us mind has been conditioned to having power being given away. When you make their mind work for something..ooo boy. Work may entail thinking, refraining from and a plethora of other things 'their' mind hates mostly being in your right mind.

That is a person’s natural state to be unaffected by things like that. It is a natural state to be in your right mind.

The unnatural state is to have their mind. That’s painful, for us, to have their mind. Because that is what their mind is for...to create pain. Or any other extreme unhealthy emotion. That is their energy feed, emotion.

Like feel good over something that doesn’t exist. If you feel good about a flight of ufo's coming back to earth to take over everything for you ask your right mind, what you are experiencing that should cause you to feel that way. What lack, want or loss of authority have you suffered that that scenario makes you feel good. Your right mind may say, you can't stand to be corrected now, what state will you be in if an army of 'right' minds lands to correct you?

Their mind will just tell you its a feel good idea because it always finds something else having control over you appealing. If you are hard to control it may invite in some buddies. (See Horus Ra thread).


The archetype of the powers that be are based on envy. We have something they lack. This is why there is an us and a them. Lack produces envy.

The have and have nots.

But…WE all have the same thing. Their minds. No matter how virtuous and superior we feel in our feel good…we have their minds.

We tend to think they are the haves, and we think we are the have nots. And so do they. Because if we have their minds we have the same minds as them so we tend to operate the same way.

Materially speaking they seem to have it all. But if they had it all why would they feel compelled to give us their minds? Charity? No that is HOW they have it all. We have something they want. They don’t take it though, we give it away. By agreeing to co-habit their mind.

By agreement. We agree to do it. Simply by not doing anything about it.

If someone is ill they do something about it. Take medicine, see a doctor, etc.

If someone bleeds they do something about it. Get a tourniquet, get a bandaid.

If you had a gigantic feeding growth on you, you’d do something about it.

People with their mind don’t do anything about it. Their mind tells them not to that everything is just fine the way it is and its really only because people are (angry, mean and unloving ) when they point that perhaps you have something feeding on you.

Alas even a person with 'their' mind will tell another fellow swimmer they have a leech on them. It is an entirely different matter when we are told we have a leech on us. What do we do? A person in their right mind pulls it off. A person in their mind goes emo reactive-- this allows the leech to stay on longer. Their mind again. That mind does not care about its host. It cares about itself. Just like them.


That’s what ‘their’ mind wants. It seeks to preserve itself only. So it has no problem lying to you, and you in turn to impose its lies on others.

It makes you a liar . Lie/deny/lie. A really sort of hopeless despairing way to go about things. You might be a awakened liar, a spiritual liar but your still a liar. You just aren't aware of the lies you are telling because....they aren't coming from you. If you are aware of the lies coming from you..good for you. You are half way to your right mind.

Their mind makes a liar out of you. This however is not excusing you, its making you aware of why you are a liar.

Here’s another lie their mind puts out there. It says “I’m enlightened. I’m aware. I’m awake. I’m spiritual.. I’m using my right mind, the mind that creation intended for me.”

So people who are actually in their right mind , are like ..." Cool. Let’s talk. Here's someone I can share thoughts with. " How nice.

Until they turn on you and suddenly you realize...they aren't aware. How could they be when they are not aware of 'their' mind at work.


That’s when the trouble starts. Because right minded people an express thoughts from the right mind can do so without being in the emotionally triggered state. They are not 'ready' to be insulted, hurt, pissed off, wounded or torn apart at the seams. They are whole so they don't carry the expectation their whole right minded thoughts are going to imploded the world of the 'their' mind. . In spite of that they've just walked into someone' s land mine. Whole people don't expect people to be liars.

Whole people are told. You should be more sensitive to 'their' mind. Protect it. Be mindful of it. Don't hurt it. This gives their mind environment to thrive in.

So then a lie has been produced, and when we come to find out the mind is not what it said it was all sorts of drama, tears and recriminations are cast. The people who typically bear the brunt of this are not the liars. But the lied to.

But don't get angry. You must never never be angry at 'their' mind. It can kill you from the inside out, divide, conquer and spread but don't be angry.


"YOU said you were awake and then the moment we find out you aren’t…its OUR fault?"

We didn’t tell you to lie. Their mind did. IT has convinced you that you are awake.
How could you be if you are still deceived by their mind?

If you state that you are enlightened and your behaviors express otherwise you are lying to people with THEIR mind.



Sound familiar? That’s the way the powers that be, physical and non-physical have always behaved. We see it at every election time, every false flag, ever 9/11. Lie, problem, reaction, solution. The solution always, strangely enough, produces more lack. Less liberty, less freedom, less room for the right mind.

And because we have their mind we just go along with it over and over again.

Their mind. It started with them but we collectively perpetrate what they started. Because we have their mind. That’s why it was given to us. To give from us to them our power.

This is what disturbs people. The ‘emotion’ that is generated by the thought of ‘being’ like them. If they have given us their mind, how else would we be? Until we learned to be otherwise?

Was I disturbed when I found this out.

Yes.

Did I do something about it.

Yes. The same way I would do something if I glanced down and noticed I was spurting blood from my raw stumpy wrist that had suddenly lost its hand.

If you don’t know what I’m talking about..I regret that. I am not to blame for that though. Consistently blame for people not being in their right mind. They seldom ever have to suffer the consequences of not being in their right mind.

Are YOU blamed for others not being in their right mind? Are you God? Did you make those people. Did you put that mind in them. Why are YOU blamed?


Why do you expect that we are responsible for YOUR mind. It’s THEIR mind.

I’m not responsible for that and hating me for it, and saying I’m angry because you have their mind is not going to fix anything but re-entrench one further into their mind. You can banish me from your sight, so I will stop painfully reminding you that you have their mind.

But you will still have their mind. You will still have to live with what you are. You fight, hate, banish, cry, bitch, moan, scream play the victim all you want but understand…you are a victim of their mind.

You get cancer. Do it again, scream, bitch, cry, blame, me anyone and you will still have cancer.

Trying to absorb this without their mind, might help you to understand this.

If you are ready to shoot off a snarky remark to me...you are thinking with their mind.
It does the same thing over and over again. It's easy to predict what it will do.

What is so different about them, who gave us their mind, and us? They have more firepower. Us. There’s few of them and many of us. In actuality we are them so there’s really no us and them if we keep behaving like them with their mind.

Because we are a large arsenal and we feed it… unmindfully because we are using their mind when we do that. WE are the batteries that keep the matrix, this corrupt field in place. Our emotional fields more precisely provide the energy to keep it in place. Just a mass of energetic beams holding their matrix up.

Who suffers the consequences of it. Not them. People with their minds do. People without their minds get the residual. The blame. Not their mind mind you. However those in their right minds...find that a great comfort. They just get the residual stuff, those in their minds get the full front on impact of being pummeled by 'their' mind 24/7.

They flip the light switch on and off with thoughts that bother us or titillate us. But so do we.

They start wars. And so do we. Over nothing.

They put on big dramas (over nothing) and so do we. We do it over ‘hurt’ feelings. They do it for the false flag effect to hurt feelings. They need the energy. They don’t prefer hurt energy it’s just easier to manufacture because people are so easily hurt when they are possessed of their mind. Call it a mine. That’s all it does is blow up and hurt you.
And if you are not easily hurt their mind will make sure you are.

So you go out and buy a new dress and you are allright with the world. You put the dress on and then THEIR mind just has to ask. Do I look fat in this dress?

And of course someone will say Yes

But its not the dress making you look fat. It’s your fat that makes you look fat.

Interestingly enough their mind will make you look fat too. I don't care how skinny you are their mind will make you look fat. It will make you appear stupid as well because it encourages you to use their mind, the stupid mind instead of the smart right mind. Their mind is there to make you fat and stupid…like cattle or sheep.

Awareness is a separation from their mind. You still have it but now you have a RIGHT mind and a left mind. A right mind is usually right. Rationally speaking if it were not it would be the left mind…their mind. How to tell. If you do something really stupid that hurts you chances are its their mind you dreamed it up with.


They put out false flags to make you feel good.

“ 12/21/12 we will all go away and leave you a big check from the Federal Reserve.”

Boy is that a feel good thought. Turns out that’s ALL it was. An inhabited construct. not reality, just an idea. That idea does not remotely resemble reality.

And idea that someone put emotional energy into you fed on it for a while , like they do, because you have their mind. Then they pulled the rug out (ha ha no 12-21, no check, no feel good) and they fed on that pain. Got you coming and going first with the feel good, then with the pain. Energy is energy to them. And emotions are energy. That's why their mind jacks with our emotions so much. BEcause we let them...

That feel good energy, yep they’ll feed on that too. Not hard to muster that up fleeting and fake as it is.

The energy generated over the agony of deciding if Obama is a light worker. Yep that too.

Now a right mind can talk about these things without inhabiting it emotionally. Then its just mental stimulation not a trip to the ER trauma ward.

If You weren’t giving forth enough energy (power) we/they need to light the fire and get you more agitated. Harvesting, milking call it what you will. They don’t care what sort of energy it is. Do you sit and question whether your electric bill was generated from coal or steam?

Guess what? Neither do they? Because they have the same mind as us. Their mind.

"They" abuse people so they can ‘feel’ good. And so do we. You can be a canonized virtuous lying saint with their mind. Until something happens to remind you that you are deceiving yourself. Usually its by others who are not deceived by you. then you don't feel so 'good' anymore. So you blame the people you lied to for your not feeling so well anymore. You never blame their mind.

They lie to themselves and then others to feel good. And so do we.

They don’t know how they are abusing people . And neither do we.

They don’t care they are abusing people.

And neither do we.

As long as we feel good. As long as their mind is comfortable, happily inhabiting YOUR head everything is just fine for ‘them”.


Like a drug addict that doesn’t care they destroy the family unit as long as they have their feel good fix.

They are obsessed with corruption and so are we.

Doesn’t seem much difference between an us and them, more like a we are them.

We are the enemy.

Until we stop using their mind.

Because we have their minds.

But we can stop using their mind.

[9eagle9]

Their mind and the end of the (inner) world.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53625-The-Psyche-Metaphors-of-Meaning/page4

Something is NOT about to happen. It already happened.

They are not plotting against us. The deed is already done.

The long awaited 'Armageddon' happened before you and I were born.

The above thread link is a series of logical speculations about how their mind came to inhabit us.

If you read that thread notice something. There's no drama, anger, hurt feelings, outrage, arguing. There's disagreement certainly. Because its not an emotional subject. It's about how 'their' mind may have come to inhabit us. Therefore its a mental process. Not an emotional process.

Mind=mental.

The thread its self is inhabited by mostly even tempered people. It's disturbing yes. It's high brow yes. It's intellectual, its science its logical intuitive speculation. It's all those things. It's confusing, its hard, you have to work for it. Its knowledgeable. Why aren't more people in there?

"I might feel stupid?" How strange. More knowledge makes you stupid?

I don't have anything to add. That's okay.

My feelings on the matter will not be supported. No they wouldn't. Your thoughts might.

I don't feel that's the truth. You don't feel the truth, you know it. With YOUR mind. Not your feelings.

It's too overwhelming. And being taken over by someone elses mind is not overwhelming?

I don't understand it. Neither do a lot of people participating. That's why they are in there. To get the understanding.

Why go there at all. It might make their mind feel bad. It won't make it feel good.

Their mind hates it when you do. As you can tell by the emotional temperament in that thread their mind doesn't have a chance in there. And it knows it. That's why you don't see it there.

But that is also the same reason it would keep one away.

Their mind may not allow participation in that thread for good reason. Do you really think they want us really knowing we have their mind. They would much rather have you someplace that is generating 'fear' or feel good'. For you to feel good or bad about. Remember it doesn't matter what energy is given, just give it energy. Of course that is not the only thread about their mind.

And when you have a thread like that...it risks inviting in people 'not their right mind' but in their mind. So they can defend 'their' mind.

The above thread linked is neither. No extremes there. Extremes of thoughts maybe but not emotions.

[9eagle9]

They don’t have to do it a lot. Because we give away our power to them without question. How hard do you have to work when everything is given to you.

Giving away power is easy. Take a hundred dollar bill into a gale force wind let it go and see what happens.

Now how much effort at all. But..how long did it take you to earn that 100.00.

Free Energy.

It's here.

And we are it.


They don't hate us. Why should they hate all that much. If you ‘think’ they are going to wipe out 33 million people because they don’t like us remember they will have to equalize themselves if they do so.

If the talk around town starts that they are going exterminate us one can be rest assured there’s a power struggle going on in the ‘family’ somewhere. For every 1 million of us one them has to go.

if we are in our right mind, then extermination becomes a very viable possibility. There goes their power source.

If we find our right mind there will be no more 'their mind'.

The know that. They don't know much but they do know that. If they knew a whole lot they'd figure out how to get their own personal power without harvesting from us.

That is why its important that their mind is contagious.

It takes several million of us to power a few of them. And we just do it. How else would we do it. How would they manage without us.

We have their minds. If you had my brain, I'd be pretty damned dependent on you would I.

Fortunately you don't and I'm not.

Seriously if you had free power would you kill it, get rid of it, throw it away. They aren’t even stealing it. We just give it away. Where the hell would they be without us?

Where would we be without 'their' mind.

Why don't we have free energy.

We do.

We give it away.

To them.

We are free energy. But not under the yoke of 'their mind'.

[Heartsong]

Thank you 9E9. At some level I understand although I haven't before heard your terminology. I would like you to continue. Perhaps you could give more examples?

[D-Day]

Perhaps you could give more examples?

Just spend some time looking at some of the more contentious threads on this forum... examples abound!!

[Heartsong]

I know well the contention here.

What I'm looking for is an enhancement of 9e9's text so that I can better understand what she's saying as she's saying it.

[9eagle9]

What are people ‘not in their right’ mind called?

(yes-that).

Have you ever worked with people who were mentally ill, in the psych ward, the nut house whatever you want to call it. I know some of us have. I was relatively in my right mind at least compared to those who I worked with. Or so I thought. the difference was probably only marginal and the government eventually came to know that it was only marginal, as I will reveal in a minute. At any rate... I was there to make sure those who were not in their right mind did not harm themselves, others and myself.

Mr Jones where are your dentures?

I hate you, you’re mean. Your a bitch, you’re horrid. I wish you would die. .

Mr. Jones, if you do not show me your dentures in your mouth I will have to call the proctologist again. I really don't want to do that.

You want to steal my dentures. You want them for yourself. Your jealous. (speaking to someone who had obvious 30k worth of hardware and dental work behind their lips, I really didn't want his dentures.Sound reasonable? Can you believe that. No? Yes? Most people can't )

Mr Jones if your dentures are where I most usually find them, I assure you...i don't want your dentures.

You're mean.

Or

Janet Green. where is the ten dollar bill your son left you?

Your evil, you’re a devil who took my money away.

Okay I’m evil, I will call kind God like Dr. Smith the gynecologist to get the money back that I took from you.

I’ll tell her that you pushed me out of bed.

But Mrs. Green I did push you out of bed.

Okay.

There is a reason why people such as this hide things in their body cavity’s. Strangely enough the TS A and other government agencies are obsessed with our body cavities. Who wants to take a stab at that one?


That is dealing with people not in their right mind. You have to have a sense of humor. If you did not they’d drive you crazy with ‘their’ mind.
Most of the people not in their right mind are not in mental wards.

About 20 years ago America mostly emptied out its mental wards, and turned its wards onto the street. Remember that?. During the Reagan Administration I’m told.

Why?


It didn’t matter, they all had the same mind—their mind. No point in keeping those with ‘their’ mind separated from those with ‘their’ mind. When did Sandy Hook Start. Guess?

Then it turned into a matter of keeping the right mind away from 'their mind'.

I am no longer working in a psychiatric ward.

I am still compelled to keep people abusing themselves, others, and me.

I do this because I AM mean, angry and the devil incarnate and because I’m bitter, hateful and wounded. I get this mean viscous pleasure when I try to prevent people from shoving their last remaining bit of power up their butt.

Right?

No.

That is not right mind thinking.

That is what Their mind wants you to think. That's how it preserves itself. And its not even what you think. It’s what their mind wants you to feel. Then it gets to feed again. Not at my expense. AT yours.

More tales from the mental ward.

Dotty, I have come to take you to the bathroom before your daughter gets here.

I can do it myself. You a hateful po faced white bitch and you ain't watching me in the bathroom.

So I let her do it herself. And she promptly ****s all over her room..just as her daughter walks in.

Who gets the blame. Not daughter, not Dottie, not Dottie's ‘their’ mind. My responsibility yes. Not the ward's fault. Or the charge nurses fault.

It's my fault. She's my responsibility. Dottie as much as she is not in her right mind is still my responsibility. You give them an inch and they **** all over the room. You can’t give them an inch. They can’t cope with it.

How did that happen. Why did I lapse? Well..I felt sorry for her. She had no freedom no independence. I just wanted her to have some basic human dignity not have some po faced white bitch standing over her when she used the bathroom. It is every humans right not to have some po faced white bitch watching the final stage act of their alimentary canal? A lapse in judgement in my part. Not supposed to judge you see.

Or maybe I'd already walked through 20 rooms already telling looking for dentures in anus cavities, extracting wet dollar bills, assuring people their dead exhusband wasn't under the bed with a pitch fork, watching people bleed because they sat and clawed at their paper thin skin trying to release the pain of 'their' mind. YOu do get tired of the 'their' mind after a while.
.
21 years old and I'm was already tired of it . Do I find it any less appalling than I did then. Am I any less tired? Are you?

No.

So I left it, and then I knew . Those minds were all over the place. I couldn't leave it.


Mary Thomas. In a geriatric ward full of people not in their right mind. Sweet pliable Mary Thomas. She did whatever you asked and didn’t stuff her dentures up her butt. Pliable. You walked her to her seat, you fed her, she didn’t hiss, spit or throw food at you. She didn't tell you you were evil, mean or nasty when you said she had to change her clothes,. She sat with a sweet smile on her face, empty vacant eyes and let you get on with the show. If you asked her to do something on her own she had no idea what you were talking about. She would go to the john by herself. That was okay she wasn’t stuffing her orifices with denture-creme while in there.

You were supposed to talk to her at all times in goo. Sweet non-conflictive subjects. Just like Mary herself. Gee Mary it’s a nice day out. Oh look Mary there’s pudding for dessert. Mind you when people are not in their right mind there's no such thing as a non-conflicting topic. Opening the drapes turns into a war zone. But Mary was easy.

. Mary liked me. I was her favorite. I liked Mary. Actually she didn’t say or do anything but smile sweetly. Your archetypical sweet old lady. No extracting wadded up ten dollar bills from her vagina. That should have been MY first clue

I talked to Mary like she was , ahem, normal. I talked about USworld news and report with her, I talked about Ronald Reagan, and big pharma and politics, and all sorts of **** to Mary that I wasn’t supposed to. I suppose I was talking to myself because Mary Thomas did not understand any of this.

Or so I thought.


One day I’m sitting next to Mary guiding a spoon to her mouth and listening to the goo talk on the otherside of the table between care taker and patient and literally wanting to vomit into my pocket because the man is an elder, and its being robbed from him with all this syrupy babble. I glance at Mary and the vacant look is gone. She just sits and looks at me from the corner of my eye. And I realized. Mary was entirely in her right mind.

Why was Mary in her right mind in a ward full of crazy people. Why did Mary, out of her Mind Mary, give me that weirdly intelligent, knowing look when the goo started on the other side of the table. Most of all why did Mary act like ..she was not in her right mind?
.
It was the only safe place for her. If she behaved in her right mind, they’d do something to her. Sedate her maybe. Take away her right mind.

Conformity. The only camouflage for the right of mind.

Oh but wait...conformity, being a sheep, the status quo...we don't like that either...

What a bind.

I wonder what causes such a conflict.

[Calz]

No doubt most all are familiar with this passage:

_________


"'No, they don't do it that way. That's idiotic!" don Juan said, smiling. "They are infinitely more efficient and organized than that. In order to keep us obedient and meek and weak, the predators engaged themselves in a stupendous manoeuvre 

stupendous, of course, from the point of view of a fighting strategist. A horrendous manoeuvre from the point of view of those who suffer it. They gave us their mind! Do you hear me? The predators give us their mind, which becomes our mind. The predators' mind is baroque, contradictory, morose, filled with the fear of being discovered any minute now."

_______________


Thread is really adding personal experience and insight to expand upon that.

_______________








There is a reason why people such as this hide things in their body cavity’s. Strangely enough the TS A and other government agencies are obsessed with our body cavities. Who wants to take a stab at that one?




http://stylishcorpse.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/shrek-donkey-pick-me_1.jpg


Just kidding. Tempting as it might be to post one of several hilarious TSA vids going down that path I will pass.

You are doing something of great value here and I certainly do not want to disrail that.

[ROMANWKT]

Talking about using their mind, read this short book, its an astonishing revelation concerning their mind and loosh, and how we are all being directed to unify with this mind by all doctrines, need to read this.

regards

roman

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=19991&d=1357819061

[Calz]

Talking about using their mind, read this short book, its an astonishing revelation concerning their mind and loosh, and how we are all being directed to unify with this mind by all doctrines, need to read this.

regards

roman

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=19991&d=1357819061


Yep ... agreed.

[9eagle9]

No disrespect intended Roman but I probably don't need to read it...lol.

However someone mentioned it to me last night so I will read it. Another angle to the whole matter is always welcome. Thanks for posting the link.

Your views on the matter?



There's another thread in the forum specifically about Loosh and emotional control. It didn't live long like I said their mind doesn't allow people to inhabit arenas where it might be found out like Calz intimated above.

To able to go and admit to yourself that you may be thinking and feeling with something other than your own faculties is the first step to freedom.

Basically people call what mind control, the better portion of is emotional or loosh control.

We are loosh factories. The energetic portion of what people refer to as the matrix, the illusion field is held in place with it.

And that's okay to be forced into a state of loosh production. As long as no gets (here comes the dirty word of the new age era) ...angry.

Even though it is the Rape of the Psyche ...its worse than rape to be angry about it.
It is okay to have their mind. It is not okay to be angry about it.

"You are angry. I don't have to listen to you because anger disqualies any until mental process, reason or evidence. "

(we'll go listen to Alex Jones instead, he's angry but not about 'their mind")

Even though their mind disconnects us from anything that would benefit us in the long term...its worse to be angry about it.

No matter what you do to reveal 'their mind' someone will show up and say. Oh you're angry. That means every word you have written has no merit whatsoever. It sees angry in everything because its hostile about being found out.

These are people who don't know the difference between emotions and thought--they are using their mind.

The meme called 'you are angry'. The pull it out like a gun and shoot you with it anytime you come anywhere near illuminating 'their mind'.

Angry. Angry Face. YOU ARE ANGRY FACE! End of story. This discussion is ended. Someone is angry (regardless if anyone is or not)

Albert Einstein. Nope he got angry, flush all his theories down the toilet. I'm going to watch Alex Jones now.

The act of 'not' being angry has replaced all other virtues. Pedophila, rape, lies, all OK as long as no one was angry. Particularly the victim. Those are all premeditated and perpetrated acts of 'their' mind. That's all it takes to protect it. Just pop up and say "your angry' and the movement to rid society of 'their mind' is pr-emptively scattered and shut down. A greater sin has occured than mind control and rape of the psyce. Anger. Their mind conjured it up and spread the label.

That's all it takes to shut down freedom.

A construct is built around that. "You are in a constant state of anger" therefore not trustworthy. It doesn't matter how much evidence to the contrary one has, you are forever labeled angry. After that anything you say, is angry. Before you even say it , I've labeled it angry. Prejudice.

Even our courts lamely attempt to stay in the 'without prejudice' realms.

Another meme. If you are angry you are not able to love (their mind).

I've never noticed anyone who got pissed about a flat tire or broken dishwasher suddenly fall out of love with their spouse. ...lol.

"Excuse me I can't love you right now, I'm angry at the dishwasher. "

Their mind intrances its host to 'think' that Love is so feeble and week it will just evaporate if someone gets annoyed. It hates Love and kicks it constantly with this subtle manipulation. Love can't exist if there's another emotion present, its that feeble and weak.

Words are words, they can't be angry. They don't have the capacity to be angry. A construct has to be built in order to make this illusion more real. Words can be used in such a way to stir the emotional body as any romance writer will tell you.

Their Mind got into the new age programming and inserted this (fawtly) judgement coding about angry. It's been elevated from a garden variety emotion to being Lucifer, Hitler, Stalin and the slayer of Jesus all in one.

YAG is employed to like a referee in the game. As soon as their mind is present it throws out "You are angry" like shooting a bullet. Because the new age has tossed out all virtue and replaced it with 'anything goes as long as you aren't angry'

Another good meme is judgement. Oh your judgement discounts everything you say. Judgement using one's discernment is a valuable way to get around 'their' mind. It has to be taken out of the game and 'their' mind does that by always making judgement a bad thing. It doesn't want anyone using judgement.

It's been turned into moral condemning. Their mind gets to judge everything but the right mind is not allowed to use its own judgement. That is why we see so much stupid **** in the world. A man allowed to use his 'better' judgment probably wouldn't have died eating five pounds of cockroaches.

Their mind don't want us using judgement even though it uses it daily with the 'anger' meme.


Because their mind can't think or reason it must have this knee jerk reaction to everything. It can't absorb what is being said because its a entreaty about IT. So it has to bolt away shouting over its shoulder, "I'm not reading that. It's full of anger."

How would you know if you didn't read it.


This is called Prejudice. Pre judging a situation. Their mind keeps them in the very two conditions that it casts on other people. Anger and Judgement. So that's all they see, that is the filter it casts over their perception so that anytime someone notices it the people only see anger and judgement.

It is very easy for the right mind to know who is really angry and who is just sort of annoyed. it's by expression. Really angry people have a certain set of behaviors. Those behaviors are seldom present when the anger ticket is pulled.

Real anger as opposed to fake anger has a set pattern of behavior to it. Scowling. sullen, irrational. Really Angry people are irrational. You can be annoyed and still make sense. If someone is making sense chances are they are not all that angry, they are using their mental processes not their emotional ones.

That relates directly to building a construct and inhabiting it.

Which I will get to later.


Talking about using their mind, read this short book, its an astonishing revelation concerning their mind and loosh, and how we are all being directed to unify with this mind by all doctrines, need to read this.

regards

roman

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=19991&d=1357819061

[9eagle9]

Yes I could I'd have to email them to you privately though. If you provide evidence of 'their' mind at work its typically taken as a personal criticism.

Examples of direct and premeditated attacks pasted in public though, moderation will more than likely frown on .

Our crazy making **** is that we are collectively trying to expose 'their mind' and hide it at the same time...lol.

Someone's 'their' mind will most certainly take offense and find a means of defending itself and this thread will turn into a emo blood bath.

I'm not really supposed to spell this out for people word for word and steer their thinking. That would make me as bad as their mind. However I can point you in the right direction and people can 'make up their own' mind.

But what D-Day said. Any thread that starts out as discussion of a concept or idea will quickly degenerate into a emo blood bath with the presence of 'their' mind. Particularly if the subject or topic matter challenges 'their ' minds right to exist.

Basically though, people first get an abstract understanding of this. When that occurs the right mind will come forward and lay it out.

If it's allowed to that is.



Thank you 9E9. At some level I understand although I haven't before heard your terminology. I would like you to continue. Perhaps you could give more examples?

[another bob]

Interesting discussion, Thanks Chelley! Terminologically speaking, what is being called "their mind" I call "ego-mind". The question is, once identified, what can we do to free ourselves from that foreign superimposition, besides raising a vague ruckus among a few marginalized intellectuals on an obscure forum?

As I see it, “ego-mind” is the activity of craving and aversion that gives rise to the sense of a separate self, which in turn demands one’s full attention in the form of caring, feeding, defending, and preserving. The process initiates when perception is translated into an interior stream of interpretations, images, concepts, memories, beliefs, projections, judgments, narratives and commentaries, which mind then weaves into a vivid and perpetual story – the story of “me” – a fictional character taken to be real, entangled in dilemma, and relentlessly driven by attraction and fear to seek an elusive happiness through the exploitation of experience in this dreamy realm of transitory forms and appearances.

Should it pursue its ongoing adventures in the arena of “spiritual effort”, ego-mind will diligently follow all the rules, rites, and rituals, even congratulating itself on how well it’s doing transcending ego-mind. It will be right up there at the front line, earnestly battling itself via all manner of borrowed strategies and prescribed remedies – artifacts of the search — which in the end only serve to fatten it and prolong the internal struggle.

Ego-mind can co-opt even our most profound realizations, taking the credit for how well it’s seeing through and “hacking” itself. In fact, the very movement and impulse to fight delusion is prompted by delusion itself. That’s how it confirms its existence and survives so well — by ensuring that a perpetual state of war exists (not unlike certain governments).

The last thing it wants is to become obsolete through lack of attention. The last sound it ever wants to hear is the sound of silence. When the movement of attention falls into the inherent and prior silence of its own source, it is not interesting to the ego-mind, which thrives on the noise of conflict. Consequently, if one would be free, sages and shamans recommend cultivating the discipline of inner silence.

“Whatever happens in consciousness is purely imaginary, a hallucination. Therefore keep in mind the knowledge that it is consciousness in which everything is happening. With that knowledge, be still, do not pursue any other thoughts which arise in consciousness.”

~Sri Nisargadatta


“The grand trick of those sorcerers of ancient times was to burden the flyers’ mind with discipline. Sorcerers found out that if they taxed the flyers’ mind with inner silence, the foreign installation would flee, and give any one of the practitioners involved in this maneuver the total certainty of the mind’s foreign origin. [It] comes back, I assure you, but not as strong; and a process begins in which the fleeing of the flyers’ mind becomes routine until one day it flees permanently.”

~Don Juan Matus, “The Active Side of Infinity”, by Carlos Castenada


The quotes above, though from two very different traditions and from opposite ends of the world, coincide in describing a prime vehicle of liberation – the Way of Silence — but it is not a path most will undertake, because of the tremendous discipline and subtlety involved. In the “Bhagavad Gita”, Krishna told Arjuna that, out of millions, only a few will aspire to the truth, and out of those who do, only a few will realize it.

Even given these slim odds, however, what is the alternative? To be a slave? If one is earnest enough in their desire for freedom, they will do what it takes, even unto death. In fact, it’s precisely that death — the end of the search — that mystics and realizers throughout the centuries have spoken of as the price of admission: dying to the restless mind of craving and aversion.

Question: “It is said that the Self is beyond the mind and yet the realisation is with the mind. The mind cannot think it. It cannot be thought of by the mind and the mind alone can realise it. How are these contradictions to be reconciled?”

Ramana Maharshi: “Self is realised with mrita manas (dead mind), that is, mind devoid of thoughts and turned inward. Then the mind sees its own source and becomes that.”


Nevertheless, to attempt to force attention into silence by an act of will is just engaging in yet another variation on the theme of seeking, because willing and seeking are complementary. In this case, the exercise of the will equates with the idealism of seeking to have things be different than they are, even if that change is to a state of non-seeking. This is why Seng-T’san, Third Patriarch of Zen, wrote:

“When you try to stop activity to achieve peace, your very effort fills you with activity.”

Consequently, while a sage such as Ramana might advise, “Make no effort … your effort is the bondage….all that is required is to be still”, such instructions are almost impossible for ordinary folk to carry out, for the simple reason that willing and seeking are not normally under our control. They are conditioned activities, programmed into the very foundations of delusion. Moreover, they are based on a case of mistaken identity, in which consciousness assumes the ego-mind’s cravings and aversions to be its own, and so fixates on a self-sense, projecting that “me” story of dissatisfaction into the mechanics of the search, and so re-affirming it in an endless loop.

Ironically, it is the vicious cycle of that very seeking which keeps the mind agitated and prolongs the delusion by reinforcing identification with the story over and over again, prompting efforts to change environments and circumstances, which only result in the mere modification of mind, rather than its liberation. This is why the great Dzogchen adept Longchenpa noted,

“In the meditation which is great natural self-perfection, there is no need of modifications and transformations: whatever arises is the Great Perfection. If you reside in the groundless state through detachment from mind you will accomplish, spontaneously and changelessly, the inconceivable sovereignty.”

In other words, only by disengaging from that stream of thoughts, images, interpretations, memories, and projections which constitute “the story” can attention come to rest in silence, and it is only in such silence, freed from all distractions, all futile seeking and stressful striving, that the true nature and condition of our immortal being can reveal itself as pure awareness.

“Of the steps to liberation, the first is declared to be complete detachment from all things which are non-eternal. Then comes the practice of tranquility, self-control, and forbearance. And then the entire giving-up of all actions which are done from personal, self desire…. He who has completely overcome attachment is ready for the state of liberation.”

~Shankara


See also:

http://theconsciousprocess.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/snatching-the-story/

[CdnSirian]

9E9 you have laid this out beautifully. Thank you for taking the time to spell it out.

[Calz]

9E9 you have laid this out beautifully. Thank you for taking the time to spell it out.

There has actually been a number a recent threads that have gone through the roof in what we, as members of humanity, should really pay attention to.

9 linked to one in her 2nd post and the modwiz thread on the emotional body is another.

Won't go beyond that cuz no doubt I will forget someone ... suddenly having a hard time keeping up with what really matters here. Point being after personally being here a couple years now ... some of the most astounding and useful information to us is pouring through.

Don't have to wait for a book ... hey ... it is here ... and it is now.

Grab it while you can peeps.

No credit card necessary ... just a bit of time, attention and an open mind.

[Ki's]

9E9...thank you.

[doodah]

9eagle, I've long thought that there was a significant division in mind on this planet when the Romans defeated the Celts all throughout Europe. Before the Celts were conquered, there was more of a balance of mind. Since then we have been dominated by "the Roman mind." All countries conquered by the Romans became "Romanized," and they did this for 1000 years. Conquered America (not the Native Americans' Turtle Island) is Roman. Even Washington DC was built on a swamp, as was Rome. That's something that has always struck me as really strange.

... when people stopped building in curves, as Native Americans did; as most older societies do; as the natural world does -- and started building in straight lines... linear thinking ... separation, specialization, etc., that has gotten worse over time.

Does this thought resonate with you at all?

[TargeT]

It was the only safe place for her. If she behaved in her right mind, they’d do something to her. Sedate her maybe. Take away her right mind.

Conformity. The only camouflage for the right of mind.

Oh but wait...conformity, being a sheep, the status quo...we don't like that either...

What a bind.

I wonder what causes such a conflict.

Something I lament on often, especially as I sit here in a combat uniform reading decidedly "un-conformist" web sites and topics.


A question on emotion, the feeling of and the timing of.

I have struggled with this often, I have been called a "robot" and "un-emotional" and various other meant-to-be-degrading comments on my emotional state; I probably have over reacted and am suppressive of my own "emotional body" because I don't like the outcome of emotions I see in others. All the negative emotions (which seem to be the most common, or perhaps easiest to spot) end in one outcome (or greatly increase the possibility of this outcome) that I can see: actions that are later regretted.

Anyway, pointless personal stories aside:

I assume that the only emotional "feeling" that can be trusted is one that arrives due to consciously made decisions, perhaps a bit of joy at a completed project (that has nothing to do with how people will "look at you" or other egoistic motivations) etc... What is to be trusted in the inner landscape? am I going to far by distancing myself from nearly everything?

as to "Their mind" isn't it fairly easy to spot if you find yourself motivated to do something that you didn't consciously decide to do? I found myself in a pointless argument over eating meat here recently that in review I have no Idea why I felt so motivated to post in; I'll assume that was a "their mind" moment as I intentionally was aggravating other people (though not no-holds barred style so perhaps I have some hope). I even posted pictures of "meat harvesting machines" and dead fish to sort of twist the barb in a bit..

I guess I too would not mind more examples, though I understand your reluctance to point them out as any thing "locally relevant" could be seen as a "personal attack".

Thanks for the writing and topics to think on.

[9eagle9]

Yes yes it does ring a chord there. I'm currently writing about it things of that nature, the Roman conquest of the Celts and later the Gaels with the Roman Catholic church was a epoch of consciousness shift, one might call it ego overgrowth or 'their mind' over growth.

Even the right mind has an ego but its different than the left or 'their mind' ego.

The gaels viewed the Ro-mans as different species altogether interestingly enough. One that was quite insane. So did the Scythian Amazons. And the conquest of the Native Americans was not much different than the conquest of Ireland.

"Their" mind is pretty single minded lol. Linear thinking, it hasn't the ability to balance itself or to explore in a 360 degree way. I'd imagine the physical expressions of that would be how our inner world was reflected in our outer world. Straight single minded lines instead of circles.


9eagle, I've long thought that there was a significant division in mind on this planet when the Romans defeated the Celts all throughout Europe. Before the Celts were conquered, there was more of a balance of mind. Since then we have been dominated by "the Roman mind." All countries conquered by the Romans became "Romanized," and they did this for 1000 years. Conquered America (not the Native Americans' Turtle Island) is Roman. Even Washington DC was built on a swamp, as was Rome. That's something that has always struck me as really strange.

... when people stopped building in curves, as Native Americans did; as most older societies do; as the natural world does -- and started building in straight lines... linear thinking ... separation, specialization, etc., that has gotten worse over time.

Does this thought resonate with you at all?

[9eagle9]

Their mind is easily annoyed. It squawks fast at the slightest provocation.

Basically when I see this unholy contagious crap going on it makes the concept of meat vs vegetarian rather stupid. Sorta like what brand of cookies to buy while your mother is being raped in the next room. A holocaust being waged. A pandemic rather. "Their' mind will keep people tied up in stuff like that so its not noticed.

Emotions can't really be trusted and there's no reason why we should. They are not thought, truth or wisdom, they are simply a means to feel. There are truer emotions than the staged one's 'their' minds put on and those I suppose could be termed truer emotions. At least emotions not generated from an artificial place.

Authentic emotion is the word I'm looking for.

Personal experience tends to turn into personal observation. The more you observe 'their' mind the less of an environment it has to avoid.

I know that people who are capable of their right mind can find those instances of 'their' mind in-habitation without my help.

Not localized to Avalon

Putting an irrational idea out there like the flurry of GFL idiocy ,all 'their' mind, new age space jesus/messiah/savior right down to the word is example of posting up an emotionally inhabited idea and then getting others to emotionally inhabit it. Why have dull old Jesus and his sheep when you can have space Jesus-Savior ufo! The 'their' mind finds that stuff original sounding, to the rest of us its a foolish as it...is..uhm...is. It tries to show that as original or authentic or inspired thought and it just sounds exactly what it is . Dumb.

The more people entrench in their 'right' mind the more stories about having our lives, saved, managed, controlled, taken care of become distasteful. A right mind is a free mind, its is loose from 'their' mind so find those sorts we are going to be saved, we are one just another version of the prison they had to escape from in the first place.

People began eyeballing that stuff pretty hard, and its proponents, and it died a fairly ungraceful death. Of course 'their' mind wants to still believe in it and will find some other place to grow that disease in a different form.

I have another example in my next post of pandemia ....




It was the only safe place for her. If she behaved in her right mind, they’d do something to her. Sedate her maybe. Take away her right mind.

Conformity. The only camouflage for the right of mind.

Oh but wait...conformity, being a sheep, the status quo...we don't like that either...

What a bind.

I wonder what causes such a conflict.

Something I lament on often, especially as I sit here in a combat uniform reading decidedly "un-conformist" web sites and topics.


A question on emotion, the feeling of and the timing of.

I have struggled with this often, I have been called a "robot" and "un-emotional" and various other meant-to-be-degrading comments on my emotional state; I probably have over reacted and am suppressive of my own "emotional body" because I don't like the outcome of emotions I see in others. All the negative emotions (which seem to be the most common, or perhaps easiest to spot) end in one outcome (or greatly increase the possibility of this outcome) that I can see: actions that are later regretted.

Anyway, pointless personal stories aside:

I assume that the only emotional "feeling" that can be trusted is one that arrives due to consciously made decisions, perhaps a bit of joy at a completed project (that has nothing to do with how people will "look at you" or other egoistic motivations) etc... What is to be trusted in the inner landscape? am I going to far by distancing myself from nearly everything?

as to "Their mind" isn't it fairly easy to spot if you find yourself motivated to do something that you didn't consciously decide to do? I found myself in a pointless argument over eating meat here recently that in review I have no Idea why I felt so motivated to post in; I'll assume that was a "their mind" moment as I intentionally was aggravating other people (though not no-holds barred style so perhaps I have some hope). I even posted pictures of "meat harvesting machines" and dead fish to sort of twist the barb in a bit..

I guess I too would not mind more examples, though I understand your reluctance to point them out as any thing "locally relevant" could be seen as a "personal attack".

Thanks for the writing and topics to think on.

[9eagle9]

Constructed habitation

An idea, thought, person, thing , circumstance is idealized. Made into an idea. Then people inhabit it with their emotion.

This diametrically opposite of clear sorcery, magick which is taking a word (not an idea) and inhabiting it with will. Not emotion, not thoughts. But will. If you have ‘their’ mind you have no will. You may have the potential for it but you won’t ever be able to express it in a meaningful way with ‘their mind’ running the show.

So the construct is made, and inhabited by emotion it becomes very personalized. Their mind is shared between the person and the idea so eventually….it starts to become self aware. It becomes externalized, their mind was never really under your control in the first place, and now you’ve just created an externalized self aware thought form. Now it can meddle in events external of you!

And they do.

Take on a sort of fraudulent reality and life of its own. Now it is contagious. It just needs to find another ‘their’ mind to grow it. And people willingly hoe the field for them.

Take this idea.

I’m going to cast a thousand pounds of grass seed across one barren toxic acre and grow 50k barrels of potatoes from that casting.

Then I inhabit the thought with emotion, hope, desire, need, wanting it to be true, wishing it to be true, longing for it to be. It’s a feel good idea this bizarre form of magick that has nothing to do with metaphysics and everything to do with insanity that never fails to disappoint the 'magick' user. Through a sort of pseudo manifestation process this will happen. Because…



It sounds good. So it feels good. Things that sound good make us feel good so ….they must be true.!


I can nearly believe I can do this. But the right mind is buried and murmuring ‘UHM I don’t think so” so there’s some doubt cast on the whole idea. The right mind casts doubt on this plan. Then we want others inhabit this idea to reinforce it to cast that doubt away. We need the support of others and their energy to make our doubts go away(and our right mind) because the right mind is fairly sturdy object. Surely if other ‘their’ minds agree to it must have real substance, it will happen because of agreement. Remember their mind is a collective. Majority rules. . So we share it.

The first time the idea is not agreed to it’s like a punch in the gut. Not because a punch was directed at the person but at the idea. One is criticizing the idea their mind created with their right mind. But because one has become so emotionally invested in the idea its like the person got criticized on a personal level. Stupid idea translates into “I’m stupid.”

Their mind is stupid though. It dreams up this **** for you to inhabit emotionally. And for others. This is the agreement that leads to a term called inhabited—possession. Hi jacking at the very least.

A rational criticism of the inhabited construct: It is physically impossible to grow 50k of potatoes from grass seed on one acre of barren toxic land.
1) Potatoes don’t grow from grass seed.
2) proportionally speaking 50k tons of potatoes will not be had from one acre of land.
3) toxic barren land will neither grow

The counter argument to this practical critique is ''your angery'.

Trying to debate with one's emotions? You might as well as shoot yourself in the foot.

Their mind translates that criticism as hatred. It hates anyone who sees it, 'their mind' So the logical reason for this not happening (beyond the physical impossibility of it) is other people’s hate and disbelief.

But since so many people share their mind there is a mob drama over ‘their ‘ minds stupidity. Because the people think, via their mind, they are stupid. Because ‘their’ mind came up with a stupid idea. They end being responsible for the idea that ‘their mind’ came up with. It leaves them holding the bag everytime. We thought our annoying egos were bad, this is like a super super ego.

What a gig.

They may abandon the idea eventually or just re-transform it into another equally irrational scenario. Much of unrealistic, irrational Christian doctrine got transformed into new age ideas and beliefs. The indwelling is still there but the shell of the idea changed. The bait changed.
But this is how the collective consciousness becomes inhabited by junk.

Junk that people channel or inhabit with emotion. Channelers and ‘psychics’ go in there and channel this as true spiritual information and its brought back down and re-inhabited again. It looks real and it looks like it has self-awareness. Their mind.

The 'true' spirit inhabiting that crap is...an inhabited construct with 'their' mind mixed in.

An example of someone famous who does this so ‘their’ mind can harvest. Why David Wilcocks keeps coming up with these ascension dates and ideas. He is fully emotionally invested in the concept. It’s his reality because the ‘their’ mind made it that way for him. Their mind won’t let him let go of it. Now matter how much all his predictions fail 'their' mind flog him forward.

Not long ago I superimposed his astrological chart, his numerical chart, and correpsonded them to tarot archetypes then ran them down the path of the Kabbalah.

Holy cow. Get a can of raid. ..lol.

And people rush in to inhabit his ideas. Which are really the ideas of ‘their’ mind. And when it fails people can blame it on hate and anger of rational people. That is how rational intelligence becomes angry. It’s not. Rational intelligence has no emotion associated with it. It’s intelligence not emotion.

Usually we see these inhabited constructs in the form of ‘We are all going to turn into light bodies.’

Ufo are going to land, Et’s will save us. A light beam will transform the world. The Federal Reserve will send you a check.

This is also how parasitical non physical entities are created. You inhabit it long enough it begins to develop a ‘their’ mind.

Gee you ever wonder like ‘something’ out there is working against you, pulling the rug out from under you, bad luck. like something knows what you are going to do and head you off at the pass before you can do it.

Thank the inhabited construct you made yourself or the one that others made and you agreed to.

While you still have ‘their’ mind they are pretty hard to get rid of.

[9eagle9]

I went out of my right mind trying to figure out a recurring pattern in my life. Until I knew….

Envy.

Not mine. Very intuitive people kept finding a cloud of envy around me. All the time. Not coming from me, just directed at me. When this started cropping up I could maybe rationalize…Yeah..probably.. A good solid accurate psychic, a talented energy worker in a field loaded with ‘their’ mind and the accompanying envy that haunts the 'spiritual' communities.

Why not. I'd be suprised if not, because spiritual communities are raddled with this crap.


But years after fact when their mind cleared the playing field of anyone who was adept in ability, why the envy. I got out of the spiritual ego envy circles. I wasn't there to agitate them anymore. Too exhausting, its like playing with mud people.

And… I don’t have enviable life. Its not bon bons and peignoirs and unlimited spending here.

There’s not even any one around to envy me. Who the clerk at TSC? The farrier? The chickens. The spoiled monster that chews my wallet to nothing.

Who. I don’ t associate, socialize or smooze. I’m not in social settings where the stick insects can get wroth. I don’t see anyone. there’s no one around to ‘rouse’ envy in.

Where’s all this envy coming from.

I’m not talking about individuals how are envious they are pretty obvious.

. It’s that collective envy that is felt, from the collective ‘their’ mind that has their warp field running through collective consciousness. It hates and envies its hosts even, the ones who do its whim and bow to its every need. Even as substantially reduced as those people are they still have something it wants.

No matter how much it controls people, people will have something it greatly desires and can’t have.

Going into the collective consciousness is like going into the worst sort of smelly dive bar on a waterfront scattered with rotten fish.

Yet everywhere you go there’s the war cry, expand the collective, get into the collective mind, expand consciousness (their mind). So it spreads like an infection .

And the number one symptoms are irrational hate and envy. When there is no ‘reason’ for envy.

I had no idea how much the buzzing of the collective bothered me . You can hang up the phone but you still hear the annoying dial tone.

After 12/21/12 it got real quiet, most of its fodder was abruptly yanked away. It made me realize I spent my life with a noise like nails scratching on a chalkboard in the distance…until it got quiet. Oh my god how light and airy and energetic it was. How relaxing it was. One could put down their fifty piles of etheric shielding from that crap and breathe the free air!

Then it started up again.

All that intense energy that people felt coming in?

Mostly just a natural state they were feeling now that the gabble of the 'their' mind had been shut up for a few. That represented an opportunity to get out from under its yoke.

I wonder how many took it.

[Hervé]

...

:rant:

Why an Alex Jones is successful in waking up a few individuals:




"People will let themselves be led by someone who is in the next level up on the scale (http://www.whale.to/v/tone.html). Therefore, all of the gullible souls in the Fear band can be easily influenced and pushed into action by the 1.5 (anger fixation)."--Ruth Minshull (http://www.whale.to/b/minshull_h.html) (How to choose your people p119)Excerpted from: http://www.whale.to/v/tone.html

A few more interesting quotes and links on that page about mind control via emotions...

[another bob]

Envy.

Yep, one of the major poisons, before greed, before hatred . . . hard to root out, difficult, but possible.

The main antitdote -- humility, which makes real compassion possible.


helpful notes here: http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1562

[9eagle9]

I peeked at the pdf, I read it before, yeah same thing I'm describing here and in CeeTee's thread.

We're loosh factories.

But at least we're not angry!


Talking about using their mind, read this short book, its an astonishing revelation concerning their mind and loosh, and how we are all being directed to unify with this mind by all doctrines, need to read this.

regards

roman

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=19991&d=1357819061

[Jeffrey]

Here is a corroborating collection of excerpts from Sri Aurobindo -- I think these compliment the thread (and the underlying theme that ties this thread into others like it). The first quote is from Mirra Alfassa, the rest are from Aurobindo.

[Side note: Emphasis added.]




It would seem that all the adverse, anti-divine forces, the forces of the vital world, have descended on the earth, are making use of it as their field of action, and that at the same time a new, higher, more powerful spiritual force has also descended on earth to bring it a new life. This makes the struggle more acute, more violent, more visible, but it seems also more definitive, and that is why we can hope to reach an early solution.

[...]

The gift of rajas is kinetic force, energy, activity, the power that creates and acts and can overcome; but it moves in the wrong lights or the half-lights of the Ignorance and it is perverted by the touch of the Asura, Rakshasa and Pishacha. The arrogant ignorance of the human mind and its self-satisfied perversions and presumptuous errors, the pride and vanity and ambition, the cruelty and tyranny and beast wrath and violence, the selfishness and baseness and hypocrisy and treachery and vile meanness, the lust and greed and rapacity, the jealousy, envy and bottomless ingratitude that disfigure the earth-nature are the natural children of this indispensable but strong and dangerous turn of Nature [...] The various imperfections of the soul and mind produce many imperfections and perversities of this type,—the man of mere brute force of will, the worshipper of power without any other ideal or higher purpose, the selfish, dominant personality, the aggressive violent rajasic man, the grandiose egoist, the Titan, Asura, Rakshasa.

[...]

And equally when we first become aware of the infinite Shakti above us or around or in us, the impulse of the egoistic sense in us is to lay hold on it and use this increased might for our egoistic purpose. This is a most dangerous thing, for it brings with it a sense and some increased reality of a great, sometimes a titanic power, and the rajasic ego, delighting in this sense of new enormous strength, may instead of waiting for it to be purified and transformed throw itself out in a violent and impure action and even turn us for a time or partially into the selfish and arrogant Asura using the strength given him for his own and not for the divine purpose: but on that way lies, in the end, if it is persisted in, spiritual perdition and material ruin.

Source: http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~biedel/Victory/asura.html

This next selection is from Evening Talks with Sri Aurobindo:




Disciple: If the Asuras represent the dark side of God on the vital plane – does this dark side exist on every plane? If so, are there beings on the mental plane which correspond to the dark side?

Sri Aurobindo: The Asura is really the dark side of God on the mental plane. Mind is the very field of the Asura. His characteristic is egoistic strength, which refuses the Higher Law. The Asura has got Self-control, Tapas, intelligence, only, all that is for his ego. On the vital plane the corresponding forces we call the Rakshashas which represent violent passions and impulses. There are other beings on the vital plane which we call pramatta and piśacha and these; manifest, more or less, on the physico-vital plane.

Disciple: What is the corresponding being on the higher plane?

Sri Aurobindo: On the higher plane there are no Asuras – there the Truth prevails. There are "Asuras" there in the Vedic sense, – "beings with divine powers". The mental Asura is only a deviation of that power.

The work of the Asura has all the characteristics of mind in it. It is mind refusing to submit to the Higher Law; it is the mind in revolt. It works on the basis of ego and ignorance.

Disciple: What are the forces that correspond to the dark side of God on the physical plane?

Sri Aurobindo: They are what may be called the "elemental beings", or rather, obscure elemental forces – they are more "forces" than "beings". It is these that the Theosophists call the "Elementals". They are not individualised beings like the Asura and the Rakshasas, they are ignorant forces working oh the subtle physical plane.

[...]

Disciple: The term "Elemental" means that these work through the elements.

Sri Aurobindo: There are two kinds of "elementals": one mischievous and the other innocent. What the Europeans call the gnomes come under this category.

[...]

Sri Aurobindo: I did not say so; what I might have said is that there are conscious forces behind the diseases. Diseases are movements of forces.

