The economic and the spiritual--What's happening for you?

[AutumnW]

It's tough or just weird unstable times, economically....and it's global. The Chinese miracle??Pfft...800 million are worse off now than they were 30 years ago. Only 600 million have benefited from the 'rising standard of living.'

South, Central and North America? Strange bifurcating economies, some making out like bandits...literally, others losing ground.

It would really be great if people would log on to this thread and describe their own locales, if not by town, at least by state or some way that could identify the place without sacrificing their anonymity.

How do you perceive the economy impacting you, spiritually? What is happening for YOU?

[GarethBKK]

I live in a place that has a very large proportion of the world's very poor within a 1,000km radius. At the same time, I live in a thriving city where the elite think nothing of driving around town in $200,000 cars. The elite ram their opulence into the homes of the poor through their control of TV. I have the ability to go to rural farming areas regularly where working folk struggle to make $50/month. They get up before dawn, work 12 hours in blistering heat, shower and get drunk with their friends. The regular switch between urban consumerism/elitism/fantasy and the rural survival/acceptance/honesty teaches me that joy and peace have nothing to do with the material. I am grateful to my toothless and haggard teachers from the land.

[AutumnW]

Thanks Gareth. Do you mind if I ask you what country you are describing? I hope the disparity in income narrows, but if trends continue, the G10 nations will continue to look more and more like your country and not the other way around. I can't imagine working 12 hours a day in the heat. Really. I did it once, picking strawberries in Ontario, Canada, as a kid and I got sick and hallucinated strawberries all night. I should have worn a hat, I guess.

So, I guess the way it impacts you spiritually, is you feel that the poor experience more joy than the vacuous rich? Do you think this has something to do with the fact that in rural communities, you are seeing just that--authentic community?

[Flash]

I live in a place that has a very large proportion of the world's very poor within a 1,000km radius. At the same time, I live in a thriving city where the elite think nothing of driving around town in $200,000 cars. The elite ram their opulence into the homes of the poor through their control of TV. I have the ability to go to rural farming areas regularly where working folk struggle to make $50/month. They get up before dawn, work 12 hours in blistering heat, shower and get drunk with their friends. The regular switch between urban consumerism/elitism/fantasy and the rural survival/acceptance/honesty teaches me that joy and peace have nothing to do with the material. I am grateful to my toothless and haggard teachers from the land.

You have a Wales flag, therefore in Britain. If it is the case, it is far from being the world's very poor, nobody in Britain, except for the street beggars and yet may be not, are amongst the poorest of the world (they can afford beer, this says it all). I presume you meant the poorest in Britain. Or another country. But 50$ a month is little, is that their overall salary for beer, food, and shelter, in which case it is really poor, but yet not he poorest, or is it 50$ of pocket money? Is it elsewhere than Britain?

[Flash]

I live in Canada, and to tell the truth, I would never consider anyone here as being poor, when compared with real poor countries such as Bengladesh, the poorest in Columbia, Haiti, and other real poor countries. There spirituality is most probably proportional to stomach fed.

Here, the anxiety related to making sure you have a job and mostly long weeks of 50 hours plus for some will hamper spirituality because the body is tired. However, many have only 35 hours week (the government workers) with good pay and garanteed conditions inlcuding garanteed retirement income. For them it must be much easier. This is not my case, I always worried about how and when the money will come in to put food on the table. And because of this, I overwork often and meditation and the alike takes a second place.

[GarethBKK]

The BKK suffix to my name gives things away - Bangkok. Have lived in Asia for 24 years. I should remove the flag but thought it said where I was from rather than where I am.

[GarethBKK]

So, I guess the way it impacts you spiritually, is you feel that the poor experience more joy than the vacuous rich? Do you think this has something to do with the fact that in rural communities, you are seeing just that--authentic community?

Exactly. Family and friends together in a very simple but honest and loving community. I can see how life is lived moment to moment.

