Split thread - Digression from "One Week With Lakota, Film by RT" [Archive]

View Full Version : Split thread - Digression from "One Week With Lakota, Film by RT"

Rog

17th February 2013, 04:26

spiritguide

17th February 2013, 05:53

We're all in the same boat here, stop kicking the ball into your own teams net.

Did not know teams were divided into colors. Is this something that should be known.

:peace:

WhiteFeather

17th February 2013, 17:35

CdnSirian

17th February 2013, 19:09

Can you guys cool it on the whiteman racism? Nothing turns my stomach more than the "enlightened" rattling on about how demonic whitey is. We were pretty cool too before we were conquered and broken the same exact ways for the exact same reasons. We were just a tad closer to ground-zero and didn't have all the more modern media to record just how bad it got.

We're all in the same boat here, stop kicking the ball into your own teams net.

Thanks for your thoughts here Rog. Im not sure anyone on this thread has admitted to being enlightened or did i miss something? And if you should know, I am 90% caucasion. So I dont think i fall into the category of being a racist on White-Man if thats what you are implying to me. And I do agree...... we are all from the same tribe or boat,,,, if you will.

<~~~~Peace~~~~>
W.f.

I think our current task whether we are enlightened, awake and aware, or simply plugged in to the huge information network, is to avoid the temptation of thinking we're divided. We can be, or we can be humans wanting to be part of the solution. I am assuming that this intent is included in the start of this thread.

If we envision a better future, this would naturally include revising the control/legal conditions for all of us, and the overbearing repression of life on the reservations would be lifted. They could be part of the infrastructure and upgraded living conditions to their specifications. There would be no nasty blackmail like "if you give up your tribal identities and assimilate" we'll pave the roads or whatever.

Whatever resources are at hand (I'm thinking FE) would be shared for land reclamation, restoration, etc. To each regions needs. Hopefully we can get corruption down to a dull roar.

Rog

17th February 2013, 22:12

Can you guys cool it on the whiteman racism? Nothing turns my stomach more than the "enlightened" rattling on about how demonic whitey is. We were pretty cool too before we were conquered and broken the same exact ways for the exact same reasons. We were just a tad closer to ground-zero and didn't have all the more modern media to record just how bad it got.

We're all in the same boat here, stop kicking the ball into your own teams net.

Thanks for your thoughts here Rog. Im not sure anyone on this thread has admitted to being enlightened or did i miss something? And if you should know, I am 90% caucasion. So I dont think i fall into the category of being a racist on White-Man if thats what you are implying to me. And I do agree...... we are all from the same tribe or boat,,,, if you will.

<~~~~Peace~~~~>
W.f.

"Admitted", lol. "Me? Enlightened? God no, I'm not one them."

It's typically implied, many things don't need to be stated to be understood. And I don't care what popsicle flavor you are, that's part of my point. Anybody familiar with the stupidity of racism knows there's plenty of white on white, black on black, red on red, and yellow on yellow to go around. And that wasn't directed at you even though you threw the word on here.

I was peeved that this thread, about one of our many broken and troubled cultures seeking revival almost immediately started spinning into a blame whitey dialogue. Anyone with ANY appreciation for the greater cog movements of our world knows race has nothing to do with what I call the Babylonian march on our world. Other than how easily people allow it to be used against them. Or worse yet, when they do our enemies work for them. Which is why I said this, which seems to have been misinterpreted. :/

We're all in the same boat here, stop kicking the ball into your own teams net.

Did not know teams were divided into colors. Is this something that should be known.

:peace:

Hey brah, thanks for assuming I was being racist. With all due respect and an honest choice of words. Who the **** exactly are you guiding and to where? I was trying to tell people to cool it on the racism and you make the stretch of an assumption that my use of the word team meant white people? And you throw up a cute little brownie points-winning smiley to go along with your unproductive post? I guess you sit with the cool kids here, huh?

spiritguide

18th February 2013, 03:11

We're all in the same boat here, stop kicking the ball into your own teams net.

Did not know teams were divided into colors. Is this something that should be known.

:peace:

Hey brah, thanks for assuming I was being racist. With all due respect and an honest choice of words. Who the **** exactly are you guiding and to where? I was trying to tell people to cool it on the racism and you make the stretch of an assumption that my use of the word team meant white people? And you throw up a cute little brownie points-winning smiley to go along with your unproductive post? I guess you sit with the cool kids here, huh?

Sorry to offend you, just asked for more info about your team quote. I am not brah and the assumptions are all on your part per your retort above. Good luck and peace be with you!

ThePythonicCow

18th February 2013, 07:57

It's typically implied, many things don't need to be stated to be understood. And I don't care what popsicle flavor you are, that's part of my point. Anybody familiar with the stupidity of racism knows there's plenty of white on white, black on black, red on red, and yellow on yellow to go around. And that wasn't directed at you even though you threw the word on here.

