Is it the same old story of a savior being born by a virgin.....

[AMystic3434]

Why does every major story in all regions of the world revolve around a child that is a savior being born from a virgin. This story sounds familiar because that is what the bible tells us but really all the ancient stories (even before Jesus) tell the same tale. Its like the same story has been recycled over and over. In my opionion this discredits the bible in a big way. Its just the same old story with different characters.

[panopticon]

In my opionion this discredits the bible in a big way. Its just the same old story with different characters.

Why do you think this AMystic3434?
Can you be more precise?
-- Pan

[christian]

I think it's obvious that many beliefs and traditions have been re-used in an alternated form throughout history, like with the Roman and Greek gods, or in general when you look at how today's institutions are still permeated by ancient symbolism.

But the thing with having been born from a virgin doesn't necessarily take away credence from anything, in my opinion. I think it's entirely possible that a child can be conceived through spirit. I've actually just been working on a text relating to that for The Awakening of a Warrior by Michael Jaco, which I am editing at the moment.




Another very powerful of those technologies is hidden in a symbol that was very popular in ancient Egypt, the ankh. It looks like a cross with a handle, and it’s a symbolic representation of the unity of male and female energies, as well as of a circular movement of etheric energy through the body. This particular circuit boosts longevity, which is why the ankh is associated with immortality. The effects of applying this circuit are very pronouncedly observable especially in men, because it is accompanied by a reversal of the sperm flow, whereby the energy contained within it gets transformed and dispersed throughout the body, this phenomenon is today known as multi-orgasmic potential within men. Some men do this naturally, but everybody can learn this, it’s really a wonderful way to do something positive for yourself and for your partner.

Drunvalo Melchizedek contends that this technique had already been known in Lemuria, where couples applying this technique were creating an immortal offspring, and were becoming immortals themselves, he describes it in some detail in his book [I]The Flower of Life. This energetic circuit is also known in other cultures around the globe, like in Tantra or Daoism. In China there is the legend of Huangdi, the Yellow Emporor, who was allegedly taught this technique by three highly intuitive concubines. Consequently he felt inspired to write the Huangdi Neijing, also known as the Yellow Emperor’s Inner Canon, which is the core foundation of Traditional Chinese Medicine. But the knowledge of this energetical circuit in ancient China has only gotten a wider public attention in the last decades through the books of Mantak Chia, who has trained with monks, martial artists, healers, and spiritual scholars for most of his life. He dubbed this energtical circuit the “microcosmic orbit.”

I can imagine that there are also spirit entities that can impregnate women, as it is said to be the case with Buddha or Jesus.

[Prodigal Son]

In Gnostic Kabbalah, being born of a virgin has an entirely different meaning from today's definition. It means being born of the alchemical union of sexual magic, tantra, sacred sex, or whatever you want to call it. The woman actually becomes pregnant from the pre-ejaculation sperm, which is the most pure and potent.

There is something called a "spiritual orgasm" that blows away what has become "normal" ejaculation a hundred times over. I know because I managed to achieve it on a couple of occasions and it was like nothing I ever imagined was possible. It felt like what is described as Nirvana: Being completely free of all desire and suffering, completely at peace and at one with the Divine.

Unfortunately it didn't last more than a few moments, but I got a glimpse of it.

Tantra was quite popular in ancient times throughout many different cultures. I recommend the book "Sex In History" by Reay Tannahill.

For the Gnostic interpretation, I found this very interesting, it answers a lot of your questions in your OP....

The Immaculate Conception

http://gnosticteachings.org/the-teachings-of-gnosis/universal-savior/206-the-immaculate-conception.html

[Hervé]

Well, all right...

If you please, allow me to pull a bit of the blanket on my side...

Thanks!

So, here is a different perspective: the only big, common book available to a planet to write in, is its sky at night... no qualms about that.

If some wise or "sage" people wanted to transmit some knowledge down to future generations and knowing what happens to paper, animal hides, rock carvings or encrypted tablets, which medium would they choose that would be available till the end of time?

Yep, that's right... the night sky!

Ancient Egyptian were wise enough to embed some esoteric knowledge into a card game that went down to future generations and known as "Tarot." Celts embeded their knowledge into traditional dance choreographies and one of those that made it to modern time and which graphically demonstrates equinoxes precessions to a tee.

