Caught in Our Own Feedback Loops

[enfoldedblue]

I had my initial awakening experience in 1996.When I first began to remember who I was beyond this body and human version of myself it was both exciting and frightening. I remembered myself as a god with my friends playing with the planet like children in a sandbox. We were enormous and could easily manipulate all the forces on the planet (in fact the forces were our will), including our little human figurines who lived there.


The more I remembered of this level of existence the more powerful and important I began to feel. In fact I began to see myself as a version of the Christ who was here to reveal to humanity the monumental reality behind the scenes of the mundane reality.
Luckily however, my guides decided to show me an even deeper level. When I reached this new level I cried and cried, the feeling, which I had never experienced before in my life was just the most amazing peaceful incredible, whole, humbling...right feeling which I can only explain as being ‘home’.


I initially cried, and then I laughed and laughed and laughed....at myself, at us, and how seriously we took ourselves and everything!


In this space I saw that it was all just us...a being that could be one or many that played with itself through eternity. In order to entertain ourselves we create stories and inject ourselves into them, and once immersed we often forget the deeper reality so that we can really lose ourself in our creations and have a more authentic experience. Being the incredibly complex being that we are our stories tend to have many many layers and dimensions to them. We like to make it sooo complex that the process of untangling ourself, once again, becomes a challenge.


As the process of awakening occurs, and we begin to remember who we really are, we can become aware of the extra layers of reality that seem more profound than the surface layer we have been existing in. The key to really waking up is not to get caught in these deeper layers and think they are ‘reality’ ...yes they are as real as the universe is real...but they are still just part of our ‘story’ that we inject ourself into..and not truth in the deepest sense of the meaning.


My understanding is that this time our experiment is to fully awaken to the deeper reality in this physical sphere. In order to do this we have to be very careful not to get caught in our own traps...in which there is... more important and less important, powerful beings...gods, hierarchies, good guys and bad guys etc (these are just layers of the story (our god-being feedback loop).


I believe the aim is to remember ourselves whole. One being...which includes everyone (not a percentage) and every thing...down to every blade of grass....alive and part of the majestic whole. Each aspect capable of being at once a unique individual and the ALL. Where everywhere we look we recognize ourselves shining in the eyes of others, in the flight of a bird, the surging of the ocean and the falling of a dead leaf.

[DeDukshyn]

The entire process of Creation is a constant feeback loop in its current form. The whole process is stuck in a chaotic feedback loop where the result feeds the Creation, in a sense, creating more of the same ad-infinitum. This is why humanity still has all the same source of problems as we do in all our "history".

The perception of things is the point where we can break this loop and get back on that wave of being a creator, instead of a "reactor".

"If I perceive X, I will react with Y" -- how many people have this mentality already programmed into their head? If I ask almost anyone, "What would you do if 'X' happened?", they would say "I would do / be 'Y'". Then if I asked "Why?", they would give me reasons based upon previous perceptual input - from the distant past, from a reality that exists only in the past. Humans have become programmed "reason making machines" - to justify our lack of personal greatness (that everyone has but hides).

When I am asked a similar question (Well, these days anyway; Almost drive my "other half" to insanity with this, lol), I only ever answer, "When I am in that situation, I will act with the results I deem best at that time." - I have stopped myself from dragging my actions / solutions / problems from out of the past only to be repeated. This helps break that loop, along with seeing each event / problem with no relationship to the past; new problem, even if it looks similar, always needs a fresh solution, because things never stop changing on many levels.

Some dude named "Jesus" said once - "Be in this world and not of it", in my full opinion is referring to the issues with this feedback loop and how to break out - to be in this world but not of it, means to exist in this world but to not base your thoughts or choices on it, thus breaking the "loop" between perception and reaction.

And this lends evidence to my humoured belief that we are indeed powerful creators, but since our "creations" (in the form of, thoughts, actions, reactions, choices, etc) are based on perceptions from the past, they are stuck and doomed to repeat forever. The loop must be broken, which means we need an entirely new way to PERCEIVE things. So what would be new? Perceptions and reactions not based in fear would be new. We have been in a fear based state of perception and reaction for all our history, as can be seen in all our history.

That change has to be a shift in this perception and action, to one that is not based in fear, else we get nothing but more of the same.

So we are in an environment that shifts as we do ... because we are creating it without realizing ;)

My 2 cents on the "feedback loop universe"

Excellent post Enfoldedblue!

Bottom line is this feedback loop is our tool of experience and learning about ourselves -- the gift is when humanity collectively realizes what is happening, and thus can direct it for greater Creation.



I added a couple updated sentences to help clarify my point.

[Camilo]

That's the beauty of the eternal paradox and the tricks we play on ourselves.

[lookbeyond]

Hi Enfoldedblue, i always enjoy your posts,thankyou.I have a question and this is something i am struggling with ATM.Being a mother of children, two of whom are teenagers, it is impossible for me to maintain my "god is me "outlook in the day to day grind.To put it another way,i dont feel it is possible to NOT be affected by the daily turmoil that involves interacting/disciplining/advising and loving these difficult creatures!

