The problem with believing in disclosure

[shadowstalker]

More then 75% the world has admitted to E.T.'s and U.F.O's (visiting in the past and still visiting)either thru T.V. News papers. Radio and the like. Even willing to take in testimony from average folks, and not ridicule them or threaten there lives, like we do.

But for some strange reason we are here convinced that it has not happened simply because the the U.S. is unwilling to jump on the Main stream band wagon per say (CNN & FOX NEWS)..:hand:

Have we been so conned into believing that just because the U.S. hasn't admitted to these things that DISCLOSER hasn't happened per say?

Have we been so BRAIN WASHED into believing that only the U.S. Can make it (discloser) all BELIEVABLE.:confused:

I am embarrassed to know that.:o

Discloser has happened but for some strange reason we are not willing to deal with it unless one particular country (America) opens it's doors to it.

Are we really that BRAIN WASHED?:confused:

YES WE ARE:o:(

[Peace of Mind]

Hi Shadowstalker,

What we’ve been taught in school and books about space comes from untrustworthy people/sources…second hand info. I know too many people from various walks of life and I have yet to meet anyone who has seen a ufo/ or alien. I’m not saying these are false claims but there is also no proof.

Now, if we go by what was giving to us by astrologist and so on…about space and beyond…it wouldn’t make since to think that we are the only life in the cosmos.


The thing is…as individuals…how many of us can really confirm what’s actually above the clouds. The moon could be an Eye in the sky, or a whole in a giant black garbage bag, anything. My point is finding definitive proof and not relying on speculations, telescopes, and lies…first hand is a must now days because trust is lacking…there’s just too many speculations and very little facts presented.

Peace

[Elandiel BernElve]

I see your point Shadowstalker. You see disclosure has happened in some way.

- It is widely believed "they" exist and are here.
- Official documentation on the subject is still undisclosed as are the many secret technologies and benefits we had from them and backengineering.
- Disclosure also means contact and now there is no direct contact. We have no public front as a way to represent our civilization to them.

Disclosure is a process but could happen as fast as one day

[shadowstalker]

Hi Shadowstalker,

What we’ve been taught in school and books about space comes from untrustworthy people/sources…second hand info. I know too many people from various walks of life and I have yet to meet anyone who has seen a ufo/ or alien. I’m not saying these are false claims but there is also no proof.

Now, if we go by what was giving to us by astrologist and so on…about space and beyond…it wouldn’t make since to think that we are the only life in the cosmos.


The thing is…as individuals…how many of us can really confirm what’s actually above the clouds. The moon could be an Eye in the sky, or a whole in a giant black garbage bag, anything. My point is finding definitive proof and not relying on speculations, telescopes, and lies…first hand is a must now days because trust is lacking…there’s just too many speculations and very little facts presented.

Peace

Simply put you are right As "certain individuals" do think that,
But that was not what I was referring to.
I am speaking to the U.F.O community as a whole.
Academia as always lied to us. so that in it's self is null & void.

As for the issue of speculations, that is what discloser, is suppose to confirm.

[steve_a]

Hi Shadowstalker & Peace of Mind,

I can understand where both of you are coming from. My view is sightly different. There is something out there. Why? Why not? Of all the different planets, solar systems, galaxies, cosmoses being found out recently that would at least give hundreds if not thousands of planet with the same conditions as this one, I'm sure just by logic, there's a good chance of having life out there as we know it. But let's take this one step further, broaden our horizons. What if life out there doesn't need the ideal conditions we need here on Earth to survive as a species? Or what if life out there needs less conditions that we need? What I'm trying to get at here is that the permutations are almost infinite for life to exist. Just for our 'ideal conditions' there are thousands of possibilities.

Changing the tack a little, religion is widely beleived. Has anybody proven without a shadow of a doubt that God exists? No, of course not. And which God is the true God? Is it Buddha? Jehova? Wickka? Are the Pagan gods real? One of, if not the most richest organizations on this planet, the Vatican, has been making a nice little earner over the last thousand years or so on the base of a theory.

