To Shake Them Awake

[Freed Fox]

Hello everyone, it's me again; that guy who only joined a month ago but can't seem to shut up. :rolleyes:

This, however, felt like it was worth bringing up. I am very interested to hear what you all have to say about this.

My question is, when one finds him or herself 'waking up', to what extent should they endeavor to wake up those sleeping around them?

Is it even possible to do so, when the others are in deep and not yet stirring of their own accord?

Would it be a waste of time? Could it do more harm than good? Do we owe it to them, particularly if they are people we love?

When we find this journey to be of universal importance yet paradoxically of a very personal nature. When we recognize that, despite the deeper educational value of our experiences and interactions, our greatest realizations have come from within our deepest moments of introspection and self examination?

I am currently under my father's roof and I have been asking myself this question constantly. He is in his fifties, and has issues with his health. He has suffered two heart attacks in the last decade. Despite there being relatively little tissue damage following these, one does not have to have a medical degree to understand that his life expectancy is not the greatest.

I love him dearly and so I am conflicted. Awareness wants to be shared. Finding a place of inner peace can be of great value. However, this is a man who is still willing to trust the MSM for his news, and is very occupied by the 'real world'. When we get into discussion about current events, politics, what-have-you, I do my best to offer genuine optimism without delving too far into the spiritual or esoteric. Yet I do not feel like it is enough.

On one hand, I could let him live out what years he has left under his accepted paradigm. While it may be a source of stress for him at times, he is at least not seriously depressed and seems to enjoy life (when he is not completely stressed out about something).
On the other, under my own personal beliefs, this is the sort of life which is not worth living. And I believe that if he was not so vested in material reality in some respects he would experience better health, and more genuine happiness.

My outlook and perspective on life are of course ever evolving concepts. At the end of the day, I realize that there are few things in which I hold an unshakable faith. All else is up for inspection and revision. So, if even I am not yet completely satisfied with my internal model of the external, would it then be irresponsible for me to reciprocate these as some sort of higher truths?

Can the message even be heard?

There is a related article which I found today, that I thought I might share. It was written by Gabriel D. Roberts (whom I've never heard of), and addresses the importance of raising our consciousness.

http://www.gabrieldroberts.com/theblog/2012/8/27/consciousness-the-urgent-importance-of-our-willful-transformation

The following excerpt touches closely upon what I mentioned before;


Ignorance is bliss, because if we are not aware of a problem, then it won't keep us up at night. Our consciousness won't allow us to ignore what we see with ever increasing clarity, it won't allow us to stand by the wayside.

So, what are your thoughts about raising consciousness? Both within ourselves and those around us?

Thank you all who read for your time.
All the best

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

It's easy to become manic and frantic when people around you don't seem to care.
The thing to keep in mind is that those people think they care about the right things -- they can be wrong, but they still care very deeply about their own agendas, and don't necessarily want to waste resources on our beliefs or see you waste your time either.

That is how I got treated, like a total crazy person, by family at least. A few members are decent, but most of them have written me off, because I started talking about things they either don't or can't believe, or they are too afraid to believe, or can't help me with, etc.

People tell me (my therapists) that WALKING, READING, MEDITATING, PLAYING are good ways to raise consciousness. The arts are a good haven for likeminded people.
You will find many free spirits both in college and dropping out of college. You may find friends in unusual circumstances -- for example, on the bus you might have a conversation with a foreigner and talk about everything imaginable. In a coffee shop the barista just might surprise you by agreeing with your political beliefs. You friends might wake up and start reading Natural News. You never know.


But reading is one of the best ways to raise your consciousness and elevate ideas at the same time.
Some people believe the memory we leave behind, and how we used our time, is all we get in the end.
the memory we leave behind is our immortality to some people.
that is why and how they live the way they do. and if there is a God he will have mercy I hope,
on the ones who tried as hard as they could, to live as well as they could.

I think setting a good example and being healthy and helping others is how to shine.
You will find so many choices, so many paths, but when you care about other people --
that is when you find the road you were meant to find.

[9eagle9]

It depends if you are waking them up or just directing them to another dream.

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Mustard Seed Carpenters

Here's Dr Bill Deagle's graphic answer. I have to say, I love it.



"Your worst enemy is your unprepared neighbor. You need to distribute these DVDs to your neighbors. Your neighbors may spit in your face now, but when things start to happen they'll be begging you to tell them more.

Remember, you're what I call mustard seed carpenters. You have a carpenter's wedge, a bag of mustard seeds, and a hammer: And in the little cracks of their stupid skull you're gonna drive in these mustard seeds of common sense and when the water of disaster comes upon their heads the seeds are gonna grow whether they want them to or not and the roots are gonna start splitting their very, very thick skulls."

:)

We might not have to be as brutal as Dr Bill seems to be in this colorful quote... but we can all get the point. He also says (and Steve Quayle agrees) that in any preparedness plans you make, make sure you include everyone around you. For example, not just gathering food and emergency supplies for yourself, but for everyone you love.

I do think these contingencies will prove necessary for many: we just don't know when. I'd not be surprised if things start to unwind this Spring. The immediate problem is not natural disasters (though something along those lines may be 'encouraged') -- but martial law, or something very much like it, in at least some parts of the US. The worst case scenario is rather more grim and would involve the entire country coming apart (which some insiders definitely want to see).

We are into difficult and challenging times now, and you're right to be concerned about those you love. Plant seeds, don't get into arguments, don't get polarized, realize that others are frightened and do not want to look at these (and other) issues, and quietly get ready for anything and be prepared to look after others along the way.

[enfoldedblue]

Hi Fox,
I have been 'awake' for more than 20 years (I put in brackets because I have found that there are are many levels of awakening...and I know I am still not fully awake...for me it is definitely a process and not an event). In the beginning I wanted to run through the streets telling everybody about the deeper 'more true' aspects of life i had discovered. I actually expected everyone to be as intrigued and amazed as I was...lol. I really was genuinely surprized when I found that most people were not interested in the least, and some even seemed to resent what I had to say.

In my experience someone has to be open and ready to take the first step, and until that point there is nothing we can say or do that will make any real difference. I am not really sure exactly what happens...but it is like the more we awaken, the higher our frequency becomes and the more access we have to the wider reality...but when we try and describe our higher frequency experiences to others on a lower frequency...it enters their brain as an annoying bla bla bla bla.... lol. Ultimately I have found that the best thing to do is to live my life according to the deeper truths that I have discovered, and be available to those who lift their eyes from the limited view of the blinders.

