Keiser Report: Bitcoin vs Banksters

[jackovesk]

Financial War Reports

Keiser Report: Bitcoin vs Banksters

Apr 2, 2013


In this episode of the Keiser Report, Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert discuss the elbowed dreams and broken markets that continue to apparently thrive while a hedge fund managers advice for young people is 'get a job' (in a hollowed-out wasteland of an economy) and 'save for retirement' (with the same banks that have stolen trillions from the global investor). In the second half of the show, Max Keiser talks to entrepreneur and inventor, William Mook, about a near future when bitcoin means banks will not even be needed and 3D printing makes factories obsolete but a present day in which financial wise guys have stopped investing in the economy because there is no fuel supply to support the growth.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP6pBS6uptE&feature=player_embedded

PS - Yep, you can always count on Max to :director: SPELL IT OUT...:thumb:

PSS - Great 'Hair' Max...:pound:

PSSS - I also hope after watching the clip 'above' that it relaxes some concern should the Banksters/Govt. try and take down the internet &/or control the bandwith or bring in Internet v2.0...

I might also add some people have asked the question...


What if there is an EMP Event..?

Well if there was an EMP Attack/Event, everyone is stuffed...:noidea:

http://www.maxkeiser.com/wp-content/themes/coraline/images/max-keiser-indy-cover.jpg

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Bitcoin

Boutght 6 @ 52 now gone to 140 ... nice : 0 )

http://bitcoincharts.com/

its not bad , not bad at all

N

[Nanoo Nanoo]

if i sold my bitcoins now i would almost triple my investent.

but perhaps its best to wait till 1 Bitcoin will cover my initial outlay then sell 2 Bitcoins. That way i will have covered my outlay and made a profit.

Then i can just sit on the rest and not care if it goes belly up ... hmmm but if it keeps climbing ill be looking at a new Stealth Bike ! for my biking arsenal !

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAAAA RGH ! BICEEECLLLLLLES !

( see what its like being in my head ... hmm )


N

[northstar]

Bitcoin

Boutght 6 @ 52 now gone to 140 ... nice : 0 )

http://bitcoincharts.com/

its not bad , not bad at all



I just watched the video above and I decided I want to purchase bitcoins. Does anyone have advice as to a reputable dealer and easy way to get into this? By that I mean, what software is necessary? And what steps do you take to make sure your bitcoin purchase is safe and secure (cannot be hacked or stolen)

If any financially minded Avalonian can simplify this for us folks who are not great with numbers and technology, it would be much appreciated!!

[northstar]

Financial War Reports

Keiser Report: Bitcoin vs Banksters

Apr 2, 2013


In this episode of the Keiser Report, Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert discuss the elbowed dreams and broken markets that continue to apparently thrive while a hedge fund managers advice for young people is 'get a job' (in a hollowed-out wasteland of an economy) and 'save for retirement' (with the same banks that have stolen trillions from the global investor). In the second half of the show, Max Keiser talks to entrepreneur and inventor, William Mook, about a near future when bitcoin means banks will not even be needed and 3D printing makes factories obsolete but a present day in which financial wise guys have stopped investing in the economy because there is no fuel supply to support the growth.




This guy is really entertaining. I like him!

Max Keiser: "Banks are stealing money out of people's bank accounts"

MaX Keiser calls this "banker fraud and banker terrorism." He doesn't mince words!!

He and Stacy Herbert discuss how the banksters and hedge fund managers are encouraging people to put more money in the banks, the very banks that are stealing money and getting away with it.

Stacy Herbert: "We have to come up with alternative ways to escape these oligarchs and monopolies." 10.00

MaX Keiser "The geopolitical implications of bitcoin are astounding"

William Mook: "Bitcoin puts power back in the hands of individuals and removes you from centralized control"

Max Keiser: "in 2013 is there still enough of the internet alive and free today to get us through this harsh occupation by financial terrorists (bankers), is there enough free bandwidth on the internet to support this bitcoin going forward?"

Mook suggests that central control of the internet will be totally obsolete in 10 years, which means that no corporate government will be able to bring it down.

[Lifebringer]

They owned 80% of the economy in the old paradigm. They can't invest in their scam on WS, because they know there are corporate CEO banksters laying in wait to rip them off, by over loaning on the shareholder's money invested/spending other people's investment money for the long haul until caught.

