Especially for women...

[gracieuse]

How your bra may be killing you!

http://www.vivendodaluz.com/EN/articles/bras.html

¤=[Post Update]=¤

And, most cosmetics are full of chemicals and other toxins, some even have heavy metals in them.

Here's an awesome non profit website where you can check out if your product contains any harmful ingredient (search by brand or by ingredient)

http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/

[sheme]

I slung all mine away in 1980 after a vein collapse following a lumpectomy,- no problems ever since. and no groves in my shoulders either.

[gracieuse]

Oh that's interesting, and what about the myth (?) of sagginess? And how did you solve being braless and exercising?

Ive chosen to go in between, I wear bras with only elastic material (wire-free, I have scars from those nasty metal wires :( ) I do have bra-free days but I feel uncomfy with bumps in the road ;)

Funny story: once in summer, I went running with just a tank top. I ran by a group of workers in the street who were fixing the pavement, and one of them stopped and angrily shouted at me that I should put on a bra. Isn't this hilarious, that being braless can offend the male ego? :confused:

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

this thread is epic already and it's only page ONE!

[gracieuse]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Cardrona_bra_fence.jpg

[sheme]

I would say as a female that has handled more than my fair share of female breasts,(used to be a Midwife) my wild things compare pretty well to the rest.

I put a Gilet on if I need to spare any ones blushes. So often people stand talking to me with their arms folded tight, they are so embarrassed about the natural form of the female breast, their body language says it all.

When I get on the ride on lawn mower it is usually when no ones around. LOL

As for male ego -probably not the best time for me to answer that as I have just finished watching "Stepford Wives". Laugh out Loud!

[Vitalux]

Funny story: once in summer, I went running with just a tank top. I ran by a group of workers in the street who were fixing the pavement, and one of them stopped and angrily shouted at me that I should put on a bra. Isn't this hilarious, that being braless can offend the male ego? :confused:


If I had my wish I would have had that worker that shouted at you horse whipped.
I believe wholeheartedly that women should be able to go braless, or even go topless in public.

Why women subject themselves to bras, make-up and high heal shoes is kind of odd to me.
If it was fashionable,or a social norm for women to wear a dead chicken on their head would they do it? :confused:

:noidea:

[sheme]

Yea but she forgot to mention the fact that one of them smacked him in the eye as she ran past! :shocked:

;) laugh please laugh, no horse whipping around here!

[gracieuse]

A much better punishment would be to have him wear a bra for a whole day :p

You are TOTALLY right about being topless, why should a female chest have any different status than a male chest, which interestingly, changes the moment a woman has to breast-feed?

High-heels, agree also. I cannot get myself to wear those since I've started running barefoot, my toes are changing their position, healing I believe after years of wearing heels.

The only point I see for high heels and make up (natural make up) are for events, like theatre, dance shows, etc, anything that goes along with a costume.

Honestly, I believe most women have such sheep-like mentality that they would wear a dead chicken and ostracise anyone that wouldn't. We've done crazier things than that: convincing women and young girls to have plastic surgery (breast augmentation, vaginal surgery, which is called vaginal rejuvenalisation, sickening really), female circumcision, bound feet, emaciation and other forms of self mutilation. It's the women that press these practices on from generation to generation,

[gracieuse]

Oh yeah and these days even the nipples are shameful things that have to be hidden through padding. :twitch:

[GloriousPoetry]

The High Priestess takes her
throne and takes back all that
has been taken from her immaculate
form; life as an intimate child of scorn
she rises above society's masculine
tone and embodies all of the divinities
she was born to perform....

[gracieuse]

> awesome!

[Vitalux]

Oh yeah and these days even the nipples are shameful things that have to be hidden through padding. :twitch:

I am a amature photographer, so over my life time I had taken hundreds of thousands of images of female models both in studios as well as in the environment.

In some regions such as beaches we have actually been harassed because the model was wearing a bikini that some thought showed too much skin.
Other times we were harassed for the model bearing her breasts in a remote part of a public beach, even though the woman doing all the shouting at her, only was in the company of a full grown man.
I was flabbergasted that I had a woman, shouting at young 20 year old woman on the beach for whose only crime was she had exposed her breasts :confused:

Society I am sorry to say, have a long long way to come, and perhaps this is an issue that needs to be addressed more in the media.

I seriously believe that women need to become more empowered, and take an stand to allow this "discrimination" against the human body.

Be proud to have a human body, I think it is absolutely beautiful and there certainly is not anything about the human body that is indecent either.
The sickness in in the mind, not the body.

[RunningDeer]

I've worn the "Moving Comfort Dori" bra for about 5 years. I just discovered it's no longer sold. Here's a video of one that's similar to it with the razor back style. They are well made and offers full support. Really comfortable. No underwire. No shoulder grooves. Fun colors, and last a long, long time if you use cold water and air dry.

Here's a link to a video on the Moving Comfort site (http://www.movingcomfort.com/Sports-Bras/sportsbras,default,sc.html) with the different styles.


LiT_ogD6HhQ

[Vitalux]

I
Here's a link to a video on the Moving Comfort site (http://www.movingcomfort.com/Sports-Bras/sportsbras,default,sc.html) with the different styles.


LiT_ogD6HhQ


I had to laugh in the video when the host of the video said " This bra gives women a natural look"

When in reality, for those who have forgotten
this is what a natural look is

>> natural look (http://images.flu.fr/photo/hd/8247927824/beautes-ebene/4-1469567275.jpg) << Link to image

**note**
Please be advised that the above link shows two bare breasted women on a beach.
Some viewers on Avalon might find it too disturbing to see a bare chested woman ...why ...I don't know :noidea:

[Chester]

How your bra may be killing you!

http://www.vivendodaluz.com/EN/articles/bras.html

¤=[Post Update]=¤

And, most cosmetics are full of chemicals and other toxins, some even have heavy metals in them.

Here's an awesome non profit website where you can check out if your product contains any harmful ingredient (search by brand or by ingredient)

http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/

I never liked bras... nor shaving for that matter... best when natural and unrestricted as "god" made us - justone

Great thread title too - got my immediate attention!

[RunningDeer]

I had to laugh in the video when the host of the video said " This bra gives women a natural look.

Well you've certainly made you point over and over again, Vitalux. There was a time when sports bras use to make one look flat, bound, disfigured and felt God awful uncomfortable. And for some even...claustrophobic. For the fuller figured people, it's nice to have other options on the thread.



I
Here's a link to a video on the Moving Comfort site (http://www.movingcomfort.com/Sports-Bras/sportsbras,default,sc.html) with the different styles.


LiT_ogD6HhQ

I had to laugh in the video when the host of the video said " This bra gives women a natural look"

When in reality, for those who have forgotten
this is what a natural look is

>> natural look (http://images.flu.fr/photo/hd/8247927824/beautes-ebene/4-1469567275.jpg) << Link to image

**note**
Please be advised that the above link shows two bare breasted women on a beach.
Some viewers on Avalon might find it too disturbing to see a bare chested woman ...why ...I don't know :noidea:

[Chester]

The High Priestess takes her
throne and takes back all that
has been taken from her immaculate
form; life as an intimate child of scorn
she rises above society's masculine
tone and embodies all of the divinities
she was born to perform....

Come over to my house where women RULE!

[gracieuse]

Both Paula and Vitalux are right, in the sense that it's about having a choice to be in our natural state or to wear a bra if we feel it's necessary, and in the latter case, it'd better be a bra that is comfy and does no or limited harm to our pristine chests ;)

[Ellisa]

I remember reading that underwires were suspected of causing too much pressure on breast tissue when incorrectly fitted (and who ever has a bra fitted?) It was then suggested that they may be implicated in breast cancer. It was a long time ago but I have chosen to not wear those incredibly uncomfortable wires ever since. It's a good excuse!

And I am firmly of the opinion that the latest fashion flurry of unsafe, uncomfortable and ultimately unworkable high heeled shoes are a form of modern foot binding --- and look hideous too.

[Daughter of Time]

There are a number of bras available these days which are comfortable, wireless, with wide straps which cause no indentations in the shoulders and feel almost like second skin while preventing breasts from bouncing all over the place (for those of us who prefer to wear a bra) - the "ahhh bra" is one of them I've discovered lately which I really like, and there are others similar to this brand.

Also, as the OP states, this thread is not only about bras but also about cosmetics, which can be highly toxic. For those of us who choose to use cosmetics, whether it is because we like them or because our jobs demand that we do, I highly advise you to join "skin deep". I became a member of "skin deep" over 5 years ago after high amounts of lead and other toxins found in cosmetics were found in my system. I do not buy a commercial cosmetic product without checking on "skin deep" first. And there are a number of organic brands which are almost completely free of toxins. My favourite organic cosmetic brand is called: AVALON

[shadowstalker]

Funny I stopped wearing regular bras and switched to sports bras about 10 years ago when I had my first mamagram (sp)done, not a fun time.
Something told me to do it, never had a problem with the sports bra or me since then.

[gracieuse]

I'm so grateful for the response I got on this thread, I'm really happy it sparked a debate anndddd it warped me into avalon membership :laser:

[Samsara]

I have not worn any make-up for a couple of years. What a deliverance! I never did wear a lot, some masacara, and blush in the winter time, but it still took me a while to get used to not wearing any. Women are so bombarded with ads that tell us its the only way for us to be beautiful. You know what ? I'm still beautiful, even more so ... hehe.

I take care of my skin with natural products from my favourite herbalist.

As for the bra, the comfy ones, that I still wear to go out there, it's the first thing to come off once I'm home ! Ahhh......

[sheme]

The Bosom needs to move freely , and should be allowed to wobble up and down from side to side that's what keeps them healthy.

