Fermentation recipes - source of essential pro-biotics. Please add your own.

[music]

Medical science now recognizes the benefits of pro-biotics, and uses supplements to treat virtually all conditions with an auto-immune component with great success. But why pay for supplements when you get much more in the way of pro-biotics, both numerically and in species diversity by fermenting food. I will get the ball rolling with my basic Kimchi recipe.

Kimchi, fermented Korean vegetables.

Spicy, tasty, and loaded with 200+ species of beneficial pro-biotics if fermented with care.

4 x daikon radish
4 x carrot
6 x red radish
1 x sweet potato
1 x sugar loaf cabbage
Anything else, including broccoli stalks, snow peas, jerusalem artichokes, whatever!

Soak in brine 4 tblsp salt/litre (1 tblsp/cup) overnight.
Mix a paste of seeded chillies, LOTS of garlic, LOTS of ginger, brown rice flour, even fish sauce if you can get it preservative/chemical free. Remove veges from brine, rub paste into them, stuff them into jars or a crock, return brine, cover (airtight or not, I let air in to mine), and check everyday to push veges under the surface. Scrape off any mould that blooms, but don’t worry, you won’t be able to get it all, and it won’t hurt you.

All ingredients must be organic/bio-dynamic/chemical free, otherwise the micro-organisms required for fermentation will be inhibited or killed. Experiment with other veges. Wombok (chinese) cabbage is traditional, but very hard to get or grow organically, so sugar loaf cabbage is my substitute. If you don’t use rubber gloves when you rub the paste in (as I don’t), expect your hands to be hot for a while! Especially if you add cayenne pepper to the mix as I did for my last one! It was worth it though. I will make another Kimchi today that will be child friendly, ie not so spicy, and I will slightly sweeten it toward the end.

Also see: The gut of most disease - not what you think (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43548-The-gut-of-most-disease...-NOT-what-you-think-)

[RunningDeer]

This was my first batch of lacto-fermented vegetables. There's lots of information on WhiteFeather’s thread, “My Holistic Medicine Cabinet (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?56870-My-Holistic-Medicine-Cabinet&p=647232&viewfull=1#post647232)” & Dawn’s thread, “The gut of most disease... NOT what you think! (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43548-The-gut-of-most-disease...-NOT-what-you-think-)” Lots of information there, too.


What are Lacto-Fermented Vegetables?

Health Benefits of Lacto-Fermentation, by Susan Godfrey of “Real Food, Real Frugal (http://realfoodrealfrugal.com/2012/11/22/health-benefits-of-lacto-fermentation/)”

“...Lacto-fermentation is a natural process to preserve foods and stops the growth of bacteria that causes foods to go bad. Unlike modern preservation methods which kills all the good stuff in food, lacto-fermentation make nutrients more absorbable and provides the intestines with friendly bacteria. The heating process of commercial fermented foods destroys the enzymes and friendly bacteria. The process of lacto-fermentation turns sugars and starches into helpful acids, mainly lactic acid. Lactic acid breaks down the proteins and helps the body absorb them. It also aids in the absorption of iron. Lactic acid does not cause the body to become over acidic. Lacto-fermented foods help to normalize the acidity of our stomach.

Foods that have been lacto-fermented contain many vitamins, friendly bacteria and enzymes that our bodies need. They contain B vitamins, omega 3 fatty acids, digestive enzymes, lactase, lactic acid and probiotics. Traditionally foods that have been lacto-fermented include sauerkraut, sour dough bread, tamari, chutney, yogurt, kefir, and kimchi. It supports our immune systems, reduces cholesterol, acts as and anti-biotic and anti-carcinogen.

Lacto-fermented foods promote the growth of friendly intestinal bacteria and aids in digestion. It strengthens the digestive system and increases the vitamin levels in our bodies because we are able to absorb them more readily. Lacto-fermentation neutralizes phytic acid, an unhealthy chemicals in grains and beans. Phytic acid blocks the absorption of calcium, iron, phosphorus and zinc, which leads to mineral deficiencies and bone loss. It also acts as an enzyme inhibitor. Lacto-fermentation neutralizes the phytic acid and helps break down gluten and sugar. Lacto-fermentation of dairy makes it more digestible and adds lactase to the dairy products. Soybeans are extremely high in phytic acid and must always be eaten fermented, preferably naturally by lacto-fermentation....”



How to Make Lacto-Fermented Vegetables
This is link has a great 6 minute vid (http://www.nourishingmeals.com/2012/02/how-to-make-lacto-fermented-vegetables.html), a reference and ideas section. It takes about a week to ferment and then you refrigerate. They keep for months.

Here’s my first batch:

beet, carrot, red pepper, red onion, garlic & herbs and spices.
broccoli, cauliflower, green beans, red pepper, red onion, garlic & herbs and spices


http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Recovered/Fermented_zps60bae9c5.JPG

[Akasha]

Really looking forward to doing this, Music. Thanks a lot. How long after rubbing the paste in and re-submerging will it be ready to eat?

[RunningDeer]

After researching all the benefits from Lacto-Fermentation, I sprung for a fermenting crock pot and now make sauerkraut.


Fermenting Sauerkraut with Daniel Vitalis, Part 1
UDdZJNsIC3E

Fermenting Sauerkraut with Daniel Vitalis, Part 2
jjfvP4pAUuY

[RunningDeer]

"How to Make Water Kefir"
UdLl1i_GwXU

Kefir explained and it’s benefits from from kefir.net


What is Kefir? (http://www.kefir.net/what-is-kefir/)

“Kefir’s tart and refreshing flavor is similar to a drinking-style yogurt, but it contains beneficial yeast as well as friendly ‘probiotic’ bacteria found in yogurt. The naturally occurring bacteria and yeast in kefir combine symbiotically to give superior health benefits when consumed regularly. It is loaded with valuable vitamins and minerals and contains easily digestible complete proteins.

For the lactose intolerant, kefir’s abundance of beneficial yeast and bacteria provide lactase, an enzyme which consumes most of the lactose left after the culturing process.”


What are the benefits of Kefir? (http://www.kefir.net/kefir-benefits/)

“Easily digested, it cleanses the intestines, provides beneficial bacteria and yeast, vitamins and minerals, and complete proteins. Because kefir is such a balanced and nourishing food, it contributes to a healthy immune system and has been used to help patients suffering from AIDS, chronic fatigue syndrome, herpes, and cancer. Its tranquilizing effect on the nervous system has benefited many who suffer from sleep disorders, depression, and ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder).

The regular use of kefir can help relieve all intestinal disorders, promote bowel movement, reduce flatulence and create a healthier digestive system. In addition, its cleansing effect on the whole body helps to establish a balanced inner ecosystem for optimum health and longevity.

Kefir can also help eliminate unhealthy food cravings by making the body more nourished and balanced. Its excellent nutritional content offers healing and health-maintenance benefits to people in every type of condition.”


“CulturesforHealth.com”

How to Video on CulturesforHealth.com (http://www.culturesforhealth.com/how-to-videos)

YouTube Videos from Cultures for Health (http://www.youtube.com/user/CulturesforHealth)

Information and supplies offered: starter cultures, how to, suppplies, books, gift certificates, recipes, YouTube videos, blogs, etc.

Free newsletters and eBooks (http://www.culturesforhealth.com/free-ebooks-fermented-cultured-foods)

Shipping information: US (http://www.culturesforhealth.com/flat-rate-shipping) - $3.99 flat rate shipping any where in the US; International shipping
(http://www.culturesforhealth.com/where-to-buy)

Products presented


Yogurt
Sourdough
Kefir (both dairy and non-dairy)
Kombucha
Cheese Making
Cultured Vegetables
Buttermilk
Cultured Soy
Seed Sprouting

[RunningDeer]

Last one, Music. http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smileys/writing1-smiley.gif

“Candida and the Quest for Eternal Youth,” by: Max Igan

This is also a repost. I ordered the “Candida Release” mentioned in the videos. I’ve been using “Zeolite” for about a year. Initially, I used it to eliminate toxins and radioactive materials, heavy metals, but it does a whole lot more:




"Clay is effective for many ailments. It will remove impurities including bacteria, fungi, parasites, chemicals, toxins and even help resolve viral infections.  It has been used extensively in the treatment of pain, open wounds, colitis, diarrhea, hemorrhoids, stomach ulcers, constipation and intestinal problems, acne, anemia, and a variety of other health issues. Just about everything unhealthy, everything impure, is irresistibly attracted to clay and becomes subject to immediate elimination."