I really don't think it necessary that Fox or CNN has to interview an Alien to prove they exist, it's something we beleive in or don't. But I do share the frustration of creative writers claiming to be 'experts' in a field that is merely a theory at this stage. Most of them would be the first ones to run if they saw an alien craft landing on the presidential lawn. Most of it I tend to ignore, except for one or two really bad snake oil salesmen that really do need to be cut down to size. If you just believe, or not, and settle for that, then you will have found the peace of mind you are looking for. No need to expose your views, unless you feel it would be helpful to others and close your mind to a lot of the unecessary crap that is out there and your time spent on Earth will be a lot more peaceful.

Don't forget, when it happens, if it happens, it happens. Not a lot you nor I can do about it.

Dislosure is for the masses that wouldn't normally be interested or who might be interested but never got around to deepen their interest in this sort of thing anyway. Just to keep the general population informed.

Best regards,

Steve

[shadowstalker]

I see your point Shadowstalker. You see disclosure has happened in some way.

- It is widely believed "they" exist and are here.
- Official documentation on the subject is still undisclosed as are the many secret technologies and benefits we had from them and backengineering.
- Disclosure also means contact and now there is no direct contact. We have no public front as a way to represent our civilization to them.

Disclosure is a process but could happen as fast as one day

Official documentation on the subject is still undisclosed:
in this country..
as are the many secret technologies and benefits we had from them and backengineering.
TPTB will never disclose that, in this life time, especially in this life time.
Disclosure also means contact and now there is no direct contact.:
on an individual basis there has been.
We have no public front as a way to represent our civilization to them.
They already know us as in individual contact, but as a community we are to scared to make it happen, we have plenty of us to represent our selves to them.

The problem with some of these discloser folks is that they want the whole kit and caboodle, which will never happen, this works on the mind set of greed, (all or nothing attitude) and it is sad to say the least.

Keep it simple and thing may work out, try to grab to much and folks will never be satisfied

[shadowstalker]

Hi Shadowstalker & Peace of Mind,

I can understand where both of you are coming from. My view is sightly different. There is something out there. Why? Why not? Of all the different planets, solar systems, galaxies, cosmoses being found out recently that would at least give hundreds if not thousands of planet with the same conditions as this one, I'm sure just by logic, there's a good chance of having life out there as we know it. But let's take this one step further, broaden our horizons. What if life out there doesn't need the ideal conditions we need here on Earth to survive as a species? Or what if life out there needs less conditions that we need? What I'm trying to get at here is that the permutations are almost infinite for life to exist. Just for our 'ideal conditions' there are thousands of possibilities.

Changing the tack a little, religion is widely beleived. Has anybody proven without a shadow of a doubt that God exists? No, of course not. And which God is the true God? Is it Buddha? Jehova? Wickka? Are the Pagan gods real? One of, if not the most richest organizations on this planet, the Vatican, has been making a nice little earner over the last thousand years or so on the base of a theory.

I really don't think it necessary that Fox or CNN has to interview an Alien to prove they exist, it's something we beleive in or don't. But I do share the frustration of creative writers claiming to be 'experts' in a field that is merely a theory at this stage. Most of them would be the first ones to run if they saw an alien craft landing on the presidential lawn. Most of it I tend to ignore, except for one or two really bad snake oil salesmen that really do need to be cut down to size. If you just believe, or not, and settle for that, then you will have found the peace of mind you are looking for. No need to expose your views, unless you feel it would be helpful to others and close your mind to a lot of the unecessary crap that is out there and your time spent on Earth will be a lot more peaceful.

Don't forget, when it happens, if it happens, it happens. Not a lot you nor I can do about it.

Dislosure is for the masses that wouldn't normally be interested or who might be interested but never got around to deepen their interest in this sort of thing anyway. Just to keep the general population informed.

Best regards,

Steve

Alien life out side this galaxy:
I am with you on that, once again academia spoils the soup.

Religion:,
I believe is pandora's box outright, to many people have died over that debate, more so then anyone believing in U.F.O's. and E.T.s as a whole..

Mianstream media:
I don't think an interview would work out very well any way, but would be cool tho'
as for experts well, no such animal, as there is always something new popping up somewhere,, and that is always in debate as well.

As for your last paragraph:
Not altogether true, but true in a sense.

[Etherios]

erm disclosure doesnt mean that they persuade us that there are aliens... Aliens arent something you believe exists or not.

The acknowledgment of life in space is something that hasnt happened. NOWHERE... all the UFO files say that there are U.F.O.s not aliens. Not even 1 country has admited aliens are real.