[Flash]

So, I guess the way it impacts you spiritually, is you feel that the poor experience more joy than the vacuous rich? Do you think this has something to do with the fact that in rural communities, you are seeing just that--authentic community?

Exactly. Family and friends together in a very simple but honest and loving community. I can see how life is lived moment to moment.

Ok, so you are right, amongst the poorest in the world.

You know, I lived once in El Salvador in a small town. The peoples priority was to fill their stomack and get a roof. Once that was done, their priorities where their kins. THey were very toleratnt of each other and much more giving than anything I have seen in America, on average.

[ghostrider]

It took me four years to get a small raise, and with obama's new 2.6 percent increase in payroll deduction in January this year , it wiped my much needed raise right out... my landlord says everyone is struggling to make rent and most live on a one person working income for the other spouse lost their job... I felt bad for them , and two months later it happened to my household , my wife had a health issue and her employer fired her the week she came back from the hospital... the only difference in companies is the sign out front ...my eldest son's wife was fired last year, she had been with her company for twenty years right out of high school ... it is bad for most in my area, people out of work and out of benefits run around scrapping metal for survival money ... when our government attacks the wealth of those who provide a service and hire people, guess what ??? they don't hire , they fire, cut their losses and save money, and downsize, and hide all they can for they know uncle sam is in trouble and wants all the money in the world for themselves ... bye bye middle class ... sorry uncle sam I don't have 16 trillion , tax me all you want, you'll still be short ...

[Youniverse]

The economy has zero impact on me spiritually. Personally, I care very little about what the economy does. It's all inside of me, as it is in you! It does not reflect my inner reality very accurately at all. At least, not anymore. All we hear on the news is the economy this, or the economy that. If most really cared about standards of living and the plight of the poor, there would be little said about economies.

[lookbeyond]

Hi Autumn, i live in Australia, i work part time and my husband full time.We have all we need, no luxuries by western standards but extremely well off compared to most of the worlds inhabitants imo.As a child i was aware of things that my siblings were not and are still oblivious to.I feel i would be this way no matter what my position in life, i am fortunate at this time that i am rarely too exhausted physically to pursue my spiritual endeavors and am extremely grateful for this privilege in life.

Kind Reguards lookbeyond

[AutumnW]

The economy has zero impact on me spiritually. Personally, I care very little about what the economy does. It's all inside of me, as it is in you! It does not reflect my inner reality very accurately at all. At least, not anymore. All we hear on the news is the economy this, or the economy that. If most really cared about standards of living and the plight of the poor, there would be little said about economies.

Hi Youniverse, As Canadians we have a sense of security that we are often born into and don't question. Even in one of the richest countries in the world, though, people fall through the cracks.

Let me tell you my story. When I was fifteen years old, I was hit with a neurological disease that started out by affecting my short term memory--just trashed it. In all other ways and appearances, I was completely normal. But I had NO working memory, and no ability to convince anybody how serious my mental state was. This was back in the seventies. I had been a top student--was considered brilliant through elementary and junior high.

My grades plummeted. My parents thought I couldn't perform at school because I was high on drugs. I ended up in psych wards because it was assumed my rage and anxiety were all rooted in some emotional disorder. I was actually pretty normal, emotionally, just freaked out because my mind seemed to be slipping away, among other things.

After brief stays in psyche wards, I was shipped off alone in a sink or swim effort, designed by the psychiatrists. I couldn't think my way out of a paper bag, by this time. I arrived in Calgary, confused, traumatized and unable to make a living. I applied for welfare and was turned down because I hadn't lived there for six months.

I can remember drifting around with 5 dollars in my pocket wondering what i was going to do. I very nearly ended up prostituting myself. Did my personal economy affect my spirituality? I can't remember having many spiritual moments, actually.

I think the economy, if you are below subsistence level and outside of community, for whatever reason, is going to affect you profoundly--and not in a spiritually positive way. You feel like the damned, nowhere to turn, noone to turn to.

