Are e-cigs really safe?

[archemedion-the-mage]

A certain brand of electronic cigarette in the UK has hads its MD quoted as saying that it would be preferred if smokers would use their e-cigs as a replacement for tobacco rather than a means of quiting? Are these e-cig companies owned by chemical giants or tobacco companies so that they still retain an element of control through smoking? The brand i mentioned also has a pack design that is rife with symbolism. Anyone have any knowledge they could share about electronic cigarettes?

Blessings

[The One]

Not really sure

But if i was a betting man i would say in a few years they will find something very unsafe with all these products.

Remember in the 40's 50's cigarettes were not classed as being dangerous,in fact my grandmother was encouraged to smoke by the doctor

[MacStar]

Hey guys, at least 3 I know here have been Vaping for quite a while now and this question has been raised many times.

I've been Vaping now since July 2011 after 20 years as an RYO smoker and a heavy smoker at that.I was coughing up phlegm and finding it hard to breathe by the end of the day, my fitness was very poor.Now I have 100% lung capacity,sleep better,(don't stink!), and generally feel better than I did.It's heaps cheaper too which is good, though occasionally a shiny new device comes on the market and..well the money you save, you end up spending on that LOL.

I'd be interested to know the company and see the logo too, as I know that one of Big Baccy's Co's are putting out a line of E-Cigs.

In short, these are mostly private companies that sell Hardware of various types...the best known one's being Joytech,Boge and Smoktech though there are many more and it has come a long way from it's roots in 2003 when Hon Lik invented the "cigalike" style.

Basically they are a rechargeable battery with some type of atomizer attached to it that contains the Nicotine in a food grade PG and or VG mix with food grade flavour and there are many types of flavours.They heat a mix of fluid that Vaporizes in much the same way a Fog Machine does, only using Food Grade Glycerines and what is exhaled is 99% water vapor with the Nicotine being mostly absorbed via the mucosa the mouth and throat rather than the lungs.

There have been some stories about them containing basically Coolant/Anti-Freeze, but that's just propaganda BS.

The "Analogue" cigarette itself contains around 4,000 added chemicals besides the Tobacco Leaf and around 40 known carcinogens.The other thing is the burning of this concoction produces tars which the E-Cigs don't.

In NZ and other places they have done extensive testing and found them to be pretty much safe(like we knew), well 99% safer..but getting approval as a Therapeutic Good or Nicotine Replacement Therapy Device is up against Big Pharma,Big Tobacco so you can see why the propaganda and such arises every now and then.

I can happily say that since I started I have not had one Cigarette and I'm addicted to Nicotine, which to me isn't a problem as it's no more dangerous than Coffee in that regard *(with exception of C@ca C@la and the likes)..in fact it's considered a Nootropic.

There have been a few Darwin Award winners like the bloke that blew his teeth out with one, but that's because he made what we call a "Mod" and didn't have vent holes in the tube that contained the battery(which obviously failed)

The quality of the hardware is incredible these days and most Vendors make their own "E-juice" from some major companies like Loranne,FlavourArt,The Flavor Apprentice and Perfumers Apprentice.

In Aus, we cannot buy or sell Liquid Nicotine on shore but we can legally import it, which is how we all do it here.

The company I buy mine off grows it's own organic Tobacco,extracts it,runs tests and analysis on their products, is certified and then sells it....so a really good source and a hell of a lot cheaper even than buying smokes....not that I'd ever touch one again:bad:

I'm on 2 E-Cig Forums and everyone's happy and healthy now they've made the switch and we help any newbies along the way.

I'll come back to this thread and maybe put up some piccy's of the devices and hopefully Shipo and a few others might "pipe" in with some more info.

They are far safer than cigarettes in many ways and to me, that's the main thing.

Thanks for starting the thread archemedion!

In the meantime check this list of nice chemicals in the average Cigarette:
http://archive.tobacco.org/Resources/599ingredients.html

Be interested to see more input here :)

[mcat911]

I have been using one for the last 5 months and have to agree with the better health feeling all round. I wouldn't go back now, it's so much better, but my cynical side is just waiting for the Gov to step in and tax or license the E cigs. They must be losing revenue in taxes from these E cigs.

