Cannabis legislation / legalization

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Right before you posted this, I had made a local request for an MMJ approval, LOL. :)

I am surprised that the Swiss are doing this, because they are quite invested in the drug industry (Hoffman LaRoche etc) and stand to lose a bit if people use weed instead of RX ****.

Thank you for posting. I feel somehow vindicated.


Before I start complaining, please note that I as a patient believe that naturopaths are among the only doctors who seem to consistently notice small details. They are less lazy and generally more informed than the traditional American doctor. It was a naturopath who first noticed my elevated liver enzymes -- no one else noticed or cared! So, thank you for what you do for people.

Pre-Existing Conditions:

Asthma (since Childhood, documented -- but I don't have current records). First hospitalized at age 3, Three Rivers Medical Center in Louisa, KY. Saw many doctors in KY and Texas re: management of asthma via inhalers. Marijuana seems to inhibit whatever process causes the asthma symptoms. I know other people who use marijuana to treat their childhood onset asthma.


Back Pain: I had the bad luck of being injured in the US Air Force in 2005. I was asked by a superior NCO to hold the control column of a C-130H aircraft while power was disengaged (this is illegal). The wind blew hard, the tail of the aircraft went downward, and my back was pulled quite severely. I was unable to return to work for 3 days after this incident, my bosses covered it up, and I've suffered back pain ever since.

The month after this USAF injury happened, I was rear-ended on the Interstate (I-64). It hurt my back very badly -- no broken bones, but nothing felt the same since the accident. It was documented by the West Virginia police in 2005 (perhaps the police in the nearby town -- I went there to get a police report for my insurance company). The pain seemed to worsen during my subsequent pregnancy in 2007. Marijuana seems to lessen the pain when this injury is aggravated.

PTSD: I suffer a lot of stress due to the behavior of my father during my childhood and also due to accidents I witnessed in the US Air Force. I find that marijuana lessens the severity and lucidity of fear associated with these memories.

Anti-Cancer properties: as a USAF veteran, I was exposed to agents such as Benzene, sealants that can cause leukemias, propylene glycol, and others. I feel that regular use of marijuana may inhibit any development of tumors or growths that might occur due to military workplace exposures.

Anti-Seizure properties: I was on Lamictal for a long time, but due to undesirable side effects, I ceased usage of that drug. I know that marijuana decreases the severity of the brain signaling associated with seizures and am interested in this application of the medication.

thank you for reviewing my case.

[Vitalux]

Thought this would be of interest to show that even Internationally, attitudes are changing.

It is strange in a way, that a plant that has the potential to help humanity so much, has been demonized.
Perhaps it is time for a change of understanding.
It should be not be a crime to grow or possess it.



http://media.npr.org/assets/news/2010/06/10/greenhouse_sq-6eda5b7eff6d2c59ce1af877e58075f743485d92.jpg?s=16

Legalizing marijuana would generate more than $450 million annually for the Israeli economy, according to a new study released by the Jerusalem Institute for Market Studies.

The black market for cannabis in Israel currently is worth $707 million annually, and legalizing the sale of grass, if taxed like cigarettes, would blow $268 million into the government’s money pot. In addition, it would save law enforcement agencies $198 million since they would not have to spend money to smokers of weed.

The study found that approximately 275,000 Israelis, 4 percent of the population, used marijuana in the past year, only 26 percent of Israelis support legalization of marijuana, while 64 percent opposes it.

In the United States, slightly more than half go those surveyed support legalizing grass. Marijuana is illegal under federal law, but 20 states to allow the use of medical marijuana. However, the Obama administration last week gave the green light for Colorado and Washington to carry out their laws to permit recreational use of marijuana.

The Justice Department said it would bring charges on marijuana only in certain cases, such as distributing it to minors.

The announcement “demonstrates the sort of political vision and foresight from the White House we’ve been seeking for a long time,” said Ethan Nadelmann, executive director of the Drug Policy Alliance, an advocacy group.

The Justice Department added that it is watching Colorado and Washington closely to see if they can properly control marijuana use.

President Barack Obama has said he smoked grass when he was young, and a federal survey has found that 42 percent of Americans age 12 and older have smoked marijuana at some point in their lives.

The financial gains for states – and Israel is not being ignored,

“Recognizing the enormous financial gains that would come from legalization demands that the government take a serious look at the proposal to legalize cannabis use under specific guidelines,” said Yarden Gazit, who co-authored the study in Israel. “There is no disputing that if the public is able to get past the wholly negative misperceptions associated with marijuana usage and appreciate the potential benefits with limited social or healthcare costs, this is an idea that needs open-minded and serious re-examination at this time.”

News of the survey coincided with Canada’s launch of controlled medical marijuana, an industry that is expected to be worth more than $1 billion in the next 10 years. Medical marijuana has been legal in Canada for years but has been highly regulated. Now it is available by mail-order with a doctor’s approval.

Besides all of the arguments over whether marijuana is a drug that can lead to addiction, the underlying desire for governments to legalize it is money.

“We’re fairly confident that we’ll have a healthy commercial industry in time,” Sophie Galarneau, a senior Health Canada official told the Canadian Press.

The Green Leaf party in Israel has been trying to get into the Knesset for years to push its agenda to legalize pot. In early pre-election polls, it usually receives support that puts it on the brink of winning the minimum number of votes to win Knesset seats, but when the real ballots are counted, it always loses out.

The pro-marijuana campaigns in the United States may generate new enthusiasm to legalize marijuana in Israel, where liberal leaders almost always turn to American for cultural guidance.

Portland, Maine media reported Wednesday that supports of legalizing recreation marijuana will start promoting their agenda on city buses, with a message that grass is a better and safer alternative to alcohol.

Critics have complained that the campaign should not be on buses because children ride them to school.

Portland’s voter will go the ballot box in November to decide on a proposal to legalize marijuana by 2016. I

The Washington, D.C.-based Marijuana Policy Project has targeted Maine and nine other states in its campaign to legalize grass within three years.



Source:
The Jewish Press
http://www.jewishpress.com/news/legalizing-marijuana-would-end-black-market-says-israeli-study/2013/10/02/

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Thank you for posting this. Hopefully within our lifetimes, bias against natural medicines will lessen enough to allow equality between patients who tow the party line on pharmaceuticals and patients who opt for organic medicines.

I've seen too many people lose their lives, or at least, important parts of their lives, to alcohol. And it's not fair to the recreational smoking community that doctors and mayors be paranoid about the interpretation of the law.

There are many hit-and-runs per week where I live (Eastern WA). This is a big drinking town/area. Lots of gambling.
It would be refreshing to see the return of the "Salon" style establishment, where people trade opinions and smoke together (like Starbucks minus coffee and internet);
with any luck it might replace some of the bars.

People who smoke pot don't leave their cans behind in parks. They don't "drink one for the road to get their courage up to drive home".
Some of them even write books thanks to the experience of cannabis.

One good thing about legalization is, you know whether you are getting indica or sativa.
People don't all need to be tired and burned out because of their downer strain.
Without the help of a knowledgeable grower or doctor, it's easy to make a mistake and end up with something wrong for the patient/user.

I've yet to meet someone who limits their drinking to "one or two drinks". I know they exist, but gosh. it's like an endangered species.

[Snowflower]

sigh... guess what? when marijuana plants are flooded with ten inches of water, they drown. 14 of the most beautiful plants you've ever seen (grown by four people - totally legal) all turned brown. potatoes too, don't like sitting under a foot of water for two weeks. squash, onions, tomatoes, herbs...all gone.

[Ivanhoe]

Dude, when we were smokin' in the 60's we knew the gov could make a heck of a profit, just like with alchohol. Think of all the revenue.....
Oh, I forgot, they had to keep it illegal so they could control it and raise the prices to fuel the coffers of the 3 letter agencies. LOL
Sheesh,.. talk about organised crime....

[Snowflower]

Yes, as one of their sources for the capital needed to build their DUMBS.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

An Inside Scoop on Seattle Justice System circa Oct 2013


http://www.hasslefreeclipart.com/clipart_medical/images/stretcher.gif

Key points of thread:
~Man on probation sentenced to jailtime, loses probation credit, over marijuana usage in a state where even recreational pot is Legal
~Public defender unable to mount any type of effective defense on behalf of above gentleman
~Defendant in question suffered a heart attack/passed out when judge revoked probation and sentenced him over a marijuana UA result
~Seattle Prosecutor and a public defender were laughing in the hall about this man who was pretty much dying in the courtroom
~Judge seemed to be suffering PMS that day but he is a man
~Horrified court attendees watched heavily-sentenced mentally-disabled man wheeled out of courtroom on stretcher

Hello, Avalon. As some of you know, I had to go to court this week. This gave me the chance to observe the "justice system" at work in the lives of others. I won't mention how my own case went, as it just encourages certain trolls to stalk me, so I'll tell you a story about someone else who had to be there Thursday, and how the court treated him.

About an hour into the 1:30pm court session, a fairly young man went forward when his name was called and sat in the hot seat. He had the same public defender who was supposed to represent my own case. Therefore, I had an interest in how his case played out, and watched.

The man was white, fairly heavy, maybe about 250 lbs -- stocky and strong, although kind of round. He had the kind of body I associate with some of the slower students in high school, actually. Like perhaps something wasn't completely normal with his metabolism or whatever; he was just a big guy. He had brownish hair, maybe a touch of red, sideburns.

This fellow had been in some trouble before. Perhaps around the time he graduated from high school, he started having trouble with the law. He looked my age. The judge pointed out that this man had what he called an "extensive and severe criminal record". However, no examples were given to the court or to the public present. We had to "take the judge's word for it" that this man was indeed a career criminal. It seemed a bit unlikely to me that a slower individual could be a "career criminal". He didn't seem the type.

He was respectful to the judge, thoughtful albeit slow, did not slouch, sneer, fidget, or complain. He didn't cry into the microphone like the girls on trial, and he didn't make excuses beyond the facts of his life, such as supporting his family and keeping appointments with doctors and with probation.

This young man had been dragged into court because he failed a random U/A, or Urinalysis. He had been forced into submitting to U/A either by the courts or by his contract with Probation. The drug in question was marijuana. The Seattle Municipal Court was attempting to force this gentleman off of his marijuana and to take such medications as a psychiatrist recommends. In this case, the Rx drug mentioned was Zoloft.

Zoloft, if you look at Wikipedia, is not indicated strongly for people with social anxiety or PTSD. It doesn't work well that way. It's a straight-up antidepressant, manufactured for adult use due to the horrific side effects of earlier drugs. The murder trial of the child Christopher Pittman involved a discussion of Zoloft:


Christopher Frank Pittman (born April 9, 1989 in Florida) was convicted in 2005 of murdering his grandparents, Joe and Joy Pittman, at age 12, on November 28, 2001. The case drew national attention in part because of his age at the time of the crime and in part because his defense that the prescription drug Zoloft caused him to act.

At age twelve Pittman ran away from home, threatened suicide, was picked up by police, and confined to a facility for troubled or runaway children. He was confined there for six days. While there, he was put on Paxil for mild depression.[1] His father, Joe sent him away from their home in Oxford, Florida, to live with his grandparents in Chester, South Carolina, where he frequently visited. His paternal grandparents had been a source of stability to him for years in a life with a mother who had run out on him twice[2] and a father who Pittman claimed to have been abusive.[3]

His doctor in Chester, having no samples of Paxil to give Pittman, gave him samples of Zoloft instead. Although both drugs are SSRIs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) with similar modes of selective action, abruptly substituting one for the other is usually not advisable.[citation needed] Almost immediately Pittman allegedly began to experience negative side-effects from the new medication; his sister went so far as to describe him as "manic."[3] He purportedly experienced a burning sensation all over his body which required pain medication. He complained about the side effects of the drug. At a subsequent doctor's visit, his dosage was increased from 100 mg daily to 200 mg daily. Zoloft does have several side-effects in children, including aggravated depression, abnormal dreams, paranoid reactions, hallucinations, aggressive behavior and delusions.[4] Risks from overdose include potential "manic reactions."

If you read the above you can see why I would never give Zoloft to someone who is "slow" or "immature" in any way; it would be like giving it to a little kid. And anyway, the man I saw at court said his doctor was on the verge of prescribing Zoloft to replace marijuana.

The judge was supposed to evaluate the severity of the breach of contract with probation. He was also supposed to proscribe a suitable punishment, if needed. At no point was the current legality of marijuana in Washington state mentioned. It was as if this city judge was operating in total ignorance of the state law, and furthermore, he chose to be extremely cruel to this young man. The judge revoked nearly 300 days of probation served when all the probation officer recommended was 60 days' revocation.

Now, anyone on this forum who has been near Seattle knows that medical marijuana stores now outnumber 7-11 Stores in what I'd say is a 10:1 ratio. They are everywhere. Sometimes even next door to each other. Now, having lived in Seattle for almost 6 years, I don't remember seeing that many sick people. Yeah, there is cancer, sure, and obesity, and all the other "normal" diseases. But what I've noticed consistently is that most Seattle residents are more crazy than physically ill. Which suggests that many former "mental patients" have cooked up excuses for purchasing marijuana "legally" in Seattle and this demographic is driving sales, along with recreational users who are outright malingering in order to get a marijuana prescription. This is one of the reasons I was glad that recreational use was legalized here. I was tired of people lying about "needing" it.

But this man I saw in court, gosh. If marijuana was the only drug the court was screening him over, it means that the man was self-medicating, or perhaps using recreationally on a frequent basis, however you want to think of it. And the court knew he was dependent on this drug and that other drugs were simply not working for him.

Recently released research suggests that marijuana of certain types is a highly effective medication for certain mental health situations, including anorexia, PTSD, social stress, even schizophrenia. My own psychiatrist recommended that I check out the medical marijuana scene. He said that the FDA and other agencies have made it almost impossible to obtain enough information on the subject for him to pass judgment, and that if I was interested, I should ask a naturopathic doctor who specializes in herbal alternatives to dangerous pharmaceuticals. I've also heard that medical cannabis could help my autistic son -- other moms in Seattle have already introduced this medicine to their own children. They even talk about it in support group sometimes.

So, considering that, you guys might be shocked that when the judge made his heavy-handed decision on the matter of this young man's future, and the marshalls came into the courtroom to arrest the man and drag him away to jail, it appeared that the man suffered a heart attack or similarly severe reaction. The judge ordered a recess and we were evacuated from the courtroom. While we were standing in the hallway waiting, paramedics arrived with a stretcher and went into the room. It took about 25-30 minutes for them to respond and secure the patient. While this was happening, the prosecutor and one of the public defenders who works there all the time were laughing about what happened.

Yeah, you read it right, while we all waited to see if this guy was even going to live through the hearing, the lawyers and prosecutors and other related personnel of the court were gossiping and laughing about someone on the verge of death, while the rest of the courtroom visitors watched in horror. It was one of the most traumatic and horrifying things I've ever seen in person, relative to how our country serves "justice" relative to the mentally ill and so-called "unfit" elements of society.

The strange thing was, probation made a public statement on the court microphone saying that they wanted to work with this young man, he was largely compliant, i.e. gentle and cooperative from what I gathered, and yet the judge passed such a harsh sentence on him that paramedics had to carry him out of the room and down the hall. I was 2 feet from the stretcher and when it went past, the man's eyes were rolled up in his head and they had his wrists strapped to the sides of the gurney like you see in the movies.

I've never seen a more pathetic thing happen to a person my age than what happened to Joshua Hunt in room 1103.

I've never encountered a more two-faced and disrespectful group of people than the Seattle public defenders, either. The time they should be spending preparing for court, they are literally spending mocking and making fun of their own clients. Only the prosecutors are willing to do any real work in many cases. Mental health patients who need the best representation in court, and are prone to self-admitting guilt whereas real criminals know how to lie to the judge, are falling through the cracks and being thrown in prison over things that are legal.

_________________________________________________________

Don't trust anyone you haven't hired yourself, and don't even trust them.
End of story -- if you want rights you need to know them yourself, because not even the public defender gives a **** about them, and might not even represent your interests at all. Public defenders, at least in this case, satisfy the public perception of the lawyer as a snakelike, spineless, yellow, gutless windbag.

I didn't used to want to believe things like that about people. But it's true. They are the scum of the earth and they will laugh as you are dragged away to jail over something that is legal. They just don't care at all.

And the ones who pretend to care are often so ignorant of anything outside their literal scope of experience that you are better off self-representing, as a judge tends to respect intelligence when it appears, which is rare in the courtroom.

P.S. this guy who they threw in jail has a small child who won't be seeing his daddy anymore, since Seattle is depriving daddy of his legal right to use marijuana and throwing him in jail.

P.P.S. just like the justice system, people who have a lot of money get away with everything marijuana-related. They get approved easier and have the money to pay off doctors and lawyers, whereas people who cannot afford the authorization and co-op membership are left out of the "safety loop".

Something needs to be done about this.

[GCS1103]

I appreciate how you feel and agree that our justice system is completely corrupted. Municipal Court is at the lowest rung of the criminal justice system, so imagine what can happen to people who are brought in front of a State Superior Judge or Federal Judge. In order to escape being the "poster boy" of a particular crime, you must have money, or more importantly, political connections. I have personally witnessed the complete cover-up of Jon Corzine's (former N.J. Governor and Obama pal) billion dollar theft of his client's money. The Dept. of Justice participated in this cover-up and he will never be brought to justice in a criminal case. He is no better than Bernie Madoff who stole billions from his clients; he was just better connected.

When you describe the prosecutors laughing about this poor guy whose life has been destroyed, I'm not surprised. You have to understand that it takes a certain mentality to want to be a prosecutor. For the most part, they are holier-than-thou people who see themselves as white knights of justice or they are in the prosecutor's office because it's a very good starting place for someone with political ambitions. It's a rarity to find a prosecutor who has either compassion or objectivity. Public defenders are nothing more than State employees with a guaranteed paycheck and pension. Your case is just another file to them. Many of them do this work because they couldn't get a good paying job when they got out of law school or they want the trial experience so that they can get a good paying job in the future. No one stays a "career" public defender by choice.

I hope your case went well for you. As the saying goes....."this too shall pass"....applies to the bump in the road of your journey.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Thank you for the kind words and also for the honest words, GCS1103.

In regards to the outcome of my case, well, the ineptitude and corruption of my latest two public defenders resulted in a very "weird" situation,
where I signed an agreement allowing the local judge to defer punishment WITHOUT admitting guilt or innocence.
It's called an SoC, a stipulated order of continuance.
Unfortunately there is a clause included in this agreement that I did not realize provided the prosecutors from another district to try me an additional time for the same charge.
People who accept an SoC rather than going to trial are told that it's the safe option, when in fact it leaves the client open to being tried in the future without the benefit of a jury, witnesses, or statements one's own behalf.

In effect my local attorney bamboozled me during a period of extreme stress (this was after my husband took our car and left me stranded for a week) and delivered me straight into the hands of Seattle prosecutors -- by asking me to sign an agreement allowing an external district to review the decision of the local judge.

What this means is that although I was almost off probation in the other district, the judge presiding over that district/municipality may have the ability to overturn the better judgment of the local officials relevant to the recent charges -- like, the town I live in, might have been willing to give me a chance, except it turns out that the agreement supposedly providing that chance has enabled prosecutors affiliated with an old case in another town to throw me in jail, when I was otherwise compliant with the court.

The charge in question, maybe I shouldn't say a whole lot, but it boils down to this:


[Someone] got locked out while mentally compromised and called 911.
911 operator was rude and unhelpful, offered no services including women's shelter or locksmith phone number.
911 operator failed to recognize the need for psychiatric evaluation of the caller.
Caller had no access to medications, bed, email, apartment; was suffering panic attack while under the influence.
911 and police drummed up a bogus phone harassment charge, lowered to public nuisance charge later.
SoC was presented by defense attorney and encouraged as the "best of all possible solutions".
Attorney attempted to discuss private details of case in front of full court room, client asked for privacy.
Attorney did not provide addendum to SoC copy for client, which would have been a police report.
Client would not have signed agreement if police report was present and sufficiently negative.
Agreement relieves local court of most responsibility and allows separate court to prosecute a resolved case.


It's a really crappy loophole and they are full of ****.

http://blandyland.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/there-is-no-flag-large-enough-to-cover-the-shame-of-killing-innocent-people.jpg

[Kindling]

Wow Tesla, thanks so much for the update. I've been thinking about you and wondering how you were doing :(. So trapped in the ****ing system, huh?! You seem to be doing all that you can at this point to get through this as best you can. Sad but you have been forced to learn the ropes. What a tragedy for the young man in court!! It's wonderful that you shined a light on his story by sharing it here. :hug: Brenda

[ghostrider]

Tesla the only way to change it , is fire ALL our politicians and replace them with common sense WE the people types ... Judges should only serve one year then get a review on their performance and how they stick to the law being equally applied to ALL no exceptions ... ALL politicians should be imposed with term limits , four years and they are OUT ... no more retirement and pensions ... serve your country then go be a citizen again ... rotating the leadership with new ideas and giving everyone a voice , not just lawyers , doctors , and trust fund babies ... maybe it would stop some of the corruption , as no one can be bought , and get corporations completely out of the picture and keep government OUT of business , lets examine the current laws and keep what works and remove what doesn't , if it limits the public freedoms , it's out ...There is so much we need to fix , getting EVERYONE to agree on two terms for ALL politicians is a good building block ... 30 yrs in government is not what the founding fathers had in mind , hence the articles of the constitution , free speech, the right to keep and bare arms, freedom of assembly , notice they said you can talk , defend yourself and gather and talk with like minds ... We should be spending our time and energy getting the budget in order , not chasing and punishing people who dig up plants and smoke them ...they don't make noise about tobbaco , it is a drug , it is addictive , it has harmful chemicals , says so right on the label , yet it is legal and there is no license required , and you can buy as many as you want , it is still a plant , dug up and rolled and smoked ...

[Ernie Nemeth]

Tesla, I feel for you. I have also watched the goings-on in our courtrooms and found it rather shameful. The judges and prosecutors are good buddies, the public defenders are derided and barely given their due respect. This immediately places anyone with no means at a severe disadvantage. Having to rely on public defenders is suicide.

I am also waiting my day in court. I might easily be off to jail. It scares me, gives me butterflies and muddles my thinking - every day since this began back in April, when I voluntarily gave myself up. I once before had an occasion to voluntarily give myself up and it was mentioned in court, and was a plus on my side. This time they claim they, by some sort of amazing police work, found me and arrested me. No mention is made of my giving myself up. The charge is now TWO YEARS OLD, and still they won't let go. Like a rabid starving mangy dog with a bone, they just will not let go. It's a ridiculous charge, no evidence but hearsay and two years later I am still living with the posiible future ramifications it will have on my life. Absolutely crazy system, and nothing at all to do with justice. It is a racket.

Just go to court and see it for yourself. See how many lives are ruined by these heartless bastards on a daily basis. And the lives of their family and friends. At best it a system of revenge, at worst a purposeful means of intimidation and torture. Archaic and debased.

Good luck with the rest of your proceedings, Tesla.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Ernie, I am terribly sorry that they treat you that way. It sounds like you deserved that even less than me!!!
I am glad you mentioned it, though.

I wish that judge had read: http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/08/health/gupta-changed-mind-marijuana/

Why I changed my mind on weed
By Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN Chief Medical Correspondent
updated 8:44 PM EDT, Thu August 8, 2013

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130808181437-marijuana-weed-plant-story-top.jpg


(CNN) -- Over the last year, I have been working on a new documentary called "Weed." The title "Weed" may sound cavalier, but the content is not.

I traveled around the world to interview medical leaders, experts, growers and patients. I spoke candidly to them, asking tough questions. What I found was stunning.

Long before I began this project, I had steadily reviewed the scientific literature on medical marijuana from the United States and thought it was fairly unimpressive. Reading these papers five years ago, it was hard to make a case for medicinal marijuana. I even wrote about this in a TIME magazine article, back in 2009, titled "Why I would Vote No on Pot."

Well, I am here to apologize.

I apologize because I didn't look hard enough, until now. I didn't look far enough. I didn't review papers from smaller labs in other countries doing some remarkable research, and I was too dismissive of the loud chorus of legitimate patients whose symptoms improved on cannabis.

Instead, I lumped them with the high-visibility malingerers, just looking to get high. I mistakenly believed the Drug Enforcement Agency listed marijuana as a schedule 1 substance because of sound scientific proof. Surely, they must have quality reasoning as to why marijuana is in the category of the most dangerous drugs that have "no accepted medicinal use and a high potential for abuse."

They didn't have the science to support that claim, and I now know that when it comes to marijuana neither of those things are true. It doesn't have a high potential for abuse, and there are very legitimate medical applications. In fact, sometimes marijuana is the only thing that works. Take the case of Charlotte Figi, who I met in Colorado. She started having seizures soon after birth. By age 3, she was having 300 a week, despite being on seven different medications. Medical marijuana has calmed her brain, limiting her seizures to 2 or 3 per month.

I have seen more patients like Charlotte first hand, spent time with them and come to the realization that it is irresponsible not to provide the best care we can as a medical community, care that could involve marijuana.

We have been terribly and systematically misled for nearly 70 years in the United States, and I apologize for my own role in that.

read the rest at CNN.com


Medical benefit
While investigating, I realized something else quite important. Medical marijuana is not new, and the medical community has been writing about it for a long time. There were in fact hundreds of journal articles, mostly documenting the benefits. Most of those papers, however, were written between the years 1840 and 1930. The papers described the use of medical marijuana to treat "neuralgia, convulsive disorders, emaciation," among other things.

A search through the U.S. National Library of Medicine this past year pulled up nearly 20,000 more recent papers. But the majority were research into the harm of marijuana, such as "Bad trip due to anticholinergic effect of cannabis," or "Cannabis induced pancreatitits" and "Marijuana use and risk of lung cancer."

In my quick running of the numbers, I calculated about 6% of the current U.S. marijuana studies investigate the benefits of medical marijuana. The rest are designed to investigate harm. That imbalance paints a highly distorted picture.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

http://seattletimes.com/html/opinion/2022077981_jonathanmartinprisonmentalhealthcolumn20xml.html


Originally published October 19, 2013 at 4:04 PM | Page modified October 19, 2013 at 6:18 PM

Mental health in prisons: It’s a crime


With nowhere else to turn, prisons are stepping up to the challenge of treating mentally ill offenders, writes columnist Jonathan Martin.

By Jonathan Martin
Times editorial columnist


No humane person thinks prisons are the right place to treat the mentally ill, including the folks who run Washington’s prisons.

But left to pick up the pieces of the state’s fractured mental-health system, they are leaning into the job. Quietly, the state Department of Corrections has carved out treatment programs at all custody levels, from maximum custody to work release, and has encouraged among corrections staff a sea change in thinking about the mentally ill.

“When systems can’t say no, they’re much more interested in solving the problem,” said Bruce Gage, the DOC’s head psychiatrist. “Here at the Department of Corrections, we don’t have anyone else to turn to, so we can’t say no.”

Monroe, the nearest prison to Seattle, is the locus of this experiment, with nearly 500 beds focused on mentally ill offenders.

The most recent investment in mental health care came in August, when the DOC bought and bolted to the floor oversized school desks in a classroom within the prison’s solitary confinement units, known in prison lingo as Intensive Management Units.

