Another chemtrail thread (split from Clif High's Last Wujo thread)

[pyrangello]

[ Mod-edit: The first 25 posts of this thread began life over on the thread Clif High's Last Wujo (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?58940-Clif-High-s-Last-Wujo). - Paul. ]

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Well if there's any connection to cliffs info and the way they have been spraying chemtrails in the last 3 weeks , I may say it could be an indication something is going on. I've never seen them spray this heavy on a consistant basis like this day after day. high, low, criss / cross. There are some other things going on to looks like in a preparation mode coming down the pike too at the end of the month. Just keep your eyes and ears peeled so we can connect the dots . And most of all stay right with your higher self and the man upstairs.

[WhiteFeather]

Well if there's any connection to cliffs info and the way they have been spraying chemtrails in the last 3 weeks , I may say it could be an indication something is going on. I've never seen them spray this heavy on a consistant basis like this day after day. high, low, criss / cross. There are some other things going on to looks like in a preparation mode coming down the pike too at the end of the month. Just keep your eyes and ears peeled so we can connect the dots . And most of all stay right with your higher self and the man upstairs.

FWIW....In the past 3 hrs here in NYC. We were nuked heavily in the sky from the chemdrone planes.

[crosby]

Well if there's any connection to cliffs info and the way they have been spraying chemtrails in the last 3 weeks , I may say it could be an indication something is going on. I've never seen them spray this heavy on a consistant basis like this day after day. high, low, criss / cross. There are some other things going on to looks like in a preparation mode coming down the pike too at the end of the month. Just keep your eyes and ears peeled so we can connect the dots . And most of all stay right with your higher self and the man upstairs.




pyrangello, i totally agree with you. here where i live in western pennsylvania, the chemtrails have been quadrupled up. by this i mean usually we could see a plane very high up leaving a single trail behind, and usually not more than three planes at one time. now, they are flying lower, have a double barrel trail and i see at least six in the sky at a time. it has been relentless. i have also noticed that on several occasions with the single trail it wasn't producing cloud cover like usual. but now, with the double barrel trails, the cloud cover is very, very thick. almost as if they are definitely trying to hide something. i remember not to long ago, a video posted on the forum where a man who works in geo-engineering said that pretty soon they (meaning whoever is in charge or wants this done) will not be able to hide whatever it is they are hiding for very much longer and i believe his timeline was in sync with everyone that is discussed here. does anyone remember that clip? i can't seem to find it.
warmest regards, corson

[InCiDeR]

Well if there's any connection to cliffs info and the way they have been spraying chemtrails in the last 3 weeks , I may say it could be an indication something is going on. I've never seen them spray this heavy on a consistant basis like this day after day. high, low, criss / cross. There are some other things going on to looks like in a preparation mode coming down the pike too at the end of the month. Just keep your eyes and ears peeled so we can connect the dots . And most of all stay right with your higher self and the man upstairs.




pyrangello, i totally agree with you. here where i live in western pennsylvania, the chemtrails have been quadrupled up. by this i mean usually we could see a plane very high up leaving a single trail behind, and usually not more than three planes at one time. now, they are flying lower, have a double barrel trail and i see at least six in the sky at a time. it has been relentless. i have also noticed that on several occasions with the single trail it wasn't producing cloud cover like usual. but now, with the double barrel trails, the cloud cover is very, very thick. almost as if they are definitely trying to hide something. i remember not to long ago, a video posted on the forum where a man who works in geo-engineering said that pretty soon they (meaning whoever is in charge or wants this done) will not be able to hide whatever it is they are hiding for very much longer and i believe his timeline was in sync with everyone that is discussed here. does anyone remember that clip? i can't seem to find it.
warmest regards, corson

Chemtrails anyone?

http://www.weathermodification.com/projects.php

[crosby]

Well if there's any connection to cliffs info and the way they have been spraying chemtrails in the last 3 weeks , I may say it could be an indication something is going on. I've never seen them spray this heavy on a consistant basis like this day after day. high, low, criss / cross. There are some other things going on to looks like in a preparation mode coming down the pike too at the end of the month. Just keep your eyes and ears peeled so we can connect the dots . And most of all stay right with your higher self and the man upstairs.




pyrangello, i totally agree with you. here where i live in western pennsylvania, the chemtrails have been quadrupled up. by this i mean usually we could see a plane very high up leaving a single trail behind, and usually not more than three planes at one time. now, they are flying lower, have a double barrel trail and i see at least six in the sky at a time. it has been relentless. i have also noticed that on several occasions with the single trail it wasn't producing cloud cover like usual. but now, with the double barrel trails, the cloud cover is very, very thick. almost as if they are definitely trying to hide something. i remember not to long ago, a video posted on the forum where a man who works in geo-engineering said that pretty soon they (meaning whoever is in charge or wants this done) will not be able to hide whatever it is they are hiding for very much longer and i believe his timeline was in sync with everyone that is discussed here. does anyone remember that clip? i can't seem to find it.
warmest regards, corson

Chemtrails anyone?

http://www.weathermodification.com/projects.php

hahahhaahahahahahahh!!!!!!!
warmest, corson

[InCiDeR]

InCiDeR, that was so funny...... notice that the U.S. has the largest list of weather modification provacateurs.......too funny. but very serious at the same time. thank you for posting that. it just goes to show, somethings shouldn't be left in the hands of psychopaths......
warmest, corson

Yeah I saw that as well. Here we've been talking about chemtrails for years, and as usual it seems like they been hiding it in plain sight (or one of their contractors)! I hope I'm wrong though, that this is a company working for our best interest (I highly doubt it, but you can always hope!).

I found it hilarious as well, but also scary.

[indigopete]

Chemtrails is a difficult subject for me.

Most of what people call "chemtrails" are actually not chemtrails at all. They are just regular vapour trails. Nobody on the ground can tell the difference between a chemtrail and a regular vapour trail, despite all the hysteria. Take your statement, corson, for example:


here where i live in western pennsylvania, the chemtrails have been quadrupled up. by this i mean usually we could see a plane very high up leaving a single trail behind

Regular vapour trails are always multiple. Thats because planes have 2 or 4 engines.