If the independence of energy in the homes bought were available, it would free up thousands per household per year where the economy would take a new shape with more in the consumer, homeowner's pocket to boost the new economy.

Corporations like Halliburton, Lockeed and Exxon Oil and Gas, will crack this planet like a peanut just to fill their pollution economy in the 21st century, health be damned for the future generations. You can just look at Arkansas, and Illinois oil spills to see the future they have planned to keep it going.

They've hidden the patents American tax dollars paid for in research and developement, and that's just the tip of the iceberg as far as the damage these technological secrets are causing us.

Pray for revealing, justice, prosecution, no matter how high up the totem pole of distructions. Pray for US/World to pick up our torch/responsibility and build green, live green and chemical poison free.
The generation in front of us, took the money in the "lets make a deal makers in DC"

American prefers to see what's behind OIL curtain number 3 spill for the future, before making a decision. Open their OIL History books and you'll see all the reasons for wars, bankruptcies because of health problems and a 1/3rd of every dollar they use for living going to "old dirty dino fuels.

[Lifebringer]

Bitcoin equals "net money." Net money= site shutdown. I like having coins for my granchildren to jingle in their pockets when they visit.
I went through the ATM machines limiting my withdrawal on my less than 700.00 card, charging 2.75 cents for every 120.00 withdrawn. Only thing is, my rent is 675.00 and it cost over 9 dollars, to pay my rent. WTHeck is up with that?

People on so low an income should be waved on the fees over 3 withdrawals, and not limited to every hundred. I'm sick of these leeches attached to my hard earned fingers to the bone social security. It was already taxed when it came out, and they tax any accrued interest on money that doesn't even belong to them, but US.
Our trust is slowly but surely headed to the Wall Street CHOMPING BLOCK, if they keep trying to plasticize our money in thin air, as they take the hard cash every month and the only change you get is what's at the register. Case in point, I needed a loaf of bread at the end of the month and had 4.00 left on the card. The charge was 2.00 to withdraw and the bread was 2.89 so while I had the money to purchase the bread, the cost of the withdrawal at the register of 1.50 would have overdrawn it and a charge of 35.00 added to the following months cash installment.

Greed has kept me thinner, but smarter on where my bread? is buttered.
They are after our hard earned finger to the bone labor made money, while telling us, we aren't worth s***.
I don't feel good about the bitcoin, unless they are trying to freeze out the Federal Printing Press Tentacles on these loans. It's why the President bought them, otherwise, the rich who haven't done anything but cheat and reap, will own the new century as well through finance.

Just something to think about.

[indigopete]

I just watched the video above and I decided I want to purchase bitcoins. Does anyone have advice as to a reputable dealer and easy way to get into this? By that I mean, what software is necessary? And what steps do you take to make sure your bitcoin purchase is safe and secure (cannot be hacked or stolen)


northstar -

You can buy them on an exchange like https://mtgox.com.

Basic procedure is:

[1] - set up an account
[2] - load your account with some cash (needs to be a bank transfer and can take a couple of days)
[3] - buy Bitcoins

Now comes the difficult bit - downloading them and securing them. The important thing to remember is this: You don't actually EVER get your bitcoins in the sense that they are "sent" to you. There is something called the "blockchain" (like a big worm that floats around the internet). This block chain holds every bitcoin transaction that ever was. What you get is a little program (called a "wallet") that generates addresses to which Bitcoins can be "paid". Each address comes as a pair of strings. One string is called a "Private Key" the other is called a "Pubic Key".

When you get your wallet http://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet you can create these addresses (as many as you like). Create one address (You won't see the private one, only the public one). Go back to the exchange, log into your account and go to the "Funding" bit. There you'll be able to tell it to send your bitcoins to that address. They won't actually be sent to your wallet, they will be sent to the big "worm" called the blockchain. However, because you have the "Private Key: that was used to generate the public key you gave the exchange, you'll be able to access those Bitcoins (so thats how the concept of "ownership" is implemented. You don't actually 'have' them but you control them until you pass control to someone else which is called 'paying' someone).

