California dad 'begged for his life' as police beat him to death

[InCiDeR]

California dad 'begged for his life' as police beat him to death - witnesses


A California father of four died Wednesday shortly after a group of police allegedly beat him with batons as he lay defenseless on the sidewalk. Cops, before confiscating witness' cameras, also reportedly unleashed a canine unit on him.

David Sal Silva, 33, allegedly resisted when police approached him to ask if he was who neighbors called about to complain of an intoxicated man in the area. The officers called for backup and, witnesses told the Bakersfield Californian, Silva was soon being beaten in the face and upper body by as many as nine policemen and their batons. At least one of the cops reportedly held a German Shepherd on a leash nearby.

Witnesses who had recorded the events on their cell phone cameras had the devices confiscated by officers, who claimed the footage was part of a police investigation that could yield evidence. The Sherriff’s Department has released the names of seven officers who were on the scene, but the identities of the California Highway Patrol police who were also there have not yet been made public.

“When I got outside I saw two officers beating a man with batons, and they were hitting his head so every time they would swing, I could hear the blows to his head,” said witness Ruben Ceballos, who told the Californian the noise was so loud it woke him up.

“His body was just lying on the street and before the ambulance arrived one of the officers performed CPR on him and another used a flashlight on his eyes but I’m sure he was already dead.”

Police have refused to comment, citing an ongoing investigation that could take years to complete, but relatives have demanded the cell phone footage be made public.

“My brother spent the last eight minutes of his life pleading, begging for his life,” said Christopher Silva, 31. “The true evidence is in those phone witnesses that apparently the sheriff deputies already took. But I know the truth will come out and my brother’s voice will be heard.”

An autopsy was completed Thursday but the cause of death’s release is pending a toxicology report and microscopic studies, the local coroner’s office told the Bakersfield Californian Friday.

The family has hired attorney David Cohn, who told reporters they plan to file a civil rights lawsuit in federal district court next week. He sent a letter formally requesting that law enforcement agencies do not tamper with the video evidence on the phones.

“We all know that a picture is worth a thousand words,” Cohn said. “And thank God we have concerned citizens who take video and pictures of incidents like this and who are ultimately policing the police … But we will get to the bottom of this and I ask the sheriff’s department once again, what are you hiding?”
Source (http://rt.com/usa/begged-for-life-cops-beat-126/)


Is this some kind of aftermath of Boston Bombings and its martial law?!

[Orph]

Is this some kind of aftermath of Boston Bombings and its martial law?!Nothing to do with Boston. Police in the U.S. have always enjoyed beating the crap out of people. They like to kill people too. I can tell you from personal experience that cops escalate the tension rather than calm things down. And if a person does anything, and I mean anything, to resist, then out come the guns and the clubs. Even when the cops outnumber the so called bad guy by 5 or 6 or more, they still feel the need to beat the snot out of, or even shoot and kill the victim. Mark my word, you will hear exactly this as an excuse, ......... "I feared for my life", or "I feared for the pubic safety". Those are always standard excuses when they kill somebody.

[InCiDeR]

Is this some kind of aftermath of Boston Bombings and its martial law?!Nothing to do with Boston. Police in the U.S. have always enjoyed beating the crap out of people. They like to kill people too. I can tell you from personal experience that cops escalate the tension rather than calm things down. And if a person does anything, and I mean anything, to resist, then out come the guns and the clubs. Even when the cops outnumber the so called bad guy by 5 or 6 or more, they still feel the need to beat the snot out of, or even shoot and kill the victim. Mark my word, you will hear exactly this as an excuse, ......... "I feared for my life", or "I feared for the pubic safety". Those are always standard excuses when they kill somebody.

Yes. That the police enjoy beating a person, so much have I understood during the years... but beat someone to death is a whole different case! Is that really common in U.S?

