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View Full Version : Did Corvids (Crows and Ravens) Comprise the First Earthly Civilization? Creation Myths and Musings.



Tesla_WTC_Solution
4th February 2013, 18:45
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raven_in_Creation
http://www.indigenouspeople.net/creatlingit.htm
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/settlement/kids/021013-2061.2-e.html
http://www.tahltan.org/creation-story/raven-creation-story
http://seattletimes.com/html/picturethis/2017734021_symphonyofcrows.html
http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/biology/jbasil/documents/CrowApeCognition.pdf



No one knows just how the story of Raven really begins, so each starts from the point where he does know it. Here it was always begun in this way. Raven was first called Kit-ka'ositiyi-qa-yit ("Son of Kit-ka'ositiyi-qa"). When his son was born, Kit-ka'ositiyi-qa tried to instruct him and train him in every way and, after he grew up, told him he would give him strength to make a world. After trying in all sorts of ways, Raven finally succeeded. Then there was no light in this world, but it was told him that far up the Nass was a large house in which some one kept light just for himself.

Raven and the Creation

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Raven-and-the-first-men.jpg/300px-Raven-and-the-first-men.jpg

Once upon a time, the earth was barren and void, without form. The Bible and many other books besides describe a time when the "spirit of God hovered over the face of the deep". Ranging from tales of Sky Woman, Raven; Odin and his Ravens; Noah and his raven too, there is always water, and always a flood, before there is life. And Raven is part of that life somehow.

Do you think perhaps there was a time in earth's history where ravens saw intelligent mammals wiped out by disaster, or maybe that they co-existed with now extinct lizards and dinosaurs? Who can know?


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSpg5CAJ3M6v0GfsTgk7NJfnqAAL2RvZ2uNWKKCvMZcAnPQEhK7Rw

Sky Woman falls through a hole in the sky in her tale. I don't remember all of it, but there was a holy tree and for some reason it gets uprooted. Sky woman falls asleep and then plunges through the hole toward the ocean below. She is caught by a giant turtle. Also there is a myth where Raven pulled man out of a clam shell. I think this means that people started eating the diet of fish and clams eaten by the birds and became more intelligent.

In the Odin mythos, Hugin and Munin are the spirit ravens who sit at his shoulders and communicate all the wisdom from the far ranges of the earth, and from the spirits of the dead. There is a flood mentioned in Nordic legends, where giants and humans fought against each other, and the giants perished in a sea of blood.

During the time of Noah, the only known survivors of the Mediterranean region (that I know of) were Noah and his immediate family. We know that there were other arks and ships, but Noah was pretty much the only game in his town by the end of it. He sent a raven out to scout the land, to see if the water had receded from the face of the earth.


http://www.tahltan.org/sites/tahltan.org/files/styles/full_content/public/Image/creation/Screen%20Shot%202012-07-19%20at%209.27.35%20AM.png

Now isn't that something, not one or two but three raven stories. Oh, I forgot the Bible said that birds and fish evolved at the same time (or were created, either way is fine).


Social Animals

I posit at this point that Corvids, or crows and ravens, as we call them, were the first extremely social intelligent bird species, followed very closely by aquatic mammals (dolphins and whales). They were capable of fishing and utilizing the dry land as well. They played with toys (anything in the environment), perhaps even used tools (stones), and had a social order. They might even have a language and the capacity to tell and remember stories. If only we could crack the code and know what the ravens know!

There was a video and article recently (well, maybe within the last 12 months) featured in the Seattle Times, showing a huge flock of crows flying near treetops by the water. They were very beautiful to watch, this strange species that is a paradox of algorithm and intelligence. The first minds.



A reader called in and told one of The Seattle Times photo editors about the incredible number of crows that were flying around Emerald Downs at dusk every night. I had just started working the night shift and when there weren't any basketball games to shoot, I thought I'd check it out. I wasn't expecting the sky to turn black with birds as the reader had predicted, but what I saw absolutely amazed me. About 30 minutes before dusk, a tiny group of birds flew in from the right, a larger group flew in from the left, and then more from the north and south. Up, down, sideways and back again. I watched but never saw any of them fly into each other -- and they flew fast. It was an incredible sight. I shot still photos the first night but went back a few more times to shoot video. Adam Sedgley, the Seattle Audubon Science Manager, confirmed that at they were indeed crows and agreed to narrate the video I shot. He said that when the birds got together at night, the skinny ones would check out the fatter ones and then follow them the next morning because they obviously knew the best eating spots. I don't know who called to let us know about the crows, but I will always be grateful for that call. Pure beauty in nature.

