Spirituality, need for fear.

[naste.de.lumina]

Hello friends.
This text has not the slightest pretension to impose anything, it's just a thought that took me way today afternoon.
So it's a personal perception that I would like to discuss because I think many of you more enlightened on this subject than I do.
I realize now that in many situations, for example, real communities, online communities, tv shows and media in general, that the matter in spirituality is taking much attention.
It appears to be intrinsic, the spiritual relationship with saving in most cases.
And the fear of not salvation, not part of the herd.
Regardless of religion or who believes individually, the fear of not being part of the class chosen seems to be most often present.
If this reasoning is valid, then we have to search for spirituality by fear in many people.
Then there is the fear, the opposite of love as fuel this engine running in search of spirituality.
I do not know if fear as starter, would be the one responsible for so many people realize fundamentalist, radical and uncompromising when it comes to faith in God.
But it seems to me plausible that it is an important ingredient in this universe, because intolerance, arrogance, selfishness, lack of empathy and other similar nouns are derived from the same negative force of fear.
Do not forget that fear is a fundamental tool, key Matrix control.
So far it is valid to search for spirituality by fear?
 
Love without fear for all.
Wander Brazilian.

[spiritguide]

What is the definition of spirituality? Once this is agreed to then we can discuss more fully it's dynamics.

[ulli]

My interpretation of spirituality

Since the visible part of us is continuously moving towards death and decomposition
we have no option but to experience the fear of non-existence.
After all, most healthy people have an instilled desire for life.

Spirituality is then the only alternative to that fear,
as it attempts to reassure us that existence continues after our physical death.

[Orph]

Since the visible part of us is continuously moving towards death and decomposition
we have no option but to experience the fear of non-existence.
After all, most healthy people have an instilled desire for life.

Spirituality is then the only alternative to that fear,
as it attempts to reassure us that existence continues after our physical death.This brings up an interesting discussion. It has been mentioned many times, in many threads, about the "fear of death". As one who has experienced deep deep depression for a significant portion of my life, I had no fear of death. I wanted it. I so much wanted to just blot out my existence as if I never was. And I'm not just talking about my physical existence. I mean everything. I did not want to exist at any level. So I've spent my life trying to figure out what "being here" is for. But I don't know. It's all a mystery to me. I guess you could say that is my spiritual quest.

[spiritguide]

Ulli, do we ever loose energy or just transform? Does energy diminish or just change form even into something not sentient to us? If this is so then fear of such is a hindrance to the quality of the energy we call ourselves. In my view we were spirit before we were material and this poses the dichotomy of what being human is about we are on two planes of existence simultaneously. IMHO

The universe is unfolding, fear not, for the ride is worth every sentient moment.

[Jayke]

I'd say fear helps people become rigid within certain belief systems but the main driving force behind spiritual awakenings is disillusionment. Once people stop being afraid, they gain clarity in their thinking and begin to question the beliefs imposed on them, they stop believing in the social narrative, question authority and start looking for better answers, that's when the door opens to a higher level of understanding.

Spirituality then would be anything that helps us transition away from the illusion of the 5 senses and helps us align with the more subtle energetic principles that give life to all of creation IMO.

[Lifebringer]

The truthful explanation and destination of humans on the planet and any or all of the Creator hosts existence of all? Our place in the Universe and purposeful fulfilling of peace and serenity in existence with the ability and freedom to LOVE all without judgement, just as Christ taught in the New testament or after the flood journey of Humankind/Earth beings. To graduate doing the best we can for each other and understand and respectfully tolerate others experience or expression of LOVE from the Creator?

Why wouldn't we want to know the truth? We can't keep living in fantasy, but fact.

[Lifebringer]

Well on that note, I've read a few years back while exploring the OBE and NDE testimony, as I also shared and "out of body experience" because of dying during birth/leaving from the trauma of a breech birth natural.(I was in the upper ceiling corner above the medical staff observing the complete birth of child) I was able to see into the pelvic region as if xray and see the child's shoulder get broken as they pulled her out. I told them after they revived me to check for the shoulder collar bone break, and they found it.

