Personal, controversial view of Monsanto, Globalists and Technology

[blufire]

I started this thread as a spin from this thread: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59447-Seeds-of-Death-Unveiling-The-Lies-of-GMO-s-Full-Movie/page3

I have decided that I need to try to communicate more fully my seemingly controversial understanding of certain polarizing topics and issues as they are typically discussed on Avalon.

I have done a 180 in the past few years and especially the past 2+ years after moving from Kansas and leaving the rat race and back to the Appalachians where I grew up. Since returning to the mountains I have begun to ‘remember’.

Actually where I am today in my spirituality, knowledge, understanding and wisdom is a result of ‘encounters’ from my childhood . . . . encounters that I have begun to remember since I have been back and secluded in my beloved mountains.

So I am going to try hard to post as often as possible to try to communicate my ‘remembering and knowing’. I will apologize now because the posts will be sporadic. I have taken heed with the threads Bill has posted from the DHS insider and combined with other endeavors and living almost totally self sufficient I have very little free time. But I feel driven to try to communicate why my views seem so opposite and controversial.

Also, I apologize because what I hear in my head and heart and trying to communicate this in written form and on a forum is very difficult for me. I am more than often misunderstood.

The following is a response from the thread I started this thread from . . . . .


Evidentally you have zero interest in researching what you're posting ... the most trivial effort would have revealed the gender of Vandana Shiva of India.

Paul, evidently you have failed to read many of my posts since I have been an active member on Avalon.

I have been researching, studying and practically applying organic, conventional and corporate farming and gardeing methods since the 80’s and actually since childhood since I grew up in a family that literally grew every mouthful of food.

No, I didn’t take what little time to go to vandana shiva sites. Although I took the time this morning to make sure there was no new research or information . . . .and there wasn’t . . . the same (valuable) info on gmo’s and biotechnology.

I have read and researched and applied this topic for over 20 years now.

Regarding heyokah #10 post on Jeffery Smith. I have been a financially supporting member of The Institute for Responsible Technology since its inception. I have read and sold (in my herbal shop and organic farms) Jeffery Smith’s books and dvd’s. I bought his workshop program so I could teach his information to my community and surrounding area and did so until I left Kansas and moved back to the Appalachians and at great personal financial expense.

Heyokah’s information is old and much is outdated especially the information about where to buy non-gmo food. Those companies (many not all) were thoroughly researched a few years ago and actually much of this was posted on Avalon. Many of these companies are easily traced back to ConAgra and other Monsanto subsidiaries. They are not gmo free food and are only very smart and deceptive marketing corporations.


I find it unconscionable that any member, here at Avalon, would support the agenda of Monsanto.

I am not supporting the agendas of either view because they are both flawed . . .I am striving constantly to find and maintain balance and clarity.


I oppose your continuing support of these lies here

I am 100% well aware and versed on the material that you (Paul) and Dennis and others are posting and agree with it (for the most part). But it is information and research that I studied in great depth MANY years ago.

You and Dennis and many others on this topic (I feel) are extremely polarized and not balanced on this massively important topic. Again . . . you are where I was about 10 years ago. Horrified, angry, frustrated scared, victimized, apathetic, and unreasonable.

Since my 180, I have worked steadily to remove my emotions and anger and have been for the last 2 or more years working hard to become more balanced and pragmatic. Through this journey a whole new understanding of our future has opened for me. Actually where I am today in my spirituality, knowledge and wisdom is a result of those encounters from my childhood.

In order for humanity to be able to achieve a future that we see exampled in Star Trek or The Venus Project it will be through fringe cutting edge science and technology.

This type of rapid advancement is not without many problems, struggles, angst and collateral damage. A VERY hard truth and reality. But what choice do we have?? Do we just sit on our collective assess and do nothing? Or I know!! we can wait for aliens to come down and hand over futuristic technology.

Those of us who are TRULY awake and see what the road ahead is fraught can adapt and prepare and teach. We will be the ones who provide a harbor during the next very turbulent, traumatic years . . . . until we get to that beautiful abundant world we desire and that the cutting edge science and technology of Monsanto and other wealthy corporations are providing.

It is up to each and every one of us (personally) to responsibly understand the good and bad of this journey humanity on a global scale is pioneering. Understand it. Make your choice. Prepare and adapt to make your road easier and healthier for yourself and those around you. The other choice is to suffer and be filled with anger, bitterness and hatred in what you feel is an attack on you personally.

And Paul . . . after reading this post (and thread) of mine and perhaps trying a little harder to understand where I am coming from you will understand me a bit more. I am NOT the average Avalon member . . . .I choose . . . do I just go along with the EASY general flow of Avalon and not make a difference or do I stand up for what I see and feel is Truth and what can actually make a difference.

Do I go along in the same sleepy rut as everyone else or do I attempt to knock a few out of this rut that is leading to the edge of a cliff?

If not and you still oppose who I am as a thinking, pragmatic, contributing human being and member of Project Avalon . . . .well then . . . . . you can push that magic admin eject button and unsubscribe me.

[ThePythonicCow]

blufire -- Did you listen to the Youtube video I linked in Seeds of Death: Unveiling The Lies of GMO's - Full Movie - Post #42 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59447-Seeds-of-Death-Unveiling-The-Lies-of-GMO-s-Full-Movie&p=684803&viewfull=1#post684803):


oPvkZv5MfRw

It is excellent, in my view.

The lies, fraud, and deceit from Monsanto and such need to stop.

===

Regarding Vandana Shiva of India, did it feel right to you to spend a couple of paragraphs slamming her work ... without one lick of effort to look at it first? I followed up (here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59447-Seeds-of-Death-Unveiling-The-Lies-of-GMO-s-Full-Movie&p=684803&viewfull=1#post684803)) by noting where your comments substantially misrepresented her work, but I hear no recognition of your noticing that.

I do not object to others taking controversial positions, just on that account. It is a potential misdirection to suggest otherwise.

I made no threat to seek a punitive action from the moderation team; it was you who mentioned that, perhaps in an effort to garner a sympathy vote.

Your many years of research into this topic, and your previous willingness to make a 180 degree change in your views, are both wonderful; but if you think that these excuse you from considering further evidence, then ... I can not join you in that position.

A useful discussion on GMO's involves considering the views and evidence presented by others, back and forth, not an indignant defense of the moral superiority of one's own past record, not an indignant insinuation of potential discrimination against members on account of their holding controversial views, and not claims of indisputable knowledge due to past research, prior income levels, or bold life style changes.

[Sierra]

. . . .again . . .. it is literally impossible to grow food organically or even naturally few millions of people.

Nonsense. Not true. We've done it for millennia. Monsanto has only been around since my parent's generation, and they'd cheer (from the board chairman to the lowliest stock holder) to hear people think we need them (like a hole in the head).

Scarcity is a manufactured commodity, used to control and kill, and GMOs weaken and kill (Somewhere on Avalon, someone posted a comparison of mice fed real food, and mice fed GMO food. Stunted, runted, and not in good shape if eating GMO foods.) GMO causes Celiac disease in humans, eats away at the gut.

We are perfectly capable of feeding the world organically, if we put our money or *had* our money to put where needed.

And Monsanto has been caught out in so many lies, so many sleazy tactics at this point, that they get special treatment from the government, a bill of their very own, that GMO does not have to be labeled as GMO, so it can be hidden from all consumers. Now how is that honest, fair or leads one to think that GMO is good for us? The US government doing something good for us? Non-members of the military-industrial complex? (laughing because if I don't, I'll cry.)

Sierra's .02

[blufire]

Paul, did you read my opening post all or any of my posts?

YES! YES! YES! I have seen all of Jeffery’s videos . . .read his books . . . taught his Seeds of Deception workshops . . . I have even corresponded with him personally when I was first teaching his work . . . I have been researching this since the 80’s.

Not ONLY the material from the researchers against all gmo’s and related technology but researchers who are from the ‘other side’ whose research is just as valid as to why at this time we (globally) need this technology.

I have worked side by side with organic, conventional (farmers who farm 500 acres and less) AND corporate farmers (farmers who farm over 500 acres with only Monsanto type technology). I have formed relationships with them, listened to them, understood why they farm as they do. And many listened to me as an organic and natural farmer. I have had conventional farmer friends come to my farm and help me cultivate and harvest because it reminds them of when they were younger.

I apologize if you feel I slammed Vandana Shiva's work. I do not mean to. It is literally because I have read hundreds of the like in the past 20+ years. It is old outdated information to me. I am sorry. It would be like me trying to explain computer technology to you.

To use an example to put our ‘butting of heads’ into perspective. When you or Dennis or other members talk about gmo technology it is like me talking to you about computer technology from the perspective when computers filled entire warehouses.

I am past the knowledge and information of the pitfalls and problems of genetically modified organisms. Information from both sides is melded together in my mind and understanding now.

So maybe we could start with one element that could help pull this topic into a balanced understanding?

[Sierra]

No, I didn’t take what little time to go to vandana shiva sites. Although I took the time this morning to make sure there was no new research or information . . . .and there wasn’t . . . the same (valuable) info on gmo’s and biotechnology.

I have read and researched and applied this topic for over 20 years now.

Snip

... until we get to that beautiful abundant world we desire and that the cutting edge science and technology of Monsanto and other wealthy corporations are providing.

Well, if you are not reading what has been discovered more recently than 20 years ago ... perhaps you are behind the times?

Monsanto and other wealthy corporations are providing depopulation tools, not a beautiful abundant world.

Celiac disease is disgusting. And apparently there is an epidemic of it, for the first time since recorded history began. I wonder why? Gut... food ... GMO food ... gut... I see a direct relationship.

Sierra

[gripreaper]

So maybe we could start with one element that could help pull this topic into a balanced understanding?

So, what is the context? Are we postulating that it is impossible to feed 7 billion people without GMO? Are we saying that GMO is not harmful, or marginally so and that these marginally harmful effects are justifiable based on the need to generate enough food for 7 billion people (and counting)? Are we saying that organic farming is too tedious and does not provide sufficient benefit to be pursued by farmers, both commercial over 500 acres, or under?

In regards to the larger context, the ability to become more self reliant, more self responsible, and more self determined, I would postulate that very few here at Avalon would challenge such notions. The movement towards a more balanced spiritual perspective is universal here.

Bluefire should be commended for that, as she "walks the walk" and not just talks the talk. Her delivery could use some "tweaking" IMHO though.

[ThePythonicCow]

Paul, did you read my opening post all or any of my posts?

YES! YES! YES! I have seen all of Jeffery’s videos . . .read his books . . . taught his Seeds of Deception workshops . . . I have even corresponded with him personally when I was first teaching his work . . . I have been researching this since the 80’s.
So far as I can tell, there is exactly one post ever on this forum in which you have mentioned Jeffery Smith, prior to today.

That post was on Sept 15, 2012, in Post #7 of Is This Why the Europeans Don't Get Sick Like Americans Do? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?49816-Genetic-Roulette-The-Documented-Health-Risks-of-Genetically-Engineered-Foods&p=553905&viewfull=1#post553905):



I have always been a huge advocate of Jeffery Smith and all his research . . . even bought and taught his workshops for a few years.

But . . . I am beginning to see things from a very different angle the last few months and my angle makes more sense to me than trying to believe there was some sort of evil plan in why ‘they’ would drench us in GMO’s since the early 90’s.

My (possibly insincere) apologies for not remembering that post earlier and for not correctly deducing from that post that you had already listened to the video of his that I linked above.

Of course, since you are such an expert in his work, and even taught it yourself in the past, it would be easy for you to examine it in detail and show numerous examples of where his work is misleading.

... too bad you have to deal with such numskulls who are incapable of understanding such evidence and gaining the new insights that you have obtained over this last year.

</sarcasm>

[blufire]

. . . .again . . .. it is literally impossible to grow food organically or even naturally few millions of people.

Nonsense. Not true. We've done it for millennia. Monsanto has only been around since my parent's generation, and they'd cheer (from the board chairman to the lowliest stock holder) to hear people think we need them (like a hole in the head).

Scarcity is a manufactured commodity, used to control and kill, and GMOs weaken and kill (Somewhere on Avalon, someone posted a comparison of mice fed real food, and mice fed GMO food. Stunted, runted, and not in good shape if eating GMO foods.) GMO causes Celiac disease in humans, eats away at the gut.

We are perfectly capable of feeding the world organically, if we put our money or *had* our money to put where needed.

And Monsanto has been caught out in so many lies, so many sleazy tactics at this point, that they get special treatment from the government, a bill of their very own, that GMO does not have to be labeled as GMO, so it can be hidden from all consumers. Now how is that honest, fair or leads one to think that GMO is good for us? The US government doing something good for us? Non-members of the military-industrial complex? (laughing because if I don't, I'll cry.)

Sierra's .02



Nonsense. Not true. We've done it for millennia. Monsanto has only been around since my parent's generation, and they'd cheer (from the board chairman to the lowliest stock holder) to hear people think we need them (like a hole in the head)

We have? We have farmed for millions organically or naturally? Do you know and understanding farming methods for those who farm over 500 acres? Do you know how many hours it takes to plant, cultivate, maintain and harvest even 40 acres? I do . . . did it for years.

Those of you who grow garden plots. You know how many hours you spend in that garden. Endless long hot hours making sure your garden has everything it needs to grow and be plentiful. Okay now apply this to 1 acre . . . 40 acres . . . 200 acres and then 1,000’s and 10’s of 1,000’s of acres.


Scarcity is a manufactured commodity, used to control and kill, and GMOs weaken and kill (Somewhere on Avalon, someone posted a comparison of mice fed real food, and mice fed GMO food. Stunted, runted, and not in good shape if eating GMO foods.) GMO causes Celiac disease in humans, eats away at the gut.

Yes, many of these health issues surrounding gmo’s are a reality for many. But they are also over exaggerated. Because if all the information about how gmo’s kill everything and everybody were absolutely true . . . well then billions of people would be dead right now . . . including most of the people on this forum.


We are perfectly capable of feeding the world organically, if we put our money or *had* our money to put where needed.

Show me how this would be true . . . practically. Where is or who is producing this type of technology so farmers can logically farm hundreds of millions of acres within a season of growing weather. All billionaires are not evil maniacal reptilians or are you saying anyone who is wealthy and a philanthropist are evil, maniacal, murdering reptilians?


And Monsanto has been caught out in so many lies, so many sleazy tactics at this point, that they get special treatment from the government, a bill of their very own, that GMO does not have to be labeled as GMO, so it can be hidden from all consumers. Now how is that honest, fair or leads one to think that GMO is good for us? The US government doing something good for us? Non-members of the military-industrial complex? (laughing because if I don't, I'll cry.)Sierra's .02

Yep they sure have. The globalists are working over time now to bring us into a one world government. Bill’s threads from the DHS insider are dead on and I take heed of what he is saying.

We are going global whether we like it or not.

The difference is what will that global world look like when all the traumatic dust settles in 20 or 50 years. I see that it will be the world of abundance and equality (mostly) . . . because this is what I was shown many years ago..

And please I ask if you are going to quote me then please do not take one small sentence from the whole that explained what I said.. It is easy to take things out of context in an emotionally charged topic such as this.

[jiminii]

So maybe we could start with one element that could help pull this topic into a balanced understanding?

So, what is the context? Are we postulating that it is impossible to feed 7 billion people without GMO? Are we saying that GMO is not harmful, or marginally so and that these marginally harmful effects are justifiable based on the need to generate enough food for 7 billion people (and counting)? Are we saying that organic farming is too tedious and does not provide sufficient benefit to be pursued by farmers, both commercial over 500 acres, or under?

In regards to the larger context, the ability to become more self reliant, more self responsible, and more self determined, I would postulate that very few here at Avalon would challenge such notions. The movement towards a more balanced spiritual perspective is universal here.

Bluefire should be commended for that, as she "walks the walk" and not just talks the talk. Her delivery could use some "tweaking" IMHO though.

thailand is not a GMO approved country ,,,

when I first went there I was taken to someone's house .. that man sends more than 100 million tons of rice out a month to other countries like japan and China that need rice ... and Thailand is the size of california .. and you are saying that the midwest can not make enough rice or grain for 7 million people when Thailand that even has flooding problems .. a lot of the times can support china and japan and other countries ..

they must really be feeding you full of lies .. all the reports of Monsanto in South america destroying the land and children walking over in the fields dying or having a lot of infections from just touching the GMO plants there ... better check out what Monsanto is letting you know what they do .. and go compare what they are actually delivering to other countries.

jim

[blufire]

Paul, did you read my opening post all or any of my posts?

YES! YES! YES! I have seen all of Jeffery’s videos . . .read his books . . . taught his Seeds of Deception workshops . . . I have even corresponded with him personally when I was first teaching his work . . . I have been researching this since the 80’s.
So far as I can tell, there is exactly one post ever on this forum in which you have mentioned Jeffery Smith, prior to today.

That post was on Sept 15, 2012, in Post #7 of Is This Why the Europeans Don't Get Sick Like Americans Do? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?49816-Genetic-Roulette-The-Documented-Health-Risks-of-Genetically-Engineered-Foods&p=553905&viewfull=1#post553905):



I have always been a huge advocate of Jeffery Smith and all his research . . . even bought and taught his workshops for a few years.

But . . . I am beginning to see things from a very different angle the last few months and my angle makes more sense to me than trying to believe there was some sort of evil plan in why ‘they’ would drench us in GMO’s since the early 90’s.

My (possibly insincere) apologies for not remembering that post earlier and for not correctly deducing from that post that you had already listened to the video of his that I linked above.

Of course, since you are such an expert in his work, and even taught it yourself in the past, it would be easy for you to examine it in detail and show numerous examples of where his work is misleading.

... too bad you have to deal with such numskulls who are incapable of understanding such evidence and gaining the new insights that you have obtained over this last year.

</sarcasm>


okay. leaving this one alone.

[ThePythonicCow]

And please I ask if you are going to quote me then please do not take one small sentence from the whole that explained what I said.. It is easy to take things out of context in an emotionally charged topic such as this.
Well, it wasn't just any "small sentence". It was, to quote your own words (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59447-Seeds-of-Death-Unveiling-The-Lies-of-GMO-s-Full-Movie&p=684555&viewfull=1#post684555), your "main point", and it was, by my reading, one if not the main point that you put forth that actually pertained to GMO foods and the feeding of humanity, rather than the various concerns with our respective backgrounds and expertise.

I trust you accept some of the responsibility for the emotional charge of this discussion, since you are, by any account, a responsible individual.

[gripreaper]

And please I ask if you are going to quote me then please do not take one small sentence from the whole that explained what I said.. It is easy to take things out of context in an emotionally charged topic such as this.

The OP was not very succinct and clear to me as to context and intent. This is how threads get derailed, go all over the place and get emotional. If you really do want a healthy dialogue, start with your postulates, make them very succinct and clear, and THEN I'll stay on those and not move off them until I am sufficiently in alignment, or decide I am not in alignment, at which time I will exit the thread.

You have taken on a formidable task! Either way, you will get my respect.

[blufire]

No, I didn’t take what little time to go to vandana shiva sites. Although I took the time this morning to make sure there was no new research or information . . . .and there wasn’t . . . the same (valuable) info on gmo’s and biotechnology.

I have read and researched and applied this topic for over 20 years now.

Snip

... until we get to that beautiful abundant world we desire and that the cutting edge science and technology of Monsanto and other wealthy corporations are providing.

Well, if you are not reading what has been discovered more recently than 20 years ago ... perhaps you are behind the times?

Monsanto and other wealthy corporations are providing depopulation tools, not a beautiful abundant world.

Celiac disease is disgusting. And apparently there is an epidemic of it, for the first time since recorded history began. I wonder why? Gut... food ... GMO food ... gut... I see a direct relationship.

Sierra


It is continued studying, research and application from all angles.

And yes Celiacs diseases is very ugly and can be contributed directly to gmo food.

Which is why as an herbalist and organic grower I studied and learned how to heal this side effect of gmo food.

So if we completely take away all gmo food and products that is currently in production and distribution in the world what do you see happening?

I mean literally what would logically happen? Talk about depopulation!

What do we do or what is being done to solve this dilemma?

[Sierra]

Scarcity is a manufactured commodity, used to control and kill, and GMOs weaken and kill (Somewhere on Avalon, someone posted a comparison of mice fed real food, and mice fed GMO food. Stunted, runted, and not in good shape if eating GMO foods.) GMO causes Celiac disease in humans, eats away at the gut.

We are perfectly capable of feeding the world organically, if we put our money or *had* our money to put where needed.

And Monsanto has been caught out in so many lies, so many sleazy tactics at this point, that they get special treatment from the government, a bill of their very own, that GMO does not have to be labeled as GMO, so it can be hidden from all consumers. Now how is that honest, fair or leads one to think that GMO is good for us? The US government doing something good for us? Non-members of the military-industrial complex? (laughing because if I don't, I'll cry.)

Sierra's .02

Yep they sure have. The globalists are working over time now to bring us into a one world government. Bill’s threads from the DHS insider are dead on and I take heed of what he is saying.

We are going global whether we like it or not.

The difference is what will that global world look like when all the traumatic dust settles in 20 or 50 years. I see that it will be the world of abundance and equality (mostly) . . . because this is what I was shown many years ago..

And please I ask if you are going to quote me then please do not take one small sentence from the whole that explained what I said.. It is easy to take things out of context in an emotionally charged topic such as this.

Well Bluefire, I don't see myself as taking things out of context. Just pointing out fallacies. And again, you are talking about one of the most evil and government supported let's_depopulate_the_planet industries out there. Back in the 50s, walking by the river where Monsanto's effluvium is dumped, one Avalon member stated one constantly came across bunny corpses. Utterly preserved and non-rotting bunny corpses. Ick. This is not beautiful or abundant or healthy for Mother Earth.

I'd rather my corpse rotted back into the ground. Without Celiac disease, please.

Perhaps an examination/review of your sources that showed you this many years ago? Again? Timelines change according to the collective will, and the collective will seems to be yelling at the 1% to cut it out with the Poison-Death-Destruction-depopulation paradigm, to which Monsanto is a key player in the deployment of.

Sierra

[ThePythonicCow]

okay. leaving this one alone.
So ... have you actually listened to that video I linked?

Since your previous claim above in your "YES! YES! YES!" post that I should have realized from your "opening post" or any of your past posts that you had listened to that video, and more or less all videos, of Jeffery Smith, appears to be false, I am back asking that key question.

It really is a good video, and quite persuasively catalogs the many deceits and deep fraud of Monsanto.

I recommend it to anyone interested in this topic.

Having listened to it, can you explain, in some detail, how he gets it so wrong? Or do you still agree with him that the depth and breath of Monsanto's deceit and fraud boggles the imagination?

[ThePythonicCow]

So if we completely take away all gmo food and products that is currently in production and distribution in the world what do you see happening?

I mean literally what would logically happen? Talk about depopulation!

What do we do or what is being done to solve this dilemma?

We are not advocating taking away all the food suddenly. That is a red herring.

We are advocating taking away the lies, exposing the deceit and fraud.

Then we will be in a position to understand what is going on, and how we can dismantle that which we realize should not continue.

[Sierra]

It is continued studying, research and application from all angles.

And yes Celiacs diseases is very ugly and can be contributed directly to gmo food.

Which is why as an herbalist and organic grower I studied and learned how to heal this side effect of gmo food.

So if we completely take away all gmo food and products that is currently in production and distribution in the world what do you see happening?

I mean literally what would logically happen? Talk about depopulation!

What do we do or what is being done to solve this dilemma?

I see GMO crop land cleaned and repurposed to grow healthy organic food that does not have dangerous side effects deliberately built into its structure. That is the reason GMO is hated.

Now GMO does not have to be poisonous perhaps ... but it is, because that is the way it was made. It is a depopulation tool, supported by the PTB.

[Bill Ryan]

------

I'm willing to talk with most people about most things, but interfering with nature in the way promoted by Monsanto is non-negotiably unconscionable.

The problem of [apparent] food shortage in the world is all about logistics and economics and agendas -- not genetics.

Problem --> reaction --> solution. People buying into these 'solutions' as the only way forward have been manipulated by the dialectic.

[naste.de.lumina]

Monsanto may be nice and send along with the sellers of poison, one a list of doctors trained by her to handle this
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/media/ALeqM5ipJ-oO7YhenbI1L0YhOSA7gfRXRA?docId=photo_1348660367105-1-0&size=l

[blufire]

And please I ask if you are going to quote me then please do not take one small sentence from the whole that explained what I said.. It is easy to take things out of context in an emotionally charged topic such as this.

The OP was not very succinct and clear to me as to context and intent. This is how threads get derailed, go all over the place and get emotional. If you really do want a healthy dialogue, start with your postulates, make them very succinct and clear, and THEN I'll stay on those and not move off them until I am sufficiently in alignment, or decide I am not in alignment, at which time I will exit the thread.

Either way, you will get my respect.


I wasn’t talking about your post gripreaper I was talking about Sierra’s one liner in my response to her post.

I appreciate very much your support and valiant attempt at understanding me.

I am well aware I need tweaking in how I post and respond and very open to guidance,

I am also aware that this thread could be my last attempt at making a difference here on Avalon.

I feel I have valuable insight and understanding and have been very reluctant because of many reasons to share.


pos•tu•late

Suggest or assume the existence, fact, or truth of (something) as a basis for reasoning, discussion, or belief.

Noun
A thing suggested or assumed as true as the basis for reasoning, discussion, or belief.

Synonyms
demand - require - claim - posit

Okay. Thanks for direction.

A beginning postulate could be . . . . . If you remove all peripheral emotional information . . . Where is the billions of tons of grains and legumes (wheat, rice, corn, soy beans etc) produced annually and globally and that feeds every nation throughout the world coming from?

[Sierra]

A beginning postulate could be . . . . . If you remove all peripheral emotional information . . . Where is the billions of tons of grains and legumes (wheat, rice, corn, soy beans etc) produced annually and globally and that feeds every nation throughout the world coming from?

I think it is sort of like programming. Garbage in, then garbage out. What you sow, is what you reap. We don't have to put garbage in Mother Earth, courtesy of Monsanto and GMO.

[ThePythonicCow]

A beginning postulate could be . . . . . If you remove all peripheral emotional information . . . Where is the billions of tons of grains and legumes (wheat, rice, corn, soy beans etc) produced annually and globally and that feeds every nation throughout the world coming from?
Well, that's a question, not a postulate :).

But, putting that detail aside, a substantial portion of the world's food is currently coming from crops grown using the seed and pesticide technology of Monsanto and allied companies, yes.

So ?

[gripreaper]

Okay. Thanks for direction.

A beginning postulate could be . . . . . If you remove all peripheral emotional information . . . Where is the billions of tons of grains and legumes (wheat, rice, corn, soy beans etc) produced annually and globally and that feeds every nation throughout the world coming from?

A postulate would be: Monsanto directly feeds most of the people on this planet, and without their support, there would not be enough food to sustain 7 billion people. There is no other alternative to this claim.

Then, I would expect links and supporting evidence to back up this postulate. Then, I can go to those links, watch the video's and do my own research, so that I can take all of the available evidence and challenge it, support it, or reject it out of hand, using research, links, video's and evidence to support my counter thesis.

Yet, the onus is on you blufire to provide the necessary corroborating evidence to support your thesis. Afterall, this is your thread.

[phillipbbg]

"learned how to heal this side effect of gmo food. "

You can't HEAL a side effect. you need to discover and treat the CAUSE to PREVENT the side effect. All you do by treating the side effect is conceal the true cause or ILLNESS. YOU ARE NOT HEALING

This is a huge problem in modern society that has become addicted to the sensation of symptom removal (masking) methods through Pharmacology and the continued distancing from HEALING.

Please if you are going to make medical claims choose your words carefully.

[ulli]

I
I am not supporting the agendas of either view because they are both flawed . . .I am striving constantly to find and maintain balance and clarity.


I oppose your continuing support of these lies here

I am 100% well aware and versed on the material that you (Paul) and Dennis and others are posting and agree with it (for the most part). But it is information and research that I studied in great depth MANY years ago.

You and Dennis and many others on this topic (I feel) are extremely polarized and not balanced on this massively important topic. Again . . . you are where I was about 10 years ago. Horrified, angry, frustrated scared, victimized, apathetic, and unreasonable.

Since my 180, I have worked steadily to remove my emotions and anger and have been for the last 2 or more years working hard to become more balanced and pragmatic. Through this journey a whole new understanding of our future has opened for me. Actually where I am today in my spirituality, knowledge and wisdom is a result of those encounters from my childhood.

In order for humanity to be able to achieve a future that we see exampled in Star Trek or The Venus Project it will be through fringe cutting edge science and technology.

This type of rapid advancement is not without many problems, struggles, angst and collateral damage. A VERY hard truth and reality. But what choice do we have?? Do we just sit on our collective assess and do nothing? Or I know!! we can wait for aliens to come down and hand over futuristic technology.

Those of us who are TRULY awake and see what the road ahead is fraught can adapt and prepare and teach. We will be the ones who provide a harbor during the next very turbulent, traumatic years . . . . until we get to that beautiful abundant world we desire and that the cutting edge science and technology of Monsanto and other wealthy corporations are providing.

It is up to each and every one of us (personally) to responsibly understand the good and bad of this journey humanity on a global scale is pioneering. Understand it. Make your choice. Prepare and adapt to make your road easier and healthier for yourself and those around you. The other choice is to suffer and be filled with anger, bitterness and hatred in what you feel is an attack on you personally.

And Paul . . . after reading this post (and thread) of mine and perhaps trying a little harder to understand where I am coming from you will understand me a bit more. I am NOT the average Avalon member . . . .I choose . . . do I just go along with the EASY general flow of Avalon and not make a difference or do I stand up for what I see and feel is Truth and what can actually make a difference.

Do I go along in the same sleepy rut as everyone else or do I attempt to knock a few out of this rut that is leading to the edge of a cliff?

If not and you still oppose who I am as a thinking, pragmatic, contributing human being and member of Project Avalon . . . .well then . . . . . you can push that magic admin eject button and unsubscribe me.

Excusing one cliff edge for another is what I believe caused this to become a controversial dialogue.
But then you did admit yourself that you open yourself to misunderstandings.
If I may say so....personal motives need to be examined carefully here.

There is a give-away in your comment above...which I have bolded, and which tell me that your expertise in farming
has made you vulnerable to not quite seeing the forest for the trees. There is such a thing as having too much knowledge.

What you perceive as "rapid advancement" could perhaps be an indication of your own spiritual surges at this time,
but instead of rising into an investigation of these inner processes as something that is happening to you on a personal level,
you project them out and perceive a controversial duality. Namely that of an anti-scientific solution movement versus big mass feeding solutions as were proposed by Monsanto.

Yet the anti GMO agenda movement is an alarm call and awakening to the huge corporate schemes
which were never disclosed in a transparent manner, have hidden objectives,
and are actually stimulating the possibly erroneous idea of "rapid advancement" of the planet today.

Slowing matters down again to nature's way of operation is an idea who's time has come,
at least until more is known and openly shared.
Showing people how to grow their own food on roof tops or vertical farms, if necessary,
that would be a better way to go than patenting seeds, and leaving indebted farmers destitute.

However, I do appreciate that you continue to question these issues.

[Hervé]

The crux of the matter coasted along with the industrial "revolution," that is, the manufacturing of products at low cost... forcing an economy on the artisans and craft people to "help" them disappear...

The above didn't get lost to the Rockefeller/Rothschild clique who followed through with getting rid of the "shopkeepers" with WW I & II. Forcing Russia to produce at lower costs than anybody else to bankrupt other nations... now it's happening with China.

Rockefeller also arm-twisted Stalin into selling Russia's crops at below market price... Holodomor ensuing... as well as the demise of small farmers who didn't follow the "economic" scheme of industrial farming driven by manipulated market prices.

So... here we are now... with a cabal driven Monsanto getting rid of the last significant land-owners and feeders of the world... and with the "help" of weather manipulations.

See this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43793-Drake-Updates-clarifications-and-more&p=513749&viewfull=1#post513749) <--- , this one (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51259-What-is-the-bigger-picture&p=573691&viewfull=1#post573691) <--- , this other one (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?24873-Jacob-Schiff-Ordered-Czar-Nicholas-II-s-Murder&p=260553&viewfull=1#post260553) <--- and this one (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?25102-For-an-idea-on-the-big-picture&p=262218&viewfull=1#post262218) <---

The underlying, fundamental scheme in all of these is: "Get rid of the competitors."

[ThePythonicCow]

The above didn't get lost to the Rockefeller/Rothschild clique who followed through with getting rid of the "shopkeepers" with WW I & II. Forcing Russia to produce at lower costs than anybody else to bankrupt other nations... now it's happening with China.

Rockefeller also arm-twisted Stalin into selling Russia's crops at below market price... Holodomor ensuing... as well as the demise of small farmers who didn't follow the "economic" scheme of industrial farming driven by manipulated market prices.
From what I hear, they also did it earlier with the US midwest, in the late 1800's. Once sufficient rail, canals (the Erie canal), and shipping were in place, the lower cost wheat and corn from the American farmer put many a small European farmer out of business. It was the money of families such as Gould, Harriman, Hill, and Vanderbilt who built that transportation network. The infamous Robber Barons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_%28industrialist%29).

[blufire]

I can see the utter and complete futility of this thread.

We are all programmed and brainwashed and this colors every step we take along the journey.

Some are able to see bits of this colored programmed journey and begin to form new ideologies and philosophies.

Some have experiences from other lifetimes or encounters that change their entire view of the future and understanding of the past.

Some even manage to balance and put into proper perspective these new ideologies, philosophies, knowing and encounters.

I have come to believe I am one of these people. The odd thing is I don’t want to be one of these people.

I . . . .don’t . . . want . . . it

I have tried many years to reject and ignore who I am and the encounters I had as a child and teenager and now it appears as a 55 year old. Because I am remembering what I was shown and told in those long ago encounters.

So what do I do?

Do I just sit here in these beautiful magical mountains knowing what we as humanity are facing and what the future holds? Or do I share what I feel I know and have been shown?

Why would I share what I have been shown here on this forum? I have seen how others have been treated when they do. They come and share their knowledge and knowings and they are torn to shreds and rejected.

This is why I have not been very forthcoming.

That and because of the very polarized, negative, fearful and misconceived understanding and view of certain Beings.

So you guys tell me . . . . do I share what I have been shown regarding our future.

Do I tell you about the encounters I had as a child?

Do I subject myself to the same abuse as I have seen heaped on others?

Are we ready and willing to acknowledge what our future holds and meet it head on with brave fearless resolve and purpose?

Are we ready and willing to find possible solutions not only for ourselves, community but more importantly the rest of humanity?

Because if we don’t begin now with creating the future the future will continue to be created without our influence and voice.


I . . . don’t . . want . . . . it. . . .

There is a huge part of me that simply wants to forget again. But ‘they’ won’t let me and actually never have. I have never been at peace in my entire lifetime until I returned to the mountains and began my journey of remembering. I am being pushed to share . . . but with whom do I share?

This forum? . . . another forum?. . . or do I wait and share (as I have been) with people brought into my life.

You tell me Avalon.

[william r sanford72]

No one who loves their fellow man. the land.or earth can say with all truth of soul.with there heart and soul to guide them. can condone what is being done to the planet.monsanto is a part of this agenda..outright murder of life.no words exist to bend this truth.none.Zero.no words exist to hide this truth.and shame on those who Try.

[Christine]

I can see the utter and complete futility of this thread.

We are all programmed and brainwashed and this colors every step we take along the journey.

Some are able to see bits of this colored programmed journey and begin to form new ideologies and philosophies.

Some have experiences from other lifetimes or encounters that change their entire view of the future and understanding of the past.

Some even manage to balance and put into proper perspective these new ideologies, philosophies, knowing and encounters.

I have come to believe I am one of these people. The odd thing is I don’t want to be one of these people.

I . . . .don’t . . . want . . . it

I have tried many years to reject and ignore who I am and the encounters I had as a child and teenager and now it appears as a 55 year old. Because I am remembering what I was shown and told in those long ago encounters.

So what do I do?

Do I just sit here in these beautiful magical mountains knowing what we as humanity are facing and what the future holds? Or do I share what I feel I know and have been shown?

Why would I share what I have been shown here on this forum? I have seen how others have been treated when they do. They come and share their knowledge and knowings and they are torn to shreds and rejected.

This is why I have not been very forthcoming.

That and because of the very polarized, negative, fearful and misconceived understanding and view of certain Beings.

So you guys tell me . . . . do I share what I have been shown regarding our future.

Do I tell you about the encounters I had as a child?

Do I subject myself to the same abuse as I have seen heaped on others?

Are we ready and willing to acknowledge what our future holds and meet it head on with brave fearless resolve and purpose?

Are we ready and willing to find possible solutions not only for ourselves, community but more importantly the rest of humanity?

Because if we don’t begin now with creating the future the future will continue to be created without our influence and voice.


I . . . don’t . . want . . . . it. . . .

There is a huge part of me that simply wants to forget again. But ‘they’ won’t let me and actually never have. I have never been at peace in my entire lifetime until I returned to the mountains and began my journey of remembering. I am being pushed to share . . . but with whom do I share?

This forum? . . . another forum?. . . or do I wait and share (as I have been) with people brought into my life.

You tell me Avalon.

You are not alone blufire ... ... you are an unique being as each and everyone of us are. Each of us with our own vision, our own frustrations and above all a deep desire to create a sustainable future earth together.

Speak and listen... In communion there is no division or lack of understanding.

[gripreaper]

I say, I will hold a safe space for you. I sensed in the opening post that, although the idea of feeding 7 billion people and how we do that without going against nature, is the catalyst for something else.

We all are an amalgamation of all of our lives, and we have a story to share, an experience unique to us, which (this is just a gut assumption) I have sensed all along that there is more to the story with you and that you want to share it. Avalon is just such a place. Yes, we are a tough crowd, but only because we have tough issues and we are all opening up to the full light of truth, within ourselves as well as the collective. This step, often times, pushes us to the extreme polarities just before the opening of a new paradigm, before we birth the next level of the collective dream we all agreed to when we descended into this density and incarnated into life on earth.

Bits and pieces of my story are written here, usually in obscure places and at unusual times, but those who have read my posts know it. You stood up blufire, to take on the challenge of testing the waters with one of the most heated and most controversial of subjects, the introduction of toxins into our food supply, the one thing which all humans find sacrosanct.

So, the postulate is Personal yes, as the OP says, most likely controversial with an element of tech and the globalists, but stepping back from the canvas and viewing the big picture through the lens of early childhood phenomenon that does not fit into the mainstream consciousness, is no reason to hold back here. We are all being called to do so at this time.

This is the energy permeating every cell of every being, even the plants and animals feel it. I say "go for it". Take the risk, tell us your story. Ask the mods to change the title of this thread if the focus has shifted. This is your platform and your thread. Take it wherever you want. I'll stand with you.

[Sidney]

No, I didn’t take what little time to go to vandana shiva sites. Although I took the time this morning to make sure there was no new research or information . . . .and there wasn’t . . . the same (valuable) info on gmo’s and biotechnology.

I have read and researched and applied this topic for over 20 years now.

Snip

... until we get to that beautiful abundant world we desire and that the cutting edge science and technology of Monsanto and other wealthy corporations are providing.

Well, if you are not reading what has been discovered more recently than 20 years ago ... perhaps you are behind the times?

