Discernment

[enfoldedblue]

Discernment

There is so much spiritual information floating around of varying quality, that for people who are just starting to awaken and connect with the spiritual aspects of life, it can be a challenge to discern the true gems from all the trash. I decided to compile some of what I have pieced together in relation to external information (teachers and teachings) along my journey in case it helps others on their path.

I encourage anyone to expand on, discuss, or share relevant experiences to, the list presented here.

The Proponent of Light:

This is someone who focuses on love and light. Their words of love ring true and make you feel warm and fuzzy. Their messages are filled with hope and positivity. They encourage the seeker to repel negativity, and become love and light.

Their spirituality, however, is like a neutered version of spirituality. Their practices can make the seeker feel good, feel like they are participating in something profound without actually enabling true deep transformation
.
The problem here is that while some of what they say might be true, they are actually missing half the picture. Balance is crucial in healthy spiritual development. And while it is great to celebrate the beautiful light-filled aspects of being, it is also crucial to explore and integrate the dark aspects of ourselves. When the darkness is ignored, or pushed away it remains unresolved and continues to burden us at an unconscious level. Only through integration of our own darkness can we truly become realized beings, reflections of the whole.


You Are Special :

This information is designed to appeal to the ego. The teachings offered here make the seeker feel as though s/he is part of a special elite spiritual club. “You are the brave ones; you are special....” The information is often directed to the wounded, misunderstood aspect of the personality. When this aspect (very connected to ego) feels ‘seen’ and celebrated an inflation occurs...that feels good.

Instead of feeling like a weird misfit, the person begins to feel like a chosen one; rather than the strange one, they become the exceptional one. However this ‘inflation’ is not real growth because the information allows the seeker to distance themselves from the feeling of inferiority by stepping into a feeling of superiority, which is just the other side of the same coin. True healing and humility occur when there is an acknowledgement and integration of both sides.

The Arrogant Teacher:

This is a person who makes the seeker feel as though spiritual wisdom is only for the few with the intelligence to grasp the concepts that they espouse. The spirituality they promote is convoluted and has an elitist flavour.

These people are masters at defending their position, not because they are right, but because they have highly developed the art of manipulating information to their benefit.
Sometimes these types of teachers seem relish lording their knowledge over others, and making others feel stupid. They often demonstrate contempt for anyone not as ‘advanced’ as they are.

In reality spirituality is simple, and is accessible to everyone:
The answers are all within.

A big aspect of the spiritual journey is the process of recognizing where one has given away their power and taking back their own authority.

One of the common aspects of a spiritually advanced person is that their sense of empathy and compassion is highly developed. This does not mean that they buy into ‘victim scripts’, or try and save anyone. Rather they recognize that everyone is divine and capable of finding their own way, but they also understand the difficulties of the journey and their hearts are touched by the plight of others. The more advanced they are, the more they can feel their deep connection to everyone and everything.


The Hero:

This is someone who presents themselves as perfect and infallible. These people tend to have a strong focus on self-promotion and relish being in the limelight. They love to showcase their amazing qualities and abilities. When these people make mistakes they do not ‘own’ them and try to deflect blame, or have some ‘story’ to explain away the error.

Generally these people are not worth listening to because they are coming from an ego perspective. The ego loves to be on a pedestal, at the centre of attention, and despises having weaknesses exposed. The problem here is that the messages presented by the person are usually framed in a way where the truth becomes secondary to promoting and maintaining a hero persona (feeding the ego).

Our society teaches us to hide our vulnerability. But being able to step into vulnerability is one of the most difficult and important qualities for a seeker to develop. Being able to be vulnerable is a crucial key to being genuine. If one is not able to be vulnerable when appropriate, then it becomes a necessity to manipulate the truth to avoid showing any cracks. Someone who is not able to be vulnerable, cannot be in their integrity at all times.

*These qualities often tend to make these people more prone to being manipulated behind the scenes by those who know how to appeal to their ego desires.

The messianic guru:

This is one of the most dangerous and probably a lot more common than many suspect. Along the path of spiritual development there is a point when the seeker becomes aware of their own godliness, and the fact that the whole universe revolves around them. When this profound truth is integrated in a holistic way the seeker understands that all is about perspective and appreciates the deep beauty and magic in the fact that we are all expressions of the divine and thus each have the ability to touch that deep point within where we all meet. We are each literally the centre of the universe from our own unique perspective.

The messianic guru however recognizes his/her divinity but has not yet understood it from the bigger picture perspective. This person believes that they are ‘the one’ and that they have a ‘special’ relationship with God/ the universe. Sometimes this comes through in their teachings in a blatant way, other times it can be more discreet.

However, even when a person is secretive about their beliefs they usually drop enough hints that can be recognized by the aware observer.

The danger here is the underlying agenda is often subtly about supporting the ‘teacher’s’ erroneous beliefs, and thus offers little to assist the seeker to uncover their own divinity.