--Ellen Banner, Seattle Times photographer

I could be really off in my estimation, but for some reason, humans tend to agree that ravens were linked either to creation or to human survival. It could be that ancient humans migrated and followed the birds to places where food could be found. The birds might have shown them agriculture. Who can know? Not we!


Crows Play and Talk

I have seen crows playing with baby toys in my yard. They make sounds like chickens, bring their babies to eat here, and are very friendly. They even follow us from the roof to the power lines over our car when we leave, hoping for a snack. Although they are a hunted pest species in farmland areas, in the city they are a fairly welcome carrion cleaning garbage eating living trash can and a source of entertainment too.

Not sure what else to write at the moment, but I wanted to share this thought about the intelligence and social aptitude of these incredible birds, and the idea that perhaps ravens and crows and not humans should be credited with founding the first society, and perhaps even a civilization. Because within their ranks they are civil and communicative. Unlike other birds.


http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mavuytT9VU1rhqivso1_500.jpg

I hope that more people can start to value crows and ravens not as a source of food or target practice or anger on the farm, but because they are intelligent like we are.

Spiral
4th February 2013, 19:46
Ravens are a very unusual & special creature, not only are they very psychic, but they can learn to speak human words, and unlike a lot of other birds that can do this, they actually understand the meaning of the word.

I once read about a ship captain who had a raven, it knew when his ship was coming back to port, and its favourite passtime was winding up a local dog by calling its name & teasing it.

Tesla_WTC_Solution
4th February 2013, 19:49
Ravens are a very unusual & special creature, not only are they very psychic, but they can learn to speak human words, and unlike a lot of other birds that can do this, they actually understand the meaning of the word.

I once read about a ship captain who had a raven, it knew when his ship was coming back to port, and its favourite passtime was winding up a local dog by calling its name & teasing it.
I really appreciate that story as I didn't know they could actually speak human words. Wow :D

My baby (when he was 8 mos) knew exactly when his dad came home from work.

It's amazing that crows and ravens can do the same thing.

there was a queen in europe whose husband died and a raven came to be her pet, i can't remember which one now...

Spiral
4th February 2013, 20:15
I've just remembered that I had a girlfriend whose family had a jackdaw ( a small corvid with black plumage & bright blue green eyes) they had rescued as a chick, that knew & would call the names of family members & their dogs.

It lived in the woods near their house (when it grew up ) & would pay regular visits, he was a real character.

Tesla_WTC_Solution
5th February 2013, 00:33
I've just remembered that I had a girlfriend whose family had a jackdaw ( a small corvid with black plumage & bright blue green eyes) they had rescued as a chick, that knew & would call the names of family members & their dogs.

It lived in the woods near their house (when it grew up ) & would pay regular visits, he was a real character.

that must have been so cute! green eyes :)

there was a female grouse that used to come down off the hill and sit on my grandfather's chest when he worked under the farm truck.
can you believe that? he thinks its mate died.

Rich
5th February 2013, 00:57
I find them very interesting too.
I'm not sure if we can compare the intelligence of other animals to humans...(I find it a rather arrogant thing to do, because other types of animals might be smarter in ways that we are oblivious to).
But many birds seem to be very smart from a human point of view, I taught a chicken to respond to her name in 1 or 2 days.

Tesla_WTC_Solution
5th February 2013, 01:15
I agree with you that other animals might surpass us.

Dolphins for example, aren't their brains a lot wider than ours?
They have things going on that we don't understand.

Rich
5th February 2013, 01:43
I don't know how much the brain plays a part in the processing of information. I think the concept of intelligence is very vague.
Also to compare intelligence seems hard because it always depends on the environment, one in which smell plays a vital part; dogs and pigs are obviously smarter than humans, it always depends on the situations. I read that many animals have telepathic abilities, another way in which they could get more information in than most of todays humans is that many of them are supposedly more attuned to their instincts so they are more likely to avoid danger. I read that wild animals fled way before the big 2004 tsunami hit the coast (haven't checked the sources but just remember reading that).