Twice a week since August, offenders are let out of solitary for hours of cognitive behavior therapy classes. I watched one class recently as four offenders, in orange jumpsuits shackled to the desks, went through something like a group therapy lesson.

Not surprisingly, Intensive Management Units are a magnet for the mentally ill, because of their own erratic behavior or as protection from other offenders. One study of the state’s Intensive Management Units estimated 45 percent of isolated offenders had mental illness or traumatic brain injuries. They tend to stay for years, and often return right back to solitary once they’re released to the general population, their illness worsening.

...

In 1955, before deinstitutionalization, there was one psychiatric bed for every 300 U.S. residents. A half-century later, that ratio is now 1 in 3,000.

That has led to another telling ratio: For every one person in a public or private psychiatric bed in Washington, there are 3.1 people with serious mental illness in the state’s jails and prisons, according to the Treatment Advocacy Center. Nationally, the ratio is 3.2 to 1.

And that is a crime.


http://blogs.seattletimes.com/northwestvoices/2013/10/19/mental-illness-more-accurate-patient-protrayal-needed/

October 19, 2013 at 7:03 AM

Mental illness: More accurate patient protrayal needed
Posted by Letters Coordinator

Psychiatric hospitals need resources to keep staff and patients safe

Thank you for your recent article “Report: Violence on the rise again at Western State after decline,” (NWThursday, Oct. 10).

I was concerned with the tone the article took on violent behavior among patients receiving inpatient psychiatric treatment. Describing “patient-on-staff” assaults without providing context contributes to the false stereotype that acute mental illness is strongly correlated with violent behavior, when in fact it is not.

I acknowledge that people experiencing mental illness do sometimes act out violently, and mental-health workers should not experience violence as part of their job. However, the portrayal of the patient as perpetrator and hospital staff as victims is damaging and whitewashes other important issues, including circumstances that might compel patients to act out violently — as well as how lack of staffing and resources affect patient care.

Again, I thank you for your article, and I wholeheartedly agree that our psychiatric hospitals should be allocated the resources necessary to keep both staff and patients safe. I hope that in the future you will also consider the story from the patient’s point of view and actively speak out against the false narrative that mental illness is a predictor of violent behavior.

Sara M. Gall, Seattle


Exodus 9:1

Then the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh, and tell him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_2

Nebuchadnezzar's dream

The description of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream includes a "great image, whose brightness [was] excellent... and the form thereof [was] terrible."[v.31] A general description of the personified image is given from head to toe: whose head was made of fine gold, a chest and arms of silver, a belly of brass,[v.32] legs of iron, and feet made partly of iron and partly of clay.[v.33] The vision is then continued by relating the Vision of stone, its characterization: "not cut by hands", and its action that causes a dispersion of the statue’s metals,[v.34] smashing them into stubble. The stone grows to fill the whole Earth.[v.35] Thus concludes the presentation of the dream followed by its interpretation, by the formula: “this is the dream”.[v.36][3]

Daniel's interpretation

The king, Nebuchadnezzar, is the head of gold.[v.37-38] There will be another kingdom who will rise, succeeding Nebuchadnezzar, but inferior.[v.39] Followed by a Third kingdom who will rule over the whole earth.[v.39] Then, a Fourth kingdom will be as strong as iron and will crush all others.[v.40] The kingdom of iron becomes divided,[v.41] being partly strong like iron, and partly weak like clay.[v.42] The intermarriage between the two parts will fail.[v.43][3] "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever." [v.44].

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Songe_Nabuchodonosor_statue.jpg

The Tree of Life

http://jeanraffa.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/draft_lens2285314module12559131photo_1226475172gds_tree_of_life1.jpg?w=340&h=440

http://d202m5krfqbpi5.cloudfront.net/books/1309579095l/160486.jpg

[Snowflower]

I cannot begin to convey my deep welling of pain for the suffering you have endured from the "just us" system. No matter how much people believe our stories (and yes, I also have a story of being a victim of the psychopaths running the system), they cannot really grasp the reality of degradation until they become a victim themselves. My nightmare was supposed to be over more than a year ago and the end of probation, after my "public defender" lied to me and convinced me I could not risk a trial with their threatened 3 years in jail for a patently absurd charge. But yesterday I received a letter telling me I owe another $174 in extortion money, for what I know not, since it was supposed to all be over.

Once the bastards get their mitts into you, they never, never, never let go.

The only solution is total collapse of the system and I pray daily for the end of "civilization."

[Snowflower]

Anyone who has endured it themselves will see my words, "patently absurd charge" and know how likely it is that I am telling the truth. Anyone who has not been personally through the system of psychopaths will have a piece of their minds that goes like this, "well, yeah, she could be telling the truth, but - they must have arrested her for SOME reason, I wonder what she really did."

When I was younger and naive, I saw people in courthouses waiting to go into courtrooms and I wondered what they had done wrong to be on trial. Now, when I walk past them in the courthouse, I wonder how badly they have been victimized by the system and the psychopaths who run it. And by the way - I know exactly what a psychopath is, and do not use the word lightly. I mean it when I call them psychopathic.

[Vitalux]

Thank you so much Tesla_WTC_Solution for this wonderful post.
It can be clearly seen that you put a great deal of time and energy into helping us to understand a situation which you witnessed.


I can only offer this.....

The justice system, even though it has it's flaws, is still a good system.
There are many people, who have no remorse about harming others, and it is part of that justice system that ensures both those that harm society are removed from society as well as demonstrating to law breakers deterrents to help them become more socially responsible.

One thing to consider, that in most jobs, one really has to become cold at times towards situations, otherwise they would lose their objectivity of being able to do that job.

That is why often, police get hardened, nurses get hardened, and also those that world for the justice system get hardened.

You only had to sit there for perhaps one day and deal with all that misery, those people, live it every day.

If you consider it from an objective side, all those people in office deal with probably a great deal misery that you and I can appreciate.

They have the same problems we do, divorce, abandonment, sickness, and fear from a multitude of things.

Most, if not all criminal court judges have no power to change laws, they simply are very much like the guy who makes and hands you a BIG MAC.
They know it is not good for you, but they are paid to serve it to you anyways.

I just have compassion for all. Like it was written, someone said to their GOD, "Forgive them father, for they do not know what they do".:o


(((hugs)))


Much love

[Snowflower]

Vitalux, you have not yet been victimized by the just us system. If you had been, you could not have written what you have. No, it is not still a good system. It is filthy. Filthy, corrupt, disgusting, and deadly.

There are some in jail who belong there - about 25% or less than the total imprisoned. 60-70% are there as drug users, and the majority of those used marijuana. (note I said user, not dealer.) Between 5-10% were innocent of the charges. drug users do not belong in jails. They belong in medical care.

I don't know the statistics of those on probation rather than serving time, but I know from the experience of sitting in the courtroom during my own nightmare, that well more than 50% did not deserve what was happening to them in the courtroom. I do not call it a justice system. It is a SaMAP system: slave and money acquisition program. The purpose of cops is to supply the state with money from victims and slaves for the corporations that own the prisons and commercial contracts for nearly free inmate labor.

No, you have not been a victim because you still have the view that the system works for most. No, it doesn't. It is broken and needs to be thrown away.

[Vitalux]

No, you have not been a victim because you still have the view that the system works for most. No, it doesn't. It is broken and needs to be thrown away.


Perhaps you are 100% correct.
For in my mind, no matter whatever human-life bestows me, I just will not see myself as a victim, just an observer having an experience. :hug:

hate and misery are a heavy burden to carry :yo:

[Snowflower]

This is true. But, I have never been able to subscribe to the theory that all I have to do is ignore the rotten, focus on the good, and somehow, the rotten will cease to exist. It doesn't work that way. Never has, never will. When my daughter was four years old, my car was hit by a drunk driver. My car blew up. I got all of my children out alive. My daughter suffered 3rd degree burns on 40% of her body. She was FOUR YEARS OLD, and an individual had the GALL to tell me she had suffered that pain for some kind of karma connected to a previous life. No God I want to ever call a loving creator would do that to a four year old child. No, I will not have a pollyanna approach to life pretending that the bastards aren't out there. Psychopathy is real. 5% of the people in this country have no conscience, no remorse, no empathy, no compassion, no connection to others. They understand empathetic people enough to manipulate us against ourselves. They know how to use morality and religion as a control mechanism, how to use guilt and shame although they feel none themselves.

The psychopaths are in charge. They control the courts. They control politics and government. They control the entire "just us" system. Do you understand what this really means? People who have no empathy, no compassion, no connection to others have complete control over the entire population, and the power to determine for each individual who becomes their victim the fate of that person - without a shred of human feeling entering the process. Only control. It is NOT a system where we can simply focus on the positive and believe that the negative will fade out as a result.

If your country is invaded by an enemy, the government taken over, people being put to death on a daily basis, people being starved through lack of food, people being forced from their homes - would you think that the solution was to focus on the positive and think good thoughts? The situation we face in this country is EVERY bit as lethal. We HAVE been invaded by an enemy. Our government has gone through a silent coup, and we are no longer a constitutional republic. It is a well disguised military police state. Make no mistake about it - the justice system is part of the coup that has been staged on this country, and is rotten clear to the core.

We cannot win through outright revolution because they have far more guns. We cannot win through protests or any of the methods we have been used to using in the past. The only way to win is to shun. Absolute, complete, shunning. Turn our backs on the system. Endure when victimized. Recover and turn our backs again. And again. Until they lose through indifference.

It's popular to say "I am not a victim, I am a survivor." Ok. I can say that. I survived. Yay. I'm a survivor. But that doesn't change the fact that the state set me up to be a victim.

[Vitalux]

Yay. I'm a survivor. But that doesn't change the fact that the state set me up to be a victim.

Snowflower, I wish you Love. :hug:

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

I just wish the justice system would provide justice instead of sick entertainment for the bottom of the professional barrel.
That's a good wish, isn't it?

[transiten]

This is a link i got the other day about a woman healing herself from Lyme with cannabis oil:

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/09/12/amazing-story-the-healing-power-of-cannabis-oil-on-lyme-disease-and-lyme-co-infections/

I'm suffering from lyme and treat myself with frequency therapy based on Royal Rife and Hulda Clarks research combined with supplements. The above picture shows how i looked 1 year ago, i'm much better now but surely would like to have access to this cannabis oil.

Found this:www.aromaazinternational.com/Cannabis-oil-340

[transiten]

Nebuchadnezzar's dream

The description of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream includes a "great image, whose brightness [was] excellent... and the form thereof [was] terrible."[v.31] A general description of the personified image is given from head to toe: whose head was made of fine gold, a chest and arms of silver, a belly of brass,[v.32] legs of iron, and feet made partly of iron and partly of clay.[v.33] The vision is then continued by relating the Vision of stone, its characterization: "not cut by hands", and its action that causes a dispersion of the statue’s metals,[v.34] smashing them into stubble. The stone grows to fill the whole Earth.[v.35] Thus concludes the presentation of the dream followed by its interpretation, by the formula: “this is the dream”.[v.36][3]

Daniel's interpretation

The king, Nebuchadnezzar, is the head of gold.[v.37-38] There will be another kingdom who will rise, succeeding Nebuchadnezzar, but inferior.[v.39] Followed by a Third kingdom who will rule over the whole earth.[v.39] Then, a Fourth kingdom will be as strong as iron and will crush all others.[v.40] The kingdom of iron becomes divided,[v.41] being partly strong like iron, and partly weak like clay.[v.42] The intermarriage between the two parts will fail.[v.43][3] "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever." [v.44].

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Songe_Nabuchodonosor_statue.jpg

Tesla!

Just 30 minutes ago i read about this dream in David Wilcocks book "The Synchronicity Key" where he says Daniel's interpretation shows an intimate knowledge of history moving in repeating cycles. We are now living in the Iron Age which will be crushed and we will eventually enter into the Golden Age.

What made you put this picture in connection with your post?

[grannyfranny100]

Seems that people caught up in the legal and welfare system are generally unwilling to give up the freebies the system gives them. They sure seem to be able to figure out how to work the Federal and local systems to get as many freebees as possible such as cheap rent, food stamps, benefits for their kids, free legal help, a vehicle, computer, educational assistance, psychological help, medical care, whatever. But they don't seem to understand that in return, they need to give the system the docile behavior the system expects and demands whether it is right or wrong.

Once you are out of the system, not dependent on it and are legitimately self supporting and tax paying, then is the time to fight its injustices, not while you are in it and dependent on it. It seems the focus can not be on working the system but staying focused on what you have to do to get out of the system. I am sure there are many extenuating reasons in many cases but that does not matter. The point isn't to fight for your perceived rights while in the system. Get out of the system by cooperating with it. Fight it later when you are free of its constraints.

Look at Gandhi and Mandala. When they were imprisoned, they accepted it and played by the system's rules. They stayed true to their beliefs in their hearts and expressed those once they were out of the system. If you want to champaign the underdogs, that is a fine ambition but you have to get out of their unkind care and rules first.

[Sidney]

This is a link i got the other day about a woman healing herself from Lyme with cannabis oil:

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/09/12/amazing-story-the-healing-power-of-cannabis-oil-on-lyme-disease-and-lyme-co-infections/

I'm suffering from lyme and treat myself with frequency therapy based on Royal Rife and Hulda Clarks research combined with supplements. The above picture shows how i looked 1 year ago, i'm much better now but surely would like to have access to this cannabis oil.

Found this:www.aromaazinternational.com/Cannabis-oil-340


Hi Transiten, Wow congratulations on your miraculous lyme recovery!!!!! That is huge. I would like to ask what your herx experience (if any) from the canabis oil, and what dosage you used. I have been desperate to find something to help with my lyme symptoms which number in the twenties. : ( Fatigue and nerve pain and sleep disorders and endocrine disruptions being the top 4. Also do you know anything about the company offering this mail order cannabis oil?

[Snowflower]

Is this kind of thing common in Avalon? Such a complete derailing of a thread?

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Seems that people caught up in the legal and welfare system are generally unwilling to give up the freebies the system gives them. They sure seem to be able to figure out how to work the Federal and local systems to get as many freebees as possible such as cheap rent, food stamps, benefits for their kids, free legal help, a vehicle, computer, educational assistance, psychological help, medical care, whatever. But they don't seem to understand that in return, they need to give the system the docile behavior the system expects and demands whether it is right or wrong.

Once you are out of the system, not dependent on it and are legitimately self supporting and tax paying, then is the time to fight its injustices, not while you are in it and dependent on it. It seems the focus can not be on working the system but staying focused on what you have to do to get out of the system. I am sure there are many extenuating reasons in many cases but that does not matter. The point isn't to fight for your perceived rights while in the system. Get out of the system by cooperating with it. Fight it later when you are free of its constraints.

Look at Gandhi and Mandala. When they were imprisoned, they accepted it and played by the system's rules. They stayed true to their beliefs in their hearts and expressed those once they were out of the system. If you want to champaign the underdogs, that is a fine ambition but you have to get out of their unkind care and rules first.

I won't rise to the bait this time and call you names, but... please don't use Gandhi to back up your trolling. It's not appropriate and you don't understand him.

Let me set something straight. There is nothing wrong with the mentally ill or military veterans taking welfare, nor the elderly nor those with children who are young. Refugees from horrific situations in foreign countries and those lacking the education to compete are welcome to it, too.

"Arbeit macht frei" is a Nazi attitude -- it's not even a Pharaonic one. In case no one knows what that means, it says "Work makes freedom". Sure, just ask the Jews in concentration camp if their work paid off. I'm sure they were dedicated and worked hard before they were thrown into the ovens. Anyone who isn't on the "inside" may as well be doing the same.

Most famous artists, writers, and musicians are recognized posthumously. That means their work didn't pay off while they were alive. Society and the system really isn't a factor in such individuals' success unless it's being criticized in their work. And few governments provide compensation for helpful criticisms. It wouldn't matter if you wrote half the books of the Bible.

Also, did you know that silent compliance is active assent? It amounts to the same thing. Personally, I don't support our "Brave New World" or your "Equilibrium" B.S. My ancestors were great warriors, and I will not be shamed into the defeat you call peace.

I am not sure whether we are even talking about the same thing. You seem to be saying that, for example, should a woman on welfare be unable to report domestic violence? Should she not be entitled to a proper defense in court?

If the economy crashed tomorrow, and there was nothing on the shelves and no wires on the phone poles, you "hard-working institutionalized system-supporting" people would die first. Everything that supports your way of life dangles by a literal thread. When FEMA does finally find an excuse to take over, if that happens someday, remember what I said about those who support the system. You are embracing your own extinction.

Life is lived by the individual, not the group. And if survival is such a grave competition, as you portray it, how can you go on supporting capitalism knowing that for every one on top of the pyramid, there are a million suffering on the bottom? "One Tyranny Supported by Many Backs" is what our dollar might as well say, and that's what I am hearing from you.

I will NOT support or work for a system that sends people like that Josh Hunt to jail over a puff of smoke. My job, as someone with knowledge of said system, is to expose it. I won't swallow your puff of smoke either, even with my arsehole. Because you are trying to blow smoke up my ass.

People have real problems, sometimes. And some of them progress beyond simple petty neurosis, such as drives a forum troll, into a full-blown incident. Does that mean people can't change, or that they are not sorry, or don't regret making a mistake? No... but it's okay to decide not to shoulder the entire crap sandwich yourself, if you didn't make it by yourself.

I am really not so sure how every thread about social injustice on here, on Avalon, gets infiltrated by faux-piety and a lack of respect for life in general. System insiders are the real whistleblowers most of the time, and they have to choose to break away from the system in order to observe it clearly and report the wrongdoing they have witnessed.

Speaking of witnesses, do you think GrannyFranny, that people in the witness protection program don't deserve some welfare? How about telling us how you are connected with the system and tell us some more about yourself?

You don't even have your picture or name on your avatar -- LOFL.
Are you my probation officer, or what? A prosecutor? Come out of the white tower for a moment and walk through the latrine with me, and let's talk about this.

I agree with Snowflower -- this thread is taking on dirt. I now officially believe that America is in decline.

_______________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________
...................Distance from troll......................................
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The King's Dream

A gentleman on page one asked me about the dream of Nebuchadnezzar, i.e. why I posted it, and that he had recently seen a reference to it.

I included that image and description in this thread in order to demonstrate the false pride of the king and judge, who preside over our broken system. Because nothing lasts forever, not even the best-built walls or the tallest skyscraper in Seattle. It will be gone someday, like a cold November rain. And for some proud men (and women), judgment may come sooner than expected. We need only the Department of Justice to come back to Seattle and check out this week's Times articles about how nearly 4x as many psychiatric patients are rotting in jail chains as are receiving services in hospitals and suitable environments.

I suspect there will be a fairly large turnover of staff within the local legal system as a result of the embarrassment generated by abusing the mentally ill in Washington. I think the Feds should check it out, actually. They checked it out when the police were beating Mexicans, shooting Indians, and murdering schizophrenics.

The silence of the victims is the evidence of tyranny in America.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

This is true. But, I have never been able to subscribe to the theory that all I have to do is ignore the rotten, focus on the good, and somehow, the rotten will cease to exist. It doesn't work that way. Never has, never will. When my daughter was four years old, my car was hit by a drunk driver. My car blew up. I got all of my children out alive. My daughter suffered 3rd degree burns on 40% of her body. She was FOUR YEARS OLD, and an individual had the GALL to tell me she had suffered that pain for some kind of karma connected to a previous life. No God I want to ever call a loving creator would do that to a four year old child. No, I will not have a pollyanna approach to life pretending that the bastards aren't out there. Psychopathy is real. 5% of the people in this country have no conscience, no remorse, no empathy, no compassion, no connection to others. They understand empathetic people enough to manipulate us against ourselves. They know how to use morality and religion as a control mechanism, how to use guilt and shame although they feel none themselves.

The psychopaths are in charge. They control the courts. They control politics and government. They control the entire "just us" system. Do you understand what this really means? People who have no empathy, no compassion, no connection to others have complete control over the entire population, and the power to determine for each individual who becomes their victim the fate of that person - without a shred of human feeling entering the process. Only control. It is NOT a system where we can simply focus on the positive and believe that the negative will fade out as a result.

If your country is invaded by an enemy, the government taken over, people being put to death on a daily basis, people being starved through lack of food, people being forced from their homes - would you think that the solution was to focus on the positive and think good thoughts? The situation we face in this country is EVERY bit as lethal. We HAVE been invaded by an enemy. Our government has gone through a silent coup, and we are no longer a constitutional republic. It is a well disguised military police state. Make no mistake about it - the justice system is part of the coup that has been staged on this country, and is rotten clear to the core.

We cannot win through outright revolution because they have far more guns. We cannot win through protests or any of the methods we have been used to using in the past. The only way to win is to shun. Absolute, complete, shunning. Turn our backs on the system. Endure when victimized. Recover and turn our backs again. And again. Until they lose through indifference.

It's popular to say "I am not a victim, I am a survivor." Ok. I can say that. I survived. Yay. I'm a survivor. But that doesn't change the fact that the state set me up to be a victim.

One of the best written, most sensible things I've heard in a while, actually.
Would put Thomas Paine to shame, in fact.

There is more common sense in the above post by Snowflower than in many books I've read.

[transiten]

This is a link i got the other day about a woman healing herself from Lyme with cannabis oil:

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/09/12/amazing-story-the-healing-power-of-cannabis-oil-on-lyme-disease-and-lyme-co-infections/

I'm suffering from lyme and treat myself with frequency therapy based on Royal Rife and Hulda Clarks research combined with supplements. The above picture shows how i looked 1 year ago, i'm much better now but surely would like to have access to this cannabis oil.

Found this:www.aromaazinternational.com/Cannabis-oil-340


Hi Transiten, Wow congratulations on your miraculous lyme recovery!!!!! That is huge. I would like to ask what your herx experience (if any) from the canabis oil, and what dosage you used. I have been desperate to find something to help with my lyme symptoms which number in the twenties. : ( Fatigue and nerve pain and sleep disorders and endocrine disruptions being the top 4. Also do you know anything about the company offering this mail order cannabis oil?

Sidney i think you misunderstood my post. I have not yet tested cannabis oil and i'm not the woman in the article and i'm not fully recovered yet. I googled for cannabis oil and found the link. Maybe we could talk in another thread i think there's a Lyme thread somewhere.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

You guys are fine unless you are bashing people!
I don't mind what is said in here at all, if people want to talk, it's fine.

Just please stop bashing the underprivileged.
Jesus himself said the poor would always be among us,
and it's our job to help them.

End of the greatest story ever told, lol

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Please listen to this old song and understand why it matters to the USA:

4zLfCnGVeL4


Lyrics: Hello darkness, my old friend
I've come to talk with you again
Because a vision softly creeping
Left its seeds while I was sleeping
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains
Within the sound of silence

In restless dreams I walked alone
Narrow streets of cobblestone
'Neath the halo of a street lamp
I turned my collar to the cold and damp
When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
That split the night
And touched the sound of silence

And in the naked light I saw
Ten thousand people maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never shared
No one dared
Disturb the sound of silence

"Fools," said I, "you do not know
Silence like a cancer grows
Hear my words that I might teach you
Take my arms that I might reach you"
But my words like silent raindrops fell
And echoed in the wells of silence

And the people bowed and prayed
To the neon god they made
And the sign flashed out its warning
In the words that it was forming
And the sign said "The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls
And tenement halls
And whispered in the sound of silence"

http://wheatonblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/shadrach-meshach-abednego-stand.jpg?w=252&h=300


Daniel 3
New International Version (NIV)
The Image of Gold and the Blazing Furnace

3 King Nebuchadnezzar made an image of gold, sixty cubits high and six cubits wide,[a] and set it up on the plain of Dura in the province of Babylon. 2 He then summoned the satraps, prefects, governors, advisers, treasurers, judges, magistrates and all the other provincial officials to come to the dedication of the image he had set up. 3 So the satraps, prefects, governors, advisers, treasurers, judges, magistrates and all the other provincial officials assembled for the dedication of the image that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up, and they stood before it.

4 Then the herald loudly proclaimed, “Nations and peoples of every language, this is what you are commanded to do: 5 As soon as you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music, you must fall down and worship the image of gold that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up. 6 Whoever does not fall down and worship will immediately be thrown into a blazing furnace.”


16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us[c] from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.”

http://www.todayifoundout.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/US-Great-Seal-Back-340x340.png


Daniel 2:43,44

And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

[Snowflower]

Tesla, I have just spent the past hour doing something I haven't done for a very long time. I clicked on that old Simon and Garfunkel song, and just sat back to listen. My husband was reading in the room, and he put his book down, and we just both sat and remembered being young and listening to Simon and Garfunkel and loving them. So, then I had to click on another one of theirs. And Bob asked me to please click on "old friends," and then, I saw what seemed like might be a funny video over on the side, and clicked on it, and then I clicked on a whole bunch of audition songs - you know, the kind where this awesomely awesome voice comes out of someone that is fat like me, or weird like the kid over there, or just kind of chunky not one of the beautiful people trotted out on the screens for all of us to envy - you know? And it just felt so GOOD to watch people who are just folks, people who are just human, people, not caricatures of people - singing, being awesome, and loving it. Thank you for an hour of beauty. I needed it.

[Dorjezigzag]

Once you are out of the system, not dependent on it and are legitimately self supporting and tax paying, then is the time to fight its injustices, not while you are in it and dependent on it.

In case you have n't noticed the 'System' is on the most part run by corporate psychopaths, being a slave to them is just lining there pockets. Once you work for them you are compromised. Obviously we all need to do what we do to survive and feed our kids, but lets try and see through the wood to the trees

We are not supported by artificial constructs of money and associated hierarchies, we are supported by Gaia, she is the only one we are dependent on and materially she is the system, despite what some psychopaths may think, she is in control.

[gripreaper]

A "negotiable instrument" is created when the "charge" is placed against you in any court. This bond is funded through your signature, and deposited on account at the court as an actual draft, which is cash. It comes from your birth certificate bond, which was given to the state when you were born, and it carries a monetary value to it.

So, in the eyes of the court, you are "chattel" for the state, wards of the state, and your purpose is to provide revenue for them and to fill their pockets. Court is NEVER about justice. The Constitution and the Laws are not allowed in the courtroom, for courtrooms are only administrative, and the judge is just an administrative agent for the state. YOU are state property. BOTH attorneys (and the judge) are registered with the BAR association, which is affiliated and chartered through the Vatican and the City of London.

Once the charges are pending and the bond is created and deposited, if by some off chance you were to "win" your case, the court would have to refund the bond, which they are not willing to do. The prosecutor becomes liable for the amount of the bond. This is why over 92% of all cases represented by lawyers go against the defendant, and why close to 86% of all "pro-se" cases also fail. Some are having success in getting their cases thrown out on technical grounds due to procedural errors, not on the actual merits of the case. That is where the small percentage of wins come from.

Once you submit to being "re-presented" you waive all your rights and your words are mute in the courtroom, even though the judge urges you to speak, he hears not a single word you say. Your voice is like farts and air conditioner noise, and nothing more.

Even if you are really good, know all the rules of civil procedure, know all of the USC, CFR, UCC codes, your local rules, statutes, regulations and procedures, have studied all the relevant Supreme Court cases to support your claim, all of your district appellate cases, all your local state cases, and you know who you are and how not to get dragged into their jurisdiction, you STILL are not seen as a living being but as the corporate bond.