The “they’re coming to save us.....soon” spokesman:

This is someone who claims to be speaking on behalf/channelling ‘higher beings’ who are coming to save us. While I have read a lot of excellent channelled material that claims to come from non-human entities, there is also a mountain of dodgy material. A common feature of some of the dodgy material is that it appeals to the victim mentality. ‘You poor things, life has been so hard, there are horrible beings that are so powerful that you have no hope of removing yourself from their grasp....but don’t worry because we are coming to save you.....soon. Very soon we will swoop down and fix everything so that you will live in a new paradise. Just keep reading our words...just keep believing and trusting in US, we assure you salvation is right around the corner.

This kind of material is dangerous because it wraps the seeker in a sense of false hope, and does nothing to encourage self-exploration and deep growth. It promotes a sense of helplessness in the seeker and supports the victim mentality by persuading the seeker to hand their power over to an external force.


The Gloom and Doom merchant:

This is the teacher who appeals to the inner intensity junkie. These guys are the ones all over the net yelling dire prediction after dire prediction. This kind of information is often called fear-porn because it is a bit like watching a horror movie. It is dangerous, exciting, and most importantly, frightening. Too much emersion in this information will see us running for the hills (which might not be a bad thing in itself), wanting to learn a martial art (which might not be a bad thing in itself), and eyeing our neighbours suspiciously (I don’t think this is a good thing).

Fear is the great inhibitor of spiritual development. The more we fear, the more we close ourselves up to growth and transformation. When we focus too much on the fearful aspects of life we come tense and unbalanced, and forget to nourish the beautiful magical areas of our life. As more and more of our energy is dedicated to fear, the larger its presence becomes in our reality, and the beauty shrivels up. The seeker can be left with an overwhelming sense of disillusionment and despair.


My way the only way:


These are the teachers that believe that they have found, or been shown ‘the true path’. These teachers try to convince the seeker that they, and they only, hold the key to their salvation. These people’s teachings often include a lot of judgement because of course if theirs is the right way, then everyone else must be wrong.
In order to follow a teacher like this the seeker is required to sacrifice something. The first thing is usually money for a book or workshop in which will reveal (usually part of) their secret true path. The second and most troubling thing that must be sacrificed is the seekers own power of self-direction.

Usually it is the wounded aspect of a seeker that becomes attracted this kind of teacher, the aspect that doesn’t trust in their ability to find their ‘own’ way. But one of the most important aspects of the spiritual journey is discovering and celebrating our own uniqueness and allowing others to do the same. The further the seeker goes down the path the they are able to shake off the false socially constructed aspects of their personality and connect with their true, unique inner-self.

There is no right or wrong on the spiritual path. Different people learn different things at different times in different ways. What works for one person might have no effect on another.

Keys:

Anything that tells you that you NEED to read a certain book or listen to certain music etc should probably be discarded. Of course there is great stuff ‘out there’ to help along one’s journey...but while it may help, there is no ‘required’ learning on the spiritual path.
Anything that tells you that the answer is outside yourself is a huge red flag!
Anything that leaves you with an overwhelming sense of despair is probably best avoided
Anything that makes you feel good, but doesn’t encourage deep work is probably a waste of time.
Anything that encourages idolization of a leader is potentially dangerous to one’s development.
LISTEN TO YOUR HEART

From: mysticalchemyarts.com

[donk]

I <3 DISCERNMENT

My two cents:

1: careful with labels
2: don't throw the baby out with the bath water

[Kimberley]

I <3 DISCERNMENT

My two cents:

1: careful with labels
2: don't throw the baby out with the bath water

I have never really understood what "don't throw the baby out with the bath water " means ?? And I have seen it written many times in the past few months. And I have heard it my whole life.. Thanks for any clarification...

Much love!

[Hervé]

Noooo... don't tell me you never use search engines nor Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throw_out_the_baby_with_the_bath_water)... or even a good old-fashion dictionary?

[donk]

Kimberly: just because someone gets something wrong (no matter how), it does not mean you can automatically dismiss everything they have to say...

And don't confuse this with "a stopped clock is right twice a day" :p

I like to say I threw the baby (Jesus) out with the bath water, when I got all anti-Christian. I tossed the bath water (everything the Catholic Church had to say) out the window...unfortunately, everything Jesus had to say went along with it...

[Freed Fox]

Amzer-Zo's advice is applicable, and one of the places wherein true discernment must come into play. We know that not everything on the 'net is reliable (and wikipedia is prone to mis/disinfo, as it can be edited by anyone), but it is still a source for virtually all extant information and should be utilized as such.

Baby/bathwater; a fairly simple example for my money:
Someone goes about claiming some impending doomsday scenario, and goes on to offer valid survival tips. Throwing the baby out with the proverbial bathwater in this instance would be to disregard the survival tips just because you know the apocalyptic claim to be false, even though the advice is otherwise sound.

[GarethBKK]

Discernment

There is so much spiritual information floating around of varying quality, that for people who are just starting to awaken and connect with the spiritual aspects of life, it can be a challenge to discern the true gems from all the trash. I decided to compile some of what I have pieced together in relation to external information (teachers and teachings) along my journey in case it helps others on their path.


Thank you, Enfoldedblue. I find there are those who describe the map and give advice on how to the follow the path and then there are those who simply describe the destination. One of the difficulties with the former is that there is a tendency to mistake the map for the destination. Knowledge does not equal understanding. The 'keys' you have posted are helpful.