Well, why not use the stars themselves to recount a story for such a knowledge?


http://www.aloha.net/~johnboy/Preces.htg/img1.gif


... and here comes the very interesting tidbit from the site where the above comes from (http://www.aloha.net/~johnboy/Preces.htg/precession.htm):



The "Sun" (son) born of a Virgin (Virgo).



is (also) the Sun as it precesses out of the sign of Virgo into Leo, the sign of the King."



The Sphinx, of the Giza Plateau in Egypt, is a monument to the "birth" of the Sun (circa 10,500 BC).




Accordingly, there won't be another "King" born out of a "Virgin" for another 13,000 years... :) That's a lot of time for many more religions to maintain the myth.

[donk]

Its like the same story has been recycled over and over. In my opionion this discredits the bible in a big way. Its just the same old story with different characters.

I am not sure why the retelling of a story would "discredit" it...to me it would reinforce it. Maybe the actual underlying truth of whatever messsage is being transmitted is VERY important, hence it being given to us over and over in slightly different ways?

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

I think this ties into Mithraism and Wotanism,
which revolves around the sacred king appearing and being sacrificed on a tree, right, or communing with the sun and moon.

the theme of the unblemished savior type being sacrificed for sins comes up a LOT in the last 20,000 years of human history.

it's pretty weird and I am sure Carl Jung must have noticed it too.

Unnatural circumstances of birth. Mithra born from a rock, Christ born from a virgin.


The iconic scenes of Mithras show him being born from a rock, slaughtering a bull, and sharing a banquet with the god Sol (the Sun).
~wikipedia


upon this rock i will build my church
~jesus


Modern historians have different conceptions about whether these names refer to the same god or not. John R. Hinnells has written of Mitra/Mithra/Mithras as a single deity worshipped in several different religions.[25] On the other hand, David Ulansey considers the bull-slaying Mithras to be a new god who began to be worshipped in the 1st century BC, and to whom an old name was applied.[26]


In every Mithraeum the centrepiece was a representation of Mithras killing a sacred bull; the so-called tauroctony.[31]

shepherd's crooks (jesus and mithra attended by shepherds)




The image may be a relief, or free-standing, and side details may be present or omitted. The centre-piece is Mithras clothed in Anatolian costume and wearing a Phrygian cap; who is kneeling on the exhausted[32] bull, holding it by the nostrils[32] with his left hand, and stabbing it with his right. As he does so, he looks over his shoulder towards the figure of Sol. A dog and a snake reach up towards the blood. A scorpion seizes the bull's genitals. A raven is flying around or is sitting on the bull. Three corns of wheat are seen coming out from the bull's tail, sometimes from the wound. The bull was often white. The god is sitting on the bull in an unnatural way with his right leg constraining the bull's hoof and the left leg is bent and resting on the bull's back or flank.[33] The two torch-bearers are on either side, dressed like Mithras, Cautes with his torch pointing up and Cautopates with his torch pointing down.[34][35] Sometimes Cautes and Cautopates carry shepherds' crooks instead of torches.

Odin and his sacrifices hung from the tree


It is attested in primary sources that sacrifices were made to Odin during blóts. Adam of Bremen relates that every ninth year, people assembled from all over Sweden to sacrifice at the Temple at Uppsala. Male slaves and males of each species were sacrificed and hung from the branches of the trees.



Christ Odin Tree/Spear Coincidence

Hávamál


The sacrifice of Odin (1895) by Lorenz Frølich
In Rúnatal, a section of the Hávamál, Odin is attributed with discovering the runes. In a sacrifice to himself, the highest of the gods, he was hanged from the world tree Yggdrasil for nine days and nights, pierced by his own spear, in order to learn the wisdom that would give him power in the nine worlds.
Bride of christ

I believe personally that Jesus may have made love to one of his disciples, Mary Magdalene, and that she may have carried his offspring for which the white jar and red robe is a metaphor.

[johnf]

The stories in religions are coded symbols.
I read all the posts from the op, and each of the suggestions are probably correct at a certain level.
If one uses the idea of a pure being, one can find that in ones self, and in others in spite of our frailties.
That is the best use of this story that I can see.
If one uses it to convince the masses that there was only one pure being, and that that being left them in charges of the masses , one can create a hierarchical , world wide mess like we have today.

