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View Full Version : Antwerp mayor removes freedom fighters from population register



Violet
14th June 2013, 07:21
http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/regio/antwerpen/130614_DeWever_bevolkingsregister

Quick machine translation. Quite amusing ;):


Weaver wants Syria fighters deleted from population

VRT

Fri 14/06/2013 - 07:16 Dirk Reynaers The Antwerp Mayor Bart De Wever (N-VA), the Antwerp youth who actively fight alongside official in Syria deleted. Therefore they have no official address more and they lose all their social rights, writes Antwerp Gazette.

"The official removal of these people is completely under my jurisdiction," said Weaver in Antwerp Gazette. "It is a long process that has now been launched. On several checks we found that they no longer live in the city."
AP

The Antwerp mayor calls not pull. Young Muslims on this summer to Syria "Let your ears hang radicals. Chances are that you will not return from Syria, because it is hell," he warns in the newspaper.

Weaver estimates the chance anyway small that youngsters still will return. "This Antwerp jihadists know that a court case hanging over their heads. If they stabbing their heads above water again, they picked up", it still sounds.

According to Weaver talking about 22 jihadists who are all connected to Sharia4Belgium. "These are adults who householder and often their wives and children have come over to Syria and may not intend to ever return," says Weaver in the radio news.

"We give the signal that they can not return," said Weaver. "It's way too crazy that people have about social rights and should receive unemployment benefits, for example to finance their fight. It would be mind-boggling that something still could."

The Antwerp Mosque Dome also lose its accreditation. The Dome was founded by converts. Security talk about a breeding ground for radicalization.

----

Okay, I'm going to take a small turn here. Unless these freedom fighters have Belgian citizenship they could - more or less, because the mayor also plans to have them arrested upon return, if - be alright despite removal from the register.

However, over the past few years there have been several discussions and amendments to legislation (http://www.kruispuntmi.be/vreemdelingenrecht/wegwijs.aspx?id=74) relating to the application for Belgian citizenship (please, run another machine translation if you will:ranger:). To go short, it has been made very difficult for the current target group to obtain citizenship since these people do not in great numbers have a high school certificate nor have they in massive numbers relevant work experience amounting to 400 or so days.

Now, this on the one hand sends a clear message: we only want to give citizenship to educated/civilised (see integration course) people that work or have worked in the past. Reminds me a bit of Canada. This is not necessarily bad because it could motivate people to develop themselves and expand their potential.

There's a hidden danger on the other hand, which is illustrated in the above article. If such an immigrant (during the non-Belgian-citizenship-period in which he or she makes (no) effort to develop) commits or falls under the mere suspicion of having committed some crime it should be far easier to remove him or his rights than if he has Belgian citizenship, in which case he should be treated like a Belgian, who are rarely forced to go into exile any more.

And really, to understand this, one must delve into some articles about the justice department and the growing problem of room shortage in prisons. The Belgian state has tried to reach agreements with some of the origin countries of detainees to take back the prisoners but these haven't always proven successful because quite a number of detainees have Belgian citizenship which can't simply be stripped nor can these people therefore just be put out of the country. And this to the government has been a real pain in the :tape: Also, some origin countries do not wish to assume responsibility for somebody who eventually was born, raised and developed into a criminal in another country.

Now we have this new citizenship legislation in place and very probably in the future less immigrants will obtain Belgian citizenship and very probably too this will not stop them from residing in the country as a foreigner. However, these people will always have to be on their guard for falling under suspicion and having everything what they built up taken away from them. I wonder what kind of atmosphere that would be and what could rise from such tensions and fears.

Orobo
14th June 2013, 10:09
Hi,

I am confused, made me logg inn...since half a year or so....

Freedom fighters? Did you consciously choose this title?

I have been away from the Sewer Delta of Europe for one and a half decade now and have been following the changes in the motherland.

One could say they are pawns in a big bad plan.

I thought ( translated to english) Pommes frites-jihadi´s ( belgium) or Cauliflower-jihadi´s (The Netherlands) that I read somewhere, way more appropriate :)

But seriously, more fun than this can´t be poked at this. These are developments that make me stand back in amazement in how fast it seems possible to set in motion stuff we have been reading for the past years.

This belgian muslim prominent promising to get the war to Belgium, and a dutch politician (Islam Democraten) stating that there are no moderate muslims....for example. Next to the riots, murder, robbing, terrorizing of neighbourhoods etc, all by morrocan youth...
And not to forget this new clip on the internet where belgian jihadi´s are cutting the head of this man...

Freedom fighters?

I feel my insides turning and my previous "leftist open muliticultural"-attitude challenged. As a matter of fact, it is not there anymore, and feel myself somewhere in limbo, just observing. Just observing. Uttering a big WTF once in a while....

How are you down there? How do you see the things from whithin?

Love, O.

