Pictures of "Isolated Viruses" Debunked

[sigma6]

Dr. Stefan Lanka Exposes The "Viral Fraud" (http://www.neue-medizin.com/lanka2.htm)

Dr. Stefan Lanka, virologist and molecular biologist, is internationally mostly known as an "AIDS dissident" (and maybe "gentechnology dissident") who has been questioning the very existence of "HIV" since 1994. In the past years, however, he stumbled over a breathtaking fact: Not even ONE of the (medically relevant) viruses has ever been isolated; there is no proof of their existence. Actually, Dr. Lanka has already stated three years ago, in the almost "legendary" Zenger´s interview: (http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/hiv/mcinterviewsl.htm) "So for a long time I studied virology, from the end to the beginning, from the beginning to the end, to be absolutely sure that there was no such thing as HIV. And it was easy for me to be sure about this because I realized that the whole group of viruses to which HIV is said to belong, the retroviruses -- as well as other viruses which are claimed to be very dangerous -- in fact do not exist at all."

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

That is quite scary.

But please read about bacteriophages, a class of virus that lives in E Coli and Y Pestis, etc.
They have been engineered recently in fact, within last 30 years, to provide such systems as "Lambda Red".

My ex boyfriend actually worked on lambda red, when he helped to "isolate" the P1 and study its properties.
The P1 bacteriophage.

Well, P1 is used by NIH researchers to splice DNA for bioweapons. it was used to make Anthrax vaccine, which made our troops so ill.

Now, I don't think I believe the official story on AIDS, but as for viruses or at least DNA errors, I do believe in those.

The man's name was Hansjoerg lenherr and his research on P1 and AIDS is freely available online, iirc.
He might be a tree to bark up if you want to know more about AIDS.

if you are right it means his whole career was a cover for a bigger project, and that is scary.

i wonder if he just fed me some company line and i believed it.
I found out about Lambda Red all on my lonesome though.

*sneaks away*

[Adi]

Comment Deleted

[karelia]

This is utter and complete nonsense. This guys information is completely flawed. He has been shown to be a delusional fraud and was unable to prove any of his medical credentials. To say a disease like HIV, AIDS or Polio do not exist is a scandal. People around the world are dying because of these very microorganisms invading there immune systems and practically poking holes in it. HIV is very real, the question of how its very existence has been queried, on how such a complicated virus came about, testimony would suggest it may have been engineered, according to some sources on the Project Camelot interviews, apparently.

I hate seeing posts like this, especially about things witch you have had direct experience to be able to know that they exist, seeing loved ones dying because of them. People should become more sensitive to the things they talk about.

Adi

Perhaps you should read a bit closer. Lanka never said the diseases don't exist! What he said instead was that those viruses don't exist, and if you read Beauchamp et al, it all makes a lot more sense than the germ theory.

Lanka is a biologist, so why would he need "medical" credentials? He is challenging the very people who've made billion$ on the germ theory, including vaccination, so of course he must be discredited. He's lucky he's still alive, I reckon.

[scanner]

Dr Tent knows a little about this subject ,

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54590-Why-we-are-ALL-sick-Dr-R.E.-Tent&highlight=trent

[Adi]

Comment Deleted

[sigma6]

VACCINATIONS ARE A FRAUD BECAUSE THE ENTIRE MAJOR PREMISES THEY ARE BASED ON ARE A FRAUD.


ASK YOURSELF HOW CAN AN INDUSTRY THAT HAS SPENT AND MADE HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS MAKING AND SELLING VACCINATIONS FOR THE LAST 80 YEARS, OVERLOOKED MAINTAINING ANY STATISTICS TO DEFINITIVELY PROVE THEIR EFFICACY...

BECAUSE THEY KNEW IT WAS A FRAUD!!


And all statistics that are NOW FINALLY being collected by PRIVATE INTERESTS GROUPS are FINALLY EXPOSING this FRAUD...

(holy crap is this really that complicated?????)

With all due respect. I totally question your motivations. I have heard this song so many times it is starting to sound hollow. Can anybody see the pattern here? I will let others decide for themselves whether your patented response is genuine or not, but to me it rings hollow.

They have been saying that the AIDS virus is a fraud for decades, when someone starts the "this topic is too sensitive to talk about because of dying loved ones" I am really starting to question their motivations... We are here to discuss things in a scientific and rational matter. But when others use all the well known propaganda techniques from "I plugging my ears because your not sensitive enough" or "this is a bunch of nonsense" (with no evidence or reference) or "let's not focus on the topic but talk about our sensitivities..." is B.S. and has to stop. The topic is that there is a FRAUD going on. HAS BEEN GOING, and as long as people keep trying to deflect away with by having a who has the "most sensitive soul" contest WILL CONTINUE TO KEEP GOING ON!

If you gave a sh** about people dying then you would look at EVERYTHING. I don't know how many articles I have seen debunking the HIV model over the years. I did just assume that it was common knowledge. I am sure there are many others that have come across these articles... ie. how they are "amazed" that there are millions of people in Africa with the HIV marker and no illness, etc. and of course they come up with misdirection on misdirecton to explain it away...