[markpierre]

Why does every major story in all regions of the world revolve around a child that is a savior being born from a virgin. This story sounds familiar because that is what the bible tells us but really all the ancient stories (even before Jesus) tell the same tale. Its like the same story has been recycled over and over. In my opionion this discredits the bible in a big way. Its just the same old story with different characters.

So yes it's the same old story. The New Testament story of Jesus was an invention by Paul to fit his own agenda and make his new obsession popular.
Borrowed quite frankly, from the superficial minds of the ancestors, because he couldn't see the clarity and simplicity of Jesus's message to the masses. That an individual could lift himself up from the common and see through the eyes of the divine, by behaving and relating to each each other through the heart and inclusive choices. Instead of moral obligations and rules. Paul was no smarter than any other Pharisee. But very clever.

Loving others, even as (just the same as you're) loving yourself. Well, that's a good idea of how much you love yourself. Self acceptance to Paul was evil. Man had to remain a slave to his own guilt. If he groveled enough, God would pardon him. Good grief. Sacrifice will set you free. Nothing new there.
He took the power from God and put it like a robe on Jesus. Exactly the opposite of what Jesus had said.
All power is of God.

The 'golden rule' is the simplest, fastest, most inclusive' most practical and most available tool ever given to the common mind.
It doesn't require lifetimes of 'exclusion' and dedication to ideas that intend to transcend the world of suffering, but moves directly through it and heals that world of the individual in that passage. He had an idea that we all might be back here again, looking at the same problems. He was giving those minds a leg-up in that journey. He told them he'd see them again. When they were ready.
Well here we are.

Jesus wasn't talking to devotees. He was speaking to mothers and brothers and fishermen and vineyard owners. Prostitutes and pimps and tax collectors and soldiers that lived among them.
He didn't perpetuate myths, he gave examples of behaviors in everyday life and relationships. and showed them a better way to use their minds. He didn't parrot 'the law', he clarified it.
Jesus taught resurrection of the body and mind to a higher plane of experience, that he knew would take lifetimes.
Paul managed to maneuver that information into the Archonic traditions that he'd learned that kept him and everyone a prisoner of guilt and self denial.

Paul had an illumination, but he failed to take personally a few points about responsibility and integrity.
Whatever became of 'Paulian churchianity' is irrelevant, because the deed was done. The general vibrational patterns were established to take the world into it's next phase of learning. Just as the Buddha had done before with what feeble vibration he had to work with.

Instead of complaining about how someone was born, it would be faster and more productive to simply pick up a Bible with the words of Jesus in red, and regard the rest as story. Read the instructions and employ them.

As for all the other religions that used that same trick? Same agenda. Dupe the superstitious masses.

[johnf]

Why does every major story in all regions of the world revolve around a child that is a savior being born from a virgin. This story sounds familiar because that is what the bible tells us but really all the ancient stories (even before Jesus) tell the same tale. Its like the same story has been recycled over and over. In my opionion this discredits the bible in a big way. Its just the same old story with different characters.

So yes it's the same old story. The New Testament story of Jesus was an invention by Paul to fit his own agenda and make his new obsession popular.
Borrowed quite frankly, from the superficial minds of the ancestors, because he couldn't see the clarity and simplicity of Jesus's message to the masses. That an individual could lift himself up from the common and see through the eyes of the divine, by behaving and relating to each each other through the heart and inclusive choices. Instead of moral obligations and rules. Paul was no smarter than any other Philistine. But very clever.

Loving others, even as (just the same as you're) loving yourself. Well, that's a good idea of how much you love yourself. Self acceptance to Paul was evil. Man had to remain a slave to his own guilt. If he groveled enough, God would pardon him. Good grief. Sacrifice will set you free. Nothing new there.
He took the power from God and put it like a robe on Jesus. Exactly the opposite of what Jesus had said.
All power is of God.

The 'golden rule' is the simplest, fastest, most inclusive' most practical and most available tool ever given to the common mind.
It doesn't require lifetimes of 'exclusion' and dedication to ideas that intend to transcend the world of suffering, but moves directly through it and heals that world of the individual in that passage. He had an idea that we all might be back here again, looking at the same problems. He was giving those minds a leg-up in that journey. He told them he'd see them again. When they were ready.
Well here we are.