Links for Zeolite: Video on main page. (http://www.etszeolite.com) & Benefits, Other Usage, etc (http://www.etszeolite.com/html/zeolite_usage.html)

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/zeolite2_zpscebd8e63.jpg (http://s1262.photobucket.com/user/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/media/zeolite2_zpscebd8e63.jpg.html)

Two threads on beneficial bacteria and microflora:

“My Holistic Medicine Cabinet (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?56870-My-Holistic-Medicine-Cabinet&p=647232&viewfull=1#post647232),” by WhiteFeather

“The gut of most disease... NOT what you think! (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43548-The-gut-of-most-disease...-NOT-what-you-think-&highlight=probiotics%2C+fermented%2C+cultured+food)” by Dawn


If you don’t have a lot of time, then part two is enough to get the main points.

Part Two - 12:00
b-EpmQi2kJs
Part One
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL-X4aMNzMY
Part Three
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHT7fN-6YwU
Part Four
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Lc-aW-zuCI

[music]

Really looking forward to doing this, Music. Thanks a lot. How long after rubbing the paste in and re-submerging will it be ready to eat?

As little as a week in warm weather! Taste them every few days. They don't need to be soft, you will know they're ready when the brine has a tang due to the acidification of the fermentation process. As the pH drops, the climate becomes conducive to the proliferation of different strains, so stopping fermentation too early means less different strains. Refrigerate after fermentation is to your liking to stop the process, just as you refrigerate a sourdough starter. The best taste for me is a balanced tang that is neither too salty or too acidic.

[Ellisa]

My effort in this area was to try and make my own yoghurt without using the packs and additives available at the supermarket. Whilst the 'supermarket' yoghurt tasted OK I wanted to try to make it properly. I couldn't because we are not allowed to buy fresh whole milk, and the fresh homogenised milk does not work as well. The same is true for the various soft cottage-type cheese I used to make.

I still make jams, pickles and chutneys, which I can guarantee are free from additives as I usually use fruit etc that is homegrown. I have just finished the jam making season with a batch of golden plum jam. the plums are from my neighbours trees. She is elderly and soon to be moving to a retirement village. I am sure the very first thing that happens is that the lovely productive tree will go!

[music]

Here is my finished Kimchi this afternoon.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k543/music432/kimchi_zpse86d61d2.jpg

Sauerkraut is great Paula, thank you and everyone for their input here. This is what community is all about. I make my kraut with crushed juniper berries and carroway seed, here is my kraut and my first kimchi. Paula, do you use a water rim crock?

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k543/music432/sauer_zpsc787b661.jpg

And this is next: New York style dill pickle squash and radish. I'm going to post a step by step for this later.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k543/music432/squash_zps5be7ada4.jpg

[onawah]

I've been having a hard time accessing young green coconuts from Thailand.
My local super market gets them in sometimes from Melissa's when I order them by the crate, but sometimes they are just not available.
I noticed that the local health food store carries unheated, pure coconut water in little plastic bottles in the refrigerated section, and I am thinking about trying to make kefir with that.
If it works, it would be a lot less labor intensive than buying the mature, brown husked coconuts, and hammering them open for the water contained therein.
(Although the really hard part is getting the meat out once the husk is cracked.
If I've bought the whole coconut, I am loathe to let the meat go to waste, but it can be a real chore to get it all out.)
I've made kefir now with both the young and the mature coconuts, and it's a great alternative to milk kefir, which I can't make now because I no longer have access to raw milk.
I used the coconut meat as well as the water with both types.
The meat from the mature coconuts was gritty as my blender isn't powerful enough to blend the meat into puree, but it was still tasty.
The meat from the young coconuts is like custard, so very easy to blend and quite wonderful.
It's a shame the young coconuts are still scarce; I think they've become a very popular item.
But my next experiment will be making kefir with the raw bottled coconut water.
My fizzy fruity water kefir has been turning out really well, and I'm about to make my third batch of fermented vegies.
I think I'll add some tomatoes this time.
I'm loving this thread!

[music]

It's one of the many food outrages that we aren't allowed access to raw milk. It can be bought as "bath milk", but of course I would only ever use it to bathe in because I am a law abiding citizen. In some countries, it is even illegal to drink raw milk straight from your own cow. You can have a bath in though, which often happens when you hand milk!

Onawah, let us know how the tomatoes go. Grape leaves (or oak) in the bottom of the crock may just harden the skins enough with the tannins. I assume you will use fairly firm, green tomatoes?

[genevieve]

I just ordered water kefir grains from Yemoos.com, which is an extremely informative website, answering probably every question ever asked about water kefir.

I ordered from them because of the way they wrote about the water kefir grains they offer--with respect and appreciation of them as a life form.

Thanks, music and everyone, for sharing your info.


Peace Love Joy & Harmony,
Genevieve

[WhiteFeather]

Kombucha would be a good addition here. You can make it at home or purchase it in your health food store. Kombucha is an Elixir from the Food Gods IMO. I synchroneously found out about Kombucha from Dolores Cannons website several years ago while viewing her site. Havent stopped drinking it since.

GT makes a delicious Kombucha with many tastey flavors. Its priced at around $4.00 a bottle if you could afford it. Its much cheaper to make at home though.
http://synergydrinks.com/index.php/products#enlightened-kombucha

Heres how to start at home. DIY Video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gcTmaNdp1U

[music]

Thanks Whitefeather, I had a Kombucha in another country but gave it away when I came home. Waiting for a friend's to calve now. Must remind her about it actually.

My partner was laughing, we just came home from a party where a fermentation ingredient swap took place. I got grape leaves for my dill pickle crock, and gave my friend some organic cabbage I'd sourced for his home crock. She was saying it was like "you got the goods man?" "Yeah, I'm holdin' what you got man?"

[RunningDeer]

Here is my finished Kimchi this afternoon.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k543/music432/kimchi_zpse86d61d2.jpg

Sauerkraut is great Paula, thank you and everyone for their input here. This is what community is all about. I make my kraut with crushed juniper berries and carroway seed, here is my kraut and my first kimchi. Paula, do you use a water rim crock?

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k543/music432/sauer_zpsc787b661.jpg

And this is next: New York style dill pickle squash and radish. I'm going to post a step by step for this later.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k543/music432/squash_zps5be7ada4.jpg

Hi Music,

Perty photos. Magazine worthy. My mouth is watering.


Paula, do you use a water rim crock?

Yes, I do. I sprung for a water rim, fermenting crock pot (http://www.harvestessentials.com/german-5-liter-fermenting-crock-pot.html).

Free shipping over $89. Total cost = $96. It was rated 4 1/2 stars out of 5, from 1674 reviews with super quick free shipping. It arrived in two day, maybe three tops.

Looking forward to your New York style dill pickle, squash and radish technique.

[Mercedes]

Love this thread, BIG THANKS! <3

[music]

Paula: Looking forward to your New York style dill pickle, squash and radish technique

Me too! I do it intuitively. I'm wanting these to have a touch of sweetness and will let my hand direct me where it will. Grape or oak leaves are one essential though, to maintain the integrity of the skin (crunch) through the introduction of tanins. I've made the dill pickles with small cucumbers for typical NY Jewish pickle taste, and will give this recipe at the same time. Night time here now though, just getting my sourdough sponge started - wholemeal spelt, and my starter is 170 odd years old, and at the height of its powers!

Oh, and thank you very much for the link to the crock, I am looking at getting one, and this is better than the ones I have found so far. Community struts its stuff yet again :) I use a straight sided series of crocks of different sizes with plates just wide enough to keep stuff submerged. Lets mold bloom though, which I don't mind overly, but some find the taste objectionable.

Also, I used Kale in my most recent Kimchi, and it worked very, very well. Kale is a superfood in my book!

[onawah]

I will just have to see what tomatoes are available.
I will let you know how it turns out.
I am using mason jars, not a crock.
And I'm using freshly juiced celery instead of salt.
I have TMJ and can't do a lot of chewing, so I chop the vegies pretty fine, though I won't do that with the tomatoes.
So my fermented vegies turn out kind of like a chunky salsa.