Another thing that people say which confuses me is that nowadays chemtrails "hang around" whereas years ago they didn't. I don't know where people get this from or if they just make it up. Vapour trails can hang around and form clouds (a vapour trail IS a cloud) if they are a couple of hundred miles ahead of a warm front for example, where there is enough moisture in the upper atmosphere close to saturation for the vapour trail to persist and spread out.

i.e. what I'm pointing out is that the surrounding atmosphere has far more to say about the appearance of a vapour trail than any chemical impurities in the fuel could (or other "stuff" thats being sprayed).

I'm sure that "chemtrail spraying" activity goes on - it has been since the 50's in weather modification tests. But its not what the "chemtrail community" say it is. I've seen hundreds of chemtrail photographs around the internet and every single one is just a regular vapour trail to me. People just look up in the sky and are generally clueless about what they're seeing - despite that call "chemtrail" at every turn.

I don't think this is a healthy state of affairs.

[Lazlo]

The crosshatched trails that everyone refers to as the chemtrail grid are very easy to explain. Planes follow designated flight paths, like highways in the sky. A plane goes through and leaves a vapor trail. The wind shifts this trail and when the next plane comes through it leaves a parallel trail. There are thousands of commercial flights a day and the patterns add up quickly.

[InCiDeR]

...Chemtrails is a difficult subject for me...

I agree. I see it a bit like the Ufo phenomen: Lots of disinfo, lots of misjudged conclusions, lots of misinterpreted photos and trails ... but still a core of maybe 1-5% that really and truly indicates something solid in the theory.

The most reliable cases for me holds following circumstances:

1. A person that lives far away from any airport and flight corridors and during whole life seen a sky like this during a sunny day:
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/2348/nochemtrails.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/nochemtrails.jpg/)

2. All of the sudden the sky changes to this, and it happens frequently over a long period of time:
http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/9962/chemtrails.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/811/chemtrails.jpg/)

The above will of course not prove that chemtrails exists, just that something strange going on, whether that are chemtrails, vapour trails, weather modification or something else entirely. Still something to look into in my opinion.


Then we have the problem with modern software that are available to many people, which makes the analysis of photos somewhat difficult:
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4930/chemtrailsnotconspiricy.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/441/chemtrailsnotconspiricy.jpg/)

Then again, who said it would be easy to find the truth?


ON TOPIC: There were some interesting information and predictions presented in the video, hopefully they will be proven wrong. If we believe we are the creators of everything, maybe we should focus on creating something else than what is predicted and not let this be a self-fulfilling prophecy!?

[Swan]

I was a disbeliever of chemtrails until....one day I was watching a plane. I saw a thick white trail behind it. And then suddenly the trail stopped. The plane continued on its path, but no percievable trail. And then the thick white trail was back again. As if something had been switched off and then on again....

I watched the plane as it crossed the sky. The thick white trail remained, expanding. Except for the gap in the middle.

There was no way, as far as I could understand, that this could be a "normal" contrail.

Since then I have been watching planes alot. And I find it very hard to believe that these thick, expanding trails are normal.

[Sidney]

Chemtrails is a difficult subject for me.

Most of what people call "chemtrails" are actually not chemtrails at all. They are just regular vapour trails. Nobody on the ground can tell the difference between a chemtrail and a regular vapour trail, despite all the hysteria. Take your statement, corson, for example:


here where i live in western pennsylvania, the chemtrails have been quadrupled up. by this i mean usually we could see a plane very high up leaving a single trail behind

Regular vapour trails are always multiple. Thats because planes have 2 or 4 engines.

Another thing that people say which confuses me is that nowadays chemtrails "hang around" whereas years ago they didn't. I don't know where people get this from or if they just make it up. Vapour trails can hang around and form clouds (a vapour trail IS a cloud) if they are a couple of hundred miles ahead of a warm front for example, where there is enough moisture in the upper atmosphere close to saturation for the vapour trail to persist and spread out.

i.e. what I'm pointing out is that the surrounding atmosphere has far more to say about the appearance of a vapour trail than any chemical impurities in the fuel could (or other "stuff" thats being sprayed).

I'm sure that "chemtrail spraying" activity goes on - it has been since the 50's in weather modification tests. But its not what the "chemtrail community" say it is. I've seen hundreds of chemtrail photographs around the internet and every single one is just a regular vapour trail to me. People just look up in the sky and are generally clueless about what they're seeing - despite that call "chemtrail" at every turn.

I don't think this is a healthy state of affairs.

You are SADLY mistaken. Wake up. I am sorry, but you are the one that does not know what you are talking about. I don't know how old you are, but when you get OLD, you know the difference between the two. VAPOUR TRAILS DON'T MAKE YOU SICK. It obviously is not your time to wake up, everyone in their own timeline finds the truth. I apologize for the rant, and please do not take it too personally, because this is not aimed directly at you , but to those who are beginning their research. Do not believe for a second that the chemtrailing is not worldwide, and a DAILY operation with many many uses, not just weather manipulation.

[RMorgan]

I was a disbeliever of chemtrails until....one day I was watching a plane. I saw a thick white trail behind it. And then suddenly the trail stopped. The plane continued on its path, but no percievable trail. And then the thick white trail was back again. As if something had been switched off and then on again....

I watched the plane as it crossed the sky. The thick white trail remained, expanding. Except for the gap in the middle.

There was no way, as far as I could understand, that this could be a "normal" contrail.

Since then I have been watching planes alot. And I find it very hard to believe that these thick, expanding trails are normal.

Hey my friend,

Well, this phenomenon is quite explainable.

The level of moisture in the sky is not homogeneous, meaning that in the same altitude, there are "pockets" of humid and dry areas. Such variations precede the formation of clouds, which later form a visual demonstrative of such variations.