I also want to note expecially about the NOT wanting to be here at an early age. age 4, 5, 6 suicidal, Spirit told me I would be needed and it wasn't my time yet to leave, so I took up communicated with nature/animals showed love towards me/felt tree spirits from 7-9 trauma of sister running away, and assuming responsibility for 5 siblings until current, but at the age of 13, a minister sexually assaulted our 12yr old friend, and I turned from believing in the false leaders of churches, and went back to nature and within. I have just recently forgiven him, because he was married had two adopted children, and was unable to conceive with the now wife/friend who 30 yrs. older than her. Just saying that my dear mom once said to me when we were passing a cemetery. "Don't worry about the dead getting you, it's those life ones that'll hurt you." I've been keeping an eye on the live ones ever since.

Long story short, there were waves of volunteers that began to come here and incarnate to help us to get through this/watchers for the transition, sorta of higher self merging. The development of the 6th and seventh senses that are not used by some still not awake? Anyway they say these waves of old souls came at different times between the years of 1954 and the last one 1987. Some of the volunteer souls saw/felt so much pain being here, and wanted to go back on the mission and at early ages sought death as the only way out. "a knowing" they would have to be restarted somewhere else. This was not allowed, and so the struggle to love the whole human race, planet, life on the planet, to the satisfaction enough to want to complete the mission. Some of us used to be pretty strong in wisdom or love, in order for them to offer us the chance to remove some of our own short comings from other lifetimes, some feel the spirit and speak from within, and are the words often needed by souls who tire of their mission, or forgot their purpose by falling/acting in the same lower vibratory3D being/body/emotional/reactionary and often violent ways we see today. They have forgotten why they were blessed with money and power to improve the lives of all who live in it, and gain satisfaction for a job well done in life and love of all.

I believe I was in one of those waves, because I just LOVE nature, storms and all. I don't break a sweat until it's 90 degrees or better.
I've done a few things in this life/made wrong choices or choices to be around certain destructive people/crowd because we shared that "not loved" feeling and sought the escape of loneliness, unacceptance, and most important, the selection to be in a poverty stricken and dysfunctional family, that really did actually need me to be there for them, because of the weaknesses in the family love chain that "was not shown" during childhood to parents. Just being tough. That's never the answer all the time, only in the protecting of the vehicle we live in as we experience this planet and life form.
But every being must surely evolve, and grow, just as plants and universe expand and grow. We are due some major changes, because the pennicle of our exisitance to move beyond murder and war, requires that we do, or die continuing the destructive path planned by others. They've been openly planning this for thousands of years, knowing this time would come, and deceiving the whole world.

Surely every lie will be found, every stone turned, every tongue and hand will tell of all the soul in the body did. Surely they cannot rule forever and the faith of knowing what goes around comes around, murphy's law, ying and yang, Universal seeds sown ye reap, I know it in my bones, it's comes. My heart and and soul rejoices at the graduation of us, when it does, and the resetting and moving forward, won't be obstructed again.

I'm down for that.

[naste.de.lumina]

I'd say fear helps people become rigid within certain belief systems but the main driving force behind spiritual awakenings is disillusionment. Once people stop being afraid, they gain clarity in their thinking and begin to question the beliefs imposed on them, they stop believing in the social narrative, question authority and start looking for better answers, that's when the door opens to a higher level of understanding.

Spirituality then would be anything that helps us transition away from the illusion of the 5 senses and helps us align with the more subtle energetic principles that give life to all of creation IMO.

Jayke.
So, in your understanding, spirituality would be a higher level of consciousness?

[deridan]

any fear in this category:
"n.d.l: Regardless of religion or who believes individually, the fear of not being part of the class chosen seems to be most often present.
If this reasoning is valid, then we have to search for spirituality by fear in many people. "
is not to be tolerated.
becoming part of such a group, would indicate a weak link (or many) in the group.