Violet
14th June 2013, 15:33
Hello Orobo, thanks for bringing this to my attention. I honestly didn't think too much about that term and probably just picked it up with the news, I guess. My attention was going wholly to the dangers of such decisions as taken this morning in the long run.

But shifting my attention to the term and to the info you brought up about local youth...The terms freedom fighters, jihadis and terrorists shift depending on which person is telling their story and since I listen to so many sides of one story I often hear these terms in the same context. One should indeed pay close attention.

I myself don't like to be drawn in to either one side. That's why, for one, I like to listen to different sides of the same story and for two I get weary when partial information is presented to me about subjects or people. For instance I did not like your concluding the list of unflattering events (not made up) by "all by Moroccan youth" because it does great injustice to some wonderful people that I've met in this community as well as in other ethnic and religious minority communities.

You don't have to be (previously) leftist open multicultural to see that there's still a human core inside everyone and that this human being might strive to get the best out of him or doesn't care and let's the worst come out of him (two poles)...Every human, indiscriminate of face, is in this constant battle. I give every human being the chance of proving themselves (if they so wish to). But I too made the mistake earlier in life to make statistical conclusions after numerous observations, only to be surprised by exceptions following that conclusion.

And the sheer occurrence of such exceptions has left me opening my heart again to the world and welcoming the good in humanity and hoping for the victory of good over bad in humanity. And it is only when we stop hoping or believing that we give evil the chance of overruling us. -sorry for my hippie rant -

Moz
14th June 2013, 15:51
Dear Violet,

I could not have been kinder to reply to Orobo.
Usually for me it work wonders to remember what I have done or my family has done, this way I don't judge so much.
So here goes.

Dear Orobo,

I do not know if you are from Belgium or not, but it is irrelevant.
After living in Be for several years I can say that it is a place that is "unfriendly" to people, specially if they are brown, hell even if they are from Poland.

But I never "looked" at Belgians like murderers paratroopers killing women and children in Congo, or testing vaccines of black people for big pharma. Here is a short speech by Che that also mentions the Belgians. I mean even the word apartheid has its roots in the Flemish/dutch language.
JPKzOfwEU5U
Link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPKzOfwEU5U

I don't see Belgians as murderers (even if you father or grandfather) actually chopped up women and children in Congo. I give you a free pass, you are as pure as me and everybody else. I don't see the Germans as a blood thirsty people, even if in the conflict some 50 million people died. So why do you say that people from Morocco are inherently negative, or that Muslims are like this or like that?

To see all sides is hard but not impossible.

Love to both of you.
Moz

Violet
14th June 2013, 16:03
Yes, unfortunately the Poles are the new black sheep. So have you gone back to Poland? I know many Poles only work here temporarily.

Moz
14th June 2013, 16:09
Dear Violet,

I'm from Chile.
I do read the news from Be once in a while.

A big hug,
Moz

Violet
14th June 2013, 16:19
Oh, okay, believe it or not...I knew some people from Chili too. Boy that was interesting, they were all into this Inca-ancestry thing...

Anyway, peaceful sunbeams from Belgium to Chili.

Moz
14th June 2013, 16:29
Thanks and enjoy the summer I understand it been good these last days in Be.

Observer1964
14th June 2013, 18:55
what a depressing thread. It is so easy to loose your tolerance to foreigners when you focus on the radicals and start seeing them as representing the whole ethic group.
But those radicals are a minority, no matter what ethnic group they 'belong' to. The reality is less black and white but a whole lot of grey (also in different gradients).
Today I spoke to a turkish guy who probably was or is muslim, yet we had a great conversation, he although at first very carefully admitted to me that he thought that the pyramids had some kind of alien origin without me even hinting on it that I feel that way also, and we had great time just exchanging our views. To me it is impossible to see the whole group as a block of uniform people, my life-experience is completely the opposite, most ppl want more or less the same despite belonging to an ethnic group, wonder about the same, and question the same.

George Noory from Coast to Coast AM is of Lebanese decent, and I see him as a soul-brother, never thought of him as anything like Arab or muslim or whatsoever, just as George Noory who has similar interrests as me.

Orobo, I really hope u will find your "leftist open muliticultural"-attitude back, I think by stop looking at the radicals (only) you will find that there are more of them that have similar views as you yourself then there are radicals.

I learned that in every culture you will find all kind of people.
I myself enjoy the multicultural situation, I love watching beautiful girls and see a lot of beauties from all cultures in al shades of brown to white. I dont want to hate them, I want to make ..., euh, well u get my point.

Morgan freeman says it simple
I3cGfrExozQ

Some people are just so stupid that they become radicals, but I see it as stupid, shortsighted, xenofobic maybe.
I believe in a 1000 yrs from now we see Earth filled with a brownish colored race that is a mixture of all present races, I hope my next incarnation will be then...