Maybe others have had more success :)

[T Smith]

I wish I had something productive to add, but unfortunately, you raise many of the questions I contemplate daily without resolution. I do know there are many issues on which I need to tread lightly when interacting with those who have not (yet?) "awakened". There are surely degrees of awareness, and perhaps I appear asleep to others, so I feel uncomfortable and even presumptuous discussing in absolutes like "awake" and "asleep", but I do know exactly what you are experiencing. If you have a loved one who is suffering, or whose health and life is affected or threatened because of it, it can be a very painful and paralyzing position to be in.

Good thread. Look forward to learning how others deal with these issues.

[mosquito]

....My outlook and perspective on life are of course ever evolving concepts. ....

As indeed are your father's ! :wizard:

The last sentence in Bill's post I think is pertinent too, rather than trying to wake anyone up (if that's possible) the wisest course of action is to plant the seeds and water them, allow the metaphorical sunshine of the other person's life to make them grow.

[ceetee9]

You have remarkable insight and ask some very important questions for such a young person Freed Fox. I wish I had some answers for you, but I believe the answers you seek are ones only you can answer by searching your heart and soul.

I will say, however, that the point of discussing anything with anyone is to share thoughts and ideas to learn and grow--preferably for all involved. I think having an unshakable faith in few, if any, things is the hallmark of a healthy, open and caring mind. People who realize they know little to nothing, are people who can continue to learn and grow. People who close their minds and deny, or refuse to consider, new information simply because they "already know the truth" (code phrase for it doesn't fit in with their world view) are the ones who don't live in the real world, IMO.

I was lucky to have a very intelligent and open minded father. He too had health issues and came close to dying several times, but we had many good and stimulating discussions about life and the world before he finally did pass. I cherish those conversations and the things he taught me, but I'm not recommending you do the same with your father. I'm merely sharing my experience with mine for what it's worth.

Good luck to you.

[Youniverse]

Yes a great question FreedFox! I see no harm in 'attempting to awaken' as many people as you like. If they are ready or receptive to it you will know pretty quickly. If they are not, they will dismiss what you are saying as hogwash and continue in the reality they feel most comfortable with. I too am very hesitant to use the term awake in reference to myself, but I must say that one of the real catalysts for my 'waking up' was that I was no longer comfortable(to put it very midly) with the reality I was experiencing. It may be said that awakened people have an obligation to try to awaken as many others as possible, though in truth, we are not obligated to do anything except BE.

[Tesseract]

Some years ago my late father told me a story about his own father, who had an accident and broke his neck. While lying on the ground he went out of body, and could read the number plate of the ambulance and so on...

Prior to hearing this story, while I had numerous esoteric interests and while I did not disbelieve the out of body phenomenon - I had no reason to think I would ever know whether it was real or simply the product of a deluded/dreaming mind. As such, I mostly left the whole out of body question alone - and I believe that the unintended consequence of this was to make myself non receptive to the out of body condition. Having heard the story from a close relative, in a way, unlocked the possibility - or helped to awaken me, to use the vocabulary of this forum :).

So, without any attempt at proselytisation, another individual was able to benefit another.

[Hip Hipnotist]

Hello, FF.

I'll cut to the chase:

From what I gather I strongly believe that anyone still in 'denial' has missed the 'truth boat'. It takes quite a while ( looong time for me ) once that inner voice says, "Hey dude, things ain't as they appear" to actually realize, through research, that "Things ain't as they appear." And when it finally sinks in it can be devastating.

If your father has already had two heart attacks I see no reason in possibly generating a third. I know. One was enough for me.

As others have suggested, preparing for those you care about ( however you go about it ) along with yourself could only produce positive results.

And you can always say, "I told you so."

If "The truth shall set you free" then free YOU will be! ;-))

[enfoldedblue]

Thanks Tesseract for raising a key point. Humans naturally do not like to feel that we are being forced into anything, and the natural response is to defend one's autonomy. I think the more attached we are to the outcome, the less successful our plight will be, because we are 'trying' to lead a person in a particular direction. However, if we have no attachment to outcome (ie don't care whether the person stirs or not) there is likely a much higher chance of being heard as the listener does not feel they are being coerced.



Some years ago my late father told me a story about his own father, who had an accident and broke his neck. While lying on the ground he went out of body, and could read the number plate of the ambulance and so on...

Prior to hearing this story, while I had numerous esoteric interests and while I did not disbelieve the out of body phenomenon - I had no reason to think I would ever know whether it was real or simply the product of a deluded/dreaming mind. As such, I mostly left the whole out of body question alone - and I believe that the unintended consequence of this was to make myself non receptive to the out of body condition. Having heard the story from a close relative, in a way, unlocked the possibility - or helped to awaken me, to use the vocabulary of this forum :).

So, without any attempt at proselytisation, another individual was able to benefit another.

[markpierre]

My outlook and perspective on life are of course ever evolving concepts. At the end of the day, I realize that there are few things in which I hold an unshakable faith. All else is up for inspection and revision. So, if even I am not yet completely satisfied with my internal model of the external, would it then be irresponsible for me to reciprocate these as some sort of higher truths?



That's your answer.

Teach by example. Your actions are the most revealing part of you. Your openness to change in yourself is the most useful and rewarding part of you at the moment.
And the most visible. Both to others and to yourself.

Only ever meet people exactly where they are, and don't compromise who you are. That doesn't mean proselytise. If your heart is leading you, you'll know what to do or say.
It IS presumptuous to believe you know another's agenda here. You don't quite know your own yet. But it's not presumptuous to assume that the recognition of love and support and
acceptance is what's missing in others. If there is indeed anything missing. That's why the mind retreated into self preservation in the first place.
You can do that for them without uttering a word, or any contact at all.
You can't know how or why an individual's human agenda is working with it's Soul agenda. Judgement is meaningless and futile. You''ll just be wrong.

There's no consensus here on what the idea of 'awake' is. If it means stock up on beans and rice and bullets, that's pretty limited. But it's not unworthy.
The other end of the spectrum is aware that you're dreaming, and participating with the purpose of dreaming everything into Reality. It begins somewhere,
and it is all the same process. But every step of the process is crucial to the completion of it. Don't take others conflict from them. It's important to them.
Respect it, and trust them to use it wisely. The mind that overcomes the conflict, is the same mind that orchestrated it. It did that for a reason.

Good thread. Don't shut up.

[christian]

So, what are your thoughts about raising consciousness? Both within ourselves and those around us?

Within, it's embracing the fact that there's always more to learn, that simple.

Around us, it depends so much on the given situation. Every interaction is like an alchemical reaction, where I mix up the elixir that I wanna put into the mix individually in each case. I like to talk to people on the street and everywhere, with them I often just focus on a particular issue or hint at things. Because it's a delicate walk between giving people useful information that will be a proper stepping stone for them and giving them too much information that they cannot handle at the moment and that will block them. So I don't go into the reptiles or the moon matrix unless I feel they're up for it, but clearly into banking and politics and "worldly" stuff.