Monsanto and other wealthy corporations are providing depopulation tools, not a beautiful abundant world.

Celiac disease is disgusting. And apparently there is an epidemic of it, for the first time since recorded history began. I wonder why? Gut... food ... GMO food ... gut... I see a direct relationship.

Sierra

There are many other things that happen to become epidemic in the last 15 years, related to gut, and FOOD. Lack of digestive enzymes,inability to digest food,GERD,sleep apnea (that has recently been linked with GERD, which is caused by no digestion, which is caused by no enzymes, because the enzymes are zapped by you guessed it, HERBACIDE + (GMO's). And that barely scratches the surface. You have the bees disappearing at an alarming rate, birds dying off, due to eating contaminated seeds, the crap leaches into the waterways, hence killing millions of fish, frogs and other aquatic creatures. Monsanto is literally extinguishing the fire of life on this planet.
Oh yeah, and didn't Obama just sign into law, total exemption of any liability from this corporation? It stinks.:nod:

[DeDukshyn]

I'm ready to barf .... seriously .. there is some sad things happening on planet earth and Monsanto is one of them (perhaps they tried to mean well while planning to provide a means for the elite to control every human on the plant ... does it matter? the road to hell is paved with "good intentions" of fools and it happens while people are looking only at those intentions and not at the whole picture.) The comment that one cannot grow food organically is both a lie, and a destructive lie. It has been proven time and time again, BTW I have a close friend who is a commercial agra farmer here in Canada. You should hear what he thinks about it .... From the horses mouth ..

If we get humans off our beef addiction, their sugar and simple starch addiction; just these two things alone could change the course of humanity. GMO is mostly popular because beef doesn't give a **** if you feed them horrific virus laden GMO soybeans. In fact let's cut down all the SA rainforest to plant GMO soybeans to feed cattle to feed our sick addictions.

Sorry blufire, you have some interesting posts but I really am getting a sour taste right now. I grew up on organic foods, all grown in my parents garden.
Let's just spread the case for growing your own food! What won't that solve?

Hint we got krill, billions of tons of the stuff ... we got bugs, tons of them. Vegetarians can move south and grow all their own food. Hell give me an aquarium I'll grow my own krill. The elite are only looking at how to keep "THEIR" paradigm going ... Not looking for the paradigm that allows the each to flourish.

Excuses can be powerful ... At the same time in slight support ... the "elite" haven't got ****ing clue what they are really doing ...

[DeDukshyn]

I
I am not supporting the agendas of either view because they are both flawed . . .I am striving constantly to find and maintain balance and clarity.


I oppose your continuing support of these lies here

I am 100% well aware and versed on the material that you (Paul) and Dennis and others are posting and agree with it (for the most part). But it is information and research that I studied in great depth MANY years ago.

You and Dennis and many others on this topic (I feel) are extremely polarized and not balanced on this massively important topic. Again . . . you are where I was about 10 years ago. Horrified, angry, frustrated scared, victimized, apathetic, and unreasonable.

Since my 180, I have worked steadily to remove my emotions and anger and have been for the last 2 or more years working hard to become more balanced and pragmatic. Through this journey a whole new understanding of our future has opened for me. Actually where I am today in my spirituality, knowledge and wisdom is a result of those encounters from my childhood.

In order for humanity to be able to achieve a future that we see exampled in Star Trek or The Venus Project it will be through fringe cutting edge science and technology.

This type of rapid advancement is not without many problems, struggles, angst and collateral damage. A VERY hard truth and reality. But what choice do we have?? Do we just sit on our collective assess and do nothing? Or I know!! we can wait for aliens to come down and hand over futuristic technology.

Those of us who are TRULY awake and see what the road ahead is fraught can adapt and prepare and teach. We will be the ones who provide a harbor during the next very turbulent, traumatic years . . . . until we get to that beautiful abundant world we desire and that the cutting edge science and technology of Monsanto and other wealthy corporations are providing.

It is up to each and every one of us (personally) to responsibly understand the good and bad of this journey humanity on a global scale is pioneering. Understand it. Make your choice. Prepare and adapt to make your road easier and healthier for yourself and those around you. The other choice is to suffer and be filled with anger, bitterness and hatred in what you feel is an attack on you personally.

And Paul . . . after reading this post (and thread) of mine and perhaps trying a little harder to understand where I am coming from you will understand me a bit more. I am NOT the average Avalon member . . . .I choose . . . do I just go along with the EASY general flow of Avalon and not make a difference or do I stand up for what I see and feel is Truth and what can actually make a difference.

Do I go along in the same sleepy rut as everyone else or do I attempt to knock a few out of this rut that is leading to the edge of a cliff?

If not and you still oppose who I am as a thinking, pragmatic, contributing human being and member of Project Avalon . . . .well then . . . . . you can push that magic admin eject button and unsubscribe me.

Excusing one cliff edge for another is what I believe caused this to become a controversial dialogue.
But then you did admit yourself that you open yourself to misunderstandings.
If I may say so....personal motives need to be examined carefully here.

There is a give-away in your comment above...which I have bolded, and which tell me that your expertise in farming
has made you vulnerable to not quite seeing the forest for the trees. There is such a thing as having too much knowledge.

What you perceive as "rapid advancement" could perhaps be an indication of your own spiritual surges at this time,
but instead of rising into an investigation of these inner processes as something that is happening to you on a personal level,
you project them out and perceive a controversial duality. Namely that of an anti-scientific solution movement versus big mass feeding solutions as were proposed by Monsanto.

Yet the anti GMO agenda movement is an alarm call and awakening to the huge corporate schemes
which were never disclosed in a transparent manner, have hidden objectives,
and are actually stimulating the possibly erroneous idea of "rapid advancement" of the planet today.

Slowing matters down again to nature's way of operation is an idea who's time has come,
at least until more is known and openly shared.
Showing people how to grow their own food on roof tops or vertical farms, if necessary,
that would be a better way to go than patenting seeds, and leaving indebted farmers destitute.

However, I do appreciate that you continue to question these issues.

Better put than I ever could have done (as is apparent ;))... Triple thanks ulli ;)

[DeDukshyn]

No, I didn’t take what little time to go to vandana shiva sites. Although I took the time this morning to make sure there was no new research or information . . . .and there wasn’t . . . the same (valuable) info on gmo’s and biotechnology.

I have read and researched and applied this topic for over 20 years now.

Snip

... until we get to that beautiful abundant world we desire and that the cutting edge science and technology of Monsanto and other wealthy corporations are providing.

Well, if you are not reading what has been discovered more recently than 20 years ago ... perhaps you are behind the times?

Monsanto and other wealthy corporations are providing depopulation tools, not a beautiful abundant world.

Celiac disease is disgusting. And apparently there is an epidemic of it, for the first time since recorded history began. I wonder why? Gut... food ... GMO food ... gut... I see a direct relationship.

Sierra

There are many other things that happen to become epidemic in the last 15 years, related to gut, and FOOD. Lack of digestive enzymes,inability to digest food,GERD,sleep apnea (that has recently been linked with GERD, which is caused by no digestion, which is caused by no enzymes, because the enzymes are zapped by you guessed it, HERBACIDE + (GMO's). And that barely scratches the surface. You have the bees disappearing at an alarming rate, birds dying off, due to eating contaminated seeds, the crap leaches into the waterways, hence killing millions of fish, frogs and other aquatic creatures. Monsanto is literally extinguishing the fire of life on this planet.
Oh yeah, and didn't Obama just sign into law, total exemption of any liability from this corporation? It stinks.:nod:

Much more info in this post than just a rant ... well said Sidney! and congrats on the position of mod in training! (Observerx19xx wasn't it?)

[ghostrider]

------

I'm willing to talk with most people about most things, but interfering with nature in the way promoted by Monsanto is non-negotiably unconscionable.

The problem of [apparent] food shortage in the world is all about logistics and economics and agendas -- not genetics.

Problem --> reaction --> solution. People buying into these 'solutions' as the only way forward have been manipulated by the dialectic.

dirty little secret is food is now the new gold and silver ... they sell food insurance now ...

[music]

This (below) (http://www.honeycolony.com/article/the-little-known-toxic-travesty-of-anniston-alabama/) is a snapshot of one small example of the kind of people we are dealing with. Monsanto is a keystone of the most heinous elements of the push for a new world order, and you have my love and compassion that you have allowed yourself to be so deceived by such a great and obvious evil. I come from many generations of farming stock, and I can tell you that the nature of the soil, the crops, the livestock, the pests, or the hardship of the natural environment was not what finally drove them from the land, neither was it the hard work, neither was it the inability to allow nature to do what nature does best. What makes farming unviable is government policy, and enforced downward price pressure from the large distributors of foodstuffs. So you have taken yourself to the land, and in a few years decided that you (and Monsanto) knows best. There are many people who have generations of time spent on the land who would disagree with you.

Some better ways of addressing the imagined "food shortfall" might be to eliminate western waste, and to adjust western diet so it is less meat reliant, and so less consumptive of resources. We might also like to eat food that has not come from soil soaked in "roundup", so that it retains the full complement of micro-nutrients. If we eat natural food, we require less of it - the only excess then comes from personal gluttony.

The article below is not about the danger of current Monsanto practices - that evidence is abundant. What this demonstrates is the kind of animal we are dealing with, one which you are obviously quite happy to "get into bed with". Again, all I can do is send you my love.

The Little Known Toxic Travesty Of Anniston, Alabama

By Amanda Beland, HoneyColony

Choccolocco Creek is known for its easy whitewater rafting, one of the world’s first hydroelectric dams, and a local resident who donned a cow skull and scared the hell out of passersby on nearby roads.

It’s less known for being a toxic waterway that turned fish into something much scarier than a half-man/half-cow.

In 1993, a local fisherman caught a severely deformed largemouth bass from Choccolocco Creek, and the truth finally burst into view: For more than 30 years, Monsanto—the world’s largest biotech corporation—had been slowly and consciously poisoning the people of Anniston, Alabama.

From the ’40s to ’70s, Monsanto knowingly dumped millions of pounds of the now-banned industrial chemical polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) into the town’s landfill and creek. PCBs have been shown to cause cancer in animals and humans, including non-Hodgkin lymphoma, a frequently fatal form of cancer.

Some employees suspected danger as early as the 1950s, yet company management did nothing in response to their concerns. In 1966, Monsanto managers discovered that fish submerged in the Choccolocco turned belly-up within 10 seconds, spurting blood and shedding skin as if dunked into boiling water. They told no one.

Three years later, they found fish in another nearby creek with 7,500 times the legal PCB levels. However, they concluded that there was no point in “going to expensive extremes in limiting discharges.” In 1975, yet another company study found that PCBs caused tumors in rats. Managers ordered the report’s conclusion changed from “slightly tumorigenic” to “does not appear to be carcinogenic.”

In 2003, Monsanto finally confessed and agreed to pay $700 million to more than 20,000 residents in the first civil suit of its kind. Thousands of pages of Monsanto documents—many marked “CONFIDENTIAL: Read and Destroy”—proved that, for decades, the corporate giant concealed what it did and what it knew.

“This is a classic case of corporate abuse as well as a violation of public trust,” says Jay Feldman, executive director of the health and environmental group Beyond Pesticides. “Even as the signs piled up of its dangers and adverse effects, the company continued to ignore the warnings.”

While Monsanto employees kept this dirty secret, the residents of Anniston had no idea how prevalent this pollutant chemical was becoming in their daily lives. For years, they drank and swam in toxic ponds, cultivated vegetables from chemically saturated soil, and even ate the tainted soil, a practice known as pica.

For instance, Shannon Jeffries, a former resident of Anniston, only found about the poison water lawsuit after her husband asked why so many people in her family were deformed or had died of cancer.

“It didn’t seem odd for me to know many people with various forms of cancer,” Jeffries said. “I didn’t make the connection about this aunt or this uncle having this weird disease, or this person having this funky eye condition. I was innocent I guess, sheltered, scared to ask. Who knows?”

Jeffries herself was born with a severe form of scoliosis that led to excruciating pain and surgeries throughout her youth and adulthood. While still in utero in the late ’60s, her mother spent the better part of her pregnancy with her belly submerged in the same creek where tons of toxic chemicals were being dumped.

Even though PCBs have now been banned, it’s clear that they have long-term impacts on our health.

“There’s a range of adverse impacts that run the gamut of both chronic and acute health effects,” Feldman adds. “The concern historically has been that it’s an organic pollutant and carcinogen in both animals and humans. The company should have known this was harmful, and I believe they did.”

According to Feldman, Monsanto isn’t alone in this. From his experience, there is almost always collusion between government and corporations where companies hide behind laws of government regulation and scientific debate.

Monsanto, the same company that brought us Agent Orange and DDT, stopped making PCBs in 1977, two years before a nationwide ban took effect. Today, however, they are the leaders in manufacturing genetically modified organisms, claiming that this technology will reduce soil erosion and pesticide use, decrease our dependency on fossil fuels, slow climate change, and other grandiose positive effects on the environment .

But instead, Feldman says, the opposite is happening, and Monsanto continues to do nothing about it.

“All of the promises we have been made with this technology have really failed us,” he adds. “All of their assumptions are wrong.”

Currently, 70 percent of foods grown in the United States contain genetically modified ingredients, but there is no way for consumers to know because businesses are not required to identify them on the label.

Hopefully we don’t have to wait for the day that people start turning belly-up, spurting blood, and shedding skin to get the answers we deserve.

[Soulboy]

Fully agree on the evils of Monsanto. It's also a funny coincidence that we are being sprayed with heavy metal micro-particles that go into all of our soil world-wide almost, while there is a HUGE biotech company which has already introduced the world to the full goodness of Agent Orange many years ago, who manufacture seeds that are resistant to aluminium. I will leave those dots unconnected. After our 6th day of sun of this whole year yesterday (in early June), I looked out the window in the early evening and spotted a total of 14 chemtrail lines out of only one window of my flat and guess what - it's cloudy today and it's starting to rain as I write this.

What good is it if any of us go on about organic farming in our yards if our soil is poisoned every day so that those organic seeds may no longer even be able to grow in future?

Monsanto just promised they would not spend any more money, time and effort on forcing EU countries to advance the GMO agenda. The good news for them is they might not even have to if our soil is going to be poisoned with aluminium for much longer...

All this happens while government vegetable assassin units (lobbied by certain interest groups, I would imagine) go around perpetrating targeted hits on farmers markets around the US, kicking up tables, smashing organic veggies and legislation is being introduced that forbids individuals to run a small scale farming operation, except tor the purposes of growing their own consumption of fruit and veg, which is currently in discussion in Europe's own cesspit, Brussels. The legislation in question conveniently omits any factors that could serve to distinguish what private growing for one's own needs is limited to, as compared to small commercial gardening that would be illegal under the law that is proposed.

I think an educated guess as to who may be behind the ban on many varieties of fruit and veg in Europe should be allowed, too... Who in the world would think that the world would be a better place if we only had one or two varieties of every fruit? Who would like to be limited to GMO Granny Smith apples for the rest of their lives?

I for one quite enjoy a big variety of organic apples, yes the ones that are small, look a bit dodgy and may even have worms in them here or there, but they taste good, are healthy, natural and are not drenched in 14 different pesticides causing all manner of illnesses the life-shortening effects of which are anyone's guess.

Luckily, that law did not pass due to mass protests and online petitions, but let's see how long it takes before they put a new fancy dress and a wig on that very same law and try to push it through again. If internet privacy laws are any suggestion, I don't think it will take too long until that is going to happen.

How has tampering with nature worked for us in the past? We have dams and massive floods in Germany, now they're worried a dam might break which could lead to an incredible disaster and the loss of many lives. Why did we need those dams in the first place?

These photos of the lab animals being fed GMOs say it all, really. This new iPhone app called "Buycott" was not programmed because people around the world all agree that GMOs are just GRRRRREAT...

Then there is the factor of enironmental destruction. River water in some places of Germany is so toxic that you can develop your old photo films in them... Freshly caught trout, anyone? :yuck:

Also, what benevolent company needs to hire Blackwater to monitor and target its critics?

[blufire]

I say, I will hold a safe space for you. I sensed in the opening post that, although the idea of feeding 7 billion people and how we do that without going against nature, is the catalyst for something else.

We all are an amalgamation of all of our lives, and we have a story to share, an experience unique to us, which (this is just a gut assumption) I have sensed all along that there is more to the story with you and that you want to share it. Avalon is just such a place. Yes, we are a tough crowd, but only because we have tough issues and we are all opening up to the full light of truth, within ourselves as well as the collective. This step, often times, pushes us to the extreme polarities just before the opening of a new paradigm, before we birth the next level of the collective dream we all agreed to when we descended into this density and incarnated into life on earth.

Bits and pieces of my story are written here, usually in obscure places and at unusual times, but those who have read my posts know it. You stood up blufire, to take on the challenge of testing the waters with one of the most heated and most controversial of subjects, the introduction of toxins into our food supply, the one thing which all humans find sacrosanct.

So, the postulate is Personal yes, as the OP says, most likely controversial with an element of tech and the globalists, but stepping back from the canvas and viewing the big picture through the lens of early childhood phenomenon that does not fit into the mainstream consciousness, is no reason to hold back here. We are all being called to do so at this time.

This is the energy permeating every cell of every being, even the plants and animals feel it. I say "go for it". Take the risk, tell us your story. Ask the mods to change the title of this thread if the focus has shifted. This is your platform and your thread. Take it wherever you want. I'll stand with you.

(bold in gripreapers post are mine)


Yes I do have a tendency to stand up against some of the very most heated and sensitive subjects. Omnivores and vegetarians/vegans is one and the ruckus I caused with the channeling thread is another. I am a rebel and lone wolf at heart and have always jumped flat in the middle of something i believe strongly and have at it until I figure it out. I have never fit into any group, not even here on Avalon.

I will not go with the easy flow of an idea, philosophy or hypothesis if I know deep down and without question it is not correct or at least incorrect with all information currently available on the subject . . . . information from all sides and material . . . .not just the parts we want to believe or that everyone else within the circle believes.

Growth will not occur if we travel the rut or stay on the easy path.


This step, often times, pushes us to the extreme polarities just before the opening of a new paradigm, before we birth the next level of the collective dream we all agreed to when we descended into this density and incarnated into life on earth.

but stepping back from the canvas and viewing the big picture through the lens of early childhood phenomenon that does not fit into the mainstream consciousness, is no reason to hold back here. We are all being called to do so at this time.

These two paragraphs hit me full on and with conviction. I feel I can no longer be silent in what I feel I was shown so many years ago or what I have come to understand and believe is unfolding. And yes, I know I agreed to this path before I came here at this time and this place. There is also a very deep feeling that I also was ‘sent’ here. I agreed but out of some sense of loyalty or understanding that I really didn’t have a choice.

I feel with conviction that now is the time in my life, because at the age I am and with the past 40+ years of research, study, and life experience I now understand more fully what I was shown so many years ago.

And also because now every time and try to ‘forget’ again I am pushed harder.

So am not sure where to begin.

I will post (as soon as I can) on my profile page the story of the encounters I had as a child and into my teenage years. I will say now that most on PA will reject what I say because of who the encounters were with and because the encounters were very positive.

Gripreaper, thank you for understanding and for the support and for the kick in the hind end . . . . . but take your stand wisely because I am not sure where this may lead.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

“It appears there is a direct correlation between GMOs and autism.” --Arden Anderson, MD, PhD, MPH

KILLERS IS WHAT THEY ARE.

Hey guys, about celiac disease:

I wondered about infant gut damage a lot when I realized that baby formula is about 42% corn syrup solids and for all we know, it is GMO corn.

It would not surprise me if gluten allergies and other happenings follow suit when altered grains hit the market.

http://celiacdisease.about.com/b/2013/04/16/study-finds-some-evidence-for-corn-cross-reactivity-in-celiac-disease.htm

2012 Study Finds Some Evidence for Corn Cross-Reactivity in Celiac
By Jane Anderson, About.com GuideApril 16, 2013


Although this study came out a year ago, I'm constantly being asked about it and what it might mean for people with celiac disease and gluten sensitivity who also can't tolerate corn. So I think it's worth repeating the details of what it showed (and didn't show):

There's no question that many people with celiac disease and gluten sensitivity also have issues with corn.

Some of the problem likely involves gluten cross-contamination in the corn (like all other grains, corn can be quite gluten-contaminated unless the growers and processors take specific steps to protect their crop from accidental contact with gluten).

However, a 2012 research study indicates that the immune systems of people with celiac disease may in fact react to corn in a way that's similar to how they react to gluten.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coeliac_disease


Coeliac disease (/ˈsiːli.æk/; spelled celiac disease in North America[1] and often celiac sprue) is an autoimmune disorder of the small intestine that occurs in genetically predisposed people of all ages from middle infancy onward. Symptoms include pain and discomfort in the digestive tract, chronic constipation and diarrhoea, failure to thrive (in children), and fatigue, but these may be absent, and symptoms in other organ systems have been described. Vitamin deficiencies are often noted in people with Coeliac disease owing to the reduced ability of the small intestine to properly absorb nutrients from food.

Increasingly, diagnoses are being made in asymptomatic persons as a result of increased screening;[2] the condition is thought to affect between 1 in 1,750 and 1 in 105 people in the United States

1 in 105 is close to the official autism rate, no?

http://celiacdisease.about.com/od/commoncomplicationsofcd/a/Celiac-Disease-Can-Cause-Pregnancy-Problems.htm

Celiac Disease Can Cause Pregnancy Problems
Threatened Miscarriage, Severe Anemia Common in Celiac Women

By Jane Anderson, About.com Guide
Updated October 23, 2011


Women who have celiac disease suffer from pregnancy problems and complications at two to four times the rate of women who don't have the condition. It's possible, however, that following a careful gluten-free diet during pregnancy might help avert some of the problems.

Research shows that women with celiac disease have higher rates of infertility and miscarriage if they haven't been diagnosed.

But it appears that celiac disease-related pregnancy problems don't end there. Research also indicates that women with celiac disease (mostly undiagnosed celiac disease) have higher rates of more than half a dozen pregnancy complications, including threatened miscarriage and severe iron deficiency anemia, than other women.

They also have shorter pregnancies, on average, and lower birth-weight babies.

http://www.responsibletechnology.org/autism

Are Genetically Engineered Foods Promoting Autism?

video: http://vimeo.com/responsibletechnology/gmfautism


By Jeffrey M. Smith
International bestselling author and filmmaker Jeffrey M. Smith is the executive director of the Institute for Responsible Technology www.ResponsibleTechnology.org and a leading spokesperson on the health dangers of GMOs. His books include Seeds of Deception and Genetic Roulette, and his films include Hidden Dangers in Kids’ Meals, Your Milk on Drugs—Just Say No!, and a new documentary due out in early summer 2012.

[blufire]

Paul said:

We are not advocating taking away all the food suddenly. That is a red herring.

We are advocating taking away the lies, exposing the deceit and fraud.

Then we will be in a position to understand what is going on, and how we can dismantle that which we realize should not continue


Bill said:

I'm willing to talk with most people about most things, but interfering with nature in the way promoted by Monsanto is non-negotiably unconscionable.

The problem of [apparent] food shortage in the world is all about logistics and economics and agendas -- not genetics.

Problem --> reaction --> solution. People buying into these 'solutions' as the only way forward have been manipulated by the dialectic



Yes there are many lies, deceit and fraud surrounding Monsanto and genetically engineered food and many other advanced technologies.

Because if humanity as a whole understood why this research and technology is being put into rapid expansion there would be unbelievable chaos and would be cruel.

The Truth? We as a whole would not be able to handle the Truth.

Bill, I also feel it is ‘non-negotiably unconscionable’ when someone in a position such as yours holds back valuable information and clarity that would enable people to understand more fully exactly what to expect and how to prepare in everyway for their current way of life and for their future and for their generations after them.

You post and start threads that say everyone should get out of the states asap and move to Ecuador with no real reasoning why or possible options for those unable or unwilling to move.

You start the threads with the info from Doug Hagman and DHS insider with no info on why (truly) these attacks are taking place or what steps people can take immediately and to set themselves up for a more peaceful future.

I can only extrapolate that:

(1) You don’t have any other ‘insider’ information that would provide more clarity . . . .although I find this very hard to believe with your immense contacts with ‘people in the know’

(2) You feel it is more prudent that each individual comes to their own decision and understanding and will hear what they need to hear within the level of growth they are in . . . .although I find this unconscionable because you are a teacher and in position of leadership within this forum and by that position are responsible (within reason) to those on this forum.

(3) You understand very fully what the future holds both immediate and distant and choose not to reveal this knowledge because of the chaos and emotional turmoil it would cause.

How about we both are more clear and forthcoming on what our immediate and possible distant future holds?

And no using the very tired and old “out” of saying the timeline will or has changed.

We both (among others on this forum) also know that the Shepherds (my term) over this planet and solar system are directing the Controllers (your term and I will use) of this planet to prepare the planet and humanity for at least two possible scenarios. . . . . . .

That hinge completely on when the planet is struck with a natural force (cme, asteroid, rapid catastrophic climate change, etc) so immense, that it will knock us back into the dark ages and kill a large portion of humanity.

[blufire]

Tesla WTC Solution and others . . .with respect

Please take discussion about the problems and all the cut and pasted information with GMO’s and diseases to the forty eleven hundred other threads about gmo’s.

This thread is going down a untraveled road.

[naste.de.lumina]

Because if humanity as a whole Understood why this research and technology is being put into rapid expansion there would be unbelievable chaos and would be cruel.
The Truth? We as a whole would not be able to handle the Truth.

So we must accept that the poison they are imposing ourselves while destroying the natural life, is meant to protect us from the fact that we could not bear?

Here is a truth that can seem unbearable.
I'm sure that there is a force called Karma.
What you do you receive. Simple as that. Has no tears, no leaves for later, do not take bribes and has no expiration date.

[blufire]

Tesla I will save you the time and effort in your research,

Yes, autism can be directly traced back to gmo food. Specifically formula fed to babies that is made from soy beans and high fructose corn syrup (both highly genetically modified) or from breast milk from mothers whose diet consists largely of gmo food.

Vaccinations or other stressors to the child’s biological systems trigger autism which is why a child is normal until he/she receives childhood vaccinations.

Some autism is reversible with intense diet modification, most autism is not reversible.

I am sorry because I know of your struggle with your son.

[blufire]

Because if humanity as a whole Understood why this research and technology is being put into rapid expansion there would be unbelievable chaos and would be cruel.
The Truth? We as a whole would not be able to handle the Truth.

So we must accept that the poison they are imposing ourselves while destroying the natural life, is meant to protect us from the fact that we could not bear?

Reread my post and take your understanding much deeper.

You are way too shallow in your understanding of what I mean by Truth and why technology like gmo food is rapidly being developed.

The health problems and interference with nature are ‘bugs’ the scientists are working through in development of this needed ‘food source’.

I am sure I am not the only one on this forum that understands the true (foundational) reasons behind gmo food, chemtrails, underground cities, alien presence, global economic collapse and global government .

[naste.de.lumina]

Maybe I'm shallow because I do not like being the guinea pig to solve the problems of bugs. May be a valid reason from my perspective.

[blufire]

Maybe I'm shallow because I do not like being the guinea pig to solve the problems of bugs. May be a valid reason from my perspective.

Understandable.

But (hopefully) as we flesh this (reasons for technology such as gmo’s) out in more detail you will be at least more informed.

It won’t make the atrocities of gmo’s and other implemented global plans easier to accept, but at least we will be more clear for the necessity and rapid implementation of them.

[gripreaper]

Because if humanity as a whole understood why this research and technology is being put into rapid expansion there would be unbelievable chaos and would be cruel. The Truth? We as a whole would not be able to handle the Truth.

Try us. We can handle the truth.


We both (among others on this forum) also know that the Shepherds (my term) over this planet and solar system are directing the Controllers (your term and I will use) of this planet to prepare the planet and humanity for at least two possible scenarios. . . . . . .

Which are?


That hinge completely on when the planet is struck with a natural force (cme, asteroid, rapid catastrophic climate change, etc) so immense, that it will knock us back into the dark ages and kill a large portion of humanity.

I would surmise Bill would agree with you, that there is potential for a catastrophic outcome should we remain on the trajectory we are on, which is all the more reason to “come out with it”


I am sure I am not the only one on this forum that understands the true (foundational) reasons behind gmo food, chemtrails, underground cities, alien presence, global economic collapse and global government .

I’m also pretty sure you are not the only one who understands the “jest” of the foundational reasons, which is an extension of your above two scenarios which you have yet to explain.

I can only surmise, based on the coy and disjointed and limited information you have been forthright with so far, that:

1. You know something which most of the rest of us do not, and you are reluctant to share this information for reasons unknown to us.

2. You understand very fully what the future holds both immediate and distant and choose not to reveal this knowledge because of the chaos and emotional turmoil it would cause.


I feel with conviction that now is the time in my life, because at the age I am and with the past 40+ years of research, study, and life experience I now understand more fully what I was shown so many years ago. And also because now every time I try to ‘forget’ again I am pushed harder. So am not sure where to begin.

Begin at the beginning. Start with your early childhood experiences and encounters with the greys. Tell us what you learned. Tell us how this fits into the big picture, and why GMO’s are a big part of this. Tell us what the two potential outcomes are, what our choices are in regards to these, and how it all fits together. Tell us how your life has changed since you moved back to the Appalachian Mountains, in regards to the epiphanies, insights, and clarifications which you have had.

Just be yourself and come out with it. You want to, that is clear, although you are reluctant. Let the chips fall where they may.


Gripreaper, thank you for understanding and for the support and for the kick in the hind end . . . . . but take your stand wisely because I am not sure where this may lead.

Not to worry. I know where I stand and how to stay within my presence. If fallacies arise in my understanding, so much the better that they be pointed out, and my perception be changed and encompass a more holistic view.

[naste.de.lumina]

Sorry blufire.
I totally disagree with the arguments need to genetically modified foods.
The ends to justify the means, it is only good for the business owners.
Monsanto, Nestle and other similar companies are intentionally genocidal.
To get only the food companies.
The reckoning will come sooner or later.
'Then we'll see who's got more bottle to sell.' - popular saying in Brazil

[ThePythonicCow]

blufire -- From where I sit, it seems that you keep responding to us with a variety of rhetorical fallacies (http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/rhetological-fallacies/) (see also here (http://www.nobeliefs.com/fallacies.htm)). I have tried earlier in this thread and elsewhere to point them out, which usually just prompts you to write more such fallacies, so I won't attempt here to point out further examples of such to you.

Many of the actual words presented in your posts on this thread, and some others, are not helping to improve the awareness or understanding of others. Quite the contrary. They are raising the stink of confused controversy over various important topics. I do not know why you do this, or even if you are aware that you are doing this. I despair of conveying this to you, of which I am rather convinced by now.

[Dennis Leahy]

... researchers who are from the ‘other side’ whose research is just as valid as to why at this time we (globally) need this technology.

... maybe we could start with one element that could help pull this topic into a balanced understanding?

Hi blufire,

the element for me would be something done by (as close to) independent researchers to show that GMO is

a.) better. (in any way, other than the two I mentioned earlier, which are a given: withstanding toxic glyphosate i.e. -Roundup, and producing the bT toxin internally. Both of these have been proven to cause health problems in humans) I have seen literally nothing to suggest that GMO produces better, stronger, more drought resistant, more nutritious plants.

Note well that this is not decrying technological advances - hybrids, the stabiization of hybrids, rediscovering bio-char/tierra negra, seed coatings for drought resistance and increased viability, understanding the role of microorganisms in making micronutrients bio-available for plant uptake, deepening the understanding of the role of fungus and its mycelium in soil health, ...and higher-tech technologies for increased urban food density, such as vertical farming, hydroponics...

b.) necessary. As I have mentioned before, the largest study conducted (30-years, and large scale) side-by-side comparison of organic to conventional farming (not just gardening, farming) showed organic farming to be better in every category. GMOs were included in the "conventional" side when they became available. I won't repeat all the data points of the articles on that Rodale study, but ask you to at least look at one of numerous articles on it: 30 Year Study: Organic Farming Outperforms Conventional, Chemical Farming (http://wakeup-world.com/2012/02/26/30-year-study-organic-farming-outperforms-conventional-chemical-farming/)

Two paragraphs that I will paste here are:

Organic farming also helps sustain rural communities by creating more jobs; a UN study shows organic farms create 30 per cent more jobs per hectare than nonorganic. More of the money in organic farming goes to paying local people, rather than to farm inputs.”
The Rodale trials showed organic crops were more resilient, and organic corn yields were 31 percent higher than conventional in years of drought, compared to genetically modified (GM) “drought tolerant” varieties, which showed increases of only 6.7 per cent to 13.3 per cent over conventional (non-drought resistant) varieties.
...because it is important to note the direct comparison between GM supposedly drought-tolerant seeds and organic seeds. Drought tolerance is one of the attributes often touted for GMO seeds. It ain't so, and a whole bunch of dead cotton farmers in India could attest to it - if they hadn't committed suicide due to Monsanto GMO cotton seed failure in drought.

blufire, something that you have read or a video that you have watched evidently had a profound impact on you, and made you do a 180° turnabout in regards to GMOs being not just beneficial, but critically important. I need to see that information (or to hear that it is a gut feeling without any independent scientific proof.

When I mention "independent", it is probably obvious as to why, but I want to make sure. A powerful example of the impossibility to produce truly unbiased and independent results would be a study of soybeans that was to be the focus of a very large grant to an Indiana university, with the grant money coming from a subsidiary of Monsanto. Do we honestly think that there is ANY chance at all that this university that just got a "gift" large enough to build a new agricultural sciences building on campus is going to produce a report stating that soybeans are unhealthful in a human diet, or that GMO soy is inferior to non-GMO soy?

I have seen it argued that the Rodale study (an organic-supportive institute) is pro-organic and the Seralini (French researcher) was anti-GMO, and that this might taint the results of their work. However, all scientists develop a hypothesis, and then devise tests to prove or disprove a hypothesis. Just because the scientist guessed correctly, and proved it, does not mean the study's conclusions are incorrect. I know that a French agency downcast Seralini's work, but note the wording:

European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) ruled the paper had “insufficient scientific quality to be considered as valid for risk assessment."Anyone familiar with a study with a control (like Seralini's), the study simply divides the groups (in this case rats), and subjects the non-control group to a specific condition different than the control group, keeping all other conditions as close to identical as possible. One group of rats was fed non-GMO food; one group GMO food with glyphosate; one group GMO food without glyphosate. Pretty damn simple. The GMO and GMO+glyphosate groups developed a bunch of tumors; the non-GMO, non-glyphosate group did not. Pretty damn simple. Note that Seralini is not charged with scientific fraud. If they could have, they would have, and they would have proved it. The best they could come up with was a nebulous "insufficient scientific quality" to try to discredit the study - and recommend another study be conducted (discredit and procrastinate - allowing Monsanto to supplant more of the world's seed supply with patented Monsanto GMO seed.)

10,000 years of organic agriculture. 20 years of GMO? Literally nothing other than what is written on a Monsanto or Bayer or Syngenta brochure proclaiming the benefits of GMO...

Again, something very profound must have changed your mind, blufire. What was it?

Dennis

{edit, to add}


...We both (among others on this forum) also know that the Shepherds (my term) over this planet and solar system are directing the Controllers (your term and I will use) of this planet to prepare the planet and humanity for at least two possible scenarios. . . . . . .

That hinge completely on when the planet is struck with a natural force (cme, asteroid, rapid catastrophic climate change, etc) so immense, that it will knock us back into the dark ages and kill a large portion of humanity.
I don't know this to be true. Appears to be conjecture, and your best guess as to where the GMO "program" came from. However, we have ample evidence that the GMO program came from simple greed and collusion, with a very carefully planned long-term conspiracy to embed agents of Monsanto into the US government. If this is your main evidence, it is your gut feeling, and (unless you bring forth some proof beyond conjecture), I have to stick with the info I have. GMO seeds are not stronger, and would not help in the case of drought, climate change, CME/EMP, dust cloud from asteroid, or atomic war. If the word came from ETs, they are either wrong or deliberately misleading.

Dennis

[Bill Ryan]

Bill, I also feel it is ‘non-negotiably unconscionable’ when someone in a position such as yours holds back valuable information and clarity that would enable people to understand more fully exactly what to expect and how to prepare in everyway for their current way of life and for their future and for their generations after them

Huh?

I'm not holding anything back. Maybe you've not been following all my posts on various threads. (Easy to miss stuff, I know.)

In terms of current events -->


Essential reading for all Avalonians (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?55445-Essential-reading-for-all-Avalonians)
The Japanese Financial System Is Beginning To Spin Wildly Out Of Control (and why this is important) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59514-The-Japanese-Financial-System-Is-Beginning-To-Spin-Wildly-Out-Of-Control--and-why-this-is-important-)
Doug Hagmann's DHS Source: "It’s about to get very ugly" (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59851-Doug-Hagmann-s-DHS-Source-It--s-about-to-get-very-ugly)


In terms of geophysics -->


I do NOT subscribe to Clif High's claims that there will be a "Global Coastal Event". (I never have done, either.)
I'm still watching Solar Cycle 24. I'm not the only observer who is puzzled. Some physicists are positing that there may be a double peak. (http://www.arrl.org/news/solar-cycle-24-may-have-double-peaks-says-nasa-solar-physicist) That means that the true peak may not have occurred yet.


In terms of how and what I communicate -->


I am not "starting threads that say everyone should get out of the states asap and move to Ecuador".
I DO suggest that those who are in a position to leave the US consider doing so. Whether they move to Ecuador, Costa Rica, Thailand, New Zealand (or anywhere else) isn't my concern or my business.
Ecuador is a viable possibility. This is why I'm here. There are other options, too. One option is to stay put in the US, and tough it out. Some (but not many) are in a strong position to do so.
I DO hold that it's "prudent that each individual comes to their own decision and understanding and will hear what they need to hear within the level of growth they are in" -- and I'd also add:
Each person has their own specific mission and purpose, and where he or she is located will be closely connected with whatever that mission or purpose might be.

[DevilPigeon]

-----

I can't understand how anyone can defend GMO food, regardless of the apparent motive. It's a bit like saying nature is doing a crap job. By and large, most things 'man' touches 'man' screws up.

[DevilPigeon]

-----

Another thing to chew on, just to prove that Monsanto et al aren't producing GMO 'food' for the overall benefit of the population. The intent is to replace natural food rather than supplement it.

[ThePythonicCow]

-----

Another thing to chew on, just to prove that Monsanto et al aren't producing GMO 'food' for the overall benefit of the population. The intent is to replace natural food rather than supplement it.
Indeed, hence the motive for the terminator gene (which forces farmers to buy new seed each year), and the motive for all the legal and regulatory actions to oppose use of natural or heirloom seeds and force use of Monsanto seeds.

[naste.de.lumina]

-----

Another thing to chew on, just to prove that Monsanto et al aren't producing GMO 'food' for the overall benefit of the population. The intent is to replace natural food rather than supplement it.
Indeed, hence the motive for the terminator gene (which forces farmers to buy new seed each year), and the motive for all the legal and regulatory actions to oppose use of natural or heirloom seeds and force use of Monsanto seeds.

