Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Well! There's no harm in being ambitious. :)

The thread title is a joke. My intention here is to lay some basic principles out clearly -- in terms of what is and what isn't. It's intended to be a kind of A-B-C-1-2-3. Any criticisms of what this is all about can go on to another thread. My purpose here is to explain stuff so that the critics are at least well-informed.

:)

This is about pragmatism. It's about what works: tools that are available for use. And, if this is appreciated, I'd quite like to share my personal experience, which is fairly extensive.

For reasons which I hope members and visitors alike will respect, I've always thus far kept this pretty much all compartmentalized from my work and my mission. That's because the mission is more important, and the topic of discussion here is ONLY about a set of tools that can assist one in tackling one's mission more effectively.

In the pages that follow I'll no doubt say that over and over again. This is about a set of tools which work. They really do, when used in ethical and skilled hands.

And you don't have to use them. There are many others. But some of you may be waiting for this information, and it would be small for me to withhold it all merely because I was concerned about the reception from detractors. This stuff can transform your life. (And, again, so can many other sets of tools. Make your choice: you're a free being.)

I undertake to you that I will tell the truth, will not distort anything, state clearly if there's something that *I* don't know or don't fully understand. So here goes.

***

I have never been in the Church of Scientology, and am considered by them to be one of their [B]enemies (http://projectavalon.net/The_Scientology_Enemies_List.pdf). I went there, in London, back in 1984 for a couple of weeks for some "Book One" auditing. (This was after I had done Werner Erhard's est Training, and was driven to discover where all of Erhard's extraordinarily powerful techniques came from. It was almost all scientology.)

"Book One" auditing is basic 1950-style auditing, based on Hubbard's seminal book, Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental Health. I can post it later in PDF format. There was no meter involved. The book was designed to enable "Mr and Mrs Everyman" to 'audit' each other with no reliance on any organization.

The Organization came later, after Hubbard was inundated with questions and requests for further information. He founded scientology (literally: "the science of knowing how to know") as protection from the American Medical Association, who wanted to hang Hubbard from the highest tree for "practicing psychotherapy without a license".

Hubbard was also loudly critical of psychiatric techniques and drug prescription, and so earned himself few friends in Washington. The 'Church' was never a religious organization. It was just a protective device. Jim Humble (also a ex-scientologist), the inventor of MMS, is doing exactly the same thing now, and calls himself a Bishop. Humble, like Hubbard, was just intent on not ending up in jail.

Back to my personal experience. I had 40 hours of "Book One Auditing", and was mightily impressed, It cut through my life junk like a knife through butter. And then when I looked around me, saw the 'Church' environment and the quality of the people involved, I realized straight away that something was badly wrong.

As synchronicity would have it, I immediately met someone who had left the Church who told me about the 'Free Zone', and explained about the takeover a few years earlier. All was explained. After that I never returned, and never looked back.

I opened up my past lives, cleared the backlog of charge from this-lifetime upsets, and started to develop my suppressed abilities. The principle here is one of "negative gain". One removes emotional charge, like scrubbing burned food off a dirty pan, and underneath -- guess what! -- it's all bright and shiny.

The abilities were there all along, but were suppressed underneath the mountain of collected stuff. All of that is the by-product of incomplete business.

I discovered for myself the following:

We humans are all in a 'fallen state'. Long, long ago, we all used to -- as beings -- be gods, as it were: creators, manifesters, dolphins playing together joyfully in the universal sea. As we accumulated more and more unfinished business --- basically, things that we'd not taken responsibility for and never cleaned up -- we 'solidified' until we can no longer remember who we are or the way things once were. And we've all been around for WAY longer than the 'Big Bang'.

Auditing, which is a simple, structured, question-and-answer process ('auditing' simply means 'listening'), removes this 'emotional charge', and these blocks. Gradually -- in most cases, over a period of years -- one starts to remember and recover who one really is.

Nothing is judged or evaluated by the auditor (or should be). One's realizations are all one's own. The sovereignty of one's experience is (or should be) paramount.

The e-meter is a tool, like a pendulum but far more exact, that assists the auditor in locating areas of 'available' charge. In itself it does nothing. The meter is not even necessary, but it does help the auditor to locate 'stuff' more precisely.

There's a kind of sequence involved. At first, in the earliest stages of auditing, in most cases one is focused on one's life as a human being: issues with family, work, the usual things that people might talk to a counselor about.

But as these problems get handled, one's attention almost always goes on to larger and deeper issues: Who am I? Where did I come from? What am I doing here on Planet Earth? What is my personal mission? How can I best help others?

As one progresses, cleans more and more layers of charge off, and rehabilitates lost abilities, one acquires tools (which in other situations might be called 'white-magical' or 'good-shamanic') which enable one to assist others remotely at a distance.

These are not mysterious in any way, but are part of our lost birthright. We can all do this stuff. What one also realizes when these states are reached are that the same tools are used for evil purposes by those with dark agendas -- and have been for thousands of years here on this planet.

In that manner, the whole issue then becomes transformed from "How can I help myself so that life doesn't hurt so much?" to "How can I help defeat the forces of evil that are destroying the planet?"

Back to Hubbard. I never knew him (he was way before my time), but I did know 'Captain' Bill Robertson -- known as 'Captain Bill' or 'CBR' to his friends. CBR was a remarkable, totally ethical, and very powerful man. He twice wrote down the winning German lottery numbers, but refused to buy a ticket as he insisted that it would be unethical to use his abilities in that way. He had a huge presence, and was a natural leader and inspirer.

CBR left the Church in 1982, as part of the great exodus that was partly precipitated by Dane Tops. (Read his interview transcript here (http://projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.html).) CBR moved to Europe, founded what he called "Ron's Org" in 1984, and with another ex-Church and highly trained auditor, Ulrich Kramer, researched a number of missing techniques that LRH had either never discovered, or never made public. Those techniques opened the door to a great number of people to develop themselves in ways that they had never believed possible.

I myself connected with Ron's Org in 1988, and it was immediately obvious to me that this was the 'way out'. Now, Ron's Org primarily exists in Europe and Russia (astonishingly to many, there are more highly trained and able Ron's Org scientologists in Russia than anywhere else), though there are small groups of very highly trained people in America and South Africa. I know many of them personally. Some of them are the highest quality and most able human beings it has ever been my privilege to know.

Hubbard (LRH) was clearly a flawed man -- and many great people are. I am not qualified to judge him as a person or as a family man: only assess his legacy. My consideration of his legacy does not include the Church itself, which grew to became a huge aberration.

Hubbard's techniques -- the basics of which he mainly developed in the first few years of the 1950s, when he was at his most intuitively brilliant -- work, and can sometimes work miraculously. They take training and dedication to apply: but then (ask any Buddhist!), so do many other spiritual disciplines.

I'll pause here, and welcome all and any questions. I'll undertake to answer them all as best I can. I can maybe help interpret some (but not all!) of the story that Jim is trying to recount, and will do my best, bearing in mind that any interpretation of Jim's experience may not be fully correct. (I do not know him personally, but feel -- as do many others -- that he's trying to tell us something important. Don't throw away the mud without sifting it through for diamonds first.)

:)

[seko]

Bill, are you awake or in a trance when the auditor is asking the questions ??

How often can you practice this, daily, weekly??

[Bill Ryan]

Are you awake or in a trance when the auditor is asking the questions ??

100% totally awake. There's no relation to hypnosis.


How often can you practice this, daily, weekly??

As often as one wants to. Sometimes one can do several sessions daily.

One is also not dependent on an auditor. After a while, one can graduate to solo auditing, which is when one's auditing oneself totally at one's own determinism. It's like asking yourself a question, and then noting one's own answer. One does not have to talk to another person -- but it does take a little training and practice.

[CdnSirian]

Bill, thank you for explaining and simplifying this messed up charged up issue!

[Bill Ryan]

------

A little more in answer to seko above:


One can also do sessions with a distant auditor over Skype. (The meter can be with either person.)
When solo auditing, unless one is very experienced or highly qualified, one does need guidance on what to audit (i.e. what question-and-answer processes to 'run') from someone who is qualified and experienced and who understands what you're wanting to address.

[dpwishy]

Is this practical for the newer generations?
I have read it may not be needed for indigo children,
is this true?

[Bill Ryan]

Is this practical for the newer generations of us?
I have read it may not be needed for indigo children,
is this true?

I would say it's very practical (and so, again, may be many other support tools).

The problem when arriving on Planet Earth is the amnesia. Indigo Children often have quite a hard time of it (rejection by the other kids, and bad parenting when they're not at all understood. Many parents fear unusual children!).

Auditing is one of the tools that can assist Indigos and other prodigies (of any age) to remember who they are and why they're here.

Many may not need it! And some others will go very rapidly and cut through it all very fast, in ways that someone experiencing auditing in the 1950s might not dream of.

Another factor to remember is that some prodigies are simply new arrivals on Planet Earth. This can mean that they find a lot of 'human' stuff upsetting and bewildering. Auditing is a tool that can skim away the emotional charge from all of that.

A further factor -- and this may feel off-the-wall for some -- is that some gifted children got a lot of auditing in their last lifetime, which has helped them return in this incarnation in pretty good shape. Many teenagers and young people in their early 20s have appeared at the Ron's Orgs in Germany and Russia, and quickly discovered that they had been in the subject for many years in their last lifetime, now eager to continue.

Whether or not one believes this, this is what has been reported many times. It's rather like a Lama in Tibet returning to the monastery to continue their spiritual path after being reborn. This happens in many disciplines, of course, and is not confined to Buddhism or scientology.

[ghostrider]

I've heard that long ago, there was a problem with earths gravity wave, our ancestors did something and didn't correct the wave problem, the result , was a split mind... since that time, everyone born here is born with a split mind... it created a block to past lives ... when you can unite the mind=past lives stored in all of us is available... you remember what you forgot ... to me remebering past lives is important , look at what one can accomplish when you know all the wrong turns and wrong outcomes...I don't fully understand auditing, but it seems based on what you've said it is important, I'm going to research to see where fate leads me... thanks Bill... I love a treasure hunt ...

[TalkingFish]

Bill, thanks for sharing your viewpoint on this! A few quick (?) questions:

I remember a past post, when you mentioned finding pre-1970 Dianetics books to audit, but they aren't easy to come by. Would you mind sharing your PDF on Book One? Or do you have recommendations on legit auditing centers?

How does this relate to Dolores Cannon's method, if at all? When I couldn't find the original Dianetics book, I researched working with Cannon. Her waitlist is years long at this point and sadly, meeting with one of her student's teachers did not work for me. But I do wonder if there is any cross between.

Thanks! :)

[778 neighbour of some guy]

•When solo auditing, unless one is very experienced or highly qualified, one does need guidance on what to audit (i.e. what question-and-answer processes to 'run') from someone who is qualified and experienced and who understands what you're wanting to address.


Thanx for clearing up and giving your perspective Bill, the general forum is almost drowning on Sci threads so it seems to be a hot topic this past few weeks, and I avoided them because I am hopelessly ill informed about the subject, part because of the confusion about the pro and con povs on scientology and what I feel is a diluted or purposely kept back info, I am very interested in the auditing methodology in its self.

Some questions I have are, who is considered to be a good experienced auditor?
When is an auditor a good auditor and how can a newbie tell this is the case?
Auditing questions, do the auditor and audited agree upon a subject that needs/requires addressing?
Is there a checklist to walk one through top to bottom to streamline the process, is there a particular order in it or does one together with the auditor address what you bump in to?
Are there additional techniques one can use to make the process of unloading easier, like some breathing exercises, Reiki?

Can the process be similar to working with affirmations, I myself have a particular technique for this, I state an affirmation as an absolute positive, I write down what bubbles up from my mind or body and repeat 10 to twenty times until no more arguments against the absolute positive come up, meaning I have run out of arguments that prevented me to believe in the absolute stated affirmation, I went to the bottom of the pit and left no stone unturned by doing this.

Last question, what are the specific topics that need to be addressed according to scientology to regain consciousness of one selves true nature and nature of the universe as is?

Thanks in advance Bill.

Ed

[Bill Ryan]

Would you mind sharing your PDF on Book One?

Will do, with pleasure, when I get back to my backup disks in a few hours' time.


Or do you have recommendations on legit auditing centers?

http://ronsorg.com/english/linksenglish.htm

For contacts elsewhere, send me a PM and let me know where you are. Many are not listed on that page.


How does this relate to Dolores Cannon's method, if at all?

I'm afraid I have no strong idea. Many therapists practicing regression use variants of Dianetics, without even knowing that that's what they're doing. The technique is really extremely simple, so it's not surprising.

But it is important to work with someone you trust and feel at ease with. That may be more valuable than anything else -- apart from finding a person/technique that ONLY accesses your own knowingness about yourself -- and does not suggest ideas and perceptions of their own.

That's really critical. Or else you may find yourself 'front-loaded' by someone else's notions, and then when you come up with something yourself you'll never know whether it was your own memory or not. So in that sense, the regression methodology can make a real difference.

[Bill Ryan]

Some questions I have are, who is considered to be a good experienced auditor?

There's an accredited list: http://ronsorg.com/english/linksenglish.htm

But as I mentioned above, there are also many who are not listed there (including those in the US and South Africa). Send me a PM with your whereabouts, and I'll see if I can help.


When is an auditor a good auditor and how can a newbie tell this is the case?Great question. Personal recommendation would be the only real way, as in the case with many therapists.


Auditing questions, do the auditor and audited agree upon a subject that needs/requires addressing?There is almost always agreement (because the meter measures charge, and charge and personal attention are almost always closely linked). In other words, something you have a lot of attention on and really would like to be handled will almost certainly 'read' just as strongly on the meter. If there is any difference, then a good auditor would (or should!) always regard your own interest as senior and definitive.


Is there a checklist to walk one through top to bottom to streamline the process, is there a particular order in it or does one together with the auditor address what you bump in to?At first, in initial stages, the auditor will (or should) work with your interest. See above.

In almost all cases, one first completes what is known as "Life Repair" -- which is, as the name suggests, a general clean-up of people and events and incidents in one's life that have left charge behind. (These could include traumatic childhood incidents, losses, deaths of people you loved, relationship issues, heavy disappointments, physical injuries, etc.) Many people on completing Life Repair consider that their lives now feel very different, and this can take anything between 10-50 hours. (And that's a rather wild guess, as this is of course so individualized.)

Often, in Life Repair, past life stuff comes up. That's because incidents occur in 'chains', each sitting on top of and locked into an earlier one (if there IS an earlier one).

An example of this might be if one fell out of a tree when one was a child and broke one's leg, and no-one came to help. One could 'run' this incident, and it might 'erase' (i.e. the charge might vanish completely: this happens sometimes).

But often, the charge will NOT immediately vanish, because there's an earlier, similar incident. That might be in a previous life: an example might be when one fell off one's horse in a battle in the 15th century and no-one came to help. That might be similar enough to affect you.

When running the process, this older event would quite easily come up. One goes back, and back, and back, until one gets to what is called a 'basic' incident on that chain. When THAT is erased -- they ALL go. Like magic.

Here's how: (This little booklet was put together by the Church of Scientology, but all the information in it is good and valid.)

http://projectavalon.net/Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf

http://projectavalon.net/Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf

AFTER 'Life Repair' is completed, and you feel in pretty good shape, then there are recommended sequences for the next stages of 'clean-up', that go looking for stuff to handle that you might not be aware is there.


Are there additional techniques one can use to make the process of unloading easier, like some breathing exercises, Reiki?No drugs or alcohol before the session. 24 hours in the case of alcohol, and longer periods for some drugs (medical or recreational). That's because these stop auditing from working, as incidents will not 'erase' properly.

Sometimes people who have had a lot of experience in practices like yoga, meditation, reiki, and many other things, find that their perception is already opened up and therefore auditing can go very quickly. But one should not try to combine these things all at the same time, or everything gets confused and the auditor will not be able to assess what has caused what to clear. :)


Can the process be similar to working with affirmations, I myself have a particular technique for this, I state an affirmation as an absolute positive, I write down what bubbles up from my mind or body and repeat 10 to twenty times until no more arguments against the absolute positive come up, meaning I have run out of arguments that prevented me to believe in the absolute stated affirmation, I went to the bottom of the pit and left no stone unturned by doing this.Affirmations play no part in auditing processes, but certainly do no harm!


Last question, what are the specific topics that need to be addressed according to scientology to regain consciousness of one selves true nature and nature of the universe as is?It's mostly all about negative gain (see my first post). The more stuff is cleaned off the 'frying pan', the cleaner and shinier it will become. So it's a gradual, steady process -- unless one strikes lucky and uncovers a massive incident that unlocks a lot of stuff at once. This can sometimes happen, but it not predictable in advance. And one can get realizations -- sometimes huge, life-changing ones -- at absolutely any time.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Thank you Bill, I had the picture book for a while, but there is nothing like answers from a personal experiencer and felt like drowning in the other threads. I will let your answers weigh in on my decision to take a closer look at the subject matter, gracias.

[bennycog]

Hey bill,
When asking questions is it paramount to ask questions without contractions?
Example it's and don't to it is and do not.
Because it takes the meaning as the opposite?

[Bill Ryan]

Hey bill,
When asking questions is it paramount to ask questions without contractions?
Example it's and don't to it is and do not.
Because it takes the meaning as the opposite?

No, not at all... the questions are formed in regular conversational English. But they're usually quite precisely worded, and it's always checked whether or not you understand what is being asked.

[Sidney]

I have a question for Jiminii. when it comes to the gifts you have, the ones that able you to move hurricaines . hailstorms and the like, is this something that when you do it, is it a pre-meditated thing. Like do you say to yourself, how can I show someone I mean business, oh I will move a hurricaine, and then you do it. And when you are doing it, do you KNOW that it will happen, and does it work every time, or is it hit or miss. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't quite go the way you had hoped.

[Bill Ryan]

I have a question for Jiminii. when it comes to the gifts you have, the ones that able you to move hurricaines . hailstorms and the like, is this something that when you do it, is it a pre-meditated thing. Like do you say to yourself, how can I show someone I mean business, oh I will move a hurricaine, and then you do it. And when you are doing it, do you KNOW that it will happen, and does it work every time, or is it hit or miss. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't quite go the way you had hoped.

I can't answer this at all on Jim's behalf -- but you may want to take a quick look at the summary and reviews of this remarkable book:
The PK Man: A True Story of Mind Over Matter
http://amazon.com/The-PK-Man-Story-Matter/dp/1571741836

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41VcTmXfGqL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

http://amazon.com/The-PK-Man-Story-Matter/dp/1571741836#reader_1571741836
(http://www.amazon.com/The-PK-Man-Story-Matter/dp/1571741836#reader_1571741836)

[Sidney]

I have a question for Jiminii. when it comes to the gifts you have, the ones that able you to move hurricaines . hailstorms and the like, is this something that when you do it, is it a pre-meditated thing. Like do you say to yourself, how can I show someone I mean business, oh I will move a hurricaine, and then you do it. And when you are doing it, do you KNOW that it will happen, and does it work every time, or is it hit or miss. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't quite go the way you had hoped.


Hey never mind it looks like you already answered this here.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59041-LRH--L.-Ron-Hubbard-&p=676410&viewfull=1#post676410




I can't answer this at all on Jim's behalf -- but you may want to take a quick look at the summary and reviews of this remarkable book:
The PK Man: A True Story of Mind Over Matter
http://amazon.com/The-PK-Man-Story-Matter/dp/1571741836

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41VcTmXfGqL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

http://amazon.com/The-PK-Man-Story-Matter/dp/1571741836#reader_1571741836
(http://www.amazon.com/The-PK-Man-Story-Matter/dp/1571741836#reader_1571741836)

Thanks!!!!!Looks like a good one!!! Ebay 6.25 free shipping : )

[Bill Ryan]

I remember a past post, when you mentioned finding pre-1970 Dianetics books to audit, but they aren't easy to come by. Would you mind sharing your PDF on Book One?

Here, with pleasure.


http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scientology/Dianetics_The_Modern_Science_of_Mental_Health_DMSMH.pdf

http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scientology/Dianetics_The_Modern_Science_of_Mental_Health_DMSMH.pdf

[Hervé]

I remember a past post, when you mentioned finding pre-1970 Dianetics books to audit, but they aren't easy to come by. Would you mind sharing your PDF on Book One?

Here, with pleasure.

http://projectavalon.net/DMSMH.PDF



Hi Bill,

The link doesn't download anything but a 1Kb file and the PDF reader in your post gives the same result...

I hope you'll be able to fix it?

Thanks!

[Bill Ryan]

I remember a past post, when you mentioned finding pre-1970 Dianetics books to audit, but they aren't easy to come by. Would you mind sharing your PDF on Book One?

Here, with pleasure.


http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scientology/Dianetics_The_Modern_Science_of_Mental_Health_DMSMH.pdf



Hi Bill,

The link doesn't download anything but a 1Kb file and the PDF reader in your post gives the same result...

I hope you'll be able to fix it?

Thanks!

Apologies -- Fixed now. :)

[jiminii]

I remember a past post, when you mentioned finding pre-1970 Dianetics books to audit, but they aren't easy to come by. Would you mind sharing your PDF on Book One?

Here, with pleasure.

http://projectavalon.net/DMSMH.PDF



Hi Bill,

The link doesn't download anything but a 1Kb file and the PDF reader in your post gives the same result...

I hope you'll be able to fix it?

Thanks!

Apologies -- having trouble with the server upload. Will fix soonest, then re-post as soon as it works.

EDIT --> Fixed. :)

I ;am thinking we can make a group and call it research ..then we can decide what we want to put on the sight ...
because I need to clear some things about this nibiru and more ... I can almost hear the conversations up there .. but I don't know who it is ,,, it is like they are making the decisions but with who down here I don't have any good cogs

what you think?

jim

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

after Bill mentioned the "free zone" I was reminded of my own research on this topic,
kind of sad that I gave up on it when I found out about that...

sometimes it takes a while to find the right path.
i sincerely believe that many people have found meaning and purpose in their lives simply by practicing some of the things you guys are talking about.

personally, I have no experience of it.

[wegge]

Bill (or Jim?) do you know about Ken Ogger aka The Pilot, and if so, what are your thoughts about him and his works?

[mosquito]

Thanks Bill.

I hope everyone (especially those who have been getting irked by the recent discussions) understands Bills post here; these are tools, similar to many other, just using different names to describe the same things. They can be used for good or bad, and such use in no way reflects on the person who first devised the tools.

Since I've been a member here, there have been occasional forays into dianetics, which sounds like a subject I can really get to grips with. I greaty appreciate Bill posting his experience, and am especially grateful for the (rare) books.

[vje2]

Bill,

Thank you for the pdf that I was able to download without a problem (275 pages in total).

[Finefeather]

Hi Bill
Thanks for this information...
What part does the ego, as we usually think of it, play in the auditing process?

I am familiar with some regression techniques which address some current life blockages, like falling from a swing and been afraid of heights etc.
Now I do understand and fully agree with past life engrams and have found that...as an example of one person who died in a previous life from what we suspected to be falling off a mountain...that he was able to resolve this by going back up the mountain again...sort of...if you fall off a horse...get straight back on again, stuff.

These...once resolved will not usually address problems like arrogance and self serving attitudes.
I have been more active in this field of service where finding out who we are...not human beings but Spiritual Beings...seems to have great success.

So how does the auditing process uncover and resolve typical ego traits if the person is merely behaving in a manner which has been part of his long life upbringing? and hence....the point which puzzles me...how does auditing deal with the fact...and I am using this cautiously...that we choose our parents for a life which would best be in our interests to resolve 'flaws' in our character?

Take care
Ray

[Fred Steeves]

O.K. then Bill, after seeing the start of this thread,


Any criticisms of what this is all about can go on to another thread. My purpose here is to explain stuff so that the critics are at least well-informed.


I thought the only other way was to start yet another Scientology thread, as I'm done with "The Jim Show". :nod: But if you're now fielding "negative" questions as well, then here goes.




I am tired of answering all these negative guestions

anyone with negative questions i will not answer anymore
you can ask bill



Yep: send all your negative questions to me. :)

There's been numerous adjectives bandied about describing members who are ill at ease with the direction Avalon is suddenly taking, we are: "aggravating, negative, critics, opposers, ill informed, not being team players, etc."

So, I'll narrow it down to just one question, followed by a little bit of commentary: Just what constitutes a "negative" question in this case?

Is it a question that just shouldn't be asked? Is it a challenge to a claim or info given? Is it pointing out inconsistencies, discrepancies, or red flags, and asking how come? Is it an unconscious engram being restimulated, that simply needs to be audited? Is it wondering why the sudden avalanche of Scientology tech here, starting with the introduction of a previously unknown Scientology super hero? Is it wondering why we suddenly have to have a new leader figure to guide us young'uns out of the briar patch?

And now for the commentary part:

As many here probably know from my posts, which tend to be good humored, I like to enjoy a few frosty cold ones http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/cheers.gif in the evening, especially with some friends or company. But, if someone comes over and tries to force their own frosty cold beer down my throat I'm not going to like it, not one bit.

They are going to have some splainin to do, and I would not be in any mood to hear: "I'm tired of your negative questioning".

And finally, here's the bugger of it all. I ordinarily wouldn't mind one bit having an in depth and intelligent conversation about Scientology, especially with people who have experience with it. Having lived right next to FLAG central in Clearwater for most of my life, and having learned much about it in the process, I think it would be most interesting.

BUT, having now had that "frosty cold beer" shoved down my throat, not to mention the lurkers and new members as well, I'm more in "you got some splainin to do" mode. And you know what? That's most unfortunate, but it is what it is...

Please pardon this interruption folks. I'll await to read the answer to my question, and not disrupt this thread, nor the others again. :no:

Cheers,
Fred

[Bill Ryan]

I'am thinking we can make a group and call it research ..then we can decide what we want to put on the sight ...
because I need to clear some things about this nibiru and more ... I can almost hear the conversations up there .. but I don't know who it is ,,, it is like they are making the decisions but with who down here I don't have any good cogs

what you think?

jim

Jim: Nibiru -- as best as I've been able to find out, and this includes some 'insider' whistleblower information -- is probably a brown dwarf 'smaller twin' to our star, the sun. Our solar system seems to be very probably a binary system, as most solar systems in fact are.

This very hot object is not a planet, and nothing could live on it. Itself, it might have moons (or sub-planets) orbiting it, which may be solid or rocky. It's conceivable, though highly unlikely, that one of those might bear life.

This object would be a little larger (and probably quite a bit heavier) than Jupiter, and would currently be somewhere out there in the vicinity of Jupiter's orbit -- coming this way on an inbound elliptical orbit. That would suggest it'd become visible in a few years time, which is what I have heard. Bear in mind that it would NOT be easily visible with the naked eye, but would be strongly radiating in the infrared (heat) spectrum.

Meanwhile, any 'photos' of 'Nibiru' snapped with cellphone cameras, etc, are certainly sundogs (spectacular illusions caused by certain atmospheric phenomena). If this were visible at all, 10,000 amateur astronomers the world over, reporting to, responsible to, and paid by no-one, would all be screaming from the rooftops -- and competing with one another for the kudos of recognized first discovery.

'Nibiru' was made famous by Zecharia Sitchin, who claimed that the Anunnaki were riding around on it, waiting patiently for it to approach Earth again. This is certainly nonsense. The Anunnaki (who did and still do exist) have their own high-tech means of advanced space travel. They can (and do) come here any time they want to.

Strong advice: stick to reporting your own very interesting subjective experiences. Don't always try to connect them to other claims on the internet. If those are false or invented, then you may accidentally discredit yourself.

As I've mentioned before, there's a great deal of nonsense out there in the alternative media (such as 'Ascension' to the 'Fourth Dimension'). I agree with you that a pole shift will not happen, and might have been prevented. There remain other threats, though. We're not out of the woods yet.

[Prodigal Son]

Is it wondering why the sudden avalanche of Scientology tech here, starting with the introduction of a previously unknown Scientology super hero? Is it wondering why we suddenly have to have a new leader figure to guide us young'uns out of the briar patch?

When I read this, what immediately came to mind is that what we are seeing right now is something that will pass. I think Jim is overloaded with thoughts, knowledge and ideas and is feeling a need to do a data-flush upload. I notice that a lot of it is shooting from the hip, which is fine. We can all take it and pass it through our own filters. But I am fairly sure that he will not be able to keep up this pace. I don't wish for him to leave, no not at all, but the sudden barrage will come to an end, probably sooner rather than later.

That being said, on a site like Avalon, I would expect nothing less than for us to thoroughly cover the gamut of subjects from Alpha to Omega. This is merely one of them. PA will not suddenly become a Scientology website.

Maybe we can all take a....

http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/images/catalog/skus/l_fb-2090.png

;)

[Christine]

There's been numerous adjectives bandied about describing members who are ill at ease with the direction Avalon is suddenly taking, we are: "aggravating, negative, critics, opposers, ill informed, not being team players, etc."

Cheers,
Fred

Hi Fred,

Can I ask just one question? Where have these adjectives been bandied around? Context please, most important that we don't get into generalities here.

Please also be specific with the what you mean about "the direction Avalon has suddenly taken." Avalon as far as I can tell has sailed into murkier water than this and is still on course.

I grant that the subject is rather charged... all the more reason to speak with as much personal candor and with specifics.

As you also well know, questions that are true inquiries have always been welcomed, even on touchy subjects.

[jiminii]

I have a question for Jiminii. when it comes to the gifts you have, the ones that able you to move hurricaines . hailstorms and the like, is this something that when you do it, is it a pre-meditated thing. Like do you say to yourself, how can I show someone I mean business, oh I will move a hurricaine, and then you do it. And when you are doing it, do you KNOW that it will happen, and does it work every time, or is it hit or miss. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't quite go the way you had hoped.

in the beginning it was a game ....but very often people will invalidate it ... I would try to sincerely try to show people that they could do these miracles ... there are many ... like moving my hand near someones toothache and suddenly the toothache disappears ... or when I knew cathy at the health food store she was rolling over in pain on the floor ... and we both tried to follow the rules of healing by auditing like don't mix practices ... but she is on the floor screaming .. so I asked her if it is ok if I can help her my way and she said ok .. I moved my hand near her side between ribs and hips and the pain just blew and she jerked a bit.
so then she said, "hey the pains gone" but something inside me wanted to do more and I said, "let me move it more to the center " she jerked again and said, "something moved inside me" ... I said "I got to move it more to the center" and I did and she said, "it moved again .... jim ....jim ... I see white lines coming from your fingers " ... I didn't see the white lines ... and that night all this stuff came out of her in the toilet ... so it is something like this ... the being inside me sees something and somehow projects it to me and I get some reaction like I have to move it to the center ... this is the first time I moved something in someones' body and it was the last .... my head vanishing and me moving it down to the waist was the first time it happened and those 2 girls saw it .. and it was the last .... I could never remember the exact energy I was doing again ... but i remember when I did it .. I had known this before... the ghost fingers moving out the windows and moving the storm happened twice but the idea of it came in that moment ... didn't come from something I saw or read before .. it was an impulse of the being in me at the time .... all the things that happened in bangkok that was the moment of the time ... I didn't have access to an english newspaper ... so I didn't know what my weather was doing until I said, "I am putting storms up there ... I am going to slow them down" ... and he yelled ... "it's true ... it's true ... it's true ..all there tanks and equipment are in 4 feet of mud" most of it is like this .. in the moment ... a few are like when I really get disgusted at how vicious the enemy is so I assume I have to put my attention directly to their spirits saying "ok you want the planet I will give it to you but by the time you get it you won't want it " ... ok I know in the spirit world I can confront directly the enemy .. and I can put enough threat there that he will back off ... so I put more evil and destruction than those beings can have .. they see all the insurance companies folding up and all their assets being used up and it keeps going and later I found out that the storms were not only hitting all of US impossible results like 2 feet of snow in Washington DC ... all of Europe was being flooded too ... by december a few months later all the court cases were dropped on scientology ... too ... and they said "the war is over" ... but they retaliate now .. it is ok for them to create their HAARP ... so fighting with my weapons only gets more coming back ... so I do a better one ... I just start getting them caught and jailed ... and that is still happening
I haven't dropped that postulate .. but I don[t fight with weather anymore ..

jim

[RMorgan]

Is it a question that just shouldn't be asked? Is it a challenge to a claim or info given? Is it pointing out inconsistencies, discrepancies, or red flags, and asking how come? Is it an unconscious engram being restimulated, that simply needs to be audited? Is it wondering why the sudden avalanche of Scientology tech here, starting with the introduction of a previously unknown Scientology super hero? Is it wondering why we suddenly have to have a new leader figure to guide us young'uns out of the briar patch?


Hey Fred,

You know what really perplexes me?

Well, it´s the undeniable fact that such subject gained that much traction here based on huge, unverifiable and unfounded claims made by someone who believes to be the second coming of Jesus or something close to it.

This is really impressive; If there was an yearly gullibility award, PA would be a serious candidate to win it.

You know, after all those years keeping myself informed about what goes on in the Alternative Media, my conclusion is that people simply like to hear stories; the crazier the better. The more fantastical, nonsensical and unfounded a story is, the more traction and repercussion it gets in websites such as this one.

Next step is to set up a few interviews with Jim and make him the next alternative media celebrity of the month. He surely fits all requirements.

Come on folks...Are you serious? Perhaps this is just a social experiment and you forgot to warn me about it?

I´m sorry if I may sound disrespectful, but these things need to be said.

Raf.

[Christine]

Is it a question that just shouldn't be asked? Is it a challenge to a claim or info given? Is it pointing out inconsistencies, discrepancies, or red flags, and asking how come? Is it an unconscious engram being restimulated, that simply needs to be audited? Is it wondering why the sudden avalanche of Scientology tech here, starting with the introduction of a previously unknown Scientology super hero? Is it wondering why we suddenly have to have a new leader figure to guide us young'uns out of the briar patch?


Hey Fred,

You know what really perplexes me?

Well, it´s the undeniable fact that such subject gained that much traction here based on huge, unverifiable and unfounded claims made by someone who believes to be the second coming of Jesus or something close to it.

This is really impressive; If there was an yearly gullibility award, PA would be a serious candidate to win it.

You know, after all those years keeping myself informed about what goes on in the Alternative Media, my conclusion is that people simply like to hear stories; the crazier the better. The more fantastical, nonsensical and unfounded a story is, the more traction and repercussion it gets in websites such as this one.

Next step is to set up a few interviews with Jim and make him the next alternative media celebrity of the month. He surely fits all requirements.

Come on folks...Are you serious? Perhaps this is just an experiment and you forgot to warn me about it?

I´m sorry if I may sound disrespectful, but these things need to be said.

Raf.

Hey guys - chill please.

No one is announcing the second coming of anyone, no new leader, no super hero, no one needing or asking to get pulled out of the briar patch. Take what you will and leave the rest. I haven't heard one person say that jiminii is their lord and savior.. all he has done is bring some attention on a subject which maybe the time has come to explore.

It has raised some questions in myself which I find helpful to explore. Controversy quite often has that effect.

Love you both,
Christine

[Bill Ryan]

Hi Bill
Thanks for this information...
What part does the ego, as we usually think of it, play in the auditing process?

I am familiar with some regression techniques which address some current life blockages, like falling from a swing and been afraid of heights etc.
Now I do understand and fully agree with past life engrams and have found that...as an example of one person who died in a previous life from what we suspected to be falling off a mountain...that he was able to resolve this by going back up the mountain again...sort of...if you fall off a horse...get straight back on again, stuff.

These...once resolved will not usually address problems like arrogance and self serving attitudes.
I have been more active in this field of service where finding out who we are...not human beings but Spiritual Beings...seems to have great success.

So how does the auditing process uncover and resolve typical ego traits if the person is merely behaving in a manner which has been part of his long life upbringing? and hence....the point which puzzles me...how does auditing deal with the fact...and I am using this cautiously...that we choose our parents for a life which would best be in our interests to resolve 'flaws' in our character?

Take care
Ray

Well! What a huge question. Not sure if I can answer this, but I'll give it a go.

To some degree, this depends on what the 'ego' is considered to be. It's one of those concepts that tends to mean different things in different contexts, and to different people.

I'll assume that here it means the strength of the sense of self, in a self-preservative way. It's an interesting question, because it can cause problems. Here's how:

The way auditing is meant to work -- which is in a particular carefully worked-out sequence and structure -- is to keep the balance in at all times, and to prevent the 'ego' from holding too much sway. The end product should be a balanced, sensitive, aware human being who is in great shape, ready to admit that they are wrong when they are, not trying to play games with others and be 'one-up', and not regarding themselves as holier-then-thou in any way whatsoever.

But the entire 'engineering' problem of optimizing the function of the human mind and spirit is so complex, that sometimes that balance is not maintained. And in those situations, the end product can occasionally be someone who is not upset about anything any more, is confident and capable, has no problems affecting him or her in life, but who might be considered by others an arrogant a**hole. :)

This is rare, but can certainly happen. I've seen it myself. But it should certainly be noted that this sometimes happens in EVERY discipline or spiritual path that I'm aware of, except (possibly) traditional Buddhist practice. These INCLUDE traditional Shamanism in every culture, Yoga, Zen, Sufism, Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and definitely also every kind of 'teaching' where there's a person who holds themselves as an authority figure to be followed or obeyed.

So someone who, when they were unconfident and feeling not very powerful or able, might not have the personal power to (for instance) go into denial about something, might -- when much more confident and powerful -- be MUCH more easily able to go into denial, or to deceive themselves in some way.

I've seen this happen, too. It seems that at least sometimes, with unbalanced spiritual growth can come an arrogance and lack of balance that is visible to others, but not to oneself.

What auditing certainly does to is make one more able. A cynic might say (not without some justification!) that if you expand the abilities of a jerk, you just get a more able jerk. It may depend just where the 'jerkness' comes from.

If the 'jerkness' is based on (for instance) having been abused as a child, or having decided through earlier traumatic experience that one had to get one up on everyone in order to survive, that jerkness would probably evaporate out naturally.

And then -- some people just WANT to be a jerk. Really. They have that choice.

:)

Regarding choosing our parents (or anything else, such as one's environment as a child, certain events in one's life, or even one's body, for better or for worse) -- the reasons for this often emerge naturally in the auditing process, with one's own realizations about how we have created a great deal of stuff for which we often blame others (or fate, or 'God').

We really are responsible for most, if not all, of what we experience.

[Bill Ryan]

So, I'll narrow it down to just one question, followed by a little bit of commentary: Just what constitutes a "negative" question in this case?

Hi, Fred:

Here are examples of negative questions -- taken from different contexts. (But you'll know from your own extensive forum experience that these examples, while not copied quotes, are pretty real. We see them on Avalon periodically.)

On a David Icke thread:

--- Bill, that was yet another very weird handshake you gave David after the interview. Come on, we know the truth. Why don't you admit you're both freemasons?

On a Jordan Maxwell thread:

--- Isn't Jordan Maxwell just plagiarizing all of P. Manly Hall's material? Do you really think that Jordan, who really doesn't seem all that bright, has come across and researched all that stuff on his own? Bill, I have a question for you: Why do you support Jordan so much?

On an Alex Jones thread:

--- Hasn't it been established a long time ago that Alex Jones is paid by the CIA? He's never denied it. Don't you realize that he never, ever, mentions Israel? The guy's as fake as a three-dollar bill.

On a Project Camelot thread:

--- James Casbolt (Michael Prince) states clearly that Camelot is a CIA-funded operation. Bill, what have you got to say about this? We know that you've been gallivanting around the world staying in expensive hotels and that could not possibly come from donations. So, where does the money come from?

Etc, etc, etc.

Does this help?

And here's a real example, from Fred Steeves:


you got some splainin to do

:)

Clusters of threads often appear, each spawned by the others. The 'Batman' Shootings, Sandy Hook, The Boston Bombings, 9/11, Benghazigate, the Gulf Oil Spill, and much much more. Mods often merge threads, but not always -- when the themes are sufficiently distinct. (This is always a tricky call.)

Over time, other clusters appear. Search for David Icke, Jordan Maxwell, Alex Jones, Ben Fulford, Lindsey Williams, and you will find DOZENS of threads -- but not all started at the same time.

It's also possible -- wait for it! -- that members find these topics interesting. Threads always "fall off" the [I]New Posts list when attention wanes. Bear in mind that it's the forum MEMBERS who are keeping these topics alive. That includes you! :)

I am a forum member here, and *I* find it interesting. I am allowed to. (I find many other things interesting too. Take a couple of weeks off and read through my 4,700 posts.)

Others find this topic interesting, too. You should see my PM inbox.

I totally understand that living in Clearwater, you've had your fill of scientology. But I am highly critical of the 'Church', and am even endangering myself (theoretically) by stating so time and again.

My question for you: why is it so difficult to tell the difference between what you have been exposed to (a lot of unsavory and off-putting stuff, which I would surely totally agree with you about were I to know the details), and what I and others are trying to explain and clarify here?

[Padmé]

Okay, so here's another question... why did you remove my posts, when even Jiminii agreed with me and said I had a valid question...





right that is the way to do it ,... people who are too serious can't effect anything ... there is too much effort ... you know they want me to prove the weather ,.. and if I do ,.. it would be like every time I did before.... as soon as you do it ... they will say it was going to happen anyway ... but when the rain stopped between the two lights the girl shut up ... she couldn't say anything after that ,.. but those are rare .. you almost have to be in such a jokingly light mood because the thoughts that work are the light ones ... just like this other post of a baby making weather .. that baby has no thought that it can't be done ,.. no counter intention ,.,. just puts it there .. but people with a lot of losses will not believe it ... just the fact that you doubt it and disbelieve it alone will not make it happen

you have to read the book

I put up a thought in Los angeles to make no rain and keep it hot so I could sell ice cream on my ice cream truck ,and a few years later I wasn't even doing the ice cream truck .. and maybe it is about 1978 and they have news saying they've had a 7 year drought and they will allocating all the water in Los Angeles and they will start some government program to manage the water ... I suddenly thought "OMG ... I stopped the rain" I put out my thoughts to cancel the stop ." ... the rain started up and it was going until around january ... and I was living with an OT 2 .. and I told him "we have enough rain I am going to stop it now"
he said "no we still need more ... " and he is comparing the rain to mid east not same like the Los angeles being in a desert "
I said "no I am stopping the rain tonight"
well I don't have the label of being an OT because they never let me attest to it . so he assumes I have no power at all.
he says "me and a bunch of ot's are postulating rain"
I said "it will stop tonight"
the weather forecast was heavy rain that night
that night the rain shifted and missed Los angeles completely
now this OT 2 complained for the next two weeks so I thought "ok you want to see rain?"
I started postulating rain ... no rain ... I pushed it harder ... no rain ... then harder .. no rain ... so I cogged " oh I forget to cancel the stop the rain postulate"
I canceled the stop and the rain came down and all of orange county is flooded the santa monica peers and coast lines are breaking up and all the land is falling on the the highway there ... all the houses in the hollywood hills are coming down the mountain .... and the canyons too ... and I tried to stop it and it only made it worse and whipped up the winds so hard I thought it too dangerous to try to sop it
so I said "just let it ride out .... don't put any more postulates there "
this ot 2 refused to talk to me about weather ever again

............


eventually all of you will be handled .. that is our target and goal .. you can do it now .. or you can do it 100 trillion years from now or never
it is all up to you

jim


So let me get this clear, you caused hot weather for your own financial gain, then irresponsibly forgot you had, then messed up the process and so there were greater consequences for quite a while...
and you say we should all read this book and have a try too? :D

... and if we choose not to believe, then we will all be 'handled' anyway... what do you mean by this statement?

look ... I am learning this stuff just like anyone else ... it is same like inelia with no experience

I picked weather because it was going to rain and I was on the road with no place to sleep

and I was just curious why the chant worked
until it stopped the rain between two lights ,., so then I wanted to know how that happened ,,, I knew it couldn't be a chant ... then i read the book and I practiced .. I never expected it would continue to stay hot ... especially 7 years .... and this body doesn't believe it anyway ,,,, so 7 years later I flip on the TV channel .. and there is a 7 year droubt ,, ,,, I tried to start the rain again
it wouldn't start ... again and again ...then I realized that it must have been started when I was on the ice cream truck ... so I cancel that thought and the rain started
this body gets surprised every time ... because I put out thoughts they happen ... this body doesn't believe it .. so I drop it .. but the thought didn't drop until I looked on the TV

now this is how thoughts work ... put up a thought you want rain .. and it works the same way for everyone ... so then we get rain .. now you want to stop the rain.. the second thought goes up against the first thought. and locks because they ar opposing thoughts ... no matter what you do you can't make the second thought work until you stop the first thought ...

but ... to stop the first thought you have to look at the exact time that you created the thought to make it vanish
some people need a meter to go back to the exact thought to make it vanish ,,, I don't ... I just look

so are you interested in making money?
not with weather ...
and you got some thought there that is stopping all your money and it won't go away ,.,
what do you do?
some people need a meter to go locate the thought that is stopping them from having money

do you want a job?
go back to the thoughts that are stopping you from getting a job

this is why everyone is having so much trouble living on this planet ,.. the cabal sets everything up to make everyone lose and get in lowered conditions and all these thoughts of yours start happening and next you know you are broke .. and no way out of it ... if you knew how to handle your thoughts you can make your life better

and if I can make the weather go the way I want ... and no one else changes it ,... then they don't believe they can change it ... so the weather will follow me ... if more people took more responsibility for the weather and learned how to manage like the buddhas in thailand .. you would get a more balance game to play .. the fact that you can't change the weather puts you in apathy about doing anything about the weather
get up to where you are cause over it .. and then we would probably be able to heat up HAARP enough to break it. These people are taking aiien tech and using it to hurt us and create famine ... if you had the ability to control the weather ... they wouldn't be able to do this
I am keeping the weather going fine over here ... where I can see what it is doing not somewhere else where I can't see it ... and may cause damage ... you have a responsibility to handle your own area just like I do .. if I were able to see outside this body .. I could handle it all .. but I don't, so maybe some others should get in there and learn it and take some responsibility themselves

jim


why would you eventually come ??? maybe because you would get tired at beating your head up against the wall trying to figure out why you can get money or a job ...
you would see others that are winning ... so you would want to know

inelia said their was no manual to operating the body ,.. and there is no manual to operate this universe . it just want the way it want hap hazard for eons ,,so this guy called LRH tries to learn it and make a manual so people can learn how to make their lives better ... and those who want to steal it and control it spend billions of dollars and also taxpayers dollars to try to destroy it ... one man ... could keep it going as long as he could ,, .. .. he worked almost 16 or more hours a day to try to give everyone a chance .. and I can see on this site anyone can go out and find anything to tear it down ,., and not know where it came from
I know where it came from because i was there when we were fighting all these false reports setup with this count tel pro program .. and i worked in this orgs and saw everyone was very serious to try to keep ethics in and make it go right ... I saw it ...

but go ahead and read any of the garbage on the internet ...
it is up to you ... it is your life

bill told me to slow down

I am tired of answering all these negative guestions

anyone with negative questions i will not answer anymore
you can ask bill

I can clean a lot of this with him because he will honestly go look first
before he speaks

jim

Why has my actual post, my response to Jiminii and his subsequent post been removed?????????? It doesnt even show up on the list when you go via my profile...

[norman]

Etc, etc, etc.

Does this help?

:)

It illustrates light to the sighted.

What it really doesn't address, figuratively, is the slope, sliding scale, whatever you want to call it, that causes the "mud" we always get stuck in here and everywhere.

I mean, the frustrating fact that we are always being responded to by people who don't know what we know ( yet - etc ).


I, and I suspect you, too, and every normal person I can think of, have yet got to come up with a way to say stuff that's going to be received by all types in an equal way, with the same result.

[ if you DO know how to do this, please don't let the slimy politicians get hold of the technique ]

:)

[Bill Ryan]

-------

To Padmé: read this, right now -- please.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59041-LRH--L.-Ron-Hubbard-&p=676596&viewfull=1#post676596

And also take a look at my reply to Fred above (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-Ron-s-Org-Planet-Earth.-Jim-and-the-Future&p=676592&viewfull=1#post676592) about negative posts. You've been on the forum for over two years, over half of your posts have been in the last week, and almost all of those have been disruptive to the energy.

You are TRYING to find fault. It looks immature. Be aware of how you're coming over to everyone else.

The effect is that of heckling a conference speaker. That does not technically break the law -- but don't be surprised if, after a while, the conference organizers ask you to leave the auditorium.