Something you can easily tell virtually everybody is "the sum of the debt of the world cannot be paid back, because the system is set up that way. Austerity won't work, they want everybody to be in debt to cash in on the collateral and make everyone slaves, that's the endgame of the private central banking cartel. We've got to get rid of that." That's something everybody can understand in a minute and it is essential knowledge for everyone, a good starting point.

Or how about "the same banks and interest groups financed the Communists, the Nazis, and now both parties in the US." All verifiable facts, you can lay it out if you got it on top of your head, or you can look it up, print it out and show them the proof if they wanna hear it. We're heading towards a major crisis and to avoid this it's so important that people become educated as to who are the war mongerers and the profiteers, what really happened in the last (say) 100 years, central banking, false flags, wars, and that stuff.

When it comes to people I interact with often or on a daily basis, I will most definitely spell out all the basics of what I found out. From politics, to history, to spirituality, to all the rest, I want them to know who they are dealing with on a daily basis, meaning where I'm coming from and how the world really looks like when you examine it more thoroughly. If they reject my information straight away, I offer them to not talk about this anymore from then on, and that I am serious about what I said and that I just wanted to be clear. Worked out fair enough so far, most people I do this with, especially in my family, will come to me occasionally and ask for the latest developments or they allow me every now and then to tell them updates. But all in moderation. They're really living in another world, it literally gives them headaches to hear my stories for too long. They rather talk about trivial stuff, feels more comfortable to them, and I respect their free will choice. But by now they completly did realize my news and forecasts have been more accurate than what the hear from the MSM. So they really figured that I'm on to something, now it's mostly their fear of taking real responsibility and their fear to face how grim the situation is, that holds them back, plus their attachement/addiction to their old routine, their seemingly safe and protected life.

Now take Alex Jones for example or David Icke or Bill Ryan, what would they have done if they would have been worried too much about what other people might think about them or the outrageousness of the information they're putting out? Nice examples where people just vigorously and determinedly put out what they figured to be true and important and the massive effect they had this way.

[Fred Steeves]

Or how about "the same banks and interest groups financed the Communists, the Nazis, and now both parties in the US." All verifiable facts, you can lay it out if you got it on top of your head, or you can look it up, print it out and show them the proof if they wanna hear it.

That's funny Christian, reactions from the last two close relatives I tried laying that one on were basically "you're nucking futs", and "if it's so bad, then leave the country".(LOL) No amount of printouts or facts, were going to get in the way of their deep rooted responsibility of being a proud and patriotic American citizen. Just like I used to be.

I still mention these basic things to various neighbors from time to time, like Homeland Security is meant for the American people, not for Al Qaida, but even then it's only on the occasion when it seems to fit(somewhat) the mood. 9 times out of 10 it's still just usual neighbor talk. Being a carpenter, I appreciated Bill referencing Bill Deagle's carpenter wedge example:


Remember, you're what I call mustard seed carpenters. You have a carpenter's wedge, a bag of mustard seeds, and a hammer: And in the little cracks of their stupid skull you're gonna drive in these mustard seeds of common sense and when the water of disaster comes upon their heads the seeds are gonna grow whether they want them to or not and the roots are gonna start splitting theirvery,
very thick skulls.

As things continue to unravel here in the U.S., people don't seem to be scoffing quite as much any more. They may not be ready for the red pill yet, but they also know something's not right. "Dimly aware of a certain unease in the air", to steal a line from Roger Waters.

In the end Freed Fox, you're going to need to develop through trial and error, your own unique way of balancing what you know, with who and how you share it. It's certainly a dilemma, and as you can see there are no easy answers.

Best of luck,
Fred

[Limor Wolf]

In my experience someone has to be open and ready to take the first step, and until that point there is nothing we can say or do that will make any real difference. I am not really sure exactly what happens...but it is like the more we awaken, the higher our frequency becomes and the more access we have to the wider reality...but when we try and describe our higher frequency experiences to others on a lower frequency...it enters their brain as an annoying bla bla bla bla.... lol. Ultimately I have found that the best thing to do is to live my life according to the deeper truths that I have discovered, and be available to those who lift their eyes from the limited view of the blinders.

Maybe others have had more success :)

Your description, enfoldeblue, is true, I am afraid, no matter where you are in the world. Only trouble is the pain to see others going blindly to a very uncomfortable fate that they themselves (we) created and their awakening is about to be short and painful. and our planet earth in the absence of not enough "seeing"/feeling people is currently on a trail of destruction. let's hope it's just the human tendency to take things to a radicl edge. I do believe personally that flowers can blossom even in the desert and in rough conditions, so keep spreading seeds is the best shot for now, but it is also easy to feel that the game is stepping up now to a different level.

[greybeard]

Hi Fox,
I have been 'awake' for more than 20 years (I put in brackets because I have found that there are are many levels of awakening...and I know I am still not fully awake...for me it is definitely a process and not an event). In the beginning I wanted to run through the streets telling everybody about the deeper 'more true' aspects of life i had discovered. I actually expected everyone to be as intrigued and amazed as I was...lol. I really was genuinely surprized when I found that most people were not interested in the least, and some even seemed to resent what I had to say.

In my experience someone has to be open and ready to take the first step, and until that point there is nothing we can say or do that will make any real difference. I am not really sure exactly what happens...but it is like the more we awaken, the higher our frequency becomes and the more access we have to the wider reality...but when we try and describe our higher frequency experiences to others on a lower frequency...it enters their brain as an annoying bla bla bla bla.... lol. Ultimately I have found that the best thing to do is to live my life according to the deeper truths that I have discovered, and be available to those who lift their eyes from the limited view of the blinders.

Maybe others have had more success :)

Hi enfoldedblue
You are right, people have to be ready and sometimes a change of circumstances, where they find that unaided they are unable to resolve the situation, is necessary for them to consider a different way of experiencing the situation

The book Power Vs Force was a great help to me.
People act in accord with their frequency, that which they are tuned into.
Anything else is the bla bla bla.

Hawkins said if you want to help the world---stay out of traffic (dont get get in a position where there is a chance of being run over by negativity)
The crab escaping from the bucket full of crabs is pulled back by the others.
If asked for help of any kind thats one thing, otherwise, be silent, keep your nose out of other peoples business and do what you can to raise your own spiritual vibration
By raising your own frequency you have a profound positive effect on the collective consciousness.
Hawkins gave examples of how this can help even the starving child in Africa and other situations.