Just stay out of the courtroom if at all possible. If you must go into court, then you need to stand outside their jurisdiction, invoke the administrative duty of the judge, appoint him as trustee for the bankruptcy he is administering, and compel him to discharge the obligation against your birth certificate, by claiming your beneficiary status, while denying any contractual obligation to the New Deal contract.

Not easy to do. You might get violently dragged out of the courtroom, handcuffed and held in contempt, subjected to a psychological evaluation, drugged, prodded and poked till they are sure you are rendered back to slave status. They do not want anyone to know their true status or to wake up and bring the truth into the courtroom.

[Snowflower]

Ah. I finally found my forum of real people.

[sigma6]

this is news? LOL... let's stop black market government run crime syndicates by bringing what is for all practical intents and purposes an inelastic demand product from the "black market" into the public market... bloody genius!

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Here is a link regarding how police in Dallas responded recently when a mentally ill man's mother called them for help:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/dallas-police-probe-shooting-mentally-ill-man-20610622


The video tells a different story. Although the police report says Bennett "lunged" at the officers with a knife, in the video he stands up from the chair but then doesn't appear to move at all until the gun is fired and he crumples to the ground.

The surveillance video doesn't include audio, and Spencer wrote in his report that Bennett yelled at them, "You all are gonna need more officers than this!" But it doesn't show that the incident "escalated, which led an officer to fire his weapon upon the individual," as police spokesman Warren Mitchell said in a statement a few hours after the shooting.

Police Chief David Brown said in a statement Thursday night that Spencer has been placed on indefinite administrative leave pending a "thorough criminal investigation."

Jackson said she and her son had been arguing about whether he could take an ink drawing of a rose he had done for his late grandmother, she said. The drawing is framed on the wall of her home.

The argument soon escalated to the point where Jackson felt she needed police assistance.

"I'm devastated that I felt the need to call 911," Jackson said.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1491075.1382297664!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/dallas-police-shooting.jpg


http://landing.newsinc.com/shared/video.html?freewheel=90051&sitesection=nydailynews&VID=25270458

[jackovesk]

Will he be the world's biggest drug dealer? Uruguay president in 'groundbreaking' move to legalise marijuana trade

December 12, 2013 8:27AM

THIS country's government is about to become the world's biggest drug dealer.

Uruguay is about to launch a daring national experiment. Both houses of the Latin American nation's Congress have approved a plan to create the world's first legal market for cannabis.

http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2013/12/12/1226781/181738-b9f93c26-6252-11e3-bb71-e2c853748ae0.jpg
The nation’s dreadlocked population is very pleased the bill passed the Senate on Tuesday. Picture: EPA Source: AP

The laws go well beyond well beyond the famously liberal pot laws in the Netherlands or recent measures in the US states of Colorado and Washington.

Consumers over 18 will be able to grow their own marijuana, though no more than six plants per person. They can also get it through clubs or buy up to 40 grams per month from pharmacies. In every case, they must be registered with the government.

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2013/12/12/1226781/181767-378347be-6252-11e3-bb71-e2c853748ae0.jpg
(Psssst, that’s not how it works). Picture: EPA Source: AP

The laws were championed by President Jose Mujica, a 78-year-old former rebel fighter, and backed by New York billionaires.

Mujica argued the global drug war is a failure. He said bureaucrats could do a better job of containing addictions and beating organised crime than police, soldiers and prison guards.

http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2013/12/12/1226781/178454-a6c09dba-6253-11e3-bb71-e2c853748ae0.jpg
Mujica was a bad, bad boy in his youth. He was shot by police SIX times in his rebel heyday. Picture: AFP Source: AFP


The government's campaign received help from billionaire George Soros, who provided support for a national TV campaign and other lobbying efforts.

In September, Mujica met with Soros and billionaire David Rockefeller in New York to explain his legal-market plan.


http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/12/12/1226781/182981-ee1655f8-6251-11e3-bb71-e2c853748ae0.jpg
Soros ... Has so much money, heck, why not transform Uruguay too. Picture: EPA Source: AFP

Critics such as opposition spokesman Pedro Bordaberry said the people of Uruguay were being treated as "guinea pigs".

"I would say to Mr Soros, to Mr Rockefeller, and to the president of the republic that you don't experiment with the Uruguayans. We are not guinea pigs," Mr Bordaberry said.

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/12/12/1226781/181877-83fc1f26-6252-11e3-bb71-e2c853748ae0.jpg
Unsurprisingly, activists lit up when the bill passed. Picture: AP Source: AFP

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/business/markets/will-he-be-the-worlds-biggest-drug-dealer-uruguay-president-in-groundbreaking-move-to-legalise-marijuana-trade/story-fni0d7jf-1226781181904

PS - I'll just repeat the thread (Heading) again...


Ok Conspiracy Theorists - Try and explain (WhY) Soros, Rockefeller & Uruguay Govt. teamed up to legalise Marijuana???


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS5bHiXKUxI
The only 2 things that came to mind was...

1. Obviously they're in for a slice of the action..:yes4:

2. They are testing out the new (Business Model) in order to eventually (Legalise) their own Criminal Drug Distribution activities...:confused:

Bit stumped on this one, as to the reason Why? Soros & Rockefeller are involved...?

So, I welcome you all to wrap your mind around their (Strategy) and let us know what other explanations that may have (Validity) as to (Why?) they (Funded It)...:noidea:

One's thing I think I can say safely on behalf of all of you is...

They are up (No Good) as per usual...!!!

[Wind]

Well, for starters I think that weed should be already legal everywhere. Also I think that Mujica is right and he has kind eyes... Did you know that he is the poorest president on Earth (http://www.pachamama.org/blog/the-worlds-poorest-president-may-also-be-the-richest-meet-jose-mujica)? I actually wish to see more leaders like him... People who actually walk the walk insteading of talking the talk.

hteGnL-8SeU

[ghostrider]

They already control all the drugs , now it just gives them more tax deductions ... and they can behind the scenes own local shops everywhere that it is legal ... shipping , warehouse , admin , staffing , networking , advertising , etc ... expanding their empire on the black market and on main street ...

[norman]

If it's true that the elites are going to move to south America when all the cards fall, It may be a little like arming all the Swiss citizens.

It forms a buffer of little protectors with their fingers in the cookie jar. :)

[onawah]

American Herbal Pharmacopoeia monograph lays scientific foundation for quality assurance and expanded research - See more at: http://hemp.org/news/content/global-worlds-leading-experts-issue-standards-cannabis-restore-classification-botanical-medi#sthash.JNRCiDQy.dpuf
Submitted by steveelliott on Wed, 12/11/2013 -
- See more at: http://hemp.org/news/content/global-worlds-leading-experts-issue-standards-cannabis-restore-classification-botanical-medi#sthash.JNRCiDQy.dpuf
http://hemp.org/news/content/global-worlds-leading-experts-issue-standards-cannabis-restore-classification-botanical-medi
http://hemp.org/news/sites/default/files/images/AmericanHerbalPharmacopoeiaCannabisMonograph_0.preview.jpg

U.S.: Experts Issue Standards on Cannabis, Restore Classification as a Botanical Medicine
Submitted by steveelliott on Wed, 12/11/2013 - 18:38 2013 AHP alternative medicines american herbal pharmacopoeia Americans for Safe Access ASA botanical medicine Cannabis compelementary medical marijuana Medicinal Cannabis michelle sexton pharmacopoeia steph sherer therapeutic compendium
AmericanHerbalPharmacopoeiaCannabisMonograph
American Herbal Pharmacopoeia monograph lays scientific foundation for quality assurance and expanded research
The American Herbal Pharmacopoeia (AHP), in a historic move, on Wednesday released the first installation of a two-part Cannabis monograph that classifies cannabis (marijuana) as a botanical medicine, alongside many other widely accepted complementary and alternative medicines.
Written and reviewed by the world's leading experts, the cannabis monograph brings together an authoritative compendium of scientific data, including long-awaited standards for the plant's identity, purity, quality, and botanical properties. The monograph provides a foundation for health care professionals to integrate cannabis therapy into their practices on the basis of a full scientific understanding of the plant, its constituent components, and its biologic effects.
"The inclusion of cannabis in the American Herbal Pharmacopoeia returns the plant to its place alongside as a proven botanical medicine, which has been used for centuries by countries and cultures around the world," said Steph Sherer, executive director of Americans for Safe Access (ASA), which helped support the development of the cannabis monograph.
"Health care professionals, researchers and regulators now have the tools to develop effective public health programs for medical marijuana and to further explore its therapeutic benefits," Sherer said.
ASA will host a Google Hangout on Thursday, December 12 at 5:30 pm PT, featuring a panel of experts discussing the ramifications of the cannabis monograph and a new cannabis certification program.
The first cannabis monograph was introduced in the 3rd edition of the U.S. Pharmacopoeia in 1851, where it remained until the 12th edition in 1942, making the AHP monograph the first of its kind in more than 70 years. Cannabis medicines were produced by Eli Lilly and other American pharmaceutical companies until the federal Marihuana Tax Act of 1937 sharply reduced U.S. cannabis production and prescriptions.
AHP began development of a cannabis monograph in 2011 in part because of a need for validated standards to guide laboratory analysis for quality control of cannabis and related products. However, AHP also recognized that the expanding use of medical marijuana makes accurate information regarding appropriate use and safety important for health care decisions.
Patients, providers, and regulators will also benefit from proven testing standards that can quantify the key chemical compounds, or cannabinoids, that are tied to the plant's therapeutic effects, as well as identify potentially harmful pesticides, metals, and microbes.
The cannabis monograph was reviewed by the world's leading researchers and represents one of the most comprehensive and critically reviewed documents on cannabis in recent times. Much of the information was developed in collaboration with researchers at the University of Mississippi under the guidance of Dr. Mahmoud ElSohly, who oversees the only federally legal source of medical marijuana in the U.S.
The Therapeutic Compendium, the second installment of the cannabis monograph due out this spring, will document the thousands of years of therapeutic cannabis use around the world and describe the totality of modern research on how cannabis directly treats a broad range of conditions and symptoms. It will encompass historical data, pre-clinical and clinical pharmacology, indications, contraindications, side effects, dosing, preparations, safety, use in pregnancy, and interactions with conventional medications, among other fields of information.
"The adoption of cannabis into the American Herbal Pharmacopoeia as a safe, effective and low-cost botanical medicine is a testament to this human-plant relationship and a significant footprint on the trail towards acknowledgment as such by a much broader audience," said Dr. Michelle Sexton, one of the authors and reviewers of the cannabis monograph who is a naturopathic doctor, herbalist, educator and clinical cannabis researcher. Dr. Sexton is currently the medical research director at the Center for the Study of Cannabis and Social Policy.
AHP was formed in 1995 to promote the responsible use of herbal products and herbal medicines. It is a worldwide network of botanists, chemists, herbalists, medical doctors, pharmacists, pharmacologists, and other experts in medicinal plants.
AHP has published monographs for 28 different botanicals, including aloe vera leaf, American ginseng root, and echinacea. The organization expects to eventually publish more than 300 monographs, covering the most widely used western, Ayurvedic, and Chinese botanicals.
Later this week, ASA will launch Patients Focused Certification (PFC), a third-party certification program for the medical cannabis industry based on the AHP Cannabis monograph and new quality standards for medical cannabis products and businesses issued by the American Herbal Products Association. PFC certification and professional training will be available in all 20 medical marijuana states and the District of Columbia.
- See more at: http://hemp.org/news/content/global-worlds-leading-experts-issue-standards-cannabis-restore-classification-botanical-medi#sthash.JNRCiDQy.dpuf

[Azt]

I think your answer is here >
they must be registered with the government.

Basically, you are giving up your privacy. And that is what One World Gov is all about it.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Aiaiaiaiaiaiai, I don't have issues with people smoking a RESPONSIBLE recreational joint once every so often, but there is a real danger in pacifying people this way by a nations government and it works better than fluoride.

[Lifebringer]

Hi jack I think that all the government studies conducted by the Nixon Administration has reached several elites eyes, and they see the potential for trillions if the old would but get out of the way of the new. It's gonna happen and both represent the Dem Party am I right? I mean the Dems have done studies on the cost of non-violent drug dealers and it enters the billions across the nation, so to cut back on the private for profit prison private public partnership cost on the deficit, saner policy must be voted on, and our generation, knows marijuana is harmless, therefore the mistrust between a Government that lies to us for tobacco bribes, will remain, as long as they do lie to the millions of college graduates in the highest of positions that smoke pot and it doesn't alter them other than an appetite and relaxation, better than alcohol martini's and a beer or cigarettes with over 5,000 harmful chemicals such as arsenic and other carcinogenic properties, to pots 43 natural cannabinoid that aid the body for pain, healing, depression, and other eating disorders. That's just the top of the list off hand, wait until they really actually do the honest studies as Nixon did themselves, and they will see, that many a lie was told under a bribe, including fluoride.

PS, Let's hope they don't plan on having gigantic grow fields sprayed with paraffin, will destroy the crops. Anything "unnatural or chemical" will. So Monsanto is out.
Earth, wind, air and water and God's good sun. That's as natural a crop as you can get.

[RMorgan]

Jack,

You're so wrong this time, mate.

Mujica is probably the only honest president in the whole world by now.

He donates 90% of his salary to charity, lives in the same humble ranch he's been living for decades, rides an old VW Beetle...The man is a true hero.

Anyway, I'm not sure if you, living up there in the UK, know about what the so called "war on drugs" has been doing to South America....I guess you have no idea....

Our governments spend billions every year on this war, while this money could be invested in education, hospitals and other public services....It's ridiculous.

You don't know about the level of violence down here...Violence that's mostly caused by this insane war...You have no idea...Do you think you know violence? Hahahaha...Come live here in South America for a while, brother.

The only way to end this war is by legalizing drugs. Period.

Mujica did the right thing. By legalizing Marijuana, the illegal drug business will lose a huge part of their profit source. The govern will be able to use the money previously used in this war for much better purposes.

Five or ten years from now, I'm 100% sure that we all will be contemplating a very successful story here.

Anyway, marijuana was never supposed to be illegal in the first place...It was made illegal mostly because hemp was a true menace to several competing industries back them, like the cotton and paper industry.

You're doing exactly what "they" want you to do, Jack...The elite is scared ****less about Uruguay...They earn hundreds of billions from the illegal drug business every year...Uruguay is giving headaches to some very powerful people right now; You can be 100% sure about that.

Raf.

[Lifebringer]

Marijuana has been used by shaman for healing and spiritual relaxation for centuries, maybe even eons since it's in the Bible far as "bitter herbs." For all we know Moses could have had a salad with them as seasoning. WE cannot allow false ideology to make a truthful solutions to all that is tied to robbing us blind under this law. People's lives completely destroyed after years of education and being good at what they do, getting caught with small amounts and getting life in prison. How much does that cost us? Just saying, this generation is not as gullible as the "reefer madness" hoodwinked. WE did chemical studies and found tobacco wanting as far as "health" so we know there are millions smoking cigarettes with 2nd hand smoke, yet we have laws for that because they're toxic.

A healthy generation will conduct honest studies and dare an instructor to change or challenge the results, based upon ideologic gibberish and staged test results by tobacco companies who made pot illegal for over 100 years. Anniversary is coming up to end this prohibition of the right to partake in the herbs that God put for us to heal body and troubled mind. You know the recessions take a lot out of people and they resort to robbing and pillaging when they are infringed upon and robbed. I'd rather have cooler heads making honest solutions, than irrational ideologist making assumptions for their stock portfolios on Wall Street.

Saner minds will prevail.

[Lifebringer]

If it's legalized, there is no black market. People can add water and sun to a seed and grow their own. I think it's just an investment decision and getting in on the bottom floor before it really takes off. As political as they are, they both know which way the public wind blows and pot is on track to be repealed as a scheduled class 1 drug and put on the botanical health. Once there, they can do nothing to stop average people from lighting one on the porch, as Colorado's law just passed does. Private property allows for them to smoke outside on the porch, front or back. Nothing like a pretty sunset after a hard day of work with a nice one and cold drink of green tea honey and lime.

[Maunagarjana]

Jack,

You're so wrong this time, mate.

Mujica is probably the only honest president in the whole world by now.

He donates 90% of his salary to charity, lives in the same humble ranch he's been living for decades, rides an old VW Beetle...The man is a true hero.

Anyway, I'm not sure if you, living up there in the UK, know about what the so called "war on drugs" has been doing to South America....I guess you have no idea....

Our governments spend billions every year on this war, while this money could be invested in education, hospitals and other public services....It's ridiculous.

You don't know about the level of violence down here...Violence that's mostly caused by this insane war...You have no idea...Do you think you know violence? Hahahaha...Come live here in South America for a while, brother.

The only way to end this war is by legalizing drugs. Period.

Mujica did the right thing. By legalizing Marijuana, the illegal drug business will lose a huge part of their profit source. The govern will be able to use the money previously used in this war for much better purposes.

Five or ten years from now, I'm 100% sure that we all will be contemplating a very successful story here.

Anyway, marijuana was never supposed to be illegal in the first place...It was made illegal mostly because hemp was a true menace to several competing industries back them, like the cotton and paper industry.

You're doing exactly what "they" want you to do, Jack...The elite is scared ****less about Uruguay...They earn hundreds of billions from the illegal drug business every year...Uruguay is giving headaches to some very powerful people right now; You can be 100% sure about that.

Raf.

I agree with you, Raf. Jackovesk, The meeting you cite between Soros and Rockefeller with Mujica seems less to me about them advocating for this, but more about them trying to minimize their losses by seeing if they an get something out of it. That's how these people work, in my opinion. It's not just a matter of them pushing a particular agenda (though they do), but by making sure that whatever happens, whether they wanted it or not, somehow manages to work in their favor. I see this legalization as a good thing for the most part, and I hope they are the first of many to legalize.

[Maunagarjana]

Aiaiaiaiaiaiai, I don't have issues with people smoking a RESPONSIBLE recreational joint once every so often, but there is a real danger in pacifying people this way by a nations government and it works better than fluoride.

Oh, come on....this is really a mischaracterization of marijuana, in my experience. It actually seems to aid in people deprogramming themselves in most cases, unless they are combining it with booze and pills. I know a lot of stoners, and most of them are generally pretty awake compared to the larger population. If it was anything comparable to fluoride, like you say, pot would be in every convenience store across the land. But instead, it's a long slow struggle to legalize something that never should have been made illegal in the first place.

[RMorgan]

Aiaiaiaiaiaiai, I don't have issues with people smoking a RESPONSIBLE recreational joint once every so often, but there is a real danger in pacifying people this way by a nations government and it works better than fluoride.

Oh, come on....this is really a mischaracterization of marijuana, in my experience. It actually seems to aid in people deprogramming themselves in most cases, unless they are combining it with booze and pills. I know a lot of stoners, and most of them are generally pretty awake compared to the larger population. If it was anything comparable to fluoride, like you say, pot would be in every convenience store across the land. But instead, it's a long slow struggle to legalize something that never should have been made illegal in the first place.

I totally agree with you.

The way I see it, marijuana users are much more prone to engage in political and social causes than non-users...Much more.

In fact, I don't know any long term marijuana user who is not aware of the current most important political or social issues.

Being pacific has nothing to do with being a conformist.

Raf.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Aiaiaiaiaiaiai, I don't have issues with people smoking a RESPONSIBLE recreational joint once every so often, but there is a real danger in pacifying people this way by a nations government and it works better than fluoride.

Oh, come on....this is really a mischaracterization of marijuana, in my experience. It actually seems to aid in people deprogramming themselves in most cases, unless they are combining it with booze and pills. I know a lot of stoners, and most of them are generally pretty awake compared to the larger population. If it was anything comparable to fluoride, like you say, pot would be in every convenience store across the land. But instead, it's a long slow struggle to legalize something that never should have been made illegal in the first place.

Hi, somehow I get the impression you perceive as some sort of tight@ss, I am not, I smoked weed for 24 years ( and then some) and the part that totally bummed me out about A LOT of pot smokers was their fake activism and lazy non conformist attitudes, complaining, being high and blame problems on everyone but themselves, the world sucks, politicians suck, things should change and most just stayed like that, and those attitudes have nothing to to with being awake and or aware, 9 out 10 times it was just acting out, agreed with the 'should not be illegal in the first place', its a frikkin plant and does what it is supposed to, grow, that doesn't mean I applaud people being stoned when and where ever they please to do so, and I certainly will not encourage it, AT ALL, besides SOME positive effects like the medicinal and industrial uses are excellent properties of the plant, even smoking it IF you grew it YOURSELF and do so with your head straight on you shoulders doesn't bother me, government should be involved in the turning around the perceptions of this plant, it also has a responsibility to have a moderate stance on the recreational use of it, its not all peachy imo, and frankly I don't understand why the cons are hardly discussed, did the fact that we are being doped from every direction by alcohol, medication, chemicals, tv, politicians and drugs pass you by?

Fresh minds is what we need most, stoned if fine but theres nothing wrong with growing up either.

I have no issues with responsible adults having a bit of fun, the second their fun is starting to influence my life in a negative way, I want to state that observation, as long as we live in a society that is organized as it is today it means I am the one that has to pay for the mess by others and I have only so much energy to spend, to many times I have seen people become passive, this is not all nice peacefull and peachy, get used to it.

[LivioRazlo]

The way I see it, marijuana users are much more prone to engage in political and social causes than non-users...Much more.

In fact, I don't know any long term marijuana user who is not aware of the current most important political or social issues.



You hit the nail on the head with that comment. For the 10 years that I did smoke marijuana, I was always engaging all my friends in political and religious discussions. Though I know at the time they were not on my level of understanding and comprehension, to this day - without marijuana of course, I still engage anyone who will give me the time of day in these types of conversations.

[apokalypse]

here's the question that i raise when heard legalise Marijuana....

is it legal to grow at home or only Businesses able to grow Marijuana?
is the seed or Marijuana pure? or have been modify?

i prefer grow my own plant with pure natural seed...if only business then pretty much making money profiteering for them.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

is the seed or Marijuana pure? or have been modify?

Best questions on the thread, what is pure, you can bet your @ss when government / big business gets involved for the tax revenue it will be manipulated and altered, most weed sold today is a mix of different strains, no problem so far, its just cross pollinating, you can get a better plant or a plant with different properties with a different high, just playtime, what you don't want is a company like for example Monsanto involved in this because they will not stop at just cross pollinating for fun.

wMp7H3hZjsU

[apokalypse]

Best questions on the thread, what is pure, you can bet your @ss when government / big business gets involved for the tax revenue it will be manipulated and altered, most weed sold today is a mix of different strains, no problem so far, its just cross pollinating, you can get a better plant or a plant with different properties with a different high, just playtime, what you don't want is a company like for example Monsanto involved in this because they will not stop at just cross pollinating for fun.



that's what i'm afraid off...you can grow at home but the Seed might be altered with such things like GMO/Monsanto(what ever you want to labelled it) and sell it on the market.

[RMorgan]

Best questions on the thread, what is pure, you can bet your @ss when government / big business gets involved for the tax revenue it will be manipulated and altered, most weed sold today is a mix of different strains, no problem so far, its just cross pollinating, you can get a better plant or a plant with different properties with a different high, just playtime, what you don't want is a company like for example Monsanto involved in this because they will not stop at just cross pollinating for fun.



that's what i'm afraid off...you can grow at home but the Seed might be altered with such things like GMO/Monsanto(what ever you want to labelled it) and sell it on the market.

You don't need to worry about that.

There are literally thousands of different kinds of seeds out there. There are huge global internet communities exclusively dedicated to exchanging different seeds with different properties.

The Cannabis is one of the most diversified plants in the whole world...

So, it's literally impossible to monopolize the seed market.

Besides, the Cannabis is an extremely resistant plant; It doesn't need agrotoxics at all, so there's absolutely no reason for Monsanto to get involved with it. Monsanto is not in the GMO business primarily; Their GMO products are just a consequence and a byproduct of their main business, which is agrotoxics and pesticides.

[blufire]

For the past couple years when these threads come up about legalizing cannabis and medical marijuana I just shake my head, that up until now (that I know of) with the posts from a couple above no one has brought the reality up that . . . . . .

Marijuana/cannabis has been genetically modified for years. The pot consumed today is thoroughly GMO and every strain of cannabis in the ‘medical marijuana’ industry is genetically modified or altered in some way.

I am all for legalized cannabis and hemp if it is the medicinal herb and natural product before all the hybridization and genetic modification.
But lets face it folks . . . . how many of you out there that smoke marijuana actually smoke the good ‘ole original heirloom or standard variety of hemp/cannabis?

I have grown a lot of pot and the plants I grow (from standard seed) look nothing like the pot grown by the majority today.

This step of legalizing genetically mutated cannabis is simply another step toward a One World Government and utter control of every aspect of society.

I also am always amazed that most try to refute the residual affect of smoking pot which is primarily a calming or pacifying of the central nervous system. It makes one much more controllable . . . . especially if the constituent (chemical part) in the gmo pot is enhanced.

The article below was written in 2011 and is very basic info on the subject (gmo pot) Just google gmo cannabis and see how deep this goes.


This past week yielded some exciting news in the field of “Cannabis science” with the announcement that the Cannabis Sativa genome (DNA) has been sequenced. Every organism, Cannabis and Human included, has a genome that contains all of the biological information needed to build and maintain a living example of that organism. Therefore, the sequencing of the Cannabis genome is significant in the research and better understanding of the Cannabis plant, but it will also allow scientists to grow genetically modified cannabis.
The raw sequence was posted on Amazon’s EC2 public cloud computing service by a start-up company called Medicinal Genomics, which aims to explore the genomes of therapeutic plants. According Medicinal Genomics founder, Kevin McKernan, one of the main reasons the company published the data publicly was due to anti-marijuana laws in most countries.
Most current research into Cannabis and cancer has been done on the two most commonly known compounds, THC and CBD. However, KcKernan hopes that the genome will allow scientists to explore other cannabis compounds for potential medical benefit, as well as starting a breeding program to create new, genetically modified, Cannabis strains.
Good intentions aside, the medical marijuana business is huge and is growing by over 50% a year. There is big money to be made, especially if pharmaceutical Cannabis products or genetically modified cannabis strains are the only legal form of the drug.
“It’s going to have to be a fairly regulated market,” McKernan says, “and regulation is going to come through genetics and fingerprinting of which strains are approved.”
“It may be possible through genome directed breeding to attenuate the psychoactive effects of cannabis, while enhancing the medicinal aspects.”
Taking the “marijuana” out of marijuana, whilst still retaining it’s medicinal qualities, might just be the thing that swings full-blown support for medical cannabis. Although, this is highly unlikely as the main compounds responsible for making us high and relaxed (THC and CBD) are the ones with all the medicinal qualities, as is the case with the legal cannabis based pharmaceutical drug, Sativex [read more]. But that’s not to say more compounds with medicinal qualities wont be identified.
Unlocking the Cannabis plant’s genetic code gives way to an array of possibilities, as well as a lot of potential money, but it’s all tied up in the medical field. For us as users and patients, we can be happy that this research will potentially help those living with diseases like cancer and glaucoma. On the flip side, however, “cannabis genetics” could lead to stricter regulations and controls when it comes to medical marijuana, therefore keeping it out of the hands of those patients who can’t afford to pay the exorbitant price-tags on patented medication, but need it none the less. After all, it’s just a plant.

http://www.belowthelion.co.za/genetically-modified-marijuana-the-future-of-medical-cannabis/


If you smoke pot then I would suggest you grow and use the original standard truly natural Cannabaceae, sativa.