[Orph]

Yes. That the police enjoy beating a person, so much have I understood during the years... but beat someone to death is a whole different case! Is that really common in U.S?Lets see, one homeless man holding a broken tree branch and five cops. Outcome? If you guessed all five cops open fire on the homeless man killing him you guessed right. Okay, how about one man with a cement trowel against multiple cops. Outcome? If you guessed cops open fire killing the man you guessed right. Two guys get in a fight on a saturday night. No big deal right? Happens all the time. Until the cops show up and then one of the guys ends up shot dead by the cops. It just goes on and on.

[InCiDeR]

Yes. That the police enjoy beating a person, so much have I understood during the years... but beat someone to death is a whole different case! Is that really common in U.S?Lets see, one homeless man holding a broken tree branch and five cops. Outcome? If you guessed all five cops open fire on the homeless man killing him you guessed right. Okay, how about one man with a cement trowel against multiple cops. Outcome? If you guessed cops open fire killing the man you guessed right. Two guys get in a fight on a saturday night. No big deal right? Happens all the time. Until the cops show up and then one of the guys ends up shot dead by the cops. It just goes on and on.

How frequent is this? Are we talking about several cases a week here?

If that is the case. Why do not people do something about this? Have they become so indifferent to police brutality so they don't see it anymore? Or is it more like "It is not my problem as long as it not happens to me"? Or maybe they believe the Police is doing the right thing and in the end protect them?

[Orph]

How frequent is this? Are we talking about several cases a week here?

This happens a lot. The problem is, it's part of the system. How do you fight it? It happens all across America. If a case against a cop does go to trial, the cop gets off the hook. Every time. It's always the exact same two excuses I mentioned above that allows the cops to literally get away with murder. And cops take (or should I say steal), cell phones and video cameras of people that take pictures of this stuff happening. It's crazy.

Nothing more to be said by me.

[InCiDeR]

How frequent is this? Are we talking about several cases a week here?

This happens a lot. The problem is, it's part of the system. How do you fight it? It happens all across America. If a case against a cop does go to trial, the cop gets off the hook. Every time. It's always the exact same two excuses I mentioned above that allows the cops to literally get away with murder. And cops take (or should I say steal), cell phones and video cameras of people that take pictures of this stuff happening. It's crazy.

Nothing more to be said by me.

Then U.S. is in a worse shape than I could ever fathom. I know this happened every now and then, but not at this frequency.

How do you fight the system?

By non-compliance. If you give up or look away you will be a part of the problem in my opinion. The power lies with the people. In one way or another we have to wake them.

[JohnEAngel]

How frequent is this? Are we talking about several cases a week here?

This happens a lot. The problem is, it's part of the system. How do you fight it? It happens all across America. If a case against a cop does go to trial, the cop gets off the hook. Every time. It's always the exact same two excuses I mentioned above that allows the cops to literally get away with murder. And cops take (or should I say steal), cell phones and video cameras of people that take pictures of this stuff happening. It's crazy.

Nothing more to be said by me.

although i am not a fan of any type of law enforcement i would have to say that cops do not get off the hook 'every time'. just as in the civilian population there are rotten eggs of a particular ratio, so are there in any specific population. for the record, if these cops are guilty of beating this guy to death then i would hope that justice will be served.

[bram]

If it's really as bad as some of you guys say, then surely the answer is a concealed recording device- using a phone cam is obvious to the cops, however the technology must exist to have a small wireless webcam wired into the frame of your glasses- when you see something like this, just put on your shades (CSI miami style), click the switch and record.

Once its on u-tube, it will be impossible for the cops to deny it, or even to identify who recorded them. Any such devices exist?