If they admit it then there will be social and religion effects... You can not even go to new techs etc... Just the issue that almost all the countries in the planet know about aliens and have known for years is a huge shock for the majority of the humans. If you think that the ppl that think aliens are visiting earth is a majority you are totally wrong.

Atm all we have is a belief (officially and socially)... the way things are now there is nothing to make humans feel as a single unit. Just the fact (which i totaly disagree) that there are "OTHERS" out there in space will "force" the minds of millions to stop thinking jews/arabs/europeans/asians are different. We are one human race ... one society.

P.s. 1 ppl atm are at the situation where they say yes aliens exist out there ... the the few of us that know they are here and have been here for eons (sumeria atc)
P.s. 2 There are ppl that think gulf oil is gone just because fox said so.... trust me we need official anouncement else it will be just a believe.... not facts.

[shadowstalker]

Etherios
If you are referring to my question of dis-closer, i never said anything of persuasion.
And of course there would be social and religion effects and there has been, my neighbors alone have a magor issue on what the pope has stated about possible life out there.
Never said anything about alien belief as a majority.
The way things are now there is nothing to make humans feel as a single unit. never said by me. maybe by others.

There have been a few links from china and some from Britain that sate they are out there just to name a few..
But i dont hold those links as my puter likes to crash from time to time so I stopped bookmarking.

You may need to do more research on it. to confirm for your self. IT takes a whole lot of digging, and some links have been deleted

But then again that is what dis-closer is about, to confirm...

But if your just generalizing to the thread then kool:cool:

[Etherios]

nono there has not been any official release that talks about Aliens.

U.F.O. = Unidentified Flying Objects / U.S.O = Unidentified Submersible Objects

YES many files said there are 5% of UFO/USO reports... that can be secret Russian/American/etc etc planes UAVs (if its typed like this) or others.

I have been reading/watching for years .... the closest to disclosure of Alien life from "official" mouths is the last Vatican report. Search all you like you wont find any that they state aliens exist they are here.

[shadowstalker]

Like i said:
IT takes a whole lot of digging, and some links have been deleted.
Which is part of the dis-closer issue to begin with.
Give them some candy then take it away.

[Etherios]

So it isnt disclosed... If it was we wouldnt need to dig to find info on it.


Anyway back on topic the results of disclosure will have i believe both good and bad outcomes.... And i dont think USA will be the one to do it. Either the ETs will do this themselves or russia china who knows.

USA is too deep in the cover up and has the most to loose from it ... NWO doesnt want ppl to change to think ... they have almost achieve their goals. They are almost there :-P

Now why some are obsesed with mainstream media to do this is because the majority of all the humans are obedient to the tv... its sad but its true. The manipulations is at an extreme status and i dont know if we are able to break free. SO if THEY dont do this it doesnt exist :-(

[shadowstalker]

Actually they do want us to know just on there terms,
Hence, give a little then take it away to keep the debate moving and folks questioning.
It's all a game that they have made the rules to play with.

[Etherios]

now we totally 100% agree we are letting them play us ... unfortunately :-(

[shadowstalker]

now we totally 100% agree we are letting them play us ... unfortunately :-(

I will not debate because it is simply true.
But my question is still posed how much info as a UFO and ET community do we really need to know that disc-loser has in deed happened and why do we not accept it simply because the U.S. has not jumped in.

[Etherios]

hmm i dont think we are waitting disclosure so that we accept it. we need that to be able to approach our society friends family and not get ridiculed. Or if not ridiculed yes they exist we will never meet them etc etc.

They just wont spend time to think about it... they are too busy trying to survive. SO disclosure will not persuade/make us right. It will help us reach society

[Agape]

I think, but that's my opinion, what the world is waiting for is more comprehensive knowledge that would give good sense and for that to happen, politics and individual nations' interests would have to step aside.
Around the world, in clandestine posession of various scientific programs and individuals, seem to exist real and undeniable proofs, pieces of the whole puzzle , but each is too little to represent the unknown reality of ET life alone.
I'm saying unknown because knowing the difference between our human capabilities and those of advanced civilisations in space, even if someone is in posession of a piece of knowledge, it's too tiny compared to what that particular reality represents.


They don't want to disclose something they're not certain of what it means, how it behaves, they don't know how to relate to 'it'.

