Vatican Conclave Has Begun!

[MorningSong]

The doors of the Cistine Chapel were sealed about an hour ago....

The first "fumata" will be at 19:00 local Italian time.

Black smoke means, no choice made yet...white smoke, a new Pope has been chosen.

Watch live here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/the-pope/9923896/Papal-conclave-begins-in-the-Vatican-watch-live.html

and here:

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/2013-papal-conclave

[Lifebringer]

Truth be told, I don't give a darn what crooked controller gets in. Who's in charge of the cover-up of boy rape, does not concern me.

Will there be a "celebration of business as usual, also?

[MorningSong]

That is perfectly fine that you feel that way, Lifebringer, but your words appear very harsh.

With all the threads on the last Pope and on the next Pope, who and what will he be, I thought that someone might be interested.

As a student of prophecy, religion and ancient human history, I most certainly am!

Peace and Good Will to all!

PS: So far no updates from the Vatican... no-show "fumata" so far...

[MorningSong]

Black smoke flowing from the chimney!

No go...too soon... this could take days!

[araucaria]

Thank you for this thread MorningSong. You don’t need to be looking to the Pope for spiritual guidance to take a close interest in what is going on here. Sometimes a pope will be working for the greater good, in possibly the most difficult circumstances imaginable. John Paul I was one such, and was taken out pretty quick.

As regards the papal prophecies whereby the next pope is the last, they are important because, regardless of their accuracy, many people are working actively to make them come true. A little positive focus from the likes of Avalonians can only help towards a positive outcome, whatever that may be.

Likewise, the Catholic Church still has great influence. The fact that the reported 1.2 billion Catholics include all the many baptized as children who have since lapsed but cannot fully ‘delete their account’ (same as with Facebook) is irrelevant: the figure is constantly being bandied about as gospel. That being so, many people have got a discreet voting right that they no longer want, but can still use to some effect. Which is in fact what is happening: the spiritual equivalent of tactical voting.

[conk]

I pray that the black smoke means they are burning everyone involved. Sound harsh? Let's ask the millions upon millions who have been harmed by these inhumane creatures. Let's ask the countless young, innocent boys who placed their faith and trust in a higher authority, THE highest authority according to some.

These vile, evil cretins are vying for the top spot in the heirachy of hate and fear. Damn them all!

[Snookie]

I went to a family funeral last week. The priest who was officiating was obviously doing the homily from memory. There was no emotion or change in the tone of his voice. I can not remember a single word he said. I told my sister I felt like going up and switching him from on to off, he sounded so robotic.

I know a lot of very nice well meaning Catholics, but this church has had it's stint in power, and its time to move on from this Pisces era religion which demands unquestioning authority.

[kersley]

I pray that the black smoke means they are burning everyone involved. Sound harsh? Let's ask the millions upon millions who have been harmed by these inhumane creatures. Let's ask the countless young, innocent boys who placed their faith and trust in a higher authority, THE highest authority according to some.

These vile, evil cretins are vying for the top spot in the heirachy of hate and fear. Damn them all!

Looks like we be having roast pope for dinner then?

[WhiteFeather]

The only thing missing from this 3 Ring Circus Act In Rome was the dog and pony show. But there were plenty of Jack Asses present and dressed in Red clown outfits with white clown hats. Oh And Im Quite Sure There were plenty of Pedophile Priests Present. Enjoy The Music Circus Lovers. What an Act!!!!!

Sorry if im being a little harsh about this Illuminatti Satanic Cult.



https://people.stanford.edu/jla/sites/default/files/images/6b.%20cardinals1%20sm.%20color.jpg



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D5Sa2Yq-2g

GOD NEEDS MONEY. Great Video on Religion by George Carlin


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPOfurmrjxo

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Maybe those old farts will finally decide to make a young black lesbian single mom pope, if that happens i am satisfied, there will be hope for the world then, but i am afraid the white smoke will be from popium and blown up everybodys arse and nothing will change for the better.

[RUSirius]

Geez, I cant wait to see who the next perp is.

