Have some conspiracy theorists gone too far.....

[AMystic3434]

I like a good conspiracy and am open minded to the fact that there is more to the story than what we are being told. But it really bothers me when people put up these conspiracy you tube videos that are just so stupid.

So now the conspiracy on the Boston bombing is that no one was really injured and that they were all actors. This is the biggest bunch of BS ive heard in a long time. I just dont believe it, how can people live with themself and spread such nonsense. These are the people that give the good conspiracy theorists a bad name. Its the same when people were saying that airplanes really didnt hit the WTC buildings. How gulible can people really be. But more importantly, how shameful is it to spread such BS.

Despite such nonsense by these conspiracy theorists. I still believe that we dont have the full story. I guess you just have to be careful what you decide to let in. And dont forget to think about things before you believe them. A little logic goes a long way.

[sigma6]

You sound like you are trying to misdirect the real threads with a non-sequitur argument... very few people have said no one was injured, in fact it is stock and trade to make sure a number of innocents get hurt in every faked up scenario. I would go back and review the hundreds of videos that have been posted... rather odd response when there are a hundreds of videos describing the staged events, clairvoyant bomb drill before the events occurred, brothers trying to give up and saying they didn't do it, false media press against family, amputee actors, but you're concerned that some think maybe no one was injured??? if there really are a few that have said that maybe they are just laying a false trail so that someone can come along and create a false argument... all designed to distract focus from the main issue...

Isn't this the same anti-propaganda argument that failed miserably to distract the Sandyhook whistleblowers... (ouch, )

[Prodigal Son]

So now the conspiracy on the Boston bombing is that no one was really injured and that they were all actors. This is the biggest bunch of BS ive heard in a long time. I just dont believe it, how can people live with themself and spread such nonsense. These are the people that give the good conspiracy theorists a bad name. Its the same when people were saying that airplanes really didnt hit the WTC buildings. How gulible can people really be. But more importantly, how shameful is it to spread such BS.

Well, I'm one of those BS spreaders. If it is proven to me that at least SOME of the injuries were faked, then how do I determine which ones are real? Is it not prudent to question ALL the injuries and alleged deaths once it is established that there was fakery going on?

As for the planes that allegedly hit the towers, if there was no plane at the Pentagon and no plane in that ridiculous hole in Shanksville, wouldn't I be stupid to automatically assume that whatever hit the twin towers were 757's? Especially when hollow aluminum absolutely cannot cut through thick steel beams no matter what speed it is traveling? Especially when I saw no wake vortices and several other anomalies that would rule out the possibility of 757's being involved? Especially when it was proven beyond a doubt that the media inserted the "plane" that hit the south tower?

How do you really know what is BS and what is not?

No matter what conclusions they reach, everyone questioning the official story is really on the same team. Do you think you are helping the cause for truth by causing division among the truth-seekers?

[naste.de.lumina]

Their greatest concern are the conspiracy theories go too far.
The truth is one, whatever name you want to give her.
You have government Blowing up your own people as well as other people, intentionally obscure and petty purposes, does not seem to bother you as much as an error of judgment of a reasonably valid analysis.
No, not conspiracy theories.
Are real freaks practices committed intentionally, willful, premeditated.
Governments would not have a long time gone too far in their atrocities, would be the right question.
peace.

[AMystic3434]

how can you say that 2 airplanes didnt hit the WTC. It was witnesses by hundreds of people. The media didnt insert the plane that hit the south tower an airplane really hit it. As far as the pentagon goes. Im not sure if an airplane really hit the pentagon, even though they say that im still not convinced. So you saying there were faked injuries at the Boston bombing. That is BS why would they even need fake injuries when they have a real bomb going off. That would mean that the medical team was in on it. You dont see any medical personal coming forward saying that some of the injuries were fake.

All im saying is that be careful what you watch on you tube and believe. Its like when in the movie the Matrix when Neo asks if you die in the matrix do you die in real life and Morphius says yes the mind makes it real. Well that is what happens....The mind makes it real.

[andrewgreen]

So now the conspiracy on the Boston bombing is that no one was really injured and that they were all actors. This is the biggest bunch of BS ive heard in a long time. I just dont believe it, how can people live with themself and spread such nonsense. These are the people that give the good conspiracy theorists a bad name. Its the same when people were saying that airplanes really didnt hit the WTC buildings. How gulible can people really be. But more importantly, how shameful is it to spread such BS.

Well, I'm one of those BS spreaders. If it is proven to me that at least SOME of the injuries were faked, then how do I determine which ones are real? Is it not prudent to question ALL the injuries and alleged deaths once it is established that there was fakery going on?

As for the planes that allegedly hit the towers, if there was no plane at the Pentagon and no plane in that ridiculous hole in Shanksville, wouldn't I be stupid to automatically assume that whatever hit the twin towers were 757's? Especially when hollow aluminum absolutely cannot cut through thick steel beams no matter what speed it is traveling? Especially when I saw no wake vortices and several other anomalies that would rule out the possibility of 757's being involved? Especially when it was proven beyond a doubt that the media inserted the "plane" that hit the south tower?

How do you really know what is BS and what is not?

No matter what conclusions they reach, everyone questioning the official story is really on the same team. Do you think you are helping the cause for truth by causing division among the truth-seekers?
Agree but agencies do intentionally plant ridiculous stories and people embellish things to make more money. Alternative media is like every other form of life you create your own reality and one man's bulls **** is another's truth. Stereo typing definitely isn't helpful though.

[Prodigal Son]

how can you say that 2 airplanes didnt hit the WTC. It was witnesses by hundreds of people. The media didnt insert the plane that hit the south tower an airplane really hit it. As far as the pentagon goes. Im not sure if an airplane really hit the pentagon, even though they say that im still not convinced. I would suggest that you do a little more research on 911. I'm talking about real footage that was aired on TV that was later edited and changed. There is no disputing this. Once you see it you will know what I am talking about. I'm just too tired to post all these videos again. They are all here. Search on this site or search google. Look into the lack of wake vortices. You must adhere to the laws of physics. Don't let them bend your mind.

[AMystic3434]

You cant dispute amature home video that clearly shows that 2 airplanes hit the WTC. No doubt, the conspiracy theorists that say this didnt happen are tricking people for there own personal agenda.

[Chester]

Within the various defined realms of form, you have opposites involved in a dance that balances that realm. In instances of extremes, one side conspires against the other.

Within the realm of form itself, you have the same type of dance albeit it becomes realms in opposition to realms. Again, extremes can bring forth conspiracies.

So what is a conspiracy? It is when two or more "beings" get together to impose their will upon one or more other "beings."

I see all things as a manifestation of a being... you, me, others, animals, plants, air, wind fire, water, the Earth, the Sun the purportedly manufactured Moon, black holes, the visible light spectrum, all light outside of the visible light spectrum, the dark, and everything else that was not just mentioned or included in what was not just mentioned and this includes thought generated beings, archetypal beings, and currently unnamed and/or unknown beings.

When we step outside of all of "that" we see that essentially, the only conspiracy one might possible be able to do anything about is the conspiracy one has...

...against themselves.

I rest my case with the "Serenity Prayer" (paraphrased)

Accept the things I can't change, change what I can and be wise and courageous enough to discern the difference between the two.

[Prodigal Son]

You cant dispute amature home video that clearly shows that 2 airplanes hit the WTC. No doubt, the conspiracy theorists that say this didnt happen are tricking people for there own personal agenda.All we have for the north tower is the Naudet Brothers video that shows a blurry craft that eyewitnesses said looked like a flying pig and had a whirring sound that didn't sound like any passenger aircraft they had ever heard. If you have anything else please post it.

The second "plane" is not visible in every video... in one clip whatever approached the building looked more like an orb. In another, a view from the Jersey side, there is no plane at all visible on the wide-pan shot before it zoomed in. What we "saw" could have been a hologram but was most likely inserted into the video. The nose came out intact on the other side: IMPOSSIBLE.

There were very few witnesses, if any, that saw the hit on the south tower because you would need to be observing from points south of the WTC, which is a very small area. As for the "hundreds of witnesses", if you have any further evidence please post it, but we already know there were government plants who lied, so once again, how do you distinguish between them?

[Kryztian]

All one can do is be open to the truth and the possibilities. The problem that we humans have, it that we want quick answers, and come to hasty conclusions.

Perhaps some conspiracies aren't conspiracies, but the only way to be sure is to let people to the good and honorable work of the conspiracy theorist and work our way through the evidence and sort things out. If you offended by the process, than perhaps Project Avalon is not the place for you.

