Explosions at Boston marathon - split thread [Archive] - The Project Avalon Community Forum

Jeffrey

18th April 2013, 14:28

[ Mod-edit: The first 25 posts in this thread began life as posts on one of the following two threads: Possible Boston Marathon Bombing Cover-Up Scenario (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?58304-Possible-Boston-Marathon-Bombing-Cover-Up-Scenario)
Explosions at Boston marathon (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?58170-Explosions-at-Boston-marathon)

These posts became more involved with negative or defensive comments amongst themselves than with commentary on the events at the Boston marathon. The split was not a clean one. Some excellent analysis appears below. But hopefully this split will improve the quality of the two threads above.

- Paul. ]

===

I am not saying noone got hurt. But there is something very wrong with all this.

CBqhfRY99OE

Watch the cowboy and the guy in the jeans and the hoodie in the different pics among other things. Amazing how the injured move around and change so much isn't it? Why did they have a fence and metal staging set up against the road with signage covering it? Between that and the flags, how could anyone standing in that zone even see anything? Or was it meant for people not to see them?

As for the bloodless double amputee, it is faked and clearly someone faked it for a reason. I have tracked and tracked him...he is not on any video - he just appears in photos.
21183

This is not real.

There was little thought applied in the "analysis" of the video. The location of smoke isn't confined to the small area where the actual blast occurred. It is reasonable to think that a piece of the bomb, a piece of the bag it was in, or a piece of something that was near to it got flung a few feet away and it was smoking. I mean, a bomb went off.

The blood spatter doesn't add up? Really? What spatter? People had there limbs blown off and they are bleeding out where they got flung to from the blast or where they managed to crawl to before they realized they were missing a leg (or a piece of their intestines were hanging outside of their body). They are in shock.

You've tracked the double amputee, and you couldn't find him? That's your evidence? I have to be candid, I don't trust your judgement.

Very weak arguments, and very weak "investigative" work going on here. Just a whole lotta poor speculation. This is Avalon, I thought we were better than this.

Step it up.

Dennis Leahy

19th April 2013, 05:59

...Just like the events of 9/11 were "allowed" to take place by ignoring the files supporting the evidence of high-jackers training to fly planes into buildings. Prior knowledge: negligence, incompetence, complicity? I don't know.

Why should the gov't avert a crisis, when it can be used to their advantage somehow, to further their agenda?

In these kinds of cases, there's a fine line between incompetence and complicity.

...
Hi Vivek,

That was either just a really bad example, or you lost your conspiracy theory merit badge if you believe what you wrote. Not to go too far into 9/11, but 3 buildings were pre-wired for destruction, a major haul of gold was stolen, a missile or bomb in the Pentagon, NORAD paralyzed, and half a dozen military drills going on (and the most difficult one to come to grips with - video fakery - no jets, just bombs) ... says with utter certainty that LIHOP (let it happen on purpose) is utterly absurd.

The crew in Boston with the khaki pants and shoes and black jackets almost ALL have backpacks. Huge, bulging backpacks - much bigger than a daypack.That's not likely their picnic baskets. I have NEVER seen a security guy with a backpack, and theses guys almost ALL have backpacks. These are NOT normal security guys. With so many similar-looking backpacks, they were all covering for others that has nasty things in backpacks. The track coach from Mobile said they announced it was a drill, and [B]not to worry about the guys with backpacks (or is that one a rumor - I thought I actually heard the coach say that in the interview.)

Everyone with khaki pants and shoes and black jackets (most with backpacks) was in on it. Misdirection in some cases, but supporting the event. I would say there is a possibility that some of those guys (especially the ones that were most obviously acting like security), may have indeed been hired security forces, unaware of why they were told to walk around with backpacks while they were working the event. But whoever HANDED OUT all the backpacks certainly knew there would be bombs in backpacks and obfuscated the scene as much as possible. Also, the crowd members would be less suspicious if they saw 20 guys with backpacks - if they just saw 1 or 2, they would stick out more. So, the multiple backpacks "conditioned" the crowd not to be concerned about backpacks.

I am not 100% sure of this but, how many men with khaki pants and shoes and black jackets (with or without backpacks) were injured in the blasts? None. They all cleared-out in advance of the explosions, though they had been in that area, "observing." Does it make sense that they would all be as lucky as Lucky Larry Silverstein and just happen to all clear out of that blast area before the blasts?

Once the explosions happened, look at the photos and see how many men with khaki pants and shoes and black jackets you find (with or without backpacks) aiding the wounded, or even just observing the people. None. They all fled the scene. Would real security guys flee the scene?