[blufire]

Best questions on the thread, what is pure, you can bet your @ss when government / big business gets involved for the tax revenue it will be manipulated and altered, most weed sold today is a mix of different strains, no problem so far, its just cross pollinating, you can get a better plant or a plant with different properties with a different high, just playtime, what you don't want is a company like for example Monsanto involved in this because they will not stop at just cross pollinating for fun.



that's what i'm afraid off...you can grow at home but the Seed might be altered with such things like GMO/Monsanto(what ever you want to labelled it) and sell it on the market.

You don't need to worry about that.

There are literally thousands of different kinds of seeds out there. There are huge global internet communities exclusively dedicated to exchanging different seeds with different properties.

The Cannabis is one of the most diversified plants in the whole world...

So, it's literally impossible to monopolize the seed market.

Besides, the Cannabis is an extremely resistant plant; It doesn't need agrotoxics at all, so there's absolutely no reason for Monsanto to get involved with it. Monsanto is not in the GMO business primarily; Their GMO products are just a consequence and a byproduct of their main business, which is agrotoxics and pesticides.


Wow Raf . . . you usually make really educated posts but I will have to call this post of yours absolute . . . . :bs:

Just saying . . . . .

[Dennis Leahy]

No, marijuana is not GMO. That is an incorrect statement. You need to understand what GMO is, and what is ISN'T.

The cannabis plant easily and readily cross-pollinates and naturally produces sub-varieties. That is why growers now do not start with seeds, but rather start with cuttings (I think somewhat incorrectly called "clones") from one plant - then all of the new plants are genetically "identical" to the mother plant. It would not be at all impossible to genetically modify, but the plant's natural proclivity to produce sub-varieties would mean that as generations of the seeds are grown, the plants would be less and less like MonSatan's franken-weed. It's probably why they have not bothered...yet.

Dennis

[RMorgan]

Wow Raf . . . you usually make really educated posts but I will have to call this post of yours absolute . . . . :bs:

Just saying . . . . .

As Dennis said above, there's a big difference between GMO and simple cross-pollination, which is a natural process (you just take the pollen from a male plant and use it to pollinate a female plant from a different strain).

Besides, in places like India, it's possible to find marijuana strains that haven't been altered for thousands of years.

So, my friend, I'm not really the only saying BS here.

You're totally; utterly wrong, blufire.

As for marijuana making people peaceful, yes, it's a pacifying plant. However, as I said before, there's a big difference between being pacific and conformist.

Honestly, I'm yet to meet a conformist marijuana user. Everyone I know who enjoys smoking pot is much more awake and aware than the general population.

[blufire]

lol . . . . okay guys

I guess my 30 years of intense organic farming and growing and saving my own seed and hybridizing my own plants has absolutely no merit here

Growing that also includes pot.

Let alone my years of research into GMO’s

Geez, what’s a girl to think here?


To think that ‘they’ haven’t been on top of this for years and manipulating every aspect is very naïve . . . . in my little ‘ole opinion.

Grow your own . . . just like we should be growing our own food . . . IF you want to make sure of what you are consuming


For me, this thread goes hand in hand with this thread . . . no difference really

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66342-JP-Morgan-about-to-unleash-its-own-version-of-bitcoin

[jackovesk]

Jack,

You're so wrong this time, mate.

Mujica is probably the only honest president in the whole world by now.

He donates 90% of his salary to charity, lives in the same humble ranch he's been living for decades, rides an old VW Beetle...The man is a true hero.

Anyway, I'm not sure if you, living up there in the UK, know about what the so called "war on drugs" has been doing to South America....I guess you have no idea....

Our governments spend billions every year on this war, while this money could be invested in education, hospitals and other public services....It's ridiculous.

You don't know about the level of violence down here...Violence that's mostly caused by this insane war...You have no idea...Do you think you know violence? Hahahaha...Come live here in South America for a while, brother.

The only way to end this war is by legalizing drugs. Period.

Mujica did the right thing. By legalizing Marijuana, the illegal drug business will lose a huge part of their profit source. The govern will be able to use the money previously used in this war for much better purposes.

Five or ten years from now, I'm 100% sure that we all will be contemplating a very successful story here.

Anyway, marijuana was never supposed to be illegal in the first place...It was made illegal mostly because hemp was a true menace to several competing industries back them, like the cotton and paper industry.

You're doing exactly what "they" want you to do, Jack...The elite is scared ****less about Uruguay...They earn hundreds of billions from the illegal drug business every year...Uruguay is giving headaches to some very powerful people right now; You can be 100% sure about that.

Raf.

Out of context there Raf...

My real question as stated in my OP...


Bit stumped on this one, as to the reason Why? Soros & Rockefeller are involved...?

My comments weren't aimed at Mujica in any way shape or form...:nono:

However, I enjoyed your history lesson though...:thumb:

[Carmody]

Jack,

You're so wrong this time, mate.

Mujica is probably the only honest president in the whole world by now.

He donates 90% of his salary to charity, lives in the same humble ranch he's been living for decades, rides an old VW Beetle...The man is a true hero.

Anyway, I'm not sure if you, living up there in the UK, know about what the so called "war on drugs" has been doing to South America....I guess you have no idea....

Our governments spend billions every year on this war, while this money could be invested in education, hospitals and other public services....It's ridiculous.

You don't know about the level of violence down here...Violence that's mostly caused by this insane war...You have no idea...Do you think you know violence? Hahahaha...Come live here in South America for a while, brother.

The only way to end this war is by legalizing drugs. Period.

Mujica did the right thing. By legalizing Marijuana, the illegal drug business will lose a huge part of their profit source. The govern will be able to use the money previously used in this war for much better purposes.

Five or ten years from now, I'm 100% sure that we all will be contemplating a very successful story here.

Anyway, marijuana was never supposed to be illegal in the first place...It was made illegal mostly because hemp was a true menace to several competing industries back them, like the cotton and paper industry.

You're doing exactly what "they" want you to do, Jack...The elite is scared ****less about Uruguay...They earn hundreds of billions from the illegal drug business every year...Uruguay is giving headaches to some very powerful people right now; You can be 100% sure about that.

Raf.

I agree with you, Raf. Jackovesk, The meeting you cite between Soros and Rockefeller with Mujica seems less to me about them advocating for this, but more about them trying to minimize their losses by seeing if they an get something out of it. That's how these people work, in my opinion. It's not just a matter of them pushing a particular agenda (though they do), but by making sure that whatever happens, whether they wanted it or not, somehow manages to work in their favor. I see this legalization as a good thing for the most part, and I hope they are the first of many to legalize.

The other thing is that those who attempt to interject their systems of control, to inject the levers and methods they employ..those people MUST come to 'enjoin' with the person or group that is causing them (or their controlling groups they are involved with) grief.

The wolf must near the sheep. Must. Otherwise their job cannot be completed. Be it peacetime or war, open conflict or hidden, direct connection of a sort, must be made.

For example, go and read wade's Opus thread over in the priority thread section. It's some form of getting inside the envelope of the real running of the situation, and the minds of the people involved, in Uruguay.

This is reconnaissance, involvement, infiltration, information gathering, and so on. doors open for people like Soros, so he was sent. Sent by himself and those whom he is involved with.

In that way, people like Soros, and those he disseminates his direct experience of the Uruguay situation to... can then respond remotely, they can plan and execute remotely, due to first hand knowledge of the situation and people in Uruguay.

[RMorgan]

Bit stumped on this one, as to the reason Why? Soros & Rockefeller are involved...?

Why?

It's a brand new market, with potential for generating billions.

Soros, Rockefeller and any other interested part can earn a lot of money with this.

Uruguay is a developing country; It could really use some more foreign investment right now.

Mujica is not stupid; This measure will generate and liberate a lot of money from all fronts:

a) Foreign companies will invest in commercial marijuana and hemp. Marijuana is a very lucrative plant; It's very cheap to cultivate, which generates pretty good profit margins.
b) The money previously spent with the war on drugs will be liberated for more important uses.
c) The govern will also earn a lot of money by taxing the now legal marijuana.
d) A lot of money will be generated through marijuana tourism.

Mujica is the president of a developing country; It's simply natural that he's trying to attract foreign investment for his country by meeting high level business men. This is part of his duties.

You know, sometimes it's hard to understand conspiracy theorists...This is one of those cases...First they claim that there's a huge conspiracy behind the prohibition of marijuana, now they are complaining that there's another huge conspiracy behind the legalization of marijuana...Eventually, they'll have to make up their minds about this issue.

In my opinion, Uruguay is on the right path. Besides being a very soft recreational drug, marijuana has a lot of medical potential and hemp itself is the best natural fiber available by far...It's a great plant and it doesn't make any sense to prohibit it in the first place.

Raf.

[Dennis Leahy]

The article below was written in 2011 and is very basic info on the subject (gmo pot) Just google gmo cannabis and see how deep this goes.


This past week yielded some exciting news in the field of “Cannabis science” with the announcement that the Cannabis Sativa genome (DNA) has been sequenced. Every organism, Cannabis and Human included, has a genome that contains all of the biological information needed to build and maintain a living example of that organism. Therefore, the sequencing of the Cannabis genome is significant in the research and better understanding of the Cannabis plant, but it will also allow scientists to grow genetically modified cannabis.
...
{snip} read the full quote at bluefire's post above


I'd defer to a geneticist on this, but when it was announced that the human genome had been sequenced, was that the genome of a particular individual (to whom we are all related), or to a specific "race" or "sub-variety" of human, or to all of humanity? Extrapolating, is the genome mapping of cannabis sativa a general map of all cannabis (including cannabis sativa, cannabis indica, and cannabis ruderalis...and all sub-types) or just one plant?

Secondarily, what does genome mapping have to do with genetic modification through GMO protocol (injecting the genes of another organism, usually via yet another species, often a virus?) Again, I'm no geneticist, but I doubt that MonSatan mapped the entire genome of soy and sugar beets and corn, but rather simply spliced a foreign gene into those plants to be able to withstand glyphosate and/or to self-produce bT toxin.

So, I wonder how much of the quoted article plays on our ignorance of genetics, drops buzzwords, and makes false conclusions that the average person would not be able to detect with our BS detectors. What the greed-driven GMO corporations could do, however, is to genetically modify one seed, patent it, plant one plant, clone it and plant a field of "starts" from that one plant, test it with multimillion dollar studies that no one else could do, collude with the FDA, and then declare that they have the only US FDA approved, "standardized" source of CBD or THC or other cannabinoids for medical use. I'm quite sure there are men in white lab coats working on that, and they will certainly have the support of the men in long black ballgowns (the US Supreme Court) when the time comes to seal the deal. So, yes, there are worries for the future of cannabis in medicine, and we would be naive not to recognize that these greedy bastards will do everything in their considerable power to own this miraculous medicinal plant that has been suppressed from humanity.

This also strays away from the OP topic (sorry) but the notion that cannabis is ALREADY all GMOd (as opposed to hybridized - a centuries old practice by man, and a million of years old practice by nature) is incorrect.

Segueing back...


Will he be the world's biggest drug dealer? Uruguay president in 'groundbreaking' move to legalise marijuana trade

December 12, 2013 8:27AM

THIS country's government is about to become the world's biggest drug dealer.

That's sensationalist - and untrue. "Drug dealer" is pejorative. Did the US government become the largest drug dealer when prohibition was repealed and alcohol could be legally sold in the US as long as the official US government tax was paid? From accounts that have been leaked, the CIA is the largest illegal drug dealer in the world, both heroin and cocaine, and through US government (FDA + USDA) collusion with Big Pharma, and the fact that the US government is itself invested heavily into Big Pharma, I would say makes the US government the largest legal drug dealers in the world as well.



Uruguay is about to launch a daring national experiment. Both houses of the Latin American nation's Congress have approved a plan to create the world's first legal market for cannabis.

Well, someone should tell California, Washington, Colorado, etc. that they were not really the first legal market. Or Amsterdam. I suppose in a way it is true about the US states, as there is the ongoing clash with the federal government that has not been properly paid off yet, and so they are still making federal raids in those states. (Hey, maybe to stock-up the underground cities!)


The laws go well beyond well beyond the famously liberal pot laws in the Netherlands or recent measures in the US states of Colorado and Washington.

Consumers over 18 will be able to grow their own marijuana, though no more than six plants per person. They can also get it through clubs or buy up to 40 grams per month from pharmacies. In every case, they must be registered with the government.Corn and potatoes can be used to make alcohol. Perhaps the Uruguayan government should limit the number of those plants to six as well.

{I am a proponent of full decriminalization/legalization, without taxation, and without restrictions. I don't want ginseng or turmeric or cinnamon or "black seed" (Nigella sativa) or echineca or peppermint or dandelion or calendula... the list of plants goes on ad infinitum... regulated and taxed either. We don't need nannies and nanny states, and the sooner we move on to the era of self-governance and self-regulation and self-responsibility, the better.}



The laws were championed by President Jose Mujica, a 78-year-old former rebel fighter, and backed by New York billionaires.

The government's campaign received help from billionaire George Soros, who provided support for a national TV campaign and other lobbying efforts.

In September, Mujica met with Soros and billionaire David Rockefeller in New York to explain his legal-market plan.

Yes, it is extremely troubling when Rockefeller (especially) gets his filthy fingers into any pie. I see Soros as a conflicted multibillionaire, occasionally looking in the mirror and deciding to put on a white hat for a little while. I don't see him as pure evil, the way I see Rockefeller. But yes, it is troubling when these guys want in on the action.

Mujica argued the global drug war is a failure.He was right. It was never a war that was intended to be "won" - as is true with all wars; the intent was the ongoing money to be made in both selling and persecuting, er, I mean prosecuting drugs. Imagine how awful it would be for the US (and other) governments, and corporations, to lose the stream of tens of billions of dollars annually if everyone stopped taking illegal drugs.



PS - I'll just repeat the thread (Heading) again...


Ok Conspiracy Theorists - Try and explain (WhY) Soros, Rockefeller & Uruguay Govt. teamed up to legalise Marijuana??? The only 2 things that came to mind was...

1. Obviously they're in for a slice of the action..:yes4:

2. They are testing out the new (Business Model) in order to eventually (Legalise) their own Criminal Drug Distribution activities...:confused:

Bit stumped on this one, as to the reason Why? Soros & Rockefeller are involved...?

So, I welcome you all to wrap your mind around their (Strategy) and let us know what other explanations that may have (Validity) as to (Why?) they (Funded It)...:noidea:

One's thing I think I can say safely on behalf of all of you is...

They are up (No Good) as per usual...!!!Agreed. Almost undoubtedly greed-driven, though I will toss in the possibility that Soros had a white hat day and gave some money to Mujica's TV campaign to get the necessary support to pass the law because it was the right thing to do. Another possibility for Soros was that it was a PR-driven move, to be seen as a white hat. Rockefeller doesn't own a white hat and it would probably make his brain short-circuit to even try one on.

And, amazing as it is that Uruguay did this, it is still a weak law with massive regulation still a part of it (Grow 7 plants? Smoke when you're 16? Smoke without registering?) What will the Uruguayan police and justice system do to those that bend these laws?

Dennis

[AriG]

My first sarcastic thought was they bought stock in Fritos? The reality (IMO) is that weed will be used as a tool, just like all of the other drugs... alcohol, tobacco, television, entertainment, food... a means to pacify the masses. Keep the natives from being less "restless".

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

YAY!

(hehe)

[Davidallany]

Is this another genetically engineered plant? Who is to say that the original seeds have been replaced with another modified ones, just like the majority of seeds around the world.
A doped out population is better to control than an awakened one, that is very easy to see, so it is now up to the people of Uruguay to make a stand and refuse to swallow the bait. They can choose.

[carriellbee]

I think I would prefer that "U.S. Experts" not interfere.

[jackovesk]

Thanks for all your Answers, I think we covered a fair percentage of the reasons as to WhY? Soros and Rockefeller are involved in all this...:yes4:

However, I really think it goes (Way Way Way) DEEPER than that...:wizard:

I'm thinking more along the lines of a PsyOp within a PsyOp, definitely something those 2 Ass-CLOWNS couldn't come up with on their own...:nono:

[silent1]

Getting into specifics, I wonder if the government will regulate seeds. Yeah, one can grow 6 plants if one wishes but do the seeds have to come from the government or some affiliated organisation?

*EDIT* Oops, I should have read more of the thread before writing this.

[sigma6]

haven't read all the posts, but just wanted to get my two cents in!

They want in on the ground floor, this is something new, outside of their control, and they want to start collecting and analyzing the data from day one, that is how these people operate, they want to figure out the politics, economics and social interpretation before anyone else...

Another thing I heard the legalization isn't the way to go, it should be decriminalization. Legalization implies government licensing, control manipulation, and that is where these Skanker Kings could have a huge influence, they could try to come in there, finance everything and take control.

KEEP IT SIMPLE ... YOU KNOW THESE GUYS CAN'T BE TRUSTED... THEY ONLY HAVE ONE INTEREST... CONTROL...

If I was Mujica, I'd have 24 hour surveillance on those guys and tell them to take their filthy blood money and get the hell out of my damned country.

[sigma6]

Is this another genetically engineered plant? Who is to say that the original seeds have been replaced with another modified ones, just like the majority of seeds around the world.
A doped out population is better to control than an awakened one, that is very easy to see, so it is now up to the people of Uruguay to make a stand and refuse to swallow the bait. They can choose.


With proper education, smoking marijuana can be incredibly beneficial, like teens when they first get their hands on alcohol its about having a marathon to see who can become comatose first. Weed is no different it is a drug and it requires an education, I believe one is missing out if they don't practice refinement, the less taken, the more valuable the experience... until you can't actually directly experience any high except in its effect (ie. less pain, less stress, lighter mood, easier to focus on smaller details... it's all about refinement)

In general I think people are taking 5 to 10x more than is necessary, largely due to public perception. One puff may be all you need depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

There is a huge trade off, according to Dr Michael Persinger, it has two major influences, it stimulates the cerebral cortex, and at the same time collects around the hypothalamus, which controls short term memory. Which is the classic "stoner experience" (and indicative of having taken too much) the profound insight combined with the inability to remember what you just thought. The implication is clear. Tiny quantities taken like you would any serious drug that you respect. The mental stimulation is REAL. But a drug is a drug, and should be treated with the same respect we treat all drugs, and herbs, like caffeine, aspirin, alcohol, etc...

Although this is about psychotropics, he also discusses cannabis and it's powerful , where I gleaned this insight originally... worth watching

6Auqfuo8fmE

[sigma6]

Bit stumped on this one, as to the reason Why? Soros & Rockefeller are involved...?

Why?

It's a brand new market, with potential for generating billions.

Soros, Rockefeller and any other interested part can earn a lot of money with this.

Uruguay is a developing country; It could really use some more foreign investment right now.

Mujica is not stupid; This measure will generate and liberate a lot of money from all fronts:

a) Foreign companies will invest in commercial marijuana and hemp. Marijuana is a very lucrative plant; It's very cheap to cultivate, which generates pretty good profit margins.
b) The money previously spent with the war on drugs will be liberated for more important uses.
c) The govern will also earn a lot of money by taxing the now legal marijuana.
d) A lot of money will be generated through marijuana tourism.

Mujica is the president of a developing country; It's simply natural that he's trying to attract foreign investment for his country by meeting high level business men. This is part of his duties.

You know, sometimes it's hard to understand conspiracy theorists...This is one of those cases...First they claim that there's a huge conspiracy behind the prohibition of marijuana, now they are complaining that there's another huge conspiracy behind the legalization of marijuana...Eventually, they'll have to make up their minds about this issue.

In my opinion, Uruguay is on the right path. Besides being a very soft recreational drug, marijuana has a lot of medical potential and hemp itself is the best natural fiber available by far...It's a great plant and it doesn't make any sense to prohibit it in the first place.

Raf.

Agreed, I heard marijuana is one of the highest return plants that you can plant in the world, that creates the most oil for example, hemp, seeds. I believe for a legal non black market farming plant (thinking of poppys) But not withstanding in terms of the benefit to the soil, and the return on your investment. I have heard the Cannabis is the most profitable plant per square hectare. Dollar for Dollar, and the green benefit of growing hemp is gravy. It's all pluses, an economic money maker hands down.

And these rats KNOW all about the ECONOMICS of hemp. The return on investment could turn Uruguay's economy around in a heartbeat, but these guys could get in so thick and heavy it would be wiser to keep them out. They know because they own the pharmaceutical companies that have done millions in research on cannabis. I met one of these guys and he told me all about it, but refused to tell me the company he worked for, it was that secret. THEY KNOW more then anyone else.

The false reality has been shattered, with the growth and production of Hemp they don't need outside help And if they want money they can find better safer partners, they don't need much to get started, They don't need these parasitic vampires. If they are just willing to take action And do the hard work. The profits will be almost instantaneous. Just stopping spending money on death and the war on drugs alone will add 10-20% to their standard of living overnight! Every cop that gets off the corporate welfare and actually gets a real jobs turns a drag on the economy into a plus.

Soros and Rockefeller know this thing is going to take off and make HUGE PROFIT with or without them... Just like the pharmaceutical companies who really were the only people who had the science of statistics to see the trends, got in on the vaccine market, knowing full bloody well the new trends on the disease were all coming down with new health and hygiene practices, they just showed up to take the credit, AGAIN, they had the data, they KNEW... it just creates an artificial association in peoples mind and the rest is media propaganda and now they are sucking billions out of the standard of living and health of millions...

Soros and Rockefeller can't do any good, and the longer term the more absolutely true it will be. These are CRIMINAL MASTERMINDS.

You can associate with rich people you may become wise, you can hang around kind people you may become loving and spiritual and if you hang around rich people, you will end up being their lackey... They know how to make THEMSELVES RICH, that usually means just enough to keep everyone else alive. with a few lucky jack pot winners in key positions... DON'T DO IT MUJI!!!!!

DON'T GET LURED IN!! Just take their business cards and "promise" that you will absolutely get back to them on it... and tell them how much you appreciate their interest... and then as soon as you get around the corner RUN!!!!...

[sigma6]

Hi jack I think that all the government studies conducted by the Nixon Administration has reached several elites eyes, and they see the potential for trillions if the old would but get out of the way of the new. It's gonna happen and both represent the Dem Party am I right? I mean the Dems have done studies on the cost of non-violent drug dealers and it enters the billions across the nation, so to cut back on the private for profit prison private public partnership cost on the deficit, saner policy must be voted on, and our generation, knows marijuana is harmless, therefore the mistrust between a Government that lies to us for tobacco bribes, will remain, as long as they do lie to the millions of college graduates in the highest of positions that smoke pot and it doesn't alter them other than an appetite and relaxation, better than alcohol martini's and a beer or cigarettes with over 5,000 harmful chemicals such as arsenic and other carcinogenic properties, to pots 43 natural cannabinoid that aid the body for pain, healing, depression, and other eating disorders. That's just the top of the list off hand, wait until they really actually do the honest studies as Nixon did themselves, and they will see, that many a lie was told under a bribe, including fluoride.

PS, Let's hope they don't plan on having gigantic grow fields sprayed with paraffin, will destroy the crops. Anything "unnatural or chemical" will. So Monsanto is out.
Earth, wind, air and water and God's good sun. That's as natural a crop as you can get.

Amen brother!...
I was thinking Ecuador, but this definitely changes my travel plan options! Think of the tourism boost alone!!!!!
AWESOME CONGRATULATIONS URUGUAY! LEAD THE WAY... AND TELL THOSE VAMPIRIC MONEY MAGGOTS TO LEAVE... AND PRAY FOR MUJICA, HIS LIFE IS IN DANGER. (Unless they already got to him)... Otherwise this could end up being another grand experiment that will be flushed down the toilet after Soros and Rockefeller are finished wiping their a**es with this country...

The more I think about them trying to get involved, the more creeped out I am getting!

Everyone should subscribe to this facebook page it has tons of great info
https://www.facebook.com/ClearUK

[Dennis Leahy]

lol . . . . okay guys

I guess my 30 years of intense organic farming and growing and saving my own seed and hybridizing my own plants has absolutely no merit here

Growing that also includes pot.

Let alone my years of research into GMO’s

Geez, what’s a girl to think here?


To think that ‘they’ haven’t been on top of this for years and manipulating every aspect is very naïve . . . . in my little ‘ole opinion.
...

blufire,

Your credibility, past accomplishments, and current accomplishments are not being attacked nor discounted. You simply made a wrong statement, and you made it as a declarative statement, not as an opinion. If you had said, "I'll bet cannabis will end up being farmed using GMO cannabis seeds, I would have agreed with your opinion, your guess. It is just the kind of thing the sneaky sociopathic bastards in Monsanto's boardroom think up: pay for (probably even author!) legislation that makes farming hemp/low-THC cannabis (fiber product) and medical/recreational cannabis legal as long as approved seeds are used... and of course, the only seeds that would be approved would be Monsanto's.

But that is quite different from saying that "Marijuana/cannabis has been genetically modified for years. The pot consumed today is thoroughly GMO and every strain of cannabis in the ‘medical marijuana’ industry is genetically modified or altered in some way." This statement is false. Further, there are forum members and non-member readers that have read enough of your material to assume that you knew what you were talking about when you made that statement, and placed faith/trust in that declarative statement because it came from you. So, rather than feeling like you are being personally attacked (you weren't and you aren't), this is an opportunity to set the record straight and either state it clearly as unfounded conjecture or opinion, or just say, "oops, I was wrong."

I have a lot of respect for you and want to converse on topics where I may have a disagreement with you - using logic, rhetoric (real meaning of the word), and verifiable facts to expound an idea or persuade, and not to see a "defense of self" substituted for a defense of the point(s) being argued.

There is no giant corporation behind medical cannabis, YET. Again, I'm with your opinion 100% if you're arguing that Monsanto, Syngenta and others WANT to genetically modify cannabis, and probably already have, in labs... BUT that's a far cry from stating that all medical marijuana is already GMO. My opinion (impossible to verify) is that very close to ZERO percent of medical marijuana is genetically modified. The growers themselves have already - via hybridization and selection - produced strains that yield over 25% THC in the final, cleaned flowers. I know that some growers have strains that have been bred for high-output of CBD or other non-psychoactive (but still medicinal) cannabinoids. Why would they need (or risk destroying their reputation with) GMO cannabis seeds or cuttings (should they become available) when they already have remarkable success and extremely satisfied clients?

To declare that statement as you did is to say, "oh, what the hell, Monsanto already took over cannabis with genetic modification - there's nothing we can do" and creates a false meme. I'm sure you don't want to be responsible for creating a false meme, so again, I'd ask you to clarify that your statement is actually unfounded conjecture or that you made a mistake.

Dennis

[Positive Vibe Merchant]

This is definitely a good thing (legalizing), but the issue that I have, is the money that will be coming in to fund it (IE Soros/Rocerfeller) We all know these goons are power and money hungry, and care nothing for the people they trample. As was said earlier,l the wolf need to be close to the sheep to strike.