[Snookie]

I think they elbowed the last ol' bugger out of the way, not so much because of all the sexual scandals which had been known about for quite some time, (when they give Jimmy Saville accolades you know just how rife the perversion really is) but because he can be directly tied to some nefarious financial scandals. The power brokers will not tolerate losing their precious money.

[kersley]

Off topic I know, But whats happening with the Queen,Pope,Canadian prime minister been arrested. Any news? Anyone..

[Daughter of Time]

I pray that the black smoke means they are burning everyone involved. Sound harsh? Let's ask the millions upon millions who have been harmed by these inhumane creatures. Let's ask the countless young, innocent boys who placed their faith and trust in a higher authority, THE highest authority according to some.

These vile, evil cretins are vying for the top spot in the heirachy of hate and fear. Damn them all!

Looks like we be having roast pope for dinner then?

Roast pope for dinner??? Yuck!!! Who'd want to consume depraved, vile, putrid flesh? Throw it to wild dogs, who have more right to live than any pope ever did, except, maybe John XXIII who was the only pope, to my knowledge, who tried to banish the evil within the church. I don't think he died a natural death. I'm quite certain he was poisoned.

No offence to you MorningSong! But priests and popes and the Catholic Church and all the fake theatrics that go with it are a very sore spot for me.

However, I have no desire to derail your thread and if you are offended by my post and wish me to remove it, I will do so at your request.

[SilentFeathers]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--vUkBYe2z6E/UT_P16M07dI/AAAAAAAAEFY/2FHmHIEehHg/s674/pope+smoke.jpg

[ghostrider]

no matter who they choose , he will take the name that in latin means Petrus Romanus ... the last pope ...

[Ol' Roy]

I do believe there is a lot of corruption in the Catholic Church. There is so much bashing, really, about any religion, government, banking, civil rights,freedom, and the treatment of humanity as a whole! The Catholic Church seems to be the flavor of the decades! There is good in all religions, government (some) and maybe some banking.

Don't throw the baby out with the dishwater!
Labeling is such a bad word in my opinion! Whether it be race, creed, nationality, or sex.

Actually, I am quite shocked that the people I know and love on Avalon would do this. Sorry, I'm labeling. Just a few. I'm guilty sometimes too!

Avalon was founded on the grounds, that intelligent people of the world would come together, find common ground. ie. The Ground Crew. And solve problems and carry them out in their communities Correct me if I wrong Bill!

Morning Song was just trying to relate the news about the papal conclave!

I am sorry, I ranted! (hardly ever do)!

Let's all pull our sleeves up and solve some problems!

[SilentFeathers]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-vprA4I3-Pzw/UT__QaM9lSI/AAAAAAAAEF4/RC8_V_ZRoHM/s487/pope+queen.jpg

[sdv]

thanks for the giggles silentfeathers!

I watched them saying the oath - ugly old men in frocks, decrepit old men in frocks and evil-looking men in frocks. phew! However, I like the look of the bearded guy from America - only one that looks normal.

[Hermite]

Gotta agree with Ol' Roy there and says thanks MorningSong. After all, it IS going on whatever your opinion. And shoot, the next pope might be a CANUCK. How wild would that be? Well, not very wild, really, as Ouellet has stated openly he would maintain the status quo, if chosen.

I eagerly await the decision as I am very curious about the whole "black pope, last pope" thing. I'm not Catholic, but I am interested.

[apokalypse]

http://prikachi.com/images/262/5922262f.gif
i know he's waiting...

[Fred Steeves]

I will wager that the next Pope was already chosen long before this whole story went public.

I won't be adding my energy to the old smoke watching ritual.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Apokalypse, I bet Nostrillius Extralargius the 1th will do a fine job.

[G.Deluca]

and we (italians) pay for this charade with our taxes!

[RUSirius]

I know we all need a fresh poop

[Prodigal Son]

Apokalypse, I bet Nostrillius Extralargius the 1th will do a fine job.
No that's his cousin Proboscis Protruderus IV!

[SilentFeathers]

Patiently waiting......hmmm, what's next?

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSYpJnGPTGlNdLFcFtiBEk691nns9Z7sScCPuAIoiebGLUvYOt3tw

[Yvonne]

If you like watching grass grow or paint peel, then you'll like this. ;) It's a live Pope Cam.

