Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

[Billy]

-------

Hi, All:

Sitting with an exterior viewpoint is an interesting novelty, but after a while it gets boring as unlimited powers lose their appeal. If all the mountains to climb were reduced to a flat, level plain -- then all the fun of mountaineering would be lost.

We need those unknowns in order to have fun. It's only when things get out of balance that it doesn't feel like so much fun any more.

:)

With very best wishes, Bill[/INDENT][/INDENT][/INDENT][/INDENT]


I agree wholeheartedly.

Bill do you mind expanding a little more, can i ask how you personally perceive balance. What would a balanced individual or a balanced humanity be in your eyes.

Wishes and peace to you.

[Bill Ryan]

[..cut..]
Now, if we accept that we have engrams from past lives, this leads to a further two possibilities: either:

(a) that we have a ‘soul’ which continues in this body from life to life, taking with it the results of actions performed in previous lives which may be called karma, including engrams, further adding to this karma by our actions in our current life, or
(b) that our engrams are passed to us genetically by our parents in cellular form in the zygote. [..cut..] Therefore either (i) our engram load is increasing continuously and has done so for thousands (millions?) of years, placing us in possession of millions of unresolved engrams, or (ii) engrams have a finite life, and tend to fade with the passage of time.
[..cut..]


Hi Bram,

I don't know about Scientology, but your question reminded me of Holographic Kinetics by Steve Richards (discussed elsewhere on the forum), so here's his answer in case your interested in correlating different practices:

If they are talking about the same thing - in HK you among other things also look at issues that caused pain in this/past lives and blow that of your timeline - the engrams would come BOTH:
- from your own soul/spirit timeline indefinitley, and
- from your ancestors down to the seventh generation. (At least when I did a session only issues up to 7 generations down the timeline were considered, so I think that's it). No idea where that cut-off time comes from though :)

Thanks for your thought-provoking questions, I never considered how these things might multiply if there was no cut-off date... I hope HK is right and there IS a cut-off date, otherwise the accummulation would be astronomical.


From what I understand, the part of Holographic Kinetics that works is all based on Dianetics, repackaged in a slightly different format.


Hi Bill,

First of all I want to say that I appreciate very much the information and knowledge about the R. Hubbard tech that you and other members of the forum (jim, amzer zo etc.) are providing here.

On the other hand I find it intriguing that you would state the following:

"From what I understand, the part of Holographic Kinetics that works is all based on Dianetics, repackaged in a slightly different format."

... since I've read your reply to Music on her thread "Bill, Why Dianetics is Not For Me" (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59506-Bill-Why-Dianetics-is-Not-For-Me&p=680533&viewfull=1#post680533), and if I understand correctly your above statement, you are saying that there is a part of HK that works and there is a part that doesn't work, and the part that does work is all based on Dianetics.

I would like to ask you the following questions:

On what do you base your understanding about the HK technology?
Is it that you've had a HK session or maybe you have even made a HK course?
According to your understanding, which part of HK works and which part it doesn't work?

Thank you.

My information about Holographic Kinetics is largely based on Amzer Zo's reports in various forum threads of some sessions (one or two of which have been pretty spectacular) -- complemented by videos I have watched. I have no direct personal experience.

The sessions that Amzer Zo described look very similar indeed to me to Dianetics sessions. (Maybe AZ can confirm.) And the sessions do seem to have had real, solid and beneficial results. I can understand why, and this is all good.

In other areas, Steve Richards attempts to handle entities, and as best I can see these techniques are more shamanic and are not based on Hubbard's work. While he's evidently had some success in those areas (as have many others practicing a wide variety of techniques), he is entering into dangerous areas here if there are aspects to this very large and potent realm which he may not have all the available information about.

Entity handling is (or can be) a real Pandora's Box, and when that box lid is opened the practitioner had better be very able and knowledgable indeed, or there's a certain risk that matters can be made worse. That's the essence of why I summarized as I did.

[AwakeInADream]

Hi Bill!:) I think you might have missed my question here:http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-Ron-s-Org-Planet-Earth.-Jim-and-the-Future&p=678555&viewfull=1#post678555

I could still do with some tips on how to do 'reverie' correctly as described by Hubbard in the Dianetics book.
(Although I have just started working through The Pilot's Self Clearing book, so maybe if I'm patient my memory will just improve naturally with this:))

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Hi, All:

Sitting with an exterior viewpoint is an interesting novelty, but after a while it gets boring as unlimited powers lose their appeal. If all the mountains to climb were reduced to a flat, level plain -- then all the fun of mountaineering would be lost.

We need those unknowns in order to have fun. It's only when things get out of balance that it doesn't feel like so much fun any more.

:)

With very best wishes, Bill


I agree wholeheartedly.

Bill do you mind expanding a little more, can i ask how you personally perceive balance. What would a balanced individual or a balanced humanity be in your eyes.

Wishes and peace to you.


I wasn't referring here to a balanced individual -- but to a balanced game.

Games contain:

Assets and resources you have on your side (like favorable circumstances, knowledge, ability, skill, equipment or money, people working with you and supporting you)
Barriers (such as unfavorable circumstances) or opponents (especially opponents who have knowledge, ability, skill, equipment or money, people working with them and supporting them)
Goals and purposes (something that you want to accomplish or achieve).


If you're playing football, a good game is when it's in balance -- like this:

You have skill and ability
Your opponents have matching skill and ability
There's something significant at stake (like winning a trophy, or getting promotion to a more senior league).


The game stops being so much fun when it's OUT of balance -- like this:

You're far, far better than your opponent, and it's all a simple walkover
Your opponent is far better than you, and they crush you into the ground
There's nothing at stake and the game does not really matter at all.


A world-class mountaineer walking up a little hill won't be very challenged. For him, that's not a good game. It's way too easy.

To someone who has little mountaineering experience and who's out of shape, finding themselves on a Himalayan peak is not a good game either. It's way too hard.

But for the world-class mountaineer, climbing Everest is a good game. (He may or may not make it. But he's in balance, he's learning, and he's glad he's there.)

For someone who's been bedridden and is recovering from a serious illness, walking up a little hill is a challenge, and is a good game. (He may or may not make it. But he's in balance, he's learning, and he's glad he's there.)

Does this help explain what I meant a little better?

[Hervé]

[...]

The sessions that Amzer Zo described look very similar indeed to me to Dianetics sessions. (Maybe AZ can confirm.)...

[...]

Definitely. That's what it sounded to me as well; a Dianetics session with all its communications components (especially the acknowledgement of whatever answer comes up) down to the "re-living" of incidents as if happening in present time, by-passing the soul's/mind's "I remember," by directly addressing "spirit" (i.e. "File Clerk" in Dianetics, which LRH later realized to be the thetan/being itself).

[Hervé]

[...]

The game stops being so much fun when it's OUT of balance -- like this:


You're far, far better than your opponent, and it's all a simple walkover
Your opponent is far better than you, and they crush you into the ground
There's nothing at stake and the game does not really matter at all.

[...]

... or it's all rigged for the greedy benefit of some betters... like in wrestling with all sorts of entertainment theatrics...

It seems that in the case of planet Earth, the spectators are the various ET factions cheering up their favorite team and putting them on steroids.

[Billy]

-------

Hi, All:

Sitting with an exterior viewpoint is an interesting novelty, but after a while it gets boring as unlimited powers lose their appeal. If all the mountains to climb were reduced to a flat, level plain -- then all the fun of mountaineering would be lost.

We need those unknowns in order to have fun. It's only when things get out of balance that it doesn't feel like so much fun any more.

:)

With very best wishes, Bill


I agree wholeheartedly.

Bill do you mind expanding a little more, can i ask how you personally perceive balance. What would a balanced individual or a balanced humanity be in your eyes.

Wishes and peace to you.


I wasn't referring here to a balanced individual -- but to a balanced game.

Games contain:
[LIST]

But for the world-class mountaineer, climbing Everest is a good game. (He may or may not make it. But he's in balance, he's learning, and he's glad he's there.)

For someone who's been bedridden and is recovering from a serious illness, walking up a little hill is a challenge, and is a good game. (He may or may not make it. But he's in balance, he's learning, and he's glad he's there.)

Does this help explain what I meant a little better?

Yes thank you.

So the player of the game, whether an individual or a collective will be in balance as long as the game they are playing is in balance.

A nice thought to take to bed, night everyone,

Peace

[TheVoyager]

[..cut..]
Now, if we accept that we have engrams from past lives, this leads to a further two possibilities: either:

(a) that we have a ‘soul’ which continues in this body from life to life, taking with it the results of actions performed in previous lives which may be called karma, including engrams, further adding to this karma by our actions in our current life, or
(b) that our engrams are passed to us genetically by our parents in cellular form in the zygote. [..cut..] Therefore either (i) our engram load is increasing continuously and has done so for thousands (millions?) of years, placing us in possession of millions of unresolved engrams, or (ii) engrams have a finite life, and tend to fade with the passage of time.
[..cut..]


Hi Bram,

I don't know about Scientology, but your question reminded me of Holographic Kinetics by Steve Richards (discussed elsewhere on the forum), so here's his answer in case your interested in correlating different practices:

If they are talking about the same thing - in HK you among other things also look at issues that caused pain in this/past lives and blow that of your timeline - the engrams would come BOTH:
- from your own soul/spirit timeline indefinitley, and
- from your ancestors down to the seventh generation. (At least when I did a session only issues up to 7 generations down the timeline were considered, so I think that's it). No idea where that cut-off time comes from though :)

Thanks for your thought-provoking questions, I never considered how these things might multiply if there was no cut-off date... I hope HK is right and there IS a cut-off date, otherwise the accummulation would be astronomical.


From what I understand, the part of Holographic Kinetics that works is all based on Dianetics, repackaged in a slightly different format.


Hi Bill,

First of all I want to say that I appreciate very much the information and knowledge about the R. Hubbard tech that you and other members of the forum (jim, amzer zo etc.) are providing here.

On the other hand I find it intriguing that you would state the following:

"From what I understand, the part of Holographic Kinetics that works is all based on Dianetics, repackaged in a slightly different format."

... since I've read your reply to Music on his thread "Bill, Why Dianetics is Not For Me" (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59506-Bill-Why-Dianetics-is-Not-For-Me&p=680533&viewfull=1#post680533), and if I understand correctly your above statement, you are saying that there is a part of HK that works and there is a part that doesn't work, and the part that does work is all based on Dianetics.

I would like to ask you the following questions:

On what do you base your understanding about the HK technology?
Is it that you've had a HK session or maybe you have even made a HK course?
According to your understanding, which part of HK works and which part it doesn't work?

Thank you.

My information about Holographic Kinetics is largely based on Amzer Zo's reports in various forum threads of some sessions (one or two of which have been pretty spectacular) -- complemented by videos I have watched. I have no direct personal experience.

The sessions that Amzer Zo described look very similar indeed to me to Dianetics sessions. (Maybe AZ can confirm.) And the sessions do seem to have had real, solid and beneficial results. I can understand why, and this is all good.

In other areas, Steve Richards attempts to handle entities, and as best I can see these techniques are more shamanic and are not based on Hubbard's work. While he's evidently had some success in those areas (as have many others practicing a wide variety of techniques), he is entering into dangerous areas here if there are aspects to this very large and potent realm which he may not have all the available information about.

Entity handling is (or can be) a real Pandora's Box, and when that box lid is opened the practitioner had better be very able and knowledgable indeed, or there's a certain risk that matters can be made worse. That's the essence of why I summarized as I did.

Thank you for your answer, Bill.

I'd like to mention that I have also had an opportunity to read a few transcripts of HK sessions that were at some point put online by Annalie, which, as I understand, were all transcripts of her surrogate sessions.

I would say that there is a huge difference from one having a session of whatever technique it might be, or reading about it, to actually comprehending the rules, having the knowledge and knowing the procedures that are applied during such session.



[...]

The sessions that Amzer Zo described look very similar indeed to me to Dianetics sessions. (Maybe AZ can confirm.)...

[...]

Definitely. That's what it sounded to me as well; a Dianetics session with all its communications components (especially the acknowledgement of whatever answer comes up) down to the "re-living" of incidents as if happening in present time, by-passing the soul's/mind's "I remember," by directly addressing "spirit" (i.e. "File Clerk" in Dianetics, which LRH later realized to be the thetan/being itself).


Since Amzer Zo says that a HK session sounded to him as a Dianetics session with all its communications components, it might be fair at least to mention that HK does not use any external devices such as an e-meter.
I wonder if Amzer Zo has done any HK session or is it that his understanding is based on his research.

I would agree with you Bill, that dealing with inter dimensional interferences (of which only one part are entities) can be and it is a very dangerous area, especially when one does not understand which game he/she is in and the rules of that game.

So it might be fair to mention that HK is based on the laws of Lore, which is the understanding of how this creation is governed. When one knows and comprehends the laws of how games are being played and how to be in charge of the game, one can then make changes.
As I understand Steve Rirchards himself is very careful when he is passing this knowledge onto his students, and the knowledge can not be gained through reading about HK technique or having a session.

Please correct me if I'm wrong Bill, but my understanding is that one of the intents of the creation of your game, which is this forum, is to learn as much as possible to bring together the best we have to set us free, to get back our power that we've handed out to others during millenniums.

If so, how about if we let us explore and find out about our options without rushing into putting labels on techniques we don't' have first hand knowledge of. I really think it's not about competition which one was first and who started what when.

[jiminii]

[..cut..]
Now, if we accept that we have engrams from past lives, this leads to a further two possibilities: either:

(a) that we have a ‘soul’ which continues in this body from life to life, taking with it the results of actions performed in previous lives which may be called karma, including engrams, further adding to this karma by our actions in our current life, or
(b) that our engrams are passed to us genetically by our parents in cellular form in the zygote. [..cut..] Therefore either (i) our engram load is increasing continuously and has done so for thousands (millions?) of years, placing us in possession of millions of unresolved engrams, or (ii) engrams have a finite life, and tend to fade with the passage of time.
[..cut..]


Hi Bram,

I don't know about Scientology, but your question reminded me of Holographic Kinetics by Steve Richards (discussed elsewhere on the forum), so here's his answer in case your interested in correlating different practices:

If they are talking about the same thing - in HK you among other things also look at issues that caused pain in this/past lives and blow that of your timeline - the engrams would come BOTH:
- from your own soul/spirit timeline indefinitley, and
- from your ancestors down to the seventh generation. (At least when I did a session only issues up to 7 generations down the timeline were considered, so I think that's it). No idea where that cut-off time comes from though :)

Thanks for your thought-provoking questions, I never considered how these things might multiply if there was no cut-off date... I hope HK is right and there IS a cut-off date, otherwise the accummulation would be astronomical.


From what I understand, the part of Holographic Kinetics that works is all based on Dianetics, repackaged in a slightly different format.


Hi Bill,

First of all I want to say that I appreciate very much the information and knowledge about the R. Hubbard tech that you and other members of the forum (jim, amzer zo etc.) are providing here.

On the other hand I find it intriguing that you would state the following:

"From what I understand, the part of Holographic Kinetics that works is all based on Dianetics, repackaged in a slightly different format."

... since I've read your reply to Music on her thread "Bill, Why Dianetics is Not For Me" (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59506-Bill-Why-Dianetics-is-Not-For-Me&p=680533&viewfull=1#post680533), and if I understand correctly your above statement, you are saying that there is a part of HK that works and there is a part that doesn't work, and the part that does work is all based on Dianetics.

I would like to ask you the following questions:

On what do you base your understanding about the HK technology?
Is it that you've had a HK session or maybe you have even made a HK course?
According to your understanding, which part of HK works and which part it doesn't work?

Thank you.

My information about Holographic Kinetics is largely based on Amzer Zo's reports in various forum threads of some sessions (one or two of which have been pretty spectacular) -- complemented by videos I have watched. I have no direct personal experience.

The sessions that Amzer Zo described look very similar indeed to me to Dianetics sessions. (Maybe AZ can confirm.) And the sessions do seem to have had real, solid and beneficial results. I can understand why, and this is all good.

In other areas, Steve Richards attempts to handle entities, and as best I can see these techniques are more shamanic and are not based on Hubbard's work. While he's evidently had some success in those areas (as have many others practicing a wide variety of techniques), he is entering into dangerous areas here if there are aspects to this very large and potent realm which he may not have all the available information about.

Entity handling is (or can be) a real Pandora's Box, and when that box lid is opened the practitioner had better be very able and knowledgable indeed, or there's a certain risk that matters can be made worse. That's the essence of why I summarized as I did.

Thank you for your answer, Bill.

I'd like to mention that I have also had an opportunity to read a few transcripts of HK sessions that were at some point put online by Annalie, which, as I understand, were all transcripts of her surrogate sessions.

I would say that there is a huge difference from one having a session of whatever technique it might be, or reading about it, to actually comprehending the rules, having the knowledge and knowing the procedures that are applied during such session.



[...]

The sessions that Amzer Zo described look very similar indeed to me to Dianetics sessions. (Maybe AZ can confirm.)...

[...]

Definitely. That's what it sounded to me as well; a Dianetics session with all its communications components (especially the acknowledgement of whatever answer comes up) down to the "re-living" of incidents as if happening in present time, by-passing the soul's/mind's "I remember," by directly addressing "spirit" (i.e. "File Clerk" in Dianetics, which LRH later realized to be the thetan/being itself).


Since Amzer Zo says that a HK session sounded to him as a Dianetics session with all its communications components, it might be fair at least to mention that HK does not use any external devices such as an e-meter.
I wonder if Amzer Zo has done any HK session or is it that his understanding is based on his research.

I would agree with you Bill, that dealing with inter dimensional interferences (of which only one part are entities) can be and it is a very dangerous area, especially when one does not understand which game he/she is in and the rules of that game.

So it might be fair to mention that HK is based on the laws of Lore, which is the understanding of how this creation is governed. When one knows and comprehends the laws of how games are being played and how to be in charge of the game, one can then make changes.
As I understand Steve Rirchards himself is very careful when he is passing this knowledge onto his students, and the knowledge can not be gained through reading about HK technique or having a session.

Please correct me if I'm wrong Bill, but my understanding is that one of the intents of the creation of your game, which is this forum, is to learn as much as possible to bring together the best we have to set us free, to get back our power that we've handed out to others during millenniums.

If so, how about if we let us explore and find out about our options without rushing into putting labels on techniques we don't' have first hand knowledge of. I really think it's not about competition which one was first and who started what when.

book one ... the dianetics book is used all over the world and doesn't use a meter ...
but it takes hours and hours to do it ... running over and over the engram
the new dianetics is to run a chain to it's beginning and then ask the question "what is the thought you had that started this incident" . don't know the exact wording
and the chain blows instantly

it doesn't matter if you are using a book with no meter or the new way with a meter

dianetics will eventually make you go clear

jim

[Hervé]

[...]


Since Amzer Zo says that a HK session sounded to him as a Dianetics session with all its communications components, it might be fair at least to mention that HK does not use any external devices such as an e-meter.

[...]

As jiminii mentioned, "Book One" sessions are done without an e-meter.

Listening to Steve Richards recounts of some sessions, the parallels between Book One sessions and HK sessions are uncanny.

On the other hand, surrogate sessions are not part of the original Book One. However, HK surrogate sessions involve what jiminii talked about with "being the space" of the other person being processed and also involved surrendering the control of one's own space to another being in order for the surrogate session to take place.

That's not much different than jim being "audited"/processed via another body of his on "Base 2."

[jiminii]

[...]


Since Amzer Zo says that a HK session sounded to him as a Dianetics session with all its communications components, it might be fair at least to mention that HK does not use any external devices such as an e-meter.

[...]

As jiminii mentioned, "Book One" sessions are done without an e-meter.

Listening to Steve Richards recounts of some sessions, the parallels between Book One sessions and HK sessions are uncanny.

On the other hand, surrogate sessions are not part of the original Book One. However, HK surrogate sessions involve what jiminii talked about with "being the space" of the other person being processed and also involved surrendering the control of one's own space to another being in order for the surrogate session to take place.

That's not much different than jim being "audited"/processed via another body of his on "Base 2."

yes you audit one of the viewpoints and the other viewpoints get it too ... even if they are not aware of it .. life just starts changing for them because the viewpoint is not the spirit .. it is like putting on a helmet and this helmet takes over the body and feels and controls it .. but it is just one viewpoint of one body ... the spirit can create many and I guess it depends on how big the spirit is ..


jim

[Hervé]

On the other hand, this is also akin to "Bodies in Pawn" whereby someone, somewhere, somehow is hypnotized and ordered to take on a reptilian shape, then go to Washington DC and take over la Clinton when she is under the influence of that white stuff -- courtesy of her husband -- and make her do silly thing to discredit her... etc...


Excerpts (fair use) from various LRH lectures which give other ways to "occupy" more than one body:

Body in pawn: Something floating in fluid or under an electronic -- constant electronic bath. You'll find these described: They're lying on a pallet or something of the sort; the body is completely motionless. And at the foot of this will be something that looks like a window, and it's not a window. (This is at the origin of most of these abductions stories...)

Occasionally you'll run into a place where they're holding a body in pawn. That is, a body is held here, and it is hypnotized or knocked out and the person is told that he belongs here but must go over here and live. You know, a guy in Afghanistan is hypnotized and they say: "Now you live in Bremerton, Washington" and he'd go to Bremerton, Washington; he's under compulsion. A hypnotist will hypnotize somebody and make him travel or astral walk. Hypnotists know about this. Well, they didn't realize you could do it with magnitude, and you can. You can almost move the whole individual out.


Let me tell you some of the things that can be done to a human being, and understand that I am still talking about theta bodies because there's not any difference except a human being and his mind as he exists today - Homo Sapiens - it's just more of them.

You can hypnotize a human being or drug a human being and move him as a theta body, in all or in part, to remote distances and have him observe or act or communicate and move back to his body again. This has many descriptive phrases such as "astral walking". The point is that you can actually hypnotize yourself, this is one theta body hypnotizing another theta body inside yourself and send that other theta body off to some vast distance and observe something and have it come back and so on.

This is very common. Your hypnotist knows this manifestation very well. These are very elementary, quite well known manifestations. Self hypnosis is one line hypnotizing another line - in you.

[jiminii]

On the other hand, this is also akin to "Bodies in Pawn" whereby someone, somewhere, somehow is hypnotized and ordered to take on a reptilian shape, then go to Washington DC and take over la Clinton when she is under the influence of that white stuff -- courtesy of her husband -- and make her do silly thing to discredit her... etc...


Excerpts from various LRH lectures which give other ways to "occupy" more than one body:

Body in pawn: Something floating in fluid or under an electronic -- constant electronic bath. You'll find these described: They're lying on a pallet or something of the sort; the body is completely motionless. And at the foot of this will be something that looks like a window, and it's not a window. (This is at the origin of most of these abductions stories...)

Occasionally you'll run into a place where they're holding a body in pawn. That is, a body is held here, and it is hypnotized or knocked out and the person is told that he belongs here but must go over here and live. You know, a guy in Afghanistan is hypnotized and they say: "Now you live in Bremerton, Washington" and he'd go to Bremerton, Washington; he's under compulsion. A hypnotist will hypnotize somebody and make him travel or astral walk. Hypnotists know about this. Well, they didn't realize you could do it with magnitude, and you can. You can almost move the whole individual out.


Let me tell you some of the things that can be done to a human being, and understand that I am still talking about theta bodies because there's not any difference except a human being and his mind as he exists today - Homo Sapiens - it's just more of them.

You can hypnotize a human being or drug a human being and move him as a theta body, in all or in part, to remote distances and have him observe or act or communicate and move back to his body again. This has many descriptive phrases such as "astral walking". The point is that you can actually hypnotize yourself, this is one theta body hypnotizing another theta body inside yourself and send that other theta body off to some vast distance and observe something and have it come back and so on.

This is very common. Your hypnotist knows this manifestation very well. These are very elementary, quite well known manifestations. Self hypnosis is one line hypnotizing another line - in you.



download the time track of theta tapes if you can find them on free zone somewhere
the commands for auditing are on the tapes ... and that is what trey audited me with.
it isn't what is in the standard line up .. because if trey is an Flag service org auditor class 12
he knows all the auditing that is done ... and this was the first time he has ever done these auditing commands from those tapes
and I think I know why ... LRH didn't want them ran ... because it would be easy to see what we were doing everywhere ..
and someone might find out we are running this piece of the time track again and try to interrupt it ..

so if you want to know look ... don't suddenly come up with some other why if you haven't checked the data I am talking about

jim

[Hervé]

[...]

... don't suddenly come up with some other why if you haven't checked the data I am talking about

jim

It's something which needs to be checked too, jim.

[jiminii]

yes since I am probably the only one on the planet anyone ever ran those auditing commands ,. the same phenomenon that inelia describes ... with all the light coming in and finding her right after ,..
it is like driving down that road and something puts the foot of mine on the brake so the car we can't see doesn't hit us

I can almost touch it ,.... but this website is awesome ... so many viewpoints ...

I thank you all ... for helping me to wake up ...

I admit I have been a bit cocky at some time ... but I don't need to anymore ... I can let that go ... found some friends that can somehow relate ..

nice
jim

[Czarek]

download the time track of theta tapes if you can find them on free zone somewhere
the commands for auditing are on the tapes ... and that is what trey audited me with.

Jim,
I've recently purchased a set of time track theta tapes and the ones I got do not have any commands for auditing.
See my post http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59041-LRH--L.-Ron-Hubbard-&p=681868&viewfull=1#post681868

[jiminii]

download the time track of theta tapes if you can find them on free zone somewhere
the commands for auditing are on the tapes ... and that is what trey audited me with.

Jim,
I've recently purchased a set of time track theta tapes and the ones I got do not have any commands for auditing.
See my post http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59041-LRH--L.-Ron-Hubbard-&p=681868&viewfull=1#post681868

they are on the tape where he talks about a spirit having more than one body ///
but I can ask cathy ... she has the original tapes

jim

[Limor Wolf]

I was refraining from asking a question on this thread which I thought the answer for that would for sure be a negative one. Bill wrote in his OP -


"This is about pragmatism. It's about what works: tools that are available for use"

Yes, but are Engrams recording mental image picture of something like abductions as well? How about mind control ? what happens in a situation when a person have alters? From which one (of his so called personalities) is he clearing then?
There is logic that the reactive mind will record situations where pain is ingrained with unconsciousness, but can Engrams be completely removed in such situations?

Well, Going through the 'Horus-Ra' thread just now I bumped into a post by TrumanCash which he posted a year ago and where Houman asked him:


" Are you still being abducted?

2.a If no, how did you stop it? (or did it stop on its own?)"

Truman then went to describe how he was able to decrease the amount of abductions and elaborated:


"I did not do this by myself. I was helped by two very experienced people who had been personally trained by L. Ron Hubbard. However, these two people are not members of the Church of Scientology nor am I. The techniques that I learned to recover my abduction memories as well as past life memories were also developed by Mr. Hubbard. I used the techniques in two of Mr. Hubbard's books--DIANETICS, THE MODERN SCIENCE OF MENTAL HEALTH (1950) and SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL (1951). As I mentioned in the EYE OF RA, I also once used what I call "light trance hypnosis" to verify some of my memories. It was not anything like stage hypnotism but was mostly just a relaxation technique."

I find this statment very interesting, I do not know if there was any reference here to alien abductions traumas and a possible successful clearing of that as a blocking factor in life, but I am happy to read Trumans words and would have been happy to ask him if this statment still stands even today

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit&p=495790&viewfull=1#post495790

[Hervé]

[...] How about mind control ? what happens in a situation when a person have alters? From which one (of his so called personalities) is he clearing then?
There is logic that the reactive mind will record situations where pain is ingrained with unconsciousness, but can Engrams be completely removed in such situations?

[...]
[/URL]

This may, partly, answer your question: "[URL="http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit&p=485533&viewfull=1#post485533"]The Greenbaum Speech (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit&p=495790&viewfull=1#post495790)"

However, the MKultra type of mind control is most probably the reason why LRH instituted a policy of refusing for processing anyone, due to experience in trying to do so, with a history of institutionalization or having gone through "government" clearance for "Secret" and above: too much trouble and also, possibly, plants creating trouble and blaming it on Dianetics/SCN processings.

Never mind supersoldiers like Duncan O'Finioan who prefer not to seek the help of deprogrammers to avoid finding them dead when coming out of a session...

[Ilie Pandia]

I have a question about the dianetics auditing. Can one still benefit from a session that is not in his mother tongue? I suspect things may get rather emotional as you get close to an engram so having to deal with a foreign language as well could be a problem.

[gralsfighter]

No doubt
you do benefit.

and for the auditing question part: Normaly its stricly forbidden to go over misunderstood words and let you do things you don't understand.

[Hervé]

I have a question about the dianetics auditing. Can one still benefit from a session that is not in his mother tongue? I suspect things may get rather emotional as you get close to an engram so having to deal with a foreign language as well could be a problem.

The auditor could always ask to clarify what it means or to translate, as well as ask if there could be any play on words with that foreign language, keeping in mind that the reactive mind takes things very litteraly. Also, the auditor could ask if there were any consequences in one's subsequent life from the specific wording recovered in an incident. When the "PC"/auditee realises something like:

"Oh, yeah... hahahaha... that's why I've been a knucklehead all my life... isn't that stupid... hahahehehe..." job done!

For example, if the mother needed a blood transfusion during her pregnancy or while giving birth and her blood type is B-, then the end result is both mother and child stuck with a post hypnotic command of "be negative" from someone ordering a B- blood type for the transfusion.

That command works for English speaking people but not necessarily for other languages.

[we-R-one]

I have a question I've been meaning to ask...So how does this ideology of clearing engrams, fit in with NDE's? It seems the typical experience of a NDE talks about soul growth and that life on Earth is merely an illusion and not real. This message seems consistent on every NDE I have looked at, which really hasn't been a ton, nor is my method of any scientific importance. I don't ever remember reading anything describing living on Earth as a prison planet of trapped souls if I'm understanding LRH's viewpoint. So to refresh my memory since so much has been posted and I can't sift through all of it again, can someone please revisit as to what the supposed purpose of being on Earth is and what are we basing this information on? Is it the channeling of one individual? Sorry I didn't ask this question sooner while all the info was fresh in my head and everyone elses.

[Hervé]

I have a question I've been meaning to ask...So how does this ideology of clearing engrams, fit in with NDE's? It seems the typical experience of a NDE talks about soul growth and that life on Earth is merely an illusion and not real...

[...]

My, my, my... what confusion can be weaved around this subject...

First of all, clearing engrams is not an "ideology" (like Marxism) but a practical way of unburdening past emotional charge from one's mind/field. A practical way of doing something is called a technology.

Second, and IMO from what I understood of LRH materials on the subject, published NDEs accounts are a cosmic psyop/cointelpro designed to trap "souls" at the end of that "white light" beam and into an implant station to be readied and be send with a whitewashed memory back to the prison planet within the next 24 hours in search of a new body in maternity wards...

It's a cosmic psyop/cointelpro operation which sends back people to Earth with missions, life paths, etc... an indeed it's all an illusion for most people on Earth since those are under an hypnotic trance as much as any stage hypnotist product who believe to be a dog or a cat or living in paradise feeding off all these exotic fruits... those are the zombies, AKA sheeple, etc...

Remember that the "critters" out there who perform their daily quota of abductions are able to project into human minds any one's "loved ones" as an overlay over their real appearance as well as beam "love" vibrations in much the same way they can beam a heart attack à la Robert Duncan (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?56002-Must-Read-The-Matrix-Deciphered-by-Dr-Robert-Duncan)'s brain heterodyning.

It's actually quite a process of industrial scale that has been operating for eons:


[...]

About other functioning bodies in other areas or off planet:



THE ROLE OF THE EARTH
November 1952
[excerpts, fair use]

I [LRH] took a little girl one night during a demonstration and put her on the E-Meter - started questioning her and the next thing you knew this little girl was shaking in such a degree that the chair legs were rattling against the floor - I was going at her about something just to show the class what the series of questions would be about current life - and she said: "You mustn't ask me any questions. You mustn't ask me any questions. You mustn't. You mustn't. You mustn't."

"Where are you?"

"I am sitting before a big panel... I didn't use to sit there - I am sitting there right now. This - that's me. I - I sit in front of this panel. This is my job! This is my job. I am not supposed to tell you what my job is, but there's this panel." and so forth.

I said: "It's a communicator switchboard"

"No-ooo!" and she just starts going on .

I said: "Well, you wouldn't mind telling me the codes that go across the panel..." and she passed right straight on out. She'd never heard of bodies in pawn or other governments or invader forces or anything of the sort. So I snapped her around and carried on with the rest of the questioning, and was simply able to do so because I happened to know - this is a very funny thing to say - but I happen to know her commanding officer! And gave her - silly, isn't it - and gave her the messages which had gone across her panel an hour before, at which moment she quieted down.

And she says: "Well, I'll probably be taken all to pieces in the morning". And so I said: "No, you will not be." And she wasn't. But she was a communicator who was running a communications switchboard. She's a communicator in a system known as the space stations.

The space stations exist out here in the solar system. They use the asteroids. It's a very peculiar system. This solar system has a broken up planet (smojers) - the asteroid belt. It gives a low-gravity platform for take off and so on, and that broken planet is of considerable interest as a space station - that is to say, as a galactic jump (spring board).

Now, there aren't any planets up at this end of the galaxy which form a good galactic entering spot for incoming transport and other ships. But this beautiful, broken up planet here with a light - gravity sun and moon, makes a very ideal spot. And as a result, this area of the solar system got into prominence. It got into a little bit of prominence, and it's slightly a house of contention.

The 4th Invader Force was there. The 5th Invader Force came in to use this area - and the name of this solar system is Space Station 33.

They started to use this area without suspecting that the 4th Invader Force had been there for God knows how many skillion years, had been sitting down - and they have their installations up on Mars, and they have a tremendous, screened operation. It has gone into 100% holding force. And it does everything it does with tremendous coversion. It's sitting behind a defense screen of enormous size, and nobody - it's practically impossible to penetrate that except as a Thetan. And if you penetrate it as a Thetan, you go through the Martian Screen, and they got you!
Once "they" got you, then you're a new implanted recruit, put in a body which is gonna be used as a "body in pawn (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59041-LRH--L.-Ron-Hubbard-&p=673114&viewfull=1#post673114)" for your new mission on Earth or whatever planet "they" want to send you to.


The 5th Invader Force all of a sudden started to lose crews and they didn't know where they were going. And they got a little more upset about it and a little more upset and a little more upset about it. And a battalion was sent down here to Earth 8200 years ago - The 3rd Battalion. They came down in the Himalayas - the upper head lands, up about, oh, I'd say 72 miles NW of Khyber Pass - and put a base there, and still not believing that there was anything like an Invader Force operating in this system, failed to take any vaguest precautions with regard to their installations. They put up no defenses; after all, what was here? Nothing but Homo sapiens. That was just nothing, no danger, no menace, and so on.

And they were in this installation just for a very short time when all of a sudden, with a terrific crash, the 4th Invader Force - which was a little more active then than it has become since - knocked out this whole battalion (3,000 beings) and picked up all of its staff, all of its staff officers and so forth, and took them through to Mars and then knocked them back into this human race here. They are still here. There are saucer crews here; there are all sorts of things on Earth here from the 5th Invader Force. Very interesting.

And the 5th Invader Force, out of its own protection, took over Venus - oh, relatively in modern times - took over Venus and tried to stabilize the Venusian. If you called a 5th Invader, though, a Venusian, he would probably shoot out of hand, because it would be a horrible insult. They merely monitor the government of Venus, and they leave Mars strictly alone.

Now, this is really, roughly, a rundown of the "political" situation in the solar system. Now, that's very interesting, because it gives you, as preclears, bodies in pawns of the 4th Invader Force. It gives you tremendous amount of personnel that have been poured down here for various nefarious purposes, all of them under some kind of a covert direction (other determinism). Typical game: Every goal they've gotten, they have a reason why they can't reach the goal, see? I mean typical game sort of an implant these people are operating on. They're relatively inefficient but, boy, can they hold onto things! Do they accumulate MEST and that sort of thing! You've got your big holding operations. And you've got running through this a 5th Invader Force operation which is strictly, really, disinterested in Earth ("They are not interested in you") at all, as such, because Earth is heavy - gravity planet, and who the hell wants a heavy-gravity planet?

Earth has been consistently used as a prison; and it's a prison, and it is heavily screened. There are installations in Mongolia, there are installations in the Pyrenees here on Earth, and there are installations down in the Mountains of the Moon (Central Africa between Uganda and Zaire) which pick up, very often, people on death. And the thetan just doesn't know what is going on.

He's in a state of deep hypnosis, really and the moment he finds himself in association with a dead body, the thing keys [in] and he reports to where he's supposed to go. And he's changed and moved around here and there and comes back down.

Really, from death back to assumption of a new body and so on, is ordinarily a time period of 15 minutes and he as 3 engrams in those 15 minutes: 1) Death 2) The [memory] wipeout and implants between lives 3) the assumption - knocking out the GE and taking over a body at birth.PS: for a glossary of terms see: http://www.xenu-directory.net/glossary/glossary_a.htm


There aren't that many red pills available to get out of that matrix...

LRH summarizes the situation of the remaining aware individuals on this planet as:

"We are the not quite gone standing in the graveyard of the long gone."

[jiminii]

I have a question about the dianetics auditing. Can one still benefit from a session that is not in his mother tongue? I suspect things may get rather emotional as you get close to an engram so having to deal with a foreign language as well could be a problem.

The auditor could always ask to clarify what it means or to translate, as well as ask if there could be any play on words with that foreign language, keeping in mind that the reactive mind takes things very litteraly. Also, the auditor could ask if there were any consequences in one's subsequent life from the specific wording recovered in an incident. When the "PC"/auditee realises something like:

"Oh, yeah... hahahaha... that's why I've been a knucklehead all my life... isn't that stupid... hahahehehe..." job done!

For example, if the mother needed a blood transfusion during her pregnancy or while giving birth and her blood type is B-, then the end result is both mother and child stuck with a post hypnotic command of "be negative" from someone ordering a B- blood type for the transfusion.

That command works for English speaking people but not necessarily for other languages.

ok I found the phoenix lectures all on mp3 files
got the pilot from free zone .. with excaliber all of it
i got life continuum all on mp3 files
I got source of life energy
science of survival
technique 88
thought emotion
thought emotion effort
all on mp3 files

I got more somewhere else
whay do I do with them

jim

[gralsfighter]

I I don't ever remember reading anything describing living on Earth as a prison planet of trapped souls

?
Samsara
The concept of a cycle of repeated reincarnation.
you cant go elsewhere.
Thats the concept of a prison

or read ET 101



purpose on beeing on Earth

having fun.

But no, I dont mean Sex, Drugs and Rockn Roll.
Its like Bill said: playing a game.
there are many planets who need a Genesis project.
gralsfighter

[we-R-one]

Gralsfighter I think you're taking what I'm saying out of context. I'll explain later, don't have time right now. Thanks for highlighting my typos, lol, yeesh, guess I better do a better job of proofreading.

[AwakeInADream]

ok I found the phoenix lectures all on mp3 files
got the pilot from free zone .. with excaliber all of it
i got life continuum all on mp3 files
I got source of life energy
science of survival
technique 88
thought emotion
thought emotion effort
all on mp3 files

I got more somewhere else
whay do I do with them

jim

Hi Jim!:)

If you want to share your mp3 files you could start a free account on Soundcloud and then link the files in your posts.:)

http://soundcloud.com/

[gralsfighter]

Gralsfighter I think you're taking what I'm saying out of context.

Maybe that fits your question?

http://paramejgian.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/what-matrix/

gralsfighter

[webyourstuff]

Bill, thanks for sharing your viewpoint on this! A few quick (?) questions:

I remember a past post, when you mentioned finding pre-1970 Dianetics books to audit, but they aren't easy to come by. Would you mind sharing your PDF on Book One? Or do you have recommendations on legit auditing centers?

....

Thanks! :)

Talking Fish ( and Bill) - I want to point out the Church of Scientology is very protective of copy rights. I don't advise you to publicly share pdfs. Yes, I would bet they have spies on this forum. They have them everywhere else!

[Hervé]

[...]

Talking Fish ( and Bill) - I want to point out the Church of Scientology is very protective of copy rights. I don't advise you to publicly share pdfs. Yes, I would bet they have spies on this forum. They have them everywhere else!

Most of the early materials have lapsed and fallen into the public domain.

[Bill Ryan]

[...]

Talking Fish ( and Bill) - I want to point out the Church of Scientology is very protective of copy rights. I don't advise you to publicly share pdfs. Yes, I would bet they have spies on this forum. They have them everywhere else!

Most of the early materials have lapsed and fallen into the public domain.


Everything's available here (3.6 Gb zip file, expanding to over 6 Gb):

http://torrents.thepiratebay.org/4701972/Library_of_L_Ron_Hubbard_texts_from_Free_Zone_Scientology.4701972.TPB.torrent

[webyourstuff]

Bill a question if i may. ( un loaded )

My auditing experience is limited compared to yours.


When an auditor asks you to think of things does this usuallly as a by product bring up memories and visions of past events ?

If so , where do these visual memories manifest ? ie what part of the brian ,in your opinion , facilitates the recognition of said events ?

AND , Is the e meter trying to read the electromagnetic pulses attributed to extra mind mental energy created by exersizing it ?

Thank you

Naniu

In Dianetics, you are asked to find an area of discomfort, then the questions, are directed there. In higher level auditing, a meter is used. The auditor will ask a number of questions that could elicit a response, then take up the question that gives a reaction on the meter. Further questions are then related to this area found.

Auditing does NOT take place in the brain. Rather, in the spiritual space surrounding the brain. You are not a brain. You are a spiritual being who HAS a brain.

[webyourstuff]

Jiminii said he is the viewpoint of Maitreya - how does one take that?

I have no idea what to do with that concept. I'm reading what Jim writes (which is quite a lot) and trying to understand. He's clearly trying to tell us something which he considers very important. I have not asked Jim this, but I have the strong idea that he was 'told' or 'knew' that he had to come here. That gets my interest. (Inelia was similar, some of you may recall.)

That -- the relaying of an important message for consideration -- is not the first time this has happened on this forum. We had read, and been most interested by, Bright Garlick, Simon Parkes, Clif High, and many, many others. I personally don't know whether to take it literally or exactly, or not. But I think it belongs here. The intelligent interest from [most of] the members justifies that.


Also, thrown in with saying he is the viewpoint of LRH - though not channelling, as has been decided...so of whom is this whatever numbered coming?