Jesus wasn't talking to devotees. He was speaking to mothers and brothers and fishermen and vineyard owners. Prostitutes and pimps and tax collectors and soldiers that lived among them.
He didn't perpetuate myths, he gave examples of behaviors in everyday life and relationships. and showed them a better way to use their minds. He didn't parrot 'the law', he clarified it.
Jesus taught resurrection of the body and mind to a higher plane of experience, that he knew would take lifetimes.
Paul managed to maneuver that information into the Archonic traditions that he'd learned that kept him and everyone a prisoner of guilt and self denial.

Paul had an illumination, but he failed to take personally a few points about responsibility and integrity.
Whatever became of 'Paulian churchianity' is irrelevant, because the deed was done. The general vibrational patterns were established to take the world into it's next phase of learning. Just as the Buddha had done before with what feeble vibration he had to work with.

Instead of complaining about how someone was born, it would be faster and more productive to simply pick up a Bible with the words of Jesus in red, and regard the rest as story. Read the instructions and employ them.

As for all the other religions that used that same trick? Same agenda. Dupe the superstitious masses.

Wow! Not much that I can add to that as far as a simple truth.
I had a powerful experience in my college years that prompted me to go back to the old testament, and reread some of it.
first stop was the book of John, and rereading that caused me to have another experience that prompted me to be open to the bible again.
I think I read a few other things, and didn't see as much truth in it.
Then I read some Paul, and my inner knowing told me that this part was lies.
Markpierre goes through a lot of the specifics in the post I quoted.
This experience is a bar for me to accepting christianity as it has been presented for centuries, and prompts me to keep looking elsewhere.
However another idea came through, and it is something that I try to follow with my own behavior as well as others.
And that is to take certain behaviors as examples of what not to do.
I believe that early christianity created so much freedom for it's early followers that it threatened to wipe out the control of rulers entirely.
Why is the version of the bible accepted today basically the one decided on so many years after all the founders of christianity died?
Was there a battle that raged for that long before the archontic forces basically won back their foothold on mankind?

[GloriousPoetry]

AMystic3434,

Read Joseph Campell's work .....he travelled the world for 40 years studying every culture possible with its religions and traditions and came to the conclusion that the human psyche is the same all over the world. His interpretation of every religion and human experience can be best studied through mythology which is the integration of theologly and cosmology. It's been a while since I read his stuff but I do remember Campell equating the virgin birth with the birth of purity in the heart which is found in all religions.

[Spiral]

Why does every major story in all regions of the world revolve around a child that is a savior being born from a virgin. This story sounds familiar because that is what the bible tells us but really all the ancient stories (even before Jesus) tell the same tale. Its like the same story has been recycled over and over. In my opionion this discredits the bible in a big way. Its just the same old story with different characters.

Its the same story because there is but one truth.

The "story" is known as "The Cosmic Drama" to initiates, the fact that this sequence of events & circumstances repeats does not invalidate the Bible, on the contrary, it validates it, and more to the point Jesus Christ, as being the pinnacle, in the greatest of the cycles.

And we are living in it.

[markpierre]

And that is to take certain behaviors as examples of what not to do.

I believe that early christianity created so much freedom for it's early followers that it threatened to wipe out the control of rulers entirely.
Why is the version of the bible accepted today basically the one decided on so many years after all the founders of christianity died?
Was there a battle that raged for that long before the archontic forces basically won back their foothold on mankind?

Now you're recognizing self responsibility in the program. Feels different don't it. That's exactly it. What you can't feel you can't know.
And when you feel it, you bloody well know you've never felt it before. That's the process of resurrection, or ascension or whatever you want to call it.

But it's not the airy-fairy 'oh, I feel so blissful and wonderful now, let me get on to my business in the world. Make a better illusion to hide out in.' 'All you need is love!'
It's 'oh s#it, I'm responsible for the mess I see, and I'm going to have to apply my own authority and wisdom and responsibility to undo it. That's love doing what needs to be done.
We've gotten this far mostly learning what doesn't work. What we don't want. Next step is what does work. What do we want?
That has to come from the BIG Mind that knows. We're too trained in littleness to envision totality.

The Archons only exist in the egoic mind. That's the only place that they have any power. We join forces with them every day and keep that crappy story going.
Until we stop. The battle is ancient because we've been using that delusional thinking for all of this time. The battle is with ourselves.