And the bastards do not stop inventing new ways to destroy our dignity and humanity. Nanotechnology - the new threat to food is the new plague.
http://nano.foe.org.au/node/198

[sdv]

-----

Another thing to chew on, just to prove that Monsanto et al aren't producing GMO 'food' for the overall benefit of the population. The intent is to replace natural food rather than supplement it.
Indeed, hence the motive for the terminator gene (which forces farmers to buy new seed each year), and the motive for all the legal and regulatory actions to oppose use of natural or heirloom seeds and force use of Monsanto seeds.

Exactly, and so GMO seeds entrap Third World countries (where the abject poverty is) because those countries have to buy seed from these multinationals otherwise they cannot grow food. Money is thus flowing from farmers in poor countries to these rich multinationals. The safety of that seed is not tested by scientists in those poor countries (not because they do not have scientists but because big brother says trust me, we have tested it and it is safe, and here's a donation for your family ... nice doing business with you). It is an unacceptable and unethical situation.

[Sierra]

GMO corn and cotton require double the water of natural seed. When Monsoon season fails (and it is tending to in the face of climate change), the farmers in debt for the expensive GMO seeds, end up on a wheel of debt (You have to buy expensive new GMO seed from Monsanto every year). The reason so many farmers are attempting to grow the high risk cotton crop in the first place, is that it is one of the few crops that produce enough money to give the farmers a fighting chance at a better life for their family. But it is high risk, and the cotton belt is called the cotton suicide belt.

This article explains why Indian farmers cannot go organic (now):

http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2012/11/why-are-indian-farmers-committing-suicide-over-their-debts

Sierra

[naste.de.lumina]

To me it is clear that there is a consensus on this forum nefarious agenda of transgenic and responsible for their current development.
What is not clear is the story behind the story that blufire seems to be wanting to tell or want us to believe.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/clip_image0023.jpg

[Sierra]

Maybe I'm shallow because I do not like being the guinea pig to solve the problems of bugs. May be a valid reason from my perspective.

Understandable.

But (hopefully) as we flesh this (reasons for technology such as gmo’s) out in more detail you will be at least more informed.

It won’t make the atrocities of gmo’s and other implemented global plans easier to accept, but at least we will be more clear for the necessity and rapid implementation of them.

There are no bugs with the Illuminati. They have a cure for everything, all disease, all contaminated water, earth, and air, all forms of uranium damage, free energy, you name it, they have it.

What they do, they do with full knowledge, intent, and purpose. Depopulation. And profit while they do it.

Blufire, you say, "But (hopefully) as we flesh this (reasons for technology such as gmo’s) out in more detail you will be at least more informed. It won’t make the atrocities of gmo’s and other implemented global plans easier to accept, but at least we will be more clear for the necessity and rapid implementation of them."

I am feeling a bit jerked around because you are not telling us this information that is supposed to make us understand why we should go along with the atrocities of gmo.

I am also feeling a bit shocked... at the lumping of created disease (HIV, Ebola, Sars, Flu strains being recreated from the 1918 version etc.), chemtrails, the aluminum byproduct flouride in our water, wars, depleted uranium, crashing of the global economy, creation of the para-military organization HDS, genocide, destruction of mother earth, destruction of all indigenous cultures and people, in the phrase ... as "... other implemented global plans ... we will be more clear for the necesity and rapid implementation of them."

If you think I have overstated or over interpreted my understanding of the global directive as meant by the quote above, please correct me. Let's get specific as to what you mean.

And in any case, I hope I've made clear the necessity of a rapid implementation of the understanding we need to understand where you are coming from.

Courage. You gotta keep going now Blufire. I am just telling you what I expect, what you seem to have encouraged us to expect from you.

Sierra

[AriG]

I had to read these threads several times to really grasp that Bluefire is rationalizing Monsanto's systematic destruction of the natural world and their attempted monopoly on life (patents). Bluefire sees Monsanto as a necessary evil to provide food for the burgeoning population and it seems that he/she is suggesting that the toxins are ok for the "masses" in lieu of starvation. An either/or argument. The fix for the perceived food shortage is livestock. That is, of course, until Monsanto finds a way to acquire patents on cows and goats... Yes, Monsanto must be stopped. This is a remarkable solution:


http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_ reverse_climate_change.html

[WEAREONE]

blufire,

I have gone back and read all the posts of this thread and the one it merged from and tried to read your posts in detail, as well as a few of your other more involved responses in other threads.

In my reading and understanding I have naturally as one does tried my best to understand your message. I find a few themes that I really hope you can share, and clarify more on. First and most important for me is the subject that to me is infused into your discussion about free choice, time to take action, etc. It appears there is more to be said on this that I feel ties in with your message and permeates your responses.

I also see a theme of a certain knowledge you have about the future, the controllers, and the need for certain things that most people would find very scary and horrible. An example of this is the topic itself, Monsanto.... It appears your point of view of Monsanto and its practices ranges from a practical necessary evil to an almost hidden agenda where they are actually doing good work and we are unable to see these good works as we do not understand the situation fully.

I was also confused about your message to Bill. It appears you are calling out Bill for not sharing all the information you believe he has? Can you elaborate or clraify your statement to Bill.

[I]Re: Personal, controversial view of Monsanto, Globalists and Technology
Posted by blufire (here)
Bill, I also feel it is ‘non-negotiably unconscionable’ when someone in a position such as yours holds back valuable information and clarity that would enable people to understand more fully exactly what to expect and how to prepare in everyway for their current way of life and for their future and for their generations after them


Huh?

I'm not holding anything back. Maybe you've not been following all my posts on various threads. (Easy to miss stuff, I know.)

In terms of current events -->
Essential reading for all Avalonians
The Japanese Financial System Is Beginning To Spin Wildly Out Of Control (and why this is important)
Doug Hagmann's DHS Source: "It’s about to get very ugly"

In terms of geophysics -->
I do NOT subscribe to Clif High's claims that there will be a "Global Coastal Event". (I never have done, either.)
I'm still watching Solar Cycle 24. I'm not the only observer who is puzzled. Some physicists are positing that there may be a double peak. That means that the true peak may not have occurred yet.

In terms of how and what I communicate -->
I am not "starting threads that say everyone should get out of the states asap and move to Ecuador".
I DO suggest that those who are in a position to leave the US consider doing so. Whether they move to Ecuador, Costa Rica, Thailand, New Zealand (or anywhere else) isn't my concern or my business.
Ecuador is a viable possibility. This is why I'm here. There are other options, too. One option is to stay put in the US, and tough it out. Some (but not many) are in a strong position to do so.
I DO hold that it's "prudent that each individual comes to their own decision and understanding and will hear what they need to hear within the level of growth they are in" -- and I'd also add:
Each person has their own specific mission and purpose, and where he or she is located will be closely connected with whatever that mission or purpose might be


Lastly, I would suggest you start presenting actual links to reading material, videos, stats, data. Personal experiences etc. I have not really seen much of anything to support your position on Monsanto. Your post about meat consumption as necessary for proper muscle develpment was filled with facts, was logical and easy to follow. And hopefuuly in this thread you can post in a similar easy to understand manner.

Perhaps there are certain emotions involved in this post that are getting in the way, but it does appear to me at this point you are not quite ready to share fully what you believe, nor share why you believe what you believe. Until you are ready, or find us worthy to understand, or whatever is going on. Then can I suggest you please keep in mind that your posts are seen by many as a distraction.

I would suggest to you for most members and guests of this forum that the information available to us can easily show that Monsanto is not a good corporation. There is lots of videos and posts that point this out. Even the subject of GMO's in general is at the minimum something that needs to be further tested, and more transparent.

I do hope this message meets you well.

[judymoon]

This is what I have gleaned from reading through this thread. You did a 180 on on your research-backed conclusions on Monsantos purpose, and now believe that this corporation is indeed trying to save humanity with its GMO crops and take over of farming.

You did this 180 because you are remembering information that was given to you in childhood experiences.

Information from a benevolent source.

Part of this information is that there is soon to be a natural catastrophe that will devastate the planet and cause a huge loss of life.

Genetically enginered crops are what will save the people who survive.

This is what doesn't make sense to me.

1. If there was a huge catastrophe, with a huge loss of life, there wouldn't be 7 million people to feed anymore.

Governments would collapse, chaos would insue, people would be trying to survive in small communities. Terminator seed would not be helpful.

2. If there is no catastrophe, because I misunderstood you, there is something so dreadful coming that risking our health, our children, and our future will be worth it in the long run, as you agree that GMO foods are contributing to the rise in autisim, and severe health problems.

3. You know what is coming - and you assume that Bill does also, but you can't tell us because we can't handle the truth. But you think Bill should have told us, as it is his responsibility.

4. You want to educate us but don't seem to be giving us any info that would help us see why your 180 on this extremely sensitive and controversial subject is the correct to look at it.

[Sierra]

I have decided that I need to try to communicate more fully my seemingly controversial understanding of certain polarizing topics and issues as they are typically discussed on Avalon.
<snip>
I have done a 180 in the past few years ...
<snip>
So I am going to try hard to post as often as possible to try to communicate ...
<snip>
But I feel driven to try to communicate why my views seem so opposite and controversial. ...
<snip>
I have read and researched and applied this topic for over 20 years now.

<snip and a quote from a lower post>
And yes Celiacs diseases is very ugly and can be contributed directly to gmo food.

Which is why as an herbalist and organic grower I studied and learned how to heal this side effect of gmo food.

Really? That is it? Humph.

It is time for some Trololo! :dance3:

2Z4m4lnjxkY

[william r sanford72]

in my burnt out hard drive i had footage recorded over time of grain bins along the missp. river from a life long friend who operates a tug boat..during the on season or harvest his primary job is to move grain barges up and down the river to unload or upload.almost always corn.what i saw occuring was mountains o corn...i mean little mountains or metric tons being held back..stored.to manipulate the price.follow the stockmarket.some of the corn would and is rotting...as i write.what my friend also conveyed was going on that i couldnt see was corn gone bad being processed in such away that it could be reintroduced into the food chain for human consumption.livestock.... so forth........now wrap yor head around this truth ...this is a very very small section that i had access to....my point being the truth is under our noses in so many ways...and we grow oh so much more grain then you can imagine...we throw it away...also iam not liked much for my views to...around where i live atleast.so i stick close to home.sorry about sp. also blufire thankyou..your views brings much needed focus on a dire problem that will and has touched all of life on this planet.gets people thinking and talking.so good job to all!!

[transiten]

Slowing matters down again to nature's way of operation is an idea who's time has come,
at least until more is known and openly shared.
Showing people how to grow their own food on roof tops or vertical farms, if necessary,
that would be a better way to go than patenting seeds, and leaving indebted farmers destitute.

However, I do appreciate that you continue to question these issues.

Back from "My little garden" I'm reminded of the contemporary Russian pyramids built of glassfibre that one can read about in "The Source Field Investigations" by David Wilcock. If what reported there is true famine could be exstignguished within a few years.

[blufire]

I apologize. As I said earlier in this thread I do not have much time to be on PA.

I am up usually by 4:00 or 5:00 and usually try to get in bed by 11:00 at night. As I have said many times I live almost totally off grid and self sufficient. This alone takes up almost every waking minute of my day. But I also have many other responsibilities.

I also am trying hard in how to continue with this thread and how to deliver what I have ‘remembered’ and how to support this information.

The biggest part of me just wants to not even try because most view this as so controversial and even that I am being harmful, but thankfully there is enough support or at least positive curiosity that I am still encouraged.

Also, I feel I am obligated in some way . . . to whom I am obligated is not clear.


This is what I have gleaned from reading through this thread. You did a 180 on on your research-backed conclusions on Monsantos purpose, and now believe that this corporation is indeed trying to save humanity with its GMO crops and take over of farming.

You did this 180 because you are remembering information that was given to you in childhood experiences.

Information from a benevolent source.

Part of this information is that there is soon to be a natural catastrophe that will devastate the planet and cause a huge loss of life.

Genetically enginered crops are what will save the people who survive.

This is what doesn't make sense to me.

1. If there was a huge catastrophe, with a huge loss of life, there wouldn't be 7 million people to feed anymore.

Governments would collapse, chaos would insue, people would be trying to survive in small communities. Terminator seed would not be helpful.

2. If there is no catastrophe, because I misunderstood you, there is something so dreadful coming that risking our health, our children, and our future will be worth it in the long run, as you agree that GMO foods are contributing to the rise in autisim, and severe health problems.

3. You know what is coming - and you assume that Bill does also, but you can't tell us because we can't handle the truth. But you think Bill should have told us, as it is his responsibility.

4. You want to educate us but don't seem to be giving us any info that would help us see why your 180 on this extremely sensitive and controversial subject is the correct to look at it.

Judymoon . . . you are very perceptive and fairly close with many of your gleanings. Some quick responses.


You did a 180 on on your research-backed conclusions on Monsantos purpose, and now believe that this corporation is indeed trying to save humanity with its GMO crops and take over of farming.

Yes. It is not only Monsanto’s technology but other technology from many corporations that we see currently being pushed onto a fast track of implementation. This type of ‘food’ will be absolutely what will feed people in what I have come to view as future global dead zones, not only in the future but in reality this is feeding the majority of the global population now. These dead zones will be heavily over populated and will be where people choose to be taken care of by the global government or will have no other choice other to live in these areas.


You did this 180 because you are remembering information that was given to you in childhood experiences.

Yes. With lifetime experiences, research, studying, exploration etc and then coming back to where these encounters happened it has been like a key opening a doorway.


Information from a benevolent source

Neither benevolent or otherwise. It is a fallacy to put this type of judgment on Beings that are not human but share much of our genetic makeup. My encounters were not traumatic or otherwise . . . . other than I feel they have made me very secluded from people around me . . . I have never fit in with any group.


Part of this information is that there is soon to be a natural catastrophe that will devastate the planet and cause a huge loss of life.

Genetically enginered crops are what will save the people who survive

Yes. There will be a near ELE sometime. Through, who I have come to view as the shepherds, the actual global controllers have been preparing rapidly for this near ELE. They are greatly concerned that the near ELE could happen at any time and we have seen this with the solar flares, asteroids, and meteors coming close to earth and the unknown (to us) source that is causing rapid climate change not only on this planet but others in our solar system.

Throught the shepherds the global controllers are preparing for two things. Overpopulation and resulting global dead zones around the planet and the near ELE.

Genetically altered and (eventually) synthetic food will be what the future global dead zones will eat and then after the near ELE will be what humans (who survive) will have available until the planet settles back down.

Genetically altered and synthesized food will also be required as humans move into space exploration and habitation. . . . think food replicators on Star Trek.


1. If there was a huge catastrophe, with a huge loss of life, there wouldn't be 7 million people to feed anymore

No. but after the near ELE the planet’s climate will not be hospitable for growing crops. Monsanto and subsidiaries are rapidly researching different genetic species that can withstand many different hostile growing scenarios.

Also, for space travel.


Governments would collapse, chaos would insue, people would be trying to survive in small communities. Terminator seed would not be helpful.

There will be (all over the planet areas) where people will choose to be self sufficient and responsible (and capable) for their own way of life and food. These are forming now and will thrive during the dead zone times and will become ‘fabled’ after the near ELE.

Terminator seeds will not be an issue for these communities. As they are not for areas like where I live now. Where I lived in Kansas it most definitely was an huge issue. By the way . . . the Midwest will be a dead zone.


. If there is no catastrophe, because I misunderstood you, there is something so dreadful coming that risking our health, our children, and our future will be worth it in the long run, as you agree that GMO foods are contributing to the rise in autisim, and severe health problems

Yes. Overpopulation and rapid climate change from unknown (to us) source. They are (and have been since 80’s (gmo food)) having to work so quickly with this technology to be ready for both the overpopulated global dead zones and the near ELE that they cannot take the usual time for safer implementation.

Also, which I can’t go into now. There is a reason why the current GMO food only effects certain people and effects certain people in different ways.


3. You know what is coming - and you assume that Bill does also, but you can't tell us because we can't handle the truth. But you think Bill should have told us, as it is his responsibility.

Let’s see how PA handles the info I have given in this post and I will let you know if you can handle the truth . . . . .

Yes. I think Bill knows . . . I have absolutely no proof it is only supposition on my part because of the contacts and inside information he has. I don’t think it is his responsibility . . .it just would give people who hear this make more informed and conclusive choices. We are responsible for ourselves.


4. You want to educate us but don't seem to be giving us any info that would help us see why your 180 on this extremely sensitive and controversial subject is the correct to look at it.

I am trying . . . it is complicated (for me to find the words) and emotionally hurtful.

[risveglio]

I have decided that I need to try to communicate more fully my seemingly controversial understanding of certain polarizing topics and issues as they are typically discussed on Avalon.
<snip>
I have done a 180 in the past few years ...
<snip>
So I am going to try hard to post as often as possible to try to communicate ...
<snip>
But I feel driven to try to communicate why my views seem so opposite and controversial. ...
<snip>
I have read and researched and applied this topic for over 20 years now.

<snip and a quote from a lower post>
And yes Celiacs diseases is very ugly and can be contributed directly to gmo food.

Which is why as an herbalist and organic grower I studied and learned how to heal this side effect of gmo food.

Really? That is it? Humph.

It is time for some Trololo! :dance3:

2Z4m4lnjxkY

Damn you. Now I will be hearing Trololo for a week.

[naste.de.lumina]

Hi blufire.

'Also, Which I can not go into now. There is a reason why the current GMO food only effects people and Certain Certain effects people in different ways. '

This statement would have something to do with the so-called crystal children, indigo or generalizing what people call special children?
If yes I can see a reason and schedule here.
Thank you.

[judymoon]

I apologize. As I said earlier in this thread I do not have much time to be on PA.

I am up usually by 4:00 or 5:00 and usually try to get in bed by 11:00 at night. As I have said many times I live almost totally off grid and self sufficient. This alone takes up almost every waking minute of my day. But I also have many other responsibilities.


4. You want to educate us but don't seem to be giving us any info that would help us see why your 180 on this extremely sensitive and controversial subject is the correct to look at it.

I am trying . . . it is complicated (for me to find the words) and emotionally hurtful.

Thank you for your reply. I will await further info before i comment again.

[Sierra]

Blufire,

The problem with the scenario you paint, is that it engenders or continues the paradigm of the haves and have nots, to an extreme level, where the have nots will look like the mice with tumors, and probably be used as slave material.

I don't like that agenda, and I am not putting my energy behind it. There are MANY scenarios out there, being supported by various groups on multiple dimensional levels, and no one scenario has captured the collective 3d reality yet. We (you and I and every person who has woken up) PLAY with scenarios in our sleep, and can mistake them for reality when we wake up, when it was just a game to see how a particular script would play out in 3d reality.

When I was a young adult, I dreamed I hung in outer space looking back at earth, hearing a radio voice listing major cities around the world, and the death toll from nuclear strikes. However, the entire dream was structured around the US-Soviet Union cold war, and we know how that went heheheh (did you know, at the time, a huge effort was put out by a large meditation group in the Detroit area on the US-Soviet Union issue, and very very shortly thereafter, the Berlin wall went down?). If it had been real, or accepted as the collective decision that this was the way to go, I would have thought the Mid East played a larger role, rather than being completely out of the picture I saw.

Terminator seeds will wreck and are wrecking our relationship with Mother Earth. Mother Earth is the issue here, not us. If a generation dies, that generation can put another dress (body) on and come back later. But if we have trashed the planet beyond repair, we're not going to enjoy coming back to reap the fruit of our labors, are we?

It is getting to the point where I want to say, give me liberty or give me death, not GMO's.

But I'll meditate first. :)

Sierra

[william r sanford72]

:bump: for post above...:wizard:

[blufire]

The problem with the scenario you paint, is that it engenders or continues the paradigm of the haves and have nots, to an extreme level, where the have nots will look like the mice with tumors, and probably be used as slave material.


No. With my now understanding of what I was shown as a child neither scenario is a have/have not future or humans as slave material. . . . . because what you have said is not reality at this time or truth so neither will it be truth or reality in the future.

Most have the victimized or apathetic attitude that each should ‘have’ what the people who are viewed as the ‘elite’ have. While at the same time those with this attitude spew hatred and bitterness at the very people they want to be like or have what they have. . . . . materialism and meaningless things. “HAVING” what the elite or wealthy HAVE will no more gain you true abundant peaceful existence than what you have now with this type of attitude and belief.

What does it mean to be a ‘have’ or a ‘have not’ and by extension a ‘slave’ or “free person’?

Greed and Apathy. (for the most part)

Greed, because most desire and want the wealthy extravagant lifestyle and money and things.

Apathy, because most want these things handed to them with the least amount of work or exertion as possible and in the cheapest amount possible. Most have come to view lifestyle as a right instead of something you earn and build.

Most view themselves (and will in the future) as slaves because of how they view the wealthy and elite. They view themselves as inferior and beneath the elite only from the ‘measuring tool’ of monetary wealth.

One of the most overwhelming parts of my now understanding of what I have remembered is ‘they’ do not have this attitude or view of us. I am speaking of the Shepherds and to a lesser degree the Controllers.


Sierra . . . . you completely side stepped my partial explanation of what lies ahead of us in our future and you only viewed the scenarios as bad or negative and this cannot be farther from the truth.

Look at the main threads on PA and news material. . . . it is not difficult to pragmatically analyze what is happening . . . what is difficult is putting all the pieces together to construct our future.

We all have the ability to construct what the future will be. . . . we are given clues and information all the time. I saw a post on a thread the other day about ‘them’ having a code of conduct or morality to show us what they are doing or what will be happening. . . . . I smiled . . . because yes they do and some of us are remembering more than others.

We are going Global.

We are going Global in order for our planet to be United enough to be able to venture into space and to take our place among our relatives there.

Going Global will be nasty and hell on earth, for at least 25 to 50 more years we will live among one another in turmoil, hatred and unrest.

If you choose this.

You can make the choice to step out of this process (going global) by becoming self reliant and responsible for your own livelihood. Live out of the way of what the Controllers (through direction of the Shepherds) will have to implement in order for humanity to even begin to Unite. This does not mean you have to live as in the 1800’s.

Be smart and use technology to your advantage. Watch closely what the Controllers are implementing rapidly now and what they are gearing up to implement next. These are clues to the knowledge they have. Use it and adapt.

GMO ‘food’ is one of the biggest implementations and most rapid . . . along with the chemtrails and weather modification technology.

Basically we have 2 futures and both are foundationally based on eventually (soon) being a United Planet. One economic structure, one leadership, one spiritual construct, one goal or concentration of achievement. This is very broad generalization.

Again as I said in previous post.

1st Future. We continue on toward globalization. We will continue to populate the earth exponentially. Our planet will continue to experience rapid climate change. This climate change is cyclical and being exacerbated by unseen (to us) force in space.

The only way (for the most of population) to be fed is through the technology and science of genetically altered and synthesized food. This overpopulation and food and other product manufacturing for the overpopulation will create ‘dead zones’ spread throughout the planet.

There will also be places where others live in eco balanced (with nature). We will also use certain technology wisely and to our befit and the benefit of our natural surroundings.

We will eventually achieve space travel and a United Planet within this 1st Future but it will take longer and be much more difficult and more traumatic.

There will be wars and constant unrest and turmoil because of the different religious beliefs and government strongholds and ideologies. We are seeing and experiencing this NOW.

Without the rapid implementation of technology and science like genetically altered and synthetic food there would be starvation globally and we would be experiencing this NOW on a much higher level.

Because of the rapid climate change weather modification and understanding is paramount to the ability to grow food . . . gmo or otherwise.



2nd Future. There will be a near ELE (extinction level event). Less than one billion humans will survive. The Controllers through the direction of our Shepherds have prepared and continue to prepare rapidly for this eventual reality.

The necessary rapid implementation of technology to prepare for survival of this ELE is problematic, but without it far less humans will survive and would not achieve space travel this time either.

Gmo and synthesized food along with extensive weather modification will be paramount to recovering from the near ELE

With the technology and science we have now (and will have) we will more successfully survive the ELE and be able to proceed into space and most of all the Future we see as in the Venus Project. http://www.thevenusproject.com/

After the near ELE, the Shepherds will be able to lead humanity into a United Planet almost effortlessly and we will take our place among the stars while enjoying planet earth in the way we are meant too.


Each of us has the choice in how we will live our lives. It is each of our own responsibility.

If you do not want to eat GMO food . . . .then don’t. ‘They’ are not making you. You have the option. You choose to hate and despise another fellow human being with a choice that you have made.

It is not ‘their’ or any other's responsibility to feed you. It is your responsibility in the lifestyle you choose.

It is very true that many do not have a choice. The Shepherds realize this and are addressing this need by advancing technology and science as rapidly as possible. Keeping ahead of exponential population growth is difficult at best.

[naste.de.lumina]

Hello blufire.
1 - Do you rely too much on the powers of those you call pastors. If you are on their side or just believing in them I do not know, but I'm sure you like them, will be disappointed enough, and before long, because the strength they have chosen (fear) is not the most powerful.
2 - You justify the technology of genetically modified foods, climate change, etc., as a need to feed a growing world population. Also do not know if you really believe that you're talking about, but the truth is that they never bothered to feed anyone but his own darkness and greed. So if they believe in an IT event, are using the world population as mere pets to laboratories so that they can develop their toys.
3 - We already are not going global and we will never, at least in these terms you are talking about.
4 - You may not believe it but there are many people in this world who do not give a crap about personal power and wealth as alleged in his statement about envy.
5 - The future is what you make, and it can be dark or light. The difference between being on one side or the other is the same as fear or love.
And I suspect that the fear of the controllers is so terrible about the destination they are creating for themselves.
I twist so you can choose the side that best seems based on wisdom and not on fear.
Here I close my participation in this discussion.
Thanks for listening and good luck.

[Sierra]

Oh dear, so the have_not, because they are the greedy, the apathetic, the inferior, the jealous poor, they will eat the GMO? Just how many have_not people do you know? Most of the haves on the planet are psychopaths, occupy positions of power, *are* the controllers.

And who will wield the sword of Damocles to divide the just from the damned? Will it be by economic category? By race? By neighborhood? If I am rich enough, clever enough, thuggish enough, I don't have to eat GMO? This sounds like an elitist and fascist program to me.

I have no interest in heading out to space. I have no intent to leave a bleeding, dying, and poisoned planet behind me. I would be so ashamed. I have no belief or interest in your scenarios. I reject your love of the controllers, I have no wish to be controlled. I want to be free, eat healthy, and live on a whole, and healthy planet.

As if any responsible confederation willing to treat with us out there... would appreciate our most selfish, destructive, violent, haves heading towards their territory, seeing what they have done to their own planet.

Caveat Emptor you know. We did treaty with the bad aliens and the bad aliens continue to transform our planet in their image, merrily raping, cannibalizing, and plundering humans and resources as they please. And lying through their little white fangs.

Blufire, I feel like you don't hear what you are saying. Actually saying.

You seem to be blind as a bat to the spiritual consequences of the path you lay out as the answer to the situation the controllers have created. They created the problem, they orchestrated the reaction, and oh woe is us, here comes their ever so profitable GMO solution?

No. Quite a few members have posted on this thread exposing the fallacy, the lie that says we cannot feed the world in a healthy organic way. This is fear based thinking, that it is necessary to divide people by a value system that is utterly rejected by most human beings.

According to the Hopi Prophecy Rock, the time of choice is almost over. Be careful what you wish for.

Sierra

[gripreaper]

I’m responding “stream of consciousness” to the basic tenets postulated in the justification for GMO foods. Apparently they are needed; regardless of which of the two scenarios’ laid out for us transpire.

But first, let me create some context.

The idea of terraforming the planet, altering the very DNA structure of humans, plants and animals, to survive an Extinction Level Event, based on information from disincarnate entities who are “Shepherd’s” to this planet, and have signaled the “controllers” ground crew, who care (on some level) about the genome, to prepare as rapidly as possible, regardless of the short term side effects, which are affecting certain segments of society, and “get er done” before it’s too late.

The other scenario has similar characteristics, the population exponentially overtaking the ability of the planet to support the massive numbers of people, who are unconsciously like parasites consuming their host without any ability to grow out of their basic survival instincts and their hedonistic carnal desires… but I digress, they are looking for saviors, want the controllers to lead the way and hope that the existing power structure will “do the right thing” and just want to live their lives, F’k like rabbits, and eat themselves into extinction on their own, while the controllers have other interests for their ownership of the genome and how the future should look, and how the survivors should partake in that future, and how they should be altered to partake in that future.

But messing with the DNA of this planet is nothing new, and neither is the existence of off world entities coming to this planet, terraforming it, altering the indigenous peoples and their DNA, and creating a class of people to do their bidding, whether these “Shepherds” who remain in contact with these controllers really care about the genome, or not is immaterial, or just use it for their own nefarious agenda’s, and is still up for debate as we do not have all the facts.

But, be that as it may, there are other celestial viewpoints, based on thousands of years of spiritual history, which view this planet as a school, and not a prison planet. This view has earth coming out of the dark ages of the 26,000 year precessional cycle, juxtaposed against the energies of the Yuga’s, with many more energies coalescing into unity and raising our consciousness towards ascension, without the need for Shepherd’s or outside influence to prepare us for an ELE, or any scenario which derails the dharmic decension from source into density, and the return to source, as conscious souls in individuated bodies, without the need for consuming life force through other vibratory biological plant and animal species.

You see, the need for food to be consumed through other life entities, such as plants and animals, negates the very essence of mankind’s inherent heritage of being full energetic beings with the ability to hold life force, drawing it straight from the matrix, remembering consciousness and the fullness of spirit, prior to descending into this density, with the collective dream of experiencing all of the many aspects of polarized electromagnetic extremes, without attachment to outcomes and certain energy signatures which cause us to create archetypes and symbols to justify and explain certain phenomenon, which is transitory and illusory at best, and delusional at worst.

So, perspective and context have everything to do with what the available timelines for the future are, not just based on linear time, with only the five physical senses to guide us (and maybe an extraterrestrial encounter or two, or five), but without the benefit of wholistic spherical time and the full enlivened abilities of the Siddhis consciousness of the upper celestial chakras, well grounded, with the terrestrial chakras, full of life force, and transmuted through the heart.

I do not have a worldview which holds out the two scenarios which you see. I’m a Bodhisattva, have been here since the beginning, hold the collective dream of full consciousness for all sentient beings to ultimately return to source in a body, with the ability to hold the full unpolarized conscious light spectrum in a body without exploding or disintegrating. This “state” does not require consumption of life force from other entities or sources, does not operate within a context of scarcity, does not hold the view of outside shepherds or beings overseeing the development of this planet and her indigenous species, and it does not give all the power to a controlling elite who somehow have an interest in the genome, and terraforming the planet for eventual outcomes based on absolute extinction levels events, or shepherd agendas, with the planet adapting to the changes with new DNA species able to survive and thrive under very altered adverse conditions.

I know you have gathered years of information to come up with your two composite scenarios, all very real I’m sure. I’m just saying, without invalidating your experience, that there may be other possibilities other than the two you have outlined.

[william r sanford72]

at harvest time the stockmarket will set prices based on false data.because THEY GROW MORE THEN THEY NEED....it is stored hidden and kept from the market only to screw with the price......this a fact...IF....freaking feeding a ever growing population was the true order of the day to be ready for the coming events why the hell grow so much that we can or we do...toss it ..let it rot...crazy man..plain and simple...sick...mind and soul...GMOs.pesticides..fungicides herbicides...thats if you dont wanna believe in chem trails...kill the bees to help me.because we cant change what is gonna happen..because the population cant stop humping like bunnys??...sounds like programing to me man.and i dont do programing anymore.if i can help it.i remember feeling hopeless when i sold everything ..how i felt like i couldnt stop it...so why even try...BULLL****....if we remember...then we no the power behind the light and love...thats in us.so.......i never give up.how could i???...telling kids parents there pop tart is deadly isnt any fun..but its a start.

[ulli]

I had to read these threads several times to really grasp that Bluefire is rationalizing Monsanto's systematic destruction of the natural world and their attempted monopoly on life (patents). Bluefire sees Monsanto as a necessary evil to provide food for the burgeoning population and it seems that he/she is suggesting that the toxins are ok for the "masses" in lieu of starvation. An either/or argument. The fix for the perceived food shortage is livestock. That is, of course, until Monsanto finds a way to acquire patents on cows and goats... Yes, Monsanto must be stopped. This is a remarkable solution:


http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_ reverse_climate_change.html

This is the most important TED talk of all time.
I'm glad to see it has already received i,2 million views, so someone is paying attention.
Sorry to go off-topic, but the situation is dire, so anyone coming up with proper solutions needs every possible plug we can give them.

[observer]

Hi bluefire,

This will be my only comment in this thread. I am responding because you quoted a statement I made in the thread that started this discussion (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59447-Seeds-of-Death-Unveiling-The-Lies-of-GMO-s-Full-Movie&p=684807&viewfull=1#post684807)in your OP.


"I find it unconscionable that any member, here at Avalon, would support the agenda of Monsanto.

Nearing the end of my time here on this desolate planet, and after a lifetime of searching for answers, it is my understanding - based on an evidential trail weaving all the way into remote antiquity - that this particular reality is controlled by an hyperdimensional reptilian species.... that this particular reality has been controlled by this species since the Dawn of Man. A lifetime's review of the evidence will lead one to this conclusion.

The ordering of this hyperdimensional control mechanism is contained within the secret chambers of every social structure organizing our societies. A Cabalistic structure of concentric circles of secrecy has permeated our foundational social structures since the Dawn of Man.

At the darkest circles of secrecy lies rituals designed to invoke this hyperdimensional presence.

The global elite are all an integral part of this control mechanism. The Priest Cults have managed the purse-strings of society since the Dawn of Man. This financial control continues to this day through the international banking networks.

With that said, when looking at the Monsanto issue one must ask the question, Qui bono? Hence, the Research Reference links I provided for the members at my comment #43 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59447-Seeds-of-Death-Unveiling-The-Lies-of-GMO-s-Full-Movie&p=684807&viewfull=1#post684807) in the "Re: Seeds of Death: Unveiling The Lies of GMO's - Full Movie" Thread.

Monsanto is at the core level of this hyperdimensional control mechanism.

The Mass of Humanity has been lied to since the Dawn of Man. It's a repeating template that reemerges within every theology ever conceived by the mind of man.

As long as this particular reality is in lock-down due to an hyperdimensional control matrix surrounding the planet, The Mass of Humanity will never escape into interstellar space. It's a myth.... a fantasy.... a lie.

[For the members to better understand what was said in this comment, I invite any concerned member wishing further research tools to visit the following thread:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65207-Gerald-Clark-The-Key-To-Understanding-Disclosure ]

[Sidney]

The problem with the scenario you paint, is that it engenders or continues the paradigm of the haves and have nots, to an extreme level, where the have nots will look like the mice with tumors, and probably be used as slave material.


No. With my now understanding of what I was shown as a child neither scenario is a have/have not future or humans as slave material. . . . . because what you have said is not reality at this time or truth so neither will it be truth or reality in the future.

Most have the victimized or apathetic attitude that each should ‘have’ what the people who are viewed as the ‘elite’ have. While at the same time those with this attitude spew hatred and bitterness at the very people they want to be like or have what they have. . . . . materialism and meaningless things. “HAVING” what the elite or wealthy HAVE will no more gain you true abundant peaceful existence than what you have now with this type of attitude and belief.

What does it mean to be a ‘have’ or a ‘have not’ and by extension a ‘slave’ or “free person’?

Greed and Apathy. (for the most part)

Greed, because most desire and want the wealthy extravagant lifestyle and money and things.

Apathy, because most want these things handed to them with the least amount of work or exertion as possible and in the cheapest amount possible. Most have come to view lifestyle as a right instead of something you earn and build.

Most view themselves (and will in the future) as slaves because of how they view the wealthy and elite. They view themselves as inferior and beneath the elite only from the ‘measuring tool’ of monetary wealth.

One of the most overwhelming parts of my now understanding of what I have remembered is ‘they’ do not have this attitude or view of us. I am speaking of the Shepherds and to a lesser degree the Controllers.


Sierra . . . . you completely side stepped my partial explanation of what lies ahead of us in our future and you only viewed the scenarios as bad or negative and this cannot be farther from the truth.

Look at the main threads on PA and news material. . . . it is not difficult to pragmatically analyze what is happening . . . what is difficult is putting all the pieces together to construct our future.

We all have the ability to construct what the future will be. . . . we are given clues and information all the time. I saw a post on a thread the other day about ‘them’ having a code of conduct or morality to show us what they are doing or what will be happening. . . . . I smiled . . . because yes they do and some of us are remembering more than others.

We are going Global.

We are going Global in order for our planet to be United enough to be able to venture into space and to take our place among our relatives there.

Going Global will be nasty and hell on earth, for at least 25 to 50 more years we will live among one another in turmoil, hatred and unrest.

If you choose this.

You can make the choice to step out of this process (going global) by becoming self reliant and responsible for your own livelihood. Live out of the way of what the Controllers (through direction of the Shepherds) will have to implement in order for humanity to even begin to Unite. This does not mean you have to live as in the 1800’s.

Be smart and use technology to your advantage. Watch closely what the Controllers are implementing rapidly now and what they are gearing up to implement next. These are clues to the knowledge they have. Use it and adapt.

GMO ‘food’ is one of the biggest implementations and most rapid . . . along with the chemtrails and weather modification technology.

Basically we have 2 futures and both are foundationally based on eventually (soon) being a United Planet. One economic structure, one leadership, one spiritual construct, one goal or concentration of achievement. This is very broad generalization.

Again as I said in previous post.

1st Future. We continue on toward globalization. We will continue to populate the earth exponentially. Our planet will continue to experience rapid climate change. This climate change is cyclical and being exacerbated by unseen (to us) force in space.

The only way (for the most of population) to be fed is through the technology and science of genetically altered and synthesized food. This overpopulation and food and other product manufacturing for the overpopulation will create ‘dead zones’ spread throughout the planet.

There will also be places where others live in eco balanced (with nature). We will also use certain technology wisely and to our befit and the benefit of our natural surroundings.

We will eventually achieve space travel and a United Planet within this 1st Future but it will take longer and be much more difficult and more traumatic.

There will be wars and constant unrest and turmoil because of the different religious beliefs and government strongholds and ideologies. We are seeing and experiencing this NOW.

Without the rapid implementation of technology and science like genetically altered and synthetic food there would be starvation globally and we would be experiencing this NOW on a much higher level.

Because of the rapid climate change weather modification and understanding is paramount to the ability to grow food . . . gmo or otherwise.



2nd Future. There will be a near ELE (extinction level event). Less than one billion humans will survive. The Controllers through the direction of our Shepherds have prepared and continue to prepare rapidly for this eventual reality.

The necessary rapid implementation of technology to prepare for survival of this ELE is problematic, but without it far less humans will survive and would not achieve space travel this time either.

Gmo and synthesized food along with extensive weather modification will be paramount to recovering from the near ELE

With the technology and science we have now (and will have) we will more successfully survive the ELE and be able to proceed into space and most of all the Future we see as in the Venus Project. http://www.thevenusproject.com/

After the near ELE, the Shepherds will be able to lead humanity into a United Planet almost effortlessly and we will take our place among the stars while enjoying planet earth in the way we are meant too.


Each of us has the choice in how we will live our lives. It is each of our own responsibility.

If you do not want to eat GMO food . . . .then don’t. ‘They’ are not making you. You have the option. You choose to hate and despise another fellow human being with a choice that you have made.

It is not ‘their’ or any other's responsibility to feed you. It is your responsibility in the lifestyle you choose.