Be kind to all life, especially your own, no matter what.

Sometimes it is not kind to give advice unasked for---discernment is necessary.

Chris

[RMorgan]

Hey mate,

Well, one of my personal rules nowadays is to accept people closest to you the way they are. I´d expect them to do the same with me, because I´m far from being perfect.

Of course, you must be free to express yourself, so feel free to talk about your favorite subjects with your family and friends. However, always pay attention to their reaction. If the person looks interested, continue; If not, stop immediately.

Forcing your "truths" down someone else´s throat is never a good thing, specially when you can´t be sure if your "truths" are actual "truths" or not. By doing this, you might actually create the opposite result than the one you expected.

Like 9eagle9 said, you can never be sure if you´re really trying to wake them up or if you´re really just showing them another kind of dream. After all, how many people we see daily, who are brainwashed by religion, propaganda, politics or whatever? Brainwashed people don´t know they are brainwashed, so how can you guarantee you´re not one of them? You can´t.

So, question even your own thoughts, because they might be not exactly yours.

Anyway, one of the most ignorant things is to keep labeling people as "sheep" or "sleepers"...Whenever you put yourself in a superior position, it evokes the most selfish and pathetic emotions inside ourselves.

People are just people, no labels attached.

So, another very important thing is to learn to listen. This is really important. Don´t fall in this trap of thinking you have more important things to say than uncle Jim.

Don´t make life into a war, where you have to bomb people with your information and points of view. Conversations are not competitions are not supposed to have winners or losers. Make life into a rich experience of exchanging information, of shared perspectives.

I guarantee you that, every single person you will ever meet has something very important to teach you...Please, don´t fall for this trap of labeling yourself "awake", which will certainly lead to to ignore whatever comes from the mouth of people you consider to be "dreaming"...This is the stupidest form of prejudice and will close many doors to you.

So, to sum up, just be yourself, let others be themselves, so you can all naturally share "yourselves" and learn from each other.

Oh, another thing; Respect old folks and listen to them very carefully. We´re about the same age, and we tend to think we´re the masters of reason and these sort of things, but we´re wrong. Old people are treasures; They are the real deal. All you have to do is to listen to them. I´ve spoken to old folks who don´t even know how to read who had more things to teach than Freud, Stephen Hawking and Chomsky combined.

Raf.

[westhill]

Freed Fox...
No eye rolling here, keep posting!
No one will wake up truly until they are ready. We may think we are causing it, but we are just observing their process.

sH_fOJznIUk

[donk]

Planting seeds is a great analogy, but I think the hammer thing completely destroys it--and is identical to the idea of "shake" awake.

I think a "toolkit" approach is better. For some people, the hammer will just destroy their skull, no chance of seed taking root...as many mentioned already and you have experienced.

I found that is important to form "real" relationships with people, being aware that very few people are used to that, and most are actively resistant to it and totally defensive. It is not easy, but worth it (to me) to get to really know those people--to be able to relate to them, or more importantly: help them relate to you...then you can find a way to communicate with them that they can understand...to "find the right tool" to use to most productively plant the seed.

Sharing your truth with those so attached to their own is always tricky, but can be fun, is definitely worth it. Patience isn't always easy, but is always required. Everybody deep down can benefit from living in a reality that is not created by their ideas, but the programming is so good that most think they prefer the illusion/matrix/sleep. Some might cling to that for this lifetime. You have to be ok with that...it is hard lesson to learn, but it "freed" me, and I found I gotta trying no matter how frustrating.

[Gekko]

Your father sounds like mine. He had open heart surgery ten years ago and has been on coumadin ever since. His health has declined into pre-diabetes and pseudo-narcolepsy. He goes to sleep in front of the TV every night and gets up to drink a pot of coffee at 1 am. My parents are immersed in MSM in the forms of TV, print and radio.

So many things about him - the way he moves, speaks, and makes decisions says that he's waiting to die.

He is able to see the dots in the picture which could be evidence that something is really not right with the world - scandals, examples of blatant economic and social domination, the incentives given to doctors regarding medication. But they rather seem like haphazard holes in the fabric of a comfortable 50's worldview than dots to be connected and investigated as its own fabric.

Part of the issue is that there's no alternate, widespread, prevailing worldview to escape to. I know that giving up the official narrative has left me in a vertiginous storm of conflicting ideas, disinformation, and alluring but false platforms to adopt. It seems there is no alternative to doing the hard soul-searching for yourself and always living partially in the dark, taking the risk of striding into unknown territory and taking action, willing to make mistakes, living without a manual while keeping compass in your heart.

Who to trust? Who to listen to? The current paradigm might be miserable, but at least it's somewhat determined. It allows my parents to earn money to support their family and keep their house. To lose faith in that paradigm and its supplied meanings would be to lose all remaining willpower to keep moving. The tenuous web supporting my severely disabled brother and my (much less) disabled self would collapse. In effect, the family is held for ransom. The dots cannot be allowed to connect.

The only thing I can possibly do is keep searching for a modus vivendi for myself. If my parents can live to see that I've finally found the agency to live in a way that makes me empowered and happy, they may no longer feel the need to maintain the illusion which is wearing them down.

[Lifebringer]

It's a caucious journey to try and find the key without making them think you are daft in the head or some love hippy, however sometimes when playing cards, i put a few videos on so they can hear some of the stuff, or leave a sheet of paper with the words Closer to God/Creator list. Sometimes the spirit will be inquisitive enough at that age to pull the link up, or check past histories in the search boxes. I always just copy the link, be it You Tube UFO video from countries like UK, Paraguay, Brazil, Mexico or Argentina. The least they will be curious about is why you are seeking spirituality in other countries, and then they see other links later on meditation and the "dis-ease" of living a stressed life. May I recommend Dr. Pookrum's Dis ease lectures on You Tube and the connection of stress in life to heart, and mind disease cause. Perhaps the meditation techniques of Chi Kung on Youtube or blocked chakra here on avalon. If you tell him you've been checking out a spiritual site for connection to the creator or God, techniques to strengthen the soul, he may take a gander at it, as he may have thought about the after life, after 2 heart attacks. Perhaps some of the You Tube Dr videos of OBEs and others. Check some of them out, and perhaps asking your Father what he thinks about it all, will stir the conversation. Ask if he's had questions on why the other books of the Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth B.I.B.L.E were taken out and if he thought that all the word of God was as important as what they left out. Why were the scrolls hidden? All those questions, then perhaps he'll be open to seeking some other information. But as you know, when the door/mind is open, the information comes flying in and the keys will click just as fast. The absorbtion of what he is able to handle after watching(I take it he watches Fox) may cause him to have to slow down if he becomes anxious while finding this truth that has been hidden. I'm sure he'll be proud that you are seeking and sometimes even search with you. But I would go with the missing books, and hope he doesn't think you are acting like a devil, because you are questioning/inquiring on more than he knows, and withdraw and go back to old teachings. It's a tough call. I don't know your fathers mood comfort zone. But little things like that and practicing quiet meditation so you can destress around him, perhaps even YOGA, will get him moving in the right direction. i put a few people onto the search, and they are still with it. Some have said they are having clearity of thoughts before speaking or acting. The confusion in the world now, wants people to act first, ask questions later.