Any God or gods I had previously believed in seemed cruel, showed their Janus faces. The universe seemed conspiratorial, punitive. Trying to make sense of it all, I sifted through, examined all my prior foibles like a detective. Was this it? Did I bring this on, by doing that??

I got out of that jam after a short time--and feel that Christ himself, the angels or whatever belief system appeals to you, helped me, watched over me, protected me through the darkest night of the soul. But that's retrospective thinking. At the time, I was sure I was doomed.

Through a series of divinely inspired coincidences I ended up where I am today--very disabled but with a definitive diagnosis from an infectious disease specialist and a geneticist.

I am now married and money will never be a problem for me. In that way I am so grateful. I've become acutely sensitive to the needs of 'the damned,' in my own vicinity. It's what I've been called to do--help those who may have some kind of undiagnosed problem that is frustrating their attempts to get ahead, survive.

Well oh lord, this wasn't the intention of the thread, but when I read your response, though I am really happy for you, it moved me to write about my own journey.

And hey, I'm from Saskatchewan originally too! Best wishes to you!

[blake]

I live in an up scale, New England, small town. Over the past few years, many merchants,
both new, and established are struggling to keep their doors open. Many have been closing their doors, even though they were very popular in town, yet still they couldn’t make the rent, let along give themselves a salary to live on. The small business owners with their doors open continue to hurt. Town is adding higher fines and fees to the people they are suppose to serve in order to collect needed money for their coffers.

Talking to the merchants and service people, many say they are mostly living off their savings. The owners of a small financial institution, that has been around for a couple of decades, in order not to close its doors, are using their personal savings to pay their employees’ salary. I don’t know how long they can afford to pay their employee’s salaries out of pocket, as the employees are well paid, well over average. The owners are hoping the economy will turn around. Nothing I say can help them face economic reality. They want to believe that the economy will turn around. I am watching carefully. Presently they are trying to sell their business. I doubt if they would be able to get half of what it is worth, even if they could find a buyer. They would have been wise to sell it a decade ago. They could have retired early, and never worry about money. Now the business is draining everything they spent two decades building up. Some people just emotionally can’t be objective, and don’t have the emotional or economic courage to cut their loses, and so eventually they loose all while getting swept away in the flood of the dying economic times.

I have been involved with various industries, and they appear all are the same to me, morally, with the same predatory nature no matter now “nice and likable” the people may be. After all, it’s business. My choice was to establish a strong foundation for my personal needs, and that of my family and exit the “ rat” race years ago. I have done better than most. My advice to all youth starting out in life is to establish your base foundation so you don’t have to climb the corporate ladder, and can exit whenever you choose; and should you get tossed out, then you don’t have to worry about keeping a roof over your head, or food on the table without “ a job” .

I think people should work for someone if there is an opportunity to learn or do something exceptional. But once people start working to put food on the table, and can’t survive well without a paycheck; then they are a slave. I think young people need to arrange their life style so that they can escape that dependency as soon as possible. Once people don’t need a job for a safe roof, and food on the table, employees will have more respect for their employees knowing if they don’t treat them well, they can leave at any time. Freedom is a big part of spirituality. Work is also an important part of spirituality and life, but work looses it meaning when the paycheck holds you hostage.

I understand most people are held hostage, and I understand society has engineered people to be the victim of the hostage situation. So to me the spirituality is learning to free yourself while still living a quality life. Money is not everything, but money is good. Money buys comfort. Money buys protection, but so does a good set of skills, and so does street and economic savvy. The game, among the predators has always been money. How much of your life can you command without money dictating what you do with your time? And yet money frees you if you don’t allow it to enslave you. It is the proverbial two edge sword. So it would be wise, spiritually, in my opinion, to learn to be a good swordperson so your life is always on the right side of that sword, at your command.
.
The public schools, as you all know, teaches the masses to be good worker bees. How can you be a good worker bee, and be spiritually advanced? I think part of being spiritually advanced is seeing clearly what a situation is and staying away from it if it is not within what you personally think is worthy of your time, or what you want to spend your time on earth doing.