[Padmé]

-------

to padmé: Read this, right now -- please.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59041-lrh--l.-ron-hubbard-&p=676596&viewfull=1#post676596

and also take a look at my reply to fred above (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-q-and-a-about-ron-hubbard-bill-robertson-scientology-the-free-zone-ron-s-org-planet-earth.-jim-and-the-future&p=676592&viewfull=1#post676592) about negative posts. You've been on the forum for over two years, over half of your posts have been in the last week, and almost all of them have been disruptive to the energy.

You are trying to find fault. It looks immature. Be aware of how you're coming over to everyone else.

The effect is that of heckling a conference speaker. That does not technically break the law -- but don't be surprised if, after a while, the conference organizers ask you to leave the auditorium.

um.... Wow!!!! Hah! Just... Wow!!!

[norman]

Keeping the conversation going, and keeping it out of the 'back-slapping' group congratulatory mode is a constant paradox.

We often wonder how it can possibly be, that the world of academia can possibly be involved in the cover-up, of all the factors that are about our history and who we are.

I know I always wonder how the hell do universities seem to avoid the truth and produce graduates who are some of the smartest people around, but don't have a clue what's going on...... ? I mean... REALLY ! ?

When we, on a truther forum, start to get "reasonably logical" we are probably flirting with whatever it is that makes universities turn out academic idiots.

The 'paradox' is only visible to the "one eye'd person, in a blind world.

[RunningDeer]

This is NOT intended for Jiminii. It's for any game players flooding the LRH threads.

UPDATE: I may have place this on the wrong LRH thread.

Eight Traits of the Disinformationalist (http://www.whale.to/b/sweeney.html)
by H. Michael Sweeney <HMS@proparanoid.com> 
copyright (c) 1997, 2000 All rights reserved 

(Revised April 2000 - formerly SEVEN Traits) 
 



1) Avoidance. They never actually discuss issues head-on or provide constructive input, generally avoiding citation of references or credentials. Rather, they merely imply this, that, and the other. Virtually everything about  their presentation implies their authority and  expert knowledge in the matter without any further justification for credibility. 



2) Selectivity. They tend to pick and choose opponents carefully, either applying the hit-and-run approach against mere commentators supportive of opponents, or focusing heavier attacks on key opponents who are known to directly address issues. Should a commentatorbecome argumentative with any success, the focus will shift to include the commentator as well.



3) Coincidental. They tend to surface suddenly and somewhat coincidentally with a new controversial topic with no clear prior record of participation in general discussions in the particular public arena involved. They likewise tend to vanish once the topic is no longer of general concern. They were likely directed or elected to be there for a reason, and vanish with the reason.



4) Teamwork. They tend to operate in self-congratulatory and complementary packs or teams. Of course, this can happen naturally in any public forum, but there will likely be an ongoing pattern of frequent exchanges of this sort where professionals are involved. Sometimes one of the players will infiltrate the opponent camp to become a source for straw man or other tactics designed to dilute opponent presentation strength. 



5) Anti-conspiratorial. They almost always have disdain for 'conspiracy theorists' and, usually, for those who in any way believe JFK was not killed by LHO. Ask yourself why, if they hold such disdain for conspiracy theorists, do they focus on defending a single topic discussed in a NG focusing on conspiracies? One might think they would either be trying to make fools of everyone on every topic, or simply ignore the group they hold in such disdain.Or, one might more rightly conclude they have  an ulterior motive for their actions in going out of their way to focus as they do. 



6) Artificial Emotions. An odd kind of 'artificial' emotionalism and an unusually thick skin -- an ability to persevere and persist even in the face of overwhelming criticism and unacceptance. This likely stems from intelligence community training that, no matter how condemning the evidence, deny everything, and never become emotionally involved or reactive. The net result for a disinfo artist is that emotions can seem artificial. Most people, if responding in anger, for instance, will express their animosity throughout their rebuttal. But disinfo types usually have trouble maintaining the 'image' and are hot and cold with respect to pretended emotions and their usually more calm or unemotional communications style. It's just a job, and they often seem unable to 'act their role in character' as well in a communications medium as they might be able in a real face-to-face  conversation/confrontation. You might have outright rage and indignation one moment, ho-hum the next, and more anger later -- an emotional yo-yo. With respect to being thick-skinned, no amount of criticism will deter them from doing their job, and they will generally continue their old disinfo patterns without any adjustments to criticisms of how obvious it is that they play that game -- where a more rational individual who truly cares what others think might seek to improve their communications style, substance, and so forth, or simply give up. 



7) Inconsistent. There is also a tendency to make mistakes which betray their true self/motives. This may stem from not really knowing their topic, or it may be somewhat 'freudian', so to speak, in that perhaps they  really root for the side of truth deep within.

I have noted that often, they will simply cite contradictory information which neutralizes  itself and the author. For instance, one such  player claimed to be a Navy pilot, but blamed his poor communicating skills (spelling, grammar, incoherent style) on having only a grade-school education. I'm not aware of too many Navy pilots who don't have a college degree. Another claimed no knowledge of a particular topic/situation but later claimed first-hand knowledge of it.


8) BONUS TRAIT: Time Constant. Recently discovered, with respect to News Groups, is the response time factor. There are three ways this can be seen to work, especially when the government or other empowered player is involved in a cover up operation:
[continued here (http://www.whale.to/b/sweeney.html)]

Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth:  (http://www.whale.to/m/disin.html)  

The Rules of Disinformation  (Includes The 8 Traits of A Disinformationalist)  

by H. Michael Sweeney
 copyright (c) 1997, 2000 All rights reserved
 (Revised April 2000)



Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation 

Note: The first rule and last five (or six, depending on situation) rules are generally not directly within the ability of the traditional disinfo artist to apply. These rules are generally used more directly by those at the leadership, key players, or planning level of the criminal conspiracy or conspiracy to cover up. 



[continued here (http://www.whale.to/m/disin.html)]

[norman]

"Use a straw man"

That's a good point.

I've come to realise that most people do that within their arguments, even when they are staying on track with the creditable etiquette.

If you set up a listener project and analize a whole slew of 'respectable' discussion, you will find that almost every contributor uses "straw man" reasoning at one stage or another and one level or another.

I'll even go so far as to say that the few who DON't use it, are the few who get rapidly sidelined and evicted from the conversation. ( unless you want to include the eventual rapturous eviction of the King straw man arguer )

[Fred Steeves]

So, I'll narrow it down to just one question, followed by a little bit of commentary: Just what constitutes a "negative" question in this case?

Hi, Fred:

Here are examples of negative questions -- taken from [imaginary] different contexts. (But you'll know from your own extensive forum experience that these examples, while not copied quotes, are pretty real. We see them on Avalon periodically.)

On a David Icke thread:

--- Bill, that was yet another very weird handshake you gave David after the interview. Come on, we know the truth. Why don't you admit you're both freemasons?

On a Jordan Maxwell thread:

--- Isn't Jordan Maxwell just plagiarizing all of P. Manly Hall's material? Do you really think that Jordan, who really doesn't seem all that bright, has come across and researched all that stuff on his own? Bill, I have a question for you: Why do you support Jordan so much?

On an Alex Jones thread:

--- Hasn't it been established a long time ago that Alex Jones is paid by the CIA? He's never denied it. Don't you realize that he never, ever, mentions Israel? The guy's as fake as a three-dollar bill.

On a Project Camelot thread:

--- James Casbolt (Michael Prince) states clearly that Camelot is a CIA-funded operation. Bill, what have you got to say about this? We know that you've been gallivanting around the world staying in expensive hotels and that could not possibly come from donations. So, where does the money come from?

Etc, etc, etc.

Does this help?

http://nexusnow.info/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/no.gif Not in this case Bill, but that's o.k. Although I whole heartedly agree with your assessment of the above questions (don't they get old?), it doesn't apply *IMO* to many of the basic and legitimate questions Jim has either been unable, or unwilling to address. On his own that is...But hey, all is well brother.




I totally understand that living in Clearwater, you've had your fill of scientology. But I am highly critical of the 'Church', and am even endangering myself (theoretically) by stating so time and again.

My question for you: why is it so difficult to tell the difference between what you have been exposed to (a lot of unsavory and off-putting stuff, which I would surely totally agree with you about were I to know the details), and what I and others are trying to explain and clarify here?

Hmmm, me thinks we may have a have a failure to communicate on that one. Perhaps I wasn't clear when I said this:


And finally, here's the bugger of it all. I ordinarily wouldn't mind one bit having an in depth and intelligent conversation about Scientology, especially with people who have experience with it. Having lived right next to FLAG central in Clearwater for most of my life, and having learned much about it in the process, I think it would be most interesting.

I've known and been friends with Scientologists who were very nice people (free zone and regular), and I've met some who really gave me the genuine creeps, especially inside the Ft. Harrison Hotel. (LOL)

So yes, I can very much so tell the difference. http://nexusnow.info/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/smile.gif Especially now, with nearly 2 1/2 years of hard core Avalon experience.


P.S. Oh, sorry. Many probably don't know much about Clearwater at all, much less about The Ft. Harrison Hotel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Harrison_Hotel

[RunningDeer]

And finally, here's the bugger of it all. I ordinarily wouldn't mind one bit having an in depth and intelligent conversation about Scientology, especially with people who have experience with it. Having lived right next to FLAG central in Clearwater for most of my life, and having learned much about it in the process, I think it would be most interesting.

I've known and been friends with Scientologists who were very nice people (free zone and regular), and I've met some who really gave me the genuine creeps, especially inside the Ft. Harrison Hotel. (LOL)


"... And finally, here's the bugger of it all. I ordinarily wouldn't mind one bit having an in depth and intelligent conversation about Scientology, especially with people who have experience with it. Having lived right next to FLAG central in Clearwater for most of my life, and having learned much about it in the process, I think it would be most interesting.

BUT, having now had that "frosty cold beer" shoved down my throat, not to mention the lurkers and new members as well, I'm more in "you got some splainin to do" mode. And you know what? That's most unfortunate, but it is what it is... "

Hello Fred,

As I see it, these paragraphs are confusing when you leave the paragraph that follows off from when you originally asked Bill your question(s). When I remove the extraneous phrases it reads:

“And finally, here's the bugger of it all. I ordinarily wouldn't mind one bit having an in depth and intelligent conversation about Scientology, I think it would be most interesting.

BUT, having now had that "frosty cold beer" shoved down my throat, I'm more in "you got some splainin to do" mode.”


From what I gathered jiminii is sharing his personal experiences. He did not deem himself, to use your words, “Scientology super hero”.

From what I see jiminii exhibits a lot of patience in answering questions from multiple threads all while walking through a land mind of:

innuendo
name calling
insults on his communication style

I don’t blame him for having this feeling: "I'm tired of your negative questioning".

This still is confusing: "frosty cold beer" shoved down my throat, I'm more in "you got some splainin to do mode". Do you mean Bill or jiminii shoving information about Scientology down your throat &/or not explaining about Scientology?

If it’s jiminii you are speaking of then I’d say again, “jiminii is sharing his personal experiences. He did not deem himself to use your words, “Scientology super hero”.

Cheers,
Paula

PS If jiminii is reading this. Hello and welcome and thank you for your time, energy and patience. :wave:







So, I'll narrow it down to just one question, followed by a little bit of commentary: Just what constitutes a "negative" question in this case?

Hi, Fred:

Here are examples of negative questions -- taken from [imaginary] different contexts. (But you'll know from your own extensive forum experience that these examples, while not copied quotes, are pretty real. We see them on Avalon periodically.)

On a David Icke thread:

--- Bill, that was yet another very weird handshake you gave David after the interview. Come on, we know the truth. Why don't you admit you're both freemasons?

On a Jordan Maxwell thread:

--- Isn't Jordan Maxwell just plagiarizing all of P. Manly Hall's material? Do you really think that Jordan, who really doesn't seem all that bright, has come across and researched all that stuff on his own? Bill, I have a question for you: Why do you support Jordan so much?

On an Alex Jones thread:

--- Hasn't it been established a long time ago that Alex Jones is paid by the CIA? He's never denied it. Don't you realize that he never, ever, mentions Israel? The guy's as fake as a three-dollar bill.

On a Project Camelot thread:

--- James Casbolt (Michael Prince) states clearly that Camelot is a CIA-funded operation. Bill, what have you got to say about this? We know that you've been gallivanting around the world staying in expensive hotels and that could not possibly come from donations. So, where does the money come from?

Etc, etc, etc.

Does this help?

http://nexusnow.info/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/no.gif Not in this case Bill, but that's o.k. Although I whole heartedly agree with your assessment of the above questions (don't they get old?), it doesn't apply *IMO* to many of the basic and legitimate questions Jim has either been unable, or unwilling to address. On his own that is...But hey, all is well brother.




I totally understand that living in Clearwater, you've had your fill of scientology. But I am highly critical of the 'Church', and am even endangering myself (theoretically) by stating so time and again.

My question for you: why is it so difficult to tell the difference between what you have been exposed to (a lot of unsavory and off-putting stuff, which I would surely totally agree with you about were I to know the details), and what I and others are trying to explain and clarify here?

Hmmm, me thinks we may have a have a failure to communicate on that one. Perhaps I wasn't clear when I said this:


And finally, here's the bugger of it all. I ordinarily wouldn't mind one bit having an in depth and intelligent conversation about Scientology, especially with people who have experience with it. Having lived right next to FLAG central in Clearwater for most of my life, and having learned much about it in the process, I think it would be most interesting.

I've known and been friends with Scientologists who were very nice people (free zone and regular), and I've met some who really gave me the genuine creeps, especially inside the Ft. Harrison Hotel. (LOL)

So yes, I can very much so tell the difference. http://nexusnow.info/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/smile.gif Especially now, with nearly 2 1/2 years of hard core Avalon experience.


P.S. Oh, sorry. Many probably don't know much about Clearwater at all, much less about The Ft. Harrison Hotel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Harrison_Hotel

[lightwalker]

I was in for 8 years....."Clear" and trained as a "Class IV" auditor to anyone who knows the nomenclature. Scientologists, are in awe when they find out my "status" so to speak and cannot understand why I left 20 years ago. It's an ego boost. The more trained ones who contact me firmly believe that I "blew" (left) because I had misunderstoods and all I need to do is get them cleared up and I'd be back in the fold.

Scientology was a stepping stone to where I am at today. I read Dianetics over 6-7 times, cannot remember. I used it with great results. My communication skills, my running a business skills and most important knowing how to ask the right question are the 3 things that I am grateful for that came from LRH.

I used my communication skills recently when they found my phone number and address (I believe they paid to find this on line, but always with skill avoided answering my query about this). They had (in LA) handwritten letters from my files of many years ago that I wrote when I was on staff in Hawaii. I was amazed. However the great thing is I just used what I call "spiritual tai chi" to handle their very persistent questions and didn't get upset with them.

Scientology and Dianetics.....these are A way.....one of many. Some of it is good and some of it is....part of a journey into the dark.

I think most important is to recognize that all your questions and answers and knowing are right inside of you. And I hope everyone is having fun with all of this...I'm sure LRH is looking on and laughing his butt off.

lightwalker

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Bill a question if i may. ( un loaded )

My auditing experience is limited compared to yours.


When an auditor asks you to think of things does this usuallly as a by product bring up memories and visions of past events ?

If so , where do these visual memories manifest ? ie what part of the brian ,in your opinion , facilitates the recognition of said events ?

AND , Is the e meter trying to read the electromagnetic pulses attributed to extra mind mental energy created by exersizing it ?

Thank you

Naniu

[CdnSirian]

Is it a question that just shouldn't be asked? Is it a challenge to a claim or info given? Is it pointing out inconsistencies, discrepancies, or red flags, and asking how come? Is it an unconscious engram being restimulated, that simply needs to be audited? Is it wondering why the sudden avalanche of Scientology tech here, starting with the introduction of a previously unknown Scientology super hero? Is it wondering why we suddenly have to have a new leader figure to guide us young'uns out of the briar patch?


Hey Fred,

You know what really perplexes me?

Well, it´s the undeniable fact that such subject gained that much traction here based on huge, unverifiable and unfounded claims made by someone who believes to be the second coming of Jesus or something close to it.

This is really impressive; If there was an yearly gullibility award, PA would be a serious candidate to win it.

You know, after all those years keeping myself informed about what goes on in the Alternative Media, my conclusion is that people simply like to hear stories; the crazier the better. The more fantastical, nonsensical and unfounded a story is, the more traction and repercussion it gets in websites such as this one.

Next step is to set up a few interviews with Jim and make him the next alternative media celebrity of the month. He surely fits all requirements.

Come on folks...Are you serious? Perhaps this is just an experiment and you forgot to warn me about it?

I´m sorry if I may sound disrespectful, but these things need to be said.

Raf.

Hey guys - chill please.

No one is announcing the second coming of anyone, no new leader, no super hero, no one needing or asking to get pulled out of the briar patch. Take what you will and leave the rest. I haven't heard one person say that jiminii is their lord and savior.. all he has done is bring some attention on a subject which maybe the time has come to explore.

It has raised some questions in myself which I find helpful to explore. Controversy quite often has that effect.

Love you both,
Christine

Jiminii said he is the viewpoint of Maitreya - how does one take that?

Also, thrown in with saying he is the viewpoint of LRH - though not channelling, as has been decided...so of whom is this whatever numbered coming?

I'm not saying his experiences aren't real. But I am not ignoring what he says.

[CdnSirian]

I remember a past post, when you mentioned finding pre-1970 Dianetics books to audit, but they aren't easy to come by. Would you mind sharing your PDF on Book One?

Here, with pleasure.

http://projectavalon.net/DMSMH.PDF





Hi Bill,

The link doesn't download anything but a 1Kb file and the PDF reader in your post gives the same result...

I hope you'll be able to fix it?

Thanks!

Apologies -- having trouble with the server upload. Will fix soonest, then re-post as soon as it works.

EDIT --> Fixed. :)

I ;am thinking we can make a group and call it research ..then we can decide what we want to put on the sight ...
because I need to clear some things about this nibiru and more ... I can almost hear the conversations up there .. but I don't know who it is ,,, it is like they are making the decisions but with who down here I don't have any good cogs

what you think?

jim

"" I can almost hear the conversations up there .. but I don't know who it is ,,, it is like they are making the decisions but with who down here I don't have any good cogs"

Who and what are you talking about? Thanks.

[Bill Ryan]

Bill a question if i may. ( un loaded )

My auditing experience is limited compared to yours.


When an auditor asks you to think of things does this usuallly as a by product bring up memories and visions of past events ?

If so , where do these visual memories manifest ? ie what part of the brian ,in your opinion , facilitates the recognition of said events ?

AND , Is the e meter trying to read the electromagnetic pulses attributed to extra mind mental energy created by exersizing it ?

Thank you

Naniu

All I can say is that if I ask you to "think of an elephant" (right now) -- or "recall what you had for breakfast" -- the way you experienced your experience would probably be similar to mine.

I just think of an elephant (probably a memory of one I saw in Africa), or remember my coffee and granola.

[Christine]

Hey guys - chill please.

No one is announcing the second coming of anyone, no new leader, no super hero, no one needing or asking to get pulled out of the briar patch. Take what you will and leave the rest. I haven't heard one person say that jiminii is their lord and savior.. all he has done is bring some attention on a subject which maybe the time has come to explore.

It has raised some questions in myself which I find helpful to explore. Controversy quite often has that effect.

Love you both,
Christine


Jiminii said he is the viewpoint of Maitreya - how does one take that? I cant' answer that for anyone but myself, and I would say with a grain of salt. If I were able to be face to face with Jim and get to know him much better I maybe could form an opinion. A far as I go is to understand that we can take on the view point of another, I have found myself in such a situation where momentarily I became the other. Other than that I am not sure.


Also, thrown in with saying he is the viewpoint of LRH - though not channelling, as has been decided...so of whom is this whatever numbered coming? This I doubt as to being accurate, the reason being is that I do know other auditors and ex church people who knew LRH and/ or say they communicate with him. Everyone appears to have a different experience.


I'm not saying his experiences aren't real. But I am not ignoring what he says.I would like to think that I am not ignoring what he says either, just some of what he says impacts me in one way and some of what he says impacts others differently.

[Padmé]

-------

To Padmé: read this, right now -- please.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59041-LRH--L.-Ron-Hubbard-&p=676596&viewfull=1#post676596

And also take a look at my reply to Fred above (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-Ron-s-Org-Planet-Earth.-Jim-and-the-Future&p=676592&viewfull=1#post676592) about negative posts. You've been on the forum for over two years, over half of your posts have been in the last week, and almost all of those have been disruptive to the energy.

You are TRYING to find fault. It looks immature. Be aware of how you're coming over to everyone else.

The effect is that of heckling a conference speaker. That does not technically break the law -- but don't be surprised if, after a while, the conference organizers ask you to leave the auditorium.

Sorry, not trying to find fault and I promise not to enter this discussion anymore... I would however like to point out that I've only been a member since 23rd August 2012... not quite the over two years that you state... anyway... carry on... I wont disrupt for thread any longer.

[Bill Ryan]

Jiminii said he is the viewpoint of Maitreya - how does one take that?

I have no idea what to do with that concept. I'm reading what Jim writes (which is quite a lot) and trying to understand. He's clearly trying to tell us something which he considers very important. I have not asked Jim this, but I have the strong idea that he was 'told' or 'knew' that he had to come here. That gets my interest. (Inelia was similar, some of you may recall.)

That -- the relaying of an important message for consideration -- is not the first time this has happened on this forum. We had read, and been most interested by, Bright Garlick, Simon Parkes, Clif High, and many, many others. I personally don't know whether to take it literally or exactly, or not. But I think it belongs here. The intelligent interest from [most of] the members justifies that.


Also, thrown in with saying he is the viewpoint of LRH - though not channelling, as has been decided...so of whom is this whatever numbered coming?

I don't think this is channeling (in the normally accepted sense of the word, like Messages from Matthew or anything from Mike Quinsey). I think this is something else. For instance, we're not getting from Jim a page of text which is a message we're urged to read and take seriously as some definitive pronouncement about which we have no say. At least, that's not how I am regarding it.

BECAUSE Jim is sharing so much of himself, openly, vulnerably and in trust, including a lot of his life story and many things that he freely admits he does not understand, I find myself pretty patient with all this, and also find it very interesting. I admire Jim's courage and integrity, actually.

A personal statement, for clarity: I do not endorse his claims. Neither am I dismissing them. In fact, I still have not read everything Jim has written.

One of the criteria we use when considering membership applications is: "Would we want to sit down and have a cup of coffee with this interesting person?"

In Jim's case, we all felt we would, indeed. That is still the case.

[Bill Ryan]

many of the basic and legitimate questions Jim has either been unable, or unwilling to address.

I think that Jim has been overwhelmed with questions. It's hard to field them all over several threads and several dozen pages when one also has to eat and sleep and presumably do many other things during each day.

And it's not a case of those questions being 'negative'. No-one said that! He may have missed a bunch. I'm sure some of them are good ones.

But shouting "Jim never answered my question!!" isn't very helpful -- OR positive. How is Jim meant to know what he's overlooked? :)

Q and A threads (like this one) are problematic, and unwittingly often invite trouble -- because if a post or a question is missed quite by accident, one is always accused of cherry-picking the questions or evading an issue. In most cases, that is never so.

[WEAREONE]

The bottom of my post is a smaller edited copy and paste of the threads I have been reading in the LRH (L. Ron Hubbard) thread. To keep it quick and to the point I copied and pasted the more unbelievable ideas that have caused me to not be able to fully embrace the message. UNFORTUNATELY, the message is so far out from my paradigm that I can't understand the message "JIM" is sharing.

It appears others more familiar and learned in this subject find the "Jim" message as not too far out and are able to tolerate the sometimes jumbled message. Also, the numerous use of acronyms and insider slang has made it difficult to understand for begginers in the subject. I think it is unfortunate many on Avalon seem to not be able to see that the tools in Scientology can be beneficial, it seems as though many can not differentiate the Church/Religion/Cult with the tools. How can we not think bieng "Clear" is not a good thing for all people. From Wiki-- Clear in Dianetics and Scientology is one of two levels a practitioner can achieve on the way to personal salvation. A state of Clear is reached when a person becomes free of the influence of engrams, unwanted emotions or painful traumas not readily available to the conscious mind. Scientologists believe that human beings accumulate anxieties, psychosomatic illnesses, and aberration due to receiving engrams throughout their lives. By applying dianetics, every single person can reach Clear....Sounds good to me, I want to be clear.

It would help me greatly if we can have links to websites that can teach the tools, suggestions of books to read, websites to visit, youtube videos to watch, etc And perhaps the most beneficial thing is to condense all this info into one post as you did so well with the "Essential reading for all Avalonians post". It would be a good way to allow interested people to have access to the benefits and in a way weed through all the noise. Thanks again to you and all the Mods and fellow Avalonian members who keep this forum moving along.



80 trillion years ago there was a group of people call the peace bringers ... they were so powerful that everywhere they went they brought peace .. There was another group that were war mongers ... and they were a bit of trouble but the peace bringers thought that could train them and maybe they would change to the better ... but these war mongers decided to infiltrate and steal the tech and use is to try to take over the system ... and many wars happened


We are on a prison planet ... it took them billions of years to create this ... NO ONE ESCAPES from a prison planet ... NO ONE until Siddhartha Gautama Buddha did 2500 years ago ... any religion that tells you that you have no power and only god has power and any other power is the devil will never get you off this planet
it takes a being with a lot of power to get off this planet ... and giving all your power to a god that someone says exists isn't going to get you off the planet.

these are control religions ... I went back to see Christ on the Cross .. and started running the session myself using the class 8 auditor and her meter to do it.

I got back there ... Christ looked like he was in a very lot of pain ... I decided to go inside his body and see what was happening and a force a very big force was hitting me when I was in his body .. it was too much and I could not stay inside the body .. I got out and I saw a huge oval of gold light in front of him ... I thought he was making it .... I followed the light into the sky and it was a UFO ... and that UFO was hitting Christ with some kind of beam ... and it was flooding the crowd with pictures to create a future dark age ... I yelled ... it was a trick ... it was a trick ... it was a trick ...


by the way ... the force fields that trapped us to this planet have been removed ... by the andromedians . ... if you die this time you can go home ... where ;ever that was .... so future?? ... i am staying here ... this place will be the new beginning for the entire universe and when it is safe for them to come down they will teach us and we will be new light of this universe ... why because we were the gods they sent here and to them we are still looked at as royalty and they are trying to free us

[Orion197]

-------

I discovered for myself the following:

We humans are all in a 'fallen state'. Long, long ago, we all used to -- as beings -- be gods, as it were: creators, manifesters, dolphins playing together joyfully in the universal sea. As we accumulated more and more unfinished business --- basically, things that we'd not taken responsibility for and never cleaned up -- we 'solidified' until we can no longer remember who we are or the way things once were. And we've all been around for WAY longer than the 'Big Bang'.

:)

While I am not posting to this thread in regards to Hubbard and the rest, I must say that the above quote is a very nice and succinct summary Bill.
I would also suggest that there has been some 'outside interference' along the way.

[gripreaper]

Slow down. I'm reading "Dianetics" and I'm only 1/4 way through it. I read the Dane Tops 2009 Camelot interview last night, and listened to the BBC radio documentary. Don't have a broad enough perspective yet to ask questions, but I will at some point.

I really respect Fred and I get where he is coming from. Here's a Jim excerpt:


and I also knew one more thing .... it was my decision whether we salvaged the planet or not ....I decided to salvage it ...

His decision whether planet earth is salvageable? The 70% minions or the 30% partially cognizant that could use auditing? Jim decided to salvage it?

I've given him a wide berth, but there are two things going on here. An intelligent discussion about clearing one's traumas and karmas through a basket of tools, exponentially increasing ones energies and opening up to ones soul's full memory and potential, and Jim exploding onto the scene and already has close to 200 posts in less than 10 days, while Avalon is all abuzz around this.

Hmmm. Makes me wonder too.

Bill. Why not do a skype interview with Jim where you ask the questions?

[bram]

Oh boy, did i throw the baby out with the bathwater. having previously dismissed Scientology as a dangerous cult, I have never read this book......I am also about 25% of the way through it (slow readers eh Gripeaper?) but so far I am blown away. I am resonating and clashing with the book all over. Its such a powerful book, that if I had a hard copy I would be VERY careful where I kept it. BTW I also sensed that there is a protective prescence in the book- I was fleetingly reminded of the minders around a triad boss in some Hong Kong movie.

So far i find:

The description of and action of engrams corresponds exactly with the buddhist explanation of kamma, particularly karmic seeds;
The use of the terms conscious and unconscious corresponds exactly (and predates) Eckhart Tolle's use of the words (and in particular the Pain Body, which is exactly the engram);
I'm not convinced about the four survival aims, or about the descriptions of pain and pleasure (I tend to side with the Buddha on this, and see pleasure and pain as pretty much the same.)

What intrigues me most however, is the description of how engrams are passed to us via the fertilized egg; this confirms what I have read but not understood from tibetan buddhism (via bonpo) that we are literally the continuation of our parents, and puts a whole new slant on the concept of rebirth (for me)- remember what Exodus said about the sins [errors] of the fathers [and mothers]:

''visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation."

Fantastic post, as you can see from the above, its really got me buzzing here!!

Love, bram

[kirolak]

Just my 2c worth - after completing the Self Assessment Test quite superficially, I was amazed by the fact that I suddenly felt like, & ate, a whole banana. :eek:

I had not been able to face bananas since a childhood "trauma" after my mother punished me for helping myself to a banana, without first asking permission The punishment was to eat the entire bunch, after which I never wanted to see, smell or taste another one. . . .so I am impressed!!

[Bill Ryan]

Q and A threads (like this one) are problematic, and unwittingly often invite trouble -- because if a post or a question is missed quite by accident, one is always accused of cherry-picking the questions or evading an issue. In most cases, that is never so.

And here's a perfect case in point! I'd noted at the time -- but had then quite forgotten about :) -- wegge's post here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-Ron-s-Org-Planet-Earth.-Jim-and-the-Future&p=676389&viewfull=1#post676389) (#24 on the previous page), asking about Ken Ogger. (An interesting and disturbing story.) I will definitely respond soonest.

Moral of the story: someone (especially wegge!) might easily have assumed that for some reason I was avoiding the question. Not at all. Just way too many communications (including e-mails and PMs) to deal with easily. (Fred, here's a thought: have you wondered how many PMs Jim may have been getting?)

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Bill a question if i may. ( un loaded )

My auditing experience is limited compared to yours.


When an auditor asks you to think of things does this usuallly as a by product bring up memories and visions of past events ?

If so , where do these visual memories manifest ? ie what part of the brian ,in your opinion , facilitates the recognition of said events ?

AND , Is the e meter trying to read the electromagnetic pulses attributed to extra mind mental energy created by exersizing it ?

Thank you

Naniu

All I can say is that if I ask you to "think of an elephant" (right now) -- or "recall what you had for breakfast" -- the way you experienced your experience would probably be similar to mine.

I just think of an elephant (probably a memory of one I saw in Africa), or remember my coffee and granola.

Ok thank you Bill

So when someone asks me to remeber an elephant or recall breakfast i usually see it in my minds eye .. when i close my eyes i can see it and i can feel the eye pulse as well.

What i have found from Wiki is a bit more info on the third eye and its intrinsic functions associated with the thalimus gland as a processor all forms of perceptional data from all lower and higher parts of the brain .

Quote

" The biological foundation of the mind's eye is not fully understood. fMRI studies have shown that the lateral geniculate nucleus and the V1 area of the visual cortex are activated during mental imagery tasks.[1] Ratey writes:


The visual pathway is not a one-way street. Higher areas of the brain can also send visual input back to neurons in lower areas of the visual cortex... As humans, we have the ability to see with the mind's eye - to have a perceptual experience in the absence of visual input. For example, PET scans have shown that when subjects, seated in a room, imagine they are at their front door starting to walk either to the left or right, activation begins in the visual association cortex, the parietal cortex, and the prefrontal cortex - all higher cognitive processing centers of the brain.[2]

The rudiments of a biological basis for the mind's eye is found in the deeper portions of the brain below the neocortex, or where the center of perception exists. The thalamus has been found to be discrete to other components in that it processes all forms of perceptional data relayed from both lower and higher components of the brain. Damage to this component can produce permanent perceptual damage, however when damage is inflicted upon the cerebral cortex, the brain adapts to neuroplasticity to amend any occlusions for perception. It can be thought that the neocortex is a sophisticated memory storage warehouse in which data received as an input from sensory systems are compartmentalized via the cerebral cortex. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind's_eye

The following text is quite complex and gave me a head ache reading it but it does refer to delta memory ranging between 1 to 4 hz

Quote

Evidence exists that Delta oscillations (1-4 Hz) are generated intrinsically by thalamic relay neurons as a result of the interplay between their low-threshold Ca++ current and hyperpolarization-activated cation current (Amzica and Steriade 1998; McCormick and Pape, 1990).

Both slow and delta oscillations are thought to participate in consolidation of memories acquired during wakefulness (Gais et al., 2000; Stickgold et al., 2000; Maquet 2001; Huber et al., 2004; Steriade and Timofeev, 2003).


http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Models_of_thalamocortical_system


The Following text is a reverse engineering study of an E Meter , older ones like this only read up to 10 hz


quote

The E-meter uses a DC sampling current and the device cannot measure anything beyond 10 Hz.


http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/E-Meter/freq_resp.html


The Nerve endings to the Pineal Gland is in the thumbs and the Thymus is in the Palm , the electromagnetic pulces that run through these related reflexology points are conductors of information. A gadget that is held in the hand can be used to read these organs especially if the units particular tuning correlates with the typical frequency these organs emainate.

: 0 )



http://reflexologyeuphoria.net/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Reflexology_Map_of_both_hands.33715105_large.jpg



So i think when we hold the e meter its reading the electromagnetic pulses of the pineal gland.


Naniu

[Bill Ryan]

Bill (or Jim?) do you know about Ken Ogger aka The Pilot, and if so, what are your thoughts about him and his works?

Apologies for missing the question! :)

I know a little about the story -- but you may know more than I do. Ken Ogger was a Church auditor of some experience, and was also a bit of a maverick. While still in the Church, he started to make extensive internet posts under a pseudonym (to protect himself), 'The Pilot'.

This ongoing blog contained much speculation and interesting ideas, e.g. his notions of developments of new processes and new angles on LRH's existing work (as presented by the Church: as best I know, Ogger did not know anything of CBR's (Bill Robertson's) own research between 1986-90, which extended and expanded LRH's work considerably).

The story did not end happily. The Church's intel department got to work, and they soon found out who he was. A number of things happened after that, and I should be wise enough to be a little careful about putting them in writing.

The outcome was that he was found dead in his swimming pool, with weights tied to his feet. The verdict was suicide.

[Sierra]

The Nerve endings to the Pineal Gland is in the thumbs

Naniu

Well I'll be darned. The Buddhist meditation thumb positions suddenly make sense.

Thanks Naniu. :)

Sierra

[Joe Akulis]

You mean mudras? They would make a nice thread topic, separately. Sometimes I use the one for back pain when I'm jogging.
Not now though. I'm off to find out about this self assessment thing. :-) This thread came along at a good time for me. I've been interested in ways to learn more about who I am, and who I was, and purpose and personal history. I came close last November to setting up a session with a student of Dolores, but backed out of it.

[wegge]

Bill (or Jim?) do you know about Ken Ogger aka The Pilot, and if so, what are your thoughts about him and his works?

Apologies for missing the question! :)

I know a little about the story -- but you may know more than I do. Ken Ogger was a Church auditor of some experience, and was also a bit of a maverick. While still in the Church, he started to make extensive internet posts under a pseudonym (to protect himself), 'The Pilot'.

This ongoing blog contained much speculation and interesting ideas, e.g. his notions of developments of new processes and new angles on LRH's existing work (as presented by the Church: as best I know, Ogger did not know anything of CBR's (Bill Robertson's) own research between 1986-90, which extended and expanded LRH's work considerably).

The story did not end happily. The Church's intel department got to work, and they soon found out who he was. A number of things happened after that, and I should be wise enough to be a little careful about putting them in writing.

The outcome was that he was found dead in his swimming pool, with weights tied to his feet. The verdict was suicide.

thanks for responding Bill and a apologize to you, my question wasn´t clear enough. I already know about the story, I was rather interested in your view on his claims(going from home universes through several others to the magic universe(astral?) and finally this one, which got us all our different subtle bodies) and techniques. I´m also aware that this is probably too big a topic for this thread.^^

kind regards

[Finefeather]

The bottom of my post is a smaller edited copy and paste of the threads I have been reading in the LRH (L. Ron Hubbard) thread. To keep it quick and to the point I copied and pasted the more unbelievable ideas that have caused me to not be able to fully embrace the message. UNFORTUNATELY, the message is so far out from my paradigm that I can't understand the message "JIM" is sharing.
Hi WEAREONE
I am not a Scientologist...all my awakening and inner understanding comes from years of meditation...self and world analysis...and my ability to serve others in the astral and other realms. Here is how I interpret a few of these points you have listed in your post. Although I do not see them with the same colorful rendering as Jim does...I actually have experienced and been shown a very similar idea...which tells me that there is actually some truth in what he is saying...albeit a little jumbled at times. The ones I have not attempted to tackle are too confusing to me...although I have a glimmer of what he might be trying to tell us...wish he would stop forgetting his medication :) (just a joke Jim...I do love you brother :))


80 trillion years ago there was a group of people call the peace bringers ... they were so powerful that everywhere they went they brought peace .. There was another group that were war mongers ... and they were a bit of trouble but the peace bringers thought that could train them and maybe they would change to the better ... but these war mongers decided to infiltrate and steal the tech and use is to try to take over the system ... and many wars happened
There will always be 2 sides...this is basic duality...the perceived good and the perceived bad...life is a wave of duality and it could not be any other way...it really just depends which side of the wall you are standing on. In esoteric writings we are told of the struggle between dark forces and the forces of light. The forces of light are those which seek evolution...enlightenment...expansion...and thus greater awareness and consciousness. The forces of darkness are those who seek material comfort...stagnation...and seek to avoid evolution...which brings with it the knowledge of the brotherhood of man...which leads to love, peace, harmony and balance...as apposed to single mindedness, power mongering, greed and jeoulosy...which leads to wars etc.


We are on a prison planet ... it took them billions of years to create this ... NO ONE ESCAPES from a prison planet ... NO ONE until Siddhartha Gautama Buddha did 2500 years ago ... any religion that tells you that you have no power and only god has power and any other power is the devil will never get you off this planet
it takes a being with a lot of power to get off this planet ... and giving all your power to a god that someone says exists isn't going to get you off the planet.
This in my view is quite acceptable and very true from an esoteric point of view. Call it what you like...”prison planet” is one...but we are here to break free from the bonds...the mistaken ideas...wrong thinking from years of indoctrination...loss of memory ..and much more...ALL...which comes naturally when first 'diving' into dense matter...the road is rocky and the fog is dense...our eyes are blinded and our ears are filled with mud. This has been going on for billions of years in our evolution. The time has now arrived for us to lift ourselves out of the darkness created by the forces of dense matter and rise up to meet the true man inside each one of us. The Buddha demonstrated freedom and Spiritual integrity by his enlightenment....Christ demonstrated Love and the need for knowledge to increase our consciousness and thus gain back our true power and legacy of being true Spiritual Beings...

Love to all...be what you are...a Being of Light.
Ray

[greybeard]

Agreeing with Ray.
According to Adyashanti who studied Zen for 14 years before enlightenment.
He thought that if one of his pupils became enlightened, then that would be worthwhile, he is now saying that many are becoming enlightened thus escaping the wheel of Karma (reincarnation) -- other teachers are saying the same.

http://www.adyashanti.org/

Tony Parsons in UK http://www.theopensecret.com/

It would appear a mass escape is beginning, early stages but what one can do all can do.

Chris

[AriG]

I have, perhaps, a delicate question and my intent is to understand, not necessarily to judge. L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of this church.... his works were bastardized and co-opted by what is now this Church of Scientology? Yes? Perhaps this is an overly-simplified question... Who/what are these beings that have stolen his work and morphed it into something that appears quite evil? Why haven't the supporters of L. Ron's work (Ron's Org?) launched a counter-rebellion? Why has this church been permitted to imprison people, brainwash them and intimidate them so? Why do the Ron's org people not fight back? What' the worst thing that can happen?

[WEAREONE]

The bottom of my post is a smaller edited copy and paste of the threads I have been reading in the LRH (L. Ron Hubbard) thread. To keep it quick and to the point I copied and pasted the more unbelievable ideas that have caused me to not be able to fully embrace the message. UNFORTUNATELY, the message is so far out from my paradigm that I can't understand the message "JIM" is sharing.
Hi WEAREONE
I am not a Scientologist...all my awakening and inner understanding comes from years of meditation...self and world analysis...and my ability to serve others in the astral and other realms. Here is how I interpret a few of these points you have listed in your post. Although I do not see them with the same colorful rendering as Jim does...I actually have experienced and been shown a very similar idea...which tells me that there is actually some truth in what he is saying...albeit a little jumbled at times. The ones I have not attempted to tackle are too confusing to me...although I have a glimmer of what he might be trying to tell us...wish he would stop forgetting his medication :) (just a joke Jim...I do love you brother :))


80 trillion years ago there was a group of people call the peace bringers ... they were so powerful that everywhere they went they brought peace .. There was another group that were war mongers ... and they were a bit of trouble but the peace bringers thought that could train them and maybe they would change to the better ... but these war mongers decided to infiltrate and steal the tech and use is to try to take over the system ... and many wars happened
There will always be 2 sides...this is basic duality...the perceived good and the perceived bad...life is a wave of duality and it could not be any other way...it really just depends which side of the wall you are standing on. In esoteric writings we are told of the struggle between dark forces and the forces of light. The forces of light are those which seek evolution...enlightenment...expansion...and thus greater awareness and consciousness. The forces of darkness are those who seek material comfort...stagnation...and seek to avoid evolution...which brings with it the knowledge of the brotherhood of man...which leads to love, peace, harmony and balance...as apposed to single mindedness, power mongering, greed and jeoulosy...which leads to wars etc.


We are on a prison planet ... it took them billions of years to create this ... NO ONE ESCAPES from a prison planet ... NO ONE until Siddhartha Gautama Buddha did 2500 years ago ... any religion that tells you that you have no power and only god has power and any other power is the devil will never get you off this planet
it takes a being with a lot of power to get off this planet ... and giving all your power to a god that someone says exists isn't going to get you off the planet.
This in my view is quite acceptable and very true from an esoteric point of view. Call it what you like...”prison planet” is one...but we are here to break free from the bonds...the mistaken ideas...wrong thinking from years of indoctrination...loss of memory ..and much more...ALL...which comes naturally when first 'diving' into dense matter...the road is rocky and the fog is dense...our eyes are blinded and our ears are filled with mud. This has been going on for billions of years in our evolution. The time has now arrived for us to lift ourselves out of the darkness created by the forces of dense matter and rise up to meet the true man inside each one of us. The Buddha demonstrated freedom and Spiritual integrity by his enlightenment....Christ demonstrated Love and the need for knowledge to increase our consciousness and thus gain back our true power and legacy of being true Spiritual Beings...

Love to all...be what you are...a Being of Light.

Ray

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I am ok with this viewpoint of the above information, it makes sense. The view I hold that differs a bit is that the good and evil are one. The division an illusion. On the highest level I believe WEAREONE. But that is for another discussion and another thread

The problem I seem to be having is that the discussion of information "JIM" is sharing is kind of hard to decipher where the information is coming from. It appears to be a bit more literal than an esoteric discussion on life and ascencion. It seems to be a bit more factual, full of personal experience. It is one thing to bring up ideas and discussions but is entirely different to say some of the things as fact that seem so "out there" and not really explain if the information is from personal experience, from an auditing session, from a book you read, from an astral journey, from an OOB experience. From meditation etc. For example


these are control religions ... I went back to see Christ on the Cross .. and started running the session myself using the class 8 auditor and her meter to do it.

I got back there ... Christ looked like he was in a very lot of pain ... I decided to go inside his body and see what was happening and a force a very big force was hitting me when I was in his body .. it was too much and I could not stay inside the body .. I got out and I saw a huge oval of gold light in front of him ... I thought he was making it .... I followed the light into the sky and it was a UFO ... and that UFO was hitting Christ with some kind of beam ... and it was flooding the crowd with pictures to create a future dark age ... I yelled ... it was a trick ... it was a trick ... it was a trick ..

Is that message to be taken literally, if so how is that possible from an auditing session, or was that information gathered from an OOB experience, astral projection, perhaps my limited understanding of Scientology does not allow me to grasp how one can have such an experience. By using the tools of Scientology.

It seems to me others have had the same issue with the information. It leaves me thinking if this is true, how can someone make such statements and have gained such knowledge and not be able to turn around and share the information in a clear manner that would allow the reader to better decipher message. It doesnt really matter how the information was gathered, but to just simply put it out there so casually seems odd. I would like to imagine If I was able to attain a level of mastery and knowledge of such important information I would be better able to convey my message to others. It appears that is not possible, so I will continue on my journey and will look into the tools of Scientology and will read books, watch videos and hopefully continue to grow and learn.

[Bill Ryan]

I have, perhaps, a delicate question and my intent is to understand, not necessarily to judge. L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of this church.... his works were bastardized and co-opted by what is now this Church of Scientology? Yes?

Yes.


Perhaps this is an overly-simplified question... Who/what are these beings that have stolen his work and morphed it into something that appears quite evil?

The same [kinds of] beings who run Monsanto, the Federal Reserve, the logging, oil and strip mining companies, the media, the music business, the psych wards. It's all part of the attempt at global takeover. For the 'Church', it's actually not going very well. (See below.)


Why haven't the supporters of L. Ron's work (Ron's Org?) launched a counter-rebellion?

They have! See below.


Why has this church been permitted to imprison people, brainwash them and intimidate them so?

For the same reasons that many other unethical things can take place on this planet, and apparently remain unpunished.


Why do the Ron's org people not fight back?

But they do. There's a LOT of good information out there for those who want to spend a little time digging. And much of the 'fight back' occurs in spiritual realms. The 'Church' is not nearly as powerful or influential as it was, or wants to be.


What's the worse thing that can happen?

Read this post here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-Ron-s-Org-Planet-Earth.-Jim-and-the-Future&p=676893&viewfull=1#post676893) (#62 above) -- about what happened to 'Church' maverick Ken Ogger.

[Bill Ryan]

It leaves me thinking if this is true, how can someone make such statements and have gained such knowledge and not be able to turn around and share the information in a clear manner that would allow the reader to better decipher message.

My own answer to this same question is this:

1) Someone new to this planet (or to a human body) might have a really naive, 'Noble Savage' kind of approach to communicating. If we regard Jim as an ET, for instance, he might find himself really bewildered about how to communicate effectively with Earthlings. And he certainly would be bewildered by a complex structure like an internet forum.:)

2) The following is a situation I've encountered before. Someone can be really awake, aware, selfless, inspired -- and yet still be, for instance, dyslexic. That's partly (or maybe completely) 'hard-wired', and is not changed very much by spiritual development. You can do yoga for 50 years -- and it will not improve one's spelling or sentence construction. (A loose analogy, but you may get the point!)

[donk]

I must have missed this? What is this (OTIII):



http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/OTIII/ot3-data-1.gif



Is that Hubbard "getting it right"? Channeled information? Revelation from source? Disinfo?

Is it accepted around here?

[Bill Ryan]

What is this (OTIII):


Yes, as far as I can see that's LRH's handwriting, and these are his research notes -- his own session data. Much of his research was done solo at first, and after that he would put together processes to address what he felt he had found, and test them out on volunteers to see if it actually worked.

The OT 3 stuff is pretty way out (and has been very often ridiculed by critics), but those who have run processes on it report that the processes seem to work, and that a very great of charge is released.

My own take on it is that it seems hard to believe, but in pragmatic auditing terms it does seem to work. I asked my own auditor (at the time) about this many years ago -- whether all this was 'real'.

His reply was wise. He said: "I don't know whether it's real, or whether any of that really happened. But that may not matter. You don't have to believe anything. Thousands of people have reported that it works for auditing purposes, and all I can tell you is that people who run the processes get a great deal of expanded awareness and ability from it. And that's all that counts."

[Kano]

What is this (OTIII):


Yes, as far as I can see that's LRH's handwriting, and these are his research notes -- his own session data. Much of his research was done solo at first, and after that he would put together processes to address what he felt he had found, and test them out on volunteers to see if it actually worked.

The OT 3 stuff is pretty way out (and has been very often ridiculed by critics), but those who have run processes on it report that the processes seem to work, and that a very great of charge is released.

My own take on it is that it seems hard to believe, but in pragmatic auditing terms it does seem to work. I asked my own auditor (at the time) about this many years ago -- whether all this was 'real'.