The popularity of NDE accounts is that they describe the destination, as the path to it usually happened by accident. Some ND experiencers go on to give advice about how to live, but that rarely detracts from the description of their experience.

From extensive reading of spiritual teachers it is possible to see common ideas come to the fore. For example, I wonder how many times I have read that for a spiritual awakening to occur there must be a strong desire for it to happen. I'm tempted to catalog the frequency of certain messages from all the spiritual teachers I come across.

[Maunagarjana]

An excellent list. I've seen all of these types out there, sometimes multiple categories in a single individual. For instance....lately I have been reading (strictly for entertainment purposes) the blog of Georgi Stankov http://www.stankovuniversallaw.com/

He's a new age writer (of course he routinely castigates new agers, as he himself predicts the coming of the new age) who talks about ascension coming SOON, as in last week (literally) (of course only HE knows the way to bring it about, everyone else trying to do it is stupid and worthless because they don't listen to him) and he believes his group is destined to be the ascended masters that will start the whole planetary transformation, but first they must dematerialize during what he calls the spiritual "detonation". All of this, of course, is not at all self-aggrandizing. ;)

I would say he's the "Arrogant Teacher" primarily with a serious "Messianic Guru" streak (though really, it's a group Messianic complex he is encouraging) and he has touches of the "Proponent of Light" and "You Are Special", BUT ONLY for those who have deeply absorbed his writings. The other "Proponent of Light" and "You Are Special" teachers, he constantly denigrates for their naivety and cluelessness. The guy is unintentionally hilarious to me because he routinely accuses others of being exactly what he is (and I think he knows this), as if that magically makes him not that.

For some reason I really get a kick out of anyone who is unabashedly grandiose and absolutely sure of themselves, because that is something I tend to be extremely wary of within myself. Though I must admit, I often feel bad for the guy, because he is clearly unhappy and wants to leave this world....and expects to do so any day now. Literally.

[Kraut]

Thank you for your post enfoldedblue. Very interesting and it confirms what I've felt since beginning my journey. At first I read a lot of things that were either "love and light" or fear inducing. It would have been easy to gravitate towards the fuzziness of love and light but some things made me careful. A family member I speak to about these things is completely into the love and light mentality and shuts his eyes from some things going on in our world. Sometimes we are confronted with things that are scary at first but we can overcome that. For me the answer is balance.

I also don't get how arrogant some become, growing spiritually is something everyone can do, there's no need to get ones nose in the air about it. It's humbling to remember that there is always more to learn and more to master.

[Fred Steeves]

Nice list Christina, and I do believe I've gotten mired down in each and every one of them at some point along the way. It's a virtual mine field for seekers out there, and it reminds me of being at the fair, with the line of barkers each trying to entice you to stop and play their game. It's even fun for a while, messing around under the bright lights, the noise and excitement, but eventually you grow tired of it, and it's time to go home.

They can tell when you're heading home too, and their attempts to draw you in become half hearted.

[Wookie]

May all you seekers become Finders!

Peaceful Journeys Wookie

[christian]

From: mysticalchemyarts.com

Hm, I wonder who's behind that site. :)

[Heartsong]

Yes, there is a hazard in being absorbed in the alternate media relating to the future, the past and spirituality in general. It's possible to lose one's bearings and personal truths to the meanderings of a glib speaker or wanna be science fiction writer.

I've found the point of balance is to read autobiographies and well researched biographies. These are real people's histories and points of view from their own perspective and place in time.

If you think you've lost your freedoms go back a few hundred years when freedom had a different meaning. If you think the rich lived without sorrow or adversity do a little research. Where did these people find joy? What did they expect from life? What was attainable in their circumstance?

Life's path has never been easy on anyone. We are no different than our forebears. The strong in spirit survive, albeit not in glory or happiness, but survive none the less. We are no different.

Heartsong

[S-L]

Great post!

I find discernment to be a difficult skill to cultivate as advancement is usually achieved at the expense of error. These are useful errors to make if they can be properly understood and utilized, but I'm sure we can all look back at our spiritual evolution and shake our heads. I certainly can. I've frequently shared this quote, and I will do so again, because I feel it hits the nail right on the head:


"Discernment, then, becomes not a matter of judgment and criticism but a means for recognition. Instead of good or bad, it becomes yes or no. You know what to follow and what not to follow. You know who to be with and who not to be with—all without judgment and condemnation. How simple this is and how direct and natural. How life confirming this is for you who can receive it."

I try to live this. It is a challenge - a wonderfully empowering challenge. My main guide is this chapter about discernment (http://www.newmessage.org/nm/wisdom-from-the-greater-community-volume-2-chapter-6-discernment/). I try to re-read it a few times a year!

[Mu2143]

..............................

[Maunagarjana]

If you did not get reborn then you have no spiritual discernment and
rely on the system and going to look for credibility, because credibility
desolves to nothingness if you get reborn.
It is just the beginging of a very long journey.
Then you are capable of speaking and finding the truth in the spirit ,but in the flesh it does not look perfect.