[shipo]

I can't add much more then my good friend MacStar has already stated except for my own story, I started smoking at a young age and smoked heavily for 40+years and around 2010 realized if I didn't make a change I wasn't going to be around much longer. I was coughing that badly at night I'd throw up, I couldn't sleep for the coughing and my fitness was at an all time low..I'd made several attempts to quit with nicotine patches but to no avail, I had nil will power and figured I was doomed.Then after doing some research online I discovered the e-cig and thought I'd give it a whirl as at the time I felt I had little to lose, 3 years later and I've not wanted nor touched a tobacco product..I can smell again,I'm back to weight training and never felt better in my life..No cough and breathing free. I can honestly say it saved my life when nothing else worked. Cheers archemedion and hope we've helped clear things up a little :)

[shipo]

I have been using one for the last 5 months and have to agree with the better health feeling all round. I wouldn't go back now, it's so much better, but my cynical side is just waiting for the Gov to step in and tax or license the E cigs. They must be losing revenue in taxes from these E cigs.

You're not the only one with that fear Mcat..I can see it happening but they're going to have to put up with a hell of a lot of rebellious angry vapers when it does..

[DOWNTRODDEN]

My missus and i smoked just under 100 per day between us we try'd everything to quit but we both enjoyed smoking but it was costing us way to much.
We basically swapped smoking for vaping it was an easy transition, tastes better not stinky at all.
After a month or so i lost my smokers cough and felt much healthier we both have not had so much as a puff of tobacco for well over a year.
I have never vaped anything that looks like like a normal tobacco cigarette my equipment is big and shinny as smaller models just don't preform " cool draw little vapor production" and i don't like to look like a smoker anyway.
Yes i use nicotine fluid when i vape ~ but the nicotine's not the cancer causing part of smoking anyway, its the tar's and toxic gas given of in burning tobacco that do the damage.
Nicotine is a drug much like caffeine.
AND NO I DON'T SELL ANYTHING E CIG RELATED !

[Phoenix1304]

Hi MacStar, thanks for your response to the OP, very interesting. I looked into these a while back, but had some doubts of the kind already mentioned. Glad to hear you're all doing so well on them and for heavy smokers they clearly are better than cigs. I smoke organic rolling tobacco, I think the worst of the chemical concoction seems to be in the filter tips, though no doubt poisonous chemical processes are employed in the production of most tobaccos. I was very close to getting one, then decided to wait and see....I do love my baccy! LOL But I am sick of the smell in my house and on clothes. I'm very healthy thankfully and figured my heart will get me before my lungs do and with many failed attempts at giving up, I gave up giving up.

So here's my question. What is the brand of organic juice you get and and where? and what e-cig do you use? There's so many on the market and many mixed reviews on sponsored blogs, I don't really want to be experimenting at £50/60 a time. I'm glad to see there's an organic option. Perhaps you could let us know and also the forums that you help newbies on...

Thanks
Helen

[DOWNTRODDEN]

Not really sure

But if i was a betting man i would say in a few years they will find something very unsafe with all these products.

Remember in the 40's 50's cigarettes were not classed as being dangerous,in fact my grandmother was encouraged to smoke by the doctor

Many Dr's did recommend smoking but is was for the nicotine health benefits, even today in some medical cases nicotine is used to stimulate the nervous system amongst other things in patients

[shipo]

Hi MacStar, thanks for your response to the OP, very interesting. I looked into these a while back, but had some doubts of the kind already mentioned. Glad to hear you're all doing so well on them and for heavy smokers they clearly are better than cigs. I smoke organic rolling tobacco, I think the worst of the chemical concoction seems to be in the filter tips, though no doubt poisonous chemical processes are employed in the production of most tobaccos. I was very close to getting one, then decided to wait and see....I do love my baccy! LOL But I am sick of the smell in my house and on clothes. I'm very healthy thankfully and figured my heart will get me before my lungs do and with many failed attempts at giving up, I gave up giving up.