What a palaver eh ? Its the wild west out there. Do not do anything unless you completely understand what your doing.

To secure your wallet, you need to do 2 things:

[1] - NEVER keep it on your main computer that you have connected to the internet for any length of time (e.g. keep it in an offline drive and move it on when you need it)

[2] - Make a printed copy of the Private key (this is known as a paper wallet). Each wallet has some way of doing this. In bitcoin qt its a command called dumpprivkey (Google it)

Here's an absolutely fantastic explanation of securing wallets...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=17240.0

Now you can see why its such a "geeky" activity - there just isn't much elegant, easy infrastructure out there at the moment.

I'm sure it will eventually develop, but by the time its comfortable enough form Mum's and Dad's and Auntie's & Uncles, the price will be into the thousands. In the meantime its the Wild West (with the appropriate helping of bank heists, wallet thefts, lost fortunes and general malaise).

If you do things properly though it can be rock solid and its very interesting and fun learning it.

My advice: Buy 0.1 Bitcoin for $10 and practice with something that you can afford to loose if your not sure. AND MAKE A PRINTOUT OF YOU PRIVATE KEY AND DON'T LOOSE IT. (Also, don't loose track of which public key it associates with).

h.t.h. :)

Pete

P.S. If you've got questions feel free to come back and ask. I find the whole thing technically quite fascinating. I think its mindblowing that human beings can have invented such a weird and incredible thing such as this. Its just so completely different from anything that people are used to, while at the same time perfectly implementing archetypes of trade and money that are centuries old. Its quite staggering to think about really.

[Mulder]

This is a great show - At 6.00 Cartesian Paradox. My income is your spending & vice-versa. At 6.47 Replace Horse-meat burgers with granny burgers - Soylent Green!

[Mulder]

...My advice: Buy 0.1 Bitcoin for $10 and practice with something that you can afford to loose if your not sure. AND MAKE A PRINTOUT OF YOU PRIVATE KEY AND DON'T LOOSE IT. (Also, don't loose track of which public key it associates with)...

How much can you break each bit-coin into? Can each one be divided infinitely (which would be a Ponzi Scheme - instead of printing more, we're dividing each one)? What if you lose your wallet - is your bitcoin money lost forever?

[indigopete]

How much can you break each bit-coin into?

The smallest unit a bitcoin can be broken into is a "Satoshi". There are 100,000,000 (one hundred million) Satoshis in a Bitcoin.

As the currency appreciates in value (as its doing now) payments for products will be made in smaller units. (So, in a few years, say, you might buy a bike for 250 Satoshis. If Bitcoin ever gets "mainstream" nobody will be trading in Bitcoins, they'll be using Micro BCT, Milli BCT and Satoshis.

As an example of simple arithmetic, it was remarked by an Australian business analyist the other day that if only 2.5 % of "demand deposits" (thats current accounts around the world, not savings or deposit accounts) went into Bitcoin, its value would reach $700,000. (About 3 quarters of a million dollars per Bitcoin).

Thats not like a Ponzi scheme though - thats just simple division. If you have a lot of people sharing a finite amount of something, it gets spread thinner but its value goes up.

You can watch every single bitcoin transaction here as it happens. http://coinlab.com/ You'll see lots of people buying tiny amounts of Bitcoin - 0.02 BCT and the like. Its not such a dumb thing to do as an "insurance policy" in case it gets big. At least you'll have a "horse in the race" :)

Even if you haven't got any, the world will still benefit if BCT goes mainstream - simply from living in an economy that hasn't got such a completely screwed up financial system thats rotten to the core and allows tyrannical globalist psychopaths to lever non-existant wealth on a fixed capital base, lend it to whoever they like and ask for it back in real goods and services, trashing entire countries in the process :)

[Anchor]

Warning, the advice following is for geeks with insufferable paranoia:

Consider securing your private keys (and any other private data, and scanned backups of important documents) on something like this : http://www.kingston.com/en/usb/encrypted_security/#dt5000

Get a few and at least triplicate the data, store them in geographically separated locations; keep them up to date. Do not forget the password to the device. Do not record it in any electronic way, or physical way that is obvious.

USB keys are small enough to be sent by post. Examples like the model indicated are strongly encrypted and would require very expensive technology to crack. Assume backdoors are made in these devices for the elite groups like the NSA.