Disciple: You said that some diseases feed on the vitality of man.

Sri Aurobindo: It is not diseases that feed on man's vitality. It may be a vital being sucking up man's vitality and the result may be a disease.

[...]

Disciple: Some of the Asuras are said to have practised Sadhana. What is their kind of Sadhana? You also said that they are very intelligent beings.

Sri Aurobindo: I never said that they have true ideas and great ideals and that they were great mental beings. What I said was that they were clever in carrying out their purpose, they know how to work out results.

[...]

Sri Aurobindo: In the case of Ravana, and also of Hiranya Kashipu, they were human beings who became Asuras and chose the path of opposition to the Divine. It is really a fall and it shows that the course of evolution for man is not to become an Asura. That is to say, the course of human evolution is not from the animal to the vital being and then to the Asura. Asuric life is regarded as a fall for man. If you got converted Asuric nature then you lose the chance of your evolution.

Source: http://www.aurobindo.ru/workings/purani/2-0092.htm, http://www.aurobindo.ru/workings/purani/2-0091.htm

This smacks of what the Gnostic scriptures illustrate and the information from Matus/Castandena.

Here are a few more from Aurobindo about the hostile forces. By the way, the vital corresponds to the astral or emotional body.




They [the hostile forces] come because they were freely permitted in the past - so they want to renew and continue their action. An entire rejection and a complete turning to the Divine are the way to meet them.

[...]

Yes, certainly. Men are being constantly invaded by the hostiles and there are great numbers of men who are partly or entirely under their influence. Some are possessed by them, others (a few) are incarnations of hostile beings. At the present moment they are very active all over the earth. Of course in the outside world there is no consciousness, such as is developed in yoga, by which they can either become aware of or consciously repel the attacks - the struggle in them between the psychic and the hostile force goes on mostly behind the veil or so far as it is on the surface is not understood by the mind.

[...]

The forces of the Ignorance are a perversion of the earth-nature and the adverse Powers make use of them. They do not give up their control of men without a struggle.

[...]

There is always this critical hostile voice in everybody's nature, questioning, reasoning, denying the experience itself, suggesting doubt of oneself and doubt of the Divine. One has to recognise it as the voice of the Adversary trying to prevent the progress and refuse credence to it altogether.

[...]

But when the suggestions come, surely it is possible to know from their very character what they are and that itself shows that they must come from wrong vital Forces. The only thing is that they must be at once rejected and the entry into your own mind and vital refused to them - i.e. they must not be accepted or allowed to influence. Very few have the direct occult perception of the Forces behind the suggestion - at least until the cosmic consciousness fully opens, for then direct perception becomes more easily possible, - but the mental understanding can be used with good effect.

[...]

Do not allow these suggestions to prevail. Each time these powers attack, if you hold them at bay, you gain an added force for progress. They attack and suggest to you a wrong understanding in the hope that, if you accept, their power to return on you will last a little longer. Do not allow them to prevail for however short a time.

[...]

That is very interesting - for it agrees with the Mother's constant insistence that to feel sympathy or any emotion of the weak philanthropic kind with those possessed by vital forces is most dangerous as it may bring an attack upon oneself which may take any form. One must do what is to be done but abstain from all such weakness.

[...]

Vital forces can attack the mind and do. Many receive suggestions from them through the brain, so it is quite possible that it may be felt as coming in through the head from above. That does not mean that it came from regions above the mind (higher Mind, intuition or overmind). Correct reasoning means no more than coherent argument from a certain standpoint and does not validate a fit of anger or indicate for it a non-adverse source.

[...]

There has been progress in all these parts, but they seem to be subject still to a response to the suggestions of the hostile forces. Everybody gets these suggestions, but they ought not to be allowed to enter inside, especially in the heart, or to be accepted by the vital. Evidently, they enter through the physical mind (from the throat upwards meant that) and affect the surface vital and emotional being. You must get the power to reject them from there by a constant and steady denial and refusal of their suggestions. So long as anything in you says “yes” or accepts, there is always the possibility of a return.

[...]

It is not sincerity to express only what the adverse forces suggest or what you feel when you are in a bad condition, full of obscurity and a wrong outlook. When you are in the Truth, you feel quite the opposite and it is not insincerity to cling to that and recall it. It is only by bringing it back that the Truth can grow in you.

[...]

Naturally, the hostile forces are always on the watch to rob what they can of the things received by the sadhak, - not that they profit by them but they prevent them from being used to build up the Divine in life.

[...]

There are two things that make it impossible for them [the hostile forces] to succeed even temporarily in any attack on the mind or the vital - first, an entire love, devotion and confidence that nothing can shake, secondly, a calm and equality in the vital as well as in the mind which has become the fundamental character of the inner nature. Suggestions then may still come, things go wrong outside, but the being remains invulnerable. Either of these two things is sufficient in itself - and in proportion as they grow, even the existence of the hostile forces becomes less and less of a phenomenon of the inner life - though they may still be there in the outer atmosphere.

Source: http://intyoga.online.fr/hostile.htm

[9eagle9]

a quote from that material you posted. This is why when we have these contentious go rounds, I'm like OMG you are LYING TO me.

People who walk around and drip love. Same thing. Narcissism to the extreme.

Arguing mental values with just stupid emotional values X and X =X but it doesn't count because your mad. And we all know they get away with it because (a laundry list of rationalizations)

But we are taught these out of control emotional states are emotion=normal.

Those who are healthy in their emotions are perceived as mad, angry, aloof, uncaring.

People who really are healthy in the emotional body are attacked for being that way.

Something is 'wrong' with them. Yes. It gives less of 'their' mind to feed from. That's wrong to not feed the foot soldier of the powers that be hierarchy.

Healthy self respect and self authority is turned into ego, narcissism, arrogance, superiority complex. Self respect and self authority are things that threaten 'their mind'.

"Beware of emotions. The emotional person is turned off sensually. His body is a churning robot. Emotions are addictive, narcotic, and stupefacient. Moods such as sorrow and joy accompany emotions. Like a junkie who has just connected, the emotional person feels good when he has scored emotionally, i.e., put someone down or been beaten down. Conscious love is not an emotion; it is the serene merging with yourself, with other people, with other forms of energy. Love cannot exist in an emotional state. Emotions are emergency alarms.....The presocial wily-animal god of emotion-locomotion resides within our nervous system, ready to pour out flight-fight endocrine juices (p97)."—T. Leary



[QUOTE=Amzer Zo;614916][CENTER]...

[AwakeInADream]

"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), founder of analytical psychology

"Insanity -- a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world."
R. D. Lang

"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives.... I think we’re being run by maniacs for maniacal ends ... and I think I’m liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That’s what’s insane about it."
John Lennon, Interview BBC-TV (June 22, 1968)

More quotes about insanity here: http://www.cancertutor.com/Quotes/Quotes_Insanity.html

Just bookmarking a great thread! Thanks 9eagle9!:)

[9eagle9]

Ahh but the meme got into humility too. There isn't a single virtue left that the virus hasn't attached itself to.

People live in a state of constant humiliation. For the reason I just described, they appear to be the responsible party in the 'their' mind' bait and switch game. Their mind convinces them its a good idea broad cast their insane ideas so the rational can say "I'm not buying that for very rational reasons". Then they squawk that their feelings are hurt but the next day are at it again.


Humility is really just allowing something higher than your sorry existence to express through you without judging it or letting 'their mind' get hold of it. Keeping the house the way it was intended to be kept.

Humbling yourself before God is one thing, humbling yourself before 'their' mind is exactly what they want.

As opposed to the sort of humility taught today, pull on your forelock and mumble yes sir yes sir three bags full sir so the their mind has a safe environment.

There isn't a single virtue, craft, philosophy, means that has not been infiltrated by them. Because the people that learn them have their mind and the first thing the mind does is change anything that would benefit anyone into a glob of uselessness. The only way they become funcitonal again is to get in your right mind and then use them.

Reiki? As soon as it left Japan all the Buddhist principles, which were sound, rational, were scrubbed out of the modality because it might upset Christians (their mind). It used to be tapping, pounding, massaging, brushing a person. Now its standing with your hands spread over and humming. Meridian work used to be the core of Reiki, now its never mentioned but has become all about chakra flogging.

ALL SELF Healing properties of Reiki, were edited out. Self healing become 'run energy into your chakras' which amounts to run some water in your sink and you'll be all better.

Tarot Cards. Basic Ryder-Waite deck still has all the or most of the original archetypical images in that are there for a reason .

Now we have Hello Kitty Tarot.






Envy.

Yep, one of the major poisons, before greed, before hatred . . . hard to root out, difficult, but possible.

The main antitdote -- humility, which makes real compassion possible.


helpful notes here: http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1562

[9eagle9]

It does compliment the thread, wherever you look these days people are calling this thousands of years old subterfuge out, albeit in different terms, they all merge eventually into basically the same thing, total control. On the physical, emotional, mental level. On the biological level. Genetic level. How much does 'their' mind sound like the reptile mind. That is why perhaps people see reptile entities all over, its the inhabited constructs of 'their' mind.

Here is a corroborating collection of excerpts from Sri Aurobindo -- I think these compliment the thread (and the underlying theme that ties this thread into others like it). The first quote is from Mirra Alfassa, the rest are from Aurobindo.


Most people who have even a bit of access to the correct mind, can see how this operates in their daily life. The only thing I can say is trust what your correct mind is telling you because a pack of 'their' minds will descendent on you and tell you , you are wrong.

It would seem that all the adverse, anti-divine forces, the forces of the vital world, have descended on the earth, are making use of it as their field of action, and that at the same time a new, higher, more powerful spiritual force has also descended on earth to bring it a new life. This makes the struggle more acute, more violent, more visible, but it seems also more definitive, and that is why we can hope to reach an early solution.

The war in heaven comes to earth, as it above so it is below. And that creates conflict. There is no conflict as I noted early on in this post when correct minds are gathered. Disagreement yes, but correct minds don't create conflict. Put 'their' mind in the mix and conflict is created.

That goes back to being portals for divine energy. The organic portal. You can be an organic or physical portal for 'their' mind, the collective conscioucness or hive mind. Or you can be a portal for somethng cleaner.

One only needs to get into the right mind to do that. You suddenly seem divine, you have greater intelligence, intuition, energy moves through you more easily, suddenly you have god like powers. Transformation, ascencsion, no .

All you did is go to your correct mind. All the crap that 'their' mind promises is already there in the right mind. It does no good to try to use in in their mind.

This war is conducted in our daily lives. One never knows when they are going to set of the 'mine' of their mind. Usually reason, practicality, common sense, character. Something dark rules this planet that's for sure.

Wars. One who was truly on what is called a spiritual path which is basically no more than getting into your right mind would take the side of divine power. One would do that simply by going into the right mind. It knows what to do.

Our Character has been turned into Caricature. That is why character is attacked all the time and others try to make an inhabited construct of a person, trying to bend them into the mold of a caricature.

Instead its protected. It's crazy making to watch people half way in their right mind all disgruntled and peevish over the conflict 'their' mind creates and then goes and chastises the right mind for creating it. The right mind can't create conflict....lol. Then they wonder why more conflict is created. Right minds can get along with each other. "Their' minds as much as they are a collective can't because its energy is looshed by envy, greed and that creates competition and conflict.

So even those people who are feebly trying to herd the sheep are self defeating themselves. Conflict is not abated by cutting out the right mind, their' minds just turn on each other.

Its abated by cultivating right minds.


People will lose everything, they've already lost their minds, until they get into the correct mind. The one intended for them. And that is how soul harvesting is initiated. By agreement. Not by force, or some insidious magick at work. People agree to it.

[9eagle9]

Quote Vivek- The gift of rajas is kinetic force, energy, activity, the power that creates and acts and can overcome; but it moves in the wrong lights or the half-lights of the Ignorance and it is perverted by the touch of the Asura, Rakshasa and Pishacha.

That more than accurately describes how their mind corrupts and perverts purer thought, spiritual practices, clear traditions in metaphysics, energy work, etc as I described earlier. Meditation then just means transcending into their mind. ...lol. Oh boy.



@ Vivek: And equally when we first become aware of the infinite Shakti above us or around or in us, the impulse of the egoistic sense in us is to lay hold on it and use this increased might for our egoistic purpose. This is a most dangerous thing, for it brings with it a sense and some increased reality of a great, sometimes a titanic power, and the rajasic ego, delighting in this sense of new enormous strength, may instead of waiting for it to be purified and transformed throw itself out in a violent and impure action and even turn us for a time or partially into the selfish and arrogant Asura using the strength given him for his own and not for the divine purpose: but on that way lies, in the end, if it is persisted in, spiritual perdition and material ruin.

Yeah. Modwiz remarked to me that people who experience Kundalini events, the first thing they do is shake off the energy and they suddenly 'know' everything. They don't. For the reasons described in the above paragraph. The event happened while their 'mind' was still in power. So thus power is abused. But abuse is a virtue now so its okay. But they go marching out and start dictating to people what they should do. Their mind is still running the show but know it has shakti to power it. Yay, the monster became the super monster.

The bolded portion of the bottom of the paragraph is basically where we are now.

Material and spiritual ruin. Ruin on the physical and spiritual level.

That is where we are collectively. As individuals people in their right mind are not experiencing this.

[9eagle9]

I was casting about for a way to talk about thought forms or inhabited constructs or an example. And I got a call for a reading this morning that was an inhabited construct.

My friend has a neck issue and has to see the chiro a lot. She is a correct mind sort of person, so she went to the chiro, who couldn't help her. So she knows its not a chiro issue, or rather the chiro issue is just the symptom of the problem. Her husband felt she might have picked something up somewhere. So she calls me. Tells me when the pain started and who she was with when the pain started. I didn't get anything from the woman she was with but the place they were in. And the name Katherine.

My friend had no idea who Katherine was. So I said, she was in the space that you visited, the woman you visited is in a place where a lot of pain comes and goes. Someone left something there and it jumped on you.

Then my friend is like 'Oh ****' we had our meeting in her new office that used to be a chiropractice clinic!"

So there we go. Someone named Katherine visited her chiropractor in the past when the space my friend was in was chiro office. I'd imagine a lot of painful ideas come in and out of someplace like that. With the same sort of pain, that was similar to my friends condition. Everyone has an idea about their pain, the longer they have it the more its inhabited, so the pain starts inhabiting the idea. An inhabited construct , or thought form. She gets some relief from the pain from the Chiro so she no longer inhabits the thought form. It detaches from her but most people (or chiropractors) are not excorcists, so do nothing but let the thought form dangle out there.

I do KNOW chiros who clear their offices and even in the right way but not so many of them, anymore than a doctor would. Imagine how much crap someone picks up at a hospital.


So it stays there, and someone like my friend walks in with a similar issue and the thought form senses that familiar issue so latches on in magnetic attraction. My friends pain is similar than its previous hosts so it figures thats where it belongs. It's familiar to it. No evil intentions, it is a psychic attack but its not an intentioned one.

Loooooosh, sluurp splat my friend has an attachment now. But she's in her RIGHT mind so has some idea what to do.

So now she is armed with a basic thorough understand of HER pain, which is not her pain at all. She understands the problem. Just a pain that latched on because her pain seemed familiar. Wound resonance.

So the RX is understand the problem, thoroughly and the solution just 'appears' like magick. There is no problem really, its not her problem. To start feeling that it is a problem will re-inhabit it.

Now she can go to the chiro and have some relief from the real cause of the pain if the removal of the thought form itself doesn't correct entirely the situation. It couldn't be abated by adjustment because the thought form would settle again. It wants the pain to stay there because that is what is most familiar to it. The pain has an organic template, a weakness in the physical body which typically doesn't bother her until 'something' settled in there and started farming.

Remove the energy, the emotion, clearing, one is just left with an empty shell a nothings sort of thought.

So I'm holding a painful, pain in the neck thoughtform. Draw the pain out of it. It doesn't belong anywhere but it has to go somewhere.

So do we hope that i'm in my right mind and I don't toss it to the four winds or should I be in my left mind when I, ahem, take care of this thing?

Fortunately this isn't a situation where majority rules otherwise there'd be a infinite amount of this crap rolling around.

[Sebastion]

Thank you for this thread 9eagle9 as it is one of the most profound threads to come on this forum in a while. One can begin to see now why the world is so insane and how insidious "their" mind is. One can see how easy it has been for "their" mind to infiltrate the mind's of the masses. Political correctness is an excellent example of "their" mind.

[9eagle9]

Politics, policy is a form of polite

Remember we must always be polite to 'their' mind that is destroying us. It's a policy everywhere and enforced by police.

lol.

[another bob]

Ahh but the meme got into humility too. There isn't a single virtue left that the virus hasn't attached itself to.

People live in a state of constant humiliation. For the reason I just described, they appear to be the responsible party in the 'their' mind' bait and switch game. Their mind convinces them its a good idea broad cast their insane ideas so the rational can say "I'm not buying that for very rational reasons". Then they squawk that their feelings are hurt but the next day are at it again.


Humility is really just allowing something higher than your sorry existence to express through you without judging it or letting 'their mind' get hold of it. Keeping the house the way it was intended to be kept.

Humbling yourself before God is one thing, humbling yourself before 'their' mind is exactly what they want.

As opposed to the sort of humility taught today, pull on your forelock and mumble yes sir yes sir three bags full sir so the their mind has a safe environment.

There isn't a single virtue, craft, philosophy, means that has not been infiltrated by them. Because the people that learn them have their mind and the first thing the mind does is change anything that would benefit anyone into a glob of uselessness.

Hiya Chelley!

We apparently have two differing views on what constitutes true humility. I would offer that real humility is not a matter of humilation, or humbling oneself berfore a higher power, but entails the recognition that I do not really know what anything is. In fact, I exist in total state of not knowing, this is my fundamental condition, and so "their mind" has no place to plant a flag. From that place of not knowing, I can see things as they are, without the superimposition of provisional knowledge, which indeed is infected with ego-mind.

To believe that the virus is all-powerful is to indulge in the very sense of humiliation you are talking about, and such sense of doubt precludes the possibility of freedom (which is exactly what "their mind" wants). Granted, few are currently capable of true humility to the extent that they are living "don't know mind" 24/7, but that's why we are practicing in realms like this -- to learn how to do it (through the disciplines of silence and non-dwelling, for example), and to recognize the consequences when we don't. It does require an impeccable integrity, but we have access to great help in that endeavor -- there are many gifts we are constantly receiving to awaken us to our true nature.

True humility IS "getting in your right mind", in other words, and so does indeed represent a viable option, but is only genuine when it is based on the recognition that all methods, schemes, and escape plans one has employed are destined to fail, as long as one is basing them on the presumed reality of a permanent and subtantial person, a "me".

When we try to pin it down, the very self that was believed in need of salvation, awakening, and enlightenment, cannot actually be found. All along, we’ve been trying to modify a phantom, a completely fictional character, composed of bundles of thoughts and memories, but with no inherent and enduring substance. Sri Nisargadatta sums this up succinctly:

“Think for a moment: who is thinking in terms of transformation, changing from one state to another; in terms of self-improvement? Surely, it is nothing other than an appearance in consciousness, a character in a movie, an individual in a dream — a dreamed pseudo-entity considering itself subject to the workings of Karma. How could such a dreamed character ‘perfect’ itself into anything other than its dreamed self? How could a shadow perfect itself into its substance? How could there be any ‘awakening’ from the dream, except for the dreamer to re-solve the true identity of the source of the dream, the manifestation?”

When the implications of this realization finally sink in, the whole momentum of the struggle begins to collapse in on itself, and what we are left with is a kind of natural acceptance. When we are no longer committed to a war with it, we find that we can accept this life, just as it is, and in that forgiving acceptance, come to welcome whatever appears without compulsive grasping, clinging, or avoidance.

In such openness, we gradually notice that everyone and everything is included in this welcoming embrace — not based upon an ideal of love, but anchored in the very clear recognition that loving is the only possible response to life that truly satisfies the heart and returns us to the peace that is our natural and native condition, prior to the adventure of seeking and knowing.
We can surrender trying to be “knowers” (and the fear that not knowing once implied), without imagining ourselves to be some problem in need of a final solution, and without the guilt-filled need of purification, restoration, re-distribution, or transmigration to a superior metaphysical plane. In fact, despite our warts and bumps and goofs, we can be happy.

When we come to rest in the slipstream of total insecurity, complete not knowing, then we become a demonstration of that possibility in the midst of the haunted restlessness that humanity shares in common.

Such deep resting transmutes the inner conflict into creative life force – it was the struggle all along that merely distracted and complicated life’s natural flowing energy, dividing itself against itself in futile efforts to grasp itself, to hold on and not let go, even unto death.

The death of that struggle is the birth of Love, unconditional Love. Unconditional because it is not bound by destiny or contrived design, it is free, selfless real Love, submitted to this dying into life without reluctance or regret.

Yes, at last we can face our own death – the death of fixed belief, of idealistic hope, arrogant pride, the death of poisonous reactivity such as envy, greed, and hatred, the death of any identification, any self-image, any perceived or conceived limitation on our infinite nature, and all in order to demonstrate for each other the Principle that is not touched by death, not touched by impermanence.

This is the perfect service we can render to each other — just being what we are. That is enough. It has always been, and will always be, enough.

[9eagle9]

The self inhabited construction versus self reflection.

There’s a principle of self-reflection that states: if something in someone else is bothering you, you must own it. You spot it you got it? Right?

Not always.Most times naught. Self reflection is only helpful for people in their right mind.

People in their correct mind are annoyed by the insane. They are exhausting, they ruin every good conversation, every party, every solution with their sanity. Everything becomes a drama for 'their' mind to feed on.

They hold the matrix in place and then whine constantly because its there. Urging YOU to do something about it when they are doing it. So when you do something about it you threaten ‘their’ mind. Then they go back to demanding something must change.

Becoming annoyed by insanity is a fairly healthy emotion. So their mind likes this idea of self reflection as a tool of self excavation. It can’t use it but it can manipulate others with the concept.

When you thus become annoyed by them then they can absolve themselves of all blame.

“They are blameless you are just angry”. (or someother emotion they label as appalling, even though they live there themeslves)

“ You are just seeing your own anger in them.” (Again this makes 'their' mind blameless)

If one is annoyed by insanity their mind will try to convince them they are insane because they are annoyed. So the greater portion of blame lies with the ‘right’ mind. the right mind doesn’t buy this **** because…it’s the right mind. It’s operating correctly and knows this is insanity.

Don’t blame the right mind for doing its job. That’s what it is there for.

So the moment you protest insanity, violation, matrix building and crazy making **** its cast right back at you. YOUR FAULT. “Their “mind is blameless.

No, and this is why. The right mind is always more intelligent on its own than a zillion ‘their’ minds. It is essentially ONE mind expressed through many different people. That is why the new age program of oneness is so appealing. Of course it will never work with ‘their’ mind. It only promotes a competitive environment. A war environment.

You can't fight with them. It's frowned on. But if you don't fight with them that's wrong too....lol.

Looking at one’s own self inhabited construct is going to reflect you back. You created it, you empowered it with your emotions, what else would it reflect back? It’s not going to reflect someone else back, its just going to mirror back ‘their’ mind that created it. Hate, envy, anger. Remember the ‘their’ mind hates its host. It only cuts you some slack when you are doing what it wants you to do. If you aren’t its going to prod you into LOOSH mode.

The “reflection cast back by others is you” is only merited if other is not doing something wrong. Getting angry at someone who not doing something wrong is a little irrational. The REAL mirror inside will say to you, "Hey self, you're being a little irrational"

The their mind will never do this.

Look at a person raping a baby. Is that wrong. Yes. Are you angry. If you are in your right mind you are. If you go into forgiveness mode right then you are corrupt, and sick. Sorry you are. And there’s not a person in their right mind who will disagree with me. Not that agreement is necessary to make that so.

Or..do you say to yourself, I’m only angry because I’m a baby raper myself. Even though you are not. But that is what the baby raper with ‘their’ mind will tell you. "You can’t judge me because you are just seeing me in yourself."

That is insane thinking and only the insane would feel that. The right mind KNOWs (not feels) that is wrong.

Obviously people who are insane and being inhabited by ‘their mind’ are wrong. They are not even natural anymore.

If you have an idea about someone and then inhabit it with emotion, anger, hate, greed, envy, when you look at other people who are not really engaged in that sort of thing but are operating within the parameters of the right mind you will only see your own inhabited construction.

Again this goes back to pre-judice. You pre judge a person enough and all you will see is your inhabited construct.

You built it, you inhabited it with YOUR emotions. What else will you expect to see but yourself within. That is the filter you look through. You see what you are composed of. Their mind.

That’s all you will see when you look at anyone it doesn’t matter if they are doing anything wrong or not. If they are agreeing with you and further inhabiting that construct you won’t be see them as such, they are bringing a like energy to your construct.

If you are in your right mind and someone is annoying you are they doing something wrong? If so then you can rightfully be annoyed.

If not…then we look inside.

If not is when you bring out the self-reflection excavation.

The right mind will say okay this person isn’t doing anything wrong yet I’m annoyed by them. Why? Then begin that process to lend to self-understanding. The 'their' mind doesn’t care if anyone is doing anything wrong or not. Hang the innocent with the guilty as far as its concernced as long as it's hide is preserved and remains hidden.

the thing is. Once you get in your right mind, the 'their' mind has no place to hide. It hates anyone who sees it, attacks anyone who sees it and blames everyone who sees it at work.

There are people I work with who begin to annoy me. They aren’t doing anything wrong, they are doing the exact same thing I am. Doing their job. Yet every time they do their job I get more annoyed... why? I’m doing my job but I’m not having quite the success they are with it. O h so there’s a LACK issue here, my dear. Are they taking something from you? NO. But..everytime they open their mouth I’m reminded of lack. My lack. They are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing, so apparently I have an issue. Admittedly that is insane.

I am able to preserve my job (and my credibility) by not screaming at them “Oh you think you are so superior! “ which is what I FEEL like doing. But that would be insane. It has nothing to do with them being superior. They are only doing their job…better than me..lol.

A simple 10 minute process and I’m fine, their fine (they were never the problem anyway), and then my situation resolves itself. Suddenly the energy shifts and I’m successful again. In fact the next day they are in my shoes , not doing so well.

I can commiserate I’ve been there. And i’d be annoyed if they blamed me for not doing so well.

Conversely when a person who is in their right mind attempts to communicate or interact with someone in ‘their ‘ mind the first thing they are confronted with is the inhabited construct. Or what people call masks.. That which those in their mind created. It can’t be ours because we didn’t create it. Blaming us for their creation is usually the norm.

[doodah]

9eagle, thanks for this thread. I once knew a very egotistical man (who knew everything and was better than everybody) who decided he would jump on the new age spirituality bandwagon. Right off the bat he wanted to be everyone's guru, bow down to me, I know everything, I know more than you, I am better than you. I said to him, "You've missed the point."

After Sandyhook I realized that America had missed the point. It's not about guns. One could look at the zillion ways all this crazy thinking has been sanctioned, sanctified, codified, excused, rationalized, and made acceptable in this world, and we might understand why the guy(s) did it. But as to the point as I see it, I've not heard one person say "Don't you think the parents in Syria-Libya-Afghanistan-Africa-South America-Canada-North America-and wherever else in the world, love the children that we kill and mourn them, too? Your children are not special, they're just yours. Wake up!"

I'm ashamed of us that all we see is a gun issue.

As to "rational," you can create a logic-chain any way you want to and justify anything just by the meanings you give to words. They've been screwing with the language for a while now to make unacceptable definitions the norm. Since the same people remain in charge, apparently nobody is noticing that their mind has taken the "rational" mind off on some fantasy island vacation of its own creation. "We need to tear down those rainforests to create more jobs. !!! And by damn we're going to do it, no matter what logic-chain you're using to argue with us."

[9eagle9]

Bob, that's not really what is being talked about here. What real humility is. How humility services me is going to be different because I'm not you. Then people squabble about perceptions. Humility serves right minded people in different ways. The individual . My humility won't serve you...lol. And mine won't serve you.

What the crux of the matter is ...what 'their' mind wants you/us/everyone to think it is.

I appreciate the concepts that you put forward.

unfortunately it goes back to..no one can understand them until they are in their right mind.

[another bob]

Bob, that's not really what is being talked about here. What real humility is.

Hi again Chel!

The comments on humility were in response to your original notes on "envy", to which I was suggesting that humility can serve as an effective antidote, that's all.




..no one can understand them until they are in their right mind.


Agreed, so what works? What enables us to resume/re-gain our natural innocence, freeing us from the foreign installation? As I was suggesting in my comments, the disciplines of silence and non-dwelling, born out of inquiry and the recognition of not-knowing (humility), are powerful tools at our disposal for stripping away the delusion.

Thanks again for your ongoing inquiry into these critical matters!

[PurpleLama]

Now we have Hello Kitty Tarot.
http://img1.etsystatic.com/000/0/6940962/il_fullxfull.340472621.jpg


Holy Crap. I wondered if you were kidding. I can't say how much this appeals to my irreverence/reverence.

[gooty64]

What enables us to resume/re-gain our natural innocence

I like this question a-Bob.

This is what I was working on before I got into to all the conspiracy and new age stuff.

[another bob]

What enables us to resume/re-gain our natural innocence

I like this question a-Bob.

This is what I was working on before I got into to all the conspiracy and new age stuff.

Yep, which perhaps is a good pointer to the possibility that the "conspiracy and new age stuff" is a test to see if we can be distracted from the inquiry into who we really are and what we're here to do.

Blessings, Gooty!

[9eagle9]

I'd say half the reclamation if a value could be put on it would simply be getting out from under their mind and the toxicity of emotions it generates. We would at least be in a better place to know how to reclaim innocence. Seriously when someone is holding your head underwater no one is thinking "Gee this is good time to start that new Jane Fonda Work out".

A return to innocence.....It won't get your virginity back though :)

[Hervé]

[...]

Becoming annoyed by insanity is a fairly healthy emotion. So their mind likes this idea of self reflection as a tool of self excavation. It can’t use it but it can manipulate others with the concept.

When you thus become annoyed by them then they can absolve themselves of all blame.

[...]

Brilliant!

How many "mirrors" have been put up by this "their" (reactive) mind in front of disagreeing faces in order to never address the point of contention?

[9eagle9]

Where you alternately want to puke and scream laughter at the same time.

I'm glad I didn't mention the Brady Bunch deck and the Malibu Barbie Deck.

Now that you've brought that corruption into my thread you have to give me a reading with them.

Actually the Brady Bunch deck would be very archetypical.... or ...is it that stereotypical I'm thinking of.

What would Barnie the Butcher be?




Now we have Hello Kitty Tarot.
http://img1.etsystatic.com/000/0/6940962/il_fullxfull.340472621.jpg


Holy Crap. I wondered if you were kidding. I can't say how much this appeals to my irreverence/reverence.

[9eagle9]

The contention, problem, idea, whatever is never addressed. The idea is never debated over, it becomes a personal attack.

Them: 2+5= twenty-eleventy.

Us: No its 7. Produces two thumbs and five fingers and counts off 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. See. Evidence.
Us: Why would you attempt to pervert mathematics in such a fashion?
US. Where did you ever come up with that?

Them: YOUR ANGRY!
Them: Your not spiritual like us!

That's not only annoying its them trying to create loosh. Make them angry enough and the their mind will get its loosh while leaving people looking like right girt idiots and the annoyed people are escorted from the room, so the idiots can start their system on someone else with the their mind that is well fed on anger.

Sound sane?

No?

Why do we keep doing it?

Because we are conditioned to always protect 'their' mind.

And so until we lose that conditioning nothing will change. That's why nothing HAS changed.

[D-Day]

Ok, so at this point I'm wondering if I'm on the right track as far as the topic of discussion here on this thread is concerned...

It seems to me, based on my initial understanding at least, that there are a few key (and common) factors involved when it comes to minimizing the potential influence or impact of 'their' mind in any given situation.

Firstly, I suppose it goes without saying that one must have awareness of the fact that there is a 'right' mind and a 'their' mind to begin with.

Secondly, it seems fairly obvious that one must also have sufficient knowledge/understanding of the two mind states in order to be able to correctly identify and differentiate between them.

Thirdly, it makes sense that one must have the presence of mind (and composure) to be able to take a step back from a situation when they suspect 'their' mind might be influencing one or more parties involved in that situaiton.

And finally, it seems logical that one must be able to adequately assess each individual involved in the situation (including themselves) in order to establish who is using 'right' mind and who is using 'their' mind, so that the most approriate course of action or approach can then be taken.

At which point, it makes sense to me that if a person has identifed themselves as being the one operating from a 'their' mind state, that the best course of action would be to remove themselves from the siutation and take a moment to try and figure out why that might be the case.

Similarly, it would seem that if a person has identifed other individuals involved in the situation (i.e. not themselves) as operating from a 'their' mind state (and feel they themselves are in 'right' mind), that this person should again remove themselves from the situtation... because (if I understand this correctly) a person using 'right' mind cannot effectively communicate rational thoughts or ideas with a person who is operating from an irrational 'their' mind state. (?)

-------------------------------------

To be honest, I'm not so sure that what I have outlined above is an accurate representation of the basic processes involved in dealing with 'their' mind. Nevertheless, I'm sure that if I've missed something important or taken something out of context that someone here will be able to point me in the right direction and set me straight.

Having said that, I am wondering... does it seem logical for me to conclude that no matter what the situation at hand might be, if a person has established that 'their' mind is manifesting itself in one or more idndividuals involved in the situation, that the best option at that point would always be to walk away and forget about the prospect of finding a workable resolution?


Any thoughts, comments, and/or suggestions regarding this would be appreciated...

[9eagle9]

Yep you summed it up fairly well. A right mind that spirit is capable of working through..... and then the left mind. Spirit won't work through there. Spirit is not insane. It will not inhabit an insane mind and empower it to do even greater acts of insanity.



Having said that, I am wondering... does it seem logical for me to conclude that no matter what the situationat at hand might be, if a person has established that 'their' mind is manifesting itself in one or more idndividuals involved in a situation, that the best option at that point would always be to walk away from the siutation and forget about any propect of finding a workable resolution?


Well yeah you can count on that no 'workable' solution will be found. A solution to keep their safe environment will always be had.

Ah..the crux of the matter. What do we do. Call it out, identify it, warn?

You can't ignore it, it wants your energy. You can't fight with it because it wants your energy. You can only employ logic with it, it doesn't understand reason.

Or leave it alone to breed? It doesn't want you doing anything. This is our social norm, it's created a very safe environment for itself. The very fact you are observing it is a heinous sin to its mind.

With people who are mostly in their right mind, on the threshold of the right mind, or really in the right mind but the mother in law's voice is still really loud, you can pull them aside and go "pssst you are thinking with their mind"

And they'll stop dead in their tracks and start to self reflect.

But for the rest of them on the collective level you can't do that. Its socio-pathic in nature so it seems grotesque to 'just' let the environment be taken over. Cowardly even. We have no right to bitch about anything if we are not doing something about 'their' mind.

And a lot of them have no 'right' mind to move back to.

But then a great deal of conflict will be raised if you 'do' something about it. That's wrong too, remember its created a fail-safe environment where the innocent will get hung and the guilty go out to spread and breed. People just want 'peace' not conflict not realizing that all we have to look forward to is conflict.

I have even hopefully approached spirit and said, "can I count on some sort of mass conscious shifting event you know to burn out the their mind? Some sort of planetary event. Because basically I don't see how 7 billion people can be fixed without some global event?"

Spirit always says "Ha ha, you know better, now go and do your work. Here's your spade go clean the Aegean stables."

Adn then calls after, " you don't have to do it alone, maybe find some others who are in their right minds, want to be in their right minds? Oh and this doesn't all have to be accomplished in one life time"

Even right minded people are not aware that their mind composes at least, at THE least, 80 percent of the population. It's infiltrated everywhere. Even though we have vast amounts of readily available knowledge, symptoms, detailed specifics on the programs they run...nothing changes. Again the safe environment--its rude to confront their mind. You're bad, rude, angry whatever character flaw they can summon.

These are not our political leaders or powers that be, this is people all around us in spiritual and religious communities, 'nice' people, people in internet forums, people in the alternative community, neighbors, family.

So that is the crux of the situation. What do we do. This is not a situation where one person can do everything or even anything. One person on an individual level can do the measures that you suggested. But do we abandon right minded people. I don't think right minded people can abandon each other. I've never ever been in a situation where the herd was attacking and another right minded person didn't step up and call it out.

Whatever is to be done, it will cause a great deal of conflict.

But as I was responding to this post I was skyping with another forum member and he nogged me noggin.

But ..Complete social and economic breakdown, the grid goes down, and the basis of our 'their mind' its 'safe' environment crumbles.



Ah...what will 'their' mind do. Their mind people can be counted on to do what their mind has always done. What they do right now.

1) wait for someone to save (feed) them (in packs), cry, whine, mewl and make someone feel sorry for them

2) rape, violation, energy theft, run in packs


What will right minded people do. Take them in, feed them so they leech and continue to spread their infection. Maybe, but....maybe not. But the righ minded may be interested to know that is where they can get the upper hand by saying to these lost people "You have a choice. I will keep you and feed you but in return you are going to do something about that mind you are using."

For the rest.....they will very likely turn on each other and destroy themselves once right minded people determine they will not be running the rape, violation, energy theft on their few remaining members.

I see a lot of David Wilocks in the world and always see them being Neidermeijered when such an event should occur. In 2012 they bought his books, in 2015 they ate him with pine nuts and a dash of red pepper.



¤=[Post Update]=¤

I too am interested in any suggestions.

[gooty64]

Hey OP, will Free Energy fix "their mind" problem?;)

[9eagle9]

We are their free energy units.

"OUR' free energy is a different matter. I'm not saying that free energy devices don't exist, or can't be made. I'm saying nothing is really free, an exchange has to be made to keep any energy in motion. What we experience is paying 45 dollars for a 1 worth of energy.

I hate my electric bill really I do but no one is holding me by the throat in Frozen Michigan. I've had electric bills that were 900 dollars (i could then afford to pay such a thing) but no one held a gun to my head and shouted, heat 2500 square feet of space in a house that is insulated for sub tropic weather. It is a source of aggravation to me, so I got a wood stove, and am re-thinking some other options including moving somewhere where half my money isn't spent trying to stay warm.

Any energy device made or created is not going to be 'free' one has purchase materials to make it. people who know the device to keep it running. Free doesn't mean that it will never break down.

One could learn to build a free energy device but they will still have to spend on materials and repairs. I've seen lots of schematics and talk of free energy, I've seen members here posting up their own energy devices, some of them crude, but the effort was made. I'd like to say I don't have the brain power to do that but I say that about a lot of things I managed to do on my own by staying in my right mind.

I think the concept of 'free' energy is really theirs in terms of the words itself FREE Energy.. They are accustomed to just taking and having everything for free. Energy is mutually reciprocal. They know this. Thats why there is so much "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours' policies in their dealings.

But yes if right minded people were the ones to manage the whole proposition you would see a transformed energetic world.

One day someone in their right mind will create a device, eschew all 'their' trappings and begin to offer it to right minded people either in construct or schematics...for free. Those people in their right mind will offer an equal exchange of energy, perhaps based on how much they saved being off the tit of ''their' grid, so the person can continue their work of providing 'free' energy.

That person who does that will be summarily attacked by 'their' mind. In our best interests I think its a good idea to prevent attack on that person.

Right now we have a 'gimme' gimme attitude about free energy that is their rather parasitical nature at work. Using 'their' mind to determine how things should be with energy outside the natural occurring circumstances of energy.

[Freed Fox]

Thanks 9eagle9. I would suggest the bright side is that there has been some change, but for the most part it has been on an individual basis. You yourself noted how you rooted out the envious energies in your personal sphere. I too would like to pursue a more systemic, cultural solution, but perhaps we have not reached the tipping point in which that becomes possible (especially if you're right about the 80% using 'their' mind). What we don't know for certain is if right mindedness is becoming more prevalent (even if subtly or very slightly), or perhaps more people are coming into a state of being where being right minded is now possible?


So that is the crux of the situation. What do we do. This is not a situation where one person can do everything or even anything. One person on an individual level can do the measures that you suggested. But do we abandon right minded people. I don't think right minded people can abandon each other. I've never ever been in a situation where the herd was attacking and another right minded person didn't step up and call it out.

Whatever is to be done, it will cause a great deal of conflict.

I would love to offer a solution, but so far I've got nothing unfortunately...

[9eagle9]

A solution is not necessary if the problem no longer exists. We are given this life, our life, to manage. Mass solutions unfortunately clump in other 'their' minds so are dead in the water before they are even concieved. Often times the people advocating 'their' solutions don't practice them themselves.

A solution then turns into an idle belief.

The one thing the course in miracles falls down on is the presumption that if you fix your own mind, other minds will follow. That is not true. Lots of people fixed their own minds but i didn't see a whole lot following suit. I am left to conclude that in fixing one's self one is no longer contributing to the matrix field they are used for as batteries to keep the field up. You are no longer damaging your brother. Instead people take a course in miracles and turn into a means of being self righteous 'I'm so pure" . They are no longer perhaps putting the field up but neither are they doing anything in educating others in how they contribute to that field. That is not helping your brother.

Many people would be appalled and have expressed how appalled they were at how they contributed to the matrix field, building their own prison for themselves and others.

Other's don't care or dismiss it. In the 'their' mind purity it doesn't apply to them.

I know when I contribute to that field or one of the 'their' minds are dogging me for a reactive state I'm not doing myself or even people I really don't much like in the first place any favors. Yes even though I am not rapturously in love with the whole world neither do I want to contribute to the prison that people create for themselves.

I employ a little humour in dealing with 'their' mind. For MY own sake, because any humour directed at their mind takes it all too seriously, feels like its being mocked and it does not like that. It looshes its host still but do you take all the humour and laughter out of the world so it can feel safe?

Sending love to their mind is no solution. Laughing at it is, humour is high vibration. Logic has a certain ironic bent to it especially when its employed in the midst of a great self created drama. Their mind perceives this as hatred, arrogance and mocking.

Right minded people don't mind a little fun poked at them. They can laugh at themselves.

Gooty is a good one for that, for an immediate example, his humorous view of the world causes one to laugh instead of despair. He has no answers but he's not further entrenching in the world in the field.

Like the move the Matrix showed. People used as batteries to keep the Matrix in place. The energy of others to keep the matrix in place.

No philosophy is complete and people turn things into a religion. The course in Miracles Practices however can breakdown help one initialize a breakdown of their mind.

Like Pyromania "It drives it crazier" You drive something crazy enough it has an utter breakdown. The entire construct bursts at the seams. It was hard, it was depressing, my 'their' mind fought and attacked and yanked the chains of my emotional field but I could feel the change come over me. But eventually over a few week span I had that break I was initiating a clear separation of my right mind and their mind.

I am not saying ACIM is the solution for everyone i'm sure there's similar practices. But their mind can take anything and twist any practice and philosophy as a means to serve itself.

But I had a crack to work in that allowed something purer to come in. And then when that happened I owned my own knowing, and it just expands outwards and keeps expanding sucking up that space so the 'their' mind has a harder time existing.

I know lots of right minded people who never went anywhere near ACIM, it just happened to be the tool I worked in for a very intense period of time. As I grew more right minded I could see that the philosophical aspect of it was very flawed and not very comprehensive in terms of understanding the problem, or addressed individual needs. It needed sister and companion disciplines to make it work worthy.

ACIM doesn't fully lend a complete understanding, and one can get stuck there. It is meant to be transcended by one's own knowing. I stay out of the religious philosophical part of it because I can see how that could so easily be re-translated by their mind. And when one has their knowing they can transcend ACIM. But the practices are quite good for breaking down 'their' mind.

If anyone has other practices for breaking down the 'their' mind I'd love to hear them. It's really about mental discipline, when one learns that the learn to keep their emotional state cleaner.

But basically that's where I'm at. Not repairing, building, contributing to the matrix field that holds us. That's the only thing I can do for all of humanity in one shot-not feed the field. Eventually if we get enough people and it doesn't have to be everyone then the field gets weak. All energetic fields need a feed.

[another bob]

If anyone has other pratices for breaking down the 'their' mind I'd love to hear them. It's really about mental discipline, when one learns that the learn to keep their emotional state cleaner.

"People often ask how the mind is controlled. I say to them, 'Show me the mind and then
you will know what to do.' The fact is that the mind is only a bundle of thoughts. How can you extinguish it by the thought of doing so or by a desire? Your thoughts and desires are part and parcel of the mind. The mind is simply fattened by new thoughts rising up. Therefore it is foolish to attempt to kill the mind by means of the mind. The only way of doing it is to find its source and hold on to it. The mind will then fade away of its own accord."

~Sri Ramana Maharshi



"But basically that's where I'm at. Not repairing, building, contributing to the matrix field that holds us. That's the only thing I can do for all of humanity in one shot-not feed the field. Eventually if we get enough people and it doesn't have to be everyone then the field gets week. All energetic fields need a feed.

Nisargadatta: Somehow, people do not trust the simple, the easy, the always available.

"Why not give an honest try to what I say? It may look very small and insignificant, but it is like a seed that grows into a mighty tree. Give yourself a chance!

"I simply followed my Guru’s instruction which was to focus the mind on pure being ‘I am’, and stay in it.

"I used to sit for hours together, with nothing but the ‘I am’ in my mind and soon peace and joy and a deep all-embracing love became my normal state.

"In it all disappeared -- myself, my Guru, the life I lived, the world around me. Only peace remained and unfathomable silence.

"Whatever happened, I would turn my attention away from it and remain with the sense 'I am', it may look too simple, even crude. My only reason for doing it was that my Guru told me so.

"Yet it worked! Obedience is a powerful solvent of all desires and fears. Just turn away from all that occupies the mind; do whatever work you have to complete, but avoid new obligations; keep empty, keep available, resist not what comes uninvited.

"In the end you will reach a state of non-grasping, of joyful non-attachment, of inner ease and freedom indescribable, yet wonderfully real.

"Nothing stops you but preoccupation with the outer which prevents you from focusing on the inner. It cannot be helped, you cannot skip your spiritual practice. You have to turn away from the world and go within.”

"As long as you are engrossed in the world, you are unable to know yourself: to know yourself, turn your attention away from the world and turn it within."

Questioner: "What is the course of training in self-awareness?"

Nisargadatta: "There is no need of training. Awareness is always with you. The same attention that you give to the outer, you turn to the inner. No new, or special kind of awareness is needed.

"What you need is to be aware of being aware. Don't be misled by the simplicity of the advice. Very few are those who have the courage to trust the innocent and the simple.

"The all important word is 'try'. Alot enough time daily for sitting quietly and trying, just trying, to go beyond the personality, with its addictions and obsessions.

"You just keep on trying until you succeed. If you persevere, there can be no failure.

"It is not a matter of easy, or difficult. Either you try or you don't. It is up to you."

[Hervé]

[...]

If anyone has other pratices for breaking down the 'their' mind I'd love to hear them. It's really about mental discipline, when one learns that, they learn to keep their emotional state cleaner.

[...]

:fish2: :bigfish:

... hhmmm, yummy, slimmy, wiggly worm... Slurp!

It's about a method and a whole body of technologies dedicated to that very purpose: addressing and getting rid of that "their" mind... namely Dianetics which couldn't help but lead to Scientology.

Dianetics is the bare bone method of addressing trauma and a whole gamut of other things by releasing, bit by bit, the emotional charge accumulated on any subject or type of incident.

However, with it, Dianetics practitioners ran into a quagmire of problems; not the least of which was running into memories of former lives, in-between lives, etc... with that also came another quagmire of problems due to "Whose memories" was one addressing (see this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?19206-The-Inelia-thread&p=207800&viewfull=1#post207800) <---)? Because, for whatever reasons, Hubbard got arm-twisted into NOT including past lives memories into the Dianetics book.

With the Dianetics research results, the delineation between the memory lines of the biological entity, the mind and the "awareness of awareness" unit became clearer and labelled as Protoplasmic/Genetic line, the "Reactive Mind" line and the "Analytical Mind" or "Spirit" or "Thetan" line.

With the discovery of the "Spirit" line of memory, Dianetics entered the very field reserved to "religion"... couldn't escape from it... hence "Scientology."

Has seen and explained by Steve Richards (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?38458-Dreamtime-Healing-Using-Holographic-Kinetics), the "Spirit" line is the most ignored and therefore "Spirit" ends up giving up and behave in a manner of something to the effect of "To hell with you!"

The Dianetics and Scientology methods of eradication of that "Reactive/'Their' mind" were designed to maintain that balance of exchange between individuals via "Twinships" where each pulls his/her "twin" out of the emotionally charged pits, step by step, on a turn-about basis.

Unfortunately, it didn't take 3 centuries for the "their" mind to turn Scientology into a boobby-trapped mine field like with christianity... it took it only less than 30 years. That's a 10-X speeding up. Accordingly, one would only find the salvaged portions of the methodology and technologies in what is called the "Independent field" or with the "Freezoners".

Having learnt, with Dianetics, how the "their/reactive" mind can't help but react, the emphasis was switch from "That's what's wrong with you!" to, to take something applicable to alternative media: "How would you like to be more discerning?" That is, how to enhance one's abillity as a Spirit rather than focusing energy to what's wrong with one. Incidentally, Hubbard discovered, also, that Dianetics -- by thouroughly focusing on the "their/reactive" mind -- was giving the "their/reactive" mind all importance (flowing all attention/energy to it) and was ignoring "Spirit" and therefore "Spirit's" response of "To hell with you!" That was another reason for the implementation of Scientology and its emphasis on developping "Human Abilities." Hence the manhunt unleashed by TPTB because enhancing human abilities is a definite "No-no" in their psychopathic universe.

Anyway, that's about the most succinct I can be on that very vast subject.



PS: Dianetics book free PDF: http://www.scientology-london.com/resources/Dianetics_The_Modern_Science_Of_Mental_Health.pdf

[9eagle9]

I found Dianetics quite helpful. And yep its pretty apparent 'their' mind got hold of it and it evolved into Scientology.

I know a lot of people who benefited from it without getting sucked into Scientology part of it. Including myself, way back, ago, I think it was in the late 70's/ early 80's . My mother bought it and said Hubbard looked like a fruit (or a pervert I don't remember which ) and wouldn't read it...lol . So I picked it up had a big AH-HA and Wow moment.

You see a lot of spiritual gurus who came from Scientology feeling equipped to instruct everyone else. They probably aren't, that is quite a protocol that is at work there, a masterpeice actually of progamming, new age BS pales in comparison: principles of right mindedness inhabited by their mind. My philosophy for those sorts of people is " They had an opportunity there to reclaim their right mind, and they got sucked into it. I didn't. So I think I'll stick with my own advice for that reason.

What is funny is I've never met a practicing Scientology. EVER , usually former. They have herd mentality which is part of the 'groupy groupy let's be exclusive 'and exclusionary 'their' mind-set. That naturally grew into a religion for the wealthy. It take a lot of money to be 'exclusive' . Their minds always need some organization to hide in.

How people leave the Scientology thing or not get sucked into the big heavy hitting part of it appears to have a pattern among former scientologists.

They go into the early Dianetic-ish portion of it and basically get fairly well de programmed. Then there is this sort of threshold place depending on how emotionally stable someone is. Not having a programmed existence is not familiar to them so they want the subconscious programs again. It's safe and familiar for them. So they gravitate and end getting a whole new protocol run on them.

Some of them think , Oh my god I'm in my right mind and bolt out the door. Goodbye Scientology. Some few go down that road but because they know what a program is they see it coming and get the hell out of dodge.

I've run deprogramming protocols on quite a number of former Scientologists they all said the same thing. There is this tipping point when you access your right mind and you can then tip either way. Get out with your free mind or have another protocol run.

Anyway I think I'll read it again, it may serve me better as an adult then a 13 year old and I don't have my mother hanging over my shoulder saying Hubbard is a 'fruit'.

[PurpleLama]

A little willpower and some free time, every day. Decision to be silent and still, and everything that moves is it, "their mind". Be mad, be bat sh!t crazy, for a little while, as it flails about with being recognized. A little more will power and the line is drawn, you're you, not "it". It's everywhere in this crazy world, be crazier in the face of it. The hardest/easiest part is realizing one's identity is a fake, some edge up to that realization and take off running the other way like their butt's on fire, which in a way, it is. Others go a little further, and whammo, you are what you are, nothing is easier, nothing to it.

[another bob]

A little willpower and some free time, every day. Decision to be silent and still, and everything that moves is it, "their mind". Be mad, be bat sh!t crazy, for a little while, as it flails about with being recognized. A little more will power and the line is drawn, you're you, not "it". It's everywhere in this crazy world, be crazier in the face of it. The hardest/easiest part is realizing one's identity is a fake, some edge up to that realization and take off running the other way like their butt's on fire, which in a way, it is. Others go a little further, and whammo, you are what you are, nothing is easier, nothing to it.