It is very true that many do not have a choice. The Shepherds realize this and are addressing this need by advancing technology and science as rapidly as possible. Keeping ahead of exponential population growth is difficult at best.

Bluefire, I was going to pick this apart paragraph by paragraph, but I decided I really don't want to waste that much time. Either you really believe your own words here, or you have been paid to say all these wonderful things about the 2 LARGEST CATASTROPHIES
of our times.

GMO's and Weather manipulation(chemtrails), are the two things that have caused unrepairable damage to all living things. Even death. PERIOD

Im sorry, there are other ways of survival. There is hydroponics, there is sun-gazing, humans really can survive on very little.
Personally, I would much rather parish in the "EVENT", than survive another few years, knowing I am eating modified poison.
I actually feel sorry for you. You obviously do not have any intimate connection with our beautiful mother earth, and it is kind of disturbing to even see a "cheerleading" thread for the evildoers on this forum.

I have been sick with an engineered disease for over 20 years. If I had access to organic,healthy food, that is affordable, and had fresh "non chemical laden" air and water, I would have been well a longggggggg time ago. Monsanto has taken away our free will. We do not have the choice , to live on a planet with healthy nature. Healthy forests, lakes, oceans, birds, frogs, etc. GMO and roundup have killed much of the planets natural wonders already. I truly hope to god, that I parish in the ELE if/when it occurs, if my only outcome will be to live the scenario you seem to have privy to, that you "just can't talk about yet".

[gripreaper]

Hi bluefire,

This will be my only comment in this thread. I am responding because you quoted a statement I made in the thread that started this discussion (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59447-Seeds-of-Death-Unveiling-The-Lies-of-GMO-s-Full-Movie&p=684807&viewfull=1#post684807)in your OP.


"I find it unconscionable that any member, here at Avalon, would support the agenda of Monsanto.

Nearing the end of my time here on this desolate planet, and after a lifetime of searching for answers, it is my understanding - based on an evidential trail weaving all the way into remote antiquity - that this particular reality is controlled by an hyperdimensional reptilian species.... that this particular reality has been controlled by this species since the Dawn of Man. A lifetime's review of the evidence will lead one to this conclusion.

The ordering of this hyperdimensional control mechanism is contained within the secret chambers of every social structure organizing our societies. A Cabalistic structure of concentric circles of secrecy has permeated our foundational social structures since the Dawn of Man.

At the darkest circles of secrecy lies rituals designed to invoke this hyperdimensional presence.

The global elite are all an integral part of this control mechanism. The Priest Cults have managed the purse-strings of society since the Dawn of Man. This financial control continues to this day through the international banking networks.

With that said, when looking at the Monsanto issue one must ask the question, Qui bono? Hence, the Research Reference links I provided for the members at my comment #43 in the "Re: Seeds of Death: Unveiling The Lies of GMO's - Full Movie" Thread.

Monsanto is at the core level of this hyperdimensional control mechanism.

The Mass of Humanity has been lied to since the Dawn of Man. It's a repeating template that reemerges within every theology ever conceived by the mind of man.

As long as this particular reality is in lock-down due to an hyperdimensional control matrix surrounding the planet, The Mass of Humanity will never escape into interstellar space. It's a myth.... a fantasy.... a lie.

very prescient and right on Observer.

These very hyperdimensional beings are the ones who" "altered" the indigenous population's DNA template and created the chimeric hybrid's we are way before Atlantis. Since this hybridization and original human 1.0 these elite messed with, we only use about 10% of our brains, our synapses between the two hemispheres are cross wired, severely severed and predominantly left brain, our hormones are stunted, the Pineal is calcified, we reproduce like rabbits and consume everything in sight, and over 85% of us hover in the lower carnal realms of abject survival and fear, all due to the machinations of these hyperdimensional polarized nefarious entities who hybridized us and "think" they know what's best for the planet.

What I see in their agenda now, is eugenics. The reason for this protocol is to correct, or alter the original DNA templates they created before Atlantis, and terraform for a new human 2.0, which is more docile and more slave like.

I'm not seeing the benevolence which blufire is postulating exists in these hyperdimensional beings which visited her as a child, and what distinguishes them from the same elite control structure and the thousands of years of historical precedence, which shows their manipulations and their "shepherding" to be an utter and complete failure.

The reason we consume so much other life forms, is because we were designed that way by these shepherd's (like sheep) and they programmed our DNA to where we would reproduce ourselves and therefore eventually overcome this planets ability to sustain us. We are damaged goods, hybrids severed from our original indigenous humanity.

The legumes which have been modified by Monsanto are fed to the cows which we slaughter to eat the beef. This, in itself, is designed to keep us in the lower carnal realms and to cause us to shorten out lives. We cannot have 7 billion unconscious slaves running around consuming everything who live for hundreds of years, now can we? The entire diet having moved towards carnivorous consumption is suicide.

The answer is to learn righteousness (the right use of energy) and the body, mind and soul can heal itself. This is the great mystery, the great truth. WE DO NOT NEED to terraform this planet to deal with the manipulated and controlled hybrids which we are, and prepare for a new hybrid which these controllers have developed in a laboratory somewhere through genetic manipulation of our DNA. We don't need the new super soldier hybrids. We just need to recognize what happened, and change it.

Please show how these hyperdimensional entities (Shepherd's and controllers) are benevolent and have the best interests of the indigenous beings on this planet, and how they intend to fix their screwup.

[william r sanford72]

Hi bluefire,

This will be my only comment in this thread. I am responding because you quoted a statement I made in the thread that started this discussion (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59447-Seeds-of-Death-Unveiling-The-Lies-of-GMO-s-Full-Movie&p=684807&viewfull=1#post684807)in your OP.


"I find it unconscionable that any member, here at Avalon, would support the agenda of Monsanto.

Nearing the end of my time here on this desolate planet, and after a lifetime of searching for answers, it is my understanding - based on an evidential trail weaving all the way into remote antiquity - that this particular reality is controlled by an hyperdimensional reptilian species.... that this particular reality has been controlled by this species since the Dawn of Man. A lifetime's review of the evidence will lead one to this conclusion.

The ordering of this hyperdimensional control mechanism is contained within the secret chambers of every social structure organizing our societies. A Cabalistic structure of concentric circles of secrecy has permeated our foundational social structures since the Dawn of Man.

At the darkest circles of secrecy lies rituals designed to invoke this hyperdimensional presence.

The global elite are all an integral part of this control mechanism. The Priest Cults have managed the purse-strings of society since the Dawn of Man. This financial control continues to this day through the international banking networks.

With that said, when looking at the Monsanto issue one must ask the question, Qui bono? Hence, the Research Reference links I provided for the members at my comment #43 in the "Re: Seeds of Death: Unveiling The Lies of GMO's - Full Movie" Thread.

Monsanto is at the core level of this hyperdimensional control mechanism.

The Mass of Humanity has been lied to since the Dawn of Man. It's a repeating template that reemerges within every theology ever conceived by the mind of man.

As long as this particular reality is in lock-down due to an hyperdimensional control matrix surrounding the planet, The Mass of Humanity will never escape into interstellar space. It's a myth.... a fantasy.... a lie.

thats why iam going for the reset button...gonna smash it if i can.or keep coming back until i gett it done...my reset button anyways.nice post.

[gripreaper]

Well, a new paradigm would need to rebut the presumption that we operate exclusively within the Newtonian paradigm of the periodic chart of elements and the speed of light, the solidity of the universe.

Tesla proved that there is a higher vibration and frequency which taps into the matrix and utilizes the energy in a completely different way, and thus, the periodic chart of elements is malleable based on the quantum physics of this higher vibration.

Creation and evolution are in constant flux, based on the context and perspective of the observer and the vibration emanating from the creatrix.

[Sierra]

List of Monsanto food companies... I had no idea.

Courtesy of ljwheat:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60202-GMO-FOOD-Company-s-List-not-to-buy-from&p=689641&viewfull=1#post689641

[blufire]

Thank you Paul for removing the other thread from mine.

I know what I am trying to say is highly controversial. I am trying very hard not to react defensively.

It is more than difficult to go against what is currently the way of thinking.

It would appear I will always be on my own. And that's okay.

[blufire]

List of Monsanto food companies... I had no idea.

Courtesy of ljwheat:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60202-GMO-FOOD-Company-s-List-not-to-buy-from&p=689641&viewfull=1#post689641


Obviously from your posts on this thread. Most have no idea how many billions of people Monsanto technology is feeding. And we haven't even begun to broach the everyday products that are made from something as simple as corn.

Most do not even know the plastic water bottles that we buy millions of are made from gmo corn by products.

So how do we move forward without starving billions?

Sierra. .. you have mentioned the "haves and have nots" several times. I went on your profile page and took note of your beautiful home. Could you help to define at what point one is a have or have not?

Because many in the US and especially around the world would see you clearly as a Have.

We here in the States and other 1st world countries have choices and options. The majority of the 7 billion do not.

How do we make certain these souls are not forgotten?

[Sierra]

I know what I am trying to say is highly controversial. I am trying very hard not to react defensively.

It would appear I will always be on my own. And that's okay.

On your own? No way! Us Avalon_Conspiracy_Nuts_Monsanto_haters are a minority! Look at all the lovely GMO foods on the market, so healthy, so good for you!

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60202-GMO-FOOD-Company-s-List-not-to-buy-from&p=689797&viewfull=1#post689797


Its amazing, but the food with GMO has invaded everything...

Comprehensive List Of GMO Products and Companies
topinfopost.com

Baby Food ~ Genetically Engineered Ingredients

Nabisco (Phillip Morris)
-Arrowroot Teething Biscuits
-Infant formula Carnation Infant Formulas(Nestle)
-AlSoy
-Good Start
-Follow-Up
-Follow-Up Soy

Enfamil Infant Formulas (Mead Johnson)
-Enfamil with Iron
-Enfamil Low Iron
-Enfamil A.R.
-Enfamil Nutramigen
-Enfamil Lacto Free
-Enfamil 22
-Enfamil Next step (soy and milk-based varieties)
-Enfamil Pro-Soybee
Isomil Infant Formulas (Abbot Labs)
-Isomil Soy
-Isomil Soy for Diarrhea
-Similac(Abbot Labs)
-Similac Lactose Free
-Similac with Iron
-Similac Low Iron
-Similac Alimentum

Baking ~ Genetically Engineered Ingredients

Aunt Jemima (Quaker)
-Complete Pancake & Waffle Mix
-Buttermilk Pancake & Waffle Mix
-Cornbread Mix
-Easy Mix Coffee Cake

Betty Crocker (General Mills)
-Pie Crust Mix
-Original Pancake Mix
-Complete Pancake Mix
-Buttermilk Complete Pancake Mix
-Muffin Mixes
-Banana Nut
-Lemon Poppy Seed
-Blueberry
-Wild Blueberry
-Chocolate Chip
-Apple Streusel
-Quick Bread Mixes Banana
-Cinnamon Streusel
-Lemon Poppy Seed
-Cranberry Orange
-Gingerbread
-Cookie Mixes Chocolate Chip
-Double Chocolate Chunk
-Sugar
-Peanut Butter

Bisquik (Betty Crocker/General Mills)
-Original
-Reduced Fat
-Shake ‘n Pour Pancake Mix
-Shake ‘n Pour Buttermilk Pancake Mix
-Shake ‘n Pour Blueberry Pancake Mix

Duncan Hines (Aurora Foods)
-Muffin Mixes
-Kellogg’s All-Bran Apple Cinnamon
-Kellogg’s All-Bran Blueberry
-Blueberry
-Blueberry Crumb
-Chocolate Chip

Hungry Jack (Pillsbury)
-Buttermilk Pancake Mix
-Extra Light & Fluffy Pancake Mix (all varieties)
-Jiffy
-Corn Muffin Mix
-Blueberry Muffin Mix
-Raspberry Muffin Mix
-Pie Crust Mix

Mrs. Butterworths (Aurora Foods)
-Complete Pancake Mix
-Buttermilk Pancake Mix

Pepperidge Farms (Campbell’s)
-Buttermilk Pancake Mix
-Pillsbury
-Quick Bread & Muffin Mixes
-Blueberry
-Chocolate Chip
-Banana
-Cranberry
-Lemon Poppyseed
-Nut
-Hot Roll Mix
-Gingerbread

Bakers (Kraft/Phillip Morris)
-Unsweetened Chocolate
-Semi-Sweet Chocolate
-German Sweet Chocolate
-White Chocolate
-Hershey’s
-Semi-Sweet Baking Chips
-Milk Chocolate Chips
-Mini Kisses
-Nestle
-Toll House Semi-Sweet Chocolate Chips
-Milk Chocolate Chips
-White Chocolate
-Butterscotch Chips
-Semi-Sweet Chocolate Baking Bars

Bread ~ Genetically Engineered Ingredients

Holsum (Interstate Bakeries)
-Holsum Thin Sliced
-Roman Meal
-12 Grain
-Round Top
-Home Pride
-Buttertop White
-Buttertop Wheat

Pepperidge Farms (Campbell’s)
-Cinnamon Swirl
-Light Oatmeal
-Light Wheat
-100% Whole Wheat
-Hearty Slices
-7 Grain
-9 Grain
-Crunchy Oat
-Whole Wheat
-Light Side
-Oatmeal
-Wheat
-7 Grain
-Soft Dinner Rolls
-Club Rolls
-Sandwich Buns
-Hoagie Rolls

Thomas’ (Bestfoods)
-English Muffins Original
-Cinnamon Raisin
-Honey Wheat
-Oat Bran
-Blueberry
-Maple French Toast
Toast-r-Cakes Blueberry
Toast-r-Cakes Corn Muffins

Wonder (Interstate Bakeries)
-White Sandwich Bread
-Country Grain
-Buttermilk
-Thin Sandwich
-Light Wheat
-100% Stoneground Wheat
-Fat Free Multigrain
-Premium Potato
-Beefsteak Rye
-Wonder Hamburger Buns

Breakfast ~ Genetically Engineered Ingredients

Kellogg’s
-Pop Tarts (all varieties)
-Pop Tarts Snack Stix (all)
-Nutri-Grain Bars (all)
-Nutri-Grain Fruit Filled Squares (all)
-Nutri-Grain Twists (all)
-Fruit-Full Squares (all)

Nabisco (Nabisco/Phillip Morris)
-Fruit & Grain Bars (all varieties)
-Nature Valley (General Mills)
-Oats & Honey Granola Bars
-Peanut Butter Granola Bars
-Cinnamon Granola Bars

Pillsbury (General Mills)
-Toaster Scrambles & Strudels (all varieties)

Quaker
-Chewy Granola Bars (all varieties)
-Fruit & Oatmeal Bars (all varieties)
-Aunt Jemima Frozen Waffles
-Buttermilk
-Blueberry

Eggo Frozen Waffles (Kellogg’s)
-Homestyle
-Buttermilk
-Nutri-Grain Whole Wheat
-Nutri-Grain Multi Grain
-Cinnamon Toast
-Blueberry
-Strawberry
-Apple Cinnamon
-Banana Bread

Hungry Jack Frozen Waffles (Pillsbury/General Mills)
-Homestyle
-Buttermilk

Cereal ~ Genetically Engineered Ingredients

General Mills
-Cheerios
-Wheaties
-Total
-Corn Chex
-Wheat Chex
-Lucky Charms
-Trix
-Kix
-Golden Grahams
-Cinnamon Grahams
-Count Chocula
-Honey Nut Chex
-Frosted Cheerios
-Apple Cinnamon Cheerios
-Multi-Grain Cheerios
-Frosted Wheaties
-Brown Sugar & Oat Total
-Basic 4
-Reeses Puffs
-French Toast Crunch

Kellogg’s
-Frosted Flakes
-Corn Flakes
-Special K
-Raisin Bran
-Rice Krispies
-Corn Pops
-Product 19
-Smacks
-Froot Loops
-Marshmallow Blasted Fruit Loops
-Apple Jacks
-Crispix
-Smart Start
-All-Bran
-Complete Wheat Bran
-Complete Oat Bran
-Just Right Fruit & Nut
-Honey Crunch Corn Flakes
-Raisin Bran Crunch
-Cracklin’ Oat Bran

Country Inn Specialties (all varieties)
-Mothers Cereals (Quaker)
-Toasted Oat Bran
-Peanut Butter Bumpers
-Groovy Grahams
-Harvest Oat Flakes
-Harvest Oat Flakes w/Apples & Almonds
-Honey Round Ups

Post (Kraft-Phillip Morris)
-Raisin Bran
-Bran Flakes
-Grape Nut Flakes
-Grape Nut O’s
-Fruit & Fibre date, raisin and walnut
-Fruit & Fibre peach, raisin and almond
-Honey Bunch of Oats
-Honey Nut Shredded Wheat
-Honey Comb
-Golden Crisp
-Waffle Crisp
-Cocoa Pebbles
-Cinna-Crunch Pebbles
-Fruity Pebbles
-Alpha-Bits
-Post Selects Cranberry Almond
-Post Selects Banana Nut Crunch
-Post Selects Blueberry Morning
-Post Selects Great Grains

Quaker
-Life
-Cinnamon Life
-100% Natural Granola
-Toasted Oatmeal
-Toasted Oatmeal Honey Nut
-Oat Bran
-Cap’n Crunch
-Cap’n Crunch Peanut Butter Crunch
-Cap’n Crunch Crunchling Berries

Chocolate ~ Genetically Engineered Ingredients

Cadbury (Cadbury/Hershey’s)
-Mounds
-Almond Joy
-York Peppermint Patty
-Dairy Milk
-Roast Almond
-Fruit & Nut
-Hershey’s
-Kit-Kat
-Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups
-Mr. Goodbar
-Special Dark
-Milk Chocolate
-Kisses
-Symphony

Kraft (Kraft/Phillip Morris)
-Toblerone (all varieties)
-Mars

-M&M (all varieties)
-Snickers
-Three Musketeers
-Milky Way
-Twix

Nestle
-Crunch
-Milk Chocolate
-Chunky
-Butterfinger
-100 Grand

Carnation (Nestle)

Hot Cocoa Mixes:
-Rich Chocolate
-Double Chocolate
-Milk Chocolate
-Marshmallow Madness
-Mini Marshmallow
-No Sugar

Hershey’s
-Chocolate Syrup
-Special Dark Chocolate Syrup
-Strawberry Syrup

Nestle
-Nesquik
-Strawberry Nesquik

Swiss Miss (ConAgra)
-Chocolate Sensation
-Milk Chocolate
-Marshmallow Lovers
-Marshmallow Lovers Fat Free
-No Sugar Added

Condiments ~ Genetically Engineered Ingredients

Del Monte (Nabisco/Phillip Morris)
-Ketchup
-Heinz
-Ketchup (regular & no salt)
-Chili Sauce
-Cocktail Sauce
-Heinz 57 Steak Sauce

Hellman’s (Bestfoods)
-Real Mayonnaise
-Light Mayonnaise
-Low-Fat Mayonnaise

Hunt’s (ConAgra)
-Ketchup (regular & no salt)
-KC Masterpiece
-Original BBQ sauce
-Garlic & Herb Marinade
-Honey Teriyaki Marinade

Kraft (Kraft/Phillip Morris)
-Miracle Whip (all varieties)
-Kraft Mayonnaise (all)
-Thick & Spicy BBQ sauces (all varieties)
-Char Grill BBQ sauce
-Honey Hickory BBQ sauce

Nabisco (Nabiso/Phillip Morris)
-A-1 Steak Sauce
Open Pit (Vlasic/Campbells)
-BBQ sauces (all)
-Chi-Chi’s (Hormel)
-Fiesta Salsa (all varieties)
-Old El Paso (Pillsbury)
-Thick & Chunky Salsa
-Garden Pepper Salsa
-Taco Sauce
-Picante Sauce

Ortega (Nestle)
-Taco Sauce
-Salsa Prima Homestyle
-Salsa Prima Roasted Garlic
-Salsa Prima 3 Bell Pepper
-Thick & Chunky Salsa

Pace (Campbells)
-Chunky Salsa
-Picante Sauce

Tostitos Salsa (Frito-Lay/Pepsi)
-All Natural
-All Natural Thick & Chunky
-Roasted Garlic
-Restaurant Style

Cookies ~Genetically Engineered Ingredients

Delicious Brands (Parmalat)
-Animal Crackers
-Ginger Snaps
-Fig Bars
-Oatmeal
-Sugar-Free Duplex
-Honey Grahams
-Cinnamon Grahams
-Fat Free Vanilla Wafers
-English Toffee Heath Cookies
-Butterfinger Cookies
-Skippy Peanut Butter Cookies

Famous Amos (Keebler/Flowers Industries)
-Chocolate Chip
-Oatmeal Raisin
-Chocolate Sandwich
-Peanut Butter Sandwich
-Vanilla Sandwich
-Oatmeal Macaroon Sandwich

Frookies (Delicious Brands/Parmalat)
-Peanut Butter Chunk
-Chocolate Chip
-Double Chocolate
-Frookwich Vanilla
-Frookwich Chocolate
-Frookwich Peanut Butter
-Frookwich Lemon
-Funky Monkeys Chocolate
-Ginger Snaps
-Lemon Wafers

Keebler (Keebler/Flowers Industries)
-Chips Deluxe
-Sandies
-E.L. Fudge
-Soft Batch Chocolate Chip
-Golden Vanilla Wafers
-Droxies
-Vienna Fingers
-Fudge Shoppe Fudge Stripes
-Fudge Shoppe Double Fudge & Caramel
-Fudge Shoppe Fudge Stix
-Fudge Shoppe Peanut Butter Fudge Stix
-Country Style Oatmeal
-Graham Originals
-Graham Cinnamon Crisp
-Graham Chocolate
-Graham Honey Low Fat
-Crème Filled Wafers
-Chocolate Filled Wafers

Nabisco (Nabisco/Phillip Morris)
-Oreo,(all varieties)
-Chips Ahoy!(all varieties)
-Fig Newtons (and all Newtons varities)
-Lorna Doone
-Nutter Butters
-Barnum Animal Crackers
-Nilla Wafers
-Nilla Chocolate Wafers
-Pecanz Shortbread
-Family Favorites Oatmeal
-Famous Wafers
-Fudge Covered Mystic Sticks
-Honey Maid Graham Crackers
-Honey Maid Cinnamon Grahams
-Honey Maid Chocolate Grahams
-Honey Maid Oatmeal Crunch
-Teddy Grahams
-Teddy Grahams Cinnamon
-Teddy Grahams Chocolate
-Teddy Grahams Chocolate Chips
-Café Cremes Vanilla
-Café Crème Cappuccino

Pepperidge Farm (Campbell’s)
-Milano
-Mint Milano
-Chessmen
-Bordeaux
-Brussels
-Geneva
-Chocolate Chip
-Lemon Nut
-Shortbread
-Sugar
-Ginger Men
-Raspberry Chantilly
-Strawberry Verona
-Chocolate Mocha Salzburg
-Chocolate Chunk Chesapeake
-Chocolate Chunk Nantucket
-Chocolate Chunk Sausalito
-Oatmeal Raisin Soft Baked

Sesame Street (Keebler)
-Cookie Monster
-Chocolate Chip
-Chocolate Sandwich
-Vanilla Sandwich
-Cookie Pals
-Honey Grahams
-Cinnamon Grahams
-Frosted Grahams

Snack Wells (Nabisco/Phillip Morris)
-Devil’s Food
-Golden Devil’s Food
-Mint Crème
-Coconut Crème
-Chocolate Sandwich
-Chocolate Chip
-Peanut Butter Chip
-Double Chocolate Chip

Crackers ~ Genetically Engineered Ingredients

Keebler (Keebler/Flowers Industries)
-Town House
-Club
-Munch ‘Ems (all varieties)
-Wheatables
-Zesta Saltines
-Toasteds (Wheat, Onion, Sesame & Butter Crisps)
-Snax Stix (Wheat, Cheddar & original)
-Harvest Bakery (Multigrain, Butter, Corn Bread)

Nabisco (Nabisco/Phillip Morris)
-Ritz (all varieties)
-Wheat Thins (all)
-Wheatsworth
-Triscuits
-Waverly
-Sociables
-Better Cheddars
-Premium Saltines (all)
-Ritz Snack Mix (all)
-Vegetable Flavor Crisps
-Swiss Cheese Flavor Crisps
-Cheese Nips (all)
-Uneeda Biscuits

Pepperidge Farm (Campbell’s)
-Butter Thins
-Hearty Wheat
-Cracker Trio
-Cracker Quartet
-Three Cheese Snack Stix
-Sesame Snack Stix
-Pumpernickel Snack Stix
-Goldfish (original, cheddar, parmesan, pizza, pretzel)
-Goldfish Snack Mix (all)

Red Oval Farms (Nabisco/Phillip Morris)
-Stoned Wheat Thin (all varieties)
-Crisp ‘N Light Sourdough Rye
-Crisp ‘N Light Wheat

Sunshine (Flowers Industries)
-Cheeze-It (original & reduced fat)
-Cheeze-It White Cheddar
-Cheeze-It Party Mix
-Krispy Original Saltines

Frozen Dinners ~ Genetically Engineered Ingredients

Banquet (ConAgra)
-Pot Pies (all varieties)
-Fried Chicken
-Salisbury Steak
-Chicken Nugget Meal
-Pepperoni Pizza Meal

Budget Gourmet (Heinz)
-Roast Beef Supreme
-Beef Stroganoff
-Three Cheese Lasagne
-Chicken Oriental & Vegeatble
-Fettuccini Primavera

Green Giant (Pillsbury)
-Rice Pilaf with Chicken Flavored Sauce
-Rice Medley with Beef Flavored Sauce
-Primavera Pasta
-Pasta Accents Creamy Cheddar
-Create-a-Meals Parmesan Herb Chicken
-Cheesy Pasta and Vegetable
-Beef Noodle
-Sweet & Sour
-Mushroom Wine Chicken

Healthy Choice (ConAgra)
-Stuffed Pasta Shells
-Chicken Parmagiana
-Country Breaded Chicken
-Roast Chicken Breast
-Beef Pot Roast
-Chicken & Corn Bread
-Cheese & Chicken Tortellini
-Lemon Pepper Fish
-Shrimp & Vegetable
-Macaroni & Cheese

Kid Cuisine (ConAgra)
-Chicken Nugget Meal
-Fried Chicken
-Taco Roll Up
-Corn Dog
-Cheese Pizza
-Fish Stix
-Macaroni & Cheese

Lean Cuisine (Stouffer’s/Nestle)
-Skillet Sensations Chicken & Vegetable
-Broccoli & Beef
-Homestyle Beef
-Teriyaki Chicken
-Chicken Alfredo
-Garlic Chicken
-Roast Turkey

-Hearty Portions Chicken Florentine
-Beef Stroganoff
-Cheese & Spinach Manicotti
-Salisbury Steak

-Café Classics Baked Fish
-Baked Chicken
-Chicken a L’Orange
-Chicken Parmesan
-Meatloaf with Whipped Potatoes

-Everyday Favorites Chicken Fettuccini
-Chicken Pie
-Angel Hair Pasta
-Three Bean Chili with Rice
-Macaroni & Cheese

Marie Callenders (ConAgra)
-Chicken Pot Pie
-Lasagna & Meat Sauce
-Turkey & Gravy
-Meat Loaf & Gravy
-Country Fried Chicken & Gravy
-Fettuccini with Broccoli & Cheddar
-Roast Beef with Mashed Potatoes
-Country Fried Pork Chop with Gravy
-Chicken Cordon Bleu

Ore-Ida Frozen Potatoes (Heinz)
-Fast Fries
-Steak fries
-Zesties
-Shoestrings
-Hash Browns
-Tater Tots
-Potato Wedges
-Crispy Crunchies

Rosetto Frozen Pasta (Heinz)
-Cheese Ravioli
-Beef Ravioli
-Italian Sausage Ravioli
-Eight Cheese Stuffed Shells
-Eight Cheese Broccoli Stuffed Shells

Stouffer’s (Nestle)
-Family Style Favorites Macaroni & Cheese
-Stuffed Peppers
-Broccoli au Gratin
-Meat Loaf in Gravy
-Green Bean & Mushroom Casserole

-Homestyle Meatloaf
-Salisbury Steak
-Chicken Breast in Gravy

-Hearty Portions Salisbury Steak
-Chicken Fettucini
-Meatloaf with Mashed Potatoes
-Chicken Pot Pie

Swanson (Vlasic/Campbells)
-Meat Loaf
-Fish & Chips
-Salisbury Steak
-Chicken Nuggets
-Hungry Man Fried Chicken
-Roast Chicken
-Fisherman’s Platter
-Pork Rib

Voila! (Bird’s Eye/Agri-Link Foods)
-Chicken Voila! Alfredo
-Chicken Voila! Garlic
-Chicken Voila! Pesto
-Chicken Voila! Three Cheese
-Steak Voila! Beef Sirloin
-Shrimp Voila! Garlic

Weight Watchers (Heinz)
-Smart Ones Fiesta Chicken
-Basil Chicken
-Ravioli Florentine
-Fajita Chicken
-Roasted Vegetable Primavera

Energy Bars & Drinks ~ Genetically Engineered Ingredients

Power Bars

Power Bar (Nestle)
-Oatmeal Raisin
-Apple Cinnamon
-Peanut Butter
-Vanilla Crisp
-Chocolate Peanut Butter
-Mocha
-Banana
-Wild Berry
-Harvest Bars Apple Crisp
-Blueberry
-Chocolate Fudge Brownie
-Strawberry
-Peanut Butter Chocolate Chip
Drink Mixes

Carnation Instant Breakfast Mix (Nestle)
-Creamy Milk Chocolate
-Classic Chocolate
-French Vanilla
-Strawberry
-Café Mocha

Heat & Serve Meals ~ Genetically Engineered Ingredients

Chef Boyardee (ConAgra)
-Beefaroni
-Macaroni & Cheese
-Mini Ravioli
-ABC’s & 123′s

Dinty Moore (Hormel)
-Beef Stew
-Turkey Stew
-Chicken & Dumplings
-Hormel
-Chili with Beans
-Chili No Beans
-Vegetarian Chili with Beans

Kids’ Kitchen (Hormel)
-Spaghetti Rings with Meatballs
-Macaroni & Cheese
-Pizza Wedges with 3 Cheese

Franco-American (Campbell’s)
-Spaghetti O’s
-Mini Ravioli
-Power Rangers Pasta in Sauce

Meat & Dairy Alternatives ~ Genetically Engineered Ingredients

Loma Linda(Worthington/Kellogg’s*)
-Meatless Chik Nuggest

Morningstar (Worthington/Kellogg’s*)
-Harvest Burger
-Better ‘n Burgers
-Garden Veggie Patties
-Grillers Burgers
-Black Bean Burger
-Chicken Patties

Natural Touch (Worthington/Kellogg’s*)
-Garden Vegetable Pattie
-Black Bean Burger
-Okra Pattie
-Lentil Rice Loaf
-Nine Bean Loaf

Worthington (Worthington/Kellogg’s*)
-Vegetarian Burger
-Savory Slices

Dairy Alternatives

Nutra Blend Soy Beverage(Bestfoods)
-Original
-Vanilla
-Apple
-Orange
*A company letter states that they are in the process of converting to non-genetically modified “proteins” in all products.

Meal Mixes & Sauce Packets ~ Genetically Engineered Ingredients

Betty Crocker (General Mills)
-Garden Vegetable Pilaf
-Creamy Herb Risotto
-Garlic Alfredo Fettuccini
-Bowl Appetit Cheddar Broccoli
-Macaroni & Cheese
-Pasta Alfredo

Knorr (Bestfoods)
-Mushroom Risotto Italian Rice
-Broccoli au Gratin Risotto
-Vegetable Primavera Risotto
-Risotto Milanese
-Original Pilf
-Chicken Pilaf
-Rotini with 4 Cheese
-Bow Tie Pasta with Chicken & Vegetable
-Penne with Sun-Dried Tomato
-Fettuccini with Alfredo
-Classic Sauce Packets Hollandaise

Béarnaise
-White
-Brown
-Lemon Herb
-Mushroom Brown
-Onion
-Roasted Chicken
-Roasted Pork
-Roasted Turkey

Pasta Sauce Packets Alfredo
-Four Cheese
-Carbonara
-Pesto
-Garlic Herb

Lipton (Unilever)
-Rice & Sauce Packets Chicken Broccoli
-Cheddar Broccoli
-Beef Flavor
-Spanish
-Chicken Flavor
-Creamy Chicken
-Mushroom

-Sizzle & Stir Skillet Supers Lemon Garlic Chicken & Rice
-Spanish Chicken & Rice
-Herb Chicken & Bowties
-Cheddar Chicken & Shells

Near East (Quaker)
-Spicy Tomato Pasta Mix
-Roasted Garlic & Olive Oil Pasta Mix
-Falafel Mix
-Lentil Pilaf
-Couscous
-Tomato Lentil
-Parmesan
-Toasted Pinenut
-Herb Chicken
-Broccoli & Cheese
-Curry

Pasta Roni (Quaker)
-Fettuccini Alfredo
-Garlic Alfredo
-Angel Hair Pasta with Herbs
-Angel Hair Pasta with Parmesan Cheese
-Angel Hair Pasta with Tomato Parmesan
-Angel Hair Pasta Primavera
-Garlic & Olive Oil with Vermicelli

Rice-a-Roni (Quaker)
-Rice Pilaf
-Beef
-Chicken
-Fried Rice
-Chicken & Broccoli
-Long Grain & Wild Rice
-Broccoli au Gratin

Uncle Ben’s (Mars)
-Long Grain & Wild Rice (Original & with Garlic)
-Brown & Wild Rice Mushroom
-Country Inn Mexican Fiesta
-Country Inn Oriental Fried Rice
-Country Inn Chicken & Vegetable
-Country Inn Chicken & Broccoli
-Natural Select Chicken & Herb
-Natural Select Tomato & Basil
-Chef’s Recipe Chicken & Vegetable Pilaf
-Chef’s Recipe Beans & Rice
-Chef’s Recipe Broccoli Rice

Frozen Pizza ~ Genetically Engineered Ingredients

Celeste (Aurora Foods)
-Supreme
-Pepperoni
-Vegetable
-Four Cheese
-Deluxe
-Cheese

Tombstone (Kraft/Phillip Morris)
-Pepperoni
-Supreme
-Sausage & Pepperoni
-Extra Cheese
-Stuffed Crust
-Three Cheese

Totino’s (Pillsbury)
-Crisp Crust
-Pepperoni
-Combination

Snack Foods ~ Genetically Engineered Ingredients

Act II Microwave Popcorn (ConAgra)
-Butter
-Extreme Butter
-Corn on the Cob

Frito-Lay* (PepsiCo)
-Lays Potato Chips (all varieties)
-Ruffles Potato Chips (all)
-Doritos Corn Chips (all)
-Tostitos Corn Chips (all)
-Fritos Corn Chips (all)
-Cheetos (all)
-Rold Gold Pretzels (all)
-Cracker Jack Popcorn

Healthy Choice Microwave Popcorn (ConAgra)
-Organic Corn (soy/canola oils)

Mothers Corn Cakes (Quaker)
-Butter Pop

Orville Redenbacher Microwave Popcorn (ConAgra)
-Original
-Homestyle
-Butter
-Smart Pop
-Pour Over
-Orville Redenbacher Popcorn Cakes
-Chocolate
-Caramel
-Orville Redenbacher Mini Popcorn Cakes
-Butter
-Peanut Caramel
-Chocolate Peanut

Pop Secret Microwave Popcorn (Betty Crocker/General Mills)
-Natural
-Homestyle
-Jumbo Pop
-Extra Butter
-Light
-94% Fat Free Butter

Pringles (Procter & Gamble)
-Original
-Low Fat
-Pizza-licious
-Sour Cream & Onion
-Salt & Vinegar
-Cheezeums
-Quaker Rice Cakes
-Peanut Butter
-Chocolate Crunch
-Cinnamon Streusel
-Mini
-Chocolate
-Ranch
-Sour Cream & Onion
-Apple Cinnamon
-Caramel Corn
-Quaker Corn Cakes
-White Cheddar
-Caramel Corn
-Strawberry Crunch
-Caramel Chocolate Chip
*Frito has informed its corn and potato suppliers that the company wishes to avoid GE crops, but acknowledges that canola or other oils and ingredients in its products may be from GE sources.

Soda & Juice Drinks ~ Genetically Engineered Ingredients

Coca Cola (Coca Cola)
Sprite
Cherry Coke
Barq’s Root Beer
Minute Maid Orange
Minute Maid Grape
Surge
Ultra
PepsiCo
Pepsi
Slice
Wild Cherry Pepsi
Mug Root Beer
Mountain Dew
Cadbury/Schweppes
7-Up
Dr. Pepper
A & W Root Beer
Sunkist Orange
Schweppes Ginger Ale

Capri Sun juices (Kraft/Phillip Morris)
-Red Berry
-Surfer Cooler
-Splash Cooler
-Wild Cherry
-Strawberry Kiwi
-Fruit Punch
-Pacific Cooler
-Strawberry
-Orange
-Grape

Fruitopia (Coca Cola)
-Grape Beyond
-Berry Lemonade
-Fruit Integration
-Kiwiberry Ruckus
-Strawberry Passion
-Tremendously Tangerine

Fruit Works (PepsiCo)
-Strawberry Melon
-Peach Papaya
-Pink Lemonade
-Apple Raspberry

Gatorade (Quaker)
-Lemon Lime
-Orange
-Fruitpunch
-Fierce Grape
-Frost Riptide Rush

Hawaiian Punch (Procter & Gamble)
-Tropical Fruit
-Grape Geyser
-Fruit Juicy Red
-Strawberry Surfin

Hi-C (Coca Cola)
-Pink Lemonade
-Watermelon Rapids
-Boppin’ Berry
-Tropical Punch
-Smashin’ Wildberry
-Blue Cooler
-Blue Moon Berry
-Orange
-Cherry

Kool Aid (Kraft/Phillip Morris)
-Blastin’ Berry Cherry
-Bluemoon Berry
-Kickin’ Kiwi Lime
-Tropical Punch
-Wild Berry Tea
-Ocean Spray
-Cranberry Juice Cocktail
-Cranapple
-CranGrape
-CranRaspberry
-CranStrawberry
-CranMango

Squeeze It (Betty Crocker/General Mills)
-Rockin’ Red Puncher
-Chucklin’ Cherry
-Mystery 2000

Sunny Delight (Procter & Gamble)
-Sunny Delight Original
-Sunny Delight With Calcium Citrus Punch
-Sunny Delight California Style Citrus Punch
Tang juices (Kraft/Phillip Morris)
-Orange Uproar
-Fruit Frenzy
-Berry Panic

Tropicana Twisters (PepsiCo)
-Grape Berry
-Apple Raspberry Blackberry
-Cherry Berry
-Cranberry Raspberry Strawberry
-Pink Grapefruit
-Tropical Strawberry
-Orange Cranberry
-Orange Strawberry Banana

V-8 (Campbells)
-V8 Tomato Juices (all varieties)
-Strawberry Kiwi
-Strawberry Banana
-Fruit Medley
-Berry Blend
-Citrus Blend
-Apple Medley
-Tropical Blend
-Island Blend

Soup ~ Genetically Engineered Ingredients

Campbell’s
-Tomato
-Chicken Noodle
-Cream of Chicken
-Cream of Mushroom
-Cream of Celery
-Cream of Broccoli
-Cheddar Cheese
-Green Pea
-Healthy Request Chicken Noodle
-Cream of Chicken
-Cream of Mushroom
-Cream of Celery
-Campbell’s Select Roasted Chicken with Rice

-Grilled Chicken with Sundried Tomatoes
-Chicken Rice
-Vegetable Beef

-Chunky Beef with Rice
-Hearty Chicken & Vegetable
-Pepper Steak
-Baked Potato with Steak & Cheese
-New England Clam Chowder

-Soup to Go Chicken Noodle
-Chicken Rice
-Garden Vegetable
-Vegetable Beef & Rice

Simply Home Chicken Noodle
Chicken Rice
Garden Vegetable
Vegetable Beef with Pasta

Healthy Choice (ConAgra)
-Country Vegetable
-Fiesta Chicken
-Bean & Pasta
-Chicken Noodle
-Chicken with Rice
-Minestrone

Pepperidge Farms (Campbell’s)
-Corn Chowder
-Lobster Bisque
-Chicken & Wild Rice
-New England Clam Chowder
-Crab Soup

Progresso (Pillsbury)
-Tomato Basil
-Chicken Noodle
-Chicken & Wild Rice
-Chicken Barley
-Lentil
-New England Clam Chowder
-Zesty Herb Tomato
-Roasted Chicken with Rotini
-Fat Free Minestrone
-Fat Free Chicken Noodle
-Fat Free Lentil
-Fat Free Roast Chicken

Tomatoes & Sauces ~ Genetically Engineered Ingredients

Del Monte (Nabisco/Phillip Morris)
-Tomato Sauce

Five Brothers Pasta Sauces (Lipton/Unilever)
-Summer Vegetable
-Five Cheese
-Roasted Garlic & Onion
-Tomato & Basil

Healthy Choice Pasta Sauces (ConAgra)
-Traditional
-Garlic & Herb
-Sun-Dried Tomato & Herb

Hunts (ConAgra)
-Traditional Spaghetti Sauce
-Four Cheese Spaghetti Sauce
-Tomato Sauce
-Tomato Paste

Prego Pasta Sauces (Campbells)
-Tomato, Basil & Garlic
-Fresh Mushroom
-Ricotta Parmesan
-Meat Flavored
-Roasted Garlic & Herb
-Three Cheese
-Mini-Meatball
-Chicken with Parmesan

Ragu Sauces (Lipton/Unilever)
-Old World Traditional
-Old World with Meat
-Old World Marinara
-Old World with Mushrooms
-Ragu Robusto Parmesan & Romano
-Ragu Robusto Roasted Garlic
-Ragu Robusto Sweet Italian Sausage
-Ragu Robusto Six Cheese
-Ragu Robusto Tomato, Olive Oil & Garlic
-Ragu Robusto Classic Italian Meat
-Chunky Garden Style Super Garlic
-Chunky Garden Style Garden Combo
-Chunky Garden Style Tomato, Garlic & Onion
-Chunky Garden Style Tomato, Basil & Italian Cheese
-Pizza Quick Traditional

"In a multitude of counsel there is wisdom." If 100 people know what you are thinking of eating, and 99 say, "Uh oh... " you might want to re-examine your theories.