I don't think this is channeling (in the normally accepted sense of the word, like Messages from Matthew or anything from Mike Quinsey). I think this is something else. For instance, we're not getting from Jim a page of text which is a message we're urged to read and take seriously as some definitive pronouncement about which we have no say. At least, that's not how I am regarding it.

BECAUSE Jim is sharing so much of himself, openly, vulnerably and in trust, including a lot of his life story and many things that he freely admits he does not understand, I find myself pretty patient with all this, and also find it very interesting. I admire Jim's courage and integrity, actually.

A personal statement, for clarity: I do not endorse his claims. Neither am I dismissing them. In fact, I still have not read everything Jim has written.

One of the criteria we use when considering membership applications is: "Would we want to sit down and have a cup of coffee with this interesting person?"

In Jim's case, we all felt we would, indeed. That is still the case.

Hubbard stated in "Hymn of Asia" that he was Maitreya. Whether he meant it, or whether this was "poetic license", I have no idea. I do not know of him saying or making a claim anywhere else.

[Hervé]

[...]

Hubbard stated in "Hymn of Asia" that he was Maitreya. Whether he meant it, or whether this was "poetic license", I have no idea. I do not know of him saying or making a claim anywhere else.

Ron never made that claim, he just asked the question: "Am I Maitreya?" leaving it to the attendance (or readers) to answer the question for themselves.

[webyourstuff]

I have, perhaps, a delicate question and my intent is to understand, not necessarily to judge. L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of this church.... his works were bastardized and co-opted by what is now this Church of Scientology? Yes? Perhaps this is an overly-simplified question... Who/what are these beings that have stolen his work and morphed it into something that appears quite evil? Why haven't the supporters of L. Ron's work (Ron's Org?) launched a counter-rebellion? Why has this church been permitted to imprison people, brainwash them and intimidate them so? Why do the Ron's org people not fight back? What' the worst thing that can happen?

My, what questions! All valid, and us ex-Scientologists ask that of ourselves often.

What I would say is the effectiveness of the control model used by Scientology. There are many pieces to that puzzle. I can give you a few: First off, it works! It really really does! They give you a taste of it, then, when you're committed, they make demands on your integrity before they will give you more. Well, they SAY they are asking you to up your integrity, but as you will see, it really destroys your free will. For instance, if you voice an opinion the least bit threatening/ contrary to Scientology, you may have to spend time with an Ethics Officer to find out what ethical weaknesses you have that would cause you to say such a thing. You soon find yourself being very careful of your thoughts so they don't get you in trouble. You also start avoiding people who cause you to think such thoughts. The auditing is SO successful, you find yourself cutting back your thought processes just so you have hope of more processing.

Another is, if you have a disagreement, you are not allowed to voice it to anyone else BUT an Ethics Officer. Since nobody talks aloud about their disagreements, you don't know other people have disagreements. You are also required to do confessionals. Supposedly, these confessionals are private and confidential. They aren't. All confessions are written down. Nowadays, I hear they are videotaped! If you leave and step out of line, the stuff in these confessionals becomes blackmail.

Well, I can go on all night answering your questions. But I'm tired, and I want to go to bed. Consider this a start.

On youtube, seek out ToryMagoo44. She explains this better than I can.

Best
Laura

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Bill a question if i may. ( un loaded )

My auditing experience is limited compared to yours.


When an auditor asks you to think of things does this usuallly as a by product bring up memories and visions of past events ?

If so , where do these visual memories manifest ? ie what part of the brian ,in your opinion , facilitates the recognition of said events ?

AND , Is the e meter trying to read the electromagnetic pulses attributed to extra mind mental energy created by exersizing it ?

Thank you

Naniu

In Dianetics, you are asked to find an area of discomfort, then the questions, are directed there. In higher level auditing, a meter is used. The auditor will ask a number of questions that could elicit a response, then take up the question that gives a reaction on the meter. Further questions are then related to this area found.

Auditing does NOT take place in the brain. Rather, in the spiritual space surrounding the brain. You are not a brain. You are a spiritual being who HAS a brain.

I completely agree with you. It is widely accepted that the Pineal Gland is the transcendental gateway.. the link from spirit to mind ... and i respect that auditing proper, is a spiritual exersise.

my original apraisil was simply the e meter read the third eye / pineal gland .. when i was challenged on this it prompted me to qualify my statement to show the physical machinations that happens during an auditing session.


Naniu

[wegge]

[...]

Hubbard stated in "Hymn of Asia" that he was Maitreya. Whether he meant it, or whether this was "poetic license", I have no idea. I do not know of him saying or making a claim anywhere else.

Ron never made that claim, he just asked the question: "Am I Maitreya?" leaving it to the attendance (or readers) to answer the question for themselves.

In Peter Moons "Montauk and the Book of the Dead" he writes about his life in Scientology. He was at the Apollo and was into contact with Hubbard. He says Hubbard made some statements which implicated that he really thought he is Maitreya.

[webyourstuff]

Why do the Ron's org people not fight back?But they do. There's a LOT of good information out there for those who want to spend a little time digging. And much of the 'fight back' occurs in spiritual realms. The 'Church' is not nearly as powerful or influential as it was, or wants to be.



Im not having much luck looking for the groups fighting back. I will re read the threads and look again, but as I have little knowledge of Scientology nor the groups involved perhaps you can give a list of people organizations to look further into. Google search of Rons Org has led me to some websites that seem a bit off
and others that seem safe and worthy of exploring. I would appreciate any suggestions for what to avoid and what to look into more. Heres two examples of websites one of which I think I will avoid the other look further.

http://www.ronsorg.com/-- This one seems like a good starting point to look further


Church of Scientology's favorite weapons are:

Posting lies on the internet about a person> The intention is to make the person look like an unreliable source so people won't believe them.
Following people, harassing them as needed.
Fake or spurious legal suits that cause a person to get entangled in legal fees and cause them to go broke.
Posting confidential confessional information about the person. Their "public relations" book state that a little bit of truth and some heavy lies is effective because the observer finds out part of it is true, then believes the rest.
Posting to all church members a statement of "crimes" committed by the person, and forbidding all church members to have any contact with that person. This often breaks up families, friendships, has forced bosses to fire employees, landlords to evict tenants, etc.
People and groups are often sued for possession/ use of copyright materials. This has forced some groups to close down.
They have been known to drug, hypnotyse members, and force them to do things under that condition, and also to plant suicidal thoughts in the person's head.
I have heard that murder and attempted murder is in their arsenal repertoire. I have no first hand knowledge of this. I do have first hand knowledge of the above.


This is a partial list.

[jiminii]

I will try to clear up some confusion here
a thetan by definition is the spirit itself ... but the spirit itself is a static ... it has no motion .. no wavelength no mass no energy no space and no time ... it is like a complete black void (or can be white .. I've seen both) ok the thetan is outside this universe . and every thetan (spirit) that is operating inside this universe is outside this universe (MEST matter energy space and time universe) .. all of them are outside creating this universe (MEST) .. so it is like they have to put a pin hole into this physical universe to see what is inside ... this is a viewpoint ... now this is what most people think of as the spirit that looks like a golden ball next to the body it is managing .. the viewpoint is not the thetan (spirit) it is a creation by the spirit to have a place to view from ... ok if you are outside the body .. you are viewing from the viewpoint itself .. if you are inside the body your viewpoint has been shifted to use the eyes and ears of the body and all it's perceptions ... it takes awhile to do this .. I heard from 49 days to 51 days something like that .. where there is a image of a body they wrap this viewpoint around to thoroughly shift it's viewpoint to needing a body to operate in and when it takes on a body it's viewpoint is shifted from the viewpoint to the body eyes and perceptions ...

just look at the viewpoint like you look at the idea of a spirit .. next to the body ... but it is not the spirit .. the spirit is outside this universe .. the viewpoint is a creation by the spirit to be able to look inside this universe ... and the spirit outside this universe can make more than one viewpoint ... this means it can run more than one timeline

any questions?

jim

[webyourstuff]

It is true that outsiders CLAIM that as the highest most secret of teachings...I am sharing a perspective in hopes you can clear it up (especially whilst people are discussing the details in the LRH thread, as if it is something to be discussed as a piece of true history).

I don't disbelieve anything, just looking for clarity, sharing a view from the outside in hopes of being enlightened. I would appreciate anyone familiar's take on that particular teaching.

Is it ramblings taken out of context?

Is it Hubbard's "truth" once he was completely "clear"?

Is there any divine or ET inspiration?

Is there "levels", stepped teachings, to Hubbard's work? Or is that complete myth/bastardization?

I have shared with you the info I was able to find--which is kind of the mainstream view, kindly share your interpretation/data? Thanks


ADDED:

I guess what gets me is this:


Thousands of people have reported that it works for auditing purposes, and all I can tell you is that people who run the processes get a great deal of expanded awareness and ability from it. And that's all that counts."

If I interpret your original answer correctly, you are saying that not only is it not an important teaching, it is not even a story (which is how I read it). Instead it describes some "processes" that can be "run" to expand awareness and abilities? I am really lost now...what processes would that be?

I don't know about the "highest most secret" bit. There is a belief that telling people "want to know a secret?" sells. There is a bit of thought that if it got public, public would think Scientology is crazy. So you have to read it while in a course room with an instructor looking on, who must pick up any concerns you may have.

There is NO channeling. That would be taking information from an unknown source. A definite no-no.

The problem with the OT3 materials getting public is it is out of context, therefore looks weirder than what I saw in the OT3 course room, and is missing a LOT of data, that data being what to do with the information.

I did the OT3 stuff, and I got phenomenal gains from it.

BTW, it was immediately after I did OT3 that things started to look weird inside the church, I stuck around and tried to help fix it for awhile. But the problem came from the top. It was a lost cause.

[webyourstuff]

My 5 cents ... I have noticed that the Scientology theme has basically took over the topics here on project avalon ... Perhaps, it is the old divide-conquest tactics being played so we put our efforts on discussing it, I am not saying it is not worth to discuss it but as I learned so far reading all the posts, isn`t there a third party on this subject that want us all loose our focus on other current issues ? Anyway, not judging but just questioning.
Peace to all.

This is a hot topic for me. I am glad to see it here. Divide and conquer usually consists of a lot of heckling, which I've seen none of. I presume others, like me, really want to discuss the topic.

[jiminii]

I will try to clear up some confusion here
a thetan by definition is the spirit itself ... but the spirit itself is a static ... it has no motion .. no wavelength no mass no energy no space and no time ... it is like a complete black void (or can be white .. I've seen both) ok the thetan is outside this universe . and every thetan (spirit) that is operating inside this universe is outside this universe (MEST matter energy space and time universe) .. all of them are outside creating this universe (MEST) .. so it is like they have to put a pin hole into this physical universe to see what is inside ... this is a viewpoint ... now this is what most people think of as the spirit that looks like a golden ball next to the body it is managing .. the viewpoint is not the thetan (spirit) it is a creation by the spirit to have a place to view from ... ok if you are outside the body .. you are viewing from the viewpoint itself .. if you are inside the body your viewpoint has been shifted to use the eyes and ears of the body and all it's perceptions ... it takes awhile to do this .. I heard from 49 days to 51 days something like that .. where there is a image of a body they wrap this viewpoint around to thoroughly shift it's viewpoint to needing a body to operate in and when it takes on a body it's viewpoint is shifted from the viewpoint to the body eyes and perceptions ...

just look at the viewpoint like you look at the idea of a spirit .. next to the body ... but it is not the spirit .. the spirit is outside this universe .. the viewpoint is a creation by the spirit to be able to look inside this universe ... and the spirit outside this universe can make more than one viewpoint ... this means it can run more than one timeline

any questions?

jim

ok here is more ....

we take one broken piece off the main static called theta

the broken piece is also source and is also a static but it is an individual piece ... you can create more spirits by breaking more pieces off this bigger piece ...

so one spirit is capable of creating more spirits under him/her/it ...

but these are still static ... if anyone of them want to view inside the physical universe they must create a Viewpoint ... that goes inside the physical universe

OK I am a viewpoint of the spirit of Metteyya ...
I am not a viewpoint of LRH
LRH is a viewpoint of the spirit of Metteyya
Siddhartha Gautama Buddha is a viewpoint of Metteyya
I also had the inclination to say David Miscavige was one of the viewpoints of Metteyya when i was being audited by Trey but I withheld it because it didn't seem right to open that up yet ,..

but I couldn't see why at the time ... but it came out when i was talking to someone who is being trained at Ron's Org .. that has a high OT level

ok in the middle of talking about where I came from suddenly some kind of awareness opened up and this came out.

David Miscavige was setup by LRH because he knew the enemy had put many sleeper children in the Church of Scientology ... and when they grow up they will awaken and take over the church of scientology from the inside ...

so David Miscavige was instructed by LRH to do specific instructions to let LRH detach totally from the physical body so he could leave and there would be nothing like a mind or anything else attacked to LRH that would trigger him into an implant station so he could escape the force fields of the planet and go back to the central command and give them his findings ... he violated his original mission orders when he introduced scientology to this planet ... but they now know it was a necessary action too ,..

then David Miscavige was to keep all the upper OT levels out of harms reach ... and keep the technology from getting into the hands of the enemies ... so a lot of alteration was made to only handle past case but not open up anything that would allow people to open up any powerful OT levels ,,

and he would setup the church and monies to keep others from getting any of the rights to steal the organization and create the Ideal orgs for the future for some planned event that will happen ... and to create the huge publishing facilities that will allow them to correct the data without other publishing houses altering the wording to their own think ...

so he would be able to open up all the new stuff when it is ready

David Miscavige is also a Master Games Player .. the Highest known OT level on the planet ... so he was not allowed to get auditing just like they wouldn't allow me to get auditing because we have already done it from the future before we came here ...

this allowed Captain Bill Robertson to go off and open up the OT levels in Europe in case it failed in USA ,.. it would take the attention off Bill so that he could do it without being attacked and stopped ... so Bill opened up all the upper OT levels to Master Games Player course ...


so this is me ... Let the truth do what it does

jim

[Bill Ryan]

My 5 cents ... I have noticed that the Scientology theme has basically took over the topics here on project avalon ...

I just did a count. Of the 82 threads listed on the five pages of the New Posts list, two (2) are about LRH or scientology. There are more threads about the Bilderberg conference, the imminent financial collapse, and the intel agencies monitoring/spying on US citizens.

This is always the way Avalon works. It's like a conversation round a very large dinner table: the topics of interest and discussion change all the time. The topics are chosen (and created, and kept 'current') by the members -- not myself or the moderators.

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Here's a Dianetics auditor in London, England. I do not know her, but she comes recommended from a good friend.





Dear Bill,

A friend of yours [name given] called me and said there were inquiries from people in London who are interested in Dianetics auditing and gave me your contact details and Clive Nicol's, too.

I trained as a Dianetics Auditor in California at Stevens Creek and Mountain View Orgs in 1997, and have been using Dianetics to help people since then, as an independent field auditor, outside the Church.

I am based in South West London and would love to do more Dianetics auditing and would also like to do some Co-Auditing if you have anyone in London who is trained and experienced.

Please contact me so that we can have a chat asap. I have questions for you and I'm sure you have some for me. You can call me on my landline, preferably, or I am happy to call you back on a landline if you want to text me your number and the best time to call you.

Yours faithfully,

Hillary Kennedy
[phone numbers given]
fabstarkennedy@yahoo.com

[gralsfighter]

I have, perhaps, a delicate question and my intent is to understand, not necessarily to judge. L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of this church.... his works were bastardized and co-opted by what is now this Church of Scientology? Yes? Perhaps this is an overly-simplified question... Who/what are these beings that have stolen his work and morphed it into something that appears quite evil? Why haven't the supporters of L. Ron's work (Ron's Org?) launched a counter-rebellion? Why has this church been permitted to imprison people, brainwash them and intimidate them so? Why do the Ron's org people not fight back? What' the worst thing that can happen?

Many Scientologist and others fail to see that this not only a "Scientology Problem". You can see these cockroaches in christianity (Inqusition and falsifing the bible), by Osho or Falun Gong, freemasons and many others.
The more a Technology free people in a unbrainwashed state the more they become pressure.
David Icke is one example from many.
He gets so much pressure that that what he is telling must be the truth.
gralsfighter

[Hervé]

[...]

... then David Miscavige was to keep all the upper OT levels out of harms reach ... and keep the technology from getting into the hands of the enemies ... [...]

jim

Jim,

OSA (Co$'s Office of Special Affairs) couldn't possibly do a better job of getting Miscavige a whiter shade of white... why would LRH bother to name Pat and Annie Broeker as "Loyal Officers" and not Miscavige?

Here is a document published by William "Bill" Cooper as an addendum in one of his book, demonstrating that "they" know about the tech and past implants:


With respect to captures and enslavements... "they" know what they are doing and "they" are doing it on purpose.

"They" also know how to activate/trigger/restimulate past captures/enslavements/trainings/programmings to their benefits:



A COVENANT WITH DEATH
http://ufo.whipnet.org/xdocs/convenant/index7.html

Part 7 - <-- (http://ufo.whipnet.org/xdocs/convenant/index6.html) | --> (http://ufo.whipnet.org/xdocs/convenant/index8.html)


The following is from a letter or a document which was released by William Cooper without comment as to it's origin or author, although the writer of the letter or document seems to have been someone "in the know", and possibly someone involved in scientific research for the government:


https://qy9cnq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pQEMDR3VZ4Udk5ILpILWGexichY7gfPUAjNumAKc84i9EGd0CnIcpREmvbiK0Pl1nPU6U893M3aksr8GibM9qmb7WVuuwd66f/Implants-01.jpg?psid=1


Microwaves... again!


Stan Deyo mentions in one of his video how, along with others, he was trained to do his research on anti-gravity by absorbing everything that was knonw of physics at that time by flipping some 200 pages/seconds into his mind... for him/them to join the dots in doing the research... god knows what else they put into the minds of these researchers!


Did you read that document and catch that little phrase:

"It is here where billion-year-old psychological implants may be restimulated." ? *

On the other hand, the above document totally relates to Robert Duncan (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?56002-Must-Read-The-Matrix-Deciphered-by-Dr-Robert-Duncan)'s research and experiments... or why subsidize digital TV for everyone in the US.


* Incidentally, that short phrase was "disappeared" from the linked text (or Branton's annotated text of same) compared to the original document... or how to alter truth.

[johnf]

I have, perhaps, a delicate question and my intent is to understand, not necessarily to judge. L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of this church.... his works were bastardized and co-opted by what is now this Church of Scientology? Yes? Perhaps this is an overly-simplified question... Who/what are these beings that have stolen his work and morphed it into something that appears quite evil? Why haven't the supporters of L. Ron's work (Ron's Org?) launched a counter-rebellion? Why has this church been permitted to imprison people, brainwash them and intimidate them so? Why do the Ron's org people not fight back? What' the worst thing that can happen?

Many Scientologist and others fail to see that this not only a "Scientology Problem". You can see these cockroaches in christianity (Inqusition and falsifing the bible), by Osho or Falun Gong, freemasons and many others.
The more a Technology free people in a unbrainwashed state the more they become pressure.
David Icke is one example from many.
He gets so much pressure that that what he is telling must be the truth.
gralsfighter

This is a good point Grals. I am not sure we have ever gotten anything really good from counter rebellions, but more war, more rulers etc.
All of the movements listed in Grals post involved just plain folks trying to do something about there spiritual freedom.
It is a very powerfull force freedom, a double edged sword.

Dianetics and Scientology talked the subject of spirit from a very technological angle.
Presently the talk about archontic invasions, etc is using what may be a very accurate term for what keeps holding spirit back AI.

When you talk about "the" AI, it reacts! It fights back and tries to get people to deny it's existence. It is a parasite, and because of that will enure there are plenty of other hosts about before it kills you.

It was exposed in a very big way on this forum in the Horus Ra thread.
I am deliberately commiting a partial error here of oversimplifing a very long and complex disscusion.
But the work of Malanga exposes very closely what is probably the end game of the AI.

That is to submerge the soul,by making it take on more and more of this programming, to be become more and more like "them",until these entities can take over the bodies humans, the genetic engineering (further programming of the GE if you will), takes care of the biological side of the job.
Of course how far they will get, and have gotten in other places is an excellent question.

Another idea in that thread , that I find fascinating is the allegory of the original creator, and it's goal to experience death. So it created another being, and that being decided to cheat death, so it created the aliens to do the dying for it, and (like parent like child) they decided to create a whole physical universe which would evolve us, to do the dying for them. Until they could take us over and live forever I geuss.

Rather grusome scenario, and there is a danger of taking this all too literally.

Personally I like the way Allan Watts put it.Of course the music and images from the inception movie certainly help bring it home.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xCFoJ0aywc

Allan Watts dealt with a softer form of this technology of spiritual freedom, as do many others.

The enlightenment and the ego thread, is a very thorough exploration of some of these softer technologies.

The Ai does not like these either, and correct me if I am wrong, but I never saw anyone publicly leave the forum because of those type of discussions.However there have been some leave over these LRH discussions.

Alan's speech may not cause beings to shoot out of the universe, and end up floating out there looking down at the little speck of dust like the Ron's org, Hubbard stuff does, (jeez I hope I am wrong there, and probably am), but it can cetainly bring about gentle smiles of knowing, and even peals of laughter,and people can walk away with this higher awareness.

The same is probably true of the teachings that were turned into christianity, crusades etc, Islam, jihads etc.

For the sake of a sick joke I am tempted to mention people flying planes into buildings full of people too, however there is some confusion about the real involvement of Islam, (not to mention the role of the planes) in that particular instance!
However, the agenda carried by this AI probably had a lot to do with it.

So concerning the various groups that followed in the wake of the COS, I would have to say that the best course of action is going to be one of not only gentle insistence of the truth, that we are not our bodies, we are not our thoughts, and we are not the specialized definitions that have been used to describe what can look at those things.

Here on this forum we can gather from whatever studies we have done and compare notes, and as more people notice the truth
and dissolve the ai that they have taken into themselves, we will have tools to help them and ourselves move peacefully ahead and live in a much improved society.
I feel obligated to note also this certainly not the only place where this sort of thing is happening.

Dang that was verbose, but it has been bubbling up in me for a bit. And i neglected to get back to a rather freeing idea that is out there regarding the original goal of infinte beings experiencing death, and that is the conscious practice of letting the false self die on an ongoing basis. Die daily , then notice you are still walking around and all is well.

Peace and Free being

jf

[novus]

Bill,

Many thanks for this thread. This is the most intelligent, most literate, Scientology and related studies discussion, I have encountered on the internet. I like your open minded approach and the way you don't try to hog tie, or force the reader into a belief. You also leave room for the reader to cognate and contribute to the discussion.

I haven't done anything in Scientology since about 1985. My experiences with Scientology were positive. I completed the level of OT-3. It was a nice place to perch, and that's were I have been every since.

I do want to post some comments and questions on this thread, and will do so, once I assimilate the links and all. Some of the personalities you've mentioned on this thread and on the provided links, such as, Jim Humble, Peter Green, and others, I have known in the past.

I look forward to commenting soon.

[CdnSirian]

This is pretty overwhelming. The idea of being conscious almost becomes repulsive.

Buddha appears. The concept of Maitreya follows. Traditionally understood to be the re-incarnation of the individual who was the Buddha. Don't all the Buddhists want "him" to come back?

Like the Second Coming of Christ? Which many say is a consciousness not an individual? Or a Rapture meaning the death of everyone 'cept the unbelievers get raised up to Heaven?

And incarnating onto planet Earth is a spirit creating a viewpoint that didn't exist until the spirit needed one to get inserted here?

And all viewpoints are a viewpoint of Maitreya? "Siddhartha Gautama Buddha is a viewpoint of Metteyya" -Jiminii. Sorry but in all of Earth's documentation the Buddha came first. Although I do understand the holographic nature of this universe and the plasticity of linear time.

After reading this last page three times - I must retire to chop wood and carry water. Will catch up soon.

[Bill Ryan]

Bill,

Many thanks for this thread. This is the most intelligent, most literate, Scientology and related studies discussion, I have encountered on the internet. I like your open minded approach and the way you don't try to hog tie, or force the reader into a belief. You also leave room for the reader to cognate and contribute to the discussion.

I haven't done anything in Scientology since about 1985. My experiences with Scientology were positive. I completed the level of OT-3. It was a nice place to perch, and that's were I have been every since.

I do want to post some comments and questions on this thread, and will do so, once I assimilate the links and all. Some of the personalities you've mentioned on this thread and on the provided links, such as, Jim Humble, Peter Green, and others, I have known in the past.

I look forward to commenting soon.


Thank you -- and Welcome. :)

I think you may find yourself at home here at Avalon. The members are pretty articulate, experienced, and well-informed. Debate is usually intelligent and well-referenced. There's a sincere alliance in questing to understand whatever the truth is (in many areas).

There's also a high tolerance for different views and experiences (and some members have experienced some very weird things indeed!) -- as long as the views are sincerely expressed. Once or twice, members can get a little over-excited, but that's because they really care, and they're all very much united in that as well.

I know what you mean about OT 3 being a good place to 'perch', and watch the world from. One of my closest friends is an inactive scientologist whose last level was OT 3. He's in wonderful shape, and hasn't done (or needed to do) anything more in the subject for 20 years. It's sometimes when the Church levels of OT 5 and 7 are opened up that the real tangle can start.

[webyourstuff]

At Flag service org FSO i got so frustrated because no one wanted to do the game ... or do only what they have to ,,, like send letters out ,... suddenly the being in me ran all these seems like little gold balls in a circle around the head ... like bip bip bip bip bip ,.. and all the GI and people coming into the org stopped ,.. I thought oh my god ,.. I must have undone all of my postulates .... suddenly they were telling everyone ... this is an emergency .... we have to get letters out ... and they were pulling all the files from central files out giving them to everyone and everyone started to write letters ... I was practically laughing in hysteria inside me ,,, and thought "i guess this is one way to get them to write letters " .. then i put back in my postulates and the statistics went back up again ,,

but this does prove one thing we are creating it all ..
Jim

"This is an emergency" is a tool they used. It effectively got people working working working while bypassing the person's self determinism and creativity. In other words, turned people into slaves.

'Nough said.

[webyourstuff]

Do you remember what was said about the wrong vs right way to operate the chakras? I'd be grateful if you could just say a few words about it!

Me too. :-)

[novus]

Bill,

I have a question. Forgive me it's already been answered elsewhere?

As mentioned before, I completed Scientology OT-3. I am quite satisfied with the results. However, I have also made gains in the none Advanced Levels to. Most worthy of mention, was Scientology Ethics handling. Which is something done as a precursor (if needed) to actual Scientology auditing.

My question is, does Rons Org, or, the Free Zone, have something similar to Scientology Ethics handling?

[Bill Ryan]

Bill,

I have a question. Forgive me it's already been answered elsewhere?

As mentioned before, I completed Scientology OT-3. I am quite satisfied with the results. However, I have also made gains in the none Advanced Levels to. Most worthy of mention, was Scientology Ethics handling. Which is something done as a precursor (if needed) to actual Scientology auditing.

My question is, does Rons Org, or, the Free Zone, have something similar to Scientology Ethics handling?

The Free Zone (as opposed to Ron's Org) sometimes tends to be a little lax on Ethics -- still wary, to some degree, about of how the subject has been significantly abused in the Church in recent years.

In Ron's Org, Ethics is correctly judged as being a cornerstone. Mary Freeman, in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, has become famous for her Ethics Program (sometimes called the Integrity Program, or even simply "Mary's Ethics") which has been reported to have transformed many lives. (Mary is an 'old-timer' who knew LRH personally before she left the Church in the 80s.)

http://highintegrityliving.com

'Captain' Bill Robertson ('CBR') also stressed the correct application of Ethics. His "Applying Conditions in Life" seminar (which I attended in 1990, and later transcribed personally) is here:

http://projectavalon.net/Improving_Conditions_in_Life_CBR_seminar_1990.pdf

[webyourstuff]

------

A little more in answer to seko above:



One can also do sessions with a distant auditor over Skype. (The meter can be with either person.)
When solo auditing, unless one is very experienced or highly qualified, one does need guidance on what to audit (i.e. what question-and-answer processes to 'run') from someone who is qualified and experienced and who understands what you're wanting to address.



Does anyone know what the meter is responding to? Resistance, temperature, pulse rate, or something else more metaphysical?

Is the power source batteries?

Having spent some time in analog circuit design, I am curious.

There is measurable electrical energy in the vicinity of the being and/ or body. That's what is being read by the meter. The energy is the charge built up by some incident the person is not experiencing.

Example: Person fell off horse as child. Couldn't experience it fully, so built up charge. Later, when asked on a meter about horses, this charge is pulled out of the space around him, and impinges on the body. This causes the meter to read.
:llama:

[jiminii]

all of this was done in the future ... and we were sent to this time ...

OK. Thank you for the info. Glad our comm cycle is producing TA and cogs.

I read your original post. I have a limited reality on future track returnees. But I agree that LRH set up miscavage and the taken over church intentionally.
Best info I have is that LRH went to/is at Galactic Central to warn of implanter plans.
Are there others like you from the future to assist with your mission? It can't be just you.


this is sent to me by the OT 33 on course at ron's org ... verifying what I said,

it only allowed me to look better and I saw what happened and why he didn't pick David Miscavige ... he was heavily drugged and from out of body he became aware of David miscavige and gave him the instructions and all the rest to divert the church away from the enemy ... they found 12 needle marks in him ... so do you think he should trust those who did this to him?

it is a viewpoint someone can look at and check if this is right or not

jim

[jiminii]

all of this was done in the future ... and we were sent to this time ...

OK. Thank you for the info. Glad our comm cycle is producing TA and cogs.

I read your original post. I have a limited reality on future track returnees. But I agree that LRH set up miscavage and the taken over church intentionally.
Best info I have is that LRH went to/is at Galactic Central to warn of implanter plans.
Are there others like you from the future to assist with your mission? It can't be just you.


this is sent to me by the OT 33 on course at ron's org ... verifying what I said,

it only allowed me to look better and I saw what happened and why he didn't pick David Miscavige ... he was heavily drugged and from out of body he became aware of David miscavige and gave him the instructions and all the rest to divert the church away from the enemy ... they found 12 needle marks in him ... so do you think he should trust those who did this to him?

it is a viewpoint someone can look at and check if this is right or not

jim

and yes more have been sent ... I have found a natural clear on this website ... and we sorted it out and he is Native State ... this means he is the original state a spirit being is before he gets messed up in this universe .. means he came right out of the static like me and inelia

this is just more proof to me ...

of course you can go looking anywhere you like ...

but understand this ... the prophecy of Buddha ... said it would be Meitreya (in sanscript) or Metteyya (in pali) that will come 2500 years after Buddhs's death .., and no one gets ...

metteyya IS the spirit of Buddha

mettayya IS the spirit of LRH

Metteyya IS the spirit of me

we do not have the same personalities or the same timeline ... we are separate viewpoints of the same spirit

jim

[CdnSirian]

" we are separate viewpoints of the same spirit" Does that not apply to us all? Whatever you call It?

[novus]

I agree that every worthwhile spiritual betterment movement, has been infiltrated to weaken it.. Your example of Christianity being infiltrated is spot on. What is currently being passed off as, "Christianity" is NOT what it was originally. You have to follow something back to it's origin (before it was infiltrated) to know what it was all about. For this reason, I agree with Bill Ryan that, earlier Scientology books and materials might be more useful than the, "modern" ones?

[jiminii]

" we are separate viewpoints of the same spirit" Does that not apply to us all? Whatever you call It?

each person would have to find the spirit they are .... like Inelis is a viewpoint of gaia
but I think she also said she has other timelines
means she has other viewpoints created from the same spirit

so yes .. this is how I see it

jim

also I look at David Miscavige ... some say he acts like a spoiled child

what I see is he can't get the production he wants ,.. and tries to force it
this is also a problem of being newly made out of the static from the future .. we have no experience .. even though he has been trained from the future ... he doesn't get the stats I got by practicing how to use my spiritual abilities ,.. I could do it by intention and holding the intention and bouncing all the counter intention off my space ,, and the stats went exactly as I wrote it to LRH

but I also looked at this. if I would have stayed there maybe i could have changed it with all that infiltration ,.. but it is rough .. and they can knock out my anchor points ,.. by hitting on my poor hearing and other body outpoints ... (anchor points are the points a spirit sets up around him that puts his space out there to make something happen in the MEST matter energy space and time universe) .. which was really an outpoint .. wasn't it?... they can't tell anyone what I do ,. they can't validate me except by inviting me to the CMO office and more or less acknowledging me (CMO is commadore's messenger Org) ..and I think only LRH knew ... I don't think CMO knew ... they only relay the message .. at the same time the boss I work under is trying to get me out of the sea org because of my poor hearing .. rather than change my post (job) .. and the staff was on staff freeze .. no one could change posts ,... so it is almost an impossible situation .. for me. I could take it ,. but not with my Japanese wife up at INT (international Org) sending me a note that she (learned how to lie on the meter) ... and she hadn't been able to get through ONE course since she has been there because they have NO IDEA on how to handle a japanese .. that doesn't have future tense in the language and doesn't have prepositions .. but has postpositions .. the word that modifies comes after the word it modifies in japanese ,, and doesn't have adverbial or adjective phrases ,. so I had to get out to go get her before they ruin her saying "WE KNOW BEST " .. and they DON'T ...

so their own rules can also stop them

jim

[webyourstuff]

Personally my own intuitions, though quite less well formed by genius, study or experiment than the giants of the late 1800's, tend more toward the inclusion of some sort of aether, and toward a local, real view, than that supported by present day "accepted" physics. The trick, that I have in no way mastered yet, is explaining away the results of various Bell inequality and Hardy-Jordan experiments, which purport to demonstrate the essential validity of a non-real, non-local quantum mechanics (Bohr's Copenhagen Interpretation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_interpretation).)

I had an aha moment once which may or may not be related to this. I was watching a James Randi video. In case this name is not familiar to you, he's the guy who offers a million dollars to anyone who can actually demonstrate any sort of psychic phenomenon. He wants to prove it is all lies. Many have tried, none (to date) have succeeded.

Anyway, I was watching one of his videos, and I notice something. Randi controls the space! The psychic is NOT in normal universe space. He is in Randi's space. In Randi's space, psychic phenomenon doesn't work. Because he has so determined. To win this prize, one would have to figure out how to maintain their own space while working with him.

[webyourstuff]

also I look at David Miscavige ... some say he acts like a spoiled child

what I see is he can't get the production he wants ,.. and tries to force it
this is also a problem of being newly made out of the static from the future .. we have no experience .. even though he has been trained from the future ... he doesn't get the stats I got by practicing how to use my spiritual abilities ,.. I could do it by intention and holding the intention and bouncing all the counter intention off my space ,, and the stats went exactly as I wrote it to LRH

but I also looked at this. if I would have stayed there maybe i could have changed it with all that infiltration ,.. but it is rough .. and they can knock out my anchor points ,.. by hitting on my poor hearing and other body outpoints ... (anchor points are the points a spirit sets up around him that puts his space out there to make something happen in the MEST matter energy space and time universe) .. which was really an outpoint .. wasn't it?... they can't tell anyone what I do ,. they can't validate me except by inviting me to the CMO office and more or less acknowledging me (CMO is commadore's messenger Org) ..and I think only LRH knew ... I don't think CMO knew ... they only relay the message .. at the same time the boss I work under is trying to get me out of the sea org because of my poor hearing .. rather than change my post (job) .. and the staff was on staff freeze .. no one could change posts ,... so it is almost an impossible situation .. for me. I could take it ,. but not with my Japanese wife up at INT (international Org) sending me a note that she (learned how to lie on the meter) ... and she hadn't been able to get through ONE course since she has been there because they have NO IDEA on how to handle a japanese .. that doesn't have future tense in the language and doesn't have prepositions .. but has postpositions .. the word that modifies comes after the word it modifies in japanese ,, and doesn't have adverbial or adjective phrases ,. so I had to get out to go get her before they ruin her saying "WE KNOW BEST " .. and they DON'T ...

so their own rules can also stop them

jim

So... Jim... did you get your wife out???? Or did she chose to stay there?

[webyourstuff]

Now, if we accept that we have engrams from past lives, this leads to a further two possibilities: either:

(a) that we have a ‘soul’ which continues in this body from life to life, taking with it the results of actions performed in previous lives which may be called karma, including engrams, further adding to this karma by our actions in our current life, or
(b) that our engrams are passed to us genetically by our parents in cellular form in the zygote. Given what we now know about genetics, and cellular awareness, this is also very plausible. However, it means we will inherit engrams from both parents, and they will have inherited engrams from our 4 grandparents, who will have inherited engrams from our 8 great-grandparents and so on. Therefore, taking the average age for giving birth at 25, a new born baby now will inherit engrams from some 16 people in the last 100 years alone. We will also share engrams with thousands of our relatives- a good reason to avoid interbreeding!! Therefore either (i) our engram load is increasing continuously and has done so for thousands (millions?) of years, placing us in possession of millions of unresolved engrams, or (ii) engrams have a finite life, and tend to fade with the passage of time.


Love, bram

Both. You can audit engrams from the theta line (past lives) and you can audit engrams from the genetic line.

My understanding is auditing genetic engrams is less important unless the being is stuck in one. I think I ran one (maybe two) genetic engrams in all my auditing. You don't run ALL the theta-line engrams either. That would take forever. Just enough to stably move the being out of his case.

Basically, there is ONE engram (called basic-basic) that you need to get. You spoon off enough charge to view basic-basic. Then erase that, then you are done.

[Hervé]

Actually...

... there are 3 lines which can be audited:



the protoplasmic/biological line
the interface/mind/body intelligence/genetic entity line
the theta/spirit line

Of these three lines, the spirit/theta line is the one that is "boss," that is, it is the one that can handle the other two to align with itself in health or illness.



This is stated otherwise as "Consideration is the highest capability of life, taking rank over the mechanics of MEST: Matter, Energy, Space and Time."

[jiminii]

also I look at David Miscavige ... some say he acts like a spoiled child

what I see is he can't get the production he wants ,.. and tries to force it
this is also a problem of being newly made out of the static from the future .. we have no experience .. even though he has been trained from the future ... he doesn't get the stats I got by practicing how to use my spiritual abilities ,.. I could do it by intention and holding the intention and bouncing all the counter intention off my space ,, and the stats went exactly as I wrote it to LRH

but I also looked at this. if I would have stayed there maybe i could have changed it with all that infiltration ,.. but it is rough .. and they can knock out my anchor points ,.. by hitting on my poor hearing and other body outpoints ... (anchor points are the points a spirit sets up around him that puts his space out there to make something happen in the MEST matter energy space and time universe) .. which was really an outpoint .. wasn't it?... they can't tell anyone what I do ,. they can't validate me except by inviting me to the CMO office and more or less acknowledging me (CMO is commadore's messenger Org) ..and I think only LRH knew ... I don't think CMO knew ... they only relay the message .. at the same time the boss I work under is trying to get me out of the sea org because of my poor hearing .. rather than change my post (job) .. and the staff was on staff freeze .. no one could change posts ,... so it is almost an impossible situation .. for me. I could take it ,. but not with my Japanese wife up at INT (international Org) sending me a note that she (learned how to lie on the meter) ... and she hadn't been able to get through ONE course since she has been there because they have NO IDEA on how to handle a japanese .. that doesn't have future tense in the language and doesn't have prepositions .. but has postpositions .. the word that modifies comes after the word it modifies in japanese ,, and doesn't have adverbial or adjective phrases ,. so I had to get out to go get her before they ruin her saying "WE KNOW BEST " .. and they DON'T ...

so their own rules can also stop them

jim

So... Jim... did you get your wife out???? Or did she chose to stay there?

I found SOCO INT .. NOW IS CALLED ABLE .. SOCO is social coordination international ... changed name to ABLE
I got her transfered to SOCO INT ... and then this Sue Embeck OT 5 was trying to get her to go to open up an org in Japan ,. she had a japanese husband
she can't speak japanese and he can't speak english ... I tell her what I can do with STATS and she thinks I am nuts ... even if I prove it 4 times they will think you are nuts if you say it ... the Public Officer at SOCO was mad at me because when I transfered her it was on an agreement that we would be sent to do a mission in japan and she was getting his stats up and so he was constantly 3rd partying me to Sue Embeck (sue embeck told me) .. and my japanese wife was changed from SOCO INT to work with sue on her business before she goes to japan ... she comes and gets my wife and moves her to her house and doesn't let me see her ,... she just steals the wife ...

she thinks this is ok

jim

[jiminii]

also I look at David Miscavige ... some say he acts like a spoiled child

what I see is he can't get the production he wants ,.. and tries to force it
this is also a problem of being newly made out of the static from the future .. we have no experience .. even though he has been trained from the future ... he doesn't get the stats I got by practicing how to use my spiritual abilities ,.. I could do it by intention and holding the intention and bouncing all the counter intention off my space ,, and the stats went exactly as I wrote it to LRH

but I also looked at this. if I would have stayed there maybe i could have changed it with all that infiltration ,.. but it is rough .. and they can knock out my anchor points ,.. by hitting on my poor hearing and other body outpoints ... (anchor points are the points a spirit sets up around him that puts his space out there to make something happen in the MEST matter energy space and time universe) .. which was really an outpoint .. wasn't it?... they can't tell anyone what I do ,. they can't validate me except by inviting me to the CMO office and more or less acknowledging me (CMO is commadore's messenger Org) ..and I think only LRH knew ... I don't think CMO knew ... they only relay the message .. at the same time the boss I work under is trying to get me out of the sea org because of my poor hearing .. rather than change my post (job) .. and the staff was on staff freeze .. no one could change posts ,... so it is almost an impossible situation .. for me. I could take it ,. but not with my Japanese wife up at INT (international Org) sending me a note that she (learned how to lie on the meter) ... and she hadn't been able to get through ONE course since she has been there because they have NO IDEA on how to handle a japanese .. that doesn't have future tense in the language and doesn't have prepositions .. but has postpositions .. the word that modifies comes after the word it modifies in japanese ,, and doesn't have adverbial or adjective phrases ,. so I had to get out to go get her before they ruin her saying "WE KNOW BEST " .. and they DON'T ...

so their own rules can also stop them

jim

So... Jim... did you get your wife out???? Or did she chose to stay there?