Contrails, or vapor trails, vary in aspect and duration according to a few atmospheric conditions, such as humidity, temperature, pollution, etc...

So, when an airplane, in the same altitude and speed, passes through areas with different levels of moisture, the appearance of its contrails may indeed change dramatically, giving that intermittent look you describe.

I´d like to note that I DO believe in chemtrails. However, most chemtrail pictures are indeed misinterpretations of regular contrails.

The most common argument I read about distinguishing contrails from chemtrails is about duration; They say contrails are not supposed to last long. However, this argument is very flawed. Contrails, by nature, are condensed water particles, like clouds, and, just like clouds, they can last long or not, or even not manifest at all, depending on the atmospheric conditions.

So, as far as I know, there´s no practical way to actually visually differentiate between contrails and chemtrails.

The only solid evidence about chemtrails are the chemical analyzes of air and soil that indeed had detected unusual substances several times.

Raf.

[indigopete]

I was a disbeliever of chemtrails until....one day I was watching a plane. I saw a thick white trail behind it. And then suddenly the trail stopped. The plane continued on its path, but no percievable trail. And then the thick white trail was back again. As if something had been switched off and then on again....

Isn't it funny how the less people know about things, the more "sure" they are about them and the more they know about things the less "sure" they are about them.

Swan: I urge you never to study any meteorology of the upper atmosphere because it might undermine some of that natural "insight" you've got :)

What you saw is a regular vapour trail.

When aircraft are delivering a chemical payload, they do so by opening the tank valves and allowing in the chemical to emerge as a continuous flow over the discharge period. There is no point to an intermittent delivery mechanism which cycles the flow on and off in rapid succession since this is both inefficient and potentially dangerous to the aircraft's safety.

On the other hand, vapour trails DO exhibit this "on-off" phenomenon. Not because the exhaust from the engines is intermittent but because the upper atmosphere often contains "temperature ripples" or "humidity ripples" within which water vapour in the exhaust alternately precipitates or stays vaporised.

You can even see this effect in regular clouds (known as "alto cumulus") - waves where the water vapour alternately crystallises or stays as a gas. Aircraft engine exhaust is mainly water vapour, so any characteristics which apply to clouds also apply to engine exhausts.

It's a shame the chemtrail community is turning itself into a laughing stock over this whole business, because as I say, there probably is some clandestine spraying going on. But as long as people keep spreading nonsense, the PTP don't even need to lift a finger to hide it because the "chemtrail community" do such a good job for them.

21373

[Hervé]

Imagine the X axis as being a plane flight path and the sine wave the interface between hot, moist and cold, dry air layers:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Sine.svg/590px-Sine.svg.png

There is your "intermittent" trail...

Same works for the so-called "HAARP" clouds posted above.



See this thread for a more comprehensive overview on the debate: Why In The World Are They Spraying? A geoengineering explanation for chemtrails (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?57696-Why-In-The-World-Are-They-Spraying-A-geoengineering-explanation-for-chemtrails)

[blufire]

Dang it , , , ,another thread derailed by chemtrail debate.

Regarding Clif and the webbot. I view Clif’s reports (read every one for years) as another tool in a very well equipped toolbox I use in living my life and projecting how I made need to adapt or alter my way of living in the present, near and distant future.

I feel Clif’s Bots hit much more often than not and it is the subtle hits I pay the most attention too. Will there be a GCE by June 1st? Nope. Will there be a GCE in the next few years? I’d bet the farm on it.

Watch the world (natural) around you. . . .the globalists do . . . and they are preparing for ALL contingencies.

And by the way. . . . chemtrail existence are an undeniable fact of our daily lives now and at this point need to be. It is the reason they exist that we can’t seem to keep straight.

[pyrangello]

I remember a guy who use to have a site like a radar weather site daily, it was a daily update to chemtrail coverage. One thing that always stuck with me was the country of Australia , on the one particular day looking at the coverage of where the chemtrails were located in that country , it was only above the populated areas of that country which really made me ponder the thoughts. There still at it here as when I last posted .

[blufire]

I remember a guy who use to have a site like a radar weather site daily, it was a daily update to chemtrail coverage. One thing that always stuck with me was the country of Australia , on the one particular day looking at the coverage of where the chemtrails were located in that country , it was only above the populated areas of that country which really made me ponder the thoughts. There still at it here as when I last posted .

YES! They ARE above (mostly) populated areas and the globalists live in these populated areas too. They are experimenting in ways to protect us from many ‘contingencies’ as I mentioned above . . . some natural (cme’s and other solar activity, climate change) some manmade (emp’s come to mind)

Are there ‘side effects’ to this experimentation, unfortunately yes, but I feel strongly that (for the most part) they are trying to find a way to deflect and equal the odds for at least part of humanity to survive in case our planet is hit with something as destructive as a cme. As well as TO BE ABLE to modify and adjust our climate so our planet does remain habitable for generations to come because of global climate (natural) changes.

:behindsofa:

[Lazlo]

I remember a guy who use to have a site like a radar weather site daily, it was a daily update to chemtrail coverage. One thing that always stuck with me was the country of Australia , on the one particular day looking at the coverage of where the chemtrails were located in that country , it was only above the populated areas of that country which really made me ponder the thoughts. There still at it here as when I last posted .

That is because traffic is higher over populated areas with commercial airports. Planes come in from many different directions but line up in designated flight paths dozens of miles out from the runways.

[indigopete]

You are SADLY mistaken. Wake up. I am sorry, but you are the one that does not know what you are talking about. I don't know how old you are, but when you get OLD, you know the difference between the two.

Flamewars on Avalon !

A rare occurrence - savour the moment :)

Apparently I don't know what I'm talking about, am too young (thanks, I'll hang onto that one :) ) and need to wait till I'm older to understand the difference between a vapour trail and a chemtrail.

Funny, I've got this vague memory of spending 5 years of my life studying the thermodynamics of gases and aerodynamics of the atmosphere about 25 years ago but it must be my imagination. I've certainly missed out on the Youtube course in chemtrail identification.