Dennis

Jeffrey

19th April 2013, 06:14

Ha! Considering the 9/11 comment, it was made to further a point. Two planes struck the WTC, and certain documents came to light that envisioned that scenario prior to the attacks. I've seen no conclusive evidence that a plane hit the Pentagon.

The point of the comment was to illustrate the prospect of prior knowledge. I may go back and clean it up, but first I'm going to bed good sir.

Goodnight.

PS - I'm very aware of the rigged explosive/controlled demolition theory. It is backed by strong evidence.

witchy1

19th April 2013, 08:58

Jeffrey

20th April 2013, 21:29

You've tracked the double amputee, and you couldn't find him? That's your evidence? I have to be candid, I don't trust your judgement.
Very weak arguments, and very weak "investigative" work going on here. Just a whole lotta poor speculation. This is Avalon, I thought we were better than this.
Step it up.

I did not say I was providing "Evidence" Vivek and I dont care if you dont trust my judgement. At least be a little polite in your critisims and dont make personal attacks.
All I (and the rest of us) are doing is bringing information out to be discussed. I am not sure who you think you are to sit and cast judgement upon others. I find you comments vile and disrespectful. I thought better of you. You are on a conspiracy site...its what happens - get used to it.

By the way I am a RN - this is NOT blood nor is that a real traumatic amputation!

I've offended you? You think my comments are vile and disrespectful? It's shameful that you would try to throw the weight of such a respectable title (RN) behind such irresponsible assertions. I should get used to it? Hell no! I don't have to put up with such foolishness and I won't. This is my last post to you. After this I'm clicking the ignore button on your profile. So you're wrong there too, I don't have to get used to such idiocy. I can speak out against it, then ignore it. Bye.

Why don't you try and explain your theories to these people.

myfivKMhqyg

http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/s/s/20/media20/2013/Apr/15/LiveLeak-dot-com-93204a7060d8-slide_292101_2341257_free.jpg?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bad190494dded698f3&ec_rate=200

http://ww3.hdnux.com/photos/21/04/60/4475918/3/960x595.jpg

http://www.shkabaj.tk/news/photo/img/boston_016.jpg

http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/s/s/20/media20/2013/Apr/15/LiveLeak-dot-com-91e0ba61353c-slide_292101_2340778_free.jpg?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bad190494dded698f3&ec_rate=200

http://i.imgur.com/NDnRkbs.jpg

http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/s/s/20/media20/2013/Apr/15/LiveLeak-dot-com-7228a0f2248f-slide_292101_2340956_free.jpg?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bad190494dded698f3&ec_rate=200

http://forum.goregrish.com/attachments/1366074181296-jpg.114130/

http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/s/s/20/media20/2013/Apr/15/LiveLeak-dot-com-cf1655279b53-slide_292101_2340952_free.jpg?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bad190494dddd108ad&ec_rate=200

http://forum.goregrish.com/attachments/1366075368760-jpg.114132/

Mark (Star Mariner)

20th April 2013, 22:52

The above pictures are rather graphic. In fact very graphic, and large. I'm sure people would appreciate an advisory before scrolling down. I know I would have.

Thanks

Jeffrey

20th April 2013, 23:53

Great Video IMO Here it is

bjocGidSLJw

The man who made this video did zero research. He's speculating, that's it.

The younger brothers backpack wasn't black. Also, the Craft man he's singled out is still wearing his backpack after the blast and he's still at the scene.

This video is a joke. No offense.

gigha

21st April 2013, 01:00

The above pictures are rather graphic. In fact very graphic, and large. I'm sure people would appreciate an advisory before scrolling down. I know I would have.

Thanks

I also would have thought that just a warning of graphic content might of been in order. Not personally offended but i think that some on the forum are sensitive to such images.

gigha

ThePythonicCow

21st April 2013, 02:29

The man who made this video did zero research. He's speculating, that's it.

The younger brothers backpack wasn't black. Also, the Craft man he's singled out is still wearing his backpack after the blast and he's still at the scene.
You lost me there, Vivek.

I see research, I see images, I see the Craft man running out without his backpack, I see the patsy running out still with his backpack, I see a better match between the bomb destroyed backpack and the one the Craft guy was wearing, with the white square ... but you tell me there is zero research, just speculation, and its the wrong Craft guy.

On what basis do you make those assertions?