I found SOCO INT .. NOW IS CALLED ABLE .. SOCO is social coordination international ... changed name to ABLE
I got her transfered to SOCO INT ... and then this Sue Embeck OT 5 was trying to get her to go to open up an org in Japan ,. she had a japanese husband
she can't speak japanese and he can't speak english ... I tell her what I can do with STATS and she thinks I am nuts ... even if I prove it 4 times they will think you are nuts if you say it ... the Public Officer at SOCO was mad at me because when I transfered her it was on an agreement that we would be sent to do a mission in japan and she was getting his stats up and so he was constantly 3rd partying me to Sue Embeck (sue embeck told me) .. and my japanese wife was changed from SOCO INT to work with sue on her business before she goes to japan ... she comes and gets my wife and moves her to her house and doesn't let me see her ,... she just steals the wife ...

she thinks this is ok

jim

sue embeck was deliberately auditing out the marriage and 3rd partying me to her ... to be able to steal her ... so we were for the first time getting in arguments constantly .. and i knew it was coming from sue .. but my wife would never tell me what sue was telling her.

they wanted people to join the ship project .. the OT ship that will open up OT 8 ... so I joined ... and got to FSO again ... and same thing happens .. someone will run me out because of the hearing problems

jim

[jiminii]

I am thinking I could get more results in my next life ... if I mock up wings in the womb of my mother .. then people will definitely listen to me ,.. they won't know where the wings came from ,.. and they would believe anything I say ..
hahahaha

there is only one problem with this ... someone might get jealous and shoot me out of the sky ...


jim

[johnf]

I am thinking I could get more results in my next life ... if I mock up wings in the womb of my mother .. then people will definitely listen to me ,.. they won't know where the wings came from ,.. and they would believe anything I say ..
hahahaha

there is only one problem with this ... someone might get jealous and shoot me out of the sky ...


jim

Oh, dude you're right about that, you don't wanna grow wings.
Even if they don't shoot you the message will get garbled.
Or you'll get dissected or something.
There's kind of a metaphor here for not appearing to be too different.
Look what happened to the son of god, lol.

[johnf]

I have a question concerning the works of L. Kin. (again with the L!)

Has anyone here studied these, or know anyone who has studied these
and gotten themselves or others through these levels?

http://www.freezoneearth.org/lkin/

[jiminii]

I have a question concerning the works of L. Kin. (again with the L!)

Has anyone here studied these, or know anyone who has studied these
and gotten themselves or others through these levels?

http://www.freezoneearth.org/lkin/

trey lotz was doing the L's on some PC's in Los Angeles
jim

[johnf]

I have a question concerning the works of L. Kin. (again with the L!)

Has anyone here studied these, or know anyone who has studied these
and gotten themselves or others through these levels?

http://www.freezoneearth.org/lkin/


trey lotz was doing the L's on some PC's in Los Angeles
jim

The L rundowns? Or using L.Kins books to get people through the upper levels?

jf

[jiminii]

I have a question concerning the works of L. Kin. (again with the L!)

Has anyone here studied these, or know anyone who has studied these
and gotten themselves or others through these levels?

http://www.freezoneearth.org/lkin/


trey lotz was doing the L's on some PC's in Los Angeles
jim

The L rundowns? Or using L.Kins books to get people through the upper levels?

jf

oh I see
jim

[gralsfighter]

These techniques ar in parts the same as Excalibur in Rons Org.
They are designed to solve the lack of OT 5 in the church.

L.Kin do today http://www.mindwalking.de/en/index.htm
Maybe his research is now advanced.

Doing the auditing from his book without a C/S is more than risky
gralsfighter

[gralsfighter]

hahahaha


LOL



there is only one problem with this ... someone might get jealous and shoot me out of the sky ...



There is maybe only one problem : you don't want to be there for trillions of years HAHAHA

[jiminii]

I didn't come here to die for the revolution, I came here to live it (as long as I can). It took me a while to understand that I don't have to be in the avant-garde to be able to accomplish valuable things.

After I located many of my other timelines ... and these millions of timelines we created to come back to this time created out of Theta (the static the spirit itself) I understood part of what we were doing ... but the problem was the time factor ... when all these timelines I became aware of I was looking from the viewpoint of being created at this point in time .... but the picture was still not clear yet ... until I listened to alex collier september 2012 .. on internet radio and he said this time period we are in now has already happened ,,. and we are redoing it. this opened the door for me .. I saw everything .. we are here in this time to align more entheta (enturbulated thought) and return it back to theta which goes back to the collective .. and by doing so more entities will turn to the light .... now ... so many people are worried about this and that and how it will all go ... but I will give you a viewpoint I had when I learned about myself being created right out of source and sent here.... there is no memory system that can record pictures 25 a second ... this means there is nothing that can trap me to this planet ... the people being trapped are those who still have an automatic recording system ... this part of a spirit is the only part that the spirit carries from lifetime to lifetime ... it is the only part they can use to trigger anyone back into the implant stations to keep you prisoner on this planet ... what they do is attach some kind of beam to connect to this memory that is recorded in some king of physical universe MEST (matter energy space and time) .. and they use all kinds of tricks to trick you into the implant station ,.. like pull this MIND of anyone's into the implant station and makes the spirit think it is loosing it's mind and it follows this MIND into the implant station and they will KNOCK OUT the spirit and flood him full of garbage ... but they can only do this if we have an automatic recording system
if we are from the future which I think a lot are on this website ... we don't have this MIND ... so we can not be trapped between lifetimes again ... we are only here to help others ... and we have another body we are managing in the future ... these are our guides and they will make sure we are not trapped here ..

so this is a game ... the stakes are helping all of those we can to return to the light ... we are doing that ... so please keep it fun like a game .. and we will win ... make it serious and the game is much harder to play

jim

PS. the plans for this planet will be to make a base here where we can train and go out on missions and help all the other entities in the Galaxies to turn over to light ... this IS the game and you will say "why didn't they tell you this before we were sent here? ... well that is part of coming here .. to operate on this planet you will lose your memories when you come here .. with the hope that they will return to you in the future.

[johnf]

These techniques ar in parts the same as Excalibur in Rons Org.
They are designed to solve the lack of OT 5 in the church.

L.Kin do today http://www.mindwalking.de/en/index.htm
Maybe his research is now advanced.

Doing the auditing from his book without a C/S is more than risky
gralsfighter

Thanks, Gralsfighter , I fugured getting a competent cs, as well as co auditor would be the big task.
The statement about lack of OT 5 is confusing, as I know that as audited NOTS, and as I understand it Excalibur is the best answer to that whole shebang.
Actually I just reread this and you do mention excal in yer answer so, just thank you.
jf

[webyourstuff]

LRH was put pressure on to leave out past lives from the Dianetics data and procedure as being "too far out." His only regret about the book.

It is still "too far out" for a large portion of the population as reflected by the debates happening on this forum with the threads dealing with re-incarnation.

Ah, thanks for this. This makes a lot of sense because reading the book it is clear that he was still expecting Dianetics to be accepted at some point by the mainstream 'scientific' establishment. However, I don't see how he could have expected to maintain the integrity of the theory without going back into past lives. Seems like a pretty big compromise to make- after all, the truth is the truth is the truth.....[/QUOTE]

I remember seeing somewhere (sorry, don't remember where) Hubbard saying (well after Dianetics was written) that he had noticed that when a person was allowed to take up past lives in session, they did much better than people who had been denied that right (believing at the time that the past life material were fake memories).

[webyourstuff]

Nope. The book specifically states that the timeline begins at conception, and extends to the present moment.

Love, bram

My question is... which is the conception that the reference is made to?

The incarnate one or the birth of the soul?

In ancient teachings is it said that the soul is conceived in the heart of the stars and starts its journey from there to its own evolution. Is it possible that LRH was implying that?

No idea...

Stavros

I didn't look back. But I presume Bram was talking about the Dianetics book. In that book, conception specifically refers to the meeting of the sperm and the egg.

[webyourstuff]

This all resonates strongly in me and I want to dig deeper into it.
When I started to write down my life a few years ago, I got a huge boost from it, and literally made a jump in creativity and joy.
How much more must that be the case if one goes into more detail.

I am reading the book Self Analysis from Ron now as a PDF and it speaks of a disc one should use. Anyone has an idea how this disc looks like so I can reproduce it?

Apart from that the technique reminds me much of Castaneda's 'recapitulation' (Acitive Side of Infinity, Pg.142):

Someone else can give you a better answer. I don't have one, and am going by memory.

It looks like a notched wheel. Paper or cardboard. And a small wheel attached to it. Phrases are written on the small wheel. As you spin the wheel around, the phrase shows up in a window cut into the large wheel. The large wheel has words written on the notches.

You read down the Self Analysis book. For every line, you take a word and a phase from the wheel, and consider those things in relation to the line in the book.

Not the full answer you need. I hope someone comes up with a better description.
written on it. There is a list of those words in the book somewhere, probably in the appendix in the back.

[wegge]

Jim is more interested than he is interesting

[Hervé]

I am reading the book Self Analysis from Ron now as a PDF and it speaks of a disc one should use. Anyone has an idea how this disc looks like so I can reproduce it?

[...]

Someone else can give you a better answer. I don't have one, and am going by memory.

[...]

Hi webyourstuff,

Thank you for helping with answering questions.

It would probably help you and save you some time to read the thread a few pages ahead to see if the answer has already been provided...

... in this case:



[...]

I am reading the book Self Analysis from Ron now as a PDF and it speaks of a disc one should use. Anyone has an idea how this disc looks like so I can reproduce it?

[...]

See this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52786-MATRIX-REVEALED-Analysis-Solutions&p=627421&viewfull=1#post627421) <--- (click)

Or here:

http://projectavalon.net/Self_Analysis.pdf

In the case of the PDF above, the direction on how to proceed without a disk is given on page 47 (book pagination), i.e. page 43 of the PDF, in the section "Important: How to use the disk."

[Sidney]

I have only had a short look at the Self Analysis book. Looks interesting and beneficial. I am so backed up on reading/viewing vids etc. its not even funny. But IMO, if they taught this stuff at an early age, no one would need anti depressant medication.

[webyourstuff]

So... Jim... did you get your wife out???? Or did she chose to stay there?

I found SOCO INT .. NOW IS CALLED ABLE .. SOCO is social coordination international ... changed name to ABLE
I got her transfered to SOCO INT ... and then this Sue Embeck OT 5 was trying to get her to go to open up an org in Japan ,. she had a japanese husband
she can't speak japanese and he can't speak english ... I tell her what I can do with STATS and she thinks I am nuts ... even if I prove it 4 times they will think you are nuts if you say it ... the Public Officer at SOCO was mad at me because when I transfered her it was on an agreement that we would be sent to do a mission in japan and she was getting his stats up and so he was constantly 3rd partying me to Sue Embeck (sue embeck told me) .. and my japanese wife was changed from SOCO INT to work with sue on her business before she goes to japan ... she comes and gets my wife and moves her to her house and doesn't let me see her ,... she just steals the wife ...

she thinks this is ok

jim

Too f---ing weird! But then, I had long notice there was no respect for the 2D.. (or friends, family, hobbies, talents, staff member property or anything but stats for that matter). Well - "life is in you today and you make your tomorrow"! My best to you!

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I am thinking I could get more results in my next life ... if I mock up wings in the womb of my mother .. then people will definitely listen to me ,.. they won't know where the wings came from ,.. and they would believe anything I say ..
hahahaha

there is only one problem with this ... someone might get jealous and shoot me out of the sky ...


jim

Hahahaha! I like that :) I, too think about next life, and how I would get it off on a better foot.

[webyourstuff]

Bill- Many many thanks for starting this thread. This is all stuff I have needed to open up on for years. You succeeded in bringing the subject into the open on a secular website. And also thanks to all the various contributors. I feel like I am finally home.

[jiminii]

This all resonates strongly in me and I want to dig deeper into it.
When I started to write down my life a few years ago, I got a huge boost from it, and literally made a jump in creativity and joy.
How much more must that be the case if one goes into more detail.

I am reading the book Self Analysis from Ron now as a PDF and it speaks of a disc one should use. Anyone has an idea how this disc looks like so I can reproduce it?

Apart from that the technique reminds me much of Castaneda's 'recapitulation' (Acitive Side of Infinity, Pg.142):

Someone else can give you a better answer. I don't have one, and am going by memory.

It looks like a notched wheel. Paper or cardboard. And a small wheel attached to it. Phrases are written on the small wheel. As you spin the wheel around, the phrase shows up in a window cut into the large wheel. The large wheel has words written on the notches.

You read down the Self Analysis book. For every line, you take a word and a phase from the wheel, and consider those things in relation to the line in the book.

Not the full answer you need. I hope someone comes up with a better description.
written on it. There is a list of those words in the book somewhere, probably in the appendix in the back.

it would be like recall a time when you were happy ... what color did you get in that recall? .. then you might change it to smell .. or touch or lighting ... just changing the recall to get more perceptions of the incident so you can get better at recalling your past memories

jim

[jiminii]

the way I see it is like this ... after learning about my other timelines ... and the millions we sent back to align this part of the game ... it really isn't so necessary to get everyone enlightened ... the mistake we made was in the design ... this mind that records 25 pictures a second and doesn't take responsibility for what happens when the person is hurt and records all the data as one big huge mess with hypnotic commands from just the words people will say when they are unconscious ... so by sending new spirits back with this mind removed .. we go back to our basic knowingness ... we didn't need that mind ... that mind has caused hell for the longest period of time than anything ever created before .. we can do very well on the spirits ability to just KNOW ... doesn't need a mind ... that is full of booby traps he carries from lifetime to lifetime ...

and it worked ... maybe no one sees it yet .. but I can say from what I am getting from my future timeline is this ... It worked ... so doesn't matter what people think about any alien take over .. they are also using this same mind as everyone and every other alien is through out this universe we are in ... and they all want the same as us .. they want to be free from this hell too ...so it became a conquest for this planet ... but truth is ... the millions that were sent back do not have a time track of more than 80 trillions of years of endless pain ... so LRH said .. there never was an OT (operating thetan) there were only Key'd out OT's ... means they had a release from the electrical charge that caused them not to be OT's .. the Ot's are the beings capable of creating a universe like this ... but now we have true OT's that were and are being sent back from the future created NEW ... and they are here like all baby OTs ... they are newly made OT's (operating thetans) with no experience ...

so you might find you are one of them ... but if you are not ... it doesn't mean you will not eventually be one ... that would be a mistake ... not allowing everyone to start new with all the pain removed ... but this time ... a more educated spirit

yes ... this is why when trey asked the question "who is holding your aberrations in place" ... will find all the other timelines I have .. so the being I am .. has aberrations .,. but they come from my other timelines and also what I have to confront on this planet and around this planet .and my timelines in the future are auditing out the aberrations of my other timelines so eventually all of me will be .. but the purity of beingness .. "the light" .. that is here ... doesn't necessarily have to be ONLY coming from Scientology ,,, it is coming from ALL the millions of spirits .. that were sent back .. whatever their think is ... they WILL align this planet and we WILL BE FREE AGAIN ... and happy little spirits ...

to all a good future

jim

[fourty-two]

Hi Jim
Thanks for all you do.
In post 337 there is a line that states.. the mistake we made was in the design………and records all the data as one big huge mess with hypnotic commands from just the words people will say when they are unconscious
Other people saying words while we are unconscious?
Or we say words while we are unconscious?
Could you please clarify this a bit more

[johnf]

Jimini's presence here has put my attention on something.
That feels kinda like this. I saw this on Ulli's here and now thread.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg

But I am a guy so I want to talk about the nail!




so you might find you are one of them ... but if you are not ... it doesn't mean you will not eventually be one ... that would be a mistake ... not allowing everyone to start new with all the pain removed ... but this time ... a more educated spirit



but the purity of beingness .. "the light" .. that is here ... doesn't necessarily have to be ONLY coming from Scientology ,,, it is coming from ALL the millions of spirits .. that were sent back .. whatever their think is ... they WILL align this planet and we WILL BE FREE AGAIN ... and happy little spirits ...

to all a good future

jim

Thank you for that last post Jim. I read it last night, forgot about it then reread it a short time ago.

Responding to the first excerpt I posted above.

I am one of those beings as well, I attested to the state of Natural clear in 1984.This was in the freezone.

I have repeatedly had the conviction that I am from the future.

I had extremely strong reactions to reading where Hubbard stated he has more than one body on the planet.

There is a truth there somewhere that applies to me as well. These particular experiences have what I have learned to call maximum strangeness (not sure who I just plagurized).

I have talked to Jimini via PM and we have compared notes, and he told me the question that Trey asked him in a session,and there was a definite release that occured there.

Jim put that question in the above post.


Maybe someday I can get on a meter again and trace some things down concerning that situation.

When I think about that prospect I see visions of me piling dollars into a couple of wheel barrows in order to afford the seemingly endless sessions one gets into when one gets involved in this activity of processing.

I am an addictive personality, and processing has been one way I have acted that tendency out.

When Inelia was here and perhaps later when I watched snippets of her vids online there was something going on there
concerning her convictions that she has recently come into being and is on assignment, that I tended to believe, and that I feel I have something in common with.

There is another person whose site I ran into, who makes similar statements about himself, he has run into scientology (the church variety), and he never saw fit to do any of it.

I think he has this type of condition, however I am not sure he has the same one Jim and I have. He says that he is newly created out of basic consciousness, and that such beings can easily have experiences of unified consciousness.

Theory:
To create a universe properly,with responsibility, it takes prediction,system redundancy, the establishment of robust security protocols.This redundacy I think includes the principle that, diversity is proportional to stability.

I have done a lot of studies in Zoology and have repeatedly been awed at the diversity that has been woven into this one little universe.

The best efforts coming from science , as I understand/misunderstand it, claim that this is a multiverse.
Perhaps it is a multiverses.

From A Course in Miracles, I really like the idea that the constant action of love is to extend itself.(paraphrased)
I think it marries quite well with my cildhood comtemplations on the idea of infinity(I have added to that original question and answer session with myself years ago,it has been a long session).
How can something that is infinite be contained by any thing, and be both constantly expanding, and complete at the same time?
Well as a friend of mine has repeatedly said, John you like to hurt your mind don't you?

I think there has been a massive effort down the line in this multiverses to compress all thoughts that might escape it into one limited system of thought.

That effort entered the inception of the organization that formed around Hubbard (IMO).
Considering the planet all this happened on, the fact that everyone who came together to make that happen had bodies
that came from the earth and the dust that formed it perhaps that invasion was required for them to be here.

All invasions happen from within, Well all I really know is mine certainly did.
The invasion that occured in the united states certainly did, I think most of us might agree with that sad fact.

So, crap I wish I had the gift of communicating large ideas with few words, but this is a large idea that has come from millions of minds besides mine.

All that to set up my treatment of the second excerpt from Jiminis post.
So perhaps anyone who is here now has some sort of connection with the timeline in the future that has cleared up this
installation of fixed memory loops, and recycled identities.
I allways found it so irritating when scientologists tried to claim that tthis planet hasn't blown it self up only because of what Hubbard did.

I don't consider myself a scientologist, freezoner, or buddhist, egyptologist, or non-dualist but I have found some thread of freedom in all of these things, and that is the short list.

No Being ever came into being just to follow someone elses Ology, Anity, or Ism.

To do so is to implant yourself, to move on is to clear the implant.

It was said to me by the guy that encouraged me to do the communications course in northern california, that the last thing you have to run out at the end of the bridge is your processing intself.
Bill Robertson said that same thing in a breifing I read on the net several years ago.
How will they, or in the sense of Jimini's story, how did they run out the egotism and specialness that Hubbard and
company seemed to be caught up in.

What process creates the cognition that there are no special beings, that we is just all me's.
This question was inspired in me by Dan Millmans one original thought that he talks about in his books.
There are no special moments. This thought supposedly came out of an assignment that his teacher gave him to have an original thought, and I find it cuts deep through who I am, and allows me to take all this with a pillar of salt.

I am now, and allways have been, just another me, just like anyone reading this ,please have compassion with me if you see anything else in this post.

So, anyone else with a nail?

jf

[novus]

Hi Jim
Thanks for all you do.
In post 337 there is a line that states.. the mistake we made was in the design………and records all the data as one big huge mess with hypnotic commands from just the words people will say when they are unconscious
Other people saying words while we are unconscious?
Or we say words while we are unconscious?
Could you please clarify this a bit more

Words said during times of unconsciousness are very important. They do act like hypnotic commands.

Ever notice when someone administers pain or unconsciousness to another, they are under some compulsion to give command phrases?

EXAMPLE: Parent slaps, or spanks, a child. The parent will always give a command phrase while slapping or spanking the child. "stop doing that", "act right, behave yourself", "you are stupid", etc.

EXAMPLE: When the police beat another with night sticks, you see them giving command phrases while beating someone. "stop moving", "be still", "take that", ect.

EXAMPLE: Two guys get into a fist fight. While delivering blows, each is obliged to give commands, "die mother fu#ker", "I will break your neck", "I will fu#k you up", ect.

So, you see language is associated with pain and unconsciousness?

What is important is, these people in the examples given, are dramatizing, or, acting out, what was done to them millions of years ago, and has been passed down generation, after generation, after generation, after......

Insanity is contagious!

If you were to audit these individuals, what you will find is, they were given electronic mind control implants, through pain and unconsciousness in the remote past. Every time the implanter touched your head with an electrode, a command or instruction was given to you.

So you see, the implanter, the guy in the white smock, electrically shocking you into unconsciousness and giving you verbal command phrases millions of years ago is what's behind the parent slapping or spanking the child while giving the child command phrases in today's world.

[Kindling]

Wow, John, amazing post. So much to consider and think about there I don't even know where to begin! Thanks!

[jiminii]

Hi Jim
Thanks for all you do.
In post 337 there is a line that states.. the mistake we made was in the design………and records all the data as one big huge mess with hypnotic commands from just the words people will say when they are unconscious
Other people saying words while we are unconscious?
Or we say words while we are unconscious?
Could you please clarify this a bit more

yes other people saying words while we are unconscious .. plus anything in the environment that is going on

jim

[jiminii]

well got one more for you ... i had a cognition about all these whistle blowers popping up ,... and I got this idea ... the cabal is doing this intentionally ... they want out of this game ... this means the theta level got high enough that they are turning toward survival not toward succumb ... I think they will keep doing it to undo what they got themselves into ... so they can change over more easily ... leaving those 2 and a half percent of the world that is causing all of it .. (too insane to handle yet) but as the theta level keeps going up exponentially now ... there will be so much theta ... that even they might be able to somehow get out of their own insanity and want to change too ... so 2 and a half percent messing up 20 percent ... to keep the 80 percent down ... as the 20 percent come out of it .. then that percentage shrinks ... until the elite have no followers at all ...

yes .. I think it is subconsciously or consciously going that way

anyone else got this idea too?

jim

[johnf]

well got one more for you ... i had a cognition about all these whistle blowers popping up ,... and I got this idea ... the cabal is doing this intentionally ... they want out of this game ... this means the theta level got high enough that they are turning toward survival not toward succumb ... I think they will keep doing it to undo what they got themselves into ... so they can change over more easily ... leaving those 2 and a half percent of the world that is causing all of it .. (too insane to handle yet) but as the theta level keeps going up exponentially now ... there will be so much theta ... that even they might be able to somehow get out of their own insanity and want to change too ... so 2 and a half percent messing up 20 percent ... to keep the 80 percent down ... as the 20 percent come out of it .. then that percentage shrinks ... until the elite have no followers at all ...

yes .. I think it is subconsciously or consciously going that way

anyone else got this idea too?

jim

I have thought this sort of thing before, then never saw it manifest.
Doesn't mean things haven't been headed there for a while though.
Thanks for the invitation to go back to those thoughts.
I have a tendendency to overdue things.
I sensed from a very young age that something was wrong with the world, my family, and me.
I am not unique there at all, but your revelations about the natural clear state shed some light on why I felt the way I did in my particular case.
But I have this paranoia, and tendency to try to predict nasty stuff so I am prepared, and that can get out of hand.
I also have a tendency to see through the veils of negativity, catastrophe, and manipulation to what is beyond them.
Not only can we straighten out all the messes we have co-created over the eons, it is our our nature to do so.

I forget where I read it , but it was by Hubbard and he said that a being perpetrating harm on others was still basically good.
That is why through the overt motivator sequence,(it is out there, google it) he usually makes himself get brought to justice one way or the other.
The idea that the criminal returns to the scene of the crime, newly released prisoners writing the hold up note on the back of their parole check when they rob a bank are examples of this idea.
My favorite example is Shakespeares, the lady protests too much methinks.

Let us contribute to that motion, of these people not wanting to travel this nasty path anymore with our collective intent, and make it so!

Why not?

Jf

[novus]

well got one more for you ... i had a cognition about all these whistle blowers popping up ,... and I got this idea ... the cabal is doing this intentionally ... they want out of this game ... this means the theta level got high enough that they are turning toward survival not toward succumb ... I think they will keep doing it to undo what they got themselves into ... so they can change over more easily ... leaving those 2 and a half percent of the world that is causing all of it .. (too insane to handle yet) but as the theta level keeps going up exponentially now ... there will be so much theta ... that even they might be able to somehow get out of their own insanity and want to change too ... so 2 and a half percent messing up 20 percent ... to keep the 80 percent down ... as the 20 percent come out of it .. then that percentage shrinks ... until the elite have no followers at all ...

yes .. I think it is subconsciously or consciously going that way

anyone else got this idea too?

jim


I forget where I read it , but it was by Hubbard and he said that a being perpetrating harm on others was still basically good.
That is why through the overt motivator sequence,(it is out there, google it) he usually makes himself get brought to justice one way or the other.
The idea that the criminal returns to the scene of the crime, newly released prisoners writing the hold up note on the back of their parole check when they rob a bank are examples of this idea.
My favorite example is Shakespeares, the lady protests too much methinks.

Let us contribute to that motion, of these people not wanting to travel this nasty path anymore with our collective intent, and make it so!

Why not?

Jf

Yes, I've read it to, where LRH said that, but can't remember where?

"Man is basically good. When found to be evil, he seeks to restrain or limit himself. The restraints are self imposed". It's not by accident we see many who never live to their full potential in life.

[sigma6]

Thanks Bill, that was the best "nutshell" on Scientology I have ever heard, from someone I trust. I knew it was, what I called "an applied psychology" and never a "religion" but I never had it explained that way before. I also didn't know anything about the more subtle "quantum" aspects, very much like est, silva, etc (too bad people forget that we all have latent psychic abilities, mind you, the key word is "latent") So this was a refreshing insight. The bit about the guy doing lotto numbers in advance also resonated. I remember reading an article by Kreskin who proposed the same thing was possible and explained a simple technique... which I even tried once and got 3 numbers right on my first try (but got the order wrong... ;o ) I got so self conscious about it, I never followed it up (it was like I didn't want to "ruin" my "cool experience" (lol)) A lot of people forget that Freud and Jung and many others were quite aware and talked about psychic phenomena as a matter of fact. Obviously Freud was "reigned in" (apparently due mostly because of financial reasons... the rest is history...)

I can now understand why there are people on both sides of the issue. That makes a hell of a lot more sense than having to watch Tom Cruise lather about it (lol)... kudos.

[novus]

Things which happen to us in the past, we have a tenancy to dramatize unconsciously in the present.

Here is an example.....I am sure we've all seen Hollywood movies where one person points a gun at another and commands one to "freeze" while pointing a gun at him, and the other mindlessly obeys and remains motionless ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/JIMBO66664/funny-picture-1198824017_zps7da7e898.jpg

As children, many of us remember play acting this same script where we point a gun at another and tell them to, "freeze".

I think I have found the basic, fundamental, time and place from which all this originated.

While receiving Scientology auditing, I encountered an over crowded planet in a different star system several million years ago that used freezing as a way of immobilizing, storing, and transporting, persons against their will. It would go something like this,......a team of 3 or 4 police persons would be used to capture and transport a criminal. Once the criminal was spotted, the one with the freeze gun aimed at him would fire weapon once the team leader gave the order to freeze him.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/JIMBO66664/brfrgnph_zpsdf86b3d9.gif



The gun apparatus that was used reminded me of the old flame thrower type used in WW2

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/JIMBO66664/flamethrower-thumb_zpsee871526.jpg

Later when I audited others, they described similar incidences of freezing's to mine. So, I assume this incident was pretty wide spread?

I also believe that's how many of us arrived here on earth,.... in a frozen condition. I know I did!

NOTE: None of this can be proven objectively. So, if you have no reality on what I have posted here, or if it seems far fetched, just write it off as science fiction.

[wegge]

Have you heard of Idenics, and if so, what do you think about it?

[Bill Ryan]

Have you heard of Idenics, and if so, what do you think about it?

Hi there, and thanks for the question!

Yes, I've heard of it, but I don't know a great deal. As best I know, it's based on original early 1950s LRH work on what he called 'Creative Processing'.

For those readers who don't know a lot about the subject, which is very interesting: 'Creative Processing' covers a whole array of similar-in-concept processes which were devised by LRH as a way of expanding ability. For some people, it really worked like a rocket-ride. But for others, it didn't work nearly so well, and so LRH set out to discover why there was such a variation in experience.

From that research, came the 'Bridge' (basically) -- which is a carefully designed series of gradated steps designed to work 100% for everyone, with no exceptions. It tackled and addressed all the introductory set-up steps which LRH discovered were necessary for everyone to be able to progress with no stops, whatever their basic level of ability, experience, or whatever life incidents may have hit them.

This is important to understand, because LRH's intention was for any process he developed to work for everyone. If it did not, for any reason, he would always discard it and go back to his research.

Some of the offshoots of scientology (like Idenics, Dianasis, Avatar, Knowledgism, and quite a bit else) were based on what LRH had discarded. Of course, there was value in all of it. But the thing to beware of is the workability -- or not.

Those people, all very well-intended, who picked up the discarded processes and techniques and then tried to form a methodology on it, may have found that it worked brilliantly on THEM (hence their enthusiasm) -- but may not work so well on everyone else. And they probably would NOT have the in-depth training or resources to fix anything that went wrong -- which is what the entire Bridge is for.

[wegge]

http://www.freezoneplanet.org/1a.html

here is a write up from the co-founder of idenics, for those who are interested, about the research line involved in Idenics and the general idea behind it. It was finally developed in 1986 by John Galusha, Hubbard´s top research auditor in the 1950s.

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Of interest to anyone who's read or knows of Walter Bowart's classic Operation Mind Control (download here (http://projectavalon.net/Operation_Mind_Control_Walter_Bowart.pdf)):

Bowart also wrote a synopsis for a never-published follow-up book called The Invisible Third World War (download here (http://projectavalon.net/The_Invisible_Third_World_War.pdf)).

Here's an interesting extract, from page 24:




During the very early days of MKULTRA, a formal Naval officer, L. Ron Hubbard, - aware of what the Navy was covertly doing - researched the workings of the human mind. Refusing to submit to government demands that he join the mind control psychiatrists, this man published a book called "Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health".

The book proclaimed mental liberty and integrity as the birthright of humanity. When the book became a bestseller, thousands began using the techniques Hubbard discovered, testifying to "increasing mental liberty". Some of the techniques Hubbard described for the benefit of people were secretly being used by the government in an attempt to enslave. Other of the techniques Hubbard described were actually antidotes to the MKULTRA mind control methods.

The government began a vicious smear campaign against Hubbard. It was run by the CIA's mind control section. The young author had inadvertently blown the whistle on the best kept secret of the Cold War, MKULTRA. And, perhaps the young author had tipped the cryptocracy's hand on their whole IW gameplan.

Hubbard's office was ransacked and a manuscript was stolen which contained information which paralleled that which we now know as psychotronics. Ironically that manuscript carried the same title as the later manuscript by Lt. Col. Tom Bearden. Both had the name EXCALIBUR. Hubbard and his colleagues were physically attacked, and the author narrowly escaped a kidnapping attempt. A black propaganda campaign was waged against all those who subscribed to the idea of "Dianetics" for nearly 30 years.

[the_real_dave-id]

Hey Bill, I'm getting a "404 File Not Found" message when trying to access the synopsis for The Invisible Third World War. Is it me or is there a problem?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Midnight Rambler]

Hey Bill, I'm getting a "404 File Not Found" message when trying to access the synopsis for The Invisible Third World War. Is it me or is there a problem?

Thanks in advance for any help.

I had the same problem. I did a search and found this link. http://projectcamelot.org/The_Invisible_Third_World_War.pdf

[Bill Ryan]

Hey Bill, I'm getting a "404 File Not Found" message when trying to access the synopsis for The Invisible Third World War. Is it me or is there a problem?


Mea culpa. Link fixed now. :)

http://projectavalon.net/The_Invisible_Third_World_War.pdf

[kanishk]

In the book called 'History Of Tegack' some ones answer to the question,

Q. What about the book Excalibur revisited? Written by Geoff Filbert.
A. This book has the entire tech from the beginning of the bridge till OT 16 written out. Make sure you do not read beyond your case level as it can key in. If everything goes wrong, the tech is still available to anyone having this book.

Who is Geoff Filbert? Why he wrote this book?

He seems to be like he did not like LRH, may be that is because he was thrown out of church many times by LRH. Accuses LRH in his book of some things in some kind of way. And on some Scientology forums I found that people talk about Geoff Filbert that he never acknowledged LRH for his contribution to the world. And that Geoff Filbert himself said later that he was very childish at that time when he wrote that book and is very naive.

This book is available in ‘Complete Library of L Ron Hubbard texts from Free Zone Scientology’ archive shared on torrent. And contains OT material in it. There are many books, transcribed lectures, Policy letters and bulletins in this archive. But how can we make sure that we do not pick something that is above our case level? I believe that all the books available in books folder can be read by anyone and has little to worry about ‘key in’.

[Bill Ryan]

Q. What about the book Excalibur revisited? Written by Geoff Filbert.
A. This book has the entire tech from the beginning of the bridge till OT 16 written out. Make sure you do not read beyond your case level as it can key in. If everything goes wrong, the tech is still available to anyone having this book.

Who is Geoff Filbert? Why he wrote this book?



Hi, Kanishk --

I've never read Geoff Filbert's book, but someone I knew and greatly respected (Allen Wright, who was personally trained by Bill Robertson), told me that some of Filbert's adaptations of 'Lower Bridge' processes were inspired and very workable. On the other hand, Allen also said that Filbert's versions of the 'OT' levels (the so-called 'Upper Bridge') should be totally disregarded.

Yes, as best I know, Filbert had his quarrels with either LRH or the Church (or maybe both), and left back in the 1970s. He was a well-trained auditor, as I understand. I believe (but do not know for sure) that he is still around.

[Billy]

Things which happen to us in the past, we have a tenancy to dramatize unconsciously in the present.

Here is an example.....I am sure we've all seen Hollywood movies where one person points a gun at another and commands one to "freeze" while pointing a gun at him, and the other mindlessly obeys and remains motionless ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/JIMBO66664/funny-picture-1198824017_zps7da7e898.jpg

As children, many of us remember play acting this same script where we point a gun at another and tell them to, "freeze".

I think I have found the basic, fundamental, time and place from which all this originated.


Later when I audited others, they described similar incidences of freezing's to mine. So, I assume this incident was pretty wide spread?

I also believe that's how many of us arrived here on earth,.... in a frozen condition. I know I did!

So, if you have no reality on what I have posted here, or if it seems far fetched, just write it off as science fiction.

Not science fiction my friend. Have you heard of a healing method named "Somatics" The creator Peter A, Levine, His theory is that when someone experiences Trauma it is possible for the emotion experience to be frozen within the person. His healing method Melts the frozen trauma. He has a few books, One is Waking the Tiger, My good friend is going through this healing method. After 30yrs of struggling she at last has found a method that is working. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=waking+the+tiger+peter+levine+pdf&oq=Walking+the+Tiger+Peter+&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l3.44088j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Anyways your post reminded me, So thought i would share.

Peace

[Bill Ryan]

Things which happen to us in the past, we have a tenancy to dramatize unconsciously in the present.

Here is an example.....I am sure we've all seen Hollywood movies where one person points a gun at another and commands one to "freeze" while pointing a gun at him, and the other mindlessly obeys and remains motionless ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/JIMBO66664/funny-picture-1198824017_zps7da7e898.jpg

As children, many of us remember play acting this same script where we point a gun at another and tell them to, "freeze".

I think I have found the basic, fundamental, time and place from which all this originated.

Later when I audited others, they described similar incidences of freezing's to mine. So, I assume this incident was pretty wide spread?

I also believe that's how many of us arrived here on earth,.... in a frozen condition. I know I did!

So, if you have no reality on what I have posted here, or if it seems far fetched, just write it off as science fiction.

Not science fiction my friend. Have you heard of a healing method named "Somatics" The creator Peter A, Levine, His theory is that when someone experiences Trauma it is possible for the emotion experience to be frozen within the person. His healing method Melts the frozen trauma.


Thanks, Billy -- this is exactly what Dianetics does. In fact 'somatics' was a word coined by LRH, which was first defined in 'Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health' (his 1950 book).

[Billy]

Things which happen to us in the past, we have a tenancy to dramatize unconsciously in the present.

Here is an example.....I am sure we've all seen Hollywood movies where one person points a gun at another and commands one to "freeze" while pointing a gun at him, and the other mindlessly obeys and remains motionless ?

Later when I audited others, they described similar incidences of freezing's to mine. So, I assume this incident was pretty wide spread?

I also believe that's how many of us arrived here on earth,.... in a frozen condition. I know I did!

So, if you have no reality on what I have posted here, or if it seems far fetched, just write it off as science fiction.

Not science fiction my friend. Have you heard of a healing method named "Somatics" The creator Peter A, Levine, His theory is that when someone experiences Trauma it is possible for the emotion experience to be frozen within the person. His healing method Melts the frozen trauma.


Thanks, Billy -- this is exactly what Dianetics does. In fact 'somatics' was a word coined by LRH, which was first defined in 'Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health' (his 1950 book).

Well there's a coincidence :happy: I did think that the word "Somatics" sounded very LRH ish.

When speaking to my friend she also said that the somatics healing method reminded her of my shamanic healing experiences.

For example: experiencing Trauma can allow an Archetypal character to enter into your life, ( The Frozen One) This character can allow you to display emotions or feelings of insecurity, Abandonment, victim. Ect.

This Archetype will stay with you as long as you allow it. Until one day you recognize this character within, is not you. you realize that this Archetypal Character has served its purpose and no longer serves your better good, And through ceremony you say thank you for being with me, your mission is now complete. Now that you do not serve my greater good. I allow you to leave with love. You become non attached to the frozen emotions and it melts away.

Avalon, Where science and spirituality meet right enough.

Peace

[the_real_dave-id]

Hey Bill, I'm getting a "404 File Not Found" message when trying to access the synopsis for The Invisible Third World War. Is it me or is there a problem?


Mea culpa. Link fixed now. :)

http://projectavalon.net/The_Invisible_Third_World_War.pdf



Thanks Bill, I appreciate it! AND thank you too Midnight Rambler!

[novus]

Things which happen to us in the past, we have a tenancy to dramatize unconsciously in the present.

Here is an example.....I am sure we've all seen Hollywood movies where one person points a gun at another and commands one to "freeze" while pointing a gun at him, and the other mindlessly obeys and remains motionless ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/JIMBO66664/funny-picture-1198824017_zps7da7e898.jpg

As children, many of us remember play acting this same script where we point a gun at another and tell them to, "freeze".

I think I have found the basic, fundamental, time and place from which all this originated.


Later when I audited others, they described similar incidences of freezing's to mine. So, I assume this incident was pretty wide spread?

I also believe that's how many of us arrived here on earth,.... in a frozen condition. I know I did!

So, if you have no reality on what I have posted here, or if it seems far fetched, just write it off as science fiction.

Not science fiction my friend. Have you heard of a healing method named "Somatics" The creator Peter A, Levine, His theory is that when someone experiences Trauma it is possible for the emotion experience to be frozen within the person. His healing method Melts the frozen trauma. He has a few books, One is Waking the Tiger, My good friend is going through this healing method. After 30yrs of struggling she at last has found a method that is working. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=waking+the+tiger+peter+levine+pdf&oq=Walking+the+Tiger+Peter+&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l3.44088j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Anyways your post reminded me, So thought i would share.

Peace

Thanks for sharing. I will look at the link when time permits. The freezing incidents which I have posed are form my past lives and past lives of others I have audited. Though some my border on OT level confidentiality. I remembered these from simple dianetic auditing with an e-meter. So it's OK!

There is a more detailed information on the freezing process and it ramifications. in LRH's Book, A history of MAN written in 1947 I believe? long before the advent of OT levels of Scientology.

People who have this engram of being frozen in restimluation have chronic cold hands and cold feet

There is some heavy duty, restimulating stuff in History of Man that I think LRH would have been happier if he had published it in the OT levels? It's that powerful.

[jiminii]

In the face of this and other events around the world, somehow a someone who claims to hail from the future, who claims to control the weather with his mind, and who has actually gone so far as to state that he has singlehanded saved the planet will not be held accountable but even worse; will continue to be listened to and heeded. It takes no stretch of the imagination to see how the implications of what he states are, if not indeed insane, at least immoral. 70% of the world's population have no souls? Animals have no souls? Well then, I suppose it would be just find to subject them to any manner of torture or suffering, or at least look the other way when someone else does, because odds are they don't matter anyway?

Sorry villagers...energetics. I simply had to express this somewhere... Thanks.
The beings who are salvaging the planet CAME out of the TOP MOST POWERFUL BEINGS IN THE FUTURE. Metteyya is one, and he has put over a million here from the future. They would be the Natural clears on the planet. Of course NATURAL CLEAR has been interpreted as a being who never created an automatic 25 pictures a second recording memory. Yes this is true but they come from the future not the past. I speculate there is 69 more million Natural clears that came here from other Big Beings like Gaia. But I can't verify that. I only know what Metteyya created because I was audited to locate my other time lines and there are a million or so sent here with the purpose of raising the vibrations of the planet and a hope they can get their memory back. I am one that was lucky enough to get part of my memory back.

there are millions of people setup to reject anyone with power and Just HE CAN't HAVE IT. When we are put on the planet we are implanted to reject anything that could return a beings power so he can escape this planet. I can understand that.