This free e-book, from the contemporary American teacher Adyashanti, has been mentioned over at Chris Greybeard's "Enlightenment/Ego" thread, but worth checking out in relation to this discussion, since it is an accesible toolbox dedicated to the same result -- Liberation.

http://www.adyashanti.org/library/The_Way_of_Liberation_Ebook.pdf

[ROMANWKT]

If anyone has other pratices for breaking down the 'their' mind I'd love to hear them. It's really about mental discipline, when one learns that the learn to keep their emotional state cleaner.

"People often ask how the mind is controlled. I say to them, 'Show me the mind and then
you will know what to do.' The fact is that the mind is only a bundle of thoughts. How can you extinguish it by the thought of doing so or by a desire? Your thoughts and desires are part and parcel of the mind. The mind is simply fattened by new thoughts rising up. Therefore it is foolish to attempt to kill the mind by means of the mind. The only way of doing it is to find its source and hold on to it. The mind will then fade away of its own accord."

~Sri Ramana Maharshi



"But basically that's where I'm at. Not repairing, building, contributing to the matrix field that holds us. That's the only thing I can do for all of humanity in one shot-not feed the field. Eventually if we get enough people and it doesn't have to be everyone then the field gets week. All energetic fields need a feed.

Nisargadatta: Somehow, people do not trust the simple, the easy, the always available.

"Why not give an honest try to what I say? It may look very small and insignificant, but it is like a seed that grows into a mighty tree. Give yourself a chance!

"I simply followed my Guru’s instruction which was to focus the mind on pure being ‘I am’, and stay in it.

"I used to sit for hours together, with nothing but the ‘I am’ in my mind and soon peace and joy and a deep all-embracing love became my normal state.

"In it all disappeared -- myself, my Guru, the life I lived, the world around me. Only peace remained and unfathomable silence.

"Whatever happened, I would turn my attention away from it and remain with the sense 'I am', it may look too simple, even crude. My only reason for doing it was that my Guru told me so.

"Yet it worked! Obedience is a powerful solvent of all desires and fears. Just turn away from all that occupies the mind; do whatever work you have to complete, but avoid new obligations; keep empty, keep available, resist not what comes uninvited.

"In the end you will reach a state of non-grasping, of joyful non-attachment, of inner ease and freedom indescribable, yet wonderfully real.

"Nothing stops you but preoccupation with the outer which prevents you from focusing on the inner. It cannot be helped, you cannot skip your spiritual practice. You have to turn away from the world and go within.”

"As long as you are engrossed in the world, you are unable to know yourself: to know yourself, turn your attention away from the world and turn it within."

Questioner: "What is the course of training in self-awareness?"

Nisargadatta: "There is no need of training. Awareness is always with you. The same attention that you give to the outer, you turn to the inner. No new, or special kind of awareness is needed.

"What you need is to be aware of being aware. Don't be misled by the simplicity of the advice. Very few are those who have the courage to trust the innocent and the simple.

"The all important word is 'try'. Alot enough time daily for sitting quietly and trying, just trying, to go beyond the personality, with its addictions and obsessions.

"You just keep on trying until you succeed. If you persevere, there can be no failure.

"It is not a matter of easy, or difficult. Either you try or you don't. It is up to you."

The question is why Bob what is its purpose, why why why , what is its goal??

Regards to you Bob

roman

[another bob]

The question is why Bob what is its purpose, why why why , what is its goal??

I'm sure that, like me, you do not relish being the bitch of some delusion. Consequently, the aim is to awaken to the absolute nature of reality, and then to live it to the fullest extent possible, rather than being yanked around by lies, addictions, and false beliefs.

"We are no doubt at a very critical point in time. Our world hangs in the balance, and a very precarious balance it is. Awakening to reality is no longer a possibility; it is an imperative. We have sailed the ship of delusion about as far as she can carry us. We have run her ashore and now find ourselves shipwrecked on an increasingly desolate island. Our options have imploded. "Wake up or persish" is the spiritual call of our times. Did we ever need more motivation than this?"
~From the aforementioned e-book by Adyashanti

[ROMANWKT]

The question is why Bob what is its purpose, why why why , what is its goal??

I'm sure that, like me, you do not relish being the bitch of some delusion. Consequently, the aim is to awaken to the absolute nature of reality, and then to live it to the fullest extent possible, rather than being yanked around by lies, addictions, and false beliefs.

"We are no doubt at a very critical point in time. Our world hangs in the balance, and a very precarious balance it is. Awakening to reality is no longer a possibility; it is an imperative. We have sailed the ship of delusion about as far as she can carry us. We have run her ashore and now find ourselves shipwrecked on an increasingly desolate island. Our options have imploded. "Wake up or persish" is the spiritual call of our times. Did we ever need more motivation than this?"
~From the aforementioned e-book by Adyashanti

Wake up to what Bob, we are awake and we still have to deal with the physical to correct the physical, we wake up and then what Bob??

Regards

roman

[another bob]

Wake up to what Bob, we are awake and we still have to deal with the physical to correct the physical, we wake up and then what Bob??

Not to be disrespectful, but I have already answered that, Roman, if you'll re-read my previous response. However, might I suggest that, rather than allowing yourself to be played by discursive mind, you actually give it a go, wake up yourself, rather than speculating about it, and then your questions will be undermined by what is true and obvious. Until then, you can run around with your questions and ponderings like a dog chasing its tail, and only end up with a mouthful of fur.

:yo:

[doodah]

Damn. Twice now I've written out a long post and my computer has either crashed or Avalon has told me I'm not logged in (even though I was) and erased my post. Okay, I'll try again.

The question, 9eagle, was whether or not you think it's possible for those of us who seem to need not much more teaching to unite even though we're using different languages? I mean, within the various teachings mentioned here, there are different languages - words mean specific things which "outsiders" don't know the meanings of. I don't speak scientology or ACIM, but through my own path which I will call "High Metaphysics" although it really has no name, I know what you're talking about even if I have to translate the words for myself. Most of the people on this thread seem to share core concepts, which is where we can intersect and unite -- if uniting is an objective? Maybe it isn't?

I say that because most of the people I know who are outside the matrix to some degree or other - no matter by what route they got there - seem to be isolated. Is it an objective of the their-brain paradigm to keep us separated? What do you think?

[ROMANWKT]

Wake up to what Bob, we are awake and we still have to deal with the physical to correct the physical, we wake up and then what Bob??

Not to be disrespectful, but I have already answered that, Roman, if you'll re-read my previous response. However, might I suggest that, rather than allowing yourself to be played by discursive mind, you actually give it a go, wake up yourself, rather than speculating about it, and then your questions will be undermined by what is true and obvious. Until then, you can run around with your questions and ponderings like a dog chasing its tail, and only end up with a mouthful of fur.

:yo:

I have the greatest respect for your knowledge in these matters, if I did not I would not be here asking from the depth of your mind and knowledge, that your doctrine purpose is to brake away from the wheels of this matrix life, my question is why? even knowing that we are nothing more than battery power to other powers, why, where do you think you are going after that my friend, that make this particular process a life long importance, why? what the goal outside of this??

with the greatest respect Bob what is the actual deal here.

roman

[another bob]

...what is the actual deal here.

Freedom or slavery -- your choice.

Perhaps we should take a step backward with this, however. For example, have you ever sat down and taken the time to inquire into what it is you really want out of life? What is your primal yearning? Unless you are clear about your fundamental motivation, you wil be filled with why's and yet never really amount to anything other than a dilletante of consciousness, tasting this or that morsel of borrowed wisdom, but never really getting the full meal.

Most folks who approach these matters have never taken the time to inquire into their real motivation, and so just end up assuming second-hand attitudes they've borrowed from elsewhere. I can't provide you with motivation, Roman, it must come from your own longing to realize the truth for yourself. You must decide for yourself what the goal is, regardless of what I may suggest. If your goal is to improve your physical situation, fine -- there are many ways to do that, but is that your heart's most intimate desire?

Do you know what that is? Truly? Have you gotten down with your own core longing? If so, you need not question me another moment, you will go straight for it. Most have not taken the time to really inspect themselves in that regard, and so are de facto vehicles for "their mind", the subject of this thread. I'll leave you with that for now. May it serve you!

Blessings!

[ROMANWKT]

I have looked into every way possible from every angle and position possible from my mind not to proceed with the purpose of empowering people to their full potential that your doctrine hides from us all, I most defiantly understand the possible misdirection of people perusing of their full potential here on this plane which is a total no no from your doctrine as one may attach one self to deeply to free oneself from this cyclic existence, that is the reason for my questioning you for the reason why, and that would also be the reason why this knowledge is hidden from all by your doctrine, please stop me proceeding, again with the greatest respect,,,,why?

roman

[another bob]

I have looked into every way possible from every angle and position possible from my mind...


http://i48.tinypic.com/wcixjn.jpg

[ROMANWKT]

I have looked into every way possible from every angle and position possible from my mind...


http://i48.tinypic.com/wcixjn.jpg

I then presume from that answer above that you will not explain why, one should not totally empower oneself, and deal with power with the powers that interfere with humanity, is that acceptable from you??

regards

roman

[9eagle9]

Yeah we don't really need a unified language, we all understand what the other is although the terminology is different. One says ego mind, reactive mind, their mind, personal demons but we all seem to understand the Core. In spite of the terminology we understand the core concept and share it.

Their mind depends on programmed languages where words are redefined easily and no longer mean what they mean.

It is yes an objective of 'their' mind to keep us separated. Several right minds together is a dangerous thing. Suddenly everyone notices their mind at work. They keep us separated by crazy language that says we are all one, when on an individual basis, we are, right from the starting gate, divided within ourselves. Divided people don't understand that, so flog the we are one ticket, flog the impossibly dead horse that was never alive in the first place because they don't realize (or care) their mind is divided.



Damn. Twice now I've written out a long post and my computer has either crashed or Avalon has told me I'm not logged in (even though I was) and erased my post. Okay, I'll try again.

The question, 9eagle, was whether or not you think it's possible for those of us who seem to need not much more teaching to unite even though we're using different languages? I mean, within the various teachings mentioned here, there are different languages - words mean specific things which "outsiders" don't know the meanings of. I don't speak scientology or ACIM, but through my own path which I will call "High Metaphysics" although it really has no name, I know what you're talking about even if I have to translate the words for myself. Most of the people on this thread seem to share core concepts, which is where we can intersect and unite -- if uniting is an objective? Maybe it isn't?

I say that because most of the people I know who are outside the matrix to some degree or other - no matter by what route they got there - seem to be isolated. Is it an objective of the their-brain paradigm to keep us separated? What do you think?

[Freed Fox]

Hi Roman,
Are you referring to the Karmic Wheel, that general model of the reincarnation concept? If so, my understanding is the same as yours, which is basically to avoid any attachments to this existence. I wouldn't mind hearing what another bob has to say about that either, but I'm also afraid this might be derailing 9e9's thread just a bit...

[another bob]

I have looked into every way possible from every angle and position possible from my mind...


http://i48.tinypic.com/wcixjn.jpg

I then presume from that answer above that you will not explain why, one should not totally empower oneself, and deal with power with the powers that interfere with humanity, is that acceptable from you??

regards

roman

On the contrary, I would suggest yet again that, unless you find out who and what you really are, you are in no position to empower anyone else, much less yourself. Furthermore, your insistence on using your mind to liberate your mind is like giving the thief a key to your house, while expecting not to be robbed. Good luck with that!

:rolleyes:

[greybeard]

Im not very articulate at the moment but here goes.
Im with Bob.

The question is what do you accept as true?
I accept 1000s of years of enlightened souls saying the same thing.
There is no personal self that's an illusion.
Modern thinking talks of a conscious universe --of holographic universe etc
There is no duality -- no separation.
The question to ask is "What is asking the question?"
After some time the questioner drops away and the question is redundant.

Adyashanti says that " What you are waking up from is the me"
The ego/me cant wake up because its just a bundle of thoughts/self definition that we temporarily give value to.
What you held to be true yesterday does not hold water today--- the mind pulls this way and that.
The I is constant, unchanging and is not affected or influenced by these thoughts.
The I witnesses what is happening--- it observes.
Action may take place or not.
The I can be very intimate with a situation, have great compassion yet see that is is passing and has only a temporary reality.
What is true must be true at all times and in all situations.
The I is permanent truth.
Einstein said more or less "You will not solve a problem with the same energy which created it"
For thousands of years people have tried to combat violence with violence---the same mind set.
Gandhi came with a different mind set and see what happened there.
So by raising spiritual vibration/energy above that which caused the situation --the situation can be resolved harmoniously.

Chris

Ps the important question is What am I?

[ROMANWKT]

I have looked into every way possible from every angle and position possible from my mind...


http://i48.tinypic.com/wcixjn.jpg

I then presume from that answer above that you will not explain why, one should not totally empower oneself, and deal with power with the powers that interfere with humanity, is that acceptable from you??

regards

roman

On the contrary, I would suggest yet again that, unless you find out who and what you really are, you are in no position to empower anyone else, much less yourself. Furthermore, your insistence on using your mind to liberate your mind is like giving the thief a key to your house, while expecting not to be robbed. Good luck with that!

:rolleyes:

Understood, you have brought upon your self to judge who and who isn't, further more I could not empower a match stick, one has to empower one self, I see that you had to use that mind of yours to answer me, what the difference??

Regards as ever

roman

[ROMANWKT]

Im not very articulate at the moment but here goes.
Im with Bob.

The question is what do you accept as true?
I accept 1000s of years of enlightened souls saying the same thing.
There is no personal self that's an illusion.
Modern thinking talks of a conscious universe --of holographic universe etc
There is no duality -- no separation.
The question to ask is "What is asking the question?"
After some time the questioner drops away and the question is redundant.

Adyashanti says that " What you are waking up from is the me"
The ego/me cant wake up because its just a bundle of thoughts/self definition that we temporarily give value to.
What you held to be true yesterday does not hold water today--- the mind pulls this way and that.
The I is constant, unchanging and is not affected or influenced by these thoughts.
The I witnesses what is happening--- it observes.
Action may take place or not.
The I can be very intimate with a situation, have great compassion yet see that is is passing and has only a temporary reality.
What is true must be true at all times and in all situations.
The I is permanent truth.
Einstein said more or less "You will not solve a problem with the same energy which created it"
For thousands of years people have tried to combat violence with violence---the same mind set.
Gandhi came with a different mind set and see what happened there.
So by raising spiritual vibration/energy above that which caused the situation --the situation can be resolved harmoniously.

Chris

Ps the important question is What am I?

Thank you Chris for that and contrary to others belief I had understood what you had said, but you're herding people towards breaking out of the matrix cycle, its a clear question,,,why

Most grateful Chis and thank you

roman

[another bob]

Understood, you have brought upon your self to judge who and who isn't....

No judgment required on my end, by your questions you reveal yourself.




I see that you had to use that mind of yours to answer me, what the difference??

Using the mind to participate in conversation is its natural function. It is only when it tries to grasp itself that it become a tail-chaser. Even a clear mind can only bring you to the threshhold, it cannot take you through the door. For that, something else is necessary, and the rational mind will never provide that something else. It can't, because that is not its function, nor does it want to relinquish its throne.

This is what you will never understand, as long as you insist on relying on discursive mind. I truly feel for you, and all who are so bound, but there is a way beyond that, an as yet untried option, which is letting go of the struggle, as counter-intuitive as that might seem. Again, nothing I can say will give you the necessary motivation to let go, only when all your other options, schemes, and strategies have revealed their futility will you become available, and only then can something happen.

[ROMANWKT]

Understood, you have brought upon your self to judge who and who isn't....

No judgment required on my end, by your questions you reveal yourself.




I see that you had to use that mind of yours to answer me, what the difference??

Using the mind to participate in conversation is its natural function. It is only when it tries to grasp itself that it become a tail-chaser. Even a clear mind can only bring you to the threshhold, it cannot take you through the door. For that, something else is necessary, and the rational mind will never provide that something else. It can't, because that is not its function, nor does it want to relinquish its throne.

This is what you will never understand, as long as you insist on relying on discursive mind. I truly feel for you, and all who are so bound, but there is a way beyond that, an as yet untried option, which is letting go of the struggle, as counter-intuitive as that might seem. Again, nothing I can say will give you the necessary motivation to let go, only when all your other options, schemes, and strategies have revealed their futility will you become available, and only then can something happen.

Understood, thank you.

Regards

roman

[Hervé]

...


:pound:


It seems that few people truly understand what this guy said a few 1000s years ago:



"Don't blindly believe what I say. Don't believe me because others convince you of my words. Don't believe anything you see, read, or hear from others, whether of authority, religious teachers or texts. Don't rely on logic alone, nor speculation. Don't infer or be deceived by appearances."

"Do not give up your authority and follow blindly the will of others. This way will lead to only delusion."

"Find out for yourself what is truth, what is real. Discover that there are virtuous things and there are non-virtuous things. Once you have discovered for yourself give up the bad and embrace the good."

- The Buddha

Another guy more recently said something similar:


"What is true for you, is what is true"
L Ron Hubbard

Which basically means that until, and unless, one can make it one's own, own it for having experienced it, whatever "it" stands for, and KNOW it for what it is; well, it ain't true!


That's that!

[greybeard]

Thank you Chris for that and contrary to others belief I had understood what you had said, but you're herding people towards breaking out of the matrix cycle, its a clear question,,,why

Most grateful Chis and thank you

roman

Hi Roman
im just sharing what I have found to be helpful and debating.
If a question is asked or something I share requires clarification--I look at my own take on it and may modify a seeming statement.
Its not my responsibility to herd or even to guide--- in a way Im talking to myself, in writing I clarify my position.
Which quickly brought to mind--- "The moment you take up a position know that you are identifying with an illusion" Thats a quote from A course in Miracles.
So im self monitoring to remove all belief systems and concepts---I never had dogma as the path of enlightenment is not a religion, has no dogma, is not an experience, is not a belief system---- a belief is not a reality---enlightenment is the natural state so not a belief.
There are paradoxes in this but that’s the essence.
Why have I spent 30 years on this?
I am devoted to discovering/uncovering the Truth.
Yes I am guided by those who trod the path before me and discovered that they are the Truth--- One without a second.
The totality all of it.

Regards
Chris

[9eagle9]

Chris gonna have to tell you the same thing I mentioned to Abob, I appreciate what you say, I know where you are coming from but


There is not even a personal self when people have two minds in their psyche. A personal self is a desirable state compared to what is being discussed here. I'm sorry but there is duality. Real duality, self created duality, illusionary duality, what else could a person have if they are of two minds?

It must exist otherwise there would be no need for ACIM. That is a solution therefore the problem it addresses must have exist some place in our perceived reality. Maybe not in the ultimate reality but we can't find our arse with both hands right now let along go to the 'ultimate' reality place.

That is REALITY to people and just saying 'there is no personal self' just doesn't make it so. One has to be given the tools to comprehend HOW there is no personal self.

Just repeating to people who do not have the MEANS of understanding this is ....1) frustrating to them 2) counterproductive, and then eventually verges on abusive--their mind at work.

People who are caught in an illusion can comprehend that they are in an illusion, they see evidence of it but while the illusion maker is still running the projector its little use to tell them about reality or goals.

Telling an alcoholic to 'just stop drinking and alcohol is only an illusion' does little to help them stop drinking. It seems pretty real to them at the time. It's pretty personal. Alcoholics do not stop drinking because they are informed there is not 'personal' self.

Same thing here.


This is what i mean about higher spiritual concepts being turned into something de-humanizing. Institutionalized. Because they are reduced to just concepts if the avenues of experiencing them are not given to people. There is real suffering and people who are told 'oh just be' get angry. They have no common frame of referenc to know non personal self states and personal self states. You can tell me that when I get my panties in a wad and I can go there. But if everyone were like that, we'd have them there. Then we wouldn't be here.

People have to first be provided the means of comprehending reality. If they did not, none of this would require any sort of discussion.


Then reality the goal becomes an inhabited construct. Only an idea with some energy behind it, not a state of being. The state of being becomes institutionalized. Then the goal and reality begins to lose credibility before people can even begin to realize it.

What you are talking about is the goal. What I'm talking about is the means to the goal. You have the horse and I have the cart. I can't even get people to acknowledge the cart . People have to have the means to the goal in order to reach the goal. This conversation is square one, a comprehensive understanding of why we can't even have a personal self let alone what you describing. If you can understand what I mean. At this point in time a personal self would be a vast improvement over the conditions most people experience. It would be a collective leap for humanity if people were even aware they could have a personal self.

I understand that people who post 'the goal' are well meaning but it turns into abuse when we repeatedly ask people to do what they are quite incapable of doing without having some basic understanding of what is preventing them from attaining the goal.

Dear Albert, the problem was created by the stagant, do everything the same way over and over again, their mind. We are going to attempt to resolve that by now moving into our right minds. It has an entirely different energy.

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying but when we ask people or imply that people reach a place, repeatedly, that they can not achieve because a basic groundwork has not been achieved then it becomes abusive.

Before that it becomes counter productive.

[another bob]

...


:pound:


It seems that few people truly understand what this guy said a few 1000s years ago:



"Don't blindly believe what I say. Don't believe me because others convince you of my words. Don't believe anything you see, read, or hear from others, whether of authority, religious teachers or texts. Don't rely on logic alone, nor speculation. Don't infer or be deceived by appearances."

"Do not give up your authority and follow blindly the will of others. This way will lead to only delusion."

"Find out for yourself what is truth, what is real. Discover that there are virtuous things and there are non-virtuous things. Once you have discovered for yourself give up the bad and embrace the good."

- The Buddha

He also said that life is dukkha -- unsatisfactory, stressful, suffering. In fact, this was the first "noble truth" that he proclaimed, after his awakening. For the next forty years, he did nothing but offer a path to freedom from suffering. So, here is the motivation: we can examine our own lives and see that, whether things are going along smoothly or maybe not so smoothly, there is still a persistent element of dissatisfaction to it. The closer we look, the more we recognize how this sense of dis-ease is in fact a superimposition, a foreign installation, since it is not natural to our original being. It represents a chronic contraction of our energy, in body, mind, and emotion. Do we need any more motivation to relieve ourselves of this? Do we need to fish around for some rationale for emancipation, when we finally begin to realize the extent to which we have cooperated in our own enslavement?


more here:

http://theconsciousprocess.wordpress.com/2012/09/26/the-pursuit-of-happiness/

[greybeard]

hi 9eagles9
as you probably know I am a recovering alcoholic.
So the parallel is that others showed me that there was another way and set an example even gave me twelve steps.
So its the same with the spiritual --others further along the path wrote the books-- I was given choice.
Now I do the same--- I share what was given me--- it was my choice to pick it up.
More and more people are picking up and looking for identification with what is spontaneously happening,
Kundalini spontaneously woke within me ---if I did not have acces too people more knowlegable than m I would have thought I was loosing my mind.

Frustration and all things will be experienced whether a person is seeking or not.
My personal experience is the slowly but surely the me starts to leave centre stage, the mind become quieter peace prevails, thats something of value to share as is AA.
Naturally the persona remains but that's not the same as being driven by wants needs and desires.

Regards Chris

[modwiz]

What is real? It's re:all. Regarding all. The nature of reality.

Quantum science/physics reveals a world where the observer is everything. The Multiverse is full of units of consciousness that will be waves or particles depending on how we choose to observe them. One way of looking at this data is to conclude that there is nothing “there”. Everything is illusion and nothing is real. This conclusion is reached by looking at the data with ‘their’ mind and their definition of reality and what is real. Einstein had trouble with and refuted some of the deeper findings of Bohr’s and others of the Copenhagen School. He could not accept that God played dice with the Universe. His god concept was one of ‘their’ mind. ‘They’ do not want us knowing about the nature of reality because it is not the reality ‘they’ are creating for us with ‘their mind’. It can be reasonably stated that all dominant cultures, however unique, are part of ‘their’ mind. This is how the Matrix is built up. The role of the observer is everything so controlling the mind of the observer becomes everything. The P in the PTB can stand for programmer and is actually a more correct term. “Their” power is all in our heads. All in our programming by them. It was put there by them. There is not a spiritual tradition of note that has not been infected with ‘their’ mind. Actually, it either gets infected or disinfected. If it can’t be made to replicate the virus it will be rendered sterile. The Yaqui knowledge is potent because it got out before it could be meddled with. So, ‘they’ kill the source and discredit him posthumously. This is disinfection.

The nature of reality requires both right and left brain capabilities operating in parallel to be able to perceive what is contradictory or overwhelming information otherwise. Einstein might have understood more if he wasn’t so mental body dominant. It was this cool intellectual nature that allowed him and other great intellects to allow for atomic weapons being unleashed on humanity again. The same detachment we hear about certain off-planet entities.

I want to commend 9eagle for picking language about an extant issue that often gets burdened down because other language for describing this phenomenon has been around long enough to be defined by ‘them’.

[Hervé]

[...]


"Don't blindly believe what I say. Don't believe me because others convince you of my words. Don't believe anything you see, read, or hear from others, whether of authority, religious teachers or texts. Don't rely on logic alone, nor speculation. Don't infer or be deceived by appearances."

"Do not give up your authority and follow blindly the will of others. This way will lead to only delusion."

"Find out for yourself what is truth, what is real. Discover that there are virtuous things and there are non-virtuous things. Once you have discovered for yourself give up the bad and embrace the good."

- The Buddha[...] Do we need any more motivation to relieve ourselves of this? Do we need to fish around for some rationale for emancipation, when we finally begin to realize the extent to which we have cooperated in our own enslavement?

[...]

I don't and many here don't either but unfortunately the vast majority of earth population does.

The start on how to relieve one self of enslavement is contained in that same quote. However, even that, is too high of a gradient for too many as pointed by 9eagle9 in her post above yours and as I pointed to you way back when in this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?46887-From-Bill-Ryan-the-Ultimate-Hypothesis&p=520292&viewfull=1#post520292) (<---).

[9eagle9]

I totally understand that.

A dozen other people may scratch their heads and say what is he talking about-- his personal experience?, if he claims there is no personal self.

I understand what you are saying; conversely I also understand their point of view as well.





hi 9eagles9
as you probably know I am a recovering alcoholic.
So the parallel is that others showed me that there was another way and set an example even gave me twelve steps.
So its the same with the spiritual --others further along the path wrote the books-- I was given choice.
Now I do the same--- I share what was given me--- it was my choice to pick it up.
More and more people are picking up and looking for identification with what is spontaneously happening,
Kundalini spontaneously woke within me ---if I did not have acces too people more knowlegable than m I would have thought I was loosing my mind.

Frustration and all things will be experienced whether a person is seeking or not.
My personal experience is the slowly but surely the me starts to leave centre stage, the mind become quieter peace prevails, thats something of value to share as is AA.
Naturally the persona remains but that's not the same as being driven by wants needs and desires.

Regards Chris

[another bob]

[...]


"Don't blindly believe what I say. Don't believe me because others convince you of my words. Don't believe anything you see, read, or hear from others, whether of authority, religious teachers or texts. Don't rely on logic alone, nor speculation. Don't infer or be deceived by appearances."

"Do not give up your authority and follow blindly the will of others. This way will lead to only delusion."

"Find out for yourself what is truth, what is real. Discover that there are virtuous things and there are non-virtuous things. Once you have discovered for yourself give up the bad and embrace the good."

- The Buddha[...] Do we need any more motivation to relieve ourselves of this? Do we need to fish around for some rationale for emancipation, when we finally begin to realize the extent to which we have cooperated in our own enslavement?

[...]

I don't and many here don't either but unfortunately the vast majority of earth population does.

Well, I am speaking to the people involved here in this thread, not to the masses of world, but in any case, I find that argument a somewhat arrogant one -- the assumption that the average joe can't understand the mechanics of suffering, once it is pointed out to them in simple terms, and my understanding is that we are using this opportunity here to clarify it for ourselves, just so that we can in turn share such realization with others.

Interestingly enough, speaking of Buddha, when he first awakened, he felt that what he had realized would never be understood by people, it was too far beyond their ken, and so decided to keep it to himself. Fortunately, he was persuaded otherwise, and so elaborated the nobel truths and the eight-fold path, and millions have since benefitted.

[Freed Fox]

Well said, Modwiz. Especially this bit:


Actually, it either gets infected or disinfected. If it can’t be made to replicate the virus it will be rendered sterile.\

What I wonder about is how many it takes to dismantle or 'hack in' to the programmers' reality. And would this take a new and unified version of reality or merely the acknowledgement/refusal of this illusion?

[Hervé]

[...]

People have to first be provided the means of comprehending reality. If they did not, none of this would require any sort of discussion.


Then reality the goal becomes an inhabited construct. Only an idea with some energy behind it, not a state of being. The state of being becomes institutionalized. Then the goal and reality begins to lose credibility before people can even begin to realize it.

[...]

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying but when we ask people or imply that people reach a place, repeatedly, that they can not achieve because a basic groundwork has not been achieved then it becomes abusive.

Before that it becomes counter productive.

And that's the crux where most methods fail: no gradients in the approach.

Believe it or not, but that became the main point of the Scientology "Bridge": how to undercut the gradient of approach in order to get "Joe 6-packs" off the TV couch and bring him, step by step, to have enough "right" mind (theta) in order to start dealing with actual reality. That was the whole of the research from the mid-50s to the late 70s before the "Church turned into a money machine: eliminate, one by one, the road blocks en route to one's use of one's "right" mind.

The first step in the whole process is how to get somebody "in-there" that one could communicate to, instead of having the whole circuitry and constructs of the "their/reactive" mind... that was the breakthrough! The rest of the "Bridge" was then easier and easier from there on till someone could fully occupy their "right" mind and operate from that space.

[Jeffrey]

9, it's been almost one year since you posted this:





We are not supposed to be allowed to say anything about perverting and corrupting sacred things. Including ourselves. We are sacred beings. In doing so we might hurt their feelings. They may not feel good. I have to let them corrupt because their ego may get hurt.

But it is somehow okay that the peer group watching these people should be okay with the corruption. It's okay to make us watch it but we shouldn't remark on it. That is like asking your peer group to watch you rape a child. Or perform a satanic act.

That creates a space for it to grow.

I’m not going to do that anymore. And I'm going to support those who are decicing not to do that anymore. My mistake is that I thought it was none of my business, and these nice perverts will be quick to tell me it’s none of my business. But if my business lies in what is sacred and divine and spirit and human, then it most certainly has become my business .

Our business.

One of the oldest wisdoms that we know is "The truth hurts".

But it only hurts those who resist it.

If I’m a spiritual being and something is trying to corrupt me or you, its my business because you are sacred too. I SEE you. Now it’s our business. We have every right to care take and nurture our business.

We should no more ignore this perversion than we should ignore a child, an innocent, being raped by a pedophile. We wouldn’t do that would we? But there's this expectation we should ignore it in each other. Some people have expressed I should just ignore and accept them 'as they are' in their corrupt form...just because it makes them feel good.


What do we have to do? Nothing. We don’t need to kick anyone’s arse. The peaceful warrior just knows what they are seeing and calls it out so everyone else can see it as well. That's it.


Peaceful warriors are not nice to perversion; they are not to kind corruption, they don't fertilize the garden it grows in. You name me one reason why they should? Isn't that what we came here for, to take care of our business? To end corruption not ignore it or deny it.

The first answer I’ll get will be in relation to someone’s feelings. We are not our feelings, we are infinite beings. One of the traps that was set was that anything that felt good ....must be love. Is drugs and alchohol over use and abuse love?

We KNOW. This is the year that we should make it okay to know this.

Much of our sacred stuff has been corrupted into scared stuff. Take the Bible. There’s a lot of wisdom in the Bible and the Catholic Church took it out and rewrote it. And then rewrote it again to make the wisdom scary. And someone re wrote it again and again.

When you take sacred out, it transposes into scared. It’s been perverted. It’s been made fear based. We know that perverts stalk children out of fear of intiating healthy relationships with people of their own equality. Out of fear they abuse innocense to empower themseles. There is no appreciable difference.


People think they have the right to use the holy grail as a chamber pot, but we're not supposed to say anything. Or object.

Buddhism has been corrupted, so has Christianity, so has healing modalities. Not the ptb doing it. They initiated it and we perpetrated it. Not then, or ago....but now.

Light, love, spirit, wisdom, truth--all been corrupted into something other than what it really is. All based on our feeling and if something makes us 'feel good'. the truth doesn't make us feel good sometimes so now the truth is evil.

We are using something sacred , including ourselves, for a purpose other than what it was intended for . Perversion. Corruption. For our own ****zngiggles. For our own kicks. How does this make us any different than the ptb? The ptb who prey on us and use us for their own self gratification.

Denial. As if denying or ignoring it will correct the corruption.

A lot of people don’t think I have the right to notice this or make comment on perversion and corruption. I am a human, I am for better or worse part of the human race. That right there gives me the right and entitlement to observe what people are showing under my nose. To SEE perversion and corruption. It gives you the right as well.

Jeez perversion used to have enough sense to hide itself, now its just parading right in front of our eyes.

When peole are using the sacred using it to entertain themselves with or to make themselves or someone else ‘feel good’. This is the basis of the human corruption. The basis of addcition, now emotional addiction. It’s imposed on us and we accept it. This is how a thousand people who rule the world by corrupting and perverting can continue doing so. They just intiated the growth of more perversion. People can corrupt each other now and they don't have to lift a finger. The ptb knows how much value we put on our feelings, they know that we'll drift to anything that feels good.

It’s an addiction. Using the sacred just like using an addictive substance to make one feel good..

They are abusing the sacred including themselves, and the people who encourage them are spreading it.

And anyone who points this out ……is called an abuser. You’re mean. You’re dark. You’re evil. You’re an operative.

If you have the sacred and we see you abusing it, we have every right to mention it. If you feel stupid afterwards, stop doing it. But we also know why you cannot and that too will become part of this thread.

What else has been perverted besides love, spirit, wisdom and truth. The manifests that grow from those things.

Like psychic, like channeling, healing things of that nature.

So do…let’s talk about what we are seeing . Those who have started to wake up and coming into an awareness of reality are not quite sure what they are seeing but they are aware something is not adding up. This thread is intended to make a space who wish to speak about what they are becoming aware of as they awaken.

Source: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40165-Perversion-and-Corruption-of-Namaste-and-other-things-that-have-been-corrupted...../page16


I could not see what you were saying or fully recognize the ideas being put forth -- it's a very elusive truth.

Reading this now is incredible to me (getting more out of it than I did then). The way it reads presently, for me, doesn't even resemble the way it looked a year ago. I could go on, but that isn't why I'm posting.

I think this excerpted portion is relevant enough to copy and paste in this thread (for added emphasis). :)

Thanks.

PS - Another post from that thread: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40165-Perversion-and-Corruption-of-Namaste-and-other-things-that-have-been-corrupted.....&p=443666&viewfull=1#post443666

[9eagle9]

One person.

Their mind is a crude negative image of the right mind. Instead of the ability to create as our right minds are gifted with, it can only re-plicate.

It runs off a collective, its unholy and infectious, and the virus spreads and the replicating spreads between minds. That is what i mean when there is no personal self at that level.

How? By mimicking the right mind. It mimicks it in a corrupt way.

The correct mind has the ability to share (not infect) and co create (not infect and replicate) between more right minds which is more towards what non personal self is.

it suffices to say though one person can get into the program and start fizzzzzzting out the program. Which is what we are doing here. The moment you see a program running and you call it out...its exposed.




Well said, Modwiz. Especially this bit:


Actually, it either gets infected or disinfected. If it can’t be made to replicate the virus it will be rendered sterile.\

What I wonder about is how many it takes to dismantle or 'hack in' to the programmers' reality. And would this take a new and unified version of reality or merely the acknowledgement/refusal of this illusion?

[Hervé]

[...] I find that argument a somewhat arrogant one -- the assumption that the average joe can't understand the mechanics of suffering, once it is pointed out to them in simple terms...

[...]

Please, let us know how successful you've been!

[another bob]

[...] I find that argument a somewhat arrogant one -- the assumption that the average joe can't understand the mechanics of suffering, once it is pointed out to them in simple terms...

[...]

Please, let us know how successful you've been!

How would you suggest success be measured? In fact, measurements are a particular conceptual device that "their mind" thrives on, the whole comparative meme is about separation and division, winning and losing.

In any case, if one person is helped to awaken by our work here, then we have been of service.


Edit to add this quote, which seems pertinent:

"There is nothing more insidiously destructive to the attainment of liberation than self-doubt and cynicism. Doubt is a movement of the conditioned mind that always claims that "it's not possible ... that freedom is not possible for me." Doubt always knows; it "knows" that nothing is possible. And in this knowing, doubt robs you of the possibility of anything truly new or transformative from happening. Furthermore, doubt is always accompanied by a pervasive cynicism that consciously puts a negative spin on whatever it touches.
Cynicism is a world view which protects the ego from scrutiny by maintaining a negative stance in relationship to what it does not know, does not want to know, or cannot know. Many spiritual seekers have no idea how cynical and doubt-laden they actually are. It is this blindness and denial of the presence of doubt and cynicism that makes the birth of a profound trust impossible. A trust without which final liberation will always remain simply a dream."

~Adyashanti

[9eagle9]

Thank you Vivek, admittedly I remember you getting the 'aha' moment in the midst of that thread. And your own work since that time has demonstrated that. I just stuck it out there you did the work. More along the lines of I come from a place of : Corruption exists.

You went and found out the many reasons why it exists from the organic to the non-physical.


We KNOW. This is the year that we should make it okay to know this.


I may have been wrong. Maybe its this year its okay to know this now that the hysteria over 12-21/12 has had its rug pulled out from under it and they don't have so much fuel to feed 'their' mind with. Reeling about disorganized and without a 'their' mind to cling to.

Then again, maybe it was last year. I note the absence of custom made personalized hysterical anger/ fright in this thread compared to that one. All the difference in the world when right mindedness
is allowed a space.

One thing always stuck in my mind about that thread. A member coming in and screaming that I was attacking 'her' yoga.

I never mentioned yoga. I've never attacked yoga. I have no beef with yoga whatsoever. . Particularly the member's yoga. I had no idea who the poster was so how could I even know what 'their yoga' was all about. Thinking with emotions. "I feel like she's talking about me and my yoga"

Honestly though that poster did nothing to me and everything to themselves.

That is why bring up uncomfortable topics, they are uncomfortable to read but not nearly as uncomfortable as shooting yourself in the foot with them.

I do this though because I hate people.

*smile*

[Belle]

I've experienced what it feels like to someone who has spent the day taking amazing photographs only to find they've left the lens cap on...

I've spent most of my life on what I thought was a spiritual journey...reading, studying, meditating, taking classes, having experiences, looking within, clearing shadows...only to find that none of it made has much of a difference. In the end, there was always some kind of self-sabotage keeping me from clarity.

In the last six months, though, something has changed...digging deep within to pull as much crap as possible out, being merciless and going beyond being emotionally controlled by 'memories' that contradicted my image of myself...I began to understand that it was my very own emotions that were betraying me, sidetracking the work I'd been attempting, herding me into politically/spiritually acceptable 'groupthink'. The programming ran so deep that no matter which way I turned, I'd end up spewing acceptable platitudes and attitudes...I had to see it before I could root it out.

Spiritual studies of whatever sort...and I've studied most of them...never even hinted at something that imo should be foundational. Until I was clear...could see clearly without being at the mercy of my automatic emotional reactions...it could have been spelled out, explained word by word, shown in pictures, and I would not have understood. I was so busy 'stilling my mind(s)', 'forgiving', 'unconditionally loving' and 'observing without judgment', that I was unaware of my own blindness! Now I think of all the times I'd made comments about 'being of two minds' about something. I really was...

This thread has been very timely...it was begun a few weeks after I experienced being in my 'right mind' for the first time in my life.

I am so grateful to 9eagle9... and modwiz for his thread... for taking the time to explain it all in a way that makes total sense to me.

Perhaps now all the work spent 'building a bridge' between my right brain and left brain will bear fruit!

[D-Day]

Yep you summed it up fairly well. A right mind that spirit is capable of working through..... and then the left mind. Spirit won't work through there. Spirit is not insane. It will not inhabit an insane mind and empower it to do even greater acts of insanity.



Having said that, I am wondering... does it seem logical for me to conclude that no matter what the situationat at hand might be, if a person has established that 'their' mind is manifesting itself in one or more idndividuals involved in a situation, that the best option at that point would always be to walk away from the siutation and forget about any propect of finding a workable resolution?


Well yeah you can count on that no 'workable' solution will be found. A solution to keep their safe environment will always be had.

Ah..the crux of the matter. What do we do. Call it out, identify it, warn?

You can't ignore it, it wants your energy. You can't fight with it because it wants your energy. You can only employ logic with it, it doesn't understand reason.

Or leave it alone to breed? It doesn't want you doing anything. This is our social norm, it's created a very safe environment for itself. The very fact you are observing it is a heinous sin to its mind.

With people who are mostly in their right mind, on the threshold of the right mind, or really in the right mind but the mother in law's voice is still really loud, you can pull them aside and go "pssst you are thinking with their mind"

And they'll stop dead in their tracks and start to self reflect.

But for the rest of them on the collective level you can't do that. Its socio-pathic in nature so it seems grotesque to 'just' let the environment be taken over. Cowardly even. We have no right to bitch about anything if we are not doing something about 'their' mind.

And a lot of them have no 'right' mind to move back to.

But then a great deal of conflict will be raised if you 'do' something about it. That's wrong too, remember its created a fail-safe environment where the innocent will get hung and the guilty go out to spread and breed. People just want 'peace' not conflict not realizing that all we have to look forward to is conflict.

I have even hopefully approached spirit and said, "can I count on some sort of mass conscious shifting event you know to burn out the their mind? Some sort of planetary event. Because basically I don't see how 7 billion people can be fixed without some global event?"

Spirit always says "Ha ha, you know better, now go and do your work. Here's your spade go clean the Aegean stables."

Adn then calls after, " you don't have to do it alone, maybe find some others who are in their right minds, want to be in their right minds? Oh and this doesn't all have to be accomplished in one life time"

Even right minded people are not aware that their mind composes at least, at THE least, 80 percent of the population. It's infiltrated everywhere. Even though we have vast amounts of readily available knowledge, symptoms, detailed specifics on the programs they run...nothing changes. Again the safe environment--its rude to confront their mind. You're bad, rude, angry whatever character flaw they can summon.

These are not our political leaders or powers that be, this is people all around us in spiritual and religious communities, 'nice' people, people in internet forums, people in the alternative community, neighbors, family.

So that is the crux of the situation. What do we do. This is not a situation where one person can do everything or even anything. One person on an individual level can do the measures that you suggested. But do we abandon right minded people. I don't think right minded people can abandon each other. I've never ever been in a situation where the herd was attacking and another right minded person didn't step up and call it out.

Whatever is to be done, it will cause a great deal of conflict.

But as I was responding to this post I was skyping with another forum member and he nogged me noggin.

But ..Complete social and economic breakdown, the grid goes down, and the basis of our 'their mind' its 'safe' environment crumbles.



Ah...what will 'their' mind do. Their mind people can be counted on to do what their mind has always done. What they do right now.

1) wait for someone to save (feed) them (in packs), cry, whine, mewl and make someone feel sorry for them

2) rape, violation, energy theft, run in packs


What will right minded people do. Take them in, feed them so they leech and continue to spread their infection. Maybe, but....maybe not. But the righ minded may be interested to know that is where they can get the upper hand by saying to these lost people "You have a choice. I will keep you and feed you but in return you are going to do something about that mind you are using."

For the rest.....they will very likely turn on each other and destroy themselves once right minded people determine they will not be running the rape, violation, energy theft on their few remaining members.

I see a lot of David Wilocks in the world and always see them being Neidermeijered when such an event should occur. In 2012 they bought his books, in 2015 they ate him with pine nuts and a dash of red pepper.



¤=[Post Update]=¤

I too am interested in any suggestions.

Hi 9e9, thanks very much for this response.

You answered my question/s really well, and I now know exactly what is required of me.

Better to take a stand and challenge 'their' mind when the opportunity presents itself than to ignore it and hope it just goes away or sorts itself out in due course... because we all know that ain't gonna happen.

It is clear to me now that no person in their 'right' mind would (or should) allow 'their' mind to have a free pass so it can continue to affect/infect others.

Ultimately, that would only serve to further empower 'their' mind, and none of us should ever be OK with letting that happen.

[doodah]

@9eagle:
It is yes an objective of 'their' mind to keep us separated. Several right minds together is a dangerous thing.

So for our own protection we have to stay separated? Then how can we work together? There's a reason why you put this thread in "Futuretalk," looks like we need to get really creative.

It is my understanding that some of what has emerged in "new age" material are parts of the oldest teachings on this planet -- from the ancient mystery schools. If that is true, then it seems like we're stuck in the same old circle: hide the knowledge or they'll kill you, or at least they'll pervert the knowledge.

No matter what you may have thought about Dec. 21, 2012, there was intention among many people to join together on that date, to party or to meditate or do whatever. My intention had been to join an open-air drumming circle. The weather leading up to Dec. 21 was fine, the forecast was very mild and conducive to an open-air circle. The day before, a cold front swept through here "from out of nowhere," and the day of, we had 50 mph winds and bitter cold. The midwest of the US was suddenly having a blizzard. Being of suspicious mind, I don't believe for a second that any of that was "natural." It looks to me like a very effective way of separating us by making it very difficult for us to get together physically.

Do you suppose that if we get together physically we might actually create a whole new universe -- one that their-mind isn't in?

[greybeard]

Lack of a gradient has been mentioned.
People have different starting points--- some begin with positive thinking books to improve their self image-- some have a life threatening illness.
The right books/ teaching appears when the person has a desire to change their lives.
Here we are debating amongst ourselves-- a group of people who are interested in various things.
A starting point can be conspiracy theories and a desire to change the world.
Then there is the question --How to?

One of the best books I have read is "Power vs Force" by the late Dr Hawkins--- that explains human gradients---personal vibration with calibrated levels of the energy of everything under the sun and there is nothing but energy.
An explanation of why things come about and why people act the way they do.
It explains attractor fields, the Heisenberg principal, some simple Quantum Physics.
It takes a person in graduated way from where they are to as far as they want to go.

136 thousand visits to this thread (link below) which has many different methods of moving forward, suited to most levels of beginning to look for the Truth of what they are, or just wanting self improvement--countless videos--many contributors.
Now I just share on that thread what interests me as do others--- look at the sustained interest over several years on that solitary thread.
People are visiting because they want to.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.



This is a link to the book Power vs Force---
http://www.veritaspub.com/product_info.php?products_id=147
Its well worth visiting just to read about the book.

Chris

[greybeard]

A thought.
You can not change the world unless you are first prepared to change yourself.
That means a change of mind, a change of perspective.

Chris

[Belle]

Sometimes its just a matter of how a person best understands something.

When I would try to explain something to my ex-husband, I had to say it in as many different ways as possible...there would be a blank stare and a 'what are you talking about' look on his face...until I finally said it in a way he could understand. Inevitably he would say, 'so why didn't you just say that the first time?' Well, I did...and the third and fifth and tenth...'

I did read "Power vs. Force"...and many, many other books...including a study of ACIM. I tried many spiritual teachings, including buddhism. Tho' I did benefit greatly, they did not speak my language...and all seemed to promote their own particular formula and had their own particular 'bent'...imo.

Others may not understand what this thread is about, and benefit from something else.

I just kept throwing out a big SOS to the universe...and trusted I would be lead to my own epiphany in time. That was the hard way...much easier when others share their perspective and experience...in a variety of ways...one of them should trigger an 'Aha' moment. Had I come across this information in this particular way sooner, I could have saved a lot of time and energy.

No one way is 'better' than another. This is not 'one size fits all'. It just depends on what fits the individual.

[9eagle9]

To remain separated is their objective, and accounts for the genocide of many indigenous people (not just the ones in the Americas) going back thousands of years. Much new age material is based on older wisdoms, and traditions that help one to circumnavigate the world. However it has been infiltrated and made unsacred by 'their' mind. LIke the Hello Kitty Tarot.

Not to say that Tarot ever had some holy quality to it. Sacred simply means uncorrupted. You corrupt something anything and its no longer in its functional state. It can no longer serve its function and Tarot was an important means of self exploration. It can no longer serve you.



If the world is illusionary and its really not we just don't see it the way it is, these older traditions can help us , as tools, not beliefs to pick our way from a prison, from the inside out. The word 'world' encompasses a lot of things. to say that we created the earth is not neccesarily a bad thing, we perhaps may have done that while in the right mind. Where people confuse self created and illusions. it's easy to do since people mostly keep 're-creating' illusions that don't serve them and form more of a prison.

Thats why I say we don't see the world for the way it really is.

With that said its only their objective, and because of that we have all the more reason to seek out right minded people.

I expressed my views based on observation of what really occured on 12-21-12, something did happen. Most of the BS had the rug pulled out from under it. It was an epochal marker, based on an astrological event. New AGE BS made it into something it was not, but if one knows what it really meant to represent one experiences more clearly what it 12-21-12 was all about.

I have had numerous experiences of interference with consorting with right minded people. It's a favored practice of 'their' mind. However one reaches a certain point where the abilty to be tampered with in such a fashion can't occur anymore.

My own personal universe is seldom infringed on by 'their' mind. Least affected by them. Their mind is a very predicatable artifact. That is where our power in circumnavigating them should lie at. But in actuality no one can be entirely free of 'their' mind until everyone is.

The only way we can truly 'get together' is to tame their mind. Yes. It's more of a probability now than it was even a year ago. We simply make the choice to do so.

[9eagle9]

The course in miracles though is guis material. It's not meant to be quoted. That is where it turns on itself and how it turns on itself is by design. It's intentional or guised to challenge you. Will your ego mind take this twist it to dogma.

I've used ACIM as tool. The material drives the ego mind insane until breaks down. The practices do the same. The ego mind has no defense against them.

Then that's it. Mission accomplished.

People have told me you have to read ACIM many times to understand it.

After reading it yay so many times I realized (the better part of reality) the first time someone quoted ACIM at me they were taking a position.

ACIM was designed that way. The first time someone quotes it they've done the very thing that ACIM said not to do. Take a position.

It's a inner journey. While I recommend it as a breaker, I don't recommend as quotional material because it states it was not designed for that. I don't ever quote it for that reason, I only recommend it. In quoting it I am taking up a position. That is when it starts to involve into dogma, the very thing that ACIM is not intended for. Thus that is demonstrated back to a person if they are aware .

ACIM is a very very clever document I can't deny it. For that reason I recommend it, but I don't recommend quoting it or using it as philosophical material . The material itself can be debated but it warns against using it in debate for this reason. You've then done the very thing it has suggested you not do.




Thank you Chris for that and contrary to others belief I had understood what you had said, but you're herding people towards breaking out of the matrix cycle, its a clear question,,,why

Most grateful Chis and thank you

roman

Hi Roman
im just sharing what I have found to be helpful and debating.
If a question is asked or something I share requires clarification--I look at my own take on it and may modify a seeming statement.
Its not my responsibility to herd or even to guide--- in a way Im talking to myself, in writing I clarify my position.
Which quickly brought to mind--- "The moment you take up a position know that you are identifying with an illusion" Thats a quote from A course in Miracles.
So im self monitoring to remove all belief systems and concepts---I never had dogma as the path of enlightenment is not a religion, has no dogma, is not an experience, is not a belief system---- a belief is not a reality---enlightenment is the natural state so not a belief.
There are paradoxes in this but that’s the essence.
Why have I spent 30 years on this?
I am devoted to discovering/uncovering the Truth.
Yes I am guided by those who trod the path before me and discovered that they are the Truth--- One without a second.
The totality all of it.

Regards
Chris

[greybeard]

Still work in progress 9eagle9 in my case.
thanks
Chris

[9eagle9]

We all are. The gradients you mentioned earlier.

[TargeT]

Their mind is a very predicatable artifact. That is where our power in circumnavigating them should lie at.

You have said this before and even offered some evidence of it. (overly defensive when pointed out, corrupting etc..)

I think (at least for me) it would be benificial if you could expand on this point a bit (maybe with examples, or ?). It seems to be an important part & helping to identify (internally) what actions / feelings / responses are indicitive of "their mind" corruption would be very helpful for those of us in the early stages of this work.

Thanks!

[CdnSirian]

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52563-Subtle-Running-Program-s-of-Self-imprisonment-Part-1

This post covers some of the same topic. (If you missed it before. I did!) Just saw it while searching for another thread...

[D-Day]

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52563-Subtle-Running-Program-s-of-Self-imprisonment-Part-1

This post covers some of the same topic. (If you missed it before. I did!) Just saw it while searching for another thread...

Hey CdnSirian, thanks for linking to the above post/thread (started by Lisab).