His reply was wise. He said: "I don't know whether it's real, or whether any of that really happened. But that may not matter. You don't have to believe anything. Thousands of people have reported that it works for auditing purposes, and all I can tell you is that people who run the processes get a great deal of expanded awareness and ability from it. And that's all that counts."

Perhaps this has been asked, so please excuse the redundancy if so, but why does a Scientologist need someone to help them think (The auditing process. The term "auditing" still kills me.) or progress in their own lives? Isn't that like buying a self help book written by someone else? Do you see the irony? Isn't the purest path to enlightenment walked alone?

[Sierra]

What is this (OTIII):


Yes, as far as I can see that's LRH's handwriting, and these are his research notes -- his own session data. Much of his research was done solo at first, and after that he would put together processes to address what he felt he had found, and test them out on volunteers to see if it actually worked.

The OT 3 stuff is pretty way out (and has been very often ridiculed by critics), but those who have run processes on it report that the processes seem to work, and that a very great of charge is released.

My own take on it is that it seems hard to believe, but in pragmatic auditing terms it does seem to work. I asked my own auditor (at the time) about this many years ago -- whether all this was 'real'.

His reply was wise. He said: "I don't know whether it's real, or whether any of that really happened. But that may not matter. You don't have to believe anything. Thousands of people have reported that it works for auditing purposes, and all I can tell you is that people who run the processes get a great deal of expanded awareness and ability from it. And that's all that counts."

Perhaps this has been asked, so please excuse the redundancy if so, but why does a Scientologist need someone to help them think (The auditing process. The term "auditing" still kills me.) or progress in their own lives? Isn't that like buying a self help book written by someone else? Do you see the irony? Isn't the purest path to enlightenment walked alone?

Eventually. :)

Yes, I agree with you, but until a lot of garbage is cleared out, it is hard to walk alone. Without clarity, one needs defense against what was done to one by others, and that requires support (such as an Abrahamic religion, therapy, authority guru types etc.) One has to love one's self, trust one's self. Let go of the filters. Drop the ego, which is the hardest part. Accept the stuff one is seeing that comes through. Become awake.

I suspect it is the astral or emotional body that needs the most cleansing before one can hear one's High self.

Just the fact that the CIA moved in and squashed these tools, confirms for me they were real tools that did the work to allow people to walk alone.

All of this is just. my. opinion. :)

Sierra

[WEAREONE]

Why do the Ron's org people not fight back?But they do. There's a LOT of good information out there for those who want to spend a little time digging. And much of the 'fight back' occurs in spiritual realms. The 'Church' is not nearly as powerful or influential as it was, or wants to be.



Im not having much luck looking for the groups fighting back. I will re read the threads and look again, but as I have little knowledge of Scientology nor the groups involved perhaps you can give a list of people organizations to look further into. Google search of Rons Org has led me to some websites that seem a bit off
and others that seem safe and worthy of exploring. I would appreciate any suggestions for what to avoid and what to look into more. Heres two examples of websites one of which I think I will avoid the other look further.

http://www.ronsorg.com/-- This one seems like a good starting point to look further











http://www.ronsorg.org/tableofcontents/sector9/sobn21.htm---this one seems like I might need to use discretion while viewing

Sector Operations Bulletin No. 21
The Third World War
230284 1130 GMT OTB UK
The Third World War (WW III) is now in full action. It has been going on for many years - skirmishes, guerilla actions, and small isolated pitched battles, with clandestine operations of large and small scale constantly being carried out.
You won't read about this war in the newspapers or see it on television, because the Press and TV are being used as weapons in it.

Other weapons include drugs, radiation, computers, chemicals, microbes, propaganda, viruses, pollution, carcinogens, political sideshows, and the threats of use of atomic and hydrogen bombs.

Weapons that are very effective are economic pressure, taxation, and insidious substitution of real values with paper, cards and electrons.

Blackmail, peer-group pressure, conformity, and status orientation are powerful weaponry also.

Added to the exoteric are several esoteric devices or weapons for use in WW III which include covert invalidation, subliminal pictures on TV, psychiatric recommendations, depressants, hallucinogens, electric shock, tepaphones, intention projectors, -biological energy field restimulators and decay producers, and direct spiritual telepathic attack methods.

You and every person on Earth are in this war whether you like it or not, whether you agree or not, whether you believe it exists or not.

It is a

It is the WAR FOR THE CONTROL OF MEN'S MINDS.

WW III is not being directed by persons from Earth.

[donk]

Outsiders claim that is the "creation story" of Scientology, the ultimate teaching.

My struggle for understanding of all this I have felt is that I have not achieved a high enough "level" of tech...that document supposedly containing the highest of the high. As in, where thetans come from and why we have all these problems.

Are you saying that is a metaphor, a musing? Code? Not to be taken literally?

It is definitely not channeled information? No one has any specifics on the inspiration?

If I'm not mistaken, it's being taken as literal history currently on the LRH thread (of course, that could be my mistake on not having enough information/tech)...I feel like you "dodged" my question?

[Christine]

Perhaps this has been asked, so please excuse the redundancy if so, but why does a Scientologist need someone to help them think (The auditing process. The term "auditing" still kills me.) or progress in their own lives? Isn't that like buying a self help book written by someone else? Do you see the irony? Isn't the purest path to enlightenment walked alone?

Hi Kano,

The above statement is a bit confusing.. .. the use of the tools (processes) first presented as Scientology isn't about helping people think. They are used to help a person release the things that keep them from having a fulfilling life. Remove the blocks and stones that keep us trapped as it were.

We all need help along the way. Even those who isolate themselves or think they are walking alone are quite dependent on others. Just as one example: How books have you read that sparked a new idea or way of looking at things helping you along the way?

The whole point of any ethical spiritual system is to release a person from limits and find their True Self.

I actually hated the word auditor until I understood a little more. This is a definition that works for me.



Definition of auditor:

One who hears; a listener.

beholder, observer, perceiver, percipient - a person who becomes aware (of things or events) through the senses.

[from Old French auditeur, from Latin audītor a hearer]

The auditors code is also sacred, so much so that they should be able to hold a clean space with no thought of their own entering a session.

Hope this helps.

[AriG]

Read this post here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-Ron-s-Org-Planet-Earth.-Jim-and-the-Future&p=676893&viewfull=1#post676893) (#62 above) -- about what happened to 'Church' maverick Ken Ogger.

I greatly appreciate the response. Thank you. I really do think that those of you in Ron's org have a huge opportunity to put the nail in the coffin of this sociopathic group. As far as "swimming with the fishes" goes, I've always liked what David Icke has had to say about such things. " So What"? Its going to happen, one way or another anyway. They don't gain power by these actions, they lose. With the audience that is Project Avalon/Camelot, and with the help of your associates such as David Icke, you could really do a meaningful expose and restore the true intent of the founder of the Church. Take it back, so to speak. Yes, there have been MSM exposes, but they don't present the whole picture with the value of the techniques outside of the constraints of the cult. There is no doubt that your followers would support you.

[Bill Ryan]

Outsiders claim that is the "creation story" of Scientology, the ultimate teaching.


No, not true at all. :)

[jiminii]

It leaves me thinking if this is true, how can someone make such statements and have gained such knowledge and not be able to turn around and share the information in a clear manner that would allow the reader to better decipher message.

My own answer to this same question is this:

1) Someone new to this planet (or to a human body) might have a really naive, 'Noble Savage' kind of approach to communicating. If we regard Jim as an ET, for instance, he might find himself really bewildered about how to communicate effectively with Earthlings. And he certainly would be bewildered by a complex structure like an internet forum.:)

2) The following is a situation I've encountered before. Someone can be really awake, aware, selfless, inspired -- and yet still be, for instance, dyslexic. That's partly (or maybe completely) 'hard-wired', and is not changed very much by spiritual development. You can do yoga for 50 years -- and it will not improve one's spelling or sentence construction. (A loose analogy, but you may get the point!)

yes it is much easier for me to talk in electronics with electronics people and tech than talk in this social system people use . I understand what they are saying ... just don't understand how to use those kinds of words to answer them back

jim

[Bill Ryan]

Perhaps this has been asked, so please excuse the redundancy if so, but why does a Scientologist need someone to help them think (The auditing process. The term "auditing" still kills me.) or progress in their own lives? Isn't that like buying a self help book written by someone else? Do you see the irony? Isn't the purest path to enlightenment walked alone?

Yes -- I fully understand. This is verbatim from one of CBR's (Bill Rpbertson's) major briefings (The name commonly given to it is Admin Briefing One).

There is some jargon there (this was not a public lecture), but what he's saying is that eventually you have to erase all the emotional charge you might have accumulated through being dependent on someone else to assist you in your personal development. So your point is well taken, and agreed with.






So anyway, what we are doing here is removing the tendency for the guy to go into a game and contract, because that's what makes a case. So you might say, that we are in the business of running ourselves out of business. If we audit everybody until they have this understanding at OT 40, there won't be any more business for auditors. Well, that is meaning that you have to take a bigger responsibility than just running yourself as being in the game of being an auditor.

You see what I mean? You have to get out of that game as well, you see? And want a new game that's totally expanding. And I tell you something else: that Scientology ITSELF can be considered a game. The auditing part and so on. And Ron always said, on a tape or several times, he said that "in the end you will have to run out your track of Scientology auditing as well". Because it is that degree other-determined and is that degree of via through the MEST universe. You know you had to use a meter and you had sit in a room and the guy had to give you the time to be there and all that, and thus it's a bit...- even though you WANTED to do it, and even though you came WILLINGLY to do it – it still is a bit of a via and it's a bit other-determined, you see? So you DO. There is a point in the Super Static Rundown where – it's one of those little points in there – where you run out your track of auditing.

[donk]

It is true that outsiders CLAIM that as the highest most secret of teachings...I am sharing a perspective in hopes you can clear it up (especially whilst people are discussing the details in the LRH thread, as if it is something to be discussed as a piece of true history).

I don't disbelieve anything, just looking for clarity, sharing a view from the outside in hopes of being enlightened. I would appreciate anyone familiar's take on that particular teaching.

Is it ramblings taken out of context?

Is it Hubbard's "truth" once he was completely "clear"?

Is there any divine or ET inspiration?

Is there "levels", stepped teachings, to Hubbard's work? Or is that complete myth/bastardization?

I have shared with you the info I was able to find--which is kind of the mainstream view, kindly share your interpretation/data? Thanks


ADDED:

I guess what gets me is this:


Thousands of people have reported that it works for auditing purposes, and all I can tell you is that people who run the processes get a great deal of expanded awareness and ability from it. And that's all that counts."

If I interpret your original answer correctly, you are saying that not only is it not an important teaching, it is not even a story (which is how I read it). Instead it describes some "processes" that can be "run" to expand awareness and abilities? I am really lost now...what processes would that be?

[jiminii]

The bottom of my post is a smaller edited copy and paste of the threads I have been reading in the LRH (L. Ron Hubbard) thread. To keep it quick and to the point I copied and pasted the more unbelievable ideas that have caused me to not be able to fully embrace the message. UNFORTUNATELY, the message is so far out from my paradigm that I can't understand the message "JIM" is sharing.
Hi WEAREONE
I am not a Scientologist...all my awakening and inner understanding comes from years of meditation...self and world analysis...and my ability to serve others in the astral and other realms. Here is how I interpret a few of these points you have listed in your post. Although I do not see them with the same colorful rendering as Jim does...I actually have experienced and been shown a very similar idea...which tells me that there is actually some truth in what he is saying...albeit a little jumbled at times. The ones I have not attempted to tackle are too confusing to me...although I have a glimmer of what he might be trying to tell us...wish he would stop forgetting his medication :) (just a joke Jim...I do love you brother :))


80 trillion years ago there was a group of people call the peace bringers ... they were so powerful that everywhere they went they brought peace .. There was another group that were war mongers ... and they were a bit of trouble but the peace bringers thought that could train them and maybe they would change to the better ... but these war mongers decided to infiltrate and steal the tech and use is to try to take over the system ... and many wars happened
There will always be 2 sides...this is basic duality...the perceived good and the perceived bad...life is a wave of duality and it could not be any other way...it really just depends which side of the wall you are standing on. In esoteric writings we are told of the struggle between dark forces and the forces of light. The forces of light are those which seek evolution...enlightenment...expansion...and thus greater awareness and consciousness. The forces of darkness are those who seek material comfort...stagnation...and seek to avoid evolution...which brings with it the knowledge of the brotherhood of man...which leads to love, peace, harmony and balance...as apposed to single mindedness, power mongering, greed and jeoulosy...which leads to wars etc.


We are on a prison planet ... it took them billions of years to create this ... NO ONE ESCAPES from a prison planet ... NO ONE until Siddhartha Gautama Buddha did 2500 years ago ... any religion that tells you that you have no power and only god has power and any other power is the devil will never get you off this planet
it takes a being with a lot of power to get off this planet ... and giving all your power to a god that someone says exists isn't going to get you off the planet.
This in my view is quite acceptable and very true from an esoteric point of view. Call it what you like...”prison planet” is one...but we are here to break free from the bonds...the mistaken ideas...wrong thinking from years of indoctrination...loss of memory ..and much more...ALL...which comes naturally when first 'diving' into dense matter...the road is rocky and the fog is dense...our eyes are blinded and our ears are filled with mud. This has been going on for billions of years in our evolution. The time has now arrived for us to lift ourselves out of the darkness created by the forces of dense matter and rise up to meet the true man inside each one of us. The Buddha demonstrated freedom and Spiritual integrity by his enlightenment....Christ demonstrated Love and the need for knowledge to increase our consciousness and thus gain back our true power and legacy of being true Spiritual Beings...

Love to all...be what you are...a Being of Light.

Ray

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I am ok with this viewpoint of the above information, it makes sense. The view I hold that differs a bit is that the good and evil are one. The division an illusion. On the highest level I believe WEAREONE. But that is for another discussion and another thread

The problem I seem to be having is that the discussion of information "JIM" is sharing is kind of hard to decipher where the information is coming from. It appears to be a bit more literal than an esoteric discussion on life and ascencion. It seems to be a bit more factual, full of personal experience. It is one thing to bring up ideas and discussions but is entirely different to say some of the things as fact that seem so "out there" and not really explain if the information is from personal experience, from an auditing session, from a book you read, from an astral journey, from an OOB experience. From meditation etc. For example


these are control religions ... I went back to see Christ on the Cross .. and started running the session myself using the class 8 auditor and her meter to do it.

I got back there ... Christ looked like he was in a very lot of pain ... I decided to go inside his body and see what was happening and a force a very big force was hitting me when I was in his body .. it was too much and I could not stay inside the body .. I got out and I saw a huge oval of gold light in front of him ... I thought he was making it .... I followed the light into the sky and it was a UFO ... and that UFO was hitting Christ with some kind of beam ... and it was flooding the crowd with pictures to create a future dark age ... I yelled ... it was a trick ... it was a trick ... it was a trick ..

Is that message to be taken literally, if so how is that possible from an auditing session, or was that information gathered from an OOB experience, astral projection, perhaps my limited understanding of Scientology does not allow me to grasp how one can have such an experience. By using the tools of Scientology.

It seems to me others have had the same issue with the information. It leaves me thinking if this is true, how can someone make such statements and have gained such knowledge and not be able to turn around and share the information in a clear manner that would allow the reader to better decipher message. It doesnt really matter how the information was gathered, but to just simply put it out there so casually seems odd. I would like to imagine If I was able to attain a level of mastery and knowledge of such important information I would be better able to convey my message to others. It appears that is not possible, so I will continue on my journey and will look into the tools of Scientology and will read books, watch videos and hopefully continue to grow and learn.

the auditor did not know I was doing this on my own ... there was a guy who said he was audited and found out he was jesus christ ... and I was new in this scientology and we are not suppose to evaluate or invalidate but he is telling me that the marks of crusifixtion were on his hands .. sometimes appearing ... and then he flashes ... and says "you were one of the criminals on the cross and the other criminal was LRH and on those crosses we decided to salvage this planet ... well I was already in trouble with scientology because of the powers I had ... I could move my hands trying to explain something and the entire org speeded up and this person I was talking to rushed me out of the org ... she said, "I am OT3 and you should go back to the mission you came from) ... I got back to the mission and was told I disturbed the entire Sea Org base over there and they thought maybe I was on drugs... I asked what happened ... they said : it made everyone in the org move faster what ever I did .. .. so this guy talking about being christ ??? well I couldn't get the think he put in me out of my head and I was afraid to report him because he was in data division and I had no idea what would happen if I did report him ... i just didn't want what he said in my head ... so I took the chance in session to go back and and look and i stepped in both criminals and knew I had nothing to do with them ... but go into Christ body ... if felt like some huge piece of concrete was slamming up against me ... not me a body but me a spirit and that is a lot different feeling .. you can have something slam up against your body ... but only the body feels it ... this was hitting the being inside .. and I just had to get out ... so my cognition was they were trying to stop christ from finishing what he wanted to do ... some kind of spiritual awaking or something ... and this UFO was cloaked in gold and I saw they were radiating something out to the crowds .. which at first made me think that christ was sending some kind of light ..means spiritual awareness of some kind ... no .. that ufo was implanting the area ... so I yelled it was a trick ... I had no previous knowledge of Scientology other than the books I read so I didn't know people could have a "winning valance" ... valance means the assumed personality of someone else like you act like your father or mother sometimes .. a winning valance would be to take on the valance of some famous personality and believe you are him ... well you have to audit all these valences out to find the person himself ... but I didn't know that at the time

jim

[Bill Ryan]

Is it ramblings taken out of context?

Is it Hubbard's "truth" once he was completely "clear"?

Is there any divine or ET inspiration?

None at all -- it's all 'session data'. I realize that I might not have explained properly what that means -- and so if that wasn't clear, I apologize!

Session data means the information (responses) you get when running a process. An invented example might be if you had a sense of being abandoned, and told the auditor about when no-one came to help when you fell out of a tree when you were a child.

If that did not resolve when "running the incident" (and there are specific and exact techniques for that: see the 1950 Dianetics book (http://projectavalon.net/DMSMH.PDF) I posted earlier on this thread) -- then the auditor will ask you if there is an earlier similar incident.

At that point you might start getting images of (say) a dusty battlefield in France. (This could also be guided by 'reads' from the meter, using it as a kind of biofeedback device which let the auditor know when you are thinking a thought that has an emotional charge attached to it.)

The auditor would ask you to tell him what you see in that scene, guiding you skillfully by asking questions -- and suggesting nothing. You might gradually realize you had fallen off a horse, and the horse was running away leaving you with a broken leg in the mud -- and no-one came to help.

All that (the battlefield scene) is 'session data'. It doesn't matter whether it's "true" or not. We might never know. But if the emotional charge is released -- like no longer being scared of horses, or of heights, or of being abandoned -- then that's the goal. Do you see?

It's not an archaeological dig for its own sake, or a time machine. :) It's a therapeutic process intended to assist you in becoming more able, confident and competent -- right now. The past is all gone, and is only relevant to the degree that it affects us in present time.


Is there "levels", stepped teachings, to Hubbard's work? Or is that complete myth/bastardization?

There are 'levels' of progressing ability, or capability, or awareness, just as there are in Buddhism, for instance. The best presentation I've heard of it came from another Forum member, as it happens, just yesterday.

(By the way, the concept of 'teaching' is never used. There is nothing 'taught' in that sense, at all, or nothing that one is urged to believe. If done right and applied ethically, it's all about personal sovereignty, and regaining one's own knowledge and certainty -- not that of anyone else.

The dictum throughout is that what's real is what's real for you. Hubbard emphasized that all the time.)

Back to topic. :) This very smart Forum member talked about levels of reality -- and then the auditing levels pretty much correspond to that: as one journeys through the auditing levels, those levels of reality are made more accessible.

An analogy in another field (about which I have little personal experience) might be OBEs and astral traveling. I am told, if I understand it right, that there are 'levels' there, too. (Maybe Jake can confirm!)

One's expertise, or level of expertise, then enables one to access different planes. This is nothing to do with auditing, but it's just a metaphor. There are also levels in Reiki, Meditation (so I'm told), Yoga, and in many other realms of acquired skill and ability. This is no different.


I have shared with you the info I was able to find--which is kind of the mainstream view, kindly share your interpretation/data?

Done, as best I can.

[Hervé]

It is true that outsiders CLAIM that as the highest most secret of teachings...I am sharing a perspective in hopes you can clear it up (especially whilst people are discussing the details in the LRH thread, as if it is something to be discussed as a piece of true history).

I don't disbelieve anything, just looking for clarity, sharing a view from the outside in hopes of being enlightened. I would appreciate anyone familiar's take on that particular teaching.

Is it ramblings taken out of context?

Is it Hubbard's "truth" once he was completely "clear"?

Is there any divine or ET inspiration?

Is there "levels", stepped teachings, to Hubbard's work? Or is that complete myth/bastardization?

I have shared with you the info I was able to find--which is kind of the mainstream view, kindly share your interpretation/data? Thanks

Bill will probably have a different answer than mine, however here is mine:

The OT III materials are not "teachings," they represent one of the main stumbling block into which anyone, from planet Earth, on their way to "enlightment" runs into. The actual teachings of the applied philosophy that is Scientology are aimed to rehabilitate the abilities of a being/individual/spirit/thetan once past the main stumbling blocks inhibiting such recovering of abilities (see this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59041-LRH--L.-Ron-Hubbard-&p=676278&viewfull=1#post676278) <---).

The OT III materials were confidential for different reasons. One of them being that it could be very lethally harmful to someone unprepared when running into it.

Another reason is probably that LRH didn't want the "enemy" to get the data and use those to further their mind-control programs.

The other thing for the propaganda and flack against Scientology, LRH and OTs and why the CIA and KGB were after him, stem from this:


[...]

From someone who's been there, done that... Ingo Swann in his book "Penetration (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_telepathy.htm)":

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/misc/quote_icon.png[...]

The work (in developing remote viewing) was largely funded by the U.S. intelligence agencies. Because of this, many Washington types and many noted scientists visited SRI. Very many of them met only with my colleagues, and refused to meet little Moi, so much so that they would not even take lunch with me.

The reason: “Jesús, he can read my mind! I can’t let him get anywhere near me.”

This quote is NOT paraphrased.

[...]

That example gives also a clue as to why so much flack against LRH research and the rehabilitation of OT abilities because it triggers a phenomenon that's called "missing a withhold" whereby someone thinks another may have found out about some murky dealings said someone has been involved with and triggers a fury from hell [against the suspected discoverer] that pales the one from a scorned woman...

Rockefeller's puppet, Henry Kissinger, however knew he had been found out about unleashing CIA's shady attacks against LRH and Scientology... LRH had Kissinger by the balls, so to speak:


I say "Rock Festival". It's not a musical event. It was a war, actually. That was when the American Embassy had tipped off the local Communist Party there that the 'Apollo' was a CIA ship. Portugal had just gone through the throes of its revolution, so at the time it was very 'left wing'.

And the Communists formed a big mob with torches and stones and rocks and everything and they came down to burn the ship. About 250 of them. And we fought them off for two hours and finally the local maritime police showed up with machine guns and dispersed the mob after they had knocked the Harbor-Master nearly unconscious in front of our ship with a 'two by four'. And we took him on board, gave him First Aid and he called some tug-boats and took us out to anchor where we would be safe.

At that point, LRH said - there was also some guys of our crew chased with knives down the street and so on - but still, no one got hurt from our side. Well, two people got knocked out by rocks, but they just didn't stay down. But none of the family was hurt. LRH was not hurt. Mary Sue was not hurt. Nobody else was hurt.

And LRH decided then that it was time to leave this area. It was getting a little too bit agitated by these US Government people. When we traced back the lines it always came from the United States and that was when a guy named Henry Kissinger was the Secretary of State. The orders were coming from his office through the Embassies and CIA.


So we went down to the Caribbean, through the Bahamas and so on. And finally the State Department of the United States with Kissinger at the wheel - you know Kissinger is one of the top SMERSH guys, as you know - a Public Relations man normally, although he opens his mouth a little bit too much most of the time - but he's one of the 'evil beings' on the planet.

He then started telexing his Embassies and so on in Barbados and Curacao, and what's the name of that place with all the oil and stuff there? Oh yeah - I've got it written right here - Oh yeah, I know what it is. This goes into 1975, I've just got to bring you up a year. Barbados, Trinidad and Curacao. We had attacks in all those places.

We were able to handle most of them because these countries are very small. We did get asked to leave a few ports and nobody could understand why, except it was some 'pressure' from the United States, they would "cut their foreign Aid" or something if they did (welcome us).

We also captured some telexes directly from the State Department that gave these orders and these were used in a lawsuit that LRH asked to be brought against Kissinger, the State Department, and several other named Embassy and American consular officials. And it was filed in the United States. An 800 million dollar lawsuit against Henry Kissinger and other people in the State Department, who were in office at the time, by the way.

Now, the United States Government went through a whole series of convolutions to keep this a secret. It never appeared in the press. And this suit will become important in the next years, so just remember that.

That suit is now being pushed, pushed, pushed in 1975 through the courts in the United States, trying to get somebody to open it up, make it public, accept it, DO IT, see?

(A DEBRIEF by CAPT. W. B. Robertson RA, Sector 9)
Edit:


Bill will probably have a different answer than mine, however here is mineOoopss... too slow :)

[Nanoo Nanoo]

The Nerve endings to the Pineal Gland is in the thumbs

Naniu

Well I'll be darned. The Buddhist meditation thumb positions suddenly make sense.

Thanks Naniu. :)

Sierra

Yes Sierra

The fingers and thumbs are like an old operators swith board, if positioned correctly can re route signals to better amplify certain parts of the brain. Mudras are much like this. Sensitives often feel who you are through the hand shake as this is a direct transfer of information from palm to palm.

This why the E Meter uses the hands to read minute electrical impulses. Seeing that all questions posed to an auditee , regardless of what mode they are in , will stimulate the thymus gland in terms of creating a direct processor emission signal. The E meter is specifically attuned to read these and is obvious it would be in order to help read brain wave activity.

Im not trying to take away from LRH's legacy. I dont have an opinion about scientology either way. I believe that with such a machine as the E Meter coupled with a person that is genuine and well trained in healing practice and using a subject who is in complete belief of the e meters effectiveness that " Healing " can most definitely be done.

I would not be surprised , depending on the integrity of the Auditor that one could make the auditee do and say anything as a result in the proportional belief and convition invested in the church and auditing system.

All healing practice relies on a conviction of its process. The ailments within our mind is a program we put there with a propencity to repeat a thought process which in turn becomes a belief and then a program. This repetition process then ingrains its self in our bodies and organs. Just like writing the word Love on a bottle of water can change the waters crystaline structure , so too can this happen with repetitive thought on the cells of our bodies.

Why is it so ? ( thank you professor Sumner Miller ) I believe that the word
" Love " gains its power from the belief proportionally invested in the word which in turn makes it a symbol. When this Symbol is written onto a body that can resonate its vibratory emination, the body then picks up on this and depending on its propencity to believe and then absorb the emination, is then affected by the symbol in which case is Love and everything is stands for. It is a symbol because of the great investment of spiritual and scientific energy mass which is " thought " enhanced by " emotion " as a multiplier. The visulisation of this word is very much iof not always associated with a beneficial or caring moment., the pensive thought process during this moment in turn adds to the symbol of Love as an alive entitiy of its own right. Even when love causes pain it is a sweet pain which is always returned to or attributed to fondness of being.

Reiki practitioners draw reiki symbols on their bodies to amplify their auric field. Ive seen them do it and they report being in a state of bliss. I have tried this and found the greater i practiced these symbols the more powerful they became with healing etc. I believe this is because of the proportional belief and repetitve programming invested in the practice that gave my mind the ability to chanel their intended purpose. The symbol is merely just that... its a switch for a correlated number of synaptic pathways that open when we believe in that symbol and what it represents. And that is intrinsically how we work.

Holographically our inner sun and mind house the soul and the soul can be acessed by using the minds eye as a teleport for wherever we wish to travel.

immagination
kindness
intention
love
forgiveness
excitement

these all direct your inner sun to good places which eminate similar frequencies.. like attracts like in this example.

Naniu

[Bill Ryan]

Is it a question that just shouldn't be asked? Is it a challenge to a claim or info given? Is it pointing out inconsistencies, discrepancies, or red flags, and asking how come? Is it an unconscious engram being restimulated, that simply needs to be audited? Is it wondering why the sudden avalanche of Scientology tech here, starting with the introduction of a previously unknown Scientology super hero? Is it wondering why we suddenly have to have a new leader figure to guide us young'uns out of the briar patch?


Hey Fred,

You know what really perplexes me?

Well, it´s the undeniable fact that such subject gained that much traction here based on huge, unverifiable and unfounded claims made by someone who believes to be the second coming of Jesus or something close to it.

This is really impressive; If there was an yearly gullibility award, PA would be a serious candidate to win it.


Raf -- I really understand.

But Simon Parkes claims experiences that can't be proved. Inelia told astonishing stories that can't be proved (including many that were never published: we edited them out of her interview because they were too sensational).

Clif High's calculated predictions can't be proved. (Has anyone checked his math?!) David Icke can't prove his experience when he took ayahuasca in Peru a few years ago and listened to a discarnate women talking to him for many hours.

I saw an ET physically appear in my bedroom in 1984. I can't prove that, either. Neither can Jake prove any of his OBEs.

Henry Deacon can't prove he's been to Mars.

In fact -- the world is FULL of astonishing personal experiences. Most of the most important experiences in anyone's life can't be 'proved'.

But that doesn't mean that someone should not be frustrated or confused at all the bewildering claims. So that's why I understand.

All people can do -- if they can find the courage -- is report their experience. It took over 20 years for me to summon the courage to report my ET experience to anyone other than a couple of friends.

That's why Avalon is an exceptional community: because in the 50,000+ threads we have here, there are hundreds -- maybe thousands -- of personal posts where people have trusted the community enough to share their crazy unprovable stories.

Raf, remember the spiders you 'saw'? That's one example of many. (I won't ask you to prove it! I do not believe you were lying or deluded. But by sharing that story, you actually helped many others who were trying to makes sense of their own experiences.) That's why this is important.

We're all story-telling here, round the campfire -- and that is a time-honored, ancient tradition. Any student of traditional cultures knows that story-telling is a really important activity -- and is not trivial at all. If people learn from the stories... that's what is important.

We do need to be scientists, and I have the deepest respect for you for that commitment within yourself -- but there's also much more to life and experience than just that. Sometimes, we may never know the truth... but can learn from it nonetheless.

[StephenW11UK]

Hello Bill,

I very much appreciate your sharing with us for whom this is quite new - and years after the Dan Tops interview - something of your deep understanding of how the original scientology works

To improve some aspect of my life I have often used a method or product recommended by some (hopefully genuine) expert to move beyond it. But it has soon become obvious that it wasn't going to work or perhaps I'd just hear the words: "It'll work for others, but not for you".

The main theme of the other programme seems to be that, no matter how successful, competent, caring (or whatever) I at first seem to be in some new situation, I'll bugger it all up and prove that I'm just another of the 'sheeple'. As an example, I was allowed to do quite well in my French studies, but not long after I started teaching I had lost control in the classroom and so proved to people (again) that I was a failure in life.

Despite my having over the last 15-20 years made use of numbers of different therapies and therapists, including a lot of NLP, none of them really worked for me.

Actually, the only tools to have ever produced lots of pleasant changes in my life are those offered by Pleiadians Plus (Barbara Marciniak), that I've been using for some 18 months. I also still use a couple of techniques from James.

En passant, it's taken me close on two hours to put together these few sentences.. But I don't give up easily - so a question or two for you, Bill.

As I too want auditing to "cut through my life junk like a knife through butter", would I be wise in arranging for a more experienced auditor through the Ron's Org at Bristol rather than via the (apparently) new Org at Milton Keynes. I live in central west London (Kensington-NottingHill)? Or is there someone competent in London itself? Or just choose anyone they suggest?

Sincerely,

Stephen

[Azt]

My 5 cents ... I have noticed that the Scientology theme has basically took over the topics here on project avalon ... Perhaps, it is the old divide-conquest tactics being played so we put our efforts on discussing it, I am not saying it is not worth to discuss it but as I learned so far reading all the posts, isn`t there a third party on this subject that want us all loose our focus on other current issues ? Anyway, not judging but just questioning.
Peace to all.

[Czarek]

....that want us all loose our focus on other current issues ? Anyway, not judging but just questioning.
Peace to all.

Azt, I totally respect your position and understand it. The problem with dianetics tech, at least for me has been with the dianetics book itself, which should be and is a good start but it’s not a bloody easy read! Ideally, you would find someone else with whom to co-audit. That was the whole objective of the book: to get people to apply the simple techniques to one another. Besides, it is fair to say that 50% of the gains to be made from the Scientology tech comes from the learning and the training. The other 50% comes from the processing (auditing). Another LRH book which would be useful, as a first step, is called Self-Analysis. As the title implies, it is auditing that one does to oneself. It basically helps to unlock your memories along with all the perceptics (visual, audio, smell, touch, etc.) and to dissipate any negative emotional energy connected with them. It might also help to revive some lost abilities...
And when you begin to experience some of the things that Jim is talking about, you’ll come to understand that there is much more to you than what I call the “exterior noise”. And at that point, your opinion changes as your reference point is different.

[psydney]

in the beginning it was a game ....but very often people will invalidate it ... I would try to sincerely try to show people that they could do these miracles ... there are many ... like moving my hand near someones toothache and suddenly the toothache disappears ... or when I knew cathy at the health food store she was rolling over in pain on the floor ... and we both tried to follow the rules of healing by auditing like don't mix practices ... but she is on the floor screaming .. so I asked her if it is ok if I can help her my way and she said ok .. I moved my hand near her side between ribs and hips and the pain just blew and she jerked a bit.
...
I haven't dropped that postulate .. but I don[t fight with weather anymore .. jim

yes we can do these things ... healers do it, i've healed a toothache, but not instantaneously, it took more time. come to think of it, i can remember a time that i influenced the weather ...

[Sidney]

ok so I have been reading the Dianetics book, skimming mainly because it is a lot. I have to be honest, it is putting me to sleep literally. I am coming into this with an open mind, because I will not deflect anything until i know what it is I am looking at. I am going to be honest, it seems kinda like brainwashing to me, almost kind of creepy, the whole repeating phrases over and over. Obviously I am a total dianetics illiterate. I get that. LOL
I also think that when you get into middle age, to start something like this, could literally take hundreds of hours, not to mention thousands of dollars.
I believe Jim stated something like , and I will paraphrase "if you read the Phoenix Lectures, you can be enlightened, (or maybe he said, you can change your whole life" something like that, anyway, I tried to find the post, I had asked ,for a beginner, if he could recommend one book, which would it be, and his answer was that, about the Phoenix lectures.
So (sorry for the long post),,, My questions.
1. is it possible to do this work without an auditor, or by self auditing. I am assuming no, because it seems very similar to hypnosis, where you are in an altered state of consciousness.
2. When done properly, I am sure it is safe, however it does seem, that there is no going into this type of practice without risk. Am I correct?
3. I found the material very technical (which I realize it is suppose to be), but very difficult to keep my attention on. Am I missing something, or is there a crash course available for middle aged people with short attention spans. :attention:
4. Ok I had a fourth question, but I forgot what it was. :rolleyes:

Just want to add, I mean no disrespect by this at all, as I do believe when done, and done correctly, can be very beneficial. But, OMG, it really seems like a tremendous about of time and energy (and money). Who has all that?

[turiya]

Jiminii said he is the viewpoint of Maitreya - how does one take that?
I cant' answer that for anyone but myself, and I would say with a grain of salt. If I were able to be face to face with Jim and get to know him much better I maybe could form an opinion. A far as I go is to understand that we can take on the view point of another, I have found myself in such a situation where momentarily I became the other. Other than that I am not sure.

Perhaps, this (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59041-LRH--L.-Ron-Hubbard-&p=677158&viewfull=1#post677158) can help... Something from Chris Thomas' writings

"...There is a new 'Meritrea', 'he' is contained within each and every one of us, the soul. We no longer need to look outside of ourselves to find the answers we need for our lives. They are already available, we just have to ask." -- Chris Thomas


turiya :cool:

[Hervé]

ok so I have been reading the Dianetics book, skimming mainly because it is a lot. I have to be honest, it is putting me to sleep literally.

[...]

You might want to have a look at this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?55117-The-Technological-Revolution-Artificial-Intelligence-and-the-Invisible-Plague&p=636410&viewfull=1#post636410://)<--- especially the third one... the reason why all scientology books have a warning about not going past a word the reader doesn't understand. The latter makes one yawn and feeling sleepy.

So, if you just skimmed through the book... you might have accumulated quite a number of those :)

One thing to remember, the language used in the Dianetics book was the current, common daily language in the 50s. Hence, if one finds it complicated or using Shakespeare's language... you know what to blame... US's "dumbing down" of its education level... so that one would need the MSM and "news" to do the "'splaining."

[enfoldedblue]

Hi Bill,

I will be honest I am approaching this with extreme caution. I have an open mind and am aware of how easily the baby can be thrown out with the bathwater. I understand the concept of 'clear' and feel that I have been doing a good job of working towards a similar goal. The approach I have taken however is much more organic and does not involve technology (and is not derived from anything related to the teachings of LRH). My teacher is the universe.

However, that being said I am very aware that there are many roads and do not automatically discount the one promoted by Hubbard. The problem I have however is that when I research Hubbard (the person who one would think would be in the best position to benefit from the effects of the technology)...I find endless evidence that suggest that what he practiced differed very greatly from what he preached. There are family members, and many who worked closely with him who suggest that rather than an archetype of balance and purity, he was instead psychologically disturbed.

What are your thoughts on this.

Thanks

[jiminii]

Jiminii said he is the viewpoint of Maitreya - how does one take that?
I cant' answer that for anyone but myself, and I would say with a grain of salt. If I were able to be face to face with Jim and get to know him much better I maybe could form an opinion. A far as I go is to understand that we can take on the view point of another, I have found myself in such a situation where momentarily I became the other. Other than that I am not sure.

Perhaps, this (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59041-LRH--L.-Ron-Hubbard-&p=677158&viewfull=1#post677158) can help... Something from Chris Thomas' writings

"...There is a new 'Meritrea', 'he' is contained within each and every one of us, the soul. We no longer need to look outside of ourselves to find the answers we need for our lives. They are already available, we just have to ask." -- Chris Thomas


turiya :cool:


I am not the viewpoint of LRH .. and I am not the viewpoint of Siddhartha Gautma Buddha ... though I ran all their pictures through my head. LRH took 3 days .. Siddhartha Gautame took only a minute or so
we have different memories and different timelines ... but we all come from the same spirit called metteyya ... that I know ... some say he was disturbed ... but I never saw that ... but I do have the viewpoint that he could have had some disturbances ... in the Sea Org especially Flag Service Org was very rough on me ,.. because they had all those infiltrators ... but I will tell you what happened ... I went outside the base and looked at the building and decided to handle all the counter intention .. I spotted this ... this .. and this .. some kind of something in the space ... and suddenly something entered my mind like saying "what do you want to do with that?" ... this time I thought " hit it " .. next day 3 people RPFed ..means rehabilitation project force .. which is where people who are destructive to the org are given a chance to change ... they do cleanup work on the buildings or something like it ... and get auditing everyday to remove this counter intention ..
ok I went out every night .. if I found 4 spots in space .. the next day 4 people are RPFed ..every time the exact number I spotted the night before ...more than 100 were RPFed then the space was clean ... I don't know who was in communication with me spiritually .that would do all the RPFing ... but I wrote of a letter to my OFO .. ORG Flag Officer ... we are given to tell them if we have any problems ..I said, "well the space is pretty clean ... Now we need to bring those people off the RPF because we are going over the hump ... and we will need them ..." in the next 3 or 4 days almost 90 % of about a hundred of them were coming out of the RPF and given a different post than the one they were destructive with ... I never heard this happen in the Sea Org before .. usually they would have to stay in the RPF until they were cleaned ... but that many coming all at once ???? I was surprised .. it seemed they were following my orders and I am just basically a very new recruit .... then I wrote a letter to LRH and it said, "Highest evers GI gross income this week " .. we got highest evers GI since 1979" ... now I can not see who is somehow communicating with me and they did my suggestion .. and it happened ... and so from their end ... I have no idea what was happening

because of these things and they never gave me auditing since 1971 ... I was really confused as to who I am and why they follow my suggestions...

the other things that happened there are this ,... 3 ethics officers came down to see me ... and said "jim we want you to write more letters "
i said. "why?" ... they said, "everyone you're writing to is coming in" ..
I said "why don't you get the others here writing too" .. (writing to people is something everyone is suppose to do but it is not my main job)
they said .."they don't write as good as you."
now is it my writing that is bringing them in .. are my intention ...

I have no idea what I am doing

then at night we are off work and they ask us to do volunteer work so I was sending out mail grams
they asked me to send out more mail grams
the same reason ... all the people are coming in ...

so I am not him
he is a different timeline and different personality than me ... and I have different ideas than he does ...

so please ... I am not a viewpoint of him.. I just went in to do my mission and see what came out of it ... I am more like an observer for those in the stars .. possibly from base 2

jim

[heysoulsister]

Is it a question that just shouldn't be asked? Is it a challenge to a claim or info given? Is it pointing out inconsistencies, discrepancies, or red flags, and asking how come? Is it an unconscious engram being restimulated, that simply needs to be audited? Is it wondering why the sudden avalanche of Scientology tech here, starting with the introduction of a previously unknown Scientology super hero? Is it wondering why we suddenly have to have a new leader figure to guide us young'uns out of the briar patch?


Hey Fred,

You know what really perplexes me?

Well, it´s the undeniable fact that such subject gained that much traction here based on huge, unverifiable and unfounded claims made by someone who believes to be the second coming of Jesus or something close to it.

This is really impressive; If there was an yearly gullibility award, PA would be a serious candidate to win it.

You know, after all those years keeping myself informed about what goes on in the Alternative Media, my conclusion is that people simply like to hear stories; the crazier the better. The more fantastical, nonsensical and unfounded a story is, the more traction and repercussion it gets in websites such as this one.

Next step is to set up a few interviews with Jim and make him the next alternative media celebrity of the month. He surely fits all requirements.

Come on folks...Are you serious? Perhaps this is just a social experiment and you forgot to warn me about it?

I´m sorry if I may sound disrespectful, but these things need to be said.

Raf.

I am also sorry and don't want to sound disrespectful, but(t) :p
Can we at the very least go back to one of the most interesting and the most read Threads on this forum - the Horus Ra Thread... as a point of reference.
If there is one thing most of us can kind of agree on it is that these entities(and there are many), rituals and beliefs exsist.

If "jim" is clear then I am glad I am not "that kind of clear", he has no idea WHO he IS!
(Respectfully and with love and kindness I appreciate what you are going through, I mean you no disrespect whatsoever. )
Hoping in the body of Jesus, called himself possible the Marietta, a Budha like being, etc even Hubbard then not Hubbard because he then decieded Hubbard had it in for him etc - and then often states he just does. not. know.
Come on!! We as a community should be able to rise above this "test"
This is one big ass entity with a puppet on a string MHO

Bill I ask you - Do you think there could be one seriously intelligent and coniving entity at play here and part of the play could be a "hook" to Inella and your attachment to her and also this forum?
I am not blaming you nor accusing you, just stating a possibility...
I can tell you these things are as squirrely as all get out these days :wacko:
There is something here that feels completely off! :(
No need to warn me for my caution (negativity) I am taking a self imposed break, in the hope that this blows over.

[WEAREONE]

. and said "jim we want you to write more letters "
i said. "why?" ... they said, "everyone you're writing to is coming in" ..
I said "why don't you get the others here writing too" .. (writing to people is something everyone is suppose to do but it is not my main job)
they said .."they don't write as good as you."
now is it my writing that is bringing them in .. are my intention .


Thats a good one.;););););)

On a more serious note,,any ideas why this topic generates so much anger. Is it fear as yoda once said

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

[turiya]

On a more serious note,,any ideas why this topic generates so much anger. Is it fear as yoda once said


Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”It is unimaginable... how this drastic step was taken by people who had all the good intentions in the world... you may not have suspected, even... What has destroyed Love?

It is the continuous teaching of Love that has destroyed it...
Hate is still pure... Love is not. When you hate, your hate has an authenticity. And when you love, it is only hypocrisy.

This has to be understood:
For thousands of years, all the religions, politicians, pedagogues, etc., have been teaching one thing... and, that one thing is 'Love'.
Love your enemy... Love your neighbor... Love your parents... Love god...
Why in the beginning, they started this strange series of teachings about Love?

They were afraid of your "authentic" Love... because the "authentic" Love" is beyond your control. Your are possessed by it, you are not the possessor, you are the possessed. And, every society wants to be in control. The society is afraid of your wild nature. It is afraid of your natural-ness.

So, from the beginning it starts cutting your wings. And the most basic thing, which is dangerous in you, is the possibility of Love. Because, if you are possessed by Love, you can go, even, against the whole world. -- Osho
SOURCE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-7JSIDgcLk)

[Prodigal Son]

Jiminii said he is the viewpoint of Maitreya - how does one take that?
I cant' answer that for anyone but myself, and I would say with a grain of salt. If I were able to be face to face with Jim and get to know him much better I maybe could form an opinion. A far as I go is to understand that we can take on the view point of another, I have found myself in such a situation where momentarily I became the other. Other than that I am not sure.

Perhaps, this (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59041-LRH--L.-Ron-Hubbard-&p=677158&viewfull=1#post677158) can help... Something from Chris Thomas' writings

"...There is a new 'Meritrea', 'he' is contained within each and every one of us, the soul. We no longer need to look outside of ourselves to find the answers we need for our lives. They are already available, we just have to ask." -- Chris Thomas


turiya :cool:

When I was taking Gnostic Kabbalah courses the instructors were always admonishing and warning us that when we start making headway into the higher realms with our practice and meditation that we can easily be fooled by our egos... thinking that we "are" some famous figure from the past when we are really just tapping into the Oneness.... and something that really stuck in my mind... that even Masters can be and were often misled by their perceptions.

Jesus would say in his prayers that he and his disciples and the Father were all One. A lot of people become incredulous at the idea of reincarnation when people start making claims that they were Napoleon, Nostradamus, or Cleopatra. They may have all kinds of memories of those people's lives but the fact of the matter is that everything is recorded in the Akashic Record and we are merely tapping into it. So if jim says he is the viewpoint of Matteya or someone else says they were Jesus Christ, they may very well be right. We are all one and whatever we record in the Book of Life becomes public record for those who can access it.

[turiya]

When I was taking Gnostic Kabbalah courses the instructors were always admonishing and warning us that when we start making headway into the higher realms with our practice and meditation that we can easily be fooled by our egos... thinking that we "are" some famous figure from the past when we are really just tapping into the Oneness.... and something that really stuck in my mind... that even Masters can be and were often misled by their perceptions.

Jesus would say in his prayers that he and his disciples and the Father were all One. A lot of people become incredulous at the idea of reincarnation when people start making claims that they were Napoleon, Nostradamus, or Cleopatra. They may have all kinds of memories of those people's lives but the fact of the matter is that everything is recorded in the Akashic Record and we are merely tapping into it. So if jim says he is the viewpoint of Matteya or someone else says they were Jesus Christ, they may very well be right. We are all one and whatever we record in the Book of Life becomes public record for those who can access it.

I have heard that this is precisely why they cut off the hands & head of the Sufi mystic, Mansoor Al-Hallaj...


Mansoor Al-Hallaj was condemned to hang by the neck for shouting in ecstasy Anal-Haq, Anal-Haq (I am the Truth, I am the Truth). The orthodoxy understood this to mean that he was claiming to be God himself, whereas he had proclaimed in his sublime spiritual ecstasy, simply a total annihilation of himself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_Haq

turiya :cool:

[jiminii]

Perhaps, this (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59041-LRH--L.-Ron-Hubbard-&p=677158&viewfull=1#post677158) can help... Something from Chris Thomas' writings

"...There is a new 'Meritrea', 'he' is contained within each and every one of us, the soul. We no longer need to look outside of ourselves to find the answers we need for our lives. They are already available, we just have to ask." -- Chris Thomas

turiya :cool:

I am not the viewpoint of LRH .. and I am not the viewpoint of Siddhartha Gautma Buddha ... though I ran all their pictures through my head. LRH took 3 days .. Siddhartha Gautame took only a minute or so
we have different memories and different timelines ... but we all come from the same spirit called metteyya ... that I know ...
...

oh sorry ... I didn't read it right .. I thought you said i was a viewpoint of LRH ... .. I read it wrong
yes I am a viewpoint of metteyya ... but there is about a million star children here too .. they are viewpoints of Metteyya too
then there is gaia ,.. there might be another million from gaia ... like inelia
and I don't know the other big spirits that are doing this together

jim

[turiya]

oh sorry ... I didn't read it right ..