It's one of the many food outrages that we aren't allowed access to raw milk. It can be bought as "bath milk", but of course I would only ever use it to bathe in because I am a law abiding citizen. In some countries, it is even illegal to drink raw milk straight from your own cow. You can have a bath in though, which often happens when you hand milk!

Onawah, let us know how the tomatoes go. Grape leaves (or oak) in the bottom of the crock may just harden the skins enough with the tannins. I assume you will use fairly firm, green tomatoes?

[sigma6]

My effort in this area was to try and make my own yoghurt without using the packs and additives available at the supermarket. Whilst the 'supermarket' yoghurt tasted OK I wanted to try to make it properly. I couldn't because we are not allowed to buy fresh whole milk, and the fresh homogenised milk does not work as well. The same is true for the various soft cottage-type cheese I used to make.

I still make jams, pickles and chutneys, which I can guarantee are free from additives as I usually use fruit etc that is homegrown. I have just finished the jam making season with a batch of golden plum jam. the plums are from my neighbours trees. She is elderly and soon to be moving to a retirement village. I am sure the very first thing that happens is that the lovely productive tree will go!

Was going to say the same thing Ellisa, the quality of Kefir with store bought milk is a joke, and I think I may have even done something to my kefir because it started turning 'yellowy and hard' either that or it got contaminated with something else, I was thinking maybe cooking fats, (I fry a lot) I used to make kefir, mushroom tea, and carrots and cabbage. And never bothered using starters that's just commercial drivel. Veggies have their own naturally occurring bacterias and the quality of taste and proliferation of bacteria will be superior. Learn to do it the natural way... (theres nothing to it, put them in clean jars with water, wait 2 weeks) I don't add salt in my cabbage & carrots, as according to Donna Gates' simple approach in "Body Ecology Diet".

update: I think the quality of the fat in commercially produced milk is so emulsified that it not only doesn't form cream in milk but continues in the gut, I have read the particles are small enough to penetrate the gut before proper digestion and cause leaky gut syndrome. Thus scratch commercial milk off your list, I thought the Kefir would "fix it" by breaking it down and re-introducing healthy bacteria, (Kefir is pretty robust) I wonder if anyone else has noticed this? I tried it a few times with organic milk and WOW what a difference, rich, thick, creamy yogurty flavour, TWO different things, (DON'T DRINK STORE BOUGHT MILK!) I think I may have actually damaged my kefir! (poor little guys) And it took me so long to grow them into a healthy bunch too... now they look like they've been smoking Camel's for 20 years...

I have always wanted to try Kimchi, and never got around to it... thanks for this thread... some of these pictures are making me salivate ... mmmmm... keeper thread

[blufire]

I saw the words ‘fermentation recipe’ in the thread title and thought I would add my great granny’s moonshine recipe and then realized this was for probiotic enhancement . . . .of which granny’s moonshine would not do.

Great for a bunch of other ailments though ;)

I have been fermenting or pickling for as long back as I can remember and even have crocks and wooden ‘weights’ from my grandma.

[genevieve]

blufire--

Please do share your great granny's moonshine recipe!
If not on this thread, then on another one.

Peace Love Joy & Harmony,
Genevieve

[Swanette]

Thanks Music for this thread! I have made several different saurkrauts & pickles along with my water and milk kefirs for a couple of years now. They are just the basic recipes that most people have made. I am looking forward to making more varieties. My family loves it now and my sister has become an enthusiastic 'fermentor' too. lol

I love the pics of your kimchee and pickles! I think I'll try making them when summer is over for the best veggies available here :)

I don't have any new recipes yet but I'll add them here if I get them.

[music]

Dill squash, radish and sweet potato pickle. New York deli style!

Soak the whole baby squash and red radishes in brine (1 tblsp salt/cup or 4 tblsp salt/litre) overnight or 24 hours to soften skins.
Strain veges, reserve brine.
If "cruch" is required, line the bottom of crock with grape leaves, or oak leaves. The tanins will keep the potsides firm and crunchy.
Take 3 or 4 heads of dill (preferably flowering), chop, place in crock
Chop 2 or 3 HEADS (not cloves!) of garlic, chop, whack em in too, with a dozen or so peppercorns, and a good couple of pinches of yellow mustard seeds.
Return veges to crock, I have added sweet potato (yam) to get sweetness, and later on will add some rapadura sugar (whole, unmessed with sugar, not brown sugar, not "raw" sugar, just pure crystallised juice of sugar cane).

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k543/music432/pi1_zps57bef594.jpg

I also added some chopped horny African cucumber, I like seeds floating my brine, these will mostly disolve, though the rinds will remain crunchy. The cucumbers will tie the pickles into the deli tast I like.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k543/music432/pi2_zps331ca7e7.jpg

Add reserved brine, and put a plate or weight on top (glass, ceramic, stone, not metal, even stainless steel will rust in here!) to keep the veges submerged. Put lid on crock, check every day or so, push veges under brine, remove any mold.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k543/music432/pi3_zps70c2a94e.jpg

In a week or so, I'll add some sugar. These will take a while because they are large, and it is now getting cold where I am, so the microbial action will be slow. I will let these ferment until the brine has transformed to a sweet, low-key vinegar.

Yum

[Dawn]

Ohawah: I've made kefir now with both the young and the mature coconuts, and it's a great alternative to milk kefir, which I can't make now because I no longer have access to raw milk.

Kefir does really well in pasteurized milk, turning it into a healthy food. Of course, without the kefir culture pasteurized milk is so indigestible as to actually act as a poison. But after culturing with kefir it is changed entirely becoming health-filled, nutrition packed ... also easily digestible. Even though water kefir is 'nice' it does not contain the same micro-organisms and will not populate your digestive system with the same way critters

[music]

Ohawah: I've made kefir now with both the young and the mature coconuts, and it's a great alternative to milk kefir, which I can't make now because I no longer have access to raw milk.

Kefir does really well in pasteurized milk, turning it into a healthy food. Of course, without the kefir culture pasteurized milk is so indigestible as to actually act as a poison. But after culturing with kefir it is changed entirely becoming health-filled, nutrition packed ... also easily digestible. Even though water kefir is 'nice' it does not contain the same micro-organisms and will not populate your digestive system with the same way critters

Thanks Dawn, so good to have your input here, I have a great deal of love and respect for the you and things you have contributed to the Avalon community.

So, dill pickles, important step today - tasted them, needs a bit more garlic (I couldn't get enough organic garlic that day!), and I added the reserved excess brine from my last dill pickles which I had in the fridge. This = kick start, a starter culture, much needed in the cold weather. I also have 10 litres of child friendly kimchi I made the same day as the dill pickles (much reduced chilli), and this also received a kickstart today from my beautiful pink (red radish heavy) reserved brine from the Kimchi before last. Kids need probiotics, and I guess this calls for a recipe next time I have time - fruit Kimchi! My son is a walking endorsment of a healthy diet. He is four years old, not an ounce of fat on him, and 32 kg! Bright, intelligent, sensitive, fit, loving, coordinated (he helps me split wood with his own axe!) and totally himself - kids are our future, and I am working for our future by allowing my boy to be himself whilst basking in unconditional love. Life is beautiful - all is well!

Brine should never be thrown out, it is a great digestive tonic - drink a little before every meal, your body will love you for it, and you will love the way your body responds.

[soleil]

oooh im so excited to try out the recipes on this thread. thanks music and bcwd (for your posts/threads too)!

[onawah]

I'm a little bit puzzled by your last comments, Dawn.
Re if I'm using the same kefir grains in making my coconut kefir that I used when I was using milk as a base, you are saying it will be "nice" but will not contain the same beneficial organisms as the milk kefir, correct?
Can you go into more detail on this, and would you please site your source of info?
Can you provide any additional info as to why you think the pasteurized milk kefir would be superior to kefir made with young green coconuts?
Also, if I were to use pasteurized milk to make kefir with, how long would I let it sit out, without refrigeration, while the kefir grains are in it?

Thanks!



Ohawah: I've made kefir now with both the young and the mature coconuts, and it's a great alternative to milk kefir, which I can't make now because I no longer have access to raw milk.