Tesla_WTC_Solution
5th February 2013, 01:46
that bit about the tsunami is incredible. a town of people in india did that once, they all ran up a hill away from the buildings right before the quake.
about 1,000 people in the book i read ran out of town. LOL


p.s. there must have been a big reason the natives revered animal spirits like wolf, bear, raven, etc. chinese revered even the rat and pig, in their calendar,
everything has a place in life!

markpierre
5th February 2013, 01:46
This is great Tesla. It seems so reasonable. Crows are the only civilization I see where I live. The people are all pretty chaotic.

My astrologer who is also my friend, has a big male Kookaburra that comes and goes from his house. He sits at the kitchen table and on the back of the couch.
Over the years he's brought the yearly broods indoors with him, and though the young ones and the female have never developed quite the same familiarity,
they seem comfortable enough and have never caused any mess or commotion.
It's weird sitting a meter from a big bird like that, who seems to be judging whether you're a worthy guest and welcome there. Or if your fingers look like food.
It's hard to say who's house it is.

Tesla_WTC_Solution
5th February 2013, 01:49
This is great Tesla. It seems so reasonable. Crows are the only civilization I see where I live. The people are all pretty chaotic.

My astrologer who is also my friend, has a big male Kookaburra that comes and goes from his house. He sits at the kitchen table and on the back of the couch.
Over the years he's brought the yearly broods indoors with him, and though the young ones and the female have never developed quite the same familiarity,
they seem comfortable enough and have never caused any mess or commotion.
It's weird sitting a meter from a big bird like that, who seems to be judging whether you're a worthy guest and welcome there. Or if your fingers look like food.
It's hard to say who's house it is.

that is one of the funniest stories i've read in a long time. and amazing.

i wish i had one of those. they are so cute and LOUD! i feel sorry for the ones in captivity.

what a special relationship they have!

JRS
5th February 2013, 02:37
Edgar Mitchell, former astronaut, sixth man to walk on the moon, and a founder of the Institute of Noetic Sciences claims that a remote healer from Vancouver, Adam aka Dreamhealer, cured him of renal cancer by using remote healing techniques. Adam did his thing in Vancouver to Mitchell in Florida and the cancer on Mitchell's MRI reduced and disappeared from a followup MRI. Previously, when Adam was 14 years old he told his parents that he had to go to an island off British Columbia to meet someone. His parents took him there and Adam claims he met a four foot high "black bird" who helped him develope his healing gift! Go to WWW.Dreamhealer.wordpress.com and search Edgar Mitchell on the site. Interesting! The story about the black bird is in one of his books (available on the site).

Gekko
5th February 2013, 02:44
I really appreciate that story as I didn't know they could actually speak human words. Wow :D

This one is pretty good...

yFXU7o0fYII

markpierre
5th February 2013, 02:45
This is great Tesla. It seems so reasonable. Crows are the only civilization I see where I live. The people are all pretty chaotic.

My astrologer who is also my friend, has a big male Kookaburra that comes and goes from his house. He sits at the kitchen table and on the back of the couch.
Over the years he's brought the yearly broods indoors with him, and though the young ones and the female have never developed quite the same familiarity,
they seem comfortable enough and have never caused any mess or commotion.
It's weird sitting a meter from a big bird like that, who seems to be judging whether you're a worthy guest and welcome there. Or if your fingers look like food.
It's hard to say who's house it is.

that is one of the funniest stories i've read in a long time. and amazing.

i wish i had one of those. they are so cute and LOUD! i feel sorry for the ones in captivity.

what a special relationship they have!

Lol. Cute? The first time I ever saw one was in a cage at a reptile farm in St Augustine Florida in maybe 95?. I thought 'whf?'. It looked surreal. Prehistoric.
Like a T-rex of kingfishers.
Now living with them, (and they are abundant here) seems so normal. The laughter is soothing. And maybe it only seems like it, but often comes when you have a question in your mind
and really need an answer.

Tesla_WTC_Solution
5th February 2013, 21:55
I saw one in a cage in Kentucky, it was huge, granted, but omg I did think it was cute.

we were kids and we handed the bird a penny to play with, got in trouble at the park


LMAO @ a t rex of kingfishers