[4evrneo]

Hi FreedFox,
I just wanted to tell you about my experience trying to wake up my family......

I love my family dearly but lost the love of my life and now dont speak to my father because they dont agree with me at all. My mother is a lifelong alcoholic so she too is not ready.

I experienced alot of hurt in this process but I learned valuable lessons and still love them but all I can do is just be me and continue on my awakening path and hope that some day they will finally come around. I will add that everyone here is right ! Shine your light and accept whatever happens with love most of all. Give love to all regardless of their beliefs and choices.

All my blessings to you FreedFox,

Annette

ps. my two adult children that live with me are waking up and such a blessing it is :)

[Ivanhoe]

This is the only place I've found, recently, with people of whom I find myself in like mind.
I don't preach to anyone, I don't offer advice unless asked.
I found out a long time ago that my beliefs are so divergent from others I'm around that they tune me out.
So now I listen, and when called upon I speak of what I believe, because I think that's when I can be most affective, not only in expressing my thoughts to someone else, but through speaking to others I clarify my own thoughts to myself.
Hope that makes sense to y'all.

[Freed Fox]

Thank you all for your responses and wisdom. I found myself agreeing with virtually everyone, to some degree. That is not at all contradictory as this is a very multifaceted issue.

I hope I didn't imply that I am fully 'awake' in the OP. As many have pointed out, it is an ever on-going process. Thinking that you are at the end of the process is usually a mistake leading to indoctrination. That is one of the complexities of the issue, because it would not be simply awakening someone else, but starting them on a potentially lifelong process. I both agree and disagree with the idea that everyone is currently going through their process. I feel that, unfortunately, there is such a thing as arrested development in this regard (indoctrination, adopting an immovable stance).

It really boils down to this, to me;

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

I was thinking about the actual metaphor of waking up and 'to shake them awake'. I was not talking so much as sitting up straight in a room full of 'sleepers'. Rather, we're all essentially asleep, in the darkness, together. In my still sleeping semi-consciousness, my assessment is that I've barely just gathered the awareness that there is something to wake up from. Maybe I can't even move my arms and legs yet (sleep paralysis).

So, in some ways, efforts to alert those who seem to be in a deeper sleep than me would not be waking them up, but bringing them into the same confusing and uncomfortable situation which I myself am trying to rectify. As bad and irresponsible as that may seem, however, I know that it is a necessary step in becoming fully awake at last. I do not know what ramifications await a soul who physically dies without endeavoring to wake up, if there are any at all.

But in terms of waking versus inducing a different dream, is that really so bad? When you could bring about a more pleasant dream? Is it really all or nothing when someone else is having a nightmare?

[another bob]

Contrary to popular opinion in forums like this, not everyone is here, incarnating in this realm, to "awaken". In fact, true Awakening is now, and always has been, the provenance of the very few, who have chosen that very steep route for their own evolutionary purposes. In any particular generation, out of the billions of human incarnations, only a literal handful will awaken in the true sense -- that is, recognize their true nature and primal (Divine) identity while in human form.

Rather, the purpose in assuming these human forms (for most of us) is more along the lines of finding out what the human experience entails, in much the same way we might immerse ourselves in a flight simulator to discover what flying is all about. Of course, if we knew it was just a simulation, we would not be able to get the full experience, and so we "forget" that it is just a simulation, a virtual reality, so as to enjoy the full impact of living the animal existence that is human, for the brief duration of the bio-vehicle's appearance.

Once we are fused with the human container that we are temporarily occupying, we accumulate memories and experiences of our time as humans, and use them as fuel for our ongoing self-discovery. One of the primary tools is "ego", which allows us to explore all the nooks and cranies of the psyche to see what we are really made of, and so we use this ego to learn how to behave, how to do the right thing in each situation presented to us by virtue of our human experience. In that respect, it is a kind of navigational tool.

What most here tend to believe consitutes awakening is merely gathering more (and alternative) information about the mechanisms by which this realm operates. For example, it might involve peeling back the curtain on hidden government manipulations, on media lies, on alien contact, on secrets and deceptions that constitute this world's propaganda, but as interesting as all that might be, it all belongs in the category of impermanence, and so has nothing to do with real Awakening, which is the direct recognition of That which does not change, and is not modified by events or circumstances in consciousness.

Just so, trying to get others to awaken in the sense generally accepted by this forum is more a matter of transfer of certain data, and any data transfer is dependent on both the transfer vehicle and the receptor. If the receptor has the capacity, it will receive, but remember, we are only talking about modifying consciousness, not getting to its root (which again is what real Awakening is all about). In other words, when we discuss awakening others, what we are usually talking about is changing someone's beliefs, but not undermining the whole belief structure altogether.

Since most beings are here for purposes other than Awakening with a capital A, what right do we have to force our views on them? As a matter of fact, most folks who are led down the "rabbit hole" of conspiracy theories and facts are often better off left alone to fulfill their term here, focusing instead on just enjoying the human experience in whatever way they see fit. This is why the principle of non-interference universally applies -- a "prime directive".

If it is in someone's "script" to get involved in the subjects discussed here, then they will be led here by their own inclination. The best we can do is to make them aware that there are differing views that can be considered, and if the receptor is interested in what they may be, then they can be pointed in the direction most conducive to such education.

[GloriousPoetry]

Tasting the cup of truth even when everyone around you says its taste is not true leads one to resonate with a passion so true that no one can keep you from its grip on you.

[ROMANWKT]

Contrary to popular opinion in forums like this, not everyone is here, incarnating in this realm, to "awaken". In fact, true Awakening is now, and always has been, the provenance of the very few, who have chosen that very steep route for their own evolutionary purposes. In any particular generation, out of the billions of human incarnations, only a literal handful will awaken in the true sense -- that is, recognize their true nature and primal (Divine) identity while in human form.

Rather, the purpose in assuming these human forms (for most of us) is more along the lines of finding out what the human experience entails, in much the same way we might immerse ourselves in a flight simulator to discover what flying is all about. Of course, if we knew it was just a simulation, we would not be able to get the full experience, and so we "forget" that it is just a simulation, a virtual reality, so as to enjoy the full impact of living the animal existence that is human, for the brief duration of the bio-vehicle's appearance.