Yes, it's a great pity that there's such a little cooperation between public and scientific authorities on those matters and that nations are playing secrecy games about it till now, instead joining their hands and joining the dots.

[Dale]

I'm a bit disenchanted with "disclosure."

Most people are highly open to the reality of ET's, especially when compared to those living 50 or 100 years ago. What, exactly, would "disclosure" be? A government official going on television and telling audiences that "ET's are real?" Hasn't this happened several times in the past? Paul Hellyer, coming to mind first. And which country sets the standards of "disclosure?" Do Brazil and Mexico's past "disclosures" not count?

To me, ET's are as real as the people ardently denying their existence.

"Disclosure" can be a tricky subject. How can one know, with one hundred percent proof, that what's being "disclosed" isn't, in fact, misinformation?

[Etherios]

i disagree with you... maybe you know they are here... but billions will have to get slapped "officially" in order to accept this. Its just that the mind if not sure about something will try to get the most positive outcome thus not really accepting the fact of ETs till someone they feel is "official" enough slaps them with the truth. It doesnt matter if it will be disinfo.

I relly think that just the ETs exist fact is enough to change the way humans see earth and each other. (at least normal humans not nwo ones)

[Celine]

75% of 6 billion people report alien contact?

[Dale]

Yikes!

Let me clarify. I'm disenchanted with the idea of an official, bloated, televised version of "Disclosure of Dummies." With this kind of a "disclosure," the average folks on the receiving end of their television screens really have no way of knowing if the information presented is factual, misinformed, or deliberately deceptive.

I'm highly in favor of supporting small, or local, grassroots efforts at providing a kind of "disclosure." Much like Project Camelot has been doing. I'm highly skeptical of anything that appears across our television screens, either saying "ET is our friend," or "Let's all shoot down ET's space ship," or maybe something in between.

[Rhiannon]

there were many valid points made why disclosure from government officials would be welcomed. on the other hand why should i expect any of these indivuals to tell me the truth about extraterrestrial life after they had been lying to me just about everything else? ... if at this point in time the u.s. government was to disclose i would get very concerned that the time of the fake alien invasion has finally arrived...

to me personally the testemony of my fellow human beings is far more credible...

[Fredkc]

"Disclosure" can be a tricky subject. How can one know, with one hundred percent proof, that what's being "disclosed" isn't, in fact, misinformation?
Without an actual event to refer to, the discussion is really impossible.

If some official disclosure should happen (and the only way I think it will ever come is in the form of some half-truth as damage control) then it would not be up to everyone's expectations. Therefore the discussion would still come back to what Cipher said above. And it would also be just as unresolvable as it stands now.

Sitting around, waiting for a nice Presidential fireside chat about the existence of ET, will not change what's real. Or to put it even more bluntly:
Even cattle trust the rancher because he bring or leads them to food.

I can't think how a government proclamation would explain what I have experienced, or help me understand what really occurred, or why.

And I still think if what you are really waiting for is a government 'confession' as to their involvement to date... well I certainly hope you have many hobbies to fill the time.
Fred

[Ki's]

I usually consider the History Channel to be a major source of dis-info, but last night they aired a program called: "I know what I saw" Did anyone happen to see it? There was some interesting (and I thought significant) revelations about UFO's.
The subject matter was treated seriously. It seems to me that information is being released into the mainstream in small manageable doses.
Interested in any thoughts or opinions from anyone who might have seen it.

[kaliestar]

Hi everybody! First time I post here.

I think it's so funny when people say "where are the aliens?" cause they simply have always been here, long before us, as we know.

We have a tradition of not seing what is right on our noses and biting us, lol.

There are many mysteries that have already been "solved", regarding our race and our world past, everyday we have more answers.

So, the truth is out there, for a long time, already...

[kaliestar]

I usually consider the History Channel to be a major source of dis-info, but last night they aired a program called: "I know what I saw" Did anyone happen to see it? There was some interesting (and I thought significant) revelations about UFO's.
The subject matter was treated seriously. It seems to me that information is being released into the mainstream in small manageable doses.
Interested in any thoughts or opinions from anyone who might have seen it.

Hi Ki's!

Friday I watched a program by the National Geographic, showing people who saw a triangular big "ufo" on Phoenix, Arizona, some 12 years ago. It was funny how the program tried to "explain" the sightings, with our science, mathmatics, physics, etc... so funny how we always try to squeeze higher intelligences into our white boards...