[ThePythonicCow]

If it's really as bad as some of you guys say, then surely the answer is a concealed recording device- using a phone cam is obvious to the cops, however the technology must exist to have a small wireless webcam wired into the frame of your glasses- when you see something like this, just put on your shades (CSI miami style), click the switch and record.
I have dreams of getting such a device for myself -- along with a more visible phone camera. Run both in such a situation. Complain but give in grudgingly when the cops want the phone camera. Lay low and be very careful with how I handle the recording on the second concealed camera.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

cyclists are in a good position to witness and record police violence on their helmet cams.
i'd get a good hidden helmet cam if such a thing exists.
there are also sunglasses with hidden cameras, etc.

this stuff doesn't need to happen... it always seems to happen to mexicans and blacks, too....
the police in Seattle treated me decently compared to the way they treat blacks and mexicans here...

we had a native american woodcarver shot dead crossing the street with a carving knife,
and a cop was caught on camera while attacking a mexican on the ground, saying "i am gonna beat the mexican piss out of you"...

people keep getting shot from cars, and shot while sleeping in their cars.
there are lots of mass murders and crimes against the police here, too.

my dad told me seattle was dangerous and now i understand why

[meeradas]

If it's really as bad as some of you guys say, then surely the answer is a concealed recording device- using a phone cam is obvious to the cops, however the technology must exist to have a small wireless webcam wired into the frame of your glasses- when you see something like this, just put on your shades (CSI miami style), click the switch and record.
I have dreams of getting such a device for myself -- along with a more visible phone camera. Run both in such a situation. Complain but give in grudgingly when the cops want the phone camera. Lay low and be very careful with how I handle the recording on the second concealed camera.

You must have heard of this :

http://www.google.com/glass/start/what-it-does/

Most interesting feature in this regard should be "Even share what you see. Live.". That'd be it for those cops... [I [I]am aware of the dark possibilities of the feature/ the device itself]


There's also ballpen cams and the like available for everyone, nowadays.


I do hope they missed one or two persons "taping" the incident...

[westhill]

So when do we stop filming/witnessing with our phones and step in to stop a man from getting beat to death right in front of us?
How many here could stand by and just let this happen and my god just film it! To hear the man plead for his life and
still stand back at a safe distance. The press in of a few bystanders and a couple to well placed words could have been all needed to
disrupt the momentum (take the focus off the beaten man). Wow, we are a nation of sheep documenting our own slaughter.

[music]

There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. But always — do not forget this, Winston — always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever

[Knowrainknowrainbows!]

So when do we stop filming/witnessing with our phones and step in to stop a man from getting beat to death right in front of us?
How many here could stand by and just let this happen and my god just film it! To hear the man plead for his life and
still stand back at a safe distance. The press in of a few bystanders and a couple to well placed words could have been all needed to
disrupt the momentum (take the focus off the beaten man). Wow, we are a nation of sheep documenting our own slaughter.

This IS the problem to the problem and the solution. Thank you for raising the conversation to another level.
Peace is possible.

KRKR

[Bill Ryan]

If it's really as bad as some of you guys say, then surely the answer is a concealed recording device- using a phone cam is obvious to the cops, however the technology must exist to have a small wireless webcam wired into the frame of your glasses- when you see something like this, just put on your shades (CSI miami style), click the switch and record.

Once its on u-tube, it will be impossible for the cops to deny it, or even to identify who recorded them. Any such devices exist?


http://www.uspystore.com/video-surveillance-body-worn-cameras.html

[Knowrainknowrainbows!]

If someone is unable to stop/interrupt a violent act, instead of recording it ... call for help!
Call 911 as in any other emergency.
Call family/friends to report it to news.
Mass text/tweet.

Just thinkin'
KRKR

[bram]

So when do we stop filming/witnessing with our phones and step in to stop a man from getting beat to death right in front of us?
How many here could stand by and just let this happen and my god just film it! To hear the man plead for his life and
still stand back at a safe distance. The press in of a few bystanders and a couple to well placed words could have been all needed to
disrupt the momentum (take the focus off the beaten man). Wow, we are a nation of sheep documenting our own slaughter.