[noprophet]

You cant dispute amature home video that clearly shows that 2 airplanes hit the WTC. No doubt, the conspiracy theorists that say this didnt happen are tricking people for there own personal agenda.

Link please.

[donk]

Emotional attachments to manufactured events and focusing on details hides the implications and broader reality.

While we argue over whether we're "conspiracy theorists" or how many people were hurt and how, Enron is still off the hook, people made bazillions of dollars, factions of gov't latched onto tighter control, and the general populace became effectively divided and distracted.

How easily we forget every lesson we learn (quo buono or whatever, who benefits?)

There shouldn't be this enormous gap of evidence in 911. We let it happen in pretty much every media event since, just like US national elections (probably the most effective and expensive and distracting conspiracy ever)

It's fun and maybe important to figure out the details. But I think we'll be hard pressed to ever get adequate information again, not since we never needed it, not for JFK, disclosure, elections, whatever. We'd rather have the drama and play Easter egg hunt for he devilish details.

The implications I am finding from the most recent events (sandy hook and Boston) is that we no longer need evidence, we don't expect detailed eye witness accounts or intelligent in depth explanations of events: whatever the teevee says is gospel, only to be amended by "authorities", who need no credentials or evidence, just a camera and title

[Carmody]

Too far?

Not far enough. Human credulity is the issue, as is usual.

Il07ok_Ah8U

[donk]

So us "conspiracy theorists" are left to pick through the crumbs of info left. Perhaps you (op) have a point that too many people try to be the messiah and turn the crumbs into loaves and fishes and wine, but even still--is it all that important to get the details right?

I think in this day and age where CSI and Law & Order and counter-terrorism type shows are like half the teevee programming, we would expect more from investigators and the media.

Is that the biggest conspiracy of all? Tricking EVERYONE into ignoring such basic truths?

Watching a million shows of crime fighter and mystery solvers and terrorist thwarters wrap up their cases nice and neat, then flipping to the news, where I guess we assume Scooby and the gang will get those pesky perps eventually, everyone else is doing a bang-up job of whatever it is they say they're doing.

Remember anthrax?

How bout Iran-contra??

[Referee]

You sound like you are trying to misdirect the real threads with a non-sequitur argument... very few people have said no one was injured, in fact it is stock and trade to make sure a number of innocents get hurt in every faked up scenario. I would go back and review the hundreds of videos that have been posted... rather odd response when there are a hundreds of videos describing the staged events, clairvoyant bomb drill before the events occurred, brothers trying to give up and saying they didn't do it, false media press against family, amputee actors, but you're concerned that some think maybe no one was injured??? if there really are a few that have said that maybe they are just laying a false trail so that someone can come along and create a false argument... all designed to distract focus from the main issue...

Isn't this the same anti-propaganda argument that failed miserably to distract the Sandyhook whistleblowers... (ouch, )

Agreed Happening Too often here IMHO.

We are open minded here however we also see through the BS.

[Prodigal Son]

You cant dispute amature home video that clearly shows that 2 airplanes hit the WTC. No doubt, the conspiracy theorists that say this didnt happen are tricking people for there own personal agenda.

Link please.For anyone who is wondering why no real planes were used, the truth is that this was a carefully planned attack to destroy evidence... evidence that was leading to the exposure of mind-boggling fraud and money scams. The targets in the WTC were secure computer rooms that were conducting high level investigations. And still, not all the evidence was destroyed. This is one of the best connect-the-dots follow-the-money 911 videos I have seen to date:

vduFYcjbqec

[conk]

When there are so many BIG, BIG lies, everything must be questioned. And when last did one tiny bit of truth come from government or authority?

[Vitalux]

I like a good conspiracy and am open minded to the fact that there is more to the story than what we are being told. But it really bothers me when people put up these conspiracy you tube videos that are just so stupid.


Their are a lot of people, just like you, that have a good laugh at people who believe in conspiracy theories :laugh:
Just as the people who had a good laugh :laugh: at Galileo Galilei, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei) when he advocated that, much to what the Church was telling folks, the world was round and :no: not flat.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/Bertini_fresco_of_Galileo_Galilei_and_Doge_of_Venice.jpg/220px-Bertini_fresco_of_Galileo_Galilei_and_Doge_of_Venice.jpg



One free piece of advice I have to offer is simply this. You can never to too sure about anything. :twitch:

[donk]

Are we sure it was gallelio? Or was it that the time was ripe for the Vatican's allowing of "disclosure"??

:p ;) :rolleyes:

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

The second "plane" is not visible in every video... in one clip whatever approached the building looked more like an orb.
In another, a view from the Jersey side, there is no plane at all visible on the wide-pan shot before it zoomed in.
What we "saw" could have been a hologram but was most likely inserted into the video.
The nose came out intact on the other side:

These 3 things have all been proved to be incorrect due to poor research and like you, I am also too tired to repost the videos but they are all in this forum.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Hello there!
OP, I wanted to tell you, you are not alone!

I believe that planes hit buildings and that legs got blown off.
Now, that doesn't explain why said buildings fell or why legs had to be blown off in the first place, right?

I don't know why all these chumps are picking on you, honestly.
Nothing you said casts a negative light on the idea that conspiracies exist --
I take from what you say that you wish people would think before they act,
and be more careful what they believe.

__________________

You remember in V for Vendetta,
the St. Mary's Virus?
The Nazis in charge blamed the virus on extremists,
when it was the country itself that weaponized it and used it on their own people.

[Selene]

Amystic3434, it seems very much to me that either you are:

a) Deliberately throwing around a bunch of logical misdirects in the hope that some of these non sequiturs will stick to confuse the unwary, (it rhymes with ‘rolling’, actually :rolleyes: ) or

b) You could benefit from sharpening your thinking and studying these issues more thoroughly before playing this game. The overwhelming majority of those who have studied the issues here with the care they deserve have come to the same conclusion: If conspiracy theorists have any failing, it’s that they don’t go far enough…..

If conspiracy theory all seems too silly to you, perhaps you should just have a good laugh and turn the page. We don’t mind.

Cheers,

Selene

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

There was no "orb" skip to 5:30 in the video: http://www.richplanet.net/rp_genre.php?ref=108&part=1&gen=2
Rich has integrity and is not scared to admit he was wrong.


Wide pan shot no plane theory is wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYSGv5HNPxQ

[Prodigal Son]

The second "plane" is not visible in every video... in one clip whatever approached the building looked more like an orb.
In another, a view from the Jersey side, there is no plane at all visible on the wide-pan shot before it zoomed in.
What we "saw" could have been a hologram but was most likely inserted into the video.
The nose came out intact on the other side:

These 3 things have all been proved to be incorrect due to poor research and like you, I am also too tired to repost the videos but they are all in this forum.

Hollow aluminum passenger planes are brittle and can never fly through steel beams as if they were cardboard. At least some of the plane would have broken up on impact and fell to the street. Get out of the delusion.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

The second "plane" is not visible in every video... in one clip whatever approached the building looked more like an orb.
In another, a view from the Jersey side, there is no plane at all visible on the wide-pan shot before it zoomed in.
What we "saw" could have been a hologram but was most likely inserted into the video.
The nose came out intact on the other side:

These 3 things have all been proved to be incorrect due to poor research and like you, I am also too tired to repost the videos but they are all in this forum.

Hollow aluminum passenger planes are brittle and can never fly through steel beams as if they were cardboard. At least some of the plane would have broken up on impact and fell to the street. Get out of the delusion.

Please take the time to watch the 2 short videos below. One of them is from Rich who was the first person to post about and make popular the so called orbs. He was also not afraid to admit he was wrong. Let me know what you think of them. Please don't call me deluded just because we don't agree. Its not the way to go for a civilised discussion.

There was no "orb" skip to 5:30 in the video: http://www.richplanet.net/rp_genre.php?ref=108&part=1&gen=2
Rich has integrity and is not scared to admit he was wrong.


Wide pan shot proving no plane theory and nose theory is wrong and the makers of september clues are selective with their evidence and cherry pick it to support their views..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYSGv5HNPxQ

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

The second "plane" is not visible in every video... in one clip whatever approached the building looked more like an orb.
In another, a view from the Jersey side, there is no plane at all visible on the wide-pan shot before it zoomed in.
What we "saw" could have been a hologram but was most likely inserted into the video.
The nose came out intact on the other side:

These 3 things have all been proved to be incorrect due to poor research and like you, I am also too tired to repost the videos but they are all in this forum.