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/51133846/#51133846

http://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Video/Live/JPEGs/f_smokecam_am_130313.video-260x195.jpg

[jagman]

Black smoke this morning...Another vote this afternoon. Could it be 3-13-2013?

[NewFounderHome]

Black smoke this morning...Another vote this afternoon. Could it be 3-13-2013?

Tham your good! Right on the head :cheers:

[SilentFeathers]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-z0UMypAJIbc/UTodsJCnz3I/AAAAAAAALzo/P59EfmkgxkI/s640/cardinal-pope.jpg

[jagman]

We have a pope!

[MorningSong]

Thanks to all of you for the participation! I truely agree, to some extent, with you all!

I'm not Catholic and never have liked the Catholic church. I'm a 9th generation protestant american raised by a "truth seeking" late hippy-earthworm mother (who was a self-made evangelical Preacher's Kid)/atheist father. I grew up jumping around the Baptist, Presbeterian, Methodist, Moravian, Church of God, Jehova Witness... Churches. Never really found my holy nitche.

That has led me to searching for the "truth" as best I could with what I had. I got into the New Age-alternative medicine scene... just about done it all and bought the T-shirt, too. It has all worn out, like an old T-shirt, too.

I even gave up on searching for quite a while.... then I began a journey, via internet, which lead me to Project Camelot and Project Avalon. And I'm still here....

So...

I do understand the influence that the Catholic church (and most religions, as far as that goes) has had in the world.... mostly bad, IMO. But one cannot deny that it (religion) certainly had it's use in controlling civilization... having some decent rules and getting people to believe in them and to follow them (the golden rule comes to mind).

So, don't you dear people worry 'bout little ole me. I'm a big girl now. LOL

And I love you all...for better and for worse....whatever comes around...

ANNOUNCEMENT!!!!!


White Smoke!!!!! NOW POPE ON THE WAY!

[Hervé]

We have a pope!

"We"... or "They"? :P

[SilentFeathers]

We have a pope!

I wonder what's next....lightning hitting the Sistine Chapel????

[donk]

I plan to create my own puff of gray smoke, a pope pipe of the purple-est poo I have to pack (pope Peter pipe?) and contemplate the significance of this totally sensible ritual.

[MorningSong]

Boy, wouldn't that be wild! With all the water standing from the rain.....ZZZZZAAAPPPPP! Get'em all!!!!

[donk]

In fact, I'll be releasing plumes of smoke hourly until I figure it all out...

[avid]

The MSM sycophancy is nauseous, look at the crowds of mind-controlled sheeple..... it's so sad and out-of-date, oh dear.....

[MorningSong]

I really don't see what they see in a Pope.... the most un-democratically voted leader of one of the richest and smallest counties in the world, voted in by 115 representatives of "regional" ladder climbers (Cardinals) from a world-wide organization..... under Swiss Guard protection.....

Do they really see him as GOD on Earth?!? Even as God's messenger/mouth piece??? MAH! BOH!

[giovonni]

Papa non più !

Always loved those Ukrainian girls http://factoryjoe.s3.amazonaws.com/emoticons/emoticon-0105-wink.gif

Published on Mar 13, 2013

"Two activists from the Ukrainian feminist group Femen were dragged away from the edge of Saint Peter's Square by police late on Tuesday as they protested against the Vatican's opposition to gay marriage. The protesters set off pink flares chanting "Pope no more!" before they were restrained by officers and carried to a police station. The protest came as cardinals from around the globe locked themselves inside the Sistine Chapel to choose a new leader for Catholics."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v59Da81q9Xg&feature=em-uploademail

[Daughter of Time]

I really don't see what they see in a Pope.... the most un-democratically voted leader of one of the richest and smallest counties in the world, voted in by 115 representatives of "regional" ladder climbers (Cardinals) from a world-wide organization..... under Swiss Guard protection.....

Do they really see him as GOD on Earth?!? Even as God's messenger/mouth piece??? MAH! BOH!

I was raised Roman Catholic. I was made to go to Catholic school and Catholic Church. The horrors I could tell... which are not appropriate for this thread. Thence, my complete contempt towards the Catholic Church.