To me, spirituality is developing the muscles necessary to direct your time as you see fit, not how someone else think you should spend you time, while still meeting the personal responsibilities that all humans have of caring for their basic needs and those of their family.

Living in an unsafe place, not having food, not having pleasures is not meeting your basic needs.

Money is a good thing to have. Money is only bad if you use it to manipulate people, or don't have any.
Money is a good thing to have. But so is the appreciation and ethical use of the free gifts of nature. We are not nature spirits. We all must live among humans, on some level. Just like it is to our benefit to learn to walk and talk, and to feed and cloth ourselves, it is also to our benefit to learn about human nature and how to negotiate, cleverly, our interactions with them in their world. Few humans seem to achieve this very basic knowledge, in my opinion, by looking at how so many people have been manipulated by money, instead of using it to set themselves free.

Sincerely,

Mr. Davis

[Youniverse]

The economy has zero impact on me spiritually. Personally, I care very little about what the economy does. It's all inside of me, as it is in you! It does not reflect my inner reality very accurately at all. At least, not anymore. All we hear on the news is the economy this, or the economy that. If most really cared about standards of living and the plight of the poor, there would be little said about economies.

Hi Youniverse, As Canadians we have a sense of security that we are often born into and don't question. Even in one of the richest countries in the world, though, people fall through the cracks.

Let me tell you my story. When I was fifteen years old, I was hit with a neurological disease that started out by affecting my short term memory--just trashed it. In all other ways and appearances, I was completely normal. But I had NO working memory, and no ability to convince anybody how serious my mental state was. This was back in the seventies. I had been a top student--was considered brilliant through elementary and junior high.

My grades plummeted. My parents thought I couldn't perform at school because I was high on drugs. I ended up in psych wards because it was assumed my rage and anxiety were all rooted in some emotional disorder. I was actually pretty normal, emotionally, just freaked out because my mind seemed to be slipping away, among other things.

After brief stays in psyche wards, I was shipped off alone in a sink or swim effort, designed by the psychiatrists. I couldn't think my way out of a paper bag, by this time. I arrived in Calgary, confused, traumatized and unable to make a living. I applied for welfare and was turned down because I hadn't lived there for six months.

I can remember drifting around with 5 dollars in my pocket wondering what i was going to do. I very nearly ended up prostituting myself. Did my personal economy affect my spirituality? I can't remember having many spiritual moments, actually.

I think the economy, if you are below subsistence level and outside of community, for whatever reason, is going to affect you profoundly--and not in a spiritually positive way. You feel like the damned, nowhere to turn, noone to turn to.

Any God or gods I had previously believed in seemed cruel, showed their Janus faces. The universe seemed conspiratorial, punitive. Trying to make sense of it all, I sifted through, examined all my prior foibles like a detective. Was this it? Did I bring this on, by doing that??

I got out of that jam after a short time--and feel that Christ himself, the angels or whatever belief system appeals to you, helped me, watched over me, protected me through the darkest night of the soul. But that's retrospective thinking. At the time, I was sure I was doomed.

Through a series of divinely inspired coincidences I ended up where I am today--very disabled but with a definitive diagnosis from an infectious disease specialist and a geneticist.

I am now married and money will never be a problem for me. In that way I am so grateful. I've become acutely sensitive to the needs of 'the damned,' in my own vicinity. It's what I've been called to do--help those who may have some kind of undiagnosed problem that is frustrating their attempts to get ahead, survive.

Well oh lord, this wasn't the intention of the thread, but when I read your response, though I am really happy for you, it moved me to write about my own journey.

And hey, I'm from Saskatchewan originally too! Best wishes to you!