And since this type of response is by now so predictable, and so monotonous on this site, I will pre-emptively state for the record, this isn't saying people aren't really dying, it is saying the REAL CAUSE has been hidden. I have talked to DRs in a HOSPITAL, who have told me point blank that they DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT A VIRUS IS!

And I will never forget how they reacted. I thought I was asking a simple question, but it set them into the deepest philosophical state of mind and conjecture, and it was only a nurse who came in observing the conversation. Purposely snapping them out of their conversation before they went any further in their speculation... in other words they were incapable of thinking outside the box... (questioning the validity of what they were taught)

SO THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT SOME OF THESE PEOPLE WORKING IN THE INDUSTRY ARE WELL AWARE SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT.

Essentially what I think he is saying and based on the rather "interesting" conversation I had with the Drs is that bacteria are more complex then we know and viruses are like "cancer" are like "schizophrenia" is really just a word that science uses to plaster over a whole bunch of "phenomena" that they can't really nail down and and they can't accurately define. This then creates the OPPORTUNITY to create an entire industry creating BOGUS cures that are in fact designed to continue milking dumb suckers who are only concerned with their "sensitivity" to keep spending millions and millions until they can mature it into a MULTI BILLION dollar industry that now controls the Government....

And in the case of viruses, they are on the same level as theoretical physicists speculating about the possible existence of something they have never seen and have no physical direct evidence of. At least in the case of the physicists, they have mathematical formula to deduce a possibility. Not to get off topic but I think the whole big "Boson" discovery is a lark, a cover before people start asking why they spent 10, 20 billion on what amounts to basically a scientific toy. (i.e. who knows what the real agenda is?.. or what it is REALLY being used for, it is so huge, they could hide entire Secret Projects, and who would be the wiser?)

And viruses (not sure if that is the plural) are just another red herring, another misdirection, In Water of life, which was published in 1944, they ALREADY KNEW "vaccines" were killing children. The Rockefellers were behind the medical industry just starting to shut up people like Armstrong who was curing THOUSANDS.

[Arrowwind]

This is utter and complete nonsense. This guys information is completely flawed. He has been shown to be a delusional fraud and was unable to prove any of his medical credentials. To say a disease like HIV, AIDS or Polio do not exist is a scandal. People around the world are dying because of these very microorganisms invading there immune systems and practically poking holes in it. HIV is very real, the question of how its very existence has been queried, on how such a complicated virus came about, testimony would suggest it may have been engineered, according to some sources on the Project Camelot interviews, apparently.

I hate seeing posts like this, especially about things witch you have had direct experience to be able to know that they exist, seeing loved ones dying because of them. People should become more sensitive to the things they talk about.

Adi

I agree. and Beauchamp did not say that these micro-organisms do not exist. Nor did he say that communicable diseases do not exist. He said that the terrain is all. A micro-organisms ability to thrive will depend on the nature of the terrain. For many micro-organisms, especailly ones common to humanity, an unhealthy terrain will facilitate them becoming toxic micro-organisms, actually mutating within the body. Such as we have with many common virus including chicken pox, stapah and a variety of pneumoania.

But if a micro-organism is introduced from the outside (like polio, dyptheria, some MRSA, clamydia, HPV, etc etc) some bodies will have a terrain that can deal with it better than other bodies..(ie immune systems)..this is why you have some people dying from polio and others only crippled. And it is why you see post polio syndrome in those who had cases earlier in life. Same deal with chicken pox and shingles. I too believe that HIV is a real thing. I have seen quite a few people die of it, or rather the AIDS complex. Always there was a communicable trail. It did not just appear without that trail.
I never feared caring for these people once they figured out its nature. All that was requried was gloves and only for certain aspects of care.

There are people willing to confound every topic, and paid shills abound. Im not saying that anyone here on this thread is such but I think they have been listening to the wrong people.

[Adi]

Comment Deleted

[sigma6]

Sorry I don't think that is a good idea, and I wish I could say you have anything valid to say, but that would be a lie for me to do so.

If you are too sensitive then you shouldn't be posting on this site. This isn't about sensitivity. It's about sharing information that might save peoples lives... If you know there are trolls and infiltrators on this site and all you do is exactly what they do which is constantly keep trying to take the focus away from the topic of the thread and focus on your "sensitivity" then it is impossible to differentiate you from any other infiltrators... This isn't vulgar (but nice try) it is about waking people up to the TRUTH.

Is there anybody on this forum who DOESN'T think there are any infiltrators????

And they always do the same thing, first focus on their personal emotional subjective sensitivity, then make a comment of ridicule, (this guy is an established and highly educated microbiological researcher...) and then repeatedly bang on ANYTHING other then the actual topic matter... and now you are trying to "fish" other people in... have you ever considered that you are making yourself look like nothing more then a detractor????

I am all for sensitivity, but this thread topic was not started for that purpose.

[ThePythonicCow]

You certainly do make valid points. Some of your statments do not have much substance to them. You do not need to insult anyone by making a point. If someone finds something sensitive, the moral thing to do would be to respect it, not become vulgar and use negative wording like, "BS and giving a s**it*. That is not what the forum is about.

Its surprising that a moderator would be thankful for such negatives in a post on.
Perhaps the moderators were thanking some other aspect of sigma6's post, not that aspect?