Fibrocystic breast disease is a fact and a condition that approx 50% of women get producing various cysts lumps and bumps and fear .

When boobs feel sore -go play tennis -jog, have a swim, use the ride on lawn mower, (mow the grass) get them moving- preferably with no bra on, you will soon feel more comfortable. For the less mobile- hands together at chest height and push repeatedly for a minute every so often. Peace to your body

[OOO]

I do advise,from experience, to wear some sort of support when breastfeeding.

Not fun going braless, not one little bit!

[Anchor]

Funny story: once in summer, I went running with just a tank top. I ran by a group of workers in the street who were fixing the pavement, and one of them stopped and angrily shouted at me that I should put on a bra.

What a freaking spoilsport. I hope you told him to buzz off ... As a male, I do not support his position.

Here, I have a collection of skipping ropes I would like you to try out :)

(Sorry I am just so immature ;) )

[shadowstalker]

I only wear make-up when i need to get my pic taken, I don't even wear nail polish, on both counts i can't breath (face/hands)

[johnf]

Well, I only wear mine on special nights... so hopefully I am safe.

[enfoldedblue]

I only wear make-up when i need to get my pic taken, I don't even wear nail polish, on both counts i can't breath (face/hands)

Funny you should say that, I feel that too with nail polish...beathing issues. Not to mention it needs to be removed with some toxic smelling substance.

For make-up, when I wear it, I use only a bit of organic minerals, and some lip balm/rouge that I made with beeswax coconut oil rosehip oil and a bit of acai berry for color (the acai berry was an experiment and not 100% successfull...but not too bad)

With a bra for me it depends...sometimes feels uncomfortable and sometimes more comfortable...maybe realated to how I am feeling in my body..not sure.

[RunningDeer]

Both Paula and Vitalux are right, in the sense that it's about having a choice to be in our natural state or to wear a bra if we feel it's necessary, and in the latter case, it'd better be a bra that is comfy and does no or limited harm to our pristine chests ;)

I'm ah-la-naturale at home. But when working out and in light summer wear, I'd rather people look me in the eyes.

[Atlantean Avatar]

I am a D cup and have never liked wearing a bra. When I go down the main street in our town I would wear an underwire bra on its loosest fitting. One day a big tough looking bloke yelled out, "Go home and put a bra on woman. That looks bloody hideous". Everyone just starred at me. I now wear my bra so tight so that they couldn't possibly jiggle even the slightest bit, but as soon as I come home they are the first thing to come off. I agree that they are an uncomfortable device of torture and more importantly they stop lymphatic drainage in breasts. I had a similar experience on the beach when I was 7 months pregnant with my daughter. I was wearing bathers with a big T **** to cover me. A father in his 30s yelled at me. He said it was revolting that he and his young son had to be confronted with the sight of beached whale. That I should do the decent thing and stay out of public view when pregnant because it could scare his son for life. It worked, because my husband was so embarrassed that he refused to be seen in public with me ever again.

I think the more we cover and conceal the true nature of the physical form (especially the feminine) the more revolted with it people (men) get. The only everyday EXPOSURE some men get is a distorted view from porno mags. Most of the subjects are young women who have had silicone implants.

When my daughters are mature women I hope they will experience things differently.

[Vitalux]

I am a D cup and have never liked wearing a bra. When I go down the main street in our town I would wear an underwire bra on its loosest fitting. One day a big tough looking bloke yelled out, "Go home and put a bra on woman. That looks bloody hideous". Everyone just starred at me. I now wear my bra so tight so that they couldn't possibly jiggle even the slightest bit, but as soon as I come home they are the first thing to come off. I agree that they are an uncomfortable device of torture and more importantly they stop lymphatic drainage in breasts. I had a similar experience on the beach when I was 7 months pregnant with my daughter. I was wearing bathers with a big T **** to cover me. A father in his 30s yelled at me. He said it was revolting that he and his young son had to be confronted with the sight of beached whale. That I should do the decent thing and stay out of public view when pregnant because it could scare his son for life. It worked, because my husband was so embarrassed that he refused to be seen in public with me ever again.

I think the more we cover and conceal the true nature of the physical form (especially the feminine) the more revolted with it people (men) get. The only everyday EXPOSURE some men get is a distorted view from porno mags. Most of the subjects are young women who have had silicone implants.

When my daughters are mature women I hope they will experience things differently.


Thank you for sharing this story with us, and heart goes out to you for this most embarrassing experience.

However, it is a shame that people don't have the courage to stand up and defend their rights.
How long can people cry out as victims without having to wonder if your silence is consent.

You had many ways to deal with this experience, and I do not fault you for the way you handled it.
On another note, you could have gotten in that man's face and given him a darn good piece of your mind.

Life does not afford you human rights, it is up to all of us to fight for them and defend them.

Wouldn't it have really been a beautiful sight for both the man, and the man's son, if you had of walked over and slapped that human that was being so cruel right across his face.
Then, walked over and given your husband a darn good slap too for him not defending your honor as a human being.

I really do think that if.....GOD was watching GOD would have been applauding :cheer2: you ....if you would have

[Healthy Skeptic]

Hi Girls.
I'm a Guy (well I was the last time I looked!).
Reading through the Articles and Posts on this thread, I suddenly got a 'Bingo' Moment.
I remember hearing/reading about, many years ago, a warning about Cancer to us guys.
This was about us wearing 'extremely tight jeans'.
This apparently caused the Testicles to be brought 'too close to the body' and caused a 'dramatic' rise in 'Testicular Cancer' amongst men.
Sound Familiar??
OK, I will explain this (as best as I can). Wearing a 'bra' also brings the breasts closer to the body. So therefore, what is the similarity??
In both cases, the "appendages are brought closer to the body, where they 'overheat' when they should be 'hanging naturally'".
Apparently this is a 'great pre-cursor' to Cancer.
Just a thought......Love, HS

[Anchor]

When I go down the main street in our town I would wear an underwire bra on its loosest fitting. One day a big tough looking bloke yelled out, "Go home and put a bra on woman. That looks bloody hideous".

I was wearing bathers with a big T **** to cover me. A father in his 30s yelled at me. He said it was revolting that he and his young son had to be confronted with the sight of beached whale.

Wow.

If anything there is a lesson here about judgement. The judgement of others is opinion. The judgement of self by the self is proper judgement. You elected in that case to accept that judgement, but if that all happened again would you still?

I refuse to accept the judgement of others unless it coincides with my own judgement about myself.

I suppose this applies to breasts and how you manage them as much as it does to anything else in life.


I think the more we cover and conceal the true nature of the physical form (especially the feminine) the more revolted with it people (men) get. The only everyday EXPOSURE some men get is a distorted view from porno mags. Most of the subjects are young women who have had silicone implants.

I have conducted appropriate and significant research in this field. I think its mostly that and Photoshop. Lots and lots of Photoshop, clever lighting and clever angles.


When my daughters are mature women I hope they will experience things differently.

I think there is a good chance things will change for the better. You women will be more in charge the way I see it, and its not before time.

Carla Ruekert in a radio show (she was one of the channels behind the law of one) said men are essentially scared of women because women have the creative ability within them to create new life with their bodies. Its a power men do not possess and the closest we can come to that power is to "dock-up" to it - so to speak.

I am very hopeful things will change.

[Healthy Skeptic]

[QUOTE=Atlantean Avatar;650639]When I go down the main street in our town I would wear an underwire bra on its loosest fitting. One day a big tough looking bloke yelled out, "Go home and put a bra on woman. That looks bloody hideous".

I was wearing bathers with a big T **** to cover me. A father in his 30s yelled at me. He said it was revolting that he and his young son had to be confronted with the sight of beached whale.

As a 'bloke' I am totally 'embarrassed' and 'hang my head in shame'.
I am 'so sorry'. Maybe in your part of the World, Men treat you like that.
They obviously have a problem with the 'size of their MEMBERS!!'.
Their size of 'Their Ego' is obviously 'inversely proportional' to their size of
their 'Prick'!!
Love To All, HS

[Atlantean Avatar]

Unfortunately in the household I was raised in, women were not encouraged to speak up. It was very much a man's world. When I married my husband, I was encouraged by both families that women obeyed. Standing up to very tall, very large biker and his mates just wasn't in me at the time. Fortunately for me when my husband turned 40 he ran off with another woman, leaving me without an income and 5 kids to raise. This has toughened me up a bit so I would like to think if I am in a similar situation I would react very differently.

On a positive my daughters are growing up to be quite feisty individuals. Without their father's influence they are very apt to speak their mind. Hopefully they will also be individual enough to not wear a bra if they don't want to. My eldest already doesn't wear make up.

[Kindling]

Lmao!! John you nutter butter!! Be sure to come on skype vid when you are having one of those special nights - bwahaha!

[Atlantean Avatar]

My part of the world is South Australia. We are considered a bit more conservative than you Victorians. I think some looking back that they were just narrow-minded idiots. I have discovered more recently that there are people who don't care what you wear and theses are the people who's opinion matters most.

[Ellisa]

Whilst it is true that men will comment on womens' appearance in public in a way that women find embarrassing and offensive, it is often the comments of other women which sting the most. We women need to be kinder and more supportive to each other, and less critical and judgemental. Many women do not like to see other women in positions of power, and they also can deliberately undermine each other emotionally.

We also need to bring up our daughters to be independent thinkers who make the most of their opportunities, with opinions that matter- and still be women who have Friends and fun and enjoy their lives. Everyone likes a woman who is happy, capable and optimistic!

All of which seems to be a long way from uncomfortable and unhealthy bras etc. but maybe really isn't.