I had not come accross it previously, which I'm slightly annoyed about after having just read the post in its entirety.

... some good stuff in there as far as I'm concerned.

IMO it provides a nice bit of variation on the concepts we've been discussing/exploring here on this thread (same stuff essentially - just using some slightly different language and terminology).

I also found it innteresting that this post/thread got NO replies whatsoever, although I guess that's somewhat indicatvie of the fact that this kind of material tends to make a lot of people feel "uncomfortable".

Nevertheless, I think this post - which is basically just a cut/past of a piece written by Sonia Barrett - deserves more than just a link.

So, here's a re-post of the full piece/article:


A message from Sonia Barrett

Government, Religion & Education: The Keepers of The Matrix
Reality - a result of the vibration of collective and individual consciousness

It is evident that there is a collective concept or interpretation of reality that is shared by many. (To even use the word many is speculative because it is not understood quantitatively who is experiencing what. It is simply a general assumption that the world and reality can even be quantitatively verified.) Reality loosely defined; is taking place in a field of frequencies supporting particular optical, audio and textural patterns. These are patterns that everyone around us appears to respond to. These patterns are specific to our five base senses. The system also supports a network of human emotions according to the protocols of this reality. Although our sensory capability exceeds five senses these five senses establish a centralised point of connection for interplay. So in essence there is a general operating program in place for the manner in which we function as human beings (reference to humans based on the current perception of reality) and how we will evolve collectively within this hologram. The system is structured to support collective evolution. Individualised progression is more of an override to the system.

Within the hologram are program's supporting order and control. Such program's are run through familiar systems of government, religion and education. Despite the seeming uniqueness in our lives unless one is removed from the general dependency encouraged by these systems then one is subject to the protocols in place for. The collective experience. Reality is such a cleverly functioning experience that one can spend much time chasing after self-awareness yet remain caught in just another one of the many system designed awareness matrix. In examining the governmental system in the region one may reside the dependency of people on government as their protector is a familiar tale worldwide. Conditions are created in order to ensure the need of government. Self-examination might also bring to surface subtle degrees of that program. Where did much of this kind of belief system emerge from? This is not to say that we should disband the idea of government but we should examine the manner in which we have surrendered personal charge over our own lives. An observation of the immediate reality around us would confirm that most people are not ready to be responsible for themselves; therefore government is essential.

When people have been programmed to be compliant the decision making process in their lives are easily transferred to the overseers. Humanity has been trained to take orders this includes even those that lead. This is the purpose of modern day education. It is indeed true that education was not always this way but even then the programming existed side by side in subtle ways. A trail of the execution of such programs can be seen in the stories of space visitors and in mythical stories of gods and supernatural forces impressing humanity with belief systems of inferiority and fear. In essence the human race ( as currently experienced) has been disconnected from the truth if its potentials for such a long time that even those who write and speak about the atrocities of government, education and religion are unable to see their own imprisonment in an even greater deception.

One may acknowledge that we have been deceived and in the same breath defend limiting religious and spiritual beliefs. Such beings remain oblivious to their own programs. Should their beliefs be examined perhaps the holes in these beliefs would be made evident yet they may continue to remain committed to such concepts. Belief systems are powerfully strong as it is the method by which the technology of the body operates. The human experience is based on automatic programs which in translation are programmed beliefs. This has been a programmed experience engineered in such a way that has provided an assortment of concepts from which we extract our choices. This act of choosing personalises our decision and further authorises a sense of freedom which ultimately is a deceptive picture of freedom. This becomes our reference point of being free while all along there is very little authentic choice. This same game is played by government, religion and education.

The concept of going within has been infiltrated in so many ways that the simplicity of engaging in such a natural experience now requires third parties to create this connection for us. This is much like the days of dialling the long distance operator to establish connection. It is interesting note that zero (0) is the number of choice in dialling the operator! How interesting is that! Connecting with the operator links us with a voice somewhere out there. Zero point (0.) that's the space we aim for in meditation. 0. is the no spin zone or immeasurable spin where time is seemingly nonexistent. The fluctuation between a wave and a particle is then evident. This is a powerful space of creating. Such an occurrence expresses the lowest energy state of a particle field also known as its ground field state. In referencing the electromagnetic spectrum we can view zero point (0.) as the apex. All fields descend from this space and each frequency progressively enfolds one in the other on the way up; radio wave, infrared, invisible light, ultraviolet light, x-ray, Gamma Ray and so on as the acceleration of the spin ( the frequency) increases.

Within us is the fabric of creation. When we close our eyes a magnificent moment occurs, there is nothing and we are then free to imagine a different version of reality be it qualified as real or unreal. Each time that we close our eyes we experience the canvas upon which our imagination paints. Our conditioning for survival is fed by the systems in place diverting us to other structured concepts and belief. Our base survival program is for food, clothes and shelter however this has gradually progressed to a different level of survival. They would become barometers for identity and classification. Our obsession with personal beauty, the kinds of clothes we wear, both the location and kind of dwelling we occupy has now thrown a smokescreen over the core survival program. The game in reference to this core program is so variegated that we find ourselves either running from being a part of these social classifications or running towards it. Very seldom do we stand on a middle ground.

Everything is either good or bad for us. We are either committed to being spiritually and financially impoverished as this seems to be a qualifying ideal for spiritual humility; which is yet another program. Alongside such misconceptions are spiritual leaders spreading exaggerated notions about financial abundance while corporatising spirituality. Spirituality is about the free flow of current in all areas of one's life as essential as one's journey. Currency aka money should not be associated with guilt or deprivation in attaining enlightenment. This is a program which suppresses our ownership of being creators. Poverty or lack supports a belief system of non-equality to those who seem to possess the skill or the art of creative flow. This is a program rooted in the system's design allowing the polarised experience of being on either side of the coin. However one may switch sides not simply through attending hundreds of abundance workshops but by understanding that the core belief/program/imprint must be changed followed by actual change.

Although financial success may have already been achieved,if one hordes money or has fear of spending it or if one is simply content with seeing the numbers in one's account or has fear of ever returning to an experience of lack these are all signs that those core programs still exist. If your life hinges on the credit bureaus and the life of your 401k then you have placed yourself as creator on hold in the bigger picture. What you have done is commit the flow of your life to the finite conditions of the matrix program. Remember that the system is automated. This does not mean that we should not take care of our credit and 401k but more importantly understand that you are playing a game, that 's what the credit bureau is, that's why your 401k is just like the stock market. You must play life for the fun of it....this is a shocking thought to some but that is the magic of it all. We must play life for fun because it is not this finite experience that our minds are so locked into believing or as the system would have us believe. We must examine our attitude and thought process in the way in which we experience money. This money program seems to be one of the most challenging experiences for many. Friends and family are toe apart by this psychological experience called money.

This polarised process of being rich or poor, good or bad are cousins to each other. Combinations are mixed and matched like a potion resulting in the manner in which we pursue our survival cures. How we establish food, clothes and shelter then range from simple to complex especially when the emotions of power and control are thrown in the mix. One is then affected by the overseeing forces influencing his or her survival strategies. This involves government, corporations, education and spiritual or religious practices. The life force or blood for such systems is the fuel of power and control. This is not a good or bad thing for without individuals holding such programs there would be no leaders in a reality where one's journey may be about experiencing submission and in being controlled. What do you choose to experience, what have you been experiencing? Cursing the rich only serves to uphold your programs. Money has been made the enemy upheld by a very condratictory mindset. We expect to receive yet we curse the energy. The governing forces of the collective experience on the planet understand our schizophrenic relationship with money and so we are pupated by pitting the poor against the wealthy and. The wealthy against the poor. Two distinct classes divided yet they are both robots and pawns in the game. This creates such distractions that we seem to be permanently cast in the roles of victim and victimiser, rich and poor which most often becomes generational.

We focus on suggested beliefs about the economy; is it a good economy or bad economy. The uncertainty of our jobs are no longer secure....but we're they ever? Perhaps this was all in your head, if your name does not appear on your employer's bank account then security was always an illusion. If you run a business there is always an opportunity to alter it or close it or convert it to something you have always wanted to try your mind at. To buy into the economy is to do just that....buy into you; you purchase the idea with emotional dollars and this begins to confirm the state of the economy in your reality. We further find others to support just how bad it is. The fact is that there are people with an overabundance of money who are ready to secure your services whatever that may be but if the energy you project is of the economy being bad therefore no one is buying, then the universe must comply with your wishes. You shall surely receive potential customers who complain that they would love to have your service if only they had the money but that the economy is bad. Instead establish a belief that expects those able to afford your services show up.

The awareness that we create our reality is replaced by these characters we play and the scripts we read from. In the meanwhile the wheel of the greater matrix continues to turn and churn out programs for the unsuspecting masses who will live and die according to these programs. We hear of brain plasticity:
"Brain plasticity refers to the capacity of the nervous system to change its structure and, it's function over a lifetime, in reaction to environmental diversity. Although this term is now commonly used in psychology and neuroscience, it is not easily defined and is used to refer to changes at many levels in in the nervous system ranging from molecular events, such as changes in gene expression, to behaviour."

To take a true examination of one's life is the key. Moving towards making the desired changes is the next greatest key. There is plasticity in our design therefore change is a plausible action. Change is not about blame, guilt or regret it is about experiencing greater levels do consciousness. Commit to your own evolution, it is the gateway beyond an automated life.
(Part 2 to come)
Thanks again for sharing this with us CdnSirian, much appreciated.

[Hervé]

Their mind is a very predicatable artifact. That is where our power in circumnavigating them should lie at.

You have said this before and even offered some evidence of it. (overly defensive when pointed out, corrupting etc..)

I think (at least for me) it would be benificial if you could expand on this point a bit (maybe with examples, or ?). It seems to be an important part & helping to identify (internally) what actions / feelings / responses are indicitive of "their mind" corruption would be very helpful for those of us in the early stages of this work.

Thanks!

Stepping in until 9eagle 9 answers for herself from a different perspective...

One thing one can start with is the "predictability" of one's reactions. In some philosophy, it's call "automaticity" or an automatic reaction -- always the same -- to different actual circumstances. An outward example would be that, whatever one could find sensible to say regarding the "Holocaust," one is immediately tagged as an "antisemite" (check "Lord Sidious" threads). No true valid discussion or debate possible from then on. It's an automatic, computer generated, form answer to all enquiries or all that's ailing one. There is no inspection of the actual circumstances, just a blurting out of the "party line," whether one's own or from others.

In other words there is this "identical" identity to these manifestations which are indicative of unavailable thinking abilities or real observation or inspection of the situation in its context. One type of example one is constantly faced with, on this forum for example, is that one ends up wondering if some posters actually read the post they are supposedly responding to. If so, then have they understood what was written? In most cases it's the "their" mind which overlaid a picture of what they "thought" (with the "their" mind) was posted and meant to signify as matching the content of the "their" mind. The ones in their "right" mind tend to think there is a debate going on whereas, in actuality there is none... just a maddening situation of boxing with shadows because there is no one on the other side to communicate with in the first place. Just a computer generated automatic answer. And I have witnessed people getting mad at their computer for not "understanding" the programs they themselves wrote... back in the days of Fortran language punched into cards... because the results spewed out by the computer was different from what they expected or just looping endlessly because they forgot a coma.

Hopefully, the above, if not speaking to you, will speak to someone reading it and help that individual understand the concepts being tackled in this thread.

[9eagle9]

That's an awesome response Amzer-zo.

Along with denying said what they said or did what they did. Even though what they did is evidenced in clear text. Because its written from emotionally based reactive 'thinking' they have no recall of what they said, accused, or presented even when you put it right under their nose. They respond again and again from an emotional place.

They can't differentiate the two.

[TargeT]

Their mind is a very predicatable artifact. That is where our power in circumnavigating them should lie at.

You have said this before and even offered some evidence of it. (overly defensive when pointed out, corrupting etc..)

I think (at least for me) it would be benificial if you could expand on this point a bit (maybe with examples, or ?). It seems to be an important part & helping to identify (internally) what actions / feelings / responses are indicitive of "their mind" corruption would be very helpful for those of us in the early stages of this work.

Thanks!

Stepping in until 9eagle 9 answers for herself from a different perspective...

One thing one can start with is the "predictability" of one's reactions. In some philosophy, it's call "automaticity" or an automatic reaction -- always the same -- to different actual circumstances. An outward example would be that, whatever one could find sensible to say regarding the "Holocaust," one is immediately tagged as an "antisemite" (check "Lord Sidious" threads). No true valid discussion or debate possible from then on. It's an automatic, computer generated, form answer to all enquiries or all that's ailing one. There is no inspection of the actual circumstances, just a blurting out of the "party line," whether one's own or from others.

In other words there is this "identical" identity to these manifestations which are indicative of unavailable thinking abilities or real observation or inspection of the situation in its context. One type of example one is constantly faced with, on this forum for example, is that one ends up wondering if some posters actually read the post they are supposedly responding to. If so, then have they understood what was written? In most cases it's the "their" mind which overlaid a picture of what they "thought" (with the "their" mind) was posted and meant to signify as matching the content of the "their" mind. The ones in their "right" mind tend to think there is a debate going on whereas, in actuality there is none... just a maddening situation of boxing with shadows because there is no one on the other side to communicate with in the first place. Just a computer generated automatic answer. And I have witnessed people getting mad at their computer for not "understanding" the programs they themselves wrote... back in the days of Fortran language punched into cards... because the results spewed out by the computer was different from what they expected or just looping endlessly because they forgot a coma.

Hopefully, the above, if not speaking to you, will speak to someone reading it and help that individual understand the concepts being tackled in this thread.

I've recognized this in myself, though never with this topic in mind.

I've found myself responding to something then when my response falls apart I go back and re-read what I "thought" I had read only to find that I had projected something onto the poster and not even absorbed what they were trying to say, I often refer to this as "snap judgment" as it seems to instantly categorize and judge someone based on some internally held definition stemming from,, well I guess "their mind" mentality. I've seen this happen "in person" too though it's very difficult to catch when "you" are the one doing it as everything seems to make sense and there is a touch of that emotional flare that really sets the hook.

Very interesting.

To simplify I would refer to this as (to steal my term I suppose) "snap judgment" and some of the clues would be that flare of emotion (indignation, anger, self righteousness etc..) & instantly thinking/"knowing" you are in some way superior (through knowledge, ethical / moral position or other) to the other party (at least this has been my experience).



That's an awesome response Amzer-zo.

Along with denying said what they said or did what they did. Even though what they did is evidenced in clear text. Because its written from emotionally based reactive 'thinking' they have no recall of what they said, accused, or presented even when you put it right under their nose. They respond again and again from an emotional place.

They can't differentiate the two.

in this I read that they are responding from the Reptilian brain, ( as is described in Athene's theory of everything (first 15 min or so))
dbh5l0b2-0o
it's more of a "reaction" so short term memory is almost non-exsistance, there is possibly a rush of adranaline &/or other hormones similar to when somone is defending themselfs from a physical attack (or defending a strongly held "belief") this can often lead to physical confrontation (espeicaly in men).

surely there are more examples?

[Belle]

surely there are more examples?

How do you think 'tptb' move their agenda along?

911...I was with a group of people around a tv that morning. The reactions were all emotional...horror, anger, revenge, fear...lots of rah, rah USA. Result...the Patriot Act...to keep us "safe"...and war. I saw the same thing they did and said, 'well, there goes our freedoms'. Why? Because I wondered how in the world two planes could do that much damage to those buildings...enough to bring them down. It didn't make sense. And then to have building 7 come down when it wasn't even hit...that was just too unbelievable.

Think about all the lone shooters...Giffords, Aurora and Sandy Hook for examples. Again people react emotionally and an agenda is moved forward...this time gun control. Now they have people on both sides of the issue...keeping us divided and our attention focused on that while they move on to something else.

Problem, REACTION, Solution...without the automatic emotional reaction and calls for 'keep us safe', the cycle would be broken.

[9eagle9]

9/11 is a excellent example.

When there is an actual problem, the best way to handle something is to go ..oh Problem, Think, Solution!

Now its all Problem, reaction, Solution (based on emotions to sooth everyone) . Reactive mind, all it does is react. (9/11 )

There was no problem, it was a created problem, everyone reacted to it, the solution was take away freedom. People did this to 'feel' safe . This is irrational, one is not safe without their freedom.

Feeling safe in any environment is it's primary objective. If you don't make it feel safe (feed it) then we get a problem.

9/11 occured 9 Months after Bush took office. It didn't take long to see what had been imposed on America, and that whole constructed monkey show was a means to make 'it', their mind safe again, in a country that was growing increasingly hostile towards the Bush Administration.

[9eagle9]

To simplify I would refer to this as (to steal my term I suppose) "snap judgment" and some of the clues would be that flare of emotion (indignation, anger, self righteousness etc..) & instantly thinking/"knowing" you are in some way superior (through knowledge, ethical / moral position or other) to the other party (at least this has been my experience).

Yes snap judgement, its not really 'judgement' though, no one is accessing anything.

You have your own experiences of this, trust them. A thought will eventually unravel itself out to an end or create another thought. Emotions never end because they are constantly fed, grudges are held, the drama makers no matter how much they resent 'the hostile' environment never want it to end. So they keep re-creating it. Re- Acting it out over and over again.

Because emotions never end, you can keep restirring them. People get addicted to emotion. An any given day you will find somewhere someone has posted something emotionally evocative, they respond to you in emotional terms. They are not always hostile emotions but goo.

When there is a problem an emotion is always the answer. Or the 'ideal' of an emotion. Of an 'ideal' of a situation that's emotionally inhabited.

We are all one big happy family. Someone has to go in and inhabit that with a bunch of emotion, it will run dry after awhile because rationally speaking we are not one big happy family: I'm not related to anyone, I don't know you, there is war, conflict, pain, starvation in the world. Your emotional construct does not address suffering so not everyone in this family gets to be 'happy'. I have no idea if you are happy or not and based on how reactive you are to everything I would suggest that you are not happy.

That too is building an inhabited construct. It will eventually disappoint them, run dry and another 'ideal' will be inhabited that makes them feel good. " A ufo with kind et's will come baby us and fix everything for us"

I'ts not real but ...don't disagree with it based on reality because they will show you in no uncertain terms how much of an unhappy family unit they are.

[9eagle9]

Based on their emotional woundedness they who refuse to address the 'their' mind will either irrationally attack reason, truth or wisdom. These things are not emotionally based so there's nothing to feed them. So a condition has to be made to feed them. If one doesn't respond or responds in a way appropriate to dealing with them (which is really like dealing with four year olds) then a emotion will be generated on YOUR behalf.

You are mean, angry, cold, callous. But its not content with this because it knows its just a 'thought' not a real emotion or energy. So it does it again and again and again.

Constant state of emotional validation. I'm 'right' to feel this way. Emotions have nothing to do with correct or incorrect. There are emotions that 'just are' and there are inappropriate emotional outbursts. They need people to validate their 'emotional outbursts'.

Constantly telling you how you should feel. You should feel love, or brotherhood, or bliss, forgiveness. Or that we are all one big happy family.

They seldom accept apologies though because that would 'end the drama'.

Forgiveness isn't an emotion. Neither is laughter. Having been in new agey, spiritual circles, the only people that ever seemed to laugh were rational people. For as much as they claimed bliss or happiness you never seen the love monsters smiling. They were always stuck in some fraught emotional situation either their own or someone elses. Or they would approach you to impose some emotion on you because THEY needed the attention.

"Here I'm going to put a lei around your neck and hug you because I love , your my sister."

Or basically so you will return the sentiment. Which I never did. I can't place emotional values on people I don't know.

I have a modicum of self respect, I don't just let strange people paw at me.

Either avoid or bird-dog self determined people. If they can bring down a self determined person (they can't) it will show what a 'light' warrior they are and further validate their emotions. I defeated the enemy never realizing they are their own enemy.

Intellect and intelligence is a no no. So is logic.

Emotions and programs, yes. Logic and intelligence no.

"Kindness and love are always the solution".

One thing my current contract I'm working on has taught me. ..I am spoken to rudely, gruffly, impatiently by certain parties daily who NEVER fail to do the right thing. Which is the thing that I am asking them to do. Rude, yeah yeah yeah, whatever, hurry up, yeah I'll do it, okay you're getting on my nerves, goodnight.

Never fail to do the 'right' thing.

Conversely there's twice as many very nice people who kindly and sweetly refuse to do the right thing.

Big lesson for me there that actually solidified this in my own mind.

[doodah]

For myself, I learned to be very careful of my "gut" reaction. We're told over and over that our "gut reaction" is usually the "right" (or accurate) take on a situation because it's immediate and not challenged or perverted by rationalization.

I don't buy that anymore. In the early stages of our working on ourselves, our "gut" reaction is most probably our earliest programming, our enculturated default setting, not our pure setting as a spirit being. We've all been "enculturated" because we've all been raised in a culture of some kind. A family makes its own culture that includes some but not all of the larger culture. We all know how twisted families can be and how grudges and hatreds are passed from parents to children generation after generation. We also know how twisted we can become due to negative experiences we (some of us) may suffer as children in the hands of unaware or just downright nasty families.

To find out who we really are as a person closer to our spirit being, we have to strip off that enculturation overlay - both that of our family and the larger culture - and that includes our "gut" reaction. Once we have done that, examined it, put ourselves back together again in a way that more closely aligns with our heart, and shifted our "gut reaction" to a higher octave, then maybe the "gut reaction" can be trusted.

This is how it happened for me anyhow, and these are just other words to describe what 9eagle and others have already said here.

[greybeard]

The word "resonates" scares the sh** out of me when people use it.
Its as though--- if I feel it resonates with me, it is right without doubt--- a justification, sometimes, for rubbishing others points of view.
Very few points of view are actually found to be 100% true.
Any point of view is "my angle on it".

The principal of navigation (triangulation" is a good safety measure in establishing a valid position.
I like to find as much information as possible, especially conflicting and opposing --the truth can literally lie in the middle.
Mind what you believe.
Chris

[9eagle9]

Resonance is usually wound or attachment resonance, tuning or vibing into a wound or an attachment.

Has nothing to do with intuition or 'knowing'. If our emotional bodies attempt to take over duty of the mental body, god knows they will attempt to take over the psychic and intuitive centers.

The Clairs ...clairaudience, clairsentience, atc. All have to do with clear senses not emotional ones.

[TargeT]

The word "resonates" scares the sh** out of me when people use it.
Its as though--- if I feel it resonates with me, it is right without doubt--- a justification, sometimes, for rubbishing others points of view.
Very few points of view are actually found to be 100% true.
Any point of view is "my angle on it".


a friend of mine (who has a very interesting approach to this common "search" that we of this forum all seem in one way or another to be a part of) implored me to read a PDF covering messages from Above Top Secret's own version of Avalon's "charles/atticus/stephen" (sort of): DialogueWithHiddenHand-WesPenre http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_illuminati_55.htm .

I was 16 pages into the PDF ( PAGES!) when I texted him and mentioned that so far I had read 16 pages of failed predictions (this dialogue was from 2008) and some interesting theory about polarization (a lot of which apparently parallels the Law of One material) & he mentioned "well it's a logical fallacy to think that just because some things are wrong the whole message is wrong" which frankly, I have a hard time disagreeing with that statement.

then he followed it up with "it really resonated with me"; for some reason I just couldn't get myself to finish it (I'm attempting to do so now).

I completely agree greybeard, that statement seems like the goto excuse for convincing oneself (and others) that what you WANT to believe in is what SHOULD be believed in; regardless of any evidence to the contrary.



Now I'm not absolutely going to discount this "hidden hand" material, I do agree that just because some failed predictions ( 16 pages of them so far......) happen to exist that all the material is crap.. but this brings up another question I almost started a thread on... how patient do you have to be with material like this, how much do you forgive?

anyway, aside from the interesting concept of polarization it's not "resonating" with me; /sarcasm though I'm sure that's because I'm just not ascended enough or something /sarcasm


SO, to bring this back on topic:

I suppose another (possible?) sign of "their mind mentality" is reasonless (with out reason) belief in something due to a "feeling" (how else would you describe something "resonating" with you?) or just because it "sounds right".

This is worrisome because I often act on what I've heard described as "intuition" based on similar,,, I guess I'd call them "feelings?" though perhaps I'm miss-labeling this and I should recognize it as "knowing". Either way it's too close for comfort & easy to confuse in my mind.

[Hervé]

The word "resonates" scares the sh** out of me when people use it.

[...]Chris

In different words, it's what I describe as "matching the content of the "their" mind."

There is sort of a matching of vibrations, frequency, shape, appearance, circumstances, wordings, etc...

Where it gets really weird is that an elephant can be made to match a flee in that "their/reactive" mind processing just because there is a very vague resemblance in their silhouette. That's what's described as A=A=A in Dianetics... it's ALL the same thing with no possibility of discernment, for it is being totally irrational.

It's like trying to reason with someone screaming in terror at the sight of a cute little mouse... never been successful with that one... only when acknowledging there is a real terror being expressed and with that as a start, keeping digging into the emotional charge until it is released... most often due to being eaten alive by rats and mice in some cellar or dungeon's cell in some distant past... and "they" say "time is the healer"... not true for that "their/reactive" mind.

[AwakeInADream]

I use the word 'resonate' often as meaning 'I agree', and I do see now how unfruitful it is really only to investigate the routes you have already traveled.
Perhaps it is better to look into things that 'grate against' you, things that don't initially 'grab' you in order to widen your perspective. That way you can really learn something new or at least dismiss something without coming from a place of ignorance. I guess the 'resonant' kind of self sabotage can keep you stuck in your own back yard.

[greybeard]

There is a word scotoma which sums it up.
Once a person has a mind set it is sometimes literally impossible for them to "see" valid contrary information--even if their life depended on it.
The flat earth society---The world is round--oh yeah!!! "Everybody" know the world is flat
The sun goes round the earth---people got killed for suggesting that the earth actually goes round the Sun.

So be easy on people who do not get it--laughing. They might be right--laughing even more.

Chris


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotoma

[9eagle9]

Well their certainly laughing to the bank now....

[CdnSirian]

res·o·nate
/ˈrezəˌnāt/
Verb

Produce or be filled with a deep, full, reverberating sound.
Evoke or suggest images, memories, and emotions.

Synonyms
resound - reverberate - sound - echo

To evoke a feeling of shared emotion or belief:

To correspond closely or harmoniously

to remind somebody of something; to be similar to what somebody thinks or believes

It's always interesting when something "resonates". Yet it's good to examine this. Does it resonate with the right mind?

[Jeffrey]

The following excerpts are from an exchange between Osho and one of his disciples (emphasis added). The content of the dialogue is about the mechanical reactions of the mind and it's habits. It also touches on some of the fundamentals of Gurdjieff's philosophy. [Side note: Man meaning man or woman -- humanity in general.]




Osho on Sufi Sayings - Man is a Machine

Question : Why do the Sufis say that man is a Machine?

Osho : Man is a machine, that's why. Man as he is is utterly unconscious. He is nothing but his habits, the sum total of his habits. Man is a robot. Man is not yet man: unless consciousness enters into your being, you will remain a machine. That's why the Sufis say man is a machine. It is from the Sufis that Gurdjieff introduced the idea to the West that man is a machine. It is very rarely that you are conscious.

In your whole seventy years' life, if you live the ordinary so-called life -- healthy and whole within and without, with no pain of growth, with no pain within you of a growing pearl of exceeding beauty -- then you will not know even seven moments of awareness in your whole life. And even if you know those seven moments or less, they will be only accidental. For example, you may know a moment of awareness if somebody suddenly comes and puts a revolver on your heart. In that moment, your thinking, your habitual thinking, stops.

For a moment you become aware, because it is so dangerous, you cannot remain ordinarily asleep. In some dangerous situation you become aware. Otherwise you remain fast asleep. You are perfectly skillful at doing your things mechanically. Just stand by the side of the road and watch people, and you will be able to see that they are all walking in their sleep. All are sleep-walkers, somnambulists. And so are you.

[...]

Just watch yourself. Even to the very point of death, people go on repeating old habitual patterns.

[...]

Man reacts. That's why the Sufis say man is a machine. Unless you start responding, unless you become responsible... Reaction comes out of the past, responses comes out of the present moment. Response is spontaneous, reaction is just old habit.

Just watch yourself. Your woman says something to you: then whatsoever you say, watch, ponder over it. Is it just a reaction? And you will be surprised: ninety-nine percent of your acts are not acts, because they are not responses, they are just mechanical. Just mechanical. It has been happening again and again: you say the same thing and your woman reacts the same way, and then you react, and it ends in the same thing again and again. You know it, she knows it, everything is predictable.

[...]

Just watch yourself. The things that you are doing, you have done so many times. The ways you react, you have been reacting always. In the same situation you always do the same thing. You are feeling nervous and you take out your cigarette and you start smoking. It is a reaction; whenever you have felt nervous you have done it. You are a machine. It is just a built-in program in you now: you feel nervous, your hand goes into the pocket, the packet comes out. It is almost like a machine doing things.

You take the cigarette out, you put the cigarette in your mouth, you light the cigarette, and this is all going on mechanically. This has been done millions of times, and you are doing it again. And each time you do this it is strengthened; the machine becomes more mechanical, the machine becomes more skillful. The more you do it, the less awareness is needed to do it. This is why the Sufis say man functions as a machine. Unless you start destroying these mechanical habits... Sufis have many methods to destroy them.

For example, they teach many devices. They say: Do something just contrary to what you have always done. Try it.

[...]

I have heard about a psychoanalyst who was telling his patient -- must have been giving him a Sufi device -- "Today when you go home..." because the patient was complaining again and again. "I am always afraid of going home. My wife looks so miserable, so sad, always in despair, that my heart starts sinking. I want to escape from the home."

The psychologist said, "Maybe you are the cause of it. Do something: today take flowers and ice cream and sweets for the woman, and when she opens the door hug her, give her a good kiss. And then immediately start helping her: clean the table and the pots and the floor. Do something absolutely new that you have never done before."

The idea was appealing and the man tried it. He went home. The moment the wife opened the door and saw flowers and ice cream and sweets, and this beaming man who had never been laughing hugged her, she could not believe what was happening! She was in an utter shock, she could not believe her eyes: maybe this is somebody else! She had to look again. And then when he kissed her and immediately just started cleaning the table and went to the sink and started washing the pots, the woman started crying.

When he came out he said, "Why are you crying?" She said, "Have you gone mad? I always suspected one day or other you would go mad. Now it has happened. Why don't you go and see a psychiatrist?"

Sufis have such devices. They say: Act totally differently, and not only will others be surprised, YOU will be surprised. And just in small things. For example, when you are nervous you walk fast. Don't walk fast, go very slow and see. You will be surprised that it doesn't fit, that your whole mechanical mind immediately says, "What are you doing? You have never done this!" And if you walk slowly you will be surprised: nervousness disappears, because you have brought in something new.

These are the methods of Vipassana and Zazen. If you go deep into them the fundamentals are the same. When you are doing vipassana walking, you have to walk more slowly than you have ever walked before, so slowly that it is absolutely new. The whole feeling is new, and the reactive mind cannot function. It cannot function because it has no program for it; it simply stops functioning. That's why in vipassana you feel so silent watching the breath. You have always breathed but you have never watched it; this is something new.

When you sit silently and just watch you breath -- coming in, going out, coming in, going out -- the mind feels puzzled: what are you doing? Because you have never done it. It is so new that the mind cannot supply an immediate reaction to it. Hence it falls silent. The fundamental is the same. Whether Sufi or Buddhist or Hindu or Mohammedan is not the question. If you go deep into meditation's fundamentals then the essential thing is one: how to de-automatize you.

Gurdjieff used to do very bizarre things to his disciples. Somebody would come who had always been a vegetarian, and he would say, "Eat meat." Now, it is the same fundamental -- this man is just a little too much of himself, a little eccentric. He would say, "Eat meat." Now, watch a vegetarian eating meat. The whole body wants to throw it out and he wants to vomit, and the whole mind is puzzled and disturbed and he starts perspiring, because the mind has no way to cope with it. That's what Gurdjieff wanted to see, how you would react to a new situation.

To the man who had never taken any alcohol Gurdjieff would say, "Drink. Drink as much as you can." And to the man who had been drinking alcohol Gurdjieff would say, "Stop for one month. Completely stop." He wanted to create some situation which is so new for the mind that the mind simply falls silent; it has no answer for it, no ready-made answer for it. The mind functions in a parrot-like way. That's why Zen masters will hit the disciple sometimes. That is again the same fundamental.

Now, when you go to a master you don't expect a buddha to hit you, or do you? When you go to Buddha you go with expectations that he will be compassionate and loving, that he will shower love and put his hand on your head. And this buddha gives you a hit -- takes his staff and hits you hard on the head. Now, it is so shocking: a buddha, hitting you? For a moment the mind stops; it has no idea what to do, it does not function. And that nonfunctioning is the beginning.

Sometimes a person has become enlightened just because the master did something absurd. People have expectations, people live through expectations. They don't know that masters don't fit with any kind of expectations.

[...]

But who are you to decide what I should say and what I should not say? And naturally, when something goes against their expectations they immediately react according to their old conditionings. Those who react according to their old conditionings miss the point. Those who don't react according to the old conditionings fall silent, get into a new space. I am talking to my disciples: I am trying to hit them, this way and that. It is all deliberate.

[...]

The Sufis say man is a machine because man only reacts according to the programs that have been fed to him. Start behaving responsively, and then you are not a machine. And when you are not a machine you are a man: then the man is born.

Watch, become alert, observe, and go on dropping all the reactive patterns in you. Each moment try to respond to the reality -- not according to the ready-made idea in you but according to the reality as it is there outside. Respond to the reality! Respond with your total consciousness but not with your mind. And then when you respond spontaneously and you don't react, action is born. Action is beautiful, reaction is ugly. Only a man of awareness acts, the man of unawareness REACTS. Action liberates. Reaction goes on creating the same chains, goes on making them thicker and harder and stronger. Live a life of response and not of reaction.

Source: http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Shiva-Shakti/man_is_a_Machine.htm

[aikisaw]

9eagle9


"Forgiveness isn't an emotion. Neither is laughter. Having been in new agey, spiritual circles, the only people that ever seemed to laugh were rational people. For as much as they claimed bliss or happiness you never seen the love monsters smiling. They were always stuck in some fraught emotional situation either their own or someone elses. Or they would approach you to impose some emotion on you because THEY needed the attention."



The love monsters, that is funny.:o

Thank You 9eagle9 for a thought provoking thread.

I have spent a lot of time working with the ideas you have presented and others have contributed to in this thread. It has helped me to understand my own mind, thoughts, and emotions.

It has given me tools to deal with things that clearings, healing, and meditation did not touch.

Things I did not feel I was was generating, but had to deal with non the less. I was not blaming others but had no understanding of how to handle the intolerance for other people that would come around about once a month for one or two days. I would generally stay home or go for a walk in the woods (alone) maybe schedule a clearing.

I once explained it to a coworker that I did not understand it when it happened but it was real and no amount of happy thoughts could make it go away. There were times when happy thoughts made it worse.....fueled the fire.

I can say their mind got plenty of emotional energy on those days. It will be nice to shut that source off.



It is like another piece of the puzzle has been revealed.

Thanks you all for that.

I found this video on Houman's Horus Ra thread. I thought it fits in well with this thread.


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UrAgb1-UKQ8#!

[CdnSirian]

Gurdjieff! Love him! "Meetings With Remarkable Men"...."All And Everything Beelzebub's Tales To His Grandson"....fantastic telling and humor. For us earth bipeds, a great reference.

And for the earth quadripeds...thanks for hanging with 9eagle9!

After passing through the region near the Caspian Sea where Beelzebub landed his spaceship... in the story...I became very curious about Gurdieff.

I understand he eventually developed the persona of a cult leader - but is that because he went to NY?

[9eagle9]

http://www.thefrisky.com/2012-05-25/this-man-married-a-sex-shop-mannequin/

http://www.thefrisky.com/2011-06-13/meet-the-mannequin-man/

http://www.thefrisky.com/2011-01-28/man-has-mannequin-wife-on-my-strange-addiction/


Inhabited constructs. These are becoming more common. This is the next step after GFL, where one finds or makes a non-physical construct to inhabit with emotion. It is very real to them although absolutely ridiculous and lacking anything resembling even magickal reality. Some people are inclined to say these are mentally ill people. Not at all, they are emotionally inhabiting an 'ideal' until it becomes real to them. Taking it one step further than the GFL people could ....they just find a construct or build one themselves.

[AwakeInADream]

My ISP wouldn't let me access your links 9eagle9, it said they were ADULT CONTENT! lol

Anyway, on the subject of love. If you get two different people to imagine a tree, those two people will 'see' a different tree. It is the same with love, as no two people will have the same conception of what 'unconditional' love really is. That doesn't mean that real love doesn't exist as a force in the world, it just means that hardly anyone knows what it really feels like in truth. All we have are shadows of the real world. Glimses of truth that quickly fade. We are dreaming now.

If I told you I loved you I would be decieving myself, but if I told you I was love and so are you, that would be the truth.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I don't see love in it's true sense as an emotion, but rather an essential part of our being.

Emotion is truly a dangerous thing indeed as it is the fuel for most wars in what ever guise it takes.(hate,pride,love,fear)

[9eagle9]

You can Google Men who married Mannequins

Or Man who Married Mannequin, Strange Addictions

It will pop up a number of links , probably more than what you want to read

[AwakeInADream]

What! This guy?
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.126409.1313970447!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/alg-ned-nefer-3-jpg.jpg
That certainly is one case of love misunderstood! LOL!:lol:

[9eagle9]

That's one of them. I think that is the one that started out as a 'just a head'. Then he built her a body.

Gave 'er quite a pair didn't he?

[AwakeInADream]

Yep! You could say he looks like a right tit! (if the photo was taken from the other side....)

She looks exited! Maybe she is alive????:lol:

EDIT: I'm talking about her facial expression, not her apparent nipple arousal.

[Jenci]

This is a great thread thanks 9E9. I hope people can come to the thread and leave the emotions aside and read with an openness which allows the truth of what is being pointed to here to be received.





I too am interested in any suggestions.

I don't think there is a one size, fits all way of dealing with this. People react and understand in so many different ways. Often it appears there is no rhyme or reason to that. You can see people responding favourably to one person's post, dismissing another's when in fact both people are saying the same thing. Of course they are not responding to what has been said but more reacting through their emotions which have been triggered by the content or the person giving it.

Some people, by their nature, respond well to a very simplistic approach, others to a more analytical, scientific approach. Whatever the differences though, the aim is the same to produce that "A-Ha" moment where there is a break in the normal program of the mind, which creates a space for something else to enter.

As there is no one size fits all approach I think you need to be flexible and adapt the information being given to respond to the individual who is receiving. This is not so easy on a forum like this but can be done effectively on a one-to-one level.

Of course you need to be in your right mind to be able to have the flexibility and clarity to see the needs of the person to guide them towards that "A-ha" moment. If you are rigid in your approach, you're just running a program yourself and it is going to be counter productive.

I very often talk about the lack of the personal self because it is where my interests lie but I am also aware of that this is not the information that is going to help some people. I remember the time when I first heard someone talk about it and although I was already into this spiritual journey myself and I thought he was absolutely bonkers and I immediately shut down to what he was saying. If you think someone is insane you are not going to listen to them are you?

So, it is about meeting people where they are at and giving out information that they are ready for.

Having said that I wouldn't be so stuck as to say I would not talk about the absence of personal self in the first instance if I felt at the time it may be appropriate.

A single spark can set everything alight and using something which provides a shock and stops the mind dead in its tracks can be very effective as we have seen outlined in the excellent quotes posted by Vivek here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54217-Their-Mind-and-the-Emotional-Matrix-that-we-create-with-it.&p=617655&viewfull=1#post617655).

But we can only offer solutions to people who know they have problems and most often people are not aware there is a problem. At the extreme I have observed this in AA. You have people with complete obvious destruction in their life - loss of relationship, children, job, home, licence - and they walk into AA and you would think that they know they have a problem because the evidence is clear for all to see...but they don't know.

If you go in with a solution at this point you get no where because you can only apply a solution to a problem. In their minds there is no problem. It is not even a case of being in denial because if you become very observant you will see that to them their life has become so habitual and automated that the destruction is seen as actually normal.

So the first step necessary is to outline the problem to them and get them to see that their life, their behaviours and their thinking is anything but normal; in fact it is insane. Only when they can see that problem can you begin with the solution.


Now alcoholics and their destructive minds are at the extreme end but the same patterns can be observed in other people, although the destruction in their life will be less obvious the insane thinking will be just as insidious. You can observe this if you watch people - the same people reacting in the same way, getting the same results, completely oblivious to the wreckage it is causing around them. They may talk the talk about being spiritual and self improvement but as they cannot see the problem, they will never seek to fix it.

If you point it out they will immediately either go on the defensive or the attack and the claws will come out and you will get the insults, the put-downs, the sarcasm etc. It's very predictable. This type of reaction is fairly standard amongst the majority of people, who will react through their emotional and pain body rather than applying any logical thought to the events which are actually happening.

So the first step I would say is to get people to see that there is a problem. To do this I would favour bringing them to the point that they are the witness/observer of their mind. It's a very simple shift in perspective but difficult to achieve when they they believe that they are their mind and are led by its thoughts.

This is a case of where repetition of the same instruction can pay off and produce the "A-ha". Stepping back as the witness provides the space observe with clarity what is going on with the thinking.


What I would hope is that if anyone has read your thread/posts and dismissed what you are saying is that they come back again, put aside their emotional reactions and any ideas that you are being critical and read again with openness. You're giving people a key to get themselves out their prison to freedom.

That's priceless. Keep doing what you're doing :)

Jeanette

[D-Day]

I found this video on Houman's Horus Ra thread. I thought it fits in well with this thread.


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UrAgb1-UKQ8#!

That video should be made compulsory viewing for, well, pretty much everyoone really.

... but particularly for budding 'new age spiritualists' and 'truthers'.

[9eagle9]

The video is more than in alignment with what is being said here. We are drowning in fake love, and new age political correctness.

I'd like to pick some quotes out of there and paste them up. Can't copy and paste from video though so might be a while.

The last people who would read that are the very ones whose lives depend on reading it. They will not watch it because it does not support or prop up their broken emotional body.

I'm sure it will be regarded as Fear Mongering.

Fear mongering is another key reactive meme. The moment someone posts something up that is 'negative' or not about love, one is fear mongering. This says quite a lot about someone's emotional state.

"The stock market took a dip today"

OH YOU ARE FEAR MONGERING!

They don't realize because of their own filters that people can talk about uncomfortable circumstances without going into a reactive fear state.
This is an uncomfortable topic. I haven't seen anyone go over the deep edge with it because ....people can talk about uncomfortable topics without having an emotion attached to it. The are not emotionally inhabited in the idea, self identified with it, so can discuss it solely on a mental level where there are no emotions. They have not made an inhabited construct of it and poured energy into it.

Vivek is one example of that. He doesn't jealously guard his work or go into a wad when its scrutinized but I'm sure he's impassioned by the discoveries he's making, not 'the' ideas he is making. He doesn't get attached to any one idea and inhabit it.

Then there's fear porn. The same as happy porn , or normal XXX porn. It makes people excited to read it. It titillates them on some level . The Drake saga is one. It's not fear mongering, its fear porn. People feel warm all over reading it but its no more real than anything else. It's a program being run.

[Kristin]

Your foregiven...lol.

Forgiveness as the document demonstrates is an act of clearing not an emotion. You may not have intended to show that but I seen it none the less.


Your foregiven...lol.


Forgiveness as the document demonstrates is an act of clearing not an emotion. You may not have intended to show that but I seen it none the less.

I forgive you I am sorry I love you thank you ...

Hm.... you mind telling me what I did precisely that I am in need of your forgiveness? Just out of curiosity....?




Your foregiven...lol.

Forgiveness as the document demonstrates is an act of clearing not an emotion. You may not have intended to show that but I seen it none the less.

I forgive you I am sorry I love you thank you ...

It just looks like Kimberley was practicing Ho'oponopono (http://www.vitality-living.com/resources/Zero+Limits+-+Joe+Vitale.pdf)...

kahuna lapaʻau? Lol.

Ho'oponopono, the core foundation of the practice is the ACTS of reconciliations that ultimately lead to forgiveness. Reconciliations means you understand what you are forgiving someone for.

Its a bit more involved than blurting benchmark words to strangers on the internet.

Maybe more practice is required?



It just looks like Kimberley was practicing Ho'oponopono (http://www.vitality-living.com/resources/Zero+Limits+-+Joe+Vitale.pdf)...

I see from reading the 20 pages, that the act of loving is more powerful than being loved.
As for unconditional love Nasargadatta said that "Unconditional love is impossible until you are enlightened as there is always an agenda even if its to feel good". However one can hope for that ability and practise towards it.
Forgiveness is the core teaching of "A course in miracles" and many other "self help" tutorials.
Lester devoted his life to helping others--- all credit to him

Chris

Which deprives me of my learning experience since I still have no idea how this relates to me and gives me nothing to reflect on as far as what I did to you to see where my error lies at that you must forgive me for.

If someone is forgiving me then I must have done something wrong. Knowing what I did wrong of course gives me an opportunity to self reflect to find you what prompts me to make such errors.

Otherwise I'm just making an empty contract. Or you are attempting to make a construct and get me to inhabit it. And I politely refused, since you won't reveal the conditions associated with the contract. In that respect you would then be using an ancient healing tradition for your own self gratification and I will not be a party to that either.

"I refuse to contract until I know what the conditions are".

Better luck elsewhere though I'm sure.


Anyway for those interested Dr Hew Len, who also teaches how to take personal responsibility for everything in ones life, this interview would be a good place to start:

You mean like refusing to contract with others in an empty way? For an example. I just did and in doing so exercised my personal responsibility to myself and ....others.

Not to fear there's literally zillions of people who will participate in that sort of thing though. Kimberley simply had the poor luck to direct at someone who wouldn't.

9eagle9 I dont think its ever about forgiving "you"--- its about the seeming other being prepared to let go of their imaginary grievances.
That frees them up.
You that is everyone in your core need to look and see if you have done some thing that you feel you need to forgive yourself for.
Let the other do what they feel they need to do--- what they think of me is non of my business. That's a simple generalisation.
There will be exceptions where I am concerned that others have miss-understood me.

Chris

You walked her right into that one Chris...lol. I have no idea if she will appreciate you for that or not.

I know that Kimberley has imaginary grievances with me,she has expressed them to me by her own self admission. I simply wanted to know if she were expressing that she had imaginary grievances with me or that she had some real issue that I in my insanity had imposed on her. I don't see in any part of this thread where I imposed on anyone.

Because she decided to highlight me in this excercize I do have the right to know these things. I will not carry an error that is not of my own making, I have enough of my own to tote around.

If someone wants to make an example of me its only polite to say why one is doing so. Otherwise the entirely of the wisdom that is learned here is overlooked.

thank you Kimberley for letting go of your imaginary grievances towards me.

And thank you Chris for being honest enough to say what others will not.


You walked her right into that one Chris...lol. I have no idea if she will appreciate you for that or not.

I know that Kimberley has imaginary grievances with me,she has expressed them to me by her own self admission. I simply wanted to know if she were expressing that she had imaginary grievances with me or that she had some real issue that I in my insanity had imposed on her. I don't see in any part of this thread where I imposed on anyone.

Because she decided to highlight me in this excercize I do have the right to know these things. I will not carry an error that is not of my own making, I have enough of my own to tote around.

If someone wants to make an example of me its only polite to say why one is doing so. Otherwise the entirely of the wisdom that is learned here is overlooked.

thank you Kimberley for letting go of your imaginary grievances towards me.

And thank you Chris for being honest enough to say what others will not.

Its all levels 9eagles9.
To be honest I did not have Kimberley in mind--- I was just thinking on the essence of your post.

"A course in miracles" is help full---it states "You are never angry for the reason you think you are"
The wife shouted at the man--he got angry with the kids, they kicked the dog, the dog chased the cat, the cat caught the mouse and on it goes.
Also what annoys one does not push the buttons of another----so who exactly is to blame for the slight I took on board?
Trying to find out is a can of worms.

When something comes up for me I surrender the juice I get from it to The Divine.
That works well and clears a lot.
I used to get a lot of juice from being the wronged one--- after all I was such a kind person was I not?
I did not deserve to be treated like that.
Truth probably was that I was manipulative looking for favours for my kindness.
So there being no end to it surrendering the juice covers a multitude of "sins". (Emotions, feelings the works)
Thats from the essence of the teachings of Dr Hawkins.

Chris

I think this is a case where you should continue the honesty route and just say what you mean Chris.

To clarify: You lost me when you began 'preaching to the choir,' I know what the Course in Miracles says. I want to know what you are saying though?

i agree its getting personal, and its basically something that 'affects' and 'effects' all of us.


I think this is a case where you should continue the honesty route and just say what you mean Chris.

To clarify: You lost me when you began 'preaching to the choir,' I know what the Course in Miracles says. I want to know what you are saying though?

I wasnt talking specifically to your self 9eagle9 after the first part.
Then I went general-- I know you studied the course.-, but many haven’t and guests read these threads.
I missed that Kimberly apologised to you as she was not named in your post, only when I saw your response did I go back to get that.
My first response would have been exactly the same if I knew then that Kimberly said what she said.

Hope that clarifies

Regards Chris

No it doesn't truthfully Chris, but if no one minds I may claim this interchange for use in my thread if moderation would like to move it there for me. While i agree its getting off topic its pretty much fits there a treat and wouldn't serve as a distraction here.

Give me the link and I'll combine this conversation to the thread you would like.

From the Heart,
Kristin

Here are the posts to continue the conversation.

[9eagle9]

Anyone care to take a stab at what just occurred in that conversation?

[AwakeInADream]

Anyone care to take a stab at what just occurred in that conversation?

Can you provide a link to the conversation as it happened? I'm confused about who is speaking to who.:confused:

Is it about reacting to, and projecting false emotions onto others, thus falsifying your perceptions so that communication becomes unclear?
(Like addressing issues within others that are really only present in the self?)

[9eagle9]

9eagle9 @ Roman: Your foregiven...lol.

Forgiveness as the document demonstrates is an act of clearing not an emotion. You may not have intended to show that but I seen it none the less.
___________________________

Kimberely at 9Eagle9: I forgive you I am sorry I love you thank you ...

_________________________________________________________

9EAGLE9 @Kimberely: Hm.... you mind telling me what I did precisely that I am in need of your forgiveness? Just out of curiosity....?

________________________________________________________



Amzer Z0 @ 9EAGLE:It just looks like Kimberley was practicing Ho'oponopono

_______________________________________________________________

9EAGLE9 @Amzer ZO:

kahuna lapaau? Lol.

Ho'oponopono, the core foundation of the practice is the ACTS of reconciliations that ultimately lead to forgiveness. Reconciliations means you understand what you are forgiving someone for.

Its a bit more involved than blurting benchmark words to strangers on the internet.

Maybe more practice is required?

_____________________________________

Greybeard@9EAGLE9

I see from reading the 20 pages, that the act of loving is more powerful than being loved.
As for unconditional love Nasargadatta said that "Unconditional love is impossible until you are enlightened as there is always an agenda even if its to feel good". However one can hope for that ability and practise towards it.
Forgiveness is the core teaching of "A course in miracles" and many other "self help" tutorials.
Lester devoted his life to helping others--- all credit to him

Chris


_________________________________________________________

9EAGLE9@Kimberely (who never did answer my question, i am actually posting a response to a video she posted in lieu of answering my question) Which deprives me of my learning experience since I still have no idea how this relates to me and gives me nothing to reflect on as far as what I did to you to see where my error lies at that you must forgive me for.

If someone is forgiving me then I must have done something wrong. Knowing what I did wrong of course gives me an opportunity to self reflect to find you what prompts me to make such errors.

Otherwise I'm just making an empty contract. Or you are attempting to make a construct and get me to inhabit it. And I politely refused, since you won't reveal the conditions associated with the contract. In that respect you would then be using an ancient healing tradition for your own self gratification and I will not be a party to that either.

"I refuse to contract until I know what the conditions are".

Better luck elsewhere though I'm sure.


Quote Kimberly: Anyway for those interested Dr Hew Len, who also teaches how to take personal responsibility for everything in ones life, this interview would be a good place to start:

9EAGLE: You mean like refusing to contract with others in an empty way? For an example. I just did and in doing so exercised my personal responsibility to myself and ....others.

Not to fear there's literally zillions of people who will participate in that sort of thing though. Kimberley simply had the poor luck to direct at someone who wouldn't.

________________________________________

Greybeard at 9EAGLE9:

9eagle9 I dont think its ever about forgiving "you"--- its about the seeming other being prepared to let go of their imaginary grievances.
That frees them up.
You that is everyone in your core need to look and see if you have done some thing that you feel you need to forgive yourself for.
Let the other do what they feel they need to do--- what they think of me is non of my business. That's a simple generalisation.
There will be exceptions where I am concerned that others have miss-understood me.