Not a problem, jiminii, I am still trying to successfully work with this forums' format, as well. It was 'my bad'. I misplaced the quotation brackets which led to your confusion on what was being conveyed. ... am getting better with this, though ;)

cheers - turiya :cool:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~edit~~~~~~~~~~~~~
p.s. thanks Paul

[ThePythonicCow]

oh sorry ... I didn't read it right ..

Not a problem, jiminii, I am still trying to successfully work with this forums' format, as well. It was 'my bad'. I misplaced the quotation brackets which led to your confusion on what was being conveyed. ... am getting better with this, though ;)

cheers - turiya :cool:

Don't feel bad - I had added some additional mistakes in my earlier efforts to fix up some QUOTE'ing in the above posts.

Hopefully it's better now.

[donk]

.

On a more serious note,,any ideas why this topic generates so much anger. Is it fear as yoda once said

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

The anger on the anti- side comes from the abuse and bastardization of the institution...it's like the feelings someone would might have at the organization that is Catholicism--and then associating all of Christianity with it, then worse--attributing Jesus teaching to "Catholic"...where people will focus on a few key abuser individuals and associate the whole thing. Problem with scientology though, is L R Hubbard--the founder is often accused of being that key individual. I think Bill is trying to seperate all of that with this thread?

I'm interested in the passion it generates on the not anti- side...the fans get very defensive (not you Bill ;) you are very level headed. I see intense attachment to the materials and ideas.

[gripreaper]

When I was taking Gnostic Kabbalah courses the instructors were always admonishing and warning us that when we start making headway into the higher realms with our practice and meditation that we can easily be fooled by our egos... thinking that we "are" some famous figure from the past when we are really just tapping into the Oneness.... and something that really stuck in my mind... that even Masters can be and were often misled by their perceptions.

Jesus would say in his prayers that he and his disciples and the Father were all One. A lot of people become incredulous at the idea of reincarnation when people start making claims that they were Napoleon, Nostradamus, or Cleopatra. They may have all kinds of memories of those people's lives but the fact of the matter is that everything is recorded in the Akashic Record and we are merely tapping into it. So if jim says he is the viewpoint of Matteya or someone else says they were Jesus Christ, they may very well be right. We are all one and whatever we record in the Book of Life becomes public record for those who can access it.

Another way of saying this would be: We are part of the refracted soul stream of the first cause, descended into more fractals and more density as more individuation occurred. So the actual physical entity during the earlier point of decension and evolution, WAS a group of us soul sparks who have subsequently refracted into additional souls..

We will also, according to the collective dream, merge and ascend back into the oneness. The difference is, we will retain our individual consciousness while still being "the one"

So, when someone says: Oh, I'm the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce, what they mean is they are part of that soul stream.

[Carmody]

Am I missing something, or is there a crash course available for middle aged people with short attention spans. :attention:

Just want to add, I mean no disrespect by this at all, as I do believe when done, and done correctly, can be very beneficial. But, OMG, it really seems like a tremendous about of time and energy (and money). Who has all that?

Dianetics ~IS~ the short course, the Crash Course, the abridged short version. The notes version.

From reading up to chapter two so far, it appears as if it is intended as a method of getting clear enough to see how clouded you actually are, so you can endeavor to do the rest of it yourself.

It IS possible to climb out of that sort of hole on one's own, as that Is what I did. According to the short bit I've read so far, I'd be a 'clear'.

I'd have to finish the whole book to see where it goes, and I will do so. My first inclination is to put a footnote after almost every single paragraph to explain the real meaning of what he is saying, due to the given terms used... 'items' which Ron seems to have altered or come to his own labeling and expression thereof.

There's nothing wrong with that sort of way of doing things, but one must be careful to not take the bits alternate labelling or different expression and make it the groundwork for further extrapolation, unless some sort of re-centering takes place along the way. If not, things will end up way off course.

[Carmody]

to add..IF Ron has (and appears to have) come up with a shorthand for the old and time honored act of alchemical clearing of the self, then more power to him.

When delving into Dianetics, the real unaltered dianetics, as stated..from my short reading so far, I'd say it appears to be fine, but to be aware when applying it that it remains a shorthand, a speed reading course. Which can be, and generally is.... immensely beneficial.

The alchemists, the Buddhists and so on, they came up with their methods, not because they are slow, or foolish, or too rigorous, too cautious or any other connotation. They came up with their methods and ways as it takes time for neural paths to rearrange themselves to a beneficial, or corrected state.

The benefit with dianetics is that it can reach many people quickly. The danger is that..not being as rigorous in the fundamentals as it might be..that it can be taken off course by nefarious means. Means external to the self.

Which is why the ever ambitious 'they' don't want you to have it ....and the same 'they' have taken it over and polluted it, bastardized it into a tool for their use. Both within the group that now exists and outside of it, with connection to black programs and the like.

[Finefeather]

Thought this might shed some light...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvfioivtY6c

[Swanette]

Thought this might shed some light...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvfioivtY6c

Thank you for posting this FineFeather: For those who have watched and listened to ALL of this video here will have a much better understanding of what Jiminii and Bill Ryan is trying to explain. IMHO :) Although it might be a little hard for some people to understand.

Yes, hopefully it will shed some light .... ;)

[Bill Ryan]

Hello Bill,

I very much appreciate your sharing with us for whom this is quite new - and years after the Dan Tops interview - something of your deep understanding of how the original scientology works

To improve some aspect of my life I have often used a method or product recommended by some (hopefully genuine) expert to move beyond it. But it has soon become obvious that it wasn't going to work or perhaps I'd just hear the words: "It'll work for others, but not for you".

The main theme of the other programme seems to be that, no matter how successful, competent, caring (or whatever) I at first seem to be in some new situation, I'll bugger it all up and prove that I'm just another of the 'sheeple'. As an example, I was allowed to do quite well in my French studies, but not long after I started teaching I had lost control in the classroom and so proved to people (again) that I was a failure in life.

Despite my having over the last 15-20 years made use of numbers of different therapies and therapists, including a lot of NLP, none of them really worked for me.

Actually, the only tools to have ever produced lots of pleasant changes in my life are those offered by Pleiadians Plus (Barbara Marciniak), that I've been using for some 18 months. I also still use a couple of techniques from James.

En passant, it's taken me close on two hours to put together these few sentences.. But I don't give up easily - so a question or two for you, Bill.

As I too want auditing to "cut through my life junk like a knife through butter", would I be wise in arranging for a more experienced auditor through the Ron's Org at Bristol rather than via the (apparently) new Org at Milton Keynes. I live in central west London (Kensington-NottingHill)? Or is there someone competent in London itself? Or just choose anyone they suggest?

Sincerely,

Stephen


Stephen, thank you so much for your very wonderful post. My apologies to you for being later in reply than I would have wished.

Yes, there are a couple of auditors closer to London than Bristol, though I don't know them personally at all. One of them, who I'm told is a Ron's Org auditor, is indeed in Milton Keynes.

I have asked a friend who knows them for the contact details, and I will certainly pass them on. My earlier recommendation of Clive Nicol in Bristol was solely because I know him. I didn't even know the others were there until yesterday!

My warmest regards to you -- Bill

[Bill Ryan]

My 5 cents ... I have noticed that the Scientology theme has basically took over the topics here on project avalon ... Perhaps, it is the old divide-conquest tactics being played so we put our efforts on discussing it, I am not saying it is not worth to discuss it but as I learned so far reading all the posts, isn`t there a third party on this subject that want us all loose our focus on other current issues ? Anyway, not judging but just questioning.
Peace to all.

I wrote this today as part of a private message to Raf (RMorgan), who lives in Brazil:



I certainly do not want to make the forum all about Jim (or Hubbard). We have to keep the balance. I'm totally aware of it. As soon as there's another false flag event in the US, or a real missile threat from North Korea, or the dollar suddenly collapses to nothing, or Obama announces he's gay, or a meteor hits the Christ the Redeemer statue in Rio -- then the focus will change again.

:)

[dpwishy]

I consider my self more of a bystander at this forum, I have read for years but I prefer to stay in the background and hardly ever post. I find it very difficult to share idea's openly with people claiming to be the most open minded, and I don't just mean people here, I find this is a common trait among evolved beings everywhere. As they evolve and walk THEIR path, they think that their way is the only way and that is it. I claim this to be the death of intelligence. Once you claim you know or understand, that is a clear indication that you surely do not. That is the only thing I can say for certain. The funny thing is, you will never be called out by people that understand this. You will always be called out by those with a belief system, no matter what the B.S (belief system) is.

I see a lot of negativity through out many threads here towards this matter, I find it almost comical. People fail to forget that we all have a perspective of the "same thing". How you describe it, honor it, get there, is all going to be personal. Look at the 4 gospels, all saw the same thing yet are completely different. If I asked us all to watch the same movie and to write a paper about it, every single one would be different. We watched the same movie didn't we? And taking it even further, you would know right away readings another paper if they really saw the movie or are just making it up. It might be completely different in how its written, but you would know right away that it was written by someone who watched the movie. Given that you watched the movie also.....

For all those negative comments, the only thing that has stood out to me this whole time was. This man, L Ron, he watched the movie. It is beyond clear to anyone else who has watched the movie. And it is so close to disciplines that those who are attacking probably embrace and don't even realize! I was absolutely blown away with how much this had in common with Buddhism and the teachings of the Buddha. It was the same concepts and teachings with different words. And I am not talking watered down Buddhism, but from the original teachings.

The Buddha taught in Pali, it is now a dead language. He taught a method of meditation called Vipassana. In pali the word basically means "as things are". It is the method he used to gain liberation. In this method we do not vocalize or visualize, we observe the body as it is, not as we want it to be. What is amazing about this method is that it does not matter who you are, how much money you were born with, what shape you are in, your age, faith, creed and so. It uses sensation in the body and the breath. This is something we all have. It doesn't matter what your faith is, you can still practice vapassana. You have a body and can feel it.

The great realization of the Buddha was HOW to break free. He realized that we are stuck here because we form likes and dislikes about experiences. We have aversion and negativity for things we don't like and cling and crave for the positive things. Our soul is an accumulation of these, they are called saṅkhāra's in Pali. We are forming saṅkhāra's with almost every thought at this point, our minds have spiraled out of control and its getting to the point where we are saṅkhāra creating mashines. This makes us denser and denser.

He gave a way to live and adhere by because if you lived by that way. If would be very easy to maintain a life where you are not creating new saṅkhāra's. If you are creating new saṅkhāra's, then the old ones can not come to the surface to be processed. You have a kagillion just in this life, let alone the accumulation of all your lives saṅkhāra's.

The bhudda understood the mind and body connection and realized that if you stop creating saṅkhāra's and sat in meditation the old saṅkhāra's will start to come to the surface one by one. If we can sit there and let them arise so they can just pass away, we can process through these and clear them one by one. When we cleared out all of our saṅkhāra's, we were a liberated soul. It can take many life times to process through all of these. Some saṅkhāra's might take a second to process, others might takes years to fully let go of in meditation.

During vipassana meditations you do not move or change hand positions for the full sitting. I sit for an hour at a time. Once you sit and choose your position, it must be kept fully for the full sitting. At first this seems insane and impossible but this is where the teaching of the Buddha is so special. He taught us that these sensations in the body are not really pain, they are saṅkhāra's rising to the surface. This becomes clear to someone who uses vipassana regularly. At first you think that the sensation in your back or your leg is from how you are sitting. Seems logical. But if you sit and do not move, the sensation will leave and go to another spot completely. If it was because of how you were sitting, why did it change if you didn't move? As you progress these sensations will no longer be just feelings in your body, they will be accompanied by memories and experiences.

By letting these sensations come to the surface and not react, only experience them, we can let them rise and pass away. Thus processing through our stored database of saṅkhāra's. These might be things we formed many lives ago, or 5 minutes ago when we said "oh i wish I had some pie". Even the bliss in meditation is a trap. If the hour meditation is over and you dont get up because you are in the bliss, you are just creating saṅkhāra's on the positive spectrum. As you are clinging and craving for the experience of bliss. Same for the opposite. If your back is hurting and when the hour meditation ends you jump up as fast as you can, you have adversion and negativity for the experiene. You are creating saṅkhāra's but on the negative end. It is important to be able to experience without attachment.

To me, what the Buddha taught, what I just explained, is exactly what L ron is saying and teaching but in a slightly different way and terms. Instead of self auditing that is done with vipassana, it is done with a partner in Scientology. This whole experience lately learning about what L ron really taught has opened my eyes. I was completely blown away. Here is a man who I completely blew off and thought was insane, yet teaches a method and discipline that is almost identical to the one I practiced. That I bet a lot who bash Scientology practice and don't even realize they are practicing the same art just taught by two different teachers who had two different perspectives of the same thing. How silly. I was just misinformed. I can see why this method of processing would be effective in a western culture. Each discipline is catering to its audience respectively to give the best results. We always point fingers at things that are different yet fail to realize that at the core, it was actually the same thing. How human of us, where there is one, were bound to divide it right in two.....

[Bill Ryan]

1. is it possible to do this work without an auditor, or by self auditing. I am assuming no, because it seems very similar to hypnosis, where you are in an altered state of consciousness.

Yes, but only after a certain stage. This is called 'solo auditing' See my post here (#3 on p.1 of this thread):

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-Ron-s-Org-Planet-Earth.-Jim-and-the-Future&p=676227&viewfull=1#post676227


2. When done properly, I am sure it is safe, however it does seem, that there is no going into this type of practice without risk. Am I correct?I'd have to say: theoretically, yes. But I've been doing this in the Free Zone for 29 years, and have never run into any 'risk' such as has been experienced by those in the 'Church'. Sometimes a minor mistake can be made by the auditor (like continuing a process for two long, or missing a 'read' in the meter, but Hubbard also developed a whole slew of sophisticated repair protocols and techniques, and slips like this are easily and rapidly addressed and mended completely.

As one gains in experience as a client, one increasingly works as a team with the auditor. That means that one can immediately say: "Hey, it feels like you may have missed something." In the 'Church', an auditor might tell you to shut up, but in the Free Zone the auditor will immediately stop what he or she is doing and ask you to elaborate on what you think might be awry. In my experience, that teamwork is of great importance. One is not just at the effect of another person's whims. It's a real collaborative effort.


3. I found the material very technical (which I realize it is suppose to be), but very difficult to keep my attention on. Am I missing something, or is there a crash course available for middle aged people with short attention spans. As Amzer Zo correctly said (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-Ron-s-Org-Planet-Earth.-Jim-and-the-Future&p=677171&viewfull=1#post677171), you may have skipped over words or terms which were not fully understood. That does tend to put one to sleep! (Really. Try studying quantum physics if you have no idea what the words mean.)


Just want to add, I mean no disrespect by this at all, as I do believe when done, and done correctly, can be very beneficial. But, OMG, it really seems like a tremendous about of time and energy (and money). Who has all that?Yes, it takes time, energy and commitment. But so does Buddhism: ask any lama.

The thing that puts all this into perspective for me is this:

How astonishing is it that one can clean up the unfinished business from literally millions of lifetimes or longer -- a benefit which one retains to take forward as an investment into one's next lifetime -- in just a few years? (Whether a 'few' years is 2, 5, 10, or 20 -- may not matter. It's just a click-of-the-fingers moment in all of one's eternal existence as a being.

* PS (a personal note): see my post above (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-Ron-s-Org-Planet-Earth.-Jim-and-the-Future&p=677482&viewfull=1#post677482) (#112) in response to Stephen about auditors in London.

[Tangri]

My 5 cents ... I have noticed that the Scientology theme has basically took over the topics here on project avalon ... Perhaps, it is the old divide-conquest tactics being played so we put our efforts on discussing it, I am not saying it is not worth to discuss it but as I learned so far reading all the posts, isn`t there a third party on this subject that want us all loose our focus on other current issues ? Anyway, not judging but just questioning.
Peace to all.

I wrote this today as part of a private message to Raf (RMorgan), who lives in Brazil:



I certainly do not want to make the forum all about Jim (or Hubbard). We have to keep the balance. I'm totally aware of it. As soon as there's another false flag event in the US, or a real missile threat from North Korea, or the dollar suddenly collapses to nothing, or Obama announces he's gay, or a meteor hits the Christ the Redeemer statue in Rio -- then the focus will change again.

:)


Obama announces he's gay, or a meteor hits the Christ the Redeemer statue in Rio -- then the focus will change again.

You forgot the mention Last sunday of the 13th month or when chicken give birth a cat options huh? He hehehe

[Bill Ryan]

Hi Bill,

I will be honest I am approaching this with extreme caution. I have an open mind and am aware of how easily the baby can be thrown out with the bathwater. I understand the concept of 'clear' and feel that I have been doing a good job of working towards a similar goal. The approach I have taken however is much more organic and does not involve technology (and is not derived from anything related to the teachings of LRH). My teacher is the universe.

However, that being said I am very aware that there are many roads and do not automatically discount the one promoted by Hubbard. The problem I have however is that when I research Hubbard (the person who one would think would be in the best position to benefit from the effects of the technology)...I find endless evidence that suggest that what he practiced differed very greatly from what he preached. There are family members, and many who worked closely with him who suggest that rather than an archetype of balance and purity, he was instead psychologically disturbed.

What are your thoughts on this.

Thanks

Yes, Hubbard himself was clearly not a perfect human being. He had extraordinary positive qualities: determination, creativity, brilliant insight, extraordinary perception, energy, inspiration, leadership, organization, even genius. But he was also very stubborn, egotistical, and controlling.

This is not denied by anyone. The same might be said of most CEOs of major organizations -- which is what the 'Church' became, even before it was taken over.

Here are some mitigating factors which I invite anyone to consider. In proposing these, my stance is still totally that most great men (and women) are flawed, sometimes in direct proportion to the battle which they feel they're fighting in every moment of their lives.

We know that Hubbard was attacked in every which way by the authorities from the moment they judged he was a threat. (This is why the therapy was founded as a 'Church' -- for legal protection. Scientology was never a religion.)

Diana Hubbard, his daughter, stated on record that the first manuscript of her father's 1950 book (which he wrote in six weeks flat), Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental Health, was stolen by the Russians. And... has anyone reading this ever been affected by psychic attacks? One might speculate on what Hubbard was enduring all those years -- all the time researching how to combat these same phenomena.

I am a very minor public figure indeed, and yet I've been through the mill backwards, upside down, inside out and sideways. I've been attacked, discredited, smeared, pilloried, misquoted, misrepresented, disappointed, stolen from, irradiated, let down, lied to, and psychically affected in numerous ways, including several times having experienced beings trying to attack me in my dreams and sleep.

And I'm not the only one, by any means. Sometimes this kinda gets to you (seriously: it really does); and one might forgive someone trying to do a good job which is not in the interests of the ruling elite, who occasionally snaps and does not operate at his or her finest... or (beyond that) might end up making some bad or unwise decisions.

For these reasons, I look at his work, and that I regard as the real measure of the man.

[Tangri]

I know you secret admire of LRD Bill, mostly because of the his tech,/tools. It would be a disaster if only you started this subject, luckily Jim showed up.

I received 220 in patient, 600 out patient mental Institution's statistic for last week in my request.

-50 people in treatment patients claim they are hearing voices from Andromeda and Zeticuli galaxy 14 of them claiming they are the Mehdi( (Mesaya).

- 26 of them carry a Gene which provides supernatural power.

-10 of them in suicidal watch because of the their self exorcism.

-72 of them tried exorcism on their family member

-3 of them tried exorcism on random people .

Interesting part is out patient category :

32 of them was forensic requested for legal Incompetence 27 of them were found competent which leads them to the judicial system for abusing naive people for financial gain. This is only one week admission you guess the rest.;)

[Bill Ryan]

-------

To Tangri (above):

So ..


Simon Parkes (who claims he's been abducted countless times) should be in a psych ward.
Anyone who tries to help another person who says they're affected by negative entities is insane.
Anyone who is driven to attempted suicide should be under psychiatric medication.
Supernatural powers do not exist and are a delusion.


Right? :)

[Tangri]

-------

To Tangri (above):

So ..


Simon Parkes (who claims he's been abducted countless times) should be in a psych ward.
Anyone who tries to help another person who says they're affected by negative entities is insane.
Anyone who is driven to attempted suicide should be under psychiatric medication.
Supernatural powers do not exist and are a delusion.


Right? :)

Isn't that number is high for 2,5 million city population (Izmir- Turkey) population.
for surrender? If they were mistakenly (worths with black opp) taken in, then humanity is in real danger, even doomed we lost almost all rescue team :o

your 3rd Q's answer is definitely Yes. First they must be taken an observation(auditing) then medical support.
Supernatural power might be exist but on the other hand delusion is definitely exist.
If you want to find about delusion this can help you

Greyhound killer believed man he beheaded was an alien

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2012/05/22/mb-vince-li-schizophrenia-interview-manitoba.html

It must be observed for clear distinction , in knowledge,/information pollution by experienced eyes.

[Sidney]

I know you secret admire of LRD Bill, mostly because of the his tech,/tools. It would be a disaster if only you started this subject, luckily Jim showed up.

I received 220 in patient, 600 out patient mental Institution's statistic for last week in my request.

-50 people in treatment patients claim they are hearing voices from Andromeda and Zeticuli galaxy 14 of them claiming they are the Mehdi( (Mesaya).

- 26 of them carry a Gene which provides supernatural power.

-10 of them in suicidal watch because of the their self exorcism.

-72 of them tried exorcism on their family member

-3 of them tried exorcism on random people .

Interesting part is out patient category :

32 of them was forensic requested for legal Incompetence 27 of them were found competent which leads them to the judicial system for abusing naive people for financial gain. This is only one week admission you guess the rest.;)

I have always wondered exactly what percentage of "delusional" people, actually experienced something more than their own mind.

[bram]

To me, what the Buddha taught, what I just explained, is exactly what L ron is saying and teaching but in a slightly different way and terms. Instead of self auditing that is done with vipassana, it is done with a partner in Scientology. This whole experience lately learning about what L ron really taught has opened my eyes. I was completely blown away. Here is a man who I completely blew off and thought was insane, yet teaches a method and discipline that is almost identical to the one I practiced. That I bet a lot who bash Scientology practice and don't even realize they are practicing the same art just taught by two different teachers who had two different perspectives of the same thing. How silly. I was just misinformed. I can see why this method of processing would be effective in a western culture. Each discipline is catering to its audience respectively to give the best results. We always point fingers at things that are different yet fail to realize that at the core, it was actually the same thing. How human of us, where there is one, were bound to divide it right in two.....

I couldn't agree more!! I am still working thru the book though, and I have a few things I want to raise when I have finished.... also this handbook on self-clearing, which is next on my reading list http://freezoneearth.org/pilot/self/index.html.

It seems to me that the closer you get to truth, the more it converges from different sources..

Love, bram

[jiminii]

Hi Bill,

I will be honest I am approaching this with extreme caution. I have an open mind and am aware of how easily the baby can be thrown out with the bathwater. I understand the concept of 'clear' and feel that I have been doing a good job of working towards a similar goal. The approach I have taken however is much more organic and does not involve technology (and is not derived from anything related to the teachings of LRH). My teacher is the universe.

However, that being said I am very aware that there are many roads and do not automatically discount the one promoted by Hubbard. The problem I have however is that when I research Hubbard (the person who one would think would be in the best position to benefit from the effects of the technology)...I find endless evidence that suggest that what he practiced differed very greatly from what he preached. There are family members, and many who worked closely with him who suggest that rather than an archetype of balance and purity, he was instead psychologically disturbed.

What are your thoughts on this.

Thanks

Yes, Hubbard himself was clearly not a perfect human being. He had extraordinary positive qualities: determination, creativity, brilliant insight, extraordinary perception, energy, inspiration, leadership, organization, even genius. But he was also very stubborn, egotistical, and controlling.

This is not denied by anyone. The same might be said of most CEOs of major organizations -- which is what the 'Church' became, even before it was taken over.

Here are some mitigating factors which I invite anyone to consider. In proposing these, my stance is still totally that most great men (and women) are flawed, sometimes in direct proportion to the battle which they feel they're fighting in every moment of their lives.

We know that Hubbard was attacked in every which way by the authorities from the moment they judged he was a threat. (This is why the therapy was founded as a 'Church' -- for legal protection. Scientology was never a religion.)

Diana Hubbard, his daughter, stated on record that the first manuscript of her father's 1950 book (which he wrote in six weeks flat), Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental Health, was stolen by the Russians. And... has anyone reading this ever been affected by psychic attacks? One might speculate on what Hubbard was enduring all those years -- all the time researching how to combat these same phenomena.

I am a very minor public figure indeed, and yet I've been through the mill backwards, upside down, inside out and sideways. I've been attacked, discredited, smeared, pilloried, misquoted, misrepresented, disappointed, stolen from, irradiated, let down, lied to, and psychically affected in numerous ways, including several times having experienced beings trying to attack me in my dreams and sleep.

And I'm not the only one, by any means. Sometimes this kinda gets to you (seriously: it really does); and one might forgive someone trying to do a good job which is not in the interests of the ruling elite, who occasionally snaps and does not operate at his or her finest... or (beyond that) might end up making some bad or unwise decisions.

For these reasons, I look at his work, and that I regard as the real measure of the man.

thanks bill

in the last few days I have experience auditing coming from somewhere ... and now ... the buttons are flat .. means ... I don't get bothered by what people say to me on this site ... also can not feel any psychic attacks ... amazing ... space is really opening up and I feel great ... I can take it all on now ,... thanks for helping me to get this stuff out of me ... it is lining up much better ,... we don't need a pole shift ... we can keep everything safe the way it is ... we can just put a spiritual umbrella around the planet and decide nothing harmful enters our earths including satellites , space ,,, like solar flares ... and we can decide the weather is normal world wide and HAARP can not effect anything any more .. decide anything harmful in the environment will not touch earth will be taken to safe locations like deserts and oceans we can do it all ... so whatever they dump will stay up there and pass by any populations .. all of this can be done just like we created this Universe together ,.. anything can be decided and done ... collectively we can't lose
and decide all of us are in a safe space and decide the entire area around planet is a safe space ... when they can't make any more of their effects anymore they would probably go completely nuts


jim

[jp11]

jim,

glad to read your latest post and pleased that you
don't get bothered by what people say to me on this site
What has been written by you and others has given me a new challenge to get back in the game to have this earth be the place that supports the highest and greatest good of all.
jp :)

[gripreaper]

The bhudda understood the mind and body connection and realized that if you stop creating saṅkhāra's and sat in meditation the old saṅkhāra's will start to come to the surface one by one. If we can sit there and let them arise so they can just pass away, we can process through these and clear them one by one. When we cleared out all of our saṅkhāra's, we were a liberated soul. It can take many life times to process through all of these. Some saṅkhāra's might take a second to process, others might takes years to fully let go of in meditation.

It is also my understanding, that saṅkhāra's, also known as beliefs, can get grooved if we reinforce them for many lifetimes. The soul will then offer up lifetimes to "break" the illusion. If we base our world view that we are creators, and that everything which happens to us is "our choice" based on our accumulative experience and beliefs, and lose the "victim" mentality, we can then understand why one might choose, on a soul level, to live in abject poverty in a war zone. This vibrates the survival chakra very deeply and continuously, to fully imbed the resonance in that soul's DNA and attempt to shift the belief.

That's a very "slow" way to evolve. Some have postulated, that the average person barely integrates maybe 1-2% in just one chakra in a lifetime, which means it could take millions of lifetimes to reach an embodied soul, able to hold the full spectrum of light within a body, without exploding. Those who occasionally have peak energy surges which vibrate their upper chakras for a brief moment, who then return to their resting homeostasis, will interpret these as being "special", when in fact, they are not.

So, the idea of accelerating the "clearing" out of old beliefs, karma, stuck and sequestered energy in our chakras, opening up to more energy, more insights, more depth, tone, timbre, and texture, is intriguing to those who are already doing such clearing. So many alternative healing modalities, spiritual paths, and ancient alchemical processes have been doing this, and are tools just like Scientology is. Which trail you take to the top of the mountain is immaterial, as is how fast you want to travel. Any traveler who goes up the mountain will reach the apex, no matter which trail they take. It's a personal choice, and take as long as you want. Linear time is an illusion anyway.

I spent 6 years in Primal Therapy, a modality which Dane Tops would say was a spin off of L. Ron Hubbard's discoveries. The Primal Scream was a runaway best seller in the early 70'a and John Lennon had a stint where he did Primal Therapy. Arthur Janov was just such a genius, like L.Ron Hubbard was, but he too had his quirks. I can say, Primal Therapy was not "scream" therapy, as it was portrayed in the media.

It basically brought the person back to the early childhood scene where the energetic charge of the experience was too overwhelming and painful to experience. This causes an energetic sequestration and a permanent disconnect, leaving parts of the self inaccessible, as a matter of survival. Early infant and childhood trauma imbeds in the viscera and the cells, the very core brainstem of our bodies.

The process idea is to "relive" the catalytic event with it's full charge value, known as "catharsis" and discharge the energy, reconnecting the old hidden and sequestered energy back into wholeness, along with the subsequent disappearance of all the belief structures which supported it, with the brain synapses actually rewiring, hormone levels shifting, even how one's face loses the contortions from the pain.

It's quite extraordinary actually. It's more the resistance to the catharsis which is painful, rather than the actual catharsis itself. Once you have had such a "clearing", and the world looks so much more colorful, you do want the full monte and cant wait to do the work. Very few are willing to cross the pain barrier because the resistance, right at the point of the electrical charge being strong enough to render the session to "click" into the memory with the full body, mind, and soul involved, is huge.

We are also taught to avoid pain and embrace pleasure. Whole movements have sprung up as offshoots of the clearing process (the Secret, Landmark Forum, etc.) and focus on attaining that which you "want", yet anything acquired in duality brings BOTH polarities. You get the good stuff, but you get the bad stuff too. How to create from the heart, and through the heart, is the actual alchemy taught down through the ages. The Essenes knew this, as did the Druids, and the Tibetian Monks. These were the ancients who preserved the original teachings from Atlantis.

So, there is nothing new under the sun. All that you want or need is recorded within you, in your very DNA, resides in your chakras, either as free flowing energy, of blocked energy. It is good to have a supportive person to sit with you when you are triggered, if even just to listen and not try to FIX it! That is what psychotherapy is for, to modify your behavior so that you function properly as a good slave for the elite's machine. If you feel safe, and are with someone with a heart, anyone can clear their crap.

[Sidney]

ok so I have been reading the Dianetics book, skimming mainly because it is a lot. I have to be honest, it is putting me to sleep literally.

[...]

You might want to have a look at this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?55117-The-Technological-Revolution-Artificial-Intelligence-and-the-Invisible-Plague&p=636410&viewfull=1#post636410://)<--- especially the third one... the reason why all scientology books have a warning about not going past a word the reader doesn't understand. The latter makes one yawn and feeling sleepy.

So, if you just skimmed through the book... you might have accumulated quite a number of those :)

One thing to remember, the language used in the Dianetics book was the current, common daily language in the 50s. Hence, if one finds it complicated or using Shakespeare's language... you know what to blame... US's "dumbing down" of its education level... so that one would need the MSM and "news" to do the "'splaining."

YOu are right. I think I need a good lesson in patience before I conquer Dianetics. : )

[jiminii]

The bhudda understood the mind and body connection and realized that if you stop creating saṅkhāra's and sat in meditation the old saṅkhāra's will start to come to the surface one by one. If we can sit there and let them arise so they can just pass away, we can process through these and clear them one by one. When we cleared out all of our saṅkhāra's, we were a liberated soul. It can take many life times to process through all of these. Some saṅkhāra's might take a second to process, others might takes years to fully let go of in meditation.

It is also my understanding, that saṅkhāra's, also known as beliefs, can get grooved if we reinforce them for many lifetimes. The soul will then offer up lifetimes to "break" the illusion. If we base our world view that we are creators, and that everything which happens to us is "our choice" based on our accumulative experience and beliefs, and lose the "victim" mentality, we can then understand why one might choose, on a soul level, to live in abject poverty in a war zone. This vibrates the survival chakra very deeply and continuously, to fully imbed the resonance in that soul's DNA and attempt to shift the belief.

That's a very "slow" way to evolve. Some have postulated, that the average person barely integrates maybe 1-2% in just one chakra in a lifetime, which means it could take millions of lifetimes to reach an embodied soul, able to hold the full spectrum of light within a body, without exploding. Those who occasionally have peak energy surges which vibrate their upper chakras for a brief moment, who then return to their resting homeostasis, will interpret these as being "special", when in fact, they are not.

So, the idea of accelerating the "clearing" out of old beliefs, karma, stuck and sequestered energy in our chakras, opening up to more energy, more insights, more depth, tone, timbre, and texture, is intriguing to those who are already doing such clearing. So many alternative healing modalities, spiritual paths, and ancient alchemical processes have been doing this, and are tools just like Scientology is. Which trail you take to the top of the mountain is immaterial, as is how fast you want to travel. Any traveler who goes up the mountain will reach the apex, no matter which trail they take. It's a personal choice, and take as long as you want. Linear time is an illusion anyway.

I spent 6 years in Primal Therapy, a modality which Dane Tops would say was a spin off of L. Ron Hubbard's discoveries. The Primal Scream was a runaway best seller in the early 70'a and John Lennon had a stint where he did Primal Therapy. Arthur Janov was just such a genius, like L.Ron Hubbard was, but he too had his quirks. I can say, Primal Therapy was not "scream" therapy, as it was portrayed in the media.

It basically brought the person back to the early childhood scene where the energetic charge of the experience was too overwhelming and painful to experience. This causes an energetic sequestration and a permanent disconnect, leaving parts of the self inaccessible, as a matter of survival. Early infant and childhood trauma imbeds in the viscera and the cells, the very core brainstem of our bodies.

The process idea is to "relive" the catalytic event with it's full charge value, known as "catharsis" and discharge the energy, reconnecting the old hidden and sequestered energy back into wholeness, along with the subsequent disappearance of all the belief structures which supported it, with the brain synapses actually rewiring, hormone levels shifting, even how one's face loses the contortions from the pain.

It's quite extraordinary actually. It's more the resistance to the catharsis which is painful, rather than the actual catharsis itself. Once you have had such a "clearing", and the world looks so much more colorful, you do want the full monte and cant wait to do the work. Very few are willing to cross the pain barrier because the resistance, right at the point of the electrical charge being strong enough to render the session to "click" into the memory with the full body, mind, and soul involved, is huge.

We are also taught to avoid pain and embrace pleasure. Whole movements have sprung up as offshoots of the clearing process (the Secret, Landmark Forum, etc.) and focus on attaining that which you "want", yet anything acquired in duality brings BOTH polarities. You get the good stuff, but you get the bad stuff too. How to create from the heart, and through the heart, is the actual alchemy taught down through the ages. The Essenes knew this, as did the Druids, and the Tibetian Monks. These were the ancients who preserved the original teachings from Atlantis.

So, there is nothing new under the sun. All that you want or need is recorded within you, in your very DNA, resides in your chakras, either as free flowing energy, of blocked energy. It is good to have a supportive person to sit with you when you are triggered, if even just to listen and not try to FIX it! That is what psychotherapy is for, to modify your behavior so that you function properly as a good slave for the elite's machine. If you feel safe, and are with someone with a heart, anyone can clear their crap.

LRH said ... and I don't know where .. that he was in the eastern countries ... and he found a lot of their technology had been booby trapped ... he assumed that the people passing down this tech didn't want anyone to get the benefit or powers from it .... he said there is a proper way to run the chakras and an improper way ... one way works the other way traps the being ..

he said, "thought is senior to all physical unverse mechanics MEST ..matter energy space and time) ... pop a being out of his head and the SPIRIT KNOWS how to repair the body ... we made these bodies so we naturally KNOW how to repair them ...

I am not saying your data is wrong ...I am just saying that they must be done right ...

At Flag service org FSO i got so frustrated because no one wanted to do the game ... or do only what they have to ,,, like send letters out ,... suddenly the being in me ran all these seems like little gold balls in a circle around the head ... like bip bip bip bip bip ,.. and all the GI and people coming into the org stopped ,.. I thought oh my god ,.. I must have undone all of my postulates .... suddenly they were telling everyone ... this is an emergency .... we have to get letters out ... and they were pulling all the files from central files out giving them to everyone and everyone started to write letters ... I was practically laughing in hysteria inside me ,,, and thought "i guess this is one way to get them to write letters " .. then i put back in my postulates and the statistics went back up again ,,

but this does prove one thing we are creating it all ..
Jim

[jiminii]

The bhudda understood the mind and body connection and realized that if you stop creating saṅkhāra's and sat in meditation the old saṅkhāra's will start to come to the surface one by one. If we can sit there and let them arise so they can just pass away, we can process through these and clear them one by one. When we cleared out all of our saṅkhāra's, we were a liberated soul. It can take many life times to process through all of these. Some saṅkhāra's might take a second to process, others might takes years to fully let go of in meditation.

It is also my understanding, that saṅkhāra's, also known as beliefs, can get grooved if we reinforce them for many lifetimes. The soul will then offer up lifetimes to "break" the illusion. If we base our world view that we are creators, and that everything which happens to us is "our choice" based on our accumulative experience and beliefs, and lose the "victim" mentality, we can then understand why one might choose, on a soul level, to live in abject poverty in a war zone. This vibrates the survival chakra very deeply and continuously, to fully imbed the resonance in that soul's DNA and attempt to shift the belief.

That's a very "slow" way to evolve. Some have postulated, that the average person barely integrates maybe 1-2% in just one chakra in a lifetime, which means it could take millions of lifetimes to reach an embodied soul, able to hold the full spectrum of light within a body, without exploding. Those who occasionally have peak energy surges which vibrate their upper chakras for a brief moment, who then return to their resting homeostasis, will interpret these as being "special", when in fact, they are not.

So, the idea of accelerating the "clearing" out of old beliefs, karma, stuck and sequestered energy in our chakras, opening up to more energy, more insights, more depth, tone, timbre, and texture, is intriguing to those who are already doing such clearing. So many alternative healing modalities, spiritual paths, and ancient alchemical processes have been doing this, and are tools just like Scientology is. Which trail you take to the top of the mountain is immaterial, as is how fast you want to travel. Any traveler who goes up the mountain will reach the apex, no matter which trail they take. It's a personal choice, and take as long as you want. Linear time is an illusion anyway.

I spent 6 years in Primal Therapy, a modality which Dane Tops would say was a spin off of L. Ron Hubbard's discoveries. The Primal Scream was a runaway best seller in the early 70'a and John Lennon had a stint where he did Primal Therapy. Arthur Janov was just such a genius, like L.Ron Hubbard was, but he too had his quirks. I can say, Primal Therapy was not "scream" therapy, as it was portrayed in the media.

It basically brought the person back to the early childhood scene where the energetic charge of the experience was too overwhelming and painful to experience. This causes an energetic sequestration and a permanent disconnect, leaving parts of the self inaccessible, as a matter of survival. Early infant and childhood trauma imbeds in the viscera and the cells, the very core brainstem of our bodies.

The process idea is to "relive" the catalytic event with it's full charge value, known as "catharsis" and discharge the energy, reconnecting the old hidden and sequestered energy back into wholeness, along with the subsequent disappearance of all the belief structures which supported it, with the brain synapses actually rewiring, hormone levels shifting, even how one's face loses the contortions from the pain.

It's quite extraordinary actually. It's more the resistance to the catharsis which is painful, rather than the actual catharsis itself. Once you have had such a "clearing", and the world looks so much more colorful, you do want the full monte and cant wait to do the work. Very few are willing to cross the pain barrier because the resistance, right at the point of the electrical charge being strong enough to render the session to "click" into the memory with the full body, mind, and soul involved, is huge.

We are also taught to avoid pain and embrace pleasure. Whole movements have sprung up as offshoots of the clearing process (the Secret, Landmark Forum, etc.) and focus on attaining that which you "want", yet anything acquired in duality brings BOTH polarities. You get the good stuff, but you get the bad stuff too. How to create from the heart, and through the heart, is the actual alchemy taught down through the ages. The Essenes knew this, as did the Druids, and the Tibetian Monks. These were the ancients who preserved the original teachings from Atlantis.

So, there is nothing new under the sun. All that you want or need is recorded within you, in your very DNA, resides in your chakras, either as free flowing energy, of blocked energy. It is good to have a supportive person to sit with you when you are triggered, if even just to listen and not try to FIX it! That is what psychotherapy is for, to modify your behavior so that you function properly as a good slave for the elite's machine. If you feel safe, and are with someone with a heart, anyone can clear their crap.

LRH said ... and I don't know where .. that he was in the eastern countries ... and he found a lot of their technology had been booby trapped ... he assumed that the people passing down this tech didn't want anyone to get the benefit or powers from it .... he said there is a proper way to run the chakras and an improper way ... one way works the other way traps the being ..

he said, "thought is senior to all physical unverse mechanics MEST ..matter energy space and time) ... pop a being out of his head and the SPIRIT KNOWS how to repair the body ... we made these bodies so we naturally KNOW how to repair them ...

I am not saying your data is wrong ...I am just saying that they must be done right ...

At Flag service org FSO i got so frustrated because no one wanted to do the game ... or do only what they have to ,,, like send letters out ,... suddenly the being in me ran all these seems like little gold balls in a circle around the head ... like bip bip bip bip bip ,.. and all the GI and people coming into the org stopped ,.. I thought oh my god ,.. I must have undone all of my postulates .... suddenly they were telling everyone ... this is an emergency .... we have to get letters out ... and they were pulling all the files from central files out giving them to everyone and everyone started to write letters ... I was practically laughing in hysteria inside me ,,, and thought "i guess this is one way to get them to write letters " .. then i put back in my postulates and the statistics went back up again ,,

but this does prove one thing we are creating it all ..
Jim

I have to add one thing to this ...

LRH thought that instead of hiding in mountains and hills like the buddha's .. the reason being ... they don't want someone to come in there and restimulate the buddha and cave him in and lose all his abilities ... they would have you go to the lower level buddha's to protect the higher level ... why because they only destimulate the pain in the mind .. they don't erase it .. and it can come back on the person ... he said there are 8 survival dynamics ...
survival self
sex and/or family
groups
all man kind
all life forms
the MEST .. physical universe
the spiritual univers
as or though a god ...
any one of these dynamics is down.. the rest of dynamics will come down to the degree that it impinges on his survival

so not having a family???
well you can supplement the second dynamic sex/family for creative thought .. music anything
and it will keep the other dynamics up
the environment .MEST physical universe. like the chem trails ... will pull you down

the idea would be to create a statistic for each dynamic and try to keep all of them at optimum survival

it is a different viewpoint .

by the way I do appreciate you telling me all this because I haven't been in those studies and I find them fascinating too

jim

[enfoldedblue]

Hi Bill,

I will be honest I am approaching this with extreme caution. I have an open mind and am aware of how easily the baby can be thrown out with the bathwater. I understand the concept of 'clear' and feel that I have been doing a good job of working towards a similar goal. The approach I have taken however is much more organic and does not involve technology (and is not derived from anything related to the teachings of LRH). My teacher is the universe.

However, that being said I am very aware that there are many roads and do not automatically discount the one promoted by Hubbard. The problem I have however is that when I research Hubbard (the person who one would think would be in the best position to benefit from the effects of the technology)...I find endless evidence that suggest that what he practiced differed very greatly from what he preached. There are family members, and many who worked closely with him who suggest that rather than an archetype of balance and purity, he was instead psychologically disturbed.

What are your thoughts on this.

Thanks

Yes, Hubbard himself was clearly not a perfect human being. He had extraordinary positive qualities: determination, creativity, brilliant insight, extraordinary perception, energy, inspiration, leadership, organization, even genius. But he was also very stubborn, egotistical, and controlling.

This is not denied by anyone. The same might be said of most CEOs of major organizations -- which is what the 'Church' became, even before it was taken over.

Here are some mitigating factors which I invite anyone to consider. In proposing these, my stance is still totally that most great men (and women) are flawed, sometimes in direct proportion to the battle which they feel they're fighting in every moment of their lives.

We know that Hubbard was attacked in every which way by the authorities from the moment they judged he was a threat. (This is why the therapy was founded as a 'Church' -- for legal protection. Scientology was never a religion.)

Diana Hubbard, his daughter, stated on record that the first manuscript of her father's 1950 book (which he wrote in six weeks flat), Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental Health, was stolen by the Russians. And... has anyone reading this ever been affected by psychic attacks? One might speculate on what Hubbard was enduring all those years -- all the time researching how to combat these same phenomena.

I am a very minor public figure indeed, and yet I've been through the mill backwards, upside down, inside out and sideways. I've been attacked, discredited, smeared, pilloried, misquoted, misrepresented, disappointed, stolen from, irradiated, let down, lied to, and psychically affected in numerous ways, including several times having experienced beings trying to attack me in my dreams and sleep.

And I'm not the only one, by any means. Sometimes this kinda gets to you (seriously: it really does); and one might forgive someone trying to do a good job which is not in the interests of the ruling elite, who occasionally snaps and does not operate at his or her finest... or (beyond that) might end up making some bad or unwise decisions.

For these reasons, I look at his work, and that I regard as the real measure of the man.

Thanks Bill,

For some reason I was under the impression he was supposed to be 'clear', are you saying he was not?

[jiminii]

I know you secret admire of LRD Bill, mostly because of the his tech,/tools. It would be a disaster if only you started this subject, luckily Jim showed up.

I received 220 in patient, 600 out patient mental Institution's statistic for last week in my request.

-50 people in treatment patients claim they are hearing voices from Andromeda and Zeticuli galaxy 14 of them claiming they are the Mehdi( (Mesaya).

- 26 of them carry a Gene which provides supernatural power.

-10 of them in suicidal watch because of the their self exorcism.

-72 of them tried exorcism on their family member

-3 of them tried exorcism on random people .

Interesting part is out patient category :

32 of them was forensic requested for legal Incompetence 27 of them were found competent which leads them to the judicial system for abusing naive people for financial gain. This is only one week admission you guess the rest.;)

I have always wondered exactly what percentage of "delusional" people, actually experienced something more than their own mind.

psychiatry was setup from the people they experimented with in the german concentration camps in WWII
the cabal ... decided to pay a lot of scholarships to promote it in the major universities ... their main purpose was to get rid of political enemies

as told by LRH

jim

[jiminii]

Hi Bill,

I will be honest I am approaching this with extreme caution. I have an open mind and am aware of how easily the baby can be thrown out with the bathwater. I understand the concept of 'clear' and feel that I have been doing a good job of working towards a similar goal. The approach I have taken however is much more organic and does not involve technology (and is not derived from anything related to the teachings of LRH). My teacher is the universe.

However, that being said I am very aware that there are many roads and do not automatically discount the one promoted by Hubbard. The problem I have however is that when I research Hubbard (the person who one would think would be in the best position to benefit from the effects of the technology)...I find endless evidence that suggest that what he practiced differed very greatly from what he preached. There are family members, and many who worked closely with him who suggest that rather than an archetype of balance and purity, he was instead psychologically disturbed.

What are your thoughts on this.

Thanks

Yes, Hubbard himself was clearly not a perfect human being. He had extraordinary positive qualities: determination, creativity, brilliant insight, extraordinary perception, energy, inspiration, leadership, organization, even genius. But he was also very stubborn, egotistical, and controlling.

This is not denied by anyone. The same might be said of most CEOs of major organizations -- which is what the 'Church' became, even before it was taken over.

Here are some mitigating factors which I invite anyone to consider. In proposing these, my stance is still totally that most great men (and women) are flawed, sometimes in direct proportion to the battle which they feel they're fighting in every moment of their lives.

We know that Hubbard was attacked in every which way by the authorities from the moment they judged he was a threat. (This is why the therapy was founded as a 'Church' -- for legal protection. Scientology was never a religion.)

Diana Hubbard, his daughter, stated on record that the first manuscript of her father's 1950 book (which he wrote in six weeks flat), Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental Health, was stolen by the Russians. And... has anyone reading this ever been affected by psychic attacks? One might speculate on what Hubbard was enduring all those years -- all the time researching how to combat these same phenomena.

I am a very minor public figure indeed, and yet I've been through the mill backwards, upside down, inside out and sideways. I've been attacked, discredited, smeared, pilloried, misquoted, misrepresented, disappointed, stolen from, irradiated, let down, lied to, and psychically affected in numerous ways, including several times having experienced beings trying to attack me in my dreams and sleep.