[Adi]

Comment Deleted

[sigma6]

My calm is perfectly intact, my comments rational. In my mind I am nipping something in the bud. Imagine where this thread would have gone had I not immediately spoke my truth? Go in peace. Be in peace.

[sigma6]

I wouldn't be surprised if Lanka was attacked by the multi million dollar institutions, If I were him I would be guarding my life.

Author Theorizes 40
Microbiologists Killed Before
Unleashing 'The Ultimate Epidemic'

http://rense.com/general62/microvv.htm

Author Steve Quayle alleges that 40 microbiologist have died under suspicious circumstances in the last four years -- most of them specializing in vaccines and bio-weapons research. The deaths include stabbings, drownings, plane crashes and hit-and-run crashes. Some were ruled suicides. Theres only been several whove died of natural causes.

Below is a partial list of dead microbiologists and scientists:....

This took all of 10 seconds to find on Google... TIME TO WAKE UP... ... I strongly encourage people to be not so 'sensitive' as to block out the truth...




The mysterious deaths of top microbiologists

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/deadbiologists.html
It all began with Don Wiley.
"... On November 15th, Harvard Professor Don Wiley left a gathering of friends and colleagues some time after 10:30 PM. The next morning, Memphis police found his rental car stopped on a bridge, with a full tank of gas and keys still in the ignition. There was no financial or family trouble. Indeed Wiley was supposed to meet his family at the Memphis airport to continue on to an Icelandic vacation. Neither was there any history of depression or mental illness.

In the report printed in the New York Times on November 27th, the FBI's Memphis office distanced itself from the case saying that the available facts did not add up to a suspicion of foul play. I guess at the FBI it's a perfectly everyday occurrence for a Harvard Professor to stop his rental car on a bridge in the middle of the night before he is supposed to leave for Iceland and just walk away into the Tennessee dark..."

[ThePythonicCow]

If you are too sensitive then you shouldn't be posting on this site.

...
Is there anybody on this forum who doesn't think there are any infiltrators????
Suggesting that others are infiltrators and shouldn't be posting here is creating more distraction :).

The nature and cause(s) of AIDS and other such is a difficult subject, for several reasons. The historical, medical and scientific record of AIDS shows all the signs of being yet another serious scheme to weaken humanity, sicken and kill many humans, and cause dissension and confusion amongst many more. I do not personally know the facts here, so I won't take a position on that.

Please, though, if you want to focus on the complex, deceitful and dastardly history, science and medicine of vaccines, viruses and (so-called) retro-viruses, do so!

This is an interesting, challenging (both due to the complexity and the coverups) topic that it is vital we understand.

Don't rise to the bait (whether intentionally offered or not.) Stay focused on the important topic at hand.


To say a disease like HIV, AIDS or Polio do not exist is a scandal.
As others have already noted above, sigma6 was not denying that there existed diseases so labeled, that are killing and weakening millions. He was reporting on some serious problems with the historical, medical and scientific record of such diseases.

There are such problems, and they are serious, at several levels.

:focus:

P.S. -- I see that while I was writing this, Adi and sigma6 were working things out themselves. Perhaps I should not have posted this.

[karelia]

One pattern I've noticed again and again, ad nauseum, is that people mince and twist words when they are not ready to see what's right in front of them; the exactly same behaviour is displayed by paid shills. This thread isn't about emotion; it's about science and the fact that we've been had in this corner of science just as with any other. And if we want to dig up the truth, we won't find it by making accusations or claims without references. If we do it, it puts us in the same league as Paul Offit, and I'm sure we can do better. A lot better.

I was lucky enough to attend a lecture by Stefan Lanka just over ten years ago. It was fascinating. What convinced me that Lanka is the real deal, aside from gut feeling, was the way he conducted himself. There were a couple of "health professionals" in the audience who tried their best to throw him off with question they didn't expect him to answer. Throughout, he kept his calm, he continued to be respectful even when an audience member became less than respectful, and he really, really knew what he was talking about. Not only that, but he knows how to explain things without making a layperson feel stupid.

Having experienced harassment myself when I could no longer to keep quiet about the dangers of vaccines and other medical interventions, I'm not one bit surprised that there is a number of shills who do nothing but look for ways to discredit him. They do that with anyone who's getting too close to the truth.

That the entire medical system as it stands now is based on nothing but fraud surely can't come to a surprise to anyone who is a member here. That exactly that system is used to cause disability and death isn't exactly unknown either. Perhaps we can dig a little deeper and figure out all the areas where this kind of abuse takes place.

I don't see the original post as written in stone. To me it reads more like an invitation to get together and figure out the truth. Together.

[sigma6]

Thank you for your contribution karelia, that is absolutely brilliant! and hits the nail on the head...
I just thank God for people like Lanka, that they can get their message out at all. Another spiritual warrior.


And just came across this... imagine the possible scenario, that lead to this scientist's death...

rgbMh-J2XZw

as usual unexplained circumstances, only isolated to him, and top leading 'vaccine' researcher...
I wonder what he knew? what secret did he take to his grave?

[sigma6]

It must be synchronicity day...