In Catholic School I was taught that the pope "IS" God on earth and everything that he says is the word of God, put into his mouth directly by God. This brain washing has been instilled in people's souls together with the fear during the Inquisition when 9 million people (8 million women) were burned at the stake, quartered, disembowelled alive, drowned, hanged, etc., for being witches. Most of these women were wealthy and once being found guilty as "witches" their wealth was confiscated by the Catholic Church which is how they accumulated so much wealth back in those days.

But I digress... this thread is not about that, but to say that centuries of brain washing stays with people who still believe that the pope is God on earth! Very sad!

[RMorgan]

The new pope is elected:

http://rt.com/news/new-pope-elected-vatican-222/

Raf.

[donk]

I really don't see what they see in a Pope

Authority
Control Structure
Heirarchy
DADDY



Do they really see him as GOD on Earth?!? Even as God's messenger/mouth piece???

In my experience, most don't think that deeply about it. Or God. Or even him, for that matter.

Thinking makes Catholicism tough...that whole "worshipping no other Gods but me" thing, graven images, idolatry...both testaments were kinda against those types of things, if I understand correctly (which I am sure I don't, so please forgive me).

[778 neighbour of some guy]

White smoke eh, maybe we dont have a pope, but "they" have a bong and are having a little fun on our expence.

Well ok assuming we have a pope, is it a he or a she, is he/she white/brown/black/yellow/tan/green or red?

[Lone Bean]

We can watch people getting hacked, burned, slashed, smashed, electrocuted, drowned and every other way a person can be horribly killed, but BY GAWD!!! there'll be NO SHOWING OF THE female BREASTISES!!!!!!!:nono::nono::nono:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v59Da81q9Xg

[SilentFeathers]

I'm waiting for a lightning strike or earthquake any second now! lol!

[waves]

......

Morning Song was just trying to relate the news about the papal conclave!......!


We all railed against the fact that it was worded as if taking it seriously and without any mention of what a gross facade it was.

I would add, I don't think there's a chance in hell there was any electing going on. The stooges are sworn to secrecy about their vote, and the ballots and counters will never see the light of verification.

Who in the shadows is in charge of having final say in the installing is a good question. Any ideas?

[Yvonne]

I figured it would be today. 3/13/2013. "They" , being TPTB have a thing for the number 13.

[Kraut]

"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven." Matthew 23:9.

Funny how easily the whole church structure can be dismantled simply by using their own text book. Too bad most of these idiots are too busy cheering these lunatics instead of doing some vital reading.

Could we have a micro meteor strike into the chapel please?

[MorningSong]

Pope Francesco...Argentino!

They were talking about that possibility on the radio this morning..that noone had ever chosen that name.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Its a jesuit.
Fransiscus the 1th.
Doesnt smile, fixes his own dinner, lives in a small apartment.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

They really should have Dick van Dyke dancing around that chimney.

http://img2-2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/080604/worst-movie-accents/mary-poppins-van-dyke_l.jpg

Charoooo!

¤=[Post Update]=¤

They are probably burning some of that Nazi loot they got in exchange for protecting them after the war for the smoke.

[Aurvandil]

Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Argentina is the new pope, his name will be Francesco I, according to BBC.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Cardinal Bergoglio elected Pope after two days of conclave - live

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/13/papal-conclave-chooses-pope-day-two-live-coverage

[Gardener]

OMG a Jesuit!!!!

[RMorgan]

Cardinal Bergoglio elected Pope after two days of conclave - live

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/13/papal-conclave-chooses-pope-day-two-live-coverage

Another prediction goes down the drain...No Black Pope, no Petrus Romanus; Just an Argentinian guy.

[sheme]

Bless him and send him peace and light.

We experience the shift of that which was -it is no more , in the name of love, the darkness is removed.

[Fractalius]

They probably chose this one because he is probably into animals not little boys. Keeping the church out of childsex allegations.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Bless him and send him peace and light.



He certainly needs some enlightening. He his anti-gay, anti-abortion and anti-euthanasia.

[sheme]

The moon here is smiling!

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Bless him and send him peace and light.