Jeffrey

21st April 2013, 02:32

ThePythonicCow

21st April 2013, 02:44

On the left, you can see what looks like the number eleven written in the white square, or some parallel stitching there. Yet, it's not on the square of the mangled bag.

That's not even the main, glaring inconsistency with the video though. See the right side of the photo? It's the same guy with the backpack and you can see the whitish square piece on the top of the backpack (it's either tape or it's some kind of fabric stitched on the handle). The image on the right was taken after the bomb went off.

While the mangled bag is laying near the aftermath of the explosion, this man still has his backpack.

...
As for the younger brother's backpack (the alleged suspect) -- it wasn't black. Not according to this image.

...
The man in the video claims that he's still wearing a backpack, which would have to be much darker than the one in the image above. It really looks like his elbow to me.

...
Okay, I've zoomed into this picture above on a large, high definition screen. What that man claims is the kid's backpack -- it isn't. It's definitely his elbow. These are my observations and they are objective.

...
In this case, he didn't do his research and he's recklessly speculating to support whatever scenario he wants to believe in.
Ok - I had not read this follow up post of yours when I made my previous post just above.

Whether the alleged kid running away after the bombing still has his backpack on or not, I can't tell from your image. Perhaps his elbow is hiding the backpack. Though I can see where you have good reason to figure it's just his elbow.

Whether the Craft guy was without a backpack briefly just after the bombing in the image of supposedly him running away, and he got another one, or whether these are different Craft guys, I don't know.

It still seems to me you're overstating your case when you accuse him of not doing his research and recklessly speculating :).

Jeffrey

21st April 2013, 03:01

Whether the Craft guy was without a backpack briefly just after the bombing in the image of supposedly him running away, and he got another one, or whether these are different Craft guys, I don't know.

Paul, this is the only image that I've found of him without his backpack. It's after both explosions.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Bqd6d0hVyfs/UXDHbQe_IvI/AAAAAAAAArI/hIVyPnLr8WU/s1600/craft3+(550+x+486).jpg

He could have not had it for any number of reasons, but it doesn't matter. He had his backpack on after both explosions happened. A little while later, he doesn't have one. It's not important anymore considering the "proof" that YouTube user was trying to pass off. Where'd his backpack go? It's anyones guess, but it wasn't involved in any bombing.

It still seems to me you're overstating your case when you accuse him of not doing his research and recklessly speculating :).

I guess we have different perspectives on what research entails. That's alright, but I hold myself to higher investigative standards than the person who published that video.

ThePythonicCow

21st April 2013, 03:08

He could have not had it for any number of reasons, but it doesn't matter. He had his backpack on after both explosions happened. A little while later, he doesn't have one. It's not important anymore considering the "proof" that YouTube user was trying to pass off. Where'd his backpack go? It's anyones guess, but it wasn't involved in any bombing.
I have not done the work to determine when and in what sequence these various images of this Craft man were taken.

I take it from what you say that you have done that work, and the one image of him without a backpack occurs after some other image of him still having the backpack after the two bombings?

How did you determine this sequence (or perhaps that's above and I missed it) ?

It still seems to me you're overstating your case when you accuse him of not doing his research and recklessly speculating :).

I guess we have different perspectives on what research entails. That's alright, but I hold myself to higher investigative standards than the person who published that video.
Higher standards are good.

That doesn't mean the other guy is all reckless speculation with no standards and no research :).

Sometimes we just notice different things, and overlook different things.

Jeffrey

21st April 2013, 03:16

ThePythonicCow

21st April 2013, 03:27

Ah - one more thing - we have to be careful of basing conclusions on a few images uploaded to Youtube.

Paul, I have to be completely honest here. How come you didn't point this out before my criticism of the man's video? You were saying you saw the research and the images in the video. You were wondering why I said his analysis was bogus. You hinted towards a credence of the man's claims. No mention of doctored photos.
I had had that concern (of doctored photos) a few times in the last few days, and just happened to recall it again, when I was near my keyboard.

You are correct that the sequencing of my replies is suspect. First I try to make a case based on uploaded images, then when you make an alternative case also based on uploaded images, I say "oh - by the way - uploaded images are all suspect!"

I will continue to play both sides of the street in regards to uploaded images ... keeping in mind that the bastards (whoever they are) can fake us out with them, and keeping in mind that they can be a key mechanism for exposing what really happened.

Anchor

21st April 2013, 05:40

Ah - one more thing - we have to be careful of basing conclusions on a few images uploaded to Youtube.