Uh. You *do* eat GMO, yes?

Sierra

[blufire]

Answer my question above please.

When do we stop being a Have and become a Have Not?

I am a have because of the lifestyle and choices I have.

No I do not (as a rule) eat gmo food. Because I have the choice in this country to Choose.

But many here and billions around the world do not.

We do not have the technology at this point.

So again how do we help the billions who at this point in our global technological advancement feed the many?

Help me to understand this. . . .

[Sierra]

Most have no idea how many billions of people Monsanto technology is feeding. And we haven't even begun to broach the everyday products that are made from something as simple as corn.

Most do not even know the plastic water bottles that we buy millions of are made from gmo corn by products.

So how do we move forward without starving billions?

Sierra. .. you have mentioned the "haves and have nots" several times. I went on your profile page and took note of your beautiful home. Could you help to define at what point one is a have or have not?

Because many in the US and especially around the world would see you clearly as a Have.

We here in the States and other 1st world countries have choices and options. The majority of the 7 billion do not.

How do we make certain these souls are not forgotten?

Blufire, Tch, tch, tch. I am 64, and I have been a home owner for one year of my life. Never lived in a house once I became independent, not once, just trailers and apartments. Your observation of my home is specious, and owning a house does not blind me to the ills of the world nor does it put me into the category of haves as you define it.

Of course we haves have it better off in the U.S., Europe, the Commonwealth. (Until we are rounded up, concentrated into camps, and executed that is.) And in my opinion, we the wealthy, the fed, the housed, can use our energy to vehemently object to the plans the Illuminati/Military/Industrial have for the poor. The global poor. In fact, I consider it our duty before G*d to object. The poor have no time or energy to fight these battles. WE do.

The idea of haves/have nots and how they will be divided was your premise, not mine. I just responded to it. On one post only. And you are not quoting that part about how the masses will be divided, are you? You are not pointing out how the poor have_nots in your opinion, deserve GMO because they are lazy, jealous, etc.

You are covering old ground here. The world *can* be fed organically, several people have pointed that out on this thread with data to back it up. You have not responded to those posts. Yet.

Oh yes. You keep saying we are going global. Nonsense. The only reason we *are* global, and the *only* reason ... is the internet. Period. When the internet is taken away, we won't know jack **** anymore and your globalists will really hit the fan.

Fight for what you believe in without bringing my lovely kitchen sink with greenhouse window into it. :)

Sierra

P.S. We pay in mortgage what we used to pay in rent. Almost Exactly. :)
P.S. And plastic bottles are so bad for you, stuff leaks into the water.
P.S. All that acreage now devoted to corn for bottles, means that much less food.

[blufire]

By the way the list of companies posted above selling gmo food is in no way complete. I taught this information in workshops for years.

Do a little research into Whole Foods and who foundationally owns this company and sister companies.

This (that you posted above) is very old information.

[Sierra]

I am a have because of the lifestyle and choices I have.

No I do not (as a rule) eat gmo food. Because I have the choice in this country to Choose.

But many here and billions around the world do not.

We do not have the technology at this point.

So again how do we help the billions who at this point in our global technological advancement feed the many?

Help me to understand this. . . .

Do you not see the inherent flaw in *not* eating GMO food, and yet, expecting/asking/promoting that the world of the poor to eat GMO, because Monsanto and gang have made impossible to *not* eat GMO food, unless you are a Have?

We have the technology. We have ALWAYS had the technology. Up until our parents generation, the entire world was organic. What we no longer have is control over how our technology is used. It is currently being used to enrich the 1%, and rape the rest of us. Sicken us. Kill us.

I don't think I can help you to understand. There seems to be a great divide between how you see things, and how I see things.

Sierra

¤=[Post Update]=¤


By the way the list of companies posted above selling gmo food is in no way complete. I taught this information in workshops for years.

Do a little research into Whole Foods and who foundationally owns this company and sister companies.

This (that you posted above) is very old information.

Oh no! It is worse than we thought! Yes, I'll let the OP of that post know. :)

[blufire]

Sierra. . . . How do we feed the billions until we have the technology?

I am on my tablet and cannot answer in great detail.

I have answered the organic farming question on the thread I started this thread from.

Go to my posts on that thread.

There is physically and with our rapidly changing climate to mass farm organically or even naturally.

I have grown my food all my life and my growing skills have been greatly challenged the last 10 years because of the climate. Which is why I only grow now for my family.

[blufire]

Our grandparents and the family farms of even 25 years ago could only farm on average 80 acres organically or naturally. There is simply not enough hours in the day or weeks in a growing season for the amount of intensive laborious it takes.

Obviously and clearly you have never gardened on a level to feed an average family for a year.

[Sierra]

Sierra. . . . How do we feed the billions until we have the technology?

I am on my tablet and cannot answer in great detail.

I have answered the organic farming question on the thread I started this thread from.

Go to my posts on that thread.

There is physically and with our rapidly changing climate to mass farm organically or even naturally.

I have grown my food all my life and my growing skills have been greatly challenged the last 10 years because of the climate. Which is why I only grow now for my family.

I read your posts/thread, and I disagree with your premise, as most on Avalon do. Obviously we have to take back the technology.


Our grandparents and the family farms of even 25 years ago could only farm on average 80 acres organically or naturally. There is simply not enough hours in the day or weeks in a growing season for the amount of intensive laborious it takes.

Obviously and clearly you have never gardened on a level to feed an average family for a year.

Of course not. I am not a farmer. But many farmers do, and feed the world as well, until that is, the Monsantos and HAARPS of the world made it virtually impossible, but hey that is no reason to give up, or to give in, and give them the money they want. We are the haves, and it is our duty to fix the mess.

[Another1]

I think I get what you're driving at in this thread but that could be simply due to my intense desire to understand things from differing views. If all of this that truly seems like poison to most of us is actually good than I want to understand how and will keep watching here.

As for farming the old fashioned way though? I spent 11 years with Amish folk as neighbors and can state with certainty, they could teach us how to grow enough food for everyone to get fat ... they make normal American farmers mad as hell too ... I've witnessed the jealousy first hand ... with the Amish, their whole family is out sowing crops in the moonlight barefoot and when harvest time comes they put farmers with $100Ks in mortgaged equipment to shame.

Our guberment stores some foods till they rot in order to fix prices ... other foods they buy to remove from market then give away to poor people, who then do not buy it in the store where the guberment must fix the price so the producer can make a buck ... my head hurts trying to type that.

On another note, Monsanto destroys farmers who have the bad luck of the wind blowing GMO crop pollen into their field and modifying their crops. I don't understand why the farmers can't sue them back for the very same thing?

[Carmen]

Wow, that list is mind boggling and the foods are all unhealthy. The basic diet of my family and also some of our community are fruit, vegetables, protein in the form of nuts, meat, poultry. None of these I need to go to a supermarket for. Indigenous people ate basically in the same way till so called society discovered them, indebted them, moved them off their land and fed them crap that made them sick and dependant.

Can't be bothered with your silly argument in favour of Monsanto Blufire, but I had to say something.

[Sierra]

On another note, Monsanto destroys farmers who have the bad luck of the wind blowing GMO crop pollen into their field and modifying their crops. I don't understand why the farmers can't sue them back for the very same thing?

They try. But Monsanto owns the courts. So they pretty much have to suck it up. So far. Battles are being fought.

Sierra

[meeradas]

Existing tech, potentially rendering gm-corps obsolete:


http://vimeo.com/14844889

:tape2:

[blufire]

How do we feed the 7 billion people of the world and especially with the rapid climate change that our entire solar system is experiencing?

HOW??

Who is addressing this reality now?

I can barely adapt fast enough to keep up with the extreme weather and I have 30+ years experience

[Dennis Leahy]

Answer my question above please.

When do we stop being a Have and become a Have Not?

I am a have because of the lifestyle and choices I have.

No I do not (as a rule) eat gmo food. Because I have the choice in this country to Choose.

But many here and billions around the world do not.

We do not have the technology at this point.

So again how do we help the billions who at this point in our global technological advancement feed the many?

Help me to understand this. . . .

You asked for a solution. Here's my offering:

Although it could use a revision (and an editor!) I will paste the "Agricultural and Ranching Reform" section of (what is now called the "Candidate Position Issues" document that is a companion to The Reset Button, that used to be part of what was called "Phase II." ) This also ties in with "Food, Water, and Air Sovereignty Reform", "Medical & Pharmacology Reform", and "Health Care Reform", as all health issues are related to food. It may seem bleak, and it is as long as those in power are sociopaths and misanthropes. It has been very difficult to get activists to temporarily disengage from the issue that they are most passionate about, and focus on the critical doorway that must be opened first: citizens MUST take over the government. [This is true in every country around the world, but every country's citizens must modify the plan to work, using the leverage of the existing laws in that country.]


11.) Agricultural and Ranching Reform

Background:
We the people have really gotten outfoxed on the critical issues surrounding our nation's food supply, and now our food supply is tainted, toxic, and threatened.


Agricultural chemical companies have been allowed to advance their agenda towards a system dependent upon increasingly more agricultural chemicals. Predatory lending to farmers, stretching their credit beyond viability, to allow them to purchase the expensive machinery to apply agricultural chemicals and/or just to compete in the increasingly mechanized “factory farming” agri-chemical intensive farming shift, and lack of protection from estate taxation for farms to remain intact in generational changes have destroyed literally millions of small and medium sized farms since the 1930's. A small number of corporate-owned agri-biz giants now control the vast majority of food production in the US, and with corporate profits taking precedence over food quality and soil viability, the vast majority of the food supply has become infused with and covered in toxins while soil has become sterile and nutrient-depleted. Collusion between legislators and giant agri-biz farms ensures the trend will remain.


The judicial wing of the US government, tasked with protecting America's citizens, have ignored the current monopoly status of these agri-biz giants, and no attempt using existing anti-trust legislation has been made to break up the dangerous monopoly situation. Agri-biz giant, monopolistic, 'outdoor food factory' operations need to be broken up into smaller farms. In addition to the illegal monopolies, it is foolish and insecure to place so much control over food into so few hands.


As if weather cycles were not enough of a natural gambling factor to crops, Wall Street has been allowed to artificially inflate and deflate the value of food at their whim and when it served them to make a profit, trading food as commodities and even manipulating the value of next year's crops by trading in “futures” on food as commodities.


Agri-biz giant corporations ignore nutritional wisdom in favor of profits. It is the corporate mentality, and it has no business in food farming. The vast majority of farming acreage is currently dedicated to corn, soybeans, hay (primarily alfalfa) and wheat. This is astounding after even a quick check of the digestibility, nutritional value, allergens, plant hormones (phyto-estrogens), and natural toxins of these crops – especially corn and soybeans – used in human nutrition.


Corn, soybeans, (and now alfalfa) are almost entirely grown from genetically modified (GMO) seeds, and due to collusion with legislators, the great danger of genetically modified organisms in human health and the health risks from increased agricultural chemicals, especially herbicides, have been deliberately hidden from the public. The takeover of the US food supply using GMO seeds is a case study in collusion. With the web of collusion within the US government departments charged with agricultural and food safety (USDA, FDA) showing full infiltration by GMO seed producers, and university research departments colluded by the same GMO seed producers, it is somewhat difficult to find independent and unbiased scientific studies of GMO foods in human (and cattle) nutrition – but the unbiased scientific conclusions unanimously point to grave health dangers of GMO foods as well as finding no proof that GMO seeds have any attribute (such as drought resistance) that either proves to be true or would warrant ignoring the grave danger inherent in the foods produced. This is clearly an astounding takeover that benefits only corporate profits – to the detriment of human health and the permanent degradation of the natural genetics of seeds that grow our major food crops. We demand the repeal of patents issued on life forms, and prohibit sales and/or use of genetically modified (transgenic) species of organisms. All existing stocks of genetically modified organisms to be immediately destroyed.


Honest and unbiased modern studies of human nutrition (as well as plant-based non-food uses such as fiber for cloth, plant oils for alternatives to petroleum-based plastics, lubricants, paints, inks, etc.) should provide the list of which specific plant families should be considered as the major crops for US consumption as well as export – not corporate profit margins or the Wall Street trading value. An unbiased look at hemp/cannabis providing food (one of the very few crops with all 8 essential amino acids), a variety of medicines including cancer treatments, tree-free paper pulp, strong and soft cloth fiber, the highest yield per acre of oils for alternatives to petroleum-based plastics, lubricants, paints, inks, etc., shows that it is insane to exclude this strategic and incredibly versatile raw material – which (once fully decriminalized) should be one of the top three major crops grown in the US -probably number one.


Collusion between agricultural chemical manufacturers and the US government has resulted in the insanity of thinking of organically grown crops as something special, and crops grown with agricultural chemical (insecticide, herbicide, and fungicide) bio-toxins as “conventional.” The history of farming goes back thousands of years, and the history of farming relying on bio-toxic chemicals goes back only decades. The truth is that bio-toxic chemical farming is not “traditional” and certainly should never have become “conventional.”


This collusion has resulted in countless trillions of beneficial soil organisms being killed, countless health problems in US citizens who have ingested, breathed, and drank the toxins, severe degradation to the nutritional quality of available food, the demise of small to medium sized farms, the aggregation of control of the majority of our nations food supply into the hands of a few agri-biz giant outdoor food factories, injury and illness to hundreds of thousands of farm workers and other citizens and deaths of tens of thousands of farm workers and other citizens exposed to the agricultural toxins, deaths and injuries to countless other creatures within the natural web of biodiversity. Airborne, waterborne and soil contaminated bio-toxins have invaded every sector of our environment from the water we drink to the air we breathe – and every bite of “conventional” food that our families eat. We need to bring our soil back to life.


We the people are not served by this criminal collusion – only the agricultural chemical companies, their lobbyists, and the politicians silenced with contributions are served. The media have been nearly silent about reporting the truth that organic farming has been proven to be completely financially viable, and would entirely eliminate the giant list of eco-toxic and bio-toxic problems from agri-toxin farming, and have utterly failed in their duty to honestly inform the public with the truth about organic versus agri-toxin farming.


The arable lands of the United States are a national treasure, but even more importantly, this land provides one of the few products of our nation actually critical for life itself: our food. These lands are privately held, but must be utilized for the common good and not for corporate financial strategic goals or the whim of Wall Street traders' futures trading. The monopolies of the immense agricultural factory-farming giants need to be broken so that control over food and fiber crops are in the hands of many. While the treasure trove of traditional farming knowledge is still alive, small and medium-sized family farming and cooperative farming needs to be reestablished, supported, and our farmers held in the high esteem that they deserve.


The majority of commercial meat-animal, dairy, and egg production activities have collapsed into unwholesome, cruel, overcrowded, unhealthy, unsanitary, ecocidal, animal factory business operations. Collusion with the USDA has allowed astoundingly unhealthy animal factory business operations to become the norm. Animals are routinely fed food they cannot digest, herbivorous animals sometimes have meat mixed with their feed, and most animals are force-fed hormones and massive antibiotics for growth surge. These animals are penned and caged in appalling conditions, treated inhumanely, and slaughtered and packed in such unsanitary conditions that fecal pathogens in meat is the norm.


From misconceptions going back hundreds if not thousands of years, where the amount of meat in someone's diet was a declaration of social status, we retain the incorrect notion that we have an actual need, a nutritional requirement, for meat – and that frequent (and significant quantities of) meat consumption is healthful. Collusion between the dairy and meat industries and the US government allowed for the creation of first five, then seven, then four “food groups”, falsely declaring a need in human nutrition for the products they wished to promote. The myth continues on into the present day, more subtly represented in the food pyramid. Scientific studies show that the American diet contains a massive overage of protein, resulting in health degradation and excess protein-specific pathology such as osteoporosis. Clearly, Americans who wish to eat meat need to be given honest, scientifically accurate health information about meat consumption, and need to have meat from animals raised humanely, fed organically and without synthetic hormones and growth-spurt inducing antibiotics, that is slaughtered, packed, transported, and stored using healthful quality standards.


Action:
A massive overhaul of agriculture and meat production is long overdue. Our health and our survival is at stake. (this section needs to include some proposed legislation)
(I see this does need revision, to include specific reference to the large-scale Rodale study that proved that organic crops can be produced at the same financial cost as poisonous food (with an array of other obvious benefits as well.) I also need to include info on permaculture and bio-char technologies, and need to include the fact that ranching is almost all done with GMO crops as well. And, a mention of the benefits of fungus in soil.)

In the short term, the US could (and is obliged to) remain an exporter of crops, but they need to be organically produced and of a quality as high as can be produced anywhere on Earth. The US still has wise organic farmers, and we need to take this knowledge to the far corners of the Earth - rather than taking military excursions with the same money. The US owes this to the world - one of the reparations we need to undertake.

There are absolutely NO benefits to GMO crops for humans. None. Not one.

I'll inject the possibility that anyone 'visited' decades ago and clued-in to upcoming technology may have deliberately been given false information, or the technological advances that were supposed to occur were supplanted by the nefarious GMO movement. Timelines change. Or maybe they were just flat wrong. (What, do we admit "to err is human" and assume all the little green - and gray - men are always right?)

The ONLY reason that people around the world are eating GMO crops is because the farmers were lied to by Monsanto and their ilk. The farmers WERE told there were benefits (like drought resistance), and they bought-into it. It was a lie. If every seed had been non-GMO, the exact same number (or higher) bags of grain could have been exported - without the health hazard. I hesitate to leave it at "health hazard" as it sounds like a gamble. It is not a gamble - whoever eats GMO food will be damaged. Not enhanced, damaged. We have some brave scientists who have proven it, despite the fact that Monsanto's long arms are trying to crush them and destroy their careers.

This is not just passion, this is science. Known science. Damaging our bodies with GMO foods is NOT preparing us for the future, it is preparing us to have shorter and more disease-ridden futures. We have the technology right now to feed the world - the controllers do not have the will. We have the technology to rebuild our soil, produce nutritionally dense, micro and macro-nutrient rich foods, and protect our water and air. We have NO need of bio-toxins and genetically modified foods.

Dennis

[WEAREONE]

blufire,

Please share more.

Of course whatever you say will be scrutinized. but, so what.....

For me im hoping you share more of how you have come to these conclusions. I imagine it as a combination of experiences and intuition and premonitions.

Sadly, most the posts fail to consider your post that shows this is emotionally difficult to express for you. Thank you for what you have shared and I would suggest please dont stop now.

[blufire]

blufire,

Please share more.

Of course whatever you say will be scrutinized. but, so what.....

For me im hoping you share more of how you have come to these conclusions. I imagine it as a combination of experiences and intuition and premonitions.

Sadly, most the posts fail to consider your post that shows this is emotionally difficult to express for you. Thank you for what you have shared and I would suggest please dont stop now.


Thank you much for the encouragement.

I haven’t completely given up . . .coming close . . .we will see what happens with my next few posts..

I feel like your avatar.

[heyokah]

Sierra. . . . How do we feed the billions until we have the technology?

I am on my tablet and cannot answer in great detail.

I have answered the organic farming question on the thread I started this thread from.

Go to my posts on that thread.

There is physically and with our rapidly changing climate to mass farm organically or even naturally.

I have grown my food all my life and my growing skills have been greatly challenged the last 10 years because of the climate. Which is why I only grow now for my family.

I read your posts/thread, and I disagree with your premise, as most on Avalon do. Obviously we have to take back the technology.


Our grandparents and the family farms of even 25 years ago could only farm on average 80 acres organically or naturally. There is simply not enough hours in the day or weeks in a growing season for the amount of intensive laborious it takes.

Obviously and clearly you have never gardened on a level to feed an average family for a year.

Of course not. I am not a farmer. But many farmers do, and feed the world as well, until that is, the Monsantos and HAARPS of the world made it virtually impossible, but hey that is no reason to give up, or to give in, and give them the money they want. We are the haves, and it is our duty to fix the mess.



She didn't and doesn't give up....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsK3V04LAvw

[Sierra]

What Vendana Shiva talks about:

Problem: Monsanto terminator seeds, Monsanto Round Up poison that only Monsanto seeds can survive
Reaction: 160,000 farmers suicide
Solution: Form community seed banks. Genuine seed that can reproduce, sold to farmers at low cost

It looks like we can do the Illuminati Problem/Reaction/Solution scenario too.

Thank you Heyokah, that is encouraging to hear. You made my day. :)

[naste.de.lumina]

a2x6TEeknfo

[Sierra]

Monsanto hires infamous mercenary firm Blackwater to track activists around the world:

http://www.naturalnews.com/040492_GMO_activists_Monsanto_blackwater.html

Quoting in part (bolding is mine):
"... entities closely linked to the private security firm Blackwater have provided intelligence, training and security services to US and foreign governments as well as several multinational corporations, including Monsanto, Chevron, the Walt Disney Company, Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines and banking giants Deutsche Bank and Barclays, according to documents obtained by The Nation. Blackwater's work for corporations and government agencies was contracted using two companies owned by Blackwater's owner and founder, Erik Prince: Total Intelligence Solutions and the Terrorism Research Center (TRC). Prince is listed as the chairman of both companies in internal company documents, which show how the web of companies functions as a highly coordinated operation."

A spokesperson representing Monsanto admits the company hired Total Intelligence for information "... about the activities of groups or individuals that could pose a risk to company personnel or operations around the world which were developed by monitoring local media reports and other publicly available information. The subject matter ranged from information regarding terrorist incidents in Asia or kidnappings in Central America to scanning the content of activist blogs and websites."

However, what the spokesperson fails to address is that according to documents secured by Scahill, Monsanto was willing to pay a sizable sum (up to $500,000) for Blackwater agents to infiltrate anti-Monsanto organizations.

As the plot continues to thicken regarding Monsanto's tactics of domination, Ananda aptly notes:

"... Monsanto, by hiring a mercenary army and former CIA field agents, is deadly serious about protecting its deadly products. Yet, this contract further discredits the company. The public can now paint an even bleaker picture of the firm that brought us Agent Orange, PCBs, rBST, DDT, aspartame and, now, hit men."

Interesting Factoids: During the run up to WWII, Germany's first paramilitary organization was called Blackwater. After a few false flag events, the Nazis created a department for internal control, called ... The Department of Homeland Security.

[gripreaper]

This thread just died? So, we will never know why GMO foods are absolutely necessary to feed the 7 billion people? We will never know why the "guardian's" have instructed the "controller's" to implement this solution as soon as possible, because blufire and Bill Ryan know what's coming but are reluctant to share this cataclysmic event with us? We will never know how GMO is an integral part in the survival of the species? We will never know what the most probable timeline we are facing is, how imminent it is, and why we should be embracing GMO?

What a shame.

So far, all we have is undisputed information that GMO is destroying the planet ecosystem, infiltrating all crops and taking over the fields which are not GMO and destroying them through pollination, forcing farmers to use terminator seeds and pesticides which only Monsanto produces, that thousands of India's farmers have committed suicide because they can no longer sustain farming practices which they have used effectively for thousands of years, that almost all countries around the world are rallying against GMO while the good old USofA is passing legislation to protect Monsanto from any prosecution, or any reprisal for not effectively testing, while "fast tracking" their stuff into the marketplace?

This dilemma is hard to reconcile without the information being withheld by blufire. If you know something, you should tell us. We are the only one's who can help solve this dilemma and rally to bring the best possible outcome to the fore.

[ThePythonicCow]

If you know something, you should tell us. We are the only one's who can help solve this dilemma and rally to bring the best possible outcome to the fore.
No, no, those who know should not tell us. In our panic, we'd likely make a bigger mess of things, and perhaps even threaten the powerful who are the only one's who know what is needed to save us.

</sarcasm>

[blufire]

Well this thread went about how I thought it would.

I did hope that maybe we could start a different dialogue especially with what I shared in post #67.

But instead what I have gotten is an administrator and moderator going at me in such a way that if it were another PA member saying these same things in this same manner that member would be reprimanded or more.

But I think the thing that hurts the most and is the most deeply discouraging is gripreaper.

Gripreaper you divulged in several posts in a couple different threads very private and personal information I communicated to you in a private message. I cannot tell you how betrayed and devastating this is to me. This information about my encounters as a child you have used against me in these threads to try to color who you feel I am and with ignorant knowledge about this particular alien race.

Why should I even try to communicate and tell my story and what I have come to understand any further if this is how I will be treated? Read back through this thread . . . I even said this very thing that other people who have told their storyand share their knowledge get ripped to shreds.


I have noticed with great interest the threads that PA new member Todd Hathaway has started. Smart man he is. With each thread he has started he ends the post with the following


Any discussion that follows this post in this Avalon forum thread is strictly between other Avalon forum members.

Now why do you reckon he would do such a thing? I think I have a pretty good notion.

So now what do we do?

Shall I just go my merry way? Because this is the message I have gotten loud and clear.

Or shall we truly try to do a bit more Human Awakening and apply all Spirituality and Science . . . . . . or is this not allowed any longer on this forum?

And let it be known that I surely won’t be divulging anymore highly personal and private information in private messages or otherwise even with members like gripreaper who I at one time would have thought was a very trustworthy and honorable soul.

[Sierra]

But instead what I have gotten is an administrator and moderator going at me in such a way that if it were another PA member saying these same things in this same manner that member would be reprimanded or more.


No. What you got was an administrator and a moderator contradicting you and giving evidence/research/material/links as to why they contradicted you. I've gone back and reread all of my posts on this thread, and they were not rude, and not in need of reprimand.

Back your claim up with an actual link or quote please if you are going to make accusations like this.

Going on my profile and using private information about me in public while that information is for members only (It is a member's choice who can view their profile and mine is set to member's only.), while not against the guidelines... could be construed as an invasion of privacy.

Likewise your accusations towards Gripreaper should be reported with links and PMs to the moderators, not as a general complaint with no proof on a public forum.

Sierra

[Dennis Leahy]

...Not ONLY the material from the researchers against all gmo’s and related technology but researchers who are from the ‘other side’ whose research is just as valid as to why at this time we (globally) need this technology.
...
This is what I'm hoping to get from you. I trust you have seen this research, trust it was not from Monsanto or one of their paid studies, and trust that it convinced you. I need to see it, scrutinize it. So far, I have seen nothing to show that GMO seeds are anything but hype and/or have any positive attribute other than to a Monsanto stockholder's profits.

Number two, I'd like to see that you have read Rodale Institute's summary of 30 years studying organic versus conventional farming side-by-side, where they proved that organic was just as cost effective. I need to know that you know this, understand that the entire population of the Earth could be eating organic food right now (just as we did for the first 10,000 years of agriculture) and yet reject this due to [__________________] <-- fill in the blank.

Number three, I know you eat organically. If you believe GMO food is a critical transhumanist step, why not go ahead and eat it?

Finally, as I said elsewhere (but want to underscore, here) opposition to an idea you've expressed is not opposition to you as a person, not a judgment of your value, and certainly has nothing to do with hating you. I think you are being a bit melodramatic with that, but then you do almost exclusively stand in opposition to the opinions of many others, and you probably feel like you have a target stapled to your forehead. Recognize that we recognize who you are - and that this is an opinion, not a person that we are expressing opposition to. I'd not only have a pot of coffee with you, I'd love to meet in person and share a few (organic) homecooked meals. I can even cook! (or clean up)

You're probably familiar with how a debate team competes: a topic is presented, and the moderator assigns the "pro" argument to one team and the "con" argument to the other. It isn't personal. So, you have taken the "pro" argument on this topic. Great. I just want to hear your best argument, show me where my thinking is wrong, convince me where yours is correct. You are not being attacked.

Love,

Dennis

[gripreaper]

I have no choice but to address this in the forum.


But I think the thing that hurts the most and is the most deeply discouraging is gripreaper. Gripreaper you divulged in several posts in a couple different threads very private and personal information I communicated to you in a private message. I cannot tell you how betrayed and devastating this is to me. This information about my encounters as a child you have used against me in these threads to try to color who you feel I am and with ignorant knowledge about this particular alien race.

As far as I know, I have not divulged anything which you yourself did not already divulge in this public forum. In your opening post to this thread you wrote:


Since returning to the mountains I have begun to ‘remember’. Actually where I am today in my spirituality, knowledge, understanding and wisdom is a result of ‘encounters’ from my childhood . . . . encounters that I have begun to remember since I have been back and secluded in my beloved mountains.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59869-Personal-controversial-view-of-Monsanto-Globalists-and-Technology

So, YOU told us about your childhood "encounters" which you have begun to remember.


With my now understanding of what I was shown as a child. One of the most overwhelming parts of my now understanding of what I have remembered is ‘they’ do not have this attitude or view of us. I am speaking of the Shepherds and to a lesser degree the Controllers.

There will be a near ELE (extinction level event). Less than one billion humans will survive. The Controllers through the direction of our Shepherds have prepared and continue to prepare rapidly for this eventual reality. It is very true that many do not have a choice. The Shepherds realize this and are addressing this need by advancing technology and science as rapidly as possible. Keeping ahead of exponential population growth is difficult at best.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59869-Personal-controversial-view-of-Monsanto-Globalists-and-Technology&p=688468#post688468

In this post, you tell us that "they", the shepherds, which you encountered as a child, are benevolent, and wish to help humanity by implementing GMO foods as quickly as possible to prepare for an extinction level event, and are instructing the controllers, which you admit elsewhere are the elite cabal. You've also indicated that these controllers are benevolent and have the best interests of humanity at heart, because they too are human.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60427-Seriously-Are-We-Winning-Or-Losing-Why-...&p=693278#post693278


Because if humanity as a whole understood why this research and technology is being put into rapid expansion there would be unbelievable chaos and would be cruel. The Truth? We as a whole would not be able to handle the Truth.

Here, you tell us that you "know" what is going to happen, but that we would not be able to handle what you know and have received from the shepherds in your childhood encounters.


Bill, I also feel it is ‘non-negotiably unconscionable’ when someone in a position such as yours holds back valuable information and clarity that would enable people to understand more fully exactly what to expect and how to prepare in everyway for their current way of life and for their future and for their generations after them.

Here, you challenge Bill to come forward with what only you and he know, because he is "hiding" this gargantuan truth from all of us.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59869-Personal-controversial-view-of-Monsanto-Globalists-and-Technology&p=685404#post685404


These two paragraphs hit me full on and with conviction. I feel I can no longer be silent in what I feel I was shown so many years ago or what I have come to understand and believe is unfolding. And yes, I know I agreed to this path before I came here at this time and this place. There is also a very deep feeling that I also was ‘sent’ here. I agreed but out of some sense of loyalty or understanding that I really didn’t have a choice.

I feel with conviction that now is the time in my life, because at the age I am and with the past 40+ years of research, study, and life experience I now understand more fully what I was shown so many years ago.

And also because now every time and try to ‘forget’ again I am pushed harder.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59869-Personal-controversial-view-of-Monsanto-Globalists-and-Technology&p=685362#post685362

So, this is something you have indicated you want to share. You have shared with us that you have had child encounters with aliens, that they have divulged some very important information for mankind's survival to you, that these aliens are typically viewed as malevolent, yet you find them quite benevolent, that the controllers are benevolent and human too, and are responsible for preserving mankind, and that we are at a critical juncture which you can no longer keep to yourself. How is it that I divulged "private" information?

Is it such a stretch if I call the evil aliens, "greys", as many on this planet do, and what happened with Eisenhower and his agreements with these aliens and the events at Area 51 as described by Phil Schneider and others, and you consider the "shepherd's" as benevolent? How is that divulging anything that you haven't already told us?


Why should I even try to communicate and tell my story and what I have come to understand any further if this is how I will be treated? Read back through this thread . . . I even said this very thing that other people who have told their story and share their knowledge get ripped to shreds.

"Ripped to shreds"? "Divulging private info"? I'm sorry you feel this way. I meant what I said about supporting you and honoring your experience, as you said you wanted to bring it forward. If I have hurt you in any way, it was not my intention to do so and I am deeply sorry.


Any discussion that follows this post in this Avalon forum thread is strictly between other Avalon forum members.


Now why do you reckon he would do such a thing? I think I have a pretty good notion.

I don't know. It is understood that information given in private is not to be divulged in public without the permission of the author.


And let it be known that I surely won’t be divulging anymore highly personal and private information in private messages or otherwise even with members like gripreaper who I at one time would have thought was a very trustworthy and honorable soul.

This does hurt. I consider myself trustworthy and honorable, and if I breach this in any way, it creates karma in my energy field to which I will have to deal with it in duality, as is my understanding. Everything happens in balance, and anything I do polarized brings the opposite.

Please blufire, follow your heart and please understand I am not, nor would I ever, divulge private info on a public forum without the express permission from the author.


Finally, as I said elsewhere (but want to underscore, here) opposition to an idea you've expressed is not opposition to you as a person, not a judgment of your value, and certainly has nothing to do with hating you. I think you are being a bit melodramatic with that, but then you do almost exclusively stand in opposition to the opinions of many others, and you probably feel like you have a target stapled to your forehead. Recognize that we recognize who you are - and that this is an opinion, not a person that we are expressing opposition to. I'd not only have a pot of coffee with you, I'd love to meet in person and share a few (organic) homecooked meals. I can even cook! (or clean up)

I wholeheartedly agree. I've always respected blufire because she "walks the walk" and not just "talks the talk" and I too would love to meet her and sit and chat around the campfire with a bowl of organic soup and our favorite libation, and discuss the big picture.

[jiminii]

what we are talking about is 2 1/2 percent of the world is totally insane ... stuck in incidents on the track going way back and those who don't agree with them are the enemies .... they infect 20 percent of the world .. have these going like a roller coaster ... intention counter intention .. is suppression ... these 20 percent are affecting the remaining 80 percent ... the thing is this ... we need to get to the 2 1/2 percent ... and those who are the closest to them ... they have our attention on all this monsanto crap and the destruction of the land ... and where are we going ???? that is what you have to look at ...

we won ... that is what we need to know .... why ... are you worried about death ???? well .. where will you go ..???? they have removed the force fields on the planet so we are free to go ..... so you will probably go to some planet in the stars in a similar situation as we are as that galactic government is almost identical but on a larger scale than USA .... they have the same bankers .. that plan wars ... but over 10,000 year periods .. but it is the same game ... what is the purpose of of auditing .... why do we do it .... we do it to erase those patterns ... if we don't history keeps repeating itself ... what we did in the future is we got rid of this perpetual motion picture time recording system called the MIND .. everyone carries around from lifetime to lifetime .. that the spirit BELIEVES he MUST HAVE .. that is so full of lies and implants and crap for trillions of years ???? who needs this ???? auditing is the way to erase time place and event of this mind ... it is the only thing that can trap you to a prison planet ... it is made from physical universe Matter energy space and time ... so it has weight ... a spirit has no mass no energy no space and no time and can not be traceable in this universe ..the only way it can be traceable is by a spirit believing it needs this MIND it carries from lifetime to lifetime ... with it they can flood it will implants and garbage and control mechanisms ... without it .. the spirit can KNOW anything clearly .... by viewing ... and not having this mind to alter the being's perceptions ...

we should not be putting our attention on the effects these people are creating ,.. that is how they keep us bouncing all over the internet and going positive to negative and continuously spinning .... we should keep our attention on revealing the source of all this s*** and having everyone attacking it ... bringing it to light

the closer we get ... the more they are found out the more sane this planet will be ... the more we go off on trying to stop their 20 percent spinning effected followers ... that produce s*** for them the less we will be able to end this stuff ... go for the controllers of these companies .. not the workers ... start finding their crimes and skeletons in the closet .. put that out for the world to see ... and they won't be able to do what they are doing anymore ...

we have to dead agent the liars .... dead agent means ... if you have a spy and he is working at spreading lies into another country .. all you have to do is prove it and he becomes a dead agent ... no one will believe him ... we have to dead agent .. their spies .. media .. and any others that are working for them ...

dead agent their top people and no one will believe them anymore ... dead agent the reporters of the news broadcasters by proving their data is false .. and pass out fliers right in front of their tv stations and newspapers .. dead agent all the people working for them with truth .. right in front of their noses .. standing with signs in front of the media stations ... and give the names of the liars ... and those people will not be believed anymore ...

you can do it on the internet .. too .. literally prove a persons information false ... he become a dead agent .. means no one will believe him anymore ..

jim

[blufire]

what we are talking about is 2 1/2 percent of the world is totally insane ... stuck in incidents on the track going way back and those who don't agree with them are the enemies .... they infect 20 percent of the world .. have these going like a roller coaster ... intention counter intention .. is suppression ... these 20 percent are affecting the remaining 80 percent ... the thing is this ... we need to get to the 2 1/2 percent ... and those who are the closest to them ... they have our attention on all this monsanto crap and the destruction of the land ... and where are we going ???? that is what you have to look at ...

we won ... that is what we need to know .... why ... are you worried about death ???? well .. where will you go ..???? they have removed the force fields on the planet so we are free to go ..... so you will probably go to some planet in the stars in a similar situation as we are as that galactic government is almost identical but on a larger scale than USA .... they have the same bankers .. that plan wars ... but over 10,000 year periods .. but it is the same game ... what is the purpose of of auditing .... why do we do it .... we do it to erase those patterns ... if we don't history keeps repeating itself ... what we did in the future is we got rid of this perpetual motion picture time recording system called the MIND .. everyone carries around from lifetime to lifetime .. that the spirit BELIEVES he MUST HAVE .. that is so full of lies and implants and crap for trillions of years ???? who needs this ???? auditing is the way to erase time place and event of this mind ... it is the only thing that can trap you to a prison planet ... it is made from physical universe Matter energy space and time ... so it has weight ... a spirit has no mass no energy no space and no time and can not be traceable in this universe ..the only way it can be traceable is by a spirit believing it needs this MIND it carries from lifetime to lifetime ... with it they can flood it will implants and garbage and control mechanisms ... without it .. the spirit can KNOW anything clearly .... by viewing ... and not having this mind to alter the being's perceptions ...

we should not be putting our attention on the effects these people are creating ,.. that is how they keep us bouncing all over the internet and going positive to negative and continuously spinning .... we should keep our attention on revealing the source of all this s*** and having everyone attacking it ... bringing it to light

the closer we get ... the more they are found out the more sane this planet will be ... the more we go off on trying to stop their 20 percent spinning effected followers ... that produce s*** for them the less we will be able to end this stuff ... go for the controllers of these companies .. not the workers ... start finding their crimes and skeletons in the closet .. put that out for the world to see ... and they won't be able to do what they are doing anymore ...

we have to dead agent the liars .... dead agent means ... if you have a spy and he is working at spreading lies into another country .. all you have to do is prove it and he becomes a dead agent ... no one will believe him ... we have to dead agent .. their spies .. media .. and any others that are working for them ...

dead agent their top people and no one will believe them anymore ... dead agent the reporters of the news broadcasters by proving their data is false .. and pass out fliers right in front of their tv stations and newspapers .. dead agent all the people working for them with truth .. right in front of their noses .. standing with signs in front of the media stations ... and give the names of the liars ... and those people will not be believed anymore ...

you can do it on the internet .. too .. literally prove a persons information false ... he become a dead agent .. means no one will believe him anymore ..

jim

Jim,

I am not ignoring your posts. I simply cannot understand what the hell you are saying most of the time.