And since the issue did come up... I will just go "off topic" this one more time to share this...
A lesson to all, I can only go by what I perceive/intuit, ask questions, and consider all the information on an ongoing basis. But this issue is REAL... I haven't gone over this site, because for me it's a no brainer. (but I do intend to... another item on the list...)

But here is a link to a post, apparently... started by someone WHO WAS PAID to be a detractor, so hey if you are looking for a little part time income you can talk to arrowwind... (just kidding arrowwind, slap me on the wrist)
How To Know a Shill and a Troll
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54798-How-To-Know-a-Shill-and-a-Troll&p=623257&viewfull=1#post623257
And to be honest I have NOT read this post completely yet, I don't know if I will agree with everything in there or what MY interpretation will be... but there you have it...

[Arrowwind]

.
But here is a link to a post, apparently... started by someone WHO WAS PAID to be a detractor, so hey if you are looking for a little part time income you can talk to arrowwind... (just kidding arrowwind, slap me on the wrist)...
:fish:

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

off topic: gifted children have a higher incidence of allergy to include vaccine reactions.

[Arrowwind]

Well when I went searching for photographs of virus I found a whole bunch and from different sources. Heres on link. I just dont know how you can say that virus are not real.
http://www.virology.net/Big_Virology/BVDNAherpes.html#alpha (http://www.virology.net/Big_Virology/BVDNAherpes.html#alpha)

Saying that virus is not real is not enough. You have to prove it. If you study or even just observe how viral diseases move through a population you know its real even if you cant see it. Ive been around enough chicken pox epidemics to know and clearly people had this way firgured out about the contagion of virus works long ago. You only need to follow the documented trail of the disease. And clearly with flu, if you stay home and away from people who have the flu you will never get the flu. Its not an imaginary disease.


I also believe that the premise upon which vaccination was developed is correct in some aspects anyway. The body knows how to develop its immune system when exposed to a microbe or any foreign antigen...that is if the system is pretty healthy.
this is why kids generally only get chicken pox once.
this is why people only got measles once.
this is why people only got small pox once, if they survived it.

Vaccination or innoculation (they are slightly different) is exposing a possible host to a disease in small quantity or in slightly altered form to stimulate an immune respones. Vaccination was a term developed out of the cow pox specifically for small pox... vaca is a word for cow. Conventional vaccinations are damaging because they overwhelm the immune system and bring about too strong a disease upon which the immune system struggles to cure. Of course these days all these vaccinations are loaded with other toxic crap and resemble nothing akin to the original innocculation principles and present more than one disease at a time,, like monkey virus smv 40, metal toxicity, and many other foreign protiens that the body will react to.. but homeoapthy can do it without all the added trash and in such a miniscule dose that the diease runs its course and is not even noticed. There will be no reaction. and when the actual disease does come around the person will not get it or they will get a very mild form becasue the body is already familiar with it.

Homeopaths have been doing homoepathic vaccination or innoculation is probably a better term, for many many years. and that is exposing a potential host to the diease in a minescule homeoapthic preparation. way diluted and potenized. The body responds to this exposure by amping up its immmune system in a very specific way relative to that disease.

The basic premise works in a number of different applications for different kinds of disease, including herbs.. I used pine tree preparations to cure my mountain cedar allergy. Some people take miniscule amounts of poison ivy over a period of time to desentize to that plant poison.

I dont approve of conventional vaccination and I dont support their use in general. But homeopathic vaccination has never shown any ill effect and has a documented record of helping people prevent getting the targeted disease.

[sigma6]

off topic: gifted children have a higher incidence of allergy to include vaccine reactions.

That has some potential... what exactly does it mean though? that is a study? of correlation between gifted children and allergies? and not getting the grammar of "to include vaccine reactions..."? - give us some more context there Tesla... anything vaccine related is on topic, sky's the limit...

that's another big issue, the children suffer, if they would only make ALL the RELEVANT Statistics available, there would be no "controversy" The FACTS would speak for themselves. That's why they have refused (or never bothered to collect teh date) and tried to hide this for the last 80 years... I read somewhere 80% of all antibiotics sold goes into animal feed, then the children in schools are targeted for vaccines, then young girls with that gardisil, now there looking at double dosing, with money bribes all the way down the line. Whoever is behind this is the dirtiest of the dirtiest... making money on protection against something that has not been proven to be properly assessed let alone seen through any instrumentation with the naked eye. And hiding this fact for over 80 years.

This is where they must have got the idea for the war on Terror.

A WAR on ANYTHING CREATES the thing that is being fought against.

Infer no opponent. And then when someone sneaks up and tries to attack you. Your balance will be true.

[sigma6]

Saying that virus is not real is not enough. You have to prove it.

Let me get this straight it is up to us to prove that something that has never been isolated under an electron microscope in over 80 years, according to one of the remaining molecular biologists not mysteriously murdered, needs to be proven? That what cannot be found needs to proven it truly doesn't exist as purported? Whaaaa? And to whom?

Let me guess... to all the corporations who are making millions injecting mercury, and a dozen other poisons into people, thousands upon thousands whom are becoming permanently damaged, while the corporations pull the plug on autism research, http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54762-WARNING--H1N1-Flu-Shot-Contains&p=625109&viewfull=1#post625109 while at the same time making deals with governments to avoid any liability?