Did you see the other story of the woman who was filming the cops beating up some kid? They dragged her out of her car by the hair, smashed her camera, beat her up (about six of them) and arrested her. She had her two year old kid in the car with her. She is currently trying to sue the cops, but with little success.

If you try to step in, you will get beat up and arrested. You might get shot dead too.

[Vitalux]

California dad 'begged for his life' as police beat him to death - witnesses


thank you for sharing this.
Other than gasp in shock and fear, most will just take in this information like a dramatic movie and shake their head. :drama:

There is no Law and Order. What is the sense of having laws if the ones making the laws do not have to obey them.

The police and government break any laws with complete impunity. :bounce:

and label those to try to call attention to it, terrorist.
what a scam :twitch:


How much are the American People going to take:rant: before they rise up and take action to stop this insanity. :der:


My guess is much like watching a good drama movie on television, we all like to complain rather than get off our asses and fix it.


Solution is easy, the people must throw the criminals in charge out of office and replace them with a government that is by the people, for the people.
Not this crap that exists now.

Perhaps part of our reason for living is to be willing to die for human rights.

[Dennis Leahy]

So when do we stop filming/witnessing with our phones and step in to stop a man from getting beat to death right in front of us?
How many here could stand by and just let this happen and my god just film it! To hear the man plead for his life and still stand back at a safe distance.
...
Wow, we are a nation of sheep documenting our own slaughter.This is exactly correct.


The press in of a few bystanders and a couple to well placed words could have been all needed to disrupt the momentum (take the focus off the beaten man).

But, the person stepping forward will also be beaten, and arrested for "interfering with a police officer", or maybe killed. Will this action actually stop the cop(s), or simply be an excuse for the cop(s) to escalate their violence? The person stepping forward would hope that many others would also step forward and simply restrain the cops by sheer volume, which is the only possible way the violence would be stopped. More realistically, one brave soul would step forward - and receive massive punishment for their bravery.

The "home of the brave" line from the national anthem is a major irony - and the punchline of a joke. There is plenty of violence between individuals in the US, almost always where there is a major difference in power (gang against one, man against woman, adult against child, big physical guy against smaller gentle person, person with badge/taser/gun/backup against lone civilian), and the instigator of the violence is more powerful. Nothing brave about it. There are instances of people showing bravery to help out someone who is being attacked, but it is extremely rare for this to be when someone tries to step in when cops are committing crimes. It would almost HAVE to be instinctual bravery, because if the person stops and thinks about the ramifications of trying to stop a cop... well, it would freeze almost anyone.

The judicial system is utterly corrupt in the US. Anyone who does not know this is operating from theory, not experience. No matter what the cops do, they are given deference in court. Note I didn't say they are "believed" in court; the judge probably does not believe them, but will always defer to them. No matter what the cops do to a person who was trying to stop a cop from committing a crime, the person is instantly a criminal and subject to whatever sadism and rage is bottled-up in the cop (and his buddies with badges.) Then, if they live through the event, the full weight of the "justice" system will come down on them.

Land of the slaves. Home of the cowards (with exceedingly rare exceptions.) What would I do? People are tested by real situations, not by theoretical words. I hope I don't have to find out.

The OP is not about protest, but this does make me segue into the fact that I now strongly recommend against street protest. Street protest is 100% ineffective (no one in power is listening - no one in power cares.) By stepping into the street protest arena in a police state, a person immediately becomes vulnerable to anything any cop decides to do - it makes no difference if a protester was completely non-violent, holding up a sign and chanting. The protester WILL be found guilty of whatever that cop says happened. Agents provocateur are used if the cops want footage to convince the teevee watchers that the cops were justified in their actions.

Dennis

[Mike Gorman]

There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. But always — do not forget this, Winston — always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever

Yes indeed, 1984, the wielders of power will always believe themselves to be just, to be good and to be right: George Orwell's book has been used so often as the template
for modern Fascistic evil that people have become immune to its message-and the nerve endings that once reacted in abhorrence are now dulled with daily stimulation-mainstream media
presents such footage, and we go on eating our dinners and yawn, masticating our processed cud. Definitely it is planned that way-to make us uncaring, un-reactive and accepting-a boot stamping on a human face, forever-are we really awake?