We know (those of us who have studied the JFK assassination, in particular) that doctoring what images the public sees was routine business, even back a half century ago now.

How trivial it would be to doctor up a few videos and upload them to Youtube as if from some random bystanders iPhone, showing ... damn near anything they wanted to show.

I would not convict any of the people that any of us has suspected of so much as a parking ticket based on these videos, if I were on the jury. The chain of custody of evidence, and the trustworthiness and competence of each person in that chain, is critical. There is no such chain for what we have been viewing above.

Paul, I have to be completely honest here. How come you didn't point this out before my criticism of the man's video? You were saying you saw the research and the images in the video. You were wondering why I said his analysis was bogus. You hinted towards a credence of the man's claims. No mention of doctored photos.

Then, after I laid out my criticism -- step by step -- you decided to bring to our attention the possibility of the photos being doctored?

Sure, it's good to keep in mind. Although your timing would indicate a wariness of my analysis in favor of propping up the conclusions of the man's video regardless of the photographic evidence and the obvious logical flaws.

What is this about? What we want to believe? Are we just going to selectively explain away logic and reason when it's convenient?

Vivek,

Its not a competition. No one is trying to bait you.

You are doing a sterling job - you have obviously put in a lot of time to what you are doing, and its all well presented.

Images are illusion. Unless we know that there has been no tampering with them, we dont know that they accurately capture the optical reality of the situation at that point in time. People have even been arguing over the color of blood.

The best that can be done is identify inconsistencies.

My suspicion is that to cover up the cover up a lot of disinformation has been released.

Anyway - you have a lot of silent readers, and a lot of respect (from me anyway). Paul is doing equally well with the counterpoints and they have been good to read as well.

A..

Jeffrey

21st April 2013, 20:56

Now I know your not reading my posts carefully. I know your not going through the links. I know your not fact checking yourself. I've seen the other mindless post you've recently made in the other thread -- it's pure speculation. You've done no research at all. Did you bother to search for pictures of Jeff Bauman when he had his legs? Did you notice that Carlos was holding what looked to be a major blood vessel? Did you even know his name was Carlos? Do you have any idea what I'm talking about? I could go on, but the point is you've chosen the path of least resistance when it comes to researching your speculations before you post them. It's irresponsible. It's just going to add to the hock of confusion and fuel speculation. I haven't seen you bring anything viable to the table other than hearsay. There's a better outlet for nonsensical theories, maybe try something like GLP. Avalon isn't the place for it. Heck, maybe I'm in the wrong place.

You're cutting all kinds of corners in your head. You haven't considered lending credence to any other alternatives even though they are more reasonable than the dribble you've managed to resolve for yourself. This isn't a debate, you've brought nothing to the table but speculation and you've still failed to properly address my points.

The remnants of the black backpack that carried the bomb -- many are saying it matches the operative's bag with the white square. It doesn't. Any other operative's backpacks in the pictures are still being worn after the explosion. You've continued to ignore that as well because it doesn't fit in whatever deluded fantasy you've chosen to live in. I've already laid out an analysis of this point. You've either chosen to ignore it or you completely missed it. Either case is likely considering that you've demonstrated an inability to think critically, be observant, investigate, and use reason. It's a package. Believe what you want to. Your facilities for discernment are stagnating. I'm sure your a good person, good character, deep heart. Yet, I can't be around such vacuousness. I don't have the patience and I've got too much to learn.

It ain't gonna be from you. I'm done.

You're what I call a Saint Maker. It's too bad I failed this test, maybe next time.

Peace. Good luck with life.

Poly Hedra

21st April 2013, 21:24

Now I know your not reading my posts carefully. I know your not going through the links. I know your not fact checking yourself. I've seen the other mindless post you've recently made in the other thread --

-----

Your facilities for discernment are stagnating. I'm sure your a good person, good character, deep heart. Yet, I can't be around such vacuousness.

Getting a bit insulting and personal don't ya think?
Chill. There is no place for it here.

Dennis Leahy

21st April 2013, 21:43

You have supplied no data, only your speculation. You believe your theories. You are sure you are correct so your guesses should be considered as data? What DATA have you supplied? If the "data" is what is "probably" in the backpacks, I have already said it doesn't matter. No one could approach a live bomb with whatever would fit in one of those backpacks. Now, THAT is data.