Kefir does really well in pasteurized milk, turning it into a healthy food. Of course, without the kefir culture pasteurized milk is so indigestible as to actually act as a poison. But after culturing with kefir it is changed entirely becoming health-filled, nutrition packed ... also easily digestible. Even though water kefir is 'nice' it does not contain the same micro-organisms and will not populate your digestive system with the same way critters

[RunningDeer]

I'm a little bit puzzled by your last comments, Dawn.
Re if I'm using the same kefir grains in making my coconut kefir that I used when I was using milk as a base, you are saying it will be "nice" but will not contain the same beneficial organisms as the milk kefir, correct?
Can you go into more detail on this, and would you please site your source of info?
Can you provide any additional info as to why you think the pasteurized milk kefir would be superior to kefir made with young green coconuts?
Also, if I were to use pasteurized milk to make kefir with, how long would I let it sit out, without refrigeration, while the kefir grains are in it?

Thanks!

Hello onawah,

Although this article doesn't answer your specific questions, I think you'd be interested in it: "Amazing Healing Power of Kefir (http://www.orhaolam.com/uploads/KefirInShort.pdf)"

In case Dawn doesn't log on right away, I've add some links on coconut milk kefir (http://www.culturesforhealth.com/coconut-milk-kefir-recipe/)and a chat section for your specific questions (http://www.culturesforhealth.com/milk-kefir-grains.html#questions).

Some sample Q&A's:

Questions About Milk Kefir Grains
(http://www.culturesforhealth.com/milk-kefir-grains.html#questions)

Question: When using milk kefir grains with coconut milk, can it be unsweetened coconut milk that does not contain any sugar?

Answer: Ideally you'd want to use unsweetened coconut milk. Any additives have the potential to interact negatively with the kefir grains and potentially damage them. Unsweetened would be safest.


With coconut milk though you'll need to put them back in cow milk for 24 hours to revitalize for every few weeks they spend in cow milk.

Question: I rehydrated my kefir grains in cow milk and they came out great. I then switch to unsweetened organic coconut milk for two days and the grains no longer seem to be active, even after switching back to cow milk. Do you know why this could be? If the milk is unaffected after 24-36 hours are the grains no longer active? Thanks.

Answer: Kefir grains can take a few days to adjust to a new milk medium. For example, if you switch your kefir grains from cow to goat milk, it can take a few batches for them to adjust to the composition of the new milk and start working properly. Same thing happens if you go from pasteurize cow milk to raw cow milk and sometimes even different brands of milk (feed, etc. can vary from farm to farm). Different chemical compositions can mean an adjustment period of up to a few batches. So go ahead and put them back in coconut milk and give them a batch or two to adjust (maybe just the coconut milk that isn't kefiring in the meantime to cook or in a smoothie or something). They should perk up and start doing their thing in a few days. With coconut milk though you'll need to put them back in cow milk for 24 hours to revitalize for every few weeks they spend in cow milk.

[onawah]

Thanks Paula!
Those are great links.

I especially like this option:

Dairy Free Option: While using milk kefir krains is the most effective way to make coconut milk kefir, there is a truly dairy-free option. Add 1/4 cup water kefir (finished kefir, not the water kefir grains) to 2 to 4 cups of coconut milk. Cover loosely and allow to culture for 24 hours

That way, I won't have to be concerned about the kefir grains adjusting to the coconut.

I may buy some pasteurized organic milk and make kefir with that, and alternate that with the coconut kefir, though I really hate pasteurized dairy! :rant::yell::sick::twitch:

I've been reading about the benefits of coconut, and want to continue finding ways to incorporate it into my diet.

It's hard to get the young green coconuts from Thailand, so I bought a little container of raw coconut water at the local health food store ($3 for 8 ounces!!)
and some canned coconut cream. I put the kefir grains in the coconut water overnight, and will add the cream to it to make something similar to the kefir I was making with the young green coconuts. It's not a good, but similar, at least.

[music]

Onawah, where we live, health food stores, even some supermarkets have started selling the young coconuts with the green exocarp removed already. Not as good as when you get them in Thailand, but still the flesh in side is soft and tender, and a good heavy knife will break through the husk. The ones we get here come from Thailand, which is not too far away really, as the plane flies :)

[onawah]

I wish they would sell them here!

[music]

Updates on my two crocks. The Kimchi is bubbling nicely, I push it down every day with my (clean) fingers, as it is in a rather large jar, rather than a crock, so I can't weigh it down. You can get away with this kimchi, as long as you maintain it every day. Taste your fingers after doing this to gauge how it is going. Mine is still (but less) salty, but with lovely gingery tang, and an amazing "clean", sharp radish taste. This is going to be awaesome, the liquid is developing a nice pink colour. No sign of mold.

The squash and radish pickles are coming along slowly, these will take a fair while, the dill taste is nice, but I suspect the end of season grape leaves might not have enough tannin in them. I might have to put something else in, because the skins are a bit soft. Hmm, maybe some green tea. My local health food shop sells high quality balls of organic green tea called "Buddha's tears", and maybe I'll drop some of those in. Could make for an interesting taste.

Onawah, ask your local health food shop about the coconuts, and any friends who might be interested. The coconuts are exported from Thailand in a big way (Thailand is a fairly booming country these days), perhaps making shops aware of consumer desire would be all it takes?

[AriG]

It's one of the many food outrages that we aren't allowed access to raw milk. It can be bought as "bath milk", but of course I would only ever use it to bathe in because I am a law abiding citizen. In some countries, it is even illegal to drink raw milk straight from your own cow. You can have a bath in though, which often happens when you hand milk!

Onawah, let us know how the tomatoes go. Grape leaves (or oak) in the bottom of the crock may just harden the skins enough with the tannins. I assume you will use fairly firm, green tomatoes?

This is indeed a very useful thread. Thank you music.

I have just been diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis, although I am beginning to suspect the culprit is actually my pituitary. Since the symptoms of this condition are quite unbearable, I have really not had a choice but to use traditional medications to get this under control with the longer term plan to replace the levothyroxine and beta blockers with something more holistic.

As I continue to educate myself about this condition, I have read that as this is likely auto-immune and that the root cause is probably the gut. The bacterium suspected is heliobacter pylori. One of the "claimed" causes of h pylori imbalance is raw milk. Incidentally, I am also a hobbyist goat farmer and although I consume very little of the actual raw goat's milk, it is not uncommon for me to be covered in placenta and blood when I assist in deliveries. Although my animals are tested annually for brucellosis ( distantly related to h pylori in clinical approaches) I can't help but wonder if it is truly safe to consume raw milk products, as good as they are.

In addition to the above concern, it is highly recommended that anyone with a thyroid related condition abstain from cruciferous vegetables such as the one's mentioned in this thread. By chance, does the fermentation process reduce the probability inflammation in thyroid compromised people? Not unlike the the acceptability of eating fermented soy versus raw soy ( not a good choice for anyone's health, but a top commodity push by the US).

Any insight is greatly appreciated. thank you.

[RunningDeer]

In case folks aren’t aware of this:

"If you are culturing multiple products (e.g. different varieties of yogurt, buttermilk, kefir, Kombucha, etc.) be sure to keep a distance of at least several feet between cultures so they don’t cross-contaminate (http://www.culturesforhealth.com/water-kefir) each other.  Over time, cross-contamination will weaken the cultures."


Veggies have their own naturally occurring bacterias and the quality of taste and proliferation of bacteria will be superior. Learn to do it the natural way... (theres nothing to it, put them in clean jars with water, wait 2 weeks) I don't add salt in my cabbage & carrots, as according to Donna Gates' simple approach in "Body Ecology Diet".
Thanks, sigma6, I’ll check out Donna Gates’ “Body Ecology Diet”.

Question: Is distilled water okay for your veggie method? Why I ask this is because I’ve read not to use distilled water for water kefir.

“...Well water or spring water is best due to higher mineral content. We do not recommend using water filtered through a carbon activated filter (e.g. Britta) (http://www.culturesforhealth.com/water-kefir) or reverse osmosis water due to the depleted mineral levels...”

“Non or low-chlorinated, high mineral water is preferable. Minerals help your grains to function and properly metabolize the sugars. Filtered and distilled water are low in minerals (http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Authentic-Water-Kefir/) and usually don't work well... “


Thus scratch commercial milk off your list, I thought the Kefir would "fix it" by breaking it down and re-introducing healthy bacteria, (Kefir is pretty robust) I wonder if anyone else has noticed this?