[Kimberley]

Fun thread...
I have never worn much make up and in the 70's when I was first getting into my radio career I did not ware a bra and got a lot of googling and remarks that did not suit me well so I went back to covering up my nipples and then the remarks stopped... I used wire bras for a short period and they were painful so got rid of them... I breast feed my daughters both for 4 years and really needed a bra to keep my tender nipples from being chafed by shirts.

And non under wire bras keep the bouncing down even though I am only a b cup... Here is a photo of me with out bra in about 1977 or so...much love!

click on the photo to see it larger :-)

[gracieuse]

As a 'bloke' I am totally 'embarrassed' and 'hang my head in shame'.
I am 'so sorry'. Maybe in your part of the World, Men treat you like that.
They obviously have a problem with the 'size of their MEMBERS!!'.
Their size of 'Their Ego' is obviously 'inversely proportional' to their size of
their 'Prick'!!
Love To All, HS

:o Hail to you for your convictions and for stepping out with 'em in this digital minefield of feminists :P

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Fun thread...
I have never worn much make up and in the 70's when I was first getting into my radio career I did not ware a bra and got a lot of googling and remarks that did not suit me well so I went back to covering up my nipples and then the remarks stopped... I used wire bras for a short period and they were painful so got rid of them... I breast feed my daughters both for 4 years and really needed a bra to keep my tender nipples from being chafed by shirts.

And non under wire bras keep the bouncing down even though I am only a b cup... Here is a photo of me with out bra in about 1977 or so...much love!

click on the photo to see it larger :-)

Thanks so much for sharing! I'm surprised you got that kind of negativity in the 70s!

[gracieuse]

Funny story: once in summer, I went running with just a tank top. I ran by a group of workers in the street who were fixing the pavement, and one of them stopped and angrily shouted at me that I should put on a bra.

What a freaking spoilsport. I hope you told him to buzz off ... As a male, I do not support his position.

Here, I have a collection of skipping ropes I would like you to try out :)

(Sorry I am just so immature ;) )

It took me a while to get the joke, I was still thinking of ropes to sling at the neanderthal who made that remark. Now that I get the joke (duh), I'm curious: would you still cherish that fantasy if I had one mini-boob and one huge teabag?


And by the way, how many blokes are checking out this thread :rolleyes:

[gracieuse]

Well, I only wear mine on special nights... so hopefully I am safe.

Check out the link for the website in the first post, you can find the ingredients of your make up and see if they are safe. If they aren't, you don't have the poison yourself, just bring the stuff where it belongs: the chemical waste processing plant

[gracieuse]

I am a D cup and have never liked wearing a bra. When I go down the main street in our town I would wear an underwire bra on its loosest fitting. One day a big tough looking bloke yelled out, "Go home and put a bra on woman. That looks bloody hideous". ... I had a similar experience on the beach when I was 7 months pregnant with my daughter. I was wearing bathers with a big T **** to cover me. A father in his 30s yelled at me. He said it was revolting that he and his young son had to be confronted with the sight of beached whale. That I should do the decent thing and stay out of public view when pregnant because it could scare his son for life. It worked, because my husband was so embarrassed that he refused to be seen in public with me ever again.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that experience, I know how naked it makes you feel. At the same time, I believe life is a mirror and when we are truly and radiantly self-confident, we won't get any crap like that anymore. And I know the difference, that time when I was running without a bra, I was feeling self-concious because I was living in a neighborhood with men from a certain cultural origin that already stalk you at the sight of a short skirt. When I was younger, I would even go dance in very revealing tops wihtout a bra, I didn't care a bit, I got some looks from insecure girls/guys but never hidious remarks!

[gracieuse]

http://mlkshk.com/r/PCSW

[gracieuse]

She's doing what Sheme advises us to do :cool:

http://mlkshk.com/r/PCBD

[Anchor]

It took me a while to get the joke, I was still thinking of ropes to sling at the neanderthal who made that remark.

Dont feel bad about that, I once got told a joke at school which was too adult for my naive childish mind (well I was only about 8), and it took me a whole 8 more years before I remembered it one day - got it - and laughed out loud in the street.

It was about a baby being delivered and giggling and giggling right from as soon as its head was free from its Mum, the delivery staff couldn't work it out but then later one of them noticed it had something in its hand, and when they prized open its fingers they saw a lot of little contraceptive pills.

Of course at 8 I thought they were probably asprin or something and everyone else was laughing so I pretended I got it too and then forgot the whole thing - except that nagging question - why wasnt that funny? 8 years later, mystery solved.


And by the way, how many blokes are checking out this thread :rolleyes:

A good few ;)

[Hazel]

Throw in of a pebble into the pot..

My finding during my long career as a woman, is that women in general, are just as guilty of objectifying themselves and other women, as so many of the male of our species are of 'us'.. making the attempts of rectification by the feminist movement in that regard.. seem redundant.

Such conditioning in self/other sabotage is profigated and capitalised upon by the fashion industry, the music industry and the media. I'm disconcerted by this evidence in the very youngest women of the western world, who's identities are currently being saturated in seemingly one dimensional, highly sexualised portrayals of what women are. Will venture further to say that womens bodies are now being pimped on mass, as itemised 'things' ('whores' of consumption) a commodity in the marketing of pleasure. Sex sells.. yes.. but can the vacuous, depersonalised way the female body is 'seen' culturally become anymore removed from our essence as women?

How can we even connect to what that essence is, when reflected in a house full of skin deep mirrors of the flesh?


Hope l'm not throwing a wowzers wet blanket over the refreshing fun in this thread.. if you think me mistaken in some way, l'd truly appreciate a fresh viewpoint. Conversely of course, you can skip my comment, as the women here seem to be liberated 'bouncy' role models for the girls in their scaffolded push-up bras! :o

[sheme]

Not quite what I advised but it looks comforting! Cold water is supposed to have benefits as well! Ha ha :)

[Healthy Skeptic]

OK, for you Girls.
I'm sure you are all sick of hearing 'Blonde Jokes' ....etc from us 'supposedly humorous Guys'.
So here is a Joke for you Girls to 'get back' at us Guys:

Question: "What do you call the 'useless' piece of skin at the end of a Penis"??
Answer : "A Man"!!!

Cheers!!, HS


:target:

[golden lady]

I too hate wearing bras and when younger I would often go bra less. Now only in the comfort of my home.
However,
My husband and I often go on naturist camping holidays in France. Such freedom. What's strange is its not sexual in any way, plenty of eye contact. The people are great and more like minded.
I thoroughly recommend it.

[EsmaEverheart]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassiere

According to Wikipedia, 75–85% of women wear a bra of an incorrect size. I had all the problems mentioned in this thread and hated wearing a bra until around 4 years ago when I went into a bra shop and was measured and got my correct bra size. Now wearing the right sized bra is a much more comfortable experience for me.

[4evrneo]

Interesting thread !
funny thing for me is that I grew up mostly with boys so I was tomboyish myself haha. I also as a teen thought girls were ridiculous, only thinking about their looks and such....but in my mid 20's I started torturing myself, makeup, heels, etc.

I actually last year stopped wearing makeup and these days prefer being natural, yay for me !

The only bad comments I get are from my boss who hates my half-sleeve tattoo but living in AZ I refuse to wear long sleeve shirts !

[conk]

My sister went to a business convention with one of her co-workers who was exceptionally well built, from a man's perspective anyway. The young girl, in my sister's words, was gloriously endowed. My sis is also sort of big on top and she and the girl were talking about finding bras that fit, etc. Some random guy saw them fiddling with their bras and perhaps over heard the conversation and came over to chat. It seems his eyes were glued to the other girl's breasts for inordinate amounts of time. At one point he asked the girl a question, all the while staring at her chest. She looked down at her breasts and told the guy "they don't talk".

[jookyle]

How about nipple tassels? I wear them all the time, I certainly don't want my nips falling off.

[sheme]

What are they for?

[Hazel]

In answer to your question, dontya' know tassels attached to nipples are for
X-treme Mammary Games
and various other astonishing purposes:

Mesmorisation
Tittie Tossing
Eroticising nipple rippling
Tit Hoopla (training)
Goggle eye whipping
Wind velocity detection
Intergalactic antenne
Encoded signalling

:p

[sheme]

Hmm Well you can if you want to I hope you enjoy. blessings and light to all.

[Satkirn]

In answer to your question, dontya' know tassels attached to nipples are for
X-treme Mammary Games
and various other astonishing purposes:

Mesmorisation
Tittie Tossing
Eroticising nipple rippling
Tit Hoopla (training)
Goggle eye whipping
Wind velocity detection
Intergalactic antenne
Encoded signalling

:p

ROFL i think my favorite was Intergalactic antennae...really should get me a pair of those!

[Satkirn]

Okay this post has nothing to do with bras and guys brace yourself for a more intimate post; since it is called "especially for women" I thought Id share something which had been invaluable to me being a woman. So I went to an alternative boarding school in India and one of the things that I loved the most was the community amongst the women there and one thing I learned was that honey can really help with yeast infections or any mild types of discomforts, like itchiness or dryness. It has saved me couple of visits to the gynecologist.

You just pretty much apply it topically before you shower and leave it on for 5 minutes or so. Just make sure its organic and has no additives.
I'm not exactly yet sure why it works yet but its worked for me and many other women I know.

Just thought Id share and I'm really loving the energy in this thread and also the supportive remarks of all the guys that have left a comment! Its really great thank you for starting this thread. :)

http://femaleurologyaz.blogspot.com.ar/2012/05/yogurt-and-bee-honey-in-vagina-can-help.html

http://www.benefits-of-honey.com/yeast-infection.html

[genevieve]

Having nothing to do with bras, but as an addition to Satkirn's helpful post, since, as she said, this is a thread especially for us gals, I'd like to add a tea recipe for cystitis (aka: bladder infection).