So i have reconciled to myself that i chose this most challenging time in my life to "wake up"and that there will only be moments in my day that i may feel a sense of profoundness/peace and other nice feelings but certainly not while i am talking yet again to myself because of cemented in earphones!

I often wonder if i will get to a point (before im an old lady and the children are grown and on their way)where i will be able to take the lovely moments of peace that i experience when i am home alone and integrate them into my mindset when i am refereeing a disagreement,insisting someone get off the computer NOW,iron that school uniform BEFORE the morning of school etc,
soooo, if you have any ideas on how to accelerate the process of the flowing on of remembering why im here to the difficult times during the day when my emotions seem to take control- i am all ears!

Love lookbeyond

[enfoldedblue]

Ha ha I hear you lookbeyond. I am a mother of a four year old...and to say the last few years have been a challenge to someone who has spent most of their life able to do what they want when they want would be an under statement. Please don't think I spend all my time in blissful, peaceful awareness! No like most of us here I am in a process of becoming, of learning to integrate what I know on the higher levels with the lower aspects of myself. In fact my child is fabulous for this :) . If he wasn't here I could easily think I was quite an enlightened being...lol. I call him my little zen master because he is good at showing me the parts of myself that still need work and integration.
When I do find myself reacting in an emotional state I am slowly getting better and remembering to reconnect with my heart and consciously try to raise the frequency of the experience. I am slowly getting better and better at this...key word slowly :).



Hi Enfoldedblue, i always enjoy your posts,thankyou.I have a question and this is something i am struggling with ATM.Being a mother of children, two of whom are teenagers, it is impossible for me to maintain my "god is me "outlook in the day to day grind.To put it another way,i dont feel it is possible to NOT be affected by the daily turmoil that involves interacting/disciplining/advising and loving these difficult creatures!

So i have reconciled to myself that i chose this most challenging time in my life to "wake up"and that there will only be moments in my day that i may feel a sense of profoundness/peace and other nice feelings but certainly not while i am talking yet again to myself because of cemented in earphones!

I often wonder if i will get to a point (before im an old lady and the children are grown and on their way)where i will be able to take the lovely moments of peace that i experience when i am home alone and integrate them into my mindset when i am refereeing a disagreement,insisting someone get off the computer NOW,iron that school uniform BEFORE the morning of school etc,
soooo, if you have any ideas on how to accelerate the process of the flowing on of remembering why im here to the difficult times during the day when my emotions seem to take control- i am all ears!

Love lookbeyond

[ghostrider]

until the gravity wave problem is solved , humans on earth will suffer a split consciousness ... a unified mind will lead the way to greater things for the human race ...

[enfoldedblue]

until the gravity wave problem is solved , humans on earth will suffer a split consciousness ... a unified mind will lead the way to greater things for the human race ...

Please explain further :)
Thanks

[music]

I remembered myself as a god with my friends playing with the planet like children in a sandbox. We were enormous and could easily manipulate all the forces on the planet (in fact the forces were our will), including our little human figurines who lived there.

Acts 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool

Bhagavad Gita 11:32 Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds

Mudaka Upanishad (on the nature of the divine) The earth is his footstool

My thoughts? Much organised religous thought centres around notions such as these, that the earth is a toy or tool or punishment of some all high entity. These all high entites are us, and it is our ego which puts the limit of our seeing here. The ego loves to be one of the powerful, one of the elite, one who has minions and power of life and death, one who can destroy the earth, or use it as a footstool, or even save it. The ego sees its rightful place as one of the exalted elite, as "the one", even as the most high.

Thankfully, we also have a heart. The heart is the great leveller, and with love we see there is something beyond the limit of ego-bound site. There is nothing above us, there is nothing below us, there is just us, and we are love.

[etheric underground]

Dear sister ( ENFOLDEDBLUE)...thank you for your post, its refreshing and uplifting to have family share the same resonance.
I was only thinking last night that project avalon can become quite dreary and cynical at times. Your understandings
have reinforced the reason I come to this site....AROHANUI ( with love)
kere

[etheric underground]

Is it ok if I share your post on Galactic Universal Embassy ( our little star seed group ) in Perth Australia??

[ulli]

People who have not yet recognized their own wholeness also cannot keep their promises. They often contradict themselves to the point of sabotaging their earlier goals and plans.
Because they are still fragmented they cannot see their inner divinity.
Having known both states, at least I can remember that it is all a process.
It also makes it easier to forgive someone who is not yet there.
Supportive group networks are doing wonders these days, and many are coming around and waking up.
I'm amazed at what Im discovering on Facebook these days, after having been absent there for several years.

[Fred Steeves]

I believe the aim is to remember ourselves whole. One being...which includes everyone (not a percentage) and every thing...down to every blade of grass....alive and part of the majestic whole. Each aspect capable of being at once a unique individual and the ALL. Where everywhere we look we recognize ourselves shining in the eyes of others, in the flight of a bird, the surging of the ocean and the falling of a dead leaf.

Christina, are you ever going to write something that doesn't ring absolutely true to me? (LOL)

I've been torn for some time between are we learning or remembering, but continue to lean more and more towards the remembering side. For one, I just don't see how learning can happen this rapidly. But recovering lost or obscured memories can occur in a virtual flash. When the "time" is right that is.

