How The Gold Price Is Being Manipulated

[christian]

Paul Craig Roberts just wrote an article where he crystallized how the price of gold is artificially driven down, very interesting. Here's the essential method:




People ask me how I know that the Fed is rigging the bullion price and seem surprised that anyone would think the Fed and its bullion bank agents would do such a thing, despite the public knowledge that the Fed is rigging the bond market and the banks with the Fed’s knowledge rigged the Libor rate. The answer is that the circumstantial evidence is powerful.

Consider the 500 tons of paper gold sold on Friday. Begin with the question, how many ounces is 500 tons? There are 2,000 pounds to one ton. 500 tons equal 1,000,000 pounds. There are 16 ounces to one pound, which comes to 16 million ounces of short sales on Friday.

Who has 16 million ounces of gold? At the beginning gold price that day of about $1,550, that comes to $24,800,000,000. Who has that kind of money?

What happens when 500 tons of gold sales are dumped on the market at one time or on one day? Correct, it drives the price down. Investors who want to get out of large positions would spread sales out over time so as not to lower their sales proceeds. The sale took gold down by about $73 per ounce. That means the seller or sellers lost up to $73 dollars 16 million times, or $1,168,000,000.

Who can afford to lose that kind of money? Only a central bank that can print it.

Full article: http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/04/13/assault-on-gold-update-paul-craig-roberts/

[Jeffrey]

If I'm understanding this right ... I think the 500 tons was traded in the gold futures market. This would mean that the amount of money required to control the futures contract wouldn't be anywhere near the trillions of dollars. It would be a meager fraction (relative to the trillion dollar range) of what the gold's actual value is.

Maybe several tens of millions would be required to move around massive contracts such as this one. They aren't being traded by what the gold is worth, but on margin.

Someone else may be able to decipher this better. I'm still a noob.

[Jeffrey]

---------------

What are Gold Futures?

The gold futures market is one of a number of commodity futures, wherein contracts are entered into, agreeing to buy or sell gold at a certain price at a date in the future. Gold futures are used both as a way for producers and movers of gold to hedge their products against drastic fluctuations in the market, and as a way for speculators to make money off of those same movements in the market.

The gold futures market is one of the most heavily invested markets in the world, and often acts as a market people run to when the broader market is suffering. The gold futures market is very attractive for investors, in part because trading on margin allows for the relatively small movements of the gold market to translate into large financial gains.

When investing in gold futures, you are basically promising to someone that you will buy or sell a certain amount of gold to them at a settlement date in the future. For example, an investor is pretty convinced that the price of gold is going to go way up in the next three months. If he wanted to profit off of that by just buying and selling gold, and he had $1,000 US Dollars (USD) to invest, he would buy $1,000 USD worth of gold at $500 USD an ounce for a total of two ounces. If, in three months, it has gone up to $800 USD an ounce, he would have cleared a profit of $600 USD; not a bad profit, but also not terribly impressive.

By buying gold futures on margin, however, he can leverage the money he have to invest enormously. Depending on the state of the market and the size of his buy, the amount of money he has to put down on margin ranges from anywhere between 2% and 20% of the total amount that he wants to buy. In an average market, his margin on gold futures will probably be around 5%, so that same $1,000 USD can be used to buy gold futures for $20,000 USD worth of gold, or 40 ounces at $500 USD an ounce. If the price of gold increases the same amount, to $800 USD an ounce, he will have cleared a profit of $12,000 USD, even though he had only $1,000 USD to invest.

On the other hand, it is much easier to lose money quickly when trading gold futures on margin than when buying them with cash in hand. If that same 40 ounces loses only 5% of its value, going down to $475 USD an ounce, then the entire $1,000 USD initial investment will be gone. Periodically, margins will have to be topped off, as the price decreases to the point where you near expending all of your initial investment. If the investor is unable to top off his margin, then the account is closed out, and the investor loses all of his money. The temptation of gold futures is enormous, because of the huge amounts of money to be gained if it is played correctly, but the majority of people who trade gold on margin wind up losing their investments.

Source: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-gold-futures.htm

See also: http://www.bullionvault.com/guide/gold/Gold-futures

[Jeffrey]

--------------

Trading Gold Futures

x6DrFkTjNfc

[Jeffrey]

---------------

Are Silver and Gold Prices Manipulated?

lQs3ocMT2vY

[puurfectten]

since oct of 2011 1529 has been the support level of gold...thats where all the stops are placed mostly..when the news that cypres was gonna dump their gold to raise the money they need ...the gold market tanked and soon as the stops get taken out the selling naturally intensifies...:)...ohh...prices of everything are manipulated.....not just gold..just ask all those people who bought apple at 700....

[Jeffrey]

I don't think Cyprus is going to sell their gold on the open market. Most likely they will circumvent any exchanges and just deal directly with a private bank or a government. As I understand it, the prospect of gold plummeting due to Cyprus selling their reserves wouldn't directly affect market prices. It may have a psychological affect on investors and their behavior may inadvertently affect market prices.