And I'm not the only one, by any means. Sometimes this kinda gets to you (seriously: it really does); and one might forgive someone trying to do a good job which is not in the interests of the ruling elite, who occasionally snaps and does not operate at his or her finest... or (beyond that) might end up making some bad or unwise decisions.

For these reasons, I look at his work, and that I regard as the real measure of the man.

Thanks Bill,

For some reason I was under the impression he was supposed to be 'clear', are you saying he was not?

LRH said ... "we won't talk about how I got clear" in a conversation

he went clear just like I did ... from base 2 auditing ... that is what I get from my perceptions

one day you are getting headaches and the next day you never get them again

in fact since I haven't had any headaches since very young ,,, I really wonder how others can take it ,,

I hate pain ... and I don't get pain ... except if I hit my head on something or stub my foot ... but I can take the pain away sooner not longer like 3 or 4 days
usually in less than a day or if I do a contact assist ... (touching the thing that hurt you in the exact position you were and trying to duplicate it's creation to make it vanish)
and it is gone and cured in about 5 minutes ... this means hitting the thumb so hard that it would take the thumb nail off ... but with a contact assist .. it all goes back to normal and no swelling and no lose of a thumb nail

bill tell them about the assists

Jim

[kirolak]

Do you remember what was said about the wrong vs right way to operate the chakras? I'd be grateful if you could just say a few words about it!

[Bo Atkinson]

....I hate pain ... and I don't get pain ... except if I hit my head on something or stub my foot ... but I can take the pain away sooner not longer like 3 or 4 days
usually in less than a day or if I do a contact assist ... (touching the thing that hurt you in the exact position you were and trying to duplicate it's creation to make it vanish)
and it is gone and cured in about 5 minutes ... this means hitting the thumb so hard that it would take the thumb nail off ... but with a contact assist .. it all goes back to normal and no swelling and no lose of a thumb nail

bill tell them about the assists

Jim


If i can add this- Often i get a feeling it is dumb of me to post deeper things-- What rights do i have here? Personal experience can become much to complex to explain. The significant contexts can not be connected adequately, for every reader to understand. Readers who may scan threads, in between their own cycles or tides of life.

I will describe my most amazing touch assist experience, as briefly as possible.... I had done the course twice, decades previously, once with my wife of 42 years. (Except that we both quit Scientology by 1978). She actually liked doing these touch assists more than me and too often suggested doing them for small injuries. (I got lots of inconsequential work injuries throughout my laborer's life). I tended to say, good, that's enough of the 'assist'... (Got to get back to the material laboring).

Touch assists can seem way to simplistic for the inexperienced observer- As the function is clearly mind over matter. At a level which any person, really, can master such healing. Or perhaps this interferes with the whole hypnotism of physical life- The hypnotic need of common people to be at the 'effect' of external causes. The need of societally-educated people to create their own reality of needing authority-sanctioned healing alone.

IMHO, the average person has indeed postulated their own ineffectiveness in healing, period. Ineffectiveness does require a personal act- To believe in the teachings of a controlled society, that we are mere effects of much greater, external causes. It is not extraordinary to me. That pleasant people can in fact support the status-quo (of our epochal crashing)... So i do support this thread, if it is a group effort to turn the tide. (To postulate better days ahead, let us say.)

In any case, my most amazing experience of receiving a touch assist, from my wife, was waking up into full awareness, after my biggest life injury, immediately, on the scene, after a several hour concussion. (http://harmoniouspalette.com/CostFreeHVAC/HeadInjury-NaturalCure.html)

The funny thing was my first aware perception: My wife's touch assist routine. And my typical response of: OK, that's enough, i need to get back to work-- Except that definitely wasn't going to happen any time soon ^__^ I suddenly became aware of the scene of: what had happened to me?... the pain and suffering, skull fracture, blood on the brain, dizziness--- That took weeks to repair, through unconventional means (let me add).

I actually hadn't thought about this touch-assist incident, until last month! (My wife and i have not used or thought this specific, simple protocol in decades, besides this incident). I had put most of my focus on what what had happened to my lost time-- How is possible for attackers to blank out my mind? Why would they put a murder order on me? It took years to review all these things and then to repair. Too many complex things to make sense of. Too many contexts, for this to appear real. But there we have it, the controllers crave massive confusion among all people.

Thanks everyone who can stand up and postulate better days ahead.

[Limor Wolf]

-------

To Tangri (above):

So ..


Simon Parkes (who claims he's been abducted countless times) should be in a psych ward.
Anyone who tries to help another person who says they're affected by negative entities is insane.
Anyone who is driven to attempted suicide should be under psychiatric medication.
Supernatural powers do not exist and are a delusion.


Right? :)

Isn't that number is high for 2,5 million city population (Izmir- Turkey) population.
for surrender? If they were mistakenly (worths with black opp) taken in, then humanity is in real danger, even doomed we lost almost all rescue team :o

your 3rd Q's answer is definitely Yes. First they must be taken an observation(auditing) then medical support.
Supernatural power might be exist but on the other hand delusion is definitely exist.
If you want to find about delusion this can help you

Greyhound killer believed man he beheaded was an alien

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2012/05/22/mb-vince-li-schizophrenia-interview-manitoba.html

It must be observed for clear distinction , in knowledge,/information pollution by experienced eyes.


Hello Tangri, We seem to be neighbors, Turkey and Israel are not that far : )



Originally posted by Bill Ryan: " Anyone who is driven to attempted suicide should be under psychiatric medication?"


Originally posted by Tangri: "your 3rd Q's answer is definitely Yes. First they must be taken an observation(auditing) then medical support"

I wish you could consider this pretty resolute determination of yours. In our world today, many people come to the point where they are forced to rummage the garbage cans, to fight disease and infection, to live within war zones, to discover that the systems around them are collapsing, maybe discover that there is really no one who cares for them as they thought there is. We all mostly live within low energy atmosphere. The soul in such cases is making itself heard loud and clear. If someone would hit you and cause you an injury, It is unprobable that you would have been considering to arrest yourself. Societiy's attitude towards the soul as opposed to the physical organ in the body is so discriminatory.

In addition there are other factors in this not so boring place that we live in, and there are quite a lot of outside interventions which effect our psych, whether we are aware of it or not. I have spent two years of my life under heavy depression in my twenties, I did not attempt to take my own life at any one point , but I wished someone or something else would have done that for me. It reached to a level that I was crossing the street deliberately slowly to try and get hit by a car. All the while I knew that something strange is happening with me that I could not explain. As a person my head is very well placed on my shoulders and my feet are firmely planted in the ground, but then I was recieving thoughts that were not my own. In 2006 these same thoughts (now I know were radiated to my brain), together with some health issues and a severe lack of sleep (insomnia) made me go and do something that under no other circumstances I would do and which was absolutely against my own character. I could have get away with it, but stubbornly decided to wait for the police in what was my own personal attempt to stop these thoughts and get myself out of this unexplainable state of mind. I later took responsibility on what I done although I was taken to a police station, and had to give my finger prints like a criminal. Let me give you my absolute promise that I am not one.

We have a lot of outside influences. And of course this may not be true to all occurances and not to all cases but from what I understand and it's legitimate to have all various of opinions here, contary to what you claim, Tangri, psychiatric drugs are not able to change the situation and provide a complete recovery, it provide concealment, while the problems themselves are not being approached and the real understanding that the many reasons that our soul is sometimes crying for help is not recieving any real reference from the esteblishment, even though some good intentioned people are certainly working there.

A few weeks ago I came across on the web in an excrept from a TV show where an inteligent, wise and sensetive person who now works as a rehabilitation guide (assisting other people with mental illness) was interviewd and had an extraordinery story to tell, in a certain period in his life he was hearing voices and was thinking that he is the head of the Israeli "mossad", he was leaving his house and heading for the knesset in Jerusalem. I had the urge to call him, I located his number and we had a brief and pleasent talk where I promised to send him some new information for his consideration. we agreed that this kind of thing often interestingly occur with people who are more sensetive and more inteligent than the average person. Not much else was talked about other then that.

In our world today there are so many cases that can be considered as 'delusional', certainly some of them is exactly that, in some of the occurances it can be the tapping of one into another reality, in others it can be an outside intervention, and in some of the cases it can simply be the soul stating that it is hurting. But in all the cases without exception there's the one thing that characterizes our world today and that is the lack of love. If you want to heal this long list of patient, Tangri, give them love and compassion. Look them in the eye. Not one psychiatric drug can provide that, and no one medication can heal the world as much as love and some real understanding can


~^&*~^&*

Limor

[RunningDeer]

The bhudda understood the mind and body connection and realized that if you stop creating saṅkhāra's and sat in meditation the old saṅkhāra's will start to come to the surface one by one. If we can sit there and let them arise so they can just pass away, we can process through these and clear them one by one. When we cleared out all of our saṅkhāra's, we were a liberated soul. It can take many life times to process through all of these. Some saṅkhāra's might take a second to process, others might takes years to fully let go of in meditation.

I spent 6 years in Primal Therapy, a modality which Dane Tops would say was a spin off of L. Ron Hubbard's discoveries. The Primal Scream was a runaway best seller in the early 70'a and John Lennon had a stint where he did Primal Therapy. Arthur Janov was just such a genius, like L.Ron Hubbard was, but he too had his quirks. I can say, Primal Therapy was not "scream" therapy, as it was portrayed in the media.

It basically brought the person back to the early childhood scene where the energetic charge of the experience was too overwhelming and painful to experience. This causes an energetic sequestration and a permanent disconnect, leaving parts of the self inaccessible, as a matter of survival. Early infant and childhood trauma imbeds in the viscera and the cells, the very core brainstem of our bodies.

The process idea is to "relive" the catalytic event with it's full charge value, known as "catharsis" and discharge the energy, reconnecting the old hidden and sequestered energy back into wholeness, along with the subsequent disappearance of all the belief structures which supported it, with the brain synapses actually rewiring, hormone levels shifting, even how one's face loses the contortions from the pain.

It's quite extraordinary actually. It's more the resistance to the catharsis which is painful, rather than the actual catharsis itself. Once you have had such a "clearing", and the world looks so much more colorful, you do want the full monte and cant wait to do the work. Very few are willing to cross the pain barrier because the resistance, right at the point of the electrical charge being strong enough to render the session to "click" into the memory with the full body, mind, and soul involved, is huge.

We are also taught to avoid pain and embrace pleasure. Whole movements have sprung up as offshoots of the clearing process (the Secret, Landmark Forum, etc.) and focus on attaining that which you "want", yet anything acquired in duality brings BOTH polarities. You get the good stuff, but you get the bad stuff too. How to create from the heart, and through the heart, is the actual alchemy taught down through the ages. The Essenes knew this, as did the Druids, and the Tibetian Monks. These were the ancients who preserved the original teachings from Atlantis.

So, there is nothing new under the sun. All that you want or need is recorded within you, in your very DNA, resides in your chakras, either as free flowing energy, of blocked energy. It is good to have a supportive person to sit with you when you are triggered, if even just to listen and not try to FIX it! That is what psychotherapy is for, to modify your behavior so that you function properly as a good slave for the elite's machine. If you feel safe, and are with someone with a heart, anyone can clear their crap.

Your “Primal Therapy” reminds me that in 1974, I enrolled in personal development seminar called the “Fischer-Hoffman Process“. It was part cerebral, with lots of journaling and part physical which included, the primal screaming and a birthing process. I tapped into the parts of myself that were blocked with feelings of pain, rage, anger and fear all the way back in utero. One innocent that came up was that I re-experienced my Mom falling down the rickety, cellar stairs while she was pregnant.

At the time, I didn’t have a relationship with my parent to discuss such therapies. Some twenty years later, I asked my mom about the fall. She had forgotten about it, never told anyone, and asked how could I have known.

The biggest take away from the “Fischer-Hoffman Process“ was as long as I was willing to go beyond the resistance to the fear or resistance to pain, it always brought me to a place of silence like after a cathartic cry. I saw that the fear itself was often greater than the perceived event/feeling.

It would be years later, when I faced the biggest painful event in my life. I reached the point that I felt had no other choice but to experience it 100% or die because for months, I was a nothing, numb, exhausted, walking corpse. I dropped to the frozen ground and screeched and wept. Until I was consumed in beauty and warmth and I felt big and small at the same time. And then silence.

[Bill Ryan]

Hi Bill,

I will be honest I am approaching this with extreme caution. I have an open mind and am aware of how easily the baby can be thrown out with the bathwater. I understand the concept of 'clear' and feel that I have been doing a good job of working towards a similar goal. The approach I have taken however is much more organic and does not involve technology (and is not derived from anything related to the teachings of LRH). My teacher is the universe.

However, that being said I am very aware that there are many roads and do not automatically discount the one promoted by Hubbard. The problem I have however is that when I research Hubbard (the person who one would think would be in the best position to benefit from the effects of the technology)...I find endless evidence that suggest that what he practiced differed very greatly from what he preached. There are family members, and many who worked closely with him who suggest that rather than an archetype of balance and purity, he was instead psychologically disturbed.

What are your thoughts on this.

Thanks

Yes, Hubbard himself was clearly not a perfect human being. He had extraordinary positive qualities: determination, creativity, brilliant insight, extraordinary perception, energy, inspiration, leadership, organization, even genius. But he was also very stubborn, egotistical, and controlling.

This is not denied by anyone. The same might be said of most CEOs of major organizations -- which is what the 'Church' became, even before it was taken over.

Here are some mitigating factors which I invite anyone to consider. In proposing these, my stance is still totally that most great men (and women) are flawed, sometimes in direct proportion to the battle which they feel they're fighting in every moment of their lives.

We know that Hubbard was attacked in every which way by the authorities from the moment they judged he was a threat. (This is why the therapy was founded as a 'Church' -- for legal protection. Scientology was never a religion.)

Diana Hubbard, his daughter, stated on record that the first manuscript of her father's 1950 book (which he wrote in six weeks flat), Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental Health, was stolen by the Russians. And... has anyone reading this ever been affected by psychic attacks? One might speculate on what Hubbard was enduring all those years -- all the time researching how to combat these same phenomena.

I am a very minor public figure indeed, and yet I've been through the mill backwards, upside down, inside out and sideways. I've been attacked, discredited, smeared, pilloried, misquoted, misrepresented, disappointed, stolen from, irradiated, let down, lied to, and psychically affected in numerous ways, including several times having experienced beings trying to attack me in my dreams and sleep.

And I'm not the only one, by any means. Sometimes this kinda gets to you (seriously: it really does); and one might forgive someone trying to do a good job which is not in the interests of the ruling elite, who occasionally snaps and does not operate at his or her finest... or (beyond that) might end up making some bad or unwise decisions.

For these reasons, I look at his work, and that I regard as the real measure of the man.

Thanks Bill,

For some reason I was under the impression he was supposed to be 'clear', are you saying he was not?

Many thanks, and this is an important question. The issue of 'Clear' is easily (and forgivably) misunderstood.

'Clear' is a technical term meaning (as a very loose summary) that you don't have any more engrams. See the 'Dianetics Picture Book', reposted below, for details. Hubbard's description in his early 1950 book 'Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health' was too optimistic in practice, though he was definitely aware of and striving for something real. 'Clear' does absolutely NOT mean that you're a perfect human being, or are not affected by other things.

Erasing all your engrams is a very valuable threshold to cross. But it's just a step along the way. It's not at all the end of the road. There's a LOT else in terms of unfinished business, accumulated through the millennia, that can drag one down and affect attitudes, beliefs, goals, behavior, your body, and just about everything else.

http://projectavalon.net/Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf
http://projectavalon.net/Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf

For various reasons too complex to go into here, after reaching 'Clear' as a threshold, one can then audit oneself rather than being dependent on another person to audit you. Although it's still nice, and sometimes easler, to talk to another person when figuring things out! But after 'Clear', 'solo auditing' becomes possible, and is encouraged.

One of the reasons why 'Clear' is not the end of the personal development road is that Planet Earth is absolutely crawling with entities of various kinds which stick to our souls and our bodies -- either directly, or attached at a kind of influencing distance. (All unsavory, but true.) There are two remedies for this:


Bolster ourselves up so that we are not affected by these external influences (and they are external, inasmuch as they are not within ourselves as beings).
Handle and free the entities that are focused on ourselves. (And, if we wish, we can free the entities that are focused on others. This is a kind of part of the Bodhisattva function. If we can help to liberate others, then some people choose to do so.)


Some people maintain that the entity situation on the planet isn't real, and hold a viewpoint of denial about this entire edifice of stuff -- the reality of which any shaman worth their salt over the last several thousand years knows a great deal about, and can confirm. The Buddhists know all about it, too: they call them "Angry Ghosts". It's a good term.

But if someone does deny it, the entities don't care. (Or in some cases, they'll be delighted!) They'll go after you anyway -- especially if you're trying to change things on this planet, and help out a little. Hundreds of Avalonians know this well.

Hubbard himself spent quite a number of years chasing down the subject of 'Clear' - and famously made one or two wrong turns, and announcements that were too premature -- but after that was all straightened out, he discovered there was a lot more 'on the other side'.

Arguably, that was when his personality really started to change -- and it did, sometime in the 1960s. Now aware of what he was really up against (think of all the legions of Angry Ghosts in existence, and there are a lot of those!), he went into battle mode and took the 'Church' with him.

And, my personal opinion is that he made some bad decisions, and didn't handle it very well. But his research continued, and -- as I've said elsewhere, pretty much -- tens of thousands of others have benefited hugely because he was willing to do the trial-and-error experimental work on himself.

[enfoldedblue]

Thanks Bill,

For some reason I was under the impression he was supposed to be 'clear', are you saying he was not?

Many thanks, and this is an important question. The issue of 'Clear' is easily (and forgivably) misunderstood.

'Clear' is a technical term meaning (as a very loose summary) that you don't have any more engrams. See the 'Dianetics Picture Book', reposted below, for details. Hubbard's description in his early 1950 book 'Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health' was too optimistic in practice, though he was definitely aware of and striving for something real. 'Clear' does absolutely NOT mean that you're a perfect human being, or are not affected by other things.

Erasing all your engrams is a very valuable threshold to cross. But it's just a step along the way. It's not at all the end of the road. There's a LOT else in terms of unfinished business, accumulated through the millennia, that can drag one down and affect attitudes, beliefs, goals, behavior, your body, and just about everything else.

http://projectavalon.net/Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf
http://projectavalon.net/Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf

For various reasons too complex to go into here, after reaching 'Clear' as a threshold, one can then audit oneself rather than being dependent on another person to audit you. Although it's still nice, and sometimes easler, to talk to another person when figuring things out! But after 'Clear', 'solo auditing' becomes possible, and is encouraged.

One of the reasons why 'Clear' is not the end of the personal development road is that Planet Earth is absolutely crawling with entities of various kinds which stick to our souls and our bodies -- either directly, or attached at a kind of influencing distance. (All unsavory, but true.) There are two remedies for this:


Bolster ourselves up so that we are not affected by these external influences (and they are external, inasmuch as they are not within ourselves as beings).
Handle and free the entities that are focused on ourselves. (And, if we wish, we can free the entities that are focused on others. This is a kind of part of the Bodhisattva function. If we can help to liberate others, then some people choose to do so.)


Some people maintain that the entity situation on the planet isn't real, and hold a viewpoint of denial about this entire edifice of stuff -- the reality of which any shaman worth their salt over the last several thousand years knows a great deal about, and can confirm. The Buddhists know all about it, too: they call them "Angry Ghosts". It's a good term.

But if someone does deny it, the entities don't care. (Or in some cases, they'll be delighted!) They'll go after you anyway -- especially if you're trying to change things on this planet, and help out a little. Hundreds of Avalonians know this well.

Hubbard himself spent quite a number of years chasing down the subject of 'Clear' - and famously made one or two wrong turns, and announcements that were too premature -- but after that was all straightened out, he discovered there was a lot more 'on the other side'.

Arguably, that was when his personality really started to change -- and it did, sometime in the 1960s. Now aware of what he was really up against (think of all the legions of Angry Ghosts in existence, and there are a lot of those!), he went into battle mode and took the 'Church' with him.

And, my personal opinion is that he made some bad decisions, and didn't handle it very well. But his research continued, and -- as I've said elsewhere, pretty much -- tens of thousands of others have benefited hugely because he was willing to do the trial-and-error experimental work on himself.

Thanks for your response Bill. I just had a personal aha moment :) . What I get is that LRH went as far as he could with his technology....but he was missing a key ingredient in the return to wholeness...HEART. Humility, compassion and the ability to let go and be, reside in the heart. I have found that when I allow myself to drop into my heart I feel connected to something much bigger than myself; in this space I no longer feel the need to push, to control, to be important, to dominate.

Perhaps this is what Jiminii is missing as well. There is a child-like beauty to Jiminii (as Christine pointed out), but there is also a sense of being lost and somewhat confused (hi Jiminii love to you).

Unfortunately, or really probably more likely fortunately :) , I do not think that heart connection is something that can be achieved through technology. I believe it starts from cultivating and nurturing a deep sense of love for oneself (not egotistical love, but real love accepting all...the good and the bad), and from there can extend out to everyone and everything.

[CdnSirian]

Jiminii said "in the last few days I have experience auditing coming from somewhere ."

Jiminii who was auditing you? Was this a channelling experience? Meaning, was this a physical person or an entity from another dimension, or off planet, or a voice in your head?

What is base 2 auditing? Thanks.

[Hervé]

Until jiminii comes by to answer...

Is this channeling?:



[...]


THE ROLE OF THE EARTH
November 1952
[excerpts, fair use]

I [LRH] took a little girl one night during a demonstration and put her on the E-Meter - started questioning her and the next thing you knew this little girl was shaking in such a degree that the chair legs were rattling against the floor - I was going at her about something just to show the class what the series of questions would be about current life - and she said: "You mustn't ask me any questions. You mustn't ask me any questions. You mustn't. You mustn't. You mustn't."

"Where are you?"

"I am sitting before a big panel... I didn't use to sit there - I am sitting there right now. This - that's me. I - I sit in front of this panel. This is my job! This is my job. I am not supposed to tell you what my job is, but there's this panel." and so forth.

I said: "It's a communicator switchboard"

"No-ooo!" and she just starts going on .

I said: "Well, you wouldn't mind telling me the codes that go across the panel..." and she passed right straight on out. She'd never heard of bodies in pawn or other governments or invader forces or anything of the sort. So I snapped her around and carried on with the rest of the questioning, and was simply able to do so because I happened to know - this is a very funny thing to say - but I happen to know her commanding officer! And gave her - silly, isn't it - and gave her the messages which had gone across her panel an hour before, at which moment she quieted down.

And she says: "Well, I'll probably be taken all to pieces in the morning". And so I said: "No, you will not be." And she wasn't. But she was a communicator who was running a communications switchboard. She's a communicator in a system known as the space stations.

[...]

... the being, in this case, occupies at least two bodies, one on Earth and the other in front of a communication panel on a space station somewhere in the solar system's asteroid belt.

Off the wall?

As much as time travelers or trans-dimensional entities or ETs from the Pleiades or Orion or a Duncan O'Finioan vaporizing "enemies" in the jungles of Vietnam by holding hands with fellow vaporizers (wonder if they sang Kumbaya?).

It would have been even more interesting if the space station communicator were also being audited at the same time LRH was auditing the little girl on Earth.

So, jim's theta body may not be receiving auditing on Earth, but may be receiving auditing via one or more of his bodies in other locations.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

------

A little more in answer to seko above:



One can also do sessions with a distant auditor over Skype. (The meter can be with either person.)
When solo auditing, unless one is very experienced or highly qualified, one does need guidance on what to audit (i.e. what question-and-answer processes to 'run') from someone who is qualified and experienced and who understands what you're wanting to address.



Does anyone know what the meter is responding to? Resistance, temperature, pulse rate, or something else more metaphysical?

Is the power source batteries?

Having spent some time in analog circuit design, I am curious.

[Hervé]

[...]

Does anyone know what the meter is responding to? Resistance, temperature, pulse rate, or something else more metaphysical?

Is the power source batteries?

Having spent some time in analog circuit design, I am curious.


The basic design of the e-meter is a Wheatstone Bridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheatstone_bridge) working on DC batteries (1,5 V) with a potentiometer to increase or decrease the voltage to equalize the circuit where one of the resistance (Rx) is the "PC's" body:


Wheatstone bridge

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheatstone_bridge#mw-navigation), search (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheatstone_bridge#p-search)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Wheatstonebridge.svg/300px-Wheatstonebridge.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wheatstonebridge.svg) http://bits.wikimedia.org/static-1.22wmf3/skins/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wheatstonebridge.svg)
Wheatstone bridge circuit diagram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_diagram).


A Wheatstone bridge is an electrical circuit used to measure an unknown electrical resistance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_resistance) by balancing two legs of a bridge circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge_circuit), one leg of which includes the unknown component. Its operation is similar to the original potentiometer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentiometer_%28measuring_instrument%29). It was invented by Samuel Hunter Christie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Hunter_Christie) in 1833 and improved and popularized by Sir Charles Wheatstone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Wheatstone) in 1843. One of the Wheatstone bridge's initial uses was for the purpose of soils analysis and comparison.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheatstone_bridge#cite_note-1)


The operation of the e-meter doesn't even care about the value of that resistance.

The auditor only cares if the "PC's" body resistance suddenly increases or decreases...

A "lie detector," like an e-meter, addresses the changes occurring within an individual in the here and now in reaction/response to questions.

Trouble is, and for most people, the here and now contains everything from the past as well as the "automatic" future on top of the "now" (see Steve Richards). Hence a lie detector is unreliable since "reads/registers" can come from past lives, current life, automatic current future and future lives.

People operating lie detectors neglect past and future thinking that any read can only be due to current life. Also, they do not differentiate between a past reality gone unconscious and a virtual, fictitious reality consciously imagined/"mocked up"/thought about by an individual in his/her thoughts.

E-meter operators, up until jiminii, considered current life and past lives but neglected "futures" except as "intentions" in the present. However, e-meter operators do differentiate, between unconscious storage and conscious imagining of such, in determining whether a "read/register" is instant or not.

Now, the e-meter kept being modified and became a "sophisticated" Wheatstone Bridge because there are a number of ways a "read/register" can occur.

The two main ones being and addition or reduction of mass (ridge*) which modifies the overall resistance of the body (Rx) holding the "meter's" electrodes and/or an addition (feeding) or removal (sucking) of electrical energy in the Rx circuit by the "thetan" or by induction due to an electromagnetic "mass" moving around within the individual's field or, also, by electromagnetic signals from TV, radio, cell towers, cell phones, truck and cars passing by, etc...

The "sophistication" in the e-meter is mainly due to the latter with additions of filters to eliminate environmental "parasites"/interferences. These are the "frequency filters" added to the basic Wheatstone Bridge of the e-meter circuit.

The e-meter operator can only see what happens on the meter unless also "psychic" or a very keen observer able to notice subtle changes in the individual holding the meter's electrodes.

LRH being both psychic and gifted with a very keen sense of observation, realized that most "auditors" weren't or wouldn't be either and threw the idea -- for anyone to grab on -- of being able to measure what was happening to "ridges"* in an individual's field when these "ridges" are re-activated ("looked" at or displaced) blown or vanished (as-ised).

Mathieson grab the ball and ran with it and LRH being able to "see" what was happening in people's field as well as corroborate the subtle energy behaviour with physical observation of the "Rx" body holding the "cans"/electrodes was able to modify, suggest improvements and calibrate the e-meter down to what was only necessary to measure or "read" on its dial.

So, being "In Session" and therefore being "interested in one's own 'case' and willing to talk to the auditor" rather than playing with one's energy field to "see" what it would do on the meter is the optimum condition for the use of an e-meter as a tool to help locate where a "ridge"* is causing troubles in one's life.



* RIDGE,
1. it's a standing apparent motionlessness of some kind or other, an
apparent solidity, an apparent no-outflow—no-inflow, that's a ridge. Flows
have direction. Ridges have location. (5904C08)

2. a ridge is caused by two energy flows coinciding and causing an enturbulence of energy, which, on examination, is found to take on a characteristic which in energy flows is very like matter, having its particles in chaotic mixture. (Scn 8-80, p. 43)

3. a ridge is formed from two [opposite] flows and these two flows hitting will pile things up. (PDC 18)

4. a ridge is essentially suspended energy in space. it comes about by flows, dispersals or ridges impinging against one another with a sufficient solidity to cause an enduring state of energy. (Scn 8-8008, p. 18)

5 . a solid body of energy caused by various flows and dispersals which has a duration longer than the duration of flow. Any piece of matter could be considered to be a ridge in its last stage. Ridges, however, exist in suspension around a person and are the foundation upon which facsimiles are built. (Scn 8-8008, p. 49)

6 . facsimiles, or pictures, of motion. (Scn 8-80, p. 45)

7 . areas of dense waves. (Scn 8-8008, p. 78)

8 . electronic densities. (Scn Jour 6-G)





Flow 1 (intention) --------------> X <------ Flow 2 (counter-intention)
Ridge



Most of the time, the counter intention to one's intention is long gone but the created ridge is still there. When, once again, one flows out such an intention (or "looks" at it as directed by a question), that intention "hits" the ridge and its initial "counter intention" is reactivated and confused as being in "present time." Conversely, when a similar "counter intention" is encountered, and although the "intention" is long gone, that "counter intention" also "hits" the ridge and the initial intention "wakes up"....

Accordingly, most people are kept in the "jails" of the past... whence prejudices, antagonisms, conflicts, etc. are kept alive... many a "gut's feeling" are borne out of those "ridges"....

[thunder24]

a friend of mine said magnetism... but that i guess could b included in what u suggested, and i believe nanoo said it responding to his turning on and off of third eye

------

A little more in answer to seko above:



One can also do sessions with a distant auditor over Skype. (The meter can be with either person.)
When solo auditing, unless one is very experienced or highly qualified, one does need guidance on what to audit (i.e. what question-and-answer processes to 'run') from someone who is qualified and experienced and who understands what you're wanting to address.



Does anyone know what the meter is responding to? Resistance, temperature, pulse rate, or something else more metaphysical?

Is the power source batteries?

Having spent some time in analog circuit design, I am curious.

[Carmody]

Wheatstone was an Aetherist.

Quick notes on duplication of a functional circuit. And best use, as a quick analysis on potential issues.

Do not use any permeable materials in it's construction. Keep all circuitry away from any metals of any kind. (secondary effects).

Check to see if any of the components, including the meter have permeable metals in their construction...use a small neodymium magnet to accomplish this. If you find steel, do not use that component.

Your dilemma is that the meter will be the biggest fault in that chain, the meter using spring steel for the needle position mechanism. do your best to find batteries that are non-magnetic. Use batteries. Don't use plug in devices, except for charging batteries. Do not operate it on a metal table, for example.

I can probably make a decent meter. I've got some tricks....

[ThePythonicCow]

Does anyone know what the meter is responding to? Resistance, temperature, pulse rate, or something else more metaphysical?

Is the power source batteries?

Having spent some time in analog circuit design, I am curious.

Based on what some other members posted recently, I got the impression that the meter was a Wheatstone bridge ohmmeter with automatic gain control and frequency filters, to make it sensitive to -changes- in resistance, especially in some rough range (from my unreliable memory) of a few hertz to a few dozen hertz. Apparently there have been quite a few variations over the years, as improvements in economically available electronics enabled improving the power supply (going to battery - Bill says his meter has only needed one battery change in many years now) and in better filtering and gain control.

[Carmody]

What are the 'cans' (electrodes) normally made out of? This is important.

[Hervé]

The specs for the original "cans"/electrodes were that they be coated with tin. Hence the old tin cans for soups, asparagus, etc. were used in the old days.

Then, the "standard" ones were tin platted copper.

Now the "church" uses stainless steel cans, forgetting the initial LRH observation that tin has a stabilizing effect of keeping the individual being audited (PC) in present time, i.e. in the "now."

[jiminii]

Does anyone know what the meter is responding to? Resistance, temperature, pulse rate, or something else more metaphysical?

Is the power source batteries?

Having spent some time in analog circuit design, I am curious.

Based on what some other members posted recently, I got the impression that the meter was a Wheatstone bridge ohmmeter with automatic gain control and frequency filters, to make it sensitive to -changes- in resistance, especially in some rough range (from my unreliable memory) of a few hertz to a few dozen hertz. Apparently there have been quite a few variations over the years, as improvements in economically available electronics enabled improving the power supply (going to battery - Bill says his meter has only needed one battery change in many years now) and in better filtering and gain control.

the meter reads the spirits viewpoints disagreements ...

so if you did something wrong reads
if something happened to you, it reads
if something happened to others that effects you it reads
if something you should have done and didn't do .. it reads
it doesn't read pleasure

jim

[Carmody]

The specs for the original "cans"/electrodes were that they be coated with tin. Hence the old tin cans for soups, asparagus, etc. were used in the old days.

Then, the "standard" ones were tin plated copper.

Now the "church" uses stainless steel cans, forgetting the initial LRH observation that tin has a stabilizing effect of keeping the individual being audited (PC) in present time, i.e. in the "now."


Direct gold plated titanium would be....nearly optimal. Or, direct gold plated copper. Not inexpensive, but probably...notably more centered and responsive. 'Direct gold plated' means no inter-metallic between the gold and can material. Hollow, of course.

Ron's comment on tin would have to be investigated.

Titanium, for the most part, does not suffer from eddy current. This is fairly unique in the tble of elements, in the area of suitable materials.

Gold has no oxide issue to screw up other aspects. (Sweat, humidity, etc)

The combination of the two gives a much cleaner 'floor' for any given potential in measurement.

[ThePythonicCow]

Wheatstone was an Aetherist.
Do you say this to praise Wheatstone, or to bury him (my silly take-off on this quote (http://quotationsbook.com/quote/10055/)) ? (Well, I'll guess neither ... that you're just tossing a stone into the pond, to see what sort of ripples result.)

For a Wikipedia presentation of what it means to be an Aetherist (if I understand Carmody right), the interested reader might consider Lorentz ether theory (Wikipedia) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_ether_theory) or Aether Theories (Wikipedia) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_theories).

Personally my own intuitions, though quite less well formed by genius, study or experiment than the giants of the late 1800's, tend more toward the inclusion of some sort of aether, and toward a local, real view, than that supported by present day "accepted" physics. The trick, that I have in no way mastered yet, is explaining away the results of various Bell inequality and Hardy-Jordan experiments, which purport to demonstrate the essential validity of a non-real, non-local quantum mechanics (Bohr's Copenhagen Interpretation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_interpretation).)

[jiminii]

...

The two main ones being and addition or reduction of mass (ridge*) which modifies the overall resistance of the body (Rx) holding the "meter's" electrodes and/or an addition (feeding) or removal (sucking) of electrical energy in the Rx circuit by the "thetan" or by induction due to an electromagnetic "mass" moving around within the individual's field or, also, by electromagnetic signals from TV, radio, cell towers, cell phones, truck and cars passing by, etc...

The "sophistication" in the e-meter is mainly due to the latter with additions of filters to eliminate environmental "parasites"/interferences. These are the "frequency filters" added to the basic Wheatstone Bridge of the e-meter circuit.

The e-meter operator can only see what happens on the meter unless also "psychic" or a very keen observer able to notice subtle changes in the individual holding the meter's electrodes.

LRH being both psychic and gifted with a very keen sense of observation, realized that most "auditors" weren't or wouldn't be either and threw the idea -- for anyone to grab on -- of being able to measure what was happening to "ridges"* in an individual's field when these "ridges" are re-activated ("looked" at or displaced) blown or vanished (as-ised).

Mathieson grab the ball and ran with it and LRH being able to "see" what was happening in people's field as well as corroborate the subtle energy behaviour with physical observation of the "Rx" body holding the "cans"/electrodes was able to modify, suggest improvements and calibrate the e-meter down to what was only necessary to measure or "read" on its dial.

So, being "In Session" and therefore being "interested in one's own 'case' and willing to talk to the auditor" rather than playing with one's energy field to "see" what it would do on the meter is the optimum condition for the use of an e-meter as a tool to help locate where a "ridge"* is causing troubles in one's life.



* RIDGE,
1. it's a standing apparent motionlessness of some kind or other, an
apparent solidity, an apparent no-outflow—no-inflow, that's a ridge. Flows
have direction. Ridges have location. (5904C08)

2. a ridge is caused by two energy flows coinciding and causing an enturbulence of energy, which, on examination, is found to take on a characteristic which in energy flows is very like matter, having its particles in chaotic mixture. (Scn 8-80, p. 43)

3. a ridge is formed from two [opposite] flows and these two flows hitting will pile things up. (PDC 18)

4. a ridge is essentially suspended energy in space. it comes about by flows, dispersals or ridges impinging against one another with a sufficient solidity to cause an enduring state of energy. (Scn 8-8008, p. 18)

5 . a solid body of energy caused by various flows and dispersals which has a duration longer than the duration of flow. Any piece of matter could be considered to be a ridge in its last stage. Ridges, however, exist in suspension around a person and are the foundation upon which facsimiles are built. (Scn 8-8008, p. 49)

6 . facsimiles, or pictures, of motion. (Scn 8-80, p. 45)

7 . areas of dense waves. (Scn 8-8008, p. 78)

8 . electronic densities. (Scn Jour 6-G)





Flow 1 (intention) --------------> X <------ Flow 2 (counter-intention)
Ridge



Most of the time, the counter intention to one's intention is long gone but the created ridge is still there. When, once again, one flows out such an intention (or "looks" at it as directed by a question), that intention "hits" the ridge and its initial "counter intention" is reactivated and confused as being in "present time." Conversely, when a similar "counter intention" is encountered, and although the "intention" is long gone, that "counter intention" also "hits" the ridge and the initial intention "wakes up"....

Accordingly, most people are kept in the "jails" of the past... whence prejudices, antagonisms, conflicts, etc. are kept alive... many a "gut's feeling" are borne out of those "ridges"....



ridges is what I can feel in my fingers .. move my hands near the body without touching and I can feel little bumps in my fingers ... a person hits his fingers and then resist the paint so the blood circulation slows way down and the finger swells up and all of the communications to the finger is pulled down ... so I can find the ridges all over the body ,.. move my fingers there and blow the ridges and the circulation starts up and next morning all the swelling in gone ..like a Japanese had a motorcycle accident and had swelling on face and hands ... after running if tor about half hour no change was visible but I could feel all the ridges blow and told him should be ok by morning ... next day all the swelling was gone and everyone was completely surprised ... you can do other things with intentions too to heal the body .. but I haven't learned them all

jim

[jiminii]

Do you remember what was said about the wrong vs right way to operate the chakras? I'd be grateful if you could just say a few words about it!

I think he said ... running them up or down ... I think he said you should run them up... not sure .. but running them down would do the opposite

so that would be confusing ... wouldn't it ... I can try to google it
I don't remember what book it was in ...


jim

[Hervé]

[...]


Direct gold plated titanium would be....nearly optimal. Or, direct gold plated copper. Not inexpensive, but probably...notably more centered and responsive. 'Direct gold plated' means no inter-metallic between the gold and can material. Hollow, of course.

Ron's comment on tin would have to be investigated.

Titanium, for the most part, does not suffer from eddy current. This is fairly unique in the tble of elements, in the area of suitable materials.

Gold has no oxide issue to screw up other aspects. (Sweat, humidity, etc)

The combination of the two gives a much cleaner 'floor' for any given potential in measurement.

The thing about the operation of the meter is that one doesn't need an exact measurement but only a relative one for one "sitting"/session. Hence, besides radio waves or trains, trucks, cars passing by which could simulate a read, the relative quality of measurements taken into account dispenses with the rest of indesirable interferences; except when a PC plugs in one of his/her own electronic circuits into the meter-body circuit.

Simply because the "reads" an auditor takes into account are the changes in resistance -- a drop or a rise in resistance -- not the absolute value before or after the change. That's only the transient that's taken into account. The drop in resistance is equated to a "ridge"/resistor has suddenly lost a bit of its mass and became less resistant or, conversely, it could also be due to a ridge/capacitor emitting/generating a small amount of current when "hit" and therefore re-activated/restimulated (see bottom diagram and comment of post # 141 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-Ron-s-Org-Planet-Earth.-Jim-and-the-Future&p=678067&viewfull=1#post678067) above).

[Carmody]

Wheatstone was an Aetherist.
Do you say this to praise Wheatstone, or to bury him (my silly take-off on this quote (http://quotationsbook.com/quote/10055/)) ? (Well, I'll guess neither ... that you're just tossing a stone into the pond, to see what sort of ripples result.)

For a Wikipedia presentation of what it means to be an Aetherist (if I understand Carmody right), the interested reader might consider Lorentz ether theory (Wikipedia) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_ether_theory) or Aether Theories (Wikipedia) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_theories).

Personally my own intuitions, though quite less well formed by genius, study or experiment than the giants of the late 1800's, tend more toward the inclusion of some sort of aether, and toward a local, real view, than that supported by present day "accepted" physics. The trick, that I have in no way mastered yet, is explaining away the results of various Bell inequality and Hardy-Jordan experiments, which purport to demonstrate the essential validity of a non-real, non-local quantum mechanics (Bohr's Copenhagen Interpretation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_interpretation).)

Just making a comment on his reported background, no meaning one way or another.

[jiminii]

-------

To Tangri (above):

So ..


Simon Parkes (who claims he's been abducted countless times) should be in a psych ward.
Anyone who tries to help another person who says they're affected by negative entities is insane.
Anyone who is driven to attempted suicide should be under psychiatric medication.
Supernatural powers do not exist and are a delusion.


Right? :)

Isn't that number is high for 2,5 million city population (Izmir- Turkey) population.
for surrender? If they were mistakenly (worths with black opp) taken in, then humanity is in real danger, even doomed we lost almost all rescue team :o

your 3rd Q's answer is definitely Yes. First they must be taken an observation(auditing) then medical support.
Supernatural power might be exist but on the other hand delusion is definitely exist.
If you want to find about delusion this can help you

Greyhound killer believed man he beheaded was an alien

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2012/05/22/mb-vince-li-schizophrenia-interview-manitoba.html

It must be observed for clear distinction , in knowledge,/information pollution by experienced eyes.


Hello Tangri, We seem to be neighbors, Turkey and Israel are not that far : )



Originally posted by Bill Ryan: " Anyone who is driven to attempted suicide should be under psychiatric medication?"


Originally posted by Tangri: "your 3rd Q's answer is definitely Yes. First they must be taken an observation(auditing) then medical support"

I wish you could consider this pretty resolute determination of yours. In our world today, many people come to the point where they are forced to rummage the garbage cans, to fight disease and infection, to live within war zones, to discover that the systems around them are collapsing, maybe discover that there is really no one who cares for them as they thought there is. We all mostly live within low energy atmosphere. The soul in such cases is making itself heard loud and clear. If someone would hit you and cause you an injury, It is unprobable that you would have been considering to arrest yourself. Societiy's attitude towards the soul as opposed to the physical organ in the body is so discriminatory.

In addition there are other factors in this not so boring place that we live in, and there are quite a lot of outside interventions which effect our psych, whether we are aware of it or not. I have spent two years of my life under heavy depression in my twenties, I did not attempt to take my own life at any one point , but I wished someone or something else would have done that for me. It reached to a level that I was crossing the street deliberately slowly to try and get hit by a car. All the while I knew that something strange is happening with me that I could not explain. As a person my head is very well placed on my shoulders and my feet are firmely planted in the ground, but then I was recieving thoughts that were not my own. In 2006 these same thoughts (now I know were radiated to my brain), together with some health issues and a severe lack of sleep (insomnia) made me go and do something that under no other circumstances I would do and which was absolutely against my own character. I could have get away with it, but stubbornly decided to wait for the police in what was my own personal attempt to stop these thoughts and get myself out of this unexplainable state of mind. I later took responsibility on what I done although I was taken to a police station, and had to give my finger prints like a criminal. Let me give you my absolute promise that I am not one.

We have a lot of outside influences. And of course this may not be true to all occurances and not to all cases but from what I understand and it's legitimate to have all various of opinions here, contary to what you claim, Tangri, psychiatric drugs are not able to change the situation and provide a complete recovery, it provide concealment, while the problems themselves are not being approached and the real understanding that the many reasons that our soul is sometimes crying for help is not recieving any real reference from the esteblishment, even though some good intentioned people are certainly working there.

A few weeks ago I came across on the web in an excrept from a TV show where an inteligent, wise and sensetive person who now works as a rehabilitation guide (assisting other people with mental illness) was interviewd and had an extraordinery story to tell, in a certain period in his life he was hearing voices and was thinking that he is the head of the Israeli "mossad", he was leaving his house and heading for the knesset in Jerusalem. I had the urge to call him, I located his number and we had a brief and pleasent talk where I promised to send him some new information for his consideration. we agreed that this kind of thing often interestingly occur with people who are more sensetive and more inteligent than the average person. Not much else was talked about other then that.

In our world today there are so many cases that can be considered as 'delusional', certainly some of them is exactly that, in some of the occurances it can be the tapping of one into another reality, in others it can be an outside intervention, and in some of the cases it can simply be the soul stating that it is hurting. But in all the cases without exception there's the one thing that characterizes our world today and that is the lack of love. If you want to heal this long list of patient, Tangri, give them love and compassion. Look them in the eye. Not one psychiatric drug can provide that, and no one medication can heal the world as much as love and some real understanding can


~^&*~^&*

Limor

LRH talked about the insane .. he gave a psychiatrist the tech that could heal their patients .. then the psychiatrist came back and said, "it worked ... I found exactly what was wrong with the patient." LRH said "so how is the patient?" .. the psychiatrists, "oh he is insane" LRH asked him what he did and he said, "well when I found out what was wrong with him I told him why all this was effecting him."
this is a break in the auditors code ... you don't evaluate for the patient or person you are auditing ... he must get his own cognition's and another thing is this ...
the patient is mixing pieces of the time track ... so he SEES the snakes coming through the walls ... and the psychiatrist say "that is an illusion there are no snakes" ... so the person is unable to sort out the time track and get back to present time ...
violation of the auditors code ..,. do not invalidate what they say .., just run the incidents ... no evaluation .. no invalidation and the patient will come out of it
\
he said the best way to handle the insane was give them a mild sedative and put him in a completely safe environment so he can destimulate and come back to present time
a psych ward isn't a safe space for any patient since so many insane is in constant restimulation

jim

[jiminii]

Hi Bill,

I will be honest I am approaching this with extreme caution. I have an open mind and am aware of how easily the baby can be thrown out with the bathwater. I understand the concept of 'clear' and feel that I have been doing a good job of working towards a similar goal. The approach I have taken however is much more organic and does not involve technology (and is not derived from anything related to the teachings of LRH). My teacher is the universe.

However, that being said I am very aware that there are many roads and do not automatically discount the one promoted by Hubbard. The problem I have however is that when I research Hubbard (the person who one would think would be in the best position to benefit from the effects of the technology)...I find endless evidence that suggest that what he practiced differed very greatly from what he preached. There are family members, and many who worked closely with him who suggest that rather than an archetype of balance and purity, he was instead psychologically disturbed.

What are your thoughts on this.

Thanks

Yes, Hubbard himself was clearly not a perfect human being. He had extraordinary positive qualities: determination, creativity, brilliant insight, extraordinary perception, energy, inspiration, leadership, organization, even genius. But he was also very stubborn, egotistical, and controlling.

This is not denied by anyone. The same might be said of most CEOs of major organizations -- which is what the 'Church' became, even before it was taken over.

Here are some mitigating factors which I invite anyone to consider. In proposing these, my stance is still totally that most great men (and women) are flawed, sometimes in direct proportion to the battle which they feel they're fighting in every moment of their lives.

We know that Hubbard was attacked in every which way by the authorities from the moment they judged he was a threat. (This is why the therapy was founded as a 'Church' -- for legal protection. Scientology was never a religion.)

Diana Hubbard, his daughter, stated on record that the first manuscript of her father's 1950 book (which he wrote in six weeks flat), Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental Health, was stolen by the Russians. And... has anyone reading this ever been affected by psychic attacks? One might speculate on what Hubbard was enduring all those years -- all the time researching how to combat these same phenomena.

I am a very minor public figure indeed, and yet I've been through the mill backwards, upside down, inside out and sideways. I've been attacked, discredited, smeared, pilloried, misquoted, misrepresented, disappointed, stolen from, irradiated, let down, lied to, and psychically affected in numerous ways, including several times having experienced beings trying to attack me in my dreams and sleep.

And I'm not the only one, by any means. Sometimes this kinda gets to you (seriously: it really does); and one might forgive someone trying to do a good job which is not in the interests of the ruling elite, who occasionally snaps and does not operate at his or her finest... or (beyond that) might end up making some bad or unwise decisions.