If you are worried about this last point, or duress attacks, format the device with Truecrypt with a hidden plausibly deniable volume and store the wallets in that hidden container.

That should cover you.

Unless you die, and you will one day ! All this security may make it hard to bequeath your treasured bitcoin :)

So much to worry about!!!

LOL

--

1 Timothy 6:10 For the loue of money is the root of all euill, which while some coueted after, they haue erred from the faith, and pierced themselues through with many sorrowes.
- King James Version (1611)


--

Anchor..

[Anchor]

Some bitcoin news from today about a DDOS on Mt Gox (a Bitcoin exchange)

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/338624,bitcoin-value-in-rollercoaster-ride-after-ddos-attack.aspx?eid=3&edate=20130404&utm_source=20130404_PM&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=daily_newsletter


Despite having little use in the real world, Bitcoin has experienced a massive appreciation in value in a short period of time this year, with the total monetary base now thought to be around A$1.3 billion.

[Positive Vibe Merchant]

Whoever is behind the push for bitcoin is a genius! The whole vibe towards it has exploded. Just look at the amount of threads on int is the past month alone on this forum!

This is no different than any other scheme, and when the exchanges get shut down amd your money gets shifted away, don't start asking how or why. know your a sucker that got punked!

personally,. and world without money, a resource based economy is the only viable way we can move forward and away from this system. but hey.. we all have the right to think what we want.

[ThePythonicCow]

Whoever is behind the push for bitcoin is a genius! The whole vibe towards it has exploded. Just look at the amount of threads on int is the past month alone on this forum!

This is no different than any other scheme, and when the exchanges get shut down amd your money gets shifted away, don't start asking how or why. know your a sucker that got punked!
All the bitcoin exchanges in the world could shut down 3 minutes from now, and it would not jeopardize the tiny amount of bitcoin currency I hold one bit.

The bitcoin exchanges facilitate exchanging bitcoins, but they don't hold them on behalf of others. Each bitcoin holder holds their own bitcoins, in their own "wallet", to which the password that only they know is the essential key.

[Mad Hatter]

Mad Hatter dons his curious cap...


world without money, a resource based economy is the only viable way

Curious as to how you see the exchange of value occurring in such a scenario. Would you/anyone care to amplify using the following scene...

A geo-technical engineer crushes rocks all day (analyses of road making components) so has nothing but access to computer reports and crushed rock....

End of the day travels home stopping at baker to purchase some bread along the way.
Baker has no need of crushed rock or computer printouts.

Q How is an equitable exchange of value managed under these circumstances without using money but just the resource backing that you argue is the way to go?

[Anchor]

The bitcoin exchanges facilitate exchanging bitcoins, but they don't hold them on behalf of others. Each bitcoin holder holds their own bitcoins, in their own "wallet", to which the password that only they know is the essential key.

Is that correct? I haven't fully fleshed out my understanding of bit-coin yet, but I understand the wallet to be the key to proving which bitcoins you own - which are recorded in the "internet" bitcoint p2p network.

If you loose your wallet or someone gains access to your key, it is not recoverable - ever.

Its not like a real one that can be returned empty and reused. Once compromised its gone and useless for ever.

I think I will keep mine in a small VM set up for the express purpose and then store the entire VM image on a USB key. The VM wont get used for any other reason.

From what I see most people are recommending you have more than one wallet and take increasingly rigorous steps for securing the ones with "savings" versus the ones that contain a float for day to day transactions.

[ThePythonicCow]

The bitcoin exchanges facilitate exchanging bitcoins, but they don't hold them on behalf of others. Each bitcoin holder holds their own bitcoins, in their own "wallet", to which the password that only they know is the essential key.

Is that correct? I haven't fully fleshed out my understanding of bit-coin yet, but I understand the wallet to be the key to proving which bitcoins you own - which are recorded in the "internet" bitcoint p2p network.

If you loose your wallet or someone gains access to your key, it is not recoverable - ever.

What you say is correct.

Your bitcoins are in your wallet.

Your password is the key to your wallet.

If the wallet or the password is lost, the bitcoins are gone, totally.

If both the wallet and its password are stolen, then the thief now owns those bitcoins.