Hollow aluminum passenger planes are brittle and can never fly through steel beams as if they were cardboard. At least some of the plane would have broken up on impact and fell to the street. Get out of the delusion.

Actually, the faster something is moving, the likelier it may cause damage to anything it hits.
Throwing a bullet at someone, for example, wouldn't even cause a bruise in many cases.
But firing a bullet out of a rifle imparts enough force TO THE OBJECT IN MOTION that on impact, it can crush your skull!

Kind of like a hurricane. You've seen footage of trees stuck in bridges, etc?
Nature is nothing to F around with, and airplanes are just man's way of circumventing the forces of nature and making them work for us...
it doesn't always end well...

as for debris falling to the street? that landing gear qualifies imo.

[Bill Ryan]

So now the conspiracy on the Boston bombing is that no one was really injured and that they were all actors.

That's very far from the alternative media consensus (if there is such as thing!) -- as far as I know. Please beware of making unhelpful, glib generalizations. Many on this forum are way more intelligent than that. :)

For the record, the best summary of what probably happened I've yet seen comes from Alex Jones -- here. Do please watch.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTYJ5Yi-1kk

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

The second "plane" is not visible in every video... in one clip whatever approached the building looked more like an orb.
In another, a view from the Jersey side, there is no plane at all visible on the wide-pan shot before it zoomed in.
What we "saw" could have been a hologram but was most likely inserted into the video.
The nose came out intact on the other side:

These 3 things have all been proved to be incorrect due to poor research and like you, I am also too tired to repost the videos but they are all in this forum.

Hollow aluminum passenger planes are brittle and can never fly through steel beams as if they were cardboard. At least some of the plane would have broken up on impact and fell to the street. Get out of the delusion.

Actually, the faster something is moving, the likelier it may cause damage to anything it hits.
Throwing a bullet at someone, for example, wouldn't even cause a bruise in many cases.
But firing a bullet out of a rifle imparts enough force TO THE OBJECT IN MOTION that on impact, it can crush your skull!

Kind of like a hurricane. You've seen footage of trees stuck in bridges, etc?
Nature is nothing to F around with, and airplanes are just man's way of circumventing the forces of nature and making them work for us...
it doesn't always end well...

as for debris falling to the street? that landing gear qualifies imo.


I can post many pictures of debris. Even a big chuck of jet with passenger windows that crashed onto a roof. But I am off home now and I think its better for people to do their own research and reach their own conclusions.

¤=[Post Update]=¤




So now the conspiracy on the Boston bombing is that no one was really injured and that they were all actors.

That's very far from the alternative media consensus (if there is such as thing!) -- as far as I know. Please beware of making unhelpful, glib generalizations. Many on this forum are way more intelligent than that. :)

For the record, the best summary of what probably happened I've yet seen comes from Alex Jones -- here. Do please watch.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTYJ5Yi-1kk

I saw this earlier today. Its a good summary.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

a Bill post! :flame:

[Cognitive Dissident]

This is an interesting thread. MHO is that AMystic3434 is sincere and well-intentioned, but hasn't done as much research on 9/11 as the others who responded to the OP.

My own perspective: for years I thought there must have been thermite bombs inside the twin towers (it is obvious that the planes could not have demolished the towers), after having read all of David Ray Griffin's books, done a fair amount of research. Then I heard an interview with Dr Judy Wood and realised that the towers were not demolished, but actually distintegrated (or dustified, I forget the exact phrase she used) - and it was obvious all along, looking at the videos, never mind those wierdly exploded cars found blocks away from the towers. Back to the drawing board, Cog.

Anyway, I now have some resistance to the "no planes" theory but I haven't looked into it in any detail. It may well be correct. There is no way I can draw any conclusions about any theory "going too far".

From a historical perspective, I am struck by how bad the inside job is for Sandy Hook and Boston, compared with 9/11. As in, these recent false flags barely make sense on even a superficial level. What is going on here? It can't be a lack of resources to organise them? Anyway, that is the subject of another thread, probably.

[AMystic3434]

your right, I didnt mean to say that everyone was an actor. That is not what they said. They said that only some were actors. But I do believe they said that some of the people who were injured were not really injured but just actors.

[donk]

From a historical perspective, I am struck by how bad the inside job is for Sandy Hook and Boston, compared with 9/11. As in, these recent false flags barely make sense on even a superficial level. What is going on here? It can't be a lack of resources to organise them? Anyway, that is the subject of another thread, probably.

Well I actually thought that this was the point of this thread...but it got hijacked by "911 truthers" at the sight of the word "conspiracy" in the title.

I wish truthers would focus as much energy on what was inside the third building ever to collapse into its own footprint from "fire" as they do the images we were given in the methods of bringing them down.

Wish we could get the past HOW? (That just divides us) and focus on the WHY? (Which should unite us)

[Prodigal Son]

Actually, the faster something is moving, the likelier it may cause damage to anything it hits.
Throwing a bullet at someone, for example, wouldn't even cause a bruise in many cases.
But firing a bullet out of a rifle imparts enough force TO THE OBJECT IN MOTION that on impact, it can crush your skull!


That's the standard debunker's argument, and I'm not buying it. Thin sheets of aluminum are not cutting through 18 inch thick steel beams, I don't care if it's going at the speed of light. The engines and landing gear, thick bulky stuff, yes, no doubt. But not the wings. Sorry. Impossible.

And then you have the problem of how lucky they were to have hit exactly on two computer rooms that were holding enough evidence to put away the perps for a hundred million years. Sorry again, all these co-incidences are beyond the odds of winning Powerball every week for a year.

I'm just trying to help people see the big picture. In the end, it doesn't matter if it was the real planes or not. What matters is the controlled implosions and that Bin Laden and 19 idiots with boxcutters could not have done it.

[onawah]

What I can't understand is why Alex Jones wasn't taken out long ago by the people who he has been exposing, such as the CIA, especially considering that they are more than capable of doing so.
I wonder if it's because his claims seem so outrageous and untrue to the majority, that he is allowed to continue simply because his enemies think he makes Conspiracy Theory look insanely paranoid, and therefore counterproductive to his cause.
Hopefully, that is beginning to change, but if so, as Alex says, it puts him and Infowars into the greatest danger ever.

[CD7]

and focus on the WHY? (Which should unite us)




I agree....the WHY seems to be a neverending cycle of distraction.....distraction from THE-REAL who,wht,how and WHY WE ARE. Such things are never the focus

[Carmody]

Wish we could get the past HOW? (That just divides us) and focus on the WHY? (Which should unite us)

This has always been the point of those who try to break any form of consensus, grouped drive, and then -action, from occurring.

They whitewash their own situations and unify the output of their drive systems (media, corporate, political, etc) into simple repeated messages...for that very reason. They must have unity in order to defeat the formation of doubt in their core audience.

Then they turn to the boards (GLP, ATS, PrisonPlanet, Camelot, Avalon, etc) and the comment sections and newspapers and break up any form of potential agreement and action, via the discussion and argument of details that are meaningless in the face of what is actually being confronted by the mass of people.

They break the next step from happening, the grouped action step... via this exact mechanism. By arguing over the minute bits of the given situation. To introduce misgivings. Always.

If they can't break the next step from happening via breaking connection in the components which allow for conclusion, they go to emotional tirades to break the thought pattern from emerging.


Basically, I really don't give a flying fornication who did what or how it was done. NONE OF THAT MATTERS ONE WHIT.

All that is really important is to unify and go after a bunch of creeping fascists who are trying to, in any form of final analysis..... erect a condition of martial law so they can run the various blocks of the world like fiefdoms and imperial domains. to turn to a imperialistic bloodbath with them at the helm. Like it has been done hundreds of times throughout human history in differing geographical areas.

This time, they wish to to do it to the entire world, or as much as they can.... enough so that it makes no difference.

two key overall considerations for creeping fascists to maintain control:

1: Defeat ANY attempt to introduce even slight forms of broken consensus in the public and public face of corporate media, politics, finance, military and so on. Make examples of those who do, and make it happen soonest. Sometime in less than a day. Rod is one recent example. He got out of line and they reeled him in inside of 16-18 hours. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Blagojevich_corruption_charges

He had the audacity to try and do the right thing regarding local economy and he opened his mouth on the subject. They took him down. Immediately.

2: Defeat any form of consensus from emerging in the alternative to their scene, by introducing the basis for doubt to be there. to cater to the psychology of those who do not want to confront their worst nightmares.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

These are all extrapolations and modernizations of the oldest tricks in the book and go back to the literal aspects of prey vs predator, on the basic animal levels. They are merely complex modern expressions thereof.