And yes, EVERYONE eventually returns safely "Home", not just some...

Thanks for another great thread!

[SlickWillie]

Fred....GREAT post....but in regards to remembering...do you mean we've already had this experience and are re-living it?

[Fred Steeves]

Fred....GREAT post....but in regards to remembering...do you mean we've already had this experience and are re-living it?

Not this particular one, but many (millions, billions, trillions?) very similar throughout the eons. Round and round we've gone. I found it particularly interesting enfoldedblue talking about the traps, and she's dead on IMO. One of the biggest traps I see now for Avalon type people, is the ever so enticing trap of "hero defeats villain".

She describes it perfectly me thinks in this "story" she told a ways back:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52450-The-Sacred-Garden-a-story

[enfoldedblue]

Is it ok if I share your post on Galactic Universal Embassy ( our little star seed group ) in Perth Australia??

Hi etheric underground, Glad you appreciate the post...it always makes me happy when others 'get' what I'm saying and don't just relegate me to the 'crazy' corner :P
I'd be pleased if you shared this writing.

Thank you

[enfoldedblue]

Hi Ulli, Thanks for posting. I agree there does indeed seem to be a real movement towards understanding our wholeness and this is very encouraging and refreshing.

Hi Fred, It's funny the remembering thing. When I had that awakening experience I was writing about, there was no doubt in my mind that I was remembering. The line "...and now you remember you forgot" echoed in my mind and it seemed so funny that I had completely forgotten who I was beyond "christy". However I do think that ultimately that the awkening process is a mix between the two. So each time we awaken we remember and learn more. This makes the process dynamic and alive.

Thanks for your thoughts and support :)

[SlickWillie]

Fred...thank you sooo much for sharing that story! INCREDIBLE illustration! Do you believe in reincarnation?

[enfoldedblue]

Hey really glad you like the story...I almost forgot about it.

[lakewatcher]

Thank you for starting this thread enfoldedblue. Your OP here, and the responses from the other members to it, especially Fred's, is what made me finally decide to quit lurking only, and to actually join Avalon as a member.

It seems to me that you have most wonderfully explained the meaning of the Sanskrit saying: neti neti.


Love to All,
lakewatcher

[enfoldedblue]

Hi Lakewatcher,

Welcome to the forum :-) . Thanks for commenting. I have not heard of neti neti before...only neti pot lol, but i find that so often that which we find on the inside can be validated on the outside. I look forward to looking into this.
Thank you

[music]

Thank you for starting this thread enfoldedblue. Your OP here, and the responses from the other members to it, especially Fred's, is what made me finally decide to quit lurking only, and to actually join Avalon as a member.

It seems to me that you have most wonderfully explained the meaning of the Sanskrit saying: neti neti.




Love to All,
lakewatcher

Hi Lakewatcher, I, and I'm guessing others would love to hear what you have to offer on neti neti.

Welcome to Avalon.

[Fred Steeves]

As the process of awakening occurs, and we begin to remember who we really are, we can become aware of the extra layers of reality that seem more profound than the surface layer we have been existing in. The key to really waking up is not to get caught in these deeper layers and think they are ‘reality’ ...yes they are as real as the universe is real...but they are still just part of our ‘story’ that we inject ourself into..and not truth in the deepest sense of the meaning.


This is why I now shy away from terms like: "When I woke up", or "waking people up". One has not woken up, one is waking up. Big big difference...Like enfoldedblue says there are layers upon layers of reality, and every time we break through into a new and deeper one it's ever so tempting to assume we are now "there". Well, none of us are "there", or we wouldn't be "here". (LOL)

Every new level, and it's inhabitants, will have convincing reasons and examples of why we are now "there". Personally I like the journey up a mountain scenario.

A bus load of people load up on a bus ride to the mountain top. Along the way there are scenic overlooks where they will want to get out, stretch their legs, breathe the clean air and take it all in.

Some decide to stay at the very first one. "This is nice, I'll stay here". They've become so entranced with this beautiful but relatively low level view, that they've totally forgotten the bus has a long way to go. The stop over views get more and more breathtaking the higher up they go, and some are even a bit frightening. (Best not get too close to the edge)

There's nothing wrong with these scenic overlooks, and it's o.k., even encouraged to stop for a while, but they are not the end of the journey. Still, the bus gets steadily emptier and emptier as it ascends, as people decide they are satisfied with this and that "view". Hell, maybe even the bus driver decides to quit their job and stay at one. (LOL)

I guess the question is this: What view will you be satisfied with? While enjoying one, are you keeping an eye above for what may come at the next stop? Are you looking to get all the way to the top, or are you looking for a nice little place along the way to rest your weary bones, settle in, and call your own?

Many along the way will tell you that you are there, and often it's because they think THEY are there. Well, it's up to YOU when you are there, not anyone else.

[enfoldedblue]

I love analogies! Thanks for this one Fred. Probably like mountain climbing it is necessary to pace ourselves on the ascent, if we just went straight up we could become very dizzy and confused and might even colapse! Probably is useful to stop and acclimatise to one level before moving on. And since there is no race, there is probably no problem with hanging out on one level for as long as it feels good and satisfying...though if one enjoying a particular level became convinced that that they had reached the pinacle..this would probably be described as delusional...and not really be so healthy.