Thank-you for sharing my fellow Saskatchewanian! I was very moved by your story and am sincerely sorry for your troubles. Though I'm glad to hear you pulled through somehow and are more at ease now, especially concerning material needs. I related very much to your story actually. I had some dark nights of the soul(a significant one in Calgary as well actually) myself, though not to the extreme you had. Please don't misunderstand my statement, in that I was not being ungrateful for the many blessings I was 'born into' in this country. I take nothing for granted. I live a very modest sort of life here in Moose Jaw. We don't have much by Canadian standards but live like kings compared to most of the world. One thing that most humans on Earth don't share with us is the debt load that usually or inevitable some would say has a great effect on material reality. We find ways to clear up our debt and it reappears again and again. We have not lived extravagantly at all. We don't splurge very often on expensive trips or items and the like. So we end up with credit card debt just to pay bills and by groceries at times. I'm all about responsibility so I am accountable for my and my family's spending. It just seems this whole economic system(as displayed and analyzed in Zeitgeist) is setup to keep most of us enslaved and in debt all the time. There are so many pitfalls. I'm so sick of it, as I believe are most folks. I KNOW there is a much better way. On another thread and via private messaging I am currently discussing the creative ways an alternative system could be created on this planet that allows for human freedom and expression of the highest order. One that does the opposite of enslaving us. It's the what can be done? thread if you'd like to join in the conversation.

To see the many flaws in a system that organizes human materials goods and interaction, does not mean one is engulfed in and somehow tainted by the system in question. One can be in this world but not OF it in other words. I feel this way personally. I know I am an eternal spiritual being having a human experience. My personality construct is like a video game icon, or an avatar, through which I have these experiences. For the most part I consciously create and choose not to immerse myself in negativity. When we get obsessed with what's wrong with the world, we just create more of that. I focus much more attention now on the various positive aspects of this human experience and how I can make it more fulfilling for myself and everyone.

I have a very strong drive to consciously create 'heaven on Earth' in any unlimited number of ways that manifests. I strongly believe it already is manifesting from right under our feet. So as the obsolete structures and systems keep crumbling, I rejoice, for my gaze is fixed upon the emerging new paradigm that is being born. With every death there is the birth of something new. We are experiencing this on a grand scale! Bless you and thanks for the chat!

[AutumnW]

Hi Blake, Thanks so much for your comments! There's a foreground, background feeling people have regarding economic turn around. They see their businesses failing or sales dwindling in a persistent way. They can't argue with the foreground. But it's playing out against a background of massaged economic statistics and political blarney about the great 'turnaround'. What nobody is going to tell them is that there is something of a turn around taking place, but they may not be a part of it. It is based largely on region.

To anybody starting out, I would tell them the same things you would. I would also tell them to look at living in or near regions that have active large universities, generate large numbers of patents, have a modern rapid transit system and a history of some kind of community feeling. This may sound crazy, too, but I suggest to Americans to pick a place that has these features and if they can--places with large Scandinavian populations. Scandinavians seem to have almost integrated community values into their dna. As it turns out, areas like St.Paul Minneapolis and Seattle are doing pretty well right now. They have disproportionately large numbers of people with Scan-ancestry.

[Delight]

To see the many flaws in a system that organizes human materials goods and interaction, does not mean one is engulfed in and somehow tainted by the system in question. One can be in this world but not OF it in other words. I feel this way personally. I know I am an eternal spiritual being having a human experience. My personality construct is like a video game icon, or an avatar, through which I have these experiences. For the most part I consciously create and choose not to immerse myself in negativity. When we get obsessed with what's wrong with the world, we just create more of that. I focus much more attention now on the various positive aspects of this human experience and how I can make it more fulfilling for myself and everyone.

I have a very strong drive to consciously create 'heaven on Earth' in any unlimited number of ways that manifests. I strongly believe it already is manifesting from right under our feet. So as the obsolete structures and systems keep crumbling, I rejoice, for my gaze is fixed upon the emerging new paradigm that is being born. With every death there is the birth of something new. We are experiencing this on a grand scale! Bless you and thanks for the chat!

I live in a beautiful location with all the natural resources one could desire.
The legacy from the past is not so pretty. The original people were herded up and marched to the West. A skating rink that has been turned into a mall is on the spot where the "pen" holding these people once stood.