JtIO54XTUhc

[WEAREONE]

Was wondering if there is any info regarding the bric countries and the push to not have the U.S. Dollar as the world reserve. And how Gold will play a part in the battle of the BRICS and other allied countries. Is there going to be a BRIC currency in the future? I dont see the BRICS holding as much Gold as I had anticipated, heres a link of BRICS and it a basic overview of BRICS, what stands out to me is they represent about 3 Billion people.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/769410.shtml#.UWr0vRzQvw4


and heres a post of Gold reserves by country from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve


As of December 2012 (Top 40 based on World Gold Council data)

Rank Country/Organization Gold(tonnes) (*)

1 United States 8,133.5 76 %
2 Germany 3,391.3 73 %
3 International Monetary Fund 2,814.0 N.A.
4 Italy 2,451.8 72 %
5 France 2,435.4 71 %
6 China 1,054.1 2 %
7 Switzerland 1,040.1 11 %
8 Russia 957.8 9 %
9 Japan 765.2 3 %
10 Netherlands 612.5 60 %
11 India 557.7 10 %
12 European Central Bank 502.1 33 %
13 Taiwan 423.6 6 %
14 Portugal 382.5 90 %
15 Venezuela 365.8 75 %
16 Turkey 359.6 16 %
17 Saudi Arabia 322.9 3 %
18 United Kingdom 310.3 16 %
19 Lebanon 286.8 29 %
20 Spain 281.6 30 %
21 Austria 280.0 55 %
22 Belgium 227.5 39 %
23 Philippines 192.7 12 %
24 Algeria 173.6 5 %
25 Thailand 152.4 4 %
26 Singapore 127.4 3 %
27 Sweden 125.7 13 %
28 South Africa 125.1 13 %
29 Mexico 124.5 4 %
30 Libya 116.6 5 %
31 Bank for International Settlements 116.0 N.A.
32 Kazakhstan 115.3 22 %
33 Greece 111.9 82 %
34 Romania 103.7 12 %
35 Poland 102.9 5 %
36 South Korea 84.4 1 %
37 Australia 79.9 9 %
38 Kuwait 79.0 13 %
39 Egypt 75.6 25 %
40 Indonesia 73.1 4 %
41 Kingdom of Denmark 66.5 4.1%
42 Islamic Republic of Pakistan 64.4 18.9%
43 Argentine Republic 54.7 6.4%
44 Federative Republic of Brazil 52.5 0.5%
45 Plurinational State of Bolivia 49.3 22.9%
46 Republic of Finland 49.1 24.6%
47 Republic of Bulgaria 39.9 12 %
48 Republic of Belarus 38.5 41.4%
49 West African Economic and Monetary Union 36.5 12.9%
50 Malaysia 36.4 1.5%

(*) Gold's share of national forex reserves as a per-centage.


===

[ Mod-edit: I added a source link and forced the gold holdings table into a
... block, in order to get the columns to align. - Paul. ]

[WEAREONE]

wheres Brazil and Gold rank 44. Seems low but then again who knows.I think theres something to be said for Gold who holds it and what the future holding will loook like if and when the U.S. dollar loses its worl reserve status. Any insight or links appreciated

[Selene]

The important thing to understand about futures contracts is that 99% of all contracts never intend to take delivery of the underlying commodity. This critical point means that most of the activity in futures is about paper profits or losses during the life of contract itself, not about buying or selling the actual gold. The price of gold as it fluctuates on the London LME - which actually handles physical gold - throughout the life of the contract determines the contract's value at any given moment.

But there's an important caveat here, as well. The twist in the tale. That is, that each commodity exchange that offers these contracts must have companies known as clearing houses who are legally responsible for guaranteeing the final transfer of value (profit or loss) to each party (buyer and seller) in the future contract - or will guarantee the delivery of the underlying commodity if someone asks for that.

That doesn't mean there actually has to be 500 bazillion ounces of physical gold at risk here. Like fractional banking, the clearing house only needs to keep or have access to perhaps only one or two percent of the hypothecated amount, "just in case". They can rely on the probabilities that 99% will never actually need delivery.

So, in terms of discussing gold futures, they are not necessarily an indication of how much actual gold anyone is keeping. I hope this is helpful.

To the larger question of whether gold prices are being artificially manipulated, it is better to look toward where the daily "fix" prices (which are the benchmark for daily trading) are set in London. To no one's great surprise this is done twice daily by a committee of five members in London at (ta dah!) N.M. Rothschild & Sons bank No kidding. Secret meeting, no minutes are kept, etc, etc. But the entire market is set by them. Period. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_fixing

This glaring financial loophole has recently attracted the attention of regulators who have otherwise been asleep for the past hundred years as part of the LIBOR interest rate fixing scandal. http://business.financialpost.com/2013/03/14/how-londons-gold-and-silver-prices-are-fixed/

After a bit of ceremonial sniffing around, I fully expect these "regulators" - who, after all, are from the industry they purport to regulate - to exonerate one and all (except perhaps one sacrificial "rogue trader" who will be thrown to the wolves...)

As usual.