[lakewatcher]

Hi Lakewatcher, I, and I'm guessing others would love to hear what you have to offer on neti neti.

As I understand it, it translates either as "not this, not this" or as "not this, not that," and signifies that one should not yield to the temptation to become attached to any of the successive levels of consciousness, nor their attendant phenomena, that one encounters on one's journey within back to the original source of their/our being.

Joseph Campbell said, in one of his lectures, that the Eastern masters would whisper this phrase in the ears of their meditating students to remind them that everything but our original source state of being is actually NOT our original source state, and only at source are we finally, really home.

I hope that helps.

Love to All,
lakewatcher

[lakewatcher]

Probably like mountain climbing it is necessary to pace ourselves on the ascent, if we just went straight up we could become very dizzy and confused and might even colapse! Probably is useful to stop and acclimatise to one level before moving on.

Once again you pleasantly surprise me. You have managed to state in the quote above, almost precisely, the theme of an allegorical story that has been knocking around in my head for about ten years. I call it, "The Mountain at the Center of the World." I haven't written it down because I wasn't sure it would be of any interest to anyone else. But it seems to apply to the points you made in your quote above, so I'll try to get the story written down this weekend and post it to this thread. Maybe it will be of interest to the discussion here.

Now, regarding the need to "pace ourselves," in his lecture "Get Off The Rollercoaster," Lester Levenson puts forth an opposite point of view. He said there, that from the physical plane (3D) we have the unique opportunity to "get off the roller coaster" of the cycle of creation and very quickly return home to source, which he calls the state of "beingness" or "the free state". And we can do this, he claimed, any time we make a soul choice to do it. I recommend this lecture. It's interesting. It's available in five parts on YouTube.

Love to All,
lakewatcher

[InCiDeR]

I believe the aim is to remember ourselves whole. One being...which includes everyone (not a percentage) and every thing...down to every blade of grass....alive and part of the majestic whole. Each aspect capable of being at once a unique individual and the ALL. Where everywhere we look we recognize ourselves shining in the eyes of others, in the flight of a bird, the surging of the ocean and the falling of a dead leaf.

Christina, are you ever going to write something that doesn't ring absolutely true to me? (LOL)

I've been torn for some time between are we learning or remembering, but continue to lean more and more towards the remembering side. For one, I just don't see how learning can happen this rapidly. But recovering lost or obscured memories can occur in a virtual flash. When the "time" is right that is.

And yes, EVERYONE eventually returns safely "Home", not just some...

Thanks for another great thread!

How about relearning? ;)

[enfoldedblue]

Once again you pleasantly surprise me. You have managed to state in the quote above, almost precisely, the theme of an allegorical story that has been knocking around in my head for about ten years. I call it, "The Mountain at the Center of the World." I haven't written it down because I wasn't sure it would be of any interest to anyone else. But it seems to apply to the points you made in your quote above, so I'll try to get the story written down this weekend and post it to this thread. Maybe it will be of interest to the discussion here.

Now, regarding the need to "pace ourselves," in his lecture "Get Off The Rollercoaster," Lester Levenson puts forth an opposite point of view. He said there, that from the physical plane (3D) we have the unique opportunity to "get off the roller coaster" of the cycle of creation and very quickly return home to source, which he calls the state of "beingness" or "the free state". And we can do this, he claimed, any time we make a soul choice to do it. I recommend this lecture. It's interesting. It's available in five parts on YouTube.

Love to All,
lakewatcher

I look forward to hearing your story. I hope the writing is going well.

[enfoldedblue]

There is a lot of controversy here on the site at the moment about people sharing their truth with the belief that it is “The” truth and is something everyone needs in order to advance spiritually. I just want to make it clear that what I have shared here is my own personal realizations, but that I also understand that my realizations are just my human brain’s attempt to understand something that I actually think is practically impossible to truly grasp with the human mind. I share my interpretation not to sway anyone towards my way thinking or viewing the universe, but rather just as one of many perspectives that may or may not be useful to another’s personal, unique journey.

[Nothingness]

I love this thread Enfoldedblue, and thank you for doing this. Smile. I really didn't have anything to add, but I wanted to express my appreciation. There are a lot people on this forum that bring a wonderful feeling/light with them when they post. You seem to be one of those.

I agree with Fred's post so much: 'This is why I now shy away from terms like: "When I woke up", or "waking people up". One has not woken up, one is waking up. Big big difference...Like enfoldedblue says there are layers upon layers of reality, and every time we break through into a new and deeper one it's ever so tempting to assume we are now "there". Well, none of us are "there", or we wouldn't be "here". (LOL)'

I hope you keep doing threads similar to this.

[lakewatcher]

I look forward to hearing your story. I hope the writing is going well.