[Hervé]

[...]

You are SADLY mistaken. Wake up. I am sorry, but you are the one that does not know what you are talking about. I don't know how old you are, but when you get OLD, you know the difference between the two. VAPOUR TRAILS DON'T MAKE YOU SICK. It obviously is not your time to wake up, everyone in their own timeline finds the truth. I apologize for the rant, and please do not take it too personally, because this is not aimed directly at you , but to those who are beginning their research. Do not believe for a second that the chemtrailing is not worldwide, and a DAILY operation with many many uses, not just weather manipulation.

This may be a case of assigning a wrong target and wrong cause for a very real poisoning of the atmosphere we breathe.

In turn, this might be the result of a very skillfully crafted psyop (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54217-Their-Mind-and-the-Emotional-Matrix-that-we-create-with-it.&p=652209&viewfull=1#post652209) to deter and deflect from looking at the real culprits.

But to understand that, instead of riding an emotional wave, you would have to read AND understand what's been posted in this thread: Why In The World Are They Spraying? A geoengineering explanation for chemtrails (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?57696-Why-In-The-World-Are-They-Spraying-A-geoengineering-explanation-for-chemtrails)

[Lazlo]

An important concept to keep in mind during this conversation is the axiom that correlation does NOT equal causation. Combine this with Occam's razor and we can perhaps move forward.

This goes for Clif's work as well as the chemtrail sidebar. Because the GCE is correlated with financial upheavel in the data sets, it doesn't mean that the stock market influences geologic processes. Clif also made the point that there is no causation implied between the GCE and Alien wars. Put another way, he isn't blaming the GCE on visitors, just that they show up after the GCE.

For instance, aluminum and barium in soil samples are correlated with perceived increase in, I'll say, atmospheric phenomena and aircraft. It is more likely that Chinese manufacturing and lax environmental regulations are responsible for more particulates in the air that precipitate out and yield increased soil concentrations. No one is blaming increased mercury levels on chemtrails. It is generally accepted that this is a result of burning coal.

Keep in mind that temperatures over metro areas spiked in the days after 9-11. It was widely reported that this was a result of decreased cloud formation in the absence of air traffic.

Is this proof that there is indeed chemtrailing going on on a massive scale? Certainly not. It simply means that aircraft do contribute to cloud formation, which blocks incoming light, and reduces temperatures.

What's more likely, that TPTB changed the formula for Jet-A fuel and re-engineered all of the engines, and not one of the tens of thousands of people involved took notice? Or that people started looking up more and then reacting negatively to a phenomenon that they did not have the scientific background to understand?

Does all of this mean that I am arguing that there are no chemtrails at all? Of course not, because I don't know for sure. But I will go out on a limb and say that the vast majority of what people are claiming is chemtrails can be better explained by observer error. Just like I believe that 99% of UFO sightings have conventional explanations but that there is 1% that remains unexplained. I once heard Mr. Ryan say in reference to the Billy Meirs photos that, "If only one of those photos is legitimate then that changes everything."

[indigopete]

In turn, this might be the result of a very skillfully crafted psyop to deter and deflect from looking at the real culprits.

Agreed, and its working.

The best evidence for "chemtrails" that I've seen is aluminium content in mountain soil, measured 10 years apart or so. The ridiculous thing is, thats probably invisible when it's being delivered.

Meanwhile, you've got a worldwide army of clowns staring up at regular commercial flights and announcing they're spraying chemicals when in fact they've no clue on way or the other - basically keeping everybody's attention focused on where the action * isn't *.

[Wind]

If you're interested in chemtrails and the weather changes then please watch this highly informative video, the chemtrail part is after the 09:15 mark.

_yy3YJBOw_o

[Sidney]

Well, Im not even sure what chemtrails have to do with Clif High. But I have researched chemtrails long enough that i do know the difference between commercial airplanes and chem spray tankers. There are different spray mixtures for diffrent purposes. Some cloud up the whole sky within hours. Other mixes are transparent. Commercial planes are identifiable. Chem tankers are white, unmarked. Im not going to even get into this any farther here because I don't want to argue. But I will say, anyone on this forum that is even remotely pushing the "theres no such thing as chemtrails" agenda, I am wary of. This of course is y personal opinion.

[indigopete]

There are different spray mixtures for diffrent purposes. Some cloud up the whole sky within hours. Other mixes are transparent. Commercial planes are identifiable. Chem tankers are white, unmarked.

Out of interest, how can one tell the difference between a regular vapour trail that "clouds up the sky within hours" and a chemtrail which "clouds up the sky within hours" ?

Are you talking about silver iodide cloud seeding ?

It's well documented that that goes on and as I've already stated I don't doubt that all kinds of stuff may be getting delivered into the atmosphere. I'm just saying that when "chemtrail" observers look up into the sky, many (most) just decide at random that a whole lot of genuine vapour trails are "chemtrails" when they clearly have no clue. Vapour trails are "clouds", and get spread about like any other cloud if the conditions are right. They can appear, disappear, grow, shrink, whatever. They did this in the 70's and they do it today except there are a whole lot more of them around today given the 400% increase there's been in air traffic since the 70's.

Also, almost all commercial aircraft these days are painted white on their underside and I'm sure many genuine chemtrailer aircraft exist which are not white, so that's another myth that helps to "cloud" the issue, sorry for the pun.

The whole chemtrailing thing is just one massive disinfo campaign which generates more heat than light.

As with any field, there will be some genuine researchers digging up high quality evidence of corrupt practices of atmospheric contamination. I feel sorry for them because their work will just get buried in a tidal wave of antagonistic myth propagated by an army of Youtube Columbos with too much time on their hands.

[donk]

I think this is the dumbest argument ever.

IF the un-believers are correct, than there is the grounds for REAL action.

It is utterly and totally horrifying and offensive that airplanes are allowed to block out the sun, to change a crystal clear blue sky sunny day to the overcast purple gray bruise I experience nearly every day here in my little nook of the Northeast suburban sprawl.