Are these the people we need to prove that what we can't find doesn't really exist?

Could that be the most "shill like" example of twisting it "a** backwards"? Are you just providing another text book example of how how counter intel operates.

Now correct my logic anyone, but wouldn't the onus be on the people who have been making billions off of selling these Russian roulette, slow death, debilitator needle shots?... The articles on the damaging side effects are now in the thousands... the children in the millions and this has been recorded in literature (known) since the beginning of the century as recorded. (not new)


And then there is the subtle confusion you are trying to draw between homeopathy and vaccination. Two totally different applications. Aside from the fact that Homeopaths would be outraged at such a comparison. I will ask anyone who hasn't been to your post. To go there and check some of what you said and ask themselves if you are in fact just applying the same thing here...

Arrowwind, excuse me for asking, but are you for real? I found your "coming out post" vindicating to all the people who have a hard time believing there are full time shills, but I wonder how much information you left out... nor did I say I completely buy into all of it, nor am I saying I am 100% on your motivations for doing so...

I couldn't get through that initial post without a dozen or so alarm bells, all we know is you got "outed" and now you are here pre-emptively "speaking out", and that 'supposedly' you were not a shill here, just over there... I am not going to pretend I am convinced.

And I do find it odd (that you of all people) would show up, immediately after putting Adi to bed... in wrestling I think they call that "tag teaming" Did you cover that in your explanations?

[sigma6]

http://rense.com/1.imagesH/h1n1splash.jpg


And Mercola has an article that shows getting a vaccine is NOT the same as actually being exposed to the real disease and building a real immunity.

And people who get sick and die from the actual disease, would in ALL likelihood, die from the same exposure with the vaccine, since their immunological system has been compromised further. THE EVIDENCE is overwhelming now that for the first time in 80 years the first studies are finally being done... taking vaccines is causing the increases in illness.

[Referee]

Sorry I don't think that is a good idea, and I wish I could say you have anything valid to say, but that would be a lie for me to do so.

If you are too sensitive then you shouldn't be posting on this site. This isn't about sensitivity. It's about sharing information that might save peoples lives... If you know there are trolls and infiltrators on this site and all you do is exactly what they do which is constantly keep trying to take the focus away from the topic of the thread and focus on your "sensitivity" then it is impossible to differentiate you from any other infiltrators... This isn't vulgar (but nice try) it is about waking people up to the TRUTH.

Is there anybody on this forum who DOESN'T think there are any infiltrators????


And they always do the same thing, first focus on their personal emotional subjective sensitivity, then make a comment of ridicule, (this guy is an established and highly educated microbiological researcher...) and then repeatedly bang on ANYTHING other then the actual topic matter... and now you are trying to "fish" other people in... have you ever considered that you are making yourself look like nothing more then a detractor????

I am all for sensitivity, but this thread topic was not started for that purpose.

I am Glad some one spoke up on this.......

[sigma6]

20 TIMES the Risk of Autism When You Make This Choice...

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/11/04/are-unvaccinated-children-healthier.aspx

U.S. children are expected to get 48 doses of 14 vaccines by the time they're just 6 years old (or 49 doses if you count the one that unborn babies are given in utero when their mothers are given a flu shot during pregnancy).

By age 18, federal public health officials say they should have gotten a total of 69 doses of 16 vaccines from day of birth to age 18.

This "prescription" is supposed to keep children healthy and free of disease, but, incredible as it may sound, no large, properly designed scientific study has ever proven the current childhood vaccine schedule to be safe and effective in keeping children healthy.

[ So TRILLIONS in profits over 80 years and NO statistical PROOF, NOTHING IN 80 YEARS! is arrowwind going to suggest we should "prove" that it doesn't work first and just keep jabbing and charging $2000 a head until then? LOL (see how that works?)]

The cost to give your child every government recommended vaccine in 1985 when I started practice was about $80.

Today, largely because in the increase in the number of vaccines, plus general cost increases, that cost has risen to $2,200.

[that's a 2750% cost increase, what would be considered a killing in a stock investment]

This is an ENORMOUS increase, and you can begin to imagine the amount of revenue that is being generated from mandating that every child receive dozens of doses of vaccines throughout childhood.

It seems painfully obvious that in order to justify the expense and the risk of side effects inherent in the crowded U.S. vaccination schedule, it would have to be proven that all this vaccination is actually safe for every child and contributes to better individual and public health than receiving far fewer vaccines.

The only way to do this would be to compare the health of vaccinated children with that of unvaccinated children, and see which group fares better. But such a common-sense study comparing the health outcomes of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children has never been done in the United States to prove the safety and effectiveness of the childhood vaccine schedule!

[Arrowwind]

And then there is the subtle confusion you are trying to draw between homeopathy and vaccination. Two totally different applications. Aside from the fact that Homeopaths would be outraged at such a comparison. I will ask anyone who hasn't been to your post. To go there and check some of what you said and ask themselves if you are in fact just applying the same thing here...

Arrowwind, excuse me for asking, but are you for real? I found your "coming out post" vindicating to all the people who have a hard time believing there are full time shills, but I wonder how much information you left out... nor did I say I completely buy into all of it, nor am I saying I am 100% on your motivations for doing so...