I tried it a few times with organic milk and WOW what a difference, rich, thick, creamy yogurty flavour, TWO different things, (DON'T DRINK STORE BOUGHT MILK!) I think I may have actually damaged my kefir! (poor little guys) And it took me so long to grow them into a healthy bunch too... now they look like they've been smoking Camel's for 20 years...
I’m not disagreeing with what you shared. Just passing along information for those poor Camel smoking kefir grains and for other interested readers:

Questions about milk kefir grains: (http://www.culturesforhealth.com/milk-kefir-frequently-asked-questions-faq)

Q.  Can I use UHT (ultra-high temperature aka ultra-pasteurized) milk to make kefir?
A.  We do not recommend using UHT milk with any of our starter cultures (including yogurt, buttermilk, kefir and cheese starters).  The process by which UHT milk is pasteurized leaves the milk essentially dead for purposes of culturing and therefore you are likely to have less than satisfactory results when using it to make cultured foods.

Q.  Can I use non-homogenized milk to make kefir?
A.  Yes.  Non-homogenized milk makes wonderful kefir.  The only difference you will see when making kefir with non-homogenized milk is that the cream will rise to the top of the kefir just like it does with the milk so the top layer of the kefir will be more yellow in color.

Q.  Can milk kefir grains be used with raw milk?
A. Yes, milk kefir grains can be used with raw milk.  The method/instructions are the same regardless of whether your milk is pasteurized or raw.

Continued on another link: (http://www.culturesforhealth.com/milk-kefir-grains.html#questions)

Q. Do I need to rinse the grains off between batches?
A. No. There is no need to rinse the grains unless they stop making kefir effectively (which can sometimes be attributed to a build up of yeast on the grains).  If it becomes necessary to rinse the grains, use filtered water if possible to avoid chemical exposure.

Q.  I've been making kefir for awhile but the taste of my kefir seems to have changed?  Why?
A. The taste and texture of kefir depends on several factors including time the kefir cultures, the temperature of your home and the ratio of kefir grains to milk.  If the temperature of your home has changed (e.g. changing of the seasons), you may need to adjust the amount of time you allow the kefir to culture.  If your kefir grains have multiplied, then you may find the taste and texture of the kefir change.  To remedy this problem, simply remove a portion of the kefir grains and either start a second batch of kefir or find them a good home.

[music]

It's one of the many food outrages that we aren't allowed access to raw milk. It can be bought as "bath milk", but of course I would only ever use it to bathe in because I am a law abiding citizen. In some countries, it is even illegal to drink raw milk straight from your own cow. You can have a bath in though, which often happens when you hand milk!

Onawah, let us know how the tomatoes go. Grape leaves (or oak) in the bottom of the crock may just harden the skins enough with the tannins. I assume you will use fairly firm, green tomatoes?

This is indeed a very useful thread. Thank you music.

I have just been diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis, although I am beginning to suspect the culprit is actually my pituitary. Since the symptoms of this condition are quite unbearable, I have really not had a choice but to use traditional medications to get this under control with the longer term plan to replace the levothyroxine and beta blockers with something more holistic.

As I continue to educate myself about this condition, I have read that as this is likely auto-immune and that the root cause is probably the gut. The bacterium suspected is heliobacter pylori. One of the "claimed" causes of h pylori imbalance is raw milk. Incidentally, I am also a hobbyist goat farmer and although I consume very little of the actual raw goat's milk, it is not uncommon for me to be covered in placenta and blood when I assist in deliveries. Although my animals are tested annually for brucellosis ( distantly related to h pylori in clinical approaches) I can't help but wonder if it is truly safe to consume raw milk products, as good as they are.

In addition to the above concern, it is highly recommended that anyone with a thyroid related condition abstain from cruciferous vegetables such as the one's mentioned in this thread. By chance, does the fermentation process reduce the probability inflammation in thyroid compromised people? Not unlike the the acceptability of eating fermented soy versus raw soy ( not a good choice for anyone's health, but a top commodity push by the US).

Any insight is greatly appreciated. thank you.

I will give you some links, but first, bear in mind that an acid body environment is conducive to proliferation of detrimental gastro-intestinal bacteria, while a neutral or slightly alkaline environent favours what we call pro-biotics - the "good guys".

H. pylori and pro-biotics (http://jn.nutrition.org/content/137/3/812S.full)


A literature search of the MEDLINE database (1966–2006) has been performed selecting all in vitro, animal, and human fully published English-language studies dealing with H. pylori and probiotics. Probiotics had an in vitro inhibitory effect on H. pylori. Animal studies demonstrated that probiotic treatment is effective in reducing H. pylori–associated gastric inflammation. Seven of 9 human studies showed an improvement of H. pylori gastritis and decrease in H. pylori density after administration of probiotics.

And these studies (mentioned above) would not have taken diet into account, and they deal with pills or other dosage systems of a few strains of pro-biotic. Some fermeted foods contain upwards of 200 species of pro-biotics, rather than the two or three we normally think of. Think of fermented food as "broad spectrum pro-biotics".

This (http://www.naturalnews.com/036785_superfoods_probiotics_fermented_foods.html) link deals with preventing auto-immune conditions with pro-biotics. Quoted below.


Good nutrition includes eating fresh organic foods, and also means getting a healthy supply of "friendly" bacteria, or probiotics, to maintain balance in the intestinal tract. Although you could take a digestive supplement, a better choice is to eat selectively fermented foods that supply tons of friendly microflora to promote better gastrointestinal health. Some people turn their noses up at the thought of eating fermented foods. However, you may be surprised to learn that fermented foods come from every food group, including water; and, offer a wide range of flavor profiles to suit everyone's tastes.

Proper digestion and gut health nourishes the body's systems, fostering physical integrity of the intestinal lining. When healthy flora is out of balance, unfriendly bacteria and fungi like candida grow rampantly -- often becoming systemic and compromising the immune system. The result is autoimmune and inflammatory disease such as MS, Lupus, Crohn's, allergies, fibromyalgia, rheumatoid arthritis, eczema, IBD and other degenerative diseases. Poor gut health also produces symptoms of chronic diarrhea, flatulence, depression and ADHD. Eating fermented foods seals the lining of the gut, restoring its proper function.

Not all fermented foods taste like sauerkraut. Read about the variety of tasty foods that are actually good for you.

Vegetables - Fermented vegetables such as sauerkraut, capers, artichokes, mushrooms, peppers, olives and the Korean delicacy kim chi are prepared by pickling. Modern processing methods don't include beneficial bacteria; however, specialty stores still make these foods in the traditional manner.

Dairy - Yogurt, kefir, creme fraiche, and certain aged cheeses are fermented with various live cultures to enhance nutritional value. Those made from goat, sheep or raw cow's milk supply the best nutrients with the least amount of processing. Organic cow's milk is also a good choice.

Legumes - Popular fermented products made primarily from soy beans have been part of native diets for over 5,000 years. The Japanese eat natto, which is exceptionally high in protein and vitamin K2. Tempe originated in Indonesia and is made from grains and legumes. Miso is fermented soy paste and comes in several strengths. Red miso is often used as a soup base, where light miso is milder and used to flavor foods. Both are high in sodium and should be used sparingly. Soy sauce, or Shoyu, originated in China and is considered one of the oldest-known fermented condiments. Tofuyo, a fermented tofu product is known as the "cheese of the east," and originates from Okinawa. Fermented for three to four months, it is prized for its smooth texture, mild flavor, and medicinal qualities.

Sprouted grains and seeds - Grains and seeds can be sprouted and then fermented to provide beneficial bacteria for breads. Sourdough rye or sprouted wheat breads are more digestible than ordinary breads and may prevent allergic or gluten reactions.

Fruits - Umeboshi plums are a small, tangy, pickled plums originating in Japan that promote better digestion. Fermented for six months, they are considered the "king of alkaline foods." They provide probiotics and potent antibiotic properties.

Water and Juices - Water, coconut milk and fruit juices can be fermented with special kefir starter grains to create tangy, fizzy, delicious drinks that provide friendly bacteria to support the GI tract.

Fish - Nam Pla, or Thai fish sauce, is fermented for many months and used as a popular flavoring and dipping sauce in Asia. The long fermentation process imparts a nutty, cheesy flavor.