He certainly needs some enlightening. He his anti-gay, anti-abortion and anti-euthanasia.

This is always confusing to me, who has less abortions than homosexuals?
Anti euthanesia must mean anti condom too imo, he's probably anti woman too, anti wet dream, anti kleenex and anti blablablabla.

[MorningSong]

So... Who is this new Pope?


Profile: New pope, Jesuit Bergoglio, was runner-up in 2005 conclave

John L. Allen Jr. | Mar. 3, 2013 NCR Today
Conclave 2013
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Rome

In the days leading up to the conclave, John Allen offered a profile each day of one of the most frequently touted papabili, or men who could be pope. On March 3, he profiled Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, who was elected March 13 to be Pope Francis. Here is the profile Allen wrote:

While there are still no tracking polls to establish who's got legs as a papal candidate, the 2013 conclave at least has one objective measure not available in 2005: past performance. Many of the cardinals seen as candidates now were also on offer the last time around, and someone who had traction eight years ago could be a contender again.

By that measure alone, Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Buenos Aires, Argentina, at least merits a look.

After the dust settled from the election of Benedict XVI, various reports identified the Argentine Jesuit as the main challenger to then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. One cardinal later said the conclave had been "something of a horse race" between Ratzinger and Bergoglio, and an anonymous conclave diary splashed across the Italian media in September 2005 claimed that Bergoglio received 40 votes on the third ballot, just before Ratzinger crossed the two-thirds threshold and became pope.

Though it's hard to say how seriously one should take the specifics, the general consensus is that Bergoglio was indeed the "runner-up" last time around. He appealed to conservatives in the College of Cardinals as a man who had held the line against liberalizing currents among the Jesuits, and to moderates as a symbol of the church's commitment to the developing world.

Support NCR's coverage of the conclave.
Donate now!

Back in 2005, Bergoglio drew high marks as an accomplished intellectual, having studied theology in Germany. His leading role during the Argentine economic crisis burnished his reputation as a voice of conscience, and made him a potent symbol of the costs globalization can impose on the world's poor.

Bergoglio's reputation for personal simplicity also exercised an undeniable appeal – a Prince of the Church who chose to live in a simple apartment rather than the archbishop's palace, who gave up his chauffeured limousine in favor of taking the bus to work, and who cooked his own meals.

Another measure of Bergoglio's seriousness as a candidate was the negative campaigning that swirled around him eight years ago.

Three days before the 2005 conclave, a human rights lawyer in Argentina filed a complaint charging Bergoglio with complicity in the 1976 kidnapping of two liberal Jesuit priests under the country's military regime, a charge Bergoglio flatly denied. There was also an e-mail campaign, claiming to originate with fellow Jesuits who knew Bergoglio when he was the provincial of the order in Argentina, asserting that "he never smiled."

All of that by way of saying, Bergoglio was definitely on the radar screen. Of course he's eight years older now, and at 76 is probably outside the age window many cardinals would see as ideal. Further, the fact he couldn't get over the hump last time may convince some cardinals there's no point going back to the well.

That said, many of the reasons that led members of the college to take him seriously eight years ago are still in place.

Born in Buenos Aires in 1936, Bergoglio's father was an Italian immigrant and railway worker from the region around Turin, and he has four brothers and sisters. His original plan was to be a chemist, but in 1958 he instead entered the Society of Jesus and began studies for the priesthood. He spent much of his early career teaching literature, psychology and philosophy, and early on he was seen as a rising star. From 1973 to 1979 he served as the Jesuit provincial in Argentina, then in 1980 became the rector of the seminary from which he had graduated.

These were the years of the military junta in Argentina, when many priests, including leading Jesuits, were gravitating towards the progressive liberation theology movement. As the Jesuit provincial, Bergoglio insisted on a more traditional reading of Ignatian spirituality, mandating that Jesuits continue to staff parishes and act as chaplains rather than moving into "base communities" and political activism.

Although Jesuits generally are discouraged from receiving ecclesiastical honors and advancement, especially outside mission countries, Bergoglio was named auxiliary bishop of Buenos Aires in 1992 and then succeeded the ailing Cardinal Antonio Quarracino in 1998. John Paul II made Bergoglio a cardinal in 2001, assigning him the Roman church named after the legendary Jesuit St. Robert Bellarmino.