That makes it MUCH HARDER To repair this place. I even found it from Commanding officers working in Scientology who ALSO COULD NOT HAVE someone else controlling their statistics. It literally drives them nuts to think someone else can control it. It knocks out their anchor points thinking they are not cause over their own organization. So I can understand your feeling.

it you want to fix this then just become more CAUSE yourself and if your postulates are pro survival the planet and win over mine ... then I will be all so happy ... so that eventually I can go off to some other place in the universe and take my 1000 years of vacation sitting on the beach or exploring the unknown.

there are a lot of other games I would like to play more than this game. I would much more prefer to be up there in the stars running games on star ships then down here trying to repair a bunch of degraded beings, perverts, criminals, insane politicians, insane medical people, insane doctors who sell insane drugs, insane psychiatrists who know nothing about the mind, insane world bankers using our money to destroy the world, insane oil people who want to pollute the world just for money, and all the other insane people on this planet JUST TO SALVAGE THOSE MOST POWER OT"S and artist, engineers, genius's, you know the good guys???

actually we have to repair it all, for even the degraded and evil people too. Because if we don't they will design more ways to try to trap us and control us. We have to remove their pain too so they can more or less Change their minds when they are relieve of all that pain and hatred.

I am stating truth with the HOPE it will get people to LOOK and be able to change their minds and try to find their own inner powers.

I only wish this can get people to awaken to the TRUE BEING THEY ARE.

jim

edited to make it more clear and fix typos

[araucaria]

JUST TO SALVAGE THOSE MOST POWER OT"S and artist, engineers, genius's, you know the good guys.

Jim, when addressing the average Avalonian, do you consider you are speaking to fellow salvagers or to some of the powerful OT's/good guys?

[Christine]

I have wished to post this for a long time. It is one of the best quotes on LOVE and the Greatness of Love I have read.

----------



WHAT IS GREATNESS?

BY L. RON HUBBARD

Conflict or tolerance, cooperation or opposition, love or hate, such are the questions of both daily living and international affairs. In this article dating from the spring of 1966, Mr. Hubbard addresses the question: When subjected to hatred, what then is the answer to one’s own happiness?

The hardest task one can have is to continue to love his fellows despite all reasons he should not.
And the true sign of sanity and greatness is to so continue.
For the one who can achieve this, there is abundant hope.
For those who cannot, there is only sorrow, hatred and despair. And these are not the things of which greatness—or sanity or happiness are made.

A primary trap is to succumb to invitations to hate.

There are those who appoint one their executioners. Sometimes, for the sake of safety of others, it is necessary to act. But it is not necessary to also hate them.

“True greatness merely refuses to change in the face of bad actions against one—and a truly great person loves his fellows because he understands them.”

To do one’s task without becoming furious at others who seek to prevent one is a mark of greatness—and sanity. And only then can one be happy.

Seeking to achieve any single desirable quality in life is a noble thing. The one most difficult—and most necessary—to achieve is to love one’s fellows despite all invitations to do otherwise.

If there is any saintly quality, it is not to forgive. “Forgiveness” accepts the badness of the act. There is no reason to accept it. Further, one has to label the act as bad to forgive it. “Forgiveness” is a much lower-level action and is rather censorious.

True greatness merely refuses to change in the face of bad actions against one—and a truly great person loves his fellows because he understands them.

After all, they are all in the same trap. Some are oblivious of it, some have gone mad because of it, some act like those who betrayed them. But all, all are in the same trap—the generals, the street sweepers, the presidents, the insane. They act the way they do because they are all subject to the same cruel pressures of this universe.

Some of us are subject to those pressures and still go on doing our jobs. Others have long since succumbed and rave and torture and strut like the demented souls they are.

We can at least understand the one fact that greatness does not stem from savage wars or being known. It stems from being true to one’s own decency, from going on helping others whatever they do or think or say and despite all savage acts against one, to persevere without changing one’s basic attitude toward Man.

To that degree, true greatness depends on total wisdom. They act as they do because they are what they are—trapped beings, crushed beneath an intolerable burden. And if they have gone mad for it and command the devastation of whole nations in errors of explanation, still, one can understand why and can understand as well the extent of their madness. Why should one change and begin to hate just because others have lost themselves and their own destinies are too cruel for them to face?

Justice, mercy, forgiveness, all are unimportant beside the ability not to change because of provocation or demands to do so.
One must act, one must preserve order and decency. But one need not hate or seek vengeance.

It is true that beings are frail and commit wrongs. Man is basically good, but Man can act badly.

He only acts badly when his acts, done for order and the safety for others, are done with hatred. Or when his disciplines are founded only upon safety for himself regardless of all others; or worse, when he acts only out of a taste for cruelty.

To preserve no order at all is an insane act. One need only look at the possessions and environment of the insane to realize this. The able keep good order.

When cruelty in the name of discipline dominates a race, that race has been taught to hate. And that race is doomed.

The real lesson is to learn to love.

He who would walk scatheless through his days must learn this—never use what is done to one as a basis for hatred. Never desire revenge.

It requires real strength to love Man. And to love him despite all invitations to do otherwise, all provocations and all reasons why one should not.

Happiness and strength endure only in the absence of hate. To hate alone is the road to disaster. To love is the road to strength. To love in spite of all is the secret of greatness. And may very well be the greatest secret in this universe.

[Carmen]

Love that post Christine! It is truly inspiring.

[Bob]

I have wished to post this for a long time. It is one of the best quotes on LOVE and the Greatness of Love I have read.


Thanks Christine - when you reposted Hubbard's "What is Greatness", I remember reading it during the L's, and I will point out one very important item that was important to me, that is neglected by the OT's who haven't had POWER run through completion on including pulling all the with holds. Without doing that leaves "evil intents" in place on a dynamic. ( The q/a is about finding the terminal and op-term that the person assumed as a valid exterior viewpoint which they then subconsciously emulate - it's called "the winning valence". ) The Love concept on all the dynamics included and includes compassion caring to help another get through, not to make them a more worthy opponent as some of the "org" folks wanted. True compassion gets into that knowing feeling that is beyond words. Anyway, it was good to see that again in writing.

Bill I believe I can state this so easily - shouldn't one recognize with "Any Body" that one looks up to, truly considers great, one is sending aspiration particles to that person expecting admiration (and THANKS, remember to click thanks) back in exchange? And if those particles don't come then there is the ARCU break. The game is with oneself isn't it tho. Christine mentions love and I believe that is with all folks, all things, all the dynamics in other words. SO there one is on the 8th and something I would believe to be the 9th - the spot where even universes are created - how would you do that to even bring in the dynamics? Abandon them or help them?

Like higher OT stuff above cleared "theta meat" (cleared theta clear, or functional OT as he liked to call it) deals with practicals above the need to DO something. Compassion brings up something in the 8th dynamic, allowing one to be actually worthy of creating worlds and helps in stewardship for everyone on the playing field on all the dynamics (safe space doctrine). Missing factor not talked about in all the processing is compassion on all flows 4 way etc. Where is the recall the last time one loved oneself, the person next door, the rocks, the water..

So as one forgets in order to have a game, one makes it fun or not so fun. One causes other to forget to win. One cause the environment to loose in order to best it. One forgets to Love too.

There was a point when I asked them, "Who's Drama are you playing then, who gave you a game to play. " ponder that can we?

My last discussion with John was "recall the time you entered the universe then made another believe it was here", gets you out kinda fast, but who want's DMSofMH - John invented the table top auditing that Hubbard took to capitalize off of. We did get into the Love Discussion too during that moment of 0-0-0

I can say have only met ONE humble OT exterior with compassion out the wazoo, his name was John Galusha - best original auditor, book and other wise who was before all the freezoners. John was a dear friend. I can't tell you joy understood, touch the face of God stuff he could work with. And help one find why would one even care to go on.

I am glad you met Bill and processed with him.

No point talking about processing, who's the best freezoner.

hugs guys and gals

Bob

(PS incase folks need to know who John Galusha was :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Zone_(Scientology) - oneoldgoat: 22864

[TargeT]

while reading a local forum for the islands I noticed a woman asking for an auditing partner, she was immediately ridiculed for following a "cult" and a bunch of other inane judgement based crap; I jumped in and offered to audit with her & will be meeting her on tuesday next week to discuss how to go about it.

funny thing is, I'm doing a solar install on my house and want to do net-metering (where the excess power is put back on "the grid" and the electric company gives you credit for it) she happens to be the sole inspector for the net-metering program... strange coincidence (which I'm pretty sure I don't believe in anymore... "coincidences").

so, from skeptic to soon-to-be auditor (or something?) I guess I'm trying out bothsides of the Dianetics topic.

[Bob]

while reading a local forum for the islands I noticed a woman asking for an auditing partner, she was immediately ridiculed for following a "cult" and a bunch of other inane judgement based crap; I jumped in and offered to audit with her & will be meeting her on tuesday next week to discuss how to go about it.

funny thing is, I'm doing a solar install on my house and want to do net-metering (where the excess power is put back on "the grid" and the electric company gives you credit for it)

she happens to be the sole inspector for the net-metering program...

strange coincidence (which I'm pretty sure I don't believe in anymore... "coincidences").

so, from skeptic to soon-to-be auditor (or something?) I guess I'm trying out bothsides of the Dianetics topic.

Hey TargeT - great to see ya again. Dianetics was OK as a book. Auditing is all about listening and directing to help one see what is hidden, thereby when that which is hidden is seen any thing that is emotionally charged blows away, if the original concept/event has been spotted. Kinda like if you stubbed a toe cause you were walking on a ladder with a red stripe on it, if you see another ladder in the future, u would be possibly afraid of having some thing happen.. Maybe then by that fear, you get clumsy and have a self fulfilling prophecy. Finding when the toe was injured on the ladder the first time then frees up the subconscious circuit. It's easy to do.

I'm glad Bill pointed out his experiences and reading Christine's posts got me to take a look at this thread, so I could see his background in writing instead of seeing a video.

Bob

[jiminii]

JUST TO SALVAGE THOSE MOST POWER OT"S and artist, engineers, genius's, you know the good guys.

Jim, when addressing the average Avalonian, do you consider you are speaking to fellow salvagers or to some of the powerful OT's/good guys?

Actually you have to salvage all of them or you will end up with the same game forever. Those degrade beings must also have their pain removed and brought up and and allowed to destimulate from all that past until he is a valuable being again, or they will go back into their designs of infiltration covert destruction from inside.

But yes anyone who is a spirit has this potential to be an all powerful creator and there are those who are here that are salvagers and/or powerful OT's/good guys.

And they could possibly be some of the average avalonians on this website.

jim

[Christine]

Dear Bobd,

Well indeed sir you are a true experiencer of life.. .. your contribution to Avalon is much appreciated!

So had no idea you were familiar with the "Tech" .. for starters I am not a Scientologists, actually know next to nothing about it other than a very good auditor got me out of an extraordinaryly complex and diablolical problem. Ha, the problem has turned out to be my teacher.

My point in quoting Hubbard or anyone is that the fundaments (axioms) of existence and truth can be found everywhere. My experience has shown that even in the darkest place the truth is there.

I am struggling at the moment and the big struggle comes just from the points you raise here.... first how one of the highest of attributes, humility, is seemingly lacking in most of the OT literature I have been exposed to. It seems to me that our greatness is contained in our smallness.. that the minute we become self aware and great in our own eyes we lose this most vital point of view. So too goes the compassionate heart and thus begins the rupture with the all encompassing force field we call love.

And all tangled up in this is responsibility.. .. if we create - our lives, our situations, our games... and then go on to create worlds, universes (as if we can even understand these) what is our responsibility?

And I ask, who am I to all of these others of this creation? I come closer and closer to knowing myself, as I become increasingly more aware of my mind. When I know that these are my thoughts and this leads to my freedom. Thus I am accepting more responsibility for all of my thoughts, words and actions. So I ask, is my liberation also the liberation of another or do I become more trapped in another endless cycle of games by being responsible?

I know that is very convoluted, especially for a soul that cries for an end to this game. Who sees liberation as collecting all of its pieces into itself and remembering into the great oversoul - Wisdom, where nothing is ever loss and true freedom is not being at effect. Then perhaps I can serve.

Tears came to my eyes seeing this man you call a friend, for something in me resonates with the great act of compassion and touching the "face of god"...

Thanks.



I have wished to post this for a long time. It is one of the best quotes on LOVE and the Greatness of Love I have read.


Thanks Christine - when you reposted Hubbard's "What is Greatness", I remember reading it during the L's, and I will point out one very important item that was important to me, that is neglected by the OT's who haven't had POWER run through completion on including pulling all the with holds. Without doing that leaves "evil intents" in place on a dynamic. ( The q/a is about finding the terminal and op-term that the person assumed as a valid exterior viewpoint which they then subconsciously emulate - it's called "the winning valence". ) The Love concept on all the dynamics included and includes compassion caring to help another get through, not to make them a more worthy opponent as some of the "org" folks wanted. True compassion gets into that knowing feeling that is beyond words. Anyway, it was good to see that again in writing.

Bill I believe I can state this so easily - shouldn't one recognize with "Any Body" that one looks up to, truly considers great, one is sending aspiration particles to that person expecting admiration (and THANKS, remember to click thanks) back in exchange? And if those particles don't come then there is the ARCU break. The game is with oneself isn't it tho. Christine mentions love and I believe that is with all folks, all things, all the dynamics in other words. SO there one is on the 8th and something I would believe to be the 9th - the spot where even universes are created - how would you do that to even bring in the dynamics? Abandon them or help them?

Like higher OT stuff above cleared "theta meat" (cleared theta clear, or functional OT as he liked to call it) deals with practicals above the need to DO something. Compassion brings up something in the 8th dynamic, allowing one to be actually worthy of creating worlds and helps in stewardship for everyone on the playing field on all the dynamics (safe space doctrine). Missing factor not talked about in all the processing is compassion on all flows 4 way etc. Where is the recall the last time one loved oneself, the person next door, the rocks, the water..

So as one forgets in order to have a game, one makes it fun or not so fun. One causes other to forget to win. One cause the environment to loose in order to best it. One forgets to Love too.

There was a point when I asked them, "Who's Drama are you playing then, who gave you a game to play. " ponder that can we?

My last discussion with John was "recall the time you entered the universe then made another believe it was here", gets you out kinda fast, but who want's DMSofMH - John invented the table top auditing that Hubbard took to capitalize off of. We did get into the Love Discussion too during that moment of 0-0-0

I can say have only met ONE humble OT exterior with compassion out the wazoo, his name was John Galusha - best original auditor, book and other wise who was before all the freezoners. John was a dear friend. I can't tell you joy understood, touch the face of God stuff he could work with. And help one find why would one even care to go on.

I am glad you met Bill and processed with him.

No point talking about processing, who's the best freezoner.

hugs guys and gals

Bob

(PS incase folks need to know who John Galusha was :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Zone_(Scientology) - oneoldgoat: 22864

[Bob]

Dear Bobd,

Well indeed sir you are a true experiencer of life.. .. your contribution to Avalon is much appreciated!

So had no idea you were familiar with the "Tech" .. for starters I am not a Scientologists, actually know next to nothing about it other than a very good auditor got me out of an extraordinaryly complex and diablolical problem. Ha, the problem has turned out to be my teacher.

Thank you so much Christine. What I have seen in you in the messages and insight are inexpressible - the touch the face of God understandings are there.

I've been to many place around the world, met with many people from His Holiness Dalai Lama, his Oracle, all sorts of kings and queens, business people, the "Cabal" leaders, the worst of the worst "terrorists", the sick in the hospitals, the "healers", the "losers", the homeless, "the greatest of the great"..

there is only one thing in common - we are all people asking, Why are we here What is it all about, is there Anything more than this, Where will I go when I die.. It's there in everyone of us. Sometimes we have the courage to talk about it, and then wish to share the insight with another.. Sometimes we stumble, sometimes we fly.. When I met Mr. Arafat, I said the same things to him and we shared a moment of heart - he felt God and changed. He opened up peace talks shortly thereafter.

There is ONE specific KEY nobody ever talks about as OT's or with Kings and Queens, or with ministers or psychologists, the Presidents and the person under the door entryway without any house... it is this:

1) When you have a JOY an understanding a Sorrow a Win or a Loss - savor it for what it means to you...
2) At that point, get the idea of a gift. Get the idea of what the ultimate Source of All is, whatever that may be for one...
IF it is GOD, if it is the 8th Dynamic if one is a CoS (Church of Scientology devotee practitioner), or a Free-Zoner - - -
Find the One (or the ALL) who is there, the "sum total" of all the experiences and beingnesses reach out to that, the "all that is all", and
3) Get the idea that you are now sending your gift of that experience you achieved to that "allness of consciousness"

As you do that see and experience the "allness" receiving that "gift". And let go.

At that moment open into receiving what may come back from the Allness of that which was is and will be..

Say thank you for that.

That brief exercise is the sole mission purpose of why this Universe was created - let's call it God wants to know what is it like to be YOU. That is all that it is. Who are you, what do you feel, what have you learned, loved, felt, hated, gave up, took in, all of you - that is all that it is about - what is it like to be you...

When we drop the bod, that experience happens automatically.. I mentioned to Tesla_WTC_ in another post Tesla actually did that when he dropped the bod, giving all his experience tho instead of to allness but to everyone who could perceive it - it is a point in time that his data is totally accessible because of his gifting..

When you do that action the Gift, I call it the ultimate gift, to reach out, touch the face of God, and LIVE to tell about it (come back in other words), one then can do that much more free from the "gift" which one experienced, and one in that moment, truly experiences cosmic allness abundance, and the idea of scarcity or shortage manipulation or consciousness manipulation goes awy.

John had that type of magic to give one the space, help one thru the issues to get there and want to come back, not just blow away or play like a god some where..

I still am struck by the joy and yes my eyes are tearing recalling it all.



My point in quoting Hubbard or anyone is that the fundamentals (axioms) of existence and truth can be found everywhere. My experience has shown that even in the darkest place the truth is there.

I am struggling at the moment and the big struggle comes just from the points you raise here.... first how one of the highest of attributes, humility, is seemingly lacking in most of the OT literature I have been exposed to.

It seems to me that our greatness is contained in our smallness.. that the minute we become self aware and great in our own eyes we lose this most vital point of view. So too goes the compassionate heart and thus begins the rupture with the all encompassing force field we call love.

I so totally agree - when we are great we surround ourselves with mass - money toys people, and we hope to control it all. We keep it and we shut down the flow of consciousness. The Let go (and let love) exercise gets out past the struggle. The controllers force us into mass, into issues, into "pissing matches" so that one can win and one can loose, weoh what a game again.. Let Go and Let Love, and the let go should be to the Allness, who asked the first question, what am I who am i where am I going is there anything more than thiis...



And all tangled up in this is responsibility.. .. if we create - our lives, our situations, our games... and then go on to create worlds, universes (as if we can even understand these) what is our responsibility?

I kinda think I would if i were going to emulate the ALLness is use the methods being used now - look to see what individuals do, how they live what they learn, and it IS individuals, not a we are all one - we are all one defeats the ALLNESS question of what is it to be YOU as the singularity... the Allness gets its answers tho, all possible permutations of Individuality what it all means..



And I ask,
who am I
to all of these others of this creation?

I think You are You - the sum total of every experience you have from the beginning to the end, and in this present moment, your identity, the name tag that has the body with it, is gathering answers - that question you ask is one of the questions that the ALLNESS is asking and I guess, expecting you to present. My suggestion IS try the exercise above, whatever you have put it in the gift package and send it out to the allness spirit, the God central point creator, with the unconditional love - and then watch when you have been in Service to the Allness watch what happens..




I come closer and closer to knowing myself, as I become increasingly more aware of my mind.

When I know that these are my thoughts and this leads to my freedom.

package as a gift that realization and send it out with the understanding that the ALLNESS receives it, accepts it. Then something comes back, watch for it, and remember to say THANK YOU and move forward.



Thus I am accepting more responsibility for all of my thoughts, words and actions. That is very very kewel ! all part of the understanding of what it is like to be YOU.



So I ask, is my liberation also the liberation of another or do I become more trapped in another endless cycle of games by being responsible?

Your choice I believe. I find when you do something, you create a model. You can activate that model by INFLOWING LIGHT from the ALLNESS, the source of this Universe - find the allness of all ness, the ultimate, that is the source to find the light in.. and when you are in your model, inflow and allow it to fill you up. AS you do that, you open the doors for other to do the same, you do NOT have to beam them with your light, you don't have to burn out - you can open doors for them by being the model. the body being the temple in which the light manifests..

I had that happen to me once in Egypt, after going to a Christmas party, I was shining so bright, a Sufi master who had invited us all from around the region to come together for a Christmas party, to just share and be.. I was so in a state of having touched the face of God I was ready to tell about it, and he said, shhhhh.. too soon, u are glowing too brightly tone it down, they are not ready for this.. Interesting story to talk about some time about how people just want to reach and share some good news with each other. It was a relieve after all the shelling going on up north.




I know that is very convoluted, especially for a soul that cries for an end to this game. Who sees liberation as collecting all of its pieces into itself and remembering into the great oversoul - Wisdom, where nothing is ever loss and true freedom is not being at effect. Then perhaps I can serve.

Tears came to my eyes seeing this man you call a friend, for something in me resonates with the great act of compassion and touching the "face of god"...

One doesn't have to invalidate one's person to be humble, one just understands there is a lot in the Universe, and my job, my mission is to be me, and to get what it is to be me back to God. My observation, you can get more time, more open free space in which to get more insight, experience more opportunities have times you can share, if one does that exercise, remember one does that normally when one dies, during the long cycle of incarnations with different bodies, becoming a different identity. Do the gift and get more time, more space and it is simply AMAZING what comes back from the Source Allness in return for the gift.


Thanks.


Thanks Christine thank you for being you

kindness

And thank you BILL RYAN for the dedication of holding the space for all of us to share.

[Carmody]

Sometimes, for the sake of safety of others, it is necessary to act. But it is not necessary to also hate them.

That's the hard one for people.

They live love via inertia and inaction, and act...only in cases of violence, anger, fear, hatred, pain, and so on.

And they wonder why they can't get anything done. Anything that is truly functional. They're starting off on a incorrectly colored/filtered/minded footing.

It is a conditioning that must be shed, as difficult as that may be.

[Bob]

Sometimes, for the sake of safety of others, it is necessary to act. But it is not necessary to also hate them.

That's the hard one for people.

They live love via inertia and inaction, and act...only in cases of violence, anger, fear, hatred, pain, and so on.

And they wonder why they can't get anything done. Anything that is truly functional. They're starting off on a incorrectly colored/filtered/minded footing.

It is a conditioning that must be shed, as difficult as that may be.

I kinda think one who is not psychotic and fixated, is able to change, to act, not act, hate not hate, create not create or destroy or not destroy - the list goes through all the known emotions. Freedom means able to act by choice, not necessarily by compulsions. In a full life, one can have all the emotions from the worst to the best completely by choice. Even choosing to be effect instead of cause.

And agreed, very much the conditioning one accepts as real or the conditioning that one fights, one becomes..

I think it would be great some time to discuss EVIL INTENT, created and kept in place, fixated by those in the know to best those whom they consider meat and lesser beings.

Like how about this image (ever seen this in real life or something like it?) Someone fixated and psychotic can take a look at let's say an elderly person struggling to make it up an escalator and their shawl looks like it could get caught in the teeth of the steps. The psychotic may speak up and say HEY and nothing more, and the older person forgets what they are doing, and then their shawl gets stuck in the escalator and they strangle falling down. The Evil Intent Psychotic laughs in side, tells their buddies see how powerful I am ! (the hidden message he tries to say, is they did it themselves.. absolving himself from his actions)

A person who cares in the same scene will do what? There's one's homework assignment. Enjoy.

[eaglespirit]

There is ONE specific KEY nobody ever talks about as OT's or with Kings and Queens, or with ministers or psychologists, the Presidents and the person under the door entryway without any house... it is this:

1) When you have a JOY an understanding a Sorrow a Win or a Loss - savor it for what it means to you...
2) At that point, get the idea of a gift. Get the idea of what the ultimate Source of All is, whatever that may be for one...
IF it is GOD, if it is the 8th Dynamic if one is a CoS (Church of Scientology devotee practitioner), or a Free-Zoner - - -
Find the One (or the ALL) who is there, the "sum total" of all the experiences and beingnesses reach out to that, the "all that is all", and
3) Get the idea that you are now sending your gift of that experience you achieved to that "allness of consciousness"

As you do that see and experience the "allness" receiving that "gift". And let go.

At that moment open into receiving what may come back from the Allness of that which was is and will be..

Say thank you for that.

That brief exercise is the sole mission purpose of why this Universe was created - let's call it God wants to know what is it like to be YOU. That is all that it is. Who are you, what do you feel, what have you learned, loved, felt, hated, gave up, took in, all of you - that is all that it is about - what is it like to be you...

When we drop the bod, that experience happens automatically.. I mentioned to Tesla_WTC_ in another post Tesla actually did that when he dropped the bod, giving all his experience tho instead of to allness but to everyone who could perceive it - it is a point in time that his data is totally accessible because of his gifting..

When you do that action the Gift, I call it the ultimate gift, to reach out, touch the face of God, and LIVE to tell about it (come back in other words), one then can do that much more free from the "gift" which one experienced, and one in that moment, truly experiences cosmic allness abundance, and the idea of scarcity or shortage manipulation or consciousness manipulation goes away.

John had that type of magic to give one the space, help one thru the issues to get there and want to come back, not just blow away or play like a god some where..

I still am struck by the joy and yes my eyes are tearing recalling it all.



I am loving the sharing on this page, so glad I checked in.

Thank You so much, Bobd...and Wishing You Well!
...and Thank You to All the previous Posters Sharing, it is Wonderful : )

What I set in bold from Your sharing is what came to me by default from my powerful happenings on that Native American Hill in 2007. I simply could not do anything from there on out without being humble and grateful for the gifts I received.
The experience and acting upon it as You share is the ultimate 'higher' entrainment wonder!
And I share the experience by suggesting to Others when called to to live each day as 'purely' as is possible and 'give away' the gifts through selflessness ...listening to 'promptings' more closely and acting on them through the heart.

Aho!

[Bob]

Beautiful EagleSpirit -

[1 flew over]

I am loving the sharing on this page, so glad I checked in.

Thank You so much, Bobd...and Wishing You Well!
...and Thank You to All the previous Posters Sharing, it is Wonderful : )

What I set in bold from Your sharing is what came to me by default from my powerful happenings on that Native American Hill in 2007. I simply could not do anything from there on out without being humble and grateful for the gifts I received.
The experience and acting upon it as You share is the ultimate 'higher' entrainment wonder!
And I share the experience by suggesting to Others when called to to live each day as 'purely' as is possible and 'give away' the gifts through selflessness ...listening to 'promptings' more closely and acting on them through the heart.

Aho!

Eagle Spirit

I hope that you will return to this thread someday to answer my question.
I noticed in your post you mentioned an experience on that Native American Hill in 2007. I went back through the last half a dozen pages and searched your listings of postings and do not find it listed. Could you or would you direct me to the posting? You piqued my interest.

May Great Spirit and your Ancestors be with you on your path.

Aho
1 Flew Over

[Christine]

Hi 1 flew over,

I don't know which Native American hill eaglespirit was referring to but a friend of mine had an amazingly powerful experience at this location out side of St. Louis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cahokia

[1 flew over]

Hi 1 flew over,

I don't know which Native American hill eaglespirit was referring to but a friend of mine had an amazingly powerful experience at this location out side of St. Louis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cahokia

Christine
Thank you for your feedback. I had never heard of that culture. I have connection to (long story)and have studied fairly heavily the Hopewell and the Adena cultures that built astrologically positioned mounds around Ohio as early as 1000 BCE. But I am getting off topic for this thread. I’ll just PM Eaglespirit .

Be Well
1 Flew Over
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adena_culture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopewell_culture

[gripreaper]

The sessions that Amzer Zo described look very similar indeed to me to Dianetics sessions. (Maybe AZ can confirm.)...

Definitely. That's what it sounded to me as well; a Dianetics session with all its communications components (especially the acknowledgement of whatever answer comes up) down to the "re-living" of incidents as if happening in present time, [emphasis mine]by-passing the soul's/mind's "I remember," by directly addressing "spirit" (i.e. "File Clerk" in Dianetics, which LRH later realized to be the thetan/being itself).

And this is what Primal Therapy does as well. The visceral cellular catharsis is necessary to remove the blockage in the respective chakra, held there by the belief, and return access to that energy to the whole where it is then available for more focused and directed intent and manifestation. It is the energetic charge which "fires off" and opens up the blockage and releases the emotion as well as the visceral cellular imprint. The idea is not to erase the memory, but to remove the sequestered agitating charge from it and connect it back to the whole.

What I have found, is almost all techniques do not address the very core visceral cellular cathartic counterpart, and therefore the energy field has holes in it and is not clear, and the potential for astral penetrations into the field can occur. This is the caveat of all techniques, to build the energy body from the ground up, and outward through the layers while maintaining the integrity of the inner cellular world of the body.

And this is the essence of life and the experience of being in a body, to carve the body vessel so that it can hold the fulness of spirit, as an individuated consciousness, and still be all of the whole of spirit which is the cosmos. The body cannot hold the fulness of spirit without exploding until the vessel is built one layer at a time.

It is a game, as all creation happens in balance. In order for manifestation to occur, there has to be both polarities within the electromagnetic spectrum of the energy field of the cosmos, which then oscillates between the poles, and that is what gives the manifestation of the hologram form. Its a co-creation and does not happen in a vacuum.

So for every tyrant, there is a victim, both in agreement. It is neither good or evil, dark or light, only when seen from a polarized perspective. In animation, in oscillation, it's just two polarities in agreement to manifest.

But, before I get off on a tangent here, I'd like to know of any resources in the Pacific Northwest of the US where I could peruse rons org, or holographic kinetics. I still have some energy trapped in my second chakra which is tied to numerous lifetimes and has a huge charge on it.

[dpwishy]

I was watching an interview with Robert Monroe who claimed that L ron did not write Dianetics. That he found it already written and reproduced it as his own. He made a comment that this is how the book was written so quickly. He also said L Ron was not that good at the employing the technique. That he went and studied where L Ron was in the beginning. How much merit does this have?

In divine friendship,
your brother,
-wishy

[Christine]

Hi dpwishy.... could you give a bit more information on why you thought what Robert Monroe said is true and what he meant when he said LRH "found" the book Dianetics? I am curious being the LRH went on to write over 250 works of fiction and hundreds of volumes of technical processes. His work stands for him so to say he found Dianetics does deserve a bit more explanation.

Thanks,
Christine


I was watching an interview with Robert Monroe who claimed that L ron did not write Dianetics. That he found it already written and reproduced it as his own. He made a comment that this is how the book was written so quickly. He also said L Ron was not that good at the employing the technique. That he went and studied where L Ron was in the beginning. How much merit does this have?

In divine friendship,
your brother,
-wishy

[jiminii]

THE STORY OF A STATIC
Once upon a time there was a thetan, and he was a happy little thetan and the
world was a simple thing. It was all very, very simple.
And then one day somebody told him he was simple.
And eversince that time he has been trying to prove that he is not.
And that is the history of the Universe, the Human Race, the Fifth Invaders, the
Fourth Invaders, the 3 1/2 Invaders, the people on Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, Arcturus, the
Markab Galaxy, the Markab System, the Psi Galaxy, Galaxy 82 -
I don't care.where you look-that's the story.
Only it's too simple a story, much too simple a story, because a thetan would
have to admit he was simple if he understood it.
LRH

this is a quote from LRH. It is one of my most favorite quotes. Because in all this complexity. I still try to find simplicity in the old places and villages where everything is shared in complete simplicity. All that are there in those villages are so so so poor compared to the rest of the world. But in their simplicity they are probably the most enlightened even if they are not aware of it.

jim

[dpwishy]

Hi dpwishy.... could you give a bit more information on why you thought what Robert Monroe said is true and what he meant when he said LRH "found" the book Dianetics? I am curious being the LRH went on to write over 250 works of fiction and hundreds of volumes of technical processes. His work stands for him so to say he found Dianetics does deserve a bit more explanation.

Thanks,
Christine


I was watching an interview with Robert Monroe who claimed that L ron did not write Dianetics. That he found it already written and reproduced it as his own. He made a comment that this is how the book was written so quickly. He also said L Ron was not that good at the employing the technique. That he went and studied where L Ron was in the beginning. How much merit does this have?

In divine friendship,
your brother,
-wishy

I don't know much about L Ron or Dianetics. Just something I heard in an interview and I figured this would be the place to ask. What if L ron was the first to find this already written so he was the first to practice the tech's and grow them? I don't mean anything by it, you guys seem to know a lot about this stuff so I was just wondering. I am just curious.

I believe the interview was CBii06UyWwY

I have always respected Robert Monroe and what he has done for consciousness also. He seems like a honorable person, which I have heard quite the contrary about L Ron. Just wondering, you guys are the experts....

In divine friendship,
your brother,
-wishy

[jiminii]

I was watching an interview with Robert Monroe who claimed that L ron did not write Dianetics. That he found it already written and reproduced it as his own. He made a comment that this is how the book was written so quickly. He also said L Ron was not that good at the employing the technique. That he went and studied where L Ron was in the beginning. How much merit does this have?

In divine friendship,
your brother,
-wishy


My father was up in Idaho and he was trying to find a good way to get the gold out of the old left over mines there that one can get a lot more money out if it was extracted more refined since the prices of gold went so high that it was worth doing this kind of refinement.

He took me to a place and showed me how some people were really getting the gold out of the leftover piles from previous mining operations.

I asked why he was doing this.

He said, "Son ... there is probably a million ways to do anything wrong ..... but there is always someone out there that is doing it right ..... all you have to do if find the person who is doing it right."

It wouldn't matter if LRH FOUND it from someone else. It only matters that he recognized what it would do and could use it to help others.

and from there find the more advanced processing that came out of learning how to take someone into their past.

jim

[dpwishy]

I was watching an interview with Robert Monroe who claimed that L ron did not write Dianetics. That he found it already written and reproduced it as his own. He made a comment that this is how the book was written so quickly. He also said L Ron was not that good at the employing the technique. That he went and studied where L Ron was in the beginning. How much merit does this have?

In divine friendship,
your brother,
-wishy


My father was up in Idaho and he was trying to find a good way to get the gold out of the old left over mines there that one can get a lot more money out if it was extracted more refined since the prices of gold went so high that it was worth doing this kind of refinement.

He took me to a place and showed me how some people were really getting the gold out of the leftover piles from previous mining operations.

I asked why he was doing this.

He said, "Son ... there is probably a million ways to do anything wrong ..... but there is always someone out there that is doing it right ..... all you have to do if find the person who is doing it right."

It wouldn't matter if LRH FOUND it from someone else. It only matters that he recognized what it would do and could use it to help others.

and from there find the more advanced processing that came out of learning how to take someone into their past.

jim

I agree it wouldn't matter in that aspect, but doesnt it say something about the person and character if this is the case and they put their name on it like they created it? If I found a painting that no one has seen before and put my name on the bottom of it, even if it was the greatest painting in the world that changed peoples mind on what a painting could be forever. What does that say about me? I think in the end these things do matter.....

I didnt know if this was something that was talked about, rumored or so on. Like I said, I dont know much about L ron.

In divine friendship,
your brother,
-wishy

[1 flew over]

I was watching an interview with Robert Monroe who claimed that L ron did not write Dianetics. That he found it already written and reproduced it as his own. He made a comment that this is how the book was written so quickly. He also said L Ron was not that good at the employing the technique. That he went and studied where L Ron was in the beginning. How much merit does this have?

In divine friendship,
your brother,
-wishy

Wishy

I hold Robert Monroe in high regard. He did some very expansive work and I still intend to do some of his hemi-sync work. I talked with a couple of his instructors a year or so ago.

There was a book published in Germany in 1934 called Scientologie and it had what seems to be some of the original precepts that LRH later expanded in his Organization of Scientology. I have a copy of it around here somewhere.

I have never heard about an earlier Dianetics book. I have always considered Dianetics; modern science of Mental health to be poorly written and very redundant writing. I found it very difficult to read, somewhat difficult to follow but quite effective in helping others to "clean up" their beings. To me it shows itself to be very hastily written, like it was just thrown together in a week and over lots of pots of coffee. I have listened to many of Hubbard’s early tapes and he has a casual but knowledgeable and effective auditing style. I have known some who worked with him very early like John Galusha (a great man) and he never mentioned anything about Hubbard being anything but the original author, even though there were personality conflicts between them.

I have been close friends with people who worked, studied and audited with Hubbard and they mentioned that even though he was a very driven man and worked insane hours per week to try to improve and expand the organization and auditing tech, he seemed to actually believe that it was the answer to our way out of this current game we live in.

I studied and received auditing from Scientology Missions, Orgs and advanced Orgs until the early eighties when the Organization was overtaken and everything radically changed totally for the worst. I am now involved with Ron’s Org and have never looked back.

Scientology used to be fun, inexpensive and very expansive. I looked into the organization recently and it is now oppressive/suppressive, mind numbingly expensive and reduces peoples self awareness and expansiveness. It is nothing but a very sick shell of what it once was. Many of the staff are well intentioned but are being lied to.

I'll watch the video from Monroe and take a read on it.

All of this is spoken from my, oh so humble opinion.

Be Well
1 Flew Over

[jiminii]

I was watching an interview with Robert Monroe who claimed that L ron did not write Dianetics. That he found it already written and reproduced it as his own. He made a comment that this is how the book was written so quickly. He also said L Ron was not that good at the employing the technique. That he went and studied where L Ron was in the beginning. How much merit does this have?

In divine friendship,
your brother,
-wishy


My father was up in Idaho and he was trying to find a good way to get the gold out of the old left over mines there that one can get a lot more money out if it was extracted more refined since the prices of gold went so high that it was worth doing this kind of refinement.

He took me to a place and showed me how some people were really getting the gold out of the leftover piles from previous mining operations.

I asked why he was doing this.

He said, "Son ... there is probably a million ways to do anything wrong ..... but there is always someone out there that is doing it right ..... all you have to do if find the person who is doing it right."

It wouldn't matter if LRH FOUND it from someone else. It only matters that he recognized what it would do and could use it to help others.

and from there find the more advanced processing that came out of learning how to take someone into their past.

jim

I agree it wouldn't matter in that aspect, but doesnt it say something about the person and character if this is the case and they put their name on it like they created it? If I found a painting that no one has seen before and put my name on the bottom of it, even if it was the greatest painting in the world that changed peoples mind on what a painting could be forever. What does that say about me? I think in the end these things do matter.....

I didnt know if this was something that was talked about, rumored or so on. Like I said, I dont know much about L ron.

In divine friendship,
your brother,
-wishy

I don't know either if it is fact or fiction. the thing is this. many people tried to add their THINK in the beginning and finally it came out that the GROUP wanted it to be from LRH ONLY .... and either approved or not by him personally.

So that became policy to protect the material from alteration from people who will try to add technology that destroys the original good workable technology.

many people did try to alter this and they had to make policy

called "Keeping Scientology working" a policy that puts LRH in charge of being the originator or Source point of the data.

it was converted to a religion because they could put him in jail by saying he is not allowed to practice without a license.

so he couldn't just create a philosophy and operate it with the laws being setup the way they are.

jim

[dpwishy]

Thank you guys and gals for the well thought out and intelligent posts, this is why I asked this question here. I knew you guys would step up and deliver. This is why I love this forum. I hope you guys dont think I have something against this man, just something I heard and was wondering the validity of it. Thanks again

In divine friendship,
your brother,
-wishy

[Bill Ryan]

-------

For the early history of Hubbard's writing of the 1950 Dianetics book (and much else -- it's all pretty accurate), do listen to this balanced and very well-researched 1987 BBC radio documentary.

Excellent, and also fascinating for anyone with an interest in Hubbard's life, full of archived interview material with people no longer with us.

Ruthless Adventure : the lives of L Ron Hubbard
http://projectavalon.net/Ruthless_Adventure_the_lives_of_L_Ron_Hubbard.mp3 (40 mins, 21 Mb)

[1 flew over]

-------

For the early history of Hubbard's writing of the 1950 Dianetics book (and much else -- it's all pretty accurate), do listen to this balanced and very well-researched 1987 BBC radio documentary.

Excellent, and also fascinating for anyone with an interest in Hubbard's life, full of archived interview material with people no longer with us.

Ruthless Adventure : the lives of L Ron Hubbard
http://projectavalon.net/Ruthless_Adventure_the_lives_of_L_Ron_Hubbard.mp3 (40 mins, 21 Mb)

Bill

Thank you for this recording. It adds a good historical link. I had never heard this before, I'll add it to a little collection I have started.

Be Well
1 Flew Over

[Chanlo23]

There is ONE specific KEY nobody ever talks about as OT's or with Kings and Queens, or with ministers or psychologists, the Presidents and the person under the door entryway without any house... it is this:

1) When you have a JOY an understanding a Sorrow a Win or a Loss - savor it for what it means to you...
2) At that point, get the idea of a gift. Get the idea of what the ultimate Source of All is, whatever that may be for one...
IF it is GOD, if it is the 8th Dynamic if one is a CoS (Church of Scientology devotee practitioner), or a Free-Zoner - - -
Find the One (or the ALL) who is there, the "sum total" of all the experiences and beingnesses reach out to that, the "all that is all", and
3) Get the idea that you are now sending your gift of that experience you achieved to that "allness of consciousness"

As you do that see and experience the "allness" receiving that "gift". And let go.

At that moment open into receiving what may come back from the Allness of that which was is and will be..

Say thank you for that.

That brief exercise is the sole mission purpose of why this Universe was created - let's call it God wants to know what is it like to be YOU. That is all that it is. Who are you, what do you feel, what have you learned, loved, felt, hated, gave up, took in, all of you - that is all that it is about - what is it like to be you...


I came to understand how very powerful this one key could be on a single hot summer afternoon in the Texas countryside.

One year, after I had been laid off from my state job, I began attending a series of healing workshops to expand my skill set in areas related to body-energy-process-trance work. While the workshop techniques had proven useful, their true value to me had been in extraordinary moments of great wonder and awe that nourished me on every level. I received insights, healing and understanding that was not covered in the 3D presentations via a wide array of phenomenal experiences in the most unexpected of circumstances.

By the 6th or 7th workshop, I had come to expect something magnificent each and every time - a grand vision, a colossal 'aha', a paradigm shift, a significant healing for myself or one of the attendees, and one or more miraculous moments when the universe itself paused to whisper in my ear. Then, it happened. Two of the first three days of the latest workshop were simply OrDINARy. Utterly Mundane. Crushingly Technical.

I was beyond disappointed as I sat on a hillside alone, at the lunch break on the third and last day, looking out over this beautiful, green valley, and teared up. I was feeling sorry for myself, feeling that I had gained 'nothing' because I had not been gifted as I had so many times before. Then, sitting there, I thought back over those times, recalled all the gifts I had been given previously, reliving the fullness of each experience as it had enriched my life. I teared up again, but this time, in gratitude. I gave it all back, saying "Thank you" out loud. At that very moment, a soft, sweet breeze caressed my cheek and lifted my hair. The sun reached down to kiss me on the forehead and I WAS blessed.