Still don't think you'll like fermented foods? Imagine the tangy-sweet, refreshing taste of aged apple cider or a fizzy coconut milk shake and then reconsider whether you're going to add fermented foods to your diet.



PDF of acid/alkaline forming foods (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=acid%20alkaline%20forming%20foods%20list&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CDcQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fikifit.com.au%2FLiteratureRetrieve.aspx%3FID%3D44331&ei=mLuLUe2mEMaViQe6iYD4BA&usg=AFQjCNGNvz2zq7CRKKGL9Mbml7L6GnY_Fw&bvm=bv.46226182,d.aGc)

Acid/alkaline forming foods (http://www.cancer.ultimatehealthsolutions.com.au/acid_alkaline.html)

Be careful with your health, and look into things you are told about your health on the internet yourself. I am not a naturopath, but I am a Reflexologist and energy worker who also knows a bit about herbs and food as medicine. I would suggest you read up, and see a good naturopath, preferrably on recommendation of a friend who has used them.

Be careful about the claims of conventional medicine, which considers symptoms, rather than causes, looks at things in isolation (ie not wholistically), and which can sadly be agenda driven to compromise human health in some cases.

Be

[blufire]

This is indeed a very useful thread. Thank you music.

I have just been diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis, although I am beginning to suspect the culprit is actually my pituitary. Since the symptoms of this condition are quite unbearable, I have really not had a choice but to use traditional medications to get this under control with the longer term plan to replace the levothyroxine and beta blockers with something more holistic.

As I continue to educate myself about this condition, I have read that as this is likely auto-immune and that the root cause is probably the gut. The bacterium suspected is heliobacter pylori. One of the "claimed" causes of h pylori imbalance is raw milk. Incidentally, I am also a hobbyist goat farmer and although I consume very little of the actual raw goat's milk, it is not uncommon for me to be covered in placenta and blood when I assist in deliveries. Although my animals are tested annually for brucellosis ( distantly related to h pylori in clinical approaches) I can't help but wonder if it is truly safe to consume raw milk products, as good as they are.

In addition to the above concern, it is highly recommended that anyone with a thyroid related condition abstain from cruciferous vegetables such as the one's mentioned in this thread. By chance, does the fermentation process reduce the probability inflammation in thyroid compromised people? Not unlike the the acceptability of eating fermented soy versus raw soy ( not a good choice for anyone's health, but a top commodity push by the US).

Any insight is greatly appreciated. thank you.

AriG . . I have raised both cows and goats and not only have I drunk the milk for years I raised my children on raw milk and raw milk products.

Regarding Hashimoto’s thyroiditis I would suggest you do a bit more research as I believe it is not the malfunction of your thyroid but of your immune system which then has overtaxed your endocrine system, of which your thyroid is one of the glands in the endocrine system. Your thyroid is ‘inflamed’ by trying to regulate all the hormones that have been thrown off balance by your immune system. So taking thyroid drugs (levothyroxine or synthroid) is simply addressing the ‘symptoms’ of the illness and not the cause of the illness . . . . your immune system (specifically lymphatic)

[onawah]

My current batch of fermented vegies is doing nicely, all bubbly and gassy at this stage.
I chopped the tomatoes to give the whole a sweeter taste, and next time I think I will add corn and zucchini, and omit the cabbage for a more salsa-like flavor.

AriG, you might want to check out Royal Peruvian Maca, which many women are using now for thyroid disorders & pre and post menopausal symptoms.
See the article at http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/viana-muller-herbs.htm
Hypothyroid and Hyperthyroid are two different things, but the Maca can work for both, in that it can help to balance and rejuvenate the endocrine system.
(I think it is not recommended for women who have had hysterectomies, however, though that may vary from case to case.)

I've been taking a heaping tablespoon in my smoothies daily for about 10 years now, and if I run out, I really feel the difference in my energy levels.
About 14 years ago, I was diagnosed by an alternatively oriented Integrative Medicine doctor as hypothyroid.
My adrenals were exhausted and my other hormone levels were all out of whack.
Plus I was starting menopause, having hot flashes, mood swings, etc.
I started taking Armour Thyroid, and Maca around the same time. (I learned about Maca from some women friends who were taking it).
When I went back to see the doctor, he was amazed at how well I was doing.
In his experience, the Armour Thyroid alone would not have made that much difference.
I told him about the Maca, and the next time I saw him, he said he had researched it and was recommending it to other patients.

I saw a Naturopath a couple of years ago who did tests to determine my hormone levels, and my adrenals were still low, so she formulated a hormone cream for me that has been helping a lot too.
Conventional medicine doesn't seem to have a good handle on treating the endocrine system.
I would recommend an Integrative Medicine doctor or Naturopath.

I buy Navitas Maca at Vitacost, where the prices are a lot lower than health food stores.
Most women I know who use it just started out taking a small amount, a teaspoon or less per day, and then more or less take it according to how much feels right.

( It's good for men too, and acts for them as a kind of natural Viagra! :lol: :eyebrows:)

Well, this is off topic, but hopefully will be useful info, in any case. :focus:
Now that I am learning more about fermented and cultured foods too, I feel like I am getting my second wind, and that's a welcome sensation at 64 years of age!





This is indeed a very useful thread. Thank you music.

I have just been diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis, although I am beginning to suspect the culprit is actually my pituitary. Since the symptoms of this condition are quite unbearable, I have really not had a choice but to use traditional medications to get this under control with the longer term plan to replace the levothyroxine and beta blockers with something more holistic.

As I continue to educate myself about this condition, I have read that as this is likely auto-immune and that the root cause is probably the gut. The bacterium suspected is heliobacter pylori. One of the "claimed" causes of h pylori imbalance is raw milk. Incidentally, I am also a hobbyist goat farmer and although I consume very little of the actual raw goat's milk, it is not uncommon for me to be covered in placenta and blood when I assist in deliveries. Although my animals are tested annually for brucellosis ( distantly related to h pylori in clinical approaches) I can't help but wonder if it is truly safe to consume raw milk products, as good as they are.

In addition to the above concern, it is highly recommended that anyone with a thyroid related condition abstain from cruciferous vegetables such as the one's mentioned in this thread. By chance, does the fermentation process reduce the probability inflammation in thyroid compromised people? Not unlike the the acceptability of eating fermented soy versus raw soy ( not a good choice for anyone's health, but a top commodity push by the US).

Any insight is greatly appreciated. thank you.

AriG . . I have raised both cows and goats and not only have I drunk the milk for years I raised my children on raw milk and raw milk products.

Regarding Hashimoto’s thyroiditis I would suggest you do a bit more research as I believe it is not the malfunction of your thyroid but of your immune system which then has overtaxed your endocrine system, of which your thyroid is one of the glands in the endocrine system. Your thyroid is ‘inflamed’ by trying to regulate all the hormones that have been thrown off balance by your immune system. So taking thyroid drugs (levothyroxine or synthroid) is simply addressing the ‘symptoms’ of the illness and not the cause of the illness . . . . your immune system (specifically lymphatic)

[onawah]

I just saw this on Facebook:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/485409_10151564941018718_1628020751_n.jpg


We can match the entire blood volume perfectly by drinking a blend of 55% coconut water (matches the plasma) and 45% green juice (chlorophyll matches hemoglobin). One of most powerful ways to cleanse the blood!


From the Wellness Uncovered Health Forum
https://www.facebook.com/wellnessuncovered

So I'm still wondering how coconut kefir made with young green coconuts compares to kefir made with organic pasteurized milk.. I bought a half gallon today of the latter and am going to make kefir with it, then I'm going to make another batch of kefir with the young green coconuts I just got. I will alternate them each day in my morning smoothie and see if I feel any difference.
I know that pasteurized milk is acidic and has lots of other things wrong with it (even the organic) since it's been heat treated, while I've never heard anything bad about fresh coconut milk.
But the reason Dawn said that kefir made even with pasteurized milk is better than kefir made with coconut milk must have something to do with the way the kefir acts in both mediums.
The kefir grains I am using are the same ones I used to make kefir with when I was making raw milk kefir.
I'm hoping I can alternate making coconut kefir and milk kefir with the same grains, though next time I am going to make water kefir with them first, then use that as the culture for the coconut kefir, instead of putting the grains directly into the coconut milk, which reportedly will be easier on the grains.
I have never had any water kefir grains, if they are different, and I'm still confused about this, as different sources seem to say different things about that.
If there are different kinds of kefir grains, what are the differences? Do they come from different sources?
(Kefir grains for milk kefir, as I understand it, are grown in sheep guts! )
Are water kefir grains created differently?