There is big money here, and the banksters know it. Uruguay needs to be extremely careful. I say boot them, and take the time to do it yourself. do it right, and keep them out...

You will get the tourism, the people, and you can really do some great things with the hemp.. it is a multi billion dollar industry.

Also... something I just thought about... how would this go regarding other 'plants' DMT, Ayahuasca?

[blufire]

from Dennis above:

Your credibility, past accomplishments, and current accomplishments are not being attacked nor discounted. You simply made a wrong statement, and you made it as a declarative statement, not as an opinion

I have a lot of respect for you and want to converse on topics where I may have a disagreement with you - using logic, rhetoric (real meaning of the word), and verifiable facts to expound an idea or persuade, and not to see a "defense of self" substituted for a defense of the point(s) being argued.

Thank you much big brother . . . . I am very happy to have a logical and rhetorical discussion with you and from my stand point of being very knowledgeable in this topic. Although I will have to admit having rhetorical conversations are a bit more challenging for me . . . I’m a more ‘literal’ kind of gal.

This is the statement I made and that you highlighted and would like to discuss Marijuana/cannabis has been genetically modified for years. The pot consumed today is thoroughly GMO and every strain of cannabis in the ‘medical marijuana’ industry is genetically modified or altered in some way." Is not false and I absolutely know what I am talking about and for the following reasons.

I learned many years ago this following ‘rule of thumb’ from a mentor that I respected greatly . . . . . When something (we will use scientific advancement here) makes it to MSM or to the general population, that advancement has already been in the making for 20+/- years.

In this case it is medical marijuana. The legalization of marijuana and specifically medical marijuana exploded to the forefront just a few short years ago and is being fast tracked on calculated purpose. ‘They’ over the past 20+/- have already manufactured many strains of genetically modified pot, synthesized several different strains, created the legislation to legalize pot, identified where these strains will be grown (in this thread one of those places maybe Uruguay), identified and secured which pharmaceutical companies would make billions of dollars and implemented all other control factors surrounding this issue . . . . . exactly like they did with GMO food.

The general population will always and I mean always be 20+/- behind. I use this ‘rule of thumb’ constantly in my research and observation of what is taking place globally. I use certain personal ‘templates’ to project into the future to formulate a working idea of what I feel may be happening and use this to my advantage. (Sun Tzu’s The Art of War)

There is absolutely and I do mean absolutely no doubt in my mind that many several strains of cannabis have already been genetically modified and synthesized and tons of seeds (I do mean tons) are waiting to be sent to different places around the world (like Uruguay) to be mass produced . . . . just like when GMO grain seed hit the farming industry in the 90’s.

Remember that in the pharmaceutical world anything that grows naturally can not be patented, if it cannot be patented (exclusive rights or trademarked) they cannot make billions and billions of dollars. This is why a simple aspirin (willow bark/ salicylic acid) is so cheap or why heirloom or open-pollinated seed is so cheap

So cannabis and especially medical cannabis (many different types) has already been thoroughly synthesized, genetically altered and plants grown and seed (or cuttings) from these plants carefully harvested and waiting to be mass produced.

Another way I absolutely know this is the following:

When I was on my farm in Kansas around 2003 or 2004 I received a huge packet sent certified mail from the USDA (scared the crap out of me). The packet contained 40 pages (?) stating that I had already been preliminarily selected for a ‘pilot program’ to grow marijuana for the USDA. Both my husband and I already had a background search conducted by them (no felonies or any legal), our financials/taxes had been searched and fit a certain demographic (my husband was a senior vice president for Morgan Stanley/income in high 6 figures) my background as a grower/ farmer and organics or ‘specialized’ growing was desirable, the location of our main farm and other factors made us candidates for this pilot program. Remember I lived smack in the middle of Monsanto Land along with several other massive biotechnology corporations.

In this packet it stated that if I made the decision to be involved in this ‘pilot program’ and signed a very convoluted contract, I would be provided with everything to grow certain strains of cannabis, which included fully secured and highly technological greenhouses and that I would be compensated well.

I very carefully but very soundly declined. I still have that packet and is packed away in a box somewhere from my move to Virginia . . . along with several samples of chemtrail ‘dust’ and other fun stuff that could probably get me in deep trouble.

I know that cannabis is already thoroughly genetically modified because the genetics (dna) have been entirely sequenced. The only reason ‘they’ would sequence the genetic structure of cannabis is to then genetically alter and synthesize and patent their new creations.

I know that cannabis has already been genetically altered because the pot grown today in no way shape or form resembles heirloom/standard cannabis . . . not in appearance or chemical constituency. Pot today is grown from cuttings or seed that has been insanely hybridized. When 5 seeds cost upward to $50 . . . well lets just say that ain’t normal. Mine are free and come from a plant I first grew about 30 years ago and have been collecting seed all these years from each growth.

Keep in mind how genetically altered seed is produced. I don’t really want to go into this because it will go over most people’s heads. Let’s just say the seed that is ultimately used to grow the ‘final product’ is first grown from the biologically altered plant and then the seed harvested from that plant is what is used to grow the final product. I have no doubt that many strains of genetically altered seed for the final pot product is already currently stored and waiting to be distributed and there is tons of it . . . just like when the GMO grain seed hit the farmlands on a massive scale.

My predictions (for medical marijuana) based on past research, templates and experience of the very calculated implementation of GMO food:

• the legalization of cannabis medical or otherwise is going to be fast tracked at a dizzying speed
• the general population will be allowed to grow their own limited amount of pot to give a semblance of personal control and naïve sense of ‘we the little people beat them’.
• The medical world will use a plethora of ‘medicines’ that contain the genetically altered and synthesized chemical constituents in numerous ways just like statins, pain killers and medicine for depression and mental problems.
• Obamacare will push the use of these drugs and especially for mental illness and pain management
• The biotechnological companies will make gazillions of dollars and so will savvy small time growers.
• Certain countries like Uruguay will grow specific types of the genetically altered cannabis . . . this will keep the different strains from cross contaminating (keep them pure) and equalize the playing field for those countries on a global scale
• At first there will be a plethora of different types of pot and then will be narrowed down to a select few, probably over 10 to 15 years.
• These eventual select few will be promoted at different times according to how “they’ need to population to be herded toward the NWO
• The masses will categorically and systematically accept this gmo pot just as they have gmo food.

In my not so humble opinion regarding this topic, the legalization and fast track implementation of gmo cannabis is ultimately and simply a tool to be used by ‘them’ to sedate and manipulate the masses into accepting the NWO.

It is a tool.

If anything else simply Google the phrase “Is cannabis genetically modified” and see from a lay person’s point of view the truth of gmo cannabis.

So Dennis I am really sorry and I feel like a bearer of negative horrible truth around Avalon. There is illusion and there is truth and they make it VERY easy to accept the illusion and incredibly difficult (and lonely) to speak and stand by the truth.

You suggested strongly I am responsible for creating a false meme on this topic. So I hope that this post will clarify my stance a bit more and that you see the only false meme that is being created is the meme that was created and implemented by ‘them’ about 20 or so years ago.

Time will tell if I’m full of s**t . . . . but while we are waiting for that time to pass I would just ask everyone to stay on your guard and do not accept ANYTHING at face value. Question everything and often and find your own personal templates to run everything through. Sift through all the chaff to find the wheat (seed of truth)

Just like food . . .if you want to make sure you know what you are smoking or consuming . . . grow your freaking own.

[RMorgan]

Hey Blufire,

I don't agree with you.

If, even while being illegal for decades, no government could stop users from developing hundreds of different kinds of strains through cross-pollination, making it legal will make it impossible to control the independent experimentation and cultivation of weed.

How would you think the governments would be able to control which strains are being planted or not...It's impossible. Both the plant itself and the users are too diversified.

Even soy, which is incomparably less diversified than cannabis, is still being planted in its original organic form all around the world, despite the constant attempts of monopolization by GMO industries.

Let alone the fact that the marijuana industry is pretty much like the wine industry nowadays; It's not a commodity like soy. People like to plant and taste different strains as a hobby.

I'm not even sure if they will ever make transgenic marijuana, mostly because there's no reason for it. It's a strong plant that's rarely affected by plagues; Planting marijuana, even in large scale, doesn't require the use of pesticides.

We're talking about a market that's totally out of control here. This is the main reason they're making it legal in the first place, because if you can't control it, the best thing you can do is to regulate it.

Raf.

PS: GMO is a general term which isn't positive or negative...I guess you're mostly talking about Transgenics, which is when they mix genes from different species, like Monsanto does.

GMOs are pretty much natural; Nature produces them on its own. Transgenics, on the other hand, isn't natural and can be very dangerous.

[TargeT]

Wow Raf . . . you usually make really educated posts but I will have to call this post of yours absolute . . . . :bs:

Just saying . . . . .

so far I'd say perhaps you are projecting on Raf what you should be owning in your self.



Marijuana/cannabis has been genetically modified for years. The pot consumed today is thoroughly GMO and every strain of cannabis in the ‘medical marijuana’ industry is genetically modified or altered in some way.


This seems a bit ridiculous, I've been involved with the cultivation of cannabis for years.... since every single crossing produces a new plant, I don't see how your statements can carry any validity whatsoever, this is a unique plant that can quickly be changed at every breeding THAT is why we have the strains we have today.

My experience only stretches back 20 years, and specifically with this plant; while I don't get to enjoy the substance very often, I find the plant itself fascinating.

I've pioneered cloning, changing the way its done with cannabis to a zero failure "fool proof" method (I'm sure it would work for other plants as well) even my "hobby" grows were phenomenal from the techniques I practiced on this awesome plant. I haven't grown in dirt for years, and was heavily involved in the Humbolt county (lots of movies made about this area) growing community where hydroponics was a focus of a niche group of highly intelligent people.

I think my draw to this was that leading a double life was exciting, I put on my mask persona to go to a federal job during the day time and hung out with exactly the type of people everyone at my work would instantly judge as "scum". I guess this started in middle school, where I was the green haired skater punk in honor AP classes with strait A's..

granted, all of that doesn't mean what I say is true, but I assure you if you do a little research you'll find that this plant would be impossible to "GMO" as the first cross breeding would produce a completely new strain (IN EVERY SEED!) with no guarantee of characteristics passed on beyond the two major families (Indica and Sativa) influence.

AS for the original post... I'd say "the writing is on the wall" and good PR never hurts... Soros/rockefeller giving a few mil. away to a cause like this does nothing but help him with the landslide that will be hitting the planet soon, this plant's time in prohibitory status is almost at it's end.

[Dennis Leahy]

There is absolutely and I do mean absolutely no doubt in my mind that many several strains of cannabis have already been genetically modified and synthesized and tons of seeds (I do mean tons) are waiting to be sent to different places around the world (like Uruguay) to be mass produced . . . . just like when GMO grain seed hit the farming industry in the 90’s. This is conjecture, period. It's not only conjecture, but conjecture that is likely wrong. Why? Cannabis is outrageously, extremely, unstable genetically - nothing whatsoever like the genetic stability of soybeans. A farmer can save and replant soybeans year after year, from different plants, and the soybeans will be extremely similar in their biochemistry year after year. With cannabis, the amount of THC (for example) has been known to double (increase by 100%) in one generation. Moreover, every plant's genetics are different, so the most seeds that could be bagged and sold with a known parentage would be the amount of seeds that a single plant produces*, and even those seeds would have far more variety than any commercial food crop seed. Think of a blue-eyed human mating with a green-eyed human: what color would each offspring's eyes be? (Without going too far into dominant and recessive genes, the answer is "random", but with some statistical odds.)

*("clones"/plants from cuttings of the same plant, have the same parentage, and would have the same statistical odds as the parent plant of characteristics distribution within the seeds of that plant)

It would be very naive to assume that Monstersanto and their miscreant mad scientist cousins are not trying to tap this market. If they do it, it would be by inserting some foreign species' gene as a marker, something that the plants own attribute/propensity to naturally modify its own genetics could not touch. According to a watchdog site looking for GMO to creep into cannabis, no GMO cannabis/hemp has yet been achieved (as of the article's 2011 date of publication.)

To reiterate what TargeT (an expert) and the literature is telling us, growers cannot count on seeds to produce the same biochemical compounds at the same ratios. That is why growers do not use seeds - they use cuttings/clones from known plants with known characteristics. It is feasible to think of hemp (cannabis with extremely low THC - grown for fiber or oil or for food seeds) as being a more likely target for the bastards to genetically modify - because they don't need to worry about cannabinoids, only fiber and seed production. Ironically (and it gives me a chuckle), the legislation forcing tested quantities of THC to be extremely low (3/10ths of a percent) may be the undoing of any normal attempt to genetically modify cannabis and then guarantee that it won't "go rogue" and some plants start producing more THC than is allowed.

Growers (using hybridization) produced the varieties of medicinal and recreational cannabis available, not biotech companies. You simply cannot "declare" cannabis to be "all GMO" because of a sneaking suspician or because you believe tech firms are 20 years "ahead" of what is in the fields.

Dennis

[blufire]

Conjecture or speculation? Absolutely and others commenting on this thread is doing the same as well, including yourself, Raf and Target. Our challenge (or should be imo) to form the most calculated and knowledgeable and workable theories/conjectures as possible.

I don’t think the mods would appreciate if I go into a full explanation of how I grow marijuana, but let me throw out a few things.

There is a huge difference in the cannabis I grow and what TargeT is speaking of. Most hobby or ‘underground’ growers (like Target’s hydroponic friends) are delving into extreme hybridization. It is absolutely true that when working with hybridization you are never quite sure of the final product. BUT when you do manage to find the 2 parent plants to consistently cross pollinate then ding ding ding you have a winner! In the current cannabis growing world many are trying to create that better, more potent, unique product. . . . .big big bucks in this industry. Hell, when you can get $10, $20, $30 per seed why not! Go for it!

The main problem (and I being very basic here) the extreme hybridization growers have is cannabis plants are either male or female. The female plants are the plants that produce the ‘chemical desired’ as well as the seed for your next generation of plants. So to repeat the same chemical constituent in the next generation of plants (if hybridizing) you have to have the exact same male plant to pollinate the exact same female plant, which is almost next to impossible like you, Target and Raf have said. The male plants are only the pollinators of the female plants and these male plants are what are used as ‘hemp products’ . . . they make great rope among other things!

I want to be clear (for the nongrowers) that hybrid cannabis is NOT gmo. Hybridizing plants (cross pollinating ) has been going on for thousands of years. If you plant the seed from a plant that is hybridized the fruit that plant grows will be recessed back to one or the other ‘parent plants’.

An example would be ‘bi-colored sweet corn’ like Peaches and Cream sweet corn . . . it has both yellow and white kernels. To create your own ‘bi-colored corn’ (and I know because I have done it) you have to grow an all yellow kernelled sweet corn (like Candy Corn) and all white kernelled sweet corn (like Silver Queen) and make sure the pollen from these two varieties ‘intermingle’ or ‘cross-pollinate’ you harvest the seed from these cross-pollinated plants and plant that seed next year and you will have bi-colored sweet corn BUT if you use the seed from the bi-colored (hybridized) sweet corn and plant it the next year that plant and corn will revert back to one of the ‘parent plants’ you would have either all white corn or all yellow corn and more often than not, seed planted from a hybridized plant won’t produce fruit at all.

So trying to do this (hybridizing) with cannabis is VERY difficult because of the additional challenge that cannabis is either strictly female or male.

For me as a medicinal herbalist and an organic grower and concentrating on being self sustaining I have only heirloom or standard cannabis plants . . . . and I have used this seed 25 or 30 years. I started with seed from the bottom of a friend’s baggie of pot that he really liked. I only grow it (as with all my medicinal herbs) from time to time now to keep good fresh seed for when I may need this type of medicinal plant in the future.

The additional challenge with cannabis is since the chemicals desired is only in the female plants is trying to determine which plants are female BEFORE the plants ‘go to seed’. When a female plant matures to the point it ‘bolts’ or produces seed the chemical constituency is very weak in the plant. To smoke pot from a female plant that has ‘gone to seed’ may not produce the ‘desired results’ and so the trick is knowing or be able to determine which plants you are growing are female and harvesting those plants before they ‘go to seed’ to obtain the best ‘medicinal quality’ . . . . then you let a select few females ‘go to seed’ and harvest that seed for your next crop. Over the years I have become very in-tuned to the growing characteristics of my female plants, as well as, being a medicinal herbalist I do have certain lab equipment for quality control in preparing my herbal remedies.

So what has all this have to do with my comment on GMO cannabis and the main topic of this thread which is why would Rockefeller and Soros and the like be involved in cannabis?

It is very simple . . . . . the very fact that cannabis and especially high quality medicinal cannabis IS so difficult to grow IS the very reason there is no doubt in my mind that cannabis is already fully genetically modified.

It is fact that ‘they’ have already (many years ago) sequenced the genetic structure of cannabis . . . the ONLY reason this would be done IS for genetic modification.

The fact that one can purchase seed that is guaranteed to be female seed that will produce ONLY female plants of a certain chemical constituency tells me that without a doubt that is a genetically modified seed.

The fact that Rockefeller and Soros and the like are involved means (calculated conjecture and speculation here) that they are poised to mass produce cannabis and the only way consistently uniform cannabis can be grown and for it to constantly and uniformly produce the “desired chemical” is for that cannabis to be thoroughly GMO or genetically sequenced and modified.

And there is no doubt in my mind that this genetically modified seed has already been grown (I was approached to be one of those growers) and is carefully stored waiting to be planted in fields . . . . like the fields of Uruguay.

[TargeT]

The main problem (and I being very basic here) the extreme hybridization growers have is cannabis plants are either male or female.
I'll stop you right there, one of the techniques we worked on heavily was the (for lack of a better term) hermaphroditation of plants,, there are ways (which I won't elaborate since this is questionable ground with the rules) to cause a plant to produce only female seeds, no more crap shoots, no more waiting to see the sex of the plant, guaranteed female. (and even this trait doesn't breed true, if you pollinate one of these hermy plants F2 (after the first generation) you are not guaranteed to get a seed that grows a plant that does the same thing)



The female plants are the plants that produce the ‘chemical desired’ as well as the seed for your next generation of plants. So to repeat the same chemical constituent in the next generation of plants (if hybridizing) you have to have the exact same male plant to pollinate the exact same female plant, which is almost next to impossible like you, Target and Raf have said. The male plants are only the pollinators of the female plants and these male plants are what are used as ‘hemp products’ . . . they make great rope among other things!

couple of clarifications, both male and female plants can be used for "hemp products" they both have the same fibrous stalks and oils.. the female plant simply has the "flowers" (buds, female sex organs, call them what you will) which produce trichomes (http://www.cannabisculture.com/content/inside-trichome) (from my testing I surmise that this is a protective and pollen collection measure, I am able to stress plants to increase the production of trichomes.. but that is sort of off topic i guess).

I will admit that I never knew for sure that I was growing a pure indica or sativa plant, I prefered a hybrid that was a 30-70 or 40-60 mix (pure guesses, see the problem with each seed being a different strain).

I'm quite sure however that even if you cross the same plant to the same plant (more than once), the seeds will not be consistent, they will each be individual plants with different characteristics.




So trying to do this (hybridizing) with cannabis is VERY difficult because of the additional challenge that cannabis is either strictly female or male.

I don't understand the difficulty? if I take a short, fat, heavy producing indica plant and cross it with a talk, lanky light producing sativa, I clearly get hybrid seeds... this happened every time I tried it. Perhaps your version of hybrid and mine are a bit different.. but from my understanding of the word, its as simple as that.



For me as a medicinal herbalist and an organic grower and concentrating on being self sustaining I have only heirloom or standard cannabis plants . . . . and I have used this seed 25 or 30 years. I started with seed from the bottom of a friend’s baggie of pot that he really liked. I only grow it (as with all my medicinal herbs) from time to time now to keep good fresh seed for when I may need this type of medicinal plant in the future.

The additional challenge with cannabis is since the chemicals desired is only in the female plants is trying to determine which plants are female BEFORE the plants ‘go to seed’. When a female plant matures to the point it ‘bolts’ or produces seed the chemical constituency is very weak in the plant. To smoke pot from a female plant that has ‘gone to seed’ may not produce the ‘desired results’ and so the trick is knowing or be able to determine which plants you are growing are female and harvesting those plants before they ‘go to seed’ to obtain the best ‘medicinal quality’ . . . . then you let a select few females ‘go to seed’ and harvest that seed for your next crop. Over the years I have become very in-tuned to the growing characteristics of my female plants, as well as, being a medicinal herbalist I do have certain lab equipment for quality control in preparing my herbal remedies.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. if there are no male plants present, there are no seeds (excluding the Hermy plants I spoke of before, those can self pollinate from time to time, but it's generally rare). I never paid attention to WHEN I pollinated for seeds (I usually used a small paint brush and one of the many bags of pollen I had collected from "desirable doaners") but the trichomes were always present and I'd often harvest half the plant or more before pollinating to get a few seeds, no drop in chimical constituency at all... (and its very easy to tell which plant is female and which is male FAR before the males produce their pollen sacs and the females start to bud)



So what has all this have to do with my comment on GMO cannabis and the main topic of this thread which is why would Rockefeller and Soros and the like be involved in cannabis?

It is very simple . . . . . the very fact that cannabis and especially high quality medicinal cannabis IS so difficult to grow IS the very reason there is no doubt in my mind that cannabis is already fully genetically modified.

But... It's not difficult to grow? not at all?



It is fact that ‘they’ have already (many years ago) sequenced the genetic structure of cannabis . . . the ONLY reason this would be done IS for genetic modification. but that was for one plant only,, a plant today will have different markers, you would have to do this over and over and over to understand which marker does what... one sequencing is not enough.


The fact that one can purchase seed that is guaranteed to be female seed that will produce ONLY female plants of a certain chemical constituency tells me that without a doubt that is a genetically modified seed. I've been doing this for years, it involves stressing the plant, THAT'S IT.. I can do it pretty reliably to any plant I want to.. with a high success rate.. I never "GMO'd" them.. I wouldn't even know how to.



The fact that Rockefeller and Soros and the like are involved means (calculated conjecture and speculation here) that they are poised to mass produce cannabis and the only way consistently uniform cannabis can be grown and for it to constantly and uniformly produce the “desired chemical” is for that cannabis to be thoroughly GMO or genetically sequenced and modified.

And there is no doubt in my mind that this genetically modified seed has already been grown (I was approached to be one of those growers) and is carefully stored waiting to be planted in fields . . . . like the fields of Uruguay.

I think you saw some stuff that had been worked on in indoor grows for years (the feminized hermy plants specifically) and assumed (which I can completely understand) that this was done via some sort of science or GMO; since the core of your assumption is wrong; please revisit your understanding.

[blufire]

I’ll ask one quick question.

TargeT it is obvious you have a lot of experience in intensive growing hybridized cannabis in a highly controlled environment.

I have intensive growing experience with standard heirloom cannabis in field conditions

There is obvious huge extreme differences in the 2 growing methods.

In your experience and knowledge with purely hybridized cannabis is it possible to recreate these same plants and product in a mass production situation? I’m speaking on a scale of thousands of acres and out in fields where the plants will be exposed to varying weather conditions, weeds and pests?

I couldn’t . . . . not thousands of acres in one growing season . . . no more than I could grow thousands of acres of corn or soy beans without genetic modification.

. . . . and I am a master grower/farmer with 30+ years of experience.

[TargeT]

I’ll ask one quick question.

TargeT it is obvious you have a lot of experience in intensive growing hybridized cannabis in a highly controlled environment.

I have intensive growing experience with standard heirloom cannabis in field conditions

There is obvious huge extreme differences in the 2 growing methods.

In your experience and knowledge with purely hybridized cannabis is it possible to recreate these same plants and product in a mass production situation? I’m speaking on a scale of thousands of acres and out in fields where the plants will be exposed to varying weather conditions, weeds and pests?

I couldn't . . . . not thousands of acres in one growing season . . . no more than I could grow thousands of acres of corn or soy beans without genetic modification.

. . . . and I am a master grower/farmer with 30+ years of experience.

anything is technically possible, but growing outside introduces far too many variables, all of my grows were indoors, controlled light, air, temperature, nutrients, water PH & PPM levels.. there's not a single thing I didn't have at least some form of control over or influence on.. our growing methods are not comparable at all.

now with that in mind, your idea of mass production and mine may differ quite a bit also; I see mass production as a ware house, you see acres of land.

when you say "these same plants" what do you mean exactly? the feminized plants? the F1 seeds will ALL be feminized, so I could produce hundreds of thousands of seeds from a controlled environment and plant them out doors, that could be one way of doing it; something similar to how Monsanto produces it's terminator seeds, then sends them out to farmers so they can grow 1 crop that won't produce seeds again. or massive clone production, that would provide a very consistent (and really the only true way to be consistent) outcome.


Could I grow plants outside like I do indoors? no; but there are some pretty good techniques for out doors, it's basically impossible to reproduce the power and light spectrum of the sun (lighting was one of my favorite things to experiment with, and the key to a lot of growing tech.s) out door bubble buckets ( or you could do water rails) with supplemental lighting (to push the light cycle to 18/6) could do some amazing things; but I prefer to control the temp (and most importantly, humidity) for the best results.

I'm not quite sure what your are asking on the out doors question, are you talking about plant density (ie plants per square foot)? plant characteristics? large scale out door grows are very successful (but too risky IMO).

[Dennis Leahy]

I couldn’t . . . . not thousands of acres in one growing season . . . no more than I could grow thousands of acres of corn or soy beans without genetic modification.

. . . . and I am a master grower/farmer with 30+ years of experience.

Agriculture (in some form) has been going on for 10,000 years. Greed-driven opportunists have been genetically modifying corn, soy, beets, alfalfa, etc for less than 30 years. I grew up in Ohio and visited relatives in Nebraska. Between my home state and in my travels, I saw hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of acres of corn, wheat, beans...later soy beans. ALL of those thousands of acres of food were non-GMO, because GMO had not been "invented" by the Dark Ones that want to control all food. There was no boost of ANY sort when GMO seeds were developed and sold. No boost in nutrition, no boost in drought-resistance, no boost in wilt resistance... only a boost in profits for the Dark Forces.

YOU may have convinced yourself that thousands of acres of crops cannot be grown without GMO, but it has already been done, for decades and decades. That is not conjecture. It has been done. There was enough to feed all the people domestically, all the cattle and pigs and fowl, and giant ships full of NON-GMO crops grown in the US were shipped around the world. Do you remember this? Do you know this is true? GMOs provide no benefits to society at all, only to the Dark Ones.

[gripreaper]

I couldn’t . . . . not thousands of acres in one growing season . . . no more than I could grow thousands of acres of corn or soy beans without genetic modification. . . . . and I am a master grower/farmer with 30+ years of experience.

Agriculture (in some form) has been going on for 10,000 years. I grew up in Ohio and visited relatives in Nebraska. Between my home state and in my travels, I saw hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of acres of corn, wheat, beans...later soy beans. ALL of those thousands of acres of food were non-GMO, because GMO had not been "invented" by the Dark Ones that want to control all food.

And there's plenty of water and plenty of agricultural land too, but for the machinations of the dark forces who want to exterminate us by introducing toxins into the environment via GMO's. See my post here on the reduce population thread.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65793-How-to-reduce-the-human-population&p=774212#post774212

[jackovesk]

haven't read all the posts, but just wanted to get my two cents in!