Chris


____________________________________________


You walked her right into that one Chris...lol. I have no idea if she will appreciate you for that or not.

I know that Kimberley has imaginary grievances with me,she has expressed them to me by her own self admission. I simply wanted to know if she were expressing that she had imaginary grievances with me or that she had some real issue that I in my insanity had imposed on her. I don't see in any part of this thread where I imposed on anyone.

Because she decided to highlight me in this excercize I do have the right to know these things. I will not carry an error that is not of my own making, I have enough of my own to tote around.

If someone wants to make an example of me its only polite to say why one is doing so. Otherwise the entirely of the wisdom that is learned here is overlooked.

thank you Kimberley for letting go of your imaginary grievances towards me.

And thank you Chris for being honest enough to say what others will not.

_____________________________



__________________________________________

Greybeard@9EAGLE9:

To be honest I did not have Kimberley in mind--- I was just thinking on the essence of your post.

"A course in miracles" is help full---it states "You are never angry for the reason you think you are"
The wife shouted at the man--he got angry with the kids, they kicked the dog, the dog chased the cat, the cat caught the mouse and on it goes.
Also what annoys one does not push the buttons of another----so who exactly is to blame for the slight I took on board?
Trying to find out is a can of worms.

When something comes up for me I surrender the juice I get from it to The Divine.
That works well and clears a lot.
I used to get a lot of juice from being the wronged one--- after all I was such a kind person was I not?
I did not deserve to be treated like that.
Truth probably was that I was manipulative looking for favours for my kindness.
So there being no end to it surrendering the juice covers a multitude of "sins". (Emotions, feelings the works)
Thats from the essence of the teachings of Dr Hawkins.

____________________________________________

9EAGLE9 to Greybeard: I think this is a case where you should continue the honesty route and just say what you mean Chris.

To clarify: You lost me when you began 'preaching to the choir,' I know what the Course in Miracles says. I want to know what you are saying though?

_____________________________________________________

At this point Kristin, Moderation, breaks into say the conversation has gotten off topic

____________________________________________________________

9EAGLE9: i agree its getting personal, and its basically something that 'affects' and 'effects' all of us.
_____________________

Greybeard @ 9EAGLE9

I wasnt talking specifically to your self 9eagle9 after the first part.
Then I went general-- I know you studied the course.-, but many haven’t and guests read these threads.
I missed that Kimberly apologised to you as she was not named in your post, only when I saw your response did I go back to get that.
My first response would have been exactly the same if I knew then that Kimberly said what she said.

Hope that clarifies
___________________


Regards Chris
____________________________

9EAGLE @ Greybeard: No it doesn't truthfully Chris, but if no one minds I may claim this interchange for use in my thread if moderation would like to move it there for me. While i agree its getting off topic its pretty much fits there a treat and wouldn't serve as a distraction here.

-----------

And so it was moved here. I punched out some of the overtext.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

No text. The conversation was moved over here in it's entirety. I punched out some of the overtext for clarity.



Anyone care to take a stab at what just occurred in that conversation?

Can you provide a link to the conversation as it happened? I'm confused about who is speaking to who.:confused:

Is it about reacting to, and projecting false emotions onto others, thus falsifying your perceptions so that communication becomes unclear?
(Like addressing issues within others that are really only present in the self?)

[Jeffrey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrAgb1-UKQ8

This video could go in several different threads around the forum.

I give it a 9 out of 10 ...

UPDATE: Whoops! hehe I just realized Aikisaw already posted this! :doh:




I found this video on Houman's Horus Ra thread. I thought it fits in well with this thread.


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UrAgb1-UKQ8#!

That video should be made compulsory viewing for, well, pretty much everyoone really.

... but particularly for budding 'new age spiritualists' and 'truthers'.

[AwakeInADream]

Perhaps it's the case that sometimes people over identify with a post and 'take it personally' when In fact it's meant to be viewed at a 'meta' level and read impersonally whilst at the same time allowing for anything useful to be applied to the self should you want to. That when reading posts sometimes a healthy detachment is required.

Of course the above conversation can never come to any resolution(not that you need it 9E9:)) until Kimberly can explain what she thinks you may or may not have done wrong.

Anyway, I am admittedly a bit thick sometimes(and maybe I shouldn't comment), but I would like to hear your take on the conversation if you can imagine your speaking part as the voice of someone else who you don't know.

Is there something we can all learn from this? (Probably, yes) Or are you 'hung up' about it? (I doubt that you are:))

[9eagle9]

Yes . Self identifying or taking a position with their mind. No one was invited or asked to take a position in exchange between Kimberely and myself, she made it quite apparent she was thinking with emotions and when I queried her from a mental body she couldn't respond and for some reason Greybeard was compelled to respond on her behalf.

I would be curious to know why he did that when he spoke against taking a position here in this thread.

A lot more to it than that but I have to go get a cheeseburger.


Perhaps it's the case that sometimes people over identify with a post and 'take it personally' when In fact it's meant to be viewed at a 'meta' level and read impersonally whilst at the same time allowing for anything useful to be applied to the self should you want to. That when reading posts sometimes a healthy detachment is required.

Of course the above conversation can never come to any resolution(not that you need it 9E9:)) until Kimberly can explain what she thinks you may or may not have done wrong.

Anyway, I am admittedly a bit thick sometimes(and maybe I shouldn't comment), but I would like to hear your take on the conversation if you can imagine your speaking part as the voice of someone else who you don't know.

Is there something we can all learn from this? (Probably, yes) Or are you 'hung up' about it? (I doubt that you are:))

[greybeard]

Awakeinadream you have my part in your explanation, very astute "

My post was never personal but triggered as part of the essence of Lester's work--He was also friendly with Dr Hawkins.
That led to my explanation of what I did on me using Hawkins teachings.

"Perhaps it's the case that sometimes people over identify with a post and 'take it personally' when In fact it's meant to be viewed at a 'meta' level and read impersonally whilst at the same time allowing for anything useful to be applied to the self should you want to. That when reading posts sometimes a healthy detachment is required."

This copied from the link I provided below

"The Kundalini energy has been working on my body for about 20years--im now almost predominantly right brained---detail escapes me but essence I get quickly, content no--context yes. Spelling grammar---no. Sentences in complete--speaking or writing.
Focus peripheral rather than sharp.
Logic no longer linear --that creates problems--- I can jump mid sentence to something else that seems to me relevant but to my surprise others dont get the jump."

That was posted before the post on the moved part of the Lester thread.

Chris

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54172-The-Negative-Space&p=619276&viewfull=1#post619276

[D-Day]

Anyone care to take a stab at what just occurred in that conversation?

Well, it seems to me that kimberleys' reaction/response to 9eagle9 was based upon a preconcieved notion that 9eagle9 had wronged her in some way, shape or form, and thereore was in need of her forgiveness.

Forgiveness for what exactly we cannot be fully certain, because kimberley (for the time being at least) has chosen not to acknowledge 9eagle9s' request for further clarificaation on the matter.

IMHO kimberley made the offer (most likely unconsciously) in an attempt to take power away from 9eagle9 so she could transfer it unto herself... which in essence is really just a subtle form of passive-agressive energy vampirism.

Kmberleys' offer of forgiveness (in my mind) was basically a request for 9ealge9 to agree to having her energy stolen... masked under the guise of a pure gesture of unconditional love and compassion.

If 9eagle9 was to accept kimberleys' offer she would effectively be entering into an agreement with kimberley where the underlying premise was that 9eagle9 required forgiveness for a wrong she had committed against kimberley.

In this instance 9eagle9 was wise to kimberleys' game (a game that kimberley herself probably had no conscious awareness she was even playing), as such 9eagle9 rejected kimberleys' offer based on the fact that no evidence had been provided to suggest that any wrong-doing on her part had actually taken place and therefore no requirement for forgiveness was necessary.

In all honesty, I suspect kimberleys' only grievance with 9eagle9 is that (in the past) she has often called kimberley (as well as numerous others) out when they have demonstrated this type of behaviour, and I think because of that 9eagle9 has become somewhat of a thorn in kimberleys' side.

Peronally, I think kimberleys' reaction in this conversation stemmed from her annoyance with 9eagle9 who regularly points this sort of behaviour out when she observes it. When someone does that to another it exposes a part of themselves that they don't like to look at and don't want others to see. Thus, they typically become defensive and start looking for subtle (and often underhanded) ways to defend themselves without drawing further attention to what they were REALLY doing (consciously or not)... attempting to steal another persons power/energy.

*********************************************

Kimberley, if you're reading this, I hope you understand thiat my comments here were not meant to be viewed or perceived as a personal attack against you. They are simply representative of my own personal observations regarding the conversation you were quoted in that kristin posted above. I acknowledge the fact that I have had to make quite a few assumptoins about your motives and intentions and that I may have misinterpreted them somehow. Regardless, this was how I personally saw the situaion and my intention was not to try and sugar coat anything because that's not waht this thread is about.

P.S. I am quite willing to admit that I (and most likely every other person on this thread) have been directly responsible for the vampirisation of another persons' energy. Having said that, the entire purpose of this thread is for us to observe and discuss this phenomenon so we can start taking action to minimise and/or eliminate this practice from mainfesting itself in our daily lives. I hope you are able to understand that this is not personal.

[AwakeInADream]

Yes! I like 9Eagle9's 'no nonsense' approach, her bravery and commitment to the truth(no matter how hard it is for some to swallow), and of course her sense of humor. One of my own personal favorite 'Top 10' posters here on Avalon.

[Kimberley]

For the record this was my response to 9E9 and the others on the original thread...



It just looks like Kimberley was practicing Ho'oponopono (http://www.vitality-living.com/resources/Zero+Limits+-+Joe+Vitale.pdf)...

You got it Amzer Zo :cool: Lesters "teaching" Reminds me a lot of Ho'oponopono cleaning cleaning cleaning is what Dr Hew Len does . And with Lester it is releasing releasing releasing.

I had a hard time myself with the "I forgive you" part of Ho'oponopono because if one does not judge then there is nothing to forgive... However for those that live from a judgmental place than forgiveness is a great first step.

Anyway for those interested Dr Hew Len, who also teaches how to take personal responsibility for everything in ones life, this interview would be a good place to start:

Dr Hew Len 1 of 9, ho'oponopono

OL972JihAmg

I have been enjoying Lester's way of explaining what he learned and it is very similar to ho'oponopono. Thank you again Roman for bringing him to our attention.

Much love to us all!! :grouphug:



It had NOTHING I repeat NOTHING to do with her 9E9... she seems to have taken it personally and I have no control over what someone else takes personally... Obviously 9E9 is not aware of Ho'oponopono..that is fine!! So she did not see the connection that is fine. All is well in my universe and that is all that matters to me!!!

Thank you Chris and others for jumping in however I am not one that needs to defend myself. I have nothing to defend... I am only jumping in here now to perhaps shed some light on this....

What you think of me is NONE of my business and what I think of you is NONE or your business!!! End of discussion from me.

Much love to us all always in all ways! :grouphug:

[9eagle9]

You made it personal Kimberley. Or at least it was a failed attempt on your part to make it personal. You snigled me out of many participants in that thread. That is called making it personal. You quoted me and you addressed me . That is making a personal remark at a person.

Leaving FEELINGS out it and sticking to the facts which are self evident here. When I asked you directly and honestly why you had this overwhelmingly compulsion to forgive me and what I was being forgiven for, you didn't answer me.

When I asked why you were making this personal and involving me you didn't answer. You responded to Amzer Zo with a video.

You're response as you have put here, is my evidence of your behavior. It isn't a response to me at all, there is no place in that post where you answered me and people can see that with their own two eyes as well as I can so the fraudulent "You're taking this personally" is pretty much blown out the water. You are now only deceiving yourself. You provided your own evidence. You like Greybeard decided to hide behind a book or video than communicate in a humane way.

That is attempting to think with one's feelings. It will make a fool out of you everytime.

What you have shown me is that you don't practice what you promote in your video. Self Responsibility. You are blaming me for your lack of self responsibility and if that is not making something personal I'm not sure what is. A very helpful tool is then corrupted into a means to judge others and use it for one's own self gratification. If you must paint me with a tar brush to make yourself look better then you need to watch 'your' video again.


It is embarrassing to do that to one's self yes, and its degrading to do that to one's self. And I wince everytime I see people doing it to themselves and degrading each other with things that are meant to elevate us above our own miserable condition. My thread on perversion and corruption of sacred things more than lays that out.

But you have provided the most profound evidence for the basis of this thread and for those who were seeking examples of their mind at work I am sure they are eternally grateful to you.

I know I am.

Exhibit A


I don't think anything of you in particular, Kimberely. Your mistake here is the assumption that I ever think or feel a way about you at all. That is your own inhabited construct staring back at you. Only what your behaviors tell of you. But those are your behaviors I simply didn't agree to make contract with them. I have that right not to.

That is what it means to start becoming free of 'their mind'.

[Kimberley]

Like I said "End of discussion from me." Live long and prosper...All is well!!! Over and out... Much love to us all!!! :groupug:

[9eagle9]

Agreed there's really nothing to be discussed, it had all been laid on the table before you arrived in this thread.

[aikisaw]

9eagle9
The video is more than in alignment with what is being said here. We are drowning in fake love, and new age political correctness.

I'd like to pick some quotes out of there and paste them up. Can't copy and paste from video though so might be a while.




Here is a link for the full transcript.

http://www.sott.net/article/254412-Love-Reality-and-the-Time-of-Transition-Transcript

Here are two that I liked.

"Love is not a behavior, an attitude, a mannerism. It is not etiquette. It is not convention. Love may express itself in many different ways - softly or forcibly. Love can appear meek. Love can appear strong. Love can challenge you. Love can criticize you. Love can expose your illusions, your fantasies and your self-deception. Love is not what people really mean when they talk about love, in nearly all circumstances. Real love emanates from Knowledge. It, in essence, is the expression of Knowledge. Only Knowledge can take you there. Knowledge can bring two people from opposite ends of the world together for a greater purpose. That is the power of the Great Love. And the Great Love is what the world needs now."

- Marshall Vian Summers

"Everyone who "believes" in an attempt to "create reality" that is different from what IS, adds to the increase of chaos and entropy. If your beliefs are orthogonal to the truth, no matter how strongly you believe them, you are essentially coming into conflict with how the Universe views itself and I can assure you, you ain't gonna win that contest. You are inviting destruction upon yourself and all who engage in this "staring down the universe" exercise with you.

On the other hand, if you are able to view the Universe as it views itself, objectively, without blinking, and with acceptance of the reality and appropriate responses to how things really are, you then become more "aligned" with the Creative energy of the universe and your very consciousness becomes a transducer of order energy, and your actions are consonant with what is. Your energy of observation, given unconditionally, matched by the appropriate actions, can bring order to chaos, can create out of infinite potential."

- from "The Secret History of the World" by Laura Knight-Jadczyk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrAgb1-UKQ8

[9eagle9]

Your energy of observation, given unconditionally, matched by the appropriate actions, can bring order to chaos, can create out of infinite potential."


I do believe that is what is occuring in the most current "Mike Powers' Sandy Hook thread. Events that seemingly went unnoticed and were gratioutiously accepted are now being scrutinized. Events seem to be changing but they'd normally be accepted as is if they were not so closely observed. It seems the more we watch it the more it changes.

9/11 we didn't stare at for long and perhaps didn't see what was really occuring. When we began observing it in hindsight it all began to change from the official story to one that was a bit more truthful. Demolition experts observed that the buildings fell in a way that was in alignment with the laws of demolition.

But when one firsts enters onto the pathways of mysticism the first thing a person finds out is they are required to observe. Anything. It doesn't have to be profound. Observe a tree, observe your environment. Active observational skills, and then active listening skills. What is really being said, from where are they speaking.

Thanks for posting the quotes I'll pick through your link and find some to paste up.

[TargeT]

This link has a avideo embeded in it, at 1:03:00 the movie starts talking about exactly what this thread is about & the verbage used is so close to what 9eagle9 has used in this thread I can only surmise that it uses similar sources; the first hour of the movie is on the topic of UFO's & abductions & how they very likely are not "interstelar space craft" and more likely extra dimensional entities (or even possibly crafts of some sort) that have always existed on this planet & live seperate from time/space in a way we have trouble understanding. The video then goes on to tie these entities to Archons, how they feed off us or use us as a source of sustenance & speaks about breaking free from their influence as our next evolutionary step.
http://veilofreality.com/2011/03/12/ufos-aliens-and-the-question-of-contact-☞-video/

This video has the same producer as the one about false "love and light" so the format and presentation will be very familiar, you can skip the first hour if you like ( I though it was informative, but I'm not particularly interested in UFO's & already think they are extra dimensional expressions) strait do the 1:03:00 mark for a very interesting expansion on this thread with "real life" examples of "their mind" manipulation and outcome.

it was a very good watch & I highly reccomend it.

[AwakeInADream]

Here is a link for the full transcript.

http://www.sott.net/article/254412-Love-Reality-and-the-Time-of-Transition-Transcript


Transcript! Priceless! Thank's Aikisaw!:)

I'm halfway through the video, but that transcript will serve as a quick memory jog further down the line.

This image struck me, since I do know about the psychopath problem, but I'd never taken this notion any further to consider that these people were in fact empty shells without souls.

http://www.sott.net/image/image/s6/122165/large/psychos_in_power.jpg

Could this be true? Are there really people who don't have souls?
(not speaking metaphorically) It's a very uncomfortable thought for me....

[another bob]

Could this be true? Are there really people who don't have souls?
(not speaking metaphorically) It's a very uncomfortable thought for me....

Nanci Danison, whom I referenced in a recent thread, indicated that there are indeed humans walking around without souls -- iow, they are not inhabited by a light being, as are the majority of humans.These folk would never, for example, be moved to ponder matters such as "their true nature", or have any interest whatsoever in "transcendence". She compared them to "extras" in a movie scene.

[9eagle9]

The conservative estimate is 50 percent of literally incapable of having anything but some sort of consciousness to help them navigate the 3d world. The numbers that a lot of alternative researchers are playing with are 80 to 85 percent of the population.

It is disturbing but explains a lot. Easy for me to say; I've had some time to get used to the notion.






Here is a link for the full transcript.

http://www.sott.net/article/254412-Love-Reality-and-the-Time-of-Transition-Transcript


Transcript! Priceless! Thank's Aikisaw!:)

I'm halfway through the video, but that transcript will serve as a quick memory jog further down the line.

This image struck me, since I do know about the psychopath problem, but I'd never taken this notion any further to consider that these people were in fact empty shells without souls.

http://www.sott.net/image/image/s6/122165/large/psychos_in_power.jpg

Could this be true? Are there really people who don't have souls?
(not speaking metaphorically) It's a very uncomfortable thought for me....

[another bob]

The conservative estimate is 50 percent of literally incapable of having anything but some sort of consciousness to help them navigate the 3d world. The numbers that a lot of alternative researchers are playing with are 80 to 85 percent of the population.

IIRC, Nanci made a distinction between those humans who were truly without souls, and those who comprised the vast majority, who were more like sleep-walkers who had the potential to awaken, if only their soul or occupying light body would step up and participate in transformation, rather than just passively observing the weird human animals in their native environment from the "inside", rather than taking responsibility for their vehicle.

[9eagle9]

I too have observed different levels of this phenomenon and with that in mind (no pun intended) more than likely accounts for much of the conflict in the world.

Within that category are those who are really nothing more than 'their' mind. Humans as we think of them to be, inhabited by soul, spirit, higher selves, typically express themselves in multifaceted ways . Those sorts of people are rather one dimensional....I'd hazard my neighbor is one of the finest examples of that sort of density.

[Calz]

The conservative estimate is 50 percent of literally incapable of having anything but some sort of consciousness to help them navigate the 3d world. The numbers that a lot of alternative researchers are playing with are 80 to 85 percent of the population.

It is disturbing but explains a lot. Easy for me to say; I've had some time to get used to the notion.



I followed along with Laura Knight J (and subsequently "organic portals") for a number of years.

Not sure what (if any) relevance this has but when I saw the 80-85% number it brought back memories of the Pete Petersen interview with Bill and Kerry (yeah ... the one that led to some problems).

I linked/quoted it before but don't have time to find it again ... he suggested about 85% of the population are susceptible to mind control whereas the other 15% have "offworld" dna which offers protection of sorts.

[another bob]

... he suggested about 85% of the population are susceptible to mind control whereas the other 15% have "offworld" dna which offers protection of sorts.

Calz, I think here speculation gets tricky, since reportedly many ET species have contributed to the human dna, which might account for the mixed up personality profiles and conflicting urges and desires most of us exhibit too. ;) We want peace, love, happiness and work hard to create pain, hatred and war. We want longevity and over-eat, we want friendship and exploit. Go figure!

[gooty64]

Hey 9E9, could you clarify this sentence or fill in the missing word/typo? I can't quite make sense of this sentence:


The conservative estimate is 50 percent of literally incapable of having anything but some sort of consciousness to help them navigate the 3d world. The numbers that a lot of alternative researchers are playing with are 80 to 85 percent of the population.

It is disturbing but explains a lot. Easy for me to say; I've had some time to get used to the notion.


Oh wait, I think I get it now. You are saying that 50-80% are empty people who need some consciousness (their mind) to fill in their emptiness to manage 3d life/matrix. Right?

[gooty64]

"Love, Reality and the Time of Transition" >>>this is a transforming video!
I used this video on another forum over a year ago to break through some of the fake lightworkery over the top "I Love You More Than Me" fluffy bunny stuff that was polluting that forum (AC).
The video actually helped bring a group of people colliding on the boards closer together!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrAgb1-UKQ8

This video could go in several different threads around the forum.

I give it a 9 out of 10 ...

UPDATE: Whoops! hehe I just realized Aikisaw already posted this! :doh:




I found this video on Houman's Horus Ra thread. I thought it fits in well with this thread.


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UrAgb1-UKQ8#!

That video should be made compulsory viewing for, well, pretty much everyoone really.

... but particularly for budding 'new age spiritualists' and 'truthers'.

[9eagle9]

Yes ..I skipped a word. It should read 50 percent of people...maybe i blanked it out because I'm not sure if they are people...lol.


Hey 9E9, could you clarify this sentence or fill in the missing word/typo? I can't quite make sense of this sentence:


The conservative estimate is 50 percent of literally incapable of having anything but some sort of consciousness to help them navigate the 3d world. The numbers that a lot of alternative researchers are playing with are 80 to 85 percent of the population.

It is disturbing but explains a lot. Easy for me to say; I've had some time to get used to the notion.


Oh wait, I think I get it now. You are saying that 50-80% are empty people who need some consciousness (their mind) to fill in their emptiness to manage 3d life/matrix. Right?

[9eagle9]

You mean the ...ahem...people who spew how much the love you after behaving as if they despise you.

Yes..I know a few. (innocent look).

In all actuality I really questioned my own sanity before I seen that video sometimes wondering if I was just the uncaring compassionless person that everyone on the internet said I was .

No one ever said that to me in real life but you know....internet is 'real' life.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I've been divinely inspired: Unconditional love ONLY exists on the Internet!

[another bob]

In all actuality I really questioned my own sanity before I seen that video sometimes wondering if I was just the uncaring compassionless person that everyone on the internet said I was .

I order my nutritional supplements from an online store, where they also show customer product reviews. I am always suspicious of the few negatives submitted for products that otherwise get overwhelming approval. For example, I occasionally see products that get, say, 5 stars from 80 people, and 2 stars from 3 people. Makes ya wonder about the discrepancy. Anyway, I'd say you might be in a similar situation, vis a vis feedback from members here.

:yo:

[Mark]

Greetings, Friends. I came to Casteneda when I was 14 years old, interestingly, my first summer working as a Red Cross Volunteen, back in 1982 or so, at a military hospital in Washington State. The book was just sitting on a table filled with books and magazines, staring up at me, waiting for me to pick it up. Talk about finding the cure in the place where sickness concentrates. The synchronicity of that personal discovery and the path it led me on to this day continues to amaze.

Here are some relevant quotes I'll share as I formulate a continuation and commentary on this most excellent thread. Someone earlier asked for practices and remedies. There are a few included herein, from the Toltec perspective. From Don Juan (http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan12.html):


The grand trick of those sorcerers of ancient times was to burden the flyers' mind with discipline. They found out that if they taxed the flyers' mind with inner silence, the foreign installation would flee, giving to any one of the practitioners involved in this maneuver the total certainty of the mind's foreign origin. The foreign installation comes back, I assure you, but not as strong, and a process begins in which the fleeing of the flyers' mind becomes routine, until one day it flees permanently. A sad day indeed! That's the day when you have to rely on your own devices, which are nearly zero. There's no one to tell you what to do. There's no mind of foreign origin to dictate the imbecilities you're accustomed to.

My teacher, the nagual Julian, used to warn all his disciples that this was the toughest day in a sorcerer's life, for the real mind that belongs to us, the sum total of our experience, after a lifetime of domination has been rendered shy, insecure, and shifty. Personally, I would say that the real battle of sorcerers begins at that moment. The rest is merely preparation.

Discipline taxes the foreign mind no end, so, through their discipline, sorcerers vanquish the foreign installation.

and ...


The flyers' mind flees forever when a sorcerer succeeds in grabbing on to the vibrating force that holds us together as a conglomerate of energy fields. If a sorcerer maintains that pressure long enough, the flyers' mind flees in defeat. And that's exactly what you are going to do: hold on to the energy that binds you together.

You are fearing the wrath of God, aren't you? Rest assured, that's not your fear. It's the flyers' fear, because it knows that you will do exactly as I'm telling you.

Don't worry, I know for a fact that those attacks wear off very quickly. The flyers' mind has no concentration whatsoever. You're being torn by an internal struggle. Down in the depths of you, you know that you are incapable of refusing the agreement that an indispensable part of you, your glowing coat of awareness, is going to serve as an incomprehensible source of nourishment to, naturally, incomprehensible entities. And another part of you will stand against this situation with all its might.

The sorcerers' revolution is that they refuse to honor agreements in which they did not participate. Nobody ever asked me if I would consent to be eaten by beings of a different kind of awareness. My parents just brought me into this world to be food, like themselves, and that's the end of the story.

The more you think about it, and the more you talk to and observe yourself and your fellow men, the more intense will be the conviction that something has rendered us incapable of any activity or any interaction or any thought that doesn't have the self as its focal point. Your concern, as well as the concern of everyone you know or talk to, is the self.

Somewhere else in this discussion - I can't find the quote presently - Don Juan states that everybody is a victim of the flyers/foreign installation. Everyone without exception, until they - through individualized, personal and comprehensive inner work - learn to control their minds to the extent that the Archonic force must flee as it no longer gains nourishment through invoking emotional responses with its subliminal discursive attacks. There is a danger in speaking on this topic in an arrogant manner - or any manner, for that matter - as that invites more intense attack and potential destabilization of one's life. This destablization will manifest through one's own weak points as exploited through Archonic discursive attack or through the weaknesses of loved ones, family, friends and strangers, all subject to and ruled by the Flyer's collective mind.

It is indeed like the Matrix, where everyone is potentially an Agent until they are unplugged, or that movie with Denzel Washington, Fallen, where the demon moves from person to person, using them to further its own ends. Other people can and are placed into our lives by the Foreign Installation for certain ends, often diabolical in nature from our perception of their effects.

Another source that has been brought to bear in this discussion is Laura Knight-Jadzyck and the Cassiopeans. I came to their work about 5 years ago, read her early stuff - before moving to France and achieving cult status (according to her detractors) - and found some resonance with certain ideas, such as the OPs and the Wave series of queries to the Cassiopeans. To add a couple of highlights regarding Laura Knight-Jadzyck's discussion on Organic Portals (OPs) (http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/organic_portals2.htm):


It becomes clearer then why most "top scientists", in their theories, do not consider the spiritual dimension, or quickly write off any "unconventional" theories. The OP scientist (and just how many OP scientists there are is discussed further below) has no notion whatsoever of "spirit" or of the existence of higher centres. They are incapable of experiencing these higher centres, and therefore their descriptions of the world are lacking them. And because they cannot experience them, they deny their existence for everyone, including for those who are capable of "seeing" what the OP is incapable of seeing. In a materialistic world, where Organic Portals are in their Natural Element, and Souled Beings are NOT, with Organic Portal science drawing the boundary between what is true and what is false, there is no place for the Higher realms. It is "false" compared with the self-evident "truth" of materialism as experienced at all levels by the OP.

and ...


To further demonstrate the working of the organic portal scientific mind, we have the following from Francis Heylighen, a research professor at Free University of Brussels and editor of the Principia Cybernetica Project, "an international organization for the collaborative development of an evolutionary-systemic philosophy". In attempting to convince us of the mind as machine theory, he defines this very situation and gives us an insight into and description of the mind and nature of an organic portal.

In "Is there a Hard Problem of Consciousness" he writes:


First person experiences or qualia are the essentially subjective, personal feelings or experiences that each of us have (e.g. the feeling of "redness" or "cold"), and that cannot be described by words, formulas, programs or any other objective representation. According to some consciousness theorists, such as David Chalmers, an agent without such qualia would merely be a "zombie", a creature that may behave, sense and communicate just like a human being, but that would lack the most crucial aspect of consciousness. The "hard problem" of consciousness research then consists in elucidating the nature of first-person experiences.

We believe that this approach is essentially misguided. If the hypothetical zombie behaves in all respects indistinguishably from a person with consciousness, then the principle of the identity of the indistinguishable would force us to conclude that the "zombie" has consciousness. How else would we know that the people around us aren't zombies? We assume they have conscious experience similar to ourselves because they behave in all other respects similar to us. But if you would take this reasoning seriously, then you might start to get nightmarish fantasies in which you are the only real, conscious person in the world, and all the others are merely sophisticated automatons that pretend to be like you.

Have you ever had this "nightmarish fantasy" that the world is populated by zombies ? Well, guess what, it isn't a fantasy. Half the people out there are exactly that: "sophisticated automatons that pretend to be like you".

It is entirely fitting that he uses the term "agent" (the Matrix movie anyone?) for the type of programmed being, "be they made from flesh and blood or silicon chips".

He goes on to say:


Agents do not sense the world as if they were impersonal, objective bystanders, that try to internally represent the world as it is, independently of themselves. For an agent a sensation is meaningful only to the degree that it relates to the agent's goals, which, in practice, means that it is relevant to the agent's individual survival.

Heylighen is describing the predator's mind. This is startlingly close to the actual real life scenarios of psychopath's behavior and thinking that are presented in Cleckely's book "The Mask of Sanity".

The author concludes :


Consciousness is not some mysterious substance, fluid, or property of matter, but a level of organization emerging from abstract processes and relations. People who search for consciousness in elementary particles (a form of panpsychism that has been suggested as a way to tackle the "hard problem"), because they cannot otherwise explain where the consciousness in our brain comes from, are misguided. Their intuition may be correct insofar that particles, just like any other system, should be seen as relations rather than just as clumps of matter. But to attribute consciousness to these extremely simple types of relations is merely a way to evade the really hard, but solvable, problem of reconstructing the complex cybernetic organization of the human mind in all its details and subtleties.

Here we have seen the Organic Portal view of themselves. Whether or not the individuals named are Organic Portals is not the issue. They may be souled individuals who have not yet been able to see behind the lie of the Personality. As long as that has not happened, souled individuals will function and see the world and themselves as if they were Organic Portals. But it is clear that this manner of "explaining" consciousness is limited, explaining only that particular form of consciousness manifested by the Personality - the exterior man. It can describe the functioning of the OP or the exterior man; it can not do justice to the consciousness of the Seeker engaged in the work of fusion to seat the soul.

I chose these particular quotes in order to reiterate a certain primary point that must not be forgotten. Everybody is infected. According to Vivek's research, that infection is potentially viral, passed down within our very genetic structure and until we each, individually, engaged in a similarly stupendous maneuver such as that Don Juan credits to the flyers, they will return, again and again, adding their baroque and subversive vitriol to the stream of discursiveness that typifies the unawakened mind, until something very specific is done in order to remedy the illness.

So the Flyers are here. They are embedded within each of us. They are whispering to us now. For those who've seen the movie, Cloud Atlas, the Flyer is exemplified by the past-life avataric representation the bedevils Tom Hank's character in the futuristic sketch, constantly whispering to him, evoking gloom and doom, fear and loathing. The flyers are that little voice that whispers to you that you are fat and ugly, skinny and retarded, that you'll never be as smart or as successful as your brother or sister, that everybody's laughing at you behind your back, that you need what someone else has got, that you hate or that you love, all designed as tools to further compromise your sovereignty as an ensouled human being and make you dependent upon and beholden to their thoughts, their mind.

They are not in it for your success. Their final triumph is your death and that last devouring of your luminous egg, which must be like sipping the finest wine for them in satisfaction and intensity. They do not want an end to the drama, as 9e9 has reiterated, they want intensification and for you to go that final distance to total material and spiritual perversion.

Perhaps a large part of the reason that threads like this are so lightly populated is that when reading them, people recognize their own compromised state and so feel unqualified, or afraid, to speak out. They may recognize that they are on one side of the bell curve rather than the other, and decide not to speak because of the personal anguish that might cause. I encourage those in this category to speak on your experiences. Since you are here, reading these words, you are obviously in a space to do something about it, to work on your own compromised state, to achieve a higher form of consciousness. No matter our state of being, we share incarnation and all experiences are valid and meaningful.

The OP aspect is included in order to emphasize the fact that within this Archonic super-structure of culture and institutionalized hierarchical full-spectrum domination, any adherence to structure can be interpreted as an Archonic invasion. And that some individuals are more prone to adhering to the externally-applied structure they represent than others. Any referential aside that includes power relations stemming from personal or institutional sources is the Foreign Installation insinuating itself within the situation. This applies in any situation where two or more people are gathered, or even in an individual situation when you find yourself complying with the directives of your mind - expressed through inner dialogue, an actual conversation with yourself, even - to create some sort of unnecessary-but-mandatory order in your current endeavor, whether that endeavor is washing the dishes or walking without stepping on the sidewalk lines.

Since half of the world's population is non-souled from this perspective and at least 45% of the rest have nominally made themselves that way by complying with the cultural instructions received since birth, resulting in the darkening of their own personal bioluminesence, practically everybody that you talk to, including most of us here, is compromised to a greater or lesser extent, depending upon their own personal work and observed and intuited behavior modifications. Souled individuals that take on sociopathic behavior in order to 'fit in' or succeed in systemic integration suffer the consequences of their actions commiserate with their nature. Non-souled individuals are expressing their natural state of being. The system is everything to one of these groups, to the other, it is an insufferable imposition. But it must be remembered that the gradient is a bell curve, and therefore, its expression is gradual between two very different extremes.

Is this fear-mongering? No. Is this paranoia? No. It is a dispassionate observation based upon a position gleaned from experience personal and collective. Experience that we all have, should we choose to examine it in-depth. By in-depth, I mean the recapitulation process, as described also by Don Juan to Carlos Casteneda. The recapitulation process is not the ordinary rumination that we generally engage in when dwelling upon events of the past. It is a very specific practice designed to clarify a life in preparation for leaving it behind and become clear, what other traditions have called enlightened and no longer prey to the depredations of the Flyers/Archons/Asuras/Foreign Installation.


There is an enormous premium on time. For sorcerers in general, time is of the essence. The challenge I am faced with is that in a very compact unit of time I must cram into you everything there is to know about sorcery as an abstract proposition, but in order to do that I have to build the necessary space in you.

The premise of sorcerers is that in order to bring something in, there must be a space to put it in. If you are filled to the brim with the items of everyday life, there's no space for anything new. That space must be built. Do you see what I mean? The sorcerers of olden times believed that the recapitulation of your life made the space. It does, and much more, of course.

The way sorcerers perform the recapitulation is very formal. It consists of writing a list of all the people they have met, from the present to the very beginning of their lives. Once they have that list, they take the first person on it and recollect everything they can about that person. And I mean everything, every detail. It's better to recapitulate from the present to the past, because the memories of the present are fresh, and in this manner, the recollection ability is honed. What practitioners do is to recollect and breathe. They inhale slowly and deliberately, fanning the head from right to left, in a barely noticeable swing, and exhale in the same fashion.

The inhalations and exhalations should be natural; if they are too rapid, one enters into something called tiring breaths: breaths that require slower breathing afterward in order to calm down the muscles.

Begin making your list today. Divide it by years, by occupations, arrange it in any order you want to, but make it sequential, with the most recent person first, and end with Mommy and Daddy. And then, remember everything about them. No more ado than that. As you practice, you will realize what you're doing.

and ...


The power of the recapitulation is that it stirs up all the garbage of our lives and brings it to the surface.

I'm going to delineate the intricacies of awareness and perception, which are the basis of the recapitulation. I am going to present an arrangement of concepts that you should not take as sorcerers' theories under any conditions, because it is an arrangement formulated by the shamans of ancient Mexico as a result of seeing energy directly as it flows in the universe. I will present the units of this arrangement to you without any attempt at classifying them or ranking them by any predetermined standard.

I'm not interested in classifications. You have been classifying everything all your life. Now you are going to be forced to stay away from classifications. Classifications have a world of their own. After you begin to classify anything, the classification becomes alive, and it rules you. But since classifications never started as energy-giving affairs, they always remain like dead logs. They are not trees; they are merely logs.

The sorcerers of ancient Mexico saw that the universe at large is composed of energy fields in the form of luminous filaments. They saw zillions of them, wherever they turned to see. They also saw that those energy fields arranged themselves into currents of luminous fibers, streams that are constant, perennial forces in the universe. The current or stream of filaments that is related to the recapitulation was named by those sorcerers the dark sea of awareness, and also the Eagle.

Those sorcerers also found out that every creature in the universe is attached to the dark sea of awareness at a round point of luminosity that was apparent when those creatures were perceived as energy. On that point of luminosity, which the sorcerers of ancient Mexico called the assemblage point of human beings, zillions of energy fields from the universe at large, in the form of luminous filaments, converge and go through it. These energy fields are converted into sensory data, and the sensory data is then interpreted and perceived as the world we know. What turns the luminous fibers into sensory data is the dark sea of awareness. Sorcerers see this transformation and call it the glow of awareness, a sheen that extends like a halo around the assemblage point. I'm going to make a statement which, in the understanding of sorcerers, is central to comprehending the scope of the recapitulation.

What we call the senses in organisms is nothing but degrees of awareness. If we accept that the senses are the dark sea of awareness, we have to admit that the interpretation that the senses make of sensory data is also the dark sea of awareness. To face the world around us in the terms that we do is the result of the interpretation system of mankind with which every human being is equipped. Every organism in existence has to have an interpretation system that permits it to function in its surrounding.

The old sorcerers saw that at the moment of death, the dark sea of awareness sucked in, so to speak, through the assemblage point, the awareness of living creatures. They also saw that the dark sea of awareness had a moment's, let's say, hesitation when it was faced with sorcerers who had done a recounting of their lives. Unbeknownst to them, some had done it so thoroughly that the dark sea of awareness took their awareness in the form of their life experiences, but didn't touch their life force. Sorcerers had found out a gigantic truth about the forces of the universe: the dark sea of awareness wants only our life experiences, not our life force.

Sorcerers believe that as we recapitulate our lives, all the debris, as I told you, comes to the surface. We realize our inconsistencies, our repetitions, but something in us puts up a tremendous resistance to recapitulating. Sorcerers say that the road is free only after a gigantic upheaval, after the appearance on our screen of the memory of an event that shakes our foundations with its terrifying clarity of detail. It's the event that drags us to the actual moment that we lived it. Sorcerers call that event the usher, because from then on every event we touch on is relived, not merely remembered.

Walking is always something that precipitates memories. The sorcerers of ancient Mexico believed that everything we live we store as a sensation on the backs of the legs. They considered the backs of the legs to be the warehouse of man's personal history.

Walking will have you ready to begin this sorcerers' maneuver of finding an usher: an event in your life that you will remember with such clarity that it will serve as a spotlight to illuminate everything else in your recapitulation with the same, or comparable, clarity. Do what sorcerers call recapitulating pieces of a puzzle. Something will lead you to remember the event that will serve as your usher. Give it your best shot; do your best.

While we may not hold many of the same beliefs that are expressed above, the base idea remains salient. The instructions, while being very specific and subject to modification, are also salient. Only half of the population of the planet are able to get this. To do it. That is disturbing only to the extent that we generalize about the nature of humanity, assigning personal characteristics that continue to be patently unobserveable in the behavior patterns of the general populace. And the majority of that half is under the spell of the Foreign Installation right this moment. Even those of us who are awake, those who gather and discuss here included, continue to experiences instances where our discursiveness immediately informs us that we have a Flyer infiltration. The moment when we question someone's motives in writing a post, or in their disagreement with our point, or in our wondering what their motive was, or in our attempts to set others up in writing when we already have an answer set in our minds. This is all infiltration, to the extent that we apply emotional weight to it and it colors our perception and resultant thoughts, words and actions.

The natural state of humanity, as exemplified by the innocence of babies and young children, is one of openness, of living in the Now, of clarity of thought, direct honesty and joy. As the Flyer takes over, as their cloak of control darkens our luminescence, we grow increasingly more dense, concentrated, baroque. We then interact almost exclusively within the parameters of the emotional body - with just enough mental body suggestion to initiate the amygdala/hypothalamus-borne fueling of our next attack or defense - pinging each other like medieval puppets on strings while the ultra-dimensional overlords feed on our weaknesses and compliance with their directives. And we think they're our thoughts. That our patterns are our own, individualized, personal. They are not. Clarity of mind as an original state of Being is our birthright.

The thoughts that constantly run through our minds, seemingly coming from elsewhere, are.

Thanks for another great thread, 9e9, adding to the collection of such that have been percolating here in recent weeks. This is indeed, as Don Juan stated, the topic of topics. It is a credit to the site that we have been able to reach a space where such a disturbing topic can be discussed rationally and consistently without the emotional disruptions that we had come to get used to in years past.

[Gardener]

Topic of topics is not an overstatement and I wholeheartedly agree with you Rahkyt and 9E9. And anyone who brings this subject into public scrutiny will be singled out (by the flyer/archon via whatever)for 'special attention' (or loose a few friends), this used to be called a 'vile superstition' in biblical terms, hah! So thank you for pulling these threads together here, warms my heart.
RAHKYT----->

Thanks for another great thread, 9e9, adding to the collection of such that have been percolating here in recent weeks. This is indeed, as Don Juan stated, the topic of topics. It is a credit to the site that we have been able to reach a space where such a disturbing topic can be discussed rationally and consistently without the emotional disruptions that we had come to get used to in years past.

[Flash]

The conservative estimate is 50 percent of literally incapable of having anything but some sort of consciousness to help them navigate the 3d world. The numbers that a lot of alternative researchers are playing with are 80 to 85 percent of the population.

It is disturbing but explains a lot. Easy for me to say; I've had some time to get used to the notion.






Here is a link for the full transcript.

http://www.sott.net/article/254412-Love-Reality-and-the-Time-of-Transition-Transcript


Transcript! Priceless! Thank's Aikisaw!:)

I'm halfway through the video, but that transcript will serve as a quick memory jog further down the line.

This image struck me, since I do know about the psychopath problem, but I'd never taken this notion any further to consider that these people were in fact empty shells without souls.

http://www.sott.net/image/image/s6/122165/large/psychos_in_power.jpg

Could this be true? Are there really people who don't have souls?
(not speaking metaphorically) It's a very uncomfortable thought for me....

I do not know if they do not have soul, but I know there is real psychopaths, those with not possible guilt or human emotion whatsoever. They are very good at imitating. I do think the proportion of those is higher in the 1% top in terms of material riches. There is however many more sleepwalkers.

When 9E9 talks about the right mind and the left mind, I would say that those psychopaths cannot and will not ever have a hint of what the right mind is. It is worthless to even try waking them up and asking for change, they do not have the tools to understand, although they think we are the screwed up ones. In fact, they see exploitation fields for themselves in us. Rakhyt's post further on is very good on this topic as well with Don Juan's flyers.

The gruesome discipline talked about in Buddhism, in Castaneda sorcerer path, even in Theosophy, in Carmody ;) is in fact, in my mind, to free oneself of the ego on one side, but also to tame the human emotions/thoughts and have them under total control in order to have the flyers fly away, and also to be able to counteract the psychopath's ways without emotions. On one hand it brings us over the problem, having an overview that allows for seeing, and also the potential for acting wihtout using what they are using to keep us slaves, emotions and thoughts, left mind thoughts. They do not have emotions and have thoughts that are quite limited in objectives although very smart in efficient processes to reach the objectives. To act on what is going on, we have, at some level, to walk on similar grounds, emotion and thoughtless, while objective oriented, but on a meta level, with the right mind tools they cannot get.

This is difficult to express what I see, but here is my shot at it.

[9eagle9]

Offers protections of sorts, not immunization though, it seems there's a percentage of the population that cracks conditioning easier or is least susceptible to it. Vivek's threads indicate it, or a portion of that quasi-immunity is probably genetic, wherever those genes came from.




The conservative estimate is 50 percent of literally incapable of having anything but some sort of consciousness to help them navigate the 3d world. The numbers that a lot of alternative researchers are playing with are 80 to 85 percent of the population.

It is disturbing but explains a lot. Easy for me to say; I've had some time to get used to the notion.



I followed along with Laura Knight J (and subsequently "organic portals") for a number of years.

Not sure what (if any) relevance this has but when I saw the 80-85% number it brought back memories of the Pete Petersen interview with Bill and Kerry (yeah ... the one that led to some problems).

I linked/quoted it before but don't have time to find it again ... he suggested about 85% of the population are susceptible to mind control whereas the other 15% have "offworld" dna which offers protection of sorts.

[9eagle9]

They do have emotions, they just aren't the sort of emotions that people in their right mind experience. Mostly need emotions, tentactly sticky emotions. And the higher selves are not deficient in emotion, they tend to be even clearer yet of human emotion.

The Disciplines of all Metaphysical paths were intended toward quietening their mind. That somehow got translated into 'the mind'. And the New Age took any sort of discipline whatsoever and tossed it out the window giving it a label rather like corporal punishment. It's not discipline like your parents spanking you (which shows how very little the New Age floof understood) but basically mental discipline. The New age said it was okay and empowering and creative expression to take Tarot cards and turn them into Hello Kitty Oracles.

Metaphysics required a lot of discipline--study. You don't learn anything till you crack the books and practice. The more their mind broke the easier it become and less study was required as a clearer knowingness took over. What first seemed a very fragmented and compartmentalized study suddenly begins to flow together in wholeness.




The conservative estimate is 50 percent of literally incapable of having anything but some sort of consciousness to help them navigate the 3d world. The numbers that a lot of alternative researchers are playing with are 80 to 85 percent of the population.

It is disturbing but explains a lot. Easy for me to say; I've had some time to get used to the notion.






Here is a link for the full transcript.

http://www.sott.net/article/254412-Love-Reality-and-the-Time-of-Transition-Transcript


Transcript! Priceless! Thank's Aikisaw!:)

I'm halfway through the video, but that transcript will serve as a quick memory jog further down the line.

This image struck me, since I do know about the psychopath problem, but I'd never taken this notion any further to consider that these people were in fact empty shells without souls.

http://www.sott.net/image/image/s6/122165/large/psychos_in_power.jpg

Could this be true? Are there really people who don't have souls?
(not speaking metaphorically) It's a very uncomfortable thought for me....

I do not know if they do not have soul, but I know there is real psychopaths, those with not possible guilt or human emotion whatsoever. They are very good at imitating. I do think the proportion of those is higher in the 1% top in terms of material riches. There is however many more sleepwalkers.

When 9E9 talks about the right mind and the left mind, I would say that those psychopaths cannot and will not ever have a hint of what the right mind is. It is worthless to even try waking them up and asking for change, they do not have the tools to understand, although they think we are the screwed up ones. In fact, they see exploitation fields for themselves in us. Rakhyt's post further on is very good on this topic as well with Don Juan's flyers.

The gruesome discipline talked about in Buddhism, in Castaneda sorcerer path, even in Theosophy, in Carmody ;) is in fact, in my mind, to free oneself of the ego on one side, but also to tame the human emotions/thoughts and have them under total control in order to have the flyers fly away, and also to be able to counteract the psychopath's ways without emotions. On one hand it brings us over the problem, having an overview that allows for seeing, and also the potential for acting wihtout using what they are using to keep us slaves, emotions and thoughts, left mind thoughts. They do not have emotions and have thoughts that are quite limited in objectives although very smart in efficient processes to reach the objectives. To act on what is going on, we have, at some level, to walk on similar grounds, emotion and thoughtless, while objective oriented, but on a meta level, with the right mind tools they cannot get.

This is difficult to express what I see, but here is my shot at it.

[Belle]

Offers protections of sorts, not immunization though, it seems there's a percentage of the population that cracks conditioning easier or is least susceptible to it. Vivek's threads indicate it, or a portion of that quasi-immunity is probably genetic, wherever those genes came from.




The conservative estimate is 50 percent of literally incapable of having anything but some sort of consciousness to help them navigate the 3d world. The numbers that a lot of alternative researchers are playing with are 80 to 85 percent of the population.

It is disturbing but explains a lot. Easy for me to say; I've had some time to get used to the notion.



I followed along with Laura Knight J (and subsequently "organic portals") for a number of years.

Not sure what (if any) relevance this has but when I saw the 80-85% number it brought back memories of the Pete Petersen interview with Bill and Kerry (yeah ... the one that led to some problems).

I linked/quoted it before but don't have time to find it again ... he suggested about 85% of the population are susceptible to mind control whereas the other 15% have "offworld" dna which offers protection of sorts.

Once again this reminds me of the Asch and Milgram conformity experiments in 1951 and 1961 respectively.

I made the following post last July...sorry I have trouble linking...


Re: Exasperation Drives One to the Bottom Line.


Not sure how this fits, but it's been on my mind all day...when you mention self management, I think of the 1951 Asch and 1961 Milgram conformity experiments...not sure of the dates, but I think it's close.

In Asch’s conformity study, 25% of people did not conform on any of the trials, and in Milgram’s study, 35% of the participants resisted the influence of the experimenter and refused to continue no matter what the social pressure exerted. So tptb can expect a minimum of 25% of the population to be unaffected by any given scenario. Personally, I had expected it to be less than that...but 25% works.

Of particular interest to me was the Milgram experiment on obedience to authority...you may have heard of this one. This was the study where subjects who thought they were helping an experimenter were told to ask 'someone' in another room questions. If that 'someone' answered incorrectly, the real subject was to shock that 'person' with higher and higher voltages of electricity – up to and beyond a clear danger zone, and in the face of screams, pleading and then silence.

When Milgram asked audiences to whom he presented how many of them thought they would go all the way up the voltage scale, very few hands would raise, but 65% of subjects did just that, illustrating the extent to which people can be drawn to obey an authority figure against their own beliefs.

But here's the part of Milgram's experiments that has stuck with me (iirc): When subjects watched someone else refuse to continue before they themselves participated in the experiment, the number of subjects who then went on to administer shocks all the way up the voltage scale themselves plummeted to about 10%, I believe.

One person acting from their true self (self management?) can have a huge impact on other people; in the Milgram study, lowering the compliance with inflicting cruel physical pain from two-thirds of subjects to one-tenth of subjects.

Imagine if tptb could only count on 10% of people to actively or passively go along with their plans, that would be a lot different than the two-thirds compliance we would otherwise expect, based on Milgram's experiment.

That is the impact that you can have on others when you stay true to what you know and believe, no matter what, and act on it.

Tptb know what factors cause people to conform...they've studied it enough... and they use the same techniques in a variety of ways through a variety of people (Drake, for example). It doesn't matter what you are conforming to...if you are conforming, you are a useful battery.

[Gardener]

Flash, it’s a difficult idea to take on board for anyone, especially when one is ‘brought up’ in specific beliefs, that all human beings have a soul. In the Genesis story it does give a clue about the two races, because man is created twice, and only the second one got to get breathed on. [.....and man became a living soul (‘Adam’). Now it doesn’t say the first lot (pre adamic man) were scrapped, they both got to go forth and multiply.

The psychopathic element appears to be drawn from the ‘pool’ which do not have the wherewithal to develop the soul, to seat it. As Rahkyt said above we are all effectively ‘organic portals’ until we cut through the reaction machine knee jerk reaction stuff, stop feeding, and bring it under conscious control, get in our ‘right’ mind and be able to identify when ‘their’ mind is operating in us.
Kudos to 9E9 for simplifying the jargon in this complex subject, jargon is a tool of ‘their’ mind.

[Flash]

They do have emotions, they just aren't the sort of emotions that people in their right mind experience. Mostly need emotions, tentactly sticky emotions. And the higher selves are not deficient in emotion, they tend to be even clearer yet of human emotion.