I couldn't get through that initial post without a dozen or so alarm bells, all we know is you got "outed" and now you are here pre-emptively "speaking out", and that 'supposedly' you were not a shill here, just over there... I am not going to pretend I am convinced.

And I do find it odd (that you of all people) would show up, immediately after putting Adi to bed... in wrestling I think they call that "tag teaming" Did you cover that in your explanations?

Now that you are done ranking on me lets get down to business.

My views on homeopathy are not unknown regarding its ability to work in a vaccination or a prophylactic manner towards specific diseases. Many homeopaths around the world use this method of innoculation and they have been making such comparison for many years to vaccination. I will refer you to the work of Iasic Golden. Many homeoapths work along his principles and it is more used in India where homeopaths are much more common and sometimes found working in leading hospitals, they are so common.

It seems to me that you are not understanding the premise nor principles of homeopathy and the variety of applications that are used for diluted and potentized materials..

Homeopathic vaccination or prophylaxis, is based on the premise that small amounts of a disease material when potentized and diluted then applied to the body will stimulate the immune system to defend itself against said disease and prevent infection if the epidemic should impinge upon the individual. ... esentially it is the same core premise as standard vaccination except allopaths (conventional doctors) use the gross matter of disease to make the innoculation and homeopaths use the disease matter in a homeopathic preparation. Such remedies are called nosodes. Some nosodes are used in specific applications to target the prevention of disease and at other times they will be used to cure an active diseases that appear similar to the specific nosode remedy.

Follow the links on this page for further information

http://www.healthsalon.org/195/homeopathic-vaccination-or-prophylaxis-per-issac-golden/


http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Homoeopathic-Alternatives-Immunisation-Curtis/dp/1874581029/ref=sr_1_2?
ie=UTF8&qid=1359471822&sr=8-2&keywords=handbook+to+homeopathic+immunizations

http://vaccinefree.wordpress.com/

http://www.whale.to/vaccines/hom.html

and here Mike Adams from Natural News explains it in detail
http://www.naturalnews.com/035737_nosodes_homeopathy_vaccines.html
and
http://www.naturalnews.com/032176_vaccines_alternatives.html

I might have to come back and fix these links, not sure how well they will work and I will add other links if I come across them.

So as I said the premise to conventional vaccines is essentially correct although severely misdeveloped and misapplied with lots of added toxins that confound the body and its ability to respond. That being said, few allopathic vaccinations work and only work in selected individuals whos system can tolerate the large dose and more recently those who can tolerate the toxins, which is essentially no one.

Also I would add here that to receive the flu after a conventional flu vaccine also follows homeoapthic principle. An administration of a disease to the body both in allopathic prepration and homeopathic prepration will cause the advent of the disease, most times in a reduced less potent form than if they had naturally acquired the disease. With homeopathy this is commonly seen and simply called a healing reaction, as well as a sign that the remedy is working. Most often the healing reaction is so slight it goes by unnoticed. Other times it can flame quite strongly, especially in classically applied remedies, not so much at all with homeopathic innoculation. I have never seen it but it is possible in highly sensitive people.

Homoepathic vaccination or prophylaxis can not only help prevent those diseases commonly asserted to be caused by virus and bacteria the but also, the classical applications of homeopathy can sometimes cure damages caused by conventional vaccines, including ADD, ADHD and Austism and other disease pictures.

I will continue to assert that virus has been seen with electron microscope. In homeopathy virus has been recognized for a very long time even without photographs. Virus has a signature and its work upon the population can be tracked through the historical documentations of contagon of epidemics through the population.

Conventional medicine has not had near the success in treating anything with a bacterial cause with their attempts at vaccination compared to the homeopaths. If you hadn't noticed most conventional vaccinations deal with virus diseases, not bacterial. But with homeopathy they have success in treating the bacterial diseases as well as the viral.

That some bozo biologist does not believe in virus does not discount the 200 years of success of homeopathy in treating viral disease. You dont have to see it to know that it is there. It is recognized by its signature and its behavior in the populaiton.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

I am not sure where or why this thread is going, but i found it again finally,
and wanted to see what was up.

Whether or not the initial info was true, this thread was thought provoking.

And since my blog was deleted, I don't have access to all of my notes about autism.
However, there is a school for the gifted (in the midwest US) where a PhD discussed the increased trouble her clients/students (kids who scored like 150-200 on stanford binet) had with allergies like Autism, Food Allergy, Skin Issues.

All of the above can be associated with vaccine adverse reaction.
Vaccinosis is the word.

[karelia]

<snipped>
That some bozo biologist does not believe in virus does not discount the 200 years of success of homeopathy in treating viral disease. You dont have to see it to know that it is there. It is recognized by its signature and its behavior in the populaiton.


That "bozo biologist" is very aware of homoeopathy, actually. And I can't help but wonder how you even mention virus and homeopathy in the same sentence. Homoeopathy is vibrational medicine, VERY UNLIKE the germ theory, on which the virus theory is based.

[Referee]

<snipped>
That some bozo biologist does not believe in virus does not discount the 200 years of success of homeopathy in treating viral disease. You dont have to see it to know that it is there. It is recognized by its signature and its behavior in the populaiton.