If they are NOT purposely doing it...why isn't this a simple environmental emissions issue? If cars did this, would we accept it? If boats left a fog on top of the water that we can see--would we be ok with that? Why do we accept it from airplanes? At least force them to make the polluition/emmisions invisible!!

Stop wasting time over arguing what it is, and start getting people p!ssed off about "pollution". I don't care if it is water vapor, it DRASTICALLY changes the sky...in my "free" country.

Blocking out the sun is cartoonish supervillainy...next thing you know we'll accept them dumping industrial waste in the water supply under the guise of dental health...SHEESH!!

[donk]

Also, if they can't make planes without emmissions that block out the entire sky, it should be understood that the flight path is to fly directly into the pre-existing "contrail", so that there is just one real thick line, rather than a precise and exact grid pattern that occurs all too often around here.

I mean, if the pilots can't shift over just a little bit, why even have them? The planes pretty much fly themselves these days...

[Prodigal Son]

Another thing that people say which confuses me is that nowadays chemtrails "hang around" whereas years ago they didn't. I don't know where people get this from or if they just make it up.

I grew up in Queens NY right in the middle of the flight patterns of three major airports...there were all kinds of flights overhead all day at all different altitudes. I was a very observant little kid. I watched everything. Contrails ALWAYS disappeared within at most a few minutes and I NEVER saw one hang around for hours or turn into these wispy fake clouds that are everywhere today.

I'm kind of tired of people telling me I'm making stuff up which would insinuate some sort of "agenda" or even mental illness on my part. I NEVER saw lines all over the sky prior to the mid '90's, they simply did not exist, and I'm sick of people telling me that what I see today is "normal". Jet engines have improved in efficiency dramatically since the 70's and 80's so if anything we should have LESS trails and not more.

[Lost in Humanity]

If you have any doubts about the whole concept of Chem-trails then please feel free to tell me what I am constantly observing above my house. Over the past five years Ireland has been deprived of open sky almost daily. The link below is from what is now typically seen over the rural Irish skies. If you check the statistics you will find the average hours sunshine per day in Ireland for 2012 is ZERO. The only thing growing here is mould and fungus! I beg you, take 1 minute and 45 seconds to view this and educate me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQQoF09syaY

[donk]

If you have any doubts about the whole concept of Chem-trails then please feel free to tell me what I am constantly observing above my house. Over the past five years Ireland has been deprived of open sky almost daily. The link below is from what is now typically seen over the rural Irish skies. If you check the statistics you will find the average hours sunshine per day in Ireland for 2012 is ZERO. The only thing growing here is mould and fungus! I beg you, take 1 minute and 45 seconds to view this and educate me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQQoF09syaY

perfect example...so sorry you have to go through it, it is probably 6/7ths as bad where I leave.

Let's take the CHEM out of the equation. Make it an UNDENIABLE problem, and really really simple--airplanes create sun-free skies.

No one should have the right to modify anyone else's weather....even if it is with water vapor.

[blufire]

I posted the following on the chemtrails summary thread. I apologize for double posting but I think my message should begin to be heard more clearly.


This thread is the main reason why ‘they’ are chemtrailing our skies and specifically over populated areas.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59115-The-Third-X-class-Flare-in-24-Hours-

As I have stated in chemtrails threads before, while I lived in Kansas on my organic farm I witnessed chemtrails from the late 80’s and I also took several samples of the ‘sediment’ that would be all over my equipment and sometimes float on the ponds. The sediment was not always the same and neither I nor my animals ever suffered any ill effects.

They have been experimenting for years not only in weather modification but in trying to find a way to protect us from solar storms. These solar storms (cme, emp, solar radiation, other) is also primary reason for genetically modified organisms (GMO food). Some chemtrails are developed to block solar radiation and perhaps deflect. Some chemtrails do change weather because in the few years when solar flares and storms increase and climate change occur more rapidly I do pray they have developed someway to control our weather. Also too the gmo seeds and plants are being developed for this very same reason . . . to grow in hostile growing environments.

I am highly aware that most on this forum would rather believe ‘they’ are trying to kill us and are reptilian money hungry blood thirsty devils . . . . but this in it self is THE ploy and implanted. It is their intention for the truth to be diverted, because for the majority of humanity to understand that the death of millions is a very high possibility in the near future would cause MASSIVE pandemonium and chaos. ‘They’ would much rather we be diverted and pacified by the conspiracy theories.

They have been preparing for many years for all contingencies and working through the bugs as they go. And yes, there is collateral damage to humanity . . . . but look at the alternative if we don’t face what could happen . . . . look at today . . . . 3 massive solar flares. This is the truth and as always I am very aware that few will hear it.

[Sidney]

I think this is the dumbest argument ever.

IF the un-believers are correct, than there is the grounds for REAL action.

It is utterly and totally horrifying and offensive that airplanes are allowed to block out the sun, to change a crystal clear blue sky sunny day to the overcast purple gray bruise I experience nearly every day here in my little nook of the Northeast suburban sprawl.

If they are NOT purposely doing it...why isn't this a simple environmental emissions issue? If cars did this, would we accept it? If boats left a fog on top of the water that we can see--would we be ok with that? Why do we accept it from airplanes? At least force them to make the polluition/emmisions invisible!!

Stop wasting time over arguing what it is, and start getting people p!ssed off about "pollution". I don't care if it is water vapor, it DRASTICALLY changes the sky...in my "free" country.

Blocking out the sun is cartoonish supervillainy...next thing you know we'll accept them dumping industrial waste in the water supply under the guise of dental health...SHEESH!!



Um don't they already do this?? Although some areas are banning flouridation of the water supply, is ANYONE ANYWHERE banning chemtrails?

[Sidney]

I was a disbeliever of chemtrails until....one day I was watching a plane. I saw a thick white trail behind it. And then suddenly the trail stopped. The plane continued on its path, but no percievable trail. And then the thick white trail was back again. As if something had been switched off and then on again....