Thanks to BobD for reminding me. Thanks to Bill for this thread.

[cuitlahuac]

-------

...

CBR left the Church in 1982, as part of the great exodus that was partly precipitated by Dane Tops. (Read his interview transcript here (http://projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.html).) CBR moved to Europe, founded what he called "Ron's Org" in 1984, and with another ex-Church and highly trained auditor, Ulrich Kramer, researched a number of missing techniques that LRH had either never discovered, or never made public. Those techniques opened the door to a great number of people to develop themselves in ways that they had never believed possible.

I myself connected with Ron's Org in 1988, and it was immediately obvious to me that this was the 'way out'. Now, Ron's Org primarily exists in Europe and Russia (astonishingly to many, there are more highly trained and able Ron's Org scientologists in Russia than anywhere else), though there are small groups of very highly trained people in America and South Africa. I know many of them personally. Some of them are the highest quality and most able human beings it has ever been my privilege to know.

...

:)


Hi Bill. When I met in the Internet the Freezone (2005) established by Capt. Bill Robertson, one of the key elements were the "Free Zone Decree" and the "No Intervention" Decree, where according to Mr. Robertson there is an agreement with the governing body of this galaxy to forbid the use of nuclear warfare as well as biochemical warfare on this planet and "No Intervention" is allowed on the planet from external (ET) sources. I can give more details, buy I wanted to know if this topic has been discussed earlier in this thread, and in case it hasn't then I would want to ask what is your opinion on this.

For my part, all I can say is that there seems to be no real threat of nuclear war (except due to "natural causes" as was Fukushima) and no cases of real biochemical warfare (except by hidden means like transgenic food). This tends to confirm the "Freezone Decree" and the "Non Interference" Decree. But I have no other means to verify the facts of the Decrees or the existence of the "Governing Body for this galaxy".

[cuitlahuac]

Here are the references to the Free Zone decree and the Non Interference decree Capt. Robertson used to name the Scientology Freezone. Even today it is hard for me to write about them because I have no way to verify the validity of them nor I have the means to verify the validity of the Galactic Patrol or the other statements in the decrees.


The Free Zone Decree

The FREE ZONE DECREE was received on Earth on the 10th of November 1982 at 1030 GMT. It states, (as relayed from Mainship, Sector 9):
Official Decree - Galactic Grand Council

The planet known as Teegeeack - local dialect "Earth" or Terra - Sun 12, Sector 9, is hereby declared a Free Zone.
No political interference in its affairs from any other part of the Sector or Galaxy will be tolerated.
No economic interference in its affairs will be tolerated from any non-planetary agency or power.
All of its inhabitants are hereby declared Free Zone Citizens and free of external political or economic interference.
The regulating agency of this decree is the Galactic Patrol Sector 9, Sector Commander Elron Elray and his designated representatives.
The planet is henceforth under the Sole Auspices of the Galactic Patrol, Sector 9, for coordination with Galactic and Sector Affairs and for compliance with this decree.
The Technical and Ethical experiments in progress on Teegeeack are not affected by this decree and are to continue under the auspices of the Galactic Patrol, Sector 9.
This Decree is issued by unanimous vote of the Grand Council.

GRAND COUNCIL CHAIRMAN
FOR ALL MEMBERS
SECTOR 0
GALAXY 1

Link: http://www.freezone.org/cbr/sector9/e_fzdecr.htm

Sector 9: the sector of the galaxy where Earth is located at.

Galactic Grand Council: The ruling body for this galaxy, located at the center of the galaxy.

Elron Elray: Sector Commander that was known on earth as L. Ronald Hubbard.

Sector 0: the center of this galaxy.

Galaxy 1: The Milky Way, galaxy 0, Andromeda.

I would like to add that this subject was proposed for discussion to the mexican ufologist Jaime Mausan on his TV program "Tercer Milenio" but he rejected to talk about it stating "I am no expert on that".

[sian]

Thank you Mr Ryan and Avalon for bringing light to the possibilities of humanity's potential and going beyond the controversial blindness so evident in pounded ignorance. many have attacked without realizing/knowing of the greater 'knowing' behind the veil of deception

by writing on this thread (i've lurked for quite a long time in the background before joining here recently) i communicate with reason that i'm finally getting it, slowly but surely.

loss of 'memory' has been the down fall of man as most who participate here would attest to. it is certain, and rings true for me. the very fact i have severe memory loss in everyday activity never mind being able to digest/organize/process my mind to it's fullest potential is now proven, to me, by how RH Self Analysis techniques which are so powerful and so simple. could a man like this be delusional, not in my book, he may not have been perfect, but none of us can claim to that.

i'm only just, in the past couple of weeks or so, doing the exercises, still procrastinating somewhat, the habit of a lifetime realized and admitted lol. however, the simple techniques are extremely powerful, the personal evidence in the reactions within my body, some quite severe, to many of the recalls only reiterates i have yet to find clarity within me. nothing i have tried in the past has come close to this tech. to be honest, i'm terrified of the magnitude that could lie hidden but in order to be set free i have to face my responsibilities and fears without a shadow of a doubt.

Thanks again
Sian

[Davidallany]

------

A little more in answer to seko above:

One can also do sessions with a distant auditor over Skype. (The meter can be with either person.)

This is great if one is living in another country or busy or both. I have always been interested in doing this, but travelling was an issue.

[Davidallany]

At this stage of my development I understand the term scientology to mean Social engineering/spiritual awakening. Scientology is powerful and is as valid and effective as Buddhisim,sometimes is even more so. except that in scientology one goes directly to the heart of the issue, while in Buddhisim one can spend many years beating around the bush just to get over shadows and fears. Scientology is the shortest way to crossing the bridges so far and as far as I know. I think scientology and buddhisim are great companions, perhaps two faces for the same coin.
I have a great admiration for the Buddha, LRH and CBR.

[cuitlahuac]

Is there a ban on nuclear warfare on planet Earth as described in The NON-INTERFERENCE DECREE?:

The NON-INTERFERENCE DECREE on Sector 9 was received on Earth on the 29th April 1982 at 1200 GMT. It states, (as relayed from Mainship, Sector 9):

"The stars in this Sector are under a Non-Interference Decree from Galactic Central - Grand Council. The stipulations of the decree are:

1. No interference is permitted in the zone known as Sector Nine until further notice.

2. This decree is to be enforced by the Galactic Patrol.

3. There shall be no use of atomic, chemical, or biological weapons in the zone.

http://galac-patra.org/teegeeack.html

I have no means to verify this statement. But so far, it is clear to me that no nuclear weapons have been used so far on the planet, and no chemical or biological weapons either. So, the only means for the "Rulers of the World" to use atomic, chemical and biological weapons is by smuggling them or using covert means to use them. This would be the case of the Fukushima nuclear incident, that is said to have been created by Israel and the USA via a computer virus (stuxnet) and an engineered tsunami. This would be a case of a smuggled nuclear weapon.

Also in the case of the Gulf of Mexico, there is evidence that British Petroleum used synthetic life (synthetic microbes) to "manage" the false flag spill, and this would be a case of smuggled biological weapons, as would be genetically modified foods. Monsanto herbicides would be a case of smuggled chemical weapons.

It seems to indicate that the decrees might be authentic, but we need to take care of false flag atomic, chemical and biological attacks on mankind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuDO0l8K90I

BP Admits using Synthetic Microbes in Gulf

[gnostic9]

Hello Bill, gnostic9 here. I read this/or these replies some time ago. Where ever the path has led you is the path for you, and I respect that. For me it's different and I hope you respect that too. Many strange things have occured in my journey, but I have learned from self to understand, i am not 100% sure of the definition of truth and life. I can only feel that which i experience. I was in a coma !990 and had a dream, which brought me back to consciousness, it took me years to understand it. but it was much more simple than my mind could understand at the time. Anyway much love and respect!

[cuitlahuac]

Hi Amzer. I would like to say that there is a very broad spectrum of "walk-outs". There is the latest big ones, Mark Rathbun and the Flag ex-commanding officer, but I would have to say they were not facing up and chalenging the tyranical rule of Miscavige and its zombie staff. I did chalenge them since the early 80's and I was quickly dismissed. So, I would not consider Mark and others like him much trustworthy. But the emphasis is here on the techniques.


For the "new wave" of walk-outs establishing themselves as "Indies" or "Independents" and joining Ron's Org and the Freezoners in their "efforts" (not so much efforts anymore since Miscavige doesn't have a foot left to shoot) to spread Ron's "tech" in their vicinity:

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/

On the right hand side there is a blogroll of independents.

Marty himself, as well as his wife Monique AKA "Mosey" are auditors sticking to the original tech and approach to life.

[gnostic9]

-------

Well! There's no harm in being ambitious. :)

The thread title is a joke. My intention here is to lay some basic principles out clearly -- in terms of what is and what isn't. It's intended to be a kind of A-B-C-1-2-3. Any criticisms of what this is all about can go on to another thread. My purpose here is to explain stuff so that the critics are at least well-informed.

:)

This is about pragmatism. It's about what works: tools that are available for use. And, if this is appreciated, I'd quite like to share my personal experience, which is fairly extensive.

For reasons which I hope members and visitors alike will respect, I've always thus far kept this pretty much all compartmentalized from my work and my mission. That's because the mission is more important, and the topic of discussion here is ONLY about a set of tools that can assist one in tackling one's mission more effectively.

In the pages that follow I'll no doubt say that over and over again. This is about a set of tools which work. They really do, when used in ethical and skilled hands.

And you don't have to use them. There are many others. But some of you may be waiting for this information, and it would be small for me to withhold it all merely because I was concerned about the reception from detractors. This stuff can transform your life. (And, again, so can many other sets of tools. Make your choice: you're a free being.)

I undertake to you that I will tell the truth, will not distort anything, state clearly if there's something that *I* don't know or don't fully understand. So here goes.

***

I have never been in the Church of Scientology, and am considered by them to be one of their [B]enemies (http://projectavalon.net/The_Scientology_Enemies_List.pdf). I went there, in London, back in 1984 for a couple of weeks for some "Book One" auditing. (This was after I had done Werner Erhard's est Training, and was driven to discover where all of Erhard's extraordinarily powerful techniques came from. It was almost all scientology.)

"Book One" auditing is basic 1950-style auditing, based on Hubbard's seminal book, Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental Health. I can post it later in PDF format. There was no meter involved. The book was designed to enable "Mr and Mrs Everyman" to 'audit' each other with no reliance on any organization.

The Organization came later, after Hubbard was inundated with questions and requests for further information. He founded scientology (literally: "the science of knowing how to know") as protection from the American Medical Association, who wanted to hang Hubbard from the highest tree for "practicing psychotherapy without a license".

Hubbard was also loudly critical of psychiatric techniques and drug prescription, and so earned himself few friends in Washington. The 'Church' was never a religious organization. It was just a protective device. Jim Humble (also a ex-scientologist), the inventor of MMS, is doing exactly the same thing now, and calls himself a Bishop. Humble, like Hubbard, was just intent on not ending up in jail.

Back to my personal experience. I had 40 hours of "Book One Auditing", and was mightily impressed, It cut through my life junk like a knife through butter. And then when I looked around me, saw the 'Church' environment and the quality of the people involved, I realized straight away that something was badly wrong.

As synchronicity would have it, I immediately met someone who had left the Church who told me about the 'Free Zone', and explained about the takeover a few years earlier. All was explained. After that I never returned, and never looked back.

I opened up my past lives, cleared the backlog of charge from this-lifetime upsets, and started to develop my suppressed abilities. The principle here is one of "negative gain". One removes emotional charge, like scrubbing burned food off a dirty pan, and underneath -- guess what! -- it's all bright and shiny.

The abilities were there all along, but were suppressed underneath the mountain of collected stuff. All of that is the by-product of incomplete business.

I discovered for myself the following:

We humans are all in a 'fallen state'. Long, long ago, we all used to -- as beings -- be gods, as it were: creators, manifesters, dolphins playing together joyfully in the universal sea. As we accumulated more and more unfinished business --- basically, things that we'd not taken responsibility for and never cleaned up -- we 'solidified' until we can no longer remember who we are or the way things once were. And we've all been around for WAY longer than the 'Big Bang'.

Auditing, which is a simple, structured, question-and-answer process ('auditing' simply means 'listening'), removes this 'emotional charge', and these blocks. Gradually -- in most cases, over a period of years -- one starts to remember and recover who one really is.

Nothing is judged or evaluated by the auditor (or should be). One's realizations are all one's own. The sovereignty of one's experience is (or should be) paramount.

The e-meter is a tool, like a pendulum but far more exact, that assists the auditor in locating areas of 'available' charge. In itself it does nothing. The meter is not even necessary, but it does help the auditor to locate 'stuff' more precisely.

There's a kind of sequence involved. At first, in the earliest stages of auditing, in most cases one is focused on one's life as a human being: issues with family, work, the usual things that people might talk to a counselor about.

But as these problems get handled, one's attention almost always goes on to larger and deeper issues: Who am I? Where did I come from? What am I doing here on Planet Earth? What is my personal mission? How can I best help others?

As one progresses, cleans more and more layers of charge off, and rehabilitates lost abilities, one acquires tools (which in other situations might be called 'white-magical' or 'good-shamanic') which enable one to assist others remotely at a distance.

These are not mysterious in any way, but are part of our lost birthright. We can all do this stuff. What one also realizes when these states are reached are that the same tools are used for evil purposes by those with dark agendas -- and have been for thousands of years here on this planet.

In that manner, the whole issue then becomes transformed from "How can I help myself so that life doesn't hurt so much?" to "How can I help defeat the forces of evil that are destroying the planet?"

Back to Hubbard. I never knew him (he was way before my time), but I did know 'Captain' Bill Robertson -- known as 'Captain Bill' or 'CBR' to his friends. CBR was a remarkable, totally ethical, and very powerful man. He twice wrote down the winning German lottery numbers, but refused to buy a ticket as he insisted that it would be unethical to use his abilities in that way. He had a huge presence, and was a natural leader and inspirer.

CBR left the Church in 1982, as part of the great exodus that was partly precipitated by Dane Tops. (Read his interview transcript here (http://projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.html).) CBR moved to Europe, founded what he called "Ron's Org" in 1984, and with another ex-Church and highly trained auditor, Ulrich Kramer, researched a number of missing techniques that LRH had either never discovered, or never made public. Those techniques opened the door to a great number of people to develop themselves in ways that they had never believed possible.

I myself connected with Ron's Org in 1988, and it was immediately obvious to me that this was the 'way out'. Now, Ron's Org primarily exists in Europe and Russia (astonishingly to many, there are more highly trained and able Ron's Org scientologists in Russia than anywhere else), though there are small groups of very highly trained people in America and South Africa. I know many of them personally. Some of them are the highest quality and most able human beings it has ever been my privilege to know.

Hubbard (LRH) was clearly a flawed man -- and many great people are. I am not qualified to judge him as a person or as a family man: only assess his legacy. My consideration of his legacy does not include the Church itself, which grew to became a huge aberration.

Hubbard's techniques -- the basics of which he mainly developed in the first few years of the 1950s, when he was at his most intuitively brilliant -- work, and can sometimes work miraculously. They take training and dedication to apply: but then (ask any Buddhist!), so do many other spiritual disciplines.

I'll pause here, and welcome all and any questions. I'll undertake to answer them all as best I can. I can maybe help interpret some (but not all!) of the story that Jim is trying to recount, and will do my best, bearing in mind that any interpretation of Jim's experience may not be fully correct. (I do not know him personally, but feel -- as do many others -- that he's trying to tell us something important. Don't throw away the mud without sifting it through for diamonds first.)

:)wow Bill This is extrrodinary to in corparate. we all have inarticulate expieriencres. **** it happens to all ex-patients/ blessed be those that know!

[cuitlahuac]

It has surprised me the fact that some people do not know that the Scientology network was taken by the government of the United States and their "behind the scenes" extraterrestrial masters. It is seen as an "unsubstantiated" claim.

Also the latest walk out's like Marty Rathbun seem to overlook the fact of the takeover and insist in a "Reform" of Scientology.

One things is for sure in this regard. If the Scientology network has been taken over, then a reform movement would be silly. It would be like finding that the USA chemtrail program is in reality a mass poisoning operation disguised as geoengineering. And if we would insist that the chemtrail program be "Reformed", I imagine that the US government would say: "Sure, we will reform our chemtrail program, we will now fit planes with bigger hoses to spray you more efficiently".

So, is there evidence for the takeover of the Scientology network by the USA and its behind the scene ETs in 1982? Here are some references relating to a takeover:

A quote from L. Ronald Hubbard:


"I hereby declare Scientology to be non-political and non-ideological. ...The reason for this declaration is...the efforts of [the United States] government...to seize Scientology in the United States... . Scientology is for a free people and is itself on this date declared free of any political connection or allegiance of any kind whatever."
L. Ron Hubbard
HCO Policy letter of 10 January 1968
Politics, Freedom From

http://web.archive.org/web/20050404113647/http://sc-i-r-s-ology.pair.com/contents/howirsruns.html

Why the Government Took Out the Guardian Office


"IRS and so forth over in Washington [were] trying to seize Scientology in the United States, and I had to tell them no. And I told them no. And they're told for the moment."
L. Ron Hubbard 29 June 1965
Lecture, "The Well-Rounded Auditor"

The Church of Spiritual Technology (CST), current owner of trademarks and all copyrights of Scientology, could never have come into being as long as the Guardian Office (GO)--created by L. Ron Hubbard and headed by his wife, Mary Sue Hubbard--was in place. There were many reasons, documented in our chronological Documents index.

http://web.archive.org/web/20050211092056/http://www.sc-i-r-s-ology.pair.com/contents/govtookoutgo.html



"All outgoing mail to attorneys, tax cruds, the alleged government...must be sent to the Legal Officer."
L. Ron Hubbard Founder of Scientology


http://web.archive.org/web/20050123191743im_/http://www.sc-i-r-s-ology.pair.com/images/ourfounder.jpg

Tax crud Meade Emory, Founder of the "Church" of Spiritual Technology, Founder of "the Scientology religion."

Meade Emory is founder of the Church of Spiritual Technology (CST), doing business under the fraudulent fictitious business name of "L. Ron Hubbard Library." It isn't a church, and it isn't a library: it's the richest and most powerful corporation in the entire Scientology empire, owner of all the copyrights, owner and controller of the most important trademarks, and being run by the Internal Revenue Service through three non-Scientologist tax attorneys hand-picked by Meade Emory and "the Service"--IRS--to be Special Directors of CST for life.

http://web.archive.org/web/20050123191743/http://www.sc-i-r-s-ology.pair.com/founder.html


This explains the takeover from the "Mouth" of the FBI:


A rough quote from an FBI memorandum obtained through the Freedom of Information Act in 1978 will state it very well:

"To infiltrate the Church and move our agents up to Board of Director positions. We must also prevent the spread of Scientology to China and Japan as it is so similar to Bhuddism it would spread like wildfire".


http://www.freezone.org/cbr/sector9/e_sob12.htm

[cuitlahuac]

Here is where we can see there is two main lines of thought regarding Scientology. Those considering that Scientology went wrong because it needs "Reform" and those considering Scientology went wrong because it was taken over by the Government of the USA and its "behind the scenes" extraterrestrials.

The first one (Reform movement) overlooks the fact that Scientology is a tool, and like any tool and scientific development, it will be first used by the powers that be as a weapon against the population. That was the case of nuclear physics (the nuclear bombing of Japan) and most other discoveries and tools. Therefore, a "Reform" of Scientology will be a pointless endeavor as long as its mis-use by the government is not solved. It would be like trying to "Reform" nuclear physics overlooking the fact that the government of the USA wanted to nuclear-bomb Japan in the first place.

The "Official" Church of Scientology International is the property of the Government of the USA. Only some Freezone Scientology non governmental organizations (Scientology in exile) have survived so far and some are the only existing free Scientology technology available on Earth. This is not a problem of "Reform". This is a problem of who is using the technology. In the final analysis, if something needs reform, it is the government of the United States and its psychopathic extraterrestrial masters.

[cuitlahuac]

The Key for the takeover of Scientology in 1982 was the IRS. After the takeover took place, there was a dismantling of protective Scientology entities like the Guardian Office and the creation of a superior entity named "Church of Spiritual Technology". There was a site in the net explaining all this. But is it as such? The key entity of the Suppressive-government-of-the-USA-controled Scientology network is said "Church of Spiritual Technology". Now, I remember I saw that name in spanish, "Iglesia de Tecnología Espiritual" (Church of Spiritual Technology) in the translation of the "Volunteer Minister's Handbook" in the early 90's because I was part of the translation team. The manuals had been printed in China, and the books were sent back to China and corrections were being made (pasting stickers on the manuals) to conceal the mention of this "Church of Spiritual Technology".

http://www.volunteerministers.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/gcui_inline_default/ENG-scn_handbook3.jpg

[cuitlahuac]

Also, a friend of mine (a translator) saw a letter from that "Church of Spiritual Technology" addressed to a new OT VIII. All this would indicate that the Church of Scientology International acknowledges the existence of this said "Church of Spiritual Technology". What do we know of this entity? We know it was the creation of the IRS and is the top organization in the government-controled-Church-of-Scientology pyramid of power.

http://rundbrief.org/kd0044/archiv/sc-i-r-s-ology/veritas/images/powermed.gif

https://web.archive.org/web/20040826001514/http://www.sc-i-r-s-ology.pair.com/veritas/secret/index.htm

http://www.wilfriedhandl.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/17112011-Collage-4.jpg

[cuitlahuac]

After the 1982 takeover, the following chart was the "new" organization shown to scientologists (supposedly with the Ok from Hubbard) with the Religious Technology Center at the top. What scientologists were not told was that the tip of the pyramid was IRS staffed Church of Spiritual Technology.

http://www.buchfreund.de/covers/12903/7694.jpg

[cuitlahuac]

I put this posts because I lived the takeover of Scientology in 1982 by the government of the USA, and now I see that same government (the shadow government of NWO) now taking the non-scientology church I participate in, and my deduction is that all non-scientology related religions are now being taken just as they did with Scientology. And I would suppose not only religions are being taken but groups too. It is not my intention to scare anybody, but to put them in the know, and I have discovered that many people wants to be in the know as regards all this.

I will stop posting about the takeover because this is a Q and A thread.

I have a question for this thread. What is true. The highest advanced level in scientology is OT VIII, or there are higher advanced levels? Because Hubbard states in writing (in 1976 I think) that there are many OT levels above OT VIII.

[1 flew over]

cuitlahuac

Many of us have seen the Veritas info years ago.

There were many rumors about LRH's leaked upper OT levels. Factually I doubt if any but the "old" OT levels were actually written by him. I have many friends who did the old OT levels and found them very powerful and had great wins but a few had problems in that they were not completely cleaned up before advancing that far on those processes. Cooked their little noodles.

I have done through OT VII on the "new" OT levels and they can be a grind outside the Cof$ and almost imposable and insanely expensive within the Cof$. Many people were and are still on the Cof$ OT VII after 20+ years.

Many of us left the Cof$ in the early 80s switched to Ron's Org and never looked back. When I was doing Excalibur, Ron’s Org’s rough equivalent to the Cof$ OT 4-8, I was amazed and a quite a bit pi**ed off at the amount of time and money I wasted on the Cof$'s OT levels. Excalibur is much more like LRH would have written streamlined, fast, powerful and amazingly complete. Excalibur is usually finished within a year or so and is all solo (self) audited. Well except maybe for a little clean up every once in a while, at least for me.

Of course this is my own oh so humble opinion.

Be Well
1 Flew Over

[cuitlahuac]

Thanks for the clarification. In the following publication Ronald states that there are many OT levels above OT VIII. I remember reading that publication.
Capt. Bill Robertson states that those levels were given to him by El Ron (Hubbard) "telepathicaly" in the 80's, and that statement of given to him "telepathicaly" is going to be a problem for many people, an it also posses a problem for the confirmation or verification of those above OT VIII levels being real Hubbard levels. But the point is that they are confirmed by Hubbard, contray to the statements from Marty Rathbun. Marty apparently states in his books that those levels above OT VIII were an invention of Miscavige. They could not be invented by Miscavige because Hubbard states that those levels existed in 1977.

I also remember OTs doing very fast OT III and OT VII, the original ones, before 1982. But when the "NEW" OT levels arrived, they took a very long time to do. What I understand of OT VIII is that it was only available in research notes. I understand that OT VIII was "assembled" into a pack by Miscavige and that might be the reason for some deaths from people completing NEW OT VIII. In fact, one of those OT VIII completions died in a burglar of his home in México.

Quote:
HCO BULLETIN OF 24 JANUARY 1977

Remimeo
All Auditors
All Supervisors
All Interneships

URGENT AND IMPORTANT
TECH CORRECTION ROUND-UP

...

X: ADVANCED GRADES

For a number of years people have wondered when OT VIII would be released. Well, to tell you the honest truth, OT VIII has been in existence all those several years, and to it has been added a very large number of OT grades. None of them have been issued. Notes for all these grades are in existence. What I have been waiting for is 2 or 3 months of free time to go over these materials and write them up and make them available through Advanced Organizations.

Now I will make a bargain with you. If you get all the tech straightened out and the orgs and flaps and emergencies off my lines and get your training in and your Word Clearing in and everything flying and this civilization even more thoroughly pointed in a civilized direction, you will buy me those 3 months’ worth of time so I will be able to afford the time to write up all these Advanced Levels I have researched. Do your job well and buy me these three months.

Is it a bargain?
End Quote.


cuitlahuac

Many of us have seen the Veritas info years ago.

There were many rumors about LRH's leaked upper OT levels. Factually I doubt if any but the "old" OT levels were actually written by him. I have many friends who did the old OT levels and found them very powerful and had great wins but a few had problems in that they were not completely cleaned up before advancing that far on those processes. Cooked their little noodles.

I have done through OT VII on the "new" OT levels and they can be a grind outside the Cof$ and almost imposable and insanely expensive within the Cof$. Many people were and are still on the Cof$ OT VII after 20+ years.

Many of us left the Cof$ in the early 80s switched to Ron's Org and never looked back. When I was doing Excalibur, Ron’s Org’s rough equivalent to the Cof$ OT 4-8, I was amazed and a quite a bit pi**ed off at the amount of time and money I wasted on the Cof$'s OT levels. Excalibur is much more like LRH would have written streamlined, fast, powerful and amazingly complete. Excalibur is usually finished within a year or so and is all solo (self) audited. Well except maybe for a little clean up every once in a while, at least for me.

Of course this is my own oh so humble opinion.

Be Well
1 Flew Over

[cuitlahuac]

This is incredible. No wonder Miscavige eliminated the original books:


1970 - 1972
OT 9 - 22 (in unissued note form, see quote below)
Quote from the book "Dianetics, the original thesis 30 July 1973":
"There are perhaps 15 levels above OTVII fully developed but
existing only in un issued note form, pending more peoples' full
attainment of OTVI & VII "

http://blacklies.xenu.ca/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/dtot-1971-cvr-front.jpg

[cuitlahuac]

Mike McCloughry was for me a stable datum mainly because he presented many of the Bill Robertson material (Freezone) in his internet sites. But recently he turned against Hubbard. I found that the main reason for this is that he didn't "join Scientology to become a scientologist but to infiltrate scientology". His original intention was infiltration, not seeking knowledge.

McCloughry in his own words:


As I already touched on, I did not join Scientology because I wanted to become a Scientologist.

I infiltrated it.

There is a difference.

...

Mike

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?25551-Mike-McClaughry/page5

[cuitlahuac]

Mike McCloughry, states in the Ex-scientologists MB that he infiltrated Scientology. He is the creator of HASI.ws, Scientologyintegrity.org, and other sites, no longer active in the net. What I don't know for sure is: Is he being mind controled? Is he working on his own?

I could elaborate on several subjects on this, like: McCloughry attempted to discredit the Freezone and Hubbard. He attacked hardly the "Fair Game" scientology policy, so is scientology Fair Game policy a valid weapon against enemies? What is for sure is that Fair Game policy is a dangerous weapon on the hands of anti social personalities, but just the same, a powerful gun is not good or bad in itself, but is good or bad depending on who uses it.

[Tonya]

I regret I didn't find this earlier. I recently ordered the Complete Dianetics How-to Kit by Bridge Publication. Are you familiar with it, or do you have an opinion on its potential? Any input is appreciated!

[Bill Ryan]

I regret I didn't find this earlier. I recently ordered the Complete Dianetics How-to Kit by Bridge Publication. Are you familiar with it, or do you have an opinion on its potential? Any input is appreciated!

I'd recommend being just a little careful about ordering anything from the Church of Scientology -- because (a) you'd likely be on at least some sort of a list (even just a marketing one), and (b) some of the material has been altered, sometimes in important ways, since Hubbard wrote it.

I don't have an opinion on the "Complete Dianetics How-to Kit", as I don't know what's in it. (Do let us know!) But Dianetics as a set of techniques, when properly and ethically applied, can clear up (erase) lots and lots of stuff that's pretty hard to reach by any other means (past life or early childhood traumatic incidents, and so on). But it does need to be applied by someone who's trained... it can't be run solo.

I do have all the material that Hubbard (and also Bill Robertson) ever wrote or compiled, archived in electronic form. Let me know if there's anything you'd like to see, and I can easily send you links.

[Tonya]

Thank you Bill. I recently read Ron Hubbards book on purification. Which led me, along with a friend's recent experiences, to seek out a way to truly clear myself. His book Dianetics is included in my recent purchase. I would be very interested in comparing and contrasting the content with the unaltered text you have. I was seeking a system to apply myself due to the high cost involved when I researched practitioners.

[johnf]

I have been hanging out with Bobd from avalon lately, and hearing a lot about
John Galusha. He was involved in founding an alternative processing system
called Idenics, does anyone have experience with that.
Have any materials that can be downloaded for co-auditing shown up online?

JohnF

[wegge]

is there an equivalent in scientology to projection as part of C.G. Jung´s psychology?

[johnf]

is there an equivalent in scientology to projection as part of C.G. Jung´s psychology?

There is a similar thing that to me seems more complete.

http://freezoneearth.org/Prometheus04/otThree/preot3/om_sequence.htm

There is a quote from LRH, I will repeat to the best of my ability.
" Joe is mad at Jack, not because of what Jack did to Joe, but what Joe did to Jack."

Groups that can take these ideas and apply them on a group level will be very powerfull.
If misapplied, like in the CofS, takeover is the result, I think this is basically how various positve groups became tools of the PTB.


JohnF

[wegge]

is there an equivalent in scientology to projection as part of C.G. Jung´s psychology?

There is a similar thing that to me seems more complete.

http://freezoneearth.org/Prometheus04/otThree/preot3/om_sequence.htm

There is a quote from LRH, I will repeat to the best of my ability.
" Joe is mad at Jack, not because of what Jack did to Joe, but what Joe did to Jack."

Groups that can take these ideas and apply them on a group level will be very powerfull.
If misapplied, like in the CofS, takeover is the result, I think this is basically how various positve groups became tools of the PTB.


JohnF

thank you!
I think it´s describing the "doing part" of things pretty well. What I think is kinda missing is the part of how I see people.
If someone is behaving arrogant in my eyes he has not actually done something to me or others but the concept of projection says I´m giving up my own arrogant part and giving all my power of it over to the other guy. What I´m looking for is how to get my own part back.

Another example is we´re projecting like crazy all the bad and evil stuff onto the cabal/PTB

hope that makes sense

kind regards

[Hervé]

[...]

... What I think is kinda missing is the part of how I see people.
If someone is behaving arrogant in my eyes he has not actually done something to me or others but the concept of projection says I´m giving up my own arrogant part and giving all my power of it over to the other guy. What I´m looking for is how to get my own part back.

Another example is we´re projecting like crazy all the bad and evil stuff onto the cabal/PTB

hope that makes sense

kind regards

Hi wegge,

I think that, first of all, one needs to determine for oneself if there is indeed a "projection" or an observation of things the way they actually are, as in:

Who or what is doing the perceiving?

What exactly is being perceived?

Where exactly is it perceived to be coming from?The above can help sort out if one is actually "projecting" or just being told one is doing so....

Because if one listens to these "You're projecting your own... blablabla!" it comes to the reductio ad absurdum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum) that if one witnesses a murder; well, the same proponent of "projection" will tell you with some firm aplomb that "It's all in your mind!"

See?

[wegge]

Yes but I think you can witness a murder and say "heee you badass murder I hate you for doing that" or you can just witness because I think in the moment of judgement you´re giving up your power (or whatever)

[Hervé]

Yes but I think you can witness a murder and say "heee you badass murder I hate you for doing that" or you can just witness because I think in the moment of judgement you´re giving up your power (or whatever)

... therefore:



Who or what is doing the perceiving?

What exactly is being perceived?

Where exactly is it perceived to be coming from?

[wegge]

could you give examples for each question?
thank you!

[Grizz Griswold]

I was a staff member and Professional Dianetics auditor for over five years. Dianetics seemed a practical way for reduction of engrams and puts one on the road to road to awakening. I have seen people with great results with this auditing. However once your'e in then comes Scientology it was a little too squirelly for me. I never had any problems from anyone. As an ex staffer I would be glad to answer any questions.

[Hervé]

could you give examples for each question?
thank you!

Sorry for the delay in answering...


1) Is it YOU perceiving directly or via something/someone else? Is it someone else doing the perceiving and relaying/filtering it?

2) Is it an object? A projection from an external source (screen)? A manifestation of one's belief? An illusion?

3) Is that perception being a directed intention from an external source? From one's own memory? Someone else's memory? From an entity? From an automaticity (machine)? From an AI?

[cuitlahuac]

-------

...

Hubbard (LRH) was clearly a flawed man -- and many great people are. I am not qualified to judge him as a person or as a family man: only assess his legacy. My consideration of his legacy does not include the Church itself, which grew to became a huge aberration.
...

:)

I think Hubbard comments on his "flawedness" here:


OT's get peculiar. They get fitful. They get moody. They can get keyed in, and all they could do about it was to subdue the errant thetan, turn a sleep-light on him, tell him to get more solid, and take him down to the hospital. "I know. I was there. I was the guy they did it to."

Taped Lecture July 9 1963, SHSBC 281, The Free Being.

[Grizz Griswold]

-------

...

Hubbard (LRH) was clearly a flawed man -- and many great people are. I am not qualified to judge him as a person or as a family man: only assess his legacy. My consideration of his legacy does not include the Church itself, which grew to became a huge aberration.
...

:)

I think Hubbard comments on his "flawedness" here:


OT's get peculiar. They get fitful. They get moody. They can get keyed in, and all they could do about it was to subdue the errant thetan, turn a sleep-light on him, tell him to get more solid, and take him down to the hospital. "I know. I was there. I was the guy they did it to."

Taped Lecture July 9 1963, SHSBC 281, The Free Being.

I think part of what you are describing about Hubbard was because he was developing these processes and using them on himself, which he said later you really shouldn't do. Without a professional auditor you could get yourself into deep S#%T and then have no way of getting yourself out of it. Little things like going insane and the like. Some of his talks describe things like what was quoted above the bad things that happened to him during development. I remember him saying he was his own guinea pig, experimenting on himself.

I think LRH was actually a good guy and had hopes of helping the entire planet, Scientology has gotten some bad press even some of is undeserved. Yes since Hubbard has gone it has turned into a gigantic turd mostly because of trying to make a profit, some have spent a million dollars or more trying to get up the chart. Dianetics or Book One seemed to have more benefits than Scientology processing at least thats my opinion.

Hubbard said in one of his talks during Pres. Kennedys administration that the PTB approached him about the possibility of using Black Dianetics [installing engrams into ones mind] and he refused. It was said that the PTB closed the DC org and seized every scrap of paper in the building. Now why would the gov want to program people?

Anyway all the friends I had in Scientology had good intention and sincerely wanted to improve the world. So don't judge them too harshly.

Former Scientology staffer and now Avalonian......Grizz

Ubi dubium ibi libertas

[Linda Joy Crutcher]

Well written words, Bill. I studied Dianetics back in the 70's. Like all books, we can always extract something that is useful and apply it to our lives, as I did with this one. I had no problem with Dianetics, nor do I have a problem with any material that serves to help man find his way to freedom. The problem with creating cohesive groups behind ideas is that they all become distorted and somewhat coercive over time. I think it's imperative that people keep an independence of mind and follow the dictates of logic and rationality, with an eye toward skepticism. It is very easy for seekers to become prey to religious or metaphysical persuasions whose thrones, much of time, are occupied by undeveloped and unenlightened personalities.

[ThePythonicCow]

Mel Fabregas has just interviewed an expert on present day Scientology, Tony Ortega: Scientology: Behind the Gutter - Behind the Cult (http://www.veritasradio.com/guests/2014/04apr/VS-140403-tortega.php)

[cuitlahuac]

OT's get peculiar. They get fitful. They get moody. They can get keyed in, and all they could do about it was to subdue the errant thetan, turn a sleep-light on him, tell him to get more solid, and take him down to the hospital. "I know. I was there. I was the guy they did it to."

Taped Lecture July 9 1963, SHSBC 281, The Free Being.

I think part of what you are describing about Hubbard was because he was developing these processes and using them on himself, which he said later you really shouldn't do. Without a professional auditor you could get yourself into deep S#%T and then have no way of getting yourself out of it. Little things like going insane and the like. Some of his talks describe things like what was quoted above the bad things that happened to him during development. I remember him saying he was his own guinea pig, experimenting on himself.

I think LRH was actually a good guy and had hopes of helping the entire planet, Scientology has gotten some bad press even some of is undeserved. Yes since Hubbard has gone it has turned into a gigantic turd mostly because of trying to make a profit, some have spent a million dollars or more trying to get up the chart. Dianetics or Book One seemed to have more benefits than Scientology processing at least thats my opinion.

Hubbard said in one of his talks during Pres. Kennedys administration that the PTB approached him about the possibility of using Black Dianetics [installing engrams into ones mind] and he refused. It was said that the PTB closed the DC org and seized every scrap of paper in the building. Now why would the gov want to program people?

Anyway all the friends I had in Scientology had good intention and sincerely wanted to improve the world. So don't judge them too harshly.

Former Scientology staffer and now Avalonian......Grizz

I can't believe this, but I found a non edited part of that tape and it has a lot more material on it. Here is the reference:


OTs get peculiar. They get fitful. They get moody. I remember one time about twelve trillion years ago. It was, some comedian on a stage, vast theater, pulled a gag about create and that sort of thing, and made a wisecrack of one kind or
another. An OT had to be subdued-he was up in the box, alongside the royal box, and he had to be subdued, one way or the other, but not till after he had torn down all the curtains and knocked down a four or five hundred-ton chandelier on the assembled meat-body multitude. Why?. It just keyed him in. What could they do about it? Turn a sleep light on him and tell him to get solid and take him down to the hospital. That was their total—total ability to put this boy back together again. I consider it fascinating; I know-I was there. I was the guy they did it to.

http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientology%20Materials/Tapes&Lect%20chrono/6105a07%20Saint%20Hill%20Special%20Briefing%20Course%20Lectures/301-400%20PDF/6307C09_SHSBC-309_The_Free_Being.pdf

[Grizz Griswold]

I think Hubbard comments on his "flawedness" here:

Quote OT's get peculiar. They get fitful. They get moody. They can get keyed in, and all they could do about it was to subdue the errant thetan, turn a sleep-light on him, tell him to get more solid, and take him down to the hospital. "I know. I was there. I was the guy they did it to."
Taped Lecture July 9 1963, SHSBC 281, The Free Being.


I can't believe this, but I found a non edited part of that tape and it has a lot more material on it. Here is the reference:

[QUOTE]OTs get peculiar. They get fitful. They get moody. I remember one time about twelve trillion years ago. It was, some comedian on a stage, vast theater, pulled a gag about create and that sort of thing, and made a wisecrack of one kind or
another. An OT had to be subdued-he was up in the box, alongside the royal box, and he had to be subdued, one way or the other, but not till after he had torn down all the curtains and knocked down a four or five hundred-ton chandelier on the assembled meat-body multitude. Why?. It just keyed him in. What could they do about it? Turn a sleep light on him and tell him to get solid and take him down to the hospital. That was their total—total ability to put this boy back together again. I consider it fascinating; I know-I was there. I was the guy they did it to.

http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientology%20Materials/Tapes&Lect%20chrono/6105a07%20Saint%20Hill%20Special%20Briefing%20Course%20Lectures/301-400%20PDF/6307C09_SHSBC-309_The_Free_Being.pdf



I don't claim to be one who knows everything about Scientology but I was in it for quite a few years so here are some of my thoughts on it. The Saint Hill Special Briefing Course, I'm pretty sure was intended only for advanced Scientologists who had studied related materials for years. It would be very easy for anyone to take one paragraph and get it out of context. It would be like getting a book on Ocean Navigation, reading a page and then assuming I could sail the seven seas.

I believe what LRH was speaking of about was thetans/Ot's/spirit ...our infinite selves existing multi-dimensionally and sometimes making a mess of things. I always wondered myself why an infinite being would play the game of limitation by becoming a physical body if it were completely satisfied where it was at. I don't know maybe our infinite selves become bored too.:bored::bored::bored::bored::bored::bored::bored::bored::bored:
I suggest at least reading the entire link slowly with an open mind and I think that you will find He was using Himself as an example in the paragraph in question. I think many here on Avalon can relate to what Hubbard is saying.

I only knew one OT, this person was a OT-7 I believe which at that time was about as high as it got anyway this person was one of the most intelligent, caring and capable people I've ever known, I have absolutely nothing but good to say about this person and still count them as a friend. I haven't seen them in years and wish them the best.

I don't personally like what Scientology has become due to trying to make a profit but suggest that a lot of it has been misinterpreted, some of it I don't agree with myself. I do feel LRH had good intentions.....Thank you so much cuitlahuac for providing the link.

I think eventually we all come to the recognition that our best guide is our own true self.....Former Scientology staffer and now Avalonian.....Grizz


Ubi dubium ibi libertas

[Lcam88]

I consider my self more of a bystander at this forum, I have read for years but I prefer to stay in the background and hardly ever post. I find it very difficult to share idea's openly with people claiming to be the most open minded, and I don't just mean people here, I find this is a common trait among evolved beings everywhere. As they evolve and walk THEIR path, they think that their way is the only way and that is it. I claim this to be the death of intelligence. Once you claim you know or understand, that is a clear indication that you surely do not. That is the only thing I can say for certain. The funny thing is, you will never be called out by people that understand this. You will always be called out by those with a belief system, no matter what the B.S (belief system) is.