That "bozo biologist" is very aware of homoeopathy, actually. And I can't help but wonder how you even mention virus and homeopathy in the same sentence. Homoeopathy is vibrational medicine, VERY UNLIKE the germ theory, on which the virus theory is based.

I very much believe that medicine will turn in this direction Vibrational in the near future!

[karelia]

I very much believe that medicine will turn in this direction Vibrational in the near future!

We can hope...

[Arrowwind]

<snipped>
That some bozo biologist does not believe in virus does not discount the 200 years of success of homeopathy in treating viral disease. You dont have to see it to know that it is there. It is recognized by its signature and its behavior in the populaiton.


That "bozo biologist" is very aware of homoeopathy, actually. And I can't help but wonder how you even mention virus and homeopathy in the same sentence. Homoeopathy is vibrational medicine, VERY UNLIKE the germ theory, on which the virus theory is based.


then clearly you never studied homeopathic nosodes.. i made reference to it.
You say vibrational but vibrational to what?
The germ therory is relevant in part. Germs do exist and they can impinge on people who's immune system don't know how to adapt and eliminate the germ.
Hahnemann recoginized the contageon of disease. There are a whole slew of homoepathic nosodes made from the disease matter of what is typically called viral disease.,or bacterial or other. Hahnemanns theory revovled around miasmic condiitons.. this artilce details his thinking at the time. Miasmic covered those situalions that today is recognized as bacterial, viral or other type sof microbes.
Virus is a very old term to try to contain a picture of the root of disease, some diseases anyway
http://nationalcenterforhomeopathy.org/content/the-development-of-miasmatic-theory-from-hahnemann-to-the-present-day-part-1-0

[sigma6]

I can only encourage people to see exactly what you are doing... and to make their own determination...

How To Know a Shill, to quote from your own post...
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54798-How-To-Know-a-Shill-and-a-Troll&p=623257&viewfull=1#post623257

"which looks legitimate and is towards the truth is made - but the critical point is that it has a VERY WEAK PREMISE without substantive proof to back the posting."

"my job was “meme-patrol.” This was pretty simple and repetitive; it involved countering memes and introducing new memes, and didn’t demand much in-depth knowledge of the subject. Mostly just repetitive posting based on the dialogue pairs in the “Strat” section of the first binder."

"These strategies included various forms of personal attacks, complaining to the forum moderators..." (exactly what Adi did... as well... right on cue, fortunately Paul didn't get there in time to play to the "victimhood"(lol))

- Want a "Weak Premise"?...
Ok, how about this, try to associate Vaccines with Homeopathy, and pretend that the two are the same, when they are clearly not and just repeat it over.

- How is this for a misleading meme...
"Homeopathic Vaccination"???? (can anyone say oxymoron?)
And the subtle suggestion that Vaccines are Homeopathy? is UTTERLY FALSE, albeit subtle, but FUNDAMENTALLY FALSE. I noticed you carefully placed Isaac Golden's site first... that is the ONLY one that actually uses the OXYMORONIC "MEME" "Homepathic Vaccination??". And Golden? why does that sound like a "stage" name?... (and the site does have a 'technical' feel to it... nice touch)




And I checked all the other links and they ALL suggest the OPPOSITE of what you are proposing?? (ie. the idea that vaccinations are the same as homeopathy?) Instead they speak about Homeopathy in CONTRAST to vaccination or immunization. Were you hoping the majority of readers might only check "Golden's" web page and be "mesmerized" by Mr. "Golden's" bastardization of the word? I hate to say it but this has the same feel as when you were trying to suggest that people who can't find real evidence of isolated virus's have to PROVE that they don't EXIST, when in REALITY, and common sense it is the Corporations pocketing billions that have the ONUS to prove the permanent damage and death they are causing is justified...) hmm?? ...so detailed and focused on one end and then MAJOR flaws in LOGIC on the other end... ???

To repeat: All the other articles (that YOU posted) clearly DIFFERENTIATE and suggest ALTERNATIVES to VACCINATION...!?

- To quote NATURAL NEWS LINK FOR EXAMPLE:(Your links!)
"Many veterinarians agree that vaccination is one of the most harmful things we do to our animals because of the severity of potential reactions, both short and long term, many of which are fatal.
Why do we vaccinate? We're afraid our children and or our animals will get certain diseases. If we were offered a single vaccine to protect the ones we love against any possible ailment, we would welcome it without question. However we have to ask ourselves, "What are we doing to the whole animal, and their whole immune system? Why are, dogs and cats becoming more unhealthy, living shorter life spans, and having smaller litters? New diseases have appeared even since we started vaccinating so heavily





- Are there alternatives to vaccinating against specific diseases?
If you feel your dog or cat needs immunization but are now fearful of conventional vaccines, see ."http://www.naturalnews.com/032708_pet_vaccines_scam.html
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/035737_nosodes_homeopathy_vaccines.html#ixzz2JPlrVIwq

- Another Mercola site, some of the best research in my opinion...
Analysis Finds Flu Vaccine Efficacy Lacking, as Flu Vaccines are Suspended Across Europe and Canada
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/11/06/flu-vaccine-efficacy.aspx
All Vaccines Cause Inflammation, Can Alter Immune Response

It's like driving through a red light... how many times can you do it before you end up paying the consequences, and why even risk it in the first place? Especially when there are so many alternatives to dangerous vaccinations....like HOMEOPATHY!