So here's my question. What is the brand of organic juice you get and and where? and what e-cig do you use? There's so many on the market and many mixed reviews on sponsored blogs, I don't really want to be experimenting at £50/60 a time. I'm glad to see there's an organic option. Perhaps you could let us know and also the forums that you help newbies on...

Thanks
Helen

Hi Helen,
The UK forum is here http://ukvapers.org/ and here for an Aussie version http://forums.aussievapers.com/forum.php Hope this helps :) Cheers

[Lifebringer]

I have the greenpuffer.com brand and they have a menthol mg of 2mg, 6mg, and 12 for the heavy long term smoker to knock cravings as you reduce 1st the tar and leave the nicotine, than a gradually with no 2nd hand pollution indoors or harm to the lungs. I have a chain smoking schizophenic sister damaged at 17 from a drug overdose of heroin and cocaine from 1972 when she ran away from home and left me to raise mothers children. She made a wrong choice that we all have to pay for taking care of her. She has the minds of a 4yr old, 8 yr old sneaky teen 13-14 and the 17yr old sneak away at night for sex mind. She was in a "stable" in NY in Manhattan and had twin boys by a doctor in Canada, WE have never seen. She is 57 now and has a list of illnesses that changed my life. So she also is a fire risk, while posting this, I had just told her to stop putting lit cigarettes in my trash( she doesn't like the new electronic ones) Tough, I cant have her habits burning me out of house and home. I've been a smoker and there is a certain responsibility of putting the butt in astray, can or sand, but she's not getting it.

I bought the e-cig for me to quit, but she'll go through two packs non-stop like a chimney, if not monitored. Like I said there's other things w/her health that are causing problems. When she can't get the cigarette EARLY 5am to stink up my breakfast nook, she'll urinate herself in bed to spite me. She has diabetes and drinks water like a hose, from sun up to sun down. I cut her off at 6pm to give her a chance to empty her bladder, and she sneaks water as I sleep and swims the morning away up to her neck.
Aaaaag! She did another cig in the trash and my husband just caught her not two minutes after catching her the last time.

So the e-cig is not the problem here. They work, I almost quit last March, but she is constantly asking: "Kim? Gotta cigarette, every 10-15min and no amount of "wait a whiles, no you just had one, or hide the pack will help.

E-cigs safer than fire for me and I can sleep.
WE don't need two basket cases bumping of the rubber rooms in life.

PS She's inviting the guys from her mental health program to MY HOME without permission, they just show up. Don't know why they are in the "MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAM" but I do know, my home has become unsafe with her here, and for all we know, they could be serial killers now with my address following the docile chainsmker, screaming for sex in her life again. I told her, her last bout with obtaining sex during Hurricane Sandy got her a STD, and a maxi-coat with NOTHING UNDER IT. Some schmuck gave her a coat, before peddling her on the street.

Aaaaagh! I want a cigarette!!!:der:

[Snookie]

Not really sure

But if i was a betting man i would say in a few years they will find something very unsafe with all these products.

Remember in the 40's 50's cigarettes were not classed as being dangerous,in fact my grandmother was encouraged to smoke by the doctor

Many Dr's did recommend smoking but is was for the nicotine health benefits, even today in some medical cases nicotine is used to stimulate the nervous system amongst other things in patients

Nicotine is also good for the brain in that it boosts dopamine levels which promote a sense of well being. And I'm saying this after quitting cold turkey on Jan 27, just over 3 months now!

I did buy one of the e-cigs, but never got around to trying it, and now that I've hopefully quit I'm afraid to try it for fear of starting again. I may give it to one of my neighbours who smokes like a chimney and has emphysema so bad she is on oxygen. If what others have said about using the e-cigs helping their cough is true, maybe it will help her.