This is because of the dual state the body is still in ,but your spirit is no longer a part of this duality.
its like a blind man suddenly can see again.
For does who aren't reborn this is confusing, because
your still a part of this matrix and have to
rely on your five senses or what I would say your walking stick for blind people

Yes, just ask this guy, but not until *after* his inevitable redemption.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/future-christian-drinking-and-doing-drugs-and-thin,32003/?ref=auto

Personally, I don't think being reborn once is enough. I've been known to be reborn several times in one day. ;)

[Mu2143]

................

[Youniverse]

Discernment

There is so much spiritual information floating around of varying quality, that for people who are just starting to awaken and connect with the spiritual aspects of life, it can be a challenge to discern the true gems from all the trash. I decided to compile some of what I have pieced together in relation to external information (teachers and teachings) along my journey in case it helps others on their path.

I encourage anyone to expand on, discuss, or share relevant experiences to, the list presented here.

The Proponent of Light:

This is someone who focuses on love and light. Their words of love ring true and make you feel warm and fuzzy. Their messages are filled with hope and positivity. They encourage the seeker to repel negativity, and become love and light.

Their spirituality, however, is like a neutered version of spirituality. Their practices can make the seeker feel good, feel like they are participating in something profound without actually enabling true deep transformation
.
The problem here is that while some of what they say might be true, they are actually missing half the picture. Balance is crucial in healthy spiritual development. And while it is great to celebrate the beautiful light-filled aspects of being, it is also crucial to explore and integrate the dark aspects of ourselves. When the darkness is ignored, or pushed away it remains unresolved and continues to burden us at an unconscious level. Only through integration of our own darkness can we truly become realized beings, reflections of the whole.


You Are Special :

This information is designed to appeal to the ego. The teachings offered here make the seeker feel as though s/he is part of a special elite spiritual club. “You are the brave ones; you are special....” The information is often directed to the wounded, misunderstood aspect of the personality. When this aspect (very connected to ego) feels ‘seen’ and celebrated an inflation occurs...that feels good.

Instead of feeling like a weird misfit, the person begins to feel like a chosen one; rather than the strange one, they become the exceptional one. However this ‘inflation’ is not real growth because the information allows the seeker to distance themselves from the feeling of inferiority by stepping into a feeling of superiority, which is just the other side of the same coin. True healing and humility occur when there is an acknowledgement and integration of both sides.

The Arrogant Teacher:

This is a person who makes the seeker feel as though spiritual wisdom is only for the few with the intelligence to grasp the concepts that they espouse. The spirituality they promote is convoluted and has an elitist flavour.

These people are masters at defending their position, not because they are right, but because they have highly developed the art of manipulating information to their benefit.
Sometimes these types of teachers seem relish lording their knowledge over others, and making others feel stupid. They often demonstrate contempt for anyone not as ‘advanced’ as they are.

In reality spirituality is simple, and is accessible to everyone:
The answers are all within.

A big aspect of the spiritual journey is the process of recognizing where one has given away their power and taking back their own authority.

One of the common aspects of a spiritually advanced person is that their sense of empathy and compassion is highly developed. This does not mean that they buy into ‘victim scripts’, or try and save anyone. Rather they recognize that everyone is divine and capable of finding their own way, but they also understand the difficulties of the journey and their hearts are touched by the plight of others. The more advanced they are, the more they can feel their deep connection to everyone and everything.


The Hero:

This is someone who presents themselves as perfect and infallible. These people tend to have a strong focus on self-promotion and relish being in the limelight. They love to showcase their amazing qualities and abilities. When these people make mistakes they do not ‘own’ them and try to deflect blame, or have some ‘story’ to explain away the error.

Generally these people are not worth listening to because they are coming from an ego perspective. The ego loves to be on a pedestal, at the centre of attention, and despises having weaknesses exposed. The problem here is that the messages presented by the person are usually framed in a way where the truth becomes secondary to promoting and maintaining a hero persona (feeding the ego).

Our society teaches us to hide our vulnerability. But being able to step into vulnerability is one of the most difficult and important qualities for a seeker to develop. Being able to be vulnerable is a crucial key to being genuine. If one is not able to be vulnerable when appropriate, then it becomes a necessity to manipulate the truth to avoid showing any cracks. Someone who is not able to be vulnerable, cannot be in their integrity at all times.

*These qualities often tend to make these people more prone to being manipulated behind the scenes by those who know how to appeal to their ego desires.

The messianic guru:

This is one of the most dangerous and probably a lot more common than many suspect. Along the path of spiritual development there is a point when the seeker becomes aware of their own godliness, and the fact that the whole universe revolves around them. When this profound truth is integrated in a holistic way the seeker understands that all is about perspective and appreciates the deep beauty and magic in the fact that we are all expressions of the divine and thus each have the ability to touch that deep point within where we all meet. We are each literally the centre of the universe from our own unique perspective.

The messianic guru however recognizes his/her divinity but has not yet understood it from the bigger picture perspective. This person believes that they are ‘the one’ and that they have a ‘special’ relationship with God/ the universe. Sometimes this comes through in their teachings in a blatant way, other times it can be more discreet.

However, even when a person is secretive about their beliefs they usually drop enough hints that can be recognized by the aware observer.

The danger here is the underlying agenda is often subtly about supporting the ‘teacher’s’ erroneous beliefs, and thus offers little to assist the seeker to uncover their own divinity.