I watched the plane as it crossed the sky. The thick white trail remained, expanding. Except for the gap in the middle.

There was no way, as far as I could understand, that this could be a "normal" contrail.

Since then I have been watching planes alot. And I find it very hard to believe that these thick, expanding trails are normal.

Hey my friend,

Well, this phenomenon is quite explainable.

The level of moisture in the sky is not homogeneous, meaning that in the same altitude, there are "pockets" of humid and dry areas. Such variations precede the formation of clouds, which later form a visual demonstrative of such variations.

Contrails, or vapor trails, vary in aspect and duration according to a few atmospheric conditions, such as humidity, temperature, pollution, etc...

So, when an airplane, in the same altitude and speed, passes through areas with different levels of moisture, the appearance of its contrails may indeed change dramatically, giving that intermittent look you describe.

I´d like to note that I DO believe in chemtrails. However, most chemtrail pictures are indeed misinterpretations of regular contrails.

The most common argument I read about distinguishing contrails from chemtrails is about duration; They say contrails are not supposed to last long. However, this argument is very flawed. Contrails, by nature, are condensed water particles, like clouds, and, just like clouds, they can last long or not, or even not manifest at all, depending on the atmospheric conditions.

So, as far as I know, there´s no practical way to actually visually differentiate between contrails and chemtrails.

The only solid evidence about chemtrails are the chemical analyzes of air and soil that indeed had detected unusual substances several times.

Raf.

There is, if you KNOW what you are looking at. The type of plane, the altitude, and what the cloud looks like after its formed. Even the invisible CHEMTRAIL spray, leaves behind a telltale "film" in the sky leaving it baby blue instead of sky blue.


BEFORE
21404


AFTER
21405


Yes FOlks, when I was a kid, the top photo WAS the color of the sky EVERY DAY

[blufire]

I think this is the dumbest argument ever.

IF the un-believers are correct, than there is the grounds for REAL action.

It is utterly and totally horrifying and offensive that airplanes are allowed to block out the sun, to change a crystal clear blue sky sunny day to the overcast purple gray bruise I experience nearly every day here in my little nook of the Northeast suburban sprawl.

If they are NOT purposely doing it...why isn't this a simple environmental emissions issue? If cars did this, would we accept it? If boats left a fog on top of the water that we can see--would we be ok with that? Why do we accept it from airplanes? At least force them to make the polluition/emmisions invisible!!

Stop wasting time over arguing what it is, and start getting people p!ssed off about "pollution". I don't care if it is water vapor, it DRASTICALLY changes the sky...in my "free" country.

Blocking out the sun is cartoonish supervillainy...next thing you know we'll accept them dumping industrial waste in the water supply under the guise of dental health...SHEESH!!

Um don't they already do this?? Although some areas are banning flouridation of the water supply, is ANYONE ANYWHERE banning chemtrails?


Nope. . . and chemtrails will not ever be banned anymore than gmo food will ever be banned.

Because we need the scientific technology that both of these provide to humanity not only now but as our planet climate changes even more rapidly and because the chances of being side swiped by an cme or solar storm is very likely and could even happen today.

The banner on the s forum says Chronicles of the human awakening . . . where science and spirituality meet. This realization of chemtrails and gmo food is a small part of my personal awakening and I need to begin to chronicle it more fully. I am both very scientific and spiritual and recently my spirit has been enhancing my more scientific ‘parts’

[blufire]

perfect example...so sorry you have to go through it, it is probably 6/7ths as bad where I leave.

Let's take the CHEM out of the equation. Make it an UNDENIABLE problem, and really really simple--airplanes create sun-free skies.

No one should have the right to modify anyone else's weather....even if it is with water vapor.


What if there are those who understand more fully what we are facing and the weather modification is being implemented to save your hind end? ;)

[donk]

To me, this is the same as the “benevolent alien” scenario. I am sure there are plenty pro-human billionaire types in the places/positions and with the resources to contribute in a “positive” way to the species as a whole. But staying IN THE DARK about it, is exactly that.

I have a hard time empathizing with points of view where “benevolence” is somehow achieved from a hidden agenda. I’m tired of being treated as a child, incapable of hearing the truth, being feared in the face that I (and the masses) may “panic”.

If there is evidence proving that which you claim (that which many of us believe, in fact), than it should be taught, transmitted, and spread. As sovereign beings, we say EFF YOU to those that act from fear, who operate in the dark, who take responsibility away from us, and hoard resources and energy and ideas…rather than leading us, as one, to some common destiny, utilizing the contributions and talents of the entirety of the population.

ON behalf of those humans with limited means (and therefore virtually NO voice): I want my planet back. If I don’t get to have sunny days, I want to know why. If the reason is no good, I want it to stop.

[Sidney]

perfect example...so sorry you have to go through it, it is probably 6/7ths as bad where I leave.

Let's take the CHEM out of the equation. Make it an UNDENIABLE problem, and really really simple--airplanes create sun-free skies.

No one should have the right to modify anyone else's weather....even if it is with water vapor.


What if there are those who understand more fully what we are facing and the weather modification is being implemented to save your hind end? ;)

cHEMTRAILS make me ILL. Sunshine and ORGANIC food the way GOD made it, heal me.

[blufire]

Hi donk . . . I posted the following on another thread and if fits nicely here.

I also find it interesting that this thread is a split from Clif High’s thread because the webbot reports are one tool that enabled me to begin seeing the bigger picture to everything currently happening at such a maniacal pace.




Whether it is Area 51 and the extra terrestrial technology and evidence kept there or the underground cities and the other “Known Unknowns”, we know the relative truth to all of them and their function and existence.

. . . . and not because there are whistleblowers or insiders that give us this information but because ‘they’ release enough information so those “Who have ears will hear”. We know what the globalists are planning and preparing for we just don’t want to confront or admit it and adapt to it.

Why? I always wonder.

“They’ give us enough info so that we can make an educated responsible choice to our future and the future of those in our lives.

Yet few do . . . narrow is the path.