(these fears are of external factors, here-under i refer to one more internal)
the only fear which i call tolerable, is that taught initially in western tradition religions in relation to the One.
..it causes the person to evaluate there relation to the One (& bring in right alignment). Those who promote fearless traditions within religion [in initial mode], are of another breed, inevitably those will find something else to fear (& really too, they have not spent enough time in internal alignment, ..so without prep, what follows.).

that fear within religions lead to fundamentalism, i don't know of this,
but its obviously idiots trying to structure the external world in relation to misplaced convictions,
what can i say of all ofthem though, I'm dominant in my 12th astrological house, where its said "You likely identify yourself with formlessness, being more attracted to awareness itself than to any particular concrete"

[Jayke]

Jayke.
So, in your understanding, spirituality would be a higher level of consciousness?

Higher as in higher level of coherence perhaps. A spiritual person to me is someone who can maintain a personal coherence with the creative life principles even while the world around them is crumbling to s**t.

I'll use the story of Jack Schwarz as an example:


During the Holocaust, Nazi soldiers grilled Schwarz, a seventeen-year-old Dutchman, about his activities in the Resistance. He refused to tell any secrets, so the soldiers whipped him with cat 'o nine tails tipped with steel hooks. Covered with blood, Schwarz looked the soldiers in the eye and said, "Ich liebe dich," I love you.

The surprised Germans covered Schwarz with his shirt, but the bleeding had already stopped and the wounds were healing right before their eyes. In the United States, Jack was the subject of many studies. A yoga practitioner who had read Eastern scriptures extensively, he convinced the Greens and many others that, "All of your body is in your mind, but not all of your mind is in your body."

I'd recommend a book by Maxwell Cade called 'The Awakened Mind'.


Cade used the Mind Mirror (EEG neurofeedback device) to watch people's brainwaves, the ESR to gauge relaxation levels, and the Lesh scale to landmark and cross-correlate the depths of relaxation attained. Over the next few years, he guided hundreds of Hindu yogis, spiritual healers, psychics, energy healers, and seasoned meditators into deep, profound meditation to study a variety of altered states of consciousness.

In his book, he wrote that meditation puts people "on a magic journey to the storehouse of visions and ideals." Once the mind awakens and becomes more lucid and self-aware, anyone can enjoy a creative flow of imagery, inspiration and insights that well up on their own to guide us through everyday life.

[ghostrider]

What is the definition of spirituality? Once this is agreed to then we can discuss more fully it's dynamics.

we need everyone to chime in on this ... we won't nail it down , until we have all the insights from everyone... their are some really great minds here, we need them ... this is the building block for everything we know, think , and experience ... spritiuality = the energy of life you can feel = in everything that lives no matter what form it takes ...thats my take on it ...

[spiritguide]

The subtitle of Avalon is "where science and spirituality meet", science of the soul is psychology, has this science brought us closer to understanding spirituality or has it been used to label and divide us? Neurology comes closer to explain the dynamics of our energetic bodies and that we interrelate with universal forces/energies. The synapse sparks, does it not?

[ulli]

Since the visible part of us is continuously moving towards death and decomposition
we have no option but to experience the fear of non-existence.
After all, most healthy people have an instilled desire for life.

Spirituality is then the only alternative to that fear,
as it attempts to reassure us that existence continues after our physical death.This brings up an interesting discussion. It has been mentioned many times, in many threads, about the "fear of death". As one who has experienced deep deep depression for a significant portion of my life, I had no fear of death. I wanted it. I so much wanted to just blot out my existence as if I never was. And I'm not just talking about my physical existence. I mean everything. I did not want to exist at any level. So I've spent my life trying to figure out what "being here" is for. But I don't know. It's all a mystery to me. I guess you could say that is my spiritual quest.

I believe that we have a dual nature. One part wants to survive at all cost, and the other part has a death wish.
Plus there is a spectrum of levels in between.

Bipolar people know all about these different states and how extreme they can be...
to the point that it is hard to think of oneself as an I-dentity.

But once in a blue moon all these states are balanced, and at such a moment one gets a glimpse of the world
through the eyes of one's eternal self.
Such a moment makes living worthwhile. It can trigger a real search...like, who am I really?
and "what am I here for?"