I see a lot of negativity through out many threads here towards this matter, I find it almost comical. People fail to forget that we all have a perspective of the "same thing". How you describe it, honor it, get there, is all going to be personal. Look at the 4 gospels, all saw the same thing yet are completely different. If I asked us all to watch the same movie and to write a paper about it, every single one would be different. We watched the same movie didn't we? And taking it even further, you would know right away readings another paper if they really saw the movie or are just making it up. It might be completely different in how its written, but you would know right away that it was written by someone who watched the movie. Given that you watched the movie also.....

For all those negative comments, the only thing that has stood out to me this whole time was. This man, L Ron, he watched the movie. It is beyond clear to anyone else who has watched the movie. And it is so close to disciplines that those who are attacking probably embrace and don't even realize! I was absolutely blown away with how much this had in common with Buddhism and the teachings of the Buddha. It was the same concepts and teachings with different words. And I am not talking watered down Buddhism, but from the original teachings.

The Buddha taught in Pali, it is now a dead language. He taught a method of meditation called Vipassana. In pali the word basically means "as things are". It is the method he used to gain liberation. In this method we do not vocalize or visualize, we observe the body as it is, not as we want it to be. What is amazing about this method is that it does not matter who you are, how much money you were born with, what shape you are in, your age, faith, creed and so. It uses sensation in the body and the breath. This is something we all have. It doesn't matter what your faith is, you can still practice vapassana. You have a body and can feel it.

The great realization of the Buddha was HOW to break free. He realized that we are stuck here because we form likes and dislikes about experiences. We have aversion and negativity for things we don't like and cling and crave for the positive things. Our soul is an accumulation of these, they are called saṅkhāra's in Pali. We are forming saṅkhāra's with almost every thought at this point, our minds have spiraled out of control and its getting to the point where we are saṅkhāra creating mashines. This makes us denser and denser.

He gave a way to live and adhere by because if you lived by that way. If would be very easy to maintain a life where you are not creating new saṅkhāra's. If you are creating new saṅkhāra's, then the old ones can not come to the surface to be processed. You have a kagillion just in this life, let alone the accumulation of all your lives saṅkhāra's.

The bhudda understood the mind and body connection and realized that if you stop creating saṅkhāra's and sat in meditation the old saṅkhāra's will start to come to the surface one by one. If we can sit there and let them arise so they can just pass away, we can process through these and clear them one by one. When we cleared out all of our saṅkhāra's, we were a liberated soul. It can take many life times to process through all of these. Some saṅkhāra's might take a second to process, others might takes years to fully let go of in meditation.

During vipassana meditations you do not move or change hand positions for the full sitting. I sit for an hour at a time. Once you sit and choose your position, it must be kept fully for the full sitting. At first this seems insane and impossible but this is where the teaching of the Buddha is so special. He taught us that these sensations in the body are not really pain, they are saṅkhāra's rising to the surface. This becomes clear to someone who uses vipassana regularly. At first you think that the sensation in your back or your leg is from how you are sitting. Seems logical. But if you sit and do not move, the sensation will leave and go to another spot completely. If it was because of how you were sitting, why did it change if you didn't move? As you progress these sensations will no longer be just feelings in your body, they will be accompanied by memories and experiences.

By letting these sensations come to the surface and not react, only experience them, we can let them rise and pass away. Thus processing through our stored database of saṅkhāra's. These might be things we formed many lives ago, or 5 minutes ago when we said "oh i wish I had some pie". Even the bliss in meditation is a trap. If the hour meditation is over and you dont get up because you are in the bliss, you are just creating saṅkhāra's on the positive spectrum. As you are clinging and craving for the experience of bliss. Same for the opposite. If your back is hurting and when the hour meditation ends you jump up as fast as you can, you have adversion and negativity for the experiene. You are creating saṅkhāra's but on the negative end. It is important to be able to experience without attachment.

To me, what the Buddha taught, what I just explained, is exactly what L ron is saying and teaching but in a slightly different way and terms. Instead of self auditing that is done with vipassana, it is done with a partner in Scientology. This whole experience lately learning about what L ron really taught has opened my eyes. I was completely blown away. Here is a man who I completely blew off and thought was insane, yet teaches a method and discipline that is almost identical to the one I practiced. That I bet a lot who bash Scientology practice and don't even realize they are practicing the same art just taught by two different teachers who had two different perspectives of the same thing. How silly. I was just misinformed. I can see why this method of processing would be effective in a western culture. Each discipline is catering to its audience respectively to give the best results. We always point fingers at things that are different yet fail to realize that at the core, it was actually the same thing. How human of us, where there is one, were bound to divide it right in two.....

+1 Worth quoting!

I will risk creating one more saṅkhāra here as I feel compelled to say a few words about the bolded part.

Understanding is an evolution that grows with a person. I feel that one should always be willing to modify or even discart flawed understandings as a part of growth when new experiences presents such an opportunity. Discussing an idea or even challenging it, is sometimes necessary for growth, at least up to a certain point when one learns to think for them-self. In a way, the insistence of claiming to know or understand is a measure of resistance one has towards their own growth.

That said, I find that I sometimes seek validation from other who don't necessarily share the same basis or reference points. I often end up expanding my own understandings in these cases, and that is why I engage people in discussions.

[gralsfighter]

As they evolve and walk THEIR path, they think that their way is the only way and that is it.

As they involve and walk their path from their Guru, Baba, Founder etc. they think that their way is the only way and that is it.

its risky to swap from one Beliefsystem to another in the course of instruction. The harddisk is formatted. You had to get the basics in. You had to get a working way.

when they are at home they can see all the ways going up to the mountain

[Grizz Griswold]

As they evolve and walk THEIR path, they think that their way is the only way and that is it.

As they involve and walk their path from their Guru, Baba, Founder etc. they think that their way is the only way and that is it.

its risky to swap from one Beliefsystem to another in the course of instruction. The harddisk is formatted. You had to get the basics in. You had to get a working way.

when they are at home they can see all the ways going up to the mountain


When i was in Scientology a few years ago, i would mention things like' "you know Scientology
and Buddism and even A Course in Miracles seem to be almost the same" but i was told by the Executive Director and rather
harshly no it's not the same and if you screw around with that stuff you'll mess up your case.....

i was told as a staff member you use the tech exactly only as it is or you can get your case or the
people you audit into deep dodo.....now here on Avalon iv'e read some of Bill Ryans post and the techniques
he gets benefit from seem to be totally different....i suspected this was true even as the E.D. was trying
to keep me in line.

Your last sentence....when they are at home they can see all the ways going up to the mountain.......
i believe to be exactly true .....everything is generalized and all related.

Blessings....barry

[gralsfighter]

.....the E.D. was trying to keep me in line.


YES, they WANT slaves with a huge amount of money . and its not okay that they force on you what you should do by yourself in a more intelligent way.

Its the same in every beliefsystem.
one cant erase an engramm when he is banning a damon . That would blew is secure space away.
you had to do Tai Chi exercises in a very perfect way. you can not mix it with skiing exercises.

Sometimes you had to open a session with "hey, you bloody motherf..... How are you today?" And you have his attention, his ARC, his respect and his willingness to get the job done.
There you follow the basics and not the matrix.

LOL thats may beliefsystem....

gralsfighter

[Grizz Griswold]

.....the E.D. was trying to keep me in line.


YES, they WANT slaves with a huge amount of money . and its not okay that they force on you what you should do by yourself in a more intelligent way.

Its the same in every beliefsystem.
one cant erase an engramm when he is banning a damon . That would blew is secure space away.
you had to do Tai Chi exercises in a very perfect way. you can not mix it with skiing exercises.

Sometimes you had to open a session with "hey, you bloody motherf..... How are you today?" And you have his attention, his ARC, his respect and his willingness to get the job done.
There you follow the basics and not the matrix.

LOL thats may beliefsystem....

gralsfighter

Scientology certainly does have it's own belief system it's own construct.......this is the only way, belief.

Recently i sent a PM to Bill Ryan because i thought he was doing self auditing...Because we were taught it can't
be done...you would wind up in a mental institution, ruin your case.

What Bill told me was something I'd never heard of before....sometimes past lives remembrances were
coming to him spontaneously...from what i was told as a staff member, this was impossible.
Well you learn something new every day don't you?.....i was relieved it wasn't all in that box they had been trying to sell me.
Maybe Bill can bring that PM over.

Best wishes

barry

[CarlS]

The following is the procedure of the original 1950 “Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health.” I recommend watching the video “How to use Dianetics” or reading at least the first chapter of the book before giving a session to someone but it is not required.

Cliff note version: The mind (not the brain) is composed of two parts. The normal, analytical mind and the reactive mind. To understand the reactive mind, I will first describe the analytical mind. You, the immortal spirit, which has had hundreds of billions of lifetimes and drives the body (similar to a human driving a car), has a mind which is basically a suitcase of pictures you collect lifetime after lifetime.

You make decisions but if you want, you can activate the mind and look at pictures you have taken in the past as experience to improve the success of the decision (but it is unnecessary since you need not recreate a picture of a cat to know what a cat is). The mind was designed to take 25 pictures per second including all perceptions including what is seen, heard, felt, thought and all other 64 plus perceptions (just because you are not aware of electro-magnetic waves around you, the mind still records their action).

The reactive mind stores these pictures when the analytical mind is turned off, fully or partially. Physical pain (and thus emotional pain) to a lesser or greater degree, turns off the analytical mind, depending on the magnitude.

This may have been designed as a survival mechanism for animals or as an enslaving mechanism for spiritual beings (long explanation, refer to the book). Nonetheless, the being has natural access to reactive mind recordings.

One person is the counselor (auditor, which means “to listen) and one is the receiver of the counseling (preclear. When a person has eliminated the stimuli-response mechanism of the reactive mind, one is considered “clear,” comparable to bodhi).

Simply follow the following procedure:

1. Assure preclear will know everything that happens. The session is done with you and your preclear seated across from each other. In the first step you assure the preclear about what will occur during the session. You can tell the preclear the following:
“We will begin the session now. You will remain aware of everything which goes on. You will able to remember everything that happens here. You can pull yourself out of anything which you get into if you don’t like it,”

2. Have the preclear close their eyes. Tell the preclear, “Close your eyes.”

3. Install the canceller. Tell the preclear, “In the future, when I utter the word ‘cancelled,’ everything I have said to you while you are in a therapy session will be cancelled and will have no force with you.” Make sue the preclear understands this.

4. Return the preclear to a period in the past. Tell the preclear you will begin by running an incident from their past that the preclear feels they can comfortably face. You can say something like: “We’re going to find as incident in your life of which you have an exact record. Then by sending you through it at the moment it happened several times, we’re going to reduce it.”

“Locate an incident of relatively recent emotional pain which you can comfortably face and tell me when you are there.”

When he/she has located one, tell them: “Go to the beginning of that incident and tell me when you are there.”

(Note: After the preclear has spent many sessions reducing emotional pain incidents, begin running relatively early physical pain incidents: “Locate an incident of relatively early physical pain which you can comfortably face and tell me when you are there.” The auditor could also just ask a general command “Locate an incident you can comfortable face and tell me when you are there”).

5. When they respond, say: “Go through the incident and say what is happening as you go along.”

6. “Go back to the beginning and go over it. Pick up whatever addition data you can contact.” If the preclear stops moving through the incident, say “Continue.”

When the preclear gets to the end the incident, ask: “Is there an earlier beginning to this incident?” If they say yes: “Move to the new beginning of the incident and tell me what is happening as you move through to the end.” If they say no, repeat 6a.

Continue to run the incident until the preclear is cheerful about.

If the preclear has run through the incident many times without any new information and they have not become cheerful about the incident, ask “Is there an earlier, similar incident?” If they say yes: “Move to the earlier, similar incident and tell me when you are there.” When they do, repeat procedure Step 5 and Step 6.

When the preclear has become cheerful about the incident, you may run another incident if there is enough time.

To end the session:

7. “I will be ending the session shortly. Come to present time.”

8. “Are you in present time?”

9. “Cancelled.”

10. “When I count from 5 to 1 and snap my fingers you will feel alert. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 (snap).

“End of session.” If the preclear has not yet done so, tell them to open their eyes.

As an auditor, there are guidelines you must follow to ensure good results:

Stick to the commands and NEVER add personal commentary, opinions, suggestions, etcetera, even if the preclear asks. Never refute any information the preclear gives you (for example, if you ask for an earlier, similar incident and the preclear goes to a past life, treat it the same as an earlier, this-lifetime incident. Don’t say “I don’t believe in past lives”).

Don’t audit a preclear that is tired or hungry. Don’t audit a preclear who has had drugs the past week or alcohol the past 24 hours.

Sometimes running incidents can restimulate an auditor who is not formally trained. The main symptom of this is sleepiness. In session, if your preclear discovers you are not fully alert and interested, they will no longer want you to be their auditor. The following drills will help:

Two students sit facing each other with their eyes closed. The drill ends when both students can sit for an extended period without movement or drowsiness.

A student and coach face each other with eyes open. The drill ends when the student can confront the coach for at least two hours without movement, excessive blinking, or loss of attention.

I do recommend reading all of “Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health” for both the auditor and the preclear as it will markedly improve both people’s success.

[Hervé]

For the individuals having some experience with the Dianetics theory and procedures, the following will "talk" to them:

Émile Coué (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89mile_Cou%C3%A9)

http://www.psychomaster.com/books/emile/

http://nsm04.casimages.com/img/2010/11/11//101111092147544507099532.jpg

(1857-1926) Émile Coué, a physician formulated the Laws of Suggestion. He is also known for encouraging his patients to say to themselves 20-30 times each night before going to sleep, “Everyday in every way, I am getting better and better”. He also discovered that when giving patients their medicine and delivering positive suggestion at the same time, proved to be a more effective cure than prescribing medicine alone. He eventually abandoned hypnosis in favour of just using positive suggestion and he thought that the hypnotic state impaired the efficiency of the suggestion.

[...]

If you have really made the autosuggestion, that is to say, if your unconscious has assimilated the idea that you have presented to it, you are astonished to see the thing you have thought come to pass. (Note that it is the property of ideas autosuggested to exist within us unrecognized, and we can only know of their existence by the effect they produce.) But above all, and this is an essential point, the will must not be brought into play in practising autosuggestion; for, if it is not in agreement with the imagination, if one thinks: "I will make such and such a thing happen", and the imagination says: "You are willing it, but it is not going to be", not only does one not obtain what one wants, but even exactly the reverse is brought about.

This remark is of capital importance, and explains why results are so unsatisfactory when, in treating moral ailments, one strives to re-educate the will. It is the training of the imagination which is necessary, and it is thanks to this shade of difference that my method has often succeeded where others -- and those not the least considered -- have failed. From the numerous experiments that I have made daily for twenty years, and which I have examined with minute care, I have been able to deduct the following conclusions which I have summed up as laws:

1. When the will and the imagination are antagonistic, it is always the imagination which wins, without any exception.

2. In the conflict between the will and the imagination, the force of the imagination is in direct ratio to the square of the will.

3. When the will and the imagination are in agreement, one does not add to the other, but one is multiplied by the other.

4. The imagination can be directed.

(The expressions "In direct ratio to the square of the will" and "Is multiplied by" are not rigorously exact. They are simply illustrations destined to make my meaning clearer.)

After what has just been said it would seem that nobody ought to be ill. That is quite true. Every illness, whatever it may be, can yield to autosuggestion, daring and unlikely as my statement may seem; I do not say does always yield, but can yield, which is a different thing.
But in order to lead people to practice conscious autosuggestion they must be taught how, just as they are taught to read or write or play the piano.

Autosuggestion is, as I said above, an instrument that we possess at birth, and with which we play unconsciously all our life, as a baby plays with its rattle. It is however a dangerous instrument; it can wound or even kill you if you handle it imprudently and unconsciously. It can on the contrary save your life when you know how to employ it consciously. One can say of it as Aesop said of the tongue: "It is at the same time the best and the worst thing in the world".
I am now going to show you how everyone can profit by the beneficent action of autosuggestion consciously applied. In saying "every one", I exaggerate a little, for there are two classes of persons in whom it is difficult to arouse conscious autosuggestion:

1. The mentally undeveloped who are not capable of understanding what you say to them.

2. Those who are unwilling to understand.

[...]

[regnak]

Scientology is a body of beliefs and related practices created by American science fiction author L. Ron Hubbard, who lived from 1911 until 1986

In 1986, Hubbard died after years in hiding. David Miscavige emerged as leader of Church of Scientology, while many others practice Scientology independently

Is Scientology good or bad ?:shielddeflect:

===

[ Mod-edit: I merged your new query in with an existing, excellent, thread on this very topic. This topic has been extensively discussed here, and new members might find a lot of interesting answers to good questions. -- Paul. ]

[Wide-Eyed]

Oh boy, did i throw the baby out with the bathwater. having previously dismissed Scientology as a dangerous cult, I have never read this book......I am also about 25% of the way through it (slow readers eh Gripeaper?) but so far I am blown away. I am resonating and clashing with the book all over. Its such a powerful book, that if I had a hard copy I would be VERY careful where I kept it. BTW I also sensed that there is a protective prescence in the book- I was fleetingly reminded of the minders around a triad boss in some Hong Kong movie.

So far i find:

The description of and action of engrams corresponds exactly with the buddhist explanation of kamma, particularly karmic seeds;
The use of the terms conscious and unconscious corresponds exactly (and predates) Eckhart Tolle's use of the words (and in particular the Pain Body, which is exactly the engram);
I'm not convinced about the four survival aims, or about the descriptions of pain and pleasure (I tend to side with the Buddha on this, and see pleasure and pain as pretty much the same.)

What intrigues me most however, is the description of how engrams are passed to us via the fertilized egg; this confirms what I have read but not understood from tibetan buddhism (via bonpo) that we are literally the continuation of our parents, and puts a whole new slant on the concept of rebirth (for me)- remember what Exodus said about the sins [errors] of the fathers [and mothers]:

''visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation."

Fantastic post, as you can see from the above, its really got me buzzing here!!

Love, bram

Ditto I stumbled bumbbbled fummbled in to a latter LRH thread and BR's repost of this thread with Dianetics- Brilliant and generous .

[Bluegreen]

Newbies and veterans alike may get a chuckle or a gasp (or both) from ex-Scientologist and whistleblower Karen de la Carriere's massive documentation of Scientology financial shenanigans on the website Operation Clambake. This coming from one of the few humans alive today who actually worked with L Ron Hubbard. To think that the IRS would be "unaware" of this defies credulity ie inurement etc. I don't know, I don't understand it. Prominent ex Arnie Lerma may be lurking and could possibly reveal more ...

Offered of course
"For Entertainment Purposes Only"
;)

Scientology SCAM "IAS" FRAUD stockpiling $$$ & MONEY
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=215741

[Wide-Eyed]

Newbies and veterans alike may get a chuckle or a gasp (or both) from ex-Scientologist Karen de la Carriere's massive documentation of Scientology financial shenanigans on the website Operation Clambake. To think that the IRS would be "unaware" of this defies credulity ie inurement etc. I don't know, I don't understand it. Prominent ex Arnie Lerma may be lurking and could possibly reveal more ...

Offered of course
"For Entertainment Purposes Only"
;)

Scientology SCAM "IAS" FRAUD stockpiling $$$ & MONEY
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=215741

http://sc-i-r-s-ology.freiescientologen.de/rvtimeline/index.html- a definite newbie here in regards to LRH but check Cuitahiluac's link posted it details Government take over and IRS handy work on COS .

[cuitlahuac]

-------

The Organization came later, after Hubbard was inundated with questions and requests for further information. He founded scientology (literally: "the science of knowing how to know") as protection from the American Medical Association, who wanted to hang Hubbard from the highest tree for "practicing psychotherapy without a license".

...

Hubbard (LRH) was clearly a flawed man -- and many great people are. I am not qualified to judge him as a person or as a family man: only assess his legacy. My consideration of his legacy does not include the Church itself, which grew to became a huge aberration.

...

I'll pause here, and welcome all and any questions. I'll undertake to answer them all as best I can. I can maybe help interpret some (but not all!) of the story that Jim is trying to recount, and will do my best, bearing in mind that any interpretation of Jim's experience may not be fully correct. (I do not know him personally, but feel -- as do many others -- that he's trying to tell us something important. Don't throw away the mud without sifting it through for diamonds first.)
:)

Thanks a lot Bill.

I would like to ask first, who is "Jim" and what he's trying to recount?

Second, of course, Hubbard's legacy is the technology, but administration and ethics technology are its protectors. If the "Organization" became to be a "huge aberration" is explained by the fact that any kind of organization in the hands of criminals (the NWO takeover team now controlling Church of Scientology) will be a "huge aberration". A comparison could be: a gun is pro survival in the hands of well trained policeman educated to protect the people. A gun in the hands of a thieve is a most dangerous thing.

And third. The organization came latter. Of course, in the 1950's it was to handle the big amount of people demanding Dianetics. That organization was attacked and destroyed by the then NWO, AMA, APA and WFMH (World Federation of Mental Health) and their puppet master banking elites.

The next organization was that of Scientology, including the Sea Organization (with its own track of "past lives"). According to Hubbard, this Scientology organization has its own "past live" indicating that it was furnished from an organization that was in control of a whole galaxy. I think those principles will never be a "huge aberration".

Edit: If this "galaxy administrative technology" was finally taken by the enemy, it indicates and suggests what kind of "enemy" really took over Scientology in 1982.

Thanks for the thread.

[cuitlahuac]

80 trillion years ago there was a group of people call the peace bringers ... they were so powerful that everywhere they went they brought peace .. There was another group that were war mongers ... and they were a bit of trouble but the peace bringers thought that could train them and maybe they would change to the better ... but these war mongers decided to infiltrate and steal the tech and use is to try to take over the system ... and many wars happened


We are on a prison planet ... it took them billions of years to create this ... NO ONE ESCAPES from a prison planet ... NO ONE until Siddhartha Gautama Buddha did 2500 years ago ... any religion that tells you that you have no power and only god has power and any other power is the devil will never get you off this planet
it takes a being with a lot of power to get off this planet ... and giving all your power to a god that someone says exists isn't going to get you off the planet.

these are control religions ... I went back to see Christ on the Cross .. and started running the session myself using the class 8 auditor and her meter to do it.

I got back there ... Christ looked like he was in a very lot of pain ... I decided to go inside his body and see what was happening and a force a very big force was hitting me when I was in his body .. it was too much and I could not stay inside the body .. I got out and I saw a huge oval of gold light in front of him ... I thought he was making it .... I followed the light into the sky and it was a UFO ... and that UFO was hitting Christ with some kind of beam ... and it was flooding the crowd with pictures to create a future dark age ... I yelled ... it was a trick ... it was a trick ... it was a trick ...


by the way ... the force fields that trapped us to this planet have been removed ... by the andromedians . ... if you die this time you can go home ... where ;ever that was .... so future?? ... i am staying here ... this place will be the new beginning for the entire universe and when it is safe for them to come down they will teach us and we will be new light of this universe ... why because we were the gods they sent here and to them we are still looked at as royalty and they are trying to free us

I want to thank this porst by WEAREONE. This quotes in red just made me remember or live again the athmosphere of 1979 when I had 2 years in Scientology. There was a clear sense of team effort that we were now aware of who we were, even if we didn't know all of our past. We were aware of the way ahead, the restoration of our capabilities to create good and aesthetic universes. And we knew we were immortal spiritual beings and that Earth was the place to heal this universe.

The executive directors (Operating Thetans, that is, spiritual beings able to operate in the physical universe without the need of a body) spoke constantly of this kind of things, even to "green" (new) public. They told us that there was also other kind of public (unseen spiritual beings) listening to their conferences.

Thanks Jimini.

Edit: I don't know if its true what Jimmini tells, but I know that this is the kind of phenomena people do in auditing (Scientology counseling or done "solo").

[Bill Ryan]

I would like to ask first, who is "Jim" and what he's trying to recount?



Jim is jiminii (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?16940-jiminii), an Avalon member who had a small amount of scientology experience, reported a large number of major, intuitive perceptions, and (and I don't mean this in any way unkindly) just wasn't a very effective or clear communicator in text form.

One of the biggest impediments that many people with scientology experience have — whether it's a lot or a little — is the seeming inability to communicate very well in plain English. It's really a huge problem, and it's often a little hard for me to understand. Many of them have simply spent way too much time only talking with people with similar experiences. The result usually pushes others away.

One of the FIRST benefits of any kind of personal development process, whatever it is, should be being able to put yourself in the other person's shoes. Talking AT people, using language they're unlikely to understand, just doesn't work.

That's a useful note, maybe, for anyone posting on this thread. Please don't use terms that aren't plain English!

There are ALWAYS easy ways to explain or present interesting metaphysical concepts, especially to members with the level of spiritual awareness that most forum members already have. Use the language THEY already know... not your own, which they may not. :)

[Important, also (see the post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-and-Ron-s-Org&p=1039235&viewfull=1#post1039235) immediately above): calling 'scientology directors' 'Operating Thetans' simply isn't true — nowhere remotely close. These days, they're closed-minded, cruel, obsessed, unintelligent, extremely controlling, and even more unaware. Even back in the late 1970s, that was hardly true... or else the 1982 final takeover, the components of which were in place long prior, wouldn't have happened. It'd have been spotted and handled way earlier. But the entire organization was taken down, and thousands of good people just jumped ship. All of those people were still on their journey... no-one had at that point 'arrived' anywhere at all.]

[cuitlahuac]

[Important, also (see the post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-and-Ron-s-Org&p=1039235&viewfull=1#post1039235) immediately above): calling 'scientology directors' 'Operating Thetans' simply isn't true — nowhere remotely close. These days, they're closed-minded, cruel, obsessed, unintelligent, extremely controlling, and even more unaware. Even back in the late 1970s, that was hardly true... or else the 1982 final takeover, the components of which were in place long prior, wouldn't have happened. It'd have been spotted and handled way earlier. But the entire organization was taken down, and thousands of good people just jumped ship. All of those people were still on their journey... no-one had at that point 'arrived' anywhere at all.]


Thanks Bill for the clarifications. Of course, it's very important in Scientology and in fact the data is in all Scn books that technical terms must be defined.

And your clarification on the OT directors is very pertinent. In 1979, the directors of mexican orgs were OTs (Operating Thetans, spiritual beings able to operate in the physical universe without the need of a body). Carlos González (which I knew) was OT VII (at that time OT VII, 'boosting intention' was done prior to OT III, the wall of fire) and there was the Garcías, Ricardo and his brother, also OTs. There was Sergio Lan also OT. They had gone OT in the USA in the early 70's to oppen orgs in mexico in the mid 70's. None turned out to be anti social as far as I know. But you are right, the core of the anti social beings and those placed in position (sleepers) prior to the takeover in 1982 were close to Hubbard, like Norman Starkey for example. In fact, prior to the takeover in Mexico, these OT Executive Directors were sistematically taken down and excommunicated, to be replaced by people directly from the street or clearly psychopathic. Since then, the independence of the mexican orgs was replaced by the dictators from International Management.

Edit: In the early 80's, the takeover was not clearly spotted but was sure felt by the Mexican OT Directors and by everybody. There was a sense of impending doom in all Scientology events in México. You could see that in the face of the Executive Directors (EDs). Marie Sue (Hubbard's wife) was put in jail, and after 1982, there was a letter sent to mexican OTs (in spanish) explaining them that Hubbard was dead and the government of the USA and his "handlers" had taken Scientology. I was in Central Sea Org org (Continental Liaison Office CLO) in 1983 in Mexico city and saw the letter, but I was not permitted to read it by my senior (sleeper takeover teams), even though I was in charge of filling them.

In 1982, the mexican OTs knew that there was a plan by the "marcabians" (extraterrestrial civilization enslaving this planet) to come here and take the planet over starting with Scientology. There was a frantic effort then to send lots of people to get trained as auditors of Scientology (many financed by Marta Igareda). When the dust settled, the world had changed to what it is today.

Mexican orgs in late 70's:

ODD (Organización de Dianética) Director Carlos González OT VII
ITD (Instituto Tecnológico de Dianética) Director Sergio Lán, OT
ACD (Asociación Cultural Dianética) Director Roberto García
IFAs (Instituto de Filosofía Aplicada) Director Ricardo Garcia OT.

New Edit: In the late 70's, the expansion of Scientology in Latin America surpassed that of the USA under the leadership of Ricardo García. After 1982 (when the OT EDs were taken down, Scn shrinked even today to few cities, Mexico, Argentina and Venezuela.

[cuitlahuac]

My take on Jiminii's weather modification "abilities".

Jiminii states earlier that the 7 year drought in the USA was a result of his postulate (consideration or thought) that it would be nice if there were very sunny days, so that he could sell lots of icecreams.

Then Jiminii states that the drought ended when he remembered and de-activated that consideration. In other words, he as-issed it (as-iss, to look at something, in this case a consideration, exactly as it is in which moment the thing or consideration disappears).

First, we need to know what a consideration or postulate is: "POSTULATE, in Scn the word postulate means to cause a thinkingness or consideration. It is a specially applied word and is defined as causative thinkingness. (Fundamentals of Thought, p. 71)". Jiminii made a postulate, a causative thinking and the effectiveness of those postulates depend also in the horse power of the person as a spiritual being.

Second, there are several agencies working on the climate of the USA. One of them is the shadow government, who uses weather modification technology as a weapon.

Third, I read (probably in the Tom Bearden webpage) that ETs are also controlling the weather of the USA. They use an energy called "Orgon" to keep great parts of the USA as deserts. Otherwise, those areas would be green.

Now, my take is that Jiminii made his postulate "I want sunny days so that I can sell lots of my icecreams." :ROFL: Then the shadow US government and the ETs controlling the weather could have find that Jiminii's postulate was more powerful than their technologies. They could have said: "Gee!! This guy is singlehandedly creating a drought on most of the USA..." and their bosses could have said: "well, leave that guy alone and go on with that as long as he doesn't interfere with our desertification agenda"... :ROFL:

So, after 7 years Jiminii learns that CoS OTs are postulating "rain" in California, and Jim joins them, but Jim's postulates for "rain" doesn't work because, according to Scientology, his previous postulate "sunny days" is still "working" and is senior to latter postulates (making rain). Now Jiminii remembers the datum that you have to cancel a previous postulate opposing a new one, otherwise your postulates are not going to work and are going to become a mess.

So, Jiminii finds and cancels his "sunny days" postulate and "THE HEAVENS POUR DOWN...." :ROFL: This was probably compounded with the efforts of many people to make it rain in California, including the CoS OTs.

Maybe the guys in the shadow US government controlling the weather and the "desertification agenda" ETs woke up in shock, wondering "what happened"! and some might have been fired or severely punished...

Anyway, that's my take on Jiminii's weather modification "abilities". I only want to pinpoint the "mechanics" of what and who really controls the weather, including Jiminii's powerful postulates... :ROFL:

My earnest advice to Jiminii is that he learns Scientology Ethics technology fast, in order for him to use his postulate horsepower wisely and so become more able at that. Otherwise, if he uses it unwisely or harmfully, he could loose his capabilities.

:bigsmile:

Edit: We need to protect Jiminii, the US shadow government is looking for people to train in their CIA "super-soldier" booth camp programs.

Additional edit: In 1978, there were lots of talk on mexican OTs creating "sunny days", so that the Dianetica events went down smoothly. And there were no droughts afterwards...


http://orig02.deviantart.net/5012/f/2011/078/b/e/rofl__by_angel91701-d3c0qpy.jpg


Last edit to include post:


Posted by jiminii
right that is the way to do it ,... people who are too serious can't effect anything ... there is too much effort ... you know they want me to prove the weather ,.. and if I do ,.. it would be like every time I did before.... as soon as you do it ... they will say it was going to happen anyway ... but when the rain stopped between the two lights the girl shut up ... she couldn't say anything after that ,.. but those are rare .. you almost have to be in such a jokingly light mood because the thoughts that work are the light ones ... just like this other post of a baby making weather .. that baby has no thought that it can't be done ,.. no counter intention ,.,. just puts it there .. but people with a lot of losses will not believe it ... just the fact that you doubt it and disbelieve it alone will not make it happen

you have to read the book

I put up a thought in Los angeles to make no rain and keep it hot so I could sell ice cream on my ice cream truck ,and a few years later I wasn't even doing the ice cream truck .. and maybe it is about 1978 and they have news saying they've had a 7 year drought and they will allocating all the water in Los Angeles and they will start some government program to manage the water ... I suddenly thought "OMG ... I stopped the rain" I put out my thoughts to cancel the stop ." ... the rain started up and it was going until around january ... and I was living with an OT 2 [OT 2: Confidential level 2 of the Scientology advanced levels.]... and I told him "we have enough rain I am going to stop it now"
he said "no we still need more ... " and he is comparing the rain to mid east not same like the Los angeles being in a desert "
I said "no I am stopping the rain tonight"
well I don't have the label of being an OT because they never let me attest to it . so he assumes I have no power at all.
he says "me and a bunch of ot's are postulating rain"
I said "it will stop tonight"
the weather forecast was heavy rain that night
that night the rain shifted and missed Los angeles completely
now this OT 2 complained for the next two weeks so I thought "ok you want to see rain?"
I started postulating rain ... no rain ... I pushed it harder ... no rain ... then harder .. no rain ... so I cogged " oh I forget to cancel the stop the rain postulate"
I canceled the stop and the rain came down and all of orange county is flooded the santa monica peers and coast lines are breaking up and all the land is falling on the the highway there ... all the houses in the hollywood hills are coming down the mountain .... and the canyons too ... and I tried to stop it and it only made it worse and whipped up the winds so hard I thought it too dangerous to try to sop it
so I said "just let it ride out .... don't put any more postulates there "
this ot 2 refused to talk to me about weather ever again


jim



Padmé: So let me get this clear, you caused hot weather for your own financial gain, then irresponsibly forgot you had, then messed up the process and so there were greater consequences for quite a while...

http://www.backyardchickens.com/content/type/61/id/6192071/width/100/height/400/flags/LL

look ... I am learning this stuff just like anyone else ... it is same like inelia with no experience

I picked weather because it was going to rain and I was on the road with no place to sleep

and I was just curious why the chant worked
until it stopped the rain between two lights ,., so then I wanted to know how that happened ,,, I knew it couldn't be a chant ... then i read the book and I practiced .. I never expected it would continue to stay hot ... especially 7 years .... and this body doesn't believe it anyway ,,,, so 7 years later I flip on the TV channel .. and there is a 7 year droubt ,, ,,, I tried to start the rain again
it wouldn't start ... again and again ...then I realized that it must have been started when I was on the ice cream truck ... so I cancel that thought and the rain started
this body gets surprised every time ... because I put out thoughts they happen ... this body doesn't believe it .. so I drop it .. but the thought didn't drop until I looked on the TV

now this is how thoughts work ... put up a thought you want rain .. and it works the same way for everyone ... so then we get rain .. now you want to stop the rain.. the second thought goes up against the first thought. and locks because they ar opposing thoughts ... no matter what you do you can't make the second thought work until you stop the first thought ...

but ... to stop the first thought you have to look at the exact time that you created the thought to make it vanish
some people need a meter to go back to the exact thought to make it vanish ,,, I don't ... I just look

so are you interested in making money?
not with weather ...
and you got some thought there that is stopping all your money and it won't go away ,.,
what do you do?
some people need a meter to go locate the thought that is stopping them from having money

do you want a job?
go back to the thoughts that are stopping you from getting a job

this is why everyone is having so much trouble living on this planet ,.. the cabal sets everything up to make everyone lose and get in lowered conditions and all these thoughts of yours start happening and next you know you are broke .. and no way out of it ... if you knew how to handle your thoughts you can make your life better

and if I can make the weather go the way I want ... and no one else changes it ,... then they don't believe they can change it ... so the weather will follow me ... if more people took more responsibility for the weather and learned how to manage like the buddhas in thailand .. you would get a more balance game to play .. the fact that you can't change the weather puts you in apathy about doing anything about the weather
get up to where you are cause over it .. and then we would probably be able to heat up HAARP enough to break it. These people are taking aiien tech and using it to hurt us and create famine ... if you had the ability to control the weather ... they wouldn't be able to do this
I am keeping the weather going fine over here ... where I can see what it is doing not somewhere else where I can't see it ... and may cause damage ... you have a responsibility to handle your own area just like I do .. if I were able to see outside this body .. I could handle it all .. but I don't, so maybe some others should get in there and learn it and take some responsibility themselves

jim

[cuitlahuac]

I know you secret admire of LRD Bill, mostly because of the his tech,/tools. It would be a disaster if only you started this subject, luckily Jim showed up.

I received 220 in patient, 600 out patient mental Institution's statistic for last week in my request.

-50 people in treatment patients claim they are hearing voices from Andromeda and Zeticuli galaxy 14 of them claiming they are the Mehdi( (Mesaya).

- 26 of them carry a Gene which provides supernatural power.

-10 of them in suicidal watch because of the their self exorcism.

-72 of them tried exorcism on their family member

-3 of them tried exorcism on random people .

Interesting part is out patient category :

32 of them was forensic requested for legal Incompetence 27 of them were found competent which leads them to the judicial system for abusing naive people for financial gain. This is only one week admission you guess the rest.;)


Psychiatry is pseudo science.

That not from critics of psychiatry but from the very psychiatrist that organized the creation of psychiatry's "diagnostic tool" the DSM 4.

http://www.integralhealthresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Screen-shot-2012-06-05-at-12.00.37-PM-300x168.png

“There are no objective tests in psychiatry, no X-ray, laboratory, or exam finding that says definitively that someone does or does not have a mental disorder.”
—Allen Frances, Former DSM-IV Task Force Chairman

Then Tangri, shall we put all psychiatrists into a institution? Shall you be included too? Under what category? "believing in psychiatric pseudo scientific dogmas?"

[cuitlahuac]

Scientology is a body of beliefs and related practices created by American science fiction author L. Ron Hubbard, who lived from 1911 until 1986

In 1986, Hubbard died after years in hiding. David Miscavige emerged as leader of Church of Scientology, while many others practice Scientology independently

Is Scientology good or bad ?:shielddeflect:


Universities are not teaching 21st century science. Most prestigious universities are 70 years behind schedule. Max Plank pinpointed the next area of research in physics in the 30's of last century. That area of research was consciousness. We can see this in his latest quotes like the one below:


I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.

- Max Plank, as quoted in The Observer (25 January 1931)

So far, only L. Ronald Hubbard has done research on the field of consciousness creating matter and universes. Many of it is contained in the Philadelphia Doctorate Course taped lectures.

It´s time to take Universities out of the dark ages of "matter is God" and into the "consciousness creates matter" paradigm. Scientology as developed by L. Ronald Hubbard is not only the continuation of research in Quantum Mechanics, as delineated by Max Plank, but is where science and spirituality meet, the science of a Golden Age.

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12348048_986191374774364_7614755733442528571_n.jpg?oh=bf478ef5e16e1f8d31122cc243d9f628&oe=57425793

[cuitlahuac]

Very well explained. Thanks a lot.

Quote:
Bill Ryan;

'Clear' is a technical term meaning (as a very loose summary) that you don't have any more engrams. See the 'Dianetics Picture Book', reposted below, for details. Hubbard's description in his early 1950 book 'Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health' was too optimistic in practice, though he was definitely aware of and striving for something real. 'Clear' does absolutely NOT mean that you're a perfect human being, or are not affected by other things.

Erasing all your engrams is a very valuable threshold to cross. But it's just a step along the way. It's not at all the end of the road. There's a LOT else in terms of unfinished business, accumulated through the millennia, that can drag one down and affect attitudes, beliefs, goals, behavior, your body, and just about everything else.

http://projectavalon.net/Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf
http://projectavalon.net/Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf

For various reasons too complex to go into here, after reaching 'Clear' as a threshold, one can then audit oneself rather than being dependent on another person to audit you. Although it's still nice, and sometimes easler, to talk to another person when figuring things out! But after 'Clear', 'solo auditing' becomes possible, and is encouraged.

One of the reasons why 'Clear' is not the end of the personal development road is that Planet Earth is absolutely crawling with entities of various kinds which stick to our souls and our bodies -- either directly, or attached at a kind of influencing distance. (All unsavory, but true.) There are two remedies for this:


Bolster ourselves up so that we are not affected by these external influences (and they are external, inasmuch as they are not within ourselves as beings).
Handle and free the entities that are focused on ourselves. (And, if we wish, we can free the entities that are focused on others. This is a kind of part of the Bodhisattva function. If we can help to liberate others, then some people choose to do so.)


Some people maintain that the entity situation on the planet isn't real, and hold a viewpoint of denial about this entire edifice of stuff -- the reality of which any shaman worth their salt over the last several thousand years knows a great deal about, and can confirm. The Buddhists know all about it, too: they call them "Angry Ghosts". It's a good term.

But if someone does deny it, the entities don't care. (Or in some cases, they'll be delighted!) They'll go after you anyway -- especially if you're trying to change things on this planet, and help out a little. Hundreds of Avalonians know this well.

Hubbard himself spent quite a number of years chasing down the subject of 'Clear' - and famously made one or two wrong turns, and announcements that were too premature -- but after that was all straightened out, he discovered there was a lot more 'on the other side'.

Arguably, that was when his personality really started to change -- and it did, sometime in the 1960s. Now aware of what he was really up against (think of all the legions of Angry Ghosts in existence, and there are a lot of those!), he went into battle mode and took the 'Church' with him.

And, my personal opinion is that he made some bad decisions, and didn't handle it very well. But his research continued, and -- as I've said elsewhere, pretty much -- tens of thousands of others have benefited hugely because he was willing to do the trial-and-error experimental work on himself.
End Quote:

[cuitlahuac]

To: Bill Ryan,

Re: Copyrighted quote:

Bill, this texts below has copyright. I want to ask you if I can be given permission to post it, in the forums and Fb forums I participate, under the subject of Scientology.




Many thanks, and this is an important question. The issue of 'Clear' is easily (and forgivably) misunderstood.

'Clear' is a technical term meaning (as a very loose summary) that you don't have any more engrams. See the 'Dianetics Picture Book', reposted below, for details. Hubbard's description in his early 1950 book 'Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health' was too optimistic in practice, though he was definitely aware of and striving for something real. 'Clear' does absolutely NOT mean that you're a perfect human being, or are not affected by other things.