But to the larger question: Do I think prices and markets are being artificially manipulated? Hell, yes. But that's another story... Any fellow Elliot Wave techies here? That's where the evidence might be buried. That is, once you understand how to make a chart look fractal and 'normal', it would seem to be an easy play to 'make the price activity look normal...' if you catch my drift. That's what big computer systems are for. Just keep setting the fix in the direction that looks 'normal.'

Cheers,

Selene

[puurfectten]

I don't think Cyprus is going to sell their gold on the open market. Most likely they will circumvent any exchanges and just deal directly with a private bank or a government. As I understand it, the prospect of gold plummeting due to Cyprus selling their reserves wouldn't directly affect market prices. It may have a psychological affect on investors and their behavior may inadvertently affect market prices.

JtIO54XTUhc

true...but the way markets work is they just have to imply it..not actually do it..it was when support got taken out at 1529 and took out the stop loss orders that intensified the selloff...next support is around 1435..should go there and if that gets taken out then we could get close to 1000..:)..believe it or not...

[puurfectten]

peter schiff is just another tool....let's see where it goes over the next couple of months and see where it goes..:)..

[ThePythonicCow]

Gold and silver, just as with the housing markets, the financial markets, the government debt (such as US Treasuries) market and even the "fiat" (debt-based) currency markets, are subject to vast distortions due to the centralized and highly non-transparent control by a few powerful corporations/families/individuals/agencies.

Somewhere, perhaps at JPMorgan, there is a trader who can view the price points and volumes of futures contracts on gold and silver, and with the click of a mouse, buy or sell large quantities of such contracts and of GLD or SLV (the major ETF's that are supposedly backed by gold and silver), guided by the twice daily (10.30am and 3pm, London time) price fixing of gold and silver set the London Bullion Market Association (LBMA). That price fixing is conducted on the premises of N M Rothschild & Sons in London. Those contracts are leveraged, as others have explained above in this thread. The gold and silver that the Chicago Mercantile Exchange (CME) supposedly holds behind these contracts is leveraged (less there than claimed) and rehypothecated (same metal promised to multiple customers). The gold and silver behind GLD and SLV is similarly likely less than claimed and rehypothecated. Some of this very gold and silver is perhaps claimed to be held in the vaults of JPMorgan, which is underground and adjacent to the vaults of the US Federal Reserve in Manhattan, New York. The conspiracy theory is that there is an underground tunnel between those two vaults, allowing for convenient shuffling back and forth between two of the (claimed) largest stores of gold and silver on the planet. Thousands of tons of this supposedly centrally held gold and silver have been "lent", at quite low rates, to major dealers for reselling into the market. That "lent" gold from Fort Knox might not even be there anyway; none of us ordinary folks, even the US President, are allowed to audit Fort Knox's gold. Hundred's of billions of dollars worth, perhaps trillions of dollars worth, of gold and silver are traded on the LBMA annually, almost all of which is supposedly held in their vaults.

Paper claims on top of leverage on top of rehypothecation on top of massive theft on top of deep dishonesty ... controlled by a very few. The market is so rigged at so many levels that even most of the riggers haven't close to enough clues to really know what's going on.

Just ask yourself ... what happens to that paper gold you bought (as a future contract or via GLD) when it turns out to have been stolen, rehypothecated, highly leveraged, "lent" gold due back to its "owners" (who never held it in the first place.) Ask yourself "Do you feel lucky today?".

There are only two questions an individual trader really needs to ask themselves when engaging in such a market.



Which direction are those in control pushing things, and when will their control fail?

If you answer both of those questions correctly, you could win (unless there is a deeper game also being played, at which you might lose, even worse.) Get either answer wrong, and you lose.

[Jeffrey]

The important thing to understand about futures contracts is that 99% of all contracts never intend to take delivery of the underlying commodity. This critical point means that most of the activity in futures is about paper profits or losses during the life of contract itself, not about buying or selling the actual gold. The price of gold as it fluctuates on the London LME - which actually handles physical gold - throughout the life of the contract determines the contract's value at any given moment.

But there's an important caveat here, as well. The twist in the tale. That is, that each commodity exchange that offers these contracts must have companies known as clearing houses who are legally responsible for guaranteeing the final transfer of value (profit or loss) to each party (buyer and seller) in the future contract - or will guarantee the delivery of the underlying commodity if someone asks for that.

That doesn't mean there actually has to be 500 bazillion ounces of physical gold at risk here. Like fractional banking, the clearing house only needs to keep or have access to perhaps only one or two percent of the hypothecated amount, "just in case". They can rely on the probabilities that 99% will never actually need delivery.

So, in terms of discussing gold futures, they are not necessarily an indication of how much actual gold anyone is keeping. I hope this is helpful.

To the larger question of whether gold prices are being artificially manipulated, it is better to look toward where the daily "fix" prices (which are the benchmark for daily trading) are set in London. To no one's great surprise this is done twice daily by a committee of five members in London at (ta dah!) N.M. Rothschild & Sons bank No kidding. Secret meeting, no minutes are kept, etc, etc. But the entire market is set by them. Period. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_fixing

This glaring financial loophole has recently attracted the attention of regulators who have otherwise been asleep for the past hundred years as part of the LIBOR interest rate fixing scandal. http://business.financialpost.com/2013/03/14/how-londons-gold-and-silver-prices-are-fixed/

After a bit of ceremonial sniffing around, I fully expect these "regulators" - who, after all, are from the industry they purport to regulate - to exonerate one and all (except perhaps one sacrificial "rogue trader" who will be thrown to the wolves...)