Most sit in their despair and apathy and whine and complain that the government, elite, ET’s or whoever isn’t coming to their rescue and/or lay it all out in black and white and even then most will still feel it is ‘their’ responsibility to fix it for each and every human on the planet earth and especially for the individual.

If I sound irritated and frustrated it is because I am.

Everything we absolutely need to know about our lives and future is right there in the open . . . .everything. And deep down everyone of us knows the truth . . . .we just don’t want to face it.

The majority of humans want all the creature comforts that we have come to enjoy and rely on in ‘first world countries’ but at the same time treat those who have enabled us to obtain those creature comforts with disdain and hatred.

We choose each day our fate and destiny and the bottom line is, if you are not riding out with resolve to meet your Destiny you will most certainly be stampeded by Fate.

Choose and then be a peace with that choice . . . in all things of Life.

[Camilo]

The crosshatched trails that everyone refers to as the chemtrail grid are very easy to explain. Planes follow designated flight paths, like highways in the sky. A plane goes through and leaves a vapor trail. The wind shifts this trail and when the next plane comes through it leaves a parallel trail. There are thousands of commercial flights a day and the patterns add up quickly.

Yeah right, keep fooling yourself about it.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Chemtrails is a difficult subject for me.

Most of what people call "chemtrails" are actually not chemtrails at all. They are just regular vapour trails. Nobody on the ground can tell the difference between a chemtrail and a regular vapour trail, despite all the hysteria. Take your statement, corson, for example:


here where i live in western pennsylvania, the chemtrails have been quadrupled up. by this i mean usually we could see a plane very high up leaving a single trail behind

Regular vapour trails are always multiple. Thats because planes have 2 or 4 engines.

Another thing that people say which confuses me is that nowadays chemtrails "hang around" whereas years ago they didn't. I don't know where people get this from or if they just make it up. Vapour trails can hang around and form clouds (a vapour trail IS a cloud) if they are a couple of hundred miles ahead of a warm front for example, where there is enough moisture in the upper atmosphere close to saturation for the vapour trail to persist and spread out.

i.e. what I'm pointing out is that the surrounding atmosphere has far more to say about the appearance of a vapour trail than any chemical impurities in the fuel could (or other "stuff" thats being sprayed).

I'm sure that "chemtrail spraying" activity goes on - it has been since the 50's in weather modification tests. But its not what the "chemtrail community" say it is. I've seen hundreds of chemtrail photographs around the internet and every single one is just a regular vapour trail to me. People just look up in the sky and are generally clueless about what they're seeing - despite that call "chemtrail" at every turn.

I don't think this is a healthy state of affairs.

Perhaps where you live reality is not the same as in the USA regarding this issue.

[blufire]

perfect example...so sorry you have to go through it, it is probably 6/7ths as bad where I leave.

Let's take the CHEM out of the equation. Make it an UNDENIABLE problem, and really really simple--airplanes create sun-free skies.

No one should have the right to modify anyone else's weather....even if it is with water vapor.


What if there are those who understand more fully what we are facing and the weather modification is being implemented to save your hind end? ;)

cHEMTRAILS make me ILL. Sunshine and ORGANIC food the way GOD made it, heal me.

Wantsthetruth74. . . I have literally been outside hundreds of times on my organic farm in Kansas with chemtrails stuff sifting through the air. I have swept it off my farm equipment and sent it to labs to be analyzed . . . I have never gotten sick or ill from handling, breathing or growing in it.

But I will tell you what makes me feel very ill and exhausted is being battered by X class solar flares and especially like the past couple days. One of the reasons I am posting so much this afternoon is I am in my bed resting with intense fog behind my eyes.

[donk]

Choose and then be a peace with that choice . . . in all things of Life.

I will not be at peace as long as there are individuals and/or groups using information or “known unknowns” that impose on my will.

“Relative Truths” and leaked “truth” fragments and obscured info and disinfo (LIES) don’t cut it for me.

[blufire]

Choose and then be a peace with that choice . . . in all things of Life.

I will not be at peace as long as there are individuals and/or groups using information or “known unknowns” that impose on my will.

“Relative Truths” and leaked “truth” fragments and obscured info and disinfo (LIES) don’t cut it for me.


And this my friend is what YOU have specifically CHOSEN at this point in your journey.

And with this particular choice comes angst.

Simply step aside and let the chaos rush by.

[donk]

But I will tell you what makes me feel very ill and exhausted is being battered by X class solar flares and especially like the past couple days. One of the reasons I am posting so much this afternoon is I am in my bed resting with intense fog behind my eyes. Parent Post

i am sorry that you are ill. But can you provide me the information that you have, which is in plain and available, "right out in the open", showing how the vapor and/or chemicals protect us from solar flares? I would like to face that truth


Simply step aside and let the chaos rush by.

I can't, i have a serious problem...shrink calls it "thriving from chaos" :rolleyes::p;)

...I'm working on it though :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[blufire]

But I will tell you what makes me feel very ill and exhausted is being battered by X class solar flares and especially like the past couple days. One of the reasons I am posting so much this afternoon is I am in my bed resting with intense fog behind my eyes. Parent Post

i am sorry that you are ill. But can you provide me the information that you have, which is in plain and available, "right out in the open", showing how the vapor and/or chemicals protect us from solar flares? I would like to face that truth


Simply step aside and let the chaos rush by.

I can't, i have a serious problem...shrink calls it "thriving from chaos" :rolleyes::p;)

...I'm working on it though :rolleyes::rolleyes:


Yes I can.

In Kansas (I now live deep in the Appalachian Mountains) I owned and operated a 75 acre organic vegetable and fruit farm. During the periods they were spraying heavily with the more ‘metal’ sprays (aluminum barium etc) the growth of my more sun loving plants (tomatoes, peppers etc) were stunted or stressed. The more delicate plants (micro greens, sugar peas etc) that prefer shade or less sun thrived. During the periods that little chemtrail spraying occurred ALL plants suffered from the intense heat and of the sun.