Nothing else matters. The answers will come if the question as well as the quest is genuine.

[naste.de.lumina]

I heard one day, and did not know who the author of the phrase:
The most important two days of our life are:
1 the day you were born.
2 the day you could find out why you were born.

[konocti7]

I believe this was by Mark Twain.

[ghostrider]

concerning NDE's, I noticed no one ever went to the other side and came back and said, it was on fire , hurds of people in pain and on fire... quite the contrary, it was all light and calm and peacefull ... one everyone wanted to stay... our world fears death, but I do not, it sounds like true freedom ... no more body just energy and a golden light that loves you unconditional... I've heard we stay in spirit form for 152 years going around the sun, then when a new host body is born, on 21st day we are reborn in the matrix and do it all over again ...it is said we live in the EMV's as pure energy protecting planets ...I've noticed a theme today, it keeps coming up, spiritual energy and rebirth... could this week hold some answers ???

[Youniverse]

Hello friends.
This text has not the slightest pretension to impose anything, it's just a thought that took me way today afternoon.
So it's a personal perception that I would like to discuss because I think many of you more enlightened on this subject than I do.
I realize now that in many situations, for example, real communities, online communities, tv shows and media in general, that the matter in spirituality is taking much attention.
It appears to be intrinsic, the spiritual relationship with saving in most cases.
And the fear of not salvation, not part of the herd.
Regardless of religion or who believes individually, the fear of not being part of the class chosen seems to be most often present.
If this reasoning is valid, then we have to search for spirituality by fear in many people.
Then there is the fear, the opposite of love as fuel this engine running in search of spirituality.
I do not know if fear as starter, would be the one responsible for so many people realize fundamentalist, radical and uncompromising when it comes to faith in God.
But it seems to me plausible that it is an important ingredient in this universe, because intolerance, arrogance, selfishness, lack of empathy and other similar nouns are derived from the same negative force of fear.
Do not forget that fear is a fundamental tool, key Matrix control.
So far it is valid to search for spirituality by fear?
 
Love without fear for all.
Wander Brazilian.

Marianne Williamson said that "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us." And from Conversations With God it was said that we cannot accept the greater glory of God, which is that we are in fact the God we seek.

[Youniverse]

Many of us have handed over our power for the reason I just mentioned. It is 'safer' and 'easier' to become automotons that allow someone else to do the creating and controlling for us so we don't have to be responsible for ourselves. We can sit back and let the system do all the work for us. This doesn't cut it in my world anymore.

[Youniverse]

concerning NDE's, I noticed no one ever went to the other side and came back and said, it was on fire , hurds of people in pain and on fire... quite the contrary, it was all light and calm and peacefull ... one everyone wanted to stay... our world fears death, but I do not, it sounds like true freedom ... no more body just energy and a golden light that loves you unconditional... I've heard we stay in spirit form for 152 years going around the sun, then when a new host body is born, on 21st day we are reborn in the matrix and do it all over again ...it is said we live in the EMV's as pure energy protecting planets ...I've noticed a theme today, it keeps coming up, spiritual energy and rebirth... could this week hold some answers ???

Yes but interestingly enough there are those that have used entheogens or psychedelics(I have noticed many similarities between NDEs and DMT 'trips') that have had 'hell-like' experiences, if only briefly. At any rate, I believe that after death we only experience what we expect to experience(just as in life) and if that experience is 'undesirable' we soon find out that we can quickly shift to a completely different kind of experience. So we're never condemned to hell for all eternity unless we hold on to the belief that that must be so.