Thank you for your kind consideration enfoldedblue. My sweetheart and partner in life is under the weather right now, and so I am a bit delayed in the writing; but, it is coming along -- how well, remains to be seen. :)

[lakewatcher]

I agree with Fred's post so much: 'This is why I now shy away from terms like: "When I woke up", or "waking people up". One has not woken up, one is waking up. Big big difference...Like enfoldedblue says there are layers upon layers of reality, and every time we break through into a new and deeper one it's ever so tempting to assume we are now "there". Well, none of us are "there", or we wouldn't be "here". (LOL)'

The I Ching makes the point that when one has managed to return "there" (or home) for a visit, one must be on guard "here" against the temptation to take the initiative to try to 'wake others up'. Others wake up on their own initiative, on their own terms and in their own time, and do not need us to prompt them any more than the rising sun needs the 'prompting' of a crowing cock to tell it to rise in the morning. (Hexagram 61, Line 6)

This does not mean that when another responsibly requests help from us, that we should not do all that we legitimately and realistically can to help them. I think that PA would not exist as it is now, if many of the 'helping souls' here were not motivated in this direction in their hearts.

Myth, scriptures of many traditions, and history tell us that at least a few souls did make it back "there" and volunteered to return "here" to help -- to help when requested to do so. What would such a soul be like? Well, this is just my personal opinion, but my guess is that they would be simple, humble, patient, compassionate and loving. I don't think that they would be peddling a dogmatic approach, IMHO.

It seems to me that the only one who has a true grasp of The Truth is The Supreme Being itself. If I were to claim that I had The Truth, then wouldn't I really be claiming that I am the equal of The Supreme Being? A risky thing, at best, for a fool like me to do. :)

Love to All,
lakewatcher

[enfoldedblue]

I agree with Fred's post so much: 'This is why I now shy away from terms like: "When I woke up", or "waking people up". One has not woken up, one is waking up. Big big difference...Like enfoldedblue says there are layers upon layers of reality, and every time we break through into a new and deeper one it's ever so tempting to assume we are now "there". Well, none of us are "there", or we wouldn't be "here". (LOL)'

The I Ching makes the point that when one has managed to return "there" (or home) for a visit, one must be on guard "here" against the temptation to take the initiative to try to 'wake others up'. Others wake up on their own initiative, on their own terms and in their own time, and do not need us to prompt them any more than the rising sun needs the 'prompting' of a crowing cock to tell it to rise in the morning. (Hexagram 61, Line 6)

This does not mean that when another responsibly requests help from us, that we should not do all that we legitimately and realistically can to help them. I think that PA would not exist as it is now, if many of the 'helping souls' here were not motivated in this direction in their hearts.

Myth, scriptures of many traditions, and history tell us that at least a few souls did make it back "there" and volunteered to return "here" to help -- to help when requested to do so. What would such a soul be like? Well, this is just my personal opinion, but my guess is that they would be simple, humble, patient, compassionate and loving. I don't think that they would be peddling a dogmatic approach, IMHO.

It seems to me that the only one who has a true grasp of The Truth is The Supreme Being itself. If I were to claim that I had The Truth, then wouldn't I really be claiming that I am the equal of The Supreme Being? A risky thing, at best, for a fool like me to do. :)

Love to All,
lakewatcher

Thanks Lakewatcher,

I agree. For me when I feel someone is trying to 'make' me understand something, my mind seems to shut down, and the information doesn't sink in a meaningful way.

However, I don't think we should be afraid to speak our truth... but it ultimately it shouldn't matter if anyone is listening, or 'getting' it, or not (though the ego will struggle with this :) ). I always believe we hear the right things at the right time. Most external information that I have found useful is information that is presented in way that it doesn't feel like the info is being 'sold' to me.

For me highest teaching is like someone dancing their own dance unselfconsciously, not caring if anyone is watching or not...this draws me in....rather than someone trying to get my attention with a song and dance.

[Fred Steeves]

The I Ching makes the point that when one has managed to return "there" (or home) for a visit, one must be on guard "here" against the temptation to take the initiative to try to 'wake others up'. Others wake up on their own initiative, on their own terms and in their own time, and do not need us to prompt them any more than the rising sun needs the 'prompting' of a crowing cock to tell it to rise in the morning. (Hexagram 61, Line 6)

This does not mean that when another responsibly requests help from us, that we should not do all that we legitimately and realistically can to help them. I think that PA would not exist as it is now, if many of the 'helping souls' here were not motivated in this direction in their hearts.

Myth, scriptures of many traditions, and history tell us that at least a few souls did make it back "there" and volunteered to return "here" to help -- to help when requested to do so. What would such a soul be like? Well, this is just my personal opinion, but my guess is that they would be simple, humble, patient, compassionate and loving. I don't think that they would be peddling a dogmatic approach, IMHO.


I don't quote from the Bible, or any other ancient texts very often, but when Jesus basically says in the New Testament: "Ask and you will receive, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened", I know from direct experience that it's true. If one is lost, is genuine in intent, and "puts out" the call for help, help WILL come. Likely not in any sort of way that might "reasonably" be expected, but come it will.

I get the image of a child who has found themselves lost in some deep woods. After exhausting every frenzied attempt at finding the trail home, and getting even more helplessly lost in the process, there's nothing left to do but put out the call for help. Except in this case the responding adult is not going to come and simply take them by the hand and lead them there, no no. The adult is going to help the child remember how they got themselves into this predicament in the first place.