The Disciplines of all Metaphysical paths were intended toward quietening their mind. That somehow got translated into 'the mind'. And the New Age took any sort of discipline whatsoever and tossed it out the window giving it a label rather like corporal punishment. It's not discipline like your parents spanking you (which shows how very little the New Age floof understood) but basically mental discipline. The New age said it was okay and empowering and creative expression to take Tarot cards and turn them into Hello Kitty Oracles.

Metaphysics required a lot of discipline--study. You don't learn anything till you crack the books and practice. The more their mind broke the easier it become and less study was required as a clearer knowingness took over. What first seemed a very fragmented and compartmentalized study suddenly begins to flow together in wholeness.




The conservative estimate is 50 percent of literally incapable of having anything but some sort of consciousness to help them navigate the 3d world. The numbers that a lot of alternative researchers are playing with are 80 to 85 percent of the population.

It is disturbing but explains a lot. Easy for me to say; I've had some time to get used to the notion.






Here is a link for the full transcript.

http://www.sott.net/article/254412-Love-Reality-and-the-Time-of-Transition-Transcript


Transcript! Priceless! Thank's Aikisaw!:)

I'm halfway through the video, but that transcript will serve as a quick memory jog further down the line.

This image struck me, since I do know about the psychopath problem, but I'd never taken this notion any further to consider that these people were in fact empty shells without souls.

http://www.sott.net/image/image/s6/122165/large/psychos_in_power.jpg

Could this be true? Are there really people who don't have souls?
(not speaking metaphorically) It's a very uncomfortable thought for me....

I do not know if they do not have soul, but I know there is real psychopaths, those with not possible guilt or human emotion whatsoever. They are very good at imitating. I do think the proportion of those is higher in the 1% top in terms of material riches. There is however many more sleepwalkers.

When 9E9 talks about the right mind and the left mind, I would say that those psychopaths cannot and will not ever have a hint of what the right mind is. It is worthless to even try waking them up and asking for change, they do not have the tools to understand, although they think we are the screwed up ones. In fact, they see exploitation fields for themselves in us. Rakhyt's post further on is very good on this topic as well with Don Juan's flyers.

The gruesome discipline talked about in Buddhism, in Castaneda sorcerer path, even in Theosophy, in Carmody ;) is in fact, in my mind, to free oneself of the ego on one side, but also to tame the human emotions/thoughts and have them under total control in order to have the flyers fly away, and also to be able to counteract the psychopath's ways without emotions. On one hand it brings us over the problem, having an overview that allows for seeing, and also the potential for acting wihtout using what they are using to keep us slaves, emotions and thoughts, left mind thoughts. They do not have emotions and have thoughts that are quite limited in objectives although very smart in efficient processes to reach the objectives. To act on what is going on, we have, at some level, to walk on similar grounds, emotion and thoughtless, while objective oriented, but on a meta level, with the right mind tools they cannot get.

This is difficult to express what I see, but here is my shot at it.

I do not agree with their emotions 9E9. The emotions they have, if we may call it that way, are basic stuff from the primitive mind. Fight or flight kind of (usually fight). They have thrill. They do not comprehend emotions, they can imitate it, because it is usefull and makes the exploitable react in a given way useful to them, but they do not comprehend it nor can process it truly.

They have thrill. That is what I have seen in my close encounters of the fourth kind.


And the higher selves are not deficient in emotion, they tend to be even clearer yet of human emotion.


The higher self emotions are not, in my view, emotions at all. They do not play on the same neuronal circuits as basic human 3D emotions. In fact, they do not come from neuronal circuits periods, but they may play on them. Human emotions are real in 3D and different from the psychopath thrills.

They are, to me, the beginning of translation in 3D of what is happening at higher levels. If not developed enough, we will translate what is happening into human emotions and later on into thoughts. The emotions and thoughts, often based almost entirely on beliefs, become twisted when we are hurts and then, we adopt their mind, often starting in infancy.

THis is the way to get us, so war and everything that hurts will go on to get us as early as possible. Then you have the whole stuff of coming back stamped because of vibrational qualities established before, through these hurts, and the cycle goes on if you believe into reincarnation.

My important point here is that real psychopaths do not have emotions as understood by regular folks.

This is our prime error, to think they are like us, which they use and abuse. They have thrills and go from one thrill to another one. This is why there is no limits to the damage they cause and that they often end up killing their thrill supplier (killing litterally or figuratively). It gives thrill. This include killing the economy, getting two towers destroyed and getting away with it while making money out of it, etc etc.

[greybeard]

Dr David Hawkins
in his lectures said that only 20% of the human race is at and above the level of integrity.
Also that the 80% was not capable of knowing self--- I dont confess to knowing what he meant as he did not elaborate. he also said that not everybody was capable of enlightenment.
His map of consciousness is very helpful.
He calibrated the level of consciousness on a logarithmic scale---- he claimed that people could only act according to their level of consciousness, this made sense to me.
The subject is not my bag so I did not spend time on it.
However the book "Power vs Force" by Dr Hawkins which I am guilty of promoting, relates well to the title of this thread,
He was the most successful Psychiatrist in USA at one point in time
Brief resume of the late Dr Hawkins---- he knew what he was talking about----the mind/consciousness/behaviourism .
Chris

"Dr. Hawkins entered the field of medicine to alleviate human pain and distress, and his work as a physician was pioneering. As Medical Director of the North Nassau Mental Health Center (1956–1980) and Director of Research at Brunswick Hospital (1968–1979) on Long Island, his clinic was the largest practice in the United States, including a suite of twenty–five offices, two thousand outpatients, and several research laboratories. In 1973, he co–authored the ground–breaking work, Orthomolecular Psychiatry with Nobel Laureate chemist Linus Pauling, initiating a new field within psychiatry."


http://www.veritaspub.com/index.php?page=about

[Chester]

Greetings, Friends. I came to Casteneda when I was 14 years old, interestingly, my first summer working as a Red Cross Volunteen, back in 1982 or so, at a military hospital in Washington State. The book was just sitting on a table filled with books and magazines, staring up at me, waiting for me to pick it up. Talk about finding the cure in the place where sickness concentrates. The synchronicity of that personal discovery and the path it led me on to this day continues to amaze.

Here are some relevant quotes I'll share as I formulate a continuation and commentary on this most excellent thread. Someone earlier asked for practices and remedies. There are a few included herein, from the Toltec perspective. From Don Juan (http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan12.html):


The grand trick of those sorcerers of ancient times was to burden the flyers' mind with discipline. They found out that if they taxed the flyers' mind with inner silence, the foreign installation would flee, giving to any one of the practitioners involved in this maneuver the total certainty of the mind's foreign origin. The foreign installation comes back, I assure you, but not as strong, and a process begins in which the fleeing of the flyers' mind becomes routine, until one day it flees permanently. A sad day indeed! That's the day when you have to rely on your own devices, which are nearly zero. There's no one to tell you what to do. There's no mind of foreign origin to dictate the imbecilities you're accustomed to.

My teacher, the nagual Julian, used to warn all his disciples that this was the toughest day in a sorcerer's life, for the real mind that belongs to us, the sum total of our experience, after a lifetime of domination has been rendered shy, insecure, and shifty. Personally, I would say that the real battle of sorcerers begins at that moment. The rest is merely preparation.

Discipline taxes the foreign mind no end, so, through their discipline, sorcerers vanquish the foreign installation.

and ...


The flyers' mind flees forever when a sorcerer succeeds in grabbing on to the vibrating force that holds us together as a conglomerate of energy fields. If a sorcerer maintains that pressure long enough, the flyers' mind flees in defeat. And that's exactly what you are going to do: hold on to the energy that binds you together.

You are fearing the wrath of God, aren't you? Rest assured, that's not your fear. It's the flyers' fear, because it knows that you will do exactly as I'm telling you.

Don't worry, I know for a fact that those attacks wear off very quickly. The flyers' mind has no concentration whatsoever. You're being torn by an internal struggle. Down in the depths of you, you know that you are incapable of refusing the agreement that an indispensable part of you, your glowing coat of awareness, is going to serve as an incomprehensible source of nourishment to, naturally, incomprehensible entities. And another part of you will stand against this situation with all its might.

The sorcerers' revolution is that they refuse to honor agreements in which they did not participate. Nobody ever asked me if I would consent to be eaten by beings of a different kind of awareness. My parents just brought me into this world to be food, like themselves, and that's the end of the story.

The more you think about it, and the more you talk to and observe yourself and your fellow men, the more intense will be the conviction that something has rendered us incapable of any activity or any interaction or any thought that doesn't have the self as its focal point. Your concern, as well as the concern of everyone you know or talk to, is the self.

Somewhere else in this discussion - I can't find the quote presently - Don Juan states that everybody is a victim of the flyers/foreign installation. Everyone without exception, until they - through individualized, personal and comprehensive inner work - learn to control their minds to the extent that the Archonic force must flee as it no longer gains nourishment through invoking emotional responses with its subliminal discursive attacks. There is a danger in speaking on this topic in an arrogant manner - or any manner, for that matter - as that invites more intense attack and potential destabilization of one's life. This destablization will manifest through one's own weak points as exploited through Archonic discursive attack or through the weaknesses of loved ones, family, friends and strangers, all subject to and ruled by the Flyer's collective mind.

It is indeed like the Matrix, where everyone is potentially an Agent until they are unplugged, or that movie with Denzel Washington, Fallen, where the demon moves from person to person, using them to further its own ends. Other people can and are placed into our lives by the Foreign Installation for certain ends, often diabolical in nature from our perception of their effects.

Another source that has been brought to bear in this discussion is Laura Knight-Jadzyck and the Cassiopeans. I came to their work about 5 years ago, read her early stuff - before moving to France and achieving cult status (according to her detractors) - and found some resonance with certain ideas, such as the OPs and the Wave series of queries to the Cassiopeans. To add a couple of highlights regarding Laura Knight-Jadzyck's discussion on Organic Portals (OPs) (http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/organic_portals2.htm):


It becomes clearer then why most "top scientists", in their theories, do not consider the spiritual dimension, or quickly write off any "unconventional" theories. The OP scientist (and just how many OP scientists there are is discussed further below) has no notion whatsoever of "spirit" or of the existence of higher centres. They are incapable of experiencing these higher centres, and therefore their descriptions of the world are lacking them. And because they cannot experience them, they deny their existence for everyone, including for those who are capable of "seeing" what the OP is incapable of seeing. In a materialistic world, where Organic Portals are in their Natural Element, and Souled Beings are NOT, with Organic Portal science drawing the boundary between what is true and what is false, there is no place for the Higher realms. It is "false" compared with the self-evident "truth" of materialism as experienced at all levels by the OP.

and ...


To further demonstrate the working of the organic portal scientific mind, we have the following from Francis Heylighen, a research professor at Free University of Brussels and editor of the Principia Cybernetica Project, "an international organization for the collaborative development of an evolutionary-systemic philosophy". In attempting to convince us of the mind as machine theory, he defines this very situation and gives us an insight into and description of the mind and nature of an organic portal.

In "Is there a Hard Problem of Consciousness" he writes:


First person experiences or qualia are the essentially subjective, personal feelings or experiences that each of us have (e.g. the feeling of "redness" or "cold"), and that cannot be described by words, formulas, programs or any other objective representation. According to some consciousness theorists, such as David Chalmers, an agent without such qualia would merely be a "zombie", a creature that may behave, sense and communicate just like a human being, but that would lack the most crucial aspect of consciousness. The "hard problem" of consciousness research then consists in elucidating the nature of first-person experiences.

We believe that this approach is essentially misguided. If the hypothetical zombie behaves in all respects indistinguishably from a person with consciousness, then the principle of the identity of the indistinguishable would force us to conclude that the "zombie" has consciousness. How else would we know that the people around us aren't zombies? We assume they have conscious experience similar to ourselves because they behave in all other respects similar to us. But if you would take this reasoning seriously, then you might start to get nightmarish fantasies in which you are the only real, conscious person in the world, and all the others are merely sophisticated automatons that pretend to be like you.

Have you ever had this "nightmarish fantasy" that the world is populated by zombies ? Well, guess what, it isn't a fantasy. Half the people out there are exactly that: "sophisticated automatons that pretend to be like you".

It is entirely fitting that he uses the term "agent" (the Matrix movie anyone?) for the type of programmed being, "be they made from flesh and blood or silicon chips".

He goes on to say:


Agents do not sense the world as if they were impersonal, objective bystanders, that try to internally represent the world as it is, independently of themselves. For an agent a sensation is meaningful only to the degree that it relates to the agent's goals, which, in practice, means that it is relevant to the agent's individual survival.

Heylighen is describing the predator's mind. This is startlingly close to the actual real life scenarios of psychopath's behavior and thinking that are presented in Cleckely's book "The Mask of Sanity".

The author concludes :


Consciousness is not some mysterious substance, fluid, or property of matter, but a level of organization emerging from abstract processes and relations. People who search for consciousness in elementary particles (a form of panpsychism that has been suggested as a way to tackle the "hard problem"), because they cannot otherwise explain where the consciousness in our brain comes from, are misguided. Their intuition may be correct insofar that particles, just like any other system, should be seen as relations rather than just as clumps of matter. But to attribute consciousness to these extremely simple types of relations is merely a way to evade the really hard, but solvable, problem of reconstructing the complex cybernetic organization of the human mind in all its details and subtleties.

Here we have seen the Organic Portal view of themselves. Whether or not the individuals named are Organic Portals is not the issue. They may be souled individuals who have not yet been able to see behind the lie of the Personality. As long as that has not happened, souled individuals will function and see the world and themselves as if they were Organic Portals. But it is clear that this manner of "explaining" consciousness is limited, explaining only that particular form of consciousness manifested by the Personality - the exterior man. It can describe the functioning of the OP or the exterior man; it can not do justice to the consciousness of the Seeker engaged in the work of fusion to seat the soul.

I chose these particular quotes in order to reiterate a certain primary point that must not be forgotten. Everybody is infected. According to Vivek's research, that infection is potentially viral, passed down within our very genetic structure and until we each, individually, engaged in a similarly stupendous maneuver such as that Don Juan credits to the flyers, they will return, again and again, adding their baroque and subversive vitriol to the stream of discursiveness that typifies the unawakened mind, until something very specific is done in order to remedy the illness.

So the Flyers are here. They are embedded within each of us. They are whispering to us now. For those who've seen the movie, Cloud Atlas, the Flyer is exemplified by the past-life avataric representation the bedevils Tom Hank's character in the futuristic sketch, constantly whispering to him, evoking gloom and doom, fear and loathing. The flyers are that little voice that whispers to you that you are fat and ugly, skinny and retarded, that you'll never be as smart or as successful as your brother or sister, that everybody's laughing at you behind your back, that you need what someone else has got, that you hate or that you love, all designed as tools to further compromise your sovereignty as an ensouled human being and make you dependent upon and beholden to their thoughts, their mind.

They are not in it for your success. Their final triumph is your death and that last devouring of your luminous egg, which must be like sipping the finest wine for them in satisfaction and intensity. They do not want an end to the drama, as 9e9 has reiterated, they want intensification and for you to go that final distance to total material and spiritual perversion.

Perhaps a large part of the reason that threads like this are so lightly populated is that when reading them, people recognize their own compromised state and so feel unqualified, or afraid, to speak out. They may recognize that they are on one side of the bell curve rather than the other, and decide not to speak because of the personal anguish that might cause. I encourage those in this category to speak on your experiences. Since you are here, reading these words, you are obviously in a space to do something about it, to work on your own compromised state, to achieve a higher form of consciousness. No matter our state of being, we share incarnation and all experiences are valid and meaningful.

The OP aspect is included in order to emphasize the fact that within this Archonic super-structure of culture and institutionalized hierarchical full-spectrum domination, any adherence to structure can be interpreted as an Archonic invasion. And that some individuals are more prone to adhering to the externally-applied structure they represent than others. Any referential aside that includes power relations stemming from personal or institutional sources is the Foreign Installation insinuating itself within the situation. This applies in any situation where two or more people are gathered, or even in an individual situation when you find yourself complying with the directives of your mind - expressed through inner dialogue, an actual conversation with yourself, even - to create some sort of unnecessary-but-mandatory order in your current endeavor, whether that endeavor is washing the dishes or walking without stepping on the sidewalk lines.

Since half of the world's population is non-souled from this perspective and at least 45% of the rest have nominally made themselves that way by complying with the cultural instructions received since birth, resulting in the darkening of their own personal bioluminesence, practically everybody that you talk to, including most of us here, is compromised to a greater or lesser extent, depending upon their own personal work and observed and intuited behavior modifications. Souled individuals that take on sociopathic behavior in order to 'fit in' or succeed in systemic integration suffer the consequences of their actions commiserate with their nature. Non-souled individuals are expressing their natural state of being. The system is everything to one of these groups, to the other, it is an insufferable imposition. But it must be remembered that the gradient is a bell curve, and therefore, its expression is gradual between two very different extremes.

Is this fear-mongering? No. Is this paranoia? No. It is a dispassionate observation based upon a position gleaned from experience personal and collective. Experience that we all have, should we choose to examine it in-depth. By in-depth, I mean the recapitulation process, as described also by Don Juan to Carlos Casteneda. The recapitulation process is not the ordinary rumination that we generally engage in when dwelling upon events of the past. It is a very specific practice designed to clarify a life in preparation for leaving it behind and become clear, what other traditions have called enlightened and no longer prey to the depredations of the Flyers/Archons/Asuras/Foreign Installation.


There is an enormous premium on time. For sorcerers in general, time is of the essence. The challenge I am faced with is that in a very compact unit of time I must cram into you everything there is to know about sorcery as an abstract proposition, but in order to do that I have to build the necessary space in you.

The premise of sorcerers is that in order to bring something in, there must be a space to put it in. If you are filled to the brim with the items of everyday life, there's no space for anything new. That space must be built. Do you see what I mean? The sorcerers of olden times believed that the recapitulation of your life made the space. It does, and much more, of course.

The way sorcerers perform the recapitulation is very formal. It consists of writing a list of all the people they have met, from the present to the very beginning of their lives. Once they have that list, they take the first person on it and recollect everything they can about that person. And I mean everything, every detail. It's better to recapitulate from the present to the past, because the memories of the present are fresh, and in this manner, the recollection ability is honed. What practitioners do is to recollect and breathe. They inhale slowly and deliberately, fanning the head from right to left, in a barely noticeable swing, and exhale in the same fashion.

The inhalations and exhalations should be natural; if they are too rapid, one enters into something called tiring breaths: breaths that require slower breathing afterward in order to calm down the muscles.

Begin making your list today. Divide it by years, by occupations, arrange it in any order you want to, but make it sequential, with the most recent person first, and end with Mommy and Daddy. And then, remember everything about them. No more ado than that. As you practice, you will realize what you're doing.

and ...


The power of the recapitulation is that it stirs up all the garbage of our lives and brings it to the surface.

I'm going to delineate the intricacies of awareness and perception, which are the basis of the recapitulation. I am going to present an arrangement of concepts that you should not take as sorcerers' theories under any conditions, because it is an arrangement formulated by the shamans of ancient Mexico as a result of seeing energy directly as it flows in the universe. I will present the units of this arrangement to you without any attempt at classifying them or ranking them by any predetermined standard.

I'm not interested in classifications. You have been classifying everything all your life. Now you are going to be forced to stay away from classifications. Classifications have a world of their own. After you begin to classify anything, the classification becomes alive, and it rules you. But since classifications never started as energy-giving affairs, they always remain like dead logs. They are not trees; they are merely logs.

The sorcerers of ancient Mexico saw that the universe at large is composed of energy fields in the form of luminous filaments. They saw zillions of them, wherever they turned to see. They also saw that those energy fields arranged themselves into currents of luminous fibers, streams that are constant, perennial forces in the universe. The current or stream of filaments that is related to the recapitulation was named by those sorcerers the dark sea of awareness, and also the Eagle.

Those sorcerers also found out that every creature in the universe is attached to the dark sea of awareness at a round point of luminosity that was apparent when those creatures were perceived as energy. On that point of luminosity, which the sorcerers of ancient Mexico called the assemblage point of human beings, zillions of energy fields from the universe at large, in the form of luminous filaments, converge and go through it. These energy fields are converted into sensory data, and the sensory data is then interpreted and perceived as the world we know. What turns the luminous fibers into sensory data is the dark sea of awareness. Sorcerers see this transformation and call it the glow of awareness, a sheen that extends like a halo around the assemblage point. I'm going to make a statement which, in the understanding of sorcerers, is central to comprehending the scope of the recapitulation.

What we call the senses in organisms is nothing but degrees of awareness. If we accept that the senses are the dark sea of awareness, we have to admit that the interpretation that the senses make of sensory data is also the dark sea of awareness. To face the world around us in the terms that we do is the result of the interpretation system of mankind with which every human being is equipped. Every organism in existence has to have an interpretation system that permits it to function in its surrounding.

The old sorcerers saw that at the moment of death, the dark sea of awareness sucked in, so to speak, through the assemblage point, the awareness of living creatures. They also saw that the dark sea of awareness had a moment's, let's say, hesitation when it was faced with sorcerers who had done a recounting of their lives. Unbeknownst to them, some had done it so thoroughly that the dark sea of awareness took their awareness in the form of their life experiences, but didn't touch their life force. Sorcerers had found out a gigantic truth about the forces of the universe: the dark sea of awareness wants only our life experiences, not our life force.

Sorcerers believe that as we recapitulate our lives, all the debris, as I told you, comes to the surface. We realize our inconsistencies, our repetitions, but something in us puts up a tremendous resistance to recapitulating. Sorcerers say that the road is free only after a gigantic upheaval, after the appearance on our screen of the memory of an event that shakes our foundations with its terrifying clarity of detail. It's the event that drags us to the actual moment that we lived it. Sorcerers call that event the usher, because from then on every event we touch on is relived, not merely remembered.

Walking is always something that precipitates memories. The sorcerers of ancient Mexico believed that everything we live we store as a sensation on the backs of the legs. They considered the backs of the legs to be the warehouse of man's personal history.

Walking will have you ready to begin this sorcerers' maneuver of finding an usher: an event in your life that you will remember with such clarity that it will serve as a spotlight to illuminate everything else in your recapitulation with the same, or comparable, clarity. Do what sorcerers call recapitulating pieces of a puzzle. Something will lead you to remember the event that will serve as your usher. Give it your best shot; do your best.

While we may not hold many of the same beliefs that are expressed above, the base idea remains salient. The instructions, while being very specific and subject to modification, are also salient. Only half of the population of the planet are able to get this. To do it. That is disturbing only to the extent that we generalize about the nature of humanity, assigning personal characteristics that continue to be patently unobserveable in the behavior patterns of the general populace. And the majority of that half is under the spell of the Foreign Installation right this moment. Even those of us who are awake, those who gather and discuss here included, continue to experiences instances where our discursiveness immediately informs us that we have a Flyer infiltration. The moment when we question someone's motives in writing a post, or in their disagreement with our point, or in our wondering what their motive was, or in our attempts to set others up in writing when we already have an answer set in our minds. This is all infiltration, to the extent that we apply emotional weight to it and it colors our perception and resultant thoughts, words and actions.

The natural state of humanity, as exemplified by the innocence of babies and young children, is one of openness, of living in the Now, of clarity of thought, direct honesty and joy. As the Flyer takes over, as their cloak of control darkens our luminescence, we grow increasingly more dense, concentrated, baroque. We then interact almost exclusively within the parameters of the emotional body - with just enough mental body suggestion to initiate the amygdala/hypothalamus-borne fueling of our next attack or defense - pinging each other like medieval puppets on strings while the ultra-dimensional overlords feed on our weaknesses and compliance with their directives. And we think they're our thoughts. That our patterns are our own, individualized, personal. They are not. Clarity of mind as an original state of Being is our birthright.

The thoughts that constantly run through our minds, seemingly coming from elsewhere, are.

Thanks for another great thread, 9e9, adding to the collection of such that have been percolating here in recent weeks. This is indeed, as Don Juan stated, the topic of topics. It is a credit to the site that we have been able to reach a space where such a disturbing topic can be discussed rationally and consistently without the emotional disruptions that we had come to get used to in years past.

To Raykit -

This post of yours hit me hard and in the deepest place it can - within the debate of "soul or no soul" and the debate of "is soul simply another word for Spirit"...

The essence of your post puts forth the possibility that there are those amongst us who have this thing we call "a soul" and that there are those amongst us who do not.

So I have to set up an assumption here to ask my question. If there are indeed these two groups of "whatever we are..." let's say "Spirit beings" because we need some label... and one group is "ensouled" and no Spirit being in the other group has a "soul" then could it be viewed that to look at this scenario is "prejudicial" at a "Spirit" level?

Let me paint this picture another way - we have the ensouled Spirit beings and we have the unensouled Spirit beings... aren't both types of beings still Spirit beings?

How then, if we take the highest road possible, can we deal with this possibility?

For me, I have only one path I can take and that is to love each and every one of us, "ensouled or not" (if this is possible)... and that perhaps individual Spirit beings within the group that currently does not possess a soul, can grow one.

That is an all inclusive view and the only view I feel comfortable with at this time IF... and I am very open to all this - I really don't know... if there is this thing we are calling "soul" and it is not another word for "Spirit."

I would like to explore two other possibilities. What if a third party intelligence was able to intervene between or Spirit and our "body experience" such that this thing we call mind is either not "the individual Spirit's" mind or at least mostly not. And in the slow process of creating a barrier between the Spirit's actual memories of it's true self and it's true past experiences, this third party intelligence implanted the concept/idea that there is this thing called "soul" and that we have somehow ended up with a conclusion that there are ensouled Spirit beings and unensouled Spirit beings which implies another good guy / bad guy scenario but at a level of Spirit which implies spiritual warfare. I can see this as the ultimate divide and conquer tactic so I am concerned about where this view could lead.

Another thing the "soul" might be is a container of residual memory but then the question is - what memories is this "soul" containing? Our own actual memories or perhaps false memories that as we sink further and further into buying into an original falsehood perhaps, we anchor ourselves deeper and deeper into the ground where we are all but forever relegated to that status of a food supply and nothing more.

I found the very best truths to have one universal quality to them and that is they are always simple.

Thus me, as simply a Spirit being having a physical body based experience without the complexity of this thing we call "soul" thrown in strengthens my own personal foundation. So, I can imagine a reader who believes in this thing we call "soul" and then concludes there are those who have a soul and those who do not might lump me under the group that has no soul.

I would agree with their conclusion as I personally reject the idea of soul altogether.

Having said that and because I am still a wee bit infected by the implantations / programmings of this third party intelligence I feel a need to defend myself a bit here and so I want to conclude by saying this.

It is possible that those who we might say "have a soul" are simply Spirit beings (like me) who have chosen to be in positive, right relationship with all and the All. By my making this choice, I am a "good guy" from the point of view of those who wish to live under the natural laws of honoring all and the All. Living in such a way that we do not force upon another anything that is against the will of that other (and this means at every level of their being whether it is conscious or not). That we do not use deception at all whatsoever to the very best of our abilities (as I conclude we are all subject to making this error to some extent).

So is it possible that "soul" vs "souless" is simply a decision at the core level of each and every Spirit being as to whether they choose to be in positive, right relationship with all and the All or whether they choose to be self centric or group centric?

If that is the case, then place me in the group that has a soul but also, be warned, I see us all as simply Spirit beings who, for some reason that I am still working on, have somehow allowed their Spirit's sovereignty to be usurped. - Chester

[9eagle9]

I don't agree with them either I'm simply stating they exist and primarily what drives them is need, greed, and want. They are NEVER full. From a crumb to a corporation to a country they have to have it. I don't imagine those are emotions like we experience when we experience need, want, and beyond 'their' mind people I seldom see authentic beings who are intrinsically greedy or in a state of constant greed.

We may be possessed of this emotions but they are softened and less of a driving force and we can balance them with other facets of ourselves.





They do have emotions, they just aren't the sort of emotions that people in their right mind experience. Mostly need emotions, tentactly sticky emotions. And the higher selves are not deficient in emotion, they tend to be even clearer yet of human emotion.

The Disciplines of all Metaphysical paths were intended toward quietening their mind. That somehow got translated into 'the mind'. And the New Age took any sort of discipline whatsoever and tossed it out the window giving it a label rather like corporal punishment. It's not discipline like your parents spanking you (which shows how very little the New Age floof understood) but basically mental discipline. The New age said it was okay and empowering and creative expression to take Tarot cards and turn them into Hello Kitty Oracles.

Metaphysics required a lot of discipline--study. You don't learn anything till you crack the books and practice. The more their mind broke the easier it become and less study was required as a clearer knowingness took over. What first seemed a very fragmented and compartmentalized study suddenly begins to flow together in wholeness.




The conservative estimate is 50 percent of literally incapable of having anything but some sort of consciousness to help them navigate the 3d world. The numbers that a lot of alternative researchers are playing with are 80 to 85 percent of the population.

It is disturbing but explains a lot. Easy for me to say; I've had some time to get used to the notion.






Here is a link for the full transcript.

http://www.sott.net/article/254412-Love-Reality-and-the-Time-of-Transition-Transcript


Transcript! Priceless! Thank's Aikisaw!:)

I'm halfway through the video, but that transcript will serve as a quick memory jog further down the line.

This image struck me, since I do know about the psychopath problem, but I'd never taken this notion any further to consider that these people were in fact empty shells without souls.

http://www.sott.net/image/image/s6/122165/large/psychos_in_power.jpg

Could this be true? Are there really people who don't have souls?
(not speaking metaphorically) It's a very uncomfortable thought for me....

I do not know if they do not have soul, but I know there is real psychopaths, those with not possible guilt or human emotion whatsoever. They are very good at imitating. I do think the proportion of those is higher in the 1% top in terms of material riches. There is however many more sleepwalkers.

When 9E9 talks about the right mind and the left mind, I would say that those psychopaths cannot and will not ever have a hint of what the right mind is. It is worthless to even try waking them up and asking for change, they do not have the tools to understand, although they think we are the screwed up ones. In fact, they see exploitation fields for themselves in us. Rakhyt's post further on is very good on this topic as well with Don Juan's flyers.

The gruesome discipline talked about in Buddhism, in Castaneda sorcerer path, even in Theosophy, in Carmody ;) is in fact, in my mind, to free oneself of the ego on one side, but also to tame the human emotions/thoughts and have them under total control in order to have the flyers fly away, and also to be able to counteract the psychopath's ways without emotions. On one hand it brings us over the problem, having an overview that allows for seeing, and also the potential for acting wihtout using what they are using to keep us slaves, emotions and thoughts, left mind thoughts. They do not have emotions and have thoughts that are quite limited in objectives although very smart in efficient processes to reach the objectives. To act on what is going on, we have, at some level, to walk on similar grounds, emotion and thoughtless, while objective oriented, but on a meta level, with the right mind tools they cannot get.

This is difficult to express what I see, but here is my shot at it.

I do not agree with their emotions 9E9. The emotions they have, if we may call it that way, are basic stuff from the primitive mind. Fight or flight kind of (usually fight). They have thrill. They do not comprehend emotions, they can imitate it, because it is usefull and makes the exploitable react in a given way useful to them, but they do not comprehend it nor can process it truly.

They have thrill. That is what I have seen in my close encounters of the fourth kind.


And the higher selves are not deficient in emotion, they tend to be even clearer yet of human emotion.


The higher self emotions are not, in my view, emotions at all. They do not play on the same neuronal circuits as basic human 3D emotions. In fact, they do not come from neuronal circuits periods, but they may play on them. Human emotions are real in 3D and different from the psychopath thrills.

They are, to me, the beginning of translation in 3D of what is happening at higher levels. If not developed enough, we will translate what is happening into human emotions and later on into thoughts. The emotions and thoughts, often based almost entirely on beliefs, become twisted when we are hurts and then, we adopt their mind, often starting in infancy.

THis is the way to get us, so war and everything that hurts will go on to get us as early as possible. Then you have the whole stuff of coming back stamped because of vibrational qualities established before, through these hurts, and the cycle goes on if you believe into reincarnation.

My important point here is that real psychopaths do not have emotions as understood by regular folks.

This is our prime error, to think they are like us, which they use and abuse. They have thrills and go from one thrill to another one. This is why there is no limits to the damage they cause and that they often end up killing their thrill supplier (killing litterally or figuratively). It gives thrill. This include killing the economy, getting two towers destroyed and getting away with it while making money out of it, etc etc.

[Gardener]

Hi Chester,
It's those labels again, drive me nuts I don't know about you. Anyway to convey some sort of meaning using language I guess they are one of our tools. The 'tower of babel' covers it I think.
Most important I think is it doesn't matter if you or I are souled or not individually, we can't know who is and who is not until we get to that place (of evolvement) where it no longer matters. Because it doesn't matter.

[Chester]

Hi Chester,
It's those labels again, drive me nuts I don't know about you. Anyway to convey some sort of meaning using language I guess they are one of our tools. The 'tower of babel' covers it I think.
Most important I think is it doesn't matter if you or I are souled or not individually, we can't know who is and who is not until we get to that place (of evolvement) where it no longer matters. Because it doesn't matter.

I agree with the first part of your post but I am of the sense and feeling that it actually does matter and matters now and matters to the vast majority of Spirit beings who appear to be experiencing what to my logical mind is total, unnecessary suffering. Utterly dickriculous to me.

We can do better than this. We should. That is my firm position on the matter and I will not rest in my efforts to push us in that direction now and for our children's sake.

[9eagle9]

There has to be a common ground of understanding and this a relatively new parameter of knowing we are entering into. The components of the psyche. Consciousness, we all has it.

The soul
Spirit
Higher Self and Higher Selves.

Think of higher selves as facets above or transcended beyond 'their mind' or their consciousness.

Awareness vs Consciouness

Will as opposed to Love.

Programming opposed to thinking.

Thinking versus Knowing.

Have a soul but no connection to spirit, have a connection to spirit but no soul. Have neither but consciousness. We see that we start getting a mixed bag of things.

My very very base understanding of this started young, so I've had time to reflect on this . I asked my father is it true that Black People have souls and white people don't.

And he said, not quite but read this. He handed me the book by Alex Hailey called Roots.

I got an abstract awareness then that an immature mind couldn't quite tackle. As an adult I recently picked up again and noticed immediately that the protagonist, Kunta Kinte was aware and observing 'their mind'. What is amazing is that Kinte has basically what one calls a programmed religion which is Islam, but not the Islam we are seeing out in the world today. Yet he is still observing their mind at work.

[Chester]

The has to be a common ground of understanding and this a relatively new parameter of knowing we are entering into. The components of the psyche. Consciousness, we all has it.

The soul
Spirit
Higher Self and Higher Selves.

Think of higher selves as facets above or transcended beyond 'their mind' or their consciousness.

Awareness vs Consciouness

Will as opposed to Love.

Programming opposed to thinking.

Thinking versus Knowing.

Have a soul but no connection to spirit, have a connection to spirit but no soul. Have neither but consciousness. We see that we start getting a mixed bag of things.

My very very base understanding of this started young, so I've had time to reflect on this . I asked my father is it true that Black People have souls and white people don't.

And he said, not quite but read this. He handed me the book by Alex Hailey called Roots.

I got an abstract awareness then that an immature mind couldn't quite tackle. As an adult I recently picked up again and noticed immediately that the protagonist, Kunta Kinte was aware and observing 'their mind'. What is amazing is that Kinte has basically what one calls a programmed religion which is Islam, but not the Islam we are seeing out in the world today. Yet he is still observing their mind at work.

I am respectfully moving away from this degree of complexity. I have learned the hardest of ways that it is best to "Keep it simple, stupid." Something I have learned through my experience with Alcoholics Anonymous. I find when I try and figure out some giant puzzle, I simply create the opportunity for this 3rd party intelligence to divide me and conquer me through my own confusion. I find I enjoy mental masturbation because it appeases my ego but in the end the orgasm I experience is shallow, empty and never results in am improved human being.

I believe part of my problem in this regard is that strange attraction I have to being "the answer man" where I become important because I have figured so much out and thus can be "needed" by others - another trap of the ego... self justification through self deception.

The reality (for me) is that I (and I assume all the rest of us here) either made a poor decision at my Spirit level (the only actual "real" level of my being from my own point of view) or allowed myself to be swayed or convinced to try on an exercise of self deception. Perhaps I may have even been "the leader guy" of the fall... who really knows - but I can say this, I reject it today. That level of control the "matrix" has over me has essentially vanished. I don't have an issue stating this and I don't care at all whatsoever who or what may be threatened by my current view or who might assume I am deceiving myself or who may believe their structural view of who/what I am is incorrect.

[AwakeInADream]

I'm thinking that those born as natural psychopaths who are possibly without soul and are incapable of feeling real emotion,
are likewise incapable of suffering. That those 'empty shell's' merely pretend to suffer.

So could it be said that if you sufferer or have at one time suffered, then you absolutely do have a soul?

I'm getting those 'Bladerunner Blues' again, if I got the Blues, I got soul, right?

I'm also wondering if two psychopaths can have a child that isn't a psychopath?
(if this isn't possible then we may be over run one day, and the world will contain only psychopaths! "Taxi!")

This topic makes me very uncomfortable, but it must be faced...

[9eagle9]

It's not really complex unless you are attempting to examine 7.2 billion people.

Some cars are convertibles, some are T- tops and some are hardshells.

I agree don't get lost down this avenue, but use it as a means of realization.

What does it mean to YOU and YOU only.

[9eagle9]

Yes not real emotions, they are more like manufactured emotions.

Anyone has the ability to manufacture an emotion, ---the term crocodile tears comes to mind. They don't have the ability to do anything but fabricate them.

The new age 'thought' was always about fabricating emotions. Loving everyone, and sending love to people you'd have no idea if you loved or not. Its a means of energy theft actually.


I'm thinking that those born as natural psychopaths who are possibly without soul and are incapable of feeling real emotion,
are likewise incapable of suffering. That those 'empty shell's' merely pretend to suffer.

So could it be said that if you sufferer or have at one time suffered, then you absolutely do have a soul?

I'm getting those 'Bladerunner Blues' again, if I got the Blues, I got soul, right?

I'm also wondering if two psychopaths can have a child that isn't a psychopath?
(if this isn't possible then we may be over run one day, and the world will contain only psychopaths! "Taxi!")

This topic makes me very uncomfortable, but it must be faced...

[Flash]

You are right about the emotional love 9E9. Sending love to those you do not even know, having love for the psychopaths for example, one an energy theft.

However, there is also love, the compassionate universal love that has nothing to do with emotions, but this is being in the right mind anyhow, so we are not talking of this when talking of energy theft. Right.

[Chester]

I'm thinking that those born as natural psychopaths who are possibly without soul and are incapable of feeling real emotion,
are likewise incapable of suffering. That those 'empty shell's' merely pretend to suffer.

So could it be said that if you sufferer or have at one time suffered, then you absolutely do have a soul?

I'm getting those 'Bladerunner Blues' again, if I got the Blues, I got soul, right?

I'm also wondering if two psychopaths can have a child that isn't a psychopath?
(if this isn't possible then we may be over run one day, and the world will contain only psychopaths! "Taxi!")

This topic makes me very uncomfortable, but it must be faced...

This is also where I don't share common ground - I do not believe there are 100% psychopaths at the level of their Spirit. That may simply be my own wsihful thinking. I also know that I am absolutely capable of being a full blown psychopath and I have explored that point of view and rejected it but I came to my rejection conclusion through an exercise I performed within my own mind. So strangely, it happened to be that coming from my weakest "component" (for those who see components) I essentially deconstructed that component. My mind undid my mind where I am now left without "their mind" and thus am able to grow my own mind... if I dare.

So having said that, if Earth boiled down to a war between an "us" and a "them" where the "them" was considered to be psychopaths as defined by most folks on this forum, I am absolutely certain I would side with these so called psychopaths because I reject completely the us/them dynamic in every form and then thus would always side with the underdog.

I only see a "we" and thus my position. I apologize if I offend most here with my view.

and... FLASH!


You are right about the emotional love 9E9. Sending love to those you do not even know, having love for the psychopaths for example, one an energy theft.

However, there is also love, the compassionate universal love that has nothing to do with emotions, but this is being in the right mind anyhow, so we are not talking of this when talking of energy theft. Right.

Love is not Love (to me) if there are qualifications about it - such as "emotional love" or even this lovely ideal so many call "compassionate love" because if one imposes any measurement upon something like Love, then one also becomes the authority as to what Love might be, what is legitimate love, what is emotional (or false love, etc.). I personally doubt any of us would be here at this time and in this place if we were authorities about Love... but what do I know?

If one instead just allows themselves to be their truth at every now moment and one has the conscious (and sub conscious) intention of being at all times in positive, right relationship with all and the All, then one is simply reflecting their inner attitude which in hindsight might be called demonstrations of "love" by those who might feel compelled to judge.

Love happens if it is real... I bet on that fact. I bet on Love but I don't attempt to define it, I just know that Love is my core intention to give/experience.

I have found without exception that Love wins all bets.

[dianna]

hi 9eagle9 -- your posts are fascinating and so very synchronistic for me --- a couple of questions: Are you familiar with the metahistory website and the work of John Lash/do you study comparative mythology, and if so could you comment --- also, I am sidetracked by the idea of who "they" are, where did they originate, and what is the reason "they" need to use "our" minds, to what end --- why do they need to simulate our reality and feed it back to us so we can live there and not in an organic state?

[9eagle9]

This is also where I don't share common ground - I do not believe there are 100% psychopaths at the level of their Spirit. That may simply be my own wsihful thinking



That is what a belief is for the most part. Depending on what one's belief on. I can believe the sun will rise tomorrow because I know that it never sets.Because I and others have observed the psychopath, sociopath, 'their' mind at work, we can trust this to be true.

So having said that, if Earth boiled down to a war between an "us" and a "them" where

If? There has been a war occurring for a very long time. Just because people are not doing anything about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It has, long long long before we were born.

the "them" was considered to be psychopaths as defined by most folks on this forum, I am absolutely certain I would side with these so called psychopaths because I reject completely the us/them dynamic in every form and then thus would always side with the underdog.

That is how they won the war. I'm sure you'll make a fine meal for them. I'm fascinated to know what sort of favors you think may come to you by holding this mindset, which is actually what 'they' would like you to believe because it makes a safe environment for them?

[Flash]

XSo having said that, if Earth boiled down to a war between an "us" and a "them" where the "them" was considered to be psychopaths as defined by most folks on this forum, I am absolutely certain I would side with these so called psychopaths because I reject completely the us/them dynamic in every form and then thus would always side with the underdog.

I only see a "we" and thus my position. I apologize if I offend most here with my view.

and... FLASH!

[QUOTE=Flash;621425]You are right about the emotional love 9E9. Sending love to those you do not even know, having love for the psychopaths for example, one an energy theft.

However, there is also love, the compassionate universal love that has nothing to do with emotions, but this is being in the right mind anyhow, so we are not talking of this when talking of energy theft. Right.

Love is not Love (to me) if there are qualifications about it - such as "emotional love" or even this lovely ideal so many call "compassionate love" because if one imposes any measurement upon something like Love, then one also becomes the authority as to what Love might be, what is legitimate love, what is emotional (or false love, etc.). I personally doubt any of us would be here at this time and in this place if we were authorities about Love... but what do I know?

If one instead just allows themselves to be their truth at every now moment and one has the conscious (and sub conscious) intention of being at all times in positive, right relationship with all and the All, then one is simply reflecting their inner attitude which in hindsight might be called demonstrations of "love" by those who might feel compelled to judge.

Love happens if it is real... I bet on that fact. I bet on Love but I don't attempt to define it, I just know that Love is my core intention to give/experience.

I have found without exception that Love wins all bets.

That was precisely my point Justoneman, Love just happens, without quaification.


from 9e9: That is what a belief is for the most part. Depending on what one's belief on. I can believe the sun will rise tomorrow because I know that it never sets.Because I and others have observed the psychopath, sociopath, 'their' mind at work, we can trust this to be true.



Yes, nothing beats direct experience and observation.


from 9e9:
That is how they won the war. I'm sure you'll make a fine meal for them. I'm fascinated to know what sort of favors you think may come to you by holding this mindset, which is actually what 'they' would like you to believe because it makes a safe environment for them?



Yes, and I bet you were already at one point their fine meal. May be a bigger meal is awaiting them (sorry Chester, i could not resist pulling your leg here)

[9eagle9]

I might add the reason they are sociopath is that they have no access to spirit at any level. We aren't talking about people with sociopathic behaviors we can adopt those behaviors at anytime in our conditioned lives but people who do not have the ability to source anything higher than their own programmed consciousness.

[Calz]

Silly question time.

Most of the "bloodlines" have been brought up with mkultra type environments.

When you have many alters doesn't that "complicate" what a psychopath may be???

Does anyone really have a handle on someone born into such a situation regarding whether or not they have a soul???

Likely too paradoxical ... but perhaps worth consideration?

[AwakeInADream]

I'm just cross posting this here (from Truman's Matrix thread)as it also involves this thread, and my reaction to what I've discovered here.

You see I'm not sure I'm doing the right thing, but I've found myself getting angry lately, and it seems to be doing me good, so long as I observe the direction of the energy flow and keep hold of it.

Is it possible that I really am healing myself through anger?
(or am I fooling myself again?)
-----------------------------------------------------



Having read Dianetics, Mr Hubbard has always struck me as being one of the most profoundly intelligent and clued up individuals there has ever been, but I just wish I could use his memory recovery techniques on myself(with out another person to process me).



One more thought... I don't at all assume I have any answers or solution pathways to give to another, but I have found that my requirement for "remembering" has actually held me back. What I mean is that why do I need to "remember" anything? Because I can't figure out my own truth unless I do? And so if I have this need for remembering and spend my life's focus pursuing memories than potentially span millions of not trillions of years, what then am I doing with the time I have now?

Instead, what I do is I probe the deepest questions and then consider all the possibilities and the... accept what is acceptable and reject what is not.

This is the process I use and why, perhaps, I have come so far. Now... where this "so far" has taken me will have to be judged in hindsight, but something tells me I am on the right track as I have experienced a massive and accelerated rise in sanity within my recent life experience.

EDIT! - Hi Truman! Great thread! Thanks!

I don't think it's the memories themselves that are important, more the releasing of the buried emotions and commands(engrams?) that accompany them, but I suppose it is possible to treat such things to a degree without recourse to the original memory.

I feel I've made a little bit of progress lately simply by allowing myself to get angry at the way I've been used as a battery, and noticing that this time the anger was different. I was making a stand saying "F*** You! Archons!(or whatever they are), I'm taking back what's mine". It didn't flow out of my belly like it would normally because I let it stay inside me, and it felt good! I feel like I was able to keep my 'loosh'.

I mentioned a problem with my sacrel chakra on the last page, but since experiencing this new sort of energizing anger it seems to have cleared up for the first time in over 10 years. I think it has been 9Eagle9's thread that has helped me the most lately, and that video "Love, Reality and the Time of Transition", also the PDF "Blowing the Whistle on Enlightenment". I just felt like I'd been fooled for long enough, and got really mad (at the parasites).

I didn't so much release the anger, but I experienced it fully and consciously without guilt. Just becoming aware of the direction in which the emotions flow is helping, making sure I keep whatever energy I generate.

I haven't really got a clue what I'm doing, but it seems to be working. I guess only time will tell, but I never thought in a million years that getting angry would have a healing effect on me.

[9eagle9]

Hi Dianna , welcome to the jungle!

I am familiar with John Lash’s work, and refer back to it now and again, it’s very relevant to Irish metahistory interestingly enough if where I began sorting all this out, in my own culture. And when people begin sorting out ‘where they came’ from they start seeing the same patterns arising in the early histories of their respective cultures.

I do study mythology quite a lot it’s a very important component to metaphysics, and meta-history.. Tsarion’s work is also quite good also from a metaphysical perspective and he offers on a historical level where some of this ‘mind’set came from although he like myself has focused quite a lot on Irish culture and history.

While this is in alignment with how their mind affects our lives now, Vivek’s has some really good ‘companion’ threads that speculate on the possible organic and nonphysical origins of the parasitical mind.

While I don't think anyone researcher has the entire scoop I think we have enough evidence to start freeing ourselves from the yoke as it were.



hi 9eagle9 -- your posts are fascinating and so very synchronistic for me --- a couple of questions: Are you familiar with the metahistory website and the work of John Lash/do you study comparative mythology, and if so could you comment --- also, I am sidetracked by the idea of who "they" are, where did they originate, and what is the reason "they" need to use "our" minds, to what end --- why do they need to simulate our reality and feed it back to us so we can live there and not in an organic state?

[9eagle9]

I'm not sure I understand your question as you stated it but you brought up a good point in how people can disconnected from soul energy. If you had 120 fake personalities wedged in between who you started out to be and your soul it would be somewhat difficult to connect to that bridge with reality.

I don't think any question is silly at this point, when we look at in the mirror and say, I have something else inhabiting my head that wants to hurt me and i'm completely not aware of it...lol.

Another interesting point that you didn't bring up. Bloodlines that were not raised in MKULTRA environments....

That really scares 'their' minds.


Silly question time.

Most of the "bloodlines" have been brought up with mkultra type environments.

When you have many alters doesn't that "complicate" what a psychopath may be???

Does anyone really have a handle on someone born into such a situation regarding whether or not they have a soul???

Likely too paradoxical ... but perhaps worth consideration?

[9eagle9]

IN the work I've done its not really important to have the total recall of memory. Often times though the memory comes up before the emotion does. Often times the trauma imposed was imposed beyond our conscious recall although watching one's chakra action typically can tell when something rooted in at or about what age.

It is difficult to process intially without the help of another but you really don't need someone's assistance in bringing up rooted in emotions.

Metaphyiscallly speaking fire is the element of Will, and anger is a component of fire as long as its not the petulant 'their mind' sort of anger. It then has a purifying effect especially when directed at 'their' mind.

A prime example is the abused woman who gets so angry at her abuser she is then motivated to change her life and leave them. No one can say that is unloving anger.

It just depends on where the anger is sourced from us or filtered through their mind.



I'm just cross posting this here (from Truman's Matrix thread)as it also involves this thread, and my reaction to what I've discovered here.

You see I'm not sure I'm doing the right thing, but I've found myself getting angry lately, and it seems to be doing me good, so long as I observe the direction of the energy flow and keep hold of it.

Is it possible that I really am healing myself through anger?
(or am I fooling myself again?)
-----------------------------------------------------



Having read Dianetics, Mr Hubbard has always struck me as being one of the most profoundly intelligent and clued up individuals there has ever been, but I just wish I could use his memory recovery techniques on myself(with out another person to process me).



One more thought... I don't at all assume I have any answers or solution pathways to give to another, but I have found that my requirement for "remembering" has actually held me back. What I mean is that why do I need to "remember" anything? Because I can't figure out my own truth unless I do? And so if I have this need for remembering and spend my life's focus pursuing memories than potentially span millions of not trillions of years, what then am I doing with the time I have now?

Instead, what I do is I probe the deepest questions and then consider all the possibilities and the... accept what is acceptable and reject what is not.

This is the process I use and why, perhaps, I have come so far. Now... where this "so far" has taken me will have to be judged in hindsight, but something tells me I am on the right track as I have experienced a massive and accelerated rise in sanity within my recent life experience.

EDIT! - Hi Truman! Great thread! Thanks!

I don't think it's the memories themselves that are important, more the releasing of the buried emotions and commands(engrams?) that accompany them, but I suppose it is possible to treat such things to a degree without recourse to the original memory.

I feel I've made a little bit of progress lately simply by allowing myself to get angry at the way I've been used as a battery, and noticing that this time the anger was different. I was making a stand saying "F*** You! Archons!(or whatever they are), I'm taking back what's mine". It didn't flow out of my belly like it would normally because I let it stay inside me, and it felt good! I feel like I was able to keep my 'loosh'.

I mentioned a problem with my sacrel chakra on the last page, but since experiencing this new sort of energizing anger it seems to have cleared up for the first time in over 10 years. I think it has been 9Eagle9's thread that has helped me the most lately, and that video "Love, Reality and the Time of Transition", also the PDF "Blowing the Whistle on Enlightenment". I just felt like I'd been fooled for long enough, and got really mad (at the parasites).

I didn't so much release the anger, but I experienced it fully and consciously without guilt. Just becoming aware of the direction in which the emotions flow is helping, making sure I keep whatever energy I generate.

I haven't really got a clue what I'm doing, but it seems to be working. I guess only time will tell, but I never thought in a million years that getting angry would have a healing effect on me.

[Curt]

Another interesting point that you didn't bring up. Bloodlines that were not raised in MKULTRA environments....

That really scares 'their' minds.



Now this I would love to hear about. :) I've had a few flashes of insight into this just based on your raising the topic.

[9eagle9]

We? You and their mind? Well yes...lol.