Erasing all your engrams is a very valuable threshold to cross. But it's just a step along the way. It's not at all the end of the road. There's a LOT else in terms of unfinished business, accumulated through the millennia, that can drag one down and affect attitudes, beliefs, goals, behavior, your body, and just about everything else.

http://projectavalon.net/Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf
http://projectavalon.net/Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf

For various reasons too complex to go into here, after reaching 'Clear' as a threshold, one can then audit oneself rather than being dependent on another person to audit you. Although it's still nice, and sometimes easler, to talk to another person when figuring things out! But after 'Clear', 'solo auditing' becomes possible, and is encouraged.

One of the reasons why 'Clear' is not the end of the personal development road is that Planet Earth is absolutely crawling with entities of various kinds which stick to our souls and our bodies -- either directly, or attached at a kind of influencing distance. (All unsavory, but true.) There are two remedies for this:


Bolster ourselves up so that we are not affected by these external influences (and they are external, inasmuch as they are not within ourselves as beings).
Handle and free the entities that are focused on ourselves. (And, if we wish, we can free the entities that are focused on others. This is a kind of part of the Bodhisattva function. If we can help to liberate others, then some people choose to do so.)


Some people maintain that the entity situation on the planet isn't real, and hold a viewpoint of denial about this entire edifice of stuff -- the reality of which any shaman worth their salt over the last several thousand years knows a great deal about, and can confirm. The Buddhists know all about it, too: they call them "Angry Ghosts". It's a good term.

But if someone does deny it, the entities don't care. (Or in some cases, they'll be delighted!) They'll go after you anyway -- especially if you're trying to change things on this planet, and help out a little. Hundreds of Avalonians know this well.

Hubbard himself spent quite a number of years chasing down the subject of 'Clear' - and famously made one or two wrong turns, and announcements that were too premature -- but after that was all straightened out, he discovered there was a lot more 'on the other side'.

Arguably, that was when his personality really started to change -- and it did, sometime in the 1960s. Now aware of what he was really up against (think of all the legions of Angry Ghosts in existence, and there are a lot of those!), he went into battle mode and took the 'Church' with him.

And, my personal opinion is that he made some bad decisions, and didn't handle it very well. But his research continued, and -- as I've said elsewhere, pretty much -- tens of thousands of others have benefited hugely because he was willing to do the trial-and-error experimental work on himself.

[Tangri]

I know you secret admire of LRD Bill, mostly because of the his tech,/tools. It would be a disaster if only you started this subject, luckily Jim showed up.

I received 220 in patient, 600 out patient mental Institution's statistic for last week in my request.

-50 people in treatment patients claim they are hearing voices from Andromeda and Zeticuli galaxy 14 of them claiming they are the Mehdi( (Mesaya).

- 26 of them carry a Gene which provides supernatural power.

-10 of them in suicidal watch because of the their self exorcism.

-72 of them tried exorcism on their family member

-3 of them tried exorcism on random people .

Interesting part is out patient category :

32 of them was forensic requested for legal Incompetence 27 of them were found competent which leads them to the judicial system for abusing naive people for financial gain. This is only one week admission you guess the rest.;)


Psychiatry is pseudo science.

That not from critics of psychiatry but from the very psychiatrist that organized the creation of psychiatry's "diagnostic tool" the DSM 4.

http://www.integralhealthresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Screen-shot-2012-06-05-at-12.00.37-PM-300x168.png

“There are no objective tests in psychiatry, no X-ray, laboratory, or exam finding that says definitively that someone does or does not have a mental disorder.”
—Allen Frances, Former DSM-IV Task Force Chairman

Then Tangri, shall we put all psychiatrists into a institution? Shall you be included too? Under what category? "believing in psychiatric pseudo scientific dogmas?"


I don’t normally comment on crank science that finds its way into my Inbox, but this evening I got a really good laugh. but lost interest writing on santilli's telescope at another thread, which is sad.

I want to point out that senile Demantia does not need DSM's categorised classification.

Maybe , my post needs intellectual, conceptual abilities to comprehend.

"Interesting part is out patient category :

32 of them was forensic requested for legal Incompetence 27 of them were found competent which leads them to the judicial system for abusing naive people for financial gain. This is only one week admission you guess the rest"


My Purpose to put that data out was, to show how charlatan healers try to use of psychiatric umbrella hoping to have an intellectual disability diagnosis for themselves to avoid a criminal trail. 27 of them found healthy and send back to court. 5 of them were diagnosed as an intellectual disability person which they avoid to be criminally charged.

You said "Then Tangri, shall we put all psychiatrists into a institution? Shall you be included too? Under what category? "believing in psychiatric pseudo scientific dogmas?"

Do I sense an insult in your statement or it is just my misunderstanding here?

Did I use OTlll , OTlV as a ridiculed icon to provoke you?

I am not a random people for your exorcism practise.

Even though Scientology using science word in their disguised agenda they are only immune for criminal charges because of religious acts.

[Bill Ryan]

Bill, this texts below has copyright. I want to ask you if I can be given permission to post it, in the forums and Fb forums I participate, under the subject of Scientology.



Thanks for asking! But it's not my permission to give. :)

As I wrote here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88056-Scientology-Science-for-a-Golden-Age&p=1035714&viewfull=1#post1035714),


I was the anonymous co-spearhead of the small handful of people that spent 6 months, 24/7, doing all that ourselves, back in 2004.

We digitized everything, and released it all on the net. I created and ran the temporary website — long since taken down by Church of Scientology lawyers — but by the time it was all forcibly closed down, the genie was out of the bottle for good.

So, this is all in the public domain now, and there's nothing the 'Church' can do about it.

Here's a link to post freely elsewhere:

http://ronsorg.org/resources/Scientology_Books/The_Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf

[cuitlahuac]

Thanks for asking! But it's not my permission to give. :)


Oh. I was meaning your text on "entities". Because at the bottom in the forum, it reads: "All Content Copyright © Project Avalon 2011".


One of the reasons why 'Clear' is not the end of the personal development road is that Planet Earth is absolutely crawling with entities of various kinds which stick to our souls and our bodies -- either directly, or attached at a kind of influencing distance. (All unsavory, but true.) There are two remedies for this:

1. Bolster ourselves up so that we are not affected by these external influences (and they are external, inasmuch as they are not within ourselves as beings).
2. Handle and free the entities that are focused on ourselves. (And, if we wish, we can free the entities that are focused on others. This is a kind of part of the Bodhisattva function. If we can help to liberate others, then some people choose to do so.)


Some people maintain that the entity situation on the planet isn't real, and hold a viewpoint of denial about this entire edifice of stuff -- the reality of which any shaman worth their salt over the last several thousand years knows a great deal about, and can confirm. The Buddhists know all about it, too: they call them "Angry Ghosts". It's a good term.

But if someone does deny it, the entities don't care. (Or in some cases, they'll be delighted!) They'll go after you anyway -- especially if you're trying to change things on this planet, and help out a little. Hundreds of Avalonians know this well.

Hubbard himself spent quite a number of years chasing down the subject of 'Clear' - and famously made one or two wrong turns, and announcements that were too premature -- but after that was all straightened out, he discovered there was a lot more 'on the other side'.

Arguably, that was when his personality really started to change -- and it did, sometime in the 1960s. Now aware of what he was really up against (think of all the legions of Angry Ghosts in existence, and there are a lot of those!), he went into battle mode and took the 'Church' with him.

And, my personal opinion is that he made some bad decisions, and didn't handle it very well. But his research continued, and -- as I've said elsewhere, pretty much -- tens of thousands of others have benefited hugely because he was willing to do the trial-and-error experimental work on himself.

[cuitlahuac]

I don’t normally comment on crank science that finds its way into my Inbox, but this evening I got a really good laugh. but lost interest writing on santilli's telescope at another thread, which is sad.

I want to point out that senile Demantia does not need DSM's categorised classification.

Maybe , my post needs intellectual, conceptual abilities to comprehend.

"Interesting part is out patient category :

32 of them was forensic requested for legal Incompetence 27 of them were found competent which leads them to the judicial system for abusing naive people for financial gain. This is only one week admission you guess the rest"


My Purpose to put that data out was, to show how charlatan healers try to use of psychiatric umbrella hoping to have an intellectual disability diagnosis for themselves to avoid a criminal trail. 27 of them found healthy and send back to court. 5 of them were diagnosed as an intellectual disability person which they avoid to be criminally charged.

You said "Then Tangri, shall we put all psychiatrists into a institution? Shall you be included too? Under what category? "believing in psychiatric pseudo scientific dogmas?"

Do I sense an insult in your statement or it is just my misunderstanding here?

Did I use OTlll , OTlV as a ridiculed icon to provoke you?

I am not a random people for your exorcism practise.

Even though Scientology using science word in their disguised agenda they are only immune for criminal charges because of religious acts.

I agree. Senile Dementia, having a known "etiology" (cause) is thankfully the territory of neurology, not psychiatry.

I have to acknowledge I didn't understand the post.

Yes, I'm sorry I had included insult because I misunderstood there was insult against Avalon members.

If it all is a misunderstanding, can we clarify it?

Note: Science and religion are "fundamentally" not at odds. Newton's "Philosophia Naturalis, Principia Mathematica" is science and religion.

[lightwalker]

I went clear back in the 80's. They found my phone number a few years ago and called and pestered me for a while. They had all my files from when I lived in Hawaii and read back some of my "success stories". They even gave me my clear number. I never wrote it down so I cannot remember it.

Since they keep everything on file I would just write back to them that I no longer wished to be contacted by them and also had no money. If they called me I asked for the name and person and their position and told them I couldn't stop the church from harassing me but I would keep on file the name of the person who called. That intimidated them and eventually all communication stopped.

When I left the church, I and a few others of us, got a hold of all our case folders one night after the org was closed. Boy did that cause a ruckus but since we didn't take anything but papers there was nothing they could do. The funny part about those files, and there were stacks of them, was my idea of continuing on outside of the church. However as time went by I lost interest, was raising a family and all those files went out with the annual spring garbage collection. We took those files because some of the "confessions" could have been used to black mail some individuals, especially one person in particular.

I was not traumatized the way so many others were. I am grateful for the skills and good things that I learned. I believe they pursued me because of how much training I had. I still use my communication skills to this day that I learned in Scientology. I am no longer affiliated with any religion. They have all served their purpose.

Can't wait till we can look back on all of this, knowing we have come thru the fire, and how truly magnificent this journey has been.

lightwalker

[cuitlahuac]

I don’t normally comment on crank science that finds its way into my Inbox, but this evening I got a really good laugh. but lost interest writing on santilli's telescope at another thread, which is sad.


Yes. I agree the Santilli's "entities" look more like a promotion of the telescopes. Crank science, but, do you consider this thread "Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org" also crank science, as the post seem to imply? And if so, on what scientific grounds?

[cuitlahuac]

...I need to clear some things about this nibiru and more ... I can almost hear the conversations up there .. but I don't know who it is ,,, it is like they are making the decisions but with who down here I don't have any good cogs

what you think?

jim

My take on this post by Jiminii:

Mibiru is most probably some companion to our Son. Most Suns like us are binary systems, meaning 2 Suns, one of them a brown dwarf, a not shining Sun. It's not probable that there could be beings in the Dwarf Sun, but we don't know if it has satellites.

What I want to stress is that According to Capt. Bill Robertson, the telepathic communications can be intercepted or perceived easily by sensitive persons. He, Bill Robertson, could "feel" or hear the telepathic communications of the Earth Intell agencies. Telepathy is an effective communication channel in space.

So, if Jiminii states he is hearing the telepathic communication sent by... The Anunaki? to somebody on Eart, that's completely in alignment of what Captain Bill Robertson said one would hear if you were sensitive.

Jiminii states that he does not know "who it is up there". What we "know" is "up there" are the ones in the Moon, the Anunaki near Nibiru, the Mars colonies, the hybrid nurseries...

Here I better shut up! :ROFL:

Also Simon Parkes has spoken of the role of Nibiru or something associated to Nibiru and CERN as a time line shifter.

[cuitlahuac]

the auditor did not know I was doing this on my own ... there was a guy who said he was audited and found out he was jesus christ ... and I was new in this scientology and we are not suppose to evaluate or invalidate but he is telling me that the marks of crusifixtion were on his hands .. sometimes appearing ... and then he flashes ... and says "you were one of the criminals on the cross and the other criminal was LRH and on those crosses we decided to salvage this planet ... well I was already in trouble with scientology because of the powers I had ... I could move my hands trying to explain something and the entire org speeded up and this person I was talking to rushed me out of the org ... she said, "I am OT3 and you should go back to the mission you came from) ... I got back to the mission and was told I disturbed the entire Sea Org base over there and they thought maybe I was on drugs... I asked what happened ... they said : it made everyone in the org move faster what ever I did .. .. so this guy talking about being christ ??? well I couldn't get the think he put in me out of my head and I was afraid to report him because he was in data division and I had no idea what would happen if I did report him ... i just didn't want what he said in my head ... so I took the chance in session to go back and and look and i stepped in both criminals and knew I had nothing to do with them ... but go into Christ body ... if felt like some huge piece of concrete was slamming up against me ... not me a body but me a spirit and that is a lot different feeling .. you can have something slam up against your body ... but only the body feels it ... this was hitting the being inside .. and I just had to get out ... so my cognition was they were trying to stop christ from finishing what he wanted to do ... some kind of spiritual awaking or something ... and this UFO was cloaked in gold and I saw they were radiating something out to the crowds .. which at first made me think that christ was sending some kind of light ..means spiritual awareness of some kind ... no .. that ufo was implanting the area ... so I yelled it was a trick ... I had no previous knowledge of Scientology other than the books I read so I didn't know people could have a "winning valance" ... valance means the assumed personality of someone else like you act like your father or mother sometimes .. a winning valance would be to take on the valance of some famous personality and believe you are him ... well you have to audit all these valences out to find the person himself ... but I didn't know that at the time

jim

This is what is considered remote viewing in the Intell world, and Time Track Scanning in Scientology. In 1982, a person explained me how the CIA had remote viewed the life of Christ. I think this became to be the book: Caballo de Troya of J. J. Benitez.

I would like to explain this with an excerpt of the Philadelphia Doctorate Course lecture by Hubbard. Here he explains how a person could really change the past and so the future. This indicates that jiminni could have changed the present, by changing the past in the Crusifiction when he shouted "it was a trick".

The other point I would like to mention is that jiminii describes what might be an implant or "mind control operation" by ETs and it consists on hitting the spiritual being and the body to attach the spiritual being into a body. This is called Facsimile 1 and is described in the book A History of Man.

Note: If somebody prefers to believe this is Sci-Fi, that's perfectly Ok.

Edit: This concept of looking at an event and being able to change it is also described in the MIB II movie. An ET guy has the ability to shift timelines and witness the events in "real time", explains that one can change them but it could be unwise.


Oh, well, I’ve given… haven’t given you the rest of those. Uh… the… you scan the room and then there is a track called the ‘Imaginary Track’. The preclear’s track of what he imagines could happen to him. And he can get that.

And uh… then there is the track by geographical location in time. Instead of scanning where he is... he simply looks at the places where they are as they were. In other words, as he comes up the time track he scans through having been in Charleston, South Carolina in 1726. He looks at Charleston, South Carolina, 1726, and he flicks over then, and when he went from Charleston to New York, he flicks over and gets Charleston uh… he t… he gets New York, uh… two years later. You see? But he gets it in its proper space location. He’s actually flipping all around.

You can actually take a look at Carthage the day it fell. Sitting right here. And you can see the way Carthage fell. And you weren’t there. Take a look at it.

You can also get viewpoints all over. You’re just investigating the havingness which was Carthage which is in the stream of existence – which havingness still exists because the agreement existed and because time is simultaneous, but you have stretched out time in terms of havingness in order to have action.

You can be, in other words, anywhere you want to be at any time. And you’ll find your preclear, when he regains this, is in very good shape... Lot of things been going on and this and that and he goes around and he says it’s like… like being suddenly given a ticket to all the motion picture shows, uh… wonderful.

Of course, he really isn’t satisfied to be a spectator. It’s maddening to him to see Carthage falling and he thinks he ought to pull the walls down and he’ll think it so hard that he ought to do a mock-up [any knowingly created mental picture that is not part of a time track] and he’ll throw a mock-up in there and pull a couple of walls down or something of the sort in an effort to change the havingness of Carthage. There’s a lot of people that were agreeing on that. Then if he wanted to pull the walls down of Carthage at the right moment so they’d fall on the right legion in order to win the battle for Carthage, he would have to be prepared to take the responsibility for the entire change of the Punic Wars.

And if he was willing to take that responsibility, he would have to reach out then and take the responsibility for a complete alteration of the fate of Rome. That means that he would have to take responsibility for what he would then do by that consecutive action. He’d have to take responsibility for all of Christianity not existing. That guy just isn’t willing to take that much responsibility so he doesn’t change those agreements... A fellow gets very careful about this.

Because you see how much responsibility a person conceives he’s able to handle, how much detail he’s prepared to handle and so on – you can have the whole cockeyed universe if you want it, but you, I’m afraid, have to take responsibility for every alteration that would take place because of that.

PDC-30 FLOWS: RATE OF CHANGE, REALTIVE SIZE, ANCHOR POINTS
10.12.52

[cuitlahuac]

I am not the viewpoint of LRH .. and I am not the viewpoint of Siddhartha Gautma Buddha ... though I ran all their pictures through my head. LRH took 3 days .. Siddhartha Gautame took only a minute or so

Quite a spiritual ability. :bigsmile:


we have different memories and different timelines ... but we all come from the same spirit called metteyya ... that I know ... some say he was disturbed ... but I never saw that ... but I do have the viewpoint that he could have had some disturbances ... in the Sea Org especially Flag Service Org was very rough on me ,.. because they had all those infiltrators ... but I will tell you what happened ... I went outside the base and looked at the building and decided to handle all the counter intention .. I spotted this ... this .. and this .. some kind of something in the space ... and suddenly something entered my mind like saying "what do you want to do with that?" ... this time I thought " hit it " .. next day 3 people RPFed ..means rehabilitation project force .. which is where people who are destructive to the org are given a chance to change ... they do cleanup work on the buildings or something like it ... and get auditing everyday to remove this counter intention ..
ok I went out every night .. if I found 4 spots in space .. the next day 4 people are RPFed ..every time the exact number I spotted the night before ...more than 100 were RPFed then the space was clean ... I don't know who was in communication with me spiritually .that would do all the RPFing ... but I wrote of a letter to my OFO .. ORG Flag Officer ... we are given to tell them if we have any problems ..I said, "well the space is pretty clean ... Now we need to bring those people off the RPF because we are going over the hump ... and we will need them ..." in the next 3 or 4 days almost 90 % of about a hundred of them were coming out of the RPF and given a different post than the one they were destructive with ... I never heard this happen in the Sea Org before .. usually they would have to stay in the RPF until they were cleaned ... but that many coming all at once ???? I was surprised .. it seemed they were following my orders and I am just basically a very new recruit .... then I wrote a letter to LRH and it said, "Highest evers GI gross income this week " .. we got highest evers GI since 1979"

Looks like all FSO staff and "top brass" were your "puppets"... http://www.backyardchickens.com/content/type/61/id/6192071/width/100/height/400/flags/LL


... now I can not see who is somehow communicating with me and they did my suggestion .. and it happened ... and so from their end ... I have no idea what was happening

because of these things and they never gave me auditing since 1971 ... I was really confused as to who I am and why they follow my suggestions...

the other things that happened there are this ,... 3 ethics officers came down to see me ... and said "jim we want you to write more letters "
i said. "why?" ... they said, "everyone you're writing to is coming in" ..
I said "why don't you get the others here writing too" .. (writing to people is something everyone is suppose to do but it is not my main job)
they said .."they don't write as good as you."
now is it my writing that is bringing them in .. are my intention ...

I have no idea what I am doing

then at night we are off work and they ask us to do volunteer work so I was sending out mail grams
they asked me to send out more mail grams
the same reason ... all the people are coming in ...

so I am not him
he is a different timeline and different personality than me ... and I have different ideas than he does ...

so please ... I am not a viewpoint of him.. I just went in to do my mission and see what came out of it ... I am more like an observer for those in the stars .. possibly from base 2

jim

I wonder if the FSO Captain should thank "Space Station 2" for the Highest Ever Gross Income...
:ROFL:

[cuitlahuac]

oh sorry ... I didn't read it right .. I thought you said i was a viewpoint of LRH ... .. I read it wrong
yes I am a viewpoint of metteyya ... but there is about a million star children here too .. they are viewpoints of Metteyya too
then there is gaia ,.. there might be another million from gaia ... like inelia
and I don't know the other big spirits that are doing this together

jim

So, a tentative definition of Star Children would be persons spiritually related to a great spirit, like Metteya?

[cuitlahuac]

Thought this might shed some light...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvfioivtY6c

Thanks a lot. Capt. Bill Robertson states here that Freezone is an alternative route to the other side. Just for when the Shadow Government imposes global martial law and nazi swat teams come crashing in to burn your Scientology materials, whose copyrights are owned by the US Shadow Government, namely, the Shadow Government run Church of Spiritual Technology.

Let's see that doesn't happen, because the puppets in US Congress are giving the President of the USA unlimited power to wage international war and so become global dictator.

http://www.wikiscientology.org/archiv/sc-i-r-s-ology/images/howirscontrols4.gif

[cuitlahuac]

I wrote this today as part of a private message to Raf (RMorgan), who lives in Brazil:



I certainly do not want to make the forum all about Jim (or Hubbard). We have to keep the balance. I'm totally aware of it. As soon as there's another false flag event in the US, or a real missile threat from North Korea, or the dollar suddenly collapses to nothing, or Obama announces he's gay, or a meteor hits the Christ the Redeemer statue in Rio -- then the focus will change again.

:)


Or news outlets tells us of reptilians mowing down hundreds of human special forces on Mars... Even Simon Parkes comments on that. He states that reptilians were just defending their right... Does anybody know more on that? Look at the video at 1:03 min mark.

Simon Parkes - The Great Shift Really Begins 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryo6p64b2i0

[cuitlahuac]

in the last few days I have experience auditing coming from somewhere ... and now ... the buttons [words or actions or things that make one react] are flat .. means ... I don't get bothered by what people say to me on this site ... also can not feel any psychic attacks ... amazing ... space is really opening up and I feel great ... I can take it all on now ,... thanks for helping me to get this stuff out of me ... it is lining up much better ,... we don't need a pole shift ... we can keep everything safe the way it is ... we can just put a spiritual umbrella around the planet and decide nothing harmful enters our earths including satellites , space ,,, like solar flares ... and we can decide the weather is normal world wide and HAARP can not effect anything any more .. decide anything harmful in the environment will not touch earth will be taken to safe locations like deserts and oceans we can do it all ... so whatever they dump will stay up there and pass by any populations .. all of this can be done just like we created this Universe together ,.. anything can be decided and done ... collectively we can't lose
and decide all of us are in a safe space and decide the entire area around planet is a safe space ... when they can't make any more of their effects anymore they would probably go completely nuts


jim

Yes, all my support on that.

[cuitlahuac]

psychiatry was setup from the people they experimented with in the german concentration camps in WWII
the cabal ... decided to pay a lot of scholarships to promote it in the major universities ... their main purpose was to get rid of political enemies

as told by LRH

jim


Here is an example:



Little girl, she’s sitting on the curb, she’s playing with a jacks or something of the sort, and this will be in the year, oh, a couple trillion years ago, and she’s sitting on this big, beautiful city and here’s a very, very nice-looking hussar who rides up and says „How are you?“ and gives her some candy. Well, after she passes out, he takes her across the saddle bow and takes her into the big castle and there she is placed in a room remarkably like those that are in use right at this
moment. There’s a shining grate or something of this sort and it keeps her in a state of trance.

Well, they persuade her that she is a prostitute or something like that, or they get a prostitute and they bring her in there too. And they swap those bodies and then they will send this little girl off to all of a sudden occupy or take over the body of some political uh… some queen or something of the sort someplace or another, and make a prostitute of her so
that she will disgrace the king and the government will fall. And this is politics par excellence.

Was this just astral walking? Or was it actually… did we produce a result? Well, it’s all right to sit around and theorize and say, „Well, astral walking is this and something or other is that.“ As a matter of fact, astral walking is the palest shade of anything like this. Just the palest of shades. And … can we actually make this person influence somebody at a distance? And by working on it, really working on it, putting him into a very deep trance, narcosynthesis which is used every day on people. That’s right, uh… because psychiatry does this unwittingly all the time. They throw a guy under narcosynthesis and they say, „Be back on the battlefield now, all right you’re on the battlefield. Well, you were unconscious at that moment so we won’t pay any attention to that, now let’s go through,“ and so on. And the guy comes home and he walks around like a zombie and they wonder what’s wrong with him.

PDC-24 WHAT’S WRONG WITH THIS UNIVERSE:
PHILADELPHIA DOCTORATE COURSE

[cuitlahuac]

Jiminii said he is the viewpoint of Maitreya - how does one take that?

I am not the viewpoint of LRH .. and I am not the viewpoint of Siddhartha Gautma Buddha ... though I ran all their pictures through my head. LRH took 3 days .. Siddhartha Gautame took only a minute or so
we have different memories and different timelines ... but we all come from the same spirit called metteyya ...

...

so I am not him
he is a different timeline and different personality than me ... and I have different ideas than he does ...

jim

Below is what Hubbard described since the early 50's on this topics:

TIME TRACK OF THETA
[theta is thought, life force, elan vital, the spirit, the soul, or any other of
the numerous definitions it has had for some thousands of years.]
HISTORY OF THE THETA LINE

Any subject which is attempting to codify knowledge wants as little as possible to do with loose ends – with exceptions. I love these so-called laws which begin "Now, the following theory so-and-so and so-and-so is absolutely true." And then it lists exceptions and it lists practically everything that should have been covered by the law, and then it lists doubtfuls - everything else, We don't want any loose ends hanging out on this at all. As a consequence, I have to go into this subject to keep it in the MEST universe [MEST from Mater Energy Space and Time] and to handle it in the second echelon, the MEST universe. I am not talking to you now, particularly, in the third echelon.

You see, now there are three echelons: The first is simply considering the organism. First echelon, which was Dianetics, is considering the organism as it. It is just it, that's all. It's an organism. It is a body and it is a mind and it is a brain and it's all one. And it's a unit and it's an individual, and it gets conceived and is born and it dies and that's that. And it considers it as very much a part of the MEST universe. Now, considering it from that angle, you can still produce very good results.

The second echelon considers the identity or the description of - an accurate and demonstrable description of - thought itself as something which is not of the MEST universe.

Now, the third echelon is a study of why did it all come about in the first place and why is it happening.

We are still very much in "how" when I start talking to you about the MEST line, the MEST body line - that is to say, the genetic line - its offshoots of the dead body line, and the theta body line.

...

In all of the fields of knowledge, a unification of knowables is desirable.

And when I start talking to you ahout the individual and individuality, I have to take in factors... These factors consist of the fact that one theta body can take care of several individuals and ordinarily does.

What happens on the theta body line is very interesting. You find the theta body line starting out as an individuality. It progresses a little way through the MEST universe and may unite with another theta body line or two more, and then spread out from that and become several lines again.

In short, here you have your original theta body line, it comes along, it goes along fine, and this lifetime, it's one. And then it hits a lifetime strata and it becomes three or four. And then these three or four come in again to just one individuality again.

Now, here you have this operation: this body line then, may go out as two bodies. You could actually track somebody back and find him living twice through the same age period.
You can find him living twice in the past, through the same years. But more importantly, more important to you as an auditor, you can find a preclear living in four or six or ten entities right here on this universe at this moment. And you can demonstrate it in any way you want to demonstrate it, and even write letters to the other identities, if you want to go that far, and tell them what they had for breakfast.

Now, up above the line of knowingness - this knowingness is a sort of individuality; it's a sort of a manifestation in front of a curtain. Here, let us say, [marking on blackboard] is a curtain, and here is "I" over here, but back of "I" there's a lot of knowledge can be concentrated, and "I" sort of shuts that off and says, "Well, that doesn't apply to me." Well, very often it applies to him so strenuously that if he doesn't know about it, he's going to be a sick man. Now, that's no good.

So, we'll go down the line here, and we'll find this "I," let us say, in this life. That was one "I". Now, we take this span here with four lives, and we've got "I" here, and we've got "I" here [blackboard]. That's not back of each other, you understand; these are just curtains. And there's an "I" in front of each curtain, but actually back of this is the same theta line. Actually, back of this you have just this theta line going along; it's the same line. It just depends on how many individuals come off of it this time.

You'll find a situation back through the evolutionary stretch where the "I" is dividing... And you'll find this division, division, division, division, then you'll find all the divisions sort of coming back in together, and then going all out and being different entities again and coming back in and - it's wonderful.

It could be very confusing if you permitted it to confuse you. The only reason you could be confused about it is you're fairly low on the Tone Scale and you said, "I'm going to be me, and that's all there is to that," and "There's nobody else is going to share any part of anything I'm doing," and "I can't be anybody else but me."

http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientology%20Materials/index.php?dir=Tapes+in+order%2F6308c06+Time+Track+of+Theta%2FDOC%2F

[cuitlahuac]

LRH said ... "we won't talk about how I got clear" in a conversation

he went clear just like I did ... from base 2 auditing ... that is what I get from my perceptions

Jim

In this case, if "base 2" is not defined, one might think jiminii is nuts.

"Base 2" as meant by jiminii might have a "for general public eyes" definition in the decalogy of books called "Mission Earth". In them there is a city in the center of the galaxy and this city is the capital of the Galactic confederacy. This city is near a small black hole. This black hole shifts time and then, the capital city exists some minutes into the future. The purpose of this design is that any threat directed against Capital City is detected beforehand and so countermeasures can be implemented.

Of course "Mission Earth" is "science fiction", but Hubbard has said that "science fiction" becomes real science as years go by. This is more or less what jiminii means by "base 2".

Edit: I don't remember exactly if the shift is back in time or to the future in the "Mission Earth" book.

Edit 2:


How is time changed in a black hole?

Well, in a certain sense it is not changed at all... Although your watch as seen by you would not change its ticking rate... someone else would see a different ticking rate on your watch than the usual, and you would see their watch to be ticking at a different than normal rate. For example, if you were to station yourself just outside a black hole, while you would find your own watch ticking at the normal rate, you would see the watch of a friend at great distance from the hole to be ticking at a much faster rate than yours. That friend would see his own watch ticking at a normal rate, but see your watch to be ticking at a much slower rate. Thus if you stayed just outside the black hole for a while, then went back to join your friend, you would find that the friend had aged more than you had during your separation.

http://www.phys.vt.edu/~jhs/faq/blackholes.html#q2

[Clear Light]

Edit 2:


How is time changed in a black hole?

Well, in a certain sense it is not changed at all... Although your watch as seen by you would not change its ticking rate... someone else would see a different ticking rate on your watch than the usual, and you would see their watch to be ticking at a different than normal rate. For example, if you were to station yourself just outside a black hole, while you would find your own watch ticking at the normal rate, you would see the watch of a friend at great distance from the hole to be ticking at a much faster rate than yours. That friend would see his own watch ticking at a normal rate, but see your watch to be ticking at a much slower rate. Thus if you stayed just outside the black hole for a while, then went back to join your friend, you would find that the friend had aged more than you had during your separation.

http://www.phys.vt.edu/~jhs/faq/blackholes.html#q2

Ah, reading the above I was reminded of a scene in Interstellar where due to the apparent effects of the nearby black hole (Gargantua), one hour for Cooper and Amelia on Miller's planet was the equivalent of approximately seven years for Romilly who was patiently waiting for their return back aboard Endurance ... I mean what's 23 YEARS between friends eh ? :shocked:

Or at least that's how the THEORY goes anyway ...


nOipaf5Rt9o

[cuitlahuac]

Ah, reading the above I was reminded of a scene in Interstellar where due to the apparent effects of the nearby black hole (Gargantua), one hour for Cooper and Amelia on Miller's planet was the equivalent of approximately seven years for Romilly who was patiently waiting for their return back aboard Endurance ... I mean what's 23 YEARS between friends eh ? :shocked:

Or at least that's how the THEORY goes anyway ...

[/CENTER]

Thanks. Apparently it's more than theory. There's a big black hole at the center of the galaxy. And if we were to see people living near a black hole, we would see their clocks slowing down the more they are close to the black hole.

If we were the ones near the black hole, we would see the clocks of other people here accelerating.

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/11/08/interstellar_movie_blackhole.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg

[kanishk]

Jiminii said he is the viewpoint of Maitreya - how does one take that?

I am not the viewpoint of LRH .. and I am not the viewpoint of Siddhartha Gautma Buddha ... though I ran all their pictures through my head. LRH took 3 days .. Siddhartha Gautame took only a minute or so
we have different memories and different timelines ... but we all come from the same spirit called metteyya ...

...

so I am not him
he is a different timeline and different personality than me ... and I have different ideas than he does ...

jim

Below is what Hubbard described since the early 50's on this topics:

TIME TRACK OF THETA
[theta is thought, life force, elan vital, the spirit, the soul, or any other of
the numerous definitions it has had for some thousands of years.]
HISTORY OF THE THETA LINE

...

...

In all of the fields of knowledge, a unification of knowables is desirable.

And when I start talking to you ahout the individual and individuality, I have to take in factors... These factors consist of the fact that one theta body can take care of several individuals and ordinarily does.

What happens on the theta body line is very interesting. You find the theta body line starting out as an individuality. It progresses a little way through the MEST universe and may unite with another theta body line or two more, and then spread out from that and become several lines again.

In short, here you have your original theta body line, it comes along, it goes along fine, and this lifetime, it's one. And then it hits a lifetime strata and it becomes three or four. And then these three or four come in again to just one individuality again.

Now, here you have this operation: this body line then, may go out as two bodies. You could actually track somebody back and find him living twice through the same age period.
You can find him living twice in the past, through the same years. But more importantly, more important to you as an auditor, you can find a preclear living in four or six or ten entities right here on this universe at this moment. And you can demonstrate it in any way you want to demonstrate it, and even write letters to the other identities, if you want to go that far, and tell them what they had for breakfast.

Now, up above the line of knowingness - this knowingness is a sort of individuality; it's a sort of a manifestation in front of a curtain. Here, let us say, [marking on blackboard] is a curtain, and here is "I" over here, but back of "I" there's a lot of knowledge can be concentrated, and "I" sort of shuts that off and says, "Well, that doesn't apply to me." Well, very often it applies to him so strenuously that if he doesn't know about it, he's going to be a sick man. Now, that's no good.

So, we'll go down the line here, and we'll find this "I," let us say, in this life. That was one "I". Now, we take this span here with four lives, and we've got "I" here, and we've got "I" here [blackboard]. That's not back of each other, you understand; these are just curtains. And there's an "I" in front of each curtain, but actually back of this is the same theta line. Actually, back of this you have just this theta line going along; it's the same line. It just depends on how many individuals come off of it this time.

You'll find a situation back through the evolutionary stretch where the "I" is dividing... And you'll find this division, division, division, division, then you'll find all the divisions sort of coming back in together, and then going all out and being different entities again and coming back in and - it's wonderful.

It could be very confusing if you permitted it to confuse you. The only reason you could be confused about it is you're fairly low on the Tone Scale and you said, "I'm going to be me, and that's all there is to that," and "There's nobody else is going to share any part of anything I'm doing," and "I can't be anybody else but me."

http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientology%20Materials/index.php?dir=Tapes+in+order%2F6308c06+Time+Track+of+Theta%2FDOC%2F

This thing is understood commonly by spiritual people as twin flames or twin souls.

Below teal swan in her youtube video explaining what is twin soul and what is soul mate. Here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuMr2BrIuyM in her interview she tells that she was sai baba in her past life in India and that there are others in her soul stream incarnated as other gurus in India in past and why they now dont like to incarnate there and do things differently, like performing magical stuff that they did in past.

Twin Flames and Soul Mates (Do they Exist?) - Teal Swan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqrGkQOpmAs)

eqrGkQOpmAs

Below is a psychic reading done by Carol Clarke a psychic reader of a women who is twin flame of Michael Jackson. And in reading Michael Jackson communicates with her through Carol Clarke. And he tell her that there are other twin souls also (I dont remember how many, may be 4 in male body and three in female body something like that), and that three of them already united with each other. And that she will also unit him after dying. But before that she can disclose the truth about Michael Jacksons Murder in this life. et cetra et cetra..

My Twin Flame Psychic Reading - Michael Jackson's Murder and More (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0dpxx3bmHk)

g0dpxx3bmHk

[Clear Light]

Thanks. Apparently it's more than theory. There's a big black hole at the center of the galaxy. And if we were to see people living near a black hole, we would see their clocks slowing down the more they are close to the black hole.

If we were the ones near the black hole, we would see the clocks of other people here accelerating.

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/11/08/interstellar_movie_blackhole.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg

Oh, with all due respect, you have explained a theoretical position that cannot be "tested" (as you suggest) since we do not have the requisite capability of deep space travel to verify the theory !

Furthermore, since mathematics and physics "break down" the closer one gets to the "black hole" can anyone realistically say they KNOW what actually happens in such warped areas of space-time ?

[cuitlahuac]

Oh, with all due respect, you have explained a theoretical position that cannot be "tested" (as you suggest) since we do not have the requisite capability of deep space travel to verify the theory !

Furthermore, since mathematics and physics "break down" the closer one gets to the "black hole" can anyone realistically say they KNOW what actually happens in such warped areas of space-time ?

Oh, with all due respect, but the acceleration and ralentization of time due to Einstein's theory of relativity has been "tested" verified. After this, given that the theory has been verified, one can assume the time phenomena of time near black holes is also true, until more experiments are performed.

Einstein's theory of relativity predicted that a clock in a vehicle traveling close to the speed of light would "tick" slower than a clock fixed on Earth. The experiment consisted on putting an atomic clock into a plain and compare it to an atomic clock fixed on Earth. The difference was very small, but was the one predicted by the theory. The other prediction by Relativity theory is the slowing down of time near black holes.

And the person making the movie Interstellar, is not a science fiction writer but a theoretical physicist.


Theoretical physicist Kip Thorne was a scientific consultant for the film to ensure the depictions of wormholes and relativity were as accurate as possible. "For the depictions of the wormholes and the black hole," he said, "we discussed how to go about it, and then I worked on the equations that would enable tracing of light rays as they traveled through a wormhole or around a black hole—so what you see is based on Einstein's general relativity equations."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_(film)#Scientific_accuracy

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Kip_Thorne_at_Caltech.jpg/170px-Kip_Thorne_at_Caltech.jpg

Kip Thorne, theoretical physicist, served as scientific consultant and executive producer.

[Clear Light]

Oh, with all due respect, but the acceleration and ralentization of time due to Einstein's theory of relativity has been "tested" verified. After this, given that the theory has been verified, one can assume the time phenomena of time near black holes is also true, until more experiments are performed.

Einstein's theory of relativity predicted that a clock in a vehicle traveling close to the speed of light would "tick" slower than a clock fixed on Earth. The experiment consisted on putting an atomic clock into a plain and compare it to an atomic clock fixed on Earth. The difference was very small, but was the one predicted by the theory. The other prediction by Relativity theory is the slowing down of time near black holes.

And the person making the movie Interstellar, is not a science fiction writer but a theoretical physicist

Yes, I agree with what you're saying above, but I was referring to when the distance to the "black hole" is relatively "short" [1] such that as it approaches zero, the corresponding Gravitational value must tend to infinity (as per the equations) eh ?

Therefore the equations "break down" as they no longer make sense to our Minds because we cannot "imagine" / rationalise / deduce what the outcomes are !

Thus how could "time" not also be greatly affected in such environments I wonder :)


___________________________________________

[1] Apologies if it wasn't clear !

[ThePythonicCow]

Oh, with all due respect, but the acceleration and ralentization of time due to Einstein's theory of relativity has been "tested" verified. After this, given that the theory has been verified, one can assume the time phenomena of time near black holes is also true, until more experiments are performed.
One could assume that ... I for one would not :).

See for example Supermassive Problems with Black Holes (https://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2009/arch09/090602supermassive.htm) or Black holes tear logic apart (http://www.holoscience.com/wp/black-holes-tear-logic-apart/).

There are deep, I suspect fatal, problems with Einstein's theory of general relativity. Partial claimed experimental confirmation of some aspects of it cannot overcome these conceptual and experimental problems.

[cuitlahuac]

There are deep, I suspect fatal, problems with Einstein's theory of general relativity. Partial claimed experimental confirmation of some aspects of it cannot overcome these conceptual and experimental problems.

I have to correct myself. The time dilation due to gravity, predicted in Einstein's theory of relativity has been confirmed. First in the late 50's and then in the 70's.

Time runs slower near a massive object.


Hafele–Keating experiment was a test of the theory of relativity. In October 1971, Joseph C. Hafele, a physicist, and Richard E. Keating, an astronomer, took four cesium-beam atomic clocks aboard commercial airliners. They flew twice around the world, first eastward, then westward, and compared the clocks against others that remained at the United States Naval Observatory. When reunited, the three sets of clocks were found to disagree with one another, and their differences were consistent with the predictions of special and general relativity.

Gravitational time dilation
General relativity predicts an additional effect, in which an increase in gravitational potential due to altitude speeds the clocks up. That is, clocks at higher altitude tick faster than clocks on Earth's surface. This effect has been confirmed in many tests of general relativity, such as the Pound–Rebka experiment and Gravity Probe A. In the Hafele–Keating experiment, there was a slight increase in gravitational potential due to altitude that tended to speed the clocks back up. Since the aircraft flew at roughly the same altitude in both directions, this effect was approximately the same for the two planes, but nevertheless it caused a difference in comparison to the clocks on the ground.

Results
The results were published in Science in 1972.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafele%E2%80%93Keating_experiment

[cuitlahuac]

Yes, I agree with what you're saying above, but I was referring to when the distance to the "black hole" is relatively "short" [1] such that as it approaches zero, the corresponding Gravitational value must tend to infinity (as per the equations) eh ?

Therefore the equations "break down" as they no longer make sense to our Minds because we cannot "imagine" / rationalise / deduce what the outcomes are !

Thus how could "time" not also be greatly affected in such environments I wonder :)


___________________________________________

[1] Apologies if it wasn't clear !

The subject of planets orbiting black holes and what happens to a person if we fall into a black hole, are very speculative, but nevertheless, here are some considerations:

For very massive black holes, you could experience no problems:


What happens to you if you fall into a black hole?