For these reasons, I look at his work, and that I regard as the real measure of the man.

Thanks Bill,

For some reason I was under the impression he was supposed to be 'clear', are you saying he was not?

Many thanks, and this is an important question. The issue of 'Clear' is easily (and forgivably) misunderstood.

'Clear' is a technical term meaning (as a very loose summary) that you don't have any more engrams. See the 'Dianetics Picture Book', reposted below, for details. Hubbard's description in his early 1950 book 'Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health' was too optimistic in practice, though he was definitely aware of and striving for something real. 'Clear' does absolutely NOT mean that you're a perfect human being, or are not affected by other things.

Erasing all your engrams is a very valuable threshold to cross. But it's just a step along the way. It's not at all the end of the road. There's a LOT else in terms of unfinished business, accumulated through the millennia, that can drag one down and affect attitudes, beliefs, goals, behavior, your body, and just about everything else.

http://projectavalon.net/Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf
http://projectavalon.net/Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf

For various reasons too complex to go into here, after reaching 'Clear' as a threshold, one can then audit oneself rather than being dependent on another person to audit you. Although it's still nice, and sometimes easler, to talk to another person when figuring things out! But after 'Clear', 'solo auditing' becomes possible, and is encouraged.

One of the reasons why 'Clear' is not the end of the personal development road is that Planet Earth is absolutely crawling with entities of various kinds which stick to our souls and our bodies -- either directly, or attached at a kind of influencing distance. (All unsavory, but true.) There are two remedies for this:


Bolster ourselves up so that we are not affected by these external influences (and they are external, inasmuch as they are not within ourselves as beings).
Handle and free the entities that are focused on ourselves. (And, if we wish, we can free the entities that are focused on others. This is a kind of part of the Bodhisattva function. If we can help to liberate others, then some people choose to do so.)


Some people maintain that the entity situation on the planet isn't real, and hold a viewpoint of denial about this entire edifice of stuff -- the reality of which any shaman worth their salt over the last several thousand years knows a great deal about, and can confirm. The Buddhists know all about it, too: they call them "Angry Ghosts". It's a good term.

But if someone does deny it, the entities don't care. (Or in some cases, they'll be delighted!) They'll go after you anyway -- especially if you're trying to change things on this planet, and help out a little. Hundreds of Avalonians know this well.

Hubbard himself spent quite a number of years chasing down the subject of 'Clear' - and famously made one or two wrong turns, and announcements that were too premature -- but after that was all straightened out, he discovered there was a lot more 'on the other side'.

Arguably, that was when his personality really started to change -- and it did, sometime in the 1960s. Now aware of what he was really up against (think of all the legions of Angry Ghosts in existence, and there are a lot of those!), he went into battle mode and took the 'Church' with him.

And, my personal opinion is that he made some bad decisions, and didn't handle it very well. But his research continued, and -- as I've said elsewhere, pretty much -- tens of thousands of others have benefited hugely because he was willing to do the trial-and-error experimental work on himself.

I went to this place where they do healing with the hands sending light into the person ... and they would sometimes find a person with 3rd degree burns all over them and while running the light the entity shows up that doesn't like the light and this person doing the light gets in communication and finds out that she is causing the burns because in the previous life she was set on fire by the person receiving the light ... so the person tries to get the them to forgive each other so the spirit attached to her would leave and start her life all over

I can't see the ghost but ... I don't invalidate it either

jim

[Sierra]

Sorry, not trying to find fault and I promise not to enter this discussion anymore... I would however like to point out that I've only been a member since 23rd August 2012... not quite the over two years that you state... anyway... carry on... I wont disrupt for thread any longer.

To Padme,

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59041-LRH--L.-Ron-Hubbard-&p=678093&viewfull=1#post678093

Sierra

[jiminii]

Thanks Bill,

For some reason I was under the impression he was supposed to be 'clear', are you saying he was not?

Many thanks, and this is an important question. The issue of 'Clear' is easily (and forgivably) misunderstood.

'Clear' is a technical term meaning (as a very loose summary) that you don't have any more engrams. See the 'Dianetics Picture Book', reposted below, for details. Hubbard's description in his early 1950 book 'Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health' was too optimistic in practice, though he was definitely aware of and striving for something real. 'Clear' does absolutely NOT mean that you're a perfect human being, or are not affected by other things.

Erasing all your engrams is a very valuable threshold to cross. But it's just a step along the way. It's not at all the end of the road. There's a LOT else in terms of unfinished business, accumulated through the millennia, that can drag one down and affect attitudes, beliefs, goals, behavior, your body, and just about everything else.

http://projectavalon.net/Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf
http://projectavalon.net/Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf

For various reasons too complex to go into here, after reaching 'Clear' as a threshold, one can then audit oneself rather than being dependent on another person to audit you. Although it's still nice, and sometimes easler, to talk to another person when figuring things out! But after 'Clear', 'solo auditing' becomes possible, and is encouraged.

One of the reasons why 'Clear' is not the end of the personal development road is that Planet Earth is absolutely crawling with entities of various kinds which stick to our souls and our bodies -- either directly, or attached at a kind of influencing distance. (All unsavory, but true.) There are two remedies for this:


Bolster ourselves up so that we are not affected by these external influences (and they are external, inasmuch as they are not within ourselves as beings).
Handle and free the entities that are focused on ourselves. (And, if we wish, we can free the entities that are focused on others. This is a kind of part of the Bodhisattva function. If we can help to liberate others, then some people choose to do so.)


Some people maintain that the entity situation on the planet isn't real, and hold a viewpoint of denial about this entire edifice of stuff -- the reality of which any shaman worth their salt over the last several thousand years knows a great deal about, and can confirm. The Buddhists know all about it, too: they call them "Angry Ghosts". It's a good term.

But if someone does deny it, the entities don't care. (Or in some cases, they'll be delighted!) They'll go after you anyway -- especially if you're trying to change things on this planet, and help out a little. Hundreds of Avalonians know this well.

Hubbard himself spent quite a number of years chasing down the subject of 'Clear' - and famously made one or two wrong turns, and announcements that were too premature -- but after that was all straightened out, he discovered there was a lot more 'on the other side'.

Arguably, that was when his personality really started to change -- and it did, sometime in the 1960s. Now aware of what he was really up against (think of all the legions of Angry Ghosts in existence, and there are a lot of those!), he went into battle mode and took the 'Church' with him.

And, my personal opinion is that he made some bad decisions, and didn't handle it very well. But his research continued, and -- as I've said elsewhere, pretty much -- tens of thousands of others have benefited hugely because he was willing to do the trial-and-error experimental work on himself.

Thanks for your response Bill. I just had a personal aha moment :) . What I get is that LRH went as far as he could with his technology....but he was missing a key ingredient in the return to wholeness...HEART. Humility, compassion and the ability to let go and be, reside in the heart. I have found that when I allow myself to drop into my heart I feel connected to something much bigger than myself; in this space I no longer feel the need to push, to control, to be important, to dominate.

Perhaps this is what Jiminii is missing as well. There is a child-like beauty to Jiminii (as Christine pointed out), but there is also a sense of being lost and somewhat confused (hi Jiminii love to you).

Unfortunately, or really probably more likely fortunately :) , I do not think that heart connection is something that can be achieved through technology. I believe it starts from cultivating and nurturing a deep sense of love for oneself (not egotistical love, but real love accepting all...the good and the bad), and from there can extend out to everyone and everything.

the auditor is trained to be interested in the client ... called PC pre clear ... without interest the person being audited will not get interested in his case as much
we are giving a communication course where we have to confront another person 3 feet in front of us ... without reacting to anything ... like laughing and moving lips .. anything that is not just BEING THERE is flunked and you have to start again ... we have to do this for 2 hours ... then we do another 2 hours called bullbait ... means we try to push any button we can to get a reaction ... make them angry sad laugh anything ... when the person can be there bullbaited for 2 hours he passes\
then we have do do each part of a communication cycle ... ask a question and get the PC to answer .. if he does anything but not answer the question .. he repeats the question ... if the PC answers the question then he acknowledges by saying "thank you" .. we have to do about 4 steps to learn how to do a communication cycle that doesn't ARC break the PC .. ARC means affinity reality communication ... if you ARC break someone you have a break in affinity or reality or communication ,. for example .. a wife talks to her husband but he never acknowledges her .. so she never thinks he is listening to her ... so she gets more and more angry because she feels he is ignoring her .. things like this happen when you don't do the communication cycle the right way

now if someone communicates with you and says something that upsets you ... then NO communication happens .. so we call this confront each other .. a kind of flattening all the buttons so you can communicate about anything to anyone ..

now when you have someone sitting back in an incident you are trying to run out ... and he is in the battle with nepolian and he's sitting there right in the battle and you see him all so emotional you can not react to this and go off and do something else .. you must confront it so he can get through the engram ...

hope this better explains what it takes to be an auditor

jim

[jiminii]

Jiminii said "in the last few days I have experience auditing coming from somewhere ."

Jiminii who was auditing you? Was this a channelling experience? Meaning, was this a physical person or an entity from another dimension, or off planet, or a voice in your head?

What is base 2 auditing? Thanks.

I get the idea that he is auditing himself from base 2 ... this means that he is auditing his other timelines now where ever base 2 is in the time track maybe 300 years after now, in the spirit world there is no time ... so he is 300 years ahead of me in a different part of this 3d movie ... but the spirit being is in the same time we are now .. so he can communicate to me directly ... try to get the concept that there is 20 spirits that have created this aquarium out of nothing ... but they are not inside the aquarium .. they are outside it creating it ... then these spirits create a viewpoint to go inside the aquarium they created to see what is going on .. it could be the viewpoint without a body or a viewpoint running a body from outside the body the natural way or someone has trapped the viewpoint inside the body .... with only the memories of the body created from birth not the memories of the viewpoint before he got trapped in the body (fish) in this example
so he audits something and at night I look up there through something and this all started when I was working at FSO flag service org ... LRH was getting into communication to blow any upset I had .... it would blow blow blow .. and then the upset was that I couldn't use an emotion to dramatize my upset .. I came to PT present time and said, "Ron are you here?" ... ok so I look through this same communication through space of some kind and all these pictures start to blow in me and I get huge body reactions of emotions blowing off and huge long exaggerated yawns ... so I know he is auditing me and sometimes he would do this in the day when I was working on something and it made it dangerous for me ... so now he waits or picks up when I want to communicate with him and he responds to the communication ..

that is kinda how I see it

jim

[jiminii]

Wheatstone was an Aetherist.

Quick notes on duplication of a functional circuit. And best use, as a quick analysis on potential issues.

Do not use any permeable materials in it's construction. Keep all circuitry away from any metals of any kind. (secondary effects).

Check to see if any of the components, including the meter have permeable metals in their construction...use a small neodymium magnet to accomplish this. If you find steel, do not use that component.

Your dilemma is that the meter will be the biggest fault in that chain, the meter using spring steel for the needle position mechanism. do your best to find batteries that are non-magnetic. Use batteries. Don't use plug in devices, except for charging batteries. Do not operate it on a metal table, for example.

I can probably make a decent meter. I've got some tricks....

you can download a meter to run on the PC from free zone

jim

[sdafnom]

I don't know if this is in anyway helpful, but there is a great deal of correlation between LRH teachings and the esoteric teachings of the ancient mystery schools.

There is also a specific reason why LRH insisted on "In studying Dianetics and Scientology be very, very certain you never go past a word you do not fully understand". Words reveal their power only when, the one who speaks them, fully understands their full meaning both in the etymological but also in their symbolic aspect.

1. Thetan comes from greek lettere theta .. that means thought or spirit .. the closest thing we can relate to is thought

The greek letter theta "Θ" was original written like this "⊕" a circle with a cross in it. This symbol is well known as the symbol of creation. It is also the symbol for the Orphic egg, where it encompasses all of creation both physical and spiritual planes. Being the 9th letter of the alphabet (originally) denotes the 9 universal laws that govern all of creation, in which everything manifested (matter and spirit) must obey. The masonic symbols of Square and Compass also denote the tools for creation or the letter Theta.
9 is also the number of Hermes, who in his dual property a) is the messenger from Gods to Human and v.v. and b) is the guide of the soul between the incarnated and the spiritual world.

2. scientology (literally: "the science of knowing how to know")
It comes from the Latin SCIO and the Greek LOGOS.
Science in Greek is called "ΕΠΙΣΤΗΜΗ"
In its esoteric sense it means that faith has transformed into internal knowingness

Ε - ΠΙΣΤΗ - ΜΗ.

E(ν) meaning eso - internal - inside
ΠΙΣΤΗ - loosely translated "faith", what i fell or believe without scientific evidence - the internal but not yet mental belief
ΜΗ - means I in the broader sense, not just the EGO part.

LOGOS - ΛΟΓΟΣ in the most esoteric sense, the ineffable (word) principle. It denotes the "starting point" from which everything spawn (both spiritual and material).

So in "the science of knowing how to know" we must add, what is that we seek to know, and that is the creation itself. Only then we are restored to our original capacity.

The path from total ignorance (slavery) to apotheosis (fully functioning spirit) can be easily seen in Plato's cave allegory, in very specific steps. I am sure that LRH understood those steps in the highest degree. (I can post a comparison of those later, if anyone is interested)

3. DIA-NETICS from DIA NOUS and means no more and no less than through mind.

NOUS - Greek ΝΟΥΣ, it is translated, "the mind" but this is only part of its meaning. NOUS is the ability to think, to be self aware, consciousness, to access your memories both local (incarnated) and remote (past) etc. It is a three-fold link between body - soul - spirit.

On the other hand DIA - ΔΙΑ - ΔΙΑΣ is the other name for Zeus ΖΕΥΣ.
DIAS is used within the created universe and Zeus as the state above that.

In short DIANETICS means to gain or to achieve the Mind of Zeus, God of Gods -> the true free state of the spirit.

4. Man - Anthropos ΑΝΘΡΩΠΟΣ.
Any descent dictionary will tell you that Anthropos means he/she who looks up, denoting that man, for some forgotten reason, always looks up in the heavens.
The hidden part is that, in the esoteric teachings, Anthropos truly means he who has the ability to regain his memories.
This is very very very important. Only when you remember, you can remove the obstacles and become whole.

For those who watch DaVinci's Demons, there is a phrase used by the sons of Mithra, to recognize each other "I am a son of earth and starry heaven... Give me something to drink from the fountain of memory."

Although this is much much older than the Mithraic mysteries (from Orphic Mysteries - instructions for the departed to afterworld), the message is clear: Only if you retain (or regain) your memories you will become whole.

I believe if anyone carefully studies the teachings of LRH, he will reveal a lot of ancient knowledge that was hidden for i don't know how long... And I intend to study it.


Keep up the great work.

Stavros

[bram]

I would like to thank Bill for posting this book, which has been a revelation to me. Having just completed reading the book, I would like to share some of my views, so here goes.

There is a Great Truth contained in this book, namely the truth of the existence of engrams. It was intuitively clear to me as I read the book that my own timeline contains areas of occlusion, and areas where my views and opinions are founded on very faulty logic and prejudices. Without attempting to investigate my past (until I have read ‘Self-Clearing’, by The Pilot) I can already see that my faculties are impeded, despite my best attempts to date at improved self-awareness. So I am enthusiastic about Dianetics. At the same time, however, the book raises a number of fundamental questions; first and foremost is the question of past lives.

At the time of publication, Ron Hubbard stated that the timeline begins at conception. Therefore, no engrams could exist prior to this. At the same time the book gives the impression that there are large numbers of clears in his organization, and defines clears as people who have no remaining engrams (i.e., they are clear of engrams). Later, and I have so far found only sketchy details about how this change came about, it was revealed that engrams exist from past lives. As a Buddhist, I have no personal problem with this concept, however it troubles me that he could have been so wrong. This means that the people around him, who he stated were clear, were in fact not clear, because they had remaining engrams from past lives. How could he have missed this?

Engrams appear to be closely linked to karma, as it is understood by Buddhists. They are not the same thing, because if they were, a Clear would also be an Arahant (a realized being) which they are not. However, they are a step closer to being realized because they have rid themselves of a whole series of errors (budd: unskillful behaviours), which are causing them to repeatedly generate karma. So, a Clear is not an Arahant, but an Arahant must be (among other things) Clear.

Karma literally means actions, and is taken to represent the universal law of cause and effect, or as JC put it ‘as you sow, so shall you reap’. However, there is also the concept of the karmic seed, where the actions have effects which lay dormant for a long time (years or up to several lifetimes) until the conditions for their ripening are in place; then these karmic seeds sprout. This particular aspect of karma sounds very similar to the action of the engram.

The struggle with which Buddhists are involved is the struggle to be mindful at all times. Whilst this is possible it is also difficult to maintain mindfulness throughout the day, and the concept of the engram gives a perfect explanation of why this is so. If the Analyzer is not in control under certain circumstances, it is not therefore possible to maintain mindfulness, and our spiritual discipline collapses as the reactive mind takes over.

Now, if we accept that we have engrams from past lives, this leads to a further two possibilities: either:

(a) that we have a ‘soul’ which continues in this body from life to life, taking with it the results of actions performed in previous lives which may be called karma, including engrams, further adding to this karma by our actions in our current life, or
(b) that our engrams are passed to us genetically by our parents in cellular form in the zygote. Given what we now know about genetics, and cellular awareness, this is also very plausible. However, it means we will inherit engrams from both parents, and they will have inherited engrams from our 4 grandparents, who will have inherited engrams from our 8 great-grandparents and so on. Therefore, taking the average age for giving birth at 25, a new born baby now will inherit engrams from some 16 people in the last 100 years alone. We will also share engrams with thousands of our relatives- a good reason to avoid interbreeding!! Therefore either (i) our engram load is increasing continuously and has done so for thousands (millions?) of years, placing us in possession of millions of unresolved engrams, or (ii) engrams have a finite life, and tend to fade with the passage of time.

According to Buddhism, the only thing which passes from birth through death to rebirth, is our karma. Buddhism cannot confirm (or deny) the existence of a ‘soul’ or any other entity which is not empty of form. Yet clearly, something continues. If this is our karma then an individual who is cleared would now be in advantageous position in that she could now be mindful 24 hours a day, in all situations, and therefore would be able to live without generating karma through her aberrated actions. Therefore, Clearing is a big step forward spiritually, and one which is entirely compatible with Buddhism, or any other spiritual way.

These are just my thoughts on concluding the book Dianetics. I am sharing them in the hope that someone who is further along this path might have some related wisdom to share back. I also have some other queries I would like to share (later) relating to:
1. Inheriting engrams from people who speak different languages;
2. Awareness attained under the effects of psychedelic drugs, which is not unconscious, but is unattainable in our normal states of consciousness;
3. Partial consciousness, and how this operates- sharing of consciousness between the analyzer and the reactive mind;
4. The pros and cons of self clearing, as opposed to using an auditor.

Love, bram

[Christine]

Thanks for your response Bill. I just had a personal aha moment :) . What I get is that LRH went as far as he could with his technology....but he was missing a key ingredient in the return to wholeness...HEART. Humility, compassion and the ability to let go and be, reside in the heart. I have found that when I allow myself to drop into my heart I feel connected to something much bigger than myself; in this space I no longer feel the need to push, to control, to be important, to dominate.

Perhaps this is what Jiminii is missing as well. There is a child-like beauty to Jiminii (as Christine pointed out), but there is also a sense of being lost and somewhat confused (hi Jiminii love to you).

Unfortunately, or really probably more likely fortunately :) , I do not think that heart connection is something that can be achieved through technology. I believe it starts from cultivating and nurturing a deep sense of love for oneself (not egotistical love, but real love accepting all...the good and the bad), and from there can extend out to everyone and everything.

Hi enfoldedblue,

Thank you for the honest transparency of your words. I know that when we speak from true self, from HEART we are connecting. I feel the same way you do about heart and humility. I am aware of three perceiving and receiving centers in my body, they reside in my mind, my heart and my solar plexus (body). When I am in harmony with these three identities of self then I am in flow, right flow, acting and speaking harmoniously with myself and my environment.

I just want to add a small bit of my own experiential data and this happen just two days ago.

I have had the acquaintance of a highly trained tech auditor for the past year and a half. Overcoming my own distaste for Scientology, the word technology and all the jargon that accompanies the subject I permitted myself to a few sessions. I still cringe at the word tech - maybe in the 1950's it sounded better than it does now.

Any way my experience: I was looking at a problem that I was having with another person, I was aware that this wasn't a simple misunderstanding that something very deep was blocking my flow and was creating distrust in my living environment. Where I was went in my session was so far out that I will leave the details out, it is the result that counts. What happen was that I encountered an enormous being which I worked at freeing. On being set free my heart filled with the most beautiful golden light... warmth flowed through my whole being. My personal realization, or cognition was that it is that little by little through out our present time paradigm the heart energy has been captured, locked up and used to our own detriment, just as much as the mind. When the two are set free then I believe we will finally and fully return to our True Self.

We just so often get locked into one aspect of our BEing at the expense of the other. The integration of Self is a journey... we are well on it. :)

P.S. The person that I know is so tech oriented that you would think that they don't have a heart, until you see this amazing playful being come out from time to time. Similar to jiminii for sure!

Personally I feel jiminii's heart energy burning so strong. His posts make me laugh and smile, nothing wrong with that.

With heart,
Christine

[Camilo]

Bill, thank you so much for all the information shared here, it's very much appreciated.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

------

A little more in answer to seko above:



One can also do sessions with a distant auditor over Skype. (The meter can be with either person.)
When solo auditing, unless one is very experienced or highly qualified, one does need guidance on what to audit (i.e. what question-and-answer processes to 'run') from someone who is qualified and experienced and who understands what you're wanting to address.



Are there theories that may explain how "The meter can be with either person." when the auditor may be far away during a Skype conversation?

[soleil]

Do you remember what was said about the wrong vs right way to operate the chakras? I'd be grateful if you could just say a few words about it!

I think he said ... running them up or down ... I think he said you should run them up... not sure .. but running them down would do the opposite

so that would be confusing ... wouldn't it ... I can try to google it
I don't remember what book it was in ...


jim

im fairly new but ive been researching chakras, and via the book 'the wheel of life' by anodea (forget last name). if you go top down you can overcharge your chakras and cause imbalance.
if you charge upwards, from the bottom, therefore by reaching and filling your solar plexus chakra the overflow then can flow upwards in balance.

[Bill Ryan]

------

A little more in answer to seko above:


One can also do sessions with a distant auditor over Skype. (The meter can be with either person.)
When solo auditing, unless one is very experienced or highly qualified, one does need guidance on what to audit (i.e. what question-and-answer processes to 'run') from someone who is qualified and experienced and who understands what you're wanting to address.



Are there theories that may explain how "The meter can be with either person." when the auditor may be far away during a Skype conversation?

Yes -- although only esoteric ones! But those reading this may understand.

The distant auditor (or specifically, their body) gets in 'resonance' with the client, and therefore is able to manifest the same reads on the meter at their end.

But clearly, to do this, the auditor needs to be in significantly good shape, so that nothing of their own is reading at all, which would of course interfere and give false indications.

[Bill Ryan]

you can download a meter to run on the PC from free zone


Translation: :)

Here Jim means a 'virtual' meter, that runs on a computer screen on Windows.

http://freezoneearth.org/allmeters

(Never tried or used, it, as I have a Mac.)

[jiminii]

Do you remember what was said about the wrong vs right way to operate the chakras? I'd be grateful if you could just say a few words about it!

I think he said ... running them up or down ... I think he said you should run them up... not sure .. but running them down would do the opposite

so that would be confusing ... wouldn't it ... I can try to google it
I don't remember what book it was in ...


jim

im fairly new but ive been researching chakras, and via the book 'the wheel of life' by anodea (forget last name). if you go top down you can overcharge your chakras and cause imbalance.
if you charge upwards, from the bottom, therefore by reaching and filling your solar plexus chakra the overflow then can flow upwards in balance.

you got it

jim

[iNtrPrsnL aLcHmSt --0-o--]

I was reading about IBM's Watson that won on Jeopardy! not too long ago.

It crossed my mind whether a computer could be programmed to conduct the auditing process. From my understanding Hubbard's directions are pretty formulated and strict in their application. If someone with sufficient knowledge of programming and the clearing processes worked together, perhaps an internet site could be developed where people could be automatically audited?

Or perhaps I've underestimated the human element that's required to conduct the auditing? Just a thought, figured I'd throw it out there.

I hope everyone is doing well this day! : )

[hohoemi]

[..cut..]
Now, if we accept that we have engrams from past lives, this leads to a further two possibilities: either:

(a) that we have a ‘soul’ which continues in this body from life to life, taking with it the results of actions performed in previous lives which may be called karma, including engrams, further adding to this karma by our actions in our current life, or
(b) that our engrams are passed to us genetically by our parents in cellular form in the zygote. [..cut..] Therefore either (i) our engram load is increasing continuously and has done so for thousands (millions?) of years, placing us in possession of millions of unresolved engrams, or (ii) engrams have a finite life, and tend to fade with the passage of time.
[..cut..]


Hi Bram,

I don't know about Scientology, but your question reminded me of Holographic Kinetics by Steve Richards (discussed elsewhere on the forum), so here's his answer in case your interested in correlating different practices:

If they are talking about the same thing - in HK you among other things also look at issues that caused pain in this/past lives and blow that of your timeline - the engrams would come BOTH:
- from your own soul/spirit timeline indefinitley, and
- from your ancestors down to the seventh generation. (At least when I did a session only issues up to 7 generations down the timeline were considered, so I think that's it). No idea where that cut-off time comes from though :)

Thanks for your thought-provoking questions, I never considered how these things might multiply if there was no cut-off date... I hope HK is right and there IS a cut-off date, otherwise the accummulation would be astronomical.

[Bill Ryan]

I was reading about IBM's Watson that won on Jeopardy! not too long ago.

It crossed my mind whether a computer could be programmed to conduct the auditing process. From my understanding Hubbard's directions are pretty formulated and strict in their application. If someone with sufficient knowledge of programming and the clearing processes worked together, perhaps an internet site could be developed where people could be automatically audited?

Or perhaps I've underestimated the human element that's required to conduct the auditing? Just a thought, figured I'd throw it out there.

I hope everyone is doing well this day! : )

Yes, this is possible, and I know someone who experimented with that (writing a simple program) to run a particular process. I believe (Paul? Carmody?) in geek-speak this is called "an Expert Program". Computer training programs, that offer feedback on your answer, and then guide you to the next step (all a simple tree diagram in the software), are an example.

I'd see the use of this as a simple guidance template to help keep you (the 'client') on track with the process you're running. You could have a text message, or even a voice, that you would trigger by pressing <Enter>, and then it'd say [something like]:

THANK YOU. HAS THE INCIDENT ERASED?

(response: NO)

OKAY. DOES IT SEEM TO BE GETTING LIGHTER?

(response: YES)

GOOD. GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF THE INCIDENT, JUST BEFORE YOU REALIZED SOMETHING WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, AND RUN IT THROUGH ONE MORE TIME TO THE END. THEN LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU'RE THERE BY PRESSING <ENTER> AGAIN.

(etc, etc)

[jiminii]

I was reading about IBM's Watson that won on Jeopardy! not too long ago.

It crossed my mind whether a computer could be programmed to conduct the auditing process. From my understanding Hubbard's directions are pretty formulated and strict in their application. If someone with sufficient knowledge of programming and the clearing processes worked together, perhaps an internet site could be developed where people could be automatically audited?

Or perhaps I've underestimated the human element that's required to conduct the auditing? Just a thought, figured I'd throw it out there.

I hope everyone is doing well this day! : )

you need a communication cycle to do this .. the Pre Clear needs an acknowledgement and what are you going to do when he is sitting there in an incident where he is in freezing water where the ice broke and he's desperately trying to get out ... and tries to blow the session ... means run away before he completes the session ... you need an auditor to hold him and prevent him from leaving the session while you keep in your attention on him so you can get him through the incident

when he gets to clear he can solo audit by himself

jim

[jiminii]

I was reading about IBM's Watson that won on Jeopardy! not too long ago.

It crossed my mind whether a computer could be programmed to conduct the auditing process. From my understanding Hubbard's directions are pretty formulated and strict in their application. If someone with sufficient knowledge of programming and the clearing processes worked together, perhaps an internet site could be developed where people could be automatically audited?

Or perhaps I've underestimated the human element that's required to conduct the auditing? Just a thought, figured I'd throw it out there.

I hope everyone is doing well this day! : )

Yes, this is possible, and I know someone who experimented with that (writing a simple program) to run a particular process. I believe (Paul? Carmody?) in geek-speak this is called "an Expert Program". Computer training programs, that offer feedback on your answer, and then guide you to the next step (all a simple tree diagram in the software), are an example.

I'd see the use of this as a simple guidance template to help keep you (the 'client') on track with the process you're running. You could have a text message, or even a voice, that you would trigger by pressing <Enter>, and then it'd say [something like]:

THANK YOU. HAS THE INCIDENT ERASED?

(response: NO)

OKAY. DOES IT SEEM TO BE GETTING LIGHTER?

(response: YES)

GOOD. GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF THE INCIDENT, JUST BEFORE YOU REALIZED SOMETHING WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, AND RUN IT THROUGH ONE MORE TIME TO THE END. THEN LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU'RE THERE BY PRESSING <ENTER> AGAIN.

(etc, etc)

sorry bill .. I didn't know that ... I guess you can test it out ... and have some way to keep the PC in session

jim

[gripreaper]

The greatest "meter" is when, your senses are more acute, the world is brighter, more colorful and clear, taste is magnified, sight is fully focused, hearing is intensified, feeling is awesome, sex is better, your skin is softer, hair is richer, sleep is restful and you need less of it...and the mind is clearer as the synapses actually rewire themselves, hormones rebalance, insights flood the mind, old beliefs disappear and are transmuted, destructive habits disappear, the ego vanishes, compassion and empathy arises, the subtle psychic senses arise and are noticed...

AND this is just by clearing the first chakra survival issues! Just think how great it would be to be a fully charged and electrified soul in a body...travel into the etheric and astral any time you want, see anything in your minds eye, think a thought and actually create it right in front of you?

This is all possible.

[Bill Ryan]

[..cut..]
Now, if we accept that we have engrams from past lives, this leads to a further two possibilities: either:

(a) that we have a ‘soul’ which continues in this body from life to life, taking with it the results of actions performed in previous lives which may be called karma, including engrams, further adding to this karma by our actions in our current life, or
(b) that our engrams are passed to us genetically by our parents in cellular form in the zygote. [..cut..] Therefore either (i) our engram load is increasing continuously and has done so for thousands (millions?) of years, placing us in possession of millions of unresolved engrams, or (ii) engrams have a finite life, and tend to fade with the passage of time.
[..cut..]


Hi Bram,

I don't know about Scientology, but your question reminded me of Holographic Kinetics by Steve Richards (discussed elsewhere on the forum), so here's his answer in case your interested in correlating different practices:

If they are talking about the same thing - in HK you among other things also look at issues that caused pain in this/past lives and blow that of your timeline - the engrams would come BOTH:
- from your own soul/spirit timeline indefinitley, and
- from your ancestors down to the seventh generation. (At least when I did a session only issues up to 7 generations down the timeline were considered, so I think that's it). No idea where that cut-off time comes from though :)

Thanks for your thought-provoking questions, I never considered how these things might multiply if there was no cut-off date... I hope HK is right and there IS a cut-off date, otherwise the accummulation would be astronomical.


From what I understand, the part of Holographic Kinetics that works is all based on Dianetics, repackaged in a slightly different format.

[jiminii]

The greatest "meter" is when, your senses are more acute, the world is brighter, more colorful and clear, taste is magnified, sight is fully focused, hearing is intensified, feeling is awesome, sex is better, your skin is softer, hair is richer, sleep is restful and you need less of it...and the mind is clearer as the synapses actually rewire themselves, hormones rebalance, insights flood the mind, old beliefs disappear and are transmuted, destructive habits disappear, the ego vanishes, compassion and empathy arises, the subtle psychic senses arise and are noticed...

AND this is just by clearing the first chakra survival issues! Just think how great it would be to be a fully charged and electrified soul in a body...travel into the etheric and astral any time you want, see anything in your minds eye, think a thought and actually create it right in front of you?

This is all possible.

yes I was just starting to read about chakras but ... I ended up here ,,, would be nice to align them and get out of the body so I can see what I am doing

jim

[Limor Wolf]

you can download a meter to run on the PC from free zone


Translation: :)

Here Jim means a 'virtual' meter, that runs on a computer screen on Windows.

http://freezoneearth.org/allmeters

(Never tried or used, it, as I have a Mac.)

Hi Bill, I might be wrong, but all I am seeing is E-meters for sale. Am I missing something?

[Camilo]

The bottom of my post is a smaller edited copy and paste of the threads I have been reading in the LRH (L. Ron Hubbard) thread. To keep it quick and to the point I copied and pasted the more unbelievable ideas that have caused me to not be able to fully embrace the message. UNFORTUNATELY, the message is so far out from my paradigm that I can't understand the message "JIM" is sharing.

It appears others more familiar and learned in this subject find the "Jim" message as not too far out and are able to tolerate the sometimes jumbled message. Also, the numerous use of acronyms and insider slang has made it difficult to understand for begginers in the subject. I think it is unfortunate many on Avalon seem to not be able to see that the tools in Scientology can be beneficial, it seems as though many can not differentiate the Church/Religion/Cult with the tools. How can we not think bieng "Clear" is not a good thing for all people. From Wiki-- Clear in Dianetics and Scientology is one of two levels a practitioner can achieve on the way to personal salvation. A state of Clear is reached when a person becomes free of the influence of engrams, unwanted emotions or painful traumas not readily available to the conscious mind. Scientologists believe that human beings accumulate anxieties, psychosomatic illnesses, and aberration due to receiving engrams throughout their lives. By applying dianetics, every single person can reach Clear....Sounds good to me, I want to be clear.

It would help me greatly if we can have links to websites that can teach the tools, suggestions of books to read, websites to visit, youtube videos to watch, etc And perhaps the most beneficial thing is to condense all this info into one post as you did so well with the "Essential reading for all Avalonians post". It would be a good way to allow interested people to have access to the benefits and in a way weed through all the noise. Thanks again to you and all the Mods and fellow Avalonian members who keep this forum moving along.



80 trillion years ago there was a group of people call the peace bringers ... they were so powerful that everywhere they went they brought peace .. There was another group that were war mongers ... and they were a bit of trouble but the peace bringers thought that could train them and maybe they would change to the better ... but these war mongers decided to infiltrate and steal the tech and use is to try to take over the system ... and many wars happened


We are on a prison planet ... it took them billions of years to create this ... NO ONE ESCAPES from a prison planet ... NO ONE until Siddhartha Gautama Buddha did 2500 years ago ... any religion that tells you that you have no power and only god has power and any other power is the devil will never get you off this planet
it takes a being with a lot of power to get off this planet ... and giving all your power to a god that someone says exists isn't going to get you off the planet.

these are control religions ... I went back to see Christ on the Cross .. and started running the session myself using the class 8 auditor and her meter to do it.

I got back there ... Christ looked like he was in a very lot of pain ... I decided to go inside his body and see what was happening and a force a very big force was hitting me when I was in his body .. it was too much and I could not stay inside the body .. I got out and I saw a huge oval of gold light in front of him ... I thought he was making it .... I followed the light into the sky and it was a UFO ... and that UFO was hitting Christ with some kind of beam ... and it was flooding the crowd with pictures to create a future dark age ... I yelled ... it was a trick ... it was a trick ... it was a trick ...


by the way ... the force fields that trapped us to this planet have been removed ... by the andromedians . ... if you die this time you can go home ... where ;ever that was .... so future?? ... i am staying here ... this place will be the new beginning for the entire universe and when it is safe for them to come down they will teach us and we will be new light of this universe ... why because we were the gods they sent here and to them we are still looked at as royalty and they are trying to free us

Thanks for putting it as clear as you did. Many of us are on the same page as you are.

[jiminii]

[..cut..]
Now, if we accept that we have engrams from past lives, this leads to a further two possibilities: either:

(a) that we have a ‘soul’ which continues in this body from life to life, taking with it the results of actions performed in previous lives which may be called karma, including engrams, further adding to this karma by our actions in our current life, or
(b) that our engrams are passed to us genetically by our parents in cellular form in the zygote. [..cut..] Therefore either (i) our engram load is increasing continuously and has done so for thousands (millions?) of years, placing us in possession of millions of unresolved engrams, or (ii) engrams have a finite life, and tend to fade with the passage of time.
[..cut..]


Hi Bram,

I don't know about Scientology, but your question reminded me of Holographic Kinetics by Steve Richards (discussed elsewhere on the forum), so here's his answer in case your interested in correlating different practices:

If they are talking about the same thing - in HK you among other things also look at issues that caused pain in this/past lives and blow that of your timeline - the engrams would come BOTH:
- from your own soul/spirit timeline indefinitley, and
- from your ancestors down to the seventh generation. (At least when I did a session only issues up to 7 generations down the timeline were considered, so I think that's it). No idea where that cut-off time comes from though :)

Thanks for your thought-provoking questions, I never considered how these things might multiply if there was no cut-off date... I hope HK is right and there IS a cut-off date, otherwise the accummulation would be astronomical.


From what I understand, the part of Holographic Kinetics that works is all based on Dianetics, repackaged in a slightly different format.

if you are a natural clear you don't have engrams
if you do then you acquired them in this lifetime .and it would be the GE that would have recorded them .. natural clears don't record pictures, they just KNOW .... means you are a star child from the future with no automatic record mechanism ... you need a recording mechanism attached to the viewpoint (thetan the I AM that runs the body) to store engrams ... the only thing that can hit you from the past is pictures you recorded ... if you don't have these pictures they can't effect your life

jim

[jiminii]

The bottom of my post is a smaller edited copy and paste of the threads I have been reading in the LRH (L. Ron Hubbard) thread. To keep it quick and to the point I copied and pasted the more unbelievable ideas that have caused me to not be able to fully embrace the message. UNFORTUNATELY, the message is so far out from my paradigm that I can't understand the message "JIM" is sharing.

It appears others more familiar and learned in this subject find the "Jim" message as not too far out and are able to tolerate the sometimes jumbled message. Also, the numerous use of acronyms and insider slang has made it difficult to understand for begginers in the subject. I think it is unfortunate many on Avalon seem to not be able to see that the tools in Scientology can be beneficial, it seems as though many can not differentiate the Church/Religion/Cult with the tools. How can we not think bieng "Clear" is not a good thing for all people. From Wiki-- Clear in Dianetics and Scientology is one of two levels a practitioner can achieve on the way to personal salvation. A state of Clear is reached when a person becomes free of the influence of engrams, unwanted emotions or painful traumas not readily available to the conscious mind. Scientologists believe that human beings accumulate anxieties, psychosomatic illnesses, and aberration due to receiving engrams throughout their lives. By applying dianetics, every single person can reach Clear....Sounds good to me, I want to be clear.

It would help me greatly if we can have links to websites that can teach the tools, suggestions of books to read, websites to visit, youtube videos to watch, etc And perhaps the most beneficial thing is to condense all this info into one post as you did so well with the "Essential reading for all Avalonians post". It would be a good way to allow interested people to have access to the benefits and in a way weed through all the noise. Thanks again to you and all the Mods and fellow Avalonian members who keep this forum moving along.



80 trillion years ago there was a group of people call the peace bringers ... they were so powerful that everywhere they went they brought peace .. There was another group that were war mongers ... and they were a bit of trouble but the peace bringers thought that could train them and maybe they would change to the better ... but these war mongers decided to infiltrate and steal the tech and use is to try to take over the system ... and many wars happened


We are on a prison planet ... it took them billions of years to create this ... NO ONE ESCAPES from a prison planet ... NO ONE until Siddhartha Gautama Buddha did 2500 years ago ... any religion that tells you that you have no power and only god has power and any other power is the devil will never get you off this planet
it takes a being with a lot of power to get off this planet ... and giving all your power to a god that someone says exists isn't going to get you off the planet.

these are control religions ... I went back to see Christ on the Cross .. and started running the session myself using the class 8 auditor and her meter to do it.

I got back there ... Christ looked like he was in a very lot of pain ... I decided to go inside his body and see what was happening and a force a very big force was hitting me when I was in his body .. it was too much and I could not stay inside the body .. I got out and I saw a huge oval of gold light in front of him ... I thought he was making it .... I followed the light into the sky and it was a UFO ... and that UFO was hitting Christ with some kind of beam ... and it was flooding the crowd with pictures to create a future dark age ... I yelled ... it was a trick ... it was a trick ... it was a trick ...


by the way ... the force fields that trapped us to this planet have been removed ... by the andromedians . ... if you die this time you can go home ... where ;ever that was .... so future?? ... i am staying here ... this place will be the new beginning for the entire universe and when it is safe for them to come down they will teach us and we will be new light of this universe ... why because we were the gods they sent here and to them we are still looked at as royalty and they are trying to free us

Thanks for putting it as clear as you did. Many of us are on the same page as you are.

actually I would like to clean up all my post too ... there are so many ... if I can collect them into one .. but then the answering of questions but going through my whole track isn't going to answer all the questions .. it will give it all but really not all ... i already saw that from the questions .. telling a history doesn't answer all the questions ... but if we came up with a list of questions that are already asked .. then I can go through all of them at a time and clean it up ,,, I see you people know how to get parts out of the post and not the whole post ... but I don't know how to do that yet

need someone to teach me ... let the site keep going while I learn it ., and only answer the most important posts

jim

[soleil]

hi jim and bill, i have finally caught up on this thread, and read the first dianetics picture book. so far i have nothing to add, except now i have a name for what i've been learning to do, both by TraineeHuman/FineFeather (here in PA), by meditating, and by just knowing.

jim, you've mentioned just knowing. is there more to it from your perspective?
also, can you share how you've come to make headaches go away? was that natural intuitive healing?
one more thing. how does one know there is an impulse of a being in them? (as you had written about yourself)...is there a specific feeling where you know it is not your soul conciousness, and it is an entity?

i must add, i havent yet caught up on your other thread or viveks threads that are similar. i suppose i'll be busy for a while catching up, now that im slowly understanding concepts and how these are all connected.

im truly interested in engrams. ive removed a few, without knowing what i was doing. last summer. :) very cool so far.
thanks to all who are participating!

[Hervé]

[...]

At the time of publication, Ron Hubbard stated that the timeline begins at conception. Therefore, no engrams could exist prior to this. At the same time the book gives the impression that there are large numbers of clears in his organization, and defines clears as people who have no remaining engrams (i.e., they are clear of engrams). Later, and I have so far found only sketchy details about how this change came about, it was revealed that engrams exist from past lives. [...]

Love, bram

LRH was put pressure on to leave out past lives from the Dianetics data and procedure as being "too far out." His only regret about the book.

It is still "too far out" for a large portion of the population as reflected by the debates happening on this forum with the threads dealing with re-incarnation.

[jiminii]

[...]

At the time of publication, Ron Hubbard stated that the timeline begins at conception. Therefore, no engrams could exist prior to this. At the same time the book gives the impression that there are large numbers of clears in his organization, and defines clears as people who have no remaining engrams (i.e., they are clear of engrams). Later, and I have so far found only sketchy details about how this change came about, it was revealed that engrams exist from past lives. [...]

Love, bram

LRH was put pressure on to leave out past lives from the Dianetics data and procedure as being "too far out." His only regret about the book.

It is still "too far out" for a large portion of the population as reflected by the debates happening on this forum with the threads dealing with re-incarnation.

I never read that part ... the part I read was that if running past lives removed the engram than run the past lives

jim

[Hervé]

[...]

LRH was put pressure on to leave out past lives from the Dianetics data and procedure as being "too far out." His only regret about the book.

It is still "too far out" for a large portion of the population as reflected by the debates happening on this forum with the threads dealing with re-incarnation.

I never read that part ... the part I read was that if running past lives removed the engram than run the past lives

jim

The pressure was from his fellow "medicos" at the Foundation, like Dr. Winter...

[jiminii]

hi jim and bill, i have finally caught up on this thread, and read the first dianetics picture book. so far i have nothing to add, except now i have a name for what i've been learning to do, both by TraineeHuman/FineFeather (here in PA), by meditating, and by just knowing.

jim, you've mentioned just knowing. is there more to it from your perspective?
also, can you share how you've come to make headaches go away? was that natural intuitive healing?
one more thing. how does one know there is an impulse of a being in them? (as you had written about yourself)...is there a specific feeling where you know it is not your soul conciousness, and it is an entity?

i must add, i havent yet caught up on your other thread or viveks threads that are similar. i suppose i'll be busy for a while catching up, now that im slowly understanding concepts and how these are all connected.

im truly interested in engrams. ive removed a few, without knowing what i was doing. last summer. :) very cool so far.
thanks to all who are participating!

something changed in me at 14 ... and I became very stable .. didn't fear anything ... and no more headaches ... I think it was because of gas fumes on the ground caused me to go out of my body .... I was sitting about 16 feet above the ground and to the right of my horse ... my horse turned his head and looked up straight at me.... I went back into my body and ran every single picture in my life in a few seconds ... I looked back and thought "did I run ALL the pictures .... yes I did ... " how can I run and entire lifetime in a few seconds .. well I just did .... there was a kind of realization in between each picture was a tiny gap of nothingness ... so it would be like going in the the space at an instant and then going out and going into the next created space all the way to birth ... I did not realize this until I got on this website and bill pointed out some of the abilities of the free zone upper OT levels .... there is something different in me ... I can pop back into the exact time and pop back to this time ... and in between is this tiny gap ... it is like going into the physical universe and going out .. to the void which I would say would be spirit outside the box ... so I have another ability that if I can attest to ... maybe I can just pop back to any time and tell anyone what happened exactly ... I think this is a result of sending us back to this period of time. as for the head aches ... when a viewpoint (I AM) doesn't have pictures he tends to want to be part of the crowd it seems so he borrows other people's pictures .. or I borrow the pictures of the GE in my body .. but somehow I separated the connection and am sitting somewhere in total serene ... watching the body doing all the reacting ... it is like I can cry ... but I put it in me .. but me the being is not crying .. I cry to create the effect I want at the time ... to send some kind of inspiration to others ... the body goes through the emotion with apparently real feelings .. while I am sitting back just a bit amused that I can do that ... when I was in the room where the thai buddhist was testing me I could feel the presence of other out of body buddhist that wanted to know why I am messing with their weather .... when you present an impossible situation to someone like "just move a spiritual finger out there and pull on the air and start up the wind ... it has a tendency to wake up the being ... especially if suddenly the wind starts up ... it startles the being and he knows you did it ... other times other awareness's .. can pick up the being too

try this ... look into the crowd of people and get the idea you can see where all the spirit beings are ... it gets very spiritual and you can almost see them or feel where they are next to their head ... or look at the area you are in and get the idea the space you are looking at is created space .... it will change your viewpoint to more spiritual
or get near a horse ... and get the idea you are communicating with her ... and it really gets spiritual .. at least for me.

jim

[ThePythonicCow]

I was reading about IBM's Watson that won on Jeopardy! not too long ago.

It crossed my mind whether a computer could be programmed to conduct the auditing process. From my understanding Hubbard's directions are pretty formulated and strict in their application. If someone with sufficient knowledge of programming and the clearing processes worked together, perhaps an internet site could be developed where people could be automatically audited?

Or perhaps I've underestimated the human element that's required to conduct the auditing? Just a thought, figured I'd throw it out there.

I hope everyone is doing well this day! : )

I suspect that human element you mention is indeed the key.

As I mentioned here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?48823-split-from-Horus-Ra-thread-discussion-of-conduct-on-that-thread/page8) many months ago, I took an intense weekend session called "Life Training" (now apparently called More To Life (http://moretolife.org/history.cfm)) with one of Roy Whitten or Brad Brown (I forget which one now) back in 1984.

During that weekend, one of the exercises involved us splitting off into pairs, each listening to one other tell some emotionally important story from their past, probably in some form of "clearing" exercise. I don't remember much, but I do remember this much. I was pretty much entirely locked into my "computer geek" mode at that time (doing some of the most intense multi-processor operating system development of my long career), and was a bit uncomfortable and ineffective in the listening role.

The trainer (Brad or Roy) was walking around the room, and easily noticed this. He leaned over my shoulder from behind me, put one hand on my shoulder to intercede, looked at the woman across from me who was having trouble telling her story to this geek, said perhaps one or two words to her that connected on a different level, and she barely got a couple words of her own out before breaking into tears. He handed her a box of Kleenex, glanced at me to verify that there wasn't much useful he could say or do on my behalf, and moved onto the next couple.