It's not about taking sides. Its about saying 'I am no longer using or inhabiting or empowering their mind'. They are the ones who made this one sided. That is rather obvious if one observes their environment. AT no point in this thread was it ever about 'taking' sides for any reason but simply making the choice to abate the 'their' mind within.

It's about as profound as saying, 'Not buying Amway anymore.' You are making a choice for yourself . That doesn't neccessarily mean you are taking a side. They need our participation to keep the 'their' mind matrix in place. That you are feeling tender towards their feelings suggests perhaps this is not a moral quandry but something in your inner landscape that needs to be cleared.



I'm thinking that those born as natural psychopaths who are possibly without soul and are incapable of feeling real emotion,
are likewise incapable of suffering. That those 'empty shell's' merely pretend to suffer.

So could it be said that if you sufferer or have at one time suffered, then you absolutely do have a soul?

I'm getting those 'Bladerunner Blues' again, if I got the Blues, I got soul, right?

I'm also wondering if two psychopaths can have a child that isn't a psychopath?
(if this isn't possible then we may be over run one day, and the world will contain only psychopaths! "Taxi!")

This topic makes me very uncomfortable, but it must be faced...

This is also where I don't share common ground - I do not believe there are 100% psychopaths at the level of their Spirit. That may simply be my own wsihful thinking. I also know that I am absolutely capable of being a full blown psychopath and I have explored that point of view and rejected it but I came to my rejection conclusion through an exercise I performed within my own mind. So strangely, it happened to be that coming from my weakest "component" (for those who see components) I essentially deconstructed that component. My mind undid my mind where I am now left without "their mind" and thus am able to grow my own mind... if I dare.

So having said that, if Earth boiled down to a war between an "us" and a "them" where the "them" was considered to be psychopaths as defined by most folks on this forum, I am absolutely certain I would side with these so called psychopaths because I reject completely the us/them dynamic in every form and then thus would always side with the underdog.

I only see a "we" and thus my position. I apologize if I offend most here with my view.

and... FLASH!


You are right about the emotional love 9E9. Sending love to those you do not even know, having love for the psychopaths for example, one an energy theft.

However, there is also love, the compassionate universal love that has nothing to do with emotions, but this is being in the right mind anyhow, so we are not talking of this when talking of energy theft. Right.

Love is not Love (to me) if there are qualifications about it - such as "emotional love" or even this lovely ideal so many call "compassionate love" because if one imposes any measurement upon something like Love, then one also becomes the authority as to what Love might be, what is legitimate love, what is emotional (or false love, etc.). I personally doubt any of us would be here at this time and in this place if we were authorities about Love... but what do I know?

If one instead just allows themselves to be their truth at every now moment and one has the conscious (and sub conscious) intention of being at all times in positive, right relationship with all and the All, then one is simply reflecting their inner attitude which in hindsight might be called demonstrations of "love" by those who might feel compelled to judge.

Love happens if it is real... I bet on that fact. I bet on Love but I don't attempt to define it, I just know that Love is my core intention to give/experience.

I have found without exception that Love wins all bets.

[AwakeInADream]

I've noticed that my recent anger feels different, but am I right in thinking that 'they' don't get the loosh so long as I don't feel it flowing out of me?

Could it be that simple?

[Calz]

I've noticed that my recent anger feels different, but am I right in thinking that 'they' don't get the loosh so long as I don't feel it flowing out of me?

Could it be that simple?


Perhaps we need a little payback ... going price for loosh???


http://rlv.zcache.co.uk/funny_gas_price_sign_poster-rc1dd7109043e48d299a1fcc6dc10dc16_t0z_400.jpg

[another bob]

...if Earth boiled down to a war between an "us" and a "them" where the "them" was considered to be psychopaths as defined by most folks on this forum, I am absolutely certain I would side with these so called psychopaths because I reject completely the us/them dynamic in every form and then thus would always side with the underdog.

I only see a "we" and thus my position.


It is common to see folks confusing and conflating levels af awareness, such as Absolute and Relative. For example, at a certain level, there is no "us & them", but we here in the earth realm are not there, and to pretend otherwise is a self-deception. Such a condition is clearly not our current experience of reality, nor will it be for several levels up. Some may get glimpses during various mystical reveries of unity consciousness, but such experiences do not last, and certainly do not pertain to the operative parameters of this density. All division and opposition may be ultimately recognized as illusion, but one's human vibrational frequency will typically still resonate at the level of differentiation, since that is what the human game entails, and in fact, why we are here, playing at "self & other".

[9eagle9]

I'll show you mind if you show me yours. I'm going to my next shift in a few but I'll be back to show and tell and while. In the meantime what were these insights?

[Curt]

I'll show you mind if you show me yours. I'm going to my next shift in a few but I'll be back to show and tell and while. In the meantime what were these insights?

If I had to guess, I'd say there are quite a few folk that fit this description to varying degrees. Plenty of wheat among the chaff.

But there are some who really fit this description. They have it in high concentrations. They have The Wise Blood to use Flannery O'Connor's title totally out of context.

There is a sparkle to these folks, I think. And I'll be damned if a whole pile of them aren't Celts.

[9eagle9]

The Celtics are loaded with lots of Pre Celtic blood like Gaelic for example. Before the Norman and Milesian invasions I mean. Not the only culture to exhibit this but its pretty evidential that is one seat of where indigenous or original people came from. Because that is self preserving sort of blood the past remains alive in a lot of Celts due to bloodlines. In Ireland in particular at one point the Powers That Be exterminated something like one out of every six men because 1) they thought 'man' power is where it was at. Exterminate men and you'll get rid of the 'power'.

The essence of the bloodline is carried along matrilineal lines. If their own belief system had not bound them up they truly would have exterminated a lot of the 'wise blood' of Ireland.

While I'm sure these examples of this in every culture and race Irish/Welsh is the one I'm most familiar with . Ive had people ask me to give other examples like How would you know if you were of one of these bloodlines from Africa. Or Germany or whereever.

I don't know i'm not African or German, I don't have those genetics, so they have nothing to say to me. That's up to the individual to find out.

Shamanic study tends to be initiated around the globe by finding out 'where you came' from to know who you are and what you are about because so much of 'us' is carried genetically.



I'll show you mind if you show me yours. I'm going to my next shift in a few but I'll be back to show and tell and while. In the meantime what were these insights?

If I had to guess, I'd say there are quite a few folk that fit this description to varying degrees. Plenty of wheat among the chaff.

But there are some who really fit this description. They have it in high concentrations. They have The Wise Blood to use Flannery O'Connor's title totally out of context.

There is a sparkle to these folks, I think. And I'll be damned if a whole pile of them aren't Celts.

[Chester]

I'm just cross posting this here (from Truman's Matrix thread)as it also involves this thread, and my reaction to what I've discovered here.

You see I'm not sure I'm doing the right thing, but I've found myself getting angry lately, and it seems to be doing me good, so long as I observe the direction of the energy flow and keep hold of it.

Is it possible that I really am healing myself through anger?
(or am I fooling myself again?)
-----------------------------------------------------



Having read Dianetics, Mr Hubbard has always struck me as being one of the most profoundly intelligent and clued up individuals there has ever been, but I just wish I could use his memory recovery techniques on myself(with out another person to process me).



One more thought... I don't at all assume I have any answers or solution pathways to give to another, but I have found that my requirement for "remembering" has actually held me back. What I mean is that why do I need to "remember" anything? Because I can't figure out my own truth unless I do? And so if I have this need for remembering and spend my life's focus pursuing memories than potentially span millions of not trillions of years, what then am I doing with the time I have now?

Instead, what I do is I probe the deepest questions and then consider all the possibilities and the... accept what is acceptable and reject what is not.

This is the process I use and why, perhaps, I have come so far. Now... where this "so far" has taken me will have to be judged in hindsight, but something tells me I am on the right track as I have experienced a massive and accelerated rise in sanity within my recent life experience.

EDIT! - Hi Truman! Great thread! Thanks!

I don't think it's the memories themselves that are important, more the releasing of the buried emotions and commands(engrams?) that accompany them, but I suppose it is possible to treat such things to a degree without recourse to the original memory.

I feel I've made a little bit of progress lately simply by allowing myself to get angry at the way I've been used as a battery, and noticing that this time the anger was different. I was making a stand saying "F*** You! Archons!(or whatever they are), I'm taking back what's mine". It didn't flow out of my belly like it would normally because I let it stay inside me, and it felt good! I feel like I was able to keep my 'loosh'.

I mentioned a problem with my sacrel chakra on the last page, but since experiencing this new sort of energizing anger it seems to have cleared up for the first time in over 10 years. I think it has been 9Eagle9's thread that has helped me the most lately, and that video "Love, Reality and the Time of Transition", also the PDF "Blowing the Whistle on Enlightenment". I just felt like I'd been fooled for long enough, and got really mad (at the parasites).

I didn't so much release the anger, but I experienced it fully and consciously without guilt. Just becoming aware of the direction in which the emotions flow is helping, making sure I keep whatever energy I generate.

I haven't really got a clue what I'm doing, but it seems to be working. I guess only time will tell, but I never thought in a million years that getting angry would have a healing effect on me.

For me - my current (and only recallable) life experience is what has generated my views at various points along the way of my personal journey. And along the way my views have changed.

I have had significant relationships with many in my current life who folks here would call psychopaths. I still found a fundamental Spirit within them just like I find within this lovely "us" group - the so called "ensouled" group.

I find myself hypocritical and/or arrogant when I consider myself and/or others whom I know closely to possess a soul (or perhaps be labeled non-psychopathic) and at the same time espouse that I have achieved the ability to live in positive, right relationship with all the All then because I can write convincing arguments elevate myself to judge status of another where the result of my judgement is a labeling of another as something we are calling a psychopath with an implication that a psychopath is a psychopath and can never be anything but a psychopath and for this reason can never be anything but pure, irredeemable evil for the rest of the life span of the Spirit being behind the physical bodily expression.

I may at the end of the day have to face being wrong, but I have no doubt I will go to any lengths to prove to myself I am not.

Anyways, to reach this stage and conclusions has been the result of my own experiences in this one and only lifetime to which I have memory access.

Maybe my experience deceives me, but I could not accept the person I would be if I judged any living being as irredeemable. If there perhaps be a definition for unconditional love, maybe it is found in this last statement for those who may have the open heart to see its potential truth.

[Curt]

The Celtics are loaded with lots of Pre Celtic blood like Gaelic for example. Before the Norman and Milesian invasions I mean. Not the only culture to exhibit this but its pretty evidential that is one seat of where indigenous or original people came from. Because that is self preserving sort of blood the past remains alive in a lot of Celts due to bloodlines. In Ireland in particular at one point the Powers That Be exterminated something like one out of every six men because 1) they thought 'man' power is where it was at. Exterminate men and you'll get rid of the 'power'.

The essence of the bloodline is carried along matrilineal lines. If their own belief system had not bound them up they truly would have exterminated a lot of the 'wise blood' of Ireland.

While I'm sure these examples of this in every culture and race Irish/Welsh is the one I'm most familiar with . Ive had people ask me to give other examples like How would you know if you were of one of these bloodlines from Africa. Or Germany or whereever.

I don't know i'm not African or German, I don't have those genetics, so they have nothing to say to me. That's up to the individual to find out.

Shamanic study tends to be initiated around the globe by finding out 'where you came' from to know who you are and what you are about because so much of 'us' is carried genetically.


Funny you mention that. I'm American, and happen now to live in Scotland. But I started researching my own ancestry in order to examine my mother's family, all of whom are of Irish descent. I found that it was difficult to trace records back past 1800 or so which was disappointing.

But, my dad's side of the family were largely New England wasps and I was able to trace a whole heap of them back to the 14th century. It turns out the good folks at the Mormon church had done much of the work for me. :)

I was also able to solve a family mystery and find out my true surname. My dad's paternal grandfather was adopted.

It turns out the real surname originates in Lorraine, France. My ancestors had moved from Lorraine to England where they lived for centuries before emigrating to the US.

That added another element.

I'm now married to a woman born and raised in Northern Ireland, and we live in Scotland. So this is part of the world I like and where I feel at home.

Figuring out this stuff does seem important somehow.

[Chester]

...if Earth boiled down to a war between an "us" and a "them" where the "them" was considered to be psychopaths as defined by most folks on this forum, I am absolutely certain I would side with these so called psychopaths because I reject completely the us/them dynamic in every form and then thus would always side with the underdog.

I only see a "we" and thus my position.


It is common to see folks confusing and conflating levels af awareness, such as Absolute and Relative. For example, at a certain level, there is no "us & them", but we here in the earth realm are not there, and to pretend otherwise is a self-deception. Such a condition is clearly not our current experience of reality, nor will it be for several levels up. Some may get glimpses during various mystical reveries of unity consciousness, but such experiences do not last, and certainly do not pertain to the operative parameters of this density. All division and opposition may be ultimately recognized as illusion, but one's human vibrational frequency will typically still resonate at the level of differentiation, since that is what the human game entails, and in fact, why we are here, playing at "self & other".

If you can find that I have one single enemy, Bob - on planet Earth today, then I will concede to your opinion. There's only one exception I ask you grant me... that of my ex-wife, Lucifera (as I lovingly call her) haha.

[another bob]

...if Earth boiled down to a war between an "us" and a "them" where the "them" was considered to be psychopaths as defined by most folks on this forum, I am absolutely certain I would side with these so called psychopaths because I reject completely the us/them dynamic in every form and then thus would always side with the underdog.

I only see a "we" and thus my position.


It is common to see folks confusing and conflating levels af awareness, such as Absolute and Relative. For example, at a certain level, there is no "us & them", but we here in the earth realm are not there, and to pretend otherwise is a self-deception. Such a condition is clearly not our current experience of reality, nor will it be for several levels up. Some may get glimpses during various mystical reveries of unity consciousness, but such experiences do not last, and certainly do not pertain to the operative parameters of this density. All division and opposition may be ultimately recognized as illusion, but one's human vibrational frequency will typically still resonate at the level of differentiation, since that is what the human game entails, and in fact, why we are here, playing at "self & other".

If you can find that I have one single enemy, Bob - on planet Earth today, then I will concede to your opinion. There's only one exception I ask you grant me... that of my ex-wife, Lucifera (as I lovingly call her) haha.


From the moment of your very first breath you have been engaged in a constant battle with others for resources. You fight others all the time for your survival as a separate body-mind, a particular name and form. To live you must destroy. That is the nature of this realm. Strife and struggle with your environment is a hallmark of your very existence, not to mention with those influences which may be acting on you without your knowledge or consent. This world is what it contains and each thing affects
all others, interdependently. We all kill the children and we all die with them. Don't be fooled.

[Chester]

I might add the reason they are sociopath is that they have no access to spirit at any level. We aren't talking about people with sociopathic behaviors we can adopt those behaviors at anytime in our conditioned lives but people who do not have the ability to source anything higher than their own programmed consciousness.

Ok, this may be true - I don't pretend to know if this is true or not. I won't lie that I do not want to believe this is true, but you present your statement as if it is an absolute truth.

And so, what has convinced you that this is true?

Again... I don't pretend to know if this is true or not true. I do want to know upon what you base this statement that some amongst us who appear to be living, breathing human beings cannot access their Spirit - or that perhaps they re not Spirit beings and yet other human beings are Spirit beings.

Consider the actual implications if this is true.

Now... one more thought I have is that if this is true, I would never, ever be capable nor willing to ever be involved in deciding who has access to their Spirit and who does not. If I took on that role, I would be no better than those behind the Inquisition (IMO).

But also, if this were actually true, then it seems to me the only recourse is for each and every individual to relieve themselves of all implants and then, upon the death of their body vehicle, have the ability to choose and also make the choice to never return to realms such as this.

It is impossible for a Spirit being to draw this sort of line on other beings without making a mistake.

In addition, in your statements, 9eagle9, I was led to believe (I may have misread) that a human appearing being that cannot access their Spirit is forever in this condition (there is zero hope for a true psychopath ever) - is essentially in an impossible condition such that there will always be "us vs them" in this realm and that the only hope for "us" would be the complete elimination of them somehow, someway.

To be landlocked into a creation that presents such a dilemma is unacceptable to me so either I am an idiot (which certainly may be true) or the creator of this particular reality experience is a screwball (and that could certainly be true) and that I and any one else amongst us have somehow found ourselves here makes me conclude we are all probably idiots.

[9eagle9]

Lol. Chester, basically everyone who knows this to be 'the way it is' has done so by observation to varying degrees. After so many people noticed we started comparing notes and arriving in the same place. Having recall of 'other' lives is helpful too. Some people can't access common sense, or have mental blocks concerning 'some' things in the same way some people can't access anything other than what is serving as their functioning consciousness.

People who are very connected and this has nothing to do with their surface persona nor how nice or mean they are have a certain fast vibration level that is clearly felt by anyone but the most blotted out. Some people while clearly alive do not have this life force emanating from them. Not to say that they are all evil , something is missing. Sometimes they can reconnect with that missing part because its not missing but covered up by a hole heap of pain, trauma and alters.

Sometimes there's just 'nothing' there to hook up to.

A woman in Tibet created a human form called a Tulpa. It was not human. It looked human but it had nothing to it but an increasingly nasty attitude. She had to will it back out of existence which took some doing. In no way could it be deemed a human. If she had felt sorry for it god knows what it would have done to her and others. She took responsibility for it because she is the one who created it.

I have not only considered the implications of things like that Chester we 'suffer' them daily. We experience it daily. Do we think that Sandy Hook occurred because of some folks that 'just' made a silly human mistake? Are are we all teetering on the edge of calamity economically, and politically, environmentally, just because some people were behaving humanely? We are in the human condition now because people just made a human error, over and over again for a few eons?

Why this is this way is up for speculation. I haven't suggested that we need to go on witchunts and kill to find disconnected people. It depends on how this disconnect manifests itself. I ignore a whole heap of 'not there' people of both varieties. The ability to connect and having nothing to connect to. I know plenty of them who are NOT out raping, pillaging and burning, there's just not much in there beyond what is on the surface.

Maybe its part of the evolution of becoming human to be that way. The Urantian Papers suggest something along those lines who knows.

and maybe the other opposite track is something that was brought into creation by some other opposing force (other than spirit) because it knew that it could rule the world without succumbing to basic human traits that that opposing force found weak in terms of having total dominion. Compassion, mercy, guilt etc.

the reason we have these discussions is to explore the possibilities in a 360 degree way.



Just because something is in human form does not automatically mean they are which is about the only form that one can inhabit to be at least relatively sentient being on this planet

[9eagle9]

I may at the end of the day have to face being wrong, but I have no doubt I will go to any lengths to prove to myself I am not.


Well instead of making it a matter of right or wrong, base it on the evidence that one procures for themselves. Its not like we don't have evidence of what we are talking about here. How much evidence do you have that EVERYONE is full of God's life, good intentions, and a profound high vibratory life force that indicates they are connected to something besides organic em generated 'let's run our lungs and heart and sends some squirts' to the brain now and again' energy.

If you have that sort of evidence I'm going to be the last person to stick my nose in the air at it because ...it's evidence to the contrary.

Chester truly I'd like nothing more than for the world to mold itself to how I wish it were..

[Chester]

I may at the end of the day have to face being wrong, but I have no doubt I will go to any lengths to prove to myself I am not.


Well instead of making it a matter of right or wrong, base it on the evidence that one procures for themselves. Its not like we don't have evidence of what we are talking about here. How much evidence do you have that EVERYONE is full of God's life, good intentions, and a profound high vibratory life force that indicates they are connected to something besides organic em generated 'let's run our lungs and heart and sends some squirts' to the brain now and again' energy.

If you have that sort of evidence I'm going to be the last person to stick my nose in the air at it because ...it's evidence to the contrary.

Chester truly I'd like nothing more than for the world to mold itself to how I wish it were..

All I said was that I conclude that every manifestation of life has a Spirit behind it and that all Spirit beings have the potential for redemption. You and anyone else can conclude otherwise. I state my view as nothing more than opinion which I came to based solely on what is acceptable to me. You state your view as if it is fact. Therein lies our difference. Clear and simple.

[Chester]

Lol. Chester, basically everyone who knows this to be 'the way it is' has done so by observation to varying degrees. After so many people noticed we started comparing notes and arriving in the same place. Having recall of 'other' lives is helpful too. Some people can't access common sense, or have mental blocks concerning 'some' things in the same way some people can't access anything other than what is serving as their functioning consciousness.

People who are very connected and this has nothing to do with their surface persona nor how nice or mean they are have a certain fast vibration level that is clearly felt by anyone but the most blotted out. Some people while clearly alive do not have this life force emanating from them. Not to say that they are all evil , something is missing. Sometimes they can reconnect with that missing part because its not missing but covered up by a hole heap of pain, trauma and alters.

Sometimes there's just 'nothing' there to hook up to.

A woman in Tibet created a human form called a Tulpa. It was not human. It looked human but it had nothing to it but an increasingly nasty attitude. She had to will it back out of existence which took some doing. In no way could it be deemed a human. If she had felt sorry for it god knows what it would have done to her and others. She took responsibility for it because she is the one who created it.

I have not only considered the implications of things like that Chester we 'suffer' them daily. We experience it daily. Do we think that Sandy Hook occurred because of some folks that 'just' made a silly human mistake? Are are we all teetering on the edge of calamity economically, and politically, environmentally, just because some people were behaving humanely? We are in the human condition now because people just made a human error, over and over again for a few eons?

Why this is this way is up for speculation. I haven't suggested that we need to go on witchunts and kill to find disconnected people. It depends on how this disconnect manifests itself. I ignore a whole heap of 'not there' people of both varieties. The ability to connect and having nothing to connect to. I know plenty of them who are NOT out raping, pillaging and burning, there's just not much in there beyond what is on the surface.

Maybe its part of the evolution of becoming human to be that way. The Urantian Papers suggest something along those lines who knows.

and maybe the other opposite track is something that was brought into creation by some other opposing force (other than spirit) because it knew that it could rule the world without succumbing to basic human traits that that opposing force found weak in terms of having total dominion. Compassion, mercy, guilt etc.

the reason we have these discussions is to explore the possibilities in a 360 degree way.



Just because something is in human form does not automatically mean they are which is about the only form that one can inhabit to be at least relatively sentient being on this planet

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth. Mahatma Ghandi

Just because conclusions are derived by majorities based on the evidence they have accumulated, does not mean they have interpret their evidence accurately. It may instead be a reflection on their lack of greater court awareness.

A sovereign Spirit being does not need others to confirm truths.

[9eagle9]

You are entitled to 'believe' and prove to yourself whatever you like. And good luck with that.

Some people are wanting to find out 'the way it actually is' not what they prefer to believe, and there's enough evidence in Vivek's thread to know that perhaps the 'way that it is' produces more evidence than what we want to believe

If that makes sense. Some people go by what they want to believe and some look at the evidence presented.

[Chester]

You are entitled to 'believe' and prove to yourself whatever you like. And good luck with that.

Some people are wanting to find out 'the way it actually is' not what they prefer to believe, and there's enough evidence in Vivek's thread to know that perhaps the 'way that it is' produces more evidence than what we want to believe

If that makes sense. Some people go by what they want to believe and some look at the evidence presented.

One can become satisfied with a view they are caught up within a matrix such that all these detailed investigations point to truths indeed, but these truths are only true for those who have allowed themselves to remain within the matrix.

My experience has shown me that by extracting myself from the matrix, one can see a different view - even a view one shares with no other Spirit being.

My conclusion is that those who see an us/them in such a way that there appears to be no hope for the both or at least no hope for the them is still, sadly, entrapped within the matrix and that the implant that has held them there is still firmly in place.

I hope that my efforts as well as the efforts of others who have managed to remove such implants can result in a more sane world handed to our children. Beating drums of us/them simply continue the current state of insanity.

All again just an opinion from justoneman

[Chester]

...if Earth boiled down to a war between an "us" and a "them" where the "them" was considered to be psychopaths as defined by most folks on this forum, I am absolutely certain I would side with these so called psychopaths because I reject completely the us/them dynamic in every form and then thus would always side with the underdog.

I only see a "we" and thus my position.


It is common to see folks confusing and conflating levels af awareness, such as Absolute and Relative. For example, at a certain level, there is no "us & them", but we here in the earth realm are not there, and to pretend otherwise is a self-deception. Such a condition is clearly not our current experience of reality, nor will it be for several levels up. Some may get glimpses during various mystical reveries of unity consciousness, but such experiences do not last, and certainly do not pertain to the operative parameters of this density. All division and opposition may be ultimately recognized as illusion, but one's human vibrational frequency will typically still resonate at the level of differentiation, since that is what the human game entails, and in fact, why we are here, playing at "self & other".

If you can find that I have one single enemy, Bob - on planet Earth today, then I will concede to your opinion. There's only one exception I ask you grant me... that of my ex-wife, Lucifera (as I lovingly call her) haha.


From the moment of your very first breath you have been engaged in a constant battle with others for resources. You fight others all the time for your survival as a separate body-mind, a particular name and form. To live you must destroy. That is the nature of this realm. Strife and struggle with your environment is a hallmark of your very existence, not to mention with those influences which may be acting on you without your knowledge or consent. This world is what it contains and each thing affects
all others, interdependently. We all kill the children and we all die with them. Don't be fooled.

This view (and its futile implication) is unacceptable to me. I grant your first sentence is true but the rest appears to be nothing but a projection of what you have settled for upon the rest of us, Bob. One that does not apply to me (anymore).

[9eagle9]

If you are so concerned that these people can be reclaimed by love then it would behoove us to closely examine what their problem is, so one knows clearly if possible and in what way love can fix it.

Nothing is fixed unless one clearly understands the problem.

[AwakeInADream]

If only we could see the soul with some sort of technology...

I wonder if it's even possible that a soul might leave a body at one stage ('give up the ghost'), whilst the body itself carries on living mechanically?
Sleep walking through life...Or inversely, maybe a soul-less body can suddenly become inhabited by a soul?

[Mark]

This is a difficult topic.

That much is granted. As has been stated numerous times, Vivek's thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53625-The-Psyche-Metaphors-of-Meaning&highlight=vivek) is mandatory reading for anyone who wants to understand this topic in-depth. Biology, history, psychology all play an holistic role in determining the parameters of this topic of topics.

Arguing a position based upon opinion and desire is valid at the personal level but not the collective level.

JOM, in order to address your position I will use a difficult observation to contextualize the discussion and expand from there.

There is racism on PA. One of the major facets of Bill's endeavors here is to draw attention to what is termed the "Anglo-Saxon Mission". And yet, every time a discussion on race proceeds the emotional content is raised so high the thread either gets shut down or peters out through non-participation. People like or dislike posts based upon their own personal perception, which is telling when observing the flow of a thread and who relates - or doesn't - to certain points or others. Why might that be so? Because the nature of the conversation is implicit within the discussion. And the nature of the conversation is Archonic. Racism is the bread-and-butter of the Global White Supremacy System (GWSS). Racism is hierarchical, racism is separative, racism is reductive. It is also everywhere, in everything anthropocentric in nature.

Racism is so pervasive that many white people don't even notice it. And at the same time, those same people will state that they are not racist because they do not hold personal prejudice against anyone of a different ethnicity than them. And they will get upset if someone mentions it. Someone reading this right now is upset with me for bringing it up.

But racism is implicit within Western civilization, which is built upon an Archonic structure of command and control. The subtle racism of stereotyping, of feeling discomfort when racial topics are discussed, the overt racism of institutionalization as evidenced by the penal system, the economic system, the social system.

We are all touched by these things. These things make up a part of who we are because we are co-producers of society. We've been indoctrinated into the system since we were children. It is a part of "our" mind which is, in all actuality, an expression of "their" mind. Their mind, which is hierarchical, which is separative, which is reductive. That expression of racism, of prejudice, touches us in a way that is often uncomfortable when it is exposed. It gives rise to feelings of perhaps guilt, or perhaps fear, or perhaps anger, when it is exposed. That results in the whole constellation of emotive responses, drama and loosh producing excess that the flyers devour.

Those who express the extreme psychopathic side of the spectrum are racist by nature. They are egocentric by nature, racism just becomes a natural expression of that ego centrism. Because their total concentration is upon themselves, a hierarchical structure, with them at the top, then proceeds from those most like them to those least like them. From that extreme expression there are gradations of expression all the way to the median expression between the extremes of psychopathy and the extremes of empathy. The Archonic system makes it easy to participate in racialized behavior because it supports it.

For those who express tendencies which support the GWSS, which agree with it and carry out its imperatives without question, there is a strong probability that they fall closer to the psychopathic side of the equation than the empathic side of the equation. For those in our little sub-grouping of the GWSS - the "Awake and Aware" community - there is also a tendency towards a more separative expression than a more inclusive expression. This includes racial genetics, which means bloodlines, or alien panspermia, or grail lineages, all of which concentrate primarily upon European potentialities rather than global potentialities. This is, of course, a generalization and not all-inclusive.

It is perhaps more subtle in this community, but it is there. Here. Elevated with an elitist intellectualism, but still expressive of Archonic tendencies to divide based upon material expression, be that biological or cultural. This is not to say there is no validity in some forms of biological and genetic determinism, but that it is more problematic than helpful and it is also more pervasive among the supposed awakened than many feel comfortable admitting. This particular topic, as directed by the OP, seems to be about working to expose "their" mind and free "our" mind. And yet, in order to do so, we have to work through "their" mind to get to the point where "our" mind can be expressed. There is a contradiction here, as linguistic communication has, in large part, evolved in order to express the imperatives of "their" mind. So we are limited by the medium of communication itself. But we have to work through it, painstakingly and often with many misunderstandings both purposeful and accidental.

The terms per-adamic and adamic have been used in addition to the terms psychopathic and empathic, non-souled and souled. They are terms. Meant to describe traits, not necessarily to pigeon-hole anyone in particular. The Organic Portal aspect of this discussion can be incendiary. The emphasis upon it being biological and yet NOT being racial in the sense that we generally understand it is a difference that makes all of the difference. There are people today, as well as in the past, who use these terms to describe racial groups. Not too long ago, blacks were considered pre-adamics. Probably still are by many. Whites were considered Adamic. Blacks were considered non-souled, whites were considered souled. Blacks were considered psychopathic, whites were considered empathic.

It is said that the OPs possess a group soul, and also that this particular Age is their time to mature into individual souled behavior. That those who currently possess individual souls are about to "graduate" from this plane of existence. From the literature and from the science, it seems that there are indeed genetic differences, biological differences that can and have been measured and documented over many millennia pertaining to this potentiality. It also seems that it is easier for the Flyers to occupy a person who is an OP than it is for them to occupy a person who is a nominal OP but who also has the capacity to fully manifest the psychic gifts of the ensouled.

I recognize the milieu and the difficulties in categorization especially in light of the consideration that the flyer's mind reinforces these differentiation for its own gain. That gain is personally favorable, in that the white or black person that complies with the hierarchical directives of racism "succeeds" within the system. The flyer's mind gains, the individual gains. For those who like to think of themselves as not being complicit in institutionalized racism, a short examination of personal trajectory through social space during a lifetime can reveal successes based more upon compliance and inclusion within the systemic parameters than any personal traits.

By rejecting racism, personal prejudice, and working to remove all benefits gained from living and working within the system of such, we gain freedom. By making choices that conform to higher directives we banish the flyer's mind. This must be true for either souled or nonsouled. The difficulty in doing so for both groups is perhaps different, but the end result is freedom.

[TargeT]

All I said was that I conclude that every manifestation of life has a Spirit behind it and that all Spirit beings have the potential for redemption. You and anyone else can conclude otherwise. I state my view as nothing more than opinion which I came to based solely on what is acceptable to me. You state your view as if it is fact. Therein lies our difference. Clear and simple.

What are these conclusions based on?

Is it possible you see the possibility for redemption in others because you have had it yourself (via your various life struggles; the details of which I am only vaguely familiar with (based on what you have shared here)). If this is the case I think your perception has been altered by personal experience (as it should be) but perhaps to a bit too much of a degree.

If I'm off base then ignore this, but this was my immediate reaction to reading what you are conveying in this and other posts in this thread.

Me personally? I think a GREAT SHOW can be put on by psychopaths, but they eventually always show their true colors when the "show" is (in their mind) no longer necessary. They will then perhaps mimic regret (though it's just the "SHOW" coming back really) and thus we have the formation of the Abuse cycle.

I have seen people go to their grave like this, and I know others following the same path now; I wish it were otherwise, but it does not appear to be; as every time I have hope I just find that is the "SHOW" being put on for me again & it eventually trickles off, as the "SHOW" is never very consistent & takes effort to maintain.




In addition, in your statements, 9eagle9, I was led to believe (I may have misread) that a human appearing being that cannot access their Spirit is forever in this condition (there is zero hope for a true psychopath ever) - is essentially in an impossible condition such that there will always be "us vs them" in this realm and that the only hope for "us" would be the complete elimination of them somehow, someway.


I think this is overly polarized, the majority of psycopaths / sociopaths are really just "annoying" and only when we LET THEM into positions of possible abuse (an agreement of sorts) do problems arise.

There is a VERY VERY tiny portion of them that can be dangerous and should be opposed, but this again, is a bellcurve situation, the vast majority are in the "easy to ignore if you know they are there" catigory IMO.



But racism is implicit within Western civilization, which is built upon an Archonic structure of command and control. The subtle racism of stereotyping, of feeling discomfort when racial topics are discussed, the overt racism of institutionalization as evidenced by the penal system, the economic system, the social system.


I don't even think it should be called racism, it should be called "tribalism" or "diferentism"; it's a program (survival based?) that exists in every human & is perverted by archonic influence because, well it is a base program, a "known" constant & an easy "trigger", all it takes a is a lack of introspective analysis for this base program to be actuated, mix a touch of influence in and you have the various displays of "differentism" mostly a flavor of fear (un-comfort, hate, direct fear, dis-trust, what have you).

[Curt]

This is a difficult topic.

That much is granted. As has been stated numerous times, Vivek's thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53625-The-Psyche-Metaphors-of-Meaning&highlight=vivek) is mandatory reading for anyone who wants to understand this topic in-depth. Biology, history, psychology all play an holistic role in determining the parameters of this topic of topics.

Arguing a position based upon opinion and desire is valid at the personal level but not the collective level.

JOM, in order to address your position I will use a difficult observation to contextualize the discussion and expand from there.

There is racism on PA. One of the major facets of Bill's endeavors here is to draw attention to what is termed the "Anglo-Saxon Mission". And yet, every time a discussion on race proceeds the emotional content is raised so high the thread either gets shut down or peters out through non-participation. People like or dislike posts based upon their own personal perception, which is telling when observing the flow of a thread and who relates - or doesn't - to certain points or others. Why might that be so? Because the nature of the conversation is implicit within the discussion. And the nature of the conversation is Archonic. Racism is the bread-and-butter of the Global White Supremacy System (GWSS). Racism is hierarchical, racism is separative, racism is reductive. It is also everywhere, in everything anthropocentric in nature.

Racism is so pervasive that many white people don't even notice it. And at the same time, those same people will state that they are not racist because they do not hold personal prejudice against anyone of a different ethnicity than them. And they will get upset if someone mentions it. Someone reading this right now is upset with me for bringing it up.

But racism is implicit within Western civilization, which is built upon an Archonic structure of command and control. The subtle racism of stereotyping, of feeling discomfort when racial topics are discussed, the overt racism of institutionalization as evidenced by the penal system, the economic system, the social system.

We are all touched by these things. These things make up a part of who we are because we are co-producers of society. We've been indoctrinated into the system since we were children. It is a part of "our" mind which is, in all actuality, an expression of "their" mind. Their mind, which is hierarchical, which is separative, which is reductive. That expression of racism, of prejudice, touches us in a way that is often uncomfortable when it is exposed. It gives rise to feelings of perhaps guilt, or perhaps fear, or perhaps anger, when it is exposed. That results in the whole constellation of emotive responses, drama and loosh producing excess that the flyers devour.

Those who express the extreme psychopathic side of the spectrum are racist by nature. They are egocentric by nature, racism just becomes a natural expression of that ego centrism. Because their total concentration is upon themselves, a hierarchical structure, with them at the top, then proceeds from those most like them to those least like them. From that extreme expression there are gradations of expression all the way to the median expression between the extremes of psychopathy and the extremes of empathy. The Archonic system makes it easy to participate in racialized behavior because it supports it.

For those who express tendencies which support the GWSS, which agree with it and carry out its imperatives without question, there is a strong probability that they fall closer to the psychopathic side of the equation than the empathic side of the equation. For those in our little sub-grouping of the GWSS - the "Awake and Aware" community - there is also a tendency towards a more separative expression than a more inclusive expression. This includes racial genetics, which means bloodlines, or alien panspermia, or grail lineages, all of which concentrate primarily upon European potentialities rather than global potentialities. This is, of course, a generalization and not all-inclusive.

It is perhaps more subtle in this community, but it is there. Here. Elevated with an elitist intellectualism, but still expressive of Archonic tendencies to divide based upon material expression, be that biological or cultural. This is not to say there is no validity in some forms of biological and genetic determinism, but that it is more problematic than helpful and it is also more pervasive among the supposed awakened than many feel comfortable admitting. This particular topic, as directed by the OP, seems to be about working to expose "their" mind and free "our" mind. And yet, in order to do so, we have to work through "their" mind to get to the point where "our" mind can be expressed. There is a contradiction here, as linguistic communication has, in large part, evolved in order to express the imperatives of "their" mind. So we are limited by the medium of communication itself. But we have to work through it, painstakingly and often with many misunderstandings both purposeful and accidental.

The terms per-adamic and adamic have been used in addition to the terms psychopathic and empathic, non-souled and souled. They are terms. Meant to describe traits, not necessarily to pigeon-hole anyone in particular. The Organic Portal aspect of this discussion can be incendiary. The emphasis upon it being biological and yet NOT being racial in the sense that we generally understand it is a difference that makes all of the difference. There are people today, as well as in the past, who use these terms to describe racial groups. Not too long ago, blacks were considered pre-adamics. Probably still are by many. Whites were considered Adamic. Blacks were considered non-souled, whites were considered souled. Blacks were considered psychopathic, whites were considered empathic.

It is said that the OPs possess a group soul, and also that this particular Age is their time to mature into individual souled behavior. That those who currently possess individual souls are about to "graduate" from this plane of existence. From the literature and from the science, it seems that there are indeed genetic differences, biological differences that can and have been measured and documented over many millennia pertaining to this potentiality. It also seems that it is easier for the Flyers to occupy a person who is an OP than it is for them to occupy a person who is a nominal OP but who also has the capacity to fully manifest the psychic gifts of the ensouled.

I recognize the milieu and the difficulties in categorization especially in light of the consideration that the flyer's mind reinforces these differentiation for its own gain. That gain is personally favorable, in that the white or black person that complies with the hierarchical directives of racism "succeeds" within the system. The flyer's mind gains, the individual gains. For those who like to think of themselves as not being complicit in institutionalized racism, a short examination of personal trajectory through social space during a lifetime can reveal successes based more upon compliance and inclusion within the systemic parameters than any personal traits.

By rejecting racism, personal prejudice, and working to remove all benefits gained from living and working within the system of such, we gain freedom. By making choices that conform to higher directives we banish the flyer's mind. This must be true for either souled or nonsouled. The difficulty in doing so for both groups is perhaps different, but the end result is freedom.

As usual, you express difficult to address concepts in a rational, humane way that I really appreciate. Racism exists- even here.

In fact, I'm re-reading some of my own recent posts in light of what you've said and am rethinking the ways in which subtle, and alarmingly, not-so-subtle bias, has crept into my own way of thinking about things.

So your words here are and will continue to be a resource for me.

And I'm glad you raised the issue within the context of the flyers/Organic Portal discussion because it brought the issue into relief for me personally.

Thank you.

[Calz]

As usual, you express difficult to address concepts in a rational, humane way that I really appreciate.




... and *that* is why he is *Admin Dude* in another dimension on another timeline ...

[cryptic enough?]

good :lol:

[Curt]

As usual, you express difficult to address concepts in a rational, humane way that I really appreciate.




... and *that* is why he is *Admin Dude* in another dimension on another timeline ...

[cryptic enough?]

good :lol:

Heh heh. I do recall that, yes. It was a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away.


:neo:

[Hervé]

Talking of sociopaths/psychopaths/anti-social personalites/suppressive persons (SPs)/organic portals (OPs)...

Remember this no-nonsense piece:


Twilight Of The Psychopaths

by Dr. Kevin Barrett
Spanish version (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_ponerology09.htm)

from TheCanadian (http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/) Website

“Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it.”
– John Lennon, before his murder by CIA mind-control subject Mark David Chapman

When Gandhi was asked his opinion of Western civilization he said it would be a good idea. But that oft-cited quote, is misleading, assuming as it does that civilization is an unmitigated blessing.

Civilized people, we are told, live peacefully and cooperatively with their fellows, sharing the necessary labour in order to obtain the leisure to develop arts and sciences. And while that would be a good idea, it is not a good description of what has been going on in the so-called advanced cultures during the past 8,000 years.

Civilization, as we know it, is largely the creation of psychopaths. All civilizations, our own included, have been based on slavery and “warfare.” Incidentally, the latter term is a euphemism for mass murder.

The prevailing recipe for civilization is simple:
1. Use lies and brainwashing to create an army of controlled, systematic mass murderers
2. Use that army to enslave large numbers of people (i.e. seize control of their labour power and its fruits)
3. Use that slave labour power to improve the brainwashing process (by using the economic surplus to employ scribes, priests, and PR men). Then go back to step one and repeat the process.


Psychopaths have played a disproportionate role in the development of civilization, because they are hard-wired to lie, kill, injure, and generally inflict great suffering on other humans without feeling any remorse. The inventor of civilization — the first tribal chieftain who successfully brainwashed an army of controlled mass murderers—was almost certainly a genetic psychopath.

Since that momentous discovery, psychopaths have enjoyed a significant advantage over non-psychopaths in the struggle for power in civilizational hierarchies — especially military hierarchies.

Military institutions are tailor-made for psychopathic killers. The 5% or so of human males who feel no remorse about killing their fellow human beings make the best soldiers. And the 95% who are extremely reluctant to kill make terrible soldiers — unless they are brainwashed with highly sophisticated modern techniques that turn them (temporarily it is hoped) into functional psychopaths.

In On Killing (http://www.amazon.com/Killing-Psychological-Cost-Learning-Society/dp/0316330116/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208291611&sr=8-1), Lt. Col. Dave Grossman has re-written military history, to highlight what other histories hide: The fact that military science is less about strategy and technology, than about overcoming the instinctive human reluctance to kill members of our own species.

The true “Revolution in Military Affairs” was not Donald Rumsfeld’s move to high-tech in 2001, but Brigadier Gen. S.L.A. Marshall’s discovery in the 1940s that only 15-20% of World War II soldiers along the line of fire would use their weapons:

“Those (80-85%) who did not fire did not run or hide (in many cases they were willing to risk great danger to rescue comrades, get ammunition, or run messages), but they simply would not fire their weapons at the enemy, even when faced with repeated waves of banzai charges”
(Grossman, p. 4).

Marshall’s discovery and subsequent research, proved that in all previous wars, a tiny minority of soldiers — the 5% who are natural-born psychopaths, and perhaps a few temporarily-insane imitators—did almost all the killing.

Normal men just went through the motions and, if at all possible, refused to take the life of an enemy soldier, even if that meant giving up their own. The implication: Wars are ritualized mass murders by psychopaths of non-psychopaths. (This cannot be good for humanity’s genetic endowment!)

Marshall’s work, brought a Copernican revolution to military science. In the past, everyone believed that the soldier willing to kill for his country was the (heroic) norm, while one who refused to fight was a (cowardly) aberration. The truth, as it turned out, was that the normative soldier hailed from the psychopathic five percent.

The sane majority, would rather die than fight.

The implication, too frightening for even the likes of Marshall and Grossman to fully digest, was that the norms for soldiers’ behavior in battle had been set by psychopaths. That meant that psychopaths were in control of the military as an institution.

Worse, it meant that psychopaths were in control of society’s perception of military affairs. Evidently, psychopaths exercised an enormous amount of power in seemingly sane, normal society.

How could that be?

In Political Ponerology (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/polpon/politicalponerologyccr.htm), Andrzej Lobaczewski explains that clinical psychopaths enjoy advantages even in non-violent competitions to climb the ranks of social hierarchies. Because they can lie without remorse (and without the telltale physiological stress that is measured by lie detector tests) psychopaths can always say whatever is necessary to get what they want.

In court, for example, psychopaths can tell extreme bald-faced lies in a plausible manner, while their sane opponents are handicapped by an emotional predisposition to remain within hailing distance of the truth. Too often, the judge or jury imagines that the truth must be somewhere in the middle, and then issues decisions that benefit the psychopath. As with judges and juries, so too with those charged with decisions concerning who to promote and who not to promote in corporate, military and governmental hierarchies.

The result is that all hierarchies inevitably become top-heavy with psychopaths

[...]


Continue here: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/so...nerology08.htm



Well, guess what?

Now, it seems that "they" are hiring leaders of the US military on the basis of the very criteria described in the above paper:


From http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/shock-claim-the-new-litmus-test-of-leadership-in-the-military-is-if-they-will-fire-on-us-citizens-or-not_01222013:

Shock Claim: “The New Litmus Test Of Leadership In The Military Is If They Will Fire On US Citizens Or Not”

Mac Slavo
January 22nd, 2013
SHTFplan.com (http://www.shtfplan.com/)
Comments (529) (http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/shock-claim-the-new-litmus-test-of-leadership-in-the-military-is-if-they-will-fire-on-us-citizens-or-not_01222013#comments)
Read by 30,126 people

Had the following comments been made on a fringe corner of the internet most would dismiss them as outright conjecture. However, what you are about to read comes from one of the world’s foremost philanthropists, Jim Garrow, who has spent tens of millions of dollars of his own money (http://www.humanevents.com/2010/01/26/this-nobel-nominee-actually-saves-babies/) to help over 35,000 Chinese baby girls from near certain death under China’s one-child-per-couple policy.

He was one of the 206 nominees for the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize, which was ultimately awarded to President Barack Obama.

Garrow, who has friends in high places, including the U.S. military, made a startling claim on his Facebook page Sunday, which if true, should leave no doubt about why the Obama administration is moving full force to seize firearms from law abiding Americans and why the US government’s law enforcement and security assets have been making preparations for years in anticipation of social breakdown and widespread civil unrest (http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/military-drills-is-the-army-preparing-for-a-martial-law-scenario-in-united-states-latest-photos_04102012).

According to Garrow, the Obama administration has been rapidly retiring or re-assigning US military leaders based on a new ‘litmus test’ of their loyalty:

I have just been informed by a former senior military leader that Obama is using a new “litmus test” in determining who will stay and who must go in his military leaders. Get ready to explode folks.
“The new litmus test of leadership in the military is if they will fire on US citizens or not”.
Those who will not are being removed.
Dr. Jim Garrow – January 21, 2013 (https://www.facebook.com/jim.garrow.1/posts/10151209214442015)

http://shtfplan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/garrow2.jpg


When pressed for the source of his information and asked why the senior military leader would not reveal his name, Garrow responded by saying, “I believe that the gentleman has done what he should and allowed all of us to sound the alarm.”


He revealed only that the man who shared this information, “is one of America’s foremost military heroes,” suggesting the source is a public figure.


Paul Joseph Watson of Infowars (http://www.infowars.com/nobel-peace-prize-nominee-obama-asks-military-leaders-if-they-will-fire-on-us-citizens/) notes that this new ‘litmus test’ comes at a time when millions of Americans are already suspicious of the government’s motives behind a number of actions, including the most recent push to disarm the population:


Garrow’s claim is even more explosive given that the country is in the throes of a national debate about gun control, with gun rights advocates keen to insist that the founders put the second amendment in the Constitution primarily as a defense against government tyranny.


It also follows reports on Sunday (http://freebeacon.com/report-obama-ousting-centcom-chief-mattis/) that General James Mattis, head of the United States Central Command, “is being told to vacate his office several months earlier than planned.”


Would Jim Garrow put his reputation on the line by spreading a rumor or simply make this up to garner attention?


Or, is it possible that he does in fact have a high level military source who is privy to this information – someone who has himself been removed from his position because he didn’t pass the litmus test?


Should the Obama administration take Executive Actions against Americans in the event of a scenario where gun confiscation becomes reality or a collapse of our economic system leads to a complete meltdown (http://www.shtfplan.com/marc-faber/pentagon-military-actively-war-gaming-large-scale-economic-breakdown-and-civil-unrest_11222010) of law and order on the streets of America, the administration would likely deploy military assets under martial law to subdue any uprisings or riots.


The only way this could be done is if military leaders are willing to command their subordinates to deploy against the American people and fire on them if necessary.

If Garrow’s claims are true, one can only shudder at the thought of what the end-game may be.


Author: Mac Slavo
Views: Read by 30,126 people
Date: January 22nd, 2013
Website: www.SHTFplan.com (http://www.SHTFplan.com)

Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com (http://www.shtfplan.com). Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

[TargeT]

According to Garrow, the Obama administration has been rapidly retiring or re-assigning US military leaders based on a new ‘litmus test’ of their loyalty:

I have just been informed by a former senior military leader that Obama is using a new “litmus test” in determining who will stay and who must go in his military leaders. Get ready to explode folks.
“The new litmus test of leadership in the military is if they will fire on US citizens or not”.
Those who will not are being removed.
Dr. Jim Garrow – January 21, 2013 (https://www.facebook.com/jim.garrow.1/posts/10151209214442015)

http://shtfplan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/garrow2.jpg


VERY hard for me to swallow this one; I'd have to see more really, maybe it "hinted" at that fact or the wording was "close" but I highly doubt it outright said "fire on us citizens"

I am not in high leadership however so I very well could be wrong.

I have seen a lot on "domestic terrorism" which to me equates to the same thing, but it does not outright say US CITIZENS in a blanket way..

I have sat in on drone flight missions (in the US) where posse comitatus was brought up & bitched about how "restrictive" it is, but it is still being followed (though barely).

[Hervé]

According to Garrow, the Obama administration has been rapidly retiring or re-assigning US military leaders based on a new ‘litmus test’ of their loyalty:

I have just been informed by a former senior military leader that Obama is using a new “litmus test” in determining who will stay and who must go in his military leaders. Get ready to explode folks.
“The new litmus test of leadership in the military is if they will fire on US citizens or not”.
Those who will not are being removed.
Dr. Jim Garrow – January 21, 2013 (https://www.facebook.com/jim.garrow.1/posts/10151209214442015)

http://shtfplan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/garrow2.jpg


VERY hard for me to swallow this one; I'd have to see more really, maybe it "hinted" at that fact or the wording was "close" but I highly doubt it outright said "fire on us citizens"

I am not in high leadership however so I very well could be wrong.

I have seen a lot on "domestic terrorism" which to me equates to the same thing, but it does not outright say US CITIZENS in a blanket way..

I have sat in on drone flight missions where posse comitatus was brought up, but it is still being followed (though barely).

I totally understand that and I think that a lot of the military -- current and veteran, especially on or around this forum -- may be prompted to find the info ludicrous.

An indirect way of verifying that info would be to check the list of who gets "retired" from the Arm Forces, who would have otherwise occupied a leadership position?

[Mark]

LOL Thanks Curtis and Calz, no Admin responsibilities here, thank goodness. I shall remain "dude-like" though. :cool:


I don't even think it should be called racism, it should be called "tribalism" or "diferentism"; it's a program (survival based?) that exists in every human & is perverted by archonic influence because, well it is a base program, a "known" constant & an easy "trigger", all it takes a is a lack of introspective analysis for this base program to be actuated, mix a touch of influence in and you have the various displays of "differentism" mostly a flavor of fear (un-comfort, hate, direct fear, dis-trust, what have you).

I can get with that, to the extent that people gravitate to people like them.

But racism is different. The xenophobia and animus that underlies it is systemic. It is an holistic system of control and exclusion that is very formulaic in manner. Very different from people seeing someone who doesn't look like them and being curious about the difference. There is not necessarily violence associated with difference in that instance. That is why in most indigenous cultures during the Ages of Discovery and Imperialism when the Europeans and their motley crews of colonized minds first arrived they were generally greeted in peace and with curiosity.

Racism goes hand-in-hand with capitalism. They augment each other. They both go hand in hand with formal religious creeds, Christianity in particular, which has been patently shaped to encompass the cultural traits that stem from the Archonic infiltration of Western Civilization during the Roman era. Amzer Zo's text regarding warfare and the total apprehension of most people against killing other people is relevant to the extent that there is a certain baseline resonance to societal strictures and, within all formal cultural constructs, non-violence is generally the norm, unless triggered emotionally or through certain systemic key structures.