P.S. -- The password applies if your wallet is encrypted, which is optional It's the wallet (mine is a 100 Kbyte file) that apparently you need. But I'm still learning about this; and might still be confusing things.

Unlike stock held by a broker ("in street name") or deposits in a bank, no external institution can quietly steal your bitcoins. They would have to steal your computer wallet (perhaps by hacking into your computer).

Multiple wallets are a good idea for anyone holding much money as bitcoins.

Now that the total value of my bitcoin wealth has recently gone above one (1) US dollar ... I still have only one wallet, with minimal security.

[ThePythonicCow]

Clif High has released a new wujo (audio report) within the last day, focused on bitcoin: http://www.halfpasthuman.com/wujo/clifswujo432013btcprimer.mp3

I am just starting to listen now.

[Anchor]

In deciding about the security of Bitcoins "future" value - we need to consider a few things;

1) How much faith do we have that the internet will keep working for ever?

Surely without the internet to support the concept, game over.

2) How much are we prepare to trust the integrity of the design?

Some People, including technical and security aware technical people (like me) have looked at the cryptographic principles involved and see them as adequate (overkill for the present) for the purposes they are being put to. The wallet security disciplines are complex for laypeople to get right. There will be tears before bedtime.

3) Do we think there is a realistic possibility that it will become easier and easier to convert debt based value tokens to credit based Bitcoin tokens (for much further in the future).

4) Will Bitcoins become ubiquitous? Will I be able to walk into a supermarket and pay for food say, with a Bitcoins exchanged using some seamless/contactless payment method? I cant see that happening at this stage. Most vendors are will encourage you to use a store card for this so they can continue to monitor, trace and sell your spending habit data.

5) How will the PTB crack down on Bitcoin ? Do we think they will?

I do think they will try to. It is anonymous store of value and its easier to move than gold. None of the existing banking acts have any provision to confiscate your bitcoins!!!

So yes I think they will try to find a way to come down hard on it, and soon. Similarly they are slowly attempting to get people weaned off cash and onto contact-less (traceable) payment systems. They will start by engineering attacks on the infrastructure, by spreading fear doubt and uncertainty, and by engineering media coverage of every person who lost money with Bitcoin regardless of the warnings they ignored. Psy-ops and infiltration of exchanges will occurr to damage them.

Soon there will be a cry orchestrated by the tame unawakened masses of "something must be done" "someone think of the children" "Bitcoin pays for contract killers" "Bitcoin ruins lives" "Bitcoin promotes a black economy!" "Bitcoin helps people avoid paying tax!" etc etc

And yet, at the back of my mind, I still think that this is something special - it could still meet all these challenges and work.

[ThePythonicCow]

Clif High (in the wujo I just linked above) is saying that he can recover his wallet from the shared peer-to-peer network data. All he needs is his wallet address and password.

P.S. -- I think I misunderstood that part. I'm pretty sure one needs a backup of one's "wallet". The backup of my bitcoin wallet is about a 100 Kbyte file. It has almost nothing in it. I don't know if wallet backups for wealthier or more active bitcoin users are larger or not.

[ThePythonicCow]

A thought:

Bitcoins don't work well with debt. Their quantity is limited, eventually capped entirely and thereafter the total number of bitcoins will only decrease due to loss. Even before the ultimate cap (at 21 million bitcoins) the supply of bitcoins is increasing much slower than the number of people using them, so the value of a bitcoin is increasing. Because bitcoins are becoming more valuable over time, debt denominated in some fixed number of bitcoins would end up being paid back with more valuable currency units.

This is the opposite of typical central bank "paper" fiat debt-based currency, which (except when the banksters are causing a depression in order to get property on foreclosure and bankruptcy) tends to keep increasing in supply, making debt payments easier as time goes. I was much more willing to borrow a $1000 when my income each year was increasing, because I could pay it back with cheaper money.

So the Banksters are for sure not going to like bitcoins :).

====

"Money" has multiple and sometimes conflicting functions (http://www.cliffsnotes.com/study_guide/Functions-of-Money.topicArticleId-9789,articleId-9745.html).

Money can be a store of wealth, an accounting unit, or a transaction unit.