Don't attack me personally, attack my theories. If you let fly with emotion, logic will get overruled.
"The remnants of the black backpack that carried the bomb -- many are saying it matches the operative's bag with the white square. It doesn't. Any other operative's backpacks in the pictures are still being worn after the explosion. You've continued to ignore that as well because it doesn't fit in whatever deluded fantasy you've chosen to live in."Pay attention: I'm not sure what "many are saying", but I said, and I'll repeat, I don't think the Craft/CST guys did anything. They were stagehands. Stooges. And they probably did not know it. I don't think one of their backpacks blew up (and I never said it did.) I think they were contingency-patsies. I think whoever ordered those guys to wear those backpacks knew in advance that a backpack that looks like theirs would be the bomb backpack. I do believe/speculate/theorize that whoever ordered the security/surveillance guys to wear those black backpacks is a co-conspirator. I could be wrong, but there are too many coincidences. Are you now saying you don't think their backpacks even looks like the bomb backpack?

From the images shown of the 2 brothers and their backpacks, neither of the brothers' backpacks matches the bomb backpack in color.

Simple question: other than the fact that you have theorized that there is a cover-up of ineptitude (that there was a bomb threat and someone who should have called off the race did not), do you pretty much agree with the official narrative?

Dennis

Jeffrey

21st April 2013, 21:50

Dennis Leahy

21st April 2013, 22:16

Getting a bit insulting and personal don't ya think?
Chill. There is no place for it here.

Yes, it was a bit personal. I reacted. I've responded, responded, responded, and then I reacted. I could've just ignored it and moved on, but I had to get in the last word and take the last stab. Very immature. I know, but I chose to do it anyways because I felt like it had to be said. It was selfish of me. I may feel sorry about it later, but I don't right now. He's now on my ignore list because I can't handle my own emotions.

:)

I do apologize though, you're right, there is no place for it here.

:focus:
Well, that's an interesting way to "win" an argument. Ignore their actual argument. Insult them. Then claim you just couldn't help yourself. Finally, put the one person who challenged your theory on "ignore" and pretend you won the argument.

Well, I guess that's it. Checkmate. Game, set, and match to Vivek. The official narrative is 100% correct and honest, the only discrepancy is that someone should have taken a bomb threat more seriously and should have called off the race.

Guess I can get back to the Gilligan's Island sitcom television marathon. Where did I put that remote control...

Dennis

Jeffrey

22nd April 2013, 03:11

I can appreciate, Vivek, that you are convinced that this event is not some grand conspiratorial plot, but rather closer to what is portrayed in the news.

I never said there wasn't a conspiracy, I've pointed out the flaws in peoples judgements who have leapt to conclusions.

However let's please stick to the topic, without casting dispersions on those who find evidence of larger conspiracies here. Those who disagree with you are not necessarily insane, or making weak, illogical, and poorly thought-out speculation without evidence.

I'm on the topic Paul. Don't you dare try to censor me for bringing in a proper analysis of what you think is evidence. I've pointed out the weaknesses in the evidence. It's perfectly on topic. Just because it goes against what you want to believe doesn't mean you can try to steer me away from being reasonable, especially since you're a moderator.

It is vital that we realize that we are not the enemy, that we don't fall into infighting amongst ourselves. Give the benefit of the doubt to the rest of us, at least until we clearly demonstrate that we have not earned such.

The resulting controversy, confusion and conflict amongst the rest of us is one of the intended results of such operations.

Once again, the few who have a clue are divided from the sheeple.

Why would anybody even have to consider trying to confuse you all? Your doing a fine job of twisting the story, ignoring logic, and bending evidence to fit your beliefs. You've confused everything enough already. Nobody had to help you, you're doing it to yourself.

I'm not going to give anybody the benefit of the doubt. Most of the people I've engaged have demonstrated that they haven't earned it. People are continually reposting utter nonsense. I've pointed it out already with clear analysis, and I'll continue to do so whether you like it or not.

If you deny me that, I'm gone. What's the point? This is approaching cult-like insanity here. Really. This is what herd mentality looks like. Right here, we are witnessing it.

ThePythonicCow

22nd April 2013, 03:33

I can appreciate, Vivek, that you are convinced that this event is not some grand conspiratorial plot, but rather closer to what is portrayed in the news.

I never said there wasn't a conspiracy, I've pointed out the flaws in peoples judgements who have leapt to conclusions.
I said grand conspiracy. I didn't say you said there was no conspiracy. You did say there was a minor conspiracy of officials covering their tracks and failed decisions.

However let's please stick to the topic, without casting dispersions on those who find evidence of larger conspiracies here. Those who disagree with you are not necessarily insane, or making weak, illogical, and poorly thought-out speculation without evidence.