[Mike Gorman]

Macstar gave you a very good account...I am puffing one as i write this, i use the Joytech USB 1,000 milliamp hours battery, with the vision clearomizer tank atomizer,
with 11mg nicotine "Long bottom Leaf" pipe sauce. i have been using e-cigs for about 3 years now and have just about stopped tobacco use altogether after smoking for 35 years
As stated, if you go into night Clubs you are breathing the same stuff that is in E-Cigs-Glycerine and Propylene Glycol-my lung function has improved, sense of taste returned and blood pressure
returned to normal range. Nuff said-they are wonderful devices, not sure about that brand you mention-have to take a look. But as a general statement-i applaud them!

[Mike Gorman]

Geez Louise, and i thought my life was complicated....

[archemedion-the-mage]

Update: the brand i am talking about is E-lites.

Blessings

[MacStar]

Hi MacStar, thanks for your response to the OP, very interesting. I looked into these a while back, but had some doubts of the kind already mentioned. Glad to hear you're all doing so well on them and for heavy smokers they clearly are better than cigs. I smoke organic rolling tobacco, I think the worst of the chemical concoction seems to be in the filter tips, though no doubt poisonous chemical processes are employed in the production of most tobaccos. I was very close to getting one, then decided to wait and see....I do love my baccy! LOL But I am sick of the smell in my house and on clothes. I'm very healthy thankfully and figured my heart will get me before my lungs do and with many failed attempts at giving up, I gave up giving up.

So here's my question. What is the brand of organic juice you get and and where? and what e-cig do you use? There's so many on the market and many mixed reviews on sponsored blogs, I don't really want to be experimenting at £50/60 a time. I'm glad to see there's an organic option. Perhaps you could let us know and also the forums that you help newbies on...

Thanks
Helen

Hi Helen, no problem at all and I hope this thread grows in popularity as I'm sure Shipo,DOWNTRODDEN and myself would be only too happy to help others short cut and understand what we have learned without the semantics and BS that comes with dedicated Forums on one subject.

I'm sure some existing members will also add to this thread too as it really is one of the most dangerous pastimes statistically and being addictive,will almost be the reason you part this realm a tad too early IMHO.

There are chemicals in the rings around the cigarette paper which are essentially pyro- accelerators, namely salt peter...works out nice for Big Baccy as the cigarette burns faster unless you use plain rolling paper.As for the butts, well they are pretty much just innocuous but do collect tar which will vaporize as the heat is drawn through especially the yummy bit just before it's over ;)...kinda leaves you hanging for more.

Salt Peter was the reason my mandibular joint used to swell,ache and click much like other additives in soft drinks and cordials do.I worked this out as I became chemically sensitive to additives so switched to a decent Virginian Blend and started RYO'ing.

We all love baccy ;)..and that is one of many "obstacles" to overcome, but it isn't as hard as it first seems and we even still get the feeling for one now, but a few tokes on the e-cig to feed the receptors and it quickly fades. It's a matter of finding the right strength Nico for you so you get what we call Throat Hit, or TH for short and that fullness feeling smoke gives which is the exhaled thick Vapour.

Another factor is settling on a Flavour or more that you like and could Vape, usually something "earthy" to make up for that lag in the plant matter burning, though some go straight for fruits,candy,menthols,drink flavours..you name it, they make it.

3 days after no smoking and getting your Nico hits, you'll really hate that smell and wash everything LOL but some still like the smell as we are all different.

As I said there are many facets to smoking itself, like the association thing with Coffee,after a meal,with a beer etc and that can be daunting if you are at say a pub and feel a little strange still with using a "fake cigarette". After a while though for most, it becomes a proud passionate way of saying "I'm not killing myself" which is good feedback to yourself also.

There's the having something burning in your hand or hanging out your gob thing, the defensive "fire and smoke" thing that acts as a barrier psychologically to some...many facets depending on you.

Let's face it, cigarettes taste like crap but your olfactory system is overriden by the smoke plus you're used to it and need that Nic. Within 3 or so days, things repair and the sense of smell and taste return. Some think that this will lead to obesity which is the most common reason for people with both problems to keep smoking and that will most likely shorten your life anyway, so why not eliminate at least one of them so you can tackle the other?
You'll have more energy and inhale more oxygen so exercise will be easier.