I adapted my growing by having ‘high tunnels’ built so I could regulate the intensity of the sun daily using different ‘shade cloth’.



And if you love chaos then I’d so go for it because out of chaos comes order :cool:

[donk]

It is good that you learned the consequences of someone else's decision (to spray...or to disbeleivers--to allow airplane exhaust to blot out sun), but what I am saying is that it would be nice to know the intent and all information available about the actual decision itself.


I know, I'm dreaming. But that's the problem. I can say you are speculating, unless you know the truth...which SOMEONE does. I thought you were suggesting THAT was what was in plain sight...I misunderstood, sorry :o

[blufire]

It is good that you learned the consequences of someone else's decision (to spray...or to disbeleivers--to allow airplane exhaust to blot out sun), but what I am saying is that it would be nice to know the intent and all information available about the actual decision itself.


I know, I'm dreaming. But that's the problem. I can say you are speculating, unless you know the truth...which SOMEONE does. I thought you were suggesting THAT was what was in plain sight...I misunderstood, sorry :o

Donk . . it is in plain sight. Truth is what you see right before your eyes when you remove all the fluff or smoke

If you put all the ‘known unknowns’ together, all the research, all the clues, it is obvious.

And then look at all this logically and I mean pure unemotional logic. . . why would ‘they’ chemtrail or create technology to block the sun or modify the climate? Why would they create gmo seeds and plants that can thrive in hostile environments?

Then take a good long look at what ‘they’ have been doing to cover all contingencies, like building underground cities.

The globalists are anticipating solar storms and severe climate change . . . because it is cyclical over time and we are seeing it . . .IN PLAIN SIGHT NOW

Also the globalists are using what they know is cyclical to their advantage to implement a global government during the chaos of all the climate disasters we have been enduring for years now and as the weather and sun intensifies so will they ramp up the implementation of a one world government.

And I won’t even begin to voice how I have come to feel or understand about a global government. . .

[donk]

And then look at all this logically and I mean pure unemotional logic. . . why would ‘they’ chemtrail or create technology to block the sun or modify the climate? Why would they create gmo seeds and plants that can thrive in hostile environments?



Because they hate us for our freedoms??


Seriously...I guess we're just different in that I refuse to be attached to any "feelings" or "understandings" about "global government" or whoever is spraying (or refuses to make emission standards on jet planes) until they tell me. And present evidence. And their intent.

And even then, I might be skeptical. ;)

[Sidney]

perfect example...so sorry you have to go through it, it is probably 6/7ths as bad where I leave.

Let's take the CHEM out of the equation. Make it an UNDENIABLE problem, and really really simple--airplanes create sun-free skies.

No one should have the right to modify anyone else's weather....even if it is with water vapor.


What if there are those who understand more fully what we are facing and the weather modification is being implemented to save your hind end? ;)

cHEMTRAILS make me ILL. Sunshine and ORGANIC food the way GOD made it, heal me.

Wantsthetruth74. . . I have literally been outside hundreds of times on my organic farm in Kansas with chemtrails stuff sifting through the air. I have swept it off my farm equipment and sent it to labs to be analyzed . . . I have never gotten sick or ill from handling, breathing or growing in it.

But I will tell you what makes me feel very ill and exhausted is being battered by X class solar flares and especially like the past couple days. One of the reasons I am posting so much this afternoon is I am in my bed resting with intense fog behind my eyes.

My immune system is already taxed from Lyme disease (thanks to our governments BIOLAB on plum island), so I am sensitive to toxins. Childhood asthma has increase by 800 % in the last 15 years (I believe I read that statistic somewhere), but the statistic that MSM is releasing is just 160%. I am sure they don't want ppl knowing what is really causing the increase. Alzheimers has gone off the charts too, in increase, with a DIRECT correlation between heavy metal toxicity and alzheimers, depression, anger and many other neurological and mood disorders. It accumulated over time, and when your liver says "ok I cant filter anymore metal", then things start to go wrong. Some people it takes longer than others. Some have extra hardy filtering systems via liver kidneys, but almost everyone I know, knows someone that has some kind of neuro problems whether they have been properly diagnosed or not..
FWIW, normally with cme's and solar flares, I am bedridden, and get depressed/moody,exhausted, headache of the worst kind. We have had 3 in 24 hours, and being chronically ill, I am used to feeling like shiit. But I kid you not, yesterday, I was overcome with endless energy. Got the whole damm house clean, floors and all. It was WEIRD. Then I realized we have had zero spraying for the last 2 or 3 days. Could have been the solar thing I guess. I will never know. I do feel better when the sun is out. When its all clouded up with fake clouds I feel like crap. Today not so much, but I was not sick like I usually get. the sun certainly affects us, and I know that the reflective properties of chemtrails may be helpful in that area, but they don't have my permission to FORCE me to breathe metal. They don't have my permission to take away my sun, when I am blessed with pure vitamin D and many other benefits. The trees and bees and animals are dying, People are dying of undiagnosed diseases. A friend of a friend of mine, passed away the day before yesterrday. She was 39 years old. It is not a coincidence.

The thing is, if there is something that they need to "protect" us from, they need to come out with it and say, its going to cost this many trillions, and this is what were going to do, and you need to chelate properly to get rid of it.

But no, they STEAL trillions to pay for it, from us. Then they poison us with our own money. I can't tell you haw many times I headed to the lake in the summer, only to get there and 2 hours later its cold and cloudy. It happens all the time. They take away my right to have recreational pleasure, to enjoy the great outdoors, the way it is suppose to be. What they are doing is wrong. Financially, morally, and legally. Have you seen the people with morgellons?? Try to tell them that the gov is trying to save our ass from something, when they have mechanical fibers crawling out of their skin. I could go on and on and on. But I'm done ranting on the subject.
BTW, your organic farm is not organic. Its full of metal and god knows what else. And If you don't think so, then I am wasting my breath. There is no such thing as organic, unless you have a greenhouse with heavily filtered water for irrigation.