I will PM Dawn and ask her if I may quote here any answer she may have to these questions, or if she will post it here herself.

[music]

Bottled my two crocks today. The kimchi was bubbling nicely, sweet from the sweet potatoes (which were soft and digestable), gingerery and slightly lemon tasting. good for kids. I took a bit a put in a seperate smaller jar with a little honey disolved in hot water. I waited for the honey-water to cool, then added it to the jar. I 'll leave it out to ferment a little longer, to tie the honey taste into the kimchi.

A few days ago, I added some Buddha's tears (green tea) to up the tannin, and a little rapadura sugar. Today, I bottled it, the tannins were sufficient to toughen the squashes and radishes enough to slice, and the sweet potato was nice and crunchy but digestable. In the jars, I added some mustard seeds, a little red wine vinegar, a little apple cider vinegar, two table spoons of rapadura sugar, then topped the bulk up with the crock liquid. I had to pull this early, because the lack of sufficient tannin at the start was making the squashes implode! The little touch of vinegar was to get the tast I wanted.

Sweet dill squash and radish pickle (left), and non-spicy kimchi (right)

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k543/music432/pick_zpsad452bcb.jpg

On the go now is sauerkraut, made as follows:
1 large green cabbage, shredded.
2 apples, diced, skin on
Dozen or so crushed juniper berries
Carroway seed, mustard seed, salt (about 2-3 tablespoons)

Mix all ingredients in a bowl. Put into crock in shallow layers, sprinkling a little salt on each layer. Push each layer down with your fists - hard! By the time you are tamping down the last layer, the salt will already have drawn enough liquid out of the cabbage to cover it. Push down as hard as you can, and place a plate or whatever over the cabbage so the cabbage liquid rises over it. Weigh this down with something like a jar of water, a clean river stone (scrubbed and bioled, probably a few times if they are "green"), or whatever isn't metal.

Talking about the corrosive effect of the fermentation process on metal, I rub coconut oil on the threads of my Kilner jar lids to inhibit rust. This makes them easier to open.

[genevieve]

onawah--

To learn more about water kefir grains, go to yemoos.com and (I believe) all your questions re water kefir will be answered. Excellent site.


Peace Love Joy & Harmony,
Genevieve

[onawah]

Thanks Genevieve. Have you purchased milk kefir and/or water kefir grains from yemoos.com?
I'm looking for a good source, and I've heard the sources can vary a lot in quality and dependability.

[Nickolai]

Hello, there, everyone!

Thanks for the nice postings that made me move to fermentation.
After reading the posts and watching the beautiful and delicious pictures I pushed myself to experiment.
However I have a question. What is the mold? The only thing I can see is the bubbles coming from the vegetables. There are some bubles forming at the top of the water but not many.
I have already ordered the fermentation pot..On the express usps way to me!

So thanks a lot!

Waiting for your kind comments and suggestions!

Nickolai

[music]

Hello, there, everyone!

Thanks for the nice postings that made me move to fermentation.
After reading the posts and watching the beautiful and delicious pictures I pushed myself to experiment.
However I have a question. What is the mold? The only thing I can see is the bubbles coming from the vegetables. There are some bubles forming at the top of the water but not many.
I have already ordered the fermentation pot..On the express usps way to me!

So thanks a lot!

Waiting for your kind comments and suggestions!

Nickolai

Hi Nickolai, you may have little trouble with mold in Saint-Petersburg. I am winter now where I am, and there is none. It is a primitive fungal lifeform that likes moist and warm conditions. It makes a thin, furry coating over things, and you can smell the spores in the air. Anyway, think of the mold as a bloom, remove any that comes, as much as you can.

The bubbles are natural, and a good sign! Fermentation is preceding nicely :)

[music]

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k543/music432/ferm3_zps6756b895.jpg

Above are three of my four latest ferments. I no longer use rice flour or fish sauce in my kimchi. The kimchi on the left includes red cabbage and snow peas, and some fairly hot whole chillies. I also used yellow carrot instead of sweet potato. Pretty much the same recipe and procedure I gave earlier in this thread.

Ditto the pink sauerkraut on the right of the photo. Same procedure, except the ingredients are 1 whole green cabbage, ½ a red cabbage, 24 crushed juniper berries, and 2 pink lady apples, chopped finely.

Be warned, pink cabbage makes things go softer quicker, so I bottled both these earlier than i normally would have, to retain the crunchy integrity of the veges, and to ensure they will not spoil in the jar before we get to enjoy them.

In the middle, we have a new recipe for me. I love sour beets, and I have high hopes for this concoction:

Fermented Beets with Orange and Ginger

This recipe is inspired by rosl, a Jewish specialty from the Ukraine - pickled beets in brine. The sweet, spicy beets are seasoned with orange zest and mustard seeds, and I will ferment mine longer until the brine becomes a sweet vinegar. Makes about a litre (a quart).

Ingredients

4 or 5 medium beets, peeled and sliced into ⅛"-thick rounds
1 tsp. brown mustard seeds
1 tsp. whole allspice berries
1 tsp. whole black peppercorns
1 tsp. whole cloves
2 sticks cinnamon
1" piece ginger, peeled and cut into matchsticks
Peel of 1 orange, cut off in wide strips
2 tbsp. starter culture (whey, or juice from a previous ferment is what I prefer)
2 tbsp. honey
Filtered water
Himalayan or sea salt, to taste for brine.

Method

Bring a pot of salted water (brine - 3 to 4 tbsp salt/litre of pure water) to a boil, and add beets; cook until just tender, about 3 minutes. Drain beets, reserving the brine (now a beautiful ruby red!), and transfer to a bowl of ice water to chill and stop cooking. Drain and place beets in a sterilized 1 L/qt. glass jar along with mustard seeds, allspice berries, peppercorns, cloves, cinnamon, ginger, and orange peel. Allow the reserved brine to cool to lukewarm. In a bowl, stir together starter, honey, and a little of the brine; pour over beets until covered, topping up as necessary with the reserved liquid. Use a glass, stone or ceramic weight to keep the beets submerged. Close lid of jar, but allow for air to enter. Pour remaining brine into jars for later use. I used mine with some chicken stock as the base of a beef and lentil casserole.

Drape a large kitchen towel over the jar, and let sit at room temperature (ideally 70°–75°) until beets have fermented to your taste, about 1 week would be the minimum. This is a new recipe for me, though I have adapted it somewhat to my tastes, which will also mean I let them ferment longer until the brine has fully turned to vinegar.

I also started a sweet radish and carrot ferment today. More on that tomorrow, and since I have now perfected my sourdough bread so it is perfect every time, I should give that recipe sometime too!

[Connecting with Sauce]

We ferment quite a bit...

Milk with without kefir grains
Water with sugar and water kefir grains
Kombucha tea - black+Green tea AND Green+Nettle (my wife mainly drinks this)
Kvass - which I didn't like at first but had a glass last night in front of the garden fire..
And we have cold Russian soup with Kvass which is lovely..

And I ferment my own urine :D ... and I just did a fermented urine enema on my right side and used my biocomfort massager on my stomach and front... feel great... but I do like to take the piss (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1793-Taking-the-piss-Your-own-best-medicine...&)

Cabbage is also fermented in our household and cabbage has a WONDER DNA repairer Yttrium within it (ALSO in Turmeric) they both have boron within them so...

[music]

CWS, try the kombucha made with elderflower, peppermint and chamomile tea, with a bit of juice of ginger bug added.

Ginger Bug

Every day, add to a jar 2 Tbsp each of grated ginger, raw or rapadura sugar, and flitered (or rain) water. By day four, you should see large clear bubbles clinging to the ginger. Leave it another four days (adding stuff all the while) then pop it in the fridge.

[Bubu]

Hi there,

I have some questions.

It’s been said that kefir grains needs to adjust with different medium e.g. raw milk to coconut milk etc.
How long will it take for the adjustment to take and how will I know that the grains are still alive?
Is there a risk of kefir die out during the transition?
Have anyone tried mixing two mediums to make it easier for kefir grains to adjust?
What is the difference between kimchi and kambucha and sauerkraut in terms of nutritional benefit?