As for the Vendor for Nicotine I mentioned (i'm just a consumer, not an affiliate) is RTSVapes. There are many others but for me personally, I have more faith that theirs is true to what they say as Nicotine can be extracted from many plants...not saying they are but it's one of the most abundant addictive Alkaloids in the plant world and this Vendor's Nic has been independently tested for purity and strength consistency by a member of our Forum who has a test kit and also sells them.

I see a few more posts that I'm happy to address as I'm sure my friends will too but for tonight, I'm hitting the hay :)

Hopefully this has shed more light on electronic cigarettes so far and dispelled some of the misconceptions and propaganda.

Cheers for now.

MacStar

[BrianEn]

I would've loved to get my hands on one of those. I was trying to quit smoking but I Just couldn't. I finally did quit via heart attack and lengthy hospital stay. I wasn't awkw for the withdrawl portion of the quitting. The thing is I woulda love a choice. It wasn't the smoking though. I had many other contributors in this deal. Weight diet but the smoking was major as I couldn't walk because of the codp which has greatly reduced because of the non-smoking status.
Well it's all happened now, and can't change it for me, but would like others to have the opportunity to so.

[enfoldedblue]

When I saw this thread a few days ago I had never heard of e-cigs. I smoked for years but gave up 4 years ago just before I got pregnant. I know how hard it is!!

Today I came accross this article by By Dr. Mercola and thought I should post it here.

The funny thing is that just today I was also reading health advice from people over 100 and it seemed most of them smoked for many years...I think we are just all so different there really isn't a blanket answer when it comes to health.



If you’re a smoker, you’ve probably seen the relatively new electronic cigarettes on the market. Maybe you’ve even tried them in an attempt to quit your cigarette habit.

My mom has been a smoker for over sixty years and I really don't hassle her about it because she is not taking any medications, has a really great diet and uses a device to poke holes in her cigarettes that reduces the amount of smoke she inhales by 95%.

I have learned that it is best to allow her to have this one vice and help control the other variables, which are far more damaging to her health, but she also recently asked me about the electronic cigarettes.

Electronic cigarettes are touted as a safer, cleaner alternative to smoking, but new research suggests there’s more to the equation than meets the eye.

While they may not expose you to the thousands of toxic compounds in the average conventional cigarette, they do contain hazardous chemicals -- and in some ways these entirely manmade ‘tobacco alternatives’ may be even more dangerous to your health than regular cigarettes.

How do Electronic Cigarettes Work?


When you take a puff of an electronic cigarette – which one in five current smokers1 have tried -- a battery heats up a liquid that contains a flavoring (such as tobacco, menthol, cherry, vanilla, or java), a humectant (typically propylene glycol or vegetable glycerin) and, sometimes, nicotine.

As you inhale, you get a “dose” of flavored nicotine without the chemicals typically produced from burning tobacco. You also get the oral satisfaction of bringing a cigarette-like device to your mouth, which other nicotine replacements, such as the patch or gum, do not offer. While this sounds safer than traditional smoking, the short- and long-term health effects of electronic cigarettes are not entirely understood.

To date, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has detected a potentially deadly antifreeze chemical called diethylene glycol in an electronic cigarette cartridge,2 along with tobacco-specific nitrosamines, which are linked to cancer. In the latest study, researchers hypothesized that since electronic cigarettes contain various metal components, so too might the aerosol that you inhale, and their hypothesis turned out to be right.

Electronic Cigarettes Contain Toxic Metal Nanoparticles


After testing the aerosol from a leading manufacturer of electronic cigarettes, it was found to contain metals including tin, copper, nickel and silver, silicate beads and nanoparticles. In some cases, such as in the case of tin particles, the amounts were greater than you might be exposed to from smoking a conventional cigarette. The researchers concluded:3


“Cartomizer aerosol from a leading manufacturer of EC [electronic cigarette] contained metals, silicate beads, and nanoparticles. Poor solder joints appear to have contributed to the presence of tin in the aerosol. In cytotoxicity tests, cartomizer fluid containing tin particles inhibited attachment and survival of hPF [human pulmonary fibroblasts].