The “they’re coming to save us.....soon” spokesman:

This is someone who claims to be speaking on behalf/channelling ‘higher beings’ who are coming to save us. While I have read a lot of excellent channelled material that claims to come from non-human entities, there is also a mountain of dodgy material. A common feature of some of the dodgy material is that it appeals to the victim mentality. ‘You poor things, life has been so hard, there are horrible beings that are so powerful that you have no hope of removing yourself from their grasp....but don’t worry because we are coming to save you.....soon. Very soon we will swoop down and fix everything so that you will live in a new paradise. Just keep reading our words...just keep believing and trusting in US, we assure you salvation is right around the corner.

This kind of material is dangerous because it wraps the seeker in a sense of false hope, and does nothing to encourage self-exploration and deep growth. It promotes a sense of helplessness in the seeker and supports the victim mentality by persuading the seeker to hand their power over to an external force.


The Gloom and Doom merchant:

This is the teacher who appeals to the inner intensity junkie. These guys are the ones all over the net yelling dire prediction after dire prediction. This kind of information is often called fear-porn because it is a bit like watching a horror movie. It is dangerous, exciting, and most importantly, frightening. Too much emersion in this information will see us running for the hills (which might not be a bad thing in itself), wanting to learn a martial art (which might not be a bad thing in itself), and eyeing our neighbours suspiciously (I don’t think this is a good thing).

Fear is the great inhibitor of spiritual development. The more we fear, the more we close ourselves up to growth and transformation. When we focus too much on the fearful aspects of life we come tense and unbalanced, and forget to nourish the beautiful magical areas of our life. As more and more of our energy is dedicated to fear, the larger its presence becomes in our reality, and the beauty shrivels up. The seeker can be left with an overwhelming sense of disillusionment and despair.


My way the only way:


These are the teachers that believe that they have found, or been shown ‘the true path’. These teachers try to convince the seeker that they, and they only, hold the key to their salvation. These people’s teachings often include a lot of judgement because of course if theirs is the right way, then everyone else must be wrong.
In order to follow a teacher like this the seeker is required to sacrifice something. The first thing is usually money for a book or workshop in which will reveal (usually part of) their secret true path. The second and most troubling thing that must be sacrificed is the seekers own power of self-direction.

Usually it is the wounded aspect of a seeker that becomes attracted this kind of teacher, the aspect that doesn’t trust in their ability to find their ‘own’ way. But one of the most important aspects of the spiritual journey is discovering and celebrating our own uniqueness and allowing others to do the same. The further the seeker goes down the path the they are able to shake off the false socially constructed aspects of their personality and connect with their true, unique inner-self.

There is no right or wrong on the spiritual path. Different people learn different things at different times in different ways. What works for one person might have no effect on another.

Keys:

Anything that tells you that you NEED to read a certain book or listen to certain music etc should probably be discarded. Of course there is great stuff ‘out there’ to help along one’s journey...but while it may help, there is no ‘required’ learning on the spiritual path.
Anything that tells you that the answer is outside yourself is a huge red flag!
Anything that leaves you with an overwhelming sense of despair is probably best avoided
Anything that makes you feel good, but doesn’t encourage deep work is probably a waste of time.
Anything that encourages idolization of a leader is potentially dangerous to one’s development.
LISTEN TO YOUR HEART

From: mysticalchemyarts.com



That's a good rundown you put together there. I would agree with you that some so-called gurus or self-professed messiahs believe they have some special kind of relationship with God, but definately not all. Jesus, for example, did not say he could do anything that any of us could not do. So he said he was the "son of God", so are all of us the sons and daughters of God. He just stated things that others had forgotten. He didn't think he had any special relationship with God, in that the kind of relationship he had was attainable by all. Anyways, just thought I'd throw that in here.

[music]

donk: 1: careful with labels
2: don't throw the baby out with the bath water



True true, donk. Labels are confining, but alas they are useful when we try to communicate ideas. Each of the "guru" types listed is obviously more than they present when in "guru" mode, but I would say the label is as necessary as the label "dangerous snake" I use to prevent my son from touching any one of the dozen or so potentially fatal snakes found where we live. I agree that we need to be cautious with labels though, and I dare say we are coming from the same place. Your second point is perfectly illustrated here by your later post:



I like to say I threw the baby (Jesus) out with the bath water, when I got all anti-Christian. I tossed the bath water (everything the Catholic Church had to say) out the window...unfortunately, everything Jesus had to say went along with it...



but there are wise words concerning that here:


Youniverse: Jesus, for example, did not say he could do anything that any of us could not do. So he said he was the "son of God", so are all of us the sons and daughters of God. He just stated things that others had forgotten. He didn't think he had any special relationship with God, in that the kind of relationship he had was attainable by all.

That is my take on Jesus. Also, I feel free to see the Christ Consciousness as a feminine energy, because I base my idea on the feel I get from Jesus, not what the various bibles tell me to feel. We are all a part of this beautiful energy, and therefore, why do we need teachers? I was once told by a person for whom Sanskrit was still a living language that the word "guru" doesn't technically mean "teacher" - Guru is the place where "teacher" and "student" meet, a place of unity and mutual learning, where we, together, are God. No-one teaches us anything, but we may be reminded of the things we have forgotten, and I love being remined.