"It's going to be o.k., just settle down, have a nice drink of water, and think for a little while.....The memory of every step you took to get yourself into this fix in the first place is right inside of you, and you can dig it out of there. I'm going to stay right here beside you the whole time, so don't worry, but you're going to find/remember your own way out of here, that way you'll never get lost again".

[lakewatcher]

I don't quote from the Bible, or any other ancient texts very often, but when Jesus basically says in the New Testament: "Ask and you will receive, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened", I know from direct experience that it's true. If one is lost, is genuine in intent, and "puts out" the call for help, help WILL come. Likely not in any sort of way that might "reasonably" be expected, but come it will.

That's my experience too. Very well put.


I get the image of a child who has found themselves lost in some deep woods. After exhausting every frenzied attempt at finding the trail home, and getting even more helplessly lost in the process, there's nothing left to do but put out the call for help. Except in this case the responding adult is not going to come and simply take them by the hand and lead them there, no no. The adult is going to help the child remember how they got themselves into this predicament in the first place.

"It's going to be o.k., just settle down, have a nice drink of water, and think for a little while.....The memory of every step you took to get yourself into this fix in the first place is right inside of you, and you can dig it out of there. I'm going to stay right here beside you the whole time, so don't worry, but you're going to find/remember your own way out of here, that way you'll never get lost again".

Really another wonderful analogy Fred! And I agree. May I share a fable that is parallel to your analogy, but which highlights a slightly different facet of the situation which you've described?

A young man decided to dig a well for water on a section of his father's property. His father had advised against digging there, but the young man proceeded on his own anyway. He did not find the water he was searching for, and he discovered in the process that he'd gotten himself stuck at the bottom of the hole he'd dug. Struggle as he might, he could only get himself a portion of the way out of his hole. Finally, in desperation, he cries out for his father's help. Soon the father comes to the scene, and in love he reaches down his hand to grasp that of his foolish son. But the father does not just pull his son out of the hole, rather he lends his hand as an anchor above, against which the son may now pull himself the rest of the way out of the hole.

Now the father had many children, and this situation occurred more than once. For the water the children sought was the water of eternal life, and was prized above all else. One son got himself so deeply dug down, in his misadventure, that he could not reach his father's hand when it was proffered. So, the father just went and got a rope that could reach down to the son and allow him to climb his way out of his hole.

The children each almost always insisted on going against the father's advise on this matter. I guess they had to learn for themselves that their father really did know best, and that he would not abandon them when they made their mistakes. Some of the children even got themselves injured in the holes they dug and could not even climb part of the way out. In these cases, when the broken children cried out for help, even if just in their hearts because they could no longer speak, the father sent rescuers (who were older brothers and sisters that had already learned this lesson) descending down the wells with ropes and other equipment to lift the injured child out the hole.

Always, when a disobedient child finally cried out sincerely for help, the father provided just the right help that was necessary in the situation.

***

I personally believe that we are required to do all that we can do to find our way home. But all that we can do, turns out to be never enough to make it all the way back. The difference between what we can do by ourselves and what is required for successful return is provided by what Jesus called the Father, which was, I suspect, his term for The Supreme Being. The provision of this help by the Father is what is referred to, I think, by the term 'divine grace'. That divine grace is provided through the medium of what is called the Christ Consciousness. I agree with enfoldedblue's spiritual experience, recounted in the original post, that indicates that We/All as The Supreme Being are a more fundamental level of being than even the Christ Consciousness, actually, even than the creation. But, I also believe that the Christ Consciousness is perhaps the most necessary aspect of the creation, second only to, if anything, or rather perhaps coeval/equal with free agency. Without free agency, our learning is greatly impeded or impossible. Without the Christ Consciousness, the creation, any creation as I presently understand it, will inevitably crash and fail.

For clarity's sake, let me state here that I am not a religionist. I see organized religion as a control mechanism. But, I do believe in the primacy of free agency and the necessity of the Christ Consciousness in order for the enterprise of at least this creation to be possible.

In your analogy Fred, I would say that the responding adult is the representative of the Christ Consciousness in the case you describe, and the patient, loving guidance that they provide is the manifestation of the divine grace in the situation. Of course, your responding adult provides just exactly what the child needs.

Love to All,
lakewatcher

[skippy]

Great post Lakewatcher. Thank you. Here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59270-A-Beautiful-Rescue)a beautiful rescue posted by Wantsthetruth74. Post the video here again, while it's beautiful.

nnYRhanK3XA

[enfoldedblue]

I don't quote from the Bible, or any other ancient texts very often, but when Jesus basically says in the New Testament: "Ask and you will receive, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened", I know from direct experience that it's true. If one is lost, is genuine in intent, and "puts out" the call for help, help WILL come. Likely not in any sort of way that might "reasonably" be expected, but come it will.

That's my experience too. Very well put.