Bitcoins make an outstanding transaction unit between two parties that trust each other. I can exchange bitcoins with anyone on the Internet who also has the software, with no intermediaries and no one else (easily) knowing.

Bitcoins have so far, and may well continue, to make an excellent store of wealth, if you don't mind the shorter term volatility.

However bitcoins may not be such a good accounting unit. Accountants value boring stability of their financial unit, in terms of what goods and services it can be exchanged for.

[Anchor]

Clif High has released a new wujo (audio report) within the last day, focused on bitcoin: http://www.halfpasthuman.com/wujo/clifswujo432013btcprimer.mp3

I am just starting to listen now.


That was a great intro. I like Clif High.

[happyuk]

As a software developer I recently did some work (http://www.technical-recipes.com/2013/using-rsa-to-encrypt-large-data-files-in-c/) with regard to combining the use of public and private encryption, so what you are saying makes a lot of sense. It sounds like it is a means of ensuring that either of the communicating end users (or anyone else) can do the encryption of the transaction using a military strength symmetric technique like AES256, but only the private key holder is able to decrypt the publically encrypted data, using an asymmetric technique such as RSA.

I must say though that trying to get started with this Bitcoin malarky is a bit of a learning curve, even for a crusty old techie like me ;)

[jackovesk]

Who 'REALLY' Created BitCoin..?

Apr 6, 2013


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clIShxkIU0w&feature=player_embedded

http://SilverBulletSilverShield.com

[ThePythonicCow]

Who 'REALLY' Created BitCoin..?
Well, that video doesn't "really" cover who created bitcoin.

Rather it plants seeds of doubt about bitcoin, which is not surprising, given that it comes from Chris Duane of SilverBulletSilverShield.com, who is selling silver, a potentially competing alternative currency.

[jackovesk]

Who 'REALLY' Created BitCoin..?
Well, that video doesn't "really" cover who created bitcoin.

Rather it plants seeds of doubt about bitcoin, which is not surprising, given that it comes from Chris Duane of SilverBulletSilverShield.com, who is selling silver, a potentially competing alternative currency.

Yeh...:yes4:

I was in 2 minds, whether I should have posted it or not..?

I just included it, because of the reference that Max Keiser (May?) have had something to do with its inception..?

[Hervé]

That Bitcoin stuff is very, very interesting; first, because it opens the door for future currencies freed/detached from "assets" and ownerships but, second, and most of all, it lends credence to the best defintion for "money" I ever ran into:

"Money is an idea backed by confidence."

[northstar]

I just watched the video above and I decided I want to purchase bitcoins. Does anyone have advice as to a reputable dealer and easy way to get into this? By that I mean, what software is necessary? And what steps do you take to make sure your bitcoin purchase is safe and secure (cannot be hacked or stolen)


northstar -

You can buy them on an exchange like https://mtgox.com.

Basic procedure is:

[1] - set up an account
[2] - load your account with some cash (needs to be a bank transfer and can take a couple of days)
[3] - buy Bitcoins

Now comes the difficult bit - downloading them and securing them. The important thing to remember is this: You don't actually EVER get your bitcoins in the sense that they are "sent" to you. There is something called the "blockchain" (like a big worm that floats around the internet). This block chain holds every bitcoin transaction that ever was. What you get is a little program (called a "wallet") that generates addresses to which Bitcoins can be "paid". Each address comes as a pair of strings. One string is called a "Private Key" the other is called a "Pubic Key".

When you get your wallet http://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet you can create these addresses (as many as you like). Create one address (You won't see the private one, only the public one). Go back to the exchange, log into your account and go to the "Funding" bit. There you'll be able to tell it to send your bitcoins to that address. They won't actually be sent to your wallet, they will be sent to the big "worm" called the blockchain. However, because you have the "Private Key: that was used to generate the public key you gave the exchange, you'll be able to access those Bitcoins (so thats how the concept of "ownership" is implemented. You don't actually 'have' them but you control them until you pass control to someone else which is called 'paying' someone).

What a palaver eh ? Its the wild west out there. Do not do anything unless you completely understand what your doing.