I was peeved that this thread, about one of our many broken and troubled cultures seeking revival almost immediately started spinning into a blame whitey dialogue. Anyone with ANY appreciation for the greater cog movements of our world knows race has nothing to do with what I call the Babylonian march on our world. Other than how easily people allow it to be used against them. Or worse yet, when they do our enemies work for them. Which is why I said this, which seems to have been misinterpreted. :/
Please distinguish between (1) us as individuals, (2) us as sharing a common spirit, and (3) us as carriers of various (sometimes seriously poisoned) cultures.

I can jolly well appreciate that those who know of the culture(s) that were found in the native American peoples, before the Americas were overrun by European cultures (mostly conveyed by people with a whiter skin), would be less than pleased with the result. Similarly, many peoples around the world now are less than pleased with what the British-American military/intelligence/financial powers have been delivering world wide, with their weapons of mass destruction and ruin. So am I ... less than pleased. The drones haven't started raining down on North Texas yet, nor has the financial ruin reached full force here yet, so I expect my displeasure will get stronger.

I stand with others, around the world, who are denouncing and resisting what the "Americans" are doing, even as it is obvious I am an American. We recognize the truth and caring in each other personally, and the common spirit we share, even as we agree that the British-American military/intelligence/financial power is hellish.

To repeat myself, Rog, please distinguish between (1) us as individuals, (2) us as sharing a common spirit, and (3) us as carriers of various (sometimes seriously poisoned) cultures.

I get absolutely no impression whatsoever that when others above, who seem to know more than I do of the native American cultures that are now in much ruin, speak of what Whitey did, that they are personally attacking all white people. That is not it at all. I hear immense respect for good people of any appearance, and great pain inflicted by a "Western Civilization" that was mostly conveyed by people such as my own relatives and ancestors.

If they were speaking more with an Aussie accent, I can imagine them saying: "Nothing personal, mate, but that plague your kind brought in really sucks." (Yeah, I'm sure my Aussie slang sucks too.)

Rog

18th February 2013, 20:08

Please distinguish between (1) us as individuals, (2) us as sharing a common spirit, and (3) us as carriers of various (sometimes seriously poisoned) cultures.

Not sure what the context of "us" is here. Unless you're just instructing me on how to post? O.o

I can jolly well appreciate that those who know of the culture(s) that were found in the native American peoples, before the Americas were overrun by European cultures (mostly conveyed by people with a whiter skin), would be less than pleased with the result.

How pleased are they with Montezuma's results? You know, the madman who sacrificed thousands upon thousands for no other reason than maybe the god of war would favor him as he conquered and subjugated neighboring kingdoms into his empire. And he did all this without any pro-tips from whitey.

Similarly, many peoples around the world now are less than pleased with what the British-American military/intelligence/financial powers have been delivering world wide, with their weapons of mass destruction and ruin. So am I ... less than pleased. The drones haven't started raining down on North Texas yet, nor has the financial ruin reached full force here yet, so I expect my displeasure will get stronger.

I stand with others, around the world, who are denouncing and resisting what the "Americans" are doing, even as it is obvious I am an American. We recognize the truth and caring in each other personally, and the common spirit we share, even as we agree that the British-American military/intelligence/financial power is hellish.

Sure you're just giving an example but here it goes again; Do you really think white people, or europeans, or the Brit-Amero mil. complex., or however you want to label it, is doing anything that other people wouldn't? The main problem with the individuals in this world that we consider the human species is that 99% are trying to make somebody else the boogeyman. And it's too convenient to pick the biggest guy on the block to villianize instead of looking in the mirror.

To repeat myself, Rog, please distinguish between (1) us as individuals, (2) us as sharing a common spirit, and (3) us as carriers of various (sometimes seriously poisoned) cultures.

I get absolutely no impression whatsoever that when others above, who seem to know more than I do of the native American cultures that are now in much ruin, speak of what Whitey did, that they are personally attacking all white people. That is not it at all. I hear immense respect for good people of any appearance, and great pain inflicted by a "Western Civilization" that was mostly conveyed by people such as my own relatives and ancestors.

If they were speaking more with an Aussie accent, I can imagine them saying: "Nothing personal, mate, but that plague your kind brought in really sucks." (Yeah, I'm sure my Aussie slang sucks too.)

You quoted it atleast, referencing some ambiguity in meaning, but there it is again. With the sorcery of words you're taking a state of mind and action avaliable to all sorts of minds and dropping it down on a specific group of people like a sack of bricks. A people who I'm pretty sure have been kicked to the curb for a lot longer and harder than some others.