Over the years, Bergoglio became close to the Comunione e Liberazione movement founded by Italian Fr. Luigi Giussani, sometimes speaking at its massive annual gathering in Rimini, Italy. He's also presented Giussani's books at literary fairs in Argentina. This occasionally generated consternation within the Jesuits, since the ciellini once upon a time were seen as the main opposition to Bergoglio's fellow Jesuit in Milan, Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini.

On the other hand, that's also part of Bergoglio's appeal, someone who personally straddles the divide between the Jesuits and the ciellini, and more broadly, between liberals and conservatives in the church.

Bergoglio has supported the social justice ethos of Latin American Catholicism, including a robust defense of the poor.

"We live in the most unequal part of the world, which has grown the most yet reduced misery the least," Bergoglio said during a gathering of Latin American bishops in 2007. "The unjust distribution of goods persists, creating a situation of social sin that cries out to Heaven and limits the possibilities of a fuller life for so many of our brothers."

At the same time, he has generally tended to accent growth in personal holiness over efforts for structural reform.

Bergoglio is seen an unwaveringly orthodox on matters of sexual morality, staunchly opposing abortion, same-sex marriage, and contraception. In 2010 he asserted that gay adoption is a form of discrimination against children, earning a public rebuke from Argentina's President, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner.

Nevertheless, he has shown deep compassion for the victims of HIV-AIDS; in 2001, he visited a hospice to kiss and wash the feet of 12 AIDS patients.

Bergoglio also won high marks for his compassionate response to the 1994 bombing in Buenos Aires of a seven-story building housing the Argentine Jewish Mutual Association and the Delegation of the Argentine Jewish Association. It was one of the worst anti-Jewish attacks ever in Latin America, and in 2005 Rabbi Joseph Ehrenkranz of the Center for Christian-Jewish Understanding at Sacred Heart University in Fairfield, Connecticut, praised Bergoglio's leadership.

"He was very concerned with what happened, Ehrenkranz said. "He's got experience."

Nevertheless, after the conclave of 2005 some cardinals candidly admitted to doubts that Bergoglio really had the steel and "fire in the belly" needed to lead the universal church. Moreover, for most of the non-Latin Americans, Bergoglio was an unknown quantity. A handful remembered his leadership in the 2001 Synod of Bishops, when Bergoglio replaced Cardinal Edward Egan of New York as the relator, or chairman, of the meeting after Egan went home to help New Yorkers cope with the 9/11 terrorist attacks. In that setting, Bergoglio left a basically positive but indistinct impression.

Bergoglio may be basically conservative on many issues, but he's no defender of clerical privilege, or insensitive to pastoral realities. In September 2012, he delivered a blistering attack on priests who refuse to baptize children born out of wedlock, calling it a form of "rigorous and hypocritical neo-clericalism."

The case for Bergoglio in 2013 rests on four points.

First and most basically, he had strong support last time around, and some cardinals may think that they're getting another bite at the apple now.

Second, Bergoglio is a candidates who brings together the first world and the developing world in his own person. He's a Latin American with Italian roots, who studied in Germany. As a Jesuit he's a member of a truly international religious community, and his ties to Comunione e Liberazione make him part of another global network.

Third, Bergoglio still has appeal across the usual divides in the church, drawing respect from both conservatives and moderates for his keen pastoral sense, his intelligence, and his personal modesty. He's also seen as a genuinely spiritual soul, and a man of deep prayer.

"Only someone who has encountered mercy, who has been caressed by the tenderness of mercy, is happy and comfortable with the Lord," Bergoglio said in 2001. "I beg the theologians who are present not to turn me in to the Sant'Uffizio or the Inquisition; however, forcing things a bit, I dare to say that the privileged locus of the encounter is the caress of the mercy of Jesus Christ on my sin."

Fourth, he's also seen as a successful evangelist.