[kreagle]

Hello friends.
This text has not the slightest pretension to impose anything, it's just a thought that took me way today afternoon.
So it's a personal perception that I would like to discuss because I think many of you more enlightened on this subject than I do.
I realize now that in many situations, for example, real communities, online communities, tv shows and media in general, that the matter in spirituality is taking much attention.
It appears to be intrinsic, the spiritual relationship with saving in most cases.
And the fear of not salvation, not part of the herd.
Regardless of religion or who believes individually, the fear of not being part of the class chosen seems to be most often present.
If this reasoning is valid, then we have to search for spirituality by fear in many people.
Then there is the fear, the opposite of love as fuel this engine running in search of spirituality.
I do not know if fear as starter, would be the one responsible for so many people realize fundamentalist, radical and uncompromising when it comes to faith in God.
But it seems to me plausible that it is an important ingredient in this universe, because intolerance, arrogance, selfishness, lack of empathy and other similar nouns are derived from the same negative force of fear.
Do not forget that fear is a fundamental tool, key Matrix control.
So far it is valid to search for spirituality by fear?
 
Love without fear for all.
Wander Brazilian.


naste.de.lumina,


I have always been convinced that mainstream Christianity's perception of the 'fear of the Lord' has been grossly skewed by a combination of 'ignorance,....and, of course, satanic design, also!' While 'fear', ( ie. to be 'afraid of'), certainly has it's merits, and is to be considered and administered,....when applicable,....the 'proper application' of this religious 'catch phrase' should be as to 'fear', ( ie. have revered 'respect' for), the Lord!


I do NOT serve the Lord because I 'fear', ( am 'afraid' of), Him,......but rather, I serve the Lord because I 'fear', ( have Divine 'respect'), for Him! There is a 'massive' difference between these 'two' definitions, in correlation to our outlook on how we actually view God,....and exactly 'how' He wants us to view, ( and serve), Him!


If one 'attempts' to serve the Lord because of 'fear', ( afraid, or scared to death of the consequences), they are going to be continually bombarded with undue condemnations,...live a 'defeated spiritual existence',....and ultimately loose out on their quest for Truth. Pure love,.....God's love,....has 'no room' for this type of 'fear' and those who endeavor to 'scare individuals into serving God' are either being motivated 'satanically,...or....simply ignorant' of what they are doing.



1 John 4:18 (KJV)

18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.




The 'fear of the Lord' mantra should 'always' be associated with our Divine respect for Him and His Word. A 'follower of Christ' should adopt the view that,....."I divinely respect You Lord,...so much,... that I fully believe in You,...and Your Word,... to the point that I unconditionally accept Your directives for my life!"


Once we attain this proper view of this Christian 'catch phrase',...FEAR,....we are then well on our way to a victorious Christian experience, my friends!


Your brother, friend, and servant,.......kreagle

[naste.de.lumina]

naste.de.lumina,


I have always been convinced that mainstream Christianity's perception of the 'fear of the Lord' has been grossly skewed by a combination of 'ignorance,....and, of course, satanic design, also!' While 'fear', ( ie. to be 'afraid of'), certainly has it's merits, and is to be considered and administered,....when applicable,....the 'proper application' of this religious 'catch phrase' should be as to 'fear', ( ie. have revered 'respect' for), the Lord!


I do NOT serve the Lord because I 'fear', ( am 'afraid' of), Him,......but rather, I serve the Lord because I 'fear', ( have Divine 'respect'), for Him! There is a 'massive' difference between these 'two' definitions, in correlation to our outlook on how we actually view God,....and exactly 'how' He wants us to view, ( and serve), Him!


If one 'attempts' to serve the Lord because of 'fear', ( afraid, or scared to death of the consequences), they are going to be continually bombarded with undue condemnations,...live a 'defeated spiritual existence',....and ultimately loose out on their quest for Truth. Pure love,.....God's love,....has 'no room' for this type of 'fear' and those who endeavor to 'scare individuals into serving God' are either being motivated 'satanically,...or....simply ignorant' of what they are doing.



1 John 4:18 (KJV)

18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.




The 'fear of the Lord' mantra should 'always' be associated with our Divine respect for Him and His Word. A 'follower of Christ' should adopt the view that,....."I divinely respect You Lord,...so much,... that I fully believe in You,...and Your Word,... to the point that I unconditionally accept Your directives for my life!"


Once we attain this proper view of this Christian 'catch phrase',...FEAR,....we are then well on our way to a victorious Christian experience, my friends!