They may have not been personally attacking out of intention but the same reason you don't give a toddler a loaded gun is why I spoke up and always will. Unless I'm just overly demoralized. People don't realize how they're being taught to use certain phrases and ideas to muddy the waters and further drive us apart playing all sorts of absurd blame games.

I feel like I could go on and on with this subject but the more I think about it the more hopeless I feel. Something I see people in these circles fail at day in day out is the misuse of our highly and intentionally polluted and poisoned language. I suppose my main grievance is how people can seldom hold high one people or culture without dipping into some victim-complex and tearing down another people/culture.

I see your point about the Aussie thing. But that's writing off a serious thing as something harmless. Like telling a stranger with a birthmark on their face that they should cover it up with make-up and then being confused why they would get pissed at you. The same imperfect and wonky DNA that led to that mark is just as much in you as it is in them, you just got away with having a clean face.

The conqueror in me is the conqueror in you.

ThePythonicCow

18th February 2013, 22:52

Please distinguish between (1) us as individuals, (2) us as sharing a common spirit, and (3) us as carriers of various (sometimes seriously poisoned) cultures.

Not sure what the context of "us" is here.
Us humans (and perhaps other such beings.)

How pleased are they with Montezuma's results? You know, the madman who sacrificed thousands upon thousands for no other reason than maybe the god of war would favor him as he conquered and subjugated neighboring kingdoms into his empire. And he did all this without any pro-tips from whitey.
I'm no expert on the history of the ancient cultures who occupied the Americas before my European ancestors arrived, but, yes, I've little doubt but that those cultures also had some seriously dark and poisoned sides.

But my saying that the Aztec (Montezuma was an Aztec ruler) culture was seriously poisoned does not mean that I distrust or am attacking descendants of the Aztec's personally. Indeed that's an interesting example, as a good friend of a close relative of mine, both of whom are wonderful people, is a descendant of the Aztec's. They are two of my favorite people.

Nor did I feel attacked as a whitey and descendant of the European invaders of the America's by the comments of others above, denouncing the harm that the white invaders inflicted on the America's and their indigenous cultures. Those attacks on whitey were attacks on poisonous culture of whitey, which was and still is one of the nastier cultures around. I agree with and join in on those attacks on the white, European descendant, Anglo-American, culture. It seriously sucks ... and I am a white, European descendant, Anglo-American.

One more time, since you deflected it the first two times by a confusion over the word "us":

Please distinguish between (1) us humans as individuals, (2) us as sharing a common spirit, and (3) us as carriers of various (sometimes seriously poisoned) cultures.
Attacks on "whitey" as seen above are attacks on a poisoned culture, not on individuals, except in so far as individuals support and spread that poison. You are, I remain convinced, misreading those attacks as being personal, and then justifying indignant complaints. Your response, I am convinced, is unjustified and divisive.

Rog

19th February 2013, 03:36

I'm no expert on the history of the ancient cultures who occupied the Americas before my European ancestors arrived, but, yes, I've little doubt but that those cultures also had some seriously dark and poisoned sides.

But my saying that the Aztec (Montezuma was an Aztec ruler) culture was seriously poisoned does not mean that I distrust or am attacking descendants of the Aztec's personally. Indeed that's an interesting example, as a good friend of a close relative of mine, both of whom are wonderful people, is a descendant of the Aztec's. They are two of my favorite people.

Nor did I feel attacked as a whitey and descendant of the European invaders of the America's by the comments of others above, denouncing the harm that the white invaders inflicted on the America's and their indigenous cultures. Those attacks on whitey were attacks on poisonous culture of whitey, which was and still is one of the nastier cultures around. I agree with and join in on those attacks on the white, European descendant, Anglo-American, culture. It seriously sucks ... and I am a white, European descendant, Anglo-American.

One more time, since you deflected it the first two times by a confusion over the word "us":

Please distinguish between (1) us humans as individuals, (2) us as sharing a common spirit, and (3) us as carriers of various (sometimes seriously poisoned) cultures.
Attacks on "whitey" as seen above are attacks on a poisoned culture, not on individuals, except in so far as individuals support and spread that poison. You are, I remain convinced, misreading those attacks as being personal, and then justifying indignant complaints. Your response, I am convinced, is unjustified and divisive.

Dude, it sounds like you have major guilt/shame problems which is again part of my point. Your convictions are sloppy. If I'm taking anything personally it's that the individual minds I share a world with keep tripping over some basic stuff. Namely not having a respect for the power of words irregardless of intention. I would think with all of the awareness people try to practice here that me bringing up what I did wouldn't be treated with convictions of being indignant and divisive. Especially considering that's exactly what I asked people to cool off on.