As usual.

But to the larger question: Do I think prices and markets are being artificially manipulated? Hell, yes. But that's another story... Any fellow Elliot Wave techies here? That's where the evidence might be buried. That is, once you understand how to make a chart look fractal and 'normal', it would seem to be an easy play to 'make the price activity look normal...' if you catch my drift. That's what big computer systems are for. Just keep setting the fix in the direction that looks 'normal.'

Cheers,

Selene

Very helpful, thank you.

Reading this, if it's not about acquiring the underlying commodities then the only reason to do it is to make money (as you pointed out). It's not about securing anything but profits in markets that speculators shouldn't even be in. The majority of this derivatives game is speculation on top of more speculation; and hedging the risks of speculating with other derivatives market tools.

This is utterly artificial. These are enormous sums of money/debt tied up in all of these contracts and the way they are traded reflects speculation, not the real value of the commodity as the natural market is supposed to determine it. Maybe you could help clarify it some more? It's easy to get lost in the jargon.

[gripreaper]

Selene gets it.

The market does historically move in waves, as Elliot theory describes, and the psychology behind it is designed to extract the most amount from the most people before it is reversed and the market goes the other way. It's typically five waves up with three intermittent waves down to draw in all the suckers and stupid money off the sidelines.

For example, there is NO fundamental reasons for the stock markets to be rallying at this time, as the elite are trashing all of the economies around the world and hoarding the money supplies so that they are not going into the economies for capital improvements or value added, as these instruments do not trickle down into your and my pockets. Instead, sidelined money is being forced into commerce seeking a place of value, and the propped up stock market "appears" to be the only store of value, when in fact, the air is so thin up there in the stratosphere of the market it is any wonder that we can breathe at all.

Conversely, the metals market is being taken out back behind the woodshed and severely beaten so that the weak hands will run for the exits before they are completely wiped out, when two years ago the mad rush to buy silver at 40 an ounce, you could not get an order filled to save your life. All those poor souls are being decimated and their wealth stripped. Many of them are selling and now buying into stocks.

So, no matter where you "THINK" you should store your wealth (an illusion anyway), the elite have the algorithms to know exactly where the flow of capital is occurring, into what sectors, what the velocity is, and how to extract it.

Unless you are a barnacle on the side of this aircraft carrier barreling through the sea of commerce, which is pillaging and plundering all sea life in it's wake, and remain below the radar unnoticed, you will get killed. Even with the most sophisticated software and trading ability, the algorithms will only follow technicals to a certain point. The only traders that I know of (and I know many) who consistently make money in stocks, daytrade based on the VWAP for the day, and close out their positions before the end of the day, rarely holding overnight. Most "investors" get clobbered.

[ThePythonicCow]

peter schiff is just another tool....let's see where it goes over the next couple of months and see where it goes..:)..
I've little doubt he's a tool. The Schiff family is one of the founding families of the financial oligarchy dominating us at this time. From The Federal Reserve Cartel: The Eight Families (globalresearch.ca) (http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-federal-reserve-cartel-the-eight-families/25080):



CPA Thomas D. Schauf corroborates McCallister’s claims, adding that ten banks control all twelve Federal Reserve Bank branches. He names N.M. Rothschild of London, Rothschild Bank of Berlin, Warburg Bank of Hamburg, Warburg Bank of Amsterdam, Lehman Brothers of New York, Lazard Brothers of Paris, Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York, Israel Moses Seif Bank of Italy, Goldman Sachs of New York and JP Morgan Chase Bank of New York. Schauf lists William Rockefeller, Paul Warburg, Jacob Schiff and James Stillman as individuals who own large shares of the Fed. [3] The Schiffs are insiders at Kuhn Loeb. The Stillmans are Citigroup insiders, who married into the Rockefeller clan at the turn of the century.
But an interesting question to ask is: What is this tool doing?

Pretty clearly Peter Schiff, and some others as well, such as Eric Janszen over at iTulip.com (http://www.itulip.com), who is a trusted contact of some members of the Federal Reserve Board, have been saying "Follow the gold!".

What was the informational content of Schiff's report posted above? It was a report that Cypress was having to use gold to cover debt, a recitation of how much gold and debt other nations have, and a prediction that that gold was moving from weak (endebted) hands to stronger hands of nations that had been running a trade surplus and now held much more in paper assets (such as US Treasuries) than in real gold.

The underlying message: Real physical gold determines the real wealth of real nations.

Schiff is speaking for those who want us to think financial power is moving from the London - New York axis to China and the other BRICS nations, but that that power presently still resides in the US, with its claimed 8133 tonnes of gold reserves, which is many times the official claimed gold reserves of China (1054 tonnes) or Russia (958 tonnes).