The "teacher" always has as much to learn as the "student", providing they are not one of the kinds listed above :D

[Fred Steeves]

Discernment concerning this I've discovered is actually quite simple.

A true teacher/reminder, wants nothing more than to push the baby bird out of the nest to fly free on their own, and will even take great delight in being surpassed by the student. If any other attitude besides this is present, there is an agenda lurking.

[enfoldedblue]

I believe there are many great teachers in this world. There is a recent thread called Enlightened Minds Suggestions Please (http://http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?56910-Enlightened-Minds-Suggestions-Please) where many excellent people are mentioned.

Humility really seems to be the key to being able to transmit spiritual information without it being distorted by ego.

Fred I love the way you used the word 'delight' to describe the non-ego driven teacher's reaction to seeing the student soar above... it is perfect :)

[Ultima Thule]

Anything that tells you that you NEED to read a certain book or listen to certain music etc should probably be discarded. Of course there is great stuff ‘out there’ to help along one’s journey...but while it may help, there is no ‘required’ learning on the spiritual path.
Anything that tells you that the answer is outside yourself is a huge red flag!
Anything that leaves you with an overwhelming sense of despair is probably best avoided
Anything that makes you feel good, but doesn’t encourage deep work is probably a waste of time.
Anything that encourages idolization of a leader is potentially dangerous to one’s development.
LISTEN TO YOUR HEART

From: mysticalchemyarts.com



A good thread!
I have a hypothetical question regarding discernment. It(discernment) is often referred to with something quite like from quote above:"Listen to your heart" or "What resonates with you".

The question: let´s say that someone tells two persons a story, that is either false or true. These two people make a discernment, the other assuming correctly that the story is false, the other by his/her discernment that the story told is correct(being wrong).

How does the wrong assumption by the latter - after listening to his/her heart - become correct?

I am all for listening to ones heart, but I also wan´t to empasize the discernment be put to test - are you correct in your discernments? There are many things in this world that either are or are not, the ability to discern should be at times, imho, be tested on these kind of matters.

UT

[donk]

How does the wrong assumption by the latter - after listening to his/her heart - become correct?

I believe it is necessary to use discernment when it comes to "what your heart tells you" (internal "information") as well as on the external info.

[Fred Steeves]

I am all for listening to ones heart, but I also wan´t to empasize the discernment be put to test - are you correct in your discernments? There are many things in this world that either are or are not, the ability to discern should be at times, imho, be tested on these kind of matters.


Hi UT, I'll take a stab at that one. I think cops generally have very good discernment with things like your example, if a story is true or not. They can just "tell", or they have a "hunch". It's of course not restricted to them, just that they are the ones lied to most often.(LOL) I personally see many people here on this forum using/trusting their discernment when sizing up other fellow posters, basically to trust them, not trust them, or somewhere in between. Now I don't know how many could be accurate in some double blind experiment or something of that nature, but it seems as if it's more suited for a general "feel for things" concerning every day matters.

Then there's the more abstract version: "Is it true for Me?" That's an area where only the individual observer's sense of discernment is valid. Here's a personal example. I read George Green's "Handbook For A New Paradigm" roughly 4 years ago during the opening stages of my awakening. In it, he recommends repeating the mantra aimed at ET "I am a human becoming, help me become". Well I did that diligently for quite some time, with some pretty amazing results. But then a day came when that was no longer appropriate (for me), it was suddenly now "wrong" to look outside of myself for growth.

So I kept the mantra, it was still aimed at ET, but with a slight change. I wasn't asking ET something, I was now declaring something to them: "I am a human becoming, WATCH me become!" Independence creeping in.(LOL) Did that for a while, but with not as much heart and gusto as the first round. Even that was quickly becoming inappropriate (for me). Now? I just no longer give a crap...:) It's irrelevant (for me). But if someone new to all this were to ask me "Fred, I just came across this George Green guy, and his mantra asking ET for help seems like a really cool idea, what do you think?" I would simply tell them if it seems right for you, then do it. Wrong for me now, right for them now.

Of course if someone says they came across this Jim Jones guy, and it seems like a really cool idea to go follow him to Jonestown, that's a different story. But even then, if after fair warning they were still hell bent on doing it, my answer would wind up basically but sadly the same. "Well, if that's what you really feel you need to do, then by all means go do it". Even that very "poor" decision would be appropriate for this particular chapter of their soul's journey.

[Ultima Thule]

I am all for listening to ones heart, but I also wan´t to empasize the discernment be put to test - are you correct in your discernments? There are many things in this world that either are or are not, the ability to discern should be at times, imho, be tested on these kind of matters.


Hi UT, I'll take a stab at that one. I think cops generally have very good discernment with things like your example, if a story is true or not. They can just "tell", or they have a "hunch". It's of course not restricted to them, just that they are the ones lied to most often.(LOL) I personally see many people here on this forum using/trusting their discernment when sizing up other fellow posters, basically to trust them, not trust them, or somewhere in between. Now I don't know how many could be accurate in some double blind experiment or something of that nature, but it seems as if it's more suited for a general "feel for things" concerning every day matters.