I appreciate much your very individualized knowledge and input but for me it is like you are speaking a very ancient foreign language.

Others seem to garner info from your posts so by all means keep at it, I just can’t respond coherently because of the lack of my ability to understand

[blufire]

But instead what I have gotten is an administrator and moderator going at me in such a way that if it were another PA member saying these same things in this same manner that member would be reprimanded or more.


No. What you got was an administrator and a moderator contradicting you and giving evidence/research/material/links as to why they contradicted you. I've gone back and reread all of my posts on this thread, and they were not rude, and not in need of reprimand.

Back your claim up with an actual link or quote please if you are going to make accusations like this.

Going on my profile and using private information about me in public while that information is for members only (It is a member's choice who can view their profile and mine is set to member's only.), while not against the guidelines... could be construed as an invasion of privacy.

Likewise your accusations towards Gripreaper should be reported with links and PMs to the moderators, not as a general complaint with no proof on a public forum.

Sierra


Sierra,

I’m speaking of the full on sarcastic, (paul even admits it) attack mode, condescension, anger etc . . . . and I won’t get into taking posts apart bits and pieces to try to prove what is obvious as an overall theme.

Regarding going on your profile and using private information for member only eyes. Well you are flat out wrong. The only way I knew about your new home is because you posted quite often about it on ulli’s ‘here and now’ thread. I even ‘posted’ a house warming gift to you on that thread. Yes I went to your profile to see if I was remembering right and I had the right moderator. So absolutely no invasion of privacy on my part, unless ulli's thread is forum members only.

This is an example (since you seem to want specifics) of slanting what I am doing or saying. I was using specific information from the forum (your new home and lifestyle) to make a point in who is a ‘have’ and who is a ‘have not’ from a global perspective.

Regarding your comment about gripreaper. Reporting his use of my private message to moderation would serve no purpose. Voicing and exposing what he did on a public forum just as he voiced my private information about a very private childhood experience (and other info) on this forum levels the playing field.

He divulged this personal information in his post #48 (on this thread) and the very day I sent the PM to him. As well as he went into more detail about what I said to him in at least two other threads. And no, I am not going to dig up those other comments or threads because it would be a waste of what little time I have to be on Avalon. The ‘specific’ proof is in #48 and also in those other threads.

And to try to prove this (only) to moderation would mean I would have to reveal specifically what I said in this pm to him . . . not something I will do in any way shape or form. This way I will know if any more of what I said to him happens to surface after this day and time it will be very clear what is going on. I have learned a very valuable lesson here . . . . trust absolutely no one.

[blufire]

gripreaper,

I believe firmly that you are one of the most intelligent, knowledgeable people I have ever known. Your ability to communicate clearly and eloquently is unmatched on this forum.

Do I believe you purposely used the information from my PM to you? I truly do not know. I want to believe that your mind is so sharp and vast that you assimilate large amounts of information and it all comes out melded together in your incredible posts. I want to believe that in your passion to communicate your beliefs and knowledge that you ‘forgot’ that what I communicated to you was in the form of a private message.

But I also know that the posts in the various threads that contained bits and pieced of what I (only) said to you conclusively slanted how other members will now view me or what they may believe about me.

So I can only determine that either this (revealing info from my pm) was completely innocent or very strategic . . . . this I’m sure will remain inconclusive.

And I’m okay with that.

I’m okay with that because I am fully aware that what I am trying to say and my personal views make people very uncomfortable. People fight back when they feel their core beliefs are being challenged. People react in fear and anger when something they need to believe or have believed for significant parts of their lives may be a lie or has been carefully manipulated.

And this thread is a very good example. Not once (a bit here and there) has anyone posted on something I have said and addressed it in a manner that it can be discussed without high emotion. Mostly this thread has now become an explosion of what I believe firmly is wrong and that I am somehow disillusioned and brainwashed. It has been reduced to me defending my knowledge and fielding off other members beliefs regarding Monsanto and the ‘elite'.

Not very productive.

I’m not giving up yet. I’m a stubborn ‘ole bird. We will see.

Between you and I (and everyone needs to know this) I hold no grudge or ill will. This also is unproductive. I understand pretty well what is going on here and I have seen it before (many times) it’s all good and actually all Very Human.

[blufire]

Dennis,

I think I will concentrate primarily on your posts for a while on this thread. I thank you deeply for your consistent loving demeanor and attitude. Many times I associate people with certain animals and I hope you won’t be offended if I tell you that you remind me of a beautiful Golden Retriever.


Number two, I'd like to see that you have read Rodale Institute's summary of 30 years studying organic versus conventional farming side-by-side, where they proved that organic was just as cost effective. I need to know that you know this, understand that the entire population of the Earth could be eating organic food right now (just as we did for the first 10,000 years of agriculture) and yet reject this due to [__________________] <-- fill in the blank.

I am very familiar with Rodale’s summary. The Rodale Institute is one of the sources I used (started with) way back in the early 80’s when I began my own quest to farm only naturally and organically and on a large scale (under 100 acres) Interestingly . . I hope you notice that was about 30 years ago. So yes I know definitively and personally about this farming method.

I would also like to very firmly point out that this research was the PAST 30 years and in no way will be feasible in our near future because of our rapidly changing global climate. It is not feasible with our current severe weather. I am a seasoned farmer and gardener and my skills have been challenged greatly over the past few years, which is another reason I returned to the Appalachians. These mountains protect us to a good degree.

I also know definitively and personally that their research breaks conclusively at the 100+ acre mark. After reaching 100+ acres farming naturally or organically the bottom lines (comparing organic to conventional) begin to separate dramatically. I worked side by side . . . dirt to dirt . . . with farmers (conventional and organic) these past 30 years doing hands to dirt research. I have notebooks filled with data, from the temperature of the year, soil content, soil temperature, germination data on every seed we planted, temperature and growing conditions throughout the growing season, personal notes on each farmer and his abilities, what each field harvested and comparables on what other farmers fields harvested, on and on and on.

What I need to make VERY clear. Please please please understand this one fact before we move forward.

We need to be clear that I believe you and others members are very confused. You are confusing conventional farming with corporate farming and both are monumentally different from organic or even natural farming.

So let’s categorize exactly what we are discussing here. We need to define three types of farming and actually even the word farming

Organic Farming (lets not confuse this by including natural farming) niche farming that very few engage in. Most of these farms are less than 100 acres (actual tillable soil). These farms will be the farms that feed a small segment of the global population because this method will have to be highly adapted to the area the farmer lives. The farmer will have to have years of seed saved that has adapted with the changing climate. These seeds and plants (and humans) will be the survival of the fittest or natural selection type scenario. .

Conventional Farming: most small and family farms still use this method and this is where my research comparing to organic farming comes from. Most of theses farms range under 1000 acres (actual tillable soil) They use a mixture of hybridized seed and Monsanto type seed and chemicals and a mixture of both tilling (plow, harrow, cultivate) and no-till method (no soil disturbance and sprays) This method is becoming a thing of the past.

Corporate Farming: these are the massive massive farms that use only Monsanto type products and most importantly ONLY Monsanto type methods of farming. These farms are literally 10’s of thousands of acres and are ‘no till’. These are the farms that feed the majority of the global population.

Google pictures of corporate farms and you will get the idea. There is no way these massive corporate farms can be conventionally farmed let alone organically farmed. There is literally not enough hours in the day or days in the growing season to conventionally or organically farm these 10’s of thousands of acres. .

I am being very simplistic here but enough to hopefully a ‘lay’ person can understand.

Quickly (I have chores waiting) I also want to point out that the people who learn to garden with our changing global climate and stressing and acclimating their own seeds and land will be the areas that will thrive in our near future world. We will be the ones who continue to live close to the soil and nature but also will use certain technology to our benefit. We will listen and watch and adapt accordingly.

Read though this and let me know what I need to make clearer or which direction I should wander next.

[william r sanford72]

in my burnt out hard drive i had footage recorded over time of grain bins along the missp. river from a life long friend who operates a tug boat..during the on season or harvest his primary job is to move grain barges up and down the river to unload or upload.almost always corn.what i saw occuring was mountains o corn...i mean little mountains or metric tons being held back..stored.to manipulate the price.follow the stockmarket.some of the corn would and is rotting...as i write.what my friend also conveyed was going on that i couldnt see was corn gone bad being processed in such away that it could be reintroduced into the food chain for human consumption.livestock.... so forth........now wrap yor head around this truth ...this is a very very small section that i had access to....my point being the truth is under our noses in so many ways...and we grow oh so much more grain then you can imagine...we throw it away...also iam not liked much for my views to...around where i live atleast.so i stick close to home.sorry about sp. also blufire thankyou..your views brings much needed focus on a dire problem that will and has touched all of life on this planet.gets people thinking and talking.so good job to all!!

ok.please explain how this helps prepare for anything??.I live in belly of this beast.IOWA.monsanto.help me understand why we cant farm without gmos.chemicals.

[Sidney]

(quote from Bluefire)
""Corporate Farming: these are the massive massive farms that use only Monsanto type products and most importantly ONLY Monsanto type methods of farming. These farms are literally 10’s of thousands of acres and are ‘no till’. These are the farms that feed the majority of the global population.""
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all, I personally am NOT confused.
Second, these MASSIVE farms, got that massive, because of their lovely GEOENGINEERING HOBBY of spraying chemicals via chemtrail tankers, have cause major flooding, deliberately, in specific areas of the corn belt and other geographical areas of prime farm land. They flooded them out, swooped in and snatched the bankrupt farmers land right out from under them.
Third,Before the massive chemtrailing operations started in the 90s, I had no trouble growing anything at anytime. I live in the middle of a bunch of farm fields. Now, you need ALUMINUM resistant seeds. Seriously?
Forth-Definition of conventional : Conventional is an adjective for things that are normal, ordinary, and following the accepted way. Conventional is a relative term. It means different things for different people. IMO, conventionaly does NOT necessarily equal monsanto type anything.

The deliberate manipulation of the atmosphere,the climate,weather, and environment as a whole, is the only reason for any need for "Monsanto Type" seeds. This has been a deliberate PROBLEM REACTION SOLUTION agenda. Create climate change, (problem), see crops, and farmers lives, deteriorate and die,(reaction), come up with GMO seeds, to "save the world (gag), SOLUTION. What is the grand ultimate picture? Totally dependency on Monsanto & Co. by the people. AND, Monsanto & Co. (and we all know who the & Co. is) get more and more filthy rich, while the other 99% get more and more impoverished, and sick and dead.

It seems to me, the confusion lies withing those who refuse to see that Monsanto is NOT the good guy.

[blufire]

Okay.

Another angle.

Perhaps we can come to one simple agreement so we can get forward momentum.

Can we ‘generally’ agree that there is more severe catastrophic climate change even in the last 10 years? Global catastrophic floods, drought, cold, heat, ice melt, solar activity, earthquakes etcetera. And not only on our planet but there is report after report right here on PA of odd storms and disturbances on other planets.

Can we ‘generally’ agree that we are seeing a global change in our climate and on other planets? It is important that we include other planets because this climate change is due to perturbance in the solar system.

Set aside for a bit about chemtrails and geoengineering.

Is there solar system wide and global severe weather rapid changes and/or geophysical events? Yes or No?

[Sidney]

Okay.

Another angle.

Perhaps we can come to one simple agreement so we can get forward momentum.




Can we ‘generally’ agree that there is more severe catastrophic climate change even in the last 10 years? Global catastrophic floods, drought, cold, heat, ice melt, solar activity, earthquakes etcetera. And not only on our planet but there is report after report right here on PA of odd storms and disturbances on other planets.

Can we ‘generally’ agree that we are seeing a global change in our climate and on other planets? It is important that we include other planets because this climate change is due to perturbance in the solar system.

Set aside for a bit about chemtrails and geoengineering.

Is there solar system wide and global severe weather rapid changes and/or geophysical events? Yes or No?

I can agree that the media says that it is solar system wide, but I do not have the luxury of witnessing it first hand.

I am personally not able to "set aside" chemtrails and geoengineering, as IMO, they are so tightly intertwined with GMO that it would defeat the purpose of me even having an opinion on this debate. I am not asking others to not agree with your request, this is specifically my personal desire.

If there is something so catastrophic going on in the entire solar system, that makes it impossible to feed the masses without gmos and monsanto, I need specifics in order to set any of that aside.

[ThePythonicCow]

But I also know that the posts in the various threads that contained bits and pieced of what I (only) said to you conclusively slanted how other members will now view me or what they may believe about me.

So I can only determine that either this (revealing info from my pm) was completely innocent or very strategic . . . . this I’m sure will remain inconclusive.
If you choose to pursue this further, please Report (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/buttons/report-40b.png) the PMs and posts in question, and state in the report exactly what information gripreaper gained from your PMs and later posted that he could not have gained from what is otherwise available.

Only this way, with the moderators having access to all the relevant information, can your claims against gripreaper be further investigated.

I believe that this method of proceeding has already been suggested to you, above somewhere.


Not very productive.
Exactly. Repeating claims against another member, when information essential to evaluating those claims is (quite properly) not available to those hearing your claims, is not very productive.

If you choose not to Report (entirely your choice), then please cease these unverifiable claims against gripreaper.

Thanks.

[Dennis Leahy]

Hi blufire,

An aside (sort of) to the conversation is about what gripreaper posted: I saw all the same bits and pieces posted publicly. As you noted, he's a brilliant guy and he appears to me to save simply synthesized the bits and pieces into the same whole that I did (and I didn't get a PM.)

Back to the premise that you are trying to explain...
Agriculture has been going on for about 10,000 years. That means that people across the entire planet have worked with the changing climate over the course of 10,000 years and have managed to feed themselves.

The "Green Revolution" was part mechanization and part chemical (remember, GMOs had not been invented yet.) In the very early 1900's, tractors came on the scene and changed farming forever. The population of the Earth in 1900 was approaching 2 billion. That means, using organic farming methods and mechanization, 2 billion people managed to feed themselves at the very beginning of the mechanization phase of the Green Revolution. By the time the very first agricultural chemicals were being deployed (in the mid 1940's, the population of the Earth had climbed to about 2.5 billion. Again, 2.5 billion feeding themselves organically (and using "modern" farm machinery) at about 1945.

How many humans could have been fed using the 1945 level and degree of mechanization, and with the shared knowledge of farming and farming technology at that point? We'll never know - but they fed all 2.5 billion hungry mouths. It won't do much good to rely on speculation, but I will offer some anyway: I suspect that even in 1945, crop production was not anywhere near maxed-out for the existing technology and amount of available arable land, and in 1945, they might have maxed-out at being able to feed 5 billion people. Knowing what we know now about organic farming, having the ability to desalinate to expand the amount of arable land as well as to greatly increase yields in some regions, having vastly improved mechanization now compared to 1945, removing the hundreds of billions of tons of crops grown to fatten animals (as bad as a 100:1 weight ratio, compared to having humans just eat the crop foods themselves), employing vertical farming techniques for many crops -which might multiply the yield per footprint acre by 10, maybe even 100 times, and employing methods such as the "French biointensive method", I would wager that we could easily feed 20 billion humans - using organic methods. To get to the maximum number, we'd have to figure out how high vertical "farm" operations could be, and how many of the footprint acres would be dedicated to vertical farming operations. I suspect my estimates are very conservative, and that the real number might max out at 40 or even 80 billion people that could be fed by terrestrial-based farming (without futuristic, anti-gravity farms high up in the sky.)

Your logic is incorrect in examining the 1000+ acre farms: they were specifically designed to be chemical-based farms with ultra-massive machinery. These are "unnatural"/aberrant outdoor factories. Remove them from the equation, and replace them with either very large organic farms run by a large collective of workers (let's make them "worker-owners", give them skin in the game, and assure success), or smaller organic farms run by smaller groups (probably still a bit much for one family, but maybe a small group of families and/or hired hands. Let's also give all the now-defunct ag-chem companies something to do: produce organic fertilizer that is not animal feces based. Perhaps algae-based?

This has been an exercise in conjecture, but attempting to be realistic.

Away from conjecture and back to statistics, examining the "need" for GMO seeds/foods to feed 7 billion (or 10, or 20...)
The very first transgenic plants were commercially grown in 1993. That the FIRST, not the majority. In 1990, 5.3 billion people were on the Earth, and although some were certainly malnourished, to be counted in the statistics means you were alive. The humans of planet Earth fed themselves, all 5.3 billion of themselves, without ONE single GMO seed. Not one.

This includes crops stupidly grown to be turned into fuel (it takes more fuel to grow the grain than it yields - stupid), and hundreds of billions of pounds of crops grown to fatten "meat" animals (again, the ratio is astounding: to get one pound of beef requires 16 bushels of oats!), as well as allowing Wall Street speculators to trade crops as commodity including trading futures and allowing "put" options on crops (these all greatly raise the price of food and cause the mega-factory "farms" to shift to a business decision that may be quite detrimental to the food amount and quality available to eat.

Food is highly politically charged fodder for gigantic outdoor food factories and their parent corporations to make profit. This is an extremely important point! No optimization towards actual human need is done. NONE! In fact (read some Wade Frazier, he'll really clue us in to the deliberately foisted scarcity paradigm), any food scarcity in the US and other developed countries is artificial and contrived! For profit! These megalithic corporations could care less if all mouths are fed - just as long as their coffers are fed.

So, the argument that seeds/food need to be GMO falls completely apart.

Unless...
As Sidney brought up, the only way GMO seeds could be a "need" is if the Controllers allow the playing field (quite literally) to be poisoned so vastly with aluminum or barium, or other chemicals that only a seed manufactured to resist these toxins could survive and/or thrive.

The premise that Earth climate (based on earthly, solar, or galactic cycles) will become so drastic that only GMO seeds will save us is science fiction.

That is why I asked you, specifically, in post # 111 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59869-Personal-controversial-view-of-Monsanto-Globalists-and-Technology&p=694719&viewfull=1#post694719), for any scientific proof of this assertion. Monsanto DID lie and say they have this, but it was a lie.

As a gardener with farming experience, you know there are infestations and climatic conditions EVERY YEAR (or nearly every year) that reduce some yield of some crops. Last year (around here) we had a very tough year with Aster Yellows Disease, and carrot production was down (and the taste was off.) I have seen summers that were very cold, very hot, very wet, or very dry; late spring frosts, early fall frosts, incessant fog, hail and damaging winds, and the cycles of various insects. Some years, the broccoli plants produce massive amounts of florets; other years they are sparse.. and on and on with all the different vegetable and fruits and grains and legumes. But every year, some relatively "advanced beginner" gardener like me produces hundreds of pounds of organic food, and the grocery stores (though prices may go up in bad years) rarely (if ever) have NONE of any specific crop.

A GMO seedling will NOT survive a hailstorm, or a monsoon, or a severe drought (this has been proven, not just conjecture.)

The VAST majority of GMO seeds on the planet have exactly ONE attribute: you can spray the plant directly with Monsanto's own glyphosate ("Roundup".) This is not technology to withstand gamma radiation from space, or something else - it is a business gambit designed to see a one-two punch of both the seeds that can withstand glyphosate plus the glyphosate itself. Genius? No. Evil genius? Yes, I believe so. The motivation is greed, not altruism. Monsanto EARNED the distinction of "the worst corporation in the world" and it was not just by tricking farmers to spend money on the GMO seeds to withstand Roundup plus the Roundup itself. Have you any idea how many farmers have been deliberately destroyed by Monsanto in their quest for complete domination of the global food production?

Seeds/plants have a pretty amazing range of tolerable conditions. Farmers, organic farmers, can keep supplying us with organic foods no matter what Mother Earth, Old Sol, or even the Galactic Gremlins throw at us - as long as we don't have to also battle deliberately injected toxins with seeds that "miraculously" happen to have been developed by Monsanto and their ilk to withstand.

My final thought is that in the middle of a nice, hot (normal) summer, some species of caterpillars will develop very thick "fur coats" - and that just happens to then be followed by a particularly cold winter. Somehow, Mother Nature "knew" in advance and "telegraphed" the information to those caterpillars to help them withstand the upcoming changes. Don't you think Mother Nature does this with seeds as well? (And, has been for literally hundreds of millions of years, through enormous changes in climate that are even beyond the mad scientists at Monsanto.)

Dennis

[gripreaper]

blufire, I really am trying to remain open and optimistic about what you are trying to convey, because what you have chosen to bring forward, stands to unhinge and unravel the entire existing historical record, and is a very bold and all encompassing postulate, which if true, affects every aspect of every human being in every possible way on this planet.

What did you expect would happen when you come on a public forum and publicly disclose that you are having alien contact memories from your childhood (see opening post to this thread), then further into this thread lay out two scenario's for the future, both of them catastrophic, and then postulate that the only solution is GMO food? With over 40 years of experience amongst farmers of many sizes and having witnessed the evolution of farming over this span of time, who else can we turn to, to uncover the truth? You took on this gargantuan task. You brought this forward.

Keep in mind though, that the premise you are postulating, which is: The controllers are attempting to preserve the genome, are preparing for a cataclysmic inevitability as rapidly as possible guided by "shepherds" and GMO is the only way is, as you put it, VERY controversial.

I would also assume that you understand, having been so close to the inside workings of farming, that the "farm claims" lawsuits the last 40 years over the massive foreclosed loans which bankrupted the second and third generation farms which were PAID FOR and owned and farmed organically, were over the idea of increased yields, better farming practices, etc. which did not work?

Of course you are aware how Willie Nelson sang about the farmer’s plight, tried to raise awareness and funds to help these farmers, how their many appellate court cases failed until the case made it all the way to the US Supreme Court, and these farmers were totally wiped out, even though they eventually won their case?

Then you must also be aware that they NEVER collected on the awards the SUPREME COURT awarded them, were never restored to the multi generational farms they lost, and were beaten down by big agra business., namely Monsanto. This is when farm land consolidated into the big mega agra corporate farms. This stealing of farms and merging them into mega corporate conglomerates was not a natural progression based on market supply and demand for food.

Those farms were stolen.

You are probably fully aware that the freemen movements also started at that time, because as a result of the farm claims, it became obvious to some that our government was complicit and complacent to the needs of the farmers and sympathetic to the multinational corporate interests. The Montana siege was an early attempt to retain individual sovereignty and to continue to uncover the frauds of governments and corporations, and their collusion's, and has evolved in the last 30 years into the patriot movements, etc. Leroy Schweitzer died in prison after 30 years.

The blocking of NAWAPA alone is causing the scarcity paradigm to proliferate. The funds to implement and build NAWAPA have been available and have been absconded to the tune of 14 trillion dollars by the controllers, just in North America alone, to maintain their hold on agriculture and the paradigm of scarce food supply, for benevolent reasons?

So, why terraform the planet? Why spray aluminum and barium in the atmosphere, which is showing up in our soils and our water supplies? Why?? Why manipulate weather patterns which are "CAUSING" massive heat waves, massive flooding, hurricanes, droughts, and massive perturbations in the ionosphere, through HAARP and other technologies? Why??

All of these elements go hand in hand and are inseparable. One cannot look at weather changes as the primary reason for GMO without addressing these weather manipulations.

What I see, is imperialistic global measures by megalomaniacal inhuman elites to poison and alter the very basic structure of the ecosystem, through manipulation of nature and her natural laws, for an agenda which "appears" to be very malevolent and detrimental to all of mankind.

Please provide the evidence to show that this postulate in BOLD above is not true.

[161803398]

I understand what is going on. They are trying to control our food supply and they think the purpose of people is to be slaves. The people who work for these companies are either morally challenged or deluded. There is no defense and I have no sympathy for any of them.

Its interesting how easily we slide over the cliff.

http://www.gmwatch.org/gm-firms/11153-bayer-a-history

In 1946 the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal concluded that without IG Farben the Second World War would simply not have been possible. The Chief Prosecutor, Telford Taylor, warned: "These companies, not the lunatic Nazi fanatics, are the main war criminals. If the guilt of these criminals is not brought to daylight and if they are not punished, they will pose a much greater threat to the future peace of the world than Hitler if he were still alive." Their indictment stated that due to the activities of IG Farben "the life and happiness of all peoples in the world were adversely affected." Charges as grave as fomenting war and killing slave labourers were also added. In his opening statement the Nuremberg Chief Prosecutor pointed out that, "The indictment accuses these men of major responsibility for visiting upon mankind the most searing and catastrophic war in human history. It accuses them of wholesale enslavement, plunder and murder."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?_4VHG9KePHc

Harvest of Fear

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/05/monsanto200805

"When the stranger persisted, Rinehart showed him the door. On the way out the man kept making threats. Rinehart says he can’t remember the exact words, but they were to the effect of: “Monsanto is big. You can’t win. We will get you. You will pay.”

Scenes like this are playing out in many parts of rural America these days as Monsanto goes after farmers, farmers’ co-ops, seed dealers—anyone it suspects may have infringed its patents of genetically modified seeds. As interviews and reams of court documents reveal, Monsanto relies on a shadowy army of private investigators and agents in the American heartland to strike fear into farm country. They fan out into fields and farm towns, where they secretly videotape and photograph farmers, store owners, and co-ops; infiltrate community meetings; and gather information from informants about farming activities. Farmers say that some Monsanto agents pretend to be surveyors. Others confront farmers on their land and try to pressure them to sign papers giving Monsanto access to their private records. Farmers call them the “seed police” and use words such as “Gestapo” and “Mafia” to describe their tactics. "

But they have our best interests at heart, right?


http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/0103/15.php

Chemical giant paid students to drink pesticide - SundayTimes - Ethics of Human Pesticide Studies Questioned - Reuters

I find the use of the word "Questioned" quite shocking. Is there a question?



I guess what happened in India has nothing to do with Monsanto:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?ebnOX3RbuCE

[blufire]

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?32007-Deep-in-Foxfire-Hollow--meanderings-of-a-slightly-crazy-mountain-woman-&p=695407#post695407

[161803398]

Monsansto in Iraq and Afghanistan

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_18999.cfm

Order 81

http://www.alternet.org/story/62273/why_iraqi_farmers_might_prefer_death_to_paul_bremer%27s_order_81

[blufire]

Monsansto in Iraq and Afghanistan

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_18999.cfm

Order 81

http://www.alternet.org/story/62273/why_iraqi_farmers_might_prefer_death_to_paul_bremer%27s_order_81

Please do not post these stories on this thread. There are plenty others where it is more appropriate. You are not going to change my mind in any way shape or form.

I am asking you with respect to move it to another thread

[161803398]

I have a personal, possibly (maybe not so) controversial view of Monsanto too...but I cant print it.

[Sidney]

Monsansto in Iraq and Afghanistan

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_18999.cfm

Order 81

http://www.alternet.org/story/62273/why_iraqi_farmers_might_prefer_death_to_paul_bremer%27s_order_81

Please do not post these stories on this thread. There are plenty others where it is more appropriate. You are not going to change my mind in any way shape or form.

I am asking you with respect to move it to another thread

Those articles are quite on topic , SPOT ON, in fact. If they belong anywhere on this forum, this it it.

[WhiteFeather]

And It seems Pappa George Bush was also showing an interest In Monsteranto as well as all of His Assclown Party Croanies assembled in the FDA Gentlemen's Club. He's as destructive as white on organic rice. No Pun Intended!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCer5NmEw5U

[Sidney]

And It seems Pappa George Bush was also showing an interest In Monsteranto as well as all of His Assclown Party Croanies assembled in the FDA Gentlemen's Club. He's as destructive as white on organic rice. No Pun Intended!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCer5NmEw5U

That is really gut churning.:bad::yuck::evil::wof::sick:

[Another1]

gut churning is a good word - pesky safety procedures? who needs em?

[Dennis Leahy]

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?32007-Deep-in-Foxfire-Hollow--meanderings-of-a-slightly-crazy-mountain-woman-&p=695407#post695407

"Deus ex machina"

How can anyone argue against god, angels, or aliens whispering into someone's ear? All I have is a human voice.

All I can do is to point out to you that if an entity with a nefarious agenda whispered into your ear, and presented in a beatific fashion, it would be VERY convincing... until the results of the actions of this entity started showing signs that there was a hidden nefarious agenda. You have written that you eat organically, avoid GMO foods, and know that the actions of Monsanto are (or at least present as) evil - even though you are convinced it is a variation of the "necessary evil" theme, that in the end it will all make sense even if the tough love was hard to take. You know that those of us trying to warn you that the conclusions you have accepted are based on a reality that is vastly different than what we are all witnessing.

On some level, you have to realize that in telling us that GMO is the future of food and the survival of humankind, you are basically saying, "go ahead, drink the Kool-Ade."

The fact that you stated, "You are not going to change my mind in any way shape or form" means this is not a debate or even a conversation. I do hope you'll continue (and I think you should move or copy the post linked above to THIS thread where it belongs.)

I'm frightened for you, and feel like I have lost a compatriot to the "dark side." I never know what to say to anyone about "alien" encounters, having not had one and being someone with a pretty strong need of experiential validation. That said, I'll assume you've had one (or a series) of encounters. That does not mean they have your best interest in mind, nor mine, nor humanity's, nor planet Earth's. Know them by their deeds (and don't be too late in figuring it out.)

I'll be an observer for the remainder of this thread, and again, hope you'll put all your cards on the table, both because it is a fascinating story and in the hopes that when you write it all down and read it back to yourself, you may see something that you missed before.

Dennis

[Another1]

Youtube's scripts noticed I have been looking at videos on this subject and offered this to me on my last log in. Amazing to see the origins of this mess. People tried their best to warn us and got laughed off, ridiculed, smeared in their profession.

p5oixaFrppA

[Sierra]

You are not going to change my mind in any way shape or form.

Not going to change your mind in any way, shape or form? So this is supposed to be a pro-Monsanto, pro-GMO monologue in your opinion? Only those that agree with you can post? (Good luck with that.)

Blufire, if you cannot tell that using my posts or profile not as a 'friend', but against me in a silly effort to show how I must shut up because I am a have according to your definition, there is no point in my trying to explain the difference to you. Ditto how you accuse GripReaper of crimes without due process through the moderation channels. Gripreaper bent over backwards to explain to you where he got his information, pretty much like you informing me where you got your information. Sort of, but in a nice way... to be kind to you... as a friend.

I begin to think that when you say we hate you, you are projecting. I don't see anyone else on this thread, lower themselves to personal attacks, when they find their arguments ineffective. I don't see anyone else say they are not bound by the guidelines of this forum. I do see you as taking things personally.

Back to topic, and going forward.

Monsanto and us. There is never, and never will be unity between good and evil. This is why you make no headway to convince anyone that Monsanto is the good guys, the heroic guys, the poor hated martyrs who sacrifice their reputations for the sake of the world's poor. <Visualize a rude jacking motion to see my opinion of that particular meme.>

You repeat the same fear based doomsday meme, as if that single exercise in false, and negative propaganda is a solid basis for poisoning most of the world's land, most of the world's water, most of the world's flora and therefore, most of the world's fauna (fauna includes us). This is depopulation in progress right under our noses. This is a deliberate and premeditated ELE, designed to kill 6.5 billion people, (and pity the poor earth as collateral damage).

Did you know, that 80% of U.S. manufactured food is banned in Europe, because it is regarded as poisonous? Why? Because they are made of GMO produce, on land poisoned with Monsanto Round Up. (Did you know there is a petition going around to stop Monsanto from INCREASING the poison put in Round Up?)



"Far back in history, there is evidence that men who have attempted to solve the riddle of water have been bitterly attacked. Every attempt to explain the nature of water in old books has been demolished in the later editions. In any case, maintaining the sense of mystery about water ensures the prosperity of the capital intensive economy, for financial interest thrives only on a defective economy. If the riddle surrounding the origins of water were solved, it would be possible to make as much pure water available as required at any location; in this way vast areas of desert would become fertile. As a consequence, the selling values of the produce would sink so low that there would be no more incentive to speculate, or to develop agricultural machinery. The concept of unrestricted production and cheap machine power is so revolutionary, that the way of life all over the world would experience a change. Maintaining the mystery of water, therefore, maintains the value of capital, so every attempt to come nearer to an explanation is attacked."

"Our ... Mother Earth is an organism that no science in the world can rationalize. Everything on her ... is dependent upon Her and all must hopelessly perish if that Earth dies ..."

"This civilization is the work of man, who high-handedly and ignorant of the true workings of Nature, has created a world without meaning or foundation, which now threatens to destroy him, for through his behavior and his activities, he, who should be her master, has disturbed Nature's inherent unity."

"It has been proven psychologically that human beings can only appreciate or apprise, i.e. comprehend and understand, something new, if they can succeed in raising up the subconscious immured in their brain cells into their higher consciousness. If this cannot be achieved, then all preaching is useless."

- Victor Schauberger
Risk the whole earth and all who live upon her? How is this right thinking? As if the planet has not gone through severe weather changes (ice age anyone?) before. As if we should be willing to sacrifice the land, the water, the air, the flora and fauna ... for all future generations for the sake of one generation now? How nuts is that? If I were to follow the murderous money trail, where would it go? This is insanity by any standard but that of insanity. This is suicidal insanity. This is a most selfish and psychopathic insanity, that walks the corridors of our military/industrial and Illuminati complex.

And one last quote from President Kennedy, spoken seven days before his assassination:

"There is a plot in this country to enslave every man, woman, and child. Before I leave this high and noble office, I intend to expose this plot.

Connect the dots Blufire, connect the dots.

Sierra

[WhiteFeather]

I might of botched this one up a bit please excuse, Alex Collier stated something like this in one of his Project Camelot Interviews. I Loved this statement and the way he spoke these words at the awake and aware conference in 2009.
You cant survive on a pile of gold when there is no planet left.

[gripreaper]

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?32007-Deep-in-Foxfire-Hollow--meanderings-of-a-slightly-crazy-mountain-woman-&p=695407#post695407

"Deus ex machina"

How can anyone argue against god, angels, or aliens whispering into someone's ear? All I have is a human voice.

All I can do is to point out to you that if an entity with a nefarious agenda whispered into your ear, and presented in a beatific fashion, it would be VERY convincing... until the results of the actions of this entity started showing signs that there was a hidden nefarious agenda. You have written that you eat organically, avoid GMO foods, and know that the actions of Monsanto are (or at least present as) evil - even though you are convinced it is a variation of the "necessary evil" theme, that in the end it will all make sense even if the tough love was hard to take. You know that those of us trying to warn you that the conclusions you have accepted are based on a reality that is vastly different than what we are all witnessing.

On some level, you have to realize that in telling us that GMO is the future of food and the survival of humankind, you are basically saying, "go ahead, drink the Kool-Ade."

The fact that you stated, "You are not going to change my mind in any way shape or form" means this is not a debate or even a conversation. I do hope you'll continue (and I think you should move or copy the post linked above to THIS thread where it belongs.)

I'm frightened for you, and feel like I have lost a compatriot to the "dark side." I never know what to say to anyone about "alien" encounters, having not had one and being someone with a pretty strong need of experiential validation. That said, I'll assume you've had one (or a series) of encounters. That does not mean they have your best interest in mind, nor mine, nor humanity's, nor planet Earth's. Know them by their deeds (and don't be too late in figuring it out.)

I'll be an observer for the remainder of this thread, and again, hope you'll put all your cards on the table, both because it is a fascinating story and in the hopes that when you write it all down and read it back to yourself, you may see something that you missed before.

Dennis

And here is my response to blufire's declaration about the aliens who appeared to her and are the basis for her unmitigated stance to which she cannot be "swayed" No way, shape, or form.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?32007-Deep-in-Foxfire-Hollow--meanderings-of-a-slightly-crazy-mountain-woman-&p=695470#post695470

I'm not invalidating her experience. I'm just asking her to bring forward how, why, when, where and what makes this so unmitigated a stance.

[blufire]

Sierra, you suggest I connect the dots. Well I have been for many years. I apologise because this will sound arrogant and condescending but the dots you and most on this thread have recently made I made many years ago. I am connecting other dots now and even more rapidly.

Dennis I have not gone to the dark side in any way. I wouldn't be subjecting myself to this mess if I had.

Gripreaper thank you for your unwavering wisdom and redirect.


I am doing research and gathering my thoughts on how (if) I do proceed. Meantime please read the thread I posted above.

Keep an open mind and heart. Listen with courage and resolve. . . Not fear and apathy

[blufire]

We all dream and desire a future much like the picture below. . . . Right?

Please explain to me how we (the alternative world or ‘good guys’) are going to obtain this existence of abundant life for everyone.

Please explain to me who in current reality is actually working toward this future.

Please explain to me who in the ‘alternative world’ is literally creating businesses and plans and goals to expedite all that we need to get to this place.