As someone who has already seen ufos and ships I know there isn't much mystery on seing them, I mean, It is a spaceship, period! I guess I've always believed in their existence, and more, not only believe, I always felt, knew, It was natural, that I have the calm to see things like that.

[Victoria Tintagel]

Hi Shadowstalker, thanks for your thoughts on Disclosure! Very good point! You really are a shadowstalker! The behavior (bee-hive-or) towards ET races, is something that concerns our autonomy, I think. The whole buzz on this subject feels to me like a big school of fish, quarreling about the possibility of life outside the water. (which is entirely different from being able to survive outside of it) I think it's the obstacle of denial (fear) that is keeping many people from stepping out of the box, change perspective, etc. Like fish, terribly afraid to leave the water as they know what happens to them when they are hooked by anglers (similar to abduction experience maybe?)

Accepting the existence of ET's equals stepping into our sovereignty as we are all one Big Family, I believe, in my not so humble opinion, including our own history of lives in the Universe :)
[} < ; The veil we wear on Earth, that makes us forget who we truly are and which I think is dissolving quickly now, creates separation. Separation from our intent and soul family, luring us into survival mode. Like we have done many times before, first we need to step in our own inner disclosure program to know who we really are.

During and/or after that, we can be at ease with whatever scaly rainbow colored spooky beady eyed multiped creatures. Our consciousness and compassionate love is the sword of Archangel Michael restraining the dragon in ourselves, which fiercely guards the finest gold that is our tremendous potential. Fighting and being frightened by ET-races is part of the old paradigm, I think. It's really a game as I see it, we choose fair play or foul play. I am the most lighthearted woman on Earth, at this moment, because I am in love.
It's wonderful and very very simple, really! :) Thanks for sharing this! Cheers, Tint.

[kaliestar]

Hi Tint!

Loved the "bee-hive-or" analogy!!!

It's funny you know, for the aliens have been here for zillions of years, they made us and now we have to recognize them..like a son must acknowledge a father...
This veil which we let fall on our conscience is like a sheet of dust that time only helped on our amnesia, we really forgot everything we already lived in the past.

But one day the suy shines again and our conscience gets tired of sleeping for so long...so here we go now.. and just about time.

There are so many wonderful things, habilities, events, people, places, civilizations from which we can and MUST learn from around this planet!

Each book i read, every person i know, only makes me see the massive amount of info we can access!!! It only takes wanting to do it.

Ets are as natural as flowers, as us, trees, fishes, anything.

So let's learn about ourselves and what mades us come to this point, so we can reaaaally make a better future. Knowing that we are the future.

[Victoria Tintagel]

Hi Avalonians, here's Terence McKenna The Gaian Mind lecture
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqQDP26c3uM

Belongs to this topic, I think, cheers, Tint.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Quote from Kaliestar "So let's learn about ourselves and what mades us come to this point, so we can reaaaally make a better future. Knowing that we are the future".
YES, Kaliestar, I am with you! Hug from Tint.[COLOR="red"]

[kaliestar]

:hug: =D

----------o

[shadowstalker]

@Tintageclave
Thank you for trying to put the thread back on track, your awesome.
And thank you for truly understanding what I was getting at..
I myself am very happy with any kind of dis-closer, no matter which country comes from, Big or small.

I also think that most of the responses here prove my point of some form of denial still running thu our hearts and souls.
psychologically speaking it makes sense, even on this thread and many others.
I noticed that there was a lot of fear in some of these responses, a lot of it unspoken.

@Kaliestar
Welcome to the boards, and thank you for posting here first, Hugs

[Fredkc]

Waitasecond!
I am the most lighthearted woman on Earth, at this moment, because I am in love.
That changes everything!

Great news, Tint!
Fred

PS: welcome Kalistar :)

[Fredkc]

Ok, as threatened on another thread, I am posting what I typed, and a link to the thread about UFO quotes:

There are 3 pages (and counting) of statements from Air Force generals, CIA types, etc stretching back nearly 60 years, stating in no uncertain terms these critters are real. Each one is speaking either from their official position, or from experience gained in same.