You know you probably have a bladder infection when you have a constant ache in your lower abdomen, you feel like you have to pee very frequently, at the end of peeing it feels like a lance is piercing you, and sometimes the infection gets so bad that there's blood in your urine.

CYSTITIS HERBAL TEA

Boil 3 cups of water.
Turn down heat to simmer.
Add 1 Tablespoon echinacea.
Cover.
Simmer 20 minutes.
Remove from heat.

Add 1 1/2 tsps of Herb Mix:
Herb Mix:
1 1/2 teaspoons juniper berries
1 Tablespoon yarrow flowers
1 Tablespoon uva ursi
1 Tablespoon cornsilk (or 8 drops of cornsilk extract)
Stir.
Cover.
Let steep for 15 minutes.

Drink 1 cup each day for 10-14 days.

Pain will probably subside quickly (within two days), but you MUST
keep drinking the tea for 10-14 days in order to kill the infection.


This tea has worked for people (men, too) who had bladder infections for
as long as six months (!) and were getting nowhere with pharmaceuticals,
so don't despair. Try it!


Peace Love Joy & Harmony,
Genevieve

[gracieuse]

Howdy boys and girls! Thanks everyone for their contributions :) for natural remedies check out http://www.earthclinic.com/, gotta love that website! if the honey and herbal tea remedies are not on there yet, please add them there, I think they're valuable!

By the way, this is relevant for both men and women, check your shampoos, creams, conditioners, soaps and anything you apply to your skin/hair, it's not just cosmetics that have insane ingredients put into them. Take for example "sodium laureth sulfate", its a very common ingredient in skin/haircare products, and its very agressive to your body as well as a harmful pollutant for the surface water. What basically happens is, it completely degreases your skin and hair, and actually that grease forms a natural barrier to protect your skin and hair. So removing everything leaves your skin and hair vulnerable for damage and harmful substances, causing skin problems or long term health effects.

Some years ago I got off products with harsh substances and after a "detox" period where your skin and hair are a little bit more greasy than normal, the results are astounding. I first switched to organic soap-free shampoos, and now Im on conditioner only. My scalp used to be so greasy, now it's so balanced I only have to do a 'touch up' once a week, sometimes even longer, and my hair smells fresh all along. So the glands actually overproduce grease in reaction to all the harsh products (so if you have a problem with "greasy" hair/skin, it may actually be caused by dryness) And guess what, I only have to go to the hair dresser for split ends once every six months! Similar story as for my skin, I don't use any kind of soap, actually only creams to clean it, but usually it does not require even that, just water suffices (which also has to do with eating patterns of course). Also here, I used to have greasy skin and I've discovered it's actually on the dry side!

Ok, enough for my "amazing discoveries".

Just think about it. Another example: parabens, they can act as hormones in your body and mess up your reproductive system! All of this information and much more, supported by solid research, can be found in the skin deep website (see post 1). There are so many choice on the market, you don't have to put up with it!

As for the bra-cancer link, I think the observation made earlier by one of the blokes in relation to too tight underwear is valuable. I'd like to add another thought to that: the metal in the underwire acts as an antenna for radio-magnetic frequencies. The link between cancer and electro-magnetic frequencies, as well as other health-problems, is become ever-more convincing. So basically, you're amplifying the radiation close to your vital organs - heart and lungs! However way you want to put it, electromagnetic fields disturb the human body, as our bodies' cells as well as the earth, plant and wildlife use a low frequency to communicate...

Something that also crossed my mind:I saw it proven in a documentary how the 'normal' model bra shifts the burden to the shoulder/upper back area, instead of doing what it should be doing: evenly spreading pressure. A bra with crossed strapped does a better job at that. I don't remember if anything was said about wiring and I couldnt find the video anymore...

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Excerpt from a documentary, this is sickening really, this is how young girls are convinced their vagina is abnormal. And excuse me, how does it lead to anything but sexual desentisation when you cut out part(s) that are thick with nerve-ends?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX7ebcfyMxQ

[gracieuse]

I realise this is a sensitive topic, yet I am going to state my bold opinion here noting that I don't mean to offend anyone: the trend in the above video, plus the pressure on women to have all their pubic hair removed, maybe even in combination with hormonal birth control, are tools to suppress the core of female power. Think about it, what is left when you slice inner lips and remove all the hair? The vagina of an 7-year old.

This is why I got furious when a member of the male species demanded in a slithery way that I should remove all of my hair there (which I found humiliating). No one gets any say over any of my hair but me. I'll decide if and when I shave/trim and what/where. Don't like it? Bugger off. He called this dictatorship! Since when is self-determination dictatorship?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

This is also a good watch, the only thing I miss in this docu is the effect of surgery on sexual experience.


http://vimeo.com/groups/43127/videos/4704237

[Pam]

"honestly, I believe most women have such sheep-like mentality that they would wear a dead chicken and ostracise anyone that wouldn't. We've done crazier things than that: convincing women and young girls to have plastic surgery (breast augmentation, vaginal surgery, which is called vaginal rejuvenalisation, sickening really), female circumcision, bound feet, emaciation and other forms of self mutilation. It's the women that press these practices on from generation to generation,"

Don't forget the dead fox around the neck.....I am also blown away by the mega sized fake nails some woman are willing to put up with.I have worked with other nurses that wear these things and are probably harboring so much bacteria under them. Watching them try to do their jobs with these talon like extensions glued to the tips of their fingers is entertaining in a weird sort of way....anyway, this is a wonderful thread...the bra-cancer link makes so much sense....I love you all my sisters...take care.

[Anchor]

Keep it up girls and boys.

This is an important thread.

I'm peripherally interested in the whole birth control thing.

We (Mr and Mrs Anchor) never wanted children and I have read this is a common trait of wanderers of our kind (I am pretty sure Mrs A and I are from the same kinds of origin - if not exactly the same group).

At the beginning of our quite long relationship we were at it like rabbits, the old wives tale that every time you make love you put a penny in jar, then after two years you take a penny out of the jar instead and you never empty the jar seem stupid.

However, we did not want children and so precautions were taken.

Now, over 20years later I realize that the old wives tale was probably quite accurate.

Currently Mr and Mrs Anchor are practically celibate. We were not always this way but we drifted into it and we each are fine with it. We love each other, are happy, and confuse our parents because they think we need marriage guidance or something which is as funny as hell because our relationship is better than any of those in our immediate family (based on what we see and know). Most of the time we even sleep in separate rooms because that we we sleep better. I snore, she snores etc.

At the start Mrs A was using the contraceptive pill, but over time we figured this was causing her a range of problems, but mostly to do with mandatory visits to the doctor.

In the end I figured that I could just as well do with barrier methods, and this enabled Mrs A to not have to ingest any big pharma product just so we could carry on with baby free fun.

As time has moved on, and we both have become more aware of what is what, we are more comfortable, penetrative sex is not so necessary but intimacy still is very much important.

So that's my context.

Birth control methods we have tried:

a) hormonal (contraceptive pill)
b) barrier (male worn)
c) interruptus
d) abstinence

Never tried the IUD - that seems like a very odd thing to want to do.

Never tried the female barrier methods - also seemed to be an imposition on her, and required chemicals. I just became adept at getting my glove on for love, in a non spoiling the moment kind of way as possible. This remains the method we use, until the passage of time makes this particular challenge end.

Neither of us will have any surgery to accomplish this..

Thoughts?

[CdnSirian]

Very important thread. And where else could I mention this book?

http://www.amazon.com/Vagina-New-Biography-Naomi-Wolf/dp/0061989169/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1363916613&sr=1-1&keywords=naomi+wolf+vagine

In fact, searching for this on amazon, you get "vagine" and "vigina". No vagina! What's up with that amazon doesn't even list it on the search - you get the result with a "did you mean"? Yeah I meant!!

This book is lengthy, clinical, sociological, and beyond relevant, for women and men. It's about War and Peace. Totally bra related - like get those things bound tight!

I have read this whole thread so thanks ALL above... it's all highly relevant.

A friend posted on FB today that her daughter was instructed in college induction as to "how to avoid rape". There was no instruction "don't rape"!

It's all still bass ackwards!

[gracieuse]

I'm peripherally interested in the whole birth control thing. (...)

Thoughts?

Thanks Anchor for sharing your personal story, it's a great contribution to the discussion. It's "funny" that you mention this topic, because I was just reading about it yesterday. I stumbled upon this website, where dr. Mony Vital explains how refraining from having orgasms, which I understand to be orgasms in the genitals, lengthens the life span.

http://www.energeticbalancing.us/cumfreejoy/

This wisdom seems to find support in the Tao, see the works of Mantak Chia, some of it is available for free on script. I was browsing on (exclusively male :o) fora about his work, where men where sharing having total body orgasms when they let go of the need to ejaculate.

Concerning birth control, Chia also explains that women can stop their menstrual cycles, like an energetic sterilisation or menopause, but this one is reversible :p Haven't tried, but it seems totally awesome to control your own fertility. And, according to CHia, menstruation drains women;s energy!

Similarly, Camila Castillo also hosts a workshop where women can inter alia learn birth control through intent. (havent tried) I find all of this ravishly interesting!

http://akahmi.com/teachings/feminine-bliss

[gracieuse]

A friend posted on FB today that her daughter was instructed in college induction as to "how to avoid rape". There was no instruction "don't rape"!