I get the image of a child who has found themselves lost in some deep woods. After exhausting every frenzied attempt at finding the trail home, and getting even more helplessly lost in the process, there's nothing left to do but put out the call for help. Except in this case the responding adult is not going to come and simply take them by the hand and lead them there, no no. The adult is going to help the child remember how they got themselves into this predicament in the first place.

"It's going to be o.k., just settle down, have a nice drink of water, and think for a little while.....The memory of every step you took to get yourself into this fix in the first place is right inside of you, and you can dig it out of there. I'm going to stay right here beside you the whole time, so don't worry, but you're going to find/remember your own way out of here, that way you'll never get lost again".

Really another wonderful analogy Fred! And I agree. May I share a fable that is parallel to your analogy, but which highlights a slightly different facet of the situation which you've described?

A young man decided to dig a well for water on a section of his father's property. His father had advised against digging there, but the young man proceeded on his own anyway. He did not find the water he was searching for, and he discovered in the process that he'd gotten himself stuck at the bottom of the hole he'd dug. Struggle as he might, he could only get himself a portion of the way out of his hole. Finally, in desperation, he cries out for his father's help. Soon the father comes to the scene, and in love he reaches down his hand to grasp that of his foolish son. But the father does not just pull his son out of the hole, rather he lends his hand as an anchor above, against which the son may now pull himself the rest of the way out of the hole.

Now the father had many children, and this situation occurred more than once. For the water the children sought was the water of eternal life, and was prized above all else. One son got himself so deeply dug down, in his misadventure, that he could not reach his father's hand when it was proffered. So, the father just went and got a rope that could reach down to the son and allow him to climb his way out of his hole.

The children each almost always insisted on going against the father's advise on this matter. I guess they had to learn for themselves that their father really did know best, and that he would not abandon them when they made their mistakes. Some of the children even got themselves injured in the holes they dug and could not even climb part of the way out. In these cases, when the broken children cried out for help, even if just in their hearts because they could no longer speak, the father sent rescuers (who were older brothers and sisters that had already learned this lesson) descending down the wells with ropes and other equipment to lift the injured child out the hole.

Always, when a disobedient child finally cried out sincerely for help, the father provided just the right help that was necessary in the situation.

***

I personally believe that we are required to do all that we can do to find our way home. But all that we can do, turns out to be never enough to make it all the way back. The difference between what we can do by ourselves and what is required for successful return is provided by what Jesus called the Father, which was, I suspect, his term for The Supreme Being. The provision of this help by the Father is what is referred to, I think, by the term 'divine grace'. That divine grace is provided through the medium of what is called the Christ Consciousness. I agree with enfoldedblue's spiritual experience, recounted in the original post, that indicates that We/All as The Supreme Being are a more fundamental level of being than even the Christ Consciousness, actually, even than the creation. But, I also believe that the Christ Consciousness is perhaps the most necessary aspect of the creation, second only to, if anything, or rather perhaps coeval/equal with free agency. Without free agency, our learning is greatly impeded or impossible. Without the Christ Consciousness, the creation, any creation as I presently understand it, will inevitably crash and fail.

For clarity's sake, let me state here that I am not a religionist. I see organized religion as a control mechanism. But, I do believe in the primacy of free agency and the necessity of the Christ Consciousness in order for the enterprise of at least this creation to be possible.

In your analogy Fred, I would say that the responding adult is the representative of the Christ Consciousness in the case you describe, and the patient, loving guidance that they provide is the manifestation of the divine grace in the situation. Of course, your responding adult provides just exactly what the child needs.

Love to All,
lakewatcher

Thanks to Fred and Lakewatcher for these stories. It's funny because as I was reading them I felt myself go into reaction....'No I can do it all by myself!!...I don't NEED anyone to lift me up!!'...lol. ok ok settle down little ego...all is well...we know you are very capable :)

This is especially funny because not an hour before I was thinking about how gods were useful because until we have fully resolved our own ego, the act of stepping into our own godliness can result in arrogance and big falls. If I choose to...say allow for there to be a god/ess of love in my reality, this can become a vehicle which I can charge with my intent without ego attachment...trusting that the god/ess of love will work only to bring that which is in alignment with love and the highest good into my reality...and if it doesn't manifest then I trust it was not meant to (not that I failed somehow) and if it does then I feel gratitude and admiration for the awesome being that is the expression of the highest form of love (rather than ego success).

Also Skippy thanks for the video...though i can't watch it (because of slow internet connection)...i'm sure others will enjoy it.

[lakewatcher]

Thanks to Fred and Lakewatcher for these stories. It's funny because as I was reading them I felt myself go into reaction....'No I can do it all by myself!!...I don't NEED anyone to lift me up!!'...lol. ok ok settle down little ego...all is well...we know you are very capable :)

Here is how I presently understand the issue you pose above: In order for us to have the experience of separation there is a cost. That cost is an inevitable downward spiral into an inextricable situation. Your story "The Sacred Garden" illustrates this process wonderfully well. As long as we maintain the separation, we will get stuck. Contrary to the old saw, it is not possible for us to "pull ourselves up by our bootstraps." Don't believe me? Then try this: squat down, grab hold of your ankles and then try to pull yourself up off the ground. It obviously can't work! lol

The only way we can physically lift ourselves up, is to grab hold, in one way or another, of something higher than ourselves and then pull. In spiritual terms, the only way we can ultimately get out of the mess we inevitably get ourselves into, is to let go of the separation and grab hold of the spiritual support from the Source that is eternally there waiting for us all.