[Daughter of Time]

Hello AMystic3434!

I've noticed that many of your threads inspire controversy. This is not criticism. It is observation. The attitude of questioning things that many in this forum fully believe, is not a bad one. Questioning is something we all should do. Nothing should be blindly accepted whether it is information from the government, from the media or from the conspiracy theorists.

In regards to your comment about the planes not/hitting the towers, there is no negation that the towers fell and many died. However, of everything I've heard on that incident, there is one which is more than plausible to me: the planes did not hit the towers because the planes were holograms! The towers collapsed because of the explosives that were placed under the buildings. Planes hitting the towers could not have caused them to instantly collapse. Explosives under the buildings, however, would easily do that.

[CD7]

This time, they wish to to do it to the entire world, or as much as they can.... enough so that it makes no difference.




It seems to me tht it has been done to the entire globe a long time ago.....Its already occurred. Weve been taken over...dividing lines drawn, set up different scenarios within the lines, and sat back to watch the folly unfold. Breaking out of this quagmire of labyrinths thts already staked its claim on OUR SOVEREIGNTY is wht those with pulses are invisioning now.

[Carmody]

Hello AMystic3434!

I've noticed that many of your threads inspire controversy. This is not criticism. It is observation. The attitude of questioning things that many in this forum fully believe, is not a bad one. Questioning is something we all should do. Nothing should be blindly accepted whether it is information from the government, from the media or from the conspiracy theorists.

In regards to your comment about the planes not/hitting the towers, there is no negation that the towers fell and many died. However, of everything I've heard on that incident, there is one which is more than plausible to me: the planes did not hit the towers because the planes were holograms! The towers collapsed because of the explosives that were placed under the buildings. Planes hitting the towers could not have caused them to instantly collapse. Explosives under the buildings, however, would easily do that.

A point that has tried really really REALLY hard to disappear:

Supposedly....:

Neil Bush, of the bush brothers (Jeb, George and Neil) owned a good share of the security company that worked at the world trade tower complex.

That security company was in the buildings for about 35 days, non stop, all night, every night. They worked over the buildings in question, with no security systems in place, no cameras, etc. this, for 35 nights. A crew of about 80 people, IIRC? (from the reports)

Then they sold the security company to someone else.

This work done in the dead of night and then the selling of the security company ....was about 8 months before the buildings went down. They reportedly would shut the security system down, do their work all night, then turn it back on.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

This is an interesting thread. MHO is that AMystic3434 is sincere and well-intentioned, but hasn't done as much research on 9/11 as the others who responded to the OP.

My own perspective: for years I thought there must have been thermite bombs inside the twin towers (it is obvious that the planes could not have demolished the towers)

you recall the film "Escape from New York"?
It sort of shows a guy landing on the WTC ... and doing some stuff to it.... @@
In fact it was kind of like the Anarchist's Cookbook, in retrospect... not that I read that

[DouglasDanger]

I wish truthers would focus as much energy on what was inside the third building ever to collapse into its own footprint from "fire" as they do the images we were given in the methods of bringing them down.


DIng Ding Ding!.......

I have informed over 50 people that three buildings where brought down that day in thier own foot print, most people still have no clue about building 7 little lone know who took up residence in it.. ( CIA FBI etc)..

[Selene]

The superb Dennis Leahy made this very astute and prescient observation some days ago on the “Explosions at Boston Marathon”: (Current Events board) thread Dennis Leahy's comment (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?58170-Explosions-at-Boston-marathon&p=667554&viewfull=1#post667554)


"They" don't want people waking to this, or it could spoil their plans. Be very careful not to fuel the fire of this new meme (blending Boston Marathon conspiracy speculation with 9/11, and painting all with the same "crazy truthers" and "conspiracy nuts" brush), while you proceed diligently with research. I fear there are some deliberately planted "false false flags" that are bait to discredit researchers. Submit data points one-at-a-time, as you observe them, but be careful about making huge declarations and conclusions (until and unless you are truly ready.)

Dennis, you’ve nailed this thread. My hat’s off to you, and many thanks.

Cheers,

Selene

[Selene]

AmerZo’s comments on that thread are also worth repeating here; they are highly relevant: AmerZo’s wise post ( http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?58170-Explosions-at-Boston-marathon&p=667817&viewfull=1#post667817 )


How a psyop is designed to work:

In the Matrix, there is pressure to have people connect their realities to each other. Why? Because groups can thus be created. Groups are easier to compromise than individuals.

We get the concept of hooked ideas. A hooked idea is one which will entice people to merge their realities into One. The hooked idea can be expressed as a slogan, a so-called meme, a principle. It is introduced by people who work psyops.

A psyop is a campaign to herd people into a place where their individual realities overlap.

For the propagandist, there is the eternal search for the good, better, and best hooking idea, the one that will collect the greatest possible number of people under one roof.

This has nothing to do with true progress or honest intent. It has everything to do with control.

Therefore, the actual content and substance and meaning of the hooking idea is irrelevant. A retired propaganda operative once told me, “If I could broadcast a piece of absolute gibberish from one end of the planet to the other, and have it picked up and consented to, I would do it.”

For a psyop specialist, the jackpot is a large group of hooked ideas that, taken together, change the world, and bring a billion or more people’s realities into one overlapping space.

Here is a current ongoing group of such hooked ideas. Before you read them, remember that the aim of such ideas is collecting people under AN IMITATION OF THE REAL THING.

Whatever meaning these hooked ideas have, they are not searching out people to move them into actual individual choices. No, the objective is to rope them under a fake banner that looks real.

“Help others. Help the needy. Raise up the needy. We’re all in this together. Greatest good. Greatest good for the greatest number. Humanity as one. Peace. Let’s all cooperate. The human family…”

This is only a partial list of the group of hooked ideas.

These ideas are transmitted to the global population through every means possible: ads, public service announcements, political speeches, movies, articles, books, the news, television shows of every type, the education system. It’s a blitz, and it doesn’t stop. All the angles are played.

The psyop calculation runs this way: the majority of people who buy in and connect their realities to other people’s realities and achieve overlap—will go passive and accept “the new humane society.” All these people are complete pawns.

The sector of people who buy in and thus share realities, collectively, and then DO something about it…these people will follow a prescribed path. They’ll join the approved groups and campaign for the chosen causes. They’re dupes.

The very small fraction of people who buy into the group of hooked ideas and think of them as genuine and real, and also DO something genuine and real and good about it, will create a manageable amount of disruption to the scheme and the objective—which by the way is a completely collectivist planet. The operative word here is “manageable.”

This same retired propaganda operative, who goes by the pseudonym of Ellis Medavoy (I interview him 28 times in one section of my collection, THE MATRIX REVEALED), explained this “psyop calculation”: “The target of a terrific psyop is yearning and longing. That’s what I looked for when I was working: what people long and yearn for. Something unformed and undefined but very powerful. That’s what I wanted to tap into.

“If I could tap into that, people would buy in and surrender a significant part of whatever their personal world looks like. Because they want to believe they’re coming together with like-minded others. They’ll also believe the path laid out for them is correct and proper and wonderful. This is really a fake religion we’re talking about.

“A fake religion. It’s really for children, and most people turn out to be children. Give them a group of high-minded ideas, and they’ll grab on and think everything they’ve done up to that moment is a prelude to THIS.

“We [operatives] are playing a symphony, you see, and once they listen to the prelude, they’re hooked. They stay. They long for the climax, which doesn’t exist; not the way they imagine it. To them it’s all about ‘arrival in the promised land,’ as if that’s some kind of gift that’s wrapped up under the tree, waiting to be opened.

“We give them a fake god, a dead-end god. If they were once burning with authentic faith, we derail that and take them to another place…”
From the above, let's take the "authentic faith" as the "Truth" of the actual, factual reality of data and the "fake god" as the end result of making someone see -- or believe in the existence of -- something that isn't there, i.e. individual or mass hypnosis/mind control. Consider the "psyop"/propaganda/advertisement campaign battles for a share of the market for competing products like Pepsi and Coca Cola as an example of this.


Now, for the picking apart in terms of psyop:
Will my first "spidey sense tingling" turn out to be correct, or will this be yet one more event with more questions than answers.


Worth repeating.

Cheers,

Selene

[gripreaper]

Wish we could get past the HOW? (That just divides us) and focus on the WHY? (Which should unite us)

yea, the "Why"

Some say there was tons of gold which was removed from the towers before the collapse, some say there were trillions come due on some bonds, or the expiration of the US bankruptcy, which would have lifted the state of emergency and restored the Republic, plus the Pentagon misplaced like 2 trillion dollars? And then the anthrax mailed a few days later? And the investigative evidence destroyed in tower 7?