I can appreciate, Vivek, that you are convinced that this event is not some grand conspiratorial plot, but rather closer to what is portrayed in the news.
I'm on the topic Paul. Don't you dare try to censor me for bringing in a proper analysis of what you think is evidence. I've pointed out the weaknesses in the evidence. It's perfectly on topic. Just because it goes against what you want to believe doesn't mean you can try to steer me away from being reasonable, especially since you're a moderator.
I have not censored you. And I am not criticizing you for analysis efforts; I'm just disagreeing with your conclusions.

I am criticizing you for repeatedly putting pejorative labels on the equally well intended analysis of others. You have called those disagreeing with you " insane" and accused them of "making weak, illogical, and poorly thought-out speculation without evidence."

Why would anybody even have to consider trying to confuse you all? Your doing a fine job of twisting the story, ignoring logic, and bending evidence to fit your beliefs. You've confused everything enough already. Nobody had to help you, you're doing it to yourself.

I'm not going to give anybody the benefit of the doubt. Most of the people I've engaged have demonstrated that they haven't earned it. People are continually reposting utter nonsense. I've pointed it out already with clear analysis, and I'll continue to do so whether you like it or not.

If you deny me that, I'm gone. What's the point? This is approaching cult-like insanity here. Really. This is what herd mentality looks like. Right here, we are witnessing it.
And you continue to do so.

In a few minutes, I will be splitting off this post, and some of those leading up to it, into a separate thread.

This is an important topic, as I am sure most of us agree, and I would rather not have the main thread discussing the Boston marathon bombings confused with debates between members over whether the efforts of other members are weak, illogical, unfounded, cult-like insanity.

Jeffrey

22nd April 2013, 03:47

Okay. Really, I'm done. I've tried to leave twice already. Once I came back on my own accord. The second time I was reeled back in. Third times a charm.

Close my account. I've learned my last lesson that I'm going to learn here. It's one I never saw coming, but here it is. I can't ignore it and I can't waste any more time here.

Those of you who have my email, we'll keep in touch.

This is the best video evidence of what's happened in this thread/forum and in general surrounding this event: http://www.videobash.com/video_show/idiocracy-justice-55407

I'll leave you guys to it, don't let me get in your way.

Out of everything, this is probably one of the most important threads on the forum: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?45758-Theories-of-the-Deep-Understanding-of-Things

Followed by these:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54217-Their-Mind-and-the-Emotional-Matrix-that-we-create-with-it.&highlight=emotional+matrix

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47110-Self-Deception-and-Other-Pitfalls-for-the-Seeker

There you go, top three threads.

Peace.

gripreaper

22nd April 2013, 03:58

Close my account. I've learned my last lesson that I'm going to learn here. It's one I never saw coming, but here it is. I can't ignore it and I can't waste any more time here.

What is the lesson? I've been loosely following this thread because it is representative of an attempt by the elite power mongers to keep us within a narrow meme of consciousness, by continuing to instigate and perpetrate such baser terrestrial emotions to keep us in the polarized states of fear, anger and grief.

They feed off of it, and they don't want us to awaken. Notice how the "events" are escalating, both in frequency, boldness and arrogance? It's like they are saying: We control the matrix, you are all slaves, and there is nothing you can do about it.

What "we" can do about it, is not feed the memes. The content of this thread could have been handled in four or five posts. What we know, is the same thing we knew after Aurora, the same thing we knew after Sandy Hoax, and it is the same thing we know now.

Please Vivek, if you would be so kind and tell us what you learned about human nature and the Avalon experience before you sign off for good, that would be appreciated from us who respect you, honor your sovereignty and individuality, your right to free expression, and your wisdom.

Abhaya

22nd April 2013, 04:44

Vivek. Might I say to just take a breather. We are all in this together exploring every angle of this thing. I can understand frustration when u feel u have covered something and then you see it pop up again. But don't let it get to you. I for one would appreciate your continued input on this thread.... Lets not let anger pride and frustration get the best of us. This is an issue for us all. That is not a slight at u trust me.

Jeffrey

22nd April 2013, 05:12

This whole thing is madness.

Great selection of posts here Paul. Every post in here deserved to be where it was. It didn't need it's own thread, but if you want to pull it out of context fine. Whatever is convenient. Really, stellar job. What you have done here is a disservice to integrity, reason, logic (Paul, I'm talking to you sir).

I'm really sorry if I offended anybody.