Other metals likely came from the wires (copper, nickel, silver) and other metal components used in the cartomizers, while silicate particles appeared to come from the fiberglass wicks.

While the outer fibers filtered out many of the tin particles, significant amounts of tin, other metals, and silicate beads escaped into the aerosol and would result in human exposure, in some cases probably greater than a conventional cigarette user would experience.” [emphasis added]

The effects of toxic metal exposures can range from subtle symptoms to serious diseases. Since metals build up in your body over time, symptoms are often attributed to other causes and people often don't realize that they have been affected by metals until it's too late. Further, once metals build up in your body they can cause irreversible damage.

Why Breathing in Metal Nanoparticles May be Dangerous


Adding to the potential risks are nanoparticles, which, due to their ultramicroscopic size, can easily enter your bloodstream, blood vessels and other body tissues, causing unknown consequences. As written by Sayer Ji, founder of GreenMedInfo.com:4


“One of the unintended, adverse consequences of nanotechnology in general is that by making a substance substantially smaller in size than would occur naturally, or though pre-nanotech production processes, the substance may exhibit significantly higher toxicity when in nanoparticle form.


Contrary to older toxicological risk models, less is more: by reducing a particle's size the technology has now made that substance capable of evading the body's natural defenses more easily, i.e. passing through pores in the skin or mucous membranes, evading immune and detoxification mechanisms that evolved millions of years before the nanotech era.


For example, when nickel particles are reduced in size to the nanometer range (one billionth of a meter wide) they may actually become more toxic to the endocrine system as now they are capable of direct molecular interaction with estrogen receptors in the body, disrupting their normal structure and function. Moreover, breathing these particles into the lungs, along with other metals, ethylene glycol and nicotine produces a chemical concoction exhibiting synergistic toxicity, i.e. the toxicity of the whole is higher than the sum of their parts.”


more: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/04/10/electronic-cigarette.aspx?np=true

[mahalall]

Be careful where you smoke them! you might be mistaken for an e-cig terrorist!

A fake cigarette giving off smoke sparked a terror scare on board a coach and caused chaos on one of the country's busiest motorways. Armed police, the Army and emergency services launched an enormous response and closed part of the M6 Toll road after a passenger on board raised the alarm after seeing a "vapour" coming from a bag.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/9377941/Fake-cigarette-triggers-major-M6-anti-terror-incident.html

[huyi82]

so far e-cigs have been too expensive for me to try, i did try one a long time ago and i felt it didn't replace the real thing but i can see it has benefits that i could have, they need to get cheaper though like £4-£5 then i could consider them, they are still £60+ so way too expensive to try them out, the real thing is much cheaper than £60 so there is no incentive for me to try them yet, maybe when real cigs are really expensive then i try them, i also always wonder if that is the government's aim to get everyone to try e-cigs so they can stop producing the real stuff.

e-cigs do have one benefit over real cigs you can smoke them anywhere technically, with real cigs you can't smoke anywhere outside anymore only in your own home now, if e-cigs truely give you that freedom to smoke anywhere without getting fined then that is very good.

[kaon]

I have been vaping continuously since November 2nd, 2014. I must echo what the others have said about feeling better since giving up cigarettes. While I still "queeze" a little, my lungs are much more clear and the absence of the offensive odor of cigarettes is a big plus.

The disposable e-cigs are garbage as far as I am concerned. For the true vape experience you need a quality atomizer which has adjustable voltage thus controlling the amount of vapor and delivery on nicotine. I purchased an Evod kit for about $50 and bought the juice for $8.50 at a local shop. The bottle was a 10ML bottle which had lasted me for several days. Through research and shopping I had just purchased 4 30ML bottles for about $53, enough to last me for a few months.