I married a man whose family was from here. There was once some sewing factories but any industry paying good wages never was allowed to be here. The sewing plants closed as did a regional copper mine in the 80's.

Retirees and second homes and tourism support some "chi chi" businesses. The people with long family history are mostly either able to leave town or eek out an existence. I sometimes wonder about the heavy energy from the past blighting the people.

My own case is a pain in the rear of massive misallignment. My husband died several yearss ago and my house is upside down in vlaue. I was an RN and absolutely cannot work in the system now. My thoughts dwell on the idea that there is bound to be something that I might contribute that is lucrative and nonexploiting...... So far I have not lost my house. I used my savings after I left nursing. If asked, I say I am on permanent vacation.

MY aspiration is to participate in some kind of coop venture where people could make a living wage at home or in working together. I believe the new earth is real but it does not look like it yet on many fronts.

I am on the board of the local farmers market and do some other community activities but I really do not "like" the vibe of the community spirit here. For instance, we may lose our library due to no funding. Say WHAT? How can this be? My ideas do not seem to mesh well where I live except with a few friends.

I keep working on my allignment to spiritual principles and since I believe I experience my mirror, I am wrestling with my inner demons. I insist that if I am able to be the kind of person who is larger than the evidence...that will appear. Maggie

[AutumnW]

To see the many flaws in a system that organizes human materials goods and interaction, does not mean one is engulfed in and somehow tainted by the system in question. One can be in this world but not OF it in other words. I feel this way personally. I know I am an eternal spiritual being having a human experience. My personality construct is like a video game icon, or an avatar, through which I have these experiences. For the most part I consciously create and choose not to immerse myself in negativity. When we get obsessed with what's wrong with the world, we just create more of that. I focus much more attention now on the various positive aspects of this human experience and how I can make it more fulfilling for myself and everyone.

I have a very strong drive to consciously create 'heaven on Earth' in any unlimited number of ways that manifests. I strongly believe it already is manifesting from right under our feet. So as the obsolete structures and systems keep crumbling, I rejoice, for my gaze is fixed upon the emerging new paradigm that is being born. With every death there is the birth of something new. We are experiencing this on a grand scale! Bless you and thanks for the chat!

Thanks so much, Youniverse, for your words of wisdom. Sorry if I came off as critical...didn't mean to. I would really like to join your group and thanks so much for the invitation. I am completely stumped as to how to create a better system other than, as you say, to be as outside of the system as possible.

I think part of the problem with diminishing money, through inflation and job loss etc..is we get frugal..and then shop at Costco or Walmart because it's cheaper. People do this to survive, often enough, not out of greed. But we are definitely feeding the beast, buying products made by slave labor in China, instead of stuff made in Canada or by our geographic brothers and sisters, South of the border. I pray there is some kind of soft easy transition out of this way of life for everyone, including the Chinese.

As a fellow Canadian, I wonder if you sense a major recession taking shape in our country?

[Youniverse]

To see the many flaws in a system that organizes human materials goods and interaction, does not mean one is engulfed in and somehow tainted by the system in question. One can be in this world but not OF it in other words. I feel this way personally. I know I am an eternal spiritual being having a human experience. My personality construct is like a video game icon, or an avatar, through which I have these experiences. For the most part I consciously create and choose not to immerse myself in negativity. When we get obsessed with what's wrong with the world, we just create more of that. I focus much more attention now on the various positive aspects of this human experience and how I can make it more fulfilling for myself and everyone.

I have a very strong drive to consciously create 'heaven on Earth' in any unlimited number of ways that manifests. I strongly believe it already is manifesting from right under our feet. So as the obsolete structures and systems keep crumbling, I rejoice, for my gaze is fixed upon the emerging new paradigm that is being born. With every death there is the birth of something new. We are experiencing this on a grand scale! Bless you and thanks for the chat!

I live in a beautiful location with all the natural resources one could desire.
The legacy from the past is not so pretty. The original people were herded up and marched to the West. A skating rink that has been turned into a mall is on the spot where the "pen" holding these people once stood.