Once we are fused with the human container that we are temporarily occupying, we accumulate memories and experiences of our time as humans, and use them as fuel for our ongoing self-discovery. One of the primary tools is "ego", which allows us to explore all the nooks and cranies of the psyche to see what we are really made of, and so we use this ego to learn how to behave, how to do the right thing in each situation presented to us by virtue of our human experience. In that respect, it is a kind of navigational tool.

What most here tend to believe consitutes awakening is merely gathering more (and alternative) information about the mechanisms by which this realm operates. For example, it might involve peeling back the curtain on hidden government manipulations, on media lies, on alien contact, on secrets and deceptions that constitute this world's propaganda, but as interesting as all that might be, it all belongs in the category of impermanence, and so has nothing to do with real Awakening, which is the direct recognition of That which does not change, and is not modified by events or circumstances in consciousness.

Just so, trying to get others to awaken in the sense generally accepted by this forum is more a matter of transfer of certain data, and any data transfer is dependent on both the transfer vehicle and the receptor. If the receptor has the capacity, it will receive, but remember, we are only talking about modifying consciousness, not getting to its root (which again is what real Awakening is all about). In other words, when we discuss awakening others, what we are usually talking about is changing someone's beliefs, but not undermining the whole belief structure altogether.

Since most beings are here for purposes other than Awakening with a capital A, what right do we have to force our views on them? As a matter of fact, most folks who are led down the "rabbit hole" of conspiracy theories and facts are often better off left alone to fulfill their term here, focusing instead on just enjoying the human experience in whatever way they see fit. This is why the principle of non-interference universally applies -- a "prime directive".

If it is in someone's "script" to get involved in the subjects discussed here, then they will be led here by their own inclination. The best we can do is to make them aware that there are differing views that can be considered, and if the receptor is interested in what they may be, then they can be pointed in the direction most conducive to such education.

Would you say that this person is putting something in as a belief or removing. http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54458-The-Most-Important-20-Page-Read-of-Your-Life-Ever and would you say that the mechanics displayed here were false to your doctrine view. http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54427-My-Friend-Lester-Levenson, what is better, something of this knowledge, or nothing of this knowleadge.

Regards to you Bob

roman

[modwiz]

For me it is less about being awake than getting in control of the dream. Row, row, row your boat.
Forrest Gump applies too.

[ROMANWKT]

For me it is less about being awake than getting in control of the dream. Row, row, row your boat.
Forrest Gump applies too.

Well I in with you anytime Modwiz, just ask.

Regards to you Modwiz

roman

[Fred Steeves]

Here's a good example I think, of a proper time and place to lay some "stuff" on someone, gently of course. I returned a phone call yesterday to an old friend of mine, an electrician I met years ago during a long term job, and who also taught me how to use guns during the same time period. He had originally called about supporting the NRA during this whole deal, of which I have little interest, but I held my breath and boldly stated that I think the whole Sandy Hook shooting was staged. To my surprise he agreed...

Just a bit of background. We've talked about 9/11 and similar things, because he has never bought the lone gunman story with JFK. He really does research things, but he just can't wrap his mind around the fact that no matter how crooked our government is, they would never go that far, case closed. So it's always been a matter of "oh geez Fred, you and your wacky conspiracy theories".(LOL) Sound familiar? That's why I was surprised he so readily agreed Sandy Hook was staged. So being that he had just given me a little rope to run with, I laid another one on him, that something is terribly wrong with a bunch of those people, and that some of them are acting.

The shields went up immediately, but not for long. I just chuckled, and listed some of the bizarre behaviors we have witnessed, and next thing you know he's agreeing with it! He's noticed it too, but he just hadn't connected the dots!!! I was stunned, deep down he already suspected this horrible possibility, and it just took someone he respected actually saying so for it to surface. I could literally feel the light bulb in his head flipping on, but at the same time, that was enough for one conversation.

This is exactly that fine line we have to be acutely aware of, which is the foundation of this thread. I'm going to let my old friend mull all that over for as long as he wants, and likely he will have a question or two next time we chat, or get together for a couple of beers.

[soleil]

hi freedfox, this is the one thing, the onnnneeee thing that has me stuck more than the most things since "waking" up.
ive meditated on my approach for a while now, and i'm learning more and more, that i am not a martyr. im just another 'ONE' learning for myself. so much so, that i feel the same way as westhill. but that doesnt stop me from spreading the info. ANYWAY that i can, while being me and not being pushy. if i inspire one person to learn or read something new, then i've done my job. :)

i cant push anyone into going through the same rabbit hole that i did. i didnt accept that to happen to me, first of all. i can only accept those around me, and help plant that mustard seed. :wizard:

[Rich]

I remember events where I wanted to share what has helped me and most of the time they would either get defensive or run away.
But if I understood others I would obviously gone about it in a different way
or simply accept that they don't want my input.

To understand others is key, not only will you gain a lot more from
understanding others but also get a feeling of how much you can share.

Look for your own ignorance, arrogance, ego agenda of what you want to accomplish with giving that information.

A neighbor of mine that I sometimes talk to and visit was a drunk and his flat
was a total mess now he stopped drinking completely and cleaned his flat and made it beautiful.
I probably had some kind of positive influence on him and I never told him how
to think or to stop drinking or what to do. But once when he was somewhat
drunk he told me: ''you help without being aware of it''.

Of course it's important to let people know what is going on in the world but
your attitude without words also has a great influence.

[sleepy]

xxxxx xxxxx

[music]

Here's a good example I think, of a proper time and place to lay some "stuff" on someone, gently of course. I returned a phone call yesterday to an old friend of mine, an electrician I met years ago during a long term job, and who also taught me how to use guns during the same time period. He had originally called about supporting the NRA during this whole deal, of which I have little interest, but I held my breath and boldly stated that I think the whole Sandy Hook shooting was staged. To my surprise he agreed...

Just a bit of background. We've talked about 9/11 and similar things, because he has never bought the lone gunman story with JFK. He really does research things, but he just can't wrap his mind around the fact that no matter how crooked our government is, they would never go that far, case closed. So it's always been a matter of "oh geez Fred, you and your wacky conspiracy theories".(LOL) Sound familiar? That's why I was surprised he so readily agreed Sandy Hook was staged. So being that he had just given me a little rope to run with, I laid another one on him, that something is terribly wrong with a bunch of those people, and that some of them are acting.