I doubt that financial power resides with nations. Rather I suspect it resides with the financiers, especially the powerful families such as the Rothschilds, Rockefellers Warburgs, and Schiffs, who control the money and gold of nations.

[puurfectten]

The important thing to understand about futures contracts is that 99% of all contracts never intend to take delivery of the underlying commodity. This critical point means that most of the activity in futures is about paper profits or losses during the life of contract itself, not about buying or selling the actual gold. The price of gold as it fluctuates on the London LME - which actually handles physical gold - throughout the life of the contract determines the contract's value at any given moment.

But there's an important caveat here, as well. The twist in the tale. That is, that each commodity exchange that offers these contracts must have companies known as clearing houses who are legally responsible for guaranteeing the final transfer of value (profit or loss) to each party (buyer and seller) in the future contract - or will guarantee the delivery of the underlying commodity if someone asks for that.

That doesn't mean there actually has to be 500 bazillion ounces of physical gold at risk here. Like fractional banking, the clearing house only needs to keep or have access to perhaps only one or two percent of the hypothecated amount, "just in case". They can rely on the probabilities that 99% will never actually need delivery.

So, in terms of discussing gold futures, they are not necessarily an indication of how much actual gold anyone is keeping. I hope this is helpful.

To the larger question of whether gold prices are being artificially manipulated, it is better to look toward where the daily "fix" prices (which are the benchmark for daily trading) are set in London. To no one's great surprise this is done twice daily by a committee of five members in London at (ta dah!) N.M. Rothschild & Sons bank No kidding. Secret meeting, no minutes are kept, etc, etc. But the entire market is set by them. Period. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_fixing

This glaring financial loophole has recently attracted the attention of regulators who have otherwise been asleep for the past hundred years as part of the LIBOR interest rate fixing scandal. http://business.financialpost.com/2013/03/14/how-londons-gold-and-silver-prices-are-fixed/

After a bit of ceremonial sniffing around, I fully expect these "regulators" - who, after all, are from the industry they purport to regulate - to exonerate one and all (except perhaps one sacrificial "rogue trader" who will be thrown to the wolves...)

As usual.

But to the larger question: Do I think prices and markets are being artificially manipulated? Hell, yes. But that's another story... Any fellow Elliot Wave techies here? That's where the evidence might be buried. That is, once you understand how to make a chart look fractal and 'normal', it would seem to be an easy play to 'make the price activity look normal...' if you catch my drift. That's what big computer systems are for. Just keep setting the fix in the direction that looks 'normal.'

Cheers,

Selene

i'm pretty sure we can pull back to 1033.9 ish and still be in a 4 with a 5 up to put in a new high...the breakdow would be kicking off the c wave of 4....it can go deep :)..

[Conchis]

Making money in the markets, and it doesn't matter if it's stock or commodity, is dependent upon having lots of volatility. Lots of volatility means large swings one way or the other.

[GlassSteagallfan]

Jim Willie:

The divergence between the paper Gold price dominated by futures contracts, and the physical Gold price dominated by purchase and delivery of the metal bars, has grown wide and will grow wider. While many are heard in the hue & cry of the declined supposed Gold price, it is not the Gold price. It is the corrupted paper Gold price that the deceived masses focus too much on. The professionals in the Gold market who actually act on contracts for large volume deliveries are noticing the strains on supply, which is fast disappearing. The true Gold price is much higher than advertised by the corrupted networks devoted to the financial syndicate in charge. The drainage of the COMEX and LBMA is hastened, made quick by the discount offered. The Boyz are draining their own blood on stage in full view, but the majority within the gold community are lamenting the falling corrupted price. What irony! The Boyz in New York and London are committing bank suicide on the global stage, yet the investor crowd cannot see. When the big US and London bank vaults are empty of gold bullion, the game will suddenly change. The power will shift to the East. The USDollar will be devalued, buried, replaced. The Gold Standard will rise in the East like the sun in a new dawn, but a standard based in trade settlement that will turn the West upside down.



The Shanghai Metals Exchange sports a significant useful practical Gold price spread, higher than the posted London and New York price. It has opened the door for arbitrage for the last two months or more. My firm suspicion is that the BRICS Development Fund will convert USTreasury Bonds by means of the Shanghai window, thus draining the London centers of their gold bullion. As of 8am today in London, the Shanghai Gold price had a 1591 handle, compared to a 1555 handle in London. That constitutes a $36/oz spread, very feasible for arb trades and the associated drainage of London metal. The professionals are having a field day, exploiting the artificially offered Gold price achieved from yet more naked gold futures contract shorting. The depletion of the SPDR Gold Trust (GLD shares) continues at a frenetic pace. The big US banks are shorting the GLD shares, removing its gold bar inventory overnight, and selling into the market. Or else they are covering their similar sales obligations in like manner. The key to the divergence is that as the phony paper Gold price declines more and more, it signals the demise of the COMEX itself, a shutdown. The event cannot happen without the price divergence, the fast falling paper Gold price versus the stable rising physical Gold price. When the COMEX goes dark, from depleted inventory, from vacated client players, the Gold price will actually not be known for some time. Then later, it will be on display from various key centers across the globe, including Shanghai where naked futures contract activity is not sponsored by the state.

http://silverdoctors.com/jim-willie-zirp-the-death-knell/

[Jeffrey]

Schiff is speaking for those who want us to think financial power is moving from the London - New York axis to China and the other BRICS nations, but that that power presently still resides in the US, with its claimed 8133 tonnes of gold reserves, which is many times the official claimed gold reserves of China (1054 tonnes) or Russia (958 tonnes).