I married a man whose family was from here. There was once some sewing factories but any industry paying good wages never was allowed to be here. The sewing plants closed as did a regional copper mine in the 80's.

Retirees and second homes and tourism support some "chi chi" businesses. The people with long family history are mostly either able to leave town or eek out an existence. I sometimes wonder about the heavy energy from the past blighting the people.

My own case is a pain in the rear of massive misallignment. My husband died several yearss ago and my house is upside down in vlaue. I was an RN and absolutely cannot work in the system now. My thoughts dwell on the idea that there is bound to be something that I might contribute that is lucrative and nonexploiting...... So far I have not lost my house. I used my savings after I left nursing. If asked, I say I am on permanent vacation.

MY aspiration is to participate in some kind of coop venture where people could make a living wage at home or in working together. I believe the new earth is real but it does not look like it yet on many fronts.

I am on the board of the local farmers market and do some other community activities but I really do not "like" the vibe of the community spirit here. For instance, we may lose our library due to no funding. Say WHAT? How can this be? My ideas do not seem to mesh well where I live except with a few friends.

I keep working on my allignment to spiritual principles and since I believe I experience my mirror, I am wrestling with my inner demons. I insist that if I am able to be the kind of person who is larger than the evidence...that will appear. Maggie

Sounds like you are on the right track and doing well to me! I empathize with much of what you're saying. Energy that has been built up and reinforced for so long has a certain kind of momentum with it. So we are still experiencing that momentum. Although in a sense it has come to a stanstill and the train is starting to chug the opposite direction. Don't worry, the sense of community and common understandings we experience here will keep spreading out to the rest of the world until it becomes the norm. Trust God and trust yourself!

[Youniverse]

To see the many flaws in a system that organizes human materials goods and interaction, does not mean one is engulfed in and somehow tainted by the system in question. One can be in this world but not OF it in other words. I feel this way personally. I know I am an eternal spiritual being having a human experience. My personality construct is like a video game icon, or an avatar, through which I have these experiences. For the most part I consciously create and choose not to immerse myself in negativity. When we get obsessed with what's wrong with the world, we just create more of that. I focus much more attention now on the various positive aspects of this human experience and how I can make it more fulfilling for myself and everyone.

I have a very strong drive to consciously create 'heaven on Earth' in any unlimited number of ways that manifests. I strongly believe it already is manifesting from right under our feet. So as the obsolete structures and systems keep crumbling, I rejoice, for my gaze is fixed upon the emerging new paradigm that is being born. With every death there is the birth of something new. We are experiencing this on a grand scale! Bless you and thanks for the chat!

Thanks so much, Youniverse, for your words of wisdom. Sorry if I came off as critical...didn't mean to. I would really like to join your group and thanks so much for the invitation. I am completely stumped as to how to create a better system other than, as you say, to be as outside of the system as possible.

I think part of the problem with diminishing money, through inflation and job loss etc..is we get frugal..and then shop at Costco or Walmart because it's cheaper. People do this to survive, often enough, not out of greed. But we are definitely feeding the beast, buying products made by slave labor in China, instead of stuff made in Canada or by our geographic brothers and sisters, South of the border. I pray there is some kind of soft easy transition out of this way of life for everyone, including the Chinese.

As a fellow Canadian, I wonder if you sense a major recession taking shape in our country?

We can discuss this in much more detail later as I have to go. Thanks to you as well! Yes I sense a recession coming here but as I said earlier it doesn't bother me because I see something much larger and more profound unfolding. I agree with what you were saying by the way! Pm me if you like!

[skippy]

My advice to all youth starting out in life is to establish your base foundation so you don’t have to climb the corporate ladder, and can exit whenever you choose; and should you get tossed out, then you don’t have to worry about keeping a roof over your head, or food on the table without “ a job” .