As enfoldedblue and Christine have noted above ... in terms they clearly understand better than this here retired geek ... there seems to be a heart to heart connection that is more essential to this process than the sequential logic of the words spoken.

I have no clue how to program that heart to heart connection into a computer.

[ThePythonicCow]

you can download a meter to run on the PC from free zone


Translation: :)

Here Jim means a 'virtual' meter, that runs on a computer screen on Windows.

http://freezoneearth.org/allmeters

(Never tried or used, it, as I have a Mac.)

Hi Bill, I might be wrong, but all I am seeing is E-meters for sale. Am I missing something?

This one, from the website Bill linked to, runs on "any Windows operating system": e-Pro: professional auditing framework (http://freezoneearth.org/allmeters/scrapbook/eprointerface/e_pro2004.htm).

[lakewatcher]

-------

This is about pragmatism. It's about what works: tools that are available for use. And, if this is appreciated, I'd quite like to share my personal experience, which is fairly extensive.

For reasons which I hope members and visitors alike will respect, I've always thus far kept this pretty much all compartmentalized from my work and my mission. That's because the mission is more important, and the topic of discussion here is ONLY about a set of tools that can assist one in tackling one's mission more effectively.

In the pages that follow I'll no doubt say that over and over again. This is about a set of tools which work. They really do, when used in ethical and skilled hands.

And you don't have to use them. There are many others. But some of you may be waiting for this information, and it would be small for me to withhold it all merely because I was concerned about the reception from detractors. This stuff can transform your life. (And, again, so can many other sets of tools. Make your choice: you're a free being.)

I undertake to you that I will tell the truth, will not distort anything, state clearly if there's something that *I* don't know or don't fully understand. So here goes.



I'll pause here, and welcome all and any questions. I'll undertake to answer them all as best I can. I can maybe help interpret some (but not all!) of the story that Jim is trying to recount, and will do my best, bearing in mind that any interpretation of Jim's experience may not be fully correct. (I do not know him personally, but feel -- as do many others -- that he's trying to tell us something important. Don't throw away the mud without sifting it through for diamonds first.) :)

Bill, thank you for sharing your personal experience with the original Hubbard technology. Over thirty years ago I had a very brief set of experiences with the Church. Though I gleaned a couple of gems from that experience, overall it was unpleasant and spiritually disturbing - red flags all over the place for me. I never was interested in having anything to do with the organization again.

But I did retain a back burner interest in what there might be of actual help and value buried beneath the crap. I wasn't able to make any progress on this until I recently ran into the Dane Tops interview and your posts here. Thank you especially for sharing your copy of the original Dianetics book.

Now for my question and my critique: I think this situation is really important and requires honesty, even some blunt honesty where necessary.

Are you acquainted with Lester Levenson's work? I mean Lester's own stuff, not the subsequent commercial corruptions of his work put forth by one or two of his students. Lester himself comes across to me as simple, humble, patient, loving and compassionate. In the portion of his material that I've read and viewed so far, he feels totally authentic to me. The core message and the carrier wave, so to speak, match. The walk matches the talk in every way that I can see so far.

He too reached extraordinary states of consciousness and spiritual maturity, attaining to the Christ Consciousness in 1952, and indeed was apparently able to do miraculous things (i.e. to act from the causal body). He humbly taught those who came to him and asked him to for over forty years. This is my current understanding about Lester.

Now I contrast my experience with Lester's material, with you and Jim.

You feel authentic to me, with your statements well considered and very balanced. I've seen many of your Camelot interviews and that's how you've generally always struck me. Just fact, no flattery.

With Jim on the other hand it's a different story. I've reviewed this thread and core parts of a couple of his first threads. My impression: Red flags all over the place. I get the impression of possibly some nuggets wrapped in a carrier wave that is extremely hazardous and possibly having delusional elements. He reminds me of the warning by Barbara Marciniak's Pleiadians in her book Bringers Of The Dawn, wherein the "Ps" say that during the time we are now going through, we will encounter beings that are evolved to a point where they can do amazing things, but that does not mean that these beings are necessarily spiritually enlightened. I don't get the impression that he is intentionally disinformitive, but, I do get the impression that there is something really wrong there that warrants extreme caution. IMHO

I am interested in reading more of whatever you Bill, may have to say about the value of Hubbards technology. Especially if you can translate it into common language. I think that the Scientology jargon is itself a form of mind conditioning and control - a type of verbal entrainment, an example of what Hubbard called "hypnosis", which he said he was fighting to free mankind from. One of the flags I mentioned. If someone comes here and posts in Greek, most of us are not going to understand it. Since that poster is posting in our "land" the onus is on them to speak in English, not on us to learn Greek.

I think its extremely important at this time for us to find what each of us needs to clear our baggage. But, it's also extremely important that we exercise the very best discernment in the process. It's really important. IMO

Well that's my two cents.

[Hervé]

In all of these computer programs, what I think would be missing is the duplication factor from a computer program that, as far as I know, only a human/being can produce since it has the specific wavelength(s) and intention required for the set of circumstances encountered in the session; although a Robert Duncan's (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?56002-Must-Read-The-Matrix-Deciphered-by-Dr-Robert-Duncan) type of "brain" heterodyning could substitute for that and generate from its memory banks the harmonic wavelengths which recorded that "human warmth."

That "human warmth" in the "tech" jargon is called "A-R-C" for Affinity, Reality, Communication. In Paul's experience, Affinity and Reality were "out," i.e. not "there" or present in the session and therefore the woman could not possibly feel "duplicated" or understood.

One can effectively communicate with, and understand/"duplicate", someone/something only when Affinity for, and reality with, someone/something are present. However, Communication with someone/something is sometime the only way to establish a common Reality with someone/something which engenders a higher degree of Affinity for that someone/something. That's the proverbial "find something (= look = communicate instead of discard/ignore) one likes about the person/thing (Affinity = "heart")" to break the ice...

"Duplication" is also the basis for the "vanishment"/"as-ising" of an engram... one needs to view it (Communicate with "it") in spite of the "fear" of pain (courage/heart/"love") -- whether physical or emotional -- a number of times in order to fully "embrace" it (Affinity) in its full Reality...

Once it is fully "duplicated"/understood along with the thoughts that created it in the first place as well as the thoughts it generated in the forms of decisions and conclusions; it ceases to affect one and vanishes into the realm of conscious memories with a "lesson learned!"

[Sidney]

-------

This is about pragmatism. It's about what works: tools that are available for use. And, if this is appreciated, I'd quite like to share my personal experience, which is fairly extensive.

For reasons which I hope members and visitors alike will respect, I've always thus far kept this pretty much all compartmentalized from my work and my mission. That's because the mission is more important, and the topic of discussion here is ONLY about a set of tools that can assist one in tackling one's mission more effectively.

In the pages that follow I'll no doubt say that over and over again. This is about a set of tools which work. They really do, when used in ethical and skilled hands.

And you don't have to use them. There are many others. But some of you may be waiting for this information, and it would be small for me to withhold it all merely because I was concerned about the reception from detractors. This stuff can transform your life. (And, again, so can many other sets of tools. Make your choice: you're a free being.)

I undertake to you that I will tell the truth, will not distort anything, state clearly if there's something that *I* don't know or don't fully understand. So here goes.



I'll pause here, and welcome all and any questions. I'll undertake to answer them all as best I can. I can maybe help interpret some (but not all!) of the story that Jim is trying to recount, and will do my best, bearing in mind that any interpretation of Jim's experience may not be fully correct. (I do not know him personally, but feel -- as do many others -- that he's trying to tell us something important. Don't throw away the mud without sifting it through for diamonds first.) :)

Bill, thank you for sharing your personal experience with the original Hubbard technology. Over thirty years ago I had a very brief set of experiences with the Church. Though I gleaned a couple of gems from that experience, overall it was unpleasant and spiritually disturbing - red flags all over the place for me. I never was interested in having anything to do with the organization again.

But I did retain a back burner interest in what there might be of actual help and value buried beneath the crap. I wasn't able to make any progress on this until I recently ran into the Dane Tops interview and your posts here. Thank you especially for sharing your copy of the original Dianetics book.

Now for my question and my critique: I think this situation is really important and requires honesty, even some blunt honesty where necessary.

Are you acquainted with Lester Levenson's work? I mean Lester's own stuff, not the subsequent commercial corruptions of his work put forth by one or two of his students. Lester himself comes across to me as simple, humble, patient, loving and compassionate. In the portion of his material that I've read and viewed so far, he feels totally authentic to me. The core message and the carrier wave, so to speak, match. The walk matches the talk in every way that I can see so far.

He too reached extraordinary states of consciousness and spiritual maturity, attaining to the Christ Consciousness in 1952, and indeed was apparently able to do miraculous things (i.e. to act from the causal body). He humbly taught those who came to him and asked him to for over forty years. This is my current understanding about Lester.

Now I contrast my experience with Lester's material, with you and Jim.

You feel authentic to me, with your statements well considered and very balanced. I've seen many of your Camelot interviews and that's how you've generally always struck me. Just fact, no flattery.

With Jim on the other hand it's a different story. I've reviewed this thread and core parts of a couple of his first threads. My impression: Red flags all over the place. I get the impression of possibly some nuggets wrapped in a carrier wave that is extremely hazardous and possibly having delusional elements. He reminds me of the warning by Barbara Marciniak's Pleiadians in her book Bringers Of The Dawn, wherein the "Ps" say that during the time we are now going through, we will encounter beings that are evolved to a point where they can do amazing things, but that does not mean that these beings are necessarily spiritually enlightened. I don't get the impression that he is intentionally disinformitive, but, I do get the impression that there is something really wrong there that warrants extreme caution. IMHO

I am interested in reading more of whatever you Bill, may have to say about the value of Hubbards technology. Especially if you can translate it into common language. I think that the Scientology jargon is itself a form of mind conditioning and control - a type of verbal entrainment, an example of what Hubbard called "hypnosis", which he said he was fighting to free mankind from. One of the flags I mentioned. If someone comes here and posts in Greek, most of us are not going to understand it. Since that poster is posting in our "land" the onus is on them to speak in English, not on us to learn Greek.

I think its extremely important at this time for us to find what each of us needs to clear our baggage. But, it's also extremely important that we exercise the very best discernment in the process. It's really important. IMO

Well that's my two cents.

You make some valid points with regards to the "language". And as with the goal of being clear, as scientology and dianetics are effective tools to reach someones goals, (what ever they may be), i do believe there is more than one road to enlightenment. have listened to many interviews with delores cannon, and othere who study and practice regressive hypnosis, and accessing past lives in order to "clear karma" and move beyond past painful experience. IMO, its the same concept, in different language. I do resonate with the concept of getting clear, and dumping past "memories(engrams), and as long as you get there, it doesn't matter how.
Scientology and dianetics is how Jim as gotten to where he is, and has profound experiences, in the process and as a result of it. It is big enough that he has the heart and need to share this with us, so that if we can accumulate enough of us with these abilities, then we as a whole can try to save what remains left of this planet.

Me personally, the scientology and dianetics wording/language reading makes my head hurt. LOL But I do believe it is partly because I have problems with my health, fatigue etc. physical and mental fatigue. What I have found is that it is easier to understand, if I read it after I am well rested, and not when I am already tired. I also am thinking it may be easier for me, both time wise, and financially, to get regression through one of Delores Cannons trainees,(there are many, scattered throughout the world), as at least with going that route, normally only one session is required. The closest free zone auditor geographically for me is a 5 hour drive, which for obvious reasons, the goal would never come to fruition.

I guess the one question that I have would be, exactly what the differrence is (if any) between auditing and regression. Because it seems to me to be the same.

[AwakeInADream]

I was reading about IBM's Watson that won on Jeopardy! not too long ago.

It crossed my mind whether a computer could be programmed to conduct the auditing process. From my understanding Hubbard's directions are pretty formulated and strict in their application. If someone with sufficient knowledge of programming and the clearing processes worked together, perhaps an internet site could be developed where people could be automatically audited?

Or perhaps I've underestimated the human element that's required to conduct the auditing? Just a thought, figured I'd throw it out there.

I hope everyone is doing well this day! : )

Yes, this is possible, and I know someone who experimented with that (writing a simple program) to run a particular process. I believe (Paul? Carmody?) in geek-speak this is called "an Expert Program". Computer training programs, that offer feedback on your answer, and then guide you to the next step (all a simple tree diagram in the software), are an example.

I'd see the use of this as a simple guidance template to help keep you (the 'client') on track with the process you're running. You could have a text message, or even a voice, that you would trigger by pressing <Enter>, and then it'd say [something like]:

THANK YOU. HAS THE INCIDENT ERASED?

(response: NO)

OKAY. DOES IT SEEM TO BE GETTING LIGHTER?

(response: YES)

GOOD. GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF THE INCIDENT, JUST BEFORE YOU REALIZED SOMETHING WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, AND RUN IT THROUGH ONE MORE TIME TO THE END. THEN LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU'RE THERE BY PRESSING <ENTER> AGAIN.

(etc, etc)

I've thought about doing this myself but not with traditional auditing, that seems a little difficult for just a simple program, and besides, don't you have to close your eyes? I have thought of a very easy way to do it though.

A perfect book to use for creating a computer program to do this would be Hubbard's "Self Analysis" because it's just full of questions that you ask yourself that aid you in recovering memories using all of the senses in turn. You could just as easily do this process from the book alone but the advantage of writing a program to do it would be that you could set it to throw out the questions randomly with random sense perceptions and keep a log of your progress, it would even become a handy journal to pick you up when you're feeling down. In the case of the question 'Recall a time when you were happy?' for instance, wouldn't it be nice to have a computer keep a list of all those pleasant memories? I guess it would be handy for someone if they were writing an autobiography or something like that also.

Amzer Zo posted a link to the "Self Analysis" book (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52786-MATRIX-REVEALED-Analysis-Solutions&p=622860&viewfull=1#post622860) by Hubbard a while back on another thread but the link is dead now. Anyway it would be a great book to get hold of if like me you can't afford to be audited (and don't really want to trust a stranger with your secrets), because you can do it on your own.

EDIT: I've uploaded Hubbard's 'Self Analysis' here:
21497

[AwakeInADream]

hi jim and bill, i have finally caught up on this thread, and read the first dianetics picture book. so far i have nothing to add, except now i have a name for what i've been learning to do, both by TraineeHuman/FineFeather (here in PA), by meditating, and by just knowing.
.................
im truly interested in engrams. ive removed a few, without knowing what i was doing. last summer. :) very cool so far.
thanks to all who are participating!

That's what I've been getting the sense of from my progress with TraineeHuman's OBE thread too, in that, in my dream and OBE experiences I've been travelling further and further back in time, clearing out the garbage as I go. I did read Dianetics years ago though so I was a little more conscious of the link between removing engrams and other types inner work, I just neglected highlight this aspect there because I think TH holds a rather dim view of Hubbard. Personally I think, like Bill has said, it's better to judge LRH by his (exceptional) work rather than his personality.

Another strange thing (where both worlds meet) is that a few nights ago after reading this thread, I had a dream in which I was being audited along with a large group of people. I guess my Higher Self is doing it for me.:) I'm sure being audited (in the physical world) would be a much quicker way of getting clear, but I'm happy for now to take the slow road. Besides, I'm enjoying the journey.:)

[lakewatcher]

You make some valid points with regards to the "language". And as with the goal of being clear, as scientology and dianetics are effective tools to reach someones goals, (what ever they may be), i do believe there is more than one road to enlightenment. have listened to many interviews with delores cannon, and othere who study and practice regressive hypnosis, and accessing past lives in order to "clear karma" and move beyond past painful experience. IMO, its the same concept, in different language. I do resonate with the concept of getting clear, and dumping past "memories(engrams), and as long as you get there, it doesn't matter how.
Scientology and dianetics is how Jim as gotten to where he is, and has profound experiences, in the process and as a result of it. It is big enough that he has the heart and need to share this with us, so that if we can accumulate enough of us with these abilities, then we as a whole can try to save what remains left of this planet.

Me personally, the scientology and dianetics wording/language reading makes my head hurt. LOL But I do believe it is partly because I have problems with my health, fatigue etc. physical and mental fatigue. What I have found is that it is easier to understand, if I read it after I am well rested, and not when I am already tired. I also am thinking it may be easier for me, both time wise, and financially, to get regression through one of Delores Cannons trainees,(there are many, scattered throughout the world), as at least with going that route, normally only one session is required. The closest free zone auditor geographically for me is a 5 hour drive, which for obvious reasons, the goal would never come to fruition.

I guess the one question that I have would be, exactly what the differrence is (if any) between auditing and regression. Because it seems to me to be the same.

IMO they are essentially similar, if both are properly and ethically done right.

I have seen a number of statements in various places lately that 'hypnosis' is always oppressive, always an evil control device. Well, it seems to me it depends upon how it is used.

My understanding of hypnosis is that it is the set of trance states that can result from carefully focusing our consciousness. It is a tool that can be evil or good depending upon how it is used. It can be used, and all too often has been, for mind control and enslavement and suppression of the self. Conversely, I think it can also be used to defuse and undo mind control mechanisms and enslavement. It takes knowledge, skill and integrity to undo the evil booby traps implanted by previous hypnotic and traumatic experiences.

And IMO, the last, and absolutely necessary, stage of the right use of the tool is to cultivate and bring to consciousness in the subject the awareness of what happened and how they lost control of themselves, and to restore their full control of their own mind.

It is my personal opinion, that any procedure that violates the integrity of another's soul or mind is inherently evil and a most heinous crime.

[Bill Ryan]

besides, don't you have to close your eyes?

No, not at all. I've never closed my eyes, or been asked to, in any auditing session I've ever had.

(Thanks for the question!)




It is my personal opinion, that any procedure that violates the integrity of another's soul or mind is inherently evil and a most heinous crime.

Perfectly stated.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

------

A little more in answer to seko above:



One can also do sessions with a distant auditor over Skype. (The meter can be with either person.)
When solo auditing, unless one is very experienced or highly qualified, one does need guidance on what to audit (i.e. what question-and-answer processes to 'run') from someone who is qualified and experienced and who understands what you're wanting to address.




Are there theories that may explain how "The meter can be with either person." when the auditor may be far away during a Skype conversation?

Yes -- although only esoteric ones! But those reading this may understand.

The distant auditor (or specifically, their body) gets in 'resonance' with the client, and therefore is able to manifest the same reads on the meter at their end.

But clearly, to do this, the auditor needs to be in significantly good shape, so that nothing of their own is reading at all, which would of course interfere and give false indications.

Is the auditor's process to "get in resonance" with the audited a simple process of using intent, quieting the mind and shifting awareness to the heart chakra or is the process more elaborate?

[AwakeInADream]

besides, don't you have to close your eyes?

No, not at all. I've never closed my eyes, or been asked to, in any auditing session I've ever had.

(Thanks for the question!)

Thanks Bill!:) I mistakenly thought that auditing took place from a state of reverie (where you do close your eyes), but that reminds me of a question I'd love to ask you. You see when I first read Dianetics I got really excited about the prospect of reverie, I thought I would suddenly have a photographic memory and be able to recall all of the events from my life and go back even further into past lives too (even though past lives weren't mentioned in the book, I read in between the lines). But, I've never been able to do it right, or perhaps I've got the wrong idea about it?

Can you give me any tips on how to do reverie correctly?

Or maybe just explain it better from your experience?

I had a serious accident as a toddler that I have absolutely no recollection of, and if I could only remember that one incident I'm pretty sure that most(if not all) of my engrams would fall like a house of cards, I only need a way of getting to it.

Does it take a lot of work to remove any blockages I may have that stop me having full audio/visual recall?
(it's mostly audio that I lack, which perhaps explains why when I type, I sometimes miss out some of the smaller words:o)

[bram]

[...]

At the time of publication, Ron Hubbard stated that the timeline begins at conception. Therefore, no engrams could exist prior to this. At the same time the book gives the impression that there are large numbers of clears in his organization, and defines clears as people who have no remaining engrams (i.e., they are clear of engrams). Later, and I have so far found only sketchy details about how this change came about, it was revealed that engrams exist from past lives. [...]

Love, bram

LRH was put pressure on to leave out past lives from the Dianetics data and procedure as being "too far out." His only regret about the book.

It is still "too far out" for a large portion of the population as reflected by the debates happening on this forum with the threads dealing with re-incarnation.

Ah, thanks for this. This makes a lot of sense because reading the book it is clear that he was still expecting Dianetics to be accepted at some point by the mainstream 'scientific' establishment. However, I don't see how he could have expected to maintain the integrity of the theory without going back into past lives. Seems like a pretty big compromise to make- after all, the truth is the truth is the truth.....

[bram]

[...]

At the time of publication, Ron Hubbard stated that the timeline begins at conception. Therefore, no engrams could exist prior to this. At the same time the book gives the impression that there are large numbers of clears in his organization, and defines clears as people who have no remaining engrams (i.e., they are clear of engrams). Later, and I have so far found only sketchy details about how this change came about, it was revealed that engrams exist from past lives. [...]



Love, bram

LRH was put pressure on to leave out past lives from the Dianetics data and procedure as being "too far out." His only regret about the book.

It is still "too far out" for a large portion of the population as reflected by the debates happening on this forum with the threads dealing with re-incarnation.

I never read that part ... the part I read was that if running past lives removed the engram than run the past lives

jim

Nope. The book specifically states that the timeline begins at conception, and extends to the present moment.

Love, bram

[Hervé]

[...]

Nope. The book specifically states that the timeline begins at conception, and extends to the present moment.

Love, bram

Correct about the Dianetics book.

Past lives were addressed in subsequent books (i.e. Science of Survival) where the advice given for running into a past life incident for someone who doesn't believe in past lives is to just run the incident as an engram and erase it.

Of course, keeping running into past lives incidents and running them to "resolve the case" leads directly to "something" surviving the body in order to carry memories and re-creating problems into the current life... the body itself having none of these memories to start with.

Hence, very early on, LRH started to investigate what exactly was carrying those memories and re-creating them into present time... "Spirit!" and its "theta body"... and the determination and conclusion derived from it was that "spirit/thought" is boss above anything else.

The above directly led to Scientology because of the dealings in the spiritual realm in contrast to Dianetics which got cornered to the "one-life-time" body ailments/somatics.



A few words on these different memory lines…

I am gonna draw from a very old Gypsy tradition (Pierre Derlon; Tradition Occultes des Gitans) which summarizes Man as:

“The figure 3 and its geometrical transcription – the triangle -- means “Life.” Numerous jewelries are constructed around that number. According to Tzigans, Man as a whole is constituted of a body which rots, a spirit which persists and an immaterial body as an interface between these two.”

That’s the “body-mind-spirit” thing that’s being trashed around.

It’s a trinity constituted of elements which are independent of each other and thrown together to make up a human being. This is represented in the universal “Triskel” with three independently originated spirals joining together to form a central triangle. Later traditions omitted the generating spirals to only keep the central composite triangle.

From there, we end up with three independent memory lines; one genetic, one spiritual and one from the interface. Hence the confusion as to whose memories one is accessing through whichever method.

Here is a quick rundown of the complexity that can be achieved with such combinations:

Genetic/biological line memories: retains its own experiences PLUS the experiences of the mind-interfaces which have influenced its lineage PLUS the memories of the various spirits which have influenced the other two along that same lineage.

Rotate the above scenario for the mind line of memories and the spirit line of memories… you might find that the yarn that has been gone through by a few alley cats is kiddy stuff to unravel…

Hence the $64,000 question:

“Which question’s answer is worth knowing?”

Biologist and geneticists as well as genealogists would go for the genetic line.

Psychology and related fields have gone after the interface line but with a strong leaning on the genetic one.

Religions and philosophies have been distorting the spirit line for eons… George W. Hoover’s “The Biggest Secret.”

[wegge]

is anyone interested in co-auditing? (2 rather newbies learning auditing by doing it with each other)

[enfoldedblue]

Thanks for your response Bill. I just had a personal aha moment :) . What I get is that LRH went as far as he could with his technology....but he was missing a key ingredient in the return to wholeness...HEART. Humility, compassion and the ability to let go and be, reside in the heart. I have found that when I allow myself to drop into my heart I feel connected to something much bigger than myself; in this space I no longer feel the need to push, to control, to be important, to dominate.

Perhaps this is what Jiminii is missing as well. There is a child-like beauty to Jiminii (as Christine pointed out), but there is also a sense of being lost and somewhat confused (hi Jiminii love to you).

Unfortunately, or really probably more likely fortunately :) , I do not think that heart connection is something that can be achieved through technology. I believe it starts from cultivating and nurturing a deep sense of love for oneself (not egotistical love, but real love accepting all...the good and the bad), and from there can extend out to everyone and everything.

Hi enfoldedblue,

Thank you for the honest transparency of your words. I know that when we speak from true self, from HEART we are connecting. I feel the same way you do about heart and humility. I am aware of three perceiving and receiving centers in my body, they reside in my mind, my heart and my solar plexus (body). When I am in harmony with these three identities of self then I am in flow, right flow, acting and speaking harmoniously with myself and my environment.

I just want to add a small bit of my own experiential data and this happen just two days ago.

I have had the acquaintance of a highly trained tech auditor for the past year and a half. Overcoming my own distaste for Scientology, the word technology and all the jargon that accompanies the subject I permitted myself to a few sessions. I still cringe at the word tech - maybe in the 1950's it sounded better than it does now.

Any way my experience: I was looking at a problem that I was having with another person, I was aware that this wasn't a simple misunderstanding that something very deep was blocking my flow and was creating distrust in my living environment. Where I was went in my session was so far out that I will leave the details out, it is the result that counts. What happen was that I encountered an enormous being which I worked at freeing. On being set free my heart filled with the most beautiful golden light... warmth flowed through my whole being. My personal realization, or cognition was that it is that little by little through out our present time paradigm the heart energy has been captured, locked up and used to our own detriment, just as much as the mind. When the two are set free then I believe we will finally and fully return to our True Self.

We just so often get locked into one aspect of our BEing at the expense of the other. The integration of Self is a journey... we are well on it. :)

P.S. The person that I know is so tech oriented that you would think that they don't have a heart, until you see this amazing playful being come out from time to time. Similar to jiminii for sure!

Personally I feel jiminii's heart energy burning so strong. His posts make me laugh and smile, nothing wrong with that.

With heart,
Christine


Thanks for your reply Christine. I appreciate your sharing. As I mentioned in my first post on this thread I am aware that there are many roads.

Personally I prefer a more direct route where the universe is my teacher, guiding me back to connection and wholeness. It is a beautiful, organic, profound, mysterious process that feels as though it was perfectly designed for me.

By now I have developed quite a sophisticated relationship with my teacher. For a long time my process guided me to deep memories of past-lives and way beyond (as I mentioned in the Feedback Loop thread). In the last couple of years the focus has shifted from healing and clearing past, to cultivating a deep heart space. This part is getting really exciting for me because the more proficient I become at holding heart space, the more I see my outer world changing and the more comfortable, and magical it is becoming.

So while this path that is being promoted here may be beneficial for some, I do not feel that it could give me more than what I have already discovered within. I feel my questions have been answered thanks to you both.

As my signature says... LOVE ALLways :)

[sdafnom]

If someone comes here and posts in Greek, most of us are not going to understand it. Since that poster is posting in our "land" the onus is on them to speak in English, not on us to learn Greek.


Dear Lakewatcher,

If you read the post carefully you will see that it does not contain any "Greek" word that you cannot recognize and already use in "your" language.
The only reason I wrote them in Greek, along with their english spelling, is to show the similarity in writing and explain their origin.


(the usage of the word "you" from now on, does not addressing you personally, but addresses everyone including me.)

As I explained, Hubbard insisted to stop reading, as soon as you came by a word you didn't fully understand.
The reason for this is very important. You have to know the true meaning of each word, in order to understand the implied explanation/reference behind it.

Example:
English translation of the bible - John Genesis
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"

In both the Greek and Hebrew versions it doesn't say "word" but "Logos".
As said in the post "LOGOS in the esoteric sense, is the ineffable principle. It denotes the "starting point" from which everything spawn".

Now in many "teachings" we read that the "word was lost".
Again in ancient texts the original word is "forgotten" not "lost"

Now if you go looking for the "lost word" you will never find it, as it was never really a word.

But if you translate the words correctly, you will see that "in the beginning Logos (or the divine spark) was with all creation (including the spirit), but it was forgotten during the passage of many aeons. Again as I mention in the post, the word anthropos denotes a being capable of remembering.

Put it all together and you see, that once you were a creative spirit capable of everything, but loosing your memory (or taken from you) during the passage of time, you became weak and almost powerless. But there is hope, since as a human being you are capable of remembering, thus restoring yourself to the previous state of being. (This is what scientology claims to do well, removing obstacles that block your pathway to your memories)

That is a small example why I explain the meaning of some of the key words.
It was not my intention to give lessons in Greek.
It is all about symbolism and mystical meanings in any language.

The average English speaker uses 30-40% Greek words daily without realizing it.
Everything that ends in -ology: Technology -> The art of logos, Astrology -> The Logos of the stars, Apology, Biology etc, is 99% Greek

As for the five words explained: Logos, Episteme, Dia, Nous, Anthropos

logos
1. (in Greek philosophy) the rational principle that governs and develops the universe.
2. (in Christian theology) the divine word or reason incarnate in Jesus Christ. John 1:1–14.

episteme
1. the body of ideas that determine the knowledge that is intellectually certain at any particular time

dia-
1. a prefix occurring orig. in loanwords from Greek, with the meanings “through, across, from point to point” (diachronic; diameter; diarrhea), “in different directions, apart, at an angle” (dialysis; diastole ), “completeness or thoroughness (of the action of the verb)” (diagnosis).

nous
1. Reason and knowledge as opposed to sense perception.
2. The rational part of the individual human soul.
3. The principle of the cosmic mind or soul responsible for the rational order of the cosmos.
4. In Stoicism, the equivalent of Logos.
5. In Neo-Platonism, the image of the absolute good, containing the cosmos of intelligible beings.

Anthropo-
In most universities you will find a department of anthropology, so that word is known too.


To make a long story short, I am under the impression that I am writing in English.
If I am mistaken I apologize.

Stavros

PS Mods, if this post is in anyway inappropriate or offensive please remove it at once.

[Fred Steeves]

In the last couple of years the focus has shifted from healing and clearing past, to cultivating a deep heart space. This part is getting really exciting for me because the more proficient I become at holding heart space, the more I see my outer world changing and the more comfortable, and magical it is becoming.


Spot on Christy, as usual. In coming to peace with our inner world (through our heart space), our outer world necessarily follows suit. Yes it is exciting, it can be accomplished by a simple "handshake" with the Universe, and it is also where true magic resides. :)

Cheers,
Fred

:focus:

[bram]

I think its extremely important at this time for us to find what each of us needs to clear our baggage. But, it's also extremely important that we exercise the very best discernment in the process. It's really important. IMO


Hi Lakewatcher,

Personally I cant understand most of what Jim is posting, but I think we can best exercise our discernment by reading those posts we identify with, and skipping over the others. So I don't have a problem with Jim posting as many messages as he wants on any topic he wants to address.

Love, bram

[Prodigal Son]

I know from personal experience that when we react negatively to information like this it is due to fear.

My advice is, gno thyself, and nothing can hurt you. You are powerful beyond your wildest dreams.

[sdafnom]

Nope. The book specifically states that the timeline begins at conception, and extends to the present moment.

Love, bram

My question is... which is the conception that the reference is made to?

The incarnate one or the birth of the soul?

In ancient teachings is it said that the soul is conceived in the heart of the stars and starts its journey from there to its own evolution. Is it possible that LRH was implying that?

No idea...

Stavros

[Christine]

Thanks for your response Bill. I just had a personal aha moment :) . What I get is that LRH went as far as he could with his technology....but he was missing a key ingredient in the return to wholeness...HEART. Humility, compassion and the ability to let go and be, reside in the heart. I have found that when I allow myself to drop into my heart I feel connected to something much bigger than myself; in this space I no longer feel the need to push, to control, to be important, to dominate.

Perhaps this is what Jiminii is missing as well. There is a child-like beauty to Jiminii (as Christine pointed out), but there is also a sense of being lost and somewhat confused (hi Jiminii love to you).

Unfortunately, or really probably more likely fortunately :) , I do not think that heart connection is something that can be achieved through technology. I believe it starts from cultivating and nurturing a deep sense of love for oneself (not egotistical love, but real love accepting all...the good and the bad), and from there can extend out to everyone and everything.

Hi enfoldedblue,

Thank you for the honest transparency of your words. I know that when we speak from true self, from HEART we are connecting. I feel the same way you do about heart and humility. I am aware of three perceiving and receiving centers in my body, they reside in my mind, my heart and my solar plexus (body). When I am in harmony with these three identities of self then I am in flow, right flow, acting and speaking harmoniously with myself and my environment.

I just want to add a small bit of my own experiential data and this happen just two days ago.

I have had the acquaintance of a highly trained tech auditor for the past year and a half. Overcoming my own distaste for Scientology, the word technology and all the jargon that accompanies the subject I permitted myself to a few sessions. I still cringe at the word tech - maybe in the 1950's it sounded better than it does now.

Any way my experience: I was looking at a problem that I was having with another person, I was aware that this wasn't a simple misunderstanding that something very deep was blocking my flow and was creating distrust in my living environment. Where I was went in my session was so far out that I will leave the details out, it is the result that counts. What happen was that I encountered an enormous being which I worked at freeing. On being set free my heart filled with the most beautiful golden light... warmth flowed through my whole being. My personal realization, or cognition was that it is that little by little through out our present time paradigm the heart energy has been captured, locked up and used to our own detriment, just as much as the mind. When the two are set free then I believe we will finally and fully return to our True Self.

We just so often get locked into one aspect of our BEing at the expense of the other. The integration of Self is a journey... we are well on it. :)

P.S. The person that I know is so tech oriented that you would think that they don't have a heart, until you see this amazing playful being come out from time to time. Similar to jiminii for sure!

Personally I feel jiminii's heart energy burning so strong. His posts make me laugh and smile, nothing wrong with that.

With heart,
Christine


Thanks for your reply Christine. I appreciate your sharing. As I mentioned in my first post on this thread I am aware that there are many roads.

Personally I prefer a more direct route where the universe is my teacher, guiding me back to connection and wholeness. It is a beautiful, organic, profound, mysterious process that feels as though it was perfectly designed for me.

By now I have developed quite a sophisticated relationship with my teacher. For a long time my process guided me to deep memories of past-lives and way beyond (as I mentioned in the Feedback Loop thread). In the last couple of years the focus has shifted from healing and clearing past, to cultivating a deep heart space. This part is getting really exciting for me because the more proficient I become at holding heart space, the more I see my outer world changing and the more comfortable, and magical it is becoming.

So while this path that is being promoted here may be beneficial for some, I do not feel that it could give me more than what I have already discovered within. I feel my questions have been answered thanks to you both.

As my signature says... LOVE ALLways :)

Sister,

Thank you. One way to say it is that the Universe (You) is your teacher. You are a blessed one for sure in that from an early age you have been gifted with deep understanding of yourself in relationship to ALL.

As one wise one said - "Where ever you are there you are." If along this road one finds that they need help then it is there for the asking, it ALL comes from the universal gift no matter the method. For some people though there is a lot of interference in the way of hearing that message.

This thread isn't so much about promoting as it is about exploring a methodology if that would help someone. And in my understanding it is promoting the same magical BEcoming.

Peace and deep understanding in ALL things,
Christine

[bram]

Nope. The book specifically states that the timeline begins at conception, and extends to the present moment.

Love, bram

My question is... which is the conception that the reference is made to?

The incarnate one or the birth of the soul?

In ancient teachings is it said that the soul is conceived in the heart of the stars and starts its journey from there to its own evolution. Is it possible that LRH was implying that?

No idea...

Stavros

Hi Stavros,

Amzer Zo answered this one in his post #199- Dianetics got stuck (thru compromise) on the one-life model, but Scientology moved on to dealiing with previous lifetimes.

love, bram

[Bill Ryan]

Nope. The book specifically states that the timeline begins at conception, and extends to the present moment.

Love, bram

My question is... which is the conception that the reference is made to?

The incarnate one or the birth of the soul?



In the book, he was talking about the timeline of the identity as that human being (starting from conception in the mother's womb).

(Footnote: sometimes the being enters the body after conception, and in some cases even after birth. But to continue...)

At that time (1950), LRH was discouraged by his peers and colleagues from being so outrageous as to speculate about past lives (previous existences as other human beings). So this was omitted from the book.

Later, he received huge amounts of feedback from readers who reported information (and were asking many questions) about incidents which, when tracked back using his techniques, went "earlier-similar' to apparent past lives.

In 1952, he parted company from the Dianetics Foundation (which had gathered itself around LRH to support his work based on the 1950 book) to found 'Scientology' -- which was focused not so much on the mind as the spirit in its eternal experience.

[we-R-one]

Is it a question that just shouldn't be asked? Is it a challenge to a claim or info given? Is it pointing out inconsistencies, discrepancies, or red flags, and asking how come? Is it an unconscious engram being restimulated, that simply needs to be audited? Is it wondering why the sudden avalanche of Scientology tech here, starting with the introduction of a previously unknown Scientology super hero? Is it wondering why we suddenly have to have a new leader figure to guide us young'uns out of the briar patch?


Hey Fred,

You know what really perplexes me?

Well, it´s the undeniable fact that such subject gained that much traction here based on huge, unverifiable and unfounded claims made by someone who believes to be the second coming of Jesus or something close to it.

This is really impressive; If there was an yearly gullibility award, PA would be a serious candidate to win it.


Raf -- I really understand.

But Simon Parkes claims experiences that can't be proved. Inelia told astonishing stories that can't be proved (including many that were never published: we edited them out of her interview because they were too sensational).

Clif High's calculated predictions can't be proved. (Has anyone checked his math?!) David Icke can't prove his experience when he took ayahuasca in Peru a few years ago and listened to a discarnate women talking to him for many hours.

I saw an ET physically appear in my bedroom in 1984. I can't prove that, either. Neither can Jake prove any of his OBEs.

Henry Deacon can't prove he's been to Mars.

In fact -- the world is FULL of astonishing personal experiences. Most of the most important experiences in anyone's life can't be 'proved'.

But that doesn't mean that someone should not be frustrated or confused at all the bewildering claims. So that's why I understand.

All people can do -- if they can find the courage -- is report their experience. It took over 20 years for me to summon the courage to report my ET experience to anyone other than a couple of friends.

That's why Avalon is an exceptional community: because in the 50,000+ threads we have here, there are hundreds -- maybe thousands -- of personal posts where people have trusted the community enough to share their crazy unprovable stories.

Raf, remember the spiders you 'saw'? That's one example of many. (I won't ask you to prove it! I do not believe you were lying or deluded. But by sharing that story, you actually helped many others who were trying to makes sense of their own experiences.) That's why this is important.

We're all story-telling here, round the campfire -- and that is a time-honored, ancient tradition. Any student of traditional cultures knows that story-telling is a really important activity -- and is not trivial at all. If people learn from the stories... that's what is important.

We do need to be scientists, and I have the deepest respect for you for that commitment within yourself -- but there's also much more to life and experience than just that. Sometimes, we may never know the truth... but can learn from it nonetheless.

Jiminii Crickets(kidding of course) trying to keep up here with all these new threads! Sorry for my late comment.

Can I add something here? Correct me if I'm wrong- Raf I've enjoyed reading your posts for quite some time, but I see an issue where you struggle with specific types of information. The impression I get from reading your posts for the past year is that you are a person who has to see it, touch it, feel it, or taste it, otherwise it doesn't exist. This is a 3D(dimension) belief system and quite common. I've noticed the same expectation from several posters on this forum. I've even asked some of them what kind of proof do they need to believe. In one particular situation, the forum member couldn't answer the question which said to me, they will be searching their entire life because if they can't identify what they consider to be undeniable proof, they will never believe in anything. IMO, this is part of the programming we've been subjected to believe for eons of time. What I've discovered is what we've been taught to believe as real is not necessarily what's real........what's real are often things that we cannot see or touch and cannot be placed within the 3D box belief system described above.

Making this more challenging for yourself, you have commented to me that you don't believe in anything. Well if you don't believe in anything, you will never believe period if you remain steadfast in this direction, so many of these threads on Avalon will be frustrating for you. Might I add that 'not believing in anything' is still a belief.

As some can see, much of what is being discovered to be true, does not fit into the belief system of a 3D paradigm, and as you've probably noticed, the science has not completely caught up. Belief systems are what create realities. If you consistently try to put things under the 3D microscope they will not be real in your reality. I like to use this example a lot because everyone can relate.....Do you dream? and of course you would say 'yes'....my next question would be, prove it! Well this is a no brainer as we know dreams are real, even though we can't physically see everybody's dreams. Many experiences being discussed on Jiminii's threads are subjective in the same manner. This is what's real! This is living in multi-dimensionality. As long as you insist on not believing it will never be real for you. What is it that you fear? Are you afraid that you'll be duped? There is nothing to fear, you cannot make a mistake. Instead of not believing, I like to suggest "shift your set of beliefs as new truths come forward."

I'm just trying to help you connect the dots and I keep hoping whether it be me or someone else, that we say something in a manner that registers and creates that missing link to aid in your understanding. I'm not picking on you, I just want to try and help. If you want out of this 3D paradigm you have to stop thinking with 3D belief systems. We have discussed Epigenetics in the past and I feel the principles behind this science will give you the validation you seek, which is why I shared it with you in the first place. They have done valid scientific studies; you mustn't ignore this fact as it will help you grow in your understanding with the variety of topics discussed on this forum. The tug and pull we are all feeling at times I believe comes from different levels of understanding, where some have shifted their belief systems to match the new truths and others who still insist on applying 3D principles to metaphysical experiences which do not necessarily perform under the antiquated beliefs of a 3D reality.

On a side note, I do understand your reservation towards Jiminii because he's so new to this forum;....you are "vetting" this individual which I think is important to do with anyone. That being said, it does not mean what he's sharing isn't real just because we don't necessarily know who he is or what he's all about. I have yet to get the impression that he thinks he's the "second coming of Christ", but what I see him saying is the same as myself and what I revealed in "The Solutions" thread and that is the "second coming" is you! You have the ability to do the same things he can do, but if you don't believe you will continue on with the 3D status quo. That is the message, many will fail to see if they insist on maintaining the belief systems that enforce powerlessness and reliance of others for one's comfort and existence.

C'mon Raf!!! you're so smart.....I want to take your hand and jump off the cliff with you to help get you over this hurdle. Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding your point of view due to not being able to speak face to face; all I have to go on is the observation of past posts which have lead me to believe that you are more comfortable living under the confines of a 3D belief system which is your right, but many of us are pulling away and embracing new realities that show potential to enhance our world in ways we could have never imagined.

Alright, well I have about 20 more pages to read on the other thread in order to catch up, thanks for listening.



PS As you well know this is what I mean by dimension, NOT the 3D definition which describes the spatial aspects of what a dimension can be. This is a Public Service Announcement and it should be noted that the word police were not contacted and asked for permission to use the definition below. I have chosen to be my own person of moral authority regarding this matter. May the regular scheduled programming not commence from this point forward.....lmao.

DIMENSION- A dimension is a state of consciousness. When you look at what we know about dimensions, what we find is that each is about a unique set of beliefs. Our current 3D consciousness was not established until enough people began to believe the same way. And the current 5D consciousness will not be established until enough of the people existing there figure out how to live in unity. So we see that when enough people live a set of beliefs they create a dimension.

[deridan]

canning my rubbish,

only useful conclusion,
it would take great confidence as a 'scientologist' to know you really on the right path, that you are really remembering scenes from a past life,
but then the process would make you equal to your being,
its observed that in pure regression, that what the subconscious says is often way higher than the individual,
so it might be useful to combine both, use regression to find the main stories, and with this method to make yourself equal to completing the mission you no doubt would have given yourself in this life.

it does seem as if, when viewing in spirit through spirit the confluence of multiple lives incl. this one, that a the 3 top charkras are stimulated. one needs enlivening from lowers and uppers.
..i'll admit that foolish i am into anime, and for instance from watching naruto, that i've seen many principles of even psy communication, but a usefull lesson from their is to balance of the two major energies, without allowing one to predominate (n in the frog saga to reach sage mode)

[berry]

Thank you for your explanation, Bill. It sounds like you got out in time to enjoy the benefits from "Ron's Org." You won your badge of honor by being on the "enemies" list.

By the way, THANK you a MILLION times for all your spot on reporting. :wizard: Your work at Project Avalon is very much appreciated and valuable.

Love your mention of "not throwing away the mud, without sifting it through for diamonds first."
Very much aware of the diamond, Jim. He's not only the real deal, but VERY, VERY OT!

Thank you, for your devotion to spreading the truth and expertise in doing so!
Berry

[lakewatcher]

If someone comes here and posts in Greek, most of us are not going to understand it. Since that poster is posting in our "land" the onus is on them to speak in English, not on us to learn Greek.


Dear Lakewatcher,

If you read the post carefully you will see that it does not contain any "Greek" word that you cannot recognize and already use in "your" language.
The only reason I wrote them in Greek, along with their english spelling, is to show the similarity in writing and explain their origin.

Oops! My apologies sdafnom, I was not completely clear in what I meant. First of all, it was not my intention to refer at all to you, or to your post, which yes, did literally include some Greek. My use of the word "Greek" was figurative only and taken from the common expression, "It's Greek to me!", and not meant as a literal reference to the Greek language. I should have said, "If someone comes here and posts in Greek, so to speak, ..." Now, considering that you did use some Greek in your post, it was sloppy and inconsiderate of me to choose Greek as my figurative symbol for language with which most of us are unfamiliar. In fact I do not object to your actual post because you explained your terms quite well in it. But because I forgot about the facts of your post, I made a clumsy error, resulting in my post being ambiguous about who and what I was referring to with my reference to the Greek language. I hope you will forgive me. My error was not intentional.

Now, to try to clarify further the point about language that I was trying to make in my own post. If we must literally take a course in Dianetic and Scientology terminology in order for us to intelligently discuss it, then I think that the proper place for that is in a specialized forum. But personally, I don't agree with Hubbard or the proponents of Scientology that Hubbard's specialized language must be mastered in order for someone to be able to understand the essential points and value of the parts of his system, or tool as Bill put it, that actually work. I suspect that the truth within his system can be expressed in more than one way, and certainly simpler than he and his Church did it. As I said, I think that their "Scientologese" actually constituted a form of verbal mental entrainment, or in other words brainwashing, whether they intended it to be such or not.

If it turns out that I am wrong on this point, I will be glad to change my view on it and admit my error.

My intention was to say that Jim's posts are so dense with Scientological technical jargon, that for those of us who are not trained in it, it is like trying to read a foreign language, hence my too abbreviated reference to the idiom "It's Greek to me!". I see that I should not have assumed that everyone would realize that I was trying to reference that common expression by just using the reference to the Greek language.

My intended point was to say that when the general population here in the forum is addressed about a subject, a commonly understood level of speech really should be used.

In specialized sections of the forum, where members who participate in those specialized discussions can be expected to know the language of the turf, so to speak, then a specialized language would be in order. In the Astronomy and Cosmology section of the forum, for example, one would expect to find a lot of scientific terminology used, and to be familiar to the usual participants of that section of the forum.

The discussion of Scientology and Jim is occurring within the whole forum, and the dense technical language that is often used in this discussion so far, makes it difficult for a lot of us to follow, in my opinion. For us, the discussion may as well be in Greek, or French, or some other foreign language. I think that the discussion in the general forum would be better served, if care were taken by those familiar with the subject to translate the points into intelligent but commonly understood speech for the rest of us. As long as those presenting the subject, wish to carry out the discussion in the general forum, I think that the onus is on the presenters of the subject to do the translating, rather than expecting the rest of us to learn their specialized language.

sdafnom, I hope that this clarifies my intended message on this point.

[bram]

I would like to share my evolving awareness on this matter, if nobody minds. Having moved on from reading Dianetics to starting the book ‘Self-Clearing’ by the Pilot, I found that, after a few preliminary exercises, one of the first activities is to try to stimulate past life awareness.

I went into this on a superficial level (one is supposed to read through the book ‘lightly’ the first time, then read it a second time going into full detail on the exercises), and without much expectation, not being by nature an intuitive person.

The idea is to pick a time in the past with which you feel an affinity, and try to visualize a life for yourself in this time, filling in the details as you go. The intention is to find a pleasant past-life memory, and it seemed to me like so much wishful thinking (or BS).