The shields went up immediately, but not for long. I just chuckled, and listed some of the bizarre behaviors we have witnessed, and next thing you know he's agreeing with it! He's noticed it too, but he just hadn't connected the dots!!! I was stunned, deep down he already suspected this horrible possibility, and it just took someone he respected actually saying so for it to surface. I could literally feel the light bulb in his head flipping on, but at the same time, that was enough for one conversation.

This is exactly that fine line we have to be acutely aware of, which is the foundation of this thread. I'm going to let my old friend mull all that over for as long as he wants, and likely he will have a question or two next time we chat, or get together for a couple of beers.

People are right now energetically pre-disposed to "waking up". The intense energies we have all been experiencing are in a way like a searchlight from which we can no longer hide. The truth will out, there is nothing that can be done to stop it. Love will prevail, it is a force without equal and our true nature. All is well, we live in a new world, it's just that most of us haven't realised that yet.

[Freed Fox]

More than relevant, though likely well known;

d2afuTvUzBQ

[Peace of Mind]

You have to be a fixture in your community, be active.

People/We are followers and leaders by nature. Most of us need to see if something works before experimenting with it on our own. Before venturing in or before experimentation...we require examples to verify what works and what doesn’t. When you are placed in a position to assist others you should do it by example, if you are seldom seen and/or spend most of your time preaching instead of teaching through examples then people will hardly take you serious. Anyone can run off their mouth, anyone can type words. People are hesitant because we need to see how much a person cares and how serious they are before offering support and consideration, yes, we have some serious trust issues. To remedy that you do it by the actions of your being. If all you do is talk than that’s most likely all you will get back. Action has always spoken louder than words, we all respond to action in one way or another (atleast we respond).... and we all easily ignore words and we’ve been doing a great job at that…so to expect others to do what you're not showcasing will be a daunting task.

Peace

[sirdipswitch]

Interesting
Been sittin here thinkin
With George chucklin over my shoulder
When suddenly
A favorite old song
Popped in...

"playin the fools game
hoppin to win...
I was lookin for love
in all the wrong places...

:wizard:

[westhill]

Maybe it's more about letting go of the oars and letting the river take you.
Being in control is not necessarily the same as being awake.



For me it is less about being awake than getting in control of the dream. Row, row, row your boat.
Forrest Gump applies too.

Well I in with you anytime Modwiz, just ask.

Regards to you Modwiz

roman

[Amysenthia]

Hi Freed Fox,

Thank you for Pming me to this thread. I have so appreciated the thoughts that I have seen displayed here. I have recently experienced consequences amongst my close family for of all things mentioned here. For me it is mostly that I am being ostracized for believing that there are other "intelligent beings in the universe besides just us". On one hand I can't even believe that I am going through this when this is the same family member that as a child saw "flying saucers over our house" and I know was part of the contact experiences that I had my ENTIRE childhood. I saw them on the ships when I was being educated by these ETs. We even have police reports about the "saucers" being over our house that the neighbors noticed. Now this family member is saying that I am "crazy" to believe that such things exist and doesn't want me around their family.

So should I thrust on them what I know to be true. This person that I love dearly is deeply worried about their family and feels that to even acknowledge that what happened to us as children, (and of me as an adult), really happened. That to acknowledge it will somehow make their children be subjected to the same things. Keep in mind that my experiences were all positive. It was not the experiences such as where the greys come and abduct you and treat you like a lab rat. My experiences were all about being educated by wonderful beings about our planet, the destiny of mankind, how to heal people with energy, having my psychic abilities upgraded, etc. All good. Maybe this family member experienced different treatment, that I am not sure because they do not talk about what they had done to them. Even when we were young. All that they would ever acknowledge is that they remember is that when they were being "taken" that I was there too. I remember them being taken with me at the same time, but have no memory of what was done to them when we were taken.

So do you force them to "Wake Up" to the fact that your reality should be their reality. I know that most of the comments here are based on the "future economic collapse or not", does the "Illuminati government exist or not", etc. To me these are the more mundane aspects of life. These are the fear mongering points that do not acknowledge that "NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS WE ARE IMMORTAL SOULS HAVING A HUMAN EXPERIENCE". Whether our bodies die or live does not really matter to the soul. I know that many times I read how we should be buying seeds to sustain ourselves and make preparations for the collapse. Buy gold, go underground, move out of the cities, etc. I guess I just don't see what all the fuss is about. So you die tomorrow. Your soul will go on to its next experience. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Please don't misunderstand me, that when I see the hint of a crack in someones willingness to understand more, I am ready and willing to share and give people all the information that they need to start "on the path". I just don't see where it is necessary to try to force a soul to start a path that they are not ready for. In fact I see it as a little bit cruel to put them into such an uncomfortable position. As the saying goes, " Let go and let God", I prefer to believe that there is a higher purpose/guidance in every soul's existence that knows when it is best for that soul to progress. As the old saying goes, "when the student is ready the teacher will come'. When a soul is ready to move to the next level the information will be sought out and recognized. If the end of the world comes and that soul was not prepared, a place will be ready for them in the higher order of things.

If I am meant to be a part of the time to come, or not, that will happen as it should. Yes I have my emergency supplies prepared just in case the "Economic Collapse" happens, or whatever calamity may come. However, I do not worry about what is to come. I know that whatever may come it is all just another "soul experience". i can not however "MAKE' OR 'FORCE' this level of soul experience on someone else. Plus I feel that it is exceptionally arrogant and insensitive to push another soul into a level of experience that they are not comfortable with.

[Youniverse]

Your father sounds like mine. He had open heart surgery ten years ago and has been on coumadin ever since. His health has declined into pre-diabetes and pseudo-narcolepsy. He goes to sleep in front of the TV every night and gets up to drink a pot of coffee at 1 am. My parents are immersed in MSM in the forms of TV, print and radio.

So many things about him - the way he moves, speaks, and makes decisions says that he's waiting to die.

He is able to see the dots in the picture which could be evidence that something is really not right with the world - scandals, examples of blatant economic and social domination, the incentives given to doctors regarding medication. But they rather seem like haphazard holes in the fabric of a comfortable 50's worldview than dots to be connected and investigated as its own fabric.

Part of the issue is that there's no alternate, widespread, prevailing worldview to escape to. I know that giving up the official narrative has left me in a vertiginous storm of conflicting ideas, disinformation, and alluring but false platforms to adopt. It seems there is no alternative to doing the hard soul-searching for yourself and always living partially in the dark, taking the risk of striding into unknown territory and taking action, willing to make mistakes, living without a manual while keeping compass in your heart.