Please show me the technology that will make this type of world a reality that is being manufactured by the ‘alternative world’ or the ‘good guys’

Please show me anybody in the ‘alternative world’ that is making a profound effort to turn things around in order to achieve this future.

Name me the people

Name me the corporations that aren’t connected with other biotech companies or technology.

I’m serious . . . . name me any company that is not connected with the ‘monsanto’ corporations or the elitists of the world that is truly capable of making this future a reality.

[william r sanford72]

3 years ago my dormant dna was triggerd.the switch was thrown.wide open.this was done rapidly.and with purpose.prior unknowningly i prepared for this moment.sold off my life.stopped working.dropped out compleatly.this was no small feat on my part.with having a family.wife.kids.hell..how could i explain what i was doing when i didnt compeatly understand either...for 3 years i sat on this farm.no computer.nothing really to guide me as far as tech and access to info to help me understand and find the truth..what was happening to me.i questioned my sanity many times..therefore..my point beeing i guess is there is valid truth and some light in what you present bluefire..i see you...felt it..thoe the one truth overlooked..that keeps me coming back to avalon..online even..the one thing..i havnt forgotten since my journey began..is were all creators..walking sparks of the divine concious made manifest.the gift.or some say the curse...so with this reality and truth i carry..i know deep down some where deep that we can change it all..without bending..twisting and altering nature or reality to the extent you propose has to happen.must happen.i agree..we will not wake up without sudden and drastic changes occuring to force this rebirth..does it have to happen the way it seems you suggest.maybe.keep up the good work.you really get me to go deep inside.and help me learn to detach and look clear...er..so bump to you.truth always.
William.

[Dennis Leahy]

We all dream and desire a future much like the picture below. . . . Right?
That image scares the hell out of a lot of people. Idyllic and utterly unique cottages surrounded in micro-sized food forests as a buffer between other utterly unique cottages/residences will elicit more smiling faces.



Please explain to me how we (the alternative world or ‘good guys’) are going to obtain this existence of abundant life for everyone.

Please explain to me who in current reality is actually working toward this future.

Please explain to me who in the ‘alternative world’ is literally creating businesses and plans and goals to expedite all that we need to get to this place.

Please show me the technology that will make this type of world a reality that is being manufactured by the ‘alternative world’ or the ‘good guys’

Please show me anybody in the ‘alternative world’ that is making a profound effort to turn things around in order to achieve this future.

Name me the people

Name me the corporations that aren’t connected with other biotech companies or technology.

I’m serious . . . . name me any company that is not connected with the ‘monsanto’ corporations or the elitists of the world that is truly capable of making this future a reality.



You present an impossible challenge. "Name me corporations..." is like asking us to name hot peppers above 100,000 Scoville units that are not hot. Have you ever seen a map of the inter-connectivity between global corporations? Are you aware how many of them share board members (and ALL of them share investors.) These large corporations ALL operate under a corporate charter that is (by US law, at least) required to make the highest profits possible. If you have heard that the corporate charter can be used to form a diagnosis of sociopathy, realize it is not just a smartass quip but an indictment.

The benevolent, happy, peaceful, bountiful, future of the world will NOT come from corporations - it will come either in spite of them or instead of them.

"Company" (as opposed to "corporation") could be bluefire and 5 other people joining forces under a single banner, and there are plenty of individuals and small groups that ARE working toward bringing about a future that is positive for humans and non-human life-forms alike. Corporations and the greed-based, competition-based, impossible to satiate individuals at or near the top of the global pyramid are the impediments to this evolution, not the bridge to it. Just because some exploitative, planet-raping corporation manufactures or packages something benevolent does not mean that the benevolent product could not have been packaged or manufactured by smaller truly "green", truly "fair-trade" (non-exploitative), ecological individuals or groups.

Anyone lost in the errant notion that only corporations can save us should be screaming for forcing all "C" corporations to recharter as "B" corporations, screaming for strict adherence to the highest level of ecological and fair-trade regulations for raw materials extraction, screaming for the epitome of ecological waste management from corporations, and screaming for non-exploitation of the corporate workforce. In addition, governmental bodies should not allow corporations to monopolize any field or industry, to make sure that any goods created or services offered by any one corporation can be rejected outright and acquired from others. That way, for example, a corporation compliant with all regulations but still "piggy" in regards to top management taking a ridiculously high share of the profits could be rejected by consumers on those grounds.

And, by the way, it's not the "alternative world", it is the world - minus the worst offenders, the most ecocidal, the most exploitative, the most greed-driven, and the least compassionate. We'll do just fine without them.

Dennis

[Robin]

I wish that I noticed this thread earlier! I read each page and I think that I can offer a differing perspective that may tie in what blufire is trying to bring forth. I believe that in order for us to understand GMOs, we need to analyze the concept from a philosophical standpoint.

We live in a universe of polarity, where there exists both matter and anti-matter. Likewise, there exists orientations of both service-to-others and service-to-self beings.

On planet Earth, all important elements of society have been infiltrated by service-to-self beings (Illuminati, Draco Reptilians?). These include government, banking, military, corporations, and agriculture.

These elements do not have do be detrimental to a functional society, but when they are run by service-to-self beings, they are poisoned with an intent to control humanity for destructive agendas.

If we were to remove the virus (Illuminati, Draco Reptilians) from these elements, it is likely that they would function in a healthy, sustainable, and caring way.

In the case of agriculture and GMOs, by removing the Illuminati virus we may be able to use GMOs to our advantage. GMOs do not have to be a bad thing. The technology was poisoned along with all other elements of society.

blufire, I commented on your thread The New World and Civilization (the messages from my Contact as a child) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63899-The-New-World-and-Civilization--the-messages-from-my-Contact-as-a-child-&p=756785&viewfull=1#post756785). I will repeat it again as it did not receive any attention:




"I feel that you have much more to say, blufire. Whether or not you wish to release more information to all of us is of course up to you. But I hope that you do.

I feel that I understand your stance on GMOs. Like many subjects throughout our history, this one has been widely misunderstood. In addition, mankind has manipulated the essence of its creations to both positive and negative effects.

We have been genetically modifying organisms for thousands of years as a conscious species. By definition of a GMO, we have manipulated the genetics of wolves to form domesticated breeds of dogs to our liking and our benefit. We didn't take a wolf to a laboratory and twist its genetics directly via chemical and DNA experimentation, but we stretched our experiment out for thousands of years indirectly. Either way, we played a hand in modifying an organism's DNA.

When it comes to crops, we have done the same thing. Corn, beans, squash, etc. have all been modified over thousands of years to give us what we have today. Native Americans, essentially, are master geneticists stretching many many years. They, unlike Monsanto, have decided to take the positive polarity of decision to manipulate genetics of crops so they are sustainable and work with the land.

Monsanto takes a different approach. Because of their service-to-self polarity and devious agendas, they seek to take advantage of the essence of genetic modification for purposes of enslavement and even murder.

But it doesn't have to be this way. Using our service-to-others polarity, we can use our knowledge of genetic modification to make crops that benefit us and the planet to a very healthy degree. In fact, some people do. I'm not going to do the research at this present moment, but I am sure that there are examples of laboratories around the world (probably not in the USA) who create new strains of crops to greatly benefit humanity.

As you have alluded to in previous posts, certain factions of humanity have been storing genetically modified food underground so we will have crops after potential world-wide disasters. This I believe. To me, this is a positive way to genetically modify crops.

GMOs do not have to be a bad thing. It is just another form of our technology. As you have also mentioned, we have both Reptilian and Mammallian genetics. It is up to us to balance both sides, become spiritually evolved enough to use our technology wisely (to assist our spiritual development), and to create a better future.

I do think that GMOs can be beneficial, as long as we don't have corporations like Monsanto in charge of the modifying.

Does this resonate with you at all, blufire?"

[blufire]

I am reposting here: Below is from this thread http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65473-Who-really-is-Barack-Obama-THIS-APPEARS-TO-BE-THE-TRUTH./page9



from Bills post #125

I should clarify my stance, which is non-negotiable, rock solid, and crystal clear: that the NWO plans are evil, being implemented by evil people (and/or beings).

They do not have the best interests of humanity at heart. They are serving something else.

I profoundly disagree with your stance, and although I know you believe what you are saying, and I respect your courage in telling your truth, I feel that you are just as profoundly incorrect and I strongly suspect you have been misled by others who wish you to be a promoter of an evil agenda. And I write those words knowing exactly what they mean.

In my opinion, you are inadvertently doing the cause for human freedom a huge disservice. It is a significant personal frustration for me that you cannot seem to see this.

I do believe you are well-intentioned: but in your words and vectors you promote, you might as well not be.


Bill, I will have to say I am having extreme deja’ vue right now and am very upset.

I was an evangelist’s (preacher) wife for 16 long years and the church we belonged was very legalistic and dogmatic. I worked hard at being the best minister’s wife possible by following the legalistic expectations every step of the way. This particular version of Christianity is huge on bible study to the point of understanding the books of the ‘bible’ from the original Greek and Hebrew.

The more I studied the ‘bible’ and what I was expected to teach and espouse and how I was to live my life (from the church’s dogma) I became profoundly troubled, because what I understood after all those years of personal study and application in my personal life and what this church and my evangelist husband wanted me to believe and do, simply did not match up. I found that I could not in any way support what my husband was teaching from the pulpit and what the church as a whole believed and promoted.

I found myself in a huge quandary. At this point in my marriage I had 2 small children and although I am college educated I had worked outside the home very little. I was young and scared, but could not come to terms with the lies and misery that was foundationally being taught and not only in this church but in the Christian Religion as a whole.

I began testing the waters with questions based soundly from scripture during bible studies at the church. I began asking questions and putting forth what was deemed by the leadership as disruptive and unsubmissive..

My questions and understanding were exactly what is brought out right in this forum . . . the flat out misconception of what the bible is and how Christianity was formed and why it has been so promoted over the centuries. I found ‘like minds’ in the alternative world when it came to the truth of organized religion.

Even though my questions and point of view could not be disproved or refuted I was told to cease my questioning and speaking my point of view.

I was brought before the elders of the church several times and made to be prayed over and chastised and bullied.

I was told over and over I was wrong . . . that I had been deceived by the devil and that I needed to repent and ask forgiveness for my sinful unsubmissive feminist ways. I was told I could no longer speak in the church or ask any more questions or make comments that were not in line with their and the churchs ‘truth’ and that I was being destructive to the congregation.


Now I find myself in the exact same place with the alternative world and with this forum and with you.


I know what I am saying is in direct opposition with the alternative worlds beliefs as a whole and what I am saying is as uncomfortable to most as my questions and comments were to the church.

So what Bill would you have me do?

You are saying much as the elders and my preacher husband said . . . .that I have been deceived by someone or something with an evil agenda to cause me to have these contrary points of view and beliefs . . . that just like the church I am harmful and a disservice to the forum and the alternative world.

I am sitting here in total disbelief that I find myself in the exact same place.

So you tell me Bill and the other perceived leaders of this forum . . . . am I being disfellowshipped and/or shunned and/or told to keep my mouth shut.

Am I to believe that again I am being deceived and duped by the ‘evil ones’ . . . .

Where do I go now? What do I do now?

I am drop dead serious . . . why in the hell should I even try any more????????????

[avid]

You are sooo defensive, yet negative of an alternate view, I suspect you are a schill - trying to decry our viewpoints. Perhaps you have been unwittingly 'mind-controlled' - nontheless - most of your comments rail against the common themes here - you remind me of someone I know very well - a scientist who thinks he knows everything, and blasts any new ideas he hasn't thought of himself. Despite many scientific papers. Despite physical and visual proof. Now go your way as you will not phase us here - ask your own questions to yourself! Blimey - sorry if I was rude - but enough is enough!!!

[Robin]

Basically we have 2 futures and both are foundationally based on eventually (soon) being a United Planet. One economic structure, one leadership, one spiritual construct, one goal or concentration of achievement. This is very broad generalization.

Again as I said in previous post.

1st Future. We continue on toward globalization. We will continue to populate the earth exponentially. Our planet will continue to experience rapid climate change. This climate change is cyclical and being exacerbated by unseen (to us) force in space.

.......

2nd Future. There will be a near ELE (extinction level event). Less than one billion humans will survive. The Controllers through the direction of our Shepherds have prepared and continue to prepare rapidly for this eventual reality.

I think that we all may be analyzing blufire's comment here too literally. Blufire may be correct in saying that there are two main timelines that we are on right now, but what I think we are overlooking is that these two main timelines have an infinite amount of deviations.

Possibly Futures
1st Future

sub-timeline a
sub-timeline b
sub-timeline c
sub-timeline d
. . . . .


2nd Future

sub-timeline a
sub-timeline b
sub-timeline c
sub-timeline d
. . . . .


I do not mean to put words into your mouth, blufire, but does this make sense to you? I think that you are correct in saying that we have two future timelines, but doesn't it also make sense that those two timelines can go down an infinite amount of sub-timelines?

[Delight]

We all dream and desire a future much like the picture below. . . . Right?

Honestly NO,NO,NO
In a cityscape like that it is sterile, with everything made organized and I would not fit there. Messy is just fine if its alive and happy.

I like where I live and just want it to be more user frieindly and believe it will be. I wish to have public transportation like the German plan I read about that used small vehicles and when one ordered a ride, it sent out the vehicle (even if one has to arrange in advance).

For shorter distances I want to ride a horse that lives in my home along with mu goats and cows and chickens (I am upstairs from the barn ideally), with all the wild creatures and wild nature left to its own. I do not plan to eat the animals and I like sprouts and in season vegies. Fruits!

I want to revere manure and turn garbage into treasure.

Please give me messy farmers markets, aquaaponic greenhouses that may be all rough but functional. I don't care about all neat and all tidy magastructured tiers. I want a garden that is not all in rows and trees everywhere and ANIMALS. I could not live without my dogs and cats.

My choice: the future that needs very little control because nature (including my body) is adaptable and flexible and guided by Divine intelligence. We know we are powerful and do not need all the coddling we are told. In Kosovo, in the war, the people ate grass. We trust that GAIA has our back and we have hers as well (not that she needs it...we need that cooperation).

We could have local management plus also the best of trade arranged by computers and loose knit coordinations too. As long as we know who is boss: LIFE!

I feel sorry in advance for the pictured world of the Venus projects sleek rigidity, the Zeitgeist movements regulations, The Thrive Hive, the Monsanto clonings, the pitiable gleanings of scraps that we are being brain washed to believe is all we can have and NO. I will not apologize for being foolish as I am and will stay and what if I will die before the dream comes true? Certainly then it will not matter because there is a whole wide sentient Universe after all.


GOD’S INQUIRY ABOUT LAWNS
Imagine the conversation The Creator might have had with St. Francis on the subject of lawns:

GOD: Francis, you know all about gardens and nature. What in the world is going on down there in the Midwest USA? What happened to the dandelions, violets, thistle and stuff I started eons ago? I had a perfect, no-maintenance garden plan. Those plants grow in any type of soil, withstand drought and multiply with abandon. The nectar from the long lasting blossoms attracts butterflies, honey bees and flocks of songbirds. I expected to see a vast garden of colors by now. But all I see are these green rectangles.

ST. FRANCIS: It’s the tribes that settled there, Lord. The Suburbanites. They started calling your flowers “weeds” and went to great lengths to kill them and replace them with grass.

GOD: Grass? But it’s so boring. It’s not colorful. It doesn’t attract butterflies, birds and bees, only grubs and sod worms. It’s temperamental with temperatures. Do these Suburbanites really want all that grass growing there?

ST. FRANCIS: Apparently so, Lord. They go to great pains to grow it and keep it green. They begin each spring by fertilizing grass and poisoning any other plant that crops up in the lawn.

GOD: The spring rains and warm weather probably make grass grow really fast. That must make the Suburbanites happy.

St. Francis: Apparently not, Lord. As soon as it grows a little, they cut it -- sometimes twice a week.

God: They cut it? Do they then bale it like hay?

St. Francis: Not exactly, Lord. Most of them rake it up and put it in bags.

God: They bag it? Why? Is it a cash crop? Do they sell it?

St. Francis: No Sir. Just the opposite. They pay to throw it away.

God: Now let me get this straight. They fertilize grass so it will grow. And when it does grow, they cut it off and pay to throw it away?

St. Francis: Yes, Sir.

God: These Suburbanites must be relieved in the summer when we cut back on the rain and turn up the heat. That surely slows the growth and saves them a lot of work.

St. Francis: You aren’t going to believe this Lord. When the grass stops growing so fast, they drag out hoses and pay more money to water it so they can continue to mow it and pay to get rid of it.

God: What nonsense. At least they kept some of the trees. That was a sheer stroke of genius, if I do say so myself. The trees grow leaves in the spring to provide beauty and shade in the summer. In the autumn they fall to the ground and form a natural blanket to keep moisture in the soil and protect the trees and bushes. Plus, as they rot, the leaves form compost to enhance the soil. It’s a natural circle of life.

St. Francis: You better sit down, Lord. The Suburbanites have drawn a new circle. As soon as the leaves fall, they rake them into great piles and pay to have them hauled away.

God: No. What do they do to protect the shrub and tree roots in the winter and to keep the soil moist and loose?

St. Francis: After throwing away the leaves, they go out and buy something which they call mulch. They haul it home and spread it around in place of the leaves.

God: And where do they get this mulch?

St. Francis: They cut down trees and grind them up to make the mulch.

God: Enough. I don’t want to think about this anymore. Saint Catherine, you’re in charge of the arts. What movie have they scheduled for us tonight?

St. Catherine: “Dumb and Dumber,” Lord. It’s a really stupid movie about...

God: Never mind, I think I just heard the whole story from St. Francis.http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/Spiritual_Humor.html

[william r sanford72]

dont normaly do this..Bluefire..as i posted above.you bring something to the table that made me go deeper.your post.your unwavering truth.your truth.might not bee mine..or i agee 100 percent.you sure in the heck force the truth seeker in me to give pause.its a rare thing as of this moment.so again.thank you.william and family...ps.truth always.

[Robin]

GOD’S INQUIRY ABOUT LAWNS
Imagine the conversation The Creator might have had with St. Francis on the subject of lawns:

I apologize if this comment is out of context, but I deem it relevant (with a comical twist). I see the conversation, realistically, sounding much like this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrahQpIWD08

[Bill Ryan]

I am reposting here: Below is from this thread http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65473-Who-really-is-Barack-Obama-THIS-APPEARS-TO-BE-THE-TRUTH./page9



from Bills post #125

I should clarify my stance, which is non-negotiable, rock solid, and crystal clear: that the NWO plans are evil, being implemented by evil people (and/or beings).

They do not have the best interests of humanity at heart. They are serving something else.

I profoundly disagree with your stance, and although I know you believe what you are saying, and I respect your courage in telling your truth, I feel that you are just as profoundly incorrect and I strongly suspect you have been misled by others who wish you to be a promoter of an evil agenda. And I write those words knowing exactly what they mean.

In my opinion, you are inadvertently doing the cause for human freedom a huge disservice. It is a significant personal frustration for me that you cannot seem to see this.

I do believe you are well-intentioned: but in your words and vectors you promote, you might as well not be. Bill, I will have to say I am having extreme deja’ vue right now and am very upset.

I was an evangelist’s (preacher) wife for 16 long years and the church we belonged was very legalistic and dogmatic. I worked hard at being the best minister’s wife possible by following the legalistic expectations every step of the way. This particular version of Christianity is huge on bible study to the point of understanding the books of the ‘bible’ from the original Greek and Hebrew.

The more I studied the ‘bible’ and what I was expected to teach and espouse and how I was to live my life (from the church’s dogma) I became profoundly troubled, because what I understood after all those years of personal study and application in my personal life and what this church and my evangelist husband wanted me to believe and do, simply did not match up. I found that I could not in any way support what my husband was teaching from the pulpit and what the church as a whole believed and promoted.

I found myself in a huge quandary. At this point in my marriage I had 2 small children and although I am college educated I had worked outside the home very little. I was young and scared, but could not come to terms with the lies and misery that was foundationally being taught and not only in this church but in the Christian Religion as a whole.

I began testing the waters with questions based soundly from scripture during bible studies at the church. I began asking questions and putting forth what was deemed by the leadership as disruptive and unsubmissive..

My questions and understanding were exactly what is brought out right in this forum . . . the flat out misconception of what the bible is and how Christianity was formed and why it has been so promoted over the centuries. I found ‘like minds’ in the alternative world when it came to the truth of organized religion.

Even though my questions and point of view could not be disproved or refuted I was told to cease my questioning and speaking my point of view.

I was brought before the elders of the church several times and made to be prayed over and chastised and bullied.

I was told over and over I was wrong . . . that I had been deceived by the devil and that I needed to repent and ask forgiveness for my sinful unsubmissive feminist ways. I was told I could no longer speak in the church or ask any more questions or make comments that were not in line with their and the churchs ‘truth’ and that I was being destructive to the congregation.


Now I find myself in the exact same place with the alternative world and with this forum and with you.


I know what I am saying is in direct opposition with the alternative worlds beliefs as a whole and what I am saying is as uncomfortable to most as my questions and comments were to the church.

So what Bill would you have me do?

You are saying much as the elders and my preacher husband said . . . .that I have been deceived by someone or something with an evil agenda to cause me to have these contrary points of view and beliefs . . . that just like the church I am harmful and a disservice to the forum and the alternative world.

I am sitting here in total disbelief that I find myself in the exact same place.

So you tell me Bill and the other perceived leaders of this forum . . . . am I being disfellowshipped and/or shunned and/or told to keep my mouth shut.

Am I to believe that again I am being deceived and duped by the ‘evil ones’ . . . .

Where do I go now? What do I do now?

I am drop dead serious . . . why in the hell should I even try any more????????????


Dear blufire:

Your commendable openness about your prior experience is very revealing. It looks as plain as a pikestaff that history is repeating itself for you ... personally. This has nothing to do with the forum, though, or the matters discussed. It is some kind of a personal pattern which all therapists and counselors will be familiar with. This kind of thing happens quite often with many people.

Here's the lowdown:
1. This is no Church.
2. I am not your ex-husband.
and, importantly
3. Just because you were not wrong the first time, does NOT mean you are not wrong now.

<-- I'm not minimalizing how you feel. But when it comes to the analysis of facts and the conducting of rational debate, there's no connection here apart from your strong subjective feelings of being once again unfairly marginalized, persecuted, and misunderstood.

In the presentation you make of your views on GMOs and much else, you could be wrong, you know.

You asked:


Am I to believe that again I am being deceived and duped by the ‘evil ones’ . . . . My answer is: in my strong opinion, yes, absolutely.

[Hervé]

To all who have an inner knolewdge of having had encounters with non-ordinary critters (... and I am not excluded)...

Here is something to really, seriously, deeply consider:


The earmark of a good theory is that it can predict and therefore be tested by, as yet, unobserved phenomena and occurrences.

[...]

Hypnosis gives the key as to how implanters work out their implants and mind-control the future behaviour of their victims:



The only other time I have personally witnessed what I saw in my son was a time years ago when a friend of mine was hypnotized by her brother in front of me and her boyfriend. Her brother asked me what I would like him to have her do after he woke her up. I wanted to see if she would repeat something that she would considered silly under normal circumstances. I said, have her get up and flush the toilet every time you tug at your collar.

So he gave her the command, then woke her up. He tugged his collar, she got up, went into the bathroom and flushed the toilet, came back and sat down. He tugged his collar again, and she did it again. And again. After three or four times, I finally asked her why she kept getting up to flush the toilet.

First, she just said it needed flushing. She did it again. And again, I asked her why she kept flushing the toilet. Each time I asked her, she would make up some lame reason as to why she had to flush the toilet.

She got more and more annoyed at me for asking, but she did it again and again upon command and could never see that there was anything strange about it.

Her brother hypnotized her once more to release her of the command, but what an amazing thing to have witnessed.

This is what I saw in my son. He could not answer a simple question but only parrot the party line.





[...]

[soleil]

Sierra. . . . How do we feed the billions until we have the technology?






I have grown my food all my life and my growing skills have been greatly challenged the last 10 years because of the climate. Which is why I only grow now for my family.

you answered your own question here....
let people feed themselves. why should anyone take the responsibility....?


im having trouble believing that blufire is not being paid to say all this......anyways, im enjoying this thread for all the smart discerning people saying exactly what ive been thinking....

oh, and i live in the country here in ontario canada, and i see corn fields and soy fields and hay fields....for the cows. anyways, i always think, "man, if there were tomatoes, and fruit trees, or berry fields or even a mixture of all veggies on the one plot that holds alllll that corn (and theyre growing it closer and closer together compared to when iwas a,kid).....wed be feeding way more people a way more fullfilling diet than just straight up corn and soy....tell me, how are corn and soy more importantto feed the poverish billions vs a real garden on the same plot of land....

you blufire are a paid rep for somebody right? i just cant quite grasp your stance(even with your childhood story)....like its a joke to me...although im loving reading this thread....(ok i now have to go back to pg5and keep reading to catch up.)

[avid]

I have a very good friend who is an internationally known hypnotist, he had no talent in that direction - but he had a great teacher. He has captivated thousands in theatres across the world. He can't hypnotise me - as I know him for what he is!!! He can't do his dearest friends or family! It is to do with the teachings from the Tavistock Institute, and preying on the subconscious fears. If he asks someone to come up to see him on stage - they are challenging their disbeliefs - yet he overcomes them by calming them down and stating 'you are here - you have overcome your fear - therefore there is no fear' and then the stupidity begins... I have warned him that some people thinking an onion may be an apple could damage their health (as I have an allergic reaction to raw onion) does not deter the fun in the theatres. UK have clamped down on this now. The well-known are using their techniques in health clinics, dvd's et al. I have no doubt that there is mass-hynotherapy going on via our HD media. Don't subscribe to HD TV!!! They definitely use subliminal messaging. Split-second imaging/messaging is rife there, even though it is illegal. As for 3D - it addles your brain!!! Just my 2 pence ;-)
Oh - my friend always (undid) the parrot-fashion actions by grounding them before he left, that was a rule which was not to be crossed - however - there are those who are still left (sadly - in abeyance) as per Amzer Zo's last post.

[Bill Ryan]

GOD’S INQUIRY ABOUT LAWNS
Imagine the conversation The Creator might have had with St. Francis on the subject of lawns:

I apologize if this comment is out of context, but I deem it relevant (with a comical twist). I see the conversation, realistically, sounding much like this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrahQpIWD08


:bump:

Bumping this quite wonderful 2 minute video clip. MUST WATCH. :)

[chocolate]

:cool: oh so cool.
Thanks Bill for attracting some attention to it. This was really refreshing. I can't stop laughing. My stomach hurts.
Very true though.

[Sierra]

GOD’S INQUIRY ABOUT LAWNS
Imagine the conversation The Creator might have had with St. Francis on the subject of lawns:

I apologize if this comment is out of context, but I deem it relevant (with a comical twist). I see the conversation, realistically, sounding much like this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrahQpIWD08

Samwise, thank you! That was hilarious!

[sian]

in a nut shell, priceless, hit the nail on the head. :cheers:

[Hervé]

[...]


im having trouble believing that blufire is not being paid to say all this....

[...]

you blufire are a paid rep for somebody right?

[...]

No need for Mkultra handlers, satanic rituals adepts or ETs to disburse anything towards their implanted/post-hypnotic entranced victims... see Post #151 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59869-Personal-controversial-view-of-Monsanto-Globalists-and-Technology&p=759526&viewfull=1#post759526)

[AutumnW]

It appears that somebody was hijacked by monotheism and then by monsanto. We have our very own Messianic Monsanto Movement taking shape right here, right now. For the high religious holidays, we can exchange Santa Claus for Monsanto Claus. He's a big fat guy...wait a minute. That's not fat. Those are lipomas, fatty tumors! His elves are lethargic and his reindeer have been fed nothing but gmo grain their whole lives so they aren't doing much better. Oh well...there's always Easter! What's that? Easter bunny dead already? Darn.

On a heavier note, selective breeding isn't genetic modification. Genetic engineering involves gene splicing and artificial insertion. My dog is a purebred, selectively bred. She isn't a gmo dog, she was selectively bred. Big difference. Occasionally random mutations result in new strains and then there's always hybridization. But these could occur naturally and don't produce franken-food.

[blufire]

Howdy Dennis, it is very good to see you posting again. You always feel (if I may) like the big brother I never had. Always kinda there in a slightly aggravating way but in the long run you always keep an eye out, pat me on the head, set me straight when I need to be and send me on my way.

I agree very much with this post of yours and also with yours Delight. Much like you Delight I live in a very lived in home. I just came in from making the rounds around my mountain farm and making sure everyone is tucked in for the evening. I have to bring my goats and cow in close to the barn now because of the deer hunters possibly mistaking them for deer which means extra hay and water in the barnyard. Thinking about the best time to adjust the solar panels to catch all the sun I can. I stood for a long while with great satisfaction admiring at an almost full cord of firewood we put up this weekend . . . my back is not very happy but my soul is singing with almost all the preparations for the winter being done.

Would I ever live in a city like the picture I posted . . . nope. I don’t live in a city now. But for the billions of other people who do like city life and perhaps don’t have any other choice than to live close to conveniences then I would much rather (for them) to have the chance to live in a space that was closer to nature and cleaner and healthier than what our cities and urban sprawls are now.

Why should we not wish for them what we love so much in our own lives? I wish for Ulli’s high rise garden homes as she has talked so much about. But when I look around at who is actually working to create those dreams like Ulli’s gardens in the sky I don’t see anyone actively working on the technology to make this happen other than those that are hated so much.

Dennis you are right and I agree wholeheartedly that small groups of us will build (and are building) ‘green harbors’ away from all the insanity. But we small groups (from the way it seems) will always remain just that . . . .very few very small groups tucked away in out of the way places.


But the needs of the many of humanity outweigh the needs of the few of us who are capable of caring for ourselves and those immediately in our care.



I will have to say sway I was truly startled at this comment you made in post #152


you answered your own question here....
let people feed themselves. why should anyone take the responsibility....?

Do you really mean this? And if you do I find this incredibly cruel and uncaring. I agree that everyone should be as responsible as possible for themselves. But let me ask you a simple question . . . . do you totally and fully feed and care for yourself . . . you never go to the store? . . . . do you grow, harvest and preserve every bit of food you and those in your family eat year round? Most in this day and time and by most I mean BILLIONS of people do not have the resources, means, knowledge or ability to grow their own food. What about those who are sick, disabled or our old folks? Who is taking care of these people in this day and time . . . . albeit in many cases somewhat unsettling with our current technology and ability.

If we don’t like how it is being done today and how it looks it will be done for many more years then when are we truly going to create that better way that is more acceptable?

Point me in that direction and I will most definitely go at it.


For you sway and avid and others who think I am a paid shill, troll or representative of monsanto and the elite . . . . I would think you would have more faith and confidence in Bill, Paul and the mods . . . I have been on the forum for quite a while and I think they would have figured it out a long time ago if I were this type of person and givin me the boot.

I know I am a lone voice (mostly) on the forum and what I put forth is unsettling and a challenge to the core beliefs of many.

What is happening to me on this thread and others is a smear campaign . . .albeit I do not think it is on a conscious level or on purpose. By Bill, amer zo and many others even hinting that I may be deceived or brainwashed or hypnotized by ‘them’ or that I am a shill or troll or just plain nuts and need lots of counseling and therapy has the effect of completely undermining and discrediting anything I may say.

My question to all of you is why are YOU so defensive? I am one very insignificant voice. Even you Bill said I was doing a great disservice to the alternative community and the forum. I find this a very sad and troubling attitude. Because isn’t it people just like me . . .the whistle blowers . . . the mavericks . . those that say wait a minute things just don’t add up and voice these thoughts that make up this entire forum?

I think and feel strongly that what I am doing, just like when I started asking questions and challenging the dogma in the church, I am making people very uncomfortable and just perhaps may be shaking some core beliefs that many are struggling to desperately hold on to. I am rocking the New Age religion boat.

Do I agree that I could be flat out wrong . . . yep I very well could be . . . but right now where I sit in the middle of the road, neutral as possible and balanced as possible I ain’t feeling wrong.


I have been thinking and researching this for many many years and I plan on sitting with my thoughts for many more years and plugging in current events as they happen to the pattern I have formed to see if it fits and if more of the pieces fall in place.

I ain’t in no hurry and I don’t need to be right. But neither can I just idly sit by and not voice what I feel strongly may be heading our way.

Isn’t this a big part of Avalon Bill? To find our mission to do our part to heal this big blue jewel of a planet?

So hit me with your best shot and just fire away . . . I can take it and still love you all. . . .and I mean that.


PS william r sanford and samwisethebrave you guys are the best and I look forward to exchanging thoughts with you. Thank you very much for the support and thoughts.

[onawah]

Blufire, I suggest that the reason you remain a forum member here may be that deep down, you don't really believe the line you are selling us about how great GMOs are yourself...
Otherwise you would probably just go and hang out with a lot of people who really do think that way.

[gripreaper]

Thanks Dennis for you post yesterday. You really are my long lost brother.

For those who missed this (and many did) I'm adding a link to it.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?32007-Deep-in-Foxfire-Hollow--meanderings-of-a-slightly-crazy-mountain-woman-&p=695470#post695470

[Christine]

But the needs of the many of humanity outweigh the needs of the few of us who are capable of caring for ourselves and those immediately in our care.

If we don’t like how it is being done today and how it looks it will be done for many more years then when are we truly going to create that better way that is more acceptable? Point me in that direction and I will most definitely go at it.

As you pointed out you have been a member of Avalon for years, isn't that the most redundant question you could ask after 58,000 threads of better ways!


What is happening to me on this thread and others is a smear campaign . . .albeit I do not think it is on a conscious level or on purpose. By Bill, amer zo and many others even hinting that I may be deceived or brainwashed or hypnotized by ‘them’ ……

You yourself posed the question, so if the answers don't fit your own self concept then no need to accept them, this is not a smear campaign, conscious or unconscious! You are very astute at turning just about anything anyone says to your favor. But blufire it is so obvious to those who have eyes to see. And yes, I agree with Bill, Amzer Zo, and can sympathize with Sierra, sway, avid and others who are tired of your shenanigans.


Do I agree that I could be flat out wrong . . . yep I very well could be . . . but right now where I sit in the middle of the road, neutral as possible and balanced as possible I ain’t feeling wrong.

I ain’t in no hurry and I don’t need to be right. But neither can I just idly sit by and not voice what I feel strongly may be heading our way.

To find our mission to do our part to heal this big blue jewel of a planet?

Glad to hear that! Wow, I only hope you mean it.


So hit me with your best shot and just fire away . . . I can take it and still love you all. . . .and I mean that.

I hesitate to write one more word to you, my PMs have gone unanswered, previous questions ignored so my very human nature tells me that there is a probable ploy operating here. All the energy that has been funneled to you for months now, this leaves me feeling that you may have a truth to tell but then have not ever answered the critical questions from the hints you are prone to use in such a tantalizing way, always promising to reveal something important for humanity and then withholding.

The questions that remain unanswered by you are:



What is important about the Jesus and Magdalene bloodline?
Who are those you call "the shepherds"?
Your contact as a child, what did you experience?
And finally what is the ELE (extinction level event) that is going to happen?

I would think that in spite of your up bringing, the religious deceptions and the innumerable events of your life that you have valiantly confronted you have proven you are a very strong woman so playing poor misunderstood me doesn't cut it. You yourself claim your strong spirit.

I feel compelled to call you on this, are you honest enough to share what you have held back? Any person of a deep noble heart, who has accepted the purpose of service to other in their life, would feel compelled to share this information if it would truly help preserve life … to not to do so would be untenable to such a person.

Asked of you with respect… and love.

[heretogrow]

Yes bluefire please do share what Christine has asked for. Especially, of importance to me, is the ELE. I have only one reason to beg you for this and that is I wish to save my family, loved ones and as many others who will listen once the news is revealed. This is a wish that is so deeply ingrained in me. It has been a part of my path for years, although it has always been out of reach because I have never been in the circles privy to this information. You can change that. Please do tell...

Much Love,
Julia

[Bill Ryan]

:bump:

I, too, bump these questions.



The questions that remain unanswered by you are:



What is important about the Jesus and Magdalene bloodline?
Who are those you call "the shepherds"?
Your contact as a child, what did you experience?
And finally what is the ELE (extinction level event) that is going to happen?



To put it simply and crudely, please put up -- or just stop talking about this stuff in such an unhelpful way.

Be a scientist. Present the data for peer review.

And be intellectually honest. (Which means if you don't know something, just say so. That's always perfectly fine to do.)

Generalized innuendo is manipulative (knowingly or otherwise) and to spend the last year or more dropping unclear hints, even when specifically questioned, leaves a negative effect and a negative taste in the mouths of many readers.

No-one likes to hear vague inferences from someone else that that person knows more than they do, but are unwilling to share, and are for some reason just playing cat-and-mouse. (You projected that on to me, once, and it wasn't true. Was I being your mirror?)

In this habit of yours, it feels like you are always attempting to control (again, knowingly or otherwise), and this may be why many on this forum who are reading your posts are, as best as I can see, increasingly irritated by you.

Despite the opportunity given to you by your own thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63899-The-New-World-and-Civilization--the-messages-from-my-Contact-as-a-child-) about your experiences and worldview, there are so many good questions left unanswered that many members just raise their eyebrows (or shrug their shoulders) and move on to other threads where, in a confusing world, they at least have clearly explained facts, sequences, correlations and arguments presented for their intelligent consideration.

I do believe that in this (and some other of my recent posts addressed to you) I am echoing and representing the views of quite a number of other members.

[william r sanford72]

while i wait..dont wanna add fuel..or take sides...Gmos play a role like it or not in our food supply and what started out as something good and true..well we know whats going down on that end..it was hijacked and stolen.by the beast..the agenda.ptb..etc..monsanto is so big.so hooked into whats going on around us..our water.our soil.plants insects.us...if bluefire was given the visions i was giving ..then by all rights she must despair..what i saw..was unlike anything i have ever seen or felt..they didnt put me into room to watch a screen..i lived it.the smell.the sounds.all as if i was there.when it was done and i was dropped back to home..carryn there wonderful gift..i froze..in horror.for months every time i closed my eye..and every waking moment the vision consumed me..my sanity..and life..it took a moment of utter despair..so dark..that i was begging for release..for them to take it back..in that moment i felt the heavy of it lift..so light for just a brief moment..and relief..i still carry the visions with me.always will.they are a part of me.but i survived..with my sanity somewhat intact..and hope..light..its still heavy tho..so if bluefire be carrying this around..well..have grace and mercy..it is enough to drive one to seek answers and comfort might even make one a bit..hard..fear is suttle..tricky..leads ones mind and heart in all kinds of directions.everyday i come on avalon and most times now go right to the bee thread..a thread that Bill Ryan and avalon made happen..no i wont talk about the visions..i chose to go the other route...truth always.no fear.william.

[soleil]

bump?:behindsofa:

[ulli]

I just want to say this, without getting too personal.
And kudos to those who can glean useful insights from this ...
We are all 100% unique, to the point of being extra special
Yet each single one of us is also 100% dispensable.

When a person can reconcile this contradiction they can start operating on several levels simultaneously.

Then they can reach a larger faction of people with their message
and they can receive intuition from not only a variety of ET races,
but even from the Source that created those races.

However, I just hope that my awareness of my own uniqueness does not blind me to this fact, namely that
the planet and total reality will always be bigger than little me,
no matter how special I feel, and how many private VIP tours the Creator Source of all universes takes me on
to show me how other galaxies are formed.