You all need to step it up though. Do you want to be herded? Do you want to be tricked? Do you want to be falsely led? I don't give a damn whether you agree with me or not. I'm not trying to agree with anybody. I'm looking at the evidence. Let's just all agree that it was all staged and these people were actors. Then we can go out and find evidence to bend to our beliefs.

This is just ridiculous. I am completely disillusioned with this place now.

You can mangle what I've said now however you like. Make it about you. Make it about me. Whatever helps you feel better. You know who I'm talking to.

I have a very, very long fuse. It's evident throughout my posts over the last two years. My friends and family will say the same thing. So having said that, I am angry, and appalled to be honest. For good reason.

Bye.

Limor Wolf

22nd April 2013, 06:01

Hi Vivek,

I am probably not the person you will listen to, but I will have my shot. There are quite profound things going on in the world today as well as in our own personal lives. We knew that it would come, we knew that the water will become rough and the rowing will be a little harder.
I had the passing thought to leave Avalon this week, It was in one of the threads where I felt a red line was crossed and did not recieve what I felt was the proper reference. I held my horses, because I knew there is something here in Avalon that is important, I am not talking about the forum and discussions per se, I am talking about the energy formed here and some grid that is being connected.
In the past there were attampts to stir the pot, some of it is done privetly on some people in such a subtle way that not everyone could see or hear, attempts such as this are made even now as we speak. You have a valuable contribution here, Vivek, this is not an ego stroke, but an energetic thing, and we do come to learn a little about each other and appreciate one another's attributes.
There are those who will be satisfied on the move you want to take, and there are those of us here that will not be happy, this is up to you of course, but I would like to think that the Avalon 'idea' and people is more important to you than 'they' are, even if you can't see that there are 'they' and you think that this is all simply about a discussion.

With care ~

Limor

EYES WIDE OPEN

22nd April 2013, 12:07

Ah - one more thing - we have to be careful of basing conclusions on a few images uploaded to Youtube.

We know (those of us who have studied the JFK assassination, in particular) that doctoring what images the public sees was routine business, even back a half century ago now.

How trivial it would be to doctor up a few videos and upload them to Youtube as if from some random bystanders iPhone, showing ... damn near anything they wanted to show.

I would not convict any of the people that any of us has suspected of so much as a parking ticket based on these videos, if I were on the jury. The chain of custody of evidence, and the trustworthiness and competence of each person in that chain, is critical. There is no such chain for what we have been viewing above.

Paul, I have to be completely honest here. How come you didn't point this out before my criticism of the man's video? You were saying you saw the research and the images in the video. You were wondering why I said his analysis was bogus. You hinted towards a credence of the man's claims. No mention of doctored photos.

Then, after I laid out my criticism -- step by step -- you decided to bring to our attention the possibility of the photos being doctored?

Sure, it's good to keep in mind. Although your timing would indicate a wariness of my analysis in favor of propping up the conclusions of the man's video regardless of the photographic evidence and the obvious logical flaws.

What is this about? What we want to believe? Are we just going to selectively explain away logic and reason when it's convenient?

I too noticed this with some amusement. However, I 100% agree that there were zero actors present (at the moment) and 70/30 on false flag in general.

EYES WIDE OPEN

22nd April 2013, 12:25

Vivek.
I think the fact that you put research first is fantastic.
Many are far too quick to jump to conclusions and some seem desperate and almost want it to be a false flag.
However.....
Please take my advice.
I have been in your position twice before and was banned as a result of being too agresive and getting too personal in threads.
I learned my lesson.
Whilst I agree that posts like the ones in this thread that are angry, forceful and personal should indeed be split from the main thread, I do not agree that posts that differ in opinion from each other should be split as well.
It does seem to me there is a mixture of both in this thread.
Posts that disagree with Paul and others that are indeed on topic and posts that are disruptive and personal are two different things.
These two things are not the same and the mods should differentiate between the two IMO.
Because of this, important aspects of the debate are lost along the way.
It is possible to disagree without getting so angry about it.
As I said before and Paul will attest to, I learnt the heard way and now try to phrase my arguments in a much more friendly and respectful manner.
I too am a passionate person and sometimes that passions spills out in the wrong way but I have learnt to check myself.
To finish, I will just say I see myself in you Vivek and can see where your passion has led you astray and resulted in things getting personal.
However, I do agree that many of your points regarding evidence are on topic and splitting them has made it look like the mods are trying to control the main debate to favour a certain point of view. The splitting of threads is to maintain forum harmony but I think on this occasion some of your comments could be put back into the main thread whilst leaving the more personal ones out.