The biggest lesson, probably, of separation is that separation doesn't work. At the nadir of the/our creation cycle we finally realize this. When we finally let go and reconnect with our Source, then in cooperation with the Source, we can progress through the second half of the creation cycle and return home, by doing whatever that takes, with the Source's help.

IMO the Source does not just wait for us to realize the lesson, it proactively gives us clues along the way that we are going the wrong direction, that we need to let go and reconnect, and it also provides examples of the right way here and there. In your story, the people who finally began to wake up to love were responding to something that was reaching down and prompting them from above. I suspect that that was the ultimate nature of the "spark" within, which you spoke of in the story, IMHO.

Love to All,
lakewatcher

[lakewatcher]

Probably like mountain climbing it is necessary to pace ourselves on the ascent, if we just went straight up we could become very dizzy and confused and might even colapse! Probably is useful to stop and acclimatise to one level before moving on.

Once again you pleasantly surprise me. You have managed to state in the quote above, almost precisely, the theme of an allegorical story that has been knocking around in my head for about ten years. I call it, "The Mountain at the Center of the World." I haven't written it down because I wasn't sure it would be of any interest to anyone else. But it seems to apply to the points you made in your quote above, so I'll try to get the story written down this weekend and post it to this thread. Maybe it will be of interest to the discussion here.

Love to All,
lakewatcher

After some delay, the story is now ready. At Fred's suggestion I am moving it, with appropriate credits, to a new thread that will be entitled: The Mountain at the Center of the World. Hope to see you there ...

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59358-The-Mountain-at-the-Center-of-the-World

Love to All,
lakewatcher

[donk]

Thanks Lakewatcher,

I agree. For me when I feel someone is trying to 'make' me understand something, my mind seems to shut down, and the information doesn't sink in a meaningful way.

However, I don't think we should be afraid to speak our truth... but it ultimately it shouldn't matter if anyone is listening, or 'getting' it, or not (though the ego will struggle with this :) ). I always believe we hear the right things at the right time. Most external information that I have found useful is information that is presented in way that it doesn't feel like the info is being 'sold' to me.

For me highest teaching is like someone dancing their own dance unselfconsciously, not caring if anyone is watching or not...this draws me in....rather than someone trying to get my attention with a song and dance.

I struggle with what I bolded the most in this part of my journey, as it feels that those around me "not getting it" impedes my progress. This is a nicely worded reminder of the loop I am working hardest to get out of...as unconsciously I am always trying to blame external factors. Mother Culture (to borrow Daniel Quinn's term) seems to whisper to us all that it is important to be heard, understood--and get defensive or turn to fear when we are not.

It just feels like the victimhood is so deeply entrenched into the being of everyone around me. It is the only thing I am truly proud of, that I recognized my own victim mentality and consciously changed it...continue to change it every second of every day. It felt so much like "salvation" to me, that it is so hard to not try to get those around me to understand.

I do my best now to try to never push, never sell. It is hard, but I try by living as an example (to varying degrees of success :p). thanks everyone for your contributions, it is a lot to think about, good stuff...

[enfoldedblue]

Hi Donk,

Personally I think this is an important key to how we are controlled. Starting from early childhood we are taught that we are nothing without external validation. We learn to look at ourselves from the outside in. Instead of just being and acting from our centre in a natural spontaneous way, we learn to doubt ourselves if we don't have someone outside of us saying....yes you are right...you are good etc.

I think it is this process that creates the ego problem. 'Look at me...aren't I great...don't you love me." I think re-learning to operate from our own centre, regardless of external feedback is a key to reconnecting with our soul aspects and coming back to our true alignment in the universe.

[music]

Hi Lakewatcher, I, and I'm guessing others would love to hear what you have to offer on neti neti.

As I understand it, it translates either as "not this, not this" or as "not this, not that," and signifies that one should not yield to the temptation to become attached to any of the successive levels of consciousness, nor their attendant phenomena, that one encounters on one's journey within back to the original source of their/our being.

Joseph Campbell said, in one of his lectures, that the Eastern masters would whisper this phrase in the ears of their meditating students to remind them that everything but our original source state of being is actually NOT our original source state, and only at source are we finally, really home.

I hope that helps.

Love to All,
lakewatcher

Thanks, lakewatcher. I agree this is a vital concept for us. Inherent in this for me is the concept of knowing and being all, while simultaneously knowing and being nothing. We are nothing but all knowing, but ... we all know nothing.

And while the Zen master may praise the student who when asked "who are you" replies "I don't know", the master still walks on and leaves the student contemplating.

We only truly have knowledge when we are become our original source state, but at that precise instant we see what is beyond space and time, and so realise that knowledge is but a poor imitation of being. We also see that "being" is nothing but a way for the all (us) to express our love of love.

[DeDukshyn]

Likewise, "What am I?"; The original question that started the entire experience. Powerful enough was the asker to create the answer. We are still finding out.