[Nickolai]

LOL

Now, it's Blufire is cornered....

Who's next?

[onawah]

I would just like to add that Blufire has a habit of answering questions with questions, an evasive tactic that is often attributed to shills, along with providing much distraction to deflect from the central, communal task of rooting out the truth.
I am not accusing her of being a shill; I think it's more complicated than that, but it's another reason why her motivations are being held as suspect by some here.

[nonesuch]

It's obvious to me that blufire is no shill. She's always prefaced her 'out there' comments with an acknowledgement that what she believes is controversial and will press many people's buttons. There are plenty here who post far weirder things than she's ever shared or intimated without a hint of self awareness or care about how their comments come across to others. At least she warned us and keeps us up to date.

What I see is a lot of buttons pressed and outright attacks or anger footnoted with love and respect but mostly by what appears to me to be primitive group think. Blufire won't back down simply because what she's saying is politically incorrect according the experts here. If she's wrong, she's wrong. Why all the artillery? I think blufire has proven herself as articulate and credible in many many posts that were quite well received until she told us she would share something we'd probably find unpalatable and then did so (at least as far as Monsanto and corporations go).

Bill, when you insist that blufire agree that pure evil rules the day, you DO sort of sound like a fundamentalist preacher who's been crossed by a member of his flock who is his equal in intelligence and experience but who doesn't follow the party line he'd established as a baseline for credibility in his kingdom.

Your comments appear to me to be a misuse or at least a miscalculation of your authority and the implicit power you wield as the big kahuna here. Without researching your history with blufire, I don't have an understanding of why you're acting the way you are. In the current atmosphere, I wouldn't post anything I thought you might disapprove of without a lawyer, a therapist and a flock of animal spirits present to protect me from your Divine Certainty. (They're standing behind me now).

Surely, you've noticed how you automatically garner multiple thanks if you as much as fart in public on the forum, so your power and words, particularly when engaged in an holy intervention, are amplified much more greatly than you seem to be taking responsibility for; unless of course there is an unowned aspect of your intent which IS to inspire blufire to disenroll from the forum.

I have no interest in Monsanto other than to shut it down and send the criminals to prison. But with all the amazingly nutty beliefs that are tolerated on this forum, I'm pretty surprised at the vehemence with which mods and the leader here are going after blufire. What I consider wildly fictional scientology ideas are spread here with great tolerance and enthusiasm. Rabidly anti-gay comments are tolerated or ignored... with a mere slap on the wrist from the mods, if that.

It's frustrating to me that blufire teased us long ago with the mostly undelivered promise of crucial information from her childhood contacts and the revelation of a massively horrid vision of what's coming. Is that pretty much what all the heat is about here?

Regardless, it's seems deliberately insulting to tell an intelligent, insightful and articulate woman that she's been deceived by the 'evil ones' particularly as a basis for countering her ideas...followed by a denial of the similarity in tone and content of that argument to a backwoods preacher from the past!

I would very much like to know how blufire came to believe as she does. Can there be anything to it? I think she's tried to tell us a little in many recent posts, but her ideas are dismissed and yes, shunned, precisely because her explanations are unpopular.

I personally have no doubt Monsanto and corporations crossed the line a long time ago, but I never signed a loyalty pact that prevents me from thinking outside the box of what looks like the truth to me.

Rigidified dogma by any other name smells just as rotten.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

It's obvious to me that blufire is no shill. She's always prefaced her 'out there' comments with an acknowledgement that what she believes is controversial and will press many people's buttons. There are plenty here who post far weirder things than she's ever shared or intimated without a hint of self awareness or care about how their comments come across to others. At least she warned us and keeps us up to date.

What I see is a lot of buttons pressed and outright attacks or anger footnoted with love and respect but mostly by what appears to me to be primitive group think. Blufire won't back down simply because what she's saying is politically incorrect according the experts here. If she's wrong, she's wrong. Why all the artillery? I think blufire has proven herself as articulate and credible in many many posts that were quite well received until she told us she would share something we'd probably find unpalatable and then did so (at least as far as Monsanto and corporations go).

Bill, when you insist that blufire agree that pure evil rules the day, you DO sort of sound like a fundamentalist preacher who's been crossed by a member of his flock who is his equal in intelligence and experience but who doesn't follow the party line he'd established as a baseline for credibility in his kingdom.

Your comments appear to me to be a misuse or at least a miscalculation of your authority and the implicit power you wield as the big kahuna here. Without researching your history with blufire, I don't have an understanding of why you're acting the way you are. In the current atmosphere, I wouldn't post anything I thought you might disapprove of without a lawyer, a therapist and a flock of animal spirits present to protect me from your Divine Certainty. (They're standing behind me now).

Surely, you've noticed how you automatically garner multiple thanks if you as much as fart in public on the forum, so your power and words, particularly when engaged in an holy intervention, are amplified much more greatly than you seem to be taking responsibility for; unless of course there is an unowned aspect of your intent which IS to inspire blufire to disenroll from the forum.

I have no interest in Monsanto other than to shut it down and send the criminals to prison. But with all the amazingly nutty beliefs that are tolerated on this forum, I'm pretty surprised at the vehemence with which mods and the leader here are going after blufire. What I consider wildly fictional scientology ideas are spread here with great tolerance and enthusiasm. Rabidly anti-gay comments are tolerated or ignored... with a mere slap on the wrist from the mods, if that.

It's frustrating to me that blufire teased us long ago with the mostly undelivered promise of crucial information from her childhood contacts and the revelation of a massively horrid vision of what's coming. Is that pretty much what all the heat is about here?

Regardless, it's seems deliberately insulting to tell an intelligent, insightful and articulate woman that she's been deceived by the 'evil ones' particularly as a basis for countering her ideas...followed by a denial of the similarity in tone and content of that argument to a backwoods preacher from the past!

I would very much like to know how blufire came to believe as she does. Can there be anything to it? I think she's tried to tell us a little in many recent posts, but her ideas are dismissed and yes, shunned, precisely because her explanations are unpopular.

I personally have no doubt Monsanto and corporations have crossed the line a long time ago, but I never signed a loyalty pact that prevents me from thinking outside the box of what looks like the truth to me.

Rigidified dogma by any other name smells just as rotten.

Well said. That is pretty much how I feel. Nonesuch, you pretty much perfectly represented my views better than I could have. The whole "publicly admit you are wrong and I am right" type posts leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Perhaps what blufire is hinting is very personal and painful?
Anyway, I am bowing out with these words of wisdom from Kate Bush: (the "we" in the lyrics below are blufire and the rest of us)

If you can't tell your sister,
If you can't tell a priest,
Is it so deep you don't think that you can speak about it?
To anyone,
Can you tell it to your heart?
Can you find it in your heart?

To let go of these feelings
Like a bell to a Southerly wind?
We could be like two strings beating,
Speaking in sympathy...

Kate Bush - Love & Anger

[Christine]

What I see is a lot of buttons pressed and outright attacks or anger footnoted with love and respect but mostly by what appears to me to be primitive group think. Blufire won't back down simply because what she's saying is politically incorrect according the experts here. If she's wrong, she's wrong. Why all the artillery? I think blufire has proven herself as articulate and credible in many many posts that were quite well received until she told us she would share something we'd probably find unpalatable and then did so (at least as far as Monsanto and corporations go).

Bill, when you insist that blufire agree that pure evil rules the day, you DO sort of sound like a fundamentalist preacher who's been crossed by a member of his flock who is his equal in intelligence and experience but who doesn't follow the party line he'd established as a baseline for credibility in his kingdom.

I guess since I stepped into these waters again I will continue to do my best to help clarify a complex situation, complex because it strikes the chords of some of our deepest held truths and an underlying fear of our destruction. As note, it is very obvious that we ALL read into words our own interpretations.

In all the "dialogue" both on forum and in private (mods and admins) I have never heard anyone, Bill or otherwise express a dogma that blufire need to accept anyone else's opinion. While many, if not most, of the forum members disagree with her point of views on Monsanto, "shepherds" to protect us and the reasons for geoengineering, I have experienced in myself and in mediation with the mods nothing but a desire to work with blufire and help her find a safe way to get her story out, not to ridicule her but because Bill and many of us really believe there is merit in hearing what she has to say and could help ALL of us in our endeavor to understand the truth of our perilous situation here on planet earth.


I'm pretty surprised at the vehemence with which mods and the leader here are going after blufire.

No mod is "going after blufire with vehemence". There is however a large body of frustration with her constant evasive and accusative replies to some very direct and heartfelt questions.

As is the case it is impossible for the whole forum to know the amount of care, respect and love (do not chide another's words for they are sincere) that we exercise on a daily basis. I assure you and anyone else who thinks differently, blufire has received not only respect but large amounts of time and energy all directed at helping her reveal her story, not only for the readers benefit but for her own.

The below pretty much nails it…. everything else you wrote is your own subjective opinion which you are entitled to of course, but that doesn't make it true nor does it help bring clarity.


It's frustrating to me that blufire teased us long ago with the mostly undelivered promise of crucial information from her childhood contacts and the revelation of a massively horrid vision of what's coming. Is that pretty much what all the heat is about here?


I would very much like to know how blufire came to believe as she does. Can there be anything to it?

Yes, I would too… the ball remains in her court on that.

Judgement of another's motivations smells pretty rotten too. :)

[Delight]

Conversations have underlying premise. I have had conversations with people who are committed to greening desert by using permaculture, rehabilitating hybridized and GMO seed germ with essential microbes and sea minerals, turning garbage into oil, planting fruit trees everywhere and other visionary potentials.

I have spoken with people who have been prepping for the BIG ONE and the fall of civilization since 1965.

The premise that I discern under Blufire's support for GMO is that disaster will necessitate drastic measures and/or that humanity is so F'd up that only a few will be able to have the life she would prefer. She says she was told this by some blue people. They may have had the best info at the time but it is not present day updated truth. Many beings who used to think they knew what would happen have been changing their minds.

A need to upgrade our premise concerning the state of the galaxy is not just for Blufire but pertinent for all. The whole game has been changing. We have to be the ones to celebrate the change. Otherwise we keep feeling the fear and we cannot be open to the reality in this moment.

An inability to have a conversation based on visions which are not darkened by disaster, crisis and make do is STIFLING. It is not kind and respectful to proclaim "I like THIS beautiful rural lifestyle full of organic produce and messy but free life" but "Y'all need THAT constricted city dwelling with gruels and rules because......" This is not giving as one wishes to receive.

Recently a whistleblower Karen Hudes was interviewed. She was asked about arrest and conviction of political criminals. She said "there is no time" or something to that effect due to a whole earth crisis (the time has expired on that prediction). So, Karen, what about NOW?

Blufire, what about NOW? The experts you met may have been pleasantly happily WRONG.
Everyone, what do we intend now that is what we would have for ourselves?

[Bill Ryan]

Blufire won't back down simply because what she's saying is politically incorrect according the experts here.

Nope, you're wrong. The real problem is that there are some important questions which blufire will not (or cannot) answer. She appears to refuse to do so.

Each time she's asked any of these, she is silent, or talks about something else, or pleads that she's a victim. She is not. (It's possible that you're not up to speed regarding the various places and times that this has happened.) I treat her with respect, but I'm also a tough questioner. You would expect nothing less of me.

I'll say again that I'm steadfast and certain in my personal opinion that there's evil at work here. This is not Avalon's opinion (in some vague, general sense). It's my own. Remember: I'm a member here, as well as a mod. I can express what I wish, as long as I'm courteous, respectful and truthful -- and I am.

And I'm not accusing blufire of being evil, and never have. Please read what I write as carefully as I write it.

I'm stating very clearly that in my opinion she's been duped (very possibly for many years) by unknown beings with an evil agenda, and is inadvertently representing and trying to justify their agenda here. I'm entitled to that personal opinion, and I'll express it, with full explanation if need be.

This is not personal against blufire. As she'll confirm, I've actually supported her far more than most would have done to assist and encourage her to make her full presentation.

It's about what's going on in the world, and what possible future(s) may be in store for us all. (And, in my opinion again, we have a say in that. We're not victims, either.)

These matters are important, when there are so many people on Avalon and elsewhere who earnestly want to know what's happening in the world, and why. I have a personal duty to stand for the truth as best I see it. Others can do that, too. But if they don't like my opinions (and some do not!) -- they're free to leave.

[nonesuch]

Thank you Christine, Delight and Bill for your responses. Christine, I of course can't be aware of the amount of private communications that mods have had with blufire. I've had none, so I can't claim any depth of involvement or time commitment to her personally. My statements were my opinions based on what I've read, plus my intuition (a combo of reading between the lines and projecting my own emotions, at times), experience and common sense.

Delight, I'm certainly not in agreement with 'let them eat GMO cake" while I dine on freshly harvested free range pheasant, but I do know from experience that any physical health issues are more prominently caused by inner beliefs, hard won developed gifts of self healing (and more) than by purely outer influences. I'm pretty sure I can eat GMOs and survive because I've survived much more potent poison than that from the allopathic merchants of death . If there is an urgency for education and we can't stop Monsanto instantly its monstrous tracks, then maybe metaphysics as well as gardening needs to be given a more prominent consideration on the school curriculum. I won't be voting Monsanto executives onto the board, however.

Regarding my comments about mods… When I see more two or more mods approaching any member with what looks like a coordinated script of some sort, sometimes apparently to discredit that Avalon member, it looks like a not too well hidden conspiracy to me. I suppose that can't be avoided when each mod has had his or her own conversations with that member and I presume other mods in private, then goes public with their already pre-digested point of view.

The 'group think' I referred may be generated during deliberations that are mostly out of view from most of us. I suppose after hours of discussion its hard to realize that mentioning even a hint of what was actually agreed on in private when presented in public comes across more strongly as a conspiracy than perhaps intended.

I respond to the unseen and interpret through the seat of my pants, like many here do. I used to distrust my intuition when I saw abuse, to the point of apologizing for what turned out to be my strengths. Now I tend to call it as a I see it, even if the very people I’m addressing don’t see it my way.

When I come across anyone fighting absolute evil, I'm reminded of those who study war in the pursuit of peace. I hope they haven't taken all their research so seriously that they attract or imagine as the greater truth the very thing they were once trying to eliminate. I often take breaks from Avalon because my own negativity is stirred up or amplified by the topics covered here or when I'm frustrated by the importance given to topics that don't move the discussion along (i.e., the recent Obama high school testimonial/hearsay acting thread that mostly reconfirmed already amply supported opinions).

Bill, regarding bluefire, maybe you're right about put up or shut up. That conclusion could have come from spending far too much time negotiating with blufire, when she either doesn't have the goods or won't share what she does have, for whatever reasons. Without going back through numerous threads, I will take your word for it that she's stepped forward to share information then withdrawn her offer more than just a couple times.

In that case, it probably is appropriate that she (you, bluefire, since you’re in the room) drop the subject and come clean with herself that she's not going to pursue those topics here no matter how much she feels compelled to. I have had to do that myself many times in life and it becomes easier with each instance. No one person is solely given the key that will save the world. Our divine nature is something that is shared. If I can't or won't heal it, someone else can and will. I'm not the only channel of good here.

If I've been told by "God" or some cheap imitation that I'm the sole recipient of crucial info I must act on or it won't get done, and worse, if it doesn’t get done then we’ll all die (!!!) then I'm probably being lied to or lying to myself.

[onawah]

I would like to ask Blufire if she has ever, or would ever consider having regression therapy to revisit those contacts she had with ETs to bring them up to the present time for evaluation and examination.
(I think there are people who can do this long distance, so it would not necessarily have to entail travel.)
And I think it is probably a good idea for anyone who has had Contact to be checked for implants--whether physical or energetic.
There are many cases of Contact with E.T.s who appeared to be benevolent but were not, or who, at the very least, had a hidden agenda.
Perhaps a reading with Bill Ryan's psychic friend Carol Clark would be a good place to start...

[gripreaper]

And this post will be cross pollinated in its entirety. It is very relevant to this discussion.




I am offering a different view based on years of observation and research and from my childhood contact. Most of all from what I see happening on a foundational level (globally). I am coming from a very neutral balanced place . . .no fear . . no hate . . . just watching and remembering.


I understand that. Correct me if I am wrong, but your "subjective" childhood experiences are corroborating the need for GMO, chemtrailing, microwaving and terraforming earth because of some cataclysmic "event" which will wipe out the current genome and is therefore necessary to sustain life "after" the event, based on the need for humans and animal and plant species to adapt and survive with radiation and the existing conditions which will be prevalent post apocalypse.

This is somehow benevolent on the part of the controllers to preserve the integrity and the survival of the species and there is NO ALTERNATIVE to this scenario. It is carved in stone so to speak.

Well, the alternative narrative, context and scenario, which is corroborated by history, suggests that a group of off world interlopers descended upon this planet and altered the DNA of the indigenous species for their own nefarious reasons, and are now reaping the results of that manipulation and find it necessary to alter the genome again in order to maintain that agenda.

All of our institutions: government, religious, education, media, finance and corporate production is designed for the benefit of these few psychopathic interlopers at the behest of the 7 billion sentient empathic hybridized beings on planet earth. The current structure of control can be back engineered thousands of years and corroborated by history.

Where you and I disagree, is whether these beings are benevolent or malevolent in their intent. I am leaning towards a nefarious viewpoint based on all of the available evidence. My added subjectivity is not corroborated with alien childhood visitations, but what is available historically and what is available based on what these elite are doing.

What these elite are doing goes against nature and goes against the current genome. This is fact, not a subjective interpretation.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65473-Who-really-is-Barack-Obama-THIS-APPEARS-TO-BE-THE-TRUTH.&p=758810#post758810

[onawah]

I don't want to go too far off topic, but if you haven't taken a look at the thread about Chris Thomas, Gripreaper,
At:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?58865-An-Update-On-Our-Evolution-by-Chris-Thomas
...and the two about Simon Parkes...
65 page members only thread at:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30323-Simon-Parkes-about-Mantis-Aliens-Reptiles-and-other-aliens.&highlight=simon+parkes+interviews

public thread at: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54494-Simon-Parkes----Interviews

...part of the discussions there has been about the Annunaki and whether the clay tablets that Sitchin translated were correct.
Chris Thomas, who says he can read the Akashic Records, says that they are only partly true, and Simon Parkes says they are correct except for the part about how they bio-engineered the human race.
The reason why they lied is apparently because they want us to see them as our Gods so they can take complete control of this planet.
Turiya, who started the thread about Chris Thomas's work, has been posting a lot of his writing, and Herbert has been transcribing a lot of the info from his video interviews.
Simon is answering questions directly from members, and will be giving an interview in December with Avalon Mod, Karelia.
I'm hoping we will get more discussion as to which of the various agendas are originating from the Reptilians, the Greys, the Annunaki, etc.
I hope you will join in if you haven't already. I always find your take on things to be of great interest.
And anyone else who is interested in this subject which has been kicked around Conspiracy sites for so long.
The more the merrier, and who knows, we might finally get some real clarity on the subject.




Gripreaper, are any of your conclusions based on Zecharia Sitchin's work?

Well, Stichen got some of it right, and other things he extrapolated and biased based on his subjectivity. Some have said he was commissioned by the Illuminati, of which he was a member, to interpret the Sumerian stone tablets and cylinder seals. Therefore, his interpretations are subject to additional verification from other sources in order to triangulate a postulate which has a high enough percent probability to be considered as a variable for a more collated and synthesized context.

The postulate which states that beings from other planets and solar systems visited earth and manipulated the genome, used these hybridized creatures to mine gold for themselves which they took off planet, and summarily eliminated all indigenous humans who were not part of their hybrids, while expanding their agendas and their influence across the entire planet, after almost totally destroying earth through a cataclysmic event which they themselves perpetuated, causing them to be stuck here for millennium until they were able to rebuild their technology which they lost...

Well, I think he got that part right. As far as Nibiru and the 3600 year orbit and some of his other postulates, there is no way to know for sure how correct he was or how influenced he was by his connections, commissions, and subjective bias.

[araucaria]

--> gripreaper

Here as always, the controllers are up to no good. Why then do they wish to preserve the integrity of the species? After all, it sounds such a good thing to do.

Because they want to restore us to as we are now after the evolutionary leap predicted by people as serious as Paul LaViolette. Compared with what’s coming, they much prefer us the way we are, and intend to interfere with nature taking its course on this massive cosmic level.

According to LaViolette, the solar system’s current one in 29-34 million year passage through the galactic plane is the reason behind the interstellar dust we are seeing, which will compound the effect of the galactic superwave now due (or overdue), which also drives cosmic debris (including all these comets) into the inner solar system. He refers to Ernst Mayr’s theory of quantum speciation:

Often these evolutionary quantum jumps occur at times when the population of the parent species has become decimated to the point that all that remain are one or more localized populations, a situation termed catastrophic selection. This evidence weighs against Darwin’s theory of natural selection (…) The superwave hypothesis fares much better in accounting for these characteristics of natural evolution. Adaptive radiation, quantum speciation, and catastrophic selection would all follow as natural consequences of a superwave event. (Earth Under Fire p.319)

What I am suggesting is that on an altogether larger than Monsanto scale, the real Operation Roundup is the galaxy weeding out certain species in the manner of a careful gardener or farmer so that others can thrive. The controllers are on the wrong end of this situation: they are the weeds being rounded up. They are seeking to turn themselves into a strain that is resistant to this pesticide, and us into a docile crop they can replant later. Genetic modification on this scale is truly unbelievable, but I gather it has happened (many times) before. However, this time it is not going to work.

We are not necessarily here to ensure our own personal survival (maybe for some), but primarily to prevent this interference and to make sure this event takes place unhindered. We need to act now because with the combination of a superwave combined with a galactic planar position and probably other things as well, it is now or never.

[Eram]

Hi Blufire,

Thank you for starting this thread.
I understand that it took lots of building up steam and courage before you felt comfortable enough to talk about your contacts with E.T.'s and I appreciate that you did it after all.

It seems to me that this thread turned out to be a bit of a minefield if one is set on not hurting other ones feelings, but I would like to add my observation none the less.
Keep in mind that I mean well and I'm trying to talk from the heart as well as from the head.

If I sift through all that is talked about in this thread there is one issue that is not yet addressed properly (unless I missed it) and it seems to me of importance.

The E.T.'s told you of a coming ELE and in order to avoid extinction, we need to prepare in the way that we (humanity, lead by the control mechanisms) are doing.
GMO food, chemtrailing and such.

It takes a huge leap of faith to believe their message without the possession of facts to support this theory, yet you cling to this message and have invested great amounts of energy to live by it.

To be face to face with E.T's would make a huge impression for even the strongest of minds.
I saw a UFO when I was 5 or 6 years old and to this day, this is one of the deepest imprints that I have in my memory, so I can certainly understand why a personal contact with E.T's would make one believe whatever they tell him/her.

Yet the fact remains that you have no hard data to support their message of an upcoming ELE that we need to prepare for in this manner.

For some one who claims to be left brain oriented, this should be an sign of conflict and an opportunity for deeper self reflection, yet you have not shown us that you have actually done that in regards to the validity of their statements.

So, if I were to make a judgment of your story, it would be easy for me to assume that you have had a very powerful experience and the shear force of it's power have lead you to abandon common sense and jump on the wagon of "believe without factual support".


This is what it all boils down to imo and this would explain the gap between many members who posted in this thread and your point of view.

In many threads and in many posts you have shown us that you always take the time to do your own research before you even consider to make assumptions and or conclusions.
In this case, ....I'm not so sure that you have and I would like inform if you would be willing to make this effort.

[onawah]

By acting now to prevent this interference, and to make sure this event takes place unhindered, what exactly do you suggest that we do, Araucaria?



We are not necessarily here to ensure our own personal survival (maybe for some), but primarily to prevent this interference and to make sure this event takes place unhindered. We need to act now because with the combination of a superwave combined with a galactic planar position and probably other things as well, it is now or never.

[araucaria]

By acting now to prevent this interference, and to make sure this event takes place unhindered, what exactly do you suggest that we do, Araucaria?



We are not necessarily here to ensure our own personal survival (maybe for some), but primarily to prevent this interference and to make sure this event takes place unhindered. We need to act now because with the combination of a superwave combined with a galactic planar position and probably other things as well, it is now or never.
Hi Onawah, what do we do? To paraphrase someone, it all depends what you mean by ‘do’ :)
I personally accept criticism of forum as being all talk and no action. To talk is to act. To simply be is to have an effect. To be aware and have intention is to act. This is how we get the leaders we do: we moan about how corrupt politicians are, and if possible they become even worse. Our expectations are somehow met, although the intricacies of who does what to reach that state are doubtless beyond our ken. Apart from that, what you do will all depend on who you are, whatever possibilities are available to you to act with integrity, i.e. with maximum positive intent. I don’t think it really matters what anyone actually does. If you have a floor to mop, then give it 100%.

But since we are on a forum, let me how writing posts can have an effect on the world. Here is something from September 3rd of this year, less than three months ago.



[QUOTE=Bill Ryan;723545][QUOTE=Selene;723494]I’ve just done a ‘website popularity ranking’ search for ProjectAvalon.net on Alexa.com – which ranks websites worldwide by popularity, traffic, time spent on site, education of readers, etc etc.

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/projectavalon.net#trafficstats (http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/projectavalon.net#trafficstats)

Project Avalon currently ranks number 45,911 globally and – even more importantly – 17,346 in the U.S., the largest market. :target::target::target:

We’re also ranked 18,237 in the UK. That’s spectacular for a non-commercial, volunteer forum. Downright amazing.
Given that these figures are constantly evolving, it is interesting to see which way they are going and how fast. Some 18hrs after Selene's post, the rankings are 45658 total, 16716 (US), 18081 (UK)... and off the scale in France :)

That's a climb of 630 places in the US from one day to the next.

If you click the link today, you will see how those figures have changed in this short time: the forum now ranks 35837th in the world, 16032nd in the US. The more people being reached by our message, the more people are available to be doing the seemingly small things that will make a huge difference.

You will also notice an internal change on the forum. In the three years I have been around, it has certainly become a more amenable place for me at least. I have no doubt had a tiny part in that evolution, but it would be self-defeating and counter-productive to overestimate that role, because the power for change lies in numbers: the more likeminded people come together, the greater their leverage. If the forum has changed that much, then so has the outside world. What we are doing is already having an effect.

It’s like pushing a car out of the ditch: when it starts moving, you don’t stop to wonder what to do next, you just carry on increasing the momentum. And if a big guy comes along to give a hand, the introductions wait till later.

[AutumnW]

I just want to say this, without getting too personal.
And kudos to those who can glean useful insights from this ...
We are all 100% unique, to the point of being extra special
Yet each single one of us is also 100% dispensable.

When a person can reconcile this contradiction they can start operating on several levels simultaneously.

Then they can reach a larger faction of people with their message
and they can receive intuition from not only a variety of ET races,
but even from the Source that created those races.

However, I just hope that my awareness of my own uniqueness does not blind me to this fact, namely that
the planet and total reality will always be bigger than little me,
no matter how special I feel, and how many private VIP tours the Creator Source of all universes takes me on
to show me how other galaxies are formed.

Those who are able to integrate the paradox you presented here, are spared the misery of malignant narcissism, while being uplifted. I think we are all tiny units of energy and matter within the body and consciousness of God. How humbling to be so small, on the one hand, but how ennobling to be a part of something so amazingly complex and potentially noble, on the other.

[onawah]

Sounds good to me, Araucaria!
Part of my contribution is certainly being active on this forum, as well as being an online political and environmental activist.
I support my local alternative community, local farmer's market, etc.
For a lot of people, the only actions that count are survivalist oriented, and that is certainly important, but doesn't come from as globally conscious a perspective.
When I was younger, I was part of the "getting back to the land" movement.
Now, as a disabled person in my 60s, I am more limited in my physical action, but I agree, there is still a lot that can be done just by being conscious!
I've been here on Avalon just as long, and it has certainly gone through a lot of ups and downs, but we seem to be in a nice plateau now.
I felt very gratified as an Avalonian when "big guys" Simon Parkes and Karen Hudes joined us!

[araucaria]

Sounds good to me!
Part of my contribution is certainly being active on this forum, as well as being an online political and environmental activist.
I support my local alternative community, local farmer's market, etc.
For a lot of people, the only actions that count are survivalist oriented, and that is certainly important, but doesn't come from as globally conscious a perspective.
When I was younger, I was part of the "getting back to the land" movement.
Now, as a disabled person in my 60s, I am more limited in my physical action, but I agree, there is still a lot that can be done just by being conscious!
I've been here on Avalon just as long, and it has certainly gone through a lot of ups and downs, but we seem to be in a nice plateau now.
I felt very gratified as an Avalonian when "big guys" Simon Parkes and Karen Hudes joined us!
There are other 'big guys' too, Bill said so recently, operating under unassuming pseudos and not saying much. But they will be listening and passing things on, and things will be getting done.

[AutumnW]

Blufire, You've presented the reader with a choice-- "Support Monsanto or point me in the right direction!" There are probably several potential directions that haven't been developed because mega-corporations like Monsanto carry so much clout that they intervene or outspend research that doesn't support their bottom line.

Monsanto, along with corporations like Conagra and Archer Daniel Midlands, provide a lion's share of the funding at the university level. They fund foundations and think tanks that have a direct line to mainstream media.They provide campaign money for politicians. So the, "point me toward the baby, so we can all embrace it", isn't quite appropriate when the baby has been rendered still born.

As well, you seem to be making an attempt to portray yourself as a contrarian, with comments like "I was once like you, before I did a 180 degree turn!" You seem to be an intelligent enough woman to understand that doing a 180 degree turn away from progressive change doesn't make you a contrarian. It places you firmly in mainstream transnational corporation fold.

Monsanto and all large corporations lie to support their bottom lines. They have a vested interest in doing so. To state you are firmly in the middle of the road, between Monsanto and the quaint techniques of simpler times is transparent. This isn't balance and or humility. Balance isn't achieved by finding some perfect midway point between greed and lies and honest endeavor.

...and humility doesn't tease, condescend and manipulate for ten pages. So, tell us about your experiences, so that we can understand your point of view a little better.

[blufire]

Please go to this thread of mine for a response . . . . http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63899-The-New-World-and-Civilization--the-messages-from-my-Contact-as-a-child-&p=762037#post762037

[chocolate]

My dad says I am an anarchist... Because I refused to agree we need that ...... world government in place and because I believe in the native traditions and such. At first I was shocked, never saw that one coming from a man who actually thought me to think differently. Just sharing...

Today in one of my BG inspirational sites I found an information that really caught my attention. It is something Amzer Zo was referring to on page 8 I think of this thread. In short one person was explaining about his astral travels and the astrals he had encountered during his journeys. It sounds really as a combination between scary and exciting.

I totally am able to believe in the possibility of alien minds doing hypno sessions on humans in order to make them do what they need them to do. The way it was described seemed like some sort of kidnapping of the astral bodies. Who knows what I have been subjected to...
Recently I had a situation like that that made me wake up so fast I was still frozen when I entered my body. I shared it on some other threads. But being the well trained grounded "anarchist" I am, I realized it is mostly my own mind doing the game. I killed all opposition when I bought a magnetic matt, or grounding matt, not sure which is the correct word. Now I sleep like a kid.

The article is very long and I am not sure how much patience I can find to start translating it into English. If anyone really wants to read it there it is:
http://www.parallelreality-bg.com/statii/ezoterika/481-2013-11-22-00-00-44.html I guess google translate can be helpful.
If I finish one of the works I am doing tomorrow, will try to do a fast translate and see what comes useful.
It is based on a book, but I never understood the name of that book.
I'll be exploring this in detail for sure.

I sincerely hope whoever is/are in control, to stop all the games with nature. And we all to be careful when we play gods creating or choosing to use robots, mutants and spare parts for human bodies. When I read about this my hair stands on its roots. Me, the anarchist, is more interested in the soul/spirit/nature secrets than in the mechanics of getting all technically savvy. But, anyone is responsible for his own choices and views.

Did i manage to distract you from the fire on blufire ;) ?
You know, sometimes we try to say things that even we don't really know how they would sound like, but we feel compelled to do something. With time it all comes into place.

Peace and harmony!
C.

[nonesuch]

Blufire: I just read almost every post in the thread, "The New World and Civilization," where you requested that all comments about GMOs be moved to this thread. I was surprised at all the hubbub about you withholding information. You provided a sh*tload in the first several posts you made. What I did see was people taking the discussion, and that is what forums are made for, and running with it based on their opinions and interests, before you even began explaining much beyond the headlines. So, despite telling you to pack it in the other day on this thread, I have a few questions that will only keep the discussion going.

Was it your intention to present the need for an equalized balance of the reptilian (technological, unemotional, scientific, proactive, "Star Trek") with the mammalian (creative, artistic, adaptive, "The Lifetime Channel") as an explanation for why we need to accept Monsanto's efforts and GMOs in order for us to 'make it this time?'

It makes sense in the context of your cosmology in which an ELE is expected soon that, culturally, somebody DARE to take massive, even unpopular, technological (reptilian) action and risks, to preserve what will remain of humanity and our heritage of accomplishments against total eradication, if, without that action, we're history—and not recorded history at that!

Did I get that right?


In your view, how does the need for the reptilian/mammalian balance take into account Monsanto's documented legal bullying of farmers, dishonesty with the public and manipulation of laws and government to achieve their ends (whether to save humanity and/or to profit wildly)?

Monsanto's original arguments in favor of GMOs included lower costs, better nutrition and greater yield...none of which have come to pass. That's a problem for me even considering that they might be a necessary evil.

How do you or those who gave you your future vision square Monsanto's apparent greed and unpleasantness with declarations of their ultimate beneficence?

Do you believe we are out of balance as a world in favor of the mammalian, and so Monsanto among others is a symbol of needed reptilian inclusion for balance?

[chocolate]

Okay. So i had the time to read through the first half of the thread carefully. I wanted to understand how can someone evoke such a strong reaction from Bill because he appears in my mind as a very balanced and grounded (in the best meaning of the word) person.

Blufire, I have to say I do understand what you want to create with your thread. I seem to understand this, and I think everyone else does understand it, for it is logical and somehow follows a path we are already on. BUT! I feel you DO need to present some solutions (I am not trying to take sides, but if I were to start something like that I also would have liked to include not only the problem, but also the solution).
You may be surprised that there are many who actually are more like you than you would suspect.

I HAVE A VERY STRONG OPINION on the subject of MONSANTO. THIS IS BAD!!! I do believe and feel technology of some kind will be able to solve what we face as problems, but IN NO TIME LINE WOULD I DEFEND MONSANTO as it stands right now!
I am trying like everyone else just to tell you that we are not opposed technology, but I am against MONSANTO's "technology".

I will better be dead than to imagine a future where I go in steel warehouses called BILLA, KAUFLAND, etc. to buy my fruits and vegetables and when I go out of that amazingly unpleasant space I will end up in a barren land with no tree or a BEE buzzing around.

It will take a lot of time for me to go in every detail of this situation. But I will state the following. This situation is very much like similar situations in every area of life right now.
I do not understand fully agriculture. I have been trained as a technological mind in the area of architecture. In this type of work similar things are happening. If I decide to start a thread against PASSIVE buildings the way they are presented right now I also probably will be shunned out of the community. BUT I KNOW FOR A FACT that the ideology behind the current trend in architecture, in its current presentation, is WRONG. I can present all the pros and cons, and I can present solutions. But right now I am relatively alone in this understanding. In the future perhaps we will be many. So for the moment I can give advise and gentle guidance, but I cannot change the trend. I will wait for the right time when the overall understanding of all similar subjects have risen to the desired level.

I am giving an example from my experience to your thread because the two are interrelated in my world. Everything is interrelated in my world, and it comes from a different understanding of the wholeness of life.

And, blufire, please do not jump into conclusions that the current trend of PA is wrong to follow and that we, who stay more silent than others, are simply flowing with the current.

I, speaking for myself, am trying to see all points of view to be able to understand everything an a more complete way. I may not have started hundreds of threads with controversial opinions because I feel I still am learning. But I DO HAVE A VERY STRONG opinion of most matters, which by the way can change based on the change of my own understanding.

I have written all of this supporting your effort. But please, before you respond in a spike of emotion, try to see the reason behind my words.
I am on your side, I think, just probably my river flows parallel to yours.

Love,
C.

[Delight]

I do not understand fully agriculture. I have been trained as a technological mind in the area of architecture. In this type of work similar things are happening. If I decide to start a thread against PASSIVE buildings the way they are presented right now I also probably will be shunned out of the community. BUT I KNOW FOR A FACT that the ideology behind the current trend in architecture is its current presentation wrong. I can present all the pros and cons, and I can present solutions. Now I am alone, but in the future we might become more. So for the moment I can give advice and gentle guidance, but I cannot change the trend right now. I will wait for the right time when the overall understanding of all similar subjects have risen to the desired level.

I like your's and nonesuch angle as I see it. There is a balance between types of approaches. If we can look beyond the pressure of "the sky is falling" crisis mode and discuss the pros and cons, that would be my joy. Each of us has a vantage of expertise from our work/experience. In the US, I know in the last 58 years, the planning focus has been on short term, often driven by crisis.

I would love to hear C's observation from architecture. I have been studying permaculture, Dan Winter's take on architecture and all kinds of subjects related to structures that support optimum environments. I want to understand what will be the flowering of civilized structure and I know I am not alone.

Input from all the kingdoms (there is more than mammalian and reptilian signatures) will make a great place to live. I am looking forward to a world where we are not driven by the fears that make us take many anti-life actions.

What I have not seen in Monsanto is ANY GOOD except a way to TM and enforce their vision of monoculture. That may be good for THEM. The way they sold it was based on fears from farmers.

If we understood more and more of our own internal and external ecology, how all things work together and had the sensitivity to feel, and trust that we are not threatened with ELE's we'd say "NO THANKS". The key is "IF WE WERE NOT THREATENED". That means we cannot control the future exactly but we could live at peace and contribute as humans in an entirely new way with our gifts.

[onawah]

I just wanted to acknowledge AutumnW's getting to the heart of the matter here and bump this, with a hope that something will come of it.
Blufire, You've presented the reader with a choice-- "Support Monsanto or point me in the right direction!" There are probably several potential directions that haven't been developed because mega-corporations like Monsanto carry so much clout that they intervene or outspend research that doesn't support their bottom line.

Monsanto, along with corporations like Conagra and Archer Daniel Midlands, provide a lion's share of the funding at the university level. They fund foundations and think tanks that have a direct line to mainstream media.They provide campaign money for politicians. So the, "point me toward the baby, so we can all embrace it", isn't quite appropriate when the baby has been rendered still born.

As well, you seem to be making an attempt to portray yourself as a contrarian, with comments like "I was once like you, before I did a 180 degree turn!" You seem to be an intelligent enough woman to understand that doing a 180 degree turn away from progressive change doesn't make you a contrarian. It places you firmly in mainstream transnational corporation fold.

Monsanto and all large corporations lie to support their bottom lines. They have a vested interest in doing so. To state you are firmly in the middle of the road, between Monsanto and the quaint techniques of simpler times is transparent. This isn't balance and or humility. Balance isn't achieved by finding some perfect midway point between greed and lies and honest endeavor.

...and humility doesn't tease, condescend and manipulate for ten pages. So, tell us about your experiences, so that we can understand your point of view a little better.