[Bill Ryan]

-------

This seems to be the video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwnkvTmYVxM

[ThePythonicCow]

There's also ballpen cams and the like available for everyone, nowadays.
My problem is that I have champagne tastes for gadgets, on a beer budget.

It has been my problem my entire life :). When I was living in a 30 foot by 8 boot aging trailer with two others, with no indoor plumbing, as a child, I owned a fine K&E mahogany slide rule and a Cross gold pen, that I earned the hard way, working while attending school.

I've gotten lazier in my old age, so my inflation adjusted income is smaller now, but I'd still rather not have such a camera gadget unless I had one of excellent design and construction.

[Flash]

when I read "how much the American people are going to take before they rise up", everytime I read this, I have a disdain grin.

Why, because nobody will ever rise to anything. It would have to be absolutely desperate to have people to rise and yet, haven't you seen Africa? Haven't you seen many South American countries? Haven't you heard about Pol Pot in Cambodia?

Even in dying situations, people do not rise up. I truly do not know what it would take.

[BIG CAT]

I am so glad that most cops in the UK don't carry guns.
Bet it's only a matter of time though.

[InCiDeR]

We have been talking about this problem for ages. What have we really accomplished? Yes, we ourselves have grown to an understanding. But what about our significant others? Have anything changed within them? Nothing much huh? Why? Are we leading by example or are we just talking? How many here are willing to really give up what is feeding the snake and cut its head of?

It is much easier to fight for principles than to live up to them and it takes a far braver human to stand up for what is right and non-compliance in the face of authority than it does to blindly follow orders due to fear of the consequences.

Are we willing to give up our convenient life. Give up the things we take for granted? One year ago I did that. I throw out 42 years of living, left my well-paid work and walked out from my resigned apartment with nothing else than my clothes, a tent and a laptop! Honestly, I have never felt so relieved in my whole life!

I am not saying that is the solution for everyone or to anything, but I believe it is a beginning. Instead of me trying to "push" hints to my friends and family, like I did before and which they never listened to. They now ask me questions why I did this, because they want to know... and guess what, now they listening! So why not start with something small, like not using your car or withdraw your money from your bank?

The Anger Agenda – Don’t Fall For It

#1. Inform. True information clears the deck. It neutralizes the effects of the enemy’s propaganda. That has to be done first.

#2. Live in alignment with your convictions. We can’t speak truth to the lie while living within its bondage. Break free, in any and every way we can. Screw the consequences if it’s matrix stuff. Not worth worrying about. “Lead, follow, or get out of the way” as they say.

#3. Persist. As we follow on in a conviction of the power of Truth and Love it will lead each of us on to more ways of having a greater effect.

#4. Teach others. Mainly by example. If you live a committed life and have paid the price of giving up your cozy life of security for one of spiritual fulfillment and helping to change the world, others will follow. We don’t cram anything down anyone’s throats. We live by example and share the enlightening Truth that will only speak for itself.
Source (http://www.zengardner.com/the-anger-agenda-dont-fall-for-it/)

How can we ever believe that we will change the world and awaken people if we not even can awaken our close ones or are ready to change ourselves? A revolution always starts with one person, one idea, one force... namely yourself.

[Poly Hedra]

"In 2011, Westpoint Graduate and Iraq Veteran Antonio Buehler was arrested for taking pictures of two cops abusing a woman they had pulled over in Austin, TX. He was accused of spitting in one of the cop's face and charged with a felony. Luckily for him, there was someone filming the whole incident from across the street and showed that it was actually the cops who were the aggressors. Since that incident, Antonio has launched the Peaceful Streets Program which aims to bring accountability to police and their actions and to encourage people to flex their rights by filming the police."

qJgRjL2d_W8

Peaceful Streets Project website
http://peacefulstreets.com/

Youtube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/PeacefulStreets

[Lifebringer]

Is that really common in U.S?