They want in on the ground floor, this is something new, outside of their control, and they want to start collecting and analyzing the data from day one, that is how these people operate, they want to figure out the politics, economics and social interpretation before anyone else...

Another thing I heard the legalization isn't the way to go, it should be decriminalization. Legalization implies government licensing, control manipulation, and that is where these Skanker Kings could have a huge influence, they could try to come in there, finance everything and take control.

KEEP IT SIMPLE ... YOU KNOW THESE GUYS CAN'T BE TRUSTED... THEY ONLY HAVE ONE INTEREST... CONTROL...

If I was Mujica, I'd have 24 hour surveillance on those guys and tell them to take their filthy blood money and get the hell out of my damned country.

:bump:.....

[blufire]

I couldn’t . . . . not thousands of acres in one growing season . . . no more than I could grow thousands of acres of corn or soy beans without genetic modification.

. . . . and I am a master grower/farmer with 30+ years of experience.

Agriculture (in some form) has been going on for 10,000 years. Greed-driven opportunists have been genetically modifying corn, soy, beets, alfalfa, etc for less than 30 years. I grew up in Ohio and visited relatives in Nebraska. Between my home state and in my travels, I saw hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of acres of corn, wheat, beans...later soy beans. ALL of those thousands of acres of food were non-GMO, because GMO had not been "invented" by the Dark Ones that want to control all food. There was no boost of ANY sort when GMO seeds were developed and sold. No boost in nutrition, no boost in drought-resistance, no boost in wilt resistance... only a boost in profits for the Dark Forces.

YOU may have convinced yourself that thousands of acres of crops cannot be grown without GMO, but it has already been done, for decades and decades. That is not conjecture. It has been done. There was enough to feed all the people domestically, all the cattle and pigs and fowl, and giant ships full of NON-GMO crops grown in the US were shipped around the world. Do you remember this? Do you know this is true? GMOs provide no benefits to society at all, only to the Dark Ones.


Okay . . . .I guess I have to just keep trying to refute misinformation or just give up . . . . Call the dogs and piss on the fire (difficult for a woman)

Dennis you and I are about the same age (I’m 54) and so we would remember and have experienced the same events, even though, I can surmise that me growing up in Appalachia and then living the last 25 years in Kansas and your growing up and past would differ and allow us to contribute different perspectives on those same events and history.

You speak of those 1,000 of acres of corn, soy beans and wheat when you were young and your insistence they were not GMO or genetically engineered.
. . . .well you would be categorically wrong my friend, because they were. Genetic engineering began in the early 70’s and all those fields you saw as a child were already being treated with pre-emergent and post-emergent herbicides. ALL the different seed companies created their own compatible seed/chemicals combinations. At that time and into the late 80’s farmers had to buy that specific combination of seed and chemicals that would take each crop into harvest.
From the mid 80’s and moving forward came the extreme engineering of crops and farming methods or the GMO and massive biotechnology we have today.

I have posted this several times before on PA and I guess I just keep posting. It is categorically and simply IMPOSSIBLE for a farmer to farm by the old method (plowing, harrowing, planting, cultivating (min of 2 during growing), and harvesting over 200 acres. There are ‘windows’ of time that seed have to be planted . . . too early it won’t germinate or rot in the ground, too late in burns up in the sun and heat. The growing season is limited to a few months of the year. Harvest has to happen before the winter and snow sets in.

There is literally not enough time in the day, days in the month or months in the growing season to grow more than 200 +/- acres in the ‘old way’. I KNOW this personally because I farmed 30 acres in Kansas in the ‘old way’.

Think of the Amish and Mennonites . . . look at their farms and how many acres they farm . . . you won’t find any that are over 40-80 acres, individually. But, the Amish communities as a whole work together and help farm each others acreage and are very efficient.

I feel you and others almost desperately need me to be wrong on this . . . but I am not. I have lived it personally and worked closely for years with conventional farmers and understand thoroughly WHY they had no other option other than to convert to gmo farming. But there are farmers (like me) who will never convert to chemical farming and will always teach the old ways of farming and homesteading.

We have to have both. I see this now. Do I like it? No. But neither do I like the idea of people starving by the tens of thousands as we saw until chemical farming.
Do YOU remember this Dennis . . . . in the 60’s and through the 70’s? All the thousands that died in the 3rd world countries and even the 1st world countries on a daily basis?

But I guess you or Grip will say that too was false information put out by the Evil Dark Ones. . . . .

[blufire]

haven't read all the posts, but just wanted to get my two cents in!

They want in on the ground floor, this is something new, outside of their control, and they want to start collecting and analyzing the data from day one, that is how these people operate, they want to figure out the politics, economics and social interpretation before anyone else...

Another thing I heard the legalization isn't the way to go, it should be decriminalization. Legalization implies government licensing, control manipulation, and that is where these Skanker Kings could have a huge influence, they could try to come in there, finance everything and take control.

KEEP IT SIMPLE ... YOU KNOW THESE GUYS CAN'T BE TRUSTED... THEY ONLY HAVE ONE INTEREST... CONTROL...

If I was Mujica, I'd have 24 hour surveillance on those guys and tell them to take their filthy blood money and get the hell out of my damned country.

:bump:.....


My twist on this is ‘They’ are the ones that have been orchestrating the whole thing from day one and many years ago

They are simply implementing the next phase . . . . to the NWO.

This (legalization and mass producing cannabis) is simply a ‘tool’.

Mujica seems to be a very smart cookie. My guess is he knows this (the nwo implementation) and is using it to his and his country’s advantage. He knows it won’t and can’t be stopped but he can certainly set certain ground rules and grab this opportunity. Why not his country? “They’ would simply go somewhere else and then destroy his country.

We could learn from this leader. Watch carefully. Understand. Choose. Adapt. Calculate strategy. Use whatever you can to your advantage.

[TargeT]

It is categorically and simply IMPOSSIBLE for a farmer to farm by the old method (plowing, harrowing, planting, cultivating (min of 2 during growing), and harvesting over 200 acres. There are ‘windows’ of time that seed have to be planted . . . too early it won’t germinate or rot in the ground, too late in burns up in the sun and heat. The growing season is limited to a few months of the year. Harvest has to happen before the winter and snow sets in.

There is literally not enough time in the day, days in the month or months in the growing season to grow more than 200 +/- acres in the ‘old way’. I KNOW this personally because I farmed 30 acres in Kansas in the ‘old way’.

ahh, ok I see what you were saying, I have no clue if the plant could be grown like that; that's far out side of my realm of experience.. it IS a "weed" and competes very well with other plants (no herbicides needed really) but it is vulnerable to pests (spider mites are the ones I hate most...) I'm not sure how this would play in out side.

is it currently being grown in 100+ acre lots? I don't know, maybe in Canada?

[blufire]

It is categorically and simply IMPOSSIBLE for a farmer to farm by the old method (plowing, harrowing, planting, cultivating (min of 2 during growing), and harvesting over 200 acres. There are ‘windows’ of time that seed have to be planted . . . too early it won’t germinate or rot in the ground, too late in burns up in the sun and heat. The growing season is limited to a few months of the year. Harvest has to happen before the winter and snow sets in.

There is literally not enough time in the day, days in the month or months in the growing season to grow more than 200 +/- acres in the ‘old way’. I KNOW this personally because I farmed 30 acres in Kansas in the ‘old way’.

ahh, ok I see what you were saying, I have no clue if the plant could be grown like that; that's far out side of my realm of experience.. it IS a "weed" and competes very well with other plants (no herbicides needed really) but it is vulnerable to pests (spider mites are the ones I hate most...) I'm not sure how this would play in out side.

is it currently being grown in 100+ acre lots? I don't know, maybe in Canada?


Oh thank, you thank, you thank you TargeT. . . . finally somebody is starting to get it!

There are no doubt in my mind there are test fields in several locations throughout the world growing cannabis that will eventually be grown on a commercial and mass scale. The genetics of this cannabis is being tweaked with each generation of growing.

Every aspect of cannabis is being bioengineered from the chemical/medical properties to how it is grown and processed into the final product.

These ‘test fields’ have been planted with seed that is bioengineered in the ‘special greenhouses’, like I was approached to do.

Again the fact Rockefeller and Soros and other ‘big wigs’ being involved is a clincher and no brainer that this is what is occurring. Remember in order for them to make the trillions of dollars cannabis has to be either synthesized or genetically altered to be able to patent the seed, growing process and final product.

Remember . . . no one can patent or have exclusive rights on a plant that grows naturally.

I hope MANY small and specialized growers (like your friends TargeT) see this opportunity and capitalize on it. Just like the small organic farmers, there will be a huge demand and need for cannabis that has not been genetically bioengineered.

Big HINT here folks . . . . .

[ThePythonicCow]

You speak of those 1,000 of acres of corn, soy beans and wheat when you were young and your insistence they were not GMO or genetically engineered.
. . . .well you would be categorically wrong my friend, because they were. Genetic engineering began in the early 70’s and all those fields you saw as a child were already being treated with pre-emergent and post-emergent herbicides. ALL the different seed companies created their own compatible seed/chemicals combinations. At that time and into the late 80’s farmers had to buy that specific combination of seed and chemicals that would take each crop into harvest.
From the mid 80’s and moving forward came the extreme engineering of crops and farming methods or the GMO and massive biotechnology we have today.

I have posted this several times before on PA and I guess I just keep posting. It is categorically and simply IMPOSSIBLE for a farmer to farm by the old method (plowing, harrowing, planting, cultivating (min of 2 during growing), and harvesting over 200 acres. There are ‘windows’ of time that seed have to be planted . . . too early it won’t germinate or rot in the ground, too late in burns up in the sun and heat. The growing season is limited to a few months of the year. Harvest has to happen before the winter and snow sets in.

There is literally not enough time in the day, days in the month or months in the growing season to grow more than 200 +/- acres in the ‘old way’. I KNOW this personally because I farmed 30 acres in Kansas in the ‘old way’.

Perhaps not enough hours in the day for one man (or woman) to do it ... that's why they had hired hands and tractors (or several teams of horses, before then.)

My dad was such a hired hand, in the late 1940's, after he returned from being on Guadalcanal in the South Pacific during World War II, and he took me on a trip around the US, including through the corn fields of Iowa, in the mid 1960's. Those corn fields stretched as far as the eye could see, which is quiet a ways in very flat Iowa and Kansas, if one happened to drive over a slight rise. One could literally hear the corn growing at night, and one could see bazillions of stars in the sky, when one had the good eyes of youth, back when the air was clear and the lights of civilization few.

With the advent of tractors in large number, after World War II, when American industry turned to domestic products, the size of the American farm grew steadily. The banks would lend money to consolidate small family farms into the giant agribusiness farms we have today.

http://www.fdic.gov/bank/analytical/banking/2005jan/images/02_fig07.gif
Observe that the average farm size had already exceeded 200 acres by 1950.

I also read in the history books that the farmers in the midwest (central US) exported enough food, at low enough prices, in the second half of the 1800's to put many a European farmer out of business, once the railroads and steam ships of the Robber Barons (http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinnbaron11.html) were up and running. Apparently American farming did to some European family farms in the late 1800's what Chinese manufacturing has now done to American industry in the late 1900's and early 2000's.

That you would base a rebuttal on the unstated and untrue assumption that farmers didn't have hired hands ... not a good sign.

[blufire]

You speak of those 1,000 of acres of corn, soy beans and wheat when you were young and your insistence they were not GMO or genetically engineered.
. . . .well you would be categorically wrong my friend, because they were. Genetic engineering began in the early 70’s and all those fields you saw as a child were already being treated with pre-emergent and post-emergent herbicides. ALL the different seed companies created their own compatible seed/chemicals combinations. At that time and into the late 80’s farmers had to buy that specific combination of seed and chemicals that would take each crop into harvest.
From the mid 80’s and moving forward came the extreme engineering of crops and farming methods or the GMO and massive biotechnology we have today.

I have posted this several times before on PA and I guess I just keep posting. It is categorically and simply IMPOSSIBLE for a farmer to farm by the old method (plowing, harrowing, planting, cultivating (min of 2 during growing), and harvesting over 200 acres. There are ‘windows’ of time that seed have to be planted . . . too early it won’t germinate or rot in the ground, too late in burns up in the sun and heat. The growing season is limited to a few months of the year. Harvest has to happen before the winter and snow sets in.

There is literally not enough time in the day, days in the month or months in the growing season to grow more than 200 +/- acres in the ‘old way’. I KNOW this personally because I farmed 30 acres in Kansas in the ‘old way’.

Perhaps not enough hours in the day for one man (or woman) to do it ... that's why they had hired hands and tractors (or several teams of horses, before then.)

My dad was such a hired hand, in the late 1940's, after he returned from being on Guadalcanal in the South Pacific during World War II, and he took me on a trip around the US, including through the corn fields of Iowa, in the mid 1960's. Those corn fields stretched as far as the eye could see, which is quiet a ways in very flat Iowa and Kansas, if one happened to drive over a slight rise. One could literally hear the corn growing at night, and one could see bazillions of stars in the sky, when one had the good eyes of youth, back when the air was clear and the lights of civilization few.

I also read in the history books that the farmers in the midwest (central US) exported enough food, at low enough prices, in the second half of the 1800's to put many a European farmer out of business, once the railroads and steam ships of the Robber Barons (http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinnbaron11.html) were up and running. Apparently American farming did to some European family farms in the late 1800's what Chinese manufacturing has now done to American industry in the late 1900's and early 2000's.

That you would base a rebuttal on the unstated and untrue assumption that farmers didn't have hired hands ... not a good sign.

Do you know how huge 200 acres is and appears when you are standing on one edge of the field and looking across it? Let alone when there are farms ‘back to back’?

Of course I know that farmers had/have hired help way back then and today.

Back ‘then’ they were more often than not share croppers or paid slave wages if at all or they were family members. There is a reason why farming families were big families.

Today’s small farmers, like the farmers I knew in Kansas, can’t afford to hire help. There is no way to work it into the bottom line and still make any kind of profit.

I have no doubt that our export of grains has an effect in Europe. We have the largest (?) amount of farmable acreage within our total land mass compared to other countries. Our farmland in the Midwest is perfect for growing grains.

I believe our history also includes the Dust Bowl tragedy because of our over farming and poor soil management.

I had an average block of 80 acres where I did my organic/natural farming. If you stood at the front of my farm (at the road) and looked back over that 80 acres (about a half mile) you could not see the back edge of my property. When I had my 30 acres of tillable land planted it even looked larger.

And yes . . . . the stars are like a blanket of glitter . . . I wish everyone could see what I see every night the sky is cloudless here in Appalachia..

[gripreaper]

. But neither do I like the idea of people starving by the tens of thousands as we saw until chemical farming. Do YOU remember this Dennis . . . . in the 60’s and through the 70’s? All the thousands that died in the 3rd world countries and even the 1st world countries on a daily basis?

But I guess you or Grip will say that too was false information put out by the Evil Dark Ones. . . . .

Listen blufire, if you want to debate me directly that's fine, but please don't use passive aggressive innuendo attached to a response to Dennis. I can speak for myself and am willing to do so.

Yes, I remember the hunger back in the 70's, and I also remember the overpopulation agendas and "consciousness "meme" creating campaigns of Paul Ehrlich too back then. The entire world starvation agenda was engineered so that "Mon-satan" and their cronies could take over the smaller family farms and consolidate all land into the mega corporate conglomerates we see today.

Remember the farm claims lawsuits that went all the way to the US Supreme Court? Remember what they were about? Yea, never addressed this aspect in any other thread either. You can't cherry pick aspects of the total context of the time to fit your agenda blufire.

The starvation, the massive land grab, the introduction of chemical toxins, the overpopulation campaigns, the imperialism, and the sequestering of NAWAPA, the killing of Kennedy, corporatocracy, the loss of liberty... is all tied together.

How easily we forget history, even when it is only 50 years ago and we lived it!

[blufire]

. But neither do I like the idea of people starving by the tens of thousands as we saw until chemical farming. Do YOU remember this Dennis . . . . in the 60’s and through the 70’s? All the thousands that died in the 3rd world countries and even the 1st world countries on a daily basis?

But I guess you or Grip will say that too was false information put out by the Evil Dark Ones. . . . .

Listen blufire, if you want to debate me directly that's fine, but please don't use passive aggressive innuendo attached to a response to Dennis. I can speak for myself and am willing to do so.

Yes, I remember the hunger back in the 70's, and I also remember the overpopulation agendas and "consciousness "meme" creating campaigns of Paul Ehrlich too back then. The entire world starvation agenda was engineered so that "Mon-satan" and their cronies could take over the smaller family farms and consolidate all land into the mega corporate conglomerates we see today.

Remember the farm claims lawsuits that went all the way to the US Supreme Court? Remember what they were about? Yea, never addressed this aspect in any other thread either. You can't cherry pick aspects of the total context of the time to fit your agenda blufire.

The starvation, the massive land grab, the introduction of chemical toxins, the overpopulation campaigns, the imperialism, and the sequestering of NAWAPA, the killing of Kennedy, corporatocracy, the loss of liberty... is all tied together.

How easily we forget history, even when it is only 50 years ago and we lived it!

I sincerely apologize for appearing passive aggressive . . . not my intention.

I am just VERY frustrated that it seems I can’t explain myself fully or clearly. I get sidetracked very easily with peoples comments directed at me. I get exhausted with being (it feels) like a lone voice.

Look I understand what you are saying in your post . . .I truly truly do . . . and I agree with it, I agree with what Dennis and others say for the most part . . . .

My point is WHY they are doing it . . .WHY it is happening

I am not in the Dark Ones corner or at this point not even the Alternative World corner.

I am just sitting here in this beautiful mountain watching everything happen, trying to stay out of the way.

And what I see is the ramping up of the final implementation to bring about the New World Order or One World or United Planet, whatever the hell it will be called.

All of this is SO convoluted and multilayered that it keeps everyone polarized, chaotic, and at each others throats . . .and even on this forum

None of this ‘surface chaff’ matters Grip . . . none of it.

What matters is what we are facing as a global humanity in the next 25 +/- years and the final outcome.

YES WE LIVED IT these past 50+ years! . . . . but I REFUSE to keep living the world ‘they’ have created for us. I stepped out of that world a few years back and since then I am free of the INSANITY!

The constant intense anger, negativity, victim status, and complete voicing and complaining of hopelessness against “Them’ is utterly exhausting and frustrating.

Yes!!!! They are doing ALL these things! But we are not victims . . . we DO NOT have to lie down and just accept it and keep living it over and over and over.

My future is clear and peaceful and I am trying my damnedest to make sure my family and those who are brought into my life have this same way of life and hope. If I have an agenda then THIS is it

We can CHOOSE and create that peace no matter what we choose.

[TargeT]

I get exhausted with being (it feels) like a lone voice.

haha, try backing the non-nuclear-fear campaign for a bit; it's just as fun ;)



My point is WHY they are doing it . . .WHY it is happening
.


I think some people on this thread were simply saying, in this specific instance, it doesn't appear that they ARE doing "it"; though your thoughts are logical given their pattern; there just doesn't seem to be any supporting evidence at all.

[blufire]

I get exhausted with being (it feels) like a lone voice.

haha, try backing the non-nuclear-fear campaign for a bit; it's just as fun ;)



My point is WHY they are doing it . . .WHY it is happening
.


I think some people on this thread were simply saying, in this specific instance, it doesn't appear that they ARE doing "it"; though your thoughts are logical given their pattern; there just doesn't seem to be any supporting evidence at all.


Thanks TargeT, I an truly appreciate what you have said here.

And you are 100% correct, I have no ‘real’ proof, Although the packet of information from the USDA I have somewhere in a box would I suppose validate some of what I am saying.

Perhaps a bigger question or at least a different question is why do we just wait around to see what is going to happen instead of being proactive and taking an offensive postion instead of our generally defensive fear based one?

If we see a consistent pattern and we can project from this pattern, then wouldn’t this be wise or at least prudent?

The topic of this thread is Rockefellers and Soros’ etc possibly being deeply involved in cannabis production in Uruguay . . . . . and why

Well, I have stated clearly my opinion and it is based on past patterns that we can follow to a fairly solid conclusion which then almost always leads me to my own personal ‘next question’ which is does this particular event or pattern lead to the implementation and strategy of the NWO . . . . and for me it does

So then I extrapolate possible scenarios of how ‘they’ could use a genetically modified and enhanced chemical that already produces mind altering or at the least a very pacified state of being . . . .and that really causes me to sit up and take notice..

[seehas]

people that consume marijuana dont fall into most programming traps, thats the main reason why they will never make it a legal drug, the usage of thc stimulates different thinking at things and people start to question their reality.

something about that story is fishy :confused:

@bluefire iam far away from considering myself as a professional when it comes to growing, but im used to grow sativa, indica also medical strains and all i can say is hemp is very very simple to grow plant even for people like me :), just go to india, pakistan, marocco etc. and you find it in wildlife.

thats how good seedbanks create new potent strains they go for a strainhunt to this countrys.

[ThePythonicCow]

Do you know how huge 200 acres is and appears when you are standing on one edge of the field and looking across it? Let alone when there are farms ‘back to back’?Yes, I know. It's equivalent to a square of land, 0.56 miles or 0.9 km on a side. My dad was a hired hand on a 200 acre farm, before running his own 80 acre farm, which even back in the 1960's was too much work for one man, too poor to hire help. When I showed no interest in farming at age 10, preferring to read books, my Dad sold that farm, weary and older for the effort. We moved to a trailer parked on the side of a field of the larger farm, on the understanding that our dog, a wonderful half breed Border Collie, would hunt woodchucks on the larger fields for the "rent". The dog paid the rent for another 10 years.

And I know that farms that large existed (and indeed were "average" in size) back in the 1950's, before GMO seeds, and that they were tilled in part by hired hands.

I refuted your claim that "it is categorically and simply IMPOSSIBLE for a farmer to farm by the old method (plowing, harrowing, planting, cultivating (min of 2 during growing), and harvesting over 200 acres."

My refutation stands, notwithstanding your efforts to distract.

[gripreaper]

My point is WHY they are doing it . . .WHY it is happening

Its quite simple. To modify and terraform the planet into a totalitarian fascist, fully centralized and controlled system, to aggrandize the few alien interlopers who think they are gods and that this is their private playground to engineer into a new species of slaves to vampire, and to satiate their heartless and soulless hedonism through ritualistic blood sacrifices and conspicuous consumption of all energy.


All of this is SO convoluted and multilayered that it keeps everyone polarized, chaotic, and at each others throats . . .and even on this forum

I don't see it that way. Its not convoluted to me at all, but quite clear, concise, and succinct. We as a species need to recognize the thousands of years of incestuous interloping by the psychopathic murderous elite, expose them to the light of day for who they are, reject their mandates and their interdiction's, remove them from power, and send them to where the sun don't shine. They've done nothing but F'k things up since they got here. Their tenure is over.

This IS the path to unity consciousness and away from duality which we "think" we want. Embracing them as benevolent, necessary, and part of some divine plan or some "guardian council" or some "alien architecture" or any type of hierarchical power structure in the dimensions above 3d, to help humanity to evolve and change, is utter balderdash. This is what is distracting and keeps us from turning inward and recognizing the utter power we have to alter the matrix just with our thoughts.

We are NOT just mammalian and reptilian, but multifaceted immortal souls with 13 full DNA strands, an akashic history of thousands of lifetimes, unlimited potential and resources, and a collective dream held in the hologram of all creation to return to source as fully conscious and fully imbued with spirit in a body.

They want this to appear convoluted, the population agenda, the eugenics, the alleged 25 years ahead of devastation based on some extinction level event which is imminent and these sweet elite have prepared for and have done so at our behest because they want to save the genome and need to engineer things so that the planet can be utilized for restoration from high radiation survival post apocalypse. Geez!

In the Hegelian dialectic of synthesis for change towards an agenda, they always control both sides of the dialectic. That's what it means to polarize to the extremes of duality, to create divisiveness, wars, and engineered chaos. Its the oldest trick in the book and has worked a million times over the centuries. They don't even bother to do things covertly anymore, but blatantly and with arrogance flaunt it right out in public view nowadays.

We better get with it and wake up and get rid of these bastards, remove them from power, release free energy, implement initiatives like NAWAPA, and learn to think for ourselves, and be self responsible ADULTS!

[Dennis Leahy]

I couldn’t . . . . not thousands of acres in one growing season . . . no more than I could grow thousands of acres of corn or soy beans without genetic modification.

. . . . and I am a master grower/farmer with 30+ years of experience.

Agriculture (in some form) has been going on for 10,000 years. Greed-driven opportunists have been genetically modifying corn, soy, beets, alfalfa, etc for less than 30 years. I grew up in Ohio and visited relatives in Nebraska. Between my home state and in my travels, I saw hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of acres of corn, wheat, beans...later soy beans. ALL of those thousands of acres of food were non-GMO, because GMO had not been "invented" by the Dark Ones that want to control all food. There was no boost of ANY sort when GMO seeds were developed and sold. No boost in nutrition, no boost in drought-resistance, no boost in wilt resistance... only a boost in profits for the Dark Forces.

YOU may have convinced yourself that thousands of acres of crops cannot be grown without GMO, but it has already been done, for decades and decades. That is not conjecture. It has been done. There was enough to feed all the people domestically, all the cattle and pigs and fowl, and giant ships full of NON-GMO crops grown in the US were shipped around the world. Do you remember this? Do you know this is true? GMOs provide no benefits to society at all, only to the Dark Ones.


Okay . . . .I guess I have to just keep trying to refute misinformation or just give up . . . . Call the dogs and piss on the fire (difficult for a woman)

Dennis you and I are about the same age (I’m 54) and so we would remember and have experienced the same events, even though, I can surmise that me growing up in Appalachia and then living the last 25 years in Kansas and your growing up and past would differ and allow us to contribute different perspectives on those same events and history.

You speak of those 1,000 of acres of corn, soy beans and wheat when you were young and your insistence they were not GMO or genetically engineered.
. . . .well you would be categorically wrong my friend, because they were. ...

Blufire, you are redefining the term "GMO" to fit your needs. I'm not. I'm actually using the term correctly. Plants sprayed with poisons does not make GMO plants; it makes poison-covered (and infused) plants. If I take a strawberry and dip it in chocolate, it does not make it a GMO strawberry. If I take a strawberry and dip it in glyphosate ("Roundup" - the herbicide that is frequently the chemical for which plants are genetically engineered to withstand), it STILL does not make that strawberry a GMO strawberry.

The first crops in fields that made it to market and were consumed by humans (since the earlier tomato-fish never made it to market) were grown in 1995. All the crops grown for human and animal consumption prior to 1995 were non-GMO. All of them.

No, the thousands and thousands of acres that fed the USA and were exported worldwide that I grew up around in northwest Ohio (and the many Midwestern states I visited) were NOT GMO.

No, "Marijuana/cannabis has been genetically modified for years. The pot consumed today is thoroughly GMO and every strain of cannabis in the ‘medical marijuana’ industry is genetically modified" is not correct. Somehow you have confused GMO and hybridization or even the application of chemicals (such as "colchicine") or mechanization, or something. You need to stop and look up the definition of GMO. You have shown repeatedly that you are confused as to what GMO actually means.