All these people waiting for some kind of "official disclosure" might just benefit by defining what the hell it is they want. I mean, if 3+ pages of Gummint Employees saying "Yup!" isn't enough....

See this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?5895-Quotes-by-famous-people-re-UFO-s&p=54105).
Fred

[Ba-ba-Ra]

Without an actual event to refer to, the discussion is really impossible.

If some official disclosure should happen (and the only way I think it will ever come is in the form of some half-truth as damage control) then it would not be up to everyone's expectations. Therefore the discussion would still come back to what Cipher said above. And it would also be just as unresolvable as it stands now.

Sitting around, waiting for a nice Presidential fireside chat about the existence of ET, will not change what's real. Or to put it even more bluntly:
Even cattle trust the rancher because he bring or leads them to food.

I can't think how a government proclamation would explain what I have experienced, or help me understand what really occurred, or why.

And I still think if what you are really waiting for is a government 'confession' as to their involvement to date... well I certainly hope you have many hobbies to fill the time.
Fred

I most whole-heartedly agree. I am past the point where I trust anything that comes from governments. They always seem to have an agenda. For me personally, I have had experiences, so I need no convincing from anyone, nor do I feel I need to convince anyone.

However, I do feel that those who want to have a direct ET experience, should first ask themselves. Would I sit down at the table with a Muslim, a Jew, a Christian, a Negro, an Asian, etc.? Until we are ready to accept all we're aware of on this planet, what makes us think we will accept an alpha-centariun or whatever?

Perhaps disclosure is happening one person at a time as each is ready - and then one day critical mass will set in and we won't need to worry about government disclosure. Just a thought.

[kaliestar]

Thank you for the welcome, Shadowstalker and Fredkc!!!

I'll come back later and share more thoughts on the theme of the thread.

[Fredkc]

Perhaps disclosure is happening one person at a time as each is ready - and then one day critical mass will set in and we won't need to worry about government disclosure. Just a thought.
Bingo!

;) Fred

[Victoria Tintagel]

Quoting us, Fredkc: "Waitasecond! "I am the most lighthearted woman on Earth, at this moment, because I am in love".
"That changes everything!" Yes, thanks Fredkc!

To tell you the truth, hugsome Fredck, inviting love in my life and connecting from the inside out, made me find this great surprise, like lightning at a clear sky: a long lost heartcompanion! And I am not gonna tell you who it is...he is here among the Avalonian bee hive homes.....massive grin :):) Tint.

[Fredkc]

I would not presume to such nosyness. (much)

Enjoy,
Fred

[Beth]

I would not presume to such nosyness. (much)

Enjoy,
Fred

I would, SPILL THE BEANS TINT!!! :p

[Rhiannon]

i'm so happy for you tint! :cheer2:

and i'm with beth in this... who is the lucky man???

[Victoria Tintagel]

Just be patient my dearests, in due time I will reveal who this lucky man is.....promised! Honest! :) Tint.

[shiva777]

until humanity gets REAL about both the positive and negative ET agendas it may be best that dsiclosure doesn't happen...if ET disclosure comes through the government you can be sure that it will be used to furthur control and enslave humanity...our benevolent ET family are not "disclosing" in a big way because they KNOW that we are not yet ready,,,if we were they would show up so there could be no denying them

[kaliestar]

Hi everybody,

shiva, agree with you and say one more thing: the aliens federated to the Galactic Confederation have a policy NOT to interfere on civilizations growth and evolution. So, I've already lost my patience on people close to me saying 'hey, what are they waiting for? they made us! it's all their fault!' NO!!!!! It's NOT their fault, it's OURS...the world is the way it is because of what WE did and we didn't.

BUT, the world isn't full garbage, as crazy as it may feel, I never gave up hope, simply cause if there was no way out we wouldn't be here, that's real obvious to me.

And... the ets can and are already helping us moving on. The confederated ones, course.

We don't need a disclosure cause it's already there..everything!

I think we're only feeding a childish attitude waiting for our presidents to say "the truth". haha...c'mon guys... we know the truth already. We don't need any official statement.

What we do need is clarification on secret government activities, mind control, supersoldiers training, violation of human rights, and more, human LIVES, violation of our planet nature as well as our own nature...

So let's go after the answers we need, the rights we have.

[kaliestar]

shiva, are we real about the positive and negative on US? for sure??

must start it on us first.