Bwahahahahahah! He// Yes it's true, but it had to hit the other neighborhoods, for people to care.


Really, it's time for equality on the the JUSTICE of the laws for all. NOT JUST "US", but JUSTICE FOR ALL. If the "singled out, separate/supremacist message, hasn't reached you yet, just look at the uniform and badge to kill ya.

Ordinary citizens KNOW this, but the pampered middleclass and rich, who have people in their families that aren't rich, don't. It's ONLY when it reaches their neighborhoods, like the mentally ill homeless guy in Oregon or Seattle, begging for his "Daddy help!" does the trumpet sound begin to blare the last nerve.

Look "injustice ANYWHERE, is injustice EVERYWHERE." Those who remain neutral in the battle of good vs. evil, will be granting approval of those who do the wrong.

[Earth Angel]

thank you for saying that.....just what I was wondering .....it reminds me of a story I read today about a Stuart Wilde seminar in Copenhagen....he asked the people what had happened to the Vikings that these people all stood around at a stop light waiting to be told it was ok to cross the road when there wasn't a car in sight......we have slowly been trained to give up our own free will......we can't even cross the road without permission from a light! so can you wonder why so many people would stand there watching this happen and just FILM it.....it is really a pathetic statement of what we have let ourselves become


So when do we stop filming/witnessing with our phones and step in to stop a man from getting beat to death right in front of us?
How many here could stand by and just let this happen and my god just film it! To hear the man plead for his life and
still stand back at a safe distance. The press in of a few bystanders and a couple to well placed words could have been all needed to
disrupt the momentum (take the focus off the beaten man). Wow, we are a nation of sheep documenting our own slaughter.

[northstar]

I am not condoning the brutal violence of these and other bad cops. Obviously, these killer cops need to be removed from their jobs immediately and charged with murder.

However, I personally know many good cops, men and women who truly take their vows to "protect and serve" very seriously. They do a very difficult job and they lay their lives on the line for all of us.

It is a crying shame that the actions of a few psychopathic cops stains the good name and reputation of the great majority who do a very challenging job with courage, intelligence and humanity.

[Linda Joy Crutcher]

There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. But always — do not forget this, Winston — always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever

Human nature lives in resistance; combine that with human ego, fear and ignorance of spirit, then why people do what they do is easy to understand. I think you're right, Music.

[Sidney]

For those that can't drop hundreds of bucks on a spy cam, check out ebay. much cheaper. Yea they are probably made in china but so is most everything else.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR9.TRC1&_nkw=spy+camera&_sacat=0&_from=R40

[westhill]

So when do we stop filming/witnessing with our phones and step in to stop a man from getting beat to death right in front of us?
How many here could stand by and just let this happen and my god just film it! To hear the man plead for his life and still stand back at a safe distance.
...
Wow, we are a nation of sheep documenting our own slaughter.This is exactly correct.


The press in of a few bystanders and a couple to well placed words could have been all needed to disrupt the momentum (take the focus off the beaten man).

But, the person stepping forward will also be beaten, and arrested for "interfering with a police officer", or maybe killed. Will this action actually stop the cop(s), or simply be an excuse for the cop(s) to escalate their violence? The person stepping forward would hope that many others would also step forward and simply restrain the cops by sheer volume, which is the only possible way the violence would be stopped. More realistically, one brave soul would step forward - and receive massive punishment for their bravery.

The "home of the brave" line from the national anthem is a major irony - and the punchline of a joke. There is plenty of violence between individuals in the US, almost always where there is a major difference in power (gang against one, man against woman, adult against child, big physical guy against smaller gentle person, person with badge/taser/gun/backup against lone civilian), and the instigator of the violence is more powerful. Nothing brave about it. There are instances of people showing bravery to help out someone who is being attacked, but it is extremely rare for this to be when someone tries to step in when cops are committing crimes. It would almost HAVE to be instinctual bravery, because if the person stops and thinks about the ramifications of trying to stop a cop... well, it would freeze almost anyone.