This is shocking indeed. Last year, I was sexually assaulted and almost raped. Turned out a girl in my neighborhood had been targeted by the same offender, almost kidnapped. She had tried to report it to the police, who told her she had "probably provoked him in one way or another". 2012, one of the richest north-western european countries. HELLO?!

This story kept me from going to the police a long time, fortunately my story was taken in.

It seems our society has still not outgrown the mini-skirt paradigm.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Moral dilemma: would you bring your old toxic make up to the chemical waste processing plant or give it away to women who really don't care and use toxic stuff anyway?

[Anchor]

From the article:

http://www.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views/dl-opinion/is-this-photo-grounds-for-death-20130325-2gpi2.html

Emphasis in the quote below is mine.


Two weeks ago, a young Tunisian woman known only by the name “Amina” posted political self portraits to Facebook to protest the continued oppression of women in the Arab world’s first democracy.

Posing topless, one photo featured Amina smoking with the Arabic declaration “my body belongs to me, and is not the source of the honor of anyone” scrawled across her chest; the other showed Amina standing defiantly, her middle fingers raised to camera, and the English words “F--- your morals” blaring out from her body.

Today, Amina is in a psychiatric hospital, admitted there against her will by family members who’ve expressed shame over her actions. Her aunt appeared in a YouTube video to declare, “Amina does not exist anymore for me. She is responsible for her acts, and we are devastated by what she did. Our family is educated and open-minded and we did everything we could for her. Her father has been crying and has been in a miserable state.” She later added, “I hope she pays for her actions. She does not represent her country or Tunisian women.”

While Amina’s aunt may deny her niece’s actions speak for or even to Tunisian women, not everyone agrees. The Wahabi Salafi preacher Almi Adel, head of the almost comically titled Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, warned Tunisian newspaper Kapitalis, "Her act could bring about an epidemic. It could be contagious and give ideas to other women. It is therefore necessary to isolate [the incident]. I wish her to be healed."
Advertisement

It’s tempting to mock the preacher’s words for the crude expression of fear that they are. If women begin to think for themselves and question their environments, they might then demand their own liberation from the kinds of patriarchal societies that empower men like Adel to wield control over them. Perhaps even more terrifying is the possibility that they might succeed.

Unfortunately, the consequence of men like Adel having power is that they do wield it. And his proposed solution to ‘isolating the incident’ is to execute Amina in accordance with his misreading of sharia law. “The young lady should be punished according to sharia, with 80 to 100 lashes, but [because of] the severity of the act she has committed, she deserves be stoned to death.”

It doesn’t stop there. Even if Amina escapes such barbaric treatment (and the arrogance in determining that a woman who rejects the cultural mores of her society and demands her rights ‘deserves’ to be stoned to death is nothing short of barbaric), Tunisian secular law could still punish her with up to two years in prison and a fine between 100 - 1000 dinars (around $80 to $800).

And all of this because she defied Tunisia’s moral codes to express herself politically alongside a group all too familiar with inciting the wrath of conservative governance.

The group in question was Ukrainian born feminist protest group Femen. Amina was in the process of setting up a Tunisian offshoot of the activist organisation and had posted the photos to their Facebook page. (That page has since been hacked, with the photos removed and replaced with Quranic verses).

Since its evolution, Femen’s goal has been to challenge patriarchal codes of ownership. Its Paris based director, Inna Schevchenko, achieved global notoriety after she marched to the top of a hill overlooking Kieve, stripped down to nothing but a pair of red denim shorts and work boots and proceeded to chop down a 13ft cross with a chainsaw. The protest coincided with the handing down of judgment for the three members of Russian feminist protest group Pussy Riot; on that day in Kiev, Schevchenko had scrawled “Free Riot” across her chest. The action earned Schevchenko death threats and unwanted attention from the government. After her front door was kicked in, she escaped with only $50, a mobile phone and a passport and made her way to France where she now trains more Femen activists, or warriors as they refer to themselves as. (You can read more about Femen’s activities in this Guardian profile.)

Femen’s methods are problematic for some feminists - early on in their advent, organisers realised that it was nudity that got the attention of the media and the public. Given they protest vehemently against the sex industry, likening it to fascism and even using Nazi imagery as a comparison, their reliance on flesh to translate important messages seems counter intuitive. How can a group so decidedly against the commodification of women’s bodies fall back on that titillation to protest? Schevchenko justifies the approach as a form of reclamation. "A woman's naked body has always been the instrument of the patriarchy," she says, "they use it in the sex industry, the fashion industry, advertising, always in men's hands. We realised the key was to give the naked body back to its rightful owner, to women, and give a new interpretation of nudity ... I'm proud of the fact that today naked women are not just posing on the cover of Playboy, but can be at an action, angry, and can irritate people."

This is certainly true in the case of Amina, whose experience of life as a woman in Tunisia was evidently so suffocating that she reached out to an international feminist protest group whose central thesis was the restoration of women’s bodies to their rightful owners. As yet, no one has been allowed contact with the teenager, who remains incarcerated in a psychiatric ward (which has historically been the bleak fate for many women who challenged the notions of propriety in their communities).

So what can you do to help? You can follow Maryam Namazie on Free Thought Blogs, who is updating news about Amina where she can. You can also sign this Change petition, which is looking for 150,000 signatures. You can follow and tweet at the #Amina hashtag on Twitter to show your support for women’s autonomy over their own bodies, free from fear of government or community retribution. And you might consider participating in Namazie’s International Day To Defend Amina, called for April 4. Namazie is urging groups and individuals to post topless photos of themselves and their activism on social media sites, and to remind ‘the world that the real epidemic and disaster that must be challenged is misogyny - Islamic or otherwise.”

Whatever your view on the use of breasts as a benign western political statement, nudity can be a powerful statement of protest in countries where women’s bodies are more forcefully appropriated and governed by the law. Amina’s only crime was reclaiming her body as her own, and using it to protest the patriarchal values of a society that demanded it be covered in order to preserve the honour of others. In a rational society, breasts have no more power to hurt anyone than a gentle breeze can blow down a house made of bricks. But when a fear of naked female flesh and a woman’s right to dictate what is done with her own body pervades so deeply that the wilful display of it could result in her own execution, breasts can become bombs.

[shadowstalker]

She's doing what Sheme advises us to do :cool:

http://mlkshk.com/r/PCBD
My daughter says this when ever folks get stupid......... Bwahaha

[Healthy Skeptic]

I realise this is a sensitive topic, yet I am going to state my bold opinion here noting that I don't mean to offend anyone: the trend in the above video, plus the pressure on women to have all their pubic hair removed, maybe even in combination with hormonal birth control, are tools to suppress the core of female power. Think about it, what is left when you slice inner lips and remove all the hair? The vagina of an 7-year old.

This is why I got furious when a member of the male species demanded in a slithery way that I should remove all of my hair there (which I found humiliating). No one gets any say over any of my hair but me. I'll decide if and when I shave/trim and what/where. Don't like it? Bugger off. He called this dictatorship! Since when is self-determination dictatorship?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

This is also a good watch, the only thing I miss in this docu is the effect of surgery on sexual experience.


http://vimeo.com/groups/43127/videos/4704237

What we have here, unfortunately, is the Prime Example of
"Man's/Women's Inhumanity to Man/Women".
It really 'makes me sick'.
With Love To All, HS

[CdnSirian]

Partial, from Anchor: "Femen’s methods are problematic for some feminists - early on in their advent, organisers realised that it was nudity that got the attention of the media and the public. Given they protest vehemently against the sex industry, likening it to fascism and even using Nazi imagery as a comparison, their reliance on flesh to translate important messages seems counter intuitive. How can a group so decidedly against the commodification of women’s bodies fall back on that titillation to protest? Schevchenko justifies the approach as a form of reclamation. "A woman's naked body has always been the instrument of the patriarchy," she says, "they use it in the sex industry, the fashion industry, advertising, always in men's hands. We realised the key was to give the naked body back to its rightful owner, to women, and give a new interpretation of nudity ... I'm proud of the fact that today naked women are not just posing on the cover of Playboy, but can be at an action, angry, and can irritate people."

I find this the wrong approach. Not that any approach has worked for feminism yet, the views get hijacked so fast that one wonders....is it not just another dialectic trap to keep smart people busy? Still no resolution.

Women and men can both use the power that everyone has - where to spend their money. All the places where "sex sells" don't buy! And not to some crazy extreme - but all those magazines and badly made sexy clothes and poison make up and other cosmetics.

Even a lot of men say they are attracted to the glow of health in a woman, the vitality and humor and "hang out" factor. I know some guys still say that if sex isn't obviously imminent, they don't have time --fine, they'll grow up one day, or not.

A guy who wants a grown woman to shave pubic hair? Sounds like he really wants to have sex with a little girl. Loaded topics, all.

But it's all about money folks! Control of women is control of property and others' labor or incomes.

Women want bras for comfort - and there are so few! I mean after the hundred + years not one bra designer has tried to get them sold in halves so you can get the real size you want on each side.

Oh yeah that's on that other planet. ;)

[Anchor]

I'm a man and equipped with male programming and biases. I have learned that Men will always have those. I'm as sure as I can be that females have their own set.

This we have been set-up for conflict between the sexes, one that has been easy pickings for the "elite" to make worse through materialistic things that are aimed at the red and orange ray aspects of our beings.

They set us apart from each-other, taking root physically, emotionally and even mentally.

I am of the opinion that this polarity is designed for a purpose, but we have made it more extreme. As with any duality we are challenged to seek balance, and learn acceptance, tolerance, forgiveness yet also when and when not to be assertive; our drivers being the need to express love, wisdom and compassion.

The challenge as I see it, in finding balance, is at the first step, which is the defining of the fulcrum point that the scales hang.