If you are a heavy smoker, I would recommend 24 or 22 MG of nicotine content or at least 18. It will be necessary that your physical craving be satisfied in order for the transition to be easier. I do plan on decreasing the nicotine content over time.

In the long run, this will save a lot of money and quite probably the health problems associated with smoking. I will never return to cigarettes again.

[Twig]

My 2 cents worth.... After finding out what they are spraying on us with chemtrails i'm not giving up. I believe smoking is protecting my lungs. What i would like to do is grow my own tobacco.

[Roisin]

Vaping is the lesser evil of the two and even my sister's doctor advised her to switch over to it because nothing else is working for her. I too occasionally vape now whenever I have a craving for a cigarette which I still have, btw, even though I quit smoking via cold turkey many moons ago. I also know people who have quit smoking cigs... thanks to vaping ... who then were able to stop vaping too as it is much less addictive than smoking cigs.

So for those of us lesser mortals who have not succeeded in quitting smoking cigs via cold turkey or nic gum, vaping is the most viable option out there to use as a cigarette cessation program, especially for heavy smokers.... no question about that one!

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

I buy and sell e-cigs as a hobby and help various people quit the analogs.. e-cigs are far from dangerous. I have been using them for 3 years and I have tried nearly every design made as I know all the makers and distributers. I had such a collection of various e-cigs at one point it was like a museum.

Tabacco has been designed to simply kill you slowly in these days, unless you grow your own or buy trusted home grown or farmed. E-liquid is just nicotine and flavor and VG, 3 ingredients pending on the maker and the flavorings.. analogs have over 4,000 chemicals inside and each chemical has it's lab and thus 4,000 labs will be making a profit from that crazy mix they call a smoke. Then add the chemists and the hospitals and the cancer institute and you basically have a legal way of culling the herd.

They were late on this one and it's fantastic because creativity spurred this on with people all over the world making great e-juices mixed and steeped at home. Some have become fully employed and others have ventured into making cool ways of making a mod as we call them. Now with DNA 30/40/50 chips inside with all sorts of safety features. Wooden box mods to cool SS pipes and made with such beauty and care.

I personally make my own juice and wicks from boiled organic cotton from Japan and use Nichrome for wire and preheat the wires so burn off any chemicals and build my own coils. I could fill a smokers lounge full of white clouds in airports if I wish in 30 seconds.

The media and FDA will take control eventually but before they do they'll whine and bad press it and keep it away from actual media.

E-cigs practically saves lives and you'd think they'd encourage this and sponsor ect ect but they always attack it and slam the door shut so the masses don't want to take the risk but still keep smoking the **** they make FOR YOU.

In Japan there is one brand called Hope. 9 mg TAR and 1 mg Nicotine, and they call this Hope.. ??
They have bitched about e-cigs on the TV and said no more.. but slowly and surely people are taking to it and it's spreading like wild fire. It's great to see people finding an alternative to a killing addiction. Vaping is fun and extremely tasty and the more you vape the less nicotine you require. I started at 12 Mg and because I make my own coils now.. I'm at 2Mg. You start to see that the addiction is just an illusion and as long as you breath in some smoke and blow out your body and mind is satisfied.

I urge people to research the best liquids and e-cigs and spend some good money on one from a private builder. This way you help the vaping community keep going and help contribute to saving your own life and others and live a cleaner and healthier life yourself.

Sorry for the ramble.. I do it from time to time.

SKi-

[DarMar]

only nature, chemistry and controlling of nature is a big flaw. which we can see first hand..

here we have many home growers of tobacco and few parts are dedicated to tobacco growing, big pieces of land..
And you can still buy home grown non sprayed, it is healthy and even in some moments necessary to negate chemical influences...

in latest periods of time government tries to stop all of that and promotes e-cigs.. i already learned to take whatever modern medicine governments provide.. is's for our own benefit!!
e-cig ... heh... woot?

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

400 watts vape.. just to add some fun to the thread.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cill_IbtXiw