To secure your wallet, you need to do 2 things:

[1] - NEVER keep it on your main computer that you have connected to the internet for any length of time (e.g. keep it in an offline drive and move it on when you need it)

[2] - Make a printed copy of the Private key (this is known as a paper wallet). Each wallet has some way of doing this. In bitcoin qt its a command called dumpprivkey (Google it)

Here's an absolutely fantastic explanation of securing wallets...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=17240.0

Now you can see why its such a "geeky" activity - there just isn't much elegant, easy infrastructure out there at the moment.

I'm sure it will eventually develop, but by the time its comfortable enough form Mum's and Dad's and Auntie's & Uncles, the price will be into the thousands. In the meantime its the Wild West (with the appropriate helping of bank heists, wallet thefts, lost fortunes and general malaise).

If you do things properly though it can be rock solid and its very interesting and fun learning it.

My advice: Buy 0.1 Bitcoin for $10 and practice with something that you can afford to loose if your not sure. AND MAKE A PRINTOUT OF YOU PRIVATE KEY AND DON'T LOOSE IT. (Also, don't loose track of which public key it associates with).

h.t.h. :)

Pete

P.S. If you've got questions feel free to come back and ask. I find the whole thing technically quite fascinating. I think its mindblowing that human beings can have invented such a weird and incredible thing such as this. Its just so completely different from anything that people are used to, while at the same time perfectly implementing archetypes of trade and money that are centuries old. Its quite staggering to think about really.



Wow, this is brilliant!!
Thanks!!

And thanks to the others posting here, what an awesome discussion. I am learning a great deal!

[T Smith]

In deciding about the security of Bitcoins "future" value - we need to consider a few things;

1) How much faith do we have that the internet will keep working for ever?

Surely without the internet to support the concept, game over.

2) How much are we prepare to trust the integrity of the design?

Some People, including technical and security aware technical people (like me) have looked at the cryptographic principles involved and see them as adequate (overkill for the present) for the purposes they are being put to. The wallet security disciplines are complex for laypeople to get right. There will be tears before bedtime.

3) Do we think there is a realistic possibility that it will become easier and easier to convert debt based value tokens to credit based Bitcoin tokens (for much further in the future).

4) Will Bitcoins become ubiquitous? Will I be able to walk into a supermarket and pay for food say, with a Bitcoins exchanged using some seamless/contactless payment method? I cant see that happening at this stage. Most vendors are will encourage you to use a store card for this so they can continue to monitor, trace and sell your spending habit data.

5) How will the PTB crack down on Bitcoin ? Do we think they will?

I do think they will try to. It is anonymous store of value and its easier to move than gold. None of the existing banking acts have any provision to confiscate your bitcoins!!!

So yes I think they will try to find a way to come down hard on it, and soon. Similarly they are slowly attempting to get people weaned off cash and onto contact-less (traceable) payment systems. They will start by engineering attacks on the infrastructure, by spreading fear doubt and uncertainty, and by engineering media coverage of every person who lost money with Bitcoin regardless of the warnings they ignored. Psy-ops and infiltration of exchanges will occurr to damage them.

Soon there will be a cry orchestrated by the tame unawakened masses of "something must be done" "someone think of the children" "Bitcoin pays for contract killers" "Bitcoin ruins lives" "Bitcoin promotes a black economy!" "Bitcoin helps people avoid paying tax!" etc etc

And yet, at the back of my mind, I still think that this is something special - it could still meet all these challenges and work.

I'm fascinated by the whole BitCoin development. It truly is a revolutionary concept. I have no doubt the value of BTC will continue to rise, per Clif High's analysis and others. What I worry about, and what no one has adequately answered to my satisfaction is the point you raise, enumerated #5 above...

Fiat currency is the cornerstone of their control over us slaves. They will torch the earth and kill every man woman and child before they relinquish that control. Are they really going to let some backdoor scheme take them down?

[Hervé]

Kaspersky Lab Discovers Bitcoin-Mining Malware That Targets Skype Users (http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/1112817404/bitcoin-mining-malware-targets-skype-users-040613/)
April 6, 2013
http://www.redorbit.com/media/uploads/2013/04/bitcoin-shutterstock_82403671-617x420.jpg
Image Credit: ppart / Shutterstock (http://www.shutterstock.com/gallery-215950p1.html)

redOrbit Staff & Wire Reports – Your Universe Online
A new spam message campaign being transmitted via Skype (http://www.redorbit.com/topics/skype/) contains malware capable of using an infected computer to mine for Bitcoins (http://www.redorbit.com/topics/bitcoin/), researchers from multi-national security software firm Kaspersky Lab (http://www.kaspersky.com/) have discovered.