EYES WIDE OPEN

22nd April 2013, 12:33

Don't attack me personally, attack my theories.

This is the key.

crosby

22nd April 2013, 13:53

Vivek, please reconsider. you are an important member of Avalon. you have raised the bar on intelligence here and you are needed to keep it where it belongs. i know that i have learned so much by reading your threads and you have helped me to see what i have on occasion blindly set aside. contention exists so that we can learn how to rise above it. take a break if you need to but don't leave. everyone has a position on this latest event, that's okay. everyday more and more information is coming out that will either support or denounce certain avenues in these positions. stick with it, reconsider.......
warmest regards, corson

CdnSirian

22nd April 2013, 13:59

Hello Vivek. You leave the forum. Who benefits?

You may, temporarily, as you walk away from your frustration.

The unseen influence, of which volumes have been discussed on PA, is the element that benefits.

Please spit out the bait. Limor has made a good statement - re the energy.

Regardless, much thanks for your contributions.

Flash

22nd April 2013, 14:48

Vivek listen to mother here again please,

The advantage of age is that we have learned quite a few things about human behaviors:

1. The bell curve works for human rational intelligence. When you end up at either end, not many people can follow you, and you Vivek, you are at the end of the right hand side.

2. The bell curve works for human emotional intelligence. When you end up at either end, not many people can follow you (as for the left handside, most people in the middle do not even believe that psychopaths truly exist and that we have to be extremely intolerant facing their behavior). At the other hand of the curve, the right hand side, we become much more sensitive than the average and may be hurt easily, by the middle unconscious ones, worst from the psychos. And we can't expect that they will understand, the emotional abilities being average on average.

3. This means that we are quite lonely most of the time. The consequence is to have a few friends that are following us on both levels. They are few in between.

4. We may decide to withdraw from situation with average folks (and should withdraw from situation with pschopaths). However, if we do this, we have to do it constantly most of our life. Not very interesting.

5. We may decide to be ourselves fully and be rejected, because what is different is usually rejected by the average folk. Even the greatest good is rejected because of its difference. Army has not released the info on Aliens precisely because of this average folk behavior, in part, the other part being the will to keep the power. Or, we may decide to use patience and see how we can impact this world. From my experience, it takes about ten years of relentless nail hammering to see the foundation of the house being built. Despite earthquakes, unstable land, storms, hurricanes, etc (all what PTB throws at us such as chemtrails and Haarp). Ten years. TEN YEARS AND THE IMPACT SHOWS UP, GARANTEED. At twenty five, our horizons are not that large usually and we want results now.

6. I personally decided on patience, for my own evolution (patience with myself first and others) and for the impact I may have as well, trying to make it positive for others in the long run (could look negative in the short run).

7. I also decided that there was a bell curve, even if I wanted everybody and everything equal from the start, it is in the overall scheme of things within centuries or milleniums in the greater universe, but it is not in my 3D - 80 years lifespan. So I admitted that sometimes others are much slower than I am, on the emotional intelligence as well as on the rational intelligence, and that sometimes others are faster than I am (whom you are compared with me Vivek). When it is the former, I used patience and love, when it is the latter, I work on my ego - natural tendencies is to destroy what one does not understand by keeping the ego intact, and I use love as well. Lots of people have more problems to work on their ego than anything else.

5. Therefore, when I am with people with less abilities, I used patience knowing very well that they are working on their ego as well if they wish to accept me and that this is a very tough thing to do. Therefore, I try to make it as easy as possible for them by going slow and being kind and loving, knowing that at some point they will work it through in the greater scheme. When I am with people with more abilities than mine, I work on my ego first an then I truly enjoy the learning experience (which I do with you).

So, if you decide to stay, these are part of the game, from my point of view. And it is fine.

Since I am completely off topic, I must say that I read your analysis, they are thorough and sound. I would easily go your way. The only reason I did not get into that thread previously is that I got into the other thread, and got blasted really, I did not have the taste to live the experience once again.

But I did not quite the forum for this, I understood why others see it a different way. The other thing is that here is a CONSPIRACY forum, of the gentler kind, but still conspiracy. I do expect people to see conspiracies everywhere, even if it is not logical (like going to church for me).

Now for my thinking: conspiracy or not, those events will be used to the advantages of governing bodies, in order to promote given agendas such as war and arm reduction.

OK Vivek, mom's speech is over.

All my love and appreciation to you

Flash