There's definitely more to the story than what meets the eye. While we debate planes, the elite are running off with all the loot!

[kodokan]

MMM, I would really like the original poster to show one amateur video that showed the planes hitting the WTC, the reason I say this is because I've never seen one. Every time I've looked they seem to "cut" to where the building is collapsing. There is one famous one out there that "cuts" from them standing, then there is a gap (where the building was meant to be hit) then it shows it collapsing. This was filmed by the people who where residing in the apartments opposite. Very weird as that was supposed to be filmed by amateurs with a video camera. I would also like to say that I find it highly strange that someone would question the notion that there might have been a jet airliner that hit the pentagon. One of the most highly "camerised" buildings on earth and not one bit of footage. I would say to people about the OP and the questions raised about 9/11. "IF IT WALKS LIKE A DUCK, QUACKS LIKE A DUCK , ITS A DUCK! TO OP, if you know that actors have been used in situations of false flagging in past, eg Bay of Pigs, why would you post in a manner as if it's all amazingly new to this world. As I say (and with respect) MMM!!!

[InCiDeR]

BEWARE! Some random thoughts ahead!

--

When does a conspiracy theory stop being a conspiracy theory?

Are there any percentages of proven fact that have to be fulfilled before it transforms to something else? If that is the case, who decide the percentages?

When is proven fact proven?

The conflict, as I see it, lies within. In our predetermined conceptions, expectations, core values and belief systems.

When I was new to the idea of deception, I had some hard time to see any event as a conspiracy. Nowadays I struggle with myself to not see everything as a conspiracy. OH, the irony. Sometimes a cigar is a cigar.

If I am predetermined that an event is a false flag, what will I probably see? I will look for evidence that strengthen my theory instead of looking at it objectively. Evidence that not follow my predestinated belief will I reject in a blind cloud of cognitive dissonance.

---

Some have suggested that we should not look at the minor details, the how, instead look at the greater picture, the why. I do not see them as contradictory, I see them as complementary. Different approach to reach the greater goal of “What will be the consequences and what will we do to stop this from happening again? To see the whole, you sometimes have to study the parts.

In psychology they talk about two different information processing:


Psychologists often distinguish between top-down and bottom-up approaches to information-processing. In top-down approaches, knowledge or expectations are used to guide processing. Bottom-up approaches, however, are more like the structuralist approach, piecing together data until a bigger picture is arrived at.

One of the strongest advocates of a bottom-up approach was J.J. Gibson (1904-1980), who articulated a theory of direct perception. This stated that the real world provided sufficient contextual information for our visual systems to directly perceive what was there, unmediated by the influence of higher cognitive processes.

Gibson developed the notion of affordances, referring to those aspects of objects or environments that allow an individual to perform an action.

Gibson's emphasis on the match between individual and environment led him to refer to his approach as ecological. Most psychologists now would argue that both bottom-up and top-down processes are involved in perception.
Source (http://cognitivepsychology.wikidot.com/cognition:topdown)

---

Boston Bombings

When I first approached the event I immediately felt something was wrong. It was too easy for the alternative media to come up with pictures and evidence that this was a false flag. Almost like someone fed them faked evidence. Therefore my early statement “Maybe they target the alternative media as well”.

Then I studied the evidence, they were pretty convincing. Jeeez, this is not real, this is staged. There are no real bombs or injured people.
False Flag – Real Bombs 80-20

Luckily I recalled the danger of the predetermined state of mind “Everything is a conspiracy”. Therefore I searched for other evidence that showed something else. They were pretty convincing. Jeeez, this is real, horrifying real. There were real bombs and lots of injured people.
False Flag – Real Bombs 20-80

Now I had what I needed on the table. Now I started to think. Why is it so many confusing contradictions in the evidence? Why hundreds of pictures showing the victims before and after, up close and distant, but not a single one showing when they placed the bombs?

Because THAT is the real staging taking place. To keep us occupied in argumentation and proving our points of real bombs or not. Meanwhile they have time to hide the real evidence of the why, the who and what will be the outcome.
False Flag and Real Bombs 90-90 (leaving some room for the uncertainty principle)

…

Why this short replay of my steps to conclusions?

I wanted to elaborate if I did go too far. I posted pictures in every step of my thought process, until I reached my conclusion. Shouldn’t I have done that? I was hoping that my fellow avalonians should prove me wrong and point out what I had missed… and they did! That is the strength of this community; I believe that we together will come closer to truth than alone. IF we are ready to kill our darlings.

In retrospect, maybe I should have waited with pictures. In a way I helped the agenda of create confusion by provide evidence for both sides. BUT, I didn’t know that in the beginning.

---

So, have conspiracy theorist gone too far?

In my opinion, that statement is focusing on the symptoms not the cause
It is the CABAL that gone too far, without them doing all crazy stuff, we wouldn’t be here… and that is actually a scary thought:

We are in a way dependent on false flag, deception and craziness that the cabal creates.... and so are the cabal...

THAT, in my opinion, is a much more important question to discuss!

[Flowerpunkchip]

In case there are still doubts that there were no planes...

I have met this person who saw one of the planes - His name is Scott Forbes.
He mentions it in this video. He is an important witness when it comes to the explosives that may have been planted in the building. I say "may". I believe so but I could be wrong.
GrYRAEjm-xw
I took his photo when i met him...
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h47/flowerpunkchip/DSC_0111.jpg
He was accompanied by William Rodriguez who is a bit of a hero of mine... I've seen him speak out for 9/11 truth 3 times in London.
Took this photo of William and his key which he used to save many lives.
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h47/flowerpunkchip/DSC_0110.jpg

I went to a few talks and meetings with the London 9/11 truth group. And one evening, there were a couple of men who insisted that there were no planes. I am the shy quiet type but I openly disagreed and the next thing I know, I'm being accused of being a government agent. I didn't take the accusation seriously but it one of the factors which put me off from going to such meetings.

So yes, sometimes conspiracy theories go too far.

What about David Icke telling us that the Queen of England and Prince Charles being shape shifting aliens?
I totally believe in aliens visiting us, but the Queen of England?? Maybe that should be for another thread? goodnight from London zzzzzzzz

[indigopete]

What about David Icke telling us that the Queen of England and Prince Charles being shape shifting aliens?
I totally believe in aliens visiting us, but the Queen of England??

If you actually follow the totality of what he says about shape-shifting, he's talking about a kind of 'resonant field' between the perceiver and the perceived where one is seen to shape-shift. We normally make a strong distinction between the material nature of things and their metaphysical nature. (For example, you can easily make a distinction between someone's physical appearance and how you experience their personality).

However, that distinction can become blurred - e.g. when we hallucinate. I remember having fevers as a kid where I just could not settle on a reality. Everything ran into everything else - inanimate objects had personalities and animate ones were like ghosts. I absolutely sh*t myself. I never hallucinated as an adult, but I can easily identify with this "shapeshifting" metaphore as a resonant field between the perceiver and the perceived.

[ghostrider]

John Lear speaks of the planes being hologram technology... He had several test pilots with lots of years flying use a simulator and try and hit the towers and none of them could hit the buildings flying that type of airplane, and it cannot do the speed they say it was supposed to do , it would fall apart... Usually the news plays the same thing over and over and over, when there is a big story, we say the 911 planes Once... then follow up videos appear to be edited, all the worlds a stage , and we are merely players, everything is manipulated, the entire planet is under some form of mind control ...No one speaks of the cars on the bridge that were melted yet paper didn't burn ... the wtc memorial site is set up just like Mecca, everyone walks in one direction around a square, there is more to this than you think... anytime they tried to re-build in the wtc site the buildings would just collapse, whatever they did it is an ongoing effect of atoms and matter disassociation ...How could a plane dissappear into a building completely ??? sheet metal withstanding steel beams ??? if it's not a conspiracy then why so many witnesses dead ??? why the remains of the wtc off limits and shipped off to china for melting down ??? The day before 911 , rumsfield admits the pentegon misplaced 2.3 trillion dollars, and the place where the records are kept was the exact spot the missle oops I mean the plane hit ... but it's not a conspiracy... saudi men flew planes into buildings and we invade Iraq ??? Osama bin laden was a Saudi, yet we look in the mountains of Afganistan ??? We find him hiding in Pakistan ??? wait those guys were Saudi's , why haven't we invaded Saudi Arabia ??? but it's not a conspiracy , it just happened to be all tied around the lost 2.3 trillion and oil, wait the Bushes are oil men right ??? isn't that neat ??? Bush goes out of office and the price of gas goes down ??? isn't that neat ??? two Irag wars with two Bushes in charge ??? isn't that neat ??? but it's not a conspiracy , it just a movie and they are all actors, and we the audience , are we entertained yet ??? back to the ball games, and american Idol ... back to watching millionaires play games against each other like it matters in the grand scheme of things, or millionaires pretending in movies with other millionaires backed by billioinaires doing what they don't want us to do like , cheat, use firearms to shoot each other, steal money and blow things up , hmmmm sounds like mind control to me ... isn't that neat ??? YES IT'S A CONSPIRACY ... 3.000 people killed, just like bengazi, people killed , JFK killed, they kill and we look the other way , things will only change when WE change it ... asking questions is the only way to start, and never believe what the ptb or the media tell you , they are lying and manipulating the truth of earth matters at every level ... we are told what to buy, what to wear, how to think, what to drive, 5 minutes of programming, with 18 minutes of advertising products we don't need and cannot afford, yet millions watch every night, television programming ...tell lie vision programming ...