Bitcoins, which Lucian Constantin of IDG News Service (http://www.pcworld.com/article/2033287/bitcoin-mining-malware-spreading-on-skype-researcher-says.html) describes as “a decentralized digital currency” that has seen its popularity soar since the beginning of the year, are generated according to special algorithms on a computer using their CPU and GPU resources – Bitcoin mining, as it has been dubbed.

The digital currency is currently trading for more than $130 per unit, “making it an attractive investment for legitimate currency traders, but also cybercriminals,” Constantin added.

Hackers have been using botnets and are starting to develop malware capable of generating Bitcoins, and a new campaign was detected by Kaspersky Lab security personnel on Thursday. This new method targets Skype users, using messages like “this is my favorite picture of you” to trick them into clicking on a rogue bit.ly URL.

Clicking on that link begins a malware download which does several different things, including turning the infected computer “into a slave of the Bitcoin generator,” Kaspersky Lab Expert Dmitry Bestuzhev told Ted Sampson of Infoworld (http://www.infoworld.com/t/data-security/cyber-criminals-look-cash-in-bitcoins-soaring-value-215923). Once the harmful program, which was identified by Constantin as skype-img-04_04-2013.exe, is on an individual’s machine, it begins leeching the computer’s processing power to mine Bitcoins.

The download comes from the Hotfile.com service, and the malware itself connects to its C2 server located in Germany, Bestuzhev said. Sampson said that most of the potential victims reside in Italy, followed by Russia, Poland, Costa Rica, Spain, Germany, and the Ukraine. In addition, VentureBeat (http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/05/skype-bitcoin-malware/#7uGCtRZjQ1g8ehDI.99) reports that the Trojan is receiving nearly 2,000 clicks per hour.

“The bad guys are also going after Bitcoin exchanges and storage services,” Sampson said. “On Wednesday, online Bitcoin storage service Instawallet revealed that its database has been fraudulently breached and perpetrators made off with an unspecified number of Bitcoins.

“The company said it plans to open a claims process for balance holders to recover stolen funds. In the meantime, the company is suspending its service indefinitely until it can develop an alternative architecture,” he added. “Separately, Tokyo-based exchange Mt. Gox issued a statement Wednesday that it has been targeted with ongoing DDoS attacks, which resulted in trading lags, 502 errors, and users being unable to access their accounts.”

Source: redOrbit Staff & Wire Reports - Your Universe Online

[Tesseract]

Like everyone else I find the bitcoin to be a brilliant concept that will be very interesting to follow. The other day it occurred to me that bitcoins would be a good way to transfer money overseas without paying the types of exorbitant fees that the banks charge. I looked on google and this seemed to be true – even the bitcoin website highlights this as an advantage. Then I began the process for myself, and how wrong I was...

For the life of me I can not find a way to buy bitcoins without paying someone between 2 (optimistic) and 8 percent of the value of the bitcoins to be purchased (based on a ~$1k investment). MtGox is out (too expensive to wire cash to Japan), I found a USA exchange (I won’t name the site because it went down today and seems dodgy) who charged ~$45 just to accept your money. Localbitcoin is out (people charge way above spot), bit-instant might be ok but I imagine the bank/store that partners that are involved during the process must take a chunk for themselves on top of what bit-instant makes. What annoys me is that among all the hype/shilling for bitcoin no one actually seems to mention how appalling the commissions are to get invested. It is still early days, so I suppose one should not be surprised.

The other thing people need to be aware of is that Bitcoins can essentially be deleted by the people (whoever they are) who are at the top of the bitcoin community. This has happened in the past [not unlike what happened to those wealthy depositors in Cyprus], in that case it was due to a technical peculiarity that had to be eliminated rather than any insidious intent by the bitcoin PTB – but certain bitcoin miners lost a lot of bitcoin money, and it rather shatters the notion that the bitcoin system is infallible.