I think our problem is that the fulcrum has been shifted to the wrong place.

We play at yin and yang, but we have too much yang - and many of us con ourselves - or have been conned - into thinking that is the way it should be.

[gracieuse]

I'm really appreciating the in depth discussion going on here. Id like to drop another hint for women: look into menstrual cups. For those who haven't heard of it: it's a medical grade silicone bell shaped cup that holds your menstrual flow. It's reusable and hygienic becuase you sterilise it, it breathes and your vagina will be very thankful (as well as mother earth for all the waste you're saving). No vagina likes bleach, fibres and plastic... Look up the cup, there are many types, forms, sizes and shapes. Economical as well... :cheer2:

[aceninja]

Link on Natural Law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_law - reference Thomas Hobbs.

I personally believe we've completely thrown out the baby with the bath water with respect to social norms and general manners.

We don't respect each other in anymore such that people now feel no obligation to see things from the other person's perspective. We seem to look at things from an extremely selfish perspective.

The story about the woman on the beach with her tummy out: Why deliberately put yourself in a confrontational position where you know people will be offended and force people to "deal with it". Stop wearing bras, men will stare at your chest - its distracting. Men are attracted to women and it doesn't make a man an animal or any less evolved: it just means that men are attracted to women in a sexual way.

It's pretty oxymoronic to "revolt" against a bra which is an object of order in favor of going topless and expect no one to be distracted or interested in your goods. You can't say stop thinking about me sexually, and then decide to become a nudist. And when men do finally stop becoming aroused by a woman's nude there is something wrong with the man.

This happens time and time again. Women try to change men, and when men give them what they asked for they don't want it (this is a very common complaint with almost any man). This is a general statement and on the average this is for the most part true.

Why can't men and women continue to work together and have a sense of harmony. I'm surprised this ideology is present on Avalon because this isn't the average "man" that objectifies women. It is an institutional illusion given to both sides by the PTB. It is illuminati or whatever agendas there are to divide and conquer.

And my strong opinion is that the feminist movement (as applied in real world practice) is an arm of the systematic destruction of the family and the perpetuation of the destroyed family. This probably the infinite loop that the ouroboros represents...

If women want to be the provider of their households (single or not) do not complain about your added responsibilities. If you want to work as a perfect team, do not step on each others shoes and complain about having to be superwoman.

Men are physically stronger because they are built to defend their families from harm but tend to lack the emotional capacities of the woman. Women are naturally stronger emotionally because they are built to be the spiritual heads of the family and to be nurturers of the family. Who is there for a man when he's hurt from defending or providing for his family? Who often has the strongest relationship with the children? Who do grown men always thank for their support and achievements? Hint- it ain't dad.

Life isn't a one-size-fits-all. This cross section has always been. There have always been single mothers, married couples, widows/widowers, divorced, perpetually single, etc. What is different is this CONVERGENCE or forcing everyone to conform to a singular system of everything. This is evident in entertainment, all commerce, religion, spirituality, etc. Sexism is not the act of recognizing difference in gender. Sexism is oppressing based on untrue gender stereotypes. A stereotype is an UNTRUE generalization or a caricature and is different from an archetype. Archetypes are based on true elements. People confuse an archetype with a stereotype which makes it easy to categorize many things as sexist and racist.

We are supposed to be a little more selfless and do what is best for the whole and ourselves without encroaching on each other's freewill. Impeding other people's freedom of choice is indeed wrong. The trick to peace and success in general is MUTUAL cooperation, not insurrection.

Edit: Because I didn't mention everything doesn't mean I intentionally left it out. There are only so many characters in these posts.

[Daughter of Time]

Keep it up girls and boys.

This is an important thread.

I'm peripherally interested in the whole birth control thing.

We (Mr and Mrs Anchor) never wanted children and I have read this is a common trait of wanderers of our kind (I am pretty sure Mrs A and I are from the same kinds of origin - if not exactly the same group).

At the beginning of our quite long relationship we were at it like rabbits, the old wives tale that every time you make love you put a penny in jar, then after two years you take a penny out of the jar instead and you never empty the jar seem stupid.

However, we did not want children and so precautions were taken.

Now, over 20years later I realize that the old wives tale was probably quite accurate.

Currently Mr and Mrs Anchor are practically celibate. We were not always this way but we drifted into it and we each are fine with it. We love each other, are happy, and confuse our parents because they think we need marriage guidance or something which is as funny as hell because our relationship is better than any of those in our immediate family (based on what we see and know). Most of the time we even sleep in separate rooms because that we we sleep better. I snore, she snores etc.

At the start Mrs A was using the contraceptive pill, but over time we figured this was causing her a range of problems, but mostly to do with mandatory visits to the doctor.

In the end I figured that I could just as well do with barrier methods, and this enabled Mrs A to not have to ingest any big pharma product just so we could carry on with baby free fun.

As time has moved on, and we both have become more aware of what is what, we are more comfortable, penetrative sex is not so necessary but intimacy still is very much important.

So that's my context.

Birth control methods we have tried:

a) hormonal (contraceptive pill)
b) barrier (male worn)
c) interruptus
d) abstinence

Never tried the IUD - that seems like a very odd thing to want to do.

Never tried the female barrier methods - also seemed to be an imposition on her, and required chemicals. I just became adept at getting my glove on for love, in a non spoiling the moment kind of way as possible. This remains the method we use, until the passage of time makes this particular challenge end.

Neither of us will have any surgery to accomplish this..

Thoughts?

The most natural contraceptive method for me has been getting to know my body and its ovulation process.

Pregnancy does not occur just before, during and immediately after menstruation.

After menstruation the vaginal fluids are thin. Once they become thicker, about 1 week after menstruation for a woman with a regular cycle, the ovary is preparing to release ova and penetration should not occur unless a condom or other methods are used. About 3 days after ovulation, the ova dissolve so the sperm will not find anything to penetrate. However, this works only for women whose cycle is normal - approx. 26 to 30 days. If the cycle changes from month to month, this method will not work. Also, if the woman's cycle is very short (less than 21 days) this method will not work either as ovulation happens much sooner than in a woman with a regular cycle.

A basal thermometer used every morning upon arising is an accurate indicator of when ovulation occurs. From menstruation to ovulation the temperature will be lower. At ovulation time the temperature rises about .4 degrees and then drops again during menstruation. For the average woman, body temperature before ovulation will be around 36.8 and rises to 37.2 at ovulation. Using a basal thermometer may seem inconvenient at the beginning, but once it becomes a habit, it only takes one minute upon awakening every morning to know what the body is doing. However, by the time ovulation occurs, it may already be too late as sperm deposited in the vagina a couple of days before ovulation can still be alive and capable of fertilizing the ova. So it takes some diligence on the woman's part to get to know her body. This is relatively easy if one has a regular cycle as a woman will be able to notice the vaginal changes. This natural (rhythm) method, however, is not advisable for irregular cycles.

However, pregnancy will not occur just before and during menstruation regardless of the length of the cycle. The number of days of safety after menstruation is what changes from woman to woman according to the length of her cycle.

And personally, I don't feel it's necessary to have penetration on days close to ovulation. There are many ways to make love.

[Anchor]

Aceninja,

Your post was good and thought provoking. Lots to agree with in it.


I personally believe we've completely thrown out the baby with the bath water with respect to social norms and general manners.

I agree, and I am not sure where to start to rebuild. Somehow we unplugged nature. Lots of people moved in to cities and away from nature. Nature became something to exploit rather than work with. I am sure as I can be, nature is the way back to solving some of our issues - or at least a healed nature - one that has not itself become twisted due to the strength of our own twisted creations.

[Anchor]

Moral dilemma: would you bring your old toxic make up to the chemical waste processing plant or give it away to women who really don't care and use toxic stuff anyway?

If you give it away you will prevent them, at least for a while, buying new stuff. Also there is the possibility of planting a seed of a thought as to the reasons why you are doing this in their mind.

IMO the solution to most moral dilemmas comes down to an honest analysis of intent and the answer is going to be different for different people.

[northstar]

I had a similar experience on the beach when I was 7 months pregnant with my daughter. I was wearing bathers with a big T **** to cover me. A father in his 30s yelled at me. He said it was revolting that he and his young son had to be confronted with the sight of beached whale. That I should do the decent thing and stay out of public view when pregnant because it could scare his son for life.
When my daughters are mature women I hope they will experience things differently.

When I was six months pregnant I was in an elevator and I was told by a total stranger, a young man, that if I wanted to be healthy I should lose weight. I didn't say anything to him because back then I was a lot more polite than I am now. But I do remember thinking he must be pretty dense!!

A few days after the delivery when I still had quite a few pounds of baby weight to lose I was walking alone in a shopping mall and a group of teenage boys sitting on a bench started making "moo" sounds when I walked in front of them. Again, I didn't say anything because the very essence of a bullying situation is being outnumbered.

[gracieuse]

@ aceninja: thanks for shedding another, important light to the debate. I agree with the framework you set, but not how you fill it in. Yes, it's important that men and women work together, that we step beyond stereotypes, and that we act selflessly.

At the same time I would like to pose some counterquestions:
- what can possibly be confrontational about a pregnancy or about naturally-shaped breast? Who has thrown the baby out with bath water, the one who instructs women (and men also but to a lesser degree) their bodies should look in a certain way, or the one who claims back her/his power?
I do agree with one thing: once we (men AND women) claim back our power, we should be prepared for "negative" reactions from others, since by the very act itself we will be a threat to traditional structures. When you truly stand in your power, no reaction from anyone can bug you or harm you anymore.