[Prodigal Son]

All the world's a stage....

MNdXjp8NEEY

VlQjPOksaR8

2GUv2ySZ1TM

[donk]

Some have suggested that we should not look at the minor details, the how, instead look at the greater picture, the why. I do not see them as contradictory, I see them as complementary. Different approach to reach the greater goal of “What will be the consequences and what will we do to stop this from happening again? To see the whole, you sometimes have to study the parts.

I do not see them contradictory either, if you understand the "details" I'm talking about are pieces of information provided by _____. The media? Some dude with a blog? A supposed eye witness?

In other words: you didn't directly experience the people laying on the road, neither was the guy your discussing this with, so the detail is NOT legless definitely identified victim, it is a picture of him provided by someone for some reason.

And I think the rest of the post I didn't pluck agrees with that, right?

I just think its impossible to ever KNOW anything for sure, and you can never the 100% context of any of it, so as I've said before, the details may be as or even more important than the results, but in this day and age when we should have solid information on all aspects of all details, we are seemingly provide insufficient data to properly experience the "details"...though we do fully experience the impact, the implications, and possibly he purpose no matter what. It's our definite reality, the pieces not so much.

[wolf_rt]

"These are the people that give the good conspiracy theorists a bad name"

This is the point... need to do something to take the focus off the sandy hook shooting which WAS paid actors ect....

[InCiDeR]

Some have suggested that we should not look at the minor details, the how, instead look at the greater picture, the why. I do not see them as contradictory, I see them as complementary. Different approach to reach the greater goal of “What will be the consequences and what will we do to stop this from happening again? To see the whole, you sometimes have to study the parts.

I do not see them contradictory either, if you understand the "details" I'm talking about are pieces of information provided by _____. The media? Some dude with a blog? A supposed eye witness?

In other words: you didn't directly experience the people laying on the road, neither was the guy your discussing this with, so the detail is NOT legless definitely identified victim, it is a picture of him provided by someone for some reason.

And I think the rest of the post I didn't pluck agrees with that, right?

I just think its impossible to ever KNOW anything for sure, and you can never the 100% context of any of it, so as I've said before, the details may be as or even more important than the results, but in this day and age when we should have solid information on all aspects of all details, we are seemingly provide insufficient data to properly experience the "details"...though we do fully experience the impact, the implications, and possibly he purpose no matter what. It's our definite reality, the pieces not so much.

Hi there my friend. My statement wasn't directed towards you or your post. Nevertheless, thank you for clarifying this. I see now that I happened to use same wordings HOW and WHY, sorry for the confusion... or I am not sorry! I'm a PsyOp agent, so the confusion is actually good ;)

On a serious note, in the different threads concerning Boston Bombings I noticed some people wished to focus on THE WHY immediately (top-down model). Absolutely nothing wrong with that. I just wanted to show that in general there are different approaches to every given subject or event. Some prefer top-down, others bottom-up, and yet other a mix of the two.

So I guess we are at the same page here!

By the way. I regard every piece of information as important, even obsolete information, lack of information and information not given/handed. Every chapter tells its own story, and together they create a book. Hopefully we will able to discern the plot.

EDIT:
To keep us occupied in argumentation and proving our points of real bombs or not.
I think this thread shows the above pretty clear! Why not agree that 9/11 was probably staged? It seems to me that you all agreeing on that. In my opinion though, you should continue that debate in the proper thread.... if you still feel the need, that is!

[Tangri]

how can you say that 2 airplanes didnt hit the WTC. It was witnesses by hundreds of people. The media didnt insert the plane that hit the south tower an airplane really hit it. As far as the pentagon goes. Im not sure if an airplane really hit the pentagon, even though they say that im still not convinced. So you saying there were faked injuries at the Boston bombing. That is BS why would they even need fake injuries when they have a real bomb going off. That would mean that the medical team was in on it. You dont see any medical personal coming forward saying that some of the injuries were fake.

All im saying is that be careful what you watch on you tube and believe. Its like when in the movie the Matrix when Neo asks if you die in the matrix do you die in real life and Morphius says yes the mind makes it real. Well that is what happens....The mind makes it real.

I am not sure if you are a government contractor or just a naive human.
I strongly recommend you to check victims' background and search for hypovolemic shock after a laceration of limps.
None of the victims lost enough blood comparing with their injuries, and emergency respond from aid workers was not resonate with situation.
Also check smoke/ panic bombs
http://www.superiorsignal.com/smoke-products/specialty-smoke/standard-smoke-grenade
I was fed up to write and explain for a while because of the gov contractors in Avalon forum but I am not sure on Nativity level/rate and I am doing it again.

[donk]

I'm in complete agreement with you, incider...both are very essential, depending on the case maybe sometimes one more than the other. I was leaning toward my preference in these cases when the "how" seems so distorted to the point of distraction that perhaps it's wise to let go of some of the "how" details that just turn in to an unresolvable argument.

Of at least take a step back and examine your emotional attachment to your particular perspective on it. And by "you", I am most certainly not directing that at you...I'm pretty sure we are on the same wavelength...I mean the endless arguers--I mean, does it matter if they were holograms? Tupac doing concerts proves it COULD have been. Pretty much everyone here doesn't believe it was 19 clowns with boxcutters and Osama in some cave by now, right? Jeez look at me, I'm guilty of letting 911 jack the thread too!!!

Anyway, back on topic: I understand it would be disturbing if someone was insensitively pushing a "blame the victim" story where no one is hurt, I'm not sure that happens often here, and is more often a misunderstood interpretation of someone expressing an extremely radical idea that doesn't appeal to the reader. The receiving & reaction to an idea is just as important as the transmission. So yes, in the minds of the receiver, people can go to far. Mostly, information (even false or misunderstood) is "nuetral" in itself--how (& why!) it's used determines "too far".

[PHARAOH]

AMystic3434,


If you (be-lie-eve) that an aluminum airplane can go through steel and reinforced concrete, then you my friend should be careful what you watch, read and listen to. As someone whom has spent much time in the towers, this is not possible.

The airplane wings should have been the first to crack off with the weight of the engines and free fall to the street below. However, this did not occur.

AMystic3434, don't you realize that the official version of 9/11 "IS" a "Conspiracy Theory"???

19 Cave dwellers with no commercial jetliner flight experience highjack 4 commercial jetliners with "box cutters"!!!???

What does that say about the american "males" on these planes??? Where they were afraid of being cut or injured by box cutters in defense of there very lives.

How does one break into a cock pit with a mere box cutter???

Why would the pilots risk everyones lives including their own over box cutter injuries when they could have easily forced a landing???

oh yeah, they did find one of the alleged hijackers passports on the street in tact without even the slightest scratch. Therefor it must be true.

[Prodigal Son]

The airplane wings should have been the first to crack off with the weight of the engines and free fall to the street below.
Thank you :)

You know, I was really fooled by this 911 physics stuff. I had to do some demolition on my house, my friend had borrowed my sawz-all, and so I invented this machine that shoots sheets of Reynolds wrap at 560 mph, but it wouldn't even put a scratch in my 2X4's !! What went wrong??

[Praxis]

Judy Wood. Where did the towers go. Once you realize what happened. Then you can start talking about how. The two planes are irrelevant. The data Judy presents is enough to prove it was not conventional tech. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1NbBxDGSkI I really dont understand why everybody on this site doesnt just present her information anytime 9-11 discussion comes up. How doesnt matter until you understand what happened. If you try to discuss how before you know what happened, then you are wasting time on uninformed speculation.