"We have to avoid the spiritual sickness of a self-referential church," Bergoglio said recently. "It's true that when you get out into the street, as happens to every man and woman, there can be accidents. However, if the church remains closed in on itself, self-referential, it gets old. Between a church that suffers accidents in the street, and a church that's sick because it's self-referential, I have no doubts about preferring the former."

On the other hand, there are compelling reasons to believe that Bergoglio's window of opportunity to be pope has already closed.

First, he's eight years older than in 2005, and at 76 he would only be two years younger than Benedict XVI was when he became pope. Especially on the heels of a papal resignation on the basis of age and exhaustion, many cardinals may balk at electing someone that old, fearing it would set the church up for another shock to the system.

Second, although Bergoglio was a serious contender in 2005, he couldn't attract sufficient support to get past the two-thirds threshold needed to be elected pope. Especially for the 50 cardinals who were inside the conclave eight years ago, they may be skeptical that the results would be any different this time around.

Third, the doubts that circulated about Bergoglio's toughness eight years ago may arguably be even more damaging now, given that the ability to govern. and to take control of the Vatican bureaucracy, seems to figure even more prominently on many cardinals' wish lists this time. Although Bergoglio is a member of several Vatican departments, including the Congregations for Divine Worship and for Clergy, he's never actually worked inside the Vatican, and there may be concerns about his capacity to take the place in hand.

Fourth, there's the standard ambivalence about Jesuits in high office, both from within the order and among some on the outside. That may have been a factor in slowing Bergoglio's progress last time, and nothing has changed the calculus in the time since.

Whether Bergoglio catches fire again as a candidate remains to be seen; one Italian writer quoted an anonymous cardinal on March 2 as saying, "Four years of Bergoglio would be enough to change things." Given his profile, however, Bergoglio seems destined to plan an important role in this conclave – if not as king, then as a kingmaker.


http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/papabile-day-men-who-could-be-pope-13

Notice the date of this article.... could that be a typo, hmmmmm?

[SilentFeathers]

Cardinal Bergoglio elected Pope after two days of conclave - live

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/13/papal-conclave-chooses-pope-day-two-live-coverage

Another prediction goes down the drain...No Black Pope, no Petrus Romanus; Just an Argentinian guy.

Not true Raf :)

I made this prediction on March 11th in another thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?56806-March-2013-The-Next-Great-Event-in-The-Awakening-&p=647124&viewfull=1#post647124):


They will pick the next pope on March 14th.

Lucky guess huh? :)

Whoops I was wrong too! lol! Wiki just changed there page to "elected on the 13th"

[Gardener]

lol SF your 15 min of fame they type it wrong just so you could be right lol. just jk of course

[SilentFeathers]

lol SF your 15 min of fame they type it wrong just so you could be right lol. just jk of course

Yeah, I was quite proud and amazed with myself there for a second....was about to email Paul and see if he could change my user name to SilentNostradamusFeathers" !

[Fractalius]

Also, being this guy is a Jesuit. There may be a link worth noting regards the Jesuits leader, the Superior General of the Society of Jesus, also has the comparatively crass nickname of the black pope.

So we have news headline or caption saying to us. "First Latin American and first Jesuit pope"

I wonder what the google key word count on Bergoglio and Francis and Jesuit Pope looks like recently.

Francis is a jesuit reference.

[Curt]

He was elected on the 13th day of 2013, at 7:06 (another 13)

Just sayin'. ;)

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Yeah, the name, Francis does have a Jesuit connection. From Wikipedia, Francis Xavier:

Francis Xavier

Apostle to the Far East
Born 7 April 1506
Xavier, Kingdom of Navarre, (Spain)
Died 3 December 1552 (aged 46)
Portuguese Base at São João Island, China
Honored in Roman Catholic Church, Lutheran Church, Anglican Communion
Beatified 25 October 1619 by Pope Paul V
Canonized 12 March 1622 by Gregory XV
Feast 3 December
Attributes crucifix; preacher carrying a flaming heart; bell; globe; vessel; young bearded Jesuit in the company of Saint Ignatius Loyola; young bearded Jesuit with a torch, flame, cross and lily
Patronage African missions; Agartala, India; Ahmedabad, India; Alexandria, Louisiana; Apostleship of Prayer; Australia; Bombay, India; Borneo; Cape Town, South Africa; China; Dinajpur, Bangladesh; East Indies; Fathers of the Precious Blood; foreign missions; Freising, Germany; Goa, India; Green Bay, Wisconsin; India; Indianapolis, Indiana; Sophia University, Tokyo, Japan; Joiliet, Illinois; Kabankalan, Philippines; Nasugbu, Batangas, Philippines; Alegria, Cebu, Philippines; diocese of Malindi, Kenya; missionaries; Missioners of the Precious Blood; Navarre, Spain; navigators; New Zealand; parish missions; plague epidemics; Propagation of the Faith; Zagreb, Croatia; Indonesia
Society of Jesus