"You also need to understand that vaccines can be immune suppressive – that is, they can suppress your immune system, which may not return to normal for weeks to months. Here are just some of the other ways vaccines can impair and alter your immune response... see below"

- Some components in vaccines are neurotoxic and may cause brain and immune dysfunction, including heavy metals such as mercury preservatives and aluminum adjuvants.

- The lab altered bacteria and viruses in vaccines may also affect your immune response in a negative way.

- Vaccines may alter your t-cell function and lead to chronic illness.

- Vaccines can trigger allergies, autoimmune or neurological disorders"

[sigma6]

But please read about bacteriophages, a class of virus that lives in E Coli and Y Pestis, etc.

Exactly what I have been suggesting they are more related to bacteria... Not a "virus"....



WE HAVE PROOF AND EVIDENCE OF BACTERIA. VIRUSES ARE SCIENTIFICALLY STILL IN THE THEORY STAGE... Now consider that this fact alone has been suppressed...

and combined with the AMOUNT OF MONEY BEING SPENT DESPITE ALL THE PERMANENT HEALTH DAMAGE AND DEATH.

How else does one interpret what is REALLY GOING ON. And Bill Gate's involvement is the last straw for me. People have to get past the idea of judging someone by the amount of money in his bank account. Or at least consider it to be an inverse relationship...

[Arrowwind]

Clearly I have stated my case. I never said conventional vaccinations and homeopathic vaccination or prophylaxis was the same and I delineated how they were different.

What is the same is the premise that an exposure to a disease pathogen will stimulate the immune system to foritfy itself. Conventional vaccination does it incorrectly and dangerously.

this page explains the use of Morbillimum, a homeoapthic prophylaxis or homeopathic vaccination, this by an old time homeopath Allen Clay. scroll down half way and see how morbillinum is used. It a nosode made from the measles disease. It is used to prevent measles and cure some cases. Issac Golden, a well respected homeopath gives it prophylactically to childen to fortify them against getting measles. This system is more ued in Europe than in the USA. Especially prominent in India. So this has been used for quite a while by homeopaths. Actually this page shows a number of leading nosodes that homeoapths will use either to prevent disease, or to cure disease. Most of the nosodes are capable of curing diseases other that the one the nosode was made from. You dont need to have tuberuclosis to be cured by tuberculinum. Some are made from dieases of bacterial origin others from viral... but wait! you said theres no such thing a a virus... oh well. Throw out a couple hundred years of homeopathy and their explorations into miasma.
http://www.homeoint.org/cazalet/allen/nosodes.htm

Here is a more recent website describing recommended dosages for the homeopathic prophylaxis or vaccination for measles. Some homeopaths call it homeopathic vaccination and others call it prophylaxis
http://vaccinefree.wordpress.com/measles-alternativeprevention-mn/

If anyone really wants to know about this I have provided key words, and links.
your study could start with Hahnemann and Kent and their writings. After you plow through the works of these two men then I can advise about 20 other authors so that you will become aware of homeoapthy and all its uses and applications. You can find most of their books on Amazon probably. Be prepared to spend over $300 as Id did for only 20. My personal library consistes of over 70 books, about 30 of them reqired for my training, but one thing leads to another.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tyler_Kent
http://www.wholehealthnow.com/bios/samuel-hahnemann.html
Once you are done with that then you are ready to really start learning.

Shirleys cafe has some beginners info on nosodes and homeopathic vaccination for beginners.

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/nosodes.htm
.

thank you for this exchange. I brought me to some very interesting work on flu treatment from a Homeoapth in Brazil that I tucked in my file for a rainy day.

[sigma6]

'from same Mercola site:

This woman is permanently damaged
(i.e. she decided to drive through that red light...)

BRcZZROphLM

Nursing Professor and mother and grandmother, 1 of 8 people with Guillaine-Barre syndrome (GBS) in the same hospital! (think of the implications of this statistic) And her condition was reported only because her daughter was the one who reported it. The exposure of this story is evidence of systematic cover up (huge liability issues) and suppression. There is evidence to show this has been going on since the beginning of the century!

According to the daughter the hospital tried to test for every possible known cause and couldn't find anything (duh...) Then and only then, did they finally admit they have SEEN THIS BEFORE!... And that there were 7 other cases happening at the same hospital!

Apparently it never gets reported because "they are too busy, and there is too much paperwork" to ever get around to it... (are you believing this!?.... Vaccine deaths have been going on since the introduction of vaccines, it is only being suppressed from the public and the media with the exception of websites like www.Mercola.com (http://www.Mercola.com) ... and a few other doctors that have broken ranks and come forward...

[sigma6]

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[MissParker]

I am a huge fan of dr. Lanka!!!

I had a déjà-vu when reading Adi's comments, because I know an Adi as well, he writes the same allopathic bull**** and is a huge pro vaxxer, only he's Romanian - but who knows, maybe he infiltrated this forum as well ;-)