Really it makes me sad that this place hasnt come to a consensus on her data and started to talk about how from the foundation she lays of what. IF you are still talking about heat death of the building, You have not been paying attention. IF you think thermite, you havent been paying attention. If you are discussing planes, you have not been paying attention. If you are not talking about people like Jerome Hauer, Jon O Neil, Jay Jonas, Kroll Associates, then you have not been paying attention.

Clearly something is fishy about boston, My brother says that uniformed, both army fatigue and regular, police presence on campus has drastically expanded. Also, the Economist article says that we are going to Charge the bomber, WHO WAS SHOT IN THE THROAT AND CAN NOT SPEAK MUCH EVEN and I would like to know when exactly occurred me thinks it was after they found him in the boat otherwise he probably would have bled out(but this is speculation), with using a weapon of mass destruction. When did a improvised bombed like the pressure cooker become a weapon of mass destruction? Does this mean we can try CIA operators for dropping advanced weapons of mass destruction(missiles) all over the world?
Were the Boston bombers a fake? Doesnt matter. Were real people hurt. Doesnt Matter. What matters is watching the reactions of the government and the media. THis will tell you what is going and why. Clearly this was a test for martial law without strong arming people. My brother and most of Boston stayed indoors on request of the police. Think about that for a second. They now have heavily armed people on MIT campus. IN ARMY FATIGUEs. Militarization of the police should scare the **** out of you. Boston was a test run for something. That something should make you nervous because they are getting quite good at reacting in real time and staying ahead of the wave(not only that but molding the wave to conform with how they say things are going down). What laws were passed why the US focused on this btw?

Im still puzzled by whose move this was. Never get into the rut of thinking that the people that run this planet are a homogenous group that work always together. I think it is more like different gangster groups that sometimes work together because they share common aims, but want to rule over the other eventually.

random aside in mind: Jesus sat at the table and said to his disciples that one of them would betray him. Now everbody assumes that this is Judas because he pointed out Jesus to the guards to be crossed. However, betrayal requires countering of intent. Judas didnt betray Jesus' intent. He merely played his part of the story which ends on the cross. So who betrayed jesus?

Finally. The catholics say "E nominae patri e fili e spiritu sancti" or something close to that which means in the name of the FATHER the son and the holy spirit(where father clearly is god). Now ask yourself "What are you supposed to call catholic priests?" This dawned on me the other day: The catholic church has been hiding Gnostic truth right in front of everyones face.

[ThePythonicCow]

Judy Wood. Where did the towers go. Once you realize what happened. Then you can start talking about how. The two planes are irrelevant. The data Judy presents is enough to prove it was not conventional tech. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1NbBxDGSkI I really dont understand why everybody on this site doesnt just present her information anytime 9-11 discussion comes up. How doesnt matter until you understand what happened. If you try to discuss how before you know what happened, then you are wasting time on uninformed speculation.

...
What matters is watching the reactions of the government and the media. THis will tell you what is going and why. Clearly this was a test for martial law without strong arming people. My brother and most of Boston stayed indoors on request of the police. Think about that for a second. They now have heavily armed people on MIT campus. IN ARMY FATIGUEs. Militarization of the police should scare the **** out of you.
Yes ... and yes.

[grannyfranny100]

AMystic3434 - glib generalizations and name calling may bring you relief from frustration but it is precisely the kind of mind set used in some of the videos you are condemning. Have you considered searching this site for all the previous 911 and Boston threads that may provide you with some insight about the complexities of these incidents?

[sigma6]

how can you say that 2 airplanes didnt hit the WTC. It was witnesses by hundreds of people. The media didnt insert the plane that hit the south tower an airplane really hit it. As far as the pentagon goes. Im not sure if an airplane really hit the pentagon, even though they say that im still not convinced. So you saying there were faked injuries at the Boston bombing. That is BS why would they even need fake injuries when they have a real bomb going off. That would mean that the medical team was in on it. You dont see any medical personal coming forward saying that some of the injuries were fake.

All im saying is that be careful what you watch on you tube and believe. Its like when in the movie the Matrix when Neo asks if you die in the matrix do you die in real life and Morphius says yes the mind makes it real. Well that is what happens....The mind makes it real.

Even though this post seems like another attempt at distracting from the main core message (all of a sudden showing concern for 9/11 in the middle of a Boston Bombing thread... brilliant)

But anyhow if you watch September clues those (hundreds of people actually only comprise a small percentage, it was discovered there were 5 or 6 major groups that ranged from 5 to 20% each... So in fact the MSM "impression" that anyone actually saw two "commercial airliners" fly into the buildings is not valid, since 80% of potentially available witnesses in New York City did NOT see any planes. Planes, that according to professional engineers and airline pilots would be impossible to miss because by flying below 500 feet at that speed would have been deafening. Although I will admit there were some people who insisted they saw a plane, but also insisted it was NOT a commercial plane.

So what ever happened was a elaborately engineered false flag event that undoubtedly used multiple attacks from many different angles just like a major hollywood production would to create an sensational EFFECT. So far we there are thermite and possible nuclear explosives, energy beam weapons, military craft, missiles, etc. (ie. everyone had a part right) Personally I think the floating ball that was seen on TV was actually the vestige of a photoshop effect which was clearly demonstrated in another video (which also perfectly explained the bulge under the airplane photo (it was sticking through the superimposed image)

Septmember Clues...

[sigma6]

Wish we could get past the HOW? (That just divides us) and focus on the WHY? (Which should unite us)

yea, the "Why"

Some say there was tons of gold which was removed from the towers before the collapse, some say there were trillions come due on some bonds, or the expiration of the US bankruptcy, which would have lifted the state of emergency and restored the Republic, plus the Pentagon misplaced like 2 trillion dollars? And then the anthrax mailed a few days later? And the investigative evidence destroyed in tower 7?

There's definitely more to the story than what meets the eye. While we debate planes, the elite are running off with all the loot!

That's 2.3 trillion that represents the labour and productivity of Americans (magically flushed down the toilet....) and that is what has been going miss EVERY YEAR since the Pentagon's inception... I'll bet mostly to build the over 100 hidey holes they were planning on retreating to when they were going to leave the rest of to die of nuclear radiation poisoning...

So in a sense 9/11 was an incredible success on that front for the Elite, as no one still seems to be asking

"hey what do you think the general public could do with an extra 2.3 TRILLION dollars a year?... hmmm....

What could we do if we didn't have to give it to the Military Industrial Complex or the Police or the Government.... hmmm....
(my head hurts, I need to go eat a hotdog and an aspirin and go serve some donuts now)

[grannyfranny100]

Dr. Judy Wood pointed out that if we see something we don't recognize, we will transfigure it into something we do recognize. Holograms of airplanes at 911 may be an example. Who knows what we really saw in Boston versus what we may have transformed so it makes sense to us.

TPTB technology is so advance compared to what is commonplace in our everyday existences. Just think how bystander testimonies often conflicts even though all were watching the same incident such as a car wreck.

Best not to jump to conclusions from 911 small sample sizes and decide it applies to Boston. That kind of "logic" is like whisper down the lane childhood games where we laugh at the beginning message and the transformed message at the end.

[Maia Gabrial]

Well, I'm a Conspiracy Factist and I'm saying that this Boston "bombing" was fake all the way. Even amateurs can spot the inconsistencies of this. Did any of these so called victims look convincing to you? Ask any war veteran how an injured person would really look and act when they had body parts blown off them; and they'll tell you how fake all this looked to them. This so called bombing was misrepresented by the medias. Obviously, something blew up; but no one got hurt. It was just a carefully controlled disaster DRILL. And some people are trying to say that this was worse than 911.... PULEEEEZ! If people don't pay attention to the details, then Shame Stream Medias will try to get away with lies and sensationalism. And let's face it, they love doing this. Watch them closer on the news and you'll see what I mean. They should an acting award.
We're living in a great time of deceptions. The best way to deal with Shame Stream is to question their veracity. Let them prove themselves to us. They've been caught lying before. So, why is this any different?

Most suspicious things don't ring true. Thank God for people who take notice. If enough people question things and bring forth proof, then it quickly turns into fact. Notice how Sandy Hook has faded away from the medias? It was a total failure....This will be, too...Count on it!

[T Smith]

I like a good conspiracy and am open minded to the fact that there is more to the story than what we are being told. But it really bothers me when people put up these conspiracy you tube videos that are just so stupid.