Do we really think the US has that amount of gold reserves though? Also, do we really believe China only has 1054? Considering their intended goal of 10,000 plus the fact that a few years back they only had around that amount (1054). The numbers don't fit the trend of growth that we'd expected their reserves to grow to at this time. As I understand it, if China really did have around say 5,000 tons and put it on their books as such, it would drive up the price of gold. Therefore, it would make it more expensive for them to reach their future mark.



I doubt that financial power resides with nations. Rather I suspect it resides with the financiers, especially the powerful families such as the Rothschilds, Rockefellers Warburgs, and Schiffs, who control the money and gold of nations.

Yes sir. I agree. Governments representing these countries are just proxies for these big financiers.

I didn't realize the Schiff connection, thanks for the lead. I was already somewhat wary of his judgements based on the fact that he is heavily invested in gold, so there is that possible bent to consider.

[ThePythonicCow]

Do we really think ...
No ... :).

[Jeffrey]

Haha, okay, just checking. There is a lot to learn for me here -- just trying to understand it all. I've got some catching up to do.

[Jeffrey]

Do we really think ...
No ... :).

Ohhhhhh. Paul, I'd read what you wrote a few times before I commented on it.

I went back and read it again, and now I see the point you were making. You are saying that Schiff is proposing that the power is shifting hands based on where the gold is going and that US/UK still has most of it (according to him).

What you were implying is that the power is shifting according to where ever these mega-financier families dictate, and that the gold that has already moved to the BRICS nations has been underestimated (namely China and Russia) just like the "western" reserves have been overestimated. So, the mega-financiers have favored China and Russia for the future power structure (or they are the pawns that will facilitate breaking the current structure so the new one can be ushered in).

Whew, okay. I think we are on the same page.

[ThePythonicCow]

Whew, okay. I think we are on the same page.
Well, I'm not sure what page I am on.

I slowly figure out what games they are playing, peeling the onion of deceit.

However (1) some of their games will continue for long after I shake this mortal coil, even if I did see them as a game, and (2) some of their games I'll never unravel.

So, as always, I hedge my bets. Like a mouse living amongst a battle of lions, rhinoceros's and elephants, I adapt. So long as I don't take a direct hit on my puny body from one of their feet, I find ways to keep on living, for the time allotted to me in this life.

Some of the alternatives that I can articulate at present, all of which likely miss the mark, are

that they are striving for a one world government with an all digital currency and a fully chipped humanity, or
that this is a struggle between Western and Eastern powers with the Eastern powers on the ascendancy, or
that the Old World Order of the bastards in power is collapsing as Age of Aquarius dawns, or
that the Anglo-American empire is still firmly in charge and just adding more control over China and more control over American people with this false drama, or
that we're about to have some catastrophic earth change (Clif High's Global Coastal Event or Paul LaViolette's Galactic Superwave?) that will change everything, or
that the aliens are about to invade and wreck havoc, or
that the aliens are about to return and raise humanity to a new and higher level, or
that the bastards in power are about to fake an alien invasion in order to crank up their tyrannical control over and extraction of resources from the rest of us, or
that not much serious will happen and we'll still be debating these and other alternatives in another decade, or
that this is like the Great Depression leading once again to a major world war and increased international government, or
the increased awareness wrought by the Internet is giving rise to a new level of awareness of what's really going on, of our real history, and of the truly powerful capabilities of a physics now kept secret, or
that ... none of the above.

[Selene]

Never, never underestimate China, my friends. They were the smart ones who insisted on cutting into the so-called Fort Knox gold bars shipped to them by the US gov't in payment for bond debt - and who discovered that these 'perfect' bars were in fact sh*t: only gold-plated tungsten. Not gold at all. This broke the story wide open. The 'gold bars' left in the US Mint/Federal Reserve - if any - are fakes. Oooops.

So the obvious question is: whose gold is real or only plated tungsten? Or any?

Stay tuned.

Cheers,

Selene

[Jeffrey]

----------

HERE WE GO AGAIN…SILVER PLUNGING TO $23 HANDLE, GOLD TO $1420: FREE-FALL IN PROGRESS! (http://silverdoctors.com/here-we-go-again-gold-silver-gap-down-on-globex/)

http://silverdoctors.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/silver19.gif

http://silverdoctors.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/gold15.gif

----------

Apparently due to the Cyprus announcement (and probably the 500 tons dumped in the derivatives market ... and the landslide at the mines, although I suspect that the last one would drive prices up).

I hope it drops a little more because I've got an appointment at the local shop to buy some silver at the end of this week!