I think people should work for someone if there is an opportunity to learn or do something exceptional. But once people start working to put food on the table, and can’t survive well without a paycheck; then they are a slave. I think young people need to arrange their life style so that they can escape that dependency as soon as possible. Once people don’t need a job for a safe roof, and food on the table, employees will have more respect for their employees knowing if they don’t treat them well, they can leave at any time. Freedom is a big part of spirituality. Work is also an important part of spirituality and life, but work looses it meaning when the paycheck holds you hostage.


Very true. After all, we humans, don't need a lot of things, materially speaking, to keep ourselves alive. One or two bottles of water and a bread will basically do. The world can cater for these very basic needs, no problem whatsoever.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Financially i made a decision a few years ago to live a little more spartain, so i only earn what i need to survive, and spend the rest of my time enjoying free time , nature and life. This in turn has done great things to my spirit. I could never go back to full time employment.

I work about 20 hours a week, i meditate daily, i exersise and do simple things that mean so much.

I also write philosophy and i lead a benevolent society for the underprivelliged as a councellor and spiritual guide. This does wonders in helping others reach their potential or at very least , keep a smile on their face.

Work 9 to 5 is a prison for most, unless you love what you do. Work is a spiritual " tourniquet " i have found... never time for the self, no time to reflect and ponder , read poetry , walk in nature , make a decent nutritional meal.

I get by and the rest of the time i do what i want to do.

Naniu

[Youniverse]

Financially i made a decision a few years ago to live a little more spartain, so i only earn what i need to survive, and spend the rest of my time enjoying free time , nature and life. This in turn has done great things to my spirit. I could never go back to full time employment.

I work about 20 hours a week, i meditate daily, i exersise and do simple things that mean so much.

I also write philosophy and i lead a benevolent society for the underprivelliged as a councellor and spiritual guide. This does wonders in helping others reach their potential or at very least , keep a smile on their face.

Work 9 to 5 is a prison for most, unless you love what you do. Work is a spiritual " tourniquet " i have found... never time for the self, no time to reflect and ponder , read poetry , walk in nature , make a decent nutritional meal.

I get by and the rest of the time i do what i want to do.

Naniu

Yes this is really close to how it should be for most folks. So many people are addicted to working because the system has created these monsters. People work for the sake of working basically. Sounds pretty ridiculous doesn't it? I've wondered this my whole life. What's so valuable about working your tail off? So what. Of course there are the obvious reasons and that's not what I mean here. People are turned into workaholic zombies so that they could retire just in time to pay off their debts and die. Wow! Now that makes life seem so worthwhile doesn't it? The truth is humans will work hard when it is required, but most of our time should be free to pursue whatever interests us most. Work comes in all kinds of forms. I do much more unpaid work than I do paid work(maybe I should figure out how to switch that around). With the proper motivation, almost anyone can work tirelessly to achieve a goal. Life is definately not about working in the traditional sense. If the folks that spend so much energy complaining about technology taking away jobs, actually got dedicated and committed to creating a system that did not require one to work for pay to survive, we'd all be better off.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

I could understand doing it in the 50's when you could pay off a house in 5 years with one income. Today you need two incomes and 30 years to pay off a home .. and even then you dont really own it ..

whats the use ?

i have never worked out why people would work till they are so old .. then what ? travel ? go surfing ? ride a motorbike across the continent ? go hang gliding ? run the bull in the strets of spain ? meh , i can see a huge gap between my happiness and that of someone that works 9 to 5 . generally speaking.

hmmm


n

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Put it this way , you outlay half a mill on a house , by the time you paid it off you spent 1. 5 mill and if you sold it you would get a mill for it so youre negative half a mill ...

there are much better ways to leverage money to make more money with far less outlay.

the housing market is on the way down , why ? because of legislation. You buy the house but you do not own it ...

id prefer to put my money on earth moving equipment ..something that can work and does not need to be registered ;o)

when its not registered you are the " sole " owner. when you own tangibles you have true assets and with true assets come sutainable wealth.

if you have cash lying around ? spend it on tools and equipment that can make you more ... cash is on the way out .. so spend it and do it wisely before it becomes paper

N
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