Here is the absolute guarantee that cannabis is NOT genetically modified: Patents are public. Show me the patent. You can show me the patent for every other GMO plant, so just show me the patent for GMO cannabis. Then, tell me which of the thousands of strains of cannabis that one is, and who grows it (and admit that anyone who grows any of the other strains is not growing the GMO cannabis that you can prove IS patented. This is different than me arguing with a statement that you have made regarding being told by non-humans that GMO is good stuff, and necessary for human survival (I cannot argue with that - all I can do is believe it or not), but this is simple factual information where you are demonstrably incorrect.


I feel you and others almost desperately need me to be wrong on this . . . but I am not. I have lived it personally and worked closely for years with conventional farmers and understand thoroughly WHY they had no other option other than to convert to gmo farming. But there are farmers (like me) who will never convert to chemical farming and will always teach the old ways of farming and homesteading.

We have to have both. I see this now. Do I like it? No. But neither do I like the idea of people starving by the tens of thousands as we saw until chemical farming.
Do YOU remember this Dennis . . . . in the 60’s and through the 70’s? All the thousands that died in the 3rd world countries and even the 1st world countries on a daily basis?
You are wrong on this. You're confusing "conventional" farming (non-organic) and/or "mechanized"/green revolution farming with GMO farming. Whoever said thousands of acres could be farmed by one person? That is flying in from left-field. I have said, and say again, we not only do not "NEED" GMO plants for human survival, GMO plants were never even designed for human survival. They were designed by greedy bastards to sell seeds and herbicides. GMOs do NOT, and will not ever serve humanity; GMOs serve only the corporate overlords and their bankers.

The thousands and thousands of acres of non-GMO food grown in the USA prior to the take-over by MonSatan seeds were more than plenty to feed everyone in the USA and thousands of tons of non-GMO food were exported - and it could be done again, if we could arrest and convict the executives in the GMO mega-corporations, ban GMO seeds, and start growing real food again. Besides the fact that feeding the hungry is a logistics problem (and a low priority for the Elite) and not a production problem, feeding everyone in the world from crops grown in the USA is a very bad idea. What the citizens of the USA need to stop exporting is death and destruction and imperialism, and what the USA needs to export to help feed the hungry in the world is technology and know-how (http://rodaleinstitute.org/our-work/farming-systems-trial/), freely given. In fact, we owe it to the world.

If Soros and Rockefeller could simply buy or buy into Monstersanto and gain control of cannabis worldwide, they would have. Instead, they are buying into cannabis, worldwide, the way they can: loaning money to gutsy nations like Uruguay...and maybe cornering the market on All-Seeing Eye bongs.

[Dennis Leahy]

PS: GMO is a general term which isn't positive or negative...I guess you're mostly talking about Transgenics, which is when they mix genes from different specifies, like Monsanto does.

GMOs are pretty much natural; Nature produces them on its own. Transgenics, on the other hand, isn't natural and can be very dangerous.Hang on a second, we're mixing up terminology again.

GMO (Genetically Modified Organism) is a process that CANNOT be done by nature. "Transgenic" is a synonym for GMO. In the GMO/transgenic process, DNA is inserted from another species (such as a gene from fish being inserted into a tomato, or a soil bacterium (Bt) being inserted into corn.)

Hybridization is a natural process - done by nature - to further the natural genetic diversity, deal with the evolving climatic conditions, and toward species survival, or done by accident (wind, bees, etc), or done deliberately by humans in the field. Hybridization "forced" by humans - this is usually called "cross-breeding" could be two different varieties of the same species (such as two different varieties of squash, or two different varieties of apples), or two different closely related species (for example, two members of the Prunus family, such as plums and apricots.) Hybridization would NEVER be dogs and cats, or squash AND apples, or inserting a fish gene in a tomato.

I know I probably appear pedantic on the "GMO" nomenclature issue, but this is very important that we all understand what GMO is...and what it isn't.

Dennis

[sigma6]

GMOs are pretty much natural; Nature produces them on its own. Transgenics, on the other hand, isn't natural and can be very dangerous.

I think that is dangerous to start calling GMO's natural... not sure where you are going there...
and 70% of all soy production in the US is GMO. That is dangerous.
And if marijuana survives which I sort of agree with, is because we will still be forced to operate outside the regulatory controls that they will try and impose...

There shouldn't be ANY law for anything that grows natural on this EARTH, Because the corporations, that make these regulations can't claim ultimate ownership. And therefore don't have the right, and there is already "lawful" precedence for this. There is now a group of lawyers in fact who are UN-registered and UN-incorporated and they are trying to form an MLM network (which I disagree with) to spread their NEW society (really trading one corporate society for another) Point is they can NOW speak out and are telling us that YES, we have been duped, IT IS NOW PUBLICLY confirmed. And yes the country is just a corporation. And YES legal laws are NOTHING MORE then corporate CONTRACTS. And YES you can OPT out of all of these things...

This may be another reason these shifts are happening... Cat(s) jumping out of the bag. Game over. The Jig is up. People are waking up. The Crime Syndicates that everyone has been paying into and worshipping are being exposed. The time of internet communication is here. In a word. Truth is coming back in vogue.

[sigma6]

PS: GMO is a general term which isn't positive or negative...I guess you're mostly talking about Transgenics, which is when they mix genes from different specifies, like Monsanto does.

GMOs are pretty much natural; Nature produces them on its own. Transgenics, on the other hand, isn't natural and can be very dangerous.Hang on a second, we're mixing up terminology again.

GMO (Genetically Modified Organism) is a process that CANNOT be done by nature. "Transgenic" is a synonym for GMO. In the GMO/transgenic process, DNA is inserted from another species (such as a gene from fish being inserted into a tomato, or a soil bacterium (Bt) being inserted into corn.)

Hybridization is a natural process - done by nature - to further the natural genetic diversity, deal with the evolving climatic conditions, and toward species survival, or done by accident (wind, bees, etc), or done deliberately by humans in the field. Hybridization "forced" by humans - this is usually called "cross-breeding" could be two different varieties of the same species (such as two different varieties of squash, or two different varieties of apples), or two different closely related species (for example, two members of the Prunus family, such as plums and apricots.) Hybridization would NEVER be dogs and cats, or squash AND apples, or inserting a fish gene in a tomato.

I know I probably appear pedantic on the "GMO" nomenclature issue, but this is very important that we all understand what GMO is...and what it isn't.
Dennis

This is why I virulently disagree with people who go on about evolution, it is because this is exactly how they mix up and confuse all these issues, exactly. If you go to the heart of it, it is a political philosophical propaganda agenda, tied to millions and millions of tax dollars in universities, a scam.... And the result is exactly these types of misconceptions that I think Dennis is right to correct.

The key always goes back to the difference between adaptation vs using that same adaptation model but modifying it and calling it "evolution" because the supposed "causal agent" is supposed to be due to a mutation instead. This is a completely false hypothetical model, never to actually have been proven and impossible to achieve due to the successive random accumulation of mutations that would have to happen (like winning 20 different lotteries each month in perfect succession) A farce. And it sounded sophisticated because it is completely BORROWED from the Adaptation which IS a sophisticated and scientifically viable model of the relationship between genotypic selection and phenotypic expression. Anyhow enough of that rant. but there is a point to be had here.

In adaptation nature or man made forces are influencing EXISTING GENES within an EXISTING GENE POOL from the larger population. This is to me, if you just study it, see the whole politic, misconception, deceit in a nutshell. Brings clarity and exposure in one fell swoop. I personally feel like I was there, when I saw this "mishmashing" being done under everyone's noses. They get away with because nobody can actually believe in conspiracies!!?? That people have agendas??. That criminal activity actually occurs??? There is something wrong with people if they don't want to see this simple reality unfolding all around them. I didn't see it at the time, but in retrospect I can NOW see what they were playing with...

The spirit of influence that created and managed the "Piltdown" man is alive and well. Whether you want to call them Jesuits, Freemason, Criminal Cabals, Syndicates... they are ALL Secret Societies, and they exist and they manipulate things. I'm not claiming to be an expert botanist, but when I see how we are arguing about the meaning of the words like this, I do find it alarming, and it has to do with the HUGE AMOUNT of misinformation about subtle details that were MEANT to confuse...

So we should all step back (and maybe take a big drag.... if you know what I mean...) and contemplate this "argument" in a more holistic interpretation... this needs more reflection... less literalism. Less dotting of i's and crossing of t's and more looking at the fundamental principle of what we are trying to express here. We are getting caught up in that "point" game and I really don't like going there...

[Daphne]

http://www.amazon.com/Emperor-Wears-Clothes-Marijuana-Conspiracy/dp/1878125028/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1388587427&sr=1-1&keywords=the+emperor+wears+no+clothes

http://www.slideshare.net/TheHempSolution/comprehensive-report-on-the-cannabis-extract-movement

The most medicinal plant in the world.

[Mad Hatter]

Fascinating thread peeps, thanks one and all... now donning my curious cap for a mo...

Don't know about outside the land mass known as terra australis but there was a huge flap here recently when an influx of, shall we say 'recreational' green vegetable matter, was imported which due to some very clever molecular level adjustment (only one molecule mark you) courtesy of some very clever NZ'ers was freely being sold with the authorities unable to deal with it in their usual style because it effectively fell outside the proscribed chemical definition of THC. Brilliant from the perspective that it is just as effective (from the recreational point of view) but technically legal.

So a (rhetorical?) question for those arguing the difference between GMO v Hybridized perspective... which category does that fall under?? Or should / does this fall under the label CMO (chemically modified organism)?

To swing back to the Q originally posted by the OP... Storm in a teacup anyone?

If one accepts that logically the lid can no longer be kept on this by those that would like too and discounting entirely the recreational / medicinal perspective, when one considers the number of products that this quick grow anywhere crop can be put to, including hemp-crete for building, paper, oils, food, clothing, etc etc etc to me it becomes 'dogs balls' obvious Soros and the like are well aware the impact this will have on certain industries world wide.

Thus one might argue it is nothing more than the 'smart' money jockeying for position on the start line of what will be the lucrative side of the market as certain industries follow the dodo into extinction... nothing nefarious in it at all folks... it's just business as usual!

Too address another concerned raised re use as a pacifier... IIRC it was Robyn Williams who quipped "God gave man a penis and a brain and only enough blood to run one at a time!" Now admittedly from purely empirical experience only, that is a reasonable description of what consumption of many strains of the plant will do... ie the body may be pacified (to a degree) but the mind usually goes into hyper-drive. Based on that alone I would argue it is not a suitable substance for replacement of fluoridated water in the pacification stakes, even as an adjunct, as it would/does have entirely the opposite effect. From a control perspective having half the population stoned sitting on the couch but thinking way outside the nine dots does not IMO, for good slaves, make...

One last, but irrelevant, point to ponder... the intelligence of the plant itself... consider the symbiotic relationship it has formed with man, over probably a very very long time, which has seen it manage to establish itself on every continent worldwide... not bad for a 'mere' weed... :p

tuppence worth

cheers

PS Grow your own dope, plant a man !!

[anonymous]

my privacy standards have changed - 5/10/16 - apologies for the many edits of public comments

[jackovesk]

Fascinating thread peeps, thanks one and all... now donning my curious cap for a mo...

Don't know about outside the land mass known as terra australis but there was a huge flap here recently when an influx of, shall we say 'recreational' green vegetable matter, was imported which due to some very clever molecular level adjustment (only one molecule mark you) courtesy of some very clever NZ'ers was freely being sold with the authorities unable to deal with it in their usual style because it effectively fell outside the proscribed chemical definition of THC. Brilliant from the perspective that it is just as effective (from the recreational point of view) but technically legal.


The effing (IRONY) of it all, truly is a joke..!!!

I mean, I hadn't smoked for 30 years. Would'nt have a clue where to go or who to ask to get the real stuff...:noidea:

Then the Govt. & MSM come along and tell the public (Exactly) where to go and buy the (Synthetic Marijuana) and then BAN it...:faint:

I mean these ****ers are effing (Sick in the Head) or (just plain Stupid)...:wacko2:

[TargeT]

Fascinating thread peeps, thanks one and all... now donning my curious cap for a mo...

Don't know about outside the land mass known as terra australis but there was a huge flap here recently when an influx of, shall we say 'recreational' green vegetable matter, was imported which due to some very clever molecular level adjustment (only one molecule mark you) courtesy of some very clever NZ'ers was freely being sold with the authorities unable to deal with it in their usual style because it effectively fell outside the proscribed chemical definition of THC. Brilliant from the perspective that it is just as effective (from the recreational point of view) but technically legal.


The effing (IRONY) of it all, truly is a joke..!!!

I mean, I hadn't smoked for 30 years. Would'nt have a clue where to go or who to ask to get the real stuff...:noidea:

Then the Govt. & MSM come along and tell the public (Exactly) where to go and buy the (Synthetic Marijuana) and then BAN it...:faint:

I mean these ****ers are effing (Sick in the Head) or (just plain Stupid)...:wacko2:


I'd have to hear more details on what mad hatter is talking about. but synthetic THC is just a chemical that is sprayed on green looking herbs (of any type, not cannabis at all) that acts on the same receptors as THC.

it's NOT modified cannabis, it's nothing but a chemical, and since the receptor has been found there are literally thousands of these chemicals, they made their way through the US for a while & were very hard to make illegal since "the system" reacts so slowly to these things.

Mad Hatter's talk about "one molecule" isn't accurate at all, & is not even using the right terminology; though I'm sure he is just conveying what he understood.

[nzreva]

Uruguay and Paraguay are side by side notice the map, https://www.google.com/search?q=map+of+uruguay+and+paraguay&client=firefox-a&hs=bhO&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&source=iu&imgil=m4vdrJmoyroUNM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcTLDZOUnzMzrLHe5zRY4cIu4bF3-qCja4pe_aLx4q2kyFvLQyox5w%253B428%253B559%253Bo5rfWA0-K9tbJM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.travelbygps.com%25252Fz_links%25252Fproyectomapear_dot_com_a r.php&sa=X&ei=UBPPUvGkAu_hsAS_7IGADA&ved=0CD0Q9QEwAg&biw=1333&bih=590#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=KZMHl_Qxx8Ic9M%253A%3BdcxeoWiODQVP5M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.saltshaker.net%252Fwp-content%252Fsouthamericamap1.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.saltshaker.net%252Fargentina-geography%3B327%3B450
Do ya'll remember Bush or his dad or his daughter buying up 100,000 acres in Paraguay? I always knew their was a reason, or more. I believe this is one of the reasons. Another is the water rights in one of the best waster sources. Plus he can not be tried for war crimes. It is a win win.....

[OnyxKnight]

You are focusing on the wrong part of the question and reasoning.

Its the same as those people who smack the label evil on anything supported by a generally hated group of people. Need I post examples?

The question you should be asking jackovesk is why is the push to legalize this in so few countries, instead of waiting until the global atmosphere is right for its legalization everywhere?

[Rocky_Shorz]

the 3rd Reich moved to Blumenau Brazil after WW II and Uruguay being the lowest income country in south America has been a cartel haven for drug trafficking... crime drops when drugs become legal...

maybe this is to put the 3rd Reich into a money pinch...


I read Ben's blog right after posting and had to add it here...


Abe himself is linked to the Moonie Unification church that has a ranch next to the Bush ranch in Paraguay. This group has been implicated in the smuggling of drugs and weapons among other crimes...

[apokalypse]

Bill Gates is in...


Bill Gates, the Microsoft founder turned billionaire philanthropist, voted to legalize marijuana in his home state of Washington.

In a Tuesday interview with BuzzFeed, Gates said he voted in favor of the ballot measure during the 2012 election.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/21/bill-gates-marijuana-legalization_n_4639216.html?ncid=txtlnkushpmg00000037

[jackovesk]

Uruguay and Paraguay are side by side notice the map, https://www.google.com/search?q=map+of+uruguay+and+paraguay&client=firefox-a&hs=bhO&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&source=iu&imgil=m4vdrJmoyroUNM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcTLDZOUnzMzrLHe5zRY4cIu4bF3-qCja4pe_aLx4q2kyFvLQyox5w%253B428%253B559%253Bo5rfWA0-K9tbJM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.travelbygps.com%25252Fz_links%25252Fproyectomapear_dot_com_a r.php&sa=X&ei=UBPPUvGkAu_hsAS_7IGADA&ved=0CD0Q9QEwAg&biw=1333&bih=590#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=KZMHl_Qxx8Ic9M%253A%3BdcxeoWiODQVP5M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.saltshaker.net%252Fwp-content%252Fsouthamericamap1.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.saltshaker.net%252Fargentina-geography%3B327%3B450
Do ya'll remember Bush or his dad or his daughter buying up 100,000 acres in Paraguay? I always knew their was a reason, or more. I believe this is one of the reasons. Another is the water rights in one of the best waster sources. Plus he can not be tried for war crimes. It is a win win.....

Welcome to Paraguay - The 'New' Bush Plantation..!

http://www.geekfill.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/plantation_03.jpg

[anonymous]

my privacy standards have changed - 5/10/16 - apologies for the many edits of public comments

[OnyxKnight]

Everything is a conspiracy.




#sarcasm

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Many capitalists (Rockefellers too!) subscribe to the "if you can't beat them, join them (or take them over!!!)" mentality.

They made money in the past (other families too) because drugs were illegal. Such were the times.
Now they plan to make money because the drugs are monopolized.

I.e. like Bayer with heroin. The "stigma" of the danger of drugs gave them false authority and now people trust big pharma to have their best interests in mind...

there is only one interest in mind for those reptiles and it's the kind the bank issues.

[korgh]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2ecdlvn.jpg

[sheme]

I smoked pot once I was so disappointed I didn't bother again -anyone else wonder what all the fuss is about?

I hear Obama intends to legalize pot as well, according to BBC world service, it's a tax and control thing they guess.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25805206

[Phoenix1304]

Here's another reason legalisation is proceeding apace in the States and not in UK. Brits do not bear arms, and those running scared have seen a fine opportunity to disarm thousands of those pesky Americans that do - see this interesting article where the author makes the pertinent point that those that consume alcohol are not subjected to the draconian regulations being drawn up e'en now. Just don't make sense do it?

http://naturalsociety.com/medical-marijuana-users-will-forfeit-right-bear-arms/#ixzz2sCGqOVMk

[Camilo]

http://youtu.be/SbWNuUl1gqo (10 min. video)



Published on Feb 26, 2014

While Washington State is still adjusting to many changes since legalizing recreational marijuana—from growing space size to the number of licenses to give out—one of the biggest changes may be Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) employees going to work in the private sector. Reason TV sat down with Patrick Moen, a former supervisory special agent with the DEA, who now works as compliance director and senior counsel at Privateer Holdings, a private equity firm that invests in cannabis.

"The more law enforcement officers acknowledge that prohibition [of marijuana] is wrong, the better off society is going to be," said Moen. At the DEA he specialized in wiretaps and worked on cases varying from busting heroin and methamphetamine rings to rooting out pot and painkiller dealers. "Taking that first step is often the most difficult one, it just so happened that I was the one to take it."

Moen says that he got a lot of support from friends and former colleagues, the latter of which privately asked him for jobs. He says people may be surprised to know that an overwhelming majority of agents he interacted with didn't feel marijuana should be a priority for the DEA.

"Well, my own personal point of view is that drugs like methamphetamine and heroin have legitimate, observable, harmful effects to the user and people around the user and you definitely cannot say the same thing about cannabis," says Moen.

Reason TV presented Moen with numbers from the Department of Justice's 2013 National Drug Threat Assessment indicating an increase in the availability of methamphetamine and heroin in the U.S.

"There are some cases of mine in particular that I am very proud of that I can look back at and say that I had a measurable effect on this community for some period of time before it bounced back," says Moen. "I don't think anyone was under the illusion that we were going to stop it, that we were going to win the war on drugs."

Moen is aware of the criticism of the DEA and the war on drugs in general.

"I think there is a certain subset of the population that views DEA agents as jackbooted thugs, that have an agenda to oppress them.... But it's just another job, and there are guys there that are competent, and there are guys there that are less so, but they are all trying to do the job the best that they can."

Privateer Holdings is looking to invest in businesses that surround the legal marijuana industry like the cannabis review site, Leafly.com, which also helps users find different strains and locations of cannabis around them. Leafly claims to have a website and app that generate more than more than 2.3 million visits a month.

The private cannabis industry isn't without worries though. CEO at Privateer Holdings, Brenden Kennedy, told Bloomberg TV on January 28, that banking in the marijuana industry was nearly impossible because banks were concerned with the taboo nature of the product. "We have been kicked out of two banks, two large banks, very unceremoniously," said Kennedy, who also said at least one employee at Privateer Holdings had experienced trouble with his personal bank account.

"The biggest risk we see is from the federal government. Bureaucrats and politicians are always the last ones to accept change," said Kennedy.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

They'd better turn around and just invest that money instead of giving the banker a free loan.

:)

I think there are plenty of investment firms that need money right now,
or better yet, contract directly with the service providers (be their Jacob Astor of weed). lol

Another option is to give the marijuana money to the poor. God forbid.
That the rich should help balance a state budget or something.

:P

p.s. someone told me that WA state is no longer selling the store licenses?
omgwtf :(

[ponda]

From Top Documantary Films (http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/cannabis-uruguay/)

Last year Colorado became the first state in the US to legalize recreational marijuana, but in Uruguay the government is getting ready to legalize and regulate weed across the country. So, VICE went there to figure out how they're going to pull this off. Is it going to be a smoker's paradise or rather overly regulated cash crop for the government?

In December 2013 Uruguay's Congress passed a law that regulated the cultivation, sale and consumption of marijuana. It was a watershed moment in the history of pot prohibition. The first entire country decided to eradicate the brutal legacy of the war on drugs and open up the potential of a new legitimate economy.

But weed isn't entirely legal yet. From December until April this year the government has been debating and writing the specifics of the regulations which will likely be set in stone in late April and then take effect this fall. It turns out the devil is in the details and the law poses more questions than an answers. About individual liberty, the prospects of a commercial weed boom and more.

The great Uruguayan experiment, brought forward by the country's progressive president, has stirred up a heated debate from both sides of the anti-prohibition isle. Alicia Castilla and Daniel Vidart are long time weed advocates and academics. Alicia was just released from prison where she spent three months locked up on marijuana charges. She was one of the last people to be put away for pot. VICE visited them in their home just outside the country's capital.

Alicia has been consuming cannabis for the last 50 years. She thinks this is a repressive law that legalizes the stigma that already exists towards the consumer. The state shouldn't register people and it shouldn't regulate them either. The state shouldn't determine how much can people smoke and no one should be restricted to smoke only government's marijuana.

1BwVxmJPies

[Azt]

Soros is behind it ... and that is not good , remember: there is no "free lunch" in wall street. Uruguay will pay with their youth. The President of Uruguay is a good guy though. The overall idea was good but if you allow to be hijacked by people like Soros behind the scene that is no good.

[childs hood end]

government gmo weed as well I suspect...
maybe the reason its been made legal after all these years.. that and tax.

keepin it home grown... is the way to be going.

[ponda]

Azt said

Soros is behind it ... and that is not good , remember: there is no "free lunch" in wall street. Uruguay will pay with their youth. The President of Uruguay is a good guy though. The overall idea was good but if you allow to be hijacked by people like Soros behind the scene that is no good.


Soros smells an opportunity to make money i suspect.

There's other ways of utilizing the Hemp plant besides getting high.



5 Ways Hemp Will Change Our World (http://www.collective-evolution.com/2012/04/01/5-ways-hemp-will-change-our-world/)


1. Paper & Cardboard Products

Hemp regenerates in months; it grows extremely quickly, sounds like a perfect thing to make paper with. Unlike trees that can take over 30 years to be ready to harvest hemp is ready to go right away! Why are we still clear cutting forests? Hemp is a way better alternative! The paper that is made from hemp doesn’t become yellow or brittle because hemp is naturally acid free. Did you know that the original declaration of independence was written on hemp paper? Hemp can be recycled up to 7 times, while wood pulp paper can only be recycled a maximum of 3 times. Not to mention that 220 million pounds of toxic pollution are added into the air and water every year during the production of wood paper and pulp. Hemp paper does not need to be bleached with chlorine; it can be whitened with hydrogen peroxide, which is a lot safer for the water and soil of the earth.


2. Clothing & Fabrics

As a fabric, hemp is the optimal choice! ‘Hemp doesn’t wear out, it wears in!’ Hemp clothing becomes softer every time you wash it. Growing hemp requires the use of very little pesticides and no herbicides, so not only is this great for the environment, but in turn, if used for clothing and blankets, it is not harmful for your skin. One acre of hemp will produce as much material as 2-3 acres of cotton. Wow, this hemp really is amazing isn’t it? Hemp material will keep you cool in the heat and keep you warm in the cold, it is known to be 4 times warmer than cotton material! The production of hemp into fabric instead of cotton, as if there aren’t enough amazing facts about hemp fabric as it is, it is also naturally fire retardant! So as oppose to most other fabrics, clothing, bed sheets, linens etc.. it would not need to have fire repellant chemicals added, what a great bonus!


3. Plastic & Building Materials

Did you know that Henry Ford made a body for a car that was lighter than steel but could stand 10 times the impact without denting? Of course, it was made of hemp! Hemp can be made into various different building materials, hempcrete, fiberboard, carpet, stucco, cement blocks, insulation, and plastic. Not only are Hemp building supplies a lot better for the environment but also walls made from Hemp are rot free, pest free, mold free and fire resistant! Walls made from hemp can last up to 500 years. How’s that for sustainability? Hemp plastic can completely replace oil based plastic materials that we are using today that contain large amounts of dangerous chemicals such as the very well known Bisphenol A. If all our plastics were made from hemp material you could literally purchase something that came in a plastic hemp container and then throw that container directly into the compost, as hemp plastics are completely biodegradable. Now why have we even been using the other harmful destructive ways of producing plastic?


4. Fuel

Hemp can be made into fuel in two ways: the oil from the pressed hempseed can be turned into biodiesel, or the fermented stalk can be made into ethanol and methanol. Biodiesel is completely biodegradable and a much cleaner fuel for the air. Even the exhaust produced from burning hempseed biodiesel has a pleasant smell. Although hemp is not the greatest alternative to fuel that is available, hemp fuel can be used temporarily because it can be used in all the existing vehicles today without making any alterations. Both sources of hemp fuel are non-toxic and are completely biodegradable.

5. Nutrition

So, not only is hemp great for the environment, it is great for your body too! Hemp seeds are known to be one of the most nutritious seeds on the planet! Quite impressive, I know. Along with magnesium, potassium, dietary fiber and almost every vitamin and mineral that the body needs, Hemp seeds contain high amounts of essential omega 3 and 6 fatty acids. Hemp seeds are very high in protein, containing 25% protein content. They do not contain phytic acid, which means every last bit of goodness that these tiny seeds have to offer can be absorbed and utilized by the body! Hemp seeds have a great nutty taste to them too, so you’ll enjoy sprinkling them over salads or your other favorite dishes!




General Hemp Information (http://hempbasics.com/shop/hemp-information)


On an annual basis, 1 acre of hemp will produce as much fiber as 2 to 3 acres of cotton. Hemp fiber is stronger and softer than cotton, lasts twice as long as cotton, and will not mildew.