[Selene]

Heckuva deal, Vivek.

Go for it.

Cheers,

Selene

[ThePythonicCow]

----------

HERE WE GO AGAIN…SILVER PLUNGING TO $23 HANDLE, GOLD TO $1420: FREE-FALL IN PROGRESS! (http://silverdoctors.com/here-we-go-again-gold-silver-gap-down-on-globex/)

----------

Apparently due to the Cyprus announcement (and probably the 500 tons dumped in the derivatives market ... and the landslide at the mines, although I suspect that the last one would drive prices up).

I hope it drops a little more because I've got an appointment at the local shop to buy some silver at the end of this week!

From Gold, Silver In Asian Liquidation Mode As China Growth Slows More (Zerohedge) (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-14/gold-asian-liquidation-mode):




As Asia opens to the bloodbath that occurred in precious metals on Friday in the US, it would appear that more than a few traders got the 'tap on the shoulder'. Shanghai futures are limit-down and spot gold and silver prices are plunging once again as we suspect forced margin-calls and the raising of cash (to cover extreme variation margin - or capital reserves) needed in JGB positions, as we explained here. Liquidation is certainly the theme of the evening - investors are selling JGBs (6th day in a row of multiple-sigma moves in long-dated Japanese bonds 30Y +56bps off its post-BoJ lows at 1.60%!), selling Japanese stocks (Nikkei -128 pts, second biggest down day post-BoJ), selling US Treasuries (futures down), selling gold and silver (gold spot down over $100 from Friday's highs)

... everything is red - JGBs down, Japanese stocks down, US Stocks down, US Treasuries down, Gold and Silver down, Copper down, Oil down, Rubber futures limit down

In short, it seems to be a continuing reaction to the Japanese decision to inflate their currency. Whatever can be sold is being sold, to cover margin calls.

[gripreaper]

forced margin-calls. take advantage of these fire sale prices.

[christian]

Man, I should have shorted gold and silver a week ago...

Homment.com: Gold and silver plummet to multi-year lows, exceptionally high trading volume on the futures markets (http://homment.com/gold-panic-selling)

[PHARAOH]

"Metals are the next bubble"!!! I have mentioned this before. Notice how the markets sway on metals.

Metals up, Market down.

Metals down, Market up.

Just an observation. :hat:

[kanishk]

----------

I hope it drops a little more because I've got an appointment at the local shop to buy some silver at the end of this week!

Is it good to buy silver via internet from highly recognized company who parcel physical coins and silver at you address?

In India bullionindia is the only company who are providing Gold and Silver on market prices inclusive of all the Taxes (VAT), and make purchasers able to get their Physical metals delivery at door step.

This is the website: http://www.bullionindia.in
jointly promoted by NCDEX Spot Exchange Limited(NSPOT), RiddiSiddhi Bullions Limited(RSBL),and Finkurve Financial Services Limited(FFSL).

FAQ What is Bullion India?

"'Bullion India' is a vehicle which facilitates investment in physical gold and silver with the ease of online access and in smaller denominations. The gold and silver are in electronic form and backed by equivalent quantities of physical bullion. They can be purchased and sold online in a secured and convenient manner.

The Clients can also take physical delivery of the bullion in form of coins/bars in varied denominations. More so, the bars/coins are delivered at the clients’ doorsteps! Bullion India also plans to reach out to the masses that are not-so-net-savvy by appointing Intermediaries/Brokers for them."

And RiddiSiddhi Bullions Limited(RSBL) have also lunched another product called 'Bullion++'http://www.bullionplusplus.com. Were they don't(officially they do) give physical delivery of bullion to investors, but allows them to lend the gold and silver to various professional bullion market participants against adequate security and after thorough KYC. The borrower will pay a certain lending income to RSBL Commodities and the income thereof will be passed to the investors as stipulated.

Is there a possibility that today or in future the coins/bars they deliver will be fake, made out of tin..?

[Jeffrey]

I don't know kanishk. If they are highly recognized and have a good reputation, then I'd feel better about it. It's a tough call.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


From: http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/52005

[Doug Hagmann]: How soon do you see things taking place?

[Rosebud]: They already are in motion. If you’re looking for a date I can’t tell you. Remember, the objectives are the same, but plans, well, they adapt. They exploit. Watch how this fiscal cliff thing plays out. This is the run-up to the next big economic event.

I can’t give you a date. I can tell you to watch things this spring. Start with the inauguration and go from there. Watch the metals. When they dip, it will be a good indication that things are about to happen.

That interview was from last December. I think it's safe to say metals are dipping now, and it is springtime.

Gold selloff intensifies, falls to $1,383 (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2013/04/15/gold-prices-tumble/2083537/)

Gold Extends Bear-Market Plunge Below $1,400 (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-15/gold-extends-bear-market-losses-as-investors-reduce-etp-holdings.html)

http://www.monex.com/images/charts/GBX_HILO_90DAY_BIG.PNG

http://www.infomine.com/ChartsAndData/GraphEngine.ashx?z=f&gf=110575.USD.oz&dr=1m

[Jeffrey]

----------

Guys and gals. Ladies and gents. Gold is down $100 today and it's not even lunchtime here!