Your brother, friend, and servant,.......kreagle

ohhh very good.
We have similar perceptions, dear brother travel kreagle .
Thanks for sharing.

[Energy Alchemist]

My guidance says, “Spiritual knowledge brings the Joy of understanding, this Joy counteracts the Fear of uncertainty.” Or my reaction to that was “The human mind builds mountains out of molehills of fear.”

Being unsure of spiritual conviction about a God/Creator/I AM/Spirit is a common point to pass on this path of life/lives. Many organized religions would have us believe theirs is the only way to find God while most are more interested in our membership. If Mastery is the spiritual goal then this search is an individual one since we are all different and needing our own unique lesson plan. Our journey can and often will be aided by others along the way to reflect back to us what we are looking for next. The common aspect of the journey of Mastery is that we will all learn the same lessons by the time we’re complete but having found them in different places.

Fear is not knowing the truth. As St. Germain puts it FEAR is False Evidence Appearing Real. The freedom from fear comes in knowledge, although this knowledge is not seen until it's time to understand for each on our journey. That said, Truth is subjective, one persons truth can and may well be rejected by others not having had the same experiences.

We live in Duality, we have the Light balanced by the Dark in this three dimensional world. They appear as equal forces to us from our limited perspective. Fear is used by those in places of power to motivate others into taking the actions they want them to. Drama is a close second as a tool for control of others. Knowledge is truth, in whatever form that manifest itself in for each individual. Knowledge of the real reality is freedom from the illusion of duality.

[greybeard]

I always took "Fear of the Lord" to be a miss translation.
Respect for the Lord seemed to me, even as a young child the way to go.
I never got that a loving God could be fearsome and yet there was no way I could prove my thoughts right, so from time to time I fell into the fear of hell and damnation through conditioning.
Thankfully common sense, rationality and at least a sense of being loved--
and looked after kept breaking through.
There is nothing to fear but the fearful thought.
Chris

[chocolate]

The current state of existence is a material one, and if we assume for a moment, that we have been hardwired to survive as long as possible, than fearing death or not existing becomes easier to understand. Fear, as I see it, is a prerequisite for this life, and only those who know fear well, who know where it springs from and how deep it can go, could overcome it. Only when you feel physical life so painful both physically and mentally (I, for some reason do not like much the word spirituality) to choose to end it, in whatever form comes to your mind, only then you can realize there are more painful things than death, and than you are free from that fear of death.

Once I read that the greatest angels (meaning Archangels and the like around God(s) ) are the ones who had fallen at first, because they know both and they have chosen (have made a conscious choice!) to be in the light...

It is understandable that sometimes fear can lead to a search for some answers, called sometimes spirituality. Before that I remember it being called religion? I get confused with all those colorful words constantly having a mind that operates with visuals...

Today everything is used to get closer to you, to control you or to benefit from you in a material way. But that, I think, is also part of the game. What is important ,I think, is to know that not everything is what it seems, and to constantly move one step further, being able to discard what has proven invalid, and embrace what has proven, in your own life, as true and valid.

"the truth will set you free" and "by their fruits you will know them"

"Fear not" as Yoda would say...

[Energy Alchemist]

Chris, I agree with fear being out of place for a loving God, it’s also out of place in a spiritual life. I see the concept of fearing God having come as a result of humans not being able to rationalize the concept of a loving God. Our misunderstanding of the term, as it is above so it is below also added to the misconception of God. Man would read this then look around seeing the fighting and killing going on reversing this to read, as below so it is above. We fight and kill, we have vengeful rulers waging wars therefore God does too. So God has mighty wars in Heaven and he’ll get you if you displease him. These are not the actions of the God I’ve come to know as a channeler.

How would mankind be able to understand a loving God knowing only unconditional love for us. For humans to see this it would require them to have had the experience to rationalize it from. Metaphors were used to relate concepts to those without the direct experience although these are many times taken too literally missing the point of the lesson completely.

All of the myths repeated for hundreds of years became accepted as truth without questioning the spiritual logic.