- isn't a pregnancy the most amazing sign of bringing forth a new life, and thus divine in itself and should be honored as such? And yes, this is beyond cliches - I know a man who just adores pregnant women and finds them even more attractive than non-pregnant women :)

- concerning feminism: I think the only way to bring the balance back in families is stepping beyond the hunter-gatherer cliche, so that both mom and dad or both moms and both dads can take responsibility, financially, emotionally and in whatever other way as parent. So many configurations are possible (both parents working, one working, one stay at home) and the strength versus emotion paradigm i.m.h.o. is an old world classification that does not do justice to the capacities of each individual. Some men are more "ying" and some women are more "yang"...

I'd like to close off with quote by Eckhart Tolle, from a "new earth", which gives us all something to think about from a historical perspective (which again, I think is shifting):

"The suppression of the feminine principle especially over the past two thousand years has enabled the ego to gain absolute supremacy in the collective human psyche. Although women have egos, of course, the ego can take root and grow more easily in the male form than in the female. This is because women are less mind-identified than men. (...) The female form is less rigidly encapsulated than the male, has greater openness and sensitivity toward other life forms, and is more attuned to the natural world.
If the balance between male and female energies had not been destroyed on our planet, the ego's growth would have been greatly curtailed. We would not have declared war on nature, and we would not be so completely alienated from our Being.
Nobody knows the exact figure (...) but it seems certain that during a three-hundred-year period between three and five million women were tortured and killed by the "Holy Inquisition" (...). The sacred feminine was declared demonic, and an entire dimension largely disappeared from human experience. (...) Women's status was reduced to being child bearers and men's property. Male who denied the feminine within themselves were now running the world ... The rest is history or rather a case history of insanity. (...) What is it that suddenly made men feel threatened by the female? The evolving ego in them. It knew it could gain full control of our planet only through the male form, and to do so, it had to render the female powerless.
In time, the ego also took over most women, although it could never become as deeply entrenched in them as in men. We now have a situation in which the suppression of the feminine has become internalized, even in most women. The sacred feminine, because it is suppressed, is felt by many women as emotional pain. In fact, it has become part of their pain-body, together with the accumulated pain suffered by women over millennia through childbirth, rape, slavery, torture and violent death." (p. 155-157)
Interestingly, Tolle describes how this pain body become active before and during menstruation (hence, PMS)...

[gracieuse]

.
Women want bras for comfort - and there are so few! I mean after the hundred + years not one bra designer has tried to get them sold in halves so you can get the real size you want on each side.

Oh yeah that's on that other planet. ;)

Why don't you design and market one? You can earn a very good living! I will be your first client. But please don't put any metal wires in it :eek:

[gracieuse]

Northstar: The most natural contraceptive method for me has been getting to know my body and its ovulation process.

I think, for methods like this to work, as well as birth control through intent, which is one step further, you have to have a very close relationship with your body and the depths of your psyche. If you have any deep desires for getting pregnant, your body will respond to that and play 'tricks' that are hard to keep up with, even with all the measuring tools, such as the shifting of the ovulation, or even spontaneous ovulation. The body is capable of so many things, but will always respond to our mental instructions.

which is why I think this method has not been found to be very safe in clinical trials...

[sheme]

Stop press I have just finished listening to a utube interview with Mr Barrie Trower, Vital information for everyone. But with all the gems that are here one thing most relevant to this topic he states that microwaves that are present in the atmosphere do cause cancer and breast tissue is very susceptible to these waves Especially if they are WIRED BRAS as they accumulate these cancer causing waves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSBN4YxYORU

[gracieuse]

Haha beat this bra industry!

BETTER OFF WITHOUT A BRA (http://www.thelocal.fr/page/view/breasts-better-off-without-bras-french-study#.UWfs8Rl4JFQ)

[mosquito]

Having worked as a physical therapist, I can confirm that the majority of women, in the UK at least, wear the wrong size bra. I would sometimes be amazed at how anyone could continue wearing something so obviously the wrong size, couldn't they see or feel the bright red grroves in their bodies ? No one would walk around in shoes which were 4 sizes too small, would they ?

Anyway, I recently was browsing for a bra for my girlfriend who is a Filipina, so I knew her size to be 34B, and being in China, where they use metric measurements, I simply converted 34 inches into centimetres (86) to get the European size, and therefore went looking for an 85B. I was bemused at how everything was much smaller than this. I was especially confused because I've always been able to judge a woman's size with one look, and I've been in China 5 years and know full well that the women, especially where I live, are in the 32 to 36 range. Anyway, I came back home and decided to check online for bra size conversion, where I discovered, not only that my naive assumption about converting from inches to centimtres was wrong, but that sizes in the UK, USA and Australia are all different !!!! The sizes in Europe are also different - how the hell is it that we can't get this right ? No wonder there are women wearing the wrong size !!! Would any of the British women here NOT assume that their bra size in the USA would be the same ? Here's a link to a conversion chart .....

French scientist bemused by buzz over bra research (http://www.boobytrapwarehouse.com.au/brasizes.htm[/URL]

and BTW, the same is true for shoes, but it's even worse !!!!

Today I stumbled across the following article, in which a French doctor concludes that wearing a bra is, for the most part, counterproductive.

[URL="http://ph.news.yahoo.com/french-scientist-bemused-buzz-over-bra-research-181028252.html)

As for the comments some of you have received from men (troglodytes is a better word), I'm speechless.

[Satkirn]

Thought Id share this wonderful video of women in India standing in their power and changing societies view on women village by village.

opZz87S2v6M

[CdnSirian]

Oops it's not showing Satkirn.

[ThePythonicCow]

Thought Id share this wonderful video of women in India standing in their power and changing societies view on women village by village.



It looks like you forgot to put in the URL of the video, Satkirn :). It does not show.

[Sidney]

Thought Id share this wonderful video of women in India standing in their power and changing societies view on women village by village.



Link is not there, could you re-do please? : )

edit: opps you beat me to the punch Paul;)

[jiminii]

don't need a bra .. not natural ... just take 2 half coconut shells ... and tape them on

jim

[Daughter of Time]

don't need a bra .. not natural ... just take 2 half coconut shells ... and tape them on

jim

Jiiminii,

And I thought you were a serious dude!!!

Coconut shells and tape would tear the delicate skin off, leading to bleed, infect and leave scars.

Your very bright mind is not very practical when it comes to this subject.

I wonder what you would recommend in place of jock straps.

Anyhow, don't enlighten us on jock straps since this thread is not about that.

[Flash]

[QUOTE=gracieuse;650475]

Funny story: once in summer, I went running with just a tank top. I ran by a group of workers in the street who were fixing the pavement, and one of them stopped and angrily shouted at me that I should put on a bra. Isn't this hilarious, that being braless can offend the male ego? :confused:

If I had my wish I would have had that worker that shouted at you horse whipped.
I believe wholeheartedly that women should be able to go braless, or even go topless in public.

Why women subject themselves to bras, make-up and high heal shoes is kind of odd to me.
If it was fashionable,or a social norm for women to wear a dead chicken on their head would they do it? :confused:

:noidea:

I was bitching once about the veiled women in the Muslim world, from those wearing the scarf only (hijab) et those fully covered, saying they were in jail in their own body. My male friend then asked me: "tell me, what is the difference between a women wearing the scarf and long clothes versus the women having false breast, false teeth, false hair, not able to get out without make up, high heels (with back pain) and very uncomfortable tight clothes, which one is more in jail in her own body?" Good point. We should plainly learn to love ourselves.

[Flash]

I'd like to close off with quote by Eckhart Tolle, from a "new earth", which gives us all something to think about from a historical perspective (which again, I think is shifting):

"The suppression of the feminine principle especially over the past two thousand years has enabled the ego to gain absolute supremacy in the collective human psyche. Although women have egos, of course, the ego can take root and grow more easily in the male form than in the female. This is because women are less mind-identified than men. (...) The female form is less rigidly encapsulated than the male, has greater openness and sensitivity toward other life forms, and is more attuned to the natural world.
If the balance between male and female energies had not been destroyed on our planet, the ego's growth would have been greatly curtailed. We would not have declared war on nature, and we would not be so completely alienated from our Being.
Nobody knows the exact figure (...) but it seems certain that during a three-hundred-year period between three and five million women were tortured and killed by the "Holy Inquisition" (...). The sacred feminine was declared demonic, and an entire dimension largely disappeared from human experience. (...) Women's status was reduced to being child bearers and men's property. Male who denied the feminine within themselves were now running the world ... The rest is history or rather a case history of insanity. (...) What is it that suddenly made men feel threatened by the female? The evolving ego in them. It knew it could gain full control of our planet only through the male form, and to do so, it had to render the female powerless.
In time, the ego also took over most women, although it could never become as deeply entrenched in them as in men. We now have a situation in which the suppression of the feminine has become internalized, even in most women. The sacred feminine, because it is suppressed, is felt by many women as emotional pain. In fact, it has become part of their pain-body, together with the accumulated pain suffered by women over millennia through childbirth, rape, slavery, torture and violent death." (p. 155-157)
Interestingly, Tolle describes how this pain body become active before and during menstruation (hence, PMS)...

That is sooo interesting, particularly the part about women having built their ego as well, suppressed their feminine and when the feminine express itself, it is felt in the pain body, as emotional pain.

This, from my own personal experience, cannot be more true. I have been raised using my brain for studies, and then always worked in a male world. Therefore, I had to suppress emotions and inner feelings (they take more time to process and in a male world, action is prime, not time for processing).