Considering the opening part of my second post was asking you what you meant with your request, I would say your terrible choice of words concerning my double(?) "deflection" is just showing more that you've got some kind of bias with me. I didn't have a confusion over the word "us" either. I had a confusion as to why you would present that request like I'm taking some entrance exam. Are you waiting for me to answer to say something? To snap back about me being indignant and divisive? If you have something to say just say it. Like this...

You may have helped a lot on this forum from a tech level to keep it running, and I do appreciate that. But at some point you're going to have to take stock of how much of an off-base asshole you have the capacity to be, and how well you fulfill that capacity. I do it atleast once a day, it's good for the blood.

And if you really need some kind of answer to your personality exam, it seems fairly obvious. We, humans, are individuals, a common spirit, and bearers of cultural code.

I guess I want to apologize to Avalon and the OP, for not bending into popular thought and calling bull**** on bull****. I guess I need a few more rainbow rides before I can be light enough in the head to not be divisive. :ohwell:

ThePythonicCow

19th February 2013, 07:53

I guess I need a few more rainbow rides before I can be light enough in the head to not be divisive. :ohwell:
I guess so :).

Enjoy your two week vacation rainbow ride.

spiritguide

19th February 2013, 11:21

This was the first time that a personal negative attack was directed at me with assumptions that were conjured by a negative entity. It took a lot of determination to not allow this one to suck me into the negative space trying to manifest. Paul thank you for deflecting the attack and dealing with the situation in the most appropriate manner. In my opinion the individual is not the entity but just a tool being used like a hammer.

westhill

19th February 2013, 13:29

Divide and conquer... old old story.
I spent a two week "rainbow ride" in the Dakotas and Wyoming based on my delving into the Lakota/US history.
I went to the pow wow in 1999 with my kids. There was no boat just people. The most important piece of information
I learned from Russell Means' book in that we are all on the reservation. We all have been colonized.
I have no problem with Rog. He spoke his mind. This is a tough topic. We should really focus on who has financed and
benefited over the vast centuries. They're damn good at getting us to blame ourselves. That's why this forum is
so important. Learn, research, find out and grow/change and misstep (without threat of punishment). Wishing you all peace.

Joe Akulis

20th February 2013, 16:02

I agree with Westhill that Rog spoke his mind very well. I appreciate people who are so adept with their words. They often convey things that I only wish I were that good at putting into words. But like the welcome message for this forum reminds us: treat each other with respect. I admit to struggling a few times in the way I have disagreed with people. This too is terrific practice, learning the proper ways to discuss differing opinions without letting anger creep in, even if it's undirected, or overinterpreted.

I'm thinking about where we are headed. About all the native abilities we humans are beginning to re-realize. Telepathy is going to be a big one. My sense is that is it easier to give in to belligerent language when you've never met the person you are addressing in real life, face to face. Never had a beer with them, or shared a joke. Or been through a bad experience together with them. Or shared a good one. Where we are headed is a world where that isn't going to be possible anymore. Communication will not only be with words. It will include the thoughts and emotions and background experiences that produced those words, and it will be easier for the speaker to convey something angrily, and for the listener to understand completely where the anger is coming from.

I look forward to that. Until then though, we will still have to struggle to do this with words. Rather than just hurl frustration towards someone, we should spend the time to add a layer of background experience to explain the reasons for it as well. So we, the listener aren't as quick to take it personally and can get alongside you and see your point. Rog was doing this to some degree, but then it became clear that his later posts were simply standing up to a challenge. It was a good duel. :-) But no longer productive. (Sorry, not trying to be a mod. Just felt compelled to comment on all this.)

It will be good to look backward and remember the days of verbal communication.

chocolate

21st July 2013, 09:00

Strange thing happened, WhiteFeather, with me.
I started watching the videos you posted and my mind was flooded with the idea that there has been too much energy going in the direction of separation between "native" and non-native. Something about that starts to irritate me a little. With all due respect for the traditions and culture of the native tribes all over the world, I think we ALL have the seeds of wisdom, compassion, knowledge, kindness, love etc, just on the west we have been bit put in an unnatural for the human spirit atmosphere. I can start a rant about the thracian, my predecessors living on my land, and their culture that has been so carefully hidden from all of us for whatever reasons in the past. But I think right now the less we put our attention on separation, the better. Native or not, we are all native in a way. If we allow ourselves to thing for ourselves, to feel for ourselves without the fear of being looked at strangely and judged, than we will discover our true nature and the power that comes with it regardless of color of our skin. Why don't we try to behave as one, not just say we are one? And why don't we drop the need to "feel" different and just realize we are all one and different and valuable with our differences...

I have never been racist on base of ethnic or religious differences, and I think of myself of being really very open-minded and peaceful person, but sometimes, like this time, I also feel the need to speak my mind.