The judicial system is utterly corrupt in the US. Anyone who does not know this is operating from theory, not experience. No matter what the cops do, they are given deference in court. Note I didn't say they are "believed" in court; the judge probably does not believe them, but will always defer to them. No matter what the cops do to a person who was trying to stop a cop from committing a crime, the person is instantly a criminal and subject to whatever sadism and rage is bottled-up in the cop (and his buddies with badges.) Then, if they live through the event, the full weight of the "justice" system will come down on them.

Land of the slaves. Home of the cowards (with exceedingly rare exceptions.) What would I do? People are tested by real situations, not by theoretical words. I hope I don't have to find out.

The OP is not about protest, but this does make me segue into the fact that I now strongly recommend against street protest. Street protest is 100% ineffective (no one in power is listening - no one in power cares.) By stepping into the street protest arena in a police state, a person immediately becomes vulnerable to anything any cop decides to do - it makes no difference if a protester was completely non-violent, holding up a sign and chanting. The protester WILL be found guilty of whatever that cop says happened. Agents provocateur are used if the cops want footage to convince the teevee watchers that the cops were justified in their actions.

Dennis

Are we to limit our choices to standing mute or walking away? Then we have already lost.
I learned early about bullies from my family so mine was not a theoretical post.
Let's not forget a real person died a horrible needless death. Nine people have to live with
killing him. Four kids have lost a father.

[sigma6]

Is this some kind of aftermath of Boston Bombings and its martial law?!Nothing to do with Boston. Police in the U.S. have always enjoyed beating the crap out of people. They like to kill people too. I can tell you from personal experience that cops escalate the tension rather than calm things down. And if a person does anything, and I mean anything, to resist, then out come the guns and the clubs. Even when the cops outnumber the so called bad guy by 5 or 6 or more, they still feel the need to beat the snot out of, or even shoot and kill the victim. Mark my word, you will hear exactly this as an excuse, ......... "I feared for my life", or "I feared for the pubic safety". Those are always standard excuses when they kill somebody.

But that can't be, they always show the police as the ones with the cool heads, moral strength and character, and they are usually Irish, (except on Hawaii 5-0, but I think that one guy is Irish) And if you cross reference with other police shows you will see this to be the case... I just don't understand...

[Dennis Leahy]

Hi westhill,

Did I leave the impression that there are just 2 choices? ("standing mute or walking away") If so, it is yet another poorly written post on my part.

I tried to describe what the consequences will be, once someone steps forward to stop a cop committing a crime. I suspect that the cops are counting on cowardice from bystanders - they have programmed society for it. I believe that if someone stops to think, they will stop - and cower. That is why I said that the response needs to be instinctual - (to overcome the programming, the "aversion therapy.")

When I said that "People are tested by real situations, not by theoretical words. I hope I don't have to find out." I was being introspective about myself, not you. I have stepped forward in the past, on several occasions - one involving a cop who grabbed a woman, then claimed she did something wrong, and arrested her. There were at least nine cops there. I was the guy who immediately went up to the chief of police (who saw the same thing I did) and I said "Take my statement. I'm a witness. I saw the officer instigate the event." Next, I was the one guy with the chief of police's hand on my chest, pushing me back. [The woman later refused to try to take the cop to court, where I would have testified. She was too intimidated, and they dropped the charge on her.]

I'm saying it might just be false bravado for me to declare that "If I had been there" (where the guy was beaten by the cops) " I would have [__________.]" I know what I think I would have done. I am positive I would neither have just stood there (watching or recording), nor walked away.