Francis Xavier, born Francisco de Jasso y Azpilicueta (7 April 1506 – 3 December 1552) was a Roman Catholic missionary born in the Kingdom of Navarre (now part of Spain) and co-founder of the Society of Jesus. He was a student of Ignatius of Loyola and one of the first seven Jesuits, dedicated at Montmartre in 1534.[1] He led an extensive mission into Asia, mainly in the Portuguese Empire of the time. He was influential in the spreading and upkeep of Catholicism most notably in India, but also ventured into Japan, Borneo, the Moluccas, and other areas which had thus far not been visited by Christian missionaries. In these areas, being a pioneer and struggling to learn the local languages in the face of opposition, he had less success than he had enjoyed in India. It was a goal of Xavier to one day reach China.

[Operator]

Another prediction goes down the drain...No Black Pope, no Petrus Romanus; Just an Argentinian guy.

Well, maybe it's not so obvious this time. Yesterday evening dutch news on television reported this fellow as
a potential candidate and added that although he's technically a foreigner he's been very active in Rome for
years. So he is considered a Roman insider.

I can't verify if this is true or not but it briefly drew my attention when I heard it ...

[MorningSong]

According to the article I posted above, the new Pope's natural father was an Italian immigrant from Turin.....you can bet he has his Italian Passport!

Anyone born of an Italian male is, by birthright, Italian.

Another thing I'll add.....

Turin is considered the den of Satan, by many occultists....part of the "Devil's Triangle"....

This Cardinal-become-Pope did a lot of visiting to Rimini...another very occult hub in Italy...

Only by his acts may we judge him...we shall all see.

[apokalypse]

http://prikachi.com/images/262/5922262f.gif
i know he's waiting...

he's good and very good...everyone got trolled.

[SilentFeathers]

Perfect choice for Pope IMO....can't find a darn thing controversial or wrong with him!

All is fine now in the Vatican! :)

[Deega]

Hmm!, my guess is that the new Pope was chosen in such a way to nullify Malachy Predictions!

From what I could gathered on the News, he is ill health, a conservative, he won't stay long in papacy functions with all the pressure coming in on all sides.

[jagman]

I just heard an interesting factoid about the new pope.His father was a Italian Immigrant.:spy:

[apokalypse]

hold your horses people, the prophecy might still on...could 'Peter The Roman' be job title instead of a person?

[astrid]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/13/pope-francis-gay-marriage-anti_n_2869221.html

"Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, a 76-year-old Argentinean, was chosen as the first Latin American pope on Wednesday. He will lead the world's 1.2 billion Catholics as Pope Francis. While his selection may be historic, it may also mean more of the same when it comes to gay rights in the Catholic Church.

Pope Francis is a conservative who is anti-gay marriage and anti-gay adoption. He has described same-sex marriage as the work of the devil and a “destructive attack on God’s plan.” He has also said that gay adoption is a form of discrimination against children.

In 2010, Francis championed against a bill for same-sex marriage and gay adoption, according to the National Catholic Register. "



Same sh!t different day

[WhiteFeather]

I hope this new Pope Isn't Anal. This could be a pain in the ass to some. Pun maybe intended here ;)

[UpToLight]

A barefoot man prays at St. Peter's square during the papal conclave on March 12, 2013 in Vatican City. I hope whatever he prays for doesn't dissapoint him.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/4569098-3x2-940x627.jpg

[Lone Bean]

I bet he has an iPad in that satchel!