Who to trust? Who to listen to? The current paradigm might be miserable, but at least it's somewhat determined. It allows my parents to earn money to support their family and keep their house. To lose faith in that paradigm and its supplied meanings would be to lose all remaining willpower to keep moving. The tenuous web supporting my severely disabled brother and my (much less) disabled self would collapse. In effect, the family is held for ransom. The dots cannot be allowed to connect.

The only thing I can possibly do is keep searching for a modus vivendi for myself. If my parents can live to see that I've finally found the agency to live in a way that makes me empowered and happy, they may no longer feel the need to maintain the illusion which is wearing them down.

You are a very wise young man! And I don't mean that in a patronizing kind of way. Your story makes tremendous sense and I can relate to it in many ways regarding my family. It seems like the day my family truly wakes up, will be the day I land on their driveway in a flying saucer and say "How's it going?"

[Youniverse]

Contrary to popular opinion in forums like this, not everyone is here, incarnating in this realm, to "awaken". In fact, true Awakening is now, and always has been, the provenance of the very few, who have chosen that very steep route for their own evolutionary purposes. In any particular generation, out of the billions of human incarnations, only a literal handful will awaken in the true sense -- that is, recognize their true nature and primal (Divine) identity while in human form.

Rather, the purpose in assuming these human forms (for most of us) is more along the lines of finding out what the human experience entails, in much the same way we might immerse ourselves in a flight simulator to discover what flying is all about. Of course, if we knew it was just a simulation, we would not be able to get the full experience, and so we "forget" that it is just a simulation, a virtual reality, so as to enjoy the full impact of living the animal existence that is human, for the brief duration of the bio-vehicle's appearance.

Once we are fused with the human container that we are temporarily occupying, we accumulate memories and experiences of our time as humans, and use them as fuel for our ongoing self-discovery. One of the primary tools is "ego", which allows us to explore all the nooks and cranies of the psyche to see what we are really made of, and so we use this ego to learn how to behave, how to do the right thing in each situation presented to us by virtue of our human experience. In that respect, it is a kind of navigational tool.

What most here tend to believe consitutes awakening is merely gathering more (and alternative) information about the mechanisms by which this realm operates. For example, it might involve peeling back the curtain on hidden government manipulations, on media lies, on alien contact, on secrets and deceptions that constitute this world's propaganda, but as interesting as all that might be, it all belongs in the category of impermanence, and so has nothing to do with real Awakening, which is the direct recognition of That which does not change, and is not modified by events or circumstances in consciousness.

Just so, trying to get others to awaken in the sense generally accepted by this forum is more a matter of transfer of certain data, and any data transfer is dependent on both the transfer vehicle and the receptor. If the receptor has the capacity, it will receive, but remember, we are only talking about modifying consciousness, not getting to its root (which again is what real Awakening is all about). In other words, when we discuss awakening others, what we are usually talking about is changing someone's beliefs, but not undermining the whole belief structure altogether.

Since most beings are here for purposes other than Awakening with a capital A, what right do we have to force our views on them? As a matter of fact, most folks who are led down the "rabbit hole" of conspiracy theories and facts are often better off left alone to fulfill their term here, focusing instead on just enjoying the human experience in whatever way they see fit. This is why the principle of non-interference universally applies -- a "prime directive".

If it is in someone's "script" to get involved in the subjects discussed here, then they will be led here by their own inclination. The best we can do is to make them aware that there are differing views that can be considered, and if the receptor is interested in what they may be, then they can be pointed in the direction most conducive to such education.

Not saying this is how it is, but it may be the case that this "new age" is different than the past age, in that people are here to wake up on a massive scale. To experience what Earth is like when virtually everyone is awake. The severity and urgency of the world's current problems would indeed fall in line with this plan or purpose. Though, I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying about much of the history we know about. I certainly choose to believe that there is a mass awakening at hand. Or I prefer to believe that because it would be totally cool!!!

[Youniverse]

Freed Fox,
If your dad is open to it may I suggest a documentary? ETHOS, Presented by Woody Harrelson; In my opinion it is very well done and I think it contains good information for a start. I posted it in the Books Videos Articles section of the general discussion forum.






Here's a good example I think, of a proper time and place to lay some "stuff" on someone, gently of course. I returned a phone call yesterday to an old friend of mine, an electrician I met years ago during a long term job, and who also taught me how to use guns during the same time period. He had originally called about supporting the NRA during this whole deal, of which I have little interest, but I held my breath and boldly stated that I think the whole Sandy Hook shooting was staged. To my surprise he agreed...

Just a bit of background. We've talked about 9/11 and similar things, because he has never bought the lone gunman story with JFK. He really does research things, but he just can't wrap his mind around the fact that no matter how crooked our government is, they would never go that far, case closed. So it's always been a matter of "oh geez Fred, you and your wacky conspiracy theories".(LOL) Sound familiar? That's why I was surprised he so readily agreed Sandy Hook was staged. So being that he had just given me a little rope to run with, I laid another one on him, that something is terribly wrong with a bunch of those people, and that some of them are acting.

The shields went up immediately, but not for long. I just chuckled, and listed some of the bizarre behaviors we have witnessed, and next thing you know he's agreeing with it! He's noticed it too, but he just hadn't connected the dots!!! I was stunned, deep down he already suspected this horrible possibility, and it just took someone he respected actually saying so for it to surface. I could literally feel the light bulb in his head flipping on, but at the same time, that was enough for one conversation.

This is exactly that fine line we have to be acutely aware of, which is the foundation of this thread. I'm going to let my old friend mull all that over for as long as he wants, and likely he will have a question or two next time we chat, or get together for a couple of beers.

Fred,

Something very similar happened to my husband and me. A neighbor, down the road, stopped to chat with my husband and they were talking about Obama’s new gun laws and the neighbor brought up the fact, very gently, that he saw problems with Sandy Hook. My husband and I gave each other a look of being pleasantly surprised. I agreed with him that I believed something was wrong with the story and we spoke about it briefly. I think we were both just feeling each other out. We didn’t get into much detail but I can’t tell you how refreshing it was for someone else to bring up the idea that the MSM was telling a big lie. That has never happened before. Maybe the times are changing. Next time we chat with this neighbor we may have a good talk.

Yeah the great thing about big stars doing those kinds of documentaries is that it draws more viewers in that might get intrigued and curious and start digging deeper!

[Freed Fox]

Amysenthia: Though this is (generally) an issue at some point for most of us here, it sounds like your situation is quite unique and even more challenging. Not just in being an abductee, but being close to others who went through something similar and yet seemingly refuse to acknowledge it. Despite that complexity (for which I can give no advice), it sounds like you've gained some clarity in that regard, and are approaching the issue in a healthy and respectful way.

Thank you for sharing, and best of luck to you. :)