So when do we stop filming/witnessing with our phones and step in to stop a man from getting beat to death right in front of us?
How many here could stand by and just let this happen and my god just film it! To hear the man plead for his life and still stand back at a safe distance.
...
Wow, we are a nation of sheep documenting our own slaughter.This is exactly correct.


The press in of a few bystanders and a couple to well placed words could have been all needed to disrupt the momentum (take the focus off the beaten man).
It would almost HAVE to be instinctual bravery, because if the person stops and thinks about the ramifications of trying to stop a cop... well, it would freeze almost anyone.
...
No matter what the cops do to a person who was trying to stop a cop from committing a crime, the person is instantly a criminal and subject to whatever sadism and rage is bottled-up in the cop (and his buddies with badges.) Then, if they live through the event, the full weight of the "justice" system will come down on them.

Land of the slaves. Home of the cowards (with exceedingly rare exceptions.) What would I do? People are tested by real situations, not by theoretical words. I hope I don't have to find out.

Dennis

Are we to limit our choices to standing mute or walking away? Then we have already lost.
I learned early about bullies from my family so mine was not a theoretical post.
Let's not forget a real person died a horrible needless death. Nine people have to live with
killing him. Four kids have lost a father.

[bram]

I am so glad that most cops in the UK don't carry guns.
Bet it's only a matter of time though.

However, very large numbers of people die in police custody in the UK.

[TargeT]

thank you for saying that.....just what I was wondering .....it reminds me of a story I read today about a Stuart Wilde seminar in Copenhagen....he asked the people what had happened to the Vikings that these people all stood around at a stop light waiting to be told it was ok to cross the road when there wasn't a car in sight......we have slowly been trained to give up our own free will......we can't even cross the road without permission from a light! so can you wonder why so many people would stand there watching this happen and just FILM it.....it is really a pathetic statement of what we have let ourselves become


So when do we stop filming/witnessing with our phones and step in to stop a man from getting beat to death right in front of us?
How many here could stand by and just let this happen and my god just film it! To hear the man plead for his life and
still stand back at a safe distance. The press in of a few bystanders and a couple to well placed words could have been all needed to
disrupt the momentum (take the focus off the beaten man). Wow, we are a nation of sheep documenting our own slaughter.



I'm pretty sure I would get shot or tazed or beaten myself in that situation, no way could I stand there and watch a group of "adults" gang up and beat anyone with metal tubes, those batons do some serious damage.

I'd hand my phone off to one of the cattle standing around witnessing to film it, I'm sure they'd oblige.

I wonder what kind of charges would be brought against me (if I lived) probably interfering with a police officer at least... did you know it's illegal to stop a police officer if you think there is misconduct involved, you are just "allowed" to stand by and witness the event so you can testify in court later.

Remember this guy? :

xFOUqurUgFk



He created something called the "liberty bell" network.

Basically everyone involved in the liberty bell network pledges to come to each others aid should police arrive in a questionable situation; everyone has their cell phone numbers in a pool and when a call is made to the liberty bell network for possible rights violation (with a location etc given) all members respond and arrive at the scene to video tape the event (with phones usually).

It's all technically legal & puts a lot of the right "eyes" in needed situations.

of course Cox was entirely too dangerous & free thinking to be allowed to continue with his movement in Fairbanks Alaska, I believe some of the advanced electronic harassment & possibly other methods were used against him to put him "over the edge" which lead to his conviction and a 310 month federal sentence after some very high scale police action & (what I see as bribery based) testimony.


ANYWAY, I saw this as the most "action" oriented response to police violation & was very sad to see it dissolve due to Mr Cox's arrest; if you want a solution... well there's one right there ;)

[westhill]

Hi Dennis...
No worries. I think it's evident you're putting yourself in possible harm stepping in where cops are beating someone mercilessly.
In my case I didn't stop to think, I just did. So there wasn't any risk assessment. On a forum we have all the time to think,
look it over and see the danger.

http://brainconference.mum.edu/images/graphic_stress.gif