For racism, googling the "Red Summer of 1919" or "postcards of lynchings" will bring up images of hundreds and thousands of people attending these events. They were ceremonial, they were symbolic, they were intimately Archonic. Today, we have the mass media, which does the same thing but in a much more pervasive manner. Bear witness to the "phenomenal" success of Tarantino's recent film, "Django Unchained". The sacrifices are societal and global now as the GWSS consolidates its hegemony. But all instances of violent expression remain indicative of energetic power sacrifices to the system of White Supremacy and Archonic control.

[TargeT]

It is an holistic system of control and exclusion that is very formulaic in manner. Very different from people seeing someone who doesn't look like them and being curious about the difference. There is not necessarily violence associated with difference in that instance. That is why in most indigenous cultures during the Ages of Discovery and Imperialism the Europeans and their motley crews of colonized minds first arrived they were generally greeted in peace and with curiosity.


What I speak of, “diferentism” does include typical “racist” type of feelings, this built in program is not just “curious” about others, it will favor “it’s own” over others (to include punishment) even when it normally wouldn’t (given a same – same situation vrs a same – different). There was almost an amount of Joy at puninishing "strangers" even when being generous to the strangers would equate to the subject getting "more" for themselfs.

This is all based on the study done with babies to find morality (60 min covered it, there are threads on it in this forum)
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52202-CBSNEWS-60-minutes-Babies-help-unlock-the-origins-of-morality




As for the topic at hand, I can’t see racism as anything but supportive of “their mind” mentality, a very good example.



For racism, googling the "Red Summer of 1919" or "postcards of lynchings" will bring up images of hundreds and thousands of people attending these events. They were ceremonial, they were symbolic, they were intimately Archonic. Today, we have the mass media, which does the same thing but in a much more pervasive manner. Bear witness to the "phenomenal" success of Tarantino's recent film, "Django Unchained". The sacrifices are societal and global now as the GWSS consolidates its hegemony. But all instances of violent expression remain indicative of energetic power sacrifices to the system of White Supremacy and Archonic control.
However:
I must be one of those who "thinks they are not racist" but really are a part of this GWSS you describe. Undoubtedly it could be said to exist, I can see this from observation (lots of white men running the major corporations / governments); I do not understand it however nor the concepts you are speaking of really.

I saw Django Unchanined, I saw it as sort of opening an old wound in an attempt to keep it fresh, it seemed (to me) to play a lot on a desired vindication; but not just by “black people”, I enjoyed the explosion of candy land as much as rest of the audience (majority of them were high melanin content) I thought it was a very interesting presentation of "anger targets" that were then torn down (the slaver collaborating slaves, the ex slave - slaver and of course the slavers themselves, and the various criminal element). That formula along with typical Tarantino style action sequences are what provide the popularity IMO.

But you see, I see all NACCP & other separatist type of actions as refocusing tools, something to keep focus on the differences between us so there is a continued issue.

But again, this is from the perspective of someone who doesn't know what you speak of with the GWSS or all the other racism you say exists; perhaps I am just naive.

[9eagle9]

Which is why slavery was not real capitalism, it was a very sorry circumstance that was capitalized on.

I have always observed that 'race' relations were intended to blur and hide something between us all. Obviously we are not all the same as racial correctness tried to ram down our throats. Why was it so important to their program that we had this perception that we were all the same?

The more honest way of putting it is perhaps I cannot relate to someone as 'Chinese' or Black or Russian, so perhaps we should try to relate on a level that we share.

Now we are going into that level and finding out perhaps we don't share even that.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

And racial tension was self created.

[Mark]

I must be one of those who "thinks they are not racist" but really are a part of this GWSS you describe. Undoubtedly it could be said to exist, I can see this from observation (lots of white men running the major corporations / governments); I do not understand it however nor the concepts you are speaking of really.

There are many, many studies that have documented the "system" of white supremacy, generally ranging from the 1950s onward, with the American Civil Rights movement and the world-wide Decolonization movements that resulted in the nominal "freedom" of many underdeveloped nations from overt colonial rule, research into sociological aspects of human interaction from the perspective of the oppressed became more common. With the quantitative revolution of the 1960s, the formalization of social science research reached a peak and then transformed into the qualitative research paradigm that accompanied the social shifts of the 1970s and 80s, called Postmodernism, which resulted in growing critiques of the scientific meta-narrative and the underlying assumptions therein.

It - institutional and personal racism as prejudice plus power - cannot be disassociated from anything else. But even within the overall context of Western Civilization, there are different modes through which it finds expression, some more overt, some less so.

For example, I lived in Germany for 4 years in the late 80s early 90s. I never experienced anything as close to what I lived in the United States once. The little, unconscious aspects of racism, the institutionalized aspect of it as the perception of the Other, which results in little things, such as people crossing the street when they see you coming, moving to the other side of elevators, moving purses to the other sides of their bodies, gathering their children when you come close, the looks, the eyes, the body language. Things of that sort that each person who engages in that behavior thinks is individual to themselves, but when you are on the other side and subjected to it daily, it becomes noticeable as a pattern, of people doing the same thing like robots, it becomes apparent as a systemic rejection of your body which is different in appearance from theirs, highlighting and focusing upon the Other-ness of your presence and the palpable fear and sometimes even overt hatred that accompanies it. It can build up over a long time in those so targeted, contributing to the overall stress and lower life-spans of those in that position within locales where such psychic trauma is endemic.

In Germany, there was not this same programming. Nobody ran for their kids when I entered a public park. Nobody moved their purse to the other side of their body. I actually walked by a gang of 10+ skinheads in Nuremberg with a blonde, green-eyed beauty on my arm and they didn't give me a passing glance. Now, if I was Turkish, perhaps it would have been different, as there is overt animus toward people of that background even back when I lived there. Canada is much the same in its lack of collective racial tension, I just spent 2 years there. There is not the same unconscious assumption of danger and fear that is found most in evidence in the United States, with its bloody and violent history.

None of the above, while being my personal experience, indicates a total lack of racism. The institutionalization of the sickness instead occurs at such a subliminal level that it is nigh unconscious. I remember one German girlfriend eating a box of candy with a little blackface pickaninny on it and looking at me in innocence while I explained to her that, in America, that would be offensive. An instance, perhaps, of unconscious correlation within the Archonic system, a constant release of energies on the part of the individual and the group that spikes whenever some emotive correlation is made and interactions occur between these unwitting participants and members of outside cultures.

In the context of the Foreign Installation, it speaks to the "sameness" of collectivity, of everybody looking the same, being the same, fitting into a preconceived mold like cogs in a machine. The collective nature of the Archonic invasion is mimicked at the material level by institutionalization and the attempt to fit people who "fit naturally together", who display that "sameness", be it of race, of social status, or whatever characteristic satisfies the underlying need to conform to the flyer's mind as it perverts natural human tendencies with its own structural impositions.


I saw Django Unchanined, I saw it as sort of opening an old wound in an attempt to keep it fresh, it seemed (to me) to play a lot on a desired vindication; but not just by “black people”, I enjoyed the explosion of candy land as much as rest of the audience (majority of them were high melanin content) I thought it was a very interesting presentation of "anger targets" that were then torn down (the slaver collaborating slaves, the ex slave - slaver and of course the slavers themselves, and the various criminal element). That formula along with typical Tarantino style action sequences are what provide the popularity IMO.

But you see, I see all NACCP & other separatist type of actions as refocusing tools, something to keep focus on the differences between us so there is a continued issue.

But again, this is from the perspective of someone who doesn't know what you speak of with the GWSS or all the other racism you say exists; perhaps I am just naive.

Regarding Django, I have not seen it yet but I spent 2 and a half hours the other night reading reviews about it, so I know the plot and its particulars pretty much inside and out by now. I think you're on point regarding the opening of the wound. Louis Farrakhan made an interesting statement about it. He pretty much said, the audiences who watched it did so from two different perspectives. The black audience saw it as redemptive, the white audience saw it as a warning. Farrakhan believes the movie was designed to continue to foment difference and could possible lend fuel to any potential racial flareups that might occur in the near-future.

From my interpretation of what I've read about the movie, I see Jamie Foxx's character as having psychopathic tendencies, the ability to kill without remorse. So, in this instance, he takes the capacity of those who have oppressed him and his people, in effect "fighting fire with fire" and then riding off into the sunset. From the site, mindcontrolblackassassins.com (http://mindcontrolblackassassins.com/2013/01/23/django-unchained-katt-williams-dick-gregory-house-negroes-paul-josef-goebbels/):


...Tarantino made it loud and clear to Negrodom early in the film that the storyline is about the Wagnerian Germanic Folktale of Broomhilda and Siegfried, a tale beloved by Adolf Hitler and Paul Josef Goebbels and the THRID REICH.

The article goes on to detail the links between black Hollywood elite and agendas that are conspiratorially familiar to all of us here and the nature of the historical relation between media and power relationships, as based upon the racial realities of our world.

In regards to you personally, I would not say that you are naive. From your position within the system, it is not necessary for your survival that you see the system at this particular level. You have no reason to, as you, by your biological origin, are not Other to the system. You are the fodder the system seeks to incorporate, to mine for your energetic resources. And so, you have not cultivated the "lens of perception" that Others must that is particularly honed to such things, as they can be the difference between life and death in extreme cases, between getting a job or not in other cases, between having a good day and having that day ruined by someone else's fear and projection in still others.

All energetic harvesting techniques that are now "automatic" within the system. But, for many within the system, like yourself, it is not easy to comply with these almost unconscious directives. This article perhaps gives a sense of the depth of the issue:


Friendliness to minorities often a performance—a fragile one, research suggests (http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/120815_overcorrection.htm)

Aug. 18, 2012
Special to World Science

Many white peo­ple be­have ex­tra nicely to mi­nor­i­ties, but it’s a per­for­mance that arises out of a sense of obliga­t­ion and that breaks down easily un­der stress, new re­search sug­gests.

The psy­chol­o­gists who over­saw the re­search say that many of us try to be­have a “cor­rect” way around mi­nor­i­ties, but that it might be more help­ful to de­vel­op a gen­u­ine com­fort with them by pur­su­ing life ex­pe­ri­ences that im­prove our out­look to­ward stig­mat­ized groups.

The work by Wendy Ber­ry Mendes and Ka­tri­na Koslov of the Uni­vers­ity of Cal­i­for­nia, San Fran­cis­co, sug­gests many white peo­ple act ex­tra friendly to­ward mi­nor­i­ties be­cause they feel pres­sure to over­cor­rect for their own prej­u­dices.

The scientists’ re­port, en­ti­tled “Brit­tle Smiles: Pos­i­tive Bi­ases To­ward Stig­ma­tized and Out­group Tar­gets,” is pub­lished in the Aug. 13 early on­line is­sue of the Jour­nal of Ex­pe­ri­men­tal Psy­chol­o­gy, Gen­er­al.

The re­search­ers an­a­lyzed the ac­tions of white peo­ple who were paired to­geth­er in var­i­ous interac­tions with oth­er whites, blacks, as well as peo­ple who had a large, realistic-looking, painted-on birth­mark. The par­ti­ci­pants weren’t told the real pur­poses of the stud­ies and were in­stead told they would be eval­u­at­ed for things such as “phys­i­o­log­ical re­sponses dur­ing lab­o­r­a­to­ry tasks.”

“In our daily lives, we of­ten have to cen­sor our pub­lic face by mon­i­tor­ing our be­hav­iors, ex­pres­sions, and words,” the re­search­ers wrote. As part of this, they added, there is a fre­quent ten­den­cy for peo­ple to “ex­ag­ger­ate their pos­i­tive be­hav­iors to­wards and pref­er­ences for stig­ma­tized and out­group mem­bers.”

But “these cor­rec­tion strate­gies, be­cause they are ef­fort­ful and re­quire re­sources, can be dis­rupted with stress or cog­ni­tive load.”

In one ex­pe­ri­ment, the re­search­ers found that whites paired with blacks in a lab­o­r­a­to­ry in­ter­ac­tion smiled more of­ten and used more pos­i­tive words than they did with other whites. In anoth­er ex­pe­ri­ment, white peo­ple who had scored more poorly on a test de­signed to re­veal un­con­scious ra­cial bi­ases ac­tu­ally eval­u­at­ed a group of fic­tion­al re­sumes more fa­vorably if they had stereo­typic­ally black names than if they had stereo­typic­ally white names. But this ten­den­cy broke down if this proj­ect was paired with anoth­er task de­signed to be stress­ful and dif­fi­cult.

Sev­er­al oth­er tests gave re­sults along si­m­i­lar lines.

“Over-cor­rec­tion… re­quires self-regulato­ry ef­fort and is based on the goal of ap­pear­ing un­prej­u­diced,” the re­search­ers wrote.

“Taken to­geth­er, these stud­ies ex­pose the some­times frag­ile na­ture of ex­plic­it race pref­er­ences, and that these cor­rec­tive pro­cesses may dis­ap­pear when [men­tal] re­sources are ex­haust­ed,” they added. “Pop­u­lar cul­ture is re­plete with ex­am­ples of fail­ures of self-con­trol lead­ing to ex­po­sures of ra­cial bias.”

“If over-cor­rec­tion is borne of a de­sire to ap­pear un­prej­u­diced, then it may be a weak strat­e­gy for achiev­ing that goal, only use­ful when an in­di­vid­ual has suf­fi­cient self-regulato­ry re­sources,” they sug­gested. “Pur­su­ing life ex­pe­ri­ences that could re­lieve anx­i­e­ty around mi­nor­ity group mem­bers or change un­der­ly­ing at­ti­tudes to­wards them is likely to be a more re­sil­ient and per­ma­nent way to achieve a goal of egal­i­tar­ian be­hav­ior.”

For those who are of the OP persuasion, the above would not be an issue. But for those within the system who are ensouled, it is an issue. It is an act that is difficult to carry off consistently, as it goes against their inherent tendency to see people as people, not as colors, or, necessarily as Other. But, to see others as people like you, you - as a collective member of the GWSS target population - are going against your own social programming, which puts you at loggerheads with family, friends and society. Individuals who want to smile at others not like them, knowing that society says that they are different, are lesser, creates mental and emotional tension which causes them to over-emphasize friendliness, which foments energetic siphoning by the collective Foreign Installation. As you noted, racism serves the GWSS but even moreso, it serves the Archonic system of energy-feeding. It creates a pervasive field of energy in countries, states and individuals, perhaps releasing certain flavors of energy that are on their gourmet menu. Yum.

[Curt]

It also seems that it is easier for the Flyers to occupy a person who is an OP than it is for them to occupy a person who is a nominal OP but who also has the capacity to fully manifest the psychic gifts of the ensouled.

I recognize the milieu and the difficulties in categorization especially in light of the consideration that the flyer's mind reinforces these differentiation for its own gain. That gain is personally favorable, in that the white or black person that complies with the hierarchical directives of racism "succeeds" within the system. The flyer's mind gains, the individual gains. For those who like to think of themselves as not being complicit in institutionalized racism, a short examination of personal trajectory through social space during a lifetime can reveal successes based more upon compliance and inclusion within the systemic parameters than any personal traits.

By rejecting racism, personal prejudice, and working to remove all benefits gained from living and working within the system of such, we gain freedom. By making choices that conform to higher directives we banish the flyer's mind. This must be true for either souled or nonsouled. The difficulty in doing so for both groups is perhaps different, but the end result is freedom.

What you've mentioned here (together with what you've written elsewhere about Organic Portals) reminds me of the film, Fallen (1998). I watched it the other day after you had mentioned it, I believe, in another thread.

In the film, select people were able to resist/avoid being occupied by the archontic entity/demon simply based on who they were. They were vulnerable to attack in other ways, and could be taken over under certain conditions, but they could not be taken over so easily as the general population.

But, in the film, the vast majority of people could be totally possessed/occupied (like organic portals) quite easily. These folks were the ones whom, in the Matrix, would have been taken over by Agent Smith with zero resistance.

In both films, some essential integrity seemed to be the difference between being possessed and not being possessed.

To put it into the context of the conversation in this thread: is the sole source of this integrity the soul?

Or is having a soul merely a necessary pre-condition for achieving integrity by then taking the intentional action(s) of casting off the flyer’s mind/their mind?

In a very abstract way, my question is another version of the question, Is it by Good Works, or Through Faith Alone that one achieves salvation.

Is it enough to simply be blessed with a soul, or does one have to be blessed and then (only if they're lucky enough to have been blessed) do the work to escape Their Mind?

[Chester]

It also seems that it is easier for the Flyers to occupy a person who is an OP than it is for them to occupy a person who is a nominal OP but who also has the capacity to fully manifest the psychic gifts of the ensouled.

I recognize the milieu and the difficulties in categorization especially in light of the consideration that the flyer's mind reinforces these differentiation for its own gain. That gain is personally favorable, in that the white or black person that complies with the hierarchical directives of racism "succeeds" within the system. The flyer's mind gains, the individual gains. For those who like to think of themselves as not being complicit in institutionalized racism, a short examination of personal trajectory through social space during a lifetime can reveal successes based more upon compliance and inclusion within the systemic parameters than any personal traits.

By rejecting racism, personal prejudice, and working to remove all benefits gained from living and working within the system of such, we gain freedom. By making choices that conform to higher directives we banish the flyer's mind. This must be true for either souled or nonsouled. The difficulty in doing so for both groups is perhaps different, but the end result is freedom.

What you've mentioned here (together with what you've written elsewhere about Organic Portals) reminds me of the film, Fallen (1998). I watched it the other day after you had mentioned it, I believe, in another thread.

In the film, select people were able to resist/avoid being occupied by the archontic entity/demon simply based on who they were. They were vulnerable to attack in other ways, and could be taken over under certain conditions, but they could not be taken over so easily as the general population.

But, in the film, the vast majority of people could be totally possessed/occupied (like organic portals) quite easily. These folks were the ones whom, in the Matrix, would have been taken over by Agent Smith with zero resistance.

In both films, some essential integrity seemed to be the difference between being possessed and not being possessed.

To put it into the context of the conversation in this thread: is the sole source of this integrity the soul?

Or is having a soul merely a necessary pre-condition for achieving integrity by then taking the intentional action(s) of casting off the flyer’s mind/their mind?

In a very abstract way, my question is another version of the question, Is it by Good Works, or Through Faith Alone that one achieves salvation.

Is it enough to simply be blessed with a soul, or does one have to be blessed and then (only if they're lucky enough to have been blessed) do the work to escape their mind?

I can only speak for myself. I achieved this required level of integrity through a process called trial and error and through intense desire.

I see no "soul" (a concept only) as playing any role unless you equate "soul" with what I call "one's inner essence."

That inner essence is the essence that is encompassed by the energy of love which, to me is God's most important energy and is infinite.

I believe this energy is freely available to all and is accessible by anyone if they earnestly seek it be they labeled by others as psychopaths, sociopaths or any other path, even this specific "blabberpath"... justoneman.

Be ready to forgive yourself along the way as sometimes you discover after the fact that your actions along the have "hurt" others.

You have to decide which is more important... achieving the necessary self transformation where your will aligns harmoniously with the Will of God or anything else.

Nothing else has been more important to me.

[Chester]

Here's a secret - the only difference between the Matrix and the Kingdom of God is that within the Matrix, there is a lack of love which as a result, has been filled with evil.

When one calls forth the energy of love, evil vanishes as there's no room for it anymore.

Everything else remains exactly the same yet is completely different.

[TargeT]

The black audience saw it as redemptive, the white audience saw it as a warning. Farrakhan believes the movie was designed to continue to foment difference and could possible lend fuel to any potential racial flareups that might occur in the near-future.

I can see the "redemptive" take, (due to social programming)... but a "warning"?

This to me is more of the "crap" that is keeping us divided, how was this movie a warning? who was it a warning too? is slavery (other than that forced on us by the government) still practiced here that I don't know about it? if so then it's a warning to them.. Farrakhan is speaking from a point of view that clearly states he thinks a lot in an "us vs them" mentality.

I just don't see it that way at all, & think that analysis is a part of the problem.



In regards to you personally, I would not say that you are naive. From your position within the system, it is not necessary for your survival that you see the system at this particular level. You have no reason to, as you, by your biological origin, are not Other to the system. You are the fodder the system seeks to incorporate, to mine for your energetic resources. And so, you have not cultivated the "lens of perception" that Others must that is particularly honed to such things, as they can be the difference between life and death in extreme cases, between getting a job or not in other cases, between having a good day and having that day ruined by someone else's fear and projection in still others.

Well in a lot of respects I will soon have exposure to (as close as I can get as a white male, I imagine) the "other side of the coin" I will be a member of a small minority in the Virgin islands (black 76.2% white 13.1% Asian 1.1% other 6.1% mixed 3.5% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States_Virgin_Islands) so maybe this will help with my understanding a bit.

I will honestly say that I think (and this is very likely due to a lot of what you describe & my lack of experience) the point of view you are presenting is exaggerated, true, but not as bad as some people would lead me to believe.. (thus the naive comment I made). And while I am hesitant to say that I see in that hesitation a bit of what you describe. For example I do not say the word "n****r" ever, being overly sensitive to everything that surrounds that word and it's use (something I also have been trying to break myself of; at least the almost fear-based avoidance (though I'd call it more of an attempt to be courteous, but it is fear based I think) of that term/word). So clearly there is some inherent sensitivity to "race relations" that I've never really explored (it just doesn't come up, being military perhaps has dulled it a bit, as we accept everyone evenly (or so it seems to me).

Complex topic, not one I've explored much.



All energetic harvesting techniques that are now "automatic" within the system. But, for many within the system, like yourself, it is not easy to comply with these almost unconscious directives. This article perhaps gives a sense of the depth of the issue:


Friendliness to minorities often a performance—a fragile one, research suggests (http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/120815_overcorrection.htm)

Aug. 18, 2012
Special to World Science

Many white peo­ple be­have ex­tra nicely to mi­nor­i­ties, but it’s a per­for­mance that arises out of a sense of obliga­t­ion and that breaks down easily un­der stress, new re­search sug­gests.

The psy­chol­o­gists who over­saw the re­search say that many of us try to be­have a “cor­rect” way around mi­nor­i­ties, but that it might be more help­ful to de­vel­op a gen­u­ine com­fort with them by pur­su­ing life ex­pe­ri­ences that im­prove our out­look to­ward stig­mat­ized groups.

The work by Wendy Ber­ry Mendes and Ka­tri­na Koslov of the Uni­vers­ity of Cal­i­for­nia, San Fran­cis­co, sug­gests many white peo­ple act ex­tra friendly to­ward mi­nor­i­ties be­cause they feel pres­sure to over­cor­rect for their own prej­u­dices.

The scientists’ re­port, en­ti­tled “Brit­tle Smiles: Pos­i­tive Bi­ases To­ward Stig­ma­tized and Out­group Tar­gets,” is pub­lished in the Aug. 13 early on­line is­sue of the Jour­nal of Ex­pe­ri­men­tal Psy­chol­o­gy, Gen­er­al.

The re­search­ers an­a­lyzed the ac­tions of white peo­ple who were paired to­geth­er in var­i­ous interac­tions with oth­er whites, blacks, as well as peo­ple who had a large, realistic-looking, painted-on birth­mark. The par­ti­ci­pants weren’t told the real pur­poses of the stud­ies and were in­stead told they would be eval­u­at­ed for things such as “phys­i­o­log­ical re­sponses dur­ing lab­o­r­a­to­ry tasks.”

“In our daily lives, we of­ten have to cen­sor our pub­lic face by mon­i­tor­ing our be­hav­iors, ex­pres­sions, and words,” the re­search­ers wrote. As part of this, they added, there is a fre­quent ten­den­cy for peo­ple to “ex­ag­ger­ate their pos­i­tive be­hav­iors to­wards and pref­er­ences for stig­ma­tized and out­group mem­bers.”

But “these cor­rec­tion strate­gies, be­cause they are ef­fort­ful and re­quire re­sources, can be dis­rupted with stress or cog­ni­tive load.”

In one ex­pe­ri­ment, the re­search­ers found that whites paired with blacks in a lab­o­r­a­to­ry in­ter­ac­tion smiled more of­ten and used more pos­i­tive words than they did with other whites. In anoth­er ex­pe­ri­ment, white peo­ple who had scored more poorly on a test de­signed to re­veal un­con­scious ra­cial bi­ases ac­tu­ally eval­u­at­ed a group of fic­tion­al re­sumes more fa­vorably if they had stereo­typic­ally black names than if they had stereo­typic­ally white names. But this ten­den­cy broke down if this proj­ect was paired with anoth­er task de­signed to be stress­ful and dif­fi­cult.

Sev­er­al oth­er tests gave re­sults along si­m­i­lar lines.

“Over-cor­rec­tion… re­quires self-regulato­ry ef­fort and is based on the goal of ap­pear­ing un­prej­u­diced,” the re­search­ers wrote.

“Taken to­geth­er, these stud­ies ex­pose the some­times frag­ile na­ture of ex­plic­it race pref­er­ences, and that these cor­rec­tive pro­cesses may dis­ap­pear when [men­tal] re­sources are ex­haust­ed,” they added. “Pop­u­lar cul­ture is re­plete with ex­am­ples of fail­ures of self-con­trol lead­ing to ex­po­sures of ra­cial bias.”

“If over-cor­rec­tion is borne of a de­sire to ap­pear un­prej­u­diced, then it may be a weak strat­e­gy for achiev­ing that goal, only use­ful when an in­di­vid­ual has suf­fi­cient self-regulato­ry re­sources,” they sug­gested. “Pur­su­ing life ex­pe­ri­ences that could re­lieve anx­i­e­ty around mi­nor­ity group mem­bers or change un­der­ly­ing at­ti­tudes to­wards them is likely to be a more re­sil­ient and per­ma­nent way to achieve a goal of egal­i­tar­ian be­hav­ior.”

I can see that as being very viable (over correction, however NOT as a cover for prejudice, simply because the topic has been made so sensitive that overcorrection seems the only approach), I do not see it(latent prejudice) in myself nor anyone I associate with (again, primarily military or those involved with the military.. we treat racial stereotypes as easy jokes & they go both directions equally from my perspective, I've never seen hate or discontent related to race in this professional setting, though I did see it in highschool & just thought it as sad / odd) act in any prejudice way, even in highly stressful situations... I've been a lot of places and worked with a lot of people (of varring races) and I just do not see true prejudice with a few rare exceptions, I DO see over-acting over-correction and I think it is exactly due to the emphasis on "race relations" or "racial tension" that is force fed to us all the time.

I was in the very beginning of the "Tea Party" movement, I attended rallies, I set up political groups, I went to weekly meetings for years... I N E V E R saw race as an issue E V E R.. it was purely political polarization and yet I saw constantly in media that the "tea party" being against big federal government some how had something to do with the current figure head's race.

This example is how I equate almost all racism that I hear about, I just do not see it. (I understand my limitations and that I am very likely missing a lot from my perspective) unless I listen to mainstream media or people who have built a career on it (Farrakhan for example).





For those who are of the OP persuasion, the above would not be an issue. But for those within the system who are ensouled, it is an issue. It is an act that is difficult to carry off consistently, as it goes against their inherent tendency to see people as people, not as colors, or, necessarily as Other. But, to see others as people like you, you - as a collective member of the GWSS target population - are going against your own social programming, which puts you at loggerheads with family, friends and society. Individuals who want to smile at others not like them, knowing that society says that they are different, are lesser, creates mental and emotional tension which causes them to over-emphasize friendliness, which foments energetic siphoning by the collective Foreign Installation. As you noted, racism serves the GWSS but even moreso, it serves the Archonic system of energy-feeding. It creates a pervasive field of energy in countries, states and individuals, perhaps releasing certain flavors of energy that are on their gourmet menu. Yum.

again, I do not see what you are saying, I have seen (in myself and what I assume is going on in others) smiles that are forced due to over sensitivity and some sense that it's required. but NOT to cover hatred or prejudice, just simply due to social pressures.

I don't know if this was directed at me or just "people like me" or what, but I don't know what social programming you speak of, the only social programming I have seen is that other races expect me to be prejudice so I have to some how go out of my way to show that it's not true & apparently from what you are saying this is seen as covering up for being prejudice.

[9eagle9]

If a case of evidence can be made for walk ins, I don't see why a soul-less body couldn't be inhabited by a soul.

Maybe as this becomes a bit more well known and we can keep 'their' mind out of it more about the phenom of walks-in will convey something of that nature.



If only we could see the soul with some sort of technology...

I wonder if it's even possible that a soul might leave a body at one stage ('give up the ghost'), whilst the body itself carries on living mechanically?
Sleep walking through life...Or inversely, maybe a soul-less body can suddenly become inhabited by a soul?

[AwakeInADream]

I'm out of my depth intellectually here, but....

Isn't this over-emphasized friendliness just a kind of guilt? Perhaps an unnecessary guilt brought on by the 'felt' need to apologize on behalf the race one identifies with?

Is guilt perhaps one of the most harmful and sneaky emotions there is?

Maybe guilt about an emotion leads to repression causing explosion, aiding the leakage and collection of the loosh by outside entities? As Rahkyt said, Yum!

[TargeT]

I'm out of my depth intellectually here, but....

Isn't this over-emphasized friendliness just a kind of guilt? Perhaps an unnecessary guilt brought on by the 'felt' need to apologize on behalf the race one identifies with?

Is guilt perhaps one of the most harmful and sneaky emotions there is?

Maybe guilt about an emotion leads to repression causing explosion, aiding the leakage and collection of the loosh by outside entities? As Rahkyt said, Yum!

Yes, that's good expansion on it.. and this guilt that (at least by me) seems based on nothing I nor anyone I know did or do, can lead to feelings of resentment, another nasty emotion. I'm sure this is just another example of the gambit of energetic production we seem encouraged to do mixed with continued confusion to keep us from seeing the source / reason of / for it.


& don't worry about intellectual depth, I feel exactly the same way :blink:; especially on these new topics (if that helps any).

[9eagle9]

Real love yes. Not the fake flower child new age love and light let's wave a feather duster at it and it will go away love.

I do agree the Matrix highlights if not out right states what real love is all about.

Real love has enormous courage, enormous resource, it can create circumstances that help one to dodge bullets. It shows people fighting for strangers and other humans who they will never even meet to have an opportunity to love in more superficial ways.
Call it 'de-tached' love but its still pretty fierce. You notice in the Matrix people aren't sitting around discussing their 'feelings' and having group therapy lessons, and whining that someone doesn't show them 'love'.



Here's a secret - the only difference between the Matrix and the Kingdom of God is that within the Matrix, there is a lack of love which as a result, has been filled with evil.

When one calls forth the energy of love, evil vanishes as there's no room for it anymore.

Everything else remains exactly the same yet is completely different.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Yes is a core collective wound that human's share. It also relates to religious programming or rather religious programming wired itself in to it. I think the wound that caused it may have started back in our ancient lost history, like around the time of Atlantis.

There's a sort of clear guilt one has when they no they are wrong or know they caused something that will prompt someone to make amends.

Then there's that deep rooted shadowy guilt that you are speaking of that causes people to react in the way that you just described.


I'm out of my depth intellectually here, but....

Isn't this over-emphasized friendliness just a kind of guilt? Perhaps an unnecessary guilt brought on by the 'felt' need to apologize on behalf the race one identifies with?

Is guilt perhaps one of the most harmful and sneaky emotions there is?

Maybe guilt about an emotion leads to repression causing explosion, aiding the leakage and collection of the loosh by outside entities? As Rahkyt said, Yum!

[9eagle9]

Well thank you god, that the two of you feel over your head intellectually rather than being in a emotionally reactive state about it.

That's GOOD NEWS!

Emotional reactiveness to talking about this sort of thing is a sure sign the 'their' mind is at work, attacking so you (or anyone else) don't look at it or yourself very hard. It has to have a SAFE environment to work. It can't do its job when in it's in a panic.

Intellectually yes its a lot to wrap one's head around . I only know marginally more than anyone else here in this thread. I'm just jotting down observations.

When I go into Vivek's thread I feel the same way, over my head because my own intellect is not real good with silocon base protea nodules that insinate themselves into the core radia of the nucleiotidic genome" (lol) but I still go there because...its all part of the same thing. That is why we need all kinds of people able to understand this in the physical and non physical level.

The bolded part I made up but that's what it looks like to me when I try to read the chemical parts of this mess.




I'm out of my depth intellectually here, but....

Isn't this over-emphasized friendliness just a kind of guilt? Perhaps an unnecessary guilt brought on by the 'felt' need to apologize on behalf the race one identifies with?

Is guilt perhaps one of the most harmful and sneaky emotions there is?

Maybe guilt about an emotion leads to repression causing explosion, aiding the leakage and collection of the loosh by outside entities? As Rahkyt said, Yum!

Yes, that's good expansion on it.. and this guilt that (at least by me) seems based on nothing I nor anyone I know did or do, can lead to feelings of resentment, another nasty emotion. I'm sure this is just another example of the gambit of energetic production we seem encouraged to do mixed with continued confusion to keep us from seeing the source / reason of / for it.


& don't worry about intellectual depth, I feel exactly the same way :blink:; especially on these new topics (if that helps any).

[Gekko]

I'm out of my depth intellectually here, but....

Isn't this over-emphasized friendliness just a kind of guilt? Perhaps an unnecessary guilt brought on by the 'felt' need to apologize on behalf the race one identifies with?

Is guilt perhaps one of the most harmful and sneaky emotions there is?

Maybe guilt about an emotion leads to repression causing explosion, aiding the leakage and collection of the loosh by outside entities? As Rahkyt said, Yum!


I think perhaps you are speaking of shame, rather than guilt, at least in my conception of the words. Guilt says, "What I did was bad or unacceptable." Shame says, "I am bad or unacceptable."

[9eagle9]

That's perfect.



I'm out of my depth intellectually here, but....

Isn't this over-emphasized friendliness just a kind of guilt? Perhaps an unnecessary guilt brought on by the 'felt' need to apologize on behalf the race one identifies with?

Is guilt perhaps one of the most harmful and sneaky emotions there is?

Maybe guilt about an emotion leads to repression causing explosion, aiding the leakage and collection of the loosh by outside entities? As Rahkyt said, Yum!


I think perhaps you are speaking of shame, rather than guilt, at least in my conception of the words. Guilt says, "What I did was bad or unacceptable." Shame says, "I am bad or unacceptable."

[another bob]

That's perfect.



I'm out of my depth intellectually here, but....

Isn't this over-emphasized friendliness just a kind of guilt? Perhaps an unnecessary guilt brought on by the 'felt' need to apologize on behalf the race one identifies with?

Is guilt perhaps one of the most harmful and sneaky emotions there is?

Maybe guilt about an emotion leads to repression causing explosion, aiding the leakage and collection of the loosh by outside entities? As Rahkyt said, Yum!


I think perhaps you are speaking of shame, rather than guilt, at least in my conception of the words. Guilt says, "What I did was bad or unacceptable." Shame says, "I am bad or unacceptable."

It's funny how early that gets started too. Today our 14 mo. old grand daughter Ryder was playing with our Lab Amos, and at one point smacked him in the face. We said, "Poor Amos!" and Ryder, who felt implicated by the tribe, and in a fit of self-conscious shame and embarassment, burst out in tears and flung her head into her mom's chest.

[AwakeInADream]

Yes! Guilt can be positive, for without it how could we learn! So yes, shame may be the right word.:o (lol at my choice of smiley)

Shame doesn't have any 'up-sides', does it?

Shame try's to convince you that 'you'll never change'.

[another bob]

Yes! Guilt can be positive, for without it how could we learn! So yes, shame may be the right word.:o (lol at my choice of smiley)

Shame doesn't have any 'up-sides', does it?

Shame try's to convince you that 'you'll never change'.


Shame says you're not worthy -- it's the flip side of pride.

[PurpleLama]

I'm just plain ol' bad, unshamefully so.

My perspective, to my self, shows guilt and shame being equally useless.

Guilt isn't the same as conscience.

[another bob]

What's interesting is that both shame and (arrogant) pride are associated with a physical act of chest-beating. One is in the form of "mea culpa", and the other in the form of "I am the king of the world!". If anything, the act of pointing to one's chest represents a form of direct self-confirmation, asserting the reality of "my" existence, "my" self-image.

[AwakeInADream]

I'm just plain ol' bad, unshamefully so.

My perspective, to my self, shows guilt and shame being equally useless.

Guilt isn't the same as conscience.

Guilt, shame, regret, all useless...Lets go from ol'bad to ol'blue eye's:

8m0dJXtwwiY

[9eagle9]

Prideful Arrogant Woman have to slap their thighs.

I'm sure you understand why.

That's why women hate their thighs. ;)

Arrogance is a weird thing. It's accepted in a weird way in men. Maybe not found favorable but there's some weird covert acceptance of it. In George Bush's case it was venerated and he was really too stupid behaving to be truly arrogant. Or rather he was arrogant over stupid ****.

In woman, pride (real or fake) is a big no no socially still. It's an underlying program. One cannot tell the authentic pride from the fake vain pride. Real pride meaning you feel good over your accomplishments. Not the arrogant kind that is based on nothing really but one's imaginations of themselves and puffed up vanity that is easily threatened because its there to mask insecurity. In women this is just a loathesome trait the authentic and the fake, mostly because the two can't be separated by the dim eyes of the beholder.

Very peculiar .

I watch animals engage in pride. Trys has got some good ones over on me the last few days and he is just full of himself, prancing around the yard shaking his head and mane, and that big thoroughbred ass all over. Ha ha, you thought you'd pen me up but I jumped over you! I watched him make this cunning maneuver where he's staring at this fence I made, and coaxed him into with a bucket of grain. It was nothing more than a psychological barrier, some hot wire with no 'hot' in it. A non electrified electrical fence. He examined it up and down, backed up and then leaped between the bars sliding through it like water over a fall.

Then ....He's like a QB in the endzone after he's made a touchdown.

This is really naughty spoiled behavior in a 1200 pound animal ...it may even verge on dangerous. But in spite of it all I and my daughter stand there and swell up with pride....lol.


What's interesting is that both shame and (arrogant) pride are associated with a physical act of chest-beating. One is in the form of "mea culpa", and the other in the form of "I am the king of the world!". If anything, the act of pointing to one's chest represents a form of direct self-confirmation, asserting the reality of "my" existence, "my" self-image.

[TargeT]

shame is quite often the ultimate tribal punishment, a very old very powerful program, if you can trigger it.

Shame is a much better fit for what I was trying to work on describing above, even better clarification.

My parents used Shame *EDIT* Shame was unfair to my parents, they used "consideration" on me, forced me to look at things from a less self centered angle on me (not abusively, IMO) to correct me as a child, I was never struck; simply talked to... and HOW I DREADED those talks!



It's funny how early that gets started too. Today our 14 mo. old grand daughter Ryder was playing with our Lab Amos, and at one point smacked him in the face. We said, "Poor Amos!" and Ryder, who felt implicated by the tribe, and in a fit of self-conscious shame and embarassment, burst out in tears and flung her head into her mom's chest.

My 5 year old breaks out with "I'm a bad kid" every once in a while usually after a display of uncontrolled emotion (wild at this age, due to a short period with her father who we have decided is too abusive for any type of long term relationship), it's an interesting fall back & we have to "talk her down" out of that mentality & try to restore self confidence etc..

[Hervé]

You know what?!

I used to be very racist...

... I couldn't stand idiots, imbeciles, morons, sheeples, PJ people... whatever their creeds, color, ethnicity or gender...


... until I came to understand why those people were that way...













... overwhelmed by that "their"/R6 mind!


That is, in total apathy about pretty much everything.


See this video in order to get an idea of what overwhelms and ensuing apathy do to people:


jMWVUoYNezU


To compound the matter, people in apathy/overwhelm are under a constant hypnotic trance and therefore everything equals everything in their mind... and a guru/leader/"Hitler" has no hindrance of convincing them of anything.

[9eagle9]

This is why I find this so distressing. That is a constant state of existence for a goodish portion of the Population.

A recently inhabited hot topic thread may come to mind. You know people may think that is just having some triggers pulled. But people who go for that emotionally active must fan drama route live in that state all the time. ALL time. Then something happens where they get the loosh trigger pulled or the feel safe to start looshing others themselves. The less you react to it, the angerier they get.

...but otherwise they live in that state of simmering apathy/fear ALL the time. It corrodes and eats away the best remaining parts of them. Toxic body. What is good and whole and integrated becomes toxic. You are dying the whole time you are trying to exist. You aren't living because that has nothing to do with life.

It's not apparent when the their mind is being fed in other ways. But it becomes apparent when the food source is threatened, and that constant state of apathy/fear/same erupts.

That is what I find most distressing of all about this. The quality of life that people don't have.

[Mark]

In a very abstract way, my question is another version of the question, Is it by Good Works, or Through Faith Alone that one achieves salvation.

Is it enough to simply be blessed with a soul, or does one have to be blessed and then (only if they're lucky enough to have been blessed) do the work to escape Their Mind?

Hi, Curtis, thanks for this thought-provoking idea. I had forgotten that part of Fallen, it has been so long since I've seen it, but you're right, it is relevant and another msm clue pertaining to the real state of affairs, beneath the illusion.

I think doing the work to escape is paramount. We have numerous ways in which the work can be done, the most familiar, the Toltec and Enlightenment methods, stilling the mind and ending discursiveness, the Gnostic method, call-and-response direct engagement with the Archons and tantric orgiastic pratices which strengthen the body and soul through kundalini arousal and the rebuilding of the "glowing coat of awareness" or aura/bioenergetic field.

OPs supposedly do not have higher chakra capacities, according to those who have defined this mode of being. That means they are limited to utilizing only the chakras below the heart-center. But that does also mean they have access to black tantric (orgiastic) sexual practices and can use those in order to build up their fields. This is well in line with what we know about elite dark practices, how they use sex and blood primarily in order to gain access to power and consolidate their rulership.

The souled, on the other hand, have access to the higher chakra centers and can employ white tantric (non-orgastic) methods to raise kundalini if they choose. They can also choose the route of meditative practices that cultivate the higher energy centers, slowly but surely purifying their consciousnesses through kensho/satori experiences until they reach the point where discursiveness has been stopped and the energetic equalization of their words and actions reflect their inner state of being.


This to me is more of the "crap" that is keeping us divided, how was this movie a warning? who was it a warning too? is slavery (other than that forced on us by the government) still practiced here that I don't know about it? if so then it's a warning to them.. Farrakhan is speaking from a point of view that clearly states he thinks a lot in an "us vs them" mentality.

I just don't see it that way at all, & think that analysis is a part of the problem.

Hi TargeT, the "warning" was one that is familiar to anyone who knows about far right-wing/nazi/kkk belief systems, which hold, at their core, that the white race is threatened genetically and materially by the darker races. All attempts to control them - blacks, browns, reds and yellows - have had undergirding them seriously genocidal aims - especially black people - as, genetically, melanated genes dominate. Pure expression of such biologically reveals that dominant genes replace recessive genes over generations. And so the fear goes, whites will be genetically wiped out if they continue to mix with melanated people.

The warning of Django, is that, even though the film was a spaghetti western, it was also a blacksploitation movie, a genre that Tarantino is well familiar with. Blacksploitation films were made primarily in the early-mid 1970s and were generally redemptive in nature, where black people got back at 'the Man' in urban and even western fantasies of blood and revenge. On top of all of that, Tarantino based the movie upon a myth beloved by the Nazis.

So the warning is to white folks: beware, the blacks are coming and they're going to kill you all and burn down your houses. No movie in isolation is going to cause blood and mayhem. But as a contribution to a general climate of alertness and fear, as is now occurring through this perceived attack on the 2nd Amendment by a government led by a nominal black man, the movie hurts more than helps. This was Farrakhan's general point, which I find to hold some validity.

All of this raises energy, fear or excitement, both of which are loosh. Automatic systemic releases that are culled, harvested like crops in a field.

Oh, and slavery is still practiced here in the good old US of A:


Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

The good old 13th Amendment. The prison system. Another Archonic cum GWSS success.


Well in a lot of respects I will soon have exposure to (as close as I can get as a white male, I imagine) the "other side of the coin" I will be a member of a small minority in the Virgin islands (black 76.2% white 13.1% Asian 1.1% other 6.1% mixed 3.5% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States_Virgin_Islands) so maybe this will help with my understanding a bit.

Perhaps. I would be interested to see what your observations are, once you arrive and spend some time down there. But, from what I have studied regarding the GWSS and seen for myself, I doubt you will experience any sort of systemic abuse while you are there. Primarily because you are white. Personal prejudice, maybe. But nothing institutionalized or pervasive throughout the culture. The system of supremacy is global. It is everywhere. Even in blackest Africa, the lightest skinned people are shown preference. Well, except for Albinos in Central African countries, who are sometimes killed and dismembered by Shamans for the magical properties of their body parts.


I don't know if this was directed at me or just "people like me" or what, but I don't know what social programming you speak of, the only social programming I have seen is that other races expect me to be prejudice so I have to some how go out of my way to show that it's not true & apparently from what you are saying this is seen as covering up for being prejudice.

I did think about that after I wrote it and hoped you wouldn't take what I had written as some indication that I was making assumptions about you. I was indeed speaking generally, but using your text as an exemplar and guide for the discussion. The key part of my last statement prior to this response above was:


But, to see others as people like you, you - as a collective member of the GWSS target population - are going against your own social programming, which puts you at loggerheads with family, friends and society. Individuals who want to smile at others not like them, knowing that society says that they are different, are lesser, creates mental and emotional tension which causes them to over-emphasize friendliness, which foments energetic siphoning by the collective Foreign Installation.

The takeaway from that was meant to describe the inherent ability of the souled to see people as people not as colors. But, on top of that, due to a lifetime of socialization within the GWSS and Archonic programming system, the default mode is one of assumed superiority by those of lighter skin. This creates a personality paradox - I assume, as I am not within that experience in this lifetime - where one's deepest urges are to hold all people as being equal, and yet, one has been socialized for a lifetime to feel that they are not. So dealing with this paradox, people overemphasize friendliness.

From birth to 19 years of age I was an Air Force brat, raised on bases around the world. From 19 to 23, I was Active Duty army, so I know how it is in regards to racial relations in the military, although, I'm quite sure things have shifted even more in the 20+ years since I've been out of uniform. Legislating against personal racism as done in the military is the closest this society has come to a truly egalitarian reality, and yet there are deeper currents within the structure itself that are inherently Archonic and that have resulted in patterns of institutional racism as well. It is everywhere.

The questions of guilt and shame that have been raised here are valid as well. I would think that both are at issue, the shame may lead some individuals to feel guilt.

But that's a conversation y'all can have amongst yourselves. My personal perspective is a bit different. I will expound upon the other side of the coin, the Other perspective, and its Archonic siphoning features in my next post. Till then, I'll be over here watching in the shadows with PurpleLama.


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=18420&d=1348849573

[Hervé]

...


:sad:

[9eagle9]

Faith based on experience or faith based on belief.

I'd imagine good acts would be something like cleaning out the inner land scape so the 'their' mind can't use it against you. Not feeding the 'their' mind, etc etc.

[TargeT]

Hi TargeT, the "warning" was one that is familiar to anyone who knows about far right-wing/nazi/kkk belief systems, which hold, at their core, that the white race is threatened genetically and materially by the darker races. All attempts to control them have been for genocidal aims, as, genetically, melanated genes dominate. Pure expression of such biologically reveals that dominant genes replace recessive genes over generations, so the fear goes, whites will be genetically wiped out if they continue to mix with melanated people. That is the fear. The warning of Django, is that, even though the film was a spaghetti western, it was also a blacksploitation movie, a genre that Tarantino is well familiar with. Blacksploitation films were made primarily in the early-mid 1970s and were generally redemptive in nature, where black people got back at 'the Man' in urban and even western fantasies of blood and revenge. On top of all of that, Tarantino based the movie upon a myth beloved by the Nazis.

So the warning is to white folks, beware, the blacks are coming and they're going to kill you all and burn down your houses. No movie in isolation is going to cause blood and mayhem. But as a contribution to a general climate of alterness and fear, as is now occurring through this perceived attack on the 2nd Amendment by a government led by a nominal black man, the movie hurts more than helps. This was Farrakhan's general point, which I find to hold some validity.

All of this raises energy, fear or excitement, both of which are loosh. Automatic systemic releases that are culled, harvested like crops in a field.

Ok, that makes sense, but doesn't it sort of infer that "Anglo-Saxons" have mostly recessive genes and the "browner side" have more dominant? is this based on anything or just a baseless fear?

I think my fault was in assuming that this was an all encompassing thing, obviously it will only work on those it works on ( the very reason why there are so many of these types of attacks, gotta find the right trigger for the right people etc..) which is probably also why I personally don't get it, I love hybrids, in the animal world there is a thing referred to as "hybrid vigor" My dogs are "hybrids" (though long established, a mix between Ridgebacks and Mastiff) to an amazing result, I can't see how this would be different with humans.




Well in a lot of respects I will soon have exposure to (as close as I can get as a white male, I imagine) the "other side of the coin" I will be a member of a small minority in the Virgin islands (black 76.2% white 13.1% Asian 1.1% other 6.1% mixed 3.5% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States_Virgin_Islands) so maybe this will help with my understanding a bit.

Perhaps. I would be interested to see what your observations are, once you arrive and spend some time down there. But, from what I have studied regarding the GWSS and seen for myself, I doubt you will experience any sort of systemic abuse while you are there. Primarily because you are white. Personal prejudice, maybe. But nothing institutionalized or pervasive throughout the culture. The system of supremacy is global. It is everywhere. Even in blackest Africa, the lightest skinned people are shown preference. Well, except for Albinos in Central African countries, who are sometimes killed and dismembered by Shamans for the magical properties of their body parts.

From what I hear this isn't exactly the case, a lot of "whites" complain about issues like DWC (Driving while caucasion) and pockets of strong prejudice (probably heavily influenced by the transient tourist traffic, which seems to breed discontent with most local populations that do not directly (or cannot see the ) bennifit from/of.




I don't know if this was directed at me or just "people like me" or what, but I don't know what social programming you speak of, the only social programming I have seen is that other races expect me to be prejudice so I have to some how go out of my way to show that it's not true & apparently from what you are saying this is seen as covering up for being prejudice.

I did think about that after I wrote it and hoped you wouldn't take what I had written as some indication that I was making assumptions about you. I was indeed speaking generally, but using your text as an exemplar and guide for the discussion. The key part of my last statement prior to this response above was:

I wasn't "taking it personally" just trying to see if you were talking based on my situation specifically ;)




But, to see others as people like you, you - as a collective member of the GWSS target population - are going against your own social programming, which puts you at loggerheads with family, friends and society. Individuals who want to smile at others not like them, knowing that society says that they are different, are lesser, creates mental and emotional tension which causes them to over-emphasize friendliness, which foments energetic siphoning by the collective Foreign Installation.

The takeaway from that was meant to describe the inherent ability of the souled to see people as people not as colors. But, on top of that, due to a lifetime of socialization within the GWSS and Archonic programming system, the default mode is one of assumed superiority by those of lighter skin. This creates a personality paradox - I assume, as I am not within that experience in this lifetime - where one's deepest urges are to hold all people as being equal, and yet, one has been socialized for a lifetime to feel that they are not. So dealing with this paradox, people overemphasize friendliness.

From birth to 19 years of age I was an Air Force brat, raised on bases around the world. From 19 to 23, I was Active Duty army, so I know how it is in regards to racial relations in the military, although, I'm quite sure things have shifted even more in the 20+ years since I've been out of uniform. Legislating against personal racism as done in the military is the closest this society has come to a truly egalitarian reality, and yet there are deeper currents within the structure itself that are inherently Archonic and that have resulted in patterns of racism as well. It is everywhere.

I think you'd be very hard pressed to find racism in the military, unless it was against "whites" as promotion for minorities is looked on VERY favorably, and female minorities even more so (perhaps a bit of that over correction you were speaking of, but again, not to cover up prejudice..)

[Gardener]

Ok I don't fully understand your perspective R but I hear ya, it has been somewhat different for my path, I guess being british I wasn't really exposed to it, and to be honest I didn't hear or become aware of racism until i was about 18, and I certainly didn't hear anyone in the family talk about it, I don't know why, it just wasn't on the radar even though we had friends.

From 18 on I would get bent out of shape when the subject came up because I truly couldn't understand what the fuss was about. I did find out eventually and one of the defining moments for me was reading a book by Peter Fryer about the history of the slave trade and the Liverpool docks, how the banks were started to house the money which was changing hands for these slaves which were brought in and who were sold and shipped to America.

However there are other divisive and deeply ingrained social structures ie. the british 'class' system (yea ikr.)

I can see the compensation bit though, or rather over compensation. From my part as an attempt in part to equal the power structure, of what (I now know) is a very real disadvantage, like being female, or lower class, or less educated. No I don't think I have guilt or shame, except maybe that my fellow humans can be the way they are to anyone. So really I am not qualified to comment though I did feel a somewhat deep sigh that here of all places it should matter.