Thanks,


Yes I have read from a number of links that young coconut water is used as dextrose during world war 2.

Also you can read in this link about the benefits of sea water.

http://www.truthquest2.com/oceanplasma.htm

http://www.oceanplasma.org/

[music]

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k543/music432/beer_zpse222e11f.jpg

Hawthorn berry, damiana, elderflower and hop beer

Makes 1 gallon (4 litres), this beer utilises medicinal and magical herbs, and was prepared with the conscious intent to nourish body and spirit. Place the energy of good, conscious awareness in all food and drink you prepare. Cook with love.

Take ½ ounce (bout 14 gm) of dry herb of hawthorn berry, damiana, elderflower and hops. Boil a quarter of the liquid water in a pot, add the herb, reduce to 150 F (65 C) and heat for half an hour or so. While this has started, take the rest of the liquid and add a pound and a bit (0.5 kg) of liquid malted barley, bring up to the same temperature and heat for 90 mins. When the herb are ready, strain them, and add the strained liquid to the malt mix as it continues cooking.

Allow to cool to about 70 F, then add a pound or so (0.5 kg) of rapadura or raw sugar, and stir until sugar is dissolved. Allow the mixture to cool to lukewarm, then decant to your fermenting vessel. You can use one with an airlock, but there really is no need if you are careful with cleanliness. I use for this beer a large glass jar. I remove the rubber seal, so the glass lid contacts the rim enough to stop too much getting in, but also allows the CO2 out. I then cover this with a teatowel, and put near the fire (it’s winter here now). When in the vessel, and while still warm, take some of the strained liquid from a ginger bug (see post above). From your ginger bug jar in the fridge, put a spoon all the way to the bottom of the jar, where you will see a white sediment. This is a mixture of spent and living yeast cells. Take some of this, some ginger root, and some liquid and put them in a glass with lukewarm boiled water. Mix, then strain into the decanting vessel. Give the mix a stir, then close up.

As you see from the photo, fermentation has begun in my beer after only 12 hours. The ginger bug starter is not even necessary – the ginger bug fermented using wild yeasts in the air of my home (they are all around us), and the beer would ferment using these too. The ginger bug starter merely makes it happen sooner, and adds a bit of spice to the beer too.

Fermentation should cease sometime between 1 and 2 weeks. Prime a small bottle with 3 g, a large bottle with 5 g of sugar, decant and cap. Ready to enjoy from 2 weeks, but age will improve.

@nature: Hi, I am not an expert on kefir, though I once had some :) The actual nutritional benefit of fermented produce depends on the ingredients, so while a sauerkraut has one (or sometimes more) vegetable ingredients, kimchi has many. The benefits of what are in the mix are intensified by fermentation through enzymes produced during the process which "open up" the nutrition of the foods, as well as transmuting them into more easily digestible forms for us. On top of this, there are the strains of bacteria formed. Ferment foods long enough so the salt has been transformed to "vinegar" and there will be more different strains of bacteria, there won't be a lot of salt, and the acidic medium produced, like apple cider vinegar, will work within the body to de-acidify it, and so produce an environment more conducive to good health, and less conducive to illness and disease.

So, nutritionally, kimchi, with more ingredients, is a winner, but healthwise, a long fermented sauerkraut wins over a short fermented kimchi. With the kombucha, we have the opportunity to make it with medicinal or even magical herbs, rather than just black tea. People who complain about the sugar of kombucha (nutritionists who know less than they think the know for example), fail to recognise that the sugar in kombucha or a ginger bug is not for us - it is for the yeasts and bacteria to feed on. They eat the sugar, and so it is gone (if fermented long enough). And, if we use rapadura sugar (evaporated cane juice with no processing), then there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the sugar unless we make gluttons of ourselves on it. But then, that is true of any food :)

[MorningSong]

Hey folks! Great thread|

I do a bit of fermenting, too, and thought I'd share this cool site as well:

http://www.culturedfoodlife.com/

There are lots of ideas and recipes to devour! Buon appetito!

[music]

Fermented Lemon Barley Water

Sprout some organic barley and then ferment it in the dark for two days in a jar topped up with clean water that can breathe but that is closed to dust. Reserve the fermented liquid, then boil the barley for 20 mins. Strain the liquid into a bowl, then add lemon and honey and stir in. When it has reached room temperature, add the reserved fermented liquid. Keep in the fridge, take a few tablespoons out of the bottle in the fridge and bring to room temperature, add warm (not hot) water, and drink this mix often during the day.

The liquid may also be fermented a second time when complete, put in a jar covered with muslin or other cloth and leave for a few days. to ensure lactobacillic fermentation the second time, rather than wild yeast fermentation, you may add a little whey.

http://s16.postimg.org/bh5aj2mf9/barley.jpg

[GreenGuy]

With the kombucha, we have the opportunity to make it with medicinal or even magical herbs, rather than just black tea.

I've been brewing kombucha for nearly 30 years. In fact my father was one of the first to bring this culture to the United States. What you've said about it is good, however it requires clarification. Kombucha is fermented tea by definition. Using other herbs in the primary fermentation crock risks weakening or contaminating the culture. While it's true that kombucha can be made with certain herbs other than tea (yerba mate or even coffee), the primary brew should be made with tea. The best kombucha is made using a secondary fermentation in bottles; it's at this time that various herbs, fruits etc. may be added.

Kombucha is one of the healthiest and easiest health foods to make at home, and it's very cheap to make. It has been around for thousands of years. All you need is water, tea, sugar and a culture (known as a pellicle or SCOBY - symbiotic community or bacteria and yeasts). In a pinch you can buy a bottle of commercial kombucha and grow a culture from it, but this takes time. A little search on the internet or in your own community can usually turn up someone willing to share their culture, as the pellicles constantly grow and multiply.

[enfoldedblue]

With the kombucha, we have the opportunity to make it with medicinal or even magical herbs, rather than just black tea.

I've been brewing kombucha for nearly 30 years. In fact my father was one of the first to bring this culture to the United States. What you've said about it is good, however it requires clarification. Kombucha is fermented tea by definition. Using other herbs in the primary fermentation crock risks weakening or contaminating the culture. While it's true that kombucha can be made with certain herbs other than tea (yerba mate or even coffee), the primary brew should be made with tea. The best kombucha is made using a secondary fermentation in bottles; it's at this time that various herbs, fruits etc. may be added.

Kombucha is one of the healthiest and easiest health foods to make at home, and it's very cheap to make. It has been around for thousands of years. All you need is water, tea, sugar and a culture (known as a pellicle or SCOBY - symbiotic community or bacteria and yeasts). In a pinch you can buy a bottle of commercial kombucha and grow a culture from it, but this takes time. A little search on the internet or in your own community can usually turn up someone willing to share their culture, as the pellicles constantly grow and multiply.

Yes, thanks GreeGuy, that is true. Our Kombucha does very well on half/half organic rooibos/organic green or gunpowder tea. Every couple of brews we'll add some herbs, but also to the secondary ferment as you say too :) Normally some ginger goes well, or a concentrate made from some herbs. I like a nice lemon myrtle leaf concentrate, and just a bit of this and ginger is pretty good. The second ferment gives it a real bubbly feel, which is very nice.

Sometimes it is hard to give the scoby's away quickly enough. My partner is in the middle of setting up a website, and one of the things he's wanting to include is a kombucha, kefir, tempeh mould etc swapping network worldwide. If someone has something to give away, or if someone needs something, they can agree to meet. All free of charge of course. Our kefir multiplies pretty rapidly too.

[GreenGuy]

Thanks for your post, enfoldedblue! I felt sure there must be quite a few people here who make and drink kombucha. I also make ginger KT quite often, and my other favorite is elderberry. I make a syrup from the berries and add it to the brew at the time of bottling. I'd love to try the myrtle leaf. I give away the scobys pretty freely, and I also have more spares than people who want them. I used to exchange cultures with people in the late 80s and early 90s, and have shipped them all over.

There are things you can do with spare pellicles. When dried, they are extremely tough and can be used as leather. You can mash them in a blender or food processor - this makes a superior dressing for wounds. You can compost them, or even place them around acid-loving plants like gardenias.