Platinum and palladium are down averaging -5%.

Silver is approaching -11% and gold is approaching -8%.

[ThePythonicCow]

Guys and gals. Ladies and gents. Gold is down $100 today and it's not even lunchtime here!

Platinum and palladium are down averaging -5%.

Silver is approaching -11% and gold is approaching -8%.
Over on the subscriber's side at iTulip.com, Eric Janszen is noticing that this fall in the price of gold and silver (15% so far in the last five days) is a larger fall than 2 of the 3 declines we saw in the 2008 disruptions. Eric's guess is that the main motivator for this decline is concern's over China's economy. China has been the remaining economic engine still (claiming) to be growing, and enabling themselves and their trading partners such as Russia to purchase more gold. The economic news would take a depressing turn if their economy starts shrinking.

[ThePythonicCow]

Over at ZeroHedge: Gold Drops Most In 30 Years (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-15/gold-drops-most-30-years). This is the largest two day drop in gold in 30 years. There have been three waves of declines, in the Asian, European and US markets in turn. Gold is down over 12% in two days, a decline not seen since 1983.

It's definitely a selling climax.

My current take ... perhaps we're not going to inflate our way out of this current economic/financial/monetary crisis, but rather deflate our way out. Perhaps some (though I suppose not all) currencies such as dollars, euros, pounds, yen, rubles, marks, ...will become increasingly scarce! Austerity prevails over all!

Clearly the bastards in power want to continue to steal from us, and clearly this is more easily done if we can't make payments on all the excess debt, personal, corporate and government, that we have accumulated. A shortage of cold hard cash assists greatly in that endeavor.

[ThePythonicCow]

Over on the subscriber's side at iTulip.com, Eric Janszen is noticing that this fall in the price of gold and silver (15% so far in the last five days) is a larger fall than 2 of the 3 declines we saw in the 2008 disruptions. Eric's guess is that the main motivator for this decline is concern's over China's economy.
Zerohedge has more details on the weakening Chinese economy: All Eyes On The Gold Rout, Most Oversold In 14 Years (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-15/all-eyes-gold-rout-most-oversold-14-years):



Speaking of deteriorating economics, here is a brief recap of the Chinese data via SocGen:

The week opened with a truckload of unpleasant surprises from Chinese activity data. GDP growth decelerated unexpectedly to 7.7%yoy in Q1 from 7.9%yoy previously. March industrial production and fixed asset investment also came in decisively below street expectations, despite accommodative liquidity conditions. The data disappointment shocked down prices of all kinds of risky assets, from the AUD, commodity prices, to stock markets across the region. We do not think Q1 marked the end of recovery, as the lagged impact of rapid credit growth in the past few months should kick in later. However, at the same time, the latest data firmly support our call for a weak and short-lived cyclical recovery of the Chinese economy in 2013.
However Zerohedge doubts that this decline in the gold market is all China's fault:




While China's trifecta miss (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-15/asian-stocks-drop-as-u-s-retail-sales-fall-ahead-of-chinese-gdp.html) of GDP, Retail Sales and Industrial Production all coming lower than expected was likely a factor in the overnight rout of gold, the initial burst of selling started well before the Chinese data hit the tape, or as soon as Japan opened for trading with forced financial institution selling to prefund cash for any and all future JGB VaR-driven margin calls. It was all downhill from there ...
In another article Gold Crush Started With 400 Ton Friday Forced Sale On COMEX (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-15/gold-crush-started-400-ton-friday-forced-sale-comex), Zerohedge notes that the collapse in the price of gold began with the sale on COMEX last Friday of 400 tonnes of gold via selling of the June gold futures contract, in a 100 tonne, then a subsequent 300 tonne, sale.

[Jeffrey]

Governments representing these countries are just proxies for these big financiers.

I just read the following quote, which really summarizes this concept quite well.




"When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes.

Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain."

— Napoleon Bonaparte —

[ThePythonicCow]

Here is one of those many forecasts that will likely never pan out and be forgotten once the time has past ... unless it does pan out.

From an article sent to silverdoctors.com: Force Majeure Was the End Game All Along, COMEX Will Default in the Next Week! (http://silverdoctors.com/force-majeur-was-the-end-game-all-along-comex-will-default-in-the-next-week/):




The COMEX will default in the next week or several weeks and people will be “settled” with Dollars, no more metal will be delivered! So, knowing that “game over” has arrived, they are dumping a massive volume of paper contracts with impunity to push the metals prices as low as possible before the “default”. This way the “shorts” do not have to and will not be “covered” when “supply” cannot be obtained because of “an act of God”. They will be settled in cash (at a profit no less) because these “unforeseen” disruptions in supply. “Who could have seen it coming?” will be the mantra. I would suspect that banking stress and “bail ins” will also become prevalent globally. The pricing structure” will now push any and all physical sellers away from the markets and the “door” to safety is effectively being shut. Either you own metal or you don’t.
Caveat emptor - silverdoctors.com makes its money selling silver :).