Then there's the more abstract version: "Is it true for Me?" That's an area where only the individual observer's sense of discernment is valid. Here's a personal example. I read George Green's "Handbook For A New Paradigm" roughly 4 years ago during the opening stages of my awakening. In it, he recommends repeating the mantra aimed at ET "I am a human becoming, help me become". Well I did that diligently for quite some time, with some pretty amazing results. But then a day came when that was no longer appropriate (for me), it was suddenly now "wrong" to look outside of myself for growth.

So I kept the mantra, it was still aimed at ET, but with a slight change. I wasn't asking ET something, I was now declaring something to them: "I am a human becoming, WATCH me become!" Independence creeping in.(LOL) Did that for a while, but with not as much heart and gusto as the first round. Even that was quickly becoming inappropriate (for me). Now? I just no longer give a crap...:) It's irrelevant (for me). But if someone new to all this were to ask me "Fred, I just came across this George Green guy, and his mantra asking ET for help seems like a really cool idea, what do you think?" I would simply tell them if it seems right for you, then do it. Wrong for me now, right for them now.

Of course if someone says they came across this Jim Jones guy, and it seems like a really cool idea to go follow him to Jonestown, that's a different story. But even then, if after fair warning they were still hell bent on doing it, my answer would wind up basically but sadly the same. "Well, if that's what you really feel you need to do, then by all means go do it". Even that very "poor" decision would be appropriate for this particular chapter of their soul's journey.

And what a stab it is, you actually cut right through to my point - which I was not exactly aware of earlier :o

I definitely can relate to the idea of something being right for me or not, definitely. Also the thing about cops is valid example of something either being absolutely true or false. Parenthood also seems to train that ability ;)

My point that you brought into existence is: we in general are in a grave danger of mixing those two, i.e. discerning something that is very real and tangible with the first method, the is-it-right-for-me-style:"I don´t resonate with the truck coming at me, therefore I will not budge, it is not real." Or on the other hand using black and white discernment, the latter one, cop-style:"It hasn´t been proven well enough for me that mind can influence matter, therefore I will not believe it." or:"That guy definitely lied or misled about that bit, therefore I will categorically dismiss all that he is telling me."

You see where I´m getting at?

UT
ps. I wish I could thank you twice
pps. I got it, I´ll remove my thanks and thank you again!

[enfoldedblue]

Thanks for your question Ultima Thule and also Donk and Fred for your answers. I would just like to add that since birth we have been programmed to look to external 'authority' to establish what is true and important. However I personally believe that we have an internal guidance system that is perfect for navigating through this reality (it is based in the heart, but balanced with information gathered by the mind). Unfortunately most have us have been so out of touch with this internal guidance system that we no longer know how to use it. Learning to liten to our hearts is part of the process of reconnecting with this internal guidance. Like most learning processes mistakes will be made. But just because it is not immediately accurate does not mean that is should just be disregarded. Like shooting an arrow it is going to take time and practice to be able to consistently shoot bullseyes, and one can expect that sometimes the arrow will stray. However I also think that that which resonates does so for a reason...even if it is wrong. Sometimes the most most profound learning can come from following a 'wrong' road.




Anything that tells you that you NEED to read a certain book or listen to certain music etc should probably be discarded. Of course there is great stuff ‘out there’ to help along one’s journey...but while it may help, there is no ‘required’ learning on the spiritual path.
Anything that tells you that the answer is outside yourself is a huge red flag!
Anything that leaves you with an overwhelming sense of despair is probably best avoided
Anything that makes you feel good, but doesn’t encourage deep work is probably a waste of time.
Anything that encourages idolization of a leader is potentially dangerous to one’s development.
LISTEN TO YOUR HEART

From: mysticalchemyarts.com



A good thread!
I have a hypothetical question regarding discernment. It(discernment) is often referred to with something quite like from quote above:"Listen to your heart" or "What resonates with you".

The question: let´s say that someone tells two persons a story, that is either false or true. These two people make a discernment, the other assuming correctly that the story is false, the other by his/her discernment that the story told is correct(being wrong).

How does the wrong assumption by the latter - after listening to his/her heart - become correct?

I am all for listening to ones heart, but I also wan´t to empasize the discernment be put to test - are you correct in your discernments? There are many things in this world that either are or are not, the ability to discern should be at times, imho, be tested on these kind of matters.

UT

[opihikaobob]

Kimberly: just because someone gets something wrong (no matter how), it does not mean you can automatically dismiss everything they have to say...

And don't confuse this with "a stopped clock is right twice a day" :p

I like to say I threw the baby (Jesus) out with the bath water, when I got all anti-Christian. I tossed the bath water (everything the Catholic Church had to say) out the window...unfortunately, everything Jesus had to say went along with it...Hi Donk
So is Jesus still swimming in the bath water - My perspective has been to study many different exponents of Christianity- My Favorites are Rudolph Steiner - http://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/ ,who did not start out as a Christian , but through his special abilities, and his genius , as well as having access to ancient texts , that mostly are not available anymore , he came to believe that the advent of Christ was the central event of the Cosmos .
He has many fascinating lectures available at the link, among the one's that I found interesting was one that talked about the rise of Western occult societys and their tremendous misuse of spiritual powers , that would be unleashed against
America in the future - which to my way of thinking is now!
Another of my favorite sources of ultra non- orthodox Christianity would be The Gnostic tradition , whose views are decidedly of Vedic oigin-- in the tradition of " know thy self".http://gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html
I think that is where the ability of discernment really starts - spiritual things are spiritually discerned, and in my view we are spirit

[donk]

I will check it out, thanks so much! And welcome to Avalon.