However, when I tried it, I immediately picked up on a recent death experience. I was on the deck of a ship, which was hurtling at full speed into battle. The steel deck was painted in grey enamel paint, and I was watching the waters speed by, glumly thinking that my life was speeding by with the water. I can’t remember if I could hear the engines. Shortly after this, I drowned; I know this now, but I have not yet recollected it (other than the sensation of suddenly being in the water), or the period between.

My lifelong fear of water (or more correctly of drowning) came into focus here; swimming lessons at school were the most miserable time of my life, even though I learned to overcome this fear, even teaching my own kids to swim, it comes as no surprise to me now that I have previously died by drowning.

It next occurred to me that an engram resulting from unconsciousness is in effect, a petit mort. There is a loss of consciousness, amnesia, and a vulnerability to any words spoken during unconsciousness. Next I realized that this was the wrong way round, an engram is not a little death, but death is a big engram.

We are not beings with a series of past lives, we are immortal beings with a single life, which is broken up (and aberrated) by a series of major engrams (deaths) into individual ‘mini-lives’ which are themselves interrupted and aberrated by minor engrams.

This sent me scurrying to the Tibetan Book of the Dead looking for equivalences- the Thodol Bardo is a book containing instructions for how to assist a recently dead person with how to transition through the death bardo (or engram), containing gems such as ‘do not allow the relatives of the deceased to weep and wail in the prescence of the corpse, as this is very bad for the deceased’. The book contains instructions for the dead person’s guru or friend to speak to the corpse, giving full instructions on how to deal with the death experience, including where necessary how to get the best out of rebirth, and this struck me as being very similar to LRH’s recommendations for dealing with an engram.

So now I conclude that death is a major engram, involving not only total amnesia, but total loss of form (note that amnesia following accident-related unconsciousness is very common).

It seems to me now that the trauma resulting from thousands of deaths should be the major target for Clearing, and that falling off my bike at the age of 10 is probably a very minor issue by comparison.

It also seems that being Clear is likely to be a very relative condition statement until we have released the engrams from thousands or millions of previous deaths!

I would love to hear the thoughts of any Freezoners on this……

Love, bram

[bram]

canning my rubbish,

Ah, Back on planet earth Deridan!! Welcome home. ;)

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Thought this might shed some light...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvfioivtY6c

what an awesome video !

so where is this guy these days ?

N

[jiminii]

Is it a question that just shouldn't be asked? Is it a challenge to a claim or info given? Is it pointing out inconsistencies, discrepancies, or red flags, and asking how come? Is it an unconscious engram being restimulated, that simply needs to be audited? Is it wondering why the sudden avalanche of Scientology tech here, starting with the introduction of a previously unknown Scientology super hero? Is it wondering why we suddenly have to have a new leader figure to guide us young'uns out of the briar patch?


Hey Fred,

You know what really perplexes me?

Well, it´s the undeniable fact that such subject gained that much traction here based on huge, unverifiable and unfounded claims made by someone who believes to be the second coming of Jesus or something close to it.

This is really impressive; If there was an yearly gullibility award, PA would be a serious candidate to win it.


Raf -- I really understand.

But Simon Parkes claims experiences that can't be proved. Inelia told astonishing stories that can't be proved (including many that were never published: we edited them out of her interview because they were too sensational).

Clif High's calculated predictions can't be proved. (Has anyone checked his math?!) David Icke can't prove his experience when he took ayahuasca in Peru a few years ago and listened to a discarnate women talking to him for many hours.

I saw an ET physically appear in my bedroom in 1984. I can't prove that, either. Neither can Jake prove any of his OBEs.

Henry Deacon can't prove he's been to Mars.

In fact -- the world is FULL of astonishing personal experiences. Most of the most important experiences in anyone's life can't be 'proved'.

But that doesn't mean that someone should not be frustrated or confused at all the bewildering claims. So that's why I understand.

All people can do -- if they can find the courage -- is report their experience. It took over 20 years for me to summon the courage to report my ET experience to anyone other than a couple of friends.

That's why Avalon is an exceptional community: because in the 50,000+ threads we have here, there are hundreds -- maybe thousands -- of personal posts where people have trusted the community enough to share their crazy unprovable stories.

Raf, remember the spiders you 'saw'? That's one example of many. (I won't ask you to prove it! I do not believe you were lying or deluded. But by sharing that story, you actually helped many others who were trying to makes sense of their own experiences.) That's why this is important.

We're all story-telling here, round the campfire -- and that is a time-honored, ancient tradition. Any student of traditional cultures knows that story-telling is a really important activity -- and is not trivial at all. If people learn from the stories... that's what is important.

We do need to be scientists, and I have the deepest respect for you for that commitment within yourself -- but there's also much more to life and experience than just that. Sometimes, we may never know the truth... but can learn from it nonetheless.

Jiminii Crickets(kidding of course) trying to keep up here with all these new threads! Sorry for my late comment.

Can I add something here? Correct me if I'm wrong- Raf I've enjoyed reading your posts for quite some time, but I see an issue where you struggle with specific types of information. The impression I get from reading your posts for the past year is that you are a person who has to see it, touch it, feel it, or taste it, otherwise it doesn't exist. This is a 3D(dimension) belief system and quite common. I've noticed the same expectation from several posters on this forum. I've even asked some of them what kind of proof do they need to believe. In one particular situation, the forum member couldn't answer the question which said to me, they will be searching their entire life because if they can't identify what they consider to be undeniable proof, they will never believe in anything. IMO, this is part of the programming we've been subjected to believe for eons of time. What I've discovered is what we've been taught to believe as real is not necessarily what's real........what's real are often things that we cannot see or touch and cannot be placed within the 3D box belief system described above.

Making this more challenging for yourself, you have commented to me that you don't believe in anything. Well if you don't believe in anything, you will never believe period if you remain steadfast in this direction, so many of these threads on Avalon will be frustrating for you. Might I add that 'not believing in anything' is still a belief.

As some can see, much of what is being discovered to be true, does not fit into the belief system of a 3D paradigm, and as you've probably noticed, the science has not completely caught up. Belief systems are what create realities. If you consistently try to put things under the 3D microscope they will not be real in your reality. I like to use this example a lot because everyone can relate.....Do you dream? and of course you would say 'yes'....my next question would be, prove it! Well this is a no brainer as we know dreams are real, even though we can't physically see everybody's dreams. Many experiences being discussed on Jiminii's threads are subjective in the same manner. This is what's real! This is living in multi-dimensionality. As long as you insist on not believing it will never be real for you. What is it that you fear? Are you afraid that you'll be duped? There is nothing to fear, you cannot make a mistake. Instead of not believing, I like to suggest "shift your set of beliefs as new truths come forward."

I'm just trying to help you connect the dots and I keep hoping whether it be me or someone else, that we say something in a manner that registers and creates that missing link to aid in your understanding. I'm not picking on you, I just want to try and help. If you want out of this 3D paradigm you have to stop thinking with 3D belief systems. We have discussed Epigenetics in the past and I feel the principles behind this science will give you the validation you seek, which is why I shared it with you in the first place. They have done valid scientific studies; you mustn't ignore this fact as it will help you grow in your understanding with the variety of topics discussed on this forum. The tug and pull we are all feeling at times I believe comes from different levels of understanding, where some have shifted their belief systems to match the new truths and others who still insist on applying 3D principles to metaphysical experiences which do not necessarily perform under the antiquated beliefs of a 3D reality.

On a side note, I do understand your reservation towards Jiminii because he's so new to this forum;....you are "vetting" this individual which I think is important to do with anyone. That being said, it does not mean what he's sharing isn't real just because we don't necessarily know who he is or what he's all about. I have yet to get the impression that he thinks he's the "second coming of Christ", but what I see him saying is the same as myself and what I revealed in "The Solutions" thread and that is the "second coming" is you! You have the ability to do the same things he can do, but if you don't believe you will continue on with the 3D status quo. That is the message, many will fail to see if they insist on maintaining the belief systems that enforce powerlessness and reliance of others for one's comfort and existence.

C'mon Raf!!! you're so smart.....I want to take your hand and jump off the cliff with you to help get you over this hurdle. Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding your point of view due to not being able to speak face to face; all I have to go on is the observation of past posts which have lead me to believe that you are more comfortable living under the confines of a 3D belief system which is your right, but many of us are pulling away and embracing new realities that show potential to enhance our world in ways we could have never imagined.

Alright, well I have about 20 more pages to read on the other thread in order to catch up, thanks for listening.



PS As you well know this is what I mean by dimension, NOT the 3D definition which describes the spatial aspects of what a dimension can be. This is a Public Service Announcement and it should be noted that the word police were not contacted and asked for permission to use the definition below. I have chosen to be my own person of moral authority regarding this matter. May the regular scheduled programming not commence from this point forward.....lmao.

DIMENSION- A dimension is a state of consciousness. When you look at what we know about dimensions, what we find is that each is about a unique set of beliefs. Our current 3D consciousness was not established until enough people began to believe the same way. And the current 5D consciousness will not be established until enough of the people existing there figure out how to live in unity. So we see that when enough people live a set of beliefs they create a dimension.

LRH says ...what is true for you is true for you ... it is what you have experienced and seen for yourself ... if you lose that you have lost everything ,..

I have the same trouble believing that I am doing the postulates ... but another thing LRH said is ... that if you put the thought out before it happens then take a win you would at least have to been co-creator of it,
now what I know as fact ... is the rain stopping between 2 traffic signals a block apart ... and the immediate thoughts that happened after that .. the getting of the guitar .. the rain hit the windshield the instant the door closed after I told the girl it will not rain until we get in a car ,,, when the driver stopped to pick us up and said, "i've never picked up a hitch hiker in my life"
when I see this kind of phenomenon I know I am doing it .. but I still can't prove it to this body because this body wants to see the mechanics ... it wants to see what kind of energy the spirit is putting out and how he is putting it out that made the thing happen

when a complete stranger comes up to me and knows my name in bangkok and says "jim you have to go back to USA ... " and I say why and he says "there is a heat wave that killed 800 people" ... now he didn't say I did it ... but the moment he said it I thought "OMG i must have created that when I left Los Angeles and thought how hot thailand would be.
still the body can not see it .. wants to know the mechanics ... and this metteyya thing ... "OMG ..I am metteyya ??? ...what the hell am I going to do with that???? ..no one will believe me" ...

so I have solved this for myself ...in a valid way that will not stop me from being me. I just say .. ok .. it is possible I am doing all this ... and that I can really see some of my thoughts are impossible to NOT BELIEVE ... so I accept the possibility ... with the hope that in the future I will learn the truth of all of it ...
then I can do all my postulates and take a win if they all happen after I postulated it and keep practicing in wonderment ... but it does not stop me from expanding as a being because some implant in me keeps coming up and trying to invalidate the episode ... as BS ... it happens too much and too close sometimes to be BS ... and when it is happening in present time in my immediate vicinity and I try to stop it and feel myself REALLY CONNECT to the weather and watch it violently react to anything I try to put in it from my hand motions .. I immediately have to pull back and say to myself .. "ok I am doing this ... but I don't see what I am doing so I don't know how to control it that well" .. but this doesn't stop me ... I just have to make sure I find the best words and description of what I want to occur and see if I can do it better ... still knowing this body of mine will not believe it ... the things I KNOW ARE TRUE . is when i put out a kind of extension of myself (spirit) and hook on to a piece of this reality .. and pull on it and the wind starts up ... I can actually feel it ... but it doesn't happen all the time ...
we are setup with these implants to NOT LEARN WHO WE ARE AND OBTAIN OUR ABILITIES ... and I haven't seen these implants .. I only read of them ... but I see when I speak to people that it really stirs something inside them ... so I know .. they are looking at something they don't want stirred up ... or the implant stirs it up and something is going on inside that is upsetting them when you just made phenomenon ... and it shakes them up literally and you will have angry japanese angry at you for creating a typhoon and THEY KNOW you did it ... apparently

all I say is that all these processes were designed so you can see ... and validate it yourself ... you can try the postulates using the book as a guide ... and maybe cause a miracle .. and if the miracle happens don't be so anxious to invalidate it .. you will be invalidating yourself ... leave it for the future ... decide to experience it in the hope some day you will be able to see what you are really doing

jim

[Lisab]

@bram great insights. Your on a roll! I met a lady recently, here in my home town, who is a soul midwife. Her job is to ease the death transition for the terminally ill by giving the healing therapies such as reiki, reflexology, massage etc and of course just being a soothing presence with a listening ear. We expect a child to be abe to enter this world with as little trauma as possible, so why not leave the same way? Enjoying your input here x

[Nanoo Nanoo]

...
So now I conclude that death is a major engram, involving not only total amnesia, but total loss of form (note that amnesia following accident-related unconsciousness is very common).

It seems to me now that the trauma resulting from thousands of deaths should be the major target for Clearing, and that falling off my bike at the age of 10 is probably a very minor issue by comparison.

It also seems that being Clear is likely to be a very relative condition statement until we have released the engrams from thousands or millions of previous deaths!

I would love to hear the thoughts of any Freezoners on this……

Love, bram

Bram , what is a freezoner ?

N

[bram]

Bram , what is a freezoner ?
N

Hi Nanoo,

It's a breakaway group from the Cof$, you can find it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Zone_(Scientology)

Love, bram

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Bram , what is a freezoner ?
N

Hi Nanoo,

It's a breakaway group from the Cof$, you can find it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Zone_(Scientology)

Love, bram

Thanks Bram

i immagine this is a better read ?

http://www.ronsorg.com/english/chartaenglish.html

the freedome indicative was used towards the end of the description.

Very impressive information , or should i say " data " ( i could get used to this stuff )

Captain bills speech did impress me muchly. I see now how badly distorted the true message of LRH is with all the negatives being thrown at CoS because of the take over and possibly deliberate cruel running of said enterprise to bring down the good name of the originators heart.

If it wasnt for this thread i could have just written off Scientology as another scam. Thankfully i didnt judge till i dug around and infiormed myself

Cheers

N

[bram]

@bram great insights. Your on a roll! I met a lady recently, here in my home town, who is a soul midwife. Her job is to ease the death transition for the terminally ill by giving the healing therapies such as reiki, reflexology, massage etc and of course just being a soothing presence with a listening ear. We expect a child to be abe to enter this world with as little trauma as possible, so why not leave the same way? Enjoying your input here x

Hi Lisab,

That's a great vocation, isn't it? My sister died in a hospice at age 46 and i was so impressed with the staff there and the quiet way they did their jobs (even though it was largely thru administering huge doses of morphine to the dying). I'm beginning to see death as a part of life, and to see that there is in fact, great beauty in death too.

Love, bram

[Nanoo Nanoo]

@bram great insights. Your on a roll! I met a lady recently, here in my home town, who is a soul midwife. Her job is to ease the death transition for the terminally ill by giving the healing therapies such as reiki, reflexology, massage etc and of course just being a soothing presence with a listening ear. We expect a child to be abe to enter this world with as little trauma as possible, so why not leave the same way? Enjoying your input here x

Hi Lisab,

That's a great vocation, isn't it? My sister died in a hospice at age 46 and i was so impressed with the staff there and the quiet way they did their jobs (even though it was largely thru administering huge doses of morphine to the dying). I'm beginning to see death as a part of life, and to see that there is in fact, great beauty in death too.

Love, bram

I agree , when one has an understanding that their life is eternal then death is not such a sad moment but reminder that a new chapter to the ever lasting soul is ready to begin.

N

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Of possible interest, here is a slightly edited copy of an e-mail I wrote to someone who had applied to join the forum a few days ago. They had been on staff in the Church of Scientology, before being declared 'Suppressive" and booted out after many years. Some of what I wrote may be helpful here.







Dear __________ ,

Many thanks for all the personal info you were generous enough to share.

You should very probably be hearing from the Avalon mods team (separately) about your application in the next day or two. There'll be instructions in the e-mail about how to proceed further that you should read carefully.

Re your message, I was never in the Church. 'Ron's Org' is a Free Zone group, very well-established and well-organized, which is active primarily in Europe and Russia (where there are hundreds of centers and many thousands of people) -- although there are a few Ron's Org auditors in the Americas and also in South Africa.

Ron's Org was founded by 'Captain' Bill Robertson in 1984 (known as 'CBR'), after he and thousands of others had left the Church in the great 1982-83 exodus. There's an enormous amount of information about this which I will be happy to connect you with -- but only if you are interested.

Having said just that, you may find it valuable to read this, which is an interview I did with Dane Tops, the author of the famous Dane Tops letter which I imagine you heard about when in the Church. Do take a look at it. It explains everything that happened.

http://projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.html

LRH's techniques DO work beautifully (if ethically and competently applied). CBR's further research in the 1980s opened the door to many other areas which either LRH did not know about, or never published. I completed my OT 16 in 2004, and am now several levels beyond that. It is a new world up there. Everything that LRH promised to be available, is achievable. He was right all along.

You need to understand that during your time in the Church you have been lied to, controlled, suppressed, mismanaged, misaudited, misjudged, and abused. It's a badge of honor to be declared Suppressive (in almost all cases!). Regard it as a validation, not an invalidation. It's like being in the French Resistance and being declared an enemy of the Nazis in WW II. :)

I was declared Suppressive because I was an outspoken enemy of the Church -- from outside, in the Free Zone.

Meanwhile, Avalon is not primarily about all this at all, and is truly eclectic: it deals with MANY important subjects concerned with global affairs and personal growth. It's just by happenstance that the cluster of LRH threads has appeared just now.

With all good wishes to you -- Bill

[dpwishy]

Bill-
I have been reading a lot about Rons Org.
Could you please explain the "Golden Middle" to me?
I assume its something along the line as the middle path in Buddhism and kabbalah traditions?

Also, could you explain how drugs interact with this process? And I dont mean interact with them in combination, but how drugs would hinder or disrupt this process. This information interests me as I am a shaman and someone who uses plants but I have seen how it hinders vipassana meditation. Where is the line drawn on what a drug is? How long of breaks are needed before auditing can happen between rituals? Are we talking anything that changes the homeostasis of the body or more harder type drugs? The sad truth and I am not sure if it applies in this aspect also but I have found Marijuana to be the light workers kryptonite and a huge hindrance to their work and path. It gives such a false sense of progression when you are really just staying stagnant. So many fall for this trap. I am not saying it does not have its role as an amazing teacher and medicine, but as I look around I find that its a stumbling block for many.

Thanks in advance.

[Hervé]

[...]

Now, to try to clarify further the point about language that I was trying to make in my own post. If we must literally take a course in Dianetic...

[...]Something to consider in view of the "Glossary" that accompanied the first editions of the Dianetics book (of course one would have to know what a "glossary" is and means):



ok so I have been reading the Dianetics book, skimming mainly because it is a lot. I have to be honest, it is putting me to sleep literally.

[...]

You might want to have a look at this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?55117-The-Technological-Revolution-Artificial-Intelligence-and-the-Invisible-Plague&p=636410&viewfull=1#post636410://)<--- especially the third one... the reason why all Scientology books have a warning about not going past a word the reader doesn't understand. The latter makes one yawn and feeling sleepy.

So, if you just skimmed through the book... you might have accumulated quite a number of those :)

One thing to remember, the language used in the Dianetics book was the current, common daily language in the 50s. Hence, if one finds it complicated or using Shakespeare's language... you know what to blame... US's "dumbing down" of its education level... so that one would need the MSM and "news" to do the "'splaining."

That's what causes a rejection of any subject and I do agree that the use of acronyms instead of full words is not conducive to increasing an affinity towards the subject.

LRH, seeing the decline of the education level -- thanks to the influence of the World Mental Health via the bankers with the sponsoring, funding and grants of schools and universities (search "Psychopolitics" to get the idea) -- designed a course on how to study any subject, the basic of which is laid out in the "Study Manual."

On the other hand, many terms have been defined at the beginning of this and other threads, along with links to "glossaries" and dictionaries, and it is taken for granted that one has read the thread from start instead of reading the last few posts...

[eaglespirit]

Bram , what is a freezoner ?
N

Hi Nanoo,

It's a breakaway group from the Cof$, you can find it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Zone_(Scientology)

Love, bram

Thanks Bram

i immagine this is a better read ?

http://www.ronsorg.com/english/chartaenglish.html

the freedome indicative was used towards the end of the description.

Very impressive information , or should i say " data " ( i could get used to this stuff )

Captain bills speech did impress me muchly. I see now how badly distorted the true message of LRH is with all the negatives being thrown at CoS because of the take over and possibly deliberate cruel running of said enterprise to bring down the good name of the originators heart.

If it wasnt for this thread i could have just written off Scientology as another scam. Thankfully i didnt judge till i dug around and infiormed myself

Cheers

N

Th BIG Clean Up...getting to the core of it all in every nook and cranny now in every facet of the manipulators
infiltration of all that is in and around our lives here, there and everywhere.

The massive turnaround enhancing upward mobility is so close I can taste it : )

[Fred Steeves]

On the other hand, many terms have been defined at the beginning of this and other threads, along with links to "glossaries" and dictionaries, and it is taken for granted that one has read the thread from start instead of reading the last few posts...

All great masters throughout time have had the innate ability to condense and relay their knowledge in very simplistic terms, to any given audience, often in the form of story or parable that is easily understood.

They were/are also very humble in the fact that they were/are also a student, albeit on a much different level.

[Bill Ryan]

Bill-
I have been reading a lot about Rons Org.
Could you please explain the "Golden Middle" to me?
I assume its something along the line as the middle path in Buddhism and kabbalah traditions?

Also, could you explain how drugs interact with this process? And I dont mean interact with them in combination, but how drugs would hinder or disrupt this process. This information interests me as I am a shaman and someone who uses plants but I have seen how it hinders vipassana meditation. Where is the line drawn on what a drug is? How long of breaks are needed before auditing can happen between rituals? Are we talking anything that changes the homeostasis of the body or more harder type drugs? The sad truth and I am not sure if it applies in this aspect also but I have found Marijuana to be the light workers kryptonite and a huge hindrance to their work and path. It gives such a false sense of progression when you are really just staying stagnant. So many fall for this trap. I am not saying it does not have its role as an amazing teacher and medicine, but as I look around I find that its a stumbling block for many.

Thanks in advance.

Hi there, and many thanks (thanks also for the PM -- on my long list to reply!)


I'm afraid I don't know what the "Golden Middle" refers to here. Maybe others can clarify. It's not a term which I use or have heard.
Drugs generally interfere with auditing. If one has taken consciousness-altering (or even medical) drugs, one needs to allow a drug-free period before auditing will work properly. This is because (very condensed summary here) although one might be able to perceive a great deal, one's ability to ERASE things is inhibited (which is the whole idea: to get rid of stuff.) Even alcohol gets in the way -- one has to be alcohol-free for 24 hours before a session. With some drugs, it needs to be quite a bit longer.

[Hervé]

On the other hand, many terms have been defined at the beginning of this and other threads, along with links to "glossaries" and dictionaries, and it is taken for granted that one has read the thread from start instead of reading the last few posts...

All great masters throughout time have had the innate ability to condense and relay their knowledge in very simplistic terms, to any given audience, often in the form of story or parable that is easily understood.

They were/are also very humble in the fact that they were/are also a student, albeit on a much different level.

True... and maybe the reason why there are so many interpretations to one parable and skirmishes as to what one word means or was intended to mean in the context of the original text (e.g. Sitchin and his "translation" of Sumerian tablets).

Whereas when one reads an engineering blue print, unless one is totally clueless about the lingua used, there is no squabble as to what it means nor how to go about building the design.

[Bhusunda]

This all resonates strongly in me and I want to dig deeper into it.
When I started to write down my life a few years ago, I got a huge boost from it, and literally made a jump in creativity and joy.
How much more must that be the case if one goes into more detail.

I am reading the book Self Analysis from Ron now as a PDF and it speaks of a disc one should use. Anyone has an idea how this disc looks like so I can reproduce it?

Apart from that the technique reminds me much of Castaneda's 'recapitulation' (Acitive Side of Infinity, Pg.142):


"Its time that you start one of the biggest projects of sorcery," Don Juan said.
"What is this project of sorcery that you are talking about, Don Juan?" I inquired.
"It's called recapitulation," he said. "The old sorcerers used to call it 'recounting of events of your life', and for them it started as a simple technique, a device to aid them in remembering what they were doing and saying to their disciples.
...
"The challenge I am faced with is that in a very compact unit of time I must cram into you everything there is to know about sorcery as an abstract proposition, but in order to do that I have to build the necessary space in you."
"What space? What are you talking about, Don Juan?"
"The premise of the sorcerers is that in order to bring something in, there must be a space to put it in," he said. If you are filled to the brim with the items of everyday life, there's no space for anything new. That space must be built. Do you see what I mean? The sorcerers of olden times believed that the recapitulation of your life made that space. It does, and much more, of course.
The way sorcerers perform the recapitulation is very formal," he went on. "It consists of writing a list of all the people they have met, from the present to the very beginning of their lives. Once they have that list, they take the first person on it and recollect everything they can about that person. And I mean everything, every detail.
...
What practitioners do is to recollect and breathe. They inhale slowly and deliberately, fanning the head from right to left, in a barely noticeable swing, and exhale in the same fashion."

[Hervé]

[...]

I am reading the book Self Analysis from Ron now as a PDF and it speaks of a disc one should use. Anyone has an idea how this disc looks like so I can reproduce it?

[...]

See this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52786-MATRIX-REVEALED-Analysis-Solutions&p=627421&viewfull=1#post627421) <--- (click)

Or here:

http://projectavalon.net/Self_Analysis.pdf

[bram]

Apart from that the technique reminds me much of Castaneda's 'recapitulation'


yes, I thought that too. Although Castaneda doesn't elucidate very much about how recapitulation changed him, he does repeatedly say that it is the most important thing a sorcerer can do- especially because it includes recapturing all the experiences he had in altered consciousness, which are excluded from his normal conscious recollections (much like engrams).

Love, bram

[Daozen]

The recapitulation works for me, but I have to balance it with other meditations, exercise and good diet.... Otherwise the memories can be overwhelming.

I'm not into scientology, but I think Bill might be right that it started with good intentions and then got subverted.

You self-audit everytime you walk out the door. If something annoys/depresses you, you're not 'clear' on that particular emotional loop.

[kirolak]

Thanks, Teradactyl - I have worked with chakras for many years, & was just wondering whether there was any specific mention from LRH of a "wrong" way to work with them. . . . I do not know of anything that could permanently cause damage or "entrap" one, although some methods could lead to temporary imbalances & headaches, no more than that.

[Carmody]

The recapitulation works for me, but I have to balance it with other meditations, exercise and good diet.... Otherwise the memories can be overwhelming.


That is the whole issue and point. The emotional memories --- clouding, shaping, directing, interfering with thought formation.

to re-center, re-integrate all the neural and formative aspects for thought and most specifically..thought formation. Thoughts originate in the emotions and survival mechanisms (base programming), first.

Thoughts originate in the body integration/actuation, then proto-vocal, then rise into shape and then rise into word-meanings which come out as spoken word, internally spoken voice in the frontal lobe. The path your development took from birth to childhood, where the internal voice began at about age 5 (for most of us), that is the path of thought creation and expression. Every time we have a thought, that is the way it happens - a repeat of the path of development - every time.

Now recall the times your thoughts where clouded by emotions. Once can probably find that in the now, as in today some time, for most of us. Then one can understand what I speak of. emotions not controlling thought, but being deeply involved in the formation of thought. No emotional body clearing, no extreme intelligence and/or full body/dimensional connection. People can get that dimensional connection without the clearing of the self, but it will be, the vast number of cases...quite skewed and colored.

Thus, to be 'clear', is to be clear of the polarization, the change and alteration in the formation of thoughts. which requires a thorough clearing of the emotional self, the original self which we launch our projection into this space and place (dimension and connections) out of. It is also a two way connection.

One clearing ....brings about another.

Again, no dianetics experience, just old fashioned clearing of the self. And in that act, extreme health and meditation, etc..was required. This is to enable the correction to be as best it can. The brain, the physical vehicle must be enabled to be able to be it's best. This means a health regimen and a mediation regimen.


Edit: earthquake tremor.

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Quite a number of people have PMed me to ask me for advice and recommendations on contacting auditors.

This post is intended to be a catch-all pool of resources which I can link people to.

Avalon Member James Newell (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?30394-James-Newell) is also highly trained and experienced. He's based in the US, but works over Skype with people all over the world. His website is http://getmoreable.com.

Here are a few web pages which contain links to auditors:


https://web.archive.org/web/20170430045830/http://www.ronsorg.com:80/english/linksenglish.htm
http://freezoneauditors.org/auditor (http://www.freezoneauditors.org/auditor)
http://freeandable.com/business-listings/by-category/65-auditors.html
http://internationalfreezone.net/certified-auditors.shtml

I can recommend everyone listed on the Ron's Org site (#1 above). There's also an active and thriving Ron's Org group in South Africa, and another excellent Ron's Org auditor in the Los Angeles area. Neither of the above are publicly listed, and neither are a number of other folks in Europe who I could recommend.

On the other three pages (#2,3,4 above), there are only a few auditors which I know. Having said that,


I *can* recommend the Life Enhancement Center in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, at http://lifeenhance.org. I know the guys there, and one Avalon member whom I know has also spent a lot of highly productive time there.

I've heard good personal reports about the following:


Ken Urquhart: kenneth.urquhart@gmail.com (highly experienced, and knew LRH personally, based in the UK)
Rolf Dane: rolf_dane@yahoo.com and http://rolfdane.com (who works via Skype, based in Copenhagen)
David St Laurence: david.stlawrence@gmail.com
Robert Ducharme: allphaomega@earthlink.net (who works via Skype or telephone, based in Florida)
The Clearbird group: info@clearbird.org, http://clearbird.org and http://freezoneearth.org/Clearbird/index.htm

I have no doubt there are many others. My not mentioning someone here might simply mean that I've never heard of them (and they might be excellent).

The following I do not know:


Mark Robson (roppa_uk@hotmail.com, basic Dianetic auditing, as best I understand)
Mike Maylam (Milton Keynes) -- but he may not be working at the moment (Write to the Ron's Org Committee at this link (https://ronsorg.com/contact_us) to ask: they speak good English)
Victoria Ballard, near Brighton, so maybe not too far for Londoners to travel. (I do not know her e-mail address, but can find out.)

It's entirely possible that anyone you contact may in turn be able to recommend others. I'll be happy to assist (if I can) if, for instance, you make contact with someone and then would like to check out or clarify with myself what they have told you. You're can always contact me by PM, and non-member visitors to the forum are welcome to e-mail me at bill@projectavalon.net.

I hope this is not too much of a confusion. There are many individuals operating totally independently, not allied to any one group. Others work on personal reference only, and never publicize themselves. Ron's Org is a little different inasmuch as they accredit their auditors, and are a very efficient and effective organization. I know many of the people involved there (some of them very well), and can recommend them fully. But the drawback is that they are almost entirely situated in Europe and Russia.

[Agape]

Hello Bill . What about any ancient artifacts ? Did Ron Hubbard had any physical evidence or do some of his followers believe such evidence is hidden, in coverns of Nebraska for example .


:llama:

[soleil]

i want to say thanks to bram, for your sharing of dianetics. i still havent gotten much farther in the DMSMH pdf yet, but i look forward to experiencing more ah ha moments/engrams.

[Hervé]

For the "new wave" of walk-outs establishing themselves as "Indies" or "Independents" and joining Ron's Org and the Freezoners in their "efforts" (not so much efforts anymore since Miscavige doesn't have a foot left to shoot) to spread Ron's "tech" in their vicinity:

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/

On the right hand side there is a blogroll of independents.

Marty himself, as well as his wife Monique AKA "Mosey" are auditors sticking to the original tech and approach to life.

[Christine]

...I was not completely clear in what I meant.ng ambiguous about who and what I was referring to with my reference to the Greek language. I hope you will forgive me. My error was not intentional.

Now, to try to clarify further the point about language that I was trying to make in my own post. If we must literally take a course in Dianetic and Scientology terminology in order for us to intelligently discuss it, then I think that the proper place for that is in a specialized forum. But personally, I don't agree with Hubbard or the proponents of Scientology that Hubbard's specialized language must be mastered in order for someone to be able to understand the essential points and value of the parts of his system, or tool as Bill put it, that actually work. I suspect that the truth within his system can be expressed in more than one way, and certainly simpler than he and his Church did it. As I said, I think that their "Scientologese" actually constituted a form of verbal mental entrainment, or in other words brainwashing, whether they intended it to be such or not.

If it turns out that I am wrong on this point, I will be glad to change my view on it and admit my error.

My intended point was to say that when the general population here in the forum is addressed about a subject, a commonly understood level of speech really should be used.

Hi Lakewatcher,

I have been trying to find time to address your point of view and offer mine. First I love language and very much enjoy having my neural pathways tweaked. I believe we are beings of frequency so the spoken word evokes a great deal of intuitive understanding beyond the literal meanings.

There are two issues here, one is that it has been difficult to understand jiminii's post due to the overuse of Scientology jargon. If you notice he has adjusted as he became aware that this was hampering him getting his message out.

The second is the extension of our linguistic understanding. From Sanskrit to present language (sound) has contained more than the literal meaning of any word. I am sure that Hubbard chose the words to describe our condition purposely. Not only the Greek meaning but the resonance they induce.

All language does "constitutes a verbal form of entrainment", as you put it. We can't get out of that meme, whether we are speaking Greek, English or Swahili. So when someone like Hubbard has the desired goal of breaking people free from their conformity and complacency a new word to describe something like Spirit must be put into use. People have a preconceived notion of what Spirit means. But a word like Thetan requires that we stretch and investigate anew.

I grant that the Church of Scientology has turned these new descriptive words into a elitist sect and their usage has turned them into what you describe.

I firmly believe though that the members of Avalon have a lot of experience, discernment and intelligence in dealing with a different conceptual presentation such as in this thread, which is doing an admirable job.

A personal anecdote, I had a day long conversation with a good friend as we wrestled with differing points of view about the universe, our origins and the existential meaning of life.... you get the picture. We found the limits of our language frustrating as we tried to describe our differing experiences.

What we both agreed upon at the end of the day was this. We are our perceptions, what is perceptually true for one is their truth. We are each unique perceptual realities.

If something comes down your path that opens your perceptions and causes you expand your reality then your universe grows.

Christine

[bram]

Thoughts originate in the body integration/actuation, then proto-vocal, then rise into shape and then rise into word-meanings which come out as spoken word, internally spoken voice in the frontal lobe. The path your development took from birth to childhood, where the internal voice began at about age 5 (for most of us), that is the path of thought creation and expression. Every time we have a thought, that is the way it happens - a repeat of the path of development - every time.

Now recall the times your thoughts where clouded by emotions. Once can probably find that in the now, as in today some time, for most of us. Then one can understand what I speak of. emotions not controlling thought, but being deeply involved in the formation of thought. No emotional body clearing, no extreme intelligence and/or full body/dimensional connection. People can get that dimensional connection without the clearing of the self, but it will be, the vast number of cases...quite skewed and colored.


Hi Carmody,

These two paragraphs jumped off the screen at me. Can I ask a couple of questions?

1. Can you expand the first part...'Thoughts originate in the body integration/actuation, then proto-vocal,' and explain this process in a bit more detail?
2. You say they come from here to be vocalized- i think we are all familiar with hearing things for the first time when we say them- but what if they are not vocalized? Are our thoughts expressed by being silently spoken within, or can they come to understanding without words?
3. Why do you say that the inner voice only kicks in at around 5? I assumed it was with us from the moment we begin to understand words.
4. How exactly are emotions deeply involved in the formation of thoughts?

Great post btw,

love, bram

[Tantauri]

Dear Friends,

I can personally vouch for two more. Both have years of valuable experience and are quite capable. They have withstood multiple personal attacks from the Church. A sure sign that they are effective. Link below with credentials.


TO ACHIEVE ADVANCED SPIRITUAL STATES.

My team and I are available to travel in USA and Europe.

We deliver in English, Spanish and Italian.

Center for Spiritual Research and its applications

.

ITALIANO/ENGLISH: e-mail:


RiSpiritualPath@gmail.com

ESPANOL/ENGLISH: e-mail: dianaclass8@yahoo.com

http://aidathomas.wordpress.com/2011...de-the-church/

.

ITALY: Ri/Maurice Pascal

maurice.pascal007@yahoo.com

.

Ri

.

Class VI (SHSBC), Class IV C/S and OT 7+.

RiSpiritualPath@gmail.com

[dpwishy]

What is the cost to go through this type of auditing? I am sure it is done at an hourly rate? After I looked at the amount of time you would need to audit for and then calculate paying for a service, it seems like one would spend a HUGE amount of cash to even get clear, let alone higher levels. I understand an energy exchange is needed but this has always been a red flag in my path for some reason. Or shall I say more of an alarm that warns me to look closer at something and make sure the energy exchange is fair for both parties.

[jiminii]

so how do you make your postulates worrk

you choose your words wisely

I want is pulling
i don't want is pushing
I need is pulling
I don't need is pushng
I like being with you iis not pushing or pulling and she will agree

how about finding the perfect girl
well when you want to find out if you like a candy bar or not ..you have to be willing to waste the candy bar

so I get on a dating site and I put my poems there and I don't talk sex ... that is the biggest turn off ever
it shows you are not interested in her you only want her body

I put my poems out there and I end up with about 200 or more chinese girls wanting to talk to me ...

I have so many emails that asianfriendfinder stops my emails and wants to know if I am trying to sell something or do something illegal
I have to call them and tell them I am only sending them my poems

they turned on my email

now you have sooooooooooooooo many girls you can't decide because all of them have this Chinese think of looking at marriage like a kind of business

it means what can they get ... type stuff ... and i get a girl who says she is looking for someone to inspire her

and I send her my poems .. she is in a remote part of china not a place i would look ... but she is perfect ...

so we got married

how about jobs
the biggest and best jobs i got in aerospace with the biggest in the world I simply go in
and let them hire me.

you see the recruiter wants to hire you ... so he has all this stuff he has to say about his company to impress you
so I let him run out his entire tape recorder in his head
smile and keep saying " good .. right ... sounds good .. I got i ... "
at the end of the conversation he knows nothing about me ..and I know everything about him .. so I must be the smartest man in the world ...

so he says "have you got any questions?"
I say, "you got any overtime?" they love this

he says "oh yes plenty of overtime."

he says, "do you want to know the benefits "
I say, " no the over time is ok for me"

he says, "when can you start?"
I say "I can start now"

he says, "ok show up monday"

postulates work by the wording ... if you don't want the effort counter effort then choose words that don't effort either way
if you don't want the pulling pushing ... from reverse vectors ... don't choose words that are pulling or pushing

simple

jim

[bram]

What is the cost to go through this type of auditing? I am sure it is done at an hourly rate? After I looked at the amount of time you would need to audit for and then calculate paying for a service, it seems like one would spend a HUGE amount of cash to even get clear, let alone higher levels. I understand an energy exchange is needed but this has always been a red flag in my path for some reason. Or shall I say more of an alarm that warns me to look closer at something and make sure the energy exchange is fair for both parties.

HI dpwishy, I share your concerns. You could try self-clearing first (its free!!) and get as far as you can, then go to an expert to work thru any problems you couldn't resolve alone. At least that's my plan currently.

love, bram

[jiminii]

Re: the murder of LRH
Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
Posted by turiya (here)
[...]

Just can't help but to post the following in a kind of response...

turiya
Why not post this in Bill's Q&A thread?

I'll be very interested in his own answer because, as far as I am concerned, Osho is advocating the very premise of Scientology, the philosophy, since Scientology is an applied philosophy that has taken on the "religion" label because it deals with "theta"/"spirit"/spirituality which, by definition, is the domain of "religion":

STATIC,
1. a static is something without mass, without wavelength, without time, and actually without position. That’s a static and that is the definition of zero. (5410CM06)

2 . a static by definition, is something that is in a complete equilibrium. It isn’t moving and that’s why we’ve used the word static. Not in an engineering sense but in its absolute dictionary sense. (5608C--)

3 . an actuality of no mass, no wave-length, no position in space or relation in time, but with the quality of creating or destroying mass or energy, locating itself or creating space, and of re-relating time. (Dn 55!, p. 29)

4 . something which has no motion. The word is from the Latin, sto meaning stand. No part of mest can be static, but theta is static. Theta has no motion. Even when the mest it controls is moving in space and time, theta is not moving, since theta is not in space or time. (Abil 114A)

5 . has no motion, it has no width, length, breadth, depth; it is not held in suspension by an equilibrium of forces; it does not have mass; it does not contain wave-lengths; it has no situation in time or space. (Scn 8-8008, p. 13)

6 . the simplest thing there is is a static, but a static is not nothingness. These are not synonyms. We speak of it carelessly as a nothingness. That’s because we say nothingness in relationship to the space and objects of the material universe. Life has a quality. It has an ability. When we say nothingness we simply mean it has no quantity. There is no quantitative factor. (5411CM05)


THETAN,
1. the living unit we call, in Scn, a thetan, that being taken from the Greek letter theta, the mathematic symbol used in Scn to indicate the source of life and life itself. (Abil Ma 1)

2 . the awareness of awareness unit which has all potentialities but no mass, no wave-length and no location. (HCOB 3 Jul 59)

3 . the being who is the individual and who handles and lives in the body. (HCOB 23 Apr 69)

4 . (spirit) is described in Scn as having no mass, no wave-length, no energy and no time or location in space except by consideration or postulate. The spirit is not a thing. It is the creator of things. (FOT, p. 55)

5 . the personality and beingness which actually is the individual and is aware of being aware and is ordinarily and normally the “person” and who the individual thinks he is. The thetan is immortal and is possessed of capabilities well in excess of those hitherto predicted for man. (Scn 8-8008, p. 9)

6 . the name given to the life source. It is the individual, the being, the personality, the knowingness of the human being. (Scn 8-80, p. 46)

7 . energyspace production unit. (COHA, p. 247)

8 . in the final analysis what is this thing called thetan? It is simply you before you mocked yourself up and that is the handiest definition I know of. (5608C——)

9 . the person himself—not his body or his name, the physical universe, his mind, or anything else; that which is aware of being aware; the identity which is the individual. The thetan is most familiar to one and all as you. (Aud 25 UK)

1 0 . a static that can consider, and can produce space and energy and objects . (PXL, p . 121 )


VIEWPOINT,
1. a point of awareness from which one can perceive. (PAB 2)

2 . that thing which an individual puts out remotely, to look through. A system of remote lookingness— we’ll call it just remote viewpoint. That’s a specialized kind of viewpoint. And the place from which the individual is himself looking, we’ll call flatly a viewpoint. (2ACC 17A, 5312CM07)

3 . evaluation is the reactive mind’s conception of viewpoint. The reactive mind does not perceive, it evaluates. To the analytical mind it may sometimes appear that the reactive mind has a viewpoint. The reactive mind does not have a viewpoint, it has an evaluation of viewpoint. Thus the viewpoint of the analytical mind is an actual point from which one perceives. Perception is done by sight, sound, smell, tactile, etc. The reactive mind’s ‘viewpoint’ is an opinion based on another opinion and upon a very small amount of observation, and that observation would be formed out of uncertainties. Thus the confusion of the word viewpoint itself. It can be a point from which one can be aware, which is its analytical definition, and it can be somebody’s ideas on a certain subject which is the reactive definition. (CONA, pp. 208-209)
from these definitions you can see if we use the definition of thetan is the spirit
then viewpoint is a point he views from

in the time track of theta tapes LRH says a thetan can operate more than one body

therefore .. it must have more than one viewpoint ...
and each viewpoint has it's own individual track
and it's own individual memory banks

that is how I see it ... if we are operating more than one body

jim

[deridan]

about those worried about through reading, i've read this thread, only enough to see the dusty wind and know the reason for -moves--- and moves (if the latter is counterattacks, the first would be attacks or imposition ...i calculate from zero, for in such a perfect creation, action must be the most well thought thing --so i've heard in some realm-) {no books yet}

something is troubling me for something taken for granted.
what are ennegrams, (why the thought that it can be erased, ..i knew that when a youngling ere-d with the technical/programming language they applied erasure to past life stuffies..... more rubbish, even an ignant like me would preceive. awareness is the apriopri, to say that anything can be done with it ..mere stupidity,unless one were at some overprespective)
ennegrams, as i'd accept, as to present life situations _embrodelments
....but still a question
from a source systematically describing ennegrams, the bees nees I see to the situation,
is that an ennegram typification can represent you,
it has its own strengths linked closely to the desires selflogical which would call it,
..but the weakness attached to a said ennegram typification... is often that, just a weakness, a blind and damage accumulated..
so what,
erasure would not be the term to apply to it,,,, merely knowledgable recompense

please somebody enlighten me from this fundamental,
...which sometimes makes the rest of u look as quirky to me as this posting may seem - no apology
...perhaps i've heard of enegram animals, and mine was an eagle, so is my mode, diffuse in _ _

[TheVoyager]

[..cut..]
Now, if we accept that we have engrams from past lives, this leads to a further two possibilities: either:

(a) that we have a ‘soul’ which continues in this body from life to life, taking with it the results of actions performed in previous lives which may be called karma, including engrams, further adding to this karma by our actions in our current life, or
(b) that our engrams are passed to us genetically by our parents in cellular form in the zygote. [..cut..] Therefore either (i) our engram load is increasing continuously and has done so for thousands (millions?) of years, placing us in possession of millions of unresolved engrams, or (ii) engrams have a finite life, and tend to fade with the passage of time.
[..cut..]


Hi Bram,

I don't know about Scientology, but your question reminded me of Holographic Kinetics by Steve Richards (discussed elsewhere on the forum), so here's his answer in case your interested in correlating different practices:

If they are talking about the same thing - in HK you among other things also look at issues that caused pain in this/past lives and blow that of your timeline - the engrams would come BOTH:
- from your own soul/spirit timeline indefinitley, and
- from your ancestors down to the seventh generation. (At least when I did a session only issues up to 7 generations down the timeline were considered, so I think that's it). No idea where that cut-off time comes from though :)

Thanks for your thought-provoking questions, I never considered how these things might multiply if there was no cut-off date... I hope HK is right and there IS a cut-off date, otherwise the accummulation would be astronomical.


From what I understand, the part of Holographic Kinetics that works is all based on Dianetics, repackaged in a slightly different format.


Hi Bill,

First of all I want to say that I appreciate very much the information and knowledge about the R. Hubbard tech that you and other members of the forum (jim, amzer zo etc.) are providing here.

On the other hand I find it intriguing that you would state the following:

"From what I understand, the part of Holographic Kinetics that works is all based on Dianetics, repackaged in a slightly different format."

... since I've read your reply to Music on his thread "Bill, Why Dianetics is Not For Me" (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59506-Bill-Why-Dianetics-is-Not-For-Me&p=680533&viewfull=1#post680533), and if I understand correctly your above statement, you are saying that there is a part of HK that works and there is a part that doesn't work, and the part that does work is all based on Dianetics.

I would like to ask you the following questions:

On what do you base your understanding about the HK technology?
Is it that you've had a HK session or maybe you have even made a HK course?
According to your understanding, which part of HK works and which part it doesn't work?

Thank you.

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Hi, All:

I received a very interesting question by PM, my reply to which I thought it might be interesting to copy here.

********


I was curious to ask you a question. Have you ever been able to get outside the game completely? And I mean all levels, out of the simulation all together. And by this I mean all levels of astral and all other layers to the onion that is the game. I have a hard time finding people that have had a view point outside of the game all together and was wondering if this is something you have experienced?



Hi there, and many thanks for the interesting question.

The answer is yes, on quite a few occasions. The most vivid I recall was when I was so 'exterior' that I had the distinct multisensory impression of being able to hold all of reality, like some kind of god-figure, in the palm of my hand. The experience lasted a few minutes, and I've never forgotten it.

I've had other interesting experiences, also. One I remember lasted a few hours, when I was so totally conscious that I was 'creating' everything around me that I was having a blast driving round bends on a winding road on the wrong side of the road, knowing that there would be no oncoming cars: total certainty, no fear, all in the spirit of play. (Needless to say, I also 'created' a happy outcome: or else I would not be here now still in this body. :))

Countless other people have had these kinds of experience also, and they are not restricted in any way to the results of scientology processing. But the simple answer is Yes.

However, none of the experiences have been 'stable' -- i.e. long-lasting. I strongly suspect that that is because of the very strong background intention to be IN this reality, playing 'Games' (so to speak), where the outcome is not certain or assured.

Sitting with an exterior viewpoint is an interesting novelty, but after a while it gets boring as unlimited powers lose their appeal. If all the mountains to climb were reduced to a flat, level plain -- then all the fun of mountaineering would be lost.

We need those unknowns in order to have fun. It's only when things get out of balance that it doesn't feel like so much fun any more.

:)

With very best wishes, Bill