Suppose that, possessing a proper spacecraft and a self-destructive urge, I decide to go black-hole jumping and head for an uncharged, nonrotating ("Schwarzschild") black hole. In this and other kinds of hole, I won't, before I fall in, be able to see anything within the event horizon. But there's nothing locally special about the event horizon; when I get there it won't seem like a particularly unusual place, except that I will see strange optical distortions of the sky around me from all the bending of light that goes on. But as soon as I fall through, I'm doomed. No bungee will help me, since bungees can't keep Sunday from turning into Monday. I have to hit the singularity eventually, and before I get there there will be enormous tidal forces—forces due to the curvature of spacetime—which will squash me and my spaceship in some directions and stretch them in another until I look like a piece of spaghetti. At the singularity all of present physics is mute as to what will happen, but I won't care. I'll be dead.

For ordinary black holes of a few solar masses, there are actually large tidal forces well outside the event horizon, so I probably wouldn't even make it into the hole alive and unstretched. For a black hole of 8 solar masses, for instance, the value of r at which tides become fatal is about 400 km, and the Schwarzschild radius is just 24 km. But tidal stresses are proportional to M/r3. Therefore the fatal r goes as the cube root of the mass, whereas the Schwarzschild radius of the black hole is proportional to the mass. So for black holes larger than about 1000 solar masses I could probably fall in alive, and for still larger ones I might not even notice the tidal forces until I'm through the horizon and doomed.

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/BlackHoles/fall_in.html

And as regards planets orbiting black holes:


Paramount/Warner Brothers/The Kobal Collection

A black hole sun could be friendlier than you might expect. Planets orbiting a black hole – as they do in the film Interstellar – could sustain life, thanks to a bizarre reversal of the thermodynamics experienced by our sun and Earth.

According to the second law of thermodynamics, life requires a temperature difference to provide a source of useable energy. Life on Earth exploits the difference between the sun and the cold vacuum of space, but what if you flip the temperatures around, with a cold sun and a hot sky?

That’s exactly what a planet orbiting a black hole would see, says Tomáš Opatrný of Palacký University in Olomouc, Czech Republic – though it wouldn’t look much like the one imagined by the grunge band Soundgarden.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2073577-black-hole-sun-could-support-bizarre-life-on-orbiting-planets/

[cuitlahuac]

Now, what happens if you fall into a black hole? According to a researcher, Ken Ogger aka The Pilot, Black Holes are the entrance to another lower order more dense universe. He says people have been there and have come out of there.

[cuitlahuac]

I get the idea that he is auditing himself from base 2 ... this means that he is auditing his other timelines now where ever base 2 is in the time track maybe 300 years after now, in the spirit world there is no time ... so he is 300 years ahead of me in a different part of this 3d movie ... but the spirit being is in the same time we are now .. so he can communicate to me directly ... try to get the concept that there is 20 spirits that have created this aquarium out of nothing ... but they are not inside the aquarium .. they are outside it creating it ... then these spirits create a viewpoint to go inside the aquarium they created to see what is going on .. it could be the viewpoint without a body or a viewpoint running a body from outside the body the natural way or someone has trapped the viewpoint inside the body .... with only the memories of the body created from birth not the memories of the viewpoint before he got trapped in the body (fish) in this example
so he audits something and at night I look up there through something and this all started when I was working at FSO flag service org ... LRH was getting into communication to blow any upset I had .... it would blow blow blow .. and then the upset was that I couldn't use an emotion to dramatize my upset .. I came to PT present time and said, "Ron are you here?" ... ok so I look through this same communication through space of some kind and all these pictures start to blow in me and I get huge body reactions of emotions blowing off and huge long exaggerated yawns ... so I know he is auditing me and sometimes he would do this in the day when I was working on something and it made it dangerous for me ... so now he waits or picks up when I want to communicate with him and he responds to the communication ..

that is kinda how I see it

jim

This has to do with how universes are created and how beings interact with them. The Axioms and logics as well as The Factors is the data pertinent here:

Axioms

Axiom 1 Life is basically a static.

DEFINITION: A life static has no mass, no motion, no wavelength, no location in space or in time. It has the ability to postulate and to perceive.

Axiom 2 The static is capable of considerations, postulates and opinions.

Axiom 3 Space, energy, objects, form and time are the result of considerations made and/or agreed upon by the static and are perceived solely because the static considers that it can perceive them.



The Factors

Summation of the considerations and examinations of the human spirit and the material universe completed between A.D. 1923 and 1953.

1 Before the beginning was a Cause and the entire purpose of the Cause was the creation of effect.

2 In the beginning and forever is the decision and the decision is TO BE.

3 The first action of beingness is to assume a viewpoint.

4 The second action of beingness is to extend from the viewpoint, points to view, which are dimension points.

5 Thus there is space created, for the definition of space is: viewpoint of dimension. And the purpose of a dimension point is space and a point of view.

[cuitlahuac]

if you are a natural clear you don't have engrams
if you do then you acquired them in this lifetime .and it would be the GE that would have recorded them .. natural clears don't record pictures, they just KNOW .... means you are a star child from the future with no automatic record mechanism ... you need a recording mechanism attached to the viewpoint (thetan the I AM that runs the body) to store engrams ... the only thing that can hit you from the past is pictures you recorded ... if you don't have these pictures they can't effect your life

jim

As far as I understand, in the early 80's natural clears were being found, and it was stated by Hubbard that they were people going clear in their previous lives. It was also found that there were natural clears. jiminii states they are new beings from the future, and that they are star seeds, but there are natural clears that have had a very long life in this universe. At least this person does not state that he is from the future, but indicates that he is very old in this universe.

Definition of Clear:

Clear: 6 . the name of a button on an adding machine. When you push it, all the hidden answers in the machine clear and the machine can be used for a proper computation. So long as the button is not pressed the machine adds all old answers to all new efforts to compute and wrong answers result. Really, that’s all a Clear is. Clears are beings who have been cleared of wrong answers or useless answers which keep them from living or thinking.
7 . a Clear has risen from the analogy between the mind and the computing machine. Before a computer can be used to solve a problem, it must be cleared of old problems, of old data and conclusions. Otherwise, it will add all the old conclusions into the new one and produce an invalid answer. Processing clears more and more of these problems from the computer. The completely cleared individual would have all his self-determinism in present time and would be completely self-determined.

[cuitlahuac]

something changed in me at 14 ... and I became very stable .. didn't fear anything ... and no more headaches ... I think it was because of gas fumes on the ground caused me to go out of my body .... I was sitting about 16 feet above the ground and to the right of my horse ... my horse turned his head and looked up straight at me.... I went back into my body and ran every single picture in my life in a few seconds ... I looked back and thought "did I run ALL the pictures .... yes I did ... " how can I run and entire lifetime in a few seconds .. well I just did .... there was a kind of realization in between each picture was a tiny gap of nothingness ... so it would be like going in the the space at an instant and then going out and going into the next created space all the way to birth ... I did not realize this until I got on this website and bill pointed out some of the abilities of the free zone upper OT levels .... there is something different in me ... I can pop back into the exact time and pop back to this time ... and in between is this tiny gap ... it is like going into the physical universe and going out .. to the void which I would say would be spirit outside the box ... so I have another ability that if I can attest to ... maybe I can just pop back to any time and tell anyone what happened exactly ... I think this is a result of sending us back to this period of time. as for the head aches ... when a viewpoint (I AM) doesn't have pictures he tends to want to be part of the crowd it seems so he borrows other people's pictures .. or I borrow the pictures of the GE in my body .. but somehow I separated the connection and am sitting somewhere in total serene ... watching the body doing all the reacting ... it is like I can cry ... but I put it in me .. but me the being is not crying .. I cry to create the effect I want at the time ... to send some kind of inspiration to others ... the body goes through the emotion with apparently real feelings .. while I am sitting back just a bit amused that I can do that ... when I was in the room where the thai buddhist was testing me I could feel the presence of other out of body buddhist that wanted to know why I am messing with their weather .... when you present an impossible situation to someone like "just move a spiritual finger out there and pull on the air and start up the wind ... it has a tendency to wake up the being ... especially if suddenly the wind starts up ... it startles the being and he knows you did it ... other times other awareness's .. can pick up the being too

try this ... look into the crowd of people and get the idea you can see where all the spirit beings are ... it gets very spiritual and you can almost see them or feel where they are next to their head ... or look at the area you are in and get the idea the space you are looking at is created space .... it will change your viewpoint to more spiritual
or get near a horse ... and get the idea you are communicating with her ... and it really gets spiritual .. at least for me.

jim

In the highlighted part jiminii states he was sent from the future.

[Wide-Eyed]

I wrote this today as part of a private message to Raf (RMorgan), who lives in Brazil:



I certainly do not want to make the forum all about Jim (or Hubbard). We have to keep the balance. I'm totally aware of it. As soon as there's another false flag event in the US, or a real missile threat from North Korea, or the dollar suddenly collapses to nothing, or Obama announces he's gay, or a meteor hits the Christ the Redeemer statue in Rio -- then the focus will change again.

:)


Or news outlets tells us of reptilians mowing down hundreds of human special forces on Mars... Even Simon Parkes comments on that. He states that reptilians were just defending their right... Does anybody know more on that? Look at the video at 1:03 min mark.

Simon Parkes - The Great Shift Really Begins 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryo6p64b2i0

I like Alfred AH um Webre but Um Ah can not Ah um get passed ah his um Ah slow Ah .....speech ahhh

[cuitlahuac]

LRH says ...what is true for you is true for you ... it is what you have experienced and seen for yourself ... if you lose that you have lost everything ,..

I have the same trouble believing that I am doing the postulates ... but another thing LRH said is ... that if you put the thought out before it happens then take a win you would at least have to been co-creator of it,
now what I know as fact ... is the rain stopping between 2 traffic signals a block apart ... and the immediate thoughts that happened after that .. the getting of the guitar .. the rain hit the windshield the instant the door closed after I told the girl it will not rain until we get in a car ,,, when the driver stopped to pick us up and said, "i've never picked up a hitch hiker in my life"
when I see this kind of phenomenon I know I am doing it .. but I still can't prove it to this body because this body wants to see the mechanics ... it wants to see what kind of energy the spirit is putting out and how he is putting it out that made the thing happen

when a complete stranger comes up to me and knows my name in bangkok and says "jim you have to go back to USA ... " and I say why and he says "there is a heat wave that killed 800 people" ... now he didn't say I did it ... but the moment he said it I thought "OMG i must have created that when I left Los Angeles and thought how hot thailand would be.
still the body can not see it .. wants to know the mechanics ... and this metteyya thing ... "OMG ..I am metteyya ??? ...what the hell am I going to do with that???? ..no one will believe me" ...

so I have solved this for myself ...in a valid way that will not stop me from being me. I just say .. ok .. it is possible I am doing all this ... and that I can really see some of my thoughts are impossible to NOT BELIEVE ... so I accept the possibility ... with the hope that in the future I will learn the truth of all of it ...
then I can do all my postulates and take a win if they all happen after I postulated it and keep practicing in wonderment ... but it does not stop me from expanding as a being because some implant in me keeps coming up and trying to invalidate the episode ... as BS ... it happens too much and too close sometimes to be BS ... and when it is happening in present time in my immediate vicinity and I try to stop it and feel myself REALLY CONNECT to the weather and watch it violently react to anything I try to put in it from my hand motions .. I immediately have to pull back and say to myself .. "ok I am doing this ... but I don't see what I am doing so I don't know how to control it that well" .. but this doesn't stop me ... I just have to make sure I find the best words and description of what I want to occur and see if I can do it better ... still knowing this body of mine will not believe it ... the things I KNOW ARE TRUE . is when i put out a kind of extension of myself (spirit) and hook on to a piece of this reality .. and pull on it and the wind starts up ... I can actually feel it ... but it doesn't happen all the time ...
we are setup with these implants to NOT LEARN WHO WE ARE AND OBTAIN OUR ABILITIES ... and I haven't seen these implants .. I only read of them ... but I see when I speak to people that it really stirs something inside them ... so I know .. they are looking at something they don't want stirred up ... or the implant stirs it up and something is going on inside that is upsetting them when you just made phenomenon ... and it shakes them up literally and you will have angry japanese angry at you for creating a typhoon and THEY KNOW you did it ... apparently

all I say is that all these processes were designed so you can see ... and validate it yourself ... you can try the postulates using the book as a guide ... and maybe cause a miracle .. and if the miracle happens don't be so anxious to invalidate it .. you will be invalidating yourself ... leave it for the future ... decide to experience it in the hope some day you will be able to see what you are really doing

jim

Here jiminii states he is Metteyya. The problem is that Hubbard wrote a book, Hymn of Asia, where he asks the question "Am I Metteyya?" and implies he can be and he has to offer the "lessons" (Scientology technology). The book also has information of what the mission of Metteyya was to be here on Earth. What I remember of the book is that Metteyya appears on Earth when there's need for him to protect mankind.

http://c2.bibtopia.com/h/047/253/521253047.0.m.jpg

http://wiseoldgoat.com/images/lrh/pubscovers/advance!-27-cover_dec-74.jpg

‘Advance! 27’, Dec 1974 finally introduced the publication ‘Hymn of Asia, An Eastern Poem’.


Hymn of Asia reveals a climatic moment in Man's spiritual history and foretells a future Man has waited 2,500 years for.
2,500 years ago a great prophecy was made that a golden-haired Westerner would develop Scientology and make total freedom possible. Hymn of Asia is the full story of that prophecy and its incredible fulfillment.
But above all Hymn of Asia is Ron's most personal and intimate statement. In Hymn of Asia Ron tells you who he is, why he has come, what his personal feelings are with regard to Western civilization, what his plans are for the future.

Further in Hymn of Asia you'll discover Ron's practical, down-to-earth instructions for creating a new cultural renaissance of Earth, a new golden age.
First written some 18 years ago for a Buddhist Convention celebrating the 2,500th anniversary of Buddha's life, L. Ron Hubbard waited until 1974 to publish the work as a full length book.
Through the years unauthorized and inaccurate typewritten copies were passed around by hand. The demand for full publication grew enormous. It became the most sought-for unpublished work of its day.”


“SUMMARY OF THE METTEYA LEGEND


Thus, we find these are the most salient details of the Metteya legend.


1. He shall appear in the West.

2. He shall appear at a time when religion shall be waning, when the world is imperiled and convulsed in turmoil.

3. He will have golden hair or red hair.

4. He will complete the work of Gautama Buddha and bring in a new golden age of man by making possible the attainment of spiritual freedom by all beings.

5. Although the date of his advent is variously forecast, the nearest date places it
2,500 years after Gautama Buddha – or roughly 1950 (the date of Gautama’s own life being somewhat of an estimate itself).”

[cuitlahuac]

For the "new wave" of walk-outs establishing themselves as "Indies" or "Independents" and joining Ron's Org and the Freezoners in their "efforts" (not so much efforts anymore since Miscavige doesn't have a foot left to shoot) to spread Ron's "tech" in their vicinity:

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/

On the right hand side there is a blogroll of independents.

Marty himself, as well as his wife Monique AKA "Mosey" are auditors sticking to the original tech and approach to life.

Marty Rathbun and the American independent field are not the Freezone. Capt Bill Robertson, the creator of the freezone explains it in his briefing. The American independent field was mainly created with David Mayo, but they soon discredited Hubbard's Scientology. They main attitude is: '**** ethics tech', '**** administrative tech'.

The main advanced tech of David Mayo was New Era for OTs, but he was raided by police on orders of CoS and the Advanced Ability Centers vanished. Now the American independent field is a loose group of lone individuals very critic of Scientology ethics, Scientology administrative technology and antipathetic to organizations.

I have had contact with their groups in Facebook and they are very service to self, hate ethics and admin and orgs, while exhibiting a facade of following standard Scientology.

As regards Marty. He was not grown in Scn. I don't know how come he got into upper management. He was a victim of Chairman Miscavige's beatings. What he did in Scn management prior to his exit indicates he didn't understand basic Scientology.

When Marty and Mike Rinder left CoS, they were presented to the independent field as leaders and heroes, but that would be like presenting Borman (Hitler's right hand) and Hitler's Gestapo chief as heroes just for leaving the nazi party. They would more probably be lynched instead. And that is what happened to Marty and Rinder.

If you read Marty's blog, he discredits Hubbard Scientology technology and he never mentions the takeover by the USA government. This might indicate he is conducting a psy-op in the independent field.

The only 'blooming' group in American independent Scientology are those altering the technology to fit their pockets or to destroy standard Scientology, collectively called squirrels. Sorry to say, but the American Scientology independent field is a ghetto of disaffected squirrels. Similar to what happens with the general American public. They are a bunch of slaves and victims of the NWO now in the process of electing their next NWO dictator to **** the rest of the world.

Note: Of course there is valuable standard tech Scientology practitioners individuals in the American Independent Scientology field that apply standard ethics and don't hate organizations.

[cuitlahuac]

ok I found the phoenix lectures all on mp3 files
got the pilot from free zone .. with excaliber all of it
i got life continuum all on mp3 files
I got source of life energy
science of survival
technique 88
thought emotion
thought emotion effort
all on mp3 files

I got more somewhere else
whay do I do with them

jim

Put the links.

[cuitlahuac]

I had an aha moment once which may or may not be related to this. I was watching a James Randi video. In case this name is not familiar to you, he's the guy who offers a million dollars to anyone who can actually demonstrate any sort of psychic phenomenon. He wants to prove it is all lies. Many have tried, none (to date) have succeeded.

Anyway, I was watching one of his videos, and I notice something. Randi controls the space! The psychic is NOT in normal universe space. He is in Randi's space. In Randi's space, psychic phenomenon doesn't work. Because he has so determined. To win this prize, one would have to figure out how to maintain their own space while working with him.

That's what I suspected. The Amazing Randy puts his anchor points (points put in the universe to create ones space) and prevents other beings from achieving his postulates (intentions to create an effect).

The Amazing Randy is the best example of a person with supernatural spiritual powers, in this case used to suppress.

Thanks a lot.

[cuitlahuac]

[...]


Since Amzer Zo says that a HK session sounded to him as a Dianetics session with all its communications components, it might be fair at least to mention that HK does not use any external devices such as an e-meter.

[...]

As jiminii mentioned, "Book One" sessions are done without an e-meter.

Listening to Steve Richards recounts of some sessions, the parallels between Book One sessions and HK sessions are uncanny.

On the other hand, surrogate sessions are not part of the original Book One. However, HK surrogate sessions involve what jiminii talked about with "being the space" of the other person being processed and also involved surrendering the control of one's own space to another being in order for the surrogate session to take place.

That's not much different than jim being "audited"/processed via another body of his on "Base 2."

yes you audit one of the viewpoints and the other viewpoints get it too ... even if they are not aware of it .. life just starts changing for them because the viewpoint is not the spirit .. it is like putting on a helmet and this helmet takes over the body and feels and controls it .. but it is just one viewpoint of one body ... the spirit can create many and I guess it depends on how big the spirit is ..


jim


On the other hand, this is also akin to "Bodies in Pawn" whereby someone, somewhere, somehow is hypnotized and ordered to take on a reptilian shape, then go to Washington DC and take over la Clinton when she is under the influence of that white stuff -- courtesy of her husband -- and make her do silly thing to discredit her... etc...


Excerpts (fair use) from various LRH lectures which give other ways to "occupy" more than one body:

Body in pawn: Something floating in fluid or under an electronic -- constant electronic bath. You'll find these described: They're lying on a pallet or something of the sort; the body is completely motionless. And at the foot of this will be something that looks like a window, and it's not a window. (This is at the origin of most of these abductions stories...)

Occasionally you'll run into a place where they're holding a body in pawn. That is, a body is held here, and it is hypnotized or knocked out and the person is told that he belongs here but must go over here and live. You know, a guy in Afghanistan is hypnotized and they say: "Now you live in Bremerton, Washington" and he'd go to Bremerton, Washington; he's under compulsion. A hypnotist will hypnotize somebody and make him travel or astral walk. Hypnotists know about this. Well, they didn't realize you could do it with magnitude, and you can. You can almost move the whole individual out.


Let me tell you some of the things that can be done to a human being, and understand that I am still talking about theta bodies because there's not any difference except a human being and his mind as he exists today - Homo Sapiens - it's just more of them.

You can hypnotize a human being or drug a human being and move him as a theta body, in all or in part, to remote distances and have him observe or act or communicate and move back to his body again. This has many descriptive phrases such as "astral walking". The point is that you can actually hypnotize yourself, this is one theta body hypnotizing another theta body inside yourself and send that other theta body off to some vast distance and observe something and have it come back and so on.

This is very common. Your hypnotist knows this manifestation very well. These are very elementary, quite well known manifestations. Self hypnosis is one line hypnotizing another line - in you.





On the other hand, this is also akin to "Bodies in Pawn" whereby someone, somewhere, somehow is hypnotized and ordered to take on a reptilian shape, then go to Washington DC and take over la Clinton when she is under the influence of that white stuff -- courtesy of her husband -- and make her do silly thing to discredit her... etc...


Excerpts from various LRH lectures which give other ways to "occupy" more than one body:

Body in pawn: Something floating in fluid or under an electronic -- constant electronic bath. You'll find these described: They're lying on a pallet or something of the sort; the body is completely motionless. And at the foot of this will be something that looks like a window, and it's not a window. (This is at the origin of most of these abductions stories...)

Occasionally you'll run into a place where they're holding a body in pawn. That is, a body is held here, and it is hypnotized or knocked out and the person is told that he belongs here but must go over here and live. You know, a guy in Afghanistan is hypnotized and they say: "Now you live in Bremerton, Washington" and he'd go to Bremerton, Washington; he's under compulsion. A hypnotist will hypnotize somebody and make him travel or astral walk. Hypnotists know about this. Well, they didn't realize you could do it with magnitude, and you can. You can almost move the whole individual out.


Let me tell you some of the things that can be done to a human being, and understand that I am still talking about theta bodies because there's not any difference except a human being and his mind as he exists today - Homo Sapiens - it's just more of them.

You can hypnotize a human being or drug a human being and move him as a theta body, in all or in part, to remote distances and have him observe or act or communicate and move back to his body again. This has many descriptive phrases such as "astral walking". The point is that you can actually hypnotize yourself, this is one theta body hypnotizing another theta body inside yourself and send that other theta body off to some vast distance and observe something and have it come back and so on.

This is very common. Your hypnotist knows this manifestation very well. These are very elementary, quite well known manifestations. Self hypnosis is one line hypnotizing another line - in you.



download the time track of theta tapes if you can find them on free zone somewhere
the commands for auditing are on the tapes ... and that is what trey audited me with.
it isn't what is in the standard line up .. because if trey is an Flag service org auditor class 12
he knows all the auditing that is done ... and this was the first time he has ever done these auditing commands from those tapes
and I think I know why ... LRH didn't want them ran ... because it would be easy to see what we were doing everywhere ..
and someone might find out we are running this piece of the time track again and try to interrupt it ..

so if you want to know look ... don't suddenly come up with some other why if you haven't checked the data I am talking about

jim



[...]

... don't suddenly come up with some other why if you haven't checked the data I am talking about

jim

It's something which needs to be checked too, jim.


yes since I am probably the only one on the planet anyone ever ran those auditing commands ,. the same phenomenon that inelia describes ... with all the light coming in and finding her right after ,..
it is like driving down that road and something puts the foot of mine on the brake so the car we can't see doesn't hit us

I can almost touch it ,.... but this website is awesome ... so many viewpoints ...

I thank you all ... for helping me to wake up ...

I admit I have been a bit cocky at some time ... but I don't need to anymore ... I can let that go ... found some friends that can somehow relate ..

nice
jim

This is the auditing command jiminii refers: "Is there somebody else holding your abberations in place?"


Quote:
What's quite remarkable about all of the research in which I have been engaged is it hasn't flashed up anyplace else. And that's remarkable! It has not come up anyplace else on earth. On earth. (laughter)

But this jealousy of identities was such, actually, that in the early days when I was working on this I was experiencing a terrific anxiety. I knew the next five minutes somebody was going to appear on the stands with this first book I wrote on the subject. You see, I knew somebody else knew. I knew somebody else was working on it too. And they were. But not here on earth. Anyway ... (laughter)

Well now, what I'm talking to you about, you'll find applicable. There are preclears [person undergoing Scientology councelling] right here in this audience that are sort of vaguely "not me." And it's kind of "not me" a little bit. And they think to themselves, "Well, any moment now I'll be me." But you start them up the line, you get them going a little bit further and evidently something kind of bats them down again. You can't figure out what's batting them down... Put them on the machine [e-meter that measures mental states and changes in mental states] and simply ask them this question: "Is there somebody else holding your abberations in place?" [abberations, departures from rationality]

It says "Yes" - bang, machine operates.

"Where is this person?" and there'll be a little twitch, and you'll ask him - well, according to continents, Earth, anyplace else, stars, so on.

All of a sudden, BOW, you'll get something. Maybe the fellow is in Birmingham or something of the sort, and you've got across on the line. Well, the second you get this awareness, two things may start to happen. You may start to pick up the fellow's engrams [moments of pain and unconsciousness recorded by the reactive mind] from Birmingham. And if you do, go ahead and run them... You see, it's theta, [spirit] it's facsimiles, [mental image recordings] and they've got, actually, banks [archive of mental image in the mind] in common.

Well, your preclear has never had, really, this feeling of "I am." He never quite had this feeling, "I am." He always has this feeling, "Well, I might be if ..." Well, that "I might be if," is he's just a little bit off the line back to the main individual. He's just a little bit off the line.

You can put him back on the line again. You'll have to jockey him around a little bit, and the next thing you know, why, he'll be responding up as an individual. Nothing much to it. He will go through a period of worry.

...

There is a mystic practice of concentrating until you get a visio. And you'll get visios in far cities, in far places, without doing any teleportation of yourself or your soul or anything of the sort. You just lie down and concentrate and get a visio. And you'll get a visio of your - of doing something. Some of this is accounted for simply by, all of a sudden, being the other you - being the other you.

There are probably as many as four or five fellows on earth that are almost my duplicate, for instance, physiologically. Almost - poor fellows. Now, one of these fellows used to get me in trouble all the time.
End Quote:

TIME TRACK OF THETA (HISTORY OF MAN) LECTURES 3/4

HISTORY OF MAN SERIES 3: THETA AND GENETIC LINES OF EARTH

Titled "HISTORY OF THE THETA LINE" in R&D 10.

Lecture 20A of the Hubbard College Lectures (HCL-20A) of 10 MAR 52, also issued as the third cassette of the Time Track of Theta series.

Edited 27 feb to define terminology.

[cuitlahuac]

I will try to clear up some confusion here
a thetan by definition is the spirit itself ... but the spirit itself is a static ... it has no motion .. no wavelength no mass no energy no space and no time ... it is like a complete black void (or can be white .. I've seen both) ok the thetan is outside this universe . and every thetan (spirit) that is operating inside this universe is outside this universe (MEST matter energy space and time universe) .. all of them are outside creating this universe (MEST) .. so it is like they have to put a pin hole into this physical universe to see what is inside ... this is a viewpoint ... now this is what most people think of as the spirit that looks like a golden ball next to the body it is managing .. the viewpoint is not the thetan (spirit) it is a creation by the spirit to have a place to view from ... ok if you are outside the body .. you are viewing from the viewpoint itself .. if you are inside the body your viewpoint has been shifted to use the eyes and ears of the body and all it's perceptions ... it takes awhile to do this .. I heard from 49 days to 51 days something like that .. where there is a image of a body they wrap this viewpoint around to thoroughly shift it's viewpoint to needing a body to operate in and when it takes on a body it's viewpoint is shifted from the viewpoint to the body eyes and perceptions ...

just look at the viewpoint like you look at the idea of a spirit .. next to the body ... but it is not the spirit .. the spirit is outside this universe .. the viewpoint is a creation by the spirit to be able to look inside this universe ... and the spirit outside this universe can make more than one viewpoint ... this means it can run more than one timeline

any questions?

jim

jiminii is commenting on what is in Scientology The Axioms and The Factors.

[The Freedom Train]

I am so happy to hear that you managed to get out and that your strength of spirit persisted despite their attempts to mind control and manipulate you. Fantastic story!

[muxfolder]

AJ0-VeWMr-A


Leah Remini is an actress, producer, author, and comedian. Her new show "Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath" is a documentary series that can be seen on A&E.

[uzn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-9qUjE40wM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yAqoydzMB4

[7alon]

Hi Bill,

Would cleansing your chakras have a similar effect?

Sorry for cartoon, but it describes the process well :P

StrbppmsZJw

[Bill Ryan]

Hi Bill,

Would cleansing your chakras have a similar effect?

Sorry for cartoon, but it describes the process well :P

StrbppmsZJw

Well, it's a very good cartoon! :)

The summary of the steps taken to cleanse the chakras (in the 1-7 sequence, quoting the video), is


Release your fears.
Release all blame and guilt within you. Forgive yourself.
Release all your letdowns and disappointments. Accept and love all aspects of who you are, even your mistakes.
Release all your sadness and loss.
Release your denial and the lies you tell yourself.
Release all illusions within yourself.
Release all your earthly attachments. Let go of all you've grown to love.

So yes, many other kinds of processing will help accomplish that.

The core thing here is that (taking #1 as an example) "Release your fears" is easy to say, but for most, very hard to do. Processing (of any kind) is simply a support structure to assist one to do that.

[7alon]

Well, it's a very good cartoon! :)

The summary of the steps taken to cleanse the chakras (in the 1-7 sequence, quoting the video), is


Release your fears.
Release all blame and guilt within you. Forgive yourself.
Release all your letdowns and disappointments. Accept and love all aspects of who you are, even your mistakes.
Release all your sadness and loss.
Release your denial and the lies you tell yourself.
Release all illusions within yourself.
Release all your earthly attachments. Let go of all you've grown to love.

So yes, many other kinds of processing will help accomplish that.

The core thing here is that (taking #1 as an example) "Release your fears" is easy to say, but for most, very hard to do. Processing (of any kind) is simply a support structure to assist one to do that.

Apologies Bill and Everybody, I should have elaborated on the video's content as you have done here. Thank you. :)

[Chris Williams]

I'll make this quick and dirty.....the human weirdness of Scientology and L.Ron Hubbard is too much for me to take even under the wide umbrella of spiritual and scientific inquiry you propose.....pseudoscience at is most despicable(wrapped up in money grubbing,intimidation and a mafia-like social posture). I would not want to sift through their mud looking for takeaway wisdom/knowledge anymore than I would sift through NAZI thought and propaganda looking for the same......please take me off your membership roll asap.....Chris williams

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Trump thinks Scientology should lose its tax-exempt status

Thought I'd lump this in here, being probably the most suitable place to put it. Much of this 'claim' would seem to be based on hearsay, but it's still an interesting nugget. If you imagine the implications of the CoS losing its 'Church' status, then boom! in my opinion. Game over for them. They are sunk.

--
From Huffpost: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/trump-scientology-tax-exemption_us_5a04dd35e4b05673aa584cab

President Donald Trump believes the Church of Scientology should have its tax exemption revoked, a longtime family aide and current top official at the Department of Housing and Urban Development told an actress and producer [Leah Remini] in May.

In an unsolicited Twitter message, Lynne Patton, who has worked for the Trump family since 2009, told actress Leah Remini of Trump’s position and said she would interface with the IRS directly to seek more information in an effort to initiate revocation. Remini sent HuffPost copies of Patton’s messages and has declined to comment further.

It’s not clear if Patton ever communicated with the IRS. But if Trump did express an opinion on the church and Patton did contact the IRS about it, as her message suggests, that would be a highly inappropriate level of interference with the IRS by the administration, one expert said.

“For the White House or any administration official to try and influence who the IRS targets, for whatever reason, is wrong and could result in a violation of the law,” said Larry Noble, the former general counsel of the Federal Election Commission who is now a senior director of ethics and general counsel at the Campaign Legal Center. “The IRS must make these decisions independently without any influence by the White House or administration officials.”

‘This Is Going To Get Done In The Next 4 Years’

Remini is a successful television actress who starred on the CBS hit sitcom “King of Queens” for nine years. She is also a former longtime member of the Church of Scientology. Since she left the church in 2013, she has dedicated most of her time to exposing abuses she and other members have faced. In 2016, A&E aired a docu-series about the church that Remini starred in and produced, called “Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath.”

(for context):
o4f3rrDXJbw

In “Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath,” Remini, along with a former top church official Mike Rinder, uses interviews and documentary evidence to try to document abuses perpetrated by church leadership. The first season of the docu-series won an Emmy Award, and the second season is currently airing.

http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/5a04ded41f000028004a5168.jpeg

In 1993, in a controversial decision, the IRS granted the church and over 150 entities associated with it tax-exempt status. Days after the decision, Miscavige, whom more than 100 members have accused of various abuses, stood on a stage at the Los Angeles Sports Arena in front of 10,000 Scientologists. At the end of a long speech, Miscavige shared the news of the IRS decision, and declared “the war is over” to loud cheers by attendees.

http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/5a04df921c00003b00b34258.jpeg
Miscavige

The decision did indeed provide the cloak of legitimacy that Hubbard had wished for. The significant contributions members must make to the church are now tax-exempt. (In order to move up in the spiritual ranks, members spend $500,000 or more.) The exemption has also given the church an effective attack line when dealing with critics. Responding to allegations of slave labor and church-ordered punishment, members and staff cite religious freedom as the reason those allegations should not be further explored. The church and its staff members will often call reporters and critics “bigots” when they question the church’s policies or actions.

The tax exemption has also enriched the church greatly. The church uses its income to buy real estate that largely remains empty and to fund operations to attack its critics.

Not Trump’s Decision

An IRS decision to revoke the church’s tax exemption would be an arduous one, and would involve scores of officials. It is not a choice the president can make, according to two former top IRS officials who spoke to HuffPost. The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they represent clients who have matters before the IRS and don’t want to interfere in those matters by speaking publicly to a reporter.

According to an excerpt from the IRS website, “The IRS may begin a church tax inquiry only if an appropriate high-level Treasury official reasonably believes, on the basis of facts and circumstances recorded in writing, that an organization claiming to be a church or convention or association of churches may not qualify for exemption.”

After that inquiry is initiated, IRS agents would handle an investigation in the field. The decision on whether to revoke often rests with those agents and their supervisors, who report to the deputy commissioner of the IRS Tax Exempt and Government Entities Division...

[Icare]

Dear Bill,

thank you for putting up this thread. It took me hours and hours to read it and check up some of the valuable links (I have now read that really interesting book about telepathy by Ingo Swann, as it started like a thriller I couldn't put it down).

For me this thread is quite fascinating reading, at times a little painful, at times bringing back some powerful memories.

I unsuccessfully tried accessing Book One which you provided a link for, but for some reason it does not work any more. So if there is any possibility you could put in a new link, this would be much appreciated.

I also tried checking out Ron's Org for which you provided a link,too. That one did not work any longer either. I hope that doesn't mean it no longer exists.

I would like to ask you if there is still a chance of doing a course with Ron's Org in Germany.

I'm currently reading the transcripts of Hubbard's Philadelphia Doctorate Course tapes (as suggested in the Dane Tops interview), have listened to several original Hubbard tapes from the 1950es on Youtube and plan reading 'A Handbook for Self-Enlightenment' which was linked somewhere here on this thread next.

After all this reading I have a recognized at least one definite engram I need to get rid of. Actually I believe if I somehow managed to get rid of that one, alll the others would be a lot easier to drop.

Is it theoretically possible to ask for an audit for just such a special engram or would I have to go through the whole series of things which would take years?

[Bill Ryan]

I unsuccessfully tried accessing Book One which you provided a link for, but for some reason it does not work any more. So if there is any possibility you could put in a new link, this would be much appreciated.

All here! (And thanks, I'll edit the link :thumbsup: )


http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scientology


I also tried checking out Ron's Org for which you provided a link,too. That one did not work any longer either. I hope that doesn't mean it no longer exists.

Wow, I'll edit that, too.


https://ronsorg.com


I would like to ask you if there is still a chance of doing a course with Ron's Org in Germany.

Absolutely. Try Ron's Org Frankfurt. I know some of the folks there, and they're very fine people.


http://rons-org.de/de/kontakt.html

Avalon Member James Newell (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?30394-James-Newell) is also highly trained and experienced. He's based in the US, but works over Skype with people all over the world. His website is http://getmoreable.com.


After all this reading I have a recognized at least one definite engram I need to get rid of. Actually I believe if I somehow managed to get rid of that one, alll the others would be a lot easier to drop.

Is it theoretically possible to ask for an audit for just such a special engram or would I have to go through the whole series of things which would take years?

Almost certainly, yes, you can immediately address what you most urgently need or want to. In auditing, the VERY first thing one does is a program which is called Life Repair. That specifically addresses anything at all that the person wants or needs to be handled.

The way it all works is that if you have strong attention on and interest in something, there's very likely to also be the most emotional charge held or trapped in there. It's that which determines what the optimum sequence of handling is.

In the rare occasions when this doesn't apply, an analogy is someone with a broken leg who also has a cut finger. If the incident that broke his leg is TOO traumatic, he just might not be able to face it straight away. So it could be best to handle the emotion of the cut finger first.... and then the broken leg trauma opens up to him after that.

It's all about what's accessible. Sometimes someone has a past life incident that's affecting them considerably, but they just can't get at it because other emotions are in the way. So you have to deal with those first, like clearing a path to get at the major thing.

I hope this all made sense! :) Do please ask any other questions you can think of, of any kind.

[Icare]

Things which happen to us in the past, we have a tenancy to dramatize unconsciously in the present.

Here is an example.....I am sure we've all seen Hollywood movies where one person points a gun at another and commands one to "freeze" while pointing a gun at him, and the other mindlessly obeys and remains motionless ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/JIMBO66664/funny-picture-1198824017_zps7da7e898.jpg

As children, many of us remember play acting this same script where we point a gun at another and tell them to, "freeze".

I think I have found the basic, fundamental, time and place from which all this originated.


Later when I audited others, they described similar incidences of freezing's to mine. So, I assume this incident was pretty wide spread?

I also believe that's how many of us arrived here on earth,.... in a frozen condition. I know I did!

So, if you have no reality on what I have posted here, or if it seems far fetched, just write it off as science fiction.

Not science fiction my friend. Have you heard of a healing method named "Somatics" The creator Peter A, Levine, His theory is that when someone experiences Trauma it is possible for the emotion experience to be frozen within the person. His healing method Melts the frozen trauma. He has a few books, One is Waking the Tiger, My good friend is going through this healing method. After 30yrs of struggling she at last has found a method that is working. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=waking+the+tiger+peter+levine+pdf&oq=Walking+the+Tiger+Peter+&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l3.44088j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Anyways your post reminded me, So thought i would share.

Peace

Thanks for sharing. I will look at the link when time permits. The freezing incidents which I have posed are form my past lives and past lives of others I have audited. Though some my border on OT level confidentiality. I remembered these from simple dianetic auditing with an e-meter. So it's OK!

There is a more detailed information on the freezing process and it ramifications. in LRH's Book, A history of MAN written in 1947 I believe? long before the advent of OT levels of Scientology.

People who have this engram of being frozen in restimluation have chronic cold hands and cold feet

There is some heavy duty, restimulating stuff in History of Man that I think LRH would have been happier if he had published it in the OT levels? It's that powerful.

Thank you for that link, what you described totally resonates with me and I will definitely look into it.

[Icare]

Dear Bill,

wow, that was a quick answer and yes, it totally makes sense to me.

Thank you so much, now I know at least where to begin because I'm sure that engram is the reason why I can't astral travel - yet. I keep thinking there will be no helper there on the other side and I'll be completely on my own which is probably complete rubbish but I do have that engram (of feeling there will never be anybody there for me when I need help). - Now I can work on this and drop it.

[Icare]

Dear Bill,

I have now finished reading the LRH thread as well. Phew, hard work and some harsh words.

I enjoyed reading what Jim has to say, I admire his optimism and his playfulness.


But now I have some more questions:

1. It has been said that Hubbard's books have been altered and one should try and buy a really old one. I managed to get a copy from 1985/1986. Is that old enough or should I try finding an even older one?


2. Jim kept mentioning we are the creators of the universe/s and I understand that in some way. But it sounds as if he lbelieves there is no such thing as the original Source (what I used to refer to as God).
Having a Chistian background, though a very open-minded one, I find myself unable to accept that. When I consider that we are all parts or sparks of Source and we are all one ultimately, I still believe that the whole is more than its parts (like a melody can be more than the single notes). What is your take on that?


3. Jim says by reading/doing dianetics alone one can become clear, so obviously I'm going to try. But he also says not everyone is a thetan. What does one do if one finds out one is actually not a thetan?
What then?

Love,
Icare

[Bill Ryan]

1. It has been said that Hubbard's books have been altered and one should try and buy a really old one. I managed to get a copy from 1985/1986. Is that old enough or should I try finding an even older one?Everything started to be altered round 1982. Bill Robertson drew the line at that year, that the only materials he would ever use or refer to in his ongoing research were 1981 or earlier.


2. Jim kept mentioning we are the creators of the universe/s and I understand that in some way. But it sounds as if he believes there is no such thing as the original Source (what I used to refer to as God).
Having a Chistian background, though a very open-minded one, I find myself unable to accept that. When I consider that we are all parts or sparks of Source and we are all one ultimately, I still believe that the whole is more than its parts (like a melody can be more than the single notes). What is your take on that? The only honest answer is that I don't know! Most certainly, back in the mists of time (and there have been many universes, LONG before the 'Big Bang', which is relatively recent if it happened at all!), we were all god-like beings with immense power and ability. Our current state is a very fallen, small and restricted one. What happened before that, I have no strong idea.


3. Jim says by reading/doing dianetics alone one can become clear, so obviously I'm going to try. But he also says not everyone is a thetan. What does one do if one finds out one is actually not a thetan?
What then?Jim's talking nonsense if he ever said that. He always had a bit of a problem explaining things clearly, so maybe that's not what he meant!

A 'thetan' is simply a word for a soul or spirit. Nothing else. Hubbard coined the term because in everyday language, the words 'soul and spirit' are so very much misunderstood and misused. So he started from scratch, as it were, and used a new word which he defined clearly.

Every human has a soul or spirit as part of their composite make-up, and a soul or spirit (a 'thetan') is what YOU are. Guaranteed, with no exceptions! :) It's fundamentally eternal and indestructible, and has its own memory throughout all time, though all kinds of things can happen to it during its existence.