Cotton grows only in moderate climates and requires more water than hemp; but hemp is frost tolerant, requires only moderate amounts of water, and grows in all 50 states. Cotton requires large quantities of pesticides and herbicides--50% of the world's pesticides/herbicides are used in the production of cotton. Hemp requires no pesticides, no herbicides, and only moderate amounts of fertilizer.

On an annual basis, 1 acre of hemp will produce as much paper as 2 to 4 acres of trees. From tissue paper to cardboard, all types of paper products can be produced from hemp.

The quality of hemp paper is superior to tree-based paper. Hemp paper will last hundreds of years without degrading, can be recycled many more times than tree-based paper, and requires less toxic chemicals in the manufacturing process than does paper made from trees.

Hemp can be used to produce fiberboard that is stronger and lighter than wood. Substituting hemp fiberboard for timber would further reduce the need to cut down our forests.

Hemp can be used to produce strong, durable and environmentally-friendly plastic substitutes. Thousands of products made from petroleum-based plastics can be produced from hemp-based composites.

It takes years for trees to grow until they can be harvested for paper or wood, but hemp is ready for harvesting only 120 days after it is planted. Hemp can grow on most land suitable for farming, while forests and tree farms require large tracts of land available in few locations. Harvesting hemp rather than trees would also eliminate erosion due to logging, thereby reducing topsoil loss and water pollution caused by soil runoff.

Hemp seeds contain a protein that is more nutritious and more economical to produce than soybean protein. Hemp seeds are not intoxicating. Hemp seed protein can be used to produce virtually any product made from soybean: tofu, veggie burgers, butter, cheese, salad oils, ice cream, milk, etc. Hemp seed can also be ground into a nutritious flour that can be used to produce baked goods such as pasta, cookies, and breads.

Hemp seed oil can be used to produce non-toxic diesel fuel, paint, varnish, detergent, ink and lubricating oil. Because hemp seeds account for up to half the weight of a mature hemp plant, hemp seed is a viable source for these products.

Just as corn can be converted into clean-burning ethanol fuel, so can hemp. Because hemp produces more biomass than any plant species (including corn) that can be grown in a wide range of climates and locations, hemp has great potential to become a major source of ethanol fuel.

Literally millions of wild hemp plants currently grow throughout the U.S. Wild hemp, like hemp grown for industrial use, has no drug properties because of its low THC content. U.S. marijuana laws prevent farmers from growing the same hemp plant that proliferates in nature by the millions.

From 1776 to 1937, hemp was a major American crop and textiles made from hemp were common. Yet, The American Textile Museum, The Smithsonian Institute, and most American history books contain no mention of hemp. The government's War on Drugs has created an atmosphere of self censorship where speaking of hemp in a positive manner is considered politically incorrect or taboo.

United States Presidents George Washington and Thomas Jefferson grew hemp, used products made from hemp, and praised the hemp plant in some of their writings.

No other natural resource offers the potential of hemp. Cannabis Hemp is capable of producing significant quantities of paper, textiles, building materials, food, medicine, paint, detergent, varnish, oil, ink, and fuel. Unlike other crops, hemp can grow in most climates and on most farmland throughout the world with moderate water and fertilizer requirements, no pesticides, and no herbicides. Cannabis Hemp (also known as Indian Hemp) has enormous potential to become a major natural resource that can benefit both the economy and the environment.

more... (http://hempbasics.com/shop/hemp-information)

[rgray222]

From Top Documantary Films (http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/cannabis-uruguay/)


Alicia has been consuming cannabis for the last 50 years. She thinks this is a repressive law that legalizes the stigma that already exists towards the consumer. The state shouldn't register people and it shouldn't regulate them either. The state shouldn't determine how much can people smoke and no one should be restricted to smoke only government's marijuana.



You would not expect someone that has been using weed for 50 years to feel any differently.

I personally think that people should not put anything in their bodies the alters the mind in any way shape or form. I also don't think that this drug is dangerous nor should it be criminalized. People should be free to make choices in their lives as to drugs/alcohol etc, I would just like to see people make the right choices. My personal opinion is by not allowing children to drink until they are 18-21 makes it desirable and a right of passage to becoming an adult. The same holds true for mj, making it illegal makes it desirable to young kids and starts them down a road that many regret later. Remove the allure and you remove the desire.

Also while I am on my soapbox................no government should profit from the sale of alcohol, cannabis or be in the gambling (lottery) business. If they need to be in this business to control criminal behavior than 100% of the proceeds should go back in to treating alcoholics, drug addicts and people with a gambling addiction. Right now the government puts this money back into the general fund and use very little to treat these problems.

The state that I currently live in was one of the last to get into the lottery business and they passed it when two opposing politicians were absent for the vote. One was on his honeymoon and the other in the hospital having open heart surgery. They sold it to the public as the "education lottery" and they aggressively advertise it that way every week. When you read about the distribution of funds only 3% goes back into the state school system. In other words the lottery was and still is a complete sham and hurts the poor and disadvantaged the most.

Politicians always tell us they want to help the poor and the disenfranchised but guess who gets hurt the most by legalizing all of this behavior.

Just think for a minute if you were to explain governments behavior to someone that is completely unfamiliar with planet earth. You would tell them that governments spend billions treating drug, alcohol and gambling abuse. They have built clinics, hospitals and have massive research programs dedicated to treating some of these "diseases". At the same time they spend billions actively promoting the sale of the products that cause these same "diseases", it really is madness when you actually think about it.

I would not be so quick to applaud this action by the government until all the facts have surfaced.

[ponda]

rgray222 said

I would not be so quick to applaud this action by the government until all the facts have surfaced.




I'm not really applauding it.I'm just sharing the documentary.

I find it interesting that there appears to be a softening of the cannabis/hemp laws in some places at the moment.I wonder where/what it might lead to.

The main reason that the Hemp plant has not been more widely used in some of the ways mentioned above is because it got people high and has been demonized etc.I would like to see more wide spread economic use of the non-psychoactive Hemp plant.These new softer laws might help to bring that about sooner.

[LivioRazlo]

I don't know why people continue to label marijuana as a drug. It's a plant that has been here well before we ever were. In fact, many of the plants you see in the world today contain a substance called "DMT" - should we label all these plants drugs because of an active ingredient found within them?

[Davidallany]

This is good. I think people should make a decision whether to use drugs or not. After all everyone who is an adult should learn to take responsibility for acting out mere thoughts and emotions. Thoughts by themselves can be addressed then dismissed if they don't come out favourably, also actions of thoughts that were carried out due to ingnorance can be analyzed and discontinued by a personal will and resolve. Emotions can be acknowledged too then processed using a few techniques.
People are talking about ascension, enlightenment and phasing into higher dimensions. However, real efforts are needed to achieve something.

In short and to quote a wise-man “There is no royal road to geometry.” [Euclid].

And another,

"Health, contentment and trust
Are your greatest possessions,
And freedom your greatest joy.
Look within.
Be still.
Buddha
Dhammapada.

[rgray222]

[QUOTE]rgray222 said

I would not be so quick to applaud this action by the government until all the facts have surfaced.


I applaud you for posting this, I think people need to see all sides of every subject before making their minds up on whether or not it is beneficial for mankind. I was just adding my $.02


I don't know why people continue to label marijuana as a drug. It's a plant that has been here well before we ever were. In fact, many of the plants you see in the world today contain a substance called "DMT" - should we label all these plants drugs because of an active ingredient found within them?

When you get right down to everything on planet earth is natural, even the most toxic waste we produce was at one time a plant or mineral. Just because things are found in nature does not necessarily make them good for consumption.

I think that any plant substance that has any medicinal effect on people should be considered a drug. I think what you are referring to is the word "drug" because it has become a term considered to be negative. Drug abuse, drug war these are terms coined by society and used in a very broad sense. It is unfortunate but it is simply the way it is!

[Matt P]

This is very positive but I know full well how strongly the Cabal cannot let marijuana become legal and will fight this.
Marijuana is not a drug. It is not addictive. It is not a gateway drug. It is a miracle plant with more amazing benefit than any other plant on this planet. It was NOT made to be illegal because it can get people high. It was made to be illegal for one reason and one reason only--it is a threat to corporate and government profit and a threat to police state control of the people. Marijuana is empowering because it can be grown cheaply and easily by anyone in their own back yard. It requires no pesticides, it grows quickly and it improves the soil in which it is grown. As Ponda says above, it can be used as food, fuel, medicine and many textiles. It is a threat to the oil industry, paper industry, clothing industry, medical cartel and government profit (from the production, processing and distribution of heroin, cocaine and marijuana by the government), which is the largest drug dealer in the entire world. This is why this miracle plant is illegal. People strangely latch on to the one thing it can do that makes them uneasy (psychoactive) and then demonize it because of their fear. People have been altering their consciousness for thousands of years and this will not change. If it was legal, this could be done safely but, again, this is not what the controllers want people to have the power to do. It should be illegal to NOT use marijuana because then we would not need many pharmaceuticals or alcohol.

I never have trouble with clicking on any article on this site yet when I click on this one, my computer says the page is not available. This is now the third time I've tried to post this message. The first two times I tried, the page went blank. This has never happened on any of the few posts I've done. Either this is coincidence or someone doesn't want us seeing/communicating about this.

Matt

[edit: yay, 3rd time is a charm]

[chancy]

Hello Everyone: This is a Great article that just shows beauracracy didn't just start yesterday! It was running well even in 1923. The law to ban marijuana wasn't even passed in Canada's parliment. In fact someone ( and they don't know positively who did it ) had just added it to a list with cocaine. It appears Canada was the test model to see if everyone else would ban it also.

Here is the link:

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/marijuana-criminalized-1923-why-092931240.html


Here is the article:

"Marijuana was criminalized in 1923 but why
CBC – 6 hours ago - May 3, 2014

Marijuana growers say early signs are good
Legal or not, marijuana sold and used freely
Pot activists in Canada and elsewhere will be taking part today in what's being billed as a "Global Marijuana March." In this country, they will be calling for the decriminalization of marijuana.
They might also ask why it became illegal in the first place.
That happened in 1923, and if there was any kind of parliamentary debate historians have been unable to find a record of it.
When Parliament decided to add marijuana to the schedule of proscribed drugs that year, Canada became one of the first countries to making smoking pot illegal. The U.S. didn't accomplish that until 14 years later, in the midst of the Great Depression.
In 1923, then prime minister William Lyon Mackenzie King's Liberal government introduced an Act to Prohibit the Improper Use of Opium and other Drugs. The federal health minister at the time, Henri Beland, said the bill was a consolidation of other legislation that had been passed over the previous few years, with some changes.

At the time, the only drugs on the schedule were opium, morphine, cocaine and eucaine (a local anesthetic first introduced as a substitute for cocaine).

The new bill added three drugs to the proscribed list: heroin, codeine and "cannabis indica (Indian hemp) or hasheesh."

The only mention of the proposed changes to the schedule recorded in Hansard was on April 23, when Beland told the House of Commons, "There is a new drug in the schedule."

In fact, there were actually three new drugs. Historian Catherine Carstairs says Beland was likely referring to cannabis when he said there was “a new drug,” because in the government's view, "the other two are extensions of other products that had already been added to the schedule."

Carstairs is the author of Jailed for Possession: Illegal Drug Use, Regulation and Power in Canada, 1920-1961 and chair of the University of Guelph's history department.

The next month, on May 3, when it was the Senate's turn to review the legislation, Raoul Dandurand, the Liberal government's leader in the Senate, told his colleagues, "There is only one addition to the schedule: Cannabis Indica (Indian Hemp) or hasheesh."

And, in what may be the most detailed account of these 1923 events, the authors of the 1991 book Panic and Indifference: The Politics of Canada's Drug Laws, state that the health department’s narcotic division's files contain a draft of the bill that does not include cannabis. There are also several carbon copies, and to one of them was added, "Cannabis Indica (Indian Hemp) or hasheesh."

It seems no one knows who added that phrase, or ordered it added. But both the House and the Senate agreed to the additions without any discussion.

One reason that no one in Parliament asked about or challenged the addition of marijuana to the schedule may be because little was known about the drug in Canada at the time, and very few people were using it.

We could find no references to marijuana in either the Toronto Star or the Globe and Mail in 1923. And there were no police seizures of marijuana until 1932.

Looking back, it may seem odd that a decision that has in one way or another seriously affected the lives of hundreds of thousands of Canadians took place without debate.

There was also no debate in Parliament then about adding the better-known heroin and codeine to the schedule of proscribed drugs either.

Heroin had been on the market since 1898, courtesy of the Bayer pharmaceutical company.

Heroin is the brand name for a semi-synthetic compound derived from morphine, so authorities had probably considered it as a proscribed drug since the first schedule was passed in 1911, which included "morphine, its salts and compounds."

Proscribing codeine was more controversial, although after it was added doctors, druggists and the pharmaceutical industry successfully lobbied to have codeine decriminalized.

It was removed from the schedule in 1925, though the U.S. government and the Canadian government’s own narcotic division criticized the decision.

A 1922 book, The Black Candle, by Emily Murphy, is frequently given as the explanation for the King government's move against marijuana. However, no evidence beyond coincidence has been put forward that the book, or Murphy, influenced the government's decision.

The book is based on a series of articles Murphy, then a judge, wrote for Maclean's magazine in 1920. The series did not mention marijuana but her book has a seven-page chapter called, her spelling, "Marahuana -- a new menace."

Murphy starts out by noting "the drug is not really new" and "comparatively unknown in the United States and Canada."

But, today, that is arguably the best-known chapter in the book, even though historians have not uncovered evidence that this chapter attracted much public attention in its early years.

Murphy herself is best remembered as one of the Famous Five, from the celebrated “persons case” — that women qualify as persons for the purpose of being appointed to the Senate — a suit that eventually won the day in the British Privy Council.

With no parliamentary debate, no evidence of public debate or discussion, and no paper trail about why marijuana was criminalized in 1923, it's understandable why people would later link the decision to The Black Candle. But Carstairs says it's probably just happenstance.

She also told CBC News, "There were insinuations in the records that the bureaucrats at the division of narcotic control did not think very highly of Emily Murphy and did not pay attention to what she was writing about, and they didn't consider her a particularly accurate or valuable source."

Unlike the other drugs on the government’s proscribed list, the book Panic and Indifference observes that marijuana was criminalized in Canada long before it could be defined as a social problem. "Why this was so remains a mystery."

However, this was an era of prohibition and control, and before he became prime minister, Mackenzie King had been a strong advocate for prohibiting opium, which happened in 1908.

Carstairs says that there's no record King was then keeping a close eye on the drug file and she has found no reference to marijuana in his diaries.

There's also no reason to think there was any science behind the decision. The major report of the era, and it was seven volumes in length, was Britain's Indian Hemp Drugs Commission report, published in 1894.

"Moderate use practically produces no ill effects," according to the report, and the evidence the commission heard "shows most clearly how little injury society has hitherto sustained from hemp drugs."

An alternative theory for the marijuana ban was put forward in 1974 by Alexander Morrison, an assistant deputy minister at Health Canada. "Col. Sharman, then Director of the Federal Division of Narcotic Control, returned from meetings of the League of Nations convinced that cannabis would soon fall under international control. In anticipation of such action, he moved to have it added to the list of drugs controlled under Canadian law."

However, Sharman did not become the director of the division until 1927, and before that he was at the department of agriculture, so that explanation goes up in smoke.

Nevertheless, Carstairs argues, "There would have been significant international pressures to do so. Canada liked to see itself as a leader in the drive for international drug control. We were actively involved in all of the international discussions."

Despite this, she says there was "no international sentiment against smoking marijuana" at the time.

Criminalizing marijuana "had almost no impact in the years immediately after it was added but the fact that it was added has certainly had long-term consequences," Carstairs says.

Today, when protesters demand decriminalization, the federal government may be able to come up with reasons not to do so, but it would be hard-pressed to explain why it was criminalized in the first place."

chancy

[DeDukshyn]

Posting CBC stories, heh. :P

[chancy]

Wasn't actually me that went to cbc for the story...that was yahoo.ca

Thought it was important today to get the word out on Canada and their role in making pot illegal since this is 2014 Global Marijuana March Day and it was Canada that was one of the first to make marijuana illegal with an illegal act in government. It wasn't even done honestly in 1923.
Was only fitting to use an article from Canada.

As much as I don't like the idea of a company that I help pay as well as everyother canuck and don't even get the tv channel that they promised all canadians for FREE.
We can get it if we rent cable or satellite feeds which is a little ironic for a government channel that is full of public funds.

chancy

[Patrikas]

Perhaps these companys and and synthetic products had a bit to do with it ........cheers

http://www.ozarkia.net/bill/pot/blunderof37.html

[Ellisa]

It seems that a number of useful drugs were criminalised in the 1950s, among them heroin. I am 74 and was born, at home, in the UK. At the time the anaesthetic often used for pain relief during childbirth was heroin! or a least an opium derivative. Heroin was also used very effectively in cough medicines and other products. It was abolished as a result of concerns in the US about its misuse, and so an excellent and effective medicinal drug disappeared. I have always been told, that, like marijuana in Canada apparently, heroin was banned BEFORE it became a problem, and in fact, many medically qualified people were against the banning. The fact is that heroine is an effective drug, and some who take it become addicted. Obviously not all. My mum wasn't! Half the drugs we use in medicine can become drugs of addiction for some people. By banning these various medications the government lost control of their distribution--- and the criminalisation of drug distribution started, and has never stopped.

Footnote
I have never used either drugs-- I have an allergy to opiates! I cannot even tolerate codeine or paracetamol, so I have no interest in whether these things are available or not. But i get upset when I feel that panic (as mentioned by chancy), is more powerful than considered opinion and the result is a mess.

[DeDukshyn]

Wasn't actually me that went to cbc for the story...that was yahoo.ca

Thought it was important today to get the word out on Canada and their role in making pot illegal since this is 2014 Global Marijuana March Day and it was Canada that was one of the first to make marijuana illegal with an illegal act in government. It wasn't even done honestly in 1923.
Was only fitting to use an article from Canada.

As much as I don't like the idea of a company that I help pay as well as everyother canuck and don't even get the tv channel that they promised all canadians for FREE.
We can get it if we rent cable or satellite feeds which is a little ironic for a government channel that is full of public funds.

chancy

I honestly hear your plight, every Canadian should get it for free ... however Harper is really making changes that will soon make even that returning possibility null. Which is unfortunate in my opinion.

Anyway back to topic ...
I read this article this morning and thought also that it was important.

[sigma6]

Bloody Canada under Harper, makes us look like a bunch of suck ups to her Majesty.

[ponda]

Why Legalize Marijuana? Because GMO Pot Is On Its Way (http://www.zengardner.com/legalize-marijuana-gmo-pot-way/)

http://www.zengardner.com/wp-content/uploads/gmograss.jpg

U.S. corporation Monsanto plans to launch production of genetically modified marijuana, and companies such as Drug Policy Alliance y Open Society Foundation are going to create our own brand, which will be produced under cannabis, information portal La Red 21.

Organization of Open Society Foundation is under the control of the shareholder Monsanto, billionaire George Soros. Company Drug Policy Alliance y Open Society Foundation, funded by Monsanto will be responsible for market development of transgenic seeds of marijuana, particularly in Uruguay.

Uruguay – the first country in the world to officially legalize the production and sale of marijuana. Initiator of the law was the leadership of the State, headed by President Jose Mujica. According to authorities, a guarantee of success in Uruguay marijuana legalization should be state regulation of prices for hemp.

There are many reasons why Monsanto and other companies producing GMOs would like to learn a new product. Marijuana may be the next major GMO crop. First of all, the company plans to produce GMO manipulate so-called “medical marijuana”. If pharmacists join with GMO companies, pharmaceutical mafia can create transgenic strains with the ability to produce more active compounds which are patented and can be implemented as a medicine.

It is also worth noting that former strategic director Jamin Shively Microsoft also announced that it plans to patent in the U.S. is the first national brand under which will be produced hemp imported from Mexico. The new company is based in Seattle.

Businessman said that the initial funding for the project is $ 10 million to start the company’s products will be distributed only in two U.S. states, but at the request of Shively: “We will seek to ensure that in our hands was 40% of cannabis in the world.”

[Heartsong]

This is a copy of an article from the Daily Beast.com May 21, 2014

The Bluegrass State is eager to grow hemp for the purposes of research and commerce. Instead, its hemp seeds just became the latest casualty in the DOJ’s war on drugs.
Not long ago in America’s history, hemp was king. “Make the most of the hemp seed and grow it everywhere,” George Washington instructed his new America.

So vital to our young nation’s success was hemp, that the 1619 Virginia Assembly actually deemed it illegal for farmers not to grow the plant. It’s strange then, given how deeply entrenched hemp once was in the American landscape, to watch Kentucky fight the Department of Justice—not only for the right to grow it, but the seeds to do so.

After challenging the Drug Enforcement Administration’s decision to seize 250 pounds of seeds from the Louisville Airport in court last Friday, the Kentucky Agriculture Department will meet the feds across the aisle Wednesday. The fate of hemp production in America hangs in the balance. So how did hemp go wrong?

In the mid-1700s, hemp—derived from the same plant as marijuana—was ubiquitous, used for everything from food to fabric. While originating from cannabis sativa, like pot, it contains only a negligible amount of THC (the psychedelic chemical in weed). Those trying to get high from hemp are likely to have about as much luck as those chugging O'Doul's. If marijuana’s game is calming, hemp’s is commerce.

But as decades passed, nylon and materials stole hemp’s thunder. Then came the war on drugs and with it, innocent casualties. Hemp, too close to reefer madness for comfort, was one of them.

If not for movies like Dazed and Confused, hemp would have all but disappeared from American discourse. But with the passing of the 2014 Farm Bill this year, including an amendment to allow certain state departments to grow hemp for research, a revelous reunion seemed at hand: an opportunity for the 10 states with legislation allowing hemp production to be leaders in a new, promising industry.

But while growing hemp seeds for research at the state level is now legal, importing the seeds to do so still isn’t, according to the Drug Enforcement Administration.

It’s a fact Kentucky officials learned the hard way when the 250 pounds of seeds they’d flown in from Italy were swiftly handed over to U.S. Customs and Border Patrol Officials. Infuriated by the seizure, the Kentucky Department of Agriculture (KDA) lashed out publicly, eliciting a response from the Department of Justice, who swiftly defended the DEA. In a letter Tuesday, Deputy Assistant Administrator Office of Diversion Control Joseph T. Rannazzisi explains why the DEA acted appropriately. “No person may import cannabis seeds unless such a person is registered with the DEA to do so and has obtained the requisite permit,” Rannazzisi writes, before proposing a plan of action for the KDA to apply for a permit.

The DOJ considered this a quick and easy solution. The KDA did not, filing a lawsuit mere hours after the letter was released claiming the DEA was “engrafting additional regulatory and bureaucratic requirements.”

The DOJ disagrees, saying that these are existing procedures in place that are not trumped by the Farm Bill. In court Friday, the first hearing on the case, the judge instructed the state of Kentucky to apply for the license as instructed by the DEA. Once this goes through, the feds have allegedly agreed to hand the seeds over. But even if they do, hempgate may be far from over.

While the Farm Bill allows for private farmers in Kentucky to grow hemp under the supervision of the government, the DEA is allegedly only going to honor that right for universities and the agriculture agency itself.

In the view of Jonathan Miller, former Kentucky state treasurer and now a member of the industrial hemp commission, this is beyond ridiculous—defeating the purpose of the entire amendment.

“The DEA said private farmers can’t grow it because the legislation only mentioned the universities and the department of agriculture. Well, our department of agriculture is an office building,” Miller says. “The logic is missing. Did Congress intend for only [Kentucky Agriculture Commissioner] James Comer to be able to plant seeds in a patch of garden outside his office?”

The No. 1 producer of hemp in the 19th century, Kentucky has high hopes that hemp can turn the tide of its broken financial system. Now, they’re not so sure. “My state is really suffering economically. This is a crop that can grow abundantly and produce so many jobs,” says Miller.

Referring to himself as a “recovering politician,” he believes it’s fear of change, not policy, that’s driving the fight. “I have the greatest respect for law enforcement, they have a tough job. But law enforcement and the DEA have such a fierce opposition to drugs. They think anything that’s a distant cousin of marijuana could possibly get you high. It’s an internal bureaucratic resistance to change.”


The DOJ, for one, is sticking with the facts. “The Court has instructed Kentucky’s state agricultural department to apply for the appropriate DEA permits to obtain the hemp seeds at issue,” Ellen Canale, spokesperson for the U.S. Department of Justice, tells (PDF) The Daily Beast. “The DEA will continue to work with state officials so the state can lawfully obtain the seeds.”

As they battle it out once more in court Wednesday, all eyes will be on Kentucky—including, most likely, those of Congress, which for once is united behind a cause. Miller, who’s been in politics for 20 years, calls the congressional support of hemp “breathtaking.” “I have never seen something move in such a bipartisan way…it’s been crazy. Most everyone was against it only a year and a half ago, but now you have Rand Paul and Mitch McConnell standing arm and arm, supporting it.”

Even more than supporting it, they’re now aggressively fighting the DEA for it. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell told Politico he was appalled by the DEA’s action. “It is an outrage that DEA is using finite taxpayer dollars to impound legal industrial hemp seeds,” he said. In an interview with the Huffington Post, Rep. Earl Blumenauer described the situation as showing how “incredibly out of touch with America” the DEA is. (The agency declined to comment for this article).

Whatever happens Wednesday, it will prove vital to the other nine states that are soon to follow in Kentucky’s footsteps. If the DEA obliges, they may soon be hitting the farming lottery. “Is [hemp] a panacea? No,” says Miller. “But in this tough economy it only makes sense to give farmers this new option. There’s no reason to treat them like drug dealers.”
It’s safe to say America is hooking back up with hemp. Or, in Facebook-speak, “it’s complicated.”

[Matt P]

One of the few positive things Mitch McConnell has ever endorsed. This guy's a cabal water carrier. Makes one wonder...
Usually Kentucky is among the last to do just about anything. Considering we were once the #1 hemp producer, this makes so much sense to turn our fortunes around. Now, with marijuana being our current #1 cash crop, we'll have to get that on the docket, too! Might as well make tax money off a billion dollar black market industry. It's embarrassing that Colorado, Oregon and other states are moving ahead of us on this.

Matt

[Lifebringer]

The crops are gonna be irradiated if all this is true. I stumbled on it, and bought it here. You know how they have censored any information on it, and it needs to be tweeted to those people who not only are facing high wind wild fires, but fukishima unit 4, has blown it's top and is spilling deadly gases, contaminated water, the works. I was reading their twitter conversation on it after watching the Japanese video of the local media. Someone posted it from Japan a couple times.

http://enenews.comgov-diseased-seals-along-pacific-coast-of-alaska-experts-livers-crumble-hearts-enlarged-and-pale-yellow-lymph-nodes-blood-filled-lungs-photos-professor-worrying-ther

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/05/fukishima-lives-unit-4-has-exploded-its-on-fire-video-2960558.html
I'm still going over their twitter comments.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

hopefully for commercial hemp, the outdoors won't be too awfully dirty.

for smoking/edible etc cannabis, definitely in today's tech environ you want INDOOR GROW or at least hidden grow.