I ended up at the other end of my career extremely dissatisfied by work experiences and mostly, having very difficult time with women in management whose suppression of the feminine in their attitude was worst than mine. I must say that I was/am in total emotional pain regarding work. This has nothing to do with the challenges and interests in the work itself, it was/is very stimulating, this has to do with suppression of the feminine 8 hours plus a day.

Furthermore, when I was pregnant, with a daughter, I was very sad. Someone asked me "why?" and my answer was "because I know she will have a much more difficult life than any boy would have", and I do not wish that for her. Right or wrong, it does not matter, what matters is that I was expression my emotional body pain about suppression of my own feminine.

I truly love her by now, 16 years later, she is really beautiful and does impose herself as feminine yet decisive. I hope she will make me wrong on the difficulties women encounter versus men.

A little à côté: I always feel like my feminine is suppressed while reading or exchanging with some very male energies here, such as Bill (my own confession), sometimes Paul, and others. I am however very much knowing that those are my own perception in regard to my own supressions of feminine. It really feels like when I communicate with someone from another culture, who does not know mine, and where I am the one making all the effort to adapt and translate cultural concepts, here being translating different cultural (feminine) point of views and having to make one sided efforts all along.

[Daughter of Time]

[QUOTE=gracieuse;650475]

Funny story: once in summer, I went running with just a tank top. I ran by a group of workers in the street who were fixing the pavement, and one of them stopped and angrily shouted at me that I should put on a bra. Isn't this hilarious, that being braless can offend the male ego? :confused:

If I had my wish I would have had that worker that shouted at you horse whipped.
I believe wholeheartedly that women should be able to go braless, or even go topless in public.

Why women subject themselves to bras, make-up and high heal shoes is kind of odd to me.
If it was fashionable,or a social norm for women to wear a dead chicken on their head would they do it? :confused:

:noidea:

I was bitching once about the veiled women in the Muslim world, from those wearing the scarf only (hijab) et those fully covered, saying they were in jail in their own body. My male friend then asked me: "tell me, what is the difference between a women wearing the scarf and long clothes versus the women having false breast, false teeth, false hair, not able to get out without make up, high heels (with back pain) and very uncomfortable tight clothes, which one is more in jail in her own body?" Good point. We should plainly learn to love ourselves.

Flash,

I get your point and I respect it.

What bothers me about seeing Muslim women who are covered from head to toe is that they are robbed of their identity. It's a uniform which states that she doesn't own herself.

In the Western world, we have a choice (in most cases) as to whether we want to enhance or change our natural looks or not. Those Muslim women do not have a choice. They have to submit to religious traditions and the dictates of their men. We can choose how we want to look, to a degree, of course.

[Flash]

Funny story: once in summer, I went running with just a tank top. I ran by a group of workers in the street who were fixing the pavement, and one of them stopped and angrily shouted at me that I should put on a bra.

What a freaking spoilsport. I hope you told him to buzz off ... As a male, I do not support his position.

Here, I have a collection of skipping ropes I would like you to try out :)

(Sorry I am just so immature ;) )

Or tell them to wear jack straps....

Just read a few posts from the thread right now and realized I might have been too serious with my previous two posts.

[Satkirn]

I'd like to close off with quote by Eckhart Tolle, from a "new earth", which gives us all something to think about from a historical perspective (which again, I think is shifting):

"The suppression of the feminine principle especially over the past two thousand years has enabled the ego to gain absolute supremacy in the collective human psyche. Although women have egos, of course, the ego can take root and grow more easily in the male form than in the female. This is because women are less mind-identified than men. (...) The female form is less rigidly encapsulated than the male, has greater openness and sensitivity toward other life forms, and is more attuned to the natural world.
If the balance between male and female energies had not been destroyed on our planet, the ego's growth would have been greatly curtailed. We would not have declared war on nature, and we would not be so completely alienated from our Being.
Nobody knows the exact figure (...) but it seems certain that during a three-hundred-year period between three and five million women were tortured and killed by the "Holy Inquisition" (...). The sacred feminine was declared demonic, and an entire dimension largely disappeared from human experience. (...) Women's status was reduced to being child bearers and men's property. Male who denied the feminine within themselves were now running the world ... The rest is history or rather a case history of insanity. (...) What is it that suddenly made men feel threatened by the female? The evolving ego in them. It knew it could gain full control of our planet only through the male form, and to do so, it had to render the female powerless.
In time, the ego also took over most women, although it could never become as deeply entrenched in them as in men. We now have a situation in which the suppression of the feminine has become internalized, even in most women. The sacred feminine, because it is suppressed, is felt by many women as emotional pain. In fact, it has become part of their pain-body, together with the accumulated pain suffered by women over millennia through childbirth, rape, slavery, torture and violent death." (p. 155-157)
Interestingly, Tolle describes how this pain body become active before and during menstruation (hence, PMS)...

That is sooo interesting, particularly the part about women having built their ego as well, suppressed their feminine and when the feminine express itself, it is felt in the pain body, as emotional pain.

This, from my own personal experience, cannot be more true. I have been raised using my brain for studies, and then always worked in a male world. Therefore, I had to suppress emotions and inner feelings (they take more time to process and in a male world, action is prime, not time for processing).

I ended up at the other end of my career extremely dissatisfied by work experiences and mostly, having very difficult time with women in management whose suppression of the feminine in their attitude was worst than mine. I must say that I was/am in total emotional pain regarding work. This has nothing to do with the challenges and interests in the work itself, it was/is very stimulating, this has to do with suppression of the feminine 8 hours plus a day.

Furthermore, when I was pregnant, with a daughter, I was very sad. Someone asked me "why?" and my answer was "because I know she will have a much more difficult life than any boy would have", and I do not wish that for her. Right or wrong, it does not matter, what matters is that I was expression my emotional body pain about suppression of my own feminine.

I truly love her by now, 16 years later, she is really beautiful and does impose herself as feminine yet decisive. I hope she will make me wrong on the difficulties women encounter versus men.

A little à côté: I always feel like my feminine is suppressed while reading or exchanging with some very male energies here, such as Bill (my own confession), sometimes Paul, and others. I am however very much knowing that those are my own perception in regard to my own supressions of feminine. It really feels like when I communicate with someone from another culture, who does not know mine, and where I am the one making all the effort to adapt and translate cultural concepts, here being translating different cultural (feminine) point of views and having to make one sided efforts all along.


Flash; I dont think it is only your perceptions of the feminine. It is really the conditioning women have had during the centuries of the patriarchal era. I can understand why your emotional body reacted so when you had a daughter even more so if you think about all the past lives we have all had being women in a very suppressed society and the things we have had to do to other women. These are all things we all have to process through to in a way state that we dont agree with them and stop them from taking energy from us. I think its great that your taking a look at this and going deeper because everyones process on this literally affects everyone elses, in a way its all like a big network, if we unplug one by one from it and stand up to our real empowerment then it becomes easier to other women who see the example.

Thank you for sharing and I dont think your posts was "too serious" funny and serious comments are both very welcome :cheer2:

[jaybee]

.

Great thread....thanks to the OP and all contributors...

I generally go without a bra unless I'm at work...I breast-fed my daughter for three years and I know that when a lot of women stop breast-feeding their boobs shrink.

The opposite happened to me and they grew bigger!! And now they're huge lol.

I am so much more comfortable without a bra and I found the info about the health issues about bras in this thread very informative....cheers.


On the subject of breast-feeding...


When my daughter was a tiny baby (she's 26 now)...I was having a pub lunch, in a small lounge, (not in the main bar)...I was feeding her while wearing a baggy top and she was inside the baggy top. Not an inch of flesh was on display.

The pub manager asked me to stop because it could upset the other customers!!

So I stood up (baby still sucking away), and asked everyone in the room if me feeding my baby was a problem. Everyone was supportive and said it wasn't a problem. But the pub manager wouldn't have it, got annoyed and told me to leave.

On my way out I saw that behind the bar was a large calendar with a picture of a topless Samantha Fox on display. I drew the managers attention to the calendar. But they got even more annoyed.

Talk about double standards....:rolleyes:


That was a long time ago...and I would like to think it would be different now. But you hardly ever see a woman breast-feeding in public. Well I don't anyway.


:thumb:


.

[Satkirn]

Agree that it is also for men to be living examples of what they agree with and don't agree with through their actions, this tedx is a good example.
Cheers to all the Men who live it and all the women who enable their sons (and the men in their lives) to do so.


KTvSfeCRxe8

[jiminii]

don't need a bra .. not natural ... just take 2 half coconut shells ... and tape them on

jim

Jiiminii,

And I thought you were a serious dude!!!

Coconut shells and tape would tear the delicate skin off, leading to bleed, infect and leave scars.

Your very bright mind is not very practical when it comes to this subject.

I wonder what you would recommend in place of jock straps.

Anyhow, don't enlighten us on jock straps since this thread is not about that.

just kidding ... I know it is a problem ... but ... I have no solution... so i just try to say something funny ... maybe it is not funny for a girl but I DON" T see this as a problem in asia .. most asian girls are naturally small can fit in the palm of the hand ... but since all this chemicals in the air and in our food .. I can see where women can get extra large ... but I don't see the beauty in it ... it is probably all just endless PR ... BIG IS BETTER ... no I think natural slim and slender is more natural and more easy to manage ... can probably even play volleyball without a bra ... for me I have same problem .. if I don't have something down there to keep it from flopping all over the place I probably can't play volleyball either ... so how to solve it .????

make the breast of a women go in instead of out .. (makes the man have to hunt for them) and make the man's spring loaded ... .. stays all the way inside until the demand is needed ....

what do you think?

jim

[Corncrake]

Trailer for a new documentary on the downside of regular breast screening (mammograms):

http://thepromisefilm.net/

x07R0KvfdnU