So now the conspiracy on the Boston bombing is that no one was really injured and that they were all actors. This is the biggest bunch of BS ive heard in a long time. I just dont believe it, how can people live with themself and spread such nonsense. These are the people that give the good conspiracy theorists a bad name. Its the same when people were saying that airplanes really didnt hit the WTC buildings. How gulible can people really be. But more importantly, how shameful is it to spread such BS.

Despite such nonsense by these conspiracy theorists. I still believe that we dont have the full story. I guess you just have to be careful what you decide to let in. And dont forget to think about things before you believe them. A little logic goes a long way.

To begin with, we should ban the phrase "conspiracy theory". Let's try to discuss these things using more appropriate language. Perhaps the greatest trick of manipulation is to control the language. Our cultural lexicon is being dumbed down to such a degree that even the process of critical examination of factual evidence and conclusive documentation of physical reality is rendered to some form of "conspiracy theory." Hence reality and absurdity all lumped together to serve the engineers of perception.

If we must deal with potential conspiracies, I suggest we use the phrase, conspiracy analyst. The irony is, conspiracy is among the most common of all human experiences. Once one analyzes any alleged conspiracy, some facts hold water, others don't.

[Carmody]

Very recently...2 people allegedly died in an alleged bombing in Boston.

Very recently.... 134,000 people starved to death in Somalia.

[InCiDeR]

To begin with, we should ban the phrase "conspiracy theory". Let's try to discuss these things using more appropriate language. Perhaps the greatest trick of manipulation is to control the language. Our cultural lexicon is being dumbed down to such a degree that even the process of critical examination of factual evidence and conclusive documentation of physical reality is rendered to some form of "conspiracy theory." Hence reality and absurdity all lumped together to serve the engineers of perception.

If we must deal with potential conspiracies, I suggest we use the phrase, conspiracy analyst. The irony is, conspiracy is among the most common of all human experiences. Once one analyzes any alleged conspiracy, some facts hold water, others don't.

...or why not conspirity theory
(with spirit theory)

Italian : con, with + spirito, spirit, soul.]


I actually liked that name! ;)

[Taurean]

I'll have a look " INTUIT "

[gripreaper]

Well, this is all too real.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNDmDZi05dY

[Syl]

they say the devil is in the details,.. maybe its better to focus on the bigger picture,. i think most ''conspiracy'' theorists will all agree 911 was an inside job' so to speak,. or at least an event to make certain things possible, for a certain group, with certain motives,.

whether i kill you with an axe, knife or a gun, you'd still be dead, it doesnt reveal my motives.

saying it was a hologram, thermite, maybe a drone plane,.. it doesnt really matter,. what really matters is what happens afterwards,. the social/political dynamics,.

as for boston,. i think the same counts,..

[grannyfranny100]

Syl, yes the devil is in the details. As to motives, the Boston event fits with the the coming UN small arms treaty. Gun right advocates claim that Obama plans to sign the UN small arms treaty in June and is pushing Congress hard on US gun rights. Will he illegally sign it without Congressional approval?

Imagine our entire planet free of guns and of course bandits still having their contacts to get them. I was surprised at how easy it was to get people to give in to the trial run of martial law in Boston as the hunt for one teenager happened. The best I understand, people were forced out of their homes without warrants and with their arms raised as their homes were search for the bad dude. What's next, registration to own a pressure cooker?

[Syl]

Grannyfranny, exactly,.

[Carmody]

Part of the reason of the deeper 'why' behind all this sort of stuff. The martial law stuff. Why those who use force and scarcity to maintain control are on the verge of loosing that control.

Once westerners, Americans, and the world in general..find out how badly they've been screwed over, the best the elitists might be able to find, is a cross between an eternal Nazi hunt and a guillotine. For their entire genetic basis in psychopathy -to the last man, woman, and child who carries those genetic markers. Their best hope is simply to be allowed to live their lives out. But no more sociopaths. No more bloodlines in those directions. Sociopathy....Which we can now test for.

In the final analysis, 'None Shall Pass'. The irony of them folding back in on themselves.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?17872-The-Question-of-Lithium--Alchemy-dimensions-shapeshifters-aliens-existence-reality..-&p=671922&viewfull=1#post671922

[Hervé]

From : http://www.globalresearch.ca/state-crimes-against-democracy/17922

Countering Authoritarian Followers’ castigation of ‘conspiracy theories’: The scientific reality of State Crimes Against Democracy (SCADs) (http://www.sott.net/article/261459-Countering-Authoritarian-Followers-castigation-of-conspiracy-theories-The-scientific-reality-of-State-Crimes-Against-Democracy-SCADs)
New research in the journal American Behavioral Scientist (Sage publications, February 2010) addresses the concept of “State Crimes Against Democracy” (SCAD). Professor Lance deHaven-Smith from Florida State University writes that SCADs involve high-level government officials, often in combination with private interests, that engage in covert activities for political advantages and power. Proven SCADs since World War II include McCarthyism (fabrication of evidence of a communist infiltration), Gulf of Tonkin Resolution (President Johnson and Robert McNamara falsely claimed North Vietnam attacked a US ship), burglary of the office of Daniel Ellsberg’s psychiatrist in effort to discredit Ellsberg, the Watergate break-in, Iran-Contra, Florida’s 2000 Election (felon disenfranchisement program), and fixed intelligence on WMDs to justify the Iraq War.1

Other suspected SCADs include the assassination of Lee Harvey Oswald, the shooting of George Wallace, the October Surprise near the end of the Carter presidency, military grade anthrax mailed to Senators Tom Daschle and Patrick Leahy, Martin Luther King’s assassination, and the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 on September 11, 2001. The proven SCADs have a long trail of congressional hearings, public records, and academic research establishing the truth of the activities. The suspected SCADs listed above have substantial evidence of covert actions with countervailing deniability that tend to leave the facts in dispute.2

The term “conspiracy theory” is often used to denigrate and discredit inquiry into the veracity of suspected SCADs. Labeling SCAD research as “conspiracy theory” is an effective method of preventing ongoing investigations from being reported in the corporate media and keep them outside of broader public scrutiny. Psychologist Laurie Manwell, University of Guelph, addresses the psychological advantage that SCAD actors hold in the public sphere. Manwell, writing in American Behavioral Scientist (Sage 2010) states, “research shows that people are far less willing to examine information that disputes, rather than confirms, their beliefs . . . pre-existing beliefs can interfere with SCADs inquiry, especially in regards to September 11, 2001.”3

Professor Steven Hoffman, visiting scholar at the University of Buffalo, recently acknowledged this phenomenon in a study “There Must Be a Reason: Osama, Saddam and Inferred Justification.” Hoffman concluded, “Our data shows substantial support for a cognitive theory known as ‘motivated reasoning,’ which suggests that rather than search rationally for information that either confirms or disconfirms a particular belief, people actually seek out information that confirms what they already believe. In fact, for the most part people completely ignore contrary information.”4

Full article at: http://www.globalresearch.ca/state-crimes-against-democracy/17922 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/state-crimes-against-democracy/17922:)

[T Smith]

Wish we could get past the HOW? (That just divides us) and focus on the WHY? (Which should unite us)

yea, the "Why"

Some say there was tons of gold which was removed from the towers before the collapse, some say there were trillions come due on some bonds, or the expiration of the US bankruptcy, which would have lifted the state of emergency and restored the Republic, plus the Pentagon misplaced like 2 trillion dollars? And then the anthrax mailed a few days later? And the investigative evidence destroyed in tower 7?

There's definitely more to the story than what meets the eye. While we debate planes, the elite are running off with all the loot!

Any good chess move has multiple ramifications. The "why" of it all is multi-dimensional, and intentionally so. Once "truthers" and and analysts and researchers begin to analyze any psyops two-dimensionally, they're hopelessly lost and become part of the psyops itself and only encourage divide and conquer and many of the other outstanding observations outlined by others in this thread.

**EDIT: Which is not to say I don't agree with the OP about concentrating on the 'why' instead of the 'how' -- only to point out that every layer of analysis contains the same traps. We need only be aware of the traps. At the end of the day if the proposed "whys", which on the surface may even appear as competing explanations, are outrageously conspiratorial, loosely contrived with dubious facts, or simply coincidental, it doesn't matter. They just are. Many of the most brilliant moves I've ever made in a chess game were not conspiratorial, that is to say, a deliberate action conspiring with my intellect and consciousness, yet they were a conspiring action at some level, with my instinct and intuition. The collective consciousness of a contrived conspiracy is no different.