As to Jesus/bathwater, my problem was I had such a problem with the institution of Christianity that I put the his words, a lot of which are the keys to my idea of a good happy healthy life...and think most people would agree regardless of their beliefs or emotional attachments or whatever.

I look forward to checking out a new perspective on it, thanks again for sharing

[Hervé]

A little tale on differentiation... between reality and legend:

Confusing Name With Reality (http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/06/11/confusing-name-with-reality/)
Posted on June 11, 2013 (http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/06/11/confusing-name-with-reality/) by martyrathbun09 (http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/author/martyrathbun09/)

From Lieh-Tzu, A Taoist Guide to Practical Living, (Eva Wong, Shambala Publications Inc, 1995)

A man from the eastern provinces was traveling along a seldom-used road when he fainted. A robber happened to be passing by and noticed the man fallen by the wayside. Seeing that the traveler was still alive, the robber started to revive the man by offering him food and water. After three mouthfuls, the man opened his eyes.

Seeing a gruff and fierce-looking man bent over him, he said, ‘who are you?’
The robber said, ‘I am Ch’iu of the region of Hu-fu.’

Startled, the traveler said, ‘You’re not that infamous robber who’s wanted everywhere are you?’

‘I am he.’

‘Then why did you give me food? Did you help me because you associate me with your kind? I am a man of virtue and will not eat anything that comes from a criminal.’

The traveler then tried to throw up the food the robber had given him. Eventually he choked on his vomit and died.

Even if Ch’iu was a criminal, his intent and action in this situation was not criminal. Although he might have committed unforgivable crimes, there was nothing criminal about the food and water. Self-righteous people often follow a principle blindly without understanding it and in doing so confuse what is name and what is reality.


****************************


The Alt-media calls it discernment...

It's an invitation to the individuals who would reach for their garlic, wooden stakes, crucifixes and silver bullets upon running into some words/names... to dig a bit further.

[Team Zen]

Then there's the more abstract version: "Is it true for Me?" That's an area where only the individual observer's sense of discernment is valid. Here's a personal example. I read George Green's "Handbook For A New Paradigm" roughly 4 years ago during the opening stages of my awakening. In it, he recommends repeating the mantra aimed at ET "I am a human becoming, help me become". Well I did that diligently for quite some time, with some pretty amazing results. But then a day came when that was no longer appropriate (for me), it was suddenly now "wrong" to look outside of myself for growth.

So I kept the mantra, it was still aimed at ET, but with a slight change. I wasn't asking ET something, I was now declaring something to them: "I am a human becoming, WATCH me become!" Independence creeping in.(LOL) Did that for a while, but with not as much heart and gusto as the first round. Even that was quickly becoming inappropriate (for me). Now? I just no longer give a crap...:) It's irrelevant (for me). But if someone new to all this were to ask me "Fred, I just came across this George Green guy, and his mantra asking ET for help seems like a really cool idea, what do you think?" I would simply tell them if it seems right for you, then do it. Wrong for me now, right for them now.

Wow Fred, I was just recently thinking about that book! I read it early on in my awakening too- "Welcome to the winning side!" ;)
I did the same thing and repeated that mantra for awhile- but slowly my attention moved to other things- I think that in the process of awakening there are "stepping stones," each stones leading you to the next in the journey (and for each person the path is different, I think we come across certain things not by accident)- but who knows if I will ever arrive at the destination? It is definitely a rabbit hole, and a deep one at that!

As for discernment, I feel like that can ebb and flow. Like, I discerned from the Handbook that there were things in it that resonated with me, but as I continued on it didn't anymore, I then "discerned" the information differently...

I used to follow this guy named Mark Kimmel, Mark's Corner and the Cosmic Paradigm site- he channels messages from ETs on the Albanthian, for YEARS now they've been saying the same thing, about cleansing the earth, returning her to a pristine condition, raising your vibration- only if you raise your vibration will you get to be a part of the new Earth, dark energies, etc, etc.- lots of pertinent stuff, so at the time it raised my awareness and furthered me on the journey.

But then at the same time I always felt somewhat "inferior," that is, why does he have the "honor" of getting messages channeled to him? Why not me? I'm open minded and willing, etc, am I not vibrating enough?....I guess it pricked at my ego, but it pricked my discernment to, because I started to doubt the validity of the messages and purpose of the site in general, it just didn't feel right for me anymore. I still go back and check it out every once in a while, and, 5 years later, the ET's are still saying they will be assisting us very soon....sigh. I just feel like so much is moving forward, myself included, while those messages seem stuck on repeat...'k this post is way longer than I intended, :whistle:

Definitely touched a chord, enfoldedblue, thanks!...

[ThresholdRising]

I learned after I was 18 that we are teachers before we are born and then we are students when we are born. And now thanks to this post see that discernment is important for elements of teacher of self.

Thanks for the great post